Man In Tree charged; $50,000 bail
March 29, 2016 8:37 AM Subscribe
Cody Lee Miller, a possibly homeless individual who became famous for sitting in a tree in downtown Seattle for a little over 24 hours, inspiring the #ManInTree hashtag, was charged yesterday with third-degree assault and first-degree malicious mischief, after an initial promise that he would not be charged by SPD spokesperson Patrick Michaud. (While in the tree, he threw pinecones and an apple at approaching officers and stripped some branches of the tree by hand.) His bail has been set at $50,000 and he remains in King County Jail.
He has a long history of mental illness. The state of Washington has slashed mental health funding in the last decade. Prosecutors say the cost to the public in the tree incident was "incalculable".
He has a long history of mental illness. The state of Washington has slashed mental health funding in the last decade. Prosecutors say the cost to the public in the tree incident was "incalculable".
Flames, on the side of my face.
posted by entropicamericana at 8:49 AM on March 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 8:49 AM on March 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
"This caused an incalculable waste of time"
which was preceeded by
Last week's standoff [...] tied up 70 Seattle police officers, administrators and crisis responders
and
the drama caused nearly $8,000 in damage to the tree itself.
Seems like KOMO News has done more work than the City of Seattle in figuring out the costs of this action. Does Seattle really not know how much they pay those involved in this case?
posted by saeculorum at 8:49 AM on March 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
which was preceeded by
Last week's standoff [...] tied up 70 Seattle police officers, administrators and crisis responders
and
the drama caused nearly $8,000 in damage to the tree itself.
Seems like KOMO News has done more work than the City of Seattle in figuring out the costs of this action. Does Seattle really not know how much they pay those involved in this case?
posted by saeculorum at 8:49 AM on March 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
Just keep punching down, everybody. Remember: you can victimize the poor and vulnerable over and over again to score points at your job.
Prosecutors say the cost to the public in the tree incident was "incalculable".
Yeah, sure, helping a sick man is an incalculable waste of money.
posted by selfnoise at 8:50 AM on March 29, 2016 [43 favorites]
Prosecutors say the cost to the public in the tree incident was "incalculable".
Yeah, sure, helping a sick man is an incalculable waste of money.
posted by selfnoise at 8:50 AM on March 29, 2016 [43 favorites]
Oh, OP, you got it wrong. From your link:
So, clearly the damage to the tree was calculable, but the cost to law enforcement was not. Now I find this lack of calculators to be fairly disturbing, and also find that the inability determine cost and efficiency of law-enforcement, yet the ability to precisely determine the cost of damage to a tree, to be pretty highly suspect, but there you go.
posted by Bovine Love at 8:50 AM on March 29, 2016 [13 favorites]
"This caused an incalculable waste of time and services and arguably the efficacy of local law-enforcement's reaction time to other serious calls for service around the city," court documents say.and
In addition, the drama caused nearly $8,000 in damage to the tree itself, according to documents, which also say that a firefighter was nearly struck by a large metal ring the man threw down from the treetop.
So, clearly the damage to the tree was calculable, but the cost to law enforcement was not. Now I find this lack of calculators to be fairly disturbing, and also find that the inability determine cost and efficiency of law-enforcement, yet the ability to precisely determine the cost of damage to a tree, to be pretty highly suspect, but there you go.
posted by Bovine Love at 8:50 AM on March 29, 2016 [13 favorites]
On re-read, I slightly misread the OP. Doh. And got mostly beat to it, too. Doh. I'll go eat my lunch now.
posted by Bovine Love at 8:52 AM on March 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Bovine Love at 8:52 AM on March 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm pretty sure I've seen him downtown shouting at people, so I would saw both homelessness and mental illness are highly likely. Given that, the criminal proceedings seem pretty cruel.
Seattle's homeless problem is immense these days, there's clearly some institutional brokenness going on.
posted by Artw at 8:52 AM on March 29, 2016 [5 favorites]
Seattle's homeless problem is immense these days, there's clearly some institutional brokenness going on.
posted by Artw at 8:52 AM on March 29, 2016 [5 favorites]
It gets incalculable when you factor in all the lost work time by people commenting on the story. Basically, Miller will be responsible for the next recession.
posted by Etrigan at 8:53 AM on March 29, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 8:53 AM on March 29, 2016 [10 favorites]
Presumably it's incalculable since those police and fire personnel weren't doing their jobs elsewhere, in multiple ways across the city, instead of all of them having to be concentrated on one guy in a tree.
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:56 AM on March 29, 2016
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:56 AM on March 29, 2016
Oh, I see two SWAT teams were ready to go as well. 'Cause you know what this situation totally called for and could only be helped by? Fucking SWAT teams.
posted by obfuscation at 8:56 AM on March 29, 2016 [57 favorites]
posted by obfuscation at 8:56 AM on March 29, 2016 [57 favorites]
And how do we calculate the damage done to this man by the state's utter failure to provide resources to treat his illness?
