TRUMP INDICTED

March 30, 2023 3:10 PM

Surely this.

Grand Jury Votes to Indict Donald Trump in New York: Live Updates [NYTimes]

TRUMP INDICTED [CNN]

Donald Trump indicted over 2016 hush money payment to Stormy Daniels [Guardian]

Former US President Trump faces charges in New York [Al Jazeera]

posted by Ahmad Khani (621 comments total)

Yay. He’s a martyr now.
posted by Optamystic at 3:12 PM on March 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

Been hitting refresh on Metafilter for the last 1/2 hour, waiting for this.
posted by Melismata at 3:15 PM on March 30, 2023 [43 favorites]

Spent so much time waiting for this lever to finally be pulled... The process from here will be lengthy so this trial won't be wrapping up this year.

Now that the seal has been broken, it will be interesting to see what comes out of the pipeline next. There are at least 2 if not 3 or 4 others that I can think of off the top of my head.

(Also, didn't they just tell us, like, yesterday, that this was a no-go for the next month because the grand jury was going into recess? Sneaky, but I sort of suspected.)
posted by hippybear at 3:16 PM on March 30, 2023 [9 favorites]

Whatever gets the Paltrow Ski Trial out of the news cycle.
posted by msbutah at 3:16 PM on March 30, 2023 [88 favorites]

Surely!!! This!!!!!
posted by potrzebie at 3:17 PM on March 30, 2023 [15 favorites]

Is it a small thing? Yes.
Will the outcome make people happy? Most likely, no.

But I’ll take it. I’ll take it for the six? seven? fucking years I’ve had to have my head verbally patted with “don’t worry little hysterical woman, you are just imagining things”.
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 3:17 PM on March 30, 2023 [79 favorites]

Yay. He’s a martyr now

you're right, we should just ignore him. maybe he'll go away
posted by Dr. Twist at 3:17 PM on March 30, 2023 [139 favorites]

Rolling Stone:
"It is also unprecedented.
Trump is the first former president to face criminal prosecution in the history of the United States."
posted by clavdivs at 3:18 PM on March 30, 2023 [26 favorites]

I was just thinking that if I was going to make this post I'd title it Surely This. Thank you for the title! It is an excellent one and maybe oh maybe oh PLEASE, it really will be true this time.
posted by mygothlaundry at 3:18 PM on March 30, 2023 [11 favorites]

Don’t get me wrong, I think he deserves prison, but not for this bullshit, and this indictment will cast a shadow over the other (much stronger) cases.
posted by Optamystic at 3:19 PM on March 30, 2023 [5 favorites]

Don’t get me wrong, I think he deserves prison, but not for this bullshit, and this indictment will cast a shadow over the other (much stronger) cases.

Nah. It won't. It will empower other prosecutors to pull the proverbial trigger on the other (much stronger) cases.
posted by Etrigan at 3:21 PM on March 30, 2023 [123 favorites]

Say "Law and Order! You can't even say it!"
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 3:21 PM on March 30, 2023 [4 favorites]

He’s a martyr now.

Good, blah blah blah, don't care, let him martyr himself into a supermax. Only downside is that voters can't follow him into prison without committing more violence.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:21 PM on March 30, 2023 [54 favorites]

Can still be charged with other crimes, and likely will be if they are indeed "much stronger."
The oft-made comparison to Capone is germane.
posted by Ahmad Khani at 3:21 PM on March 30, 2023 [24 favorites]

A highly valid hot take [WaPo link]:

Yusef Salaam, one of the five people exonerated for the Central Park jogger attack decades ago, released a brief statement Thursday about Donald Trump’s reported indictment. After noting that Trump had never apologized for taking out a full-page ad calling for the death penalty against Salaam and his co-defendants, he said: “Karma.”
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:21 PM on March 30, 2023 [158 favorites]

Who's up for donating to pay for a full-page ad calling for the death penalty?
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 3:25 PM on March 30, 2023 [75 favorites]

Yay. He’s a martyr now.

I don't care... Throw the fucker in jail.....
posted by Pendragon at 3:25 PM on March 30, 2023 [10 favorites]

I hope there’s some notice on the perp walk so I can schedule a vacation day.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 3:26 PM on March 30, 2023 [12 favorites]

I just heard them read out his statement on CNN. The man is a masterful troll.

This is Political Persecution and Election Interference at the highest level in history. From the time I came down the golden escalator at Trump Tower, and even before I was sworn in as your President of the United States, the Radical Left Democrats — the enemy of the hard-working men and women of this Country — have been engaged in a Witch-Hunt to destroy the Make America Great Again movement.

&c &c &c
posted by chavenet at 3:28 PM on March 30, 2023 [1 favorite]

It goes without saying that he's the first PUSA to be charged with a crime (as we've been reminded in nearly every headline today) because he's been the most blatantly criminal PUSA ever. Let the MAGA crowd rage over this one, it will make the subsequent ones easier and easier and easier.
posted by OHenryPacey at 3:29 PM on March 30, 2023 [28 favorites]

I want a HOT FUZZ-style rapid fire montage of his mugshot being taken.
posted by brundlefly at 3:32 PM on March 30, 2023 [19 favorites]

Hey, he finally won a popular vote!
posted by riotnrrd at 3:33 PM on March 30, 2023 [204 favorites]

What happens now? He's in another state; does he get arrested in Florida by Florida cops and extradited to New York? How do they get him there?
posted by mygothlaundry at 3:34 PM on March 30, 2023

I want a video of Hillary saying "Lock him up" in the most droll, sardonic way possible.
posted by OHenryPacey at 3:34 PM on March 30, 2023 [39 favorites]

$20 says Fani Willis rolls up the bitch-made motherfucker in 30 days (and is quickly followed by others)
posted by ivanthenotsoterrible at 3:34 PM on March 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

Finally, a U.S. politics post I can really get behind. Thank you, time, for finally getting us here.
posted by heyho at 3:34 PM on March 30, 2023 [14 favorites]

Trump Grand Jury Digs Into Hush Money Paid to Second Woman (Wall Street Journal)

Manhattan prosecutors investigating Donald Trump’s role in paying hush money to a porn star also have been examining a $150,000 payment to a former Playboy model who alleged that she had an affair with the former president, according to people familiar with the matter, raising the prospect that Mr. Trump could face charges connected to the silencing of both women.

posted by escape from the potato planet at 3:35 PM on March 30, 2023 [16 favorites]

lock him up
posted by hydra77 at 3:38 PM on March 30, 2023 [13 favorites]

Yay. He’s a martyr now.
posted by Optamystic at 3:12 PM on March 30
[+] [!]

Eponysterical?
posted by rhizome at 3:38 PM on March 30, 2023 [6 favorites]

I just read his statement on CNN. So, if I’ve got this right, the “golden escalator of Trump Tower” (insert stair joke here) is good, but the ivory tower of academia is bad? Also, don’t forget to daub the George Soros square of your Trumprage bingo card.

But seriously, golden escalator?
posted by Ruki at 3:38 PM on March 30, 2023 [9 favorites]

Hilariously I found out by this story being the first post on the home page, I haven't looked at a news site all day.

Seems right.
posted by karlshea at 3:39 PM on March 30, 2023 [5 favorites]

I sorta now expect the House to push-through articles of impeachment against Biden asap, in retaliation. I mean, they were inching their way toward it anyway.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:39 PM on March 30, 2023 [11 favorites]

What happens now? He's in another state; does he get arrested in Florida by Florida cops and extradited to New York? How do they get him there?

The Secret Service and Alvin Bragg are working out the details about how to get him into the courthouse for his arraignment. It's a complicated process. It's most likely going to be a willing process instead of handcuff and a perp walk. But then, with this guy, he could engineer anything.
posted by hippybear at 3:40 PM on March 30, 2023 [8 favorites]

HA-HA.gif
posted by lalochezia at 3:40 PM on March 30, 2023 [4 favorites]

Also, don’t forgetto daub the George Soros square of your Trumprage bingo card.

That's the free space in the middle.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 3:41 PM on March 30, 2023 [19 favorites]

Is it wrong that I kind of want Trump supporters to fuck around, so that I might enjoy the spectacle of them finding out?
posted by escape from the potato planet at 3:41 PM on March 30, 2023 [26 favorites]

Hey, he finally won a popular vote!

Delicious.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:41 PM on March 30, 2023 [6 favorites]

just thinkin' about art for no reason
posted by cortex at 3:42 PM on March 30, 2023 [28 favorites]

Bigly sad!
posted by Calvin and the Duplicators at 3:44 PM on March 30, 2023 [2 favorites]

Dictionary dot com usefully also displays the phonetic pronounciation.
posted by Wordshore at 3:44 PM on March 30, 2023 [5 favorites]

Hey, he finally won a popular vote!

I straight up cackled at this.
posted by brundlefly at 3:45 PM on March 30, 2023

How do they get him there?

Ironically, by the folks assigned to protect him.
posted by clavdivs at 3:46 PM on March 30, 2023 [7 favorites]

The Secret Service and Alvin Bragg are working out the details about how to get him into the courthouse for his arraignment.

It's amazing to think of the torn between...to just not go would be his go to I think but he also loves the limelight so cameras are on. I'm assuming a slight delay and then a gracious walk and wave to fans.

As good as it is to see some small gesture towards justice, I am afraid of further violence. Fervently hoping things remain calm and his fans think this is a nothing burger.
posted by tiny frying pan at 3:46 PM on March 30, 2023 [2 favorites]

I sorta now expect the House to push-through articles of impeachment against Biden asap, in retaliation. I mean, they were inching their way toward it anyway.

They're also monumentally incompetent, however. I'm not sure they can manage the logistics.
posted by mr_roboto at 3:47 PM on March 30, 2023 [6 favorites]

The golden escalator descended into the parking lot of a landscape business
posted by downtohisturtles at 3:47 PM on March 30, 2023 [28 favorites]

"Hard to believe that Donald Trump having sex resulted in something worse for him than Don Jr." - The Daily Show
posted by mbo at 3:48 PM on March 30, 2023 [100 favorites]

I think he deserves prison, but not for this bullshit

Yeah, I don't know who does think this campaign disclosure violation is worthy of jail time. In a way, the smallness of the charge is good, in that you can easily imagine how a grown-up professional would deal with it (i.e. settle with minimal drama) and contrast that with whatever our clown prince will do.
posted by anhedonic at 3:49 PM on March 30, 2023 [6 favorites]

Gasps at Fox News as Donald Trump indicted for Stormy Daniels hush money payment
posted by tzikeh at 3:50 PM on March 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

Now do his kids.
posted by seanmpuckett at 3:50 PM on March 30, 2023 [24 favorites]

Guys, he's very upset that HE'S BEEN INDICATED.

The man just cannot stop being so ungodly stupid.
posted by revmitcz at 3:51 PM on March 30, 2023 [36 favorites]

I think he deserves prison, but not for this bullshit

Meh. They got Capone on tax evasion. Whatever works to gets the shithead off the street is fine by me.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:52 PM on March 30, 2023 [49 favorites]

Been hitting refresh on Metafilter for the last seven years, waiting for this.
posted by chrchr at 3:52 PM on March 30, 2023 [131 favorites]

While T**** is the first former president to be indicted, one president was actually arrested.
posted by SPrintF at 3:53 PM on March 30, 2023 [7 favorites]

revmitcz: Guys, he's very upset that HE'S BEEN INDICATED.

From that post: "THIS IS AN ATTACK ON OUR COUNTRY THE LIKES OF WHICH HAS NEVER BEEN SEEN BEFORE."

I mean, where do you even start.
posted by tzikeh at 3:56 PM on March 30, 2023 [18 favorites]

Trump Grand Jury Digs Into Hush Money Paid to Second Woman

And I'm sure that they can find many, many more. The woman who alleged that in 1994, Donald Trump raped her when she was a 13 year old sex slave of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, withdrew her lawsuit on November 4th 2016, when Donald Trump's personal lawyer and bagman, convicted felon Michael Cohen was touring the country writing checks.

Doe v. Trump (1:16-cv-07673) District Court, S.D. New York
posted by mikelieman at 3:57 PM on March 30, 2023 [22 favorites]

Martyrs die.

I've had a pretty great month, had a run of good luck and things are going well.

But, alas.

A martyr he is not.
posted by phunniemee at 3:57 PM on March 30, 2023 [21 favorites]

This is an honor that should have gone to Ronald Reagan, to be honest.
posted by delfin at 3:58 PM on March 30, 2023 [53 favorites]

George Washington should have been indicted for a lot of things.
posted by chrchr at 4:00 PM on March 30, 2023

ironically, President Grant gave $20 collateral, paid the $5 fine and didn't show up to court.
posted by clavdivs at 4:02 PM on March 30, 2023 [6 favorites]

The final scene of Sunset Blvd. seems appropriate about now. Supposedly Trump's favorite movie?
posted by nanook at 4:02 PM on March 30, 2023 [6 favorites]

"Oh, I didn't come to ask any more questions. I came to arrest you."

Lieutenant Columbo
posted by swift at 4:03 PM on March 30, 2023 [17 favorites]

'Double Indamity'
posted by clavdivs at 4:03 PM on March 30, 2023 [5 favorites]

"Double Indicated"
posted by chavenet at 4:05 PM on March 30, 2023 [4 favorites]

Happy Indictment day everyone. Metafilter helped keep me sane during the Trump administration and after.
posted by Twain Device at 4:07 PM on March 30, 2023 [55 favorites]

Fuck that guy.
posted by SoberHighland at 4:07 PM on March 30, 2023 [19 favorites]

The problem is that the US should never have gone nearly a quarter of a millennium before putting any former Presidents up on charges. Off the top of my head there should have been consequences for Chester Arthur (corruption/ NY Customs house criminal enterprise), Harding (Teapot Dome), Nixon (All of the various Watergate charges), Reagan (Iran/Contra), Clinton (perjury in office, harassment and likely rape going way back to the Arkansas governor's mansion), Bush 2 (fraudulent initiation of an invasion), and now Trump.

And this doesn't even get into the more "maybe it was illegal/maybe it wasn't" grey zones for people like McKinley, (Teddy) Roosevelt, Lyndon Johnson, and probably a bunch of others.

It's appalling that it took the likes of Donald Fucking Trump for any of these people to stop skating just because they were top dog.

In an America that was even just a BIT closer to successfully implementing the rule of law where the rich are not mostly immune from consequences, Trump would have never made it to the White House in the first place as he would have been convicted of crimes going all the way back to the 70s. There would have been no Art of the Deal, and no decade and a half of Trump Competence Propaganda dressed up as a reality TV show.
posted by tclark at 4:10 PM on March 30, 2023 [107 favorites]

I kind of love how the only people who think there's going to be riots in the streets are the NYPD.
posted by phooky at 4:11 PM on March 30, 2023 [13 favorites]

Thomas Jefferson coulda said something about the presidency and crime when it came to constitutional credibility...OH WAIT.
posted by clavdivs at 4:11 PM on March 30, 2023

First president to lose the popular vote twice.
First president to be impeached twice.
First president to be indicted after losing office.

He should update his LinkedIn profile.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:12 PM on March 30, 2023 [57 favorites]

I want to gently push back on the idea that this was a minor crime. Rather, it gets to the heart of the ways in which money, especially after the Citizens United ruling, fundamentally skews our democratic institutions. That’s a foundational issue/problem.
posted by eviemath at 4:13 PM on March 30, 2023 [106 favorites]

Or, also what tclark said.
posted by eviemath at 4:14 PM on March 30, 2023 [1 favorite]

IANAL; nothing I say constitutes legal advice.

Generally, at a federal level, trial is supposed to commence within 70 days of the indictment. With waiver of a speedy trial, typical cases can be moved out to about 180 days from indictment. This is anything but a typical case.
Generally, a delay of more than eight months in a trail can become the basis for a violation of right to a speedy trial.

Historically, the record for the longest criminal trial in American history was the Martin preschool abuse trial, which began with charges in 1984 and ended with no convictions in 1990.

I hate to be the one to say 'Ain't Nothing Going to Happen', but let's be honest; any deductions in the polls that Trump 2024 receives for the trial will be offset by the boost from the relentless media attention and amplification of his soapbox.

Conviction will not prevent his campaign organization from operating. A criminal record is not legal bar to candidacy to the office of President.

In 2025, we may be looking at our first President who is an officially convicted felon. At least, for the span of days that it takes him to pardon himself.
posted by LeRoienJaune at 4:14 PM on March 30, 2023 [4 favorites]

*eagerly awaits an update from The Card Cheat*

Seriously though, today is a good day, despite me only having one can of Dr. Pepper left in the fridge. May more days like this follow.
posted by May Kasahara at 4:15 PM on March 30, 2023 [5 favorites]

Harding (Teapot Dome) that killed him. Nixon resigned, pardoned, Arthur got his shuffled around, Grant, skin of his teeth. Clinton impeached.

Calvin Cooledge quietly re-turned the candy bar.
posted by clavdivs at 4:16 PM on March 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

Yeah but what about the stick up his ass?
posted by y2karl at 4:20 PM on March 30, 2023 [2 favorites]

Conviction will not prevent his campaign organization from operating.

Yeah, but will he have access to his self-tanning(?) face cream in prison? (I mean, it's obviously petty, but I genuinely think he could never have gotten close to winning without the face cream.)
posted by nobody at 4:22 PM on March 30, 2023 [4 favorites]

In 2025, we may be looking at our first President who is an officially convicted felon. At least, for the span of days that it takes him to pardon himself.

He would have been convicted in NY State under NY State laws. The president only has pardon power over federal crimes.
posted by mr_roboto at 4:22 PM on March 30, 2023 [31 favorites]

*eagerly awaits an update from The Card Cheat*

Has there been an official announcement? Or are we still at the "sources close to the investigation" stage? At any rate, I'm not paying out until it's official.
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:23 PM on March 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

Hey, he finally won a popular vote!
posted by riotnrrd at 6:33 PM on March 30

Flagged as fantastic.
posted by Mchelly at 4:24 PM on March 30, 2023 [7 favorites]

Yeah, but will he have access to his self-tanning(?) face cream in prison?

Based on the reverse-raccoon appearance he has had frequently, that's a spray-on color, not a cream that's being applied.
posted by hippybear at 4:24 PM on March 30, 2023 [2 favorites]

> The final scene of Sunset Blvd. seems appropriate about now. Supposedly Trump's favorite movie?

That can't possibly be true because a) it's too good for someone with Trump's taste to like it that much, and b) he's not in it. Home Alone 2 would qualify on both fronts, though.
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:26 PM on March 30, 2023 [1 favorite]

Has there been an official announcement?

The main headline on Fox News' website right now begins "TRUMP CHARGED; FORMER PRESIDENT INDICTED..."
posted by Earthtopus at 4:26 PM on March 30, 2023 [1 favorite]

Perhaps he'll be able to sing in person with that Jan. 6 choir?
posted by jabo at 4:26 PM on March 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

Trump is the first president in history to be brought down by a Party Down guest star.
posted by bondcliff at 4:27 PM on March 30, 2023 [16 favorites]

money people like money, don't think he'll make them money, he's got no real money.

Scared money don't make no money.
posted by clavdivs at 4:29 PM on March 30, 2023 [7 favorites]

well, here's a slice of humble pie that I will now eat after stating in the previous trump getting arrested thread that he never would be

*munches*
posted by awfurby at 4:29 PM on March 30, 2023 [5 favorites]

Happy birthday to me!
posted by blnkfrnk at 4:30 PM on March 30, 2023 [38 favorites]

In retrospect, it's a little surprising that he paid hush money for all this sex instead of bragging about it. I know that he was trying to win the Evangelical vote with the "baby Christian" schtick, but surely someone could've coached him on the proper Evangelical way to humblebrag about all the sins you did before you found Jesus.
posted by clawsoon at 4:30 PM on March 30, 2023 [15 favorites]

Ok, a brief review of our indictable Presidents:

George Washington: tricky, but his rebellion does leave him liable to a charge of treason and mutiny against the Royal government.
Same for Adams, Jefferson, Madison, James Monroe; traitors all, the lot of them.

Thomas Jefferson: Rape (of Sally Hemings and other slaves).

Madison: Aggression (an international crime) with the War of 1812.

Andrew Jackson: genocide, crimes against humanity (Trail of Tears).

Van Buren: genocide, crimes against humanity (the Seminole Wars).

William Harrison: crimes against humanity (wars against the Federation of Tecumseh)

James K. Polk: aggression (Mexican-American War).

Zachary Taylor: genocide (Seminole War)

Abraham Lincoln: unlawful detention of American citizens without writ of habeas corpus.

Andrew Johnson: Public inebriation,

Ulysses Grant: Genocide, crimes against humanity, corruption

Rutherford Hayes: corruption (Compromise of 1877), violation of elections code.

Chester A. Arthur: corruption

McKinley- aggression, genocide

Theodore Roosevelt- genocide.

Really, when you add international crimes to the standards, most of our Presidents are criminals. I'd say that Carter and Ford may have been the last presidents to not be indictable.
posted by LeRoienJaune at 4:30 PM on March 30, 2023 [14 favorites]

fuck imagine if Biden pardoned him - that would fuck with his head so hard. cognitive dissonance everywhere
posted by awfurby at 4:31 PM on March 30, 2023 [6 favorites]

> The main headline on Fox News' website right now begins "TRUMP CHARGED; FORMER PRESIDENT INDICTED..."

Yeah, same with CNN, etc., but none seem to actually include a statement from the Manhattan district attorney's office. Not that I'm doubting that It's Happening, but until then...no Dr. Pepper for my friend.
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:31 PM on March 30, 2023 [5 favorites]

My American friend has been saving a special cigar and a bottle of scotch for this day. And this is a guy who's voted Republican for most of his life.
posted by klanawa at 4:32 PM on March 30, 2023 [18 favorites]

With any luck, Fuckface von Clownstick and the Florida Fascist will split the fascist vote and disembowel the whole stinking apparatus.

A fella can dream, right..?
posted by ZakDaddy at 4:37 PM on March 30, 2023 [18 favorites]

I am drinking a nice glass of 2017 Antoniolo Gattinara Riserva in Honor of the Mafia Don feeling some heat. (Wish I had some 2016 for poetry, but eh, whatyagonnado)
posted by lalochezia at 4:37 PM on March 30, 2023 [7 favorites]

awfurby: well, here's a slice of humble pie that I will now eat after stating in the previous trump getting arrested thread that he never would be

Let's not get ahead of ourselves, here, in the Worst Timeline. Save that pie for after it actually happens.
posted by tzikeh at 4:37 PM on March 30, 2023 [1 favorite]

surely someone could've coached him on the proper Evangelical way to humblebrag about all the sins you did before you found Jesus.

You gotta apologize for that to work, though, even if no one has any doubts as to how sincere your apology is.
posted by Etrigan at 4:38 PM on March 30, 2023 [6 favorites]

Yes, what's everyone drinking?
posted by Ahmad Khani at 4:40 PM on March 30, 2023 [2 favorites]

Andrew Johnson: Public inebriation,

Finally. A President I can relate to.
posted by brundlefly at 4:40 PM on March 30, 2023 [16 favorites]

Speaking of which, my local bar of choice doesn't open for another twenty minutes. FFS, let's get this done!
posted by brundlefly at 4:41 PM on March 30, 2023 [6 favorites]

I'd drink tonight, but I got an audition. Maybe when I get home.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:42 PM on March 30, 2023 [9 favorites]

On the other hand now every Democratic President until the end of time is gonna get indicted in TX, MS, KS and maybe FL, because we are in the stupidest timeline.
posted by aramaic at 4:42 PM on March 30, 2023 [19 favorites]

I'm not going to link to any of them here because this sort of thing is all we're gonna hear for the rest of our lives, but wow is the right wingnutosphere going nuclear with the takes about how this indictment of perhaps literally the most corrupt human being to have ever lived is the greatest miscarriage of justice in the history of the world, etc..
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:42 PM on March 30, 2023 [11 favorites]

In retrospect, it's a little surprising that he paid hush money for all this sex instead of bragging about it.

