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Televisual journalists report forthcoming same-sex nuptuals on Conan
November 3, 2011 2:23 PM   Subscribe


 
Honest question: was there a press release from Conan's people using the phrase "push the envelope?"
posted by Sticherbeast at 2:28 PM on November 3, 2011 [11 favorites]


I hear he's about to push the envelope on late night television.
posted by MustardTent at 2:28 PM on November 3, 2011 [3 favorites]


All together now...
posted by prinado at 2:28 PM on November 3, 2011 [75 favorites]


I have no idea how Conan O'Brien got all these same-sex marriages wedged into these envelopes, or why.
posted by Copronymus at 2:28 PM on November 3, 2011 [29 favorites]


Even if there was a press release, it never fails to shock me how often the media will just recite from releases word for word -- and in the cases where they do deviate, they almost always wind up screwing up the details, so really you don't win either way.
posted by hermitosis at 2:29 PM on November 3, 2011 [7 favorites]


Oh my god, I so hope that the grooms get married at an altar made from a gigantic prop envelope, which they then proceed to push down the aisle as they parade offstage. SOMEBODY GET ON THIS, STAT!
posted by phunniemee at 2:30 PM on November 3, 2011 [9 favorites]


I hear he's about to push the envelope on late night television.

Dammit, MustardTent, that was gonna be MY comment!
posted by grubi at 2:30 PM on November 3, 2011


Metafilter may be about to push the envelope on possibly pushing an envelope on the reporting of potential envelope pushing on late night television
posted by Blasdelb at 2:30 PM on November 3, 2011 [4 favorites]


craigyferg is my late night host of choice (sometimes i'll cheat on him for jimmy fallon) - but this is downright awesome.

also, i love anytime someone points this absurdity out - jon stewart is really good at it too - just point out that it's all a script that everyone follows.
posted by nadawi at 2:31 PM on November 3, 2011 [1 favorite]


So did Conan put out a press release that they are reading off word-for-word, or was it some sort of crazy Focus on the Family thing alerting stations?
posted by mathowie at 2:31 PM on November 3, 2011


So it's like when Hank Kingsley got married on The Larry Sanders Show, only with two dudes.

Will Alex Trebek be officiating?
posted by Sys Rq at 2:32 PM on November 3, 2011 [2 favorites]


Our Useless News Media.
posted by dirigibleman at 2:32 PM on November 3, 2011


Even if there was a press release, it never fails to shock me how often the media will just recite from releases word for word -- and in the cases where they do deviate, they almost always wind up screwing up the details, so really you don't win either way.

Back in 1989 I used to do the 5PM news on CFUV, UVic's campus radio station. At that time (this is pre-Internet, pre web, almost pre computer) we got wire service printouts on a dot matrix printer, and I would choose reports relevant to the show and actually rewrite them.

I was always stunned when newsreaders on local and national television would repeat the wire stories word-for-word.
posted by KokuRyu at 2:33 PM on November 3, 2011 [1 favorite]


It's funny because

RICK
RICK
RICK
WE NEED TO GET AN ENVELOPE
posted by PapaLobo at 2:34 PM on November 3, 2011 [77 favorites]


Wait... so Conan O'Brien may be about to push the envelope on late night television?
posted by deanklear at 2:34 PM on November 3, 2011


You say envelope, I say envelope.
posted by clearly at 2:34 PM on November 3, 2011 [11 favorites]


We invest our celebrities with many privileges but the authority to officiate wedding ceremonies - even ones performed on television - are not among them. Does Mr. O'Brien have a divinity degree that I'm unaware of?

I'm not sure that stunt marriages on TV are the kind of mainstreaming that equality advocates had in mind.
posted by Trurl at 2:34 PM on November 3, 2011


1,638 likes, 50 dislikes

304 views?
posted by cosmac at 2:35 PM on November 3, 2011 [2 favorites]


The late, (sometimes-)lamented Spy magazine used to do something similar--probably with the help of Nexis--where they'd pick up on a phrase that somehow got stuck in the collective consciousness of journalists, such as "the size of a baby's fist."
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:36 PM on November 3, 2011 [1 favorite]


This is a stunt marriage in the sense that it's a highly public expression of their mutual love and devotion, right?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:37 PM on November 3, 2011 [5 favorites]


Push it! Push it real good!
posted by loquacious at 2:37 PM on November 3, 2011 [2 favorites]


cosmac, that's where it sticks when a video is getting a lot of hits, and I hear Conan O'Brien may be about to push the envelope on late night television.
posted by deanklear at 2:37 PM on November 3, 2011 [1 favorite]


Does Mr. O'Brien have a divinity degree that I'm unaware of?

I'm pretty sure he can just pay fifty bucks to become a notary and that'll take care of it.
posted by anastasiav at 2:37 PM on November 3, 2011 [6 favorites]


It's nice to see Conan's crew go all Daily Show too. It's a nice effect.
posted by mathowie at 2:37 PM on November 3, 2011


304 views?

For some reason the Youtube counters are incapable of updating quickly.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 2:37 PM on November 3, 2011


"Push the late night envelope" is me new euphemism for sexual relations.
posted by Grangousier at 2:38 PM on November 3, 2011 [17 favorites]




Trurl, one does not need a divinity degree to solemnize a marriage in the U.S. Requirements differ from state to state, but you can officiate a wedding as a minister of the Universal Life Church.
posted by kamikazegopher at 2:38 PM on November 3, 2011 [2 favorites]


Does Mr. O'Brien have a divinity degree that I'm unaware of?

Do you need a divinity degree to officiate a wedding ceremony? I'm pretty sure you don't. I was, at one time, in a position where I could legally officiate wedding ceremonies, and I don't have a divinity degree.

