Saying it as it is
February 26, 2019 7:49 AM Subscribe
(Twitter thread, NSFW) @bentev28: My 4 year old has recently taken up cursing. Yesterday he referred to bedtime as a "fucking crisis." - @RabidGrizz: We went camping and my almost-3-year old said “GODDAMN IT. We have to sleep in this goddamn tent” when it started raining. - @ashley_lynn628: My almost 3 year old said “mom I can’t open this fucking play doh” - @rabbilaufer: Rabbi’s kid, 3.5yo, when asked about the birthday party he attended, responded: They had that f%^&ing parachute. - @momlevinex: Yeah, i can relate. When my daughter was two, she told me “Gimme my fuckin’ nightgown!” Mother of the year over here...
Tots are sponges and mirrors, absorbing all the sounds around them, and and they show us reflections of ourselves.
The problem is that you can't laugh, or they know they have said something funny and they'll say it again.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:54 AM on February 26, 2019 [23 favorites]
The problem is that you can't laugh, or they know they have said something funny and they'll say it again.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:54 AM on February 26, 2019 [23 favorites]
My daughter (now nineteen) learned to talk oddly -- she had a short period right around two where she would parrot full adult sentences with surprising articulation and clarity. The high point of this was watching her toddle into a room, slap where her jeans pocket would have been if she'd been wearing jeans rather than stretchy leggings, and say "Oh, shit, I forgot my wallet."
I couldn't even blame my husband -- it was very clearly me.
posted by LizardBreath at 7:55 AM on February 26, 2019 [85 favorites]
I couldn't even blame my husband -- it was very clearly me.
posted by LizardBreath at 7:55 AM on February 26, 2019 [85 favorites]
My Sister, after my 3 year old niece locked eyes with her and spilled her fish crackers: "WHY did you DO that?!"
My Niece: "Because I'm an asshole"
(pause)
Almost crying, sister takes niece in her arms and emphatically reassures her that she is NOT an asshole.
posted by Dressed to Kill at 7:59 AM on February 26, 2019 [46 favorites]
My Niece: "Because I'm an asshole"
(pause)
Almost crying, sister takes niece in her arms and emphatically reassures her that she is NOT an asshole.
posted by Dressed to Kill at 7:59 AM on February 26, 2019 [46 favorites]
I told people my son with a lisp really liked trucks.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 7:59 AM on February 26, 2019 [18 favorites]
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 7:59 AM on February 26, 2019 [18 favorites]
To be fair tho it was an asshole thing to do.
posted by Dressed to Kill at 8:02 AM on February 26, 2019 [13 favorites]
posted by Dressed to Kill at 8:02 AM on February 26, 2019 [13 favorites]
Mother of the year over here...No matter what you do, how perfect you try to be, they'll find a way to turn it against you.
roystgnr_2.0, age 2: "Mommy, you need to nap. Cat and monkey will watch me. Are you listening to me? I will be upset if you're not listening to me!"
posted by roystgnr at 8:02 AM on February 26, 2019 [16 favorites]
Not cursing per se, but my ex's nephew at about age 6 was describing a dream he had about a stuffed animal, which was rolling from his head to his feet, which he described as the animal "going down on him." Much mirth was stifled.
posted by wellred at 8:06 AM on February 26, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by wellred at 8:06 AM on February 26, 2019 [6 favorites]
I let my 11 year old curse in English only when appropriate, and he asks for permission before saying 'fuck' or 'shit'. It's really cute.
We don't let him curse in Spanish, mostly, even though we do it in front of him, because if he gets into the habit he'd get into trouble at school. I mean, he can say 'mierda', 'huevón' and stuff like that, because we're Chileans and how can you expect us not to. I do not let him use curse words in anger at us though.
I have tried to explain to him that you should limit when and where you use curse words because if you use them to much they lose their power. We both like to use 'curse word' as a curse word, though.
posted by signal at 8:06 AM on February 26, 2019 [20 favorites]
We don't let him curse in Spanish, mostly, even though we do it in front of him, because if he gets into the habit he'd get into trouble at school. I mean, he can say 'mierda', 'huevón' and stuff like that, because we're Chileans and how can you expect us not to. I do not let him use curse words in anger at us though.
I have tried to explain to him that you should limit when and where you use curse words because if you use them to much they lose their power. We both like to use 'curse word' as a curse word, though.
posted by signal at 8:06 AM on February 26, 2019 [20 favorites]
I have told this story on MeFi more than once, but this seems like a good time to repeat it.
When my now-17-year-old daughter was about 4, I was driving her to day care one morning, and I was frustrated by the traffic and said (no, really) "Goldang it!"
From the backseat, my small child piped up and said "Daddy, what does goldang it mean?"
I replied "It's something you say when you're annoyed about something."
She responded, "Oh, you mean like motherfucker."
posted by briank at 8:11 AM on February 26, 2019 [208 favorites]
When my now-17-year-old daughter was about 4, I was driving her to day care one morning, and I was frustrated by the traffic and said (no, really) "Goldang it!"
From the backseat, my small child piped up and said "Daddy, what does goldang it mean?"
I replied "It's something you say when you're annoyed about something."
She responded, "Oh, you mean like motherfucker."
posted by briank at 8:11 AM on February 26, 2019 [208 favorites]
As the prude of my household, when others start potty-mouthing I now reply with "You cussing with me?" which often helps defuse the situation as the whole gwint family starts re-enacting Fantastic Mr. Fox scenes.
posted by gwint at 8:28 AM on February 26, 2019 [13 favorites]
posted by gwint at 8:28 AM on February 26, 2019 [13 favorites]
I knew my now 8 year old niece had probably absorbed too much of my and her mother's joint worldweariness a few years back, when her younger brother was having a tremendous conniption fit and she rolled her eyes and muttered under her breath in a tone befitting the most exhausted office manager you've ever met, "Jesus CHRIST, Henry, get your shit together."
I love her so much.
posted by palomar at 8:28 AM on February 26, 2019 [118 favorites]
I love her so much.
posted by palomar at 8:28 AM on February 26, 2019 [118 favorites]
I find 4-year olds to be the most interesting people. In fact, I’m 100% anti-reality tv, but I would absolutely watch one that just followed 4-year olds around getting their take on everyone and everything that crossed their paths.
I'm down with that.
posted by waving at 8:31 AM on February 26, 2019 [22 favorites]
I'm down with that.
posted by waving at 8:31 AM on February 26, 2019 [22 favorites]
Okay, here is a question:
When I was growing up, back in the eighties in a lower middle class midwestern suburb, my impression was that adults cursed less freely in front of children, that young children really didn't randomly curse because they heard far less cursing and that kids started using "bad" language later, in secret, and it was strongly discouraged by adults. Like, the onset of "bad" language seemed to be mid-grade-school. I don't remember hearing kids my age curse when I was under about eight and I don't remember hearing littler kids, either.
Was this just an artifact of my weird upbringing?
Now, today, I spend a lot of time around little kids who swear a blue streak, and I'd always assumed, based on familiarity with the parents, that the ur source is pop music rather than parental cursing. At least, the parents in question don't seem to swear a lot but I do hear a lot of fairly explicit and curse-y pop music at their houses. (Something that wasn't widely available when I was a kid, never mind played around children.)
posted by Frowner at 8:31 AM on February 26, 2019 [6 favorites]
When I was growing up, back in the eighties in a lower middle class midwestern suburb, my impression was that adults cursed less freely in front of children, that young children really didn't randomly curse because they heard far less cursing and that kids started using "bad" language later, in secret, and it was strongly discouraged by adults. Like, the onset of "bad" language seemed to be mid-grade-school. I don't remember hearing kids my age curse when I was under about eight and I don't remember hearing littler kids, either.
Was this just an artifact of my weird upbringing?
Now, today, I spend a lot of time around little kids who swear a blue streak, and I'd always assumed, based on familiarity with the parents, that the ur source is pop music rather than parental cursing. At least, the parents in question don't seem to swear a lot but I do hear a lot of fairly explicit and curse-y pop music at their houses. (Something that wasn't widely available when I was a kid, never mind played around children.)
posted by Frowner at 8:31 AM on February 26, 2019 [6 favorites]
There was a tornado in our town when our daughter was two (small tornado, this is MA after all) and as we drove past the damage the next day I said “holy shhh... ugar!” and from the back seat my girl goes, talking to me like I’m stupid, “no mama, holy SHIT”
So yeah.
posted by lydhre at 8:38 AM on February 26, 2019 [30 favorites]
So yeah.
posted by lydhre at 8:38 AM on February 26, 2019 [30 favorites]
Tots are sponges and mirrors, absorbing all the sounds around them, and and they show us reflections of ourselves.
