Buffy, who?

March 8, 2011 6:17 PM

If Joss Whedon produced a season of Doctor Who in 1997, the opening credits would probably look something like this... [SLYT]
posted by schmod (60 comments total)

Well that seems unlikely. Why would he reuse the Buffy theme?
posted by Caduceus at 6:19 PM on March 8, 2011 [1 favorite]

Oh god the fandoms are MATING.
posted by The Whelk at 6:21 PM on March 8, 2011 [18 favorites]

People (geeks, nerds, fans) love to combine their obsessions.
posted by pinky at 6:21 PM on March 8, 2011

Slayer Who
posted by The Whelk at 6:23 PM on March 8, 2011

I saw one episode of Buffy. I've seen about 700 episodes of Doctor Who. Yet somehow I feel it's gone a bit Buffy...
posted by juiceCake at 6:23 PM on March 8, 2011 [2 favorites]

I am one of the few people i know who didn't care for the last season, and think River Song is the worst thing to happen to Doctor Who in a long time (she is the definition of a Mary Sue up to now, and looks to continue that trend). I also saw too many things lifted almost exactly from comics, and not in an homage way, and yes, i realize it's a kids show.

That said, this video is cute and funny. Less if he produced it, and more it done like Buffy's OP.
posted by usagizero at 6:23 PM on March 8, 2011 [1 favorite]

for those of us who don't know every opening title for every reincarnation of every British sci-fi show ever
posted by amethysts at 6:24 PM on March 8, 2011

and think River Song is the worst thing to happen to Doctor Who in a long time

I will fight you.
posted by schmod at 6:31 PM on March 8, 2011 [16 favorites]

Man, can you imagine a Whedon-led Dr Who? Every episode:

2:00 minutes: Monster shenanigans
38:00 minutes: The Doctor, whining about being forced to save humanity
2:00 minutes: Monster defeated somehow
posted by DU at 6:34 PM on March 8, 2011 [7 favorites]

Cute. Nice homage to whomever cut the opening credits to Buffy way back in the mid-90's. Get back to me when Nerf Herder covers the Doctor Who theme.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:38 PM on March 8, 2011

Somebody please call Dr. Bishop. Something from Over There has leaked through again.
posted by Servo5678 at 6:43 PM on March 8, 2011 [2 favorites]

I love the 11th Doctor and all things Moffat-y, but yes, River Song is a Mary Sue.

lulululululululu you never took the brake off lulululululululu
posted by Sticherbeast at 6:49 PM on March 8, 2011 [2 favorites]

Last season sucked. Bring back The Satan Pit!, not everything needs to be weeping angels.
posted by Ad hominem at 6:58 PM on March 8, 2011

I liked River Song in Silence in the Library/Forest of the yadayada, but I will only approve of her return once it's revealed she actually kills him and then dances in the blood of his two hearts. (After which, a companion does something A Human Must Never Do and resurrects the Doctor at risk to his/her own life and all respect for plot.)
posted by katillathehun at 6:58 PM on March 8, 2011

Man, can you imagine a Whedon-led Dr Who? Every episode:

2:00 minutes: Monster shenanigans
38:00 minutes: The Doctor, whining about being forced to save humanity
2:00 minutes: Monster defeated somehow
posted by DU at 6:34 PM on March 8

Hmm, did you watch the Russel T. Davies episodes? They were all like that, except the 38:00 minute segment is "Oh no, we are all doomed!"
posted by Vindaloo at 7:05 PM on March 8, 2011 [6 favorites]

The Satan Pit was one of the dumbest Who plots ever. Why don't they just film The Jesus Hill and get it over with?


River Song is a Mary Sue.

For srs.
posted by clarknova at 7:06 PM on March 8, 2011

River Song is a Mary Sue

From Wikipedia
"A Mary Sue (sometimes just Sue), in fanfiction, is a fictional character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as a wish-fulfillment fantasy for the author or reader. Perhaps the single underlying feature of all characters described as "Mary Sues" is that they are too ostentatious for the audience's taste, or that the author seems to favor the character too highly. The author may seem to push how exceptional and wonderful the "Mary Sue" character is on his or her audience, sometimes leading the audience to dislike or even resent the character fairly quickly; such a character could be described as an "author's pet"."

Am I missing something? I don't think that really describes River Song.

