“self-interest dominates our behavior”
April 4, 2017 8:29 PM Subscribe
Why You Shouldn’t Walk on Escalators [The New York Times] “It may sound counterintuitive, but researchers said it is more efficient if nobody walks on the escalator. To be clear, this is not better for the escalator itself, although that has been a matter of dispute. The question of standing versus walking flared up recently in Washington, D.C., after the general manager of the Metro, Paul Wiedefeld, said the practice of walking on the left and standing to the right — as outlined in the Metro’s rules and manners — could damage the escalator. The escalator company Otis said that was incorrect, an NBC affiliate reported, and Mr. Wiedefeld clarified that standing two abreast would be safer and reduce the chance of falls if everyone did it.”
WMATA has managed, in the 25+ years that I've been a regular user, to raise the common escalator to a central prop in an grim, absurdist spectacle worthy of Alfred Jarry. All standards of user experience design, basic maintenance specs, and common sense have been abandoned and doubled down upon so many times that it's hard to see a way out that doesn't involve, say, planking over the existing ones and turning them into slides, or allowing them to fall gradually into ruin and grind to a halt, eventually being replaced by gentle mossy slopes into the abyss.
posted by ryanshepard at 8:44 PM on April 4, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by ryanshepard at 8:44 PM on April 4, 2017 [23 favorites]
The research utterly fails to take into account the sheer number of people (largely non-commuters) who have NO IDEA how to disembark an escalator safely. The change in speed causes them to hesitate, or they stop right at the end because they're not sure where to go next, or they just naturally walk at a slower pace than the escalator operates. I will always walk on the left side, not because I'm selfish and in a hurry, but specifically to avoid getting caught in the dangerous jams caused by well-meaning but inexperienced escalator users.
posted by zebra at 8:45 PM on April 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by zebra at 8:45 PM on April 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
It also fails to take into account the possibility of everybody walking.
I realize that's not actually possible, but surely, if we're talking purely abstract models where the options are "walk" and "don't walk," that would beat out nobody walking?
Edit: beaten to it by middleclasstool, who is clearly the ultimate walker.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 8:48 PM on April 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
I realize that's not actually possible, but surely, if we're talking purely abstract models where the options are "walk" and "don't walk," that would beat out nobody walking?
Edit: beaten to it by middleclasstool, who is clearly the ultimate walker.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 8:48 PM on April 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Imagine how much faster it would be if everyone walked.
It also fails to take into account the possibility of everybody walking.
If by that you mean "It takes into account the undeniable fact that not everyone is able to walk up an escalator, at least not easily, and certainly not at the same speed"...
This sounds a whole lot like the efficiency studies promoting zippering in traffic (previously).
posted by supercres at 8:53 PM on April 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
It also fails to take into account the possibility of everybody walking.
If by that you mean "It takes into account the undeniable fact that not everyone is able to walk up an escalator, at least not easily, and certainly not at the same speed"...
This sounds a whole lot like the efficiency studies promoting zippering in traffic (previously).
posted by supercres at 8:53 PM on April 4, 2017 [10 favorites]
Ha, I definitely did not even notice that this article was in the "Related Coverage" on NYT.
posted by supercres at 8:57 PM on April 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by supercres at 8:57 PM on April 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah, sure, it's better for the people who stand if everyone does. It's also worse for the people who'd otherwise have walked. In other news, water is wet, and the Pope is Catholic.
posted by Shmuel510 at 9:08 PM on April 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Shmuel510 at 9:08 PM on April 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
If I walk up the stairs of an upwards-moving escalator, I get to the top quicker than if I had simply stood on one of the stairs. If I walk down the stairs of a downwards-moving escalator, I get to the bottom quicker than if I had simply stood on one of the stairs.
I have tested this on hundreds different kinds of makes, models, heighths, depths, widths, and speedths of escalator, all across this great and escalator-rich country of ours, and it has held true: walking up/down an escalator gets you up/down quicker.
There are only two possible "efficiencies" that can be achieved by an escalator: velocity and capacity. Walking up/down a moving escalator increases your velocity, which gets you off the escalator quicker, which increases its capacity. It is therefore a double-win and thus the best way to use an escalator.
HOWEVER I will concede that walking down an escalator is an inherently risky procedure, as you approach terminal velocity thanks to two locomotive forces (your legs, and the escalator itself), and one gravitational force (gravity). In fact, for particularly "deep" or "tall" escalators, depending on which end you're looking at it from, it's downright terrifying.
Ultimate downwards efficiency (velocity, capacity, and a new third variable, enjoyment) would be achieved if downwards-moving escalators were replaced by slippery-dips. Upwards efficiency could be improved by other escalator users getting the fuck out of my way as my powerful legs propel me skywards.
Thank you for your attention.
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:18 PM on April 4, 2017 [34 favorites]
I have tested this on hundreds different kinds of makes, models, heighths, depths, widths, and speedths of escalator, all across this great and escalator-rich country of ours, and it has held true: walking up/down an escalator gets you up/down quicker.
There are only two possible "efficiencies" that can be achieved by an escalator: velocity and capacity. Walking up/down a moving escalator increases your velocity, which gets you off the escalator quicker, which increases its capacity. It is therefore a double-win and thus the best way to use an escalator.
HOWEVER I will concede that walking down an escalator is an inherently risky procedure, as you approach terminal velocity thanks to two locomotive forces (your legs, and the escalator itself), and one gravitational force (gravity). In fact, for particularly "deep" or "tall" escalators, depending on which end you're looking at it from, it's downright terrifying.
Ultimate downwards efficiency (velocity, capacity, and a new third variable, enjoyment) would be achieved if downwards-moving escalators were replaced by slippery-dips. Upwards efficiency could be improved by other escalator users getting the fuck out of my way as my powerful legs propel me skywards.
Thank you for your attention.
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:18 PM on April 4, 2017 [34 favorites]
Yeah, sure, it's better for the people who stand if everyone does. It's also worse for the people who'd otherwise have walked.
Only if there's no line to get on the escalator. Or if there's two separate lines for walkers and standers, which I've never seen.
posted by straight at 9:21 PM on April 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Only if there's no line to get on the escalator. Or if there's two separate lines for walkers and standers, which I've never seen.
posted by straight at 9:21 PM on April 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
>two separate lines for walkers and standers, which I've never seen.
