Cartography is democratizing but not equitable
March 14, 2018 4:54 PM Subscribe
Who maps the world? Why women cartographers are important.
Any open mapping/data meeting I've attended locally has been 95% white guys. Which, yes, okay, I am one, but it makes me uncomfortable. All of my GIS and geography instructors were men, all but one of them white, in a city that is majority-minority.
I've met Cindy (Cynthia) Brewer, Geography department head at Penn State, and she's excellent. Her Color Brewer site (color picker for maps) has been a great resource.
Wikipedia has a category for women geographers, but I confess I am not familiar with most of them. Which is, of course, part of the problem.
posted by AFABulous at 5:23 PM on March 14, 2018 [8 favorites]
I've met Cindy (Cynthia) Brewer, Geography department head at Penn State, and she's excellent. Her Color Brewer site (color picker for maps) has been a great resource.
Wikipedia has a category for women geographers, but I confess I am not familiar with most of them. Which is, of course, part of the problem.
posted by AFABulous at 5:23 PM on March 14, 2018 [8 favorites]
I know Heather Leson (HOTOSM, OSMF board) from the Toronto OSM meetup, and Anita "underdark" Graser does amazing work with QGIS. But there's too much white guy noise in open mapping, and good voices get drowned out.
I mean, nothing compares to the burning flames that came out of the discussion of a Code of Conduct for the OSMF mailing lists. No less than John fucking Gilmore flipped his wig over the possibility of the CoC and shut the whole discussion down. I might just pull back to maintaining my neighbourhood and go no-contact with the rest of the OSM communications infrastructure: it's likely where I can do the most good.
posted by scruss at 5:58 PM on March 14, 2018 [3 favorites]
I mean, nothing compares to the burning flames that came out of the discussion of a Code of Conduct for the OSMF mailing lists. No less than John fucking Gilmore flipped his wig over the possibility of the CoC and shut the whole discussion down. I might just pull back to maintaining my neighbourhood and go no-contact with the rest of the OSM communications infrastructure: it's likely where I can do the most good.
posted by scruss at 5:58 PM on March 14, 2018 [3 favorites]
Yes, greater diversity among contributors to OSM would be a wonderful thing. I haven't seen any gender-based harassment on talk-us or imports, but people do get unfriendly at times on imports thanks to a few people who think all imports are bad yet still insist on commenting on every single one. It's still (mild) harassment that turns people off.
Part of the issue is that open source projects and programming in particular attracts poorly socialized people suffering from untreated ASD or other disorders that exacerbate the tendency of people to be total assholes. And of course the assholes almost universally believe they are God's gift from heaven and can do no wrong because they have fit in well with other groups of toxic assholes.
Point being that at its core the issue in a lot of projects is less about toxic masculinity and more about toxic non-socialization that slowly moves towards toxic masculinity as the people at issue end up finding the wrong communities on the Internet and bringing that bullshit into all the places they found earlier on in life.
(For all I know they may also be pulling nasty shit off list, but obviously I am not privy to that, only the stuff that is sent to the lists)
The "odd" thing is that despite the reputation OSM is developing of late, of the people whose gender and orientation I know, there are far more queer people than cishet people that are prolific contributors.
posted by wierdo at 6:37 PM on March 14, 2018 [4 favorites]
Part of the issue is that open source projects and programming in particular attracts poorly socialized people suffering from untreated ASD or other disorders that exacerbate the tendency of people to be total assholes. And of course the assholes almost universally believe they are God's gift from heaven and can do no wrong because they have fit in well with other groups of toxic assholes.
Point being that at its core the issue in a lot of projects is less about toxic masculinity and more about toxic non-socialization that slowly moves towards toxic masculinity as the people at issue end up finding the wrong communities on the Internet and bringing that bullshit into all the places they found earlier on in life.
