The U.S. Embassy in Cairo issued a statement saying, in part, that it condemns "the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims — as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions." The statement, an apparent reference to the video, was posted hours before the American's death in Libya was reported.Clinton was right, they don't know basic arithmetic or how to tell time.
In a statement Tuesday night, Romney said he was outraged by the attacks and the death of the American consulate worker. He added, "It's disgraceful that the Obama administration's first response was not to condemn attacks on our diplomatic missions, but to sympathize with those who waged the attacks."
The embassy statement was not a response to the attacks because it was issued several hours before the attacks even occurred. The Washington Post helpfully passes along the actual first response to the attacks from the Obama administration:posted by zombieflanders at 4:41 AM on September 12, 2012 [8 favorites]“I condemn in the strongest terms the attack on our mission in Benghazi today,” Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said in a statement. “As we work to secure our personnel and facilities, we have confirmed that one of our State Department officers was killed. We are heartbroken by this terrible loss. Our thoughts and prayers are with his family and those who have suffered in this attack.”
....She added that although the United States “deplores” any intentional effort to denigrate the religious beliefs of others, “there is never any justification for violent acts of this kind.”
Obama sympathizes with attackers in Egypt. Sad and pathetic.These guys aren't even bothering to make it a secret that they're itching to start as many wars with brown folk as they can as soon as possible if they get elected.
"So let me get this straight: extremists storm a U.S. embassy and kill the ambassador. And the response of the State Department is to... apologize?"I'm assuming because your usual violent, crotch-grabbing, indiscriminate response doesn't seem to work any more.
This morning's condemnation (issued before protest) still stands. As does our condemnation of unjustified breach of the Embassy.Which, really? Are you kidding me? "unjustified breach"? Murder. Unjustified murder of your own people, and it deserves your full 140 character response, not to share time with your repetition of the condemnation of free speech of American citizens.
Nearly a dozen Americans were inside the consulate at the time, guarded only by Libyan security.
Obama campaign spokesman Ben LaBolt said in an email early Wednesday, "We are shocked that, at a time when the United States of America is confronting the tragic death of one of our diplomatic officers in Libya, Gov. Romney would choose to launch a political attack."So, attacking Romney for attacking, but still an attack.
I'd rather die with my hand extended in friendship than stay alive locked in a fortress.Amen, seanmpuckett.
The State Department spokesman, Sean McCormack, reading the government's statement on the controversy, said, ''Anti-Muslim images are as unacceptable as anti-Semitic images,'' which are routinely published in the Arab press, ''as anti-Christian images, or any other religious belief.''While the Bush Administration condemned the cartoons, it also spoke up for freedom of speech, and specifically condemned the anti-Semitic and anti-Christian images that routinely appear in Arab media. I'm glad to be proven wrong, but I haven't seen the Obama White House, State Department or campaign clearly articulate their commitment to freedom of expression in this instance.
Still, the United States defended the right of the Danish and French newspapers to publish the cartoons. ''We vigorously defend the right of individuals to express points of view,'' Mr. McCormack added.
We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others.posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:06 AM on September 12, 2012 [9 favorites]
But security has been scaled back in recent months, with several roadblocks leading to the facility removed after legal court cases by residents.posted by corb at 6:10 AM on September 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
Last week, an Egyptian-American Copt known for his broadsides against Muslims drew attention to the trailer in an Arabic-language blog post and an e-mail newsletter in English publicizing the latest publicity stunt of the Florida pastor Terry Jones, reviled in the Muslim world for burning copies of the Koran. Reached by telephone in Florida, a representative of Mr. Jones seemed unaware of the film, but hours later the pastor sent The Lede a statement by e-mail in which he complained of the attack on the embassy in Cairo and announced plans to screen the trailer for the film on Tuesday night. He said that it “reveals in a satirical fashion the life of Muhammad.”posted by to sir with millipedes at 6:20 AM on September 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States;Not even Scalia reads the Department of State into the Military.posted by eriko at 6:35 AM on September 12, 2012 [50 favorites]
Just watched an excellent and moving stmt by Sec. Clinton- just the right message and tone.Why is he sympathizing with American enemies?
I bet Romney knows exactly what he's doing.Nope. He doesn't. He really, really doesn't.
Josh Lyman: "You want to get these people? I mean, you really want to reach in and kill them where they live? Keep accepting more than one idea. It makes them absolutely crazy."posted by Fizz at 7:54 AM on September 12, 2012 [7 favorites]
The statement from the Romney campaign was initially released by Romney press secretary Andrea Saul at 10:09 PM — but under an embargo until midnight on September 12th. In other words, it was embargoed until September 11th was over.posted by zombieflanders at 8:37 AM on September 12, 2012 [5 favorites]
Then a few minutes later at 10:24 PM the embargo was lifted and reporters were told they could use the statement immediately. There was no clear explanation of the change.
Bear in mind, this was all happening while attacks on US personnel abroad were ongoing. According to a statement released this morning by the White House, the President was told last night that Ambassador Chris Steven was unaccounted for. Only this morning did he learn that Stevens had died in the attacks that were on-going last night.
The campaign also authorized Romney’s top foreign policy advisor to give a blistering interview attacking the president while the attacks were continuing.
Why should the US State Department have to expend tax money defending some little shit's deliberately provocative film when that film has directly cost them their own people's lives? This is not a free speech issue.Dude... seriously? Freedom isn't free. Just stop by your local VFW and see for yourself.
The trailer was uploaded to YouTube by someone identified as Sam Bacile, whom The Wall Street Journal Web site described as a 52-year old Israeli-American real estate developer in California. He was quoted as telling the Web site he had raised $5 million from 100 Jewish donors to make the film. “Islam is a cancer,” Mr. Bacile was quoted as saying.Strange to think that this schmo could have a role in influencing American foreign policy going forward, the presidential election, security policy at embassies etc, not to mention the death of a number of people, all because of some shitty video. It's unfairly easy to make a backwards, polemical video and upload it to the internet, and so far it seems we haven't been able to stop others from reacting in outsize ways to thinks like Terry Jones burning the Koran (not that taking offense to that is unjustified, but doing so in a violent way is). I don't really know what the solution is here.
The Israeli government moved quickly to distance Israel from the creator of the film. Yigal Palmor, the spokesman for the Israeli Foreign Ministry, said in a telephoned statement that “Nobody knows who he is. He is totally unknown in filmmaking circles in Israel. And anything he did — he is not doing it for Israel, or with Israel, or through Israel in any way.” Mr. Palmor also called Mr. Bacile “a complete loose cannon and an unspeakable idiot.”
BobbyVan: Terry Jones DID NOT MAKE THIS FILM!Neither did Terry Jones.
"They were just trying to score a cheap news cycle hit based on the embassy statement and now it’s just completely blown up," said a very senior Republican foreign policy hand, who called the statement an "utter disaster" and a "Lehman moment" — a parallel to the moment when John McCain, amid the 2008 financial crisis, failed to come across as a steady leader.Ouch!
He and other members of both parties cited the Romney campaign's recent dismissals of foreign policy's relevance. One adviser dismissed the subject to BuzzFeed as a "shiny object," while another told Politico that the subject was the "president's turf," drawing a rebuke from Weekly Standard editor Bill Kristol.
