Skip

Craig's Lift
August 16, 2012 2:42 PM   Subscribe

A dude found his stolen bicycle on Craigslist days after it had been lifted and then drives 160 miles to find the thief and confront him.
posted by gman (148 comments total) 19 users marked this as a favorite

 
Saw this the other day, and was struck by how much that dude really must love his $2,500.00 bicycle to completely either

a) place it above his personal safety or

b) shut off his internal danger gauge.

I mean, sweet mother, he rides into traffic and shit to track a random thief who could easily have a blade. Watching it, I was rooting for them, but also a little terrified.
posted by lazaruslong at 2:48 PM on August 16, 2012 [3 favorites]


Oh, and the Typing Level: Seattle PD part made me snort. Funny!
posted by lazaruslong at 2:49 PM on August 16, 2012 [4 favorites]


lazaruslong: "I mean, sweet mother, he rides into traffic and shit to track a random thief who could easily have a blade. "

I have a bike I built and love dearly, and if anyone stole it I would do as much if not more to bring them down.
posted by mullingitover at 2:51 PM on August 16, 2012 [7 favorites]


My bike is a family heirloom. It belonged to my mother. It turned 30 yesterday. I intend to give it to one of my own children one day. I am a man of peace, but if necessary I would absolutely fight the motherfucker who stole it from me.
posted by Scientist at 2:54 PM on August 16, 2012 [3 favorites]


Wow, that guy's so lucky. I had my e-bike stolen from in front of my office in SF a couple weeks ago. Never did get any leads on it. I loved that thing. Definitely would have ridden into traffic to stop the thief.

Argh. I miss my bike.
posted by kochbeck at 2:54 PM on August 16, 2012 [1 favorite]


Yea sorry, this is incredibly stupid. A guy was repeatedly stabbed in broad daylight here last week, after chasing down someone breaking into his car. Write down the serial number, call the cops, report it stolen. Don't go running after a thief yourself.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:57 PM on August 16, 2012 [7 favorites]


Great story, but if he ended up getting stabbed / beaten severely, I'm pretty sure we'd be admonishing the guy instead of applauding.
posted by Dark Messiah at 2:58 PM on August 16, 2012 [2 favorites]


T.D. Strange: Yea sorry, this is incredibly stupid.

You wanna see incredibly stupid? I just searched and found that I'd told the story on here before so I'll just link to the comment.
posted by gman at 2:58 PM on August 16, 2012 [5 favorites]


Spoiler: It was in the basement of the Alamo.
posted by glhaynes at 2:59 PM on August 16, 2012 [26 favorites]


He's lucky.
Should Coulda gone much worse for him.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 2:59 PM on August 16, 2012


My bike is a family heirloom.

That seems like a precarious game to play.
posted by smackfu at 3:00 PM on August 16, 2012 [2 favorites]


It could be a $100 bike. When you've spent years outfitting it with the stuff you need, maintaining it, and you rely on it every day, a theft is really personal - it's someone punching you in the face and kicking you when you're down for a few lousy bucks, because they don't give a shit.

Similarly perhaps, a buglar might only take the DVD player, but many people have an intense psychological impact of nolonger feeling secure in your own home, the psychological response to thefts is often nothing to do with the market value of the goods involved.
posted by anonymisc at 3:00 PM on August 16, 2012 [22 favorites]


If you can't handle the self-importance of the whole video, check out Bike Snob NYC's play-by-play/synopsis here (scroll down)
"This is how it goes down everybody, this is why you don't steal from bicyclists." Yes, because they will annoy you to death.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 3:01 PM on August 16, 2012 [21 favorites]


this is why we need plentiful, cheaper bicycles

this is nonsense, people, you are freaking out over bicycles

bicycles!
posted by TwelveTwo at 3:02 PM on August 16, 2012 [2 favorites]


God, I hate both of them. I hate the bike thief more, obviously, but this guy Simon is such a self-important fuck that it takes the fun out of seing bike thief scum vindicated.
posted by Jon_Evil at 3:04 PM on August 16, 2012 [31 favorites]


but many people have an intense psychological impact of nolonger feeling secure in your own home, the psychological response to thefts is often nothing to do with the market value of the goods involved.

I completely understand that aspect, I've had enough things stolen in my life-time.

Getting stabbed / shot can also have a very profound psychological effect. In a day and age where people get killed over literal pocket change, I would need to be very sure of the situation before going vigilante.
posted by Dark Messiah at 3:04 PM on August 16, 2012


"I bought this on Craigslist. I knew it was stolen, but it's not illegal to buy stolen stuff. I looked it up, dude."
posted by koeselitz at 3:05 PM on August 16, 2012 [8 favorites]


This wouldn't happen if there wasn't such a thing as personal property.
posted by found missing at 3:06 PM on August 16, 2012 [4 favorites]


I'm glad it worked out for him, but must every little drama in some people's lives become a YouTube video?
posted by davebush at 3:06 PM on August 16, 2012 [8 favorites]


Did I hear him say it's a $2500 bike?
posted by merelyglib at 3:08 PM on August 16, 2012


And, yeah, Simon's a dick who doesn't care about his bike or his personal safety as much as he cares about making a cool video and feeling like a badass.

Just call the cops, dumbass. They will deal with it. Typing skills notwithstanding.
posted by koeselitz at 3:08 PM on August 16, 2012 [2 favorites]


must every little drama in some people's lives become a YouTube video?

You are proposing a youtube of nothing but cats?

Hmm... that could work...
posted by anonymisc at 3:09 PM on August 16, 2012 [2 favorites]


I think what he was getting at with the "people buy stolen stuff all the time and it gets retrieved" is that he figured he could make a buck if he turned it around fast enough and left the next dude holding the bab. Pretty funny. I'd say his GF is a keeper, not only in on his criminal enterprise, she is smart enough the play dumb and just stroll away and remain out of prison so she can keep the operation going and deal with getting him out.
posted by Ad hominem at 3:09 PM on August 16, 2012


an intense psychological impact of nolonger feeling secure in your own home

You're not kidding. I've been burgled twice over the years, both times through a broken window, both times stealing stuff that wasn't that important -- seriously, dude, you hauled away my old ten-ton 14" CRT monitor in my pillowcase? -- but both times I was devastated with anxiety and dread. I probably didn't sleep for a month afterwards, freaking out at shadows and rustling leaves, getting the shakes as I approached my front door every night.

It's not just the stuff. It's also the violation -- the first time the guy dumped out every drawer in the apartment; the second time he not only took our pillowcases to carry loot in, he slit open our pillows and dumped out the stuffing and took those too.
posted by Fnarf at 3:11 PM on August 16, 2012 [2 favorites]


If you can't handle the self-importance of the whole video, check out Bike Snob NYC's play-by-play/synopsis here (scroll down)

I read this yesterday and it perfectly expressed my feelings about the video. I understand being righteously angry and wanting revenge, but that dude was hella annoying. Not quite to the level of the guy who drove through the Chik-Fil-A drive through to video himself harassing the poor cashier, but close.
posted by oneirodynia at 3:11 PM on August 16, 2012


I really don't get the impression this guy is a dick or dancing for the spotlight or anything. I think a good faith reading of his decisions is basically just what he says in the video. That he both loves that bicycle, and would do just about anything to get it back, and that he hopes that filming and releasing the video will discourage other thieves.

We can definitely take issue with both of those claims, and my personal reaction is to be scared out of my wits of doing something like that, and maybe it won't be effective...but I don't think he's just a simple douche or anything like that.
posted by lazaruslong at 3:11 PM on August 16, 2012 [14 favorites]


Similarly perhaps, a buglar might only take the DVD player, but many people have an intense psychological impact of nolonger feeling secure in your own home, the psychological response to thefts is often nothing to do with the market value of the goods involved.

1000x this. It makes you crazy especially if the object has been stolen out of your home. And if you had any personal investment in said object, such as saved games on a PS3 add that emotional entanglement and loss.
posted by edbles at 3:14 PM on August 16, 2012 [1 favorite]


Anybody who starts yelling "Citizen's Arrest!" is one automatic Jerkface. Bike thieves are below Jerkfaces, but who wants to be a Jerkface?
posted by angrycat at 3:14 PM on August 16, 2012 [9 favorites]


Just call the cops, dumbass. They will deal with it.

No. They wont.

We caught a dude in broad daylight at a busy intersection between a movie theater and a record store bolt cutting bikes and putting em into his pickup.
Called the cops, got license number and photo proof of all of it and the cops pretty much just went "meh"

So this dude may be a bit smug, but alot of us are glad to see something done.
Especially as Im typing this from Sacramento. The bike theft capital of America.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 3:15 PM on August 16, 2012 [44 favorites]


lazaruslong: “We can definitely take issue with both of those claims, and my personal reaction is to be scared out of my wits of doing something like that, and maybe it won't be effective...but I don't think he's just a simple douche or anything like that.”

Yeah, I shouldn't call him "dumbass." Fnarf's point is a good one – having shit stolen really sucks, and it gets under your skin even if it's not something you treasure like this guy does his bike.

I still feel like this was all a terrible idea and made it less likely that he'd recover his bike, though. But in the circumstances, I guess he was probably a bit pissed off.
posted by koeselitz at 3:15 PM on August 16, 2012 [1 favorite]


Similarly perhaps, a buglar might only take the DVD player, but many people have an intense psychological impact of nolonger feeling secure in your own home, the psychological response to thefts is often nothing to do with the market value of the goods involved.

