What about us quitters?
December 22, 2021 7:14 AM Subscribe
Our culture fetishizes resilience. The people who persist. The people who persevere. Despite all the odds. Etc. Etc. But what about us quitters? The ones who stopped? The ones who cried uncle? The ones who had enough and just couldn’t anymore? The ones who walked away? Or were forced away and then refused to come back. I don’t think we like those stories because we want to see people triumph over the mess of our society as a roadmap for our own triumphs. But, also, I think our culture fetishizes triumph because it makes it easier to pretend our system isn’t broken. If that person can succeed, we reason, our society is not so bad. But it is so bad. Lyz Lenz on the year of breaking and mending in Men Yell at Me.
Our societal attitudes regarding quitting aren't just broken - they're outright murderous. And I absolutely mean that in the "this belief has a body count" sense - how many women went back to abusers who would kill them out of a fear over "quitting" a relationship? But beyond that, how many people have continued in some activity that had long since stopped being joyful to them out of the attitude that they won't quit? And as got pointed out, the reality is that the actual winners in our society are absolutely quitters, and it's quitting that actually helps them win, because they are no longer sinking time and effort into now-meaningless pursuits.
We need to stop looking at quitting as a moral defect, because frankly, the people who do treat it as such are too often doing it to kneecap others.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:32 AM on December 22, 2021 [37 favorites]
We need to stop looking at quitting as a moral defect, because frankly, the people who do treat it as such are too often doing it to kneecap others.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:32 AM on December 22, 2021 [37 favorites]
I walked away from political activity, teaching and higher education. So glad I did it. Happy now to make a living and post obnoxiously on the web.
posted by No Robots at 7:33 AM on December 22, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by No Robots at 7:33 AM on December 22, 2021 [9 favorites]
The problem, of course, is that sometimes quitting is the right choice, but other times persistence is the right choice, and you rarely know which is which until you've chosen one, which usually turns out to be wrong. Life would be much more tolerable if solutions were universally applicable, but for some reason we're not allowed to have that.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:34 AM on December 22, 2021 [59 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:34 AM on December 22, 2021 [59 favorites]
The problem, of course, is that sometimes quitting is the right choice, but other times persistence is the right choice, and you rarely know which is which until you've chosen one, which usually turns out to be wrong.
That's not the problem at all - the issue isn't that people struggle between choosing between quitting and persevering, it's that they are routinely never given a choice at all. Our society demonizes quitting, at least for the lower classes. (The upper classes, on the other hand, are taught about things like the sunk cost fallacy and why it's important not to chase bad money with good.) And as a result, people routinely continue on against their best interest because they have been taught to never quit, and so they do - until it breaks them.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:58 AM on December 22, 2021 [23 favorites]
That's not the problem at all - the issue isn't that people struggle between choosing between quitting and persevering, it's that they are routinely never given a choice at all. Our society demonizes quitting, at least for the lower classes. (The upper classes, on the other hand, are taught about things like the sunk cost fallacy and why it's important not to chase bad money with good.) And as a result, people routinely continue on against their best interest because they have been taught to never quit, and so they do - until it breaks them.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:58 AM on December 22, 2021 [23 favorites]
So many not-rich people pay contracts it is not in their best interests to pay because they’ve been told that breaking a contract is a moral failing. No rich person has ever conflated morality with finance. Folks need to understand that!
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:02 AM on December 22, 2021 [40 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:02 AM on December 22, 2021 [40 favorites]
Two of the lodestones in my life are AA and the Klingon Empire; the former says "a working definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result each time", and the latter says "Only a fool fights in a burning house."
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:03 AM on December 22, 2021 [20 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:03 AM on December 22, 2021 [20 favorites]
So many not-rich people pay contracts it is not in their best interests to pay because they’ve been told that breaking a contract is a moral failing.
This is one of the big reasons why I detest Dave Ramsey.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:13 AM on December 22, 2021 [19 favorites]
This is one of the big reasons why I detest Dave Ramsey.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:13 AM on December 22, 2021 [19 favorites]
I've quit a few major things in my life: a Ph.D program, a job, a marriage.
For all of them, my main thought in hindsight is "why did I wait so long?!"
posted by humbug at 8:16 AM on December 22, 2021 [28 favorites]
For all of them, my main thought in hindsight is "why did I wait so long?!"
posted by humbug at 8:16 AM on December 22, 2021 [28 favorites]
That's not the problem at all - the issue isn't that people struggle between choosing between quitting and persevering, it's that they are routinely never given a choice at all. Our society demonizes quitting, at least for the lower classes. (The upper classes, on the other hand, are taught about things like the sunk cost fallacy and why it's important not to chase bad money with good.) And as a result, people routinely continue on against their best interest because they have been taught to never quit, and so they do - until it breaks them.
Lately I've been wondering a lot about this. Is it class-based? Is it gendered? My wife and I sometimes get into arguments about it, because she's Team Persistence and I'm Team GTFO and it sometimes bubbles up into our approaches to parenting. We weren't raised all that differently, but I somehow ended up with the mindset that it's absolutely not worth wasting your time on something that you know isn't going to pan out. That's sometimes a helpful attitude, like when your opponent gets all the orange and yellow properties early in the Monopoly game and you just resign graciously rather than spend another miserable hour grinding the game out. It's less helpful when you're trying to stick to an exercise regimen.
posted by Mayor West at 8:17 AM on December 22, 2021 [9 favorites]
Lately I've been wondering a lot about this. Is it class-based? Is it gendered? My wife and I sometimes get into arguments about it, because she's Team Persistence and I'm Team GTFO and it sometimes bubbles up into our approaches to parenting. We weren't raised all that differently, but I somehow ended up with the mindset that it's absolutely not worth wasting your time on something that you know isn't going to pan out. That's sometimes a helpful attitude, like when your opponent gets all the orange and yellow properties early in the Monopoly game and you just resign graciously rather than spend another miserable hour grinding the game out. It's less helpful when you're trying to stick to an exercise regimen.
posted by Mayor West at 8:17 AM on December 22, 2021 [9 favorites]
Come on. She didn't even quit! She took a break from running for a few months after an injury, then started running again!
I'm a quitter. I've quit a lot of things. I've felt a lot of shame about it, because this is a culture of sticking to things until you prevail, even when it's hard, even when it's scary, even when it's really bad for you. If you quit something it's got to be because you've found an even bigger windmill to tilt at. And tell you what, I love Lyz Lenz, she is brave and fearless and funny, but an essay about quitting where you don't actually quit the thing is such a glaring exemplar of that.
