a look back at one of Capcom's most misunderstood RPGs

February 24, 2023 5:16 AM

Dragon's Dogma: Revisiting the cult fantasy RPG that found its own weird path to adventure [Games Radar] “On the surface, Dragon's Dogma appears a rote open-world action RPG – Japanese developer Capcom trying its hand at Western ideas and Tolkienesque fantasy. Dig deeper, however, and you discover something far more distinct and alluring. Capcom had its own vision for what a game like this could be: something built on turning left wherever its contemporaries turn right. At its core, Dragon's Dogma is about journeys – long, hard treks across its sprawling kingdom. It's about learning the landscape around you, managing dwindling supplies and the moment of relief when, after days on the road, you finally spot civilisation on the horizon. It's not afraid to inconvenience players in favour of giving its world and its quests a greater sense of scale. And it's not afraid to be scary – not simply hostile or difficult, but dangerous.” [YouTube][Game Trailer]

• Dragon's Dogma Is Getting The Fresh Chance It Deserves On Switch [Kotaku]

“In Dragon’s Dogma, you’re a dumb schmuck fisherman whose heart is ripped out by a dragon. You survive as the Arisen, a chosen hero destined to slay the beast. What follows is an ambling adventure through a hostile open world packed with chimera, ogres, and other massive creatures. Each new battle is a chance to test your mettle and experiment with an intricate job system that offers numerous ways to tackle challenges. It’s a bit janky, but God if it isn’t fantastic fun. Whether you’re using holy magic spells to zap a necromancer or smashing a golem’s gems to methodically down it, every single encounter in Dragon’s Dogma is amazing. Combat splits the difference between Dark Souls and Monster Hunter. [...] I was aware of the cult following Dragon’s Dogma had amassed, but I’d never poured much time into it myself. That was a huge mistake. This is a deep RPG where your job class matters and where each new trip through the world results in epic battles.”

• Making our own adventures in Dragon's Dogma [Eurogamer]

“Dragon's Dogma does have one ace up its sleeve: the character creator. Aside from being flexible in terms of the kind of character you can create, it also lets you create your very own sidekick, called a Pawn. You can also have two other pawns to make a party of four, but these pawns must be borrowed from other players in an online sharing system - you can't create them. And it's not just for show - your character's attributes matter. If they're too short, they can't pick up enemies or heavy objects. The bigger they are the slower they are. The character you create informs how the game plays and shapes the experience you have with it. It helps the game backs all this up with an immense amount of freedom. There are few hard barriers. If you want to do something the game will let you, whether that's skipping important quests or chucking NPCs off cliffs.”

• Cult hit RPG 'Dragon's Dogma' is finally getting a sequel [Engadget]

“Dragon's Dogma didn't rock the fantasy RPG world when it arrived in 2012, but it gradually developed a loyal fan base. If you're part of that group, you'll be glad to hear that Capcom has confirmed work on a sequel as part of a livestream celebrating the original's 10th anniversary. Not that there are many details, mind you. As Kotaku reports, game director Hideaki Itsuno shared the Dragon's Dogma II name, a logo and nothing else — don't expect a release in the near future, then. [...] It's safe to presume Dragon's Dogma II will target modern consoles like the PS5 and Xbox Series X. With that said, it's too soon to say much else. A lot has changed in the past decade, and a sequel will have to compete with action RPG rivals like Elden Ring. Still, this might give Capcom more room to address the original's flaws and otherwise shake up its game mechanics.”

posted by Fizz (34 comments total)

"They're masterworks, all. You can't go wrong"
posted by mysticreferee at 5:17 AM on February 24, 2023 [3 favorites]

You should play Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen. THIS IS WHY.
posted by Fizz at 5:32 AM on February 24, 2023 [1 favorite]

Also, DD:DA is a great example of a 7/10 game. It's not perfect but it has so much going for it and its interesting and fun in all the right places.

A few observations that spring to mind: The world is also deep. Night-time is dangerous and you will get destroyed if you're not careful or cautious. I also love the way this game gives attention to the small things. If you fall into the water, your equipment/weapons rust. Hold on to a fish too long and it will go rotten, thankfully though you can preserve it if you have the right ingredients. Need oil for your lantern at night, too bad you don't have a vial handy otherwise you could take some from the oil-pot around the corner.

