Why am I putting pancake batter on my face? Mind your business.
March 19, 2018 11:02 AM Subscribe
So let me start by saying that I am all here for this and that anyone, man or woman or whomever, who wants to wear makeup can do their thing and should be happy with it. I salute this dude.
That said, I would have bet on a building permanent moonbase before I'd read an article by a black guy talking about how great concealer and foundation is.
But it's great and between this and "Space Force" I think the odds on a moonbase have gone way, way up.
posted by GuyZero at 11:19 AM on March 19, 2018 [7 favorites]
That said, I would have bet on a building permanent moonbase before I'd read an article by a black guy talking about how great concealer and foundation is.
But it's great and between this and "Space Force" I think the odds on a moonbase have gone way, way up.
posted by GuyZero at 11:19 AM on March 19, 2018 [7 favorites]
These types of articles mean that dudes will finally stop saying that "girls" are prettier without makeup, right?
posted by crush at 11:21 AM on March 19, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by crush at 11:21 AM on March 19, 2018 [6 favorites]
"Makeup for men" is pretty glaringly an attempt to increase the size of the overall makeup market, but kudos to the marketing teams for being so tapped into the zeitgeist that making people feel bad about the way they look is in line with current notions of gender equality.
I mean, everyone do what they want with their face, but that's all this is.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 11:31 AM on March 19, 2018 [35 favorites]
I mean, everyone do what they want with their face, but that's all this is.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 11:31 AM on March 19, 2018 [35 favorites]
I really am not seeing much of a difference between the before and after photos. You could swap them around and I wouldn't be able to tell you which does and does not have makeup.
posted by GoblinHoney at 11:31 AM on March 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by GoblinHoney at 11:31 AM on March 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
disclaimer: I am a man who owns concealer
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 11:33 AM on March 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 11:33 AM on March 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
These types of articles mean that dudes will finally stop saying that "girls" are prettier without makeup, right?
(First: I absolutely love everything about men wearing makeup and OMFG this makes men even more attractive and adorable and god dammit that irritates and excites and annoys and delights me all at once.)
That said, AFTER the cultural shitstorm of men wearing makeup blows over and men wearing makeup gains acceptance by the mainstream then men will not suffer wearing makeup they way women have, women will be completely ignored and men's makeup will be of better quality and lower-priced.
posted by Annika Cicada at 11:33 AM on March 19, 2018 [45 favorites]
(First: I absolutely love everything about men wearing makeup and OMFG this makes men even more attractive and adorable and god dammit that irritates and excites and annoys and delights me all at once.)
That said, AFTER the cultural shitstorm of men wearing makeup blows over and men wearing makeup gains acceptance by the mainstream then men will not suffer wearing makeup they way women have, women will be completely ignored and men's makeup will be of better quality and lower-priced.
posted by Annika Cicada at 11:33 AM on March 19, 2018 [45 favorites]
I can barely even be bothered to shave most days, so if this ever catches on I'll just have to accept the fact that I'm doomed to be forever unfashionable.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:39 AM on March 19, 2018 [11 favorites]
posted by tobascodagama at 11:39 AM on March 19, 2018 [11 favorites]
looking forward to seeing the inevitable article in the Atlantic about how millenials are getting rid of gender norms and why that's a bad thing
posted by runt at 11:40 AM on March 19, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by runt at 11:40 AM on March 19, 2018 [5 favorites]
Same, GoblinHoney. For me, I just don't have that eye for subtle visual thingamajigs. Gotta have some prismatic technicolor festivities before I clock it -- or at least, a lot more pancake batter :P
posted by inconstant at 11:42 AM on March 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by inconstant at 11:42 AM on March 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
More men wearing makeup / skincare products means more men wearing some level of sunscreen/SPF, which can only be good in light of our skin cancer rates.
posted by nicebookrack at 11:45 AM on March 19, 2018 [10 favorites]
posted by nicebookrack at 11:45 AM on March 19, 2018 [10 favorites]
Annika, look to the Korean market to see how your predictions play out. I recall seeing ads for makeup targeted to men as early as 2002 there, and at least one of my male co-workers wore it to teach on a regular basis back then.
posted by peppermind at 11:48 AM on March 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by peppermind at 11:48 AM on March 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
That said, I would have bet on a building permanent moonbase before I'd read an article by a black guy talking about how great concealer and foundation is.
