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New Zealand loves its "precious"
October 14, 2012 11:34 AM   Subscribe

In anticipation of "The Hobbit" movie, New Zealand has issued "Lord of the Rings" themed coins that are legal tender.
posted by reenum (92 comments total) 11 users marked this as a favorite

 
I own all three LotR movies in both their theatrical and extended cuts and I still can't work up the slightest bit of enthusiasm for The Hobbit.

I didn't see The Lovely Bones and it sounds like it was a bad idea in the first place, but I feel bad that Peter Jackson has beaten a retreat like this.
posted by Egg Shen at 11:37 AM on October 14, 2012 [2 favorites]


that filmdrunk/uproxx article in the third link is mean.
posted by Bwithh at 11:38 AM on October 14, 2012 [3 favorites]


The metal used ... is it precious?
posted by zippy at 11:40 AM on October 14, 2012 [32 favorites]


Only thing I can think of is they are going to make a metric shitton of money off of this. I'd be surprised if any of this actually makes it into circulation.

...is mean.

Mean to the point of kinda wanting to kick the fella in the nuts.
posted by edgeways at 11:40 AM on October 14, 2012


that filmdrunk/uproxx article in the third link is mean.

I would have said "stupid". "Sheep King of Christchurch". Ha, ha. Look at how sophisticated we are. Is the author a particularly dim-witted 12 year old?

Kansas doesn't take this level of shit.
posted by brennen at 11:42 AM on October 14, 2012 [3 favorites]


Not nearly as exciting as the Lego.

Still, I couldn't help having my hopes raised by the last trailer I saw, even if it is going to be too Lord of the Ringsy for my tastes.
posted by Artw at 11:45 AM on October 14, 2012


I'm excited, stop trying to bring me down.
posted by Brocktoon at 11:46 AM on October 14, 2012 [6 favorites]


I can't help but think that they've missed an opportunity here.
posted by R. Schlock at 11:48 AM on October 14, 2012 [1 favorite]


Kansas doesn't take this level of shit.

Did Blazing Saddles not play in Kansas City?
posted by zippy at 11:52 AM on October 14, 2012


Doesn't Tolkien have some kind of magic wayfinding pebbles? They should sell those.
posted by Artw at 11:53 AM on October 14, 2012


Mean and stupid with unfunny jokes about New Zealand.
I wonder where that writer is from.
posted by fullerine at 11:53 AM on October 14, 2012


Kansas doesn't take this level of shit.

Somewhat related: Last summer I was driving through the Kansas turnpike, and I noticed that the Kansas travel centers were lousy with Superman and Wizard of Oz merchandise.

The two biggest pop culture draws for Kansas were both stories of how people escaped the state.

But on topic, that uproxx article is some incredibly obnoxious invective. How people can muster up the hatred that I would reserve for, say, racism towards a nation they will never visit in their short sad lives is beyond me.
posted by Shadax at 11:54 AM on October 14, 2012 [5 favorites]


To further increase tourism dollars New Zealand has announced a bold new Dragon breeding program for limited release into the wild.
posted by The Whelk at 11:54 AM on October 14, 2012 [6 favorites]


Kansas doesn't take this level of shit.

It could be worse, could be South Africa, which now seems to have established itself as cinematic shorthand for hell on earth.
posted by Artw at 11:54 AM on October 14, 2012 [2 favorites]


The two biggest pop culture draws for Kansas were both stories of how people escaped the state.

Believe me when I tell you this is not lost on the natives.
posted by brennen at 11:59 AM on October 14, 2012 [2 favorites]


How people can muster up the hatred that I would reserve for, say, racism towards a nation they will never visit in their short sad lives is beyond me.

Kiwis aren't a separate race.
posted by charlie don't surf at 12:09 PM on October 14, 2012


Artw: Doesn't Tolkien have some kind of magic wayfinding pebbles? They should sell those.

Perhaps you're confusing Tolkien with Brooks' Shannara? That sounds like the Elfstones.
posted by Malor at 12:11 PM on October 14, 2012


The Lovely Bones was an oscar-nominated feature that took on an unusual, difficult subject and won a lot of other awards along the way. How it stands in Peter Jackson's resume will remain to be seen, but one's "lack of enthusiasm" for a trilogy of movies is not really a meaty discussion if one is willing to trash/dismiss a film one didn't even see.
posted by jscott at 12:19 PM on October 14, 2012 [4 favorites]


I wonder where that writer is from.

