"...no longer part of that circus. Figure it out."
October 17, 2022 11:04 AM Subscribe
Actress Patti LuPone, 50-year veteran of Broadway, has apparently just ragequit theater.
The catalyst for LuPone's actions was an incident in which she wasn't even involved; on October 12th, a cast member from the show Hadestown repeatedly broke character mid-show several times to chastise an audience member for "filming the performance". However, Samantha Coleman, the audience member in question, wasn't filming - she is hearing-impaired, and was using a captioning device. Immediately following the incident, Coleman reached out to Hadestown producers to alert them about the confusion - graciously absolving cast member Lillias White for her error, but urging production staff to better educate all actors about the various technologies which assist those with vision and hearing issues to be able to enjoy live theater.
The Hadestown staff released a public apology, as did the theater owners. However, as people discussed the incident on social media, many people recalled occasions when LuPone took a similar step to White - chastising an audience member in 2009 (Mefi previously), or outright taking the phone from an audience member who was texting mid-show in 2015 (Mefi previously). Most recently, she called out an audience member for going maskless this year, during a post-show Q&A following a performance of the show Company. So many people discussing the Hadestown incident compared White to LuPone - both positively and negatively.
At about 11 am New York time, today (October 17th), Patti LuPone posted the following on Twitter:
Among LuPone's credits: The original Eva Peron in Evita, "Fantine" in the original London production of Les Miserables, the original Norma Desmond in the London premiere of Sunset Boulevard, and most recently starring in a gender-swapped production of Company.
The catalyst for LuPone's actions was an incident in which she wasn't even involved; on October 12th, a cast member from the show Hadestown repeatedly broke character mid-show several times to chastise an audience member for "filming the performance". However, Samantha Coleman, the audience member in question, wasn't filming - she is hearing-impaired, and was using a captioning device. Immediately following the incident, Coleman reached out to Hadestown producers to alert them about the confusion - graciously absolving cast member Lillias White for her error, but urging production staff to better educate all actors about the various technologies which assist those with vision and hearing issues to be able to enjoy live theater.
The Hadestown staff released a public apology, as did the theater owners. However, as people discussed the incident on social media, many people recalled occasions when LuPone took a similar step to White - chastising an audience member in 2009 (Mefi previously), or outright taking the phone from an audience member who was texting mid-show in 2015 (Mefi previously). Most recently, she called out an audience member for going maskless this year, during a post-show Q&A following a performance of the show Company. So many people discussing the Hadestown incident compared White to LuPone - both positively and negatively.
At about 11 am New York time, today (October 17th), Patti LuPone posted the following on Twitter:
Quite a week on Broadway, seeing my name being bandied about. Gave up my Equity card; no longer part of that circus. Figure it out.The "Equity Card" refers to LuPone's membership status in Actors' Equity, the actors' union. Without Equity memberhsip, LuPone would not be able to appear in any Broadway production, most touring productions, nor anything off-Broadway, nor any but a handful of off-off-Broadway productions. Effectively, then, giving up an Equity card is a retirement from theater altogether for LuPone. (At this moment, neither Equity nor LuPone have confirmed this is Official.)
Among LuPone's credits: The original Eva Peron in Evita, "Fantine" in the original London production of Les Miserables, the original Norma Desmond in the London premiere of Sunset Boulevard, and most recently starring in a gender-swapped production of Company.
.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:25 AM on October 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:25 AM on October 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
Assistive tech for a lot of people often is smartphones, and while yeah, it's not an awesome feeling for your show to get recorded, or just for someone to be using a phone during a performance, maybe it'd be a better idea for people working in theater to resist the urge for righteous indignation in the middle of a performance. Theater people of anyone ought to know that everyone has their own story.
Follow up quietly if you must, but please, people living with disabilities are just trying to exist the same way everyone else is.
posted by Aleyn at 11:41 AM on October 17, 2022 [33 favorites]
Follow up quietly if you must, but please, people living with disabilities are just trying to exist the same way everyone else is.
posted by Aleyn at 11:41 AM on October 17, 2022 [33 favorites]
Not to mention the whole idea of stopping a performance to chastise one person with a smartphone smacks of teacher punishing the class for the actions of one or two individuals. It's not fair for the rest of the audience, and would definitely diminish the performance more than whatever the audience member was doing. If LuPone feels called out then rightly so, I should think.
posted by Aleyn at 11:45 AM on October 17, 2022 [21 favorites]
posted by Aleyn at 11:45 AM on October 17, 2022 [21 favorites]
Just a note that most actors' ire about people recording or texting during a show isn't just prompted by "it's not an awesome feeling", in many cases it's actively illegal. The run of a show lives and dies by "can we get enough butts in theater seats", and someone who chooses to stay home and watch a pirated video someone posted on youtube is someone who isn't seeing a show in person, and that is a tiny step closer to the producer having to close things down.
That said, I totally and absolutely agree that the best way for an angry actor to handle it is to alert the stage manager or house manager so they can attend to things more discreetly.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:48 AM on October 17, 2022 [20 favorites]
That said, I totally and absolutely agree that the best way for an angry actor to handle it is to alert the stage manager or house manager so they can attend to things more discreetly.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:48 AM on October 17, 2022 [20 favorites]
I'm not trying to address legality here; if it turns out they're recording then they should definitely face consequences. I want people to think more carefully about how to administer those consequences however.
posted by Aleyn at 11:51 AM on October 17, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by Aleyn at 11:51 AM on October 17, 2022 [7 favorites]
The theater or whoever is managing the performance should have a policy and be responsible for managing any incidents. Actors should follow the policy, which would presumably not involve them stopping in a performance. And if management isn't dealing with this stuff effectively, then address it with them. People can be super annoying and do things they aren't supposed to do, but that kind of happens everywhere.
If it were a one-person show, or a solo singer-songwriter, then do whatever you want.
posted by snofoam at 11:54 AM on October 17, 2022 [3 favorites]
If it were a one-person show, or a solo singer-songwriter, then do whatever you want.
posted by snofoam at 11:54 AM on October 17, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm getting a 403 for the main link (geoblocked?) so here it is on the Wayback Machine.
posted by Ten Cold Hot Dogs at 11:55 AM on October 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Ten Cold Hot Dogs at 11:55 AM on October 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
I want people to think more carefully about how to administer those consequences however.
And I agree with you on that point. I'm simply clarifying that when actors are that angry at scofflaws it's not totally because they're divas or whatever, is all. (Although, I think it's the divas who are more likely to go vigilante; the more professional actors actually follow the proper procedure and let the stagehands take care of it. ....Although, they probably really, REALLY are tempted to go hogwild like that.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:57 AM on October 17, 2022 [3 favorites]
And I agree with you on that point. I'm simply clarifying that when actors are that angry at scofflaws it's not totally because they're divas or whatever, is all. (Although, I think it's the divas who are more likely to go vigilante; the more professional actors actually follow the proper procedure and let the stagehands take care of it. ....Although, they probably really, REALLY are tempted to go hogwild like that.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:57 AM on October 17, 2022 [3 favorites]
That said, I totally and absolutely agree that the best way for an angry actor to handle it is to alert the stage manager or house manager so they can attend to things more discreetly.
This. I volunteer usher at a local theater that includes traveling off-broadway shows. We are absolutely used to addressing cell phone use, as well as learning from patrons the constantly evolving world of assistive and adaptive devices. Someone will step in, understand the situation, and address it, leaving it to the actor to focus on their performance knowing that if the device is still in use - for whatever reason - it is because it is allowed.
posted by meinvt at 11:57 AM on October 17, 2022 [13 favorites]
This. I volunteer usher at a local theater that includes traveling off-broadway shows. We are absolutely used to addressing cell phone use, as well as learning from patrons the constantly evolving world of assistive and adaptive devices. Someone will step in, understand the situation, and address it, leaving it to the actor to focus on their performance knowing that if the device is still in use - for whatever reason - it is because it is allowed.
posted by meinvt at 11:57 AM on October 17, 2022 [13 favorites]
The last show I was at, two large ushers enforced a house policy on some MAWM three times. Silently, in the dark, just by looming over him. The show just went on.
In his case it was about wearing a mask, but I would've been totally cool if instead it was because he was recording the show. Rules are rules: it's all on the back of the ticket stub.
(I mean, I would also love it if the theater just figured out who it was by their seat location, and ganked the person that way as well, but that doesn't work perfectly with situations like resales.)
posted by wenestvedt at 11:57 AM on October 17, 2022 [3 favorites]
In his case it was about wearing a mask, but I would've been totally cool if instead it was because he was recording the show. Rules are rules: it's all on the back of the ticket stub.
