[ELECTION 2016] ♪♫ He’s never gon' be President now... ♪♫

October 8, 2016 4:21 AM

One month before Election Day, with the Trump campaign reeling from enough October Surprises to fill an advent calendar, the Washington Post's intrepid David Fahrenthold has landed what may be the mortal blow: vulgar 2005 footage of the Republican nominee bragging about his sexual abuse of married women, just months after marrying his third wife, Melania. "When you’re a star, they let you do it," the future presidential candidate declares. "Grab 'em by the p***y. You can do anything." The bombshell has forced GOP leaders to recoil from Trump and issue a parade of rebukes, with Utah Rep. Jason Chaffetz revoking support, House Speaker Paul Ryan cancelling a joint rally, and top donors pulling funds and demanding a new candidate. Hours after a terse press release from the then-59-year-old calling it "locker room banter," Trump released a rare apology in a midnight video maligning the Clintons while vowing to attend the presidential town hall debate Sunday. Betting markets aren't so sure. Unfortunately for the GOP, there’s no longer any way to boot Donald Trump from the ballot.

[Note: This story originally broke yesterday afternoon; see starting here for several hundred comments on the news at the end of the old VP debate thread. Mobile users beware: the whole thread is ~4,000 comments long!]

A partial transcript of Trump's comments:

I moved on her, and I failed. I’ll admit it. I did try and fuck her. She was married. And I moved on her very heavily. In fact, I took her out furniture shopping. She wanted to get some furniture. I said, ‘I’ll show you where they have some nice furniture.’

I moved on her like a bitch, but I couldn’t get there. And she was married. Then all of a sudden I see her, she’s now got the big phony tits and everything. She’s totally changed her look. [...]

I’ve got to use some Tic Tacs, just in case I start kissing her. You know I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything.

(full transcript here)

Fun fact: Billy Bush, the Access Hollywood host Trump is heard bragging to, is the cousin of former President George W. Bush (and has a polarizing history of his own). Really makes u think...

Unfun fact: Ashley Judd claims Donald Trump commented similarly about "his family member's spouse"

Selected reactions:

Hillary Clinton: "This is horrific. We cannot allow this man to become president."

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY): "These comments are repugnant and unacceptable in any circumstance. As the father of three daughters, I strongly believe that Trump needs to apologize directly to women and girls everywhere, and take full responsibility for the utter lack of respect for women shown in his comments on that tape."

Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV): "This is a moment of truth for Republicans... There is no way to defend the indefensible. In the name of decency, Republicans should admit that this deviant — this sociopath — cannot be president. [...] Never in history has a party nominated someone more unfit to be president. There is still time for Republicans to acknowledge their mistake and salvage their dignity. They can do so by finally deciding to put the good of our country first."

Sen. Mark Kirk (R-IL): "DJT is a malignant clown - unprepared and unfit to be president of the United States. [...] @realDonaldTrump should drop out. @GOP should engage rules for emergency replacement."

2012 GOP nominee Mitt Romney: "Hitting on married women? Condoning assault? Such vile degradations demean our wives and daughters and corrupt America's face to the world."

Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-UT): I’m out. I can no longer in good conscience endorse this person for president. It is some of the most abhorrent and offensive comments that you can possibly imagine. [...] My wife, Julie and I, we've got a 15-year-old daughter. You think I can look her in the eye and tell her that I endorse Donald Trump for president when he acts like this?

CNN's Erin Burnett confronts Trump surrogate Scottie Nell Hughes over a 2010 sexual assault confided by a close friend that corroborates Trump's boasting.

Or witness GOP strategist Ana Navarro's 🔥righteous meltdown🔥 at Hughes that evening (and luxuriate in the split-screen reaction shots of the Trump supporters on the panel)

The Onion's take:

Trump: ‘I Know That Was Pretty Bad, But Let’s Just Say You’re Going To Want To Save Your Energy’

Trump Surrogate Enjoying Thrill Of Not Knowing What She Going To Be Defending Minute To Minute

Evangelical leaders, naturally, say they will continue to support Trump, with the Family Research Council's Tony Perkins saying, "My personal support for Donald Trump has never been based upon shared values." Journalist Farai Chideya has an excellent entry in her FiveThirtyEight series "The Voters" examining the painful paradoxes of evangelical Trump supporters.

(Speaking of which, former Trump chair Corey Lewandowski defends his boss by protesting that "we're not choosing a Sunday school teacher here," a perfect opportunity to note that Sec. Clinton is herself a former Sunday school teacher.)

FiveThirtyEight Senate Update: 6 Really Important Races Are Really Close

Comic relief: SNL's Alec Baldwin and Kate McKinnon on the first presidential debate. As for the Veep showdown, Greg Nog's puppets have another installment of ALL CANDIDATES DEBATE, while this Clinton ad is funnier than (Pence's) fiction. On the Daily Show, Trevor Noah dissect's Mike Pence's "broad-shouldered" bullshit. Need more schadenfreude in your life? Servile puppy dog Ted Cruz mans the phones shortly before the Trump tape drops... and finds himself the target of a Photoshop Battle. Lastly: Samantha Bee delivers a cutting parody of Trump's comments. Bee also explored the "beta version" of Trump in racist demagogue and Maine governor Paul LePage -- and considers the implications for the presidential election.

Housekeeping: The MeFiWiki's Election Thread Reference - MetaTalk Election Logistics thread - How to vote in every state - MeFi Chat (now including an election-only channel!)

posted by Rhaomi (2490 comments total)

Surely this.
posted by chavenet at 4:23 AM on October 8, 2016 [43 favorites]

Maybe. Maybe this.
posted by Artw at 4:24 AM on October 8, 2016 [136 favorites]

As I said in the last thread:

it's kind of laughable that NeverTrumpers are trying to get him off the ballot, seeing as how their actions over the last decade are what made the ground fertile for Trump. They've been supporting voter suppression, Ryan's disastrous and morally bankrupt budget plan, removal of health care for those who need it most, heartless immigration laws, anti-LGBTQ bigotry, the denial of 1st Amendment rights to religious minorities, anti-woman policies on health and children, neo-Confederate hogwash, and much much more. Sometimes they do it enthusiastically, sometimes they wrap it in shitty Confederate/Jim Crow language about "state's rights," sometimes by excusing away bigotry as earnest and heart-felt and honestly come by, and sometimes by their very noticeable silence and inaction when it was needed most.

Hell, literally to this day they're still demonstrating how someone like Trump came to be the nominee. Remember all of 18 hours ago when he insisted that five PoC deserved punishment for a crime they were exonerated for by the physical evidence? I don't recall seeing a single goddamned NeverTrumper standing up for the Central Park Five. That's moral and ethical (and spiritual, if they're religious) malpractice on a grand scale, and excuse me if I'm not exactly exercised that they're trying to get out of the same situation that they've worked so hard to create all this time.

To reverse a quote from Obama's 2012 campaign that even NeverTrumpers got upset over: They built that.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:25 AM on October 8, 2016 [187 favorites]

Wow, epic post, thanks.

I know Trump is a walking "Surely, this will..." joke, but this really is a milestone in his barrage of head-slapping moments/revelations. There's no grey area here--his misogyny and repugnant character are really, truly laid bare. Rather impossible to defend. Republicans still supporting Trump after this should have their feet held to the fire, repeatedly.
posted by zardoz at 4:26 AM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]

So... do you think Melania will wait until November 9th to file papers?
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 4:26 AM on October 8, 2016 [37 favorites]

How are people shocked by this? This is exactly how I imagined he behaved in private.
posted by double bubble at 4:27 AM on October 8, 2016 [246 favorites]

I think this scandal is different primarily because it makes trump look like a creep and a pervert. The phrasing is just so sleazy. It totally ruins his illusion of power that he was able to maintain through, for example, the tax scandal. You can imagine cheating on your taxes to get richer. Sexual assault and rape are a harder sell, even for the deplorables.
posted by codacorolla at 4:27 AM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

So I donated to Hilary a while back and I have to be honest that the constant email requests for additional donations were starting to get tiring. Then about 10 minutes ago I got this . . .

I’m sorry to every woman who has ever been attacked, assaulted, or even just whistled at on the street who is now watching this man and his unabashed, flagrant sexism inch closer and closer to the presidency.

I’m sorry to the voters in the Republican Party who are faced with the choice of ignoring this kind of disgusting behavior or admitting that their candidate is a xenophobic, hateful reversion to a more backward time. I’m sorry -- and I’m so, so glad to have a candidate that I can fight my heart out for every minute of the next 31 days.

If you’re with Hillary -- and dear god, do I hope you’re with Hillary right now -- chip in $100, and let’s crush this guy in every county from Maine to Hawaii.

. . . aaaaand pulled out my wallet again cause this shit is real.
posted by jeremias at 4:28 AM on October 8, 2016 [96 favorites]

He’s never gon' be President now... ♪♫

Do you want to tempt the wrath of the whatever from high atop the thing????
posted by Snarl Furillo at 4:28 AM on October 8, 2016 [59 favorites]

‏@chrislhayes: It is so revealing all these Republicans saying "I have a wife & daughter & mother"

You don't know any Muslims? Any Mexican immigrants?
posted by zombieflanders at 4:32 AM on October 8, 2016 [227 favorites]

It's likely that they do not.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [28 favorites]

His attempts at apologies are surreal.
posted by notreally at 4:40 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

It's interesting to think that so many of his supporters could excuse his comments about people of colour, people with disabilities, and muslim people, but that this is unacceptable.

I completely agree that it's unacceptable, but let's not forget what came before. People are going to spin this so it looks like they knew he was a rotten egg from the beginning, but the truth is that there are a lot of people who were okay with his racism and islamophobia. If indeed this is the end of him, it's a sad indictment that nothing that came before was bad enough for many people.
posted by twirlypen at 4:40 AM on October 8, 2016 [88 favorites]

As much as I would have loved to see Hillary beat a more serious opponent, it will at least be poetically satisfying to see Trump's own sexism used to deliver the finishing move as he is crushed by a woman.
posted by p3t3 at 4:41 AM on October 8, 2016 [66 favorites]

:o
(Literally, just speechless. Wow.)
posted by sexyrobot at 4:43 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

twirlypen: "it's a sad indictment that nothing that came before was bad enough for many people."

oh, it's obviously appalling that someone like him is still a public figure after... being introduced to him decades ago.

I just want to say the terribly weak "locker room talk" excuse shit is so infuriating to me. I'm admittedly a fairly run-of-the-mill cis white male American vanilla middle-class whatever and I have never, ever said shit like that about a woman, and never would. I have heard men say some really bad shit, but still this is really up there in terms of baseness and wretchedness.
I find it hilarious that he and his surrogates are saying "well, that was 12 years ago"... yeah, when he was just an impetuous youth, a foolish lad of 60.
posted by Red Loop at 4:44 AM on October 8, 2016 [158 favorites]

So... do you think Melania will wait until November 9th to file papers?

Her marriage contract probably doesn't allow for it.
posted by Artw at 4:44 AM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]

No man in my family ever spoke like this. Where does this stuff come from?

Gah, what a calamity for America that this person ever was.
posted by wenestvedt at 4:47 AM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

So... do you think Melania will wait until November 9th to file papers?

In all honesty do you not think she knew what she was getting into when she signed on to being a billionaires third supermodel wife? Or at least knew a long time before now? Clearly it's a bargain she's willing to make.
posted by bracems at 4:47 AM on October 8, 2016 [41 favorites]

It's strange. A lot of Mefites have expressed surprise that anyone is surprised, and you know, I was pretty shocked actually.

I mean, not at the discovery that Trump was a disgusting sexist pig. Sure, anyone who paid attention to him for 10 seconds would know that.

But there IS actually something abnormal in his comments. There are lots of men who feel comfortable constantly rating every woman around them on an attractiveness scale. They use words like bitch and whore and slut and talk about what they'd like to do to her or whatever. That's actual locker-room talk. It's sexist and I'm not excusing it at all.

But talking about how you like to sexually assault women and they don't even mind. That's an entirely different thing. Bragging about how you get away with it. And the worst part to me is that I don't think Trump understands at all that he's talking about committing a crime. He very obviously, in both of his official reactions to the tape, doesn't get why it's a big deal. He thinks he said something offensive. He doesn't realize he described himself committing sexual assault.

THAT. That is a fucking psychopath. That is, I think, why this is the last straw. Why people are reacting to it. It's not just because it's sexist. It's because they got an up close and personal glimpse underneath the human mask and realized Holy Shit, he really is a fucking monster.
posted by threeturtles at 4:48 AM on October 8, 2016 [372 favorites]

This is a great, well-structured, and comprehensive Election2016 post (and FPP in general). Thanks Rhaomi.
posted by Wordshore at 4:50 AM on October 8, 2016 [64 favorites]

Are people shocked? We all knew. The power of this is its undeniable, easily digestible and laid bare for all to see in a format that reaches where others do not.

We all also know there's more. One assumes an army of people are going through the Apprentice tapes right now if they weren't already.
posted by vbfg at 4:51 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

My personal support for Donald Trump has never been based upon shared values.

Dude, bigotry and spite are values.
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:51 AM on October 8, 2016 [112 favorites]

I eagerly await the Trump camp to try and spin this as more liberal media persecution, some sort of political witch hunt. Because Clinton has been under scrutiny for decades now, and has been investigated by the FBI and hauled before Congress on multiple occasions, all of which turned up basically nothing.

Trump, on the other hand, can't even go one political campaign worth of scrutiny without his king-sized, gold-plated closet full of skeletons spilling out so badly that even GOP hacks are jumping to repudiate him.
posted by Panjandrum at 4:52 AM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]

In other news, I think my schadenfreude gland has become inflamed from over-stimulation.
posted by Panjandrum at 4:53 AM on October 8, 2016 [105 favorites]

Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-UT): I’m out. I can no longer in good conscience endorse this person for president. It is some of the most abhorrent and offensive comments that you can possibly imagine. [...] My wife, Julie and I, we've got a 15-year-old daughter. You think I can look her in the eye and tell her that I endorse Donald Trump for president when he acts like this?

And yet you and your cronies were willing to turn the other fucking way when he attacked every other fucking minority group in existence, just to keep your precious grip on political power in this country. So now we know just how much a bridge too far is to your personal repugnant "conscience." It's the line that crosses your "FUCK YOU, I'VE GOT MINE" philosophy.

I was never voting for Trump. But I have an 8 year old daughter who loves school and was excited to start third grade, yet who is now having to deal with some boys in her class that have been pulling on her arm, calling her names and other shitty behavior. Who came home in tears on Wednesday saying that they were ruining school for her. I can only imagine little 8 year old bullies proudly proclaiming to her that President Donald Trump does it so it's okay.

To 8 year old American kids, the President is often a big deal. Someone to idolize. People who run for the office can seem larger than life. Heck, that's not restricted to 8 year olds! It applies to much of the country. So given a choice, Republicans nominated a guy for President whom bullies and rapists and misogynists and racists can idolize. Good job, motherfuckers.

It's nice that you're suddenly worried about what your daughter will think, Representative Chaffetz. But it's an absolute sin that you didn't consider other people's daughters until your orange fucking chicken came home to roost.

And before we laud Chaffetz' "brave" decision, he's still not going to vote for the one person that could keep Trump out of office. So this is meaningless symbolic nonsense from yet another Republican asshole.
posted by zarq at 4:55 AM on October 8, 2016 [296 favorites]

Watching some MSNBC before leaving for work. These newscasters (I'm looking at you, Chuck Todd) are all I'm shocked, shocked to discover what a vile douchebag Donald is and realizing he doesn't have the moral authority to be president. If they'd bothered to do any journalism instead of letting Donald define the terms of the reporting and being swayed by his money and celebrity, if they'd paid any attention to his pervasive lack of respect for anybody not rich and white and male, it would be far different race.

I am so glad it's an issue of equality and respect for women as human beings that's tanking his campaign.
posted by theora55 at 4:58 AM on October 8, 2016 [36 favorites]

I didn't read all the comments in the previous thread & can't open it on my phone, so this excellent article by Alexandra Petri of the Washington Post may have been linked, but it's worth reading.

Ah, yes, just locker room banter. As far as I can tell, the conversations in men’s locker rooms all must go something like this.

First man: Phew! Thank goodness. It was exhausting to have to walk through the world talking to all those women as though they were just people, like us. Clearly, they are not. They are women. Their bodies exist for us to look at and do sex to.

Second Man: I do sex constantly! I obtained a great deal of sex today from the many walking sex dispensers that are to be found drifting through the world! I must obtain as much as possible from the best-looking dispensers so that I can win respect from fellow men like you!

. . .

That is the awful thing about this conversation. It is not that it is especially lewd, although it is. It is not that it is violent and awful and wrong, although it is. It is the fact that it is, within certain circles, still quite normal. It’s the fact that Donald Trump used, as a defense, the idea that he’d said much worse.

It’s the fact that when Billy Bush heard him, Bush did not stop the bus they were riding on and say, “MY GOD, MAN, YOU ARE SICK! THIS IS SICK! THIS IS AWFUL!” He nodded. He laughed. You had the sense that Donald Trump could have escalated still further — past non-consensually grabbing people by the p—y (that’s sexual assault, by the way) — and into building himself a coat from female skin before Bush would have begun pushing back.


posted by insectosaurus at 5:00 AM on October 8, 2016 [81 favorites]

Just as the beans and corn harvest begins, the Trump-Pence yard signs have started sprouting around here like fucking super-dandelions. It's crazy. I don't even think Muncie had a Hillary office where I can pick up a couple of logo pins. (I'd put a yard sign up but, this is the land where vandalism can be very, very ugly.)
posted by Thorzdad at 5:03 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

One thought I had: how are future grade school textbooks going to report on this if it is indeed an inflection point in the campaign?
posted by codacorolla at 5:05 AM on October 8, 2016 [34 favorites]

insectosaurus: "It’s the fact that when Billy Bush heard him, Bush did not stop the bus they were riding on and say, “MY GOD, MAN, YOU ARE SICK! THIS IS SICK! THIS IS AWFUL!” He nodded. He laughed. You had the sense that Donald Trump could have escalated still further — past non-consensually grabbing people by the p—y (that’s sexual assault, by the way) — and into building himself a coat from female skin before Bush would have begun pushing back."

VOTE TRUMP 2016: Because of the Implication
posted by Rhaomi at 5:05 AM on October 8, 2016 [24 favorites]

For all the rafts of stats about voting behavior, there's one we'll never get come November: the number of Republican men who mistakenly believe that their wives voted for Donald Trump.
posted by Short Attention Sp at 5:09 AM on October 8, 2016 [153 favorites]

I'm sorry your daughter has had to deal with that, zarq.

codacorolla, that's an interesting question. My older child has begun paying more attention to the news, and I'm torn between wanting him to see just how unacceptable that kind of behavior is and wanting to limit it to the good news about Trump's declining support.
posted by Songdog at 5:11 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

One thought I had: how are future grade school textbooks going to report on this if it is indeed an inflection point in the campaign?

Depends who wins. If it's DT, maybe they'll use a centerfold.
posted by chavenet at 5:11 AM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

I just now watched GregNog's video linked in the FPP. Great stuff. All the puppets are excellent, and the writing, and directing, etc. The news cycle moves so fast that the VP pick almost seems like last year, but it's exactly what I needed after the latest Trumpstorm of Shame.
posted by krinklyfig at 5:11 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Great post. Appropriately epic for this moment.

I still can't get over the way he says "moved on her" over and over. It's so creepy.
posted by sallybrown at 5:11 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

It was likely linked in the other thread and if so, I apologize, but this article by Virginia Heffernan about Trump's appearances on Howard Stern back in the 90's is a pretty great look into just this 'shit-talking/locker-room' business.

Also, though it's an entirely appropriate response, on the part of everyone calling him out, I thought the calls to '2nd amendment supporters' to take care of Hillary was even creepier.
posted by From Bklyn at 5:11 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

I have a family member --- a young, mixed-race (Mexican, Apache, Filipina and a few other things) woman --- who still, even after this latest crap hit the news, is planning to vote for Trump. I find it impossible to understand how in the world she can possibly justify voting for a man who 1) hates her because she is female, 2) hates her because she is brown-skinned, and 3) hates her because both of her parents are immigrants to this country.
posted by easily confused at 5:15 AM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]

It's as though everything Trump knows about women and men he learned from the "Penthouse Letters" column back in the 80s.
posted by wenestvedt at 5:15 AM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]

I'm sorry your daughter has had to deal with that, zarq.

Thanks. We've spoken with the school's administrators, who are stepping in.
posted by zarq at 5:15 AM on October 8, 2016 [47 favorites]

One thought I had: how are future grade school textbooks going to report on this if it is indeed an inflection point in the campaign?

I think they'll just say it was a series of missteps that doomed a long-troubled candidacy. Retrospectively -- not living in fear of catastrophe -- he will look like someone who never had a chance to begin with.
posted by gerryblog at 5:16 AM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]

Trump-Pence yard signs have started sprouting around here like fucking super-dandelions.

Ugh, there is a GIANT (maybe 8x4 foot) Trump-Pence sign next to the shared driveway to my apartment building. One of my neighbors checked with management about it, and they said that the commercial building that shares the driveway authorized it - it is on that side. Apparently a Republican group is renting space in the building and has permission to have it up. Now I have to see it every time I leave or arrive home.

So earlier this morning we spent as little over $100 in the Clinton merch store and got shirts, buttons, and a sign for our window. It doesn't make the big sign go away, but it helps me feel a little better

I am very tempted to vandalize the Trump sign - I won't, but I want to.
posted by insectosaurus at 5:17 AM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]

how are future grade school textbooks going to report on this if it is indeed an inflection point in the campaign?

My memory of school history textbooks is that they spent very little time discussing campaigns - a little bit on how the televised debates influenced the choice between Kennedy and Nixon, a little bit on Watergate, but not much else.

But if they talk about it, I can see it playing out like this vine.
posted by Jeanne at 5:18 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

His attempts at apologies are surreal.

He doesn't believe he did anything wrong.

Frankly, if this ends with the family losing the rights to the name, it's a small beginning.
posted by mikelieman at 5:19 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

I'm on my way to New Hampshire in half an hour. Today will be FASCINATING.
posted by pxe2000 at 5:22 AM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]

I'm hoping this episode is in the textbooks in the chapter that explains why there isn't a Republican party anymore.
posted by diogenes at 5:25 AM on October 8, 2016 [83 favorites]

It's as though everything Trump knows about women and men he learned from the "Penthouse Letters" column back in the 80s.

How do you know that's not exactly the case?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:28 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

Locker room talk: man I'd like to grab her right in the pussy

Trump: oh I always just grab them whether they like it or not
posted by that's how you get ants at 5:29 AM on October 8, 2016 [33 favorites]

Woke up this morning remembering how much flack Jimmy Carter got from conservatives and Christians for admitting that he "had lusted in his heart. "
posted by Sublimity at 5:31 AM on October 8, 2016 [220 favorites]

1. What candidates said and did in the past was kept from public view till recent times. JFK, FDR, LBJ were marital cheaters but that kept by the press from the public

2. What Trump said was in fact not at all unusual. Kissinger once remarked that power is a wonderful aphrodisiac...and we all know about the casting couch in Hollywood. The rich are not like others, to glance at an F. Scott Fitzgerald remark.

3. Important to note: the Trump Dump (this video) pushes aside the Wikileaks material on Hillary and her corporate speeches and hypocrisy.
Finally those of us supporting the Democrats are delighted at this deadly wound to the Trump campaign, a campaign already in deep trouble according to all polls.
posted by Postroad at 5:31 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

I am very tempted to vandalize the Trump sign - I won't, but I want to.

Here's the thing about taking the high ground - someone else is always gonna crack and take the low road, eventually.

So if you take the high ground, you get the satisfaction of knowing that you behaved admirably, AND you often get the satisfaction of seeing that petty thing you wanted to do still happening anyway.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:32 AM on October 8, 2016 [68 favorites]

I think one reason this scandal has pushed things over the edge is that it clicks in profound ways with other bad but not quite as disturbing aspects of Trump's behavior, all of which point to one guiding philosophy:

If there's nobody who can stop you, you can take what you want.

Trump obviously thinks this is true of everything -- women, money, real estate, and even the Presidency. It explains his casual refusal to pay vendors and his shameless string of bankruptcies and screwed-over business partners.

What is striking about the pussy quote is that this is so obviously a window to Trump's true nature. It's not an act or posturing or a sales job; the man was 59 years old so this is not something he's going to grow out of. And most of the other stuff he's done is stuff that is semi-admirable if you look at it sideways, like sharp trading instead of cheating or bankruptcy as a clever use of the law instead of a badge of shame. But this just nakedly exposes Trump's real motivation, which is that if you aren't able to stop Trump from taking it then it belongs to Trump.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:32 AM on October 8, 2016 [87 favorites]

I'm a woman, so maybe that's why I don't get this, but when Trump sez "Grab 'em by the pussy" I don't understand why Billy Bush's reaction isn't just "Wow. How does that work. Don't they sever your hand from your arm as their thighs contract violently in horror? Don't they sue you for something?"

And writing this, I thought, no, because the understood assumption here is that once you are DJT, women will enjoy being kissed without asked. They will enjoy being raped.

So I honestly don't care if he refers to women's genitals as pussy outside of the fact that damn, man, are you in seventh grade, or how often he says fuck to refer to sex.

It's that he's pushing the notion that women are asking for it.

Yeah, there's really no amount of suffering this toadstool would go through and I'd feel sorry for him. I don't believe in hell, so I wish him a remainder of days that are dark and joyless.
posted by angrycat at 5:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [35 favorites]

Just as the beans and corn harvest begins ...

As I started reading this I thought poffin boffin was going to call on us to build the wicker man.

I am disappoint.
posted by krinklyfig at 5:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [87 favorites]

How are people shocked by this? This is exactly how I imagined he behaved in private.

This. Trump supporters I know are still going to vote for him because they don't care what he says. They've been able to shrug off every ridiculous thing that's come out of his mouth since the beginning. They see him as a smart businessman who's going to save the country. They don't think a woman can be president, period. It doesn't go any deeper than that.

Those who are expecting depth, or a level of insight from Trump supporters and think, "Surely this. THIS will make them see the light;" they don't understand that Trump supporters think they already DO see the light. They don't WANT to dig deeper and to think.

Their minds were made up as soon as he entered the race. NOTHING is going to change their minds.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 5:34 AM on October 8, 2016 [37 favorites]

He's cooked. Let's just enjoy watching him scramble for the next month.
posted by davebush at 5:35 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

I think it's okay to vandalize swastikas and the like. In fact, it may be a moral requirement. And at this point, the Trump name is getting pretty close to that.
posted by rikschell at 5:35 AM on October 8, 2016 [22 favorites]

Appalling and not surprising.

But what angers me the most right now is not this individual, repellent man, but the silence that has surrounded his abuse of women throughout his campaign. Anyone who has been silent until now on Donald Trump's abuse of women is complicit in his crimes. I cannot take any of the news rebukes or revocations of support seriously. This is rape culture writ large.

Seriously, fuck Donald Trump, fuck the GOP, and fuck anyone who votes for him. It is inexcusable. It is beyond the pale. It goes beyond the plausible deniability of different politics--it is plainly, clearly, throwing women under the bus for the sake of party loyalty.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 5:36 AM on October 8, 2016 [45 favorites]

I think it's okay to vandalize swastikas and the like. In fact, it may be a moral requirement. And at this point, the Trump name is getting pretty close to that.

No need to do that. Just make up some stickers with his new slogan, "GRAB THEM BY THE PUSSY!" and adhere them neatly to the bottom of each sign.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 5:38 AM on October 8, 2016 [71 favorites]

pxe2000, I would love to hear reactions from voters you canvass, if you want to share!
posted by sallybrown at 5:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Also worth noting, since this story broke a number of models and beauty pageant contestants have mentioned his tendency to take unsolicited kisses full on the mouth and groping. Trump probably believes, like the similarly loathesome Henry Kissinger, that wealth and power are aphrodisiacs that make people like him irresistable to women. Thus his genuine puzzlement when he was unable to bed the married woman he'd targeted.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:42 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

My friends who are Trump supporters are doubling down and reposting some article about how Trump Casinos hired more women than men. Posted with the words "Actions speak louder than words." I just can't even.

It's seriously as though they inhabit some other time/space dimension which only loosely touches ours. In their dimension, Trump is a hero and a truly great man, and all of their press and news says it is so. They look at our reaction to "our" Trump with horror and fail to recognise it.

I suppose nobody likes to admit that they've been conned.
posted by frumiousb at 5:43 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

GOP insiders: It's not a knockout blow.

Is this the denial or the bargaining stage of grief?
posted by dis_integration at 5:43 AM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]

Well, I'm not sure it's a knock-out blow. I hope it is, surely. But if there was ever a political version of Jason Voorhees then Trump is it. Don't turn your back on the corpse.
posted by frumiousb at 5:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [52 favorites]

GOP insiders: It's a mere flesh wound.
posted by drezdn at 5:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [38 favorites]

dis_integration: It's denial. If it was bargaining they would be making offerings that could make up for it.

Thing is, when 46% of your own party says you're toast, and your party is just about exactly half of the electorate, you are pretty burnt and crispy.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

It's fascinating seeing which media orgs have quoted the video verbatim and which have interspersed asterisks, dashes, etc. -- and which have started out taking the latter approach, then switched to direct quotes (like the NY Times). We're watching real-time editorial decision-making on the dilemma of newsworthiness vs. preserving the standards of public discourse.

Which forces you to step back and realize how much Trump has dragged U.S. public discourse into the gutter. Then there's the matter of a candidate for the U.S. presidency bragging of committing repeated sexual assaults.

May these be the final death throes of frat boy rape culture.
posted by rhnyc1 at 5:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [98 favorites]

How are people shocked by this? This is exactly how I imagined he behaved in private.

I'm not shocked that he said these things. There's been implicit knowledge of him behaving deplorably towards women, & several things have been put out there - statements from court filings & such that haven't taken hold because they weren't his words, so there's been some one side/the other side spin put on the reports. This time though, it's his own words & not only are they awful things to say, he is actually admitting to sexual assault on tape. I for one am glad to see the gunny sack tear open to lay bare the ball of snakes within & am relatively certain that this it the Trumptanic hitting the iceberg. Only his paid surrogates are going on tv and saying "What...the ship's not sinking, in fact the bow is 150 feet in the air!" Everyone else is trying to get aboard a lifeboat (USS Unpossible-- replace him on the ballot) or just simply donning life vests and hoping to survive November. Essentially, I am unsurprised in any way shape or form, but rather filled with glee.
posted by Devils Rancher at 5:51 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

If the people who are going to vote for him actually cared one whit what Trump said, his numbers would have tanked ages ago. This latest revelation will make only the tiniest difference to his support. Anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't been paying attention at all.
The only difference is that the public figures who didn't have to disavow him when he bad mouthed the immigrants or handicapped or whoever else now seem to be thinking that they have to distance themselves. Sure, making fun of brown people or cripples is fine, but don't mess with the chicks!
posted by conifer at 5:51 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

mikelieman: Frankly, if this ends with the family losing the rights to the name, it's a small beginning.

I want the Trump name to be destroyed. No more developing real estate, no more selling naming rights for buildings, driven towards bankruptcy. And I want those chucklefuck sons to be forced to work forward-facing customer service jobs at a carpet warehouse, forever mocked about their shitty family name, never able to afford another goddamn hunting safari.
posted by bluecore at 5:52 AM on October 8, 2016 [120 favorites]

Since this news broke I've been fantasizing about printing up RAPIST stickers to cover the TRUMP on yard signs, but imagining is as far as I intend to go with the idea. Not least because there aren't any TRUMP signs near me.

(The Republican neighbor has signs for the (very bad) incumbent governor and (even worse) incumbent lieutenant governor, but all the other signs are for Democrats; Clinton's and various local campaigns in roughly equal measure. As is fit for the residents of a locale that's been gerrymandered to hell; after getting beaten with a shitty stick for years by the Republicans the only grounds for supporting them here is because you're new to town or you're not bright.)
posted by at by at 5:56 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

For "evangelicals" the only thing that matters is getting a conservative Supreme Court justice. They will never give up on Trump. This latest news will not bring him down.
posted by SyraCarol at 5:57 AM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

> How are people shocked by this? This is exactly how I imagined he behaved in private.

Evidence is better than speculation.
posted by at by at 5:58 AM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

Important to note: the Trump Dump (this video) pushes aside the Wikileaks material on Hillary and her corporate speeches and hypocrisy.

I'm literally laughing out loud.
posted by codacorolla at 5:58 AM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]

THAT. That is a fucking psychopath. That is, I think, why this is the last straw. Why people are reacting to it. It's not just because it's sexist. It's because they got an up close and personal glimpse underneath the human mask and realized Holy Shit, he really is a fucking monster

Again, I submit that the reason this broke the proverbial camels back is not the sexism. He's been plenty sexist and psychopathic. It's because he disparaged a white woman and Paul Ryan, et al, could finally not stand for THAT.
posted by Sophie1 at 5:58 AM on October 8, 2016 [38 favorites]

Over the last couple of days I've been checking out 538.com a lot more frequently and it never fails to cheer me up.
posted by TedW at 6:00 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

Important to note: the Trump Dump (this video) pushes aside the Wikileaks material on Hillary and her corporate speeches and hypocrisy.

"Saying the same things she was telling everyone else back in 2008-2014" is kind of the opposite of hypocrisy. A lot of what she said back then was the reason a lot of us voted for Bernie.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:01 AM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]

There are no skeletons in the closet IF THE ENTIRE HOUSE IS MADE OF SKELETONS.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:03 AM on October 8, 2016 [156 favorites]

It's not a knockout blow because, as will be argued from coast to coast, Hillary is married to a well-documented chronic pussyhound and accused rapist and therefore, at worst this is a push on disqualifying sexism.

Whether or not Bill ever crossed the line between piggish sexual conquest and rape, to whatever degree, is debatable. Hopefully not in this thread lest many posts vanish abruptly. The point is that Trump's base will either (a) not see anything all that wrong about the women of the world being merely a smorgasbord for men to pick from or (b) find ways to rationalize to themselves how The Supreme Court Is More Important and Bill Clinton Was Worse and It's A Small Price To Pay To Keep All Guns From Being Seized And The Constitution Shat Upon And We'll All Be Murdered In Our Beds.
posted by delfin at 6:04 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

I suppose nobody likes to admit that they've been conned.
And Donald Trump is, more than anything else, a con man. He figured out the themes to appeal to the most gullible members of the U.S. population, who are overwhelmingly white males, made extravagant promises with zero details on how to accomplish them (although his persistence in the Border Wall makes me believe he has a specific plan to profit personally from anything that gets built) and doubled down with themes of frustration, despair and anger, while being open in his bigotry like few successful politicians before him to get the reputation of "saying what we're all thinking". Well, his constituency DOESN'T think, and so they cannot be expected to think better of what they're doing.

If there's anything that may shake the confidence in the not-deplorable-just-dumb Trumpists, it would be to show how much some of New York's most elite organizations did to prop up this serial-business-failure and contribute to his past cons. But I doubt the concept could fit into their small brains. If I ever wanted to make a lot of money dishonestly, all I'd need would be a database of the Trump for President contributors. A basket of suckers.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:05 AM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]

It's not a knockout blow because, as will be argued from coast to coast, Hillary is married to a well-documented chronic pussyhound and accused rapist and therefore, at worst this is a push on disqualifying sexism.

Here's the beautiful beautiful thing though: Trump has absolutely zero high ground now on launching the "BUT YOU MARRIED A SEX DOG RAPIST" assault on Hillary. If this is guys bein' guys, this is guys bein' guys, amirite?

I mean, for god's sake, his initial "defense" to this before his PR machine stepped in was "BILL CLINTON SAID EVEN WORSE THINGS WHEN WE USED TO HANG OUT PLAYING GOLF ALL THE TIME OK."
posted by blue suede stockings at 6:08 AM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]

A basket of suckers.

Well, ain't that America.

This is what you get when you carefully train 100 million people over a period of decades to respond Pavlovianly to the cult of celebrity, populist appeals and finely tuned messages of the day.
posted by delfin at 6:09 AM on October 8, 2016 [27 favorites]

All of this stuff analyzing this from the horse-race perspective, all of the stuff like dis_integration's link in which some GOP insiders smirk that "[o]ur politics is tribal and polarized. So it's not like this swings the thing 10 points.,” all of it....

It is the very picture of a culture in denial, of rape culture refusing to recognize itself in the mirror.

This may be the inflection point for the election. I am very afraid that it will not be the much-needed inflection point at which people en masse start to think about how we got this sort of a candidate, about how all of this seems to be tied together to an entrenched ideological formation that immiserates our present and will kill our future.

This is going to become "one bad actor/apple," and where that doesn't work, a quick oscillation to "sure, but it's perfectly normal." When #notallmen or #notallpolice or #notallbanksters or whatever doesn't work, then the oscillation back to "it's just the way of politics, boys will be boys, well he seemed dangerously black, the market is wiser than we know" happens.

Our society has gotten so good at that, at keeping two mutually exclusive rationalizations in play. Because the alternative would hard and difficult, the way the right thing always is when all you know is the wrong thing.
posted by kewb at 6:10 AM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]

It's because he disparaged a white woman and Paul Ryan, et al, could finally not stand for THAT.

Again, I think it's really important to push back on this. It's not "disparagement", it's not "lewd comments", it's not "sexism", it's not "locker room talk".

It's a man admitting to sexually assaulting women and saying it's okay because they probably liked it because he was powerful.
posted by corb at 6:11 AM on October 8, 2016 [258 favorites]

Something that has been striking me more and more, a divide between "celebrity culture" and simple decency. Go ahead, look at TMZ and tell me that people with money, celebrity or other power don't assume anyone who interacts with them is out for what they can get and is free for the taking. Donald Trump has been moving in those ethereal circles for a very long time.
posted by Peach at 6:12 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Bringing this comment over from the previous thread:

So basically, the RNC can replace him, but the GOP would have to accept a lot of negative consequences in order to do so.

This is exactly what we heard at the convention, and it never happened. Has this latest "revelation" about Trump really changed anything in that regard?

None of this should have been a surprise to the GOP. He was a known quantity. They already accepted "a lot of negative consequences" just putting him on the ticket.

The GOP is in a self-made hole so deep that nothing they do now will change that.
posted by zakur at 6:12 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

> I was thinking of overwriting "Make America Great Again" with "Grab America By The Pussy".

Have at it. Random strangers won't necessarily recognize your irony, though.
posted by at by at 6:13 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

Those of us who lived through the Rob Ford era in Toronto recognize that history is repeating itself. Welcome to the Crack Tape moment. It's sort of combined with Ford's "plenty to eat at home" moment, which also prominently featured the word pussy.

Ford kept soldiering on, and his popularity sank only slightly. You couldn't end him politically, just chip away from his popularity. The donors dried up and his media appologists got a bit quieter. Over his 4 year term of unbelievably bad governance, he went from the mid 40's to about 25% in the polls. That was it. So it will be with Trump.

Also, what's up with Wikileaks? The timing of their dump yesterday is absurd. They are political, and bad at it. It seems like they pulled forward their October surprise to try to counter this tape, and it failed horribly.
posted by thenormshow at 6:13 AM on October 8, 2016 [37 favorites]

You know, women have locker rooms too, and we talk in them. I did jiu jitsu for a while and in the locker room we'd talk about which men weren't safe to roll with as a woman because they didn't like getting beaten by girls even in practice when we're all learning so they'd go really hard against you. They were so angry at the possibility that you might be better or stronger than they were that they'd use more force than was appropriate in the class. Thanks to the other women there, there were men with whom I learned not to roll because it was potentially dangerous. It must be fun to use the locker room to talk about how you can get whatever you want with no repercussions instead of needing to use it to trade information important for your safety! I think I would enjoy that much more! Unfortunately, here we all are where he gets to talk about women as things while women (including me) have to talk about how to protect ourselves. It's not as much fun!
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 6:13 AM on October 8, 2016 [263 favorites]

I do feel bad for Tic-Tacs getting their name dragged into this.
posted by TedW at 6:14 AM on October 8, 2016 [30 favorites]

Speaking of Paul Ryan (warning: creepy-ass picture of the zombie-eyed granny-starver himself)...

@saladinahmed: WOMEN SHOULD NOT BE OBJECTIFIED THEY SHOULD BE CHERISHED AND KEPT IN GLASS COFFINS THAT SMELL OF LILACS UNTIL THE BREEDING MONTHS ARRIVE
posted by zombieflanders at 6:15 AM on October 8, 2016 [75 favorites]

Tic Tacs are having the opposite of a Red Lobster moment right now.
posted by middleclasstool at 6:15 AM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

Mod note: A couple deleted. Folks, let's step back a bit from the gross genitalia / rapey jokes, please. I understand it's sort of the weird, bouncing off the wall giddiness of the moment, but people still need to be able to read this thread without serious distress.
posted by taz (staff) at 6:16 AM on October 8, 2016 [23 favorites]

Trump has absolutely zero high ground now on launching the "BUT YOU MARRIED A SEX DOG RAPIST" assault on Hillary.

He never did. Even a casual observer of Trump over the years knew he was a sleazeball, hence the evangelicals' constant response to cries of hypocrisy of We Are Not Voting For Who He Is But For What He Will Do In Office.

The point is that this will shore up Hillary's numbers amongst reasonable people _but they were already not voting for him_. And yet the big election remains close.
posted by delfin at 6:16 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

I want the Trump name to be destroyed. No more developing real estate, no more selling naming rights for buildings, driven towards bankruptcy. And I want those chucklefuck sons to be forced to work forward-facing customer service jobs at a carpet warehouse, forever mocked about their shitty family name, never able to afford another goddamn hunting safari.