I see double lines all the time here in Tokyo.
One problem with everyone standing two abreast is that when a train is just pulling in, some people higher on the escalator will miss the train if everyone continues standing still, whereas if there were a lane for walking then the people who want to catch that train can walk rapidly, and the people who prefer to stand, and happen to be taking a different train on the opposite platform, can remain standing still.
posted by Umami Dearest at 9:34 PM on April 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
I see double lines all the time here in Tokyo.
One problem with everyone standing two abreast is that when a train is just pulling in, some people higher on the escalator will miss the train if everyone continues standing still, whereas if there were a lane for walking then the people who want to catch that train can walk rapidly, and the people who prefer to stand, and happen to be taking a different train on the opposite platform, can remain standing still.
posted by Umami Dearest at 9:34 PM on April 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
Is this something I'd have to arrive early to the airport to understand?
posted by oceanjesse at 9:45 PM on April 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by oceanjesse at 9:45 PM on April 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
I have never seen any crowd observing the standing/walking rules on escalators in the New York subway system, so this all seems largely intellectual to me. People seem to stand where they please while those in a hurry vainly attempt to Frogger around them. That said, I'm always happy for any form of escalator instead of endless stairs, or god forbid, pee-soaked elevators.
posted by retrograde at 9:53 PM on April 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by retrograde at 9:53 PM on April 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Japan has been trying to get people to stop walking on the escalators for a while now.
It has not been very successful as far as I can tell, and this is a country where the vast majority of people wait for the signal to cross the street and carry their trash forever until there's a (rare) place to get rid of it, etc. So I'm not very hopeful this will take off anywhere, regardless of merit.
posted by thefoxgod at 9:58 PM on April 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
It has not been very successful as far as I can tell, and this is a country where the vast majority of people wait for the signal to cross the street and carry their trash forever until there's a (rare) place to get rid of it, etc. So I'm not very hopeful this will take off anywhere, regardless of merit.
posted by thefoxgod at 9:58 PM on April 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
But not everyone needs to save a minute or two by racing up escalators and then legging it down the street so they don't get docked pay for being late....
posted by lesbiassparrow at 10:10 PM on April 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by lesbiassparrow at 10:10 PM on April 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Walking up/down a moving escalator increases your velocity, which gets you off the escalator quicker, which increases its capacity.
No! In network speak, you're improving latency, but decreasing overall bandwidth. Optimal capacity is to pack 2 people on every step. You can't get that capacity with walkers. They easily need 2 or 3 steps per person to account for gait.
That said, one side for walkers and one for standers is the only acceptable protocol. Screw escalator net-neutrality. We need fast lanes.
posted by rh at 10:26 PM on April 4, 2017 [33 favorites]
No! In network speak, you're improving latency, but decreasing overall bandwidth. Optimal capacity is to pack 2 people on every step. You can't get that capacity with walkers. They easily need 2 or 3 steps per person to account for gait.
That said, one side for walkers and one for standers is the only acceptable protocol. Screw escalator net-neutrality. We need fast lanes.
posted by rh at 10:26 PM on April 4, 2017 [33 favorites]
standing two abreast would be safer and reduce the chance of falls if everyone did it.”
and if we all wore helmets and full body armor, we'd be even safer.
I usually walk up an escalator because I hear it's good for me -- walking up stairs of any kind
posted by philip-random at 10:30 PM on April 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
and if we all wore helmets and full body armor, we'd be even safer.
I usually walk up an escalator because I hear it's good for me -- walking up stairs of any kind
posted by philip-random at 10:30 PM on April 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Since I feel like there was some confusion the last time standing vs. walking on an escalator came up, it's worth pointing out that this study explicitly says that this only applies to escalators over 60 feet, which is quite tall for an escalator. That does make it especially appropriate for the DC Metro, since it has some of the longest escalators in the Western Hemisphere. Having traveled on them, I can tell you how many people ever choose to walk up a 250 foot escalator: basically none. If the escalator is long enough that almost no one is walking, double-standing is better. None of this applies to the escalators you're probably taking that are only going up one story.
posted by Copronymus at 10:30 PM on April 4, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Copronymus at 10:30 PM on April 4, 2017 [11 favorites]
I live in San Francisco. If I didn't walk on the escalators when riding public transit, I'd just be standing there stupefied, because our escalators never work.
posted by zachlipton at 10:49 PM on April 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:49 PM on April 4, 2017 [12 favorites]
Based on my experience, most people in Chicago understand the basic escalator rules re standing vs walking. Those who don't, like my sister-in-law, who lives in a small town w/out a single escalator and innocently stood on the left, will likely hear from those trying to come up from behind.
Frankly, I've never understood why able-bodied people who aren't burdened with packages or children stand on escalators. The boredom factor of the ride is enough to keep me moving.
posted by she's not there at 10:56 PM on April 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
Frankly, I've never understood why able-bodied people who aren't burdened with packages or children stand on escalators. The boredom factor of the ride is enough to keep me moving.
posted by she's not there at 10:56 PM on April 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
The framing of walking as anti-altruism is weird, as if optimal use of space according to a computer model should dictate how people behave.
People have different natural walking speeds, some people are always inclined to move forward quickly and find standing stressful, some people rush situationally, some people are disinclined to hurry, some people are wrangling kids, some people find walking on escalators uncomfortable and thus always stand...we share narrow spaces in a social contract that mostly-but-not-perfectly accommodates variable navigation needs.
posted by desuetude at 11:21 PM on April 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
People have different natural walking speeds, some people are always inclined to move forward quickly and find standing stressful, some people rush situationally, some people are disinclined to hurry, some people are wrangling kids, some people find walking on escalators uncomfortable and thus always stand...we share narrow spaces in a social contract that mostly-but-not-perfectly accommodates variable navigation needs.
posted by desuetude at 11:21 PM on April 4, 2017 [9 favorites]
Optimal capacity is to pack 2 people on every step.
We can get that up to 4 per step if piggybacking is mandatory.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 11:24 PM on April 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
We can get that up to 4 per step if piggybacking is mandatory.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 11:24 PM on April 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm someone you wouldn't understand. Until now!
