It felt like I was putting a big part of myself inside a locker
February 18, 2018 5:01 AM Subscribe
I am still learning to accept myself as I am. I hope it doesn't take another 50 years. Photo interview series by Jessica Dimmock with trans women in the PNW. Dimmock is careful to explain that the situations are, well, complicated: some of her subjects don’t consider themselves to be trans because, as Dimmock explains, it was not an identity that they felt free to totally embrace. “They’ve been trapped in a timeline and a situation at home that has made it impossible for them...But everyone I photographed is on the spectrum of having a full female identity. There are women inside all of these people.”
The series places the women in the settings in which they found creative ways to steal away and express their honest identities in private,” she explains. “They are intentional and accurate to their stories.”
Oof, deeply moving. Superb photographs, so evocative of the twilight transitioning.
posted by nickyskye at 7:12 AM on February 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by nickyskye at 7:12 AM on February 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
what a beautiful project. thanks for sharing this.
posted by halation at 7:53 AM on February 18, 2018
posted by halation at 7:53 AM on February 18, 2018
Thank you.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 8:43 AM on February 18, 2018
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 8:43 AM on February 18, 2018
thank you for sharing this
so many stories so many lives
so many that never are recognized
so many that never are heard
posted by kokaku at 9:15 AM on February 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
so many stories so many lives
so many that never are recognized
so many that never are heard
posted by kokaku at 9:15 AM on February 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
I love this. So many trans stories are of the young and beautiful, and its inspiring to see into the lives of regular people.
posted by advicepig at 9:30 AM on February 18, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by advicepig at 9:30 AM on February 18, 2018 [5 favorites]
If there are avenues in your local communities to connect with and become friends with the “over 50 crowd” of trans women in your area please, please reach out.
These women (and the ones in your town right now!) are fucking amazing and have a history and wisdom that shouldn’t be hidden in isolation.
Thanks for posting this.
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:42 AM on February 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
These women (and the ones in your town right now!) are fucking amazing and have a history and wisdom that shouldn’t be hidden in isolation.
Thanks for posting this.
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:42 AM on February 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
That was a really great read, thank you for sharing.
posted by Secretariat at 9:51 AM on February 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Secretariat at 9:51 AM on February 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
It's stories like this that remind me not to beat myself up with regret, or to waste too much time lamenting the lost opportunity of childhood.
This is a known problem with most trans people - regret. Regret for not doing more, regret for not being braver, regret for failed/lost family, relationships and friendships, regret for lost jobs.
There is a lot of regrets about loneliness and isolation in trans people.
And note, this is barely addressing the weltschmerz of disappointment and regret with how the world sees and treats trans people, from blind indifference to actively murderous malice.
Thankfully, things are going fairly well for me, at least right here and now, and I've been almost completely joyous about it. All told, in the end I have had to jump through less hoops and gatekeeping than average. I have good friends to support me who love me and are excited for me, my future and my attempts at being authentic and happy. (Oh, crap, here comes an honest cry, hang on. OK, weee.)
But, regardless, I have a lot of regrets. About not starting sooner. About the significant fraction of my life spent hiding not just from the world but even close friends to be able to cope and be.
My main regret so far is not (yet) being able to share this really positive part of my life with my parents. For all I know my brother (old friend of the site from way back) has read this or heard about it - and told my parents, but probably not. I don't think he has time to track my MeFi Comments, and I'm pretty sure he's kinder/smarter than that to understand why.
Because the last few times I tried talking about this to my parents it didn't go well at all. And I was seeking permission/approval, which wasn't healthy for an adult, either. And the reactions I got from my dad in particular were really depressing and misogynistic. "You'd be an ugly woman!" was one particular painful response, especially with the compounded insult that a woman's primary function is to look good.
So, sorry, mom and dad. I'd love to include you in the joy and process, and maybe soon I will. But for now I can't afford to have you emotionally derail my process. You've had essentially 15 years to wrap your heads around a pretty basic human concept, and there's mountains of stories, information and FAQs out there about this. You can make your own personal choice whether you accept me or not whenever we actually see each other again.
I promise it won't be that hard, I'm obviously really happy and functional. I'll probably even look less weird than I did in my teens, though I'm considering some pretty wild hair again.
(And, sheesh, this crap is hard to write about. I write about some difficult or emotional topics sometimes, and this is the writer's equivalent of going offroading through a weedy field littered with hidden boulders at high speeds.)
I definitely don't regret starting gender affirmative treatment at all, or finally starting. There's no doubt about this.
posted by loquacious at 11:59 AM on February 18, 2018 [37 favorites]
This is a known problem with most trans people - regret. Regret for not doing more, regret for not being braver, regret for failed/lost family, relationships and friendships, regret for lost jobs.
There is a lot of regrets about loneliness and isolation in trans people.
And note, this is barely addressing the weltschmerz of disappointment and regret with how the world sees and treats trans people, from blind indifference to actively murderous malice.
Thankfully, things are going fairly well for me, at least right here and now, and I've been almost completely joyous about it. All told, in the end I have had to jump through less hoops and gatekeeping than average. I have good friends to support me who love me and are excited for me, my future and my attempts at being authentic and happy. (Oh, crap, here comes an honest cry, hang on. OK, weee.)
But, regardless, I have a lot of regrets. About not starting sooner. About the significant fraction of my life spent hiding not just from the world but even close friends to be able to cope and be.
My main regret so far is not (yet) being able to share this really positive part of my life with my parents. For all I know my brother (old friend of the site from way back) has read this or heard about it - and told my parents, but probably not. I don't think he has time to track my MeFi Comments, and I'm pretty sure he's kinder/smarter than that to understand why.
Because the last few times I tried talking about this to my parents it didn't go well at all. And I was seeking permission/approval, which wasn't healthy for an adult, either. And the reactions I got from my dad in particular were really depressing and misogynistic. "You'd be an ugly woman!" was one particular painful response, especially with the compounded insult that a woman's primary function is to look good.
So, sorry, mom and dad. I'd love to include you in the joy and process, and maybe soon I will. But for now I can't afford to have you emotionally derail my process. You've had essentially 15 years to wrap your heads around a pretty basic human concept, and there's mountains of stories, information and FAQs out there about this. You can make your own personal choice whether you accept me or not whenever we actually see each other again.
I promise it won't be that hard, I'm obviously really happy and functional. I'll probably even look less weird than I did in my teens, though I'm considering some pretty wild hair again.