And if Joss Whedon ever got his hands on Doctor Who, I would hunt down and kill him. I'm bummed enough that he will be directing The Avengers. STAY AWAY FROM GOOD THINGS.
posted by Saxon Kane at 7:13 PM on March 8, 2011 [2 favorites]

I suppose this video would make sense if all of Joss Whedon's opening credits were just like BTVS. But Dollhouse and Firefly were nothing like this.

As it stands it's just lame.
posted by eyeballkid at 7:32 PM on March 8, 2011

God - that BTVS opening theme is seriously irritating. Instantly turns anything it touches into late 90's posiness. And this is coming from someone who actually likes the show.
posted by helmutdog at 7:36 PM on March 8, 2011

The first thing wrong with this is that Karen Gillan doesn't get top billing, which I am sure that Whedon would insist on if he ever got his hands on Dr Who.

The other thing wrong is that I am commenting on this thread.
posted by AndrewStephens at 7:39 PM on March 8, 2011

Am I missing something? I don't think that really describes River Song.

Hamburger, surely? There might as well be a picture of her next to it. I love Alex Kingston, don't get me wrong. I even liked this character, at first. But she's basically at a point where she drops in to do awesome things and have everybody say, "You're awesome!" and then she says something winkingly cryptic and vanishes in a cloud of fairy dust and mash notes from Steven Moffat. I'm hoping this season won't be so much like that, however.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:48 PM on March 8, 2011 [5 favorites]

I agree that it needs a new soundtrack. I suggest The Timelords (KLF).

There, I fixed it for you.
posted by Muddler at 7:48 PM on March 8, 2011 [7 favorites]

Am I missing something? I don't think that really describes River Song.

She's coy and she's smug and she's always smarter than the Doctor and she's always one step ahead of him. She's able to make the TARDIS work without the "VWORP VWORP," which is a bit like doing Santa Claus without a red suit.

She's not THAT bad, but she's still a Mary Sue.

...

Also, NuWho is already the Whedon-inflected Doctor Who, usually for the better, sometimes not. "Blink" was the NuWho answer to "Hush", but on the other hand, "Love & Monsters" was the NuWho answer to "The Zeppo".
posted by Sticherbeast at 7:54 PM on March 8, 2011

She's coy and she's smug and she's always smarter than the Doctor and she's always one step ahead of him. She's able to make the TARDIS work without the "VWORP VWORP," which is a bit like doing Santa Claus without a red suit.

The entire point of Riversong is that she's someone in front of the Doctor's timeline, someone who knows how things will turn out. She treats the Doctor how he treats the rest of time and space pretty much: knowingly winking as everything turns out as he expected. If we find it grating that Riversong is ahead of the curve, we probably should find the same folly in the Doctor.

Anyway, I like it when the Doctor is not above reproach. Even before the Tenth Doctor, he could do some pretty not cool things to his companions who would shrug it off because, "Hey, if the Doctor is abusing me, there must be a good reason."
posted by Lord Chancellor at 8:05 PM on March 8, 2011 [6 favorites]

And the fact that the Doctor deliberately leaves the brakes on so the TARDIS makes that noise is just like the Doctor giving up fixing the chameleon circuit because he finally got somewhat fond of the 1960's British police box.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 8:07 PM on March 8, 2011 [3 favorites]

I don't mind seeing the Doctor taken down a peg, but I find River's approach to be a bit one note. Loved her with the 10th Doctor when it was fresh, liked her with the 11th Doctor when they sort of stuck with it, although there were bright spots like her throwing a fez. I look forward to more creative twists with her character in the next season.
posted by Sticherbeast at 8:09 PM on March 8, 2011

River Song is not a Mary Sue as much as Amy Pond is a Mary Sue. At least River has a good reason for knowing things, which Amy does not, yet Amy is continually saving the day anyway using bits of knowledge she should not have. I love River, though she got a little bit wrecked in the stupid Angels episode, where the Angels also got wrecked.

The video, I thought, was nicely done, and made me remember how sad it makes me that fewer and fewer shows even bother to have these title sequences anymore.
posted by OolooKitty at 8:15 PM on March 8, 2011

I had literally no idea that anyone in the world could possibly not adore River until I came to MetaFilter. Y'all are bumming me out :(
posted by you're a kitty! at 8:22 PM on March 8, 2011 [3 favorites]

A little closer to on topic --

God - that BTVS opening theme is seriously irritating.

