all the motels were overflowing with groupies
September 8, 2012 7:39 PM Subscribe
The Rolling Stones rock Warhol's East Hampton Pad, Montauk 1975 - Half way through the tour, Truman Capote met the group in Kansas City. In tow was his new best friend, Lee Radziwill. The mix of rock royalty and Fortunate Four Hundred did not work well. Jagger hated Capote’s mincing manners, and Capote called Mick – "…a scared little boy… about as sexy as a pissing toad." Stones guitarist Keith Richards welcomed the cultured Radziwill by banging on her hotel door that night, screaming "Princess Radish… C'mon you old tart, there’s a party going’ downstairs!"
Thanks for this! I've been reading and watching everything I can find about Truman Capote lately. Andy Warhol might be my next subject.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 8:06 PM on September 8, 2012
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 8:06 PM on September 8, 2012
I'm on a Rolling Stones kick, and this is great.
I liked Warhol until I put two and two together about his obsession with wealth and aristocracy.
Truman Capote is still pretty cool, though I will always love the flame-out William Burroughs sent him.
posted by Sara C. at 8:20 PM on September 8, 2012 [9 favorites]
I liked Warhol until I put two and two together about his obsession with wealth and aristocracy.
Truman Capote is still pretty cool, though I will always love the flame-out William Burroughs sent him.
posted by Sara C. at 8:20 PM on September 8, 2012 [9 favorites]
Speaking of the Stones, which memoir is better, Mick or Keith? I'll eventually read both, but just for starters?
posted by Sara C. at 8:21 PM on September 8, 2012
posted by Sara C. at 8:21 PM on September 8, 2012
Keith's is very funny and a good read, but I haven't read Mick's yet. I'll be surprised to read anything that makes me sympathetic to Mick at this point though.
posted by padraigin at 8:23 PM on September 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by padraigin at 8:23 PM on September 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
They need to start making those pointy-head hoodies again, and Charlie Watts needs to start wearing them all the time.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:25 PM on September 8, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Sys Rq at 8:25 PM on September 8, 2012 [4 favorites]
I will always love the flame-out William Burroughs sent him.
That was brill.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:34 PM on September 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
That was brill.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:34 PM on September 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
If there was ever any doubt that Charlie Watts was* the coolest looking Stone, said doubt has been laid to rest by the third photo into the essay.
*and he still is, actually...
posted by flapjax at midnite at 8:37 PM on September 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
*and he still is, actually...
posted by flapjax at midnite at 8:37 PM on September 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
And how 'bout that afro Ollie Brown was sporting, eh? Perfection.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 8:38 PM on September 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by flapjax at midnite at 8:38 PM on September 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
How I miss the 70's.
posted by incandissonance at 9:15 PM on September 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by incandissonance at 9:15 PM on September 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
That's a pretty awesome site, The Selvedge Yard. Thanks for the post and the many hours of browsing you've given me. 70's here I come!
posted by ashbury at 9:23 PM on September 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by ashbury at 9:23 PM on September 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
That Burroughs letter is amazing, though I imagine Capote was way too self-contained to be as chilled by its flat-voiced brutality as anyone else would be.
posted by ThatFuzzyBastard at 10:33 PM on September 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ThatFuzzyBastard at 10:33 PM on September 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
Seconding Charlie Watts as the coolest Stone. Great article, thanks.
posted by arcticseal at 10:40 PM on September 8, 2012
posted by arcticseal at 10:40 PM on September 8, 2012
Jagger hated Capote’s mincing manners
That could stand a little elaboration. Jagger is hardly anti-mincing, after all.
SweetTeaAndABiscuit, get yourself a cheap copy of The Warhol Diaries on Amazon. It's an amazing book. Popism is really good too. Reading The Warhol Diaries is like reading the best blog ever. It's sad Warhol missed out on the web. He would've loved it so hard.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 11:00 PM on September 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
That could stand a little elaboration. Jagger is hardly anti-mincing, after all.
SweetTeaAndABiscuit, get yourself a cheap copy of The Warhol Diaries on Amazon. It's an amazing book. Popism is really good too. Reading The Warhol Diaries is like reading the best blog ever. It's sad Warhol missed out on the web. He would've loved it so hard.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 11:00 PM on September 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
That could stand a little elaboration. Jagger is hardly anti-mincing, after all.