Well, in the very least it's got something to do with his marriage to Melania. He seems to genuinely wish to conceal it from her for whatever reason. The right loathed Hillary for sticking with Bill, so maybe they had focus groups that found that cheating on his wife and then laughing it off was an exception to the "shoot a guy in the middle of fifth avenue" rule.
posted by anhedonic at 4:42 PM on March 30, 2023 [5 favorites]

Yes, what's everyone drinking?
A Gigantic Brewing Most Most Premium Imperial Stout aged in Mezcal barrels. So good.
posted by perhapses at 4:43 PM on March 30, 2023 [5 favorites]

With any luck, Fuckface von Clownstick and the Florida Fascist

I just got chastised for laughing at the childish humor.

It was worth it. This will be my new band name.
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 4:44 PM on March 30, 2023 [7 favorites]

The president can only pardon federal crimes. Honest question: could the governor of New York pardon him? (Not likely the current governor, but a future one?)
posted by m@f at 4:44 PM on March 30, 2023

(just opened a 2015 bottle of Sassicaia I'd been holding onto)
posted by Ahmad Khani at 4:45 PM on March 30, 2023 [4 favorites]

I'd drink tonight, but I got an audition. Maybe when I get home.

Depending on the leanings of those before whom you are auditioning, you might win the part just by bringing in a bottle of sparkling and some glasses to raise a toast.
posted by hippybear at 4:45 PM on March 30, 2023 [8 favorites]

YOUR ALL DRINKING AND IM SMOKING ...
posted by clavdivs at 4:46 PM on March 30, 2023 [13 favorites]

I just got chastised for laughing at the childish humor.

That's professionally generated childish humor by one Jon Stewart, whom Trump was lambasting about something and using Jonathan Liebowitz (Stewart's birth name) to try to shame him for being Jewish, or something. Stewart pulled out the Fuckface von Clownstick as a response. All this is from, like, a decade ago, and is detailed in a link earlier in this post.
posted by hippybear at 4:47 PM on March 30, 2023 [18 favorites]

I'm curious about whether this will pry open more things, once facts and evidence start getting introduced during court proceedings, that other investigations can more easily include.

Walmart in the 80s famously had a scorched-earth lawsuit defense policy: deny everything, fight everything, settle nothing. There were scenes where a Walmart lawyer would deny a piece of paper that had been accepted into evidence by other plaintiffs in another case. It was absurd but effective, until lawyers for plaintiffs started communicating with each other, telling each other about evidence they knew existed, about rulings that would help. It all crumbled within a year or two and suddenly Walmart was losing everything, in part because of their bad faith defenses.

So I think it's not crazy to let this one go first. Others will come more easily, they'll watch the other proceedings for anything they can use (because it'll be public record) and the descent will accelerate.
posted by fatbird at 4:48 PM on March 30, 2023 [45 favorites]

I just enjoyed a box of KD for dinner to celebrate the orange.
posted by whatevernot at 4:50 PM on March 30, 2023 [12 favorites]

(just opened a 2015 bottle of Sassicaia I'd been holding onto)
posted by Ahmad Khani


WTF. Highroller! a) baby-killer b) where do you live? I WANTZ THE PRECIOUS. GIVE ME SOME

For those of you that don't know....
posted by lalochezia at 4:52 PM on March 30, 2023 [4 favorites]

"a box of KD for dinner"

Ketchup Denialism?
Komplete Devestation?
Kirby's Diner? (it's videogame themed, but it's all about eating)
posted by hippybear at 4:54 PM on March 30, 2023 [1 favorite]

Kentucky Driedchicken?
posted by hippybear at 4:55 PM on March 30, 2023 [5 favorites]

My oh my. The first I knew of this was because my daughter's ex-boyfriend sent me a very happy text. We are still friends.
posted by kingless at 4:55 PM on March 30, 2023 [1 favorite]

YOUR ALL DRINKING AND IM SMOKING ...

I WAS GONNA ANYWAY BUT NOW WE HAVE A THEME
posted by CPAnarchist at 4:56 PM on March 30, 2023 [7 favorites]

Christ, what an asshole.
posted by panhopticon at 4:56 PM on March 30, 2023 [6 favorites]

Same for Adams
Perhaps the least idicated president. And that traitor got to see his old former boss say nice things to him.

"I have sometimes been ready to think that the passion for Liberty cannot be Eaquelly Strong in the Breasts of those who have been accustomed to deprive their fellow Creatures of theirs. Of this I am certain that it is not founded upon that generous and christian principal of doing to others as we would that others should do unto us."

-Abigail Adams.
posted by clavdivs at 4:57 PM on March 30, 2023 [4 favorites]

The final scene of Sunset Blvd. seems appropriate about now. Supposedly Trump's favorite movie?

The Final Campaign Inside Donald Trump’s sad, lonely, thirsty, broken, basically pretend run for reelection. (Which isn’t to say he can’t win.)

He had wanted to be in the movie business. It’s important to never forget this about him. He watches Sunset Boulevard, “one of the greatest of all time,” again and again and again. A silent-picture star sidelined by the talkies, driven to madness, in denial over her faded celebrity. When he was a businessman, he showed it to guests aboard his 727. When he was president, he held screenings of it for White House staff at Camp David.

...he once showed it to Tim O’Brien, the biographer, who wrote that when Norma Desmond cried, “Those idiot producers. Those imbeciles! Haven’t they got any eyes? Have they forgotten what a star looks like? I’ll show them. I’ll be up there again, so help me!,” Trump leaned over O’Brien’s shoulder and whispered, “Is this an incredible scene or what? Just incredible.”

A washed-up star locked away in a mansion from the 1920s, afraid of the world outside, afraid it will remind him that time has passed …

posted by kirkaracha at 4:59 PM on March 30, 2023 [24 favorites]

How to get him there?

Easy. Grab him by the PUSA.
posted by allium cepa at 4:59 PM on March 30, 2023 [10 favorites]

People in general were a lot less good people in the past. I mean, they weren't fundamentally different from us, but like death sports have been popular on and off in various ways across history. Now I guess we have movies and video games but we still do have pretty brutal sports events in which humans beat the shit out of each other for prizes.

It's easy to look back and be all "wow, they were horrible people" but for the most part they wouldn't have gotten to their historical station if they had been, for their time, horrible people. I'm glad we continue to spiral toward less bloodshed and more justice and equality.
posted by hippybear at 5:01 PM on March 30, 2023 [11 favorites]

Yes, what's everyone drinking?

Staring at a picture of a bottle of Pappy Van Winkle while drinking some Bulleit .
posted by kirkaracha at 5:05 PM on March 30, 2023 [29 favorites]

A washed-up star locked away in a mansion from the 1920s, afraid of the world outside, afraid it will remind him that time has passed …

I am bigly. It’s the pictures that got small.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 5:09 PM on March 30, 2023 [15 favorites]

I'm also getting a medium rare filet mignon for dinner.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:13 PM on March 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

I'm not a drinker or a smoker, but I splurged on a matcha cream puff for dinner.

Also got mango yogurt and Japanese orange bread rolls for breakfast tomorrow. (I live by a Japanese grocery store.)
posted by spinifex23 at 5:15 PM on March 30, 2023 [7 favorites]

WTF. Highroller! a) baby-killer b) where do you live? I WANTZ THE PRECIOUS. GIVE ME SOME
Gotta buy it year-of, then store/cellar… outrageously expensive otherwise!
posted by Ahmad Khani at 5:18 PM on March 30, 2023

Watching MSNBC; DeSantis made some dumbass statement about how he’s not going to assist with the arrest, blah blah. What an asshole.
posted by Melismata at 5:20 PM on March 30, 2023 [6 favorites]

buy low, drink high
posted by Ahmad Khani at 5:23 PM on March 30, 2023 [19 favorites]

Yes, what's everyone drinking?

A California sparkling wine in these champagne flutes.

And lots of chocolate.
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 5:24 PM on March 30, 2023 [2 favorites]

Part of the reason DeSantis will never beat Trump in a primary is because he's stuck in a place where he can't actually attack the guy, so his messaging is all "While I believe Donald Trump was the greatest American President in the history of our republic, and is possibly the greatest human being to ever walk the Earth, you should vote for me instead because [weak sauce mumbling]."
posted by The Card Cheat at 5:24 PM on March 30, 2023 [30 favorites]

This is the happiest day of my life.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:25 PM on March 30, 2023 [1 favorite]

First president to lose the popular vote twice.
First president to be impeached twice.
First president to be indicted after losing office.

First president to lose the popular vote once twice.
First president to be impeached once twice.
First president to be indicted once _____ after losing office.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:30 PM on March 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

Depending on the leanings of those before whom you are auditioning, you might win the part just by bringing in a bottle of sparkling and some glasses to raise a toast.

Oh, it'd be SUPER APPROPRIATE for this show. Even better: the audition is AT A BAR. But...I probably shouldn't be That Person on the first night and all that.

(disclaimer: Tony n' Tina's Wedding, a show I have previously done and one night we definitely smuggled in booze...we just don't mention that to the director who said not to.)
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:31 PM on March 30, 2023 [2 favorites]

buy low, drink high

Cheapest i can find a 750ml bottle of 2020 is $250
posted by lalochezia at 5:33 PM on March 30, 2023

Yay. He’s a martyr now.

He's been a self-described martyr for the better part of the past 8 years. If anything, his crying "hoax" all this time has blunted the impact of what would otherwise be an unfathomably momentous event. As things stand, I'd wager most people think this isn't going to amount to much, just another bunker in his back nine that he'll cheat his way out of as usual.
posted by xigxag at 5:33 PM on March 30, 2023 [4 favorites]

where he can't actually attack

carry small amounts of cash and a big sharp stake.

Money, money, money
posted by clavdivs at 5:34 PM on March 30, 2023 [5 favorites]

Money
posted by clavdivs at 5:34 PM on March 30, 2023 [10 favorites]

just thinkin' about art for no reason

This line from mrjohnmuller basically got me through 4 years of Trump, so I can't say I disagree with you.

Those megathreads were really something, and they probably still don't load properly on mobile, so the line is "Hey everyone I just remembered that even though each day is worse than the one preceding it, each day ALSO brings us one day closer to the one where 45 dies on the toilet."
posted by Mayor West at 5:38 PM on March 30, 2023 [27 favorites]

Hilariously I found out by this story being the first post on the home page, I haven't looked at a news site all day.

I hadn't seen or heard any news all day either. I went looking when a friend's Facebook post talked about celebrating oceanside with drinks, without mentioning what he was celebrating. "Something happened!" I said to myself. Sure enough.

It's very exciting.
posted by Well I never at 5:40 PM on March 30, 2023 [2 favorites]

the golden escalator at Trump Tower

code for
PEE PEE TAPE
posted by chococat at 5:45 PM on March 30, 2023 [24 favorites]

The Final Campaign...

Embarrassingly enough, I had seen but not read that article before -- those of you who have not yet read it should go do so now. Holy shit, NYMag knocks it out of the park.
posted by aramaic at 5:45 PM on March 30, 2023

Soju time.

If he wins despite being convicted? Then he can be President from his cell. Maybe we will finally get some prison reforms/abolition.
posted by corb at 5:50 PM on March 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

Just cracked a Cigar City Jai Alai, which I normally only pick up when I'm in Florida for an event with my band, but a Florida beer seems apropos in light of the current goings-on at Mar a Lago.
posted by emelenjr at 5:55 PM on March 30, 2023 [5 favorites]

I just want to tell you all, good luck. We're all counting on you.
posted by credulous at 6:17 PM on March 30, 2023 [46 favorites]

To the tune of a Presidents of the USA hit:

♫ He's Trump
He's Trump
He's Trump
He's turbo-fucked ♫
posted by porn in the woods at 6:17 PM on March 30, 2023 [9 favorites]

Yes, good luck. We're all counting on you.
posted by Ahmad Khani at 6:20 PM on March 30, 2023 [6 favorites]

Part of the reason DeSantis will never beat Trump in a primary is because he's stuck in a place where he can't actually attack the guy, so his messaging is all "While I believe Donald Trump was the greatest American President in the history of our republic, and is possibly the greatest human being to ever walk the Earth, you should vote for me instead because [weak sauce mumbling]."

Now the easy line is “If elected, I will pardon.”
posted by leotrotsky at 6:22 PM on March 30, 2023 [5 favorites]

I've been in a sort of chill no-media mode all evening and I'm only hearing this now at 9:22 pm. I pulled up Mefi and I literally GASPED.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:22 PM on March 30, 2023 [7 favorites]

We didn’t think to pick up ginger beer at the store, so Dark ‘n’ Stormy cocktails will have to wait for another night, but if I know Mr. Armeowda, he’s planning to toast the day’s events with either a Spanish or French red.

The Seattle Kraken play Anaheim tonight. I’m hoping I’ll be able to call 3/30/2023 “Donald/Duck Defeat Day.”
posted by armeowda at 6:23 PM on March 30, 2023 [9 favorites]

I need a conviction, and imprisonment, to truly celebrate, but this is A Good Thing

Also can't wait for scholarly essays on the life and impact of Stormy Daniels.
posted by emjaybee at 6:24 PM on March 30, 2023 [15 favorites]

Who was it that advocated for police to hurt people in their care? Should we listen to him?
posted by Jacen at 6:26 PM on March 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

Nah, we’re better than that.
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:27 PM on March 30, 2023 [4 favorites]

Legitimate question I've seen posed elsewhere: If Trump were ever to actually be found guilty of any crime and (ha) imprisoned, would members of the Secret Service have to live in that prison as well?
posted by tzikeh at 6:28 PM on March 30, 2023 [8 favorites]

My report from red Florida tonight is that I saw only one flag, "Trump / Desantis 2024" on a boat. Desantis is a clown, but I don't know if even he can eat that much meatloaf.
posted by credulous at 6:29 PM on March 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

I'm really looking forward to the next Randy Rainbow song.
posted by Avelwood at 6:34 PM on March 30, 2023 [17 favorites]

Now the easy line is “If elected, I will pardon.”

That would be a bold campaign strategy for the 2026 New York Gubernatorial Election, but it’s not like Republicans are ever going to win in Albany using more traditional strategies.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 6:35 PM on March 30, 2023 [7 favorites]

Someone on my Facebook feed reacted by posting this.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:36 PM on March 30, 2023 [15 favorites]

I posted this reply on social media when the (potential) indictment was announced:

I'm not from NYC, but I've been fascinated by New York culture and politics for decades. Let's just say that Trump's criminality dates back DECADES. He was known as a crook and a grifter all the way back to his youth. He's managed to skate on all manner of potential criminal charges, though his companies haven't fared so well.
So now there's all this hand-wringing over endicting a former President. Jeez, it's sort of miraculous that he's doged justice until now (knock wood that this will amount to more than a nothingburger).

Yeah, I'm feeling a bit jaded, but maybe also just a bit optimistic?

/eponynoteven
posted by Surely This at 6:36 PM on March 30, 2023 [13 favorites]

I would hope other indictments (or whatever you folks call them over there) do come because I doubt very much that Trump (but even more so any legal team he can cobble together) can multitask very well. The more legal processes coming to a head there are, the less well he can deal with any of them.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 6:39 PM on March 30, 2023 [14 favorites]

I'm not quite sure what it'll mean to some of you, but the Australian media (daytime here) isn't sure whether today's lead story is Paltrow or Trump.
posted by jjderooy at 6:41 PM on March 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

I would hope other indictments (or whatever you folks call them over there) do come

*smiling broadly*

Tish James' case goes to court in October. And she's a different jurisdiction so she can go right on ahead.

And it's TISH JAMES so that's gonna be DELICIOUS.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:42 PM on March 30, 2023 [15 favorites]

If I knew her address I'd send Stormy Daniels a case of champagne!
posted by mareli at 6:42 PM on March 30, 2023 [1 favorite]

Desantis is a clown, but I don't know if even he can eat that much meatloaf.

@GovRonDeSantis, 3:55 PM · Mar 30, 2023

Florida will not assist in an extradition request given the questionable circumstances at issue with this Soros-backed Manhattan prosecutor and his political agenda.

Christ, what an asshole. I mean "coward."
posted by kirkaracha at 6:43 PM on March 30, 2023 [16 favorites]

but the Australian media (daytime here) isn't sure whether today's lead story is Paltrow or Trump.

eyes on the ball, folks. You've got a Grand Prix this weekend.
posted by philip-random at 6:45 PM on March 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

Watching MSNBC; DeSantis made some dumbass statement about how he’s not going to assist with the arrest, blah blah. What an asshole.
Dang, clearly we were both watching MSNBC. I've never seen a bigger smile on Rachel Maddow's face.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:47 PM on March 30, 2023 [1 favorite]

"Soros-backed"

JFC, that's what they've got? Really?

...shiiiiit, any random junkie could spin a better line than that (ex-junkies represent).
posted by aramaic at 6:49 PM on March 30, 2023 [10 favorites]

When I got home my roommate and his maybe-if-it-works-out possible new girlfriend were on their way out to the opera, and so I figured he hadn't heard the news about this either. I just texted him the news.

He just replied to say that when they got off the subway on their way to the Met they passed a Trump property - and he spit on it.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:55 PM on March 30, 2023 [13 favorites]

I found out when my friend posted "do you think they'll try him as an adult?" which was extra funny because my Facebook memories for today included this exchange:

