Does this mean the lettuce wins? Truss resigns.
October 20, 2022 6:16 AM Subscribe
The bookies have Rishi Sunak as the favourite. Boris Johnson on 14 to 1.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 6:20 AM on October 20, 2022
posted by TheophileEscargot at 6:20 AM on October 20, 2022
I saw this and just said "WWWWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT????" so loud people from two offices down the hall called to ask what was going on.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:21 AM on October 20, 2022 [17 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:21 AM on October 20, 2022 [17 favorites]
I’d say “about time,” but it was past time when she assumed office. Apparently, having run the ship of state aground, the Tories are discovering that governing is actually hard and bullshit only takes you so far.
posted by GenjiandProust at 6:21 AM on October 20, 2022 [40 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 6:21 AM on October 20, 2022 [40 favorites]
4.5 Scaramucci's. That will be a tough one to beat.
posted by night_train at 6:26 AM on October 20, 2022 [84 favorites]
posted by night_train at 6:26 AM on October 20, 2022 [84 favorites]
Future pub quiz question:
"What year saw 4 Chancellors, 3 Home Secretaries, 2 Monarchs, 3 Prime Ministers?"
Though we might have to revise some of the numbers as there's still more than 2 months left...
posted by couch at 6:26 AM on October 20, 2022 [110 favorites]
"What year saw 4 Chancellors, 3 Home Secretaries, 2 Monarchs, 3 Prime Ministers?"
Though we might have to revise some of the numbers as there's still more than 2 months left...
posted by couch at 6:26 AM on October 20, 2022 [110 favorites]
I'm envious! at least your complete and utter Muppet resigned. Here in Ontario our premier is responsible for the deaths of thousands during the lockdown era, and got re-elected. Wishing all my UK comrades and the rest of us better luck next time.
posted by LegallyBread at 6:27 AM on October 20, 2022 [25 favorites]
posted by LegallyBread at 6:27 AM on October 20, 2022 [25 favorites]
Other links. Spectator, Stop blaming Tory membership:
A running theme in the anti-Truss camp is the sense that this is, when you get down to it, the membership’s fault. They voted for Truss over Rishi Sunak, and lo and behold: Truss imploded. Having delivered one body blow to the party, they can’t be trusted to vote again; the rules should be changed so that MPs and MPs alone choose their leader, avoiding any repeat of the last month’s debacle.New Statesman, History shows why the Tories have become addicted to regicide:
This narrative lets MPs off the hook too easily. Truss, Mordaunt, Tugendhat, Zahawi, and Braverman all pledged tax cuts. Only Kemi Badenoch and Rishi Sunak ran on platforms of fiscal discipline. The latter managed to scrape up 128 MPs between them in the first round of voting. By the time Sunak reached the final three with Truss and Mordaunt, he had added an extra nine MPs to this total. The demand in the parliamentary party to do something about the tax burden was clearly there.
To the extent that the leadership vote caused problems, it was through a simpler mechanism. MPs were split. Whoever the members chose, they would only have had the support of about a third of the parliamentary party. The rest would have backed a different candidate, feeling no sense of obligation to a leader who did not help them secure their seat. These are MPs who have spent the last six years marinating in an environment where plotting against the leader is the norm rather than the exception. Whoever stepped into the role – Sunak, Truss or even Mordaunt – was due for a leadership crisis at some point.
If all this is sounding familiar, perhaps that’s because it’s an extreme example of a surprisingly common pattern. A long period of dynastic or economic stability comes to an end; those in the lower ranks of politics discover, to their surprise, that they can oust a leader and, unable to achieve much else, they do so, over and over again.posted by TheophileEscargot at 6:28 AM on October 20, 2022 [31 favorites]
A gem from twitter
LETTUCE REJOICE!
posted by lalochezia at 6:29 AM on October 20, 2022 [41 favorites]
LETTUCE REJOICE!
posted by lalochezia at 6:29 AM on October 20, 2022 [41 favorites]
The fellas in the speedrun Discord say there are a lot of interesting things going on. Truss took advantage of a couple of noclips people didn't realize were there, and utilized a couple of economics mechanics that the devs had apparently left in from the beta. They're predicting the next Conservative PM should be able to improve upon this time by at least a couple of hours now that they've seen her run tho
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 6:30 AM on October 20, 2022 [117 favorites]
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 6:30 AM on October 20, 2022 [117 favorites]
And still no general election being called.
"They'll lose at the next election" is pretty cold comfort staring down the barrel at two more years of this.
posted by slimepuppy at 6:33 AM on October 20, 2022 [22 favorites]
"They'll lose at the next election" is pretty cold comfort staring down the barrel at two more years of this.
posted by slimepuppy at 6:33 AM on October 20, 2022 [22 favorites]
Hey, at least the bottom of that barrel is getting a thorough scraping.
posted by flabdablet at 6:35 AM on October 20, 2022 [27 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 6:35 AM on October 20, 2022 [27 favorites]
I used to understand parliamentary procedure pretty well for an American but I stopped paying attention to British politics (no offense intended, I mostly stopped following American politics as well for obvious reasons) so... why isn't Labour calling for a vote of no confidence? I feel like this used to happen a lot more? I know the fixed-term Parliament act was repealed, so like... what's going on?
posted by rhymedirective at 6:36 AM on October 20, 2022
posted by rhymedirective at 6:36 AM on October 20, 2022
Take office, go to Ma'am's, kill Liz, sink the pound, u-turn, resign, back to Westminster, have a nice cold pint and wait for all this to blow over.
posted by Wrinkled Stumpskin at 6:37 AM on October 20, 2022 [85 favorites]
posted by Wrinkled Stumpskin at 6:37 AM on October 20, 2022 [85 favorites]
Breaking: The lettuce will make a speech to the nation at 18:00
posted by flabdablet at 6:39 AM on October 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 6:39 AM on October 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
I have to preface this with a strong Content Warning for extreme humour (it's Frankie Boyle), but the clip from The Last Leg back in August, when the Conservative Party leadership "contest" was in full swing is quite the something of relevance to watch today.
posted by Wordshore at 6:40 AM on October 20, 2022 [15 favorites]
posted by Wordshore at 6:40 AM on October 20, 2022 [15 favorites]
I'm a USian and most of my awareness of UK politics comes through the filters of seeing clips from British comedy chat shows on Youtube. So my initial reaction was to be gutted that Mock The Week finished putting its last-ever episode together before this happened, and The Last Leg won't be back for another month yet.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:41 AM on October 20, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:41 AM on October 20, 2022 [9 favorites]
why isn't Labour calling for a vote of no confidence?
Probably because Tory MPs would vote with the Government, as they don't want an election. So it would lose. You might still say that it needs to be done as a gesture, but Labour know they don't get too many goes at this. It's better to let the Tories attack each other - present an external threat and they'll band together.
posted by YoungStencil at 6:42 AM on October 20, 2022 [15 favorites]
Probably because Tory MPs would vote with the Government, as they don't want an election. So it would lose. You might still say that it needs to be done as a gesture, but Labour know they don't get too many goes at this. It's better to let the Tories attack each other - present an external threat and they'll band together.
posted by YoungStencil at 6:42 AM on October 20, 2022 [15 favorites]
the Tories are discovering that governing is actually hard and bullshit only takes you so far.
It got them twelve years to loot the UK, shatter its economy, and brutalize minoritized people, and even if they lost it today it's only a matter of time before they get another go at it. I'd say it's taken them where they want to go.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:47 AM on October 20, 2022 [46 favorites]
It got them twelve years to loot the UK, shatter its economy, and brutalize minoritized people, and even if they lost it today it's only a matter of time before they get another go at it. I'd say it's taken them where they want to go.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:47 AM on October 20, 2022 [46 favorites]
I'm trying to start a movement to get the nickname "premie primie" going, but all my coworkers are giving me weird looks
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 6:48 AM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 6:48 AM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
a major blow to sub visibility
posted by dis_integration at 6:48 AM on October 20, 2022 [20 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 6:48 AM on October 20, 2022 [20 favorites]
Spectator, Stop blaming Tory membership:
Reminder that the Spectator said there wasn't enough Islamophobia in the Tory Party.
Spectator should only be listened to to know what the Tories are briefing. As can see here - Tories trapped in a circular firing squad.
posted by litleozy at 6:51 AM on October 20, 2022 [14 favorites]
Reminder that the Spectator said there wasn't enough Islamophobia in the Tory Party.
Spectator should only be listened to to know what the Tories are briefing. As can see here - Tories trapped in a circular firing squad.
posted by litleozy at 6:51 AM on October 20, 2022 [14 favorites]
It's still dark here. I walked past our latest baby Cottontail just three feet away on the parking strip -- totally chill 'cause we're acquainted -- on my way to QFC and admired the waning crescent Moon high in the Eastern sky. Came back with a sack of vittles and sat for a spell in our Western courtyard looking up at Mars.
I checked my phone before I left. Truss was still Prime Minister as far as Google News knew. Came in just now and guess what? That lettuce rotted faster than the dead Morlock in The Time Machine. A song came to mind...
And just now NPR is reporting it...
posted by y2karl at 6:52 AM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
I checked my phone before I left. Truss was still Prime Minister as far as Google News knew. Came in just now and guess what? That lettuce rotted faster than the dead Morlock in The Time Machine. A song came to mind...
And just now NPR is reporting it...
posted by y2karl at 6:52 AM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
As an American I feel like this situation, and that in Italy, have really killed my early twenties naivete that the main problem with US politics was the winner take all, two party system. Multi-party parliamentary systems seem to be just as prone to dysfunction and minority rule.
Given that they seem totally unable to govern is there no way to remove the Tories from power?
posted by being_quiet at 6:53 AM on October 20, 2022 [9 favorites]
Given that they seem totally unable to govern is there no way to remove the Tories from power?
posted by being_quiet at 6:53 AM on October 20, 2022 [9 favorites]
Talk on Twitter that Johnson may run again
I despair.
posted by slimepuppy at 6:56 AM on October 20, 2022 [8 favorites]
I despair.
posted by slimepuppy at 6:56 AM on October 20, 2022 [8 favorites]
Take office, go to Ma'am's, kill Liz, sink the pound, u-turn, resign, back to Westminster, have a nice cold pint and wait for all this to blow over.
Similar hot take from Reddit:
Comes in
Kills the Queen
Tanks the economy
Leaves
I CAME IN LIKE A WRECKIIIIIIIIIIIIIING BALL
posted by fuse theorem at 6:56 AM on October 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
Similar hot take from Reddit:
Comes in
Kills the Queen
Tanks the economy
Leaves
I CAME IN LIKE A WRECKIIIIIIIIIIIIIING BALL
posted by fuse theorem at 6:56 AM on October 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
As an American I feel like this situation, and that in Italy, have really killed my early twenties naivete that the main problem with US politics was the winner take all, two party system.
We have a winner takes all two party system here too, though?
posted by Dysk at 6:57 AM on October 20, 2022 [22 favorites]
We have a winner takes all two party system here too, though?
posted by Dysk at 6:57 AM on October 20, 2022 [22 favorites]
Given that they seem totally unable to govern is there no way to remove the Tories from power?
Nope. Whoever is the next party leader will inherit a comfortable majority and so will be fit to be Prime Minister under the system as it stands. Unless enough Tory MPs have a rush of blood to the head, or discover a sense of decency, and vote against the govt in a vote of no confidence, they are here until the next election.
I think it is too early in Charles' reign for him to trigger a crisis by dissolving parliament without a vote of no confidence.
posted by YoungStencil at 7:00 AM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
Nope. Whoever is the next party leader will inherit a comfortable majority and so will be fit to be Prime Minister under the system as it stands. Unless enough Tory MPs have a rush of blood to the head, or discover a sense of decency, and vote against the govt in a vote of no confidence, they are here until the next election.
I think it is too early in Charles' reign for him to trigger a crisis by dissolving parliament without a vote of no confidence.
posted by YoungStencil at 7:00 AM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
How this is being reported on TV in Germany.
posted by Wordshore at 7:02 AM on October 20, 2022 [23 favorites]
posted by Wordshore at 7:02 AM on October 20, 2022 [23 favorites]
Utterly, utterly sick of this multiple clown-car pile up of a government now. It's just pathetic.
posted by tomsk at 7:16 AM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by tomsk at 7:16 AM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
It was my turn as Prime Minister this week.
I was woken up by the whips and given the ceremonial hi-viz and hard hat
Then driven straight to Downing Street to give a speech to the assorted Westminster hacks.
I said some nonsense about being here to serve all the people all the time
Then added "All the real people!" with a cheeky wink to the guy from GB News.
His thumbs up meant the world to me.
Once I got inside I turned the heating right up, left all the taps running
And ate every Viennetta in the freezer.
"Bill that to the taxpayer!" I chuckled to some weary civil servant
As I put the hard hat on his head, handed him the hi-viz jacket
And went next door to see who the chancellor was.
posted by dng at 7:18 AM on October 20, 2022 [28 favorites]
I was woken up by the whips and given the ceremonial hi-viz and hard hat
Then driven straight to Downing Street to give a speech to the assorted Westminster hacks.
I said some nonsense about being here to serve all the people all the time
Then added "All the real people!" with a cheeky wink to the guy from GB News.
His thumbs up meant the world to me.
Once I got inside I turned the heating right up, left all the taps running
And ate every Viennetta in the freezer.
"Bill that to the taxpayer!" I chuckled to some weary civil servant
As I put the hard hat on his head, handed him the hi-viz jacket
And went next door to see who the chancellor was.
posted by dng at 7:18 AM on October 20, 2022 [28 favorites]
Don't want to alarm anyone but we're rapidly heading towards one new prime minister per day.
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:22 AM on October 20, 2022 [13 favorites]
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:22 AM on October 20, 2022 [13 favorites]
As an American, a system where you don’t have to wait four years to swap bozos is really attractive. And as seen here, which particular set of bozos are running things really can make a difference.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:22 AM on October 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:22 AM on October 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
As an American, a system where you don’t have to wait four years to swap bozos is really attractive.
True, but the downside of the system (as this fellow American realized) is that only some of the people get to pick which bozo you swap to.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:24 AM on October 20, 2022 [15 favorites]
True, but the downside of the system (as this fellow American realized) is that only some of the people get to pick which bozo you swap to.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:24 AM on October 20, 2022 [15 favorites]
A couple of points of note:
1. Remember these people are 'professional' politicians who (purportedly) know what they are doing.
2. The economic and social damage being (and to be) enacted is and will be far reaching for the average 'Joe/Joeina/They' public. Reduction (if there is anything left) of public services, increase in taxes, austerity measures out the whazoo.
3. The Republicans are already taking notes on how they can adopt this role model (and are already enacting plans like this here.). America is sleepwalking into totalitarianism... vote (while you can)
posted by IndelibleUnderpants at 7:28 AM on October 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
1. Remember these people are 'professional' politicians who (purportedly) know what they are doing.
2. The economic and social damage being (and to be) enacted is and will be far reaching for the average 'Joe/Joeina/They' public. Reduction (if there is anything left) of public services, increase in taxes, austerity measures out the whazoo.
3. The Republicans are already taking notes on how they can adopt this role model (and are already enacting plans like this here.). America is sleepwalking into totalitarianism... vote (while you can)
posted by IndelibleUnderpants at 7:28 AM on October 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
At least Larry the Cat remains in residence.
posted by tafetta, darling! at 7:28 AM on October 20, 2022 [14 favorites]
posted by tafetta, darling! at 7:28 AM on October 20, 2022 [14 favorites]
What an absolute fucking shambles.
posted by essexjan at 7:29 AM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by essexjan at 7:29 AM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
The one good thing about the Liz Truss premiership was the fact that Boris didn't get to be PM when the Queen died. That's literally all I got, schadenfreude about a different bad person.
posted by terretu at 7:29 AM on October 20, 2022 [24 favorites]
posted by terretu at 7:29 AM on October 20, 2022 [24 favorites]
In the future everyone will be Prime Minister for 15 minutes
posted by stevis23 at 7:31 AM on October 20, 2022 [22 favorites]
posted by stevis23 at 7:31 AM on October 20, 2022 [22 favorites]
These were the people the Brexiteers wanted so desperately to hand absolute sovereignty to, because (democratic!) EU checks on their authority on any level were unacceptable.
posted by Dysk at 7:31 AM on October 20, 2022 [16 favorites]
posted by Dysk at 7:31 AM on October 20, 2022 [16 favorites]
Her book will be Out by Christmas. That's both the name of the book and its release date.
(stolen from a Podcast - possibly the excellent Oh God, What Now? Podcast)
posted by inflatablekiwi at 7:32 AM on October 20, 2022 [15 favorites]
(stolen from a Podcast - possibly the excellent Oh God, What Now? Podcast)
posted by inflatablekiwi at 7:32 AM on October 20, 2022 [15 favorites]
I think it is too early in Charles' reign for him to trigger a crisis by dissolving parliament without a vote of no confidence.
It sure looks like there's a crisis happening either way. If you wanted to establish the idea of a feckless new king you could hardly do better than to have him stand idly by while the elected government drives itself into ruin as he fails to exert any of his ceremonial power in an attempt to stop it.
posted by fedward at 7:32 AM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
It sure looks like there's a crisis happening either way. If you wanted to establish the idea of a feckless new king you could hardly do better than to have him stand idly by while the elected government drives itself into ruin as he fails to exert any of his ceremonial power in an attempt to stop it.
posted by fedward at 7:32 AM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
(stolen from a Podcast - possibly the excellent Oh God, What Now? Podcast)
I believe this was originally a Keir Starmer line, actually!
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 7:33 AM on October 20, 2022 [12 favorites]
I believe this was originally a Keir Starmer line, actually!
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 7:33 AM on October 20, 2022 [12 favorites]
@PhillipLawler1: Liz Truss's six week reign as PM also included 10 days off for national mourning and two weeks off for the conference season. She worked just 12 days as PM during her reign.
posted by Wordshore at 7:34 AM on October 20, 2022 [54 favorites]
posted by Wordshore at 7:34 AM on October 20, 2022 [54 favorites]
Liz Truss is now entitled to £115,000 per year for the rest of her life as "Public Duties Cost Allowance". To be fair, she looked stressed, they were a pretty gruelling 12 days work.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 7:38 AM on October 20, 2022 [22 favorites]
posted by TheophileEscargot at 7:38 AM on October 20, 2022 [22 favorites]
I'm disappointed to not see even one pun about Truss's failure as a load-carrying member.
posted by clawsoon at 7:40 AM on October 20, 2022 [82 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 7:40 AM on October 20, 2022 [82 favorites]
What an absolute fucking shambles.
An omnishambles.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:41 AM on October 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
An omnishambles.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:41 AM on October 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
In the future everyone will be Prime Minister for 15 minutes
And then 10 minutes. And then 3 minutes. and then 35 seconds. And then 2 seconds.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 7:41 AM on October 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
And then 10 minutes. And then 3 minutes. and then 35 seconds. And then 2 seconds.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 7:41 AM on October 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
I think it is too early in Charles' reign for him to trigger a crisis by dissolving parliament without a vote of no confidence.
Besides which, if he leaves this lot in there is a fighting chance he'll beat his Mother's record for the number of PM's during his reign
posted by inflatablekiwi at 7:41 AM on October 20, 2022 [21 favorites]
Besides which, if he leaves this lot in there is a fighting chance he'll beat his Mother's record for the number of PM's during his reign
posted by inflatablekiwi at 7:41 AM on October 20, 2022 [21 favorites]
GOD I love watching this empire eat itself. What a bunch of fucking maroons. HA HA HA
it's slightly less amusing for the millions of people getting kicked off a financial cliff as a result of the tory party's moral and intellectual inadequacy, but glad you're enjoying yourself
posted by inire at 7:42 AM on October 20, 2022 [74 favorites]
it's slightly less amusing for the millions of people getting kicked off a financial cliff as a result of the tory party's moral and intellectual inadequacy, but glad you're enjoying yourself
posted by inire at 7:42 AM on October 20, 2022 [74 favorites]
soon the only entity qualified to be PM will be Larry the cat, and only because he'll insist on leaving number 10 before immediately demanding back in, only to realize he'd really like to be let out again
posted by BungaDunga at 7:43 AM on October 20, 2022 [46 favorites]
posted by BungaDunga at 7:43 AM on October 20, 2022 [46 favorites]
She was install by neoliberal activists who told her to do a trickle down.
Again and again and again. They honestly only have one idea. Trickle down. Cut taxes, slash the budget.
IT DOESN'T FUCKING WORK. HOW MANY TIMES? HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES?
posted by adept256 at 7:43 AM on October 20, 2022 [37 favorites]
Again and again and again. They honestly only have one idea. Trickle down. Cut taxes, slash the budget.
IT DOESN'T FUCKING WORK. HOW MANY TIMES? HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES?
posted by adept256 at 7:43 AM on October 20, 2022 [37 favorites]
The directors of the party hired to continue the government after the other people had been sacked, wish it to be known that they have just been sacked.
The Parliament will be completed in an entirely different style at great expense and at the last minute.
posted by stevis23 at 7:46 AM on October 20, 2022 [24 favorites]
The Parliament will be completed in an entirely different style at great expense and at the last minute.
posted by stevis23 at 7:46 AM on October 20, 2022 [24 favorites]
Oh, honestly, I do feel bad for the everyday folk. But the only way out of this bullshit is through, eh?
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:46 AM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:46 AM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
A gem from twitter
LETTUCE REJOICE!
Seen elsewhere:
LETTUCE REJOICE!
Seen elsewhere:
Lettuce victoriousposted by NoxAeternum at 7:46 AM on October 20, 2022 [8 favorites]
Happy and glorious
Long to reign o'er us
God save the Greens!
IT DOESN'T FUCKING WORK.
It works for rich people, who convince just enough people to vote for it by pretending it'll work for them, too.
(Notably, here in the US the Republicans barely even bother to refute the decades of data that say it doesn't work; they just want to cut taxes for the rich as an article of faith, so they do it.)
posted by Gelatin at 7:48 AM on October 20, 2022 [10 favorites]
It works for rich people, who convince just enough people to vote for it by pretending it'll work for them, too.
(Notably, here in the US the Republicans barely even bother to refute the decades of data that say it doesn't work; they just want to cut taxes for the rich as an article of faith, so they do it.)
posted by Gelatin at 7:48 AM on October 20, 2022 [10 favorites]
IT DOESN'T FUCKING WORK. HOW MANY TIMES? HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES?
It wasn't about working, it was about doing a bustout while the Tories have the reins.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:48 AM on October 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
It wasn't about working, it was about doing a bustout while the Tories have the reins.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:48 AM on October 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
In the future everyone will be Prime Minister for 15 minutes
Obligatory Pacific Rim meme.
posted by cendawanita at 7:49 AM on October 20, 2022 [10 favorites]
Obligatory Pacific Rim meme.
posted by cendawanita at 7:49 AM on October 20, 2022 [10 favorites]
I think it is too early in Charles' reign for him to trigger a crisis by dissolving parliament without a vote of no confidence.
On-brand for monarchs named Charles, though.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 7:52 AM on October 20, 2022 [13 favorites]
On-brand for monarchs named Charles, though.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 7:52 AM on October 20, 2022 [13 favorites]
It works for rich people
This particular escapade didn't even particularly work for rich people, which I assume is why she's been booted. The markets threw a wobbly. The whole cut-taxes thing went from a totally rational idea (for the rich) and turned into a free-floating ideology of its own, with Truss and her fellow-travelers and benefactors seeming to actually believe in it, consequences to themselves be damned.
posted by BungaDunga at 7:53 AM on October 20, 2022 [15 favorites]
This particular escapade didn't even particularly work for rich people, which I assume is why she's been booted. The markets threw a wobbly. The whole cut-taxes thing went from a totally rational idea (for the rich) and turned into a free-floating ideology of its own, with Truss and her fellow-travelers and benefactors seeming to actually believe in it, consequences to themselves be damned.
posted by BungaDunga at 7:53 AM on October 20, 2022 [15 favorites]
>As an American, a system where you don’t have to wait four years to swap bozos is really attractive.
True, but the downside of the system (as this fellow American realized) is that only some of the people get to pick which bozo you swap to.
You’re definitely not going to get any huge ideological shifts, but at least rank incompetence can be addressed.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:55 AM on October 20, 2022
True, but the downside of the system (as this fellow American realized) is that only some of the people get to pick which bozo you swap to.
You’re definitely not going to get any huge ideological shifts, but at least rank incompetence can be addressed.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:55 AM on October 20, 2022
It wasn't about working, it was about doing a bustout while the Tories have the reins.
kwarteng and truss genuinely believe in this shit. stupidity trumping venality. plus, if you're properly wealthy, headline tax rates don't mean much.
posted by inire at 7:58 AM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
kwarteng and truss genuinely believe in this shit. stupidity trumping venality. plus, if you're properly wealthy, headline tax rates don't mean much.
posted by inire at 7:58 AM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
You’re definitely not going to get any huge ideological shifts, but at least rank incompetence can be addressed.
Arguably, the move from the populist Johnson to the neolib robot Truss was a pretty big ideological shift. And addressing Johnson's rank incompetence got us Truss, so...
posted by Dysk at 7:59 AM on October 20, 2022
Arguably, the move from the populist Johnson to the neolib robot Truss was a pretty big ideological shift. And addressing Johnson's rank incompetence got us Truss, so...
posted by Dysk at 7:59 AM on October 20, 2022
Jacob Rees-Mogg has tendered his resignation.
posted by essexjan at 7:59 AM on October 20, 2022 [18 favorites]
posted by essexjan at 7:59 AM on October 20, 2022 [18 favorites]
Is it true that Liz Truss is the only Prime minister (since 1963) not to have an episode of Doctor Who air during their tenure?
(assuming we include the TV movie)
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 8:06 AM on October 20, 2022 [9 favorites]
(assuming we include the TV movie)
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 8:06 AM on October 20, 2022 [9 favorites]
Wordshore: the clip from The Last Leg back in August, when the Conservative Party leadership "contest" was in full swing is quite the something of relevance to watch today.
The least comfortable laugh he got was in response to his joke about hoping for someone who'd start a nuclear war and put us all out of our misery. I'm guessing half the audience was thinking, "Oh shit, with the crazy road we're doing down, that's suddenly not out of the question..."
posted by clawsoon at 8:06 AM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
The least comfortable laugh he got was in response to his joke about hoping for someone who'd start a nuclear war and put us all out of our misery. I'm guessing half the audience was thinking, "Oh shit, with the crazy road we're doing down, that's suddenly not out of the question..."
posted by clawsoon at 8:06 AM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Now they don't have to worry about the next election, I imagine the looting and vandalism will be completely unrestrained. What are the consequences? They become less popular?
