“My body knows it's time to say goodbye.”
November 29, 2015 9:02 PM Subscribe
Kobe Bryant to retire after this season. [Los Angeles Times]
Lakers All-Star guard Kobe Bryant announced that the current NBA season will be the final one of his storied career. "This season is all I have left to give," writes Bryant on The Players Tribune in a letter he opens directly to the sport itself with the words, "Dear Basketball." Bryant is in his 20th season, all with the Lakers since a draft-day trade in 1996 that sent Vlade Divac to the Charlotte Hornets in return for a 17-year old kid taken with the 13th overall pick. Bryant won five NBA titles. He was still playing at an elite level until April 2013 when he tore an Achilles' tendon. Knee and shoulder injuries have limited Bryant the last two seasons.
Dear Basketball
From the moment
I started rolling my dad’s tube socks
And shooting imaginary
Game-winning shots
In the Great Western Forum
I knew one thing was real:
I fell in love with you.
A love so deep I gave you my all —
From my mind & body
To my spirit & soul.
As a six-year-old boy
Deeply in love with you
I never saw the end of the tunnel.
I only saw myself
Running out of one.
And so I ran.
I ran up and down every court
After every loose ball for you.
You asked for my hustle
I gave you my heart
Because it came with so much more.
I played through the sweat and hurt
Not because challenge called me
But because YOU called me.
I did everything for YOU
Because that’s what you do
When someone makes you feel as
Alive as you’ve made me feel.
You gave a six-year-old boy his Laker dream
And I’ll always love you for it.
But I can’t love you obsessively for much longer.
This season is all I have left to give.
My heart can take the pounding
My mind can handle the grind
But my body knows it’s time to say goodbye.
And that’s OK.
I’m ready to let you go.
I want you to know now
So we both can savor every moment we have left together.
The good and the bad.
We have given each other
All that we have.
And we both know, no matter what I do next
I’ll always be that kid
With the rolled up socks
Garbage can in the corner
:05 seconds on the clock
Ball in my hands.
5 … 4 … 3 … 2 … 1
Love you always,
Kobe
“My body knows it's time to say goodbye.”
This line will get you out of most situations, tbh
posted by clockzero at 9:43 PM on November 29, 2015 [19 favorites]
This line will get you out of most situations, tbh
posted by clockzero at 9:43 PM on November 29, 2015 [19 favorites]
He's representative of a change in the game that caused me to lose interest in the NBA.
But that's just it. Kobe is already an antique, has been for years now, was outmoded even before he started getting bad. His 2009-10 Lakers championship teams were outliers, champions only because LeBron was stuck on terrible Cleveland teams and the Spurs were dealing with heavy injuries and the need to transition to a more fluid offense. Every championship team since Kobe's last ring has won via a strong passing game and fluid defense, because hero-ball is, for the foreseeable future, dead: too many teams have realized that the best player to make a shot is "whoever is open" and adjusted their offenses accordingly.
posted by mightygodking at 9:51 PM on November 29, 2015 [16 favorites]
But that's just it. Kobe is already an antique, has been for years now, was outmoded even before he started getting bad. His 2009-10 Lakers championship teams were outliers, champions only because LeBron was stuck on terrible Cleveland teams and the Spurs were dealing with heavy injuries and the need to transition to a more fluid offense. Every championship team since Kobe's last ring has won via a strong passing game and fluid defense, because hero-ball is, for the foreseeable future, dead: too many teams have realized that the best player to make a shot is "whoever is open" and adjusted their offenses accordingly.
posted by mightygodking at 9:51 PM on November 29, 2015 [16 favorites]
I feel like the channel of communication between athletes and their fans (maybe anyone of fame and their fans) is permanently tainted by overuse. And especially by overuse where a professional message-crafter is riding shotgun with the famous.
I think it only feels genuine when you get to see subconscious actions (eg within the live play of sport). The rest is just too turgid with stagecraft.
This, this is turgid like a black mamba.
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 11:40 PM on November 29, 2015
I think it only feels genuine when you get to see subconscious actions (eg within the live play of sport). The rest is just too turgid with stagecraft.
This, this is turgid like a black mamba.
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 11:40 PM on November 29, 2015
I like this. It feels honest.
posted by wemayfreeze at 11:50 PM on November 29, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by wemayfreeze at 11:50 PM on November 29, 2015 [9 favorites]
I really don't know anything about Kobe or his career or his history. I don't completely understand or appreciate basketball (as the always shortest one in class my experience with the game mostly leans towards the ball falling rather quickly and dangerously towards my face). But it's a good piece of writing. I like that.
posted by downtohisturtles at 12:05 AM on November 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 12:05 AM on November 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
It is a poem but it it is not a very good poem.
posted by vrakatar at 12:26 AM on November 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by vrakatar at 12:26 AM on November 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
Imagine if this was a letter to a lover. Certainly doesn't talk a lot about what he loves about them, other than what they can and did do for the author. I won't miss Kobe.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:33 AM on November 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:33 AM on November 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Shaq with a human resources degree
This is the year of reinventing yourself
No matter what it takes
The jack of all trades is upon us
When you can no longer
Dunk with perfect impunity
You have to play the game differently
Grab an organization degree
To top off the all star lunancy
And sit tight with middle aged comeback
posted by a lungful of dragon at 2:49 AM on November 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
This is the year of reinventing yourself
No matter what it takes
The jack of all trades is upon us
When you can no longer
Dunk with perfect impunity
You have to play the game differently
Grab an organization degree
To top off the all star lunancy
And sit tight with middle aged comeback
posted by a lungful of dragon at 2:49 AM on November 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
What is it with people who come into these threads and complain about "today's NBA"? Are they time travelers from 1998?