God, don't I know it. Our house was broken into twice within our first two years living here. The level of paranoia we have now about leaving the house at all is off the charts.

such as saved games on a PS3 add that emotional entanglement and loss.

Between my wife and I we lost at least 5 or 6 Shepards. :(
posted by kmz at 3:15 PM on August 16, 2012 [1 favorite]


I still feel like this was all a terrible idea and made it less likely that he'd recover his bike, though.

Going to where someone is selling the bike actually makes it more likely he'll recover his bike. Mainly because, ya know, thats where the bike is at.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 3:18 PM on August 16, 2012 [3 favorites]


Did I hear him say it's a $2500 bike?

That's surprisingly (and disappointingly) undifficult in the USA. Even if you start with a modest bike, after a few years of outfitting it with the stuff you want, you can easily end up putting in more money in than the original price. And if you want to round up or include your own labor in the total...
posted by anonymisc at 3:18 PM on August 16, 2012 [1 favorite]


The more I think about it, I'm betting the GF is the brains here. She just walked off into the crowd. She is the keyser soze of bike theft.
posted by Ad hominem at 3:18 PM on August 16, 2012 [31 favorites]


Having stuff stolen sucks, but Barney Fife needs to take it down a notch.
posted by Optamystic at 3:19 PM on August 16, 2012 [4 favorites]


That was awesome and it's more fun to appreciate it than to point out how it could have gone awry.
posted by MoonOrb at 3:20 PM on August 16, 2012 [8 favorites]


He had a bunch of friends with him (mostly), and they'd established before the incident that the thief didn't have a bunch of his friends with him.
So that part he did right.
posted by anonymisc at 3:20 PM on August 16, 2012 [4 favorites]


I would need to be very sure of the situation before going vigilante.

I envision elaborate recon scenarios with fake cable vans and a variety of amusing disguises.
posted by elizardbits at 3:23 PM on August 16, 2012 [2 favorites]


My bike, which cost quite a bit of money when I bought it, just turned 25. These days it's a bit beat-up (but structurally sound) and I can't imagine it would fetch much on Craigslist or at a pawn shop. I've also been using the same crappy-ass lock for as long as I can remember (when the bike was new I lived in a small town and never had to leave it locked up outside). Any halfway-competent bike thief could crack the thing in two seconds, but now I feel like it's a lucky charm and/or that if I were to buy a good lock it would just draw attention to the bike.
posted by "But who are the Chefs?" at 3:24 PM on August 16, 2012


My favorite part is where all he has to do is engage the guy in conversation for like 15 minutes until the cops come but he decides to whip his camera phone out and go BLUURRRRRRRRRRRGH instead.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 3:26 PM on August 16, 2012 [13 favorites]


I used to know a student power lifting chapion at uni, he came out of the sports centre one day and someone was trying to break the lock off his (pretty decent) bike. Apparently he came up behind the guy, held up the keys with his left hand and asked "Would these help?" when the guy turned and looked at the keys chinned him with his right.
posted by biffa at 3:29 PM on August 16, 2012 [1 favorite]


Hip-sters, Hip-sters. Whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when they come for yoooou?
posted by 4ster at 3:29 PM on August 16, 2012 [16 favorites]



I probably shouldn't tell the story about when my roomies got a couple of snowboards stolen.

Mmm.. I guess I will. When you snowboard every day not just for fun but for work getting your board stolen is just not cool. So these friends got a couple of boards stolen from their house during a party. Somehow they figured out who did it and that they were most likely at their house.

Long story short a group of us planned a commando operation which consisted of a couple of other girls and I doing some distracting while the guys snuck through the back yard, in through a window and out through a back door once they found their boards.

It was a little more involved then that and took oodles of planning. Stupid maybe but in the end quite satisfying. That's what you get though when you steal a board from a ex special ops vet who is taking a couple of years to have some fun.

Good times.
posted by Jalliah at 3:31 PM on August 16, 2012 [4 favorites]


There's a graceful way to handle a situation like this, then there's "Simon's Little Reality Show".
posted by davebush at 3:36 PM on August 16, 2012 [3 favorites]


I would need to be very sure of the situation before going vigilante.

I envision elaborate recon scenarios with fake cable vans and a variety of amusing disguises.


That would be awesome, but I have a budget. I meant more along the lines of being reasonably sure I'm not chasing a dude into an ambush, dealing with a guy who is FUBAR on drugs, carrying a weapon, etc.

I am by no means pretending I am completely emotionally detached, or that I wouldn't be fuming over having stuff stolen, but I'm very keen on self preservation. I've had so much stuff broken / stolen that only a handful of possessions mean anything to me, and all but one can be replaced (barring the invention of time travel).

I can make more money to buy more things. Some waste of humanity shanks me, I bleed out on the street and no one can replace that.

Don't mistake this for me trying to be all high-and-mighty, I'm just sharing my approach to these situations. I like my things; I work very hard to afford them; I still like being alive more than anything else. YMMV.
posted by Dark Messiah at 3:38 PM on August 16, 2012 [1 favorite]


I give the guy credit for making it work. He had to find the bike for sale in a different state, get there in time before the thief sold it to someone else, then arrange for the cops to show up just in time with the thief on the run looking guilty. And get it all recorded on video. A series of lucky contingencies. It's a rare video, mostly due to the stupidity of the thief.
posted by stbalbach at 3:39 PM on August 16, 2012 [3 favorites]


Just call the cops, dumbass. They will deal with it.

Heh...that's adorable!
posted by infinitywaltz at 3:42 PM on August 16, 2012 [31 favorites]


Maybe he got a little excited about the whole thing, but I'm sure there was a lot of adrenaline involved. People don't always act cool when they're hopped up and kinda scared. I would have done the same thing to get my bike back, minus the video.
posted by orme at 3:44 PM on August 16, 2012 [1 favorite]


me: “Just call the cops, dumbass. They will deal with it.”

infinitywaltz: “Heh...that's adorable!”

Note that he did call the cops, and instead of waiting for them to arrest the dude and his girlfriend, he decided to whip out a video camera and be all "YOU ARE A JERK WHY YOU STEAL MY BIKE! COPS ARE ON THE WAY!" Meh.
posted by koeselitz at 3:48 PM on August 16, 2012


I have had four or five bikes lifted over the years. My solution is to shrug and buy another cheap bike. The most annoying one was in 1993 when one was grabbed out of the back of my dad's truck: annoying because the culprits had broken in and taken the bike, worth maybe one percent of the value of the truck. My dad said, "At least we know how they made their getaway."
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:49 PM on August 16, 2012 [2 favorites]


Just call the cops, dumbass. They will deal with it.

Yeah, this isn't true, especially with bikes, but probably with anything less valuable than a car...maybe.

I had a Vespa pinched that was appraised at just under $6k after all of the restoration work I had put into it. (It actually was stolen, in the same neighborhood as this kids bike...). It was taken in broad daylight. Filed a police report, and an officer never even came out to take a statement or anything.

Most cops usually don't give a shit about this kind of stuff. Especially someone's bicycle. There are a few awesome individuals out there (PROPS TO THE PDX STOLEN GOODS UNIT! ALL THREE OF YOU!) but most of them don't want to deal with it.
posted by furnace.heart at 3:49 PM on August 16, 2012 [2 favorites]


Bicycle theft always makes me think of this true story these days.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:55 PM on August 16, 2012


Just call the cops, dumbass. They will deal with it.

I'll just check with the boys down at the crime lab, they've got four more detectives working on the case. They got us working in shifts!
posted by dubold at 3:56 PM on August 16, 2012 [42 favorites]


I can't believe the amount of haters in the various threads about this guy.

It's like yeah, how DARE you go take care of this yourself after

a) locking it correctly*
b) calling the Portland cops (who said they couldn't help because the bike was listed in Seattle)
c) calling the Seattle cops (who said they couldn't help because it was stolen from Portland)
d) trying to get in touch with the Craigslist, whose email script just fired auto-responders back at him with 'helpful FAQ' b.s. and "we can't provide information without a subpoena"

* I've seen this one a ton (40000 variations of "LOCK YOUR BIKE NEXT TIME IDIOT") and it's infuriating - the bike was locked with a Kryptonite U-lock when it was stolen.

Disclosure: I've spoken to this guy, he lives in my town and I run a site dedicated to finding stolen bikes. So we've back and forth'd a bit on this.
posted by bhance at 3:56 PM on August 16, 2012 [44 favorites]


Folks, it's not that dangerous to confront a bicycle thief in broad daylight in a public space with 2 friends backing you up and cops on the way. The odds of getting stabbed are plenty low, and after talking to the guy for a few minutes I think it was obvious he didn't come to meet a stranger off Craig's List with a weapon.

Dude says all the self-righteous shit I never got to say when my bike was stolen. Hat's off, says I.
posted by Peevish at 3:57 PM on August 16, 2012 [18 favorites]


Yeah, I get the impression that putting yourself into a potentially volatile situation is part of what ensures the police intervene - they're not worried about the property so much as the confrontation.
posted by anonymisc at 3:58 PM on August 16, 2012 [3 favorites]


People, people, people!

Solving things never solves anything. Just brings you down to their level.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 4:02 PM on August 16, 2012 [29 favorites]


Folks, it's not that dangerous to confront a bicycle thief in broad daylight in a public space with 2 friends backing you up and cops on the way.

