Sexual harassment in the Portland, Oregon film community
March 11, 2022 12:49 PM Subscribe
Multiple women have been harassed by Christian Kane and Timothy Hutton of Leverage. As a fan of Leverage and The Librarians, I'm really disappointed to hear that Christian Kane was apparently sexually harassing employees while filming was going on for those shows. Women reported it, nothing happened (shocking, I know). A camera operator and a producer are also cited as sexually harassing in the article.
Rose said that Dean Devlin, the show's producer, helped create this type of atmosphere.
“It was very clear that there was a boys’ club on that show and it involved Dean,” said Rose. “He didn’t stop it. There was a lot of behavior on set that I know people saw, but then didn’t do anything.” The company denies any reports of sexual harassment happened.
Timothy Hutton is also cited as sexually harassing and terrorizing staff in this article, as well as presumably getting several women fired for objecting. Hutton was previously accused of rape in the 80's but was cleared. Nevertheless, he wasn't brought back on Leverage: Redemption, with the show killing him offscreen. Hutton is now suing the production.
Electric Entertainment's public response to the lawsuit sounded fine at the time, but now, well....
Rose said that Dean Devlin, the show's producer, helped create this type of atmosphere.
“It was very clear that there was a boys’ club on that show and it involved Dean,” said Rose. “He didn’t stop it. There was a lot of behavior on set that I know people saw, but then didn’t do anything.” The company denies any reports of sexual harassment happened.
Timothy Hutton is also cited as sexually harassing and terrorizing staff in this article, as well as presumably getting several women fired for objecting. Hutton was previously accused of rape in the 80's but was cleared. Nevertheless, he wasn't brought back on Leverage: Redemption, with the show killing him offscreen. Hutton is now suing the production.
Electric Entertainment's public response to the lawsuit sounded fine at the time, but now, well....
“We take allegations of sexual assault very seriously, especially when children are involved,” a representative for Electric said. “Despite dealing with these allegations for years, Mr. Hutton failed to disclose them to us before or during negotiations for him to reprise his role in Leverage: Redemption. Consequently, once we learned of the allegations in the press, we ceased negotiations with him and chose to move on without him."
It can take less than one day of training with a sexual violence practitioner to show almost everyone in almost any size organisation how to identify, interrupt and eliminate sexual harassment. I'm not surprised it is an article that brings all this to the surface. Odds are they'll be trawling stand up shows looking for sympathy in a year or two so watch for that.
posted by parmanparman at 1:55 PM on March 11, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by parmanparman at 1:55 PM on March 11, 2022 [9 favorites]
I was really invested in the first Leverage, and had a soft spot for Timothy Hutton before I heard the story as the Redemption sequel was starting, as well as Christian Kane (basically, I loved the whole crew.)
Every so often it seems the entire world is a milkshake duck waiting to happen, especially if I wrote fanfic about the person in question.
posted by PussKillian at 1:56 PM on March 11, 2022 [15 favorites]
Every so often it seems the entire world is a milkshake duck waiting to happen, especially if I wrote fanfic about the person in question.
posted by PussKillian at 1:56 PM on March 11, 2022 [15 favorites]
Please tell me Aldis Hodge isn't an abuser too?
posted by mon_petit_ordinateur at 2:17 PM on March 11, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by mon_petit_ordinateur at 2:17 PM on March 11, 2022 [5 favorites]
Dammit.
posted by Faintdreams at 2:23 PM on March 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Faintdreams at 2:23 PM on March 11, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm not shocked to keep seeing stuff like this from the industry in general, but I had a better impression of Leverage as a production than this. Especially since they dropped Hutton like a rock once he was accused of rape. I only found out about that once the Leverage revival started and I was left wondering why he alone was written out of the show. That kinda leaves me surprised to hear that Kane was also a problem (and that producers were ignoring or covering for it, etc). Guess that was naive of me.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:43 PM on March 11, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:43 PM on March 11, 2022 [4 favorites]
Long article, tough read. Some key points:
The specific allegations around Kane extend to sexual jokes, pressuring someone to meet alone, and an unwelcome kiss on the neck. That all seems pretty innocent, but the really damning part is that multiple people said they felt that they couldn't safely report bad behavior from their male colleagues due to a "boy's club"/"summer camp"/"what happens on location stays on location" culture. Those who did report bad behavior (behavior that wouldn't be accepted on other productions) say they did not have their concerns addressed, and believe they faced retaliation.
