Justin McElroy (not that Justin McElroy) visits Kitsault
July 27, 2022 1:11 AM Subscribe
It sounds made up.
In the wilderness of British Columbia, a two hour drive from any town with cell reception, sits a ghost town.
Not only a ghost town, but a ghost town that was built for $50 million in 1981, only to be shut down a year later.
...
Like I said, it sounds made up.
But Kitsault is real. You can visit.
So I did.
The twitter thread version.
In the wilderness of British Columbia, a two hour drive from any town with cell reception, sits a ghost town.
Not only a ghost town, but a ghost town that was built for $50 million in 1981, only to be shut down a year later.
...
Like I said, it sounds made up.
But Kitsault is real. You can visit.
So I did.
The twitter thread version.
This is fascinating, thanks for sharing it. I have a bunch of good memories of visiting mining ghost towns in the desert in California as a kid, and the fact that this place has been maintained for decades makes it even more interesting.
One commenter on the original article mentioned that the town is on Nisga’a land, and that their claims to the land have been consistently ignored, which seems pretty bad given that it's been essentially unused. I'd love to read more about that aspect of this.
posted by wesleyac at 1:49 AM on July 27, 2022 [6 favorites]
One commenter on the original article mentioned that the town is on Nisga’a land, and that their claims to the land have been consistently ignored, which seems pretty bad given that it's been essentially unused. I'd love to read more about that aspect of this.
posted by wesleyac at 1:49 AM on July 27, 2022 [6 favorites]
Searching around a little bit, it looks like Kitsault itself is not in the boundaries of the Nisga’a land as defined by the Nisga’a Treaty (which was signed in 1998), but when there was talk of reopening the mine in 2013, the Nisga’a attempted to prevent the reopening, due to environmental concerns. It seems that the mine did not reopen, although I'm not sure how much that's due to the Nisga’a advocacy vs other concerns.
I didn't find anything about Kitsault the town, just the related mine, but I'd be interested in perspectives on it (particularly on what the perspective was prior to the 1998 treaty)
posted by wesleyac at 2:02 AM on July 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
I didn't find anything about Kitsault the town, just the related mine, but I'd be interested in perspectives on it (particularly on what the perspective was prior to the 1998 treaty)
posted by wesleyac at 2:02 AM on July 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
Glad to see my favourite ranker of all the things on MetaFilter again. Every Vancouver park, BC municipal flag, BC city welcome signs, Vancouver hamburgers, breweries in southeastern BC, each of which had a scoring rubric and multiple people doing ranking. It's the best kind of intense dedication to minutia.
Additional good photos and content on his Twitter today on the ghost town.
Justin McElroy previously on MetaFilter:
"This is the Disney Songbook Table of Elements"
The 10 Best Canadian Heritage Minutes of All Time
More importantly, Justin McElroy started early in the pandemic meticulously turning the provinces daily covid case numbers from spotty PDF documents into charts and a database consisting of all of the public health info ever released and thereby creating the most accessible means of understanding the case numbers throughout the pandemic. Excellent dude all around.
The Justins McElroy occasionally have some fun Twitter mix-ups.
posted by lookoutbelow at 2:06 AM on July 27, 2022 [10 favorites]
Additional good photos and content on his Twitter today on the ghost town.
Justin McElroy previously on MetaFilter:
"This is the Disney Songbook Table of Elements"
The 10 Best Canadian Heritage Minutes of All Time
More importantly, Justin McElroy started early in the pandemic meticulously turning the provinces daily covid case numbers from spotty PDF documents into charts and a database consisting of all of the public health info ever released and thereby creating the most accessible means of understanding the case numbers throughout the pandemic. Excellent dude all around.