Watch - Labor will be in power for five minutes before the time-bombs and landmines they laid start going off and they howl look at the mess you made!
posted by adept256 at 8:09 AM on October 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
Watch - Labor will be in power for five minutes before the time-bombs and landmines they laid start going off and they howl look at the mess you made!
posted by adept256 at 8:09 AM on October 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
Is it true that Liz Truss is the only Prime minister (since 1963) not to have an episode of Doctor Who air during their tenure?
Assuming they don't pick a new leader until next week, she'll technically be in office for the special on Sunday.
posted by BungaDunga at 8:09 AM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
Assuming they don't pick a new leader until next week, she'll technically be in office for the special on Sunday.
posted by BungaDunga at 8:09 AM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
GOD I love watching this empire eat itself. What a bunch of fucking maroons. HA HA HA
it's slightly less amusing for the millions of people getting kicked off a financial cliff as a result of the tory party's moral and intellectual inadequacy, but glad you're enjoying yourself
Yeah, those of us trapped in this shitstorm freezing, starving, dying of covid and poverty and medical neglect, having our human rights stripped back and the country we had the unforgivable bad judgement to be born in torched around us are so happy you feel good about it, sean. Have fun.
posted by BlueNorther at 8:11 AM on October 20, 2022 [37 favorites]
it's slightly less amusing for the millions of people getting kicked off a financial cliff as a result of the tory party's moral and intellectual inadequacy, but glad you're enjoying yourself
Yeah, those of us trapped in this shitstorm freezing, starving, dying of covid and poverty and medical neglect, having our human rights stripped back and the country we had the unforgivable bad judgement to be born in torched around us are so happy you feel good about it, sean. Have fun.
posted by BlueNorther at 8:11 AM on October 20, 2022 [37 favorites]
Good riddance. But this will continue, because even someone much brighter than Truss can not undo all the terrible things the Tories have done in the last decade. And on top of that, there are serious things like the climate to deal with.
posted by mumimor at 8:12 AM on October 20, 2022
posted by mumimor at 8:12 AM on October 20, 2022
The one good thing about the Liz Truss premiership was the fact that Boris didn't get to be PM when the Queen died.
On the other hand, Lizz Truss was PM when the queen died.
posted by Pendragon at 8:13 AM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
On the other hand, Lizz Truss was PM when the queen died.
posted by Pendragon at 8:13 AM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
Jacob Rees-Mogg has tendered his resignation.
HOLY MOTHER OF GOD that seriously needed to have a "sarcasm" tag on it....
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:13 AM on October 20, 2022 [23 favorites]
HOLY MOTHER OF GOD that seriously needed to have a "sarcasm" tag on it....
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:13 AM on October 20, 2022 [23 favorites]
GOD I love watching this empire eat itself. What a bunch of fucking maroons. HA HA HA
Friendly reminder that using that term as an insult is (inadvertent or not) is offensive as hell.
posted by Dysk at 8:16 AM on October 20, 2022 [30 favorites]
Friendly reminder that using that term as an insult is (inadvertent or not) is offensive as hell.
posted by Dysk at 8:16 AM on October 20, 2022 [30 favorites]
oh hell i had no idea, thanks for that Dysk
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:26 AM on October 20, 2022 [15 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:26 AM on October 20, 2022 [15 favorites]
My reaction to the news this last six weeks is neatly summed up by Charlie Brooker.
Now to see what horror show the Tories can inflict on us next - they've managed to win the Worst Prime Minister in History award for each of the last four, they're really going to have to work at it to top Truss.
My money is on a run-off between Suella "I dream of sending refugees to Rwanda" Braverman and Jacob Rees-Mogg, the haunted Victorian pencil.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 8:26 AM on October 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
Now to see what horror show the Tories can inflict on us next - they've managed to win the Worst Prime Minister in History award for each of the last four, they're really going to have to work at it to top Truss.
My money is on a run-off between Suella "I dream of sending refugees to Rwanda" Braverman and Jacob Rees-Mogg, the haunted Victorian pencil.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 8:26 AM on October 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
If nothing else, this provides a welcome respite from contemplating the clusterfuck that is the US these days. Please continue this wonderful show for as long as possible.*
* Just kidding, I hope this ends soon.
posted by tommasz at 8:29 AM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by tommasz at 8:29 AM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
On the other hand, Lizz Truss was PM when the queen died.
To Liz Truss's credit - she is the first UK PM since Churchill to serve under two Monarchs.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 8:30 AM on October 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
To Liz Truss's credit - she is the first UK PM since Churchill to serve under two Monarchs.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 8:30 AM on October 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
If BoJo the clown comes back from this, it'll be an even shittier reboot of House of Cards than the one with the teen molester.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:30 AM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:30 AM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Jacob Rees-Mogg, the haunted Victorian pencil.
That was a nice bit of phrasing, I must say.
posted by aramaic at 8:32 AM on October 20, 2022 [17 favorites]
That was a nice bit of phrasing, I must say.
posted by aramaic at 8:32 AM on October 20, 2022 [17 favorites]
Kenyan journalist, Patrick Gathara, who probably is known to most of us non-Kenyans after his tweets in the Trump years went viral, tweeting about the West the way westerners report about Africa, has added new tweets to his long-running breaking news:
#BREAKING Ethnic tensions rise in reclusive, unstable, tribally-divided island kingdom of Britain as inept extremist Liz Truss regime teeters on brink of collapse with interior minister announcing resignation after failing to secure asylum flight to Rwanda for cabinet colleagues.
#BREAKING Suella Braverman, an extremist from one of the country's smaller tribes, had often spoken publicly of dream of fleeing to Rwanda but has been forced to resign days after suicide bombing of UK economy claimed career of another ethnic minority militant, Kwasi Kwarteng.
#BREAKING AU envoys express "grave concern" over turmoil in unstable UK where more than 67 million eke out living amid worsening drought, economic free fall, and severe biting crisis exacerbated by poor dental health with soaring energy costs leaving many unable to boil food.
There's more, as always, in his thread.
posted by cendawanita at 8:34 AM on October 20, 2022 [91 favorites]
#BREAKING Ethnic tensions rise in reclusive, unstable, tribally-divided island kingdom of Britain as inept extremist Liz Truss regime teeters on brink of collapse with interior minister announcing resignation after failing to secure asylum flight to Rwanda for cabinet colleagues.
#BREAKING Suella Braverman, an extremist from one of the country's smaller tribes, had often spoken publicly of dream of fleeing to Rwanda but has been forced to resign days after suicide bombing of UK economy claimed career of another ethnic minority militant, Kwasi Kwarteng.
#BREAKING AU envoys express "grave concern" over turmoil in unstable UK where more than 67 million eke out living amid worsening drought, economic free fall, and severe biting crisis exacerbated by poor dental health with soaring energy costs leaving many unable to boil food.
There's more, as always, in his thread.
posted by cendawanita at 8:34 AM on October 20, 2022 [91 favorites]
As soon as I heard the news I went straight to the lettuce live stream and they were pouring champagne and playing a dance remix of “Celebration” and I laughed so hard I had to take off my glasses.
posted by ob1quixote at 8:35 AM on October 20, 2022 [13 favorites]
posted by ob1quixote at 8:35 AM on October 20, 2022 [13 favorites]
As an American I feel like this situation, and that in Italy, have really killed my early twenties naivete that the main problem with US politics was the winner take all, two party system. Multi-party parliamentary systems seem to be just as prone to dysfunction and minority rule.
Humans do remain involved, for sure.
posted by mph at 8:37 AM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
Humans do remain involved, for sure.
posted by mph at 8:37 AM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
I can't enjoy any schadenfreude since (A) millions of people who didn't vote for the Tories are suffering and will continue to suffer, and (2) the same confluence of "become ungovernable" and "fuck you I got mine" that keeps the Tories in power in the UK is driving Republican power in the US. As long as people who want nothing more than to dismantle the state keep getting elected (and it looks like that's not likely to change), we're in for more crises on both sides of the pond.
posted by fedward at 8:40 AM on October 20, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by fedward at 8:40 AM on October 20, 2022 [10 favorites]
leaving many unable to boil food.
snort
posted by adept256 at 8:40 AM on October 20, 2022 [15 favorites]
snort
posted by adept256 at 8:40 AM on October 20, 2022 [15 favorites]
Comes in
Kills the Queen
Tanks the economy
Leaves
Skynet: "Well, I know who I'm sending next time."
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:40 AM on October 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
Kills the Queen
Tanks the economy
Leaves
Skynet: "Well, I know who I'm sending next time."
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:40 AM on October 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
Liz Truss is now entitled to £115,000 per year for the rest of her life as "Public Duties Cost Allowance".
Well the "good" news is that if things continue to go the way they're going, that £115,000 is going to be just enough for a week's Tesco run in a few years
posted by rhymedirective at 8:40 AM on October 20, 2022 [14 favorites]
Well the "good" news is that if things continue to go the way they're going, that £115,000 is going to be just enough for a week's Tesco run in a few years
posted by rhymedirective at 8:40 AM on October 20, 2022 [14 favorites]
If BoJo the clown comes back from this
Although Truss has reset the bar, we must not forget just how unpopular Johnson was for most of his time in office, and taking a short break won't have fixed that. And his one trick - selling himself as a new broom to fix all the problems caused by his own f*cking party - won't work twice. Truss was booted out too quickly to be destroyed by the Northern Ireland Protocol, but that is waiting for whoever replaces her. The ERG fanatics still want it gone, the "business-friendly" side of the party are horrified at the prospect of the repercussions of doing that. Eventually the next Tory leader will have to decide which faction to displease.
This doesn't mean that the party won't put him back in power - I cannot predict how that vote will go - but it won't really change how much trouble they are in.
posted by YoungStencil at 8:41 AM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
Although Truss has reset the bar, we must not forget just how unpopular Johnson was for most of his time in office, and taking a short break won't have fixed that. And his one trick - selling himself as a new broom to fix all the problems caused by his own f*cking party - won't work twice. Truss was booted out too quickly to be destroyed by the Northern Ireland Protocol, but that is waiting for whoever replaces her. The ERG fanatics still want it gone, the "business-friendly" side of the party are horrified at the prospect of the repercussions of doing that. Eventually the next Tory leader will have to decide which faction to displease.
This doesn't mean that the party won't put him back in power - I cannot predict how that vote will go - but it won't really change how much trouble they are in.
posted by YoungStencil at 8:41 AM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
And we still haven't reached the part of the year where none of us can afford to put the heating on this winter while also all having covid again. Which is going to be fun.
posted by dng at 8:45 AM on October 20, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by dng at 8:45 AM on October 20, 2022 [10 favorites]
adept256: Watch - Labor will be in power for five minutes before the time-bombs and landmines they laid start going off and they howl look at the mess you made!
A good point. I don't see why the senior behind-the-scenes leadership of the Conservative Party doesn't stage-manage a "principled backbenchers' revolt" or somesuch to force a non-confidence vote then take advantage of the expected landslide electoral defeat. Not like any government members will lack for a job after the election, having "former Tory MP" on your CV will surely ease the transition to private life. Labour will be gifted with a large but unruly majority and will immediately have to grapple with the complex effects of a worldwide economic malaise, whereas the "New" Tories, now refreshed by the culling of the unworthy within their ranks, can immediately start campaigning for the next election by screaming about the new government's failures before Starmer has even had his first meeting with the king.
posted by hangashore at 8:46 AM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
A good point. I don't see why the senior behind-the-scenes leadership of the Conservative Party doesn't stage-manage a "principled backbenchers' revolt" or somesuch to force a non-confidence vote then take advantage of the expected landslide electoral defeat. Not like any government members will lack for a job after the election, having "former Tory MP" on your CV will surely ease the transition to private life. Labour will be gifted with a large but unruly majority and will immediately have to grapple with the complex effects of a worldwide economic malaise, whereas the "New" Tories, now refreshed by the culling of the unworthy within their ranks, can immediately start campaigning for the next election by screaming about the new government's failures before Starmer has even had his first meeting with the king.
posted by hangashore at 8:46 AM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
cendawanita: Kenyan journalist, Patrick Gathara...
"following failure of inept, extremist ruler, Liz Truss, to outlast lettuce, an important traditional test of leadership in the tiny, flavour-starved kingdom."
heh
posted by clawsoon at 8:46 AM on October 20, 2022 [25 favorites]
"following failure of inept, extremist ruler, Liz Truss, to outlast lettuce, an important traditional test of leadership in the tiny, flavour-starved kingdom."
heh
posted by clawsoon at 8:46 AM on October 20, 2022 [25 favorites]
Boris Johnson is clearly going to be the next leader because just look at this planet.
posted by saturday_morning at 8:48 AM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by saturday_morning at 8:48 AM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
Liz Truss is now entitled to £115,000 per year for the rest of her life
£115K is the maximum cap.
The costs are a reimbursement of incurred expenses for necessary office costs and secretarial costs arising from their special position in public life.
posted by Lanark at 8:49 AM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
£115K is the maximum cap.
The costs are a reimbursement of incurred expenses for necessary office costs and secretarial costs arising from their special position in public life.
posted by Lanark at 8:49 AM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
Talk on Twitter that Johnson may run againUkrainian Memes Forces ftw.
posted by mazola at 9:00 AM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
If you wanted to establish the idea of a feckless new king you could hardly do better than to have him stand idly by while the elected government drives itself into ruin as he fails to exert any of his ceremonial power in an attempt to stop it.
Er.... no. The entire purpose of the monarch in modern Britain is to stand idly by while the Government does whatever it's going to do. Charles doing anything to obviously intervene would be considered a crisis of considerably greater magnitude than we're already mired in. "Ceremonial power" is an oxymoron. The monarch is a ceremonial position, and therefore not a position of power.
/Came in hoping for a thread without wildly innaccurate hot takes about the monarchy from the US, was disappointed.
A few weeks ago, every night the top story on the news was how the cost of living crisis was going to devastate the lives of huge swathes of Britain's population. That was before Truss and Kwarteng crashed the markets and sent interest rates soaring. It's so much worse now, and yet it doesn't even rate a mention on the news, because the journalists have to keep assembling in fucking Downing Street to report on these deluded, incompetent morons who WILL NOT LET GO OF POWER even though they've repeatedly proved themselves completely unfit to hold it, first on moral grounds (Johnson) and now on the grounds of even the most basic competence (Truss).
posted by penguin pie at 9:00 AM on October 20, 2022 [39 favorites]
Er.... no. The entire purpose of the monarch in modern Britain is to stand idly by while the Government does whatever it's going to do. Charles doing anything to obviously intervene would be considered a crisis of considerably greater magnitude than we're already mired in. "Ceremonial power" is an oxymoron. The monarch is a ceremonial position, and therefore not a position of power.
/Came in hoping for a thread without wildly innaccurate hot takes about the monarchy from the US, was disappointed.
A few weeks ago, every night the top story on the news was how the cost of living crisis was going to devastate the lives of huge swathes of Britain's population. That was before Truss and Kwarteng crashed the markets and sent interest rates soaring. It's so much worse now, and yet it doesn't even rate a mention on the news, because the journalists have to keep assembling in fucking Downing Street to report on these deluded, incompetent morons who WILL NOT LET GO OF POWER even though they've repeatedly proved themselves completely unfit to hold it, first on moral grounds (Johnson) and now on the grounds of even the most basic competence (Truss).
posted by penguin pie at 9:00 AM on October 20, 2022 [39 favorites]
I don't see why the senior behind-the-scenes leadership of the Conservative Party doesn't stage-manage a "principled backbenchers' revolt" or somesuch to force a non-confidence vote then take advantage of the expected landslide electoral defeat.
At current polling rates, far too many of them will lose their jobs to be willing to inflict it on themselves. In 1997 when the Tories lost to Blair's Labour government, it was apparently incredibly difficult for now ex Tory MPs to find jobs. And we weren't even in recession.
It is, I guess, possible that a new Tory leader would go to the polls early. Whether you go before the end of this year, or in Spring next year depends on how well you think the winter is going to go I guess. Also, going back to the monarchy, we've got a coronation planned for early May.
posted by plonkee at 9:08 AM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
At current polling rates, far too many of them will lose their jobs to be willing to inflict it on themselves. In 1997 when the Tories lost to Blair's Labour government, it was apparently incredibly difficult for now ex Tory MPs to find jobs. And we weren't even in recession.
It is, I guess, possible that a new Tory leader would go to the polls early. Whether you go before the end of this year, or in Spring next year depends on how well you think the winter is going to go I guess. Also, going back to the monarchy, we've got a coronation planned for early May.
posted by plonkee at 9:08 AM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
a major blow to sub visibility
per a tweeter:
in other "wait, you've got to be pulling my leg, there's no way the uk has a gulp shitto problem":
posted by i used to be someone else at 9:11 AM on October 20, 2022 [8 favorites]
per a tweeter:
>sworn in(context re: day collar, and now the strange part of my brain is wondering if the mini-budget was a move to satisfy a findom's request)
>queen dies
>two weeks of mourning
>collapse government
>resign
>been wearing day collar the entire time
just six weeks in the life of england's greatest public humiliation fetishist
in other "wait, you've got to be pulling my leg, there's no way the uk has a gulp shitto problem":
Liz Truss is the shortest tenured UK Prime Minister ever, even below Bonar Law.a lot can change in a century.
posted by i used to be someone else at 9:11 AM on October 20, 2022 [8 favorites]
I really don't know who would call him feckless for not totally wrecking one of the pillars of the monarchy, I guess? Like, nobody is expecting him to act, wants him to act, or thinks he *could* act to change things.
posted by sagc at 9:16 AM on October 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by sagc at 9:16 AM on October 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
Why on earth are we derailing the thread with KC3? He's about as relevant to this situation as Churchill the dog.
posted by Dysk at 9:20 AM on October 20, 2022 [20 favorites]
posted by Dysk at 9:20 AM on October 20, 2022 [20 favorites]
I mean, not really? I think one thing that all Britons can agree on is that the monarch shouldn't summarily dismiss Parliament. Like, they kind of had a civil war about it.
posted by rhymedirective at 9:21 AM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by rhymedirective at 9:21 AM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Right, but his inaction [as monarch] will be used to criticize him, because he [Charles] is a punching bag.
Nah, it'll be used to criticize Meghan Markle somehow, just because.
posted by clawsoon at 9:22 AM on October 20, 2022 [19 favorites]
Nah, it'll be used to criticize Meghan Markle somehow, just because.
posted by clawsoon at 9:22 AM on October 20, 2022 [19 favorites]
Sorry if I've misunderstood fedward, your original comment read like you think Charles would be negligent if he chose to "stand idly by" and "failed to exert" his power.
But from your follow-up:
Right, but his inaction [as monarch] will be used to criticize him, because he [Charles] is a punching bag.
Is also just not true at all. Nobody expects him to intervene, and nobody will criticise him for staying out of it. Staying out of it is precisely what's expected of him and I can't think of anyone - even the most bonkers of our press - that's going to try and establish a narrative that he should be getting involved and is failing by staying out of it. They're not even talking about him. He's nothing to do with it.
My apologies for kicking off a derail though - there's a bit of a history of British politics threads on MeFi attracting attempts to discuss the monarchy from folk overseas who don't understand that the monarchy is irrelevant in the actual functioning of British politics. Obviously I've worsened things by shining a light on it rather than just gritting my teeth and moving on, so will now go and seethe quietly to myself elsewhere about the sheer madness of everything.
posted by penguin pie at 9:36 AM on October 20, 2022 [33 favorites]
But from your follow-up:
Right, but his inaction [as monarch] will be used to criticize him, because he [Charles] is a punching bag.
Is also just not true at all. Nobody expects him to intervene, and nobody will criticise him for staying out of it. Staying out of it is precisely what's expected of him and I can't think of anyone - even the most bonkers of our press - that's going to try and establish a narrative that he should be getting involved and is failing by staying out of it. They're not even talking about him. He's nothing to do with it.
My apologies for kicking off a derail though - there's a bit of a history of British politics threads on MeFi attracting attempts to discuss the monarchy from folk overseas who don't understand that the monarchy is irrelevant in the actual functioning of British politics. Obviously I've worsened things by shining a light on it rather than just gritting my teeth and moving on, so will now go and seethe quietly to myself elsewhere about the sheer madness of everything.
posted by penguin pie at 9:36 AM on October 20, 2022 [33 favorites]
There will be a private hustings after nominations close
That sounds dirty. What a bunch of perverts!
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:43 AM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
That sounds dirty. What a bunch of perverts!
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:43 AM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Fuckity bye!
posted by schoolgirl report at 9:45 AM on October 20, 2022 [23 favorites]
posted by schoolgirl report at 9:45 AM on October 20, 2022 [23 favorites]
As a bond trader, I can't help but be amused that the bond market overthrew a Prime Minister.
posted by MattD at 9:46 AM on October 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by MattD at 9:46 AM on October 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
Looks like candidates with 100 or more nominations by Tory MPs on Monday will go into a wider membership vote next week, with results on Friday. So maximum of three candidates possible, and potential for a direct winner Monday if only one candidate clears 100. (Presumably if no candidate clears a 100 they do a second round of nominations or maybe a few rounds of Squid Game)
posted by inflatablekiwi at 9:49 AM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by inflatablekiwi at 9:49 AM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
As a bond trader, I can't help but be amused that the bond market overthrew a Prime Minister.
So what's the real reason you did it?
posted by clawsoon at 9:49 AM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
So what's the real reason you did it?
posted by clawsoon at 9:49 AM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
Even those of us in Commonwealth countries can be deluded as to the role of the sovereign and their viceregal representatives in the formation or dissolution of our own governments. When Stephen Harper broke his own fixed term parliaments act to call the 2008 Canadian federal election, many demanded that the Governor-General refuse Harper's request since the government did not fall due to a non-confidence vote, and criticized her for not doing so (totally ignoring the huge dustup that resulted from the last time one of her predecessors so interfered). When her term ended and her successor was announced, many praised the choice of a law professor since he would be able to wisely rule in constitutional matters, again forgetting that the Governor-General's role is NOT to meddle in the affairs of government.
posted by hangashore at 10:00 AM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by hangashore at 10:00 AM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
As an American I feel like this situation, and that in Italy, have really killed my early twenties naivete that the main problem with US politics was the winner take all, two party system
As Dysk says, we have first-past-the-post here, but we also have more than two parties. Sadly most of the time third+ parties only influence the election in the way they divert votes, Nader/Perot/Stein-like, from one of the two main parties.
posted by BCMagee at 10:09 AM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
As Dysk says, we have first-past-the-post here, but we also have more than two parties. Sadly most of the time third+ parties only influence the election in the way they divert votes, Nader/Perot/Stein-like, from one of the two main parties.
posted by BCMagee at 10:09 AM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
My son has lived through four chancellors, three home secretaries, two prime ministers and two monarchs.
He's four months old. - Oct. 19, 2022 Sky News editor Alan McGuinness@Alan_McGuinness
Soon to be three prime ministers... - Oct. 20, 2022 Alan McGuinness@Alan_McGuinness
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:22 AM on October 20, 2022 [13 favorites]
He's four months old. - Oct. 19, 2022 Sky News editor Alan McGuinness@Alan_McGuinness
Soon to be three prime ministers... - Oct. 20, 2022 Alan McGuinness@Alan_McGuinness
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:22 AM on October 20, 2022 [13 favorites]
As an American I feel like this situation, and that in Italy, have really killed my early twenties naivete that the main problem with US politics was the winner take all, two party system
As Dysk says, we have first-past-the-post here, but we also have more than two parties. Sadly most of the time third+ parties only influence the election in the way they divert votes, Nader/Perot/Stein-like, from one of the two main parties.
Well, indeed. Talking about a multi-party system in the UK is about as accurate as talking about it in the US. Yes, both countries technically have more than two parties, but only technically.
posted by rosiroo at 10:25 AM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
As Dysk says, we have first-past-the-post here, but we also have more than two parties. Sadly most of the time third+ parties only influence the election in the way they divert votes, Nader/Perot/Stein-like, from one of the two main parties.
Well, indeed. Talking about a multi-party system in the UK is about as accurate as talking about it in the US. Yes, both countries technically have more than two parties, but only technically.
posted by rosiroo at 10:25 AM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
The 15% of the Commons that aren't Labour or Tories are way more than "technically." The SNP, Sinn Fein+DUP, and Plaid Cymru aren't just technicalities.
The UK is like Canada in being a system with many parties that's only rarely functionally multiparty because one party commonly takes a majority of seats.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 10:34 AM on October 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
The UK is like Canada in being a system with many parties that's only rarely functionally multiparty because one party commonly takes a majority of seats.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 10:34 AM on October 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
BSDM PM says safe word after a 6 week spanking.
posted by interogative mood at 10:35 AM on October 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 10:35 AM on October 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
Yes, both countries technically have more than two parties, but only technically.
Given that the omnishambles of Brexit was driven in good part by the work of a third party and how it altered the political field, this argument doesn't really hold up.
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:43 AM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
Given that the omnishambles of Brexit was driven in good part by the work of a third party and how it altered the political field, this argument doesn't really hold up.
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:43 AM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
"Liz Truss wears a necklace, therefore she must be into BDSM" is probably the stupidest thing I've ever heard, and I live in Essex and have heard quite a lot.
posted by dng at 10:51 AM on October 20, 2022 [24 favorites]
posted by dng at 10:51 AM on October 20, 2022 [24 favorites]
Are the salad days over?
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:53 AM on October 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:53 AM on October 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
"Liz Truss wears a necklace, therefore she must be into BDSM" is probably the stupidest thing I've ever heard
Well sure, it sounds stupid when you simplify it and erase the details that make it interesting.
For the record, I think it's probably false and just an amusing notion, because someone at that high level would almost certainly be more discreet. But it's not just "a necklace," it's the style and the consistency with which she wears it. If someone wore a ring on their left ring finger, people might assume something about them too!
If she were unmarried but in the habit of wearing a band on her left ring finger, someone would say, "Liz, wearing that ring is fueling rumors, you might consider changing it up."