I don't want to derail from the main subject, so I'll leave it at this. Like others said above, this situation worked out well for the guy involved; through a lot of determination and some out-right luck, all ended well for him. I guess I am doing a poor job of stating that this guy's MO is not exactly a blueprint to be followed.

Not that dangerous, and "odds are pretty low" aren't the sort of statements that I want to risk a lot on. Underdogs do cash in sometimes....
posted by Dark Messiah at 4:04 PM on August 16, 2012


I bought a bike just yesterday. I had no idea I was ensnaring myself in such an intense emotional bind.

(I haven't ridden a bike in almost two decades and had also forgotten what a fucker a headwind is. They didn't mention that in the shop.)
posted by tigrefacile at 4:08 PM on August 16, 2012


Oh, and the Typing Level: Seattle PD part made me snort.

Not me. The officer was typing the description into his mobile data terminal, and it was going out to all officers. I.e., he was taking this seriously. I suspect that's how the officers located running stolen bicycle trafficker man.

My only criticism is that Simon didn't contact the police before meeting the thief. They are generally very happy to be in the area for the scheduled meeting, as it is a very easy felony arrest for them.
posted by bearwife at 4:08 PM on August 16, 2012 [3 favorites]


That was awesome and it's more fun to appreciate it than to point out how it could have gone awry.

Just for extra Portland ironic hipster fun, I opened up a YT video of the theme to COPS to play over the last minute.

Bike thieves are an extra-special, high-test-grade level of jerk. I don't wish violence on anyone, but the thief here is lucky he is dealing with PNW pacifists and not NYC bike messengers.

I enjoyed seeing the perp get "cuffed and stuffed", especially since cops laugh at bike thefts. Thanks for the post.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 4:09 PM on August 16, 2012 [5 favorites]


Yeah, I can't stand all the condemnation of this guy; that's the REAL self-importance. I suspect it's because he had an expensive bike and of course lots of MeFi reflexively hates property owners and sides with even scummy "underdogs."

This guy is a hero, plain and simple, and a resourceful one to put it on Youtube for maximum deterrence value. I applaud his self-control in not trying to beat the shit out of the thief in secret instead.

Bicycle theft is exactly the kind of crime the cops will do nothing much to investigate. And the comments about being afraid of the thief -- while correct -- are very disheartening. Something is deeply wrong that people should be afraid of standing up to criminals.
posted by shivohum at 4:13 PM on August 16, 2012 [15 favorites]


bearwife: "Oh, and the Typing Level: Seattle PD part made me snort.

Not me. The officer was typing the description into his mobile data terminal, and it was going out to all officers. I.e., he was taking this seriously. I suspect that's how the officers located running stolen bicycle trafficker man.

My only criticism is that Simon didn't contact the police before meeting the thief. They are generally very happy to be in the area for the scheduled meeting, as it is a very easy felony arrest for them.
"

I meant to convey with the latter part of that comment (funny!) that it was indeed awesome. His fingers were movin' fast with the no-look head fake.
posted by lazaruslong at 4:15 PM on August 16, 2012 [2 favorites]


Way back in the 70s my friend's (pretty buff) brother walked out of Woolco to find some schmuck under the hood of his car disconnecting his battery. This was back when most cars didn't have an inside hood release. As he walked nonchalantly up to the front of the car, he said in his friendliest voice 'Oh hey, battery trouble! Need any help?" The guy just muttered "no" without looking up from what he was doing. So John brought the hood of the car down on the thief, holding him against hot radiator, all the while yelling at him how stupid he was, why he shouldn't steal, his questionable parentage, etc. Some times the good guy wins.
posted by Daddy-O at 4:15 PM on August 16, 2012 [14 favorites]


And christ, people try and make it sound like he timed the cops arriving all perfectly for the youtube video - he wasn't - he was standing there for 45 mins to an hour, making up fake stuff to talk to this guy about because the cops (who he'd been calling all morning saying he was going to meet this guy) were crazy late.

The guy's got a reddit thread that details a lot of this (including the name discrepancy - 'simon' was his fake CL name to bait the guy with, 'Jake' is his real name) maybe the vast majority of that isn't super clear from the video but goddamn. Freaking Monday morning quarterbacking haters gotta hate all over some guy who scores one for the good guys just because he makes a YT video about it.
posted by bhance at 4:17 PM on August 16, 2012 [23 favorites]


T.D. Strange : Write down the serial number, call the cops, report it stolen

...And then forget you ever owned a bike, because the police don't give the least damn about getting your stuff back.

If they happen to catch the guy by sheer random luck (like he rams your bike into the back of a police cruiser at a stoplight), you might get it back after it sits in an evidence locker for half a decade.
posted by pla at 4:17 PM on August 16, 2012 [3 favorites]


In the spirit of stupid stolen bike stories, did you hear the one about the guy who stole a bike here in Milwaukee?


In the middle of an endurance bike race?


Yeah, he didn't get away with it. (video)
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 4:20 PM on August 16, 2012 [7 favorites]


T.D. Strange : Write down the serial number, call the cops, report it stolen

...And then forget you ever owned a bike, because the police don't give the least damn about getting your stuff back.


This. I've had multiple bikes stolen. At best, the cops will try not to sigh audibly while they pretend to give a shit. At best, that is.
posted by nevercalm at 4:21 PM on August 16, 2012 [1 favorite]


Does anyone actually think criminals are on youtube saying, "Holy shit, we should stop stealing bikes!!" because of this guy?

Because they're not.
posted by PugAchev at 4:23 PM on August 16, 2012 [3 favorites]


And seriously, what's with all the bicyclist hate? If someone stole $2500 off of you, you'd just sit there and take it? Sure, he's annoying. But he went through a multi-state effort to get his shit back and actually accomplished it. Christ. Commenting isn't required.
posted by nevercalm at 4:25 PM on August 16, 2012 [5 favorites]


pacifists and not NYC bike messengers .

Oh man. Even the camerman got some kicks in.
posted by Ad hominem at 4:26 PM on August 16, 2012 [3 favorites]


PugAchev: "Does anyone actually think criminals are on youtube saying, "Holy shit, we should stop stealing bikes!!" because of this guy?

Because they're not.
"

Maybe not because of this one guy, but there has been an uptick in vigilante thief track-down videos over the last couple years for bikes, computers, etc. Is that having any effect? I don't know. Maybe? If not necessarily a downtick in theft, then maybe a downtick in successful fencing via Craigslist? It's debatable, for sure, and we would need evidence to really answer that question. But I don't think we can dismiss the effort as useless without looking into it more.
posted by lazaruslong at 4:27 PM on August 16, 2012 [2 favorites]


you might get it back after it sits in an evidence locker for half a decade.

or buy it back at the next police auction...
posted by kuppajava at 4:30 PM on August 16, 2012 [2 favorites]


koeselitz: "Just call the cops, dumbass. They will deal with it."

Leads, yeah, sure. I'll just check with the boys down at the crime lab, they've got four more detectives working on the case. They got us working in shifts!

Leads! hahahaha
posted by mullingitover at 4:36 PM on August 16, 2012 [5 favorites]


Way back in the 70s my friend's (pretty buff) brother walked out of Woolco to find some schmuck under the hood of his car disconnecting his battery. This was back when most cars didn't have an inside hood release. As he walked nonchalantly up to the front of the car, he said in his friendliest voice 'Oh hey, battery trouble! Need any help?" The guy just muttered "no" without looking up from what he was doing. So John brought the hood of the car down on the thief, holding him against hot radiator, all the while yelling at him how stupid he was, why he shouldn't steal, his questionable parentage, etc. Some times the good guy wins.

And sometimes things just come out.

Came back to my car in an underground parking lot and saw a big ripped hole under the handle of the drivers door. What the? Opened the car up and saw the stereo gone. Lots of swearing and cursing. I noticed a screwdriver laying on the passenger seat which I picked up. I then got out and walked around the car to see if there was anymore damage. Nada. Then as I was walking back around the corner to the drivers side this guy comes walking around the corner carrying a backpack. He stopped and I stopped just looking at each other. I then clued in that this was MY backpack and that got me angry. Car stereos I guess weren't a big deal but my backpack? That carried a good chunk of my life at the time.

I didn't even think, I was pissed. I swore at the guy, not even sure what I said and that he'd better give me the damn thing back. He stammered something, dropped the bag, actually said 'sorry' and took off. It wasn't until afterwards when I had time to think that I realized how sketchy it could have been. Underground parking lot, no one around, me being female and all. I figure that the shock of seeing me, my reaction and the screwdriver I happened to be holding must have done the trick. I dunno maybe I waved it around too while I was yelling.

I then drove straight to the nearest police station and filed a report. One of the officers did give me a bit of lecture about safety but I told him that it all happened so fast that instincts took over.
posted by Jalliah at 4:36 PM on August 16, 2012 [5 favorites]


Can't believe no one's done this yet.

Metafilter: The odds of getting stabbed are plenty low.
posted by fatbird at 4:51 PM on August 16, 2012 [4 favorites]


bhance: " I've seen this one a ton (40000 variations of "LOCK YOUR BIKE NEXT TIME IDIOT") and it's infuriating - the bike was locked with a Kryptonite U-lock when it was stolen."

In all fairness, using a u-lock isn't a great idea. Here's an example of someone popping a Krypto u-lock in about two minutes.

I use this beast, and I still sweat leaving my bike unattended for more than a few seconds.
posted by mullingitover at 4:51 PM on August 16, 2012


Cyclist here. People who aren't regular riders or bike nuts just don't understand how personal a bike is. I keep mine next to my bed, mainly because it's a convenient place for it but also it's reassuring to know that it's still there.

