Not for old fogies.
April 10, 2011 6:05 PM Subscribe
“The flapper movement is not a craze, but something that will stay,” the author maintained. “Many of the phrases now employed by members of this order will eventually find a way into common usage and be accepted as good English.”
And just for fun (in PDF format):
Damsels have knees, stockings scare dogs, and Cleopatra was a flapper.
Previously.
And just for fun (in PDF format):
Damsels have knees, stockings scare dogs, and Cleopatra was a flapper.
Previously.
Previously.
It seems lo be a slightly different list. The "Previously" link defines "Flatwheeler" as "A young man who takes a young lady to an egg harbor" while this link says "Slat shy of money; takes girls to free affairs."
posted by GenjiandProust at 6:13 PM on April 10, 2011
It seems lo be a slightly different list. The "Previously" link defines "Flatwheeler" as "A young man who takes a young lady to an egg harbor" while this link says "Slat shy of money; takes girls to free affairs."
posted by GenjiandProust at 6:13 PM on April 10, 2011
Is Heavy Petting Party on the list?
Oh how I wish flappers hadn't been a fad.
posted by cjorgensen at 6:17 PM on April 10, 2011 [5 favorites]
Oh how I wish flappers hadn't been a fad.
posted by cjorgensen at 6:17 PM on April 10, 2011 [5 favorites]
My mother, the flapper, is going to love this!
posted by StickyCarpet at 6:20 PM on April 10, 2011
posted by StickyCarpet at 6:20 PM on April 10, 2011
You better watch out for the ole Trotzky's!
posted by genekelly'srollerskates at 6:26 PM on April 10, 2011
posted by genekelly'srollerskates at 6:26 PM on April 10, 2011
My mother thought the Beatles were a fad in 1963. I thought rap was a fad during the brief reign of Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five three decades ago. We were wrong. However, the perpetuity of linguistic slang is obviously a different kettle of fish. Hardly a single bit of slanguage from the flapper period remains remotely comprehensible today. Some words/constructions that prescriptivists hate ("their" as a singular pronoun replacing his/her, for example) are obviously on their way to general acceptance.
Slang like this, though, well be relegated to The American Slang Dictionary and its ilk which will be consulted mostly by novelists/playwrights dedicated to capturing the feel of the times.
S.J. Perelman used a hell of a lot of slang (and Yiddish) - along with twenty-dollar words - to create works of humor which still hold up today (for me; my high school students are unimpressed).
It has been noted here, I believe, that 20-year old Simpsons episodes fall flat on those born too late to get the cultural references. Words, are, of course, a different matter than pop culture references whose sell-by date will be over sometimes months after they are used. Slang words are liable to stay put for a decade or so, I would generalize. Pop culture references are doomed.
The most-used slang, though, is often comprehensible for decades. However, the flappers stopped flapping 80 years ago. That's a long time.
Funny, though. "Cool" is still cool!
posted by kozad at 6:30 PM on April 10, 2011 [6 favorites]
Slang like this, though, well be relegated to The American Slang Dictionary and its ilk which will be consulted mostly by novelists/playwrights dedicated to capturing the feel of the times.
S.J. Perelman used a hell of a lot of slang (and Yiddish) - along with twenty-dollar words - to create works of humor which still hold up today (for me; my high school students are unimpressed).
It has been noted here, I believe, that 20-year old Simpsons episodes fall flat on those born too late to get the cultural references. Words, are, of course, a different matter than pop culture references whose sell-by date will be over sometimes months after they are used. Slang words are liable to stay put for a decade or so, I would generalize. Pop culture references are doomed.
The most-used slang, though, is often comprehensible for decades. However, the flappers stopped flapping 80 years ago. That's a long time.
Funny, though. "Cool" is still cool!
posted by kozad at 6:30 PM on April 10, 2011 [6 favorites]
I love that there are two different expressions for "dude who steps on your feet when he dances with you."
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:37 PM on April 10, 2011
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:37 PM on April 10, 2011
Snake—To call a victim with vampire arms.
In an idea world, this entry would say See also: "call", "victim", "vampire arms".
posted by gurple at 6:39 PM on April 10, 2011 [8 favorites]
In an idea world, this entry would say See also: "call", "victim", "vampire arms".
posted by gurple at 6:39 PM on April 10, 2011 [8 favorites]
I just love that STOCKINGS SCARE DOGS is in all caps. I don't know why.
posted by desjardins at 6:39 PM on April 10, 2011
posted by desjardins at 6:39 PM on April 10, 2011
My mother, the flapper, is going to love this!
Was your mother really an adult in the 1920s?
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 6:42 PM on April 10, 2011
Was your mother really an adult in the 1920s?
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 6:42 PM on April 10, 2011
Hardly a single bit of slanguage from the flapper period remains remotely comprehensible today.
A few single bits (presuming this list is accurate) that are quite comprehensible today:
The Bee's Knees
The Cat's Pajamas
Blaah (meaning "no good")
Crashing Party (Ok, so it's become something you do to a party, but it's definitely quite common now.)
Dogs (meaning "feet")
Most of these sound a little old-fashioned, of course, but definitely comprehensible.
