There was no toilet paper in the bathroom.
October 22, 2017 4:24 AM Subscribe
“Eater’s own list of essential Paris restaurants includes its vegetarian tasting menu as a when-in-Paris must. Earlier this year, the restaurant’s three-Michelin-star status was reaffirmed for the twentieth year in a row, an accolade that means its cuisine is "worth a special journey."
“I was in Paris for the briefest of vacations, and L’Arpège is where I wanted to spend one of my two fleeting afternoons. In exchange, at one of France’s best restaurants, I had one of my worst meals of the year.” Ryan Sutton for Eater.
“I was in Paris for the briefest of vacations, and L’Arpège is where I wanted to spend one of my two fleeting afternoons. In exchange, at one of France’s best restaurants, I had one of my worst meals of the year.” Ryan Sutton for Eater.
It was a wonderful, yet unsurprising, article. It seems to me, like so many other things in life, a restaurant can only keep the energy flow that makes them great for so long. Then it runs out, and you see something like this. Couple that with the "I spent $500 on a crappy meal? Noooo, it must have been ME!" factor and BOOM there you go. (Plus I can't believe there's no Michelin underground telegraph.)
posted by Samizdata at 4:41 AM on October 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Samizdata at 4:41 AM on October 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Throughout my three-hour meal, a small Pomeranian accompanying a diner sitting behind me barked regularly (albeit at reasonable volume)
Excellent. I like taking my leaf blower with me to restaurants, and running it while I eat. I'll go to this place next time I'm in Paris.
posted by thelonius at 4:44 AM on October 22, 2017 [42 favorites]
Excellent. I like taking my leaf blower with me to restaurants, and running it while I eat. I'll go to this place next time I'm in Paris.
posted by thelonius at 4:44 AM on October 22, 2017 [42 favorites]
Two of my Eater colleagues have also dined there in the past year, at separate times, and both reported exceptionally disappointing experiences.
At least, he can't say he wasn't warned.
I have to wonder if other reviews document a decline since the last Michelin review, or what is going on. The discrepancy between the reputation and the experience they are reporting is fairly extreme. I'm probably the wrong audience, since I'm not going to spend that kind of money on a meal unless it is a reimbursable work expense, but the article is interesting and I had to feel sorry for the intensity of his disappointment.
I've had a number of disappointing "farm to table" restaurant meals in the last year or so (more in the realm of $100-$200 per person including drinks, which is still enough money to feel the pain of a bad meal); it's a fad that has gone on long enough to have attracted plenty of poor imitators. In the article, it's kind of like the restaurant is just lazily imitating it's former glory days.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:48 AM on October 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
At least, he can't say he wasn't warned.
I have to wonder if other reviews document a decline since the last Michelin review, or what is going on. The discrepancy between the reputation and the experience they are reporting is fairly extreme. I'm probably the wrong audience, since I'm not going to spend that kind of money on a meal unless it is a reimbursable work expense, but the article is interesting and I had to feel sorry for the intensity of his disappointment.
I've had a number of disappointing "farm to table" restaurant meals in the last year or so (more in the realm of $100-$200 per person including drinks, which is still enough money to feel the pain of a bad meal); it's a fad that has gone on long enough to have attracted plenty of poor imitators. In the article, it's kind of like the restaurant is just lazily imitating it's former glory days.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:48 AM on October 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's not even snarky. It's just factual, and confessional
"In sorrow, not in anger" is an effective tone to select if you want to destroy someone's reputation.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 5:16 AM on October 22, 2017 [47 favorites]
"In sorrow, not in anger" is an effective tone to select if you want to destroy someone's reputation.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 5:16 AM on October 22, 2017 [47 favorites]
He mentions colleagues also having bad experiences, so sure... but wouldn’t most people be aware that a major national statutory holiday is not the best day to go to a fancy restaurant? Like, that’s not exactly a “don’t order the fish on Mondays”-level lifehack.
posted by sixswitch at 5:22 AM on October 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by sixswitch at 5:22 AM on October 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
Interesting that all the fancy food images are from 2009.
posted by KateViolet at 5:28 AM on October 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by KateViolet at 5:28 AM on October 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
There is no excuse - none - for some of the missteps noted by the author regarding the staff behavior (cold tea, the nose blowing, unattended coat room) at a fine dining restaurant of that caliber. I don't care if it was a holiday, during a blizzard, and 5 minutes before closing. Part of paying that much for a restaurant experience is the treatment you get and attention to detail at every level, not just the food.
posted by brand-gnu at 5:35 AM on October 22, 2017 [105 favorites]
posted by brand-gnu at 5:35 AM on October 22, 2017 [105 favorites]
From looking at the comments at the bottom, it looks like this article is a year old. Curious whether L'Arpege is better or worse since then.
I'm also grateful that my budget would have prevented me from going in the first place....
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:59 AM on October 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
I'm also grateful that my budget would have prevented me from going in the first place....
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:59 AM on October 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
First came little tartlets of beet and basil purée, as memorable as passed hors d’oeuvres at an alumni reception.
Goddamn.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:02 AM on October 22, 2017 [47 favorites]
Goddamn.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:02 AM on October 22, 2017 [47 favorites]
but wouldn’t most people be aware that a major national statutory holiday is not the best day to go to a fancy restaurant?
I do wonder if Bastille Day played a major role here. The best cooks and staff would not be working on a holiday in France. They take that shit seriously. I was actually surprised it was open. Not that everything is closed in Paris on Bastille Day but many restaurants are.
