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Dear Woman
April 7, 2011 9:06 AM   Subscribe

Dear Woman, we stand before you today as men committed to becoming more conscious in every way.
posted by Avenger50 (197 comments total) 5 users marked this as a favorite

 
The website is very thin. Here is a manifesto on facebook.

I kind of dislike this whole "masculine/feminine" energy thing. I mean, it's a step in the right direction, but shit like this:
I honor your deep connection to the earth. As men, our relationship to our planet and its resources has often been motivated by competition, acquisition and domination.
Not helpful. Women, as a class, do not have a "deeper connection" to the earth than men do. We're both animals, more alike than different.
posted by muddgirl at 9:14 AM on April 7, 2011 [78 favorites]


A growing sense of worship of the gifts of the feminine? Seriously?

This video is playing like some kind of bad self-help tape I might have bought in Sedona, AZ 15 years ago.

I mean, I get the concept behind what they're trying to do, but I really hate the way it's being presented.

That plus one of the most useless websites ever. A sign-up box? That's it? It's a shame that the page is labeled "manifesto", because I don't see anything like that there at all.

Protip: want me to be interested in your cause? Don't make me give you my email address before I get to see anything other than a letter telling me what wondrous things you have to offer.
posted by hippybear at 9:14 AM on April 7, 2011 [3 favorites]


Somehow I don't think gender balance is going to be reached by "worshiping the gifts of the feminine". This is like some weird new agey Promise Keepers or something.
posted by Burhanistan at 9:15 AM on April 7, 2011 [5 favorites]


Calling a group "unconscious" isn't so great on the "don't unhumanize your enemy" front.
posted by DU at 9:16 AM on April 7, 2011


A growing sense of worship of the gifts of the feminine?

Oh, you mean a fetish.
posted by Wolfdog at 9:17 AM on April 7, 2011 [9 favorites]


That made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up, and not in a good way. Eeew.
posted by TAP at 9:17 AM on April 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


Yeah, weird bordering into creepy.
posted by Forktine at 9:18 AM on April 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


Probably just trying to get some.
posted by The Thnikkaman at 9:18 AM on April 7, 2011 [7 favorites]


So a bunch of strait guys apologize to women, all women, on behalf of all hetero-normative guys for subjugating and othering women by imposing their commitment to "worshiping" them while simultaneously defining them as fundamentally different?

While this doesn't seem mean spirited in any way to me, it does seem counterproductive and absurd.
posted by Blasdelb at 9:18 AM on April 7, 2011 [12 favorites]


You can get a little more from Gay and Arjuna at translucentdialogs, it seems. Although christ alone knows why you would want to. I wonder what they'd make of 'Mx is my prefix'?
posted by robself at 9:19 AM on April 7, 2011


We worship women here, so if you're a woman, we welcome you to join these lively discussions. We promise to provide pedestals to fit all shapes and sizes that you may rest upon in comfort to display your feminine energy's connection and holistic consciousness to be admired and worshipped by our worshipful adoring gaze. If you fidget on your pedestal or seek to step down, we will respond with intense passive-aggression with insincere self-abasement, simultaneously and in turn. Please stay, O Great Feminine Energy Mistress. Yes, yes, hit me harder. We've been bad, bad boys! Harder! Harder! [Some further extrapolation. --ed.]
posted by Drastic at 9:19 AM on April 7, 2011 [49 favorites]


They are so conscious of the masculine and feminine energies within each of us that they have a mandatory gender field on their website sign-up with only two options?
posted by cheerwine at 9:19 AM on April 7, 2011 [7 favorites]


There is something pornographic about this.

It's like soul porn or something.

I mean the intent worthy, but the way it's being done with these testimonials is creepy and freaking weirding me out.
posted by Skygazer at 9:20 AM on April 7, 2011 [9 favorites]


Is there even any content on the site? Why is this a post?
posted by Wolfdog at 9:20 AM on April 7, 2011


Corn will also be served.
posted by Ratio at 9:21 AM on April 7, 2011 [10 favorites]


Related.
posted by Sticherbeast at 9:21 AM on April 7, 2011 [3 favorites]


Dear Woman,

I like you. You are nice. You smell good on the bus and I like the way your lipstick stains your coffee cup in the morning. I have been collecting the cups you throw away every morning. I have built a sculpture of you out of the cups. You will like it when you come to live with me.

Love,
Man
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:21 AM on April 7, 2011 [140 favorites]


I'm reminded of the Bloom County strip where Steve Dallas exclaims "I care for you, hot mama!"
posted by Burhanistan at 9:21 AM on April 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


My intuitive, feeling, sacred femininity blames The Da Vinci Code for this shit.
posted by Catseye at 9:22 AM on April 7, 2011


I was sure this is either deep satire or a cult. It's probably a cult, right? They all have a certain glassy-eyed look and Scientologist's way of speaking.
posted by naju at 9:22 AM on April 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


I'm a man. I can change. If I have to. I guess.
posted by Curious Artificer at 9:22 AM on April 7, 2011 [5 favorites]


I like how women are "woman" but men are still men, and not "man".
posted by amethysts at 9:22 AM on April 7, 2011 [5 favorites]


'Mx is my prefix'

Mine too:
M-x fill-paragraph
M-x write-file
M-x tabify
etc
posted by DU at 9:22 AM on April 7, 2011 [14 favorites]


As a man who worships the gift of the feminine just fine already, I can honestly say that I think they are unclear on the nature of the problem, which makes us all so very close to the earth.
posted by fourcheesemac at 9:24 AM on April 7, 2011


‘Conscious Men’ apologize to women for many years of bad behaviour
posted by Burhanistan at 9:24 AM on April 7, 2011


I'm not a violent man.

But I sorta want to beat these guys up.
posted by Skygazer at 9:25 AM on April 7, 2011 [13 favorites]


""We worship women" sounds like something Buffalo Bill would have said if he had a PR agent. My guess is that they're sickos who seem really earnest at first but it turns out that they're actually trying to collect used tampons for onanistic purposes or something.
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:25 AM on April 7, 2011


Here's Jezebel's response.
posted by Burhanistan at 9:25 AM on April 7, 2011


Worship! Oh, yes indeedy. Come hither, fall at my feet and swoon. Oh, and bring that bag of Reeces miniatures with you.
posted by likeso at 9:27 AM on April 7, 2011 [5 favorites]


Oh, and bring that bag of Reeces miniatures with you.

I'm honestly a bit surprised that there wasn't something like "I honor your love of chocolate. For too long men have worshipped at the altar of grilled meat, without recognizing the beneficial anti-oxidants and mood-altering properties of the cocoa bean. I honor your attraction to romantic comedies, for men tend to feed their minds with violent action sequences and CGI..." and so on
posted by muddgirl at 9:32 AM on April 7, 2011 [22 favorites]


LOL!
posted by likeso at 9:33 AM on April 7, 2011


Y'all want to make it up to us? There's a whole mess of anti-woman legislature in the US that really ought to be stopped. Get moving, Conscious Men. I expect weekly reports.

Also, if you'd be so kind as to do all the menstruating from now on, that'd be spiffy.
posted by cmyk at 9:34 AM on April 7, 2011 [33 favorites]


""We worship women" sounds like something Buffalo Bill would have said if he had a PR agent.

Or like something Charlie Sheen has been spouting for a while now.
posted by hippybear at 9:36 AM on April 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


Is this basically a couple of guys saying, "OK fine I will go down on you"?
posted by Mister_A at 9:38 AM on April 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


Dear Woman, we stand before you today as men committed to becoming more conscious in every way.