"I guess we see now that it is because they’re incompetent at talking effectively about foreign policy," said the Republican. "This is just unbelievable — when they decide to play on it they completely bungle it."
We at Quilliam believe the attack on the US consulate in Benghazi was a well planned terrorist attack that would have occurred regardless of the demonstration, to serve another purpose. According to information obtained by Quilliam – from foreign sources and from within Benghazi – we have reason to believe that the attack on the US consulate in Benghazi came to avenge the death of Abu Yaya al-Libi, al-Qaeda’s second in command killed a few months ago.posted by gladly at 9:52 AM on September 12, 2012 [10 favorites]
The reasons for this are as follows:
24 hours before this attack, none other than the leader of al-Qaeda, Ayman al-Zawahiri, released a video on Jihadist forums to mark the anniversary of 9/11. In this video, Zawahiri acknowledged the death of his second in command Abu Yahya and urged Libyans to avenge his killing.
According to our sources, the attack was the work of roughly 20 militants, prepared for a military assault – it is rare that an RPG7 is present at a peaceful protest.
According to our sources, the attack against the Consulate had two waves. The first attack led to US officials being evacuated from the consulate by Libyan security forces, only for the second wave to be launched against US officials after they were kept in a secure location.
''We find them offensive, and we certainly understand why Muslims would find these images offensive.''Oh, no, wait. That was the Bush administration referring to the Danish Muhammed cartoons. Now that I look at that statement again, it's a model of reasoned diplomacy in a tense situation. Why couldn't the Obama administration do something like this?
We all fully recognize and respect freedom of the press and expression but it must be coupled with press responsibility. Inciting religious or ethnic hatreds in this manner is not acceptableThis is just outrageous! I mean, how dare they suggest that freedom of speech still leaves any room for judgment as to whether speech is reasonable, responsible or "acceptable"? This is just craven and disgusting!
"I also believe the administration was wrong to stand by a statement sympathizing" with the attackers "instead of condemning" the attackers. Two sentences later, Romney says the administration "distanced itself" from the statement that he just said it had stood by. Romney can't even keep his story straight from sentence to sentence. But he's standing by his attack.All air and no substance. Can't/won't give specifics. Empty-headed, opportunistic flip-flopping robot, indeed.
... Did Romney jump the gun? "I don't think we ever hesitate when we see something which is a violation of our principals."
... Then he says he won't respond to hypotheticals about what he would have said had he actually known what has happening in Egypt.
... I'd like to see a reporter ask Romney to quote from a statement issued by the administration and say specifically what he disagreed with. Because so far as I can tell, everything he is saying he's making up out of thin air.
Do you agree or disagree with the sentiments expressed in the movie?I think the answer to that question is a moot point. They had a right to make whatever movie they want. That's part of the freedom of religion/speech/et al. we ALL have as Americans.
Who is infringing that right in any way whatsoever?Seriously? I wish there was another context I could take that in so as to possibly imagine that I might be on the wrong side of this argument.
Yeah, and that includes the right to say "I think your opinion is bullshit." Which is all that happened./facepalm
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.posted by Blue_Villain at 10:56 AM on September 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
-Voltaire
Romney referred in his statement to the "embassies" and particularly to "our embassy at Benghazi, Libya." He made the mistake three times, so it wasn't just a slip of the lip.posted by zombieflanders at 11:00 AM on September 12, 2012 [24 favorites]
Any first year international relations student knows that our diplomatic offices in the capital are "embassies," and our offices in cities that are not the capital are "consulates."
This means that Romney either had no idea what the capital of Libya was when he said it was Benghazi (it's Tripoli, obviously), or he had no idea what the difference was between "embassies" and "consulates," which is so basic Diplomacy 101 that it's frightening that Mitt Romney wants to be commander in chief in four months and had no idea about the difference.
I did my graduate studies international public policy at Georgetown. This is no small matter. Or rather, it's such a small matter, such an obvious point, that it's frightening Romney had no idea that he was making the error.
It's a rookie mistake to confuse embassies and consulates, and it's the kind of thing that anyone with any training in diplomacy and international relations would immediately look out for, and notice. Romney should have seen this speech and immediately said "Libya's capital isn't Tripoli, and our embassy isn't in Benghazi." But he didn't. Because Mitt Romney simply has no background in foreign policy. But that didn't stop him from weighing in immediately on a major national security crisis, with the presidential backdrop and all.
Let's hope a future "President Romney," God forbid, does a fact-check before he starts bombing the wrong city.
The State Department spokesman, Sean McCormack, reading the government's statement on the controversy, said, ''Anti-Muslim images are as unacceptable as anti-Semitic images,'' which are routinely published in the Arab press, ''as anti-Christian images, or any other religious belief.''See what happened here? The Bush Administration condemned the cartoons, but did so in such a way as to not be solicitous of the mob. It specifically mentioned Christians and Jews in addition to Muslims, and said that while these particular images were "unacceptable," the US government will also "vigorously" defend free speech rights.
Still, the United States defended the right of the Danish and French newspapers to publish the cartoons. ''We vigorously defend the right of individuals to express points of view,'' Mr. McCormack added.
“Unless the Romney campaign has gamed this crisis out in some manner completely invisible to the Gang of 500, his doubling down on criticism of the President for the statement coming out of Cairo is likely to be seen as one of the most craven and ill-advised tactical moves in this entire campaign”.Peggy Noonan on Fox News:
“Trying to exploit things for political gain . . . Mitt Romney hasn’t been doing himself any favors the past few hours”.*posted by ericb at 11:04 AM on September 12, 2012 [3 favorites]
Why should the US State Department have to expend tax money defending some little shit's deliberately provocative film when that film has directly cost them their own people's lives? This is not a free speech issue.posted by Blue_Villain at 11:06 AM on September 12, 2012
posted by saulgoodman at 9:05 AM on September 12
Ohhhhhh.Heh... no worries. I was terribly curious as to why people were all of a sudden on my case for what I thought was stating the obvious here.
I think Saul was responding to BobbyVan's calling for Obama to expressly state that we support free speech. I don't think he was implying "we shouldn't send troops to support free speech".Looks like we've all misinterpreted at least one or two posts on here then.
"Is this the expression of a head of state publicly honoring the deaths of American citizens?"posted by ericb at 11:13 AM on September 12, 2012 [6 favorites]
Ali Aujali, Libya’s Ambassador to the U.S., spoke movingly of his late counterpart, Christopher Stevens, and said it was “sad” to see some in the U.S. politicizing the tragedy. Speaking with Salon after a press conference in Washington organized by the Islamic Society of North America, Aujali also said he thought the U.S. Embassy in Cairo did the “right thing” by issuing a statement condemning an anti-Islamic video, a statement that has since been disavowed by the Obama administration and sparked bitter condemnation from Mitt Romney.posted by zombieflanders at 11:15 AM on September 12, 2012 [12 favorites]
Asked about the U.S. political fracas that has erupted since Romney attacked Obama’s handling of the protests in Cairo and Benghazi, Libya last night, Aujali said he hoped it would be a time for unity. “I’d like to see very much the American people come together and help the Libyan people together, either Republican or Democratic,” said Aujali, who called Stevens a dear friend and his tennis partner.
