File under: creepy
June 24, 2015 3:15 PM Subscribe
In the weeks after the Broaddus family purchased their dream home in Westfield, New Jersey they began to receive mysterious, threatening correspondences from a stranger calling themself "The Watcher". The stranger claims a special connection to the house, which has "been the subject of [their] family for decades." The letters went on to claim of a secret buried within the walls of the house, and that a "second coming" was imminent given an infusion of "young blood". The letters also claim that the sender was familiar with the previous owners of the home, and after some digging, the Broaddus family believes that to be true. They are now suing the former inhabitants for withholding this information during the sale of the house.
The folks over at /r/creepy contribute an item of dubious usefulness: another spoopy tale from Westfield!
Westfield is, coincidentally, also the setting of the strange case of John List.
Most news agencies are reiterating the same information from the CBS local and Gawker pieces above, but Courthouse News has an interesting legal perspective on the story.
The folks over at /r/creepy contribute an item of dubious usefulness: another spoopy tale from Westfield!
Westfield is, coincidentally, also the setting of the strange case of John List.
Most news agencies are reiterating the same information from the CBS local and Gawker pieces above, but Courthouse News has an interesting legal perspective on the story.
This seems like an elaborate attempt to snag a horror franchise.
posted by mmmbacon at 3:21 PM on June 24, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by mmmbacon at 3:21 PM on June 24, 2015 [14 favorites]
"don't read the comments" rule holds for the CBS piece
posted by thelonius at 3:25 PM on June 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 3:25 PM on June 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
It seems like it would be not-that-hard to figure out who this person is? Hire a detective. Cheaper than buying a new house. It's either teenagers or a genuine off-the-wall sort. If the letters are getting there by post office, that tells you something, and if they're just being dropped in the mailbox or front porch or what have you, get a surveillance camera.
It has a weird fakey feel to it though. It does not say the stalker actually knew the family's names, or that they had made any attempt to find out who it was. It mentions the stalker saying they were spying on the family, but surely they were closing their windows and so on.
I am giving this story the raised-eyebrow side-eye for now.
posted by emjaybee at 3:26 PM on June 24, 2015 [21 favorites]
It has a weird fakey feel to it though. It does not say the stalker actually knew the family's names, or that they had made any attempt to find out who it was. It mentions the stalker saying they were spying on the family, but surely they were closing their windows and so on.
I am giving this story the raised-eyebrow side-eye for now.
posted by emjaybee at 3:26 PM on June 24, 2015 [21 favorites]
This seems like an elaborate attempt to snag a horror franchise.
Man, if that's the case I still hope someone goes to jail for this. Once someone gets scared out of their home it's some kind of personal terrorism, and wasting the time of the police to investigate fake threats is a horrible waste of public resources.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:26 PM on June 24, 2015 [8 favorites]
Man, if that's the case I still hope someone goes to jail for this. Once someone gets scared out of their home it's some kind of personal terrorism, and wasting the time of the police to investigate fake threats is a horrible waste of public resources.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:26 PM on June 24, 2015 [8 favorites]
Harassment is no joke but jeez louise The Watcher's cornball B-movie villain dialogue is lame.
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:31 PM on June 24, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:31 PM on June 24, 2015 [7 favorites]
Yeah, this feels of some late teen twenty-something trolling the new neighbors in pursuit of lols/art.
Or it has something to do with the new Paranormal Activity movie whose trailer just came out.
Either way, smacks of tryhard.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 3:32 PM on June 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
Or it has something to do with the new Paranormal Activity movie whose trailer just came out.
Either way, smacks of tryhard.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 3:32 PM on June 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
The mayor said under New Jersey law, the letters are classified as a disorderly person’s crime.
I'm disorderly person myself, so I think I should state that I have never been to Westfield.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:32 PM on June 24, 2015 [17 favorites]
I'm disorderly person myself, so I think I should state that I have never been to Westfield.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:32 PM on June 24, 2015 [17 favorites]
See also Stambovsky v. Ackley.
posted by overeducated_alligator at 3:33 PM on June 24, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by overeducated_alligator at 3:33 PM on June 24, 2015 [4 favorites]
From the Courthouse News link: The plaintiffs seek damages for fraud and breach of contract, claiming that they "are entitled to a refund of the entire purchase price [of the home] with interest, while also being entitled to retain fee title to the home."
What does "retain fee title" mean here? They would give the house back, right?
posted by Roger Dodger at 3:35 PM on June 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
What does "retain fee title" mean here? They would give the house back, right?
posted by Roger Dodger at 3:35 PM on June 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
There's probably not actually a horrific secret buried in the walls, but I feel like they should at least sledge hammer their way through a few of them to double check?
posted by the turtle's teeth at 3:37 PM on June 24, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by the turtle's teeth at 3:37 PM on June 24, 2015 [11 favorites]
> It seems like it would be not-that-hard to figure out who this person is? Hire a detective.
Actually, there is a group of people in a well-organized country who have much more abilities than a private detective called "the police". Most of the tools that would be helpful in tracking down anonymous letters, like fingerprints, are only available to them.
Unfortunately, the police in New Jersey have other priorities.
A couple of years ago, my friend completed jumping through all the hoops he had to jump through because police found an old half joint on the floor of his car in a random search in front of a concert in New Jersey (and he's an older white guy like me, and very polite to cops, I can't imagine what it's like for young people of color!)
It cost him countless hours, many thousands of dollars, and lots of jumping through hoops and calling people, "It says on this other form I have to do this, but on your form it says I have to do that." At any point, he had the possibility of falling back and having to spend longer on probation, perhaps even going to jail. For half a j and no criminal record.