Just before our first was born, I went to a "daddy boot camp" class put on by the hospital. One of the guys running it was trying to get across that kids are adaptable, and you shouldn't keep them in blackout dark rooms for naps in case you need to them to nap somewhere brighter. The story went that a friend of his had done exactly that and then was trying to get their toddler to stay sleep in the car, and the kid said something like "turn that fucking lamp off!" Referring to the sun.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 8:38 AM on February 26, 2019 [23 favorites]
Just before our first was born, I went to a "daddy boot camp" class put on by the hospital. One of the guys running it was trying to get across that kids are adaptable, and you shouldn't keep them in blackout dark rooms for naps in case you need to them to nap somewhere brighter. The story went that a friend of his had done exactly that and then was trying to get their toddler to stay sleep in the car, and the kid said something like "turn that fucking lamp off!" Referring to the sun.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 8:38 AM on February 26, 2019 [23 favorites]
My elder daughter was about 8 when she told me, in all seriousness, that she knew all the curse words, "even the one that rhymes with 'duck'."
To this day, I have no idea how I managed not to reply, "You're going to have to be more specific."
posted by Etrigan at 8:39 AM on February 26, 2019 [24 favorites]
To this day, I have no idea how I managed not to reply, "You're going to have to be more specific."
posted by Etrigan at 8:39 AM on February 26, 2019 [24 favorites]
Was this just an artifact of my weird upbringing?
Not really. I spend lots of time around young children and the vast majority don't randomly curse. Even if they know the curse words (who knows?) they also know not to say them in public within earshot of adults.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:41 AM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
Not really. I spend lots of time around young children and the vast majority don't randomly curse. Even if they know the curse words (who knows?) they also know not to say them in public within earshot of adults.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:41 AM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
Was this just an artifact of my weird upbringing?
I suspect your upbringing wasn't "weird" (at least not in that particular respect...), and parental swearing varies widely between families and generations.
We swore somewhat in front of our son when he was young, and just explained that those were "special" words that he could say only after he had heard other adults in the room say them. That way he only cursed in front of people who weren't likely to get offended or judge-y.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:43 AM on February 26, 2019 [4 favorites]
I suspect your upbringing wasn't "weird" (at least not in that particular respect...), and parental swearing varies widely between families and generations.
We swore somewhat in front of our son when he was young, and just explained that those were "special" words that he could say only after he had heard other adults in the room say them. That way he only cursed in front of people who weren't likely to get offended or judge-y.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:43 AM on February 26, 2019 [4 favorites]
My kid's guideline of "remain silent around adults at all times" seems to hold true with cursing as well.
posted by emjaybee at 8:46 AM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by emjaybee at 8:46 AM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
I'm a big believer in teaching my children proper grammar and having good manners. Please and thank you, treat others respect and to listen to and respect adults in the family and teachers at school. I believe that treating each others with respect can make society a good place. I never approved of my young children swearing but I looked past when they were older as long as it was appropriate.
My best friend is the opposite and lets his boys use what ever language they wish. I don't think he is wrong, he just made a different parenting choice than me.
posted by ShakeyJake at 8:48 AM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
My best friend is the opposite and lets his boys use what ever language they wish. I don't think he is wrong, he just made a different parenting choice than me.
posted by ShakeyJake at 8:48 AM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
I don't know how Typechip isn't cursing yet (he's 5), I and Techno both slip often enough that he's heard the full range of words we'd prefer he not use. I say "What the actual unholy fuck." enough that I really really don't know how this kid isn't saying it.
On the other hand, he can't say the x sound very well, and it comes out more of a k sound. So at age 2, in front of my Very Catholic Very Elementary School Mom (who to her credit laughed her fool head off) - at the zoo, delighted by the Fennic Foxes, he shouts "MOMMY WAWA A FOX A FOX LOOK AT THIS FOX"
He also can't say L very well which means he often just eliminates it, and we live right near a clock tower and preschool is doing size words. "That's a big clock tower. It's a huge clock tower. Look at that big big clock tower, mommy."
posted by FritoKAL at 8:52 AM on February 26, 2019 [20 favorites]
On the other hand, he can't say the x sound very well, and it comes out more of a k sound. So at age 2, in front of my Very Catholic Very Elementary School Mom (who to her credit laughed her fool head off) - at the zoo, delighted by the Fennic Foxes, he shouts "MOMMY WAWA A FOX A FOX LOOK AT THIS FOX"
He also can't say L very well which means he often just eliminates it, and we live right near a clock tower and preschool is doing size words. "That's a big clock tower. It's a huge clock tower. Look at that big big clock tower, mommy."
posted by FritoKAL at 8:52 AM on February 26, 2019 [20 favorites]
Oh, wow. Kids today really are getting serious about early job training. I don't know if we'll really need that many people to review things online in the future, but, heck, it's still good to see they have high aspirations!
posted by gusottertrout at 9:04 AM on February 26, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by gusottertrout at 9:04 AM on February 26, 2019 [4 favorites]
By kindergarten my son was able to use "Jesus Christ" and "Well, shit" correctly and clearly.
posted by 80 Cats in a Dog Suit at 9:18 AM on February 26, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by 80 Cats in a Dog Suit at 9:18 AM on February 26, 2019 [6 favorites]
Stubbed my toe, hard, last week. Started to yell the "F" word, but managed to stick to the first letter for maybe five seconds. My five-year-old daughter, watching me struggle, shouted "FUCK!" to fill in my blank. All I could do was thank her for helping. She smiled with pride, but then frowned and told me, "But that's a bad word, so you shouldn't say it."
posted by kawika at 9:24 AM on February 26, 2019 [95 favorites]
posted by kawika at 9:24 AM on February 26, 2019 [95 favorites]
He also can't say L very well which means he often just eliminates it, and we live right near a clock tower and preschool is doing size words. "That's a big clock tower. It's a huge clock tower. Look at that big big clock tower, mommy."
Cue comedian Jo Koy talking about his son's love for Thomas the Tank Engine's friend Percy, and his inability to pronounce Percy's name correctly.
posted by hanov3r at 9:26 AM on February 26, 2019 [5 favorites]
Cue comedian Jo Koy talking about his son's love for Thomas the Tank Engine's friend Percy, and his inability to pronounce Percy's name correctly.
posted by hanov3r at 9:26 AM on February 26, 2019 [5 favorites]
Mom I want an iphone! Then I could call you.
Why? I‘m standing right here, just talk to me.
No, but when I‘m at a playdate, I could call you.
And what would you say?
You‘re an idiot!
THE END
posted by The Toad at 9:26 AM on February 26, 2019 [9 favorites]
Why? I‘m standing right here, just talk to me.
No, but when I‘m at a playdate, I could call you.
And what would you say?
You‘re an idiot!
THE END
posted by The Toad at 9:26 AM on February 26, 2019 [9 favorites]
My little nephew once looked at me and said "I'll tell you what, I may have fucked my life up flatter than hammered shit, but I stand here before you today beholden to no human cocksucker, and working a paying fucking gold claim."
posted by thelonius at 9:27 AM on February 26, 2019 [42 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 9:27 AM on February 26, 2019 [42 favorites]
My memory if childhood was constantly panderinging to the precious fantasies of adults. I was expected to be their image of innocence and purity, pretending I was playful when I felt sad; hiding any interest in sexuality, death, or profanity when adults were present.
I wonder how immersion in the internet changes these dynamics.
posted by idiopath at 9:37 AM on February 26, 2019 [3 favorites]
I wonder how immersion in the internet changes these dynamics.
posted by idiopath at 9:37 AM on February 26, 2019 [3 favorites]
Uh.
I have a cold, work is weird, and now my ex-boyfriend is going viral.
2019 is strange.
I think I'm going back to bed.
posted by Adridne at 9:45 AM on February 26, 2019 [26 favorites]
I have a cold, work is weird, and now my ex-boyfriend is going viral.
2019 is strange.
I think I'm going back to bed.
posted by Adridne at 9:45 AM on February 26, 2019 [26 favorites]
Frowner: "When I was growing up, back in the eighties in a lower middle class midwestern suburb, my impression was that adults cursed less freely in front of children, that young children really didn't randomly curse because they heard far less cursing and that kids started using "bad" language later, in secret, and it was strongly discouraged by adults. Like, the onset of "bad" language seemed to be mid-grade-school. I don't remember hearing kids my age curse when I was under about eight and I don't remember hearing littler kids, either."
Same. I vividly remember starting sixth grade - that would have been fall of '84 - and hearing people swear for the first time. I don't think I'd ever really heard anyone do it - my mom and her family did not swear at all, and she was pretty conservative about what movies I could see.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:57 AM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
Same. I vividly remember starting sixth grade - that would have been fall of '84 - and hearing people swear for the first time. I don't think I'd ever really heard anyone do it - my mom and her family did not swear at all, and she was pretty conservative about what movies I could see.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:57 AM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
When I was a kid my friends and I were playing pickle (a baseball baserunning game where you have two bases and run back and forth while two fielders throw the ball back and try and tag you out). The game degenerated when we started throwing the ball at the runner because we were mean rotten and evil kids and also it was funny. We ended up in a wrestling dog pile and I ended up on the bottom and was swearing up a blue streak. I see two pairs of feet walk by on the sidewalk. It was my parents.