Kobe is already an antique, has been for years now, was outmoded even before he started getting bad.
Yes.
Also, don't blame Kobe, he's just doing Kobe. Blame the Lakers management for wanting names that sell jerseys (and to avoid a controversy) more than a quality team.
posted by selfnoise at 3:51 AM on November 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
Kobe is already an antique, has been for years now, was outmoded even before he started getting bad.
Yes.
Also, don't blame Kobe, he's just doing Kobe. Blame the Lakers management for wanting names that sell jerseys (and to avoid a controversy) more than a quality team.
posted by selfnoise at 3:51 AM on November 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
Laker ticket prices went up after Kobe announced his retirement. Apparently many people are interested in watching Kobe play really bad basketball. Also, Kobe not the only think wrong with the Lakers. This play wasn't in garbage time and didn't involve Kobe.
posted by rdr at 4:07 AM on November 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by rdr at 4:07 AM on November 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
"Knowing when to quit" is a skill some players, no matter how great they once were, never grasped.
Can't wait to see Peyton Manning averaging under 60 passer rating on Cleveland next year because he thinks the injuries will go away and he still has a couple more years in him because he's Peyton Manning and nobody dares tell him otherwise.
posted by lmfsilva at 4:19 AM on November 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Can't wait to see Peyton Manning averaging under 60 passer rating on Cleveland next year because he thinks the injuries will go away and he still has a couple more years in him because he's Peyton Manning and nobody dares tell him otherwise.
posted by lmfsilva at 4:19 AM on November 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'd assume that it's harder to quit when people are throwing millions of dollars at you to keep playing.
posted by octothorpe at 4:30 AM on November 30, 2015 [12 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 4:30 AM on November 30, 2015 [12 favorites]
The headline made me think that Bryant is preparing to regenerate like a Time Lord.
posted by sonascope at 5:04 AM on November 30, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by sonascope at 5:04 AM on November 30, 2015 [11 favorites]
Apparently many people are interested in watching Kobe play really bad basketball.
Lots of people go to Lakers games for reasons that have nothing to do with the actual game of basketball.
I don't know. Sometimes it's just about you and 16,000 of your closest friends jumping up in disbelief shouting "whooooooo!!!" Kobe gave me lots of those moments. It's finished. It's over. I'd rather just look forward. Give the team to Jeannie.
The headline made me think that Bryant is preparing to regenerate like a Time Lord.
It's 5:15am and this is already not the most far-fetched thing I've heard today.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:15 AM on November 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
Lots of people go to Lakers games for reasons that have nothing to do with the actual game of basketball.
I don't know. Sometimes it's just about you and 16,000 of your closest friends jumping up in disbelief shouting "whooooooo!!!" Kobe gave me lots of those moments. It's finished. It's over. I'd rather just look forward. Give the team to Jeannie.
The headline made me think that Bryant is preparing to regenerate like a Time Lord.
It's 5:15am and this is already not the most far-fetched thing I've heard today.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:15 AM on November 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
Alleged rapist
Uncoachable hog of balls
Now writes poetry
//mic drop.
posted by humanfont at 5:22 AM on November 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
Uncoachable hog of balls
Now writes poetry
//mic drop.
posted by humanfont at 5:22 AM on November 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
he didn’t inhabit his talent so much as angrily oversee it
posted by BigCalm at 5:30 AM on November 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by BigCalm at 5:30 AM on November 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
I'd assume that it's harder to quit when people are throwing millions of dollars at you to keep playing.
Specifically, 25 millions of dollars this year, making him the highest paid player in the NBA (a position he has held since 2009).
posted by Etrigan at 5:41 AM on November 30, 2015
Specifically, 25 millions of dollars this year, making him the highest paid player in the NBA (a position he has held since 2009).
posted by Etrigan at 5:41 AM on November 30, 2015
I prefer the old school technique of announcing your retirement when you actually retire rather than announcing during the season and forcing everyone to endure a near season long retirement lap of endless accolades. Unless the plan is to hog the spotlight from everyone else in the league.
posted by srboisvert at 5:45 AM on November 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 5:45 AM on November 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
FromSoft needs to make a Kobe game. Like, a 30 foot tall monster from the otherworld towers in front of Kobe, wiggling its bladed tentacles, vomiting poison from its trypophobia pods. The basketball goal is a half mile behind it, and this is the final iso to determine the fate of the universe.
posted by nom de poop at 5:49 AM on November 30, 2015
posted by nom de poop at 5:49 AM on November 30, 2015
Ah, the Jeter(tm)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:50 AM on November 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:50 AM on November 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
He's got to be close to having the record for most missed shots ever.
