And yet... bots
August 13, 2022 8:04 AM Subscribe
Twitter has been on a recruitment drive of late, hiring a host of former feds and spies.
Many former FBI officials hold influential roles within Twitter. For instance, in 2020, Matthew W. left a 15-year career as an intelligence program manager at the FBI to take up the post of senior director of product trust at Twitter.
..former FBI agent and whistleblower Coleen Rowley said that she was “not surprised at all” to see FBI agents now working for the very tech companies the agency polices, stating that there now exists a “revolving door” between the FBI and the areas they are trying to regulate.
Rowley also suggested that hiring people from various three-letter agencies gave them a credibility boost. “These [tech] companies are using the mythical aura of the FBI. They can point to somebody and say ‘oh, you can trust us; our CEO or CFO is FBI,’” she explained.
Some might ask “What is the problem with Twitter actively recruiting from the FBI, CIA and other three-letter agencies?” They, after all, are experts in studying online disinformation and propaganda.
Social media holds enormous influence in today’s society. While this article is not alleging that anyone mentioned is a bad actor or does not genuinely care about the spread of disinformation, it is highlighting a glaring conflict of interest.
..former FBI agent and whistleblower Coleen Rowley said that she was “not surprised at all” to see FBI agents now working for the very tech companies the agency polices, stating that there now exists a “revolving door” between the FBI and the areas they are trying to regulate.
Rowley also suggested that hiring people from various three-letter agencies gave them a credibility boost. “These [tech] companies are using the mythical aura of the FBI. They can point to somebody and say ‘oh, you can trust us; our CEO or CFO is FBI,’” she explained.
Some might ask “What is the problem with Twitter actively recruiting from the FBI, CIA and other three-letter agencies?” They, after all, are experts in studying online disinformation and propaganda.
Social media holds enormous influence in today’s society. While this article is not alleging that anyone mentioned is a bad actor or does not genuinely care about the spread of disinformation, it is highlighting a glaring conflict of interest.
huh...
Taiwan must address TikTok threat[1,2]
Taiwan must address TikTok threat[1,2]
- @Nowooski: "Always hard to tell if it's the normal algorithm or if we're getting a preview of what propaganda is like when China owns a social media network, but my TikTok feed today is ~50% videos about Pelosi visiting Taiwan. None are pro-visit."
- @interfluidity: "and who should we trust to shape our tools?"[3]
FBI and Twitter, experts at ignoring Nazis combined.
posted by Artw at 8:55 AM on August 13, 2022 [12 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:55 AM on August 13, 2022 [12 favorites]
This confuses me - in what way does the FBI regulate Twitter? That's what the article says. I can see why a social network interested in tracking down bad actors on their site might recruit people who have been involved in monitoring (in lots of horrific ways) citizens, but I don't see the connection otherwise.
posted by bluesky43 at 9:02 AM on August 13, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by bluesky43 at 9:02 AM on August 13, 2022 [6 favorites]
Given the history of Saudi agents working at Twitter, it honestly seems better that you can just see this stuff on LinkedIn when it's people with connections to the US government
posted by wesleyac at 9:21 AM on August 13, 2022
posted by wesleyac at 9:21 AM on August 13, 2022
It is suggesting that any government employee is irrevocably tainted and that Twitter will become a tool for government surveillance and misinformation
posted by pingu at 9:26 AM on August 13, 2022
posted by pingu at 9:26 AM on August 13, 2022
I mean I guess the idea that Twitter is a "politically neutral platform" in a global context is what's on trial in this article and I think it's obviously not that, and not trying to claim to be that? When Twitter makes a claim to be "politically neutral" 98% of the time the intent is to say that they don't advantage American Republicans over American Democrats or vice versa. Twitter is absolutely a US company subject to US laws, rules, regulations etc and if the US government says jump, they mostly ask how high, just like basically every other American corporation, basically all the time.
But yeah even leaving that aside I think this article is pretty thin. Mostly just combing LinkedIn for former government employees who moved to Twitter. Like, so what? Are people supposed to just lay down and die when they no longer want to work for the government?
posted by potrzebie at 9:40 AM on August 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
But yeah even leaving that aside I think this article is pretty thin. Mostly just combing LinkedIn for former government employees who moved to Twitter. Like, so what? Are people supposed to just lay down and die when they no longer want to work for the government?
posted by potrzebie at 9:40 AM on August 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
This paragraph sums up the danger:
posted by clawsoon at 9:47 AM on August 13, 2022 [6 favorites]
Thus, when policing the platform for disinformation and influence campaigns, the former FBI and CIA agents and Atlantic Council fellows only ever seem to find them emanating from enemy states and never from the US government itself. This is because their backgrounds and outlooks condition them to consider Washington to be a unique force for good.Looking back, we can see how many CIA disinformation campaigns destroyed promising democratic movements around the world because they weren't aligned with the interests of American power, and how respectable government-adjacent news organizations went along with it. (For example, this previously.) Do we really think that the American machine is thoroughly reformed?
posted by clawsoon at 9:47 AM on August 13, 2022 [6 favorites]
Sure but the very next paragraph:
But these “former” spooks and feds are unlikely to point the finger at their former colleagues or sister organizations or investigate their operations.