I'm not sure that stunt marriages on TV are the kind of mainstreaming that equality advocates had in mind.

Oh, I don't know. Opposite-sex couples plan their whole wedding by audience vote on the Today show and then get married on the show every year. True marriage equality demands that same-sex couples also have stunt marriages on TV. And I bet this one lasts more than a few months.
posted by The World Famous at 2:39 PM on November 3, 2011 [4 favorites]


Does Mr. O'Brien have a divinity degree that I'm unaware of?

It's easy. Just go here, and in five minutes you too can legally officiate a wedding. (Turns out this is how Conan did it too.)
posted by nushustu at 2:40 PM on November 3, 2011 [3 favorites]


stunt marriage

The envelope is going to JUMP SNAKE RIVER CANYON!
posted by mintcake! at 2:40 PM on November 3, 2011 [18 favorites]


Yeah, I've been Reverend Item for years, ordained to marry a couple of friends in Philly. Even have a framed wall certificate and a card in my wallet to prove it.
posted by item at 2:40 PM on November 3, 2011


Trurl... we have drive-through chapels in Vegas. Do you honestly think you have to have a divinity degree to marry someone? Or that Americans have any actual respect for the sanctity of marriage? Half of Atlanta is covered by billboards advertising $500 for uncontested divorces.
posted by deanklear at 2:40 PM on November 3, 2011 [1 favorite]


304 views?

Conan O'Brien may be pushing the envelope on YouTube view counts.

(Google claims it's a bug)
posted by dirigibleman at 2:41 PM on November 3, 2011 [1 favorite]


Becoming a religious minister is free

Funny you should mention that.
posted by theodolite at 2:41 PM on November 3, 2011 [1 favorite]


I officiated a wedding for a couple of friends a few years back. I wore a fez for the occasion. The bride wore a dress made out of toilet paper.
posted by nushustu at 2:41 PM on November 3, 2011 [3 favorites]


We invest our celebrities with many privileges but the authority to officiate wedding ceremonies - even ones performed on television - are not among them. Does Mr. O'Brien have a divinity degree that I'm unaware of?

[Twentieth comment piling on Trurl]
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 2:41 PM on November 3, 2011



Even if there was a press release, it never fails to shock me how often the media will just recite from releases word for word --


It's especially fun when you're sitting at home watching the news and you hear the grammatical error you missed in the press release you wrote on the eleven o'clock news.
posted by thivaia at 2:42 PM on November 3, 2011 [24 favorites]


what? there are marriages on tv all the freaking time. i mean, in the news this week is the travesty of the kardashian BS. i think equality advocates are for equality. gay people should be allowed to get sham marriages in vegas, just like britney spears did. besides,t hat's not even what's happening here - it seems like tow men in a committed relationship wanted to get married while they were in NY - one of them happens to work for conan and they decided to put it on tv. where's the stunt?

the guy who officiated at my wedding doesn't have a divinity degree - like everyone else has said - ULC is a great thing and a wonderful way to keep god out of your ceremony and let the people who know you and love you preside over one of the happier times in your life.
posted by nadawi at 2:42 PM on November 3, 2011 [2 favorites]


That was actually way funnier than it had any right to be. I particularly liked how it seemed that each newscaster would emphasize the sentence in slightly different ways, as if that somehow made reading a press release verbatim more news sounding. Like... News jazz.

Still, I like what he's doing regardless of the ineptitude of those covering it.
posted by quin at 2:42 PM on November 3, 2011 [5 favorites]


I like how, after the 7th newscaster or so, you stop listening to the words they're saying, and start looking in their eyes, on the chance that you might be able to peer right down to where a soul used to be.
posted by liminalrampaste at 2:43 PM on November 3, 2011 [43 favorites]


Or that Americans have any actual respect for the sanctity of marriage?

Fucking Americans! God! I hate them so much!
posted by griphus at 2:44 PM on November 3, 2011 [3 favorites]


"Opus pickled in vats"

"Opus caught rickets from bats!"

"Opus has tickets to CATS!"

"Opus picked: Too fat"
posted by mykescipark at 2:45 PM on November 3, 2011 [15 favorites]


Can I use this as an opportunity to mention that Conan should really push the envelope by saying "LA just isn't working" and move back to New York?
posted by drezdn at 2:47 PM on November 3, 2011 [7 favorites]


Haha, this makes Conan and I ministers in the same Church. I work with Conan O'Brien, cool!
posted by Meatbomb at 2:47 PM on November 3, 2011 [3 favorites]


You say envelope, I say envelope.

You say [ˈɛnvəˌloʊp], I say [ˈɑnvəˌloʊp].
posted by Jehan at 2:48 PM on November 3, 2011 [9 favorites]


griphus, my point being that the people angered by gay marriage are upset about the gay part, not about any sanctity of marriage. Otherwise they'd be demanding more respect for marriage in other ways, like closing down drive-through chapels and tightening regulations on who can officiate a marriage.
posted by deanklear at 2:49 PM on November 3, 2011 [4 favorites]


Kim Kardashian is getting divorced so soon only because the gays have desanctified marriage so badly.
posted by Threeway Handshake at 2:49 PM on November 3, 2011 [4 favorites]


The (apparent) Press Release does not contain the word "envelope" or "push," but does note that this is to celebrate his one year anniversary on TBS, and that "O’Brien became ordained through the Universal Life Church on Oct. 21st, and received the New York wedding package to perform the legal ceremony."
posted by filthy light thief at 2:51 PM on November 3, 2011 [1 favorite]


There was a partial explanation on Reddit for how this happens. Local news subscribes to services that write the entertainment and celebrity bits for them since it is just fluff anyway.

link
posted by Ad hominem at 2:51 PM on November 3, 2011 [2 favorites]


The most interesting part about this video would be if someone could create a map that shows where people pronounce it "enn-velope" vs. "awn-velope"
posted by Space Coyote at 2:52 PM on November 3, 2011 [8 favorites]


...closing down drive-through chapels and tightening regulations on who can officiate a marriage.