The police get points (points that officially don't exist but...) for catching criminals and punishing them. They get no points for preventing crime. Those threatening letters probably wouldn't even get a conviction, perhaps an involuntary (because the writer sounds like he's crazy) - no points at all for saving a family!
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 3:37 PM on June 24, 2015 [30 favorites]
Actually, there is a group of people in a well-organized country who have much more abilities than a private detective called "the police". Most of the tools that would be helpful in tracking down anonymous letters, like fingerprints, are only available to them.
Unfortunately, the police in New Jersey have other priorities.
A couple of years ago, my friend completed jumping through all the hoops he had to jump through because police found an old half joint on the floor of his car in a random search in front of a concert in New Jersey (and he's an older white guy like me, and very polite to cops, I can't imagine what it's like for young people of color!)
It cost him countless hours, many thousands of dollars, and lots of jumping through hoops and calling people, "It says on this other form I have to do this, but on your form it says I have to do that." At any point, he had the possibility of falling back and having to spend longer on probation, perhaps even going to jail. For half a j and no criminal record.
The police get points (points that officially don't exist but...) for catching criminals and punishing them. They get no points for preventing crime. Those threatening letters probably wouldn't even get a conviction, perhaps an involuntary (because the writer sounds like he's crazy) - no points at all for saving a family!
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 3:37 PM on June 24, 2015 [30 favorites]
> wasting the time of the police to investigate fake threats
These aren't "fake threats". A threat is a threat, even if you don't go through with it.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 3:38 PM on June 24, 2015 [20 favorites]
These aren't "fake threats". A threat is a threat, even if you don't go through with it.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 3:38 PM on June 24, 2015 [20 favorites]
Do I have this right that there was a single letter pre-sale and 3 letters post-sale and all has been quiet since?
It will be interesting to see whether a jury determines (or a court, as a matter of law, determines) that single letter would have to be disclosed. Not sure one random crazy thing creates a duty to disclose.
posted by janey47 at 3:41 PM on June 24, 2015 [7 favorites]
It will be interesting to see whether a jury determines (or a court, as a matter of law, determines) that single letter would have to be disclosed. Not sure one random crazy thing creates a duty to disclose.
posted by janey47 at 3:41 PM on June 24, 2015 [7 favorites]
These aren't "fake threats". A threat is a threat, even if you don't go through with it.
Ah. I was unclear. They are "fake threats" if the family is deliberately staging something and writing the letters themselves. I don't think that this is the case, but my reading of the notion that this could be part of setting up a horror franchise would be that the family / some studio is pulling off a big ol' stunt. Outlandishly unlikely, yes, but that's where my brain went.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:42 PM on June 24, 2015 [4 favorites]
Ah. I was unclear. They are "fake threats" if the family is deliberately staging something and writing the letters themselves. I don't think that this is the case, but my reading of the notion that this could be part of setting up a horror franchise would be that the family / some studio is pulling off a big ol' stunt. Outlandishly unlikely, yes, but that's where my brain went.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:42 PM on June 24, 2015 [4 favorites]
What does "retain fee title" mean here? They would give the house back, right?
"Retain fee title" means just that - they want the purchase price of the house as damages, but they also want to keep the house.
posted by fifthrider at 3:44 PM on June 24, 2015
"Retain fee title" means just that - they want the purchase price of the house as damages, but they also want to keep the house.
posted by fifthrider at 3:44 PM on June 24, 2015
Do I have this right that there was a single letter pre-sale and 3 letters post-sale and all has been quiet since?
Well, the third one was apparently just last week, so. And one letter that they know about pre-sale, reading between the lines it seems like they're suspecting there may have been more?
posted by dorque at 3:47 PM on June 24, 2015
Well, the third one was apparently just last week, so. And one letter that they know about pre-sale, reading between the lines it seems like they're suspecting there may have been more?
posted by dorque at 3:47 PM on June 24, 2015
I'm curious why the escrow and title insurance company are named in the suit (other than deep pockets) -- I don't see how either of them could have been expected to know that the sellers got a creepy letter which they didn't mention.
posted by jeather at 3:47 PM on June 24, 2015
posted by jeather at 3:47 PM on June 24, 2015
I don't see anything in the complaint that says that they want to "retain fee title." I see that they are requesting rescission of the sale contract and an "unwinding of the closing" along with a refund of the purchase price with interest and treble damages. I think the Courthouse News folks got overeager.
posted by janey47 at 3:48 PM on June 24, 2015
posted by janey47 at 3:48 PM on June 24, 2015
jeather, it's because the title company insures clear title and the Watcher has claimed an ownership interest. The title company is the agent of the escrow company, so that means that the escrow company has to be named in case the title company says it's not their fault, they were acting on orders.
posted by janey47 at 3:49 PM on June 24, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by janey47 at 3:49 PM on June 24, 2015 [6 favorites]
What a strange story. I worked in Westfield for a few years in college. It was a nice place. Very quaint.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:49 PM on June 24, 2015
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:49 PM on June 24, 2015
The fee title thing is at the end of the first count in the filing.
posted by dorque at 3:49 PM on June 24, 2015
posted by dorque at 3:49 PM on June 24, 2015
Dorque, the last letter they cite was dated July 2014. The sale closed in early June of last year, and the statute of limitations is probably about a year, because they filed in early June of this year. No mention of any letters in 2015.
posted by janey47 at 3:50 PM on June 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by janey47 at 3:50 PM on June 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ahaha, whoops. Back to reading comprehension school for me.
posted by dorque at 3:51 PM on June 24, 2015
posted by dorque at 3:51 PM on June 24, 2015
yeah, lupus, after the way this year's gone re: news about police, I'm less likely to tell people to call them than I used to be. And if it is a prankster/mentally unwell person, they are not likely to be masterful psy-ops/spy types that can't be found out. But like I said, no mention made of any attempts to do that, which is weird. I'd be pissed off if someone was trying to scare me out of my house. But maybe there's a lot more that we haven't heard.