(And, sheesh, this crap is hard to write about. I write about some difficult or emotional topics sometimes, and this is the writer's equivalent of going offroading through a weedy field littered with hidden boulders at high speeds.)
I definitely don't regret starting gender affirmative treatment at all, or finally starting. There's no doubt about this.
posted by loquacious at 11:59 AM on February 18, 2018 [37 favorites]
If there are avenues in your local communities to connect with and become friends with the “over 50 crowd” of trans women in your area please, please reach out.
These women (and the ones in your town right now!) are fucking amazing and have a history and wisdom that shouldn’t be hidden in isolation.
I agree with this very much, but I would like to add a gentle caveat and warning: Be gentle and patient, and don't be a tourist.
Trans people often do deal with a lot of mental health issues, even if they're only trans-related and products and symptoms of a life of isolation, loneliness or social ostracization or abuse.
Unfortunately even in the healthiest of people, this can cause someone to run entirely out of fucks to give and leave them jaded and cynical, or even outright toxic. Many transwomen have been left or abandoned by family, or abused by lovers, or left by lovers, or have lost friends or careers and all kinds of fucked up things.
And the trans experience is also one of profound, acute and chronic pain. Body dysphoria is really hard to understand and convey how continuously painful and damaging to the psyche it is. Every time you see yourself in the mirror? Physical/psychic pain. Seeing your own hands, hearing your voice, seeing yourself in photos? Pain. Having to go out every day in the wrong clothes, the wrong mask and face? So much continual pain and deep unpleasantness.
It's not just psychological or self esteem. Trans people deal with that on top of the dysphoria. They're different things. And then internalized and external misogyny about expectations of feminine beauty come in and mix it up with the dysphoria and self esteem issues and things get really messy and shitty, like some kind of emotional bar brawl fighting it out for years and years inside you, everywhere you go - coloring every experience you have, sad or joyful.
I definitely struggle with some of these things, but I'm also not simply projecting, here.
I've been around and/or even dated a lot of trans folk older than me. On average they would be seen at best as solitary/reserved, and at worst outright toxic and misanthropic.
Yes, do listen, Do be gentle. Please, do be a real friend. Please, do listen to their stories Yes, do set boundaries and be careful, but try to understand.
But please don't objectify or be a tourist.
posted by loquacious at 12:26 PM on February 18, 2018 [12 favorites]
These women (and the ones in your town right now!) are fucking amazing and have a history and wisdom that shouldn’t be hidden in isolation.
I agree with this very much, but I would like to add a gentle caveat and warning: Be gentle and patient, and don't be a tourist.
Trans people often do deal with a lot of mental health issues, even if they're only trans-related and products and symptoms of a life of isolation, loneliness or social ostracization or abuse.
Unfortunately even in the healthiest of people, this can cause someone to run entirely out of fucks to give and leave them jaded and cynical, or even outright toxic. Many transwomen have been left or abandoned by family, or abused by lovers, or left by lovers, or have lost friends or careers and all kinds of fucked up things.
And the trans experience is also one of profound, acute and chronic pain. Body dysphoria is really hard to understand and convey how continuously painful and damaging to the psyche it is. Every time you see yourself in the mirror? Physical/psychic pain. Seeing your own hands, hearing your voice, seeing yourself in photos? Pain. Having to go out every day in the wrong clothes, the wrong mask and face? So much continual pain and deep unpleasantness.
It's not just psychological or self esteem. Trans people deal with that on top of the dysphoria. They're different things. And then internalized and external misogyny about expectations of feminine beauty come in and mix it up with the dysphoria and self esteem issues and things get really messy and shitty, like some kind of emotional bar brawl fighting it out for years and years inside you, everywhere you go - coloring every experience you have, sad or joyful.
I definitely struggle with some of these things, but I'm also not simply projecting, here.
I've been around and/or even dated a lot of trans folk older than me. On average they would be seen at best as solitary/reserved, and at worst outright toxic and misanthropic.
Yes, do listen, Do be gentle. Please, do be a real friend. Please, do listen to their stories Yes, do set boundaries and be careful, but try to understand.
But please don't objectify or be a tourist.
posted by loquacious at 12:26 PM on February 18, 2018 [12 favorites]
And, Annika, my last comment is definitely not directed at you, just the general readership of the thread and allies.
posted by loquacious at 12:28 PM on February 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by loquacious at 12:28 PM on February 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
Loquacious, first let me say that I’m so so happy to hear that you’re getting stuff sorted out and I’m always here to be a friend and supporter. Consider me an admirer from afar, I’ve been through a lot bullshit with my own transition and if anything I’m here to hold space and listen.
Second, your comment about not being a tourist and not objectifying us is 1000 percent spot on and absolutely an appropriate caveat to add. Thank you for putting that out there. Trans people are not objects. (The transfemme character in the play I’m writing is named “Curio” for a reason)
Hugs offered to everyone.
posted by Annika Cicada at 1:32 PM on February 18, 2018 [6 favorites]
Second, your comment about not being a tourist and not objectifying us is 1000 percent spot on and absolutely an appropriate caveat to add. Thank you for putting that out there. Trans people are not objects. (The transfemme character in the play I’m writing is named “Curio” for a reason)
Hugs offered to everyone.
posted by Annika Cicada at 1:32 PM on February 18, 2018 [6 favorites]
This article is all too real.
I'm so glad it's getting more understood and accepted with time.
But at the same time I can get irrationally angry that it's as hard as it is now, and that it can be really hard for older people because of relationships and dependents and expectations and the lifetimes of garbage that have been dumped in all our heads.
I believe someday it will be no big deal. And the agony of those fighting these battles in the past merely a surreal and melancholic historic footnote.
And I'm sad and angry and tired for those of us who are older, and who face these battles because we live in the wrong time. Even though I know the future I wrote about won't get here without us.
posted by allium cepa at 3:21 PM on February 18, 2018 [3 favorites]
I'm so glad it's getting more understood and accepted with time.
But at the same time I can get irrationally angry that it's as hard as it is now, and that it can be really hard for older people because of relationships and dependents and expectations and the lifetimes of garbage that have been dumped in all our heads.
I believe someday it will be no big deal. And the agony of those fighting these battles in the past merely a surreal and melancholic historic footnote.