I'm not sure how making it more difficult for people to get married upholds the sanctity you are ascribing to it. Especially considering the relative novelty of entering marriage for love and leaving it due to abuse are.
posted by griphus at 2:58 PM on November 3, 2011


Never go with a hippie to a second location.
posted by limeonaire at 2:58 PM on November 3, 2011 [7 favorites]


The most interesting part about this video would be if someone could create a map that shows where people pronounce it "enn-velope" vs. "awn-velope"

Yes! Then we can go beat up the people who say it wrong! Unless, of course, they're the same people who call soda "pop," in which case I just feel sorry for them.
posted by The World Famous at 2:58 PM on November 3, 2011


Do you honestly think you have to have a divinity degree to marry someone? Or that Americans have any actual respect for the sanctity of marriage?

1. I did. (Or be a judge. At least a sea captain.) I stand abundantly corrected.

2. Yes, on the whole. And to whatever extent they don't, that doesn't mean we should stop encouraging them to do so.

This isn't a celebration of love between partners. It's not a blow for marriage equality. It's a ratings stunt.
posted by Trurl at 3:02 PM on November 3, 2011


Why are we assuming they were reading from a press release and not that the news people were asked to do this by the show?
posted by FreezBoy at 3:02 PM on November 3, 2011 [1 favorite]


Conan O'Brien may be about to push the envelope on late-night television.
posted by mazola at 3:03 PM on November 3, 2011 [1 favorite]


There was the one time Letterman brought a fruit basket to his new G.E. overlords after they bought NBC.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 3:05 PM on November 3, 2011 [1 favorite]


Nix on the sea captain idea.
posted by blurker at 3:05 PM on November 3, 2011 [1 favorite]


This isn't a celebration of love between partners. It's not a blow for marriage equality. It's a ratings stunt.

Only if they move to divorce before the current 72-day window has elapsed. Then they win the washing machine.
posted by halfbuckaroo at 3:09 PM on November 3, 2011


This isn't a celebration of love between partners. It's not a blow for marriage equality. It's a ratings stunt.

I don't understand. Why can't it be all three? And how do you know that this is not a celebration of love between two partners? Do you know the couple or something?
posted by The World Famous at 3:10 PM on November 3, 2011 [35 favorites]


Interesting tidbit from blurker's link.

On the one hand there is a longstanding legal presumption that if two people think they got married, they did get married, even if the proceeding by which this was accomplished was suspect

So does that mean if you trick two people into thinking they got married, they are married ? That would be a hell of a practical joke.
posted by Ad hominem at 3:11 PM on November 3, 2011 [1 favorite]


isn't it wonderful to live in a world where marrying two men in a committed relationship on a late night program is expected to be a ratings boon instead of instant cancellation?
posted by nadawi at 3:11 PM on November 3, 2011 [43 favorites]


Halloween Jack: "The late, (sometimes-)lamented Spy magazine used to do something similar--probably with the help of Nexis--where they'd pick up on a phrase that somehow got stuck in the collective consciousness of journalists, such as "the size of a baby's fist."

I think this sort of thing really started picking up in the late eighties and especially the early nineties. But it's not even the local newsreaders subscribing to a wire service— so many phrases become automated in media cycles. I remember when the shit was hitting the fan in Rwanda that Burundi was never mentioned without the prefix "neighboring". I mean, never. Now you see the incessant examples pointed out by The Daily Show. People latch on to a phrasing that seems to work well enough, I think it's probably akin to platitudinal phrasing in most writing, it's easy, it's shorthand, and it's the first thing that comes to mind when these people are churning out shit content for an endless cycle.
posted by Red Loop at 3:12 PM on November 3, 2011 [3 favorites]




Let it now be known as "pushing the Conanvelope"
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:18 PM on November 3, 2011 [1 favorite]


I kind of feel where you're coming from, but everything on TV is a ratings stunt. If this one gets a couple of people to realize that raiders won't break into their homes and burn their bibles or steal all the food from their refrigerators when some dudes get married it's OK with me.
posted by mintcake! at 3:19 PM on November 3, 2011 [1 favorite]


Why can't it be all three?

The first two are an assertion of dignity. The third is an aggressive rejection of same.
posted by Trurl at 3:19 PM on November 3, 2011


Pushing the envelope > Tebow.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 3:20 PM on November 3, 2011 [2 favorites]


isn't it wonderful to live in a world where marrying two men in a committed relationship on a late night program is expected to be a ratings boon instead of instant cancellation?

Totally. It's also a little weird to look back and reflect on how popular Friends was and the ways that it incorporated the same-sex marriage theme from the beginning and then look back to this and see that it's still such a big deal. The Friends same-sex wedding episode was 14 years ago. Yes, some network affiliates refused to air it at the time. But 14 years? That's a lot longer than I would have expected for this still to be "pushing the envelope."
posted by The World Famous at 3:20 PM on November 3, 2011 [7 favorites]


Whatever, the Pardo Patrol pushes the envelope each and every time.
posted by mullacc at 3:21 PM on November 3, 2011


And to whatever extent they don't, that doesn't mean we should stop encouraging them to do so.

I disagree - I think marriage is too sacred. Every Karadashian divorce and Today show marriage-by-popular-vote just brings us closer to the day that we recognize that marriage as a financial contract between consenting adults, and not OMG a sacred union that must not ever be dissolved - the only way to win is to die.
posted by muddgirl at 3:24 PM on November 3, 2011 [5 favorites]


So it's a same-phrase wedding announcement, then?
posted by chavenet at 3:25 PM on November 3, 2011 [3 favorites]


after the second clip, I was gonna flag it as "double"...
posted by HuronBob at 3:27 PM on November 3, 2011


That's a lot longer than I would have expected for this still to be "pushing the envelope."