Back in high school, me and my friends used to walk through a mall after school to get to the bus stop. There was an escalator. I loved the sensation of riding the escalator. I promised myself that I would always stand on escalators, unless I needed to use the loo or something, because I didn't want to rush through life.
There aren't really any escalators in my life so I never had cause to reconsider that decision.
Unexpected side-effect: after half a lifetime of standing when on escalators, walking on an escalator is now the sensational experience.
Speaking of escalators, there was this one time my dad told us that if we could walk up the down escalator backwards, he'd give us a quarter. (Low-traffic department store, stay out of the way of downward-bound passengers.) We spent an HOUR trying to go up that down escalator, and I don't think we ever got more than halfway. It was the most fun.
posted by aniola at 11:24 PM on April 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
Back in high school, me and my friends used to walk through a mall after school to get to the bus stop. There was an escalator. I loved the sensation of riding the escalator. I promised myself that I would always stand on escalators, unless I needed to use the loo or something, because I didn't want to rush through life.
There aren't really any escalators in my life so I never had cause to reconsider that decision.
Unexpected side-effect: after half a lifetime of standing when on escalators, walking on an escalator is now the sensational experience.
Speaking of escalators, there was this one time my dad told us that if we could walk up the down escalator backwards, he'd give us a quarter. (Low-traffic department store, stay out of the way of downward-bound passengers.) We spent an HOUR trying to go up that down escalator, and I don't think we ever got more than halfway. It was the most fun.
posted by aniola at 11:24 PM on April 4, 2017 [8 favorites]
Frankly, I've never understood why able-bodied people who aren't burdened with packages or children stand on escalators. The boredom factor of the ride is enough to keep me moving.
It's a selfish and reckless solution because if everyone did it no one could, but I turn and face in the opposite direction-- the novelty reduces the perceived passage of time and reverses any hurried anticipation.
No! In network speak, you're improving latency, but decreasing overall bandwidth. Optimal capacity is to pack 2 people on every step. You can't get that capacity with walkers. They easily need 2 or 3 steps per person to account for gait.
O M G...an illustrative analogy of networks and computers that isn't a car...YOU are a wizard.
posted by lazycomputerkids at 12:04 AM on April 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
It's a selfish and reckless solution because if everyone did it no one could, but I turn and face in the opposite direction-- the novelty reduces the perceived passage of time and reverses any hurried anticipation.
No! In network speak, you're improving latency, but decreasing overall bandwidth. Optimal capacity is to pack 2 people on every step. You can't get that capacity with walkers. They easily need 2 or 3 steps per person to account for gait.
O M G...an illustrative analogy of networks and computers that isn't a car...YOU are a wizard.
posted by lazycomputerkids at 12:04 AM on April 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
We can get that up to 4 per step if piggybacking is mandatory.
4 per step isn't even trying (SLYT)...
posted by MikeKD at 12:43 AM on April 5, 2017
4 per step isn't even trying (SLYT)...
posted by MikeKD at 12:43 AM on April 5, 2017
Having traveled on them, I can tell you how many people ever choose to walk up a 250 foot escalator: basically none.
Except me! In fact, in all the years I worked in DC (Dupont, specifically), I didn't just walk up the escalator, I went up at sort of a rapid run/jog. This was partly motivated by my being late to work every day, but it was also fun!
I remember how the escalator itself became a gauge of my physical fitness. The escalator was long enough that at first, I couldn't run all the way to the top; there was a point at which my legs would give out and turn to rubber, and I'd have to stop and catch my breath. But over the course of maybe six months, I noticed that my rubberlegs point kept getting higher and higher up the escalator, closer and closer to the top. Finally, one day I made it all the way to without needing to stop. It felt like the biggest victory!
Eventually I had done it long enough that I wasn't even tired when I got out of the station. I could just keep jogging all the way to my job, which shaved several minutes off of my commute so that I was merely 15 minutes late every day instead of my usual 20.
Anyway, I'm just one person, so that doesn't change the "basically none" statement, but I hadn't thought about my Dupont Metro station fitness routine in a long time.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 12:43 AM on April 5, 2017 [17 favorites]
Except me! In fact, in all the years I worked in DC (Dupont, specifically), I didn't just walk up the escalator, I went up at sort of a rapid run/jog. This was partly motivated by my being late to work every day, but it was also fun!
I remember how the escalator itself became a gauge of my physical fitness. The escalator was long enough that at first, I couldn't run all the way to the top; there was a point at which my legs would give out and turn to rubber, and I'd have to stop and catch my breath. But over the course of maybe six months, I noticed that my rubberlegs point kept getting higher and higher up the escalator, closer and closer to the top. Finally, one day I made it all the way to without needing to stop. It felt like the biggest victory!
Eventually I had done it long enough that I wasn't even tired when I got out of the station. I could just keep jogging all the way to my job, which shaved several minutes off of my commute so that I was merely 15 minutes late every day instead of my usual 20.
Anyway, I'm just one person, so that doesn't change the "basically none" statement, but I hadn't thought about my Dupont Metro station fitness routine in a long time.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 12:43 AM on April 5, 2017 [17 favorites]
As someone who grew up in the DC area and used to commute by Metro, I have no pity: stand to the right, walk to the left or be spoken sharply to, trampled and/or revealed as the tourist you are (as if the fanny pack and outsized camera didn't give it away already).
I still run up escalators, the longer the better.
posted by killdevil at 12:48 AM on April 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
I still run up escalators, the longer the better.
posted by killdevil at 12:48 AM on April 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
Shmuel510: Yeah, sure, it's better for the people who stand if everyone does. It's also worse for the people who'd otherwise have walked. In other news, water is wet, and the Pope is Catholic.
Not at peak times: the problem then is that demand exceeds the capacity of the escalator, so queues develop that block access to the bottom whether you’re in a hurry or not. At peak times you want everyone to stand two abreast to maximise the capacity of the escalator and so minimise total queuing time regardless of which group you fall into.
(They ran a trial doing precisely this at peak times on the London Tube last year.)
posted by pharm at 2:16 AM on April 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
Not at peak times: the problem then is that demand exceeds the capacity of the escalator, so queues develop that block access to the bottom whether you’re in a hurry or not. At peak times you want everyone to stand two abreast to maximise the capacity of the escalator and so minimise total queuing time regardless of which group you fall into.
