What is American cuisine?
January 19, 2022 2:22 PM Subscribe
Why Do Grocery Stores Still Have Ethnic Aisles? NYTimes article (probably paywalled, but the main points are in the video).
Well that is sort of it. I think Priya Krishna makes it very clear in the video that this is a complicated issue. Eating habits are never static, things that were "ethnic" to some white grandparents are just food to their grandchildren.
Still (from the NYTimes article):
Well that is sort of it. I think Priya Krishna makes it very clear in the video that this is a complicated issue. Eating habits are never static, things that were "ethnic" to some white grandparents are just food to their grandchildren.
Still (from the NYTimes article):
The spot where her products have found the most success is the so-called ethnic or international aisle, the global smorgasbord that has long been a fixture of American groceries — wide-ranging, yet somehow detached from the rest of the store.
“Consumers are trained, if they want Indian products, to go to that aisle,” said Ms. Agrawal, 42. “Do I like the fact that that is the way it is? No.”
New York, where she runs her company out of her home, is one of the most diverse cities in the world. Yet even there, the ethnic aisle persists, and its composition often perplexes her. “I buy Finnish crackers. Why are they not in the ethnic aisle?” she said. “An Asian rice cracker would be in the ethnic aisle.”
"Nonetheless, grocers cite convenience as the reason for maintaining ethnic aisles as shoppers have been trained to find tortillas, soy sauce and turmeric in those sections. For many consumers and brands, the aisles still support discovery." RetailWire: Should grocery stores retire the ethnic aisle? (Read the comments. "I’ve introduced foreign OTC pharmaceuticals and food brands into the country’s grocers and I have mixed feelings about the ethnic aisles.
On the positive side, ethnic aisles have served as a stepping stone or proof of the consumer’s demand for the product...On the negative side, large grocers/retailers assign an outside distributor to determine which ethnic products should be included in the ethnic aisle. ... Buying decisions are not made according to consumer demand or for the benefit of the grocer, rather for the benefit of the distributor.")
posted by MonkeyToes at 2:44 PM on January 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
On the positive side, ethnic aisles have served as a stepping stone or proof of the consumer’s demand for the product...On the negative side, large grocers/retailers assign an outside distributor to determine which ethnic products should be included in the ethnic aisle. ... Buying decisions are not made according to consumer demand or for the benefit of the grocer, rather for the benefit of the distributor.")
posted by MonkeyToes at 2:44 PM on January 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
I always get a kick out of the "Ethnic" frozen section at our local independent grocery in the Midwestern US because it's mostly just standard frozen burritos.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 2:45 PM on January 19, 2022 [20 favorites]
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 2:45 PM on January 19, 2022 [20 favorites]
OMG if stores can train me to look for canned pumpkin* in the baking aisle instead of the canned vegetables aisle, I think shoppers can be retrained to look for dried poblano peppers in the general spices aisle.
I didn't watch the video, but the exceptions that prove the rule to me are tortilla chips and salsa which are usually just in the chip aisle. Though salsa is also usually shelved in ethnic foods and sometimes with general condiments.
*The vet told me to feed canned pumpkin to the cats and I'm sticking by it and the pet-specific pumpkin at the pet store is outrageously expensive.
posted by spamandkimchi at 2:49 PM on January 19, 2022 [11 favorites]
I didn't watch the video, but the exceptions that prove the rule to me are tortilla chips and salsa which are usually just in the chip aisle. Though salsa is also usually shelved in ethnic foods and sometimes with general condiments.
*The vet told me to feed canned pumpkin to the cats and I'm sticking by it and the pet-specific pumpkin at the pet store is outrageously expensive.
posted by spamandkimchi at 2:49 PM on January 19, 2022 [11 favorites]
I live in a minority white neighborhood, something like 60 percent Latino, and we still have an aisle in the local supermarket denominated “Hispanic foods.” ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The local Indian and Chinese markets also have an aisle for “American food,” which has stuff like Ronzoni pasta.
posted by holborne at 2:52 PM on January 19, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by holborne at 2:52 PM on January 19, 2022 [8 favorites]
Eating habits are never static, things that were "ethnic" to some white grandparents are just food to their grandchildren.
It's difficult to articulate just how bland mainstream American cuisine was in the 80s. The range of food the average American eats now, from the wealth of different backgrounds, would likely confound the midwestern kid I was back then, where our non-standard choices were bland Mexican, bland Chinese, and that one page of Greek food at the family dinner. Scratch a Gen X kid and you'll find deep, abiding fond memories of getting to go to Pizza Hut because dad just got his paycheck. The dietary options available now... it's a different world.
As far as ethnic (sorry エスニック) food in Japan... it's largely the same phenomenon, yet worse: "ethnic" stands for anything foreign, yet not European or American in origin. Italian is food. French cuisine is aspirational. Thai is "ethnic."
posted by Ghidorah at 2:58 PM on January 19, 2022 [29 favorites]
It's difficult to articulate just how bland mainstream American cuisine was in the 80s. The range of food the average American eats now, from the wealth of different backgrounds, would likely confound the midwestern kid I was back then, where our non-standard choices were bland Mexican, bland Chinese, and that one page of Greek food at the family dinner. Scratch a Gen X kid and you'll find deep, abiding fond memories of getting to go to Pizza Hut because dad just got his paycheck. The dietary options available now... it's a different world.
As far as ethnic (sorry エスニック) food in Japan... it's largely the same phenomenon, yet worse: "ethnic" stands for anything foreign, yet not European or American in origin. Italian is food. French cuisine is aspirational. Thai is "ethnic."
posted by Ghidorah at 2:58 PM on January 19, 2022 [29 favorites]
For me the only metric is does the organization/segregation help me find the stuff I'm looking for...
posted by jim in austin at 3:02 PM on January 19, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by jim in austin at 3:02 PM on January 19, 2022 [8 favorites]
OMG if stores can train me to look for canned pumpkin in the baking aisle instead of the canned vegetables aisle, I think shoppers can be retrained to look for dried poblano peppers in the general spices aisle.
I guess if I could count on all/most stores to consistently stock particular items then I might go with this system. For example, if I knew I could get rice vinegar at 80% of generic 'American' markets (*), then I'd be happy to look for it in the aggregate vinegar section (along with balsamic vinegar, formerly an exotic/ethnic item). However, I can't so having an Asian Foods section represents a valuable shortcut.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 3:07 PM on January 19, 2022 [4 favorites]
I guess if I could count on all/most stores to consistently stock particular items then I might go with this system. For example, if I knew I could get rice vinegar at 80% of generic 'American' markets (*), then I'd be happy to look for it in the aggregate vinegar section (along with balsamic vinegar, formerly an exotic/ethnic item). However, I can't so having an Asian Foods section represents a valuable shortcut.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 3:07 PM on January 19, 2022 [4 favorites]
I really miss the "international" aisle at my old grocery which was truly dedicated to rare imported stuff rather than just anything that seemed "ethnic." Like if you were just making a Japanese dish, you got the ingredients from the sections (sauces, produce, noodles or rice etc.) that made sense. But if you wanted an eleven dollar package of official Jammie Dodgers, the international aisle was your huckleberry.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 3:18 PM on January 19, 2022 [14 favorites]
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 3:18 PM on January 19, 2022 [14 favorites]
Before my Bay Area supermarket integrated their aisles a few years ago, you could find the same goods there for wildly different prices depending on whether you were looking in the ethnic aisles or not. Like, you could buy cumin seeds for around $3.50/oz in those little red McCormick jars in the spices aisle, vs. $1.80/oz from El Guapo (which is a McCormick brand!) in Hispanic foods, vs. $0.31/oz in the 14-oz bags from Deep in the Indian section. All in the same store! So I wonder if having separate ethnic aisles facilitates price discrimination, intentional or not.
posted by pmdboi at 3:27 PM on January 19, 2022 [35 favorites]
posted by pmdboi at 3:27 PM on January 19, 2022 [35 favorites]
The grocery store nearest me, in suburban metro Atlanta, has an "International Foods" section, that takes up about half of one aisle. That's where you'll find all the Asian ingredients, British stuff like Marmite and PG Tips tea, and all the Old El Paso Mexi-meal kits. That's also where you'll find the Old El Paso tortillas, salsa, and some smaller brand Mexican products. Oh, that's where the saint candles are too.
The good tortillas, usually from Atlanta's own Ole Mexican Foods, are located on the bread aisle. Atlanta has a very large, very diverse Hispanic population, and most grocery stores do what they can to cater to that market. My guess is that they're used to finding tortillas on the bread aisle, so there they are.
The kosher stuff is on a different aisle, though. I think at my store it's at the top of the aisle with canned vegetables. That's where you get Kedem Grape Juice, candles, and various other kosher items.
All the spices, no matter what cuisine, are in the general spice section. So if I want curry powder or garam masala, I know to look there. Those don't get placed in the "international" section.
posted by ralan at 3:30 PM on January 19, 2022 [4 favorites]
The good tortillas, usually from Atlanta's own Ole Mexican Foods, are located on the bread aisle. Atlanta has a very large, very diverse Hispanic population, and most grocery stores do what they can to cater to that market. My guess is that they're used to finding tortillas on the bread aisle, so there they are.
The kosher stuff is on a different aisle, though. I think at my store it's at the top of the aisle with canned vegetables. That's where you get Kedem Grape Juice, candles, and various other kosher items.
All the spices, no matter what cuisine, are in the general spice section. So if I want curry powder or garam masala, I know to look there. Those don't get placed in the "international" section.
posted by ralan at 3:30 PM on January 19, 2022 [4 favorites]
“I buy Finnish crackers. Why are they not in the ethnic aisle?”
A couple of Twin Cities stores I go to used to have Jelly Babies and McVities digestives in the "ethnic" aisle alongside the big tortilla packs and the ramen bowls.
The large categories I have to deal with at local groceries are "natural/organic", "ethnic", and "default", with smaller but distinct aisle sections for "gluten-free" and sometimes "kosher". Okay, so where is a bag of almond flour? How about a can of coconut milk? Sometimes they're in more than one place.
This is mostly separated out in the regular aisles, though, and not separated out elsewhere. "Ethnic" produce is alongside other fruits and vegetables. Meats are just meats. That idea that the distributors are calling the shots on this sounds legit--it seems to happen more on the stocked shelves where vendors fight for space.