Also, SPD being shitty, this is my shocked face.
posted by trunk muffins at 8:57 AM on March 29, 2016 [18 favorites]
Also, SPD being shitty, this is my shocked face.
posted by trunk muffins at 8:57 AM on March 29, 2016 [18 favorites]
Prosecutors say the cost to the public in the tree incident was "incalculable".
And was already paid for by the taxpayers.
posted by maxsparber at 8:57 AM on March 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
And was already paid for by the taxpayers.
posted by maxsparber at 8:57 AM on March 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
Oh, I see two SWAT teams were ready to go as well.
One for Miller, one in case the tree came down with Stockholm syndrome and went on a rampage. Makes sense.
posted by Etrigan at 8:57 AM on March 29, 2016 [25 favorites]
One for Miller, one in case the tree came down with Stockholm syndrome and went on a rampage. Makes sense.
posted by Etrigan at 8:57 AM on March 29, 2016 [25 favorites]
Probably they should have just left him to it. "mentally ill man neglected, falls out of tree" isn't a great look either though.
posted by Artw at 9:01 AM on March 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:01 AM on March 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
The solution to the incalculable personnel cost is to add on an incalculable amount of a judge's time, plus an incalculable amount of bad press for turning a health and welfare issue into the crime of the century. Good work, people.
posted by zippy at 9:03 AM on March 29, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by zippy at 9:03 AM on March 29, 2016 [5 favorites]
This story introduced me to sit-lie laws. Charming.
posted by zamboni at 9:04 AM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by zamboni at 9:04 AM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
For fucks sake. It's not like the guy asked for the response. And if it's just an assault charge, why does the money spent matter?
posted by corb at 9:06 AM on March 29, 2016
posted by corb at 9:06 AM on March 29, 2016
"mentally ill man neglected, falls out of tree" isn't a great look either though.
Yeah, but "mentally ill man neglected," is basically the ongoing situation in Seattle/Portland/Olympia/San Francisco/etc. The solution seems to be hey, let's just have lawless tent cities scattered all over the metro area, rather than provide services to these people in need. But that's what you get in Reagan's America.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:08 AM on March 29, 2016 [10 favorites]
Yeah, but "mentally ill man neglected," is basically the ongoing situation in Seattle/Portland/Olympia/San Francisco/etc. The solution seems to be hey, let's just have lawless tent cities scattered all over the metro area, rather than provide services to these people in need. But that's what you get in Reagan's America.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:08 AM on March 29, 2016 [10 favorites]
His bail has been set at $50,000
Well, he's definitely a flight risk
posted by thelonius at 9:09 AM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Well, he's definitely a flight risk
posted by thelonius at 9:09 AM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
We had this awful shit go down earlier in the year: Five shot, two dead, at Seattle homeless encampment
Something is very broken.
posted by Artw at 9:10 AM on March 29, 2016 [5 favorites]
Something is very broken.
posted by Artw at 9:10 AM on March 29, 2016 [5 favorites]
Prosecutors say the cost to the public in the tree incident was "incalculable".
Does the City of Seattle actually know what "calculable" means?
posted by clockzero at 9:10 AM on March 29, 2016 [14 favorites]
Does the City of Seattle actually know what "calculable" means?
posted by clockzero at 9:10 AM on March 29, 2016 [14 favorites]
All the city's adding machines are being used to figure out the cost of Bertha
posted by OHenryPacey at 9:12 AM on March 29, 2016 [21 favorites]
posted by OHenryPacey at 9:12 AM on March 29, 2016 [21 favorites]
Yeah, but "mentally ill man neglected," is basically the ongoing situation in Seattle/Portland/Olympia/San Francisco/etc.
"etc." meaning New York, Boston, parts of D.C. ...
posted by Melismata at 9:12 AM on March 29, 2016
"etc." meaning New York, Boston, parts of D.C. ...
posted by Melismata at 9:12 AM on March 29, 2016
It seems like they are trying to make an example of him. Otherwise, I can't imagine a prosecutor wanting to charge someone with assault for throwing pinecones. But, really, what's the point of that? The way to discourage these sorts of mental health episodes is to have a public mental health system. It isn't like there are lots of people who want to behave like this guy who are only going to be discouraged if they see that it results in criminal charges.
posted by Alluring Mouthbreather at 9:14 AM on March 29, 2016 [25 favorites]
posted by Alluring Mouthbreather at 9:14 AM on March 29, 2016 [25 favorites]
Meanwhile, a homeowner in Seattle cut down 153 trees on a city-owned environmentally critical area to improve their view. They'll probably get a slap on the wrist. The city ignored this for two months until the Seattle Times wrote a story about it.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 9:14 AM on March 29, 2016 [44 favorites]
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 9:14 AM on March 29, 2016 [44 favorites]
Cost of rescuing a mentally-ill man from a tree: an incalculable waste of time and money.
Cost of rescuing kittens from trees: what are you, some kind of heartless sicko?
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:15 AM on March 29, 2016 [7 favorites]
Cost of rescuing kittens from trees: what are you, some kind of heartless sicko?