I call bs. Or at least think the article presents no evidence of it. Except maybe:
The entire list of countries it has identified as engaging in these campaigns are as follows: Russia (in 7 reports), Iran (in 5 reports), China (4 reports),
I don't think everything is perfect here but I sure as hell am glad I live in the US and not in china. Full disclosure, I used to live in china.
posted by pingu at 10:01 AM on August 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
But these “former” spooks and feds are unlikely to point the finger at their former colleagues or sister organizations or investigate their operations.
I call bs. Or at least think the article presents no evidence of it. Except maybe:
The entire list of countries it has identified as engaging in these campaigns are as follows: Russia (in 7 reports), Iran (in 5 reports), China (4 reports),
I don't think everything is perfect here but I sure as hell am glad I live in the US and not in china. Full disclosure, I used to live in china.
posted by pingu at 10:01 AM on August 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
Furthermore, if it really is an issue ... what would the solution be? Ban all former government employees from the private sector?
Just seems like "fearmongering" to me and we have enough of that already
posted by pingu at 10:10 AM on August 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
Just seems like "fearmongering" to me and we have enough of that already
posted by pingu at 10:10 AM on August 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
pingu: "... what would the solution be? Ban all former government employees from the private sector?"
Yes, they should have a ten year ban from working for the companies they were previously in charge of overseeing.
What's controversial about this?
posted by signal at 10:40 AM on August 13, 2022 [14 favorites]
Yes, they should have a ten year ban from working for the companies they were previously in charge of overseeing.
What's controversial about this?
posted by signal at 10:40 AM on August 13, 2022 [14 favorites]
Is the FBI in charge of overseeing specifically Twitter, or at least more so than any other us corporation?
posted by pingu at 10:42 AM on August 13, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by pingu at 10:42 AM on August 13, 2022 [5 favorites]
If I see what seems to be a social media op in progress, it's usually on Twitter, so I can't say I'm surprised. Spooky s**t goes down on the regular. I guess I can expect more of the same.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 11:10 AM on August 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Sheydem-tants at 11:10 AM on August 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
Yeah, it’s kind of a conundrum. On one hand, if Twitter is genuinely concerned about identifying/rooting-out bad actors, it’s hard to do much better than .gov experts. On the other hand, they’re .gov experts. Still, who would you turn to? I’m hard-pressed to come up with any options that aren’t even more suspect/scary.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:27 AM on August 13, 2022
posted by Thorzdad at 11:27 AM on August 13, 2022
Imo the systemic option is partly to pay gov't employees competitively with private sector. Make regulating/managing the industries from within government as lucrative as working private and you'll get less problematic cross-pollination.
posted by wemayfreeze at 11:32 AM on August 13, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by wemayfreeze at 11:32 AM on August 13, 2022 [4 favorites]
Also it's not even unusual to find laws/regs in other sectors that puts a timebound freeze on govt employees jumping into a private entity in the jurisdiction they used to work as oversight.
posted by cendawanita at 11:56 AM on August 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 11:56 AM on August 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
Revolving doors usually make me worried that a government regulator has been captured by industry. In this case, the revolving door makes me worried that industry has been captured by government.
posted by clawsoon at 12:23 PM on August 13, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 12:23 PM on August 13, 2022 [5 favorites]
Much as I abhor the surveillance state, which is real, I don’t understand the claim that the FBI has any authority over Twitter. They can issue a subpoena, or view public postings and use them in an investigation, but … what am I missing? A revolving door between the NSA and tech companies is more concerning, and that’s certainly a thing. I do see the value to Twitter of having an in with the feds, but not the reverse.
posted by zenzenobia at 1:22 PM on August 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by zenzenobia at 1:22 PM on August 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
I don’t care who they hire if it will help them break Musk.
posted by aramaic at 1:27 PM on August 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by aramaic at 1:27 PM on August 13, 2022 [2 favorites]
The article seems pretty thin when the opposite - company executives that come to government to ostensibly boost their previous employers, then return to the company after their stint in "public service" is complete - happens on a regular basis, as well as the whole military-industrial complex where all the defense companies have a few ex-generals on their "governance boards".
There was also that guy elected into the country's highest office who hired all his incompetent family members, funneled government money to their businesses, and sold pardons.
posted by meowzilla at 2:15 PM on August 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
There was also that guy elected into the country's highest office who hired all his incompetent family members, funneled government money to their businesses, and sold pardons.
posted by meowzilla at 2:15 PM on August 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
I work at a tech company (not Twitter) that has also seen an influx of former employees of federal law enforcement and other 3 letter agencies. To clarify, no, the FBI does not hold any special "regulation" authority over Twitter. It's not a regulatory agency.
