Mayweather - Pacquiao
February 20, 2015 5:06 PM   Subscribe

The most anticipated boxing match of the decade - rumored to involve a quarter-of-a-billion dollar deal - is finally set to happen, after a number of false starts. If you pay any attention to boxing, you already know who these two fighters are. But what if you don't? Perhaps a review of their nicknames is in order.

Early in his career, Mayweather recognized the value of the advice Gorgeous George gave to a young Cassius Clay: "You got your good looks, and you’ve got a good mouth on you. A lot of people will pay to see somebody shut your big mouth." Mayweather followed this advice to a tee, starting his career as Floyd "Pretty Boy" Mayweather. His superb defensive skills kept his face free of cuts for his first 45 professional fights, a remarkable streak ended only by an accidental headbutt in his 46th match, against Argentinian brawler Marcos "El Chino" Maidana.

Mayweather soon found nicknames with even more power to enrage fans (and to get them to pay to see his mouth shut): Floyd "Money" Mayweather spends his money ostentatiously. He brings Warren Buffett and Justin Bieber into his dressing room. He makes a lot of money, more than any other athlete in some recent years.

But there's no nickname more infuriating to boxing fans than Mayweather's latest: "TBE", short for "The Best Ever".

People have been paying more and more to see someone shut Floyd's mouth, but so far, no-one has managed the feat. If Mayweather wins this fight, he will be one victory away from matching Rocky Marciano's unblemished 49-0 professional record.

Manny Pacquiao, by contrast, has not carefully crafted his nicknames. They have been showered on him: "The Nation's Fist" and "The Fighting Pride of the Philippines" reflect his status as a Filipino national hero. Early on, he was dubbed "The Destroyer" for his domination of opponents in the ring, but Filipino boxing fans agreed that the nickname was overused and, besides, less "wholesome" than his more recent, simple, and enduring moniker: "Pac-Man".

In between, Pacquiao has been called "The Mexicutioner" and "The Mexican Killer" after a series of exciting victories over Mexican legends Barrera, Morales, and Marquez. Pacquiao didn't win all of his fights against these Mexican greats, but the fights were always exciting and established a new golden age of boxing.

If you dig into the morass of Youtube comments, you'll find, as expected, that gender and sexuality form the basis of slurs on both fighters. Mayweather's defensive skills - and the resulting lack of crowd-pleasing action in most of his fights - has earned him the predictable "Gayweather". And Mayweather himself dubbed Pacquiao "Miss Pac-Man" in reference to the devastating knockout Pacquiao suffered in his fourth fight against Juan Manuel Marquez.

Love boxing or hate it, you're likely to hear a lot more about these two fighters over the next couple of months. The hype machine needed to pay for that quarter-of-a-billion dollar deal is about to go into high gear.
posted by clawsoon (50 comments total) 13 users marked this as a favorite
 
Reports of $89.95 PPV price tag, $99.95 for HD. I usually loathe that sort of thing but this is what PPV was actually built for. Tecate tends to offer rebates in the $20 range, so keep your eye on that.
posted by holybagel at 5:10 PM on February 20, 2015 [2 favorites]


Wouldn't be complete without a Mayweather Highlight video.
posted by wuwei at 5:26 PM on February 20, 2015 [3 favorites]


Floyd Mayweather is a woman-beater. He beats women in front of his children. He has been convicted for this, repeatedly. He thinks the NFL overreacted in the Ray Rice situation.
posted by phaedon at 5:28 PM on February 20, 2015 [14 favorites]


It'll be interesting edeezy. 5 years ago I would totally agree, but seeing Miguel Cotto bully Floyd around, batter him up and body his face I think Manny might be able to win; well if anyone could follow Cotto's gameplay for 12 rounds and actually win, Manny could. I also wonder what Mayweather' punch resistance is like at 38. Shane Mosley had him on Queer Street, and Cotto gave him the aforementioned battering (for like 5 rounds til he ran out of gas).That said, I'd call it like Floyd -135 or -145.
posted by holybagel at 5:38 PM on February 20, 2015 [1 favorite]


To reiterate; If you had a moral objection to the Baltimore Ravens continuing to employ Ray Rice, you should also not watch this fight, especially because in contrast the NFL's complex web of revenue sources where TV audiences are only an indirect source of cash, boxing involves payment from the viewer going in a direct path (though with middlemen involved) to the boxer.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:50 PM on February 20, 2015 [5 favorites]


phaedon makes a fair point. When boxing fans want to insult Mayweather, they don't call him Floyd "Woman Beater" Mayweather. They call him "Gayweather". There's a problem there. How long would we have ignored Edwin Valero's violence at home, given what an amazing boxer he was, if he hadn't finally killed his wife?
posted by clawsoon at 5:58 PM on February 20, 2015