Mom" "Wherever did you learn to swear like that?"
Me: "From you, when you watch Hockey on TV"
Mom: "Oh."
posted by srboisvert at 10:03 AM on February 26, 2019 [8 favorites]
Mom" "Wherever did you learn to swear like that?"
Me: "From you, when you watch Hockey on TV"
Mom: "Oh."
posted by srboisvert at 10:03 AM on February 26, 2019 [8 favorites]
One Sunday morning, my two-year-old shouted "GOD!" out of nowhere. He paused just long enough for me to wonder if we were going to be discussing theology before following up with "My hair is a mess!"
posted by eruonna at 10:04 AM on February 26, 2019 [15 favorites]
posted by eruonna at 10:04 AM on February 26, 2019 [15 favorites]
A few weeks ago, my computer kept crashing over and over again, and I yelled out "Fuck you computer". My two year old was playing nearby (thought she was upstairs with her dad). She ran upstairs to get my husband, shouting "Help, Mommy fuck computer, Mommy fuck computer". I managed to convince her after a while that it was "Frog computer" so now we say that instead. As well as "Mommy shark bleep bleep bleep bleep bleep".
posted by recklessbrother at 10:10 AM on February 26, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by recklessbrother at 10:10 AM on February 26, 2019 [3 favorites]
My mother likes to tell the story of how when I was not yet two years old, we were visiting my older brother's kindergarten teacher at her home (it was a small town) and I dropped a deck of cards and said perfectly clearly "Goddamnit, now I have to pick them all up!" Apparently the kindergarten teacher was simultaneously impressed by my speaking skills and bothered by my vocabulary.
Also, after my Dad had a breakdown in his pickup truck, my brother spent several weeks using his ride-on tonka truck to play a game called "Son of a bitch, this truck won't go."
The funny thing is, I later swore much less than my other friends. I remember my BFF in elementary school using the F-word in front of her mother, and I was just horrified. I couldn't believe she would do that and not get yelled at for it. I'm not sure if I was more mad at her for doing it or her mother for not yelling at her.
Now I swear like a fucking sailor.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:24 AM on February 26, 2019 [9 favorites]
Also, after my Dad had a breakdown in his pickup truck, my brother spent several weeks using his ride-on tonka truck to play a game called "Son of a bitch, this truck won't go."
The funny thing is, I later swore much less than my other friends. I remember my BFF in elementary school using the F-word in front of her mother, and I was just horrified. I couldn't believe she would do that and not get yelled at for it. I'm not sure if I was more mad at her for doing it or her mother for not yelling at her.
Now I swear like a fucking sailor.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:24 AM on February 26, 2019 [9 favorites]
Is secularization an elephant in the room here? Isn't the taboo about "cursing" derived via generations of cultural telephone games from the taboo against taking the Lord's name in vain and "swearing" false oaths? Surely that loses much of its meaning outside a religious context.
posted by idiopath at 10:33 AM on February 26, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by idiopath at 10:33 AM on February 26, 2019 [7 favorites]
Or was cursing / swearing merely euphemism for scatology which is so prohibited you wouldn't even name it?
posted by idiopath at 10:35 AM on February 26, 2019
posted by idiopath at 10:35 AM on February 26, 2019
Fuck no.
posted by Etrigan at 10:35 AM on February 26, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 10:35 AM on February 26, 2019 [4 favorites]
My daughter was 2 1/2 when we were potty training her and I found myself in a public restroom with her as she tried to pull up her underwear and pants, and was having trouble, and loudly said "oh for fuck's sake!"
I mean... yay that she used it right? But also, oh god the shame
posted by olinerd at 10:37 AM on February 26, 2019 [11 favorites]
I mean... yay that she used it right? But also, oh god the shame
posted by olinerd at 10:37 AM on February 26, 2019 [11 favorites]
Also - I grew up the daughter of two parents who served in the military who cursed regularly (no f-bombs in front of us kids though) and while they cursed regularly, they made it very clear that it was totally unacceptable for us to do so - Midwestern WASPy values you know - and they literally washed my brother's mouth out with soap when he decided to test that particular policy. It wasn't until I was a teenager and was around people who were less goody-two-shoes than I was that I started to let my fucks fly. (Then I became an engineer and now I swear like a sailor, which makes it especially hilarious when well-meaning older men in my industry apologize to me for swearing in front of me)
posted by olinerd at 10:41 AM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by olinerd at 10:41 AM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
They're laughing at her like a toddler that's been taught to swear.
posted by East14thTaco at 10:45 AM on February 26, 2019
posted by East14thTaco at 10:45 AM on February 26, 2019
Also I wish c***s***** wasn't so egregiously homophobic and misogynistic (funny how those go togetherl) because it's got all the hallmarks of great cuss. All hard consonants that are made for spitting.
I still know a phone is broken in when it learns motherfucker.
posted by East14thTaco at 10:55 AM on February 26, 2019 [6 favorites]
I still know a phone is broken in when it learns motherfucker.
posted by East14thTaco at 10:55 AM on February 26, 2019 [6 favorites]
For the purposes of this story, you need to know that coglione is vulgar slang for testicle as well as a secondary vulgar meaning of ‘fucking idiot’ (Plural Coglioni)
I have managed to curb my sailor mouth in front of my kids, except driving. And as an American driving in Italy, my 6 yo is constantly piping up from the back with “Mama, that’s a bad word.”
One afternoon after I’ve picked her and her sister up from school, we walk into our neighborhood coffee bar to meet up with Mr. Romakimmy. And my 6 yo immediately tattles to him as well as the entire bar, “Papa, Mama said coglione! She said two coglioni!”
I’m beet red, hubs and the entire bar is in hysterics, and the 6 yo is confused AF since she meant I said it twice.
posted by romakimmy at 11:28 AM on February 26, 2019 [10 favorites]
I have managed to curb my sailor mouth in front of my kids, except driving. And as an American driving in Italy, my 6 yo is constantly piping up from the back with “Mama, that’s a bad word.”
One afternoon after I’ve picked her and her sister up from school, we walk into our neighborhood coffee bar to meet up with Mr. Romakimmy. And my 6 yo immediately tattles to him as well as the entire bar, “Papa, Mama said coglione! She said two coglioni!”
I’m beet red, hubs and the entire bar is in hysterics, and the 6 yo is confused AF since she meant I said it twice.
posted by romakimmy at 11:28 AM on February 26, 2019 [10 favorites]
As a Dutchman I learned English form 1940s literature, BBC costume dramas, Hollywood movies.
And metafilter.
And I noticed how on metafilter 'fucking' has a special role as a modifier.
It means something like 'heartfelt', 'real world', 'telling it like it is'.
The word doesn't resonate emotionally like that for me. So my understanding can only be on the 'anthropologist from Mars' level. Approaching meaning by circumscribing.
posted by jouke at 11:28 AM on February 26, 2019 [12 favorites]
And metafilter.
And I noticed how on metafilter 'fucking' has a special role as a modifier.
It means something like 'heartfelt', 'real world', 'telling it like it is'.
The word doesn't resonate emotionally like that for me. So my understanding can only be on the 'anthropologist from Mars' level. Approaching meaning by circumscribing.
posted by jouke at 11:28 AM on February 26, 2019 [12 favorites]
...she knew all the curse words, "even the one that rhymes with 'duck'."
Not a child swearing story but when I was in my 30s, I had a supervisor in his 40s who swore a lot, and was instructed by his superiors to "cut it out", so he changed his 'fucks' to either "duck"or a repeated "quack quack quack". He was quickly christened the Office Duck and he turned it around to Grand Duck and the small subdepartment he supervised as The Duck Pond. Each of us in the Pond got a Duck Name: as his direct assistant, I was Duck Wingman, others were Dazzle Duck, Dapper Duck, Danger Duck and a college intern who played basketball... Slam Duck. It was a ducky place to work.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:37 AM on February 26, 2019 [24 favorites]
Not a child swearing story but when I was in my 30s, I had a supervisor in his 40s who swore a lot, and was instructed by his superiors to "cut it out", so he changed his 'fucks' to either "duck"or a repeated "quack quack quack". He was quickly christened the Office Duck and he turned it around to Grand Duck and the small subdepartment he supervised as The Duck Pond. Each of us in the Pond got a Duck Name: as his direct assistant, I was Duck Wingman, others were Dazzle Duck, Dapper Duck, Danger Duck and a college intern who played basketball... Slam Duck. It was a ducky place to work.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:37 AM on February 26, 2019 [24 favorites]
According to family lore, my first full sentence was, "Damint mom, you make me so mad!"
posted by sjswitzer at 11:38 AM on February 26, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by sjswitzer at 11:38 AM on February 26, 2019 [2 favorites]
Also using ** in an expletive struck me as a Dutchman as victorian.