(For all I know they may also be pulling nasty shit off list, but obviously I am not privy to that, only the stuff that is sent to the lists)
The "odd" thing is that despite the reputation OSM is developing of late, of the people whose gender and orientation I know, there are far more queer people than cishet people that are prolific contributors.
posted by wierdo at 6:37 PM on March 14, 2018 [4 favorites]
I know tons of female cartographers actually. Like 10 or 12 people who's full time job it is to map things and who are also women. I know some men too but more women at this point. But most professional cartographers aren't doing the open source thing, because they already map things 40 hours per week plus. That's keen amateurs for the most part so not surprising it's dominated by odd types. Most things like that are.
posted by fshgrl at 9:08 PM on March 14, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by fshgrl at 9:08 PM on March 14, 2018 [4 favorites]
Nelson, can you tell me more about this? This is pretty unsettling to me.
posted by koavf at 10:57 PM on March 14, 2018
posted by koavf at 10:57 PM on March 14, 2018
This was a really interesting article, thanks. This part did make me pause though:
Doctors have been tagged more than 80,000 times, while healthcare facilities that specialize in abortion have been tagged only 10; gynecology, near 1,500; midwife, 233, fertility clinics, none. Only one building has been tagged as a domestic violence facility, and 15 as a gender-based violence facility. That’s not because these facilities don’t exist—it’s because the men mapping them don’t know they do, or don’t care enough to notice.
I'm not sure but there might well be intention behind making domestic violence shelters and abortion providers a little harder to find. This could be a goal shared by many women and men alike. I don't think its prima facie evidence of sexism, unlike many of the other points made in the article.
posted by Rumple at 12:16 AM on March 15, 2018 [5 favorites]
Doctors have been tagged more than 80,000 times, while healthcare facilities that specialize in abortion have been tagged only 10; gynecology, near 1,500; midwife, 233, fertility clinics, none. Only one building has been tagged as a domestic violence facility, and 15 as a gender-based violence facility. That’s not because these facilities don’t exist—it’s because the men mapping them don’t know they do, or don’t care enough to notice.
I'm not sure but there might well be intention behind making domestic violence shelters and abortion providers a little harder to find. This could be a goal shared by many women and men alike. I don't think its prima facie evidence of sexism, unlike many of the other points made in the article.
posted by Rumple at 12:16 AM on March 15, 2018 [5 favorites]
That reminds me of a presentation that I managed to catch at the last World Urban Forum, from this India-based crowdsourced mapping app: Safetipin
From their About page:
SafetiPin is a social enterprise providing a number of technology solutions to make our cities safer for women and others. We use apps to collect information and engage with individuals, and provide back end solutions for large scale data collection and analytics. We work with governments, NGOs, city planners, international agencies and corporates, to provide and use safety data for change.
At the core of the app is the Safety Audit. It consists of a set of 9 parameters that together contribute to the perception of safety. Each audit results in a pin on the specific location where the audit was performed and also records the time and date. The colour of the pin is red, orange or green based on the measure of the parameters. Based on audit data in an area, a Safety Score is generated.
Any user can do an audit or post their feeling at a particular place. Users can agree to posts, put up their own comments, and even post it on Facebook, Twitter and Google Plus. We hope that SafetiPin will be used for connecting individuals with the community via free crowd sourcing.
Further, we are now engaging different methods to do large scale data collection in cities, covering all major roads and areas. This data is shared with users of SafetiPin and with key urban stakeholders such as planning departments and the police to provide inputs into improving safety conditions.
posted by cendawanita at 3:09 AM on March 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
From their About page:
SafetiPin is a social enterprise providing a number of technology solutions to make our cities safer for women and others. We use apps to collect information and engage with individuals, and provide back end solutions for large scale data collection and analytics. We work with governments, NGOs, city planners, international agencies and corporates, to provide and use safety data for change.
At the core of the app is the Safety Audit. It consists of a set of 9 parameters that together contribute to the perception of safety. Each audit results in a pin on the specific location where the audit was performed and also records the time and date. The colour of the pin is red, orange or green based on the measure of the parameters. Based on audit data in an area, a Safety Score is generated.