(Pro tip: The "Hispanic spices" display always seems to have better, fresher stuff at a lower price, yet 2/3s of it are the same basic items you'd get in the "baking" aisle.)
posted by gimonca at 3:30 PM on January 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
A couple of Twin Cities stores I go to used to have Jelly Babies and McVities digestives in the "ethnic" aisle alongside the big tortilla packs and the ramen bowls.
The large categories I have to deal with at local groceries are "natural/organic", "ethnic", and "default", with smaller but distinct aisle sections for "gluten-free" and sometimes "kosher". Okay, so where is a bag of almond flour? How about a can of coconut milk? Sometimes they're in more than one place.
This is mostly separated out in the regular aisles, though, and not separated out elsewhere. "Ethnic" produce is alongside other fruits and vegetables. Meats are just meats. That idea that the distributors are calling the shots on this sounds legit--it seems to happen more on the stocked shelves where vendors fight for space.
(Pro tip: The "Hispanic spices" display always seems to have better, fresher stuff at a lower price, yet 2/3s of it are the same basic items you'd get in the "baking" aisle.)
posted by gimonca at 3:30 PM on January 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
I live in rural Pennsylvania USA. My local grocery store is a Weis. There is an ethnic" food aisle that has a better-than-expected selection of "asian" (Thai, Korean, Japanese, Chinese but oddly not Indian) stuff and a decent selection of "Mexican" stuff like Goya. But if you want masa harina (for making corn tortillas, the only brand I can buy is Maseca), you do not find it in the "ethnic" section but in the FLOUR section. Go figure.
posted by which_chick at 3:39 PM on January 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by which_chick at 3:39 PM on January 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
I literally can't think of anything I regularly buy from the "ethnic" (code for "non-white") aisles where I live. When I have a minute during shopping, I'll usually check it out out of curiosity, but because it's ultimately just pantry items (which I try to minimize spending on anyways in order to eat more fresh unprocessed ingredients) I can always wait until I go to a nearby Chinese supermarket, or a Japanese supermarket, etc., for better selections.
Weirdly, for a couple years my neighborhood Chinese supermarket was stocking organic spaghetti from Italy (Molisana brand) that the local Safeway-type supermarkets didn't carry. That was some great tasting spaghetti, but I guess it was a few dollars more expensive so the Chinese clientele wasn't enough to keep it around.
posted by polymodus at 3:59 PM on January 19, 2022
Weirdly, for a couple years my neighborhood Chinese supermarket was stocking organic spaghetti from Italy (Molisana brand) that the local Safeway-type supermarkets didn't carry. That was some great tasting spaghetti, but I guess it was a few dollars more expensive so the Chinese clientele wasn't enough to keep it around.
posted by polymodus at 3:59 PM on January 19, 2022
Here in Austin, at H‑E‑B, you can find salsa in the condiments section AND in the Mexican foods section. Like many foods, it’s segregated by the production source and marketing efforts of the suppliers. H‑E‑B also has stores with different emphasis - the store in a major Hispanic area carries a larger selection of fresh produce, while the stores in more Anglo-dominated areas carry more frozen and canned foods.
There is a store here, Fiesta Mart, that has has multiple international aisles, one for each stocked cuisine. I’m assuming that makes it easier for suppliers and inventory specialists to determine when the canned haggis needs to be restocked.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 3:59 PM on January 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
There is a store here, Fiesta Mart, that has has multiple international aisles, one for each stocked cuisine. I’m assuming that makes it easier for suppliers and inventory specialists to determine when the canned haggis needs to be restocked.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 3:59 PM on January 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
JustSayNoDawg, the different ethnic area, different stocking methods is pretty well set in place. A friend of mine was working for a Chicago area grocery chain, doing the layouts and copy writing for newspaper inserts. Predominantly Black areas would have very different items on sale (and at different prices) than mostly white neighborhoods. Part of it is, honestly, down to different preferences between different groups, but another part of it is pretty much predatory.
posted by Ghidorah at 4:03 PM on January 19, 2022
posted by Ghidorah at 4:03 PM on January 19, 2022
I'm confused by these references to tortillas being located on the ethnic aisle. I have never seen an ethnic food aisle that included food that would be shelf stable for less than a year.
I am frightened by the implication that there might exist such a horror as tortillas that are shelf stable for a year.
posted by yohko at 4:21 PM on January 19, 2022 [4 favorites]
I am frightened by the implication that there might exist such a horror as tortillas that are shelf stable for a year.
posted by yohko at 4:21 PM on January 19, 2022 [4 favorites]
Okay, so where is a bag of almond flour? How about a can of coconut milk? Sometimes they're in more than one place.
As a teenager in the eighties I worked for a few months in a major grocery store. My boss grew tired of my questioning why tomato paste sold by Heinz or French’s was in one aisle but tomato paste with the name Primo or Ragu on the can was five rows away. Basically if the brand name ended in a vowel, it was sent to a special section.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:34 PM on January 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
As a teenager in the eighties I worked for a few months in a major grocery store. My boss grew tired of my questioning why tomato paste sold by Heinz or French’s was in one aisle but tomato paste with the name Primo or Ragu on the can was five rows away. Basically if the brand name ended in a vowel, it was sent to a special section.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:34 PM on January 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
@Ghidorah: speaking of predatory, I lived in Tyler for a while where one grocery company (Brookshires) ran two completely separate chains. The one aimed at the white population was good, but the one in the black section of town was fucking appalling. I shopped there because college student (and there was an amazing secret taco stand nearby).
By comparison, the worst H‑E‑B I’ve been in was better than the best Brookshires on both selection and quality. H‑E‑B may segment their stores somewhat, but they know their audience and work to serve them well.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 4:37 PM on January 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
By comparison, the worst H‑E‑B I’ve been in was better than the best Brookshires on both selection and quality. H‑E‑B may segment their stores somewhat, but they know their audience and work to serve them well.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 4:37 PM on January 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
Seems to me that having foods from various ethnic cuisines in one place in the store would be handy for immigrants looking for items from their old country. Saves a person from walking all over the store... if they carry this brand of rice mix or that brand of cookie, it will be in the ethnic aisle, in the section for that region's cuisine. I think if I were living abroad I'd appreciate an American section that I'd know to check for Poptarts and Hellman's.
A thing that bugs me about my Jewel: they have bags of dried beans in two places in the store. They have a dried bean section in the aisle where they sell things like Rice-A-Roni, noodles, and instant potatoes; and they also have dried beans in the Hispanic section of the ethnic aisle. But they're not all the same beans, but not all different either. Some types of beans you'll find in both aisles, and some types are only in one or the other, and there doesn't seem to be any real rhyme or reason as to why. For years I didn't think they carried 15 bean soup beans, because I was looking for them in what I thought was the bean section, but then I discovered there was a whole other bean section. And now I have to remember to check both bean sections if I don't see the beans I want. /grumble
Metafilter: something about overthinking the bean section
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 4:42 PM on January 19, 2022 [14 favorites]
A thing that bugs me about my Jewel: they have bags of dried beans in two places in the store. They have a dried bean section in the aisle where they sell things like Rice-A-Roni, noodles, and instant potatoes; and they also have dried beans in the Hispanic section of the ethnic aisle. But they're not all the same beans, but not all different either. Some types of beans you'll find in both aisles, and some types are only in one or the other, and there doesn't seem to be any real rhyme or reason as to why. For years I didn't think they carried 15 bean soup beans, because I was looking for them in what I thought was the bean section, but then I discovered there was a whole other bean section. And now I have to remember to check both bean sections if I don't see the beans I want. /grumble
Metafilter: something about overthinking the bean section
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 4:42 PM on January 19, 2022 [14 favorites]
I don't care where the store puts the so-called "ethnic" ingredients, I'll have to grumble about it, and adjust my stupid shopping-list app; but I'll find them. Just please don't remove them!
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:46 PM on January 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:46 PM on January 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
In my grocery store, the organic eggs are in the organic section, and the regular eggs are on the other side of the building. In the end, we’re all tribal.
posted by Melismata at 5:00 PM on January 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 5:00 PM on January 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
I'm sort-of fascinated by what "graduates" from the ethnic food aisle, and how it varies by region. The last place I lived, tacos were definitely "ethnic" food. But where I live now, tacos, tortillas, etc., are all firmly in the "main" part of the supermarket (tortillas in the bread aisle with other flatbreads; tacos kits and related supplies in the "prepackaged dinner" aisle that also has boxed couscous mixes, hamburger helper, jarred pasta sauce, boxed pasta, etc.). At one of the supermarkets I shop at, the "ethnic foods" aisle is basically sauces and spice mixes, and a small handful of imported specialty products; otherwise, beans live with beans, rice lives with rice, flatbreads live with bread, and if you want Mexican-seasoned refried canned beans, you go find them next to the 15 kinds of baked beans. The other one I go to has a robust "World Foods" section, separated by country (and sometimes region), mooooooostly imports, but the Asian foods in particular I see a lot of US-based Asian food producers in the "World Foods" aisle. I like this less because I never know if, say, a fancy imported Italian olive oil will be in the "olive oil" aisle, or in the "World Foods" aisle in the Italy shelves. Mexican and Puerto Rican food, it's a total crapshoot whether I'll find it in the "regular" aisles or the World Foods aisle. Pre-Covid, I did like wandering "World Foods" with my kids, because they have a lot of imported cookies and candies along with pickled vegetables we did not know could be pickled and jarred sauces of mysterious purpose, and we'd often pick a country, peruse all the offerings, and pick one treat and one "ingredient" (sauce/spice/etc.) to try.
The third place I shop is a locally-owned, full-service grocery store, and they don't have an "ethnic foods" aisle. But they do stock the ethnic ingredients common to our town (which means Ashkenazi Jewish, Korean, Jaliscan Mexican, and Russian/Ukrainian), and that is heavily influenced by what local shoppers have asked them to carry. If three local people go to them and say, "I really wish I could get X sauce here ..." they will find an importer and start stocking X sauce. The oils/vinegars/sauces aisle in particular is a glorious cornucopia of "standard American stuff," "bougie hipster faves," "local producers," and "hyperspecific ethnic ingredients unique to the ethnic makeup of this hyperlocal area." (It's also the only grocery-store butcher where you can roll up all casual and get pigs feet any day of the week.) Because they are a grocery store and not a supermarket, the selection isn't as broad, and tends a bit seasonal in ways that aren't always intuitive to me. (You can get ham shanks at Christmas and Easter, but not on a random Friday in the fall.) But I feel like if you had just moved here, it would not be at ALL intuitive that you can get Korean ingredients, kosher foods, and Jaliscan Mexican import brands in vast array, but you are flatly out of luck for Japanese food or Bajacaliforniense imports! You would spend several months being like, "WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THIS GROCERY STORE AND WHY?"