But I also found that French restaurants were generally a disappointment. I never shelled out for 3-michelin star magic but when I wasn't foraging on baguettes and cheese I found the service poor (and back then I spoke French pretty well) and the food meh. If you want great food in Europe go to Barcelona.
posted by dis_integration at 6:39 AM on October 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
I do wonder if Bastille Day played a major role here. The best cooks and staff would not be working on a holiday in France. They take that shit seriously. I was actually surprised it was open. Not that everything is closed in Paris on Bastille Day but many restaurants are.
But I also found that French restaurants were generally a disappointment. I never shelled out for 3-michelin star magic but when I wasn't foraging on baguettes and cheese I found the service poor (and back then I spoke French pretty well) and the food meh. If you want great food in Europe go to Barcelona.
posted by dis_integration at 6:39 AM on October 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
the aroma was mind-numbing, with an agreeable barnyard funk close to dry-aged beef or taleggio
This was what the reviewer liked best!
(I get my agreeable barnyard funk for free...)
posted by chavenet at 6:41 AM on October 22, 2017
This was what the reviewer liked best!
(I get my agreeable barnyard funk for free...)
posted by chavenet at 6:41 AM on October 22, 2017
agreeable barnyard funk
I saw those guys opening for Asparagus Knife
posted by thelonius at 6:46 AM on October 22, 2017 [46 favorites]
I saw those guys opening for Asparagus Knife
posted by thelonius at 6:46 AM on October 22, 2017 [46 favorites]
Interesting that all the fancy food images are from 2009.
Enjoy the sights of historic Mosul.
posted by adept256 at 6:58 AM on October 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Enjoy the sights of historic Mosul.
posted by adept256 at 6:58 AM on October 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
He did go on a holiday - assuming that everyone who had the seniority was taking the day off and they were staffed by the C team. Probably my worst cost/enjoyment ratio at a restaurant was on Christmas Day. You could tell no one wanted to be there, and no one in charge was actually there to make sure orders were done on time/properly.
Not excusing it - if you're going to be open on a holiday, be open on a holiday and don't half-ass it! But as soon as the author pointed out he was there on Bastille Day the terrible service and mediocre preparation made a lot more sense.
posted by thecjm at 6:59 AM on October 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Not excusing it - if you're going to be open on a holiday, be open on a holiday and don't half-ass it! But as soon as the author pointed out he was there on Bastille Day the terrible service and mediocre preparation made a lot more sense.
posted by thecjm at 6:59 AM on October 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
In an era when more and more people are choosing where to vacation based on where they can get a dinner reservation
I don't know anybody who does this
This is a criticism of L’Arpège, to be sure, but it’s also an indictment of the very globetrotting, fine-dining mindset that brought me here
I guess that's why I don't know anybody who does this
posted by dmh at 7:11 AM on October 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
I don't know anybody who does this
This is a criticism of L’Arpège, to be sure, but it’s also an indictment of the very globetrotting, fine-dining mindset that brought me here
I guess that's why I don't know anybody who does this
posted by dmh at 7:11 AM on October 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
A three-star Michelin restaurant shouldn't really have a B- or C-team to begin with, and if they can't provide three star food and service on Bastille Day or any other given holiday they should just close for the day.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:13 AM on October 22, 2017 [117 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 7:13 AM on October 22, 2017 [117 favorites]
Or they could just offer something a little cheaper--a steam table buffet, maybe?
posted by Slinga at 7:22 AM on October 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Slinga at 7:22 AM on October 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Did they drop the prices to C-team rates for Bastille Day?
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 7:26 AM on October 22, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 7:26 AM on October 22, 2017 [22 favorites]
It's true that they should have been prepared for Bastille day, but the critic should also have offered it as an explanation for its crappiness.
posted by ambrosen at 7:28 AM on October 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by ambrosen at 7:28 AM on October 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
This piece is a year old. Who knows what changes they have made in a year?
posted by w0mbat at 7:44 AM on October 22, 2017
posted by w0mbat at 7:44 AM on October 22, 2017
When René Redzepi did Noma Mexico, even Pete Wells was disgusted by the cynical excess. This sort of high end dining has long detached from the price / value calculus. It’s like Art Basel. Hell, it’s mostly the same clientele.
posted by JoeBlubaugh at 7:56 AM on October 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by JoeBlubaugh at 7:56 AM on October 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Mod note: Couple comments removed. You super do not have to care at all about fancy restaurant shit but just skip the thread if so.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:58 AM on October 22, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:58 AM on October 22, 2017 [25 favorites]
A friend of mine has started calling restaurants like this "farm to compost"...
posted by twsf at 8:02 AM on October 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by twsf at 8:02 AM on October 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
He's right, but also somewhat patronizing. I'm a grown-up and I realize when I make a reservation that I might be sick that day, or my favorite dish might be unavailable, or the staff might be having an off day. This isn't revelatory. Space Mountain is occasionally under repair. Sometimes the lead is replaced by her understudy.