And I'm sad and angry and tired for those of us who are older, and who face these battles because we live in the wrong time. Even though I know the future I wrote about won't get here without us.
posted by allium cepa at 3:21 PM on February 18, 2018 [3 favorites]
I hear a lot of "well, back in my day, there weren't these people" from older transphobic people, and this article is clear evidence that "these people" absolutely did exist "back in their day". They just felt even more strongly then that they had no choice but to hide and suffer, so other people were less likely to know about them.
posted by jacquilynne at 4:32 PM on February 18, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 4:32 PM on February 18, 2018 [5 favorites]
It's funny, ten years ago stories like these seemed incredibly overrepresented. It seemed like the only trans narrative cis people knew about was "Older closeted suburban trans woman, mostly gets to express herself through clothing, has made a lot of compromises with life" — or, like, a shitty, pathetic stereotype built off of that narrative, since most people had zero contact with the real thing.
But it's true — now stories like this are underrepresented. And it makes me sad that we've driven that change. I mean, the more trans people ourselves are driving the narratives, the more we want to talk about people who are young and hot and cis-passing, or who are young and fuck-you and nonbinary.
I don't think a lot of us younger* more political folks like admitting how much regret there is in the average transition. We want the story to be, you know, "I fought for my identity, I won, and now I live life on my terms with no caveats or complications." Spending decades as a closeted cross-dresser in a small town — and then maybe, slowly, starting to tell some people — is the epitome of caveats and complications, and I think we're honestly a lot of us scared to admit how much we have in common with that story even if we didn't live it.
*I mean. I'm not an early transitioner. I came out in my 30s, and I think people who come out at 15 have yet another struggle than I do. But I'm still young enough that I was never part of these women's world either.
posted by nebulawindphone at 5:33 PM on February 18, 2018 [8 favorites]
But it's true — now stories like this are underrepresented. And it makes me sad that we've driven that change. I mean, the more trans people ourselves are driving the narratives, the more we want to talk about people who are young and hot and cis-passing, or who are young and fuck-you and nonbinary.
I don't think a lot of us younger* more political folks like admitting how much regret there is in the average transition. We want the story to be, you know, "I fought for my identity, I won, and now I live life on my terms with no caveats or complications." Spending decades as a closeted cross-dresser in a small town — and then maybe, slowly, starting to tell some people — is the epitome of caveats and complications, and I think we're honestly a lot of us scared to admit how much we have in common with that story even if we didn't live it.
*I mean. I'm not an early transitioner. I came out in my 30s, and I think people who come out at 15 have yet another struggle than I do. But I'm still young enough that I was never part of these women's world either.
posted by nebulawindphone at 5:33 PM on February 18, 2018 [8 favorites]
One of my closest friends came out to me last year at 44. I see a lot of her in Margo. Getting dressed and then just...chilling out doing nothing because of the relief of just being herself.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:47 PM on February 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:47 PM on February 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
Hey, I'm beginning to think I'm the young (ish), fuck you, nonbinary, misanthropic, jaded, cynical trans femme that you are all contrasting yourselves with. My understanding is that trans people are granted visibility and validation in exchange for stories about transition, so it makes perfect sense that we would use our loudspeaker to discuss those aspects of trans life that don't get as much attention. I also don't know that it's a recent phenomenon— there have been outspoken trans femmes since the start of the gay liberation movement.
I had a hard time personally relating because they don't mention race, but the individuals generally seemed nice. I especially liked the first story. I think of bowling as a masculine activity for some reason, so I like the idea of carrying around your femme gear in a bowling-ball bag... sneaky!
posted by yaymukund at 7:43 PM on February 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
I had a hard time personally relating because they don't mention race, but the individuals generally seemed nice. I especially liked the first story. I think of bowling as a masculine activity for some reason, so I like the idea of carrying around your femme gear in a bowling-ball bag... sneaky!
posted by yaymukund at 7:43 PM on February 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
Hey, I'm beginning to think I'm the young (ish), fuck you, nonbinary, misanthropic, jaded, cynical trans femme that you are all contrasting yourselves with.
Hrm, I'm not contrasting myself with anyone. I don't think anyone else participating in the thread really is, either.
I have someone younger and non-binary to thank for helping me figure some stuff out, and there's definitely no bitterness from here about younger trans/gq folks.
posted by loquacious at 9:03 PM on February 18, 2018
Hrm, I'm not contrasting myself with anyone. I don't think anyone else participating in the thread really is, either.
I have someone younger and non-binary to thank for helping me figure some stuff out, and there's definitely no bitterness from here about younger trans/gq folks.
posted by loquacious at 9:03 PM on February 18, 2018
nebulawindphone: "I mean, the more trans people ourselves are driving the narratives, the more we want to talk about people who are young and hot and cis-passing, or who are young and fuck-you and nonbinary. "
Honestly, I think this is a large part of why I don't really feel a lot of connection with the "trans community" - it doesn't really include me all that often. I grew up in a small town in the 70s with no vocabulary to describe my experiences, but *knowing* that any kind of femininity is forbidden to me. I've spent decades trying to make sense of my world, feeling massively depressed and anxious, instinctively understanding that the problem had something to do with gender, but being unable to speak the words. Every time I tried to talk about my world I'd be angrily told off - most often by progressive cis women, and quite often on this site actually - because it was so utterly presumptuous for someone like me (a "white middle aged cis man") to feel oppressed by gender norms. At long last when the right words finally came and I had the courage to come out and try to live as myself, I was too old to be attractive, too deeply trained in an outdated language to for my opinions to be considered worthwhile, and in many ways an inconvenience to the approved narrative. Just a scared middle-aged non-passing late-transitioner who finds it really hard to believe the world has changed and that I'm really allowed to live as a woman.