"This cannot be emphasized enough: there are individuals and movements, both in the United States and the Middle East, who want nothing more to collapse multiple sites of difference, conflict, and cooperation into a single pivot point: the 'American-led West' against 'Islam.' What we're seeing now in the fallout of the attacks is what has been going on for a long time: numerous officials, regimes, movements, and individuals struggling to forward or avoid this kind of polarization."posted by Wretch729 at 11:24 AM on September 12, 2012 [10 favorites]
stroke_count: "*Waves hand* I'm another spineless, bleeding-heart, radical liberal with no respect for freedom of speech."WOOOOOOOOSSSSSHHHHHHH---------------------------------------------------------------------
saulgoodman: "I have the utmost respect for the power of speech and the value of its freedom. Unlike you, I actually believe that right means something and gives real power with potential consequences to its holders: All rights and powers come with corresponding responsibilities and obligations to exercise them in the best interest of ones society."
The president is never immune from criticism, even in moments of tragedy. But even in a polarized age, Romney's comments are shocking. They don't merely assign responsibility for the incident to, say, poor leadership or a failed foreign policy. Instead, Romney's remarks suggest that Obama has very specific personal motivations: When violent religious radicals slaughter Americans, Obama is on the side of the radicals. As it happens, Romney's statement isn't coming out of nowhere: It comes out of a very well-developed narrative, popular on the fever swamps of the right where questions about Obama's citizenship or faith linger. The idea that Obama is driven chiefly by hatred of America and the West and harbors a desire to make America pay for its transgressions is the thesis of Dinesh D'Souza's recently released film, 2016: Obama's America. The film is a "documentary" version of various articles D'Souza has written over the past few years alleging that Obama can only be understood through the lens of "Kenyan anti-colonialism," an ideology bestowed on Obama by the father he hardly knew.posted by zombieflanders at 11:58 AM on September 12, 2012 [7 favorites]
D'Souza's film, which has been successful at the box office, is meant to provide a scholarly sounding argument that reaches the same conclusions about Obama's nature implied by the right-wing conspiracy theories that have dogged the president since 2008: That he is a secret Muslim who wasn't born in the United States and is therefore hostile to America and its ideals. (Though there's nothing wrong with being a Muslim, many Republicans believe otherwise.) D'Souza's theory provides the cultural and political context for Romney's belief that Obama sympathizes with those who attacked the US consulate in Benghazi. If the Obama envisioned by D'Souza is real, then of course he sympathizes with those who assaulted a US consulate over an internet video offensive to Muslims, because that Obama believes America needs to be taken down a peg or two.
D'Souza and Romney's Obama is about as real as the one sitting in the empty chair Clint Eastwood yelled at for 12 minutes at the Republican National Convention. Nevertheless, when the Romney campaign chose to express the conflict in these terms, with the president on the side of those who murdered Americans in Benghazi, his supporters knew he was invoking their imaginary, Kenyan anti-colonialist Obama. It's naive to think that the Romney campaign didn't know it, too.
ThinkProgress spoke with [Tom] Ridge, who served under President George W. Bush from 2003 to 2005 and endorsed Romney earlier this year, on Capitol Hill today to get his reaction. He was unwilling to criticize Romney directly — “I don’t want to get in the he said, she said” — but rebuffed his charge that Obama’s sentiments were with those who carried out the attacks. “I don’t think President Obama sympathizes with those who attacked us,” Ridge said. “I don’t think any American does.”posted by zombieflanders at 12:15 PM on September 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
Don’t you think it was appropriate for the embassy to condemn the controversial movie in question? Are you standing up for movies like this?posted by Joey Michaels at 12:48 PM on September 12, 2012
– Governor Romney rejects the reported message of the movie. There is no room for religious hatred or intolerance.
“If Gov. Romney ‘jumped the gun’ why were White House officials also distancing themselves from the statement?” Romney spokeswoman Andrea Saul said in a statement. “Why didn’t President Obama take any questions from the press this morning to explain?”Honestly, the Romney camp would be doing a better spin job today if they just said, "Hey, look over there," and then ran off behind the nearest tree. And doing so would be a step up in terms of maturity and poise.
"There's a broader lesson to be learned here: Gov. Romney seems to have a tendency to shoot first and aim later and as president one of the things I've learned is you can't do that," Obama told CBS News Wednesday."It's important for you to make sure that the statements that you make are backed up by the facts and that you've thought through the ramifications before you make them."posted by edgeways at 1:31 PM on September 12, 2012 [33 favorites]
Mission: "The primary mission of the Marine Security Guard (MSG) is to provide internal security at designated U.S. diplomatic and consular facilities in order to prevent the compromise of classified material vital to the national security of the United States.posted by ericb at 1:36 PM on September 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
What was Team Romney thinking? I’m not really sure, but I happened to speak this morning to a senior Romney adviser from a previous campaign who offered his own theory. According to this person, Romney may have been feeling defensive over the hazing he took in Charlotte last week--“my opponent and his running mate are new to foreign policy,” the president tweaked him—and was primed to hit back. “They set him up Thursday night at the convention with the smack down on foreign policy,” says the former adviser. “They called him naïve, Palin-esque. Then he got his back up about it and was waiting for opportunity to show, ‘I’m strong, too.’”posted by zombieflanders at 1:41 PM on September 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
The adviser has no direct, inside knowledge of the campaign’s thinking on this matter. But he does have a good read on Romney--a man with a healthy sense of pride, and who's already invested in the idea of Obama as an appeaser. It was the only plausible explanation the adviser could think of for how “they stepped in it,” in his words. “I always thought it was a one-two punch [by the Obama campaign],” the adviser continued. “Punch one was Thursday night. Punch two would be in the foreign policy debate. To cast Romney as naïf, an empty suit on foreign policy, and tie him to Bush—as a puppet of the bow-tied hawks of the Bush administration. … This intervening event was gravy.”
A U.S. source told CBS News investigative producer Pat Milton that authorities were "leaning" toward the theory that al Qaeda planned the attack and that the protest seems to have been a fortuitous coincidence for the militants. The fact that some of the attackers were armed with rockets and grenades is one of the factors leading to that initial conclusion.posted by ericb at 1:46 PM on September 12, 2012 [2 favorites]
Rogers told Jackson there was a "high likelihood" that the attack had an affiliation with "al Qaeda elements in Libya."
Wanis al-Sharef, a Libyan Interior Ministry official in Benghazi, said there had been threats that Islamic militants might try to take revenge for the death of al Qaeda's No. 2 commander Abu Yahya al-Libi, who was killed in a U.S. drone strike in Pakistan in June, and he said the U.S. consulate should have been better protected.
Confirming al-Libi's death for the first time in a video posted online Monday, al Qaeda chief Ayman Al-Zawahri called on Muslims in al-Libi's native Libya to take revenge for his death.
Some authorities are looking at the possibility that the attack may have been planned to coincide with the anniversary of the Sept. 11 terror attacks and this week's killing in Yemen of Saeed al-Shihri, who was second in command of al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, Milton reports.
U.S. officials believe the militants were using the demonstration against the video as a cover to get into the consulate and then take as much revenge as they could on Americans, CBS News national security correspondent David Martin reports. *
According to a recent Ipsos/Reuters poll, voters believe President Barack Obama is stronger on foreign policy than Mitt Romney by 51-35 percent. The president also enjoys a 47-38 percent advantage on national security and has a 50-35 percent advantage on the war on terror.posted by ericb at 1:50 PM on September 12, 2012
A statement released on the behalf of the 80 cast and crew members of "Innocence of Muslims," a film that reportedly prompted Tuesday protests at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo and the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, indicates that they are not happy with the film and were misled by the producer.from CNN.