But then again I can only intuït how the Dutch 'kut', which is as acceptible as 'lul' I'd say, is completely unacceptable to spell out on metafilter in its English equivalent.
As with the Victorian practice at first it seems strange that the **s do not obscure the word at all. What's the point?
I guess it must be something to do with signalling; I'm referring to this word, but I'm not subscribing to all it's socio-emotional meanings. I'm using it very much between quotes.
posted by jouke at 11:40 AM on February 26, 2019 [4 favorites]
But then again I can only intuït how the Dutch 'kut', which is as acceptible as 'lul' I'd say, is completely unacceptable to spell out on metafilter in its English equivalent.
As with the Victorian practice at first it seems strange that the **s do not obscure the word at all. What's the point?
I guess it must be something to do with signalling; I'm referring to this word, but I'm not subscribing to all it's socio-emotional meanings. I'm using it very much between quotes.
posted by jouke at 11:40 AM on February 26, 2019 [4 favorites]
And I noticed how on metafilter 'fucking' has a special role as a modifier.
I think the word might be "intensifier" or "emphasizer", and the use of "fucking" in that sense is common in English, not just on Metafilter. Similar works would be "damn" (or "damned"), "bloody" "freaking", "darn".... In case that helps.
(It's probably obvious, but I'm not a linguist; just a native English speaker)
posted by Greg_Ace at 11:40 AM on February 26, 2019
I think the word might be "intensifier" or "emphasizer", and the use of "fucking" in that sense is common in English, not just on Metafilter. Similar works would be "damn" (or "damned"), "bloody" "freaking", "darn".... In case that helps.
(It's probably obvious, but I'm not a linguist; just a native English speaker)
posted by Greg_Ace at 11:40 AM on February 26, 2019
Mom I want an iphone! Then I could call you.
Why? I‘m standing right here, just talk to me.
No, but when I‘m at a playdate, I could call you.
And what would you say?
You‘re an idiot!
How do you respond to that? If I had called my parent an idiot, directly or by implication, I would have been in serious, serious trouble. In fact, I remember that kind of trouble happening - once.
Lately I am around children between about 4 and 10 a lot more than in the past, and the thing I can't get over is how rude they're allowed to be to their parents, or at least that's how it seems to me. One kid tells her mother that her mother's new haircut is ugly and doubles down when told that isn't very nice, for instance. Another says that every home cooked meal is "disgusting". These aren't awful children and I don't think they're all growing up to become insurance executives or bankers or mass shooters or anything, but I really have a lot of trouble processing it when I hear it. I'm not going to say anything because they're not my kids,but it really, really shocks me and I dislike hearing it.
It seems like Gen X/Old Millenial parents are way, way more relaxed about this than my parents were and I wonder - does it bother you? Do you ever get mad when your kids insult you? Is it about avoiding power struggles in the interests of the long term?
I'm not a parent, I'm not going to interfere with anyone's parenting and I assume that Kids Today are going to grow up, on balance, just fine whether they're cursing and insulting people or not....it's just so, so different that it's kind of a culture shock thing for me.
posted by Frowner at 11:44 AM on February 26, 2019 [8 favorites]
Why? I‘m standing right here, just talk to me.
No, but when I‘m at a playdate, I could call you.
And what would you say?
You‘re an idiot!
How do you respond to that? If I had called my parent an idiot, directly or by implication, I would have been in serious, serious trouble. In fact, I remember that kind of trouble happening - once.
Lately I am around children between about 4 and 10 a lot more than in the past, and the thing I can't get over is how rude they're allowed to be to their parents, or at least that's how it seems to me. One kid tells her mother that her mother's new haircut is ugly and doubles down when told that isn't very nice, for instance. Another says that every home cooked meal is "disgusting". These aren't awful children and I don't think they're all growing up to become insurance executives or bankers or mass shooters or anything, but I really have a lot of trouble processing it when I hear it. I'm not going to say anything because they're not my kids,but it really, really shocks me and I dislike hearing it.
It seems like Gen X/Old Millenial parents are way, way more relaxed about this than my parents were and I wonder - does it bother you? Do you ever get mad when your kids insult you? Is it about avoiding power struggles in the interests of the long term?
I'm not a parent, I'm not going to interfere with anyone's parenting and I assume that Kids Today are going to grow up, on balance, just fine whether they're cursing and insulting people or not....it's just so, so different that it's kind of a culture shock thing for me.
posted by Frowner at 11:44 AM on February 26, 2019 [8 favorites]
I didn't grow up around a lot of swearing; the first time I remember, not just myself, but anyone swearing, was when I yelled out, "Shitty, shitty, shitty!" when I was about five, for reasons that I can't remember, and I have no idea where I got the word from. Probably one of the reasons why I remember that occasion so well was that my mom, rest her soul, washed my mouth out with soap. I was still pretty well ensconced in a non-swearing environment to the degree that, a few years later, when I became friends with someone whose family employed a considerably saltier vocabulary than mine, I heard what his mom was saying as "bowl of shit", and wondered (through my scandalization) why the shit was in a bowl. At some point, I heard the word fuck, but I didn't know what it meant (or, for that matter, exactly how babies were conceived) until a classmate explained its meaning in a dirty joke when I was ten. (Time: late sixties/mid seventies.)
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:46 AM on February 26, 2019
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:46 AM on February 26, 2019
Yeah, I know about "damned" etc. But I noticed there's an emotive quality on metafilter, (or: in the US?), that other "intensifier" don't have.
There's a saying "the fish doesn't know the water". Similarly a native speaker doesn't realise some the socïolinguistical mores she adheres to.
posted by jouke at 11:47 AM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
There's a saying "the fish doesn't know the water". Similarly a native speaker doesn't realise some the socïolinguistical mores she adheres to.
posted by jouke at 11:47 AM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
Came in for this fuckin smurf movie; wasn't disappointed.
posted by howfar at 11:53 AM on February 26, 2019
posted by howfar at 11:53 AM on February 26, 2019
Now I swear like a fucking sailor. That may be strong enough for you, but, I swear like a sailor who isn't getting any.
posted by Oyéah at 12:02 PM on February 26, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 12:02 PM on February 26, 2019 [5 favorites]
Similarly a native speaker doesn't realise some the socïolinguistical mores she adheres to.
I think I may be misunderstanding your point, and if so I apologize. But in the hope of clarifying my previous comment I'll add that in the US at least, "fucking" is considered one of the stronger swear words and isn't used in what's usually referred to as "polite company". So for the most part it does have more weight and intensity than the other words I mentioned. However there are people who use it so casually that it might as well be the same as "damned", and it's possible that more people use it that way online than in person.
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:05 PM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
I think I may be misunderstanding your point, and if so I apologize. But in the hope of clarifying my previous comment I'll add that in the US at least, "fucking" is considered one of the stronger swear words and isn't used in what's usually referred to as "polite company". So for the most part it does have more weight and intensity than the other words I mentioned. However there are people who use it so casually that it might as well be the same as "damned", and it's possible that more people use it that way online than in person.
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:05 PM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
In Quebec it is OK to say fuck on the radio.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:09 PM on February 26, 2019
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:09 PM on February 26, 2019
(again, I'm not a linguist so I could be, er, fucking up the explanation...)
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:09 PM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:09 PM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
I AM SO RELIEVED to have somewhere to tell this story that happened JUST THIS VERY MORNING. Stick with it.
6yo daughter is super excited to start basketball in a few weeks.
Her: ...and we’re gonna win every game and all the n****** on the other team are gonna lose.
Me&mom in horrified confusion:.....what?
Her: all those n****** are gonna lose!
Me&mom: all those who?
Her: n******!
Mom: look at me. Say that again and let me watch your mouth.
Her: n*****. N*****.
Baffled pause.
Mom:......NITWITS! OMG. Look at me, say ni-T-wits. NiTwits. Say it.
It took some tries but I think we got it corrected. I guess we’ll hear about it if not...
posted by 2or3whiskeysodas at 12:18 PM on February 26, 2019 [9 favorites]
6yo daughter is super excited to start basketball in a few weeks.
Her: ...and we’re gonna win every game and all the n****** on the other team are gonna lose.
Me&mom in horrified confusion:.....what?
Her: all those n****** are gonna lose!
Me&mom: all those who?
Her: n******!
Mom: look at me. Say that again and let me watch your mouth.
Her: n*****. N*****.
Baffled pause.
Mom:......NITWITS! OMG. Look at me, say ni-T-wits. NiTwits. Say it.
It took some tries but I think we got it corrected. I guess we’ll hear about it if not...
posted by 2or3whiskeysodas at 12:18 PM on February 26, 2019 [9 favorites]
Thanks to another thread here I am reading The Annotated Huckleberry Finn. In the intro they tell that Twain’s wife edited his books to clean up the language. And some of the content. But thanks to the commentary to the series Deadwood I know that in the 1800’s swearing was religious in nature and not how we swear today. What I can’t find is a good example of 19th century swearing. I guess they didn’t print that stuff. Anyone know of any examples?
posted by njohnson23 at 1:01 PM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by njohnson23 at 1:01 PM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
When I was three or four, my folks took me to see Follow That Bird in the theatre. I think it was my first movie.