So yes, truth be told I am bitter about the narratives that younger trans people prefer to discuss. I don't blame them in the slightest for wanting to move forward in pushing for greater acceptance of transgender people, and I'm amazed at how many wonderful things younger trans folks are doing now, but often I do feel left out. Stories like these at least make me feel like maybe there's a place for people like me. Thanks for posting this.
posted by saltbush and olive at 11:44 PM on February 18, 2018 [12 favorites]
Honestly, I think this is a large part of why I don't really feel a lot of connection with the "trans community" - it doesn't really include me all that often. I grew up in a small town in the 70s with no vocabulary to describe my experiences, but *knowing* that any kind of femininity is forbidden to me. I've spent decades trying to make sense of my world, feeling massively depressed and anxious, instinctively understanding that the problem had something to do with gender, but being unable to speak the words. Every time I tried to talk about my world I'd be angrily told off - most often by progressive cis women, and quite often on this site actually - because it was so utterly presumptuous for someone like me (a "white middle aged cis man") to feel oppressed by gender norms. At long last when the right words finally came and I had the courage to come out and try to live as myself, I was too old to be attractive, too deeply trained in an outdated language to for my opinions to be considered worthwhile, and in many ways an inconvenience to the approved narrative. Just a scared middle-aged non-passing late-transitioner who finds it really hard to believe the world has changed and that I'm really allowed to live as a woman.
So yes, truth be told I am bitter about the narratives that younger trans people prefer to discuss. I don't blame them in the slightest for wanting to move forward in pushing for greater acceptance of transgender people, and I'm amazed at how many wonderful things younger trans folks are doing now, but often I do feel left out. Stories like these at least make me feel like maybe there's a place for people like me. Thanks for posting this.
posted by saltbush and olive at 11:44 PM on February 18, 2018 [12 favorites]
I think in general trans women become more and more isolated as we grow older no matter what age we started transition.
These people have a certain narrative at their age, I won’t have the same narrative at that age, and the trans kids of today will have a different narrative still.
No matter the narrative, our later life/ elderly trans populations are extremely important to knowing who we are and how got here.
posted by Annika Cicada at 5:36 AM on February 19, 2018
These people have a certain narrative at their age, I won’t have the same narrative at that age, and the trans kids of today will have a different narrative still.
No matter the narrative, our later life/ elderly trans populations are extremely important to knowing who we are and how got here.
posted by Annika Cicada at 5:36 AM on February 19, 2018
loquacious, I'm sorry. I wasn't being fair to you. I am used to hearing those characterizations from people trying to distance themselves, but you're definitely not doing that so I apologize.
saltbush and olive, we definitely need to be more inclusive of nonpassing trans femmes. I'm all for intergenerational community as well, but I'm hesitant to shift my gaze to older people in the suburbs without some reassurance that "old" and "suburbs" don't imply white.
What I'm seeing more and more is an appetite for a liberal trans politics that separates our personal struggles from a broader queer movement. It reminds me of reading about the end of gay liberation, when calls for revolution gave way to private reform and they pushed out trans activists for being inconvenient to the respectability politics of that era. I'm curious to hear what those activists think of our present situation.
posted by yaymukund at 6:12 AM on February 19, 2018
saltbush and olive, we definitely need to be more inclusive of nonpassing trans femmes. I'm all for intergenerational community as well, but I'm hesitant to shift my gaze to older people in the suburbs without some reassurance that "old" and "suburbs" don't imply white.
What I'm seeing more and more is an appetite for a liberal trans politics that separates our personal struggles from a broader queer movement. It reminds me of reading about the end of gay liberation, when calls for revolution gave way to private reform and they pushed out trans activists for being inconvenient to the respectability politics of that era. I'm curious to hear what those activists think of our present situation.
posted by yaymukund at 6:12 AM on February 19, 2018
What I'm seeing more and more is an appetite for a liberal trans politics that separates our personal struggles from a broader queer movement.
I'm in favor of aligning with reproductive rights, but in a "let's do both!" kind of way.
posted by Annika Cicada at 7:28 AM on February 19, 2018
I'm in favor of aligning with reproductive rights, but in a "let's do both!" kind of way.
posted by Annika Cicada at 7:28 AM on February 19, 2018
I'm hesitant to shift my gaze to older people in the suburbs without some reassurance that "old" and "suburbs" don't imply white.
As cis appearing, binary blending, white trans person I have the understanding that it is trans people of color who a) outnumber white trans people by a lot and their stories are tragically underrepresented and b) trans people of color who suffer the consequences of race and gender in ways that I will never encounter.
I'm at the point of "has to remind myself to check in with my shit so I can become more aware of when I'm defaulting to whiteness when I talk about this stuff". Beyond that I personally have a long way to go and I'm willing to learn from the mistakes I will inevitably make along the way.
posted by Annika Cicada at 7:43 AM on February 19, 2018
As cis appearing, binary blending, white trans person I have the understanding that it is trans people of color who a) outnumber white trans people by a lot and their stories are tragically underrepresented and b) trans people of color who suffer the consequences of race and gender in ways that I will never encounter.
I'm at the point of "has to remind myself to check in with my shit so I can become more aware of when I'm defaulting to whiteness when I talk about this stuff". Beyond that I personally have a long way to go and I'm willing to learn from the mistakes I will inevitably make along the way.
posted by Annika Cicada at 7:43 AM on February 19, 2018
What I'm seeing more and more is an appetite for a liberal trans politics that separates our personal struggles from a broader queer movement. It reminds me of reading about the end of gay liberation, when calls for revolution gave way to private reform and they pushed out trans activists for being inconvenient to the respectability politics of that era.
For the most part I totally agree with this. Maintaining a broad movement that doesn't leave anyone behind is a difficult act of intersectional politics. It's pretty easy to end up in this situation that a lot of white feminism ended up in, or what's happened to some parts of the gay liberation movement, where the most privileged subset of people start playing respectability politics and in doing so pull the ladder up behind them.
At the same time, I find myself exhausted by this constant conflation of the trans community with trans activism. I'm not an activist. I don't have the temperament to do that work well. I'm tired, I'm miserable, and all I want is for the fear to go away and be honest about who I am. So it's kind of frustrating when I see these wonderful stories about people who are kind of like me, and they're being presented as nothing other than ordinary people... while also having other folks want to critique the politics of it. Yes, the personal is political, but it's not *only* political. It's also just everyday life, and it would be nice to have a space to be able to tell those stories without it also having to be something more than that.
Does that make sense?
posted by saltbush and olive at 1:06 PM on February 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
For the most part I totally agree with this. Maintaining a broad movement that doesn't leave anyone behind is a difficult act of intersectional politics. It's pretty easy to end up in this situation that a lot of white feminism ended up in, or what's happened to some parts of the gay liberation movement, where the most privileged subset of people start playing respectability politics and in doing so pull the ladder up behind them.