He already does and I think he might've set that a couple of years ago in fact.
posted by zempf at 6:16 AM on November 30, 2015
He already does and I think he might've set that a couple of years ago in fact.
posted by zempf at 6:16 AM on November 30, 2015
I prefer the old school technique of announcing your retirement when you actually retire rather than announcing during the season and forcing everyone to endure a near season long retirement lap of endless accolades.
Old-school players like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Julius Erving and Michael Jordan?
posted by Etrigan at 6:28 AM on November 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
Old-school players like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Julius Erving and Michael Jordan?
posted by Etrigan at 6:28 AM on November 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
You kind-of have to announce in advance any more, not so much for the victory lap but because your coaches and teammates need the lead time to plan their next moves and get their recruiting game in motion and start grooming bench players to step up.
And if you try to keep it a secret within your team, it just leads to months of speculation about whether you're retiring and if that's why your team is interviewing offensive coordinator who work with running teams, or suddenly heavily recruiting tallish point guards, or your teammates are all taking interviews in Indianapolis, or whatever. Which is actually way more distracting and puts a lot of people under unfair and stressful scrutiny.
Pretty common for even bench warmers to announce somewhat in advance these days, just to give everyone enough notice and to reduce the heat of speculation.
Not a big Kobe fan but don't think the retirement announcement is particularly self-aggrandizing, unless he changes his mind six times, in which case it's an irritating distraction rather than a courtesy.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:55 AM on November 30, 2015 [7 favorites]
And if you try to keep it a secret within your team, it just leads to months of speculation about whether you're retiring and if that's why your team is interviewing offensive coordinator who work with running teams, or suddenly heavily recruiting tallish point guards, or your teammates are all taking interviews in Indianapolis, or whatever. Which is actually way more distracting and puts a lot of people under unfair and stressful scrutiny.
Pretty common for even bench warmers to announce somewhat in advance these days, just to give everyone enough notice and to reduce the heat of speculation.
Not a big Kobe fan but don't think the retirement announcement is particularly self-aggrandizing, unless he changes his mind six times, in which case it's an irritating distraction rather than a courtesy.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:55 AM on November 30, 2015 [7 favorites]
For a poet, he's a great basketball player.
posted by pxe2000 at 6:56 AM on November 30, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by pxe2000 at 6:56 AM on November 30, 2015 [6 favorites]
I was in line right behind Kobe Bryant at Starbucks once.
posted by chrchr at 7:11 AM on November 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by chrchr at 7:11 AM on November 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Can't I just imagine it's a reflection on a career,
I was trying to use the analogy to showcase what I find to be the worst part of Kobe's personality as a player as well as a human being. He is selfish, arrogant, and focused on winning over everything else. He'll never be one of the all time greats because he drove all the best players away rather than finding ways to work with them, and I regret the effect he's had on the league and the game (not to mention the strong possibility that he is guilty of rape, or at least being an adulterous asshole). I hope Demarcus Cousins wins 7 rings, gives them all to Vlade Divacs, and retires via medieval wall tapestry and we never have to think about this ever again.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:11 AM on November 30, 2015
I was trying to use the analogy to showcase what I find to be the worst part of Kobe's personality as a player as well as a human being. He is selfish, arrogant, and focused on winning over everything else. He'll never be one of the all time greats because he drove all the best players away rather than finding ways to work with them, and I regret the effect he's had on the league and the game (not to mention the strong possibility that he is guilty of rape, or at least being an adulterous asshole). I hope Demarcus Cousins wins 7 rings, gives them all to Vlade Divacs, and retires via medieval wall tapestry and we never have to think about this ever again.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:11 AM on November 30, 2015
Oh, Players Tribune, you wonderful ghost-written personal brand manager for athletes. Oh you.
Last night, Kobe went 4-20 from the field (!!!), including this clutch jumper at the end. It's really difficult to understand why anyone would want to see a former great player be so spectacularly bad every night. As Drew Magary points out, maybe Kobe should just F off.
posted by mcstayinskool at 7:13 AM on November 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Last night, Kobe went 4-20 from the field (!!!), including this clutch jumper at the end. It's really difficult to understand why anyone would want to see a former great player be so spectacularly bad every night. As Drew Magary points out, maybe Kobe should just F off.
posted by mcstayinskool at 7:13 AM on November 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
He'll never be one of the all time greats
As much as I really can't stand the guy most nights, he is already one of the all time great basketball players ever. In the top tier of professional basketball, he has played for almost twenty years, holds numerous records, is third all time in scoring, and once scored 81 points in a game.
posted by cashman at 7:15 AM on November 30, 2015 [14 favorites]
As much as I really can't stand the guy most nights, he is already one of the all time great basketball players ever. In the top tier of professional basketball, he has played for almost twenty years, holds numerous records, is third all time in scoring, and once scored 81 points in a game.
posted by cashman at 7:15 AM on November 30, 2015 [14 favorites]
He is selfish, arrogant, and focused on winning over everything else.
Kobe was focused on being the best (individual) basketball player in the world over everything else -- if he were focused on winning, the Lakers would have won twice as many championshops as they did during his time.
posted by Etrigan at 7:33 AM on November 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
Kobe was focused on being the best (individual) basketball player in the world over everything else -- if he were focused on winning, the Lakers would have won twice as many championshops as they did during his time.
posted by Etrigan at 7:33 AM on November 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
I was in line right behind Kobe Bryant at Starbucks once.
posted by chrchr at 10:11 AM on November 30 [+] [!]