Asked by CNN about the dispute, Mr Trump said: "He started it."
CNN presenter Anderson Cooper said: "But, sir, with all due respect, that's the argument of a five-year-old."
"No, it's not," said Mr Trump.

~~~

but the Australian media (daytime here) isn't sure whether today's lead story is Paltrow or Trump.

eyes on the ball, folks. You've got a Grand Prix this weekend.

also we could really use that Taskmaster season finale just to really hammer home that this isn't the darkest timeline, thanks
posted by taquito sunrise at 6:59 PM on March 30, 2023 [13 favorites]

I read or hear "Soros-backed" and I immediately think the person speaking is an anti-Semite and is probably an enemy of mine and the ideals I place in this country.

It's not a great line, but it's packed with meaning.
posted by hippybear at 7:00 PM on March 30, 2023 [72 favorites]

...and he spit on it.

Isn't someone's saliva on Trump's property how we got here?
posted by Calvin and the Duplicators at 7:00 PM on March 30, 2023 [11 favorites]

→ The more legal processes coming to a head there are, the less well he can deal with any of them.

Also, he's famously bad at paying his lawyers. I wonder if defence lawyers ever demand cash up front?
posted by scruss at 7:00 PM on March 30, 2023 [8 favorites]

/eponynoteven
posted by Surely This

Owned by your own nom d'MeFi
posted by y2karl at 7:01 PM on March 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

Also, he's famously bad at paying his lawyers.

And he's even more famously excellent at getting his lawyers to commit crimes that are then discovered leading to sanctions or disbarment.
posted by hippybear at 7:03 PM on March 30, 2023 [8 favorites]

Ok, I take it back. Desantis can eat infinite quantities of meatloaf while he quietly roots for atherosclerosis. Even Pence would come back and wear one half of an "I'm With Stupid" T-shirt that says "Yeah, I Deserved It."
posted by credulous at 7:04 PM on March 30, 2023 [1 favorite]

List of crimes committed by US Presidents

LeRoienJaune - how many of those crimes would have been crimes in the USA at the time? Or maybe a better version of that question is - how many presidents could have been indicted for a crime by their contemporaries in their lifetimes? For ex, was Jefferson's rape of Hemings actually breaking any contemporary laws?
posted by Pickman's Next Top Model at 7:07 PM on March 30, 2023 [4 favorites]

Arrest the president
posted by eustatic at 7:07 PM on March 30, 2023 [2 favorites]

Another person I know has shared that he once sat on a NY Grand Jury - and they do NOT fuck around, he said.

So rather than saying that Alvin Bragg brought charges, it's more accurate to say that Alvin Bragg presented such a compelling argument that he was able to convince 23 total strangers that "yep, you need to go bring charges."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:07 PM on March 30, 2023 [31 favorites]

I've just arrived home from a party. My phone broke down, so when I tried to check the news while riding home on the Metro, I got a blur. So this is very late and I'm a bit drunk, but I still poured me a small glass of Lillet and toasted for the succes of this trial and all the other trials.

Congratulations with this first tiny step, America. It is worth celebrating, even though it isn't the end yet.
posted by mumimor at 7:08 PM on March 30, 2023 [17 favorites]

LOL - and now I'm watching Rachel Maddow and Lawrence O'Donnell talk about, and they're talking about what a boon this is going to be for high school AP history students in 2084, and how instead of talking about whatever the hell the Teapot Dome was about, they're going to be all "hehehehehe, we get to talk about a porn star in history class, sweeeeeeeeet".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:10 PM on March 30, 2023 [16 favorites]

Take that, Deep Throat.
posted by nickmark at 7:13 PM on March 30, 2023 [14 favorites]

The smart money seems to be on a negotiated surrender with minimal drama, but given the theatrics we were treated to when he was merely banned from Twitter, I have to wonder exactly how this is going to go.
posted by Not A Thing at 7:17 PM on March 30, 2023 [1 favorite]

I'm drinking an Old Fashioned and ate some leftover mediterranean food.

The one advantage of this one going first is it's likely to have the least impact. The others will be worse for him, and will complicated/distract him. And although he can certainly run for office from jail, even if he wins, he cannot pardon himself from state convictions. So that's a thing.
posted by suelac at 7:19 PM on March 30, 2023 [4 favorites]

I have work tomorrow, but screw it, I may nibble on an edible gummy.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:23 PM on March 30, 2023 [5 favorites]

How many hours into an erection do I need to consult a physician?
posted by kirkaracha at 7:24 PM on March 30, 2023 [62 favorites]

I hope this is the pebble that starts the landslide. Woodford Reserve, for the record.
posted by mollweide at 7:26 PM on March 30, 2023 [5 favorites]

How many hours into an erection do I need to consult a physician?

If it lasts more than four trials.
posted by fatbird at 7:31 PM on March 30, 2023 [39 favorites]

My predictions (I hope I'm wrong):
1) He is convicted on most counts; he will appeal until he is either pardoned or dies and his convictions are expunged.
2) Stochastic 'lone wolf' terror attacks and public meeting confrontations increase in frequency and violence, and sympathizers within FBI/LEOrgs will sabotage investigations.
3) Any sentence he gets will be likely no more than home confinement and/or probation. I cannot accept that the Secret Service would not emphatically intercede in the sentencing; they could never permit him to be anywhere they couldn't completely control the situation. And no current/future POTUS would want to send another POTUS to prison lest it happen to him/her down the road (and you know the GQP will try.)
4) If he's not already free/unencumbered at the time, the next GOP GONY will pardon him just after being sworn in and as soon as nobody's looking.
5) If he is sentenced/not pardoned and wins '24 POTUS, the bipartisan pressure to at least commute his sentence before Jan 20, 2025 will be insurmountable -- the mantra being 'the people have spoken'. He will not serve a moment of his term from prison or even under sentence.
posted by zaixfeep at 7:32 PM on March 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

Florida will not assist in an extradition request given the questionable circumstances at issue with this Soros-backed Manhattan prosecutor and his political agenda.

DeSantis’ inability to stop the extradition will make him look even weaker.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:34 PM on March 30, 2023 [14 favorites]

Getting Ethiopian food delivered & may break out the Japanese whiskey. I wish I had more hope that something would come of all this, but who doesn't need a celebration?
posted by Space Kitty at 7:35 PM on March 30, 2023 [8 favorites]

I wonder how his KGB handler feels about this, army bogged down in Ukraine, one of your best assets indicted, if I didn't know any better I would think there is George Smiley type sitting across a table from a Karla type somewhere in the world.

Drinking a dark and stormy.
posted by oldnumberseven at 7:35 PM on March 30, 2023 [15 favorites]

Celebrating with a Fish Delight
posted by chrchr at 7:38 PM on March 30, 2023 [5 favorites]

Box red wine and Mexican casserole and a new T. Kingfisher book and this - I am more content than I have been for a while. I just want him taken to NY on a commercial flight handcuffed to a U.S. marshal, imagine the horror for him. Or a prison transport van, that would be good too.
posted by mygothlaundry at 7:41 PM on March 30, 2023 [4 favorites]

In case anyone needs a song to celebrate to.
posted by Toddles at 7:42 PM on March 30, 2023 [4 favorites]

Stochastic 'lone wolf' terror attacks and public meeting confrontations increase in frequency and violence

Just in time for Desantis to sign permitless concealed carry into law!
posted by credulous at 7:44 PM on March 30, 2023 [5 favorites]

I wonder if defence lawyers ever demand cash up front?
Maybe he could find one that would offer 'no win, no pay'.
posted by dg at 7:46 PM on March 30, 2023

34 counts?

In a row?

Hey, try not to falsify any records on your way through the parking lot
posted by delfin at 7:46 PM on March 30, 2023 [47 favorites]

so amazing that trump has managed to be the most entertaining news story without fail since 2015. this is the funniest thing that could have happened. imagine how insanely he's losing his shit at this very moment in mar a lago. just fuming uncontrollably. lol, lmfao
posted by dis_integration at 7:52 PM on March 30, 2023 [4 favorites]

Laphroaig
posted by MtDewd at 8:02 PM on March 30, 2023 [15 favorites]

Lager, lager, lager, lager
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:09 PM on March 30, 2023 [12 favorites]

I wish they'd waited to April the 1st and that the association stuck forever.
posted by Richard Upton Pickman at 8:09 PM on March 30, 2023 [8 favorites]

An Oyster City IPA from Apalachicola, a town which used to supply all of our oysters in the region, but is closed to harvesting until at least 2025 because we can't have nice things.
posted by credulous at 8:09 PM on March 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

Lager, lager, lager, lager

Mushroom mushroom
posted by tzikeh at 8:12 PM on March 30, 2023 [39 favorites]

I hope to think that the New York County DA's office going first means that the other prosecutors considering indictment on more serious charges have less trepidation, as they no longer will be first.
posted by Hollywood Upstairs Medical College at 8:14 PM on March 30, 2023 [4 favorites]

Lager, lager, lager, lager

MAGA MAGA white thing
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:19 PM on March 30, 2023 [30 favorites]

Hendricks Orbium gin and a lovely indica gummy smuggled from my home state of Michigan. I'm going to sleep like an unindicted baby tonight!
posted by Floydd at 8:20 PM on March 30, 2023 [8 favorites]

And yet, like his impeachment, I fear a conviction will not be forthcoming.
posted by Snowflake at 8:22 PM on March 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

I would love to see Orange Hamburglar in a jumpsuit as much as the next guy -- and I know these two things are totally unrelated -- but I'd gladly accept DeSantis's Florida defying an eventual SCOTUS ruling in favor of extraditing Trump if it means Hochul's New York gets to defy an eventual SCOTUS ruling in favor of unrestricted gun licensing.
posted by xigxag at 8:23 PM on March 30, 2023 [1 favorite]

I'm really interested in the fake-out or whatever's been going on behind the scenes. There was one last witness whose testimony the grand jury listened to for 30 minutes and then voted to indict. I wonder who that was. Allen Weisselberg?

It's funny that Trump misspelled indicted because you'd think he'd be using that word a lot.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 8:25 PM on March 30, 2023 [5 favorites]

DeSantis’ inability to stop the extradition will make him look even weaker.

It's easy to imagine [Trump] defying the legal process and remaining home at Mar-a-Lago in Florida.

"It would just be, in my opinion, like the epitome of stupid," [former Manhattan assistant district attorney] Bachner said. "But I do agree that Trump has at times certainly exhibited conduct that many of us would characterize as stupid."

That is pretty high-quality shade.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:28 PM on March 30, 2023 [40 favorites]

A&W root beer
posted by y2karl at 9:04 PM on March 30, 2023 [8 favorites]

The Business Insider story linked above says Trump is a low flight risk and I'm not sure that's true. Entirely possible he says fuck it all and flees to Russia or something rather than risk incarceration however unlikely.

I'm curious about whether this will pry open more things, once facts and evidence start getting introduced during court proceedings, that other investigations can more easily include.

A good chance. Trump's lawyers are often incompetent and look how that worked out for the info wars jackass.

At least, for the span of days that it takes him to pardon himself.

Pardons don't annul the conviction. It would still be accurate to say he was convicted.
posted by Mitheral at 9:07 PM on March 30, 2023 [1 favorite]

“That is pretty high-quality shade.”

Yeah, on Twitter people were speculating about Secret Service protection if Trump's in prison and this one guy was like why wouldn't prison protection be sufficient? and I was like, well, he knows a bunch of national security stuff that's valuable to lots of powerful people and he was like, what stuff? and I was like, well, I'm going to disengage from this interaction by making a funny joke about how I'm assuming he remembers anything from the security briefings he didn't read in the first place, so I guess you got me there.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:07 PM on March 30, 2023 [8 favorites]

> And yet, like his impeachment, I fear a conviction will not be forthcoming.

How do you even field a jury for this case? The jury pool is inevitably poisoned. Really I was hoping they wouldn't indict because if he gets a not guilty verdict, i don't see how that isn't a huge political win for him.
posted by dis_integration at 9:09 PM on March 30, 2023 [4 favorites]

Okay now, I'm home and drinking the already open container of box wine! I may dip some Peeps into it! My audition experience was fucking magnificent! It's like going home again...to an obnoxious New York family (in California). I slipped into a NYC accent again like I'd never stopped. It was glorious.

Metafilter: each day ALSO brings us one day closer to the one where 45 dies on the toilet.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:12 PM on March 30, 2023 [31 favorites]

Yes, what's everyone drinking?

Cask aged conservative tears!
posted by loquacious at 9:13 PM on March 30, 2023 [27 favorites]

There was one last witness whose testimony the grand jury listened to for 30 minutes and then voted to indict. I wonder who that was.

I have served on a grand jury! AMA!

I mean, the process isn’t so much that the DA presents evidence until the jury is convinced that the defendant should be charged. It’s more like the DA presents their case by bringing in witnesses and interviewing them under oath and them, when they have presented all of their evidence, they explain the charges they think the defendant should be charged with and the legal theory and then the jury votes and deliberates in private.

The whole thing is supposed to be secret. We should not have even known that Mr. Trump was being considered by a grand jury because they could have voted that the state could not charge him. It’s a system to provide a check on the DA so they can’t just go around charging clearly innocent people and dragging them into court. You at least have to convince a panel of rubes who failed to get out of jury duty.
posted by chrchr at 9:15 PM on March 30, 2023 [14 favorites]

I am drinking a Double White Triple Berry from Marble Brewery In New Mexico. NM has become reliably blue, I I hope the double/triple represents the number of additional indictments/convinctions. Also it is a little bitter (from the last 7 years) and sweet ( for todays news)
posted by CostcoCultist at 9:17 PM on March 30, 2023 [4 favorites]

Any sentence he gets will be likely no more than home confinement and/or probation.

Agreed, house arrest in Mar-a-lego. I'm okay with that as long as he just STFU. That will be part of the punishment, right? No internet access, no phone calls to Tucker?

entirely possible he says fuck it all and flees to Russia or something

To what degree would/could the Secret Service protect him, in Russia? Would they even allow such an emigration, to non-US soil?
posted by Rash at 9:21 PM on March 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

The whole thing is supposed to be secret .

The witnesses have no obligations of secrecy. They can tell anyone and everyone what questions they were asked.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 9:23 PM on March 30, 2023 [4 favorites]

Really, when you add international crimes to the standards, most of our Presidents are criminals.

Most leaders of most countries going back to the dawn of time could be classified as such, depending on what legal standards you hold them to.

American exceptionalism, whether positive or negative, is usually mistaken.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 9:32 PM on March 30, 2023 [4 favorites]

Lager, lager, lager, lager

MAGA MAGA white thing

I laughed out loud. Thank you both!
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 9:45 PM on March 30, 2023 [5 favorites]

I laughed out loud. Thank you both!

You're welcome, but I now regret not writing it out this way:

MAGA MAG-indicting
MAGA MAG-indicting
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 9:55 PM on March 30, 2023 [2 favorites]

If the timing had been different Clinton might have won the 2016 election. I imagine her now either really angry at her missed opportunity or so thankful that she's avoided the last 7 years of politics.
posted by bendy at 9:56 PM on March 30, 2023 [2 favorites]

Me, but kinda not as athletic.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 9:58 PM on March 30, 2023 [2 favorites]

I doubt Trump will be able to control his impulses during trial. Outbursts from him could presumably lead to him being held in contempt, which could result in him spending a night in jail, yeah?
posted by otsebyatina at 10:03 PM on March 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

God damn that was a good steak.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:04 PM on March 30, 2023 [7 favorites]

To what degree would/could the Secret Service protect him, in Russia? Would they even allow such an emigration, to non-US soil?

He's probably not escaping to Russia, a country that suicides its liabilities out of multi-story building windows. On the other hand, it might be tough for Trump to pay his debts to the Bratva from a prison cell - could get shivved one day on the way to lunch. He's in a tough spot, for sure.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:17 PM on March 30, 2023 [4 favorites]

You know what they call an asset when they are no longer useful? A loose end.

I don't know anything about tradecraft, but it sounded pretty badass in my head.
posted by chromecow at 11:01 PM on March 30, 2023 [15 favorites]

Piper Sonoma brut rosé & King Arthur black cocoa brownies
posted by obloquy at 11:25 PM on March 30, 2023 [8 favorites]

This calls for.... a cappuccino!
posted by zaelic at 11:28 PM on March 30, 2023 [5 favorites]

> I kind of love how the only people who think there's going to be riots in the streets are the NYPD

Sounds like a way to justify a whole lot of overtime for standing around to me. Lock down the blue thug vote early.
posted by ASCII Costanza head at 11:30 PM on March 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

Take the cannoli.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:34 PM on March 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

I know this won't be enough to finish him. I know he may even manage to turn it to his advantage. I know all that. Just for a moment, though, I'm going to simply enjoy it for its own sake.
posted by Paul Slade at 11:51 PM on March 30, 2023 [16 favorites]

Yusef Salaam, who was one of the Central Park Five, of course, has issued a one-word statement: "Karma".
posted by Paul Slade at 12:05 AM on March 31, 2023 [24 favorites]

No matter how much his lawyers will advise him to invoke his right to silence, his lack of impulse control and his inability to keep his trap shut might well result in him incriminating himself even further.
posted by essexjan at 12:06 AM on March 31, 2023 [12 favorites]

Riots? We're about to find out what happens when America runs out of champagne.
posted by adept256 at 12:06 AM on March 31, 2023 [24 favorites]

I have contributed many nasty portraits of many people here with Trump being the one I did the most of by far.
I do believe it may be time for one final portrait.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 12:20 AM on March 31, 2023 [23 favorites]

Yes please. I loved those portraits of yours back in the politics megathread era.
posted by otsebyatina at 12:31 AM on March 31, 2023 [2 favorites]

Coopers Sparkling Ale. From a stubby.
posted by flabdablet at 12:57 AM on March 31, 2023 [2 favorites]

As a fellow survivor, I was delighted to wake up to this news. Hugs and confetti to all who want 'em.
posted by Bella Donna at 2:20 AM on March 31, 2023 [2 favorites]

He's indicted and it feels so good
He's indicted, not misunderstood
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:11 AM on March 31, 2023 [9 favorites]

zaixfeep: My predictions (I hope I'm wrong)

That's a lot of writing for one cake. You're going to need either very neat, small lettering skills or a multitude of cakes. Not a very hard choice...
posted by Too-Ticky at 3:19 AM on March 31, 2023 [2 favorites]

What’s everyone drinking?

Would a cask of amontillado be too much?
posted by Mchelly at 4:30 AM on March 31, 2023 [42 favorites]

I ended up eschewing the edible after all. I'll save the partying until there's a guilty verdict.

(Although I already have the DOONESBURY comic panel of Mark Slackmeyer hollering "GUILTY, GUILTY, GUILTY!" locked and loaded for posting.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:35 AM on March 31, 2023 [17 favorites]

I’m reading this in the morning with an energy bar and a nice strong cup of covfefe.
posted by caviar2d2 at 4:41 AM on March 31, 2023 [11 favorites]

Also to the tune of the Addams Family:

The pundits love to quote ‘im,
The Democrats outvote ‘im,
His face looks like a scrotum,
Donald fuckin’ Trump!
posted by caviar2d2 at 4:44 AM on March 31, 2023 [17 favorites]

A&W root beer

Got that frosty mug(shot) taste.
posted by terrapin at 4:48 AM on March 31, 2023 [1 favorite]

Now do SCOTUS next.

I don't think anything will come of this but I'll certainly enjoy the circus. Also, its great when shit-heads like Trump and his cabal of demons are inconvenienced and shamed. That's the only solace I can take from all of this.
posted by Fizz at 4:56 AM on March 31, 2023 [5 favorites]

He's so indicted
And he just can't fight it
He's about to lose control
And I think I like it.
posted by essexjan at 5:35 AM on March 31, 2023 [42 favorites]

'The GOP response to Trump is one hell of an indictment' (Dana Milbank, WaPo)
posted by box at 5:41 AM on March 31, 2023 [4 favorites]

And even now, the press insists on trying to normalize him. WaPo: “In a sign of the chaotic scramble, Trump misspelled ‘indicted’ in a post on his social media network Truth Social, …” What chaotic scramble? This is how he always is.
posted by Melismata at 5:49 AM on March 31, 2023 [11 favorites]

At our ill-fated 2016 Election Night Party, Mrs. HeroZero and I served two specialty drinks that it might be time to revive:
- The Bad Ombre: just a rebranded tequila sunrise
- The Mazel Tov Cocktail: a charoset-inspired drink made from red wine, Calvados apple brandy, and walnut bitters
posted by HeroZero at 6:06 AM on March 31, 2023 [5 favorites]

I didn't think this day would ever come.


A smaller joy but it's wonderful to log in and see 250 comments on a post in Metafilter. Almost like the glory days of the metathreads.
posted by octothorpe at 6:10 AM on March 31, 2023 [29 favorites]

My roommate and I get the New York Times delivered free (a friend of his in Korea wanted the digital subscription but couldn't get it without the print version somehow, so he has the print version sent to us). Usually we just leave it in our lobby for whoever wants it; I occasionally get the weekend editions but that's it.

I made a point of fetching this morning's edition, grabbing it up as I walked out the door to walk to work. Every time I've looked at the front page headline since then, I've always started laughing.

....And I may make a celebratory cake this weekend. Orange cake. With nuts.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:17 AM on March 31, 2023 [27 favorites]

It's been interesting reading people discuss the Trump indictment, people who hate the guy like poison, remarking that they're not certain if this was the best political play, whether it was the most important case to "try first", whether this won't just make him more popular with his already-rabid fan base, whether we're not risking him becoming even *more* popular if he's tried on charges and is found not-guilty.

To all of that: nonsense. We prosecute crimes in this country because we are governed by a system of laws. The system is functioning as, theoretically, one would expect in a country where nobody is above the law. Instead of fretting about whether this is good optics, start making the Republicans answer to whether they support that concept or not: is a former President above the law, yes or no?

And if Trump isn't guilty, he should walk into the courtroom fully convinced of his ability to be tried and set free. Because it's not in any way unusual for the country to conduct trials of this nature, and he's not in any way an exception to the process.
posted by Ipsifendus at 6:18 AM on March 31, 2023 [68 favorites]

One small step for a grand jury, one giant leap for democracy.
posted by tommasz at 6:27 AM on March 31, 2023 [11 favorites]

I hope they convict him.

Also indicted today was the US Department of Justice which has still refused to do FUCKING ANYTHING AT ALL for almost three goddamn years now, and it took some state level indictment to get anything happening at all.

Here's hoping for a quick trial and a guilty verdict that results in jail time.
posted by sotonohito at 6:35 AM on March 31, 2023 [4 favorites]

Lindsay Graham was on Sean Hannity's show last night (because of course he was), and when he was sharing his thoughts on the indictment, someone in the live studio audience heckled him.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:37 AM on March 31, 2023 [20 favorites]

In retrospect, it's a little surprising that he paid hush money for all this sex instead of bragging about it.

Well, in the very least it's got something to do with his marriage to Melania.

If memory serves me correctly, I've read speculation that Hair Furor's prenup with Melania has some specific things to say about adultery.

I doubt he cared about the opinions of the evangelical crowd at all, and in that one thing he was proved right. But then, we've known they were a pack of hypocrites since at least 1980, when they abandoned Jimmy Carter, an actual evangelical christian, to vote for Ronald Reagan.

Isn't someone's saliva on Trump's property how we got here?

I think technically Obama ribbing him a the White House Correspondent's Dinner is how we got here.

Speaking of hypocrites, by the way, DeSantis can mouth off how he pleases, but the US Constitution specifically says states can't deny extradition to other states. Of course, we've long known the only part of the Constitution they care about is the one they think says "law protects but does not bind them and binds but does not protect the Out Group."
posted by Gelatin at 6:43 AM on March 31, 2023 [20 favorites]

Also indicted today was the US Department of Justice which has still refused to do FUCKING ANYTHING AT ALL for almost three goddamn years now, and it took some state level indictment to get anything happening at all.

Jack Smith has been doing things.
posted by Pendragon at 6:50 AM on March 31, 2023 [3 favorites]

To what degree would/could the Secret Service protect him, in Russia? Would they even allow such an emigration, to non-US soil?

No degree. And how would they stop him? If Trump boards a helicopter in Mar-a-lago nominally to New York and instead conspires with the pilot to go to Cuba or something what are they going to do?

Doesn't have to be Russia of course. Merely any country unable or unwilling to extradite.
posted by Mitheral at 6:58 AM on March 31, 2023

How about Dubai? Or would that cause even bigger problems?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:00 AM on March 31, 2023 [1 favorite]

