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The word cocksucker does get thrown around a lot
October 19, 2011 7:04 PM   Subscribe

Wes Anderson: I knew Bill Murray had my back from the first time I saw him standing on top of that rock, wearing a cowboy hat. The director and part of the cast of the Royal Tenenbaums talked about the movie at the New York Film Festival, where there was a special 10th anniversary screening. They had a lot to say about Gene Hackman, mostly of the 'well, at least he didn't kill any of us' variety.
posted by helloknitty (64 comments total) 36 users marked this as a favorite

 
Now if that film had cast Diana Rigg...
posted by sammyo at 7:13 PM on October 19, 2011 [2 favorites]


So many brilliant actors, and then that praying mantis in a blonde wig.
posted by pxe2000 at 7:14 PM on October 19, 2011 [2 favorites]


You know how Roger Ebert felt about North?

Yeah, like that.

Though to give due credit: the "Judy Is A Punk" sequence was terrific.
posted by Trurl at 7:16 PM on October 19, 2011 [2 favorites]


Poor Anderson turned red and shrank his in his chair, clearing not wanting the audience to perceive that the cast and crew didn’t enjoy Hackman. --- He what?
posted by crunchland at 7:18 PM on October 19, 2011


I was introduced to The Royal Tenenbaums the week after I graduated high school by my first girlfriend. I've only watched it a few times since, but the confluence of tennis, depression, and absurdity hit me in a way only equaled by my reading of Infinite Jest five years later. It's fucking great. Anyways, it's interesting to read about the mediator role of Murray between Hackman and Anderson during filming. I wonder how much of a role that played in Murray becoming a future Wes Anderson protagonist.
posted by Dr. Christ at 7:26 PM on October 19, 2011


Bravo, it was very Wes Andersonian of you to bury the interesting material in the last link.
posted by peeedro at 7:36 PM on October 19, 2011 [7 favorites]


Thanks for this. It's a great film and I hope it outlasts the tiresome hate that people feel obligated to pour on it.
posted by shakespeherian at 7:52 PM on October 19, 2011 [5 favorites]


Regardless of how each of us feels about The Royal Tenenbaums, I hope we can all at least agree that Bill Murray is a mensch.
posted by strangely stunted trees at 8:01 PM on October 19, 2011 [10 favorites]


The Royal Tenenbaums is one of my "litmus test" films...if a new acquaintance expresses admiration for it, I know this is a potential new friend. If it goes the other way and they express a disliking for it, let's just say I don't overextend myself trying to find common ground.

As to Gene Hackman being a difficult person, maybe he's just reached the stage in life where he's not willing to suffer fools, and he's so old that everyone seems to be a fool, at least within his frame of reference.

Or maybe he's just an asshole.
posted by motown missile at 8:05 PM on October 19, 2011 [4 favorites]


Gene Hackman is forgiven for everything for all time because of The Conversation.
posted by shakespeherian at 8:10 PM on October 19, 2011 [15 favorites]


I love this movie so much I can't understand how anyone else doesn't.
posted by Bonzai at 8:16 PM on October 19, 2011 [15 favorites]


Gene Hackman is great in that movie. He's great in nearly everything.
posted by The World Famous at 8:18 PM on October 19, 2011 [6 favorites]


He isn't an asshole. He's just sort of a son of a bitch.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 8:32 PM on October 19, 2011 [33 favorites]


The more I hear Bill Murray talk the more I want to hang out with him.
posted by dazed_one at 8:33 PM on October 19, 2011 [10 favorites]


I wonder how much of a role that played in Murray becoming a future Wes Anderson protagonist.

I'm guessing not much, since he had already been in Rushmore and clearly had a previous relationship with Anderson.

Also: He's Bill Fucking Murray.
posted by sonika at 8:36 PM on October 19, 2011 [2 favorites]


Don't Talk to Me About Gene Hackman
posted by flarbuse at 8:59 PM on October 19, 2011


Also: He's Bill Fucking Murray.

Bill Groundhog-Day-Ghost-Bustin'-Ass Murray
posted by mrgrimm at 9:24 PM on October 19, 2011 [1 favorite]


My favorite bit: "The part of Mordecai, eventually portrayed by a hawk in the film, was originally conceived for Jason Schwartzman."

lol
posted by mrgrimm at 9:26 PM on October 19, 2011 [13 favorites]


I like how the OP linked to the Wikipedia entries of Murray and Hackman.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:37 PM on October 19, 2011


I don't get to throw this card out there this often but I was there and Bill Murray didn't disappoint.