Um, shouldn't you be kneeing, with outstretched tongue?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:38 AM on April 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


Wow. Gender stereotypes ahoy. It's like an insipid bastardization of feminism, combined with the usual new age bullshit about gender energies, where all women are wise, non-violent, nurturing Earth Mother Healers and all men are good for is scratchin', pillagin', rapin' and warrin'. Thanks, but no thanks.

There's a great deal of actual gender imbalance, inequality and injustice in our culture and others. This video won't solve it. Nor will pigeonholing women and men into strictly defined, meaningless gender roles. Stop apologizing on behalf of the rest of us and go do something constructive, guys. Get into politics. Help lobby and push for legislation that actually matters to womens' rights. Be the change you want to see in the world.
posted by zarq at 9:39 AM on April 7, 2011 [3 favorites]


Double cunnilingus comments all the way!
posted by Burhanistan at 9:39 AM on April 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


I've met guys like this, from time to time, and I always, in my heart-of-bitter-hearts, hope that they're just a new kind of predator, because the alternative... this, essentially, is too unsettling to bear.

As I looked into their vapid, earnest eyes, I wished them the best, and knew that there were some people who thought that this is how it should be. Then I'd shudder, delicately- and produce a manly loogie, as some sort of tribal ward.
posted by LD Feral at 9:40 AM on April 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


Also, if you'd be so kind as to do all the menstruating from now on, that'd be spiffy.

That might be difficult - how about we just have good attitudes toward menstruation?
posted by ripley_ at 9:40 AM on April 7, 2011 [6 favorites]


I've also met a few men who routinely use the kind of language the ones in that video were using. Age-wise, most of them are in their late 50s or 60s now, having grown up during second-wave feminism. And while their hearts seem to be mostly in the right place, there's still this huge underlying tendency to stereotype and deify women that really skews whatever good they're trying to achieve. Whereas kids right now really seem to have much less trouble with the notion that men and women are basically just categories, and that people should be judged as individuals. So I was surprised that there seemed to be so many younger men in that video.
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 9:41 AM on April 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


Also, if you'd be so kind as to do all the menstruating from now on, that'd be spiffy.

I will nuke from orbit any planet that invents technology to effect this transfer.
posted by DU at 9:42 AM on April 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


You know, there are a few things I don't agree with about this video, mostly the use of metaphysical language and the notion that women and men are inherently different in ways I don't believe to be true (logic vs. earth awareness? Huh?), but I want to stick up for it a little. The men in this video seem honest and are committed to change. They are doing something. If you are someone who is inclined to mock this video, it may be helpful to ask yourself this question: What have I done to change the way that women the world over are often treated by men? The answer is probably not much. While somewhat misguided, these guys are at least willing to publicly take a stand against the oppression of women and I find that to be admirable.

Some final thoughts...I think when they are talking about 'the unconscious masculine', maybe what they are trying to shoot for (but missing) is closer to male privilege? Also, though an apology for the actions of their gender is odd, at least someone is apologizing. The rapists, genital mutilators, third world pimps, etc. certainly aren't. I think the most productive thing to do would not be to laugh at this, dismiss it, and then move on, but rather to take to good parts and move forward. In a time when reproductive rights are backsliding, I found this video to be refreshing. For concrete and productive information about these issues, I recommend this.
posted by delicate_dahlias at 9:46 AM on April 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


Do you automatically get a ponytail if you sign up?
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 9:48 AM on April 7, 2011 [3 favorites]


It's like soul porn or something.
posted by Skygazer at 10:20 AM on April 7


Soul porn. You nailed it.

Um, I mean, "you described it perfectly."
posted by andreaazure at 9:48 AM on April 7, 2011


We've all seen this road before. It ends with crocodile tears, drum circles and incoherent metaphors about fathers and dicks.

Can we just take it as read and let it drop?
posted by bonehead at 9:50 AM on April 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


This is hilarious. "Dear WOMAN"....have to say that the first thing I thought of was Animal. Maybe this could be redone with Muppets!
posted by medeine at 9:51 AM on April 7, 2011 [5 favorites]


Presumably Sam the Eagle, Gonzo and Animal.
posted by bonehead at 9:53 AM on April 7, 2011 [3 favorites]


Ugh. I can't even watch this. I don't always agree with Jezebel, but their assessment—that these guys are creeps—seems spot-on to me.

Guys, if you want to get on board with feminism, here are some tips. (I'm no expert. But I think these are safe bets.)

Don't twist it around and make it all about yourself—"look at me; I'm so progressive; I'm more enlightened than those other guys!".

Don't imagine that gender stereotypes are any more valid or enlightened just because you're praising the stereotype instead of disparaging it. It's still a stereotype—"woman are compassionate and spiritual and in touch with the earth" is no different than "black guys have massive dicks and are great at basketball". No. People are individuals.

Don't apologize on behalf of your gender, because that only makes sense if you see the genders as two separate groups, rather than a single group—humanity—composed of individuals who happen to have different genders. At any rate, I don't recall appointing you as my representative.

Don't put women on a pedestal and "worship" them, because that's creepy as hell (and if you don't understand why, you're not ready to appoint yourself as a vanguard of gender relations).

That is all.
posted by ixohoxi at 10:01 AM on April 7, 2011 [22 favorites]


I feel the need to offer up this song right about now.
posted by cmyk at 10:01 AM on April 7, 2011


I appreciate the use of active voice: Men have raped you, abused you, sold your bodies as commerce. Instead of the too frequent: Women are raped and abused and sold. I give them all sorts of kudos for that alone.
posted by psylosyren at 10:02 AM on April 7, 2011 [4 favorites]


Dear Women,

You left the toilet seat down. Again.

Best,
Men
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:04 AM on April 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


This will not get women into bed, like its proponents think.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:10 AM on April 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


Dear Men,

We have to sit when using the restroom, whether doing one or the other. You, on the other hand, must stand at least half of the time, unless you choose to sit for both, which you have that option. Either way, sitting occurs more than standing. Put the damn seat down so we don't fall into the cold toilet water in the middle of the night.

Best,
Women
posted by Malice at 10:10 AM on April 7, 2011 [4 favorites]


I saw a sketch about this ages ago. I think it was SNL and the man was played by Alec Baldwin. And yes, he was trying to get some. The only line I remember is when he suggested to the woman that they should read aloud to each other from "Our Bodies, Ourselves".
posted by George_Spiggott at 10:13 AM on April 7, 2011


I think we're all just getting trolled.
posted by QuarterlyProphet at 10:13 AM on April 7, 2011


Don't put women on a pedestal and "worship" them, because that's creepy as hell

This old Montrealer has some words for you.
posted by bonehead at 10:13 AM on April 7, 2011


We worship women here, so if you're a woman, we welcome you to join these lively discussions.

This is just one small step from Smoove B.
posted by HumanComplex at 10:14 AM on April 7, 2011 [8 favorites]


This will not get women into bed, like its proponents think.

I bet it will.
posted by Burhanistan at 10:14 AM on April 7, 2011


Thanks for this, I haven't giggled so hard in a while. It's a treasure of gags!

Are you sure this is not a parody? I cannot tell you what I thought this was a parody of... ewww indeed.

I honor your deep connection to the earth.

When it got to this, for some reason of temporary hilarity-induced insanity I was reminded of a silly facebook page on Bear Grylls, 'the man who can find proteins everywhere', worms included... I pictured him taking part in this video, saying THIS very sentence, while eating a worm off the ground, and I nearly died.

-sorry, the giggly feminine in me is taking over, I'll go do some algebra and nuclear physics now to redress the balance
posted by bitteschoen at 10:14 AM on April 7, 2011 [3 favorites]


Dear Woman,

Men do not sit to pee. It's in our genetics or sumpin'. We don't like pee-seat either so usually we put it up, but it sure is a pain to put it back down. Look before you sit.

