Which was the stylus at the time
March 15, 2021 10:12 AM Subscribe
The finest Simpsons history posting group on Facebook - since that story of the rocks painted as copper last week - is just emerging from an extremely intense exploration of how many jokes they can get from that 1750 BC cuneiform complaint tablet to a guy called Ea-nasirOr, how to remake classic Simpsons memes into jokes about Sumerian copper merchants delivering substandard ingots.
This is extremely my shit.
posted by migurski at 10:44 AM on March 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by migurski at 10:44 AM on March 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/exw6sl/the_oldest_customer_complaint_we_currently_know_of/
posted by sandking at 10:53 AM on March 15, 2021
posted by sandking at 10:53 AM on March 15, 2021
"Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to buy bad copper."
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:56 AM on March 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:56 AM on March 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
There's also fan fiction, FYI.
I'm guessing that if Ea-Nasir ever dreamed of immortality and his works and deeds echoing across the millennia, he never imagined that it would take quite this form.
posted by yasaman at 11:01 AM on March 15, 2021 [12 favorites]
I'm guessing that if Ea-Nasir ever dreamed of immortality and his works and deeds echoing across the millennia, he never imagined that it would take quite this form.
posted by yasaman at 11:01 AM on March 15, 2021 [12 favorites]
when you came, you said to me as follows : there are 3 links in the fpp.
I have sent as messengers my mouse clicks
You alone treat my messenger with contempt! in fact you include 2 copies of the same link, expecting me to value them independently!
I shall exercise against you my right of rejection because you have treated me with contempt.
posted by lalochezia at 11:09 AM on March 15, 2021 [46 favorites]
I have sent as messengers my mouse clicks
You alone treat my messenger with contempt! in fact you include 2 copies of the same link, expecting me to value them independently!
I shall exercise against you my right of rejection because you have treated me with contempt.
posted by lalochezia at 11:09 AM on March 15, 2021 [46 favorites]
Aah, OK. I wondered what was going on with the sudden burst in Ea-Nasir memes on my FB. (Luckily, I knew what Ea-Nasir was, so I understood them, I just didn't know why they were suddenly popular.)
I quite enjoyed the one meme where Prince Harry is reciting the complaint to Oprah, and she's aghast. It worked.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:24 AM on March 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
I quite enjoyed the one meme where Prince Harry is reciting the complaint to Oprah, and she's aghast. It worked.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:24 AM on March 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
My favorite fact about the complaint tablet to Ea-Nasir is that it was found with other tablets detailing complaints against his services in a building that may have been Ea-Nasir's house -- meaning, if true, that he kept the complaints like a writer pinning rejection letters over their desk. That is hardcore.
posted by Cash4Lead at 11:44 AM on March 15, 2021 [15 favorites]
posted by Cash4Lead at 11:44 AM on March 15, 2021 [15 favorites]
it was found with other tablets detailing complaints against his services in a building that may have been Ea-Nasir's house
Uh, I wouldn't move that complaint if I were you. It's a load-bearing tablet.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:50 AM on March 15, 2021 [15 favorites]
Uh, I wouldn't move that complaint if I were you. It's a load-bearing tablet.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:50 AM on March 15, 2021 [15 favorites]
That should be and was a link to the Wikipedia article, yes.
posted by MartinWisse at 11:50 AM on March 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by MartinWisse at 11:50 AM on March 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
The original Lionel Hutz
"Works on Contingency/No Money Down" ->
"Work on Contingency?/No, Money Down!"
was my favorite moment of the first twenty years of the Simpsons. Little did I know that it would become my favorite moment of Sumerian civilization as well.
@yasaman----if no one truly dies until the last time somebody speaks their name, this Ea-nasir cat is set!
posted by adekllny at 12:18 PM on March 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
"Works on Contingency/No Money Down" ->
"Work on Contingency?/No, Money Down!"
was my favorite moment of the first twenty years of the Simpsons. Little did I know that it would become my favorite moment of Sumerian civilization as well.