Google "RuPaul"
posted by roger ackroyd at 11:49 AM on March 19, 2018 [28 favorites]
Google "RuPaul"
posted by roger ackroyd at 11:49 AM on March 19, 2018 [28 favorites]
A+ wordplay, roger ackroyd
posted by The Gaffer at 11:56 AM on March 19, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by The Gaffer at 11:56 AM on March 19, 2018 [4 favorites]
Ah for a crappy Monday evening this brings me so much joy! He is a delight and looks lovely, especially at the lip gloss stage!
posted by ellieBOA at 12:34 PM on March 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by ellieBOA at 12:34 PM on March 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
"Makeup for men" is pretty glaringly an attempt to increase the size of the overall makeup market
Do you mean the way “Kleenex for men” or “Bounce for men” is? Because if so I mostly agree but also think makeup has been coded female for a really long time in the western world (at least since the 1700s, except for that blip in the 80s among hair metal bands) so I can see why there would be actual utility in helping men realize it doesn’t have to be a specifically female thing.
But if you mean as a concept, then I totally disagree. Being interested in makeup can be a response to social pressure about looks, but it can also be an artistic, aesthetic means of self expression which is certainly not exclusive to a single gender — as evidenced by the fact that throughout history some women have had zero interest in it and many men have had quite a bit of interest in it.
posted by mrmurbles at 12:37 PM on March 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
Do you mean the way “Kleenex for men” or “Bounce for men” is? Because if so I mostly agree but also think makeup has been coded female for a really long time in the western world (at least since the 1700s, except for that blip in the 80s among hair metal bands) so I can see why there would be actual utility in helping men realize it doesn’t have to be a specifically female thing.
But if you mean as a concept, then I totally disagree. Being interested in makeup can be a response to social pressure about looks, but it can also be an artistic, aesthetic means of self expression which is certainly not exclusive to a single gender — as evidenced by the fact that throughout history some women have had zero interest in it and many men have had quite a bit of interest in it.
posted by mrmurbles at 12:37 PM on March 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
"Makeup for men" is pretty glaringly an attempt to increase the size of the overall makeup market, but kudos to the marketing teams for being so tapped into the zeitgeist that making people feel bad about the way they look is in line with current notions of gender equality.
I mean, everyone do what they want with their face, but that's all this is.
I have no data to back this up, but it seems to me that fewer women wear makeup these days, at least on an everyday basis, so I wonder if trying to expand the market to men is a way to make up for that.
This observation comes from working on a college campus, so the people I encounter are usually undergrads or professionals mostly in their 30s-50s, of whom probably 70% are women. Mentally going through the checklist of women in my building, far more DON'T wear makeup than do.
posted by mudpuppie at 1:51 PM on March 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
I mean, everyone do what they want with their face, but that's all this is.
I have no data to back this up, but it seems to me that fewer women wear makeup these days, at least on an everyday basis, so I wonder if trying to expand the market to men is a way to make up for that.
This observation comes from working on a college campus, so the people I encounter are usually undergrads or professionals mostly in their 30s-50s, of whom probably 70% are women. Mentally going through the checklist of women in my building, far more DON'T wear makeup than do.
posted by mudpuppie at 1:51 PM on March 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
Are you certain your sample isn't wearing "natural look" makeup? I'm a middle-aged woman, and I feel like the women I know in the 30-50 bracket are wearing stuff like undereye concealer, tinted SPF moisturizer, and tinted lip balm.
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:56 PM on March 19, 2018 [15 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:56 PM on March 19, 2018 [15 favorites]
I can barely even be bothered to shave most days, so if this ever catches on I'll just have to accept the fact that I'm doomed to be forever unfashionable.The thing about "natural" makeup is that if you don't wear it, people don't think you look unfashionable. They think you look tired. Or they think you look old, which is often what "tired" means. But men are allowed to get old, so I don't think that's going to be as big an issue.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:59 PM on March 19, 2018 [15 favorites]
Mentally going through the checklist of women in my building, far more DON'T wear makeup than do.