The crimer is no flight risk. Leaving the country would mean admitting he lost. That is not something he is capable of.
posted by Press Butt.on to Check at 7:17 AM on March 31, 2023 [7 favorites]

Why are people even speculating about him fleeing the country? He's running for President, and he thinks this will help him with that. He probably doesn't even think he's in any serious trouble.
posted by Liquidwolf at 7:18 AM on March 31, 2023 [4 favorites]

He's running for President, and he thinks this will help him with that.

If he did, then he wouldn't be angry about it. He's not a master chess player hoping to bait Alvin Bragg into indicting him because he can fundraise off it. He's a scared animal who suddenly sees an open cage door right in front of him and is trying to figure out which side he's seeing it from.
posted by Etrigan at 7:21 AM on March 31, 2023 [17 favorites]

Town and Country magazine has a list of places a "discerning mogul" can flee to and not to be extradited.
posted by Brian B. at 7:21 AM on March 31, 2023 [4 favorites]

Who's up for donating to pay for a full-page ad calling for the death penalty?

Something that is based on the ad he placed. If nothing else, I'll play with adapting it and do a blog post or a Facebook post or something.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:22 AM on March 31, 2023 [3 favorites]

I have a cold so my drink of choice last night was NyQuil.

If conviction happens I think I need to find a party of likeminded souls and get high as fuck.

Wearing a Stormy for President shirt.
posted by emjaybee at 7:24 AM on March 31, 2023 [4 favorites]

My favorite comment I read elsewhere on the internet: "karma moved on him like a bitch" 😄
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 7:28 AM on March 31, 2023 [13 favorites]

My outfit of choice today.
posted by essexjan at 7:31 AM on March 31, 2023 [17 favorites]

Made me laugh.

A man came up to me -a strong man- and he took my hand, with tears in his eyes… and said, “Sir, you have the right to remain silent.”

posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:33 AM on March 31, 2023 [62 favorites]

I happened to be at a Trevor Noah show last night, and the first thing he talked about was Trump’s indictment. The full throated roar of approval from 5000 people brought tears to my eyes, for real. It’s way better than reading “60% don’t want T&$#@ to be president again” in some newspaper.
posted by Carmody'sPrize at 7:49 AM on March 31, 2023 [34 favorites]

Me, but kinda not as athletic.

You gotta post the best version of that video, though.

I've been challenged a fair bit (and sometimes insulted) in Trump threads for being part of the 'wheels of justice grind slowly' perspective, but, well...here we are, first indictment of many. I hope this one renews our reserves of patience somewhat, or at least reminds that actual events don't happen at the pace of TV shows.
posted by LooseFilter at 7:54 AM on March 31, 2023 [15 favorites]

Colbert's audience were pleased too. Best line of the monologue was: "We'll return to this subject as soon as the camera can film me from the waist down again".
posted by Paul Slade at 7:54 AM on March 31, 2023 [23 favorites]

Florida will not assist in an extradition request given the questionable circumstances at issue with this Soros-backed Manhattan prosecutor and his political agenda.


This is literally what a 'sancutary city' is - cities will not spend city resources assisting the Feds at arresting immigrants. I suppose we could have a 'sanctuary state', where state resources are not spent assisting Federal Investigations. So he just created a 'Sanctuary State' for Trump. If Democrats can't beat DeSantis, that's just sad. He self-clowns.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:29 AM on March 31, 2023 [12 favorites]

So what might bail be set at?

Is there a legal limit pursuant to the charges? In my mind… this is akin to the arrest of a Colombian drug lord or ISIS leader. As noted above, the flight risk alone oughta make him sit in jail. I’ll be happy if he has to wear an ankle monitor.

Forget a trial… I’m betting the OFFICE OF THE FORMER PRESIDENT will soon declare Mar-a-Lago a sovereign state.
posted by jabo at 8:38 AM on March 31, 2023 [2 favorites]

Florida will not assist in an extradition request

Trump is literally surrounded by federal agents, right? Ones assigned to him as his post-Presidential protection? Aren't they obligated to do things?

For the most part I'm surprised he isn't already in Russia, but as others have said that'd be admission that he can't win -- not admission of guilt, he's pretty much all but done that every time he opens his mouth about the case, but he's of that level where their lives revolve around the idea that being guilty doesn't preclude you from winning.
posted by AzraelBrown at 8:42 AM on March 31, 2023 [2 favorites]

It's literally in the constitution that states are obligated to extradite for trials.
posted by hippybear at 8:43 AM on March 31, 2023 [11 favorites]

In other totally unrelated Florida news that is almost certainly not a coincidence: "The Legislature intends to revise laws relating to elections", leading to "speculation the bill could be a change to Florida’s resign-to-run law that could allow Gov. Ron DeSantis to launch a campaign for President without promising to leave his state office mid-term". As a state senator Tracie Davis summarized: "surely the legislature wouldn’t put in a last-minute, vague elections bill that could cause sweeping change to our democr- oh wait.".
posted by autopilot at 8:46 AM on March 31, 2023 [11 favorites]

So what might bail be set at?

He's (presumably) being charged with non-violent felonies. State of New York is forbidden from even asking for bail.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 8:47 AM on March 31, 2023 [1 favorite]

I don't like Hillary.... I can't fucking believe we're fighting for abortion, AGAIN!

That's what she said.
posted by Brian B. at 8:52 AM on March 31, 2023 [16 favorites]

Oh, the Dana Milbank piece linked a linked a short way up is worth it. First, for its summary of GQP incompetence combined with insanity. Second, for the line about Bobert"s babbling at the inane public urination debate - she "couldn't hold it."

I, too, am puzzled by anyone still discussing a flight to Moscow. Putin doesn't give a sh*t. The Thing is only of value while he is still in the US. But I also am perplexed by the idea that DeSantis will have to abide by the Fed law. Dude literally kidnapped people in another state and NO ONE, including Feds, did anything to him.

Also, having correctly predicted 7 years ago that The Thing would not leave office peacefully, as my initial jubilation subsides now, I am wondering how arraignment day will go. Narciccistic sociopath CAN'T be humiliated.

You know, I'm too much of an empath in some ways. For a brief moment last night, I actually felt a little sorry for him.

Then I remembered on top of everything else how my mother spent the last year of her life, March '20-April '21, in isolation. While people were also dropping like flies in Detroit, and my governor was begging the Feds for help. And how that sociopathic monster told pence not to call "that woman from Michigan."

Fuck him to hell forever, mefi.

On a lighter note (abrupt transition!), someone mentioned this is like the old days of mefi. It was a bit like the old days of twitter last night, too. (Tho I still need to break my addiction to the latter.)
posted by NorthernLite at 8:53 AM on March 31, 2023 [18 favorites]

TRUMP 2024: PARDON ME?
posted by mazola at 8:54 AM on March 31, 2023 [11 favorites]

Based on the reverse-raccoon appearance he has had frequently, that's a spray-on color, not a cream that's being applied.

This got blown open back in 2019. There was a WaPo story about the Trump organization hiring undocumented housekeepers, and one of the details was that they had to set out exactly 2.5 bottles of "Bronx Colors-brand face makeup from Switzerland." Bronx Colors immediately ran with it, promoting its orange concealer. It was obscure and specific enough that it seems like the real deal. I guess the raccoon-eyes was just because he never thought about people seeing his eyelids.
posted by netowl at 9:03 AM on March 31, 2023 [3 favorites]

His face looks like a scrotum

Can we not
posted by tzikeh at 9:15 AM on March 31, 2023 [4 favorites]

But I also am perplexed by the idea that DeSantis will have to abide by the Fed law.

he can't stop extradition - but if he doesn't want to stop thousands of demonstrators descending on mar a lago to block the feds from taking him, there's really no legal obligation that says he has to

of course, i'm not so sure there will be thousands - i think he's used up the patience of many of his supporters, who probably aren't willing to lose everything for his ass the way a lot of the jan 6th people did
posted by pyramid termite at 9:17 AM on March 31, 2023 [1 favorite]

Governor of Virginia also walking the tight rope of 'this is bad but also, hey I can be President too!'
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 9:17 AM on March 31, 2023

> That's a lot of writing for one cake. You're going to need either very neat, small lettering skills or a multitude of cakes. Not a very hard choice...

The problem though is as your number of cakes approaches 40, you exponentially increase the odds some villain will be tempted to steal them. But whom? HerrSantis? Ol Muskie? The M&Ms Fetishist on Fox? Black Oil Rudy? I haven't any confidence in my ability to predict what The Writers have in store for us next.

(I do feel ethically compelled to apologize to Lex Luther for that unfair comparison to these malcompetant idiots.)
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 9:20 AM on March 31, 2023

> TRUMP 2024: PARDON ME?

"pardon me?" feels like a running joke they would have on Arrested Development if they wrote in a timeline where the Bluths make it to the white house.
posted by dis_integration at 9:24 AM on March 31, 2023 [16 favorites]

The Bluths were so corrupt, and yet positively lawful good compared to the Trump years. Gob really did seem like a Trump child, though.
posted by rikschell at 9:32 AM on March 31, 2023 [8 favorites]

I agree with dis_integration above. I can't see any way they'll find a jury without at least one MAGA type who'll refuse to convict, no matter what. Which isn't to say that we shouldn't try for justice anyway but I don't have high hopes. And MAGA jury nullification is going to get worse if stochastic terrorism increases. Run over a bunch of protestors? No problem, as long as you have at least one ace in the hole.
posted by Candleman at 9:38 AM on March 31, 2023 [4 favorites]

Even aside from the fact that he actually did the things, it's wild watching the guy elected by crowds he trained to chant "lock her up!" and who tried to sic the DOJ and the FCC on SNL and Jimmy Kimmel for making fun of him, pearl-clutch at the idea that government might be used to target enemies.

I mean, that's like his favorite thing.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:38 AM on March 31, 2023 [22 favorites]

If it’s still wild to you that the GOP is nakedly hypocritical, you must lead a pretty wild life, lol.
posted by rikschell at 9:42 AM on March 31, 2023 [8 favorites]

it's wild watching the guy elected by crowds he trained to chant "lock her up!" and who tried to sic the DOJ and the FCC on SNL and Jimmy Kimmel for making fun of him, pearl-clutch at the idea that government might be used to target enemies.

This surprises you? "It's okay for me to do it to you, but not for you to do it to me" is, like, par for the course in politics these days.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:43 AM on March 31, 2023 [7 favorites]

Candleman, while that's theoretically possible, if you've been on a jury, you'll know the pressure to go along with the majority so people can go home and eat dinner and who cares if this person goes to jail is pretty immense.

It's... not a great system.

If there manages to be two who think like that, then it would be more likely, as they can egg each other on, but the selection process is designed to filter out people with extreme opinions, and since the lawyers involved have to agree, there's some pressure to ensure the jury is balanced and of as neutral an opinion as possible.
posted by jellywerker at 9:53 AM on March 31, 2023 [6 favorites]

I'm aware hypocrisy is their brand. But it never gets less weird to me.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:01 AM on March 31, 2023 [7 favorites]

While trump is no Conservative in most senses, in the only sense - the Wilhoitian sense - he VERY MUCH IS


“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."
posted by lalochezia at 10:04 AM on March 31, 2023 [17 favorites]

“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."

Exactly. Everyone needs to get over the notion that Republicans feel any shame at all about bad faith and double standards. To coin a phrase, the double standard is the point. Playing "gotcha" only reasserts their power in applying different standards to themselves and others. (I've certainly been guilty of it myself!)

The proper response should be that the above so-called "principle" is thoroughly undemocratic and thoroughly un-American, and the more Republicans embrace it, the more proudly they make their fascist leanings clear. And while many Republican voters have embraced fascism as the only way for a minority to inflict an unpopular agenda, there are more of us than there are of them.
posted by Gelatin at 10:33 AM on March 31, 2023 [10 favorites]

Mod note: One deleted, we get it, wanting "to see Trump in front of a firing squad." is not unheard of... bur our Content Policy does not allow violence. "It can be okay to talk in strongly critical terms about people's words but don't cross the line into any threats of violence or wishing violence on other people." - Yes, even when it comes to horrible people.
posted by loup (staff) at 10:36 AM on March 31, 2023 [21 favorites]

@RonFilipkowski: Statement from Mitch McConnell
posted by mazola at 10:44 AM on March 31, 2023 [1 favorite]

His face looks like a scrotum.

Can we not?

Indeed -- not only is it factually untrue but also it is an insult to scrota everywhere.
posted by y2karl at 10:46 AM on March 31, 2023 [17 favorites]

The Lincoln Project - Indictment Requiem
posted by box at 10:48 AM on March 31, 2023 [2 favorites]

@RonFilipkowski: Statement from Mitch McConnell

Okay this is the dumbest timeline so: That's an intentionally blank thing as a joke about what a craven shitbag McConnell is, right? Not an actual statement issued by McConnell that appears blank because it got eated when Musk was dryfucking the servers again?
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 10:52 AM on March 31, 2023 [7 favorites]

Everyone needs to get over the notion that Republicans feel any shame at all about bad faith and double standards. To coin a phrase, the double standard is the point. Playing "gotcha" only reasserts their power in applying different standards to themselves and others. (I've certainly been guilty of it myself!)

Before this goes any further... I never said I was surprised, let alone that I hold that weird opinion people have where as soon the hypocrisy is exposed, that will show them! I just said it was wild. It is. It's deeply fucking weird. It's not surprising. Pointing it out won't change anything. But I am allowed as a person to note rank hypocrisy and find it staggering all the same.

We've kind of gone from mildly misreading me to designating me spokesperson for a stupid opinion I do not have. So let's just nip that in bud and talk about other things, thanks.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:56 AM on March 31, 2023 [35 favorites]

And I should clarify that when I say "everyone" I mean much less "everyone here" than I do "everyone in our political system," such as Democratic politicians and the so-called "liberal media" that play into Republican hands by not understanding -- deliberately or otherwise -- that Republican double standards are less about hypocrisy and more about a full throated expression of their values.

Even hypocrisy -- believing in justice generally, but pretending not to for Trump's sake -- is less shameful than believing in "lock her up" for Hillary Clinton and then giving Trump a pass for crimes he committed obviously and years ago, and pretending that these charges -- which have the weight of evidence behind them -- are some kind of "witch hunt." As a malignant narcissist, Trump has to do so for his ego. Everyone else makes a choice.
posted by Gelatin at 11:02 AM on March 31, 2023 [4 favorites]

The Lincoln Project - Indictment Requiem

*watches video*

*raises hand*

One question - ham sandwiches?.....
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:08 AM on March 31, 2023 [1 favorite]

(Ham sandwiches (not to be confused with hamberders))
posted by box at 11:15 AM on March 31, 2023 [1 favorite]

it is an insult to scrota everywhere

I'm getting phantom jock itch just imagining the degree of inflammation that would be required to make the comparison work.
posted by flabdablet at 11:17 AM on March 31, 2023

I'm getting phantom jock itch just thinking about it.

But if Trump DID look like a scrotum, would that be a Fascist Jock Itch?

(OK I know it's a reach, but how often do I get to link Skinny Puppy here?)
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 11:23 AM on March 31, 2023 [11 favorites]

DeSantis can play the "we won't cooperate" card because he knows it's a bluff. It's been reported for weeks that Trump would cooperate with the Feds. So DeSantis is just posing hoping to attract Trump supporters after 45 goes down in flames.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 11:27 AM on March 31, 2023 [6 favorites]

"pardon me?" feels like a running joke they would have on Arrested Development

"There's a good chance I may have committed some light treason."
posted by kirkaracha at 11:28 AM on March 31, 2023 [8 favorites]

Perhaps he'll decide to represent himself in court. Oh please let him decide to represent himself in court.
posted by Paul Slade at 11:31 AM on March 31, 2023 [10 favorites]

I can't see any way they'll find a jury without at least one MAGA type who'll refuse to convict, no matter what.


Anyone know what the rules are on jury challenges here? I'd have thought that process alone would be so hotly fought it might take a few months.
posted by Paul Slade at 11:34 AM on March 31, 2023 [3 favorites]

I have a bet with myself that if there are enough challenges, the jury will be composed of people who basically don't follow the news. This doesn't necessarily mean they're stupid, they might just be busy with other things.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 12:22 PM on March 31, 2023

I’m trying to decide if I should attempt to get over my intense loathing of going to a restaurant alone and celebrating completing my first full week of radiation treatment with the added tasty schadenfreude dessert of indictment, or nah. Living alone sucks when you want to do the happy indictment day dance.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 12:32 PM on March 31, 2023 [26 favorites]

Well, if there are 30+ charges, then I retract my upthread grumpiness.
posted by Optamystic at 12:33 PM on March 31, 2023 [2 favorites]

Sending best wishes to my American friends and neighbours who are enjoying this small but important shaft of sunlight.

Would Trump fleeing to Russia, or some other safe haven for despots, be such a bad outcome? There would be no further denying that Trump has zero regard for the laws of the land. Or for the land, the country, itself. Imagine if Trump did attempt to flee and got caught in the attempt...

The biggest downside to Trump's likely prosecution and conviction is that it could direct more MAGA wind into DeSantis's sails. Trump is an accidental fascist as a byproduct of his epic narcissism. DeSantis is the real deal.
posted by Artful Codger at 12:58 PM on March 31, 2023 [4 favorites]

I'm getting phantom jock itch just thinking about it.
posted by y2karl at 12:58 PM on March 31, 2023

I don't see how Trump could get to Russia. How would that happen? He'd have to tell the Secret Service he wanted to fly without them, and get flight permission as normal, but then get the pilots to fly out of the US and into a country that is restricted by a multitude of sanctions, from where they might not be able to get out.
I feel the only way this could happen was if the government let him do it in order to avoid the drama of all the indictments. But having Trump in exile in Russia, plotting to return to the US to overturn the government? Doesn't feel right to me.
posted by mumimor at 1:18 PM on March 31, 2023 [2 favorites]

American friends and neighbours who are enjoying this small but important shaft

something something tiny hands something
posted by flabdablet at 1:26 PM on March 31, 2023 [4 favorites]

I guess the raccoon-eyes was just because he never thought about people seeing his eyelids.

I contend that this, with well-done steaks and McDonalds, fits a fear of being poisoned.
posted by rhizome at 1:33 PM on March 31, 2023 [1 favorite]

Nancy Lebovitz: ...the jury will be composed of people who basically don't follow the news.

So, Trump voters, then?
posted by wenestvedt at 1:35 PM on March 31, 2023 [2 favorites]

I don't see how Trump could get to Russia. How would that happen?

he could hire thugs to neutralize his secret service detail.

it'd probably be difficult to get them past screening directly onto a plane, but foreign agents don't seem to have a problem getting into Mar-a-lago, so that'd probably be the way to infiltrate the thugs. of course once the SS detail goes offline, there's a limited window before they're missed, so you probably need a jet gassed and waiting at palm beach international. it'd be a few minutes chopper ride across the intercoastal, so mmmmaybe it's just possible for the plane to get wheels up before anyone can lock down the airport. assuming that all goes to plan, it's white-knuckle wet-belly flying until he's out of range of the F-16s at Homestead and into international air space.
posted by logicpunk at 1:37 PM on March 31, 2023 [2 favorites]

I don't see how Trump could get to Russia.

The scenario in my head involves a Russian sub surfacing at a pre-arranged time off Mar-a-Lago, but I suspect that's pure spy-movie stuff.
posted by Epixonti at 1:40 PM on March 31, 2023 [1 favorite]

First, be smart from the very beginning.
posted by Melismata at 1:40 PM on March 31, 2023 [28 favorites]

Corrupt a couple SS folks and make sure they're on the same detail.
posted by joannemerriam at 1:42 PM on March 31, 2023 [1 favorite]

I'd be surprised if Trump goes to a NY State prison. The gov't. is obligated to protect him. House arrest seems possible. Russia? Why wouldn't Putin poison or otherwise throw him to the wolves; his usefulness is ended and he'd be a net expense. And Trump would mostly get ignored by the American press, which he would never tolerate.

I want a bumper sticker that says Convict on an orange background, maybe I'll print some. or Convict 45.

I'm going to take it for granted that NY State has done a very, very thorough job. Too risky to screw it up. And I hope Biden's DOJ plans to indict, ideally in good timing for the 2024 campaign. Biden has proved to be a shrewd campaigner. Pile it on. Truth or anything like it has become so debased that the Trumpers and GOPers will never give up, but most voters aren't truly deranged, just not very diligent. People vote with their feelings. And I want the corruption exposed. It needs to be brought to light because maybe people will see it in the future.

I was out with friends, didn't hear the news until just before I piled in to bed, but when TFG said he would be arrested, I bought some small bottles of champagne, and will have one later. As Thomas Wolfe(and others before him) said The mills of the gods grind slowly, but they grind exceeding fine. We can only hope.
posted by theora55 at 1:48 PM on March 31, 2023 [6 favorites]

he could just dress as bubba ho-tep and ride his canary yellow caddy until he reaches Kings Bay.
posted by clavdivs at 1:53 PM on March 31, 2023 [6 favorites]

I want a bumper sticker that says Convict on an orange background, maybe I'll print some. or Convict 45.

I gotta be honest, if I saw that bumper sticker on a car my first thought would be, "Is there some cruel branch of government that's forcing ex-cons to label their vehicles now?"
posted by Inkslinger at 1:58 PM on March 31, 2023 [7 favorites]

(sometime next week somewhere in Manhattan, an unscheduled stop is made)

""Thanks Rudy, the setting looks..."
(ding-dong)

"who is it"

"Drizzley, have...gin"

"no one ordered gin...."

"pizza"

NO!

(ding-dong)

"speedy delivery"

"who is that, really"

"Landshark"

Rudy, it's your..."

(knock-knock)

"who's there"

"Secret Service"

door opens-
posted by clavdivs at 2:22 PM on March 31, 2023 [4 favorites]

Christ, what an asshole.
posted by Monkey0nCrack at 2:31 PM on March 31, 2023 [1 favorite]

The scenario in my head involves a Russian sub surfacing at a pre-arranged time off Mar-a-Lago, but I suspect that's pure spy-movie stuff.

I’m imagining it as more of an Armando Giovanni-esque farce.
posted by dephlogisticated at 2:38 PM on March 31, 2023 [3 favorites]

I cannot imagine Trump successfully physically navigating a boat-to-submarine transfer successfully without a lot of worthwhile physical comedy taking place.
posted by hippybear at 2:40 PM on March 31, 2023 [26 favorites]

For Trump to get out would require internal collaborators to smuggle him or someone external to extract him. Or both. Not impossible but really complicated and risky. I think he'll probably stay. He definitely believes he could become President from prison. He really doesn't want DeSantis to win.
posted by emjaybee at 2:59 PM on March 31, 2023 [1 favorite]

We caught you standing over the body with a bloody knife in your hand. What is your defence?

Your honor, I'm running for re-election.

Case dismissed!

This is an actual argument coming from the right.
posted by adept256 at 3:21 PM on March 31, 2023 [16 favorites]

The scenario in my head involves a Russian sub surfacing at a pre-arranged time off Mar-a-Lago, but I suspect that's pure spy-movie stuff.

Cohen Brother's "Hail Caesar"
posted by mikelieman at 3:51 PM on March 31, 2023 [11 favorites]

No handcuffs, no mug shot, nuffin. :(
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:15 PM on March 31, 2023

Also can't wait for scholarly essays on the life and impact of Stormy Daniels.

A lot more teenage boys are going to decide to major in history
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:25 PM on March 31, 2023 [2 favorites]

On the one hand we have so many of his mug already. On the other - it would be such a historic photo! Com'on! 📸
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:37 PM on March 31, 2023 [2 favorites]

Doesn't have to be Russia of course. Merely any country unable or unwilling to extradite.

Just as Tina Turner is (for Americans) probably the most famous citizen of Switzerland, perhaps by autumn, 45 will be the most well-known resident of Gabon.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:46 PM on March 31, 2023

It's near impossible to predict which memes will take off, but the mugshot will instantly join the pantheon of epic memes.

I'd like mine in a tasteful Warhol print format. I'll hang it in the bathroom.
posted by adept256 at 4:49 PM on March 31, 2023 [3 favorites]

Candleman, while that's theoretically possible, if you've been on a jury, you'll know the pressure to go along with the majority so people can go home and eat dinner and who cares if this person goes to jail is pretty immense.

Alexander Pope once noted, “Wretches hang that jury-men may dine.”
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:52 PM on March 31, 2023 [9 favorites]

I'd like mine in a tasteful Warhol print format.

Given the current Prince/Warhol case making itself through the courts right now, this is an interesting idea.
posted by hippybear at 4:52 PM on March 31, 2023

No handcuffs, no mug shot, nuffin. :(

Why the special treatment? Aren't those standard practice in New York?
posted by kirkaracha at 5:01 PM on March 31, 2023 [1 favorite]