Was saying to my Dad last night that I want all of them, especially Trump to fall to the point where he has to fix his own toilet and mow his own lawn. Basically have to to do their own mundane chores because there is no one else. If prison doesn't happen this is the next best scenario for me.
posted by Jalliah at 6:16 AM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]

A reminder to not get complacent. Sure victory + low voter turnout + "I'm making a statement with my vote!" = Brexit. Don't quit. Get out the vote. Make it a landslide.
posted by bluecore at 6:17 AM on October 8, 2016 [151 favorites]

I do feel bad for Tic-Tacs getting their name dragged into this.

I can't remember where (Twitter?) but I saw somebody joking that somewhere the Tic Tacs social media guy was getting ready to roll out for the weekend when suddenly...
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:17 AM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]

Probably the only thing keeping this from being a knockout blow is Future First Husband Bill's bad reputation. (As well as the only thing preventing a real sea change in thinking about Rape Culture) But the downward trend is just reinforced by this, and the more Trump "fights back", the worse he's going to look because he has zero skill in dealing with any situation where he isn't dominant.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:18 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Get out the vote. Make it a landslide.

Yes, this. Vote, vote, vote. Don't stay home and don't take anything for granted. Offer rides to others who might need them. Get out the vote.
posted by frumiousb at 6:21 AM on October 8, 2016 [28 favorites]

Don't quit. Get out the vote. Make it a landslide.
With downticket victories too. The Clinton campaign (with all its MeFite volunteers) is doing that right. But they/we have to keep up the work on November 9th, when the campaign for the 2018 mid-terms start.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:24 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

This is not, I imagine, how the GOP hoped America would forget about his tax returns.

2016: the Monkey's Paw election.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 6:24 AM on October 8, 2016 [34 favorites]

the Tic Tacs social media guy

America, in a pellet.
posted by spitbull at 6:25 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

This is exactly what we heard at the convention, and it never happened. Has this latest "revelation" about Trump really changed anything in that regard?

Yes and no. So, #NeverTrump has been struggling on - limping, really - over the last month, continuing to try, in what we all believed was probably a futile effort but had to be done, to get rid of Trump on a variety of fronts. The two that had the most potential to be promising -if, again, unlikely - were:
1) criminal and civil charges for the election interference that happened in Cleveland, with white supremacists showing up to hotel rooms, etc.
2) Getting at least 16 RNC members, from at least 16 different states, to call for invoking Rule 9, to force a meeting over whether or not Trump should be ruled otherwise unfit to continue as the nominee, and a new nominee called.

We've already been doing the work on that and had some RNC members from some different states. I'm ashamed that we couldn't clear the bar previously, but judging from reports from #NeverTrumpers in our other states, enough RNC members are appalled at this to possibly clear the bar. Now again, you guys who have been following all the megathreads will remember what they did in the Roll Call Vote issue - the RNC is not beyond ignoring petitions, saying various signatures don't count for whatever reason, etc. But it's a tool in the hands of the RNC that they could use if they wanted to.

Now, what the RNC as a body will do, and what Priebus and Ryan will allow to happen, are speculations outside my base of knowledge. Some of us are trying to keep pressure on them, but they've ignored our pressure before. So I don't know, but it's very well possible.

As has been said in previous threads, for a variety of reasons, if the RNC replaced Trump, they would likely not be able to replace him on all ballots, and without faithless electors, they would have no possible route to 270 electoral votes. However, I think it's important that we replace him anyway - that nowhere in our history books is Donald Trump winning a single elector - to say that you cannot brag about sexual assault and be appointed to the highest office in the land anymore. I think even if you would prefer other statements to have been that line in the sand, having this be the thing that knocks him out is a good thing and a serious blow to rape culture.
posted by corb at 6:27 AM on October 8, 2016 [92 favorites]

corb: It's a man admitting to sexually assaulting women and saying it's okay because they probably liked it because he was powerful.

And it's great that voting for this man for president is finally a red line not to be crossed for some. The sad thing is that for the great majority of Republicans and more than 40% of the total population, this is not a red line and they will still vote for him.
posted by sour cream at 6:27 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

I imagine that every TV show that has ever featured Trump is going through their archives right now looking for more.
posted by humanfont at 6:30 AM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]

I agree that racism and xenophobia plays into why this video, rather than his earlier disgusting statements, is the one that finally sinks Trump. But it's also because of some things specific to the video:

- he is not just talking about his vile thoughts, he is acting them out on camera on a specific woman (he steps off the bus and it's as if he and Billy Bush are running through a demonstration of the rapey stuff they were just discussing); and

- this video predates the birther movement and his run for President, and is over "hot mic," so there is no argument that he's just pandering for voters or making these remarks as part of his tv show persona.

It is way way too simplistic to claim this one blew up because people care about white women.
posted by sallybrown at 6:31 AM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]

...or (b) find ways to rationalize to themselves how The Supreme Court Is More Important and Bill Clinton Was Worse and It's A Small Price To Pay To Keep All Guns From Being Seized And The Constitution Shat Upon And We'll All Be Murdered In Our Beds.

Henry Blake: The father dying, right?

Klinger: Yes, sir.

Henry Blake: [takes out a stack of papers and reads them] Father dying last year. Mother dying last year. Mother AND father dying. Mother, father, and older sister dying. Mother dying and older sister pregnant. Older sister dying and mother pregnant. Younger sister pregnant and older sister dying. Here's an oldie but a goodie: Half of the family dying, other half pregnant.

posted by jon1270 at 6:32 AM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]

for the great majority of Republicans and more than 40% of the total population, this is not a red line and they will still vote for him.

I don't know about this. For those of you who don't have a lot of Republicans on your timeline, even a lot of former Trump supporters are turning and saying they refuse to vote for him, that he must resign. One of my cousins of my father's generation had an epic flaming meltdown, where he talked about wanting his donation money back and how Trump had polluted the Republican Party. There is a lot of fury. Republicans are talking about how he is a predator and must be denied the White House. Evangelicals are finding this sickening.

Now, what will happen when a week goes by and Trump refuses to resign? That I don't know. But right now, at least, I genuinely do not believe that a majority of Republicans want to vote for him. People are talking - people who weren't talking before - about staying home if he is the nominee. And that's good news. That's really great news. What he did to women is terrible, but the fact that people are disgusted by it, all around, is one of the things that's really giving me hope right now.
posted by corb at 6:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [91 favorites]

When this news broke at 4:00 yesterday I was on MetaFilter and I didn't even bother clicking on the link. Instead I read about the Trump Taj Mahal closing and went on to make a comment about ad buys! Really. I've read so much about the guy and his rapes and near rapes I didn't think too much about the story-- I just figured it was another "Oh Donald is in another Playboy Porno" Ho Hum.

I did finally watch the video. I know various women have weighed in on the particular part that made them uncomfortable but for me it came at the end. The hostess is asked by Bush "If you had to pick one of us, who would you date?" and the poor woman put on the spot says first, "I plead the fifth." She must have realized that sounded too dismissive so she added, "I would date both of you." Ugh. Been there. This is something every woman runs up against at some point, having to appease and sound sweet while turning down a pass. You need to be sweet because turning someone down can have serious consequences-- socially, professionally, and even physically. If you don't stroke the guy's ego you can get labeled a cock tease, get fired, and even get raped. Always best to let them down easy.

This just emphasizes why Trump cannot get within even smelling distance of the White House. You think he won't use his power to kiss more women against their will? Or worse?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [94 favorites]

Republican politicians are shocked, SHOCKED by this recording... because Trump is losing badly and they want to distance themselves from their abominable creation. If he still had a 50% chance of winning this would be "political correctness gone mad". It's all meaningless unless they say categorically they won't be voting for him.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [41 favorites]

more than 40% of the total population

In other words, a little less than half deplorables, as Hillary said.

Heard a Trump surrogate accidentally refer to the leaked comments as "deplorable" (in the process of minimizing them, so "deplorable, BUT boys will be boys" etc.) and catch herself in time to change it to "unfortunate" or something with a look on her face that Bostonians of my salad days sometimes referred to as "Dawn Rise on Marble Head (sic)."

You gotta say it in a Southie accent for it to work.
posted by spitbull at 6:34 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

Ford kept soldiering on, and his popularity sank only slightly. You couldn't end him politically, just chip away from his popularity. The donors dried up and his media appologists got a bit quieter. Over his 4 year term of unbelievably bad governance, he went from the mid 40's to about 25% in the polls. That was it. So it will be with Trump.

A few differences. Ford was elected, after all. He was a mayor, not the PM or president. Plus, from what I understand, Ford was quite skilled at retail politics, going so far as to visit his constituents personally if someone told him they needed his help. Especially on that last part, Trump has no retail politics game, and he doesn't go out of his way to help people, nor have there been any such stories from the campaign. There's a reason Ford's constituency was so devoted, IIRC, and it wasn't just because he was a misogynist, racist trainwreck.
posted by krinklyfig at 6:35 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

Something that has been striking me more and more, a divide between "celebrity culture" and simple decency.

I don't know about that, but didn't the GOP lash out at Obama in 2008 for being a "celebrity candidate"? The big irony, of course, is that Obama wasn't a celebrity at all. Before his presidential run and outside his constituency, he was only known to a few politics geeks. If that made him a celebrity, then Washington is full of "celebrity" politicians. By contrast, Trump has "celebrity" written all over him, but for some reason, that didn't keep the GOP from making him their candidate. And it's not his celebrity status they're worried about, but rather whether he is controllable or not. - Of course, noone would have expected anyone else from those hypocrites, but it would be nice to have this hypocrisy called out a bit more.
posted by sour cream at 6:36 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

I suppose nobody likes to admit that they've been conned.

Exactly so and they double down.

The Trump supporters I know are not going to say anything negative about Trump. Not to get too far into it, but the people I'm speaking of are the same people who will apologize for throwing the gravy boat against the wall on Thanksgiving with, "If you hadn't made me so angry, I wouldn't have done it."

Personal responsibility and accepting blame are not in the wheelhouses of the Trump supporters I know. You will never hear them say they were wrong.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 6:37 AM on October 8, 2016 [22 favorites]

One of the top talking points from evangelical leaders excusing his behavior is that it doesn't matter because that Hillary supports Obama's Iran nuclear deal. And of course they support the candidate that is in favor of giving Saudi Arabia -- y'know, the country most strongly associated with 9/11 -- nuclear weapons.

I've got FB "friends" that are trained to parrot these talking points like Mr. Ed adding two numbers, it's sickening.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:37 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

wasn't just because he was a misogynist, racist trainwreck.

It was because he was THEIR misogynist, racist trainwreck!

Mutatis mutandis, the Deplorables.
posted by spitbull at 6:37 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

Advertising Age: What Did Tic Tacs Do to Deserve Donald Trump?!
--
@chrisfholm: "Meanwhile, at Tic Tac HQ:

"Guys! It's finally happened! We're trending!"

"Really? Why?"

"Hang on; I'll click through. OH, SON OF A...""
posted by zarq at 6:37 AM on October 8, 2016 [74 favorites]

I imagine that every TV show that has ever featured Trump is going through their archives right now looking for more.

What did Jeff "Corey Lewandowski has done a great job" Zucker and Les "“It may not be good for America, but it’s damn good for CBS" Moonves know, and how long have they known it?
posted by zombieflanders at 6:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

With how poorly he dealt with Macado, what are the chances of him just endlessly bringing it up for the next week? I can even see him randomly mentioning it in the town hall when *not* asked about it.
posted by Trifling at 6:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

I don't know about that, but didn't the GOP lash out at Obama in 2008 for being a "celebrity candidate"?

Oh yeah, one of the funniest GOP attacks on Obama was the one that boiled down to "running somebody likeable and popular, who isn't a bitter, hate-consumed white supremacist psycopath, is cheating!"
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [34 favorites]

> ...for the great majority of Republicans and more than 40% of the total population, this is not a red line and they will still vote for him.

Less than 40% of adult citizens of the United States are white male. Even allowing generous assumptions regarding people who aren't white men, I find it difficult to believe they can crack 40%.

This is not an argument for complacency (get out and vote, people!). It's an argument that there's something wrong with the head count.
posted by at by at 6:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

People are talking - people who weren't talking before - about staying home if he is the nominee.

If they don't vote for him it's good news; if they stay home then the entire GOP downballot is in flames.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:41 AM on October 8, 2016 [35 favorites]

And now a message on Trump from BRIAN BLESSED. [real]
posted by zombieflanders at 6:41 AM on October 8, 2016 [50 favorites]

Impeach the Cheeto!
posted by clavdivs at 6:43 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

The big difference between this and his other attacks is in how specific and graphic it is. The racism is always slightly, if barely, coded. The misogyny he could pass off as "entertainment."

This is the first time we've had something that is just too plain vile to be denied or joked about.

I feel for Hillary having to debate this creature on Sunday.
posted by kanewai at 6:43 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

This is all beyond disturbing. I have been planning to vote for Hillary all along full disclosure.

The part that is getting me though is that I don't know why I'm not feeling more upset about this?
I would love to think that this will end him, but the larger part of me feels sad because it won't stop him. He will still win the election.

Perhaps I'm not more upset because this is the shit I'm forced to screen out and ignore every damn day as a woman.
This is the pack of construction workers shouting lewd things at me as I walk to the train on my way to work.
This is the odd man on the train saying what horrible things he wants to do to me as I try to ignore him while sipping my coffee and it's not even 8am yet.
These are the "colleagues" at work who interrupt and mansplain and make remarks that raise eyebrows in the conference room and then over lunch.
This is the dude at the bar talking to his buddy just a little too loudly about how "she must be a lesbian" because she wouldn't sleep with him and she was just a six anyway.
This is the past abusive relationship I was in who now mouths off to everyone that will listen to him that men don't have rights and he shouldn't have spent a night in jail because he beat the crap out of me.
This is every guy who claims I'm being too sensitive and blowing things out of proportion.

Perhaps I'm not more upset because this is the reality that I experience as a woman all damn day. I'm frustrated and saddened because to me it feels like he will just get away with this one too, and probably will.
posted by floweredfish at 6:44 AM on October 8, 2016 [95 favorites]

I'm currently living with a small community of catholic nuns in a small african village, volunteering at a health center. Which is hilarious for an american agnostic gay guy, but I digress.

I've recently had a lot of political discussions with the nuns, as much as I'm able to by meeting them in the middle between my bad kinyarwanda and their bad english. They are really knowledgeable and engaged about the american election, surprisingly so.

Recently at a dinner together I confessed to my boss, a 50-ish, stout, Cameroonian woman, "I'm a little afraid of Trump."

She patted my arm. "We're all afraid of Trump."
posted by Rinku at 6:45 AM on October 8, 2016 [192 favorites]

Any bets that Sunday's town hall debate figures will be north of 100 million? How's the prep going, Donald?
posted by Devonian at 6:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

4 out of 5 Pick-up Artists recommend Tic Tac breath mints to their victims.
posted by mikelieman at 6:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

His attempts at apologies are surreal.

They seem entirely too real if you imagine them coming from a serial abuser addressing his long-suffering victim.

"I've never said I'm a perfect person…" starts out with resetting expectations. The brief apology - "I was wrong, and I apologize." - is gotten out of the way with quickly and then dropped. The promise to change is just what everyone wants to hear: "I pledge to be a better man tomorrow and will never ever let you down." But next comes the switch to negate all this - "Let's be honest: we're living in the real world. This is nothing more than a distraction…" (and then come the distractions) - because the abuser isn't sorry, this is who he really is, and nothing's going to change.
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [75 favorites]

Trump is haunting my TV. Still trying to figure out what happened. My TV has chromecast and not hooked up to any other outside source. It was off, my laptop was off. Lying in bed this am, just waking up and suddenly TV pops on and it's Trump apology 'I traveled the country...."

wTF! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! TURN IT OFF.

So I get up and Dad is in his room with his phone. Dad are you watching the apology? He says yes. Okay that explains part of it. Were you fiddling with chromecast Dad? What is chromecast? Okay I thought, he doesn't know how things work and must have accidentally done it somehow. I can live with that.

This does not explain how my TV turned on though.

Life is weird.
posted by Jalliah at 6:48 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

>> for the great majority of Republicans and more than 40% of the total population, this is not a red line and they will still vote for him.

> I don't know about this. For those of you who don't have a lot of Republicans on your timeline, even a lot of former Trump supporters are turning and saying they refuse to vote for him, that he must resign.

I suppose we'll know for sure in a month.

Also, I guess that "majority of Republicans" is difficult to quantify and verify, so to phrase this differently: My guess is that Trump will get between 85 and 90% of the votes that Romney got. To me that would be the overwhelmingly large majority of Republicans.
posted by sour cream at 6:48 AM on October 8, 2016

Sunday night:

"Mr. Trump, the recent video released to the media has raised serious concerns regarding your views towards women. How would you respond to those who question your leadership qualities?"

"Benghazi!"
posted by davebush at 6:48 AM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

Donald Trump is surprisingly good at dancing the limbo.
posted by srboisvert at 6:50 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

There is a Trump branded tower going up in Vancouver - that is close to completion. Every bit of Trump signage is covered in tarp. The developers know that the signage will be attacked and defaced. The building was going up before the election - and what started out as mild irritation and confusion over the name, will turn into active disgust and anger. It's like a big stamp on our skyline that says "Yay Rape Culture". I can't tell you how fucking... jeez, i can't even find the words...

Anyone who votes for Trump - has got to admit to themselves that not only are they a racist and misogynist - but that they are willing to be complicit in rape and sexual assault. This is not just turning away and ignoring a crime going on right in front of you. This is you cheering and high fiving your buddies from the sideline as a woman is assaulted. It's absolutely sickening.
posted by helmutdog at 6:51 AM on October 8, 2016 [24 favorites]

In, Roundup From Republican Twitter,

@SenatorKirk (Mark Kirk, of Illinois) -@realDonaldTrump should drop out. @GOP should engage rules for emergency replacement.

Apparently in the middle of this insane nonsense, the Trump team sent out texts to supporters asking for debate advice on "What should Mr. Trump focus on?". Many - I don't know who originated this - are sending in, "He should focus on not grabbing them by the pussy."

@JonahNRO I'm now actively worried that @smod2016 will be so disgusted he'll just veer straight into the sun just to avoid getting any Earth on him.

Evan McMullin is of course making hay while the sun shines - telling people that there is no other viable Republican candidate except him. I'm honestly somewhat disgusted he is not also calling for Trump to withdraw from the ticket or be replaced - kind of naked self interest, which is against the Noble Look he's trying to go for.

There's also some rumours going around - no clue how serious - that Pence and his wife are beyond livid and he is investigating resigning from the ticket.
posted by corb at 6:51 AM on October 8, 2016 [34 favorites]

The VIne of Ana Navarro's CNN co-panelists reacting to her first use of "pussy" is pretty amazing. Embedded in this tweet from Seth Abramovitch. Fair warning: put down your coffee and finish your current mouthful first.
posted by spitbull at 6:52 AM on October 8, 2016 [44 favorites]

Donnie's tactic of pivoting to an attack on Clinton works great in the echo chambers of his rallies and r/T..._D..., but when Clinton is sitting there staring at you, and has a chance for rebuttal, not so much.
posted by mikelieman at 6:52 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

This does not explain how my TV turned on though.

[tech aside - some TVs can be turned on through the HDMI connector if a connected device sends them the right signal. Or it could be evil goblins.]
posted by Devonian at 6:53 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

It's grotesque that suddenly republicans are shocked enough to make noises about repudiating Trump when we've known this was what he was all along. The only difference is that now it's on video.

So they were fine with it when there wasn't video evidence, but now it can't be dismissed it's appalling. Moral bankruptcy.
posted by winna at 6:54 AM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]

So those of you who still have roots and/or ties to the evangelical/born again Christians, if Trump were to do one of those big teary tv evangelist apologies and then do a come to jesus, beg for forgiveness stunt would that work in regards to your family/friends?

My read is that some people would actually see it for what it is and reject him but a sizable percentage would eat that up. Because fundamentally people seem to like a redemption story and a big part of the theology is about being saved when you accept Jesus.

But do Evangelicals have differing standards, i.e is behavior that in theory Jesus can forgive actually forgivable to voter? Or would it actually disqualify him for President in their minds?
posted by vuron at 6:54 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Pence is really screwed by this. He obviously saw this as setup for his 2020 run, and Donnie has just blown any advantage he thought he was giving himself in that regard. Resigning from the ticket might be one way to save himself, but that leaves the GOP nobody but Trump. I don't think there is any way they can get new blood on the ticket, certainly not in all 50 states and most likely not in any of them at this point. And I don't think a write-in campaign would ever work at a national level.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:55 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

I feel for Hillary having to debate this creature on Sunday.

Oh I dunno, I hope she uses that line from the SNL cold open:

--How do you feel about that, Senator?

--I feel like I'm going to be president.
posted by chavenet at 6:55 AM on October 8, 2016 [33 favorites]

some TVs can be turned on through the HDMI connector if a connected device sends them the right signaL

Ok, Alex, what is "things Bill Gates might be caught saying on a hot mic and be misconstrued?"
posted by spitbull at 6:56 AM on October 8, 2016 [28 favorites]

It's fascinating seeing which media orgs have quoted the video verbatim and which have interspersed asterisks, dashes, etc.

What I find more telling is the framing. The media who are merely calling it "lewd" vs. those who are calling it "sexual assault". Because the former are perpetuating the environment that lets men get away with that kind of behavior.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:56 AM on October 8, 2016 [48 favorites]

People are talking - people who weren't talking before - about staying home if he is the nominee. And that's good news. That's really great news. What he did to women is terrible, but the fact that people are disgusted by it, all around, is one of the things that's really giving me hope right now

It's encouraging, and if they stay home it'll be bad for down-ticket stuff, but honestly I think that's mostly rhetoric and what many will do is vote Johnson or vote Trump and never ever admit it.

What I find really disturbing is that voting for the candidate best equipped to stop him, the one with a lifetime of public service who has extended her hand to these republican voters despite a quarter century of abuse, the —hey, while we're all disgusted about misogyny—actual woman candidate, is flat-out not an option for them.

So I feel you, but I have a hard time giving out high fives about this or believing that principle is overriding party loyalty here.
posted by middleclasstool at 6:56 AM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]

[tech aside - some TVs can be turned on through the HDMI connector if a connected device sends them the right signal. Or it could be evil goblins.]

:D Well I have to assume it's something like that but it sure was it creepy.
posted by Jalliah at 6:56 AM on October 8, 2016

Pence is really screwed by this. He obviously saw this as setup for his 2020 run, and Donnie has just blown any advantage he thought he was giving himself in that regard. Resigning from the ticket might be one way to save himself, but that leaves the GOP nobody but Trump. I don't think there is any way they can get new blood on the ticket, certainly not in all 50 states and most likely not in any of them at this point. And I don't think a write-in campaign would ever work at a national level.

"Please welcome your new Republican Vice Presidential candidate, Paul Manafort!"
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:56 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

Is Donald Trump the High Plains Drifter of US Politics?
posted by ph00dz at 6:58 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Look folks, I know Trump should have been disqualified and rejected for being a creep from the get-go, but here's the thing: He was, right away, by the majority of people. He's the most disliked major-party candidate since polling began. In a GOP year against a widely disliked candidate, he has been losing consistently.

There is a big red "reject" button the public can hit: It's in the voting booth. In the meantime, there is nothing the majority of voters can do except say: "We can't stand that guy." And that's what most of them in fact say.

And yes, the reports of Trump's behavior should have been taken seriously, of course. But we all know, or can imagine, what we would do with secondhand, printed reports about a candidate we're trying to like: We'd dismiss them. This tape has Donald Trump's face and voice and unequivocal expressions of predatory behavior, with laughter added.

That is how political scandals work. You need the tape, the direct evidence, the physical experience of the candidate saying it and doing it.

The response to Donald Trump has not been shockingly wrong overall. This is what a correctly-functioning country looks like (but Republicans have some explaining to do).
posted by argybarg at 6:58 AM on October 8, 2016 [23 favorites]

"Please welcome your new Republican Vice Presidential candidate, Paul Manafort!"

I hear Roger Ailes is looking for work.
posted by jferg at 6:58 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

this entire election cycle His attempts at apologies are is surreal.
posted by Fizz at 6:59 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

This whole thing sort of reminds me of the Seinfeld where jerry's love interest gets him to talk dirty and he busts out, "You mean the panties your mother laid out for you?" The GOP base has been enthralled with Trump talking dirty to them, but this particular line is just a biiiiiiiiit too sketchy and bizarre.
posted by codacorolla at 6:59 AM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]

I don't think the Republicans need to get a new name on the ballot. We aren't voting for the name on the ballot. We are voting for the elector who goes to the electoral college meeting in December and votes for the person represented by the name on the ballot. Trump's name can be on the ballot but they can cast the vote for Pence, or Rubio, or whoever may get conned into taking one for the team.

Now, I can't imagine how they explain that to people that have only a vague sense of how voting works in the first place.
posted by COD at 7:00 AM on October 8, 2016

yes I said yes I will Yes: How are people shocked by this? This is exactly how I imagined he behaved in private.

at by: Evidence is better than speculation.

Exactly - until you have someone on record, at length, saying something, they and their supporters can say "you had to be there, it wasn't that bad," or "this is all taken out of context," or "he was just joking around."

But there is no joking. There is no humor. This is serious, and that's why there are serious repercussions now instead of earlier.

For any supporters who say he's apologized, he hasn't. The first time was "I'm sorry if you are a wimp and were hurt by my words" (paraphrased), the video was "I'm sorry about things I said" and he never addressed those things, or apologized to the recipient of those words, and then he pivoted to attack Hillary and Bill Clinton.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:01 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

There's also some rumours going around - no clue how serious - that Pence and his wife are beyond livid and he is investigating resigning from the ticket.

Sorry buddy, you hitched your wagon to this guy, and now that he's flown to close to the sun, you deserve to go down with the ship.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:01 AM on October 8, 2016 [43 favorites]

Well, Bill Clinton issued a long, tearful apology, and all was forgiven, right?
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:02 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

It's hard not to see the Trump-Clinton election as manifestation of Feminism vs Misogyny/Patriarchy, of acceptance and/or celebration of diversity vs racism/religious prejudice, etc.

It's like there are two humans on the ballot but those humans are fundamentally stand-ins for much bigger, much more potent forces struggling to shape the future of our nation.

It's actually pretty amazing and honestly I'm pretty damned happy to have Hillary be the personification of values that I hold near and dear to my heart. I'm also saddened that the forces of conservatism have chosen such a crappy champion but one who also best personifies the negative aspects of conservatism and patriarchy.
posted by vuron at 7:04 AM on October 8, 2016 [41 favorites]

Trump's name can be on the ballot but they can cast the vote for Pence, or Rubio, or whoever may get conned into taking one for the team.

If they try that their own base will stay home and they won't get 100 EV's to cast for their write-in.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:06 AM on October 8, 2016

if Trump were to do one of those big teary tv evangelist apologies and then do a come to jesus, beg for forgiveness stunt would that work in regards to your family/friends?

This is so completely the opposite of who Trump is and beyond what he is capable of, what is the point of gameplanning for it? Republicans have been engaged in the same kind of magical thinking for 18 months now. He is a 70 year old man with a personality disorder and he is not going to suddenly become something he is not. He is not going to apologize sincerely. He certainly isn't going to cry. And he certainly isn't going to let some dumb preacher get the one-up on him.

I said this about six months in one of these big threads, but one thing this election is likely to do is destroy Trump's reputation, name, and brand. Predictions that he will have wished he never ran for President are looking prescient, and I am now happily imagining his children pacing anxiously, watching as the business they had hoped to inheritance crumbles beneath them. He will lose the election and he will be toxic. Much of the income of his businesses comes from the licensing of his name -- when that name is garbage, those businesses will fail.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 7:06 AM on October 8, 2016 [49 favorites]

Saw this joke the other day...

A guy looking for a fight walks into a biker bar and shouts, "Donald Trump is an asshole."

The biggest guys in the bar gets in his face and warns him, "You better watch what you say around here."

"Why? Are you a Trump supporter?"

"No, I'm an asshole."


Via Slate: "Said Trump to the Post: “This was locker room banter, a private conversation that took place many years ago. Bill Clinton has said far worse to me on the golf course—not even close. I apologize if anyone was offended.”"

The guy is playing golf with Bill Fucking Clinton!

Anyone want to lay some odds on who will win?
posted by marienbad at 7:08 AM on October 8, 2016 [33 favorites]

For any supporters who say he's apologized, he hasn't. The first time was "I'm sorry if you are a wimp and were hurt by my words" (paraphrased), the video was "I'm sorry about things I said" and he never addressed those things, or apologized to the recipient of those words, and then he pivoted to attack Hillary and Bill Clinton.

I think that last point bears repeating: The "apology" video was remarkable, but not so much for the lack of enthusiasm or the unsurprising attack an the Clintons, but rather for all the things that he didn't say.

He didn't say, "I never raped a woman."
He didn't say, "I never touched a woman's genitalia against her will."
He didn't say, "I never kissed a woman against her will."

He just apologized for the words he used, but he didn't deny doing any of those things that he boasted about. I also think that is a point that should be pressed in future interviews.
posted by sour cream at 7:08 AM on October 8, 2016 [83 favorites]

If I ever wanted to make a lot of money dishonestly, all I'd need would be a database of the Trump for President contributors. A basket of suckers.

Not to spit in the schadenfreude pie, but this has probably been Trump's plan from the start (notwithstanding his diversion into actually trying to win the thing, once it seemed possible that he could), and there's no particular reason to believe that he couldn't still. His model in this is, of all people, Sarah Palin, who, even though she not only did irreparable damage to her own reputation as a politician, not to mention put a stake through the heart of McCain's campaign, turned her enduring support from a chunk of the GOP electorate who related to her smug ignorance and relentless Obama-baiting into a tidy post-elected-office career; if anything, her alienation from the political mainstream helped cement their loyalty (although that may be fading, finally). Sadly, he will probably find a way to monetize this pose-election while the rest of the country is still feeling relief from having dodged that bullet.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:09 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

if Trump were to do one of those big teary tv evangelist apologies and then do a come to jesus, beg for forgiveness stunt would that work in regards to your family/friends?

Robert Duvall's character from the Apostle could baptise Trump in the Mississippi in front of millions and he still wouldn't be able to make it seem sincere and heartfelt. He's heartless. He can't pull off the connecting-with-other-human-beings thing because he doesn't connect with them.
posted by dis_integration at 7:09 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

I agree that Trump would be exceedingly unlikely to stage such a stunt since he's a complete asshole with no sense of morality but a fundamental need to look like the "Alpha" so while it might regain him some voters it would also probably cost him among his Alt-Right "anti-cuckservative" /pol/bro fanbase.
posted by vuron at 7:10 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

And just after I wrote that comment, I see this in my Twitter feed: Fashion blogger @CapHillStyle bans Ivanka Trump clothing on her site per her Insta, "will not support misogyny"

Good riddance to all you Trumps.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 7:10 AM on October 8, 2016 [43 favorites]

More gems:

@Dailytakes It's not because I am a father and a husband that I am repulsed by Trump. Nor because I'm a GOPer. I am repulsed by Trump because I am human

@iowahawkblog "I'd tap that" is locker room banter. "I grab em by the p***y and they can't do anything cuz I'm famous" is a psychopath's confession.

@HeerJeet TRUMP: I love the taste of human flesh. My presidency will be a cannibal orgy.
PAUL RYAN. I hope he apologizes. I still endorse him.

More Republican legislators calling for Trump to drop out include Martha Roby, of Alabama, and Barbara Comstock, of Virginia.

The thing that I'm seeing that is honestly astonishing - Republicans are so angry about this that they're retweeting the New York Times and Huffington Post, if those outlets have stories about this and the conservative outlets don't. That....never happens. I have never, ever seen that. It's frankly encouraging!
posted by corb at 7:11 AM on October 8, 2016 [94 favorites]

Enjoy the delicious schadenfreude while it's plentiful and cheap, but these woods are deep and dark and we are not out of them yet.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 7:12 AM on October 8, 2016 [52 favorites]

And for them as don't know, CapHillStyle is not just an excruciatingly dull DC style blogger, she's a Republican one.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:12 AM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]

I don't think the Republicans need to get a new name on the ballot. We aren't voting for the name on the ballot. We are voting for the elector who goes to the electoral college meeting in December and votes for the person represented by the name on the ballot. Trump's name can be on the ballot but they can cast the vote for Pence, or Rubio, or whoever may get conned into taking one for the team.

This has been discussed in a lot of detail in various threads here, and the upshot seems to be that it's not that easy. Many states have laws that say that the electors have to vote for the name on the ballot, and they include several states that the Republicans would need to win. It's not clear how enforceable those laws are, and there would be a lot of litigation, which would eventually make its way to the Supreme Court, which is currently down a justice and at a high chance for 4-4 deadlock. I am fully willing to believe that some Republicans would be willing to risk this, because they're chaotic evil and that's how they roll, but it seems like a very difficult path to the presidency.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:14 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

if Trump were to do one of those big teary tv evangelist apologies and then do a come to jesus, beg for forgiveness stunt would that work in regards to your family/friends?

This scene has been playing off in my head for almost half an hour now. I can just imagine his team and handlers trying to convince him to do this and the various ways they'd have to try to make it appeal to his ego. It wouldn't happen, Trump has shown all of his acting abilities and that sort of thing is not on the cards. If he did it he'd be smirking the entire time, make comments about how hokey the whole thing was, he wouldn't be able to commit to looking that weak and vulnerable. That sort of thing works when the audience gets to see what they believe is genuine remorse and Trump can't even manage anything remotely close to something like that.

Everything about it would be playing up to the image of the "loser" that he's dressed his rivals all up in. It's not alpha or manly or strong. But in that sense I'd maybe love to see him do it because the contortions that the_donald and 4chan would have to go through to defend their projection of him would be totally worth it.
posted by Neronomius at 7:14 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Corb - personally I would be shocked if there was a serious attempt made to remove Trump from the ticket, because there just plain isn't time for it. Thousands of people have already voted for him. Ballots in most states can't be reprinted. And, most pressingly, Trump's base would see it as a blatantly undemocratic removal of the fairly elected candidate AND THEY WOULD BE RIGHT.

Even if you interpret Rule 9 very loosely, even if they somehow kick him off and somehow agree on a replacement with just a month until the election, do you think Trump and his supporters will just shrug that off? Better to let him lose spectacularly, and then say "see? We can't let this happen again!"

You reap what you sow. The party made its choice months ago and now they have to choke on it. Hopefully it teaches them a hard lesson.
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:15 AM on October 8, 2016 [36 favorites]

this has probably been Trump's plan from the start

Never assume Trump has a plan. He just moves from one instantaneous ego gratification to the next. There is no brilliant, evil scheme — there's just the roving garbage pile of pathologies.
posted by argybarg at 7:16 AM on October 8, 2016 [78 favorites]

Roby is the only GOP Rep to pull an endorsement who's not from Utah or from a close race. (Sasse never endorsed Trump.)

In terms of giving out cookies: in the scheme of things, of course not a single one of these people deserves a cookie for pulling endorsements at this point. But I do think we should encourage these people to do the right thing at last (Pence included - drop out and leave the Cheeto standing alone, buddy). I'll throw them a shitty, stale cookie for that.
posted by sallybrown at 7:16 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

Enjoy the delicious schadenfreude while it's plentiful and cheap, but these woods are deep and dark and we are not out of them yet.

This is a good point and I hesitate to say "this election is over" but really, this election is starting to enter "yeah it is kind of over" territory. Why different this time? Because people are already voting in lots of states. This is going to get people to the polls this week to cast votes for Clinton. I don't know how many people are going to be rushing to vote for Trump. Also, this election has gone on forever and it seems like there will be another 6 or 7 twists or turns, but that's going to be hard since there are only four weeks left. Seriously! This election is getting close to wrapping up. Finally, the reason why I think this is truly danged over and done with is because there are whispers of more and more of this stuff -- old Apprentice tapes, more Access Hollywood footage. If something damaging about Hillary comes out, they'll just drop a new Donald tape. It's over.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 7:17 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

> Pence is really screwed by this. He obviously saw this as setup for his 2020 run, and Donnie has just blown any advantage he thought he was giving himself in that regard. Resigning from the ticket might be one way to save himself, but that leaves the GOP nobody but Trump.

I imagine David Duke would still pick up the phone if Trump called.
posted by at by at 7:17 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

>if Trump were to do one of those big teary tv evangelist apologies and then do a come to jesus, beg for forgiveness stunt

I don't think he could do it if his life depended on it. To apologize is to humble yourself. I don't think he's capable of it, I don't think his personality has the range to hit those notes, and if he COULD do it I think it would destroy him in the eyes of many of his followers who only admire him for his unapologetic authoritarian nature.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 7:18 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

The party made its choice months ago and now they have to choke on it.

It's not just about the party. If he doesn't suffer immediate, clear consequences for this, it will give license to others to think that this behavior is "not that bad". Defeat at the ballot box is not enough, people will tell themselves that Hillary was always going to win, etc. Trump needs to be removed now, and he needs to be removed specifically for this. Anyone who admits that they sexually assault women, but it's okay because they're asking for it anyway, they need to be hounded off whatever stage they're on, be it only running for dog catcher.
posted by corb at 7:19 AM on October 8, 2016 [68 favorites]

Pence is really screwed by this. He obviously saw this as setup for his 2020 run, and Donnie has just blown any advantage he thought he was giving himself in that regard.

Judging by the last debate I don't get the impression Pence knows anything of Trump. He barely seems to realize Trump is running for President, much less the facts and truth of any of Trump's garbage.
posted by Karaage at 7:20 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

Another problem with deTrumping the ticket is that the GOP already has a huge downballot problem if too many of their flock stay home in disgust. If they deTrump the ticket, in addition to the already disgusted and pissed off people who will still be disgusted and pissed off, they will enrage the alt-right base that put Trump on the ticket in the first place, and if they stay home too then the downballot situation is even worse. I'm sure they will calculate that it's better to keep bailing with what they have than risk overturning the ship completely.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:20 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Trump being removed would mitigate the consequences for the GOP. The Party needs their noses rubbed long and hard in what they've done.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:22 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

In a better possible world than this, every Republican who is experiencing buyer's remorse would cross party lines, and vote the straight Democratic ticket to show the GOP that they done fucked up, and they aren't getting a pass on it.

In a better possible world than this.
posted by mikelieman at 7:22 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

>In terms of giving out cookies:

The INITIAL Republican reaction to Trump was shame and horror, but in no time they came around because HE LOOKED LIKE HE COULD WIN. Nobody thought, even from the beginning, that he was anything but what he is; it was just deemed acceptable because he could win. People who are cutting ties now aren't "doing the right thing", they're just not gonna bet on a loser, and don't want the loser cooties to get on them.

For my money they can have the kinda cookies that horses leave in the street.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 7:23 AM on October 8, 2016 [51 favorites]

Yes, this.
And don't call me Shirley.
posted by brevator at 7:24 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

Judging by the last debate I don't get the impression Pence knows anything of Trump.

Oh I'm sure Pence knew enough about Trump to realize the risk he was taking, not that he will necessarily admit to knowing any of it. Trump is a pretty bright meteor and hard to miss. What Pence knew that was important was that Trump won the nomination and they were having a bit of a problem finding a running mate, and he probably agreed with the consensus that Trump was not necessarily going to be able to win but figured he could get some exposure out of the run. And unfortunately he has.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:24 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

I agree, corb, with your basic point: There needs to be an unequivocal consequence. But the legal boundaries basically proscribe removing Trump, even as a protest gesture. We should all take voter disenfranchisement seriously; what about the people who have already voted for Donald Trump in early voting?

There needs to be a clear, singular, no-going-back mass withdrawal of endorsements: At one press conference, with no escape clause, and 30+ major party figures present. But, c'mon.
posted by argybarg at 7:24 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

@daveweigel: Sen. Roy Blunt tells me he'll still vote for Trump, and it's "unrealistic" to ask that he quit the race to be replaced.

FYI, Blunt is in a very tight re-election race right now. His opponent, current Missouri Secretary of State Jason Kander, is a Jewish military veteran with 100% ratings from NARAL and Planned Parenthood. He's not perfect, but he's light-years ahead of grade-A shitstain Blunt. If you haven't already, now's a good time to donate.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:24 AM on October 8, 2016 [36 favorites]

So those of you who still have roots and/or ties to the evangelical/born again Christians, if Trump were to do one of those big teary tv evangelist apologies and then do a come to jesus, beg for forgiveness stunt would that work in regards to your family/friends?

My read is that some people would actually see it for what it is and reject him but a sizable percentage would eat that up. Because fundamentally people seem to like a redemption story and a big part of the theology is about being saved when you accept Jesus.

I was thinking about this thing a few days ago, actually--that all he's missing is a big conversion moment where he bigly accepts Jesus Christ as his personal savior, in of course the most public and ostentatious way, and then he'll be locked in solid with the evangelicals forevermore. Yet another in a long line of creepy-ass molesters who get away with it, and gain approval besides.
posted by Sublimity at 7:24 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

I wouldn't go as far as to say that Trump can't win, or even that he's unlikely to win. American party politics is tribal, and some 45% of the electorate will vote for the Republican candidate no matter who he is; the party could run some backwoods-American equivalent of General Butt Naked, and people would still rally behind him, because He's Our Guy and against the Liberals who want to destroy faith, family, Christmas, motherhood and apple pie. And that goes double for when the Democrat is Hillary Clinton, a woman who doesn't know her traditionally-ordained place and thus represents every threatening social change.

The biggest threat is that people will think that there's no way that Trump can win now, and will stay home on election day, or allow bad weather/voter-suppression laws to put them off. Meanwhile, the megachurches will round up their voters in minibuses, and the angry white guys of small towns and Reddit forums will still see it as their chance of giving the liberal elites a kicking, and will jump for it, and prevail.
posted by acb at 7:24 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

...And my last conservative evangelical Christian friend just posted a strong and impassioned "Dump Trump" message on facebook.