I've actually nightmares about having my bike stolen where I bolt upright yelling in my sleep and then I see that my bike is right there and I go "Oh, good" and I go back to sleep.

And my bike is just a fairly average decent bike, not a $2500 racing/sport bike.

But the price doesn't matter It could be a piece of junk someone bolted together out of spare parts - which may actually be more personally valuable to someone than a racing bike because they built it and fit it to themselves.

A bike isn't like a car. It's more like a horse. You have a relationship with it. For many people their bike is literally a life saver and/or best friend. It's not just a tool of fitness or transportation, it could also be a meal ticket, or a mental health aid.

So a lot of people don't understand how someone would risk their life to get their bike, but for some people not having that bike is already risking their life.

Many years ago I had a mid-range basic mountain bike and some gang bangers pulled up next to me at an intersection and said (direct quote) "Nice bike, esse."

"Thanks." I said.

"I think I'll take it," he said, and I looked over to see him pointing some piece of shit .22 or .38 Saturday Night Special gun at me out of the window of their low rider. It was so cheap it looked fake and may even have been, but either way I honestly didn't care.

"No you won't. My bike is my life. If you take my bike you might as well shoot me. And if you miss I'm probably going to flip the fuck out and eat your face."

Gang banger dude wasn't expecting this response. "You have balls, esse." and they drove off. Yeah, I was alarmed but the exchange was honest. If they'd tried to take my bike from me, I would have crawled face first into that car land fought like a rapid, pissed off badger. There would be blood.

Let me put it another way - I just crashed my bike pretty bad. The first thing I was concerned about was my bike, but it was ok so only then was I pissed off about the half-square foot of deep road rash all over my knee and legs.

Right now I'm mainly annoyed that I can't bend my knee far enough to ride my bike. I've literally been bending my knee to crack the scab to restore flexibility so I can ride sooner. I'm not afraid of my bike because of the crash - I'm actually now more eager to get back on the back now that I can't. Yet.


Another thing most non-cyclists don't understand is that cops don't care.

Not only do they not care, most of them actively hate cyclists. If they show up to take a stolen bike report usually it will take hours or it'll be the next day. If you're really extraordinarily lucky they might accidentally recover your bike by running into the thief on the street, but they're not going to be out looking for him or actually expending energy looking for the bike. If you're lucky they might be on a call somewhere else and your bike might be there, and they might remember that it's yours if it was recent enough.

But they'll mainly only be interested in it because they could slap another charge on their perp, not because they found your precious bike.

Then you also have to be lucky enough to have the impound warehouse call you and successfully match your bike to you. This almost never happens.

You generally have to go to the impound yard/warehouse armed with photos and a receipt of purchase and look for it yourself before it gets auctioned off wholesale.


So, one of the reasons why Simon got such a quick police response is because after meeting the thief he went into the bank under the cover story of withdrawing money to buy the bike. He was in the bank when he asked them to call security and the police.

When you're in a bank and you utter the words "Help, I'm being robbed, call the police." in a bank it tends to provoke a multi-car armed response.

That was either smart tactics or dumb luck.

And really? Simon handled this well.

Sure, shouting "Citizen's Arrest" may be too weird or Barney Fife for you, but when your stolen property is right there in front of you it's a perfectly valid action, even if it's legally a gray area or totally fictitious. You're not saying it for the benefit of the criminal, you're saying it so the people in public around you don't think you're just mugging some guy, and that you actually want them to call the police on your behalf.

He managed to mainly keep his cool. The bike thief didn't get his ass kicked by Simon.

If I was in the same situation, I don't think I could have kept my cool like that. I probably would have just decked the bike thief pretty badly and taken my bike back. I would have cared less about the due process of law or nailing him for felony theft charges.

I feel the same way about bike thieves as I do horse thieves - hanging is too good for them.

But Simon did the right thing. He actually used the laws on the books that are designed to deal with this kind of crime. He apprehended the perp himself and directed the police to him and successfully recovered his property without resorting to physical violence.

Again, bikes are very personal things. They're not just transportation. They're mental/physical health aids, best friend or even a healthy addiction. Often times you can't just have insurance replace your bike almost exactly the way it was like you can with a car or a TV.

Messing with someone's bike could be messing with their life.


This video actually made me think about starting a professional bike recovery and repo service. I was having visions of a crack team of internet detectives and a few big, beefy cyclists to go do recoveries and scare the crap out of bike thieves before getting the police involved to take the thief away.

The only thing that's stopping me from thinking that this is a good idea is profitability. Most cyclists couldn't afford to pay enough to make it profitable, much less cover costs for things like traveling between cities.

As for the danger? We're talking about justice, here. The danger would be exciting and entertaining. I'd love that part, especially the part about scaring the crap out of bike thieves and perhaps making it much less attractive and much more risky to steal bicycles.

And most petty bike thieves aren't going to risk armed assault or manslaughter to defend their thefts. They're already cowards. All they want to do is bolt from the scene and get away.

Anyway, fuck bike thieves.
posted by loquacious at 4:52 PM on August 16, 2012 [47 favorites]


loquacious, your professional bike recovery and repo service could make money... if it was a reality show. Think about it.
posted by Roger Dodger at 5:05 PM on August 16, 2012 [4 favorites]


If you're really extraordinarily lucky they might accidentally recover your bike by running into the thief on the street, but they're not going to be out looking for him or actually expending energy looking for the bike.

I think this is more because it'll take them two days of actively looking full time to maybe find a bike and they could be getting three other easier felony arrests in that time than anything to do with hating cyclists, but I could just be an optimist about cops. Theft in general seems to be pretty low priority with them, not just bike theft.

FWIW, the UCDavis police were very polite about taking bike theft reports, but they'd tell you up front that it's unlikely the bike's would be recovered. I managed to get mine back the first two times it was stolen. The first time by doing a foot search (craigslist wasn't around then) because the thieves just moved it a block over to come back with a van later and pick it up, and once the cops found it for me.
posted by BrotherCaine at 5:06 PM on August 16, 2012


loquacious, roger dodger: www.tocatchabikethief.com
posted by bhance at 5:14 PM on August 16, 2012


I've had Seattle Police shrug their shoulders over a few different events and just mumble something about insurance. People doing things like this makes way more sense to me based on those past experiences.
posted by Rocket Surgeon at 5:19 PM on August 16, 2012 [1 favorite]


I had a bike stolen in 1996, and I still find myself checking bike racks for it.

"People who aren't regular riders or bike nuts just don't understand how personal a bike is." —loquacious

This is so true. If you you ride a lot, your bike is an extension of yourself. You've spent money, money and time getting it just right, getting it to fit, making many mico adjustments. Finding a saddle you meld with.

My bikes have adaptions for my (admittedly minor) physical issues that makes them even harder to replace.

And I can't believe people here are surprised about a $2500 bike. You realize that's a mid-range bike don't you? Go to any bike shop and look at road bikes. It may sound like a lot to non-riders, but how much is a high end Mac, a ski boat, or any number of other things we spend money on. If cycling is what you do and who you are, compared to being a automobile enthusiast or any number of other things, it's pretty cheap.

I hate bike thieves. Even though I strongly oppose the death penalty, I sometimes wonder....
posted by cccorlew at 5:26 PM on August 16, 2012 [2 favorites]


This is the day for shit that actually happened to me getting posted to metafilter. (Previously I accidentally adopted a crow).

I also caught my bike thief when I was BMXer back during high school. (Only because I recognized the cheap painted stainless seat post clamp of a friend's also stolen bike. That is how personal bikes were to me.)

Turned him in to the cops after confronting his completely uncooperative parents with my dad.

The result? I got 95% of my bike back about a month later and I got several beatings from the perpetrators who were a gang of older and bigger kids who would catch me in a shopping mall parking lot on my way back from high school. They got off scott free as young offenders I assume. Maybe I should look them up on facebook for fun?

Catching criminals often isn't the end of your problems. Sometimes it is the start of even bigger ones.
posted by srboisvert at 5:31 PM on August 16, 2012 [2 favorites]


Dude, you would have found your bike at . . . The ALAMO!
posted by jfwlucy at 5:35 PM on August 16, 2012


And I can't believe people here are surprised about a $2500 bike. You realize that's a mid-range bike don't you? Go to any bike shop and look at road bikes. It may sound like a lot to non-riders, but how much is a high end Mac, a ski boat, or any number of other things we spend money on. If cycling is what you do and who you are, compared to being a automobile enthusiast or any number of other things, it's pretty cheap.

When I worked at a bike shop 20 years ago (yikes time flies) $2500 was pretty average for people really into MT biking or road cycling. My own bike cost $1000 retail and by the time I had upgraded, tinkered and changed out components to be exactly the way I wanted it, it had well over another grand retail put into it. It was quite normal for the really serious to start at the 2500 range and go from there. Heck we sold just frames that cost a grand.
posted by Jalliah at 5:36 PM on August 16, 2012


Cops often don't do shit. I once somehow pulled a guy off the highway who was driving like 10 miles an hour in Connecticut. I was driving a regular car. Once we got off the off ramp I got out of my car, entered his car and took his keys. He was reeking of booze and there were empty beer bottles all over the passenger front seat. I called the cops. They came. Talked to him, then let him drive home (followed him). Go Connecticut.
posted by pallen123 at 5:42 PM on August 16, 2012 [1 favorite]


I've been robbed too tho not bike and it sucks. My bag, and it had my keys and of course my address, and of course I was by myself in this creepy Lower East Side apartment when at 2 am this guy is like HELLO I HAVE YOUR BAG COME AND GET IT on the intercom.