So basically the options are either "she's in a BDSM relationship" or "she's wearing a necklace that she knows fuels rumors that she's in a BDSM relationship, and she's content to let the rumors continue." I'd argue there's a secret "her advisors are as clueless as her" third option, but they're all able to read the tabloids.
posted by explosion at 11:03 AM on October 20, 2022 [10 favorites]
Well sure, it sounds stupid when you simplify it and erase the details that make it interesting.
For the record, I think it's probably false and just an amusing notion, because someone at that high level would almost certainly be more discreet. But it's not just "a necklace," it's the style and the consistency with which she wears it. If someone wore a ring on their left ring finger, people might assume something about them too!
If she were unmarried but in the habit of wearing a band on her left ring finger, someone would say, "Liz, wearing that ring is fueling rumors, you might consider changing it up."
So basically the options are either "she's in a BDSM relationship" or "she's wearing a necklace that she knows fuels rumors that she's in a BDSM relationship, and she's content to let the rumors continue." I'd argue there's a secret "her advisors are as clueless as her" third option, but they're all able to read the tabloids.
posted by explosion at 11:03 AM on October 20, 2022 [10 favorites]
BREAKING AU envoys express "grave concern" over turmoil in unstable UK where more than 67 million eke out living amid worsening drought, economic free fall, and severe biting crisis exacerbated by poor dental health with soaring energy costs leaving many unable to boil food
Kind of what I was thinking; Britain is a small country of 68 million people which cannot grow its own food and doesn’t make much of anything other people need or want — and it has some financial markets.
Left to its own devices — which is exactly what Brexit was all about — how can it possibly fail to collapse?
posted by jamjam at 11:06 AM on October 20, 2022
Kind of what I was thinking; Britain is a small country of 68 million people which cannot grow its own food and doesn’t make much of anything other people need or want — and it has some financial markets.
Left to its own devices — which is exactly what Brexit was all about — how can it possibly fail to collapse?
posted by jamjam at 11:06 AM on October 20, 2022
"Liz Truss wears a necklace, therefore she must be into BDSM" is probably the stupidest thing I've ever heard, and I live in Essex and have heard quite a lot.
I think it's the particular type of necklace with a large ring on the front that she wears literally all the time, which is a somewhat similar design to a day collar worn by submissives who are a fan of "Histoire d'O"
It's not exactly likely - a day collar is usually more of a choker I understand - but it's akin to the persistant rumour that David Cameron fucked a dead pig's head as part of an initiation ritual at Oxford uni, or the Trump pee tape. A way to mock an unpopular politician, e.g:
Truss crashed the economy, destroyed the pound, nearly bankrupted British pensions and put £500 on everyone's mortgages because her Tufton Street Finance Dom told her to.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 11:10 AM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
I think it's the particular type of necklace with a large ring on the front that she wears literally all the time, which is a somewhat similar design to a day collar worn by submissives who are a fan of "Histoire d'O"
It's not exactly likely - a day collar is usually more of a choker I understand - but it's akin to the persistant rumour that David Cameron fucked a dead pig's head as part of an initiation ritual at Oxford uni, or the Trump pee tape. A way to mock an unpopular politician, e.g:
Truss crashed the economy, destroyed the pound, nearly bankrupted British pensions and put £500 on everyone's mortgages because her Tufton Street Finance Dom told her to.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 11:10 AM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
and doesn’t make much of anything other people need or want
Jet engines. There aren't many countries that can make cutting edge jet engines or gas turbines.
But once you get to #11 on the list of exports, it's human and animal blood.
posted by clawsoon at 11:12 AM on October 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
Jet engines. There aren't many countries that can make cutting edge jet engines or gas turbines.
But once you get to #11 on the list of exports, it's human and animal blood.
posted by clawsoon at 11:12 AM on October 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
The big-ass circle in the center of the necklaces Truss favors looks more like a cock ring to me anyway, for the record.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:16 AM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:16 AM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
Emergency Trusscast on Oh God, What Now? is up.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 11:22 AM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by inflatablekiwi at 11:22 AM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
At this point, surely there are some in Labour who're willing to talk to SNP for an Anything But Tory coalition? Because it's mentioned upthread but it's worth reemphasizing, what the US (Presidential) elections and the UK general elections share is the first past the post voting system (hence the breathless CNN coverage Americans go through every 4 years, as the colours inch upwards, red or blue?), and FPTP rewards brute force calculations, which is why smaller (in American English, "third parties/Nader/Greens") parties are useful to the incumbent, for the spoiler vote role. Now that Scotland stopped playing the role, that they had along with northern England, of checking Tory vote count, the next GE would still feel sadly inevitable imo.
posted by cendawanita at 11:25 AM on October 20, 2022
posted by cendawanita at 11:25 AM on October 20, 2022
My favorite take so far was from Andrew Lilico (head economist for Vote Leave) yesterday, who opined that Truss should "go to the King, resign, and recommend he send for Starmer."
Not because he's any particular fan of Starmer or Labour, but because he recognized that the Tories are in such a cataclysmic shambles that they have no one more capable than Starmer of piecing things back together right now. (That, and a bit of "this well is poisoned thoroughly, so let's make THEM drink it for a bit." He's since shifted to "if we're going to hang onto it, might as well bring back Boris, incompetent as he may well be.")
However, a caution. Do not make the mistake of thinking that the Tories fundamentally disagree with Truss's primary goal -- stripping the UK of its wealth, handing it to the elites, and dismantling fiscal and social obligations to the general public. They don't. They wouldn't be Tories if they did. Where they threw their hands up was when Team Truss went for it with ridiculous urgency and emphasis, straight to the throat with the mini-budget without proposing much of anything as to how to pay for it, and made it very clear that they had no interest in anyone but their own hand-chosen staff providing input as to whether or how to enact it.
Whomever emerges as PM should spend a couple of months in caretaker mode, allowing the fireworks show to die down and restoring some confidence that a Tory Parliament is, in fact, somewhat capable of not fucking up a grilled cheese sandwich. THEN they can aim for tax cuts and austerity at a more measured pace, one small slice at a time, rather than fiscally bombing the nation from orbit.
But who knows? It could end up being Suella "Launch all immigrants into the Sun" Braverman or some similarly Lovecraftian horror who emerges.
posted by delfin at 11:26 AM on October 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
Not because he's any particular fan of Starmer or Labour, but because he recognized that the Tories are in such a cataclysmic shambles that they have no one more capable than Starmer of piecing things back together right now. (That, and a bit of "this well is poisoned thoroughly, so let's make THEM drink it for a bit." He's since shifted to "if we're going to hang onto it, might as well bring back Boris, incompetent as he may well be.")
However, a caution. Do not make the mistake of thinking that the Tories fundamentally disagree with Truss's primary goal -- stripping the UK of its wealth, handing it to the elites, and dismantling fiscal and social obligations to the general public. They don't. They wouldn't be Tories if they did. Where they threw their hands up was when Team Truss went for it with ridiculous urgency and emphasis, straight to the throat with the mini-budget without proposing much of anything as to how to pay for it, and made it very clear that they had no interest in anyone but their own hand-chosen staff providing input as to whether or how to enact it.
Whomever emerges as PM should spend a couple of months in caretaker mode, allowing the fireworks show to die down and restoring some confidence that a Tory Parliament is, in fact, somewhat capable of not fucking up a grilled cheese sandwich. THEN they can aim for tax cuts and austerity at a more measured pace, one small slice at a time, rather than fiscally bombing the nation from orbit.
But who knows? It could end up being Suella "Launch all immigrants into the Sun" Braverman or some similarly Lovecraftian horror who emerges.
posted by delfin at 11:26 AM on October 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
Everything you want to know about the blood export business. TLDR: It is used to make a variety of human and animal food products like sausages, as an additive for flavor and in protein supplements. It also has some pharmaceutical uses such as in making vaccines.
posted by interogative mood at 11:28 AM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by interogative mood at 11:28 AM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
I think one thing that all Britons can agree on is that the monarch shouldn't summarily dismiss Parliament. Like, they kind of had a civil war about it.
I am about as British as it's possible to be and a lifelong non-monarchist, and I can tell you that right now if Charles announced he was unilaterally dissolving parliament, I would run outside and start belting out God Save the King at the top of my fucking lungs, because at this point the crisis that would follow could hardly be any worse for the country than the one we're already in, let alone the one we'll be in by the time 2024 rolls around.
Who would even care at this point? The rules were all thrown out of the window years ago anyway. Everyone except a few selfish shitheads on the Tory benches would just breathe a sigh of relief at not having to deal with two more years of this batshit insanity. There'd be an election and we'd have a functioning government again. One which might finally pass proportional representation, no less, to break this stupid cycle once and for all. And when all the dust settled, it could sit down with the constitutional scholars, agree that nothing like that should ever happen again, and write all this royal nonsense out of existence for good.
The monarchy's not going to last forever anyway, is it Charlie. You'll never be as popular as your mum and you know it. So be a proper King, just the once. Send it all out with a bang doing something great. You know you want to. You've got the right name for it and everything. What an ending. What poetry it would be.
No I'm not serious, and no it's not going to happen, but it's a lot more fun to speculate about than which godawful Tory we get next, and what the fuck else can we even do at this point.
posted by automatronic at 11:34 AM on October 20, 2022 [28 favorites]
I am about as British as it's possible to be and a lifelong non-monarchist, and I can tell you that right now if Charles announced he was unilaterally dissolving parliament, I would run outside and start belting out God Save the King at the top of my fucking lungs, because at this point the crisis that would follow could hardly be any worse for the country than the one we're already in, let alone the one we'll be in by the time 2024 rolls around.
Who would even care at this point? The rules were all thrown out of the window years ago anyway. Everyone except a few selfish shitheads on the Tory benches would just breathe a sigh of relief at not having to deal with two more years of this batshit insanity. There'd be an election and we'd have a functioning government again. One which might finally pass proportional representation, no less, to break this stupid cycle once and for all. And when all the dust settled, it could sit down with the constitutional scholars, agree that nothing like that should ever happen again, and write all this royal nonsense out of existence for good.
The monarchy's not going to last forever anyway, is it Charlie. You'll never be as popular as your mum and you know it. So be a proper King, just the once. Send it all out with a bang doing something great. You know you want to. You've got the right name for it and everything. What an ending. What poetry it would be.
No I'm not serious, and no it's not going to happen, but it's a lot more fun to speculate about than which godawful Tory we get next, and what the fuck else can we even do at this point.
posted by automatronic at 11:34 AM on October 20, 2022 [28 favorites]
Andrew Lillico : Key opponent of UK membership of €. Intellectual architect of the 2010 Austerity programme. Lead economist of Vote Leave. Analyst or designer of much regulation
Is that a parody account? It's like bragging about being a fucking muppet.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 11:35 AM on October 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
Is that a parody account? It's like bragging about being a fucking muppet.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 11:35 AM on October 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
Mod note: A few comments deleted:
1. Please avoid centering issues around the US.
2. Do not turn the thread into a 1-on-1 discussion.
3. Name calling is not acceptable and will likely result in account bans if it continues. [Refer to the Content Policy]
posted by loup (staff) at 11:36 AM on October 20, 2022 [24 favorites]
1. Please avoid centering issues around the US.
2. Do not turn the thread into a 1-on-1 discussion.
3. Name calling is not acceptable and will likely result in account bans if it continues. [Refer to the Content Policy]
posted by loup (staff) at 11:36 AM on October 20, 2022 [24 favorites]
Truss's "special adviser, political," Jason Stein, used to work for Prince Andrew
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:38 AM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:38 AM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
used to work for Prince Andrew
Failing ... sideways? Failing downward in a tight spiral? Failing kata? Or is it ana?
posted by thatwhichfalls at 11:45 AM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
Failing ... sideways? Failing downward in a tight spiral? Failing kata? Or is it ana?
posted by thatwhichfalls at 11:45 AM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
banks last week talking
Berenberg: "It is not easy to see how Truss – whose personal mandate is now in tatters – can continue as PM for long."
Citi: "The fundamental question here is whether any Conservative leader can offer credible economic direction. We are increasingly unsure."
posted by away for regrooving at 11:48 AM on October 20, 2022
Berenberg: "It is not easy to see how Truss – whose personal mandate is now in tatters – can continue as PM for long."
Citi: "The fundamental question here is whether any Conservative leader can offer credible economic direction. We are increasingly unsure."
posted by away for regrooving at 11:48 AM on October 20, 2022
pm speedrun any% clipok
posted by sidesh0w at 11:52 AM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by sidesh0w at 11:52 AM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
As a bond trader, I can't help but be amused that the bond market overthrew a Prime Minister.
Bond. James Bond.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:53 AM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Bond. James Bond.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:53 AM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
more like gold bond for the reaming we've just taken
posted by lalochezia at 12:00 PM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by lalochezia at 12:00 PM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
→
That was the English civil war. While there are precious few Scots who'd still call themselves British, Scotland wasn't part of that civil war. Apart from getting invaded by that war criminal Cromwell, that is
posted by scruss at 12:07 PM on October 20, 2022 [12 favorites]
all Britons ... kind of had a civil war about it.
That was the English civil war. While there are precious few Scots who'd still call themselves British, Scotland wasn't part of that civil war. Apart from getting invaded by that war criminal Cromwell, that is
posted by scruss at 12:07 PM on October 20, 2022 [12 favorites]
Scotland wasn't part of that civil war
My memory on the civil war is all mixed up, but wasn't there a point when Scottish Presbyterians had a reasonable chance of imposing their religion on England?
posted by clawsoon at 12:11 PM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
My memory on the civil war is all mixed up, but wasn't there a point when Scottish Presbyterians had a reasonable chance of imposing their religion on England?
posted by clawsoon at 12:11 PM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
So she bet the ranch trying to rule her thousand islands, and got oil and vinegar in return. In the end, she couldn't hold down the roquefort.
Please romaine calm.
Lettuce not lose our heads.
Stay clear of icebergs.
Sacre bleu cheese! (Pardon my french.)
posted by zaixfeep at 12:15 PM on October 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
Please romaine calm.
Lettuce not lose our heads.
Stay clear of icebergs.
Sacre bleu cheese! (Pardon my french.)
posted by zaixfeep at 12:15 PM on October 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
Larry the Cat! retweeted this excellent use of The Muppet Show as framing for ongoing political debacle.
posted by spamandkimchi at 12:16 PM on October 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by spamandkimchi at 12:16 PM on October 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
The S.S. Truss crashed into an Iceberg
(lettuce)
posted by Saxon Kane at 12:16 PM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
(lettuce)
posted by Saxon Kane at 12:16 PM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
Anyone else look at Truss and see Blackadder's Queen Elizabeth spouting Pooey! and ...but I have the stomach of a concrete elephant?
Also re BDSM rumors... might the pendant be a sign of an Anglican analogue to Opus Dei?
posted by zaixfeep at 12:17 PM on October 20, 2022
Also re BDSM rumors... might the pendant be a sign of an Anglican analogue to Opus Dei?
posted by zaixfeep at 12:17 PM on October 20, 2022
Very useful explanation from Novara Media's coverage for this clueless North American:
As in any tragedy, the principal actors were brought low by a fatal flaw: in this case they mistook the encouragement of rightwing papers, and the hubris of their own party membership, for political reality.posted by spamandkimchi at 12:18 PM on October 20, 2022 [9 favorites]
Indeed Liz Truss (a bear of very little brain, huffing the fumes of reheated Thatcherism) wasn’t exactly elevated to power on the basis of any discernible ability as a politician. Like an Instagram babe posting selfies taken on fake private jets, Truss’s curation of photoshoots in which she dressed up as the Iron Lady was enough to convince the Tory faithful that pushing through an economic programme of swingeing tax cuts could bring back North Sea oil and the halcyon days of the 1980s.
...
Its critical error wasn’t making the country poorer: it was attacking its own voters. Everything that the Conservative party had achieved since 2010 was built on the electorally-beneficial spread of people who owned property across England, and the consolidation of tenants in politically-useless urban concentrations. 57% of 2019’s Conservative voters owned their homes outright. Stagnant wages, rising household debt and the accessibility of secure housing for under-45s was of little matter so long as homeowners were rewarded with their assets going up in value, and pensioners enjoyed the benefits of the triple-lock.
What is the point of having representational democracy if you don't let the elected representatives choose leadership, especially in a parliamentary system? This is how you end up with the Truss and Corbyn kind of leaders.
I'm relatively ok with party membership choosing a new party leader when they form the opposition, the goal after all is for that person to do a good job and convince all electors to vote for their party come next election, and they don't wield the power of a PM.
But party membership choosing a new PM is.... well it stinks, mostly (and not only) because you can buy your way in by buying a membership card and buy a vote to choose the next PM, it's wrong.
The lack of rules around this is probably explained by the usual stability of majority holding parties in Westminster style parliaments, it's exceedingly rare for the PM to resign and usually parties are not in omni-shamble state like the UK conservatives are now.
But clearly the resignation of a PM should probably trigger an election in the next n<3 months, and the interim PM should be chosen by elected MPs while the party is free to choose somebody else to campaign in the next election.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 12:25 PM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm relatively ok with party membership choosing a new party leader when they form the opposition, the goal after all is for that person to do a good job and convince all electors to vote for their party come next election, and they don't wield the power of a PM.
But party membership choosing a new PM is.... well it stinks, mostly (and not only) because you can buy your way in by buying a membership card and buy a vote to choose the next PM, it's wrong.
The lack of rules around this is probably explained by the usual stability of majority holding parties in Westminster style parliaments, it's exceedingly rare for the PM to resign and usually parties are not in omni-shamble state like the UK conservatives are now.
But clearly the resignation of a PM should probably trigger an election in the next n<3 months, and the interim PM should be chosen by elected MPs while the party is free to choose somebody else to campaign in the next election.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 12:25 PM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
No one else has made the joke about the lettuce: Did it vote for Romaine or Leaf?
posted by panhopticon at 12:34 PM on October 20, 2022 [41 favorites]
posted by panhopticon at 12:34 PM on October 20, 2022 [41 favorites]
"Liz Truss wears a necklace, therefore she must be into BDSM" is probably the stupidest thing I've ever heard, and I live in Essex and have heard quite a lot.
i mean, yeah it's gossipy speculation, but that necklace style (actually, in some cases, that exact design) comes up very often if you do a search for "discreet day collar" on google, etsy, amazon, ebay, captive collars, scarlet in chains, restrained grace...
also, bdsm is not exactly a rare kink, either? like, there's estimates of between a quarter to half of all adults having an interest in it.
posted by i used to be someone else at 12:44 PM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
i mean, yeah it's gossipy speculation, but that necklace style (actually, in some cases, that exact design) comes up very often if you do a search for "discreet day collar" on google, etsy, amazon, ebay, captive collars, scarlet in chains, restrained grace...
also, bdsm is not exactly a rare kink, either? like, there's estimates of between a quarter to half of all adults having an interest in it.
posted by i used to be someone else at 12:44 PM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
What happens at the pork markets stays at the pork markets.
posted by delfin at 12:49 PM on October 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by delfin at 12:49 PM on October 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
It's not a good day for the UK but this is a golden day for internet humorists and I'm going back up to read this thread now and enjoy it with you all.
posted by roolya_boolya at 12:56 PM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by roolya_boolya at 12:56 PM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
Liz Truss survived in Number 10 for 44 days, the same amount of time David Blaine spent suspended in a box above the River Thames.
Perhaps they could relocate the #10 apartment?
posted by Lanark at 12:58 PM on October 20, 2022
Perhaps they could relocate the #10 apartment?
posted by Lanark at 12:58 PM on October 20, 2022
Talk on Twitter that Johnson may run again. I despair.
Boris Johnson is clearly going to be the next leader because just look at this planet.
BoJo’s Lament (a poem):
There once was a gormless buffoon
Hair combed by a static-charged balloon
Unable to handle
A surfeit of scandal
His tenure as Premier went “Boom!”
(Too soon?)
posted by New Frontier at 1:04 PM on October 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
Boris Johnson is clearly going to be the next leader because just look at this planet.
BoJo’s Lament (a poem):
There once was a gormless buffoon
Hair combed by a static-charged balloon
Unable to handle
A surfeit of scandal
His tenure as Premier went “Boom!”
(Too soon?)
posted by New Frontier at 1:04 PM on October 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
i think it's pretty unlikely that truss's necklace is actually a bona fide day collar but it's very funny to me to think that it is and so i prefer to believe it's true
posted by dis_integration at 1:21 PM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 1:21 PM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
The fact that Wikipedia has to provide a disambiguation page for 2022 United Kingdom government crisis and split them into three articles is quite a thing....
2022 United Kingdom government crisis or crises may refer to:
- July 2022 United Kingdom government crisis, events culminating in the end of the Second Johnson ministry.
- September 2022 United Kingdom mini-budget, the Truss ministry's attempt to radically alter the British economy to solve the cost of living crisis.
- October 2022 United Kingdom government crisis, events in the aftermath of the September 2022 mini-budget, culminating in Truss' resignation.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 1:22 PM on October 20, 2022 [24 favorites]
2022 United Kingdom government crisis or crises may refer to:
- July 2022 United Kingdom government crisis, events culminating in the end of the Second Johnson ministry.
- September 2022 United Kingdom mini-budget, the Truss ministry's attempt to radically alter the British economy to solve the cost of living crisis.
- October 2022 United Kingdom government crisis, events in the aftermath of the September 2022 mini-budget, culminating in Truss' resignation.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 1:22 PM on October 20, 2022 [24 favorites]
Penny Mordaunt's pm4pm.com site talks about the ‘Pompey spirit’, which I read as the Pompeii spirit...and yeah running screaming from the pyroclastic flow of this disaster seemed about the right tone. And she still has her Alan B'stard pose photos up (albeit slightly cropped).
posted by inflatablekiwi at 1:34 PM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by inflatablekiwi at 1:34 PM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
talks about the ‘Pompey spirit’
Losing to Julius Caesar and bringing the republic to its end?
posted by clawsoon at 1:37 PM on October 20, 2022 [9 favorites]
Losing to Julius Caesar and bringing the republic to its end?
posted by clawsoon at 1:37 PM on October 20, 2022 [9 favorites]
I am torn between "making fun of Liz Truss for possibly being a sub makes me uncomfortable because it stigmatizes a lifestyle and also feels at least somewhat rooted in misogyny," and "making fun of Liz Truss for possibly being a sub is very funny and does not need to be examined any more deeply."
(Everyone I know in the BDSM community is making fun of Liz Truss for possibly being a sub, especially the submissive women. So on some level, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 1:38 PM on October 20, 2022 [25 favorites]
(Everyone I know in the BDSM community is making fun of Liz Truss for possibly being a sub, especially the submissive women. So on some level, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 1:38 PM on October 20, 2022 [25 favorites]
If she likes humiliation, I guess this has been a pretty good couple of months for her. Not kink shaming.
posted by seanmpuckett at 1:49 PM on October 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 1:49 PM on October 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
I'm just waiting for TrUss to announce that she will run in the leadership race to replace herself, I mean that's where all the constant U-turns seem to be leading us.
posted by Lanark at 1:57 PM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Lanark at 1:57 PM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
24 hours that undid liz truss
i mean this is what it takes to undo a country. it's like in the thick of it, but more deranged
posted by lalochezia at 2:01 PM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
i mean this is what it takes to undo a country. it's like in the thick of it, but more deranged
posted by lalochezia at 2:01 PM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Everyone I know in the BDSM community is making fun of Liz Truss for possibly being a sub
If I had to speculate, it's less making fun of her, and more just making fun. There is a difference between "haha oh wow, Liz Truss is one of us (and that's great/awkward/interesting)" and "haha oh wow, Liz Truss is one of us (and deserves our scorn)."
posted by explosion at 2:23 PM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
If I had to speculate, it's less making fun of her, and more just making fun. There is a difference between "haha oh wow, Liz Truss is one of us (and that's great/awkward/interesting)" and "haha oh wow, Liz Truss is one of us (and deserves our scorn)."
posted by explosion at 2:23 PM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
I am furious-- just livid-- that right there in the homeland of Lewis Carroll the various talking heads won't shut up about prime ministers and lettuce but are ignoring that the time has come to talk of cabbages and kings
posted by phooky at 2:31 PM on October 20, 2022 [69 favorites]
posted by phooky at 2:31 PM on October 20, 2022 [69 favorites]
It did feel to me like Truss was just cos-playing a PM
posted by sarble at 2:40 PM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by sarble at 2:40 PM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
I am torn between "making fun of Liz Truss for possibly being a sub makes me uncomfortable because it stigmatizes a lifestyle and also feels at least somewhat rooted in misogyny," and "making fun of Liz Truss for possibly being a sub is very funny and does not need to be examined any more deeply."
I feel about it about the same way I feel about it when people talk about Donald Trump's body. I wish people wouldn't.
At the same time, that feels like I might as well just be wishing that people were saints, and probably comes from an atavistic belief that "our side" somehow loses moral standing doing it. Given that on a good day I can name five separate and very broad "left" tendencies, many of which despise each other with more or less cordiality, I am not even sure what "side" I'd be thinking of. The "don't talk about things like people's sexuality in a salacious manner or bodies in a judgmental manner because it's probably not doing any good and could possibly perpetuate harm elsewhere" side, I guess.
On the gripping hand, the rationalizations for why it's fine, just, fair play, justly foul play, etc. sound as thin as any justifications for "why it's okay when we do it" ever are. Nobody's really been innovating in that area, so it doesn't feel like a topic that will produce much new to consider.
posted by mph at 3:11 PM on October 20, 2022 [10 favorites]
I feel about it about the same way I feel about it when people talk about Donald Trump's body. I wish people wouldn't.
At the same time, that feels like I might as well just be wishing that people were saints, and probably comes from an atavistic belief that "our side" somehow loses moral standing doing it. Given that on a good day I can name five separate and very broad "left" tendencies, many of which despise each other with more or less cordiality, I am not even sure what "side" I'd be thinking of. The "don't talk about things like people's sexuality in a salacious manner or bodies in a judgmental manner because it's probably not doing any good and could possibly perpetuate harm elsewhere" side, I guess.
On the gripping hand, the rationalizations for why it's fine, just, fair play, justly foul play, etc. sound as thin as any justifications for "why it's okay when we do it" ever are. Nobody's really been innovating in that area, so it doesn't feel like a topic that will produce much new to consider.
posted by mph at 3:11 PM on October 20, 2022 [10 favorites]
> Are the salad days over?Ho HO! Yes, you have entered the Slaad Days. Vote Xanxost for PM, who has promised to put Lord Buckethead in as Finance Minister. You've tried CE Tanar'ri (BoJo), LE Baatezu (May), and a NE avatar of Moander (Truss), so why not give CN Chaos a try? Xanxost, for a pot in every chicken, and an egg in every voter!
