Is Satirical Mockery Enough to Contend With the Gadsden Flag’s Power?
October 9, 2020 5:36 AM Subscribe
"I specifically requested the opposite of this" is one my all-time favorite things.
posted by jquinby at 6:03 AM on October 9, 2020 [12 favorites]
posted by jquinby at 6:03 AM on October 9, 2020 [12 favorites]
When I'm driving and feeling full of piss, I've been known to take one of my gym shoes and waving it at those driving vehicles with Gadsen flags. Motherfucker, I'll tread on your snowflake feelings if I want.
posted by notsnot at 6:19 AM on October 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by notsnot at 6:19 AM on October 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
FTA: "Despite all this, supporters of the flag claim that its original purpose, for the American Revolution, means it shouldn’t be seen as racist — and they’re right, to a degree. This is not the Confederate flag, whose origin story remains entrenched in slavery and bad faith."
The swastika existed and had meaning long before the Nazi party coopted it. Outside of being an interesting but also relatively niche history note, nobody cares. Its primary association and its originating association are forever separate.
With the Gadsden flag, the satire ones work so well *specifically because* the real one has been similarly uprooted from its original meaning and been turned into a symbol of right-wing authoritarianism and bigotry. It should be seen as authoritarian and bigoted because that's the intent behind those flying it now, and trying to pretend it's not is sophistry on the same order as spewing "hErItAgE nOt HaTe" over the Stars & Bars.
posted by mystyk at 6:25 AM on October 9, 2020 [19 favorites]
The swastika existed and had meaning long before the Nazi party coopted it. Outside of being an interesting but also relatively niche history note, nobody cares. Its primary association and its originating association are forever separate.
With the Gadsden flag, the satire ones work so well *specifically because* the real one has been similarly uprooted from its original meaning and been turned into a symbol of right-wing authoritarianism and bigotry. It should be seen as authoritarian and bigoted because that's the intent behind those flying it now, and trying to pretend it's not is sophistry on the same order as spewing "hErItAgE nOt HaTe" over the Stars & Bars.
posted by mystyk at 6:25 AM on October 9, 2020 [19 favorites]
Outside of being an interesting but also relatively niche history note, nobody cares.
Not to get in a big derail here, but I think it needs to be pointed out that this definition of "nobody" would encompass a number of large Asian countries.
posted by Not A Thing at 6:57 AM on October 9, 2020 [26 favorites]
Not to get in a big derail here, but I think it needs to be pointed out that this definition of "nobody" would encompass a number of large Asian countries.
posted by Not A Thing at 6:57 AM on October 9, 2020 [26 favorites]
My wife refers to these as "Don't Read to Me" flags
posted by Ber at 7:12 AM on October 9, 2020 [27 favorites]
posted by Ber at 7:12 AM on October 9, 2020 [27 favorites]
This one is my fave. Minimalist. Exquisite.
posted by merriment at 7:20 AM on October 9, 2020 [27 favorites]
posted by merriment at 7:20 AM on October 9, 2020 [27 favorites]
I think this line is a great conversation starter this Thanksgiving:
Is tyranny in the eye of the beholder?posted by amanda at 7:22 AM on October 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
Fun little web nugget there, chavenet!
Y'know, the thought came to me as I read this article that there really aren't a lot of flags out there that have snakes on them.
posted by Trinity-Gehenna at 7:23 AM on October 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
Y'know, the thought came to me as I read this article that there really aren't a lot of flags out there that have snakes on them.
posted by Trinity-Gehenna at 7:23 AM on October 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
I used to really like the Gadsden flag, and I thought it could be used for good purposes. That was quite a while ago, before it became, well, this. But then, was it ever not that? Weren't the enslaved and the Indians on the side of the British? We live and learn, at least if we read after high school.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:24 AM on October 9, 2020 [12 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 7:24 AM on October 9, 2020 [12 favorites]
I think it needs to be pointed out that this definition of "nobody" would encompass a number of large Asian countries.
Not a derail, and point duly noted. My comment ignored quite a lot of nuance in service to a different point that really only applies to its meaning in Western nations in particular, and as such erased a different but still quite important cultural understanding of it. I should have been much more considerate. Thank you for reminding me to pay more attention to my blind spots.
posted by mystyk at 7:25 AM on October 9, 2020 [13 favorites]
Not a derail, and point duly noted. My comment ignored quite a lot of nuance in service to a different point that really only applies to its meaning in Western nations in particular, and as such erased a different but still quite important cultural understanding of it. I should have been much more considerate. Thank you for reminding me to pay more attention to my blind spots.
