Feeling Unsure Shouldn’t Make You an Imposter
February 26, 2021 6:47 AM Subscribe
Stop Telling Women They Have Imposter Syndrome. Writing in the Harvard Business Review (limited free articles), Ruchika Tulshyan and Jodi-Ann Burey examine how and why the idea of imposter syndrome has been approached as an individual pathology rather than a symptom of systemic issues in business culture.
(h/t to Anne Helen Petersen's substack; "imposter syndrome" was coined in 1978 by psychologists Pauline Rose Clance and Suzanne Imes in their study The Imposter Phenomenon in High Achieving Women: Dynamics and Therapeutic Intervention. (pdf link))
"Imposter syndrome took a fairly universal feeling of discomfort, second-guessing, and mild anxiety in the workplace and pathologized it, especially for women. As white men progress, their feelings of doubt usually abate as their work and intelligence are validated over time. They’re able to find role models who are like them, and rarely (if ever) do others question their competence, contributions, or leadership style. Women experience the opposite. Rarely are we invited to a women’s career development conference where a session on “overcoming imposter syndrome” is not on the agenda."
"For women of color, self-doubt and the feeling that we don’t belong in corporate workplaces can be even more pronounced. Not because women of color (a broad, imprecise categorization) have an innate deficiency, but because the intersection of our race and gender often places us in a precarious position at work. Many of us across the world are implicitly, if not explicitly, told we don’t belong in white- and male-dominated workplaces. Half of the women of color surveyed by Working Mother Media plan to leave their jobs in the next two years, citing feelings of marginalization or disillusionment, which is consistent with our experiences. Exclusion that exacerbated self-doubt was a key reason for each of our transitions from corporate workplaces to entrepreneurship."
"Imposter syndrome took a fairly universal feeling of discomfort, second-guessing, and mild anxiety in the workplace and pathologized it, especially for women. As white men progress, their feelings of doubt usually abate as their work and intelligence are validated over time. They’re able to find role models who are like them, and rarely (if ever) do others question their competence, contributions, or leadership style. Women experience the opposite. Rarely are we invited to a women’s career development conference where a session on “overcoming imposter syndrome” is not on the agenda."
"For women of color, self-doubt and the feeling that we don’t belong in corporate workplaces can be even more pronounced. Not because women of color (a broad, imprecise categorization) have an innate deficiency, but because the intersection of our race and gender often places us in a precarious position at work. Many of us across the world are implicitly, if not explicitly, told we don’t belong in white- and male-dominated workplaces. Half of the women of color surveyed by Working Mother Media plan to leave their jobs in the next two years, citing feelings of marginalization or disillusionment, which is consistent with our experiences. Exclusion that exacerbated self-doubt was a key reason for each of our transitions from corporate workplaces to entrepreneurship."
the idea of imposter syndrome has been approached as an individual pathology rather than a symptom of systemic issues
I have to say, this is not how I have experienced the topic in the world of medicine. If anything, I hear people talk about the concept most often in the context of reassurance to trainees and early-career physicians that they are more competent than they have been made to think they are. Maybe the prevalence of imposter syndrome among medical trainees, which is astronomically high, helps it not to be seen as a pathology, and to be embraced as a tool of empowerment especially by trainees who are marginalized.
posted by saturday_morning at 7:28 AM on February 26, 2021 [22 favorites]
I have to say, this is not how I have experienced the topic in the world of medicine. If anything, I hear people talk about the concept most often in the context of reassurance to trainees and early-career physicians that they are more competent than they have been made to think they are. Maybe the prevalence of imposter syndrome among medical trainees, which is astronomically high, helps it not to be seen as a pathology, and to be embraced as a tool of empowerment especially by trainees who are marginalized.
posted by saturday_morning at 7:28 AM on February 26, 2021 [22 favorites]
Feeling Unsure Shouldn’t Make You an Imposter
Imposter Syndrome doesn't make you an imposter.
I'm not convinced by how easily the article thinks male academics get past IS either.
posted by biffa at 7:28 AM on February 26, 2021 [26 favorites]
Imposter Syndrome doesn't make you an imposter.