These small details add a sense of realism that I greatly appreciate in a game like this. It might not be everyone's cup of tea but I LOVE this game wholeheartedly.
posted by Fizz at 5:42 AM on February 24, 2023 [4 favorites]

One of the most enjoyable (and brutal) fan-created challenges in DD is called the "Dark Arisen Challenge," where you advance the main game just far enough to get on the boat to Bitterblack Isle (the Dark Arisen expansion island), typically right after you beat the cyclops and create your own pawn. Then you have to stay on the island from there on out, trying to beat what's essentially endgame content with a character that has almost no skills/abilities/equipment at all.

It's really fucking hard, and really fucking fun. Try it, if you dare.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:45 AM on February 24, 2023 [2 favorites]

Holy shit!! That sounds amazing seanmpuckett!! Will be searching for a vod of that later this afternoon.
posted by Fizz at 5:49 AM on February 24, 2023

I found the guy name who created the Dark ArisenBitterblack Challenge - vageta311. Here's the rules. Here's an assassin run playlist.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:57 AM on February 24, 2023 [1 favorite]

I think this Monster Factory episode does a good job of showing all the best that Dragon's Dogma has to offer as a baseball simulator. It also highlights the reason I gave up on the game - travelling to any location through the wilderness involves navigating through a ceaseless ocean of one hundred thousand wolves, and goddamn does that get old fast.
posted by FatherDagon at 6:25 AM on February 24, 2023 [3 favorites]

I really need to go back and give this another go from scratch. It was pretty much an instant buy for my wife and I after we watched that Monster Factory episode: crawling around on the horse or cow or whatever was just such a delightful weird bit of design decision-making that we were like, fuck it, let's check this out. And it turned out to be a genuinely interesting game, if hard and janky in spots; I just got distracted by something shiny and forgot to go back.
posted by cortex at 6:29 AM on February 24, 2023 [2 favorites]

I want so badly to love Dragon's Dogma. I love flawed but unique works like Dragon's Dogma, and I love everything Dragon's Dogma is trying so ambitiously to do. Nearly everybody whose opinion I respect and gibe with loves Dragon's Dogma.

I have played the first 5-10 hours of Dragon's Dogma at least eight times. Just can't get over the hump.
posted by penduluum at 6:30 AM on February 24, 2023 [3 favorites]

I have played the first 5-10 hours of Dragon's Dogma at least eight times. Just can't get over the hump.

The opening act/tutorial is a bit slow to start b/c its really trying to teach you the rules of this world and the game you're inside of. If you are up for it, give it another go but go in with the understanding that the game doesn't truly open up until you get to Gran Soren.

The opening section can feel grindy so I get it, its not for everyone. And as many have mentioned up above, the game is a bit janky at times, but the action/combat/gameplay makes up for all of that. It truly does feel like Monster Hunter & Devil May Cry by way of Skyrim.
posted by Fizz at 6:36 AM on February 24, 2023 [1 favorite]

Looking at the videos now one really gets an appreciation for just how much money and effort they spent on the motion capture and combat rigging/animation. The characters in this decade old game have smoother, more realistic movement than a lot of AAA titles coming out even today. It's remarkable. Weapons feel like they have weight and inertia, and require your entire body to swing properly, who'd have thunk it.
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:48 AM on February 24, 2023 [3 favorites]

It makes sense, the director of the game is Hideaki Itsuno. They are mostly known for Devil May Cry. Going to share some quotes I found from an interview over at Destructoid where he talks a bit about his experience in game development:

“...game director Hideaki Itsuno explained that he went to Capcom founder Kenzo Tsujimoto and said “look, I want to make either Devil May Cry 5 or Dragon’s Dogma 2 next.” As relayed by Itsuno’s translator, “[Tsujimoto] said ‘Okay, do whatever you want. Do whichever one you want.’ So I thought, alright, y’know what… let’s do [Devil May Cry 5]. So we did that.” [...] The director feels that the original game was “kind of the biggest success in my mind, the one I’m most proud of” whereas Devil May Cry 5 has been “the hardest to work on,” the one “that took the most effort.””

posted by Fizz at 6:59 AM on February 24, 2023

Dragon's Dogma is awesome.

Part Monster Hunter, part Rougelike, part Open World RPG.