@yasaman----if no one truly dies until the last time somebody speaks their name, this Ea-nasir cat is set!
posted by adekllny at 12:18 PM on March 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
They do say someone is not dead if their name is still spoken, so Ea-Nasir must be enjoying a rather interesting afterlife.
Not only is there Ea-Nasir fanfic, but he also gets a mention in this Good Omens fic that was actually written in cuneiform.
posted by Fuchsoid at 12:23 PM on March 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
Not only is there Ea-Nasir fanfic, but he also gets a mention in this Good Omens fic that was actually written in cuneiform.
posted by Fuchsoid at 12:23 PM on March 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
These memes are good memes and I will read them.
posted by Going To Maine at 12:37 PM on March 15, 2021
posted by Going To Maine at 12:37 PM on March 15, 2021
I’ve been watching a lot of Irving Finkel YouTube - he’s a scholar at the British Museum and leans way hard into the sharp/daffy persona. I like his discussions of what we can deduce about daily life and belief in the long cuneiform era. Here’s a short straightforward example.
posted by clew at 12:42 PM on March 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by clew at 12:42 PM on March 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
OK, in the 1990s I was half of the shipping desk (along with Denise and then the Freak Chick) for a service bureau in Boston's Back Bay. We kept in touch with the couriers via poor-static-y two-ways radios, because this was The Time Before Cell Phones. We had two bike couriers and a driver. The driver was a guy from...actually, I have no idea where, and we never discussed it, but maybe we should have, because he had a suuuper deep voice and an impenetrable accent.
When he was out doing a pick-up or drop-off, we would hear these eerie pronouncements where the handset would suddenly crackle and then a buzzing booming voice would say, "Ahhhh'm in Waddadown [Watertown], you god annating in Ah'ingt'n [Arlington] or Cambreeeeeeedge." And then he would completely ignore us and just drive back in anyway and lurk for a while without letting us know he was downstairs waiting for another job, which was 1000% annoying.
His name was Nanni.
posted by wenestvedt at 12:42 PM on March 15, 2021 [12 favorites]
When he was out doing a pick-up or drop-off, we would hear these eerie pronouncements where the handset would suddenly crackle and then a buzzing booming voice would say, "Ahhhh'm in Waddadown [Watertown], you god annating in Ah'ingt'n [Arlington] or Cambreeeeeeedge." And then he would completely ignore us and just drive back in anyway and lurk for a while without letting us know he was downstairs waiting for another job, which was 1000% annoying.
His name was Nanni.
posted by wenestvedt at 12:42 PM on March 15, 2021 [12 favorites]
Nice to know that Tumblr users aren't the only ones dunking on Ea-Nasir.
posted by The Ardship of Cambry at 12:53 PM on March 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by The Ardship of Cambry at 12:53 PM on March 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
> "... Sumerian copper merchants delivering substandard ingots"
As is well known, this diatribe against a Sumerian con artist is where we get the term "Con (Sumer) Complaint".
posted by kyrademon at 2:05 PM on March 15, 2021 [8 favorites]
As is well known, this diatribe against a Sumerian con artist is where we get the term "Con (Sumer) Complaint".
posted by kyrademon at 2:05 PM on March 15, 2021 [8 favorites]
Oh, that explains why all the Ea-Nasir jokes this week! I'd heard of it before (bit of an ancient history-stan), but I couldn't figure out why now.
posted by jb at 2:18 PM on March 15, 2021
posted by jb at 2:18 PM on March 15, 2021
But yasaman, think of all his contemporaries who endowed temples or built monuments to themselves, only to have their names come to nothing, and here nearly 4000 years later we are talking about him all over the world.
posted by tavella at 2:35 PM on March 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by tavella at 2:35 PM on March 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
Steamed Humus? It's more of an Al-Bani expression...
posted by chavenet at 3:14 PM on March 15, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by chavenet at 3:14 PM on March 15, 2021 [11 favorites]
I’ve been watching a lot of Irving Finkel YouTube - he’s a scholar at the British Museum and leans way hard into the sharp/daffy persona. I like his discussions of what we can deduce about daily life and belief in the long cuneiform era. Here’s a short straightforward example .