"A lot more teenage boys are going to decide to major in history"

Will American public high schools be permitted to discuss this historical event?
posted by Selena777 at 5:02 PM on March 31, 2023 [11 favorites]

Perhaps he'll decide to represent himself in court. Oh please let him decide to represent himself in court.
Are you crazy? He knows damn well he'll never get paid!
posted by dannyboybell at 5:11 PM on March 31, 2023 [19 favorites]

I don't see how Trump could get to Russia.

Yesterday, Russia arrested WSJ reporter Evan Gershkovich [espionage charges]; I'm okay with trading.
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:12 PM on March 31, 2023 [7 favorites]

Will American public high schools be permitted to discuss this historical event?

I'm sure it will theoretically be in the book at some point, but American history keeps getting longer every year come up but the school year remains the same I think we got to Vietnam by the end of the school year when I was a kid.
posted by pwnguin at 6:55 PM on March 31, 2023 [1 favorite]

Vietnam? Criminy. We never got past the Civil War.
posted by kyrademon at 7:35 PM on March 31, 2023 [5 favorites]

On the lack of mug shot - I actually had second thoughts about that too, because: do you really want him to have access to that as a fundraising tool? And imagine what a dog-and-pony show he would turn the perp walk into.

Let's not give him the satisfaction.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:41 PM on March 31, 2023 [6 favorites]

Vietnam? Criminy. We never got past the Civil War.

Yeah, neither did a lot of people.
posted by Etrigan at 7:44 PM on March 31, 2023 [66 favorites]

...American history keeps getting longer every year come up but the school year remains the same...

This is why I argue to forget about some past things, eventually there are going to be too many things to learn in a reasonable time and you're going to be 80 and still not have gotten to everything "you should know". It's ridonculous.

Still back in 85/86 I had a brutal AP US History teacher. You got to class as soon as possible to start copying down the outline that is wrapped around the room on the blackboards because when the bell rang he would just get up and start talking until the bell rang again when he'd erase the parts covered and start writing out the ever continuing outline for tomorrow. A bunch of us seniors took his World History class the next year as an easy grade (there were freshmen in the class, not AP). It was the same but a bit slower. Great teacher. But he'd also probably be a Trump supporter, he was a Regan supporter and fighting with our liberal AP Government teacher all the time, and he was also a Sunday School teacher and terribly homophobic with no qualms about dropping in that all these people were now burning in Hell. That was pretty normal for the time and place, we kids mostly just lol'd at old man doing his Hell thing. He finally tool early retirement for refusing to apologize for telling a student they were going to burn in Hell with the rest of the lot of homosexuals. No surprise to anyone. Still a pretty damn good US/World history teacher, one of the best.
posted by zengargoyle at 8:14 PM on March 31, 2023 [3 favorites]

Of course he was. History is written (and told) by fascists.
posted by tiny frying pan at 8:25 PM on March 31, 2023 [4 favorites]

(Burns Das Kapital)
posted by clavdivs at 8:32 PM on March 31, 2023

History is written (and told) by fascists.

Oh, I dunno. I had a "social studies" teacher in high school. Still not quite sure what that subject was, but this woman was on FIRE. She let us know in the first day of class that she did not watch her language and handed out drop slips for anyone who objected. She talked at length about the wars after WWII (this was in the mid-80s), and she was pretty frank about US failures as well as successes. One category was larger than the other.

She also offered a film series in the library in the evening once a week. It was entirely voluntary, required parental permission slips, and featured films like Rollerball and Silent Running and Apocalypse Now and a lot of other movies she considered culturally relevant to her views. There was no credit for attending, but you could exchange each attendance to a film for one letter grade higher on your lowest assignment. So basically by going to see her movie course across the school year, you could erase any bad grades you had and potentially even graduate with an A in her class even if you weren't an A sort of student.

Because she thought that exposing minds to ideas was more important than the curriculum, and she wanted to wake people up instead of indoctrinate them.

Kay Kindt. That's her name, for history to reflect upon. Me and so many of my fellow students during her tenure at that high school were deeply affected by what she wanted to share with us. Stuff we had never heard of, stuff our parents wouldn't have shown us because THEY had never heard of it.

Peaceful rest to you, Kay Kindt. You planted your seeds, and your name and legacy are often shared from those you taught to others those students meet.
posted by hippybear at 8:37 PM on March 31, 2023 [79 favorites]

Um...yeah. Of course? I had good teachers too. I trust most MeFites know I wasn't indicating (haha) all teachers by saying history is written, told and hey championed by fascists.

For example! I'm 43 and public school in the U.S. barely spent an hour on indigenous people here, the holocaust, or anything remotely honest regarding slavery. That's the context of my comment.

I had good teachers too. But.
posted by tiny frying pan at 8:41 PM on March 31, 2023 [1 favorite]

my Marxist survey teacher said quote every American should sue their high School unquote

best teacher I ever had
posted by clavdivs at 10:14 PM on March 31, 2023 [6 favorites]

the history teacher that comes to mind for me was an absolute bastard on a personal level, but he also happened to be a great teacher. Nobody graduated History 12 without a firm grasp of what the hell had gone down in the 20th Century up to and including the Vietnam War (it was 1977), but with special focus on the Holocaust. We went deep and thorough into that.
posted by philip-random at 10:44 PM on March 31, 2023 [2 favorites]

the best history teacher I ever had was also a special interests kind of guy so I learned a ton about the My Lai massacre and Tucker automobiles & basically nothing about anything else post-WWII
posted by taquito sunrise at 10:58 PM on March 31, 2023

wenestvedtL

Nancy Lebovitz: ...the jury will be composed of people who basically don't follow the news.

So, Trump voters, then?

No, that isn't what I meant at all. You might not consider Fox etc. to be news, but for purposes of jury challenges, being a Fox enthusiast could well be disqualifying.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 11:12 PM on March 31, 2023 [2 favorites]

I don't see how Trump could get to Russia. How would that happen?

Do a day trip on his own jet to Seattle, then on the return trip, instead of going to Miami, go to Russia. What are we going to do, shoot down a jet? Assuming he had Russia's permission to enter ahead of time, that's all he needs. Tell the Secret Service agents in the air they're going to Russia, but they will be returned after landing.

It's the "Russia's permission" part that isn't a sure thing.
posted by ctmf at 12:17 AM on April 1, 2023 [3 favorites]

I wonder if Secret Service protection of current/past presidents is personal or national. What are they 'protecting'. What would actually happen if he took Secret Service to Russia?
posted by zengargoyle at 12:27 AM on April 1, 2023 [1 favorite]

Do a day trip on his own jet to Seattle, then on the return trip, instead of going to Miami, go to Russia. What are we going to do, shoot down a jet? Assuming he had Russia's permission to enter ahead of time, that's all he needs. Tell the Secret Service agents in the air they're going to Russia, but they will be returned after landing.

What about the pilots and the rest of the staff on board? They would potentially be doing something criminal by aiding Trump in escaping justice, and they wouldn't have the same protections as Trump in Russia.

Well, enough of that.
Yesterday, my history class was about the last 40 years, and I was on a bit of a high both because of the Trump-news and because the event Thursday had worked out well. So I let loose... Suffice it to say that some of my students looked at me in a completely new way afterwards. A good way.
posted by mumimor at 12:55 AM on April 1, 2023 [13 favorites]

Watch your back.

Both my parents were teachers - good ones - and if there's one thing I learned from them, it's that the priorities of educational administrators very rarely align with those of good educators.
posted by flabdablet at 1:28 AM on April 1, 2023 [12 favorites]

It's the "Russia's permission" part that isn't a sure thing.

Now you're making things interesting.
posted by y2karl at 4:20 AM on April 1, 2023 [1 favorite]

What are we going to do, shoot down a jet?

Not because of the Daniels payoff, but for anyone with the access to classified information he has had, I would assume that is an option, if not standard protocol. It would seem like a pretty big national security risk to just assume he never paid attention during briefings.
posted by snofoam at 5:09 AM on April 1, 2023 [3 favorites]

Huge risk. Some other country might learn the top secret bleach ingestion protocol for curing Covid.
posted by flabdablet at 7:27 AM on April 1, 2023 [1 favorite]

the best history teacher I ever had was also a special interests kind of guy so I learned a ton about the My Lai massacre and Tucker automobiles & basically nothing about anything else post-WWII

My U.S. government teacher had a picture of him getting beaten by SDSU cops at a Vietnam war protest, so we covered My Lai along with a ton of civil rights rules. Growing up in an Orange County Republican family, I’m glad he assigned authors like Zinn and Loewen, various San Diego county labor history, etc. Having done the right to left migration has come in handy for recognizing exactly where the world Republicans nostalgically long for never existed.

In a very American tragedy, he stopped teaching after a school shooting. Having a student bleed out while he was trying to keep them awake long enough for the EMTs to get there was too much.
posted by adamsc at 8:08 AM on April 1, 2023 [31 favorites]

Putin in Moscow has power. Putin in Beijing is just a guy with an appointment at the Hague.

I'm making this parallel in response to the dozens of comments here about Trump fleeing. Putin is losing a war. He has been indicted too, for devastating war crimes. Will Putin flee? No. Nyet. Because it's impossible. Putin in Beijing, or Pyongyang, or Tehran, doesn't have power - no power but being a token, a hostage. Useless but embarrassing. The embarrassment of Putin the exile.

And so goes Trump.
posted by adept256 at 8:37 AM on April 1, 2023 [4 favorites]

Do a day trip on his own jet to Seattle, then on the return trip, instead of going to Miami, go to Russia.

Seattle may not be a good day trip destination. He is not well liked in PNW cities after murdering protesters. He could just as easily sail a friend's yacht to Cuba from his Miami headquarters, and from there hitch a cargo ship and onwards to freedom, cocaine, and Russian hookers.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:29 AM on April 1, 2023 [1 favorite]

Detailed Chronology in Trump-Cohen Hush Money Investigation (Note that most of the attention has been to the hush money to Stephanie Clifford (aka “Stormy Daniels”), but he also had Michael Cohen pay hush money to Karen McDougal.)
What to know about the Trump-E. Jean Carroll case set for an April trial (Washington Post gift link)
Fifty years of investigations on Trump, visualized (Washington Post gift link)
posted by kirkaracha at 11:14 AM on April 1, 2023 [9 favorites]

Experts give Georgia angle on New York Trump indictment (WXIA, Atlanta-area NBC affiliate)
Why it matters that Pence has been ordered to testify in Jan. 6 case (MSNBC's MaddowBlog)
posted by box at 12:40 PM on April 1, 2023 [3 favorites]

First, be smart from the very beginning.

And that is like the total Donald Trump modus operandi from Day One, is it not?
posted by y2karl at 1:59 PM on April 1, 2023 [4 favorites]

Yes, he started by removing the toilets for easier access to the sewer main.
posted by hippybear at 2:20 PM on April 1, 2023 [3 favorites]

I am worried that this will lead to a lot of violence and possibly the end of democracy as we know it. He is going down swinging and his followers will fight. With their guns.

I am very worried.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 2:27 PM on April 1, 2023 [2 favorites]

The job of a democracy is to demonstrate that it's strong enough to defend itself and withstand that.

Also, that assumes that no part of the process in the future will affect their allegiance. Fox News radio is already saying (verbatim) "you're either with us or you're against us," and that real conservatives support Trump. Maybe it's a failure of my imagination, but they don't seem to have much runway left before they hit full-on attributable incitement. I think we might be seeing more of Trump's "death and destruction" line, and at any rate I can't imagine all Republicans going along with the Boogaloo Boys.
posted by rhizome at 2:44 PM on April 1, 2023 [1 favorite]

He is going down swinging and his followers will fight. With their guns.

This is why it's best if they are constantly whining about the law. They know they would lose their guns forever, the bank already owns their truck.
posted by Brian B. at 2:48 PM on April 1, 2023 [2 favorites]

Just remember, these are the same people that are so scared of their own shadow that they carry an ar-15 to costco when they buy a decade's worth of toilet paper.
posted by OHenryPacey at 3:18 PM on April 1, 2023 [6 favorites]

DeSantis and Pence are both (unofficially so far) running against Trump in 2024. This is golden opportunity for them to stick a shiv in Trump with the added bonus of doing the morally and legally correct thing. Instead they fall in line like the cowards they are. This makes me less afraid of DeSantis.

However, I am both afraid and angry about DeSantis' bullshit and unconstitutional claim that he would not assist in an extradition request. It's another dangerous example of Republicans' contempt for the rule of law and lack of faith in our system.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:33 PM on April 1, 2023 [5 favorites]

I haven't had to use it often, but I've long had an "I see a gun, I leave the situation" policy. Even living in the part of Washington state that is nearly in the totally nutbags part of Idaho, I don't see many guns out in daily life.

I will say, there have been two times in the 20 years I've been living here where I was doing shopping in a store that's in the bigger nearby city and I've seen someone with a gun in the store, doing that whole "open carry" bullshit. I'm not even sure if it's legal here. But anyway, both times I've taken my cart full of things to the front of the store to the customer service counter and said "someone is here with a gun, you'll have to put all this away" and walked out the door not answering any responses to my action.

Enough people do this often enough, stores won't want to spend the money on the manpower to restock and will enact reasonable gun control measures if their local laws allow them.
posted by hippybear at 3:38 PM on April 1, 2023 [48 favorites]

He is going down swinging and his followers will fight. With their guns.

Fortunately, the current president is NOT Trump, and that person is Commander in Chief of an enormous military, many members of which have been trained in de-escalating guerilla warfare-type situations, and I'm sure he would call upon at least SOME of them to defray the situation should this actually come to pass.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:25 PM on April 1, 2023 [11 favorites]

In preperation for Tuesday, I have purchased a few small pu-erh tea oranges, from a local shop that specializes in Chinese teas. (For the Puget Sound folk, I went to New Century Tea in the CID, in Seattle.)

I cannot wait to brew one up in my tea setup, and sip on this delicious brew while watching all of the events of the day.
posted by spinifex23 at 4:26 PM on April 1, 2023 [3 favorites]

Being aware of and prepared for the potential for calls for violence from Trump as he flames out is prudent. However, regarding any calls to avoid prosecuting Trump out of fear of violence, I think Daniel Kahn and the Painted Bird sung it best. Lack of consequences for illegal activities from “too big to fail” actors of various sorts is how we got here in the first place.
posted by eviemath at 4:31 PM on April 1, 2023 [17 favorites]

In preperation for Tuesday, I have purchased a few small pu-erh tea oranges, from a local shop that specializes in Chinese teas.

I'm making an orange cake tonight and putting nuts in it. (I bake a simple cake nearly every weekend, the current events dictated the exact flavor this week.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:32 PM on April 1, 2023 [4 favorites]

Will there be words?

I'm a longtime fan of the Trump megathreads, and this is the best so far.
posted by MtDewd at 4:53 PM on April 1, 2023 [7 favorites]

I have a long history of being wrong in my political predictions, but I don't see any reason at all Trump would flee to Russia. Or anywhere else. He'll have everything tied up in appeals until he dies of old age.
posted by sotonohito at 6:46 PM on April 1, 2023 [17 favorites]

well, as long we're prognosticating, I've said it before, I suspect I'll say it again.

This whole thing climaxes with Trump On The Run -- some kinda TV series.
posted by philip-random at 7:37 PM on April 1, 2023 [1 favorite]

The One Thing All Angry Men Have In Common

Especially Trump.
posted by Brian B. at 8:09 PM on April 1, 2023 [2 favorites]

This whole thing climaxes with Trump On The Run

McCartney is preemptively suing to not be involved with the theme song.
posted by hippybear at 8:14 PM on April 1, 2023 [7 favorites]

Breaking: FEDS GUN DOWN NIXON OUTSIDE ARIZONA MOTEL
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:13 AM on April 2, 2023 [5 favorites]

He could just as easily sail a friend's yacht to Cuba from his Miami headquarters, and from there hitch a cargo ship and onwards to freedom, cocaine, and Russian hookers.

It's interesting to consider the sort of destinations within a private jet's flying radius from Palm Beach. If you're a tin-pot dictator on the run, there aren't as many other tin-pot dictators within that flying distance for you to bunk up with in an emergency. Certainly not as many as there used to be.

Most Caribbean nations would probably see the downsides of a Trump arrival (starting with diplomatic pressure from the U.S.) outweighing any upsides. It would be fascinating to consider Trump as a refugee in Haiti, but it just doesn't seem like his style.

Cuba and Venezuela would probably put their recent memories of Trump trash-talking them above any pressure from Russia, and not accept him. Nicaragua would be a very outside possibility for a Russian asset to escape to, but here too, the idea of Trump asking Sandinistas for asylum is a reality-show twist I wouldn't foresee.

Slender chance he could land in Guatemala or El Salvador, as places that have a history of right-wing chestbeating, but here too, U.S. pressure and extradition probably wins.

If this guy were still president of Suriname, he could probably be bought, but he's out of power now.

I'd expect a nation like Colombia would hand him over to the proper authorities summarily and professionally. As would Mexico, possibly with a deliciously sarcastic statement about keeping out unwanted immigrants.

Going anywhere further by air would require a conspiracy beyond what he could do with people in his immediate employ. You'd need to be able to corrupt people in airport security and management in the U.S. to get a full-sized jet arranged, for starters.
posted by gimonca at 10:31 AM on April 2, 2023 [1 favorite]

I'm not an expert on Law of the Sea, but it looks like apprehending a fugitive on the high seas can be done, at least in some circumstances. This is just one example, the details of the event here may not apply to all cases...
posted by gimonca at 10:35 AM on April 2, 2023

Ashley Parker and Josh Dawsey for WaPo: How Trump is responding to unprecedented indictment (gift link)

Maggie Haberman for NYT: 'He is extremely angry and his family is, not surprisingly, rattled' (gift link).
posted by box at 10:39 AM on April 2, 2023 [5 favorites]

Welp, I watched a video on the former Manhattan DA (on msnbc.com/jenpsaki but I can't find a direct video link and it probably won't stay on that page forever) saying that the most jail time Trump could get was 4 years and most likely he'll just get none. Sigh.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:07 PM on April 2, 2023 [1 favorite]

He's not young and not in good health; four years might be a life sentence for him.
posted by bink at 12:23 PM on April 2, 2023 [2 favorites]

(Cy Vance on Jen Psaki's show (video))
posted by box at 12:35 PM on April 2, 2023

Thank you, I have been grumbling going through the Inside website and MSNBC this a.m. trying to get that going.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:47 PM on April 2, 2023 [1 favorite]

> I think he deserves prison, but not for this bullshit

> the most jail time Trump could get was 4 years and most likely he'll just get none

Some reports have suggested that the DA's office has 30 or more counts lined up for Trump. This is definitely not verified yet. But assuming something like this pans out, these charges may be quite a lot more serious than people are imagining.

(Though I agree with those above who have maintained that even the "simple" act of committing fraud to cover up campaign contributions, which were themselves made with the aim of covering up odious facts about the candidate, are actually serious enough in themselves.)

By way of comparison, Michael Cohen was charged with 8 counts, pled guilty to 8 counts, and was sentenced the 3 years.

It is hard to make a judgement only on the (rumored) number of charges brought, but 30+ counts surely sounds more serious, and more extensive, than the Stormy Daniels affair alone.

> any deductions in the polls that Trump 2024 receives for the trial will be offset by the boost from the relentless media attention

This - and other forthcoming charges - surely complicate the Republican primary. As we're seeing already, it just makes it difficult for his primary opponents to successfully attack him. Though one thing we haven't yet seen, is how the Republican big-money donors are going to react to this. If it successfully scares all of them away from Trump, that could have consequences.

But in the general election, we've already seen Trump lose the popular vote by 4.5%, which in modern presidential elections, is quite a lot.

Even if convictions don't dissuade the truly committed Republican voter, it's hard to see actual felony convictions related morally reprehensible acts not pealing off another 3-5% of voters. If nothing else, it gives Trump's opponent a large and definite attack surface.

It is likely that Trump convictions will, to a degree, motivate different factions of voters to either get out and vote or to stay home and not vote. This could affect the election in a few ways:

- Galvanizing Trump supporters to come out to the polls to support him. Everyone understands this factor, I think. Trump thrives on attention, and negative attention more than anything.

- Discouraging Trump supporters from supporting him, or sapping their motivation. I think people underestimate this. If Trump loses a string of high-profile felony cases between now and November 2024, that starts to tar him with as a loser and a criminal. His persona his strongly tied with being a "winner" and a big part of that is being to successfully wriggle out of tough spots like this over the years and decades. Once the teflon wears off, we'll see how it plays out.

- Regardless of those factors, I think we strongly underestimate the fire it is going to light under Democratic voters if their candidate (presumably Biden) is running against a literal convicted criminal.
posted by flug at 2:30 PM on April 2, 2023 [9 favorites]

I've seen reports that Trump and advisors want a mugshot. I think it's delusional to think that placing that front and center would be a big net gain. Yeah, his ardent supporters will be fired up about it; but it will surely hurt him badly with any support he had remaining beyond them. I don't think he could win another general election anyway, even with all the voter suppression, and this would just make his prospects worse.

Dwindling crowds show that even among the Trump faithful there's fatigue. The thing is, at this point those people like the idea of Trump more than the reality; they're all gung-ho on their great fascist project while Trump keeps whining about the 2020 election. Trump's not even engaging with the right-wing talking points these days, unless they concern him.

Personally, I think the fascist movement in the US has just been gaining momentum and is beyond Trump at this point. They don't have a replacement yet for their cult of personality, which is central to fascism, but they'll find or create someone. Obviously, Trump could continue to be swept along by this and the fascists may just continue to make use of him, but the problem all along has been that Trump tends to do what's good for him personally and often things that don't really advance their cause. In terms of the practice of politics while in power, Trump isn't competent.

I fucking hate Donald Trump and there's literally no fate too terrible for what I think he deserves, but for a while now I've felt that we're in a historic period of fascist upheaval that's way beyond Trump and doesn't need him the way they once did. Even though I think that Trump is no longer able to win a general election for President, my fear is that it won't matter.

I'm actually mildly optimistic about how much legal peril Trump is in from many directions. I just think that the crisis has moved beyond Trump himself. To be quite frank, I think that the fascist movement has found their scapegoats and they're aiming toward an equivalent to Kristallnacht. It's terrifying and I think for those of us who are antifascist, it's an all-hands-on-deck era we're now in.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 3:23 PM on April 2, 2023 [29 favorites]

To be quite frank, I think that the fascist movement has found their scapegoats and they're aiming toward an equivalent to Kristallnacht.

This is something that had not occurred to me but now that you've said it I already can envision exactly which businesses will be targeted.

This is indeed terrifying. I hope you saying this hasn't tempted the spirits.
posted by hippybear at 3:35 PM on April 2, 2023 [3 favorites]

The good news, such as it is, is that the last time the Fash tried targeting businesses owned by their chosen enemy/scapegoat it ended badly for them and there was an outpouring of support from the majority of people. Even the majority of Republicans.

I'm cautiously optimistic that if they DO start breaking windows at LGBT friendly businesses (or churches) it'll backfire on them. But the long run isn't going to do anything for the people who might be facing mobs.

If you're a cis het white dude like me I strongly suggest you sign up for your local DSA text alerts, or whatever other anti-Fash groups you have in your area and be ready to go put your privilege between the Fash and their would be victims.

And remember: the police will stand quietly by and watch while the Fash attacks you, then they'll arrest you for fighting back.
posted by sotonohito at 3:46 PM on April 2, 2023 [13 favorites]

I'm thinking that with 30 counts that we're going to learn there was a whole lot more catch and kill going on than Daniels and McDougal.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 4:42 PM on April 2, 2023 [2 favorites]