For or against?
posted by drezdn at 7:25 AM on October 8, 2016

It's not just about the party. If he doesn't suffer immediate, clear consequences for this, it will give license to others to think that this behavior is "not that bad".

From my perspective, that ship has so thoroughly sailed that it's in Valinor.
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:26 AM on October 8, 2016 [50 favorites]

A moment's thought: Friday night is when newsmakers issue the press releases they're obligated to which make them look bad, because it gets buried by sports and entertainment news, and public reaction withers away before the next weekday news cycle.

Imagine what the public reaction would have been if this had come out earlier in the week.
posted by at by at 7:26 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

I honestly can't believe that Hillary has to stand on the same stage as this guy and debate him. I feel like the Republicans are just trying to see if she'll fuck a pig.
posted by brevator at 7:27 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Locker Room Talk.

OK, admittedly, I haven't been in a Locker Room three times in the last decade. Those times, I was mainly concerned with showering and getting dressed quickly in a situation where I was uncomfortable with public-ish nudity. I think most of the guys around me were doing the same.

I don't know what Locker Rooms this alleged Locker Room Talk goes on in, but it wasn't Gold's Gym, based on my obviously limited experience.

What's in that tape is not Locker Room Talk. It's Male Dominated Workplace Talk. I've heard similar talk in the workplace. In the office. Around conference tables. In situations where I had to be locking my eyes on my laptop screen, pointedly ignoring the person saying it, wishing desperately that they were not in a position of authority over me in the workplace. "Oh, what, I wasn't listening..." was my weak response, trying not to sound too frightened, trying to balance toxic Boys Will Be Boys bullshit with keeping my job.

These guys weren't in a Locker Room. They were in The Workplace. At a TV studio in a TV studio bus with live mics. Donald Trump: Media Genius and Billy Bush: TV Professional didn't think there might be a live mic? Really? Whatevs. They knew he could talk "like that" because no man ever had any consequences ever for doing so. Men "like that" don't even know talking "like that" is a thing. Like the fish said, What the fuck is "water?"

Maybe this will be what pulls the drain-plug.
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:27 AM on October 8, 2016 [131 favorites]

Gov. Whitman: Why Clinton is the only choice for president | Opinion


2020, yo.
posted by mikelieman at 7:28 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

at by, there's a big difference: the debate is tomorrow and this is still fresh.
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:28 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Character Is Destiny: If you can see that, but still think Hillary Clinton would be worse. Fine. Just be prepared for an endless stream of more embarrassments in your name. And, for my friends in the media and in politics, if you minimize, dismiss or celebrate his grotesqueness out of partisan zeal, just keep in mind that some people, including your children, might think you mean it. Or, they might know you don’t mean it. Which means they now know you lie for a living.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:29 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

There is no way this isn't going to get brought up in the debate. It would be insane for her not to.
posted by corb at 7:29 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

You could say he's now a very large pubic hair on the GOP Coke can.
posted by davebush at 7:30 AM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]

In a larger sense, though, I personally suspect that the meteoric rise of the Internet over the past decade has fundamentally changed the whole "news cycle" to the point where conventional wisdom on the best time to release a thing is no longer relevant.
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:30 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

Speaking of the debate, I wonder how many of those "undecided voters" they carefully picked for the town hall audience will still be undecided now.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:31 AM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]

Imagine what the public reaction would have been if this had come out earlier in the week.


Is there really going to be someone who doesn't hear about "grab them in the pussy" because it came out on a Friday?
posted by argybarg at 7:31 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

Evan Bayh spent his last year in office searching for a lobbying job
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:32 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

People in the UK have been making the comparison with Jimmy Savile and I can certainly see why. Factor in also the revelations which have just come out about the scale of sexual harassment and assault of students on university campuses here. There's a screwed up culture of celebrity in hierarchical organisations like the media and universities, where so many of the powerful are men and those at the bottom of the hierarchy are young women. I've heard plenty of "gossip" along the lines of, "oh [well-known academic]. Yes, [x university] have now stopped him supervising female MA students, because he can't be trusted to be in the same room as them without another member of staff being present, haha." And that's it; it's just treated as salacious gossip, not evidence of actual criminal behaviour. I suspect it's the same in the film and TV industries. Of course, we are all scrupulously liberal in our personal politics.
posted by Sonny Jim at 7:32 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

Kellyanne! I and the rest of the American people demand you give Donald back his phone right now!
posted by sourwookie at 7:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]

The thing about the Friday news dump is that the story has to also quickly die. If the story is still hanging around on Saturday it didn't work.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

Is there really going to be someone who doesn't hear about "grab them in the pussy" because it came out on a Friday?

The story also broke about 4pm Eastern/1pm Pacific, as most people were still at work before the long weekend. Everyone saw the video.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:34 AM on October 8, 2016

"These guys weren't in a Locker Room."

Maybe SJW's wouldn't get so much pushback about "Safe Spaces" if they starting calling them "Locker Rooms".
posted by klarck at 7:34 AM on October 8, 2016 [49 favorites]

I'm disgustedly certain there's a fairly high number of Trump supporters who listened to this (I'm thinking reading the transcript would be a little past them) and grinned, thinking "Damn right."

At this point a Trump sticker/sign/vote is reason for me to dismiss you from humanity.
posted by Mooski at 7:34 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

his rallies and r/T..._D...

("r/T..._D..."?)
posted by nebulawindphone at 7:35 AM on October 8, 2016

It's getting to where I'm not scared to look at fivethirtyeight any more!
posted by Anne Neville at 7:35 AM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]

538's banner forecast is now at 90% for Hillary.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:37 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

Right now, I see Trump as a reminder that there are no background checks on the powerful. That the party system is not robust when confronted with threats outside the context of previous elections. That the GOP, and perhaps the Democrats too but we haven't had that test recently and hopefully never will, is willing to run with fascism (and a rise in hate crimes that is a real and continuing event) for an electoral victory.

What a shitty year.
posted by Slackermagee at 7:38 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

So, I bought a huge thing of tic-tacs for my office yesterday.

Damn if that doesn't look awful now.
posted by schmod at 7:38 AM on October 8, 2016 [34 favorites]

According to CBS, here's the early voting timetable:

Already voting: Idaho, Minnesota, South Dakota, Vermont, Maine, Maryland, New Jersey, Illinois, Iowa, North Dakota, Wyoming

10/10/16 California, Nebraska

10/11/16 Montana, New Mexico, Utah

10/12/16 Arizona, Indiana, Ohio

10/17/16 Georgia

10/19/16 Kansas, Tennessee

10/20/16 North Carolina

10/21/16 Washington

10/22/16 Nevada

10/24/16 Alaska, Arkansas, Colorado, Texas, Wisconsin

10/25/16 Hawaii, Louisiana

10/26/16 West Virginia

10/28/16 Massachusetts

10/29/16 Florida

10/30/16 District of Columbia

11/3/16 Oklahoma
posted by sallybrown at 7:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

Altoids execs are stoked this morning.
posted by winna at 7:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [19 favorites]

("r/T..._D..."?) => https://reddit.com/r/The_Donald I imagine
posted by pharm at 7:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

We must stand up for our tic tacs, we cannot let them go down with the ship.
posted by The Noble Goofy Elk at 7:40 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Gabriel Sherman (twitter): hear Trump huddled in meeting at Trump Tower w/ Rudy, Newt and Jeff Sessions. Source: Sessions arguing Trump should consider dropping out
posted by sallybrown at 7:40 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Has anyone posted Robert de Niro on Trump yet? It's exciting.
posted by argybarg at 7:41 AM on October 8, 2016 [20 favorites]

Early voting has already started in Wisconsin.
posted by drezdn at 7:41 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

A moment's thought: Friday night is when newsmakers issue the press releases they're obligated to which make them look bad, because it gets buried by sports and entertainment news, and public reaction withers away before the next weekday news cycle.

Imagine what the public reaction would have been if this had come out earlier in the week.

I assume the release was timed to give a few days for it to fester and boil and spread before the debate, and with too little time for Trump and his campaign to regain their composure.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:41 AM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]

What's in that tape is not Locker Room Talk. It's Male Dominated Workplace Talk.

It's every space where men think they have impunity, public or private.
posted by holgate at 7:41 AM on October 8, 2016 [20 favorites]

Joy Reid is interviewing Evangelical leaders right now on MSNBC, who are "trying to put this video into context."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:42 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Is there really going to be someone who doesn't hear about "grab them in the pussy" because it came out on a Friday?

I live in Jacksonville, Florida and was in the middle of a hurricane yesterday, and even I heard it.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 7:42 AM on October 8, 2016 [67 favorites]

It's not just about the party. If he doesn't suffer immediate, clear consequences for this, it will give license to others to think that this behavior is "not that bad". Defeat at the ballot box is not enough, people will tell themselves that Hillary was always going to win, etc. Trump needs to be removed now, and he needs to be removed specifically for this. Anyone who admits that they sexually assault women, but it's okay because they're asking for it anyway, they need to be hounded off whatever stage they're on, be it only running for dog catcher.

I feel with you, corb, but it's not going to happen. And the majority of Republicans are going to be OK with it not going to happen and will be voting for him. And it will go like this:

Stage 1: Outrage until Sunday.
Stage 2: Debate will dominate the news for a few days. Talking heads will discuss some stupid thing that Trump (or Hillary) said. 538 reports Trump popular vote at record low of 38%.
Stage 3: Rehashing of Bill's infidelities. Talking heads conclude they were worse, because he was already in elected office and didn't just talk.
Stage 4: More emails / Benghazi.
Stage 5: More stupidity by Trump camp dominating the news.
Stage 6: Talking heads are all like "Lewd remarks were 10 years ago, Benghazi/emails is NOW!"
Stage 7: Talking heads reach the conclusion: All things considered, both sides are equally bad.
Stage 8: Trump support creeps back to >40%.
posted by sour cream at 7:42 AM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]

The comments Trump made are gross, as his social conservative backers concede. But, to these Evangelicals, “grab them by the pussy” doesn’t sound quite as bad as “President Hillary Clinton.”
posted by acb at 7:42 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Trump reps right now on CNN:

Jack Kingston blaming Trump's comments on "Hollywood culture." He was a "different man" twelve years ago.

Scottie Nells Hughes ignores question about comments entirely and talks about ambushed cops, bombs in US cities, etc. Straight-up fear mongering.
posted by zakur at 7:44 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

It used to be the same in the media in the UK - everyone knew that celeb/big chief X was an octopus or worse, and you make sure if you were in his target demographic you took care. And some very serious sexual predation was condoned by default.

But since Savile (and before, although not so obviously) this has changed. The dynamic now, which may well play out with Trump, is that old stuff comes out quickly once the dam breaks - people who were too scared to talk, or were dismissed for various reasons, speak out and get heard.

Gonna be an interesting few weeks...
posted by Devonian at 7:45 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

I'm sympathetic to the conservatives like corb who have been trying to fight the good fight and save the patient from the cancer that is eating it from within but fundamentally at this point in time any attempt to dump Trump is about minimizing the negative impact of Trump on down-ballot contests.

But the truth of the matter is that Trump does represent the modern Republican party. Sure it's the shadow aspect of the Republican party that most people try to sweep under the rug but to deny that there is a very real percentage of the Republican party that doesn't fundamentally support Trump and the things that he's saying is a lie.

The faux outrage from Republicans who had previously endorsed him previously because it was a political requirement are also the ones hand-wringing in public now that Trump is completely radioactive. They want him gone not because what he's said is deplorable because he's been saying completely shitty things since he got into the race but because he's threatening their power.

Until the Republican party actually does battle with the deplorable elements in their own ranks I really can't see how they are going to recover. The rot has set in too deep. Trying to paper over the cracks with a "Wow New Presidential Nominee!" and a "Please forget the last 18 months" is simply not going to work.

The Republican party has been playing with fire for decades and it's going to get burnt and burnt badly. It will survive but yeah it needs to be punished for the shitty choices it's made.
posted by vuron at 7:45 AM on October 8, 2016 [40 favorites]

>Has anyone posted Robert de Niro on Trump yet?

MUTT WHO DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT/PENCE 2016

Get your bumper stickers before they're gone!
posted by Sing Or Swim at 7:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

The dynamic now, which may well play out with Trump, is that old stuff comes out quickly once the dam breaks - people who were too scared to talk, or were dismissed for various reasons, speak out and get heard.

See also: Bill Cosby
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [19 favorites]

One thing that occurs to me is that Trump wasn't wrong. He groped and forced himself on women and, because he's famous, got away with it. Or would have, if he hadn't run for president. Actually, he still will get away with it and will continue to after he loses.
posted by fungible at 7:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

WaPo reporter: First Republican voter I talk to in Mt Vernon, Missouri defends Trump: "That was in 2005, when he was a Democrat."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:49 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

Trump wasn't wrong

This. The tone of Trump's comment to Billy is half bragging, but half advice. You can get away with it if you're a star, so live it up. Why hold back? If you can take it and nobody will stop you, it's yours. This was Trump giving his colleague the benefit of his no doubt by then extensive experience.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:49 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

NBC apparently also pulled video from The Apprentice for review after the AP article. God knows what's in there. It could be even worse. (twitter link)
posted by sallybrown at 7:49 AM on October 8, 2016

@realDonaldTrump: Certainly has been an interesting 24 hours! (real)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:50 AM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]

I'm hoping for a month full of October surprises, each more surprising than the last.

I'm not even sure how to parse this election anymore, like I don't think I'm capable.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 7:51 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

May you live in interesting times, @realDonaldTrump.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:52 AM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]

How on earth has any media company that has ever filmed Trump for any reason NOT been digging through old tape since he's been the nominee? They don't even need principles to do it, just a desire for clicks and eyeballs. Interns come cheap too.
posted by neonrev at 7:54 AM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]

@hughhewitt For the benefit of the country, the party and his family, and for his own good, @realDonaldTrump should withdraw. More and worse oppo coming
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:54 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Oh, I know that move. We're not going to laugh it off, Donald. This isn't your office and I don't depend on you for a paycheck.
posted by sallybrown at 7:54 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

Donald Trump is surprisingly good at dancing the limbo.

I blame you for the mental image haunting my brain now.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:55 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

I think all members of the Clinton campaign are spamming "my ultimate is ready" at each other right now.

Justice! Rains from above!
posted by argybarg at 7:55 AM on October 8, 2016 [23 favorites]

How much schadenfreude is safe to experience?

I feel like I just bought a four pack of double chocolate muffins and then ate them all and hid the container in the bottom of the recycling so my wife won't know the full extent of my shameful overindulgence.
posted by srboisvert at 7:55 AM on October 8, 2016 [47 favorites]

From Interface, the 1994 political sci-fi novel by Neal Stephenson and J. Frederick George:

In the 1700s, politics was all about the ideas. But Jefferson came up with all the good ideas. In the 1800s, it was all about character. But no one will ever have as much character as Lincoln and Lee. For much of the 1900s it was about charisma. But we no longer trust charisma because Hitler used it to kill Jews and JFK used it to get laid and send us to Vietnam.

Today, we are in the Age of Scrutiny. A public figure must withstand the scrutiny of the media. The President is the ultimate public figure and must stand up under ultimate scrutiny; he is like a man stretched out on a rack in the public square in some medieval shithole of a town, undergoing the rigors of the Inquisition. Like the medieval trial by ordeal, the Age of Scrutiny sneers at rational inquiry and debate, and presumes that mere oaths and protestations are deceptions and lies. The only way to discover the real truth is by the rite of the ordeal, which exposes the subject to such inhuman strain that any defect in his character will cause him to crack wide open, like a flawed diamond. It is a mystical procedure that skirts rationality, which is seen as the work of the Devil, instead drawing down a higher, ineffable power. Like the Roman haruspex who foretold the outcome of a battle, not by analyzing the strengths of the opposing forces but by groping through the steaming guts of a slaughtered ram, we seek to establish a candidate's fitness for office by pinning him under the lights of a television studio and counting the number of times he blinks his eyes in a minute, deconstructing his use of eye contact, monitoring his gesticulations--whether his hands are held open or closed, towards or away from the camera, spread open forthcomingly or clenched like grasping claws.

posted by mbrubeck at 7:55 AM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]

I got my Arizona absentee overseas ballot on the 22nd of Sept. I so voted yesterday. I'm pretty excited about AZ going blue in the 538 now-cast.
posted by Spumante at 7:56 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

Already voting: Idaho, Minnesota, South Dakota, Vermont, Maine, Maryland, New Jersey, Illinois, Iowa, North Dakota, Wyoming

Also Virginia. We call it absentee but the reasons can include having to work or go to an appointment outside your voting county on Election Day, a required 11 hour work shift on Election Day, taking care of sick family, etc. About half the reasons don't even require follow-up answers/explanations. In person absentee started 8 days ago.
posted by phearlez at 7:59 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

What's in that tape is not Locker Room Talk. It's Male Dominated Workplace Talk.

It's every space where men think they have impunity, public or private.

I honestly can't favorite these enough.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:01 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

8. If the LGBTQ community wants to be a bit more inclusive, I don’t see why “polyamorous alpha male serial kisser” can’t be on the list. If you want to label Trump’s sexual behavior “abnormal” you’re on shaky ground.

I'm not going to link to him or even mention his name because I think most Mefites can probably guess just by the waffling and the fact that it's already point 8.
posted by Talez at 8:02 AM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]

How much do Republicans hate it that Barack Obama or HRC is President. They'd rather destroy the country.
posted by My Dad at 8:02 AM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump: Certainly has been an interesting 24 hours! (real)

I think this is going to be the next few weeks. Donald 'standing strong' and just dismissing it all as story after a story and a whole pile of his shyte gets dumped into media.

Republicans will be baying, 'Please just quit, for the love of all that is holy' and dropping him one by one. The only question is which of them will sell out any piece of soul they have and stick with him to the end.

And Trump is just going to be all ' Nope. Fuck you my base lurvs me'. And he'll be right.

The true believers will act in desperation and trying dumping everything and everything onto Hillary. The only solace is that they dump and someone will dump some Trump something that takes the spotlight.

And I expect we're going to have some of his campaign people publicly bailing and hopefully spilling all sorts of campaign shit beans.

It's gonna be a shit show.
posted by Jalliah at 8:03 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'm not going to link to him or even mention his name because I think most Mefites can probably guess just by the waffling and the fact that it's already point 8.

He's such a creep. "Oh, yeah, that apology was perfect." It's also amusing he's so thin-skinned he's getting into squabbles with commenters on Twitter.
posted by My Dad at 8:03 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

"How on earth has any media company that has ever filmed Trump for any reason NOT been digging through old tape since he's been the nominee? "

Sarah Kendzior ‏@sarahkendzior Think about Billy Bush's side of the conversation. Trump's had conversations like that with how many media people? He has dirt on them too.
posted by klarck at 8:04 AM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

So this is a bit off-topic, but I guess recently people, including Sam Wang, have been making fun of Nate Silver for this tweet.

I think this is somewhat unfair. That statement isn't vague, nonsensical, or equivocational — in fact, it means something fairly precise. He was saying that he gives Trump a 25% chance of winning, and that the remaining 75% probability is evenly distributed across the plausible range of victory margins for Clinton.

I'm not saying Nate Silver's methods are perfect. His model is sort of weirdly complex, with the pollster rankings and whatnot, and I'm not really qualified to compare it to (say) Sam Wang's methodology, which seems sound.

And when Silver has dipped into punditry, like he did when covering the Republican primary, it hasn't gone well.

But all the weird shit-flinging going around the world of psephology blogs is sort of baffling to me, and not really a good look for anybody involved.
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 8:04 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

@hughhewitt For the benefit of the country, the party and his family, and for his own good, @realDonaldTrump should withdraw. More and worse oppo coming

Yeah there's no way that there isn't another tape with him saying things just as bad. Maybe with his face on the camera and his smug smile while he brags about forcing himself on women. He's so casual about it on the tape from last night that you know he's been saying this shit out loud for years, groping and kissing women who didn't want it, probably raping a few (it's amazing nobody from his college days has come forward!) and nobody stopped him or punished him in all his 70 years. This is probably literally the first time he's faced consequences for it. So you know there has to be worse shit on tape out there, just waiting to drop.
posted by dis_integration at 8:04 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

I recommend everyone watch Frontline's The Choice, concerning Trump and Clinton's background. According to military school chums, he idolized Hugh Hefner as an unloved and repressed teen. More to the point, at least one banker suggests from personal encounters that Trump doesn't seem to understand the basics of finance. It also exposed the fact that Trump is paid monthly to promote a failed real estate empire that avoided collapsing itself because the bankers wanted to keep his name on the buildings. Even today he doesn't own the buildings with his name on them, and on his original Trump Tower, he sold spaces with floor numbers ten stories higher than they really were.
posted by Brian B. at 8:04 AM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]

The talk about the GOP rising up and removing Trump as the nominee concerns me a bit - all it's going to take is for them to replace Trump with someone nominally palatable to the people who have a hate on for Hillary for this all to go pear shaped.
posted by Mooski at 8:04 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

I eagerly await the Trump camp to try and spin this as more liberal media persecution, some sort of political witch hunt.

The really sad thing is that he is going to do exactly that, and it will work.

Trump's supporters revel in the amount of distress the things he says causes to "the left" and "the politically correct" and "the SJWs".
posted by flabdablet at 8:06 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

I would be shocked if there was a serious attempt made to remove Trump from the ticket, because there just plain isn't time for it.

Trump has no shame, so I'm skeptical that he'll resign on his own and if the GOP couldn't get him off the ticket before, I'm even more skeptical of their chances of removing him now, at the worst possible moment. That said, I hope the talk continues for another three weeks or so.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:06 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

@Max_Fisher: "Protect our women" is honor culture, pure and simple. Women matter as tokens of male honor. Framed as condemning misogyny, it feeds it.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:06 AM on October 8, 2016 [90 favorites]

In other Friday Trump news, a judge has decided that the child rape lawsuit against Trump has merit, and a hearing is scheduled for December. [real]
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:06 AM on October 8, 2016 [45 favorites]

I mean

On the upside it's been kind of nice seeing the American Evangelical movement demonstrate in no uncertain terms that, as a whole, they really just don't care that much deep down about any of that actual Jesus stuff in the Bible, given their remarkably consistent and vocal support for the one person who may have history's strongest claim to "literally the opposite of Jesus"
posted by DoctorFedora at 8:07 AM on October 8, 2016 [66 favorites]

he is going to do exactly that, and it will work.

Define "work."
posted by argybarg at 8:07 AM on October 8, 2016

Donald Trump Likely Made Lewd Comments While Melania Was Pregnant: The Republican nominee made the remarks about women that have plunged his presidential campaign into chaos while he was on his way to tape a cameo on the daytime soap opera “Days Of Our Lives” that would air on Oct. 24, 2005. She gave birth to their son Barron on Mar. 20, 2006.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:09 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

Angus Johnston: "I'd like to hear just one Republican say he's disavowing Trump to set an example for his son."
posted by gwint at 8:09 AM on October 8, 2016 [150 favorites]

I'm trying to make a bullet point list of the many scandals that Donald J. Trump has been involved with and I cannot keep track, there are just too many of them. These are just a few from the last few weeks/months...

• Insult dead soldier and parents
• Brag about not paying taxes
• Espouse birther movement lies
• Insult beauty pageant contestant
• Deny innocence of Central Park Five
• Trump University
• Multiple rape accusations
• Using charity funds for personal expenses
• Implying that gun rights supporters should harm Hilary
•
•
•
•
posted by Fizz at 8:10 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

Mooski, all I can say is that I simply don't believe that. Think about Trump's base and ask yourself if they'd roll over (like a dog!) and accept a replacement candidate, AND that candidate would suck away 4 points from Clinton, in the space of what will be three weeks or less before the election, AND when many states simply won't allow new ballots at all.

It won't happen, and if it did, it would fail.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:11 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

Yeah, I left a few bullet points blank because we still have a month more of this shit to look forward to.

sighs
posted by Fizz at 8:14 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Trump's statement is an eerie replica of psychological manipulations made by abusers after episodes of abuse.

Let's break it down.
posted by My Dad at 8:15 AM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]

Here's hoping this tips the balance of power in Congress just enough that Hillary can really get some shit done. She'll certainly have tons of moral authority.
posted by wabbittwax at 8:16 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

Another thing that seems weird is that there was no woman working on that whole bus full of people? What was it? Eight people total working on this thing, and none of them were female?
posted by lauranesson at 8:16 AM on October 8, 2016

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
As I told everyone once before, Wiener is a sick puppy who will never change-100% of perverts go back to their ways. Sadly, there is no cure

BET YOU WISH YOU DIDN'T SAY THAT ONE BACK IN 2013!
posted by Talez at 8:17 AM on October 8, 2016 [67 favorites]

Another thing that seems weird is that there was no woman working on that whole bus full of people?

Nothing weird about it at all. People are really good at reading other people. You can usually sense evil/crazy after spending just a short period with someone. Considering his views on women, it's not surprising at all that many women do not want to be around someone as toxic as Mr. Trump.
posted by Fizz at 8:18 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

I would have loved to see Hillary beat a more serious opponent...

Such this, and this feeling is going to be awkward in December. I mean, I'll take it, of course, because yes, the alternative is, you know, living through the unimaginable.

But if you step back now, it's starting to look like like a schoolteacher beating up on a toddler. This is what we get for our historic election?

I can't stop revisiting those early-election thought experiments. If, as a Clinton supporter and/or Democrat, you could design the perfect, most damaged, easiest-to-beat opponent, who would you come up with?

I don't think back then we could even imagine any opponent as paper-thin and damaged as Trump. It's beyond a laugher. It's surreal.
posted by rokusan at 8:21 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

Even if the Republican party wanted to replace Trump and while there is probably some wishful thinking going on right now it seems pretty much impossible.

It's too late to change ballots, it's too late to clear all the no doubt massive legal hurdles, it's too late to come up with some sacrificial pawn who would no doubt lose by double digits.

Sometimes you just have to soldier on despite knowing that your course of action is utterly doomed. That's where the Republican Party is at this point.

Trump will be the nominee and Trump will defeated soundly on November 8th. Any dramatic attempts at disavowing him at this point are attempts to limit the damage. The Senate is almost certainly going to be under Democratic control but they'll continue to fight the good fight but the real firewall needs to be protecting control of the house and somehow protecting the party from itself.
posted by vuron at 8:21 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

I assume the release was timed to give a few days for it to fester and boil and spread before the debate, and with too little time for Trump and his campaign to regain their composure.

Given the way he missed his best opening to go after Clinton on Benghazi and emails at the first debate because he wanted to pivot to talk about his own taxes AGAIN, he's going to be an apoplectic mess on Sunday with this. Or else he's going to be seriously compromised by trying very very hard to not take any bait and fly into an apoplectic mess.

What I'm saying is that this timing is brilliant (thank you, whomever leaked it ahead of NBC's planned rollout) and I am literally going to be that GIF of Michael Jackson eating popcorn at the beginning of the Thriller video this Sunday evening in front of the television. It's the only way left to cope with this.
posted by blue suede stockings at 8:22 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

I wouldn't be surprised if there were women there. They were just invisible to Trump if he didn't want to fuck them, and they kept quiet because their jobs depended on it.
posted by sallybrown at 8:22 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

all it's going to take is for them to replace Trump with someone nominally palatable...

It's much, much, much too late. They needed to do this months and months ago.

Relax. It's over, we're safe.
posted by rokusan at 8:23 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Sen. Crapo [real] R-Idaho, withdraws his endorsement for Trump.
posted by dis_integration at 8:23 AM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]

Just in case newspaper endorsements mean anything to anyone anymore, let's look at the latest count:

Hillary Clinton     : 43
NOBODY              : 7
Gary Johnson        : 6
"Not Donald Trump"  : 2
Donald Trump        : 0

Kind of wondering if Trump's count should be -2 when you add in the mind-boggling idea of a negative endorsement.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:24 AM on October 8, 2016 [59 favorites]

Look up the historical popular vote margins between the winner and runner-up in presidential elections.

If this shit keeps up, we could be looking at a 'historical election' in more ways than one.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:24 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Not because you have a sister.
Not because you have a mother.
Not because you have a daughter.

Because she's a person.

I'm glad that so many people are angered at Trump's admitted sexual assault tendencies, but the "We must protect our womenfolk" sentiments creep me out almost as much. It's like Romney and his ilk can't imagine women having any value outside of their relationships to men.

Also, Trump looks even more pathetic in this video because he basically admits that women aren't attracted to him for anything besides his fame. I mean, yeah obviously, but I would guess most men would at least lie, both to themselves and to other bros, and say that women liked something human about them - sex appeal, charm, seduction skills, awesome penile power. Even if it obviously wasn't true, admitting that there's nothing else attractive about you than your money is kind of pathetic - unless you're Trump, I guess, where the only true measure of a person is how famous you are.
posted by bibliowench at 8:25 AM on October 8, 2016 [42 favorites]

I would have loved to see Hillary beat a more serious opponent...

On the one hand, sure this victory is beneath her, not worthy of her.

On the other hand, there's such a perfect poetic justice that in order to become the first woman elected President of the United States, she has to defeat one of the most repugnant misogynists the world has ever seen. This election is the embodiment of Bill Clinton's old line about "nothing wrong with America that can't be fixed by what is right with America." Donald Trump is EVERYTHING that's wrong with America in human form. Hillary Clinton is what's right with America. It's practically mythic.
posted by wabbittwax at 8:26 AM on October 8, 2016 [106 favorites]

Ugh, sallybrown, I know you're right and that makes it even worse.
posted by lauranesson at 8:26 AM on October 8, 2016

Robert De Niro released a video: "I'd like to punch Donald Trump in the face."
posted by Room 641-A at 8:26 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

I have a feeling that 2020 is going to be a shitshow of candidates saying things like, "Well, yeah, sure, I did want to force women to have funerals for their miscarriages, but at least I'm not Donald Trump!"
posted by Apoch at 8:27 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

More and worse oppo coming

If company man Hugh Hewitt's saying that, and not just the prominent #NeverTrump campaign strategists, then I think we're talking about an ETA measured in hours and not days.

The private polls already showed that Trump was heading off a cliff, so this tape gave elected GOPers permission to jump before the debate.

Remember, though, the year-long voter dynamic: Trump's supporters were general election GOP voters who showed up for the primary instead of waiting for other people to pick a candidate on their behalf. Nobody currently self-identifying as 'deplorable' or wearing t-shirts like this to rallies is going to accept an October replacement on the ballot.
posted by holgate at 8:27 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Relax. It's over, we're safe.

Foreign governments may be plotting October surprises. It would only take one to vault a raving bully into the lead. Clinton should predict it first, because he can't without looking like he planned it.
posted by Brian B. at 8:29 AM on October 8, 2016

Seems to me like the next oppo will drop in Hillary's closing statement on Sunday night. It was insanely effective in Debate 1 and Trump's camp has shown they can't play any kind of defense against it except tweets at 3am.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:30 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

What I really want, but don't have the technical skills to make, is a list of every Republican legislator who endorsed Trump, and empty checkboxes besides them of whether or not they have withdrawn their endorsement or asked Trump to resign. And then we go down them, one by one, and ask. "Do you still endorse Trump today?"
posted by corb at 8:30 AM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]

David Fahrenthold is going to win like a million Pulitzers, right? They're going to retire his jersey.
posted by dismas at 8:31 AM on October 8, 2016 [81 favorites]

There is to be another revelation about Trump and women in NY Times Opinion page Sunday
posted by Postroad at 8:31 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

It's not about the election or politics so it's bound to be lost in all of this, but at least one part of what Trump says in that video is (gulp!) true. Awful, to be sure, but true.

You can get away with the things he describes, or anything horrible, when you're a star. There's no need to be human anymore, once you reach a certain stratum. Everyone from your staff to your employers to the media protects and insulates you, and your average weekend could include a half-dozen things any regular civilian would be shunned or fired or jailed for.

We have been giving celebrities a pass on being human forever. And we're increasingly valuing people based on celebrity alone, and letting our children look up to them as role models, instead of admiring actual people.

And then, you know... here we are.
posted by rokusan at 8:31 AM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]

Costa Bomb: Just spoke w/ TRUMP by phone... “I’d never withdraw. I’ve never withdrawn in my life,” he told @washingtonpost.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 8:31 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

Scottie N Hughes plumbing new depths in surrogacy.
posted by Talez at 8:32 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

I understand the thought process that thinks Hillary deserved a better opponent but on the other hand I kind of want to see the "Boys being Boys" bullshit that has excused men like Trump for ages being utterly vanquished by Hillary. Yeah it will still be around afterwards just like electing Obama didn't magically make the US a post-racial society but it would be a major step forward.

And quite frankly if the Republicans want to give Clinton a serious challenger they are welcome to start trying to pick their 2020 nominee now because they will be challenging a President Clinton.
posted by vuron at 8:32 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

And he had to make that a sex joke too. Or did I read too much into that?
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:32 AM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

Robert De Niro released a video: "I'd like to punch Donald Trump in the face."

I guess this means Donald Trump has lost the anti-vaxxer vote.
posted by My Dad at 8:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Brian B., I just do not see how military aggression by N Korea would push Trump over Hillary. In what world view (even far right) do people think he'd be a more level head, stronger opponent to saber rattling? What would he do, offer to send them nukes?
posted by instamatic at 8:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

@SopanDeb
Trump tells @WSJ that there is "zero" chance he will quit and that he's getting "unbelievable" support:
http://on.wsj.com/2dUZSmb
posted by acidic at 8:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

I don't remember if I read the comment on the last thread or under one of the numerous news articles I read last night. It was in reference to why he has fixated on the Bill Clinton and that line of attack even though he has been advised over and over not to go there. Trumps mirror is part of it, being pissed at Hillary for beating him is part of it but another part is that he DOES really think he's running against Bill Clinton. His misogyny will not allow himself to see Hillary as anything but an extension of Bill. Bill is the real candidate in his mind and will be running things as much or more then Hillary.
posted by Jalliah at 8:34 AM on October 8, 2016 [26 favorites]

Bob Costa just talked to Trump.
posted by andreap at 8:35 AM on October 8, 2016

I still can't believe this. I mean, we've known for a long time that Trump was this kind of person, anyone that lived in NYC in the 80s and 90s can tell you all kinds of stories. (I never did, but friends did.) Why this, and why now? It's a mystery. I guess it really is just racism.

Also, this "everyone does it" is such bullshit. I have never said anything remotely like that, and I have not heard anyone I know talk that way. (But then again, I don't know any Trump supporters, and I don't hang out with "bros", or sales/marketing people; I live and work in San Francisco.)

For the first time this campaign I have some hope!

Time to send HRC some more money...
posted by phliar at 8:35 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

“I’d never withdraw. I’ve never withdrawn in my life,” he told @washingtonpost.

He just can't stop himself, can he?
posted by nubs at 8:35 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

I do feel bad for Tic-Tacs getting their name dragged into this.

The Tic Tac social media guy should just tweet out a simple 'help :( '
posted by mazola at 8:35 AM on October 8, 2016 [29 favorites]

FTFY:

You can get away with the things he describes, or anything horrible, when you're [rich]. There's no need to be human anymore, once you reach a certain [tax bracket]. Everyone from your staff to your employers to the media protects and insulates you, and your average weekend could include a half-dozen things any regular civilian would be shunned or fired or jailed for.

This is America; stardom isn't necessary. What people without regular exposure to the very rich (and their children) are witnessing now is more privilege than stardom, and therefore much much more common than you want to imagine.
posted by blue suede stockings at 8:35 AM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

Costa Bomb: Just spoke w/ TRUMP by phone... “I’d never withdraw. I’ve never withdrawn in my life,” he told @washingtonpost.

That has to be one of the poorest word choices he could have used.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:36 AM on October 8, 2016 [25 favorites]

Trump tells @WSJ that there is "zero" chance he will quit and that he's getting "unbelievable" support:

Yes, support for you right now is certainly unbelievable, all right.
posted by corb at 8:37 AM on October 8, 2016 [24 favorites]

I've never withdrawn in my life! Not even when I was asked to! Nay, BEGGED to!
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:37 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

Relax. It's over, we're safe.

The Trump campaign is totally relying on that sentiment.

Remember Brexit, and get out and vote.
posted by flabdablet at 8:38 AM on October 8, 2016 [66 favorites]

Scottie N Hughes plumbing new depths in surrogacy.

Maria Cardona employed one of the best "oh, sweeties" ever.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]

I'm glad Trump isn't leaving. Conservatives shouldn't be let off the hook for their choices. He'll captain the sinking ship that will rightfully drag all of them down for hopefully another couple decades.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 8:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

Costa Bomb: Just spoke w/ TRUMP by phone... “I’d never withdraw. I’ve never withdrawn in my life,” he told @washingtonpost.

Are we not doing phrasing?
posted by vuron at 8:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [29 favorites]

*Hillary staffer twirls hair and puts finishing touches on tenth Mike Pence attack ad*

*Other Hillary staffer sips coffee, gazing fondly at stack of Kasich oppo research*
posted by acidic at 8:40 AM on October 8, 2016 [24 favorites]

Has anyone seen ads attacking republican candidates for congress on this? Is there a concerted push yet?

Hang this around all their necks. I'm so fucking done.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:41 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

When I was a child I had a lot of dreams in which I was trying to catch up with a bus, which would linger at stops just ahead until I got close, at which point it would take off and linger at the next stop. I mention it, because trying to get to the end of these thread reminds me of it. Every time I reach the bottom, there's a hundred new comments that have appeared while I was reading.

I wrote a comment a few days ago about the fact that the only person in public life I'd ever seen who was so much of a cartoon character through and through as Trump was Savile, but it didn't seem appropriate at the time. The only difference seems to be that no one has ever accused Trump of necrophilia. But there's the same bubble of godlike power he's sitting in, believing he's untouchable (and to be honest, Savile was). It's like a giant balloon filled with sewage - it fills and fills and just hangs there until you forget it's there. But it just takes one pinprick and you're knee-deep in sewage.

I kind of guiltily want to admit that one reason I want to see Trump punished, is from being in rooms with men mouthing off like that and not having the power to say or do anything - even if I wanted to my tongue wouldn't move. It's kind of brutalising. It's even worse when the women they're talking about are your friends. Don't assume that men who don't openly object necessarily approve - we often don't have the power to do anything, and being put into that position of powerlessness is also a kind of abuse. I realise this is not in the least bit helpful and my feelings are the last thing that anyone else cares about, but I need to pay a little bit of attention to my own psychological wellbeing because it's in here with me. Anyway, yes, kill the pig.

And he's not an Alpha male. I've known one or two - they're a lot rarer than people think - and if you actually are Alpha, you don't have to try, you don't have to compete like that, and you certainly don't have to put down those around you. Working so hard to assert one's strength is an admission of weakness.

Oh, look thirty-five new comments since I started writing. Excuse me, I have a bus to catch.
posted by Grangousier at 8:42 AM on October 8, 2016 [57 favorites]

Phrasing!
posted by Fizz at 8:42 AM on October 8, 2016

Scottie N Hughes plumbing new depths in surrogacy.

Hughes: "This morning, no woman woke up affected by those words."

That's the kind of spin one sees when a toilet is flushing.
posted by Short Attention Sp at 8:42 AM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]

Welp. Trump's rape charges are showing up on the facebook now.
posted by Cookiebastard at 8:43 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Kelly Ayotte says she will not vote for Trump.

Also, my favorite suggestion is "Maybe someone should tell Trump that withdrawing from the race is like declaring bankruptcy."
posted by corb at 8:44 AM on October 8, 2016 [55 favorites]

Scottie N Hughes plumbing new depths in surrogacy.

Did... did she legitimately just say "this morning, no woman woke up affected by these words"?

I'm gonna let Elmo take this one.
posted by Defying Gravity at 8:45 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Foreign governments may be plotting October surprises. It would only take one to vault a raving bully into the lead.

I don't believe that's supported by what we know about this race. Lots of scary things have happened in the last few months, and none of them particularly benefitted Trump. Would anyone not currently voting for Trump feel safer to have him in charge during a nuclear crisis? Trump winning is, barring unprecedented polling failure on a massive scale, only really conceivable if some third party really does have some amazing and terrible revelation about HRC. And I just don't believe they do - it seems wildly improbable that, after decades of scrutiny, there is some appalling Clinton secret just waiting to come out.
posted by howfar at 8:45 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Brian B., I just do not see how military aggression by N Korea would push Trump over Hillary. In what world view (even far right) do people think he'd be a more level head, stronger opponent to saber rattling? What would he do, offer to send them nukes?

The far right is voting for Trump regardless, and in a chaotic, nervous election, unsure voters will remain so under fear but their emotions will likely match the most aggressive candidate. Prepping them would be a safer strategy than not.
posted by Brian B. at 8:46 AM on October 8, 2016

I'm glad Trump isn't leaving. Conservatives shouldn't be let off the hook for their choices. He'll captain the sinking ship that will rightfully drag all of them down for hopefully another couple decades.

In the words of the sorely missed Molly Ivins (as well as several other folksy types), "You got to dance with them what brung you."

Dance, you slimy troglodytes, dance!
posted by bibliowench at 8:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [22 favorites]

"Maybe someone should tell Trump that withdrawing from the race is like declaring bankruptcy."

Declaring moral bankruptcy.
posted by Grangousier at 8:47 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

But if Trump's spin is smart couldn't they style this as emblematic of his terrible behaviour before he found Jesus etc? Bush did that with drink driving etc.

I guess he would have to break down sobbing on TV etc, but people love a redemption story.
posted by Coda Tronca at 8:47 AM on October 8, 2016

Kelly Ayotte finally jumped ship. Might be enough to save her.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:49 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Rats fleeing a sinking ship: still rats.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:50 AM on October 8, 2016 [39 favorites]

Me and my partner in righteousness have spent the entire day so far lounging around, eating bacon bagels, drinking coffee, and swapping between Metafilter and Twitter amid exclamations of shock and awe as each new morsel falls from the cyberheavens.