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:15 AM on March 29, 2016 [7 favorites]
It's always easier to use the full force of the justice system against poor people.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:16 AM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:16 AM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
They'll probably get a slap on the wrist.
I'd be pretty surprised if cutting down 153 trees didn't result in huge amounts in fines, actually.
posted by Hoopo at 9:21 AM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'd be pretty surprised if cutting down 153 trees didn't result in huge amounts in fines, actually.
posted by Hoopo at 9:21 AM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Meanwhile, a homeowner in Seattle cut down 153 trees on a city-owned environmentally critical area to improve their view.
Ugh, I heard about this. There are many neighborhoods where "the view" is sacrosanct, and any and all trees must be cut/topped/mutilated to protect the view. It's hideous and damaging, as those denuded hillsides are now much more landslide prone. I hope whoever hired the people to cut the trees get the hammer, and are liable for any landslides/erosion that occur in the area.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:22 AM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Ugh, I heard about this. There are many neighborhoods where "the view" is sacrosanct, and any and all trees must be cut/topped/mutilated to protect the view. It's hideous and damaging, as those denuded hillsides are now much more landslide prone. I hope whoever hired the people to cut the trees get the hammer, and are liable for any landslides/erosion that occur in the area.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:22 AM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Last week's standoff with a man who climbed to the top of downtown Seattle's iconic sequoia tree tied up 70 Seattle police officers, administrators and crisis responders for 25 hours, along with four fire engine companies, battalion command staff and two SWAT teams!?! Next time you have a man in a tree just let Canada know. We'll send a couple mounties down with a 50 pack of Tim Bits and have them wait around until he comes down.
posted by Mitheral at 9:25 AM on March 29, 2016 [9 favorites]
From a friend in Seattle's FB:
One of the rewards of working graveyard shift with people who stay up all night doing drugs is when you're browsing the internet at 4 am thinking,"I wonder what's up with guy in the tree right now," someone pops in the door and immediately blurts out,"HE'S STILL UP THAT TREE!!!
posted by josher71 at 9:26 AM on March 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
One of the rewards of working graveyard shift with people who stay up all night doing drugs is when you're browsing the internet at 4 am thinking,"I wonder what's up with guy in the tree right now," someone pops in the door and immediately blurts out,"HE'S STILL UP THAT TREE!!!
posted by josher71 at 9:26 AM on March 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
splitpeasoup: "Prosecutors say the cost to the public in the tree incident was "incalculable"."
Because you can't divide by zero?
posted by chavenet at 9:26 AM on March 29, 2016 [15 favorites]
Because you can't divide by zero?
posted by chavenet at 9:26 AM on March 29, 2016 [15 favorites]
They'll probably get a slap on the wrist.
I'd be pretty surprised if cutting down 153 trees didn't result in huge amounts in fines, actually.
Anything south of 153 times what Miller gets is a slap on the wrist.
posted by Etrigan at 9:28 AM on March 29, 2016 [10 favorites]
I'd be pretty surprised if cutting down 153 trees didn't result in huge amounts in fines, actually.
Anything south of 153 times what Miller gets is a slap on the wrist.
posted by Etrigan at 9:28 AM on March 29, 2016 [10 favorites]
This is basically the exact opposite of what o was opting would be te resolution of #treeking. Crap.
posted by egypturnash at 9:33 AM on March 29, 2016
posted by egypturnash at 9:33 AM on March 29, 2016
They'll probably get a slap on the wrist.
The City was talking felony charges, last time this came up on Google News. Felony View Improvement. Which I applaud. The felony part, that is...
Now if they could charge for the view destruction due to development south of Stewart. Soon enough, the only places you will be able to see the Space Needle, let alone the Olympics, is from around the Center.
posted by y2karl at 9:41 AM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
The City was talking felony charges, last time this came up on Google News. Felony View Improvement. Which I applaud. The felony part, that is...
Now if they could charge for the view destruction due to development south of Stewart. Soon enough, the only places you will be able to see the Space Needle, let alone the Olympics, is from around the Center.
posted by y2karl at 9:41 AM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Presumably it's incalculable since those police and fire personnel weren't doing their jobs elsewhere, in multiple ways across the city, instead of all of them having to be concentrated on one guy in a tree.
"Had to"? Okay, some response is definitely warranted, but 70 personnel on site, and backup ready to go, responders tied up, etc.?
posted by Dysk at 9:52 AM on March 29, 2016 [7 favorites]
"Had to"? Okay, some response is definitely warranted, but 70 personnel on site, and backup ready to go, responders tied up, etc.?
posted by Dysk at 9:52 AM on March 29, 2016 [7 favorites]
Is that the same municipality that drained a reservoir because someone pissed in it? Ah, no, that was Portland. But it does seem like they're smoking some crazy shit in the north-west...
posted by Devonian at 9:59 AM on March 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 9:59 AM on March 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
So the stripped branches at the top of that one tree are worth $8,000?