I'm not convinced by how easily the article thinks male academics get past IS either.
posted by biffa at 7:28 AM on February 26, 2021 [26 favorites]
Thank you for posting.
posted by firstdaffodils at 8:08 AM on February 26, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by firstdaffodils at 8:08 AM on February 26, 2021 [4 favorites]
Giving it a generous interpretation, I think I can see what the article is trying to say. Even though, as mentioned, professionals talking about this have been correctly calling our the causes already, the name "Impostor Syndrome" does makes it sound like it's something that needs to be addressed on the individual level, something we need to help individuals overcome. I know plenty of people who aren't familiar with more than the name and general concept who think about the issue on those terms.
Maybe renaming it "Toxic Work Culture That Fills People, Especially Marginalized People, With Dread Anxiety and Self-Doubt Syndrome" would better communicate the real issue? I'm open to a catchier alternative.
posted by Garm at 8:11 AM on February 26, 2021 [24 favorites]
Maybe renaming it "Toxic Work Culture That Fills People, Especially Marginalized People, With Dread Anxiety and Self-Doubt Syndrome" would better communicate the real issue? I'm open to a catchier alternative.
posted by Garm at 8:11 AM on February 26, 2021 [24 favorites]
"Self-doubt syndrome" might work.
It really does all come down to linguistics, doesn't it?
posted by amtho at 8:27 AM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
It really does all come down to linguistics, doesn't it?
posted by amtho at 8:27 AM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
I don't think it is simply a matter of self-doubt. In tech there is definitely a toxic attitude that basically everyone is an imposter programmer/engineer/etc. that embellished their resume and is just getting by on Googling code unless you have an advanced degree in your area of expertise. Then Googling is somehow acceptable lol.
posted by Young Kullervo at 8:38 AM on February 26, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Young Kullervo at 8:38 AM on February 26, 2021 [4 favorites]
I'm really glad to hear from comments here that the discourse around imposter syndrome is changing, because this article from the president of my alma mater is pretty much how imposter syndrome was addressed when I was an early-career engineer - "Practice, practice, practice!" 🤮
posted by muddgirl at 8:57 AM on February 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 8:57 AM on February 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
Like maybe I feel like an imposter because in my junior year, when a professor I greatly respected found out I had a high SAT verbal score, he said "Oh engineers never have high verbal scores." But I'm sure positive self talk is all I need.
posted by muddgirl at 9:06 AM on February 26, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 9:06 AM on February 26, 2021 [10 favorites]
Marginalized Identity Self-Sabotage Syndrome
..no?
too edgy?
..MISSS!
posted by firstdaffodils at 9:16 AM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
..no?
too edgy?
..MISSS!
posted by firstdaffodils at 9:16 AM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
...it's not self-sabotage, that's the whole point. When a system is built to tell someone they don't belong, it's not a "syndrome" to believe that.
posted by muddgirl at 9:19 AM on February 26, 2021 [25 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 9:19 AM on February 26, 2021 [25 favorites]
Oh boy. I have Thoughts and Feelings about this topic. My medical writing group just reviewed a piece submitted by one of our members, a white man, which took the stance that impostor syndrome happens to everyone, even white men. Which, ok yes, everyone in medicine has feelings of self-doubt; we are a profession of perfectionists and are also acutely aware of how easily a life can go wrong. In medicine, it's almost gotten to the point where if you don't say you have impostor syndrome, you are unbelievably arrogant.
But the type of impostor syndrome experienced by women and people of color (and especially by women of color) is at a whole 'nother level. Like the times when a patient talks to the white male undergraduate shadower, instead of the Black or brown attending physician. Or the times when a patient says they were hospitalized for 3 days at the Outside Hospital and never saw a doctor. I naively used to believe that, and used to think that OSHs were just free-for-alls. I now know that what the patient meant, 99% of the time, was the doctor they saw wasn't a balding white man.