The envelope got a lot of pushing the other way in the meantime.

Pulling?
posted by kiltedtaco at 3:33 PM on November 3, 2011


I guess some days you have to take the envelope out of the box, and push it.
posted by OldReliable at 3:34 PM on November 3, 2011


[NOT-ENVELOPE-IST]
posted by kaibutsu at 3:35 PM on November 3, 2011


marriage as a financial contract between consenting adults

Same-sex couples can already enter into financial contracts with each other.

If nothing more than that is at stake, why did anyone here give a shit about Prop 8?
posted by Trurl at 3:36 PM on November 3, 2011


because duplicating the rights/responsibilities given out with marriage is messy and in some cases impossible under our legal structure.

separate but equal doesn't work, because it never really is equal - be it drinking fountains or contracts.
posted by nadawi at 3:38 PM on November 3, 2011 [3 favorites]


If nothing more than that is at stake, why did anyone here give a shit about Prop 8?

Because same-sex couples were (and are) excluded from entering into that particular type of contract.
posted by The World Famous at 3:39 PM on November 3, 2011 [1 favorite]


Same-sex couples can already enter into financial contracts with each other.

Possibly not in Virginia, though, which prohibits two people of the same gender from entering into contracts that make it look like marriage. I wish I were making this up.
posted by rtha at 3:40 PM on November 3, 2011 [1 favorite]


Maybe, just maybe, the whole thing is great because a marriage between two people that so few people know of is now a publicity stunt, only because they are a gay couple.

Real, normal people who met in the usual way (not on a TV reality show that was created to match them up) get married on TV from time-to-time. Or at least they propose often enough that it's just A Special Episode of Whatever Show It Is, and not enough to get mass coverage like this. Heck, if it was a straight couple getting married by Coco, it probably wouldn't add much viewership, and would be seen as some wacky stunt by Conan. People would make jokes, but it wouldn't be considered to push any envelopes (probably).

But this was directly a comment on the unbalanced state of the nation, where two consenting adults can be married in one state, but not another.
posted by filthy light thief at 3:40 PM on November 3, 2011 [2 favorites]


If nothing more than that is at stake, why did anyone here give a shit about Prop 8?

Where in the world is this vitriol coming from?
posted by joe lisboa at 3:40 PM on November 3, 2011 [12 favorites]


Indeed: either marriage means something, so all consenting adults should be open to enter into marriage, or it means nothing, so a stunt wedding has no more meaning than a wedding in secrecy.
posted by filthy light thief at 3:42 PM on November 3, 2011 [4 favorites]


So when people posted pictures of old gay and lesbian couples getting married in California on the first day they were allowed to, they expected us to be moved because, at long last, they could enter into the same financial contract as everone else?

Sorry, not buying it.
posted by Trurl at 3:44 PM on November 3, 2011 [2 favorites]


Is the financial contract I made with my boss the same financial contract I made with my husband? Is the financial contract I'm allowed to make with my husband in the state of Texas the same financial contract I'd be allowed to make if my husband had a vulva instead of a penis?

I'd be shocked if the answer to either of these was "yes."
posted by muddgirl at 3:44 PM on November 3, 2011


pushing the envelope
posted by Hairy Lobster at 3:46 PM on November 3, 2011


I believe there's a Sinfest for that.
posted by Wolfdog at 3:46 PM on November 3, 2011


Did I ever deny that there were emotional and cultural reasons that people wanted to get married? I can't find such a statement.

I was proud to be married in California as a Party B rather than as a wife, but on the other hand I refuse to accept that my marriage is autmagically sacred and must be protected from any ending except for death. Divorces happen. Demographically, there's like a 40% chance that I will get divorced at some point. There's no reason to pretend otherwise.
posted by muddgirl at 3:47 PM on November 3, 2011 [1 favorite]


I was proud to be married in California as a Party B rather than as a wife

I'm outraged that California would make people second-class citizens by officially calling them "Party B." There will be no true marriage equality until both parties are referred to as "Party A."
posted by The World Famous at 3:53 PM on November 3, 2011 [3 favorites]


Nah, it's cool, we played Rock Paper Scissors and I lost.
posted by muddgirl at 3:54 PM on November 3, 2011 [13 favorites]


party, eh - canadian weddings.
posted by nadawi at 3:54 PM on November 3, 2011 [3 favorites]


Did I ever deny that there were emotional and cultural reasons that people wanted to get married?

By cheering what you described as an advance towards the perception of marriage as a financial contract - not even "a financial contract with emotional and cultural significance" - yes, you did give me that impression.
posted by Trurl at 3:55 PM on November 3, 2011


This isn't a celebration of love between partners. It's not a blow for marriage equality. It's a ratings stunt.

Oh, I don't know. There are any number of things Conan could have done for a "ratings stunt". This is what he chose to do. Nor do we know anything about the two people getting together here. More importantly, greater acceptance of social issues such as this happen by mainstreaming them. I prefer to choose to look at this as another step in that direction, through its exposure, and through the levity of showing that this is a joyous affair. I'm kinda surprised by the cynicism your viewing this with, but that's your choice, I guess.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 3:56 PM on November 3, 2011 [1 favorite]


Trurl, yeah. Because that financial contract also covers personal affairs, including the ability to see your spouse on their deathbed, keep your shared possessions, raise your children, and so on. You see, these rights have all been denied to same sex couples, because the legal and financial law regulations.