Also, I suspect many of these were coined specifically in an attempt to be funny and that never caught on as part of the genuine language of the subculture. Lists like this tend to be full of those.
posted by ErWenn at 6:43 PM on April 10, 2011 [5 favorites]
Does anyone else remember using slang sincerely at some point in their lives, and then realizing a few years later, that it's just slipped out of their vocabulary? I grew up with "psyche!/sike!" and "radical!" and now I sort of cringe at those memories.
And then, there was the slang that seemed too cool for me to even contemplate using. For example, anything that Cher Horowitz ever said. Or Buffy & Co.
posted by ntartifex at 6:44 PM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
And then, there was the slang that seemed too cool for me to even contemplate using. For example, anything that Cher Horowitz ever said. Or Buffy & Co.
posted by ntartifex at 6:44 PM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
All slang will stay around forever, fo' shizzle. Word.
posted by CarlRossi at 6:45 PM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by CarlRossi at 6:45 PM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
Bell Polisher—A young man addicted to lingering in vestibules at 1 a.m
That's a thing? I've never hung out in a vestibule at 1 AM. Am I missing anything? Sounds like a Bauhaus song.
posted by NoMich at 6:45 PM on April 10, 2011
That's a thing? I've never hung out in a vestibule at 1 AM. Am I missing anything? Sounds like a Bauhaus song.
posted by NoMich at 6:45 PM on April 10, 2011
Correction: I've never lingered in a vestibule at 1 AM.
posted by NoMich at 6:47 PM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by NoMich at 6:47 PM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
All slang will stay around forever, fo' shizzle. Word.
NOT!
(I'm so sorry, the 90s took over me again.)
posted by ntartifex at 6:48 PM on April 10, 2011
NOT!
(I'm so sorry, the 90s took over me again.)
posted by ntartifex at 6:48 PM on April 10, 2011
the first rule of vestibule lingering club is don't be a clothesline.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 6:49 PM on April 10, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by furiousxgeorge at 6:49 PM on April 10, 2011 [4 favorites]
Ah, don't be a wurp.
posted by NoMich at 6:53 PM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by NoMich at 6:53 PM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
"Bank's Closed." LOL "Beat it, pillow case. Bank's closed. But if you come back tomorrow, maybe I'll let you make a deposit without a slip."
posted by katillathehun at 7:00 PM on April 10, 2011 [12 favorites]
posted by katillathehun at 7:00 PM on April 10, 2011 [12 favorites]
Bell Polisher—A young man addicted to lingering in vestibules at 1 a.m
That's a thing? I've never hung out in a vestibule at 1 AM. Am I missing anything? Sounds like a Bauhaus song.
Sounds more like someone's great grandmother discovered Urban Dictionary. "See also: Herbert Finkleberry of Coolidge High! 2 thumbs up. 397 thumbs down."
posted by katillathehun at 7:06 PM on April 10, 2011 [4 favorites]
That's a thing? I've never hung out in a vestibule at 1 AM. Am I missing anything? Sounds like a Bauhaus song.
Sounds more like someone's great grandmother discovered Urban Dictionary. "See also: Herbert Finkleberry of Coolidge High! 2 thumbs up. 397 thumbs down."
posted by katillathehun at 7:06 PM on April 10, 2011 [4 favorites]
Presumably a bell polisher lingers in a vestibule waiting to be let in and hence ringing the doorbell excessively.
posted by nasreddin at 7:11 PM on April 10, 2011 [9 favorites]
posted by nasreddin at 7:11 PM on April 10, 2011 [9 favorites]
The Flappers got turned into a cute fad but in the 20s they where FUCKING TERRIFYING.
Think of it this way, there are women who, in living memory, where kept from learning how to drive. Because that was wrong. Cause only monsters like flappers drove cars. It was not something Nice, Normal Girls do.
Slim dresses, smoking, driving cars, wearing pants, speaking freely, the flappers held the banner of the Future by saying they can have just as much fun as dudes and what's it to you? I'll smoke what I want, dance what I want and sleep with who I want and it's aint your business if I do. It's a new century, kid., and we're better for it.
It seems like a lesson the 20th century was doomed to repeat again and again.
posted by The Whelk at 7:25 PM on April 10, 2011 [33 favorites]
Think of it this way, there are women who, in living memory, where kept from learning how to drive. Because that was wrong. Cause only monsters like flappers drove cars. It was not something Nice, Normal Girls do.
Slim dresses, smoking, driving cars, wearing pants, speaking freely, the flappers held the banner of the Future by saying they can have just as much fun as dudes and what's it to you? I'll smoke what I want, dance what I want and sleep with who I want and it's aint your business if I do. It's a new century, kid., and we're better for it.