I guess Weyerhauser owes somebody about 780 trillion dollars.
posted by crazylegs at 10:01 AM on March 29, 2016 [7 favorites]
I guess Weyerhauser owes somebody about 780 trillion dollars.
posted by crazylegs at 10:01 AM on March 29, 2016 [7 favorites]
SPD spokesperson Patrick Michaud said the man was not facing any charges shortly after the Seattle tree incident ended.
“We’re more concerned about getting him the mental health (treatment) that he needs,” he said.
Yup! That sure happened! I'm sure he's getting prosecuted for his own good, and he'll get the best mental care available in the Oregon prison system.
Fuuuuuuck all of this. Hopefully a lawyer will take this on pro-bono and at least give him a small chance.
posted by Fig at 10:01 AM on March 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
“We’re more concerned about getting him the mental health (treatment) that he needs,” he said.
Yup! That sure happened! I'm sure he's getting prosecuted for his own good, and he'll get the best mental care available in the Oregon prison system.
Fuuuuuuck all of this. Hopefully a lawyer will take this on pro-bono and at least give him a small chance.
posted by Fig at 10:01 AM on March 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
We need to get these habitual tree abusers off the streets (and branches)! Throw away the key, I say!
posted by jim in austin at 10:01 AM on March 29, 2016
posted by jim in austin at 10:01 AM on March 29, 2016
It's worth noting that the state's been slashing mental health funding for a good deal longer than a decade. This being a recurring thematic problem in my life here in it. /sigh
posted by Archelaus at 10:02 AM on March 29, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Archelaus at 10:02 AM on March 29, 2016 [5 favorites]
...smoking some legal crazy shit in the north-west...
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 10:02 AM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 10:02 AM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
So the stripped branches at the top of that one tree are worth $8,000?
I think it's probably more to do with the costs of getting an arborist out with equipment to do an assessment and remediation of any damage, rather than the actual dollar value of the branches at the top of the tree.
posted by Hoopo at 10:07 AM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think it's probably more to do with the costs of getting an arborist out with equipment to do an assessment and remediation of any damage, rather than the actual dollar value of the branches at the top of the tree.
posted by Hoopo at 10:07 AM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
The sad truth is that the only way to get guaranteed mental health treatment in the US is by getting arrested. There are some very compassionate, knowledgeable people working in that system so I do hope that Mr. Miller can get some benefit from this unnecessary mess.
posted by grounded at 10:13 AM on March 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by grounded at 10:13 AM on March 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
[B]ut 70 people... etc.
Well, when a guy wants to climb up a street tree in what amounts to a traffic divider in the middle of a very busy three lane arterial downtown and bust off branches over the right-of-way, exactly what are the liabilities?
posted by y2karl at 10:22 AM on March 29, 2016
Well, when a guy wants to climb up a street tree in what amounts to a traffic divider in the middle of a very busy three lane arterial downtown and bust off branches over the right-of-way, exactly what are the liabilities?
posted by y2karl at 10:22 AM on March 29, 2016
They'll probably get a slap on the wrist.
I'd be pretty surprised if cutting down 153 trees didn't result in huge amounts in fines, actually.
Anything south of 153 times what Miller gets is a slap on the wrist.
In practice, I'm against corporal punishment, but in my imagination, I'm envisioning 153 concerned citizens giving their hardest slap on the wrist in quick succession.
Good, you got your view, enjoy that permanent nerve damage.
posted by explosion at 10:28 AM on March 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'd be pretty surprised if cutting down 153 trees didn't result in huge amounts in fines, actually.
Anything south of 153 times what Miller gets is a slap on the wrist.
In practice, I'm against corporal punishment, but in my imagination, I'm envisioning 153 concerned citizens giving their hardest slap on the wrist in quick succession.
Good, you got your view, enjoy that permanent nerve damage.
posted by explosion at 10:28 AM on March 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
His bail has been set at $50,000
posted by Talez at 10:29 AM on March 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.Ok. Yeah. Sounds about right.
posted by Talez at 10:29 AM on March 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
Does the City of Seattle actually know what "calculable" means?
in PR speak "incalculable" often means either:
1) value so low we'd be laughed at
2) value so high we'd rather you wouldn't get upset
posted by lmfsilva at 10:31 AM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
in PR speak "incalculable" often means either:
1) value so low we'd be laughed at
2) value so high we'd rather you wouldn't get upset
posted by lmfsilva at 10:31 AM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
The city ignored this for two months until the Seattle Times wrote a story about it.
Actually, the West Seattle Blog wrote about it first, and District 1 Councilmember Lisa Herbold and the city attorney were on top of it right after that. If the perpetrators get more than a slap on the wrist (they're talking possible felony charges), then I'll credit the district-based council system.
posted by matildaben at 10:33 AM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Actually, the West Seattle Blog wrote about it first, and District 1 Councilmember Lisa Herbold and the city attorney were on top of it right after that. If the perpetrators get more than a slap on the wrist (they're talking possible felony charges), then I'll credit the district-based council system.
posted by matildaben at 10:33 AM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
After the Reagan and Bush eras, there ain't much of a net for the homeless. In other countries, they'd live in a shanty town or poverty area. Those are extant world-wide. It may be a mud walled tin roofed room, but it's home. In this country, we continue to try to push homeless out of cities. Out of sight, out of mind I guess....