The Justins McElroy occasionally have some fun Twitter mix-ups.
posted by lookoutbelow at 2:06 AM on July 27, 2022 [10 favorites]
Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, but for a prefab mining town it seems pretty nice!
posted by Alex404 at 2:22 AM on July 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Alex404 at 2:22 AM on July 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
If they reboot The Prisoner again, they have the perfect setting for it.
posted by acb at 2:29 AM on July 27, 2022
posted by acb at 2:29 AM on July 27, 2022
Town looks nice, and it also looks like a scene from Last of Us 2. Except all the working lightbulbs.
posted by glaucon at 3:30 AM on July 27, 2022
posted by glaucon at 3:30 AM on July 27, 2022
I’m wondering who is the “American millionaire” keeping the place maintained (the term seems almost quaint, if he’s funneling six figures a year into it it’s got to be a lot more than a millionaire) and what is his plan to recoup
posted by ook at 4:01 AM on July 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by ook at 4:01 AM on July 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
who is the "American millionaire" keeping the place maintained
Per this 2005 Washington Post story, it's Krishnan Suthanthiran, born in 1949, who lives in Virginia and made his money selling medical devices and D.C.-area real estate.
posted by virago at 4:32 AM on July 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
Per this 2005 Washington Post story, it's Krishnan Suthanthiran, born in 1949, who lives in Virginia and made his money selling medical devices and D.C.-area real estate.
posted by virago at 4:32 AM on July 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
The mall has a low ceiling and brown floor tiles.
That describes a LOT of old Canadian malls. The one that comes to mind first is The Galleria in Toronto.
posted by brachiopod at 4:33 AM on July 27, 2022 [10 favorites]
That describes a LOT of old Canadian malls. The one that comes to mind first is The Galleria in Toronto.
posted by brachiopod at 4:33 AM on July 27, 2022 [10 favorites]
The northern Michigander in me wants to pronounce the town's same as kit-soo. Would that be the correct way to say it? I base that on the pronunciation of Sault Ste Marie.
posted by NoMich at 4:36 AM on July 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by NoMich at 4:36 AM on July 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
as a friend put it, “a B.C. Chernobyl but someone is changing all the light bulbs.”
Whatever the Canadians had unleashed at the bottom of that mine, they took care of it.
Despite some initial moments of panic, the safety mechanisms engaged as designed and allowed the next series of necessary events--the evacuation of the town, the dismantling of the experimental apparatus, the containment of the anomaly, and the sealing of the mine--to follow in a somewhat leisurely manner. There was time to plant the cover story about molybdenum prices and to gradually shut down the newly opened mall and the banks. There was time to slowly start relocating people so as not to arouse suspicion from other governments who were still puzzling over the initial burst of positrons and the probably-just-background seismic waves the incident had caused.
Everyone involved knew the risks involved and importance of being orderly. Some residents felt uneasy about being asked to continue their daily lives even while knowing what was going on 3mi beneath their feet, but they had confidence in the system their neighbors had largely designed and the authorities worked hard to accommodate this unease when prioritizing evacuations. If word ever got out about what had been attempted at the bottom of the mine, someone else might try to do it with less of an emphasis on safety.
In the end, containment was successful. So successful that the town's buildings were even left standing and maintained to further the molybdenum story. Maybe the town will reopen again, or maybe some rich American will turn it into a wellness retreat. With the anomaly gone and the mine sealed, there's no danger.
Another triumph for playing it safe--no one will ever know how much dangerous shit you actually get into.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:21 AM on July 27, 2022 [43 favorites]
Whatever the Canadians had unleashed at the bottom of that mine, they took care of it.
Despite some initial moments of panic, the safety mechanisms engaged as designed and allowed the next series of necessary events--the evacuation of the town, the dismantling of the experimental apparatus, the containment of the anomaly, and the sealing of the mine--to follow in a somewhat leisurely manner. There was time to plant the cover story about molybdenum prices and to gradually shut down the newly opened mall and the banks. There was time to slowly start relocating people so as not to arouse suspicion from other governments who were still puzzling over the initial burst of positrons and the probably-just-background seismic waves the incident had caused.