Regards,
Men
posted by P.o.B. at 10:14 AM on April 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


It's like soul porn or something.

Cough.
"We can create great miracles with each other."

Cough.

:awkward shuffling:
posted by entropone at 10:15 AM on April 7, 2011


This old Montrealer has some words for you.

Link borked.
posted by ixohoxi at 10:16 AM on April 7, 2011


This will not get women into bed, like its proponents think.

I disagree. Manipulative vapid douches have gotten women to sleep with them with this phony shtick for centuries....
posted by Skygazer at 10:17 AM on April 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


delicate_dahlias: "They are doing something. If you are someone who is inclined to mock this video, it may be helpful to ask yourself this question: What have I done to change the way that women the world over are often treated by men? The answer is probably not much. While somewhat misguided, these guys are at least willing to publicly take a stand against the oppression of women and I find that to be admirable. "

They're casting blame and apologizing because they've suddenly seen the light. Okay. What else are they doing that's constructive?

I'm all for raising awareness but this video simply seems rather meaningless to me. An empty gesture.

So you've seen the light. Great. Happy for ya. Now get your hands dirty and try to do something that will have an actual effect on the way women are treated in our society. Volunteer at a Planned Parenthood and support reproductive rights. Donate your time and services to NOW or RAINN. Fight for what matters.
posted by zarq at 10:17 AM on April 7, 2011 [3 favorites]


You can't worship something unless you objectify it. Ugh. I don't want to be under your black boot, but I don't want to be on a fucking pedestal either. In both cases, I can't move.
posted by madred at 10:17 AM on April 7, 2011 [23 favorites]


Put the damn seat down so we don't fall into the cold toilet water in the middle of the night.

Turn on the damn light and I promise you won't fall in. (I mean, I sit to poop, and I'd never dream of sitting without looking first. What if there were spiders?)
posted by Forktine at 10:18 AM on April 7, 2011


Men do not sit to pee. It's in our genetics or sumpin'.

I can assure that some men sit to pee. Also, some women can pee standing up if they're wearing a skirt.

Seriously, sit-pees are awesome, especially when drunk or sleepy. I don't know why some guys are so resistant to admitting that a good sit-down on the toilet is often just what the doctor ordered.

Anyway, the clear winner in this debate is putting down both the seat and the lid - both partners have to work to use it, and it prevents flush germs from getting all over the place.
posted by muddgirl at 10:18 AM on April 7, 2011 [15 favorites]


Dear Women,

We apologize profusely for your late night and unintended dunkings. If you like we can construct a method to reduce this risk, along with instructional video. We're also available for lessons on technique with your unfamiliar anatomy, just let us know which you prefer.

Best,
Men
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:20 AM on April 7, 2011


Sorry.
posted by bonehead at 10:21 AM on April 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


It's "Dear Woman", by the way. That's why this part:
Men have raped you, abused you, sold your bodies as commerce.
is sort of freaky. To rewrite:
Men have raped a woman, abused a woman, sold a woman's body as commerce.
It treats men as a collective and woman as a single body. Again, freaky.
posted by muddgirl at 10:22 AM on April 7, 2011


the clear winner in this debate is putting down both the seat and the lid - both partners have to work to use it, and it prevents flush germs from getting all over the place. Also, it keeps the cats from trying to drink toilet water.
posted by epersonae at 10:23 AM on April 7, 2011 [4 favorites]


Seriouly though, this looks like a lot of new-agey inspired relationship stuff that's been popping up the last couple of years. What isn't being said is "we are masculinity!" Which is fine as a general statement but usually there's a whole lot of "and as men, we must take control of our masculinity." Which is basically one step away from Cruise's "respect the cock" in Magnolia

From the Globe and Mail:
The two founders are pensive types: Gay Hendricks offers online relationship therapy with his wife Kathlyn while Arjuna Ardagh is hawking his “Deeper Love” retreat in Corfu, Greece.

Not to be outdone, Mr. Ardagh’s wife Chameli, has also repledged her own apology – on behalf of all women to men.
By the way, is Jezebel good for anything other than kneejerk youtube level response? At least link to an intelligent comment if you want me to head over there.
posted by P.o.B. at 10:23 AM on April 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


There must be some inscrutable law of gender dynamics that makes us always end up talking about toilet seats. How are we ever going to honor your deep relationship to the earth if we can't get past this?
posted by dirtdirt at 10:24 AM on April 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


I think it's because gender is about as superficial as one's preferred toilet seat configuration.
posted by LogicalDash at 10:25 AM on April 7, 2011 [4 favorites]


The women's apology to "Man" is.
posted by Mister_A at 10:25 AM on April 7, 2011


You're all wrong - the clear winner is squatting, in squat toilets, which has tons of advantages for your digestive system, keeps you fit, and will also eliminate the need to argue about the seat and lid. It will let us all have a much deeper connection to the earth, too, for sure. Let's join, sisters and brothers, in honoring the squat toilet.
posted by bitteschoen at 10:27 AM on April 7, 2011 [4 favorites]


> Anyway, the clear winner in this debate is putting down both the seat and the lid

Totally. This is the rule in our house. It looks better, is fair for everyone, and keeps the CHUDs at bay.
posted by Burhanistan at 10:27 AM on April 7, 2011 [3 favorites]


In the "You're Doin' It Wrong" thread, we were told that toilets should just be holes for squatting over. I didn't want to derail the conversation over there, but I was very worried about all the women drowning when we remove the toilet seat altogether.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:28 AM on April 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


Putting down the lid is not great in a humid house - increases mildew growth above the waterline.
posted by TAP at 10:28 AM on April 7, 2011


the clear winner is squatting, in squat toilets

I've actually never used a squat toilet (and I can tell you that there's nothing more terrifying to a WASPY sheltered middle-class 9-year-old then having to squat-pee on a hiking trip) - do men squat to piss, or do they just stand up like in a pedestal toilet?
posted by muddgirl at 10:30 AM on April 7, 2011


I'll use the passive voice to show how gentle I'll be...

Fair warning: the pictures are a shining parade of low-res WTF-ery, but the song's great. Like, play it when you're cruising through the manifesto or something.
posted by shiu mai baby at 10:30 AM on April 7, 2011


Actually, a discussion of toilet dynamics is probably the best of possible turns this thread could take.
posted by Burhanistan at 10:31 AM on April 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


I can assure that some men sit to pee.

And I can assure, by far, the percentage of men who prefer to sit and pee is probably in the single digits.

If women really want to understand why men generally don't sit you would probably have to borrow the equipment and use it in all it's glorious and sometimes uncomfortable states.
posted by P.o.B. at 10:31 AM on April 7, 2011


If some guy I was dating started yammering on about this sacred feminine connected to the earth sorry MEN are such war-making neanderthals, here, let me pull out your tampon for you, I do believe I would vomit. And then run. And then vomit some more.
posted by shiu mai baby at 10:32 AM on April 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


(All joking aside, I'm not sure I could use a squat toilet without falling down or crapping in my pants.)
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:32 AM on April 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


Seriously, sit-pees are awesome, especially when drunk or sleepy. I don't know why some guys are so resistant to admitting that a good sit-down on the toilet is often just what the doctor ordered.

This can't be stated strongly enough - I always sit whenever possible. It calms my frazzled nerves at work, and it's the main reason I have the Globe and Mail on my Blackberry.
posted by CynicalKnight at 10:32 AM on April 7, 2011 [4 favorites]


And I can assure, by far, the percentage of men who prefer to sit and pee is probably in the single digits.

Is there a study? I would never assume anything about what women prefer when it comes to pissing, because pissing is one of those things where we learn THE RIGHT WAY from our parents, and rarely question it.