Any user can do an audit or post their feeling at a particular place. Users can agree to posts, put up their own comments, and even post it on Facebook, Twitter and Google Plus. We hope that SafetiPin will be used for connecting individuals with the community via free crowd sourcing.
Further, we are now engaging different methods to do large scale data collection in cities, covering all major roads and areas. This data is shared with users of SafetiPin and with key urban stakeholders such as planning departments and the police to provide inputs into improving safety conditions.
posted by cendawanita at 3:09 AM on March 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
I am a female cartographer! There are lots of us! But there are still lots more men (especially straight white men). In the average workplace, in discussions, at conferences, etc. It's becoming more balanced (largely through the efforts of a lot of fantastic women working together), but we're not there yet.
As far as open source and OSM go, as Nelson mentioned above, it is super easy to get burned out by the toxic masculinity bullshit. Lots of women (I am one) get enthusiastically involved in the community and not long after decide it's better to just keep your head down and quietly make your contributions. It's such a shame, because that enthusiasm is really powerful, and these dudes are just letting it go to waste in favor of their own gatekeeping nonsense.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 6:41 AM on March 15, 2018 [8 favorites]
As far as open source and OSM go, as Nelson mentioned above, it is super easy to get burned out by the toxic masculinity bullshit. Lots of women (I am one) get enthusiastically involved in the community and not long after decide it's better to just keep your head down and quietly make your contributions. It's such a shame, because that enthusiasm is really powerful, and these dudes are just letting it go to waste in favor of their own gatekeeping nonsense.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 6:41 AM on March 15, 2018 [8 favorites]
From the article: "On OMS, buildings aren’t just identified as buildings; they’re “tagged” with specifics according to mappers’ and editors’ preferences. “If two to five percent of our mappers are women, that means only a subset of that get[s] to decide what tags are important, and what tags get our attention,” said Levine.
Sports arenas? Lots of those. Strip clubs? Cities contain multitudes. Bars? More than one could possibly comprehend.
Meanwhile, childcare centers, health clinics, abortion clinics, and specialty clinics that deal with women’s health are vastly underrepresented. In 2011, the OSM community rejected an appeal to add the “childcare” tag at all. It was finally approved in 2013, and in the time since, it’s been used more than 12,000 times.
Doctors have been tagged more than 80,000 times, while healthcare facilities that specialize in abortion have been tagged only 10; gynecology, near 1,500; midwife, 233, fertility clinics, none. Only one building has been tagged as a domestic violence facility, and 15 as a gender-based violence facility. That’s not because these facilities don’t exist—it’s because the men mapping them don’t know they do, or don’t care enough to notice."
okay but who is going to map these FLAMES ON THE SIDE OF MY FACE
IMAGINE BEING SUCH A GARBAGE PERSON THAT YOU THINK TAGGING CHILDCARE FACILITIES IS BAD ENOUGH TO TAKE A STANCE AGAINST IT
WHY. WHY. WHY.
(thank you for sharing, AFABulous, this is fascinating even as it enrages.)
posted by a fiendish thingy at 9:23 AM on March 15, 2018 [5 favorites]
Sports arenas? Lots of those. Strip clubs? Cities contain multitudes. Bars? More than one could possibly comprehend.
Meanwhile, childcare centers, health clinics, abortion clinics, and specialty clinics that deal with women’s health are vastly underrepresented. In 2011, the OSM community rejected an appeal to add the “childcare” tag at all. It was finally approved in 2013, and in the time since, it’s been used more than 12,000 times.
Doctors have been tagged more than 80,000 times, while healthcare facilities that specialize in abortion have been tagged only 10; gynecology, near 1,500; midwife, 233, fertility clinics, none. Only one building has been tagged as a domestic violence facility, and 15 as a gender-based violence facility. That’s not because these facilities don’t exist—it’s because the men mapping them don’t know they do, or don’t care enough to notice."
okay but who is going to map these FLAMES ON THE SIDE OF MY FACE
IMAGINE BEING SUCH A GARBAGE PERSON THAT YOU THINK TAGGING CHILDCARE FACILITIES IS BAD ENOUGH TO TAKE A STANCE AGAINST IT
WHY. WHY. WHY.