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:04 PM on January 19, 2022 [8 favorites]
The third place I shop is a locally-owned, full-service grocery store, and they don't have an "ethnic foods" aisle. But they do stock the ethnic ingredients common to our town (which means Ashkenazi Jewish, Korean, Jaliscan Mexican, and Russian/Ukrainian), and that is heavily influenced by what local shoppers have asked them to carry. If three local people go to them and say, "I really wish I could get X sauce here ..." they will find an importer and start stocking X sauce. The oils/vinegars/sauces aisle in particular is a glorious cornucopia of "standard American stuff," "bougie hipster faves," "local producers," and "hyperspecific ethnic ingredients unique to the ethnic makeup of this hyperlocal area." (It's also the only grocery-store butcher where you can roll up all casual and get pigs feet any day of the week.) Because they are a grocery store and not a supermarket, the selection isn't as broad, and tends a bit seasonal in ways that aren't always intuitive to me. (You can get ham shanks at Christmas and Easter, but not on a random Friday in the fall.) But I feel like if you had just moved here, it would not be at ALL intuitive that you can get Korean ingredients, kosher foods, and Jaliscan Mexican import brands in vast array, but you are flatly out of luck for Japanese food or Bajacaliforniense imports! You would spend several months being like, "WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THIS GROCERY STORE AND WHY?"
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:04 PM on January 19, 2022 [8 favorites]
Ethnic doesn't just mean non-white-people food. Eastern European and Scandinavian and even some western European items are also relegated to the international aisle. And no, I'm not paying $7.00 for a small bag of Bob's Red Mill buckwheat when I can spend less than half of that for a larger volume of buckwheat kernels imported from eastern Europe (when the stores actually manage to remember to stock it--or can import it because, apparently there's a supply chain issue with it, like there is with everything else--and stop hiding it in different places in the international aisle).
posted by sardonyx at 5:08 PM on January 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by sardonyx at 5:08 PM on January 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
Ethnic doesn't just mean non-white-people food. Eastern European and Scandinavian and even some western European items are also relegated to the international aisle.
Yes it does, according to the university professor's interview I literally read off of Google 2 hours ago. And when the ethnic aisle contains Nordic or Russian food it is renamed International.
posted by polymodus at 5:11 PM on January 19, 2022 [7 favorites]
Yes it does, according to the university professor's interview I literally read off of Google 2 hours ago. And when the ethnic aisle contains Nordic or Russian food it is renamed International.
posted by polymodus at 5:11 PM on January 19, 2022 [7 favorites]
I always get a kick out of the "Ethnic" frozen section at our local independent grocery in the Midwestern US because it's mostly just standard frozen burritos.
I was just telling one of my kids that when I was in high school in the early 80s, pita bread started showing up in the grocery store and we all started making sandwiches with it. Except it was labelled "Pocket Bread," because apparently "pita" was too exotic and foreign for us small-town midwesterners.
We live in a bigger city than the small town I grew up in, but that's not the only reason my kids regularly eat Thai food, Ethiopian food, sushi, Vietnamese, middle eastern. When I was growing up, we sometimes went out for pizza, or fast food, or to an "American" restaurant. We never so much as ate Chinese food.
posted by Well I never at 5:13 PM on January 19, 2022 [7 favorites]
I was just telling one of my kids that when I was in high school in the early 80s, pita bread started showing up in the grocery store and we all started making sandwiches with it. Except it was labelled "Pocket Bread," because apparently "pita" was too exotic and foreign for us small-town midwesterners.
We live in a bigger city than the small town I grew up in, but that's not the only reason my kids regularly eat Thai food, Ethiopian food, sushi, Vietnamese, middle eastern. When I was growing up, we sometimes went out for pizza, or fast food, or to an "American" restaurant. We never so much as ate Chinese food.
posted by Well I never at 5:13 PM on January 19, 2022 [7 favorites]
I am frightened by the implication that there might exist such a horror as tortillas that are shelf stable for a year.
A number of MREs have moved to using tortillas for the bread element. There are a number of reasons for this, but shelf stability is one of the bigger ones.
posted by NoxAeternum at 5:16 PM on January 19, 2022 [6 favorites]
A number of MREs have moved to using tortillas for the bread element. There are a number of reasons for this, but shelf stability is one of the bigger ones.
posted by NoxAeternum at 5:16 PM on January 19, 2022 [6 favorites]
The ethnic/international aisle is the one I enjoy the most going through but the only things I'll get from it are ginger beer, Ovaltine, or Milo. I have no idea how Ovaltine even became ethnic but at some point it stopped being shelved with the chocolate milk and ended up over there.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 5:18 PM on January 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 5:18 PM on January 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
My husband looked for fifteen minutes for soy sauce in our local market the other day and never found it. He tried the ethnic foods and he tried the oil and vinegar section and it was in neither of those and he wasn't sure where else to look. I eventually discovered it the next time I went to that store, between the barbecue sauce and the shelf stable salad dressing.
Taxonomy is a hard problem and we're all just doing our best.
posted by potrzebie at 5:30 PM on January 19, 2022 [32 favorites]
Taxonomy is a hard problem and we're all just doing our best.
posted by potrzebie at 5:30 PM on January 19, 2022 [32 favorites]
Now I'm wondering what the difference is between Yangnyeom Chicken, which I love (no, luuurve), and Buldak, which I just heard about for the first time in this thread.
Back on topic, all of this confusion and frustration is a byproduct of organizing food products in rigid categories, which results in items being present in an unexpected place or in more than one place. Computer file systems have taught us that tags are superior to strictly hierarchical taxonomies in every way except for one: the labor of applying tags to items. Machine learning can help us avoid this labor and apply tags automatically.
I envision a system where a customer can enter a store, speak some descriptive terms (countries, cuisines, recipe titles, etc.) and the store will respond with the name of an aisle. ("Please proceed to E4.") By the time the customer has arrived, the aisle will have rearranged itself (via Amazon warehouse-style robots and conveyors in the floor and inside the shelves) to display items matching those terms, plus a few items that are in nearby in the Grocery-Space embedding, and some suggestions based on the choices of shoppers with similar habits.
I leave the question of whether this will lead to a culinary filter bubble and a pipeline to Joe Roganoli and Frosted QAnons and Alt-right-on Brown to the reader.
posted by The genius who rejected Anno's budget proposal. at 5:31 PM on January 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
Back on topic, all of this confusion and frustration is a byproduct of organizing food products in rigid categories, which results in items being present in an unexpected place or in more than one place. Computer file systems have taught us that tags are superior to strictly hierarchical taxonomies in every way except for one: the labor of applying tags to items. Machine learning can help us avoid this labor and apply tags automatically.
I envision a system where a customer can enter a store, speak some descriptive terms (countries, cuisines, recipe titles, etc.) and the store will respond with the name of an aisle. ("Please proceed to E4.") By the time the customer has arrived, the aisle will have rearranged itself (via Amazon warehouse-style robots and conveyors in the floor and inside the shelves) to display items matching those terms, plus a few items that are in nearby in the Grocery-Space embedding, and some suggestions based on the choices of shoppers with similar habits.
I leave the question of whether this will lead to a culinary filter bubble and a pipeline to Joe Roganoli and Frosted QAnons and Alt-right-on Brown to the reader.
posted by The genius who rejected Anno's budget proposal. at 5:31 PM on January 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
Seems to me that having foods from various ethnic cuisines in one place in the store would be handy for immigrants looking for items from their old country.This probably varies a lot by location, but my sense where I live is that members of a given ethnic group are much more likely to go to separate ethnic groceries for that stuff. Also, there are big ethnic groups here that aren't represented in the ethnic aisle. We have a substantial Sudanese and other Eastern African community, big enough to sustain a halal grocery that caters to the community, but I don't think there's a Sudanese or East African section in the ethnic aisle. At least, if there is, I've missed it.
Eastern European and Scandinavian and even some western European items are also relegated to the international aisle.I don't think that's true where I live, for what it's worth. I'm actually not sure that we have Eastern European or Scandinavian food at my supermarket, and imported Italian stuff is in a separate fancy food aisle by the pasta. On the other hand, there is a (very small) Jewish section in the ethnic aisle. They used to have Dr. Brown's black cherry soda, which I found vaguely hilarious. The ethnic cuisine of my people! (Honestly, Dr. Brown's black cherry soda probably is the best representation of the ethnic cuisine of my people. I don't know how they managed to get that right.)
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:41 PM on January 19, 2022 [5 favorites]
They used to have Dr. Brown's black cherry soda, which I found vaguely hilarious. The ethnic cuisine of my people!
Or at least that segment of our people not hardcore enough for Cel-Ray.
posted by escabeche at 5:46 PM on January 19, 2022 [12 favorites]
Or at least that segment of our people not hardcore enough for Cel-Ray.
posted by escabeche at 5:46 PM on January 19, 2022 [12 favorites]
I think that an international aisle, that stocks food from all other parts of the world is superior (at least seems a lot less racist and othering to me) than an "ethnic" aisle. My favourite supermarket here had a pretty good international aisle, with Irn-Bru and stroopwafels and zwieback hanging out with the wasabi and atta flour and canned ackee. The best part was that Ribena was stocked twice across the aisle from each other; UK import next to Curlywurlys and Hong Kong Ribena with the soy sauce and the Knorr boullion packets with Chinese writing on them.
posted by Superilla at 5:48 PM on January 19, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by Superilla at 5:48 PM on January 19, 2022 [6 favorites]
Dr Brown's black cherry soda? Have I been culturally appropriating and not even knowing it?
I don't know much about the grocery industry, but I know that - at least in big chain stores - there are all kinds of cutthroat shenanigans as far as what products end up on what shelves and what things they can be placed near. So I figured a lot of what ends up in the 'international' aisle is more niche stuff - like, hypothetically the store could put the 1-2 shelf-feet's worth of good imported ramen next to the cheap ramen in the 'prepared foods' aisle, but that would mean they have to compress some of the varieties of boxed mac&cheese and they don't want to piss off Kraft or Annie's.