If history is anything to go by, "until he killed his wife" seems a pretty apt answer.
posted by DoctorFedora at 6:04 PM on February 20, 2015 [7 favorites]


Wow, I'm not a big boxing fan but this has me pretty hyped up now. Maybe if I tune in I'll become a fan like that one time where I randomly tuned into NASCAR and saw Montoya drive into a jet dryer and I've been watching ever since even though nobody else I know does. Which broadcast network will it be on? Or is it ESPN?
posted by Drinky Die at 6:05 PM on February 20, 2015


Joint Pay-Per-View coproduction by HBO and Showtime.
posted by holybagel at 6:07 PM on February 20, 2015


Oh, you want 75% of my (literally every channel) monthly cable bill for one program. Hey, sweet, Battlebots is back!
posted by Drinky Die at 6:08 PM on February 20, 2015 [2 favorites]


A big boxing match like this is pay per view, and it won't come cheap; as mentioned above the rumors are $90-$100.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 6:08 PM on February 20, 2015


Well, shit. I didn't know that about Mayweather. This casts a huge cloud over my initial excitement. I'm not sure I can watch it now.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 6:10 PM on February 20, 2015


It'll also likely be shown via closed circuit at theaters. Events these big usually are, with tickets around $20
posted by holybagel at 6:11 PM on February 20, 2015


Manny has been ducking this fight for years. I guess he thinks Mayweather's talents have finally eroded enough that he can make a fight of it. For all his toughness and energy Manny couldn't lay a glove on Mayweather in his prime. This could be interesting...
posted by jim in austin at 6:15 PM on February 20, 2015 [2 favorites]


That's interesting. I always heard it was the other way around, with Mayweather avoiding Pacquiao.
posted by cazoo at 6:25 PM on February 20, 2015 [5 favorites]


It always seemed to me like Mayweather was avoiding the fight, with his retirements (a la how Ray Leonard ducked Marvin Hagler at his peak) and low balling Pacquiao, insisting on specific glove brands, ring size, invasive drug testing, etc.
posted by holybagel at 6:29 PM on February 20, 2015 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I have the opposite read, too: When Pacquiao agreed to get over his fear of needles to do the intravenous drug testing, Mayweather just threw out some ridiculous revenue thing that Pacquiao could not accept in his right mind. Now that Pacquiao's lost a bunch of fights, he probably looks much more…vincible.
posted by ignignokt at 6:35 PM on February 20, 2015 [2 favorites]


That's interesting. I always heard it was the other way around, with Mayweather avoiding Pacquiao.

No matter who said what, when or where it's always been a waiting game. Manny waiting for Mayweather to deteriorate to the point where he is beatable. Floyd is getting close to 40. Quick and cute only lasts so long. But I'll still put my money on Mayweather. No big hitter has ever tagged Money...
posted by jim in austin at 6:41 PM on February 20, 2015 [1 favorite]


Maybe I'm giving him too much credit, but I think that Mayweather has been promoting this fight for the past five years with all the deals that fell through, the pickiness, the retirements. He's not afraid to be a heel, and putting off the Pacquiao fight until the chorus of "coward!" and "ducking!" became deafening were the perfect marketing lead-up to the biggest-money fight of both boxer's careers.

jim in austin, what would you think of Amir Khan's chances with Mayweather? He's the one current fighter who strikes me as having the reach and quickness to possibly score sufficient points on Mayweather to win. Neither fighter is a big puncher, but both are great at the "tag, you're it!" game.
posted by clawsoon at 6:50 PM on February 20, 2015 [1 favorite]


jim in austin: quick only lasts for so long but defensive skill holds on much longer. In fact, it's the only thing that does.
posted by wuwei at 7:08 PM on February 20, 2015


Boy, that's interesting. I'd love to see Khan vs Pacquiao. I can never get my head around Khan, he's crazy fast and he's got reach, but his punches don't look that powerful. Obviously, by the results, they are, they just look like they're fired from halfway out.
posted by lumpenprole at 7:10 PM on February 20, 2015


I was just having a conversation with my boyfriend about how this fight would never happen because Mayweather wants to retire unbeaten, and Pacquiao is too much of a question mark for him. I guess they got the money to make it worth his while.
posted by ChuraChura at 7:13 PM on February 20, 2015


jim in austin: quick only lasts for so long but defensive skill holds on much longer. In fact, it's the only thing that does.