Tell you what, lady. Write the essay when you actually give up on running for good and you lose a huge part of your identity and all your running friends cut you off and you have to actually figure out a new way to live your life. Lots of people have done it. I've given up on things that meant a lot to me. I've publicly, visibly failed and not looked back. I've lost friends who thought I gave up too early. Quitting has consequences beyond losing your muscle tone and having to hire a trainer.
This was an essay about thinking you gave up and deciding to try again after all. A perseverance essay. Just what it said it wasn't at the beginning.
Idk. I wouldn't have bothered with this essay if I'd had the spoiler that in the end she starts running again, taking it slow, starting from scratch. I've read that essay too many times.
posted by potrzebie at 8:17 AM on December 22, 2021 [85 favorites]
I'm a quitter. I've quit a lot of things. I've felt a lot of shame about it, because this is a culture of sticking to things until you prevail, even when it's hard, even when it's scary, even when it's really bad for you. If you quit something it's got to be because you've found an even bigger windmill to tilt at. And tell you what, I love Lyz Lenz, she is brave and fearless and funny, but an essay about quitting where you don't actually quit the thing is such a glaring exemplar of that.
Tell you what, lady. Write the essay when you actually give up on running for good and you lose a huge part of your identity and all your running friends cut you off and you have to actually figure out a new way to live your life. Lots of people have done it. I've given up on things that meant a lot to me. I've publicly, visibly failed and not looked back. I've lost friends who thought I gave up too early. Quitting has consequences beyond losing your muscle tone and having to hire a trainer.
This was an essay about thinking you gave up and deciding to try again after all. A perseverance essay. Just what it said it wasn't at the beginning.
Idk. I wouldn't have bothered with this essay if I'd had the spoiler that in the end she starts running again, taking it slow, starting from scratch. I've read that essay too many times.
posted by potrzebie at 8:17 AM on December 22, 2021 [85 favorites]
I have a thirty-year-long psychic scar from a toxic graduate school experience. Sinking deeper into depression, overwhelming alcohol abuse, and physical illness, I quit before earning my Ph.D.
The shame of that decision to quit — agonizingly brought to mind hundreds of times since then — lies in tension with the utter certainty that the two or three more years it would have taken to finish my dissertation would likely have literally killed me.
So, I have a love-hate relationship with quitting. Sometimes it’s the least worst decision.
posted by darkstar at 8:20 AM on December 22, 2021 [26 favorites]
The shame of that decision to quit — agonizingly brought to mind hundreds of times since then — lies in tension with the utter certainty that the two or three more years it would have taken to finish my dissertation would likely have literally killed me.
So, I have a love-hate relationship with quitting. Sometimes it’s the least worst decision.
posted by darkstar at 8:20 AM on December 22, 2021 [26 favorites]
A more relevant example: back in 2008, when the housing market was imploding, I had a coworker who was lamenting the fact that he had bought a house at the top of the bubble, and was now badly underwater. He could swing the payments, barely, but the place needed a ton of work, and he was angry that he was going to spend huge money on renovations on top of decades paying off a mortgage that was significantly more than the value of the house. I immediately suggested he leave the keys on the counter and move out, and let the bank repossess it. Yeah, you ruin your credit for a while, but it'll save you tens of thousands of dollars, and get rid of the looming dread that you're throwing good money after bad.
He was totally appalled by the idea. "We signed a contract. You can't just walk away from that, it's totally immoral." To me it was just a calculated financial move. To many, it's that plus the unforgivable sin of being a quitter. That perspective helped me understand the housing crisis a lot better.
posted by Mayor West at 8:25 AM on December 22, 2021 [21 favorites]
He was totally appalled by the idea. "We signed a contract. You can't just walk away from that, it's totally immoral." To me it was just a calculated financial move. To many, it's that plus the unforgivable sin of being a quitter. That perspective helped me understand the housing crisis a lot better.
posted by Mayor West at 8:25 AM on December 22, 2021 [21 favorites]
Tell you what, lady. Write the essay when you actually give up on running for good and you lose a huge part of your identity and all your running friends cut you off and you have to actually figure out a new way to live your life.
Sorry she … had her own experience?
But Lyz Lenz also left her church and her marriage, so I think she knows some stuff about losing everything.
posted by sock poppet at 8:27 AM on December 22, 2021 [4 favorites]
Sorry she … had her own experience?
But Lyz Lenz also left her church and her marriage, so I think she knows some stuff about losing everything.
posted by sock poppet at 8:27 AM on December 22, 2021 [4 favorites]
She made me a running schedule.
Always so interesting where there is all kind of emotional exhaustion, it is often only physical pain and exhaustion that causes us to realise the steps that must be taken to move past obstacles.
posted by parmanparman at 8:30 AM on December 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
Always so interesting where there is all kind of emotional exhaustion, it is often only physical pain and exhaustion that causes us to realise the steps that must be taken to move past obstacles.
posted by parmanparman at 8:30 AM on December 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
Sock puppet, that was the really weird thing for me! I didn't want to bring it up because I felt it brought in too much outside knowledge, but I know from being a fan that Lenz is a person who knows from quitting, hard quitting. Why write the "look at me, a quitter quitting things" essay and make it about not actually quitting, but taking a break?
posted by potrzebie at 8:33 AM on December 22, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by potrzebie at 8:33 AM on December 22, 2021 [9 favorites]
Fear of not being able to land of your feet, of not having a backup plan, seems to me to have a direct correlation with your psychological comfort with taking risks, which itself is informed by social messaging and learned experience, and so yeah, I definitely see a person's natural comfort in considering quitting seems directly related to your class position (be it economic or gender), with of course individual exceptions, which rather proves the rule, imo.
My biggest quitting story was going against my very asian very newly middle class (thanks to affirmative action) parents in fully dropping out of the university degree of their choice. Those were some fraught years but I'm incredibly lucky in a number of ways that i could go through (heh) with it.
posted by cendawanita at 8:40 AM on December 22, 2021 [11 favorites]
My biggest quitting story was going against my very asian very newly middle class (thanks to affirmative action) parents in fully dropping out of the university degree of their choice. Those were some fraught years but I'm incredibly lucky in a number of ways that i could go through (heh) with it.
posted by cendawanita at 8:40 AM on December 22, 2021 [11 favorites]
Sometimes it’s the least worst decision.