So, I assume some of it is distributor-driven like that, but there's also a customer service part of it where people looking for kosher grape juice are probably also looking for the boxes of matzah-ball mix. Same as how the diet soda is stocked with the sugared soda, but less common diet foods are in their own section.
There's also a whole sociological aspect of what is considered "American" and how various groups are perceived to be assimilated or not. I assume other parts of the country were decades ahead of the northeast, but in the northeast, foods like salsa and burritos have gone from somewhat exotic to mundanely unmarked as 'exotic'.
posted by rmd1023 at 6:24 PM on January 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
I don't know much about the grocery industry, but I know that - at least in big chain stores - there are all kinds of cutthroat shenanigans as far as what products end up on what shelves and what things they can be placed near. So I figured a lot of what ends up in the 'international' aisle is more niche stuff - like, hypothetically the store could put the 1-2 shelf-feet's worth of good imported ramen next to the cheap ramen in the 'prepared foods' aisle, but that would mean they have to compress some of the varieties of boxed mac&cheese and they don't want to piss off Kraft or Annie's.
So, I assume some of it is distributor-driven like that, but there's also a customer service part of it where people looking for kosher grape juice are probably also looking for the boxes of matzah-ball mix. Same as how the diet soda is stocked with the sugared soda, but less common diet foods are in their own section.
There's also a whole sociological aspect of what is considered "American" and how various groups are perceived to be assimilated or not. I assume other parts of the country were decades ahead of the northeast, but in the northeast, foods like salsa and burritos have gone from somewhat exotic to mundanely unmarked as 'exotic'.
posted by rmd1023 at 6:24 PM on January 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
Yes it does, according to the university professor's interview I literally read off of Google 2 hours ago. And when the ethnic aisle contains Nordic or Russian food it is renamed International.
posted by polymodus at 5:11 PM on January 19
This might be another one of those Canadian/American separations. I can't say I've been in a Canadian supermarket that uses the term "ethnic" and that includes ones in poor, minority neighbourhoods. It was something you sometimes did see years and years and years back, but it's not at all common these days--or at least it's not common where I currently reside. I suspect this has less to do with the food on the shelves than the Canadian approach to multiculturalism and inclusive language. (Note: I'm not saying we've got this whole racial thing solved. We just have a different awareness about language surrounding the issue.)
posted by sardonyx at 6:46 PM on January 19, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by polymodus at 5:11 PM on January 19
This might be another one of those Canadian/American separations. I can't say I've been in a Canadian supermarket that uses the term "ethnic" and that includes ones in poor, minority neighbourhoods. It was something you sometimes did see years and years and years back, but it's not at all common these days--or at least it's not common where I currently reside. I suspect this has less to do with the food on the shelves than the Canadian approach to multiculturalism and inclusive language. (Note: I'm not saying we've got this whole racial thing solved. We just have a different awareness about language surrounding the issue.)
posted by sardonyx at 6:46 PM on January 19, 2022 [5 favorites]
It's not unusual for the Mexican chains here in L.A. (which I call "Mexican" because they will have a bakery and deli and meat department that seem to offer almost exclusively Mexican foods) to have ethnic aisles with Mexican and other Latin American foods. Most of the aisles will be virtually identical to fairly generic American supermarket goods, except for their ethnic aisle. So you can absolutely get your Campbell's soup, box mac and cheese, and Pop Tarts. The soft drink aisle might be integrated, but in some stores you'll have to go to their ethnic aisle to get Sidral Mundet.
It's kind of weird, but whatever. As long as I can find what I want, it's all good.
posted by 2N2222 at 6:57 PM on January 19, 2022
It's kind of weird, but whatever. As long as I can find what I want, it's all good.
posted by 2N2222 at 6:57 PM on January 19, 2022
It's difficult to articulate just how bland mainstream American cuisine was in the 80s. The range of food the average American eats now, from the wealth of different backgrounds, would likely confound the midwestern kid I was back thenI’m reminded of the time I was a teenager visiting family in Schenectady, NY. They had a customary dinner with another family with kids about my cousin’s age at a local Mexican restaurant. As a native Californian, that sounded good but I soon learned the error of my ways in a disappointment of unseasoned ground beef and American cheese with a couple flavorless tomatoes.
posted by adamsc at 7:01 PM on January 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
I am all for making supermarkets less colonialist, but in the end, do taco shells go under Baked Goods with the bread and wraps, or do they go under Chips near the Doritos? Does the Pasta section become the Noodle section, even though nobody calls a gnocchi a noodle?
posted by turbid dahlia at 7:04 PM on January 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by turbid dahlia at 7:04 PM on January 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
At my local supermarket, the cheap Top Ramen is in the soup aisle, but the fancy (and expensive) ramen is in the Asian food aisle.
posted by mbrubeck at 7:09 PM on January 19, 2022 [12 favorites]
posted by mbrubeck at 7:09 PM on January 19, 2022 [12 favorites]
The "Hispanic spices" display always seems to have better, fresher stuff at a lower price
Two of my grocery stores literally have a "bag spices" aisle (as opposed to, say, McCormick), but none of the three I frequent has an "ethnic" aisle. Cactus is with the vegetables, lardons are with meat, coconut milk/cream is with canned vegetables, tripe is with meat, ramen are with noodles generally (as are gnocchi), pig knuckles are with meat unless pickled, every variety of bean is in the "bean/rice" aisle, non-rice substitutes are adjacent to the rices but on a different shelf, non-dairy analogues of dairy are adjacent to the dairy but in a different cooler next to the eggs, matzo is adjacent to crackers, tahini is near peanut butter, kosher wine is anomalously hanging out with the matzo and also in the alcohol aisles.
Intriguingly, crackers with nothing applied are in the cracker aisle, while crackers with pseudo-cheese or peanut butter applied are in the "snacks" aisle along with bulk candy and giganto-bags of chips.
...all of which to say that you people seem to be from an entirely different country, and I am fascinated.
posted by aramaic at 7:18 PM on January 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
Two of my grocery stores literally have a "bag spices" aisle (as opposed to, say, McCormick), but none of the three I frequent has an "ethnic" aisle. Cactus is with the vegetables, lardons are with meat, coconut milk/cream is with canned vegetables, tripe is with meat, ramen are with noodles generally (as are gnocchi), pig knuckles are with meat unless pickled, every variety of bean is in the "bean/rice" aisle, non-rice substitutes are adjacent to the rices but on a different shelf, non-dairy analogues of dairy are adjacent to the dairy but in a different cooler next to the eggs, matzo is adjacent to crackers, tahini is near peanut butter, kosher wine is anomalously hanging out with the matzo and also in the alcohol aisles.
Intriguingly, crackers with nothing applied are in the cracker aisle, while crackers with pseudo-cheese or peanut butter applied are in the "snacks" aisle along with bulk candy and giganto-bags of chips.
...all of which to say that you people seem to be from an entirely different country, and I am fascinated.
posted by aramaic at 7:18 PM on January 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
The one grocery/supermarket I go to with an international aisle has mostly Japanese/Chinese stuff in that isle. Mexican stuff is integrated and Indian stuff has its own aisle but it is just labeled with the stuff in that aisle rather than an ethnic/international label.
What is weird (and obviously an attempt to get those not paying attention to pay more) is honey is available in four different aisles and even the same packages (different UPC) will have different prices depending on where you are standing. It's crazy making.
posted by Mitheral at 7:21 PM on January 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
What is weird (and obviously an attempt to get those not paying attention to pay more) is honey is available in four different aisles and even the same packages (different UPC) will have different prices depending on where you are standing. It's crazy making.
posted by Mitheral at 7:21 PM on January 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
Our local Publix has an international aisle with separate sections labeled as "Mexican" (Ortega hard taco shells and seasoning packets, Pace jarred salsa, etc.) and "Authentic Mexican" (corn tortillas, Goya products, dried beans and chiles, etc.) I guess because legal objected to calling the former section "Taco Bell Fever Dream Bullshit."
posted by dr. boludo at 7:45 PM on January 19, 2022 [19 favorites]
posted by dr. boludo at 7:45 PM on January 19, 2022 [19 favorites]
I've started noticing the ethnic aisle getting split into Hispanic and Asian sections in different parts of the store, and with a healthy amount of integration where Indian rice and daal type products are in with the pilaf and wild rice boxes, not to mention ramen down at the other end of the pasta aisle.
My husband looked for fifteen minutes for soy sauce in our local market the other day and never found it.
I did the same with cranberry sauce last week! Turns out it's not a condiment, and for some reason is in the canned fruit section. I mean, I know why it's there, but I sure wouldn't put a pile of it on some cottage cheese.
posted by rhizome at 7:50 PM on January 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
My husband looked for fifteen minutes for soy sauce in our local market the other day and never found it.
I did the same with cranberry sauce last week! Turns out it's not a condiment, and for some reason is in the canned fruit section. I mean, I know why it's there, but I sure wouldn't put a pile of it on some cottage cheese.
posted by rhizome at 7:50 PM on January 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
There's one important question I haven't seen addressed yet:
Exactly WHICH branch of Food Bazaar was that filmed in, because it's just over in Queens and I definitely wanna go there.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:59 PM on January 19, 2022 [4 favorites]
Exactly WHICH branch of Food Bazaar was that filmed in, because it's just over in Queens and I definitely wanna go there.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:59 PM on January 19, 2022 [4 favorites]
A number of MREs have moved to using tortillas for the bread element. There are a number of reasons for this, but shelf stability is one of the bigger ones.
Yeah I've found that your standard flour tortillas—as long as they're not purchased from Trader Joe's, anyway—can have a shelf life so long it feels unseemly. I pack them along with peanut butter and Nutella when bike touring for that very reason. I've had a pack last two weeks in the southern summer in the U.S. without getting moldy. It's downright unsettling.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 8:03 PM on January 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
Yeah I've found that your standard flour tortillas—as long as they're not purchased from Trader Joe's, anyway—can have a shelf life so long it feels unseemly. I pack them along with peanut butter and Nutella when bike touring for that very reason. I've had a pack last two weeks in the southern summer in the U.S. without getting moldy. It's downright unsettling.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 8:03 PM on January 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
When I needed some candles after the power went out, I went to the grocery store. One very large candle with a picture of Jesus on it in the Hispanic section: $2.00. One slightly fatter, scented Yankee candle in the greeting card/wrapping paper section: $8.00. A box of 36 short sabbath candles in the Jewish section: $12.50.
posted by Melismata at 8:23 PM on January 19, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 8:23 PM on January 19, 2022 [8 favorites]
Thinking about it, Bob's Red Mill might be a kind of ethnicity? Unclear.