Also, apparently Luke Wilson was enamored of Ms. Paltrow, to whom I have to give credit as my buddy and I figured she was the last actor who would show up (Bill Murray was considered a lock as Bill Murray is that awesome).
posted by slapshot57 at 9:49 PM on October 19, 2011 [1 favorite]


People hate The Royal Tenenbaums? As part of a family that's too smart for our own good, I love it.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 9:51 PM on October 19, 2011 [1 favorite]


The Conversation is undeniably one of the greatest films ever made, featuring not only Hackman but John Cazale and Harrison Ford.

The dude was also in The French Connection, Unforgiven and The Quick and the Dead.

But yeah, Royal Tenenbaums was pretty good too.
posted by Ad hominem at 10:07 PM on October 19, 2011 [3 favorites]


It's the same film over and over, but I love that film so god damned much. Agreed with the litmus test above.
posted by cavalier at 10:17 PM on October 19, 2011


“Gene threatened to kill me today.’ Kill you? You’re in the union, he can’t kill you. ‘Gene threatened to set fire to all of us.’ [I’d say], it’s a union shoot! He can’t set anyone on fire!”

The advantages of being part of organized labor are many and varied.
posted by Winnemac at 10:36 PM on October 19, 2011 [12 favorites]


Wes Anderson is one of my "litmus test" filmmakers. If someone obsesses over one of his films to the extent that they will dismiss other human beings who lack a similar zeal for said film, I know that they haven't seen all that many films.
posted by mek at 11:05 PM on October 19, 2011 [10 favorites]


RT is a great movie. That line about Mordecai is fantastic.

Also, I love my parents and all but I want Bill Murray to adopt me.
posted by arcticseal at 11:14 PM on October 19, 2011 [2 favorites]


Q: Is it possible to dislike Bill Murray?
A: No. No, it is not.
posted by littlerobothead at 11:29 PM on October 19, 2011 [5 favorites]


You know that urban legend about Bill Murray? Where he comes up behind you, covers your eyes and says "Guess who?" and when you see it is the awesome Bill Murray, he says "No one will ever believe you!"

I think any urban legend can be improved by adding Bill Murray to it.

"There was a lady who boarded an elevator in Vegas. Bill Murray walked in with his pit bull. He said 'Sit!' and the lady immediately sat down. Bill Murray smiled and said 'No one will ever believe you.'"

"My sister's friend's cousin was making out with her boyfriend in his Camaro on Lover's Lane when they we captured by the hippie cannibals who have nude rituals in Carbon Canyon. The couple was dragged out into a drum circle. In the middle of the circle was a older man in a cloak of eagle feathers. It was Bill Murray, wearing a codpiece decorated in shell and feathers with the logo of the White Sox. Somehow the girlfriend manage to escape. As she ran gasping up the chaparral-covered hillside, she heard him call out 'No one will ever believe you!'"
posted by potsmokinghippieoverlord at 11:54 PM on October 19, 2011 [7 favorites]


we = were. No one will ever believe me. :-/
posted by potsmokinghippieoverlord at 11:55 PM on October 19, 2011


I have loved watching Bill Murray all my life. I mean, the guy is incredible in so many movies. But it was that one little episode in Zombieland that somehow transcended even all of that and left him as somehow archetypally cool in the way that very few people ever become.
posted by darkstar at 11:58 PM on October 19, 2011 [11 favorites]


I have never been able to get on board the Wes Anderson train. I've see Tenebaums. I've seen Rushmore. I've seen Darjeeling Limited. I made it about 20% through Life Aquatic. I find them to be mostly masturbatory snoozefests. And I say this as someone who loves indie, hipster-y, introspective/esoteric films on balance.

In Darjeeling Limited, the most interesting thing in the entire movie was the luggage. The films all seem to go nowhere, do nothing, with the vague assertion that they're attempting to analyze some microcosm of the human condition and it just grates at me every time. It's like he went through every scene and said "this isn't 'Wes' enough yet... how about now?"

I do love Bill Murray, though. Zombieland's "maybe Garfield" as his one regret made me laugh so very hard.

And now I'm looking for the best way to get a hold of The Conversation, since I generally trust the Blue's overwhelming support for a film.
posted by disillusioned at 12:07 AM on October 20, 2011 [1 favorite]


Disillusioned: have you seen Fantastic Mr. Fox?
posted by Pruitt-Igoe at 12:17 AM on October 20, 2011 [1 favorite]


Fantastic Mr.Fox is simply a Wes Anderson movie with puppets Pruitt-Igoe. It's a great Wes Anderson movie, but if you don't like Wes Anderson movies, then the puppets aren't going to change that :)
posted by pharm at 1:38 AM on October 20, 2011 [1 favorite]


Another, hell yeah, for The Royal Tenenbaums, here. And while we slightly derail to that awesome movie "The Conversation", I'm chipping in with that incredible soundtrack by David Shire.