So I don't have a huge problem with people having esthetic preferences about makeup (assuming you're not dumping on someone else's preferences in the process) but per Iris Gambol, do you really know they're not wearing makeup? Like, really really? What I mean is, you don't really know. It's possible to have a light touch and use well-matched stuff. And is tinted lip balm "makeup"? Moisturizer with sunscreen? Is a 5-step nightly Korean skincare regime "makeup"?
Now, undergrads not giving a shit about their appearance is indeed a thing. Like 99% of the population looked their best at age 20. But even so, do you really, really, REALLY know?
posted by GuyZero at 2:02 PM on March 19, 2018 [6 favorites]
So I don't have a huge problem with people having esthetic preferences about makeup (assuming you're not dumping on someone else's preferences in the process) but per Iris Gambol, do you really know they're not wearing makeup? Like, really really? What I mean is, you don't really know. It's possible to have a light touch and use well-matched stuff. And is tinted lip balm "makeup"? Moisturizer with sunscreen? Is a 5-step nightly Korean skincare regime "makeup"?
Now, undergrads not giving a shit about their appearance is indeed a thing. Like 99% of the population looked their best at age 20. But even so, do you really, really, REALLY know?
posted by GuyZero at 2:02 PM on March 19, 2018 [6 favorites]
on a college campus, so the people I encounter are usually undergrads or professionals mostly in their 30s-50s
On-campus norms are often wildly different from the corporate sector. A lot of female academics really don't wear any makeup, even 'natural' makeup, and those who do wear makeup generally wear very little. Depending on departments/disciplines, this can be for political reasons; when it's not, it sometimes relates to the fact that promotions work differently at academic institutions, and there's (generally) less pressure to maintain typical aesthetic standards and fewer career and social penalties for choosing not to do so. (It's actually really nice, and for some women I know in academia, it's part of why they stay; in the private world one often can't get away with this.) Norms of dress are different for the same reasons -- again, it can be variable, but I imagine fewer people in your building wear heels on a daily basis, too. Same deal.
But men are allowed to get old, so I don't think that's going to be as big an issue.
if makeup gets normalised across genders, i wonder if this will change? it would take time, but i could certainly see 'no-makeup makeup' becoming de rigueur for everyone, eventually.
posted by halation at 2:09 PM on March 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
On-campus norms are often wildly different from the corporate sector. A lot of female academics really don't wear any makeup, even 'natural' makeup, and those who do wear makeup generally wear very little. Depending on departments/disciplines, this can be for political reasons; when it's not, it sometimes relates to the fact that promotions work differently at academic institutions, and there's (generally) less pressure to maintain typical aesthetic standards and fewer career and social penalties for choosing not to do so. (It's actually really nice, and for some women I know in academia, it's part of why they stay; in the private world one often can't get away with this.) Norms of dress are different for the same reasons -- again, it can be variable, but I imagine fewer people in your building wear heels on a daily basis, too. Same deal.
But men are allowed to get old, so I don't think that's going to be as big an issue.
if makeup gets normalised across genders, i wonder if this will change? it would take time, but i could certainly see 'no-makeup makeup' becoming de rigueur for everyone, eventually.
posted by halation at 2:09 PM on March 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
Huh! Maybe women were onto something all along with this whole makeup thing! Who knew?!
posted by third word on a random page at 2:10 PM on March 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by third word on a random page at 2:10 PM on March 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
The marketing is jumping onto a bandwagon that was primarily started by gay, bi, and GNC bloggers under the age of 30.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 2:19 PM on March 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 2:19 PM on March 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
"Mentally going through the checklist of women in my building, far more DON'T wear makeup than do."