I envision a system where a customer can enter a store, speak some descriptive terms (countries, cuisines, recipe titles, etc.) and the store will respond with the name of an aisle. ("Please proceed to E4.")
Some stores already do this, and you don't even have to speak! Big box stores are the devil but it is pretty handy when I am feeling jittery and overwhelmed but have the option of checking a website to find the exact aisle in which a specific item (e.g, a motion detecting night light) should be available, which is possible at Target, Lowes, and some other vendors that sell stuff both in-person and online.
I'm sure that's way too much of a lift for most grocery stores, but man would it save me the indignity of anxiously circling the store three times because I don't wanna bother anyone but I have looked in all of the multiple locations for X item (e.g., ricotta cheese, sometimes found alongside the store-brand block cheese, sometimes in the fancy cheese case, sometimes in the milk/yogurt aisle, sometimes somewhere else entirely?) and still haven't turned it up, even though I know it's probably there somewhere.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 9:38 PM on January 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
I envision a system where a customer can enter a store, speak some descriptive terms (countries, cuisines, recipe titles, etc.) and the store will respond with the name of an aisle. ("Please proceed to E4.")
Some stores already do this, and you don't even have to speak! Big box stores are the devil but it is pretty handy when I am feeling jittery and overwhelmed but have the option of checking a website to find the exact aisle in which a specific item (e.g, a motion detecting night light) should be available, which is possible at Target, Lowes, and some other vendors that sell stuff both in-person and online.
I'm sure that's way too much of a lift for most grocery stores, but man would it save me the indignity of anxiously circling the store three times because I don't wanna bother anyone but I have looked in all of the multiple locations for X item (e.g., ricotta cheese, sometimes found alongside the store-brand block cheese, sometimes in the fancy cheese case, sometimes in the milk/yogurt aisle, sometimes somewhere else entirely?) and still haven't turned it up, even though I know it's probably there somewhere.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 9:38 PM on January 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
I appreciate the "marked vs. unmarked" issue, but grouping ingredients mostly commonly used together (with similar storage requirements) in the same physical location actually seems more efficient than the other approach. A [insert ethnic group] market is really just that at a larger scale.
posted by praemunire at 9:56 PM on January 19, 2022
posted by praemunire at 9:56 PM on January 19, 2022
A bunch of people have remarked on organization by distributor. So do foods get reshelved in the unmarked aisles when there’s a US manufacturer big enough to be picked up by regional distributors? Do some of them, and others stay marked?
posted by clew at 10:22 PM on January 19, 2022
posted by clew at 10:22 PM on January 19, 2022
Years ago, I picked up a fennel bulb. The sales clerk says, What's that? I say, Fennel. She goes What? I say, Finocchio. She's flipping through a rolodex thing by the till. Then she says, Ethnic vegetable! I'm thinking, what? How is does a vegetable have ethnicity? She is triumphant. Here it is, she says, Anus!
posted by CCBC at 10:34 PM on January 19, 2022 [17 favorites]
posted by CCBC at 10:34 PM on January 19, 2022 [17 favorites]
This is the American food aisle in the 'World Food' section at my local Tesco supermarket in North-East London.
posted by essexjan at 11:08 PM on January 19, 2022 [22 favorites]
posted by essexjan at 11:08 PM on January 19, 2022 [22 favorites]
Ah, the colonial aisle.
posted by Chrysopoeia at 11:33 PM on January 19, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Chrysopoeia at 11:33 PM on January 19, 2022 [4 favorites]
Hmmm.... Tesco, you got the canned pumpkin, but no Marshmallow Fluff?
Previously
posted by polecat at 12:23 AM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Previously
posted by polecat at 12:23 AM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
(It's an ethnic food from New England)
posted by polecat at 12:24 AM on January 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by polecat at 12:24 AM on January 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
I have seen marshmallow fluff in my supermarket in NW London, there are quite a lot Americans in this area.
posted by atrazine at 2:38 AM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by atrazine at 2:38 AM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
To follow on from essexjan - I was just going to chime in with news from my own local Tesco. It has an Irish section, which I'm pretty sure is part of the ethnic aisle, alongside the Indian, Japanese etc.
But the American section is in the junk food aisle.
Which is probably less of a snipe at American cuisine and more of a sad lament that we only import the bad stuff.
posted by penguin pie at 4:18 AM on January 20, 2022
But the American section is in the junk food aisle.
Which is probably less of a snipe at American cuisine and more of a sad lament that we only import the bad stuff.
posted by penguin pie at 4:18 AM on January 20, 2022
No, that sounds about right. When I’m abroad and homesick it’s the junk food I’m after. I can’t think of anything I’d look for in the American aisle other than junk food… Maybe the steak sauce in essexjan’s photo. (I’m terrified by what’s next to it though. Is that a jar of pickled hot dogs?)
posted by ook at 5:08 AM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by ook at 5:08 AM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
This is the American food aisle in the 'World Food' section at my local Tesco supermarket in North-East London.
What in the ever-loving heck are those jarred hot dogs???
posted by Rock Steady at 5:48 AM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
What in the ever-loving heck are those jarred hot dogs???
posted by Rock Steady at 5:48 AM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Here in Puerto Rico, the normal shelves are of course full of Goya and other less offensive local and Latin American brands, but there are often separate US-style Mexican and Asian ethnic sections, and in a couple of places I frequent, what you might describe as a Californian ethnic section (lots of organic/gluten free, specialty grains, etc.).
posted by mubba at 5:50 AM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by mubba at 5:50 AM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Now I'm wondering what the difference is between Yangnyeom Chicken, which I love (no, luuurve), and Buldak, which I just heard about for the first time in this thread.
yangnyeom chicken "양념치킨", lit. "seasoned fried chicken", is sweeter and far less spicy. almost always fried. think barbecue glazed wings & drums.
buldak "불닭", lit. "fire chicken", primarily spicy with a hit of sweet. almost always chunked chicken, often grilled, not fried. often served mixed with rice cakes, fish cakes, or cheese.
note: "치킨", pr. "chikin", refers more or less specifically to fried chicken; "닭", pr. "dahk", refers to chicken in general.
posted by i used to be someone else at 6:18 AM on January 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
yangnyeom chicken "양념치킨", lit. "seasoned fried chicken", is sweeter and far less spicy. almost always fried. think barbecue glazed wings & drums.
buldak "불닭", lit. "fire chicken", primarily spicy with a hit of sweet. almost always chunked chicken, often grilled, not fried. often served mixed with rice cakes, fish cakes, or cheese.
note: "치킨", pr. "chikin", refers more or less specifically to fried chicken; "닭", pr. "dahk", refers to chicken in general.
posted by i used to be someone else at 6:18 AM on January 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
EmpressCallipygos :
There's one important question I haven't seen addressed yet:
Exactly WHICH branch of Food Bazaar was that filmed in, because it's just over in Queens and I definitely wanna go there.
Looking at the photos in the article, it looks very likely to be my go to local Food Bazaar, the 75,000 square foot location on Northern Boulevard in Long Island City, which has many many different 'ethnic' sections. Of all of the locations, it has the widest range of foods of any I've been to (Gothamist article). I highly recommend checking it out if you are in the area!
Oddly enough, my wife and I frequently make it a point to hit up other Food Bazaars (and other markets) when walking around and exploring New York. Though to be honest we always visit local supermarkets while traveling too, both domestically and internationally to get a sense of the food scene and discovering awesome new ingredients. It is a fascinating peak into the super local communities that they can serve - in my neighborhood there are several Food Bazaars, and they all clearly cater to different ethnicities and the available goods can be surprisingly varied even if they are a few blocks apart.
posted by rambling wanderlust at 6:18 AM on January 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
There's one important question I haven't seen addressed yet:
Exactly WHICH branch of Food Bazaar was that filmed in, because it's just over in Queens and I definitely wanna go there.
Looking at the photos in the article, it looks very likely to be my go to local Food Bazaar, the 75,000 square foot location on Northern Boulevard in Long Island City, which has many many different 'ethnic' sections. Of all of the locations, it has the widest range of foods of any I've been to (Gothamist article). I highly recommend checking it out if you are in the area!
Oddly enough, my wife and I frequently make it a point to hit up other Food Bazaars (and other markets) when walking around and exploring New York. Though to be honest we always visit local supermarkets while traveling too, both domestically and internationally to get a sense of the food scene and discovering awesome new ingredients. It is a fascinating peak into the super local communities that they can serve - in my neighborhood there are several Food Bazaars, and they all clearly cater to different ethnicities and the available goods can be surprisingly varied even if they are a few blocks apart.
posted by rambling wanderlust at 6:18 AM on January 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
Hmmm.... Tesco, you got the canned pumpkin, but no Marshmallow Fluff?
Every last one of my friends or relatives who lives abroad laments the absence of canned pumpkin more than anything else at all. Sometimes you just wanna bake a goddamn pie and it's gonna cost you 40 bucks to do it when you live in Switzerland.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 6:34 AM on January 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
Every last one of my friends or relatives who lives abroad laments the absence of canned pumpkin more than anything else at all. Sometimes you just wanna bake a goddamn pie and it's gonna cost you 40 bucks to do it when you live in Switzerland.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 6:34 AM on January 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
Looking at the photos in the article, it looks very likely to be my go to local Food Bazaar, the 75,000 square foot location on Northern Boulevard in Long Island City, which has many many different 'ethnic' sections. Of all of the locations, it has the widest range of foods of any I've been to (Gothamist article). I highly recommend checking it out if you are in the area!
YES oh gosh bless you. I'd had the habit of making regular visits to an Asian supermarket here in Brooklyn a couple times a year, but it was always crowded and I had been waiting until things got a little less pandemic-y - but this looks like it's a big enough place for people to be shopping without the crowds, and it looks WAY more varied and I want to go check things out, I may even make a special trip this weekend.