On a professional level, we are told, implicitly and sometimes explicitly, that there is only room for one diversity hire. (UGH THAT TERM) And so for those of us who get a seat at the table, there is a great deal of unrecognized emotional labor at work, managing the feelings of white male leadership while simultaneously trying to encourage our students and trainees not to give up. Woe betide you if you get labeled Angry or Playing the Race Card.
About two years ago, I started keeping a log on my phone of "Microaggressions This Month" and at the end of the month, donate that amount x10 to our local Under-represented in Medicine community outreach program. It's never less than $50/month. And I am not even in a group that is under-represented in medicine!
In so many ways, impostor syndrome is the result of being the only one, or one of a handful, from your in-group. It's the weight on your shoulders to not screw up because if you screw up while Black, or screw up while LGBTQ, or screw up while not performing White Male Doctor appropriately, it's not just going to be your screw-up, it's going to play right into every stereotype that your colleagues and patients have. I think that's what the "everyone has impostor syndrome" trope fails to recognize -- it's a very specific psychological response to a systemic problem, and once it's there, it's really really hard to root out.
posted by basalganglia at 9:20 AM on February 26, 2021 [44 favorites]
But the type of impostor syndrome experienced by women and people of color (and especially by women of color) is at a whole 'nother level. Like the times when a patient talks to the white male undergraduate shadower, instead of the Black or brown attending physician. Or the times when a patient says they were hospitalized for 3 days at the Outside Hospital and never saw a doctor. I naively used to believe that, and used to think that OSHs were just free-for-alls. I now know that what the patient meant, 99% of the time, was the doctor they saw wasn't a balding white man.
On a professional level, we are told, implicitly and sometimes explicitly, that there is only room for one diversity hire. (UGH THAT TERM) And so for those of us who get a seat at the table, there is a great deal of unrecognized emotional labor at work, managing the feelings of white male leadership while simultaneously trying to encourage our students and trainees not to give up. Woe betide you if you get labeled Angry or Playing the Race Card.
About two years ago, I started keeping a log on my phone of "Microaggressions This Month" and at the end of the month, donate that amount x10 to our local Under-represented in Medicine community outreach program. It's never less than $50/month. And I am not even in a group that is under-represented in medicine!
In so many ways, impostor syndrome is the result of being the only one, or one of a handful, from your in-group. It's the weight on your shoulders to not screw up because if you screw up while Black, or screw up while LGBTQ, or screw up while not performing White Male Doctor appropriately, it's not just going to be your screw-up, it's going to play right into every stereotype that your colleagues and patients have. I think that's what the "everyone has impostor syndrome" trope fails to recognize -- it's a very specific psychological response to a systemic problem, and once it's there, it's really really hard to root out.
posted by basalganglia at 9:20 AM on February 26, 2021 [44 favorites]
I think the problem is the word syndrome, which makes it seem like a disease or disorder that the individual is suffering from rather than a reasonable result of the structure of institutions.
posted by mr_roboto at 9:21 AM on February 26, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by mr_roboto at 9:21 AM on February 26, 2021 [7 favorites]
I should have known Imposter Syndrome wasn't real.
posted by CynicalKnight at 9:21 AM on February 26, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by CynicalKnight at 9:21 AM on February 26, 2021 [9 favorites]
So this is another form of oppression where the oppressed are told that the correct response to being told endlessly that they couldn't possibly be qualified to do the work they're absolutely able to do is accept this is how the system works, suck up their self-doubt, and just get on with doing whatever it is they're actually capable of doing, and for god's sake don't rock the boat. Just like every other form of oppression?
I gotta say I don't think that solution is going to work for impostor syndrome, just like it doesn't work for any other kind of oppression.
Can we burn everything down yet?
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:22 AM on February 26, 2021 [6 favorites]
I gotta say I don't think that solution is going to work for impostor syndrome, just like it doesn't work for any other kind of oppression.
Can we burn everything down yet?
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:22 AM on February 26, 2021 [6 favorites]
Muddgirl, I was taking a tone from some of the other statements in the thread: You're also correct.