I was thinking about trying to do an Irving Finkel post at some point! There’s a lot of other British Museum video content out there, if people are looking to assemble a list of good videos.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:16 PM on March 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
I was thinking about trying to do an Irving Finkel post at some point! There’s a lot of other British Museum video content out there, if people are looking to assemble a list of good videos.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:16 PM on March 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
"Hello, my name is Mr. Risan-Ae and I come from...someplace in the Fertile Crescent. Yes, that will do..."
posted by PlusDistance at 7:34 PM on March 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by PlusDistance at 7:34 PM on March 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
When it comes to Ea-nasir, all coppers are bastardized
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:39 PM on March 15, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:39 PM on March 15, 2021 [8 favorites]
think of all his contemporaries who endowed temples or built monuments to themselves, only to have their names come to nothing, and here nearly 4000 years later we are talking about him all over the world
He must have been much smarter than his sister Lisa, about whom we know nothing.
posted by obscure simpsons reference at 8:03 PM on March 15, 2021 [8 favorites]
He must have been much smarter than his sister Lisa, about whom we know nothing.
posted by obscure simpsons reference at 8:03 PM on March 15, 2021 [8 favorites]
This is fascinating. Assuming that everything Nanni wrote is factually correct, do we have enough information to conclude that Ea-Nassir was the asshole here? Sure, Nanni thought so - but we've all seen *unjustified* negative reviews on Yelp. Unreasonable people feel their grievances as keenly as reasonable ones - perhaps more so.
Thus, some questions:
1.) Nanni seems to admit that he owed Ea-Nassir a "mina" of silver. Was that a lot? Nanni is dismissive of this "trifling" debt, but should he have been? Would that sort of debt have changed Ea-Nassir's obligations to Nanni, under the law and custom of the day?
2.) It seems like these people had some sort of long-standing business arrangement - in his list of assets entangled with Ea-Nassir's (purported) mischief, he mentioned some sort of inscription the two shared at the temple of Shamash. Was this some sort of debt or investment instrument?
3.) Did the ancient Babylonians have a mechanism to resolve disputes like Nanni's complaint?
posted by Mr. Excellent at 9:06 PM on March 15, 2021
Thus, some questions:
1.) Nanni seems to admit that he owed Ea-Nassir a "mina" of silver. Was that a lot? Nanni is dismissive of this "trifling" debt, but should he have been? Would that sort of debt have changed Ea-Nassir's obligations to Nanni, under the law and custom of the day?
2.) It seems like these people had some sort of long-standing business arrangement - in his list of assets entangled with Ea-Nassir's (purported) mischief, he mentioned some sort of inscription the two shared at the temple of Shamash. Was this some sort of debt or investment instrument?
3.) Did the ancient Babylonians have a mechanism to resolve disputes like Nanni's complaint?
posted by Mr. Excellent at 9:06 PM on March 15, 2021
Well, Ea-nasir and Nanni were Sumerian, which was not yet part of the Babylonian Empire, and their neighbors in Babylon had only turned out the Code of Hammurabi about twenty years prior. I am not an ancient Mesopotamian lawyer, but I looked at a translation of the Code, and assuming that’s any indication of the general legal sentiments of the era and region,
(1) A person owed a debt who remunerated himself by stealing from the debtor would be forced to return the stolen goods and have the debt canceled. I infer from this that a debt was not to be collected by subterfuge in general.
(2) Possibly. The Code is very specific about expectations for securing appropriate contracts and witnesses in a variety of circumstances, with different outcomes in law depending on whether this requirement was followed.