My co-worker just had this conversation with us and the dept next to us regarding his dislike of makeup and how he's so glad so few of us wear it. (yes, he's a dingus)
... and the literally every woman he mentioned as not wearing make up said "Oh, I have makeup on today and most days." (I mean okay, there's only 4 of us on this floor but he did not have a good time of it this morning)
posted by FritoKAL at 3:41 PM on March 19, 2018 [22 favorites]
My co-worker just had this conversation with us and the dept next to us regarding his dislike of makeup and how he's so glad so few of us wear it. (yes, he's a dingus)
... and the literally every woman he mentioned as not wearing make up said "Oh, I have makeup on today and most days." (I mean okay, there's only 4 of us on this floor but he did not have a good time of it this morning)
posted by FritoKAL at 3:41 PM on March 19, 2018 [22 favorites]
I am a 43-year-old woman on a college campus, and yes, I'm absolutely, 100%, really-really for-sure certain that I do not wear makeup, not even under-eye concealer or tinted moisturizer or lip balm. Marvel, and be amazed.
Per their own statements, many of my female colleagues don't.
Personally, I am lucky to have pretty good skin and even luckier to give absolutely zero fucks whether anyone thinks I look tired, sick, or old.
posted by BrashTech at 3:52 PM on March 19, 2018 [6 favorites]
Per their own statements, many of my female colleagues don't.
Personally, I am lucky to have pretty good skin and even luckier to give absolutely zero fucks whether anyone thinks I look tired, sick, or old.
posted by BrashTech at 3:52 PM on March 19, 2018 [6 favorites]
The Professor is in blog has been covering makeup for a few months now and it has really changed my perspective. That and other you tubers have shown me that makeup can be art!
But yes, my academic experience is that women wear minimal makeup.
posted by k8t at 3:57 PM on March 19, 2018
But yes, my academic experience is that women wear minimal makeup.
posted by k8t at 3:57 PM on March 19, 2018
I feel like in these discussions there's always only two modes of why people (mostly women) wear makeup: they're forced to by society, or it's self-expression. This article actually brings up another reason, which is that it looks better on camera. Lenses don't work like human eyes, so to get faces to look the way they actually do in real life, you need makeup. Male actors are definitely wearing makeup when they work. And now that there are phone cameras, we get our photos taken all the time.
On makeup prevalence, I think the average person's skill level is way higher than in the past (because now we can look up tutorials on the internet) so "no-makeup" is more prevalent and subtle.
posted by airmail at 4:08 PM on March 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
On makeup prevalence, I think the average person's skill level is way higher than in the past (because now we can look up tutorials on the internet) so "no-makeup" is more prevalent and subtle.
posted by airmail at 4:08 PM on March 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
have you heard the new foundation for men by l'oreal
it's called hot takes
get more of what you have already - with hot takes
alternate taglines:
because you know you're worth it (and so does society)
maybe he's born with it - or maybe it's structural misogyny
posted by lalochezia at 5:03 PM on March 19, 2018 [11 favorites]
it's called hot takes
get more of what you have already - with hot takes
alternate taglines:
because you know you're worth it (and so does society)
maybe he's born with it - or maybe it's structural misogyny
posted by lalochezia at 5:03 PM on March 19, 2018 [11 favorites]
This isn't just about men/women. The points about makeup and its relationship to gender norms and commercialism are absolutely valid. But this whole thing started when a super racially inclusive brand centered on a black woman's beauty showed an equally beautiful male person of color (DANIEL KALUUYA, Y'ALL) in a high touch media event as proof of their product excellence in a domain that usually preaches normative values related to caucasian female standards of beauty.
I should probably be more jaded, but in the grand scheme of things, if Rihanna makes money because more people want to look more like Daniel Kaluuya, I'm sort of okay with it. I'm even more okay with it when I find the line can apparently perfectly color match both Kaluuya AND Thomas, because I *do* choose to wear makeup, and that kind of range suggests there may be options for my olive-hued female academic face.
posted by BlueBlueElectricBlue at 5:40 PM on March 19, 2018 [22 favorites]
I should probably be more jaded, but in the grand scheme of things, if Rihanna makes money because more people want to look more like Daniel Kaluuya, I'm sort of okay with it. I'm even more okay with it when I find the line can apparently perfectly color match both Kaluuya AND Thomas, because I *do* choose to wear makeup, and that kind of range suggests there may be options for my olive-hued female academic face.
posted by BlueBlueElectricBlue at 5:40 PM on March 19, 2018 [22 favorites]
"Makeup for men" is pretty glaringly an attempt to increase the size of the overall makeup market, but kudos to the marketing teams for being so tapped into the zeitgeist that making people feel bad about the way they look is in line with current notions of gender equality.