(They ran a trial doing precisely this at peak times on the London Tube last year.)
posted by pharm at 2:16 AM on April 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
This is very much an empiricist view of the problem; we need an intuitionist.
posted by chavenet at 2:21 AM on April 5, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by chavenet at 2:21 AM on April 5, 2017 [6 favorites]
Results of the Holborn escalator trial (London).
posted by edd at 2:29 AM on April 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by edd at 2:29 AM on April 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
My guess would be yes? The same criteria would seem to apply: walking people take up more space than standing ones, so the walkway has a greater maximum throughput when everyone stands together than if some walk & some stand.
posted by pharm at 3:20 AM on April 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by pharm at 3:20 AM on April 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
I usually just use the normal staircase and stay off those infernal contraptions.
posted by octothorpe at 3:55 AM on April 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by octothorpe at 3:55 AM on April 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
No! In network speak, you're improving latency, but decreasing overall bandwidth. Optimal capacity is to pack 2 people on every step. You can't get that capacity with walkers. They easily need 2 or 3 steps per person to account for gait.
But wouldn't the bandwidth - people ferried by the escalator a minute - be at least potentially greater for the walkers, despite their packing ineffeciency? Like, you don't get two per step like you do with standers, but each person also spends less time on the escalator, so as long as the reduction in time has a greater multiplicative effect on throughput than lowered space efficiency does, bandwidth should still be greater, no?
posted by Dysk at 4:01 AM on April 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
But wouldn't the bandwidth - people ferried by the escalator a minute - be at least potentially greater for the walkers, despite their packing ineffeciency? Like, you don't get two per step like you do with standers, but each person also spends less time on the escalator, so as long as the reduction in time has a greater multiplicative effect on throughput than lowered space efficiency does, bandwidth should still be greater, no?
posted by Dysk at 4:01 AM on April 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
Does anyone know what the best app is to track my efficiency and performance on escalators? It would be great if it also shares that data to my friends on social media. Or maybe there is some kind of dedicated wearable device for this.
posted by thelonius at 4:09 AM on April 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 4:09 AM on April 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
The above-ground subway station near my home has two narrow escalators, one up, one down. They aren't wide enough to allow a standing and walking side, but if the standee takes pity on the walker they can squeeze over to let them by. As far as the down part, if I position myself closest to the stairs and get to the escalator before anybody else, that's a subway win. Being stuck behind a bunch of people who appear to be capable of walking down an escalator and choose not to is one of my biggest NYC-specific peeves.
It's great to see that I'm not the only escalator jogger! When I was commuting out to Jersey City, there is a very long escalator at the Exchnge Place PATH station and I always liked the interval work of running all the way up, or walking if I was taking it easy.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 4:55 AM on April 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's great to see that I'm not the only escalator jogger! When I was commuting out to Jersey City, there is a very long escalator at the Exchnge Place PATH station and I always liked the interval work of running all the way up, or walking if I was taking it easy.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 4:55 AM on April 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm sort of more interested in solving the issue with public transit and people putting their bags next to them. I take public transit everyday and this is a common problem I experience. Mostly, I want to be left alone when on public transit, but I believe in it so strongly that I also believe everyone should have somewhere to sit and that putting my bag on a seat is effectively rude and diminishes the city's capacity to transport people. I completely understand that a lot of people face problems when on public transit, especially since it is a microcosm of the "general population", so I presume that there is no fix for this.
My biggest issue, however, is people getting off the busses by walking off the front instead of going to the back door, which is such a normalized thing on the busses here in Portland. If it's rush hour and a large group of people are getting on the bus through the front, and a large group of people leaving the bus but splitting their exits between the front AND back door, how much time is being wasted, and how much more efficient would TriMet be if they instituted a hardline policy of making people exit via the back? This is seriously aggravating to me. It's amazing seeing basically two groups of people attempt to exit the bus at different doorways, getting in each other's ways to get to their preferred exit, with the front door exiters basically forcing anyone attempting to get on the bus to wait, instead of everyone exiting through the back in a simple, orderly fashion, while people at the bus stop simultaneously walk on. Ugh.
posted by gucci mane at 4:59 AM on April 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
My biggest issue, however, is people getting off the busses by walking off the front instead of going to the back door, which is such a normalized thing on the busses here in Portland. If it's rush hour and a large group of people are getting on the bus through the front, and a large group of people leaving the bus but splitting their exits between the front AND back door, how much time is being wasted, and how much more efficient would TriMet be if they instituted a hardline policy of making people exit via the back? This is seriously aggravating to me. It's amazing seeing basically two groups of people attempt to exit the bus at different doorways, getting in each other's ways to get to their preferred exit, with the front door exiters basically forcing anyone attempting to get on the bus to wait, instead of everyone exiting through the back in a simple, orderly fashion, while people at the bus stop simultaneously walk on. Ugh.
posted by gucci mane at 4:59 AM on April 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hurray! We're talking about the DC Metro! This gives me a chance to trot out my favorite public-service announcement:
Remember, kids, friends don't let friends build two-track municipal rail transit. Oh, sure, it *seems* faster and cheaper to build than four-track systems, like New York's - but any serious maintenance forces trains to "single-track," causing massive delays. Which means that maintenance gets deferred, for years. And then you get loads of exciting failures!
p.s. Also, never put carpet on public transit. Just don't. That drunken intern vomiting in the corner will explain why.
posted by Mr. Excellent at 5:06 AM on April 5, 2017 [8 favorites]
Remember, kids, friends don't let friends build two-track municipal rail transit. Oh, sure, it *seems* faster and cheaper to build than four-track systems, like New York's - but any serious maintenance forces trains to "single-track," causing massive delays. Which means that maintenance gets deferred, for years. And then you get loads of exciting failures!
p.s. Also, never put carpet on public transit. Just don't. That drunken intern vomiting in the corner will explain why.
posted by Mr. Excellent at 5:06 AM on April 5, 2017 [8 favorites]
p.s. Also, never put carpet on public transit. Just don't. That drunken intern vomiting in the corner will explain why.