(I mean, I would also love it if the theater just figured out who it was by their seat location, and ganked the person that way as well, but that doesn't work perfectly with situations like resales.)
posted by wenestvedt at 11:57 AM on October 17, 2022 [3 favorites]
and someone who chooses to stay home and watch a pirated video someone posted on youtube is someone who isn't seeing a show in person
Absolutely a valid concern, and I'd suggest that a further argument against audience members recording performances without approval is the almost uniformly dogshit quality of said recordings. The herky-jerky handheld motion, lines being drowned out by audience reactions or just horrible sound, the lighting going randomly from washed out to pitch dark and back again any number of times. I imagine the reaction of the viewer would be more like, "you paid $80 to sit through THAT?" Maybe that should be the focus of an anti-recording campaign: your concert/theatre videos SUCK, stop embarrassing yourself, put the phone away and enjoy the show.
posted by hangashore at 12:08 PM on October 17, 2022 [8 favorites]
Absolutely a valid concern, and I'd suggest that a further argument against audience members recording performances without approval is the almost uniformly dogshit quality of said recordings. The herky-jerky handheld motion, lines being drowned out by audience reactions or just horrible sound, the lighting going randomly from washed out to pitch dark and back again any number of times. I imagine the reaction of the viewer would be more like, "you paid $80 to sit through THAT?" Maybe that should be the focus of an anti-recording campaign: your concert/theatre videos SUCK, stop embarrassing yourself, put the phone away and enjoy the show.
posted by hangashore at 12:08 PM on October 17, 2022 [8 favorites]
This framing of things it seems to me is itself un-helpful drama. She didn't rage quit. She recently retired. This tweet is just saying she is retired now, so leave her out of it, let those still involved work it out.
posted by rubin at 12:12 PM on October 17, 2022 [53 favorites]
posted by rubin at 12:12 PM on October 17, 2022 [53 favorites]
The run of a show lives and dies by "can we get enough butts in theater seats", and someone who chooses to stay home and watch a pirated video someone posted on youtube is someone who isn't seeing a show in person, and that is a tiny step closer to the producer having to close things down.
Someone who chooses to watch a pirated video is almost certainly someone who has already seen the show and is reliving it or would love to see it but can't for whatever reason. I don't buy that a pirated video is substituting in the marketplace for actually attending live theatre on any appreciable scale.
Now, if the argument is that the pirated video is robbing the show of DVD sales or soundtrack sales, that I could see being true.
posted by jacquilynne at 12:13 PM on October 17, 2022 [24 favorites]
Someone who chooses to watch a pirated video is almost certainly someone who has already seen the show and is reliving it or would love to see it but can't for whatever reason. I don't buy that a pirated video is substituting in the marketplace for actually attending live theatre on any appreciable scale.
Now, if the argument is that the pirated video is robbing the show of DVD sales or soundtrack sales, that I could see being true.
posted by jacquilynne at 12:13 PM on October 17, 2022 [24 favorites]
The linked article mentioned an incident with flash photography. Some jackass took flash pictures of a show I was in once, and it left me too blinded to get offstage safely. I had to discreetly grab a castmate to lead me off.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 12:13 PM on October 17, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 12:13 PM on October 17, 2022 [10 favorites]
UPDATE, 2:30PM: LuPone has provided a further response. Read it below.
Contacted for a further comment, LuPone shared the following: "When the run of Company ended this past July, I knew I wouldn’t be on stage for a very long time. And at that point I made the decision to resign from Equity." LuPone's representatives shared that the Tony winner will not have any further statement and will not be speaking about this further. Requests for comment from Actors' Equity were not returned at the time of publication.
The "further response" seems to be indicating that her tweet wasn't meant to say that she was quitting because of the incident, but rather that she'd already quit a couple months ago so she'd like to not keep being linked to the incident. I think, anyway?
posted by solotoro at 12:13 PM on October 17, 2022 [19 favorites]
Contacted for a further comment, LuPone shared the following: "When the run of Company ended this past July, I knew I wouldn’t be on stage for a very long time. And at that point I made the decision to resign from Equity." LuPone's representatives shared that the Tony winner will not have any further statement and will not be speaking about this further. Requests for comment from Actors' Equity were not returned at the time of publication.
The "further response" seems to be indicating that her tweet wasn't meant to say that she was quitting because of the incident, but rather that she'd already quit a couple months ago so she'd like to not keep being linked to the incident. I think, anyway?
posted by solotoro at 12:13 PM on October 17, 2022 [19 favorites]
It's not fair for the rest of the audience, and would definitely diminish the performance more than whatever the audience member was doing.
Agree, and while I'm sure every performer has fantasized about this righteous public dunking on an inconsiderate audience member in their heads, I would not go back to a house where this happened. I might even just leave unless the show was otherwise so fantastic I couldn't stand to miss the rest.
someone who chooses to stay home and watch a pirated video someone posted on youtube is someone who isn't seeing a show in person
Yes but watching it at home is not the same. That's why movie theaters and live theater still exist. I could probably also buy a recording of whatever the symphony is playing, and by musicians more acclaimed than my local ones. But the live-ness of it can't be captured on a recording. I'm sorry attendance isn't what you (the actors) wish it was, but bootleg recording is not what's doing it.
posted by ctmf at 12:13 PM on October 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
Agree, and while I'm sure every performer has fantasized about this righteous public dunking on an inconsiderate audience member in their heads, I would not go back to a house where this happened. I might even just leave unless the show was otherwise so fantastic I couldn't stand to miss the rest.
someone who chooses to stay home and watch a pirated video someone posted on youtube is someone who isn't seeing a show in person
Yes but watching it at home is not the same. That's why movie theaters and live theater still exist. I could probably also buy a recording of whatever the symphony is playing, and by musicians more acclaimed than my local ones. But the live-ness of it can't be captured on a recording. I'm sorry attendance isn't what you (the actors) wish it was, but bootleg recording is not what's doing it.
posted by ctmf at 12:13 PM on October 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
Actors just really shouldn't feel like they need to stop the show unless it's health & safety. The show must go on.
posted by bleep at 12:14 PM on October 17, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by bleep at 12:14 PM on October 17, 2022 [3 favorites]
She didn't rage quit. She recently retired. This tweet is just saying she is retired now, so leave her out of it, let those still involved work it out.
At the time I posted this, that bit wasn't clear - many assumed that this incident PROMPTED the retirement.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:17 PM on October 17, 2022 [8 favorites]
At the time I posted this, that bit wasn't clear - many assumed that this incident PROMPTED the retirement.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:17 PM on October 17, 2022 [8 favorites]
jacquilynne : I don't buy that a pirated video is substituting in the marketplace for actually attending live theatre on any appreciable scale.
Hear, hear!
I live in a third-tier city and I am much too tall for the seats in my regional theatre. I would love it if more Broadway shows did the thing that "Hamilton" did for Disney+ in 2020, with a multi-camera setup and good audio, because that's my best chance to see it besides an overnight trip to New York city.
ctmf: Yes but watching it at home is not the same.
You're right, it's better! I am 6'1" and I haven't been comfortable in a theater set since, oh, maybe the Guthrie in 1988.
Sure, eventually the touring company of "Hamilton" came to my nearest city, and I even won tickets to go see it with my wife -- but that's only like two years after getting to settle in on my couch and watch the show, and then after my daughter watched it we had great conversations about it.
Bootlegs suck, but I understand theater kids with no access to the Big City who want to see this season's hit. As an adult, I would happily vote with my wallet to watch a good video version.
posted by wenestvedt at 12:31 PM on October 17, 2022 [27 favorites]
Hear, hear!
I live in a third-tier city and I am much too tall for the seats in my regional theatre. I would love it if more Broadway shows did the thing that "Hamilton" did for Disney+ in 2020, with a multi-camera setup and good audio, because that's my best chance to see it besides an overnight trip to New York city.
ctmf: Yes but watching it at home is not the same.
You're right, it's better! I am 6'1" and I haven't been comfortable in a theater set since, oh, maybe the Guthrie in 1988.
Sure, eventually the touring company of "Hamilton" came to my nearest city, and I even won tickets to go see it with my wife -- but that's only like two years after getting to settle in on my couch and watch the show, and then after my daughter watched it we had great conversations about it.
Bootlegs suck, but I understand theater kids with no access to the Big City who want to see this season's hit. As an adult, I would happily vote with my wallet to watch a good video version.
posted by wenestvedt at 12:31 PM on October 17, 2022 [27 favorites]
I'm with you, Wenestvedt. There's a good number of shows I'd be interested in seeing but it's just not practical or temporal.