Realistically, it's probably both: But for marginalized identities/people of color, I would wholly agree it is moreso not a syndrome, and part of a much larger systemic problem. Hope that clarifies.
posted by firstdaffodils at 9:24 AM on February 26, 2021
Realistically, it's probably both: But for marginalized identities/people of color, I would wholly agree it is moreso not a syndrome, and part of a much larger systemic problem. Hope that clarifies.
posted by firstdaffodils at 9:24 AM on February 26, 2021
You're not suss, it's the system that's suss.
posted by adept256 at 9:25 AM on February 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by adept256 at 9:25 AM on February 26, 2021 [3 favorites]
Maybe there need to be different words for the syndrome experienced by everyone/white men/almost all doctors, and the very different and much worse - and externally triggered - syndromes experienced by women and POC in environments where they are not expected or automatically respected. These are two very different experiences; maybe calling the latter by the same name as the former is diminishing the perceived gravity of the latter.
posted by amtho at 9:26 AM on February 26, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by amtho at 9:26 AM on February 26, 2021 [14 favorites]
Inclined to agree, amtho.
"On a professional level, we are told, implicitly and sometimes explicitly, that there is only room for one diversity hire." ..Wow. What a reminder (USA and it's racist/systemic overtones)
posted by firstdaffodils at 9:29 AM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
"On a professional level, we are told, implicitly and sometimes explicitly, that there is only room for one diversity hire." ..Wow. What a reminder (USA and it's racist/systemic overtones)
posted by firstdaffodils at 9:29 AM on February 26, 2021 [1 favorite]
I think the article is making a great point about "oh you just have Imposter Syndrome, you're not really being treated differently" being adopted as a tool of oppression, but this is a weaponized perversion of what I think is a very good and helpful concept, and I wish the article had been clearer about that. As I understand it -- and as the concept has been incredibly useful for me as a constantly self-doubting out queer person -- is that people who are successful still feel like they didn't earn that success and that they're really just frauds and live in fear that they will be found out one day. That's not the scenario the article leads with at all -- that was someone clearly being aggressively marginalized to the point where success wasn't even a remote possibility. As lalochezia said more succinctly than I just did, don't throw out the baby with the bathwater!
posted by treepour at 9:37 AM on February 26, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by treepour at 9:37 AM on February 26, 2021 [8 favorites]
It's the same phenomenon though. Here's an analogy. There's a public path in your town and one day someone hangs signs that say "Trespassers will be shot." Maybe you go home, maybe you laugh and take a walk anyway. You get shot, you call the police and maybe they say "what did you think would happen? The sign says trespassers will be shot." Maybe you go home, stop using that path. Or maybe you keep using the path, and wear a bulletproof jacket. Or maybe you rally together other neighbors and get the signs taken down. But if, every time you use the path, you secretly fear that you will be shot, is that "Imposter syndrome?" Or is it a healthy sense of self-preservation?
To me that is the STEM pipeline.
posted by muddgirl at 9:44 AM on February 26, 2021 [22 favorites]
To me that is the STEM pipeline.
posted by muddgirl at 9:44 AM on February 26, 2021 [22 favorites]
Incisive analogy, thank you. I didn't intend to lend too much credence to the 'syndrome' area of this subject (of course there is probably a percentage of people with an actual syndrome or more physio-psychologically based concerns related, but likely smaller), but I do agree, more attention needs to be placed on systemic concern.
"Research from Kecia M. Thomas finds that too often women of color enter their companies as “pets” but are treated as threats once they gain influence in their roles. Women of color are by no means a monolith, but we are often linked by our common experiences of navigating stereotypes that hold us back from reaching our full potential."
In a weird, slightly distant way (but similar vein), the 'syndrome' phrasing reminds me of a University of Chicago scholarly article I'd read, about the over-diagnosis of women with BPD, or other "syndromes," in an effort to pathologize or gaslight their experiences or methods of self-defense. "He's not cheating on you - you probably have BPD."
Telling someone they have imposter syndrome, when they really just deserve acknowledgement, recognition, or support, isn't drastically far away.
posted by firstdaffodils at 9:54 AM on February 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
"Research from Kecia M. Thomas finds that too often women of color enter their companies as “pets” but are treated as threats once they gain influence in their roles. Women of color are by no means a monolith, but we are often linked by our common experiences of navigating stereotypes that hold us back from reaching our full potential."