Reviews like this are helpful in revealing more enduring changes—the ride has been dismantled, the lead singer quit the band, the restaurant isn't what it was in 2014—but he's conflating that with some larger critique of restaurant populism, and I think he misses the mark. Yes, thirty courses is a lot of food. Les Misérables is a lot of singing.
posted by cribcage at 8:36 AM on October 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Reviews like this are helpful in revealing more enduring changes—the ride has been dismantled, the lead singer quit the band, the restaurant isn't what it was in 2014—but he's conflating that with some larger critique of restaurant populism, and I think he misses the mark. Yes, thirty courses is a lot of food. Les Misérables is a lot of singing.
posted by cribcage at 8:36 AM on October 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
My experience in Paris is that the cafes in Montmartre up near Sacre Cour on random side street are great places to get a decent meal without a ton of hype. And good wine for cheap.
posted by Annika Cicada at 8:38 AM on October 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Annika Cicada at 8:38 AM on October 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Also...I would save money for a year to eat at this one place in Edinburgh. I live on less than 40k per year. Some of us are not “rich”, and yet still love food enough to sacrifice and travel someplace to get it.
That would be really sad to discover a place had gone to shit you know? Not all of us are jet setting c-level execs who spend more on a tie than the rest of us our wardrobes for a year.
posted by Annika Cicada at 8:46 AM on October 22, 2017 [25 favorites]
That would be really sad to discover a place had gone to shit you know? Not all of us are jet setting c-level execs who spend more on a tie than the rest of us our wardrobes for a year.
posted by Annika Cicada at 8:46 AM on October 22, 2017 [25 favorites]
So the holiday, when meals are full-priced, is a c-team, but a weekday, when meals are discounted, is an a-team? Odd priorities.
posted by jeather at 9:10 AM on October 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by jeather at 9:10 AM on October 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
If you're charging hundreds of euro for a meal, and you know you can't deliver good service on a holiday, you close for the damn holiday! I can't believe anyone is making excuses for this.
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:17 AM on October 22, 2017 [62 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:17 AM on October 22, 2017 [62 favorites]
My cynicism may be showing, but...he may have been served a weaker meal than the critics because they did not know who he was. There is a notable restaurant in LA that has been lauded by many critics...except one. She got a weak meal and noted that the people who are aglow about the restaurant are all chefs and critics known to the owner of the restaurant. It's standard for friends of the chef to get slightly better treatment, she says, but the gap between that and the standard meal was huge. If your aim is an international audience who will only eat there once per year, you can just make sure you're "on" for the occasional critic or VIP and run on automatic the rest of the time. Takes a little longer to destroy your reputation when your main clientele doesn't live in the city.
posted by rednikki at 9:31 AM on October 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by rednikki at 9:31 AM on October 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
My experience in Paris is that the cafes in Montmartre up near Sacre Cour on random side street are great places to get a decent meal without a ton of hype.
I had the worst steak au poivre in one of those cafes, so bad that it is the first thing I mention whenever someone asks me how I liked Paris. I don't think I've ever had a great meal in Paris--French food in Japan might have spoiled me for actual French food because of the level of attention to detail, the freshness of the ingredients, and the service. I should specify, some French food in Japan because I've had meals that were highly photogenic, yet tasted of nothing.
It wasn't only the steak au poivre, later, there was a depressing fish at another cafe that they had supposedly been serving since before the war. Looking at it, limp and grey next to defrosted vegetables, I could easily believe the fish had been around for nearly eighty years and seen troubles beyond its years.
posted by betweenthebars at 9:36 AM on October 22, 2017 [17 favorites]
I had the worst steak au poivre in one of those cafes, so bad that it is the first thing I mention whenever someone asks me how I liked Paris. I don't think I've ever had a great meal in Paris--French food in Japan might have spoiled me for actual French food because of the level of attention to detail, the freshness of the ingredients, and the service. I should specify, some French food in Japan because I've had meals that were highly photogenic, yet tasted of nothing.
It wasn't only the steak au poivre, later, there was a depressing fish at another cafe that they had supposedly been serving since before the war. Looking at it, limp and grey next to defrosted vegetables, I could easily believe the fish had been around for nearly eighty years and seen troubles beyond its years.
posted by betweenthebars at 9:36 AM on October 22, 2017 [17 favorites]
I only ate vegetarian food so that’s an important distinction to make.
The best vegan place I ever ate at was in Paris over by Gare Du Nord called “sol semilla”. I’d totally fly to Paris for a meal there.
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:47 AM on October 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
The best vegan place I ever ate at was in Paris over by Gare Du Nord called “sol semilla”. I’d totally fly to Paris for a meal there.
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:47 AM on October 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Timing is a huge factor in dining in Paris. Fine restaurants are really only going to be at their best on Tuesdays through Fridays outside the summer, Christmas/New Year season, and any weeks with a holiday. At all other times there will be many fewer of the diners they most care about (rich Parisians), tons of staff on vacation, and uneven or absent supplier deliveries constraining the variety and freshness of the stock for the kitchen.
posted by MattD at 9:54 AM on October 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by MattD at 9:54 AM on October 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
I had a great falafel in Paris from a little place that hands it out a window to you so you get to eat it in the street. i don't recall how much it cost, but the service was friendly and fast and the price was certainly under €300.
posted by dazed_one at 9:57 AM on October 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by dazed_one at 9:57 AM on October 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
This may be tangential, but now that those celebrity chef food porn cooking eating molecular gastronomy farm to table omnivore flexitarian gourmet gourmand reality television shows are ubiquitous throughout the land, we have become a nation of self-proclaimed "foodies" made up primarily by people who live hundreds if not thousands of miles from a Michelin star. If I never again hear anyone smirkingly humblebrag that they can't stand this or that restaurant because they are a "foodie", it will be too soon. Those shows and their progeny are why the best food goes unnoticed while the flashiest food becomes a chain of restaurants with a barn sized franchise in Las Vegas.
posted by janey47 at 10:07 AM on October 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by janey47 at 10:07 AM on October 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
I always enjoy reading a take-down of a famous restaurant, mostly because the level of disdain that the writer pours out results in some very memorable burns. That "hors d'oeuvre served at an alumni reception," is completely and astoundingly evocative of bland mediocrity produced by the tray-load.
posted by codacorolla at 10:12 AM on October 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by codacorolla at 10:12 AM on October 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
I wonder if there aren't two very different tendencies among people in response to recommendations. There's evidence that a lot of people will rate a food or drink more favorably when told that it's special or expensive. . . but I recognize in myself an instinctive compulsion to do exactly the opposite which isn't any more objective.