The New York Public Library has an archive of 50 years worth of live performances including almost everything on Broadway, but it's for research purposes only.
posted by JoeZydeco at 12:47 PM on October 17, 2022 [12 favorites]
The New York Public Library has an archive of 50 years worth of live performances including almost everything on Broadway, but it's for research purposes only.
posted by JoeZydeco at 12:47 PM on October 17, 2022 [12 favorites]
This might be a bit "get off of my lawn", but I think these occurrences are a symptom of a much wider phenomena of some people in general feeling those rules (whatever they might be) don't apply to me, and then instead of being admonished, they face no consequences.
(Obviously not speaking here of the hearing impaired audience member. Talking about the taking photos/texting/not wearing a mask audience members.)
posted by wittgenstein at 1:02 PM on October 17, 2022 [5 favorites]
(Obviously not speaking here of the hearing impaired audience member. Talking about the taking photos/texting/not wearing a mask audience members.)
posted by wittgenstein at 1:02 PM on October 17, 2022 [5 favorites]
This might be a bit "get off of my lawn", but I think these occurrences are a symptom of a much wider phenomena of some people in general feeling those rules (whatever they might be) don't apply to me, and then instead of being admonished, they face no consequences.
You're right. A lot of young theater fans seem to feel absolutely entitled to bootlegs and are indignant that anyone could object -- it's classist, it's gatekeeping, etc. The thing is, I do believe plays should be filmed and, if the numbers provide it, broadly released. People will go see big productions when they can, but the kids in Flyover Country also have money, even if it's not the kind of money that allows them to make trips to NYC and see shows. Still, the attitude is hard to love.
As wenestvedt says, sometimes getting your butt into a theater seat is a problem even if you've paid for it. They're as cramped as airline seats or worse, and watching a show with all your coats and purses -- whew. Hard to get up at intermission and fight for the ten toilets they have.
posted by Countess Elena at 1:14 PM on October 17, 2022 [13 favorites]
You're right. A lot of young theater fans seem to feel absolutely entitled to bootlegs and are indignant that anyone could object -- it's classist, it's gatekeeping, etc. The thing is, I do believe plays should be filmed and, if the numbers provide it, broadly released. People will go see big productions when they can, but the kids in Flyover Country also have money, even if it's not the kind of money that allows them to make trips to NYC and see shows. Still, the attitude is hard to love.
As wenestvedt says, sometimes getting your butt into a theater seat is a problem even if you've paid for it. They're as cramped as airline seats or worse, and watching a show with all your coats and purses -- whew. Hard to get up at intermission and fight for the ten toilets they have.
posted by Countess Elena at 1:14 PM on October 17, 2022 [13 favorites]
Since I find "Patti LuPone announces retirement" way more on-topic and way more interesting than another tired rehashing of "cell phones in theaters"—seriously, just reread this thread until you get to the comment that sounds like you, then point to it excitedly or whatever—let me just say that I hope Patti will occasionally let herself appear on TV (or that she's still allowed to). I get "Remember That We Suffered" from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend stuck in my head all the goddamn time.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 1:14 PM on October 17, 2022 [14 favorites]
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 1:14 PM on October 17, 2022 [14 favorites]
On one hand, there are a number of shows that really hit differently when you're there in person. The live, in-the-room, palpable tension, connection that comes with inhabiting the same space as the action and the actors can make for a wonderful or harrowing or wonderfully harrowing artistic experience. On the other hand, in my experience these are almost never big budget Broadway musicals.
posted by thivaia at 1:15 PM on October 17, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by thivaia at 1:15 PM on October 17, 2022 [3 favorites]
I totally thought of Patti LuPone chewing out audience members when I heard this Hadestown story originally.
As a performer, this is what I thought about the incident itself:
(a) I didn't know they had captioning devices in existence, presumably the performer did not know either and/or how to recognize it?
(b) Why the hell did the performer chew her out in public, stopping the show? Twice? Literally, if we see someone we think is filming in the audience, we tell a stage manager and they handle it. Someone is quietly sent out there to say something, end of story. In this case, "Oh, never mind, it's a captioning device."
Optimally, you don't stop a show to chew someone out in the audience unless it's health and safety/the person is screaming. Like I certainly enjoyed the vicariousness of Patti LuPone chewing people out back in the day, but...yeah, that's really something that shouldn't happen much.
The thing is, I do believe plays should be filmed and, if the numbers provide it, broadly released. People will go see big productions when they can, but the kids in Flyover Country also have money, even if it's not the kind of money that allows them to make trips to NYC and see shows.
I agree with this, as someone who will never go to Broadway. I would absolutely give money (and have, thanks Hamilton!) to pay for a shot of a musical I'll never be able to see. However, there's Legal Reasons why filming isn't supposed to happen and why performers/anyone else working at the theater is supposed to report it when they see someone doing it. (Or going maskless in the audience back in the day, that was a thing we reported on too.)
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:18 PM on October 17, 2022 [11 favorites]
As a performer, this is what I thought about the incident itself:
(a) I didn't know they had captioning devices in existence, presumably the performer did not know either and/or how to recognize it?
(b) Why the hell did the performer chew her out in public, stopping the show? Twice? Literally, if we see someone we think is filming in the audience, we tell a stage manager and they handle it. Someone is quietly sent out there to say something, end of story. In this case, "Oh, never mind, it's a captioning device."
Optimally, you don't stop a show to chew someone out in the audience unless it's health and safety/the person is screaming. Like I certainly enjoyed the vicariousness of Patti LuPone chewing people out back in the day, but...yeah, that's really something that shouldn't happen much.
The thing is, I do believe plays should be filmed and, if the numbers provide it, broadly released. People will go see big productions when they can, but the kids in Flyover Country also have money, even if it's not the kind of money that allows them to make trips to NYC and see shows.
I agree with this, as someone who will never go to Broadway. I would absolutely give money (and have, thanks Hamilton!) to pay for a shot of a musical I'll never be able to see. However, there's Legal Reasons why filming isn't supposed to happen and why performers/anyone else working at the theater is supposed to report it when they see someone doing it. (Or going maskless in the audience back in the day, that was a thing we reported on too.)
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:18 PM on October 17, 2022 [11 favorites]
Ex-stage manager here who sees both sides, sorta. I definitely think that actors should indeed leave the policing to the stagehands and house management. (That's one of the many things I was there for!) And yes, I do think more theater should be filmed and accessible to the people who don't get a chance to come see the show, especially since ticket prices are completely outrageous now.
But I also understand why the actors can get so completely livid about this - some audience members are just...gah. But they are definitely in the minority. Sometimes there legitimately is a selfish asshole who does have the whole "I paid for a ticket, I should be able to take photos or text during the show if I wanna" attitude. Or - sometimes it's the girls who came to see Daniel Radcliffe in EQUUS and spent all of act 1 hissing at him to "Hey! Dan! Look over here at us!". (He told that story on a talk show once, and said that he bit his tongue until intermission and then immediately went to the stage manager and said "FOR THE LOVE OF GOD can someone PLEASE MOVE THEM.")
but....sometimes it's just a panicky audience member whose phone goes off during the show and they think "okay, I can't answer because talking would be bad, I'll let it go to voicemail" because they're panicking and forgetting that they can turn the ringer off right away. (That happened during the run of a show I was doing once, and I was sympathetic, but...we still addressed that with a second announcement to please turn off your phone's ringers at the top of act 2. ...Because her ring tone was a chicken clucking.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:30 PM on October 17, 2022 [8 favorites]
But I also understand why the actors can get so completely livid about this - some audience members are just...gah. But they are definitely in the minority. Sometimes there legitimately is a selfish asshole who does have the whole "I paid for a ticket, I should be able to take photos or text during the show if I wanna" attitude. Or - sometimes it's the girls who came to see Daniel Radcliffe in EQUUS and spent all of act 1 hissing at him to "Hey! Dan! Look over here at us!". (He told that story on a talk show once, and said that he bit his tongue until intermission and then immediately went to the stage manager and said "FOR THE LOVE OF GOD can someone PLEASE MOVE THEM.")
but....sometimes it's just a panicky audience member whose phone goes off during the show and they think "okay, I can't answer because talking would be bad, I'll let it go to voicemail" because they're panicking and forgetting that they can turn the ringer off right away. (That happened during the run of a show I was doing once, and I was sympathetic, but...we still addressed that with a second announcement to please turn off your phone's ringers at the top of act 2. ...Because her ring tone was a chicken clucking.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:30 PM on October 17, 2022 [8 favorites]
Since I helped derail this, allow me: I see that Ms. LuPone's career is a long one, with her Tony awards spanning literal decades. What else can she do?