posted by mystyk at 7:25 AM on October 9, 2020 [13 favorites]
only applies to its meaning in Western nations in particular
I think you’re dismissing the experience of immigrants and their children and grandchildren. This is something they really have to contend with.
posted by mr_roboto at 7:29 AM on October 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
I think you’re dismissing the experience of immigrants and their children and grandchildren. This is something they really have to contend with.
posted by mr_roboto at 7:29 AM on October 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
I thought of doing a masked snake, don’t breathe on me, a couple months ago. It totally already existed.
posted by snofoam at 8:17 AM on October 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by snofoam at 8:17 AM on October 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
No doubt there should also be a “Don’t tread! I know what your thinking” version.
posted by snofoam at 8:19 AM on October 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by snofoam at 8:19 AM on October 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Someone very close to me -- who I love dearly -- flies a Gadsden Flag in front of their house in a recent development in a semi-rural area. Recently they collaborated with their neighbors to stop the development of another subdivision on fallow farmland directly behind their house because they didn't want their view and the sense of isolation they get from abutting undeveloped land spoiled.
I believe it's from this that I get my feelings that many of those displaying Gadsden flags nod more towards selfish behaviors than its original (and purported current) statement of being against any sort of organized tyranny.
posted by c0nsumer at 8:21 AM on October 9, 2020 [8 favorites]
I believe it's from this that I get my feelings that many of those displaying Gadsden flags nod more towards selfish behaviors than its original (and purported current) statement of being against any sort of organized tyranny.
posted by c0nsumer at 8:21 AM on October 9, 2020 [8 favorites]
This was my take, back in April.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:41 AM on October 9, 2020 [11 favorites]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:41 AM on October 9, 2020 [11 favorites]
I laughed at loud at "we like cops now".
posted by atrazine at 8:45 AM on October 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by atrazine at 8:45 AM on October 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
In Texas, we see a lot of the Come and Take It flag (and variations on it), with much the same intent, I think.
posted by adamrice at 9:09 AM on October 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by adamrice at 9:09 AM on October 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
This is adjacent to what is hopefully a burgeoning trend I've seen in a few places: a battle flag of the Army of the Potomac, victors at Gettysburg, flying next door to the asshole with the confederate flag.
posted by feloniousmonk at 9:11 AM on October 9, 2020 [17 favorites]
posted by feloniousmonk at 9:11 AM on October 9, 2020 [17 favorites]
In Texas, we see a lot of the Come and Take It flag (and variations on it), with much the same intent, I think. I haven't seen the flags here yet but Melon Labia sitckers are re rigueur for F350s here.
posted by Dr. Twist at 9:13 AM on October 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by Dr. Twist at 9:13 AM on October 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
I like this feminist/pro-choice take.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:23 AM on October 9, 2020 [15 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:23 AM on October 9, 2020 [15 favorites]
NO STEP ON SNEK
posted by Going To Maine at 9:31 AM on October 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 9:31 AM on October 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
Dr. Twist: "Melon Labia sitckers are re rigueur for F350s here."
Totally the best spellcheck fix EVAR
posted by chavenet at 9:31 AM on October 9, 2020 [8 favorites]
Totally the best spellcheck fix EVAR
posted by chavenet at 9:31 AM on October 9, 2020 [8 favorites]
I believe it's from this that I get my feelings that many of those displaying Gadsden flags nod more towards selfish behaviors than its original (and purported current) statement of being against any sort of organized tyranny.
This articulated why, as a citizen of a country with public single-payer healthcare, I've always had this nagging feeling that "Live free or die" is a threat, not a motto.
But these Gadsden retreads are pretty brilliant.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:32 AM on October 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
This articulated why, as a citizen of a country with public single-payer healthcare, I've always had this nagging feeling that "Live free or die" is a threat, not a motto.
But these Gadsden retreads are pretty brilliant.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:32 AM on October 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
I keep this one handy in case the warmongers try to come for me and Stephanie again.
posted by Scattercat at 9:53 AM on October 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by Scattercat at 9:53 AM on October 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
I felt like this should exist.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 9:57 AM on October 9, 2020 [11 favorites]
posted by evidenceofabsence at 9:57 AM on October 9, 2020 [11 favorites]
I actually did one of these with our illustrator for the net neutrality melee. I thought the ethernet thing turned out pretty well! In fact it turned out so well we saw it being waved at a net neutrality rally like a month after we first published it. The illustrator had to fight some competing claims over who made it by producing the original illustrator files.
Technically a self link but not really
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 10:10 AM on October 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
Technically a self link but not really
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 10:10 AM on October 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
In Texas, we see a lot of the Come and Take It flag (and variations on it), with much the same intent, I think.