Current? This has been going on for years. From 2008:
Current? This has been going on for years. From 2008:
The Patriarchy has heard our many cries about the manifest unfairness that men are allowed to age more gracefully than women, that we are allowed to find aging men lovely, with all their "flaws," their gray hair and rough skin and scars and wrinkles. The Patriarchy has heard us raise our voices to protest the inequity, and it has said: "Let aging men thus be deemed ugly, too."posted by Lexica at 7:13 PM on March 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
So I don't have a huge problem with people having esthetic preferences about makeup (assuming you're not dumping on someone else's preferences in the process) but per Iris Gambol, do you really know they're not wearing makeup? Like, really really?
Well, first off, as you say, I wasn't dumping on anyone else's preferences -- just stating my observation, which is that: It seems to me that in my current workplace, fewer women are wearing makeup, compared to my previous workplaces. Which observation may be skewed, like I said, because I work on a (liberal) college campus.
Secondly, because I work in a (rare?) department where women make up a majority of both staff and faculty, I've actually had this conversation with coworkers. So yeah, like, I really really know that they're not wearing makeup. Which is kind of validating, after a lifetime of being one of the only women in the room without any makeup on.
My co-worker just had this conversation with us and the dept next to us regarding his dislike of makeup and how he's so glad so few of us wear it. (yes, he's a dingus)
Also, just to be clear, I'm not claiming not to be a dingus. But, I am a woman, and I am glad that so few of my coworkers wear makeup, because I've always felt like I'm the weird one because I don't wear it. It makes me feel more "normal," but only because more people are coming over to my side of the do/don't divide. The do/don't divide can't and shouldn't be classified right/wrong or normal/abnormal, but after 20+ years of being on the wrong side of the line, it's comforting to not feel like you're so outnumbered that you're an outlier, or a rebel, or someone with some sub-standard sense of how to present yourself to the world.
(Don't get me started on painted toenails, though. Still very much an outlier in that regard. Progress seems to creep from the head down.)
posted by mudpuppie at 8:26 PM on March 19, 2018 [5 favorites]
Well, first off, as you say, I wasn't dumping on anyone else's preferences -- just stating my observation, which is that: It seems to me that in my current workplace, fewer women are wearing makeup, compared to my previous workplaces. Which observation may be skewed, like I said, because I work on a (liberal) college campus.
Secondly, because I work in a (rare?) department where women make up a majority of both staff and faculty, I've actually had this conversation with coworkers. So yeah, like, I really really know that they're not wearing makeup. Which is kind of validating, after a lifetime of being one of the only women in the room without any makeup on.
My co-worker just had this conversation with us and the dept next to us regarding his dislike of makeup and how he's so glad so few of us wear it. (yes, he's a dingus)
Also, just to be clear, I'm not claiming not to be a dingus. But, I am a woman, and I am glad that so few of my coworkers wear makeup, because I've always felt like I'm the weird one because I don't wear it. It makes me feel more "normal," but only because more people are coming over to my side of the do/don't divide. The do/don't divide can't and shouldn't be classified right/wrong or normal/abnormal, but after 20+ years of being on the wrong side of the line, it's comforting to not feel like you're so outnumbered that you're an outlier, or a rebel, or someone with some sub-standard sense of how to present yourself to the world.
(Don't get me started on painted toenails, though. Still very much an outlier in that regard. Progress seems to creep from the head down.)
posted by mudpuppie at 8:26 PM on March 19, 2018 [5 favorites]
I can barely even be bothered to shave most days, so if this ever catches on I'll just have to accept the fact that I'm doomed to be forever unfashionable. —Tobascodagama
Not necessarily.
posted by Pallas Athena at 9:20 PM on March 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
Not necessarily.
posted by Pallas Athena at 9:20 PM on March 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
Glitter. In your beard.