I mean, for a star like that to be limited to "anywhere but Broadway" because of leaving Equity, how much are we likely to see her in the future? I know the article said "concerts and cabarets" are still available gigs, but...how realistic is that? Could she switch to TV and shoot for prestige dramas or something? Or is this likely to really be the end?
posted by wenestvedt at 1:31 PM on October 17, 2022
I mean, for a star like that to be limited to "anywhere but Broadway" because of leaving Equity, how much are we likely to see her in the future? I know the article said "concerts and cabarets" are still available gigs, but...how realistic is that? Could she switch to TV and shoot for prestige dramas or something? Or is this likely to really be the end?
posted by wenestvedt at 1:31 PM on October 17, 2022
Listen, I am the theater goer to tap someone’s shoulder (even if I have to lean across a few people) to tell them to put their phone away. That being said, I don’t think there’s as much clarity around the feelings of bootlegging anymore. I struggle to come up with the cast members name but there was a Hamilton member whose TikTok was largely devoted to people requesting certain dance moves and working them into one scene, Alamo always posted with bootleg prof the next day. Sure, it was likely another cast/crew member doing it, but it’s less easy to complain about the behavior when the cast themselves are encouraging it.
As for assistive devices, it’s sad that there isn’t more cast and crew knowledge about them and this scenario happened. I hope it may be a push to improved accessibility.
posted by raccoon409 at 1:32 PM on October 17, 2022 [2 favorites]
As for assistive devices, it’s sad that there isn’t more cast and crew knowledge about them and this scenario happened. I hope it may be a push to improved accessibility.
posted by raccoon409 at 1:32 PM on October 17, 2022 [2 favorites]
As for assistive devices, it’s sad that there isn’t more cast and crew knowledge about them and this scenario happened. I hope it may be a push to improved accessibility.
Sort-of related - one of the more delightful moments from a show was when I went backstage about 15 minutes before we opened to let the cast know that "someone brought a seeing-eye dog to the show with them, so if you see a dog in the house you are not losing your mind, don't worry."....He was a very well-behaved good boy. Apparently theater attendance can be part of seeing-eye dog training.
But maybe that's the way to do things - the stage manager or house manager alerts the cast in advance, if they know about assistive devices?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:37 PM on October 17, 2022 [10 favorites]
Sort-of related - one of the more delightful moments from a show was when I went backstage about 15 minutes before we opened to let the cast know that "someone brought a seeing-eye dog to the show with them, so if you see a dog in the house you are not losing your mind, don't worry."....He was a very well-behaved good boy. Apparently theater attendance can be part of seeing-eye dog training.
But maybe that's the way to do things - the stage manager or house manager alerts the cast in advance, if they know about assistive devices?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:37 PM on October 17, 2022 [10 favorites]
.... Man .... I'm trying to picture being on stage and seeing a unexpected dog in the audience.... Brain freeze....
posted by Jacen at 1:46 PM on October 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Jacen at 1:46 PM on October 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
Bootlegs suck, but I understand theater kids with no access to the Big City who want to see this season's hit. As an adult, I would happily vote with my wallet to watch a good video version.
Seems like we could take lessons from seven decades ago, when sports leagues were resisting the broadcast of their games live via television, fearing that fans would stay home and watch for free. But the exactly the opposite happened, that seeing the games on TV built the fan base and were a great advertisement for the in-stadium experience, with each major (North) American pro league simultaneously expanding their number of franchises and their TV coverage during the 1960s and to this day.
For plays? I know there have been lavishly filmed versions of some of the biggest theatrical productions, e.g. the Disney+ version of Hamilton. But maybe something that might be called a 'preview video version' (or some better name, help meeeee) might work. High-quality video recordings from several fixed angles, excellent sound mixing, equipment located so as not to interfere with the audience experience since the videos would be shot during live performances. The whole thing packaged (including captions and SAP/descriptive audio, as needed) to be sold via iTunes, Google Play, Amazon etc. to rent or buy for a reasonable fee, or offered to streaming services, proceeds (mostly) go back to the production companies. So, way better than those horrible janky-ass phone videos, cheaper and faster than a big-budget film/video project, available to those of us who can't just grab the subway down to Broadway, and whetting the appetite for those who'd really want to get the full in-person real-deal theatre experience.
posted by hangashore at 1:46 PM on October 17, 2022 [10 favorites]
Seems like we could take lessons from seven decades ago, when sports leagues were resisting the broadcast of their games live via television, fearing that fans would stay home and watch for free. But the exactly the opposite happened, that seeing the games on TV built the fan base and were a great advertisement for the in-stadium experience, with each major (North) American pro league simultaneously expanding their number of franchises and their TV coverage during the 1960s and to this day.
For plays? I know there have been lavishly filmed versions of some of the biggest theatrical productions, e.g. the Disney+ version of Hamilton. But maybe something that might be called a 'preview video version' (or some better name, help meeeee) might work. High-quality video recordings from several fixed angles, excellent sound mixing, equipment located so as not to interfere with the audience experience since the videos would be shot during live performances. The whole thing packaged (including captions and SAP/descriptive audio, as needed) to be sold via iTunes, Google Play, Amazon etc. to rent or buy for a reasonable fee, or offered to streaming services, proceeds (mostly) go back to the production companies. So, way better than those horrible janky-ass phone videos, cheaper and faster than a big-budget film/video project, available to those of us who can't just grab the subway down to Broadway, and whetting the appetite for those who'd really want to get the full in-person real-deal theatre experience.
posted by hangashore at 1:46 PM on October 17, 2022 [10 favorites]
Since I find "Patti LuPone announces retirement" way more on-topic and way more interesting than another tired rehashing of "cell phones in theaters"—seriously, just reread this thread until you get to the comment that sounds like you, then point to it excitedly or whatever—let me just say that I hope Patti will occasionally let herself appear on TV (or that she's still allowed to). I get "Remember That We Suffered" yt from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend stuck in my head all the goddamn time.
For me it's What's the Point in Feeling Blue from Steven Universe.
She was in a livestreamed virtual production of Boston Marriage (your basic Mamet play, only with 19th century lesbians) and she was fabulous, so I also hope she's not done with acting entirely.
posted by creepygirl at 2:10 PM on October 17, 2022 [4 favorites]
For me it's What's the Point in Feeling Blue from Steven Universe.
She was in a livestreamed virtual production of Boston Marriage (your basic Mamet play, only with 19th century lesbians) and she was fabulous, so I also hope she's not done with acting entirely.
posted by creepygirl at 2:10 PM on October 17, 2022 [4 favorites]
I get excited if I see a dog! There's a real cutie that sits under a guy's chair in the front row sometimes!
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:11 PM on October 17, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:11 PM on October 17, 2022 [4 favorites]
Find me a Broadway actor who hasn't watched a bootleg themselves 😂 but I suppose it's the distracting or entitled bootleg behavior they object to.
Not having an equity card isn't going to stop Patti Lupone from doing a show if she ever feels like it. She can't go to equity auditions but when was the last time she auditioned? You don't need an equity card to work an equity contract - working equity contracts is one way you get the card. Giving up her card lets her work non-equity tours which is a whole other drama.
posted by muddgirl at 2:12 PM on October 17, 2022 [6 favorites]
Not having an equity card isn't going to stop Patti Lupone from doing a show if she ever feels like it. She can't go to equity auditions but when was the last time she auditioned? You don't need an equity card to work an equity contract - working equity contracts is one way you get the card. Giving up her card lets her work non-equity tours which is a whole other drama.
posted by muddgirl at 2:12 PM on October 17, 2022 [6 favorites]
High-quality video recordings from several fixed angles, excellent sound mixing, equipment located so as not to interfere with the audience experience since the videos would be shot during live performances. The whole thing packaged (including captions and SAP/descriptive audio, as needed) to be sold via iTunes, Google Play, Amazon etc. to rent or buy for a reasonable fee, or offered to streaming services, proceeds (mostly) go back to the production companies.