With a few exceptions, I can't think of a time when I heard a great review, professional or personal, for a restaurant and actually enjoyed the meal. All those exceptions are hole-in-the-wall dives, and none were American, French or Italian; which perhaps shows my instinctive biases. I'm not in the habit of booking flights for a $500 lunch, but every time someone's told me, "this is a fantastic restaurant for a special occasion," I've been disappointed and annoyed. The best meals I've ever eaten were all in unexpected places I felt like I discovered myself. The entire list of wines I can genuinely rank above others are sold around the second shelf from the bottom. It's hard not to wonder if I'd like them as much if they were featured on the counter with a staff review. I think I've been unconsciously avoiding the really out-there molecular gastronomy experiences because it seems so perfectly matched to my weird-food enthusiasm and geek interests that I'm fairly certain it will be disappointing.
Aside from pointing out truly awful food, one might ask whether the entire review industry isn't just an exercise in weird psychological emergent behavior unrelated to the actual food. It gives both the skeptics (instinctive-outsiders?) and the believers (instinctive-insiders?) something interesting to talk about in a world where taste is overwhelmed by the personal and hardly any food is actually exceptional.
I found this article compelling, but not in any way surprising. (But of course, I would say that.)
Note that any amount of apparent self reflection doesn't change my objective certainty that the Michelin staff should all walk into the sea.
posted by eotvos at 10:24 AM on October 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
With a few exceptions, I can't think of a time when I heard a great review, professional or personal, for a restaurant and actually enjoyed the meal. All those exceptions are hole-in-the-wall dives, and none were American, French or Italian; which perhaps shows my instinctive biases. I'm not in the habit of booking flights for a $500 lunch, but every time someone's told me, "this is a fantastic restaurant for a special occasion," I've been disappointed and annoyed. The best meals I've ever eaten were all in unexpected places I felt like I discovered myself. The entire list of wines I can genuinely rank above others are sold around the second shelf from the bottom. It's hard not to wonder if I'd like them as much if they were featured on the counter with a staff review. I think I've been unconsciously avoiding the really out-there molecular gastronomy experiences because it seems so perfectly matched to my weird-food enthusiasm and geek interests that I'm fairly certain it will be disappointing.
Aside from pointing out truly awful food, one might ask whether the entire review industry isn't just an exercise in weird psychological emergent behavior unrelated to the actual food. It gives both the skeptics (instinctive-outsiders?) and the believers (instinctive-insiders?) something interesting to talk about in a world where taste is overwhelmed by the personal and hardly any food is actually exceptional.
I found this article compelling, but not in any way surprising. (But of course, I would say that.)
Note that any amount of apparent self reflection doesn't change my objective certainty that the Michelin staff should all walk into the sea.
posted by eotvos at 10:24 AM on October 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
IME there's a substantial difference between an expensive restaurant that gets a lot of foodie attention vs a merely expensive restaurant, so for that alone, thanks, reviewers.
posted by airmail at 11:01 AM on October 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by airmail at 11:01 AM on October 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Dang, all y'all who've had lackluster meals in Paris have been missing out. I've had:
1. Carrot soup that was a damn revelation in a little spot next to Shakespeare & Company bookstore (not the cafe, it was next door in the other direction)
2. A really intriguing Asian-inspired salad with raw tuna, edamame, and other vegetables in a carrot-ginger dressing in a spot on Rue de Charonne
3. A chocolate tart called "tarte choco-crumble" which I have described as "Mississippi Mud Pie and chocolate mousse having sex on my tongue", in a little coffee shop in the Marais named after a character from Alice in Wonderland
4. A deliciously simple sundae of cherry, blackcurrant, and raspberry sorbet with whipped cream, in a little cafe in Giverny
I also had mediocre meals, sure, but nothing outright terrible.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:11 AM on October 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
1. Carrot soup that was a damn revelation in a little spot next to Shakespeare & Company bookstore (not the cafe, it was next door in the other direction)
2. A really intriguing Asian-inspired salad with raw tuna, edamame, and other vegetables in a carrot-ginger dressing in a spot on Rue de Charonne
3. A chocolate tart called "tarte choco-crumble" which I have described as "Mississippi Mud Pie and chocolate mousse having sex on my tongue", in a little coffee shop in the Marais named after a character from Alice in Wonderland
4. A deliciously simple sundae of cherry, blackcurrant, and raspberry sorbet with whipped cream, in a little cafe in Giverny
I also had mediocre meals, sure, but nothing outright terrible.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:11 AM on October 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
I haven't even eaten at that casino in vegas that has the fake forced perspective Eiffel tower.
I will be in Las Cruces NM next weekend eating the best mexican food on the planet so there.
posted by hippybear at 11:15 AM on October 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
I will be in Las Cruces NM next weekend eating the best mexican food on the planet so there.
posted by hippybear at 11:15 AM on October 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
I haven't even eaten at that casino in vegas that has the fake forced perspective Eiffel tower.