Everyone involved knew the risks involved and importance of being orderly. Some residents felt uneasy about being asked to continue their daily lives even while knowing what was going on 3mi beneath their feet, but they had confidence in the system their neighbors had largely designed and the authorities worked hard to accommodate this unease when prioritizing evacuations. If word ever got out about what had been attempted at the bottom of the mine, someone else might try to do it with less of an emphasis on safety.
In the end, containment was successful. So successful that the town's buildings were even left standing and maintained to further the molybdenum story. Maybe the town will reopen again, or maybe some rich American will turn it into a wellness retreat. With the anomaly gone and the mine sealed, there's no danger.
Another triumph for playing it safe--no one will ever know how much dangerous shit you actually get into.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:21 AM on July 27, 2022 [43 favorites]
On the question of whether Kitsault is on Nisaga’a land, nearly all of BC is unceded First Nations land. There’s an important distinction between traditional lands and reserves, somewhat related to the distinction between hereditary versus Indian Act governance structures. However, the legal framework is slightly different for the Nisga’a,
(Note that there are still some land disputes in this case, for example with land claimed by other First Nations but sold by the BC government to the Nisga’a, or an unsuccessful challenge from within (sort-of).)
posted by eviemath at 5:31 AM on July 27, 2022 [5 favorites]
The Nisga'a people first petitioned government to settle their "Land Question" in 1887. In 1998, the governments of Canada, British Columbia, and the Nisga'a Nation signed the Nisga'a Final Agreement, the first treaty in British Columbia in more than a century. The treaty recognizes Nisga'a Lands and contains self-government provisions. On May 11, 2000, the treaty went into effect, marking the end of a 113-year quest—and the beginning of an exciting new era of hope, prosperity, and goodwill.The treaty includes different categories of land, the majority of which looks to be Category A and B land on their map.
…
After ratification of the Nisga'a Treaty by the Nisga'a Nation, British Columbia, and Canada, the Indian Act ceased to apply to the Nisga'a people (except for the purpose of Indian registration). On May 11, 2000, the Effective Date of the Nisga'a Treaty was a historic and triumphant day for the Nisga'a people. It marked the end of a 113-year journey—and the first steps in a new direction.
The Nisga'a Nation also owns 25 square kilometres of Category "A" Lands consisting of 18 parcels, and 2.5 square kilometres of Category "B" Lands consisting of 15 parcels. These lands are located throughout the Nass Area. The Nisga'a Nation owns all mineral resources on or under Category "A" Lands, while British Columbia owns all mineral resources on or under Category "B" Lands. Other parcels of provincial crown land were purchased by the Nisga’a Nation and various village corporations before the Nisga’a Final Agreement was signed.Kitsault lies in this larger section of land.
(Note that there are still some land disputes in this case, for example with land claimed by other First Nations but sold by the BC government to the Nisga’a, or an unsuccessful challenge from within (sort-of).)
posted by eviemath at 5:31 AM on July 27, 2022 [5 favorites]
That town is just begging to be used as set for some kind reality show, where GenXers return to the 80s, but as their parents.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:38 AM on July 27, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 5:38 AM on July 27, 2022 [9 favorites]
Are we sure they didn't film Papergirls there?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:42 AM on July 27, 2022
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:42 AM on July 27, 2022
The northern Michigander in me wants to pronounce the town's same as kit-soo. Would that be the correct way to say it? I base that on the pronunciation of Sault Ste Marie.
posted by NoMich at 4:36 AM on July 27
No, it's pronounced Kit-Salt. Sault Ste Marie is French; this is not.
posted by The Notorious SRD at 5:57 AM on July 27, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by NoMich at 4:36 AM on July 27
No, it's pronounced Kit-Salt. Sault Ste Marie is French; this is not.
posted by The Notorious SRD at 5:57 AM on July 27, 2022 [7 favorites]
It seems like a waste not to use the place for something, but maybe the owner is keeping the town as their own bug out compound in case SHTF. Of course if they were doing that then they probably should be doing some prep work beyond just maintaining everything.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 6:05 AM on July 27, 2022
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 6:05 AM on July 27, 2022
I have to admit that I am jaded enough to translate the purchase of a perfectly preserved ghost town in far B.C. by an American millionaire as "when it all goes to shit, fuck you Jack, I got mine." People who have more money than sense do that to me. I get uncharitable.