The unspoken power dynamic between a lead actor and a crewperson makes any flirting or dating fraught. Basic consent: If you can't really say "no", then you can't really say "yes". If somebody has the power to influence if you have a job tomorrow, consent becomes ...complex. Professional productions need to be holding people in power to a higher standard, and applying the same kind of ethical rules that are applied to doctors or professors. According to the many people interviewed for this article, other productions outside of Portland do maintain that decorum.
Unfortunately, the details around Hutton are worse. Reports say that he was difficult to work with and abusive to underlings. The specific sexual harassment incident cited was a groping that can't be rationalized as anything other than sexual harassment. Due to the culture issues mentioned above, the victim didn't try to make a formal report at the time out of fear of retaliation. This makes any accountability difficult, because now the production company can claim that they had no reason to think any action was needed.
No other cast members were named in the article. Several male crewpersons were called out for inappropriate touching and jokes. The set medic who declined Kane's advances was suddenly reassigned and had her hours cut.
posted by MikeKozar at 3:50 PM on March 11, 2022 [14 favorites]
The specific allegations around Kane extend to sexual jokes, pressuring someone to meet alone, and an unwelcome kiss on the neck. That all seems pretty innocent, but the really damning part is that multiple people said they felt that they couldn't safely report bad behavior from their male colleagues due to a "boy's club"/"summer camp"/"what happens on location stays on location" culture. Those who did report bad behavior (behavior that wouldn't be accepted on other productions) say they did not have their concerns addressed, and believe they faced retaliation.
The unspoken power dynamic between a lead actor and a crewperson makes any flirting or dating fraught. Basic consent: If you can't really say "no", then you can't really say "yes". If somebody has the power to influence if you have a job tomorrow, consent becomes ...complex. Professional productions need to be holding people in power to a higher standard, and applying the same kind of ethical rules that are applied to doctors or professors. According to the many people interviewed for this article, other productions outside of Portland do maintain that decorum.
Unfortunately, the details around Hutton are worse. Reports say that he was difficult to work with and abusive to underlings. The specific sexual harassment incident cited was a groping that can't be rationalized as anything other than sexual harassment. Due to the culture issues mentioned above, the victim didn't try to make a formal report at the time out of fear of retaliation. This makes any accountability difficult, because now the production company can claim that they had no reason to think any action was needed.
No other cast members were named in the article. Several male crewpersons were called out for inappropriate touching and jokes. The set medic who declined Kane's advances was suddenly reassigned and had her hours cut.
posted by MikeKozar at 3:50 PM on March 11, 2022 [14 favorites]
I actually have a little prayer that as a non-religious person I don't really do regularly but I legit sometimes direct intention at the Powers That Be that a small set of men, mostly b-ish tier in entertainment and mostly in comedy, turn out not to be monsters:
posted by Shepherd at 4:16 PM on March 11, 2022 [11 favorites]
- Paul F Tompkins
- Ben Schwartz
- Craig Ferguson
- Jesse Thorn and Jordan Morris
- Adam Scott
- Michael Ian Black
posted by Shepherd at 4:16 PM on March 11, 2022 [11 favorites]
I hate the way that my "I would be surprised if this person milkshake ducks" list keeps getting shorter and shorter.
posted by Lexica at 4:42 PM on March 11, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by Lexica at 4:42 PM on March 11, 2022 [6 favorites]
Sometimes you find out that someone famous was/is a mensch. Like Conrad Veidt, who starred in the first pro-gay film and was an anti-Nazi (despite his role in Casablanca). Or Alison Arngrim, who played the awful Nellie Olson in Little House, but in real life campaigned for people with AIDS in the 1980s.