He's American, of course, from California. And apparently, a "comedian" who also writes for Maxim. Explains it.
posted by New England Cultist at 12:22 PM on October 14, 2012


Gandalf didn't have magic rocks. You're thinking of Joseph Smith.
posted by Brocktoon at 12:23 PM on October 14, 2012 [2 favorites]


The rune writing on the coins is, "ᛗᛁᛞᛞᛚᛖ ᛖᚫᚱᚦ - ᚾᛖᚹ ᛣᛖᚫᛚᚫᚾᛞ", but that's only a simple transliteration following spelling, and says something like "mid-dleh e-arth - new ke-aland". A proper transcription following pronunciation would be something like, "ᛗᛁᛞᛖᛚ ᛖᚱᚦ - ᚾᚢ ᛋᛁᛚᚫᚾᛞ", or "mid-el erth - noo seeland".

Did they just get a Futhorc font* and type the text in? So shoddy.

*Actually, if kalk was used for "z", then it's most likely yr mapped to the "z" key on some Younger Futhark font. But then mann is present and not maðr, so maybe not.
posted by Jehan at 12:23 PM on October 14, 2012 [7 favorites]


Well, "see" is Afrikaans for "sea", which itself is derived from the Dutch "zee".
posted by New England Cultist at 12:27 PM on October 14, 2012


Kiwis aren't a separate race.

Kia ora koutou
Ko Infinite Jest ahau
Ko Kaukau te maunga
Ko Ngai Tahu me Pakeha te iwi

;-)
posted by Infinite Jest at 12:27 PM on October 14, 2012 [7 favorites]


They not "Lord of the Rings" themed, they're "The Hobbit" themed.
posted by blue_beetle at 12:30 PM on October 14, 2012


FWIW I thought the book The Lovely Bones was pretty awful Five People You Meet in Heaven level stuff to begin with.
posted by Artw at 12:38 PM on October 14, 2012


My only regret is that I will most likely not live long enough to see the day when these things confuse the living fuck out of future archeologists.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 12:39 PM on October 14, 2012 [16 favorites]


FWIW I thought the book The Lovely Bones was pretty awful Five People You Meet in Heaven level stuff to begin with.

The movie sure sounded awfully trite.
posted by adamdschneider at 1:03 PM on October 14, 2012


The movie sure sounded awfully trite.

It had its flaws, but was nonetheless emotionally powerful, and Jackson treated a tough subject well. There were some substantial differences from the novel, which may have made for a better film overall. Still, worth seeing, in my opinion.
posted by New England Cultist at 1:09 PM on October 14, 2012


Yeah no, they're not making The Lovely Bones coins.
posted by Brocktoon at 1:20 PM on October 14, 2012



Hmm my geekiness is a twitter it seems.

I want these!

Down geek sensibilities, down!
posted by Jalliah at 1:22 PM on October 14, 2012 [1 favorite]


This isn't fair until Bret and Jemaine get to be on the banknotes.
posted by dgaicun at 1:23 PM on October 14, 2012 [3 favorites]


This isn't fair until Bret and Jemaine get to be on the banknotes.

NO.
posted by New England Cultist at 1:23 PM on October 14, 2012


At first glance, I thought the Bilbo coin was giving me the finger.
posted by cosmic.osmo at 1:25 PM on October 14, 2012 [3 favorites]


Thorin sits down and starts singing about gold.
posted by panboi at 1:33 PM on October 14, 2012 [3 favorites]


Fifteen years ago, Martin Freeman was an obscure English actor who had appeared in small roles in a couple of episodes of TV shows. I wonder what kind of odds you could have gotten from bookies that fifteen years later he would be appearing on currency in New Zealand.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:35 PM on October 14, 2012 [8 favorites]


The US has had this type of thing forever.
posted by nushustu at 1:41 PM on October 14, 2012


> "The two biggest pop culture draws for Kansas were both stories of how people escaped the state."