Buuuuut going vigilante is the ethos that powered Bernie Goetz. I can't get behind that, even if somebody is stealing people's adorable pet cats (but I would cry about it).
posted by angrycat at 5:42 PM on August 16, 2012


So, maybe just me, but I'm not sure I'd consider "showing up and getting stuff stuff back and then helping the cops find the guy" as 'vigilante'.

If he had beaten the thief senseless and then taken his wallet, sure.

But nonviolently confronting the guy on camera and then chasing him when he runs? Not really Bernie Goetz material.
posted by bhance at 6:05 PM on August 16, 2012 [5 favorites]


When you've spent years outfitting it with the stuff you need, maintaining it, and you rely on it every day, a theft is really personal - it's someone punching you in the face and kicking you when you're down for a few lousy bucks

Hell yeah. There's a reason this was once the penalty for horse theft. Folks whose main reaction to this episode is sneering at the guy who put together a plan to get his vehicle back from the scumbag who stole it* just astound me with their take on the world. I mean, I know people like that are out there, and in here, but every time I actually meet one of them my jaw drops all over again.

What the hell are their brains doing? I have no idea how that must feel.

*(ok, calling the cops to tell them you've set up a sting before you actually are in the sting would have been smarter)
posted by mediareport at 6:06 PM on August 16, 2012 [2 favorites]


This video actually made me think about starting a professional bike recovery and repo service. I was having visions of a crack team of internet detectives and a few big, beefy cyclists to go do recoveries and scare the crap out of bike thieves before getting the police involved to take the thief away.

This could probably work: get cyclists to register and GPS tag their bikes with you, paying *bmumbly* dollars a year for the service. Hire a couple of retired cops or private investigators, and figure out a way to insure that the dudes actually get charged when the bikes are recovered. If you did this in a mid-sized city it would have a certain attrition on bike theft.

And yes, cops do not care. In fact, I think that for most forms of theft that aren't grand larceny they actively discourage people from reporting them.
posted by jrochest at 6:09 PM on August 16, 2012


I have a hard time with this, because I feel like there are no good guys here. At the same time, I'm not sure I would have done anything different if my crappy bike was stolen and I found the thief. I guess this is a good object lesson for me.

But mostly, what I want to say is, FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS + FIRST WORLD SOLUTION.

Sorry for flogging a dead meme.
posted by mudpuppie at 6:09 PM on August 16, 2012


I'm sort of in a middle-ground on the extremes I see in this thread. I find the "my spiritual bond with my bike is inviolable and you can't fathom it" crowd to be kind of... mystifying, and find the "it's just a bike, what's the big deal" crowd to be displaying quite a bit of ignorance about what, exactly, the big deal is.

My bikes are my only vehicles. I ride them daily; and I am utterly dependent on them for transport/work/play. My bike is probably my most important single possession. Its hypothetical theft from me would cause me all sorts of problems: but has nothing to do with "identity" or some "deep bond between man and machine" -- it has everything to do with a financial pain in the ass, and the way bike theft is (not) addressed by U.S. Law Enforcement.

My bike cost, new, a bit shy of $900. I've put maybe another $400 into it, and maybe 40 hours of labor. If it gets stolen tomorrow I don't give two fucks about my "missing life partner" or whatever -- I'm righteously pissed to the tune of $1,300 and 40 hours of labor, and a loss of mobility that I can not afford.

The theft will never be investigated by law enforcement, and I can't insure myself against it, and we have a transportation/law enforcement culture that treats this type of theft as trivial. But seen from my end, it could do a pretty good job of more-or-less sinking me for a number of months.

To the "What's the big deal? crowd: Imagine a radically different world where you had to carry your most valuable and useful possession around with you and lock it in public spaces every day. Further, imagine this is an uninsurable item whose loss would push your finances into insolvency, all while taking away your mobility. Sux rite?

To the "don't touch my chariot/bike thieves should be executed" crowd: Don't hate the player, hate the game. U.S. Law enforcement/transportation culture has created a high-reward, fairly low-risk target, parked on racks and distributed liberally. Why would anybody be surprised that folks would come and fill that niche? Nothing especially evil that distinguishes bike thieves from other thieves. Sucks to get something valuable stolen from you, period.

(But it sucks even more to have this constant looming threat, and little by way of recourse. This makes cyclists edgy; and poorer cyclists doubly so. I hope the non-biking crowd has been able to understand this feeling a bit more through the comments in this thread.)
posted by jjjjjjjijjjjjjj at 6:13 PM on August 16, 2012 [8 favorites]


The theft will never be investigated by law enforcement, and I can't insure myself against it

If you have rental insurance, it may well cover your bike. USAA has replaced more than one bike for my husband.
posted by charmcityblues at 6:16 PM on August 16, 2012


Nothing especially evil that distinguishes bike thieves from other thieves.

Totally disagree. It's emotional, I know. But totally fucking disagree.
posted by mediareport at 6:20 PM on August 16, 2012 [1 favorite]


And yes, cops do not care. In fact, I think that for most forms of theft that aren't grand larceny they actively discourage people from reporting them.
posted by jrochest


Friend of mine's wife stopped at a convenience store on the way home to buy some sort of stuff for her kids (diapers, milk or something). The cashier rings up the price and as she's setting the money on the counter, the guy behind her in line snatches it up and runs out of the store. Big argument ensues with the cashier who claims it was her money who was stolen and that she owes him for the stuff. And a long wait for cops who never showed up (evidently the guy just hung outside the store, probably waiting for his next victim or maybe to buy some beer with her money).
posted by 445supermag at 6:20 PM on August 16, 2012


> If you have rental insurance, it may well cover your bike.
I don't. But I've also not ever heard of my friends with renters insurance ever making a successful claim for a bike that wasn't stolen from off their premises. Not saying that such a policy doesn't exist; just that if it does my friends haven't been able to find/afford it.
posted by jjjjjjjijjjjjjj at 6:21 PM on August 16, 2012 [1 favorite]


If you have rental insurance, it may well cover your bike.

The point is that insuring the bike doesn't cover him against his actual losses if the bike is stolen, only some money for the lost bike.

Hell, when your car is stolen, insurance provides a rental immediately to keep your life from collapsing while you sort out insurance and shop for a replacement. Wake up one morning to a missing bike and no way to clock in on time, sucks to be you.
posted by anonymisc at 6:23 PM on August 16, 2012 [1 favorite]


Locks like mullingitover's are part of why all bicycles weigh about 30 lbs. Either it's a cheap, crappy heavy bike with a flimsy lock or a nice light bike lashed down with anchor chains.
posted by Chef Flamboyardee at 6:46 PM on August 16, 2012




One night out at a bar, a group of people sitting near me suddenly jumped out of their seats and ran into the road to chase down a bike burglar who had just clipped a lock on one of their bikes within view of the bar. I mean, they actually ran the thief down in the middle of the street as he was riding it away. Whoever was at the lead of this mad scramble somehow knocked the thief off the bike, and then restrained him until the police came. It was both the most amazing and most incredibly stupid thing I've ever witnessed. I think I'd do the same thing, but then again, I'm an idiot.
posted by deathpanels at 7:19 PM on August 16, 2012 [5 favorites]


with anything less valuable than a car

Newsflash: cops don't care about stolen cars either.

I read a while back about car theft in NYC: tens of thousands of thefts per year, zero people in jail for car theft. The punishment-free crime.

Or rather, it's not that they don't care, but stolen cars, like stolen bikes, are impossible to investigate. If they happen to run across it, great, but it's not like they're going to sit there typing every license plate they see into the computer. If your car is stolen, there will be a report made, but approximately zero seconds investigating the case. Where would you even start?

What they do is start from the other end. They look for car THIEVES, and then try to figure out what they stole. When our car was stolen, six months later the cops drove by with a thief in the back seat, a guy who stole a hundred cars in a couple of months. They didn't catch him looking for our Honda; they didn't even try. They found him selling hot Honda parts in a dubious garage.

Frankly, it was scary just seeing the guy. Similarly to the time I got clubbed on the head at the restaurant I was working at, by the busboy after hours -- he came in after his jail sentence to apologize, and I damn near passed out; my guts just dropped out from under me at the sight of him.

I was in my apartment basement doing my laundry once, when I saw a guy bolt out with a stolen bike. I called the cops, and they immediately came and picked me up and drove me around to see if I could spot the guy. I couldn't, and the case was dropped. There's nothing to investigate, once it's entered the regular world. Think about it: you're a cop, driving around. How many bikes, how many cars do you see?
posted by Fnarf at 7:25 PM on August 16, 2012


Yeah... Nthing the "call the cops" advice, especially if you have specific identifying details that can prove that the stuff is yours.

One of my friends had about $20,000 of recording gear stolen out of the back of his van. Unfortunately for the thief, this guy had a real penchant for unusual audio gear – seriously esoteric stuff. So much, in fact, that he had a few items that were literally one-of-a-kind.

Lo and behold, a month later, a few of these one-of-a-kind items showed up in a listing several hundred miles away. Even though he'd made it most of the way through making an insurance claim at this point, he just wanted his stuff back, got letters and proof-of-purchase from all the manufacturers of his rarer gear, and contacted the local police. They arrested the guy the next day.