I try not to overly identify with any creator or performer, because I'm very aware of how much I don't know who they really are - other than not their art. That said, sometimes there are people like Terry Pratchett who seem to have just spent their lives making good art and generally being lovely people. (I can personally attest to Pratchett's public graciousness to his fans, even when really, really tired and jet-lagged).
posted by jb at 5:42 PM on March 11, 2022 [15 favorites]
I try not to overly identify with any creator or performer, because I'm very aware of how much I don't know who they really are - other than not their art. That said, sometimes there are people like Terry Pratchett who seem to have just spent their lives making good art and generally being lovely people. (I can personally attest to Pratchett's public graciousness to his fans, even when really, really tired and jet-lagged).
posted by jb at 5:42 PM on March 11, 2022 [15 favorites]
I've also heard rumours that one of the reasons that Keanu Reeves has been so successful is that he is also a very nice person to work with. He's talented, of course, but so are many people - and who wouldn't want to work with someone who is nice as well?
posted by jb at 5:43 PM on March 11, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by jb at 5:43 PM on March 11, 2022 [8 favorites]
My heart aches for the women who have had to deal with this disrespectful, shameful, horrifying, harassment. I'm sad, and I'm angry. They deserve better. They deserve justice.
What strikes me is how often things happen, and nobody who wasn't directly affected says anything. Nobody says, "hey that's not ok." to the person behaving badly. Nobody goes and tells the person who was affected that, "hey, that wasn't ok." Nobody writes an email.
The way to keep an individual incident from becoming harassment is to act when you see it. The silence around these things is tacit approval for them to repeat. I hope that people reading this understand that it wasn't just the people who harassed others who did wrong, it is everyone who didn't stand up for the people when they were wronged.
posted by Chrysopoeia at 5:56 PM on March 11, 2022 [11 favorites]
What strikes me is how often things happen, and nobody who wasn't directly affected says anything. Nobody says, "hey that's not ok." to the person behaving badly. Nobody goes and tells the person who was affected that, "hey, that wasn't ok." Nobody writes an email.
The way to keep an individual incident from becoming harassment is to act when you see it. The silence around these things is tacit approval for them to repeat. I hope that people reading this understand that it wasn't just the people who harassed others who did wrong, it is everyone who didn't stand up for the people when they were wronged.
posted by Chrysopoeia at 5:56 PM on March 11, 2022 [11 favorites]
The specific allegations around Kane extend to sexual jokes, pressuring someone to meet alone, and an unwelcome kiss on the neck. That all seems pretty innocent,
No, it does not seem "pretty innocent." Especially "an unwelcome kiss." Dismissing those things is how serial abusers continue to get away with doing them, and then escalating.
posted by cooker girl at 6:35 PM on March 11, 2022 [67 favorites]
No, it does not seem "pretty innocent." Especially "an unwelcome kiss." Dismissing those things is how serial abusers continue to get away with doing them, and then escalating.
posted by cooker girl at 6:35 PM on March 11, 2022 [67 favorites]
No, it does not seem "pretty innocent." Especially "an unwelcome kiss." Dismissing those things is how serial abusers continue to get away with doing them, and then escalating.
Cookergirl yes I agree. If any of those things were done to me, by anyone, let alone someone I have to work with, let alone someone with actual power over me, I'd be majorly horrified.
Is it because I'm female and constantly have to run the script of "is he going to be a creep? " and " oh god he's being a creep, do I really have to deal with this or can I ignore it and hope he'll go away" and " damn do I REALLY have to give all this brain space to whether x is *really* unacceptable or whether *I* am over reacting".
Knowing that if I share my unease with any of the male people involved who might otherwise have my back, they will a) go to the ends of the earth to find explanations for why I could maybe interpret the incident differently B) tell me the person who is frightening me is "only an awkward nerd" /didn't mean it that way /really a good guy c) and then they will finish off with some choice advice on how I should keep myself safe by (insert lessons I had to learn since I was a very small child) with the cherry on top implication that I'm at fault if I don't follow their advice, and conveniently side stepping any responsibility THEY might have in this situation.
Whoops that turned into a rant.
posted by Zumbador at 8:48 PM on March 11, 2022 [26 favorites]
Cookergirl yes I agree. If any of those things were done to me, by anyone, let alone someone I have to work with, let alone someone with actual power over me, I'd be majorly horrified.
Is it because I'm female and constantly have to run the script of "is he going to be a creep? " and " oh god he's being a creep, do I really have to deal with this or can I ignore it and hope he'll go away" and " damn do I REALLY have to give all this brain space to whether x is *really* unacceptable or whether *I* am over reacting".