That's ... a pretty unusual view of both stories. Both The Wizard of Oz and Superman are usually taken to be in part parables about how the best and most charitable values of rural Kansas benefit other places when they are exported to them.
posted by kyrademon at 1:43 PM on October 14, 2012 [4 favorites]


Superman was an immigrant to Kansas! It draws superbeings from around the universe!
posted by zippy at 2:24 PM on October 14, 2012


I hear George Lucas has a deal worked out with the Jamaican Mint when the Jar Jar biopic is out.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:25 PM on October 14, 2012 [1 favorite]


I think the WoO movie is defiantly a pro-Kansas story, or at least a pro-roots story, "There's no place like home there's no place like home". The books are a little bit more ambiguous about this. I can't recall all of it, been awhile, but iirc the opening descriptions of Kansas are pretty godawful bleak. As to Superman, yeah I totally buy the "being from Kansas makes my values better than being from the big city" idea
posted by edgeways at 2:26 PM on October 14, 2012


How people can muster up the hatred that I would reserve for, say, racism towards a nation they will never visit in their short sad lives is beyond me.

Kiwis aren't a separate race.

I don't that's what's being implied above. The meaning becomes clearer with another comma:
How people can muster up the hatred that I would reserve for, say, racism, towards a nation they will never visit in their short sad lives is beyond me.
i.e. how can people manage to work up so much hatred towards a country instead of something like say, racism.
posted by peacheater at 2:32 PM on October 14, 2012 [3 favorites]




It's subtler in the Wizard of Oz books than it is in the Superman stories, but there's definitely a running theme that the values and ideas that Dorothy brings with her to Oz from Kansas are valuable and important.
posted by kyrademon at 2:35 PM on October 14, 2012


Elizabeth II on the obverse? Seems like they've seldom even heard of the King!
posted by comealongpole at 2:42 PM on October 14, 2012


The US has had this type of thing forever.
posted by nushustu at 6:41 AM on October 15 [+] [!]


The big difference being that the Franklin Mint is a private company that doesn't issue legal tender.
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:03 PM on October 14, 2012 [1 favorite]


Did I miss something? Isn't Middle-earth basically devoid of currency?
posted by NortonDC at 3:14 PM on October 14, 2012


The big difference being that the Franklin Mint is a private company that doesn't issue legal tender.

You forgot the final word of that sentence: yet.
posted by maxwelton at 3:16 PM on October 14, 2012


The chart that proves just how much of a sausage fest Middle Earth is
I'm suspicious of the number given for dwarves. They're very hard to sex.
posted by Jehan at 3:21 PM on October 14, 2012 [1 favorite]


i.e. how can people manage to work up so much hatred towards a country instead of something like say, racism.

Seems to me like Shadax was conflating racism and nationalism. Hatred towards a country is nationalism.
posted by charlie don't surf at 3:46 PM on October 14, 2012


legal tender

Yes. Legally speaking, this is true. You can spend them in shops. But if you go and try to spend your $10 Freeman-as-Bilbo at the Burger King in Auckland, either a) they won't accept it, or b) you will have traded a few thousand dollars worth of gold for a Whopper.

They're commemorative collector's coins, of the sort you'd see being hocked on the shopping channel. The mint stamps "legal tender" on them so they seem like more than just really fucking expensive pog slammers.
posted by Sys Rq at 3:50 PM on October 14, 2012


I think there might be greater demand if they weren't gold and $3000 a pop. Precious.
posted by ersatz at 3:56 PM on October 14, 2012


But apparently they are modelled after the Arkenstone.
posted by ersatz at 3:57 PM on October 14, 2012


Did I miss something? Isn't Middle-earth basically devoid of currency?

Smaug's fault. Dragon's got to sleep on something.
posted by radwolf76 at 4:11 PM on October 14, 2012 [1 favorite]


I am on the edge of my seat, counting down to December 12. Howsoever, what my heart truly desires is not the Ring, nor this coin, but the entire Misty Mountain song (rather than just the trailer clip). So I can play it over and over and over again.

Signed (fully disclosing here),

Lifelong LOTR obsessive and Peter Jackson fan
posted by bearwife at 4:12 PM on October 14, 2012 [6 favorites]


Can't they make one with a Balrog appearing in the smoke of the Twin Towers? That would sell everywhere.
posted by drjimmy11 at 4:12 PM on October 14, 2012 [2 favorites]


And perhaps Saruman's face on the obverse?
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:21 PM on October 14, 2012


The chart that proves just how much of a sausage fest Middle Earth is


I am somewhat surprised to learn that 12 % of men are female.
 
posted by Herodios at 4:31 PM on October 14, 2012 [1 favorite]


elves is confusing
posted by The Whelk at 4:32 PM on October 14, 2012


I am somewhat surprised to learn that 12 % of men are female.