Schadensloth is a thing. Two great vices in one!
posted by Devonian at 8:50 AM on October 8, 2016 [83 favorites]

> Kelly Ayotte finally jumped ship. Might be enough to save her

If you're not voting for Trump because of how he treats women, but think Pence is A-OK for the ladies, I don't know what to tell you.
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:52 AM on October 8, 2016 [67 favorites]

But if Trump's spin is smart couldn't they style this as emblematic of his terrible behaviour before he found Jesus etc?

He's literally incapable of that. Apologising would make him look weak. Losers apologise.

And his spin isn't smart and never has been.
posted by Grangousier at 8:52 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

The Trump is a "role model" comment in her debate is going to doom Ayotte.

I'm hoping that McCain gets called to task as well so that the fiction of him being some principled maverick is forever revealed as false.
posted by vuron at 8:52 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

But if Trump's spin is smart...

It isn't.
posted by harriet vane at 8:54 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Kelly Ayotte finally jumped ship. Might be enough to save her.

Hassan has already hammered her prior to her final decision about her umming and ahhing and considering the political calculus. Ayotte had no winning move and the longer she took to make it the worse it looked. Now Hassan is going to be beating her over the head with this until election day.

Hopefully the people of NH will respond in kind. Ayotte has been particularly resilient in the polls when it comes to being a political coward.
posted by Talez at 8:54 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

There's so such fucking thing as an Alpha Male.

Christ, I think I sprained my finger favoriting this.
posted by Mooski at 8:55 AM on October 8, 2016 [31 favorites]

So, we now see in a clinical sense, Donald Trump's projections of his own behavior on immigrants from Mexico. Now we see what a little "B-word" he is, by his own admission; though I am not sure that creatures whose cis female populations are named thus, deserve this projection of Mr. Trumps.

Utah is dropping him like a rock, because his stuff with women is way too close to home. Utah pretends to be nice about women, but I live in the exact town, that is the number 2 lowest pay ratio women/men in the nation, number 1 is also here. There are all kinds of ways to abuse women, many not as personal as Mr. Trump's, but devastating all the same. Please wake up Utah Eweople!
posted by Oyéah at 8:55 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

Pence is no longer attending Ryan's Wisconsin event.
posted by chris24 at 8:56 AM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

Pence has also been disinvited from Paul Ryan's event today. (MSNBC)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:56 AM on October 8, 2016 [20 favorites]

The bona fide reports that Trump is being asked to step down are just surreal.
posted by My Dad at 8:57 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

...but Pence swears that Trump never said any of those things.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:57 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

May I also suggest, Paul Ryan has been the Republican candidate all along.
posted by Oyéah at 8:57 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Apologising would make him look weak. Losers apologise.

But he has already apologised... the more fake the better, for TV. I dunno, I just have a feeling a TV special where he begs forgiveness because now he has found the Lord to heal his ways could actually see him put on votes.
posted by Coda Tronca at 8:57 AM on October 8, 2016

Might be enough to save her.

Trump's been filling NH venues since the primary. Can Ayotte really do without the snakeflag demographic?
posted by holgate at 8:58 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

"...but Pence swears that Trump never said any of those things."

I'm going to go and make some tea just so I can spit it out onto my keyboard.
posted by I-baLL at 8:58 AM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]

Ronny Chieng goes to Chinatown to interview folks in the wake of that super-racist O'Reilly Factor clip, and it's supremely satisfying.
posted by salix at 8:59 AM on October 8, 2016 [20 favorites]

Make no mistake, ladies: Trump may be the face of your rapist, but Pence is every judge who made sure he got away with it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:00 AM on October 8, 2016 [204 favorites]

I have to say I'm really beginning to feel sorry for the moderators. Yeah for the most part these threads have pretty much eliminated all the bitter recriminations of the primaries and focused on the crazy of the general but still that's a lot of comments to go through.

Although they should take heart as we only have 1 month remaining of ElectionFilter which is probably no more than 5-6 threads + the inevitable 2-3 on November 8th.
posted by vuron at 9:00 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

May I also suggest, Paul Ryan has been the Republican candidate all along.

What does this mean, in plain English? I don't understand. He's very clearly not the Republican candidate. That person is Donald J. Trump.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 9:00 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

We have been giving celebrities a pass on being human forever.

"Celebrities," sure sure. None of the men who've grabbed my tits and ass over the years have been famous. Or rich, either. we can blame celebrities if we want to - certainly that's the go-to position of every unfamous unrich MRA schlub who claims that the only reason some bitch turned down his gropevance was because he wasn't rich and famous. and blaming the upper class is only better if we admit that men function as a class in many respects. do we, though?
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:00 AM on October 8, 2016 [44 favorites]

Remember Brexit, and get out and vote.

"Elect Donald Trump. Make him the squinty orange face of your nation and Europe will be far too busy vomiting in horror to think about our little blunder."
posted by bibliowench at 9:01 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

First Skittles, now Tic Tacs. Leave the candy alone, Donnie.
posted by jonmc at 9:02 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

So I was just having this conversation with a friend, and made this observation about the Breitbart baby bunny "scandal": I think we're in a sector of the population where I'm not even joking when I say a few of them probably did abuse animals as kids and think it was funny and they don't understand why a girl was within her rights to stop that.

And I think that made me realize something here. Trump doesn't think he did anything wrong and he really, really doesn't understand why anybody else would think he did anything wrong. A lot of his supporters, like the Breitbart crowd, are going to feel similarly.

They have no ability to understand that some men legitimately think that women are people--even just in the way that Paul Ryan does, I'm talking an incredibly low bar here. They think women are things and this is such a fundamental part of their world view, that men are entitled to take what they want and this includes women, that it is going to render them completely incapable of dealing with this. Trump isn't just a bad presidential candidate, though he is; he's a candidate who has a giant glowing weak spot and he has no idea it's there, even when the entire country is shouting at him. There are people who legit think this is going to just blow over. I don't think I'd quite believed that could be true until now, but I think it is.
posted by Sequence at 9:03 AM on October 8, 2016 [36 favorites]

What I really want, but don't have the technical skills to make, is a list of every Republican legislator who endorsed Trump, and empty checkboxes besides them of whether or not they have withdrawn their endorsement or asked Trump to resign.

This person on Twitter has been sharing a Google doc with who has issued a statement, who unendorsed, who confirmed their previous nonendorsement, etc.

(Also, I ran out of favorites last night, so know that I'm giving you all mind favorites right now.)
posted by melissasaurus at 9:03 AM on October 8, 2016 [20 favorites]

Trump surrogate on MSNBC claims Pence's withdrawal from Wisconsin event is a "scheduling issue."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:04 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Leave the candy alone, Donnie.


Ah that's what happened:

he tried to get himself a candy-date...
posted by Namlit at 9:04 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

PENCE IS OUT FROM WISCONSIN TODAY!

Is he ready to throw the human cheeto under the bus?
posted by Talez at 9:05 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

(I mean: DT's position on women letting you do anything if you're powerful and rich is exactly the position of the reddit creeps who lack all his advantages. he is giving them aid and comfort in their own assaults, as men of his kind always have, across all class strata. They say: you can't believe women who say they don't like being attacked no matter how handsome or rich or famous the attacker is, because look at all these rich famous rapists! THEY say the women liked it! so we all agree, all of us who matter and are in a position to know! case closed!

the difference between not filing charges because you're too realistic or scared to fight and not filing charges because you didn't mind is lost on all of these men. lost deliberately.)
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:06 AM on October 8, 2016 [17 favorites]

Trump surrogate on MSNBC claims Pence's withdrawal from Wisconsin event is a "scheduling issue."

Indeed, it turns out the schedule said "rape apologist", not "unelectable rape apologist."
posted by tonycpsu at 9:07 AM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]

I just have a feeling a TV special where he begs forgiveness because now he has found the Lord to heal his ways could actually see him put on votes.

I will give you a nickel for that feeling.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:07 AM on October 8, 2016

"Some parts of the establishment are choosing to turn their backs." - Trump Senior Campaign Advisor Boris Epshteyn
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:08 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

But if Trump's spin is smart couldn't they style this as emblematic of his terrible behaviour before he found Jesus etc? Bush did that with drink driving etc.

I guess he would have to break down sobbing on TV etc, but people love a redemption story.


I don't doubt that this what they want him to do. He won't do it. He's not even capable of faking it if he was somehow convince it was the only strategy. There were reports from the campaign that the video was delayed because of the time it took to persuade him to do as much as he did do. And it's clear from the video that he was not happy. I expect that the only way they got him to agree at all was if he do his Clinton attack thing.

This morning he's said he won't withdraw. He won't. He's going to crow about his 'support' because that's all he can see. He really does believe he won the last debate. Like it's not him BSing. He believes it because hey look at my rally numbers, look at the online polls, people love me!
posted by Jalliah at 9:09 AM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]

The only difference seems to be that no one has ever accused Trump of necrophilia

Jimmy Savile was accused of necrophillia?!
posted by Flashman at 9:09 AM on October 8, 2016

Rats fleeing a sinking ship: still rats.

This is unfair to rats. For one thing, there are things rats can't stomach.
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:10 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

>Pence's withdrawal from Wisconsin event is a "scheduling issue."

Listen, sorry, I'm not gonna be able to make our 4:00 slamming the test plane into the ground in a giant fireball; I've got blowing the canopy and pulling my fucking ripcord at 3:30.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 9:11 AM on October 8, 2016 [64 favorites]

The sad thing is that the Republican Party and their faithful will learn absolutely nothing of value from Mr. Trump's Wild Ride.

Their lesson will be not that their principles are bad, or their messages, or their methods. It will be that the candidate was 110% of the problem, and we can't understand why people got swept up in a fervor that they didn't completely understand and we'll never let someone like Trump WHO ISN'T EVEN A REAL REPUBLICAN ANYWAY AND CERTAINLY NOT A TRUE CONSERVATIVE on the ticket again and look over there! Hillary murder Benghazi corruption Foundation Bill's penis unfit! Then the usual gang of idiots will scream about how the election was tainted by Trump and therefore Hillary has zero mandate and it's their sworn duty to obstruct her devious and anti-American agenda and expose her evil core to the world.

They will not stop and reflect on, Jesus H. Christ, how did we get to this point as a party? Not one bit. The Very Serious Thinkers wing will use this as a whip to regain some dominance over the party structure but they will carry on with the exact same anti-woman agendas they've been doing before Trump came along.
posted by delfin at 9:11 AM on October 8, 2016 [31 favorites]

It looks like there is a town hall question that can be voted on for the candidates to be asked in the debate: Link

What would you do if someone grabbed you daughter's crotch in a sexual advance?

posted by VTX at 9:11 AM on October 8, 2016 [17 favorites]

@richardhine:
Trump: Don't judge me on the man I was 10 years ago. But please judge Hillary on the man her husband was 20 years ago #TrumpTapes
posted by chris24 at 9:13 AM on October 8, 2016 [79 favorites]

I never took him seriously. I didn’t even think he would last in New York, because people hated him once they got to know him. He was a horse’s ass. Still is.

-from the elderly gossip columnist Liz Smith, in the New Yorker
posted by kozad at 9:13 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

(Er, the link I meant to include when calling Pence a rape apologist was this one. Carry on.)
posted by tonycpsu at 9:13 AM on October 8, 2016

"in plain English?" In plain English, Trump grabbed this campaign season, but was never the bona fide Republican candidate, spending his own embezzled monies to do so. He may be the ugly face of that good ol' boy system, but he is not fit to be the out front face. I have opined many a time that the Republican party did not have a real candidate for this election, and that has worried me, because I have wondered what they have up their sleeves.

Paul Ryan has been deliberately kept in the background of this race, and is white as snow blameless, and after Trump's astonishing performance, and the astonishing performance of the media, keeping him on the front page with several images, week after week; someone is going to come out from behind the green curtain, or some event will happen that puts Paul Ryan in the running for the White House, or in the White House. There is more than one way to get there.

For the life of me, I can not see how anyone thought we would elect a member of the rat pack or rat pact, to the presidency. It makes me think there is an alternate plan of huge malfeasance.

I still think that Paul Ryan is going to hit that ticket in the next couple of days, by some miraculous means. If only as Pence's Veep. His role will be to dilute Pence in the public mind.
posted by Oyéah at 9:14 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Several witnesses claim to have seen Savile having sex with mortuary bodies, yes.
posted by Coda Tronca at 9:15 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Never assume Trump has a plan. He just moves from one instantaneous ego gratification to the next. There is no brilliant, evil scheme — there's just the roving garbage pile of pathologies.

Trump's lather.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 9:16 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

This is from a ways up the thread (HOW DO YOU PEOPLE GET UP SO EARLY?????) but:

how are future grade school textbooks going to report on this if it is indeed an inflection point in the campaign?

My guess is that, if Trump loses, this entire thing will be consigned to the dustbin of history.

How many failed candidates for President do you remember from elections you were too young to participate in or which happened before living memory? Aside from Dewey because of the famous image of Truman with that newspaper, or maybe some statesmen who are important for other things but famously never became POTUS, you mostly don't. It will be very easy to pretend the details of this election never happened, and that Hillary Clinton ran against a totally nondescript real estate magnate who just didn't win for whatever reason. At best, this will get trotted out among history buffs as one of our few close calls with fascism, a la Charles Lindbergh or the Know Nothings.

It's much more palatable to remember the historic election of the first female President!!!!!!!!!! It's much less palatable to constantly be reminded how close we came to the edge. "Grab her by the pussy" doesn't even come into it.
posted by Sara C. at 9:17 AM on October 8, 2016 [23 favorites]

Jimmy Savile was accused of necrophillia?!

Yes.

(That article probably deserves a generalised trigger warning.)
posted by Grangousier at 9:17 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

So if Pence quits, what happens? Do they pick a new VP?

Also, who wants to lay odds that 2020 is going to be Ryan/Pence?
posted by blnkfrnk at 9:17 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

But if Trump's spin is smart couldn't they style this as emblematic of his terrible behaviour before he found Jesus etc?

As they say, if ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry Christmas
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:18 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Given the wisdom the GOP has shown in recent history, I'm halfway expecting 2020 to be Trump/Pence again
posted by beerperson at 9:19 AM on October 8, 2016 [29 favorites]

Politics is so febrile at the moment, I'd put evens on Laurel/Hardy 2020...
posted by Devonian at 9:19 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

I still think that Paul Ryan is going to hit that ticket in the next couple of days, by some miraculous means.

This is pure, groundless fantasy.
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:19 AM on October 8, 2016 [32 favorites]

I still think that Paul Ryan is going to hit that ticket in the next couple of days, by some miraculous means. If only as Pence's Veep. His role will be to dilute Pence in the public mind.

Even if this happened, Ryan couldn't win - he can't get on the ballot in Florida, Michigan, Nevada, North Carolina, Ohio, Texas or Virginia (Washington Post link, remember to open in an incognito window).
posted by howfar at 9:20 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

But if Trump's spin is smart couldn't they style this as emblematic of his terrible behaviour before he found Jesus etc?

Nah, in an alternate reality pretty much all he'd have to do is start the debate off by quoting Romans 3:23, utter a simple and final "I'm sorry" (yeah, like that would be possible), and then say they need to get on to more pressing matters so they can help the American people make the right choice when they vote.

The main drawback is that it would eliminate his ability to keep mentioning Bill Clinton for similar mistakes. So far he doesn't seem to be inclined to drop the "but Bill..." stuff because he knows a huge part of his base won't drop it either.
posted by fuse theorem at 9:20 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

"This is pure, groundless fantasy" The money that wants to run this scene is not going to lie down that easily. I think Trump will be over after the town hall on Sunday.
posted by Oyéah at 9:22 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

But if Trump's spin is smart couldn't they style this as emblematic of his terrible behaviour before he found Jesus etc? Bush did that with drink driving etc.

I guess he would have to break down sobbing on TV etc, but people love a redemption story.

I just have a feeling a TV special where he begs forgiveness because now he has found the Lord to heal his ways could actually see him put on votes.

Bush didn't find Jesus & redemption 30 days before an election, though, and the "redemption arc" still requires the offender to spend time in the wilderness - Jim Bakker still had to resign from the PTL, just as one example.

And besides, it just ain't gonna happen. The "defiant apology" video is it - he actually said the words "I'm sorry" and "apologize" and over at r/the_donald it's being lauded as a Work of Genius From A Master Statesman, so undoubtedly Trump's social media is chock-full of people blowing smoke up his ass about how mature and professional he was to even make that video. There's no sobbing breakdown over this coming.
posted by soundguy99 at 9:22 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

The money that wants to run this scene is not going to lie down that easily.

They couldn't keep him off the ticket in the first place. There's no-one driving this clown car.
posted by howfar at 9:25 AM on October 8, 2016 [39 favorites]

The money that wants to run this scene is not going to lie down that easily

The Trump candidacy has put to bed the lie that people with money are at all competent.
posted by beerperson at 9:25 AM on October 8, 2016 [35 favorites]

...Bear with me – this is kind of a stretch – but could it be that a very big creepy clown is actually showing up and menacing us in our streets, woods and schools? That the fear he inspires is spreading, and it’s unclear what is true and what is not? This clown’s mask is a horror show in itself, he wears a terrible wig and, although it is said that he kids a lot, is never funny.

The explanation for October's clown sighting hysteria is staring us in the face
posted by y2karl at 9:25 AM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]

MSNBC is airing Senate candidate Rep. Joe Heck's speech disavowing Trump's comments, and calling for him to get out of the race. He is being booed by presumably a Trump supporter.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:27 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

Oh boy there are so many comments I'm dying to favorite but I hit my limit awhile ago. Every time I read something that I agree with or makes me laugh or gives me pause to think my finger twitches.

I really don't think Pence will be on the Ryan ticket. He will be smeared with Trump grease and stink of loserdom. Maybe Rubio, maybe Joni Ernst or another fresh face. But Pence is done. And so is Christie. And Guiliani. I think those guys are going to find it tough to get booked as speakers.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:27 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

Joe Heck, R-NV Senate candidate, just called for Trump to step down at an event where Romney is speaking. He was booed live on MSNBC

Related: whoever this host is (Kristen something I think?) is just terrible
posted by schadenfrau at 9:28 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

I mean, we're all very focused on the groping scandal (looks like I made it about a week and a half after I swore off these election threads), and Twitter is all very focused on this, and it's dominating Google News…

…but the fact is there really are two Americas. There's Informed America and Uninformed America. Informed America knows the score with Donald Trump, and any members of Informed America who still support him truly deserve the "deplorable" descriptor. Uninformed America has, at best, vague secondhand intimations or a general hunch that he's pretty sleazy and maybe incompetent and probably a liar ("but what politician isn't?"). Their voting pattern, I hypothesize, is based not on information but on reflex. Now, some members of the Uninformed portion will tend to reflexively vote against the Republican…but not, I suspect, most.

I'm sure this comes off as elitist but it is based on face-to-face discussions about this and other elections in a variety of social contexts I've been in. I think many, many Americans—maybe most Americans—are not interested in following politics to even one-tenth the degree that we do in here. (And due to that, this year, they might be more psychologically healthy than us in here.)
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 9:29 AM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]

One downside of Trump dominating the airwaves is that exposure of Hillary's support for Social Security cuts in her speeches to the financial sector will fall under the radar.

It'll be important for all of us to keep the pressure on her to stay true and faithful after inauguration to the policy revisions she made after Sanders and the convention.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 9:30 AM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]

I seriously cannot believe that people keep discussing Bill Clinton as though this is equivalent and as if it were at all ducking relevant when Bill Clinton has never been the candidate.

"Bill Clinton is not the candidate." That's it. That's all they need to say. Over and over again.

Because he fucking isn't.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:31 AM on October 8, 2016 [25 favorites]

I just have a feeling a TV special where he begs forgiveness because now he has found the Lord to heal his ways could actually see him put on votes.

Nope. For every Hillary-hating-evangelical he got from such a stunt, he'd lose a red-pill-redditor that liked him for his "alpha male", "tells it like it is", "isn't a politician" qualities. His refusal to be "PC" or pander for votes is what those guys like about him, and such a blatant selling-out to the Jesus crowd would fly in the face of all that.
posted by mstokes650 at 9:32 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

And he's not an Alpha male. I've known one or two - they're a lot rarer than people think - and if you actually are Alpha, you don't have to try, you don't have to compete like that, and you certainly don't have to put down those around you. Working so hard to assert one's strength is an admission of weakness.

This is something I've been thinking about while looking at the spectacle of Trump.
I was in an abusive relationship, and from the first time I saw him say "trust me", I was disgusted, but also had trigger-reactions. I was very young when it started, and one of the things this guy told me was that "all men are like this, they just pretend to be civilized". Since then, I've had difficulty trusting men, even though I intellectually know people are not all like that. But I've also been observing - trying to get past my fear and anxiety.

The thing is, as Grangousier wrote, real alphas are completely different. When people compare Trump with past womanizing presidents, I think they are generally missing the point completely. I think some high achievers attract attention from both men and women, their very presence is seductive. I have a relative who is so big A alpha, it's almost a joke among his friends, and he is the sweetest, kindest person I know towards everyone.

Back in the day, in a different culture, there was a different view of adultery. My gran told me that because people would not get divorced under any circumstance, some of her friends lived in discreetly open marriages. And there was definitely some power to be had in having affairs. There was a lot of hypocrisy all around, as she explained it.

Today, things are different, and being able to control ones impulses has become part of what is cool, like eating your vegetables and working out. Look at the Obamas.

If I'm rambling it's because Trump causes literal pain in my brain.
posted by mumimor at 9:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [27 favorites]

lol redditors don't vote
posted by beerperson at 9:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

Holy fucking shit.
posted by medusa at 9:34 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

This is all happening so fast now, I feel like the Republican Party itself is crumbling. Something big is afoot.
posted by sallybrown at 9:34 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

@TheShrillest GOP 2014: Marriage is between ONE MAN and ONE WOMAN, that's GOD'S design. GOP 2016: King David had 500 concubines what's the big deal

I sure hope Sean Hannity has to pay for that concubine remark

Anecdotal Evidence Dept.: For my Evangelical Father in Law this was the final straw. He is out and he won't be voting at all. With any luck he will be representative of a great many Republicans and Pat "Bathroom Bill" Mcrory will be out and take Senator Burr with him.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:35 AM on October 8, 2016 [75 favorites]

Allegedly the other woman Trump was speaking about (the hot wife who wouldn't have sex with him) was Nancy O'Dell. As much as it pains me to say about this scum, I don't think anything he's said about women will lose him many voters. His fanbase already hate women, and were probably already mentally high-fiving his comments about grabbing pussy. They would love to do it themselves and see him as their hero. They probably find his comments hilarious. I can't even behave civilly towards anyone once I find out they're voting for this piece of shit.
posted by the webmistress at 9:37 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

"Bill Clinton is not the candidate." That's it. That's all they need to say. Over and over again.

I've been saying "That stuff, plus his two terms as elected president, sure does disqualify him from being president now!"

It's fun.
posted by Cookiebastard at 9:37 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

Seeing Mitt-Bot on MSNBC quoting Reagan in support of GOP candidates and disavowing Trump's statements suggests that, to the extent that the GOP party apparatus has any control over the clown car at this point, they're going to refocus their efforts on trying to protect down-ballot races. Any effort rearranging deck chairs on the Presidential race is wasted now -- they just need to fight to keep the Senate, and probably the House at this point.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:37 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

"Holy fucking shit."

Wait, what? What did I miss?
posted by I-baLL at 9:37 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

With respect to this:

...Bear with me – this is kind of a stretch – but could it be that a very big creepy clown is actually showing up and menacing us in our streets, woods and schools? That the fear he inspires is spreading, and it’s unclear what is true and what is not? This clown’s mask is a horror show in itself, he wears a terrible wig and, although it is said that he kids a lot, is never funny.
The explanation for October's clown sighting hysteria is staring us in the face

My kid's school actually had a mass shooting threat from the creepy clown contingent, so I've been thinking about them a lot recently. And I've been waiting and waiting for an alt-right connection to surface. Surely I can't be the only person waiting to see if some of these clowns have pointy hoods, can I?
posted by instamatic at 9:38 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

…but the fact is there really are two Americas. There's Informed America and Uninformed America. Informed America knows the score with Donald Trump, and any members of Informed America who still support him truly deserve the "deplorable" descriptor. Uninformed America has, at best, vague secondhand intimations or a general hunch that he's pretty sleazy and maybe incompetent and probably a liar ("but what politician isn't?"). Their voting pattern, I hypothesize, is based not on information but on reflex. Now, some members of the Uninformed portion will tend to reflexively vote against the Republican…but not, I suspect, most.

I don't think there are two Americas, really. I think there is a normal distribution of information and education, like pretty much everything everywhere.

What there is is an unprecedented level of polarisation in American politics - and US politics has, for decades, been more partisan and polarised than that of most other stable democracies. You're right that a lot of people will reflexively vote for Trump. The events of the campaign have shown that, no matter how bad it gets, a lot of people will simply never vote for the candidate with a D . But there little evidence that this correlates with education or information - it's simply a deep cultural divide.

The correlation between being wrong and being stupid is massively weaker than you'd think.
posted by howfar at 9:38 AM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]

> Is there really going to be someone who doesn't hear about "grab them in the pussy" because it came out on a Friday?

I told the story of Trump's tax return (well, first page) leaking to someone last week. Even if this lasts past the weekend (and it will), that's still no guarantee. People who duck out of work early on Friday to camping for the weekend may not even have cellphone signal, even if they wanted to check the news, and some of them so out of "evens" they had to leave civilization.
posted by fragmede at 9:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Surely I can't be the only person waiting to see if some of these clowns have pointy hoods, can I?

Based on the "Clown lives matter" type comments in certain spots over on Reddit, I wouldn't be surprised.
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:40 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

I told the story of Trump's tax return (well, first page) leaking to someone last week. Even if this lasts past the weekend (and it will), that's still no guarantee. People who duck out of work early on Friday to camping for the weekend may not even have cellphone signal, even if they wanted to check the news, and some of them so out of "evens" they had to leave civilization.

Those people don't vote.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:41 AM on October 8, 2016

@BraddJaffy: Video: Mitt Romney says he was "offended and dismayed" by Trump tape, says it was "degrading to our women"

Our women? Not better, dude.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:41 AM on October 8, 2016 [85 favorites]

As much as it pains me to say about this scum, I don't think anything he's said about women will lose him many voters. His fanbase already hate women, and were probably already mentally high-fiving his comments about grabbing pussy.

It's not as if literally 100% of Trump supporters are the red pill MRA fuckfaces we see on TV. For every one of them, there are people who do not like Trump at all but have been willing to tolerate him because [Supreme Court/abortion/guns/whatever]. Some fraction of those men and women is totally able to be swayed, AS HAS BEEN PERSONALLY ATTESTED TO IN THIS VERY THREAD.

The abortion thing is particularly salient. There are MANY Republican women who genuinely and sincerely think abortion is a moral evil that they are obliged to fight, but those same women are the people most likely to say "ok, enough is enough" after these most recent comments, not to mention what is sure to come out in the days and weeks to come.

Those people exist. Let's stop pretending they don't.
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:42 AM on October 8, 2016 [42 favorites]

I just got off the phone with my mom, who really, really hates Hillary. My mom is a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat, and she was always going to vote for whomever was the Democratic nominee, but she despises Hillary Clinton and I think was kind of mad at me for volunteering for her. My mom says that Hillary reminds her of all the feminists who treated her like dirt in the '70s because she had a traditionally-female job, and I'm not even sure what to say to that. So anyway, we talked about the tapes and how Donald Trump reminded us of every predatory privileged asshole who'd ever known he could get away with harassing and demeaning us, and she told me that she signed up to go to Pennsylvania and campaign for Hillary. So Hell has frozen over, and I actually do think this is going to make a difference.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:43 AM on October 8, 2016 [186 favorites]

Ryan couldn't win - he can't get on the ballot in Florida

isn't the EC structured weird though? You vote for the Party, not the Party's candidates per se, and that slate of Electors votes in the actual person when the Electoral College meets in December?

So AFAIK a vote for "Trump/Pence" is actually a vote for a GOP elector at the state's EC votorama in December. (?)
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 9:43 AM on October 8, 2016

Heck is getting booed as he says Trump should step down. "I'm so disappointed in you," one yells.
This is what the Republicans have wrought.
posted by Talez at 9:44 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

I'm worried that the historical significance of the election of the first female president is going to be overshadowed by some other historical firsts. The first election where one or possibly both candidates on a ticket resign or drop out shortly before the vote? The first election where Electoral College voters cast their vote for someone other than the name on the general ballot?

This has the potential to put a big asterisk beside Hillary Clinton's name in the history books, with the implication that she only won because her primary opposition imploded.

For that I hope both Trump and Pence remain the GOP candidates and take the loss.
posted by rocket88 at 9:44 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

This is so bad already ... and the bigger issue is anyway always that Trump seems to be comfortable, no, positively eager to misuse whichever power he feels he has at a given moment. I shudder to think about what he thinks has happened in those last 11 years. HOW has he (in his book) become more mature?
posted by Namlit at 9:45 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

I think there is a normal distribution of information...What there is is an unprecedented level of polarisation in American politics

That polarisation extends to information and sources of information; hardcore conservatives tend to rarely stray from the right-wing media bubble of Fox News, Hannity and Limbaugh on talk radio, websites like the Blaze and redstate.com, and certain areas of Reddit, and frequently actively disdain mainstream media sources that aren't explicitly partisan (NYT, Washington Post, non-Fox news, etc) as displaying "liberal bias". They either aren't aware of them because they won't read/watch etc as a matter of principle, or they actively reject them as reporting anything consistent with reality as they understand it. So yeah, there's Uninformed America, and there's Misinformed America (and there's probably a degree of overlap between those two).
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 9:45 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

isn't the EC structured weird though? You vote for the Party, not the Party's candidates per se, and that slate of Electors votes in the actual person when the Electoral College meets in December?

This is so fundamentally undemocratic that it kind of makes my skin crawl that we're talking about it like it's some great hail mary option. If the Republicans are stupid enough to pull anything like this, they will be directly responsible for the dozens of Wacos that follow when the 10% of ultra-die-hard Trump supporters correctly insist that the democratic process has been totally subverted.
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

As Brian Beutler notes, the idea that the institutional GOP can swap out the ballots even as pRick Scott won't extend the Florida registration deadline shows a staggering sense of entitlement towards power. You don't get a do-over, people.
posted by holgate at 9:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [34 favorites]

It's not as if literally 100% of Trump supporters are the red pill MRA fuckfaces we see on TV. For every one of them, there are people who do not like Trump at all but have been willing to tolerate him because [Supreme Court/abortion/guns/whatever]. Some fraction of those men and women is totally able to be swayed

Honestly, this is why I'm not that worked up about comments like "offensive to our women" and the like.

It is probably more likely that framing pussygate as a crime against the natural patriarchal order of things (a crime against our property) will get through to the "hold your nose and vote Trump" types than framing this in the kind of feminist context that feels more natural to people like me. And at this point, I feel like whatever gets the job done. Especially since this is all coming from Republicans, so it's not like we have to come up with the icky patriarchal framings ourselves.

It's not like I didn't know that Romney, Ryan, Pence, et al were part of the patriarchy in the most literal possible sense.
posted by Sara C. at 9:49 AM on October 8, 2016 [19 favorites]

The first election where one or possibly both candidates on a ticket resign or drop out shortly before the vote?

Why on earth would Clinton drop out now?

Ohhhh, Pence, got it.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 9:49 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

*shimmy* Whoo. Okay.

Caught up (probably for the next thirty seconds only). So many things to say that I'm having what I call a collision in the remarks queue.

In no particular order, then:

• Those from up in the thread who mentioned they'd like to vandalize Trump/Pence signs but obviously won't do it: I wouldn't worry about it, no need to vandalize any more. To some significant percentage of their owners and viewers, the big name printed on those looks like enough of a vandalism itself now, anyway. At least going by the reports we've been getting about disendorsements, rage, and disillusionment on Facebook.
• No, Paul Ryan, I'm not to be "revered." I'm to be respected. As a human being. Kindly shut the hell up, please.
• Similarly to everyone who makes it a point to mention that they have a daughter as they express their outrage. "I'll only come out against something evil if/when it personally affects me/my family" had been a position I've found infuriating, but tolerated; except. Guys. If you have a daughter, you must have had an intimate relationship with said daughter's mother at some point. Predating your daughter, even. Awareness of what affects your loved ones: You're Doing It Wrong.
• *insert the usual treatise about internalized misogyny here*
• *insert the usual rant about hypocrisy here*
• I'm in the throes of many many conflicting feelings. There is poetic justice in that it's what he undeniably said about his treatment of women which seems to be what broke the camel's back; but the scary clownhouse he exposed–people who cheered The Wall, people who were emboldened in their racism and misogyny, the insinuations of voter fraud and inciting violence at the polls [1], the tax fraud, the lint clinging all over him and his supporters which obviously came from a Russian pocket, the total devotion to word salads, the obvious lack of any sort of acumen, or respect for people, country, or procedure, the... yeah no I can't possibly finish the list. I don't think there's an end to that list. Given all that, and especially especially the racism and xenophobia, it feels... unfair, a little bit, somehow, that his downfall may be described as being from this one single thing.
• How can something feel like perfect poetic justice and an anticlimax at the same time? That, my friends, I can tell you in one word: 2016!
• I'm still afraid about the election and what may come afterwards, a little bit. But less than I was three days ago.
• We may not have to confront The Donald any more, but we still definitely, absolutely have to confront those who went right along and embraced the utter vileness he worked to normalize for his own gain.

I'm sure I'm missing/forgetting some things that I wanted to, but this is long enough already.


[1] I'm sorry, "encouraging election observers."
posted by seyirci at 9:49 AM on October 8, 2016 [19 favorites]

@LindseyGrahamSC:
"Name one sports team, university, publicly-held company, etc. that would accept a person like this as their standard bearer?"
posted by chris24 at 9:49 AM on October 8, 2016 [38 favorites]

This has the potential to put a big asterisk beside Hillary Clinton's name in the history books, with the implication that she only won because her primary opposition imploded.

You say that like it's a bad thing, but to me that reads like a one-two punch to the dark underbelly of the American psyche.

Now if we can just get a couple good kicks in while it's down.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 9:49 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

isn't the EC structured weird though? You vote for the Party, not the Party's candidates per se, and that slate of Electors votes in the actual person when the Electoral College meets in December?

No? Pretty sure the EC vote is for a specific person, not a party.

I don't think there are any procedural tricks the GOP can pull at this point to salvage themselves.
posted by dis_integration at 9:50 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

The accusation is that Russia will hack the election at the voting booth. The election is already hacked on Facebook, Reddit, every comment section, every way it can be hacked, and by parties outside the US. The great snake of information and disinformation is running at full speed. I took a training out of the State of Utah division of Arts Museums and Culture, change leader training. The main talking point about making change, at all, was that emotion trumps everything. It is amazing that name pops in there, but that is the exact statement.

Opinion creators have grabbed onto the energy of the disenfranchised by economic and social forces. By disenfranchised I mean, they suddenly reason they have no power, and that realization has been carefully channeled in to thinking that programs like food stamps, medical care, and minimum wage standards, and immigrants are the cause of what they are lacking in their lives. A certain, huge portion of this has come from abroad, and carefully crafted.

When we all took tests about local vernacular, when we volunteered out dialects for scrutiny, then that is one way non native elements have been able to stir the national psyche, they sound like us. Weirdly this election has been thrown to Hillary Clinton, because of the improbable, horrific, reality of Mr. Trump. I tell you this, nowhere has the power of the memory of the web been more awesome, than in the last 24 hours. Every, single, thing at a certain echelon, is available for replay.
posted by Oyéah at 9:50 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

But there little evidence that this correlates with education or information - it's simply a deep cultural divide.

The correlation between being wrong and being stupid is massively weaker than you'd think.

I hope I did not suggest that I consider the "Uninformed" group stupid. If anything, part of my thinking over the past ~month that led me to my previous post has been my hunch that a good portion of Trump supporters are not truly "irredeemable deplorables" but are simply taken in by the con. That doesn't make them stupid, any more than being uninformed does. And one comforting thing about the "Informed"/"Uninformed" framing is that these are attributes that can be changed, likely with less difficulty than changing values and beliefs. I dunno, maybe I'm ultimately just trying to reassure myself.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 9:50 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

> My mom says that Hillary reminds her of all the feminists who treated her like dirt in the '70s because she had a traditionally-female job

I'm a freaking housewife and I don't understand that perspective.

I know what it's like to be sneered at because I lounge around by the pool all day drinking Martinis and reading Agatha Christies, or whatever it is I do, but I haven't seen any of that scorn coming from 21st-century Hillary at all.
posted by The corpse in the library at 9:52 AM on October 8, 2016 [28 favorites]

"Name one sports team, university, publicly-held company, etc. that would accept a person like this as their standard bearer?"


I mean, Penn State comes to mind.
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:52 AM on October 8, 2016 [100 favorites]

The corpse in the library, I think the idea is "what, you think you're better than me?"

In fact I've started to think that this is the "What, you think you're better than me?" election.
posted by Sara C. at 9:53 AM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]

This is so fundamentally undemocratic that it kind of makes my skin crawl that we're talking about it like it's some great hail mary option.

I've seen this pop up a few times, and I think it's important to note that this is not the case. It's not undemocratic. It's the very essence of democracy - an elected system of checks and balances.

Republicans voted for their RNC delegates, and they voted for their RNC members. Those delegates and RNC members, chosen by a democratic process, voted on the rules that allow the RNC to remove a candidate. If the RNC removes the candidate, it will be by duly voted on rules, by duly elected representatives.
posted by corb at 9:53 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

Oh, good, Pence made a statement.
posted by mynameisluka at 9:55 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

>isn't the EC structured weird though? You vote for the Party, not the Party's candidates per se


Constitutionally, parties don't exist. So the electoral college itself doesn't have any such rules. But I guess it's possible that individual states may have laws to that effect? (The enforceability of any such laws would of course be an interesting question...)
posted by shenderson at 9:55 AM on October 8, 2016

"drunkdriving the republic into the nearest elm tree" I can't possibly favorite this enough! Comments like this ease the pain of the whole thing.
posted by Oyéah at 9:55 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

If any replacement couldn't get on the ballot in the following states they simply cannot possibly win.

Florida, Michigan, Nevada, North Carolina, Ohio, Texas or Virginia.

Even assuming Virginia and Michigan are almost certainly blue the current Clinton lead in safely blue states would make any of those a guaranteed 270 for Clinton. This isn't about winning it's about protecting the party over everything else.

But given the clownshow that was the Republican nomination process even if they could get Trump to step down (pro-tip not happening) who would be willing to get up there and get mercilessly pummeled by Clinton? You basically would have to recruit some retiring or already retired.

Maybe they could replace Trump with George Herbert Walker Bush as he still has 4 years of eligibility left.
posted by vuron at 9:55 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

> The corpse in the library, I think the idea is "what, you think you're better than me?"

Sure, but I haven't seen anything coming from the campaign to cause that sort of defensiveness. Are we still mad about the cookies?
posted by The corpse in the library at 9:55 AM on October 8, 2016

Someone has to lead this group called GOP so why not simply call them DEPLORABLE
posted by Postroad at 9:56 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

I want to hear Hillary Clinton use the phrase "Well, how does that grab ya?" to Donald Trump in the next debate, but she's better than that.
posted by Cookiebastard at 9:57 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

It's not undemocratic. It's the very essence of democracy - an elected system of checks and balances.

Thats a republic, not democracy. In fact, the electoral college is pretty fundamentally undemocratic and was designed by the framers of the republic not to be democratic.

Republicans voted for their RNC delegates, and they voted for their RNC members. Those delegates and RNC members, chosen by a democratic process, voted on the rules that allow the RNC to remove a candidate. If the RNC removes the candidate, it will be by duly voted on rules, by duly elected representatives.

Democracy doesn't mean "well look you theoretically approved of the fine print in the party bylaws when you checked R on your voter registration form".

No. Just no. I'm sorry corb, I have respect for you and all, but the Republicans made their bed, and now they need to lie in it. Trying to engineer an undemocratic election where the (addled by Republicans) Supreme Court or the (run by Republicans) Congress chooses the president is NOT HAPPENING and is not how this country works and would be the fucking death knell of anything like democracy.
posted by Sara C. at 9:57 AM on October 8, 2016 [26 favorites]

Obviously, at this late stage, the GOP should be required to carry its nominee to term.
posted by winna at 9:57 AM on October 8, 2016 [245 favorites]

> Oh, good, Pence made a statement.

"As a husband and father..." because lord forbid I stand up for women who aren't related to me.
posted by The corpse in the library at 9:57 AM on October 8, 2016 [29 favorites]

At the very least, for anything like an 11th hour ballot switch to not result in anarchy, I'd want a compromise where Congress rubber stamps the SCOTUS justice of Obama's choice prior to anything else moving forward.
posted by Sara C. at 9:58 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

I want to hear Hillary Clinton say "uh, no, gimme the other hand" when they shake hands at the beginning.
posted by Namlit at 9:59 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Oh, good, Pence made a statement.

"As a husband and father, I was offended by the words and actions described by Donald Trump in the eleven-year-old video released yesterday. I do not condone his remarks and cannot defend them. I am grateful that he has expressed remorse and apologized to the American people. We pray for his family and look forward to the opportunity he has to show what is in his heart when he goes before the nation tomorrow night."

posted by cashman at 9:59 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

I also look forward to Trump showing what is in his heart when he goes before the nation.
posted by vbfg at 9:59 AM on October 8, 2016 [22 favorites]

There's no asterisk. Clinton's been hammering at his gross misogyny all through her campaign, and set the stage for this coup de grace with Machado. Trump's campaign didn't implode. It was deliberately destroyed.
posted by Slap*Happy at 10:00 AM on October 8, 2016 [23 favorites]

John Thune: Donald Trump should withdraw and Mike Pence should be our nominee effective immediately.