Knowing that if I share my unease with any of the male people involved who might otherwise have my back, they will a) go to the ends of the earth to find explanations for why I could maybe interpret the incident differently B) tell me the person who is frightening me is "only an awkward nerd" /didn't mean it that way /really a good guy c) and then they will finish off with some choice advice on how I should keep myself safe by (insert lessons I had to learn since I was a very small child) with the cherry on top implication that I'm at fault if I don't follow their advice, and conveniently side stepping any responsibility THEY might have in this situation.
Whoops that turned into a rant.
posted by Zumbador at 8:48 PM on March 11, 2022 [26 favorites]
Still waiting to hear from showrunner John Rogers about this. He's always seemed like a good guy, but I can't believe that he didn't know if it was this bad.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:44 PM on March 11, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:44 PM on March 11, 2022 [7 favorites]
dispiriting.
posted by lapolla at 4:46 AM on March 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by lapolla at 4:46 AM on March 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'll admit I was always confused by the casting of Timothy Hutton in the first place. I assumed he had something compromising on the producers and that seemed like the most likely explanation for his presence (let alone as a LEAD) in the show.
posted by some loser at 5:00 AM on March 12, 2022
posted by some loser at 5:00 AM on March 12, 2022
Gotta say, I really dislike the phrasing of saying Hutton was "cleared" of the rape charge. It implies he was declared 'not guilty' or that his accuser was proved to be lying, when instead it's just that the state chose not to prosecute the case. I can kind of understand the prosecution deciding that they were unlikely to make a conviction in the case (from what was reported the accuser's stupid ex-boyfriend tried to 'help' in a way that made it seem like he was trying to extort Hutton on her behalf) and choosing not to go to trial. But I still believe her allegations, and it really saddens me to think that she's going to have to deal with a world of trolls calling her a liar forever now that her name is out there from going public.
posted by oh yeah! at 5:38 AM on March 12, 2022 [15 favorites]
posted by oh yeah! at 5:38 AM on March 12, 2022 [15 favorites]
not that there's a "good" way to be harassed but when your harasser is a dude whose whole thing is being able to not only act but beat the shit out of people...
posted by snerson at 6:01 AM on March 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by snerson at 6:01 AM on March 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
I've also heard rumours that one of the reasons that Keanu Reeves has been so successful is that he is also a very nice person to work with.
His Speed co-star has a similar reputation. Reportedly, Alfonso Cuarón could have gotten his pick of any number of top actresses for Gravity. The film was wildly effects-heavy and based overwhelmingly on a single character. He said something to the effect of how if the entire crew was going to have to spend twelve to sixteen hours a day six days a week in close quarters with one person for several months, it made sense to pick someone as universally well-liked and personable as Sandra Bullock.
The long careers of people that nice make total sense.
What I want to know is how do people like Timothy Hutton manage long careers while apparently being an asshole the entire time?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:09 AM on March 12, 2022 [11 favorites]
His Speed co-star has a similar reputation. Reportedly, Alfonso Cuarón could have gotten his pick of any number of top actresses for Gravity. The film was wildly effects-heavy and based overwhelmingly on a single character. He said something to the effect of how if the entire crew was going to have to spend twelve to sixteen hours a day six days a week in close quarters with one person for several months, it made sense to pick someone as universally well-liked and personable as Sandra Bullock.
The long careers of people that nice make total sense.
What I want to know is how do people like Timothy Hutton manage long careers while apparently being an asshole the entire time?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:09 AM on March 12, 2022 [11 favorites]
I think I want to say here that's it's so, so possible to do things better. I work adjacent to this industry in the land of theatre tech and I've had the luck to have bosses (and professors before that) take me seriously when I report creepy awful behavior to them. More than once: more than one creeper, more than one guy-who-is-in-charge. Men have been laid-off midday, moved somewhere to work far apart from any women and not rehired, talked to sternly enough that they stopped creeping at least on that job. Some creeps got called out hard enough that they apologized. (That scene is always awkward and weird, but it should happen in front of other people.)
Bosses can do better. I've seen it happen and been the reporter of shit behavior more than a few times. It doesn't really cost much more than a little inconvenience. Fire the creepers.
posted by lauranesson at 8:20 AM on March 12, 2022 [13 favorites]
Bosses can do better. I've seen it happen and been the reporter of shit behavior more than a few times. It doesn't really cost much more than a little inconvenience. Fire the creepers.
posted by lauranesson at 8:20 AM on March 12, 2022 [13 favorites]
Well, this is hugely depressing. Leverage is one of my comforting shows, that I go to for a utopian vision of justice enacted by highly skilled and kind people.