And the story, which is largely delivered by somewhat cheesy dialogue, is actually quite good.

The quality of the story kind of sneaks up on you and by the end, when you realize that
choices you've made actually matter to some degree (you literally decide the fates of a few of them), it's just brilliant.

It's starting to age a bit, even with mods, but it's still holds up as one of the best games, IMO, of its generation.
posted by jaded at 7:19 AM on February 24, 2023 [2 favorites]

penduluum: Same! I know Austin Walker (of Waypoint and Friends at the Table) loves this game. I've tried a couple of times to get into it and it just doesn't work for me at all.

I liked Oblivion a ton back in the day (and Skyrim too, to a lesser extent) so it's not like this genre doesn't work for me. I don't know what it is. Maybe when Dragon's Dogma 2 comes out I'll give it a shot and see if it clicks for me.
posted by JDHarper at 7:25 AM on February 24, 2023 [2 favorites]

I didn't discover DD until right after the Dark Arisen version came out on PS3. Absolutely love this game and I find it kind of baffling that it doesn't have a larger fan base. It certainly lacks in some areas, but really shines in a lot of ways. I have played it to completion (earning the platinum trophy) and then again when it was re-released for PS4.

I thought the pawn system was unique and cool, but I would prefer to create the support pawns myself in addition to the main pawn. Because I didn't have any personal friends to share pawns with, and therefore relied on those from strangers. Such a pain to search for good options. And wow... there were not only a ton of terrible pawns, but also a lot of sexualized ones (especially young looking pawns... ick). It was always sad having to let a great support pawn go because you'd leveled beyond them. If there was at least a way for support pawns to grow with your character and main pawn so you could keep the ones you like.

And it has one of the best character creation systems - even to this day, in my opinion. Really hoping the sequel maintains that aspect, and that the game has even more fashion options.
posted by Krulth at 9:22 AM on February 24, 2023

Really good character creators are a big selling point for people with body dysmorphia, whether it's weight or gender or what-have-you. I always created my ideal version of my body to play with, and that DD allows you real flexibility in size/proportions as well as making yourself look young or old -- and makes your morphology matter in speed, stamina, carry ability, strength, etc -- was one of the things that helped me feel really comfortable playing it. (I still haven't got far in Witcher 3 despite the fact that it's got almost all of my tickyboxes -- I don't want to play as Geralt! Why can't I make my own witcher?!)
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:29 AM on February 24, 2023 [3 favorites]

This looks like something I would love (I have hoooourrs in The Long Dark which also includes, rotting food, lampoil from cooking fish, and trudging for miles with wolves), but it looks very hard... Does it have a tourist-difficulty setting or something?
posted by Iteki at 10:05 AM on February 24, 2023

Does it have a tourist-difficulty setting or something?

It has the following difficulty options: Easy, Normal, Hard. I have been playing on Normal/default setting and while I have had occasional deaths, it has always felt fair even in those moments where I'm having my ass handed to me.
posted by Fizz at 10:10 AM on February 24, 2023 [2 favorites]

Difficulty in DD is gated mostly by player level; if you're under-leveled for the area you're in, god help you. If you're over-leveled, it's a cake walk. It's like traditional JRPGs in that way: if you're having a bad time, grind a bit and come back. Player skill helps, but most of the combat equations are gated around your level and equipment. Also it's not like a souls game, in that when you open your inventory (e.g. to recover health) time stops. So, if you get in over your head, you can heal up while running away.
posted by seanmpuckett at 10:35 AM on February 24, 2023 [1 favorite]

The other thing to adjust to is that there is no auto-save (at least not like modern auto-save). At certain events it will create a small save/restore point but outside of that you have to manually save to ensure you don't lose progress and get reset to an earlier restore point. If you die, it also offers you an option to retry with a lower difficulty.