At the same time, I find myself exhausted by this constant conflation of the trans community with trans activism. I'm not an activist. I don't have the temperament to do that work well. I'm tired, I'm miserable, and all I want is for the fear to go away and be honest about who I am. So it's kind of frustrating when I see these wonderful stories about people who are kind of like me, and they're being presented as nothing other than ordinary people... while also having other folks want to critique the politics of it. Yes, the personal is political, but it's not *only* political. It's also just everyday life, and it would be nice to have a space to be able to tell those stories without it also having to be something more than that.
Does that make sense?
posted by saltbush and olive at 1:06 PM on February 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
This feels... timely? My 40th birthday is revving its engines and plowing into me in a few months, and, yes "regret" has been a theme that's been on frequent rotation.
I've always identified as a girl; I suspect that my parents emigrated earlier than was optimal because I was causing problems in kindergarten because I would join the girls whenever there were sex segregated activities. The excuse that was bandied around often was that I was "too dumb to succeed" in the aggressively competitive education system in HK.
I kept it up, too, in Canada - I'd try to associate with girls and would play dress up (by myself, the girls would always rebuff me) in daycare. Until my dad came to pick me up one day and I was in a wig, dress, and too-big-for-me heels. That episode, along with my surname being a female pronoun in English and bullying, both ethnicity- and physically-slight- based, I decided to play along as a boy - mostly. A lot of my childhood individual hobbies were of the crafting type (including needlepoint, building dollhouses, cooking); but I participated in contact sports and did all kinds of physically reckless stuff that boys are supposed to do.
When puberty hit, boy was that a doozy. I started dressing up again with either borrowed clothing or until I screwed myself up enough to buy some of my own. Got found out, had all my stuff purged. The last years of highschool were a nightmare.
Going away for college I decided to "start over" and really try to live life as a boy. Didn't work out. Started surreptitiously acquiring clothing and dressing up in private. Started sending out feelers for coming out - hey! college! - but that didn't end up going so well.
After graduating, I went through a few cycles of acquiring clothing and makeup and purging my girl stuff. Tried dating; when letting women find out, they'd leave when they discovered my other identity; when being upfront, they'd ghost (with the exception of one, but I was a full blown alcoholic at the time and she was poly anyway). Have essentially given up seriously trying to date for the last decade, but live en femme full time when I'm home alone. Some days, the prospect of going home and getting changed and putting my breastforms on is the only thing that gets me through the day.
Had an opportunity to out myself to my sister a few weeks ago and was steeling myself to by practicing what/how I would say it; couldn't do it. I acutely regret that.
But, yes, regret, fear of rejection - again -, but I'm mostly ashamed that I fear that I will age - alone - into those stories in the linked photo-article and continue muddling through with this furtive existence.
posted by porpoise at 3:22 PM on February 19, 2018 [7 favorites]
I've always identified as a girl; I suspect that my parents emigrated earlier than was optimal because I was causing problems in kindergarten because I would join the girls whenever there were sex segregated activities. The excuse that was bandied around often was that I was "too dumb to succeed" in the aggressively competitive education system in HK.
I kept it up, too, in Canada - I'd try to associate with girls and would play dress up (by myself, the girls would always rebuff me) in daycare. Until my dad came to pick me up one day and I was in a wig, dress, and too-big-for-me heels. That episode, along with my surname being a female pronoun in English and bullying, both ethnicity- and physically-slight- based, I decided to play along as a boy - mostly. A lot of my childhood individual hobbies were of the crafting type (including needlepoint, building dollhouses, cooking); but I participated in contact sports and did all kinds of physically reckless stuff that boys are supposed to do.
When puberty hit, boy was that a doozy. I started dressing up again with either borrowed clothing or until I screwed myself up enough to buy some of my own. Got found out, had all my stuff purged. The last years of highschool were a nightmare.
Going away for college I decided to "start over" and really try to live life as a boy. Didn't work out. Started surreptitiously acquiring clothing and dressing up in private. Started sending out feelers for coming out - hey! college! - but that didn't end up going so well.
After graduating, I went through a few cycles of acquiring clothing and makeup and purging my girl stuff. Tried dating; when letting women find out, they'd leave when they discovered my other identity; when being upfront, they'd ghost (with the exception of one, but I was a full blown alcoholic at the time and she was poly anyway). Have essentially given up seriously trying to date for the last decade, but live en femme full time when I'm home alone. Some days, the prospect of going home and getting changed and putting my breastforms on is the only thing that gets me through the day.
Had an opportunity to out myself to my sister a few weeks ago and was steeling myself to by practicing what/how I would say it; couldn't do it. I acutely regret that.
But, yes, regret, fear of rejection - again -, but I'm mostly ashamed that I fear that I will age - alone - into those stories in the linked photo-article and continue muddling through with this furtive existence.
posted by porpoise at 3:22 PM on February 19, 2018 [7 favorites]
I'm a fifty-two year-old trans woman. This seems like a good place to share a little bit about myself.
I always wanted to be a girl. I wasn't transexual (or, more recently, transgender). After all, I didn't identify as female. I didn't feel like a girl stuck in a boy's body, or, later, a woman stuck in a man's body. I just wanted (albeit with every fiber of my being) to be a girl. That was just wanting something I couldn't have. I was uncomfortable with my body, but I never suffered crippling dysphoria, or anything I thought of as dysphoria (once I knew the term) at all. I just knew what I wanted.
I started playing D&D in high school. At first, I don't think I even considered playing a female character. It took me until college to work up the nerve to do so, and that only after another guy in the group did the same thing. I still mostly played male characters. I did have this tendency to put seek out situations where my characters might get their gender swapped, but trying not to be obvious about it.
Later I played RPGs with more open ended character generation. I still played mostly male characters, but in more open ended systems it was easier to come up with characters that might get gender-flipped. The GMs in the games I played would have worked with me, if I'd just asked, but I was too embarrassed to do that. Then, a little over two years ago, I was prepping a character for a new superhero game, run by a friend. I was toying with a shapeshifter character concept, that, of course, would have the potential to turn or get stuck as female. But as I thought about it, I knew that this GM wouldn't do that. Not that he'd think there was anything wrong with the idea, he just wouldn't mess with his players like that without specific invitation. If I played this character, I'd have these hopes, and they'd go nowhere.
Fuck that. This character wasn't going to get "stuck" as a girl. This character had spent her entire life stuck as a boy, and her newly acquired super powers had set her free. Thus, Parker was born. I wrote up the character and sent her off. The GM liked the character, but her abilities were too close to another character that had already started, so he asked me to use the other character I'd written up. This was a good thing, it turns out.