For openers, you're talking to an ex-boxer here. Floyd's quickness is his defense. His reaction time is off the scale. He sees it and reacts before you can land it. If Floyd loses his quickness he essentially becomes defenseless. I think that is exactly what Manny has been waiting for...
posted by jim in austin at 7:19 PM on February 20, 2015


"Pakyaw" kind of means make, collect, buy; so "Money Pakyaw" is a punnish nickname. You can also get "Ninong" swag, alluding to another nickname.

I thought this fight would never happen.
posted by kurumi at 7:23 PM on February 20, 2015 [1 favorite]


jim in austin, what would you think of Amir Khan's chances with Mayweather? He's the one current fighter who strikes me as having the reach and quickness to possibly score sufficient points on Mayweather to win. Neither fighter is a big puncher, but both are great at the "tag, you're it!" game.

It would depend on the current status of Mayweather. When Floyd was in his prime, no contest. But today, who knows?
posted by jim in austin at 7:31 PM on February 20, 2015


I am not a boxing guy, and might never be, but this was a great post that made me want to get into it. Thanks!
posted by bicyclefish at 7:48 PM on February 20, 2015


2011 called and said this is 4 years too late. Both guys are over 35 and on the downswing of their careers at this point. I guess they got together and decided the time is finally right to cash that last big check.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:57 PM on February 20, 2015 [2 favorites]


For openers, you're talking to an ex-boxer here. Floyd's quickness is his defense. His reaction time is off the scale. He sees it and reacts before you can land it. If Floyd loses his quickness he essentially becomes defenseless. I think that is exactly what Manny has been waiting for...

I'm sorry, and I get that you are an ex boxer, but Floyd is a hell of a lot more than just quick. You are making it seem like he's Roy Jones in that he is heavily reliant on his athleticism for his defense. Floyd is fast, no question, and he has great reflexes, but he is not the only guy who has those attributes. What separates Floyd is his recognition, technique, and ability to adjust to what his opponent is doing. You saw that in his fights with Zap Judah and Sugar Shane Mosley, two other fast guys who even managed to stun Mayweather before he adjusted and went on to dominate the rest of the fight.

I would compare Mayweather to someone like Bernard Hopkins, who was able to use craft and technique to extend his career long after his athletic skills had declined. Only Floyd arguably has even better technique than Bernard did, which is saying something. I'm not saying Floyd is not athletic, but he is most definitely far more than that.

I'd actually say Pacquiao is at more of a disadvantage from age because his style was always far more reliant on athleticism. He started out essentially a one handed power puncher before Freddie Roach was able to mold him into a fairly good technical fighter. That did not come until much later in his career, though. Floyd has been boxing basically since he was in preschool..................
posted by eagles123 at 8:12 PM on February 20, 2015 [5 favorites]


jim in austin, you're not the only ex-fighter in this thread.

re: Mayweather and his defensive skills, you see similar movements (albeit not at his level) in other fighters that have come out of their camp. Roger, Floyd Sr. and Jeff have built a system that works.
posted by wuwei at 8:18 PM on February 20, 2015


I think you'll find this is the second richest fight in history.

The rematch will be the richest.
posted by fullerine at 8:33 PM on February 20, 2015 [2 favorites]


I won't be paying to see this. Hell, I quit the NFL this year for all their scandals I'll be damned if I'll pay money out of my direct pocket to support another abuser.

I used to have a casual interest in boxing, having grown up in the heyday of Ali. I never mentioned The Greatest in front of the biggest boxing fan I knew, my father-in-law. As a WWII veteran he could not understand Ali not wanting to serve and never got too far past that. Once I asked him what would happen in a tournament of the greatest heavyweights. He went back and forth for half an hour or so, plotting matches and who'd beat who. "And then we'd end up with Marciano in the championship bout...and that sonovabitch Ali would beat him in twelve." I just nodded along with his assessment.

So yeah, it'd be fun to see a good fight. I haven't watched the sport in a very long time. But no, not this one.
posted by Ber at 9:22 PM on February 20, 2015


I won't be paying to see this. Hell, I quit the NFL this year for all their scandals I'll be damned if I'll pay money out of my direct pocket to support another abuser.


You might need to be looking to boycott all contact sports in the future. It's simple to blame an individual for his actions, but there's been some studies done (that could be bullshit for all I know, I can't tell the difference between a good or bad study) that showed a link between brain damage and domestic abuse (plus depression and a ton of other issues). Even something a relatively contact light like soccer has been linked to brain injury. Now imagine getting punched in the head for a living.
posted by Qberting at 12:53 AM on February 21, 2015


I'll admit that I didn't appreciate Mayweather's ability until I watched him fight Marquez. If his opponent is making any mistakes, Marquez is a boxer with the ability to find them, exploit them, and tear them apart. But Mayweather just didn't make any mistakes. Nothing to exploit.
posted by clawsoon at 4:26 AM on February 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


You might need to be looking to boycott all contact sports in the future

Yeah, that's pretty much the plan.
posted by Ber at 5:49 AM on February 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


Boxing fans, 36 and 38 seems quite old for elite athletic performance . Would these guys lose against their younger selves?
posted by One Hand Slowclapping at 6:29 AM on February 21, 2015


Well, One Hand Slow Clapping, elite athletic performance can even come from the olds.