If you come across a craigslist listing, and can conclusively prove that it's really your stuff, apparently the cops can be very responsive.

Fnarf: "If they happen to run across it, great, but it's not like they're going to sit there typing every license plate they see into the computer"

Actually, that's exactly what lots of urban cops do now. In DC, most police cars and buses have cameras that snap every single license plate that they drive past. The cameras then compare the plates to their database of stolen cars, expired registrations, residential parking permits, hourly parking restrictions, etc,. and automatically dispatches a parking enforcement officer to deal with the situation if necessary.

It's scary efficient.
posted by schmod at 7:37 PM on August 16, 2012 [1 favorite]


Once my car was broken into, windows smashed all to hell, seats full of broken glass, bunch of stuff stolen out of it. I called the cops and one cop came and waved hello, only because she was already on the street, and flat out said that STL PD doesn't have time to bother catching thieves of whole cars, let alone thieves of stuff from cars. Laughed a little, in a friendly, black humor sort of way, while she said it. And left. The thieves were never caught; my stuff was never returned.

Someone attempted to break into my house once, while my kid and I were both sleeping in it. The cops came out, poked around for ten minutes, carelessly destroyed evidence, did not take so much as a photo of the attempted break-in points, let alone fingerprints. Never called me back.

This dude stole my purse right off my body once, when I was a broke starving college student, as I was walking home from the grocery store. Came up and grabbed me and snatched it -- and with it my state ID and my student ID and my (empty) ATM card and my very last ten dollars. To add insult to injury he stole two bags of groceries from my roommate, who was walking beside me, too. It was all we had to eat for the week. And I mean all.

I chased that asshole six city blocks while my roommate flagged down a cop car, in a white hot driven rage. That thief got caught.

Stupid? Yes. Dangerous? Yes. The only time someone who stole something from me has ever actually been arrested? Also, yes.
posted by BlueJae at 7:45 PM on August 16, 2012 [9 favorites]


Hmm. So I watched the video about 70 comments ago, and then had to do some stuff, so I may misread the tone of the thread, but here was my impression:

- He was way more successful in his endeavour, particularly in his recording, than I had or would have expected
- He wasn't the raging dick that a couple of early commenters made him out to be

I mean, he was angry. That was clear enough. And had a right to be. And had the time and the resources not to say "fuck it" but actually decide to try to make the thief regret what he did. Could have turned out badly. Didn't. Bravo, I say.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 8:00 PM on August 16, 2012 [2 favorites]


Has the internet made me so cynical that I thought this might be a viral ad for the Burner app? I started hearing about both right around the same time..

In any case, glad to know this guy got his bike back. Cyclists all over must dream about doing this to thieves. The dream of these cyclists is alive in Portland.
posted by mariokrat at 8:12 PM on August 16, 2012


My favorite part is where all he has to do is engage the guy in conversation for like 15 minutes until the cops come but he decides to whip his camera phone out and go BLUURRRRRRRRRRRGH instead.

That's cute, but has nothing to do with what actually happened. From the AP:

The trio drove north and met the seller outside a grocery store. The others called police as Gillum started chatting with the seller, later identified as Craig Eric Ackerman, also of Portland.

Gillum said that about 40 minutes later, police still hadn’t arrived and the seller seemed to be getting nervous, so Gillum agreed to buy it and said he needed to walk inside a nearby bank. A teller told him she would call security, and Gillum walked back outside and began filming.

“Here’s the deal. I live in Portland, and you stole my bicycle,” Gillum says.


Which, of course, is where the linked video begins.
posted by mediareport at 8:32 PM on August 16, 2012 [4 favorites]


That's cute, but has nothing to do with what actually happened.

It's exactly what was depicted in the video though. Dude definitely needs better edit skills, though to be fair his bike thief catching skills are pretty decent.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:04 PM on August 16, 2012


I have a hard time with this, because I feel like there are no good guys here.

Seriously?
posted by spaltavian at 9:10 PM on August 16, 2012


If nothing else, I think we can all agree that reedy middle-class-type white guys need to realize that profanity does not make them sound like hard men.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:11 PM on August 16, 2012 [5 favorites]


It's exactly what was depicted in the video though.

No, you assumed the video started at the beginning of the conversation. Understandable, but wrong.
posted by mediareport at 9:11 PM on August 16, 2012 [1 favorite]


"My buddies are going to call police ... 911"

This is what makes it Total Self-obsessed Douchebaggery, for me.

I am not surprised that police took 45 minutes to turn up. I wouldn't have been particularly surprised if the 911 operator swore at them and hung up. But of course, they wouldn't, not even to drips like this who don't realise that maybe, emergency operators and Police have more important things to attend to.
posted by Catch at 9:12 PM on August 16, 2012


I've also not ever heard of my friends with renters insurance ever making a successful claim for a bike that wasn't stolen from off their premises. Not saying that such a policy doesn't exist; just that if it does my friends haven't been able to find/afford it.

State Farm Insurance, less than $20 a month. My wife and I filed a claim for two stolen bikes, which were taken from in front of a gym on our college campus (we were inside for less than 20 min in broad daylight). Called the police, filed a claim, paid the deductible, replaced the bikes, would still take the opportunity to kneecap the bastard who stole them if possible, and that was at least 6 years ago now. So yes, you can get renter's insurance to cover things, but you probably need a police report to prove they were stolen.
posted by caution live frogs at 9:44 PM on August 16, 2012 [1 favorite]


I can't believe what people are saying here. The cops have something better to do, getting your property back is self-obsessed douchebaggery, and the rest of the people saying it is too dangerous.

You guys are all perfect victims.

The guy got ripped off and went and got his stuff back, justice was done and no one was hurt. This is the best possible world and I am glad that someone is standing up for himself, because it is obvious that most people won't and what I think I am hearing are people rationalizing their jealousy.
posted by psycho-alchemy at 9:46 PM on August 16, 2012 [14 favorites]


"I bought this on Craigslist. I knew it was stolen, but it's not illegal to buy stolen stuff. I looked it up, dude."

He went full Ricky from Trailer Park Boys.
posted by dirigibleman at 9:47 PM on August 16, 2012 [6 favorites]


I am not surprised that police took 45 minutes to turn up. I wouldn't have been particularly surprised if the 911 operator swore at them and hung up. But of course, they wouldn't, not even to drips like this who don't realise that maybe, emergency operators and Police have more important things to attend to.

Come on, that seems unnecessarily harsh. Catching thieves is still part of what police are supposed to do so why wouldn't they respond to a request to come and arrest a suspected thief? If your point is that they shouldn't have called 911 for a non-emergency situation, well, you might be surprised at what kinds of things you're supposed to call 911 for. In my city at least you're supposed to call 911 even for things like car alarms going off repeatedly.

My bike theft story: I used to work in my boss's basement which had a door going out to the backyard. I had ridden my bike to work and just left it in his backyard without locking it up (nothing to lock it to, for one thing). I'm working away when all of a sudden my boss leaps up and runs outside at top speed. I turn around to see what's going on and see him leap onto this guy that's riding away on my bike. He then punched the guy in the head and frog-marched him off the property. It was amazing, especially since my boss is tall but not very imposing otherwise. We called the police and they came by and drove around looking for him but of course he was long gone. Shortly afterwards my boss built a fence across the backyard so that random people couldn't come in from the alley anymore.
posted by fansler at 9:55 PM on August 16, 2012


But of course, they wouldn't, not even to drips like this who don't realise that maybe, emergency operators and Police have more important things to attend to.

I know. They need to call the other police, the ones who are responsible for arresting felony thieves.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 10:09 PM on August 16, 2012 [2 favorites]


I don't care how he came across in the video, I applaud Simon for doing what had to be done. I hope this video inspires others, and gives that thief a good taste. Feeling powerless as a victim is far worse than losing the property.
posted by hanoixan at 10:26 PM on August 16, 2012 [2 favorites]


I just remembered my own worst bike theft story, something I've generally blocked out.

I was about 18, and I was homeless. I had a nice Nishiki mountain bike that my good, natural dad bought for me, but oldschool hard forks/tail. It was a good bike and I'd only had it for a few months.

I accidentally fell asleep reading a book under the pier in Seal Beach, California. My bike was unlocked. I was an idiot.

I woke up and it was gone. So were my shoes. And my wallet. And my Walkman, headphones and tapes. It was like waking up to a knife in my gut. I walked barefoot to the nearest payphone and collect-called a few people. The first number to answer and accept was a new friend - a friend of a friend. He was this gay kid my age who was like a walking Akbar-Jeff shape and texture, but without so much of the deadly cynicism.

He lived with his accepting and awesome parents in a new McMansion down the road a few miles in Huntington Beach. I was crying, and he said I was welcome there if I could walk there.

I walked there in my socks. It sucked. I cried most of the way. I got there and he gave me something to eat and drink, sent me to a shower, and gave me clean socks. If I recall correctly our mutual friend came over and we hung out, and I spent the night in a spare room or even hanging out on the floor or something. He was a good kid, no, a great kid. He read my orientation correctly and never tried to get down my pants, and was just all wholesome sympathy and comfort and awesome.

A few months later I was walking along the PCH bike trail and boardwalk and saw some shifty-looking shirtless beach rat riding my bike towards me. MY BIKE. MY STICKERS. EVEN MY STUPID FAT BOY GEL SEAT COVER.