Personally, I like the jaunty little Buffy theme; what I can't stand is the Angel theme. Even for a show that could be melodramatic and overblown, that is some shit that is melodramatic and overblown, and more pretentious than a city block of late '90s goth clubs. It is so. horrible. that even the first notes will set my teeth on edge. It makes the Firefly theme seem...not so bad.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:30 PM on March 8, 2011 [2 favorites]

I started watching through Buffy this past year. I went from hating the overly-campy credit sequences to actually kind of enjoying them. It's difficult to articulate why exactly Buffy works so well in spite of itself, but I suspect that the credit sequence is just like the rest of the show -- bewildering and awful at first; and then endearing and perfect once you've sunk your teeth in a little further.

That all said, I will say that Joss's credits have improved over time. Although I'll buy that Firefly's opening sequence is now iconic, it still has a bit of a 'WTF?' element to it. On the other hand, Dollhouse's credits were phenomenal (but then again, I feel like I was one of the only people who actually enjoyed Dollhouse, so caveat emptor).
posted by schmod at 8:39 PM on March 8, 2011 [1 favorite]

And the fact that the Doctor deliberately leaves the brakes on so the TARDIS makes that noise is just like the Doctor giving up fixing the chameleon circuit because he finally got somewhat fond of the 1960's British police box.

Know what? I'm going to regard that quip as being a stupid joke, and non-canon. Every now and then writers fuck up, which is especially easy to do in SF (remember the glowing spine in BSG?)
posted by schmod at 8:41 PM on March 8, 2011 [1 favorite]

On the other hand, Dollhouse's credits were phenomenal (but then again, I feel like I was one of the only people who actually enjoyed Dollhouse, so caveat emptor).

I liked Dollhouse, but it was the Sylvie and Bruno to the Alice in Wonderland of Buffy, the Through the Looking-Glass of Angel, and the Hunting of the Snark of Firefly.
posted by Sticherbeast at 8:43 PM on March 8, 2011

-- Somebody please call Dr. Bishop. Something from Over There has leaked through again.

You mean Defense Secretary Bishop, of course.
posted by jabberjaw at 8:45 PM on March 8, 2011 [3 favorites]

If we find it grating that Riversong is ahead of the curve, we probably should find the same folly in the Doctor.

Exactly. Almost every example I see quoted about River being so annoying / a Mary Sue / the ruination of everything is something that's a characteristic trait of the Doctor's.

I'm reminded of the viewers who complained about the female first officer in the first pilot of Star Trek. She behaved like a second command, and the response was "who does she think she is, behaving like that?"
posted by Karmakaze at 8:52 PM on March 8, 2011

I'm reminded of the viewers who complained about the female first officer in the first pilot of Star Trek. She behaved like a second command, and the response was "who does she think she is, behaving like that?"

Eh, I don't think so. The American Who fanbase, in any event (the UK fanbase is much broader, and probably includes a lot more not so cool people just through sheer numbers), is pretty coed and not so much like this, in my experience. I think it's more that we're able to enjoy these traits in the Doctor because we have a broader perspective on him -- we know he fucks up all the time, and isn't really the know-it-all pain in the ass he seems to be to people who have just met him. But we don't get the same sense of vulnerability/fallibility from River. She's too mysterious to us for that. Obviously, her mysteriousness is by design, but that's going to have to turn into a better understanding of her before long, lest she turn into Poochie.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:59 PM on March 8, 2011 [3 favorites]

Vaguely related: Female Character Flowchart. I'm amused by this in that I don't think River Song is really on here, flowchartwise, so there's that for originality.

River Song is one of those characters where we'll either like her more or less, the more we get to know her. Right now, her primary character is as "ass-kicking, mysterious maybe-wife, maybe-killer of the Doctor", which is a good start, but we need more. The main thing that makes her Mary Sue-ish is her constant one-upmanship of the doctor combined with a relative lack of a sense of humor about herself and a lack of flaws.

Part of what makes the Doctor awesome is that he has myriad flaws and can be made fun of in innumerable ways. Hell, he's actually sort of despicable sometimes. Similarly, part of what made, say, Donna such an awesome Companion was that she surfed the universe and didn't give a fuck, but she also had enough limitations to keep her relatable.
posted by Sticherbeast at 9:11 PM on March 8, 2011 [3 favorites]

I don't adore River Song. I don't adore Russel T. Davies. I don't adore that old guy who was the dad of Donna. Simms as Sam Tyler was fabulous, but he couldn't save RTD's stink of a Master. This has nothing to do with their sex.