Does Tolkien ever refer to humans as anything other than "men" or "man"?
posted by yoink at 5:08 PM on October 14, 2012


First impressions:
The $10 Frodo is flipping the bird
posted by mattoxic at 6:16 PM on October 14, 2012


Does Tolkien ever refer to humans as anything other than "men" or "man"?

"The mens"?
posted by Artw at 6:20 PM on October 14, 2012


How many would I need to buy if I wanted to melt them down and make a ring?
posted by Alexander Hatchell at 6:34 PM on October 14, 2012


The idea that the word "men" can only ever refer to male humans is kind of a modern thing. (Yeah, yeah, Éowyn.)
posted by hattifattener at 6:34 PM on October 14, 2012 [1 favorite]


I love the Gandalf coin. It has an old queen on one side, and Elizabeth II on the reverse
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:40 PM on October 14, 2012 [17 favorites]



I'm excited, stop trying to bring me down.


It won't be as good. The Hobbit movie that is (the Hobbit movies, I should say -- last I heard, there are going to be three of them). Because The Hobbit just isn't the book that LOTR is. It's nice and all with some moments of genuine brilliance, but overall it just lacks the epic scope and stakes. I mean, one's a treasure hunt. The other is effectively the Apocalypse.

Like comparing pre-LSD Beatles to post. Both are great. One is greater.
posted by philip-random at 6:47 PM on October 14, 2012


It's a better book, IMHO. It doesn't need "fixing" to make it an extension of LotR..
posted by Artw at 6:50 PM on October 14, 2012 [1 favorite]


Because The Hobbit just isn't the book that LOTR is.

I would say the Hobbit is much better than LotR - it's a kick-ass, ripping yarn with none of the philosophical pretensions of the subsequent trilogy. I can't wait to see the movie.
posted by KokuRyu at 6:55 PM on October 14, 2012 [1 favorite]


Speaking of mythic figures in NZ currency, Sir Edmund Hillary is remembered on the NZ $5 note. (note: Ed gave credits to Norgay, group effort).
posted by ovvl at 7:00 PM on October 14, 2012


Since when does the quality of the book translate to the quality of the movie?

In truth the simpler books make better movies because otherwise you leave gobtonnes of stuff out, and that's even before people start thinking you need to add shit like romance to the story.
posted by edgeways at 7:07 PM on October 14, 2012 [2 favorites]


Wow, those are some really ugly coins.

Well-designed coins are slightly three-dimensional in their designs- take the Buffalo nickel for example. These look like shoddy JPEG-to-depth map jobs that could have been done in Photoshop.
posted by dunkadunc at 7:09 PM on October 14, 2012 [1 favorite]


Are we still talking about The Lovely Bones? No? Too bad, as it was an admittedly goofy story told through excellent direction and thoroughly stunning cinematography. Brian Eno did a masterful job on the soundtrack, as well, by remixing instrumental bits and pieces from his 70's works (including using a version of Third Uncle as it was apparently always meant to be used: in a fucking car chase) with newly-recorded stuff.

Come to think of it, maybe I just liked it for the music.
posted by item at 8:50 PM on October 14, 2012


I tried to watch it, found everything wonderful (cinematography, music, design, even the cast), but I didn't like the movie. It felt like the director just couldn't stop forcing cool things into it at the expense of story, tone etc ... which is also how I felt about King Kong (although that went sideways in other ways). It's like Jackson needs something as dense, as complicated, as overwhelming as LOTR to keep him focused ... which is one of the reasons I have my doubts about The Hobbit. I've got a bad feeling there's going to be an hour long extended chase (and whatever) with spiders in Mirkwood as they try to stretch things out to cover three movies.
posted by philip-random at 9:44 PM on October 14, 2012


The idea that the word "men" can only ever refer to male humans is kind of a modern thing.

As is the idea that there's any point in talking about the female humans at all.