But more importantly, there's a few problems with hiring from these agencies:
While it does add a certain cachet to say your security team is made up of former federal law enforcement and intelligence professionals, many of these people are so accustomed to decades of government work that they simply have no idea or capacity of how to operate in a tech company, which often has their own set of cultural norms and ways of operating that can be difficult to get used to and be effective in, regardless of your background.
My other concern has been that generally these people are sympathetic to law enforcement/government, and want to engage with their old buddies at these agencies in behind-the-scenes ways that could be considered problematic, at least to folks who are concerned about government intrusion in areas like free speech.
I've also observed that these people simply have NO IDEA what to do about the difficult problems that arise every day in areas like content moderation and banning problematic users. They simply don't have the relevant experience or perspective. They approach every problem like law enforcement, which (at best) can be a narrow-minded way to approach things.
posted by averageamateur at 2:28 PM on August 13, 2022 [12 favorites]
But more importantly, there's a few problems with hiring from these agencies:
While it does add a certain cachet to say your security team is made up of former federal law enforcement and intelligence professionals, many of these people are so accustomed to decades of government work that they simply have no idea or capacity of how to operate in a tech company, which often has their own set of cultural norms and ways of operating that can be difficult to get used to and be effective in, regardless of your background.
My other concern has been that generally these people are sympathetic to law enforcement/government, and want to engage with their old buddies at these agencies in behind-the-scenes ways that could be considered problematic, at least to folks who are concerned about government intrusion in areas like free speech.
I've also observed that these people simply have NO IDEA what to do about the difficult problems that arise every day in areas like content moderation and banning problematic users. They simply don't have the relevant experience or perspective. They approach every problem like law enforcement, which (at best) can be a narrow-minded way to approach things.
posted by averageamateur at 2:28 PM on August 13, 2022 [12 favorites]
I would like to see a better sourced article than this. In my view, a lot of it reads like a bunch of alarmist speculation.
posted by bluesky43 at 2:30 PM on August 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by bluesky43 at 2:30 PM on August 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
I would have claimed that this article only exists because both Twitter and the FBI are in the news recently, but the article is from July.
posted by meowzilla at 2:33 PM on August 13, 2022
posted by meowzilla at 2:33 PM on August 13, 2022
Elon Musk said he was a Secret Service 'special agent' when he donated to the Republican Party, an FEC filing shows.
is it Halloween?
posted by clavdivs at 2:45 PM on August 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
is it Halloween?
posted by clavdivs at 2:45 PM on August 13, 2022 [1 favorite]
Imo the systemic option is partly to pay gov't employees competitively with private sector
Current gov employee here in the cyber realm (not for the FBI, relax) and wish I could favorite this 10x. Pay is a massive issue in any part of the government tech/IT or cyber-related, even with attempts to improve this with SIP and higher payscales the pay almost never matches what you'd get in the private sector. Not to mention far less red tape for anything hiring or HR-related and bonuses/options that can't be matched in government. The only reason I haven't left myself is unrelated family reasons (but seriously considering jumping ship in another few years).
posted by photo guy at 3:00 PM on August 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
Current gov employee here in the cyber realm (not for the FBI, relax) and wish I could favorite this 10x. Pay is a massive issue in any part of the government tech/IT or cyber-related, even with attempts to improve this with SIP and higher payscales the pay almost never matches what you'd get in the private sector. Not to mention far less red tape for anything hiring or HR-related and bonuses/options that can't be matched in government. The only reason I haven't left myself is unrelated family reasons (but seriously considering jumping ship in another few years).
posted by photo guy at 3:00 PM on August 13, 2022 [3 favorites]
> normal users lose access to their accounts for suggesting that we place tiiiiiny little diapers onto human face mites
Come now - you can't just drop that in here without the actual details . . . .
(Looks like some of them might be here and here, but still kinda vague.)
posted by flug at 4:20 PM on August 13, 2022
Come now - you can't just drop that in here without the actual details . . . .
(Looks like some of them might be here and here, but still kinda vague.)
posted by flug at 4:20 PM on August 13, 2022
Perhaps if Musk loses, he can cite this as evidence that Twitter is part of a leftist Deep State conspiracy against him.
posted by acb at 4:28 PM on August 13, 2022
posted by acb at 4:28 PM on August 13, 2022
bluesky43: I would like to see a better sourced article than this. In my view, a lot of it reads like a bunch of alarmist speculation.
Seriously. WTF are The Real News and Mint Press?
posted by emelenjr at 7:20 AM on August 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Seriously. WTF are The Real News and Mint Press?
posted by emelenjr at 7:20 AM on August 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
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