It's like Uber for shower gel
August 7, 2015 4:02 PM Subscribe
"In lieu of showering I sprayed myself with AOBiome’s custom skin bacteria blend. Body odor is caused by the emissions of proliferating skin bacteria, as unique as a fingerprint. The Nitrosomonas eutropha taking over my skin now metabolizes ammonia into odorless nitrite and nitric oxide. Success! I wish I had a strain that excreted lipases, as my hair was still greasy." Why is the software engineer behind Soylent not using water in the shower and spraying himself with dirt instead?
Bloomberg: "To make spray-on bacteria more appealing, AOBiome is reintroducing its line this summer under a new name, Mother Dirt, a reference to the soil from which the key ingredient is derived."
prnewswire.com: "The mist is simply sprayed on skin, especially on sweat-prone areas, instantly applying the AOB enabling the bacteria to do its work and reestablish itself in the skin biome." ... "Mother Dirt AO+ Mist is available in a 3.4 fl. oz. (100 mL) bottle and costs $49. Mother Dirt Shampoo (100 mL) can be purchased for $15 and Mother Dirt Cleanser (100 mL) for $15. All three can be purchased for $69."
Global Cosmetic News: "The mist came to fruition when the company’s founding scientist David Whitlock looked into the benefit of mud to horse’s skin and discovered the ammonia-oxidizing bacteria (AOB) in the soil must be helping the animal clean itself. Following more research, Whitlock discovered that AOBs convert the urea and ammonia into sweat, which is abrasive to the skin, into nitrate, which fights most bad bacteria, and nitrate oxide, which has anti-inflammatory properties."
Beta Boston: "Around 2000, when MIT-trained engineer David Whitlock hit the scientific conference circuit to explain his theories on how bacteria had kept our pre-soap ancestors clean, most people thought he was nuts. It didn’t help that he ... says he hasn’t showered in 15 years because the organisms he uses on himself daily are killed by store-bought soaps."
Slate: "...as exciting as some microbiome research is, it is prone to exaggeration, and the research supporting AOBiome’s claims has been limited."
Fashionstyle: "...We want people to reconnect with the time when they were a kid and it was okay to get dirty and it was fun."
Reaction on social media has, perhaps, not been kind.
Bloomberg: "To make spray-on bacteria more appealing, AOBiome is reintroducing its line this summer under a new name, Mother Dirt, a reference to the soil from which the key ingredient is derived."
prnewswire.com: "The mist is simply sprayed on skin, especially on sweat-prone areas, instantly applying the AOB enabling the bacteria to do its work and reestablish itself in the skin biome." ... "Mother Dirt AO+ Mist is available in a 3.4 fl. oz. (100 mL) bottle and costs $49. Mother Dirt Shampoo (100 mL) can be purchased for $15 and Mother Dirt Cleanser (100 mL) for $15. All three can be purchased for $69."
Global Cosmetic News: "The mist came to fruition when the company’s founding scientist David Whitlock looked into the benefit of mud to horse’s skin and discovered the ammonia-oxidizing bacteria (AOB) in the soil must be helping the animal clean itself. Following more research, Whitlock discovered that AOBs convert the urea and ammonia into sweat, which is abrasive to the skin, into nitrate, which fights most bad bacteria, and nitrate oxide, which has anti-inflammatory properties."
Beta Boston: "Around 2000, when MIT-trained engineer David Whitlock hit the scientific conference circuit to explain his theories on how bacteria had kept our pre-soap ancestors clean, most people thought he was nuts. It didn’t help that he ... says he hasn’t showered in 15 years because the organisms he uses on himself daily are killed by store-bought soaps."
Slate: "...as exciting as some microbiome research is, it is prone to exaggeration, and the research supporting AOBiome’s claims has been limited."
Fashionstyle: "...We want people to reconnect with the time when they were a kid and it was okay to get dirty and it was fun."
Reaction on social media has, perhaps, not been kind.
He is clearly operating some sort of incredible long form troll, this man who wishes his consumers to pay to spray themselves with dirt and funnel vaguely nutritional ooze into their mouths.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 4:08 PM on August 7, 2015 [37 favorites]
posted by Jon Mitchell at 4:08 PM on August 7, 2015 [37 favorites]
Next up, celebrity-derived biome sprays, the bacteria of the stars.
posted by Auden at 4:11 PM on August 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Auden at 4:11 PM on August 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
So it's like the paleo diet, but for bathing.
posted by teponaztli at 4:11 PM on August 7, 2015 [15 favorites]
posted by teponaztli at 4:11 PM on August 7, 2015 [15 favorites]
i mean really what the actual fuck
just get in the fucking shower and wash your ass you filth encrusted imbecile
no one needs to disrupt personal hygiene
posted by poffin boffin at 4:13 PM on August 7, 2015 [109 favorites]
just get in the fucking shower and wash your ass you filth encrusted imbecile
no one needs to disrupt personal hygiene
posted by poffin boffin at 4:13 PM on August 7, 2015 [109 favorites]
First thought: finally, with this solution, the couple in England can throw away their beaker.
posted by Wordshore at 4:14 PM on August 7, 2015 [22 favorites]
posted by Wordshore at 4:14 PM on August 7, 2015 [22 favorites]
I'd actually try this. I'm an unwashed hippie (most weekends unless I'm going out) and I don't mind my own scent although I know others do, and I'd welcome trying something that actually was part of the biological process than smearing some gel under my arms after showering on workdays.
I have no idea if it works or not, or if it works on some and not on others, or what, but as long as the bacteria are benign while living on me, I wouldn't mind seeing if it worked.
I mean, the human body has more bacteria in it and on it than it does human cells. A few more won't hurt.
posted by hippybear at 4:15 PM on August 7, 2015 [9 favorites]
I have no idea if it works or not, or if it works on some and not on others, or what, but as long as the bacteria are benign while living on me, I wouldn't mind seeing if it worked.
I mean, the human body has more bacteria in it and on it than it does human cells. A few more won't hurt.
posted by hippybear at 4:15 PM on August 7, 2015 [9 favorites]
And I realize what I said might be interpreted to mean I won't be showering workdays.
I mean, I'd use this instead of smearing goo under my arms.
posted by hippybear at 4:15 PM on August 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
I mean, I'd use this instead of smearing goo under my arms.
posted by hippybear at 4:15 PM on August 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
I said this before in the previous thread about him: it's less "asshole engineers gonna engineer" to me than this sad pathetic guy who really hates everything about being human. It's like, jeez, dude, we are made of meat and bone and this is not a bad thing seriously.
posted by Kitteh at 4:18 PM on August 7, 2015 [45 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 4:18 PM on August 7, 2015 [45 favorites]
As someone who doesn't wear deodorant because allergies, this actually seems intruiging.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 4:18 PM on August 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 4:18 PM on August 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
So. The point of bathing is to *smell* good, not *get clean*.
Yeah. Sure, uh huh.
posted by jefflowrey at 4:20 PM on August 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
Yeah. Sure, uh huh.
posted by jefflowrey at 4:20 PM on August 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
Must admit, I'd be keen to try it for a day (a day where I don't have any social contact with anyone else).
But I'm not $49 keen to try it. Diving into a muddy puddle strikes me as $49 cheaper.
posted by Wordshore at 4:22 PM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
But I'm not $49 keen to try it. Diving into a muddy puddle strikes me as $49 cheaper.
posted by Wordshore at 4:22 PM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Commercial antiperspirants use aluminum compounds, and aluminum is known to be neurotoxic. I don't think enough research has been done to show a correlation between antiperspirant and dementia at this time, but I'm starting to ask "Why risk it?"
Like hippybear, I'd like to try something more natural and benign than commercial antiperspirants at this point.
posted by infinitewindow at 4:24 PM on August 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
Like hippybear, I'd like to try something more natural and benign than commercial antiperspirants at this point.
posted by infinitewindow at 4:24 PM on August 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
Is this like nopoo (no shampoo) but for your body? I feel like it isn't really... but anyway...
'Cuz... I mean... I would have sworn that no-poo was some Bull. Shit. Until I tried it a year ago and never looked back. Seriously, once I got over the first week-to-a-month of extra greasy hair then it has been 1000% percent better: no dandruff, no hair oilyness causing me to need a shower EVERY DAY or risk looking like I greased my hair on purpose, and less misc. scalp issues as well.
Ditto for my switch from daily, sometimes twice daily, deodorant and anti-persperant (the medical grade and/or heavy duty stuffs) to just shaving the 'pits and using a bar of crystal salt stuff that will probably last me 10 years at the rate I'm going....
I've seen people say what I'm doing is impossible, or at least for themselves, and I respect that but I really was a poster-child for the whole no way could I operate in society as a normal [non-stinky] person without shampoo and deodorant because I'm an outlier in the wrong direction and all that but it really is amazing to say that I've proven myself wrong, rather gracefully too in the grand scheme of things.
No, I don't stink or smell odd or earthy. My wife would tell me, post-haste. She was skeptical as well but really sees the difference.
posted by RolandOfEld at 4:24 PM on August 7, 2015 [18 favorites]
'Cuz... I mean... I would have sworn that no-poo was some Bull. Shit. Until I tried it a year ago and never looked back. Seriously, once I got over the first week-to-a-month of extra greasy hair then it has been 1000% percent better: no dandruff, no hair oilyness causing me to need a shower EVERY DAY or risk looking like I greased my hair on purpose, and less misc. scalp issues as well.
Ditto for my switch from daily, sometimes twice daily, deodorant and anti-persperant (the medical grade and/or heavy duty stuffs) to just shaving the 'pits and using a bar of crystal salt stuff that will probably last me 10 years at the rate I'm going....
I've seen people say what I'm doing is impossible, or at least for themselves, and I respect that but I really was a poster-child for the whole no way could I operate in society as a normal [non-stinky] person without shampoo and deodorant because I'm an outlier in the wrong direction and all that but it really is amazing to say that I've proven myself wrong, rather gracefully too in the grand scheme of things.
No, I don't stink or smell odd or earthy. My wife would tell me, post-haste. She was skeptical as well but really sees the difference.
posted by RolandOfEld at 4:24 PM on August 7, 2015 [18 favorites]
A friend tried to get me to watch Game of Thrones but I told her all I could think about while watching is how awful everybody must smell. I'm getting the same vibe here.
posted by uncleozzy at 4:24 PM on August 7, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 4:24 PM on August 7, 2015 [16 favorites]
This guy must be the same guy behind Bored Elon Musk.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 4:25 PM on August 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 4:25 PM on August 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
I don't know, I'm also kind of an unwashed hippie, but I've been burned in the past by trying alternatives to the underarm goo.