"The entire cast and crew are extremely upset and feel taken advantage of by the producer. We are 100% not behind this film and were grossly misled about its intent and purpose," the statement says. "We are shocked by the drastic re-writes of the script and lies that were told to all involved. We are deeply saddened by the tragedies that have occurred."
A Timeline Of The Attacks In Libya And Egypt — And The Responses, Brian Beutler, Talking Points Memo, 12 September, 2012
After the protests erupted and Bacile appeared in the media, Garcia called him up to express her outrage at his deception. "I called Sam and said, 'Why did you do this?' and he said, 'I'm tired of radical Islamists killing each other. Let other actors know it's not their fault.'" Garcia isn't satisfied simply knowing it wasn't her fault. "I'm going to sue his butt off."posted by sallybrown at 2:40 PM on September 12, 2012
Top U.S. Military Officer Calls Pastor Over Film, Phil Stewart and David Adams, Reuters, 12 September, 2012
General Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the U.S. military's Joint Chiefs of Staff, spoke with Pastor Terry Jones by phone on Wednesday and asked him to withdraw his support for a film whose portrayal of the Prophet Mohammad has sparked violent protests - including one that ended with the death of America's envoy to Libya.
Libya Attack May Have Been Planned and Organized, Mark Hosenball, et al., Reuters, 12 September, 2012
A London think-tank run by a former Libyan militant leader suggested on Tuesday that not only was the Benghazi attack "well planned," but that it may have been retaliation for an American drone attack which killed a Libyan leader of al-Qaeda's core command group earlier this year.posted by ob1quixote at 2:58 PM on September 12, 2012 [1 favorite]
The Quilliam Foundation said that 24 hours before the Benghazi incident, al Qaeda leader, Ayman al-Zawahiri, distributed a video to militant websites in which he confirmed the death of his second in command, known as Abu Yahya al-Libi, and urged Libyans to avenge his killing.
Martin Dempsey, the chairman of President Obama’s Joint Chiefs of Staff, spoke Wednesday morning by phone with Terry Jones, pleading with the Florida-based anti-Islamic pastor to stop promoting a film that protesters have cited in the attacks on the U.S. consulate in Libya that killed at least four American diplomats.posted by BobbyVan at 2:58 PM on September 12, 2012
“This was a brief call,” an Obama administration official told reporters Wednesday, adding that Dempsey discussed the “tensions it could inflame and the violence it could cause.”
“He asked Pastor Jones to consider withdrawing his support for the film,” the administration official said, adding: “Mr. Jones did hear the chairman’s concerns but he was non-committal."
"I disagree with the original statements that the embassy put out -- that the administration put out in Cairo sympathizing with the people who were storming the embassy," Ryan said in the Fox interview Wednesday. "We should stand up for our values. We should stand up for our free speech rights and so I think that statement was wrong and the administration was right to walk it back after they had stood by that statement a couple of times."...posted by sallybrown at 3:33 PM on September 12, 2012
Still, GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney stuck to an attack that Obama was expressing sympathy with the attackers. Ryan did not make the same statement during a Wednesday afternoon appearance in Wisconsin, instead talking about the need for stronger leadership abroad -- a hit on Obama, but a softer one. But Ryan spoke to van Susteren just after that town hall, and apparently decided to echo Romney by criticizing the embassy statement.
Former President Carter's handling of the Iranian hostage crisis helped torpedo his reelection hopes. But when news broke in April 1980 that an attempt to rescue Americans held hostage at the Tehran embassy had failed, the immediate response from the campaign trail was more supportive than critical.posted by zombieflanders at 3:39 PM on September 12, 2012 [13 favorites]
Former California Governor Ronald Reagan told reporters it wouldn't be appropriate for him to express an opinion at that time. "This is the time for us as a nation and a people to stand united" and to pray, Reagan said, according to United Press International.
George H.W. Bush, also campaigning for the Republican presidential nomination, went further. "I unequivocally support the president of the United States -- no ifs, ands or buts -- and it certainly is not a time to try to go one-up politically. He made a difficult, courageous decision," Bush said in Michigan, UPI reported.
Democratic challenger Senator Edward Kennedy of Massaschusetts also called for unity. The strongest criticism of Carter came from a Democratic long-shot: then-Rep. Henry Reuss, D-Wis., who said that Carter should withdraw his candidacy and "quietly serve out his term without any more impulsive actions," UPI reported.
Female Roles: CONDALISA (featured) 40, attractive, successful, strong willed; HILLARY (featured) 18 but must look younger, petite; innocent...Uh, weird coincidence?
"Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans are now dead in the chaos of a destabilized Middle East. President Obama said he "rejects" these brutal acts, and condemns them in "the strongest terms" - yet still acknowledges our attackers' supposed justification. This kind of language broadcasts an impotent foreign policy that fostered this crisis in the first place.posted by sallybrown at 5:06 PM on September 12, 2012
The recent conservative opposition to empathy might seem like a symptom of this epistemic closure, but I think it's more than that. I think it's a cause — maybe even the root cause.Pretty much.
Empathy, at its most basic level, is epistemic. It is sometimes discussed as though it is identical to love, respect or regard for others, but really it precedes that. It is what makes such love, respect or regard for others possible — what informs it. Empathy is a way of seeing, and therefore a way of knowing. To avoid empathy is to limit one's own perspective to only one's own perspective — to choose not to see and therefore to choose not to know. Worse than that — it is to choose not to be able to know.
Empathy, in other words, makes you smarter and wiser. Rejecting empathy makes you dumber and more foolish. To choose not to see what empathy shows us is to choose stupidity.
Nakoula denied he directed the film and said he knew the self-described filmmaker, Sam Bacile. But the cellphone number that AP contacted Tuesday to reach the filmmaker who identified himself as Sam Bacile traced to the same address near Los Angeles where AP found Nakoula. Federal court papers said Nakoula's aliases included Nicola Bacily, Erwin Salameh and others.Note that he denies he is Sam Bacile.
"We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen," [Steve] Klein said.So Klein is cognizant of his role in inciting the hatred that resulted in American and Libyan deaths and Romney and his apologists think that these are the people who need to be "vigorously defended." Romney/Ryan: zealously defending the right to play with fire in a powder keg.
In essence, there were ties sought, and then relationships opened with the Ayatollahs and the revolutionary government of Iran, and the allegation is, in these several books, that basically, contact was made by George Bush and Bill Casey, who later became the next CIA director, and had been in the OSS in World War II; and the point was that the Iranian government was being offered money and arms if they held onto the hostages. In other words, you don’t free the hostages before the election. You hold onto them."Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice.....don't get fooled again."
...