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 3:24 PM on October 20, 2022 [11 favorites]
Truss already sounds like some kind of rhyming slang
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:00 PM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:00 PM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Stunningly good edit of the Truss era* by Newsnight - get your volume on and watch...
*Can we call it an era? What's the minimum time requirement for an era?
posted by penguin pie at 4:13 PM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
*Can we call it an era? What's the minimum time requirement for an era?
posted by penguin pie at 4:13 PM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
so why not give CN Chaos a try? Xanxost
(Slightly Silly)
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:22 PM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
(Slightly Silly)
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:22 PM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
I already find the American politics confusing, but England and co. have me utterly lost with the amount of times they have sudden elections and throw out their governments and yet still end up with the same party of total mismanaging buffoons that they seem to not be able to get rid of? Like I watched The Crown and The Young Victoria and I have a slight idea of the throwing out of governments at a moment's notice or a hanky drop or whatever, but what's permanent vs. not continues to surprise.
Also this lettuce thing is making me laugh and laugh. Love it so much.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:38 PM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Also this lettuce thing is making me laugh and laugh. Love it so much.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:38 PM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
they don't have sudden elections at all. the elections are on a pretty well-known schedule.
posted by awfurby at 4:49 PM on October 20, 2022
posted by awfurby at 4:49 PM on October 20, 2022
But they *could* have a sudden election, couldn't they? Vote of no confidence and whatnot?
posted by clawsoon at 4:52 PM on October 20, 2022
posted by clawsoon at 4:52 PM on October 20, 2022
Boris hits 50 MPs after 9 hours. 50% of the threshold.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 4:54 PM on October 20, 2022
posted by thatwhichfalls at 4:54 PM on October 20, 2022
Good lord...
BoJo will save the Tories?
Huehuehuehue...
posted by Windopaene at 4:59 PM on October 20, 2022
BoJo will save the Tories?
Huehuehuehue...
posted by Windopaene at 4:59 PM on October 20, 2022
they don't have sudden elections at all. the elections are on a pretty well-known schedule.
Nope.
(Could we maybe have less of the uniformed assertions about what "they" do and more space for UK folks to discuss this thing?)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 5:25 PM on October 20, 2022 [18 favorites]
Nope.
(Could we maybe have less of the uniformed assertions about what "they" do and more space for UK folks to discuss this thing?)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 5:25 PM on October 20, 2022 [18 favorites]
> thatwhichfalls: "Boris hits 50 MPs after 9 hours. 50% of the threshold."
Ah shit, here we go again.
posted by mhum at 5:28 PM on October 20, 2022
Ah shit, here we go again.
posted by mhum at 5:28 PM on October 20, 2022
BoJo will save the Tories?
Boris: wrong for September, but tolerable for November.
so why not give CN Chaos a try? Xanxost
(Slightly Silly)
Can I just say this is the first time I have been on television?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:29 PM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
Boris: wrong for September, but tolerable for November.
so why not give CN Chaos a try? Xanxost
(Slightly Silly)
Can I just say this is the first time I have been on television?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:29 PM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
they don't have sudden elections at all. the elections are on a pretty well-known schedule.
Nope.
This 'Nope' link is to the Fixed-Term Parliaments Act 2011, which is no longer in effect as it was repealed by the Dissolution and Calling of Parliament Act 2022.
Under that law (currently in force), Parliament must be dissolved at most 5 years after its first meeting -- i.e. there must be a general election held. However, the prime minister retains the power to call a snap election prior to this five-year mark, so it is in fact currently the case that sudden elections are possible. (This is not what is happening now, but it is possible.)
posted by andrewesque at 5:30 PM on October 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
Nope.
This 'Nope' link is to the Fixed-Term Parliaments Act 2011, which is no longer in effect as it was repealed by the Dissolution and Calling of Parliament Act 2022.
Under that law (currently in force), Parliament must be dissolved at most 5 years after its first meeting -- i.e. there must be a general election held. However, the prime minister retains the power to call a snap election prior to this five-year mark, so it is in fact currently the case that sudden elections are possible. (This is not what is happening now, but it is possible.)
posted by andrewesque at 5:30 PM on October 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
Lettuce prey.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:32 PM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 5:32 PM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
Ho HO! Yes, you have entered the Slaad Days
I was really hoping to enter the Slaanesh Days instead. Is there some kind of exchange policy?
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 5:32 PM on October 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
I was really hoping to enter the Slaanesh Days instead. Is there some kind of exchange policy?
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 5:32 PM on October 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
However, the prime minister retains the power to call a snap election prior to this five-year mark, so it is in fact currently the case that sudden elections are possible.
I would also add that under the Fixed-Term Parliaments Act, "sudden" elections prior to the 5-year dissolution of Parliament were also possible -- just more difficult, as it required either a vote of no confidence in the House of Commons or an explicit vote of two-thirds of the House of Commons to hold such an election.
Such an election was held -- the 2017 general election called by Theresa May was such an election. It was called on 19 April 2017, only 2 years after the 2015 general election, and was held on 8 June.
posted by andrewesque at 5:37 PM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
I would also add that under the Fixed-Term Parliaments Act, "sudden" elections prior to the 5-year dissolution of Parliament were also possible -- just more difficult, as it required either a vote of no confidence in the House of Commons or an explicit vote of two-thirds of the House of Commons to hold such an election.
Such an election was held -- the 2017 general election called by Theresa May was such an election. It was called on 19 April 2017, only 2 years after the 2015 general election, and was held on 8 June.
posted by andrewesque at 5:37 PM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
Thank you, the "snap elections" thing is exactly what I was referring to.
Oh GOD, I shudder to think if that could happen in the US. OH GOD NO.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:41 PM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
Oh GOD, I shudder to think if that could happen in the US. OH GOD NO.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:41 PM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
BoJo will save the Tories?
To many of them, and especially to many of their voters, he did absolutely nothing that should have resulted in his resignation. He flouted lockdown rules that they feel shouldn't have existed in the first place. He protected colleagues accused of ethical lapses and sexual accusations, and so what? They're MPs. They're above that level of scrutiny. One should look after their own, and Boris did. He's a larger-than-life figure that annoys non-Tories by his very existence, and that alone qualifies him to lead, in their eyes. His coming back from disgrace and resuming his PM role would be a slap in the face to the notion that Tories have to follow rules that others do, and that's precisely what many of them want.
Do reasonable people agree that he should have resigned long before he actually did, and probably shouldn't have been PM in the first place? Yes. But we're not talking about reasonable people here, we're talking about Tories.
Besides... who else do they have?
posted by delfin at 5:51 PM on October 20, 2022 [11 favorites]
To many of them, and especially to many of their voters, he did absolutely nothing that should have resulted in his resignation. He flouted lockdown rules that they feel shouldn't have existed in the first place. He protected colleagues accused of ethical lapses and sexual accusations, and so what? They're MPs. They're above that level of scrutiny. One should look after their own, and Boris did. He's a larger-than-life figure that annoys non-Tories by his very existence, and that alone qualifies him to lead, in their eyes. His coming back from disgrace and resuming his PM role would be a slap in the face to the notion that Tories have to follow rules that others do, and that's precisely what many of them want.
Do reasonable people agree that he should have resigned long before he actually did, and probably shouldn't have been PM in the first place? Yes. But we're not talking about reasonable people here, we're talking about Tories.
Besides... who else do they have?
posted by delfin at 5:51 PM on October 20, 2022 [11 favorites]
Breaking: The lettuce will make a speech to the nation at 18:00
The best joke I have seen on this: Did the Lettuce vote Leaf or Romaine?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:53 PM on October 20, 2022 [8 favorites]
The best joke I have seen on this: Did the Lettuce vote Leaf or Romaine?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:53 PM on October 20, 2022 [8 favorites]
on no the joke has been made already, i am disgraced even faster than truss
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:55 PM on October 20, 2022 [33 favorites]
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:55 PM on October 20, 2022 [33 favorites]
The thing about cock rings you don't get from the name is that the whole frank and beans goes through the inner bit.
Which can make buying them very intimidating if you don't know that.
So I've heard.
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 5:58 PM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
Which can make buying them very intimidating if you don't know that.
So I've heard.
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 5:58 PM on October 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
the whole frank and beans
Beanie Weenies, please
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 7:08 PM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Beanie Weenies, please
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 7:08 PM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
but England and co. have me utterly lost with the amount of times they have sudden elections and throw out their governments and yet still end up with the same party of total mismanaging buffoons that they seem to not be able to get rid of?
You have to distinguish between elections for party leader, and a general election. The public only get to vote in a general election; they elect their local representative (MP) via FPTP, and that's it for up to 5 years. Nominally, an MP is a member of a political party - either of the 'big 2', tory and labour, or one of the smaller parties - the largest of which is the Scottish National Party, which only stands in Scottish seats.
After a general election, it comes down to who has a simple majority of MPs in the house; if one party alone has a majority, that party leader becomes Prime Minister, and appoints a cabinet of ministers to handle all the various roles of state., otherwise it's a coalition or partnership of some sort.
Thing is - the public aren't voting for the PM, or even the party - only their specific MP, even though they often base their vote on party leader. So if say, a party leader turns out to be a complete failure, the party can have a leadership election (the rules decided by an internal party committee), defenstrate that particular leader; and since the same party's MPs still hold a majority in Parliament, the next party leader then becomes PM by default (technically they get appointed by the King, but he's a royal-shaped rubber stamp). So Johnson, who led the Tories to a substantial general election victory (~70 seat majority) was forced out of the job of leader by his own ministers and MPs after one lie too many (and dear god, it was a *lot* of lies).
The tory MPs whittled the list of candidates down to 2, then the party members picked the winner - Truss. The root of her problem is that she was only supported by about 1/3 of MPs, but 57% of party members picked her, so away she went to become PM, appoint her own ministers, and carry on with the 70 seat majority she inherited from Johnson. But she's a hard-right economically illiterate moron with the warmth and charisma of a shop dummy, appointed only her direct supporters as Ministers, and proceeded to blow up the economy with a huge series of unfunded tax cuts mostly for the wealthy (which would supercharge already eyewatering inflation), and the markets decided it was insane, the value of Sterling crashed, and government borrowing got a lot more expensive in a hurry; and coincidentally nearly bankrupted a bunch of pensions due to a technical issue to do with the government debt they held. Mortgage companies realised interest rates were going to go way higher than previously expected to try and curb inflation, so they pulled all the deals and redid them about 2-3 points higher, adding 500-600 quid a month to the average mortgage bill (except those still on a fixed rate deal with some time left to run). Tory party approval ratings plummeted - given a majority of tory voters are homeowners - a couple of weeks of chaos as all the Tory MPs realise they're almost all going to lose their job at the eventual next general election, and given most didn't like Truss anyway, threatened to not vote for any of her legislation, and pushed to change stuff, and here we are where she's resigned before she was pushed - setting a new record for shortest serving British PM.
The winner of this next tory party leader election - which scarily could actually be Johnson again, since he still has some MP supporters, and the party membership wanted to keep him in the first place - will be PM number 3. Truss could have, or PM number 3 can call an early general election anyway - but doing so now, when they're about as popular as a shit sandwich, would be suicidal, and the only way the house of Commons (all MPs) can do it is with an overall majority - and that means a bunch of Tory MPs would have to vote to bring down the government of their own party when they're facing an electoral wipeout in a general election, which they ain't gonna do either, not least as they would then be kicked out of the tory party and would have to fight as an independant (and almost invariably lose even under normal circumstances, which these are definitely not).
Theresa May basically did a General Election early in 2017 because she thought she could get more MPs; she failed, but still was able to form a government, but needed the dinosaurs in the DUP to form a majority, leaving her basically stuck for 2 years trying to implement Brexit; but there was no outright majority in Parliament for ANY plan.
So May eventually got kicked out by her own party, Johnson took over as party leader and new PM, then called an early GE a few months later to 'get Brexit done' - which is how he won his stonking majority in 2019, because enough idiots believed his lies.
So realistically, if PM number 3 isn't able to soothe their pissed off MPs and get them to generally settle down and do what they're told, then probably the only option left would then be an early general election because they simply can't govern without the support of their own MPs to vote for stuff. But things have been so fucked up for the last 6 years since the Brexit vote, and getting increasingly so, it's hard to be certain about anything any more. We could quite possibly have 2 more years of this chaos yet; there doesn't HAVE to be general election until January 2025.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 7:18 PM on October 20, 2022 [36 favorites]
You have to distinguish between elections for party leader, and a general election. The public only get to vote in a general election; they elect their local representative (MP) via FPTP, and that's it for up to 5 years. Nominally, an MP is a member of a political party - either of the 'big 2', tory and labour, or one of the smaller parties - the largest of which is the Scottish National Party, which only stands in Scottish seats.
After a general election, it comes down to who has a simple majority of MPs in the house; if one party alone has a majority, that party leader becomes Prime Minister, and appoints a cabinet of ministers to handle all the various roles of state., otherwise it's a coalition or partnership of some sort.
Thing is - the public aren't voting for the PM, or even the party - only their specific MP, even though they often base their vote on party leader. So if say, a party leader turns out to be a complete failure, the party can have a leadership election (the rules decided by an internal party committee), defenstrate that particular leader; and since the same party's MPs still hold a majority in Parliament, the next party leader then becomes PM by default (technically they get appointed by the King, but he's a royal-shaped rubber stamp). So Johnson, who led the Tories to a substantial general election victory (~70 seat majority) was forced out of the job of leader by his own ministers and MPs after one lie too many (and dear god, it was a *lot* of lies).
The tory MPs whittled the list of candidates down to 2, then the party members picked the winner - Truss. The root of her problem is that she was only supported by about 1/3 of MPs, but 57% of party members picked her, so away she went to become PM, appoint her own ministers, and carry on with the 70 seat majority she inherited from Johnson. But she's a hard-right economically illiterate moron with the warmth and charisma of a shop dummy, appointed only her direct supporters as Ministers, and proceeded to blow up the economy with a huge series of unfunded tax cuts mostly for the wealthy (which would supercharge already eyewatering inflation), and the markets decided it was insane, the value of Sterling crashed, and government borrowing got a lot more expensive in a hurry; and coincidentally nearly bankrupted a bunch of pensions due to a technical issue to do with the government debt they held. Mortgage companies realised interest rates were going to go way higher than previously expected to try and curb inflation, so they pulled all the deals and redid them about 2-3 points higher, adding 500-600 quid a month to the average mortgage bill (except those still on a fixed rate deal with some time left to run). Tory party approval ratings plummeted - given a majority of tory voters are homeowners - a couple of weeks of chaos as all the Tory MPs realise they're almost all going to lose their job at the eventual next general election, and given most didn't like Truss anyway, threatened to not vote for any of her legislation, and pushed to change stuff, and here we are where she's resigned before she was pushed - setting a new record for shortest serving British PM.
The winner of this next tory party leader election - which scarily could actually be Johnson again, since he still has some MP supporters, and the party membership wanted to keep him in the first place - will be PM number 3. Truss could have, or PM number 3 can call an early general election anyway - but doing so now, when they're about as popular as a shit sandwich, would be suicidal, and the only way the house of Commons (all MPs) can do it is with an overall majority - and that means a bunch of Tory MPs would have to vote to bring down the government of their own party when they're facing an electoral wipeout in a general election, which they ain't gonna do either, not least as they would then be kicked out of the tory party and would have to fight as an independant (and almost invariably lose even under normal circumstances, which these are definitely not).
Theresa May basically did a General Election early in 2017 because she thought she could get more MPs; she failed, but still was able to form a government, but needed the dinosaurs in the DUP to form a majority, leaving her basically stuck for 2 years trying to implement Brexit; but there was no outright majority in Parliament for ANY plan.
So May eventually got kicked out by her own party, Johnson took over as party leader and new PM, then called an early GE a few months later to 'get Brexit done' - which is how he won his stonking majority in 2019, because enough idiots believed his lies.
So realistically, if PM number 3 isn't able to soothe their pissed off MPs and get them to generally settle down and do what they're told, then probably the only option left would then be an early general election because they simply can't govern without the support of their own MPs to vote for stuff. But things have been so fucked up for the last 6 years since the Brexit vote, and getting increasingly so, it's hard to be certain about anything any more. We could quite possibly have 2 more years of this chaos yet; there doesn't HAVE to be general election until January 2025.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 7:18 PM on October 20, 2022 [36 favorites]
To be fair, despite living here for my entire adult life, studying politics at university, closely following it, and having correctly predicted the broad outcome of the elections in the past decade, it still baffles me sometimes that the Tories have been able to call general elections and remain in power as many times as they have.
posted by Dysk at 7:27 PM on October 20, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by Dysk at 7:27 PM on October 20, 2022 [11 favorites]
Stunningly good edit of the Truss era* by Newsnight - get your volume on and watch...
That's good, but the Channel 4 version is even better because it provides yet another way for Truss to do herself in by using her own legit favourite song against her. A great job of matching lyrics and images.
posted by Superilla at 7:29 PM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
That's good, but the Channel 4 version is even better because it provides yet another way for Truss to do herself in by using her own legit favourite song against her. A great job of matching lyrics and images.
posted by Superilla at 7:29 PM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
it still baffles me sometimes that the Tories have been able to call general elections and remain in power as many times as they have.
English voters are gullible idiots who will guzzle down the shite of the Daily Mail* etc and ask for seconds. Plus pensioners and the rich, who know the tory party will always look out for them. The tories only lose a GE when they *really* fuck up, repeatedly, because they have some sort of magical brand of being the party of economic competence that seems to inevitably defy the actual results.
I used to be less cynical, but the last 6 years has conclusively proved a lot of people in this country are absolute fucking morons.
* you'd think singing Truss' praises and plastering the front page with "At last! A TRUE tory budget" for the utterly disastrous mini budget might have made some of their readers realise how full of shit they are, but it doesn't appear so.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 7:37 PM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
English voters are gullible idiots who will guzzle down the shite of the Daily Mail* etc and ask for seconds. Plus pensioners and the rich, who know the tory party will always look out for them. The tories only lose a GE when they *really* fuck up, repeatedly, because they have some sort of magical brand of being the party of economic competence that seems to inevitably defy the actual results.
I used to be less cynical, but the last 6 years has conclusively proved a lot of people in this country are absolute fucking morons.
* you'd think singing Truss' praises and plastering the front page with "At last! A TRUE tory budget" for the utterly disastrous mini budget might have made some of their readers realise how full of shit they are, but it doesn't appear so.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 7:37 PM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
It works for rich people
This particular escapade didn't even particularly work for rich people, which I assume is why she's been booted. The markets threw a wobbly. The whole cut-taxes thing went from a totally rational idea (for the rich) and turned into a free-floating ideology of its own, with Truss and her fellow-travelers and benefactors seeming to actually believe in it, consequences to themselves be damned.
I'm waiting for the story to come out that this time around the backroom bankers and Establishment powers that be put Truss in and simultaneously shorted everything in the British economy they could, knowing it would be a complete clusterfuck to do this at this time and place.
posted by Rumple at 7:40 PM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
This particular escapade didn't even particularly work for rich people, which I assume is why she's been booted. The markets threw a wobbly. The whole cut-taxes thing went from a totally rational idea (for the rich) and turned into a free-floating ideology of its own, with Truss and her fellow-travelers and benefactors seeming to actually believe in it, consequences to themselves be damned.
I'm waiting for the story to come out that this time around the backroom bankers and Establishment powers that be put Truss in and simultaneously shorted everything in the British economy they could, knowing it would be a complete clusterfuck to do this at this time and place.
posted by Rumple at 7:40 PM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
the Slaad Days
I think cstross gets final say on the extent of slaadi influence on UK politics.
posted by zamboni at 7:52 PM on October 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
I think cstross gets final say on the extent of slaadi influence on UK politics.
posted by zamboni at 7:52 PM on October 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
it still baffles me sometimes that the Tories have been able to call general elections and remain in power as many times as they have.
It's kind of like in the US, and in many other places; there are plenty of people receptive to the message that they represent their country's true spirit, the Other is to blame for everything that's wrong, and if they just vote for the conservatives everything will magically revert to the old days of beer and privilege.
And if they don't, the wrong lizard might get in.
posted by delfin at 8:03 PM on October 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
It's kind of like in the US, and in many other places; there are plenty of people receptive to the message that they represent their country's true spirit, the Other is to blame for everything that's wrong, and if they just vote for the conservatives everything will magically revert to the old days of beer and privilege.
And if they don't, the wrong lizard might get in.
posted by delfin at 8:03 PM on October 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
More postings from the Commonwealth:
Fatima Said: As an Arab, I have to ask: Is Britain ready for democracy?
The rest of the replies are just riffs of 'when the shoe's on the other foot':
- Here in Africa, we can only watch as tensions rise and political unrest grows. As winter approaches in the UK, what lies ahead for this troubled island nation?
- I think Britain needs to be put under some sort of internationally approved mandate status until it is ready to govern itself.
- To simplify management of the area, we should divide it into separate political entities whose boundaries ignore any historical, cultural, & religious context. (attached image map with a very interesting proposed cross section /understatement)
- We have to accept that These People have a particular culture and set of values
posted by cendawanita at 8:47 PM on October 20, 2022 [20 favorites]
Fatima Said: As an Arab, I have to ask: Is Britain ready for democracy?
The rest of the replies are just riffs of 'when the shoe's on the other foot':
- Here in Africa, we can only watch as tensions rise and political unrest grows. As winter approaches in the UK, what lies ahead for this troubled island nation?
- I think Britain needs to be put under some sort of internationally approved mandate status until it is ready to govern itself.
- To simplify management of the area, we should divide it into separate political entities whose boundaries ignore any historical, cultural, & religious context. (attached image map with a very interesting proposed cross section /understatement)
- We have to accept that These People have a particular culture and set of values
posted by cendawanita at 8:47 PM on October 20, 2022 [20 favorites]
Oh and a reply to Scaramucci's count: The "Scaramucci" is an American unit of measure.
The British equivalent is the "Lady Jane Grey", who was Queen of England for nine days but then overthrown by Henry VIII's daughter, Mary Tudor. So, a Lady Jane Grey is .9 of a Scaramucci.
Liz Truss lasted 4.9 Lady Jane Greys.
posted by cendawanita at 8:51 PM on October 20, 2022 [11 favorites]
The British equivalent is the "Lady Jane Grey", who was Queen of England for nine days but then overthrown by Henry VIII's daughter, Mary Tudor. So, a Lady Jane Grey is .9 of a Scaramucci.
Liz Truss lasted 4.9 Lady Jane Greys.
posted by cendawanita at 8:51 PM on October 20, 2022 [11 favorites]
Everyone I know in the BDSM community is making fun of Liz Truss for possibly being a sub
Wasn’t the whole thing started by people who clearly have some familiarity with BDSM? I don’t think someone who didn’t would notice “hey that necklace looks a lot like the kind people wear to represent a collar.”
posted by atoxyl at 9:11 PM on October 20, 2022
Wasn’t the whole thing started by people who clearly have some familiarity with BDSM? I don’t think someone who didn’t would notice “hey that necklace looks a lot like the kind people wear to represent a collar.”
posted by atoxyl at 9:11 PM on October 20, 2022
So the rules seem to be:
Presumably they're hoping the bonkers-right vote will be split and Sunak will be the only one on 100 so the Conservative Party members don't get a vote. Could easily end up with Sunak versus a loony going to a vote by the most online members of the Conservative Party though.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 9:27 PM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Under party rules, leadership hopefuls will need to secure the support of 100 MPs to enter the contest.ConservativeHome currently has Johnson on 19 supporters, Penny Mordaunt on 11, Rishi Sunak on 35.
There are 357 Conservative MPs so that means a maximum of three candidates can stand.
Candidate nominations will close at 14:00 BST on Monday and the first ballot of MPs will be held that day between 15:30 and 17:30.
A first ballot will be held among MPs and the person with the lowest number of votes will be eliminated, if there are three candidates.
If a second ballot is needed, MPs will be able to signal who they prefer through an indicative vote.
And if both candidates opt to stay in the race, the final decision will go to party members via an online vote.
Presumably they're hoping the bonkers-right vote will be split and Sunak will be the only one on 100 so the Conservative Party members don't get a vote. Could easily end up with Sunak versus a loony going to a vote by the most online members of the Conservative Party though.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 9:27 PM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
I didn't actually need British politics explaining to me, thank you, it's just that I cannot empathise at all with a position even while I am aware it exists.
posted by Dysk at 9:29 PM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Dysk at 9:29 PM on October 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
it still baffles me sometimes that the Tories have been able to call general elections and remain in power as many times as they have
That sinking feeling that comes from perceiving just how many of one's compatriots are total rubes and/or completely politically disengaged is just awful.
I got what should have been an inoculating dose of that on finding out that a Newspoll put Australian public support for John Howard's "anti-terrorism" laws at about two in three in the week after they were first introduced. This was the tranche of legislation that substantially expanded the power of Australia's security services to hold "terrorist suspects" without charge, in secret, for weeks at a stretch without any meaningful oversight, and made it a criminal offence to reveal that this had happened, either to oneself or to anybody else.
But it wasn't an inoculating dose. It still feels awful every single time I watch a democracy, whether it be mine or anybody else's, allowing itself to be brought undone by fascists and hucksters and I cannot help but resent the apparently wilful cluelessness that lets it happen.
Every politically aware anti-conservatist citizen of the UK right now has all my sympathy. The rest of them have the Government they deserve.
posted by flabdablet at 10:02 PM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
That sinking feeling that comes from perceiving just how many of one's compatriots are total rubes and/or completely politically disengaged is just awful.
I got what should have been an inoculating dose of that on finding out that a Newspoll put Australian public support for John Howard's "anti-terrorism" laws at about two in three in the week after they were first introduced. This was the tranche of legislation that substantially expanded the power of Australia's security services to hold "terrorist suspects" without charge, in secret, for weeks at a stretch without any meaningful oversight, and made it a criminal offence to reveal that this had happened, either to oneself or to anybody else.
But it wasn't an inoculating dose. It still feels awful every single time I watch a democracy, whether it be mine or anybody else's, allowing itself to be brought undone by fascists and hucksters and I cannot help but resent the apparently wilful cluelessness that lets it happen.