If you haven't seen it, the antagonist of the film is Miss Finch.
However, I misheard it, and at a certain point in the movie I declared, loudly, "I hate Miss Bitch! When they called her Miss Bitch they were right because she's a bitch!"
They quietly explained that, no, it was "Miss Finch" and also we shouldn't talk in movies, let alone swear loudly at them.
posted by Rev. Syung Myung Me at 1:04 PM on February 26, 2019 [10 favorites]
If you haven't seen it, the antagonist of the film is Miss Finch.
However, I misheard it, and at a certain point in the movie I declared, loudly, "I hate Miss Bitch! When they called her Miss Bitch they were right because she's a bitch!"
They quietly explained that, no, it was "Miss Finch" and also we shouldn't talk in movies, let alone swear loudly at them.
posted by Rev. Syung Myung Me at 1:04 PM on February 26, 2019 [10 favorites]
It seems like Gen X/Old Millenial parents are way, way more relaxed about this than my parents were and I wonder - does it bother you? Do you ever get mad when your kids insult you? Is it about avoiding power struggles in the interests of the long term?
As Gen X parents, we were way more relaxed about some things than our parents were. Swearing, for example. I curse and I tried to stop but in the end I didn't think it was a battle worth fighting. My kids swear now, appropriately in my opinion. Also: hair color/style, clothes, choices of music, etc. I was ruled by an authoritarian household and it was the worst.
However, insulting me? FUCK. NO. Basic common decency was/is the mantra of our parenting. I don't remember my kids ever insulting me, though. They also never told us they hated us. And they had *some* typical tween/teenager stuff but by and large, my kids were (and are) delightful to be around. And they weren't pretending. We treated them like *people* first and our kids second, and I honestly think that makes all the difference. I remember being mostly an accessory of my parents and I vowed I would not do that to my children.
And I cannot abide parents who take the short view vs. the long view. You think those kids who say those things to their parents aren't going to say the same things to their friends/partners/co-workers? I bet they will. And worse.
But swearing in general? Doesn't fucking bother me one bit.
posted by cooker girl at 1:12 PM on February 26, 2019 [13 favorites]
As Gen X parents, we were way more relaxed about some things than our parents were. Swearing, for example. I curse and I tried to stop but in the end I didn't think it was a battle worth fighting. My kids swear now, appropriately in my opinion. Also: hair color/style, clothes, choices of music, etc. I was ruled by an authoritarian household and it was the worst.
However, insulting me? FUCK. NO. Basic common decency was/is the mantra of our parenting. I don't remember my kids ever insulting me, though. They also never told us they hated us. And they had *some* typical tween/teenager stuff but by and large, my kids were (and are) delightful to be around. And they weren't pretending. We treated them like *people* first and our kids second, and I honestly think that makes all the difference. I remember being mostly an accessory of my parents and I vowed I would not do that to my children.
And I cannot abide parents who take the short view vs. the long view. You think those kids who say those things to their parents aren't going to say the same things to their friends/partners/co-workers? I bet they will. And worse.
But swearing in general? Doesn't fucking bother me one bit.
posted by cooker girl at 1:12 PM on February 26, 2019 [13 favorites]
"When I was growing up, back in the eighties in a lower middle class midwestern suburb, my impression was that adults cursed less freely in front of children...”
That’s because that generation was concerned with upward mobility and the promise of propriety and manners was that you would fit in with the refined upper classes once you got there. My generation knows that that was a fucking lie.
I was zoning out on some road rage while driving when my kid was about 3 or 4. From the back seat after a moment of quiet, “Mama, what’s a fucking signal?”
We talk a bit about cursing and why adults (especially grandmas) don’t want to hear it from kids. I explained that sometimes saying a really bad word keeps you from hitting a wall. It’s not a good idea to hit a wall and sometimes bad words help.
A few months ago, my 7-year-old as we were driving home said, “for some reason, I really want to say a bad word. I said, “go for it.” She said one ‘fuck.’ It was pretty hilarious.
posted by amanda at 1:13 PM on February 26, 2019 [20 favorites]
That’s because that generation was concerned with upward mobility and the promise of propriety and manners was that you would fit in with the refined upper classes once you got there. My generation knows that that was a fucking lie.
I was zoning out on some road rage while driving when my kid was about 3 or 4. From the back seat after a moment of quiet, “Mama, what’s a fucking signal?”
We talk a bit about cursing and why adults (especially grandmas) don’t want to hear it from kids. I explained that sometimes saying a really bad word keeps you from hitting a wall. It’s not a good idea to hit a wall and sometimes bad words help.
A few months ago, my 7-year-old as we were driving home said, “for some reason, I really want to say a bad word. I said, “go for it.” She said one ‘fuck.’ It was pretty hilarious.
posted by amanda at 1:13 PM on February 26, 2019 [20 favorites]
Once, long ago, in a galaxy far far away (Baltimore in the early 90s) I was strapping my probably 20 month old son into his car seat after a long day of day care. "Son," I said, "I'm so sorry, but Mama forgot to bring your cookie today. I just was running late and I forgot. But tomorrow I promise there will be a cookie."
Son: No. . . no cookie?
Me: No sweetie, not today, I'm sorry.
Son: You. . you. . . ASSHOLE!
And even before that, in Charleston SC in the mid 80s, his then 2 and a half year old sister was sitting under a table at my parents' house with one of those little fisher price workbench toys, where you try to hammer the right sized "nail" into the hole with a tiny hammer. She was having trouble, you could tell by the way she was muttering SHIT, SHIT, SHIT as she hammered. My parents were not amused.
posted by mygothlaundry at 1:13 PM on February 26, 2019 [9 favorites]
Son: No. . . no cookie?
Me: No sweetie, not today, I'm sorry.
Son: You. . you. . . ASSHOLE!
And even before that, in Charleston SC in the mid 80s, his then 2 and a half year old sister was sitting under a table at my parents' house with one of those little fisher price workbench toys, where you try to hammer the right sized "nail" into the hole with a tiny hammer. She was having trouble, you could tell by the way she was muttering SHIT, SHIT, SHIT as she hammered. My parents were not amused.
posted by mygothlaundry at 1:13 PM on February 26, 2019 [9 favorites]
What I can’t find is a good example of 19th century swearing. I guess they didn’t print that stuff. Anyone know of any examples?
I based my undergrad thesis on 19th century US Army documents, so I've got some examples of swearing. There's probably more at my fingertips than I'm remembering, but for now, here are a couple from old court martial cases.
I have one case where a doctor refused to see a patient, saying "Oh, shit! Goddamn it! I don't want to see any more of you!" When his superiors questioned him on this, the doctor basically said "who hasn't used bad language when he was angry?"
Another case, someone was accused of telling the quartermaster his wife was "a dirty whore." He allegedly told that some soldiers that the quartermaster was "good for nothing but to drink whiskey and make a fuss." Actually, now that I'm looking through the case here, it looks like this guy really hated that quartermaster; when some soldiers asked about provisioning supplies, he said "we cannot get them from the depot on account of that dirty blackguard of a quartermaster!" He later allegedly added that the quartermaster was "a damned shitass."
There's undoubtedly more in my files, but I'm still feeling pretty under the weather, so this will have to do for now. I feel like I came across the F word somewhere, but I'm a damned shitass and I can't remember where I saw it.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 1:55 PM on February 26, 2019 [11 favorites]
I based my undergrad thesis on 19th century US Army documents, so I've got some examples of swearing. There's probably more at my fingertips than I'm remembering, but for now, here are a couple from old court martial cases.
I have one case where a doctor refused to see a patient, saying "Oh, shit! Goddamn it! I don't want to see any more of you!" When his superiors questioned him on this, the doctor basically said "who hasn't used bad language when he was angry?"
Another case, someone was accused of telling the quartermaster his wife was "a dirty whore." He allegedly told that some soldiers that the quartermaster was "good for nothing but to drink whiskey and make a fuss." Actually, now that I'm looking through the case here, it looks like this guy really hated that quartermaster; when some soldiers asked about provisioning supplies, he said "we cannot get them from the depot on account of that dirty blackguard of a quartermaster!" He later allegedly added that the quartermaster was "a damned shitass."