It's not just Wall Street types who get all teary-eyed by the ramifications of financial legislation, especially when personal property and shared lives involve all the things you get emotional about.
posted by mikeh at 3:56 PM on November 3, 2011 [4 favorites]


In 2011, the fact that a legion of brainless teleprompter-reading news ninnies can repeat, with a straight face, an item that Conan is going to "push the envelope" by having a wedding of people like me on his program (meaning celebrity costumers...what—did you think I was queer?), and the fact that all the focus group research that informs the news vortex ninnyscript generated by sad writers toiling away in the glum fear factories of America's newsrooms indicates that they need to qualify it thusly, just once again makes me wish I had that divine cobalt bomb from the set of Hello, Dolly as seen in in the ending of Beneath The Planet Of The Apes so I could blow up this very, very ill-informed world.

Yes, I know that was a very long sentence, but I get florid and apocalyptic when I'm cross.
posted by sonascope at 3:56 PM on November 3, 2011 [2 favorites]


The thing is that marriage -- as recognized by the government -- is a financial/legal thing. They can't legally recognize emotions. That is, unless you're aware of something I'm not.
posted by mikeh at 3:57 PM on November 3, 2011 [1 favorite]


There will be no true marriage equality until both parties are referred to as "Party A."

Well, they can't both be "Party A". How about one of them is "Party A" and the other is "Party 1"?
posted by King Bee at 3:58 PM on November 3, 2011 [8 favorites]


oh noes! two men about to eat a mousse in an obvious grab for facebook likes.

how undignified!
posted by nadawi at 3:58 PM on November 3, 2011


They can't legally recognize emotions

Hate crime legislation suggests otherwise.
posted by Trurl at 3:59 PM on November 3, 2011


So when people posted pictures of old gay and lesbian couples getting married in California on the first day they were allowed to, they expected us to be moved because, at long last, they could enter into the same financial contract as everone else?

And when you're moved by Civil Rights era pictures of desegregated schools and coffee shops, does that mean that schools and coffee shops are holy?

People who regain their right to be treated equally get excited no matter what it is. Marriage means many things to many people, but as far as the law is concerned in most states, it's a financial agreement (usually, and unjustly, between a man and a woman). It doesn't command you to love anyone eternally on your certificate — that bit is up to you.
posted by deanklear at 3:59 PM on November 3, 2011 [6 favorites]


Well, they can't both be "Party A". How about one of them is "Party A" and the other is "Party 1"?

That sounds separate but equal to me.
posted by The World Famous at 4:01 PM on November 3, 2011


Metafilter: florid and apocalyptic
posted by quin at 4:04 PM on November 3, 2011 [2 favorites]


The World Famous: Well, they can't both be "Party A". How about one of them is "Party A" and the other is "Party 1"?

That sounds separate but equal to me.


Listen, without Husband and Wife, there's Person A and Person B. Someone has to be the top, and someone the bottom, or someone the pitcher and the other person a quarterback, so we're not always equal.

What, did I mess up the analogies there? Fah, I quit.
posted by filthy light thief at 4:06 PM on November 3, 2011


It was a joke.
posted by The World Famous at 4:08 PM on November 3, 2011


Holy crap! Now I'm really with Coco!
posted by lumpenprole at 4:09 PM on November 3, 2011 [2 favorites]


I thought he pushed the envelope with the jeggings episode.
posted by vespabelle at 4:12 PM on November 3, 2011


Is this something you'd have to own a mailbox to understand?
 
posted by Herodios at 4:14 PM on November 3, 2011


If and when I get married, I plan to actively make sure that the officiant does not have a degree in Divinity.
posted by Midnight Rambler at 4:15 PM on November 3, 2011 [3 favorites]


This isn't a celebration of love between partners. It's not a blow for marriage equality. It's a ratings stunt.

As previously mentioned - Conan himself is a ratings stunt. He's a late night talk show comedian.

And while the wedding can easily be all three points, I really think you're over-thinking this. It could also be a completely sincere wedding that he wants to share with the world.

Did you even look at the picture of the two guys getting married? They obviously love each other.

And there's nothing wrong with wanting to be proud of that and being brave enough to announce it to the world. Hetero couples do it all the time and it's no big deal. Even worse - see the recent sham marriage and divorce of Kim Kardashian, or any other celebrity stunt wedding. Which this obviously is not.

And not every same sex marriage has to be a serious blow for same sex marriage. Who assigned you that job of deciding what is and isn't serious blow for equality, anyway?

So.

We're left with you being cynical and agonizing over some kind of false sense of reverence or double-standards of propriety that same sex marriage should somehow be more somber and serious than any given hetero marriage, or that they're somehow sullying the concept of marriage itself, or that it's not valid or sincere just because it's going to be televised.

Or - less charitably - you're really trying to say that same sex marriage absolutely has to be somber and serious and, well, not gay. Maybe the problem you're having isn't with the publicly broadcast marriage ceremony, but the fact that it's a same sex marriage ceremony?

Methinks you doth protest way too fucking much. You're being a Grinch. Let people be.
posted by loquacious at 4:16 PM on November 3, 2011 [6 favorites]


They can't legally recognize emotions

Hate crime legislation suggests otherwise.
posted by Trurl at 3:59 PM on 11/3
[+] [!]


They can't legally mandate emotions. Please don't be so obstuse.
posted by rtha at 4:18 PM on November 3, 2011 [3 favorites]


They can't legally mandate emotions. Please don't be so obstuse.

I beg to differ. The Happy Go Lucky Act Of 1817 and the Gloomy Gus Prevention Act of 1995 both mandate emotions on a federal level due to their impact on interstate commerce.
posted by The World Famous at 4:23 PM on November 3, 2011 [7 favorites]


Ad hominem: "
On the one hand there is a longstanding legal presumption that if two people think they got married, they did get married, even if the proceeding by which this was accomplished was suspect

So does that mean if you trick two people into thinking they got married, they are married ? That would be a hell of a practical joke.
"

I assume that longstanding legal presumption draws on St. Augustine's opposition to the Donatist heresy. In summary, it doesn't matter whether or not it's officiated by a priest who is actually a priest or not, since the force is in the ceremony itself.