Every politically aware anti-conservatist citizen of the UK right now has all my sympathy. The rest of them have the Government they deserve.
posted by flabdablet at 10:02 PM on October 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
Best tweet of the day "Britain has Eton itself alive."
posted by mbo at 10:32 PM on October 20, 2022 [13 favorites]
posted by mbo at 10:32 PM on October 20, 2022 [13 favorites]
I didn't actually need British politics explaining to me, thank you, it's just that I cannot empathise at all with a position even while I am aware it exists.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to explain (I know you definitely don't need it!), I was just trying to express my frustration at just what the hell happened to us. We used to be known as a stable, fairly ordinary, sometimes canny country. Our representatives in the EU were apparently rather expert at splitting the baby and finding solutions that disparate factions could live with - consumate negotiators, diplomats. Just smoothly capable.
And to find out that in fact, this ever worsening desperately impoverishing chaos IS what we apparently collectively deserve because so many people willingly vote for it, over and over, just to stick one in the eye of foreigners, or they just can't even spot the most obvious lies... It hurt. Still hurts.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 11:28 PM on October 20, 2022 [18 favorites]
Sorry, I wasn't trying to explain (I know you definitely don't need it!), I was just trying to express my frustration at just what the hell happened to us. We used to be known as a stable, fairly ordinary, sometimes canny country. Our representatives in the EU were apparently rather expert at splitting the baby and finding solutions that disparate factions could live with - consumate negotiators, diplomats. Just smoothly capable.
And to find out that in fact, this ever worsening desperately impoverishing chaos IS what we apparently collectively deserve because so many people willingly vote for it, over and over, just to stick one in the eye of foreigners, or they just can't even spot the most obvious lies... It hurt. Still hurts.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 11:28 PM on October 20, 2022 [18 favorites]
you'd think singing Truss' praises and plastering the front page with "At last! A TRUE tory budget"
I mean, the headline wasn’t inaccurate.
posted by Rumple at 11:38 PM on October 20, 2022
I mean, the headline wasn’t inaccurate.
posted by Rumple at 11:38 PM on October 20, 2022
The "TRUE Tory budget" part was accurate. The implication of "At last!" - that this was in any way some kind of relief - not so much.
posted by flabdablet at 11:50 PM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by flabdablet at 11:50 PM on October 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Do they make up a new leadership selection process each time? Can someone please explain to me why the contest by which Truss became PM took longer than her tenure as PM, but they reckon they'll have a new one chosen by next week?
posted by pianissimo at 12:42 AM on October 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by pianissimo at 12:42 AM on October 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
In addition to the loose talk about Liz Truss' necklace, there also this Popbitch blind item out there. Which is NSFW as well as probably NSFB.
posted by chavenet at 12:49 AM on October 21, 2022
posted by chavenet at 12:49 AM on October 21, 2022
Can someone please explain to me why the contest by which Truss became PM took longer than her tenure as PM, but they reckon they'll have a new one chosen by next week?
It's basically because the UK political system has been so completely broken by a biased media and an outdated, unfair voting system that it gives the Tory party such unbreakable majorities at elections that they can effectively just make up the rules as they go along.
posted by tomsk at 12:51 AM on October 21, 2022 [5 favorites]
It's basically because the UK political system has been so completely broken by a biased media and an outdated, unfair voting system that it gives the Tory party such unbreakable majorities at elections that they can effectively just make up the rules as they go along.
posted by tomsk at 12:51 AM on October 21, 2022 [5 favorites]
Do they make up a new leadership selection process each time?
Basically, yes. The procedure is decided by the 1922 Committee and while there's usually the same basic process (2 stages), the exact rules are announced each time.
posted by scorbet at 12:52 AM on October 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
Basically, yes. The procedure is decided by the 1922 Committee and while there's usually the same basic process (2 stages), the exact rules are announced each time.
posted by scorbet at 12:52 AM on October 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
ineedathingtosharethingsto on tumblr:
"average government has one collapse a year” factoid actualy just statistical error. Tory Georg, who lives in cave & resigns over 10,000 mps each day, is an outlier and should not have been countedposted by sebastienbailard at 1:10 AM on October 21, 2022 [12 favorites]
Everyone I know in the BDSM community is making fun of Liz Truss for possibly being a sub
This whole thing has been rather overspun and tossed due to a very simple misunderstanding about the differences between a sub and a salad.
posted by loquacious at 1:18 AM on October 21, 2022 [12 favorites]
This whole thing has been rather overspun and tossed due to a very simple misunderstanding about the differences between a sub and a salad.
posted by loquacious at 1:18 AM on October 21, 2022 [12 favorites]
Also this all explains the very strange sandwich I had for lunch. I was expecting the wilted lettuce but I definitely was not expecting the lukewarm Boris and soggy Thatcherism.
posted by loquacious at 1:19 AM on October 21, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by loquacious at 1:19 AM on October 21, 2022 [8 favorites]
Do they make up a new leadership selection process each time? Can someone please explain to me why the contest by which Truss became PM took longer than her tenure as PM, but they reckon they'll have a new one chosen by next week?
They do have a general process laid out in the party constitution, with the specific details decided by the 1922 committee (backbench tory MPs) executive. Theresa May, Boris Johnson and Liz Truss' elections all followed that process. In May's case, the 2nd finalist (Leadsom) pulled out due to a really stupid comment, so it didn't get as far as the party membership. Johnson vs Hunt went to the members, and Johnson won, with a convincing margin in both MPs and the membership. Truss followed a similar pattern, with MPs whittling down an initial field of 8 to the final 2, then a bunch of hustings and postal ballot where Truss beat Sunak.
In this particular case, due to the desire to get this settled much quicker than usual, they've raised the threshold for even entering the contest much higher than normal to being nominated by 100 MPs (a bit under 1/3 of all tory MPs), so rather than have multiple votes of MPs narrowing a wide field one by one, there can only be max 3 candidates, or possibly only 1. (if we get 0 reaching the threshold, it's probably Squid Game time). If it's 3, the MPs will vote, and the lowest gets eliminated as normal. The final 2 will then receive another vote - a new thing - so their support totals is explicit for the members. That then goes to the membership as per usual, but this time it will be a fast online vote instead of 6 weeks of hustings etc.
For those that are unaware, anyone can pay to be a tory party member, and doesn't have to be UK resident or even a citizen, though only those already members can participate when a leadership election happens. The number of and actual membership list is secret, but is thought to be to be about 180,000 people, or 0.2% of the population, ish. Number of Russians is unknown...
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 1:21 AM on October 21, 2022 [10 favorites]
They do have a general process laid out in the party constitution, with the specific details decided by the 1922 committee (backbench tory MPs) executive. Theresa May, Boris Johnson and Liz Truss' elections all followed that process. In May's case, the 2nd finalist (Leadsom) pulled out due to a really stupid comment, so it didn't get as far as the party membership. Johnson vs Hunt went to the members, and Johnson won, with a convincing margin in both MPs and the membership. Truss followed a similar pattern, with MPs whittling down an initial field of 8 to the final 2, then a bunch of hustings and postal ballot where Truss beat Sunak.
In this particular case, due to the desire to get this settled much quicker than usual, they've raised the threshold for even entering the contest much higher than normal to being nominated by 100 MPs (a bit under 1/3 of all tory MPs), so rather than have multiple votes of MPs narrowing a wide field one by one, there can only be max 3 candidates, or possibly only 1. (if we get 0 reaching the threshold, it's probably Squid Game time). If it's 3, the MPs will vote, and the lowest gets eliminated as normal. The final 2 will then receive another vote - a new thing - so their support totals is explicit for the members. That then goes to the membership as per usual, but this time it will be a fast online vote instead of 6 weeks of hustings etc.
For those that are unaware, anyone can pay to be a tory party member, and doesn't have to be UK resident or even a citizen, though only those already members can participate when a leadership election happens. The number of and actual membership list is secret, but is thought to be to be about 180,000 people, or 0.2% of the population, ish. Number of Russians is unknown...
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 1:21 AM on October 21, 2022 [10 favorites]
Liz Truss lasted 4.9 Lady Jane Greys.
Technically true - but if we discount the proportionally massive periods of her premiership which were spent in either royal mourning or the party conference season: we are left with 12 days of actual parliamentary time. Her entire premiership was considerably shorter than the nine interminable weeks the Tories spent choosing her as a candidate.
Lady Jane, like Truss, maintained at the end "I do wash my hands thereof in innocence" - but tofu eating Guardian readers had yet to be invented, so she was beheaded at this point.
posted by rongorongo at 1:34 AM on October 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
Technically true - but if we discount the proportionally massive periods of her premiership which were spent in either royal mourning or the party conference season: we are left with 12 days of actual parliamentary time. Her entire premiership was considerably shorter than the nine interminable weeks the Tories spent choosing her as a candidate.
Lady Jane, like Truss, maintained at the end "I do wash my hands thereof in innocence" - but tofu eating Guardian readers had yet to be invented, so she was beheaded at this point.
posted by rongorongo at 1:34 AM on October 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
Can someone please explain to me why the contest by which Truss became PM took longer than her tenure as PM, but they reckon they'll have a new one chosen by next week?
Johnson announced his resignation shortly before the summer break, so that lengthened the process significantly there. Couldn't possibly do anything to disrupt Tory MPs' holidays after all.
There's, ah, a bit more of a sense of urgency this time, due to the optics.
posted by Dysk at 3:13 AM on October 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
Johnson announced his resignation shortly before the summer break, so that lengthened the process significantly there. Couldn't possibly do anything to disrupt Tory MPs' holidays after all.
There's, ah, a bit more of a sense of urgency this time, due to the optics.
posted by Dysk at 3:13 AM on October 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
I feel about it about the same way I feel about it when people talk about Donald Trump's body. I wish people wouldn't.
At the same time, that feels like I might as well just be wishing that people were saints, and probably comes from an atavistic belief that "our side" somehow loses moral standing doing it. Given that on a good day I can name five separate and very broad "left" tendencies, many of which despise each other with more or less cordiality, I am not even sure what "side" I'd be thinking of. The "don't talk about things like people's sexuality in a salacious manner or bodies in a judgmental manner because it's probably not doing any good and could possibly perpetuate harm elsewhere" side, I guess.
I think the key element of the humour in this is not the unfitness of Trump or the submissiveness of Truss but the fact they attempt to project themselves as 180 degrees from their actual realities. It's The Big Lie projected onto themselves personally and it is important to laugh at the obviousness of the lie.
Donald Trump is not the perfect specimen of manly manhood that he attempts to claim he is. Liz Truss is not the Iron Lady II bending a nation to her will. They are the complete opposites of their self-images and that is hilarious and also frightening when their followers participate in the delusion. That ridiculousness mixed with terror is where the best dark English mocking humour resides.
posted by srboisvert at 3:58 AM on October 21, 2022 [15 favorites]
At the same time, that feels like I might as well just be wishing that people were saints, and probably comes from an atavistic belief that "our side" somehow loses moral standing doing it. Given that on a good day I can name five separate and very broad "left" tendencies, many of which despise each other with more or less cordiality, I am not even sure what "side" I'd be thinking of. The "don't talk about things like people's sexuality in a salacious manner or bodies in a judgmental manner because it's probably not doing any good and could possibly perpetuate harm elsewhere" side, I guess.
I think the key element of the humour in this is not the unfitness of Trump or the submissiveness of Truss but the fact they attempt to project themselves as 180 degrees from their actual realities. It's The Big Lie projected onto themselves personally and it is important to laugh at the obviousness of the lie.
Donald Trump is not the perfect specimen of manly manhood that he attempts to claim he is. Liz Truss is not the Iron Lady II bending a nation to her will. They are the complete opposites of their self-images and that is hilarious and also frightening when their followers participate in the delusion. That ridiculousness mixed with terror is where the best dark English mocking humour resides.
posted by srboisvert at 3:58 AM on October 21, 2022 [15 favorites]
While people are distracted by Johnson's Caribbean holiday (Parliament is not in recess and he is a sitting MP by the way) it looks like the Retained EU Law Bill is going forward:
Draconian legislation to sweep away 47 years of laws in less than one year to get its second reading on Tuesday, Penny Mordaunt confirmed today.
Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill publications will get rid of 2,400 laws unless someone actively seeks to save them...
They include workers rights, consumer law, health law, transport law, environment law, pension rights, holiday rights etc etc
posted by vacapinta at 5:01 AM on October 21, 2022 [11 favorites]
Draconian legislation to sweep away 47 years of laws in less than one year to get its second reading on Tuesday, Penny Mordaunt confirmed today.
Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill publications will get rid of 2,400 laws unless someone actively seeks to save them...
They include workers rights, consumer law, health law, transport law, environment law, pension rights, holiday rights etc etc
posted by vacapinta at 5:01 AM on October 21, 2022 [11 favorites]
(Obnoxious ultra-rightwinger) Guido Fawkes is maintaining a spreadsheet of MPs support which currently has Rishi Sunak on 62, Boris Johnson on 59, Penny Mordaunt on 20.
On those percentages Rishi Sunak and Boris Johnson would both be over the 100 threshold and it would go to a vote between them to the Tory membership.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 5:19 AM on October 21, 2022
On those percentages Rishi Sunak and Boris Johnson would both be over the 100 threshold and it would go to a vote between them to the Tory membership.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 5:19 AM on October 21, 2022
James O'Brien rages at the damage done by the post-Brexit Conservative Party | LBC
Governance is dead. It's fucking dead and the electorate have killed it.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 5:33 AM on October 21, 2022 [6 favorites]
Governance is dead. It's fucking dead and the electorate have killed it.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 5:33 AM on October 21, 2022 [6 favorites]
interogative mood: Everything you want to know about the blood export business.
It answers all questions but one: Why the UK?
(It also fails to address whether aristocratic blue blood increases the value of UK exports.)
posted by clawsoon at 5:55 AM on October 21, 2022
It answers all questions but one: Why the UK?
(It also fails to address whether aristocratic blue blood increases the value of UK exports.)
posted by clawsoon at 5:55 AM on October 21, 2022
Probably a dumb question but: so obviously Truss' policies are dogshit and Reaganomics is bullshit. But I'm seeing investors/"the markets" being treated like the weather. I don't get why people getting nervous should cause all this economic turmoil. Am I crazy, here?
posted by pelvicsorcery at 6:09 AM on October 21, 2022
posted by pelvicsorcery at 6:09 AM on October 21, 2022
On those percentages Rishi Sunak and Boris Johnson would both be over the 100 threshold and it would go to a vote between them to the Tory membership.
What's that noise called that sounds somewhere between a wail, a sob, and a cry of rage? Because I just inadvertently emitted it.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 6:19 AM on October 21, 2022 [7 favorites]
What's that noise called that sounds somewhere between a wail, a sob, and a cry of rage? Because I just inadvertently emitted it.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 6:19 AM on October 21, 2022 [7 favorites]
Everything everywhere is falling apart so much faster than I expected.
posted by aramaic at 7:06 AM on October 21, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by aramaic at 7:06 AM on October 21, 2022 [10 favorites]
It's a Tory bagel with everything
posted by flabdablet at 7:28 AM on October 21, 2022
posted by flabdablet at 7:28 AM on October 21, 2022
I hadn't even thought about this but apparently Liz Truss is working on her resignation honours list.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 7:29 AM on October 21, 2022
posted by TheophileEscargot at 7:29 AM on October 21, 2022
I'm seeing investors/"the markets" being treated like the weather. I don't get why people getting nervous should cause all this economic turmoil. Am I crazy, here?
My extremely layman understanding is that buyers for British government debt started demanding higher yields, because Truss looked to be planning to abruptly ramp up borrowing, making the debt look riskier. This flowed down to interest rates on mortgages leaping by entire percentage points. Unlike the US, UK mortgages only run for 10 years or so, so people with mortgages that are running out are facing their next mortgage being much more expensive than they were expecting. So there was a direct line from one to the other, with nothing inbetween to soften or disguise the cause-and-effect. These homeowners are the Tory base, so.
Basically, government debt isn't the same as other markets and when it starts to get (conservatively) a bit weird (because people are nervous!), the impacts are transmitted near-instantaneously around the rest of the economy.
On those percentages Rishi Sunak and Boris Johnson would both be over the 100 threshold and it would go to a vote between them to the Tory membership.
imho if the Tory party ceases to exist in the next six months, reappointing Boris Johnson will have been the proximate cause.
posted by BungaDunga at 7:39 AM on October 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
My extremely layman understanding is that buyers for British government debt started demanding higher yields, because Truss looked to be planning to abruptly ramp up borrowing, making the debt look riskier. This flowed down to interest rates on mortgages leaping by entire percentage points. Unlike the US, UK mortgages only run for 10 years or so, so people with mortgages that are running out are facing their next mortgage being much more expensive than they were expecting. So there was a direct line from one to the other, with nothing inbetween to soften or disguise the cause-and-effect. These homeowners are the Tory base, so.
Basically, government debt isn't the same as other markets and when it starts to get (conservatively) a bit weird (because people are nervous!), the impacts are transmitted near-instantaneously around the rest of the economy.
On those percentages Rishi Sunak and Boris Johnson would both be over the 100 threshold and it would go to a vote between them to the Tory membership.
imho if the Tory party ceases to exist in the next six months, reappointing Boris Johnson will have been the proximate cause.
posted by BungaDunga at 7:39 AM on October 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
UK mortgages only run for 10 years or so
Worse than that. Fixes are typically 2, 3 or 5 years.
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 7:53 AM on October 21, 2022 [8 favorites]
Worse than that. Fixes are typically 2, 3 or 5 years.
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 7:53 AM on October 21, 2022 [8 favorites]
Seems like the smartest thing for the Tories be to install a sacrificial lamb, call a general election, get stomped, spend the next years howling at Starmer for all the problems they caused themselves, and sweep back into power in 2027.
Obvs I'm under no illusion that they'll do this.
posted by saturday_morning at 7:55 AM on October 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
Obvs I'm under no illusion that they'll do this.
posted by saturday_morning at 7:55 AM on October 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
They're not calling an election. Theses are like the criminals that crash the car, but it's not over! The chase keeps going with sparks flying off the rims and the engine on fire.
posted by adept256 at 8:18 AM on October 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by adept256 at 8:18 AM on October 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
Borris is going to do a Gandalf, isn’t he? I return to you now at the turn of the tide, and flush with a ton of speaking fees cash from my recent jolly to Colorado…. I am now Gandalf the shit-stained.
I wonder how many days in before Carrie will feel the need to redecorate the flat? They may have picked up some design ideas down in the Caribbean.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 8:23 AM on October 21, 2022
I wonder how many days in before Carrie will feel the need to redecorate the flat? They may have picked up some design ideas down in the Caribbean.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 8:23 AM on October 21, 2022
The Plan Is To Make You Permanently Poorer
posted by flabdablet at 8:25 AM on October 21, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 8:25 AM on October 21, 2022 [11 favorites]
Leadership changes will do nothing to address what the Tory party has become.
The right has gotten too high off their own propaganda supply and now the UK is in the crash comedown phase and hoping for a rehab caretaker but all they have for support are either dealers or junkies.
posted by srboisvert at 8:34 AM on October 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
The right has gotten too high off their own propaganda supply and now the UK is in the crash comedown phase and hoping for a rehab caretaker but all they have for support are either dealers or junkies.
posted by srboisvert at 8:34 AM on October 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
Worse than that. Fixes are typically 2, 3 or 5 years
And 2 year fixes are the most common. So, many of the owner-occupiers that felt the need to move up to a larger property as a result of the pandemic lockdowns, buoyed up by cheap loan payments due to the Bank of England base rate being a super low 0.1% in 2020 (so mortgage interest rates of about 2% or less), are all coming to the end of their fixed interest rate period about... now.
And whether you just switch to the variable-rate, or re-mortgage with a new fixed rate, you're paying around 6.5% interest now. And those rates obviously also feed through via buy-to-let mortgages to renters. or in other words, if you thought food inflation being at 15% and energy prices doubling in a year was bad enough, try paying for a roof over your head when it's just jumped from 30% of average take home pay to 50%.
THEN you add on that property prices are expected to drop around 15-20% due to the looming recession, job losses and drop in demand due to the mortgage hikes, and that's a lot of people stuck in soon to be negative-equity homes, with high risk of job losses, and eye-watering repayments.
Even though the tax cuts that precipitated the crisis have mostly been U-turned on, the uncertainty and chaos means the damage is staying put so far.
And a lot of those people are tory voters. But clearly, in a brown trousers moment for Tory MPs, the obvious answer is the lying convict former PM Mr Johnson. for FUCKS sake, if you made this shit up nobody would believe you.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 8:45 AM on October 21, 2022 [14 favorites]
And 2 year fixes are the most common. So, many of the owner-occupiers that felt the need to move up to a larger property as a result of the pandemic lockdowns, buoyed up by cheap loan payments due to the Bank of England base rate being a super low 0.1% in 2020 (so mortgage interest rates of about 2% or less), are all coming to the end of their fixed interest rate period about... now.
And whether you just switch to the variable-rate, or re-mortgage with a new fixed rate, you're paying around 6.5% interest now. And those rates obviously also feed through via buy-to-let mortgages to renters. or in other words, if you thought food inflation being at 15% and energy prices doubling in a year was bad enough, try paying for a roof over your head when it's just jumped from 30% of average take home pay to 50%.
THEN you add on that property prices are expected to drop around 15-20% due to the looming recession, job losses and drop in demand due to the mortgage hikes, and that's a lot of people stuck in soon to be negative-equity homes, with high risk of job losses, and eye-watering repayments.
Even though the tax cuts that precipitated the crisis have mostly been U-turned on, the uncertainty and chaos means the damage is staying put so far.
And a lot of those people are tory voters. But clearly, in a brown trousers moment for Tory MPs, the obvious answer is the lying convict former PM Mr Johnson. for FUCKS sake, if you made this shit up nobody would believe you.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 8:45 AM on October 21, 2022 [14 favorites]
On those percentages Rishi Sunak and Boris Johnson would both be over the 100 threshold and it would go to a vote between them to the Tory membership.
And if it goes to that, Johnson will dance his way back into Number 10 with ease.
It's not even a matter of which of them is less likely to disgrace the party further, let alone which is better suited for the task at hand. Boris is a symbol, the man who Got Brexit Done, the rebel thumbing his nose at anyone who tries to enforce standards of behavior or rules or principles or ethics. An ungovernable governor. And that is what his base wants -- a repudiation of the idea that outsiders' opinions matter and a rude gesture to anyone who thinks anything's more important than keeping their passports blue. They don't care what he did wrong, because they don't accept the authority of anyone who would accuse him.
posted by delfin at 8:59 AM on October 21, 2022 [4 favorites]
And if it goes to that, Johnson will dance his way back into Number 10 with ease.
It's not even a matter of which of them is less likely to disgrace the party further, let alone which is better suited for the task at hand. Boris is a symbol, the man who Got Brexit Done, the rebel thumbing his nose at anyone who tries to enforce standards of behavior or rules or principles or ethics. An ungovernable governor. And that is what his base wants -- a repudiation of the idea that outsiders' opinions matter and a rude gesture to anyone who thinks anything's more important than keeping their passports blue. They don't care what he did wrong, because they don't accept the authority of anyone who would accuse him.
posted by delfin at 8:59 AM on October 21, 2022 [4 favorites]
Damning partygate evidence means Boris Johnson could be ‘gone by Christmas’: "Several people familiar with the Privileges Committee’s investigation into whether Boris Johnson misled MPs over parties in No10 have spoken to ITV News.
They say that a large amount of damaging evidence from inside No10 has already been handed over to Harriet Harman, who is chairing the inquiry. "
posted by BungaDunga at 9:16 AM on October 21, 2022 [6 favorites]
They say that a large amount of damaging evidence from inside No10 has already been handed over to Harriet Harman, who is chairing the inquiry. "
posted by BungaDunga at 9:16 AM on October 21, 2022 [6 favorites]
Some responses to Truss' resignation.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 9:33 AM on October 21, 2022
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 9:33 AM on October 21, 2022
So far the only MP to announce their candidacy is Penny Mordaunt, whose only qualification seems to be her initials; meanwhile some of those who resigned from Johnson's government because of his shenanigans are now declaring their support for him.
posted by sarble at 9:44 AM on October 21, 2022
posted by sarble at 9:44 AM on October 21, 2022
Upcoming Liz Truss biography has already had its title changed
An upcoming biography about Liz Truss is already undergoing some changes as the UK continues to face political chaos.posted by kirkaracha at 10:25 AM on October 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
The biography, written by journalists Harry Cole and James Heale was initially slated to be called Out of the Blue: The Inside Story of Liz Truss and Her Astonishing Rise to Power.
The biography, written by journalists Harry Cole and James Heale was initially slated to be called Out of the Blue: The Inside Story of Liz Truss and Her Astonishing Rise to Power.
I note from the article that they are adding a chapter titled "Into the Red". I wonder if it shouldn't be titled "Into the Black" and the title of the book changed to "Hey Hey My My".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:28 AM on October 21, 2022 [7 favorites]
I note from the article that they are adding a chapter titled "Into the Red". I wonder if it shouldn't be titled "Into the Black" and the title of the book changed to "Hey Hey My My".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:28 AM on October 21, 2022 [7 favorites]
Boris is planning to run again.
And if you're wondering what he's been doing since he left office, he's apparently been on 3 holidays, done a speaking tour of the US and missed every single vote in parliament. The fact that he can't even be bothered to do his job as an MP should be pretty damning but I guess that's just one more flaw his backers are happy to ignore.
posted by Limivorous at 10:53 AM on October 21, 2022 [14 favorites]
And if you're wondering what he's been doing since he left office, he's apparently been on 3 holidays, done a speaking tour of the US and missed every single vote in parliament. The fact that he can't even be bothered to do his job as an MP should be pretty damning but I guess that's just one more flaw his backers are happy to ignore.
posted by Limivorous at 10:53 AM on October 21, 2022 [14 favorites]
I think one thing that all Britons can agree on is that the monarch shouldn't summarily dismiss Parliament. Like, they kind of had a civil war about it.
A momentary Nepo Baby Rescue followed by epic stupids would be very on brand for the 2020s though.
posted by srboisvert at 11:01 AM on October 21, 2022
A momentary Nepo Baby Rescue followed by epic stupids would be very on brand for the 2020s though.
posted by srboisvert at 11:01 AM on October 21, 2022
Thanks for that BungaDunga, the only thing that could make me feel remotely cheery about Johnson coming back is the thought that Harman might get to bury him in the most damaging (to him) way possible ie. while PM, not while sunning himself in the Caribbean.