So say we all.
posted by Alterscape at 8:56 AM on December 22, 2021 [8 favorites]
So say we all.
posted by Alterscape at 8:56 AM on December 22, 2021 [8 favorites]
My childhood was marked heavily by the consequences of my father quitting a series of jobs. It was always presented to me as the sole reason for my parents' divorce, and the chief indicator that my dad, for all his good points, was fundamentally unreliable. It was a stigma he never shook off in life. To this day I have a mortal terror of ever quitting a job without another one immediately starting -- and yet, the best day of my life was probably the day I did *exactly that*. I walked out of that godawful toxic moribund job one Friday like it was that scene from Half Baked and everything worked out just fine.
I agree with the oddness of someone who has done a lot of real, hard, permanent quitting choosing a three-month break as her emblematic "quitting". But I think the anecdote about the Instagrammer that she includes illuminates why. Remember: the woman she compared herself to began working out the day after breaking bones in a crash. Why? Because "I don't quit." In this current environment, especially the social media environment, ANY rest, ANY healing is viewed as quitting. So having taken ANY rest, Lenz is a "quitter." Then, the rest of her essay points up the utter wrongness of that interpretation.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:05 AM on December 22, 2021 [16 favorites]
I agree with the oddness of someone who has done a lot of real, hard, permanent quitting choosing a three-month break as her emblematic "quitting". But I think the anecdote about the Instagrammer that she includes illuminates why. Remember: the woman she compared herself to began working out the day after breaking bones in a crash. Why? Because "I don't quit." In this current environment, especially the social media environment, ANY rest, ANY healing is viewed as quitting. So having taken ANY rest, Lenz is a "quitter." Then, the rest of her essay points up the utter wrongness of that interpretation.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:05 AM on December 22, 2021 [16 favorites]
Why write the "look at me, a quitter quitting things" essay and make it about not actually quitting, but taking a break?
Possibly because she is actually contractually obligated to produce an essay every week for substack and she was out of ideas, tbh
posted by sock poppet at 9:07 AM on December 22, 2021 [10 favorites]
Possibly because she is actually contractually obligated to produce an essay every week for substack and she was out of ideas, tbh
posted by sock poppet at 9:07 AM on December 22, 2021 [10 favorites]
(Plus, I think it is essential to recognize that while she returned to running in a general sense, she did in fact -- possibly permanently?-- "quit" her previous running life. She is not the runner she used to be and she is not really trying to be that runner anymore. She's doing a different thing that wears similar clothing.)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:08 AM on December 22, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:08 AM on December 22, 2021 [5 favorites]
A motto that has served me well is “never push on a rope.” If something is too hard you’re probably going about it wrong and maybe it’s just not for you. Usually it’s pushed me to look for a better way but sometimes there are just better things to be doing. Relatedly, I have “embrace the inevitable.” Sometimes you get caught up in other people’s things which are clearly not ending well but will be pursued to the bitter end. Keeping some distance makes the ride more bearable.
posted by sjswitzer at 9:15 AM on December 22, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by sjswitzer at 9:15 AM on December 22, 2021 [9 favorites]
While something of a cliche, someone once observed that a hallmark of insanity is doing the same damn thing over and over again and expecting a different result (referred to by Halloween Jack above). Having good judgment, acquired through experience and paying attention to what goes on in the world and with others, means recognizing and accepting the futility of an activity or strategy even if those things have worked for one before or for others, for reasons both known and unknown. Adapting to new or changing circumstances often requires "quitting" something and moving on.
posted by cool breeze at 9:25 AM on December 22, 2021
posted by cool breeze at 9:25 AM on December 22, 2021
sjswitzer: "A motto that has served me well is “never push on a rope.” "
Mine is: "once you've spotted a runaway train, get out of its way"
posted by chavenet at 9:28 AM on December 22, 2021 [7 favorites]
Mine is: "once you've spotted a runaway train, get out of its way"
posted by chavenet at 9:28 AM on December 22, 2021 [7 favorites]
I have the opposite problem of being too paralyzed to start things. In some ways it works out the same.
posted by emjaybee at 9:33 AM on December 22, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 9:33 AM on December 22, 2021 [8 favorites]
No rich person has ever conflated morality with finance.
Maybe, but it would be more accurate to say that rich people simply don't believe that moral codes apply to them, an attitude that is defined by privilege, which is a related but larger problem.
posted by klanawa at 9:41 AM on December 22, 2021 [5 favorites]
Maybe, but it would be more accurate to say that rich people simply don't believe that moral codes apply to them, an attitude that is defined by privilege, which is a related but larger problem.
posted by klanawa at 9:41 AM on December 22, 2021 [5 favorites]
There is another metaphor for “quitting” that may be of value. The Fool card in the Tarot deck. The usual image is a person about to blindly step off a cliff. A warning? Not necessarily. It depicts the “leap of faith,” just jumping off into the unknown to see what might happen. It’s more a going and not a quitting. There were a couple of times when I chose to do this. The first time when I chose to just run off by myself to Britain with no real plans or destination. The first time I traveled by myself. I learned a lot from that experience. I came back and chose to end a lot of stuff that made me run away in the first place. These actions also included jumping into the unknown again and from my first try I learned to trust the universe. It wasn’t all that wonderful, I got hit by a car, but taking those leaps gave me some needed self-confidence. And the faith that the universe isn’t out to get me. (Though current events is really testing that faith - politics and the plague.) So maybe look at it as consciously leaping into the unknown to see what happens. Scary, but also potentially very positive.
posted by njohnson23 at 9:52 AM on December 22, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by njohnson23 at 9:52 AM on December 22, 2021 [7 favorites]
"a working definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result each time"
Few common sayings annoy me more than this one. So...we shouldn't practice anything? We shouldn't try to improve at anything? It is insane to strike out and then think you are going to get a hit the next time? It is insane to think you will be able to play some piece on the piano because you weren't able to the last time?
I mean, I get the point that this saying is trying to convey. It is one of those expressions that initially sounds like it makes sense and is full of wisdom. However, when you actually examine what it is saying, it makes no sense at all.
"Timmy -- the next time you fold the clothes, do it so there are no wrinkles in the shirts."
"But I already tried to fold the clothes without wrinkling the shirts. What you are asking me to do is the very definition of insanity!"
posted by flarbuse at 10:45 AM on December 22, 2021 [13 favorites]
Few common sayings annoy me more than this one. So...we shouldn't practice anything? We shouldn't try to improve at anything? It is insane to strike out and then think you are going to get a hit the next time? It is insane to think you will be able to play some piece on the piano because you weren't able to the last time?
I mean, I get the point that this saying is trying to convey. It is one of those expressions that initially sounds like it makes sense and is full of wisdom. However, when you actually examine what it is saying, it makes no sense at all.