To hear that Christian Kane has done this kind of rotten, disrespectful thing??? Ugh. And made scarier by the fact that he does his own fight stunt work, so I know physical intimidation as well as power intimidation are very much a possibility.
Heartbreaking and gross.
And yes, I'd very much like to hear from John Rogers.
posted by SaharaRose at 8:28 AM on March 12, 2022 [7 favorites]
To hear that Christian Kane has done this kind of rotten, disrespectful thing??? Ugh. And made scarier by the fact that he does his own fight stunt work, so I know physical intimidation as well as power intimidation are very much a possibility.
Heartbreaking and gross.
And yes, I'd very much like to hear from John Rogers.
posted by SaharaRose at 8:28 AM on March 12, 2022 [7 favorites]
The specific allegations around Kane extend to sexual jokes, pressuring someone to meet alone, and an unwelcome kiss on the neck. That all seems pretty innocent,
No, it does not seem "pretty innocent." Especially "an unwelcome kiss." Dismissing those things is how serial abusers continue to get away with doing them, and then escalating.
Also, there was the pulling of someone's head towards his crotch.
posted by Happy Monkey at 9:44 AM on March 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
No, it does not seem "pretty innocent." Especially "an unwelcome kiss." Dismissing those things is how serial abusers continue to get away with doing them, and then escalating.
Also, there was the pulling of someone's head towards his crotch.
posted by Happy Monkey at 9:44 AM on March 12, 2022 [3 favorites]
No, it does not seem "pretty innocent." Especially "an unwelcome kiss." Dismissing those things is how serial abusers continue to get away with doing them, and then escalating.
He's a serial rapist.
No, seriously. Men who break these small boundaries also break large ones. I mean, why wouldn't they? They've get away with both equally.
No, I don't have proof. What does it matter? Even if I did people would still leave internet comments giving him the benefit of the doubt. A prison sentence is still entirely out of the question even if he publicly confessed. Look at Louis CK.
Bill Cosby had over 50 women come forward with accusations. But one must wonder what the real number he victimized must be.
I'll give you a hint: it's more than a hundred but less than two thousand.
posted by AlSweigart at 2:42 PM on March 12, 2022 [5 favorites]
He's a serial rapist.
No, seriously. Men who break these small boundaries also break large ones. I mean, why wouldn't they? They've get away with both equally.
No, I don't have proof. What does it matter? Even if I did people would still leave internet comments giving him the benefit of the doubt. A prison sentence is still entirely out of the question even if he publicly confessed. Look at Louis CK.
Bill Cosby had over 50 women come forward with accusations. But one must wonder what the real number he victimized must be.
I'll give you a hint: it's more than a hundred but less than two thousand.
posted by AlSweigart at 2:42 PM on March 12, 2022 [5 favorites]
Disappointed, but not surprised, that my tumblr dashboard has been utterly silent about this. On any given day I scroll it, my tumblr dashboard has at least one if not many more posts about Leverage, and there's a lot of love for Chris Kane, especially as part of a poly ship. I won't be surprised either if people refuse to believe it. (Which is not to say I haven't been a fan of his; I've seen his band perform and liked his characters on shows, but I was not the fan a lot of people I know are, and it's been a long time since I paid much attention to him.)
posted by kitten kaboodle at 9:43 PM on March 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by kitten kaboodle at 9:43 PM on March 12, 2022 [1 favorite]
Keanu Reeves has been so successful is that he is also a very nice person to work with
For a hot minute a few years ago the Internet noticed that Keanu "hover hands" in pics with fans and other actors & crew (especially women) - he has his arm "around" their waist area so everyone can get close but he is very clearly not touching them.
I dunno that Reeves has ever commented on this, but most people took this to mean that he understands and respects personal space and appropriate boundaries.
posted by soundguy99 at 8:17 AM on March 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
For a hot minute a few years ago the Internet noticed that Keanu "hover hands" in pics with fans and other actors & crew (especially women) - he has his arm "around" their waist area so everyone can get close but he is very clearly not touching them.