For example, the smoke from burning juniper is supposed to do something to the bacteria that make you smell bad, and supposedly smoke baths in juniper smoke can work as an alternative to deodorant. In my experience, however, it makes you smell like someone threw a bunch of onions on a campfire.
Essential oils, no matter what they are, end up smelling like really sad perfume. You can almost personify the oil as it tries, desperately, to fight a losing battle against ragin' BO.
Don't even ask me about the time I thought "BO occurs because you're letting sweat build up under there" and made a point of putting my arms up all the time to dry things out.
I remain skeptical about dirt bacteria.
posted by teponaztli at 4:26 PM on August 7, 2015 [15 favorites]
For example, the smoke from burning juniper is supposed to do something to the bacteria that make you smell bad, and supposedly smoke baths in juniper smoke can work as an alternative to deodorant. In my experience, however, it makes you smell like someone threw a bunch of onions on a campfire.
Essential oils, no matter what they are, end up smelling like really sad perfume. You can almost personify the oil as it tries, desperately, to fight a losing battle against ragin' BO.
Don't even ask me about the time I thought "BO occurs because you're letting sweat build up under there" and made a point of putting my arms up all the time to dry things out.
I remain skeptical about dirt bacteria.
posted by teponaztli at 4:26 PM on August 7, 2015 [15 favorites]
Now we can all literally be inverted douche-bags.
posted by srboisvert at 4:28 PM on August 7, 2015
posted by srboisvert at 4:28 PM on August 7, 2015
So. The point of bathing is to *smell* good, not *get clean*.
Yeah. Sure, uh huh.
I suffer pretty constant skin things, not like acne pimples on my face but pores get clogged on all parts of my body and then turn solid and get angry, or any number of other things I won't describe in even that general level of detail.
If I have 4 days off where I don't have to shower (a long weekend alone or going camping or whatnot), it all clears up. For some people, daily bathing is detrimental. For others, it is neutral. For others it is beneficial.
(People are going to tell me I've been using the wrong soap or need to loofa or whatever... don't bother. I've tried so many things for 1 year periods [to make sure things actually got used to it] that I know it's just how my body works. Not all bodies work the same.)
I guess my point is, there's a difference between daily bathing and getting clean. Maybe? And modern society seems to equate "having zero body odor or be emanating a manufactured scent" withbeing clean daily bathing which it equates with being clean.
posted by hippybear at 4:29 PM on August 7, 2015 [28 favorites]
Yeah. Sure, uh huh.
I suffer pretty constant skin things, not like acne pimples on my face but pores get clogged on all parts of my body and then turn solid and get angry, or any number of other things I won't describe in even that general level of detail.
If I have 4 days off where I don't have to shower (a long weekend alone or going camping or whatnot), it all clears up. For some people, daily bathing is detrimental. For others, it is neutral. For others it is beneficial.
(People are going to tell me I've been using the wrong soap or need to loofa or whatever... don't bother. I've tried so many things for 1 year periods [to make sure things actually got used to it] that I know it's just how my body works. Not all bodies work the same.)
I guess my point is, there's a difference between daily bathing and getting clean. Maybe? And modern society seems to equate "having zero body odor or be emanating a manufactured scent" with
posted by hippybear at 4:29 PM on August 7, 2015 [28 favorites]
When I started to read this I thought to myself "ha ha, another dorky idea like Soylent." And then it turns out this was by the same guy who came up with Soyulent.
If VC's are pumping money into making optimized Speed Stick, there really must be a tech bubble.
posted by Nevin at 4:29 PM on August 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
If VC's are pumping money into making optimized Speed Stick, there really must be a tech bubble.
posted by Nevin at 4:29 PM on August 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
I am a "no-poo" person, because most shampoos exacerbate my psoriasis.
posted by Nevin at 4:30 PM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Nevin at 4:30 PM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
teponaztli: Pardon the question and all that but did you shave your pits? Seriously, shaving the pits every so often is a night and day difference for me. Outside of that I'd never think BO could be conquered except by those blessed few who seem to not smell or at least be able to go days/weeks without creating a miasma of stench that would kill most mortals in close proximity.
And amen hippybear, amen.
posted by RolandOfEld at 4:31 PM on August 7, 2015
And amen hippybear, amen.
posted by RolandOfEld at 4:31 PM on August 7, 2015
Metafilter introduced me to this and I've never looked back. Still sweat - it's not an antiperspirant - but I am no longer a Super Stink. I can sneak up on tigers like all freaking day, suckers never see me coming.
posted by curious nu at 4:34 PM on August 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by curious nu at 4:34 PM on August 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
I would never, ever use this.
I may not be the most traditionally handsome alpha male in the world, but almost all of my partners over the years have invariably had this overwhelming thing in regard to my scent. It's a bit odd and fetishy... but in a nice way.
I can get pretty sweaty at times, but unless I really let myself go, I can do no wrong. I like to shower regularly, but sometimes, they have gotten a bit bummed out about me doing so. If this stuff actually did what it claims to do, I would be concerned about killing my mojo.
posted by markkraft at 4:36 PM on August 7, 2015 [10 favorites]
I may not be the most traditionally handsome alpha male in the world, but almost all of my partners over the years have invariably had this overwhelming thing in regard to my scent. It's a bit odd and fetishy... but in a nice way.
I can get pretty sweaty at times, but unless I really let myself go, I can do no wrong. I like to shower regularly, but sometimes, they have gotten a bit bummed out about me doing so. If this stuff actually did what it claims to do, I would be concerned about killing my mojo.
posted by markkraft at 4:36 PM on August 7, 2015 [10 favorites]
markkraft: I can get lost in the right manscent. And some get lost in mine. I'm right there with ya.
posted by hippybear at 4:39 PM on August 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 4:39 PM on August 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
I asked my fiancee about my manscent recently, and she said "no, let me clarify, when I said I found your smell attractive, I didn't mean your horrible BO. Please take a shower."
RolandOfEld: I tried that a while ago and found it really uncomfortable. Not to sound whiny - I just have super sensitive skin (which is why I was looking for deodorant alternatives in the first place - that stuff can be painful).
posted by teponaztli at 4:41 PM on August 7, 2015 [9 favorites]
RolandOfEld: I tried that a while ago and found it really uncomfortable. Not to sound whiny - I just have super sensitive skin (which is why I was looking for deodorant alternatives in the first place - that stuff can be painful).
posted by teponaztli at 4:41 PM on August 7, 2015 [9 favorites]
Assuming it works and is affordable, I'd buy it to use for camping.
posted by Poldo at 4:43 PM on August 7, 2015
posted by Poldo at 4:43 PM on August 7, 2015
I like to shower regularly, but sometimes, they have gotten a bit bummed out about me doing so. If this stuff actually did what it claims to do, I would be concerned about killing my mojo.
Thinking laterally, have *you* considered bottling and selling your sweat/scent as a spray? "The Markkraft Effect" or something. There's a kickstarter in there, somewhere...
posted by Wordshore at 4:45 PM on August 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
Thinking laterally, have *you* considered bottling and selling your sweat/scent as a spray? "The Markkraft Effect" or something. There's a kickstarter in there, somewhere...
posted by Wordshore at 4:45 PM on August 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
Spray whatever bacteria on your skin you like, all good by me. But, killing off your gut bacteria to avoid flushing the toilet -- holy shit!
Guy is ruining the 4L challenge with such absurdity, which otherwise is a perfectly good way to look at how much water you use. I did my numbers and they're 10L a day of direct water use, without all this guy's crazy. Easy with just standard off the grid variety of crazy including such things as a composting toilet.
posted by joeyh at 4:45 PM on August 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
Guy is ruining the 4L challenge with such absurdity, which otherwise is a perfectly good way to look at how much water you use. I did my numbers and they're 10L a day of direct water use, without all this guy's crazy. Easy with just standard off the grid variety of crazy including such things as a composting toilet.
posted by joeyh at 4:45 PM on August 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
Obligatory Kids in the Hall sketch.
posted by buriednexttoyou at 4:47 PM on August 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by buriednexttoyou at 4:47 PM on August 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
Ha! Good thing I refreshed before posting my indignant comment about the toilet. Still, to quote the article:
"I massacred my gut bacteria the day before by consuming a DIY Soylent version with no fiber and taking 500mg of Rifaximin, an antibiotic with poor bioavailability, meaning it stays in your gut and kills bacteria. Soylent’s microbiome consultant advised that this is a terrible idea so I do not recommend it. However, it worked. Throughout the challenge I did not defecate."
Whatever one may feel about the shower replacer, this is insane. And certainly non sustainable for anyone.
I mean, can't he afford a composting toilet or something? Jesus.
posted by Earthtopus at 4:47 PM on August 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
"I massacred my gut bacteria the day before by consuming a DIY Soylent version with no fiber and taking 500mg of Rifaximin, an antibiotic with poor bioavailability, meaning it stays in your gut and kills bacteria. Soylent’s microbiome consultant advised that this is a terrible idea so I do not recommend it. However, it worked. Throughout the challenge I did not defecate."
Whatever one may feel about the shower replacer, this is insane. And certainly non sustainable for anyone.
I mean, can't he afford a composting toilet or something? Jesus.
posted by Earthtopus at 4:47 PM on August 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
"Throughout the challenge I did not defecate."
I would love to see this guy's OK Cupid dating profile.
posted by Wordshore at 4:50 PM on August 7, 2015 [32 favorites]
I would love to see this guy's OK Cupid dating profile.
posted by Wordshore at 4:50 PM on August 7, 2015 [32 favorites]
RolandOfEld, this is essentially a quick-start no-poo for your skin.
I'm surprised to see that no other Mefites have at least experimented with no soap. Like Nevin I quit using shampoo due psoriasis. It didn't really help that too much, but after a few weeks my hair was lustrous, not greasy and had wonderful body and lift. I mean I assume. I don't actually know what those words mean relative to hair, but it looked great.