I want to adore the new Who and will give Moffat another season to pull it from the RTD mediocrity pit. But that pit, to be fair to Moffat, is bottomless (and well, being an RTD thing, it'd have to be wouldn't, in fact, it'd have to be even more than bottomless, like bottomlessly bottomless x a thousand billion x a billion trillion) so getting out of it may be impossible. This was not the bottom Spinal Tap sung about.

Thank god for Archer and the Venture Brothers.
posted by juiceCake at 9:26 PM on March 8, 2011

The author seems to favor the character too highly.

Sadly, this seems to describe River Song pretty accurately. The following summarizes my feelings on her succinctly:

I don't adore River Song.

Moffat doesn't seem to have contributed much new to the series universe-wise. He's reinvented the core group pretty well, but River Song and the crack seems to be the extent of his contributions at this point. He's a talented writer, but he seems too burdened by RTD's work. Perhaps it's because he's working on Sherlock, or perhaps Who just has too much mythology at this point. For whatever reason, I don't think he's performing up to his potential but I hold out hope.

I want to see something new added to the Whoverse, and I don't want it to be ominous hand waving about a crack that appears in every single episode. Give me something new, and make it fun. Please and thank you.
posted by willhopkins at 9:35 PM on March 8, 2011 [1 favorite]

God - that BTVS opening theme is seriously irritating.

This could be an age thing cause I was JUST the right age to have back to back buffy episodes RIGHT AFTER SCHOOL.

So I hear the Buffy theme a part of my lizard brain goes O SHIT WE'RE GONNA HAVE AN ADVENTURE
posted by The Whelk at 9:38 PM on March 8, 2011 [7 favorites]

It makes the Firefly theme seem...not so bad.

Are you implying the Firefly theme is anything less than perfect and awesome? Swords at dawn! ("Use of a s-what?")

I love Matt Smith. Eccleston was brilliant. Tennant, like RTD, was at times glorious, at times maddeningly awful.

(Back to Firefly, I totally feel for this guy.)
posted by kmz at 9:39 PM on March 8, 2011

And oh, the Buffy theme is pretty good, but probably my least favorite Whedon theme. I love cello music (why yes, I do like Rasputina) so the Angel theme is pretty great to me too.
posted by kmz at 9:45 PM on March 8, 2011

I hear the Buffy theme, and my lizard brain goes "It's finally Tuesday, yaaay!", just like my response to Doctor Who is an instinctive squee and riveting of my eyeballs to the tv.

This was like getting my peanut butter mixed up with my chocolate - and it's just as awesome as a peanut butter cup.

That said, it's pretty great with the KLF theme too.
posted by jb at 10:10 PM on March 8, 2011 [1 favorite]

Did I just see Doctor Who head butt someone? My my. William Hartnell it ain't, I guess. Don't try that stunt on a Dalek, though. You'll hurt yourself.
posted by Decani at 3:54 AM on March 9, 2011

Isn't it pretty obvious that River Song isn't as good as she pretends to be? That there's something sinister about her? I mean, that's the whole point of her appearing to be so awesome and wonderful -- there's something not quite right behind it.
posted by Saxon Kane at 4:45 AM on March 9, 2011 [1 favorite]

I thought it was established early on that River Song, despite being connected with the Doctor in some odd ways, was a con artist and convicted criminal.

Or am I imagining that? I'm pretty sure I didn't dream that up during a fever or something...
posted by hippybear at 6:05 AM on March 9, 2011 [1 favorite]

[singsong] I know someone who's getting every Rasputina album ever for Christmas this year!
posted by bitter-girl.com at 6:45 AM on March 9, 2011 [1 favorite]

hey look it's two things I recognize in the same place
posted by Legomancer at 7:00 AM on March 9, 2011

Sticherbeast: "She's able to make the TARDIS work without the "VWORP VWORP," which is a bit like doing Santa Claus without a red suit."

Maybe she read the manual on the Type 40 and knows to turn on the multi-loop stabilizer.

Oh, and also, I really miss having Gallifrey and other Timelords around.
"The Doctor: What are you reading?
Romana: Oh, just familiarizing myself with the technical details of this capsule.
The Doctor: “Capsule”? What kind of word is that? If you mean “TARDIS,” why don’t you say “TARDIS”?
Romana: The Type 40 capsule wasn’t on the main syllabus, you see.
The Doctor: Yes, I don’t know what the Academy’s coming to these days.
Romana: Veteran and Vintage Vehicle wasn’t on the syllabus. I preferred something more interesting.
The Doctor: Really, like what?
Romana: The life cycle of the Gallifreyan Flutterwing.
The Doctor: Now you’re being frivolous.
Romana: I wouldn’t dream of it."
posted by charred husk at 7:03 AM on March 9, 2011

So I hear the Buffy theme a part of my lizard brain goes O SHIT WE'RE GONNA HAVE AN ADVENTURE

I hear the Buffy theme, and my lizard brain goes "It's finally Tuesday, yaaay!"