There are people all over the gigantic metroplex that is the San Francisco/San Jose area living in (illegal) tent cities, in the bushes along freeways, in abandoned buildings, etc. Panhandlers everywhere.
Homelessness is endemic in this country as we catch the rest of the world with our large poverty base and population growth. The homeless are those falling out of the very bottom of any physical/mental health/help/shelter/food services (the few that exist in a few places). High estimates of alcohol abuse are generally a symptom, not a cause; it's a coping mechanism.
N=1, but I interpret this kind of thing as an outreach for help. Problemo = there ain't any. But living on the street, chemical imbalances, lack of cleanliness and shelter and regular food is often gonna make anything, even a jail cell, seem a comfort....
This kind of tree sitting incident has been going on for decades. The only reason I see it made news is because it wasn't the usual protest of some sort, but just someone waving a "help" flag and the typical authoritarian and "news" responses as a result.
That's a boilerplate "cost" response from the various agencies that responded; nothing new there.
I'd like to see a followup on this person in...a month...six months...one year. Is it going to be 15m of fame before falling in the flames, or the start of a road to a place of stability and a home?
posted by CrowGoat at 11:01 AM on March 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
Metafilter: incalculable
posted by Cosine at 11:15 AM on March 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Cosine at 11:15 AM on March 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
Does the City of Seattle actually know what "calculable" means?
They keep using that word. I do not think it means what they think it means
posted by Hoopo at 11:18 AM on March 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
They keep using that word. I do not think it means what they think it means
posted by Hoopo at 11:18 AM on March 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
Prosecutors say the cost to the public in the tree incident was "incalculable".
I wish that they intended what the actual meaning of that statement reads to me as... That the almost perverse lack of concern (resulting in the willingness to slash or completely remove funding/budgets) for mental health services not only results in other, difficult to measure opportunity costs, but also "incalculable" costs to this man's well being and quality of life (like as with countless others who need help).
Sorry for the run on sentence; I'm mad and sad and beyond frustrated by this.
I hope that Cody Lee Miller crosses paths with someone, anyone, in the system that is able to compassionately reach out to help.
posted by BigHeartedGuy at 11:23 AM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
I wish that they intended what the actual meaning of that statement reads to me as... That the almost perverse lack of concern (resulting in the willingness to slash or completely remove funding/budgets) for mental health services not only results in other, difficult to measure opportunity costs, but also "incalculable" costs to this man's well being and quality of life (like as with countless others who need help).
Sorry for the run on sentence; I'm mad and sad and beyond frustrated by this.
I hope that Cody Lee Miller crosses paths with someone, anyone, in the system that is able to compassionately reach out to help.
posted by BigHeartedGuy at 11:23 AM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
I hope that Cody Lee Miller crosses paths with someone, anyone, in the system that is able to compassionately reach out to help.
I certainly wish he gets help, but for every Cody Lee Miller that does something dramatic enough to make the news, there are hundreds more people that we never see or talk about who need the same kind of services.
posted by zachlipton at 11:27 AM on March 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
I certainly wish he gets help, but for every Cody Lee Miller that does something dramatic enough to make the news, there are hundreds more people that we never see or talk about who need the same kind of services.
posted by zachlipton at 11:27 AM on March 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
It was during the presidency of Gerald Ford, not Reagan, when the Supreme Court made their ruling on involuntary commitment.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 11:32 AM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 11:32 AM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Where are the homeless coming from? They’re mostly from here, service providers say
posted by Artw at 11:42 AM on March 29, 2016
posted by Artw at 11:42 AM on March 29, 2016
It was during the presidency of Gerald Ford, not Reagan, when the Supreme Court made their ruling on involuntary commitment.
And it was during the presidency (and governorship) of Ronald Reagan that Ronald Reagan defunded a wide swath of mental health care facilities, sending hundreds of thousands onto the streets.
posted by Etrigan at 11:44 AM on March 29, 2016 [14 favorites]
And it was during the presidency (and governorship) of Ronald Reagan that Ronald Reagan defunded a wide swath of mental health care facilities, sending hundreds of thousands onto the streets.
posted by Etrigan at 11:44 AM on March 29, 2016 [14 favorites]
So the stripped branches at the top of that one tree are worth $8,000?
I guess Weyerhauser owes somebody about 780 trillion dollars.
Fuck those Weyerhauser assholes. We were treated to bald hills out my part of Oregon (just outside of Springfield), and I remember when it happened – 1980s. I remember them telling us, "it's okay, we're going to replant." They did not replant. A couple hills, thankfully, were public; those at least were replanted. At our expense (which we majoritarily supported). The other hills? Are still bald 30-odd years later.