"Timmy -- the next time you fold the clothes, do it so there are no wrinkles in the shirts."
"But I already tried to fold the clothes without wrinkling the shirts. What you are asking me to do is the very definition of insanity!"
posted by flarbuse at 10:45 AM on December 22, 2021 [13 favorites]
Few common sayings annoy me more than this one. So...we shouldn't practice anything? We shouldn't try to improve at anything? It is insane to strike out and then think you are going to get a hit the next time? It is insane to think you will be able to play some piece on the piano because you weren't able to the last time?
In none of those situations are you doing the same thing you did before. If you're practicing something, each time you perform the action you're doing so with more experience to better guide you. Every time you take another swing in baseball, you're hopefully doing it with some better idea of what the pitcher's going to throw at you, based on what's already come before.
If you're doing the same thing and all the conditions are the same and you're learning nothing from each try, and you're expecting a different outcome at some point? Yeah, that's not leading anywhere productive.
posted by chrominance at 10:51 AM on December 22, 2021 [9 favorites]
In none of those situations are you doing the same thing you did before. If you're practicing something, each time you perform the action you're doing so with more experience to better guide you. Every time you take another swing in baseball, you're hopefully doing it with some better idea of what the pitcher's going to throw at you, based on what's already come before.
If you're doing the same thing and all the conditions are the same and you're learning nothing from each try, and you're expecting a different outcome at some point? Yeah, that's not leading anywhere productive.
posted by chrominance at 10:51 AM on December 22, 2021 [9 favorites]
Few common sayings annoy me more than this one. So...we shouldn't practice anything? We shouldn't try to improve at anything? It is insane to strike out and then think you are going to get a hit the next time? It is insane to think you will be able to play some piece on the piano because you weren't able to the last time?
The point of practice is to not do the same thing over and over, but to discover the flaws in your practice that are leading to diminished performance, and correct them. The point of the saying is that if you never change your approach, it is crazy to expect it to suddenly work.
Maybe, but it would be more accurate to say that rich people simply don't believe that moral codes apply to them, an attitude that is defined by privilege, which is a related but larger problem.
Except that when it comes to finance, they're absolutely right - debt exists outside of morality, which is why we have contracts defining the obligations of each party and how they may exit the contract. Also, a lot of the discussion about the moral aspects of debt these days focus purely on the debtor, and never on the creditor - so my position there is "if you are going to argue for debt as a moral obligation, let's talk Jubilee and anti-usury laws."
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:56 AM on December 22, 2021 [9 favorites]
The point of practice is to not do the same thing over and over, but to discover the flaws in your practice that are leading to diminished performance, and correct them. The point of the saying is that if you never change your approach, it is crazy to expect it to suddenly work.
Maybe, but it would be more accurate to say that rich people simply don't believe that moral codes apply to them, an attitude that is defined by privilege, which is a related but larger problem.
Except that when it comes to finance, they're absolutely right - debt exists outside of morality, which is why we have contracts defining the obligations of each party and how they may exit the contract. Also, a lot of the discussion about the moral aspects of debt these days focus purely on the debtor, and never on the creditor - so my position there is "if you are going to argue for debt as a moral obligation, let's talk Jubilee and anti-usury laws."
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:56 AM on December 22, 2021 [9 favorites]
Few common sayings annoy me more than this one. So...we shouldn't practice anything? We shouldn't try to improve at anything? It is insane to strike out and then think you are going to get a hit the next time? It is insane to think you will be able to play some piece on the piano because you weren't able to the last time?
No... if you have a reasonable expectation of success. "Heart and Soul" is well within the capability of even a beginner; Rachmaninoff No. 3, probably not so much. And I specifically said that within the context of AA for a reason; absent some truly spectacular advance in the neuropharmacology of addiction, I will never be able to be a normal drinker, and believe me I tried time beyond counting to do so.
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:00 AM on December 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
No... if you have a reasonable expectation of success. "Heart and Soul" is well within the capability of even a beginner; Rachmaninoff No. 3, probably not so much. And I specifically said that within the context of AA for a reason; absent some truly spectacular advance in the neuropharmacology of addiction, I will never be able to be a normal drinker, and believe me I tried time beyond counting to do so.
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:00 AM on December 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
Come on. She didn't even quit! She took a break from running for a few months after an injury, then started running again!
Mefites display their superior quitting skills by not even clicking on the article.
posted by betweenthebars at 11:40 AM on December 22, 2021 [11 favorites]
Mefites display their superior quitting skills by not even clicking on the article.
posted by betweenthebars at 11:40 AM on December 22, 2021 [11 favorites]
I think that quitting gets tied up with morality in part because we start learning about quitting when we're children. It still sounds like a bad word to me, something shouted across a playground or barked out by a teacher. To be fair, most children are likely to give up if a task is hard and there's an easier alternative, whether that's getting their mom to tie their shoes or playing video games instead of the piano. So in the absence of corporal punishment, grownups employ shame. And because American society is the way it is about work and honor, the shame sticks.
I've quit a lot of things. Some I regret; some I don't; some I wish I had quit long before. I have few good lessons to offer from my life, but one is that you shouldn't fear quitting for its own sake.
posted by Countess Elena at 11:41 AM on December 22, 2021 [5 favorites]
I've quit a lot of things. Some I regret; some I don't; some I wish I had quit long before. I have few good lessons to offer from my life, but one is that you shouldn't fear quitting for its own sake.
posted by Countess Elena at 11:41 AM on December 22, 2021 [5 favorites]
In Don Quixote, there is a character of a beautiful woman named Marcela. A goatherd tells Don Quixote that Marcela was a rich orphan who gave up her life of wealth to become a shepherdess. She charms men, then refuses to marry them. A kind of proto-cock blocker, if you will. Later, after another character reads a poem about Marcela, praising her beauty but lamenting her cruelty, Marcela appears. She just shows up, right next to the travelers, and sets the record straight. She doesn’t want this attention. She doesn’t want her suitors. She never charmed anyone. She can’t help it if she’s pretty, she says, but she doesn’t want the attention, leave her alone. She’s sick of being called cruel and murderous, when her only crime is existing.
I have never read Don Quixote and now I might just for the few passages about Marcela. It did not occur to me to warn y'all that the author did not quit running for good. I'm skeptical that the usual perseverance essay includes stuff like this:
I think our culture fetishizes triumph because it makes it easier to pretend our system isn’t broken.