If it manages to devastate the Tory party’s electoral chances further, so much the better.
posted by penguin pie at 11:07 AM on October 21, 2022
If it manages to devastate the Tory party’s electoral chances further, so much the better.
posted by penguin pie at 11:07 AM on October 21, 2022
The Plan Is To Make You Permanently Poorer
posted by flabdablet at 8:25 AM on October 21
This is very much worth listening to, if you can find the time. One of my countless cousins was a bond trader (now pensioned) and has similar opinions, if not quite as far left. Even some of the very rich know that the extreme inequality the Tories have created is not sustainable.
posted by mumimor at 11:40 AM on October 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 8:25 AM on October 21
This is very much worth listening to, if you can find the time. One of my countless cousins was a bond trader (now pensioned) and has similar opinions, if not quite as far left. Even some of the very rich know that the extreme inequality the Tories have created is not sustainable.
posted by mumimor at 11:40 AM on October 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
Damning partygate evidence means Boris Johnson could be ‘gone by Christmas’: "Several people familiar with the Privileges Committee’s investigation into whether Boris Johnson misled MPs over parties in No10 have spoken to ITV News.
They'll reinstall Bozo, keep slamming the car into every tree and fence, and then when the next investigation or scandal hits they'll just say it's old news and the press/opposition/complainers are "piling on" and the UK needs stability now.
And then run over every pedestrian in sight.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:05 PM on October 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
They'll reinstall Bozo, keep slamming the car into every tree and fence, and then when the next investigation or scandal hits they'll just say it's old news and the press/opposition/complainers are "piling on" and the UK needs stability now.
And then run over every pedestrian in sight.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:05 PM on October 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
The biography, written by journalists Harry Cole and James Heale was initially slated to be called Out of the Blue: The Inside Story of Liz Truss and Her Astonishing Rise to Power.
I notice the article was written before the resignation announcement. Under the circumstances, the easiest thing at this point would be to change the last two words to "and Fall".
posted by Epixonti at 12:17 PM on October 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
I notice the article was written before the resignation announcement. Under the circumstances, the easiest thing at this point would be to change the last two words to "and Fall".
posted by Epixonti at 12:17 PM on October 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
How does Liz Truss biographer Harry Cole feel about her resignation?
He seems to be taking it with good humor.
posted by adept256 at 12:32 PM on October 21, 2022
He seems to be taking it with good humor.
posted by adept256 at 12:32 PM on October 21, 2022
Conservative MP David Gauke, offers some practical advice to Kier Starner on a way forward (really)
posted by rongorongo at 1:39 PM on October 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by rongorongo at 1:39 PM on October 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
In a similar vein:
The Germans have a word for it: Totentanz – a dance of death. Conservative MPs, peers, donors, hacks and activists caper owards an open grave, with Death himself – sorry, Johnson – leading the procession. The dance possesses them; it has a momentum of its own; they are powerless to stop.
...from Paul Goodman (warning: link to ConservativeHome).
posted by aramaic at 1:55 PM on October 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
The Germans have a word for it: Totentanz – a dance of death. Conservative MPs, peers, donors, hacks and activists caper owards an open grave, with Death himself – sorry, Johnson – leading the procession. The dance possesses them; it has a momentum of its own; they are powerless to stop.
...from Paul Goodman (warning: link to ConservativeHome).
posted by aramaic at 1:55 PM on October 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
Gauke's tweet predictably dragged the Tory die-hards out of the woodwork in the replies, including someone demaning Labour's "fully costed spending plans", which given what Truss just tried to do is a feat of chutzpah that can be seen from Andromeda.
posted by entity447b at 2:34 PM on October 21, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by entity447b at 2:34 PM on October 21, 2022 [9 favorites]
I love the sequence of Daily Express covers for each new Conservative leader. And then add tomorrow’s cover.
- ONLY CAMERON CAN SAVE BRITAIN
- VOTE MAY OR WE FACE DISASTER
- DOWN BUT NOT OUT! WHY WE MUST PUT FAITH IN BORIS
- PUT FAITH IN TRUSS TO DELIVER FOR BRITAIN
- BORIS: I’M UP FOR IT..WE ARE GONG TO DO THIS
(No links to Daily Express in the above because right wing nuttery - all links to Twitter)
posted by inflatablekiwi at 2:56 PM on October 21, 2022 [6 favorites]
- ONLY CAMERON CAN SAVE BRITAIN
- VOTE MAY OR WE FACE DISASTER
- DOWN BUT NOT OUT! WHY WE MUST PUT FAITH IN BORIS
- PUT FAITH IN TRUSS TO DELIVER FOR BRITAIN
- BORIS: I’M UP FOR IT..WE ARE GONG TO DO THIS
(No links to Daily Express in the above because right wing nuttery - all links to Twitter)
posted by inflatablekiwi at 2:56 PM on October 21, 2022 [6 favorites]
- LARRY THE CAT: IT'S TIME TO CLEAN BRITAIN'S LITTER BOX
posted by pyramid termite at 3:29 PM on October 21, 2022 [14 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 3:29 PM on October 21, 2022 [14 favorites]
BORIS: I’M UP FOR IT..WE ARE GONG TO DO THIS
Back from his vacation, like Napoleon back from Elba...
posted by clawsoon at 6:20 PM on October 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
Back from his vacation, like Napoleon back from Elba...
posted by clawsoon at 6:20 PM on October 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
like Napoleon back from Elba...
Or perhaps Lenin in his sealed train.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 6:40 PM on October 21, 2022
Or perhaps Lenin in his sealed train.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 6:40 PM on October 21, 2022
Put a blonde wig on it and he's more likely to be in a trained seal.
posted by biffa at 1:07 AM on October 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by biffa at 1:07 AM on October 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
Anyway, I hope he had a nice time in Cincinnati.
Something that's being missed by at least some commentators is that he's not actually very popular, and never was. He had the luck to stand in 2019 with one big idea (get Brexit done - which I suspect was widely interpreted as "make Brexit go away", and I think it's fair to say he let us all down there) and an opponent who was far more unpopular than he was - a lot of apparently pro-Johnson votes were actually anti-Corbyn.
It's an easy mistake to make - lots of people saw the not-quite-as-bad-as-expected Labour failure in 2017 as Corbyn actually being popular, ignoring the fact that their opponents committed electoral suicide.
I find it hard to believe that Tory MPs will resign the whip en masse should he succeed, but then a lot of the last few years has been hard to believe. Anyway, my hope and expectation is that the country will treat Johnson and his crew like a boisterous party guest - at first entertaining, but then he eats most of the food and spills a lot of the rest, and breaks furniture and heirlooms with his frenetic dancing and by midnight you just want him to fuck off home so you can tidy up and go to bed.
posted by Grangousier at 2:58 AM on October 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
Something that's being missed by at least some commentators is that he's not actually very popular, and never was. He had the luck to stand in 2019 with one big idea (get Brexit done - which I suspect was widely interpreted as "make Brexit go away", and I think it's fair to say he let us all down there) and an opponent who was far more unpopular than he was - a lot of apparently pro-Johnson votes were actually anti-Corbyn.
It's an easy mistake to make - lots of people saw the not-quite-as-bad-as-expected Labour failure in 2017 as Corbyn actually being popular, ignoring the fact that their opponents committed electoral suicide.
I find it hard to believe that Tory MPs will resign the whip en masse should he succeed, but then a lot of the last few years has been hard to believe. Anyway, my hope and expectation is that the country will treat Johnson and his crew like a boisterous party guest - at first entertaining, but then he eats most of the food and spills a lot of the rest, and breaks furniture and heirlooms with his frenetic dancing and by midnight you just want him to fuck off home so you can tidy up and go to bed.
posted by Grangousier at 2:58 AM on October 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
I have to think the entire operation will wallow in circles until someone in a leadership position pipes up like "HAHA ACTUALLY WE"RE COMPLETELY FUCKED!" and starts the conversation about getting real.
posted by rhizome at 3:04 AM on October 22, 2022
posted by rhizome at 3:04 AM on October 22, 2022
Oh, actually, come to think of it, he was popular once: when it looked like he might be dying. He let us down there, too.
And I think a lot of that popularity would have evaporated had it been clearer that he contracted covid because he and his circle were basically ignoring the restrictions they required the rest of us to live under.
posted by Grangousier at 3:37 AM on October 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
And I think a lot of that popularity would have evaporated had it been clearer that he contracted covid because he and his circle were basically ignoring the restrictions they required the rest of us to live under.
posted by Grangousier at 3:37 AM on October 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
I think it was pretty clear at the time he caught it that he was being very casual about it. He bragged about shaking hands with people who had tested positive a few days before catching it.
posted by biffa at 5:27 AM on October 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by biffa at 5:27 AM on October 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Something that's being missed by at least some commentators is that he's not actually very popular, and never was.
He's quite popular with the Tory party membership unfortunately, so I guess I don't see the media's focus on that as too surprising given their opinions are of more immediate practical concern (to those of us who aren't Tory MPs) than the voting public at large.
posted by Dysk at 6:49 AM on October 22, 2022
He's quite popular with the Tory party membership unfortunately, so I guess I don't see the media's focus on that as too surprising given their opinions are of more immediate practical concern (to those of us who aren't Tory MPs) than the voting public at large.
posted by Dysk at 6:49 AM on October 22, 2022
It's a good thing it's Caps Lock Day because JESUS FUCKING CHRIST WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE FUCKING PEOPLE.
posted by automatronic at 7:41 AM on October 22, 2022
posted by automatronic at 7:41 AM on October 22, 2022
It's hard to see a situation where Johnson is on the ballot and doesn't win.
posted by Dysk at 7:47 AM on October 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Dysk at 7:47 AM on October 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Still, it's not so easy.to visualize Boris Johnson creeping down down walls face first like Dracula.
posted by y2karl at 8:03 AM on October 22, 2022
posted by y2karl at 8:03 AM on October 22, 2022
He's quite popular with the Tory party membership unfortunately, so I guess I don't see the media's focus on that as too surprising given their opinions are of more immediate practical concern (to those of us who aren't Tory MPs) than the voting public at large.
It's much like the last time around; Sunak was the MPs' choice because he's likely the most competent of those standing for leadership, which is damning him with the faintest possible praise but is also pretty accurate. But the base would rather have a loon or a bombthrower who will Drive The Libs Nuts than someone competent, generally speaking.
And it's not hard to picture 100 MPs thinking "if it goes to a member vote, Boris will win with ease, and it's better for me to have backed the winning horse than the losing one."
posted by delfin at 8:18 AM on October 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
It's much like the last time around; Sunak was the MPs' choice because he's likely the most competent of those standing for leadership, which is damning him with the faintest possible praise but is also pretty accurate. But the base would rather have a loon or a bombthrower who will Drive The Libs Nuts than someone competent, generally speaking.
And it's not hard to picture 100 MPs thinking "if it goes to a member vote, Boris will win with ease, and it's better for me to have backed the winning horse than the losing one."
posted by delfin at 8:18 AM on October 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
For a mere 25 quid (currently $28.26), I could sign up from my house in Kansas and be allowed to cast a vote for the next PM.
How fast do we think TikTok can organize to keep Johnson on holiday?
posted by flabdablet at 9:11 AM on October 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
How fast do we think TikTok can organize to keep Johnson on holiday?
posted by flabdablet at 9:11 AM on October 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
To be fair, you have to have been a member for at least 3 months in order to vote in this leadership election. If it goes to a vote. So it's not a complete free-for-all.
The Boris camp are claiming that he has more than 100 supporters, however it's notable that he only has about 50 or so who have publicly declared. I don't know whether they are exaggerating as a tactic or the 'shy Johnson voter' is a thing.
posted by plonkee at 9:47 AM on October 22, 2022
The Boris camp are claiming that he has more than 100 supporters, however it's notable that he only has about 50 or so who have publicly declared. I don't know whether they are exaggerating as a tactic or the 'shy Johnson voter' is a thing.
posted by plonkee at 9:47 AM on October 22, 2022
There are a fair number of people who would certainly step forward as supporter #107, so to speak, but who don't want to be #100 or anything close to it. Ride the bandwagon but only once it's cleared the top of the hill and surely won't come crashing back down the incline.
Kemi Badenoch, one of the hard-right gadflies, comes out for Sunak.
posted by delfin at 10:37 AM on October 22, 2022
Kemi Badenoch, one of the hard-right gadflies, comes out for Sunak.
posted by delfin at 10:37 AM on October 22, 2022
Lord "We always sign treaties in good faith and intend to implement them*" Frost has come out as backing Sunak.
"Reminder that David Frost was an obscure whisky salesman when Boris Johnson made him the UK's chief Brexit negotiator, then his national security advisor, then a senior No.10 aide, then a life peer."
Terrible politician who's made a whole career out of stabbing friends and colleagues in the back gets betrayed by terrible politician he promoted far beyond his ability. Such a shame Boris can't rely on his friends when he needs them.
* said while campaigning hard to unilaterally rip up the Northern Ireland section of the signed Brexit agreement HE negotiated and extolled as a triumph at the time.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 11:05 AM on October 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
"Reminder that David Frost was an obscure whisky salesman when Boris Johnson made him the UK's chief Brexit negotiator, then his national security advisor, then a senior No.10 aide, then a life peer."
Terrible politician who's made a whole career out of stabbing friends and colleagues in the back gets betrayed by terrible politician he promoted far beyond his ability. Such a shame Boris can't rely on his friends when he needs them.
* said while campaigning hard to unilaterally rip up the Northern Ireland section of the signed Brexit agreement HE negotiated and extolled as a triumph at the time.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 11:05 AM on October 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
"we registered Archie, our pet tortoise, as a member; a couple of foreign nationals; then Margaret Roberts, the maiden name of the late Lady Thatcher.
The Conservative Party took the £25 membership fee. We got membership numbers and were invited to hustings."
posted by BungaDunga at 11:24 AM on October 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
The Conservative Party took the £25 membership fee. We got membership numbers and were invited to hustings."
posted by BungaDunga at 11:24 AM on October 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
How fast do we think TikTok can organize to keep Johnson on holiday?
BTS Army, we pray to you. We need your power now more than ever.
posted by clawsoon at 11:31 AM on October 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
BTS Army, we pray to you. We need your power now more than ever.
posted by clawsoon at 11:31 AM on October 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
It does seem like Johnson's support has stalled. The BBC puts him at 53. Even that Guido spreadsheet only shows him on 74, a figure which has barely moved since yesterday, and 16 of those remain anonymous. Meanwhile Sunak is on somewhere between 125 and 133, and still climbing. If Sunak gets to 157, it becomes a two-horse race. And Mordaunt's supporters are probably unlikely to come down on Johnson's side.
But neither Sunak nor Johnson have actually confirmed they're running, and I suspect that neither will until they're sure they have it in the bag. Which for Sunak probably means being the only candidate to clear the bar, because if Johnson makes it onto the ballot, the Tory membership will probably vote him back in.
Sooner or later one of them needs to actually declare though, or Mordaunt will be the only actual candidate. Which would be the most shambolic outcome possible, and therefore extremely on form for the Tories right now.
posted by automatronic at 12:54 PM on October 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
But neither Sunak nor Johnson have actually confirmed they're running, and I suspect that neither will until they're sure they have it in the bag. Which for Sunak probably means being the only candidate to clear the bar, because if Johnson makes it onto the ballot, the Tory membership will probably vote him back in.
Sooner or later one of them needs to actually declare though, or Mordaunt will be the only actual candidate. Which would be the most shambolic outcome possible, and therefore extremely on form for the Tories right now.
posted by automatronic at 12:54 PM on October 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
Mordaunt will be the only actual candidate.
Not if she doesn't get 100 noms. Could we empty chair number 10, and would it be worse than the last four?
posted by biffa at 2:10 PM on October 22, 2022
Not if she doesn't get 100 noms. Could we empty chair number 10, and would it be worse than the last four?
posted by biffa at 2:10 PM on October 22, 2022
The Boris camp are claiming that he has more than 100 supporters,
Well, probably, but that’s counting everyone in the country, not just MPs.
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:29 PM on October 22, 2022 [8 favorites]
Well, probably, but that’s counting everyone in the country, not just MPs.
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:29 PM on October 22, 2022 [8 favorites]
Could we empty chair number 10
The chair would not be empty - look how warm and cosy it is. Larry the cat would take office by default.
posted by automatronic at 3:04 PM on October 22, 2022 [14 favorites]
The chair would not be empty - look how warm and cosy it is. Larry the cat would take office by default.
posted by automatronic at 3:04 PM on October 22, 2022 [14 favorites]
Reportedly, Sunak and Johnson met privately this evening. There's plenty of talk circulating that if Boris isn't going to stroll back into power without a fight, he'll take whatever he can get (Foreign Secretary? Home Secretary? Would he settle for something other than the top slot itself? Seat in the Lords? Some kind of deal to muffle investigations-in-progress of Johnson, despite the political fallout if that happens?) and back Sunak to derail the leadership circus.
Which will not sit well with the Johnson backers, who are busily accusing Sunak of backstabbing Boris all along, being behind every ill that's beset Boris and the Tories in his desperate quest for power, being an operative of the WEF, being the front man for an MP coup denying the clear will of the people (as Boris was directly elected despite that not being how it works with a massive mandate and the voters haven't changed their minds), and most telling, that Sunak is not even actually British for some odd reason that's so hard to put your finger upon.
Which will not sit well with non-Tories whose call for a general election will continue to be ignored.
Which will leave Boris as having withdrawn from a race that he'd never formally entered, in favor of a hardline right-winger who's not acceptable to hardline right-wingers and lost to Margarine Thatcher last time around.
But time will tell.
posted by delfin at 4:31 PM on October 22, 2022 [9 favorites]
Which will not sit well with the Johnson backers, who are busily accusing Sunak of backstabbing Boris all along, being behind every ill that's beset Boris and the Tories in his desperate quest for power, being an operative of the WEF, being the front man for an MP coup denying the clear will of the people (as Boris was directly elected despite that not being how it works with a massive mandate and the voters haven't changed their minds), and most telling, that Sunak is not even actually British for some odd reason that's so hard to put your finger upon.
Which will not sit well with non-Tories whose call for a general election will continue to be ignored.
Which will leave Boris as having withdrawn from a race that he'd never formally entered, in favor of a hardline right-winger who's not acceptable to hardline right-wingers and lost to Margarine Thatcher last time around.
But time will tell.
posted by delfin at 4:31 PM on October 22, 2022 [9 favorites]
Cometh rhe hour, cometh the Bin.
"I was passing Earth and it seemed to be the most deranged planet of the lot."
@countbinface talks to @sturdyAlex about what aliens think of British politics (The Bunker podcast)
I do love Count Binface’s offer to run as a unity opposition candidate in Uxbridge & South Ruislip against Borris. That would be a hell of a message if he won. “ That way he won't just lose, he'll lose in the way he deserves.”
posted by inflatablekiwi at 4:57 AM on October 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
"I was passing Earth and it seemed to be the most deranged planet of the lot."
@countbinface talks to @sturdyAlex about what aliens think of British politics (The Bunker podcast)
I do love Count Binface’s offer to run as a unity opposition candidate in Uxbridge & South Ruislip against Borris. That would be a hell of a message if he won. “ That way he won't just lose, he'll lose in the way he deserves.”
posted by inflatablekiwi at 4:57 AM on October 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
Worms Armageddon Political Simulation Machine: UK Political Crisis Special
posted by polytope subirb enby-of-piano-dice at 5:22 AM on October 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by polytope subirb enby-of-piano-dice at 5:22 AM on October 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
Steven Swinford, The Times:
Boris Johnson has told colleagues that neither Penny Mordaunt nor Rishi Sunak are prepared to do a deal
He's reached out to both
During their call Mordaunt suggested that *he* should drop out rather than her as she is the second preference for most of his supporters
Harry Cole:
NEW: Chris Heaton Harris tells Boris supporters Whatsapp that the verified paperwork with 100 names backing Johnson has been "completed".
Choose the reality that you prefer.
posted by delfin at 11:28 AM on October 23, 2022
Boris Johnson has told colleagues that neither Penny Mordaunt nor Rishi Sunak are prepared to do a deal
He's reached out to both
During their call Mordaunt suggested that *he* should drop out rather than her as she is the second preference for most of his supporters
Harry Cole:
NEW: Chris Heaton Harris tells Boris supporters Whatsapp that the verified paperwork with 100 names backing Johnson has been "completed".
Choose the reality that you prefer.
posted by delfin at 11:28 AM on October 23, 2022
His 100 supporters are busy visiting those 40 new hospitals to give them their extra £350 million a week.
posted by automatronic at 12:22 PM on October 23, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by automatronic at 12:22 PM on October 23, 2022 [11 favorites]
That should about do it.
BBC: Boris Johnson has announced will not stand for the Tory leadership.
He is saying that despite having the support of the MPs required to run, he had come to the conclusion "this would simply not be the right thing to do" as "you can't govern effectively unless you have a united party in Parliament".
He says he had the backing of 102 MPs, the BBC's Political Editor Chris Mason reports.
"43 of those MPs are in Canada. You don't know them," he might as well have added.
Classic Boris, though. Letting everyone know that he could have waltzed to victory, if he'd wanted to, but Nebulous Forces would have undermined his rightful Premiership, so... he'll just be standing here, waiting to see if Sunak's run derails for some unforeseen reasons.
posted by delfin at 1:18 PM on October 23, 2022 [7 favorites]
BBC: Boris Johnson has announced will not stand for the Tory leadership.
He is saying that despite having the support of the MPs required to run, he had come to the conclusion "this would simply not be the right thing to do" as "you can't govern effectively unless you have a united party in Parliament".
He says he had the backing of 102 MPs, the BBC's Political Editor Chris Mason reports.
"43 of those MPs are in Canada. You don't know them," he might as well have added.
Classic Boris, though. Letting everyone know that he could have waltzed to victory, if he'd wanted to, but Nebulous Forces would have undermined his rightful Premiership, so... he'll just be standing here, waiting to see if Sunak's run derails for some unforeseen reasons.
posted by delfin at 1:18 PM on October 23, 2022 [7 favorites]
Does the UK have anything like Canada where it's possible for someone who's not an MP to be Prime Minister?
posted by clawsoon at 1:27 PM on October 23, 2022
posted by clawsoon at 1:27 PM on October 23, 2022
Does the UK have anything like Canada where it's possible for someone who's not an MP to be Prime Minister?
In theory a member of the House of Lords can be Prime Minister (and indeed before the 20th century, they often were). However, it's not really practical nowadays. The most important business is done in the House of Commons, it's been the centre of political gravity since at least 1832 if not earlier, definitively so since the Parliament Act of 1911 limited the Lords' power to reject legislation from the Commons. This 2013 government history blogpost from Kathryn Rix about Prime Ministers in the Lords explains more.
posted by plonkee at 1:40 PM on October 23, 2022 [6 favorites]
In theory a member of the House of Lords can be Prime Minister (and indeed before the 20th century, they often were). However, it's not really practical nowadays. The most important business is done in the House of Commons, it's been the centre of political gravity since at least 1832 if not earlier, definitively so since the Parliament Act of 1911 limited the Lords' power to reject legislation from the Commons. This 2013 government history blogpost from Kathryn Rix about Prime Ministers in the Lords explains more.
posted by plonkee at 1:40 PM on October 23, 2022 [6 favorites]
Liz Truss 'pretended relatives had died' to duck BBC Question Time “Only minor people like aunts and cousins and things, I’m not talking about, you know, major members of the family..."
posted by clawsoon at 1:48 PM on October 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 1:48 PM on October 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
Anyway, Twitter is full of "Fnarr! Fnarr! Boris pulls out! That's a first" jokes, and it'll take a while for them to settle down and contribute anything sensible. And the Telegraph has deleted the article by Nadhim Zahawi about how Boris 2.0 would mop the floor with all the other contenders that they published at exactly the same time Boris dropped out. It's estimated that this is the fifth embarrassing volte face by Mr Zahawi, who appears to be unusually devoid of shame.
posted by Grangousier at 2:03 PM on October 23, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by Grangousier at 2:03 PM on October 23, 2022 [7 favorites]
(He's already pledged his support for Sunak. To describe him as duplicitous would be to ascribe a loyalty and dedication the the facts don't support in any way.)
posted by Grangousier at 2:14 PM on October 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Grangousier at 2:14 PM on October 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm not one who's much given to air punching, but I just did one and shouted YASSS to the empty room on hearing the news about Johnson.
I know they're all totally fucking poisonous, but I just could not bear to have him plastered all over the news as PM again and there was a while when I thought it might happen.
posted by penguin pie at 2:18 PM on October 23, 2022 [9 favorites]
I know they're all totally fucking poisonous, but I just could not bear to have him plastered all over the news as PM again and there was a while when I thought it might happen.
posted by penguin pie at 2:18 PM on October 23, 2022 [9 favorites]
BOJO BYEBYE
posted by lalochezia at 3:30 PM on October 23, 2022
posted by lalochezia at 3:30 PM on October 23, 2022
So, the last heartbeat of hope for the dead-enders would now be that with Boris out, everyone will suddenly see Sunak as a horrible backstabbing turncoat and socialist-in-Thatcherite-clothing and rally behind Mordaunt overnight. With many of the princes and princesses of the freak kingdom having endorsed Sunak before Johnson dropped out, that seems... quite unlikely.
My favorite tone-deaf-and-blind response was by Nadine Dorries: (my emphasis in bold)
Boris would have won members vote - already had a mandate from the people. Rishi and Penny, despite requests from Boris refused to unite which would have made governing utterly impossible.
Penny actually asked him to step aside for her. It will now be impossible to avoid a GE.
As if she somehow didn't have a right to suggest that as one of the few viable candidates, talking about an opponent who's staring down the barrel of a pile of investigations and would quite possibly start this whole circus over again in a few months?
That drives a stake through the heart of any potential Mordaunt-as-anyone-but-Sunak eleventh-hour rally, if Boris's retinue now view her as having betrayed him, too.
posted by delfin at 5:22 PM on October 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
My favorite tone-deaf-and-blind response was by Nadine Dorries: (my emphasis in bold)
Boris would have won members vote - already had a mandate from the people. Rishi and Penny, despite requests from Boris refused to unite which would have made governing utterly impossible.
Penny actually asked him to step aside for her. It will now be impossible to avoid a GE.