But in December of 1992 and January of 1993, the congressional informal investigation had received material from the French and from the Russians that related to the fact that they had observed and noticed that these negotiations were in fact held. A book was later published by Pierre Salinger, who was with ABC news in France at the time, that made mention of these negotiations, and the French intelligence people had helped Bill Casey arrange them. So, there was confirmation from the French. It did not say that George H.W. Bush was involved. The Russians sent back a communication that their intelligence services had in fact observed, and been reported to, that the Republicans talked to the Iranians in Paris, and that both George Bush and Bill Casey were there. An Israeli agent named Ari Ben-Menashe said the same thing in a book, but he was essentially repudiated by the Israeli government. He said he wasn’t anybody, he didn’t know much, and that sort of dragged along. Nobody credited him, but in 1998 an examination came out, the history of the Israeli Mossad, by an English writer, that said basically, he was subject to a disinformation campaign. This did in fact happen. So, there you are. There’s recent material from the French, from the Russians, and from the Israelis, that the odds are much higher that this did in fact take place. ...
Donald Trump: "As bad as they were, I don't remember our embassies being attacked when Mubarak and Gaddafi were in power."Holy crap.
"People at the highest levels both at the State Department and at the White House were not happy with the way the statement went down. There was a lot of anger both about the process and the content," the official said. "Frankly, people here did not understand it. The statement was just tone deaf. It didn't provide adequate balance. We thought the references to the 9/11 attacks were inappropriate, and we strongly advised against the kind of language that talked about ‘continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims.'"posted by BobbyVan at 8:20 PM on September 12, 2012
Sarah Palin: Libya, Egypt Attacks On American Facilities Show Obama Needs To Grow 'Big Stick'
Vile Rat Memorial Not Purple Shoot It Diplomatic Disaster Opposted by ryanrs at 11:18 PM on September 12, 2012 [35 favorites]
In the past 12 hours, I've heard many stories about what a good man Vile Rat was, and I expect you've heard the same. He was friendly, even-tempered, sharp and witty, a genuine pleasure to be around. As an internet spaceship diplomat his accomplishments eclipse even DaiTengu, yet despite having reshaped the server to his will, he never stopped being an approachable person, a real chill Sigma. Also he scammed Phreeze out of an Avatar and if that isn't a sign of fundamental human decency, brothers and sisters, well then I don't know what is.
That is not to say that Vile Rat was perfect: he was fervently devoted to the Chargers, which was undoubtedly indicative of some deeper flaws in his personality, and he had terrible taste in even fake tattoos. He had no eyebrows, which was something he was generous enough not to pass on to his children who thankfully take after their mother. Vile Rat also inexplicably liked solving diplomatic problems, even the massive clusterfuck hell-problems goons instigate on a daily basis. Well, we can't do anything about the Chargers, and Blawrf has already magnanimously volunteered to get a Vile Tat tribute tattoo in his honor, so the best avenue for us to remember this bald D&D moderator with no eyebrows is with a shoot blues of monstrous proportions. To this end The Adj has asked that I post a "Not Purple Shoot It" op from UMI, in which a flotilla of ridiculously expensive ships shall sally forth and shoot anything that is not them, and then, perhaps, thunderdome until not a single ship remains. I have no doubt that such a flagrant and expensive disregard for standings would bring tears of joy to Vile Rat's eyes. As you grieve, remember that Vile Rat died doing what he loved, eating Libyan food and enraging people to the point of absurdity by his bare existence.
WHEN: 1900 SATURDAY
WHERE: UMI-KK
WHO: THEADJ
WHAT: FACTION ANYTHING/EXPENSIVE SHIT YOU WANT REMOVED FROM YOUR POSSESSION THROUGH EXPLOSIONS/ANYTHING ELSE
REIMBURSABLE: HAHAHAHAHAHA ARE YOU JOKING ME HAHAHAHA
These cartoons are indeed offensive to the belief of Muslims. We all fully recognize and respect freedom of the press and expression but it must be coupled with press responsibility. Inciting religious or ethnic hatreds in this manner is not acceptable. *and this
Some have sought to justify this vicious behavior as a response to inflammatory material posted on the Internet. The United States deplores any intentional effort to denigrate the religious beliefs of others. Our commitment to religious tolerance goes back to the very beginning of our nation. But let me be clear: There is never any justification for violent acts of this kind. *There is no material difference between the reactions of the previous administration and the current one when it comes to forms of "expression" that purposefully degrade the religious beliefs of others. Belief in the freedom of expression and the belief that said freedom carries responsibility are not mutually exclusive, and on that point, it seemed Republicans and Democrats used to agree.
might not be room in the First Amendment for the "denigration" of other religions if it might lead to a violent reactionWhoa whoa whoa, those commenters were talking about inciting violence, which is not First Amendment free speech, period. Constitution 101. 9th grade civics. Other examples of Not Free Speech according to US values:
But Obama's remarks belie the enormous frustration of top officials at the State Department and White House with the actions of the man behind the statement, Cairo senior public affairs officer Larry Schwartz, who wrote the release and oversees the embassy's Twitter feed, according to a detailed account of the Tuesday's events.See also this from Wired Magazine: Besieged U.S. Embassy #Fails Its Twitter Defense.
roomthreeseventeen:I saw that interview this morning. Portman either just couldn't understand what was being explained to him or was unwilling to step away from talking points. The interviewer was obviously exasperated and eventually gave up and moved on. It was sad, really. I'm embarrassed that this guy represents me in the Senate and will do my best to kick his ass out when the time comes.
"“I still think, Norah, you know, it implies that somehow the attacks could be justified by, again, a video.”"
"In an effort to cool the situation down, it didn't come from me, it didn't come from Secretary Clinton. It came from people on the ground who are potentially in danger. And my tendency is to cut folks a little bit of slack when they're in that circumstance, rather than try to question their judgment from the comfort of a campaign office."but I see you didn't quote that.
desjardins:Yes, but it was highlighted by an Egyptian-American blogger last week, and a portion was shown on Egyptian television on 9 September.Whether or not Al Qaeda made the film, it's pretty transparently an excuse for the violence, but it's curious that they waited so long (the trailer was posted in July).
Islamist groups and others have called for a "million-man march" in Cairo on Friday.This just bolsters my belief that the film was a pretext, because what do football fans and Christians care? I mean, enough to march about it?
The Muslim Brotherhood, the Salafist al-Nour party and non-religious groups including the "Ultra" fans of Zamalek football club have invited Muslims, Coptic Christians and all Egyptian citizens to join them.
Produced and promoted by a strange collection of rightwing Christian evangelicals and exiled Egyptian Copts, the trailer was created with the intention of both destabilizing post-Mubarak Egypt and roiling the US presidential election. As a consultant for the film named Steve Klein said: "We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen."posted by ericb at 12:22 PM on September 13, 2012 [4 favorites]
... Styling themselves as "counter-Jihadists", anti-Muslim crusaders like Klein took their cues from top propagandists like Pamela Geller, the blogger who once suggested that Barack Obama was the lovechild of Malcolm X, and Robert Spencer, a pseudo-academic expert on Muslim radicalization who claimed that Islam was no more than "a developed doctrine and tradition of warfare against unbelievers".
Both Geller and Spencer were labeled hate group leaders by the Southern Poverty Law Center.
... On his personal Facebook page, Altar or Abolish, Klein obsesses over the Muslim Brotherhood, describing the organization as "a global network of Muslims attacking to convert the world's 6 billion people to Islam or kill them". Klein urges a violent response to the perceived threat of Islam in the United States, posting an image to his website depicting a middle-American family with a mock tank turret strapped to the roof of their car. "Can you direct us to the nearest mosque?" read a caption Klein added to the photo.