(That being said, I would totally tour it.)
posted by Kitteh at 6:21 AM on July 27, 2022
(That being said, I would totally tour it.)
posted by Kitteh at 6:21 AM on July 27, 2022
This is like Ocean Falls yt . Crown Zellerbach built the town, shut it down in 1973. There was an ad in NY papers -- "Town for Sale" --that was not appreciated by residents.
There are a few differences between Ocean Falls and Kitsault. For one, Ocean Falls -- which is where my mom and her siblings grew up -- was a thriving town with thousands of people in it for a fairly long time. There was even a section of it out in the valley where CZ didn't own the houses, and that's where my grandparents had their home and raised my mom and aunts and uncles. When it was populated, it had an absolutely famous swimming team -- Dick Pound, from the IOC and WADA -- got his start in swimming in Ocean Falls and so did a whole lot of other Olympians and near-Olympians that didn't end up as big deal Olympic executives.
And now, Ocean Falls isn't actually a ghost town. Its small, and most of what's there is fishing lodges and crypto farms, but there are still a handful of full time residents. You can still get there on the ferry a couple of times a week and my remaining uncle is there as we speak, laying to rest the ashes of my other uncle. I don't know how things in the town got transferred from CZ to the people who own them now, but it wasn't a wholesale sale of the town, I don't think -- the piecemeal use of the town now suggests individual buildings were sold.
For me, finding my way to Ocean Falls has always been my personal bug-out plan for the zombie apocalypse. It's very remote so it should take awhile for zombies to get there, and the power plant operates and is maintainable by the relatively small number of people who already live there. Plus, assuming it is structurally sound, the hotel seems like a defensible fallback position in case zombies do arrive. Sure, I'd have to learn to like fish a lot more than I do, but I could manage that.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:23 AM on July 27, 2022 [4 favorites]
There are a few differences between Ocean Falls and Kitsault. For one, Ocean Falls -- which is where my mom and her siblings grew up -- was a thriving town with thousands of people in it for a fairly long time. There was even a section of it out in the valley where CZ didn't own the houses, and that's where my grandparents had their home and raised my mom and aunts and uncles. When it was populated, it had an absolutely famous swimming team -- Dick Pound, from the IOC and WADA -- got his start in swimming in Ocean Falls and so did a whole lot of other Olympians and near-Olympians that didn't end up as big deal Olympic executives.
And now, Ocean Falls isn't actually a ghost town. Its small, and most of what's there is fishing lodges and crypto farms, but there are still a handful of full time residents. You can still get there on the ferry a couple of times a week and my remaining uncle is there as we speak, laying to rest the ashes of my other uncle. I don't know how things in the town got transferred from CZ to the people who own them now, but it wasn't a wholesale sale of the town, I don't think -- the piecemeal use of the town now suggests individual buildings were sold.
For me, finding my way to Ocean Falls has always been my personal bug-out plan for the zombie apocalypse. It's very remote so it should take awhile for zombies to get there, and the power plant operates and is maintainable by the relatively small number of people who already live there. Plus, assuming it is structurally sound, the hotel seems like a defensible fallback position in case zombies do arrive. Sure, I'd have to learn to like fish a lot more than I do, but I could manage that.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:23 AM on July 27, 2022 [4 favorites]
a caretaker was left in charge of basic maintenance of the property
Ah, yes, and we all know how well that turns out.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 6:27 AM on July 27, 2022 [7 favorites]
Ah, yes, and we all know how well that turns out.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 6:27 AM on July 27, 2022 [7 favorites]
Well, he was working on a novel.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:41 AM on July 27, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:41 AM on July 27, 2022 [6 favorites]
too much work, not enough play
posted by philip-random at 6:49 AM on July 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by philip-random at 6:49 AM on July 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
A few years ago, Internet comedy nerds LoadingReadyRun made a series called Road Quest, which is in the spirit of the Big Adventures the trio used to have in Top Gear/GT. Buy a cheap car, mod it a bit, producers mess with you along the way.