All the Johnnies come running lately.

Notice the difference between "I won't vote for Trump because he is a horrible person" and "Trump should leave so we can win".

Everything happening today is the later. There's no reason that this should've been what broke the dam, other than Republicans finally started reading the polls after the first debate, and this was the next, last opportunity to try and save the party and their Supreme Court.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:00 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

If some man is a single orphan, does that mean that he would find these remarks about women fine? It's really strange that everyone must mention how they know a woman. Literally every person was birthed by one.
posted by Trifling at 10:01 AM on October 8, 2016 [41 favorites]

Replacing Trump isn't undemocratic, it's just a waste of time. Nobody's going to care much about the technicality of whether Trump was on the ticket in the states he can still be taken off the ballot. I understand why one might want to "send a message" that the GOP is better than Trump, but the difference between this particular embarrassment and the many thousands of others that they had no problem with is only a difference of degree, not a difference in kind. He was always a misogynist and a creep, and that was visible to anyone who didn't try to avoid seeing it. Wasting time trying to get him off the ballot just takes resources away from trying to keep Hillary from having a governing majority in both congresses. But, hey, if that's how they want to play it... "please proceed", I guess?
posted by tonycpsu at 10:01 AM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]

Oh snap that tweet that winna linked to is a mike drop moment
posted by vuron at 10:01 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

I have a friends wedding to attend to tomorrow. I don't know if we'll end up watching the debate in the bar at the reception, but I could see that happening.

I'm very excited to see tomorrow's New Trump.
posted by mrzarquon at 10:02 AM on October 8, 2016

> Pence made a statement.

"as a husband and a father . . ."

Empathy just isn't conservatives' strong suit I guess.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 10:02 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Anyone else seeing women on facebook starting to use cats as their profile pics?
posted by Cookiebastard at 10:03 AM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]

Empathy is not a family value republicans have ever considered important.
posted by winna at 10:03 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

My bet for 2020, if the Republican Party survives, is Governor Nikki Haley. Anyone even a smidge tainted by Trump is permanently done (even Cruz and Ryan). Kasich will survive this, but he lacks the mojo or whatever needed for a Presidential candidate, always has.

And while the rest of the menacing clowns are dealing with the fallout from Make America Grope Again, Haley is busy dealing with a literal hurricane in an extremely competent and impressive manner (perhaps better than I've ever seen an elected official handle a natural disaster).

Haley comin', yo.
posted by sallybrown at 10:03 AM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]

1. The tape didn't surprise me at all. It's entirely in character.
2. It *does* surprise me a little that major "family values" evangelicals are defending him. I wonder what exactly it would take for them to criticize him.
posted by splitpeasoup at 10:04 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

don't grab my pussy.
posted by changeling at 10:04 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

I'm literally eating popcorn right now with a margarita on the side. My husband is in bed with a cold, it's storming outside, and so I can in all good consciousness sit here and read MetaFilter and Twitter all afternoon.

@MikeMurphy @realDonaldTrump calling emergency mtg in NYC of his top advisors to plot strategy to create new image. Mtg is 3pm today, at Scores..

@SopanDeb Conway just walked into Trump Tower, didn't take questions. That's after Giuliani and Christie.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:05 AM on October 8, 2016 [17 favorites]

How are future grade school textbooks going to report on this? Probably not by mentioning the p-word at all.

A lot of these people will vote for anyone if he's a white male Republican. Even if he was a RealDoll, robot, or cardboard cutout. Anything else does not matter whatsoever. If Trump was raping women on the White House lawn while shooting PoC in the head, it wouldn't matter. Or what acb said about them voting for a General Butt Naked.

Also, yeah, he's right, you can get away with almost anything if you're famous.

Has someone started making an October Surprise advent calendar/list of scandals yet?

It doesn't matter if you drop a news bomb Friday night or not, it will still go off just as bad as if it was Monday morning now.

I can't wait to see SNL tonight.

My mom (not voting for him, but is still getting stuff in the mail) got sent a Trump sticker. Anyone have suggestions as to what I can do with it?
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:05 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'm a freaking housewife and I don't understand that perspective.

I think it's generational, and also that my mom was in a fairly specific social space where she made more traditional decisions but knew a fair number of women who didn't. Think of my mom as one of the secretaries in Mad Men who knew Peggy and Joan but didn't become Peggy or Joan, largely because she decided that raising her kids was more important than advancing in her career. My mom actually was one of the secretaries in Mad Men (publishing, not advertising, but same time and same basic idea) before she got her teaching degree and became a high-school teacher. And she felt like those women sneered at her, literally: she would bump into them and tell them she was teaching high school, and they would make a face and say something snide about how they didn't realize that smart women still chose to do that.

I can't even wrap my head around this, but I'm also a product of a really different time and place, and my feminism is really different from the feminism that my mom encountered in the '60s, '70s and '80s. And she basically says as much: it's different for people my age, and she thinks that feminists my age are much less judgmental. And that's probably true, but I also think she should get over these 30+-year-old hurts, which is probably not something I should say to her.

Are we still mad about the cookies?

Yes. She is literally still mad about the cookies.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:06 AM on October 8, 2016 [55 favorites]

This is the worst possible timing in terms of my actually studying for my exam, which is coming up very rapidly. I think I am literally addicted at this point.
posted by peacheater at 10:06 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

I watched the video, went shaky with nausea and anger, and immediately went to Hillary's site to donate. I want every Republican down every ticket to feel uneasy for the next month. Hell, for the next 50 years. I have never been more on board with anything political (and I loved the hell out of Obama, twice). This November needs to be scorched earth; an apocalyptic referendum on everything the GOP has let fester in their party. Let's do this. It's time.
posted by erinfern at 10:07 AM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]

I wonder what exactly it would take for them to criticize him.

I'm not even kidding here: I think Democrats would have to agree to outlaw abortion and gay marriage and repeal all hate crimes legislation. If they can't win on those topics, they are going to take everybody else down with them.
posted by Sequence at 10:07 AM on October 8, 2016

I'm feeling gloomy this morning because none of this matters. If you are a single-issue (or few-issue) anti-choice voter, this is a bit awkward because of the crude wording but it's still fine, it's entirely fine, because self-identified powerful white men must maintain control of women and, more specifically, access to their vaginas. It doesn't matter how evangelical you are, the fact is men have been empowered by God to own that access, and defending that right is absolutely critical at any cost. Even the guns thing is kind of a smokescreen, because you're not supposed to talk about grabbing pussy in public, so guns ("guns", and not in the "muscular arm" sense) make a nice dogwhistle.

The GOP could replace Trump with an actual supernaturally flaming goat tomorrow and those people for whom this is the actual entirety of their theopolitical philosophy will vote for it and continue to talk out the sides of their mouths about "two evils".
posted by Lyn Never at 10:07 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

Bookmark: self-care is important
posted by infinitewindow at 10:08 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

We pray for his family and look forward to the opportunity he has to show what is in his heart when he goes before the nation tomorrow night.

I hope he means that literally.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:08 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

Thats a republic, not democracy. In fact, the electoral college is pretty fundamentally undemocratic and was designed by the framers of the republic not to be democratic.

I apologize if I misunderstood you - I thought you were talking about the system of representative democracy that we have here in the United States, and that underscores most of our laws. You're right, here we do not have direct democracy in really any aspect of our government.

But I think that the duly elected and representative RNC choosing a new candidate, would be in line with the process of American democracy if they replaced him, and I hope we can pressure them into it.
posted by corb at 10:09 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

I'm worried that the historical significance of the election of the first female president is going to be overshadowed by some other historical firsts.

We were never going to get a clean win. We have bloodied ourselves fighting for every last recognition of our rights we've ever achieved. We're going to come through this covered in mud and Donald's crap, but we're still going to win. That just makes victory even sweeter, to me.
posted by sallybrown at 10:09 AM on October 8, 2016 [81 favorites]

Agreed, peacheater. I have to work this weekend, and instead I'm guzzling sweet, delicious schadenfreude.
posted by Orange Dinosaur Slide at 10:09 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

It was somewhere in the last thread that polling from Ohio where 40% of Trump supporters felt that generic male candidate would be better qualified to be president than generic female candidate.

The idea that the Republican Party can field a "look how progressive we are" candidate successfully seems dubious. Considering any potentially nominee would have to get past the shitshow that is the Republican nominating process which in almost inevitably skewed towards selecting old, white, rich dude the idea that Haley could thread that needle seems totally implausible.

In case you actually think the Republican Party is going to do some soul-searching over this election I can assure you the answer is no. Romney got beaten soundly in 2012 and strategists suggested that they needed to grow the tent but instead the Republicans of 2016 nominated Trump.
posted by vuron at 10:10 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

Have you guys heard about Donald Trump's 2005 offensive comments? That's not a year it's just an integer
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:10 AM on October 8, 2016 [189 favorites]

But I think that the duly elected and representative RNC choosing a new candidate, would be in line with the process of American democracy if they replaced him, and I hope we can pressure them into it.

Just because it may be technically legally possible does not mean that Trump's ardent supporters will roll over and take it. They will revolt if this is done. That's not a better option for the RNC than just taking one on the chin and trying to regroup afterwards.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:11 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

I hope he means that literally.

"Be brave. Tell her the truth. Open your heart."
posted by howfar at 10:11 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

Corb, the Republicans anointing the President of their choice is NOT democratic and the more you say that it is the less respect I have for you.

I get that you never wanted Trump, but you don't get to destroy the country just because you wish that other people in your political party had bothered to google the guy before voting for him.
posted by Sara C. at 10:12 AM on October 8, 2016 [26 favorites]

"f they didn't want to have him then they should've thought about the consequences beforehand. Personal responsibility."
posted by Oyéah at 10:13 AM on October 8, 2016 [48 favorites]

Also, yeah, he's right, you can get away with almost anything if you're famous.

He was not kidding when he said he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and not lose any supporters. He has been coddled all his life and he has gotten away with more shit than we will ever know. It takes some hubris to run for President knowing a) You can never release your taxes, b) you've stiffed thousands of people, c) you have declared bankruptcy 6 times, d) you have cheated on your wives multiple times, e) you have groped and harassed many women, and f) you haven't a clue as to how actual government works or the real responsibilities of the President.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:13 AM on October 8, 2016 [89 favorites]

Just because it may be technically legally possible does not mean that Trump's ardent supporters will roll over and take it. They will revolt if this is done.

Oh yeah, if you thought I was saying this could be done without a full-on Republican civil war, that is definitely not the case. This would leave the GOP in flames for the next year. But it could be done, and I think it's necessary that it be done.
posted by corb at 10:15 AM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]

I'm about to go grocery shopping, and I literally just added popcorn to my list in preparation for tomorrow's debate.

I cannot wait to see the first polls which reflect the groping comments and Trump's abysmal performance in the second debate (yes, I'm assuming that he will fare at least as badly as he did in the first). I guess we'll have to wait until end-of-next-week-ish for that, but I have great expectations.

I made myself a lovely meal to take the edge off the first debate. I've been thinking about what to do for Election Day. I may take the day after off work. I'm debating whether to find a friendly bar to watch the returns, or to stay at home and spend all day making the kitchen smell delicious. Either way, I'm putting serious thought into shopping for the morning-after breakfast – because I could be celebrating, or I could be traumatized. What brunch dishes are suitable for both parties and funerals?

Food is my anti-drug for coping with the home stretch. Scotch is my actual drug. I'm taking a few weeks off from weed, because I'm afraid I'll just have a panic attack.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 10:15 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

It takes some hubris to run for President knowing...

This is a man who thinks hubris, bathos and arrogance were D'Artagnan's mates.
posted by howfar at 10:16 AM on October 8, 2016 [39 favorites]

Oh, good, Pence made a statement.

I view this as a direct threat to Trump. If Trump doesn't come to the debate tomorrow night ready to humble himself like no one ever has before, Pence is going make a move, perhaps drop out.
posted by sallybrown at 10:17 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

SecretLifeofGravy: yeah, and that nobody seems to care about any of the above and that he could still win.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:17 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Well, at least he has the Bloviator Holding Court at the End of the Bar vote locked up...
posted by jim in austin at 10:17 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Oh yeah, if you thought I was saying this could be done without a full-on Republican civil war, that is definitely not the case. This would leave the GOP in flames for the next year. But it could be done, and I think it's necessary that it be done.

I meant revolt with guns.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:18 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Oh, good, Pence made a statement.

@PhilipRucker: A source close to Trump camp told me Pence and his team are “absolutely apoplectic,” "melting down” and "inconsolable.”
posted by dis_integration at 10:18 AM on October 8, 2016 [23 favorites]

@PhilipRucker A source close to Trump camp told me Pence and his team are “absolutely apoplectic,” "melting down” and "inconsolable.”

He is going to have to quit but it is too late to save his political career. Maybe he can go back to talk show host if he is lucky.

For fucking real, like I can't even count the times I've been like "hm I wonder if I could be an alderman given that I'm pretty sure I've talked about dropping acid on metafilter"

I know, right? I mean I would never run for office because I ran away from my husband and had to leave my daughter behind. I figure that shit would kill any chance I had of running for dog catcher.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:19 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

For fucking real, like I can't even count the times I've been like "hm I wonder if I could be an alderman given that I'm pretty sure I've talked about dropping acid on metafilter"

RIGHT?! "It might be cool to run for school board when I'm older but what if they find my years-old dirty fanfic and read it on the local news? Guess I better not!"
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:20 AM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]

I think it is important to not conflate disenfranchisement of Republican voters with respect to the decisions of political parties, which are for better or worse the mediating institutions of democracy as practiced in the United States, with disenfranchisement writ large. Likewise, I think it is important to not conflate quote-unquote civil war within the Republican Party with actual civil war.
posted by AndrewInDC at 10:20 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

So regardless of whether replacing Trump via the electoral college is democratic, can they actually do that WHILE he is refusing to resign? Like, if on November 9th, Trump is all YEAH WE WON can the rest be like "Nope, it's Ryan!" And why would they? They only want to ditch Trump because he can't win.
posted by instamatic at 10:20 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Anyone who doesn't want Trump to become president is free to vote and campaign against him. Calls for him to be replaced are 100% self-serving and have nothing to do with him being a deplorable candidate, only an unelectable one.

It's only "necessary" to replace him if people believe that the GOP should still be able to win an election even after supporting a racist for months and months and months and millions of votes for him.
posted by kiltedtaco at 10:20 AM on October 8, 2016 [77 favorites]

>plot strategy to create new image

Starting tomorrow, he'll be the proto-fascist racist misogynist plutocrat you could have a beer with.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 10:21 AM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]

Trump is a nasty social disease that Pence's political career, just picked up. He thought if he just did it once, maybe went in halfway he could get away with it...
posted by Oyéah at 10:21 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

I've been reading old engineering documents recently, and the numbering of each complete thought and clause in them reminds me of fascinating Twitter-based journalism and critiques, like this and others throughout the election cycle posts. I would not be surprised to find that among a certain subset of conservative engineer-types, reading chains of reason numbered like this is more effective in opening their minds to other viewpoints than reading a wall-o'-words essay with the same exact text.

Twitter forces conciseness but has adapted to long-form persuasion in novel ways, even as its most infamous user clings to Sad! rhetoric.
posted by infinitewindow at 10:21 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

The latest from Ryan
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 10:22 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

@PhilipRucker A source close to Trump camp told me Pence and his team are “absolutely apoplectic,” "melting down” and "inconsolable.”

@PhilipRucker Perhaps he should step down, go back to Indiana and plan a funeral for the stillbirth of his political career.
posted by sallybrown at 10:22 AM on October 8, 2016 [79 favorites]

Starting tomorrow, he'll be the proto-fascist racist misogynist plutocrat you could have a beer wine tasting spoons with.
posted by Talez at 10:23 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

MSNBC has on a Jaleisa McQueen who is saying she still "absolutely supports Donald Trump" and is attacking Hillary Clinton over her emails.

WHO ARE THESE WOMEN AND WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:23 AM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

If a party nominates a horrible candidate, they should lose the election. End of story.
posted by kiltedtaco at 10:23 AM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]

Man, 2016 ...
Mother Teresa being made a saint, Trump at the White House door ...
Death and Conquest, that's two of the Four Horsemen, can Famine and War be far behind?
posted by Chitownfats at 10:24 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

If only there was a story or song about a snake that could help Mike Pence make sense of the situation he got himself into
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:24 AM on October 8, 2016 [56 favorites]

RNC rules counsel Jim Bopp tells RCP "it is impossible" to replace Trump on the ticket at this stage "and it would be politically suicidal"

Bopp says even if Trump withdrew, RNC would need to meet to pick replacement, taking week or two. Meanwhile ballots are finalized/being cast

Bopp says Rs calling for Trump to drop out are making a political calculation. But "to urge creation of vacancy is to urge party suicide"
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:24 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

MSNBC interviewing Trump dead-enders is... almost enough to make me feel sympathy for them. Almost.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:24 AM on October 8, 2016

Man, 2016 ...
Mother Teresa being made a saint, Trump at the White House door ...
Death and Conquest, that's two of the Four Horsemen, can Famine and War be far behind?

Plus Bowie and Prince died. Shit fucking sucks.
posted by Talez at 10:25 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

I have this fantasy that after losing the White House, the Senate, and because this is fantasy, the House, Trump, who always, always, has to come out the winner in his own mind, spends the rest of his life claiming that was his goal all along - the ruin the Republican party.
posted by COD at 10:25 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

@Schwarzenegger 11 minutes ago As proud as I am to label myself a Republican, there is one label that I hold above all else - American. My full statement:
posted by howfar at 10:25 AM on October 8, 2016 [29 favorites]

My bet for 2020, if the Republican Party survives, is Governor Nikki Haley.

I was having a conversation with friends the other day, including dyed-in-the-wool conservatives who have grown disillusioned with the crazification of the GOP, and one regretted that he couldn't vote for Haley to be the first female president. Could she get through a primary in 2020 as the brown woman who took down the dixieflag from the Columbia statehouse grounds? [shrug]

On the switcheroo: I sympathise with corb, but I'm with Sara C. here. While the RNC clearly has the power to make its own rules, the fundamental principle of the modern American presidential campaign is that it goes on for an eternity, with multiple stopping points along the way, and overriding all those decisions right at the end... just won't do.
posted by holgate at 10:25 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Anyone who doesn't want Trump to become president is free to vote and campaign against him. Calls for him to be replaced are 100% self-serving and have nothing to do with him being a deplorable candidate, only an unelectable one.

It's only "necessary" to replace him if people believe that the GOP should still be able to win an election even after supporting a racist for months and months and months and millions of votes for him.


Exactly, so let's please stop pretending that there's anything noble about being a "any republican but trump" partisan.

the enemy of my enemy may still be my enemy.
posted by winna at 10:26 AM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]

Governor Nikki Haley

Nimrata Nikki Randhawa getting through the GOP primaries?

Piyush Jindal didn't even make it through the first round.
posted by Talez at 10:29 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

The Republican Party deserves to be punished for Trump. Every. Single. Republican. Not endorsing him was never enough. The only moral and rational choice has always been to vote Clinton. Straight D all the way down the ticket.

In this swirling cesspool of an election the only choices are sink (Trump) or swim (Clinton). Those who think there is a life preserver or life jacket (Johnson or Stein) are not facing reality.
posted by blairsyprofane at 10:29 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

Obviously, at this late stage, the GOP should be required to carry its nominee to term.

Coffee, coffee all over my smartphone.
posted by RolandOfEld at 10:30 AM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]

I still like you, corb.
posted by roll truck roll at 10:30 AM on October 8, 2016 [46 favorites]

@Schwarzenegger 11 minutes ago As proud as I am to label myself a Republican, there is one label that I hold above all else - American. My full statement:

Nice tweet, but I would imagine he's already far enough from the Republican mindset to sway anyone with this statement.

I mean, his twitter image is of him standing in a sea of solar panels. How anti-GOP can you get?
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 10:31 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Enjoy the debate tomorrow night, y'all. I'm out.

@Joshua Green: Trump source on debate strategy: "She’s as much an attacker of women as Bill. We’re fully loaded. She's gonna have to confront her accusers"
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:32 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Nimrata Nikki Randhawa getting through the GOP primaries?

Piyush Jindal didn't even make it through the first round.

Naw, let's not do this.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:32 AM on October 8, 2016 [36 favorites]

@TheShrillest GOP 2014: Marriage is between ONE MAN and ONE WOMAN, that's GOD'S design. GOP 2016: King David had 500 concubines what's the big deal

I sure hope Sean Hannity has to pay for that concubine remark

And I'm pretty sure that Sean Hannity has been one of Trump's concubines for a while.
posted by jeremias at 10:32 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

Piyush Jindal didn't even make it through the first round.

Because he has zero charisma, nothing in particular to recommend him, and, like Pence, had already burned all his bridges in his home state. Not because of his name, which is Bobby Jindal, anyway.
posted by Sara C. at 10:32 AM on October 8, 2016 [22 favorites]

WHO ARE THESE WOMEN AND WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?

You know who they are-- they are women raised in the Patriarchy and brainwashed to believe that women are "different." Not inferior per se, just not on the same level with men. Sneaky. Manipulative. Catty. Weak. Prone to PMS mood swings. Ready to give everything up for the right man.

It breaks my heart how thoroughly steeped in the Patriarchal juice some of these poor souls are.

Speaking of which, what do you think is going through the mind of Kellyann Conway right now? Is she getting ready to bolt? Or is she going to try to ride out this storm? I am on tenterhooks because I can see her going either way. I think she has having an argument inside her head right now as to what would be best for her career. Fish or cut bait?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [23 favorites]

It's only "necessary" to replace him if people believe that the GOP should still be able to win an election even after supporting a racist for months and months and months and millions of votes for him.

I don't want to put words in corb's mouth, but I think her position is that dumping Trump from the ticket shouldn't be considered a Hail Mary option to win the presidency and save the downballot, because it would clearly mean Deplorable types would stay at home. It's about beginning the postmortem and the "truth and reconciliation" process within the GOP with a decisive act of repudiation before November 8th, instead of lapsing into the McConnell mode of rejectionism once the votes are counted.
posted by holgate at 10:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [48 favorites]

the duly elected and representative RNC choosing a new candidate, would be in line with the process of American democracy if they replaced him,

Meta-meta-meta democracy.
posted by RolandOfEld at 10:34 AM on October 8, 2016

Well, Bill Clinton issued a long, tearful apology, and all was forgiven, right?

Don't equivocate Trump's behavior with Bill Clinton's. Even Lewinsky never denied enthusiastically consenting and even actively pursuing Clinton. Clinton's sleaze wasn't even remotely on the same level of sexually evil behavior as sexually assaulting other people's spouses and feeling entitled to because you're "a star."
posted by saulgoodman at 10:34 AM on October 8, 2016 [49 favorites]

Yes, thank you, holgate - you said it perfectly.
posted by corb at 10:35 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

Great clip of Jerry Springer explaining exactly why this tape made a difference when Trump's previous comments didn't.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:35 AM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

So I am all but allergic to TV and am completely unfamiliar with the pundit classes. This latest craziness had me watching CNN and seeing that amazing panel last night where Ana Navarro lost her shit. Wow, do I have such deep pity for that Scottie Nell creature--what kind of nightmare-life scenario must have led her to be such a crazy misogynist lapdog. Maybe when this is all over we can set up some kind of deprogramming retreat center on womyn's land or something, for all the women who are going to self-destruct as a result of this monster.
posted by Sublimity at 10:35 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Phone banking milestone- first person I spoke to that has already voted. It's getting real!!!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:35 AM on October 8, 2016 [24 favorites]

I'm just gonna leave this here...
posted by jferg at 10:35 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Great clip of Jerry Springer explaining exactly why this tape made a difference when Trump's previous comments didn't.

Jerry Springer got olddddddddddd.
posted by Talez at 10:37 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

It's every space where men think they have impunity, public or private.

It's not, though. The belief that all men do this, that it's "normal", is causing a lot of harm. The very fact that he's talking about it like this is him trying to send a kind of "I'm in the club" signal. He wasn't lucky enough to have a role model to set him straight.

Even now, he probably doesn't believe that any other men are genuinely outraged; he probably thinks it's all fake, all acting, to impress someone or to get women's attention.

The fact that it's possible to feel sympathy for this, to understand it, doesn't at all reduce the harmfulness of it.

To me, it indicates a great need to communicate about reality, about the fact that most people do try to be sincere and do try to be kind to each other, to people who really don't have a sense of proportion about these things.
posted by amtho at 10:37 AM on October 8, 2016 [28 favorites]

Who says you would have to replace Trump with someone after he's dumped? Can't the GOP just forfeit?

I feel that's the least wrong thing for them to do at this point and it would actually be an action that shows that they admit they were completely wrong about this.
posted by FJT at 10:37 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

@JohnKasich statement via @HallieJackson: "Donald Trump is a man I cannot and should not support."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:37 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

As a husband and a father is like trying to defend your racism by claiming that some of your best friends are black.
posted by humanfont at 10:38 AM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]

Remember when Hillary Clinton apologized for calling half of Trump supporters "deplorables"?

Good times.
posted by chavenet at 10:38 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Getting the word "deplorable" into the official record and everyone's heads was a net plus for HRC.
posted by argybarg at 10:40 AM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]

Not sure if this has been posted...
posted by Catblack at 10:41 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Can we PLEASE link to the actual videos and not twitter feeds? They don't work half the time and it's incredibly frustrating kthx

What's Different About This One:
1) Smoking gun video
2) News talking heads shouting "pussy!" at each other
3) GOP on the run forrealz
4) It's breaking minds of the olds who will retreat into what their parents would have done

And finally, let's hope this starts the march of the many, many victims from out of the woodwork; as dances_with_sneetches said in the last thread,

"Orange Is The New Cosby"
posted by petebest at 10:42 AM on October 8, 2016 [22 favorites]

Not sure if this has been posted...

Only like 4 times.

In other news: Kasich has made an official non-endorsement.
posted by dis_integration at 10:42 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

The belief that all men do this, that it's "normal", is causing a lot of harm...To me, it indicates a great need to communicate about reality, about the fact that most people do try to be sincere and do try to be kind to each other

Well no, actually, most women have experienced groping or assault or harassment, so this very much is the reality and we should talk about it.
posted by acidic at 10:43 AM on October 8, 2016 [30 favorites]

Not sure if this has been posted...

Only like 4 times.

Gets better each time.

(It's the Grabsdem Flag)
posted by chavenet at 10:44 AM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]

@Schwarzenegger 11 minutes ago As proud as I am to label myself a Republican, there is one label that I hold above all else - American. My full statement:


...SCHWARZENEGGER. Arnold Schwarzenegger, serial assaulter of multiple women. He is actually known to have actually done all of the things Trump spoke about, he was known to have done them when he ran for governor, he was known to have done them when he won. his reasoning in his statement is carefully nonspecific, so he remembers his fun times even if the rest of the country doesn't.

How long's it going to take for people approvingly quoting him to forget about Trump ever doing this, too? A couple years? Four, five?
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:44 AM on October 8, 2016 [40 favorites]

shauna@goldengateblond: Meanwhile, at Trump Tower . . .
posted by bibliowench at 10:45 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

It's about beginning the postmortem and the "truth and reconciliation" process within the GOP with a decisive act of repudiation before November 8th

Maybe, but the problem comes after November 8th.

If corb's solution is that Trump steps down, but his name stays on the ballot, and probably nobody votes for him because lololololol hahaha just nope all around, great! Yeah! (Although, isn't that what's going to happen anyway no matter whether Trump stays or goes?)

If corb's solution is that Trump steps down and is replaced by a freshly appointed Republican ticket, and electors are free to be "faithless" and translate a vote for Trump as a vote for whoever the Republican candidate is, no. No fucking way.

It's really disingenuous here to assume that the Republicans (including corb) haven't realized that they control the entire legislative branch right now, and that they've crippled the Supreme Court. Call me cynical, but I just can't believe that any Republican suggesting that we leave it to faithless electors and the "system of checks and balances" to decide doesn't actually mean that they believe the Republicans should be allowed to destroy the democratic underpinning of this country, thwart the intentions behind the Consititution, and crown the POTUS of their choice.

That said, I feel like it's more realistic that Clinton wins with a wide enough margin that none of this actually matters. But I see you, you fucking assholes. I see you.
posted by Sara C. at 10:45 AM on October 8, 2016 [47 favorites]

Yeah, it's kind of telling that Schwarzenegger doesn't say why he's not voting Republican.
posted by AndrewInDC at 10:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

Well no, actually, most women have experienced groping or assault or harassment,

Most women having experienced those humiliations is not the same thing as most men having committed them. Not at all.
posted by saulgoodman at 10:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [30 favorites]

(meanwhile, outside the US, the UK parts of my twitter feed just exploded after news that despite protests, Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn spoke at a Socialist Workers Party-hosted event earlier today. To people outside the hard left, that party is probably best known for their "we don't believe in bourgeois justice, repeated accusations of rape should be handled by the rapist's friends in the central committee" stance (Google "comrade delta" for more on those deplorables)).
posted by effbot at 10:47 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Everybody does it is exactly what abusers say and want their victims to believe.
posted by saulgoodman at 10:47 AM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]

Angus Johnston: I'd like to hear just one Republican say he's disavowing Trump to set an example for his son.
posted by mochapickle at 10:47 AM on October 8, 2016 [59 favorites]

It's about beginning the postmortem and the "truth and reconciliation" process within the GOP with a decisive act of repudiation before November 8th

On Nov 8 the entire country will have an opportunity for repudiation and I think we deserve that opportunity. Creating an ridiculous constitutional crisis to override the votes cast in the primaries in order to send a mixed-up message (why would voting for Pense be sending a message of repudiation against someone he signed up to run with?) makes no sense compared to the obvious simple solution, which is defeating Trump in the election. Voting for Hillary repudiates Trump, done.

In future elections R's will be able to sort out their own "truth and reconciliation" by nominating someone who is not horrible and who receives a plurality of primary votes.
posted by kiltedtaco at 10:48 AM on October 8, 2016 [22 favorites]

I don't really think Not All Men, Yes All Women is a useful derail right now.
posted by instamatic at 10:48 AM on October 8, 2016 [28 favorites]

Maybe when this is all over we can set up some kind of deprogramming retreat center on womyn's land or something
posted by Sublimity at 1:35 PM on October 8

I have had the same thought but not just for women, for the Trumpkins and Tea Party people and the other Republicans who have been actively hurt by Republican policies.

Let's take taxes. Sure, Grover Norguist wants a Federal Government so small it can be drwoned in a bath tub but for the middle class and the lower class we really need an intervention to teach people that taxes are beneficial. I'm picturing rehab classes where people sit in a circle and have to imagine life without an EPA or a CDC or roads or Medicare or Social Security or Border Control or Coast Guard, etc. We need propaganda, I guess. More ads about what your taxes are doing. When people find out that Billionaires are not paying any taxes we don't want them saying "Good for them," we want them saying "What the hell! That's outrageous."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:48 AM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]

As expected Hitler isn't taking the news well.
posted by humanfont at 10:51 AM on October 8, 2016 [17 favorites]

To me, it indicates a great need to communicate about reality, about the fact that most people do try to be sincere and do try to be kind to each other, to people who really don't have a sense of proportion about these things.
posted by amtho at 10:37 AM on October 8 [+] [!]

A whole bunch of women are saying this happens all the time. It doesn't have to be all men to implicate enough men--not just the worst of them, but the ones who play along, the ones who defend their friends because they were just joking, the ones who stay silent.

And it doesn't absolve women who do the same either, though those women are obviously in a different position. I've definitely laughed things off because I thought I had to for my job, or because I didn't know how to respond and it was definitely safer to avoid confrontation, or any number of things that really just don't apply to men in the same way.

I don't know if my exposure to men has been uniquely bad, or uniquely honest, or some combination. When I was younger I was femme-y and hot, and I got treated like a young, attractive, vulnerable woman. Then I worked in male dominated industries, and got that flavor of bullshit. And then I was out as a lesbian, and I got a new flavor, which was "let's bond by talking about women." And now, in my mid-thirties, I no longer have close male friends because all of them, at some time or another, got their misogyny on without realizing it, and without realizing they were expecting me to play along.

I really hope that's not representative. But that's been my experience. And like the POC in these threads who can't approach white people without a guarded, self-protective suspicion any longer, that's...pretty much how I feel about men, at this point.

Idk totally know where I'm going with this, except to say that it's not really enough to not be one of the bad ones. I just don't have the energy to not be believed anymore. I have too much I want to do in my life to spend any more energy trying to explain things to men with the hope that maybe this time it won't suck.

Of course not all men. But it doesn't really matter if it's still enough men. And that leaves me in this terrible place of keeping all men at a certain distance (which sucks, because there are a lot of dudes I really, really like, and historically I've clicked with men more easily than I have with women, and even if I didn't it would still just suck), and I don't know if there's anything to be done about it, at this point.

It fucking sucks.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:51 AM on October 8, 2016 [51 favorites]

I'm torn here. On the one hand, as a man, I feel that it's very important not to distance myself from sexual violence, because it is the problem of all men.

On the other hand, staying silent when other men say "all men say that behind closed doors," but I never have and never would put up with it – I don't feel right about that. I feel like I'm silently vouching for their bullshit if I don't speak up.

I'm 46 years old. I have never heard men speak like that when women are not around. I will grant you that I self-select; I don't want to be around men who I think would speak like that. But that's the point. There is a version of manhood that is not total garbage, and I take great care for my son to know that, for everyone to know that. My overwhelming impulse is to say "you are on your own here. You do not speak for me."
posted by argybarg at 10:52 AM on October 8, 2016 [86 favorites]

Most women having experienced those humiliations is not the same thing as most men having committed them. Not at all.

Are we seriously doing #NotAllMen today? Really?
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:52 AM on October 8, 2016 [26 favorites]

"grope, verb \ˈgrōp\

Popularity: Top 20% of words

Simple Definition of grope

: to touch (someone) in an unwanted and unexpected sexual way"

So the "softening" of "Grab them by the pussy" into "Grope" carries with it the denotation that it's unwanted and unexpected. News outlets?! Stay sharp here.
posted by petebest at 10:52 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Most women having experienced those humiliations is not the same thing as most men having committed them. Not at all.

That's true. But as a man who has not done these things, this conversation is now happening on the biggest stage of all and it's a powerful moment. It's happening internationally too. If a wider discussion of these issues are the first stages of the presidency of the first female president of the most powerful country in the world that is going to resonate.

Meanwhile, Donald needs to be hounded with these questions:

1) Do you still grab pussy?

2) When did you stop grabbing pussy?

3) What is the moment that made you change your mind about grabbing pussy?
posted by vbfg at 10:52 AM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]

Sadly, not even this.
posted by infini at 10:53 AM on October 8, 2016

I'm 46 years old. I have never heard men speak like that when women are not around.

That's a very unusual experience. My partner, who is 67, says it happens "all the time."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:54 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Republicans still supporting Trump after this should have their feet held to the fire, repeatedly.

Forget "still;" support of Trump was always unforfivable. Republicans engaged in a decades-long project to make "liberal" a dirty word. Republicans tar Hillary Clinton with myths that go back to the 90s; as mentioned in the other thread, Republicans are also still obsessed over Saul Alinsky.

Republicans were the Party of Trump long before his nomination. To this day, Paul Ryan is still selling a supply-side budget full of magic asterisks and Mitch McConnell is refusing to even grant a SCOTUS nominee a hearing, let alone a vote.

The American people need and deserve to be reminded, repeatedly, how radical and reactionary the Republicans have become. They are conserving nothing except the privileges of the wealthy. Trump represents them perfectly; their only problem has ever been that he says the quiet parts loud.
posted by Gelatin at 10:54 AM on October 8, 2016 [26 favorites]

When did you stop grabbing pussy?

Who'd have thunk that the 2016 election would be the moment we figured out how to unload "When did you stop beating your wife?" as a question?
posted by Sara C. at 10:56 AM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

Speaking of which, what do you think is going through the mind of Kellyann Conway right now?

"Good thing I'm being paid up front in cash..."
posted by mikelieman at 10:57 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

NYTimes Lewd Donald Trump Tape Is a Breaking Point for Many in the G.O.P.

Mr. Trump, in a brief telephone interview on Saturday, shrugged off the calls to leave the presidential race, saying he would “never drop out of this race in a million years.”

“I haven’t heard from anyone saying I should drop out, and that would never happen, never happen,” Mr. Trump said. “That’s not the kind of person I am. I am in this until the end.”

Far from sounding shaken, Mr. Trump insisted that he believed he could still win the presidency in November.

“Oh yeah, we can win — we will win,” he said. “We have tremendous support. I think a lot of people underestimate how loyal my supporters are.”

Mr. Trump said he was going ahead with preparations for Sunday night’s debate and that he had not decided whether to make a public appearance later Saturday or on Sunday morning to address his remarks about women. He added that he did not feel rattled by the fierce criticism over his comments.

“I’m doing fine — focusing on the debate, getting ready, focusing on talking to voters,” Mr. Trump said. “I’ll be fine.”

He hasn't heard from anyone saying he should drop out?! Well maybe he needs to take his fingers out of his ears and stop screaming LA LA La. I can almost believe he is doing "fine" because he is a belligerent little asshole but I don't believe he is preparing for the debate other than to try and come up with a strategy for answering "Mr. Trump why should we elect such a creep as yourself?"
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:57 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Take the Not All Men somewhere else, please. Just for one freaking day. We live in a culture completely saturated with the objectification of women. Have you paid money or your attention to a corporation that uses a woman's body or sexual objectification to sell you a product? Think about it that way if you have to. Just take the #notallmen somewhere else today.
posted by sallybrown at 10:58 AM on October 8, 2016 [98 favorites]

Sara C. -- I think in practice, you'd have Trump on some state ballots, Pence (or Republican To Be Named Later) on others, and court cases rumbling for the next month.

Some GOP types like Patrick Ruffini are floating scenarios with ballot changes and faithless electors that could push HRC below 270 and send the result to the House, but I don't see where those EVs come from.

Basic stuff like field operations -- already outsourced to state parties, and stretched thin -- will implode if Trump gets bumped. He still controls millions in the campaign bank account, and even if the Adelsons and Kochs open their wallets, it's too late to make a difference.
posted by holgate at 10:58 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Mod note: I don't think this is a great time for, but more to the point am certain that this is very much not a good start to, a general argument about the distribution of shitty sexual behavior by men. Please let's step away from that in here for now.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:58 AM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]

He hasn't heard from anyone saying he should drop out?!

It does seem like he only got his phone back this morning. He's probably not caught up.
posted by AndrewInDC at 10:59 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Speaking of which, what do you think is going through the mind of Kellyann Conway right now?

"There are only 30 days left".

Actually I expect she'll quit soon.
posted by dis_integration at 10:59 AM on October 8, 2016

I'm 46 years old. I have never heard men speak like that when women are not around.

That's a very unusual experience. My partner, who is 67, says it happens "all the time."

20 years is a long time in attitudes, I guess. I'm 49 years old, and the other guys in the locker room aren't misogynistic assholes. Maybe teh olds act different.
posted by mikelieman at 10:59 AM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]

[Started on this before Cortex's comment above, but I think the main part of this comment isn't about how common problematic behavior is, but rather about why it should be addressed even if it's not common.]

Well no, actually, most women have experienced groping or assault or harassment, so this very much is the reality and we should talk about it.

Let's say a woman grows up going to public schools, riding public transpotation, working in public-facing jobs, participating in a sport or an artistic endeavor -- how many men would she encounter in potentially private or semi-private or too-crowded-to-see circumstances? If she were assaulted three times -- most aren't, I think half or slightly more than half of women are assaulted once -- that's still a _minority_ of men doing this.

Plus, the men who commit these things aren't just doing it one time. One bad apple can seriously harm many, many women.

There are two huge reasons to continue to work very hard on this issue, though:

1) The harm caused by a single assault is much greater than a lot of people realize, and

2) We naturally overestimate the prominence of harmful or threatening behavior, so that it seems more "normal" than it actually is. Hearing about just a few incidents like this can make it _seem_ like it's normal, which can have a terrible influence on the behavior of men and the fear -- which is a harm in itself -- of women. We have to constantly counter this kind of thing with narratives which say "No, this is not normal. No, this is not OK. Most powerful people know that this is not OK and they don't do it, and if it does happen they recognize that it is wrong."

This is part of the reason that women having power is so important. They are more likely to recognize the great harm that is done, and are more likely to understand why it's important to prioritize the kind of communication in point #2.
posted by amtho at 11:01 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

If Pence does drop out, his replacement simply must be Michele Bachmann. It is what this election deserves.
posted by delfin at 11:01 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

That Downfall one is good. Maybe best ever (and we know there have been a lot).
posted by petebest at 11:01 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

Actually I expect she'll quit soon.

She hasn't tweeted a damn thing in 24 hours. She can reclaim what little of her self-respect she has remaining by bowing out now.
posted by Talez at 11:02 AM on October 8, 2016

Most women having experienced those humiliations is not the same thing as most men having committed them.

Here's the thing: most women have experienced sexual harrassment and humiliation because sexual harassers/rapists are serial offenders. See: Trump, Cosby, Savile, Hastert, Daniel Holzclaw, on and on. Whenever a case like this comes to light, numerous victims come forward. Numerous. Women are warned against the office or casting couch harasser because he's not going to single out one or two women for harassment or rape and leave everyone else alone. He's like that with everyone. It's a worldview of women as commodities that creates sexual harassment, rape, and child abuse.

Men who harass and rape don't have just one victim - much as child molesters don't have just one victim. You see that again and again - one victim comes forward, then it's a domino effect as others step up, and then you realize that this one man might have over a hundred victims!