When I was living in London, a report came out that was in all the papers about the carpeted seats on the Tube. Apparently, every seat has, on average, nine bodily fluids on it. My reaction was pretty much: NINE!? I didn't even know there were that many! Does poo count as a bodily fluid, or just diarrhea? How many bodily fluids are there!? (Checks Wikipedia) TWENTY-SEVEN!?!? JESUS CHRIST! HUMANS ARE DISGUSTING!!!
posted by sexyrobot at 5:28 AM on April 5, 2017 [11 favorites]
When I was living in London, a report came out that was in all the papers about the carpeted seats on the Tube. Apparently, every seat has, on average, nine bodily fluids on it. My reaction was pretty much: NINE!? I didn't even know there were that many! Does poo count as a bodily fluid, or just diarrhea? How many bodily fluids are there!? (Checks Wikipedia) TWENTY-SEVEN!?!? JESUS CHRIST! HUMANS ARE DISGUSTING!!!
posted by sexyrobot at 5:28 AM on April 5, 2017 [11 favorites]
Yeah but if I don't walk on the escalator it feels like time is slipping away as I stand with the bloated dead horse people staring at their phones
posted by agregoli at 5:50 AM on April 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by agregoli at 5:50 AM on April 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
But wouldn't the bandwidth - people ferried by the escalator a minute - be at least potentially greater for the walkers, despite their packing ineffeciency?
Yep! Standing vs. walking doesn't have a clear answer -- it's a question of escalator speed vs. stair-climbing speed, plus relative packing density, which you really have to just measure with actual people.
For example, imagine a super slow escalator that only goes up one step per minute. In the right lane you have standers, and one stander gets off the escalator per minute. In the left lane you have Superman, who is such a fast climber that he's able to climb the whole escalator 1,000 times per second. On this escalator (ignoring time dilation effects), climbing is 60,000 times as efficient as standing.
Now gradually speed up the escalator until it starts to approach the speed of a real escalator, and gradually slow down Superman until he starts to approach the speed of an Earth person. More and more people per minute start getting through the standing lane, and fewer and fewer start getting through the climbing lane. At some point the two numbers potentially cross over. For example, if the escalator was rising one step per second, and each climber required three stairs of room, and each climber was able to climb two stairs per second, then the climbing lane and standing lanes would be exactly balanced. If you speed up the escalator, or spread out the climbers, or slow down the climbers, then standing starts to win (as studies so far suggest it does in practice).
Now here's the interesting part. Suppose we continue speeding up the escalator and slowing down the climbers, until we have the reverse of the original scenario. The escalator rises 1,000 steps per second, while climbers are only able to go up one additional step per minute. I realize this sounds impractical, but I think it's worth trying.
posted by john hadron collider at 5:53 AM on April 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yep! Standing vs. walking doesn't have a clear answer -- it's a question of escalator speed vs. stair-climbing speed, plus relative packing density, which you really have to just measure with actual people.
For example, imagine a super slow escalator that only goes up one step per minute. In the right lane you have standers, and one stander gets off the escalator per minute. In the left lane you have Superman, who is such a fast climber that he's able to climb the whole escalator 1,000 times per second. On this escalator (ignoring time dilation effects), climbing is 60,000 times as efficient as standing.
Now gradually speed up the escalator until it starts to approach the speed of a real escalator, and gradually slow down Superman until he starts to approach the speed of an Earth person. More and more people per minute start getting through the standing lane, and fewer and fewer start getting through the climbing lane. At some point the two numbers potentially cross over. For example, if the escalator was rising one step per second, and each climber required three stairs of room, and each climber was able to climb two stairs per second, then the climbing lane and standing lanes would be exactly balanced. If you speed up the escalator, or spread out the climbers, or slow down the climbers, then standing starts to win (as studies so far suggest it does in practice).
Now here's the interesting part. Suppose we continue speeding up the escalator and slowing down the climbers, until we have the reverse of the original scenario. The escalator rises 1,000 steps per second, while climbers are only able to go up one additional step per minute. I realize this sounds impractical, but I think it's worth trying.
posted by john hadron collider at 5:53 AM on April 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
But wouldn't the bandwidth - people ferried by the escalator a minute - be at least potentially greater for the walkers, despite their packing ineffeciency?
Potentially yes but in practice this doesn't happen. Walkers really cut down on the packing efficiency of the walking lane and when it gets to London levels of crowded they mess up the queue at the start of the escalator as well.
posted by zymil at 5:55 AM on April 5, 2017
Potentially yes but in practice this doesn't happen. Walkers really cut down on the packing efficiency of the walking lane and when it gets to London levels of crowded they mess up the queue at the start of the escalator as well.
posted by zymil at 5:55 AM on April 5, 2017
I've been researching the history of work and not-work, hedonic treadmills and such and I'd like to say just stop and think about what it says about your priorities if shaving 15 seconds of your commute seems so important to your general well being, more than your safety and the safety of those around you just stop and think, though hopefully not just after you get off the top of the escalator, some of us have jobs and bosses and places to be, move it!
posted by signal at 6:29 AM on April 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by signal at 6:29 AM on April 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
...if the standee takes pity on the walker they can squeeze over to let them by.
And then this happens.
posted by The Bellman at 6:35 AM on April 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
And then this happens.
posted by The Bellman at 6:35 AM on April 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
WMATA has managed, in the 25+ years that I've been a regular user, to raise the common escalator to a central prop in an grim, absurdist spectacle worthy of Alfred Jarry. All standards of user experience design, basic maintenance specs, and common sense have been abandoned and doubled down upon so many times that it's hard to see a way out that doesn't involve, say, planking over the existing ones and turning them into slides
If they removed those stupid bumps in the center of the escalator median, sliding would be a perfectly viable option.
Can you imagine sliding down the length of Bethesda Metro escalator?
posted by leotrotsky at 6:37 AM on April 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
If they removed those stupid bumps in the center of the escalator median, sliding would be a perfectly viable option.
Can you imagine sliding down the length of Bethesda Metro escalator?
posted by leotrotsky at 6:37 AM on April 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
Frankly, I've never understood why able-bodied people who aren't burdened with packages or children stand on escalators.