But yes by all means let's send "incalculable" resources out to a homeless dude in a tree. Who made the decision to do these incaculable actions and why did they not stop why it was still calculable? Jeez, send out a trainee to watch the dude in the tree. Have a senior officer drop by once in a while to give the trainee tips as needed. Change trainees when working hours require it. Dude in the tree will come down eventually.
posted by fraula at 11:53 AM on March 29, 2016
I guess Weyerhauser owes somebody about 780 trillion dollars.
Fuck those Weyerhauser assholes. We were treated to bald hills out my part of Oregon (just outside of Springfield), and I remember when it happened – 1980s. I remember them telling us, "it's okay, we're going to replant." They did not replant. A couple hills, thankfully, were public; those at least were replanted. At our expense (which we majoritarily supported). The other hills? Are still bald 30-odd years later.
But yes by all means let's send "incalculable" resources out to a homeless dude in a tree. Who made the decision to do these incaculable actions and why did they not stop why it was still calculable? Jeez, send out a trainee to watch the dude in the tree. Have a senior officer drop by once in a while to give the trainee tips as needed. Change trainees when working hours require it. Dude in the tree will come down eventually.
posted by fraula at 11:53 AM on March 29, 2016
Well, according to my incalculations, this is a cortical null node.
posted by y2karl at 12:21 PM on March 29, 2016
posted by y2karl at 12:21 PM on March 29, 2016
In Washington state, family members cannot have a loved one committed against their will. [...] The King County Prosecuting Attorney’s Office said it is too soon to say whether his mental health will factor into their prosecution of the case.
Did anyone consider that charging him, and the 50k bail, is the only way they could keep him off the streets in leu of the above?
posted by smidgen at 12:23 PM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Did anyone consider that charging him, and the 50k bail, is the only way they could keep him off the streets in leu of the above?
posted by smidgen at 12:23 PM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Completely unsurprised at this outcome. I work in a crisis center and expected this guy to pop up at our place. I asked our inhouse outreach team about this at the time and they never got a call. We directly work with the SPD and do a ton of jail deferrals, but as it got later in the day I talked it over with an aquiantance at one of the large mental health providers in the area and we came to the conclusion that they were going to hold it to this guy just because of the tab and headaches he was causing. The SPD and the other precints in King County actively work to try to deal with the apparently mentally ill in humane ways. From what I read he just arrived up here from Portland so I don't believe he's known around here.
Where are the homeless coming from? They’re mostly from here, service providers say
Read that previously and I wasn't to sure about those numbers. By and large it's probably mostly true as more and more people are getting squeezed out of viable places to live, but then again when we assess people we actually ask them whether they actually have their name on a lease AND their living history. Like this guy, there are quite a few people who come here for the services and/or... other reasons. Marking them down as having "lived" somewhere in Seattle doesn't necessarily mean they're from here. The University of Washington is considered as having one of the best social work programs in the nation. Liberal policy makers, service providers, free meals and social services are abundant in Seattle, but we don't have the services to realistically help people.
Changes need to happen on a federal level. Housing first options available in major metropolitan areas. Large institutions need to be set up to address mental health issues, not holders for severe cases but places where people can visit on a regular basis and get help. After working with countless people, I've come to the conclusion that people really don't know a) that it is okay to ask for help & b) know how to ask for help. The amount of people who come to the conclusion that things are hopeless and suicidal ideation being the reason that drives them to seek help is staggering.
posted by P.o.B. at 12:26 PM on March 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
Where are the homeless coming from? They’re mostly from here, service providers say
Read that previously and I wasn't to sure about those numbers. By and large it's probably mostly true as more and more people are getting squeezed out of viable places to live, but then again when we assess people we actually ask them whether they actually have their name on a lease AND their living history. Like this guy, there are quite a few people who come here for the services and/or... other reasons. Marking them down as having "lived" somewhere in Seattle doesn't necessarily mean they're from here. The University of Washington is considered as having one of the best social work programs in the nation. Liberal policy makers, service providers, free meals and social services are abundant in Seattle, but we don't have the services to realistically help people.
Changes need to happen on a federal level. Housing first options available in major metropolitan areas. Large institutions need to be set up to address mental health issues, not holders for severe cases but places where people can visit on a regular basis and get help. After working with countless people, I've come to the conclusion that people really don't know a) that it is okay to ask for help & b) know how to ask for help. The amount of people who come to the conclusion that things are hopeless and suicidal ideation being the reason that drives them to seek help is staggering.
posted by P.o.B. at 12:26 PM on March 29, 2016 [4 favorites]
Dude in the tree will come down eventually.
Well, there might have been some concern that he would come down fast, really fast, into traffic. This story could easily have been a lot sadder even if it's a less than great outcome.
posted by Hoopo at 12:27 PM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Well, there might have been some concern that he would come down fast, really fast, into traffic. This story could easily have been a lot sadder even if it's a less than great outcome.
posted by Hoopo at 12:27 PM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Did anyone consider that charging him, and the 50k bail, is the only way they could keep him off the streets in leu of the above?