As if she somehow didn't have a right to suggest that as one of the few viable candidates, talking about an opponent who's staring down the barrel of a pile of investigations and would quite possibly start this whole circus over again in a few months?
That drives a stake through the heart of any potential Mordaunt-as-anyone-but-Sunak eleventh-hour rally, if Boris's retinue now view her as having betrayed him, too.
posted by delfin at 5:22 PM on October 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
There's something almost refreshing about Zahawi's commitment to duplicitousness. His no fucks given attitude to it, being prepared to do it all in public rather than try and conceal any of it. Perhaps he's assessed that this is what the public expects and wants from their Tories right now.
The hell of a half hour he had last night (Zahawi's Telegraph article backing Johnson published at 21:00, Johnson withdraws about six minutes later, Zahawi backs Sunak on Twitter at 21:29) was preceded by the hell of a week he had in July:
- Appointed Chancellor by Johnson on the 5th July
- Writes an article calling on Johnson to resign on the 7th July
- Announces his candidacy for the party leadership on the 9th July
- Eliminated from the race on the 13th July
Making the man who gave him his start in politics, Jeffrey Archer, proud no doubt.
posted by o seasons o castles at 11:10 PM on October 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
The hell of a half hour he had last night (Zahawi's Telegraph article backing Johnson published at 21:00, Johnson withdraws about six minutes later, Zahawi backs Sunak on Twitter at 21:29) was preceded by the hell of a week he had in July:
- Appointed Chancellor by Johnson on the 5th July
- Writes an article calling on Johnson to resign on the 7th July
- Announces his candidacy for the party leadership on the 9th July
- Eliminated from the race on the 13th July
Making the man who gave him his start in politics, Jeffrey Archer, proud no doubt.
posted by o seasons o castles at 11:10 PM on October 23, 2022 [3 favorites]
Zahawi has no shame whatsoever, and therefore represents the pinnacle of evolution of the Tory party, because to return to the speedrun jokes, maxing out that stat is the exploit which completely breaks the British political game.
The entire system is predicated on the assumption that politicians will be Gentlemen, deeply bound to a chivalric sense of honour, who would fall on their swords out of shame upon failure or dishonour, and hold their colleagues to the same.
It has absolutely no process for dealing with the completely shameless, the utterly dishonest. You literally aren't even allowed to speak of the possibility in the Commons. Even outside that bubble, that norm of civility is quietly enforced through other means.
So the shameless act with impunity, since the only weapon the other players are permitted to use against them is the one which they are completely impervious to: shame.
Some day we are going to have to patch this exploit.
posted by automatronic at 2:52 AM on October 24, 2022 [6 favorites]
The entire system is predicated on the assumption that politicians will be Gentlemen, deeply bound to a chivalric sense of honour, who would fall on their swords out of shame upon failure or dishonour, and hold their colleagues to the same.
It has absolutely no process for dealing with the completely shameless, the utterly dishonest. You literally aren't even allowed to speak of the possibility in the Commons. Even outside that bubble, that norm of civility is quietly enforced through other means.
So the shameless act with impunity, since the only weapon the other players are permitted to use against them is the one which they are completely impervious to: shame.
Some day we are going to have to patch this exploit.
posted by automatronic at 2:52 AM on October 24, 2022 [6 favorites]
- ONLY CAMERON CAN SAVE BRITAIN
- VOTE MAY OR WE FACE DISASTER
- DOWN BUT NOT OUT! WHY WE MUST PUT FAITH IN BORIS
- PUT FAITH IN TRUSS TO DELIVER FOR BRITAIN
- BORIS: I’M UP FOR IT..WE ARE GONG TO DO THIS
Speaking of shameless, has the Daily Express caught up to the latest developments?
posted by clawsoon at 3:40 AM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
- VOTE MAY OR WE FACE DISASTER
- DOWN BUT NOT OUT! WHY WE MUST PUT FAITH IN BORIS
- PUT FAITH IN TRUSS TO DELIVER FOR BRITAIN
- BORIS: I’M UP FOR IT..WE ARE GONG TO DO THIS
Speaking of shameless, has the Daily Express caught up to the latest developments?
posted by clawsoon at 3:40 AM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
A close reading of Boris Johnson’s statement saying he is not standing for leadership by David Allen Green
posted by Grangousier at 5:55 AM on October 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Grangousier at 5:55 AM on October 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
History being made today, as we have the first British-Asian prime minister.
All told, I'm pretty fucking pleased we ended up with Rishi. The least bad of some pretty awful options.
posted by Dysk at 6:57 AM on October 24, 2022
All told, I'm pretty fucking pleased we ended up with Rishi. The least bad of some pretty awful options.
posted by Dysk at 6:57 AM on October 24, 2022
Only minor people like aunts and cousins and things, I’m not talking about, you know, major members of the family...
I'm not sure British politics needed to turn into a reenactment of the H.M.S. Pinafore, but in this world you get the operetta you deserve, not the operetta you need.
posted by jackbishop at 7:05 AM on October 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
I'm not sure British politics needed to turn into a reenactment of the H.M.S. Pinafore, but in this world you get the operetta you deserve, not the operetta you need.
posted by jackbishop at 7:05 AM on October 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
Well it's like Churchill (didn't) say: "You can always count on the [Tories] to do the [least bad] thing after they have tried everything else."
posted by jedicus at 7:08 AM on October 24, 2022
posted by jedicus at 7:08 AM on October 24, 2022
I mean, you can't count on that. They nearly went for Johnson despite having already tried that.
posted by Dysk at 7:14 AM on October 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Dysk at 7:14 AM on October 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
What to expect next:
Ian Dunt:
2) (Sunak) is wrong about almost everything, but he is generally wrong within the boundaries of reason. He can be foolish and evasive, but he's not a fully committed post-truth merchant.
Normal austerity schedules now resume.
posted by delfin at 7:39 AM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
Ian Dunt:
2) (Sunak) is wrong about almost everything, but he is generally wrong within the boundaries of reason. He can be foolish and evasive, but he's not a fully committed post-truth merchant.
Normal austerity schedules now resume.
posted by delfin at 7:39 AM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
All told, I'm pretty fucking pleased we ended up with Rishi. The least bad of some pretty awful options.
Ah yes, Rishi, the man who boasted about taking money from "deprived urban areas" to give it to the wealthy. Things should go swimmingly. The problem with 'least bad' is that he is in a party that contains complete, actual lunatics.
Portugal gets to have an Asian (Indian for US folks) PM who is a Socialist. Britain gets a Tory hedge-fund billionaire who will continue the relentless attack on the poor.
posted by vacapinta at 7:41 AM on October 24, 2022 [12 favorites]
Ah yes, Rishi, the man who boasted about taking money from "deprived urban areas" to give it to the wealthy. Things should go swimmingly. The problem with 'least bad' is that he is in a party that contains complete, actual lunatics.
Portugal gets to have an Asian (Indian for US folks) PM who is a Socialist. Britain gets a Tory hedge-fund billionaire who will continue the relentless attack on the poor.
posted by vacapinta at 7:41 AM on October 24, 2022 [12 favorites]
Also as the Spectator gloats (no link) "Almost alone in the cabinet, Sunak genuinely fought lockdown. He lost, but he fought – and gave a candid interview to The Spectator about that fight. No one else would have given an interview like that because no one else fought it."
posted by TheophileEscargot at 7:50 AM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by TheophileEscargot at 7:50 AM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
Ah yes, Rishi, the man who boasted about taking money from "deprived urban areas" to give it to the wealthy.
And, in fairness, the chancellor who presided over the furlough scheme. But of course he's still a Tory, and I know exactly who the Tories are, which is precisely why my bar is so low. 'The least bad' is not an endorsement.
posted by Dysk at 8:01 AM on October 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
And, in fairness, the chancellor who presided over the furlough scheme. But of course he's still a Tory, and I know exactly who the Tories are, which is precisely why my bar is so low. 'The least bad' is not an endorsement.
posted by Dysk at 8:01 AM on October 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
- UK’s first non-white PM
- Youngest PM since 1812
- Richest PM ever
- Still a Tory
We're going to get Austerity 2.0 - that was basically inevitable after Truss and Kwarteng's suicidal mini-Budget - but at least Sunak is vaguely aware of the need to be electable, and actual reality. The furlough scheme and 2nd go at energy bill support in May (the £400 universal payment +£650 for benefit recipients etc) were surprisingly un-tory like, flawed as they were.
At least Truss is gone and it's not Boris part II, which is damning with extremely faint praise indeed, but it could have been a lot worse.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 8:18 AM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
- Youngest PM since 1812
- Richest PM ever
- Still a Tory
We're going to get Austerity 2.0 - that was basically inevitable after Truss and Kwarteng's suicidal mini-Budget - but at least Sunak is vaguely aware of the need to be electable, and actual reality. The furlough scheme and 2nd go at energy bill support in May (the £400 universal payment +£650 for benefit recipients etc) were surprisingly un-tory like, flawed as they were.
At least Truss is gone and it's not Boris part II, which is damning with extremely faint praise indeed, but it could have been a lot worse.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 8:18 AM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
At last, a leader who sucks within the bounds of normal
posted by saturday_morning at 8:19 AM on October 24, 2022 [12 favorites]
posted by saturday_morning at 8:19 AM on October 24, 2022 [12 favorites]
Is Labour doing anything to position themselves to take advantage of this instability?
posted by Selena777 at 8:23 AM on October 24, 2022
posted by Selena777 at 8:23 AM on October 24, 2022
Haha, you must be joking. Starmer apparently just appeared on right wing radio host Nick Ferrari's programme to back harsh prison sentences for climate protesters.
Shower of bastards, every last one.
posted by Acey at 8:27 AM on October 24, 2022 [9 favorites]
Shower of bastards, every last one.
posted by Acey at 8:27 AM on October 24, 2022 [9 favorites]
I moved back to the UK ten years ago. Labour have been outstandingly good, ever since, at finding issues I am especially upset with the Tories over and promising to handle them in the exact same way. I'll still be pleased to see them take over, assuming that's something I do indeed get to see at some point, but...
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 10:06 AM on October 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 10:06 AM on October 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
Labour adverts attack Lib Dems for wanting to "decriminalise drugs".
posted by TheophileEscargot at 10:11 AM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by TheophileEscargot at 10:11 AM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
In the immortal words of my friend, the aunty uncle Good Morning Whatsapp demographic is going to be unbearable. Stay strong folks.
posted by cendawanita at 11:27 AM on October 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 11:27 AM on October 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
the aunty uncle Good Morning Whatsapp demographic is going to be unbearable. Stay strong folks.
It took me a while to get that. Cheers cendawanita...
posted by mumimor at 12:41 PM on October 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
It took me a while to get that. Cheers cendawanita...
posted by mumimor at 12:41 PM on October 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
It will be entertaining to watch him support austerity for the masses, tax cuts for the rich, all things Brexit, deporting immigrants and large spending cuts on services while a chunk of his own party's base bashes him as a socialist Soros operative who's a World Economic Forum pawn bent on destroying the UK's sovereignty and supporting One World Government.
In conclusion, the UK is a land of contrasts.
posted by delfin at 1:02 PM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
In conclusion, the UK is a land of contrasts.
posted by delfin at 1:02 PM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
cendawanita: the aunty uncle Good Morning Whatsapp demographic is going to be unbearable.
For somebody who doesn't know anybody in the aunty uncle Good Morning Whatsapp demographic, can you explain in what ways they'll be unbearable? I can imagine a few different ways it might go, but I've got no anchors here.
posted by clawsoon at 1:44 PM on October 24, 2022
For somebody who doesn't know anybody in the aunty uncle Good Morning Whatsapp demographic, can you explain in what ways they'll be unbearable? I can imagine a few different ways it might go, but I've got no anchors here.
posted by clawsoon at 1:44 PM on October 24, 2022
Tatler has a couple-of-years-old article with gossip on Sunak that they've re-posted:
"‘His luck has given him the politics of the head boy,’ said one contemporary in finance, referring to Sunak’s zeal in upholding institutions."
"‘Everyone was chipper about it when Blair won,’ Johnson said. But not Rishi."
"nerdy teetotaller"
"‘Ridiculously nice.’ ‘Affable.’ ‘Approachable.’ ‘Charming.’ These are the words that come up again and again among Mayfair types who knew Sunak.... It worked: but hedge-fund charm is designed to hide as much as it reveals."
"‘He wanted to enter politics in that old-fashioned way, because it was seen as the good thing to do.’ Good, as in socially ambitious."
"‘He’s got that Blair-like ability to hold your eye,’"
"‘His mind works in Excel,’"
"‘It’s Star Wars,’ said one MP, referring to the chancellor’s strange and classically ‘geek-chic’ hobby for minutely detailed models of spaceships and video games. ‘Most of his political philosophy comes out of the Star Wars trade wars that are about the independence of various kingdoms from the Empire. He’s not someone intellectual.’"
I have no idea how to put all of that together into a coherent picture.
posted by clawsoon at 3:07 PM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
"‘His luck has given him the politics of the head boy,’ said one contemporary in finance, referring to Sunak’s zeal in upholding institutions."
"‘Everyone was chipper about it when Blair won,’ Johnson said. But not Rishi."
"nerdy teetotaller"
"‘Ridiculously nice.’ ‘Affable.’ ‘Approachable.’ ‘Charming.’ These are the words that come up again and again among Mayfair types who knew Sunak.... It worked: but hedge-fund charm is designed to hide as much as it reveals."
"‘He wanted to enter politics in that old-fashioned way, because it was seen as the good thing to do.’ Good, as in socially ambitious."
"‘He’s got that Blair-like ability to hold your eye,’"
"‘His mind works in Excel,’"
"‘It’s Star Wars,’ said one MP, referring to the chancellor’s strange and classically ‘geek-chic’ hobby for minutely detailed models of spaceships and video games. ‘Most of his political philosophy comes out of the Star Wars trade wars that are about the independence of various kingdoms from the Empire. He’s not someone intellectual.’"
I have no idea how to put all of that together into a coherent picture.
posted by clawsoon at 3:07 PM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
"‘It’s Star Wars,’ said one MP, referring to the chancellor’s strange and classically ‘geek-chic’ hobby for minutely detailed models of spaceships and video games.
I'm curious to hear the sordid details that necessitated the "strange" in this sentence. Something sexual maybe? I'm having a hard time imagining what else it could be. Anyone know?
posted by some loser at 3:40 PM on October 24, 2022
I'm curious to hear the sordid details that necessitated the "strange" in this sentence. Something sexual maybe? I'm having a hard time imagining what else it could be. Anyone know?
posted by some loser at 3:40 PM on October 24, 2022
I'm curious to hear the sordid details that necessitated the "strange" in this sentence.
It's Tatler, so I assume that anything posh people who like posh parties don't do is "strange".
posted by clawsoon at 3:51 PM on October 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
It's Tatler, so I assume that anything posh people who like posh parties don't do is "strange".
posted by clawsoon at 3:51 PM on October 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
Speaking of shameless, has the Daily Express caught up to the latest developments?
Oh just the totally normal, and absolutely no panic headline that :
'WE MUST UNITE OR DIE…AND DELIVER FOR BRITAIN’
posted by inflatablekiwi at 4:10 PM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
Oh just the totally normal, and absolutely no panic headline that :
'WE MUST UNITE OR DIE…AND DELIVER FOR BRITAIN’
posted by inflatablekiwi at 4:10 PM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
(To which I love this Twitter reply - “Is this July 1st 1916 and their staff are going over the top at the Somme?”)
posted by inflatablekiwi at 4:11 PM on October 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by inflatablekiwi at 4:11 PM on October 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
For somebody who doesn't know anybody in the aunty uncle Good Morning Whatsapp demographic, can you explain in what ways they'll be unbearable?
Easiest answer is basically every Asian/Immigrant Striving Parent meme you can think of. Then there'd be the forwards about his background as well; indications of how this is how 'we' are better etc etc
posted by cendawanita at 5:24 PM on October 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
Easiest answer is basically every Asian/Immigrant Striving Parent meme you can think of. Then there'd be the forwards about his background as well; indications of how this is how 'we' are better etc etc
posted by cendawanita at 5:24 PM on October 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
"It's Chariots of Fire,' said one MP, referring to the chancellor's strange and classically 'Greek-chic' hobby for running marathon races.
posted by some loser at 5:39 PM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by some loser at 5:39 PM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
every Striving Parent meme you can think of
...plus extensive dissections of his history, family, and anyone vaguely adjacent to him (plus their histories) performed in order to see if there are any parallels with your life that can be deployed in service of either:
1) how this means you were of course destined to be where you are, because you are Better Than Others (also, we live in a much nicer colony than Them)
or
2) how this means you have disappointed all of us, you could have been PM by now surely, if only you hadn't made That One Decision Ten Years Ago and now we are all Bereft.
Bitter? No, never. Of course not. How could you say that?
posted by aramaic at 5:41 PM on October 24, 2022 [6 favorites]
...plus extensive dissections of his history, family, and anyone vaguely adjacent to him (plus their histories) performed in order to see if there are any parallels with your life that can be deployed in service of either:
1) how this means you were of course destined to be where you are, because you are Better Than Others (also, we live in a much nicer colony than Them)
or
2) how this means you have disappointed all of us, you could have been PM by now surely, if only you hadn't made That One Decision Ten Years Ago and now we are all Bereft.
Bitter? No, never. Of course not. How could you say that?
posted by aramaic at 5:41 PM on October 24, 2022 [6 favorites]
History being made today, as we have the first British-Asian prime minister.
Truly a victory for ethnic minorities - we too can now be as mediocre, venal and incompetent as a white dude and still succeed.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:54 PM on October 24, 2022 [6 favorites]
Truly a victory for ethnic minorities - we too can now be as mediocre, venal and incompetent as a white dude and still succeed.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:54 PM on October 24, 2022 [6 favorites]
The Tories have had two female PMs in the last 3 years and now a visible minority one. What's Labour, the supposed champion of women and visible minorities, been offering?
I know there's more nuance to it but Labour feels like the party of well-meaning white men that will tell you about all the ways they're helping you while keeping you away from the levers of power.
My country, province, and city are all led by mediocre white men. Should a woman or visible minority candidate have to be exceptional in order to beat them? If mediocrity or worse is good enough for them it should be good enough for everyone. I'd rather have mediocrity not be good enough for anyone to achieve high office but if we can't have that world then we should at least have one where mediocrity is good enough for everyone.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 6:15 PM on October 24, 2022 [7 favorites]
I know there's more nuance to it but Labour feels like the party of well-meaning white men that will tell you about all the ways they're helping you while keeping you away from the levers of power.
My country, province, and city are all led by mediocre white men. Should a woman or visible minority candidate have to be exceptional in order to beat them? If mediocrity or worse is good enough for them it should be good enough for everyone. I'd rather have mediocrity not be good enough for anyone to achieve high office but if we can't have that world then we should at least have one where mediocrity is good enough for everyone.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 6:15 PM on October 24, 2022 [7 favorites]
The Tories have had two female PMs in the last 3 years and now a visible minority one. What's Labour, the supposed champion of women and visible minorities, been offering?
My half-baked theory is that you have to reassure people that you won't change too much. Woman or visible minority? Better prove you're committed to the system by being a Tory. Labour leader? Better prove you're committed to the system by being a white man.
posted by clawsoon at 6:35 PM on October 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
My half-baked theory is that you have to reassure people that you won't change too much. Woman or visible minority? Better prove you're committed to the system by being a Tory. Labour leader? Better prove you're committed to the system by being a white man.
posted by clawsoon at 6:35 PM on October 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'd rather have mediocrity not be good enough for anyone to achieve high office but if we can't have that world then we should at least have one where mediocrity is good enough for everyone.
We're coming off the back of Truss and Johnson premierships. It's pretty clear that, in the Tory party at least, the white candidates don't even need to rise to the level of mediocre.
posted by Dysk at 6:38 PM on October 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
We're coming off the back of Truss and Johnson premierships. It's pretty clear that, in the Tory party at least, the white candidates don't even need to rise to the level of mediocre.
posted by Dysk at 6:38 PM on October 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
The Tories have had two female PMs in the last 3 years and now a visible minority one. What's Labour, the supposed champion of women and visible minorities, been offering?
keith
posted by dis_integration at 6:41 PM on October 24, 2022
keith
posted by dis_integration at 6:41 PM on October 24, 2022
The Tories have had two female PMs in the last 3 years and now a visible minority one. What's Labour, the supposed champion of women and visible minorities, been offering?
No opinion about Labour's candidates here, but both May and Truss are pretty clearly glass cliff party leaders; the glass cliff doesn't technically apply to men but Sunak seems to be in a similar category. It's going to be hard for Sunak to avoid blame for whatever happens to the economy and/or at the next election if he's still in charge no matter what he does in office.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 6:50 PM on October 24, 2022
No opinion about Labour's candidates here, but both May and Truss are pretty clearly glass cliff party leaders; the glass cliff doesn't technically apply to men but Sunak seems to be in a similar category. It's going to be hard for Sunak to avoid blame for whatever happens to the economy and/or at the next election if he's still in charge no matter what he does in office.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 6:50 PM on October 24, 2022
The WhatsApp land of multitudes, etc etc:
@karantalanti: Sorry Indian Americans. It's no longer good enough to be CEO. You have to be prime minister of a former colonizer now. That's the new bar.
@isthatscully: stop pretending that Rishi Sunak being Prime Minister is revolutionary for ethnic people, he’s a literal billionaire who is richer than the monarchy 😂 we don’t relate
this is how the country Girlboss’d Margaret Thatcher into taking away free milk for children
posted by cendawanita at 10:31 PM on October 24, 2022 [6 favorites]
@karantalanti: Sorry Indian Americans. It's no longer good enough to be CEO. You have to be prime minister of a former colonizer now. That's the new bar.
@isthatscully: stop pretending that Rishi Sunak being Prime Minister is revolutionary for ethnic people, he’s a literal billionaire who is richer than the monarchy 😂 we don’t relate
this is how the country Girlboss’d Margaret Thatcher into taking away free milk for children
posted by cendawanita at 10:31 PM on October 24, 2022 [6 favorites]
It's going to be hard for Sunak to avoid blame for whatever happens to the economy and/or at the next election if he's still in charge no matter what he does in office.
Given his longstanding position as a hardline trickle-downer, anything he does end up doing in office is going to be more than worth blaming him for on top of its predictable, predicted failure to address the present omnishambles in any useful way.
posted by flabdablet at 11:38 PM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
Given his longstanding position as a hardline trickle-downer, anything he does end up doing in office is going to be more than worth blaming him for on top of its predictable, predicted failure to address the present omnishambles in any useful way.
posted by flabdablet at 11:38 PM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
People keep saying that he's a hardcore right-winger, that his economics is basically the same as Truss's, but like, his stint as chancellor does not suggest that that is true. He opposed Truss's tax cuts as well. Here's the Telegraph complaining that he's not even conservative, for example.
Like, he's a Tory, there's plenty to get him for, but maybe let's go after him for stuff he's actually done?
posted by Dysk at 12:35 AM on October 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
Like, he's a Tory, there's plenty to get him for, but maybe let's go after him for stuff he's actually done?
posted by Dysk at 12:35 AM on October 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
That piece in the Tele reads like the kind of complete crap that could only have been written by somebody whose grasp of economics is as utterly missing as Truss's, so that's not worth paying attention to.
He's a Tory. Hard-line trickle-down is a Tory article of faith because the Tory worldview is constructed entirely of dismissive, simplistic slogans and that makes Tories very very bad at understanding what's actually happening in the world around them and therefore very very bad at responding in ways that don't actively make things worse.
Once a person has made the fundamental error of dividing the world into Us and Them, failing to perceive that physics dictates that to an exceedingly good first approximation we will all be occupying the same planet for the foreseeable future so there is only us, they become unfit to govern. And since that division is right at the heart of Tory ideology, Tories are unfit to govern and should be blamed for their consistently abject failures to do so with any degree of responsibility.
posted by flabdablet at 1:02 AM on October 25, 2022 [5 favorites]
He's a Tory. Hard-line trickle-down is a Tory article of faith because the Tory worldview is constructed entirely of dismissive, simplistic slogans and that makes Tories very very bad at understanding what's actually happening in the world around them and therefore very very bad at responding in ways that don't actively make things worse.
Once a person has made the fundamental error of dividing the world into Us and Them, failing to perceive that physics dictates that to an exceedingly good first approximation we will all be occupying the same planet for the foreseeable future so there is only us, they become unfit to govern. And since that division is right at the heart of Tory ideology, Tories are unfit to govern and should be blamed for their consistently abject failures to do so with any degree of responsibility.
posted by flabdablet at 1:02 AM on October 25, 2022 [5 favorites]
Again, the economic policy under Sunak as chancellor was quite un-Tory-like in that regard. There will no doubt be plenty to criticise him for in his policies going forward, but so far his record isn't exactly austerity or trickle down.
posted by Dysk at 1:29 AM on October 25, 2022
posted by Dysk at 1:29 AM on October 25, 2022
Remember, Sunak is probably most well known for the furlough scheme, the cost of the which was £14billion a month.
I imagine hewould have had a tough time arguing for it against many in the Tory party, but to his credit he managed to get it through.
posted by Kiwi at 2:56 AM on October 25, 2022
I imagine hewould have had a tough time arguing for it against many in the Tory party, but to his credit he managed to get it through.
posted by Kiwi at 2:56 AM on October 25, 2022
the economic policy under Sunak as chancellor was quite un-Tory-like
If you're talking about massive handouts to compensate for lost wages during the pandemic, I'm not sure that speaks to Sunak's own economic preferences as much as it does to the ability of reality to push past even the most extreme ideologies once it gets big and loud enough.
Australia's essentially Tory Government of the time responded much the same way for much the same reason and I can still hear the WHOOSH of hundreds of new slogans rushing in to fill the propaganda vacuum created by the sudden complete non-viability of "Debt and Deficit Disaster!"
Sunak is a Tory through and through, but unlike Johnson and Truss and Rees-Mogg and the rest of the ERG haw-haws he's capable of something approaching coherent thought. The furlough scheme doesn't prove that Sunak isn't as Tory as Tory can be, just that there are no monetarists in foxholes. Also that he had a good enough grasp of economics to understand that all of the money being handed out would fetch up, in fairly short order, in his own pockets and those of his ilk.