Are we still talking about The Lovely Bones? No? Too bad, as it was an admittedly goofy story told through excellent direction...

I thought the climax was kind of hugely flawed. The sister investigates the killer (who is also targeting her), sneaks into his house, finds evidence of his crimes, is almost caught by the killer in his house, runs to her house to safety and with this incredibly important thing to say, and ... yay, mom and dad are back together? End story w/r/t family. I can understand denying closure because that's the Lovely Bones for ya, but even if that was the intent, I thought it was really badly done. (I haven't read the book.)
posted by fleacircus at 9:51 PM on October 14, 2012


I would much rather see official New Zealand coinage inspired by Peter Jackson's other masterpiece, Braindead, AKA Dead Alive.
posted by dunkadunc at 10:14 PM on October 14, 2012 [1 favorite]


brennen: "Kansas"

Hey man, you mess with prog rock you mess with me.
posted by boo_radley at 10:45 PM on October 14, 2012


~ holds a hand of dust up to the evening winds.
posted by boo_radley at 10:53 PM on October 14, 2012


Yes, the coins are ugly. But hobbits are awesome.
posted by Brocktoon at 11:32 PM on October 14, 2012


I'm suspicious of the number given for dwarves. They're very hard to sex.

You have to lift their beards up in order to see their genitals, but it's quite difficult to do because dwarves have axes they like to swing at people if you try to touch them.

No one sexes a dwarf.
posted by littlesq at 12:08 AM on October 15, 2012 [1 favorite]


As is the idea that there's any point in talking about the female humans at all.

Well, for what it's worth, it was very, very explicitly taught to me in school, in the 1970s, that 'mankind' and most plural forms of 'men' were gender-nonspecific, that you could neither infer nor imply what genders were in a given group through the use of a male nominative.

In other words, 'men' was the normal word for referring to a group of people, and you would rarely use 'women', typically only for a small group dominated by females, or when gender was important to the conversation somehow. Otherwise, 'men' and 'people' were largely interchangeable.

I make no claim that this is proper, or right, but that's what I was taught. And I kinda got the impression that this was already considered fairly liberal; I was young, but I believed my teachers didn't all quite agree on these rules, that some thought they went too far, and some thought they didn't go far enough.
posted by Malor at 12:21 AM on October 15, 2012


that filmdrunk/uproxx article in the third link is mean.

I'm a New Zealander, and I thought it was funny. But my sense of humour is bit broken this week.

As for The Hobbit, I was always keener on seeing Jackson make that than LOTR. Back when rumours about Peter Jackson taking on Tolkien first started spreading around my circle of friends in NZ (via people who knew people who knew him), it was The Hobbit they were talking about. I remember disappointment when we found out it was LOTR instead.
posted by lollusc at 5:40 AM on October 15, 2012


KokuRyu: "I would say the Hobbit is much better than LotR - it's a kick-ass, ripping yarn with none of the philosophical pretensions of the subsequent trilogy. I can't wait to see the movie."

The problem is he isn't making a movie, he's making THREE movies. I would have been excited to see a movie of The Hobbit. I'm not really excited to see an overly padded, LOTR-ized version.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:18 AM on October 15, 2012 [1 favorite]


I feel about the LOTR movies like I feel about the Star Wars prequels. I walked out of The Two Towers in a murderous rage.

I am sure Jackson will bring his special touch to this latest monstrosity. Perhaps the spiders of Mirkwood will poison the dwarves by farting on them, or there will be a hilarious sequence where Smaug bowls using the dwarves. To make it 'hip' and 'fresh', doncha know.

Also, LOTR is based in sagas. There wasn't gender equality in sagas. I'm all for gender equality, but it's ridiculous to be all j'accuse! about it.
posted by winna at 7:07 AM on October 15, 2012 [1 favorite]


The big difference being that the Franklin Mint is a private company that doesn't issue legal tender.

Hey! I was assured that my 9/11 coins were REAL money issued by the Bank of Liberia! Did you ForgetTM !?!?
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 7:11 AM on October 15, 2012 [1 favorite]


It's a better book, IMHO. It doesn't need "fixing" to make it an extension of LotR..

That was done long before Peter Jackson got hold of it.
posted by Fleebnork at 7:26 AM on October 15, 2012 [1 favorite]


Fleebnork: "That was done long before Peter Jackson got hold of it."

