The biggest shakeup for dinosaurs since that big space rock.
March 22, 2017 5:45 PM Subscribe
Ornithoscelida Rises: A New Family Tree for Dinosaurs
Today sees the publication of a significant new technical paper on dinosaur phylogeny. And it’s a game-changer or watershed study, one of those that will get cited a phenomenal amount and result in a distinct pre- and post-2017 marker in the literature. The paper concerned – published in Nature and authored by Matthew Baron, David Norman and Paul Barrett – argues that the consensus view of dinosaur phylogeny is inaccurate, that Saurischia of convention (the sauropodomorph + theropod clade) is not monophyletic, and that theropods are closer to ornithischians than they are to sauropodomorphs (Baron et al. 2017). This is surprising stuff in view of the apparently robust, conventional and well-supported view that Saurischia of traditional is natural, a hypothesis that has been well bolstered by substantial study and the gradual accruing of data.If you don't happen to be a big dinosaur nerd, just know that this is a bonkers development.
So, Tyrannosaurus Rex "tyrant lizard king" should now be Tyrannobird Rex.
Doesn't have quite the same scare factor.
posted by artdrectr at 6:14 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Doesn't have quite the same scare factor.
posted by artdrectr at 6:14 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm rereading Jurassic Park right now so this is just kinda a lot to handle. I'm gonna need some time.
His visual acuity is based on movement. Velociraptors are six feet tall. No feathers. His visual acuity is based on movement. Velociraptors are six feet tall. No feathers. His visual acuity is based on movement. Velociraptors are six feet tall. No feathers. Aaaahhhhhhh!!
posted by phunniemee at 6:31 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
His visual acuity is based on movement. Velociraptors are six feet tall. No feathers. His visual acuity is based on movement. Velociraptors are six feet tall. No feathers. His visual acuity is based on movement. Velociraptors are six feet tall. No feathers. Aaaahhhhhhh!!
posted by phunniemee at 6:31 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh, what I'd give to spend some time around a campfire in Ekalaka this summer!
posted by Big Al 8000 at 7:08 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Big Al 8000 at 7:08 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
I, for one, am not surprised.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 7:26 PM on March 22, 2017
posted by WalkerWestridge at 7:26 PM on March 22, 2017
Details... Details... I just want to be sure that pigeons are still dinosaurs
Yep. You're all good on that count.
posted by brundlefly at 7:49 PM on March 22, 2017
Yep. You're all good on that count.
posted by brundlefly at 7:49 PM on March 22, 2017
Okay, I have a lot of concerns about what this will mean for Dinosaur Train, and all the dino facts I have learned from Dinosaur Train. Like, I don't know how Buddy is going to cope with Eoraptor not being a therapod, and Orinthomimus being more closely related to T. Rex than Brachiosaurus??? THIS IS GOING TO REQUIRE A LOT OF RETCONNING.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:46 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:46 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
“ornithischians have bird-like hips, except for some that might not, and some saurischians – which are called lizard-hipped dinosaurs, even though their hips don’t look like those of lizards – also have bird-like hips, most notably birds, which are bird-hipped saurischians even though they aren’t bird-hipped dinosaurs, although they actually are”This has always bugged me, so I support this change.
posted by eruonna at 9:38 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
The paper also implies that the Saltopus - AKA world's first dinosaur - was cat sized and Scottish. Nessie must be fluffing her feathers with pride this morning.
posted by rongorongo at 11:10 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by rongorongo at 11:10 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
"Lizard-hipped dinosaur" was just a lava-field insult, anyway. It's long past time that we should discard it.
Also, I'm pretty sure it's something Marsh shouted at Cope during a drunken altercation, and giving those guys attention just encourages them.
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:29 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Also, I'm pretty sure it's something Marsh shouted at Cope during a drunken altercation, and giving those guys attention just encourages them.
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:29 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Wow, yeah, that's totally bonkers, and also makes me want to go back and really look at both the old model and also the new paper.
posted by Akhu at 5:09 AM on March 23, 2017
posted by Akhu at 5:09 AM on March 23, 2017
Was this intentionally posted immediately after the beanplating entry? The timing is amazing.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 6:45 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 6:45 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
His visual acuity is based on movement. Velociraptors are six feet tall. No feathers.
The process of engineering the dinosaurs from amphibian and lizard DNA explains most of the weird discrepancies in that book, especially considering that the events of the book were set in 1987 or so, when the idea that dinosaurs had feathers was still somewhat fringe. My headcanon has always been that some of the prototype versions had feathers but Dr. Wu rejected them as being obviously faulty before actively suppressing the feather growth in subsequent versions.
Anyway, phylogeny is hard. On the one hand, it makes sense that the "bird-hipped" dinosaurs would be more closely related to the theropods than to the sauropods. On the other hand, the theropods don't have frigging bird hips, except for the branch that actually has birds in it. Unless there was a common ancestor between all three and birds aren't actually theropods or else branched off from the other theropods really early?? (The latter might actually be plausible, IIRC there were birds as far back as the triassic.)
posted by tobascodagama at 9:26 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
The process of engineering the dinosaurs from amphibian and lizard DNA explains most of the weird discrepancies in that book, especially considering that the events of the book were set in 1987 or so, when the idea that dinosaurs had feathers was still somewhat fringe. My headcanon has always been that some of the prototype versions had feathers but Dr. Wu rejected them as being obviously faulty before actively suppressing the feather growth in subsequent versions.
Anyway, phylogeny is hard. On the one hand, it makes sense that the "bird-hipped" dinosaurs would be more closely related to the theropods than to the sauropods. On the other hand, the theropods don't have frigging bird hips, except for the branch that actually has birds in it. Unless there was a common ancestor between all three and birds aren't actually theropods or else branched off from the other theropods really early?? (The latter might actually be plausible, IIRC there were birds as far back as the triassic.)
posted by tobascodagama at 9:26 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'd love to go back and visit my 4-year-old self and ask, "Wanna see a dinosaur?"
posted by lagomorphius at 10:23 AM on March 23, 2017
posted by lagomorphius at 10:23 AM on March 23, 2017
Unless there was a common ancestor between all three and birds aren't actually theropods or else branched off from the other theropods really early?? (The latter might actually be plausible, IIRC there were birds as far back as the triassic.)
The earliest birds (i.e. avialans) appear in the mid-Jurassic (~160 mya) but they fall quite deep in the theropod tree, with coelophysids, ceratosaurs, megalosaurs, allosaurs, tyrannosaurs, ornithomimids, and other families branching off before you get to the well-known clade Maniraptora, which includes avialans, dromaeosaurs (e.g. Velociraptor), oviraptorids, and other similar groups.
posted by likethemagician at 12:15 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
The earliest birds (i.e. avialans) appear in the mid-Jurassic (~160 mya) but they fall quite deep in the theropod tree, with coelophysids, ceratosaurs, megalosaurs, allosaurs, tyrannosaurs, ornithomimids, and other families branching off before you get to the well-known clade Maniraptora, which includes avialans, dromaeosaurs (e.g. Velociraptor), oviraptorids, and other similar groups.
posted by likethemagician at 12:15 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Dinosaurs went extinct because they realized how awesome it was that they were dinosaurs. They were killed by the shock.
posted by XMLicious at 11:54 PM on March 26, 2017
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posted by njohnson23 at 6:05 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]