Admittedly, that's ignoring the subsequent 1500 years of changes to marriage and governments and the legal system. To that I say that I'm not really up on current marriage law but I do know a lot of Late Antique heresies, and I'm not sitting around waiting for a chance to reference Monotheletism.
posted by Copronymus at 4:25 PM on November 3, 2011 [3 favorites]


This isn't a celebration of love between partners. It's not a blow for marriage equality. It's a ratings stunt.

I'm with the other poster in wondering why it can't be all three? I believe it is the first two, so I quite approve of it also being a ratings stunt.
posted by Malice at 4:25 PM on November 3, 2011 [1 favorite]


trurl, what gives? Did you think when you were little that when Joanie married Chachi that it was for real, and did you just not recover from the shock of finding out different?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:28 PM on November 3, 2011 [3 favorites]


Man, I loved that Happy Days spin-off show, Joanie Is Legally Bound By A Financial Contract With Chachi.
posted by The World Famous at 4:31 PM on November 3, 2011 [6 favorites]


One of my acquaintances is a writer on Conan's show. I'll tell him he should consider actually writing into this show the pushing of an actual envelope down the aisle.
posted by spicynuts at 4:32 PM on November 3, 2011 [2 favorites]


Can we please now all agree that local TV news is utter, utter fluff for anything besides the weather and sports? (And the local state fair story about deep fried Snickers bars or whatever--those are kinda fun.)
posted by zardoz at 4:35 PM on November 3, 2011


I didn't realize that was in dispute.
posted by spicynuts at 4:38 PM on November 3, 2011


I Always cry at weddings. especially mine.
posted by Postroad at 4:46 PM on November 3, 2011 [3 favorites]


I am not going to rewatch the whole thing to confirm this, but it seems like men are a lot more likely than women to say ahnvelope rather than ehnvelope. I have no idea what this means; just observing.
posted by naoko at 4:51 PM on November 3, 2011


ennnvelope

onnnnvelope
posted by speicus at 4:56 PM on November 3, 2011


envelope = 10

onvelope = 8 + Andy Richter

Andy Richter = eleventy billion, so ONVELOPE WINS
posted by speicus at 5:00 PM on November 3, 2011 [6 favorites]


Hate crime legislation suggests otherwise.

For the eight millionth time, no it doesn't.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:14 PM on November 3, 2011 [8 favorites]


Conan O'Brien is a horse.
posted by weewooweewoo at 5:19 PM on November 3, 2011 [2 favorites]


TWF - thanks! I can always count on mefi lawyerfolk to know the ins and puts of arcane federal law! I'd totally forgotten about the Happy Go Lucky Act, which I think was covered in 7th grade civics class.
posted by rtha at 5:23 PM on November 3, 2011


stunt marriage

It's a stunt wedding. It's a real marriage. There's a difference.
posted by Grangousier at 5:26 PM on November 3, 2011 [16 favorites]


Conan O'Brien is a horse.

Look at him dance, look at him dance, look at him dance like a horse?

Or do you mean some weird necrobeastialist is going to gut him and use him for a sleeping bag?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:37 PM on November 3, 2011


I'm sure the costume guy will think of it not as "stunt wedding" but as "really cool wedding present from my boss".
posted by Mister Moofoo at 5:39 PM on November 3, 2011 [4 favorites]


Or perhaps just as "my wedding".
posted by Mister Moofoo at 5:40 PM on November 3, 2011


Come on. Why do I suspect that Conan et al. requested affiliates to follow a script for the announcement -- with the incentive that they might make an appearance on his show? 18 instances of the same opening line? Coincidence? Hardly.
posted by ericb at 5:45 PM on November 3, 2011


i don't think anyone is suggesting it's a coincidence. it's a script. entertainment fluff is written by a service that these stations all subscribe to. they get the script, they follow it, they call it news and then break to sell you more chevys and hamburgers.
posted by nadawi at 5:49 PM on November 3, 2011


This beats the Tiny Tim and Miss Vicki nuptials with a stick.
I SAID IT.
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:52 PM on November 3, 2011


it's a script. entertainment fluff is written by a service that these stations all subscribe to.

Yep ...
"The clip O’Brien showed ... features 18 local news anchors reporting on the wedding — using the exact same phrase. So how did this happen?

The likely explanation is that wire copy associated with the original source contained the phrase, which then made its way into scripts and onto prompters with little editing. Local news is increasingly under fire for content sharing, which the RTDNA recently discovered that a whopping 78% of stations do."
posted by ericb at 5:53 PM on November 3, 2011


Or that Americans have any actual respect for the sanctity of marriage?

In related news: 20 Gay Couples That Put Kim Kardashian's Marriage (And Many Others) To Shame.
posted by ericb at 5:57 PM on November 3, 2011 [3 favorites]


Not on topic, but:

KokuRyu: Back in 1989 I used to do the 5PM news on CFUV, UVic's campus radio station. At that time (this is pre-Internet, pre web, almost pre computer)

1989: pre-web? Yes.

Pre-Internet? Not even close.

Almost pre-COMPUTER? ...wut
posted by tzikeh at 6:06 PM on November 3, 2011 [5 favorites]


I am not going to rewatch the whole thing to confirm this, but it seems like men are a lot more likely than women to say ahnvelope rather than ehnvelope. I have no idea what this means; just observing.