Those changes tied The Hobbit into the greater mythos (not entirely smoothly). But the tone of The Hobbit is totally different from that of The Lord of the Rings, or the Silmarillion. The Hobbit is a children's book. It's a charming one, and not without its more serious moments, but it is a very different beast from the rest of the Middle-earth stories.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:59 AM on October 15, 2012 [1 favorite]


Hey man, you mess with prog rock you mess with me.

So I'm eating at this place in Salina, KS, with family the other night, and we step out of the restaurant, and on the marquee of the theater across the street, with people queuing up to go in?

"KANSAS"

I guess it wouldn't have struck me as funny if people hadn't already been conflating states and bands at me all day.

Anyway, I don't know what I expect from the Hobbit movie. I thought that, though there were considerable flaws here and there, the LotR films were basically as good as they could have been, and vastly better than we had any real reason to expect they would be. They weren't fully realized in every dimension, there were some sort of cheapening choices made about character here and there, etc., but the casting was near to perfect and the people involved pulled off a series of minor miracles in terms of rendering a believable, worthy Middle Earth.

I almost don't feel like I'm owed a good Hobbit film.
posted by brennen at 8:32 AM on October 15, 2012 [5 favorites]


I feel about the LOTR movies like I feel about the Star Wars prequels. I walked out of The Two Towers in a murderous rage.

Really? What was so appalling? The insertion of the Aragorn "death"? That annoyed me but it hardly ruined the experience of a mostly brilliant adaptation for me. I also got annoyed in Return of the King when they inserted the bit about Frodo sending Sam home (totally unnecessary -- made a long movie even longer), but again, hardly a deal breaker.

Comparing Jackson's LOTR to the Star Wars prequels is like comparing the Beatles to the Monkees -- it just doesn't float. Not with me anyway.
posted by philip-random at 10:25 AM on October 15, 2012 [2 favorites]


I thought that, though there were considerable flaws here and there, the LotR films were basically as good as they could have been, and vastly better than we had any real reason to expect they would be.

I tend to agree. They were made by a director whose biggest and most ambitious project before then had been The Frighteners, which was gloriously so-so, and the cast was a hodge-podge of unknowns and obscure character actors (in late 2001, the fellowship was to me Sallah, the guy from Richard III, the villain from Goldeneye, and six other people) and the films were to be a product of the New Zealand film industry, which produced small, well-crafted things like Goodbye Pork Pie and Utu, not epics. The films are not perfect, but for every way they could have been better, there are a thousand ways they could have gone far worse.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 11:17 AM on October 15, 2012 [1 favorite]


Those changes tied The Hobbit into the greater mythos (not entirely smoothly). But the tone of The Hobbit is totally different from that of The Lord of the Rings, or the Silmarillion. The Hobbit is a children's book. It's a charming one, and not without its more serious moments, but it is a very different beast from the rest of the Middle-earth stories.

I am well aware of that. However, I don't really want to see a Hobbit film where the Elves are singing TRA LA LA LALLY DOWN IN THE VALLEY.

YMMV.
posted by Fleebnork at 12:19 PM on October 15, 2012


I imagine the RAGE occurred when Elves marched up to Helm's Deep. That bugged me too, but it didn't change my opinion that these are some of the greatest movies ever made, and certainly the greatest fantasy movies ever made. You did see Gollum, right?
posted by Brocktoon at 12:23 PM on October 15, 2012


I am well aware of that. However, I don't really want to see a Hobbit film where the Elves are singing TRA LA LA LALLY DOWN IN THE VALLEY.

Our desires diverge although Jackson's with you.
posted by ersatz at 3:58 PM on October 15, 2012


On gender equality - well I'm no scholar but I was pleasantly surprised to read somewhere that Anglo-Saxon 'man' does mean person, just as all those modern people who say 'mankind' is inclusive have been claiming. Woman, wyfman, a person who weaves, husbandman, a person who farms. Equal in law, apparently, and recorded in historical documents.

And I believe sagas have plenty of powerful, equally ruthless women in them, particularly the Icelandic dynastic ones?

I stand to be corrected by scholars on this but that's the impression my casual reading has led to.
posted by glasseyes at 6:22 PM on October 15, 2012


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