I thought the trip took them to Kitsault, but it was Dawson, YT. Womp, womp. Still worth watching, though!
posted by xedrik at 7:42 AM on July 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
I thought the trip took them to Kitsault, but it was Dawson, YT. Womp, womp. Still worth watching, though!
posted by xedrik at 7:42 AM on July 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
I've learned more about Canadian workers "heading west" from the music of Stan Roger's than anything else. It's opened up an entire universe of fascinating 20th century industrial migration history (for this ignorant, albeit midwestern, yank).
Brings to mind these two songs by Stan the Great:
"The Idiot"
"Free in the Harbour"
posted by Baby_Balrog at 8:28 AM on July 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
Brings to mind these two songs by Stan the Great:
"The Idiot"
"Free in the Harbour"
posted by Baby_Balrog at 8:28 AM on July 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
The Nisga'a Nation also owns 25 square kilometres of Category "A" Lands consisting of 18 parcels, and 2.5 square kilometres of Category "B" Lands consisting of 15 parcels. These lands are located throughout the Nass Area. The Nisga'a Nation owns all mineral resources on or under Category "A" Lands, while British Columbia owns all mineral resources on or under Category "B" Lands.
Putting aside how scammy the part about mineral resources is, it sounds like the properties and land fall squarely within the Nisga'a's remit.
They should probably have a say in how the town is or isn't used, but I have a modest proposal for them and the private owner (wild self-commissioned bio here).
There's no reason that historical reenactment sites need to replicate stuff that happened hundreds of years ago. Imagine the joy of bringing your incredibly bored and confused kids to a town that looks just like the era you grew up in! They can learn all about cassette tapes, and backteasing hair, and landline phones, and blowing on Nintendo cartridges, and what it's like when everything is inexplicably either brown or rust colored. It would be a vacation and an education all in one!
posted by evidenceofabsence at 8:35 AM on July 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
Putting aside how scammy the part about mineral resources is, it sounds like the properties and land fall squarely within the Nisga'a's remit.
They should probably have a say in how the town is or isn't used, but I have a modest proposal for them and the private owner (wild self-commissioned bio here).
There's no reason that historical reenactment sites need to replicate stuff that happened hundreds of years ago. Imagine the joy of bringing your incredibly bored and confused kids to a town that looks just like the era you grew up in! They can learn all about cassette tapes, and backteasing hair, and landline phones, and blowing on Nintendo cartridges, and what it's like when everything is inexplicably either brown or rust colored. It would be a vacation and an education all in one!
posted by evidenceofabsence at 8:35 AM on July 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
That town is just begging to be used as set for some kind reality show, where GenXers return to the 80s, but as their parents.
Or for this idea I've had for many moons: a reality show kinda sorta based on "The Amazing Race" but featuring teenagers (or college kids) who must navigate across the country but only using early 80s technology.
So no smartphones, just maps and rotary phones. (The whole idea was prompted by this very amusing video.)
Challenges would include:
posted by jeremias at 11:15 AM on July 27, 2022 [3 favorites]
Or for this idea I've had for many moons: a reality show kinda sorta based on "The Amazing Race" but featuring teenagers (or college kids) who must navigate across the country but only using early 80s technology.
So no smartphones, just maps and rotary phones. (The whole idea was prompted by this very amusing video.)
Challenges would include:
- Having to program a VCR to record a show at 2am
- Having to transfer data off a computer using a disk drive/floppy disc and move it to the other computer that can actualy print.
- Using the phone book.