It's an older game from a previous generation of gaming and so its just a small quirk that takes adjusting to. But a heads up for anyone who is considering giving this a whirl. It's from another time and we have a lot more convenience in the games we play in this current generation. But a small price to play a really beautiful and detailed RPG. Cheers.
posted by Fizz at 10:46 AM on February 24, 2023 [1 favorite]

I actually tried to play Dragon's Dogma for the first time last week and found it so Not For Me that I Alt-F4'd in lieu of picking a character class during the tutorial, but I would still highly recommend Austin Walker's The Only Game I Ever Replay.
posted by structuregeek at 10:47 AM on February 24, 2023

Great share structuregeek. Austin and Waypoint are why I discovered this game and why I love it so much. I'm on the exact same page as him when it comes to this game and why it ticks all the boxes in my head in a good way. :)
posted by Fizz at 11:03 AM on February 24, 2023 [1 favorite]

I'd forgotten about the wolves. My lasting memory is wandering around massive well-maintained cities populated by about six people. Did they run out of money before they got to writing the interesting bits?
posted by biffa at 11:11 AM on February 24, 2023

Speaking as one who is very intrigued but also very bad at games; how complex is combat? I'm not very good at twitchy hand-eye coordination...
posted by The otter lady at 11:27 AM on February 24, 2023

It can be technical but I don't think it's a requirement to be great at hand-eye coordination to enjoy playing the game. You can smash most of the buttons (I know I do).

The archery stuff might require a bit more precision but it's pretty forgiving and if you grind and get a bit over-leveled, you'll not really have to worry about feeling outmatched by any of the enemies.
posted by Fizz at 12:10 PM on February 24, 2023

Playing as a mage character you're mostly standing back and cycling through attack, healing and buff spells while your fighter pawns (your AI controlled party members) do direct damage and keep the aggro off you.

--

I think one of the reason the cities are a little emptier than one would really want is that the npc that are there have fairly serious time-based agendas. They come and go, wander around, have conversations, do things. In the consoles of 10 years ago, managing even a hundred of those would be a big ask. Today it would be a breeze but surprisingly many AAA games still don't give their NPC characters a "life" like Dragon's Dogma does.
posted by seanmpuckett at 12:12 PM on February 24, 2023

I think one of the reason the cities are a little emptier than one would really want is that the npc that are there have fairly serious time-based agendas.

I also like to just RP this emptiness a bit. This is a harsh world and only a few people are lucky enough to be inside the castle walls under the protection of the lord/monarchy whatever.
posted by Fizz at 12:33 PM on February 24, 2023 [1 favorite]

I remembered I wanted to say how scary and exciting it is to wonder around at night, especially in the woods. Even when you brought enough lamp oil it was still pretty black. I recall in my first playthrough barely repelling some wolves and thinking I was in the clear, only to stumble into some terrifying undead. And then there's the whole Catacombs area...

Not hating on Skyrim (it was great too) but there's always candles or fires everywhere; you never experience that kinda dread in the darkness like you do in DD. Good times.
posted by Krulth at 1:47 PM on February 24, 2023 [1 favorite]

get on the boat to Bitterblack Isle (the Dark Arisen expansion island)

Huh, I thought that place felt weirdly difficult when I ended up there.
posted by entity447b at 2:37 PM on February 24, 2023 [1 favorite]

Well, I reinstalled it and started up a new game, with my brick shithouse blue mohawk punk grrl fighter and her dour goth best friend/pawn who looks like if Adam Driver weighed seventy pounds soaking wet and had scoliosis, and we are gonna save the fucking world.
posted by cortex at 2:40 PM on February 24, 2023 [5 favorites]

Went out at night, got attacked by some mages who proceeded to fuck me up. It was awesome.
posted by Fizz at 7:30 PM on February 24, 2023

Well, now I know what I'm doing the next few nights when my spouse is out of town.
posted by mollweide at 8:14 PM on February 24, 2023 [1 favorite]

I've tried so many times to like this game, but bounced off it in the first couple of hours. I don't mind hard games (I adored and got subsumed by Elden Ring) but there's something about the games 'feel' and interfaces that I just don't get on with. I can't put my finger on it. I want to love it though...
posted by d_hill at 3:07 AM on February 25, 2023

Oh lord, the game had defaulted to Offline mode when I went back to it yesterday and it occurred to me to turn it back to Online so I could see other people's weird pawns again, and I just used an inn to rest and got the "your pawn has returned from helping another arisen" message. And I was like, cool, someone this morning took my little goth sidekick out for a bit.

No, I have 117,284 new RC points from six different people running with my old pawn in the ensuing YEARS since I've played the game. Alright then!
posted by cortex at 10:30 AM on February 25, 2023 [5 favorites]