I dunno that Reeves has ever commented on this, but most people took this to mean that he understands and respects personal space and appropriate boundaries.
posted by soundguy99 at 8:17 AM on March 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
Especially since they dropped Hutton like a rock
they dropped someone after their legal / HR team cleared Hutton knowing that there was a rape charge and then only after it became a public issue *after* continuous shitty behavior on the set
the vast majority of places in modern America employ and promote horrible, abusive, predatory assholes quietly and knowingly so long as they make them $$. it's only when their bottom line is hurt or something so egregious happens that they are legally bound to act (eg straight up assault) that they then act while simultaneously having their PR/Marketing team spin the act as a progressive one, a forward thinking action of allies
it's 2022, sixteen fucking years after #metoo exposed decades/centuries/millenia of systemic, institutionalized abuse happening just about everywhere, and we're still here hearing about orgs employing these obvious shit heads for months to years even as their behavior is observed and known and become whisper networks in these toxic work environments. assuming bad faith as a default is exhausting but it will never not be reflective of the reality we still live in
posted by paimapi at 8:50 AM on March 13, 2022 [5 favorites]
they dropped someone after their legal / HR team cleared Hutton knowing that there was a rape charge and then only after it became a public issue *after* continuous shitty behavior on the set
the vast majority of places in modern America employ and promote horrible, abusive, predatory assholes quietly and knowingly so long as they make them $$. it's only when their bottom line is hurt or something so egregious happens that they are legally bound to act (eg straight up assault) that they then act while simultaneously having their PR/Marketing team spin the act as a progressive one, a forward thinking action of allies
it's 2022, sixteen fucking years after #metoo exposed decades/centuries/millenia of systemic, institutionalized abuse happening just about everywhere, and we're still here hearing about orgs employing these obvious shit heads for months to years even as their behavior is observed and known and become whisper networks in these toxic work environments. assuming bad faith as a default is exhausting but it will never not be reflective of the reality we still live in
posted by paimapi at 8:50 AM on March 13, 2022 [5 favorites]
the vast majority of places in modern America employ and promote horrible, abusive, predatory assholes quietly and knowingly so long as they make them $$
Assholes like other assholes. You know the problem of implicit bias? You like the people you like and you don't always know why. Many times it's just because they remind you of you. We love to look in a mirror and see a version of ourselves and we want that version to succeed just like we want ourselves to succeed. If assholes are at the top, they aren't going to hire goody-two-shoes who are going to make them look bad. They're gonna hire little protégés that remind them of themselves and–bonus!–they can make asshole comments around them and get an echoed "har, har, harr" that further affirms their douchbaggery and is no threat to their little tower of dicks.
posted by amanda at 10:07 AM on March 13, 2022 [4 favorites]
Assholes like other assholes. You know the problem of implicit bias? You like the people you like and you don't always know why. Many times it's just because they remind you of you. We love to look in a mirror and see a version of ourselves and we want that version to succeed just like we want ourselves to succeed. If assholes are at the top, they aren't going to hire goody-two-shoes who are going to make them look bad. They're gonna hire little protégés that remind them of themselves and–bonus!–they can make asshole comments around them and get an echoed "har, har, harr" that further affirms their douchbaggery and is no threat to their little tower of dicks.
posted by amanda at 10:07 AM on March 13, 2022 [4 favorites]
I was upset to see this news. I started watching Leverage at the start of the pandemic, and it was such a joy to escape into, a way to affirm that no matter the system, injustice didn't have to prevail. I'm so sad to learn that it was the opposite of those things for some of the people who made the show possible.
posted by mixedmetaphors at 11:52 AM on March 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by mixedmetaphors at 11:52 AM on March 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
I suppose I'm not surprised, but there is almost no conversation happening on twitter about this. This really sucks, and I keep thinking about it, like poking a sore tooth.
posted by PussKillian at 2:23 PM on March 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by PussKillian at 2:23 PM on March 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
Yeah, it's pretty weird that this is the ONLY article I've seen about it (not that I check Twitter) and the news hasn't gotten around at all (hence why I posted it, I guess).
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:23 PM on March 15, 2022
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:23 PM on March 15, 2022
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posted by Kitteh at 1:30 PM on March 11, 2022 [29 favorites]