Or maybe it's some kind of real estate scam?
posted by emjaybee at 3:52 PM on June 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
Or maybe it's some kind of real estate scam?
posted by emjaybee at 3:52 PM on June 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
Dorque, I see now where you're pointing. Notice, though, that they're just throwing it out there and don't appear to think they're going to get it
posted by janey47 at 3:52 PM on June 24, 2015
posted by janey47 at 3:52 PM on June 24, 2015
I bought a house, moved in and immediately someone started vandalizing my car in the middle of the night, just throwing stuff at it. First it was eggs, then it was a sack of flour, and then it was -- I kid you not -- bottles of milk.
I called the previous owner.
"Sam, did you have any enemies or neighborhood feuds?"
"No, why?"
"Because someone either hates me, hates you or has a really bad cake recipe."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 3:55 PM on June 24, 2015 [64 favorites]
I called the previous owner.
"Sam, did you have any enemies or neighborhood feuds?"
"No, why?"
"Because someone either hates me, hates you or has a really bad cake recipe."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 3:55 PM on June 24, 2015 [64 favorites]
There might be details withheld from the media for trial and or investigative reasons.
posted by Jacen at 3:56 PM on June 24, 2015
posted by Jacen at 3:56 PM on June 24, 2015
The letters were all received and then reported to the police a year ago. That's a helluva long con for a PR stunt. Bad taste prank seems like the likely explanation.
posted by kagredon at 3:57 PM on June 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by kagredon at 3:57 PM on June 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
657 Boulevard, not sane, stood by itself against its hills, holding darkness within; it had stood for eighty years and might stand for eighty more. Within, walls continued upright, bricks met neatly, floors were firm, and doors were sensibly shut; silence lay steadily against the wood and stone of 657 Boulevard, and whatever watched there, watched alone.
posted by nicebookrack at 3:59 PM on June 24, 2015 [23 favorites]
posted by nicebookrack at 3:59 PM on June 24, 2015 [23 favorites]
He just wants to vash and vipe the vindows...
No wait that's another story
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 3:59 PM on June 24, 2015 [40 favorites]
No wait that's another story
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 3:59 PM on June 24, 2015 [40 favorites]
Joe in Australia: "The mayor said under New Jersey law, the letters are classified as a disorderly person’s crime.
I'm disorderly person myself, so I think I should state that I have never been to Westfield."
Wait. It's... The Fat Boys???
posted by symbioid at 4:02 PM on June 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm disorderly person myself, so I think I should state that I have never been to Westfield."
Wait. It's... The Fat Boys???
posted by symbioid at 4:02 PM on June 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
Homer: Mr. Pote, Homer Simpson here. When you sold me this house, you forgot to mention one little thing. You didn't tell me it was built on an Indian burial ground!
[pause]
Homer: NO, YOU DIDN'T!
[pause]
Homer: Well, that's not my recollection.
[pause]
Homer: Uh-huh... okay, well all right. Good-bye.
[hangs up the phone and turns to Marge]
Homer: He says he mentioned it five or six times.
posted by TwoWordReview at 4:03 PM on June 24, 2015 [28 favorites]
[pause]
Homer: NO, YOU DIDN'T!
[pause]
Homer: Well, that's not my recollection.
[pause]
Homer: Uh-huh... okay, well all right. Good-bye.
[hangs up the phone and turns to Marge]
Homer: He says he mentioned it five or six times.
posted by TwoWordReview at 4:03 PM on June 24, 2015 [28 favorites]
the uncomplicated soups of my childhood: "He just wants to vash and vipe the vindows...
No wait that's another story"
THE VIPER!
posted by symbioid at 4:03 PM on June 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
No wait that's another story"
THE VIPER!
posted by symbioid at 4:03 PM on June 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
(Given that was season 2, 24 years is probably a record for length of time applicable to a "Simpson's did it" storyline)
posted by TwoWordReview at 4:04 PM on June 24, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by TwoWordReview at 4:04 PM on June 24, 2015 [7 favorites]
Oh this reminds me a lot of Elly Kedward vs Artisan Entertainment & Haxan Films. Apparently the film-makers came onto her property and kicked over a bunch of her shit? Their countersuit said that she had taken "illegal possession" but doesn't say of what. I think it's still going through the Maryland courts. There's a documentary about it, pretty interesting.
posted by turbid dahlia at 4:06 PM on June 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by turbid dahlia at 4:06 PM on June 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
"Retain fee title" means just that - they want the purchase price of the house as damages, but they also want to keep the house.
Hmm. Even money says the new owners are behind this.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 4:07 PM on June 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
Hmm. Even money says the new owners are behind this.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 4:07 PM on June 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
Odd that there's a 2011 article dealing with this specific bizarre legal issue, but: Exploring a New Jersey Seller’s Duty to Disclose the House You’re Buying Is Haunted.