After waking up stuck onto my sheets with blood from where I'd been scratching in my sleep I decided to try the same thing with soap. I started showering using only water and scrubbing thoroughly with a washcloth. It took a while to get used to, since at first you walk around in public going, "EVERYONE KNOWS I MUST BE A STINK BEAST OH THEIR JUDGING EYES." After about a month I asked my coworkers to be honest with me, explaining it was a self-performed medical experiment and that I needed honesty. They told me they didn't notice a thing, particularly impressive as I walked 3 miles a day to work in the Texas summer sun. The following Christmas, after a walk down Miami Beach where my clothes had darkened three shades and gained a few pounds in sweat, I asked my family--a source both honest and cruelly sarcastic--to give me a sniff and found the same results.
Gotta' admit, it did nothing for my psoriasis. I sure to do love having two minute showers, though.
posted by OMGTehAwsome at 4:51 PM on August 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
I'm surprised to see that no other Mefites have at least experimented with no soap. Like Nevin I quit using shampoo due psoriasis. It didn't really help that too much, but after a few weeks my hair was lustrous, not greasy and had wonderful body and lift. I mean I assume. I don't actually know what those words mean relative to hair, but it looked great.
After waking up stuck onto my sheets with blood from where I'd been scratching in my sleep I decided to try the same thing with soap. I started showering using only water and scrubbing thoroughly with a washcloth. It took a while to get used to, since at first you walk around in public going, "EVERYONE KNOWS I MUST BE A STINK BEAST OH THEIR JUDGING EYES." After about a month I asked my coworkers to be honest with me, explaining it was a self-performed medical experiment and that I needed honesty. They told me they didn't notice a thing, particularly impressive as I walked 3 miles a day to work in the Texas summer sun. The following Christmas, after a walk down Miami Beach where my clothes had darkened three shades and gained a few pounds in sweat, I asked my family--a source both honest and cruelly sarcastic--to give me a sniff and found the same results.
Gotta' admit, it did nothing for my psoriasis. I sure to do love having two minute showers, though.
posted by OMGTehAwsome at 4:51 PM on August 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
Bespoke fire from Europe.
posted by boo_radley at 4:54 PM on August 7, 2015
posted by boo_radley at 4:54 PM on August 7, 2015
I gotta take a shower just from reading this thread
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:58 PM on August 7, 2015 [25 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:58 PM on August 7, 2015 [25 favorites]
OMGTehAwsome: I have tried going without soap. My skin is really sensitive and I was hoping that using a washcloth and hot water would make a difference. It didn't work for me - not only did I smell like hell, I felt kind of grimy. Maybe it was my imagination, or maybe it's something about my body chemistry, I don't know. I'd gone without shampoo when I had long hair, but it got really greasy when I cut it short, no matter how often I brushed or rinsed it out.
With both of these, maybe I was doing it wrong. It might even just be cultural conditioning to think I need soap, but I'm more comfortable now with soap and shampoo than I was without, even with my sensitive skin.
posted by teponaztli at 5:02 PM on August 7, 2015
With both of these, maybe I was doing it wrong. It might even just be cultural conditioning to think I need soap, but I'm more comfortable now with soap and shampoo than I was without, even with my sensitive skin.
posted by teponaztli at 5:02 PM on August 7, 2015
So my takeaway is that this guy hates being alive?
posted by The Whelk at 5:03 PM on August 7, 2015 [18 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 5:03 PM on August 7, 2015 [18 favorites]
So my takeaway is that this guy hates being alive?
Pretty sure he just wants to be a brain in a jar. I kind of sympathize, but the many hedonistic pleasures of the physical form are pretty great.
posted by yasaman at 5:08 PM on August 7, 2015 [12 favorites]
Pretty sure he just wants to be a brain in a jar. I kind of sympathize, but the many hedonistic pleasures of the physical form are pretty great.
posted by yasaman at 5:08 PM on August 7, 2015 [12 favorites]
im having traumatic flashbacks to that askme where the girl was like "i keep getting BV from my boyfriend's stanky junk, should we break up"
posted by poffin boffin at 5:10 PM on August 7, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 5:10 PM on August 7, 2015 [16 favorites]
Hypothesis: these work in the way that going from "oh god, this isn't working yet" to no longer being able to smell yourself works.
posted by zippy at 5:10 PM on August 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by zippy at 5:10 PM on August 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
Pretty sure he just wants to be a brain in a jar.
We are all just brains in bone jars driving meat robots.
posted by hippybear at 5:11 PM on August 7, 2015 [32 favorites]
We are all just brains in bone jars driving meat robots.
posted by hippybear at 5:11 PM on August 7, 2015 [32 favorites]
To avoid dishes and their subsequent water usage I poured my Soylent one meal at a time in to a polystyrene cup, which takes less than 1L of water to make . . . . If there’s anything as amazing as water it’s petroleum. My clothing and dishes take less water to make than they do to clean.
So this is the same guy who rationalized continuously buying new clothes from China instead of washing them because it costs less? The one who I was sure was writing satire but apparently was not?
How can you not realize that your actions have repercussions beyond your immediate experience?
posted by bibliowench at 5:16 PM on August 7, 2015 [15 favorites]
So this is the same guy who rationalized continuously buying new clothes from China instead of washing them because it costs less? The one who I was sure was writing satire but apparently was not?
How can you not realize that your actions have repercussions beyond your immediate experience?
posted by bibliowench at 5:16 PM on August 7, 2015 [15 favorites]
when you haven't showered in 15 years or pooped in a month i imagine your perspective changes.
posted by poffin boffin at 5:17 PM on August 7, 2015 [33 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 5:17 PM on August 7, 2015 [33 favorites]
My standard outfit is mostly cotton, which takes 20,000L of water per kg so I had to improvise. I did some research and settled on Nomex, a meta-aramid invented by DuPont in the 1960’s. Nomex is a fantastic material used in applications as diverse as circuit boards, loudspeakers, and clothing. Made via condensation from m-phenylenediamine and isophthaloyl chloride, its production uses no water. I found a Nomex flight suit on Alibaba and added a “Soylent” patch. I love it. It’s cheap, simple, comfortable, and fireproof, just in case. I also did no laundry of course, which would have used 170L.
Direct water usage: 0L
Virtual water usage: 0L
christ almighty does this nimrod actually think that polymer plants operate with 0 water waste
posted by kagredon at 5:21 PM on August 7, 2015 [40 favorites]
Direct water usage: 0L
Virtual water usage: 0L
christ almighty does this nimrod actually think that polymer plants operate with 0 water waste
posted by kagredon at 5:21 PM on August 7, 2015 [40 favorites]
OMGTehAwsome: Going without soap in the shower (except for, y'know, underarms and crotch) got me through the worst years of atopic eczema in my youth. You're definitely not alone. And I don't think anyone noticed, because people were genuinely shocked when I told them. It's so easy to shock people when it comes to hygiene!
posted by thetortoise at 5:23 PM on August 7, 2015
posted by thetortoise at 5:23 PM on August 7, 2015
OH GOD AND I HADN'T EVEN GOTTEN TO THE PART ABOUT THE STYROFOAM CUPS. JESUS, HOW DO YOU THINK WE GET THE PETROLEUM
the comments are amazing, though:
This guy took antibiotics to kill off his intestinal fauna in order to stop defecating. I think what he's doing goes well beyond "scientific exploration" at this point.
Dude, you're headed straight for the land of kidney stones. Have a spare one of my old ones, while you're at it.
And, there's another way to not defecate. It's called "fasting." Try it for about 2 months or so, and you'll have the "not defecating" perfected!
You forgot to mention that you did this to prove to anyone who had any doubts that you're not literally full of shit, right?
posted by kagredon at 5:29 PM on August 7, 2015 [11 favorites]
the comments are amazing, though:
This guy took antibiotics to kill off his intestinal fauna in order to stop defecating. I think what he's doing goes well beyond "scientific exploration" at this point.
Dude, you're headed straight for the land of kidney stones. Have a spare one of my old ones, while you're at it.
And, there's another way to not defecate. It's called "fasting." Try it for about 2 months or so, and you'll have the "not defecating" perfected!
You forgot to mention that you did this to prove to anyone who had any doubts that you're not literally full of shit, right?
posted by kagredon at 5:29 PM on August 7, 2015 [11 favorites]
I did a 23-day Outward Bound course a while ago where the only washing of the person we did was a fast-as-possible dip in the icy Atlantic once a day. I gotta say, my skin and hair lost all greasiness after a few days and looked great.
posted by bendy at 5:36 PM on August 7, 2015
posted by bendy at 5:36 PM on August 7, 2015
"I did not defecate." ... I would love to see this guy's OK Cupid dating profile.
He's on Grindr. Very popular bottom.
posted by Nelson at 5:37 PM on August 7, 2015 [6 favorites]
He's on Grindr. Very popular bottom.
posted by Nelson at 5:37 PM on August 7, 2015 [6 favorites]
My husband tried this. Now he won't go without it.
Years ago, I got him to try the crystal salt deodorant stuff that Mefites raved about. He said it worked for half the day if he put it on immediately after showering, but in the afternoons he started to stink and applying it again didn't work. He eventually settled on a combination of using sulfur soap (antibacterial, you know) in his morning shower, and this Benedetta essential oil based deodorant, which worked well enough except in really hot weather or really stressful conditions.
The first day he tried AOBiome, he came back from work and announced: "Sniff my armpits!" After I stopped laughing, I did. No smell whatsofreakinever. It was amazing. Sorry to say, it stopped being that effective, deodorant-wise, after about two weeks.
Now he uses the Benedetta and the AOBiome in some precisely calculated timing and application sequence that I can't remember. He won't go without the AOBiome because he says since he started using it, he rarely gets acne on his face or body any more.
I think AOBiome must be looking into studying it as an acne treatment because they sent out a survey asking for our experiences of their product, including a question about acne. Who knows if my husband is typical or not in that regard, though. (Ah yes, they are setting up studies. For rosacea and eczema too.)
(Also if you meet him at a meetup, please please please don't mention that I talked about his armpit stank here. Please? ....okay okay I'll bribe you with beer)
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 5:40 PM on August 7, 2015 [14 favorites]
Years ago, I got him to try the crystal salt deodorant stuff that Mefites raved about. He said it worked for half the day if he put it on immediately after showering, but in the afternoons he started to stink and applying it again didn't work. He eventually settled on a combination of using sulfur soap (antibacterial, you know) in his morning shower, and this Benedetta essential oil based deodorant, which worked well enough except in really hot weather or really stressful conditions.