On another note: I swear Coppola filmed the opening sequence in the park from above, because it has the basic shape of a record head.

Well, I'm glad I have that off my chest after 20+ years of quiet contemplation.
posted by ouke at 2:23 AM on October 20, 2011 [4 favorites]


Thanks for this. It's a great film and I hope it outlasts the tiresome hate that people feel obligated to pour on it

One reason people, including me, feel negatively about this film is sentiments like this: The Royal Tenenbaums is one of my "litmus test" films...if a new acquaintance expresses admiration for it, I know this is a potential new friend. If it goes the other way and they express a disliking for it, let's just say I don't overextend myself trying to find common ground.

Like you have some black splinter wedged in your soul if you can't join in all that fun.
posted by oneironaut at 4:09 AM on October 20, 2011 [3 favorites]


Wes Anderson is one of my "litmus test" filmmakers. If someone obsesses over one of his films to the extent that they will dismiss other human beings who lack a similar zeal for said film, I know that they haven't seen all that many films.

I'm not sure why disagreements about culture have to be branded as "hate". Personally I thought that the movie was smug, overly pleased with itself, over-written and a bit of a slog to get through but if you like it, fine. Not sure why that should brand me as pariah.
posted by octothorpe at 4:43 AM on October 20, 2011 [2 favorites]


The only reason The Conversation didn't win best picture was because Francis Ford Coppola also released The Godfather Part 2 the same year. Which is lunacy.
posted by shakespeherian at 5:32 AM on October 20, 2011 [3 favorites]


One reason people, including me, feel negatively about this film is sentiments like this: The Royal Tenenbaums is one of my "litmus test" films...if a new acquaintance expresses admiration for it, I know this is a potential new friend. If it goes the other way and they express a disliking for it, let's just say I don't overextend myself trying to find common ground.

I agree that that is silly, but it also seems like a silly reason to dislike a movie.
posted by shakespeherian at 5:41 AM on October 20, 2011


Maybe I should watch The Conversation again. It seemed like a shaggy dog story to me.
posted by DU at 5:45 AM on October 20, 2011 [2 favorites]


Gene Hackman is forgiven for everything for all time because of The Conversation.

Well, I'm guessing that you haven't had to work with him. Nearly the whole cast and crew having a grudge against someone a whole decade after the fact says something about him, don't you think?
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:47 AM on October 20, 2011 [1 favorite]


There is a list of films that I've seen and not particularly liked, but really, really want to like, and watch again every so often hoping that it will finally click. The Royal Tennenbaums is one of those and one of the very few where it finally happened the last time I saw it. I don't know why i didn't like it at first, and why I now do, but glad I kept coming back to it, and am looking forward to seeing it again in a year or so. The Conversation is another one on the list. Sorry to say that I haven't yet gotten to "getting it" yet. But it's on my reservation list at the library and I'll give it another go in 6 months or so.
posted by marsha56 at 5:59 AM on October 20, 2011


“I noticed early on so I started asking you to come be there. I remember, there was a scene where Gene goes for a walk in the park and I looked up on the top of this rock and Bill was standing with a cowboy hat watching the set."

Sweet Jesus I love Bill Murray.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 6:02 AM on October 20, 2011 [4 favorites]


Nearly the whole cast and crew having a grudge against someone a whole decade

After reading the article, I wouldn't characterize their memories as a collective grudge. They seem to respect him a great deal, even if they feel that he was difficult to work with.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 6:28 AM on October 20, 2011


Inspired by the "movies to watch in black and white" post here several months ago, I watched "The Conversation" with the color turned all the way down on my TV.

I highly recommend doing this.
posted by middleclasstool at 6:38 AM on October 20, 2011 [1 favorite]


Original post about watching b&w
posted by middleclasstool at 6:41 AM on October 20, 2011 [1 favorite]


Yeah, to be clear Murray, Huston, and Paltrow all spoke of what a wonderful actor he was but it was clear they considered him their grumpy uncle on that set.

But 20 minutes before Murray called him a cocksucker, he responded to Wes Anderson calling him a bear with "Look, Gene's one of the greatest American actors out there and we were thrilled to have him. Why did I say American right there? that was weird..."
posted by slapshot57 at 7:19 AM on October 20, 2011


Checking back in on this thread makes me want to see The Conversation again so bad. Gone are the days when I could show that movie to someone and have them be genuinely surprised, because I've already held everyone down and made them watch it. Just utterly fantastic in every detail.
posted by littlerobothead at 7:30 AM on October 20, 2011


And now I'm looking for the best way to get a hold of The Conversation, since I generally trust the Blue's overwhelming support for a film.