Parker wouldn't get out of my head. She needed a story. I've been trying to write a novel (well, various novels) for more than a decade. I'd even tried NaNoWriMo a couple of times, but could never come close to finishing. All this took place near the end of October, and I started creating a story for Parker to live in on November 2nd, 2015. I logged on to the NaNoWriMo site to track my progress. At the end of November, my novel was at 62k words. Two weeks later, I closed it out at 78k words.
I'd done a little reading on trans issues while I was writing, and did more when I was done, to prepare myself for revisions. Somewhere in there, I came out to myself. I'm trans.
I had previously told my wife about the fact that I'd wanted to to be a girl for most of my life, and that had been hard. Telling her this was, strangely, not as hard. I told her, honestly at the time, that I wasn't going to do anything about it. There'd be no point, since I'd never pass. She was of the opinion that it mainly my weight that would keep me from passing, and said that if I did change my mind, seh would support my decision.
I started the new year with a decision to lose weight. When I got down to my target weight, I could consider transitioning. I've made that decision, to lose weight, many times in my life. Some of those times, with a huge effort, it had even worked. This time, it was easy. I started counting calories to make sure I was eating enough. By the end of summer, it wasn't easy any more, and I wasn't quite down to where I wanted to be, but I had lost a good amount of weight, and had gotten my self back in good cardio-health.
For Halloween, I went to work dressed in clothes I had managed to get myself to by from the women's section of Goodwill. I didn't come anywhere close to passing. I didn't care. This was how I was supposed to be. I called a local therapist who was recommended for gender identity issues that day and set up my first appointment. I was going to transition.
Unfortunately, I couldn't, yet. We had a very complicated issue in our lives that meant transitioning would put more than just me at risk. I couldn't be out until it was resolved, and there was the possibility that it never would be.
I took litte, deniable steps throughout 2017. I painted my nails occasionally. My hair has been growing out since shortly before I came out to myself. I got my ears pierced. Little things that don't have to add up to something more.
I bought more clothes. I took a couple weekends to myself away, where I could be myself. I started meeting my sister for brunch as myself. I went dressed as me for my therapy sessions. And every time I would see myself in the mirror, properly dressed, I would get this huge smile on my face. This is right. This is me. The person looking back at me from the mirror was a woman. Not a cis woman, but that was okay.
In the fall, the first major step of resolving our legal issues happened. I made an appointment with and endocrinologist immediately, and started my medical transition in mid-December. The final piece of our resolution happened in the last couple of weeks. I'll be coming out to my kids soon.
Sadly, my marriage didn't survive all this. My wife and I will be separating next month. It's not all about my transition, but it's a big piece of it, and the main trigger. We'll be telling the kids about both things at the same time. We hate to dump both things on them at once, but we've talked to a lot of people about this, and no one has been able to suggest a better path. I deeply regret the pain that this will cause them. I regret that I can't find a path that keeps us together.
I wish I could have had the experience of growing up a girl. I resent all the years of living as a woman that I have missed. Even just having the body now I would have had if I had transitioned as a teen would be such a blessing. But I don't regret living the life I've lived. My kids are amazing. I wouldn't give up the years my wife and I have had for anything. I'm not sorry that I'm trans instead of cis. It's who I am.
I do regret that my father never got to meet his other daughter. I regret that my mother only got to know her for a few hours, spread out over a few months. Even living here in Texas in seventies and early eighties as we did, they would have supported me if I had been able to admit the truth to myself, and them. I try not to feel guilty about that.
Thanks for linking this article, and for anyone who's read this far, thanks for that.
posted by Tabitha Someday at 9:15 PM on February 19, 2018 [13 favorites]
I always wanted to be a girl. I wasn't transexual (or, more recently, transgender). After all, I didn't identify as female. I didn't feel like a girl stuck in a boy's body, or, later, a woman stuck in a man's body. I just wanted (albeit with every fiber of my being) to be a girl. That was just wanting something I couldn't have. I was uncomfortable with my body, but I never suffered crippling dysphoria, or anything I thought of as dysphoria (once I knew the term) at all. I just knew what I wanted.
I started playing D&D in high school. At first, I don't think I even considered playing a female character. It took me until college to work up the nerve to do so, and that only after another guy in the group did the same thing. I still mostly played male characters. I did have this tendency to put seek out situations where my characters might get their gender swapped, but trying not to be obvious about it.
Later I played RPGs with more open ended character generation. I still played mostly male characters, but in more open ended systems it was easier to come up with characters that might get gender-flipped. The GMs in the games I played would have worked with me, if I'd just asked, but I was too embarrassed to do that. Then, a little over two years ago, I was prepping a character for a new superhero game, run by a friend. I was toying with a shapeshifter character concept, that, of course, would have the potential to turn or get stuck as female. But as I thought about it, I knew that this GM wouldn't do that. Not that he'd think there was anything wrong with the idea, he just wouldn't mess with his players like that without specific invitation. If I played this character, I'd have these hopes, and they'd go nowhere.
Fuck that. This character wasn't going to get "stuck" as a girl. This character had spent her entire life stuck as a boy, and her newly acquired super powers had set her free. Thus, Parker was born. I wrote up the character and sent her off. The GM liked the character, but her abilities were too close to another character that had already started, so he asked me to use the other character I'd written up. This was a good thing, it turns out.
Parker wouldn't get out of my head. She needed a story. I've been trying to write a novel (well, various novels) for more than a decade. I'd even tried NaNoWriMo a couple of times, but could never come close to finishing. All this took place near the end of October, and I started creating a story for Parker to live in on November 2nd, 2015. I logged on to the NaNoWriMo site to track my progress. At the end of November, my novel was at 62k words. Two weeks later, I closed it out at 78k words.
I'd done a little reading on trans issues while I was writing, and did more when I was done, to prepare myself for revisions. Somewhere in there, I came out to myself. I'm trans.
I had previously told my wife about the fact that I'd wanted to to be a girl for most of my life, and that had been hard. Telling her this was, strangely, not as hard. I told her, honestly at the time, that I wasn't going to do anything about it. There'd be no point, since I'd never pass. She was of the opinion that it mainly my weight that would keep me from passing, and said that if I did change my mind, seh would support my decision.