The first day he tried AOBiome, he came back from work and announced: "Sniff my armpits!" After I stopped laughing, I did. No smell whatsofreakinever. It was amazing. Sorry to say, it stopped being that effective, deodorant-wise, after about two weeks.
Now he uses the Benedetta and the AOBiome in some precisely calculated timing and application sequence that I can't remember. He won't go without the AOBiome because he says since he started using it, he rarely gets acne on his face or body any more.
I think AOBiome must be looking into studying it as an acne treatment because they sent out a survey asking for our experiences of their product, including a question about acne. Who knows if my husband is typical or not in that regard, though. (Ah yes, they are setting up studies. For rosacea and eczema too.)
(Also if you meet him at a meetup, please please please don't mention that I talked about his armpit stank here. Please? ....okay okay I'll bribe you with beer)
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 5:40 PM on August 7, 2015 [14 favorites]
This will really come in handy in a decade or two's time, once the invisible hand of the free market has adjusted the amount of living space the little people are entitled to way down. When one needs to be a midlevel financial engineer to pay the rent on a studio apartment and a medical or legal specialist for a room of one's own in a shared house, the average working stiff's personal space will have shrunk to a bunk bed with a roll-down privacy screen and a charging stand for a tablet, along with a locker for all their clothing and other physical possessions. Given that locker space is limited, odour-absorbing technologies will come in very handy; after all, you don't want to use your precious locker space on a week's supply of underwear, do you?
posted by acb at 5:44 PM on August 7, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by acb at 5:44 PM on August 7, 2015 [11 favorites]
What if we circle him slowly and subtly sniffing a lot when he won't notice?
posted by hippybear at 5:44 PM on August 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 5:44 PM on August 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
Anyone who would willfully forego the pleasure of standing in a hot shower is simply no longer human.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:51 PM on August 7, 2015 [48 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 5:51 PM on August 7, 2015 [48 favorites]
So my takeaway is that this guy hates being alive?
For the 4L challenge, he special-ordered a synthetic jumpsuit with a Soylent patch on it and massacred his gut bacteria just for the hell of it to see how low he could go.
My takeaway is that this guy probably enjoys life more than most people-- he seems to know exactly who he is and seems to be pretty awesome at being that person.
posted by what of it at 6:02 PM on August 7, 2015 [11 favorites]
For the 4L challenge, he special-ordered a synthetic jumpsuit with a Soylent patch on it and massacred his gut bacteria just for the hell of it to see how low he could go.
My takeaway is that this guy probably enjoys life more than most people-- he seems to know exactly who he is and seems to be pretty awesome at being that person.
posted by what of it at 6:02 PM on August 7, 2015 [11 favorites]
Yeah, can't overstate how much better my hair is without shampoo. And what's funny is that I shampooed once after forever and my head went immediately back to flipping out with super oils. It's weird.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 6:10 PM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 6:10 PM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
I shampooed once after forever and my head went immediately back to flipping out with super oils. It's weird.
Terrifying you mean.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:11 PM on August 7, 2015
Terrifying you mean.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:11 PM on August 7, 2015
I haven't used shampoo in several years, barring the occasions where something like old motor oil gets in there. My hair and scalp are not greasy, I rinse and condition about once a week.
AOBiome interests me as a non-antiperspirant deodorant user also of several years, and markkraft my experience with personal scent as an attractant is also overwhelmingly positive— wordshore, I have politely declined all requests to bottle my sweat.
When I lived in a colder, drier climate I would shower once or twice weekly with no ill effects, and my activities included cycling and rock climbing. I live somewhere warmer and more humid now and I can't stand the feeling of sticky, sweaty skin so I rinse in the shower 2-3 times daily, plus a couple more just for my face. Going completely waterless in my current cleansing ritual is a dealbreaker.
also I hope that guy had a fecal transplant at the ready because DEAR CHEESUS how are you going to live without gut flora
posted by a halcyon day at 6:40 PM on August 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
AOBiome interests me as a non-antiperspirant deodorant user also of several years, and markkraft my experience with personal scent as an attractant is also overwhelmingly positive— wordshore, I have politely declined all requests to bottle my sweat.
When I lived in a colder, drier climate I would shower once or twice weekly with no ill effects, and my activities included cycling and rock climbing. I live somewhere warmer and more humid now and I can't stand the feeling of sticky, sweaty skin so I rinse in the shower 2-3 times daily, plus a couple more just for my face. Going completely waterless in my current cleansing ritual is a dealbreaker.
also I hope that guy had a fecal transplant at the ready because DEAR CHEESUS how are you going to live without gut flora
posted by a halcyon day at 6:40 PM on August 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
The alternative to this is the staphylococcus bacteria that many if not most people have living on their skin? Because this may not be as odd as it is seems.
posted by sebastienbailard at 6:45 PM on August 7, 2015
posted by sebastienbailard at 6:45 PM on August 7, 2015
This guy is starting to make me believe that Andy Kauffman may actually be alive.
posted by 4ster at 6:48 PM on August 7, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by 4ster at 6:48 PM on August 7, 2015 [10 favorites]
I am a guy who is blessed with a generally non-stinky body. I shower daily and the only deodorant I use is a bit of baking soda to the armpits. I started researching once why this works and got distracted somewhere around the introduction of the term 'amphoteric' and gave up.
Point is: I don't do traditional deodorant and I don't have a problem with body odor, so I think I'm the target market for this kind of thing. I'm all about experimenting with the bacteria on my body, why not?
Oh right, cost. Someone call me when this stuff is as cheap as baking soda and I'll give it a try.
posted by komara at 6:49 PM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Point is: I don't do traditional deodorant and I don't have a problem with body odor, so I think I'm the target market for this kind of thing. I'm all about experimenting with the bacteria on my body, why not?
Oh right, cost. Someone call me when this stuff is as cheap as baking soda and I'll give it a try.
posted by komara at 6:49 PM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Once you have a bottle with a colony of it, can't you keep it going just like a sourdough starter, feeding it dilute ammonia?
posted by sebastienbailard at 6:53 PM on August 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by sebastienbailard at 6:53 PM on August 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
No you just whiz in it to conserve water.
posted by uncleozzy at 6:55 PM on August 7, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 6:55 PM on August 7, 2015 [6 favorites]
What an amazing smell you've discovered!
posted by The Tensor at 7:06 PM on August 7, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by The Tensor at 7:06 PM on August 7, 2015 [10 favorites]
To avoid dishes and their subsequent water usage I poured my Soylent one meal at a time in to a polystyrene cup, which takes less than 1L of water to make . . . . If there’s anything as amazing as water it’s petroleum. My clothing and dishes take less water to make than they do to clean.
I was going to make a crack about how I refuse to support the petroleum economy by buying gasoline but fortunately I noticed that when you buy a car it's already full of gas so I buy a new car whenever the tank runs dry and donate the old one but then I realized that's barely middlin'-crazy by the standard we're seeing here.
posted by George_Spiggott at 7:08 PM on August 7, 2015 [26 favorites]
I was going to make a crack about how I refuse to support the petroleum economy by buying gasoline but fortunately I noticed that when you buy a car it's already full of gas so I buy a new car whenever the tank runs dry and donate the old one but then I realized that's barely middlin'-crazy by the standard we're seeing here.
posted by George_Spiggott at 7:08 PM on August 7, 2015 [26 favorites]
You guys let's just all have gladiators rub us down daily with olive oil. The sexier among us can resell it at a profit.
posted by Hypatia at 7:10 PM on August 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Hypatia at 7:10 PM on August 7, 2015 [4 favorites]
I read a review of AOBiome several months ago, and decided to try no soap/'poo. It works really well. In the summer I shower daily and fingernail scrub where needed. In the winter I shower 1-3x/wk. My hair is short, so I scrub it with a brush once a week before showering.
How do I know I don't stink? I'm a middle school teacher. There are no more odor-intolerant beings on the planet than children age 11-17.
posted by toodleydoodley at 7:16 PM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
How do I know I don't stink? I'm a middle school teacher. There are no more odor-intolerant beings on the planet than children age 11-17.
posted by toodleydoodley at 7:16 PM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
I haven't worn deodorant since 1994. Coworkers and friends are astounded when I tell them that not only do I not wear deodorant, I shower every other or every third day. Guess I'm lucky.
posted by schyler523 at 7:17 PM on August 7, 2015
posted by schyler523 at 7:17 PM on August 7, 2015
how much water does he think it takes to wash a glass
hint: it is not 1 L
who am I kidding this dude has never washed a glass in his life
posted by kagredon at 7:18 PM on August 7, 2015 [11 favorites]
hint: it is not 1 L
who am I kidding this dude has never washed a glass in his life
posted by kagredon at 7:18 PM on August 7, 2015 [11 favorites]
I'm dirty and rarely use soap or shampoo, I've used deodorant maybe 5 times in my life (I'm 42) and not in at least 20 years, and I don't stink at all. In fact, everyone I've ever slept with has commented on my lack of BO.
Now of course it might be just luck, but there might also be something to the idea that soaps, shampoos, and deodorants aren't always as productive as we've long assumed...
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:38 PM on August 7, 2015
Now of course it might be just luck, but there might also be something to the idea that soaps, shampoos, and deodorants aren't always as productive as we've long assumed...
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:38 PM on August 7, 2015
(I do have a bidet, though, and it. is. awesome. Can't understand why they don't catch on in the States.)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:39 PM on August 7, 2015
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:39 PM on August 7, 2015
eating and bathing are two of the things I like about life.
posted by nanojath at 7:49 PM on August 7, 2015 [23 favorites]
posted by nanojath at 7:49 PM on August 7, 2015 [23 favorites]
This is directly out of some science fiction novel. I want to say Bruce Sterling.
posted by ryanrs at 7:49 PM on August 7, 2015
posted by ryanrs at 7:49 PM on August 7, 2015
It's the end of germ theory as we know it, and I feel...confused.
posted by unknowncommand at 8:13 PM on August 7, 2015
posted by unknowncommand at 8:13 PM on August 7, 2015
Hey hippiebear...
I didn't say anything that advocated daily bathing. Or at least, I didn't think I did.
I just said that using something to make you not smell bad is not *remotely* the same thing as being clean.
And that the general *point* of taking a shower is to get clean. The whole not-smelling-bad thing is really kind of a side effect.
So, yeah. Putting stuff on to not smell bad doesn't mean you won't still get horribly greased up skin and dirt and schmutz and all kinda other things.