There's undoubtedly more in my files, but I'm still feeling pretty under the weather, so this will have to do for now. I feel like I came across the F word somewhere, but I'm a damned shitass and I can't remember where I saw it.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 1:55 PM on February 26, 2019 [11 favorites]
A friend's three-year-old, on being told it was time to go home from a friend's, with great weary resignation:
"oh mummy, I can't be fucked."
posted by ominous_paws at 1:56 PM on February 26, 2019 [7 favorites]
"oh mummy, I can't be fucked."
posted by ominous_paws at 1:56 PM on February 26, 2019 [7 favorites]
My parents were pretty strong about not using bad language (which meant that we learned words like troglodyte instead of idiot from them) and one of the things mom was really adamant about was not teaching our youngest brother to swear (6 years younger). So of course when he started school he came home with some kind of five year old swear words, and when she blamed us we were all offended that she'd think we would have used that.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 1:56 PM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by the agents of KAOS at 1:56 PM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
Also, in keeping with the FPP, legend has it that when I was 2 or 3, I said to my dad, in my cute little lisping toddler voice "Daddy, what's a motherfucker?"
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 1:57 PM on February 26, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 1:57 PM on February 26, 2019 [2 favorites]
How do you respond to that? If I had called my parent an idiot, directly or by implication, I would have been in serious, serious trouble.
It was an obvious joke and we both laughed. When it‘s not meant as a joke, I get mad at her. I get where you‘re coming from, though - my parents would never have allowed such a joke.
The thing is, a couple minutes later, she asked ‚mom, what does ‚idiot‘ mean?‘ and I explained how it‘s a mean word that used to be applied to mentally handicapped people and now we just use it to mean ‚stupid‘ and that it‘s actually really a slur (they are learning about bad words/hate words in school right now!) but that I use it from time to time and have been meaning to find a better term.
Conversations my parents didn‘t have with me, Vol. 5674.
posted by The Toad at 2:35 PM on February 26, 2019 [10 favorites]
I have two stories:
1) My oldest cousin is 6 years older than me, and when he was a toddler, my mother babysat him while her sister went back to work. One day, my father came home from work to find Mom Freedom in the kitchen, preparing dinner, and Cousin Freedom bouncing up and down in the hallway, chanting "Dammit, dammit, dammit, dammit..."
Dad Freedom looked at my mom like, "Are we gonna, like, discipline him or something?" and Mom Freedom responded, with all the weariness of one who had been watching a 4 year old all day, "Don't even look at him. He just wants attention."
2) Our neighbors and close friends have 2 boys, ages 9 and 11. They know swear words, but aren't that great at using them yet. They are also not allowed to swear willy-nilly; if they want to swear, they have to go to the Swear Box (a corner of their kitchen that has been marked off with tape) and do all their swearing there. Neighbor says it is incredibly hilarious to see one of them go to the Swear Box and proclaim "Fuck it right in the shit!!!!"
posted by chainsofreedom at 2:39 PM on February 26, 2019 [13 favorites]
1) My oldest cousin is 6 years older than me, and when he was a toddler, my mother babysat him while her sister went back to work. One day, my father came home from work to find Mom Freedom in the kitchen, preparing dinner, and Cousin Freedom bouncing up and down in the hallway, chanting "Dammit, dammit, dammit, dammit..."
Dad Freedom looked at my mom like, "Are we gonna, like, discipline him or something?" and Mom Freedom responded, with all the weariness of one who had been watching a 4 year old all day, "Don't even look at him. He just wants attention."
2) Our neighbors and close friends have 2 boys, ages 9 and 11. They know swear words, but aren't that great at using them yet. They are also not allowed to swear willy-nilly; if they want to swear, they have to go to the Swear Box (a corner of their kitchen that has been marked off with tape) and do all their swearing there. Neighbor says it is incredibly hilarious to see one of them go to the Swear Box and proclaim "Fuck it right in the shit!!!!"
posted by chainsofreedom at 2:39 PM on February 26, 2019 [13 favorites]
The word doesn't resonate emotionally like that for me. So my understanding can only be on the 'anthropologist from Mars' level. Approaching meaning by circumscribing.
Be careful, circumscription is something metafilter doesn't do well.
posted by srboisvert at 3:33 PM on February 26, 2019 [5 favorites]
Be careful, circumscription is something metafilter doesn't do well.
posted by srboisvert at 3:33 PM on February 26, 2019 [5 favorites]
"a damned shitass"
This brings back memories. I've not heard that swear word ("shitass") in ages but my grandfather, a farmer in southeastern Kansas, used it regularly. He was rural folk and came from rural folk so it's possible that 19th century swearing was what he knew.
posted by sjswitzer at 4:35 PM on February 26, 2019 [2 favorites]
This brings back memories. I've not heard that swear word ("shitass") in ages but my grandfather, a farmer in southeastern Kansas, used it regularly. He was rural folk and came from rural folk so it's possible that 19th century swearing was what he knew.
posted by sjswitzer at 4:35 PM on February 26, 2019 [2 favorites]
My ten-years-younger-than-me and usually sweet little brother came home from his second day at kindergarten [so, 4 years old in 1983] and called my sister and I ‘fucking cunts’ when we were watching ‘Perfect Match’ on our one TV, when he wanted to watch cartoons. In a household where we weren’t even allowed to say ‘shut up’ or ‘stuff it’ or ‘fart’ and our parents were not swearers, it was absolutely shocking.
The only place he could have heard that is from other children, aged 4. We lived on a farm, the town closest had maybe 400 people. How do kids in a rural, fairly isolated setting, no media for example, gather such language from each other and use it contextually, if not from their parents or other adults using that language around them? And ‘fucking cunt’ is such an abusive term that it makes me really sad that a kid or plural kids in his kindy class of only 12 kids had heard that at such a young age.
posted by honey-barbara at 5:32 PM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
The only place he could have heard that is from other children, aged 4. We lived on a farm, the town closest had maybe 400 people. How do kids in a rural, fairly isolated setting, no media for example, gather such language from each other and use it contextually, if not from their parents or other adults using that language around them? And ‘fucking cunt’ is such an abusive term that it makes me really sad that a kid or plural kids in his kindy class of only 12 kids had heard that at such a young age.
posted by honey-barbara at 5:32 PM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
My neighbor and I started walking at night around our neighborhood for exercise. We were passing a yard with a very annoying, barking dog, and we couldn't even hear ourselves talk. So I snapped, at the dog, "Shut up!" and a little girl, playing in the next yard, no more than five years old, replied to me: "Oh, do you know that damned dog?"
As for myself: second son could not make the "TR" sound when he was small, so whenever he saw a truck it became "A FUCK!! Mommy, look! A fuck!"
Trucks all became tractors after that.
posted by annieb at 6:12 PM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
As for myself: second son could not make the "TR" sound when he was small, so whenever he saw a truck it became "A FUCK!! Mommy, look! A fuck!"
Trucks all became tractors after that.
posted by annieb at 6:12 PM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
Not a child swearing story but when I was in my 30s, I had a supervisor in his 40s who swore a lot, and was instructed by his superiors to "cut it out"...I worked third shift at a printing company with Fred, an old Linotype operator that ended up in proofreading/qc because he couldn't make the transition to phototype let alone desktop. After almost 50 years in the industry Fred was a creature of habit, and one of those habits was using profanity to cope with even the slightest amount of stress. He kept a jar of opaquer around for removing dust marks because "those cocksuckers on days can't wash the shit off their hands before loading film". Someone who made an error was a "fucking useless production artist with their head up their ass." Fred got by with it because he was otherwise a good, dedicated employee and, with only three other employees on 3rd shift, there weren't a lot of people around to offend.
That all changed when third shift was folded into second, moving our start time up to mid-afternoon. Fred did okay the first couple days -- his outbursts were replaced with a constant muttering under his breath about all the perceived wrongs of the day -- but by Thursday evening it was clear that he just was not handling stress well.
We had clients in the office Friday and, worse, Fred was actually expected to talk to them. On a good day he wasn't exactly the guy you want talking to a client but, after watching his stress levels ratchet all week, we were fearing the worst -- either Fred would call the client an "ungrateful whore" or he'd have a heart attack. Somehow he held it together but putting on a smile on top of all that stress is what finally broke him.
Around 4:00 PM, just as the clients were out the door, Fred stood, pounded both fists on his desk and let loose an f-bomb: FIDDLESTICKS!!!
Fred found a way to cope after all.
posted by nathan_teske at 6:20 PM on February 26, 2019 [5 favorites]
I run a twitter account for all the ridiculous things my now 6 year old son says: PippyQuark.
Some relevant tweets:
posted by maxcelcat at 6:52 PM on February 26, 2019 [9 favorites]
Some relevant tweets:
Stuck in traffic.And this typical phone call, from the other end of the house:
Pip: "Would now be a good time to swear?"
Daddy: "Yes, yes it would."
Pip: "Shit."
Calls Daddy on the phone.When I forget who is around:
Pip: "Daddy you're poo poo bum bum poo poo."
This goes on for a few minutes.
Pip: "Is this nearly the end?"
Daddy: "Of what?"
Pip: "This phone call!"
Daddy: "You can hang up whenever you like."
Daddy tells off Miss #Kitty for knocking stuff off the windowsill."Meow meow fucking meow" has now entered our family lexicon.