"New Jersey case law is silent on the issue of disclosing stigmatized property... While the law is uncertain as to whether a seller needs to disclose stigmatized property, what is clear is that sellers may not make misrepresentations. If you ask the questions, you are legally entitled to truthful answers. Remember this before you unwittingly purchase a stigmatized property."
Haunted house sales have come up before: Stigmatized Property: Haunted Sales
posted by naju at 4:10 PM on June 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
"New Jersey case law is silent on the issue of disclosing stigmatized property... While the law is uncertain as to whether a seller needs to disclose stigmatized property, what is clear is that sellers may not make misrepresentations. If you ask the questions, you are legally entitled to truthful answers. Remember this before you unwittingly purchase a stigmatized property."
Haunted house sales have come up before: Stigmatized Property: Haunted Sales
posted by naju at 4:10 PM on June 24, 2015 [3 favorites]
it's the most generous of three possible damages packages outlined in the lawsuit. I think it's just the standard civil suit thing of asking for more than you expect to get. Given that the owners have been letting the house sit unused for a year, that there were only a total of 4 letters and they stopped nearly a year ago, and that, as janey47 points out, there's no guarantee that a court would decide for them, if this is a scam than they seem to have picked a very tricky one.
posted by kagredon at 4:12 PM on June 24, 2015
posted by kagredon at 4:12 PM on June 24, 2015
A Reddit investigation has identified Bruce as a prime suspect. Letters match up to holes in his tour schedule.
posted by humanfont at 4:15 PM on June 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 4:15 PM on June 24, 2015 [5 favorites]
This sounds like the kind of "mystery" that could probably be solved by three teenagers and a Great Dane.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 4:16 PM on June 24, 2015 [38 favorites]
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 4:16 PM on June 24, 2015 [38 favorites]
Anyone who's ever seen The Amityville Horror should know that a quaint-looking Dutch Colonial with that lonely, creepy attic window has got some secrets to hide.
posted by mudpuppie at 4:18 PM on June 24, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by mudpuppie at 4:18 PM on June 24, 2015 [4 favorites]
(Given that was season 2, 24 years is probably a record for length of time applicable to a "Simpson's did it" storyline)
So far...
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:22 PM on June 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
So far...
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:22 PM on June 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
Uatu
posted by ACair at 4:25 PM on June 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by ACair at 4:25 PM on June 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
The letters went on to claim of a secret buried within the walls of the house
Hmm, I wonder if the original owners of the house were Isaac and Serenna Izard?
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:25 PM on June 24, 2015 [12 favorites]
Hmm, I wonder if the original owners of the house were Isaac and Serenna Izard?
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:25 PM on June 24, 2015 [12 favorites]
Ghost Uatu or Nick Fury Sr. on the moon are both equally bad prospects.
posted by nicebookrack at 4:40 PM on June 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by nicebookrack at 4:40 PM on June 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
This sounds like the kind of "mystery" that could probably be solved by three teenagers and a Great Dane.
So the watcher killed Velma?
posted by Calloused_Foot at 4:55 PM on June 24, 2015 [9 favorites]
So the watcher killed Velma?
posted by Calloused_Foot at 4:55 PM on June 24, 2015 [9 favorites]
Yeah, the buyers have never moved in, because of the letters, they can't sell because of the letters, and the sellers didn't say anything about the letters they got because they knew nobody would buy it. I, for one, hope the buyers prevail, as that seems like obvious concealment of relevant data.
And yes, asking for damages plus fee title is standard opening negotiations, when I was going to sue the previous owners of a house I bought that was a misrepresented property, that was a thing my attorney put in the paperwork. (We didn't sue, in the end because the previous owner died and recovering from the estate wasn't likely enough to make the legal fees worth the effort.). We did, however put a realtor and an inspector out of business by having their licenses revoked for fraud. That was totally worth the legal fees to me.
Point being, this looks like fraud to me, and I too would refuse to move in with a kid, and I too would lawyer up and sue for all the things. Fuck those fraudster sellers right in their ghost hole.
posted by dejah420 at 5:07 PM on June 24, 2015 [24 favorites]
And yes, asking for damages plus fee title is standard opening negotiations, when I was going to sue the previous owners of a house I bought that was a misrepresented property, that was a thing my attorney put in the paperwork. (We didn't sue, in the end because the previous owner died and recovering from the estate wasn't likely enough to make the legal fees worth the effort.). We did, however put a realtor and an inspector out of business by having their licenses revoked for fraud. That was totally worth the legal fees to me.
Point being, this looks like fraud to me, and I too would refuse to move in with a kid, and I too would lawyer up and sue for all the things. Fuck those fraudster sellers right in their ghost hole.
posted by dejah420 at 5:07 PM on June 24, 2015 [24 favorites]
Or maybe it's some kind of real estate scam?
Hmm. Even money says the new owners are behind this.
ding ding ding!
posted by junco at 5:09 PM on June 24, 2015
Hmm. Even money says the new owners are behind this.
ding ding ding!
posted by junco at 5:09 PM on June 24, 2015
So the watcher killed Velma?
No, but let's be honest- Shaggy really ain't solving shit.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 5:15 PM on June 24, 2015 [22 favorites]
No, but let's be honest- Shaggy really ain't solving shit.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 5:15 PM on June 24, 2015 [22 favorites]
I love stories like this because I think the failure to disclose the letters falls within the rights of the seller.
The title being claimed by the anonymous letter writer is nonspecific and clearly ludicrous. Sending anonymous letters asserting supernatural claims alongside a claim to own a house does not present a colorable ownership interest. If a court were to uphold the seller's duty to disclose this, it would mean virtually any house sale could be torpedoed by a malicious prankster or someone with a grudge against the seller, who is willing to write and send three crazy letters.