Just like a minority of criminals are the ones committing a vast majority of the crimes, so it is with rapists and harassers. That's because it has nothing to do with the victims "asking for it" or "tempting" fate or any of that crap. It's a mindset that sees women as commodities, not actual people with actual autonomy that needs to be respected.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 11:03 AM on October 8, 2016 [44 favorites]

That Downfall one is good. Maybe best ever

Done by right-wing radio talker John Ziegler, of all people.
posted by holgate at 11:04 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Thanks, Rosie M. Banks. I think that's really important point, and probably affects the candidate's perceptions of reality too. Who knows what his role models did.
posted by amtho at 11:04 AM on October 8, 2016

My kid's school actually had a mass shooting threat from the creepy clown contingent, so I've been thinking about them a lot recently. And I've been waiting and waiting for an alt-right connection to surface. Surely I can't be the only person waiting to see if some of these clowns have pointy hoods, can I?

Wait, what, clowns? Actual creepy clowns, or metaphorical ones? As a Stephen King fan, I feel like I've failed to click on some important links.
posted by invincible summer at 11:04 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

@Schwarzenegger 11 minutes ago As proud as I am to label myself a Republican, there is one label that I hold above all else - American. My full statement:

Nice tweet, but I would imagine he's already far enough from the Republican mindset to sway anyone with this statement.

Also: it's the height of hypocrisy. There is strong evidence that the Gubernator assaulted women on set himself, and of course there's the whole thing where he slept with his child's nanny and had a child with her while married to Maria Shriver.

Of all the major Republican figures to disavow Trump, I rank Arnold pretty low.
posted by suelac at 11:05 AM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]

Well, I'm not a man's man. I don't like guys who are man's man types. I admit it. I've lived in liberal enclaves, and I've worked in soft professions like journalism and elementary education.

So maybe I represent a minority experience. And if people want to say that that makes me irrelevant, so be it. But it does make me relevant to the argument that there is some sort of biological imperative to rape culture, that we might as well give up on the idea of men who can behave respectfully throughout their lives.

I'm not just talking about myself; I took a 3-hour road trip with a friend recently. He spent some time talking about his wife, and especially about how much she admires her. I admire my wife. If one of us had suddenly started talking about we need to grab some other woman in the pussy, there would've been a horrible silence and a feeling of disgust in the car.

I do not feel that men with basic humanity are always and everywhere a silent minority. We need each other.

This happens. Men do get to a place where they don't think of women as pure sexual meat. I want to share with my son that that feels good; that it makes for a better life to feel this way. I also want him to be prepared to meet the other kind of man, so he can let them know that he wants no part of their bullshit.

But if he hears in news reports that all men behave this way, and I stay silent, what does that say to him?
posted by argybarg at 11:06 AM on October 8, 2016 [53 favorites]

This notallmen stuff sounds awfully defensive. The problem isn't just 5% of serial aggressive offenders. The problem is the entire goddamn bell curve.

If you don't see this, but the women in your life do, you are not looking, because you don't have to. And maybe you should do some work to figure out what it is you're not seeing before you jump into a convo like this to notallmen all over the place.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:06 AM on October 8, 2016 [34 favorites]

Sorry, just saw the request from the mods. Feel free to delete this comment and my last one.
posted by argybarg at 11:06 AM on October 8, 2016

@chrislhayes: It is so revealing all these Republicans saying "I have a wife & daughter & mother" You don't know any Muslims? Any Mexican immigrants?"

Maybe they don't. But I did some research and found out an amazing fact:
Mexicans and Muslims have mothers too! And a very high percentage have daughters!
posted by msalt at 11:07 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

If she were assaulted three times -- most aren't

This is not just assault. This is my male boss staring at my chest when I spoke to him. This is my saying, "Oh, that girl Jill seems nice" and my male friend replying "Yeah, she would be so much cuter if she lost 15 pounds." This is my dad trying to pay me to lose weight. This is being flashed 4 times in the subway in the 4 summer months I lived in New York.

You are lying to yourself if you think this is not something that saturates daily interactions between men and women in this culture, or that it's something you've never witnessed.

As a white person I am honest enough to admit there have been so many times when I've sat by silently while that "off" person in my social circle or family or school has made a racist comment that the rest of us uncomfortably let slide by. I find it extraordinarily hard to believe that is not true with nearly every man reading this and sexism.
posted by sallybrown at 11:07 AM on October 8, 2016 [84 favorites]

Obviously, at this late stage, the GOP should be required to carry its nominee to term.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:07 AM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

Okay, but it's not cool to normalize Trump's horrific attitudes. It's also not cool to contribute to and reinforce the paranoia and hyper-vigilence PTSD sufferers have to live with on a daily basis to score cheap social and political points. Especially not when one of our major party candidates is a walking trigger himself.

Some of my Dem activist friends are worrying the GOP might pull a rope-a-dope play now forcing Trump to step down and running Pence as the lead instead. I don't think Trump's ego would let him step down though.
posted by saulgoodman at 11:09 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

"These comments are disturbing and inappropriate, there is simply no excuse for them." -- Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, who only recently endorsed Trump.

Sheesh, Ted, what are you waiting for, an engraved invitation? Bounce already! You're the smart one, right?
posted by petebest at 11:09 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

It's also not cool to contribute to and reinforce the paranoia and hyper-vigilence PTSD sufferers have to live with in a daily basis to score cheap social and political points.

It is not paranoia. Women in this thread are telling you what it's like to live and confront this on a daily basis.
posted by sallybrown at 11:10 AM on October 8, 2016 [64 favorites]

The point is that the candidate probably justifies his behavior to himself by believing that anyone would do the same if he had enough power and was not a "loser". The candidate is not correct.

This lack of understanding is indicative of a larger issue with how he, and others, understand the world. It's why education that addresses the different needs and perspectives of people from different parts of society is so important.

He has no idea that his personal insights are based on flawed data, and doesn't understand the utility of seeking out other data.
posted by amtho at 11:10 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

If she were assaulted three times -- most aren't, I think half or slightly more than half of women are assaulted once --

Think again. I am trying to say this nicely so it won't get deleted. I have been assaulted twice and whenever I'm asked about a history of sexual violence I say Never because I've never been raped, never been injured, and never feared for my life. I make an ideological point of calling those attacks "attacks" now, five and twenty years later, KNOWING that some people will get mad and decide I'm a liar or a joker once they hear the full stories and details. Compared to every woman I've ever known to talk to, nothing HAS happened. I am very nearly as lucky as they come.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:10 AM on October 8, 2016 [38 favorites]

Seriously, that you can talk about hypervigilance as something you get to try to overcome instead of as something that is still actually critical to your safety means that maybe you should take a seat.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:11 AM on October 8, 2016 [42 favorites]

It's cold comfort, but I'm the tiniest bit pleased that when this traveling horror show is finally over we'll have a scandal called Pussygate that will be attached to Republicans until the end of time.
posted by scantee at 11:13 AM on October 8, 2016 [26 favorites]

If corb's solution is that Trump steps down and is replaced by a freshly appointed Republican ticket, and electors are free to be "faithless" and translate a vote for Trump as a vote for whoever the Republican candidate is, no. No fucking way.

Yeah, I just don't think that way. Trump has done so much damage as a candidate. My desire for the US to be done with this national disaster goes so far deeper than my desire to have a democrat as the next president.

If it's impossible to replace him, then so be it. If there's any feasible legal ninjitsu to get him off of the ballot, then do it.
posted by roll truck roll at 11:13 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

MNSBC reporting that crowd at Paul Ryan's event is upset with Ryan and GOP for distancing itself from Trump

It starts.
posted by Talez at 11:13 AM on October 8, 2016 [29 favorites]

As found on my morning walk, these folks got the Halloween costume market cornered.
posted by mrzarquon at 11:14 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

See Schroedinger's rapist.

I feel it every day. It's not paranoia.
posted by Sophie1 at 11:14 AM on October 8, 2016 [20 favorites]

Yesterday, I was reading posts by women about creepy bosses staring at their chests and I realized: my mom is a very attractive woman with large breasts working in absolutely male-dominated fields, and I've heard her stories about professional misogyny (the best being the "if you were an engineer, you'd appreciate..." story), but I'd never heard her talk about the creepy shit. The assaults.

So I called her up. Hey Mom, love you, yeah, wtf Trump, hey so did this ever...?

Holy shit.

I'm glad I asked. Because now I know. My surprisometer, of course:

|o............................|

It hurt me to hear her say that she got inured to it. After a while, it stops being noteworthy.
posted by TheNewWazoo at 11:15 AM on October 8, 2016 [33 favorites]

It's hard to believe the notallmen when there are multiple dudes in the thread making high-larious jokes about what this scandal should be called once everything is done.
posted by winna at 11:16 AM on October 8, 2016 [24 favorites]

There’s no longer any way for Republicans to boot Donald Trump from the ballot (WaPo)

More than 34,000 Republican voters have already cast their ballots for the 2016 general election according to the U.S. Election Project, 8,000 of them in the battleground state of North Carolina and another 5,000 in Florida. Not all of those ballots were cast for Donald Trump, it's safe to assume, but it's more than likely that most of them were.

And that, in a nutshell, is why it's far too late for the Republican Party to dump Donald Trump from their ticket.
posted by petebest at 11:16 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Where have we seen this before? Oh, yeah.
posted by drlith at 11:17 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

If the Washington Post (a source I trust) says Trump can't be replaced at this late hour, then it looks like the Republican party is just going to have to face the music.

I can't believe nobody did any vetting/background checking of Trump before he was nominated. Either that or nobody thought that rape, or cheating on taxes, or losing $900 million dollars in bad investments really mattered! Either way, that shows a colossal carelessness or stupidity.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 11:17 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

To borrow something pointed out by John Rogers, do guys objectify women when women aren't around, rating them and saying they'd like to do them? Frequently. And that is locker room talk. (I'm not condoning it) Do guys boast about sexual assault of women who don't want it? In my experience? Never.

And one terrifying thing is that Donald Trump and a non-trivial number of his defenders can't even tell the difference between objectifying someone and boasting about sexual assault.
posted by Francis at 11:17 AM on October 8, 2016 [28 favorites]

Katie Tur is actually anchoring on MSNBC right now for the first time, and so far it's nicely schadenfreudlich.
posted by spitbull at 11:18 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

See Schrodinger's rapist.

It's not even a Schrodinger's rapist because past performance is not indicative of future results. Women can't prove conclusively a man won't rape so all you can do is roll the dice each time.
posted by Talez at 11:18 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Some of my Dem activist friends are worrying the GOP might pull a rope-a-dope play now forcing Trump to step down and running Pence as the lead instead. I don't think Trump's ego would let him step down though.

And even if they could manage this ticket flip idea, what makes anyone think that Pence-Trump would have a better chance that Trump-Pence? It would stink of incompetence to swing voters while alienating the millions of people who want Donald Trump, specifically, to be president. The idea that anyone should be worrying about this seems plain silly to me.
posted by howfar at 11:18 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Apparently Pence-Carson is being floated as the back-up ticket [real]
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:19 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Katie Tur is actually anchoring on MSNBC right now for the first time, and so far it's nicely schadenfreudlich.

She fucking earned it.
posted by Talez at 11:20 AM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]

Have we linked to this tweet from Kelly Oxford yet? With its million replies?
posted by notquitemaryann at 11:20 AM on October 8, 2016 [17 favorites]

This will just embolden his supporters. They are willing to vote a sexual predator into office if it means defeating Hillary Clinton.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 11:20 AM on October 8, 2016

To borrow something pointed out by John Rogers, do guys objectify women when women aren't around, rating them and saying they'd like to do them? Frequently. And that is locker room talk. (I'm not condoning it) Do guys boast about sexual assault of women who don't want it? In my experience? Never.

Do people truly not understand that these are BOTH rape culture, they are BOTH sick?
posted by sallybrown at 11:20 AM on October 8, 2016 [40 favorites]

Katie Tur is actually anchoring on MSNBC right now for the first time, and so far it's nicely schadenfreudlich.
posted by spitbull at 11:18 AM on October 8 [1 favorite −] Favorite added! [!]

Hallie Jackson looked pissed though. I was wondering which of that traveling class would get an anchor spot. I'm so glad it's Tur.

Now we just need Joy Ann to seize MTP and throw Chuck Todd in a tower somewhere and we'll be getting close.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:20 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Have we linked to this tweet from Kelly Oxford yet? With its million replies?

Yes but it's worth linking again.
posted by Talez at 11:20 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Mod note: Couple more comments removed. saul, seriously, take a break from this thread.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:21 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

Speaking of which, what do you think is going through the mind of Kellyann Conway right now?

How much her book deal is going to be worth. The amount that I, for one, am willing to pay for a copy goes up every day.

She couldn't pay me to take a copy off her hands. She is a terrible person, and goes on tv gaslighting all of us, normalizing trump's horrible behavior and deeds, and is a big reason Trump's stature is where it was right before this, with him not far enough behind in the polls. She's a terrible person, who is supporting, aiding and holding up a terrible person. And she's accepting money to do that to the American people. I'd read a book from Nancy, or Jill, or the Khans, or from immigrants who are being harassed and threatened by Trump voters at family events. I'd read a book from Katy Tur, who covers the Trump campaign and has to listen to young children screaming 'trump that bitch' at rallies, and seeing horrific things on t-shirts. I would read a book from Malcolm Nance on how the Russians tried, and hopefully failed, to get Trump elected by hacking things. I'd read a book from whoever leaked part of Trump's taxes - how they got them, how they mailed them, how it all happened. The last person I want to give a single cent to, is Kellyanne freaking Conway, gaslighter extraordinaire.
posted by cashman at 11:21 AM on October 8, 2016 [50 favorites]

It would be a lot easier to replace him if he stepped down - but I join everyone else to say that Donald Trump is fundamentally incapable of admitting he's a loser.
posted by corb at 11:21 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

My Thanksgiving dinner is later today. I don't have to be concerned about any arguments, no Trump like supporters in the room but I don't see how it's not going to be a main topic of conversation. I'm not sure how I feel about that.
posted by Jalliah at 11:22 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

@SopanDeb:

"PEAK TRUMP: "Go behind closed doors of the...politicians & pundits & see what they’re saying. I look like a baby.”

on.wsj.com/2dVjUwO"

So not just Bill is worse, everybody is worse than him.
posted by chris24 at 11:22 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Not just that they're both rape culture but that they exist on a continuum, and a lot closer together than people seem to want to believe.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:22 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

Apparently Pence-Carson is being floated as the back-up ticket [real]

Is that why Pence isn't going to Wisconsin? Is there any possibility he's staying home to cram for a debate appearance?
posted by mochapickle at 11:22 AM on October 8, 2016

I think it's okay to vandalize swastikas and the like.

And that's why windmills are such a popular subject for graffiti artists.
posted by jackbishop at 11:23 AM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]

jackbishop: Huh! I've definitely seen those before, but never realized what they were covering.
posted by roll truck roll at 11:24 AM on October 8, 2016

Just in case the newer mefites haven't read the Schroedinger's rapist thread.
posted by Sophie1 at 11:25 AM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

More calls for Trump to step aside:

Alaska Sen. Dan Sullivan
Rep. Rodney Davis of IL

Meanwhile, Dr. Ben Carson tells @FoxNews more Trump revelations are coming.

(all twitter links)
posted by sallybrown at 11:25 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Is there any possibility he's staying home to cram for a debate appearance?

Bwah God, that's Mike Pence's music!
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:26 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

This is not just assault...You are lying to yourself if you think this is not something that saturates daily interactions between men and women

Not denying that at all. I'm in a male-dominated field and I know this first hand. Many of the men I've met haven't been perfect gentlemen. In one notable instance, though, the insulting dude -- an exciting hire for the company, since he was really smart and had very relevant experience -- was fired immediately by the owner of the company.

The media in question, though, is about a kind of assault -- kissing unwilling, powerless victims who can't say no -- and, if that kind of thing -- actual assault -- is being perpetrated on most of the women in our society by more than half of the powerful men you meet, that would certainly defeat my original point.

The main point, though, is that it is not normal, and that one can be a powerful, even famous man without doing this kind of thing. Allowing a narrative to prevail that says "all the winners behave this way" is not healthy, not for young men, not for boys, and not for girls who are learning what they should expect to tolerate.
posted by amtho at 11:27 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

"Meanwhile, Dr. Ben Carson tells @FoxNews more Trump revelations are coming."

Wait, so the Republicans are leaking stuff on him as well as the Democrats? I never realized how bipartisan October surprises could be.
posted by I-baLL at 11:27 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

My kid's school actually had a mass shooting threat from the creepy clown contingent, so I've been thinking about them a lot recently. And I've been waiting and waiting for an alt-right connection to surface. Surely I can't be the only person waiting to see if some of these clowns have pointy hoods, can I?
______\\
Wait, what, clowns? Actual creepy clowns, or metaphorical ones? As a Stephen King fan, I feel like I've failed to click on some important links.
posted by invincible summer at 2:04 PM on 10/8

Yes, literal clowns, though it was deemed a not-credible threat. A follow-on to the creepy clown mass hysteria that seems just so freaking not-coincidental with the election cycle, if you ask me. WaPo article on the scares
posted by instamatic at 11:28 AM on October 8, 2016

Wait, so the Republicans are leaking stuff on him as well as the Democrats? I never realized how bipartisan October surprises could be.

If there's something in it for them, sure. It's the moment when the pu**y grab turns into a land grab.
posted by mochapickle at 11:29 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Washington Post reporter @PhilipRucker:

"Carl Paladino, close Trump ally, said campaign is “fine” & “rocking,” and “gutter talk” is smthg "all men do, at least all normal men do.""

posted by cashman at 11:30 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Holy shit, the Pawlenty statement:

"Although I'd hoped he could have risen to the occasion, it's clear Trump is unwilling or unable to demonstrate even the most basic level of discipline, character and judgment necessary to lead our great nation. He is unsound, uninformed, unhinged, and unfit to be President of the United States, and I am withdrawing my support for him."
posted by corb at 11:30 AM on October 8, 2016 [31 favorites]

@EvilGalProds: "Men, don't just congratulate yourself on not being Donald Trump. Be sure you're not Billy Bush."
posted by chris24 at 11:30 AM on October 8, 2016 [173 favorites]

If you are having trouble grokking how "rating" women in the locker room connects to "I'll grab that pussy whenever I want" consider that both involve a feeling of entitlement similar to that of ownership: that you are entitled to think and comment on a woman's body regardless of what she does; that you are entitled to access a woman's body regardless of what she does.

Of all the times you've made comments about a woman's body - did the woman in question ask you "What is your opinion of how sexually attractive my body is?" I bet not.

Consider Trump's involvement in beauty pageants.
posted by sallybrown at 11:30 AM on October 8, 2016 [33 favorites]

RNC Halts all "Victory Project" work for Trump

This is amazing. A brand new Saturday Massacre.
posted by dis_integration at 11:30 AM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]

My Thanksgiving dinner is later today. I don't have to be concerned about any arguments, no Trump like supporters in the room but I don't see how it's not going to be a main topic of conversation. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Mine is tomorrow night. In-laws, who are pretty left, and my parents, who are pretty right - not Trump supporters, but no love for Hillary. There was a suggestion floated to have the debate on. I'm trying to suggest that we not. I see no need to have Canadian Thanksgiving ruined by the Orange Shitshow south of the 49th.
posted by nubs at 11:31 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Wait so now we're going from "Trump tells it like it is", "this is just typical locker room talk", etc. to "AT LEAST TRUMP ISN'T A WUSS LIKE ALL YOU BETAS WHO DON'T RAPE WOMEN ON THE REGULAR."
posted by Sara C. at 11:31 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

Jalliah: He's going to crow about his 'support' because that's all he can see.

In fairness, a well fitting pair of orthotics does make a lot of difference.

Oh, and some of you may get a kick out of this Dutch newspaper cartoon.
posted by Too-Ticky at 11:31 AM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]

forcing Trump to step down and running Pence as the lead instead.

If Republicans do this, they'll lose even bigger they are already going to. The truly deplorable Trump supporters won't vote for Pence - they'll write in Trump, or Pepe, or stay home and whine.

Meanwhile, the public knows nothing about Pence, and I guarantee you that Hillary's campaign and independent PACs have TV ads in the can full of choice oppo - anti-women comments, stuff from the Kaine debate, his insane "funerals for fetuses" bill, Russia, economic attacks, Planned Parenthood, climate change, Indiana Republicans despising him, etc. etc.

They are more than ready to fill the vacuum of knowledge about Pence with truly scary and cringeworthy facts - which have the additional advantage of being true.
posted by msalt at 11:31 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

"They are more than ready to fill the vacuum of knowledge about Pence with truly scary and cringeworthy facts - which have the additional advantage of being true."

Eh, maybe. Will they have time to propagate it though?
posted by I-baLL at 11:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

If you are having trouble grokking how "rating" women in the locker room connects to "I'll grab that pussy whenever I want" consider that both involve a feeling of entitlement similar to that of ownership: that you are entitled to think and comment on a woman's body regardless of what she does; that you are entitled to access a woman's body regardless of what she does.

On the other hand if you are having trouble understanding how damaging this is to Trump, remember that people who deny the very existence of rape culture and would have no problem at all with rating women in the locker room will be utterly appalled by what he has said.
posted by Francis at 11:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Katy Tur is on the anchor's desk. Anyone else think she was threatened so severely that she had to be taken out of the field for her own safety?
posted by Sophie1 at 11:34 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

I have never been seriously assaulted and do not have PTSD. And yet, if something did happen to me, I have a very, very short list of men that I would trust not to dismiss it, minimize it, or blame me for it. Like maybe two?

I don't expect that most men are like Trump in the locker room. I think that Trump is a more extreme, and more overt, form of a subtle misogyny that runs through our culture. One form this misogyny takes is to treat women's concerns as overblown.

Let me give you an example. I have a friend who is not a Republican, although he's more conservative than me. He's always treated me with the same respect he gives men. I don't feel remotely threatened or demeaned by him. Yet, one day, we were at a party, and he was showing someone--another male friend--something on his phone that they were laughing about.

I looked, and what was it? Someone had taken the video of Hillary Clinton's surprise at the balloon drop and photoshopped dicks cramming into her mouth. They thought this was very funny. They didn't understand why it was not.

I lost respect for him, and trust in him, in an instant. I still genuinely like him, but my list went from three to two. And you're probably thinking, hey, he would probably still stand up for you if something happened. Enjoying a sexist joke doesn't mean he wouldn't stand up for you. But note what I said up there about minimizing? I do not trust men who minimize.

One of the two men I trust vocally objected to that gif, but was basically ignored. And this was a group of men you would expect to be progressive: mostly left, young academics in liberal arts or social sciences.

So yeah, I tend to assume that most men are sexist these days. It's not something I like but I have been burned too many times. I think it takes hard, introspective work for men to overcome sexism. They might not necessarily be frothing, Trump-like monsters without that work, they might be genuinely nice and well-intentioned people, but they won't have rooted out what our culture has taught them. And I don't think most men have done that work.

If that makes you feel bad, imagine how I feel.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 11:36 AM on October 8, 2016 [136 favorites]

Look up the historical popular vote margins between the winner and runner-up in presidential elections.

Yes. This whole "we can't get complacent" thing comes from a good place, I accept -- we still need to show up, I get it -- but I'll stick with my six months ago take, which is, basically, there is no possible way Clinton can't win this in a landslide. Even if she made horrendous missteps... well, it's Trump, for crying out loud. She's been President-elect since his nomination.

It's a shame there will be asterisks on the inevitable huge victory, because, you know, not a real opponent and all that, but I really believe the reporting has been way more interested in inventing a horserace where there's nothing, because blowouts are boring.

I know it's not a popular position, but I think a lot of stress and worry of the last few months has been unnecessary and self-imposed, and we should relax a little, already. Trump is and always was impossible.
posted by rokusan at 11:36 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Katy Tur is on the anchors desk. Anyone else think she was threatened so severely that she had to be taken out of the field for her own safety?
posted by Sophie1 at 11:34 AM on October 8 [+] [!]

Oh God I hope not. I thought they were all sort of jockeying for an anchor spot (like it occurred to me this summer that their "road warriors" seemed to be gunning for face time in order to get the next step up), and that's what Hallie Jackson's look was about, but this...would be worse.

Fuck that would be terrible.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:38 AM on October 8, 2016

Wait so now we're going from "Trump tells it like it is", "this is just typical locker room talk", etc. to "AT LEAST TRUMP ISN'T A WUSS LIKE ALL YOU BETAS WHO DON'T RAPE WOMEN ON THE REGULAR."

Honestly, I bet "You all want to do it, I'm just not a pussy so I actually go through with it" is probably something that a lot of serial assaulters and rapists actually believe. Just one more little example of the magic of toxic masculinity.
posted by IAmUnaware at 11:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

On the other hand if you are having trouble understanding how damaging this is to Trump, remember that people who deny the very existence of rape culture and would have no problem at all with rating women in the locker room will be utterly appalled by what he has said.

Yeah, I don't believe for a second that Ryan, Pence, and the rest of the GOP leadership have decided to give a shit about sexual violence against women. Trump just finally got too embarrassing to associate with.

It's like the brothers of the most notorious frat at Rohypnol U trying to pretend they're not with that one pledge who can't hold his liquor and keeps shouting to the rest of the bar about what a pussy hound he is.
posted by bibliowench at 11:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]

There were a few women posting on Billy Bush's Facebook page last night who were all, "All men talk like this" and responded to other women objecting with, "Yes including yours, sweetie, I 100% guarantee it. You're fooling yourself if you think they don't." Deep, deep in the Patriarchy. I don't know how to reach women like that.
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 11:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]

I should be surprised by the continuing support of Evangelicals but I'm not. Fundamentalists often have the same misogyny and fucked up sexuality as the Tangerine Scream but they couch it differently. While fundies have their molesting priests, their polygamous child brides that they've been grooming since age 5, and their cheating preachers, they have a different narrative and they probably apply it to the Donald as well. The Donald is about alpha male entitlement and King of the World dominance, but fundies blame the women who are 'evil temptresses' (even if they're children) who led them down the wrong path and they ask for Jesus's forgiveness. But underneath, I think they're all the same. I'm sure the fundies blame Trump's victims as well.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 11:40 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Is that why Pence isn't going to Wisconsin? Is there any possibility he's staying home to cram for a debate appearance?

If Pence wants to spend another 90 minutes trying to deny things Trump is on tape saying, more power to him, I guess.
posted by AndrewInDC at 11:40 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

There is to be another revelation about Trump and women in NY Times Opinion page Sunday

They decided to release it early: Donald Trump, Groper in Chief

That's not new. It came out yesterday.
posted by invincible summer at 11:42 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

We pray for his family and look forward to the opportunity he has to show what is in his heart when he goes before the nation tomorrow night.

KAAAALI-MAAAA!
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:42 AM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]

Add Senator Lisa Murkowski to the list - boom. (twitter)
posted by sallybrown at 11:43 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

Wait so now we're going from "Trump tells it like it is", "this is just typical locker room talk", etc. to "AT LEAST TRUMP ISN'T A WUSS LIKE ALL YOU BETAS WHO DON'T RAPE WOMEN ON THE REGULAR."

this is going to bring out ugliness in unprecedented ways; for some people this is not a shocker, but a normalizer.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 11:43 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

From my friend on FB:

When they came for the Mexicans, you said nothing.
When they came for the Muslims, you said nothing.
When they came for the Black Lives, you said nothing.
Now they have come to grab you by the pussy, and this is too far?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:45 AM on October 8, 2016 [81 favorites]

and now Senator Deb Fischer of Nebraska says bye bye Donald (twitter)

Phyllis Schlafly, I so wish you were alive to see this!
posted by sallybrown at 11:45 AM on October 8, 2016 [26 favorites]

This has the potential to put a big asterisk beside Hillary Clinton's name in the history books, with the implication that she only won because her primary opposition imploded.

That still puts her ahead of:

Lyndon B. Johnson
Theodore Roosevelt
Chester A. Arthur
Andrew Johnson

All of whom became President because the previous guy died. I haven't noticed any of them with asterisks beside their names in the history books (well, at least not because of that). Besides, I'm pretty sure that Hillary Clinton has no intention of being the first one term female President of the United States.
posted by AdamCSnider at 11:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [39 favorites]

KATY TUR JUST SLIPPED UP AND SAID "REPUBLICAN LAWBREAKERS"

Holy shit this is the best day ever.
posted by Talez at 11:48 AM on October 8, 2016 [60 favorites]

That's not new. It came out yesterday.

"early", as in "We've posted my Sunday column early: It recounts Trump forcing himself on a woman-in Ivanka's bedroom http://nyti.ms/2dLMFdJ #GroperinChief"
posted by effbot at 11:49 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Anyone else think she was threatened so severely that she had to be taken out of the field for her own safety?

I don't think so, thankfully. She was on the road for the western swing last week, and had this conversation for Showtime. Today she was probably booked to go to Wisconsin, and when that got cancelled, MSNBC gave her anchor duty (as its main political team decamps to St Louis).

They are more than ready to fill the vacuum of knowledge about Pence with truly scary and cringeworthy facts

Such as his support for Donald Trump.

(Seriously, if Victory Fund is being frozen, you have to start asking about what happens if a campaign ends with millions of dollars in its bank account. Most campaigns finish with debt that needs to be retired.)
posted by holgate at 11:49 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

The man says, "The Aristocrats!"
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:50 AM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]

I cannot imagine the amount of shit and harassment that Katie Tur and Hallie Jackson have endured covering Trump. I hope there's an anchor desk for both of them at the end of this.
posted by Ber at 11:50 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

This day is so great that not even being gaslit inside a thread about Donald Trump wanting to grab my pussy can bring me down from this high.
posted by sallybrown at 11:51 AM on October 8, 2016 [24 favorites]

the enemy of my enemy may still be my enemy.

i mean stalin didn't like hitler either
posted by poffin boffin at 11:51 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

Katy Tur's going back to London, I imagine. She's certainly qualified to report on Brexit Crazy.
posted by holgate at 11:52 AM on October 8, 2016

The Guardian had that story in July. Why is it only in the Times now?
posted by amarynth at 11:53 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

btw just wanted to applaud Rhaomi on this cornicopia of a post. If I didn't have to go to work, I'd be here all day.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 11:54 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Oh, wait, the url says July but the story says Oct. Never mind!
posted by amarynth at 11:55 AM on October 8, 2016

Thus spake a high school friend on Facebook:

"I have a 15-year-old daughter, but just for the record, I've hated misogyny since WELL before she was born."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:55 AM on October 8, 2016 [41 favorites]

Donald didn't pull out on time and now they are in a shotgun marriage, broke and pregnant.
posted by humanfont at 11:56 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

So all Pence said was basically "Sending thoughts and prayers"? Weak.
posted by Wordshore at 11:56 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Yes, he says he'll never pull out. Ouch! Well, or not.
posted by Oyéah at 11:57 AM on October 8, 2016

I wish PredictIt had shares about whether Donald will spew out one or more late-night Tweetfests before the end of the campaign. That's definitely something I'd put money on.

Remember, they chose this guy. I don't think it's an accident that a raging misogynist is the GOP response to the first Democratic woman nominee. I would hope this is the last, desperate gasp of dying toxic masculinity, but instead it seems to just mainstream hate in ways previously hidden in the shadows.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 11:58 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

Spare a kind thought for your company's IT staff, who will spend the next week poring over web filter logs trying to figure out who was searching for pornography and who was just reading about the election.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:02 PM on October 8, 2016 [36 favorites]

Oh, wait, the url says July but the story says Oct. Never mind!

No, it's from July. Here's a Guardian tweet from yesterday, and here's Jessica Valenti commenting on the article in an article dated July 20. Guardian seems to have messed up the dates in the article when they started promoting it again.
posted by effbot at 12:03 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

If Republicans do this [replace Trump], they'll lose even bigger they are already going to.

Oh sure, they definitely would, but at least they'd lose with the shred of dignity they need to start rebuilding their party.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 12:03 PM on October 8, 2016

Melania Trump: "The words my husband used are unacceptable and offensive to me. This does not represent the man that I know. He has the heart and mind of a leader. I hope people will accept his apology, as I have, and focus on the important issues facing our nation and the world." (twitter)
posted by sallybrown at 12:03 PM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

You know what? Rape culture, sexual assault, and misogyny ARE important issues facing our nation and the world.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:04 PM on October 8, 2016 [132 favorites]

Josh Marshall: A Few Thoughts on the Video

Let's take this tweet as a placeholder for a lot of GOP 'how could we have known' excuses.

@TheFix: Republicans I talk to tonight are sort of stunned. They knew Trump was dangerous for the party. They didn't know he was this dangerous.

This is literally laughable.

We can't say the emergence of this tape was predictable. But the behavior is not at all surprising based on what we already knew. Indeed, I would almost say this whole line of reasoning is offensive, in this sense: Sexual assault is terrible. But it's hardly the only terrible thing that has been dredged up by this election. What about the campaigns of hate and occasional violence spurred by this campaign? [...]

The institutional Republican party has endorsed and supported a dangerous man, enabling the damage he's done during the campaign and leaving the country open to innumerable depredations should he become president. #NeverTrump ended up being a marginal reality, backed by only a few Republicans and virtually no officeholders. If this tape brings them around to some measure of responsibility later, wonderful. But this has been a game they've been playing for months with eyes wide open.

posted by tonycpsu at 12:04 PM on October 8, 2016 [25 favorites]

I would hope this is the last, desperate gasp of dying toxic masculinity, but instead it seems to just mainstream hate in ways previously hidden in the shadows.

This might actually be a good thing in that it's easier to fight if you don't have quite so many people denying that it actually exists, but even so the best case scenario is that things are going to get pretty ugly for a while.
posted by IAmUnaware at 12:04 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

I would hope this is the last, desperate gasp of dying toxic masculinity, but instead it seems to just mainstream hate in ways previously hidden in the shadows.

yes, basically this. similar to how 8 years of aggressive racism and xenophobia from the repubs towards obama has normalized aggressive racism and xenophobia in the general public.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:04 PM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]

My mom is a diehard Republican despite being as far as I can tell, pretty socially liberal. I made her go through the VoteCompass test and she came out as 75% agreeing with Clinton. She's as annoyed/disgusted with this pussy thing as everyone else. And yet just now she was all, "I just can't stand the both of them!" and "But why is not voting the same as voting for Trump?"

I was all, "If you genuinely think both of them are the exact same at this point, I do not know what to say to you." There is just nothing you can goddamned do about people being blockheads on a topic.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:04 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

>>They are morenthan ready to fill the vacuum of knowledge on Oence...

I-ball: >Eh, maybe. Will they have time to propagate it though?

The Clinton campaign bought tons of late TV ad time early, locking in cheaper rates. I'm certain they can run whatever ad they like in those slots.

Meanwhile, the media will have a huge news hole as reporters scramble to learn more about Pence. It will be very easy to get coverage for hard-hitting ads as well as the well-documented allegations in those ads.

AND! The new VP will be fodder as well. Ben Carson's fake knife attack? Nikki Haley's alleged affair?
posted by msalt at 12:04 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Corey Lewandowski: "He speaks the way many times people talk around their dining room table."

I've sat at many dining room tables with many different people. Not once has the conversation included anyone bragging about sexually assaulting someone. Nice try!
posted by SisterHavana at 12:06 PM on October 8, 2016 [20 favorites]

Melania Trump: "The words my husband used are unacceptable and offensive to me. This does not represent the man that I know. He has the heart and mind of a leader. I hope people will accept his apology, as I have, and focus on the important issues facing our nation and the world."

Welp, there goes the "Hillary the enabler" angle.
posted by Sys Rq at 12:06 PM on October 8, 2016 [35 favorites]

Finally to the end of the new thread! Hi everybody!

So it's clear that Donald is going to attempt to use Bill and Hillary's "enabling" to go on the attack tomorrow, right? I have to admit, I'm a little worried about that. I know Hillary's got this, and that she's going to be prepared as fuck, and that Donald literally does not have the temperament to pull off the absolute tightrope walk that would be actually succeeding with that line of attack...but I'm still worried.

Also, here's my out-there prediction: Donald walks out of the debate. Someone will ask a difficult question, the moderators will press him on an offensive statement or lie, Hillary drops a new oppo bomb on him, whatever: Donald might actually, literally, walk the fuck out.
posted by yasaman at 12:06 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

@Schwarzenegger 11 minutes ago As proud as I am to label myself a Republican, there is one label that I hold above all else - American. My full statement:

You know it's bad when OTHER politicians elected after confessing to sexual assault are renouncing you.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 12:07 PM on October 8, 2016 [20 favorites]

Dammit, I'm out of favorites again. Everyone, just consider my thanks are with you.
posted by corb at 12:07 PM on October 8, 2016 [43 favorites]

Trump is a deeply ill-considered bet on the deplorable vote, rushed through by the GOP leadership.

I'd also like to point out that the GOP aren't good. Like, understanding there are different types of Muslims before invading one country or the other. No-bid incontestable contracts for war profiteers. Paul LaPage. Bobby Jindal. They're only good at power-grabbing, intimidation, and bullshit.

This is going to cut them wide open for a few years at least - BUT it depends on the news media. The only reason this is still looping today is that we haven't had a full news cycle or anything to bump it yet.

That, and the sheer disgusting nature of the comments AND ACTIONS of Trump have pissed off the formerly leashed talking heads for awhile.
posted by petebest at 12:08 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Oh god, I think I'm actually going to want to watch a debate tomorrow, and I haaaaaaaaaaate shit like that.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:09 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

At what point will the financial backers for properties bearing his name start to consider re-branding?
posted by cmfletcher at 12:09 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

All the talking heads smell blood.

Good.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:10 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

Proposed new question for tomorrow night:

Mr. Trump, your campaign seems to have the momentum of a runaway freight train...that has jumped the rails and is now careening towards a gorge, threatening to kill everyone on board. What advice would you give those looking to get off?
posted by nubs at 12:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]

There are so many people urging Trump to bail that I can't even keep up: Senator Cory Gardner of CO, the Governor of Alabama, Rep. Erik Paulson of Minnesota
posted by sallybrown at 12:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

I've noticed an edge creeping into Trump's statements:

"Let's be honest, we're living in the real world."

"About his sexually charged statements caught on tape, Mr. Trump said, “People get it. They get life."

Somebody has managed to calm him down, but there's a clear subtext here: "this is all perfectly normal and if you people weren't so PC all the time you'd all get that." And it's not really even a subtext, because it was pretty overtly said that way in his first non-apology statement. Even now, he's going with "toughen up" as his response. He doesn't get it. Does he really think people will go "yeah he's right, in the real world there's lots of sexual assaults, so who cares about this?" That works for the lowest of the deplorables, but it just makes everyone else more angry.

[I was really hoping for a prize at the bottom of the cereal box thread, but all I found were a ton of awesome comments]
posted by zachlipton at 12:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

Clinton has to shake the hand of that monster before the debate tomorrow. She'll do it without throwing up, but I know I couldn't.
posted by dazed_one at 12:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

Prediction for the dabate:
Trump reaches out to shake hands.
Hillary takes a step back, covering her crotch.
Crowd goes WILD.
posted by sexyrobot at 12:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [37 favorites]

I really, really want to see more pushback against all of these Republicans who are so appalled by Donald Trump's "words," and not the actions that those words describe.

Donald Trump bragged about committing sexual assault on tape. That should be the fucking headline. None of this mealy-mouthed faux-outrage at his "words." The words are disgusting, but they are not the worst thing here. He could use the most polite language possible and the crime would be the same.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 12:14 PM on October 8, 2016 [52 favorites]

At what point will the financial backers for properties bearing his name start to consider re-branding?

Last week. Ivanka announced a new hotel brand named Scion.
posted by acidic at 12:14 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

I think I might just break down crying when she has to shake his hand tomorrow. Too many women know what it feels like to have to smile and shake the hand of a man you know is a serial sexual assaulter/harasser.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:15 PM on October 8, 2016 [69 favorites]

I predict the ratings for tomorrow night's debate are going to smash the record ratings of the first debate.
posted by SisterHavana at 12:16 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

So it's clear that Donald is going to attempt to use Bill and Hillary's "enabling" to go on the attack tomorrow, right? I have to admit, I'm a little worried about that. I know Hillary's got this, and that she's going to be prepared as fuck, and that Donald literally does not have the temperament to pull off the absolute tightrope walk that would be actually succeeding with that line of attack...but I'm still worried.

I'm not worried. This tape and WHEN it was recorded so plays into Hillary's hand to help her pivot and demonstrate how she has spent the last 16 years in public service, in stark contrast to Trump.

Imagine: "Well, [Anderson Cooper or whoever in the audience], there are two people on this stage who are running for President of the United States. In 2005, when I was a United States Senator, I was voting against CAFTA and working across party lines with colleagues like Senator Lindsey Graham to develop incentives and rewards for companies that manufacture their products in the United States. My opponent was, well...you know."
posted by AndrewInDC at 12:16 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Yeah, at this point the Republicans and/or media outlets who want a horse race are framing this as being about Trump saying the word "pussy", not about Trump admitting to sexually assaulting women. Hence Lewandowski's claim that this is how people talk around the dinner table.
posted by Sara C. at 12:17 PM on October 8, 2016

I was gonna skip voting this year; but Trump talked me into voting against him.
It was his constant use of words and ideas like always, never, everything, the best ever, the worst ever, combined with his understanding of how to accuse people of doing the very things he does regularly, and brags about!
I decided a week or two ago to vote against Teleprompter Trump.
The only thing I can imagine making me vote for Hillary... is Lying, Crooked, Adulterous, Hypocritical, Thieving, Floorflushig, Bankrupt, Welfare Collecting, Tax Evading, Draft Dodging, Whore mongering, Teleprompter Reading, Indebted to Wall Street, Putin Admiring Traitor, War Hero Slandering, Biggoted, Pussy Grabbing, Sexual Assaulting, Foreign Investor, Glittering Generalities, Truth Twisting Trump.
He just keeps on reminding me to show up at the poles.
posted by Mike Hunt at 12:17 PM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]

I'm 46 years old. I have never heard men speak like that when women are not around.