I live a few hours from New York but am scared to death to drive there and don't have the money for Broadway shows (honestly, I don't even have the money for the touring company shows at the venue in the city I will drive in), but I'd pay for what you're describing above, hangashore. Pandemic sure showed that it was possible. The UK National Theatre released filmed versions of their plays to stay on people's radar while all the theatres were shut down. I watched both versions of the Benedict Cumberbatch/Jonny Lee Miller Frankenstein. They were free at the time because pandemic, but I sure would have paid to see them. And I think the sports analogy that you brought up makes perfect sense. How else are you going to build a real fan base these days?
posted by dlugoczaj at 2:55 PM on October 17, 2022 [6 favorites]
I live a few hours from New York but am scared to death to drive there and don't have the money for Broadway shows (honestly, I don't even have the money for the touring company shows at the venue in the city I will drive in), but I'd pay for what you're describing above, hangashore. Pandemic sure showed that it was possible. The UK National Theatre released filmed versions of their plays to stay on people's radar while all the theatres were shut down. I watched both versions of the Benedict Cumberbatch/Jonny Lee Miller Frankenstein. They were free at the time because pandemic, but I sure would have paid to see them. And I think the sports analogy that you brought up makes perfect sense. How else are you going to build a real fan base these days?
posted by dlugoczaj at 2:55 PM on October 17, 2022 [6 favorites]
some audience members are just...gah. But they are definitely in the minority.
Which is why I think actors on stage should leave it to the ushers/managers to deal with it. Shouting from the stage by stopping the performance makes it a bad experience for the vast majority who are there to enjoy the performance. Unless it is completely distracting: like ringing or flash photography; then all bets are off.
Which reminds me of something related. A couple of years ago at the CSO performance being conducted by Muti; there was an actual brawl in the Box seats. I think there is a unwritten rule that seats get exchanged during intermission where the people at the back seats go to the front for the second half. The couple occupying the front seats refused to relinquish their seats and the guy sitting at the back didn't care for it. So right about the time the second half of the performance was about to begin; dudes started punching each other out!
posted by indianbadger1 at 3:00 PM on October 17, 2022 [5 favorites]
Which is why I think actors on stage should leave it to the ushers/managers to deal with it. Shouting from the stage by stopping the performance makes it a bad experience for the vast majority who are there to enjoy the performance. Unless it is completely distracting: like ringing or flash photography; then all bets are off.
Which reminds me of something related. A couple of years ago at the CSO performance being conducted by Muti; there was an actual brawl in the Box seats. I think there is a unwritten rule that seats get exchanged during intermission where the people at the back seats go to the front for the second half. The couple occupying the front seats refused to relinquish their seats and the guy sitting at the back didn't care for it. So right about the time the second half of the performance was about to begin; dudes started punching each other out!
posted by indianbadger1 at 3:00 PM on October 17, 2022 [5 favorites]
Does anybody know what captioning device or technology this might have been? Are we at the point where a built-in phone mic feeding a remote human or AI caption service yields something useful? I would have thought a feed from the house sound system would be needed for enough intelligibility to generate proper captions. Or maybe you can use one of the assistive listening devices plugged into a phone...
posted by hovey at 3:27 PM on October 17, 2022
posted by hovey at 3:27 PM on October 17, 2022
I don't know if this is the only service but it seems to be the main one. It's basically pre-scripted captions that are somehow cued, maybe by the sound board. Modern systems run on an app on your phone. But according to this list (which may be out of date), hadestown is using an older i-caption system which has a proprietary caption device.
No matter if someone is using an app or a proprietary device, I think we can imagine that to see the action & read the captions at the same time it's going to be held up closer to the patrons eye level.
posted by muddgirl at 3:43 PM on October 17, 2022 [3 favorites]
No matter if someone is using an app or a proprietary device, I think we can imagine that to see the action & read the captions at the same time it's going to be held up closer to the patrons eye level.
posted by muddgirl at 3:43 PM on October 17, 2022 [3 favorites]
There have always been people who come to the theatre and don't pay attention. My father has slept through most of my shows that he's seen (he's slept through 50 years of his favorite tv shows, so i don't take it personally). Now, when somebody isn't paying attention, you see their face light up in the audience, often with the dancing light effect of then watching something else entirely. It's incredibly deflating for performers to see that there are people in the audience who literally DGAF about the performance. We're trying to give it our all and if a chunk of the audience don't care, that really makes it a lot harder. Not to say we don't still do it, but why make it harder than it already is?
It should totally be the theatre's job to have clear rules and procedures - like "if you need captions, this is what we do" - that everyone is aware of. It should also be the theater that addresses audience issues, via ushers. Most of the time, when I hear about actors breaking character to deal with audience members, it's a sign that the theatrer has failed to address the issue in any other way, and usually over multiple nights.
(Lighting designers spend a ton of time and effort trying to create an atmosphere that helps focus attention and tell the story - in addition to all their other artistry. Little uncontrolled lights all over the theatre distract from the artistic effect. Audience members can't help but have their eye drawn to flashing devices, even if for just an instant. It's not just the performers whose work is being disrespected. )
Theatre is of the moment. Legalities aside, somebody using a device because they're bored during a live theatre show is sending a big fuck you to everyone onstage and everyone in the audience because they're making their disinterest everyone's distraction. Walk out if you're that bored. That's far less distracting for everyone.
And, just to be perfectly clear, people who need additional support to enjoy the show should be provided that support. Theaters without clear policies and procedures to support them are throwing both the effected audience members and the performers under the bus. We want everyone who wants to enjoy the show to have that opportunity.
And if you're at a show and get bored? Do as my dad does and fall quietly asleep in the dark. We'll likely never know.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:45 PM on October 17, 2022 [13 favorites]
It should totally be the theatre's job to have clear rules and procedures - like "if you need captions, this is what we do" - that everyone is aware of. It should also be the theater that addresses audience issues, via ushers. Most of the time, when I hear about actors breaking character to deal with audience members, it's a sign that the theatrer has failed to address the issue in any other way, and usually over multiple nights.
(Lighting designers spend a ton of time and effort trying to create an atmosphere that helps focus attention and tell the story - in addition to all their other artistry. Little uncontrolled lights all over the theatre distract from the artistic effect. Audience members can't help but have their eye drawn to flashing devices, even if for just an instant. It's not just the performers whose work is being disrespected. )
Theatre is of the moment. Legalities aside, somebody using a device because they're bored during a live theatre show is sending a big fuck you to everyone onstage and everyone in the audience because they're making their disinterest everyone's distraction. Walk out if you're that bored. That's far less distracting for everyone.
And, just to be perfectly clear, people who need additional support to enjoy the show should be provided that support. Theaters without clear policies and procedures to support them are throwing both the effected audience members and the performers under the bus. We want everyone who wants to enjoy the show to have that opportunity.
And if you're at a show and get bored? Do as my dad does and fall quietly asleep in the dark. We'll likely never know.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:45 PM on October 17, 2022 [13 favorites]
I've never been a fan of LuPone, but I think she's at that level of stardom where she could cross over to film or TV on name recognition alone if she wanted to. There's the West End. Concert tours can be pretty rewarding. And as others have pointed out, she can rejoin whenever she wants. I don't know how the insurance/pension part of Equity membership works, but I'm sure she's got a plan for that.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 3:45 PM on October 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 3:45 PM on October 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
But maybe that's the way to do things - the stage manager or house manager alerts the cast in advance, if they know about assistive devices?
Absolutely, and it’s hugely helpful when anyone ordering tickets provides extra information. If we know you’ll show up with a walker, wheelchair, crutches, need a fidget or assistive listening device we can be ready to assist. At the same time, there’s no obligation to provide that information and we do the best we can in the moment. It can still be a challenge stowing a walker or wheelchair as a thousand people stream in to their seats. I’m reminded of Jerry Maguire, “Help me help you”.
And, on preview, I totally agree on the attention and lighting. People get really oblivious that even though their phone is shoved down in their crotch it’s still lighting their face like a foot light and casting a shadow of their head on the ceiling fifty feet up.
posted by meinvt at 3:51 PM on October 17, 2022 [6 favorites]
Absolutely, and it’s hugely helpful when anyone ordering tickets provides extra information. If we know you’ll show up with a walker, wheelchair, crutches, need a fidget or assistive listening device we can be ready to assist. At the same time, there’s no obligation to provide that information and we do the best we can in the moment. It can still be a challenge stowing a walker or wheelchair as a thousand people stream in to their seats. I’m reminded of Jerry Maguire, “Help me help you”.