And heaven forbid you do anything with chili peppers... :-)
posted by jefflowrey at 8:30 PM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
I didn't say anything that advocated daily bathing. Or at least, I didn't think I did.
I just said that using something to make you not smell bad is not *remotely* the same thing as being clean.
And that the general *point* of taking a shower is to get clean. The whole not-smelling-bad thing is really kind of a side effect.
So, yeah. Putting stuff on to not smell bad doesn't mean you won't still get horribly greased up skin and dirt and schmutz and all kinda other things.
And heaven forbid you do anything with chili peppers... :-)
posted by jefflowrey at 8:30 PM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
I have probably the same derma problems that Hippybear has, and my OCD won't let me skip showers. Plus I commute by bicycle. The only thing that clears my skin up are antibiotics. If he could somehow turn this into an effective soap that is used in a shower, I will give him $49.
posted by Brocktoon at 8:31 PM on August 7, 2015
posted by Brocktoon at 8:31 PM on August 7, 2015
Back when he’d lived with his mom up on Floor 41, Lyle had used old-fashioned antiseptic deodorants. Lyle had wised up about a lot of things once he’d escaped his mom’s condo. Nowadays, Lyle used a gel roll-on of skin-friendly bacteria that greedily devoured human sweat and exuded as their metabolic byproduct a pleasantly harmless reek rather like ripe bananas. Life was a lot easier when you came to proper terms with your microscopic flora.
"Bicycle Repairman" by Bruce Sterling
posted by ryanrs at 8:36 PM on August 7, 2015 [15 favorites]
"Bicycle Repairman" by Bruce Sterling
posted by ryanrs at 8:36 PM on August 7, 2015 [15 favorites]
I was always dubious about the crystal antiperspirant because it's marketed as an alternative to aluminum-based products but still contains aluminum, just in a different compound, potassium alum.
I haven't done the homework to determine if any aluminum compound used in either solids or crystal is more toxic or bioavailable than the other, in the way that aluminum chloride is acutely neurotoxic, but aluminum in any form isn't really desirable if it bioaccumulates anywhere in living tissues.
posted by aydeejones at 8:38 PM on August 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
I haven't done the homework to determine if any aluminum compound used in either solids or crystal is more toxic or bioavailable than the other, in the way that aluminum chloride is acutely neurotoxic, but aluminum in any form isn't really desirable if it bioaccumulates anywhere in living tissues.
posted by aydeejones at 8:38 PM on August 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
eating and bathing are two of the things I like about life
We live part of the year in rural Japan and we head off to a hot spring every weekend. Heavenly.
posted by Nevin at 8:47 PM on August 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
We live part of the year in rural Japan and we head off to a hot spring every weekend. Heavenly.
posted by Nevin at 8:47 PM on August 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
I miss the hot spring bathing in YNP sooo much.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:50 PM on August 7, 2015
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:50 PM on August 7, 2015
BOYCOTT SHAMPOO
DEMAND REAL POO
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 8:59 PM on August 7, 2015 [23 favorites]
DEMAND REAL POO
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 8:59 PM on August 7, 2015 [23 favorites]
So. The point of bathing is to *smell* good, not *get clean*.
Yeah. Sure, uh huh.
I live in Florida. I took three showers today; not because I got dirty three times, but because I walked outside long enough (~10 minutes) to get grossly sweaty and stinky before wanting to be suitable for human company three times. Seems like a great idea to me. The only thing that would improve it is being able to spray it on other people.
posted by bracems at 9:06 PM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah. Sure, uh huh.
I live in Florida. I took three showers today; not because I got dirty three times, but because I walked outside long enough (~10 minutes) to get grossly sweaty and stinky before wanting to be suitable for human company three times. Seems like a great idea to me. The only thing that would improve it is being able to spray it on other people.
posted by bracems at 9:06 PM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
I mean, the human body has more bacteria in it and on it than it does human cells. A few more won't hurt.
Well...
posted by dirigibleman at 9:33 PM on August 7, 2015
Well...
posted by dirigibleman at 9:33 PM on August 7, 2015
Wait, people use soap on their bodies? I unconsciously stopped using soap years ago--I hate that "squeaky clean" feeling it leaves me with. I use a mild facial cleanser instead.
posted by mantecol at 9:36 PM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by mantecol at 9:36 PM on August 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
christ almighty does this nimrod actually think that polymer plants operate with 0 water waste
Also, he apparently hasn't heard of water injection into oil wells. Most of Saudi wouldn't be producing without an increasingly large amount of water per barrel of oil to make the oil float where the rigs are and bump up slackening underground pressures.
posted by jaduncan at 9:39 PM on August 7, 2015
Also, he apparently hasn't heard of water injection into oil wells. Most of Saudi wouldn't be producing without an increasingly large amount of water per barrel of oil to make the oil float where the rigs are and bump up slackening underground pressures.
posted by jaduncan at 9:39 PM on August 7, 2015
FYI Wiki:
Water injection (oil production)
Water injection or water flooding refers to the method in the oil industry where water is injected into the reservoir, usually to increase pressure and thereby stimulate production. Water injection wells can be found both on- and offshore, to increase oil recovery from an existing reservoir.
Water is injected (1) to support pressure of the reservoir (also known as voidage replacement), and (2) to sweep or displace oil from the reservoir, and push it towards a well.
Normally only 30% of the oil in a reservoir can be extracted, but water injection increases that percentage (known as the recovery factor) and maintains the production rate of a reservoir over a longer period.
posted by jaduncan at 9:41 PM on August 7, 2015
Water injection (oil production)
Water injection or water flooding refers to the method in the oil industry where water is injected into the reservoir, usually to increase pressure and thereby stimulate production. Water injection wells can be found both on- and offshore, to increase oil recovery from an existing reservoir.
Water is injected (1) to support pressure of the reservoir (also known as voidage replacement), and (2) to sweep or displace oil from the reservoir, and push it towards a well.
Normally only 30% of the oil in a reservoir can be extracted, but water injection increases that percentage (known as the recovery factor) and maintains the production rate of a reservoir over a longer period.
posted by jaduncan at 9:41 PM on August 7, 2015
I found a Nomex flight suit on Alibaba and added a “Soylent” patch
speedsuit. it's called a speedsuit guys.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:14 PM on August 7, 2015 [11 favorites]
speedsuit. it's called a speedsuit guys.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:14 PM on August 7, 2015 [11 favorites]
Can't wait for this guy to go full Blood Music it's gonna be epic.
posted by turbid dahlia at 10:30 PM on August 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by turbid dahlia at 10:30 PM on August 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
I love showers and I love meals. They're pretty much my favorite parts of the day.
I guess that the next thing on this guy's list is an efficient replacement for sex. Hormones that inhibit sex drive, perhaps?
posted by painquale at 10:57 PM on August 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
I guess that the next thing on this guy's list is an efficient replacement for sex. Hormones that inhibit sex drive, perhaps?
posted by painquale at 10:57 PM on August 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
Selling it at a hacker conference seems simultaneously the right move because that's your target market (at least at this early stage) but also kind of terrible because if there's one place where more showering should be encouraged not less, it's at a nerd convention in the middle of a fucking desert.
posted by sparkletone at 11:28 PM on August 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by sparkletone at 11:28 PM on August 7, 2015 [7 favorites]
Rifaximin doesn't actually kill all of your gut bacteria, fwiw.
posted by en forme de poire at 11:29 PM on August 7, 2015
posted by en forme de poire at 11:29 PM on August 7, 2015
Also, I mean, the idea of skin probiotics is not crazy - several skin microbes can outcompete S. aureus, for instance, which means they could be particularly valuable for preventing infections like MRSA. But this particular strain isn't even part of the normal human skin flora. It's not even in the same phylum as most of the major contemporary players (it's in Proteobacteria, whereas our skin flora tend to be mostly Actinobacteria and Firmicutes). Even looking at skin flora from actual hunter-gatherers you don't seem to see Nitrosomonas. So billing this product as some kind of return to a natural state seems super unsupported to me.
Scott reports that AOBiome has chosen the cosmetic route for its initial foray in order to get around the much tougher and much longer regulatory requirements for medical applications. It is hoping to use revenue from the Mist to finance research on drug products.
This, though, I totally believe.
posted by en forme de poire at 12:03 AM on August 8, 2015 [19 favorites]
Scott reports that AOBiome has chosen the cosmetic route for its initial foray in order to get around the much tougher and much longer regulatory requirements for medical applications. It is hoping to use revenue from the Mist to finance research on drug products.
This, though, I totally believe.
posted by en forme de poire at 12:03 AM on August 8, 2015 [19 favorites]
Well 'normal' skin flora may not be the skin flora we had before soap. For example, hunter gatherers have totally different gut flora.
posted by gryftir at 12:37 AM on August 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by gryftir at 12:37 AM on August 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yeah, but the link that I provided looked at skin flora from hunter gatherers, and those also didn't seem to include any Nitrosomonas. The only Proteobacteria I saw in that report were Neisseria.
posted by en forme de poire at 12:40 AM on August 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by en forme de poire at 12:40 AM on August 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
Jon Mitchell: "He is clearly operating some sort of incredible long form troll, this man who wishes his consumers to pay to spray themselves with dirt and funnel vaguely nutritional ooze into their mouths."
His blog confuses me. High Frequency Dating is clearly a joke, but How I gave up Alternating Current and Life without Water are just about plausible despite their crazy ideas (buying cheap t-shirts, and replacing them away once they're dirty because of disliking laundry; using antibiotics to kill your gut microbiome and stop defecating; etc.).
posted by James Scott-Brown at 12:49 AM on August 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
His blog confuses me. High Frequency Dating is clearly a joke, but How I gave up Alternating Current and Life without Water are just about plausible despite their crazy ideas (buying cheap t-shirts, and replacing them away once they're dirty because of disliking laundry; using antibiotics to kill your gut microbiome and stop defecating; etc.).
posted by James Scott-Brown at 12:49 AM on August 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Rifaximin doesn't actually kill all of your gut bacteria, fwiw.
Yes, exactly, I’ve taken Rifaximin when I needed it, it balances gut bacteria, it’s a selective antibiotic killing off of excess nasty bacteria causing problems (small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, traveller’s diarrhoea, etc.), it is even taken in recurring cycles or even daily permanently in specific serious conditions (diverticulitis, hepatic encephalopathy or something). It doesn’t stop you needing to flush the toilet. It stops you from either needing to flush it too much, or too little...