What a nightmare.
posted by darkstar at 12:16 AM on March 20, 2018 [6 favorites]
What a nightmare.
posted by darkstar at 12:16 AM on March 20, 2018 [6 favorites]
Yeah, honestly. I can do basic make up (yay, college/community theater), but dumping a bunch of glitter in my beard? On top of the aesthetic issues, I weep for my poor plumbing when I eventually wash it out.
posted by tobascodagama at 6:37 AM on March 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by tobascodagama at 6:37 AM on March 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
That said, AFTER the cultural shitstorm of men wearing makeup blows over and men wearing makeup gains acceptance by the mainstream then men will not suffer wearing makeup they way women have, women will be completely ignored and men's makeup will be of better quality and lower-priced.
(whispers):
Jack Black. Kiehl's. Clearance bin "Clinique for Men." Upmarket men's stuff is amazing if, like me, you do not have the stamina to wade into the vast sea of women's skin care products. And yes, the more expensive "male" skincare products cost about the same as the mid-range stuff marketed at women. (Also they are a real boon if you don't like powdery floral scents, which slip into almost everything intended for women.)
posted by grandiloquiet at 6:40 AM on March 20, 2018 [3 favorites]
(whispers):
Jack Black. Kiehl's. Clearance bin "Clinique for Men." Upmarket men's stuff is amazing if, like me, you do not have the stamina to wade into the vast sea of women's skin care products. And yes, the more expensive "male" skincare products cost about the same as the mid-range stuff marketed at women. (Also they are a real boon if you don't like powdery floral scents, which slip into almost everything intended for women.)
posted by grandiloquiet at 6:40 AM on March 20, 2018 [3 favorites]
... and the literally every woman he mentioned as not wearing make up said "Oh, I have makeup on today and most days."
Ok, I had this exact same conversation with my husband a few weeks ago, because he said to my son (and I don't remember what the lead-up was): "Oh, mama doesn't wear makeup." And I was like, "EXCUSE YOU I am wearing foundation and mascara and some other things I won't even bother explaining right now and I wear those EVERY DAY when I leave the house" and then I took my son by the hand and led him into the bathroom and showed him my makeup bag, and explained what everything was for, and said that he could try it some time if he wanted to, and that I wore it because the patriarchy said I had to look pretty and young and if I didn't some people would think bad things about me, and I wished I didn't have to wear makeup, but lots of other boys and girls love to wear makeup, so it's really just whatever you like.
posted by lollymccatburglar at 8:45 AM on March 20, 2018 [10 favorites]
Ok, I had this exact same conversation with my husband a few weeks ago, because he said to my son (and I don't remember what the lead-up was): "Oh, mama doesn't wear makeup." And I was like, "EXCUSE YOU I am wearing foundation and mascara and some other things I won't even bother explaining right now and I wear those EVERY DAY when I leave the house" and then I took my son by the hand and led him into the bathroom and showed him my makeup bag, and explained what everything was for, and said that he could try it some time if he wanted to, and that I wore it because the patriarchy said I had to look pretty and young and if I didn't some people would think bad things about me, and I wished I didn't have to wear makeup, but lots of other boys and girls love to wear makeup, so it's really just whatever you like.
posted by lollymccatburglar at 8:45 AM on March 20, 2018 [10 favorites]
While there has been reasonable horror at the idea of glitter in beards, now is a good time to remind everyone that glitter should never go anywhere near your eyes, unless it is cosmetic glitter. Craft glitter is tiny, sharp metal that can seriously jack up your eyes.
posted by heathergirl at 10:51 AM on March 20, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by heathergirl at 10:51 AM on March 20, 2018 [5 favorites]
The look that I get from people (especially women) when I say I don’t wear makeup is extremely similar to the look I get when I say I don’t watch TV, or I don’t drink alcohol, or the look I got when I used to be a vegetarian.