(3) They definitely did, for pretty much exactly this sort of thing. In Babylon, Ea-nasir, as an agent Nanni had paid for a service, would potentially be liable for trebled damages if Nanni called him to account (i.e., sued him).
posted by gelfin at 10:58 PM on March 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
(1) A person owed a debt who remunerated himself by stealing from the debtor would be forced to return the stolen goods and have the debt canceled. I infer from this that a debt was not to be collected by subterfuge in general.
(2) Possibly. The Code is very specific about expectations for securing appropriate contracts and witnesses in a variety of circumstances, with different outcomes in law depending on whether this requirement was followed.
(3) They definitely did, for pretty much exactly this sort of thing. In Babylon, Ea-nasir, as an agent Nanni had paid for a service, would potentially be liable for trebled damages if Nanni called him to account (i.e., sued him).
posted by gelfin at 10:58 PM on March 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Among the other tablets from the same stash are more complaints about bad copper, including three different people weighing in for the same customer. So it seems likely that Nanni's complaint had a valid basis.
Another thing I love about the Ea-nasir story is that he shows up in records in a couple of places, so we know that he at one point was a very successful trader including dealing with the palace, and but that later records suggest he went considerably down market and even had to sell off part of his house to the neighbors.
posted by tavella at 11:45 PM on March 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
Another thing I love about the Ea-nasir story is that he shows up in records in a couple of places, so we know that he at one point was a very successful trader including dealing with the palace, and but that later records suggest he went considerably down market and even had to sell off part of his house to the neighbors.
posted by tavella at 11:45 PM on March 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
think of all his contemporaries who endowed temples or built monuments to themselves, only to have their names come to nothing, and here nearly 4000 years later we are talking about him all over the world
The QI-twitter factoid the other day was that the people who can translate cuneiform are measured in hundreds, while the tablets sitting about awaiting translation are measured in millions. I'm sure these temple-endowers will be named again, when someone reads complaints about their late payment.
posted by pompomtom at 4:28 AM on March 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
The QI-twitter factoid the other day was that the people who can translate cuneiform are measured in hundreds, while the tablets sitting about awaiting translation are measured in millions. I'm sure these temple-endowers will be named again, when someone reads complaints about their late payment.
posted by pompomtom at 4:28 AM on March 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
The QI-twitter factoid the other day was that the people who can translate cuneiform are measured in hundreds, while the tablets sitting about awaiting translation are measured in millions.
To be fair, most of those are unsolicited offers for extended chariot warranties.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 5:38 AM on March 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
To be fair, most of those are unsolicited offers for extended chariot warranties.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 5:38 AM on March 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
To be fair, most of those are unsolicited offers for extended chariot warranties.
And money-laundering requests from Nok potentates offered "with the uttmost trust and confidetialty [sic]"
posted by panglos at 6:55 AM on March 16, 2021
And money-laundering requests from Nok potentates offered "with the uttmost trust and confidetialty [sic]"
posted by panglos at 6:55 AM on March 16, 2021
I am not an ancient Mesopotamian lawyer, but I looked at
You’re among friends — you can use the handy acronym IANAAML.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:51 AM on March 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
You’re among friends — you can use the handy acronym IANAAML.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:51 AM on March 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
Or, if you are someone else's ancient Mesopotamian lawyer and need to maintain attorney-client privilege: IANYAML.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:18 AM on March 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:18 AM on March 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
"I Am Not Yet Another Mark-up Language"? Hey, me neither -- whattaya know!
posted by wenestvedt at 10:21 AM on March 16, 2021
posted by wenestvedt at 10:21 AM on March 16, 2021
The QI-twitter factoid the other day was that the people who can translate cuneiform are measured in hundreds, while the tablets sitting about awaiting translation are measured in millions.