If you can wait five days, it's being released on Blu-Ray.
posted by pardonyou? at 8:27 AM on October 20, 2011


He keeps employing Angelica Huston. I like his movies anyway, but that just makes me love him.
posted by slimepuppy at 9:04 AM on October 20, 2011 [1 favorite]


Blazecock Pileon: "After reading the article, I wouldn't characterize their memories as a collective grudge. They seem to respect him a great deal, even if they feel that he was difficult to work with."

That was my take too. Difficult but worth it.
posted by Bonzai at 9:20 AM on October 20, 2011


So this post has had me Youtubing around for Bill Murray bits, and I stumbled across Quick Change, his underrated directorial debut, in its entirety.
posted by Iridic at 9:49 AM on October 20, 2011 [2 favorites]


Maybe I should watch The Conversation again. It seemed like a shaggy dog story to me.

Ditto. I will join the various pariahs and say I didn't like it much.

I have never been able to get on board the Wes Anderson train. I've see Tenebaums. I've seen Rushmore. I've seen Darjeeling Limited. I made it about 20% through Life Aquatic. I find them to be mostly masturbatory snoozefests.

Ah, but have you seen Bottle Rocket? (or his IKEA ad?) That is still my favorite of the bunch. Owen Wilson is sublime.

I find Wes Anderson much more enjoyable the smaller the budget.

And if you liked the movie but haven't seen the original short, ^^^^)
posted by mrgrimm at 10:40 AM on October 20, 2011


Heh. This is funny to me because I encountered The Royal Tenenbaums after I'd seen just about everything else in my video store (yeah, back in the day), and desperate for something new, grabbed it and made for the counter. The bored clerks were ecstatic when they found out I'd never seen it before. "What? This Gene Hackman movie?" Little did I know what I was in for (obviously). Love it, love it, love it. That being said, I don't watch it very often.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 3:47 PM on October 20, 2011


Every one of you that has gone gaga over Bill Murray probably has not seen his shitty films. He has 45+ movies. I've had to sit through a lot of them in preparation for a pub quiz competition around his movies.

True, there's Ghostbusters, and Groundhog's Day, and Zombieland.

But, there's also Garfield, Charlie's Angels, and Where the Buffalo Roam.

And he's a kind of a jerk. And not always the lovable kind.
posted by FJT at 5:11 PM on October 20, 2011 [1 favorite]


So this post has had me Youtubing around for Bill Murray bits, and I stumbled across Quick Change, his underrated directorial debut, in its entirety.

Oh God, Quick Change! The first and only movie that literally had me rolling in my living room floor laughing. Oh, my sides! :D
posted by darkstar at 7:05 PM on October 20, 2011


But, there's also Garfield, Charlie's Angels, and Where the Buffalo Roam. --- Don't forget Scrooged.
posted by crunchland at 7:09 PM on October 20, 2011


And he's a kind of a jerk. And not always the lovable kind.
Obviously FJT is really Gene Hackman.
posted by FreezBoy at 7:29 PM on October 20, 2011


Aw, Scrooged is a sentimental favourite. Carol Kane with the toaster? C'mon.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 8:46 PM on October 20, 2011 [2 favorites]


Scrooged is a must-watch every holiday season around here.
posted by mek at 11:27 PM on October 20, 2011


I fucking hate bill murrary, btw
posted by PinkMoose at 11:42 PM on October 20, 2011


Duly noted.
posted by Optamystic at 3:05 AM on October 21, 2011


One reason people, including me, feel negatively about this film is sentiments like this: The Royal Tenenbaums is one of my "litmus test" films...if a new acquaintance expresses admiration for it, I know this is a potential new friend. If it goes the other way and they express a disliking for it, let's just say I don't overextend myself trying to find common ground.

Really? Having common interests in things like, say, movies makes you feel negatively about specific movies if someone regards those specific movies as being useful markers as to whether or not someone has a similar sense of humor or maybe likes some of the same things?

How interesting.
posted by motown missile at 3:08 AM on October 21, 2011


And while we slightly derail to that awesome movie "The Conversation", I'm chipping in with that incredible soundtrack by David Shire.

@ouke Thanks for reminding me about The Conversation score. Never been one for novelty ringtones, but I may just have to upload this song to my phone.
posted by wensink at 8:25 AM on October 21, 2011


Where the Buffalo Roam is fantastic. Peter Boyle as Dr. Lazlo. C'mon.
posted by mrgrimm at 8:49 AM on October 21, 2011


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