Of course I hope in this indictment there’s charges for all kinds of heinous stuff we don’t know about yet. But the CNN TV lawyers point out that Trump made 11 payments to Cohen to reimburse him for the Daniels’ hush payment. Each one of those payments counts as a separate count.

I hope I didn’t harsh anybody’s joy with that, but let’s not get our hopes up too much. He’s gonna go down for something, the sooner the better.
posted by marxchivist at 6:52 PM on April 2, 2023 [9 favorites]

Someone somewhere said "we need to stop saying "this is the first president to be indicted" and start saying "this is the president's first indictment"".

Or his first indication. You know....
posted by hippybear at 7:55 PM on April 2, 2023 [22 favorites]

I watched the Jen Psaki/Cy Vance MSNBC interview posted above and I did not make the connection that when Vance obligingly backed off the hush money investigation as one does after being asked nicely by the SDNY [sic] that it was actually directed by Bill Barr. I’d forgotten that. He made it sound like it was going to interfere with some SDNY investigation when it was actually obstruction. I wish Psaki had pushed him further on that.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 5:06 AM on April 3, 2023 [4 favorites]

I will chortle even harder if Trump’s mug shot, if one is released, confirms that he’s been lying about his height for years.
posted by carmicha at 6:27 AM on April 3, 2023 [9 favorites]

I'm not an expert on Law of the Sea

Take to the sea!
posted by Servo5678 at 6:31 AM on April 3, 2023

“His Lawyers Expect a Gag Order Against Trump”—Countdown with Keith Olbermann, 03 April 2023
posted by ob1quixote at 6:45 AM on April 3, 2023 [1 favorite]

I'm not hand-wringing much over all this, very likely this is the staggering start of Trump's ugly denouement. He will go down screaming, but he's going down. Along with the Dominion lawsuit, big chunks of the MAGA movement's primary propaganda sources are breaking down and being successfully held accountable.

Agree that what follows is very unpredictable, and is what's really worrisome at this point: what/who will rush in to fill that void?

surely complicate the Republican primary

This election has more nodes than two: No Labels group raises alarms with third-party presidential preparations.
posted by LooseFilter at 7:09 AM on April 3, 2023 [2 favorites]

I've seen reports that Trump and advisors want a mugshot.

I'm amused by the thought of Trump spending the weekend practicing mugshots.
posted by mazola at 8:30 AM on April 3, 2023 [3 favorites]

I've seen reports that Trump and advisors want a mugshot.

Well, yeah - that'll be a great fundraising tool.

Also, famous people's mug shots often get turned into posters - David Bowie was arrested after a concert in Rochester for marijuana possession, Kurt Cobain was arrested for trespassing, Johnny Cash has a mug shot, Frank Sinatra has a mug shot, Jimi Hendrix has a mug shot, Hugh Grant has a mug shot, the list goes on.

So I bet that Trump is already imagining conservative college students making posters out of his mug shot and hanging them on their dorm room walls. He's forgotten, however, that a mug shot can make you either look suave like Sinatra, or a hot mess like Nick Nolte.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:41 AM on April 3, 2023 [8 favorites]

I got $10 that says Trump has already taken (and had heavily photoshopped) a mug shot, and they'll release it at the same time as the official one, and claim that the official one is the one that got photoshopped to make him look bad.
posted by Etrigan at 8:57 AM on April 3, 2023 [15 favorites]

Fox's Will Cain said Trump’s mugshot would become a new equivalent of Che Guevara T-shirts, to which co-host Pete Hegseth and Cain agreed that Trump’s mugshot “would be a symbol of what it means to fight the system.”
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 10:25 AM on April 3, 2023

God I hate these assholes and their bad-faith bullshit so, so much.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:04 AM on April 3, 2023 [15 favorites]

I'm starting to worry about my apparently endless capacity for hatred.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:22 AM on April 3, 2023 [5 favorites]

There are people who deserve the hatred. Don't feel bad. Some people are just horribly shitty and deserve it, despite your beliefs about the inherent goodness of people...
posted by Windopaene at 11:39 AM on April 3, 2023 [2 favorites]

Mod note: Another comment deleted. Please check the Name Calling section of the Content Policy
posted by loup (staff) at 11:42 AM on April 3, 2023 [1 favorite]

Oh, I would go full Warhol on a Trump mugshot. Ché Marilyn, and then some.
posted by Artful Codger at 12:04 PM on April 3, 2023 [1 favorite]

I want it to be like the Saddam Hussein photo. Mussed-up hair, defeated mien, and a weird stretched-out t-shirt.
posted by bink at 12:07 PM on April 3, 2023 [4 favorites]

Grumpy Trumpy Felon from Jamaica in Queens! - A Randy Rainbow Song Parody
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:26 PM on April 3, 2023 [5 favorites]

The only way Trump is a "symbol of what it means to fight the system" is if you define "the system" as "anything restricting guys like Trump from doing whatever they want, when they want, to who they want."
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:50 PM on April 3, 2023 [6 favorites]

I want it to be like the Saddam Hussein photo…

Or this guy
posted by TWinbrook8 at 1:53 PM on April 3, 2023 [2 favorites]

'live'
posted by mbo at 2:23 PM on April 3, 2023

I mean, to be fair, a mug shot of trump is the perfect symbol of what happens when you fight the system. You end up in court in a criminal trial.

I'm not sure what symbolism they're hoping he would be outside of that. He's not going to jail for his ideas. He's not a blogger that those in power want to shut up. He broke the law. Maybe should be capitalized: The Law. That's what he did.
posted by hippybear at 2:55 PM on April 3, 2023 [1 favorite]

Or this guy
D'oh! That's the one I meant.
posted by bink at 3:09 PM on April 3, 2023 [2 favorites]

The Card Cheat:

The only way Trump is a "symbol of what it means to fight the system" is if you define "the system" as "anything restricting guys like Trump from doing whatever they want, when they want, to who they want."

1. Eponysterical.

2. I think this is exactly how the modern conservative mind defines the system. Anything that holds them accountable is to be raged against, as if a machine.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:57 PM on April 3, 2023 [3 favorites]

Fox's Will Cain said Trump’s mugshot would become a new equivalent of Che Guevara T-shirts

Trump as Che.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:07 PM on April 3, 2023 [4 favorites]

Florida Man Returns to New York to Have His Mugshot Taken: Donald Trump wants a very public perp walk, and cable news has already covered the former president's boring ride to his apartment like it's the OJ car chase.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:41 PM on April 3, 2023 [3 favorites]

Inside Trump’s Demands for a High-Profile Surrender: ‘It’s Kind of a Jesus Christ Thing’

...the former president was offered a chance to surrender quietly and be arraigned over Zoom. Instead, Trump opted for a midday, high-profile booking at the Manhattan courthouse, the official says.

“He wanted a perp walk; he wanted daylight hours,” says the law enforcement official, who’s involved in aspects of the security planning. “He wants to get out of the vehicle and walk up the stairs. This is a nightmare for Secret Service, but they can only strongly suggest — not order — that Trump enter through the secure tunnels. Trump wants to greet the crowd. This should be a surprise to no one — especially not his detail.”
...
“It’s kind of a Jesus Christ thing. He is saying ‘I’m absorbing all this pain from all around from everywhere so you don’t have to,’” says the source

He's gonna walk up the stairs? Despite being afraid of stairs and never walking up the stairs to the second floor of the West Wing. Maybe he can walk up and down the stairs like a big boy.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:45 PM on April 3, 2023 [6 favorites]

On the other hand:

Trump’s lawyers argue against cameras in courtroom: Would create ‘circus-like atmosphere’

NY is a no court cameras during trial state but news outlets want cameras rolling during the arraignment which is at the judge's discretion.
posted by Mitheral at 4:53 PM on April 3, 2023 [2 favorites]

code for
PEE PEE TAPE
posted by chococat at 8:45 PM on March 30 [22 favorites +] [!]


*jerks awake, mid-snore!

huh...wha??
posted by pee tape at 5:27 PM on April 3, 2023 [24 favorites]

Jim Jordan (R) U.S. representative for Ohio's 4th congressional district vows to defund police (not The Onion):

"We control the power of the purse, and we're going to have to look at the appropriation process and limit funds going to some of these agencies, particularly the ones who are engaged in the most egregious behavior,"

Jordan joins Georgia Republican Marjorie Taylor Greene, and Florida Republican Matt Gaetz who have also called for defunding the police.

Defunding calls are of course not to combat systematic abuse and -isms of law enforcement agencies but rather an attempt to extort the agencies involved in Trump's indictment.
posted by Mitheral at 6:15 PM on April 3, 2023 [4 favorites]

Fox's Will Cain said Trump’s mugshot would become a new equivalent of Che Guevara T-shirts

Taking this seriously: the famous Che image was created by one of my favorite artists, Jim Fitzpatrick (also well known for his Irish goddesses & mythology prints and for his work for Thin Lizzy). When you look at something like that or the Shepherd Fairey Obama "Hope" art, the artist the political figure gets to immortalize them is also a big factor. So I think we're looking here at an iconic mugshot t-shirt from Jon McNaughton. (previously and slightly less previously).

So, really, bring it on.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 6:15 PM on April 3, 2023 [7 favorites]

‘It’s Kind of a Jesus Christ Thing’

This atheist is praying for a similar outcome.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:22 PM on April 3, 2023 [5 favorites]

Inside Trump’s Demands for a High-Profile Surrender: ‘It’s Kind of a Jesus Christ Thing’

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Behold, I have told you before.

Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:23-27

posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:50 AM on April 4, 2023 [2 favorites]

Mod note: Couple comments removed. Please keep the Content Policy in mind when posting, particularly the part about "... don't cross the line into any threats of violence or wishing violence on other people".
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 5:06 AM on April 4, 2023 [1 favorite]

You can bet that fecalalic scheisschtupper plans to stumble on the stairs and then spin it as how it's one more Unfair thing the left did to trip him up, taking advantage of an old man, nevermind that he demanded the stairs.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:07 AM on April 4, 2023

mazola: I'm amused by the thought of Trump spending the weekend practicing mugshots.

You know who else practiced facial expressions designed for inciting violence
posted by tzikeh at 5:13 AM on April 4, 2023 [2 favorites]

Photo of Hitler, photo of John Whorfin, picture of Jenna Fischer saying "They're the same picture."
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:47 AM on April 4, 2023 [1 favorite]

One highlight of Jedeed's Twitter thread: "[George] Santos did give a statement but I have no idea what it was and don't care"
posted by May Kasahara at 7:15 AM on April 4, 2023 [3 favorites]

Trump Supporters in Manhattan Were Outnumbered by Reporters
posted by kirkaracha at 7:25 AM on April 4, 2023 [4 favorites]

Trump Supporters in Manhattan Were Outnumbered by Reporters

Hunter S Thompson has a famous quote from Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas:

We had all the momentum; we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave... So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high water mark — that place where the wave finally broke, and rolled back.

That quote expresses his disillusionment over the spirit of 1960s activism collapsing in the face of backlash from the conservative power structure. But I wonder if in its way the failed January 6 insurrection was the high tide moment of American fascism, which is now in retreat.

Trump isn't going to get a mass protest when he is indicted for his obvious crimes. And while the Republican base loves him, there are more of us then there are of them, and Trump has demonstrated time and again that he's an electoral loser -- so much so that I dare hope his candidacy will repeat the millstone effect he had on the 2022 midterms and leave the Democrats in a better position than they otherwise might be.

It's going to be a struggle, and people of good will must remain vigilant to prevent the fascists from gaining more power, but the Republicans aren't embracing fascism from a position of strength, but a position of weakness. American culture -- political and, one hopes, economic -- is changing, and the conservatives are incapable of standing athwart history yelling "stop," no matter how many First Amendment -violating laws they try to pass.
posted by Gelatin at 8:07 AM on April 4, 2023 [22 favorites]

Every accusation is a confession.
posted by Gelatin at 8:27 AM on April 4, 2023 [8 favorites]

".....you send your henchmen down here to commit assault against people by making loud noises."

True story: a friend of mine was in the crowd protesting at the groundbreaking for the Barclays Center complex in Brooklyn. The crowd was all standing outside the tent where everyone was making speeches and getting ready to do the ceremonial shoveling, and at one point they sent a cop out there to tell everyone to stop making noise. My friend had an Irish handheld drum and he gave one last "fuck you" bang in response, and the cop grabbed him and cuffed him to make an example of him. He was officially charged with "using a drum to make noise."

However, since that is a profoundly bullshit charge, the protest group's legal aid was able to file a suit for wrongful arrest and he got a settlement in response. He was let out of holding that same day, after hanging out with a bunch of other guys who'd been arrested for things like jaywalking and public drunkenness and petty shoplifting, and he then spent the rest of the night posting "Alice's Restaurant" jokes on Facebook.

Would love to have his thoughts on this matter. (In fact, lemme message him, he lives in Colorado now....)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:27 AM on April 4, 2023 [6 favorites]

> MTG: "Mayor Adams...you send your henchmen down here to commit assault against people by making loud noises."

Marjorie Taylor Grievance, doing what she does best.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:42 AM on April 4, 2023 [1 favorite]

The details in @LauraJedeed's live tweeting are deliciously weird

Laura Jedeed
A woman in a MAGA cap burns sage and explains that she voted for Hillary in 2016 but that "the media made me vote for Trump" in 2020
She's moving from NYC when her lease is up. "This is Babylon"

...

The woman with the sage interrupts an interview
"You really don't want to talk to him. He edits"

He turns the camera towards her
"I didn't sign a waiver, bitch!

The press mobs. She blows sage at them. The original interviewee waves the smoke away with an expression of disgust

posted by spamandkimchi at 8:46 AM on April 4, 2023 [3 favorites]

Trump isn't going to get a mass protest when he is indicted for his obvious crimes.

You're right to warn against complacency but, yes, I agree, the small turnout of Trump supporters is a very good sign.
posted by Paul Slade at 9:02 AM on April 4, 2023 [3 favorites]

NYT: Here’s why Trump is not expected to have a mug shot taken: The former president is not likely to be photographed when he is booked on charges, officials say, because his image is commonly available and taking his mug shot would entail more movements for him, complicating security.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:16 AM on April 4, 2023 [1 favorite]

Laura Jedeed wrote an article for The New Republic. Worth a read, but if you only read one paragraph make it this one:

This is what happens when you tell your supporters to rally for you and then they get arrested en masse and then you leave office without pardoning them. All of Trump’s boldest soldiers are in jail, headed to jail, or terrified of going to jail. Much of the hard-core alt-right remembers and is vocally bitter about this, but everyone else has largely reached an undeclared yet firm position on the subject. We’ll support you, Mr President, but don’t expect us to show up for you anymore.

posted by box at 9:45 AM on April 4, 2023 [18 favorites]

That's where Trump's infinite greed was a little bit of salvation for us: he expected to get paid for pardons, not hand them out for free. I doubt Desantis would be as foolish, since he's out for power and money is secondary.
posted by tavella at 10:03 AM on April 4, 2023 [3 favorites]

The really funny thing is that I bet if Trump had made a big public show of contributing some piddly sum (say, $1000) to a legal fund for the January 6th rioters that would have been enough to "prove" how much he cares about them and all of these dudes who are grumpy about his lack of support would be lining up to declare they'd still die for him.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:07 AM on April 4, 2023 [3 favorites]

I have 2 different news apps on my phones and they both just went off with alerts about how Trump is right now in a motorcade heading down to the courthoues.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:13 AM on April 4, 2023 [1 favorite]

Yeah, the play-by-play of all of this is a bit grotesque.
posted by hippybear at 10:22 AM on April 4, 2023 [7 favorites]

Parker Molloy: "But hey, thanks to every news outlet on the planet alerting everyone to the exact whereabouts of his big dumb plane and sending 15 of your most overpaid reporters out to interview the dozen or so Trump supporters rallying in New York while running story after story after story about how this is a “solemn day for democracy” or whatever."

"What are we even doing here, people?"
posted by box at 10:24 AM on April 4, 2023 [7 favorites]

And he is under arrest.
posted by Pendragon at 10:25 AM on April 4, 2023 [22 favorites]

Probably I'm being ghoulish, yeah, but I've been waiting for someone to knock that guy off his high horse since the early 1990s.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:25 AM on April 4, 2023 [18 favorites]

imagine what the trial is going to be like
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:28 AM on April 4, 2023

Me too EmpressCallipygos. I grew up in Queens and I've hated him forever. How so many people couldn't see what a grifter he is is beyond me.
posted by ceejaytee at 10:30 AM on April 4, 2023 [20 favorites]

Watching CNN and WTF is this bullshit... "He looks sad" ? Fuck off.....
posted by Pendragon at 10:33 AM on April 4, 2023 [8 favorites]

Watching CNN and WTF is this bullshit... "He looks sad" ? Fuck off.....

That comment is only appropriate if delivered with the same energy Neil Patrick Harris used for his "It's afraid It's afraid" line in Starship Troopers.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 10:37 AM on April 4, 2023 [22 favorites]

If another reporter refers to Trump "visiting" the DA's office or the Court House today....seriously....come on media...do better
posted by inflatablekiwi at 11:03 AM on April 4, 2023 [4 favorites]

Maybe he brought coffee cake?

*shrug*
posted by mazola at 11:05 AM on April 4, 2023

Covfefe cake, surely.
posted by loquacious at 11:06 AM on April 4, 2023 [28 favorites]

Watching CNN and WTF is this bullshit... "He looks sad" ? Fuck off.....

My sole regret in abandoning journalism as a career is not being able to fire people who commit crimes against journalism like this one.

Apart from the editorializing, aside from the baffling and wrongheaded perspective, someone looking sad while being arraigned for a crime is not news.
posted by Gelatin at 11:15 AM on April 4, 2023 [16 favorites]

Probably I'm being ghoulish, yeah, but I've been waiting for someone to knock that guy off his high horse since the early 1990s.

The 8-year-old in me is letting out a primal yawp and screaming THIS IS WHAT YOU GET FOR ENDING BLOOM COUNTY, MOTHERFUCKER
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 11:17 AM on April 4, 2023 [8 favorites]

Every indictment will make Trump stronger – and Republicans wilder - Sidney Blumenthal

Between the motion of Trump’s first indictment and the act of the last Republican primary, more than a year from now, on 4 June 2024, the shadow will fall on the only party with an actual nomination contest. Trump’s pandemonium will only have an electoral valence for the foreseeable future in its precincts. His damage to the constitution, the national security of the United States and the rule of law will be extensive, but his most intense and focused political destruction will be circumscribed within the Republican party.

posted by rongorongo at 11:26 AM on April 4, 2023

As for the complete lack of Trump supporters rioting... that's pretty unsurprising, and that whole "maybe January 6th was the crest of the wave" theory was how January 6th felt like at the time to me—albeit with enough uncertainty to cause serious anxiety.

Trump's supporters don't believe in this shit. They "believe" in it, in air quotes. They "believe" it as an excuse to hoard power to themselves, as an excuse to inflict sadism and cruelty upon the "losing side," and as part of a fandom that was briefly beating other fandoms. They "believed" it because Trump publicly humiliated a bunch of Republican candidates, and then they "believed" it because he beat Hillary Clinton on the slightest technicality, and then they "believed" it because it meant they got to feast on sweet sweet liberal tears. They "believe" it the way I have a Gen Z friend who "believes" that Slenderman is real.

In other words, they believe it up to the extent that they need to believe it in order to invest themselves in the narrative they're subscribed to. And on some level, they are aware that they don't believe it beyond that point, which simply means they don't let themselves investigate their faith beyond it. Yes, there are exceptions, but by and large, the "true believers" are either serious dorks without a smidgen of charisma, or they're deeply disturbed people looking for an outlet—and while both categories of people can do tremendous amounts of damage, the bulk of alt-right enthusiasm was generated simply because they were on the winning team. Trump promised them winning, and they got winning. It didn't run much deeper than that.

Most of the so-called true believers are openly grifting their audience. Hell, Trump was grifting. But the appeal of Trump was that he promised his audience that they'd get to be in on the grift. That lasted through the 2020 election, it had a last gasp on January 6th, and there's the full-fanfic version that the QAnon people invented for themselves... but that increasingly moves away from genuine action towards self-conscious kayfabe, especially as years tick by and Hollywood actors keep not getting arrested. The "belief" is still there, but it's in more air quotes than ever. And shitty people in power still use that "belief" to justify their abuse, but they're not doing a great job of fooling pluralities of voters.

There were some serious scary actors on January 6th, but even there, the bulk of the people involved were doing tourism. They wanted to be part of something, however bullshit and futile. And then, surprise! Consequences happened. And that puts a damper, not just on the tourists, but on the serious actors too—because the serious actors could believe that they had a genuine mass of people waiting to join in their revolution, and now it's conspicuously clear that they've got a few isolated hardcore cells and not much else.

The alt-right is evolving, its current dip into transphobia is terrifying, and it sucks ass that so many states are controlled by sadistic monsters. Trump was the worst symptom of a deep, underlying disease that we're far from eradicating. But Trump himself has got limited purchase. Republicans are only backing him because DeSantis is an utter black hole of charisma by comparison. But the fire's gone, and this will only make it worse. They still "believe" in him. But "belief" only goes so far.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 11:37 AM on April 4, 2023 [27 favorites]

The 8-year-old in me is letting out a primal yawp and screaming THIS IS WHAT YOU GET FOR ENDING BLOOM COUNTY, MOTHERFUCKER

?????
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:39 AM on April 4, 2023 [2 favorites]

my fav video today, so far
posted by tiny frying pan at 11:40 AM on April 4, 2023 [2 favorites]

(The original run of Bloom County ended in 1989 with the character of Donald Trump firing all the other characters.)
posted by mbrubeck at 11:44 AM on April 4, 2023 [16 favorites]

I will chortle even harder if Trump’s mug shot, if one is released, confirms that he’s been lying about his height for years.

But will we finally find out how long his fingers really are when they take his prints?
posted by nickmark at 11:46 AM on April 4, 2023 [1 favorite]

To me he looked like he was on his way back from the principal's office.

It's some tasty, tasty schadenfreude.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:53 AM on April 4, 2023 [5 favorites]

I can't predict the future, but I think Trump's longest-lasting legacy to the United States of America will be how he finally pried the lid off the Republican jar of expired pickles (many others had loosened it for him, to be sure) where they kept their ids. Whether or not the contents of the jar go on to spoil the rest of the stuff in the fridge remains to be seen.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:54 AM on April 4, 2023 [4 favorites]

The arrest of a former president is extremely newsworthy and acting like it isn’t is weird.
posted by BeginAgain at 11:59 AM on April 4, 2023 [4 favorites]

BeginAgain: The arrest of a former president is extremely newsworthy and acting like it isn’t is weird.

I don't think anyone is saying it isn't newsworthy. I think people are saying that the way the news agencies are reporting the story is terrible and not at all what journalism should be.
posted by tzikeh at 12:15 PM on April 4, 2023 [31 favorites]

tiny frying pan: My fav video today, so far

Why?
posted by tzikeh at 12:19 PM on April 4, 2023 [5 favorites]

I got $10 that says Trump has already taken (and had heavily photoshopped) a mug shot, and they'll release it at the same time as the official one, and claim that the official one is the one that got photoshopped to make him look bad.

I won't link to it, but they're already fundraising with a fake mug shot, and it labels his height as 6'5". Just so desperately sad.
posted by Etrigan at 12:20 PM on April 4, 2023 [14 favorites]

The arrest of a former president is extremely newsworthy and acting like it isn’t is weird.

True, but as with everything Trump touches it is also poisonous and farcical. And a stark reminder of the corruption that let Trump get away with lots and lots of minor crimes for decades.

I honestly don't know what to think about today's circus. I hope it will end well, preferably with Trump in jail. What happens when a cult leader is exposed?
posted by mumimor at 12:23 PM on April 4, 2023 [2 favorites]

NBC is saying the charges include conspiracy.
posted by Dashy at 12:23 PM on April 4, 2023 [3 favorites]

Why? Cause I thought it was funny how she fell down on a Trump lies sign. Your mileage may vary, like all things on the intrawebs.
posted by tiny frying pan at 12:26 PM on April 4, 2023

NBC is saying the charges include conspiracy.

I've been wondering if the prosecutors flipped Weisselberg, and this development makes me suspect they did.
posted by Gelatin at 12:26 PM on April 4, 2023 [8 favorites]