I have, and from the sound of things, my meal was better than Ryan Sutton's was
posted by halation at 11:32 AM on October 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
I have, and from the sound of things, my meal was better than Ryan Sutton's was
posted by halation at 11:32 AM on October 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Nthing the observation about Bastille Day. That at least explains the lack of staffing in the coat check and the lack of toilet paper. Those are things that just absolutely should not go wrong at a 3 star restaurant. OTOH if they can't serve Bastille Day properly they just should not be open.
I do enjoy the finest dining at this level. Not often 3 stars, that's a bit too fussy even for me (although Mssr. Bocuse's restaurant was truly astounding). But the 1 and 2 star fine dining places in France are often truly excellent. Less so in Paris because they tend to cater to business diners, I prefer the more elegant and personal comfort in smaller cities. But when it's done right it is truly an ethereal level of dining you can't find elsewhere.
When it's not so good though, oh boy, then it really disappoints. The worst is when you order some four hour nine course tasting menu and about an hour and a half into it you've realized you've made a terrible mistake because the experience is not going to deliver. And you are trapped.
posted by Nelson at 11:53 AM on October 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
I do enjoy the finest dining at this level. Not often 3 stars, that's a bit too fussy even for me (although Mssr. Bocuse's restaurant was truly astounding). But the 1 and 2 star fine dining places in France are often truly excellent. Less so in Paris because they tend to cater to business diners, I prefer the more elegant and personal comfort in smaller cities. But when it's done right it is truly an ethereal level of dining you can't find elsewhere.
When it's not so good though, oh boy, then it really disappoints. The worst is when you order some four hour nine course tasting menu and about an hour and a half into it you've realized you've made a terrible mistake because the experience is not going to deliver. And you are trapped.
posted by Nelson at 11:53 AM on October 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
I've had some excellent $100 dinners. But I've also had $100 dinners that make me wish that I'd just ordered fifty tacos.
posted by madcaptenor at 12:06 PM on October 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by madcaptenor at 12:06 PM on October 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
I've had excellent meals at normally shitty chain restaurants. Perhaps not surprisingly, many of the people who work at that sort of place are constrained more by procedure than their actual ability. Asking for something tasty can have good results when they aren't so busy.
It'll never be as fresh as a well done fine dining establishment, but it's also cheap.
I've also had both mediocre and excellent dishes at places that are far too rich for my blood when it isn't other people's money.
posted by wierdo at 12:54 PM on October 22, 2017
It'll never be as fresh as a well done fine dining establishment, but it's also cheap.
I've also had both mediocre and excellent dishes at places that are far too rich for my blood when it isn't other people's money.
posted by wierdo at 12:54 PM on October 22, 2017
I want L'Arpege's recipe for their Napoleon / Millefeuille, but can't find it online. Apparently it's really famous.
posted by polymodus at 1:25 PM on October 22, 2017
posted by polymodus at 1:25 PM on October 22, 2017
I had a great falafel in Paris from a little place that hands it out a window to you so you get to eat it in the street. i don't recall how much it cost, but the service was friendly and fast and the price was certainly under €300.
I've only had L'as du Fallafel, which my French friends brought me to and was really good. I have strong opinions on the kind of stuff in the original post.
a) I come from a working class background (I was never in a sit down restaurant of any kind until I was 18 and a friend whose dad was an architect brought me - it never would have crossed my mind to go to a restaurant for any reason, ever).
b) I'm big into food - I hosted a weekly night for my friends for a long time where I would cook them dinner and we would play music after (we're all musicians). The stuff I cook would make you very happy if you got it in a restaurant but I think that's easy to do when you're cooking for 4 one night a week instead of on a pressure cooker restaurant timeline.
c) With what I do now I'm in lots of places (the City of London, Wall Street, a.n.other offshore location) I eat in lots of places where nobody's paying their own bill, but they're being flattered to believe they're gods living the high life. A lot of it is bland crap with plating and stunt ingredients designed to give the impression of wealth and flatter the recipient.
posted by kersplunk at 1:38 PM on October 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
I've only had L'as du Fallafel, which my French friends brought me to and was really good. I have strong opinions on the kind of stuff in the original post.
a) I come from a working class background (I was never in a sit down restaurant of any kind until I was 18 and a friend whose dad was an architect brought me - it never would have crossed my mind to go to a restaurant for any reason, ever).
b) I'm big into food - I hosted a weekly night for my friends for a long time where I would cook them dinner and we would play music after (we're all musicians). The stuff I cook would make you very happy if you got it in a restaurant but I think that's easy to do when you're cooking for 4 one night a week instead of on a pressure cooker restaurant timeline.
c) With what I do now I'm in lots of places (the City of London, Wall Street, a.n.other offshore location) I eat in lots of places where nobody's paying their own bill, but they're being flattered to believe they're gods living the high life. A lot of it is bland crap with plating and stunt ingredients designed to give the impression of wealth and flatter the recipient.
posted by kersplunk at 1:38 PM on October 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
At €380 per head, if you cannot a deliver a 3* experience in your 3* restaurant due to anything -- a holiday, staff shortage, chef illness -- you close. You do not deliver a 0* dining experience.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:59 PM on October 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 1:59 PM on October 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
> I haven't even eaten at that casino in vegas that has the fake forced perspective Eiffel tower.
I have, and from the sound of things, my meal was better than Ryan Sutton's was.