It seems like a lesson the 20th century was doomed to repeat again and again.
posted by The Whelk at 7:25 PM on April 10, 2011 [33 favorites]
And if you look at the media fo the time, there is a whole genre of "Dealing with former Jazz Baby 20s Liberals who can't deal with the new Button Down Family 50s"
When I think about America, I always think, are you with Auntie Mame or Gloria Upson?
posted by The Whelk at 7:35 PM on April 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
When I think about America, I always think, are you with Auntie Mame or Gloria Upson?
posted by The Whelk at 7:35 PM on April 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
Bell Polisher—A young man addicted to lingering in vestibules at 1 a.m giving people handjobs
FTFY
Also, did anyone else scroll through to see if 'harsh realm' was in there anywhere?
posted by "Elbows" O'Donoghue at 7:36 PM on April 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
FTFY
Also, did anyone else scroll through to see if 'harsh realm' was in there anywhere?
posted by "Elbows" O'Donoghue at 7:36 PM on April 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
Presumably a bell polisher lingers in a vestibule waiting to be let in and hence ringing the doorbell excessively.
That makes sense. I thought it was code for men who cruised other men. E.g., the equivalent of knob polisher. "Oh don't bother with him -- he's a certified bell polisher."
posted by treepour at 7:39 PM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
That makes sense. I thought it was code for men who cruised other men. E.g., the equivalent of knob polisher. "Oh don't bother with him -- he's a certified bell polisher."
posted by treepour at 7:39 PM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Sit down for one minute and we'll really get to know each other.
posted by The Whelk at 7:43 PM on April 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 7:43 PM on April 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
ntartifex - NOT!
(I'm so sorry, the 90s took over me again.)
The 1890s? http://www.tigermag.com/about-us/
And it pops up in popular literature of the 1900-1910s, too, particularly that directed towards teenagers! Not surprisingly, in girls' stories, it's usually the slangy, tomboy character who says it.
posted by ElaineMc at 7:46 PM on April 10, 2011 [5 favorites]
(I'm so sorry, the 90s took over me again.)
The 1890s? http://www.tigermag.com/about-us/
And it pops up in popular literature of the 1900-1910s, too, particularly that directed towards teenagers! Not surprisingly, in girls' stories, it's usually the slangy, tomboy character who says it.
posted by ElaineMc at 7:46 PM on April 10, 2011 [5 favorites]
My grandma used to say 'ducky'. Often. Now I'm inspired to revive it as 'heritage' slang. She used it most often in the context: "Well, isn't that just ducky!?" (i.e., well, isn't that just wonderful ...but sarcastic-like.) While we're on the subject, anybody remember a period of about two or three years when 'decent!' was the thing to say for 'cool'/'awesome'? Anybody? c. 1977 or so? Also, my grandfather used to say 'cluck' all the time, apparently. And, no, as you have probably already surmised, the marriage didn't last.
posted by Bartonius at 8:02 PM on April 10, 2011
posted by Bartonius at 8:02 PM on April 10, 2011
Bun Duster—See “Cake Eater”.
Cake Eater—See “Crumb Gobbler”
Crumb Gobbler—Slightly sissy tea hound.
You lost me at tea hound.
posted by sanko at 8:24 PM on April 10, 2011 [5 favorites]
Cake Eater—See “Crumb Gobbler”
Crumb Gobbler—Slightly sissy tea hound.
You lost me at tea hound.
posted by sanko at 8:24 PM on April 10, 2011 [5 favorites]
tea-hound:
Obsolete name for a ladies'-man (nsfw)
posted by furiousxgeorge at 8:26 PM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Obsolete name for a ladies'-man (nsfw)
posted by furiousxgeorge at 8:26 PM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
My mother (born 1925) has been known to use "ducky", usually in a sarcastic tone. And after years and years working in restaurants I can't count how many times I've heard a tired server say at the end of the night, "my dogs are barking", meaning "my feet ache". And I didn't know "lollygagging" was slang: I've heard (and used) that word, meaning "dawdling" or "idling", all my life.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 8:27 PM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by BitterOldPunk at 8:27 PM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Lollygagging is all my life.
posted by maxwelton at 8:29 PM on April 10, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by maxwelton at 8:29 PM on April 10, 2011 [6 favorites]
Lallygagger—A young man addicted to attempts at hallway spooning.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 8:31 PM on April 10, 2011
posted by furiousxgeorge at 8:31 PM on April 10, 2011
I can't hear that word without thinking of this: Lollygaggers!
posted by mogget at 8:44 PM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by mogget at 8:44 PM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Ah. A bit of googling reveals that "lallygag/lollygag" meaning "dawdling or idle horseplay" dates from around 1868, but "lallygag" was then used by flappers in the sense given in the OP's link. So it is both a real word AND flapper slang.