I started the new year with a decision to lose weight. When I got down to my target weight, I could consider transitioning. I've made that decision, to lose weight, many times in my life. Some of those times, with a huge effort, it had even worked. This time, it was easy. I started counting calories to make sure I was eating enough. By the end of summer, it wasn't easy any more, and I wasn't quite down to where I wanted to be, but I had lost a good amount of weight, and had gotten my self back in good cardio-health.
For Halloween, I went to work dressed in clothes I had managed to get myself to by from the women's section of Goodwill. I didn't come anywhere close to passing. I didn't care. This was how I was supposed to be. I called a local therapist who was recommended for gender identity issues that day and set up my first appointment. I was going to transition.
Unfortunately, I couldn't, yet. We had a very complicated issue in our lives that meant transitioning would put more than just me at risk. I couldn't be out until it was resolved, and there was the possibility that it never would be.
I took litte, deniable steps throughout 2017. I painted my nails occasionally. My hair has been growing out since shortly before I came out to myself. I got my ears pierced. Little things that don't have to add up to something more.
I bought more clothes. I took a couple weekends to myself away, where I could be myself. I started meeting my sister for brunch as myself. I went dressed as me for my therapy sessions. And every time I would see myself in the mirror, properly dressed, I would get this huge smile on my face. This is right. This is me. The person looking back at me from the mirror was a woman. Not a cis woman, but that was okay.
In the fall, the first major step of resolving our legal issues happened. I made an appointment with and endocrinologist immediately, and started my medical transition in mid-December. The final piece of our resolution happened in the last couple of weeks. I'll be coming out to my kids soon.
Sadly, my marriage didn't survive all this. My wife and I will be separating next month. It's not all about my transition, but it's a big piece of it, and the main trigger. We'll be telling the kids about both things at the same time. We hate to dump both things on them at once, but we've talked to a lot of people about this, and no one has been able to suggest a better path. I deeply regret the pain that this will cause them. I regret that I can't find a path that keeps us together.
I wish I could have had the experience of growing up a girl. I resent all the years of living as a woman that I have missed. Even just having the body now I would have had if I had transitioned as a teen would be such a blessing. But I don't regret living the life I've lived. My kids are amazing. I wouldn't give up the years my wife and I have had for anything. I'm not sorry that I'm trans instead of cis. It's who I am.
I do regret that my father never got to meet his other daughter. I regret that my mother only got to know her for a few hours, spread out over a few months. Even living here in Texas in seventies and early eighties as we did, they would have supported me if I had been able to admit the truth to myself, and them. I try not to feel guilty about that.
Thanks for linking this article, and for anyone who's read this far, thanks for that.
posted by Tabitha Someday at 9:15 PM on February 19, 2018 [13 favorites]
I read other trans people's stories and every one of them is another little ache in me because they're so real, so familiar.
I'm mid-40s. I don't know if I'll ever make it out. Whether I do or not, it's already wrecked my life. What I have left in the way of family relationships will vanish if I do. I will vanish if I don't. Quite possibly I won't survive either future.
What do you do when there is no path to being yourself that doesn't destroy your life and the lives of those dear to you? Try to accept your own sunset gracefully and depart the stage forever with as little chaos as possible?
posted by allium cepa at 4:53 AM on February 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
I'm mid-40s. I don't know if I'll ever make it out. Whether I do or not, it's already wrecked my life. What I have left in the way of family relationships will vanish if I do. I will vanish if I don't. Quite possibly I won't survive either future.
What do you do when there is no path to being yourself that doesn't destroy your life and the lives of those dear to you? Try to accept your own sunset gracefully and depart the stage forever with as little chaos as possible?
posted by allium cepa at 4:53 AM on February 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
At the same time, I find myself exhausted by this constant conflation of the trans community with trans activism. I'm not an activist. I don't have the temperament to do that work well. I'm tired, I'm miserable, and all I want is for the fear to go away and be honest about who I am. So it's kind of frustrating when I see these wonderful stories about people who are kind of like me, and they're being presented as nothing other than ordinary people... while also having other folks want to critique the politics of it. Yes, the personal is political, but it's not *only* political. It's also just everyday life, and it would be nice to have a space to be able to tell those stories without it also having to be something more than that.
Yeah, but presenting something as ordinary is political. Picking certain people to tell their stories is politics. Telling us the age when each person first tried on women's clothes before their interview is a political act. Talking about "honest" versus "dishonest" trans women is language that's tied to a particular politics. It would be one thing if Dimmock just said, "Hey, old trans people are underrepresented so we should hear from them" and then published interviews, but that's not all she did.
posted by yaymukund at 5:47 AM on February 20, 2018
Yeah, but presenting something as ordinary is political. Picking certain people to tell their stories is politics. Telling us the age when each person first tried on women's clothes before their interview is a political act. Talking about "honest" versus "dishonest" trans women is language that's tied to a particular politics. It would be one thing if Dimmock just said, "Hey, old trans people are underrepresented so we should hear from them" and then published interviews, but that's not all she did.
posted by yaymukund at 5:47 AM on February 20, 2018
There's multiple layers to unpack here. Jessica Dimmock is a documentary photographer and there's a thing of documentary photographers and trans people right now. I feel like some of the editorial focus of the framing and interviews likely reflects some of that bias. I didn't get the idea of "honest" vs. "dishonest" trans people. The first reference to "honesty" is contrasted with the closet, and the great lengths these women went through to maintain masculine appearances. The second reference comes from Amy's expression of her values. Some of those women saw themselves as part of a trans movement, some did not. I found the emphasis on early childhood trans moments and binary identification to be a bit troublesome, but they're long-standing media biases.
I'm getting a bit uncomfortable here because I feel this discussion is shifting to intergenerational finger-pointing, with middle-aged trans people wrestling with a history in the closet at the cross hairs. That's personally uncomfortable as I'm procrastinating on gender-process homework in my late 40s, and I feel that middle-aged people in the closet who are just now disclosing to close friends and family are the wrong direction to punch. Invisible queerness is an environmental health hazard you don't escape by "passing."
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 8:17 AM on February 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
I'm getting a bit uncomfortable here because I feel this discussion is shifting to intergenerational finger-pointing, with middle-aged trans people wrestling with a history in the closet at the cross hairs. That's personally uncomfortable as I'm procrastinating on gender-process homework in my late 40s, and I feel that middle-aged people in the closet who are just now disclosing to close friends and family are the wrong direction to punch. Invisible queerness is an environmental health hazard you don't escape by "passing."