Pip: “Mummy, daddy said ‘Meow Meow fucking Meow isn’t going to do you any good!’”
Mummy tries and fails to maintain a stern parenting demeanor.
posted by maxcelcat at 6:52 PM on February 26, 2019 [9 favorites]
When I was in daycare, i said to one of the workers "my daddy says jesus christ motherfucker", the worker told my mom, who replied, well, he most likely does.
posted by PinkMoose at 6:55 PM on February 26, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by PinkMoose at 6:55 PM on February 26, 2019 [3 favorites]
Our four-year-old is really into "dumpster fire", but I like it more when he improvises. This morning he told us that school was garbage poop. (He actually enjoys school but not getting up for it.)
One of my first words was "clock", the story goes, only I wasn't great at the L sound as a kid and I was very excited and vocal when I saw a timepiece in a church once.
posted by condour75 at 7:09 PM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
One of my first words was "clock", the story goes, only I wasn't great at the L sound as a kid and I was very excited and vocal when I saw a timepiece in a church once.
posted by condour75 at 7:09 PM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
Speaking of using the word "fucking" as an intensifier reminds me of a story about my grandfather (this took place prior to World War I). He had come to the U.S. from Germany knowing very little English, and he was working in a factory and picking up English on the job. After a few months, he went to dinner with his sibling's family; they had been in American longer than him and had better English. So they were quite shocked when he was at the dinner table and asked them to "Pass the fucking potatoes." He was honestly confused when they got offended because his fellow workers at the factory used the word "fucking" casually all the time as a modifier/intensifier so he had no idea it was considered a "bad" word.
posted by gudrun at 8:43 PM on February 26, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by gudrun at 8:43 PM on February 26, 2019 [2 favorites]
The army swearing reminded me of a story recounted by one of the great Japanese-English translators* about his time in the US Army during WWII; a court martial of a soldier who, in the court record, "...did then call Sergeant ~~~ a mother-fucking son-of-a-bitch or words to that effect...". The question, the storyteller says, is what other words would have been precisely to that effect.
*I can't remember if it was Keene or Seidensticker, but I suspect Seiden-sama, it would have suited his grouchy sense of humor.
posted by huimangm at 9:38 PM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
*I can't remember if it was Keene or Seidensticker, but I suspect Seiden-sama, it would have suited his grouchy sense of humor.
posted by huimangm at 9:38 PM on February 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
When my niece was 3 years old, she was eating spaghetti with her hands and getting it and the tomato sauce all over herself. Her parents were too tired to care; she was eating, so they let it go. Suddenly, she stopped eating and took stock of herself. "God DAMN, I'm a mess." This niece now has a one-year-old girl of her own, and we're all waiting for Version 2.0.
posted by bryon at 10:17 PM on February 26, 2019 [9 favorites]
posted by bryon at 10:17 PM on February 26, 2019 [9 favorites]
And I noticed how on metafilter 'fucking' has a special role as a modifier.
It means something like 'heartfelt', 'real world', 'telling it like it is'.
I was once told that my 'fucks' and 'motherfucks' are more effective and elegant because I pronounce the hard K.
Best. Compliment. Ever.
posted by bendy at 10:30 PM on February 26, 2019 [3 favorites]
It means something like 'heartfelt', 'real world', 'telling it like it is'.
I was once told that my 'fucks' and 'motherfucks' are more effective and elegant because I pronounce the hard K.
Best. Compliment. Ever.
posted by bendy at 10:30 PM on February 26, 2019 [3 favorites]
My parents cussed a lot when I was a kid, so I began early and never really stopped, but for some reason my father let me play Duke Nukem 3D when it came out and that’s what really got me going. I was 5.
posted by gucci mane at 12:00 AM on February 27, 2019
posted by gucci mane at 12:00 AM on February 27, 2019
I remembered another because the 6yo has English today. Uccello means bird but is also slang for ‘dick.’
At the beginning of the year, her English homework was to memorize the characters’ names in her English workbook. “Mamma, I know them already. Poppy, Rowan, Fern, Squeak, and Dick.”
“Good job!”
“Mamma, Dick è un uccello.” (Dick is a penis)
Upon recovering, I open up her workbook to find there’s a pigeon named Dicken (no final s). Someone had fun with that Easter egg.
Bilingualism means your kids can embarrass you twice over.
posted by romakimmy at 12:11 AM on February 27, 2019 [6 favorites]
At the beginning of the year, her English homework was to memorize the characters’ names in her English workbook. “Mamma, I know them already. Poppy, Rowan, Fern, Squeak, and Dick.”
“Good job!”
“Mamma, Dick è un uccello.” (Dick is a penis)
Upon recovering, I open up her workbook to find there’s a pigeon named Dicken (no final s). Someone had fun with that Easter egg.
Bilingualism means your kids can embarrass you twice over.
posted by romakimmy at 12:11 AM on February 27, 2019 [6 favorites]
In our house, I Bowdlerize most of my exclamations of rage/irritation. For a while, I was drawing inspiration from Disney movies as my preferred G-rated cursing: "Jiminy Cricket!" ; "Peter Pan on a pirate ship!"; etc. Meanwhile, my wife curses like a sailor. My oldest synthesized this, and sometimes split the difference. When she was 4, she spilled a glass of milk and angrily exclaimed "Jiminy fucker!"
posted by Mayor West at 5:45 AM on February 27, 2019 [22 favorites]
posted by Mayor West at 5:45 AM on February 27, 2019 [22 favorites]
As an adult, through various experiences, I had arrived at the conclusion that the normal construction of a chain of cussing/insults escalated to conclude with the worst term possible, for best effect. I overheard a couple of young boys (probably age 8 or so) shouting in the street. One obviously very perturbed at the other, and letting loose with a string of "motherfucker, asshole, (something, something else)... then a pause as the target of the tirade is leaving, and the first unloads what must be the ultimate insult in his vocabulary: "TODD'S a piece of JUU_UUNK!" (junk. two syllables. for *emphasis*.)
posted by coppertop at 6:07 AM on February 27, 2019
posted by coppertop at 6:07 AM on February 27, 2019
A few more from the twitter thread:
@ShawnaFoster: When my son was five and saw we were about to get off the escalator he started to quietly whisper to himself “fuckfuckfuckfuckfuck” until we successfully made it over the threshold.
@derek_kramar: My oldest daughter has been swearing forever.... There has been a few great stories but the best was when she was 1 year old and I said it was time for a diaper; her response was "fuck that" clear as day.... Honourable mention goes to when she called the Easter Bunny a little fucker.
@zago_vasna: I baby-sat a six year old boy once, and he was experimenting w/ swearing. He used to say, “I don’t give a hell!” until I sat him down and explained, “look, it’s I don’t give a shit or I don’t give a fuck, but it’s never I don’t give a hell.” His eyes got so big!
@imdyinginLA: Once my sister screamed that my dad “scared the shit out of her”. She was three and after everything quieted she said “well that was awkward”.
@SethHilgert: I got the double bird from my 6 year old last night trying to get him in the shower. We don’t swear in our house, we are passively agressive when it comes to cursing. We’re Minnesotans.
@kawika: Stubbed my toe, hard, last week. Started to yell the "F" word, but managed to stick to the first letter for maybe five seconds. My five-year-old daughter, watching me struggle, proudly shouted "FUCK!" to fill in my blank.
@swpennell: When my dad died, my oldest child was ~3 years old. At the graveside, just after the priest finished and the family got up, she threw her Cheerios down and yelled, "GODDAMMIT PAWPAW!" very loudly. Since my Dad always cursed a blue streak, it was hilarious and comic relief.
posted by Wordshore at 6:58 AM on February 27, 2019 [5 favorites]
@ShawnaFoster: When my son was five and saw we were about to get off the escalator he started to quietly whisper to himself “fuckfuckfuckfuckfuck” until we successfully made it over the threshold.
@derek_kramar: My oldest daughter has been swearing forever.... There has been a few great stories but the best was when she was 1 year old and I said it was time for a diaper; her response was "fuck that" clear as day.... Honourable mention goes to when she called the Easter Bunny a little fucker.
@zago_vasna: I baby-sat a six year old boy once, and he was experimenting w/ swearing. He used to say, “I don’t give a hell!” until I sat him down and explained, “look, it’s I don’t give a shit or I don’t give a fuck, but it’s never I don’t give a hell.” His eyes got so big!
@imdyinginLA: Once my sister screamed that my dad “scared the shit out of her”. She was three and after everything quieted she said “well that was awkward”.
@SethHilgert: I got the double bird from my 6 year old last night trying to get him in the shower. We don’t swear in our house, we are passively agressive when it comes to cursing. We’re Minnesotans.
@kawika: Stubbed my toe, hard, last week. Started to yell the "F" word, but managed to stick to the first letter for maybe five seconds. My five-year-old daughter, watching me struggle, proudly shouted "FUCK!" to fill in my blank.