I worked in construction for almost a decade with some pretty rough characters and they could be crude as hell about women but I never heard any of them brag about sexual assault.
posted by octothorpe at 12:19 PM on October 8, 2016 [62 favorites]

Bottom line about Trump going on the offensive about Bill's past is that Hillary has been deflecting that for 16 years at this point.

If it didn't keep her out of the senate when the wounds were fresh and Bill was still in office as a lame duck, letting it hurt her now would have to involve the worlds biggest own goal.
posted by Sara C. at 12:19 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Does he really think people will go "yeah he's right, in the real world there's lots of sexual assaults, so who cares about this?"

i'm guessing you've never read a game of thrones thread here then.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:20 PM on October 8, 2016 [20 favorites]

I worked in construction for almost a decade with some pretty rough characters and they could be crude as hell about women but I never heard any of them brag about sexual assault.

Can we stop with these derails?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:21 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

Smithers! Boil some coffee! We're not licked yet!

#NextPost
posted by petebest at 12:21 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Republicans insisted it was too late to extend voter registration for hurricane evacuees YESTERDAY. Now they wanna reprint all the ballots.
posted by winna at 12:21 PM on October 8, 2016 [84 favorites]

Yeah, when I sit down to dinner with my family and Mom asks me how my day went, I always say, "Well, not too bad. I moved on this woman like a bitch, she was married, I failed to fuck her. Then I grabbed someone else by her pussy, I didn't ask, they let you do that."

Fuck you Lewandowski, you shitbag. Drop dead.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:21 PM on October 8, 2016 [39 favorites]

Just because it may be technically legally possible does not mean that Trump's ardent supporters will roll over and take it. They will revolt if this is done.

Except that it is not "technically legally possible." While it is true that one is voting for electors, not a candidate, what the electors do in the event of a candidate no longer being on the ballot varies according the state law. Some states leave it up to the elector's discretion. Others "bind" the electors to vote in accordance with the majority of their precincts. Those states include: Alabama, Alaska, North and South Carolina, Florida, Ohio, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Montana, Tennessee, Utah, Wyoming - all states any GOP candaidte must win to even have a chance at 270 electoral votes. Many of those states, as noted above, also are past the due date for adding/changing a name on the ballot. That means their electors are legally required to cast votes for Trump (should he win in their precincts), not Fill-In-The-Blank GOP Candidate.
In short, there is no Hail Mary for the GOP. Very likely what they will do next is abandon Trump the way they abandoned Dole in October 1996.
posted by eustacescrubb at 12:22 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

I'm curious to see if Trump's overt misogyny is the last straw that finally loosens the Republican hold on white women. (White women have voted Republican in 9 out of the 10 last presidential elections, the lone exception being Bill Clinton in 1996.)
posted by splitpeasoup at 12:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

GOP opprobrium rankings:

Anti-Muslim bigotry < anti-Mexican bigotry < sexism < sexual assault bragging < minor marginal tax rate hike

via @brianbeutler
posted by Freen at 12:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [19 favorites]

It's downright cruel that we aren't provided more favorites at moments like this.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 12:24 PM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]

Some staffers inside the Republican National Committee are rebelling and “defying orders” to continue working for Donald Trump, according to a source familiar with the situation.
posted by Talez at 12:25 PM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]

splitpeasoup, based on my family FB, it has loosened them to "Hillary is just as bad, but there are other options than Trump and Clinton."
posted by instamatic at 12:25 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

It's downright cruel that we aren't provided more favorites at moments like this.

I just hit my favorite limit for the first time ever. I can't believe it. Maybe this is finally the surely this moment and Trump will be destroyed.
posted by cashman at 12:26 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

Colbert, from a show that taped Thursday: Trump's Objectification Of Women Is Becoming A Campaign Issue
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:28 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

‏@TicTacUSA

Tic Tac respects all women. We find the recent statements and behavior completely inappropriate and unacceptable.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:28 PM on October 8, 2016 [98 favorites]

It's downright cruel that we aren't provided more favorites at moments like this.

Agreed - I've been out of favorites for the last 100+ posts.. consider yourself favorited
posted by mumimor at 12:30 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Which country's democracy gives the option of literally voting against a candidate? Where if you don't want somebody to win you can vote to negate a vote for them? We should have that in the US.
posted by I-baLL at 12:31 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Can you die of too much schadenfreude? I will stop being complacent and smug and hilarious tomorrow, really, I promise. Today, I will enjoy every swallow of my frosty chalice of delicious schadenfreude.
posted by theora55 at 12:32 PM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]

Now seems like a good time for everyone who's signed one of Trump's NDAs to all come forward at once with their various sordid tales, and just dare him to sue.
posted by contraption at 12:32 PM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]

Donald Trump bragged about committing sexual assault on tape. That should be the fucking headline. None of this mealy-mouthed faux-outrage at his "words." The words are disgusting, but they are not the worst thing here. He could use the most polite language possible and the crime would be the same.

It's been a mix in terms of the media coverage. Most of the initial stories did describe it as "Trump uses lewd language" and played it as general disrespect toward women, but within a couple of hours, the sexual assault side of it was the main story. The Times ran in print with a headline of "Tape Reveals Trump Boast About Groping Women," putting the focus on the actions and not the language. The Post ran "lewd chat" but included "bragged of groping" in the subhead. WSJ just went with "lewd Trump comments," focusing on words and not actions. The Chicago Tribune has "Trump boats of groping women." Weirdly, the LA Times gave it just an inch below the fold and tell you to turn to A10. When I watched cable news last night, there was a pretty good focus on the sexual assault and not just the words.

So not a clear focus on his actions, but it's not all just "he said bad words" either.

Some stories are starting to contextualize his words with the other accusations, which range from rape to groping, including other instances of unwanted kissing, to repeated unwanted advances to the many many things he's said. I said it a few days ago, but this is a freaking missing stair situation, and this guy climbed the staircase all the way to a coinflip away from the Presidency. We all knew about several of these accusations, though a couple of new ones have come out in the past day. Why on earth weren't they enough?
posted by zachlipton at 12:33 PM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

Where if you don't want somebody to win you can vote to negate a vote for them? We should have that in the US.

Then nobody would hold public office. Maybe we'd just have to pick holders of public office in the same way we pick jurors: random draw!
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:33 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

So not one but TWO candy companies have had to go to social media to Save Their Brand from the words and actions of a racist, sexist Presidential candidate and his spawn.
posted by maudlin at 12:34 PM on October 8, 2016 [43 favorites]

If it comes to the Supreme Court to decide another presidency, we will all understand precisely why they wouldn't even dream of holding hearings for Garland. For the current Republican party, justice is meaningless; it's only about winning. That's reason #306 I'm With Her.
posted by theora55 at 12:37 PM on October 8, 2016 [24 favorites]

Jesus is not eligible to vote in this election.
posted by theora55 at 12:37 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

Here's a handy spreadsheet (Google Docs) of GOP elected officials' responses to the Trump video, courtesy of Taniel on Twitter.
posted by SisterHavana at 12:40 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Meanwhile my dad is still ranting about how "all the debates and primaries were rigged for Hillary, why shouldn't the election be too."

Remind me not to get old.
posted by delfin at 12:41 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Clinton has to shake the hand of that monster before the debate tomorrow.

This thought has been genuinely upsetting me since yesterday. I don't want her to have to touch him. I don't even want her in the same room as him. That's just a visceral, automatic reaction on my part, and it's what I'd think about any woman I care about having to share a room with him. Hell, any woman I don't care about.
posted by yasaman at 12:43 PM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump (real)

The media and establishment want me out of the race so badly - I WILL NEVER DROP OUT OF THE RACE, WILL NEVER LET MY SUPPORTERS DOWN! #MAGA
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:43 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Reminder: Don't get old.
posted by Too-Ticky at 12:44 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Those I don't mind. It's the "Sure, Trump is bad, but Jesus will save us" that is blowing my mind. Apparently Jesus can rescue us from a disgusting racist rapey blowhard, but if Hillary appoints a Supreme Court justice we're doomed.

"I sent you a rowboat, Khizr and Ghazala Khan, Alicia Machado, and 'grab them by the pussy.' What the hell are you doing here?"
posted by zachlipton at 12:44 PM on October 8, 2016 [79 favorites]

Someone at Washington University in the background of CNN has a sign that says "Groping women is not lewd, it's sexual assault."
posted by Sophie1 at 12:44 PM on October 8, 2016 [44 favorites]

Of course the hand-wringing is about holding onto power.

Yes there are true believers in the Republican party but for a lot if politicos it's a means to an end and Trump is threatening to be a massive boat anchor dragging them down.

Of course they also risk pissing off the toxic cesspool of alt-right shit heads who totally believe women and women's bodies are the god given right if men to own and police.
posted by vuron at 12:44 PM on October 8, 2016

CNN: Donald Trump to Howard Stern: It's okay to call my daughter a 'piece of ass'
posted by peacheater at 12:44 PM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]

Jesus is not eligible to vote in this election.

considering his nation of origin and his politics i doubt he'd be granted a visitation visa to the US much less citizenship.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:45 PM on October 8, 2016 [45 favorites]

The media and establishment want me out of the race so badly - I WILL NEVER DROP OUT OF THE RACE, WILL NEVER LET MY SUPPORTERS DOWN! #MAGA

God he's terrifying, isn't he. What does never mean here, anyway? Like not even when you've lost?
posted by dis_integration at 12:45 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

I think Sam Wang has it exactly right here:
In one common sentiment, catching Trump on tape bragging about groping women without consent is somehow a last straw that has caused supporters to desert him...
I would argue that this weekend’s public blowback is triggered by a growing realization of what will happen on November 8th. After the first debate, it became obvious that Trump was going to lose the general election. Clinton’s bounceback is small, but by modern (i.e. post-1996) standards it looks large. There isn’t enough time for opinion to shift back (for instance, within my random diffusion assumption), especially given the natural setpoint of the race (my Bayesian prior that assumes regression to the mean). In other words, people’s intuitions started telling them that time had run out for Trump...
Elected officials have a nose for the stench of a candidate who is on the cusp of becoming a loser. All along, Republican officials have been skittish about Trump, who executed a hostile takeover of their party. Now they have an excuse to jump ship.
posted by peacheater at 12:47 PM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]

Hillary Clinton has been in much tougher situations than having to shake the hand of Donald Trump. She's got this.
posted by The corpse in the library at 12:48 PM on October 8, 2016 [20 favorites]

Why on earth weren't they enough?

Rape culture.

Also the media being more interested in reporting on the campaign than on the policies and actions of the candidates. Like, I believe he probably would not have won the primary if the media had focused on his actual policies instead of the phenomenon of his campaign.

There has always been a lot of material available on his abusive misogyny, but it has been drowned out by horse race coverage. It only gets the attention it deserves when some incident gets enough traction to affect the race, and is therefore newsworthy. The same for his overt racism, which is not as newsworthy because there is not as much Republican outcry, and therefore, less effect on the race.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 12:49 PM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

Remind me not to get old.

We fight a lot of battles in MeFi over "-ist" language, and ageist barbs should not get a pass just...because.

I'm 53, don't know whether that qualifies as old to you or not, but I grew up with Nixon, and was a teenager and first time voter during the Reagan years. I've seen contentious elections before, and have heard both sides many times.
I'm happily, enthusiastically voting for Hillary and it absolutely has to do with my age, my experience and what i've lived through. if your father is an asshole, or you become as asshole as you get older that's on you, it has nothing to do with the aging process.
posted by OHenryPacey at 12:49 PM on October 8, 2016 [156 favorites]

Trump talking head on MSNBC: "Not one Democrat is denounced Hillary for Benghazi, for emails, for her talk about free trade and open borders"

Wow. Just. Fucking wow. Someone's desperately trying to earn their chutzpah merit badge.
posted by Talez at 12:49 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

I'm confused by the talk of "replacing Trump" on the ballot. Does the party "own" a spot on the ballot that they could have (had they done it earlier) swapped names in and out of at will? I thought people were nominated to run, sometimes by a party, but then it was the person who was on the ballot, not the the nominator somehow applied for a spot on the ballot they could fill with whomever.

So even if the Republicans decided they wanted to run someone else (where it earlier), they wouldn't be "replacing trump" on the ballot, they would be A) Publicly saying they did not endorse Trump and expelling him from their caucus and maybe even as a party member (this might still leave him listed as a republican candidate on the ballot, since it would still be accurate to say they nominated him and B) Nominating someone else (who would then (also) be listed as being nominated by the republican party).

Can you unnominate someone once you've petitioned to put their name on the balllot (I mean the form to get on the ballot is basically a petitiion, right?) I would think that even if republicans disavowed him and had done it months ago, his name would remain on any ballot it had already been approved for.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 12:52 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Remind me not to get old.

Bernie Sanders is old.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 12:53 PM on October 8, 2016 [19 favorites]

You guys, what if the GOP has Ted Cruz change his name to "Donald Trump"??? Think about it!!!

Pretty sure the nomination papers would include a DOB and address.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 12:53 PM on October 8, 2016

Hillary's campaign said they won't make a statement about Trump's casual discussion of sexual assault until the debate tomorrow.
posted by cmfletcher at 12:54 PM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

Editorial from the extremely conservative, LDS-owned Deseret News: In our opinion: Donald Trump should resign his candidacy

For 80 years, the Deseret News has not entered into the troubled waters of presidential endorsement. We are neutral on matters of partisan politics. We do, however, feel a duty to speak clearly on issues that affect the well-being and morals of the nation.

Accordingly, today we call on Donald Trump to step down from his pursuit of the American presidency.

In democratic elections, ideas have consequences, leadership matters and character counts.

The idea that women secretly welcome the unbridled and aggressive sexual advances of powerful men has led to the mistreatment, sorrow and subjugation of countless women for far too much of human history.

posted by Existential Dread at 12:54 PM on October 8, 2016 [104 favorites]

Ted Cruz adapts.
posted by vbfg at 12:55 PM on October 8, 2016

if only I had a penguin: see my comment above - short answer, no, the GOP can't replace Trump as nominee this late in the game.
posted by eustacescrubb at 12:55 PM on October 8, 2016

NYT Reporter Ashley Parker: This morning, Pence called Trump and told him he had to handle the next 48 hours alone. He didn't think he'd be an effective surrogate.
posted by cashman at 12:55 PM on October 8, 2016 [45 favorites]

Someday, in a time of greater bounty, I am going to come back to this thread and favorite all of these delicious comments. Maybe on election night after I've drunk my fill of champagne.

Donald's refusal to give in is going to tear the fabric of the Republican Party (the people who support Trump) from the elite standard-bearers. Everyone disavowing Trump from the stage is getting booed and heckled. If Trump won't drop out, the Party will end.
posted by sallybrown at 12:55 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

Does the party "own" a spot on the ballot that they could have (had they done it earlier) swapped names in and out of at will?

From a couple of months ago, not exactly. Besides, people are already voting, because all of the military ballots have already gone out.
posted by rhizome at 12:55 PM on October 8, 2016

Upset about whatever Hillary said about Paula Jones and Monica Lewinsky. Wait till they start playing tapes of what Trump said. So far the CNN has uncovered this nugget on Paula Jones.
posted by humanfont at 12:57 PM on October 8, 2016

humanfont, I think you posted the wrong soundcloud link. That's about a former Miss Universe Jennifer Hawkins, not Paula Jones.
posted by chris24 at 12:59 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Here's what happens if Trump drops out
What would happen is the party’s new candidate would essentially get the votes cast for the previous one. This is because when voters head to the polls, they’re not actually voting for a presidential candidate. Instead, they’re voting to select the representative that will represent their state at the Electoral College, which in turn meets in December to officially elect the next American president.

"When we go to the polls, we are not actually voting for the presidential candidates. We are voting for electors pledged to that person," Kamarck says.

This is why Clinton or Trump could theoretically still drop out at any point up to and including Election Day itself. It doesn’t even matter, technically, if the candidates’ names don’t appear on the ballots.

As screwy as it might sound, what matters is whose party’s Electoral College representatives end up with more votes. Those state electors are chosen by, and loyal to, the respective parties. It doesn’t matter which nominee the votes were intended for.

But there’s a catch: Some states make Electoral College representatives pledge to support a certain nominee
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:59 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

if only I had a penguin: see my comment above - short answer, no, the GOP can't replace Trump as nominee this late in the game.

Yes, I get that they can't this late in the game. My quesiton is about the word "replace". Could they EVER have "replaced" him once he got on the ballot (as opposed to choosing another candidate to endorse)? They don't own a spot no the ballot that they can just put a name on, do they? The can nominate someone else, but I don't see how that would un-nominate* Trump if his nomination* paperwork were in order, he would presumably remain on the ballot.

*By nomainte and unnominate, I mean file the paperwork that puts a person on the ballot, not "run a convention where you decide to nominate a candidate". Once the paperwork is filed and he's met the criteria/conditions/requirements to be placed on the ballot, Republicans officially unendorsing him or choosing another candidate, shouldn't remove him from the ballot.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:00 PM on October 8, 2016

I know Hillary can handle shaking his hand, that's not the point. The point is she shouldn't have to.
posted by corb at 1:00 PM on October 8, 2016 [40 favorites]

>Editorial from the extremely conservative, LDS-owned Deseret News: In our opinion: Donald Trump should resign his candidacy

Hey, this is really good.

"And although it speaks volumes about sexual morality, it goes to the heart of all ethical behavior. Trump’s banter belies a willingness to use and discard other human beings at will. That characteristic is the essence of a despot."

Fuckin' A.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 1:00 PM on October 8, 2016 [131 favorites]

In other words, people’s intuitions started telling them that time had run out for Trump...
Elected officials have a nose for the stench of a candidate who is on the cusp of becoming a loser. All along, Republican officials have been skittish about Trump, who executed a hostile takeover of their party. Now they have an excuse to jump ship.

If this theory is correct, and I believe there's a fair amount of truth behind it, then the scary thing is that all these people aren't jumping ship because their candidate, who had already been repeatedly accused of sexual assault, was recorded bragging about committing sexual assault, but rather because he was losing. And thus there will be little hope of stopping the next sexual predator before he's entirely too close to the Presidency.
posted by zachlipton at 1:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

From the Desnews, that is shocking. I am amazed, and delighted.
posted by Oyéah at 1:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Reporters-What about this latest allegation?

Pence-You know I'm not sure Trump is a real person. I think he might be a fictional character developed the liberal media. Besides if there was a Trump anything he said is less awful than Benghazi and deleted emails. Oh and won't someone think of the rights of the unborn?
posted by vuron at 1:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

An Open Letter To Donald Trump From Some Angry Women.

We seethe with anger when we read your tweet blaming military sexual assault on the fact that women are in the military.

We haven’t forgotten your lurid tweet about Hillary Clinton not being able to “satisfy” her husband.

Not only do you not understand women, you seem to have an awful lot of contempt for them. This is not fitting for a man who wants to be President in the 21st Century.

Which leads me to this:

Make America Great Again.

We know exactly what you meant when you branded yourself with this slogan. It’s not-so-coded language for a time gone by. Your “great” America wasn’t so great for women and minorities and gay people.

We won’t go back.

posted by Existential Dread at 1:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [62 favorites]

Madison-based reporter Jessie Opoien is live-tweeting the Wisconsin rally (i.e., the one at which Trump and Pence aren’t). So far, it sounds like most of the speakers aren’t mentioning their nominee by name; there is a loud contingent, but not a majority, of Trumpist hecklers. Ryan hasn’t started speaking yet.
posted by nicepersonality at 1:02 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Suggestion for the writers: write-in candidate mayhem. GOP officially recommends it but they still can't agree on a candidate. All 17 originals, minus Trump, plus Pence and Egg. There could be debates! The Republican Primary: Season 2.
posted by acidic at 1:03 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

A pleasant sight on Twitter is the Trumpistas proclaiming that they won't vote for any candidate who doesn't support the Groper-in-Chief. This is an attitude I wish to see widely adopted.

When does this weekend poll? For some reason, I am curious.
posted by Devonian at 1:03 PM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]

Most of the polls will have set their schedule to align with the debate Sunday night, so the reaction to this and the debate will probably be bundled together in the next drop of poll results in a few days.
posted by zachlipton at 1:04 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Part of statesmanship (is it too clunky to say 'statespersonship'?) is shaking some guy's hand even though he may be a rat-bastard. You're gonna have to go talk to some shitty dictator, and you're gonna have to shake his hand; that's the job. Hillary will be perfectly fine shaking Trump's hand, and then mopping the God damn floor with him.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 1:05 PM on October 8, 2016 [29 favorites]

We fight a lot of battles in MeFi over "-ist" language, and ageist barbs should not get a pass just...because.

#NOTALLGEEZERS

I could go on about Trump in particular'sI and Republicans in general's support %s among senior citizens, or how about 75% of Free Republic is on Social Security, or various other details but in the interest of avoiding mod text I'll simply go with anecdata.

Twenty years ago, my dad (who is now in his 70s) was much more reachable and open to debate about things political. Now, he sits and devours his Facebook wall full of HILLARY LIES CHEATS STEALS BENGHAZI VINCE FOSTER EMAILS TREASON text walls and parrots them back because, frankly, he doesn't bother to think all that critically about the news any more. If I go upstate to my in-laws', I've learned to leave the room once the seniors gather because it's a Greek chorus of THAT OBAMA THINKS HE'S EMPEROR HILLARY IS EVEN WORSE DEMOCRATS ARE TREASONOUS AMERICA'S ALL GOING TO THE HOMOS AND MUSLIMS chatter.

The best part is that none of these seniors are, as far as I know, particularly jazzed at Candidate Trump but they _are_ patently terrified by Candidate Hillary. Because they have been carefully instructed to be.

So, yes, I am not calling for a Logan's Runesque purge of all seniors. But I do tire of seniors being sold a bill of goods by political machines and an uncomfortable percentage of them falling for it.
posted by delfin at 1:05 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

(is it too clunky to say 'statespersonship'?)

"Diplomacy"
posted by rhizome at 1:06 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

Meanwhile, Clinton rolls out an ad featuring Shane (twitter), a man Clinton met when he was a young man in foster care, she was the First Lady, and she asked him how she could help make the adoption and foster care system better.
posted by sallybrown at 1:06 PM on October 8, 2016 [27 favorites]

Where if you don't want somebody to win you can vote to negate a vote for them? We should have that in the US.

California has two ballot initiatives about the death penalty this year that negate each other. You can vote to outlaw the death penalty, but you can also vote to keep the death penalty (and also change some specifics of the law that affect exactly how the path to executing someone works). If you don't think critically and vote the same way on both (two yesses or two nos), your vote is cancelled out. It's confusing and weird. I really hope we never implement anything like this as the standard way to vote.
posted by Sara C. at 1:06 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'm confused by the talk of "replacing Trump" on the ballot. Does the party "own" a spot on the ballot that they could have (had they done it earlier) swapped names in and out of at will?

This was covered briefly in the Josh Marshall post linked up thread. It comes down, as most stupid election things do, to the Electoral College. Since the actual vote in each state merely instructs the individual Electors who to cast their vote for, in the case of a candidate withdrawing the party would select a substitute and ask that the electors who were supposed to vote for DQ Candidate X instead vote for New Candidate Y when they cast their ballot.

In theory. Basically this can't happen for a shit load of reasons. The biggest probably being that ealy voting has already begun in some states. But also each state's election laws are different, so even in a case where a cadidate died before the election each state would have its own rules on what to do, plus the ballots have already been printed. It'd be a huge giant mess. But don't worry, it can't happen.
posted by Diablevert at 1:07 PM on October 8, 2016

Scottie Neil Hughes, a Trump surrogate, is full of (rotten) gems about the 2005 tape

- He was not running for office or pandering for support at this time
- He is part of a world that produces moves and books and songs that use this type of language
- Donnie is running for president for one reason only: this country has problems that only he can fix
-- Elaboration: he didn't want this office (11 years ago?) and he knows that America is in so much trouble, he needs to help
- A new story on a similar account from 2010, reported by Erin Burnett, which is also new to Scottie is something that Trump has not responded to, so she can't respond either
- No surprise that Trump "liked beautiful women" because he lived in that world, which we see in movies
- We need to hold Hollywood actors accountable now, too
- Pivot to "Bill Clinton did it too, when he was in office" (which made another woman, off-camera say "oh my god")
- "Mr. Trump apologized, he said this was wrong" [PERSONAL CORRECTION: HE DID NO SUCH THING. His "apologies" were first "I'm sorry if you were offended," then "I said a bad thing, and I'm sorry" - what bad thing, Donnie?], which "shows that he is evolving" (into what?)

Great response: people support him because "he speaks from the heart," and this is what he did here, which should scare people," and that he is "an irredeemable pervert, a predator," which elicited a gasp and head shake of denial from Scottie.

Lash yourself to this sinking ship, Scottie, so that it may take you down with it.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:07 PM on October 8, 2016 [17 favorites]

I do tire of seniors being sold a bill of goods by political machines and an uncomfortable percentage of them falling for it.

That's not the fault of the seniors, though.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:07 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Paul Ryan speaking now - "We are giving the people choices"
Crowd member yells - "WHAT ABOUT TRUMP?!!?"
posted by cashman at 1:07 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

Ryan now speaking. [paraphrase] "I already told you what I think about Trump. So let's talk about local races! Okay! Y'know who's great? This guy, {local candidate}."

Totally tricked CNN who was set up waiting for him for hours.
posted by petebest at 1:08 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Someone just keeps yelling at Ryan after every other sentence - "what about Trump??!"
posted by cashman at 1:09 PM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]

CNN cuts away after 60 seconds of Ryan crapificating. Now peppering David Gergen with quesitons.
posted by petebest at 1:09 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

>Editorial from the extremely conservative, LDS-owned Deseret News: In our opinion: Donald Trump should resign his candidacy

A friend of mine pointed out on Facebook that most of the GOP members who were first to speak out against Trump on this were from Utah - Huntsman, Mike Lee, Jason Chaffetz, Romney....
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:09 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

Ryan's still talking, now there are multiple people yelling about Trump, asking if he still is giving his support to Trump. Ryan is now having to work Trump into his speech, replying "I don't think he (Trump) likes Obamacare either".
posted by cashman at 1:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

"This thing is in a death spiral."

Oh yes, but not the thing you think, you dead-eyed Randian ghoul.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Haha - literally one sentence of the only thing Ryan said about Trump, "There's an elephant in the room" is now the CNN chyron. Probably will be up for 30 minutes.

Now they're reading his statement from last night and talking about that. Y'all got hosed CNN.
posted by petebest at 1:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

But I do tire of seniors being sold a bill of goods by political machines and an uncomfortable percentage of them falling for it.

I think seniors are not as accepting of pussy grabbing as this condescension portrays, but even so, seniors are split fairly evenly between the parties.
posted by rhizome at 1:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Before vilifying all the old people, can we please remember that was Clinton's strongest age group during the primaries and will probably be one of her biggest constituencies going forward, too?

There are bad, foolish, wrong or don't-agree-with-me voters of all ages in both parties. It's not an age thing.
posted by rokusan at 1:13 PM on October 8, 2016 [25 favorites]

Please leave the 'old people suck' anecdata out of it. I've heard far more young bro dudes say things like 'grab them by the pussy' than I have men of my own age or older.
posted by Coda Tronca at 1:14 PM on October 8, 2016 [27 favorites]

. Since the actual vote in each state merely instructs the individual Electors who to cast their vote for, in the case of a candidate withdrawing the party would select a substitute and ask that the electors who were supposed to vote for DQ Candidate X instead vote for New Candidate Y when they cast their ballot.

So Trump's name would have remained no the ballot, but the party would have instructed his electors to vote for somebody else and hopefully (from the party's perspective) they would. AND the party would have put another name on the ballot and that person's electors would also vote for the new candidate?

But don't worry, it can't happen.

I wasn't worried. I was curious about how it worked. If you petitition to put Trump's name on the ballot, can you really turn around and say "I take it back" and get his name pulled OFF the ballot (that's the part I find hard to believe...that they could have added someone else if they'd done it months ago, I don't doubt, but pulling someone off seems like it should become nigh impossible 30 seconds after their name gets on, printed ballots or not).

And if they COULD somehow remove his name from the ballot (months ago), presumably that would require the SPECIFIC people who had signed the nomination petition to request that he be removed, right? And it's presumably the most ardent supporters who sign, in the case of a presidential candidate, so I can see how they could have (months ago) added another candidate, but it seems like even then "replacing" would have been impossible.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:14 PM on October 8, 2016

What's really disgusting is that NBC and the producers of the Apprentice have been sitting on this stuff for over a decade. Basically as long as Trump was making them money it was all good having to deal with Trump.

Leaking this now is NBC and others realizing that Trump collapsing in a flaming pile of excrement is preferable to continuing to empower him.

After all they can always get some other douchebro billionaire to be in charge of a new Apprentice. I suspect Mark Cuban would be willing to take the job.
posted by vuron at 1:14 PM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]

Katy Tur has a statement from Nancy O'Dell:

"Politics aside, I'm saddened that these comments still exist in our society at all. When I heard the comments yesterday, it was disappointing to hear such objectification of women. The conversation needs to change because no female, no person, should be the subject of such crass comments, whether or not cameras are rolling. Everyone deserves respect no matter the setting or gender. As a woman who has worked very hard to establish her career, and as a mom, I feel I must speak out with the hope that as a society we will always strive to be better."

posted by cashman at 1:16 PM on October 8, 2016 [31 favorites]

Leaking this now is NBC and others realizing that Trump collapsing in a flaming pile of excrement is preferable to continuing to empower him.

Helping to take him down is how NBC gets people to forget that they helped build him up.
posted by rhizome at 1:16 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Tic Tacs official response on Twitter.
posted by kimdog at 1:18 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

I suspect Mark Cuban would be willing to take the job.

Cuban has been a vocal Trump critic, and has his own successful show already on ABC.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:19 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

gotta be tac tical
posted by Namlit at 1:19 PM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]

Donald and Billy on the Bus by Lindy West [nyt]
posted by melissasaurus at 1:20 PM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]

After all they can always get some other douchebro billionaire to be in charge of a new Apprentice. I suspect Mark Cuban would be willing to take the job.

Ahnold already has dibs.
posted by Talez at 1:20 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Tic Tac is not usually a big political player, right? When you're getting disavowed by snack foods you know you've done something SERIOUSLY wrong.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 1:21 PM on October 8, 2016 [26 favorites]

Tic Tac is not usually a big political player, right? When you're getting disavowed by snack foods you know you've done something SERIOUSLY wrong.

First Skittles, now Tic Tacs? Who's next? Wonka Nerds?
posted by Talez at 1:22 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Yes because Ahnold is clearly a step up in the morality department...
posted by vuron at 1:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

New Trump business model! Companies will now pay him to not mention their products or services.
posted by cmfletcher at 1:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [24 favorites]

I predict the ratings for tomorrow night's debate are going to smash the record ratings of the first debate.

Anyone want to guess what lessons the media will take from this record-breaking viewership?
posted by indubitable at 1:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Well, it's taken me a while to get here today. And I'm just looking back at naive me from last week, chuckling at those collected Presidential quotes.

"I cannot tell a lie."
"Of the people, for the people, by the people."
"Ask not what your country can do for you."
"Check out sex tape." "Grab her by the pussy."

This is where we are in 2016. Wow. And it's only October 8th.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

OK, I am never going to catch up on this thread so I will share a thought that I hope hasn't been stated.

Trump finally has his excuse and lifeline for losing: the PC insider GOP. Before, his loss would have been chalked up to a rigged election and the crooked Clinton cabal. But now he can blame the the faithless, spineless party he embraced ... stabbed in the back. Not his fault, he had the biggest rallies, the most votes, the best polls .. until a few sniveling cowards in his own party caught the pc germ.

So if anything good comes of this whole sordid mess, maybe republicans turning on him will deflate the rigged election narrative.
posted by madamjujujive at 1:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [28 favorites]

“I did it, I was wrong and I apologize," Greg Stillson said of footage of him holding an infant in front of himself as a human shield that surfaced Friday.
And in closing, Stillson added ominously: "We will discuss this more in the coming days. See you at the debate on Sunday."


"Remind me not to get old.”

Doesn’t always work out. That survival instinct is a hell of a thing.
“Savor the fruit of life, my young friends. It has a sweet taste when it is fresh from the vine. But don't live too long. The taste turns bitter, after a time.”
posted by Smedleyman at 1:24 PM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]

Donald and Billy on the Bus by Lindy West

the essential bit: here is the thing, the big thing, that Paul D. Ryan and Reince Priebus and Mike Pence and all the spineless Billy Bushes of the world (and plenty of progressive men too, for that matter) don’t understand: Most of you are no better than Mr. Trump; you are just more subtle.

If you have spent your career brutalizing and dehumanizing women legislatively rather than personally, you are no better. If you were happy to overlook months of violent racism, xenophobia, transphobia and Islamophobia from the Trump campaign, but now you’re mad that he used a bad word and tried to sleep with another man’s wife, you are no better. If you have derided and stigmatized identity politics in an effort to keep the marginalized from organizing, you are no better. If you snicker or say nothing while your fellow men behave like Donald Trump, you are no better.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 1:28 PM on October 8, 2016 [66 favorites]

Companies will now pay him to not mention their products or services.

Didn't that actually happen with Abercrombie and Fitch and some guy from Jersey Shore?
posted by Coda Tronca at 1:28 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Yes because Ahnold is clearly a step up in the morality department...

TRUMP: Arnie. Baby. Don't do this.
SCHWARZENEGGER: Yoo facked ahp, Donuld!
TRUMP: You creep on girls too!
SCHWARZENEGGER: Not by de HOT MIC!

posted by Talez at 1:28 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

It would be a lot easier to replace him if he stepped down

Ugh. You can't replace someone on printed ballots, someone whom people have already voted for. That's not how voting works.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 1:28 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

I know Hillary can handle shaking his hand, that's not the point. The point is she shouldn't have to.

I think a joy buzzer has never been more called for.
posted by srboisvert at 1:29 PM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

We will prevail
posted by madamjujujive at 1:30 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

You guys the schadenfreude withdrawal is going to be HARSH come November 9th.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:30 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

Jonathan Martin on Twitter: "Senior House GOP official tells me: "THE DAM HAS BROKEN" - Rank-and-file firing at will - Leadership talking, will find consensus tonight"

Just published in the NY Times: Lewd Donald Trump Tape Is a Breaking Point for Many in the G.O.P.

On Saturday morning, after monitoring cable television coverage over a 12-hour period, Mr. Trump realized he was becoming isolated by his party. His children were described as jolted with concern, and uncertain about how to advise their father to go forward in a political landscape they do not entirely understand. The campaign itself had become an isolated bubble. Mr. Trump’s aides closed down contact even with party leaders.

They did not explicitly ask top advisers and allies outside the campaign to do their usual defense of Mr. Trump’s comments, according to one person briefed on the discussions, but they did ask people to stand strong by his side. So far, however, none of Mr. Trump’s most ferocious defenders — Newt Gingrich, Chris Christie and Rudy Giuliani — had spoken in support of him. ...

Your outro music, Mr. Trump.

I will hide and you will hide
And we shall hide together here
Underneath the bunkers in the night

I have water, I have rum
Wait for dawn and dawn shall come
Underneath the bunkers in the night
posted by maudlin at 1:31 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

I wonder if this can push McMullin over the 15% mark and Trump below it.
posted by corb at 1:33 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Who?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:35 PM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

Egg McMuffin.
posted by Talez at 1:36 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Egg McMuffin?
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:36 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Egg McMuffin, CHT. edit (haha)
posted by waitingtoderail at 1:36 PM on October 8, 2016

First Skittles, now Tic Tacs? Who's next? Wonka Nerds?

Already endorsed Lawrence Lessig.
posted by rokusan at 1:37 PM on October 8, 2016 [25 favorites]

Him?
posted by EarBucket at 1:37 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

I guess that's why they call it Metafilter...
posted by Talez at 1:39 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

He's gonna go full Samson and say the whole thing's rigged and people shouldn't bother voting. Take down the party and give himself an excuse for the huge defeat.
posted by chris24 at 1:39 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Inside the RNC meeting
posted by cmfletcher at 1:39 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

So what's this "all Mike Pence events removed from Donald Trump website" news here? The campaign website schedule for him just says check back for updates where his upcoming appearances should be.
posted by deludingmyself at 1:40 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Lindy West hit that op-ed out of the park!!!! I love living in a world in which Lindy West and Roxane Gay write for The Gray Lady.
posted by sallybrown at 1:40 PM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

So what's this "all Mike Pence events removed from Donald Trump website" news here? The campaign website schedule for him just says check back for updates where his upcoming appearances should be.

My guess is that while Pence is torn up about whether or not he should resign his co-candidacy, Trump is having a temper tantrum that Pence hasn't defended him and said this is completely normal and that Trump wants to dump him and name someone else.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:45 PM on October 8, 2016

I found the US Election 2016 mascot.

Clay County Sheriff’s Office says bald eagle is okay after getting stuck in the grille of an oncoming car

posted by zamboni at 1:46 PM on October 8, 2016 [47 favorites]

I found this on Pence's reaction, which is strange. How can Pence kick people out of a restaurant he doesn't own.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:47 PM on October 8, 2016

Scottie's also peddling the line that this was held onto until the Clinton emails got released, and is only being used as a distraction. Truly bunker mentality now.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 1:47 PM on October 8, 2016

On somewhat of an orthogonal note, MSNBC and CNN typically show random programming on Saturday afternoons and evenings. So their commercials are usually sandwiched between dateline variants and for CNN, similar content I can't currently recall. So now we've got all sorts of breaking news, lawmakers calling for their major party nominee to step down a month before the presidential election, and the commercials are so $19.99 COD not including shipping & handling, buy this Copper-plated underwear and get a second set of Copper-plated underwear free. It's just weird.
posted by cashman at 1:48 PM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

bald eagle is okay after getting stuck

What about his red-haired brother who got stuck in a locker room?
posted by Namlit at 1:48 PM on October 8, 2016

Schwarzenegger: As proud as I am to label myself a Republican, there is one label that I hold above all else - American.

You know it's bad when OTHER politicians elected after confessing to sexual assault are renouncing you.

After all they can always get some other douchebro billionaire to be in charge of a new Apprentice. I suspect Mark Cuban would be willing to take the job.

Ahnold already has dibs.

Der Gröpenfuhrer weighs in, eh?*

Nice.

In the link above, Trudeau is prescient. Der Gröpenfuhrer himself leads the investigation into his own alleged sexual assaults, so . . .
"Why on earth would any of your victims agree to talk to you?"
"Hello? I'm a big star -- they'll be thrilled!"
posted by Herodios at 1:50 PM on October 8, 2016

You guys the schadenfreude withdrawal is going to be HARSH come November 9th.

The biggest roller coaster ride will be over but the theme park never closes. Just because Trump loses doesn't mean that the people who think that his ideas on Muslims, immigration, law enforcement and war are GREAT are going away somewhere.
posted by delfin at 1:50 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

I really hope the Democrats can be relentless enough to corner the GOP on all the racist, sexist, evil garbage that WASN'T a dealbreaker. Not only should nobody be let off the hook for this dumpster fire, it would feed the idea that there was only one thing wrong with running an unstable, racist, Nazi-enabling, lying, narcissistic rapist.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:50 PM on October 8, 2016 [22 favorites]

Clearly McConnell intends to continue blocking appointments under Clinton because frankly obstruction has largely been a successful strategy for them.

I am hoping that the Democrats take the Senate so the current rule allowing for blocking SCOTUS nominees can go away.
posted by vuron at 1:51 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Pence's schedule on the Trump website was actually clear on Friday before the tape came out, so I don't think he's on strike. That's happened before: he's either been on emissary duty to the GOP, or held small private events with business leaders in various states.
posted by holgate at 1:54 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

I've been meaning to ask, does anyone know what the LD50 for schadenfreude is?
posted by Bringer Tom at 1:54 PM on October 8, 2016 [32 favorites]

holgate, that's what I was wondering, since I wasn't sure what his schedule looked like as of 24 hours ago.
posted by deludingmyself at 1:55 PM on October 8, 2016

Bringer Tom: 20 mg/kg, same as in town.
posted by Sublimity at 1:57 PM on October 8, 2016 [32 favorites]

Random question for Mitch McConnell: now that it's a foregone conclusion that the next president won't be the guy your party nominated, what about that whole Supreme Court thing you've sat on for 9 months?

If they think they can still keep the Senate after this election, I bet they'll try to wait it out indefinitely.
posted by indubitable at 1:57 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Clearly McConnell intends to continue blocking appointments under Clinton because frankly obstruction has largely been a successful strategy for them.

Obama has clearly been holding back on fighting the Senate's inaction. Avenues include filing a lawsuit as well as attempting to appoint a Justice without the Senate's explicit assent, which would then surely result in a lawsuit. I don't think the SCOTUS would take kindly to a Senate disallowing a replacement at their level indefinitely -- Roberts would know that it would weaken the SCOTUS for generations if they simply allowed nothing to happen.

I think Obama hasn't done these things because he didn't want to add unnecessary turbulence to the election. When (hopefully) President Clinton is faced with the same thing, expect a lot more wrangling.
posted by tclark at 1:57 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Serious question: how do we direct our efforts towards the Senate? Chuck Schumer may have put up a terrible slate, but if there's any year when a terrible slate can give us the 50+1 we need to break the filibuster and get us some Supreme Court Justices, it's 2016.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:59 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Surely I can't be the only person waiting to see if some of these clowns have pointy hoods, can I?

Based on the "Clown lives matter" type comments in certain spots over on Reddit, I wouldn't be surprised.