As a father of three, it really bothers me to hear you describe packages as a burden.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 6:38 AM on April 5, 2017 [15 favorites]
As a father of three, it really bothers me to hear you describe packages as a burden.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 6:38 AM on April 5, 2017 [15 favorites]
Also, escalators are basically horrible death machines compared to literally every other means of moving pedestrians, so I'd like to minimize my time on them if at all possible.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:38 AM on April 5, 2017
posted by leotrotsky at 6:38 AM on April 5, 2017
zaplipton:"I live in San Francisco. If I didn't walk on the escalators when riding public transit, I'd just be standing there stupefied, because our escalators never work"
To be fair, escalators /always/ work, though as an odd quirk they sometimes just magically disappear and are replaced by stairs.
posted by Static Vagabond at 6:58 AM on April 5, 2017
To be fair, escalators /always/ work, though as an odd quirk they sometimes just magically disappear and are replaced by stairs.
posted by Static Vagabond at 6:58 AM on April 5, 2017
Escalators only move at the speed of the fastest stander and the slowest walker.
posted by blue_beetle at 7:02 AM on April 5, 2017
posted by blue_beetle at 7:02 AM on April 5, 2017
Yeah I'll stop running up DC escalators when the fucking trains run on time.
posted by aspersioncast at 7:06 AM on April 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 7:06 AM on April 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
Also I LOVE that there is a longstanding, socially-enforced "standers on the left" rule here, and if Wiedefeld thinks he can derail that tradition while also raising fares, I suspect he may find out just how many pitchforks and torches the villagers are capable of rustling up.
posted by aspersioncast at 7:10 AM on April 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 7:10 AM on April 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
Not at peak times: the problem then is that demand exceeds the capacity of the escalator, so queues develop that block access to the bottom whether you’re in a hurry or not. At peak times you want everyone to stand two abreast to maximise the capacity of the escalator and so minimise total queuing time regardless of which group you fall into.
Yep, so instead of changing from one blanket policy to another, let people stand two abreast when it's packed, and walk when there's room to walk. Optimize for bandwidth when close to capacity, and for latency when far from capacity. It's not like they can enforce either the old policy or his new idea anyway.
Also, regarding how standing is supposed to be more efficient for very long escalators: people might not walk all the way, but they routinely walk part of the way. It's useful to walk around whoever's in front of you just to avoid the possibility that they'll stop at the end of the escalator and cause a pile-up, which can be dangerous. So I advocate a flexible policy.
posted by hyperbolic at 7:25 AM on April 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yep, so instead of changing from one blanket policy to another, let people stand two abreast when it's packed, and walk when there's room to walk. Optimize for bandwidth when close to capacity, and for latency when far from capacity. It's not like they can enforce either the old policy or his new idea anyway.
Also, regarding how standing is supposed to be more efficient for very long escalators: people might not walk all the way, but they routinely walk part of the way. It's useful to walk around whoever's in front of you just to avoid the possibility that they'll stop at the end of the escalator and cause a pile-up, which can be dangerous. So I advocate a flexible policy.
posted by hyperbolic at 7:25 AM on April 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm just going to leave this here: escalator markings
That aside, the study seems to have principally been about capacity, focusing on whether the space on the escalator was being used most efficiently. But that only matters if you somehow have long queues to get on to the thing in the first place, and if people are actually obeying the etiquette (obviously, many don't.) So the study doesn't really apply the way the article is claiming.
I'm pretty sure laminar flow is still the most efficient option for any individual.
posted by atbash at 7:27 AM on April 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
That aside, the study seems to have principally been about capacity, focusing on whether the space on the escalator was being used most efficiently. But that only matters if you somehow have long queues to get on to the thing in the first place, and if people are actually obeying the etiquette (obviously, many don't.) So the study doesn't really apply the way the article is claiming.
I'm pretty sure laminar flow is still the most efficient option for any individual.
posted by atbash at 7:27 AM on April 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah, nice thought Wiedefeld, but this Metro escalator, one of the longest in the system, is part of my commute, and takes almost 3 minutes if I stand on it all the way. I stand going up (bad knee hurts when I climb steps), but routinely walk going down.
posted by gudrun at 7:42 AM on April 5, 2017
posted by gudrun at 7:42 AM on April 5, 2017
I like when there are stairs next to the escalator, because (a) it's funny how the stairs are always completely empty while a big line forms for the escalator, and (b) walking up the stairs gets me to the top faster than the folks riding on the escalator nearly every single time. And, occasionally, I can even beat the folks who are walking up the damn thing, too.
We'd be better off as a society if there were always a manual option for those able to take it, but only if we as a society chose to use it... which is why I detest going to the mall, where there are no stairs, and invariably some gawker tourist cuts in front of me on an otherwise empty escalator and stands stone still, preventing me from walking up or down. (Mall of America is not my favorite mall, but it's the closest one to my house, so...)
posted by caution live frogs at 8:12 AM on April 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
We'd be better off as a society if there were always a manual option for those able to take it, but only if we as a society chose to use it... which is why I detest going to the mall, where there are no stairs, and invariably some gawker tourist cuts in front of me on an otherwise empty escalator and stands stone still, preventing me from walking up or down. (Mall of America is not my favorite mall, but it's the closest one to my house, so...)
posted by caution live frogs at 8:12 AM on April 5, 2017 [5 favorites]
Here are some more escalator markings.
Although I tend to walk up escalators if there is room, I think I'm on the 'everyone stands if it is crowded' side. Parents need to hold the hand of toddlers, standing next to them, and people in a hurry can be quite rude and dangerous to these kids and others. My father once got knocked down an escalator by a man in a hurry which resulted in many stitches--and it was a hit-and-run.
As for zipper merging, people do it quite well around here these days, which amazes me. I think people have been trained to do it by highway metering lights, which are on many of the freeways around here.
posted by eye of newt at 9:04 AM on April 5, 2017
Although I tend to walk up escalators if there is room, I think I'm on the 'everyone stands if it is crowded' side. Parents need to hold the hand of toddlers, standing next to them, and people in a hurry can be quite rude and dangerous to these kids and others. My father once got knocked down an escalator by a man in a hurry which resulted in many stitches--and it was a hit-and-run.