Heh! I've eaten in three places at that casioo:
* a little coffee shop type of place, where I just had coffee and a croissant;
* the main restaurant; and
* the breakfast buffet, where I blew my whole $20 winnings on a slot machine win from the night before.
Nothing was terrible. Nothing was memorable, either (I remember details about the decor and my companions more), but nothing was terrible.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:38 PM on October 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
I have, and from the sound of things, my meal was better than Ryan Sutton's was.
Heh! I've eaten in three places at that casioo:
* a little coffee shop type of place, where I just had coffee and a croissant;
* the main restaurant; and
* the breakfast buffet, where I blew my whole $20 winnings on a slot machine win from the night before.
Nothing was terrible. Nothing was memorable, either (I remember details about the decor and my companions more), but nothing was terrible.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:38 PM on October 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Eater, the magazine for organisms that ingest nutrients orally.
posted by atoxyl at 3:27 PM on October 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by atoxyl at 3:27 PM on October 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
This guy seems to think that people shoud listen to his opinion. He later wrote about the top 50 restaurant awards and said this : L’Arpege climbed to the 12 spot, despite a devastating review from this critic.
I do have to agree with most of this though - What’s Wrong With the 2017 World’s 50 Best Restaurants List.
posted by unliteral at 7:15 PM on October 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
I do have to agree with most of this though - What’s Wrong With the 2017 World’s 50 Best Restaurants List.
posted by unliteral at 7:15 PM on October 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Fair enough -- a "half a grand" meal was disappointing. As already mentioned, however, is that it was Bastille Day, which really has me scratching my head. Why would a traveling food writer try to have an amazing meal on a national holiday? Plus, the author was warned by two other food writers that it was going to be underwhelming, so... I've got to give Eater some love, though. We picked À la Biche au Bois, #15 on Eater's 38 Essential Paris Restaurants list and it was kinda perfect. There are other restaurants on there with way more expensive menus, but we didn't want to 1) blow that kind of dough, and 2) risk the disappointment, and 3) be underdressed. So, GF & I got out of AlBaB for just under $120 incl. wine & cocktails. To start, I had a warm pate appetizer and she had a poached egg in wine sauce. Then, she had chicken in a mushroom sauce that was pretty good, but not the best she'd ever had, she said, but she's eaten a lot of food around France. I had a roasted (but rare) Scottish grouse w/ a pomegranate & red wine reduction w/ a chestnut puree alongside it that made me misty-eyed it was so damn good. We shared some soupy mashed potatoes that that were scrumptious (celeriac & stock in there?). To finish it off, I had a few cheeses; manchego (?), epoisses, and some roquefort, IIRC. An hour later I had a shot of Jager on the Seine. Perfect evening.
posted by Lukenlogs at 9:05 PM on October 22, 2017
posted by Lukenlogs at 9:05 PM on October 22, 2017
When we went to Paris we ended up only having time for two "real" meals, everything else was from room service or museum cafes, sadly. But the two meals were quite good. Pur was our first ever super fancy meal experience and it didn't disappoint. Maybe not worth quite the cost, but we figured hey, we were in Paris. The second place was Pottoka, which I found on TripAdvisor and was only about 35 euros for 3 courses and I would have gladly paid more. Superb food in a tiny place near the Eiffel Tower.
posted by kmz at 10:50 PM on October 22, 2017
posted by kmz at 10:50 PM on October 22, 2017
dazed_one: I had a great falafel in Paris from a little place that hands it out a window to you
kersplunk: I've only had L'as du Fallafel, which my French friends brought me to and was really good.
this is funny, I'm almost entirely certain you two are discussing the same restaurant. l'as du fallafel is a total classic, and most people indeed order it through the window and eat in the street (though I recall they have like 2 tables)
posted by Emily's Fist at 11:12 PM on October 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
kersplunk: I've only had L'as du Fallafel, which my French friends brought me to and was really good.
this is funny, I'm almost entirely certain you two are discussing the same restaurant. l'as du fallafel is a total classic, and most people indeed order it through the window and eat in the street (though I recall they have like 2 tables)
posted by Emily's Fist at 11:12 PM on October 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Not all of us are jet setting c-level execs
Michelin dining is one of those conversations that always gets dragged back to 101 level every time it appears on MetaFilter. No, we are not all Fortune 500 CEOs. Many of us are simply people who skip things like beer and wine, morning Starbucks, baseball games, or Netflix to spend our money this way instead. Others do the same with opera or monster trucks. It doesn't necessarily make us more or less disciplined than you, and it doesn't mean we have more or less discretionary income than you do. Quit making assumptions about other people.
Why would a traveling food writer try to have an amazing meal on a national holiday?
If we're discussing other restaurants, I'd agree. Here in America, you can't expect good food or service on Mother's Day or Valentine's Day. No business can afford to staff for two peak days per year. Either you decide the holiday is worth celebrating and you suck it up, or you go someplace where nobody goes to celebrate (I know a few great spots that are empty on holidays), or you stay home.
But Michelin is a different level. These dining rooms are serving to capacity every night, so theoretically there shouldn't be any difference between Bastille Day versus a random Tuesday. The only difference is which staff members you give the night off—and as others have said above, if you're letting all your top-tier staff enjoy the holiday with their families, then you shouldn't be opening your doors. If you are opening, then you deserve to get judged.
posted by cribcage at 9:33 AM on October 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
Michelin dining is one of those conversations that always gets dragged back to 101 level every time it appears on MetaFilter. No, we are not all Fortune 500 CEOs. Many of us are simply people who skip things like beer and wine, morning Starbucks, baseball games, or Netflix to spend our money this way instead. Others do the same with opera or monster trucks. It doesn't necessarily make us more or less disciplined than you, and it doesn't mean we have more or less discretionary income than you do. Quit making assumptions about other people.
