The anthropomorphic dream will die hard, and always return. All of this was so misguided, and so partial in its views of both what language is and what non-human animals are.What is this crap? Why is it a dream and why is it misguided? There is no scientifically valid reason to believe that humans are somehow fundamentally 'different' from other animals then there is in believing earth is the center of the universe.
I happen to be a linguist. And you happen to fundamentally misunderstand my point.Well, how can anyone know what your point is when you don't even bother trying to express it?
Show me another animal species that has been able to systematically and massively manipulate its own environments, social structures, etc., on anything like the scale (or time scale) that humans have done and then get back to me.It's not clear what this has to do with your initial comment, since you didn't define what you meant by 'anthropomorphic' or what 'partial' meant when it came to understanding what humans and animals were.
(Oh, and my reasons for saying we are different are indeed "scientifically valid." I'd argue they are scientifically "proven," in fact. We are still animals like any other, except that we evolved the ability to think about the distinction.)Right, I said we were 'different' just not 'fundamentally different' from other animals, especially large mammals. I mean we're taller, have less hair, physically much weaker, we walk differently and our language faculties are more advanced. But the question is whether our ability to use language is small difference like the other physical differences, or if it makes us fundamentally a different type of thing.
We were in the sunlight again and I was facing her, about 4 feet from the fence. She began pacing back and forth. I was able to look at her. She was both bigger and smaller than I imagined. Only one inch taller than me, at five feet, but twice as heavy. And there were other more obvious differences. Before I had time to lose myself in observation, SLAM! The cage before me shook violently. Metal on metal. I was being tested. I startled, but didn't make a sound. [...]The best part of this is that after I went for it, she took it to the next level. She stared at me, contemplated things for a full minute and then sparked up as if she had a brilliant idea. She stood up, came toward the fence again and then broke the stick in half. Now, with a much shorter piece in hand, she stuck her arm through the bars, first close to her, but slowly extending her arm and the stick toward me and eventually putting the stick within my grasp again, with her even longer reach than before.
Next, she picked up a foot-long stick from the yard. She stuck one end towards me through the hole in the fence. I asked Penny if I should reach it. She kindly told me not to reach towards the gorilla or touch the fence. She also told me I was being tested again; the gorillas reach was a lot longer than she was letting on. So I remained sitting quietly, seemingly uninterested.
Eventually the stick was extended to me, within my easy reach. I went to take it. Only to find that the offer was amusingly redacted. Darn. I bet I'm not the first to fall for that one.
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posted by Renoroc at 2:54 PM on August 20, 2011