No contradiction there. Often what we hate in others are characteristics that we ourselves exhibit. Perhaps it's a sly form of self hate.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 11:17 PM on September 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
No contradiction there. Often what we hate in others are characteristics that we ourselves exhibit. Perhaps it's a sly form of self hate.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 11:17 PM on September 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
From my memory, my favorite Stones books are in order Booth, Elman, and Flippo.
posted by stevil at 11:23 PM on September 8, 2012
posted by stevil at 11:23 PM on September 8, 2012
I read the Warhol Diaries ages ago, but this bit still surprised me:
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 12:04 AM on September 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
“[Andy Warhol] was almost allergic to fresh air, but once in a while felt obliged to leave the city and check in on the happenings at his place in Montauk. Here a somewhat different person was on display. He loved children and was inventive with them, creating activities in which they became totally abandoned such as when he sat them down at a large round table in the living room to show them how to edit a film in a simple way. He was something of a pied piper, always keeping their attention, always admiring and encouraging them at whatever they did.”I know Warhol wasn't the cold, unfeeling businessman he's often portrayed as being, but "great with children" is not something I would have suspected. But now that I think about it, it makes a lot of sense. Warhol was very child-like in many ways. He probably found children a refreshing change to the 2cool4u scenesters who often flocked around him.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 12:04 AM on September 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah, fuck I miss the seventies.
posted by mattoxic at 1:51 AM on September 9, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by mattoxic at 1:51 AM on September 9, 2012 [3 favorites]
It's sad Warhol missed out on the web. He would've loved it so hard.
i think that andy was referring to facebook when he talked about everyone being famous for 15 minutes.
posted by lester at 1:57 AM on September 9, 2012
i think that andy was referring to facebook when he talked about everyone being famous for 15 minutes.
posted by lester at 1:57 AM on September 9, 2012
Charlie Watts is like a little rip in space-time in those photos. I don't think I could mistake him being from the 80s, but pretty much 1970-80, or 93-2012. Crazy.
posted by cromagnon at 3:14 AM on September 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by cromagnon at 3:14 AM on September 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
i think that andy was referring to facebook when he talked about everyone being famous for 15 minutes.
On FaceBook, everyone thinks they are famous 24/7.
I could see Warhol obsessing over his fb friends or the number of people following his tweats. He'd probably be bummed by automated followers, since they would interfere with his metrics.
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:25 AM on September 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
On FaceBook, everyone thinks they are famous 24/7.
I could see Warhol obsessing over his fb friends or the number of people following his tweats. He'd probably be bummed by automated followers, since they would interfere with his metrics.
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:25 AM on September 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
I never would have pegged Charlie Watts as a Joseph Gordon-Levitt doppelganger, but that photo...
posted by pxe2000 at 4:24 AM on September 9, 2012
posted by pxe2000 at 4:24 AM on September 9, 2012
Yeah, fuck I miss the seventies.
The 70s was the last decade where it looked like the US was on any kind of track to become a pluralistic, egalitarian society that progressive people would've wanted. Then Reagan and Thatcher came along and shut it all down, and no decade has since come close. OWS, in very recent times, seems a hint of a new wind blowing in the right direction, but... well, we'll see about that.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:08 AM on September 9, 2012 [5 favorites]
The 70s was the last decade where it looked like the US was on any kind of track to become a pluralistic, egalitarian society that progressive people would've wanted. Then Reagan and Thatcher came along and shut it all down, and no decade has since come close. OWS, in very recent times, seems a hint of a new wind blowing in the right direction, but... well, we'll see about that.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:08 AM on September 9, 2012 [5 favorites]
The Selvedge Yard is awesome in a bottle
posted by C.A.S. at 5:20 AM on September 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by C.A.S. at 5:20 AM on September 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
The Selvedge Yard is indeed awesome. Go back a few years to 1969 and Gram Parsons, Keith Richards and Anita Pallenberg all trippin' out at Joshua Tree and photographed by Mikey Cooper.
The 70's
.
posted by adamvasco at 5:59 AM on September 9, 2012
The 70's
.
posted by adamvasco at 5:59 AM on September 9, 2012
The 70s was the last decade where it looked like the US was on any kind of track to become a pluralistic, egalitarian society that progressive people would've wanted.
the change was just as much economic as it was political and it started in 1973 - gas shot up, factories started closing and many areas of the country, including my hometown, started falling apart
i think in some ways, we've remained on track, if spinning our wheels quite a bit - the 80s and 90s were a lot more hopeful than the late 70s, no thanks to reagan
since then, i've become increasingly concerned
but i guess that really doesn't have much to do with the rolling stones ...
posted by pyramid termite at 6:43 AM on September 9, 2012
the change was just as much economic as it was political and it started in 1973 - gas shot up, factories started closing and many areas of the country, including my hometown, started falling apart
i think in some ways, we've remained on track, if spinning our wheels quite a bit - the 80s and 90s were a lot more hopeful than the late 70s, no thanks to reagan
since then, i've become increasingly concerned
but i guess that really doesn't have much to do with the rolling stones ...
posted by pyramid termite at 6:43 AM on September 9, 2012
Shocking. I'd assumed that Keef did all his cooking in a spoon.