(thank you for sharing, AFABulous, this is fascinating even as it enrages.)
posted by a fiendish thingy at 9:23 AM on March 15, 2018 [5 favorites]
I was just coming to post this and am thrilled to see that others like it. Mapping is incredibly important for everyone. Thanks for posting.
posted by MovableBookLady at 9:40 AM on March 15, 2018
posted by MovableBookLady at 9:40 AM on March 15, 2018
Here's some of the history of the childcare tag discussion. The discussion of kindergarten vs childcare is a perfect example of a form of OSM hostility, albeit a pretty mild one.
There's a real substantive issue here; there's overlap between the already-used "kindergarten" tag and the newly proposed "childcare". It made sense to sort that out up front. There's also some language and cultural ambiguity confusing things. But the tone of that first comment from Fabi2 is anything but supportive or collaborative. "You have problem. I challenge you about problem. Here is a reductio ad absurdum about your problem." Not "hey, there's a problem, let's figure out how to solve it together".
Open source culture is full of this kind of aggressive discussion. This particular example is quite mild, too, a lot of it gets much more heated. wierdo may be right that the problem here is more just lack of social skills vs specifically misogynist. But I've pretty much never seen a woman be rude in OSM discussions the way I see men be rude, and I have to think there's something going on there.
posted by Nelson at 10:26 AM on March 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
There's a real substantive issue here; there's overlap between the already-used "kindergarten" tag and the newly proposed "childcare". It made sense to sort that out up front. There's also some language and cultural ambiguity confusing things. But the tone of that first comment from Fabi2 is anything but supportive or collaborative. "You have problem. I challenge you about problem. Here is a reductio ad absurdum about your problem." Not "hey, there's a problem, let's figure out how to solve it together".
Open source culture is full of this kind of aggressive discussion. This particular example is quite mild, too, a lot of it gets much more heated. wierdo may be right that the problem here is more just lack of social skills vs specifically misogynist. But I've pretty much never seen a woman be rude in OSM discussions the way I see men be rude, and I have to think there's something going on there.
posted by Nelson at 10:26 AM on March 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
When our local group was forming, we spoke to local authorities and were advised not to add domestic violence facilities and shelters unless they were clearly marked/signed from the street.
posted by scruss at 12:24 PM on March 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by scruss at 12:24 PM on March 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
Mrs. exogenous is also a cartographer. We visited Ireland a few years ago and had the usual questions at customs and immigration: what's the purpose of your visit, for how long, etc. The question about our jobs caused caught us by surprise for some reason (I blame the red-eye flight) and apparently our answers surprised the Irish official as well. He then, word-for-word, uttered the following : "I know what a lawyer does, he fooks people over, but what the fook does a cartographer do?!"
posted by exogenous at 1:02 PM on March 15, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by exogenous at 1:02 PM on March 15, 2018 [6 favorites]
I definitely count in the "Women who work full time in maps and thus don't really do much outside of work" category. Also I'm not convinced that I could work on OSM without it feeling like it might be a conflict of interest or even worry that I'm going to accidentally share information that I wouldn't have authority to.
I wouldn't call myself a cartographer, but I wonder if that's more a personal block than any good external reasoning.
posted by that girl at 1:04 PM on March 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
I wouldn't call myself a cartographer, but I wonder if that's more a personal block than any good external reasoning.
posted by that girl at 1:04 PM on March 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
Heather Leson wrote about this in her OSM diary: Building an inclusive map - OSM and gender discussion
posted by scruss at 12:43 PM on March 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by scruss at 12:43 PM on March 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
… and Heather's diary is now full of all the comments that make OSM a minefield. Just read the article, avoid the comments :-(
posted by scruss at 3:46 PM on March 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by scruss at 3:46 PM on March 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
Or read the comments if you need to know the sorts of bullshit that passes for "community" in OSM. It really is deeply broken.
posted by Nelson at 5:28 PM on March 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 5:28 PM on March 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
Well, those comments are completely rage-inducing and stupid thanks to the wilful ignorance and pointlessly combative tone,, but for the most part aren't abusive (though some may have been deleted since the your comment). If that was the highest level of shittiness I ever saw in the community, I'd take it as a win.
