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"Well, of course I hate you because you are Christian, but that doesn't mean I want to kill you."
July 12, 2002 1:55 AM   Subscribe

"Well, of course I hate you because you are Christian, but that doesn't mean I want to kill you." What a great quote. Sorry, I just couldn't resist. (NY Times)
posted by mrhappy (23 comments total)

 
Beyond that quote, this article gives me hope for that part of the world.
posted by donkeyschlong at 1:58 AM on July 12, 2002


Albeit slightly.
posted by donkeyschlong at 2:11 AM on July 12, 2002


The writer probably translated "hate" wrong. It's obvious.
posted by ParisParamus at 2:11 AM on July 12, 2002


You go, Paris. Tell it on the mountain.
posted by donkeyschlong at 2:28 AM on July 12, 2002


Hating, disliking or even being mildly irked by someone because of their religion is pretty pathetic.
posted by Summer at 3:32 AM on July 12, 2002


I don't hate, dislike, or irked by someone with a different religion. If you or your religion can't handle different points of view, there is something wrong with your religion. When people blindly follow anything that creates a dangerous situation.
posted by LinemanBear at 4:43 AM on July 12, 2002


I'm glad this article is out there - the more light thrown on Saudi-sponsored Wahabism, the better. It may have done some good overall, but examining the costs and effects seems really important. I forget which news-magazine t was, probably 60 Minutes, but they had a great piece about Wahabism, and it really opened my eyes.
posted by kokogiak at 8:09 AM on July 12, 2002


I am sick of people saying Islam is a religion of peace. A bunch of crap. This entire country embraces a country-condoned hatred of millions of people for no real reason. For some vague "they don't treat us well' notion. Well, I say, no kidding.

Ive got news for Muslims in the middle east. Generally speaking, if you say things like "declaring the war was relief to Muslims" and that "The faithful who must live abroad should "harbor enmity and hatred for the infidels and refrain from taking them as friends," it's kinda hard to have those you hate, were glad they were bombed, and won't consider friends, to have warm fuzzy feelings toward you.

America as a general rule doesn't "hate" them because they're Muslim. America has issue with Islam because it is a religion that seems to condone and embrace violence, hatred, intolerance, the degredation of women, and the stunting of intellectual thought. A few people discussing that perhaps flying a plane unprovolked into a building and killing thousands of people, as well as state-sanctioned hatred and intolerance maybe isn't such a good idea, doesn't make me jump for joy or hold out a lot of hope.

Bring on the flames, but this kind of thing really makes me angry. Yes, I know it's not every Muslim that feels this way, and that I made a large blanket statement, so you don't need to remind me
posted by aacheson at 8:43 AM on July 12, 2002


Makes me angry, too, aacheson. In fact, I'm ready to stop buying oil from them. Watcha say?
posted by hackly_fracture at 9:02 AM on July 12, 2002


(or perhaps it should be whatcha say)
posted by hackly_fracture at 9:03 AM on July 12, 2002


There are strong currents of difference in the Muslim world, similar to the splits and various flavors of Christianity, Judiasm or Buddhism. This article begins to point out some of these differences, but falls into the same "all Muslims" trap that helps no one. Pushing moderate Islamic peoples towards extremist Islamic ideas creates a larger problem.

Saying the Saudis are duplicitous is not unreasonable, Reading Arab News (Saudi Arabia's state published paper) for a few days tends to reveal the hatred of America, Jews, Christians and the view that they're (we're) all one and the same (or, to parallel neo-nazi ideas, "Zionist-controlled"). Dissent and discussions are undoubtedly good, but considering the consequences curtailing the limits of that dissent, I'm not getting my hopes up.

The ruling House of Saud is in trouble, having supported a foundation of extremism which is has found alliances with older tribal oppositions, the outlook for the Saudi Kingdom is quite precarious. They may be quite close to the sort of fundamentalist revolution under which Iran continues to suffer.

I don't see how the Islamic world will ever rise from poverty if they continue to ignore half of their workforce: women. Personally I find the treatment of women in the Arab-Islamic world deplorable. Practically, it's a fundamental factor in their ongoing poverty. Saudi-funded Wahhabi madrasas are encouraging these ideas all over the world, including the US. Our world is capitalist, and Arab cultures had a huge hand in making it that way (ancient history, salt trade, etc.) Having to argue that women are vital to the success of a society feels like arguing that the world is in fact round. Saudi Arabia will not lead the Arab-Islamic world into the future, they're invested far too much in the past.
posted by joemaller at 9:09 AM on July 12, 2002


I think when he said I hate you because you are a christian, it has a much broader context than just religion. In that part of the world, people havent forgotten the crusades. Their is a fear in the subconcious, more now after the weakining of the Muslim world. There is always this thought of the crusades, or a combined world conspiracy.

"Saudi Arabia will not lead the Arab-Islamic world into the future, they're invested far too much in the past."