@swpennell: When my dad died, my oldest child was ~3 years old. At the graveside, just after the priest finished and the family got up, she threw her Cheerios down and yelled, "GODDAMMIT PAWPAW!" very loudly. Since my Dad always cursed a blue streak, it was hilarious and comic relief.
posted by Wordshore at 6:58 AM on February 27, 2019 [5 favorites]
I'm trying to teach myself to "swear" like Yosemite Sam in From Hare to Heir.
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:14 AM on February 27, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:14 AM on February 27, 2019 [1 favorite]
It's another slog home with the family in the car, but it's my spouse's birthday. From the back seat, we hear my 4-year-old say "shit." under his breath. We glance at each other and create an instant unspoken agreement that we won't address it.
Then he says it again, so we ask "what's wrong?"
"We forgot to get mom a present for her birthday."
- we hadn't. But we decided that he had used "shit" perfectly contextually, and in the save environment of being around family. And we've never heard any word from his teachers or others about 'inappropriate language' so we've let it slide.
posted by onehalfjunco at 12:27 PM on February 27, 2019 [1 favorite]
Then he says it again, so we ask "what's wrong?"
"We forgot to get mom a present for her birthday."
- we hadn't. But we decided that he had used "shit" perfectly contextually, and in the save environment of being around family. And we've never heard any word from his teachers or others about 'inappropriate language' so we've let it slide.
posted by onehalfjunco at 12:27 PM on February 27, 2019 [1 favorite]
“Horror” is a rough word to pronounce for a small child.
So you can imagine the look my mom got when I reported she’d taken me to the House of Horrors (around Halloween).
posted by bitter-girl.com at 12:31 PM on February 27, 2019 [2 favorites]
So you can imagine the look my mom got when I reported she’d taken me to the House of Horrors (around Halloween).
posted by bitter-girl.com at 12:31 PM on February 27, 2019 [2 favorites]
Daughter: I know the C word.
Me: You do?
Daughter: [whispers] Crap.
Me: Oh, right.
posted by nnethercote at 7:32 PM on February 27, 2019 [4 favorites]
Me: You do?
Daughter: [whispers] Crap.
Me: Oh, right.
posted by nnethercote at 7:32 PM on February 27, 2019 [4 favorites]
My mom *loves* to tell the story of the time that approximately 2-year-old hanov3r was in the back seat while she was driving. Someone cut her off, and she yelled "JESUS CHRIST". And, for the rest of the trip, what came from the back seat was the sound of me testing all the possible permutations of syllables and accents and emphasis. "Je-sus CHRIST. JEEE-sus christ. Je-SUS christ. JEE-sus CHRIST."
posted by hanov3r at 8:13 AM on February 28, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by hanov3r at 8:13 AM on February 28, 2019 [2 favorites]
Honestly, I think it's not so much that anything has changed in re kids and swearing. Instead, I think a couple different dynamics are at play:
1, a lot of these anecdotes are about very young toddlers who are just learning to speak, and who have no concept of register, audience, or social appropriateness yet. They also have pretty much no impulse control, so even if you could impart to a two year old that "fuck" isn't a nice word, that probably wouldn't prevent them from parroting it. I'd guess that 2 year olds swear more than kindergartners, for example. Since you probably don't have strong memories of being 2, you wouldn't remember whether you did this, or whether other toddlers in your circle did this.
2, if you don't have children, you're likely not getting exposed to this sort of thing in the wild. I was in my late 30s before I had a kid, so most of my ideas of how children behave were a solid 25+ years old before I was plunged into it. Your childhood memories sort of crystallize and universalize. And memory, of course, is a tricksy thing. (I actually do have memories of my younger siblings swearing in this innocent early verbal way in the 80s/early 90s, for the record.)
3, social media. Nowadays if you want to go find people telling anecdotes about their hilarious swearing children, all you have to do is go to twitter or reddit or the right sorts of facebook mommy groups. In the 80s, you were dependent on someone else bringing it up with you. Also, social media has hugely changed what is appropriate to share with other people. So it's likely that, in your day, this was of course happening all the time, but it was not considered fit for polite conversation.
4, I'm actually wondering if some linguistics scholarship, or at least a tendency to be descriptive rather than prescriptive about language, has trickled down to parenting books. I agree that there was a hard and fast NEVER SWEAR rule during my entire (conservative, middle class, rural) childhood. And also a lot of other class oriented and punitive rules about language, like "ain't ain't a word", "no double negatives", etc. A lot of that has fallen out of favor as the wider culture has changed. I can definitely imagine that this sort of thing shows up less in school curricula and parenting books than it would have in our parents' time. I see a lot more parents my age saying that they teach their kids that swearing is OK but there are social rules about it (never at school, not around other kids, etc), than I see "wash your mouth out with soap" attitudes. I definitely learned in college linguistics courses that swearing is normal, every language has it, and that there's nothing morally wrong about it per se. I decided then that I'd have a more moderate attitude about swearing when I became a parent. Obviously I have no idea if all these other parents took sociolinguistics courses in college and came to the same conclusions as I did, but enough general truisms about language that I learned as an undergrad have trickled into mainstream culture that I can only assume my attitudes aren't that unique.
For the record, my parents were big users of minced oaths, to the point that, 30+ years later, "god-doggit!" seems more marked to me than its real life swear counterpart.
posted by the milkman, the paper boy at 10:33 AM on February 28, 2019 [2 favorites]
1, a lot of these anecdotes are about very young toddlers who are just learning to speak, and who have no concept of register, audience, or social appropriateness yet. They also have pretty much no impulse control, so even if you could impart to a two year old that "fuck" isn't a nice word, that probably wouldn't prevent them from parroting it. I'd guess that 2 year olds swear more than kindergartners, for example. Since you probably don't have strong memories of being 2, you wouldn't remember whether you did this, or whether other toddlers in your circle did this.
2, if you don't have children, you're likely not getting exposed to this sort of thing in the wild. I was in my late 30s before I had a kid, so most of my ideas of how children behave were a solid 25+ years old before I was plunged into it. Your childhood memories sort of crystallize and universalize. And memory, of course, is a tricksy thing. (I actually do have memories of my younger siblings swearing in this innocent early verbal way in the 80s/early 90s, for the record.)
3, social media. Nowadays if you want to go find people telling anecdotes about their hilarious swearing children, all you have to do is go to twitter or reddit or the right sorts of facebook mommy groups. In the 80s, you were dependent on someone else bringing it up with you. Also, social media has hugely changed what is appropriate to share with other people. So it's likely that, in your day, this was of course happening all the time, but it was not considered fit for polite conversation.
4, I'm actually wondering if some linguistics scholarship, or at least a tendency to be descriptive rather than prescriptive about language, has trickled down to parenting books. I agree that there was a hard and fast NEVER SWEAR rule during my entire (conservative, middle class, rural) childhood. And also a lot of other class oriented and punitive rules about language, like "ain't ain't a word", "no double negatives", etc. A lot of that has fallen out of favor as the wider culture has changed. I can definitely imagine that this sort of thing shows up less in school curricula and parenting books than it would have in our parents' time. I see a lot more parents my age saying that they teach their kids that swearing is OK but there are social rules about it (never at school, not around other kids, etc), than I see "wash your mouth out with soap" attitudes. I definitely learned in college linguistics courses that swearing is normal, every language has it, and that there's nothing morally wrong about it per se. I decided then that I'd have a more moderate attitude about swearing when I became a parent. Obviously I have no idea if all these other parents took sociolinguistics courses in college and came to the same conclusions as I did, but enough general truisms about language that I learned as an undergrad have trickled into mainstream culture that I can only assume my attitudes aren't that unique.
For the record, my parents were big users of minced oaths, to the point that, 30+ years later, "god-doggit!" seems more marked to me than its real life swear counterpart.
posted by the milkman, the paper boy at 10:33 AM on February 28, 2019 [2 favorites]
minced oaths
Those are good with a pat of butter or a little cinnamon and honey.
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:36 PM on February 28, 2019 [4 favorites]
Those are good with a pat of butter or a little cinnamon and honey.
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:36 PM on February 28, 2019 [4 favorites]
I'm reminded of this video about Japanese swearing, and japanese people encountering english swearing.
My takeaway, many Japanese people swear very rarely (one woman remembered last swearing two years ago), and their swears are much less about body parts and more about telling people to die.
posted by gryftir at 2:55 AM on March 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
My takeaway, many Japanese people swear very rarely (one woman remembered last swearing two years ago), and their swears are much less about body parts and more about telling people to die.
posted by gryftir at 2:55 AM on March 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
Our friends' oldest went through a mid-toddler phase where she was saying, all in one breath: "SHIT! That's not a nice woooooord."
posted by deludingmyself at 2:44 PM on March 3, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by deludingmyself at 2:44 PM on March 3, 2019 [1 favorite]
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posted by klausman at 7:53 AM on February 26, 2019 [10 favorites]