That's quite interesting. Women are more known to demonstrate pronunciation usually associated with a higher social group or class. The [ˈɑnvəˌloʊp] pronunciation is slightly closer to that of the French, so presumably associated with a higher class (that is, people who can speak French). Thus the opposite association being true suggests something else is at play in pronunciation.
posted by Jehan at 6:11 PM on November 3, 2011


When people ask why I don't watch local news anymore... this is why.
posted by djrock3k at 6:16 PM on November 3, 2011 [2 favorites]


envelopé
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:20 PM on November 3, 2011 [1 favorite]


Sabotahge
posted by Horace Rumpole at 7:08 PM on November 3, 2011


I'm going to be Party Prime, he's going to be Party Alpha.
posted by Garm at 7:14 PM on November 3, 2011


So, tzikeh, you "literal button" seems stuck in the "on position."

In 1993, when I first heard about the internet, neither of my parents (well educated, with-it professionals) had any idea what it was. Yeah, the internet existed, but no one I knew was in the military, computer engineers or college faculty sooooo.... yeah, for 90% of America the internet, effectively did not exist at that time. (AOL wasn't even a thing until 1989, and I have no idea what it was doing then).

Also my family did not have a computer till 1990 so I'd safely say that '80s was the "pre-computer" era in the Snowman Household at least.
posted by midmarch snowman at 7:17 PM on November 3, 2011 [2 favorites]



They can't legally mandate emotions. Please don't be so obstuse.

I beg to differ. The Happy Go Lucky Act Of 1817 and the Gloomy Gus Prevention Act of 1995 both mandate emotions on a federal level due to their impact on interstate commerce.


The jury having found you guilty, I sentence you to hang by the neck until you cheer up.
 
posted by Herodios at 7:37 PM on November 3, 2011


This isn't a celebration of love between partners. It's not a blow for marriage equality. It's a ratings stunt.

I want to marry my boyfriend of seven years but am not legally able to in my state. My deeply Catholic mother loves me well enough but is pretty uncomfortable with the marriage issue. She thinks about her marriage and how meaningful it is to her and she is somehow afraid that that will fundamentally change if we change so called traditional marriage.

But after she met my boyfriend and after spending dozens of holidays together just like she spends them with my brother's wife, she has completely changed on the issue. Seeing is believing.

Whether this is Conan giving a crazy wedding present to an employee or a ratings stunt is irrelevant. People are going to see what this dreaded redefined wedding is like and will see that despite it being on stage it isn't all that different from their own wedding. And that is a powerful statement and certainly a blow for marriage equality.
posted by munchingzombie at 7:51 PM on November 3, 2011 [16 favorites]


I don't get it.

What is Conan about to do?
posted by Skygazer at 8:05 PM on November 3, 2011


Metafilter: pushing the envelope through the window of opportunity going forward.
posted by jet_silver at 8:06 PM on November 3, 2011 [2 favorites]


Let's deal with reality. This is TBS. Ted Turner became a billionaire targeting that channel at the sort of Middle American bourgeoise that voted for Reagan and loved Ric Flair. The new managers have added the Tyler Perry crowd to the audience base. None of these groups are going to be wowed by a gay wedding.

This isn't about politics or equality or acceptance. It is the demographic facts of the entertainment industry.
posted by Yakuman at 8:09 PM on November 3, 2011


What is Conan about to do?

Push beyond elope.
posted by The World Famous at 8:19 PM on November 3, 2011 [9 favorites]


Let's deal with reality. This is TBS. Ted Turner became a billionaire targeting that channel at the sort of Middle American bourgeoise that voted for Reagan and loved Ric Flair. The new managers have added the Tyler Perry crowd to the audience base. None of these groups are going to be wowed by a gay wedding.

What? TBS is not the down-home Walker Texas Rerun channel it used to be. It revamped about ten years ago with Sex and the City as its centerpiece. It's more bourgeois than ever, but hardly conservative. But even before the change: Captain Planet!
posted by Sys Rq at 8:28 PM on November 3, 2011


If James Franco was marrying his body pillow on late night TV, THAT would be a ratings stunt.
posted by mek at 8:44 PM on November 3, 2011 [1 favorite]


Mazeltov!
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:55 PM on November 3, 2011


I think Conan and Andy should get married.
posted by Skygazer at 9:04 PM on November 3, 2011


Kim Kardashian also pushed the envelope, but she insisted that it contain at least 10 grand.
posted by anothermug at 9:31 PM on November 3, 2011 [4 favorites]


Why do I feel like I'm the only one who watched this thing?
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:20 PM on November 3, 2011


"Yes! Then we can go beat up the people who say it wrong! Unless, of course, they're the same people who call soda "pop," in which case I just feel sorry for them."

I THOUGHT YOU WERE FROM MICHIGAN
posted by klangklangston at 11:19 PM on November 3, 2011


Also, let's try not to hold the gays to some sort of model minority bullshit lest we tsk tsk them for engaging in mild tackiness that would be unremarkable for anyone else — especially if we're straight folks.
posted by klangklangston at 11:21 PM on November 3, 2011 [3 favorites]


I THOUGHT YOU WERE FROM MICHIGAN

It's only pop if it's Faygo or Vernors. Everything else is soda.
posted by The World Famous at 11:49 PM on November 3, 2011


You see that they want like $2 each for a 12 oz. of Red Pop at Galco's, right? It's like, motherfucker, that buys a three liter in the homeland! Also, why no rock 'n' rye?
posted by klangklangston at 12:54 AM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


Some of the more rare root beers and sasparillas are worth Galco's prices, but I can't bring myself to spend $2 on a bottle of Faygo. Galco's definitely pushes the envelope on pop prices.
posted by The World Famous at 1:08 AM on November 4, 2011


Especially because you don't know the acquired taste of using Faygos for mixers with booze. Rock 'n' rye 'n' rye is a thing of beauty. (Also dunno where you fall on the caffeine thing.)
posted by klangklangston at 1:14 AM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


scotch and vernors is an incredible thing.
posted by nadawi at 1:28 AM on November 4, 2011