Why would a traveling food writer try to have an amazing meal on a national holiday?
If we're discussing other restaurants, I'd agree. Here in America, you can't expect good food or service on Mother's Day or Valentine's Day. No business can afford to staff for two peak days per year. Either you decide the holiday is worth celebrating and you suck it up, or you go someplace where nobody goes to celebrate (I know a few great spots that are empty on holidays), or you stay home.
But Michelin is a different level. These dining rooms are serving to capacity every night, so theoretically there shouldn't be any difference between Bastille Day versus a random Tuesday. The only difference is which staff members you give the night off—and as others have said above, if you're letting all your top-tier staff enjoy the holiday with their families, then you shouldn't be opening your doors. If you are opening, then you deserve to get judged.
posted by cribcage at 9:33 AM on October 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
Here in America, you can't expect good food or service on Mother's Day or Valentine's Day.Hmmm. My personal experience in America is that Mother's Day and Valentine's Day are both events where people go out of their way to attend fancy restaurants and have to book in advance to get a table because of the overwhelming crowd. How this maps onto Bastille Day is far beyond the list of things I know about.
posted by eotvos at 10:41 AM on October 23, 2017
But Michelin is a different level. These dining rooms are serving to capacity every night, so theoretically there shouldn't be any difference between Bastille Day versus a random Tuesday
We don't have any three-star restaurants in LA, but I know there's a two-year here in Santa Monica, Melissé. They are open on Thanksgiving and Christmas and have prepared accordingly; they are not serving their seven or ten course tasting menus that day. L’Arpège knew when Bastille Day was. I'll note that their Thanksgiving menu is quite a bit less than their usual menu.
For years my favorite restaurant in L.A. was the late Joe's, in Venice. Why? Because I never had a bad meal or bad experience there. If Joe's could manage that, a three-year place should be able to.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:56 AM on October 23, 2017
We don't have any three-star restaurants in LA, but I know there's a two-year here in Santa Monica, Melissé. They are open on Thanksgiving and Christmas and have prepared accordingly; they are not serving their seven or ten course tasting menus that day. L’Arpège knew when Bastille Day was. I'll note that their Thanksgiving menu is quite a bit less than their usual menu.
For years my favorite restaurant in L.A. was the late Joe's, in Venice. Why? Because I never had a bad meal or bad experience there. If Joe's could manage that, a three-year place should be able to.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:56 AM on October 23, 2017
It's absolutely true that a Michelin restaurant in France should know that they'll be short-staffed/using the C team on Bastille Day. And they do know this. And they probably decided to be open because I don't think the French would pity diners at a Michelin restaurant who didn't know this. The French concept of customer service is based on a different set of assumptions and expectations, and that still has an impact at a restaurant that's supposed to be the height of service.
posted by benbenson at 2:05 PM on October 23, 2017
posted by benbenson at 2:05 PM on October 23, 2017
George Orwell would not have been surprised:
'And strange to say, in spite of all this filth and incompetence, the Auberge de Jehan Cottard was actually a success .. It destroyed one of my illusions, namely, the idea that Frenchmen know good food when they see it. Or perhaps we were a fairly good restaurant by Paris standards; in which case the bad ones must be past imagining.'
(Orwell, Down and Out in Paris and London)
posted by verstegan at 3:12 PM on October 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
'And strange to say, in spite of all this filth and incompetence, the Auberge de Jehan Cottard was actually a success .. It destroyed one of my illusions, namely, the idea that Frenchmen know good food when they see it. Or perhaps we were a fairly good restaurant by Paris standards; in which case the bad ones must be past imagining.'
(Orwell, Down and Out in Paris and London)
posted by verstegan at 3:12 PM on October 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
I am lucky enough to be one of those who had lunch at Arpege and dinner at Manresa within a year (at most 2, would have to check) and I remember when this article came out. I doesn't match my experience. Then again I went on a Monday in mid-June. While I am sympathetic to the idea that with that many macarons and the high prices you don't get to have off days, restaurants are only human. Especially on a major national holiday. I had excellent service, and my only quibble was with the "arc" or progression of courses. A very strong garlic amuse bouche was really out of sequence, making it harder to appreciate the following courses. They did a great job pairing wines. One of my major questions about the article was, who goes to a restaurant like that to drink tea? I understand not all diners will partake, but as a critic that's a major part of the assessment. In contrast, a recent meal at Manresa (which the author name checks) was mediocre by their standards, my first ever disappointment there and definitely not performing at the level of Arpege. To be sure, a big part of what one is paying for at that level is consistency, there being very little difference between two and three stars in terms of what makes it onto the plate. But there are going to be off days even at literally the best places.
posted by wnissen at 4:13 PM on October 23, 2017
posted by wnissen at 4:13 PM on October 23, 2017
Sure, but some of this stuff is unforgivable (by Michelin standards), like the handling of dishes or the unattended coat check. "A staffer set a stack of dirty glasses and empty wine bottles on a trolley inches from my table—and left it there." Come on, I don't care how many top performers took the night off; the third-tier staff should be trained better than that.