Do they have a food court? Fei Long has a food court where my roommate got a pork intestine noodle soup and I got a Uighur lamb pattie and we both still dream about those things.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:59 AM on January 20, 2022
YES oh gosh bless you. I'd had the habit of making regular visits to an Asian supermarket here in Brooklyn a couple times a year, but it was always crowded and I had been waiting until things got a little less pandemic-y - but this looks like it's a big enough place for people to be shopping without the crowds, and it looks WAY more varied and I want to go check things out, I may even make a special trip this weekend.
Do they have a food court? Fei Long has a food court where my roommate got a pork intestine noodle soup and I got a Uighur lamb pattie and we both still dream about those things.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:59 AM on January 20, 2022
There are few foods I don’t like, but as far as I’m concerned, Cel-Ray Soda belongs in the aisle with the cleaning products. I guess I could imagine using it as a seasoning.
They used to have Dr. Brown's black cherry soda, which I found vaguely hilarious. The ethnic cuisine of my people!
Or at least that segment of our people not hardcore enough for Cel-Ray.
At least one Asian grocery near me in Minnesota has a Mexican section—maybe that doesn’t surprise anyone but I find it interesting. I am firmly on team “don’t encourage the effing stores to reorder things again,” because they do it often enough to “increase customer engagement” anyway. What actually happens is I figure “have to relearn the layout—guess I’ll try shopping someplace else.”
I haven’t been into a Cub Foods in five years thanks to this and Hy Vee is now off the list for the same reason. Eventually I’ll be road-tripping to Ohio every six months pulling a trailer to fill up at Jungle Jim’s…
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 7:29 AM on January 20, 2022
That Food Bazaar has a very small 'food court' that isn't really worth mentioning, unlike the H-Marts or larger Chinese markets in Flushing. The good thing is that it is close to a fantastic range of restaurants, either on Steinway or in the 30-something avenues in LIC/Astoria. It is also open 24 hours a day, so it is possible to find very quiet times!
Some other markets in Queens you might enjoy (Jackson Heights and Elmhurst are pretty close to it):
posted by rambling wanderlust at 7:43 AM on January 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
Some other markets in Queens you might enjoy (Jackson Heights and Elmhurst are pretty close to it):
- Patel Brothers on 74th Street in Jackson Heights, Indian (There are a bunch of other markets nearby.)
- Small Thai grocery stores and restaurants at Woodside Ave and 77th St. in Elmhurst (Nearby Broadway is also a decent smaller Chinatown.)
- JMart in Flushing on Roosevelt Avenue, has an incredible range of Chinese and Asian ingredients and junk foods (The Chinese food courts in that area are THE BEST. Across the street is Mr. Tu Bakery, our favorite Chinese bakery - their cheese tart is out of this world.)
- H-Mart, Flushing or anywhere, many have excellent Korean food courts, and definitely compete with Food Bazaar with an excellent range of goods.
- Corona has a wide range of South American markets, bakeries, restaurants and amazing street food off of Roosevelt Avenue.
posted by rambling wanderlust at 7:43 AM on January 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
One of the things I really like about my local, big, vaguely-Korean supermarket is that they don't do this. The jalapenos and the Sichuan peppers and the bell peppers are all in the same place. (Well, the last is refrigerated, but you can see them all at the same time while standing still.) The tortillas, bagels, and buns are in the same place. They also don't do the incredibly annoying things of putting closely related products in six different places around the store for no reason at all. If I want a specific kind of thing, I pick the right temperature and then look for similar stuff and it's always right there.
The local "American" chain supermarket just makes me furious: there are at least three different cheese sections, located about as far apart from each other as possible. There's fruit in the fruit place, and in the entirely separate organic fruit place, and in the near-the-door fruit place, and sometimes randomly placed elsewhere for no apparent reason. And then there's the "ethnic" nonsense. The same exact beans will be in different places depending on whether or not there are also non-English words on the can. Same for hot sauce. Even sugar. If you're looking for a specific thing, you have to walk the entire store every time to guess where the hell it might be. I can only assume a company that big has tested that it increases sales, but it only makes me swear that I'll never shop there again. (I sometimes fail. It's on the way home and open late, and it's got a pharmacy.)
posted by eotvos at 8:16 AM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
The local "American" chain supermarket just makes me furious: there are at least three different cheese sections, located about as far apart from each other as possible. There's fruit in the fruit place, and in the entirely separate organic fruit place, and in the near-the-door fruit place, and sometimes randomly placed elsewhere for no apparent reason. And then there's the "ethnic" nonsense. The same exact beans will be in different places depending on whether or not there are also non-English words on the can. Same for hot sauce. Even sugar. If you're looking for a specific thing, you have to walk the entire store every time to guess where the hell it might be. I can only assume a company that big has tested that it increases sales, but it only makes me swear that I'll never shop there again. (I sometimes fail. It's on the way home and open late, and it's got a pharmacy.)
posted by eotvos at 8:16 AM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
We recently stumbled across this excellent explainer for Chinese ingredients, and OMG it has upped our at home Chinese game by 5000%... (Sorry, my brain is in TMI food mode now and there are so many places we shop at.)
Oh, far be it from me to stop someone when they're giving me a chance to get my food nerd on. :-)
I actually have a print version of that "explainer", sort of - a book I got in 1999 which gives that same kind of info, along with some recommended brand names. But even better is the cookbook All Under Heaven, which is beauuuuuuuutiful - it breaks down "Chinese cooking" into many of its various regional cuisines, giving many their own chapter and discussing the differences. And it's by an American expat, so she knows what she does need to explain and how to explain it to Western readers; and can make her best guesses at "well, you are most likely not going to be able to find [ingredient] in your average supermarket, so unless you find an Asian market nearby, just use [substitution] instead and [do this]". I was particularly interested in the Western desert region chapter - I have been curious about Uighur food since an ex who spent a couple years in China told me that it's "the best 4 a.m. drunk food on earth".
Although, I find that I have the best time going into different markets "blind", and letting things just sort of catch my fancy ("Hmm, this looks interesting, I'll get it - and now that I'm home, let me figure out what it is and how to use it").
I'm honestly more curious about the different Central American aisles, though!
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:47 AM on January 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
Oh, far be it from me to stop someone when they're giving me a chance to get my food nerd on. :-)
I actually have a print version of that "explainer", sort of - a book I got in 1999 which gives that same kind of info, along with some recommended brand names. But even better is the cookbook All Under Heaven, which is beauuuuuuuutiful - it breaks down "Chinese cooking" into many of its various regional cuisines, giving many their own chapter and discussing the differences. And it's by an American expat, so she knows what she does need to explain and how to explain it to Western readers; and can make her best guesses at "well, you are most likely not going to be able to find [ingredient] in your average supermarket, so unless you find an Asian market nearby, just use [substitution] instead and [do this]". I was particularly interested in the Western desert region chapter - I have been curious about Uighur food since an ex who spent a couple years in China told me that it's "the best 4 a.m. drunk food on earth".
Although, I find that I have the best time going into different markets "blind", and letting things just sort of catch my fancy ("Hmm, this looks interesting, I'll get it - and now that I'm home, let me figure out what it is and how to use it").
I'm honestly more curious about the different Central American aisles, though!
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:47 AM on January 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
tl;dr but I'm reminded of the genre debate at the bookstore. Who chooses where the book is shelved - with all the other novels, or in the Science Fiction or Mystery ghettoes?
posted by Rash at 9:08 AM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Rash at 9:08 AM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
Thanks for the cookbook recommendation, we are totally going to check it out! We've been more than a little obsessed with the wide variety of regional Chinese cuisine lately and have been walking to Flushing just about every week to pick up ingredients and explore new places. Being able to pick up the correct ingredients for the dishes has been a game changer. While I am happy to learn about decent substitutes, finding that some obscure pickle is used in a dish has changed the nuance to the point where I'm sure our neighbors wonder if they have a new Chinese neighbor sometimes. Speaking of Uighur, Nurlan Uyghur Restaurant in Flushing is on our next up place to eat at over there...
We are totally the same about picking up ingredients blind, one of our hobbies is hitting up random stores that catch our fancy and buying things that intrigue us too. If your looking for Central and South American, the areas around Junction Boulevard and 103rd Street-Corona Plaza stations off of the 7 line are the place to be or 37th avenue in the 80s/90s. The Food Bazaars on Junction are worth hitting up, but they are much smaller than the LIC one. There are countless street stalls selling lots of delicious dishes, local Central American bakery chains and lots of small markets specializing in their respective regional ingredients and other items.
Anyways, enough digressing! If you ever need any Queens recommendations, don't be afraid to reach out...
posted by rambling wanderlust at 9:26 AM on January 20, 2022
We are totally the same about picking up ingredients blind, one of our hobbies is hitting up random stores that catch our fancy and buying things that intrigue us too. If your looking for Central and South American, the areas around Junction Boulevard and 103rd Street-Corona Plaza stations off of the 7 line are the place to be or 37th avenue in the 80s/90s. The Food Bazaars on Junction are worth hitting up, but they are much smaller than the LIC one. There are countless street stalls selling lots of delicious dishes, local Central American bakery chains and lots of small markets specializing in their respective regional ingredients and other items.
Anyways, enough digressing! If you ever need any Queens recommendations, don't be afraid to reach out...
posted by rambling wanderlust at 9:26 AM on January 20, 2022
In an inverse situation, here in Singapore we have a "British" section that sells stuff from... Tesco. (At inflated prices, and marketed as kind of premium.) We do have separate sections for Korean and Japanese groceries though.
There's also the "exotic vegetables" section where you can find celeriac, parsnips and brussels sprouts.
posted by destrius at 9:37 AM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
There's also the "exotic vegetables" section where you can find celeriac, parsnips and brussels sprouts.
posted by destrius at 9:37 AM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
I have been curious about Uighur food since an ex who spent a couple years in China told me that it's "the best 4 a.m. drunk food on earth".
Come into Manhattan and have the big tray chicken at Spicy Village! But bring a friend. (Or call me.) It is big.
posted by praemunire at 9:46 AM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Come into Manhattan and have the big tray chicken at Spicy Village! But bring a friend. (Or call me.) It is big.
posted by praemunire at 9:46 AM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
do taco shells go under Baked Goods with the bread and wraps,
Here's a simple rule: if you can make a sandwich with it, it's bread, and if you can't, it isn't. Using that rule, it should be abundantly clear how to classify hot dog buns, tortillas, and wonton wrappers.