No way will a court rule that the sellers had to disclose this.
posted by jayder at 5:22 PM on June 24, 2015 [7 favorites]
The title being claimed by the anonymous letter writer is nonspecific and clearly ludicrous. Sending anonymous letters asserting supernatural claims alongside a claim to own a house does not present a colorable ownership interest. If a court were to uphold the seller's duty to disclose this, it would mean virtually any house sale could be torpedoed by a malicious prankster or someone with a grudge against the seller, who is willing to write and send three crazy letters.
No way will a court rule that the sellers had to disclose this.
posted by jayder at 5:22 PM on June 24, 2015 [7 favorites]
I love stories like this because I think the failure to disclose the letters falls within the rights of the seller.
I meant to add "I love stories like this because I think the failure to disclose the letters falls within the rights of the seller, despite facts that powerfully evoke sympathy for the buyer."
posted by jayder at 5:25 PM on June 24, 2015 [4 favorites]
I meant to add "I love stories like this because I think the failure to disclose the letters falls within the rights of the seller, despite facts that powerfully evoke sympathy for the buyer."
posted by jayder at 5:25 PM on June 24, 2015 [4 favorites]
jeather, it's because the title company insures clear title and the Watcher has claimed an ownership interest.
Ha! I worked in title research for a few years and I love the idea that this would have been something we should have turned up. It's not like there's some big Ghost Lien Database where you can look this up, or like everybody notes the location of local ghosts when they plat a neighborhood. I spent most of my time looking up construction liens, probate cases, and divorce judgments - although truthfully I would much rather have spent most of that time investigating ghost claims.
posted by dialetheia at 5:26 PM on June 24, 2015 [28 favorites]
Ha! I worked in title research for a few years and I love the idea that this would have been something we should have turned up. It's not like there's some big Ghost Lien Database where you can look this up, or like everybody notes the location of local ghosts when they plat a neighborhood. I spent most of my time looking up construction liens, probate cases, and divorce judgments - although truthfully I would much rather have spent most of that time investigating ghost claims.
posted by dialetheia at 5:26 PM on June 24, 2015 [28 favorites]
There's no Ghost Lien Database, but they could at least have consulted Tobin's Spirit Guide under "W".
Jayder, The Watcher's claim of ownership is clearly ludicrous in a legal sense, but isn't the more relevant issue the fact that a nutcase (apparently) said things implying violence against whoever owned the house? It would substantially affect most people's enjoyment of their house to be in that situation, and it isn't like you can just say "Well, should have inspected better."
posted by No-sword at 5:39 PM on June 24, 2015 [9 favorites]
Jayder, The Watcher's claim of ownership is clearly ludicrous in a legal sense, but isn't the more relevant issue the fact that a nutcase (apparently) said things implying violence against whoever owned the house? It would substantially affect most people's enjoyment of their house to be in that situation, and it isn't like you can just say "Well, should have inspected better."
posted by No-sword at 5:39 PM on June 24, 2015 [9 favorites]
IANAL, but apparently in some states sellers do have to disclose "reports of paranormal activity"
posted by mmmbacon at 5:41 PM on June 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by mmmbacon at 5:41 PM on June 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ghost Lien Database
although truthfully I would much rather have spent most of that time investigating ghost claims.
I would watch a TV show based on this premise so hard
posted by naju at 5:44 PM on June 24, 2015 [20 favorites]
although truthfully I would much rather have spent most of that time investigating ghost claims.
I would watch a TV show based on this premise so hard
posted by naju at 5:44 PM on June 24, 2015 [20 favorites]
Spoopy is my new favourite word.
posted by blue_beetle at 5:55 PM on June 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by blue_beetle at 5:55 PM on June 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
Jayder, The Watcher's claim of ownership is clearly ludicrous in a legal sense, but isn't the more relevant issue the fact that a nutcase (apparently) said things implying violence against whoever owned the house? It would substantially affect most people's enjoyment of their house to be in that situation, and it isn't like you can just say "Well, should have inspected better."
posted by No-sword at 5:39 PM on June 24 [+] [!]
I think yeah, that's probably a more relevant issue, except I didn't see anything that was actually a threat. I mean, writing a letter saying that the new owners have brought the house some wonderful children's blood is ... not a threat, really, because houses can't drink blood. Yes, it's creepy, and it gets, I think, to what is actually the most relevant issue, which is the idea that there is some crazy person who is thinking awfully hard about this one house, and do you want to live in a house that some crazy person is spending all his or her time obsessing over?
But I do NOT think that "there is possibly a crazy person who spends 100% of his waking hours thinking about this house, and has unknown propensities to violence" is a factor that sellers would be required to disclose. I say possibly because this could just as likely be a malicious prankster. Placing a legal burden on the sellers to disclose this just creates way too much potential for abuse, in the form of fake letters by perfectly sane people who have a motive to block a sale.
posted by jayder at 6:11 PM on June 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by No-sword at 5:39 PM on June 24 [+] [!]
I think yeah, that's probably a more relevant issue, except I didn't see anything that was actually a threat. I mean, writing a letter saying that the new owners have brought the house some wonderful children's blood is ... not a threat, really, because houses can't drink blood. Yes, it's creepy, and it gets, I think, to what is actually the most relevant issue, which is the idea that there is some crazy person who is thinking awfully hard about this one house, and do you want to live in a house that some crazy person is spending all his or her time obsessing over?