Saddest Tinder profile bio ever.
posted by Fizz at 7:34 AM on November 30, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by chrchr at 10:11 AM on November 30 [+] [!]
Saddest Tinder profile bio ever.
posted by Fizz at 7:34 AM on November 30, 2015 [9 favorites]
I'm being a hater, he's obviously Top 10, but he did have a chance to win 6 rings like only a tiny handful of non-Old-Timey-Celtics have and he blew it by pissing off 2 separate cohorts of players.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:35 AM on November 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:35 AM on November 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Love him or hate him, this marks the end of an era. For many many Lakers fans they have never known a Lakers without Kobe. I still remember reading about the cute young rookie about to join my local team in, of all places, Seventeen magazine.
I fall more into the "hate him" camp myself these days but he has indeed played some tremendous ball and I'm glad I got to watch.
posted by town of cats at 7:42 AM on November 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
I fall more into the "hate him" camp myself these days but he has indeed played some tremendous ball and I'm glad I got to watch.
posted by town of cats at 7:42 AM on November 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Oy and I'm playing right into his hands by casting him as a villain too. Barf. I'm part of the machine too. Oh well. It is what it is. Death to Heroball!
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:43 AM on November 30, 2015
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:43 AM on November 30, 2015
I am not throwing away my shot!
I'm gonna teach them how to say goodbye.
Oy and I'm playing right into his hands by casting him as a villain too.
And now I'm the villain in your history...
posted by kmz at 7:48 AM on November 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm gonna teach them how to say goodbye.
Oy and I'm playing right into his hands by casting him as a villain too.
And now I'm the villain in your history...
posted by kmz at 7:48 AM on November 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
I moved to Southern California the same year as Kobe's rookie season. I've always felt a special affinity for him since he's probably the biggest sports star where I've had pretty much unlimited access to all of his games for the entire duration of his career. It has been fun to watch him go from rookie with a lot of promise to arguably the best player in the league to now the veteran who may have stuck around a couple seasons past his prime.
My 11-year-old son and I went to the Lakers game a week ago Sunday. Of course they lost (watching the Lakers go from one of the proudest franchises in sports to the joke they've been the past couple years has been sad). but very glad my kid will get the chance to say he saw Kobe play live.
He'll never be one of the all time greats
In a 20-year career, he was an integral part of 5 NBA Championship teams. If winning the NBA title 25% of the time you play doesn't make one an all-time great, then you've created an impossible standard for greatness.
posted by The Gooch at 7:55 AM on November 30, 2015 [10 favorites]
My 11-year-old son and I went to the Lakers game a week ago Sunday. Of course they lost (watching the Lakers go from one of the proudest franchises in sports to the joke they've been the past couple years has been sad). but very glad my kid will get the chance to say he saw Kobe play live.
He'll never be one of the all time greats
In a 20-year career, he was an integral part of 5 NBA Championship teams. If winning the NBA title 25% of the time you play doesn't make one an all-time great, then you've created an impossible standard for greatness.
posted by The Gooch at 7:55 AM on November 30, 2015 [10 favorites]
I was in line right behind Kobe Bryant at Starbucks once.
Did he insist on making his coffee himself?
posted by Etrigan at 8:21 AM on November 30, 2015 [8 favorites]
Did he insist on making his coffee himself?
posted by Etrigan at 8:21 AM on November 30, 2015 [8 favorites]
Also, don't blame Kobe, he's just doing Kobe. Blame the Lakers management for wanting names that sell jerseys (and to avoid a controversy) more than a quality team.
Nah, Kobe deserves plenty of blame for dragging out his decline and demanding a team-killing contract well past his prime, crippling the team from getting any decent supporting players that could have prolonged his effective career. Tim Duncan, Dirk and other superstars have taken below market contracts to enable their teams to still field a competitive roster and contend for a title into their late 30s, where Kobe refused to budge and squeezed the team for every last cap dollar right through the end of this season when he's making 24mil, but playing like a guy barely worth the vet minimum.
Sure Lakers management deserves plenty of blame for allowing him to hold the franchise hostage and giving him that last contract just to keep selling jerseys while sacrificing the team for two years, but Kobe isn't considered the most selfish person in sports for no reason, and his actions confirmed that reputation to the bitter end.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:23 AM on November 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Nah, Kobe deserves plenty of blame for dragging out his decline and demanding a team-killing contract well past his prime, crippling the team from getting any decent supporting players that could have prolonged his effective career. Tim Duncan, Dirk and other superstars have taken below market contracts to enable their teams to still field a competitive roster and contend for a title into their late 30s, where Kobe refused to budge and squeezed the team for every last cap dollar right through the end of this season when he's making 24mil, but playing like a guy barely worth the vet minimum.
Sure Lakers management deserves plenty of blame for allowing him to hold the franchise hostage and giving him that last contract just to keep selling jerseys while sacrificing the team for two years, but Kobe isn't considered the most selfish person in sports for no reason, and his actions confirmed that reputation to the bitter end.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:23 AM on November 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
In a 20-year career, he was an integral part of 5 NBA Championship teams. If winning the NBA title 25% of the time you play doesn't make one an all-time great, then you've created an impossible standard for greatness.