Heck, maybe I'd prefer to pee through one of those paper funnels, but I'd never know until I tried.
posted by muddgirl at 10:37 AM on April 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


I appreciate the use of active voice: Men have raped you, abused you, sold your bodies as commerce. Instead of the too frequent: Women are raped and abused and sold. I give them all sorts of kudos for that alone.

I respectfully disagree. Some men have done those things. I'm a man, and I haven't. To implicate all men in those crimes (or to suggest that all women have been victim to those crimes) still reduces a person's identity to their gender, and assigns blame (or victimhood) to them solely because of it. And to apologize for a crime committed by another person is just weird.

I don't think blanket assertions of blame do much good. What we need is individual men to behave well in their individual interactions with individual women. Is it important to recognize the extent to which this doesn't happen? Of course. Is it helpful (or fair) to paint all men as part of the problem, even those who are doing their best to be part of the solution? I don't think it is.
posted by ixohoxi at 10:37 AM on April 7, 2011 [3 favorites]


zarq: So you've seen the light. Great. Happy for ya. Now get your hands dirty and try to do something that will have an actual effect on the way women are treated in our society. Volunteer at a Planned Parenthood and support reproductive rights. Donate your time and services to NOW or RAINN. Fight for what matters.

I agree with you. That's why I posted a link to a book that offers some of the best advice I've seen for concrete action and involvement. However, I think there are many many people out there, mostly men, who are not willing to admit that there is a problem or will even defend the status quo. The men in the video are taking the first step by identifying that there is a problem, and I think that is a necessary thing to do, flowery language and misguided assumptions aside. They may also be actively involved, which I wouldn't know.
posted by delicate_dahlias at 10:37 AM on April 7, 2011


THE NEW NEW AGE
SAME AS THE OLD NEW AGE
(BUT WITH BETTER PRODUCTION VALUES)
posted by wemayfreeze at 10:38 AM on April 7, 2011


So, basically, this is the Nice Guy Manifesto.
posted by LordSludge at 10:38 AM on April 7, 2011 [3 favorites]


It's the New Age Phony Nice Guy with a Mommy complex Manifesto.

I'm pretty sure there's a Warlock in there too...
posted by Skygazer at 10:40 AM on April 7, 2011


I remember the '70s. But I don't miss them.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:40 AM on April 7, 2011


(All joking aside, I'm not sure I could use a squat toilet without falling down or crapping in my pants.)

Somebody needs to start doing some squats, ballshots and lunges. Maybe a few burpees too.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:42 AM on April 7, 2011


I believe you should place a woman on a pedestal, high enough so you can look up her dress... - Steve Martin
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:43 AM on April 7, 2011


Is there a study?

You've gotta be kidding me.
posted by P.o.B. at 10:43 AM on April 7, 2011


Would you stop making stuff up, Brandon?
posted by Mister_A at 10:44 AM on April 7, 2011


Dear Man,

It's a lie that men don't sit to pee. Some men do, sometimes. Also, it's hard to see that the seat's up in the dark. If overspill is such a problem then wipe it down before you leave the bathroom.

Best,
Woman
posted by Malice at 10:44 AM on April 7, 2011


And I can assure, by far, the percentage of men who prefer to sit and pee is probably in the single digits.

Well, if you've ever lived with a woman, you learn to sit down as it's a lot neater and keeps the bathroom cleaner. Especially the floor. Women will break up with you if you inadvertently tickle on their floors.

Dear Women,

I'm sorry I inadvertently tinkled on your floor(s).

I was just anxious to get back into bed with you. And worship at the alter of your Womanhood.


Signed,

Skygazer
posted by Skygazer at 10:45 AM on April 7, 2011 [4 favorites]


(All joking aside, I'm not sure I could use a squat toilet without falling down or crapping in my pants.)
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:32 AM on April 7 [+] [!]


I'm undecided if those are healthier or not. Someone posted you have more strokes when squatting! Wtf?
posted by Malice at 10:46 AM on April 7, 2011


As people have rightly pointed out, the video assumes a static femininity and leaves no space for where most of us live. But it also assumes a pretty lame masculinity, one purely heteronormative, and never talks at all about relationships between men, romantic, sexual, platonic, or familial.

If men are going to get feminist, we have to do it for ourselves as much as "for women". Is the problem with, say, violent masculinity that it's bad for women, or that it's bad for all of us?
posted by wemayfreeze at 10:47 AM on April 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


Well, if you've ever lived with a woman, you learn to sit down as it's a lot neater and keeps the bathroom cleaner. Especially the floor. Women will break up with you if you inadvertently tickle on their floors.


LOL.
posted by Malice at 10:47 AM on April 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


This will not get women into bed, like its proponents think.

I don't know...what kind of car do they drive?
posted by rocket88 at 10:47 AM on April 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


You've gotta be kidding me

Not particularly. I don't assume that my own opinions represent the majority opinion - after all, they rarely do.

Perhaps it has something to do with Masculine Energy. :)
posted by muddgirl at 10:49 AM on April 7, 2011


Try tickling on their floors advertently.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:49 AM on April 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


Ah, that old "Female Void devouring the Male Light" saw.
posted by bonehead at 10:51 AM on April 7, 2011


I don't assume that my own opinions represent the majority opinion - after all, they rarely do.

I'm glad you've realized what you think about using male genitalia is probably wholly inaccurate.
posted by P.o.B. at 10:53 AM on April 7, 2011


Women will break up with you if you inadvertently tickle on their floors.

The damn thing comes with a handle, learn to use it.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:53 AM on April 7, 2011


Putting down the lid is not great in a humid house - increases mildew growth above the waterline.

You prefer to get feces all over your bathroom, including exposed toothbrushes and so on, than clean some mildew every so often? I suppose that's one way to go!
posted by Justinian at 10:55 AM on April 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


This is like the tiger mom post— garbage in, garbage out:

The Thnikkaman: "Probably just trying to get some"
Skygazer: "I'm not a violent man... But I sorta want to beat these guys up"
shiu mai baby: "here, let me pull out your tampon for you, "

Seriously?
posted by grammar corrections at 10:56 AM on April 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


I hope I'm never called upon to give criticism on something like this, because I really don't want these guys to give up, but I don't know what else to say.

They're thinking, they're trying, they're talking, they're putting vivid discourse out into public and knowingly risking ridicule. Is it perfect? No. Really no - but how could it have been done better? I respect the effort, and I'm glad it's not another pop-culture parody or information-poor angry diatribe -- this is sincere open effort, and it's far far preferable to the male-rape-victim stuff. While I may not find it easy to watch, and I could certainly sharpen my own wit here if I wanted, I think that we all need to be welcoming to this kind of effort. I intend to analyze what makes me uncomfortable about this video and figure out how apply those lessons.
posted by amtho at 10:57 AM on April 7, 2011 [3 favorites]


MetaFilter: Seriously?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:58 AM on April 7, 2011


I have left
my piss
on the floor
of your bathroom

that which
you had assiduously
cleaned
last weekend

Forgive me
I was sleepy
and had
a hair on my weenus
posted by bonehead at 10:59 AM on April 7, 2011 [7 favorites]


I think when they are talking about 'the unconscious masculine', maybe what they are trying to shoot for (but missing) is closer to male privilege?