Anyway, I thought there was a lot to like about this essay but clearly, your mileage may vary.
posted by Bella Donna at 11:44 AM on December 22, 2021 [5 favorites]
I have never read Don Quixote and now I might just for the few passages about Marcela. It did not occur to me to warn y'all that the author did not quit running for good. I'm skeptical that the usual perseverance essay includes stuff like this:
I think our culture fetishizes triumph because it makes it easier to pretend our system isn’t broken.
Anyway, I thought there was a lot to like about this essay but clearly, your mileage may vary.
posted by Bella Donna at 11:44 AM on December 22, 2021 [5 favorites]
Nobody else going to rag on Grit(tm)?!? Well ... meh, then! [pouts]
[ceases pouting, meanders off a while later]
posted by k3ninho at 11:45 AM on December 22, 2021
[ceases pouting, meanders off a while later]
posted by k3ninho at 11:45 AM on December 22, 2021
That framing of "I'm not not who I once was" will help me, thank you Bella Donna.
posted by k3ninho at 11:46 AM on December 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by k3ninho at 11:46 AM on December 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
The I Never Quit mindset it always accompanied with the need to tell everyone, it seems. Do these no quitters conveniently forget the things they do quit? It’s more likely they’re living in denial, or just lack self-awareness (or lying).
posted by waving at 11:50 AM on December 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by waving at 11:50 AM on December 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
I think this essay raises good questions, and I'm a fan of the writer. But it remains trapped in the American Resilience genre:
- sustain Hardship
- Quit
- try to start again, Fail/Flounder
- find guru who hands you the Wisdom
- keep going and Triumph, then Reflect
and I do find that disappointing. Especially, I have to say, the guru part. Like, I accept that this is Lenz's experience and that she doesn't owe me the story I wanted to read instead, but I am kind of disappointed that it's once again the coach that points out that going slow (and fast, intervals) is not the same as quitting or failing. This is what keeps people going after snake oil solutions at times. (Of course at other times, you do need the help and support.)
posted by warriorqueen at 11:50 AM on December 22, 2021 [8 favorites]
- sustain Hardship
- Quit
- try to start again, Fail/Flounder
- find guru who hands you the Wisdom
- keep going and Triumph, then Reflect
and I do find that disappointing. Especially, I have to say, the guru part. Like, I accept that this is Lenz's experience and that she doesn't owe me the story I wanted to read instead, but I am kind of disappointed that it's once again the coach that points out that going slow (and fast, intervals) is not the same as quitting or failing. This is what keeps people going after snake oil solutions at times. (Of course at other times, you do need the help and support.)
posted by warriorqueen at 11:50 AM on December 22, 2021 [8 favorites]
The problem with "grit" is in the very word we use for it, which we forget is a metaphor. Grit gets into the works and wears them down. People who have to rely on grit, on their own pure resilience, often fall apart spectacularly, either all at once or a bit every day when the public eye is off them.
posted by Countess Elena at 11:52 AM on December 22, 2021 [18 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 11:52 AM on December 22, 2021 [18 favorites]
The point of practice is to not do the same thing over and over, but to discover the flaws in your practice that are leading to diminished performance, and correct them.
I mean, ideally, yes absolutely. As an educator, however, I can attest that common practice often does not live up to the ideal in this respect.
Which is partially due to students being uncomfortable taking intellectual risks, which is tied in with fear of failure, which has some connections to cultural attitudes around quitting. But I think it is useful to discuss cultural views on quitting within the context of risk, cultural views on what sort of risks are encouraged and discouraged, and who is able to take what sorts of risks. (Eg. sometimes quitting something is a risk, while other times perseverance is the risk. And while I agree that the expression about doing the same thing over and expecting different results can be a bit trite or lacking in nuance, the distinction between bullheaded perseverance without learning and productive persistence is quite significant and important. There’s also important distinctions to be made, I think, between potentially productive risks and stupid pointless risks. In sum, quitting and risk are both lands of contrasts.)
posted by eviemath at 11:54 AM on December 22, 2021 [5 favorites]
I mean, ideally, yes absolutely. As an educator, however, I can attest that common practice often does not live up to the ideal in this respect.
Which is partially due to students being uncomfortable taking intellectual risks, which is tied in with fear of failure, which has some connections to cultural attitudes around quitting. But I think it is useful to discuss cultural views on quitting within the context of risk, cultural views on what sort of risks are encouraged and discouraged, and who is able to take what sorts of risks. (Eg. sometimes quitting something is a risk, while other times perseverance is the risk. And while I agree that the expression about doing the same thing over and expecting different results can be a bit trite or lacking in nuance, the distinction between bullheaded perseverance without learning and productive persistence is quite significant and important. There’s also important distinctions to be made, I think, between potentially productive risks and stupid pointless risks. In sum, quitting and risk are both lands of contrasts.)
posted by eviemath at 11:54 AM on December 22, 2021 [5 favorites]
The idea of a practice really is doing the same thing over and over? But, like, as the Buddhists say (I think), you never cross the same river twice. I have a couple practices and I’ve come to really love and respect the journey in all of them. Sometimes you do need to stop for a while. Running is one of my practices and I did have a couple years where it was really minimal, and now I’ve picked it up again in a deeper way. Maybe this essay should be re-framed a bit, “quitting” feels like a different word than what she’s writing about, but I think it had some good things to say.
posted by jeweled accumulation at 12:11 PM on December 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by jeweled accumulation at 12:11 PM on December 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
So - our company decided to do three labor intensive projects right now, the week before and during xmas (and probably after).
Things have been looking up, but right now, the sheer call volume, has me adding to every memo "HIRE MORE (my department")" .
The company was doing poorly for years, got a new CEO, and like i said things looked like they were turning around, but here we go again, short term thinking. In the meantime it's fucking over a lot of customers and COSTING more of labor by creating way too long waits for service and shit. Amongst other issues.
They fucking want those of us on the bottom rung of seniority ladder who are working holiday to "send in photos of you for xmas so we can all see the happy cheer" like, bruh, no. Don't force us to work on Xmas eve, and pretend like we should smile.
"Not only will you eat shit, you will like it, and send pics to prove you like" talk about bullshit degrading. Maybe maaaaaaaybe if you weren't doing this massive fucking blowout right now I might, but as I watch you slip into the old patterns, I am giving up on quality control. They want Quantity? They can have their fucking quantity. I DRIVE quantity even when we were focusing on quality, but this is stupid quantity so yeah.