The More You Know
posted by BitterOldPunk at 8:50 PM on April 10, 2011
The More You Know
posted by BitterOldPunk at 8:50 PM on April 10, 2011
Boob Tickler—Girl who entertains father's out-of-town customers.
what
Also, "mad money" is in there as "Carfare home if she has a fight with her escort." That's still in use.
posted by Rock Steady at 8:56 PM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
what
Also, "mad money" is in there as "Carfare home if she has a fight with her escort." That's still in use.
posted by Rock Steady at 8:56 PM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
"carfare" was often a subtle note for prostitution, Girls sitting aside who just needed a little "cabfare" home.
posted by The Whelk at 9:01 PM on April 10, 2011
posted by The Whelk at 9:01 PM on April 10, 2011
There are several of these that I hear regularly. Swan (v), cat's pajamas, tomato, crasher, goofy, dumb Dora, for example. "Dud" is widely used in my circle of friends in the sense that the flappers used it, although I don't think too many others say that. Some of these are way too cool to let die, though, now that I've heard them. Embalmer may have meant bootlegger before, but now it can surely mean a bartender, or someone who brought a handle of liquor to a party. Johnnie Walker, a guy who never calls a cab? Hilarious. And "static" in the sense of a conversation that means nothing? That's both awesome and illuminating, to see how quickly radio terms started flying around, considering that the first commercial radio stations only started operating in the 20s.
posted by norm at 9:10 PM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by norm at 9:10 PM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
i myself am partial to the cat's particulars, having only heard of its pajamas until now.
posted by timory at 9:15 PM on April 10, 2011
posted by timory at 9:15 PM on April 10, 2011
'Swan around' is still current.
Oh! so it was the flappers in the 20s, not the military in the 40s - too late to put the answer in now though.
posted by unliteral at 9:29 PM on April 10, 2011
Oh! so it was the flappers in the 20s, not the military in the 40s - too late to put the answer in now though.
posted by unliteral at 9:29 PM on April 10, 2011
Anyone remember that episode of The Cosby Show in which Cliff's parents teach Rudy and Theo the Harlem slang of the 1920s? (1930s?) I'll be some of the terms match up. Trying to find a clip of that somewhere.
posted by zardoz at 9:43 PM on April 10, 2011
posted by zardoz at 9:43 PM on April 10, 2011
Man, this is a treasure trove of sock puppet aliases!
posted by KingEdRa at 10:43 PM on April 10, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by KingEdRa at 10:43 PM on April 10, 2011 [6 favorites]
That's a thing? I've never hung out in a vestibule at 1 AM. Am I missing anything? Sounds like a Bauhaus song.
It started in the vestibule, it ended in the hospital....
This slang is awesome. I love torrents of strange slang, the hipper and wilder the better. Even if it's out of date. Even if it was never in date.
I've started hearing kids use slang I don't know, which is a sign i'm getting old. And i've heard people saying things like 'LOL' and 'pwned' in real life, which is even worse.
Monog—A young person of either sex who is goofy about only one person at a time
Whangdoodle—Jazz-band music.
Dewdropper—Young man who does not work, and sleeps all day.
I like this.
Cake Eater is the TV Tropes term for a guy who likes older women. I think it's Japanese?
Cellar Smeller—A young man who always turns up where liquor is to be had without cost.
I know so many of these people. Mostly at art openings.
Static—Conversations that mean nothing.
This is perfect.
I own the Dictionary of American Slang, mostly 'cause it was cheap and i really like an album with the same name. Figure it's worth flipping through for this sort of thing
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 10:49 PM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
It started in the vestibule, it ended in the hospital....
This slang is awesome. I love torrents of strange slang, the hipper and wilder the better. Even if it's out of date. Even if it was never in date.
I've started hearing kids use slang I don't know, which is a sign i'm getting old. And i've heard people saying things like 'LOL' and 'pwned' in real life, which is even worse.
Monog—A young person of either sex who is goofy about only one person at a time
Whangdoodle—Jazz-band music.
Dewdropper—Young man who does not work, and sleeps all day.
I like this.
Cake Eater is the TV Tropes term for a guy who likes older women. I think it's Japanese?
Cellar Smeller—A young man who always turns up where liquor is to be had without cost.
I know so many of these people. Mostly at art openings.
Static—Conversations that mean nothing.
This is perfect.
I own the Dictionary of American Slang, mostly 'cause it was cheap and i really like an album with the same name. Figure it's worth flipping through for this sort of thing
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 10:49 PM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
I use some of these sometimes, presumably they've been plugged into my brain over the years from reading.
posted by empyrean at 11:16 PM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by empyrean at 11:16 PM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
That's both awesome and illuminating, to see how quickly radio terms started flying around
I had the same thought! I've always been fascinated by the dynamics of how technical or other esoteric language makes its way into the common vocabulary.
Boob Tickler—Girl who entertains father's out-of-town customers.
what
In this case I think the "boob" is the out-of-town customer, not the girl's ticklish parts. Or maybe it's a double-entendre, but in the phrase the girl is the tickler, not the ticklee.
I'm totally lacking in the social context needed to understand this one:
Jane—A girl who meets you on the stoop.
As opposed to… inviting you up? Meeting you elsewhere? What is this supposed to suggest about her character?
posted by hattifattener at 12:07 AM on April 11, 2011
I had the same thought! I've always been fascinated by the dynamics of how technical or other esoteric language makes its way into the common vocabulary.
Boob Tickler—Girl who entertains father's out-of-town customers.
what
In this case I think the "boob" is the out-of-town customer, not the girl's ticklish parts. Or maybe it's a double-entendre, but in the phrase the girl is the tickler, not the ticklee.
I'm totally lacking in the social context needed to understand this one:
Jane—A girl who meets you on the stoop.