I wouldnt agree on the past thing. I take example from the times of the Prophet (PBUH), and I see that his first wife was a widowed business woman, who had first hired him to help in her business. That pretty much sets the standard for me. Saudi Arabia will not lead Islamic world into the future, I agree, but only because they are invested in themselves.
posted by adnanbwp at 9:17 AM on July 12, 2002


Islam is a religion of capitalism far more than Christianity, Mohammed was a capitalist as was his first wife (noted above by adnan) and most of the people around him. And there is absolutely nothing in the Qu'ran that says women cannot be active participants in society. Unfortunately, it seems that the very tribalism that God's word revealed through Mohammed (from the Islamic pov) tried to eradicate have allowed certain members of society (men, the wealthy) to callously disregard the others. Unfortunately, as in any religion, those with power can find words in the Qu'ran to justify their acts which are entirely contrary to the spirit of the text.

It would be a fine idea to go back into the past and actually put in practice the central tenants of Islam, which include charity, justice, peace and virtue. All of those are sorely lacking in today's Arabian peninsula. Instead we have a version of the religion which rewards fealty above all else, which in turn breeds corruption, injustice, and hatred.
posted by cell divide at 9:56 AM on July 12, 2002


Hey aacheson, don't hate the religion. Hate the people who are taking the religion as an excuse for violence.

If you were to study the Prophet Mohammed's words, you'll realise that it is a religion of peace. Mohammed in his day was pro-social reform, trying to get warring tribes to get along. It's just that now a lot of people in the middle east are preaching an extremist INTERPRETATION of it.
posted by timyang at 10:31 AM on July 12, 2002


In my more optimistic moods, I like to delude myself that Christianity, my flavor of choice, is gradually emerging from this kind of you're-the-enemy-and-I-hate-you mindset. I like what timyang said, and I think it applies rather well to mainstream Christianity in the West too.
posted by alumshubby at 10:40 AM on July 12, 2002


Hating, disliking or even being mildly irked by someone because of their religion is pretty pathetic.

really? that's sorta extreme, when people tell me i'm going to hell i think i have a right to be irked.
posted by rhyax at 10:59 AM on July 12, 2002


really? that's sorta extreme, when people tell me i'm going to hell i think i have a right to be irked.

Yes, you've got a right to be mildly irked by people who shove their religion in your face, but if they're just standing there being Christian I don't think you've got a case.
posted by Summer at 11:40 AM on July 12, 2002


If you were to study the Prophet Mohammed's words, you'll realise that it is a religion of peace.

I disagree: Hypertext Qur'an
Especially if you're Jewish: References to Jews in the Koran

Having read from Judiasm, Christianity and Islam, I really don't think any of the Old Testament religions can be called a "religion of peace". Peace is something all three want, but the idea is usually at odds with being "chosen", "most righteous" or "most truthful" in a multi-cultural world.
posted by joemaller at 11:48 AM on July 12, 2002


It would be a fine idea to go back into the past and actually put in practice the central tenants of Islam...

I'm usually able to control my spelling-flame impulses, but I've seen this one too often to let it slide.

From Merriam-Webster:

tenant
1 a : one who holds or possesses real estate or sometimes personal property (as an annuity) by any kind of right b : one who has the occupation or temporary possession of lands or tenements of another; specifically : one who rents or leases (as a house) from a landlord
2 : OCCUPANT, DWELLER

tenet
a principle, belief, or doctrine generally held to be true; especially : one held in common by members of an organization, movement, or profession
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 12:36 PM on July 12, 2002


Yes, you've got a right to be mildly irked by people who shove their religion in your face, but if they're just standing there being Christian I don't think you've got a case.

But what if they're standing there backing a historically genocidal organization that has barely begun to acknowledge its atrocious crimes against humanity? That actively covers up its sex crimes against children? That does not condemn its members' hate crimes against homosexuals?

There are reasons to be irked and a whole lot more...
posted by badstone at 1:19 PM on July 12, 2002


Don't worry, Devil's, it's a welcome check. I assure you it's mental laziness not any problem with knowlege of the words. ;)
posted by cell divide at 1:21 PM on July 12, 2002


Joe, balance the quotes from the site you linked (Jews in the Koran) with a reading of Islamic history, and I don't think you come away with anything all that different from the other major religions. In virtually all of those Suras, "Jews" refers to a very specific group of Arab Jews living in Medina at that time. Compared to the calls for continued war and slaughter against the Amalekites in the Old Testament it seems almost benign. I think a complete reading of the Qu'ran will reveal that, like other old holy books, is rooted in its time period, when violence and the death penalty were common. However I don't think one can come away with the opinion that the Qu'ran on the whole is a violent book, rather it thoroughly strives for the opposite.
posted by cell divide at 1:34 PM on July 12, 2002


Islam is a religion of peice, Arial Sharon is a man of peice, and Enron is doubleplus good.
posted by delmoi at 9:27 PM on July 12, 2002


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