I yelled something and ran after him. He freaked out and threw it into high gear. I chased him for about two miles from Warner/PCH to about Golden West and PCH, yelling about my stolen bike the entire way. I fucking hate running. I'll walk 20+ miles but I hate running unless I'm being chased by an apex predator. That's probably the longest I've ever run at full speed without stopping in my entire life. I had a sideache like a burst appendix. I was blowing snot and fluids out of my face trying to breathe.

Plenty of people stared and went "WTF" but no one stopped him or even said anything. Eventually I couldn't see him anymore and I just collapsed, crying in a fetal position in a patch of iceplant and sand on the side of the trail. No one said anything then, either.

That day probably sucked about as bad as the day the bike was initially stolen.

If I'd caught him, I would have probably beat his ass. I fully intended to tackle him and permanently rearrange his face or die trying. I was fantasizing about it in detail even through the pain of running. I wanted him to know - in detail - how badly he fucked my shit up and I intended to tell him all about it.

I'm normally not like that. I tolerate a wide variety of bad behavior and choose peace even at the risk of personal injury or death. I wade into bar fights with hugs and sometimes even get knocked out for my erroneous efforts.

But I wanted to fucking kill that guy. I was like some kind of feral, rabid animal.

I never saw that bike again. It was a nice bike. Fuck you, crusty beach bum bike thief guy. Fuck you for ripping off some poor homeless kid.
posted by loquacious at 10:31 PM on August 16, 2012 [12 favorites]


I know. They need to call the other police, the ones who are responsible for arresting felony thieves.

Those police are easy to summon. Just throw a brick at a bank window and wait. They'll be there in under a minute or two with bells on and an extraordinary amount of energy and attention.

Oddly enough they never show up when the bank itself commits felony thievery.
posted by loquacious at 10:33 PM on August 16, 2012 [2 favorites]


harsh

Eh.

I think this is one of those situations where massive cultural differences come into play, and the best thing is to cheerfully agree to disagree.

It's probably because I'm a Rugged Colonial, but I just don't see that a situation where you've surprised, isolated, and outnumbered the guy who stole your natty velocipede - and you have said NV back in your possession - qualifies as an Emergency Situation requiring immediate police backup and a whole lot of shrieking in the street.

Making and publishing a self-aggrandising video of the whole affair as if it were some OMG DRAMA! is also not what I've been conditioned to understand as the actions of a grown-ass man grown up person.

But I guess I can believe that it's an acquired taste, like Vegemite.
posted by Catch at 11:13 PM on August 16, 2012 [1 favorite]


Catching thieves is still part of what police are supposed to do so

Cops are useless and while you might believe they should be catching thieves, their own priorities are elsewhere. Cops always go for the low hanging fruit, which most mundane crimes like bike thefts aren't.
posted by MartinWisse at 11:15 PM on August 16, 2012


I mean, they actually ran the thief down in the middle of the street as he was riding it away. Whoever was at the lead of this mad scramble somehow knocked the thief off the bike, and then restrained him until the police came.

My roommate in the southeast SF Bay did that when his bike got stolen. I'm not sure but if I had to guess it was probably worth less than $300. He sees the thief riding the bike at the intersection and runs him down on foot, drags him back to the sidewalk and flags down a nearby cop in his police cruiser, the same one who had been taking down the report of his stolen bike just minutes before. My roommate was a pretty big guy and likely was pretty intimidating as he ran at the thief. Not sure I could have pulled off anything similar, but it was satisfying knowing he got his bike back just minutes after finding out it was stolen. Thing is ... he used to leave it unlocked outside all the time when he went into a store for a quick purchase. I was always surprised it didn't get stolen more often, but IIRC he started locking it after that happened.
posted by krinklyfig at 12:57 AM on August 17, 2012


A few years ago I didn't have a bike and was using my girlfriend's 1000$+ mountain bike since she never rode it. Then we broke up and a month or so later I decided I needed my own. Started looking through craigslist and came across one that looked just like hers, but the seller was asking for like 7 or 8 hundred for it, way out of my price range.

Then a few days later I saw my ex pop up on msn messenger with her status line reading 'some fucker stole my bike!!' or something similar. When I went and found the c'list ad and sent it to her, her only response was to the effect of "Oh, that sucks..." I just didn't understand that mentality of letting it go, especially when most of her friends were rather large and intimidating hip hop mc's and producers. I wouldn't have hesitated to round up a few of my scrawny stoner friends to go meet the guy and get my bike back.

Also in the case of this video, I really don't think there was much danger of getting stabbed. Beyond the factors of broad daylight, busy street, element of surprise and having friends as backup, I'm assuming he carried some kind of weapon for self-defense - maybe not a knife, but mace or something like that.
posted by mannequito at 1:25 AM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]


It's like yeah, how DARE you go take care of this yourself after

a) locking it correctly*


You can't leave a $2500 bike outside, regardless of the lock. If someone isn't succesful in stealing it, they'll bungle it all up trying and leave you with a twisted mess.

Of course, nobody deserves to have their bike stolen and I'm glad that he got it back. It's just supid to leave it outside. It's an unfortunate state of affairs.
posted by beau jackson at 6:26 AM on August 17, 2012


Back in college, as I was walking back to my apartment from the grocery store, bags in hand, I passed a rack of locked bikes and a dude trying to jimmy open a lock with a pen. Dude clearly looked out of place for the area, dude clearly didn't own that bike, and dude was clearly trying to steal it. I stopped and asked, "hey, is that your bike?" and he said, "yeah lost the key," and I said, "that's weird...because that's my bike." (It wasn't my bike.) Dude said, "oh, yeah, well, yeah, I mean, I've got one exactly like it" and ran off.

No one else was around, I suppose I probably could have gotten stabbed, but crimeny...you can't let the assholes win.
posted by phunniemee at 6:50 AM on August 17, 2012 [3 favorites]


Catch: ""My buddies are going to call police ... 911"

This is what makes it Total Self-obsessed Douchebaggery, for me.

I am not surprised that police took 45 minutes to turn up. I wouldn't have been particularly surprised if the 911 operator swore at them and hung up. But of course, they wouldn't, not even to drips like this who don't realise that maybe, emergency operators and Police have more important things to attend to.
"

You do realize that not every call to 911 has to be about a quadruple murder that's just gone down, right? This fits firmly in the 'call the police using the emergency number' slot; it was a felony, though even if the bike had only been valued at $100 the call still would've been completely justified. I would've been right pissed off had this been me and the cops took so long. Again, felony caught on tape.

I can't help but wonder if the people who're crying about the bike owner being a self-obsessed douchebag have unlimited access to daddy's credit card or own a bike but just because it looks cool propped up in their dining room or both. There is very much an emotional attachment to a bicycle. To a person who not only needs to cycle but who absolutely loves it, a bike is an extension of the body - it's like getting an artificial leg or your hand-hook stolen. You know what, though? It doesn't matter if the object is sacred or not, theft is theft and those cops did a damn lousy job, as is to be expected by big city police.

The only surprising part of this incident is that Simon and his friends were able to restrain themselves from beating the thief to a bloody pulp with their locks. I've little doubt that it took a whole hell of a lot of restraint on their part, as coming face to face with some dick who's had his grubby thieving hands all over your precious has got to be an extremely emotional experience. I'm glad they didn't kick the shit out of him, of course, because that's not something that I ever really like to see happen, but still it had to have been difficult.
posted by item at 6:56 AM on August 17, 2012 [4 favorites]


You know, I'm always reading these anecdotes about how police don't have time to investigate bike thefts. Or car thefts. Or home burglaries. etc. etc.

I am kind of left wondering WTF these cops are actually doing. Toronto's police budget is a billion dollars.
posted by sevenyearlurk at 6:56 AM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]


And, yeah, Simon's a dick who doesn't care about his bike or his personal safety as much as he cares about making a cool video and feeling like a badass.

Just call the cops, dumbass. They will deal with it. Typing skills notwithstanding.


It’s kind of funny how well people think they come off in comparison to Simon in the match of the internet blowhards.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 7:09 AM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]


Cops are useless and while you might believe they should be catching thieves, their own priorities are elsewhere. Cops always go for the low hanging fruit, which most mundane crimes like bike thefts aren't.

C'mon now. I agree that cops won't take any individual bike theft seriously and won't devote any resources to finding it but if someone calls to tell the police that they have a bike thief right there then yeah, I suspect they'll show up to make an arrest. I mean, isn't that pretty much the definition of low-hanging fruit? Someone else has already done all the hard work!

Also, this idea that once you get your bike back you should just let the thief go is ridiculous. If nothing else, getting the guy arrested means that there will be one less bike thief around for a while.
posted by fansler at 7:33 AM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]


You guys are all perfect victims.

Feel better now?

Because that's actually what this is all about. We're not "all perfect victims;" we're likely just people who aren't as subconsciously terrified of being a victim one day that we need unique, random happy stories about vigilante justice to feel better about our preemptive fears of victimization.

I'm glad the guy got his bike back. When my car was busted into two years ago, I was pissed for a few hours too and then I called my insurance company. Please, do so kindly forgive me for allowing such a "perfect" thing to have occurred because I responded with dealing with awful shit and then moving forward with my life instead of engaging in Batman fantasies. But again, thanks for suggesting I deserved it if that gave you the warm fuzzies on the internet for twenty minutes.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 7:46 AM on August 17, 2012


Durn Bronzefist: “It’s kind of funny how well people think they come off in comparison to Simon in the match of the internet blowhards.”