In a weird, slightly distant way (but similar vein), the 'syndrome' phrasing reminds me of a University of Chicago scholarly article I'd read, about the over-diagnosis of women with BPD, or other "syndromes," in an effort to pathologize or gaslight their experiences or methods of self-defense. "He's not cheating on you - you probably have BPD."
Telling someone they have imposter syndrome, when they really just deserve acknowledgement, recognition, or support, isn't drastically far away.
posted by firstdaffodils at 9:54 AM on February 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
From the article:
"In truth, we don’t belong because we were never supposed to belong. Our presence in most of these spaces is a result of decades of grassroots activism and begrudgingly developed legislation. Academic institutions and corporations are still mired in the cultural inertia of the good ol’ boys’ clubs and white supremacy. Biased practices across institutions routinely stymie the ability of individuals from underrepresented groups to truly thrive."
I feel like the above quote gets at another concept that I've found helpful--the theory of racialiized organizations:
From a different article also in HBR:
"the idea of the race-neutral organization has done a great disservice to our understanding of race relations in the workplace, allowing scholars and practitioners to see racial exclusion as unfortunate aberrations or slight deviations from otherwise color-blind ideals. In reality (and even though we typically do not say this out loud), many mainstream American organizations have profited from and reinforced white dominance. Many still do. Understanding this context is vital to seeing organizations for what they really are: not meritocracies, but long-standing social structures built and managed to prioritize whiteness. Only then can leaders begin thinking differently about race — not as a temporary problem to solve or a box to check, but as a fundamental part of what it means to be a company in America. Only then can they have a better understanding of why their diversity efforts do so little to attract, retain, and promote people of color — and what they need to do to change that.
posted by mandymanwasregistered at 10:03 AM on February 26, 2021 [12 favorites]
"In truth, we don’t belong because we were never supposed to belong. Our presence in most of these spaces is a result of decades of grassroots activism and begrudgingly developed legislation. Academic institutions and corporations are still mired in the cultural inertia of the good ol’ boys’ clubs and white supremacy. Biased practices across institutions routinely stymie the ability of individuals from underrepresented groups to truly thrive."
I feel like the above quote gets at another concept that I've found helpful--the theory of racialiized organizations:
From a different article also in HBR:
"the idea of the race-neutral organization has done a great disservice to our understanding of race relations in the workplace, allowing scholars and practitioners to see racial exclusion as unfortunate aberrations or slight deviations from otherwise color-blind ideals. In reality (and even though we typically do not say this out loud), many mainstream American organizations have profited from and reinforced white dominance. Many still do. Understanding this context is vital to seeing organizations for what they really are: not meritocracies, but long-standing social structures built and managed to prioritize whiteness. Only then can leaders begin thinking differently about race — not as a temporary problem to solve or a box to check, but as a fundamental part of what it means to be a company in America. Only then can they have a better understanding of why their diversity efforts do so little to attract, retain, and promote people of color — and what they need to do to change that.
posted by mandymanwasregistered at 10:03 AM on February 26, 2021 [12 favorites]
Mod note: Couple of comments deleted. Please don't come into a discussion about how this is a specific phenomenon that affects women and people of color in majority-male or majority-white workplaces and institutions, and reduce it to more general issues of personal doubt faced by everyone including people who are in dominant groups. These are two separate things. If you're a white male in a majority white male environment, your personal doubts are recognized, but they're really not the topic here; please let it be.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:20 AM on February 26, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:20 AM on February 26, 2021 [6 favorites]
I work in tech, and quite honestly I hear plenty of white men use "imposter syndrome" for humblebrag purposes, like: "Wow, it's wild that I founded this company and now I'm responsible for dozens of people, and of course the million dollars of seed funding, and sometimes there's this tiny voice that says I don't actually deserve this and anyone could do my job if they were given the same opportunities, but I guess that's just the old imposter syndrome."
posted by RobotHero at 10:21 AM on February 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by RobotHero at 10:21 AM on February 26, 2021 [2 favorites]
Nevermind, reading the thread I see the issue isn't the concept of imposter syndrome, but the support networks given to men (which I think is maybe why I feel it more acutely because I've had to throw myself in and just learn by fail fail fail with a little help here and there, but I don't work in a professional environment on these things, so maybe that's why - if I did... But... Watching the way white geeks treat each other, it's not as if they're all eager to help each other overcome the adversities.