I will be astonished if he chooses to balance his budgets (and he will seek to balance them, because he knows that the financial sector likes to see that attempt made) by any method that doesn't enrich the wealthy and immiserate the poor, in the time-honoured fashion of his socioeconomic peer group.
posted by flabdablet at 3:19 AM on October 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
If you're talking about massive handouts to compensate for lost wages during the pandemic, I'm not sure that speaks to Sunak's own economic preferences as much as it does to the ability of reality to push past even the most extreme ideologies once it gets big and loud enough.
Australia's essentially Tory Government of the time responded much the same way for much the same reason and I can still hear the WHOOSH of hundreds of new slogans rushing in to fill the propaganda vacuum created by the sudden complete non-viability of "Debt and Deficit Disaster!"
Sunak is a Tory through and through, but unlike Johnson and Truss and Rees-Mogg and the rest of the ERG haw-haws he's capable of something approaching coherent thought. The furlough scheme doesn't prove that Sunak isn't as Tory as Tory can be, just that there are no monetarists in foxholes. Also that he had a good enough grasp of economics to understand that all of the money being handed out would fetch up, in fairly short order, in his own pockets and those of his ilk.
I will be astonished if he chooses to balance his budgets (and he will seek to balance them, because he knows that the financial sector likes to see that attempt made) by any method that doesn't enrich the wealthy and immiserate the poor, in the time-honoured fashion of his socioeconomic peer group.
posted by flabdablet at 3:19 AM on October 25, 2022 [4 favorites]
Wealthy crypto believer and incoming UK PM Rishi Sunak once commissioned a royal NFT
“It’s my ambition to make the U.K. a global hub for crypto-asset technology, and the measures we’ve outlined […] will help to ensure firms can invest, innovate and scale up in this country. This is part of our plan to ensure the U.K. financial services industry is always at the forefront of technology and innovation.”
So you've got that going for you, UK friends.
posted by clawsoon at 3:31 AM on October 25, 2022 [8 favorites]
“It’s my ambition to make the U.K. a global hub for crypto-asset technology, and the measures we’ve outlined […] will help to ensure firms can invest, innovate and scale up in this country. This is part of our plan to ensure the U.K. financial services industry is always at the forefront of technology and innovation.”
So you've got that going for you, UK friends.
posted by clawsoon at 3:31 AM on October 25, 2022 [8 favorites]
I'm not sure that speaks to Sunak's own economic preferences as much as it does to the ability of reality to push past even the most extreme ideologies once it gets big and loud enough
[...]
The furlough scheme doesn't prove that Sunak isn't as Tory as Tory can be
Did you miss the month and a half Liz Truss and Kwasi Kwarteng were setting policy? I don't expect that Sunak will push for broad redistributive policies, but he's a right winger, not an ultra right winger. There is a difference. Suffering less is still suffering, but it's also still less.
posted by Dysk at 4:38 AM on October 25, 2022 [5 favorites]
[...]
The furlough scheme doesn't prove that Sunak isn't as Tory as Tory can be
Did you miss the month and a half Liz Truss and Kwasi Kwarteng were setting policy? I don't expect that Sunak will push for broad redistributive policies, but he's a right winger, not an ultra right winger. There is a difference. Suffering less is still suffering, but it's also still less.
posted by Dysk at 4:38 AM on October 25, 2022 [5 favorites]
Sunak is a shark Tory like Rees-Mogg, not a remora Tory like Johnson or Truss or Kwarteng, and the UK has just put him in charge of the aquarium. And he knows full well that the Tories are toast at the next election, so he's completely free to stuff his face with as many sardines as he possibly can before then as long as he doesn't try to drain the whole tank the way that pair of Thatcher True Believer know-nothings just did.
Suffering less is still suffering, but it's also still less.
It's unconscionable that any of you have to suffer these fools at all.
posted by flabdablet at 5:05 AM on October 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
Suffering less is still suffering, but it's also still less.
It's unconscionable that any of you have to suffer these fools at all.
posted by flabdablet at 5:05 AM on October 25, 2022 [2 favorites]
The biography, written by journalists Harry Cole and James Heale was initially slated to be called Out of the Blue: The Inside Story of Liz Truss and Her Astonishing Rise to Power.
Maybe something more like “How to Go from Having Churchill’s Job to Being Quite a Tricky Pub Quiz Answer in One Year.”
Sunak is a shark Tory like Rees-Mogg,
Rees-Mogg apparently resigned from the government earlier today, so they may not be entirely sympatico. In any event, the correct metaphor for Rees-Mogg is “haunted Victorian pencil.”
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:35 AM on October 25, 2022 [6 favorites]
Maybe something more like “How to Go from Having Churchill’s Job to Being Quite a Tricky Pub Quiz Answer in One Year.”
Sunak is a shark Tory like Rees-Mogg,
Rees-Mogg apparently resigned from the government earlier today, so they may not be entirely sympatico. In any event, the correct metaphor for Rees-Mogg is “haunted Victorian pencil.”
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:35 AM on October 25, 2022 [6 favorites]
Any idea if the Rees-Mogg resignation has anything to do with his bill to wipe out all the retained EU laws?
posted by clawsoon at 6:46 AM on October 25, 2022
posted by clawsoon at 6:46 AM on October 25, 2022
The haunted Victorian pencil said in July that he would "of course" refuse to serve in a Sunak government – describing him as a "socialist chancellor". Apparently he'd changed his mind come last Tuesday, suggesting he would be willing to accept a ministerial position if wanted.
Surprise! He wasn't.
Sunak did pledge to drop/rewrite all EU retained law by end of this Parliament in the previous leadership round, so he might slow the bill down a bit (end-of 2024 instead of 2023), but it's a Brexiteer article of faith that EU regulation = bad and getting rid of all of it (such as those pettifogging workers rights and environmental protection) will lead to our glorious sunlit uplands. And Sunak is a true Brexiteer.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 7:11 AM on October 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Surprise! He wasn't.
Sunak did pledge to drop/rewrite all EU retained law by end of this Parliament in the previous leadership round, so he might slow the bill down a bit (end-of 2024 instead of 2023), but it's a Brexiteer article of faith that EU regulation = bad and getting rid of all of it (such as those pettifogging workers rights and environmental protection) will lead to our glorious sunlit uplands. And Sunak is a true Brexiteer.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 7:11 AM on October 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Sunak is a shark Tory like Rees-Mogg, not a remora Tory like Johnson or Truss or Kwarteng
Johnson was a lazy sod, so he didn't do much of anything he didn't have to and he has a pathological need to be liked and praised, so he was slow-walking the more controversial bits of Brexit ideology. But he was running out of road on delaying blowing up the NI protocol, and hence starting a trade war with the EU.
Truss and Kwarteng were absolutely true believers in the Tufton Street agenda - deregulate everything, eliminate tax on the rich, and starve the state. They decided to jump straight to the 'slash taxes for the rich' section first, and pay for it with massive borrowing and use high inflation to offset the cost (and bring the rest in after, such as the EU retained law scrappage bill). The markets saw that was a bad deal for them, and that the rest of the agenda would fail, just as trickle down always fails, and priced that risk into gilt yields, and the drop in sterling accordingly - the outcome of which is why they are no longer in Downing Street today.
Sunak may well have the same ultra-right attitude at heart - I'd be rather surprised if he didn't, as an original Brexiteer and eyewateringly rich to boot - but he's also smart enough to realise that you can't fleece the whole country in one go without people noticing, and that he needs to keep at least some ordinary voters on board. So he's not going to go at it like a bull in a china shop as Truss did, he's going to tread more carefully and hopefully at least try to look like he cares about the poor. And with only 2 years, that will hopefully limit how much damage he does. Whereas we were looking at a full on economic collapse under Truss by Christmas if her own MPs hadn't defenestrated her when she effectively doubled mortgage rates overnight and started talking about not uprating pensions etc and tory voters noticed.
I mean the poor, sick and disabled are still fucked, and the rest of us going to get poorer too, but that's a given with any goddamn Tory.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 7:33 AM on October 25, 2022 [9 favorites]
Johnson was a lazy sod, so he didn't do much of anything he didn't have to and he has a pathological need to be liked and praised, so he was slow-walking the more controversial bits of Brexit ideology. But he was running out of road on delaying blowing up the NI protocol, and hence starting a trade war with the EU.
Truss and Kwarteng were absolutely true believers in the Tufton Street agenda - deregulate everything, eliminate tax on the rich, and starve the state. They decided to jump straight to the 'slash taxes for the rich' section first, and pay for it with massive borrowing and use high inflation to offset the cost (and bring the rest in after, such as the EU retained law scrappage bill). The markets saw that was a bad deal for them, and that the rest of the agenda would fail, just as trickle down always fails, and priced that risk into gilt yields, and the drop in sterling accordingly - the outcome of which is why they are no longer in Downing Street today.
Sunak may well have the same ultra-right attitude at heart - I'd be rather surprised if he didn't, as an original Brexiteer and eyewateringly rich to boot - but he's also smart enough to realise that you can't fleece the whole country in one go without people noticing, and that he needs to keep at least some ordinary voters on board. So he's not going to go at it like a bull in a china shop as Truss did, he's going to tread more carefully and hopefully at least try to look like he cares about the poor. And with only 2 years, that will hopefully limit how much damage he does. Whereas we were looking at a full on economic collapse under Truss by Christmas if her own MPs hadn't defenestrated her when she effectively doubled mortgage rates overnight and started talking about not uprating pensions etc and tory voters noticed.
I mean the poor, sick and disabled are still fucked, and the rest of us going to get poorer too, but that's a given with any goddamn Tory.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 7:33 AM on October 25, 2022 [9 favorites]
Number 10: The Rt Hon Suella Braverman KC MP has been appointed Secretary of State for the Home Department.
.
Integrity, security and honour seem to take a back seat to "supported me last week."
posted by delfin at 9:21 AM on October 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
.
Integrity, security and honour seem to take a back seat to "supported me last week."
posted by delfin at 9:21 AM on October 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
Coffey at Environment. Blindly favours full deregulation so likely we can expect even worse from her than George "plenty more shit in the sea" Eustice. They got rid of Sharma completely, a week out from CoP27, so that bodes well for anything positive there.
Looks like it might be a cabinet for a while bonfire of environmental regs.
posted by biffa at 4:07 PM on October 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Looks like it might be a cabinet for a while bonfire of environmental regs.
posted by biffa at 4:07 PM on October 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
What's the over/under for when we'll see something like "BREAKING: Sunak has resigned"? I imagine this is something someone is betting on somewhere.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:57 PM on October 25, 2022
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:57 PM on October 25, 2022
There's already betting on who's next.
Next Prime Minister: Johnson early favourite to replace Sunak as Tory leader
posted by farlukar at 2:04 AM on October 26, 2022
Next Prime Minister: Johnson early favourite to replace Sunak as Tory leader
posted by farlukar at 2:04 AM on October 26, 2022
At the top of the thread I posted that Boris Johnson was at 14/1 to succeed Liz Truss. Halfway down the thread I was kicking myself for not putting money on as the odds had shrunk to 11/10. Now I'm glad I didn't.
For Prime Minister after Next General Election they're giving 1/4 on Keir Starmer, 3/1 on Rishi Sunak, 12/1 on Boris Johnson, 25/1 on Jeremy Hunt.
I can't see even the Tories doing another leadership change before the next election. Unlike Liz Truss, Rishi Sunak seems to have tried to get all the various Tory tribes represented in his cabinet which should quieten them down.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 2:33 AM on October 26, 2022
For Prime Minister after Next General Election they're giving 1/4 on Keir Starmer, 3/1 on Rishi Sunak, 12/1 on Boris Johnson, 25/1 on Jeremy Hunt.
I can't see even the Tories doing another leadership change before the next election. Unlike Liz Truss, Rishi Sunak seems to have tried to get all the various Tory tribes represented in his cabinet which should quieten them down.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 2:33 AM on October 26, 2022
Smart money's still on the lettuce.
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:41 AM on October 26, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:41 AM on October 26, 2022 [10 favorites]
TheophileEscargot: all the various Tory tribes
"And if Labour bring in PR, there's no longer any value in Tories staying in this hateful little death-spiral."
What are the actual chances of Labour bringing in proportional representation?
posted by clawsoon at 6:30 AM on October 26, 2022
"And if Labour bring in PR, there's no longer any value in Tories staying in this hateful little death-spiral."
What are the actual chances of Labour bringing in proportional representation?
posted by clawsoon at 6:30 AM on October 26, 2022
What are the actual chances of Labour bringing in proportional representation?
Well to do that they'd need to win under FPTP first, and if they win under FPTP... why would they bother changing to PR?
posted by EndsOfInvention at 6:35 AM on October 26, 2022
Well to do that they'd need to win under FPTP first, and if they win under FPTP... why would they bother changing to PR?
posted by EndsOfInvention at 6:35 AM on October 26, 2022
What are the actual chances of Labour bringing in proportional representation?
Slim to none:
Slim to none:
It is easy to understand why small parties want PR. The Greens, Liberal Democrats, Ukip, the Brexit party and the BNP have all been hard done by the current first-past-the-post (FPTP) system. The electoral rationale is far more puzzling for Labour. FPTP has unquestionably been to Labour’s advantage. In every postwar election, with the exception of the 1950s and 2019, Labour has received a greater share of House of Commons seats than its share of the popular vote. This boost has sometimes been very substantial, giving Labour majorities it would not otherwise have. Even in minority, Labour usually gets more MPs than its proportionate strength in the electorate.posted by TheophileEscargot at 6:52 AM on October 26, 2022 [6 favorites]
While this may seem “unfair” to opponents of Labour, it is strange that the party would voluntarily opt to weaken its own power. It is sometimes said that Labour should support PR, whatever the electoral costs, because it is “the right thing to do”. This attitude fetishises process and ignores the importance of outcomes. The FPTP system in Britain gives a boost to the major party of the left, making leftwing majority governments possible where they might not otherwise be. Surely, at least to party members, electing Labour governments is also “the right thing to do”.
There is also the alternative to consider. PR will not deliver majority leftwing governments in Britain. Supporters of PR like to think it will produce governments of Labour, Greens and Nationalists, collectively ushering together an eco-socialist political programme. The problem is there are not enough votes to do this under PR.
With the exception of the remarkable 1945 election, the British public have never voted in a majority for leftwing parties. Adding together the votes of Labour, the Greens, the SNP and Plaid Cymru at every other general election has never amounted to more than 50% of the vote. This is not to say that leftwing governments are impossible under PR, but there is virtually no evidence from British election history that more than 50% of British voters are prepared to vote for leftwing parties.
There's no evidence that more than 50% of British voters support the rightmost end of the Tory party either, and yet that's who keeps ending up in control under FPTP.
PR doesn't have to result in a left-wing government for it to be worthwhile for Labour to pursue. Just getting us to the point of having moderate governments that reflect the political centre of mass of the country would be a huge improvement in practice on so many of the axes on which Labour is supposed to care about.
Both the Labour and Conservative parties are failures. They are unwieldy coalitions held together only by the necessities of FPTP. Their internal factions have too little in common for either party to be able to present an effective and cohesive view on anything other than the act of taking and holding power itself. PR would mean the end of the Labour party, just as it would for the Tories. Both would cease to exist and splinter into smaller groups.
But those smaller parties could be far more representative of their voters, and more able to collaborate dynamically in new ways, than these two failed static coalitions at each side. And there's plenty of evidence to suggest that the governments that resulted would be further to the left than what we end up with on average under FPTP.
Whenever you poll people on policies, rather than parties, you find that left wing policies are popular. But that support will never translate well into one giant left-wing party, because people are diverse, in all sorts of ways and for all sorts of reasons. We need to have representation that reflects that.
Under FPTP the Tories will always have the edge, because those with power and money are always united in the pursuit of more power and more money.
If the Labour party cared about outcomes more than its own existence, PR should be a no brainer.
posted by automatronic at 7:58 AM on October 26, 2022 [8 favorites]
PR doesn't have to result in a left-wing government for it to be worthwhile for Labour to pursue. Just getting us to the point of having moderate governments that reflect the political centre of mass of the country would be a huge improvement in practice on so many of the axes on which Labour is supposed to care about.
Both the Labour and Conservative parties are failures. They are unwieldy coalitions held together only by the necessities of FPTP. Their internal factions have too little in common for either party to be able to present an effective and cohesive view on anything other than the act of taking and holding power itself. PR would mean the end of the Labour party, just as it would for the Tories. Both would cease to exist and splinter into smaller groups.
But those smaller parties could be far more representative of their voters, and more able to collaborate dynamically in new ways, than these two failed static coalitions at each side. And there's plenty of evidence to suggest that the governments that resulted would be further to the left than what we end up with on average under FPTP.
Whenever you poll people on policies, rather than parties, you find that left wing policies are popular. But that support will never translate well into one giant left-wing party, because people are diverse, in all sorts of ways and for all sorts of reasons. We need to have representation that reflects that.
Under FPTP the Tories will always have the edge, because those with power and money are always united in the pursuit of more power and more money.
If the Labour party cared about outcomes more than its own existence, PR should be a no brainer.
posted by automatronic at 7:58 AM on October 26, 2022 [8 favorites]
Looking at Europe, it's hard to see PR as a panacea. There are now explicitly far right parties taking part in government in Italy and Sweden. Other countries like Germany and France are keeping out the far right but at a cost: Germany with its unwieldy left-right coalitions, France by turning every Presidential election into National Front versus whatever.
In Germany, the mainstream right Christian Democrats would rather be out of power than form a coalition with the far-right AFD.
If you had a similar situation in Britain, where the Tories could stay in opposition out of principle, or form an alliance with a far-right party like the BNP, I think the Tories would sell out before you could blink.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 8:46 AM on October 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
In Germany, the mainstream right Christian Democrats would rather be out of power than form a coalition with the far-right AFD.
If you had a similar situation in Britain, where the Tories could stay in opposition out of principle, or form an alliance with a far-right party like the BNP, I think the Tories would sell out before you could blink.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 8:46 AM on October 26, 2022 [2 favorites]
I don't see PR as a panacea.
I do see it as a way that far more people could have their votes actually matter, rather than being sidelined because they have the misfortune to live anywhere other than a swing seat.
I see it as a way that people could have meaningful choices on the issues they care about, through having a wider choice of representation, instead than everything being reduced to a choice of two compromise platforms hashed out through internal party psychodrama.
I see it as a moderating factor, an alternative to complete deadlock or total polarisation. As something that would give us results that are, on average, less bad than what we have now. Yes, european implementations still have problems, but none of them have ended up pursuing the ideological insanity and economic suicide the UK has undertaken.
Most of all, I see it as one of the only things that could actually break they cycle and make a lasting change. As an alternative to a system that has been proven again and again to be completely, utterly broken in its present form.
Of course it's not a panacea that solves everything. Should that be the bar it has to clear to be worthwhile?
As to questions of the Tories and the far right: firstly, the idea that the Conservative party would continue to exist as a single political entity under PR is implausible in the first place. Discussing which which existing parties would do what under PR is a misguided exercise.
But even if the Tories persisted, and formed temporary alliances with far right parties - is that not perhaps preferable to the present system, under which the whole Conservative party more or less completely adopted the entire 1970 platform of the National Front, in its endless effort to reach out further and further to the right?
posted by automatronic at 9:26 AM on October 26, 2022 [5 favorites]
I do see it as a way that far more people could have their votes actually matter, rather than being sidelined because they have the misfortune to live anywhere other than a swing seat.
I see it as a way that people could have meaningful choices on the issues they care about, through having a wider choice of representation, instead than everything being reduced to a choice of two compromise platforms hashed out through internal party psychodrama.
I see it as a moderating factor, an alternative to complete deadlock or total polarisation. As something that would give us results that are, on average, less bad than what we have now. Yes, european implementations still have problems, but none of them have ended up pursuing the ideological insanity and economic suicide the UK has undertaken.
Most of all, I see it as one of the only things that could actually break they cycle and make a lasting change. As an alternative to a system that has been proven again and again to be completely, utterly broken in its present form.
Of course it's not a panacea that solves everything. Should that be the bar it has to clear to be worthwhile?
As to questions of the Tories and the far right: firstly, the idea that the Conservative party would continue to exist as a single political entity under PR is implausible in the first place. Discussing which which existing parties would do what under PR is a misguided exercise.
But even if the Tories persisted, and formed temporary alliances with far right parties - is that not perhaps preferable to the present system, under which the whole Conservative party more or less completely adopted the entire 1970 platform of the National Front, in its endless effort to reach out further and further to the right?
posted by automatronic at 9:26 AM on October 26, 2022 [5 favorites]
All this talk about PR vs FPTP ignores the fact that people know what system they are voting under. FPTP draws votes from smaller parties to 'compromise' votes for one of the two larger parties.
Many, many people would love to vote Green but are persuaded to vote Labour to keep out the big, bad Tories. So, of course it is in Labour's interest to keep the system as it is but that is not the same as saying it is good for the average voter to have a potential range of choices flattened to a binary vote. Of course, PR is fairer than FPTP. It is more representative and less winner-take-all. It seems ridiculous to argue otherwise.
With the exception of the remarkable 1945 election, the British public have never voted in a majority for leftwing parties. Adding together the votes of Labour, the Greens, the SNP and Plaid Cymru at every other general election has never amounted to more than 50% of the vote.
I wondered why the article left out the Lib Dems. And I see by consulting the article that it conveniently considers the Lib Dems a right-wing party. So, if you include the Lib Dems as left-wing then - Yes, the leftwing would get 50% of the vote in many elections.
Making some basic assumptions, you can also conclude that the Tories would not have gotten a majority at the 2019 election under PR.
posted by vacapinta at 9:55 AM on October 26, 2022 [7 favorites]
Many, many people would love to vote Green but are persuaded to vote Labour to keep out the big, bad Tories. So, of course it is in Labour's interest to keep the system as it is but that is not the same as saying it is good for the average voter to have a potential range of choices flattened to a binary vote. Of course, PR is fairer than FPTP. It is more representative and less winner-take-all. It seems ridiculous to argue otherwise.
With the exception of the remarkable 1945 election, the British public have never voted in a majority for leftwing parties. Adding together the votes of Labour, the Greens, the SNP and Plaid Cymru at every other general election has never amounted to more than 50% of the vote.
I wondered why the article left out the Lib Dems. And I see by consulting the article that it conveniently considers the Lib Dems a right-wing party. So, if you include the Lib Dems as left-wing then - Yes, the leftwing would get 50% of the vote in many elections.
Making some basic assumptions, you can also conclude that the Tories would not have gotten a majority at the 2019 election under PR.
posted by vacapinta at 9:55 AM on October 26, 2022 [7 favorites]
So, if you include the Lib Dems as left-wing then - Yes, the leftwing would get 50% of the vote in many elections.
Though in the 2019 election the Tories (43.6%) and LibDems (11.6%) would have had an easier time putting together a simple more cohesive working majority under PR than a creaky-looking alliance of perhaps Labour (32.1%) plus LibDems, SNP (3.9%) and Greens (2.6%). And despite them getting trampled during their time as coalition partners after the 2010 election (or so it appeared to this ignorant non-UK observer), I'd fear the LibDems would rather not compete with a number of other smaller but perhaps louder voices around the table, and they'd be (over?)confident that they wouldn't get jerked around again by the Tories, nope, not THIS time. But I agree, voter intention is going to be quite different when it's national (PR) vs. local (FPTP) vote share that's being tallied.
posted by hangashore at 11:58 AM on October 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
Though in the 2019 election the Tories (43.6%) and LibDems (11.6%) would have had an easier time putting together a simple more cohesive working majority under PR than a creaky-looking alliance of perhaps Labour (32.1%) plus LibDems, SNP (3.9%) and Greens (2.6%). And despite them getting trampled during their time as coalition partners after the 2010 election (or so it appeared to this ignorant non-UK observer), I'd fear the LibDems would rather not compete with a number of other smaller but perhaps louder voices around the table, and they'd be (over?)confident that they wouldn't get jerked around again by the Tories, nope, not THIS time. But I agree, voter intention is going to be quite different when it's national (PR) vs. local (FPTP) vote share that's being tallied.
posted by hangashore at 11:58 AM on October 27, 2022 [1 favorite]
The LibDems have been pushing for PR since they started, one of their key things arising from 2010 was a vote on it. It was unsuccessful. Basically they have been under-represented at Westminster in relation to the share of the votes they get. Their centre position opens up the possibility for a share of power in many PR playoffs. Labour have historically opposed PR but I wonder if losing all their Scottish seats to the SNP makes it considerably more attractive.
posted by biffa at 5:57 AM on October 31, 2022
posted by biffa at 5:57 AM on October 31, 2022
The Lib Dems sold out to the ConDem coalition for far less than a vote on PR. We got a referendum on "alternative vote" which was basically a ranked preference system that kept the FPTP constituency system.
posted by Dysk at 6:12 AM on October 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Dysk at 6:12 AM on October 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
But I agree, voter intention is going to be quite different when it's national (PR) vs. local (FPTP) vote share that's being tallied.
It's not automatically national vs. local - there are various different types of PR, which range from completely constituency based (e.g. PR-STV as used in Ireland) through a mixture (e.g. MMP as used in Germany) right through to list-based (e.g. Netherlands, I think).
They have different levels of "proportional-ness", generally playing off against how much you want to be able to choose a "local" MP but all are much closer than FPTP is. Even most of the list-systems do have some sort of breakdown - they tend not to do it nationally, but regionally instead.
Granted, the constiuencies even for PR-STV are going to be considerably larger than for FPTP, but on the other hand, you have several MPs per constituency, and usually you have a mixture of parties, so that at least one will be more useful to you. (Ireland, for example, typically has 3-5 seat constituencies, so you have 3-5 local TDs to contact.)
posted by scorbet at 9:45 AM on October 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
It's not automatically national vs. local - there are various different types of PR, which range from completely constituency based (e.g. PR-STV as used in Ireland) through a mixture (e.g. MMP as used in Germany) right through to list-based (e.g. Netherlands, I think).
They have different levels of "proportional-ness", generally playing off against how much you want to be able to choose a "local" MP but all are much closer than FPTP is. Even most of the list-systems do have some sort of breakdown - they tend not to do it nationally, but regionally instead.
Granted, the constiuencies even for PR-STV are going to be considerably larger than for FPTP, but on the other hand, you have several MPs per constituency, and usually you have a mixture of parties, so that at least one will be more useful to you. (Ireland, for example, typically has 3-5 seat constituencies, so you have 3-5 local TDs to contact.)
posted by scorbet at 9:45 AM on October 31, 2022 [1 favorite]
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