There is undoubtably a procedure in Washington State for the police and social services to hold someone for involuntary commitment.
posted by zachlipton at 12:32 PM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
There is undoubtably a procedure in Washington State for the police and social services to hold someone for involuntary commitment.
posted by zachlipton at 12:32 PM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Ok, that was the kind of thing I was wondering about-- seems like the charge is indeed a retributive thing, unfortunately, sigh...
posted by smidgen at 12:36 PM on March 29, 2016
posted by smidgen at 12:36 PM on March 29, 2016
It is unfortunate that there aren't better services to take care of the mentally ill.
That 80-foot sequoia is a rare urban beauty that has been permanently mutilated, leaving its mark forever. Those stripped and broken branches will never grow back. Oh well, it's just a tree, I guess.
posted by JackFlash at 12:59 PM on March 29, 2016
That 80-foot sequoia is a rare urban beauty that has been permanently mutilated, leaving its mark forever. Those stripped and broken branches will never grow back. Oh well, it's just a tree, I guess.
posted by JackFlash at 12:59 PM on March 29, 2016
Sadly, being charged with a felony is maybe the only way to get him decent mental health services. King County has a pretty decent mental health court. This guy will almost certainly qualify. The way it works is that, once his case is moved from the standard felony track to mental health court, he has access to all sorts of pretty intensive, personalized resources and advocates. It's far from perfect but probably better than the alternative, which is basically just letting people be mentally ill on the sidewalk or under an overpass somewhere.
posted by bepe at 1:00 PM on March 29, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by bepe at 1:00 PM on March 29, 2016 [5 favorites]
battalion command staff
Just in case people don't know battalion command staves are coincidentally made out sequoia and do 4-40 damage and give +8 charisma.
posted by srboisvert at 1:03 PM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Just in case people don't know battalion command staves are coincidentally made out sequoia and do 4-40 damage and give +8 charisma.
posted by srboisvert at 1:03 PM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
+8 charisma.
I've spent a lot of time on battalion command staffs, and you have clearly got your + and - keys reversed.
posted by Etrigan at 1:09 PM on March 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
I've spent a lot of time on battalion command staffs, and you have clearly got your + and - keys reversed.
posted by Etrigan at 1:09 PM on March 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
More grist for my theory that having "Lee" somewhere in your name makes you more susceptible to madness and/or tragedy
posted by The Underpants Monster at 1:46 PM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 1:46 PM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Guys, guys. I think it's like that inflammable / flammable thing again.
posted by lucidium at 3:55 PM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by lucidium at 3:55 PM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Before everyone sharpens their pitchforks over Reagan's influence on the awful state of mental health funding, keep in mind that Reagan was enabling community-based mental health care efforts that were driven by ... wait for it ... earnest liberal forces upset over shoddy state and federal hospitals, as exemplified in a famous book by Ken Kesey.
Republicans were all too happy to shut down the targeted institutions and programs and turn it all over to someone else. Unfortunately, "someone else" turned out to be nobody.
So when you rail against mental health care and wished there were places we could put people, just keep in mind, we had them. And then Jack Nicholson won an Academy Award.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 4:49 PM on March 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
Republicans were all too happy to shut down the targeted institutions and programs and turn it all over to someone else. Unfortunately, "someone else" turned out to be nobody.
So when you rail against mental health care and wished there were places we could put people, just keep in mind, we had them. And then Jack Nicholson won an Academy Award.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 4:49 PM on March 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
I think it's probably more to do with the costs of getting an arborist out with equipment to do an assessment and remediation of any damage, rather than the actual dollar value of the branches at the top of the tree.
There are also published guides to the costs of damage to trees that they could be citing, though in reality it's somewhat fictitious to put a value on a tree like that. You can easily say what it is worth in merchantable timber, but of course urban trees provide aesthetic, environmental, and other benefits that aren't as easily quantified.
So when you rail against mental health care and wished there were places we could put people, just keep in mind, we had them. And then Jack Nicholson won an Academy Award.
The defunding and closing of the institutions happened in my lifetime and I can remember the sudden and shocking appearance of large-scale street homelessness. But it also happened simultaneous with the "starve the beast" Republican approach to social services in general -- it is one of those sad questions we will never know the answer to, what would have happened if mass institutionalization had been ended while simultaneously providing generous safety nets, community mental health services, and assisted housing? Instead people were just dumped on the streets and we've maintained that approach, along with a patchwork of criminally underfunded local safety nets, for the last thirty years.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:01 PM on March 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
There are also published guides to the costs of damage to trees that they could be citing, though in reality it's somewhat fictitious to put a value on a tree like that. You can easily say what it is worth in merchantable timber, but of course urban trees provide aesthetic, environmental, and other benefits that aren't as easily quantified.
So when you rail against mental health care and wished there were places we could put people, just keep in mind, we had them. And then Jack Nicholson won an Academy Award.