Then, as Romney continued to lament the loss of U.S. Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens, and the three others killed in Benghazi, a heckler distracted him.For so long, I assumed that because he looked like some sort of Mattel-designed Robot President, he would be a smooth talker, but he has the worst speaking instincts of any politician I've seen (especially when off the cuff). He should have called for the moment of silence, let the heckler heckle all he wants, and then the heckler is perceived as the insensitive douche rather than (ok, in addition to) Romney. Instead Romney sounds self-pitying (waaah I wanted to do a moment of silence!).
"What a tragedy, to lose such a wonderful, wonderful, uh," Romney said, as the heckler began to yell, "Why are you politicizing Libya?"
Romney continued, "wonderful people that have been so wonderful."
The crowd chanted the heckler down, and then Romney made a decision that if he held a moment of silence, it would be disrupted by the protester.
"And so I would offer a moment of silence but one gentleman doesn't want to be silent so we're going to keep on going," Romney said.
But in the end, they were not immune to the violence they incited.May he be beaten with shoes by angry people once a day every day for the rest of his life.
According to Copts Today, an Arabic news outlet focusing on Coptic affairs, Sadek was seen taking a leisurely stroll down Washington's M Street on September 11, soaking in the sun on a perfect autumn day. All of a sudden, he found himself surrounded by four angry Coptic women. Berating Sadek for fueling the flames of sectarian violence, the women took off their heels and began beating him over the head.
"If anything happens to a Christian in Egypt," one of them shouted at him, "you'll be the reason!"
It turns out her lines weren't replaced; they told her it was a 'historical film' and added all of the offensive language afterward without her knowledge.
On Thursday morning, no one answered the door at Nakoula's house in a quiet, well-heeled neighborhood in Cerritos. Three vehicles were parked in front, one in the driveway and two in the middle of the street, apparently parked in haste, one with bags of groceries in the back.Sounds like he and his family have fled or possibly been taken? The 3 vehicles (one with groceries still inside) worry me.
The doorstep was littered with junk mail and a pair of girl's sneakers, alongside a small statue of Mary holding Jesus.
Bob Braun, 89, who lives across the cul-de-sac from the home, said he did not know much about the family but they had lived there for several years. He recalled seeing a tall man who often wore robes and said there had been small children there. At one point, the family had a basketball hoop and trampoline in front of the house.
A man who answered the door at the Cerritos home Wednesday afternoon said he rents from Nakoula, but said, "I don't think he has money for a movie."
So why did I tweet that Bacile should be in jail? The "free speech" in Bacile's film is not about expressing a personal opinion about Islam. It denigrates the religion by depicting the faith's founder in several ludicrous and historically inaccurate scenes to incite and inflame viewers. Even the film's actors say they were duped.posted by BobbyVan at 3:17 PM on September 13, 2012
...
Case in point: Gen. Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, called Jones on Wednesday to ask him to stop promoting Bacile's film. Clearly, the military considers the film a serious threat to national security. If the military takes it seriously, there should be consequences for putting American lives at risk.
What is the worst possible thing that Egg Romney could call the Romney flying machine? Here is a message from His Lord High Hairgel Mittens of Romney, to inform us!posted by ericb at 3:28 PM on September 13, 2012
Ann likes to joke that the campaign plane should be called “Hair Force One.”
California Penal Code § 404.6 - Incitement to riotNOTE: "engages in conduct that urges a riot". You have to actually urge a riot.
a) Every person who with the intent to cause a riot does an act or engages in conduct that urges a riot, or urges others to commit acts of force or violence, or the burning or destroying of property, and at a time and place and under circumstances that produce a clear and present and immediate danger of acts of force or violence or the burning or destroying of property, is guilty of incitement to riot.
absalom:You can't, because they don't genuinely believe the things they're saying in the first place.How do you redirect such colossal ignorance?
False Witnesses, Fred Clark, Slacktivist, 8 September, 2008
In my past life as an evangelical for social action, I had a much-photocopied dossier in my desk drawer from the Procter & Gamble corporation. This surreal document was the company’s sadly necessary response to the urban legend that the manufacturer of Tide, Crest and Dawn was some kind of satanic cult.v.q.
Briefly, the idea was that the CEO of P&G had at some vague point in the recent past appeared on some talk show — Phil Donahue, or Sally Jesse, or Oprah, the story mutated and adapted over time — and declared that he was a Satanist and that a portion of the company’s profits were donated regularly to the Church of Satan. (If you’re not familiar with it, Snopes has a good rundown of the history of this sordid, stupid lie.)
[…]
But in any case, no one is stupid enough to really believe such a story. The coworkers or relatives who fill your inbox with urban legends and hoaxes may not be the sharpest tools in the shed, but none of them is stupid enough to believe this. And neither are those people who claim that they do believe it.
False Witnesses 2, Fred Clark, Slacktivist, 8 October, 2008
Btw, this just cost Obama the election. Way to pay him back for saving your fucking lives, you moronic idiots. posted by empath at 7:17 AM on September 12LOL, Probably the most hilariously wrong political prediction I've seen on in a while. (By hilariously wrong, I don't just mean wrong to such an extent that it's hilarious (although that too) but in a way which is itself hilarious)
Get your unfriend buttons ready! Four Americans dead, multiple embassy's and missions stormed, the body of a US Ambassador paraded through the streets for more than 5 hours, US Marines being denied the right to self defense while taking small arms, rocket, and mortar fire. All this over a stupid movie. Not one Muslim who has stormed an embassy or mission of the US (which is sovereign US soil) pulled down our flag and burned it in the street suffered so much a slap in the face. Yet it is death to America across the Arab world. Islam is a peaceful religion, and you can't judge it based on radicals. Least that's what I am told. Yet where is CAIR, the Nation of Islam, the Muslim Brotherhood (wait I know where they are, they are inciting the violence), or any of the other so called moderate Muslim organizations? Oh, when a Muslim woman is patted down by the TSA you can't get them off the TV, but now, MI-stinkin-A! Demanding the death of anyone because they made fun of your prophet is beyond peaceful, it is blood thirsty. People of other religions are killed on a daily basis in Egypt, Iran, Somalia, Iraq, Afganistan, and the list goes on, for simply not being Muslim. Yet you don't hear of the the Libyan, or Egyptian embassy's in Europe and North America being overrun by angry Non-Muslims. One movie and it is chants of death to America. US citizens killed, an US AMBASSADOR MURDERED AND PARADED THROUGH THE STREET, yet their embassy's stand unmolested. Don't talk to me of peace, love, and tolerance. I for one don't want to hear it. I am not sorry your feelings got hurt, nor am I sorry that you were offended. Anyone willing to open their eyes will realize that a slight to ones religion is not now nor will it ever be grounds for murder!Much of this seems contrary to the facts as I understand them. Which is to say that people get riled up about what they heard on the Internet or from a friend-of-a-friend, no matter what the country. One can only hope that any knuckleheads reading the above have the good sense to stay home rather than go up to Connecticut Avenue and make a bad situation even worse.
Wingnuts Falsely Claim Obama Administration Forbade Marines From Carrying Live Ammo, Kevin Drum, Mother Jones, 13 September, 2012
EmpressCallipygos:I'm wondering if he could be charged or sued for some sort of reckless endangerment. "Thanks for getting me listed on the fatwa, asshole."
"My question is - do the cast and crew have the right to sue the guy for breach of contract or deception or anything like that?"