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 8:17 AM on February 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
The word "honest" only occurs twice in the article. First, in Dimmock describing the photo project:
Then, in a quote from Amy:
The word "dishonest" does not appear in the article.
Regarding generational issues, I'm in the somewhat interesting position of being a creaky old fart (will be 48 this summer) and also a baby queer (it's been a little over two years since I began realizing that I'm not cis, female, or binary).
We're beginning to hear more stories from people whose experience doesn't fit the formerly dominant narrative of "I've always known I was a [boy/girl] even though everyone around me told me I was a [girl/boy], and I want to fully transition to the other side of the binary and pass undetectably enough that cis people don't realize I'm trans" and from people who are trans without having experienced dysphoria. I think this is great. I hope we can listen to the variety of experiences people have had, instead of sliding into criticizing each other as individuals or generationally for "not doing trans right".
posted by Lexica at 1:57 PM on February 20, 2018 [4 favorites]
“It places the women in the settings in which they found creative ways to steal away and express their honest identities in private,” she explains. “They are intentional and accurate to their stories.”As I read this, it's saying that their female identities are their "honest" identities, as opposed to the implied dishonesty of needing to hide who they really are.
Then, in a quote from Amy:
I’m a good, honest, decent guy ... and just because sometimes I wear women’s clothing or I even feel like a woman, that doesn’t change. I’m still a decent guy. I still respect people. I always root for the underdog, you know. Always respectful—of ladies, especially so. And that doesn’t change just because I got women’s clothing on.This reads to me as saying that being trans doesn't mean a good person becomes bad or an honest one becomes dishonest; if they were a good, honest, decent person presenting as one gender they'll still be a good, honest, decent person presenting as a different gender.
The word "dishonest" does not appear in the article.
Regarding generational issues, I'm in the somewhat interesting position of being a creaky old fart (will be 48 this summer) and also a baby queer (it's been a little over two years since I began realizing that I'm not cis, female, or binary).
We're beginning to hear more stories from people whose experience doesn't fit the formerly dominant narrative of "I've always known I was a [boy/girl] even though everyone around me told me I was a [girl/boy], and I want to fully transition to the other side of the binary and pass undetectably enough that cis people don't realize I'm trans" and from people who are trans without having experienced dysphoria. I think this is great. I hope we can listen to the variety of experiences people have had, instead of sliding into criticizing each other as individuals or generationally for "not doing trans right".
posted by Lexica at 1:57 PM on February 20, 2018 [4 favorites]
I have been very careful to direct my criticism at Dimmock for her political framing rather than any trans people sharing their stories because I'm super on board with everyone talking about their own gender or genders or lack of gender however they want to.
posted by yaymukund at 4:19 PM on February 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by yaymukund at 4:19 PM on February 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
Thanks yaymukund. That helps, actually. For me at least, after spending so very, very long in hiding, it's not easy to tell these stories. And it's not even slightly on you (of course!) but I have learned to view metafilter threads about gender as very fraught and unfriendly spaces. It's easy to jump at shadows. Thank you so much for clarifying. Speaking only for myself of course, I really appreciate it!
(I also agree with what you're saying, too)
posted by saltbush and olive at 7:39 PM on February 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
(I also agree with what you're saying, too)
posted by saltbush and olive at 7:39 PM on February 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
It is on me to play respectability politics when people throw around broad generalisations like "young and fuck-you and nonbinary" or "intergenerational finger-pointing."
But I meant what I said and I'm glad it gives you some comfort.
posted by yaymukund at 3:32 AM on February 21, 2018
But I meant what I said and I'm glad it gives you some comfort.
posted by yaymukund at 3:32 AM on February 21, 2018
I'm not even certain what "respectability politics" can even mean when applied to middle-aged genderqueer people negotiating a space where we have no hope of being cute or fashionable.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 4:34 AM on February 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 4:34 AM on February 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
The context to that last comment is that I feel like every day I'm accused of having both respectability and resources as a trans person. I'm trying to work out how far I can go this time and keep my job, and the resources available are paid treatment and a weekly small-group meeting (one of a handful in the state).
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 5:35 AM on February 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 5:35 AM on February 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
The context to that last comment is that I feel like every day I'm accused of having both respectability and resources as a trans person. I'm trying to work out how far I can go this time and keep my job, and the resources available are paid treatment and a weekly small-group meeting (one of a handful in the state).
Hey, look, I wrote a long comment explaining what I meant by respectability politics but I deleted it because it seems besides the point. I wasn't trying to accuse you of anything, I'm sorry I made you feel this way, and I hope things look up.
posted by yaymukund at 6:29 AM on February 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
Hey, look, I wrote a long comment explaining what I meant by respectability politics but I deleted it because it seems besides the point. I wasn't trying to accuse you of anything, I'm sorry I made you feel this way, and I hope things look up.
posted by yaymukund at 6:29 AM on February 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
Thank you, I apologize for getting touchy and taking it the wrong way.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 6:44 AM on February 21, 2018
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 6:44 AM on February 21, 2018
GenderNullPointerException - I think that you weren't touchy at all, but justified.
I'm slender (but overly muscular) and I'm aghast how less-fit transgendered people are treated even more poorly ... for whatever (and multiple and multiply insensitive/offensive/ignorant) reasons.
posted by porpoise at 9:01 PM on February 21, 2018
I'm slender (but overly muscular) and I'm aghast how less-fit transgendered people are treated even more poorly ... for whatever (and multiple and multiply insensitive/offensive/ignorant) reasons.
posted by porpoise at 9:01 PM on February 21, 2018
It is on me to play respectability politics when people throw around broad generalisations like "young and fuck-you and nonbinary"
FWIW, as the one who wrote that, I'm young(ish) and nonbinary and I was trying to say that people like me get a lot more representation now than we used to, not to point any fingers at anyone else. I'm sorry I added to the ambient intergenerational bullshit.
posted by nebulawindphone at 12:25 PM on February 23, 2018
FWIW, as the one who wrote that, I'm young(ish) and nonbinary and I was trying to say that people like me get a lot more representation now than we used to, not to point any fingers at anyone else. I'm sorry I added to the ambient intergenerational bullshit.
posted by nebulawindphone at 12:25 PM on February 23, 2018
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