"I quit (giving a shit) until you fuckers can actually manage the volume of shit we're dealing with you can drive this company beyond human reasonability into shitty services yet again, because capitalism short term thinking is apparently more important than actually building a good service, and DEFINITELY not giving a shit about us - I'm on board for striking for 150% raise, frankly. fuck these clowns. I'm actually gonna look for a new job, because of this. I see no future if this is the same continued attitude. "
(Uh, thanks for subbing to my axe-grind blog but also - I relate so hard, so I think it's a fair comment ;))
posted by symbioid at 12:26 PM on December 22, 2021 [11 favorites]
Things have been looking up, but right now, the sheer call volume, has me adding to every memo "HIRE MORE (my department")" .
The company was doing poorly for years, got a new CEO, and like i said things looked like they were turning around, but here we go again, short term thinking. In the meantime it's fucking over a lot of customers and COSTING more of labor by creating way too long waits for service and shit. Amongst other issues.
They fucking want those of us on the bottom rung of seniority ladder who are working holiday to "send in photos of you for xmas so we can all see the happy cheer" like, bruh, no. Don't force us to work on Xmas eve, and pretend like we should smile.
"Not only will you eat shit, you will like it, and send pics to prove you like" talk about bullshit degrading. Maybe maaaaaaaybe if you weren't doing this massive fucking blowout right now I might, but as I watch you slip into the old patterns, I am giving up on quality control. They want Quantity? They can have their fucking quantity. I DRIVE quantity even when we were focusing on quality, but this is stupid quantity so yeah.
"I quit (giving a shit) until you fuckers can actually manage the volume of shit we're dealing with you can drive this company beyond human reasonability into shitty services yet again, because capitalism short term thinking is apparently more important than actually building a good service, and DEFINITELY not giving a shit about us - I'm on board for striking for 150% raise, frankly. fuck these clowns. I'm actually gonna look for a new job, because of this. I see no future if this is the same continued attitude. "
(Uh, thanks for subbing to my axe-grind blog but also - I relate so hard, so I think it's a fair comment ;))
posted by symbioid at 12:26 PM on December 22, 2021 [11 favorites]
Also - I very much am not "a quitter" (not because I don't want to, but because I have no fucking self-confidence to believe anyone will hire me because I suck at interviews) and have always been let go (that also plays a part, with unemployment. Quitting is a privilege - you need to have money in case you don't have a new job (of course this is more than just jobs, but all things that give you no pleasure, but I'm speaking job because that's what's killed any appetite of my creative ability by killing my brain the past 4 years. I have no life, and every day passes I get old and no tolerance for this bullshit, but what else exists? The bullshit that's less stinky on the other side of fence?")
posted by symbioid at 12:28 PM on December 22, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by symbioid at 12:28 PM on December 22, 2021 [5 favorites]
symbioid, that sucks so hard. Hang in there. I would totally subscribe to your axe-grind blog.
posted by Bella Donna at 12:39 PM on December 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 12:39 PM on December 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
Oh hey - for some reason that Drive image of : NEVER Do Your Best QUIT
from DIrty Old Town is violating my networks policies on "sharing". IDK if this is just some weird mess up in the corp policies or the link is somehow trying to "share" somehow (not sure how/why" but maybe someone can examine to make sure it's not doing something weird?
(I'm guessing is' just my shit org as implied above - but figured I'd pass on in case others have "corp policy violation" of "sharing" (which I'm not doing anything, not downloading just looking at it)
posted by symbioid at 12:41 PM on December 22, 2021
from DIrty Old Town is violating my networks policies on "sharing". IDK if this is just some weird mess up in the corp policies or the link is somehow trying to "share" somehow (not sure how/why" but maybe someone can examine to make sure it's not doing something weird?
(I'm guessing is' just my shit org as implied above - but figured I'd pass on in case others have "corp policy violation" of "sharing" (which I'm not doing anything, not downloading just looking at it)
posted by symbioid at 12:41 PM on December 22, 2021
symbioid, that just means that your admins have turned off the ability of external users to share things with you.
posted by sagc at 1:07 PM on December 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by sagc at 1:07 PM on December 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
I had a boss who loved to say ‘if you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you always got’. I wanted to tell him that to many of his subordinates, that would read as a promise - and moreover, one he couldn’t make good on.
posted by Phanx at 2:00 PM on December 22, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by Phanx at 2:00 PM on December 22, 2021 [5 favorites]
To be fair, most children are likely to give up if a task is hard and there's an easier alternative, whether that's getting their mom to tie their shoes or playing video games instead of the piano.
I don’t think this is the natural default state of children. Like, have you seen how babies and toddlers keep trying things again and again and again and again and so on? I think that we do teach children a fear of failure and of risk taking early on, and then teach them the whole “don’t quit” ethos as a counterbalance? So we end up imposing these negative external motivations, instead of nurturing their positive internal motivations. I imagine that parental neglect and abuse make this even worse, since risk taking requires having a feeling of security, such as one gets from an emotionally healthy, caring family.
posted by eviemath at 2:02 PM on December 22, 2021 [7 favorites]
I don’t think this is the natural default state of children. Like, have you seen how babies and toddlers keep trying things again and again and again and again and so on? I think that we do teach children a fear of failure and of risk taking early on, and then teach them the whole “don’t quit” ethos as a counterbalance? So we end up imposing these negative external motivations, instead of nurturing their positive internal motivations. I imagine that parental neglect and abuse make this even worse, since risk taking requires having a feeling of security, such as one gets from an emotionally healthy, caring family.
posted by eviemath at 2:02 PM on December 22, 2021 [7 favorites]
That's a good point, eviemath. I don't know enough about early childhood to have a really informed opinion. Now that I think about when I was frustrated and bored as a child, it was about things that never seemed to have any reward to them. My math was almost never right, my room was almost never clean enough, and when it was, there was no reward because that was how it was supposed to be anyway.