I think it's just that a lot of this kind of 'new masculinity' stuff can be traced back to a mix of elements picked from Jungian psychoanalysis (as well as from 'new age' stuff and from targeted interpretations of classical literature and mythology). But mostly Jung & co. It's a lot about the idea of gender archetypes (so that's why it sounds like stereotypes on steroids). I had to read a bit on the topic way back in my student days and I just have vague generic memories now, but even considering the fuzzy area that "theories of masculinity" (or "femininity") inhabit, it has been done LOTS better than this. I honestly cannot see how this can be taken seriously, it feels like an insult to the actual interesting stuff - from all points of view - that's been written in gender studies, in psychology, in psychoanalysis even. They may all be fuzzy vast areas anyway, and contain a lot of ideological crap, but at least there are people who tried to say something genuinely thought-provoking there.
posted by bitteschoen at 10:59 AM on April 7, 2011


I'm glad you've realized what you think about using male genitalia is probably wholly inaccurate.

Feel free to keep on mocking me instead of engaging, if that's your bag. Reportedly, 40% of adult Japanese men say that they sit down to pee, but I guess they don't count. Neither, of course, do men who physically can not pee standing up, whether because of genital or other physical defects.

I think it's just that a lot of this kind of 'new masculinity' stuff can be traced back to a mix of elements picked from Jungian psychoanalysis

A lot of this stuff seems really closely tied to some of the stuff I learned in a college class called "Visions of the Divine Feminine", which was focused on Hindu and Buddhist practices of goddess-worship. Definitely the masculine and feminine energy stuff is relatively mainstream in many Indian religious communities, as well as the idea of complementary masculine and feminine spheres.

Really, Chameli's apology to man represents what I would consider to be a very conservative view of the relationship between men and women.
posted by muddgirl at 11:04 AM on April 7, 2011


To implicate all men in those crimes (or to suggest that all women have been victim to those crimes) still reduces a person's identity to their gender, and assigns blame (or victimhood) to them solely because of it. And to apologize for a crime committed by another person is just weird.

I agree with you, ixohoxi. However, the burden has been placed on women to protect themselves because men rape and abuse. The best link I have for this is Jackson Katz's 'Violence Against Women" exercise.
posted by psylosyren at 11:06 AM on April 7, 2011


Regarding apologies: I am thankful that leaders of nations have apologized for atrocities done to other human beings when the said leader had nothing to do with the crimes. To me it is not weird, but it creates an environment conducive to healing.
posted by psylosyren at 11:10 AM on April 7, 2011


mudgirl: as someone with some childhood experience of squat toilets, unfortunately (not in the house, thank god! smaller bars or cafés in small towns, in Italy, where it was called 'la turca', the Turkish toilet - now there are accessibility regulations so it's become harder to find squat toilets), I can testify that males will not squat when they just need to pee. It'd be a useless extra effort (and it does take some effort to squat effectively on a squat toilet and aim for the hole). So yeah, standing. Now that I think about it, that kind of weakens the gender-egalitarian quality of the squat toilet, hmmm...
posted by bitteschoen at 11:11 AM on April 7, 2011


I am thankful that leaders of nations have apologized for atrocities done to other human beings

That doesn't seem comparable - these guys aren't leaders of their gender, and I do not think that they can even speak even for every "conscious" man. For example, there are no gay men or lesbian women in this conscious world they have conceived.
posted by muddgirl at 11:17 AM on April 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


Also this reminds me of Utah Phillips' story about Nevada City, California...

I'm still in Nevada City, California, up there in the foo-thills of the Sierra. Call 'em foo-thills cause it's spelled like that. Oh, the old gold mining town - I've talked to some of you about that - twenty-seven hundred people there, one of the forty-niners' towns. And I also told you about the only social life in town being the, the Books of Harmony New Age Bookstore, where people go down in the evening and channel dolphins, and Martians - it's a new-age chronosynclastic infindibulum, or epicenter, as it were, Nevada City, California.

Well, I was gone for a bit on one of the trips since I saw you last and I got back, and my wife had bought the bookstore. Um, so I am now ostensibly part proprietor of a new-age bookstore in Nevada City, California, hehehehe, can you picture that? Whee! Well, and I'm open to all those things. If you live in California, you've got to be open; if you're not they pry you open.

And I read as much as I can cause they got all the new men's literature in there. Most of my men friends belong to men's - Robert Bly's - drumming circles. Do they do that here? Healthy! They're out in the, in the wilderness, caterwauling and flailing away at those things, and dragging their scrotums through the underbrush. It's healthy, I suppose...

We got narps, you got narps around here? New-age rural professionals? Out cruising the backroads in their old green carryalls with their car stereos, blaring meditation music out into the wilderness. It's a conscience. Whole place lightning-struck by the peripatetic ruminations of the Tibetan ruling class in exile, ahh. Lot of Buddhists around there.

Meanwhile this very minute, old Jesse McVay the welldigger - no one knows how old he is, lived in that county all of his life - is sitting at the bar of the national hotel this very minute, looking at the freaks out in the street, and muttering under his breath:

"Now matter how new-age you get, old age gonna kick your ass."

posted by entropone at 11:18 AM on April 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


For example, there are no gay men or lesbian women in this conscious world they have conceived.

You know, when first commenting on this post, I'd actually typed out a couple of pages from an ACTUAL manifesto that's near and dear to my heart, but then realized that it had more to do with homosexuals than anything else, so I just deleted it.
posted by hippybear at 11:20 AM on April 7, 2011


Just a couple of guys attempting to come up with some chick crack. Move along, nothing to see here.
posted by banished at 11:21 AM on April 7, 2011


This is the sort of things that happens when you convince some men that porn on the net is a bad thing.
posted by Postroad at 11:24 AM on April 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


Feel free to keep on mocking me instead of engaging, if that's your bag.

I don't mind having an intelligent conversation but this isn't one. You started this discussion from a point of assuming total ignorance on my part. Sorry, but I have a penis. Which kind of gives me a lifetime of experience. I've lived with both men and women. You started off as if I didn't know that some men like to sit when they pee, or that woman can stand and pee. Also this discussion revolves around using the toilet to urinate. Not using it as a breaktime to read as someone else mentioned, different subject. Not about squatting or squat toilets as are common in other countries, so yes that would change the logistics and norms. And I don't know why you thought we were talking about paraplegics or somesuch, but no.

This wasn't on my list of things to do today and I don't really see the point in investing any more time into it.
posted by P.o.B. at 11:27 AM on April 7, 2011


Grammatical COrrections: Seriously?

Yeah, sure. In a Three Stooges kinda way.
posted by Skygazer at 11:30 AM on April 7, 2011


You started this discussion from a point of assuming total ignorance on my part.

I started from the position that some men pee sitting down. I have no idea how many there are. YOU have no idea how many there are (despite your continued protests to the contrary). I don't know why this fact is controversial.

You started off as if I didn't know that some men like to sit when they pee, or that woman can stand and pee.

So you DO know that there is no genetic reason why men stand to pee? That it's not hardwired into the a Y-chromosome? Because that was the point I was and continue to dispute.

Not about squatting or squat toilets as are common in other countries

They use pedestal toilets in Japan, which is the location of a study which purportedly shows that 40% of adult males pee sitting down (i can't read japanese, which is why I say purportedly). Are Japanese men genetically different from American men?
posted by muddgirl at 11:36 AM on April 7, 2011


Jeeeeeeeeezus. The genetics thing was a joke.
posted by P.o.B. at 11:38 AM on April 7, 2011


> Are Japanese men genetically different from American men?

Probably.
posted by Burhanistan at 11:40 AM on April 7, 2011


Dear Man,

It's a lie that men don't sit to pee. Some men do, sometimes. Also, it's hard to see that the seat's up in the dark. If overspill is such a problem then wipe it down before you leave the bathroom.

Best,
Woman


Dear Woman,

How come you don't turn on the bathroom light? You could slip on the wet-with-pee bathroom floor, stumbling around in the dark like that.