The biggest community-wide problem I see is the large proportion of participants who can't seem to disagree on anything without resorting to dismissive, angry, or otherwise disrespectful phrasing rather than polite disagreement.
Until that's solved, I don't blame anyone for not wanting to put themselves through that just so they can map POIs that we don't yet have good tags for. Google may be shitty about a lot of things, but I've never heard of anyone being berated for their contribution to Google Maps, even if it ends up being shitcanned for some reason. The people who approve submissions don't feel the need to argue about it.
Some of that is probably a fundamental limitation of open source projects that have large communities. People are a lot more likely to feel personally invested in OSM, whereas even the most prolific amateur contributors to GMaps treat it more like a fun side job. That personal stake often leads people to take offense to even constructive criticism since they think of (at least part of) the map as theirs, especially here in the US where many fairly large cities only have one or two people doing the vast majority of the work in the area. It seems to get less personal over in Europe where there are a large number of people working in any given area.
It might also help if the mostly ADHD-types who contribute to projects like this would get it through their skulls that the rejection they feel so strongly when even the most mild of corrections is made is a symptom of their disease, not of other people being assholes. Since they don't, they go into full asshole mode and all the while blame the person they are shouting at for starting it.
Untreated mental illness is a cancer on our ability to coexist. Yet another thing that would be made better with universal health care...
posted by wierdo at 6:48 PM on March 19, 2018
The biggest community-wide problem I see is the large proportion of participants who can't seem to disagree on anything without resorting to dismissive, angry, or otherwise disrespectful phrasing rather than polite disagreement.
Until that's solved, I don't blame anyone for not wanting to put themselves through that just so they can map POIs that we don't yet have good tags for. Google may be shitty about a lot of things, but I've never heard of anyone being berated for their contribution to Google Maps, even if it ends up being shitcanned for some reason. The people who approve submissions don't feel the need to argue about it.
Some of that is probably a fundamental limitation of open source projects that have large communities. People are a lot more likely to feel personally invested in OSM, whereas even the most prolific amateur contributors to GMaps treat it more like a fun side job. That personal stake often leads people to take offense to even constructive criticism since they think of (at least part of) the map as theirs, especially here in the US where many fairly large cities only have one or two people doing the vast majority of the work in the area. It seems to get less personal over in Europe where there are a large number of people working in any given area.
It might also help if the mostly ADHD-types who contribute to projects like this would get it through their skulls that the rejection they feel so strongly when even the most mild of corrections is made is a symptom of their disease, not of other people being assholes. Since they don't, they go into full asshole mode and all the while blame the person they are shouting at for starting it.
Untreated mental illness is a cancer on our ability to coexist. Yet another thing that would be made better with universal health care...
posted by wierdo at 6:48 PM on March 19, 2018
you typed "ADHD" but I think you misspelled "toxic masculinity"
posted by AFABulous at 7:33 PM on March 19, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by AFABulous at 7:33 PM on March 19, 2018 [6 favorites]
No, I meant what I wrote. A lack of awareness of the symptoms of their disease means that the vast majority of even those who are being treated with Adderall to address attention span issues tend to think in fairly fucked up ways and it causes them to lash out.
But yes, when they then find an accepting community among incels or other shitty bro types, they are easily seduced (RSD is a serious thing, look it up..it really fucking sucks, speaking from experience) with talk about how it's all everyone else's fault they feel shitty all the time and they adopt the language of the people who aren't "making" them feel that way.
Now, I'm not saying that many, many people are just misogynistic assholes, I'm saying that the prevalence of the resultant abuse is exacerbated by untreated mental illness. (Among many other societal issues that allow virulent racism and misogyny to remain as widespread as it is) I don't expect people on the receiving end of the shit to care why people are being shitty, but I do think it behooves those of us who do have the mental space to differentiate between the instigators and the followers. The latter will get a lot quieter and are a lot less likely to pass it on to their kids if we deal with the former effectively.