One thing about the decades-long bipartisan consensus around deregulation and business as the chief concern of our society is that it makes "34 counts of falsifying business records" sound intuitively really insignificant. Just some paperwork that got flubbed; equivalent to the minor moving violations you and I engage in all the time en route to work.

Not a comment on the broader case, just a reflection on seeing a headline.
posted by kensington314 at 12:27 PM on April 4, 2023 [1 favorite]

mumimor: What happens when a cult leader is exposed?

Probably something like what When Prophecy Fails details.
posted by tzikeh at 12:31 PM on April 4, 2023 [6 favorites]

Text of the indictment here.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:42 PM on April 4, 2023 [14 favorites]

"$30,000 to a former Trump Tower doorman, who claimed to have a story about a child TRUMP had out of wedlock."

in addition to the MacDougal and Daniels payments.
posted by Dashy at 12:51 PM on April 4, 2023 [2 favorites]

Statement of Facts
posted by inpHilltr8r at 12:55 PM on April 4, 2023 [8 favorites]

There’s no conspiracy charge.
posted by Ahmad Khani at 12:57 PM on April 4, 2023 [3 favorites]

Man, the mainstream media drives me crazy. On ABC one of the special commentators was making a big deal about why the indictment happened now. One of the questions during the conference was about the fact that federal prosecutors had not decided to pursue the case, yada yada. And I loved how Bragg was all, New York is the financial capital of the world. False business statements is the bread and butter of the kind of cases that his office handles. And he also talked about the law involving elections in New York State. Many reporters are implying these are weak charges! And he’s like, this is about business and finance and facts matter. Honestly, I think it is ridiculous to try to make the DA defend the timing of this indictment. Does the media need to echo assholes like Ted Cruz? I think not.
posted by Bella Donna at 1:34 PM on April 4, 2023 [21 favorites]

From journalist Marcy Wheeler:
Alvin Bragg just explained the case. The argument is that in 2015 and 2016, Michael Cohen, David Pecker, Trump, and others agreed to conduct the catch-and-kill program to help Trump win. That violated three crimes, per Bragg:

New York State laws prohibiting the promotion of a candidate by false means
Federal campaign finance laws
Document falsification by American Media Inc (National Enquirer)
He alleges each invoice and check were an attempt to cover up those 2016 crimes.

Bragg did say that the indictment does not need to specify what the other crimes the document falsification was intended to hide. He also noted–as NYU’s Ryan Goodman has laid out–that it is the “bread and butter” of the white collar charges NY DA charges.

Bragg claimed that his office had received additional evidence and access to additional witnesses after he took over.
posted by Bella Donna at 1:42 PM on April 4, 2023 [9 favorites]

Oh man I think I have Covid I’m not kidding. I’m gonna try really hard to go to bed. I just want to note that Ted Cruz, Mitt Romney, and others are claiming that this is a political indictment and that nothing will ever be the same because New York State is prosecuting a lying liar who crimed. This is the line that must not be crossed.

Not locking up immigrant children. Not tearing children away from their families and putting them up for adoption. Not downplaying Covid. Not transphobia or Islamaphobia. Certainly not legalizing forced pregnancies. Nope, prosecuting Trump is the world shattering event that we will all theoretically regret forever and from which there will be no return.

It is almost as though the Republicans commenting on this topic have not been paying attention to the ways in which they have already weaponized everything within reach. Once again, Republicans are claiming that their shit does not stink. That has never been true, and it’s absolutely not true today. Fuck that guy, fuck that party, fuck the media pros who feel obligated to serve ratings and engagement rather than reality-based reporting. Hugs to all. Good night.
posted by Bella Donna at 1:54 PM on April 4, 2023 [24 favorites]

I'm a bit surprised at Romney.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:05 PM on April 4, 2023 [1 favorite]

Romney's intermittent spinefulness is really weird. Giving that he has been marinading in high-level politics his entire life, my best guess would be that it's an ingrained strategy/habit of building power through unpredictability.
posted by Not A Thing at 2:10 PM on April 4, 2023 [1 favorite]

The former president has been charged with 34 felonies for his role in falsifying business records in order to conceal an illegal conspiracy to undermine an election. He pleaded not guilty. (NPR)
Trump's campaign claims there's been $7 million in donations since the announcement last week.
posted by Iris Gambol at 2:20 PM on April 4, 2023 [4 favorites]

Trump's campaign claims there's been $7 million in donations since the announcement last week.

I'm not very impressed by that number. Going by the crazification factor theory, there should be more than 90 million political morons in the US, though probably only half of those vote, either because they are not eligible to vote or because they don't bother. This still means 45 million people still support Trump. I believe this guess is validated by more conventional analytical methods. But the trumpists are obviously not willing to put their money where their mouths are, let alone step up and protest in Manhattan.
posted by mumimor at 2:36 PM on April 4, 2023 [2 favorites]

The eyebrows are guilty as hell.

That is the first image of the guy that I would consider wearing on a T-shirt. Jane Rosenberg seems to be quite good at what she does.
posted by Not A Thing at 2:49 PM on April 4, 2023 [2 favorites]

Omg they fingerprinted him. Love it. I wonder who fought for that privilege. Imagining them telling him repeatedly to relax his hand. "I'M SO RELAXED."
posted by tiny frying pan at 3:21 PM on April 4, 2023 [3 favorites]

"TRUMP FINGERPRINTS 'LEAKED' FROM NYPD"
posted by mbo at 3:27 PM on April 4, 2023 [9 favorites]

mumimor, please don't be impressed in the slightest -- record-keeping isn't their strong suit
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:30 PM on April 4, 2023 [1 favorite]

"TRUMP FINGERPRINTS 'LEAKED' FROM NYPD"

I forget who it was from late night last night, but someone made a joke to the effect of "And then he'll have his fingerprints taken and a DNA swab, and then we'll have a brief pause while we see how many cold cases get solved".
posted by hippybear at 3:34 PM on April 4, 2023 [22 favorites]

The eyebrows are guilty as hell.

Looks like Mother from The Wall.
posted by hippybear at 3:35 PM on April 4, 2023 [6 favorites]

this is literally the news today
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:41 PM on April 4, 2023 [10 favorites]

MTG apparently showed up. And then left immediately after getting widely heckled.

"Blast her with the fuckin' space lasers" [Twitter link]

Man, I have to get back to NYC one of these days.

Bless.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:43 PM on April 4, 2023 [11 favorites]

It's not that they're stupid, it's that they never believe they'd ever get caught and be held accountable for their accounting hijinks.

From the Statement of Facts:

The checks and stubs bearing the false statements were stapled to the invoices also bearing false statements. The Defendant signed each of the checks personally

(this is where I broke down into laughter)
posted by mikelieman at 4:21 PM on April 4, 2023 [20 favorites]

From CNN:

Trump’s remarks came on call organized by faith leaders and supporters, during which he briefly spoke out against the investigation by the Manhattan district attorney.

“As you know we’re going through a fake investigation. That’s what it is. By radical left people that I believe actually have to hate our country. And we’re winning – we had a great day today, actually, because it turned out to be a sham,” Trump said.

He continued, “and it’s turning out to be that. And we have others down the line. But we’ve been winning them for eight years now, ever since we came down the golden escalator, as they call it, at Trump Tower.”

Pfffftttttt
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:22 PM on April 4, 2023 [1 favorite]

I think the DNA swabbing only happens if he is convicted.
posted by Mitheral at 4:23 PM on April 4, 2023

thumbhead
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 4:29 PM on April 4, 2023

Only 6 weeks ago: Judge rejects Trump offer to provide DNA sample in E. Jean Carroll rape defamation case
posted by Iris Gambol at 4:36 PM on April 4, 2023 [1 favorite]

It was a joke, but details on when DNA swabs are taken are always interesting.
posted by hippybear at 4:38 PM on April 4, 2023

TRAMP INDICATED
posted by kirkaracha at 4:58 PM on April 4, 2023 [5 favorites]

Man, I have to get back to NYC one of these days.

Honestly, hearing how MTG was only able to hold out 5 minutes against the protesters is making me massively proud to be a New Yorker.

Git the fuck outta here indeed, Marge.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:01 PM on April 4, 2023 [14 favorites]

Donald Trump, the Playboy Model Karen McDougal, and a System for Concealing Infidelity by Ronan Farrow, February 16, 2018

The interactions that McDougal outlines in the document share striking similarities with the stories of other women who claim to have had sexual relationships with Trump, or who have accused him of propositioning them for sex or sexually harassing them. McDougal describes their affair as entirely consensual. But her account provides a detailed look at how Trump and his allies used clandestine hotel-room meetings, payoffs, and complex legal agreements to keep affairs—sometimes multiple affairs he carried out simultaneously—out of the press.

posted by kirkaracha at 5:17 PM on April 4, 2023 [3 favorites]

This will do instead of an official mug shot.
posted by theora55 at 7:16 PM on April 4, 2023 [1 favorite]

NYT Opinion claiming the case is not very unusual, and appears strong. I found it educational.
posted by soylent00FF00 at 7:20 PM on April 4, 2023 [3 favorites]

@kaitlancollins: After the judge today issued a request, "to counsel on both sides," about refraining from comments that "jeopardize the safety or well-being of any individuals," Trump tells the Mar-a-Lago crowd he has a "Trump-hating judge with a Trump-hating wife" in New York case.

what the what
posted by mazola at 7:44 PM on April 4, 2023 [8 favorites]

Well it worked for Alex Jones' grift during the Sandy Hook lawsuits, so I'm sure that's the strategy Trump is following.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:49 PM on April 4, 2023 [4 favorites]

I'm a bit surprised at Romney.

Eh, Romney is a Mormon whose right-wing opinions shift with the political winds, much like the same winds buffeting his dog atop his moving vehicle. He's showing about as much moral backbone as when he went begging for a job in Trump's famiglia back in 2016. To give any remaining doubters an idea of how little self-respect he has, he even opposed a policy that was once named after him.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 7:51 PM on April 4, 2023 [20 favorites]

Eponysterical?
posted by susiswimmer at 10:41 PM on April 4, 2023 [2 favorites]

Trump's online store already has a fake mugshot T-shirt on sale. Even the height it claims for him is a lie.
posted by Paul Slade at 12:01 AM on April 5, 2023

Today is a bright and clear morning here, and I just realized that the best thing about this is the normalcy.
I woke up thinking that it was absurd that Trump pleaded not guilty, given that there are checks with his stupid sharpie-signature on them and Cohen has been convicted and spent time in jail for that exact crime, which he would never have committed unless Trump had instructed him to do so.

Hear me out. I know he is Trump, and that he cannot not lie, but since 2016 there has been an assumption that he could get away with it. That we were forced to accept the circus as a given.

But the way Alvin Bragg spoke at the press conference was so cool, literally, just calmly stating how this indictment is normal. This is what happens when you commit fraud. There is nothing special about Trump, he is just a normal New York white collar criminal (unsaid: as New Yorkers have known all along).
What is unprecedented is not that a grand jury indicts a brazen criminal, but that the country elected a brazen criminal.

Now all those pundits on both sides who have spent weeks making more and more elaborate arguments as for why Trump should be above the law have something very specific to explain: do you really think a fraudster like Trump should be let off? Why? And this is just the first trial. During the next year, we will see so many pictures of Trump entering courtrooms as the defendant that they will become a routine. Nothing to discuss or worry about.

BTW, the media have learnt absolutely nothing from their big fail in 2016. I guess it is the logical consequence of a business model where your income depends on the amount of outrage you can generate (and this applies to the MSM as well as for Fox). Just skimming the reactions, as usual we need the comedians to point out the obvious. The over-payed pundits are still all "concerned" and "worried" about "democracy", a word that seems to have a different meaning to them than to me. If the rule of law doesn't apply to some criminals, is it then a democracy? You have to keep the trundle going, don't you?

Also: is there an element of racism in the wide-spread assumption that Alvin Bragg would present a weak case? I mean, it is absurd on the face of it: if anyone were preparing a historic indictment, wouldn't they work as hard as humanly possible to make it stick?
posted by mumimor at 12:19 AM on April 5, 2023 [20 favorites]

is there an element of racism in the wide-spread assumption that Alvin Bragg would present a weak case?

There's an element of everything, they even called him fat. Nobody knew anything of the actual charges until today though, so it was all for naught. Trumpers seem pretty quiet now that the charges are out.
posted by rhizome at 12:25 AM on April 5, 2023

I wasn't thinking so much about the trumpists, of course they are racist. It's more the so-called liberals and moderates who have been just as eager to put down Alvin Bragg.
posted by mumimor at 1:52 AM on April 5, 2023 [3 favorites]

Really, when you add international crimes to the standards, most of our Presidents are criminals.

Chris Hedges has this to say.
Yet, the most egregious of Trump’s actions while in office either received minimal media coverage, were downplayed or lauded as acts carried out in defense of democracy and the U.S.-led international order.

Why hasn’t Trump been criminally investigated for the act of war he committed against Iran and Iraq when he assassinated Iranian Major General Qassem Soleimani and nine other people with a drone strike in Baghdad airport?

the small turnout of Trump supporters is a very good sign.

While my area had plenty of Trump flags during the election(s) and a number of them stayed up as they slowly fap'd themselves into rags between the wind and the sun there were only a few that were replaced and those came down after the coverage of the J6 events by Congress. So far not a new Trump '24 flag in the area.

Indie media/social media allows the supporters to be loud and that leads people to think the supporters are more numerous.

What is unprecedented is not that a grand jury indicts a brazen criminal, but that the country elected a brazen criminal.

The political system is a 2 party elect this bozo or that bozo system.

The Republicans had a field of suck along with Trump actually calling out the stupid shit of the Republicans. The Democrat party leadership put their thumb on the scale to get leaderships candidate on the ballot.

Fixing voting would help here.
posted by rough ashlar at 2:35 AM on April 5, 2023 [2 favorites]

rough ashlar: sorry, but you can't say "chatter on social media isn't a reliable indicator of the level of support for Trump in 2024", and then turn around and present "I feel like I'm seeing fewer Trump flags in my area" as the more reliable indicator. That's the very definition of anecdotal evidence.

Actual data about this topic – that is, polls – is coming out every day. Polls aren't perfect, of course – but they're infinitely better than a vibe check.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 3:34 AM on April 5, 2023 [5 favorites]

"I feel like I'm seeing fewer Trump flags in my area" as the more reliable indicator.

"Feel" is doing WAY too much heavy lifting when one can observe the actual flagpoles, trees and even the framed on north side of a building Trump flag that was ripped down 2 months ago. The only party refreshing their pro-trump public displays is a hand painted 'Trump won' 1/2 sheet of plywood and that's a reduction from the painted rocks spelling a pro-Trump message along with pro-trump signs every 2 feet in that yard put up after the Nov. election. But by all means, frame observed displays as "feels".

Far better than pulling a 45 million number from wherever.

And doesn't change that ya'll in the situation where the effective 2 party system means the choices result in people like Trump being 1 of the 2 effective vote choices. It's great you have cited a poll as that poll shows why the system as implemented is broken. Unless old men in their dotage represents who should be the leader.
posted by rough ashlar at 4:07 AM on April 5, 2023 [1 favorite]

the small turnout of Trump supporters is a very good sign.

Then again, this was in New York City - a major city (and thus skews blue) within a very blue state. I'm instead cheered by the huge number of counter-protesters - a lot of people might not have been arsed to come out, but they did.

Trump's online store already has a fake mugshot T-shirt on sale.

It's okay, the candle store That Gay Guy Candle Co has nineteen of its own commemorative candles. (Note that the candle scents are not unique to each, it's more like, you pick the scent you want, and then you pick the pithy thing you want it to say on the side. I have one from a few months back that reads "Donald Trump fucked around and Tish James is helping him find out.")
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:10 AM on April 5, 2023 [4 favorites]

AOC on The Late Show
posted by mumimor at 4:29 AM on April 5, 2023 [5 favorites]

In an interview with Britain's Times newspaper on Friday, [Stormy] Daniels called the indictment "vindication" and referred to a vulgar comment Trump made in a 2005 recording in which he boasted about forcing himself on women.

"But it's bittersweet," she said. "He's done so much worse that he should have been taken down before. I am fully aware of the insanity of it being a porn star. But it's also poetic; this pussy grabbed back."

Protect Stormy Daniels at all costs.

US headlines today are about Ms. Daniels having to pay Trump’s legal fees, as if she is to blame, and judges have told us so, instead of focusing on the substance of the crimes Trump perpetrated.

The US Press remain Trump’s biggest enablers, as ever.
posted by edithkeeler at 4:50 AM on April 5, 2023 [11 favorites]

Then again, this was in New York City

True, but many of Trump's most passionate and willing-to-be-violent supporters travelled half way across the country to be in Washington for the Jan 6 attacks on the Capitol. If they still felt as committed to him today, surely a few more would have made the effort to get to NYC?
posted by Paul Slade at 5:16 AM on April 5, 2023 [4 favorites]

Trumpers seem pretty quiet now that the charges are out.

I am visiting my dad right now, and Fox News is banging the “weak case” drum and whatabouting Biden as loudly as they can, claiming Trump had a “great day” because of how weak this case is.

They are claiming that Bragg is doing a witch hunt and Biden is taking money from China, accusing him of “grift”.

I am looking forward to the Dominion case costing them bigly.
posted by Fleebnork at 5:23 AM on April 5, 2023 [5 favorites]

"Feel" is doing WAY too much heavy lifting when one can observe the actual flagpoles, trees and even the framed on north side of a building Trump flag that was ripped down 2 months ago.

Are you systematically counting them? (I assume not.)

Are you also systematically counting them in other parts of the US? (I assume not.)

Have you validated the assumption that "number of Trump signs/flags displayed" is a reliable proxy for "number of people who would vote for Trump"? (I assume not.)

Again, what you're describing is the very definition of anecdata. That's what I meant by "feel": informal observation is not the same thing as scientific observation. You cannot start from the number of Trump flags that you happen to notice in your area, and extrapolate a meaningful estimate of the nationwide support for Trump.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 5:29 AM on April 5, 2023 [4 favorites]

That Gay Guy Candle Co has nineteen of its own commemorative candles.

"This candle smells like my mushroom penis."
posted by Paul Slade at 5:34 AM on April 5, 2023

> Then again, this was in New York City

True, but many of Trump's most passionate and willing-to-be-violent supporters travelled half way across the country to be in Washington for the Jan 6 attacks on the Capitol. If they still felt as committed to him today, surely a few more would have made the effort to get to NYC?

The difference there is that Washington DC is the seat of "the government by the people and for the people", while NYC is "a sewer full of liberal elites where that wing-nut AOC came from".

Granted, Trump also came from here, but presumably they see him as the rare exception.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:31 AM on April 5, 2023 [1 favorite]

Also, they had two months of notice to gather on January 6th, with Trump and the FNCU explicitly inviting people to a specific rally over a course of weeks.
posted by Etrigan at 7:26 AM on April 5, 2023 [3 favorites]

This might be apocryphal, but people are circulating this image with claims that it is TIME magazine's current cover.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:06 AM on April 5, 2023 [4 favorites]

This might be apocryphal, but people are circulating this image with claims that it is TIME magazine's current cover.

Regardless, it's good art.
posted by mumimor at 8:23 AM on April 5, 2023 [3 favorites]

Possibly fake, definitely funny.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:28 AM on April 5, 2023

Also, they had two months of notice to gather on January 6th

There are other changes.

The ideas of propaganda (sorry - that was re-branded to Public Relations and now give advanced agrees in) of repetition and deception are not able to be done in the same way this time for Trump.

Leading up to Jan 6th media was willing to repeat over and over there was widespread election fraud. Media of all types is less willing to repeat Trump statements as "true" this time.

There is the hugbox of Trump Social. There is still Gab/Rumble. But these days media companies are more willing to not amplify Trump deception. There isn't a "pied piper" strategy at play like there was getting Donald J Trump to be one of the two effective choices for the non RCV election system.

Trump GOT to the place he was in because he was willing to make campaign contributions which had the effect of limiting criminal charges in the past. By being supported during his first run that effort helped getting him to the 1 of 2 vote choice.

Hopefully this entire mess will prompt investigation and changes like happened after the Church Commission.
posted by rough ashlar at 8:40 AM on April 5, 2023 [1 favorite]

And, like, J6 was funded. That's how those folks got to DC and stayed in primo hotels. You don't hear about Ginni Thomas' PAC doing much right now.
posted by frecklefaerie at 9:16 AM on April 5, 2023 [3 favorites]

The Arraignment of Donald J. Trump: A Detailed Summary: play-by-play from LawFare.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:42 AM on April 5, 2023 [4 favorites]

Can we have a pool for how long it will be until he gets held in contempt by tweeting documents?
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:50 AM on April 5, 2023 [5 favorites]

Can we have a pool for how long it will be until he gets held in contempt by tweeting documents?

Or complaints -- or outright threats -- about the judge, the prosecutor, and their families?
posted by Gelatin at 9:57 AM on April 5, 2023 [1 favorite]

If there's going to be a pool, it should be on the FIRST thing he gets held in contempt for. Tweeting documents is just one of a plethora of dipshit things he might/will get slapped for.
posted by VTX at 9:57 AM on April 5, 2023 [3 favorites]

He won't. He'll tweet documents, and post more pictures of baseball bats, and nothing will happen.

I had a tiny moment of "surely, this" before the events yesterday, but given the way the mainstream media is continuing with its both-sidesism, normalizing all of his atrocious behavior, nothing, nothing is going to change, ever, until he dies of a heart attack.
posted by Melismata at 9:58 AM on April 5, 2023 [5 favorites]

The US Press remain Trump’s biggest enablers, as ever.

As does its readers, listeners and viewers. I mean -- C'mon! -- the guy thrives on attention as plants do on sunshine. Our guilt is collective. We are all his captives -- it's a wonder he is not kaiju size by now after the last few decades.

Giant Zombie Trumpzilla Attacks!

Coming to your nearest IMAX or drive in soon. And never leaving... And never leaving... And never leaving... And never leaving... And never leaving... And never leaving...

Imagine the future as human race's collective face being sat up upon by an enormous planetoid-sized pasty pimply orange streaked butt forever and ever and ever... da capo
posted by y2karl at 10:01 AM on April 5, 2023

I had a tiny moment of "surely, this" before the events yesterday, but given the way the mainstream media is continuing with its both-sidesism, normalizing all of his atrocious behavior, nothing, nothing is going to change, ever, until he dies of a heart attack.

The mainstream media sucks, but that doesn't mean judges take threats to themselves or the officers of their court lightly, nor publicly disparaging the legal process. The media won't hold him accountable but the judge has the power and the motivation to.
posted by Gelatin at 10:04 AM on April 5, 2023 [15 favorites]

Junior, MTG, and Breitbart are putting out photos and personal info of the judge's daughter.

Stochastic terrorists.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:07 AM on April 5, 2023 [13 favorites]

given the way the mainstream media is continuing with its both-sidesism, normalizing all of his atrocious behavior, nothing, nothing is going to change, ever, until he dies of a heart attack.

This is believing hyperreality over empirical reality. Empirical reality is that Trump was actually arrested and charged with 34 felony crimes, no matter what any commentary about what happened may be. He actually had to physically go to that courtroom in NY, sit in front of a judge and be charged with felony after felony after felony. That was his Tuesday, and that's his reality; everything else is just bloviating.

To believe any version of the hyperreal that our media culture creates, especially above what is empirically real, is to let the beast win. (For myself, I immediately stop reading/watching/listening if any coverage or commentary turns to talking heads asking one another things like 'what do you think about this?' or 'what do you think is going to happen?' Even if experts are being asked, I'm likely to immediately shut it down. What actually happens takes enough attention and causes enough concern that also consuming media about what might happen, or could be happening, or may have happened but we don't really know, or what people think about what happened, is just too much for me anymore.)

(Even typing this comment made me anxious enough that I need to go do stuff outside to re-center what's real.)

(It's spring break here this week. Lots of gardening time, thankfully.)
posted by LooseFilter at 10:30 AM on April 5, 2023 [28 favorites]