Hmm, it seems like it would be an opportunity for machine translation? Obviously a lot of the bigger monuments and pieces are partial and need a lot of skill, but letters like this tablet seem to be pretty tidy intact little packets that could be scanned and get a first pass translation automatically. It wouldn't be great (though honestly, machine translation has gotten surprisingly good between some languages), but it would help people pick out the most interesting items for further work.
posted by tavella at 11:22 AM on March 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
Hmm, it seems like it would be an opportunity for machine translation? Obviously a lot of the bigger monuments and pieces are partial and need a lot of skill, but letters like this tablet seem to be pretty tidy intact little packets that could be scanned and get a first pass translation automatically. It wouldn't be great (though honestly, machine translation has gotten surprisingly good between some languages), but it would help people pick out the most interesting items for further work.
posted by tavella at 11:22 AM on March 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
For anyone interested in quotidian cuneiform, the Assyrian State Archives are online. This collection of cuneiform translations contains such classics as "Second Rate Logs Won't Do", and "Recalcitrant Assyrian Shepherds" , and my personal favorite, "i have no scribe." That last one initially defied translation because the provincial official who wrote it was barely literate and, as his message explains, had no scribe.
posted by Panjandrum at 5:50 AM on March 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Panjandrum at 5:50 AM on March 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
tavella, there actually are several projects working on AI/machine learning decipherment of cuneiform tablets. I'm not an Assyriologist, nor any other sort of expert on this subject, but I have talked to a couple! In my limited understanding, difficulties arise due to a number of factors:
- Characters can have multiple meanings highly dependent on context, ranging from simply phonetic indicators to independent logograms.
- Cuneiform was a system of writing used to write multiple languages, each bringing their own unique spin to the script. So any translation has to be predicated on knowing what language is getting written, and thosr languages themselves may poorly attested.
- Not only was cuneiform used for multiple languages, it was literally used for thousands of years, with attendant changes along the way.
None of these are insurmountable problems, but they certainly don't make the endeavor to machine translate scripts any easier. Most projects I've heard about focus on a particular corpus written in a known language over a set time period.
posted by Panjandrum at 6:24 AM on March 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
- Characters can have multiple meanings highly dependent on context, ranging from simply phonetic indicators to independent logograms.
- Cuneiform was a system of writing used to write multiple languages, each bringing their own unique spin to the script. So any translation has to be predicated on knowing what language is getting written, and thosr languages themselves may poorly attested.
- Not only was cuneiform used for multiple languages, it was literally used for thousands of years, with attendant changes along the way.
None of these are insurmountable problems, but they certainly don't make the endeavor to machine translate scripts any easier. Most projects I've heard about focus on a particular corpus written in a known language over a set time period.
posted by Panjandrum at 6:24 AM on March 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
FTFCuneiformTablet about the "Second Rate Logs Won't Do": Now, what are the king my lord's orders? If the king orders that they should use them, let the king, my lord, write specifically whether we should use them whole or whether we should cut them in two, and I will duly comply and give them over to the accounting of the palace superintendent.
That's every passive-aggressive "can you put that in writing for my boss" pissy vendor email I have EVER seen.
I hope they fed that dude to a lion or something.
posted by wenestvedt at 8:24 AM on March 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
That's every passive-aggressive "can you put that in writing for my boss" pissy vendor email I have EVER seen.
I hope they fed that dude to a lion or something.
posted by wenestvedt at 8:24 AM on March 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
That last one initially defied translation because the provincial official who wrote it was barely literate
MY VASSAL HAS NO SCRIBE
— THEN HOW DOES HE WRITE TO YOU?
TERRIBLY!
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:05 PM on March 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
MY VASSAL HAS NO SCRIBE
— THEN HOW DOES HE WRITE TO YOU?
TERRIBLY!
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:05 PM on March 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
> Uh, I wouldn't move that complaint if I were you. It's a load-bearing tablet.
"Coming soon! Ea-nasir novelty brickworks!"
Nice thing about cunieform is you can't build an extension on your house from complaint emails.
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:33 PM on March 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
"Coming soon! Ea-nasir novelty brickworks!"
Nice thing about cunieform is you can't build an extension on your house from complaint emails.
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:33 PM on March 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
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posted by a car full of lions at 10:36 AM on March 15, 2021 [3 favorites]