So the idea itself of getting Rifaximin to stop flushing the toilet is a) crazy and b) scientifically unfounded. Pure bullshit literally.
Some of the comments on his blog on that are even crazier: "Personally, I believe the whole microbiome thing is just a sham invented to sell probiotics & yogurt. If I could completely wipe-out my gut-flora I would do it in a heartbeat. Any recommendations other than Rifaximin?" Yeah, like, try death? Gut bacteria are part of our bodies, of the immune system, they are being studied increasingly for all the potentially amazing stuff they can affect, there is no such thing as wiping them out completely even if that were a desirable outcome which it is NOT, even the most powerful penicillin based antibiotic killing off most bacteria won’t kill them all, it will just screw things up and make more room for bad bacteria like c. difficile and then you and we all have a serious problem. Like, potentially lethal, infectious, etc.. Not to mention abusing antibiotics when not needed contributes to antibiotic resistance, so you’re creating MORE problems to public health and enviromment.
Well done to the "Soylent’s microbiome consultant" for telling him it’s a terrible idea, but what about the doctor who prescribed the Rifaximin just for the purpose of this stupid experiment? should be reported to the medical association, seriously.
And the problem of water supplies is not going to be solved by individual changes in consumption alone, it’s an envinromental and economic and political issue on a global scale, we’re supposed to deal with that through political representation and organisation. It’s so so maddening to see it brought down to the level of individual choices of a few eccentric people who can afford to play games and experiments and blog about it. (Ask the guys who collect your trash or built your house if they can afford to not shower after a day’s work). People across the world who only have running water three hours a day or no access to tap water at all are not going to give a shit literally about how often you shower or flush the toilet in your fancy home on the other side of the world. You’re not going to solve the local problem in California either by not showering and flushing your toilet.
And unlike changing light bulbs or sorting and recycling trash, that is not the kind of thing that is ever remotely likely to reach critical mass. If you care so much and have the time and energy to put your mind to it, get involved through existing political means and organisations. There are already groups of people working on this! like, in this thing we have called a society!
Damn this individualist bullshit gets on my nerves so much, I want to run the tap for three hours just to offset the smug self satisfaction of this guy.
The Soylent food idea is not a bad idea itself, potentially, but look at the ingredients! there are already many products like that, existing nutritional replacement products - not the kind used by astronauts that sound cool and fancy and futuristic but the kind used medically for nutrition of people with conditions that prevent normal feeding, those big bad evil brands like Nestle and in pharma are already producing solutions like that, and unlike your fancy product they’ve been in use and tested for decades and regularly subjected to clinical trials, only they are expensive because they have a relatively small market compared to say milk obviously... But no, of course, you’re so clever you have to reinvent the wheel and call it something fancy and sci-fi and start your own fancy small non-evil company and be famous, well done you!
posted by bitteschoen at 12:55 AM on August 8, 2015 [24 favorites]
Yes, exactly, I’ve taken Rifaximin when I needed it, it balances gut bacteria, it’s a selective antibiotic killing off of excess nasty bacteria causing problems (small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, traveller’s diarrhoea, etc.), it is even taken in recurring cycles or even daily permanently in specific serious conditions (diverticulitis, hepatic encephalopathy or something). It doesn’t stop you needing to flush the toilet. It stops you from either needing to flush it too much, or too little...
So the idea itself of getting Rifaximin to stop flushing the toilet is a) crazy and b) scientifically unfounded. Pure bullshit literally.
Some of the comments on his blog on that are even crazier: "Personally, I believe the whole microbiome thing is just a sham invented to sell probiotics & yogurt. If I could completely wipe-out my gut-flora I would do it in a heartbeat. Any recommendations other than Rifaximin?" Yeah, like, try death? Gut bacteria are part of our bodies, of the immune system, they are being studied increasingly for all the potentially amazing stuff they can affect, there is no such thing as wiping them out completely even if that were a desirable outcome which it is NOT, even the most powerful penicillin based antibiotic killing off most bacteria won’t kill them all, it will just screw things up and make more room for bad bacteria like c. difficile and then you and we all have a serious problem. Like, potentially lethal, infectious, etc.. Not to mention abusing antibiotics when not needed contributes to antibiotic resistance, so you’re creating MORE problems to public health and enviromment.
Well done to the "Soylent’s microbiome consultant" for telling him it’s a terrible idea, but what about the doctor who prescribed the Rifaximin just for the purpose of this stupid experiment? should be reported to the medical association, seriously.
And the problem of water supplies is not going to be solved by individual changes in consumption alone, it’s an envinromental and economic and political issue on a global scale, we’re supposed to deal with that through political representation and organisation. It’s so so maddening to see it brought down to the level of individual choices of a few eccentric people who can afford to play games and experiments and blog about it. (Ask the guys who collect your trash or built your house if they can afford to not shower after a day’s work). People across the world who only have running water three hours a day or no access to tap water at all are not going to give a shit literally about how often you shower or flush the toilet in your fancy home on the other side of the world. You’re not going to solve the local problem in California either by not showering and flushing your toilet.
And unlike changing light bulbs or sorting and recycling trash, that is not the kind of thing that is ever remotely likely to reach critical mass. If you care so much and have the time and energy to put your mind to it, get involved through existing political means and organisations. There are already groups of people working on this! like, in this thing we have called a society!
Damn this individualist bullshit gets on my nerves so much, I want to run the tap for three hours just to offset the smug self satisfaction of this guy.
The Soylent food idea is not a bad idea itself, potentially, but look at the ingredients! there are already many products like that, existing nutritional replacement products - not the kind used by astronauts that sound cool and fancy and futuristic but the kind used medically for nutrition of people with conditions that prevent normal feeding, those big bad evil brands like Nestle and in pharma are already producing solutions like that, and unlike your fancy product they’ve been in use and tested for decades and regularly subjected to clinical trials, only they are expensive because they have a relatively small market compared to say milk obviously... But no, of course, you’re so clever you have to reinvent the wheel and call it something fancy and sci-fi and start your own fancy small non-evil company and be famous, well done you!
posted by bitteschoen at 12:55 AM on August 8, 2015 [24 favorites]
I guess that the next thing on this guy's list is an efficient replacement for sex.
I don't see why this would be a priority - we already have one that's super efficient and uses hardly any water at all.
posted by Dr Dracator at 1:50 AM on August 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
I don't see why this would be a priority - we already have one that's super efficient and uses hardly any water at all.
posted by Dr Dracator at 1:50 AM on August 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
"this particular strain isn't even part of the normal human skin flora. It's not even in the same phylum as most of the major contemporary players"
You just know this guy is going to start playing around with Cordyceps soon, and trigger the zombie apocalypse.
posted by markkraft at 3:07 AM on August 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
You just know this guy is going to start playing around with Cordyceps soon, and trigger the zombie apocalypse.
posted by markkraft at 3:07 AM on August 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
There's nothing virtuous about the unpleasant things in life, and it's weirdly self-righteous (in that there's nothing to the argument except smugness) to judge other people for wanting to make their lives better. I would prefer not to shower, also not to eat when I don't feel like it - it makes sense to me that this guy would as well.
i bought Soylent, and it was disgusting, so I don't eat it. I would try the soap substitute, just like any other product that might make my life more comfortable without making the world worse.
posted by uninformative at 3:31 AM on August 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
i bought Soylent, and it was disgusting, so I don't eat it. I would try the soap substitute, just like any other product that might make my life more comfortable without making the world worse.
posted by uninformative at 3:31 AM on August 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
I'm usually down to a pretty minimal amount of soap in the shower myself, but one thing that I've noticed is that I will have to scrub over everything, multiple times in order to get gunky sunscreen off when I've been outdoors all day (unfortunately the non-gunky kind would probably be gone after 10 minutes of profuse sweating). Do the no-soap people in here use sunscreen, and if so how are you dealing with getting it off?
posted by indubitable at 4:42 AM on August 8, 2015
posted by indubitable at 4:42 AM on August 8, 2015
huh. i thought that pit and public hair was to camouflage stink smells from, like, lions, so the lions wouldn't be all *mmm ripe human two miles south*. So shave off armpit hair seems counterintuitive, stank factor wise.
Well, maybe armpit hair is only good for keeping the lions away. Or! Maybe it grosses the lions out. Anybody from cave people days in the thread that could speak to this?
posted by angrycat at 5:06 AM on August 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Well, maybe armpit hair is only good for keeping the lions away. Or! Maybe it grosses the lions out. Anybody from cave people days in the thread that could speak to this?
posted by angrycat at 5:06 AM on August 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Bog no scrape tiny underarm feathers and cause mammoth flint-burn. Bog carry club for Thundercat.
posted by valkane at 5:31 AM on August 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by valkane at 5:31 AM on August 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
I remember the New York Times story by Julia Scott on this from last year (also discussed on the blue).
posted by minervous at 5:42 AM on August 8, 2015
posted by minervous at 5:42 AM on August 8, 2015
Once again I'm reminded how my trade differs from the average Metafite. Not using soap in the shower would be a complete non-starter for me. Not because of smell but because of dirt. Grease. No-lox. STL. Carbon. Etc. Ad nauseum
posted by Mitheral at 6:32 AM on August 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by Mitheral at 6:32 AM on August 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
I guess that the next thing on this guy's list is an efficient replacement for sex.
Combine that with Provigil or something similar and you have the old SubGenius “Sex Food Sleeping Pills” advert made real.
posted by acb at 7:00 AM on August 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Combine that with Provigil or something similar and you have the old SubGenius “Sex Food Sleeping Pills” advert made real.
posted by acb at 7:00 AM on August 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm usually pretty firmly in the "people are different and like different things and that's OK" camp, but I'm still really surprised by the idea of people who don't relish the luxury of a hot shower. I'd rather skip coffee.
posted by straight at 7:20 AM on August 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by straight at 7:20 AM on August 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
I like hot showers, but my body doesn't. Until science figures out a way to prevent moisture loss from my skin, I'd totally consider this.
posted by thetortoise at 8:22 AM on August 8, 2015
posted by thetortoise at 8:22 AM on August 8, 2015
Hormones that inhibit sex drive, perhaps?
i feel like his first two inventions will automatically take care of this third "problem" in his life.
posted by poffin boffin at 8:27 AM on August 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
i feel like his first two inventions will automatically take care of this third "problem" in his life.
posted by poffin boffin at 8:27 AM on August 8, 2015 [4 favorites]
angrycat: huh. i thought that pit and public hair was to camouflage stink smells from, like, lions, so the lions wouldn't be all *mmm ripe human two miles south*. So shave off armpit hair seems counterintuitive, stank factor wise.