There are explanatory models that do cohere to social justice without misusing the concept of Imposter Syndrome, which I think is the issue here. It's not that the issue being brought up is wrong, but... framing it as related to imposter syndrome might not really be accurate with what the issue really is?
I'm not trying to mansplain, I'm sure this cursory glance I'm reading in the thread is just the surface, so I will have a lot to read and get the details of the argument. Apologies for being such a cynic - I swear I'm trying to be better!.
posted by symbioid at 10:27 AM on February 26, 2021
There are explanatory models that do cohere to social justice without misusing the concept of Imposter Syndrome, which I think is the issue here. It's not that the issue being brought up is wrong, but... framing it as related to imposter syndrome might not really be accurate with what the issue really is?
I'm not trying to mansplain, I'm sure this cursory glance I'm reading in the thread is just the surface, so I will have a lot to read and get the details of the argument. Apologies for being such a cynic - I swear I'm trying to be better!.
posted by symbioid at 10:27 AM on February 26, 2021
I was really glad to see the strong support for the intersectionality of the issue. They included several different groups of marginalized women. Good stuff. There is, perhaps, the addition of non-binary individuals that needs to be considered. Intersectional feminism seems to have shifted to incorporate both women and non-binary people when discussing these issues.
As a woman in science, I definitely see not just me, but many other women and non-binary people struggling with self doubt, however you label it. I'm glad the article examines the root causes.
posted by Flight Hardware, do not touch at 10:34 AM on February 26, 2021 [6 favorites]
As a woman in science, I definitely see not just me, but many other women and non-binary people struggling with self doubt, however you label it. I'm glad the article examines the root causes.
posted by Flight Hardware, do not touch at 10:34 AM on February 26, 2021 [6 favorites]
The answer to overcoming imposter syndrome is not to fix individuals but to create an environment that fosters a variety of leadership styles and in which diverse racial, ethnic, and gender identities are seen as just as professional as the current model, which Opie describes as usually "Eurocentric, masculine, and heteronormative."
I think the emphasis on changing norms and structures is important, though I also think that, short term, the best a lot of people can do is address their individual needs. The messages "it is okay to feel doubt but you might be more on top of this than you realize / than people are telling you" and "you deserve to be somewhere even if the system is designed to exclude you" aren't necessarily pathologizing so much as a way of recognizing the problem and trying to push forward.
The flip side of change at the individual level is that there are people in positions of power who should feel more doubt and be more considerate of others. I think that gets lost sometimes in the push toward empowerment, e.g., "Hey, see how that guy acts with impunity and disregards the needs of other people? We should all do that!" And, well, nah. We shouldn't. People shouldn't be disproportionately burdened, but that means getting folks at the top to change. We shouldn't need to meet exclusionary and arrogant folks where they're at or try to be just like them.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 11:17 AM on February 26, 2021 [6 favorites]
I think the emphasis on changing norms and structures is important, though I also think that, short term, the best a lot of people can do is address their individual needs. The messages "it is okay to feel doubt but you might be more on top of this than you realize / than people are telling you" and "you deserve to be somewhere even if the system is designed to exclude you" aren't necessarily pathologizing so much as a way of recognizing the problem and trying to push forward.