- etc.
posted by jeremias at 11:15 AM on July 27, 2022 [3 favorites]
The northern Michigander in me wants to pronounce the town's same as kit-soo. Would that be the correct way to say it? I base that on the pronunciation of Sault Ste Marie.No, and pronouncing it that way would tend to lead to confusion with the Kitasoo people who live around Klemtu, BC, a ways further down the coast.
posted by Nerd of the North at 12:02 PM on July 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
Y'know, if millionaires and billionaires were spending their fortunes on preserving Canadian ghost towns from the 1980s or racing around the world in hot air balloons (remember that?) instead of, I dunno, breathing life into global fascism or whatever, I bet people would like them a lot more. Tbh, maintaining this ghost town seems like a pretty neat little hobby, like doing model railroads but at 1:1 scale. Also, I find the insistence on keeping things exactly as they were incredibly charming though if it were me, I'd be very, very tempted to do something like try to build a period-correct 1980s McDonald's or Burger King in there.
posted by mhum at 12:07 PM on July 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by mhum at 12:07 PM on July 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
You don’t have to wait to be a billionaire mhum. This guy built a period correct 1980s 1:1 scale Via Rail car in his basement. There's an FPP but the main link is dead.
posted by brachiopod at 1:04 PM on July 27, 2022
posted by brachiopod at 1:04 PM on July 27, 2022
Per this 2005 Washington Post story, it's Krishnan Suthanthiran, born in 1949, who lives in Virginia and made his money selling medical devices and D.C.-area real estate.
Thank you, virago, for doing the research I was too lazy to! He sounds.... unexpectedly charming, to be honest! Or else I'm just a sucker for the "publicity-shy, frugal, philanthropically inclined impossibly-wealthy-person" type. Or else he and Chuck Feeney share a very talented publicist
posted by ook at 1:34 PM on July 27, 2022
Thank you, virago, for doing the research I was too lazy to! He sounds.... unexpectedly charming, to be honest! Or else I'm just a sucker for the "publicity-shy, frugal, philanthropically inclined impossibly-wealthy-person" type. Or else he and Chuck Feeney share a very talented publicist
posted by ook at 1:34 PM on July 27, 2022
Given the limited number of visitors annually, I wonder if this guy's name played a role in his being selected. That would be hilarious.
posted by BiggerJ at 8:31 PM on July 27, 2022
posted by BiggerJ at 8:31 PM on July 27, 2022
So the mall has Kingsgate Mall vibes (in the Twitter thread)? Yep, looks accurate! I have been tempted to create a Twitter account just so I could follow him and all his ranking brackets. Especially during the height of COVID case reporting, he made sense of all the data for me and a lot of other folks.
posted by tinydancer at 8:35 PM on July 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by tinydancer at 8:35 PM on July 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
Given the limited number of visitors annually, I wonder if this guy's name played a role in his being selected. That would be hilarious.
You would probably be correct in this assumption, but not because he has the same name as the American Justin McElroy. But rather, because he himself is a famous (for BC, within BC) journalist with the CBC and does a loooooot of reporting on obscure and quaint things in the province. And we love him for it.
posted by tinydancer at 8:40 PM on July 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
You would probably be correct in this assumption, but not because he has the same name as the American Justin McElroy. But rather, because he himself is a famous (for BC, within BC) journalist with the CBC and does a loooooot of reporting on obscure and quaint things in the province. And we love him for it.
posted by tinydancer at 8:40 PM on July 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
Growing up in small, industrial, Alberta as a child, let me tell you that aesthetic is both very familar and v nostalgia. I miss it.
posted by PinkMoose at 9:05 PM on July 27, 2022
posted by PinkMoose at 9:05 PM on July 27, 2022
This is fascinating, thanks. Surprised it's so little known and too bad it's not being used.
posted by blue shadows at 11:21 PM on July 27, 2022
posted by blue shadows at 11:21 PM on July 27, 2022
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