As opposed to… inviting you up? Meeting you elsewhere? What is this supposed to suggest about her character?
posted by hattifattener at 12:07 AM on April 11, 2011
anybody remember a period of about two or three years when 'decent!' was the thing to say for 'cool'/'awesome'?
I have only ever seen this usage in Achewood (which neither proves nor disproves its status as a real thing).
posted by ryanrs at 12:07 AM on April 11, 2011
I have only ever seen this usage in Achewood (which neither proves nor disproves its status as a real thing).
posted by ryanrs at 12:07 AM on April 11, 2011
"cool" is still cool!
That's one of the great linguistic mysteries of all time! By definition anything that comes from old people (parents, grandparents, etc.) is automatically uncool. And yet this term is handed down from generation to generation and preserved. Hip slangy language from parents should not be able to find purchase with the kids, yet "cool" does.
"Awesome" is another puzzler. I remember when that word was hopelessly old-fashioned and now it's use is completely normal. For those of you who are too old to remember or too young to have witnessed this, I have evidence of its relatively recent lameness. I was watching an episode of Who's the Boss recently where Tony Danza was about to go to a frat party. So he attempted to dress and act appropriately for the venue and while practicing used the word "awesome" in front of Alyssa Milano. She promptly made fun of him for using such an old-timey expression. The question is how did "awesome" become so acceptable again? I think I first noticed its widespread and non-ironic use in Dinosaur Comics but maybe it was already picking up steam before that?
Also, getting back on topic, did "petting" for these folks mean the same thing it did when I was younger?
posted by bfootdav at 12:37 AM on April 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
That's one of the great linguistic mysteries of all time! By definition anything that comes from old people (parents, grandparents, etc.) is automatically uncool. And yet this term is handed down from generation to generation and preserved. Hip slangy language from parents should not be able to find purchase with the kids, yet "cool" does.
"Awesome" is another puzzler. I remember when that word was hopelessly old-fashioned and now it's use is completely normal. For those of you who are too old to remember or too young to have witnessed this, I have evidence of its relatively recent lameness. I was watching an episode of Who's the Boss recently where Tony Danza was about to go to a frat party. So he attempted to dress and act appropriately for the venue and while practicing used the word "awesome" in front of Alyssa Milano. She promptly made fun of him for using such an old-timey expression. The question is how did "awesome" become so acceptable again? I think I first noticed its widespread and non-ironic use in Dinosaur Comics but maybe it was already picking up steam before that?
Also, getting back on topic, did "petting" for these folks mean the same thing it did when I was younger?
posted by bfootdav at 12:37 AM on April 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
Bees Knees (to some extent) and Party Crashing (though maybe not in the noun form, Crashing Party, itself rather awesome) did survive. Go flappers!
posted by effugas at 12:44 AM on April 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by effugas at 12:44 AM on April 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
That's one of the great linguistic mysteries of all time! By definition anything that comes from old people (parents, grandparents, etc.) is automatically uncool. And yet this term is handed down from generation to generation and preserved. Hip slangy language from parents should not be able to find purchase with the kids, yet "cool" does.
It fills a linguistic niche? Try rephrasing the second sentence you wrote without using cool. I guess you could say 'unfashionable', but that would imply people only cared about trends, which isn't always cool. You could say 'bad', but that implies a moral judgment. You could say 'old-fashioned', but some old-fashioned things go through periods of being cool.
Cool can me 'stylish and cutting edge' (the latest indie band PFork likes is cool) but it can also mean 'good and timeless' (Bob Dylan is still cool). It can mean okay/No Worries but also a milder form of 'awesome'.
There was some huge comment about how Fred Rogers was the 'last earnest man' and after him everything was 'cool'.
"Awesome" is another puzzler. I remember when that word was hopelessly old-fashioned and now it's use is completely normal. For those of you who are too old to remember or too young to have witnessed this, I have evidence of its relatively recent lameness. I was watching an episode of Who's the Boss recently where Tony Danza was about to go to a frat party. So he attempted to dress and act appropriately for the venue and while practicing used the word "awesome" in front of Alyssa Milano. She promptly made fun of him for using such an old-timey expression. The question is how did "awesome" become so acceptable again? I think I first noticed its widespread and non-ironic use in Dinosaur Comics but maybe it was already picking up steam before that?
I think it arose around the time geek culture decided to stop being cynical and go for Ninja Pirate Robot style awesomeness? Maybe connected to the new sincerity?
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 12:48 AM on April 11, 2011
It fills a linguistic niche? Try rephrasing the second sentence you wrote without using cool. I guess you could say 'unfashionable', but that would imply people only cared about trends, which isn't always cool. You could say 'bad', but that implies a moral judgment. You could say 'old-fashioned', but some old-fashioned things go through periods of being cool.
Cool can me 'stylish and cutting edge' (the latest indie band PFork likes is cool) but it can also mean 'good and timeless' (Bob Dylan is still cool). It can mean okay/No Worries but also a milder form of 'awesome'.
There was some huge comment about how Fred Rogers was the 'last earnest man' and after him everything was 'cool'.