"Following Friday prayers, hundreds of demonstrators massed in protest against the Pope's three-day visit to Lebanon and shouted anti-American slogans. The chants included "We don't want the Pope ..."Well, we don't want him, either!
A University of Texas police spokesman told CNN that "it was a general bomb threat on campus." A university spokeswoman told CNN affiliate KXAN that a male claiming to be with al Qaeda called the university and said that bombs were placed all over campus, and that they would go off at about 10 a.m. CT (11 a.m. ET).What an asshole if this is a prank (or if not)!!
When Secretary of State Hillary Clinton tried to calm Muslims Thursday by denouncing the video, she was unwittingly playing along with the ruse the radicals set up. The United States would have been better off focusing on the only outrage that was of legitimate interest to the American government: the lack of respect—shown by a complaisant Egyptian government and other Islamists—for U.S. diplomatic missions.posted by BobbyVan at 9:07 AM on September 14, 2012
...the U.S. would do well to remember Osama bin Laden's comment not long after the Sept. 11 attacks: "When people see a strong horse and a weak horse, by nature they will like the strong horse." America should do nothing that enables Islamists to portray the nation as the weak horse.
"Better security would not have stopped this," said Adel Ibrahim, the owner of the accommodation building where blood is now spattered beneath a hole smashed in a wall by a heavy projectile. "A security unit is fine if you are facing 10 persons, but there were 400 attackers. [The Americans] would have needed an army to stop them." [...]Sad, sad, sad.
There is evidence that at least some of the demonstrators were horrified by what they saw: a group of civilians found the ambassador, smoke-blackened and bleeding from a cut in his head, and rushed him to the city's main hospital, Benghazi Medical Centre.
Staff there had been expecting the ambassador at 11am on Wednesday as he had come to Benghazi to inaugurate a landmark medical exchange project between the centre and Harvard Medical School, the centre's director, Dr Fathi al-Jehani, said. Instead, Stevens' body arrived at the emergency ramp at 2am, together with a Libyan embassy translator who had been shot in the leg.
[T]he U.S. would do well to remember Osama bin Laden's comment not long after the Sept. 11 attacks: "When people see a strong horse and a weak horse, by nature they will like the strong horse." America should do nothing that enables Islamists to portray the nation as the weak horse.America showed them who was the "strong horse" within a couple of months of 9/11, then again in 2003. How well did the "strong horse" work in our relations with Islam and Islamic nations, again?
Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman John F. Kerry (D-Mass.), who had worked closely with Haqqani, said in a statement he was “sorry” for the resignation and called Haqqani “a strong advocate for his country and the Pakistani people . . . [whose] wisdom and insights will be missed here in Washington as we continue to work through the ups and downs of our relationship.”posted by BobbyVan at 9:41 AM on September 14, 2012
inigo2:No no no. You prop up a dictator who does what you want for twenty years and arm him to the teeth so he can keep his people suppressed. Then it isn't US who's doing the killing. No one will hate us afterwards, right?
"Paint "we support free speech" on bombs and drop them, of course. Otherwise they're the reason protests happen."
And insults, real or hyped, are not the problem. At the heart of Muslim street violence is the frustration of the world's Muslims over their steady decline for three centuries, a decline that has coincided with the rise and spread of the West's military, economic and intellectual prowess.posted by BobbyVan at 10:18 AM on September 14, 2012
During the 800 years of Muslim ascendancy beginning in the eighth century—in Southern Europe, North Africa and much of Western Asia—Muslims did not riot to protest non-Muslim insults against Islam or its prophet. There is no historic record of random attacks against non-Muslim targets in retaliation for a non-Muslim insulting Prophet Muhammad, though there are many books derogatory toward Islam's prophet that were written in the era of Islam's great empires. Muslims under Turkey's Ottomans, for example, did not attack non-Muslim envoys (the medieval equivalent of today's embassies) or churches upon hearing of real or rumored European sacrilege against their religion.
MITT ROMNEY: Well, I said that there are five different studies that point out that we can get to a balanced budget without raising taxes on middle income people. Let me tell you, George, the fundamentals of my tax policy are these. Number one, reduce tax burdens on middle-income people. So no one can say my plan is going to raise taxes on middle-income people, because principle number one is keep the burden down on middle-income taxpayers.There is a competition in speed of narrative development that is occurring and I am curious to see how both campaigns handle this combination of foreign policy and perception issues.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: Is $100,000 middle income?
MITT ROMNEY: No, middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less. (source)
“I think the challenge that I’ll have in the debate is that the president tends to, how shall I say it, to say things that aren’t true,” Romney said. “I’ve looked at prior debates. And in that kind of case, it’s difficult to say, ‘Well, am I going to spend my time correcting things that aren’t quite accurate? Or am I going to spend my time talking about the things I want to talk about?”BWA-HA-HA-HA! You can SMELL the desperation!
"As the turmoil in the Middle East thrust foreign policy to the forefront of the presidential campaign, Mitt Romney found himself at odds with his own foreign policy advisers. While two of his advisers in interviews said that Mr. Romney had a different “red line” on Iran from President Obama, Mr. Romney told ABC News that his red line is the same as that of the president."I'm imagining Romney campaign HQ as something like a slapstick comedy written by David Lynch.
The United States would have been better off focusing on the only outrage that was of legitimate interest to the American government: the lack of respect—shown by a complaisant Egyptian government and other Islamists—for U.S. diplomatic missions.I agree with this. So specifically, I'd suggest, for starters, that our government stop flagging videos on Youtube for removal (as if that would do a damned thing at this point) and overall stop making this about the freaking movie. This advice applies to the Romney campaign as well, which has handled the situation in typically poor fashion.
Mitt Romney created his most recent campaign shitstorm by launching an attack that was, simultaneously, an absurdly disingenuous argument built upon a series of demonstrable lies. After an initial period of recrimination and lashing out at the media, Romney and his allies are insisting that he was absolutely correct all along. It is a remarkable testament to the party’s ability not just to engage in spin but create and sustain an alternate reality.posted by ericb at 12:18 PM on September 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I believe Obama views the so-called Arab Spring as driven by the internal currents of the Arab world, and not something America can control. Given America’s inescapable centrality, however, those currents can’t simply be ignored, which means we have to surf those unpredictable waves as best one can, so as to keep our own interests afloat. Inevitable, sometimes we’re going to get wet doing so.I was thinking that this wave of rioting is like a bucking bronco: you ride the beast as best you can and hope he gets tired out before you get thrown. Plus experience helps you to stay in the saddle.
Unemployment rates (percent) Country group Youth Overall MENA 25.9 11.14 Low income 9.9 4.88 Middle income 19.6 6.58 High income 13.6 6.68
Employment and Equality of Opportunity in the Middle East and North Africa, pg. 6, Djavad Salehi-Isfahani, Conference on Employment — Global and Country Perspectives, New York University, 26-27 September, 2011
we must stop pretending that all is well with the Arab Spring. But all is not lost either.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:13 PM on September 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Arab societies are on a journey. They can easily take the wrong turn. The attacks on the American embassies in Libya, Egypt and Yemen are examples of the ongoing presence of intolerant, tyrannical actors in Arab societies.[...] It is hard for younger Arabs not born into freedom to understand how individual liberty works in real life.