Man
posted by Hoopo at 11:40 AM on April 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


Wow, I'm glad I left this thread before it got urine-soaked.
posted by DU at 11:44 AM on April 7, 2011


It's a joke based on the premise that men who don't fit a standard of behavior aren't actually Men.
posted by muddgirl at 11:44 AM on April 7, 2011


It was a joke. Full stop.

By the way, pedestal toilet.

Know I'm wondering whether mocking is worse than obviously arguing in bad faith.
posted by P.o.B. at 11:49 AM on April 7, 2011


*Divine Mother Goddess sweeps in*

Play nicely, my children. You may pee however you like. Just not on one another.

Kisses!
posted by likeso at 11:51 AM on April 7, 2011


Woman,

What is it with all the throw pillows on everything?

Sincerely,

Ev
posted by everichon at 11:52 AM on April 7, 2011


I saw a sketch about this ages ago. I think it was SNL and the man was played by Alec Baldwin. And yes, he was trying to get some. The only line I remember is when he suggested to the woman that they should read aloud to each other from "Our Bodies, Ourselves".

I had to look that up, and luckily a website with the SNL transcripts helped, here it is - it was Jay Leno:
[ open on dark, empty apartment, as Jay Leno and his date Kate enter, turn on the lights and sit on the couch in the center of the room ]

Kate: Oh, Jay.. I had a wonderful time tonight.

Jay Leno: Well, you know, I.. I ould see "Unmarried Woman" fifty times.

Kate: Oh, I know, it was really great. Jay, your commitment to feminism is so strong.

Jay Leno: Oh, it's not really feminism, so much, Kate, as it is, I guess.. people. You know, I guess you could say I'm a people person. But, listen - before we read aloud from "Our Bodies Ourselves".. [ picks up book from coffee table ] ..can I, uh.. can I offer you a little herbal tea?

Kate: Oh, Jay, that would be wonderful!

Jay Leno: And then, once we've been warmed by the tea.. [ apprehensively ] ..possibly, you and I could, uh.. make loves?

Kate: Oh. [ a pause ] Jay, you're such a good, good man.. and I'm tempted, but.. I don't believe in making love until I get to know someone very, very well.

Jay Leno: Oh, Kate, Kate, you don't know how glad that makes me feel! Alright, look - it was a cruel test, but I just had to be sure that you feel the same way I do about making love too soon. Listen, hey - how about that tea now, huh?

Kate: I'd love it.

Jay Leno: Alright! [ retreats to the kitchen ]

[ Kate waits on the couch, reflecting on the wonderful man she's dating, when a man who looks exactly like Jay, except with a moustache, steps out of the kitchen holding a can of beer ]

Jay's Evil Twin: What's the matter, baby? Still got your clothes on? [ releases an evil laugh as he shakes the beer can ]

Kate: Oh, uh.. I don't want that beer.. I.. no, thank you, Jay.

Jay's Evil Twin: [ releases an evil laugh ] Wet t-shirt contest, baby? [ pulls the tab on the beer can, gushing beer all over Kate's clothes ]

Kate: Why! You're not Jay! You're Wade, his evil twin!

Jay's Evil Twin: [ releases an evil laugh ] Jay - that little weasel! That sniveling druid! What kind of a man would read "Our Bodies Ourselves"? I've got my own version of that book, baby - it's called "Your Body Myself!" [ releases an evil laugh ]

Kate: Ohhh, that's evil! You're an evil, evil man! [ runs quickly out of the apartment ]

Jay Leno: [ releases an evil laugh, as he peels the fake moustache off his upper lip ] You know.. I had a hunch that dame wasn't going to come across on the first date. You know, this evil twin thing works every time - I could have blown three hours and who knows how much dough on that girl. But, anyway.. [ checks his watch ] My God, it's still early.. I can still go to Hef's place, maybe meet somebody else there. See you later. [ releases evil laugh as he exits the apartment ]
posted by bitteschoen at 11:53 AM on April 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


This is like a bulletin board in a Berkeley coffee shop, except in creepy, video form.
posted by brundlefly at 11:57 AM on April 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


When I visited Japan, I was utterly confounded by the squat toilets and ended up peeing on my pants the second day. For the next week, every time I went to the bathroom I took my pants and underwear off and put them aside.

Also teehee MANifesto I bet that was deliberate. I'm reminded of this scene from Home Movies (All in favor say MAN! We have taken a man-vote! We have a man-date!)... but you know what? The fictional Crywalkers are way less creepy, because at least they're focusing on their inner selves and not being all like "I honor your intuition and the beauty of your body, baby."
posted by Metroid Baby at 11:58 AM on April 7, 2011


YOU have no idea how many there are...

One data point: in the men's room, there's usually one or more regular urinals, a kid's size urinal, one or more toilet stalls. The order of preference is 1 - regular urinal, 2 - kid's urinal (due greater risk of splash damage), 3 - stalls. The preference for the urinals over the stall applies even when using the urinal would put you next to a man who's using the urinal next to it. So the international urinal choice protocol only applies to urinals - stalls are not included.

If lots of men peed sitting down, I would expect much more use of the stalls than what I see; and also that the cultural norm would put stalls on equal footing with urinals.
posted by AlsoMike at 12:14 PM on April 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


I think I might have a better manifesto, lets call it the You're a Person Manifesto.

I acknowledge, readily, that you are an independent person in mind and body. I will not demean, disrespect, or devalue anything that you are or do nor will I attempt to subvert your life in any way, not even (or especially not) to further my own enjoyment of life.

Also, I will keep the fridge stocked with beer. You're welcome to a few.
posted by Slackermagee at 12:17 PM on April 7, 2011 [6 favorites]


Play nicely, my children. You may pee however you like. Just not on one another.

I know a bunch of gay bikers who will be unhappy to hear that.

(Seriously, what is it about gay bikers and pissing on each other?)

The order of preference is 1 - regular urinal, 2 - kid's urinal (due greater risk of splash damage), 3 - stalls. The preference for the urinals over the stall applies even when using the urinal would put you next to a man who's using the urinal next to it.

No, the order of preference is dependent on how heavy the traffic is in the bathroom. Mostly deserted most of the time? Urinal is fine. Lots of people in and out? Stall. Alway the stall. (I have a notoriously shy bladder.)
posted by hippybear at 12:20 PM on April 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


It cracks me up that, on a website where these threads usually turn into, "Why can't men just accept that they don't understand women's issues," this one has become (in part) a referendum from women on how men feel about standing to pee.
posted by red clover at 12:28 PM on April 7, 2011


A part of me likes to imagine that this was made by some men's rights advocates (ugh) who wanted to parody their idea of male feminists.

Also, I imagine they're all very happy with their Dodge Chargers.

But this appears to be real, so... wow.
posted by mccarty.tim at 12:33 PM on April 7, 2011


The "they" in the second sentence refers to the hypothetical trolls.
posted by mccarty.tim at 12:34 PM on April 7, 2011


Man this ridiculous thing provided me with so many lols today. Thanks for posting it!

Just looking at their faces make me laugh. So EARNEST and yet so CREEPY.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:38 PM on April 7, 2011


Play nicely, my children. You may pee however you like. Just not on one another.


Don't you tell me who I can or cannot pee on!

G-D divine mother goddesses, always buttin' in to peoples' private lives...what two or more consenting adults want to do or have done to them is they own damn business.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:40 PM on April 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


Regarding apologies: I am thankful that leaders of nations have apologized for atrocities done to other human beings when the said leader had nothing to do with the crimes. To me it is not weird, but it creates an environment conducive to healing.