That and the experts are no better at predicting the future than anyone else. Especially when they're on TV to say something that sounds smart and insightful.

That stuff doesn't make anxious, just annoyed and frustrated. You don't need to worry about what they say because whatever is, it's wrong.
posted by VTX at 10:36 AM on April 5, 2023 [2 favorites]

And, like, J6 was funded. That's how those folks got to DC and stayed in primo hotels. You don't hear about Ginni Thomas' PAC doing much right now.

On J6, the people doing the funding knew there was an actual chance the government would be overthrown and Trump made dictator. That made it worth funnelling money to the insurrectionists. While even if there had been a tragedy yesterday, it would not have resulted in the New York legal system dropping the case.
posted by Epixonti at 10:37 AM on April 5, 2023 [5 favorites]

This is believing hyperreality over empirical reality. Empirical reality is that Trump was actually arrested and charged with 34 felony crimes, no matter what any commentary about what happened may be. He actually had to physically go to that courtroom in NY, sit in front of a judge and be charged with felony after felony after felony.

And he had to sit there meek as a mouse and listen to it.

Sure, once he got back to Florida, he could open his yap. Big man. But in the hands of the law, he doesn't hold the power and he knows it.
posted by Gelatin at 10:40 AM on April 5, 2023 [12 favorites]

Well, not until his appeals escalate all the way to the US Supreme Court at any rate.
posted by flabdablet at 12:03 PM on April 5, 2023 [3 favorites]

You don't need to worry about what they say because whatever is, it's wrong.

Except that we do need to worry about it, because people are believing them and ready to vote him to be the next president.
posted by Melismata at 12:12 PM on April 5, 2023 [1 favorite]

The full transcript from Trump's arraignment from ABC news.

The only people to call him President Trump are his own lawyers.

CONROY: The defendant, Donald J. Trump,

People of the State of New York versus Donald J. Trump.

THE CLERK: Donald J. Trump, the grand jury of New York County has filed indictment 71543 of 2023 charging you with the crimes of 34 counts of falsifying business records

Not even a Mister Trump there. That's gotta sting

And here's the Parker warning;

if you become disruptive to such a degree that it affects my ability to preside over this case and my ability to insure that the case is treated the way it needs to be treated for both sides, I do have the authority to remove you from the courtroom and continue in your absence, do you understand that?

TRUMP: I do.

JUDGE MERCHAN: All right, if either one of those situations were to happen, and the case were to go to trial, we would go to trial without you.

If there were a verdict and that verdict were to be guilty, we would be able to take that verdict without you. And if there were to be a time for sentencing, we would be able to impose sentence without you. Do you understand?

TRUMP: Yes.
posted by yyz at 12:13 PM on April 5, 2023 [17 favorites]

TFG literally can't stop lying.
posted by flabdablet at 12:19 PM on April 5, 2023 [1 favorite]

Yep. Standard Parker warning, same as any old person in this position.
posted by tiny frying pan at 12:21 PM on April 5, 2023 [2 favorites]

And the penalty for each of the 34 counts can be up to four years in jail. I doubt he'll actually cop a 136 year sentence, but that's a scary amount of time.
posted by mrgoat at 12:44 PM on April 5, 2023

My understanding is that all ex-Presidents get to keep that form of address as a courtesy title until they die. Or have I got that wrong?

Once in a while in the past few years, you'd see some on-air opponent cheekily making a point of calling Trump "Donald' instead of the more servile "Mr Trump" he insisted his toadies use. I bet increasingly disrespectful diminutives of that name would get under his skin even more: "Donny", Don-boy", "Li'l Donny-Don-Don" etc.
posted by Paul Slade at 12:52 PM on April 5, 2023 [2 favorites]

We've entered a liminal space, free of precedent, so don't worry about the lack of 'President'.
posted by Jarcat at 1:07 PM on April 5, 2023 [6 favorites]

"Li'l Donny-Don-Don" etc.

Is that the one set to the tune of Come Softly to Me by the Fleetwoods?
posted by y2karl at 1:39 PM on April 5, 2023 [1 favorite]

The Broad Scope of “Intent to Defraud” in the New York Crime of Falsifying Business Records

As many greet the Manhattan District Attorney’s indictment of a former president as a step toward accountability and the equal application of the rule of law, that thesis will be tested by the strength of the case itself. It is accordingly proper, indeed necessary, to evaluate whether the criminal statute at issue is a close match for the alleged conduct in the case. In that regard, an important question is whether maintaining false business records to conceal hush money payments in a political campaign meets the “intent to defraud” element of the Falsifying Business Records statute, New York Penal Law § 175.05 and 175.10.

As we explain in this essay, the law is firmly on the side of the DA, and we do not think this question will give the DA’s office or Justice Juan Merchan much pause. Indeed, the jurisdiction in which this case will be brought – the First Department of New York – has settled law on the issue that defines “intent to defraud” in broad terms that cover the allegations in the Trump case. The most important expression of a contrary view was issued by a lower court in a different jurisdiction and on a basis that is demonstrably flawed.

posted by kirkaracha at 1:48 PM on April 5, 2023 [7 favorites]

And here's the Parker warning;

"Don’t do what Donny Don’t does. They could have made this clearer."
posted by kirkaracha at 1:59 PM on April 5, 2023 [2 favorites]

Although it's incredibly petty of me to gloat about this, Trump's arrest has inadvertently led to another of his lies being exposed. (Technically it was a lie by someone else, but without a shadow of a doubt it was 100% told because Trump insisted on it.)
posted by essexjan at 3:02 PM on April 5, 2023 [5 favorites]

My understanding is that all ex-Presidents get to keep that form of address as a courtesy title until they die.

It's a bit complicated.
Not very long ago there was only one person who could use the title. The elected one. Because there is only one President of the USA.

Even now if you vist the government site usa.gov for guidance you will see this ;

Format and Salutations

When sending letters to former presidents, the proper form for addressing the envelope is:
The Honorable (president's name)

The proper form for the salutation in the letter is:
Dear Mr. (president's last name)
---
So former Presidents would be introduced as the right honourable and then refered to as Mister

This was true until very recently when a few recent Presidents began to refer to the former President as President eg President Clinton, President Bush.
This is still not standard protocol.
It was a courtesy extended by a sitting President. But very very recent

The idea that there is only one President is of long standing.
Eisenhower upon leaving was refered to as General , his former rank.
Clinton would be refered to as Governor
Johnson as Senator.
--
Curiously in office the protocols change as well.
It was never ladies and gentlemen President Obama. It was always .ladies and gentlemen The President of the United States.
It was always The President. Even now there is only person to use the title The President.
And you did not address him as President Obama, but as Mister President
posted by yyz at 3:25 PM on April 5, 2023 [12 favorites]

They should be Mister Eisenhower, Mister Clinton, and Mister Johnson by the same principle that they're no longer in office.

But a worse abomination is referring to the current (or worse, former) attorney general as "general."
posted by kirkaracha at 4:12 PM on April 5, 2023 [4 favorites]

Barabbas.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:05 PM on April 5, 2023

It was always The President. Even now there is only person to use the title The President.

I believe it's even less than that. ISTR it being explained that "President of the United States" isn't a title or rank, it's an office, a role, a position. You don't say "Excuse me, Manager Bonbon, can I have next Friday off?" "CEO Zuckerberg was spotted surfing over the weekend." No, it's "Jane Bonbon, Manager of Widgets and Doohickeys," "CEO of Facebook, Mark Zuckerberg," and "The President of the United States, Joe Biden." Using it as a title is actually a cheapening of the office name, since it's more informal, tantamount to Friar Tuck, Fuckface McGillicuddy, and DJ Idris Alba. /pedant
posted by rhizome at 6:33 PM on April 5, 2023 [7 favorites]

On a sidenote, Robert F. Kennedy to challenge Biden
posted by y2karl at 6:41 PM on April 5, 2023

But a worse abomination is referring to the current (or worse, former) attorney general as "general."

Or the Secretary of the Interior flying a special flag over the building whenever he was "in garrison."
posted by ActingTheGoat at 6:54 PM on April 5, 2023 [4 favorites]

It's a bit complicated.

Thanks for that explanation, yyz. Complicated is right!
posted by Paul Slade at 11:58 PM on April 5, 2023

Using it as a title is actually a cheapening of the office name

Well if he wanted to do the whole military affectation thing, he wouldn't use the office title at all. Lack of specificity, without mentioning a subdivision, means "the whole thing". The more qualifiers you have to put in there, the less impressive. When the Commander of the Pacific Fleet shows up, they announce "Pacific Fleet, arriving".

So Biden's business card would just say Joseph Biden, United States of America. And you would just call him Mr. Biden, because everyone knows who he is. Having to remind everyone in your title all the time is just overcompensating.
posted by ctmf at 12:32 AM on April 6, 2023 [7 favorites]

I'm [command name], XX Office, YY Branch. 3-line title? Not impressive.
posted by ctmf at 12:38 AM on April 6, 2023 [2 favorites]

Having to remind everyone in your title all the time is just overcompensating.

That sort of pathetic insecurity seems very central to Trump's personality. He's a small, empty man.
posted by Paul Slade at 3:02 AM on April 6, 2023 [12 favorites]

The number of people who seem disgruntled that TFG is facing this particular set of charges at the moment has surprised me. A buddy said he will celebrate more when TFG is charged over “top-secret documents, overthrowing the election, or treason.” I don’t have it in me to be that precious about which particular set of criminal actions TFG is finally, or perhaps initially, held accountable for.

I don’t know what will happen over the course of the trial. I cannot be certain that fucking guy will be convicted. But I can and do celebrate that a thoroughly despicable man, a man who has apparently been committing crimes both low and high virtually his entire adult life, is finally being held responsible by the appropriate officials through the appropriate channels and at the appropriate venue for this particular set of crimes. That’s not glamorous, exactly, but neither is that fucking guy. This may turn out to be the perfect (let’s call it starter) prosecution for this “small, empty man.”
posted by Bella Donna at 3:32 AM on April 6, 2023 [20 favorites]

This is only a similar kind of news, and is early days yet since there's only one news outlet investigating it, but apparently one reporter is now starting to take a look at Clarence Thomas as well.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:52 AM on April 6, 2023 [14 favorites]

EmpressCallipygos, might you be willing to post that on the blue? That is a really great link and deserves its own post, especially given that it is not on the topic of this thread (as you note). That is a terrific and horrifying story.
posted by Bella Donna at 3:59 AM on April 6, 2023 [7 favorites]

Will do - didn't know if it was too thin, but you're right.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:00 AM on April 6, 2023 [2 favorites]

On a sidenote, Robert F. Kennedy to challenge Biden

I would sooner vote for his dad.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 4:19 AM on April 6, 2023 [8 favorites]

This is an amazing tone poem. That's the only way I can describe it. Desi Lydic Foxplains Trump's Indictment [3m12s]
posted by hippybear at 2:53 PM on April 6, 2023 [4 favorites]

On a sidenote, Robert F. Kennedy to challenge Biden

On the advice of Steve Bannon, according to Vanity Fair.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 3:03 PM on April 6, 2023

The Donald Trump Indictment, Annotated (New York Times gift link)
posted by kirkaracha at 4:26 PM on April 6, 2023 [1 favorite]

Having to remind everyone in your title all the time is just overcompensating.

Truly important people go by just one name, like British queens or Brazilian soccer players.
posted by clawsoon at 5:13 PM on April 6, 2023 [3 favorites]

I would sooner vote for his dad.

Jr. besmirches an honored name.
posted by y2karl at 5:20 PM on April 6, 2023 [3 favorites]

On the advice of Steve Bannon, according to Vanity Fair.

Is that true? That man is really dedicated to crushing democracy with reality TV. Which makes sense, in a way.
posted by mumimor at 11:32 PM on April 6, 2023 [2 favorites]

The story:

According to CBS News correspondent Robert Costa, the fantastical long shot bid was contrived by Trumpworld power broker Steve Bannon, who had reportedly spent months urging Kennedy to run in the hopes that he might sow chaos on the left. (Vanity Fair has reached out to Kennedy for comment.) Kennedy also has ties to other shady figures in Donald Trump’s orbit: In July 2021, as the right’s hysteria over COVID-19 vaccines was in full swing, a photo shared on Instagram showed Kennedy posing with Roger Stone, the notorious “dirty trickster” of the Republican Party, and Michael Flynn, the former Trump national security adviser turned QAnon influencer. The picture was reportedly taken at an event hosted by ReAwaken America, a Christian nationalist touring group made for and by QAnon followers, anti-vaxxers, and election deniers––a crowd that, needless to say, has very little overlap with the Democratic voters Kennedy would need to win in a primary bid.

It fits with Bannon's "flood the zone with shit" m.o.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:41 AM on April 7, 2023 [8 favorites]

Jr. besmirches an honored name.

There's a reason that most fortunes don't last past a third generation. Despite the aristocracy firmly believing that all of their positive traits will breed true (and that all of their traits are positive), reversion to the mean is far more common.
posted by Etrigan at 7:27 AM on April 7, 2023 [2 favorites]

Twitter thread from Eric Columbus linking to 28 well-considered takes on the indictment from scholars and lawyers. Lots to consider.
posted by Dashy at 8:11 AM on April 7, 2023 [1 favorite]

There's a reason that most fortunes don't last past a third generation

"Shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations," as my dad used to say.
posted by Paul Slade at 8:19 AM on April 7, 2023 [3 favorites]

I am sure that I am not the first person to note that Donald Trump is a creature out of H.P. Lovecraft but man, has he let his Inner Shuggoth nacreously sheen of late.
posted by y2karl at 1:08 PM on April 7, 2023 [1 favorite]

> There's a reason that most fortunes don't last past a third generation

you hear this a lot but i don't know how true it is. The wealthy in florence in the 15th century are still rich, for example. In fact class mobility, up or down, is pretty rare even here in the promised land of possibility. Once you're rich, it's pretty easy to stay rich, that's the magic of being rich.
posted by dis_integration at 1:17 PM on April 7, 2023 [10 favorites]

Oh my family managed the riches to rags journey neatly. Turns out that if you're not really, really rich, you just act like you are and retire early, then you don't leave your family all that much, at least as much is reckoned in this gilded age. Then, once you split that among several people, it's even less and then, if you're just dumb and bad at money partly because nobody ever taught you anything at all except how to spend it or whatever the hell exactly happened to my family *cough* remarkably high ACES scores you got there for rich kids *cough* and you get a big windfall, you spend it. Then it's gone. Then before you know it you are not upper middle class anymore, you and your kids are working poor and that's that, there's only mobility downwards.

But I was just an early adopter of the high socio low economic lifestyle. Many have joined me and many more will be on their way as the billionaires, having drained so much already, turn their straws towards the last vestiges of the middle class.
posted by mygothlaundry at 1:33 PM on April 7, 2023 [11 favorites]

I think the difference is the difference between true wealth and being merely rich. At some point, unless you have a Bleak House sort of situation going on with people fighting over it, the family wealth just simply exists and nobody worries about money much anymore.
posted by hippybear at 1:39 PM on April 7, 2023 [3 favorites]

And that getting merely rich in the first place is mostly luck despite what bootstrappers think. If your kids and grandkids don't get lucky they'll move downward.
posted by Mitheral at 5:44 PM on April 7, 2023 [4 favorites]

I think the difference is where your money makes more money in a magnitude where you can't spend it all. Interest, dividends, rented out property, intellectual property maybe. Because even if you own 10 houses, those houses cost maintenance and property tax. High income from a job can go away, trading stocks or flipping houses only keeps working as long as you're actively doing it. Elon's about to find out that extracting money from a company only works for so long.

A lot of people I know that people would consider reasonably "rich", they appear rich but only have temporarily high incomes. They'll retire, and then spend down their bank accounts living comfortably and it's pretty much over. No dynasty of wealth. The billionaires turn over effortless income streams that take a spectacular fuck-up of a person to sabotage. Unfortunately for even them, spectacular fuck-ups are not exactly rare on a multi-generational timeline.
posted by ctmf at 7:02 PM on April 7, 2023 [2 favorites]

mygothlaundry, I love "high socio low economic lifestyle." That's me to a tee, and I never had a good description for it before.
posted by rikschell at 4:46 AM on April 8, 2023 [4 favorites]

"Shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations," as my dad used to say.

I know what it refers to but I choose to picture all the rich dinguses wearing skeezy tank tops from Myrtle Beach.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:59 AM on April 8, 2023 [6 favorites]

Scene: 1 limousine approaches another and rolls down the window where we see the former president (45). The other limo rolls down its window and we see President Biden.

45: Pardon me?
46: Do you need some Grey Poupon mustard for your McDonald's order?
45: No. Just pardon me.
posted by terrapin at 5:13 AM on April 10, 2023 [2 favorites]

46: I'm not a Ford, I'm a Biden, dude.

Needs work.
posted by box at 5:49 AM on April 10, 2023 [2 favorites]

Indeed.
posted by y2karl at 12:07 PM on April 10, 2023 [1 favorite]

Next court date is, I think December.
posted by hippybear at 1:24 PM on April 10, 2023

DECEMBER?!?!?
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:56 PM on April 10, 2023 [3 favorites]

the wheels of justice grind slowly, like have you seen that one video with all the lego gears, and the one is embedded in concrete
posted by DoctorFedora at 7:38 PM on April 10, 2023 [4 favorites]

Also he already has a court date in October in a different case (Tish James' own suit against the whole Trump enterprise for ongoing tax fraud) and they had to work around that.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:36 AM on April 11, 2023 [2 favorites]

And the E. Jean Carroll case in a couple of weeks.
posted by bink at 10:47 AM on April 11, 2023 [2 favorites]

Well, that's fun. Alvin Bragg is suing Jim Jordan for political interference to get him to back the fuck off. It would be amazing to see all these assholes ending up in legal hot water one after another.
posted by hippybear at 2:01 PM on April 11, 2023 [5 favorites]

Alvin Bragg is suing Jim Jordan for political interference

Once in a while in optimistic moments I start to hope that the lawsuits by Dominion and Smartmatic are the beginning of a trend of actually calling bad actors to account.
posted by trig at 3:38 PM on April 11, 2023 [10 favorites]

And the E. Jean Carroll case in a couple of weeks.

Thought Trump is apparently requesting a four week delay in that trial, citing the negative publicity of, you know, being criminally indicted.
posted by Gelatin at 4:25 AM on April 12, 2023 [3 favorites]

"Your honor, my client is charged with too many crimes to face trial for this crime."
posted by Etrigan at 6:02 AM on April 12, 2023 [24 favorites]

Well, looks like Trump filed suit against Michael Cohen for breach of contract.
posted by box at 1:37 PM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]

At what point do all of Trump's legal involvements end up Bleak House-ing himself into the range where contractors he's not paid in the past get to sue him for breach of contract and not get lawyered to death?
posted by hippybear at 2:04 PM on April 12, 2023 [4 favorites]

Alvin Bragg is suing Jim Jordan for political interference

Read the lawsuit here.
CNN: "Bragg is seeking to block a subpoena for testimony from Mark Pomerantz, a former senior prosecutor in his office,, as well as other demands for “confidential documents and testimony from the district attorney himself as well as his current and former employees and officials.” The 50-page suit is asking a federal court to give emergency and permanent relief that would block enforcement of Jordan’s subpoena for Pomerantz to testify on April 20. Pomerantz told Jordan last month that, per instructions from Bragg’s office, he does not plan to cooperate with the subpoena.

"US District Judge Mary Kay Vyskocil denied Bragg’s request for emergency relief later Tuesday, though the court could still block the subpoena through other forms of relief. She also set a hearing on the matter for April 19."
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:28 PM on April 12, 2023 [2 favorites]

The chef's kiss here is that April 19 is the day Jordon had set for Pomerantz's testimony.
posted by hippybear at 3:37 PM on April 12, 2023 [1 favorite]

Sorry, I meant, she scheduled the trial to overlap with the day for Pomerantz's testimony.
posted by hippybear at 3:38 PM on April 12, 2023

Federal Judge Rejects Trump’s Attempt To Target Jurors At Rape Trial

Judge gives him a legal beat down

“This motion proposes the use of a juror questionnaire that — notwithstanding the Court’s ruling that an anonymous jury will be employed — seeks to require prospective jurors to give their names, their employment, and the employment of all of their immediate family members,” Kaplan noted. “The Court denied the parties’ request for their legal teams to access the jurors’ names in its April 10, 2023 decision. Nothing between then and now has occurred to warrant revisiting that ruling.” At issue is that jurors, if their identifying information is disclosed, could face harassment.

posted by Mitheral at 4:58 AM on April 15, 2023 [7 favorites]

Aw. And there was me so looking forward to the NYT being utterly astonished! that such a prominent citizen! could be behind any such thing! when the jury tampering stories reach critical mass two years after Not Guilty.

Rot in prison, motherfucker. Orange is the new orange.
posted by flabdablet at 6:36 AM on April 15, 2023 [4 favorites]

Judge gives him a legal beat down

Judge Lewis Kaplan has had zero-tolerance for Trump-type hijinks.
posted by mikelieman at 10:38 AM on April 15, 2023 [3 favorites]

Octopus dinner
posted by mbo at 8:30 PM on April 16, 2023 [1 favorite]

Yesterday, DA Bragg agreed to let House Judiciary Committee Republicans question ex-prosecutor Mark Pomeratz next month. "Bragg’s office said the agreement, delaying Pomerantz’s testimony until May 12, preserves the district attorney’s “privileges and interests” in his ongoing Trump prosecution." (ABC News)
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:39 PM on April 22, 2023

Trump’s attendance at rape and defamation trial against him would be a ‘burden’ on the city, his lawyer says (CNN) "The letter to the judge, from attorney Joseph Tacopina, appears to argue that Trump shouldn’t attend his civil trial without saying he won’t." [...]

Excerpt: Although Defendant Trump wishes to appear at trial, in order to avoid the burdens outlined above, if he does not do so, we respectfully request that the Court issue to the jury the following preliminary instruction: "While no litigant is required to appear at a civil trial, the absence of the defendant in this matter, by design, avoids the logistical burdens that his presence, as the former president, would cause the courthouse and New York City. Accordingly, his presence is excused unless and until he is called by either party to testify."

Logistical hurdles, though Tacopina also referenced financial burdens on NYC, residents, and the Court, per his own experience representing Trump during the People v. Trump arraignment approximately two minutes ago. Trump's been inconveniencing NYC for ages.
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:06 AM on April 23, 2023 [1 favorite]

Excellent response letter with pointed cite from Carroll's attorney, Roberta A. Kaplan, excerpted: Mr. Trump's motion is frivolous. Mr. Trump will soon stand trial in federal court for sexual assault and defamation. These are extremely serious claims -- and he has the right to appear at trial and testify under oath in his own defense. In the alternative, he has to right to decline to appear at trial, and to accept any associated consequences. Given the gravity of the allegations at issue in this case, one might expect Mr. Trump to appear in person. But he is obviously free to choose otherwise. Either way, Ms. Carroll has a right to play Donald Trump's deposition at trial under Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 32(a)(3), so she has no need for him to testify live.

However, the notion that Mr. Trump would not appear as some sort of favor to the City of New York -- and that the jury should be instructed as much --- "taxes the credulity of the credulous." Maryland v. King, 569 U.S. 435, 466, 133 Ct. 1958, 1980 (2013) (Scalia, J., dissenting).[*] [...]

If Mr. Trump decides not to appear at his own trial for sexual assault and defamation, the jury may draw whatever inferences it chooses -- and Mr. Trump has no right to a judicial endorsement of his (flimsy) excuse.

[Kaplan details the defendant's busy travel schedule, and that last Monday, Trump announced that he'll be in New Hampshire for a campaign event on Wednesday, April 27 --] "[I]n other words, in the middle of the trial of this case. If Mr. Trump can find a way to attend wrestling championships, political conventions, civil depositions, and campaign functions, then surely he could surmount the logistics of attending his own federal trial.
--
*Maryland v. King: Alonzo Jay King, Jr. was arrested on first and second degree assault charges. While under arrest, but prior to conviction, King's DNA was collected and logged in Maryland's DNA database. That database matched King's DNA to a DNA sample from an unsolved rape case. This sample was the only evidence linking King to the rape. [...] The Court held that conducting a DNA swab test as a part of the arrest procedure does not violate the Fourth Amendment because the test serves a legitimate state interest and is not so invasive so as to require a warrant. (oyez.org)

Jury selection begins next week, and Carroll plans to attend the trial.
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:35 AM on April 23, 2023 [6 favorites]

Mr. Trump's motion is frivolous.

Maybe so. But he has nothing on Pence.
posted by flabdablet at 1:47 AM on April 23, 2023 [1 favorite]