There was a time in my life I would have either literally have taken a break from MeFi for a good long while or flamed the everliving shit out of you for daring to disagree, not because I'm an asshole (though I am), but because being disagreed with is literally less enjoyable to me than being kicked in the crotch repeatedly.
posted by wierdo at 9:36 AM on March 20, 2018
But yes, when they then find an accepting community among incels or other shitty bro types, they are easily seduced (RSD is a serious thing, look it up..it really fucking sucks, speaking from experience) with talk about how it's all everyone else's fault they feel shitty all the time and they adopt the language of the people who aren't "making" them feel that way.
Now, I'm not saying that many, many people are just misogynistic assholes, I'm saying that the prevalence of the resultant abuse is exacerbated by untreated mental illness. (Among many other societal issues that allow virulent racism and misogyny to remain as widespread as it is) I don't expect people on the receiving end of the shit to care why people are being shitty, but I do think it behooves those of us who do have the mental space to differentiate between the instigators and the followers. The latter will get a lot quieter and are a lot less likely to pass it on to their kids if we deal with the former effectively.
There was a time in my life I would have either literally have taken a break from MeFi for a good long while or flamed the everliving shit out of you for daring to disagree, not because I'm an asshole (though I am), but because being disagreed with is literally less enjoyable to me than being kicked in the crotch repeatedly.
posted by wierdo at 9:36 AM on March 20, 2018
ADHD is not a mood disorder. If you get extremely angry when someone disagrees with you, that's something else. My abusive ex liked to use that excuse and my therapist set me straight.
ADHD doesn't make one a misogynist either. Back to the article, women are driven out or kept away by men. Women have ADHD too, so that can't be the excuse.
posted by AFABulous at 4:24 PM on March 20, 2018 [5 favorites]
ADHD doesn't make one a misogynist either. Back to the article, women are driven out or kept away by men. Women have ADHD too, so that can't be the excuse.
posted by AFABulous at 4:24 PM on March 20, 2018 [5 favorites]
At no time did I say that mental illness excuses or causes misogyny. Or that it excuses abusive behavior of any sort. Or even that it excuses people being assholes without any focus on a particular group. Please don't put words in my mouth.
ADHD has much more far reaching effects than you (and most people, including many professionals) realize. It isn't only being unable to remain still and/or an inability to focus. That was the state of the literature back in the 80s when it was still called ADD. If your therapist told you that, well, I hope they aren't diagnosing people or dispensing medication. It's one thing to correctly say that having an illness does not excuse shitty behavior or that you have to put up with it, quite another to say that your ex was incorrect in saying that it isn't part of the spectrum of ADHD symptoms if that is in fact what you meant.
Whether the underlying biological abnormalities that cause ADHD are directly responsible for the mood-related aspects or they are triggered by the resultant dysfunction isn't particularly relevant. Either way more than a majority of diagnosed ADHD sufferers also have mood-related symptoms. Worse, when people act as if they don't exist, people aren't aware that their responses to certain things are in fact abnormal and they don't get the help they need or even realize there is an actual problem.
For what it's worth, it isn't at all surprising that women, even those with ADHD, aren't shouty assholes. For whatever reason (probably socialization, for the most part) women are far more likely than men to turn their anger inward and harm themselves than they are to lash out at others. Men are more likely to lash out, though the numbers aren't quite as lopsided. It's been a while since I looked at primary sources, but my recollection is that it's around 70-80% self harm for women and between 30 and 40 percent for men.