Let me just appoint myself leader of half the world's population. . . .
posted by grobstein at 12:49 PM on April 7, 2011


Dear women,

How are you enjoying the quarry? I'm not really sure what else to ask. All you do is sit there. Not that it's possible for an 11-tonne granite slab to do anything else. In fact, you can't even read this missive. I'm only writing this because there were so many people addressing women as a monolith, but nobody was addressing a monolith as women.
posted by "Elbows" O'Donoghue at 1:00 PM on April 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


Dear Woman,

Men would like to apologize for the creepy apology earlier. However, the men hired to continue the apology after the other men had been sacked, wish it to be known that they have just been sacked. The apology has been completed in an entirely different style at great expense and at the last minute.

Men
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:06 PM on April 7, 2011 [12 favorites]


Dear Woman,

We apologize for what the llamas have done.

Men
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 1:31 PM on April 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


They sound like Sensitive New Age Guys.

(Sorry couldn't find the original on short notice.)
posted by Herodios at 1:34 PM on April 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


Dammit Herodios, I was just about to post that!!
posted by vespabelle at 1:38 PM on April 7, 2011


After the fall in Garden of Eden, Adam was walking with his sons Cain and Abel.

They passed by the ruins of the Garden of Eden. One of the boys asked, "What's that?"

Adam replied, "Boys, that's where your mother ate us out of house and home."
posted by storybored at 1:39 PM on April 7, 2011


As mentioned upthread, a sit-pee is a great time to take a brief break. More importantly, it reduces the amount of standing, rotting pee on and around the toilet to zero. If you are a man and you live with a woman, you ought to be either sit-peeing or cleaning the toilet every ~48 hours-- my $0.02.

And someone please clarify this water-sitting business: you honestly feel along walls in your bathroom and sit on the toilet in the dark? That's the strangest fucking thing I've ever heard in my life. Still-- if that's a given, you actually sit without feeling for the seat? This is like walking into traffic with your eyes closed; I don't get it-- on two levels now.

I will say that when I see a seat-and-cover left up, I privately think the culprit to be an enemy to humankind. Whether you're a man, a woman, or a talented pet-- close THE COVER (which provides the added convenience of omitting the "seat" cliche from the discussion, since the seat is actually under it) for the germ- and pet- (/child-?) related reasons mentioned upthread.

And let's not even touch on the "...let it mellow" nonsense, not today.
(*dry heave)

Great-- how many separate categories of enemy did I just make in the greater toilet community?
posted by herbplarfegan at 1:41 PM on April 7, 2011


MetaFilter: the greater toilet community
posted by hippybear at 1:54 PM on April 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


Conscious? Nope, sorry, you've got quite a ways to go yet.

I Blame the Patriarchy is enjoying this, too.
posted by Corvid at 1:57 PM on April 7, 2011


the greater toilet community

preferred term is "logosphere"

posted by cortex at 2:06 PM on April 7, 2011 [4 favorites]


Stop othering me dude.
posted by Coaticass at 2:38 PM on April 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


Hah! Best comment from the I Blame the Patriarchy article (permalink, for the benefit of future readers): "And that's why I hate Rusted Root".
posted by ixohoxi at 2:45 PM on April 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


The Patriarchy and, the hairtastrophe that appears at 3:11, harms everyone.
posted by EatTheWeak at 2:49 PM on April 7, 2011


5:39 - Apology video to the whole of womankind? Lets put some machineguns in that.
posted by EatTheWeak at 2:53 PM on April 7, 2011


Speaking of 3:11, they take a dig at Islam right around there by showing a shot of worshipers next to the Ka'aba in Mecca with a quip about exclusive spiritualities. Well, men and women pray next to each other there, Mr. Dreadfop.
posted by Burhanistan at 2:53 PM on April 7, 2011


(more like 5:25)
posted by EatTheWeak at 2:54 PM on April 7, 2011


Anyway, I like how their video seems to alienate everyone except for "sensitive" guys who take their oath.
posted by Burhanistan at 2:55 PM on April 7, 2011


7:07 - Least passive passive-aggression.
posted by EatTheWeak at 2:59 PM on April 7, 2011


Hey, ho, Carl the Jung here with another late breaking news item! The unconscioius mind of both biological sexes contains both "male" and "female" aspects, an idea supported by the mystical traditions of pretty much every major religion (yin/yang, to give one obvious example). The "female" aspect corresponds with such qualities as nurturing, compassion, empathy, emotion, the natural world, growth, cooperation, etc. The "male" with competition, aggression, rationality, power, cultivation, logic, etc. This in no way implies that the individual XX-chromosomed biological entity sitting next to you on the subway will manifest the qualities generally identified as "female" in the mythical structure, or that the fella you're dancing with -- laden as he may be with testosterone -- will in any way embody those attributes identified as mythically "male." This is where many people -- including these fellas in the video -- become confused. I would posit that these guys' hearts are in the right place, but they are making the fundamental mistake of confusing actual walking-around-type women with the Female Principle latent within them, which has in fact been repressed horribly in our patriarchal society, and most probably within their own personality structure, and with which they might well wish to become better acquainted for their own benefit, not that of the lucky ladies they purport to worship. Because even though the repression of the Inner Female has led to a whole lot of macho-aggressive violence and other bullshit of which real live women are more often than not the victims, the Way is not to for men to switch to a worship of those real life women. That's just another form of objectification in the end. Instead, it's to honor the Goddess we find inside ourselves, in order to become more fully human.
posted by haricotvert at 3:07 PM on April 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


Who let Carl Jung into the trucker crank? Goddammit, you guys!
posted by Diablevert at 3:14 PM on April 7, 2011 [3 favorites]


Excuse me? I ordered the Carl's Jr. Young Meal, not the Carl Jung Yr. meal. Can I get a refund, please?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:34 PM on April 7, 2011 [2 favorites]


an idea supported by the mystical traditions of pretty much every major religion

Pretty much every major religion claims that there are invisible supernatural beings, too. That doesn't make it so.
posted by ixohoxi at 3:41 PM on April 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


I'm made more uncomfortable by all the bodily function discussion. But I gotta say as a guy it's easy to get confused as to how we should act and how we should do good.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 4:15 PM on April 7, 2011


Is anyone else vaguely creeped out by the fact that the website's background appears to be a butcher's block?
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 4:26 PM on April 7, 2011


Well, I am now!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:31 PM on April 7, 2011


But what are Carl Jung's theories on pissing?
posted by naju at 4:42 PM on April 7, 2011


Why do all these dudes look like they're holding back a giant bubble of rage
posted by tehloki at 4:48 PM on April 7, 2011


Took me 1.5 minutes to realize that this wasn't just really good satire.
posted by Plemer at 4:49 PM on April 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


But what are Carl Jung's theories on pissing?

Oh, there's a huge section in the Red Book about this, but basically it says "not into the wind."

I would take that with a grain of salt though because he clearly didn't do any studies.
posted by P.o.B. at 5:08 PM on April 7, 2011


There are dozens of these skeevey older silverfox dudes in my town who still wear tie dye into their fifties, mansplain feminism on the bus (I've seen it! it's amazing!) and habitually offer women young enough to be their daughters Reiki massages and energy treatments. Sometimes they show up at open mics and stuff like this comes out of their dream journals.

This is like all of those dudes getting together and making a group rate discount video personal ad.
posted by EatTheWeak at 5:21 PM on April 7, 2011 [11 favorites]


habitually offer women young enough to be their daughters Reiki massages

::shudder::

Reminds me of a terrible weekend housesitting for a friend of a friend when I was 22. I was planning to spend my time writing copiously in my journal and moping about in the woods after a gnarly sorta-kinda breakup from a sorta-kinda relationship.

Only the owner came home earlier than expected, was "gracious" enough to turn on the hot tub so I could relax, and then attempted to give me a backrub. An Overly Friendly Backrub. NOT COOL.