(If I can't solve semantic problems, the next best thing is to take two small problems and squish them together into one big one.)
posted by jackbishop at 9:51 AM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Here's a simple rule: if you can make a sandwich with it, it's bread, and if you can't, it isn't. Using that rule, it should be abundantly clear how to classify hot dog buns, tortillas, and wonton wrappers.
(If I can't solve semantic problems, the next best thing is to take two small problems and squish them together into one big one.)
posted by jackbishop at 9:51 AM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
I was reading this and thinking that I didn't really have a good handle on how the furrin' food was distributed at my local supermarket...but that's at least partially because I am very fortunate in where I live (Waterloo, Ontario) because we have a huge foreign student and immigrant/multigen presence so there are SEVERAL asian groceries including dedicated korean and japanese ones, a number of Indian groceries (man, you want cheap spices, go to Onkar. also it's worth paying extra for the "hand made" vs the "machine made" samosas. Samosae? Anyway), a couple of South American/Latino markets, an Ethiopian market that sells fresh injera, and that's of course to say nothing of all the germanic and italian and easteuro delis and specialty shops. AND two huge farmer's markets. In certain parts of the season we'd probably not go to the supermarket at all except to buy oat milk and/or breakfast cereal.
Specific shout out to the T&T supermarket that opened a couple of years ago less than 5 minutes drive from my house, I guess it's a small one for the brand, but all I know is the frozen dumpling section alone is bigger than the "asian" section in most conventional groceries and that's good enough for me. OH AND PLUS you can buy steamed dumplings from the food court as a reward for your shopping travails. And maybe an onigiri or two. ...and some prawn crackers so fresh they are still dripping with grease. ...and some coconut buns... and...
posted by hearthpig at 9:59 AM on January 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
Specific shout out to the T&T supermarket that opened a couple of years ago less than 5 minutes drive from my house, I guess it's a small one for the brand, but all I know is the frozen dumpling section alone is bigger than the "asian" section in most conventional groceries and that's good enough for me. OH AND PLUS you can buy steamed dumplings from the food court as a reward for your shopping travails. And maybe an onigiri or two. ...and some prawn crackers so fresh they are still dripping with grease. ...and some coconut buns... and...
posted by hearthpig at 9:59 AM on January 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
Just popping in to note that my local grocery store still has an aisle marker for "New Age Beverages," which as far as I can tell originally meant that's where you could find Snapple.
posted by Banky_Edwards at 10:13 AM on January 20, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by Banky_Edwards at 10:13 AM on January 20, 2022 [11 favorites]
Banky_Edwards, you just made my day today, thank you! :)
posted by Melismata at 10:22 AM on January 20, 2022
posted by Melismata at 10:22 AM on January 20, 2022
Here's a simple rule: if you can make a sandwich with it, it's bread, and if you can't, it isn't.It's like watching your childhood friend throw stones toward a beehive. To add fuel to the fire, I personally think it's useful that seaweed isn't shelved beside bagels.
That "new age beverages" is entirely comprehensible is fascinating. I'm also now imagining a shelf full of pot drinks, ayahuasca, synthetic hallucinogens, bodily fluids harvested from OTO devotees. . .
posted by eotvos at 10:30 AM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
This reminds me of internet people having long philosphical arguments about the difference between fantasy and science-fiction while bookstores are like, "We just wanna put things where people are used to finding them."
posted by straight at 11:12 AM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by straight at 11:12 AM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Here's a simple rule: if you can make a sandwich with it, it's bread, and if you can't, it isn't.
Recall to mind the fact that we live in a nation where a major fast food restaurant made a "sandwich" out of nothing but chicken cutlets.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:14 AM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Recall to mind the fact that we live in a nation where a major fast food restaurant made a "sandwich" out of nothing but chicken cutlets.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:14 AM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
I like the "Global Flavors" nomenclature.
posted by davebarnes at 11:20 AM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by davebarnes at 11:20 AM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
There are two grocery chains where I live. One puts black olives in the canned fruit aisle while the other puts them in the canned vegetable aisle. I shudder to think what they'd do with salsas if it were not for the Mexican aisles they have.
posted by tommasz at 1:30 PM on January 20, 2022
posted by tommasz at 1:30 PM on January 20, 2022
One puts black olives in the canned fruit aisle
Botanically correct, tho. Which would also tell you where to find tomato salsa.
posted by clew at 2:00 PM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
Botanically correct, tho. Which would also tell you where to find tomato salsa.
posted by clew at 2:00 PM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
It's difficult to articulate just how bland mainstream American cuisine was in the 80s
Yeah, I consider “fish” exotic based on my Midwest upbringing. I never had fish outside of fish sticks until well into adulthood. Now kids order sushi like it’s meat and potatoes! It’s great, and I wish I had that accessibility growing up. We had two meals we got for takeout (never delivery), tavern style cracker crust pizza or greasy Chinese. Mom still refuses to try Thai or Indian. The other “exotic” foods we had were gyros or tacos, both made from kits that came with all of the ingredients from the store. I do remember as a kid that the international aisle was VERY small, maybe just a few feet with mostly Mexican food in it. When it got Indian it blew my mind.
When I lived in England in the 90s I walked all the way across the Tyne river in Newcastle to another town to go to the big Tesco because it had an American aisle. One thing I had to have shipped over from my parents was crispy fried onions for a Thanksgiving casserole.
posted by Bunglegirl at 2:43 PM on January 20, 2022
Yeah, I consider “fish” exotic based on my Midwest upbringing. I never had fish outside of fish sticks until well into adulthood. Now kids order sushi like it’s meat and potatoes! It’s great, and I wish I had that accessibility growing up. We had two meals we got for takeout (never delivery), tavern style cracker crust pizza or greasy Chinese. Mom still refuses to try Thai or Indian. The other “exotic” foods we had were gyros or tacos, both made from kits that came with all of the ingredients from the store. I do remember as a kid that the international aisle was VERY small, maybe just a few feet with mostly Mexican food in it. When it got Indian it blew my mind.
When I lived in England in the 90s I walked all the way across the Tyne river in Newcastle to another town to go to the big Tesco because it had an American aisle. One thing I had to have shipped over from my parents was crispy fried onions for a Thanksgiving casserole.
posted by Bunglegirl at 2:43 PM on January 20, 2022
I did the same with cranberry sauce last week! Turns out it's not a condiment, and for some reason is in the canned fruit section. I mean, I know why it's there, but I sure wouldn't put a pile of it on some cottage cheese
rhizome, it's good on yogurt!
I suppose it might be good on cottage cheese if I liked cottage cheese.
posted by yohko at 2:43 PM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
rhizome, it's good on yogurt!
I suppose it might be good on cottage cheese if I liked cottage cheese.
posted by yohko at 2:43 PM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
There are a lot of the experiences here I can recognize.
I live in two places, one in the densest part of Denmark, with the most diverse population, and the other in one of the most remote areas, albeit with a huge tourist population for 8 weeks every year.
At my local supermarket in Copenhagen, there is definitely an "exotic" aisle, with all the pasta and rice on one side and all the ready to eat sauces and also tortillas on the other. This is for people who enjoy tex-mex or industrial-Italian or tourist Thai cuisines. But it is short. Most people in my neighborhood cook from scratch or buy take-out, the in-between option is not big. And the supermarket brand is to be the most sustainable supermarket in the nation, if you want any products that are outside of that niche, you are steps away from all sorts of immigrant owned groceries who do it better. They did try to accommodate the Muslim population some years ago by having a Ramadan theme, but they couldn't really compete with local groceries and butchers on price.
On the other hand, near my workplace, a big suburban university with a diverse staff and student body far away from any of the areas where poorer immigrants live, the supermarket has two huge international aisles (with a US and UK section) that clearly is there for the expats, and they have really interesting products, but the prices are insane.
At my local supermarket in a small village in Northern Jutland, there is no international aisle at all, but there are cardboard promotional stands with tex-mex and some simple sushi products. And you might think they were very traditional in their range. But you would be wrong. Because there are a lot of products spread all over the aisles to accommodate the local immigrants. You will find ful medames and other "ethnic" legumes next to the baked beans, and a choice of sauerkrauts next to the red cabbage, there is a whole shelf of Turkish pantry staples right next to the Danish pantry staples, and pancetta in the same space in the fridge as Danish pork.
I feel there is a really interesting antropological project here somehow.
posted by mumimor at 2:59 PM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
I live in two places, one in the densest part of Denmark, with the most diverse population, and the other in one of the most remote areas, albeit with a huge tourist population for 8 weeks every year.
At my local supermarket in Copenhagen, there is definitely an "exotic" aisle, with all the pasta and rice on one side and all the ready to eat sauces and also tortillas on the other. This is for people who enjoy tex-mex or industrial-Italian or tourist Thai cuisines. But it is short. Most people in my neighborhood cook from scratch or buy take-out, the in-between option is not big. And the supermarket brand is to be the most sustainable supermarket in the nation, if you want any products that are outside of that niche, you are steps away from all sorts of immigrant owned groceries who do it better. They did try to accommodate the Muslim population some years ago by having a Ramadan theme, but they couldn't really compete with local groceries and butchers on price.
On the other hand, near my workplace, a big suburban university with a diverse staff and student body far away from any of the areas where poorer immigrants live, the supermarket has two huge international aisles (with a US and UK section) that clearly is there for the expats, and they have really interesting products, but the prices are insane.
At my local supermarket in a small village in Northern Jutland, there is no international aisle at all, but there are cardboard promotional stands with tex-mex and some simple sushi products. And you might think they were very traditional in their range. But you would be wrong. Because there are a lot of products spread all over the aisles to accommodate the local immigrants. You will find ful medames and other "ethnic" legumes next to the baked beans, and a choice of sauerkrauts next to the red cabbage, there is a whole shelf of Turkish pantry staples right next to the Danish pantry staples, and pancetta in the same space in the fridge as Danish pork.
I feel there is a really interesting antropological project here somehow.
posted by mumimor at 2:59 PM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
There is an international market in my city with most of the aisle labels simply being city names around the world. Freezer case perpendicular to the aisles, so frozen foods can be near their cites.