I think Kobe is an all-time great, if only because he was top-5 or so at the thing he was best at and which is one of the most important skills in basketball. Ring-counting as a proxy for greatness irritates, me, though. Hell, Tommy Heinsohn won an NBA title 88% of the time he played, and while he was a fine player and hardly an embarrassment to the Hall of Fame, he's no one's idea (except maybe a truly rabid Holy Cross alum) of an all-time great. And I'm sure there's plenty of worse players who won as much or more than that, Heinsohn was just the first one that came to mind.
posted by Copronymus at 9:10 AM on November 30, 2015
I think Kobe is an all-time great, if only because he was top-5 or so at the thing he was best at and which is one of the most important skills in basketball. Ring-counting as a proxy for greatness irritates, me, though. Hell, Tommy Heinsohn won an NBA title 88% of the time he played, and while he was a fine player and hardly an embarrassment to the Hall of Fame, he's no one's idea (except maybe a truly rabid Holy Cross alum) of an all-time great. And I'm sure there's plenty of worse players who won as much or more than that, Heinsohn was just the first one that came to mind.
posted by Copronymus at 9:10 AM on November 30, 2015
Nah, Kobe deserves plenty of blame for dragging out his decline and demanding a team-killing contract well past his prime, crippling the team from getting any decent supporting players that could have prolonged his effective career. Tim Duncan, Dirk and other superstars have taken below market contracts to enable their teams to still field a competitive roster and contend for a title into their late 30s, where Kobe refused to budge and squeezed the team for every last cap dollar right through the end of this season when he's making 24mil, but playing like a guy barely worth the vet minimum.
Look, I've hated Kobe Bryant (in the sports fan sense of those words) since I was 10, but this is a dumb, bad argument. Taking below market rates for your labor is never smart. He didn't force the Lakers to offer him money; they voluntarily chose to do that. Stop buying into the framework that says that millionaires should take less money as a favor to billionaires. Sports is a business, and the Buss family made some bad business decisions. That isn't the fault of the people working for them who took that money, it's their fault.
As for Kobe, he was the best heel in the league and it'll be weird to see an NBA without him.
posted by protocoach at 9:20 AM on November 30, 2015 [9 favorites]
Look, I've hated Kobe Bryant (in the sports fan sense of those words) since I was 10, but this is a dumb, bad argument. Taking below market rates for your labor is never smart. He didn't force the Lakers to offer him money; they voluntarily chose to do that. Stop buying into the framework that says that millionaires should take less money as a favor to billionaires. Sports is a business, and the Buss family made some bad business decisions. That isn't the fault of the people working for them who took that money, it's their fault.
As for Kobe, he was the best heel in the league and it'll be weird to see an NBA without him.
posted by protocoach at 9:20 AM on November 30, 2015 [9 favorites]
Acquiring the maximum possible salary in exchange for your services is not selfish. That's what labor should do.
Even under the NBA's soft salary cap, Kobe getting $25 million didn't take a dime out of the Buss family pockets and resulted in other players making less than what they were worth.
posted by Etrigan at 9:34 AM on November 30, 2015
Even under the NBA's soft salary cap, Kobe getting $25 million didn't take a dime out of the Buss family pockets and resulted in other players making less than what they were worth.
posted by Etrigan at 9:34 AM on November 30, 2015
Taking below market rates for your labor is never smart.
This isn't the case for the top players, at all. Especially in basketball where there is a more rigourous salary cap and very few roster spots--the wisest players act more like CEOs who have a stake in the longer term goals of the organization AND the salaries of their "employees", the other players. You could say they have no stake in a winning record themselves, but endorsements, future investments, jobs as announcers or in other entertainment careers, all can hinge on winning more championships rather than Joe Johnsoning out with a big stack of taxable income.
You really think Tim Duncan made a mistake by weighing his immediate short term gain against the prospect of winning 5 rings? His current presence in Burger King (or whatever) ads beg to differ.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:34 AM on November 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
This isn't the case for the top players, at all. Especially in basketball where there is a more rigourous salary cap and very few roster spots--the wisest players act more like CEOs who have a stake in the longer term goals of the organization AND the salaries of their "employees", the other players. You could say they have no stake in a winning record themselves, but endorsements, future investments, jobs as announcers or in other entertainment careers, all can hinge on winning more championships rather than Joe Johnsoning out with a big stack of taxable income.