The flip side of change at the individual level is that there are people in positions of power who should feel more doubt and be more considerate of others. I think that gets lost sometimes in the push toward empowerment, e.g., "Hey, see how that guy acts with impunity and disregards the needs of other people? We should all do that!" And, well, nah. We shouldn't. People shouldn't be disproportionately burdened, but that means getting folks at the top to change. We shouldn't need to meet exclusionary and arrogant folks where they're at or try to be just like them.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 11:17 AM on February 26, 2021 [6 favorites]
For me it's the other side of the coin to white mediocre men being elevated. As a woman who has to be super competent to get to the same place, one finds oneself thinking "this job is easy form me, but hard for them, am I missing something?" Nope, just the assumed competence given men but not women.
posted by dipolemoment at 11:28 AM on February 26, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by dipolemoment at 11:28 AM on February 26, 2021 [9 favorites]
One of my most favorited comments on this site was about the heightened criticism of female academics and how that (naturally) leads to female academics being less confident in their work.
And I didn't really talk about the effect of daily interactions with (mostly men) who assume that you're incompetent - or at least less competent than other men. That's something I experienced in academia and still experience outside of it. One of the most demoralizing experiences, when I doubted myself the most, was when I was living in another country to do research and was surrounded mostly by men.
I'd never lived with mostly men before. I was raised by a single mom, had mostly (but not entirely) female friends. My subject had a pretty even split between men and women, and until then I had had female advisors, colleagues, etc around me most of the time, even if there were also men.
And I realized... being around mostly men can really, really suck, even when the men are "nice." None of it was explicit "you are a woman so you are unqualified," but the constant assumption that I was helpless or ignorant, made harder to deal with by the fact that sometimes I needed help or was ignorant (like any human being), was emotionally exhausting. It wasn't until I got back home that I realized how much of an effect that constant undermining had had on me.
I can't imagine how bad it must be for people who are a minority in their fields and this is never-fucking-ending.
BTW, I want to say thank you for mentioning "limited free articles" after your link. I know I can just use incognito mode or a google cache much of the time, but it's considerate to let people choose how to spend those limited free articles.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 2:46 PM on February 26, 2021 [22 favorites]
And I didn't really talk about the effect of daily interactions with (mostly men) who assume that you're incompetent - or at least less competent than other men. That's something I experienced in academia and still experience outside of it. One of the most demoralizing experiences, when I doubted myself the most, was when I was living in another country to do research and was surrounded mostly by men.
I'd never lived with mostly men before. I was raised by a single mom, had mostly (but not entirely) female friends. My subject had a pretty even split between men and women, and until then I had had female advisors, colleagues, etc around me most of the time, even if there were also men.
And I realized... being around mostly men can really, really suck, even when the men are "nice." None of it was explicit "you are a woman so you are unqualified," but the constant assumption that I was helpless or ignorant, made harder to deal with by the fact that sometimes I needed help or was ignorant (like any human being), was emotionally exhausting. It wasn't until I got back home that I realized how much of an effect that constant undermining had had on me.
I can't imagine how bad it must be for people who are a minority in their fields and this is never-fucking-ending.
BTW, I want to say thank you for mentioning "limited free articles" after your link. I know I can just use incognito mode or a google cache much of the time, but it's considerate to let people choose how to spend those limited free articles.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 2:46 PM on February 26, 2021 [22 favorites]
I've heard so many women and POC in STEM say, "I know it's just imposter syndrome and I need to get over it." Or, "The problem is my imposter syndrome, and I have that because I have such low self-esteem." Or, "I know I just need to learn to be more confident, but I can't seem to do it."
Early education on this was helpful in that it let people know that they are probably better than they think they are.
The way it turns corrosive is that when marginalized people think that the problem is how they react to the environment that seeks to exclude them, rather than recognizing that the problem is with the environment. It's just one more way that they can feel like they're doing it wrong.
It's important to say, "You have imposter syndrome for good reason." Those reasons include but are not limited to: lack of encouragement (and sometimes active discouragement), lack of mentorship and investment in you (and often harsh judgement and relentless criticism for every mistake and shortcoming instead), lack of reward for being just as good at what you do as the people who are getting the awards, being judged as a member of your category rather than as an individual, and never seeing someone who looks like you doing the things you want to do.
If you have imposter syndrome, you think you're not as good because you are bombarded with messages, subtle and overt, from society, from family, from friends and peers, and from those who should be colleagues and mentors, that you are NOT ENOUGH. You are reading those signals accurately and you're getting the message that was sent.