For people who aren't into this hobby, that's like going to see the Spider-Man musical and every time Spider-Man is supposed to exit the stage, he yanks off his mask and checks his texts while walking offstage. Maybe you go to see the musical on Christmas Day and the second understudy is handling the role, but even he knows better than that.
posted by cribcage at 4:39 PM on October 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
For people who aren't into this hobby, that's like going to see the Spider-Man musical and every time Spider-Man is supposed to exit the stage, he yanks off his mask and checks his texts while walking offstage. Maybe you go to see the musical on Christmas Day and the second understudy is handling the role, but even he knows better than that.
posted by cribcage at 4:39 PM on October 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
cribcage, I was about to post that, but with the last line of the paragraph: There was no toilet paper in the bathroom. 3 stars dude.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:49 PM on October 23, 2017
posted by Room 641-A at 4:49 PM on October 23, 2017
It's absolutely true that a Michelin restaurant in France should know that they'll be short-staffed/using the C team on Bastille Day. And they do know this. And they probably decided to be open because I don't think the French would pity diners at a Michelin restaurant who didn't know this.
Then they can darn well put up with the perfectly legitimate criticism that if one arrives for a restaurant reservation for a 500-Euro meal one expects to get a meal worth paying 500 Euros for.
Maybe this is my crass Americanism showing, but I'm practically guffawing at the idea that the restaurant somehow shouldn't be criticized for charging full price but sending out C-grade food. Bwuh? No. You got Michelin stars, you better perform at a level worthy of Michelin stars. Unless the person taking the reservation said something like "Of course, monsieur understands it will be Bastille Day, and the meal should not be expected to be of acceptable quality" and he agreed to that, they fully deserve the negative review.
There was no toilet paper in the bathroom. Michelin stars. No toilet paper in the bathroom. Does not compute.
(And the "people had already told him the place was sliding so what was he expecting" prompts the same response: He expected a meal worthy of a place that considers their food worth charging 500 Euros for. That's what he expected.)
posted by Lexica at 5:01 PM on October 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Then they can darn well put up with the perfectly legitimate criticism that if one arrives for a restaurant reservation for a 500-Euro meal one expects to get a meal worth paying 500 Euros for.
Maybe this is my crass Americanism showing, but I'm practically guffawing at the idea that the restaurant somehow shouldn't be criticized for charging full price but sending out C-grade food. Bwuh? No. You got Michelin stars, you better perform at a level worthy of Michelin stars. Unless the person taking the reservation said something like "Of course, monsieur understands it will be Bastille Day, and the meal should not be expected to be of acceptable quality" and he agreed to that, they fully deserve the negative review.
There was no toilet paper in the bathroom. Michelin stars. No toilet paper in the bathroom. Does not compute.
(And the "people had already told him the place was sliding so what was he expecting" prompts the same response: He expected a meal worthy of a place that considers their food worth charging 500 Euros for. That's what he expected.)
posted by Lexica at 5:01 PM on October 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
To finish it off, I had a few cheeses; manchego (?), epoisses, and some roquefort, IIRC
Manchego, yes. Lovely cheese, second best thing to come from la Mancha after a certain ingenious hidalgo.
posted by ersatz at 5:16 AM on October 24, 2017
Manchego, yes. Lovely cheese, second best thing to come from la Mancha after a certain ingenious hidalgo.
posted by ersatz at 5:16 AM on October 24, 2017
I don't think I've ever had a great meal in Paris
I have to say, I was shocked about how poor the quality of restaurant food was on my holiday in France this summer, aside from a good crepe in Paris.
And I thought to myself, well, who could fuck up a crepe, but it turns out that in France, plenty of places can.
The only decent food we had out was when we crossed the border to Spain.
I don't think I can have been unlucky every meal. I left the country feeling like a re-examination of France's reputation for culinary excellence is overdue.
posted by chill at 5:56 AM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
I have to say, I was shocked about how poor the quality of restaurant food was on my holiday in France this summer, aside from a good crepe in Paris.
And I thought to myself, well, who could fuck up a crepe, but it turns out that in France, plenty of places can.
The only decent food we had out was when we crossed the border to Spain.
I don't think I can have been unlucky every meal. I left the country feeling like a re-examination of France's reputation for culinary excellence is overdue.
posted by chill at 5:56 AM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hmmm. My personal experience in America is that Mother's Day and Valentine's Day are both events where people go out of their way to attend fancy restaurants and have to book in advance to get a table because of the overwhelming crowd.
And as a result the food doesn't have to be as good, because people are going out because it is The Day When You Go Out.
posted by madcaptenor at 8:50 AM on October 24, 2017
And as a result the food doesn't have to be as good, because people are going out because it is The Day When You Go Out.
posted by madcaptenor at 8:50 AM on October 24, 2017
I agree with chill that the quality of restaurant food in France, at least in the regular brasseries, etc. I eat in, is very disappointing. The above-average dishes taste like something I would throw together after work (and be hardly ecstatic about), and the worst ones are almost offensive. And that's the French food. I've eaten things in Indian and Caribbean restaurants that have made me angry. Out of countless restaurant meals here I've had maybe two great ones, one of which was a galette in Quimper with goat cheese, magret de canard and honey that I still think about five years later. Creperies are more reliable than other kinds of restaurants, in my experience, but are often not very adventurous -- I don't really want to pay money for a galette with a bit of emmental and an egg. All that said, the quality of produce, meat, wines, cheeses, etc. I get here make cooking at home wonderful, just a dream compared to where I'm from.
posted by two or three cars parked under the stars at 5:03 PM on October 25, 2017
posted by two or three cars parked under the stars at 5:03 PM on October 25, 2017
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posted by hippybear at 4:37 AM on October 22, 2017 [11 favorites]