It’s either that look, or people will somehow be in disbelief, like “ok but what are you REALLY wearing?” like I guess because my cheeks are hella red, and they get even more red for no reason (not rosacea, not acne), it gets interpreted as “too much blush” or something, idk. but when people comment and pick apart my face and criticize the “makeup” I don’t fucking wear, it just makes me even more adverse to makeup because covering up the redness (also: wearing pushup bras or spanx) would be like an admission that I’m ugly for how I was born. It’s a shitty feel, I don’t want anyone else feeling this way about themselves. I don’t like the idea that men should start feeling this way—I’d much rather it go the other way. Or I’d like for makeup to move away from the natural/“no-makeup” makeup look where we all attempt to look effortlessly ageless and pristine and instead to treat it like outer clothing where we explore exciting looks that step outside of “plain face with tiny bits of color in extremely specific areas on the lips and eyelids.” I just think it needs to be said that for all the “yaay, lets all do what we want!” attitudes, as long as you exist in society, your makeup choices DO in fact have an impact on other people’s experiences and behaviors, and at least for me it is far from positive or encouraging.
posted by picklenickle at 11:12 AM on March 20, 2018 [8 favorites]
It’s either that look, or people will somehow be in disbelief, like “ok but what are you REALLY wearing?” like I guess because my cheeks are hella red, and they get even more red for no reason (not rosacea, not acne), it gets interpreted as “too much blush” or something, idk. but when people comment and pick apart my face and criticize the “makeup” I don’t fucking wear, it just makes me even more adverse to makeup because covering up the redness (also: wearing pushup bras or spanx) would be like an admission that I’m ugly for how I was born. It’s a shitty feel, I don’t want anyone else feeling this way about themselves. I don’t like the idea that men should start feeling this way—I’d much rather it go the other way. Or I’d like for makeup to move away from the natural/“no-makeup” makeup look where we all attempt to look effortlessly ageless and pristine and instead to treat it like outer clothing where we explore exciting looks that step outside of “plain face with tiny bits of color in extremely specific areas on the lips and eyelids.” I just think it needs to be said that for all the “yaay, lets all do what we want!” attitudes, as long as you exist in society, your makeup choices DO in fact have an impact on other people’s experiences and behaviors, and at least for me it is far from positive or encouraging.
posted by picklenickle at 11:12 AM on March 20, 2018 [8 favorites]
What a delightful writing voice he has! Really enjoyed this.
posted by merriment at 12:12 PM on March 20, 2018
posted by merriment at 12:12 PM on March 20, 2018
The look that I get from people (especially women) when I say I don’t wear makeup is extremely similar to the look I get when I say I don’t watch TV, or I don’t drink alcohol, or the look I got when I used to be a vegetarian.
I just think it needs to be said that for all the “yaay, lets all do what we want!” attitudes, as long as you exist in society, your makeup choices DO in fact have an impact on other people’s experiences and behaviors, and at least for me it is far from positive or encouraging.
But since you also have apparently been judged in the exact same way for not drinking alcohol, watching TV, or eating meat, everyone else's choices in those realms affect you too.
Do people who like to wear makeup have a greater obligation to those who don't than people who like to watch TV, eat meat or drink alcohol?
Moreover, these people apparently don't know whether you wear makeup or not until you tell them. So is it actually affecting you under any other circumstances than the extremely specific occasions in which you are discussing whether you wear makeup?
Now there was a study in 2011 where they showed 250 people 25 women wearing varying levels of makeup and determined that the women wearing makeup were deemed to be "more competent" than those who weren't.
But that study
-- was funded by CoverGirl
-- hasn't been replicated
-- measured strangers' assessments of women's pictures in the absence of any other information, which is not what happens in the real world where people's evaluation of your competence is informed by more than your face, like your words and actions
So the jerks who judge you for not wearing makeup certainly have an impact on your experience, but the jury is still out on whether what other women do with their own faces meaningfully effects you.
posted by mrmurbles at 2:39 PM on March 20, 2018
I just think it needs to be said that for all the “yaay, lets all do what we want!” attitudes, as long as you exist in society, your makeup choices DO in fact have an impact on other people’s experiences and behaviors, and at least for me it is far from positive or encouraging.