It's kind of funny how you can apologize for saying something dumb but nobody will ever read it.
posted by koeselitz at 8:19 AM on August 17, 2012


Indeed. Sorry, koeselitz. People was meant to be plural, though. I wonder if the other half dozen people who seem to think a certain look or attitude puts Simon on equal footing with the bike thief have also re-thought their views.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 8:33 AM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]


As others have noted, I thought it was important that Simon did a good job of not escalating the confrontation - yeah he chased after him while swearing, but once he caught up to him he didn't try and detain him at all, just kept talking *and recording it*.
posted by Horatius at 8:45 AM on August 17, 2012



I don't see what this guy and his friends did as 'vigilante' at least not in breadth of the typical definition which is taking the law into ones hands, illegally and giving out punishment.

Nothing they did was really illegal and they planned from the very beginning to have the punishment given out by the legal authorities. If they hadn't involved the police and beat the guy that would be vigilante.

They tracked down the guy and called the police. This type of thing isn't uncommon, especially with things and events that the police don't typically put a lot of resources into. Bike theft is one of those. Unless you have insurance there is no calling anyone to get it replaced. It's just gone. When I was growing up we had a string of house thefts in the neighborhood over the summer. The police couldn't do a whole lot except take reports. The thieves ended up being caught after many in the neighborhood put things together and figured out it was a particular group of teens doing it. Vigilante? No way.

My parents house was broken into a few years ago and all of my grandparents antiques were stolen. The police did what they could but said that realistically the people would not be caught. Yeah insurance covered it but many of the pieces were irreplaceable parts of family history. For a good time afterward I would pop into antique stores on my travels and you can be durn sure that if I had ever spotted any of the stolen items I would have queried about where they got it from and got the police involved. This was before Craigslist and sites like it. I would have combed those sites looking for the stuff and if I saw any of them done something similar to this guy, minus the video on the internet.

I just don't see this as acting as a vigilante. If anything it's similar to what a private investigator would do. Track it down, get the evidence and get the police involved.
posted by Jalliah at 9:06 AM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]


Did Craig Eric Ackerman steal the bike to ride it in the Tour de Cure?.
posted by crazy_yeti at 9:36 AM on August 17, 2012


Can't believe the general haters here. Well, I can actually since the "superior-to-you" is always strong. It reminds me of the various people that shit on union members as "self-entitled" hipster douches. "Oh, look at these people taking care of business by themselves. Sure they have been successful in their efforts, but everyone knows that the proper thing to do is shut up and wait for society to just solve my problems for me. Yup, that chariot will be here any time now".

Describing some people getting a thief arrested by the police as "vigilante" is particularly goofy.
posted by Winnemac at 10:12 AM on August 17, 2012 [4 favorites]


I think people are missing the bigger picture on this. Any thief I've ever run into did not just make a one time go of it, especially if the money was good. You figure this guy lifts 2 or 3 quality bikes a month and resells them in another city or state, he is clearing a couple grand a month for the cost of gas money. You guys really think the other bike strapped to the back of his car was his? Sure, his girlfriend and him drove up to Seattle to sell one bike so she can sit on the handlebars while he peddles them around the Burke-Gillman Trail on the other. That was a nice little racket he had going... until he got caught.

Perhaps a little less "this guy is a douchebag" and a little more "THIS GUY GOT WHAT HE DESERVED" is in order here.
posted by Rocket Surgeon at 10:30 AM on August 17, 2012 [4 favorites]


The lesson I take from this thread is that for some people, the hierarchy of wrongfulness goes:

i) pedophiles
ii) rapists
iii) "the entitled"

and everything else comes a distant fourth.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 10:35 AM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]


Sometimes I just don't understand people.

And no, I don't mean the guy in the video. I'm glad the bad guy got cuffed and the other guy got his shit back. Life's to short to waste agonizing about why he cares so much about his shit.... It's his shit, it got stolen, he got it back, cue curtains.
posted by RolandOfEld at 11:15 AM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]


*GRRGGG: life's TOO short to worry about typos also, but to each his own I suppose.
posted by RolandOfEld at 11:16 AM on August 17, 2012


It doesn't matter if the object is sacred or not, theft is theft and those cops did a damn lousy job, as is to be expected by big city police.

That's a bit unfair - they did a great job once they actually got there. The lousy part was that it took them a long time to get there.
posted by anonymisc at 12:41 PM on August 17, 2012


Way to go, Simon! I am all for tracking down these bike thieves. Scum of the earth, preying on people who need their bikes for transportation.

My son had his bike (properly locked and in a university bike rack in front of the new dorm with cameras everywhere) stolen from him. We didn't get his bike back. But I will tell you what I learned from the theft.

First, campus police are no help. He had his receipt and his bike's serial number, and the campus police tell everyone to register their bikes to help track them down, but I haven't heard of ANYONE getting a stolen bike back. The only theft I've heard of almost being prosecuted was--this is completely true--the former dean at the university, who was caught stealing a bike. He wasn't prosecuted, and he even got paid $50K to resign.

I could not handle having to deal with the campus police for a purely personal reason that had me sweating even the possibility of meeting up with one of them anyway, so I didn't expect much from them, anyway.

The second lesson I learned is that Craig's List is full of bike thieves, and it's really obvious, and yet it is allowed to go on. You can post about your stolen bike and offer rewards, you can even have really distinctive, expensive, custom-made bikes (my son's was not, it was just a bike he loved and used every day) so that it is obvious someone is trying to sell YOUR bike, but you are fighting a losing battle. I don't know how many posts I flagged, or how many people I emailed to let them know about a posting of a bike that looked like one they'd reported stolen, but it was a LOT.

ProTip: If you ever go on Craig's List, look for items for sale, and pick out bikes, you'll see a lot of listings with significant misspellings in the title. Typos happen, but if you see, for instance, a Diamondback bike listed as a "dimonbcak," do NOT buy that bike! It's almost certainly stolen. The misspellings are a not very sophisticated code the thieves use, which helps keep people who are looking for their stolen bike from finding it just by typing keywords in the search field.

After going through what we did, I am 100% behind people like Simon and his friends doing what they did to get this bike thief arrested. At least now he won't be preying on anyone else for a while.
posted by misha at 1:02 PM on August 17, 2012 [4 favorites]


You can't leave a $2500 bike outside, regardless of the lock.

... then someone perhaps should go tell the public not to leave their bikes/cars/anything over $2500 locked up properly in broad daylight here in Portland OR, a massively popular pro-biking town where providing copious outdoor bicycle parking has been a massive priority for years.
posted by bhance at 1:16 PM on August 17, 2012


I just don't see this as acting as a vigilante.

I'm glad of the restraint these guys showed when they confronted and followed the suspected thief - and glad the crime victim got his property back. Not everyone has his level of restraint, however, or his attention to detail in making damn sure it really was the thief who took his bike. I just worry that a scenario like this handled by lazier or angrier or just plain dumber victims of theft could easily play out into a darker, "Whoa, sorry about your broken arm man, I just realized I had put a totally different brand of tire on my bike a week before it got stolen so I guess it's not mine after all," kind of thing.
posted by aught at 2:10 PM on August 17, 2012 [1 favorite]


You can't leave a $2500 bike outside, regardless of the lock.

I dunno about all that. It really depends on the circumstances.

At the end of June, I participated in the Multiple Sclerosis Society's MS 150 Bike to the Bay. There were a couple thousand riders, ranging from duffers like me on my $200 Schwinn to hardcore cyclists riding $3500 Specialized rigs with all the trimmings. After the first day of the tour, our bikes were stored in a high school's baseball field. No racks, no place to lock up, just some volunteers patrolling periodically, and some peeps camping in the outfield.

No stolen bikes, even though there were plenty to choose from, and ample opportunity. *shrug*

After going through what we did, I am 100% behind people like Simon and his friends doing what they did to get this bike thief arrested.

Yeah, me too. Now, I don't have a super special, carbon fiber, all the bells and whistles hoopty-do going on. It's a Schwinn I bought at Target and rode home. I've tinkered with it so the seat and handlebars are just right, and it's gone on a couple hundred miles of road rallies and such since I bought it in June. But you can bet that if someone stole it, I'd chase his ass down and sit on him til the cops showed up. Might even bounce a bit to see if I could snap a few ribs while I was at it.

Stealing someone's bike is right there with roughing up little kids for their lunch money and mugging little old ladies - it's fucking low, and if you're that unskilled at thieving that you have to stoop that low, you deserve whatever ass kicking you get from someone who has decided not to just let you get away with it.
posted by MissySedai at 5:22 PM on August 17, 2012 [2 favorites]


The Portland guy looks like a Portland guy. The 'Seattle' guy looks like a Twin Falls guy.
posted by Twang at 6:49 PM on August 17, 2012


deathpanels:

One night out at a bar, a group of people sitting near me suddenly jumped out of their seats and ran into the road to chase down a bike burglar who had just clipped a lock on one of their bikes within view of the bar.

When I saw this, I thought, "The same thing happened to me one time!" But then I saw your username and realized I was there with you that night. It was impressive that people realized what was going on and got the bike back, wasn't it? Also, thanks for letting my friend and me crash your birthday party a while back.
posted by Sand Reckoner at 1:59 AM on August 18, 2012


« Older Charles de Thierry: man of many lands, king of...   |   What can I say? Sexy Batman. Dot Com. Newer »


This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments



Post