"Awesome" is another puzzler. I remember when that word was hopelessly old-fashioned and now it's use is completely normal. For those of you who are too old to remember or too young to have witnessed this, I have evidence of its relatively recent lameness. I was watching an episode of Who's the Boss recently where Tony Danza was about to go to a frat party. So he attempted to dress and act appropriately for the venue and while practicing used the word "awesome" in front of Alyssa Milano. She promptly made fun of him for using such an old-timey expression. The question is how did "awesome" become so acceptable again? I think I first noticed its widespread and non-ironic use in Dinosaur Comics but maybe it was already picking up steam before that?
I think it arose around the time geek culture decided to stop being cynical and go for Ninja Pirate Robot style awesomeness? Maybe connected to the new sincerity?
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 12:48 AM on April 11, 2011
Heh, this dictionary reminds me of a heated argument I once witnessed, between my grandmother and her sister (both of whom, I'm quite sure, were far too discreet to be classified as "flappers" in the time), about who was "most alluring": Rudolph Valentino or Carlos Gardel. I may as well have been listening to a modern-day argument between a Justin Bieber fan and a Jonas Brothers fan.
Kids, hormones are nothing new...
posted by Skeptic at 1:00 AM on April 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Kids, hormones are nothing new...
posted by Skeptic at 1:00 AM on April 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
I distinctly remember "cool" making some kind of a resurgence in the early '90s. It hadn't been completely out of vogue, but it wasn't the Universal Term of Approval that it became after that.
posted by hattifattener at 1:03 AM on April 11, 2011
posted by hattifattener at 1:03 AM on April 11, 2011
I still love that Harlan Ellison has a rant about hipsters.
In a book published in the 50s.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 1:05 AM on April 11, 2011
In a book published in the 50s.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 1:05 AM on April 11, 2011
i myself am partial to the cat's particulars, having only heard of its pajamas until now.
You've obviously never read any of the adventures of Bertie Wooster, who, like his fellow members of the Drones Club, used the expressions "bee's knees" and "cat's pajamas" frequently and with relish.
posted by Skeptic at 1:13 AM on April 11, 2011
You've obviously never read any of the adventures of Bertie Wooster, who, like his fellow members of the Drones Club, used the expressions "bee's knees" and "cat's pajamas" frequently and with relish.
posted by Skeptic at 1:13 AM on April 11, 2011
The Flappers got turned into a cute fad but in the 20s they where FUCKING TERRIFYING
My grandmother was headstrong girl in the 1920s. She was smart, sassy and determined to earn her own way. She bobbed her hair, wore lipstick and drove a T. In the South. Coming from privilege. Shock ensued.
At her university, a random fellow asked her soon-to-be fiancé "Is Hername fast?"
posted by likeso at 2:17 AM on April 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
My grandmother was headstrong girl in the 1920s. She was smart, sassy and determined to earn her own way. She bobbed her hair, wore lipstick and drove a T. In the South. Coming from privilege. Shock ensued.
At her university, a random fellow asked her soon-to-be fiancé "Is Hername fast?"
posted by likeso at 2:17 AM on April 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
The 1890s? http://www.tigermag.com/about-us/
You should have added "SIKE!" to that.
posted by ntartifex at 4:26 AM on April 11, 2011
You should have added "SIKE!" to that.
posted by ntartifex at 4:26 AM on April 11, 2011
i'd linger in her vestibule.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 4:45 AM on April 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 4:45 AM on April 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
I distinctly remember "cool" making some kind of a resurgence in the early '90s. It hadn't been completely out of vogue, but it wasn't the Universal Term of Approval that it became after that.
Yeah, "cool" went through a fairly shakey phase in the 80's, when the ironic use of old beatnik/hippy slang was an affectation..
posted by ovvl at 4:50 AM on April 11, 2011
Yeah, "cool" went through a fairly shakey phase in the 80's, when the ironic use of old beatnik/hippy slang was an affectation..
posted by ovvl at 4:50 AM on April 11, 2011
Yeah, "cool" went through a fairly shakey phase in the 80's, when the ironic use of old beatnik/hippy slang was an affectation..
Mm, and that was also when Valleyspeak was on the rise... which then led to sarcastic responses to how've you been? such as "Tubular".
posted by likeso at 5:13 AM on April 11, 2011
Mm, and that was also when Valleyspeak was on the rise... which then led to sarcastic responses to how've you been? such as "Tubular".
posted by likeso at 5:13 AM on April 11, 2011
I think the cool from my generation (born: 1978) was subtly different than the cool of my parents' generation (late/post baby boom). For us, cool was often a generic positive, like somewhat less emphatic awesome. I think we were still aware of some of the earlier connotations of emotionally unflappability (as in "cool cat" or "cool customer", although we wouldn't use those particular phrases) or of hipness/non-square-ness (as in "I'm cool with that," or "Relax, he's cool,") but it's primary usage was just of general positivity.
Still, the fact that it's retained anything close to it's old meaning, while still remaining, well "cool" amongst the younger generations for as long as it has is pretty remarkable. Compare with hep/hip which had many of the same meanings, but was something that I never would have said as a kid.