I hear the Buffy theme and my lizard brain reaches for the >l button on the remote. The benefits of having watched the entire series on DVD.
posted by Think_Long at 7:46 AM on March 9, 2011 [1 favorite]

Oh, and also, I really miss having Gallifrey and other Timelords around.

I heard a rumour that the Rani might turn up.
posted by Karmakaze at 7:47 AM on March 9, 2011

I don't really disagree with River Song being a bit of a Mary Sue, but I love her anyway. I don't mind her smugness and I like that she seems to destabilise the Doctor a bit. If she was in every episode, I'm sure she would start to grate, but for now I adore her. Also, it's still not so common to see a middle-aged woman in a role like this: a sexy, confident adventurer (with a dark, mysterious past).
posted by severiina at 8:17 AM on March 9, 2011 [3 favorites]

So does Mary Sue now mean "character I don't like" the same way deus ex machina means "ending I don't like"; there's something about Doctor Who fan commentary that seems to cause people to regenerate new definitions for words.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 8:20 AM on March 9, 2011

POSSIBLE SPOILERS:

Gurer jnf gnyx bs oevatvat gur Enav onpx; vg jnf erirnyrq qhevat gur 7gu naq 8gu Qbpgbef' nqiragherf gung fur jnf na byq fjrrgurneg bs uvf onpx va gur Npnqrzl.

Tvira gung fur jrag fb sne nf gb vzcrefbangr bar bs gur Qbpgbe'f pbzcnavbaf (Zry) va bar rcvfbqr, naq bjarq n sne zber nqinaprq zbqry GNEQVF guna nal cerivbhfyl frra va gur frevrf, vg'f cbffvoyr gung Evire Fbat pbhyq or ure, be rira gur Zlfgrevbhf Jbzna jub cvpxrq hc gur Znfgre'f evat...be obgu.

I swear, watching NuWho is almost like watching the WB.
posted by Smart Dalek at 9:41 AM on March 9, 2011

Oh, yeah, something else: Anyone else notice -

"Gur Fbhaq bs Qehzf"/Evire Fbat/ Qehzf nybat gur Evire?
posted by Smart Dalek at 9:48 AM on March 9, 2011

Oh, come on, fhqwhgads.
posted by grubi at 9:55 AM on March 9, 2011

Smart Dalek: "POSSIBLE SPOILERS: "

Yeah, I was thinking that myself.

Also:
V unq bevtvanyyl ubcrq gung gurl jbhyq cvpx Ebznan hc sebz R-fcnpr ohg V thrff fur erghearq va gur nhqvb fgbevrf nf Cerfvqrag bs Tnyvserl. Qba'g xabj vs gurl'yy ubabe gung be abg.
posted by charred husk at 10:25 AM on March 9, 2011

I'd be more than fine with River Song being the Rani.

Ohg lbh xabj jung jbhyq or rira orggre fynfu jbefr fynfu zber uvynevbhf? Vs Evire Fbat, abg gur Qbpgbe, jnf gur svefg gb syvc traqref nf fur ertrarengrq. Gung'f evtug - fur'f abg gur Enav - fur'f gur Znfgre, sebz fbzrjurer orgjrra gur GI Zbivr naq Qe. Lnan.
posted by Sticherbeast at 12:19 PM on March 9, 2011

Because this is the closest thing to an open firefly thread, I must post this here: She Don't Like Firefly
posted by flaterik at 4:44 PM on March 9, 2011 [1 favorite]

I don't know if my marriage could have survived if my husband didn't like Firefly.

That said, I had some moments of anxiety that he might not like Farscape - A lot of people have trouble getting past the uneven first season (even though by the third season it had become the most emotionally affecting SF TV I've ever seen -- amongst the most powerful of any tv series).
posted by jb at 10:27 PM on March 9, 2011 [1 favorite]

In bizarrely-related news, Alan Tudyk has been cast in Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter.
posted by schmod at 7:01 PM on March 17, 2011