It's just that the message is a lie.
People with imposter's syndrome don't need to be told they have a "syndrome." They need trustworthy, informed experts that can give them accurate data on where they stand, help them recognize and filter out the biased and even hostile feedback, and them process what happens to them what they've learned.
posted by BrashTech at 2:51 PM on February 26, 2021 [16 favorites]
Early education on this was helpful in that it let people know that they are probably better than they think they are.
The way it turns corrosive is that when marginalized people think that the problem is how they react to the environment that seeks to exclude them, rather than recognizing that the problem is with the environment. It's just one more way that they can feel like they're doing it wrong.
It's important to say, "You have imposter syndrome for good reason." Those reasons include but are not limited to: lack of encouragement (and sometimes active discouragement), lack of mentorship and investment in you (and often harsh judgement and relentless criticism for every mistake and shortcoming instead), lack of reward for being just as good at what you do as the people who are getting the awards, being judged as a member of your category rather than as an individual, and never seeing someone who looks like you doing the things you want to do.
If you have imposter syndrome, you think you're not as good because you are bombarded with messages, subtle and overt, from society, from family, from friends and peers, and from those who should be colleagues and mentors, that you are NOT ENOUGH. You are reading those signals accurately and you're getting the message that was sent.
It's just that the message is a lie.
People with imposter's syndrome don't need to be told they have a "syndrome." They need trustworthy, informed experts that can give them accurate data on where they stand, help them recognize and filter out the biased and even hostile feedback, and them process what happens to them what they've learned.
posted by BrashTech at 2:51 PM on February 26, 2021 [16 favorites]
Imposter Syndrome is so very real... but on a systemic level and not on an individual level. When your interactions as a woman or a POC constantly deliver the message that you are not good enough, not a "good fit" and do not belong, the problem is not you.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:23 PM on February 26, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 3:23 PM on February 26, 2021 [5 favorites]
Employees who can’t (or won’t) conform to male-biased social styles are told they have imposter syndrome.
Story of my ex-life in STEM
posted by polymodus at 1:48 AM on February 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
Story of my ex-life in STEM
posted by polymodus at 1:48 AM on February 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
Personal thoughts snipped to hold space, but serendipitous SMBC today.
posted by Wrinkled Stumpskin at 5:34 AM on February 27, 2021
posted by Wrinkled Stumpskin at 5:34 AM on February 27, 2021
Starting to worry I don't actually have Imposter Syndrome, I'm just pretending to fit in with the other high-status professionals.
posted by officer_fred at 1:46 PM on February 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by officer_fred at 1:46 PM on February 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
Potentially related useful concepts with a lot of research: stereotype threat.
Not my area but the study that sticks in my memory is the one where the kids were equally good at math but being reminded of being a girl or non-white caused worse performance. Maybe an actual psychologist can chime in.
Presumably this negative socialization or concern of threat is making things harder, particularly in a workplace where one stands out as different.
posted by ec2y at 5:48 PM on February 27, 2021
Not my area but the study that sticks in my memory is the one where the kids were equally good at math but being reminded of being a girl or non-white caused worse performance. Maybe an actual psychologist can chime in.
Presumably this negative socialization or concern of threat is making things harder, particularly in a workplace where one stands out as different.
posted by ec2y at 5:48 PM on February 27, 2021
« Older “All great works of literature either dissolve a... | “For some, this might be old hat, and -for others-... Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
I can categorically state that a large amount of discussion around impostor syndrome in academia does. not. do. this. and specifically addresses root cause of systemic -isms described in the article.
when approached correctly it is a profoundly useful concept. people experience systematic oppressions as individuals and not as systematic statistical particles buffeted by wider societywide forces. their individual feelings and experiences matter.
I can see how shouting "IMPOSTOR" loud or quiet without context, or in an aggressive or poorly-managed work environment, or in a way that allows the word to be (subtly or not) weaponized would add to the weight of microagressions and self doubt. The issue is to fix the way we address the issue; but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater!
posted by lalochezia at 7:08 AM on February 26, 2021 [46 favorites]