I had the same thinking all throughout my youth up until, like I said, a few years ago when my cousin, who works in the manliest of construction jobs and in the heat all day, told me to try shaving. I was, personally at least, completely wrong.
I now think of armpit hair as less like a secret compartment for BO to, voluntarily somehow, politely hide in and more of a jungle landscape where BO is the insurgents with a homefield advantage against any assault by the invading army [soap], deodorant [navy], and anti-antiperspirant [air force]. So I basically have to destroy the jungle/village to save it.
Anybody from cave people days in the thread that could speak to this?
But then again am not cave people, idea maybe no good.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:53 AM on August 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
I had the same thinking all throughout my youth up until, like I said, a few years ago when my cousin, who works in the manliest of construction jobs and in the heat all day, told me to try shaving. I was, personally at least, completely wrong.
I now think of armpit hair as less like a secret compartment for BO to, voluntarily somehow, politely hide in and more of a jungle landscape where BO is the insurgents with a homefield advantage against any assault by the invading army [soap], deodorant [navy], and anti-antiperspirant [air force]. So I basically have to destroy the jungle/village to save it.
Anybody from cave people days in the thread that could speak to this?
But then again am not cave people, idea maybe no good.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:53 AM on August 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Conversations like these, about no 'poo and stuff, are always weird for me. I tried no 'poo for over a month in graduate school. My hair just got greasier and greasier and more and more filled with dandruff. Internet communities kept telling me to wait longer, but then I started to get acne on my scalp and face something fierce (my mother has very oily skin and a scalp that's similarly acne prone). And huge chunks of gross dandruff, like cradle cap style. I just couldn't do it. The memory makes me feel crawly.
I suspect a big part of it is my combo heavily sweating and yeast/fungus prone skin. My feet, for example, are very very sweaty if I don't shower daily and because of that sweating, my feet blister easily. And since middle school, I've been prone to patches of tinea versicolor in hot weather. My sister and dad also had it, and once it starts, the only way to get rid of it is a nice dose of antifungal stuff. Nizoral shampoo works best, and also seems to kill any dandruff I have in one fell swoop. I once had a patch of tinea versicolor on my chest for years, until I finally went to the dermatologist and got some antifungal cream and it was gone in a few days.
When this stuff is mild--my occasional athlete's foot, for example--yes, vinegar works fine. But it doesn't seem to do a thing for my dandruff or skin funguses, and god knows I tried when I was doing no 'poo. For whatever reason, my system seems prone to these imbalances. I know better than to take an antibiotic, any antibiotic, without getting a diflucan, too.
All of this is better in cooler weather, in cooler climates. I suspect my pale, temperamental British skin--where I get this stuff from--is just not meant to simmer in hot weather. So the idea of spraying on some bacteria and having that be enough in the summer, well, I don't know, I'm skeptical.
Also this comment makes me sound super gross. Shrug.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:06 AM on August 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
I suspect a big part of it is my combo heavily sweating and yeast/fungus prone skin. My feet, for example, are very very sweaty if I don't shower daily and because of that sweating, my feet blister easily. And since middle school, I've been prone to patches of tinea versicolor in hot weather. My sister and dad also had it, and once it starts, the only way to get rid of it is a nice dose of antifungal stuff. Nizoral shampoo works best, and also seems to kill any dandruff I have in one fell swoop. I once had a patch of tinea versicolor on my chest for years, until I finally went to the dermatologist and got some antifungal cream and it was gone in a few days.
When this stuff is mild--my occasional athlete's foot, for example--yes, vinegar works fine. But it doesn't seem to do a thing for my dandruff or skin funguses, and god knows I tried when I was doing no 'poo. For whatever reason, my system seems prone to these imbalances. I know better than to take an antibiotic, any antibiotic, without getting a diflucan, too.
All of this is better in cooler weather, in cooler climates. I suspect my pale, temperamental British skin--where I get this stuff from--is just not meant to simmer in hot weather. So the idea of spraying on some bacteria and having that be enough in the summer, well, I don't know, I'm skeptical.
Also this comment makes me sound super gross. Shrug.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:06 AM on August 8, 2015 [10 favorites]
Also I always thought that pit hair and pubes are there to trap and amplify sexy sexy BO smells to make us smell like nice, feral mates. Shaving--or even trimming--has always reduced smells for me.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:07 AM on August 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:07 AM on August 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
In Gaiman/Pratchet's 'Good Omens', one of the contemporary manifestations of Famine (the Horseman, yo) is a food mogul whose product is a zero-calorie food. So he literally markets people into starving themselves to death.
So maybe keep a sharp eye on this Soylent individual.
posted by j_curiouser at 11:30 AM on August 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
So maybe keep a sharp eye on this Soylent individual.
posted by j_curiouser at 11:30 AM on August 8, 2015 [7 favorites]
Frankly, the thought of doing any labor that doesn't involve coding makes me break out into hives. And I should mention the UI (user interface) of most washing machines and dryers disgusts me; clearly, this is an industry in need of a Laundry Solution from my talented and forward-thinking peers.
posted by Countess Elena at 12:23 PM on August 8, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 12:23 PM on August 8, 2015 [14 favorites]
I read through the link several times and still did not get the reference to how long the challenge was supposed to last. If it was only one day I can see going without shoes but not messing with the gut flora-- that is bizarre. There are other ways of not pooing for a day if you think that really fulfills the challenge. Personally I think it is a cheat-- sooner or later you will have to defecate and that should be taken into consideration when comparing your daily water usage vs. other people.
He really dropped the ball with his virtual water usage. He took into consideration the manufacturing but not the bottling and packaging and shipping. Again, I think it is cheating to order a new outfit, wear it one day and compare your water usage to that of others.
He says he peed into the sink all day. If he did not run the tap to clear the pipes I'm guessing that sink stunk to high heaven by the end of the day.
Finally, I'm glad I did not shake his hand during his challenge; there is more reason to wash yourself then just to remove the smell. By the end of the day I imagine his hands covered in body secretions, dirt, dust, food, and other particulate matter. Hope he didn't have to change the kitty box.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:36 PM on August 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
He really dropped the ball with his virtual water usage. He took into consideration the manufacturing but not the bottling and packaging and shipping. Again, I think it is cheating to order a new outfit, wear it one day and compare your water usage to that of others.
He says he peed into the sink all day. If he did not run the tap to clear the pipes I'm guessing that sink stunk to high heaven by the end of the day.
Finally, I'm glad I did not shake his hand during his challenge; there is more reason to wash yourself then just to remove the smell. By the end of the day I imagine his hands covered in body secretions, dirt, dust, food, and other particulate matter. Hope he didn't have to change the kitty box.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:36 PM on August 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
You can actually wipe out the gut microbiome sorta-completely (people do this to assess whether some effect they see is mediated by bacteria) but it requires big doses of multiple serious antibiotics and it has bad side effects (imagine taking cefalex, vancomycin, TMP/SMX etc all at once!), not to mention leaving you super vulnerable to things like C. diff.
posted by en forme de poire at 2:18 PM on August 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by en forme de poire at 2:18 PM on August 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
In organic gardening you can make or buy compost tea in order to introduce nice bacteria to your soil. As long as their biome is healthy the plants will be healthy. The idea makes sense, just a shame about the guy..
posted by yoHighness at 2:32 PM on August 8, 2015
posted by yoHighness at 2:32 PM on August 8, 2015
Now that I have had a chance to think about it this guy's response to the challenge is making me crazy because it is so half-assed.
He said he brushed his teeth without water. He fails to mention if he used toothpaste. I fail to see how using toothpaste is different from using deodorant; even if he spit it out he still comsumed a product that required water to manufacture, package, and ship. If he didn't use any toothpaste--eww!
He also didn't mention buying plastic sheets to replace his cotton ones; I guess that's a step too far. However he also didn't bother to mention if he washed his feet before getting into bed after a whole day running around barefoot. This guy lives alone, right?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:33 PM on August 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
He said he brushed his teeth without water. He fails to mention if he used toothpaste. I fail to see how using toothpaste is different from using deodorant; even if he spit it out he still comsumed a product that required water to manufacture, package, and ship. If he didn't use any toothpaste--eww!
He also didn't mention buying plastic sheets to replace his cotton ones; I guess that's a step too far. However he also didn't bother to mention if he washed his feet before getting into bed after a whole day running around barefoot. This guy lives alone, right?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:33 PM on August 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
teponaztli, how long did you give the no soap/shampoo? It takes a while to see the benefits, for some longer than others. If you didn't go for at least 5-6 weeks, you probably don't really know.
It's kind of all-or-nothing too -- for me at least, using soap now anywhere I have hair (which is everywhere except my hands) means I will be really stinky for a day or two
If you think you can't go non-soap because of actual dirt: use a little coconut oil on a facecloth. Most shampoos & body washes are derived from coconut oil, but using straight coconut oil does not seem to disturb the skin like shampoo/soap.
Like others have found, after an adjustment period I have less BO when not using soap/shampoo, according to other people than myself. However, when I cut out soap I had already mostly solved my (bad) BO problem by switching to zinc-oxide based deodorant, which you use only once a week.
posted by lastobelus at 2:03 AM on August 9, 2015
It's kind of all-or-nothing too -- for me at least, using soap now anywhere I have hair (which is everywhere except my hands) means I will be really stinky for a day or two
If you think you can't go non-soap because of actual dirt: use a little coconut oil on a facecloth. Most shampoos & body washes are derived from coconut oil, but using straight coconut oil does not seem to disturb the skin like shampoo/soap.
Like others have found, after an adjustment period I have less BO when not using soap/shampoo, according to other people than myself. However, when I cut out soap I had already mostly solved my (bad) BO problem by switching to zinc-oxide based deodorant, which you use only once a week.
posted by lastobelus at 2:03 AM on August 9, 2015
If he didn't use any toothpaste--eww!