This looks like a giant dildo flag.
posted by freakazoid at 10:14 AM on October 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
This looks like a giant dildo flag.
posted by freakazoid at 10:14 AM on October 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
Kate Beaton treats a separate instance of nationalist American snakes
posted by lorddimwit at 10:16 AM on October 9, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by lorddimwit at 10:16 AM on October 9, 2020 [6 favorites]
NO STEP ON SNEK
Diamondbacks didn't even make the playoffs. The sneks have been stepped.
posted by sideshow at 10:20 AM on October 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Diamondbacks didn't even make the playoffs. The sneks have been stepped.
posted by sideshow at 10:20 AM on October 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
It's funny when right-wing Christians use a snake as their avatar
posted by Saxon Kane at 10:29 AM on October 9, 2020 [10 favorites]
posted by Saxon Kane at 10:29 AM on October 9, 2020 [10 favorites]
What plays in my head when I see a Gadsden Flag.
posted by The Power Nap at 10:33 AM on October 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by The Power Nap at 10:33 AM on October 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
@Saxon Kane - yeah, a talking snake that advocates for defiance of authority? I guess since the fruit is off-screen they don't get it.
posted by The Vice Admiral of the Narrow Seas at 10:53 AM on October 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by The Vice Admiral of the Narrow Seas at 10:53 AM on October 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
This looks like a giant dildo flag.
The first time I ever saw one (without context in a Bucee's) I could not for the life of me figure out why there were so many color variations on a Hitachi vibrator. Especially stacked near all the Don't Mess With Texas Women merch.
posted by sciatrix at 10:59 AM on October 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
The first time I ever saw one (without context in a Bucee's) I could not for the life of me figure out why there were so many color variations on a Hitachi vibrator. Especially stacked near all the Don't Mess With Texas Women merch.
posted by sciatrix at 10:59 AM on October 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
I guess since the fruit is off-screen they don't get it.
There's a lot that the Tactical Christianity crowd don't get.
posted by mhoye at 11:50 AM on October 9, 2020 [11 favorites]
There's a lot that the Tactical Christianity crowd don't get.
posted by mhoye at 11:50 AM on October 9, 2020 [11 favorites]
I saw my first Come and Take It! flag here in Seattle this morning, on a car with Florida plates. I too wasn't sure if it depicted a canon or a Hitachi.
posted by Windopaene at 1:51 PM on October 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Windopaene at 1:51 PM on October 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
Melon Labia
I don't think I've seen or heard of this one yet. Does it have something to do with that new Harry Styles song?
posted by eviemath at 2:03 PM on October 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
I don't think I've seen or heard of this one yet. Does it have something to do with that new Harry Styles song?
posted by eviemath at 2:03 PM on October 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
It's a glorious spellcheck rewrite of Molon Labe which is Latin for "Come and take [them]" and which is related to the cannon images.
I'm sticking to Melon Labia though; much more apt.
posted by chavenet at 2:08 PM on October 9, 2020 [8 favorites]
I'm sticking to Melon Labia though; much more apt.
posted by chavenet at 2:08 PM on October 9, 2020 [8 favorites]
Melon Labia sitckers are re rigueur for F350s here.
I refer to the people with those stickers as the Moron Lobby.
posted by haileris23 at 2:08 PM on October 9, 2020 [8 favorites]
I refer to the people with those stickers as the Moron Lobby.
posted by haileris23 at 2:08 PM on October 9, 2020 [8 favorites]
haileris23: I've heard the sticker itself called the Moron Label. Same kinda thing.
posted by Pickman's Next Top Model at 2:37 PM on October 9, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by Pickman's Next Top Model at 2:37 PM on October 9, 2020 [8 favorites]
Greek, surely?
And I thought it was Spartan for “no fap”.
posted by acb at 3:26 PM on October 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
And I thought it was Spartan for “no fap”.
posted by acb at 3:26 PM on October 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
I'm sticking to Melon Labia though; much more apt.
I'm never going to see watermelon Sour Patch candy the same way again.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 4:16 PM on October 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
I'm never going to see watermelon Sour Patch candy the same way again.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 4:16 PM on October 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
“I Ate A Slinky” and “We Love Cops Now” are just...
*chef’s kiss*
posted by Big Al 8000 at 7:38 PM on October 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
*chef’s kiss*
posted by Big Al 8000 at 7:38 PM on October 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
I am also kind of shocked that I could not find this.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 8:47 PM on October 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by evidenceofabsence at 8:47 PM on October 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
the Come and Take It flag
One of the most confusing things about Texans is that so many of them act proud of this historic betrayal and dealing in bad faith.
If someone borrowed a shovel from their neighbor, then threatened to beat them with it when they asked for it back. Would we say that's a really cool and righteous person?