And, on preview, I totally agree on the attention and lighting. People get really oblivious that even though their phone is shoved down in their crotch it’s still lighting their face like a foot light and casting a shadow of their head on the ceiling fifty feet up.
posted by meinvt at 3:51 PM on October 17, 2022 [6 favorites]
When I go to a show I'm too busy looking at the stage to notice what other people are doing.
posted by bleep at 4:01 PM on October 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by bleep at 4:01 PM on October 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
I don't know if it's attention, hearing, or venue related; but I couldn't follow anything being said in the theatre shows the couple times that I went, and I would love to have captioning. I'm one of those people who watches YouTube videos at 2x speed with closed-captions on, so go figure.
posted by meowzilla at 4:04 PM on October 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by meowzilla at 4:04 PM on October 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
> I don't know if it's attention, hearing, or venue related; but I couldn't follow anything being said in the theatre shows the couple times that I went
I went to see Wicked and almost fell asleep because I couldn't make out what the hell most of the lyrics were. Fortunately the costumes and sets were interesting, so I had that at least.
posted by The corpse in the library at 4:42 PM on October 17, 2022
I went to see Wicked and almost fell asleep because I couldn't make out what the hell most of the lyrics were. Fortunately the costumes and sets were interesting, so I had that at least.
posted by The corpse in the library at 4:42 PM on October 17, 2022
Patti Lupone said during War Paint, in 2017, that it would be her last Broadway musical. That was a much more demanding (and less rewarding) role. She was struggling with pain for the end of the run, and it had to close early so she could get hip replacement surgery. I think she basically meant what she said at the time: that she was finished with that type of demanding Broadway role.
Her Company role made sense as an exception: a show-stealing role but with one big solo number and lots of time offstage. It was also an iconic role she'd played before. If she does come back to Broadway, which she could, I'd expect it to be for other roles with one or two really big moments. Or something like the Encores production of Pal Joey (clip from their archives here), which was a staged reading with a very short run.
In the meantime I think she will continue to do more concerts and cabarets. In 2012, the NYT said that she "generates more raw excitement than any other performer on the Broadway and cabaret axis, with the possible exception of Liza Minnelli." My sense is that this is still true. She's already booked for fifteen shows at 54 Below this winter, and she could do a lot more concerts if she wanted to.
She's done plenty of TV and film, and will likely do more. She's appearing in the upcoming American Horror Story season. Apparently Ryan Murphy reached out to her (and then wrote her a part in Hollywood) after seeing her appear on Pose, where she sang I'm Still Here. That's exactly the type of song I'd expect her to return to Broadway to sing if the timing worked out.
posted by earth by april at 4:45 PM on October 17, 2022 [3 favorites]
Her Company role made sense as an exception: a show-stealing role but with one big solo number and lots of time offstage. It was also an iconic role she'd played before. If she does come back to Broadway, which she could, I'd expect it to be for other roles with one or two really big moments. Or something like the Encores production of Pal Joey (clip from their archives here), which was a staged reading with a very short run.
In the meantime I think she will continue to do more concerts and cabarets. In 2012, the NYT said that she "generates more raw excitement than any other performer on the Broadway and cabaret axis, with the possible exception of Liza Minnelli." My sense is that this is still true. She's already booked for fifteen shows at 54 Below this winter, and she could do a lot more concerts if she wanted to.
She's done plenty of TV and film, and will likely do more. She's appearing in the upcoming American Horror Story season. Apparently Ryan Murphy reached out to her (and then wrote her a part in Hollywood) after seeing her appear on Pose, where she sang I'm Still Here. That's exactly the type of song I'd expect her to return to Broadway to sing if the timing worked out.
posted by earth by april at 4:45 PM on October 17, 2022 [3 favorites]
More people should use assistive tech!!
I took my wife to "Fiddler on the Roof" a few years ago. She had never seen it, but I know all the songs by heart from being a bit part of a high school production when I was in third grade.
We were waaaaay up in the rafters and I didn't care because I knew what was going on, but my wife hated it since she couldn't hear or see anything. I felt bad because she was bored and annoyed, but also because she missed the experience of a great story being performed right in front of her.
posted by wenestvedt at 5:03 PM on October 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
I took my wife to "Fiddler on the Roof" a few years ago. She had never seen it, but I know all the songs by heart from being a bit part of a high school production when I was in third grade.
We were waaaaay up in the rafters and I didn't care because I knew what was going on, but my wife hated it since she couldn't hear or see anything. I felt bad because she was bored and annoyed, but also because she missed the experience of a great story being performed right in front of her.
posted by wenestvedt at 5:03 PM on October 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
This made me start thinking about what actors during the Ellizabethan era faced and led me to this fairly interesting piece published by the Folger Shakspeare Library which cites a book The Reasonable Audience: Theatre Etiquette, Behaviour Policing, and the Live Performance Experience.
Quoting here "Dr. Sedgman argues that theatre etiquette is bound up in sexist, racist, and ableist social norms, designed specifically to produce separations between elite and ‘mass’ audiences." I have not read this book but as a Broadway attendee it's hard to disagree with that take.
posted by rdnnyc at 5:17 PM on October 17, 2022 [7 favorites]
Quoting here "Dr. Sedgman argues that theatre etiquette is bound up in sexist, racist, and ableist social norms, designed specifically to produce separations between elite and ‘mass’ audiences." I have not read this book but as a Broadway attendee it's hard to disagree with that take.
posted by rdnnyc at 5:17 PM on October 17, 2022 [7 favorites]
This framing of things it seems to me is itself un-helpful drama. She didn't rage quit. She recently retired. This tweet is just saying she is retired now, so leave her out of it, let those still involved work it out.
But could she please do more appearances with Randy Rainbow? To quote the late Chris Farley, that was AWESOME.
posted by ocschwar at 6:19 PM on October 17, 2022
I recently saw Amy Shumer live and was very dismayed that her anti-phone policy was so strict that audience members were forced to put their phones in little bags that the ushers locked and that couldn't be opened until the show was over. I was at the show with my sister, who has a chronic medical condition and two small children who were home with a babysitter. Given that Amy Shumer is a) super-rich, b) has spoken extensively about her complicated medical issues, c) married to a neurodivergent person, and d) a parent to a small child, I found it pretty appalling that she required her audience to lock their phones away so that her material wouldn't be leaked. It felt super ableist and icky. I get that sometimes these are venue policies, but in this case we go to this venue often and know some of the ushers and they told us this was "dictated by the performer." Broadway shows I can understand the no-phone policy, but rich comedians being this precious about the "exclusivity" of their live performances really rubs me the wrong way.
*I did still enjoy her show, even though I was grumpy about it.
posted by sleepingwithcats at 6:37 PM on October 17, 2022 [3 favorites]
*I did still enjoy her show, even though I was grumpy about it.
posted by sleepingwithcats at 6:37 PM on October 17, 2022 [3 favorites]
Does anybody know what captioning device or technology this might have been? Are we at the point where a built-in phone mic feeding a remote human or AI caption service yields something useful?
At the start of the pandemic, EMTs quickly learned that they could use voice recognition apps on their phones to help patients while keeping their face masks on. The state of the art is that good.
posted by ocschwar at 6:42 PM on October 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
As someone who currently works in theatre as a designer and an educator, there's a really simple way to minimise the 'disruption' of incidents like this: build your work as accessible from the first design meetings.
It's a a no-brainer.
posted by prismatic7 at 6:58 PM on October 17, 2022 [44 favorites]
It's a a no-brainer.
- Almost every theatre has a projection system now - video is a constant requirement in shows. You are almost certain to have a QLab licence on site or rented for the production period. You have access to the script. You can do sub- or surtitling.
- If you can't do titles for some reason, such as not having a projection system or a specific clause in your licensing of the text that precludes reproduction of the text (if this is the case, never work with that agency again), then set aside budget for sign language interpreters. There are many, many talented, theatre-aware, theatre-trained sign interpreters who can do this.
- Offer Audio Described performances for people with low vision or sight impairment.
- Ensure you have a hearing aid loop or telecoil system - these have been around for decades! You can either mic the space to capture the room sound, or send from the audio desk
- Offer Relaxed Sensory Performances where the sensory elements of the production are pulled back to allow people who find strong stimuli triggering, overwhelming, or difficult. If you are doing theatre for young people you should be offering this as an option anyway!
- Always consider sightlines, venue access, and seating arrangements for wheelchair users. In so many venues this is an afterthought if it is done at all
posted by prismatic7 at 6:58 PM on October 17, 2022 [44 favorites]
Not having an equity card isn't going to stop Patti Lupone from doing a show if she ever feels like it. She can't go to equity auditions but when was the last time she auditioned? You don't need an equity card to work an equity contract - working equity contracts is one way you get the card. Giving up her card lets her work non-equity tours which is a whole other drama.
Speaking as a former member of Actors' Equity - this isn't true. Not having an Equity membership doesn't just block you from the auditions - it blocks you from appearing in Equity contract shows altogether. There are venues which are non-Equity, but they are few and far between. Actors' Equity does not allow non-Equity shows, except in the case of "showcase" code productions (which are the off-off-Broadway stuff).
When I go to a show I'm too busy looking at the stage to notice what other people are doing.