You really think Tim Duncan made a mistake by weighing his immediate short term gain against the prospect of winning 5 rings? His current presence in Burger King (or whatever) ads beg to differ.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:34 AM on November 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
It wasn't Kobe's idea to have a salary cap. It wasn't naturally occurring either. It was demanded by ownership as part of labor negotiations. It's designed to keep players from getting their fair share of the profits. As a side effect, it pits stars like Kobe against their teammates in salary negotiations.
posted by chrchr at 9:50 AM on November 30, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by chrchr at 9:50 AM on November 30, 2015 [8 favorites]
You really think Tim Duncan made a mistake by weighing his immediate short term gain against the prospect of winning 5 rings? His current presence in Burger King (or whatever) ads beg to differ.C'mon. Despite being legitimately terrible, Kobe is still a massive, massive earner. Second most in endorsement income and still the highest salary in the NBA. You can question his basketball talent in the past few years, but you can't question his career management -- he's been printing money ever since Michael left.
posted by Lame_username at 9:53 AM on November 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
But that salary cap and according restrictions are completely artificial and there to limit player income and... On preview what chrchr said.
posted by French Fry at 9:53 AM on November 30, 2015
posted by French Fry at 9:53 AM on November 30, 2015
It wasn't Kobe's idea to have a salary cap.
No, but it's still there, and he's damaged his team and his teammates by taking more than half of the Lakers' cap space on more than one occasion.
It wasn't naturally occurring either. It was demanded by ownership as part of labor negotiations. It's designed to keep players from getting their fair share of the profits.
It's tied to profits, and it includes minimum salaries as well, which artificially props up the low end of the spectrum, which is arguably more beneficial to more people than keeping the top six or seven players from making $50M a year.
As a side effect, it pits stars like Kobe against their teammates in salary negotiations.
Which he was more than willing to do, which other players weren't. There's only so much sympathy I can gin up for someone who played into a bad system at the expense of other people.
posted by Etrigan at 10:02 AM on November 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
No, but it's still there, and he's damaged his team and his teammates by taking more than half of the Lakers' cap space on more than one occasion.
It wasn't naturally occurring either. It was demanded by ownership as part of labor negotiations. It's designed to keep players from getting their fair share of the profits.
It's tied to profits, and it includes minimum salaries as well, which artificially props up the low end of the spectrum, which is arguably more beneficial to more people than keeping the top six or seven players from making $50M a year.
As a side effect, it pits stars like Kobe against their teammates in salary negotiations.
Which he was more than willing to do, which other players weren't. There's only so much sympathy I can gin up for someone who played into a bad system at the expense of other people.
posted by Etrigan at 10:02 AM on November 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'd assume that it's harder to quit when people are throwing millions of dollars at you to keep playing.
Believe me, it's hard to know when to quit when you're just an aging, once-sorta-promising player. I can't exactly fault anyone for being reluctant to stop doing the only thing they've ever known.
For being an asshole who was never any fun to watch, that I'll fault him for.
posted by cmoj at 10:02 AM on November 30, 2015
Believe me, it's hard to know when to quit when you're just an aging, once-sorta-promising player. I can't exactly fault anyone for being reluctant to stop doing the only thing they've ever known.
For being an asshole who was never any fun to watch, that I'll fault him for.
posted by cmoj at 10:02 AM on November 30, 2015
Profit maximization in the NBA labor context has very little relevance to a top player like Kobe or Lebron, who earn FAR, FAR more from endorsements and shoe deals than their base NBA salary, even while being the top paid players in the league. So yes, he's selfish for bending the Lakers over for an extra 15mil that he a) didn't need and b) could earn anyway easily by doing another commercial or two.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:04 AM on November 30, 2015
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:04 AM on November 30, 2015
I can't get mad at Kobe, who has made the Lakers franchise incredible amounts of money, for getting the amounts he wanted. If it limited the franchise's ability to go get other marquee players that would take attention away from him and his brand, perhaps that's more of a feature than a bug in his eyes. Kobe may be an ass, but he isn't dumb. You and I can call him selfish all we want, but that money is real, and in his account. For his family for generations to come.
posted by cashman at 10:06 AM on November 30, 2015
posted by cashman at 10:06 AM on November 30, 2015
This is a mean-spirited piece overall but I love the first line:
'The funniest thing about Kobe Bryant’s retirement “announcement” yesterday is that Kobe Bryant was clearly the last person to know that this would be Kobe Bryant’s final season.'
posted by Lyme Drop at 10:13 AM on November 30, 2015
'The funniest thing about Kobe Bryant’s retirement “announcement” yesterday is that Kobe Bryant was clearly the last person to know that this would be Kobe Bryant’s final season.'
posted by Lyme Drop at 10:13 AM on November 30, 2015
The first time I remember seeing Kobe Bryant was his airball party in the 1997 playoffs his rookie season, and it sounds like he's going out the same way.
I'm a Michael Jordan fan, and he was an asshole that was fun to watch. Kobe's moves always seemed pretty familiar. Michael and Kobe had similar bodies and skill sets, but Michael was a better team player:
For being an asshole who was never any fun to watch, that I'll fault him for.
I'm a Michael Jordan fan, and he was an asshole that was fun to watch. Kobe's moves always seemed pretty familiar. Michael and Kobe had similar bodies and skill sets, but Michael was a better team player:
If Michael didn't have a feud with a rival player or coach, he invented one. Michael needed a reason -- real or imagined -- to teach his most dangerous rivals a lesson.posted by kirkaracha at 10:41 AM on November 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yet Michael taught his on the scoreboard. Kobe gets even in the box score.
...Kobe got even with [Ray] Allen by turning into precisely the player Allen said he would be -- a self-absorbed superstar who considers teammates necessary evils at best. Kobe's sole goal was to outscore Allen, which he accomplished, 35 points to 26.