IANADentist, but I seem to recall my dentist telling me the main purpose of brushing your teeth is mechanical cleaning, the toothpaste is there mostly to make you feel clean and fresh. Not that I'd skip it ( I am firmly in the clutches of the toothpaste-industrial complex), but I can see how removing the tiny bits of decaying food would be 80% of the work.
posted by Dr Dracator at 3:37 AM on August 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
IANADentist, but I seem to recall my dentist telling me the main purpose of brushing your teeth is mechanical cleaning, the toothpaste is there mostly to make you feel clean and fresh. Not that I'd skip it ( I am firmly in the clutches of the toothpaste-industrial complex), but I can see how removing the tiny bits of decaying food would be 80% of the work.
posted by Dr Dracator at 3:37 AM on August 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Well I thought it through before posting, Dr. Dracator and if we take him at his word that he used no water it would be a dry brush in a dry mouth. I am not fond of morning breath and the idea of a dry brush removing some plaque build-up doesn't sound refreshing. I would think that without gargling or at least using a bit of water to swish around you would still have all of that nasty bacteria that tastes so unpleasant.
I keep going back to camping. In camping you don't limit your water (usually-- I've never camped in a desert.) So there is water for washing your face, hands, feet, and pits, water for brushing your teeth, water for rinsing out your food containers and utensils. And I have never heard of anyone hiking in bare feet all day and then getting into their sleeping bag with their dirty feet.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:55 AM on August 9, 2015
I keep going back to camping. In camping you don't limit your water (usually-- I've never camped in a desert.) So there is water for washing your face, hands, feet, and pits, water for brushing your teeth, water for rinsing out your food containers and utensils. And I have never heard of anyone hiking in bare feet all day and then getting into their sleeping bag with their dirty feet.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:55 AM on August 9, 2015
It takes a while to see the benefits, for some longer than others. If you didn't go for at least 5-6 weeks, you probably don't really know.
It also legitimately does not work for some people, myself included, and I think it's fair that if someone has decided it won't work for them then they should be able stop doing it without the thought that they have somehow "done it wrong". For example, after over a month of having a visible grease stain on my pillowcases and relentless acne along my hairline and inside/behind my ears, and so many breakouts on my scalp that brushing my hair caused bleeding, I think it's okay that I decided it wasn't for me, and that two more weeks of this greasy smelly hell probably wouldn't have made some miraculous difference.
posted by poffin boffin at 8:59 AM on August 9, 2015 [10 favorites]
It also legitimately does not work for some people, myself included, and I think it's fair that if someone has decided it won't work for them then they should be able stop doing it without the thought that they have somehow "done it wrong". For example, after over a month of having a visible grease stain on my pillowcases and relentless acne along my hairline and inside/behind my ears, and so many breakouts on my scalp that brushing my hair caused bleeding, I think it's okay that I decided it wasn't for me, and that two more weeks of this greasy smelly hell probably wouldn't have made some miraculous difference.
posted by poffin boffin at 8:59 AM on August 9, 2015 [10 favorites]
As an aside, I think there's also a far greater burden upon PoC to maintain a "clean" appearance than there is for white people. Calling a crusty hippyish white guy a "soap dodger" is miles away from the slurs people use to describe people with natural hair or who wear turbans, regardless of how often they bathe; the former is not really assumed to be the default setting for that race, but the latter very frequently is. This guy will always be "that eccentric white guy who 'hacked' his hygiene routine" and not "that dirty foreigner who has fulfilled all of society's most juvenile prejudices against his race".
posted by poffin boffin at 9:02 AM on August 9, 2015 [18 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 9:02 AM on August 9, 2015 [18 favorites]
People going the no-soap route for dry skin reasons, if you don't feel properly clean with just water then a light conditioner works pretty well at dissolving excess oil off your scalp, and sugar scrubs like this will get dirt off your skin without stripping the oil. You don't need to eschew cleaning products altogether (you can if you want to! But if it isn't working for you there are non-drying alternatives).
posted by tinkletown at 11:24 AM on August 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by tinkletown at 11:24 AM on August 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
poffin boffin, no doubt it doesn't work well for some people. Nonetheless, emotion aside, the way physical reality works is that if some process has a mean time to produce it's maximal result of say 4 weeks with a standard deviation of say 1.5 weeks, you can't say with confidence whether it has or has not worked for you without following it for at least 7 weeks. If you want to be really sure you'd want to go 9 weeks or more.
There's no judging or emotion involved with that. It's a fact of the material world, assuming you have no good reason to believe that the times don't follow a normal distribution.
I don't know what the actual normal distribution is for realizing the benefit of eliminating soap, but since a) it took 5 weeks for me (with ALL of the attendant reactions you describe) and b) I have no reason to assume I'm a significant outlier and c) the approx. 10 other people's experience I have read/heard about described it taking some single digit number of weeks I assume the median time is on the order of 3-5 weeks. And that's the median time, not the time to be 90% sure.
See how that works? It's not a judgement. It's just using basic reasoning about the material world.
posted by lastobelus at 11:49 AM on August 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
There's no judging or emotion involved with that. It's a fact of the material world, assuming you have no good reason to believe that the times don't follow a normal distribution.
I don't know what the actual normal distribution is for realizing the benefit of eliminating soap, but since a) it took 5 weeks for me (with ALL of the attendant reactions you describe) and b) I have no reason to assume I'm a significant outlier and c) the approx. 10 other people's experience I have read/heard about described it taking some single digit number of weeks I assume the median time is on the order of 3-5 weeks. And that's the median time, not the time to be 90% sure.
See how that works? It's not a judgement. It's just using basic reasoning about the material world.
posted by lastobelus at 11:49 AM on August 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Dunno about anyone else, but I don't have 3-5 weeks to be visibly dirty. I gotta introduce myself to people. You can get away with "Hi, sorry I can't shake hands, I have a cold," but "Hi, sorry about the smell, I'm going no-soap" is liable to make an impression that is difficult to shake. Maybe I can try it if I'm hiking the Appalachian Trail sometime.
posted by Countess Elena at 12:46 PM on August 9, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 12:46 PM on August 9, 2015 [6 favorites]
What's left for the guy to do? Start putting his urine through a water purifier, and drink that? Build himself a stillsuit?
Can we send him into space so as to keep him away from other people?
posted by bad grammar at 12:52 PM on August 9, 2015
Can we send him into space so as to keep him away from other people?
posted by bad grammar at 12:52 PM on August 9, 2015
See how that works? It's not a judgement. It's just using basic reasoning about the material world.
i think if you really give it some effort you could be even more condescending. you just have to believe in yourself.
posted by poffin boffin at 1:03 PM on August 9, 2015 [27 favorites]
i think if you really give it some effort you could be even more condescending. you just have to believe in yourself.
posted by poffin boffin at 1:03 PM on August 9, 2015 [27 favorites]
Ugh, is there any way I can say that I would love for there to be more research into skin probiotics for acne and other conditions without in any way shape or form coming across like I'm endorsing or supporting this guy?
posted by KathrynT at 3:17 PM on August 9, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by KathrynT at 3:17 PM on August 9, 2015 [7 favorites]
The natural smell of the human body is sweet and musky-- The fierce, feral reek of body odor is caused by the decomposition of fats in sweat and body oil. It's possible that Ammonia Oxidizing Bacteria would replace the stink-bombs on your skin surface.
In regards to zero water usage and all that gimmicky nonsense-- the fellow needs to get a real life.
posted by ohshenandoah at 12:44 PM on August 12, 2015
In regards to zero water usage and all that gimmicky nonsense-- the fellow needs to get a real life.
posted by ohshenandoah at 12:44 PM on August 12, 2015
Well, apparently it's easy to ridicule, but I've been very happy with the AOBiome/Mother Dirt products.
I am in my mid-30s, male, still have acne-prone skin, though that was somewhat helped for the past few years by avoiding Sodium Lauryl/Laureth Sulphate (by using Johnson's Baby Shampoo) and by using a Benzoyl Peroxide cleanser (which basically acts as a broad-spectrum antimicrobial, so it knocks out the comedogenic bacteria along with everything else.)
I had long ago switched to the 'crystal' deodorant which is a chunk of alum -- I have a really sensitive nose and didn't like added fragrances much.
I had never really had any success trying the no-soap/shampoo thing before. I'm currently somewhere between using their special cleanser and shampoo and using none at all. I'd been using the AOBIome spray after showering for months so far, and the really interesting thing is that unless I was expecting to get particularly sweaty (AND need to smell good), I was starting to be able to forego the crystal deodorant.
For me, the remarkable thing is that I have a lot less dryness and irritation -- and since a lot of acne is largely mediated by a inflammatory response, this seems to make my skin feel a lot better. I'm still figuring out how the hair is going to work out, but generally a clean washcloth and water does fine for the rest of the body.
Although I expect I will need less of the bacterial spray as time goes on with the no-soap/shampoo bathing, it's nice to have something that re-seeds the skin with the 'good' bacteria as opposed to some of the strains which probably contribute to bad smells. I'd be really disappointed if this stuff goes off the market.
posted by mmagin at 11:35 AM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
I am in my mid-30s, male, still have acne-prone skin, though that was somewhat helped for the past few years by avoiding Sodium Lauryl/Laureth Sulphate (by using Johnson's Baby Shampoo) and by using a Benzoyl Peroxide cleanser (which basically acts as a broad-spectrum antimicrobial, so it knocks out the comedogenic bacteria along with everything else.)
I had long ago switched to the 'crystal' deodorant which is a chunk of alum -- I have a really sensitive nose and didn't like added fragrances much.
I had never really had any success trying the no-soap/shampoo thing before. I'm currently somewhere between using their special cleanser and shampoo and using none at all. I'd been using the AOBIome spray after showering for months so far, and the really interesting thing is that unless I was expecting to get particularly sweaty (AND need to smell good), I was starting to be able to forego the crystal deodorant.
For me, the remarkable thing is that I have a lot less dryness and irritation -- and since a lot of acne is largely mediated by a inflammatory response, this seems to make my skin feel a lot better. I'm still figuring out how the hair is going to work out, but generally a clean washcloth and water does fine for the rest of the body.
Although I expect I will need less of the bacterial spray as time goes on with the no-soap/shampoo bathing, it's nice to have something that re-seeds the skin with the 'good' bacteria as opposed to some of the strains which probably contribute to bad smells. I'd be really disappointed if this stuff goes off the market.
posted by mmagin at 11:35 AM on August 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
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posted by poffin boffin at 4:04 PM on August 7, 2015 [100 favorites]