To repeat myself since it apparently wasn't clear, what I'm saying is that understanding why people do the things they do helps light the way toward solving the problem and that treating mental illness as seriously as we do physical ailments will in and of itself help cut down the sheer volume of shit that is being spewed these days. Also, those of us who aren't targets might do well to figure out a way to help people who are in danger of getting themselves into shitty communities find more positive communities.
posted by wierdo at 9:00 PM on March 20, 2018
ADHD has much more far reaching effects than you (and most people, including many professionals) realize. It isn't only being unable to remain still and/or an inability to focus. That was the state of the literature back in the 80s when it was still called ADD. If your therapist told you that, well, I hope they aren't diagnosing people or dispensing medication. It's one thing to correctly say that having an illness does not excuse shitty behavior or that you have to put up with it, quite another to say that your ex was incorrect in saying that it isn't part of the spectrum of ADHD symptoms if that is in fact what you meant.
Whether the underlying biological abnormalities that cause ADHD are directly responsible for the mood-related aspects or they are triggered by the resultant dysfunction isn't particularly relevant. Either way more than a majority of diagnosed ADHD sufferers also have mood-related symptoms. Worse, when people act as if they don't exist, people aren't aware that their responses to certain things are in fact abnormal and they don't get the help they need or even realize there is an actual problem.
For what it's worth, it isn't at all surprising that women, even those with ADHD, aren't shouty assholes. For whatever reason (probably socialization, for the most part) women are far more likely than men to turn their anger inward and harm themselves than they are to lash out at others. Men are more likely to lash out, though the numbers aren't quite as lopsided. It's been a while since I looked at primary sources, but my recollection is that it's around 70-80% self harm for women and between 30 and 40 percent for men.
To repeat myself since it apparently wasn't clear, what I'm saying is that understanding why people do the things they do helps light the way toward solving the problem and that treating mental illness as seriously as we do physical ailments will in and of itself help cut down the sheer volume of shit that is being spewed these days. Also, those of us who aren't targets might do well to figure out a way to help people who are in danger of getting themselves into shitty communities find more positive communities.
posted by wierdo at 9:00 PM on March 20, 2018
Don't 👏 diagnose 👏 people 👏 over 👏 the 👏 internet.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:05 PM on March 20, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by tobascodagama at 9:05 PM on March 20, 2018 [6 favorites]
wierdo, as a mapper with adult-diagnosed ADD, I find your comments immensely hurtful. Please consider the outcomes your words may have rather than your intent to inform. To me, your commentaries are coming across as an extended “rid kids be like ____” rant.
posted by A Friend of Dug [sock] at 6:09 AM on March 21, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by A Friend of Dug [sock] at 6:09 AM on March 21, 2018 [3 favorites]
I certainly didn't intend to offend, only inform, what with it being something I have personally struggled with for 30+ years at this point. I used to be a dick a lot before I figured out what normal actually was, and still often struggle with it. I'm just thankful I was only insensitive and assholish and mostly just idiot kid rather than getting sucked into the shit people get sucked into these days thanks to the Internet no longer being an unknown backwater.
posted by wierdo at 9:07 AM on March 21, 2018
posted by wierdo at 9:07 AM on March 21, 2018
On a related topic, Carraro & Wissink's paper Participation and marginality on the geoweb: The politics of non-mapping on OpenStreetMap Jerusalem (doi: 10.1016/j.geoforum.2018.02.001 ) “… challenge[s] prevailing understandings of (non)participation as the product of exclusion alone, and indicate that geoweb scholars should pay greater attention to non-users, and their engagements with crowdsourced projects from an outsider position.”
(NB: I/P content)
posted by scruss at 9:44 AM on March 24, 2018
(NB: I/P content)
posted by scruss at 9:44 AM on March 24, 2018
ResearchWeb link for the OpenStreetMap Jerusalem paper. The "full PDF" download worked for me without a login, didn't have to bother finding Sci-Hub today.
posted by Nelson at 10:14 AM on March 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Nelson at 10:14 AM on March 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
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I can't comment on how much of the abuse is specifically misogynistic; a lot of it just generally awful. Some women are active, particularly in HOT and OSM-US, including in leadership roles. They get a bunch of shit in exchange for their volunteer work. It's awful.
posted by Nelson at 5:12 PM on March 14, 2018 [14 favorites]