I have always been really irritated by that "insanity" saying, so I looked into it. Turns out it probably came out of AA or NA in the '80s. That sounds about right. It's a piece of folk "wisdom" that seems relevant to a stressful situation in a tough-love sort of way.
posted by Countess Elena at 2:39 PM on December 22, 2021 [4 favorites]
I have always been really irritated by that "insanity" saying, so I looked into it. Turns out it probably came out of AA or NA in the '80s. That sounds about right. It's a piece of folk "wisdom" that seems relevant to a stressful situation in a tough-love sort of way.
posted by Countess Elena at 2:39 PM on December 22, 2021 [4 favorites]
well, i quit my job last month after 22 years and am getting social security
i just couldn't justify working 60 plus hours a week while i'm also trying to take care of an autistic daughter - on paper, it's a really questionable thing for a 64 year old man with health problems to be doing - in reality, it turned out to be exhausting and after a nasty conflict with someone, i rage-resigned and realized a couple of days later that although it may have looked like an impulsive decision, i had more than enough justification to do it - ans so i confirmed my resignation and now i don't have a job
and i'm still feeling tired and uninspired 3 weeks after my last day - i didn't realize it, but i was wearing myself out trying to abide their insane work schedule and i really wouldn't have lasted much longer without serious consequences - and i went down the work until you go splat and end up in the hospital route 6 years ago and didn't feel like repeating it
and so i quit - it goes against my nature to do it, but maybe my nature's changed
sometimes you have to quit
and sometimes, if you don't quit, worse things than quitting can happen
it's funny, but where i was expecting some negative feedback from my family, all i got was the sense that they were wondering what took me so long to do it
my daughter and i deserved better, so i quit
posted by pyramid termite at 4:43 PM on December 22, 2021 [23 favorites]
i just couldn't justify working 60 plus hours a week while i'm also trying to take care of an autistic daughter - on paper, it's a really questionable thing for a 64 year old man with health problems to be doing - in reality, it turned out to be exhausting and after a nasty conflict with someone, i rage-resigned and realized a couple of days later that although it may have looked like an impulsive decision, i had more than enough justification to do it - ans so i confirmed my resignation and now i don't have a job
and i'm still feeling tired and uninspired 3 weeks after my last day - i didn't realize it, but i was wearing myself out trying to abide their insane work schedule and i really wouldn't have lasted much longer without serious consequences - and i went down the work until you go splat and end up in the hospital route 6 years ago and didn't feel like repeating it
and so i quit - it goes against my nature to do it, but maybe my nature's changed
sometimes you have to quit
and sometimes, if you don't quit, worse things than quitting can happen
it's funny, but where i was expecting some negative feedback from my family, all i got was the sense that they were wondering what took me so long to do it
my daughter and i deserved better, so i quit
posted by pyramid termite at 4:43 PM on December 22, 2021 [23 favorites]
my daughter and i deserved better, so i quit
good! congratulations!
posted by sock poppet at 6:12 PM on December 22, 2021
good! congratulations!
posted by sock poppet at 6:12 PM on December 22, 2021
All things pass. Quitting is all about timing. Knowing when a project or pathway has failed, or at least run its useful course, accepting it and cutting your losses as cleanly as you can, then moving on in a different direction.
It is one of the most important life skills, that applies across the board, from a burnt piece of toast to a partner or career.
posted by Pouteria at 6:50 PM on December 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
It is one of the most important life skills, that applies across the board, from a burnt piece of toast to a partner or career.
posted by Pouteria at 6:50 PM on December 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
Why write the "look at me, a quitter quitting things" essay and make it about not actually quitting, but taking a break?
Just because you didn't actually quit something, you'd give up on writing an essay about quitting? Sounds like you've got a quitter's mentality.
posted by AlSweigart at 6:58 PM on December 22, 2021 [3 favorites]
Just because you didn't actually quit something, you'd give up on writing an essay about quitting? Sounds like you've got a quitter's mentality.
posted by AlSweigart at 6:58 PM on December 22, 2021 [3 favorites]
Lol I sent this article to my mother, who replied with
Mom: Remember when your 5th grade teacher wrote 'quitters never win' on your report card?
Me: Oh yeah.
Mom: When I read it out loud you said "yeah but winners are mostly jerks"
Me: ...that tracks.
Mom: That teacher fucking sucked.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:21 PM on December 22, 2021 [26 favorites]
Mom: Remember when your 5th grade teacher wrote 'quitters never win' on your report card?
Me: Oh yeah.
Mom: When I read it out loud you said "yeah but winners are mostly jerks"
Me: ...that tracks.
Mom: That teacher fucking sucked.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:21 PM on December 22, 2021 [26 favorites]
@We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese: killer username, btw, and also spot fucking on about winners being jerks. What an asshole.
posted by kkar at 9:51 PM on December 22, 2021
posted by kkar at 9:51 PM on December 22, 2021
"You can just leave". Always remember that.
In the middle of an unfolding disaster? Just run.
Trapped in a bad job or bad relationship? Just walk away.
There's no shame. Better to regret something you did than something you didn't do.
If more people realised this then the monsters of this world wouldn't be getting away with so much. Sack it off. Jog on.
posted by Acey at 6:31 AM on December 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
In the middle of an unfolding disaster? Just run.
Trapped in a bad job or bad relationship? Just walk away.
There's no shame. Better to regret something you did than something you didn't do.
If more people realised this then the monsters of this world wouldn't be getting away with so much. Sack it off. Jog on.
posted by Acey at 6:31 AM on December 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
I found this piece to be a very abled perspective - she has an injury and gets depressed and then takes a break from running but goes back to it, I'm not really reading this as a piece about quitting something.
posted by bile and syntax at 9:40 AM on December 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by bile and syntax at 9:40 AM on December 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
I actually briefly lived next door to Evan Harris, who founded a zine all about Quitting and it was kind of a thing for a while.....until she quit doing it. I think she has probably cornered the market on analyzing the power and value of Quitting.
Here's her and Ira Glass when he covered this on This American Life.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:34 AM on December 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
Here's her and Ira Glass when he covered this on This American Life.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:34 AM on December 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
A zine about quitting...which she quit doing.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:35 PM on December 23, 2021
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:35 PM on December 23, 2021
Yep. :-) She did do a couple books, and then quit writing - and I read an interview somewhere where she acknowledges the irony. But also kind of leans into it, you know? It's like the whole philosophy about quitting, from what I get from her, is more about how "quitting" is more like "being willing to acknowledge when you're done with something and you're moving on to the next thing". And - that's what she did.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:26 PM on December 23, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:26 PM on December 23, 2021 [4 favorites]
Trapped in a bad job or bad relationship? Just walk away.
WRT the latter, I have it on good authority that there must be at least fifty ways of doing so.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:10 PM on December 23, 2021 [8 favorites]
WRT the latter, I have it on good authority that there must be at least fifty ways of doing so.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:10 PM on December 23, 2021 [8 favorites]
Yes, but it has always bothered me that the songwriter did not fully enumerate all fifty. But what can you expect from a quitter.
posted by darkstar at 9:24 PM on December 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by darkstar at 9:24 PM on December 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
Filk opportunity! (The rest of the fifty ways. )
posted by clew at 10:37 AM on December 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by clew at 10:37 AM on December 24, 2021 [1 favorite]
Hmm…the canonical references in this Ode to Quitting seem to be…
1. Slip out the back, Jack
2. Make a new plan, Stan
3. Don’t need to be coy, Roy (presumably arguing for a straightforward breakup)
4. Jump on the Bus, Gus
5. Drop off the key, Lee
From which observation, I make a few tentative hypotheses:
First, having enumerated only five actual ways to leave your lover, the singer has in this case quit only 10% through the task! One wonders if he was overstating the number of actual ways he knew about…
Second, this advice all seems to be directed at stereotypically Western, male names. So I’m beginning to think the song might be better named “Five Ways for a Western Guy to Leave Your Lover.”