The defunding and closing of the institutions happened in my lifetime and I can remember the sudden and shocking appearance of large-scale street homelessness. But it also happened simultaneous with the "starve the beast" Republican approach to social services in general -- it is one of those sad questions we will never know the answer to, what would have happened if mass institutionalization had been ended while simultaneously providing generous safety nets, community mental health services, and assisted housing? Instead people were just dumped on the streets and we've maintained that approach, along with a patchwork of criminally underfunded local safety nets, for the last thirty years.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:01 PM on March 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
That 80-foot sequoia is a rare urban beauty that has been permanently mutilated, leaving its mark forever. Those stripped and broken branches will never grow back. Oh well, it's just a tree, I guess.
If it makes you feel any better, it was transplanted to 4th and Stewart from Aurora Ave as a 35-foot sequoia in 1973, and it was a 100-foot sequoia until it lost its crown in a windstorm in 2006. An arborist found it had a whopping 18 inches of rooting soil in 2010 (when it lost another 10 feet), and DOT drilled all around it and introduced duff to try to save it.
This guy might have delivered the kiss of death to this tree, but that mighty California redwood was moved into the middle of a barren asphalt street to be Macy's Christmas tree and has suffered ever since. To add insult to injury, they moved the Christmas tree lighting to Westlake Center in the early 1990s (but the neighbors have kept on with lighting the poor thing.)
posted by gingerest at 12:45 AM on March 30, 2016 [6 favorites]
If it makes you feel any better, it was transplanted to 4th and Stewart from Aurora Ave as a 35-foot sequoia in 1973, and it was a 100-foot sequoia until it lost its crown in a windstorm in 2006. An arborist found it had a whopping 18 inches of rooting soil in 2010 (when it lost another 10 feet), and DOT drilled all around it and introduced duff to try to save it.
This guy might have delivered the kiss of death to this tree, but that mighty California redwood was moved into the middle of a barren asphalt street to be Macy's Christmas tree and has suffered ever since. To add insult to injury, they moved the Christmas tree lighting to Westlake Center in the early 1990s (but the neighbors have kept on with lighting the poor thing.)
posted by gingerest at 12:45 AM on March 30, 2016 [6 favorites]
It seems like they are trying to make an example of him. Otherwise, I can't imagine a prosecutor wanting to charge someone with assault for throwing pinecones.
Unfortunately, peiple get charged with 3rd degree assault (that is, misdemeanor no-visible-injury assault raised to a felony when directed against police, city officials, or teachers) for all kinds of minor things, including spitting; resisting arrest; an officer getting stuck by a needle in your pocket while they unconstitutionally search you; and a teacher breaking up a fight at school. It's just that most of the time, the incidents are not getting this kind of media attention, so people simply do not notice.
posted by likeatoaster at 5:01 AM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately, peiple get charged with 3rd degree assault (that is, misdemeanor no-visible-injury assault raised to a felony when directed against police, city officials, or teachers) for all kinds of minor things, including spitting; resisting arrest; an officer getting stuck by a needle in your pocket while they unconstitutionally search you; and a teacher breaking up a fight at school. It's just that most of the time, the incidents are not getting this kind of media attention, so people simply do not notice.
posted by likeatoaster at 5:01 AM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yes, well, we have to make an example. The next time someone with mental illness in Seattle is delusional, they'll be more sensible.
posted by krinklyfig at 7:10 AM on March 30, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by krinklyfig at 7:10 AM on March 30, 2016 [4 favorites]
Did Cody Miller's tree stay help push WA Legislature to increase funding for support for the homeless and mentally ill? Probably not. But they just made a budget deal in Olympia this week. About $40 million more for mental health and $17 million more for homelessness.
posted by Cassford at 10:33 PM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Cassford at 10:33 PM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
Meanwhile in sunny Seattle, 15 shelters are closing.
I had some meaningful long form post to write before I saw that article, but now all I'd really stick alongside this is that "(screams internally)" image macro if we still had the img tag...
posted by emptythought at 7:28 AM on March 31, 2016 [1 favorite]
I had some meaningful long form post to write before I saw that article, but now all I'd really stick alongside this is that "(screams internally)" image macro if we still had the img tag...
posted by emptythought at 7:28 AM on March 31, 2016 [1 favorite]
Seattle attorney: Cutting down 150 trees is definitely not a mistake
posted by y2karl at 3:20 PM on March 31, 2016
posted by y2karl at 3:20 PM on March 31, 2016
I really don't understand why "we paid them to go onto someone elses' property and cut off just *part* of the trees" is considered some kind of defense. You didn't have permission to chop off just the tops either, and it's a crime either way.
posted by tavella at 3:37 PM on March 31, 2016
posted by tavella at 3:37 PM on March 31, 2016
Meanwhile in sunny Seattle, 15 shelters are closing.
This really sucks considering a lot of my clients like the SHARE shelters.
posted by P.o.B. at 4:08 PM on April 4, 2016
This really sucks considering a lot of my clients like the SHARE shelters.
posted by P.o.B. at 4:08 PM on April 4, 2016
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posted by Perplexity at 8:44 AM on March 29, 2016 [7 favorites]