But Allen's teammate, Rashard Lewis, scored 37. Kobe's teammate, Lamar Odom, scored eight. Seattle won 108-93.
Michael's sole goal would have been to humiliate Allen's team in front of its fans.
The cap discussion is interesting, especially with regard to the Lakers, who make massive profits. Going over the cap would make the team less profitable, but there's nothing to stop them from doing that other than wanting to reap huge rewards. The taxes are punitive, but given the team's (estimated) profits, they could still pay to players and make money. I understand that one benefit of the cap is to make the teams more equal and give smaller market teams a boost, but put me on the side of the players when it comes to negotiating their best deal.
posted by cell divide at 10:41 AM on November 30, 2015
posted by cell divide at 10:41 AM on November 30, 2015
Yeah, I have to say it is rather strange seeing the generally very pro-labor Metafilter become total "How dare he try to earn his fair market value rather than taking a pay cut for the greater good of the organization" types when it comes to a professional athlete.
posted by The Gooch at 11:31 AM on November 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by The Gooch at 11:31 AM on November 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I have to say it is rather strange seeing the generally very pro-labor Metafilter become total "How dare he try to earn his fair market value rather than taking a pay cut for the greater good of the organization" types when it comes to a professional athlete.
Kobe Bryant agitated behind the scenes for a smaller cut for the players, and then took money away from his teammates who don't make another $8 million from Nike.
posted by Etrigan at 11:42 AM on November 30, 2015
Kobe Bryant agitated behind the scenes for a smaller cut for the players, and then took money away from his teammates who don't make another $8 million from Nike.
posted by Etrigan at 11:42 AM on November 30, 2015
Wasn't that 3 months into the 2011 lockout? And that was negotiations to get the season going as soon as possible. I don't think that's terrible when you take into account Kobe's statements about how players should be able to get as much money as they want, and fans shouldn't take owners sides.
posted by cashman at 12:10 PM on November 30, 2015
posted by cashman at 12:10 PM on November 30, 2015
I don't think that's terrible when you take into account Kobe's statements about how players should be able to get as much money as they want, and fans shouldn't take owners sides.
Yes, he talks a good game, but when it's his money on the line, he folds.
posted by Etrigan at 12:24 PM on November 30, 2015
Yes, he talks a good game, but when it's his money on the line, he folds.
posted by Etrigan at 12:24 PM on November 30, 2015
Acquiring the maximum possible salary in exchange for your services is not selfish. That's what labor should do.
Labor versus Management was the worst NBA final ever.
posted by srboisvert at 1:23 PM on November 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
Labor versus Management was the worst NBA final ever.
posted by srboisvert at 1:23 PM on November 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
It is great that players can make lots of money and take their fair market value, don't get me wrong. But, I'll make another corporate comparison, Kobe is more like the CTO or head of engineering at a big company. He's an employee, but he's also a manager. He could, if he cares about the long term health of the company, consider taking less of a salary if he thinks they could spend that on more engineers to keep his team competitive and to attract more talent. We're not talking about selling himself short, just turning down super crazy money to hire a young hotshot who could create something lasting.
Plus to continue the belabored (heh) analogy, Kobe is a shitty shitty boss.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:34 PM on November 30, 2015
Plus to continue the belabored (heh) analogy, Kobe is a shitty shitty boss.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:34 PM on November 30, 2015
Jon Bois, "What's wrong with these Lakers? And other questions that don't have easy answers":
posted by mhum at 2:51 PM on November 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
At 2-11, the Lakers are struggling like they never have before. On paper, it seems like they have all the pieces: Kobe Bryant, after all, is leading the team in three-point attempts and shooting .195 from beyond the arc. He's 20 seasons into a career he's largely spent in the company of other superstars and playmakers, and suddenly, at age 37, he finds himself working with a depleted roster.You'll have to click through to see the other questions without easy answers.
To boot, the team is led by Byron Scott. Over the past decade, he has coached 10 seasons across three different franchises, and led none of them to the playoffs. In fact, this is his coaching record over the course of this decade:
2009-10: 3-6
2010-11: 19-63
2011-12: 21-45
2012-13: 24-58
2014-15: 21-61
Total: 88-233 (.274)
It seems like all the pieces are there for the Lakers to turn things around. It's all up to Kobe and Scott to put them together.
Other questions without easy answers:
posted by mhum at 2:51 PM on November 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Jon Bois is a national treasure.
posted by Tknophobia at 2:55 PM on November 30, 2015
posted by Tknophobia at 2:55 PM on November 30, 2015
I'll never wear a Kobe jersey, but as a Lakers fan (born and raised in LA) I don't blame him for the recent woes.
Jim Buss is the problem.
He offered Kobe that cash right up front. Kobe said the max deal came out of the blue. I believe that because Jim is an idiot.
They should probably have amnestied Kobe as soon as they confirmed the Achilles snap. He could have rehabbed for a year and come back on a modest salary.
What I think the NBA could use is a special compensation for franchise players. A player like Kobe is being underpaid for most of their career and then only has a chance to cash in when they aren't worth it. A team should be able to offer one player with 10+ years tenure an escrowed equity stake for when they retire, off the cap.
posted by twjordan at 6:32 PM on November 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Jim Buss is the problem.