"Since leading eighteenth century Americans had known many occasions on which mobs took on the defense of public welfare, which was, after all, the stated purpose of government, they were less likely to deny popular upheavals all legitimacy than are modern leaders. While not advocating popular uprisings, they could still grant such incidents an established and necessary role in free societies, one that made them an integral and even respected element of the political order."Rent riots; religious riots; housing riots; political and electoral riots -- all part of the messy process of America's revolution and independence. All of these even before we get to the War of Independence. What person, informed by history, could suggest that the season of the Arab Spring would be the end of things, the end of riot and revolt?
hap_hazard:This actually cuts way closer to the bone than I thought it would. There really are millions of people in America who see Realpolitik as an action movie, aren't there? As if Sylvester Stallone and Chuck Norris actually settled up the score in southeast Asia, and now it's time for Christian Bale and Matt Damon to settle up in MENA. God help us.American Foreign Policy by Francis Walsingham
HANNITY: All right, so I am beyond outraged, angry, Senator. Here we have, our embassy is attacked, our flag ripped down, chanting, you know, that is going on in support of al Qaeda, et cetera, and the official position of the Obama administration through their State Department, for anywhere between 10 and 16 hours is we apologize to them! I am trying to understand this, Senator?Even McCain couldn't stomach that one ("Well, I am not sure there was an apology..."). A partisan political figure who was his party's *presidential nominee* corrects *a journalist* for misrepresenting the President? My god. Fuck Fox News.
Admittedly, I don't live in the middle east, but here's a couple big disconnects for me. 1, I don't believe a 'movie' would incite these riots. This 'movie' is not the first of its type, nor will it be the last. I can believe it was used as an excuse or a justification after the fact but I cannot see it being the single, definitive device of incitement. (Suggesting to people that 'Muslim's' can be goaded into such response is derogatory and suggests that 'Muslim's' are as a group incapable of rational behavior and likely to fly off the handle at the slightest provocation.)Why not? Look at the danish cartoon thing. Other then the cartoon, what other problems would people in the middle east have with Denmark? I mean, maybe there is tension with Muslim citizens, but would the average person who rioted there have known anything about it?
If the opinion of the ex-Ambassador of Pakistan lacks any authority simply because 1) it was published in the WSJOf course we can. Anything published in the WSJ op-ed section can be dismissed out of hand. It's a hotbed of global warming denial and other right-wing counterfactual b.s. People who are wrong a lot love to whine about so-called Ad-Hominems whenever anyone points out they're wrong a lot.
Nobody knew back then that this was the doing of the newly created Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), which was born in July 1947. It was actually the first overseas operation of the CIA. Stephan Meade, the US military attaché in Damascus, and Miles Copeland, an Embassy official who was working with the CIA and later played a role in bringing down King Farouk of Egypt, were behind the coup. They complained to Washington DC that after the war of 1948, Syria was being stubborn on three main issues:You probably don't know who Shukri al-Quwatli was: the second democratically elected leader of the Republic of Syria.
1) Armistice with Israel
2) Refusing to outlaw the popular Communist Party in Syria
3) Refusing to grant passage rights to the Trans-Arabian Pipeline (Tapline), running from Saudi Arabia to Sidon in Lebanon, through Syria.
When Quwatli refused to budge on all three issues, the CIA famously instructed: “If you cannot change the game, change the players!”
Copeland and Meade began searching for alternatives to Shukri al-Quwatli. The broad requirement was: “He must be anxious for power. He must be power crazy.” They added, “We need someone who would have power like no other Arab leader has had before. That is because he will be asked un-popular decisions. People will constantly compare between him and Quwatli and that is why he should not be concerned with what people say of him.”
We might ask why there should have been "a campaign of hatred against us by the people" already in July 1958, when the US had just unceremoniously expelled Israel from the Sinai and its allies from the Canal Zone after the Israeli-French-British invasion of Egypt, and well before the "special relationship" with Israel was in place. It's easy to explain the hatred in Iran, where a CIA coup overthrew the conservative parliamentary regime and restored the Shah in 1953. A decade of CIA operations in Syria may help explain the matter further. Syria had traditionally been pro-American, but clandestine US intervention "helped reverse a century of friendship," Douglas Little observes in a review of these operations. In 1948, the CIA approached Chief of Staff Husni Zaim to discuss the "possibility [of an] army supported dictatorship," a result achieved when Zaim overthrew the goverment a few months later. Zaim called for peace talks with Israel, offering to resettle 250,000 Palestinian refugees, and approved an ARAMCO oil pipeline concession. Israel chose not to pursue the diplomatic opportunity. Zaim was overthrown a few months later. In 1951, Col Adib Shishakli overthrew the government and set up a military dictatorship, with clandestine US support. Matters drifted out of control again, and in March 1956, Eisenhower approved Project Omega, which aimed to overthrow the increasingly pro-Nasser regime in Syria as part of a more general plan to undermine Nasser by supporting the Gulf dictatorships and scuttling the Aswan Dam project. Operation Straggle, organized jointly with British intelligence to overthrow the government of Syria, was timed (apparently, under British initiative) exactly on the day of the invasion of Egypt, which France and Britain had kept secret from the US. Possibly the British goal was to keep the US preoccupied elsewhere. In any event, Syrian counterintelligence had uncovered the plot, and it quickly unravelled. The "Eisenhower Doctrine," approved by Congress in 1957, authorized the President to dispatch US troops to counter "Soviet subversion," the usual code word for independent initiatives (which, naturally, tended to lead to reliance on the USSR, given US hostility and subversion). While Egypt was the publicly-designated culprit, US officials believed that Syria was more "nearly under the control of international communism," Little concludes. Several clandestine operations sought to subvert the government of Syria, leading finally to a bungled CIA effort again penetrated by Syrian intelligence. The end result was great hostility to the US, close Syrian relations with the USSR, and much hysteria in Washington about "losing the whole Middle East to Communism."You also apparently forgot our relationship throughout the 90s as an ally when Syria joined the coalition that repelled the Iraqi invasion, culminating in a friendly meeting between then President Bill Clinton and Hafez al-Assad in 2000.
* Left home voluntarily to speak with probation officialsposted by ericb at 7:35 AM on September 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
* Nakoula not under arrest and not handcuffed
* Use of aliases, Internet may violate prison release terms
AL-Qaeda said the deadly attack on the US consulate in Benghazi, Libya was in revenge for the killing of the network's number two Sheikh Abu Yahya al-Libi, SITE Intelligence Group reported.posted by BobbyVan at 7:42 AM on September 15, 2012
"The killing of Sheikh Abu Yahya only increased the enthusiasm and determination of the sons of (Libyan independence hero) Omar al-Mokhtar to take revenge upon those who attack our Prophet," said al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula said in a statement, quoted by the US-based monitoring group.
...Clinton’s attempt to distance the U.S. from “Innocence of Muslims”--and, by extension, its felonious producer--may be complicated by the revelation that Nakoula Basseley Nakoula became a government informant after his 2009 arrest for bank fraud, The Smoking Gun has learned.posted by bitteschoen at 9:12 AM on September 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Though many key documents from the U.S. District Court case remain sealed, a June 2010 sentencing transcript provides an account of Nakoula’s cooperation with federal investigators in Los Angeles (and how his prison sentence was reduced as a result).
posted by valkyryn at 4:38 AM on September 12, 2012 [5 favorites]