But since you also have apparently been judged in the exact same way for not drinking alcohol, watching TV, or eating meat, everyone else's choices in those realms affect you too.
Do people who like to wear makeup have a greater obligation to those who don't than people who like to watch TV, eat meat or drink alcohol?
Moreover, these people apparently don't know whether you wear makeup or not until you tell them. So is it actually affecting you under any other circumstances than the extremely specific occasions in which you are discussing whether you wear makeup?
Now there was a study in 2011 where they showed 250 people 25 women wearing varying levels of makeup and determined that the women wearing makeup were deemed to be "more competent" than those who weren't.
But that study
-- was funded by CoverGirl
-- hasn't been replicated
-- measured strangers' assessments of women's pictures in the absence of any other information, which is not what happens in the real world where people's evaluation of your competence is informed by more than your face, like your words and actions
So the jerks who judge you for not wearing makeup certainly have an impact on your experience, but the jury is still out on whether what other women do with their own faces meaningfully effects you.
posted by mrmurbles at 2:39 PM on March 20, 2018
But since you also have apparently been judged in the exact same way for not drinking alcohol, watching TV, or eating meat, everyone else's choices in those realms affect you too.
Yeah, they do.
Do people who like to wear makeup have a greater obligation to those who don't than people who like to watch TV, eat meat or drink alcohol?
No. But I will say that issues surrounding makeup and beauty directly affect self esteem, whereas those other things do not.
the jury is still out on whether what other women do with their own faces meaningfully effects you.
If most people are doing a thing, then it sets up the expectation that you must also do the thing. This is a core part of how societies function. In the case of alcohol/tv/meat/makeup/etc there’s all sorts of social attributes assigned to it—namely that if you do not partake in those things then you must be a stick in the mud or holier-than-thou or something along those lines. I’m sure there’s plenty of other things that fall in this category, probably people who don’t use social media or smartphones.
As long as we are not living in a vacuum, our choices do affect one another and there is no real escape from that. You can only try to wedge your own way of being into the public until it’s no longer unexpected. Like the author normalizing men in makeup, so maybe men will be assumed as always wearing it too (and then non-makeup wearing men will face the same issues I face, probably even moreso if men’s makeup styles continue to lean heavily towards the natural/no-makeup makeup look. Oh and they’ll all face heightened beauty standards and feel ugly in their own skin. Whoopee...)
posted by picklenickle at 5:16 PM on March 20, 2018
Yeah, they do.
Do people who like to wear makeup have a greater obligation to those who don't than people who like to watch TV, eat meat or drink alcohol?
No. But I will say that issues surrounding makeup and beauty directly affect self esteem, whereas those other things do not.
the jury is still out on whether what other women do with their own faces meaningfully effects you.
If most people are doing a thing, then it sets up the expectation that you must also do the thing. This is a core part of how societies function. In the case of alcohol/tv/meat/makeup/etc there’s all sorts of social attributes assigned to it—namely that if you do not partake in those things then you must be a stick in the mud or holier-than-thou or something along those lines. I’m sure there’s plenty of other things that fall in this category, probably people who don’t use social media or smartphones.
As long as we are not living in a vacuum, our choices do affect one another and there is no real escape from that. You can only try to wedge your own way of being into the public until it’s no longer unexpected. Like the author normalizing men in makeup, so maybe men will be assumed as always wearing it too (and then non-makeup wearing men will face the same issues I face, probably even moreso if men’s makeup styles continue to lean heavily towards the natural/no-makeup makeup look. Oh and they’ll all face heightened beauty standards and feel ugly in their own skin. Whoopee...)
posted by picklenickle at 5:16 PM on March 20, 2018
picklenickle - I am so sorry that people are being / have been jerks to you. I admit that I'm struggling a bit with resolving a) the clear point that it's bad for people to say judgment-laden things to you about not wearing makeup with b) the murkier issue of whether it's okay to say judgement-laden things (e.g. blame for negative societal norms) to others about wearing makeup.
posted by BlueBlueElectricBlue at 9:49 PM on March 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by BlueBlueElectricBlue at 9:49 PM on March 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
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