Old enough to be my father? Check.
Tie dye? Check.
Skeevy dude thinking he was "cool" and "sensitive"? Check.

%#&*ing ruined my vacation. I was supposed to be there almost a week IIRC, but took the first ride home that I could get.
posted by epersonae at 5:37 PM on April 7, 2011


This thread has amused me far more than it should.
posted by Malice at 6:17 PM on April 7, 2011


My wife emailed this to me yesterday. And not in an ironic way. She loves it.

I am totally at sea here and fervently hope that this, and her memory of it, just go away. . .
posted by Danf at 7:08 PM on April 7, 2011




There are dozens of these skeevey older silverfox dudes in my town who still wear tie dye into their fifties


HEY NOW!!!!
posted by Danf at 7:28 PM on April 7, 2011 [3 favorites]


His name is Robert Paulson.
posted by 4ster at 7:36 PM on April 7, 2011 [1 favorite]


"Over the next months, we're going to be filming a series of live video interviews with some of the most extraordinary men alive on the planet"

ARE YOU READY FOR SOME PANTY-THROWING, WOMAN?
posted by dixiecupdrinking at 8:03 PM on April 7, 2011


From the manifesto: "I honor your capacity to listen to your body and its needs for food, rest and playtime." LOL WUT
posted by blargerz at 8:52 PM on April 7, 2011


Huh? I posted that quote too, but it disappeared. weird.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 10:04 PM on April 7, 2011


Is there some audience for this? I mean, really?
posted by effugas at 10:30 PM on April 7, 2011


Huh? I posted that quote too, but it disappeared. weird.

You appear to have posted it in a completely unrelated thread.
posted by cortex at 10:45 PM on April 7, 2011 [5 favorites]


this discussion revolves around using the toilet to urinate. Not using it as a breaktime to read as someone else mentioned, different subject. Not about squatting or squat toilets as are common in other countries, so yes that would change the logistics and norms. And I don't know why you thought we were talking about paraplegics or somesuch, but no.--P.o.B.

I don't know why this particular post made me laugh so much. P.o.B., when discussions go far awry from the original post, do you always take on the roll of King of Discussion, telling posters just exactly what crazy offshoots the discussions are allowed and not allowed to take?
posted by eye of newt at 11:21 PM on April 7, 2011


You appear to have posted it in a completely unrelated thread.

Ouch. I'm sorry about that.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 11:35 PM on April 7, 2011


If these guys are really serious then how about some compensation to prove just how really extremely sorry they are? I'm prepared to accept a significant quantity of cash on behalf of all womankind and promise to spend it on shoes and yoghurt and fair trade organic sanitary towels and maybe a sportscar. If they're not willing to send me a big cheque then it's all words and they're just the same as any other sleazy, clueless guys trying to get into your pants. Really, I don't need you to worship my shimmering gender energies and if you can't change a car tyre then what good are you?

I think that's fair.
posted by joannemullen at 12:55 AM on April 8, 2011 [1 favorite]


> Corn will also be served.

And after that, the finest sorbet from Paris
posted by imneuromancer at 5:55 AM on April 8, 2011


cortex: "You appear to have posted it in a completely unrelated thread."

Hilarious. So is this appropriate viewing/reading for an 11 year old? :D
posted by zarq at 6:32 AM on April 8, 2011


do you always take on the roll of King of Discussion, telling posters just exactly what crazy offshoots the discussions are allowed and not allowed to take?

What? Wow, seriously? Derail or not, even stupid conversations without context do not make sense. Whether that makes me some kind of King of blahblahblah... JesuswhyIamstillhavingthisinaneconversationaboutstupidtrollytroll???
posted by P.o.B. at 11:02 AM on April 8, 2011


Somehow, I simply cannot swallow that women are completely blameless and innocent bystanders in the chaos generally attributed to men and our rapaciousness.
No, anyone knowing men would certainly have choked, as I did, at Camille Paglia's comment in "Sexual Personae" which, because of my atrocious memory, I can only paraphrase as "if it wasn't for men (and their drivenness, she argues....), we would all still be living in grass huts.
Now who would insist on curtains on the windows on those grass huts? The bear with furniture? Or the woman?
Fast forward a moment to the point when men, supposedly, control most of the world and instigate, again supposedly, all the atrocities committed against the weak. Most of their companions could have spoken out against these rank exploitations and mistreatments of fellow humans but kept silent, thus becoming, if not instrumental in formulating policy, at least tacitly approving it. Silence is, after all, consent.
As women are the carriers of subsequent generations, I can understand the desire to protect progeny and foment conditions favorable in which to survive and thrive. But I refuse to buy the notion that women are, and always have been, unwitting participants and shrinking from the exigencies of "success".
I don't hate women, mind you. I see them for the master manipulators and puppetmasters they often are. And love them dearly for when I, too, am treated as I try to treat them, with respect and kindness. But history speaks for itself. Why else would a phrase like "behind every successful man is a woman", emerge in various similar forms in practically every culture on earth? A nod, likely, to the true power and influence, revealed in a way the wise can discern, flattering, yet cautionary..
posted by girdyerloins at 7:08 PM on April 8, 2011 [1 favorite]


Somehow, I simply cannot swallow…

Um.

What the Christ-humping shitfuck are you gibbering about? Curtains? "Master manipulators and puppetmasters"?

men, supposedly, control most of the world

Of Fortune 500 CEOs, 15 are women (3%).

Of forty-three Presidents of the United States, zero have been women. This map shows countries which have ever had a female head of state (or head of government). This table shows the percentage of (some of) those countries' heads of states who have been female—ranging from single digits in many cases, up to a whopping 25%.

Women in the United States still earn about three-quarters as much as men.

Of 112 Justices of the Supreme Court, four have been women (3.5%)—three of them currently serving, outnumbered two-to-one among their male colleagues.

Of 2,167 United States Senators, 39 have been women (1.8%). There are currently 17 serving (17%). In the House, there are currently 72 women (17%).

I could look up the number of female generals and other military officials who declare and wage war, but I've done enough of your work for you. Do it yourself.

And these facts mostly concern the United States. We haven't even considered the many places in the world where women are systematically deprived of education, medical care, and basic human rights. Nor have we considered the hundreds of thousands of women and girls (by the most conservative estimates—many studies put the numbers in the millions) who are involved in human trafficking and forced prostitution. (Those are very polite, abstract terms that refer to some truly horrific shit, which I won't detail here. But I invite you to learn about it.)

By any metric you care to name, right now, in 2011, men control huge majorities of the world's financial, political, and military power. And these numbers still represent a marked improvement over relatively recent living memory.

Your "supposedly" is full of shit, and you know it. So, for that matter, is the rest of your comment. But it's late, and I'm tired.

(To be clear: I'm not defending the "men ruin the world" trope. One needn't become a man-hating Valerie Solanas devotee to acknowledge objective fact.)
posted by ixohoxi at 10:19 PM on April 8, 2011 [7 favorites]


Ixohoxi, your facts are correct, but I think what Girdyerloins is trying to point out is that to paint women as "undriven" as Paglia does, and with such a broad brush of deification as these men in the video do stereotypes women and is a disservice to women as fully dimensional human beings, and to the complexity of male/female relationships and power structures.
posted by Skygazer at 9:23 AM on April 9, 2011 [1 favorite]


I don't hate women, mind you

Huh.

I see them for the master manipulators and puppetmasters they often are.

You sure?
posted by EatTheWeak at 12:03 PM on April 9, 2011 [2 favorites]


I do not avoid women, Mandrake. But I do deny them my essence.
posted by Drastic at 3:22 PM on April 9, 2011 [1 favorite]


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