He offered Kobe that cash right up front. Kobe said the max deal came out of the blue. I believe that because Jim is an idiot.
They should probably have amnestied Kobe as soon as they confirmed the Achilles snap. He could have rehabbed for a year and come back on a modest salary.
What I think the NBA could use is a special compensation for franchise players. A player like Kobe is being underpaid for most of their career and then only has a chance to cash in when they aren't worth it. A team should be able to offer one player with 10+ years tenure an escrowed equity stake for when they retire, off the cap.
posted by twjordan at 6:32 PM on November 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Jim is an idiot.
Jeanie Buss: Three-year rebuilding plan still in place
posted by Room 641-A at 6:47 PM on November 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Jeanie Buss: Three-year rebuilding plan still in place
posted by Room 641-A at 6:47 PM on November 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm still a little surprised that there's only one instance of the phrase "alleged rapist" in this thread. As a life-long NBA fan and recovering Lakers fan, my view of Kobe's legacy is unalterably colored by the rape accusation and ensuing events (that apology ring!).
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:02 PM on November 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:02 PM on November 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I finally lost all interest in the NBA when it came out that crooked refs handed the 2002 Western Conference Finals to the goddamn Lakers at the expense of the Kings, who were infinitely more fun to watch and a consummate team that has never fully recovered. However, it has been a pleasure to know that Jim Buss and Kobe Bryant have been strangling the Lakers for years. So long, alleged rapist Kobe. May you win just enough this year that the Lakers miss out on a good draft position, and may the Lakers continue to suck well into the future.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:06 PM on November 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Existential Dread at 9:06 PM on November 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
LA's draft pick is only top-3 protected, so it's very likely it will end up in the hands of the 76ers, as is the fate of all draft picks for the foreseeable future of ever.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 9:16 PM on November 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 9:16 PM on November 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I finally lost all interest in the NBA when it came out that crooked refs handed the 2002 Western Conference Finals to the goddamn Lakers at the expense of the Kings, who were infinitely more fun to watch and a consummate team that has never fully recovered.
I've never been more than a sports dabbler but basketball is fun to watch and growing up near Sac everybody was so excited/disappointed by those playoffs/the whole mini-era where the Kings were credible rivals to the Lakers. Now we can watch the other NorCal team completely demolish Kobe and Co. but it's almost too easy.
posted by atoxyl at 9:51 PM on November 30, 2015
I've never been more than a sports dabbler but basketball is fun to watch and growing up near Sac everybody was so excited/disappointed by those playoffs/the whole mini-era where the Kings were credible rivals to the Lakers. Now we can watch the other NorCal team completely demolish Kobe and Co. but it's almost too easy.
posted by atoxyl at 9:51 PM on November 30, 2015
My dad's been the veterinarian in his tiny rural town for almost 40 years. He's long had to stop working cattle and horses because his body can't take the damage and strain. We all wonder when he'll retire and enjoy his golden years. But what would he do that provides him nearly as much purpose and routine as the job around which he's built his identity? Giving that up clearly frightens him on some level.
The shelf life of a pro athlete is a lot shorter than that of a country vet. These guys are still young enough and rich enough to weather the angst of aging out of a job they love. But I get it. I understand why they stay around so late. Particularly the greats.
posted by echocollate at 6:02 AM on December 1, 2015
The shelf life of a pro athlete is a lot shorter than that of a country vet. These guys are still young enough and rich enough to weather the angst of aging out of a job they love. But I get it. I understand why they stay around so late. Particularly the greats.
posted by echocollate at 6:02 AM on December 1, 2015
"He was a one-man tank job."
It's been more than a decade since I moved away from Philly, but the Sixers suckitude seems to have spread to the fans, who should under no circumstances be giving that ball-hogging prick a standing ovation. Not that there's anything to cheer for in Philly sports right now, certainly not on the hardwood, but "back in my day" we booed jerk athletes who disrespected our town.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:35 PM on December 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's been more than a decade since I moved away from Philly, but the Sixers suckitude seems to have spread to the fans, who should under no circumstances be giving that ball-hogging prick a standing ovation. Not that there's anything to cheer for in Philly sports right now, certainly not on the hardwood, but "back in my day" we booed jerk athletes who disrespected our town.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:35 PM on December 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Agree with the Sixers fans or not, it shouldn't be a surprise; Kobe's always been a hometown hero to a lot of people there.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:29 AM on December 2, 2015
posted by Room 641-A at 4:29 AM on December 2, 2015
Heh and there goes the Sixers' streak. Kobe: 7-26 from the floor.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:48 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:48 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Agree with the Sixers fans or not, it shouldn't be a surprise; Kobe's always been a hometown hero to a lot of people there.
It actually is kind of a surprise to me, because for a long time, Kobe basically refused to acknowledge much of a connection to Philly at all, but now that he's doing his farewell tour, he's suddenly acting like he's always been our homeboy. Fuck outta here.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:28 PM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
It actually is kind of a surprise to me, because for a long time, Kobe basically refused to acknowledge much of a connection to Philly at all, but now that he's doing his farewell tour, he's suddenly acting like he's always been our homeboy. Fuck outta here.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:28 PM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
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