But I do NOT think that "there is possibly a crazy person who spends 100% of his waking hours thinking about this house, and has unknown propensities to violence" is a factor that sellers would be required to disclose. I say possibly because this could just as likely be a malicious prankster. Placing a legal burden on the sellers to disclose this just creates way too much potential for abuse, in the form of fake letters by perfectly sane people who have a motive to block a sale.
posted by jayder at 6:11 PM on June 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
So the watcher killed Velma?
No, but let's be honest- Shaggy really ain't solving shit.
Shaggy is 35.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:41 PM on June 24, 2015
No, but let's be honest- Shaggy really ain't solving shit.
Shaggy is 35.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:41 PM on June 24, 2015
So what's in the walls?
posted by gucci mane at 6:53 PM on June 24, 2015
posted by gucci mane at 6:53 PM on June 24, 2015
Just another brick.
posted by clavdivs at 7:07 PM on June 24, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by clavdivs at 7:07 PM on June 24, 2015 [13 favorites]
Westfield is also the home of Charles Addams who based some of his cartoons on things Westfieldian.
posted by julen at 7:26 PM on June 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by julen at 7:26 PM on June 24, 2015 [2 favorites]
He took a sledgehammer to the wall in the nursery. After two swings, he could see something in the interstitial space. He reached in and pulled it out. It was a small teddy bear. He smiled. It was so cute! It seemed oddly warm to the touch. He held up to his ear and heard something...very faint. It sounded like a muffled heartbeat. Then he felt little claws grabbing his ear...
posted by double block and bleed at 7:36 PM on June 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by double block and bleed at 7:36 PM on June 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
♪ When there's something strange in your neighbourhood
♬Who ya gonna call?
posted by adept256 at 7:49 PM on June 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
♬Who ya gonna call?
posted by adept256 at 7:49 PM on June 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm calling balloon boy right now. This is totally bullshit. Either it's semi-bullshit like the neighbor theory above, or they're making it up to some degree if not entirely.
I might be willing to believe something vaguely like this is going on, but all the details are, as was mentioned above, tryhard bullshit. And i say this as someone whose been stalked, doxxed, and harassed like this on several occasions.
posted by emptythought at 8:24 PM on June 24, 2015 [4 favorites]
I might be willing to believe something vaguely like this is going on, but all the details are, as was mentioned above, tryhard bullshit. And i say this as someone whose been stalked, doxxed, and harassed like this on several occasions.
posted by emptythought at 8:24 PM on June 24, 2015 [4 favorites]
Dick Laurent is dead.
posted by shakespeherian at 8:28 PM on June 24, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by shakespeherian at 8:28 PM on June 24, 2015 [6 favorites]
Oh thank god people are jumping in to tell us rubes it might be fake.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 9:38 PM on June 24, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 9:38 PM on June 24, 2015 [11 favorites]
Yeah, the claim against the title insurance company is frivolous: (simplified) a title insurance policy is a contract of indemnity against losses occurring due to defects in title of record. The letters were not of record; moreover, it's very iffy that the letters made any valid "claim of ownership" at all. Frankly, even if the letter were recorded, the title company is still not liable under the policy, There has been no loss. (Nor will there be.) Of you're thinking they can't sell the house, even accepting the allegations as true, that inability is not due to a defect of title. Chicago should be dismissed on failure to state a claim.
As for the rest of it, depending on the devil im the details, I'd be surprised if the case made it to a jury.
posted by JKevinKing at 10:04 PM on June 24, 2015
As for the rest of it, depending on the devil im the details, I'd be surprised if the case made it to a jury.
posted by JKevinKing at 10:04 PM on June 24, 2015
What if it's a long con and they are sending the letters themselves. Free house.
posted by bradbane at 10:04 PM on June 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by bradbane at 10:04 PM on June 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
No, but let's be honest- Shaggy really ain't solving shit.
True, Shaggy's probably just smoking shit. Hmmm, now that I think about it, in the porno Scooby Doos I've seen, Shaggy always seems stoned, and hooks up with Daphne, Velma, and non-Mystery Machine chicks as well. Looks like he's pretty useless even in the alternate porno universe - I'm noticing a pattern here.
posted by Calloused_Foot at 10:44 PM on June 24, 2015
True, Shaggy's probably just smoking shit. Hmmm, now that I think about it, in the porno Scooby Doos I've seen, Shaggy always seems stoned, and hooks up with Daphne, Velma, and non-Mystery Machine chicks as well. Looks like he's pretty useless even in the alternate porno universe - I'm noticing a pattern here.
posted by Calloused_Foot at 10:44 PM on June 24, 2015
Westfield is also the home of Aadams family creator Charles Aadams whose house inspired the show. house
posted by arnoldsnarb at 11:25 PM on June 24, 2015
posted by arnoldsnarb at 11:25 PM on June 24, 2015
What if it's a long con and they are sending the letters themselves. Free house.
posted by bradbane at 3:34 PM on June 25 [+] [!]
Just flat out not even bothering to pretend to have read the thread, huh?
posted by pseudonymph at 11:25 PM on June 24, 2015
posted by bradbane at 3:34 PM on June 25 [+] [!]
Just flat out not even bothering to pretend to have read the thread, huh?
posted by pseudonymph at 11:25 PM on June 24, 2015
I think we should consider the possibility that the owners themselves are behind it!
Also, Charles Addams.
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:05 AM on June 25, 2015 [9 favorites]
Also, Charles Addams.