And yeah, I fought too, and honestly Floyd's defense isn't so much based on quickness or speed like a Mike Tyson (seriously, he had SICK defense when he was young, even though he was known for his offense). Floyd Mayweather is more like Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker Floyd's defense is based on pure boxing knowledge. He knows what's going to happen. It's uncanny. And he is a ridiculous counterpuncher. That said, it isn't his quickness, or speed that is going to fail him, its his timing. But, as Bernard Hopknis showed, timing can be the last thing to go. So who knows.
posted by holybagel at 7:25 AM on February 21, 2015


Pacquiao has been called "The Mexicutioner"

Best sporting nickname evar!
posted by billiebee at 7:27 AM on February 21, 2015


Mayweather doesn't willingly have action fights. He seems to prefer reaction fights...
posted by jim in austin at 7:45 AM on February 21, 2015


Thing is, jim in austin, Floyd's style is very reactive, but he didn't have a lot of fun against Zab Judah, a lefty with some pop. How does he deal with another lefty, with pop, who likes to keep a pace around 60 punches per round? If Floyd can keep Manny from throwing, he wins. If Manny can keep a 60-70 punch per round pace, he catches Floyd eventually, and that's where it gets interesting.
posted by holybagel at 7:54 AM on February 21, 2015


Mayweather is going to win by decision. I don't foresee a TKO.
posted by Renoroc at 8:31 AM on February 21, 2015


> Best sporting nickname evar!

Yeah, it's unlikely that I could derive as much enjoyment from this fight as I did from learning that Pacquiao's nickname is the "Mexecutioner."

That's definitely in the Sports Nickname Hall Of Fame, along with Toni "The Croatian Sensation" Kukoc, Robert "Tractor" Traylor, Dick "Night Train" Lane, Georges "The Chicoutimi Cucumber" Vezina, and Darryl "Chocolate Thunder" Dawkins.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:38 AM on February 21, 2015 [1 favorite]




Thing is, jim in austin, Floyd's style is very reactive, but he didn't have a lot of fun against Zab Judah, a lefty with some pop.

Zab with his speed, knockout power and southpaw stance enjoyed some early success. But then Mayweather started timing him and became much more aggressive than normal. Judah was pretty much in survival mode from the middle rounds onward. Not sure if any of this maps to Pacquiao or not. His big advantage has always been his work rate but that has been dropping steadily as he aged. And he's never been hard to hit either. My best guess is that if Manny doesn't get in some early significant damage or a KO, Floyd will start to time him and proceed to paint him like a barn for the rest of the fight...
posted by jim in austin at 9:50 AM on February 21, 2015


Or, as we saw in the Maidana fights, if all else fails Mayweather can always clinch, run, bop-him-on-the-head, clinch, run, bop-him-on-the-head.
posted by clawsoon at 10:21 AM on February 21, 2015


When boxing fans want to insult Mayweather, they don't call him Floyd "Woman Beater" Mayweather. They call him "Gayweather".

We must speak to different boxing fans, for what that's worth.
posted by Dark Messiah at 11:34 AM on February 21, 2015 [2 favorites]




From ignignokt's link: Manila’s crime rate plummets when Pacquiao fights.
posted by clawsoon at 5:48 PM on February 22, 2015


Does Manny have a chance in this fight? The odds are looking pretty decent right now for a punt.
posted by GreyboxHero at 9:36 AM on February 23, 2015


I'm pulling for Manny.
posted by jonmc at 10:10 AM on February 23, 2015


Does Manny have a chance in this fight?

Sure he has a chance. Every power+pressure fighter has a puncher's chance. Sneak one in and game over. Mayweather opened as a 3/1 favorite but that has eased a bit. Manny is being deprecated because he has been losing and not to the best of opposition. His work rate has slowed noticeably in recent years and it was the bunches-of-punches that made his casual defensive style workable. But Mayweather has deteriorated as well. He looked really old in that first Maidana fight but, to his credit, he came back strong in the rematch. The burning question is who has the most left in the tank. Vegas currently thinks Floyd...
posted by jim in austin at 10:11 AM on February 23, 2015 [2 favorites]


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