Don't be obtuse.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:20 PM on October 17, 2022 [8 favorites]
Speaking as a former member of Actors' Equity - this isn't true. Not having an Equity membership doesn't just block you from the auditions - it blocks you from appearing in Equity contract shows altogether. There are venues which are non-Equity, but they are few and far between. Actors' Equity does not allow non-Equity shows, except in the case of "showcase" code productions (which are the off-off-Broadway stuff).
When I go to a show I'm too busy looking at the stage to notice what other people are doing.
Don't be obtuse.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:20 PM on October 17, 2022 [8 favorites]
If I was at a show and an actor stopped to hector someone in the audience who wasn't interfering with my enjoyment of the performance, I'd be demanding my money back.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:20 PM on October 17, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:20 PM on October 17, 2022 [3 favorites]
When I went to the Daniel Craig/Ruth Negga Macbeth the people behind me would. not. shut. the. fuck. up. throughout the entire performance and the usher I spoke to at intermission refused to do anything.
posted by brujita at 10:32 PM on October 17, 2022
posted by brujita at 10:32 PM on October 17, 2022
Bootlegging for live music performance is much more pervasive than bootlegging for live theater, and it's yet to stop people from going to shows. Many artists even allow it outright!
Now, there's relevant differences between the two forms of performance - notably that theater (usually) involves a level of consistency that the best live music performers generally avoid. But that said I think there's more in common than not, especially for musicals, so I have a difficult time crediting theories that bootlegging has the potential to doom Broadway.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 10:38 PM on October 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
Now, there's relevant differences between the two forms of performance - notably that theater (usually) involves a level of consistency that the best live music performers generally avoid. But that said I think there's more in common than not, especially for musicals, so I have a difficult time crediting theories that bootlegging has the potential to doom Broadway.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 10:38 PM on October 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
I always point the finger at the Japanese theatre industry, which runs on short shows (like a month is a big run, four months of Tokyo + Osaka + national tour is massive) and regularly puts out DVDs of the more popular ones because the runs are short enough that the fairly affordable tickets are literally distributed through lottery and the most popular shows get National Theater-like cinema retransmissions, sometimes including cinemas in other countries. They've been doing it since the 90s and the European continental industry is starting to follow suit over the last two decades, with a fairly sizeable repertoire. I'm not the only person who went to see two of the Elisabeth revivals plus the Budapest version um, four times, on the strength of the Vienna 2005 DVD, so more than anecdotally they're great on getting people hooked on shows and performers. Broadway needs to see these numbers and take note.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 12:45 AM on October 18, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by I claim sanctuary at 12:45 AM on October 18, 2022 [5 favorites]
Broadway probably does see those numbers - but it is also taking note of the difference between the Japanese theater system and the US system. Same with the British theater system, which regularly tapes its own productions and offers them on a streaming app even.
The difference is that the governments of the UK and Japan offer a fuck of a lot more financial support to the arts than does the US. The UK for certain has several grants that can support its theaters; with Broadway, like with the majority of arts institutions in the US, government grants are a pittance so they're pretty much on their own, and they gotta hustle to bring in the customers.
I have a difficult time crediting theories that bootlegging has the potential to doom Broadway.
*shrug* Just reporting what Actors' Equity says themself.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:46 AM on October 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
The difference is that the governments of the UK and Japan offer a fuck of a lot more financial support to the arts than does the US. The UK for certain has several grants that can support its theaters; with Broadway, like with the majority of arts institutions in the US, government grants are a pittance so they're pretty much on their own, and they gotta hustle to bring in the customers.
I have a difficult time crediting theories that bootlegging has the potential to doom Broadway.
*shrug* Just reporting what Actors' Equity says themself.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:46 AM on October 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
"When I go to a show I'm too busy looking at the stage to notice what other people are doing."
When I'm in a dark house and there's a small bright light off to the side somewhere, it involuntarily drags my focus away. If it doesn't do the same thing to you, you should probably count yourself lucky.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 6:31 AM on October 18, 2022 [17 favorites]
When I'm in a dark house and there's a small bright light off to the side somewhere, it involuntarily drags my focus away. If it doesn't do the same thing to you, you should probably count yourself lucky.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 6:31 AM on October 18, 2022 [17 favorites]
sleepingwithcats: Burner phone.
For any venue or environment I expect to be deprived of a phone I just bring my old one*. It's all set up with what I need, so its functional and that is what I surrender.
*I know that's not always an option, but I buy and hold iPhones for at least 4 years, so there's they are of limited resale/trade in value.
posted by zenon at 7:22 AM on October 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
For any venue or environment I expect to be deprived of a phone I just bring my old one*. It's all set up with what I need, so its functional and that is what I surrender.
*I know that's not always an option, but I buy and hold iPhones for at least 4 years, so there's they are of limited resale/trade in value.
posted by zenon at 7:22 AM on October 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
When I went to the Daniel Craig/Ruth Negga Macbeth the people behind me would. not. shut. the. fuck. up. throughout the entire performance and the usher I spoke to at intermission refused to do anything.
I go to a lot of theater, and this is the norm, in my experience. Every time poor theater behavior comes up, people say ushers deal with bad behavior, and that's just not true. I can understand why--being an usher in a big Broadway theater is a hard job, and addressing problematic behavior is itself disruptive. But when people are allowed to talk and be on their phones, I can understand why actors get frustrated and act out from the stage.
The Hadestown incident was awful, but 90% of the blame lies with the theater for not educating the cast about accessibility devices and theaters' pervasive failure to do anything about people using their phones during the show.
posted by Mavri at 8:31 AM on October 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
I go to a lot of theater, and this is the norm, in my experience. Every time poor theater behavior comes up, people say ushers deal with bad behavior, and that's just not true. I can understand why--being an usher in a big Broadway theater is a hard job, and addressing problematic behavior is itself disruptive. But when people are allowed to talk and be on their phones, I can understand why actors get frustrated and act out from the stage.
The Hadestown incident was awful, but 90% of the blame lies with the theater for not educating the cast about accessibility devices and theaters' pervasive failure to do anything about people using their phones during the show.
posted by Mavri at 8:31 AM on October 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
My thoughts on Broadway bootlegs are... conflicted, at best, but I have to say the baseball analogy is a bad one. There are about 160 games played by each baseball team every season -- and each of these games is different from the others in almost every way, which means each "performance" is unique. Plenty of people have season tickets to a team's games and attend all of them; many people don't have season tickets but go to multiple games, some people go to a few games a year.
A Broadway show plays eight performances a week -- about 420 performances a year -- of the exact same thing*. In order to recoup costs it needs as many different audience members as possible to pay to see it (there are a few people who might go see the same show multiple times, but in the grand scheme of Broadway audiences they are a distinct minority). Nobody sees The Book of Mormon 160 times a year, let alone 420 times.
(*yes I know sometimes there's a swing or an understudy which makes it a different show from previous nights, but you all know what I mean)
posted by tzikeh at 8:55 AM on October 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
A Broadway show plays eight performances a week -- about 420 performances a year -- of the exact same thing*. In order to recoup costs it needs as many different audience members as possible to pay to see it (there are a few people who might go see the same show multiple times, but in the grand scheme of Broadway audiences they are a distinct minority). Nobody sees The Book of Mormon 160 times a year, let alone 420 times.
(*yes I know sometimes there's a swing or an understudy which makes it a different show from previous nights, but you all know what I mean)
posted by tzikeh at 8:55 AM on October 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
In the digital age, Broadway remains inaccessible
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:12 AM on October 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:12 AM on October 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
But I mean have you seen Hadestown? There's A LOT going on on the stage, every second of it. Not to mention the seats are basically stacked vertically. It's really not easy to see the rest of the audience in there.
posted by bleep at 11:22 AM on October 18, 2022
posted by bleep at 11:22 AM on October 18, 2022
There's A LOT going on on the stage, every second of it. Not to mention the seats are basically stacked vertically. It's really not easy to see the rest of the audience in there.
You do realize that you are defending the rights of people to be selfish, yeah?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:28 AM on October 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
You do realize that you are defending the rights of people to be selfish, yeah?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:28 AM on October 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
It's selfish to disrupt the show. It's not selfish to not disrupt the show.
posted by bleep at 11:53 AM on October 18, 2022
posted by bleep at 11:53 AM on October 18, 2022
Can we please, again, stop using the term "flyover country?" There are better, less offensive ways to talk about parts of the United States that aren't large cities. In this particular case: "smaller cities that don't get off-Broadway runs," "locations that don't have access to live Broadway theatre," and "rural areas that don't have theaters for stage plays" are just a few.