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:01 AM on September 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:01 AM on September 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
but i guess that really doesn't have much to do with the rolling stones ...
Yeah, OK, I hear you, pt, derail and all that. So, to get back on the Stones track, my favorite Charlie Watts story, copied here from the Charlie Watts Wiki page:
A famous anecdote relates that during the mid-1980s, an intoxicated Jagger phoned Watts' hotel room in the middle of the night asking "Where's my drummer?". Watts reportedly got up, shaved, dressed in a suit, put on a tie and freshly shined shoes, descended the stairs, and punched Jagger in the face, saying: "Don't ever call me your drummer again. You're my fucking singer!"
posted by flapjax at midnite at 7:02 AM on September 9, 2012 [18 favorites]
Yeah, OK, I hear you, pt, derail and all that. So, to get back on the Stones track, my favorite Charlie Watts story, copied here from the Charlie Watts Wiki page:
A famous anecdote relates that during the mid-1980s, an intoxicated Jagger phoned Watts' hotel room in the middle of the night asking "Where's my drummer?". Watts reportedly got up, shaved, dressed in a suit, put on a tie and freshly shined shoes, descended the stairs, and punched Jagger in the face, saying: "Don't ever call me your drummer again. You're my fucking singer!"
posted by flapjax at midnite at 7:02 AM on September 9, 2012 [18 favorites]
I was working at a bar over the summer that had a playlist consisting of nothing but Zeppelin, the Doors, and the Stones. Hearing these three over and over again, I came to identify who I thought were the stand-out musicians of each. For Zeppelin, it was the guitarist; for the Doors, the keyboards; and for the Stones, the drummer. Watts is by far the mots competent musician in the band, especially compared to Jagger's abysmal lyrics ("She blew my nose and then she blew my mind", Mick? Seriously? And don't even get me started on how wrong wrong wrong Brown Sugar is), and might explain why, whenever I see Watts banging away like a champ, he looks dead bored. He's a jazz drummer originally, right? Bass, snare, bass bass, snare, bass, snare, press roll, crash probably becomes a muscle reflex after a few minutes.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 7:31 AM on September 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 7:31 AM on September 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I'm going to spend a lot of time on that site, I think. I wish they'd hire a copy editor who could catch 'they're' and 'it's' errors, though, they're pretty glaring.
Ah, classic... nice jumpsuit, Lee.
posted by Huck500 at 8:06 AM on September 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ah, classic... nice jumpsuit, Lee.
posted by Huck500 at 8:06 AM on September 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
Charlie's timing is fluid, though. Watch that video of the Stones rehearsing Tumblin' Dice in 72 ()
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmfHV8Nw8Mw
Charlie is not exactly a metronome, but the coda/playout at the end is just a stone cold groove. Loose, dirty, awesome.
As for Led Zep, I'd argue that guitar is the obvious flashpoint, but the sound is defined by Bonham's drums, thus they have been sampled in nearly as much hip hop as James Brown. Also, John Paul Jones is a complete musician as well.
posted by C.A.S. at 10:09 AM on September 9, 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmfHV8Nw8Mw
Charlie is not exactly a metronome, but the coda/playout at the end is just a stone cold groove. Loose, dirty, awesome.
As for Led Zep, I'd argue that guitar is the obvious flashpoint, but the sound is defined by Bonham's drums, thus they have been sampled in nearly as much hip hop as James Brown. Also, John Paul Jones is a complete musician as well.
posted by C.A.S. at 10:09 AM on September 9, 2012
Truman Capote is still pretty cool, though I will always love the flame-out William Burroughs sent him.
Previously.
posted by homunculus at 12:27 PM on September 9, 2012
Previously.
posted by homunculus at 12:27 PM on September 9, 2012
the sound is defined by Bonham's drums, thus they have been sampled in nearly as much hip hop as James Brown
True of approximately three seconds of "When the Levee Breaks" and not a whole lot else.
posted by Sys Rq at 12:34 PM on September 9, 2012
True of approximately three seconds of "When the Levee Breaks" and not a whole lot else.
posted by Sys Rq at 12:34 PM on September 9, 2012
For Zeppelin, it was the guitarist
If by "guitarist" you mean "John Bonham", then you're absolutely correct.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:16 PM on September 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
If by "guitarist" you mean "John Bonham", then you're absolutely correct.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:16 PM on September 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
Come on folks, Watts is great, but by any rational measure he is at best the third-coolest dude in the Stones. Jagger was a demigod in his prime, and as for Keith... Well, check out this clip. Not only did Keith finish the song with nary an interruption, but before the song was even finished, he and Jagger were grinning. Punk as fuck.