As for zipper merging, people do it quite well around here these days, which amazes me. I think people have been trained to do it by highway metering lights, which are on many of the freeways around here.
posted by eye of newt at 9:04 AM on April 5, 2017
Only if there's no line to get on the escalator. Or if there's two separate lines for walkers and standers, which I've never seen.
That's the standard configuration at every escalator I've ever seen in the NYC subway system. And people who get on the escalator and then stand on the left are often pushed aside or yelled at, or both.
posted by holborne at 9:05 AM on April 5, 2017
That's the standard configuration at every escalator I've ever seen in the NYC subway system. And people who get on the escalator and then stand on the left are often pushed aside or yelled at, or both.
posted by holborne at 9:05 AM on April 5, 2017
I always take the stairs when they're available. I do not trust escalators. The links that cjelli posted are nightmare fuel for my anxiety. Sadly, there are some places where the escalator is the only option. I'm not a fan of elevators either.
I am not claustrophobic, but I do have this back of my mind worry that I'll be trapped inside some day and have to pee and then explain that to someone after I'm rescued. And that imaginary conversation gives me anxiety. So yeah, give me stairs whenever possible.
posted by Fizz at 9:06 AM on April 5, 2017
I am not claustrophobic, but I do have this back of my mind worry that I'll be trapped inside some day and have to pee and then explain that to someone after I'm rescued. And that imaginary conversation gives me anxiety. So yeah, give me stairs whenever possible.
posted by Fizz at 9:06 AM on April 5, 2017
the study seems to have principally been about capacity, focusing on whether the space on the escalator was being used most efficiently . . . that only matters if you somehow have long queues to get on to the thing in the first place, and if people are actually obeying the etiquette
QFT. The more I think about it the more annoyed I am with Wiedefeld, this study, and the synopsis. It's like those systems theory diagrams where everything outside your model is just a cloud with arrows coming in/out.
Especially in places like metro where queues are related to the arrival and departure of vehicles, escalators don't function anything like single phase alternating current. Metro's escalators have varying phases of demand, capacity, and relative speed, and it's silly to optimize for capacity when that's not actually the primary concern.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:17 AM on April 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
QFT. The more I think about it the more annoyed I am with Wiedefeld, this study, and the synopsis. It's like those systems theory diagrams where everything outside your model is just a cloud with arrows coming in/out.
Especially in places like metro where queues are related to the arrival and departure of vehicles, escalators don't function anything like single phase alternating current. Metro's escalators have varying phases of demand, capacity, and relative speed, and it's silly to optimize for capacity when that's not actually the primary concern.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:17 AM on April 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
I.still don't really understand how the lower packing efficiency matters - it's only lower because the person getting on ahead of me is further along by the time I get on. That's only lower bandwidth (a better measure of actual escalator efficiency, I reckon - it's a transport system, what matters is how many people it can transport in a given time) if walkers aren't able to board the escalator at the same rate as standers. If anything, there's potential for walkers to be faster, as clearing your stair means I don't necessarily have to wait for a new one to roll out of the machine. Is it just that there's fewer walkers than standers, so that people end up queuing to only use half the escalator? Wouldn't a better solution then be to encourage those who can to walk, to get closer to an ideal ratio?
posted by Dysk at 9:27 AM on April 5, 2017
posted by Dysk at 9:27 AM on April 5, 2017
That's only lower bandwidth (a better measure of actual escalator efficiency, I reckon - it's a transport system, what matters is how many people it can transport in a given time)
Other reports have worked on the problem from this angle, and I think it makes more sense.
This study refers back to what appears to be the definitive study: "A.J. Mayo (1966), A study of escalators and associated flow systems, M.Sc. Degree Report, Imperial College of Science and Technology (University of London)."
Note also that the NYT article is relying at least partially on a Slate article that seems to somewhat misrepresent a study of evacuation via escalator, which seems like a slightly different problem.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:53 AM on April 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
Other reports have worked on the problem from this angle, and I think it makes more sense.
This study refers back to what appears to be the definitive study: "A.J. Mayo (1966), A study of escalators and associated flow systems, M.Sc. Degree Report, Imperial College of Science and Technology (University of London)."
Note also that the NYT article is relying at least partially on a Slate article that seems to somewhat misrepresent a study of evacuation via escalator, which seems like a slightly different problem.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:53 AM on April 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ok, so the basic argument in the the article is that 75% of people stand, but only use 50% of the escalator, and having everybody stand is faster for the 75%. I get that, but the study doesn't seem to be taking into account the motivations of the escalatees.
Do the 75% really want to be faster? If they actually wanted to go faster, they would walk. The 75% are standing because they can afford to wait. The other 25% who are walking, on the other hand, are running late for their next train/plane/meeting/whatever.
On preview: Yeah an evacuation problem is a totally different problem.
posted by yeolcoatl at 9:59 AM on April 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
Do the 75% really want to be faster? If they actually wanted to go faster, they would walk. The 75% are standing because they can afford to wait. The other 25% who are walking, on the other hand, are running late for their next train/plane/meeting/whatever.
On preview: Yeah an evacuation problem is a totally different problem.
posted by yeolcoatl at 9:59 AM on April 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm pretty sure laminar flow is still the most efficient option for any individual.
So we should figure out how to calculate the Reynolds number for a given escalator and crowd to really answer this question.
posted by TedW at 11:52 AM on April 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
So we should figure out how to calculate the Reynolds number for a given escalator and crowd to really answer this question.
posted by TedW at 11:52 AM on April 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
Down the (usually) bottom right of the egress or ingress to any given escalator, adjacent to the emergency stop button, make/model, serial number, size, materials list, and washing instructions, you will find the Reynolds number of the escalator clearly printed in braille.
If you can't spot it immediately no worries: just bellow for the escalator attendant and they will come out of their little hatch to let you know. If they don't know, they have been trained to guess.
Also it's important that whenever you board a piece of Schindler equipment that you point to the Schindler name and tell the other passengers "Schindler's lifts".
posted by turbid dahlia at 12:56 PM on April 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
If you can't spot it immediately no worries: just bellow for the escalator attendant and they will come out of their little hatch to let you know. If they don't know, they have been trained to guess.