Because when you say "flyover country" it really, really, feels like you mean, "those uneducated rubes out in the sticks." So just don't say it.
posted by cooker girl at 12:17 PM on October 18, 2022 [7 favorites]
Because when you say "flyover country" it really, really, feels like you mean, "those uneducated rubes out in the sticks." So just don't say it.
posted by cooker girl at 12:17 PM on October 18, 2022 [7 favorites]
It's selfish to disrupt the show. It's not selfish to not disrupt the show.
Exactly.
Which is why people shouldn't be texting during the show, because the light from their phone disrupts the show for their neighbors. QED.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:37 PM on October 18, 2022 [5 favorites]
Exactly.
Which is why people shouldn't be texting during the show, because the light from their phone disrupts the show for their neighbors. QED.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:37 PM on October 18, 2022 [5 favorites]
If I was at a show and an actor stopped to hector someone in the audience who wasn't interfering with my enjoyment of the performance, I'd be demanding my money back.
Would you do the same if an actor flubbed their line? Or a piece of stage scenery toppled over? Or someone missed their queue?
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:54 PM on October 18, 2022
Would you do the same if an actor flubbed their line? Or a piece of stage scenery toppled over? Or someone missed their queue?
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:54 PM on October 18, 2022
Mod note: a few derails deleted. Let’s please keep things on track, thanks!
posted by travelingthyme (staff) at 5:12 PM on October 18, 2022
posted by travelingthyme (staff) at 5:12 PM on October 18, 2022
It has been my impression that the Met Live which is often shown at regular theatres but for higher-than-average prices and the UK's National Theatre, which is sometimes shown along with the Met live broadcases (and perhaps had a deal with them for a while?) both do well. It's not clear to me why various Broadway shows couldn't also bring in three-camera crews to also film major shows. It would certainly expand access, and help nurture interest in a new generation of potential theatre-goers.
For the cost of a Broadway ticket, I would be angrier at a performer stopping a show to castigate an audience member than I would be at the audience member. The actor should know better than to burst through the fourth wall like that.
———
I met a Broadway producer recently who had just accepted a prestigious position in a major regional theatre because, he said, Broadway is so locked up by a small cabal of old-timers, it's hard to do anything outside of a certain range of production. So maybe the lack of access to filmed performance outside bootleg copies is partly an issue of theatre owners who refuse to innovate!?
posted by Violet Blue at 7:17 PM on October 18, 2022 [4 favorites]
For the cost of a Broadway ticket, I would be angrier at a performer stopping a show to castigate an audience member than I would be at the audience member. The actor should know better than to burst through the fourth wall like that.
———
I met a Broadway producer recently who had just accepted a prestigious position in a major regional theatre because, he said, Broadway is so locked up by a small cabal of old-timers, it's hard to do anything outside of a certain range of production. So maybe the lack of access to filmed performance outside bootleg copies is partly an issue of theatre owners who refuse to innovate!?
posted by Violet Blue at 7:17 PM on October 18, 2022 [4 favorites]
Does anybody know what captioning device or technology this might have been?
hovey, the Playbill link in the post has "Though it is unclear which specific captioning device Coleman was using, it is likely that it was visually similar to a smartphone or an actual smartphone. A system launched by GalaPro in 2018 that has since been adopted across Broadway and at major touring and regional houses across the country brings accessibility technology—including captions and audio descriptions—to audience members' own devices, with mandatory settings in place that minimize screen light that could be distracting to fellow audience members. It is likely that White incorrectly thought Coleman was illegally filming the performance using her smartphone."
Besides the light-minimizing bit, the GalaPro app also offers multilingual translations, simultaneous dubbing, audio description, and has a film database.
posted by Iris Gambol at 7:54 PM on October 18, 2022
hovey, the Playbill link in the post has "Though it is unclear which specific captioning device Coleman was using, it is likely that it was visually similar to a smartphone or an actual smartphone. A system launched by GalaPro in 2018 that has since been adopted across Broadway and at major touring and regional houses across the country brings accessibility technology—including captions and audio descriptions—to audience members' own devices, with mandatory settings in place that minimize screen light that could be distracting to fellow audience members. It is likely that White incorrectly thought Coleman was illegally filming the performance using her smartphone."
Besides the light-minimizing bit, the GalaPro app also offers multilingual translations, simultaneous dubbing, audio description, and has a film database.
posted by Iris Gambol at 7:54 PM on October 18, 2022
FYI: All broadway shows are already recorded for archival purposes but it is for in person use via New York Public Libraries. I have no idea how fussy they are about 'researcher' classification.
posted by srboisvert at 6:32 AM on October 19, 2022
posted by srboisvert at 6:32 AM on October 19, 2022
I have no idea how fussy they are about 'researcher' classification.
I used that branch's clippings archive for years, and my only qualification was that I walked in and had a library card. Someone else who was affiliated with one of our theaters regularly browsed in their archives just for fun.
Admittedly this does limit the in-person visits to New York library card holders, but for virtual screenings it may be worth speaking to your own local library about whether there's any kind of reciprocal thing.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:47 AM on October 19, 2022
I used that branch's clippings archive for years, and my only qualification was that I walked in and had a library card. Someone else who was affiliated with one of our theaters regularly browsed in their archives just for fun.
Admittedly this does limit the in-person visits to New York library card holders, but for virtual screenings it may be worth speaking to your own local library about whether there's any kind of reciprocal thing.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:47 AM on October 19, 2022
Okay.
PEOPLE Magazine just published an interview with LuPone in which she explains why she actually gave up her membership - she claims that AEA doesn't "support actors at all," adding: "They're just not good. And I just didn't want to give them any more money."
Speaking as a ten-year member of AEA, who was saved from a REALLY exploitative situation thanks to their persistence -
Patti LuPone, go fuck yourself sideways with a boxcar.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:28 AM on October 19, 2022 [5 favorites]
PEOPLE Magazine just published an interview with LuPone in which she explains why she actually gave up her membership - she claims that AEA doesn't "support actors at all," adding: "They're just not good. And I just didn't want to give them any more money."
Speaking as a ten-year member of AEA, who was saved from a REALLY exploitative situation thanks to their persistence -
Patti LuPone, go fuck yourself sideways with a boxcar.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:28 AM on October 19, 2022 [5 favorites]
Dear Patti: I feel like if you have that level of complaint, perhaps you should be a bit more specific? With examples? If something's really wrong, then we need to know. Otherwise it kinda sounds like you're in a huff about...something? All I got out of this was "they don't know who I am basically," which makes me think she talked to some noob on the phone who didn't recognize her?
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:35 AM on October 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:35 AM on October 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
cooker girl: I hear you. I'm sorry. If it helps, which maybe it doesn't, I used it because I am from just such a place -- from Mississippi, in fact, doubly damned -- and I have given a lot of thought to the way that being far outside sources of pop culture shaped me as a person and writer. I make these jokes because I know what it's like. But it's not worth being hurtful here.
posted by Countess Elena at 12:01 PM on October 19, 2022
posted by Countess Elena at 12:01 PM on October 19, 2022
From the New York Times article on this:
Her departure came after a change in union rules that eliminated a cap on dues collected from high-earning performers. She had expressed concern about the change and the way it was communicated, according to people familiar with the thought process behind her resignation.
This change in rules was democratically decided by an AEA member vote. It specifically removed a cap that exempted wages over $300,000 from working dues (2.5%). When she says "I just didn't want to give them any more money," that's what she means. Extremely yikes.
posted by earth by april at 5:22 PM on October 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
Her departure came after a change in union rules that eliminated a cap on dues collected from high-earning performers. She had expressed concern about the change and the way it was communicated, according to people familiar with the thought process behind her resignation.
This change in rules was democratically decided by an AEA member vote. It specifically removed a cap that exempted wages over $300,000 from working dues (2.5%). When she says "I just didn't want to give them any more money," that's what she means. Extremely yikes.
posted by earth by april at 5:22 PM on October 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
Re: the use of electronics in the theater, I just remembered an incident I had totally forgotten. I had to do something with my insulin pump in the cinema, and the person behind me scolded me for what they thought was me using a mobile phone during the movie. I don't blame them for the misunderstanding; all they could perceive was a small glowing screen and a couple of soft beeps (I had the volume turned down to minimum, but since I can't completely trust my eyesight or the sensation in my fingers to know that I've pressed the correct sequence of buttons, completely muting it would have been a bit of a problem. And once I whispered to them what I was doing, and that it would only take a few more seconds, they were perfectly OK with it. So, I guess what I'm saying is that these misunderstandings can happen, but it's also possible to resolve them with minimal conflict.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 5:57 PM on October 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 5:57 PM on October 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
« Older "neat, distinct eras instead of long, messy... | The algorithm used to raise our rent Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by 2N2222 at 11:12 AM on October 17, 2022 [62 favorites]