Alternately, we may need some more inclusive examples. I propose a few possibles:
6. Hang up the phone, Joan
7. Get outta the scene, Jean
8. Just walk away, Ray
9. Sneak out at night, Dwight
10. Head for the door, Noor
11. Make a new pal, Sal
12. Run to the car, Dar
13. Start a new fling, Jing
14. Find a new jazz man, Yasmine
15. Just say “So Long”, Gyeong
16. Pretend that you’re dead, Fred
17. Tell them “See ya”, Priya
18. Hop on your scooter, Uter
19. Get yourself clear, Abeer
20. Dump that playa, Zeya
21. Head for the gate, Kate
and
22. Maybe just leave, Steve?
posted by darkstar at 1:01 PM on December 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
1. Slip out the back, Jack
2. Make a new plan, Stan
3. Don’t need to be coy, Roy (presumably arguing for a straightforward breakup)
4. Jump on the Bus, Gus
5. Drop off the key, Lee
From which observation, I make a few tentative hypotheses:
First, having enumerated only five actual ways to leave your lover, the singer has in this case quit only 10% through the task! One wonders if he was overstating the number of actual ways he knew about…
Second, this advice all seems to be directed at stereotypically Western, male names. So I’m beginning to think the song might be better named “Five Ways for a Western Guy to Leave Your Lover.”
Alternately, we may need some more inclusive examples. I propose a few possibles:
6. Hang up the phone, Joan
7. Get outta the scene, Jean
8. Just walk away, Ray
9. Sneak out at night, Dwight
10. Head for the door, Noor
11. Make a new pal, Sal
12. Run to the car, Dar
13. Start a new fling, Jing
14. Find a new jazz man, Yasmine
15. Just say “So Long”, Gyeong
16. Pretend that you’re dead, Fred
17. Tell them “See ya”, Priya
18. Hop on your scooter, Uter
19. Get yourself clear, Abeer
20. Dump that playa, Zeya
21. Head for the gate, Kate
and
22. Maybe just leave, Steve?
posted by darkstar at 1:01 PM on December 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
I remember years and years ago there was a bit in a magazine (maybe Spy?) that was "The Other 45 Ways To Leave Your Lover."
The ones I remember were:
Tell her you're gay, Ray
Tell her you're straight, Kate
and
Just be yourself, Dick
posted by Daily Alice at 2:40 PM on December 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
The ones I remember were:
Tell her you're gay, Ray
Tell her you're straight, Kate
and
Just be yourself, Dick
posted by Daily Alice at 2:40 PM on December 24, 2021 [3 favorites]
Some counternarratives:
“Fail fast” - Eric Reid
“Strategic breach” - Richard Posner
And a tangent, but a personal favorite, a Japanese service that will quit your job for you. (Apparently there is a lot of paperwork.)
posted by ec2y at 3:22 PM on December 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
“Fail fast” - Eric Reid
“Strategic breach” - Richard Posner
And a tangent, but a personal favorite, a Japanese service that will quit your job for you. (Apparently there is a lot of paperwork.)
posted by ec2y at 3:22 PM on December 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
Come on. She didn't even quit! She took a break from running for a few months after an injury, then started running again!
This is every single runner's eventual story. As you age you will get injured and be forced to take recovery breaks. You'll get slower and slower. You either make peace with it and carry on or you quit.
The exceptions to the inexorable decline of running performance are so rare they become man bites dog news stories.
posted by srboisvert at 6:44 AM on December 26, 2021
This is every single runner's eventual story. As you age you will get injured and be forced to take recovery breaks. You'll get slower and slower. You either make peace with it and carry on or you quit.
The exceptions to the inexorable decline of running performance are so rare they become man bites dog news stories.
posted by srboisvert at 6:44 AM on December 26, 2021
Few common sayings annoy me more than this one. So...we shouldn't practice anything? We shouldn't try to improve at anything? It is insane to strike out and then think you are going to get a hit the next time? It is insane to think you will be able to play some piece on the piano because you weren't able to the last time?
In none of those situations are you doing the same thing you did before. If you're practicing something, each time you perform the action you're doing so with more experience to better guide you. Every time you take another swing in baseball, you're hopefully doing it with some better idea of what the pitcher's going to throw at you, based on what's already come before.
If you're doing the same thing and all the conditions are the same and you're learning nothing from each try, and you're expecting a different outcome at some point? Yeah, that's not leading anywhere productive.
Yes, iterative refinement of a task, even if only in small increments, is vastly different than blind, exact repetition. One is an upward spiral, the other is a circle.
posted by Philofacts at 7:23 AM on December 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
In none of those situations are you doing the same thing you did before. If you're practicing something, each time you perform the action you're doing so with more experience to better guide you. Every time you take another swing in baseball, you're hopefully doing it with some better idea of what the pitcher's going to throw at you, based on what's already come before.
If you're doing the same thing and all the conditions are the same and you're learning nothing from each try, and you're expecting a different outcome at some point? Yeah, that's not leading anywhere productive.
Yes, iterative refinement of a task, even if only in small increments, is vastly different than blind, exact repetition. One is an upward spiral, the other is a circle.
posted by Philofacts at 7:23 AM on December 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
I thought this was an article about quilting and I came in to say you can be a quilter and still be resilient but I changed my mind.
posted by storybored at 4:20 PM on December 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by storybored at 4:20 PM on December 28, 2021 [2 favorites]
"Doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result" - welcome to parenting.
I have a theory, which as far as I am aware, is mine - that a significant portion of the conversations that you have with your children is remembering to insert the key social phrases at the right time -"Be careful", "Inside voices", "Would you like it if someone did that to you?", etc
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 3:33 PM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
I have a theory, which as far as I am aware, is mine - that a significant portion of the conversations that you have with your children is remembering to insert the key social phrases at the right time -"Be careful", "Inside voices", "Would you like it if someone did that to you?", etc
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 3:33 PM on December 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
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posted by seanmpuckett at 7:20 AM on December 22, 2021 [22 favorites]