Well I know a lot of Texans would, anyway.
posted by SaltySalticid at 8:53 PM on October 9, 2020 [6 favorites]
One of the most confusing things about Texans is that so many of them act proud of this historic betrayal and dealing in bad faith.
If someone borrowed a shovel from their neighbor, then threatened to beat them with it when they asked for it back. Would we say that's a really cool and righteous person?
Well I know a lot of Texans would, anyway.
posted by SaltySalticid at 8:53 PM on October 9, 2020 [6 favorites]
Years ago I shared a parking lot with someone whose car had a simple yellow sticker with black text reading: "Noone is treading on you". I miss that car and wish I had worked harder to learn whose it was.
posted by dbx at 3:35 AM on October 10, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by dbx at 3:35 AM on October 10, 2020 [7 favorites]
If someone borrowed a shovel from their neighbor, then threatened to beat them with it when they asked for it back. Would we say that's a really cool and righteous person?
Depends whether your conservatism is about principles or about dominance.
posted by acb at 6:10 AM on October 10, 2020 [2 favorites]
Depends whether your conservatism is about principles or about dominance.
posted by acb at 6:10 AM on October 10, 2020 [2 favorites]
I have seen a Pine Tree flag (pine tree with "An Appeal To Heaven"). Not sure if it represents some specific modern movement, or is just a cool early American revolution flag that's specifically *not* the Gadsden flag? Does anyone know?
posted by thefool at 10:43 AM on October 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by thefool at 10:43 AM on October 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
In Texas, we see a lot of the Come and Take It flag (and variations on it), with much the same intent, I think.
I sold a few of these a few years ago.
posted by Devils Rancher at 2:18 PM on October 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
I sold a few of these a few years ago.
posted by Devils Rancher at 2:18 PM on October 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
Couldn’t seem to find this anywhere, so I had to re-post it. GODDAMMIT
posted by Devils Rancher at 2:25 PM on October 10, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Devils Rancher at 2:25 PM on October 10, 2020 [4 favorites]
This is a recreation of my favorite Gadsden flag I saw a few years ago at ECCC. I don't know who made it, but it's funny as hell.
posted by gc at 6:08 PM on October 10, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by gc at 6:08 PM on October 10, 2020 [2 favorites]
'Goddamn, well I declare, have you seen the like? / Their walls are built of cannonballs, their motto is "Don't tread on me".'
posted by treepour at 4:22 PM on October 12, 2020
posted by treepour at 4:22 PM on October 12, 2020
In a different context today, I unexpectedly ran across this variation on the Come and Take it flag, which cracked me up.
posted by adamrice at 6:59 AM on October 13, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by adamrice at 6:59 AM on October 13, 2020 [1 favorite]
By arashi-of -ota on tumblr:
i am mongoose
an wen its nite
an nazi scum
com out to fite
i wont stay home
an lik the bred.
i punch them out.
i live to tred.
posted by Former Congressional Representative Lenny Lemming at 6:22 PM on October 26, 2020 [6 favorites]
i am mongoose
an wen its nite
an nazi scum
com out to fite
i wont stay home
an lik the bred.
i punch them out.
i live to tred.
posted by Former Congressional Representative Lenny Lemming at 6:22 PM on October 26, 2020 [6 favorites]
I love all of these satirical Gadsden flags. Every single one. I think it would be hilarious to get a large group of people to show up at the next 3%er/2nd Amendment type protest fully outfitted in tactical gear (or maybe cheap hunting & fishing gear), sporting Nerf guns, flying the satirical flags and march alongside the militia types. Don't disagree with them. Display the same aggro attitudes and entitled put-upon attitudes but just wave your goofy non-weapons and piss-taking flags with in a spirit of Bizarro agreement and let the surreality of it all be the counter-protest.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 10:16 AM on October 28, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Big Al 8000 at 10:16 AM on October 28, 2020 [2 favorites]
I have seen a Pine Tree flag (pine tree with "An Appeal To Heaven"). Not sure if it represents some specific modern movement, or is just a cool early American revolution flag that's specifically not the Gadsden flag? Does anyone know?
Wikipedia has some basic info
posted by Going To Maine at 4:17 PM on October 30, 2020
Wikipedia has some basic info
posted by Going To Maine at 4:17 PM on October 30, 2020
Although not currently mentioned on Wikipedia, I have seen the Pine Tree Flag in use at local forced-birther rallies. From a quick Google the "appeal to heaven" language seems to be fairly popular with that crowd.
posted by Not A Thing at 5:09 PM on October 30, 2020
posted by Not A Thing at 5:09 PM on October 30, 2020
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