There's also separate sections for meat and seafood, fresh produce, packaged beverages, tea, and packaged ramen. So much ramen from around the world -- I guess it's there version of the ethnic aisle. Better quality Japanese noodles for ramen are in the Tokyo or Osaka aisles.
posted by yohko at 3:00 PM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
There's also separate sections for meat and seafood, fresh produce, packaged beverages, tea, and packaged ramen. So much ramen from around the world -- I guess it's there version of the ethnic aisle. Better quality Japanese noodles for ramen are in the Tokyo or Osaka aisles.
posted by yohko at 3:00 PM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Melismata, my friend foud a Sacred heart of Jesus candle at a snarky yard sale. it was labeled Works $1. *Of course* she bought it for me.
posted by theora55 at 3:12 PM on January 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 3:12 PM on January 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
The 'Natural Food' section in one of the groceries in my area seems to be operated by a separate entity. The same chain has a Warm Beer aisle label. But they have Marmite, which I like a lot, and Spotted Dick, which I haven't tried, in the Ethic Aisle.
Just as Pepsi stocks the Pepsi section, a vendor may stock an ethnic section.
I remember when my brother taught us to make nachos, and they were considered exotic, because I grew up in Ohio with extremely limited access to interesting food, although the corn and tomatoes, in season, are fantastic. I like to read prepper stuff, and people seldom remember how much they love food variety. Stock soy sauce, hot sauce, canned jalapenos, masa, friends. Learn to make tortillas, cause you'll crave them. And, realistically, fish sauce never goes bad.
posted by theora55 at 3:28 PM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
Just as Pepsi stocks the Pepsi section, a vendor may stock an ethnic section.
I remember when my brother taught us to make nachos, and they were considered exotic, because I grew up in Ohio with extremely limited access to interesting food, although the corn and tomatoes, in season, are fantastic. I like to read prepper stuff, and people seldom remember how much they love food variety. Stock soy sauce, hot sauce, canned jalapenos, masa, friends. Learn to make tortillas, cause you'll crave them. And, realistically, fish sauce never goes bad.
posted by theora55 at 3:28 PM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
I can confirm that canned cranberry sauce - while not as good as homemade cranberry sauce - is definitely good on cottage cheese (if you like cottage cheese).
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:41 PM on January 20, 2022
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:41 PM on January 20, 2022
I never had fish outside of fish sticks until well into adulthood.
Cod. And fried smelt. *sigh* Dig in, kids!
posted by praemunire at 5:15 PM on January 20, 2022
Cod. And fried smelt. *sigh* Dig in, kids!
posted by praemunire at 5:15 PM on January 20, 2022
One thing I had to have shipped over from my parents was crispy fried onions for a Thanksgiving casserole.
Ha. That is one of the things in my Canadian international aisle.
posted by Mitheral at 6:52 PM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Ha. That is one of the things in my Canadian international aisle.
posted by Mitheral at 6:52 PM on January 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
I was thinking that cranberry sauce would just be too tart on cottage cheese, but apparently my sweet tooth is going blind in its old age. Perhaps I'll try it. But still! I think it's reasonable to think of it as a condiment first.
I too come from a land where I didn't knowingly eat or cook with garlic until well after I moved out to go to college. Even so, my mom tells a story about when she was growing up in Oakland, the cool thing to do in high school in the earlymid 50s was to go out with her friends to eat this new ethnic food called "pizza."
Since the turn of the millenium my lily-white suburban hometown has had an amazing influx of immigrants and brown people in general, chiefly Indian and Asian people whom, I'm guessing, survived their H1B grinds at the various technology companies in the area such that they were able to buy houses in the valley here. (More than one of my mom's neighbors has moved away because of it, which is amazing in a much different way) The end result has been the abovementioned separation and integration of ethnic ingredients on the shelves, as well as things like not just Indian restaurants, but at least 3 or 4 different subtypes of Indian restaurant. There is a Hong Kong style bakery here that is comparable to the best ones up the west coast of the US, and so on. My mom still doesn't intentionally eat garlic, so it's rare that I have a chance to really dig in to their menus, but even just driving around I love passing by and assuming that even if I'm missing out, it's probably pretty excellent.
posted by rhizome at 8:19 PM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
I too come from a land where I didn't knowingly eat or cook with garlic until well after I moved out to go to college. Even so, my mom tells a story about when she was growing up in Oakland, the cool thing to do in high school in the earlymid 50s was to go out with her friends to eat this new ethnic food called "pizza."
Since the turn of the millenium my lily-white suburban hometown has had an amazing influx of immigrants and brown people in general, chiefly Indian and Asian people whom, I'm guessing, survived their H1B grinds at the various technology companies in the area such that they were able to buy houses in the valley here. (More than one of my mom's neighbors has moved away because of it, which is amazing in a much different way) The end result has been the abovementioned separation and integration of ethnic ingredients on the shelves, as well as things like not just Indian restaurants, but at least 3 or 4 different subtypes of Indian restaurant. There is a Hong Kong style bakery here that is comparable to the best ones up the west coast of the US, and so on. My mom still doesn't intentionally eat garlic, so it's rare that I have a chance to really dig in to their menus, but even just driving around I love passing by and assuming that even if I'm missing out, it's probably pretty excellent.
posted by rhizome at 8:19 PM on January 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
Reportings from Sydney, Dr. Pepper and A&W root beer is in the ethnic aisle with other American food. Let me tell you that another culture's interpretation of what are flagship products of your country can be interesting. They give me marshmallow fluff but no graham crackers is a cruel mockery.
posted by jadepearl at 11:19 PM on January 20, 2022
posted by jadepearl at 11:19 PM on January 20, 2022
The international/world foods section of my supermarket in the UK has mainly Caribbean, Polish, Indian and Irish food. There may be a few other bits and pieces that I can't recall.
We used to have Polish food and Indian ingredients only in the international section, but now they're a bit more integrated. Caribbean ingredients tend to be in the international section, including duplication, where for example coconut milk is in the tinned food section, and in the Caribbean section (different brands). This also extends to online shopping, where you can browse to different sections. However if you search, it will just look through the whole online store. Which is, I think, how come I ended up ordering a box of Nestle powdered milk, but getting it substituted with a tin of callaloo.
posted by plonkee at 8:49 AM on January 21, 2022
We used to have Polish food and Indian ingredients only in the international section, but now they're a bit more integrated. Caribbean ingredients tend to be in the international section, including duplication, where for example coconut milk is in the tinned food section, and in the Caribbean section (different brands). This also extends to online shopping, where you can browse to different sections. However if you search, it will just look through the whole online store. Which is, I think, how come I ended up ordering a box of Nestle powdered milk, but getting it substituted with a tin of callaloo.
posted by plonkee at 8:49 AM on January 21, 2022
Pre-Internet, I think it made a lot of sense to have an ethnic foods aisle. If you were trying to get some standard White American White Rice the salient variables were the brand, size of the bag, and whether or not it was "minute" rice. For practical purposes, there only was one kind of rice, and any other type was going to be a specialty item. Trying to substitute without knowing about the product would have been tricky at best. Where the potential racism comes in is when you start stocking Italian short-grain risotto rice next to the "regular" rice but the Japanese short-grain sushi rice goes into the "ethnic" aisle. Personally, I would prefer all the rices together. Perhaps that's because I tend to cook from a variety of cuisines, but once you learn your rice types it's fun to substitute say, a fragrant basmati for a standard long-grain.
Our town is pretty white, I am curious to see if the still-extant ethnic aisles survive. There are several smaller Mexican markets and one large east Asian supermarket in town, and multiple large and small markets within 15 minutes ranging from huge pan-Asian superstores to tiny storefronts that only offer, say, Korean products. So any person who wanted to shop exclusively within their regional, and possibly even national milleu would have no trouble doing so, with staff that spoke their language and at a significantly lower price. So I have to conclude, at least in my area, that it's for the benefit of white people who are dabbling in cuisines other than European ones.
posted by wnissen at 1:28 PM on January 21, 2022
Our town is pretty white, I am curious to see if the still-extant ethnic aisles survive. There are several smaller Mexican markets and one large east Asian supermarket in town, and multiple large and small markets within 15 minutes ranging from huge pan-Asian superstores to tiny storefronts that only offer, say, Korean products. So any person who wanted to shop exclusively within their regional, and possibly even national milleu would have no trouble doing so, with staff that spoke their language and at a significantly lower price. So I have to conclude, at least in my area, that it's for the benefit of white people who are dabbling in cuisines other than European ones.
posted by wnissen at 1:28 PM on January 21, 2022
'Irish' sections here (UK, specifically Scotland) seem mostly to be stuff available from Northern Irish distributors. The Taytos are the wrong sort for this Dubliner and they never have plain Kimberlys, just the chocolate covered ones.
Also, the warning label on Red Lemonade is horrific. I have decided the kids can grow up without that particular part of their heritage.
posted by hfnuala at 4:15 PM on January 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
Also, the warning label on Red Lemonade is horrific. I have decided the kids can grow up without that particular part of their heritage.
posted by hfnuala at 4:15 PM on January 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
...but that's at least partially because I am very fortunate in where I live (Waterloo, Ontario)
Hearthpig, there's also a west African grocery store on Victoria in Kitchener. And in some local stores there is also the "ethnic" foods of Newfoundland available. There's even a Filipino - Newfoundlander store in the east end that sells Filipino products beside Purity products, Hawkins cheezies, and birch beer. It never fails to impress me that we have so many places to buy such a wide range of food for such a relatively small area. Incidentally, T&T is owned by Loblaws which is partially why it might be so well stocked.
posted by Ashwagandha at 7:00 AM on January 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
Hearthpig, there's also a west African grocery store on Victoria in Kitchener. And in some local stores there is also the "ethnic" foods of Newfoundland available. There's even a Filipino - Newfoundlander store in the east end that sells Filipino products beside Purity products, Hawkins cheezies, and birch beer. It never fails to impress me that we have so many places to buy such a wide range of food for such a relatively small area. Incidentally, T&T is owned by Loblaws which is partially why it might be so well stocked.
posted by Ashwagandha at 7:00 AM on January 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
« Older Choo-choo motherclucker | The Latest in a Long Series of Body Blows Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 2:36 PM on January 19, 2022 [14 favorites]