Also it's important that whenever you board a piece of Schindler equipment that you point to the Schindler name and tell the other passengers "Schindler's lifts".
posted by turbid dahlia at 12:56 PM on April 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
That does make it especially appropriate for the DC Metro, since it has some of the longest escalators in the Western Hemisphere. Having traveled on them, I can tell you how many people ever choose to walk up a 250 foot escalator: basically none.
I'd like to point out there are exactly zero 250' escalators in the DC Metro system. In fact there are only 4 over 200': Wheaton (230'), Bethesda (212'), Woodley Park (204') and Medical Center (202'). By the 10th longest escalator in the system (Cleveland Park) you're already at 115'.
I lived in DC in Tenleytown (161' escalators) and was a frequent visitor to both Woodley Park and Dupont (188' north, 170' south) and would feel comfortable saying that during 99% of the rush hours I traveled on the Metro, I saw people walking up escalators, including myself.
Maybe I just noticed it more, but this description of no one walking up the escalators in DC doesn't ring true to me at all.
posted by andrewesque at 1:07 PM on April 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'd like to point out there are exactly zero 250' escalators in the DC Metro system. In fact there are only 4 over 200': Wheaton (230'), Bethesda (212'), Woodley Park (204') and Medical Center (202'). By the 10th longest escalator in the system (Cleveland Park) you're already at 115'.
I lived in DC in Tenleytown (161' escalators) and was a frequent visitor to both Woodley Park and Dupont (188' north, 170' south) and would feel comfortable saying that during 99% of the rush hours I traveled on the Metro, I saw people walking up escalators, including myself.
Maybe I just noticed it more, but this description of no one walking up the escalators in DC doesn't ring true to me at all.
posted by andrewesque at 1:07 PM on April 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
Parents need to hold the hand of toddlers, standing next to them,
Nope. Put the kid on the next step up from you, out of the way of the walkers. Bonuses: The kid can enjoy a moment of feeling "tall", and if they fall, they fall onto you rather than into the abyss.
posted by Pallas Athena at 1:28 PM on April 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
Nope. Put the kid on the next step up from you, out of the way of the walkers. Bonuses: The kid can enjoy a moment of feeling "tall", and if they fall, they fall onto you rather than into the abyss.
posted by Pallas Athena at 1:28 PM on April 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm pretty sure laminar flow is still the most efficient option for any individual.
So we should figure out how to calculate the Reynolds number for a given escalator and crowd to really answer this question.
We wouldn't need an exact number; all we'd have do is make sure no escalator is carrying more than 5 individuals named or nicknamed 'Eddy' at any given time.
posted by jamjam at 3:52 PM on April 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
So we should figure out how to calculate the Reynolds number for a given escalator and crowd to really answer this question.
We wouldn't need an exact number; all we'd have do is make sure no escalator is carrying more than 5 individuals named or nicknamed 'Eddy' at any given time.
posted by jamjam at 3:52 PM on April 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'd like to point out there are exactly zero 250' escalators in the DC Metro system. In fact there are only 4 over 200': Wheaton (230'), Bethesda (212'), Woodley Park (204') and Medical Center (202'). By the 10th longest escalator in the system (Cleveland Park) you're already at 115'.
I feel like something about going down on the Bethesda escalator makes it feel especially vertigo-inducing. That huge tunnel. It's almost a little awe-inspiring. Plus, you get to know you're leaving horrible Bethesda and you're that much less likely to run into some jerk you went to high school with.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 5:21 PM on April 5, 2017
I feel like something about going down on the Bethesda escalator makes it feel especially vertigo-inducing. That huge tunnel. It's almost a little awe-inspiring. Plus, you get to know you're leaving horrible Bethesda and you're that much less likely to run into some jerk you went to high school with.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 5:21 PM on April 5, 2017
Frankly, I've never understood why able-bodied people who aren't burdened with packages or children stand on escalators.
From Pater: As a father of three, it really bothers me to hear you describe packages as a burden.
Please forgive me—my kids are now adults so Isuffer from enjoy that selective amnesia re their childhoods.
Fwiw, in the future when I'm out in public and wrestling with more than I can easily carry, I will remind myself that at least my packages aren't wiggling, whining, crying, back-talking, or smacking each other when my back is turned.
posted by she's not there at 6:19 PM on April 5, 2017
From Pater: As a father of three, it really bothers me to hear you describe packages as a burden.
Please forgive me—my kids are now adults so I
Fwiw, in the future when I'm out in public and wrestling with more than I can easily carry, I will remind myself that at least my packages aren't wiggling, whining, crying, back-talking, or smacking each other when my back is turned.
posted by she's not there at 6:19 PM on April 5, 2017
Remember, kids, friends don't let friends build two-track municipal rail transit
I'm not sure how one gets a 4 track tunnel under the river from Rosslyn. Or where do we find space out on I66?
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 6:21 PM on April 5, 2017
I'm not sure how one gets a 4 track tunnel under the river from Rosslyn. Or where do we find space out on I66?
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 6:21 PM on April 5, 2017
Is Wheaton the one with a stripe of tile next to it at the same slope as the escalator, and no other visual cues until you get within sight of the top, so that my balance gets all screwed up and my brain thinks the up escalator is horizontal and I'm leaning backwards like some sort of Escher painting? I had to close my eyes so I wouldn't throw up or fall over, which obviously precluded walking.
posted by snowmentality at 5:07 AM on April 6, 2017
posted by snowmentality at 5:07 AM on April 6, 2017
this description of no one walking up the escalators in DC doesn't ring true to me at all
I've only ever seen this around the Mall/Chinatown/Nationals Stadium, or during lulls (when capacity is kinda moot).
Standing on the left at either of the Farragut Stations or Dupont during commute hours is a great way to generate multiple passive aggressive comments (and quite possibly actual aggression).
posted by aspersioncast at 10:00 AM on April 6, 2017
I've only ever seen this around the Mall/Chinatown/Nationals Stadium, or during lulls (when capacity is kinda moot).
Standing on the left at either of the Farragut Stations or Dupont during commute hours is a great way to generate multiple passive aggressive comments (and quite possibly actual aggression).
posted by aspersioncast at 10:00 AM on April 6, 2017
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