Now I think that awesome in the old-fashioned sense, was very different than it was in the 90s and later. As a kid and since, it gets used as a very emphatic positive, indicating something worth getting excited about. In its older sense, I think it's more akin to awe-inspiring, indicating not simply something that gets you excited, but rather something that would strike you speechless. In that old sense, it was a word to end sentences with. (If you go back a few centuries, I think it may not even have any positive connotations at all. One could be struck with awe by something terrible as easily as one could with something majestic.)
I have a toy hypothesis that many generations and subcultures adopte large numbers of new positive terms, many which start out with subtle distinctions, but as they stick around, they start to lose the subtle distinctions that gave rise to them, with people learning the new words as they're used, but missing out on the subtleties and just repeating them as generic positives. For example, by the time I learned the words awesome, radical, and bad, I had no knowledge of any distinction between them. They were interchangeable. But I don't think that's how they got started. I feel like the same thing has happened to more recent bits of slang like wicked and sweet.
I can't wait until somebody invents shway so I can watch its evolution along these lines.
posted by ErWenn at 5:27 AM on April 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Still, the fact that it's retained anything close to it's old meaning, while still remaining, well "cool" amongst the younger generations for as long as it has is pretty remarkable. Compare with hep/hip which had many of the same meanings, but was something that I never would have said as a kid.
Now I think that awesome in the old-fashioned sense, was very different than it was in the 90s and later. As a kid and since, it gets used as a very emphatic positive, indicating something worth getting excited about. In its older sense, I think it's more akin to awe-inspiring, indicating not simply something that gets you excited, but rather something that would strike you speechless. In that old sense, it was a word to end sentences with. (If you go back a few centuries, I think it may not even have any positive connotations at all. One could be struck with awe by something terrible as easily as one could with something majestic.)
I have a toy hypothesis that many generations and subcultures adopte large numbers of new positive terms, many which start out with subtle distinctions, but as they stick around, they start to lose the subtle distinctions that gave rise to them, with people learning the new words as they're used, but missing out on the subtleties and just repeating them as generic positives. For example, by the time I learned the words awesome, radical, and bad, I had no knowledge of any distinction between them. They were interchangeable. But I don't think that's how they got started. I feel like the same thing has happened to more recent bits of slang like wicked and sweet.
I can't wait until somebody invents shway so I can watch its evolution along these lines.
posted by ErWenn at 5:27 AM on April 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
You've obviously never read any of the adventures of Bertie Wooster, who, like his fellow members of the Drones Club, used the expressions "bee's knees" and "cat's pajamas" frequently and with relish.
of course i have! as i said, i'd heard of the cat's pajamas, but not the cat's particulars. and if bertie referred to those, maybe i just missed it. (sadly - how i love those books).
posted by timory at 5:45 AM on April 11, 2011
of course i have! as i said, i'd heard of the cat's pajamas, but not the cat's particulars. and if bertie referred to those, maybe i just missed it. (sadly - how i love those books).
posted by timory at 5:45 AM on April 11, 2011
Jane—A girl who meets you on the stoop.
... What is this supposed to suggest about her character?
posted by hattifattener
Perhaps that she's hiding you from her parents.
posted by StickyCarpet at 5:55 AM on April 11, 2011 [4 favorites]
... What is this supposed to suggest about her character?
posted by hattifattener
Perhaps that she's hiding you from her parents.
posted by StickyCarpet at 5:55 AM on April 11, 2011 [4 favorites]
Uh-huh, but back then, the very idea that a girl would meet you outside of her home, as opposed to having you enter her home and escort her outside (probably meeting parents/guardians en route), implies she is..er... Up For Things.
posted by likeso at 6:16 AM on April 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by likeso at 6:16 AM on April 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
I can't wait until somebody invents shway so I can watch its evolution along these lines.
ErWenn, stop trying to make "shway" happen! It's not going to happen!
posted by Rock Steady at 6:27 AM on April 11, 2011
ErWenn, stop trying to make "shway" happen! It's not going to happen!
posted by Rock Steady at 6:27 AM on April 11, 2011
I can't wait until somebody invents shway so I can watch its evolution along these lines.
ErWenn, stop trying to make "shway" happen! It's not going to happen!
Oh, it'll happen. Shway is streets ahead!
posted by Freon at 7:03 AM on April 11, 2011 [8 favorites]
ErWenn, stop trying to make "shway" happen! It's not going to happen!
Oh, it'll happen. Shway is streets ahead!
posted by Freon at 7:03 AM on April 11, 2011 [8 favorites]
Two Things:
One: "Ughewblughflah, hipsters! What a bunch of reprehensible fuckwi- oh.... it's from old times! *nods approvingly and smiles*"
Two: This slang was published in a magazine that, while directed to other flappers, still probably had some editing applied to it, right? Makes me wonder if there wasn't a realer, dirtier set of flapper slang and ideas that might be lost to the times because of decency standards in print.
posted by codacorolla at 7:28 AM on April 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
One: "Ughewblughflah, hipsters! What a bunch of reprehensible fuckwi- oh.... it's from old times! *nods approvingly and smiles*"
Two: This slang was published in a magazine that, while directed to other flappers, still probably had some editing applied to it, right? Makes me wonder if there wasn't a realer, dirtier set of flapper slang and ideas that might be lost to the times because of decency standards in print.
posted by codacorolla at 7:28 AM on April 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Oh, it'll happen. Shway is streets ahead!