Am I the only one who thought that maybe the video reel was staged? A lot of the stations seemed to be very localized (i.e., small), and many were of the non-speaking broadcasters were smiling if not downright chuckling as the phrase was spoken. I wouldn't be surprised if the reel itself was a stunt (and a hilarious one at that). As far as the wedding goes, I agree wih the person who said how wonderful it is that a televised same-sex marriage is now a ratings boost, as opposed to a scandal. We've come a long way, baby.
posted by flyingsquirrel at 2:32 AM on November 4, 2011


I can get behind the fact that some people may believe that MARRIAGE is sacred (me, I'm a big supporter of divorce as an option, but whatevs) but, people, a WEDDING is a party. There have been parties on television since, well, the dawn of television.

I recall there being a huge, internationally televised wedding in April, I think it involved royals in England. But they were straight and in a church so I guess we can conclusively determine that their marriage wasn't a stunt.
posted by lydhre at 6:18 AM on November 4, 2011


scotch and vernors is an incredible thing.

Why would you do that to scotch? What did scotch ever do to you?
posted by middleclasstool at 6:21 AM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]


I loved watching the wedding and had a tear in my eye. I'm a big softy/crybaby though.
posted by josher71 at 6:27 AM on November 4, 2011


Gothamist has the clip of the ceremony.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:08 AM on November 4, 2011 [3 favorites]


This beats the Tiny Tim and Miss Vicki nuptials with a stick.

For reference:

On December 17, 1969, with 21.4 million viewers watching, Tiny Tim (Herbert Khaury, 37) married Victoria Mae Budinger (17, whom he always referred to publicly as "Miss Vicki") on The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson.

Youtube or it didn't happen:
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8
Part 9
Pärt One
Pärt Two
Pärt Three
Pärt Four
 
posted by Herodios at 7:44 AM on November 4, 2011


They can't legally mandate emotions.

They did with my marriage. We constantly had to prove to them that we love each other. They haven't done it in a while, so I don't know if we are still at risk of them calling us up and insisting we come show them more proof that we love each other.

So yeah, they can legally mandate emotions. They won't do if you are both from America, but if one of you isn't, they will mandate emotions.
posted by BurnChao at 10:44 AM on November 4, 2011 [4 favorites]


Because everyone used the same ambiguous phrasing of this event ('Conan's Same-Sex Wedding News!!11!1') in their headlines, I ended up believing Conan was having one.

Now I'm sort of sad that's not the case.
posted by spamguy at 2:43 PM on November 4, 2011


On December 17, 1969, with 21.4 million viewers watching, Tiny Tim (Herbert Khaury, 37) married Victoria Mae Budinger (17, whom he always referred to publicly as "Miss Vicki") on The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson.
My grandfather cried watching that event.
posted by spamguy at 2:44 PM on November 4, 2011


Triumph Visits Occupy Wall Street.
posted by Skygazer at 9:04 PM on November 4, 2011


Space Coyote: "The most interesting part about this video would be if someone could create a map that shows where people pronounce it "enn-velope" vs. "awn-velope""

Oooh, it's more than geography! The variation is probably sorted along other lines as well...perhaps gender, politics, who knows. It might even relate back to the topic at hand, i.e. same-sex marriage. It'd be interesting to find out, and if anybody wants to help me quantify the sociolinguistic variation in [ˈɛnvəˌloʊp] vs. [ˈɑnvəˌloʊp] here's how: we could collect a list of links to clips of mentions for "push the envelope"...with each link, It'd be good to know the following:

A) How many speakers on screen in the link (who they are, their gender, ethnicity...see D)
B) How many mentions of 'envelope' by each speaker in the link (total # of tokens)
C) How many times each speaker says [ˈɛnvəˌloʊp] vs. [ˈɑnvəˌloʊp] (distribution of tokens across the two variants)
D) Whether the speaker is male or female, whether they speak in a standard dialect or regional dialect, their ethnic background
E) Which news station (and where that station is based; that station's political affiliation, size of viewership)
F) The total time length of the clip
G) Any other relevant information...especially if the speaker demonstrates other interesting features or the content of what they're saying is marked in some way (perhaps states an opinion, bias, etc.)

With these information bits collected and systematized (hello, Google Docs!), the whole thing can be dumped into a database file and then run through some tests of significance. Maybe there's a there there, maybe not. But I've wondered for a long time if the [ɛn] vs. [ɑn] split is sociolinguistically marked, below the level of consciousness. Meaning, that there are social factors influencing whether or not a person might choose one variant over another, but people aren't directly aware of them. It's similar to how we might pick up social information from people through how they pronounce certain words...one well-researched example is in the pronunciation of 'Iraq'"We hypothesized that, for the first vowel, the (ay) [as in right] variant indexes political conservatism and the (iy) [as in be] and (Ih) [as in lib] vowels both index political liberalism, while for the second vowel, the (ae) [as in mad) variant indexes political conservativism and the (a) [as in job] variant indexes political liberalism."

Why does this matter here? Through looking at this variation, we may or may not find that something else is being conveyed through this pronunciation choice. And that something may or may not be related to a stance on same-sex marriage, or say, a political ideology that trends with those stances (oh, what wicked webs we weave). You never know until you look and perhaps find a statistically significant pattern. Again, one that is below people's level of direct awareness.
posted by iamkimiam at 6:33 AM on November 6, 2011 [1 favorite]


I officiated a wedding for a couple of friends a few years back. I wore a fez for the occasion. The bride wore a dress made out of toilet paper.

Cocaine is one helluva drug.
posted by Theta States at 12:53 PM on November 7, 2011


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