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:05 AM on June 25, 2015 [9 favorites]
True, Shaggy's probably just smoking shit. Hmmm, now that I think about it, in the porno Scooby Doos I've seen, Shaggy always seems stoned, and hooks up with Daphne, Velma, and non-Mystery Machine chicks as well. Looks like he's pretty useless even in the alternate porno universe - I'm noticing a pattern here.
Well, this just got weird.
posted by Literaryhero at 12:06 AM on June 25, 2015 [10 favorites]
Well, this just got weird.
posted by Literaryhero at 12:06 AM on June 25, 2015 [10 favorites]
I wanted to link to the Johnny Bravo Scooby Doo episode but everything on YouTube is in a language other than English.
posted by gucci mane at 12:31 AM on June 25, 2015
posted by gucci mane at 12:31 AM on June 25, 2015
"just"?
posted by kagredon at 12:31 AM on June 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by kagredon at 12:31 AM on June 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
It isn't just about it being fake, it's that this sounds like something disconnected from reality. Like, i had a friend years ago whose entire family was varying levels of schizophrenic or mentally ill. This was the kind of stuff they'd come up with, play off of each other on, and turn in to a huge thing. You'd get it calmly explained to you as if it totally made sense and was internally consistent when it was actually completely lost-the-plot extremely loose basis in reality material that only made sense if you were inside the thought bubble.
Fake might have even been the wrong word. It reads like the public statement of someone who isn't locked on to reality, and is too deep in to realize it.
Fuck, i used to live in a house owned by a guy who was constantly convinced something like this was going on. Place is full of like 30+ IP cameras facing every entrance, window, and room now. Every couple months there was some new creepy thing going on and they were harassing him or after him in some way. I'd come home and try and get in and all the doors would be barred because there was some not-entirely-plausible and easy to manufacture "evidence" that some new threat existed.
The more i think about this the more i feel bad for the kids. They're just getting pulled through this mess like one of those moving walkways at an airport.
posted by emptythought at 2:43 AM on June 25, 2015 [6 favorites]
Fake might have even been the wrong word. It reads like the public statement of someone who isn't locked on to reality, and is too deep in to realize it.
Fuck, i used to live in a house owned by a guy who was constantly convinced something like this was going on. Place is full of like 30+ IP cameras facing every entrance, window, and room now. Every couple months there was some new creepy thing going on and they were harassing him or after him in some way. I'd come home and try and get in and all the doors would be barred because there was some not-entirely-plausible and easy to manufacture "evidence" that some new threat existed.
The more i think about this the more i feel bad for the kids. They're just getting pulled through this mess like one of those moving walkways at an airport.
posted by emptythought at 2:43 AM on June 25, 2015 [6 favorites]
I was thinking that it's the Watcher who is "in the walls," like in Bad Ronald.
(The new family in that movie is even called the Woods family!)
posted by chococat at 4:33 AM on June 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
(The new family in that movie is even called the Woods family!)
posted by chococat at 4:33 AM on June 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
Woah, I grew up a stones throw from this house, like, 2 blocks.
Can confirm from 1981-1999 absolutely nothing paranormal happened here, we kids would have all known about it, it's very close to the high school. And Hershey's deli.....mmmmm Hershey's.
posted by remlapm at 5:25 AM on June 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
Can confirm from 1981-1999 absolutely nothing paranormal happened here, we kids would have all known about it, it's very close to the high school. And Hershey's deli.....mmmmm Hershey's.
posted by remlapm at 5:25 AM on June 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
guys what if it is a fake thing
posted by shakespeherian at 5:47 AM on June 25, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by shakespeherian at 5:47 AM on June 25, 2015 [6 favorites]
How many mefites have we told to "just move"?
DTMFHA.
posted by doctornecessiter at 5:55 AM on June 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
DTMFHA.
posted by doctornecessiter at 5:55 AM on June 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yeah, my thinking was that the house is awfully close to the high school. In fact I was pretty sure it was in the "Boulevard Historical District" before I even saw the address or the house, just from the bones of the story.
I'd take a look at the date of the last letter and compare with the date of graduating seniors. Lot of kids walk or drive right past there on their way home from school. I'd always hear ruckus on game nights from passing kids, and I was a couple blocks farther from the school.
Also, agreed, at least in the late 90's when I lived there, Hershey's did make a mean sandwich.
posted by Karmakaze at 5:58 AM on June 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'd take a look at the date of the last letter and compare with the date of graduating seniors. Lot of kids walk or drive right past there on their way home from school. I'd always hear ruckus on game nights from passing kids, and I was a couple blocks farther from the school.
Also, agreed, at least in the late 90's when I lived there, Hershey's did make a mean sandwich.
posted by Karmakaze at 5:58 AM on June 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
I once nearly bought a MURDERHOUSE™ when the seller's agent failed to disclose a particularly gruesome murder had taken place inside. We'd gotten to the point of having my dad (a carpenter) do a walk through to look at the systems and writing an offer. One day, from out of nowhere, my realtor calls and says "aaaaagh! [murderhouse details] I just found out, legally you can bail, what do you want to do?"
Dad gets home from work (I was in grad school and living with them for a year). I tell him the beginning of the story and he interrupts me. "Yeah, there's a cold spot in front of the furnace, I figured if you didn't notice, why scare you?" AS I WAS ABOUT TO FINISH MY SENTENCE ABOUT THE MURDERED PERSON GETTING TOSSED DOWN THE STAIRS AND DYING IN FRONT OF THE FURNACE.