NO. Streets ahead is streets ahead.
posted by thsmchnekllsfascists at 8:32 AM on April 11, 2011
NO. Streets ahead is streets ahead.
posted by thsmchnekllsfascists at 8:32 AM on April 11, 2011
Dude.
When I was in high school ('88-'92) I called pretty much everybody "dude" totally unthinkingly (why yes, this was in southern California), until my VERY PREGNANT teacher gave me the evil eye and said something to the effect of "epersonae, I am NOT. A. Dude." I was more careful about it after that, although to this day I tend to call people "dude" when I'm not thinking about it.
posted by epersonae at 9:05 AM on April 11, 2011
When I was in high school ('88-'92) I called pretty much everybody "dude" totally unthinkingly (why yes, this was in southern California), until my VERY PREGNANT teacher gave me the evil eye and said something to the effect of "epersonae, I am NOT. A. Dude." I was more careful about it after that, although to this day I tend to call people "dude" when I'm not thinking about it.
posted by epersonae at 9:05 AM on April 11, 2011
Scandaler—A dance floor fullback. The interior of a dreadnaught hat, Piccadilly shoes with open plumbing, size 13.
Anybody got a dictionary to translate this dictionary with?
posted by darksasami at 10:33 AM on April 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Anybody got a dictionary to translate this dictionary with?
posted by darksasami at 10:33 AM on April 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Skeptic: " Kids, hormones are nothing new..."
Except that your grandmother and her sister had infinitely better taste than kids today.
The flappers' dictionary does continue one trend: that I will love everything having to do with flappers.
Strike Breaker—A young woman who goes with her friend’s “Steady” while there is a coolness.
Damn, that'sawesome monkey's eyebrows.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:34 AM on April 11, 2011
Except that your grandmother and her sister had infinitely better taste than kids today.
The flappers' dictionary does continue one trend: that I will love everything having to do with flappers.
Strike Breaker—A young woman who goes with her friend’s “Steady” while there is a coolness.
Damn, that's
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:34 AM on April 11, 2011
A bit offtopic but... when I was 16 (1988) our high school used 'awesome' a lot, and also used it's shortened form - just the first syllable. I will never forget the day my friend and I had an argument over the spelling of that monosyllable.
Me: "Awes!"
He: "Aus!"
Clearly I remain correct.
posted by easement1 at 10:36 AM on April 11, 2011
Me: "Awes!"
He: "Aus!"
Clearly I remain correct.
posted by easement1 at 10:36 AM on April 11, 2011
Just before my grandmother (The Broad), we were going through very old photos. Red hair and lipstick (just like in her eighties), bobbed hair, stockings rolled to show her great legs. "Grandma! You were a flapper!"
"Of course I was. What, do you think I'd have been a goddamned Gibson Girl?!?"
I still miss her, and I will NEVER be a goddamned Gibson Girl.
posted by cyndigo at 11:01 AM on April 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
"Of course I was. What, do you think I'd have been a goddamned Gibson Girl?!?"
I still miss her, and I will NEVER be a goddamned Gibson Girl.
posted by cyndigo at 11:01 AM on April 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
I don't see the origin of the word "flapper". According to someone who would know, "flappers" wore galoshes with the tops open, which literally made a flapping noise. That was never part of my mental image of a flapper, but if you look up historical photos, you'll see it was very much part of the look. All the dictionary says is "flap - girl".
posted by AppleSeed at 11:13 AM on April 11, 2011
posted by AppleSeed at 11:13 AM on April 11, 2011
Me: "Awes!"
He: "Aus!"
Clearly I remain correct.
The first syllable of "awesome" is simply "awe". You both lose.
posted by owtytrof at 2:26 PM on April 11, 2011
He: "Aus!"
Clearly I remain correct.
The first syllable of "awesome" is simply "awe". You both lose.
posted by owtytrof at 2:26 PM on April 11, 2011
Clearly, it's spelled oss.
posted by ErWenn at 4:20 PM on April 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by ErWenn at 4:20 PM on April 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yeah, but cool seems to have be redefined by 4chan for the younger generation. That seems to be the cultural touchstone for that word, now.
posted by empath at 10:23 PM on April 11, 2011
posted by empath at 10:23 PM on April 11, 2011
Editor's Note: The original newspaper version and an earlier online version of this article incorrectly located Abbotsford as west of Vancouver. This online version has been corrected.
Oh Globe and Mail, don't ever change.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 10:28 PM on April 11, 2011
Oh Globe and Mail, don't ever change.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 10:28 PM on April 11, 2011
Oops, wrong thread. Flagged.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 10:30 PM on April 11, 2011
posted by [expletive deleted] at 10:30 PM on April 11, 2011
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posted by furiousxgeorge at 6:11 PM on April 10, 2011 [1 favorite]