Joseph Gordon-Levitt looks like Charlie Watts, the same way he somehow looks like Bruce Willis and Heath Ledger. Joseph Gordon-Levitt looks like everybody.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 5:36 PM on September 9, 2012
Joseph Gordon-Levitt looks like Charlie Watts, the same way he somehow looks like Bruce Willis and Heath Ledger. Joseph Gordon-Levitt looks like everybody.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 5:36 PM on September 9, 2012
Come on folks, Watts is great, but by any rational measure he is at best the third-coolest dude in the Stones.
Disagreed. And my rational measure is this: Charlie never tried to be cool. He never strived for coolness. And unlike Mick, for example, he didn't wear outfits that made him look like an idiot.
check out this clip . Not only did Keith finish the song with nary an interruption, but before the song was even finished, he and Jagger were grinning.
Maybe cause that shit was staged... ;-)
posted by flapjax at midnite at 8:48 PM on September 9, 2012
Disagreed. And my rational measure is this: Charlie never tried to be cool. He never strived for coolness. And unlike Mick, for example, he didn't wear outfits that made him look like an idiot.
check out this clip . Not only did Keith finish the song with nary an interruption, but before the song was even finished, he and Jagger were grinning.
Maybe cause that shit was staged... ;-)
posted by flapjax at midnite at 8:48 PM on September 9, 2012
Mick didn't try to be cool, he did what he did and made it cool. I've heard coolness defined as having the ability to do things that would be embarrassing if other people did them, and make them seem glamorous. When young Mick was strutting around with no shirt, an Uncle Sam hat and Mork from Ork-style rainbow suspenders, he looked awesome doing something that would've made anybody else expire from sheer lameness.
Staged? Possibly, but I don't think you need to stage that kind of crap when Richards is around. The man was born a crazy old pirate, and the drugs did the rest.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 9:02 PM on September 9, 2012
Staged? Possibly, but I don't think you need to stage that kind of crap when Richards is around. The man was born a crazy old pirate, and the drugs did the rest.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 9:02 PM on September 9, 2012
If by "guitarist" you mean "John Bonham", then you're absolutely correct.
Oh dear, you're serious, aren't you?
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 10:06 PM on September 9, 2012
Oh dear, you're serious, aren't you?
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 10:06 PM on September 9, 2012
Oh dear, you're serious, aren't you?
As a heart attack. Bonzo resides waaaaay up there at the apex of rock drumming. The man was the very definition of solidity. He was a fucking anchor, like rock has hardly seen since.
I'm by no means alone in this opinion, either.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 12:18 AM on September 10, 2012
As a heart attack. Bonzo resides waaaaay up there at the apex of rock drumming. The man was the very definition of solidity. He was a fucking anchor, like rock has hardly seen since.
I'm by no means alone in this opinion, either.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 12:18 AM on September 10, 2012
Yeah, he was a fantastic drummer, no doubt about it. In terms of sheer talent in that band, though, I think Page outshines them all. But maybe my opinion is colored through memories of hearing him play for the first time.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 12:39 AM on September 10, 2012
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 12:39 AM on September 10, 2012
The amount of talent in those late 60s/early 70s Brit rhythm sections was staggering. Watts and Wyman were as tight as Nixon's sphincter, but there was also superlative work done by Squire/White, Butler/Ward, Glover/Paice, Bruce/Baker, Rutherford/Collins, Quaife/Avory. And then the gods of thunder: Entwistle/Moon and Jones/Bonham. Ian Stewart, who played with Watts from the beginning, said Bonham was the best rock n' roll drummer there was. Whatever was in the water when that generation was conceived it sure had rhythm.
posted by Ber at 8:37 AM on September 10, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Ber at 8:37 AM on September 10, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah, fuck I miss the seventies.
Yeah, I miss being a teenager too ;)
Whatever was in the water when that generation was conceived it sure had rhythm.
Leftovers from Nazi bombs, given that most of them were born between 1940 and 1945-ish.
posted by billsaysthis at 10:28 AM on September 10, 2012
Yeah, I miss being a teenager too ;)
Whatever was in the water when that generation was conceived it sure had rhythm.
Leftovers from Nazi bombs, given that most of them were born between 1940 and 1945-ish.
posted by billsaysthis at 10:28 AM on September 10, 2012
Ian Stewart, who played with Watts from the beginning, said Bonham was the best rock n' roll drummer there was.
He obviously never played with this guy.
posted by homunculus at 8:03 PM on September 12, 2012
He obviously never played with this guy.
posted by homunculus at 8:03 PM on September 12, 2012
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