THANKS, DAD.
p.s. I pulled the offer and did not buy murderhouse. Said murder was too grisly and I would be living alone.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 7:02 AM on June 25, 2015 [34 favorites]
Dad gets home from work (I was in grad school and living with them for a year). I tell him the beginning of the story and he interrupts me. "Yeah, there's a cold spot in front of the furnace, I figured if you didn't notice, why scare you?" AS I WAS ABOUT TO FINISH MY SENTENCE ABOUT THE MURDERED PERSON GETTING TOSSED DOWN THE STAIRS AND DYING IN FRONT OF THE FURNACE.
THANKS, DAD.
p.s. I pulled the offer and did not buy murderhouse. Said murder was too grisly and I would be living alone.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 7:02 AM on June 25, 2015 [34 favorites]
This also is all somewhat reminiscent of the old Simmons place in Rachel, KS, where these recorded historical events happened.
posted by doctornecessiter at 7:16 AM on June 25, 2015
posted by doctornecessiter at 7:16 AM on June 25, 2015
Yeah, there's a cold spot in front of the furnace
what's a "cold spot"? Is that like an actual term for something related to construction of a house, or just a place that happens to be a bit cold?
posted by Hoopo at 9:52 AM on June 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
what's a "cold spot"? Is that like an actual term for something related to construction of a house, or just a place that happens to be a bit cold?
posted by Hoopo at 9:52 AM on June 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
Unless we do away with the ability to send anonymous letters, what is the solution to this? I don't see a way to resolve this without leaving someone very unhappy. My feeling is that it will be resolved in line with the traditional arms-length conceptions of contract law, which will leave the buyers without a remedy. We don't, socially, want to give lunatics the ability to stick people with a house that they would like to sell.
However, there is a possibility that such situations could be prevented, going forward, by writing a kind of "warranty against unusual circumstances" that could provide a laundry list of things that the sellers assure the buyers have not happened and that they are not aware of in connection with the house, such as warranting that there has been no history of criminal or harassing or stalking behavior directed toward the house, no unusual attention by third parties, etc.
posted by jayder at 10:27 AM on June 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
However, there is a possibility that such situations could be prevented, going forward, by writing a kind of "warranty against unusual circumstances" that could provide a laundry list of things that the sellers assure the buyers have not happened and that they are not aware of in connection with the house, such as warranting that there has been no history of criminal or harassing or stalking behavior directed toward the house, no unusual attention by third parties, etc.
posted by jayder at 10:27 AM on June 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
what's a "cold spot"? Is that like an actual term for something related to construction of a house, or just a place that happens to be a bit cold?
It's a place that is colder than the surrounding area. It's a cliché in paranormal studies and stories to have the location where a violent death occurred or the location of where a ghost is inhabiting / standing / known to frequent be a cold spot, something you can physically feel as you walk through it if you decide to pay attention to fluctuations in temperature.
posted by hippybear at 10:50 AM on June 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's a place that is colder than the surrounding area. It's a cliché in paranormal studies and stories to have the location where a violent death occurred or the location of where a ghost is inhabiting / standing / known to frequent be a cold spot, something you can physically feel as you walk through it if you decide to pay attention to fluctuations in temperature.
posted by hippybear at 10:50 AM on June 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm inclined to believe that it's a prank gone wrong, or a person who might legitimately believe these things and have some sort of mental illness. I can also see the possibility that it's the current residents trying to get a free house, although I'm disinclined from thinking that's the most likely scenario just because of how easy it would be to find out. It's worth noting that the police have been investigating this for a while, and figuring out that it was the current residents seems like it would've happened by now, but maybe that's placing too much faith in local police work.
posted by codacorolla at 12:39 PM on June 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by codacorolla at 12:39 PM on June 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
I wouldn't buy a million dollar house that came with a stalker either. No way.
posted by corb at 4:46 PM on June 25, 2015
posted by corb at 4:46 PM on June 25, 2015
However, there is a possibility that such situations could be prevented, going forward, by writing a kind of "warranty against unusual circumstances" that could provide a laundry list of things that the sellers assure the buyers have not happened and that they are not aware of in connection with the house, such as warranting that there has been no history of criminal or harassing or stalking behavior directed toward the house, no unusual attention by third parties, etc.
I'm really surprised this isn't already a thing. Given the mountains of paperwork involved, why hasn't it become standard to include a clause in one of the contracts like "Seller guarantees that house has no undisclosed [boilerplate list of bad things etc.] that seller knows would diminish a reasonable person's enjoyment of it and that could not be uncovered by reasonable inspection" or something like that? Too hard to enforce?
posted by No-sword at 8:47 PM on June 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm really surprised this isn't already a thing. Given the mountains of paperwork involved, why hasn't it become standard to include a clause in one of the contracts like "Seller guarantees that house has no undisclosed [boilerplate list of bad things etc.] that seller knows would diminish a reasonable person's enjoyment of it and that could not be uncovered by reasonable inspection" or something like that? Too hard to enforce?
posted by No-sword at 8:47 PM on June 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
Thanks for posting this, codacorolla. In the buyers' shoes, and as the parent of a couple of young kids of my own, I'd have left that house so fucking fast. So I completely get where these buyers are coming from. Maybe there is no remedy for them at law, but what about an equitable remedy? It sucks that this is probably a shitty prank, and that it's apparently working. I agree that if it were the buyers just making all of this up, they'd have probably been found out by now, especially given the press this has generated, I'd imagine we'd be hearing about any shady past acts of these buyers.
posted by hush at 6:23 AM on June 26, 2015
posted by hush at 6:23 AM on June 26, 2015
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posted by trackofalljades at 3:16 PM on June 24, 2015 [2 favorites]