It's pretty tone deaf and insensitive, but given that there's been multiple public statements - at least one by an actual sheriff for grodd's sake - calling for the use of deadly force against people in public in clown attire I can forgive some dumb behavior in the face of legit anxiety on the part of people who rely on being dressed that way in public for their livelihoods.
posted by phearlez at 1:59 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

You guys the schadenfreude withdrawal is going to be HARSH come November 9th.

i'm hoping for IndyRef 2: rejoin EU boogaloo to pass the time
posted by poffin boffin at 2:00 PM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

Next month we will grab you where it hurts. By your ballots.
- Lindy West

But will their hearts and minds follow?
posted by TwoToneRow at 2:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Sassy Trump apologizes
posted by a lungful of dragon at 2:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

McCain's out, and mentions the Central Park Five comments too.
posted by acidic at 2:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [37 favorites]

how do we direct our efforts towards the Senate?

Sit back. Drink lemonade. Listen to jazz music and the crickets chirping as the Republican voters stay home. Oh, and send donations, phone bank, and all that jazz if you want to but at this point I think the Senate is pretty much going the way the Prez does.

The House is iffier, but "iffy" wasn't even on the radar day before yesterday.
posted by Bringer Tom at 2:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

And Pence is off to a private fundraiser at Miramar, the Newport, RI mansion originally owned by someone who went down with the Titanic.
posted by holgate at 2:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]

Bringer Tom I've been meaning to ask, does anyone know what the LD50 for schadenfreude is?

You shot 236 lbs of schadenfreude, but you can only carry 200 lbs back to the wagon.
posted by deludingmyself at 2:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [57 favorites]

I have managed to avoid the video until just a moment ago and, man, now I'm still processing it. What a horror show. If Billy Bush isn't toast by the end of next week, well...

All I saw before this was that 'apology' ---- wherein he was seething. He was so angry at having to attempt to pretend contrition. He so hated reciting those lines. No wonder he flew off the rails halfway through. What an epic fail that was.

And yet here I am, watching this slow motion car wreck, jaws agape.
posted by y2karl at 2:02 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Jon Ralston reports: Republican Governor of Nevada Brian Sandoval - "I cannot support him as my party's nominee"
posted by cashman at 2:02 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

I don't know if it's possible, but I could see Obama pushing a SCOTUS appointment post Election Day. Especially if it means the outgoing Senate will lose the majority, so they may take what he offers vs what Clinton does.
posted by mrzarquon at 2:03 PM on October 8, 2016

100% of perverts go back to their ways. Sadly, there is no cure -- Donald J. Trump [real]
posted by humanfont at 2:03 PM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]

You shot 236 lbs of schadenfreude, but you can only carry 200 lbs back to the wagon.

Well damn, the crows are going to be feeling awfully smug.
posted by Bringer Tom at 2:04 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

CNN just had live coverage as Trump came out of Trump tower for about 25 seconds, threw his hands up as a few dozen supporters (per cnn) chanted his name.

James Taylor comes to mind. Line em up. Line em all up.
posted by cashman at 2:05 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Alternative "Grabsdem Flag"
posted by chavenet at 2:05 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

McCain's out, and mentions the Central Park Five comments too.

"I still supported him when he said he liked people who weren't captured, and I still supported him last night, but now that enough other Republicans have unendorsed, I guess it's ok for me to do it too." [fake]

What a joke McCain is.
posted by zachlipton at 2:05 PM on October 8, 2016 [31 favorites]

I don't know if it's possible, but I could see Obama pushing a SCOTUS appointment post Election Day. Especially if it means the outgoing Senate will lose the majority, so they may take what he offers vs what Clinton does.

Not happening. If the Democrats take back the Senate, they'll kill the filibuster for SC judicial appointments and Hillary nominates young, centre-left lions to replace Scalia, Ginsburg, and Breyer (and possibly Kennedy or Thomas if they say "fuck it, I'm out"). If the Democrats take the House as well, the filibuster probably goes away entirely and Clinton gets as much done in two years as humanly possible. She's probably got multiple binders of planned legislation just waiting to go out on day one.
posted by mightygodking at 2:06 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Unless the Senate enters recess and McConnell purposely avoids that there is no opportunity for a recess appointment.

What I unclear on is whether there is a mandatory recess between this congress and the next one and if Obama is still president during that transition.

That could be fun times
posted by vuron at 2:07 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

McCain's out, and mentions the Central Park Five comments too.

Phoenix, AZ– John McCain issued the following statement today withdrawing his support of Donald Trump:

“In addition to my well known differences with Donald Trump on public policy issues, I have raised questions about his character after his comments on Prisoners of War, the Khan Gold Star family, Judge Curiel and earlier inappropriate comments about women. Just this week, he made outrageous statements about the innocent men in the Central Park Five case.

“As I said yesterday, there are no excuses for Donald Trump’s offensive and demeaning comments in the just released video; no woman should ever be victimized by this kind of inappropriate behavior. He alone bears the burden of his conduct and alone should suffer the consequences.

“I have wanted to support the candidate our party nominated. He was not my choice, but as a past nominee, I thought it important I respect the fact that Donald Trump won a majority of the delegates by the rules our party set. I thought I owed his supporters that deference.

“But Donald Trump’s behavior this week, concluding with the disclosure of his demeaning comments about women and his boasts about sexual assaults, make it impossible to continue to offer even conditional support for his candidacy. Cindy, with her strong background in human rights and respect for women fully agrees with me in this.

“Cindy and I will not vote for Donald Trump. I have never voted for a Democratic presidential candidate and we will not vote for Hillary Clinton. We will write in the name of some good conservative Republican who is qualified to be President.”

Finally. Sheesh.
posted by cashman at 2:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]

For "evangelicals" the only thing that matters is getting a conservative Supreme Court justice. They will never give up on Trump. This latest news will not bring him down.

Y'know...a misogynist shitstain like Trump surely has been involved in paying for (or, y'know, "insisting" on) an abortion at some time in his horrid life. I wonder how the evangelicals would feel about something like that? Or would they wave it away magically, chanting "It's in his past?"
posted by Thorzdad at 2:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

I imagine they'll rush to confirm whats-his-face before January if Dems win 50+1, no? I doubt Obama would retract his nomination (or if that's even possible?), but I would love it if he did and we could get a bad ass, lefty, forty year old feminist WOC in there.

That would be my schadenfreude fix for at least a few more months, in addition to making me genuinely happy.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:13 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

If someone comes across a list somewhere of all the people who have unendorsed or withdrawn support, please post it.
posted by cashman at 2:13 PM on October 8, 2016

McCain's out, and mentions the Central Park Five comments too.

So what do we think? 340 Clinton EVs? should we toss Iowa in there too for 346?
posted by dis_integration at 2:14 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Y'know...a misogynist shitstain like Trump surely has been involved in paying for (or, y'know, "insisting" on) an abortion at some time in his horrid life. I wonder how the evangelicals would feel about something like that? Or would they wave it away magically, chanting "It's in his past?"

He was a democrat back then.

He's actually been asked about this and declined to answer. I think I remember reading that he wanted Marla Maples to abort Tiffany and pressured her to do so. I have assumed this is not a thing the press has talked about because it would be incredibly hurtful to Tiffany that her father didn't want her and would be bringing something very private into the press, which feels a little icky.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:15 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

this footage from Trump's brief foray outside of Trump Tower just now is really something. Another view.
posted by acidic at 2:16 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

If someone comes across a list somewhere of all the people who have unendorsed or withdrawn support, please post it.

This Google spreadsheet is floating around Twitter, can't speak to its accuracy.
posted by sallybrown at 2:16 PM on October 8, 2016

schadenfrau, that would indeed be the sensible strategy if Congress is in session between the election and inauguration, but these assholes seem to have all the collective sense of crazy ants. It would be hilarious to get someone much more progressive on the court because the R's blocked Mr. Middle Ground so intransigently.
posted by Bringer Tom at 2:16 PM on October 8, 2016

If someone comes across a list somewhere of all the people who have unendorsed or withdrawn support, please post it.

This spreadsheet is one of the better such lists I've seen, and it appears to get regular updates.
posted by zachlipton at 2:16 PM on October 8, 2016

cashman: Link to google doc of unendorsements/withdrawn support.

(via edit window... damn, all ya'll are fast!)
posted by Freen at 2:16 PM on October 8, 2016

CNN are hammering Trump on everything he's ever said on Howard.
posted by Talez at 2:16 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

Andrew ProkopVerified account ‏@awprokop 5m5 minutes ago
McCain makes it 16 of 54 GOP senators who are not supporting Trump or have told him to drop out — nearly 1/3
posted by Devonian at 2:17 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

I wonder how the evangelicals would feel about something like that? Or would they wave it away magically, chanting "It's in his past?"

Some have already waved away this mess by saying "that's when he was a Democrat".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:17 PM on October 8, 2016

I doubt Obama would retract his nomination

He's already said he won't do this.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:17 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

this footage from Trump's brief foray outside of Trump Tower just now is really something. Another view.

You can see the Secret Service desperately trying to survey the situation thinking "holy fucking shit why did I come to work today?"
posted by Talez at 2:17 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

There are enough people willing to support Trump in person (which is how he measures his success) that he will not ever, ever drop out.
posted by acidic at 2:17 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Someone pointed out a very good point:

The women who know Trump best all stand with their hands over their crotch when he's near.
posted by Talez at 2:20 PM on October 8, 2016 [52 favorites]

TRUMP: You know what I regret about those comments?
RYAN: All of it?
TRUMP: I should've said you can grab 'em by the Paul Ryan. (click)

HILLARY: Paul fuckin' Ryan. Boy, did you shit the bed.
RYAN: I already condemned his comments.
HILLARY: Oh, well, I'll mail you a lollipop

HILLARY: You know, most pricks don't bother me these days, but you -- you really get under my skin. Mr. Concerned. Mr. Serious.
RYAN:

RYAN: If you're gonna lecture me about dignity--
HILLARY: You lost that already. Just calling to let you know: you're gonna lose the House.

posted by petebest at 2:20 PM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

Alert: our very own Egg is on MSNBC.
posted by sallybrown at 2:20 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

political 2016 in a nutshell, with luck
posted by chavenet at 2:20 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Link to google doc of unendorsements/withdrawn support.

Thank you sallybrown, Freen & zachlipton! (behold the field in which I grow my favorites. lay thine eyes upon it and see that it is barren)
posted by cashman at 2:20 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

My former Republican 73 year old mother shared this image on FB. That was a bit surreal this morning.
posted by threeturtles at 2:21 PM on October 8, 2016 [51 favorites]

Y'know...a misogynist shitstain like Trump surely has been involved in paying for, y'know, "insisting" on) an abortion at some time in his horrid life. I wonder how the evangelicals would feel about something like that? Or would they wave it away magically, chanting "It's in his past?"

The latter. Trump's own immorality is irrelevant as long as he promises to crack down on everyone else's moral choices. He is a useful tool for their ends, nothing more, nothing less.

See also: It's Okay If You're A Republican and The Only Moral Abortion Is My Abortion.
posted by delfin at 2:21 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Anti-Trump operative tells me 2 more big oppo hits coming. Says 1 is ~on par w/ 'p***y grab,' the other is worse. But no details. We'll see.
posted by Talez at 2:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [20 favorites]

Worse?
As in Cameron-fucks-the-pig worse?
How is there worse?
posted by chavenet at 2:24 PM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]

McCain is going to be live on CNN in a moment.
posted by cashman at 2:25 PM on October 8, 2016

Anti-Trump operative tells me 2 more big oppo hits coming. Says 1 is ~on par w/ 'p***y grab,' the other is worse. But no details. We'll see.

oh, goodness, I'm so full, I couldn't possibly ... well, maybe just a bit more, I wouldn't want it to go to waste
posted by Countess Elena at 2:25 PM on October 8, 2016 [165 favorites]

So what do we think? 340 Clinton EVs? should we toss Iowa in there too for 346?

Keep pushing like hell so it's a 374 maybe 380 landslide.
posted by Talez at 2:26 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

VP Debate Strategy brought to it's magnificent completion.

Tim Kaine: "He is asking everybody to vote for somebody that he cannot defend."

Mike Pence: "I do not condone his remarks and cannot defend them"

This, my friends, is what 11-dimensional chess looks like.
posted by Freen at 2:26 PM on October 8, 2016 [107 favorites]

How on earth has any media company that has ever filmed Trump for any reason NOT been digging through old tape since he's been the nominee?

Color me cynical/suspicious of the timing here. CNN et al. has made BIG money off Trump. The first debate had the highest TV ratings ever.

I suspect there are oodles (or several) more "bombshells" like this one that expose horrible, unexcusable behavior.

I.e. the cable TV networks (or the corporate and editorial decision makers) don't want him to win, for goodness sake, but they wanted to keep it as close as possible til October.
posted by mrgrimm at 2:26 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

McCain is going to be live on CNN in a moment.

McCain: "Winds forecast for 25mph east today, after months of a strong westerly breeze" [Fake-ish].
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:26 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

I'm gettin' all Mr. Creosote with the schadenfreude, here. I hope the next big oppo hit is waffer-theen.
posted by tclark at 2:27 PM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]

From the Slate Live Blog on Trump's Implosion:

You have to wonder, watching the Trump campaign unravel, how he didn't see this coming. He knows the things he has said and done—what did he think was going to happen when he faced the kind of scrutiny that comes along with running for president? Well, according to a New York Post item unearthed by Mediaite early this morning, Trump did know the risks before he ran: in a 1999 interview with Chris Matthews, then of CNBC, Trump reportedly said, “People want me to [run for president] all the time … I don’t like it." And why not, Mr. Trump? Because: “Can you imagine how controversial I’d be? You think about him [Clinton] and the women. How about me with the women? Can you imagine?” Now we can.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 2:27 PM on October 8, 2016 [23 favorites]

don't know, I hope that the nomination isn't withdrawn. Garland was willing to put himself through the ugly nomination process, I don't think we (ie, the left) should pull the rug out from under him just because it's convenient. It's not fair to him, and it sends a message to any potential Democratic nominees in the future.
posted by jcreigh at 2:21 PM on October 8 [4 favorites +] [!]

I agree, with the large caveat that I think this possibility may have been baked into the nomination from the beginning. I don't think Obama or Garland went into it with the expectation that he would be confirmed, and I think it's possible that Garland's nomination in particular was part of a sacrificial political calculus. If Garland went in with an understanding I wouldn't be surprised to see him withdraw his own name, but that seems unlikely.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:29 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

AlonzoMosleyFBI, I suspect Trump thought the R's had the media environment pretty well wrapped up compared to how it was in 1999. And that would have probably been true if not for some Internet thingy that was just getting its feet wet in 1999.
posted by Bringer Tom at 2:30 PM on October 8, 2016

I'm surprised to see UT listed as so strongly red on FiveThirtyEight. The Morman church came out against trump ages ago and UT politicians were among the first to jump ship on Friday. I thought I remembered reading articles about how despite their conservatism, Utah's support for Trump was pretty weak. What am I misremembreing, what did I get wrong, or what changed?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:30 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

I actually think it's more related to the fact that he was waiting for an optimally-weakened immune system within the R party to his style of demagoguery. But he didn't account for the fact that the same factors driving the party's implosion are deeply correlated to demographic shifts that have weakened the effectiveness of the R party's white supremacist underbelly in national elections.
posted by tclark at 2:33 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

I'm surprised to see UT listed as so strongly red on FiveThirtyEight.

I believe Egg is splitting the anti-Trump vote.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:35 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

I hope the really bad shit breaks like thirty minutes before the debate tomorrow.
America, ladies and gentlemen!
posted by angrycat at 2:35 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Then there is politics: The One Big Thing Paul Krugman Wants Trump And Clinton To Debate

Trump is despicable, and first of all a reality TV personality, but it is all distracting from the real issues.
posted by mumimor at 2:36 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

"the women"

i would be amused by his habit of othering people by calling him "the ______", if it weren't so sad and frustrating.

oh hell, i'll be amused anyway. i'm going to vote for not just "pussies against trump", but "the pussies against trump".
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 2:38 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

what changed? Trump dangled a Mike Lee appointment, maybe to the Supreme Court, so Lee isn't saying anything, but Utah has some decorum at the upper echelons, there are some smart players here, even if the game is rigged. There is some discontent among women about their second class status in Utah, so having the powers that be continue to endorse a dedicated abuser of women is a last straw. They have to take the higher road, or else the populace might just get a mind of its own, and see they aren't well served by the local political machine, which is notoriously deaf.
posted by Oyéah at 2:38 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

mumimor: "Trump is despicable, and first of all a reality TV personality, but it is all distracting from the real issues."

LOL.
posted by chavenet at 2:38 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Misogyny and rape culture ARE REAL ISSUES.

Not that there aren't others. But you can't handwave this sort of shit away because of other stuff being important, too.
posted by stolyarova at 2:39 PM on October 8, 2016 [100 favorites]

it is all distracting from the real issues

no, actually, a presidential candidate's routine abusive misogyny is a real issue
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 2:39 PM on October 8, 2016 [77 favorites]

Ari Melber on MSNBC: "...this is horrible, but is it more horrible than advocating a national policy of religious discrimination, something that no nominee has advocated in the modern era... is it more horrible when he said to people at his rally that you can beat someone up and he'll pay their legal bills..."
posted by tonycpsu at 2:39 PM on October 8, 2016 [23 favorites]

How is there worse?

I can think of far worse. There is no limit with this guy. Think of the things he said about his own daughter when she was a minor.
posted by sallybrown at 2:39 PM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]

Mama Grizzly is still right-wingin' and bitter-clingin' to Trump. (Facebook post.)
posted by dhens at 2:40 PM on October 8, 2016

Trump dangled a Mike Lee appointment, maybe to the Supreme Court, so Lee isn't saying anything

Mike Lee is actually one of the people calling for Trump to step down as the nominee.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 2:40 PM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

I can think of far worse, of course, but the issue is what could there be on tape that is worse?
posted by Justinian at 2:40 PM on October 8, 2016

In Utah, there's a huge difference between 538's projections for Trump (50% of the vote) and the latest 4-way polls of Utah (34% plurality for Trump, 25% for Clinton; scroll down the page). But either way, Trump wins.
posted by Banknote of the year at 2:41 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

what could there be on tape that is worse?

CHECK OUT SEX TAPE? Like, a real one?
posted by stolyarova at 2:41 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

He owns hotels, and he thinks this way, you have to suppose there are some discernible links to trafficking. The big hotel in the Middle East, you have to know he knows what goes on in his place.
posted by Oyéah at 2:42 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

Not sure anyone would know this, but were any of the depositions in his divorce cases recorded on video? Depositions often are.
posted by sallybrown at 2:42 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

what could there be on tape that is worse?

N-word?
posted by longtime_lurker at 2:43 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

A Trump sex tape?

haven't we suffered enough
posted by yasaman at 2:43 PM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]

You know - you know he has a sex tape. And that he bragged about it and made everyone copies.

The petebest Times regrets the terror.
posted by petebest at 2:43 PM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]

Sex tape. Non-consensual.
posted by Celsius1414 at 2:44 PM on October 8, 2016

ugh it's going to be some Patrick Bateman staring-at-himself-in-the-mirror shit, isn't it?
posted by stolyarova at 2:44 PM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]

Yucktober Blerghprise
posted by tonycpsu at 2:45 PM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]

My bet is striking a subbordinate.
posted by cmfletcher at 2:46 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

I really hope to see the down ticket Democrats running ads of their opponents with their support of Trump timeline:

Everything terrible he's said up to their endorsement.
Their endorsement.
All the terrible things he says after their endorsement.
This specific thing.
Their change of endorsement.
"They ignored the warning signs until it was too late. How well do you think they'll act in your interest?" (cut to montage of global warming, etc)

They could literally do this for almost every Republican right now.
posted by mrzarquon at 2:46 PM on October 8, 2016 [56 favorites]

I think he is simultaneously too vain and too consumed with hatred for his own failing, imperfect body that there is little chance that he recorded himself having sex.

I think there is a non-trivial chance he recorded himself sexually degrading women in the Requiem For A Dream sense.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:46 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

If you don't want to get old, you have an alternative, but I don't recommend it. I'm old. Old enough to join AARP, months away from being able to start collecting Social Security at the early start reduced rate. I have white hair and a grandbaby.

I am less likely than an awful lot of people to have pre-conceived ideas. I battle racism, and a host of other -isms. I support Hillary Clinton, despise Donald Trump, etc. I am discriminated against at work on the basis of my age and gender. I am discriminated against in the job market because of my age and gender.

I'm pretty sure you had no intention of being a bigot. How can we help you grasp what that attitude means and how it perpetuates false beliefs and ugly behaviors about/against people who are not young?
posted by theora55 at 2:46 PM on October 8, 2016 [46 favorites]

Requiem For A Dream sense

I haven't seen the movie - what does this mean?
posted by stolyarova at 2:47 PM on October 8, 2016

@jbouie: If not for that tape, Republican leaders were prepared to put a white nationalist in the Oval Office just so they could cut taxes.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:47 PM on October 8, 2016 [118 favorites]

Poppy Harlow is blowing this Trump supporter out of the water. She's pissed he tried to bring $10m from Saudi Arabia up as some sort of excuse.
posted by Talez at 2:48 PM on October 8, 2016

Worse:

A current mistress whom he is currently pressuring to get an abortion.
A police report of rape filed by Ivana way back when.
Current donations being funnelled to democratic candidates. (ok, maybe not worse, but pretty cynical).
A conversation in which he assures someone he will do X, Y, Z thing beneficial to Trump industries
A tape f him saying he will do nothing and the VP will run the show.
More/worse wierd sex comments about Ivanka.
Weird sex comments about Tiffany, from when she was a minor.
Sex advice given to Donald Jr.
In bed (figuratively) with Saudi Arabia or China.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:49 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

He walked out of Trump Tower and only heard the cheers, not the boos. He actually thinks he'll survive this.
posted by humanfont at 2:49 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Here you go America
posted by melissasaurus at 2:51 PM on October 8, 2016 [19 favorites]

Misogyny and rape culture ARE REAL ISSUES.

Not that there aren't others. But you can't handwave this sort of shit away because of other stuff being important, too.

Sorry, this thread is endless, and I can understand if people haven't seen my comments above. I'm the last person to handwave anything here.

I do think that it is strange that this particular video is what brings Trump down - given the blatant racism, misogyny, fascism and pandering to the people who are raping our world. As stated above, I saw from day one that Trump is an abuser and a fraud, and I find it hard to understand that the Republican party and the punditry only found out about this just now. What I think is that they all knew all along, and that they only now have to address it. Meanwhile, he was a cover for their intent to defraud the American people and the rest of the world.
posted by mumimor at 2:51 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

He manages to offend white men without college degrees.

A recording of him saying he hates beer and football?
posted by stolyarova at 2:52 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

The only worse things would, alas, have to be in his own voice and of a grotesque sexual nature. I would guess something about his daughters or some other underage girls. Or some kind of sex trafficking.
posted by argybarg at 2:52 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

I am going to buy popcorn for tomorrow, have to have it. This will be monumental. Right now I wonder who is going to debate for the Republican side?
posted by Oyéah at 2:52 PM on October 8, 2016

what could there be on tape that is worse?

N-word?

Judging by how his past grossly racist statements failed to torpedo him, I am really afraid it's not just this, but this used against someone like our President. Which...this is a bad idea to even think about because I'm getting so angry, even though this is effectively what the birther movement was.
posted by sallybrown at 2:52 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

I agree completely, mumimor. The Rs knew exactly what kind of horse they brought to the race.
posted by stolyarova at 2:52 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

What could be worse?

He manages to offend white men without college degrees.

All the uneducated hicks in the United States are S.O.B.s
posted by Talez at 2:53 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

stolyarova: e.g., likely trafficked women forced to perform in a sexually degrading way at a party
posted by schadenfrau at 2:53 PM on October 8, 2016

Condi Rice breaks her silence: "Enough! Donald Trump should not be President."
posted by stolyarova at 2:55 PM on October 8, 2016 [27 favorites]

What could be worse?

Honestly, my guess is Nazi fetish.
posted by mrgrimm at 2:55 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

at a party, oh yeah, some peek into a room, to show what he offers his high rollers.
posted by Oyéah at 2:56 PM on October 8, 2016

Oh Trafficking! I think given his involvement in modelling and such, this is where I'd put my money. He brought women into the country illegally, to do things they did not know they were going to be doing, and then sexually assaulted one of more of them while here.

That's totally a thing it seems like he would do, and it would definitely be worse.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:56 PM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

Maybe Trump will end up seeking asylum in the Ecuadorian embassy.
posted by gwint at 2:57 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Holy shit the Trump shit on CNN is actually dragging Huma into the debate with conspiracy bullshit.
posted by Talez at 2:57 PM on October 8, 2016

Or some kind of sex trafficking.

See this Daily Kos investigation into trafficking in his modeling agency.
posted by sallybrown at 2:57 PM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

What could be worse?

Best guess is some sort of undeniable recording of him referring to his supporters as rubes or worse.
posted by Mooski at 2:57 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Dammit I got more favorites for like five minutes and then they were all gone.
posted by corb at 2:57 PM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]

The book about Jeffrey Epstein hits the bookshops on Monday, no? Trump hasn't used any of the Epstein allegations against Bill Clinton because Trump participated too.
posted by saucysault at 2:58 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

The comments under that Condi post are incredible.
posted by waitingtoderail at 2:58 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

For "evangelicals" the only thing that matters is getting a conservative Supreme Court justice. They will never give up on Trump. This latest news will not bring him down.

Not to defend right wing evangelicals too hard or anything, but there are plenty of self-professed liberals in this very thread who are fine with electing fracking lobbyists to the Senate as long as it gets them the majority needed to approve Supreme Court justices. They have a goal and they're sticking to it.
posted by indubitable at 2:59 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

Best guess is some sort of undeniable recording of him referring to his supporters as rubes or worse.

He's Lonesome Rhodes and this is the end of A Face In The Crowd, then? I'll roll with that. I called it in March!
posted by stolyarova at 2:59 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

All Mike Pence events have been removed from the Trump website.
posted by mightygodking at 3:00 PM on October 8, 2016 [26 favorites]

Reading these mega threads and really appreciating all the comments and links. Have to chime and say that I feel bad for Tic Tacs--I have always loved them since they are one of the few remaining minty products that still use sugar as an ingredient.
posted by nikitabot at 3:00 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

The comments under that Condi post are incredible.

Those are the 27%. #Deplorables
posted by zakur at 3:00 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

Holy shit the Trump shit on CNN is actually dragging Huma into the debate with conspiracy bullshit.

r/the_donald finally caught up to the tape story and this is the shit they're going with. Hilary stuck by Huma so Anthony Wiener makes her the same as Trump, Hilary led the witch hunt for Bill's accusers, Bill is a rapist too, etc. There's a direct pipeline from the feverswamp to actual Trump surrogates on national TV.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

> See this Daily Kos investigation into trafficking in his modeling agency.

Well fuck, I hope this gets more attention now with this latest news cycle.

As I shared with a friend this morning, I hope this changes the definition "To Trump" - now meaning to crater so horribly it is to scorch the earth of any value associated with said person, out of pure hubris and arrogance.
posted by mrzarquon at 3:01 PM on October 8, 2016

what could there be on tape that is worse?

tbh i assume it is some kind of material evidence in the rape case, a tape or DNA or something pretty fucking conclusive.

i hope melania has the world's top legal minds looking over her prenup right now
posted by poffin boffin at 3:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

As I said in the comments there, that dKos diary linked by sallybrown is some of the best independent long-form journalism I've seen in a long time.
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:02 PM on October 8, 2016

Dammit I got more favorites for like five minutes and then they were all gone.

I think it's a rolling 24-hour limit so your eligibility to add favorites is recalculated continuously as old favorites fall out of the daily window. (? -- I'm a favorites miser and so I've never hit this purported limit....)
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:02 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

All Mike Pence events have been removed from the Trump website.

Already debunked.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:02 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Oh and my personal favorite, the left loves sexual depravity when it's LGBT, so why are they upset about Trump's sexual misconduct. Waiting for that one to make it out of Pierson's mouth later today.

*- should've made this one comment, didn't want to add content with edit function
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:02 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

also man is this gonna be tomorrow's debate thread too? i hope not
posted by poffin boffin at 3:02 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

That time he tried to expose himself to Gloria Allred to make a point about why a transgendered woman shouldn't be allowed to participate in Miss Universe.
posted by humanfont at 3:03 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

ICKY TRUMP

They're selling those on the White Stripes website. T-shirts at least.
posted by waitingtoderail at 3:04 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Russian Ambassador’s Defense of Trump Speaks Volumes About Interference in U.S. Election
posted by homunculus at 3:05 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

This is my chance to say I fucking called it
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:06 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

Time for Republicans and anyone else who doesn't want Clinton elected to get behind Johnson/Weld. We're your only hope.

(related: Libertarians watching the news today)
posted by Jacqueline at 3:06 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

I feel kind of dirty playing the "what next" game, but my bet is drugs. Something actionable regarding his former helicopter pilot/drug supplier for his high rollers.
posted by instamatic at 3:07 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

"And what is 'time'?" Gary Johnson
posted by sallybrown at 3:08 PM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]

The GOP was in in its death spiral the minute they ignored every lesson they came up with in the post-mortems after the Romney campaign and decided what they really wanted was a racist, sexist, rapist, multiple-bankruptcy-declaring, Kraft-macaroni-looking failure with very sketchy ideas about his own daughter as the face of their national party.

Sadly, convervatism can never fail, it can only be failed. The no-true-Scotsman defenses will come fast and furious come November. They'll shove this down the memory hole as soon as possible.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 3:08 PM on October 8, 2016 [31 favorites]

Republican Leaders Still Plan to Vote for a Man Who Bragged About Sexually Assaulting Women
posted by mrgrimm at 3:08 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Kellyanne Conway hasn't tweeted for thirty six hours. She's never gone without tweeting for that long.
posted by Talez at 3:08 PM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

Man, I have to say I'm loving Nica-born Ana Navarro right now (@ananavarro) who is tearing it up.
posted by corb at 3:09 PM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

(related: Libertarians watching the news today)

Huh? Why is this (presumably) libertarian child looking on nonchalantly as taxpayer funds are illicitly used by government firefighting units to extinguish a housefire? WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:09 PM on October 8, 2016 [31 favorites]

I have never voted for a Democratic presidential candidate and we will not vote for Hillary Clinton. We will write in the name of some good conservative Republican who is qualified to be President.”

And who the fuck would that be? Every one of those who attempted to get the nomination were also deplorable and proud of it. McCain had Sarah Palin for a running mate for fuck's sake.

You have to wonder, watching the Trump campaign unravel, how he didn't see this coming.

Not really. All the other deplorable bullshit he's been saying and peddling has done little to nothing in terms of consequences and just made very public what the Republican party has been peddling for years. It's great that this is something that finally appears to be having consequences (though I'll only believe it once the election results are final), if the Republicans condemning him for this and nothing else get away with using this to continue their vile, hateful rhetoric and policies this will not nearly have the affect it deserves. I don't believe the Republicans will even address rape culture outside of condemning Trump for it either.
posted by juiceCake at 3:10 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Not to defend right wing evangelicals too hard or anything, but there are plenty of self-professed liberals in this very thread who are fine with electing fracking lobbyists to the Senate as long as it gets them the majority needed to approve Supreme Court justices. They have a goal and they're sticking to it.
posted by indubitable at 2:59 PM on October 8 [+] [!]

You seem to be simultaneously drawing an equivalence between women protecting their fundamental rights to their own bodies and some people's desire to take away those fundamental rights and between lobbying for fracking and admitting to sexual assault on national television.

Those are monstrous comparisons.
posted by schadenfrau at 3:10 PM on October 8, 2016 [50 favorites]

Time for Republicans and anyone else who doesn't want Clinton elected to get behind Johnson/Weld.

And what is a jon sin welled?
posted by zakur at 3:10 PM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

"And what is 'time'?" Gary Johnson

More like, and where is Aleppo?
posted by chavenet at 3:10 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Conway has been in Trump Tower for the past two days, presumably doing her job.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:11 PM on October 8, 2016

For folks who need a mind cleanse after the trump video, may I suggest Pant Suit Power?

This is what makes me hopeful for progressivism - diversity and tolerance always has more potential than isolationism and fear.
posted by mrzarquon at 3:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [24 favorites]

What time is Aleppo?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Huh? Why is this (presumably) libertarian child looking on nonchalantly as taxpayer money is illicitly used by government firefighting units to extinguish a housefire? WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE

Who says those have to be government firefighters? Where I live, we have a volunteer fire department that does its own fundraising.
posted by Jacqueline at 3:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

What time is Aleppo?

Half past Merkel!
posted by chavenet at 3:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

‏@guygavrielkay: The 'Pence is inconsolable’ report is a contemptible distance-shaping, sympathy hunt. He KNEW what Trump is, played denial game in debate.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:13 PM on October 8, 2016 [62 favorites]

diversity and tolerance always has more potential than isolationism and fear.

It's just way more fun.
posted by Miko at 3:13 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

mrzarquon, a few hours ago, I had to nope out of this thread. I watched the pant suit flash mob and sobbed for a few minutes. Then I tapped back in.
posted by instamatic at 3:14 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

In this momentary lull, I will just note that if I ever meet David Fahrentholt, I will get down on one knee and propose to him.
posted by sallybrown at 3:15 PM on October 8, 2016 [23 favorites]

corb: Dammit I got more favorites for like five minutes and then they were all gone.

I thought for a minute you were complaining about favorites that had been given to you instead of favorites to hand out and was astonished at the change from humble-yet-scrappy corb to queen-of-the-universe corb.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:16 PM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

Fahrentholt is he the guy who released the tape? He should be up for next years Nobel Peace Prize.
posted by Oyéah at 3:16 PM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

Remember when Mark Cuban was enough to psych Trump in the debate? This time Hillary should fill one seat with Skittles, one with Tic Tacs and the rest with adorable kittens staring him down.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 3:17 PM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]

> @LindseyGrahamSC: "Name one sports team, university, publicly-held company, etc. that would accept a person like this as their standard bearer?"

Penn State.
posted by at by at 3:17 PM on October 8, 2016 [27 favorites]

Guy Gavriel Kay is hands-down my favorite author, and I was a little nervous when I first looked up his Twitter, because you never know how authors you love will turn out to be in the real world. As it turns out, he's built up a world view that seems to make sense for a man who does his research, and it makes me so happy.

I love that his political tweets today have been mixed up with his discussion of Moby Dick. It's so perfect.
posted by Sequence at 3:18 PM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

Fahrentholt's got the Pulitzer sewn up, at least.
posted by vibrotronica at 3:18 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

Fahrentholt is he the guy who released the tape? He should be up for next years Nobel Peace Prize.

He's the guy who published the tape. He's also the guy who has dug up literally everything that is known about the Trump Foundation and Trump's non-donations to charity.
posted by Francis at 3:19 PM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]

Man, some of my FAcebook friends are on fire today. Another quote:

"The Republican party has gone from being the Party of Lincoln to being the Party of Neville Chamberlain."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:19 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

I'm back, baby. I'll be canvassing for Hillary tomorrow morning. Hope this tape throws shade on Marco Rubio, too, because all these chumps have been working against women's rights for so long, it's time for us to clap back.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 3:20 PM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]

At the risk of tempting the wrath of the whatever from high atop the thing:

I really hope that when Trump makes his concession call late on Nov. 8, Clinton refuses to take it.

(I doubt Trump will make the traditional concession call, but a person can dream.)
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 3:20 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

@robwhisman: it's sad how seriously we're taking stuff trump said 11 years ago. also a bunch of dead dudes said i could bring my shotgun into this kroger

And this article x a billion:

Mr. Trump is rape culture’s blathering id, and Sunday night Hillary Clinton (who, no doubt, has just as many man-made scars as the rest of us) has to stand next to him on a stage, and remain unflappable as she’s held to an astronomically higher standard, and pretend that he is her equal while his followers persist in howling that sexism is a feminist myth. While Mr. Trump boasts about sexual assault and vows to suppress disobedient media, cable news pundits spend their time taking a protractor to Mrs. Clinton’s smile — a constant, churning, microanalysis of nothing.
posted by NorthernLite at 3:21 PM on October 8, 2016 [56 favorites]

Fahrenthold

Make sure his name is spelled right on the Pulitzer.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:21 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

> • Deny innocence of Central Park Five

In case anyone missed it: Trump Will Never Put Himself in Your Shoes. Period. Even if you were wrongfully convicted and exonerated by DNA evidence.
posted by homunculus at 3:21 PM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]

Update on the giant Trump sign (from my earlier comment) - it's gone! The posts are still there, so someone probably stole it. Yay.

EmpressCallipygos, you were totally right :)
posted by insectosaurus at 3:22 PM on October 8, 2016 [20 favorites]

Appearing in 19 states this weekend
posted by Jacqueline at 3:22 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

oh my gosh nineteen whole states those Libertarians sure are adorable
posted by mightygodking at 3:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

Fahrenthold is he the guy who released the tape? He should be up for next years Nobel Peace Prize.
posted by Oyéah at 3:24 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'm now on a mission to run out of favourites. I once hit the Facebook like limit when trying to each it about Rugby League.
posted by vbfg at 3:25 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Instead of tic tacs for the debate, Hillary really needs to find herself a cat brooch
posted by saucysault at 3:25 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

In case the #Trumptape has purged your memories of the last two weeks don't forget:
-Machado/Miss Universe
-Trump Charity has been shut down for fraud pending audits.
-Trump violated the embargo on Cuba
-Central Park 5
-PTSD Vets are weak
-Child rape lawsuit refiled and allowed to proceed
-All the sexual harassment on the The Apprentice
-Trump claims Mexican criminals are being given citizenship on the fast track to vote for Clinton.
-Hurricane Matthew is a democratic conspiracy.
posted by humanfont at 3:26 PM on October 8, 2016 [46 favorites]

It would be pretty awesome if he ran again, next time. I think he should just keep running every four years.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 3:27 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Bill Pruitt on Twitter: As a producer on seasons 1 & 2 of #theapprentice I assure you: when it comes to the #trumptapes there are far worse. #justthebegininng

Paging Omarosa. Paging Omarosa.
posted by sallybrown at 3:27 PM on October 8, 2016 [57 favorites]

Libertarians watching the news today

Yeah, but your candidate is still a moron who can't name a single foreign leader and has no idea what Aleppo is and doesn't think that's a problem because isolationism. Johnson is just as shockingly unqualified as Trump, but for different reasons. (Watching Gary Johnson try to answer any foreign policy questions)
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 3:28 PM on October 8, 2016 [34 favorites]

Who says those have to be government firefighters? Where I live, we have a volunteer fire department that does its own fundraising

A subject I know something about, being close friends with a whole extended family of volunteer firefighters in a rural southern community: MOST of that "fundraising" is filing applications in pursuit of state and federal grants for equipment and training. "Volunteer" fire departments are deeply publicly subsidized in every way but paying salaries. You don't pay for modern hazmat gear and S&R training with an annual barbecue.

So not really any sort of example of a mythological libertarian principle. Without federal money you'd have volunteer firefighters showing up in pickup trucks.
posted by spitbull at 3:28 PM on October 8, 2016 [123 favorites]

oh my gosh nineteen whole states those Libertarians sure are adorable

"Adorable" sure is an interesting way of spelling "fiscally sensible." We don't have a lot of money and we want to help take that fucker down so we've got to spend it where we believe it will have the greatest impact on the outcome.
posted by Jacqueline at 3:29 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

mightygodking: All Mike Pence events have been removed from the Trump website.

Actually nothing was removed. Via the Wayback machine, as of Friday morning, only 2 Friday events were listed, nothing beyond that. As of this morning, both of those were gone, as you would expect. Possibly it is significant that nothing new has been added. But as of Saturday Oct. 1, there were only two Pence events listed. His events don't seem to be posted as far in advance as Trumps and there are not as many of them.
posted by beagle at 3:31 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

I almost (*almost*) feel sorry for Melania. They're shoving her out there to tell people to still vote for her creep of a husband. I mean, I get the feeling that all she ever wanted was to lay around on a yacht eating caviar for every meal and giving the occasional handy, and now she's being forced to play the apologist for a 70-year-old groper.

Then again, she did choose him, so, yeah. Feeling of sympathy fading.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 3:32 PM on October 8, 2016 [20 favorites]

Speaking of which, what do you think is going through the mind of Kellyann Conway right now?

Kellyanne and the Steves right now
posted by ckape at 3:32 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

The Mercer family, GOP mega-donors, stand by Trump and describe the video as "locker room braggadocio." (twitter)

Rebekah Mercer is a very close friend of Kellyanne Conway. I wonder if the trade-off was "the money stays as long as you listen to Ms. Conway"?
posted by sallybrown at 3:33 PM on October 8, 2016

I saw Kellyann and the Steves at Summerfest '89
posted by Countess Elena at 3:33 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

Honestly, with Johnson, I'm more worried about his policies of dismantling the FDA and DoEd, since I could see a Republican House aiding and abetting that effort.

I like having educated citizens and clean food.
posted by Archelaus at 3:33 PM on October 8, 2016 [39 favorites]

Clinton has generally been polling better in two-way polls rather than four-way ones, so I think constantly talking up Johnson could really be helping Trump get elected.
posted by peacheater at 3:34 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

Great point from Benjy Sarlin on twitter: Trump's comments on women were literally his first GOP primary debate question. He was chosen with eyes wide open.
posted by sallybrown at 3:35 PM on October 8, 2016 [20 favorites]

I realize that all y'all are not going to agree with the Johnson/Weld ticket on a lot of things but I think we can all agree that Republicans voting for Johnson/Weld is a big improvement over Republicans voting for Trump, no?

We Libertarians want to take Trump down almost as much as the Democrats do. We want the Republican Party to die so we can take its place.
posted by Jacqueline at 3:37 PM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]

Who says those have to be government firefighters? Where I live, we have a volunteer fire department that does its own fundraising.

it's nice that your community is able to raise funds for this but whether or not one dies in a fire should not depend on their personal wealth.
posted by poffin boffin at 3:38 PM on October 8, 2016 [104 favorites]

"locker room braggadocio."

If I spent much time in a locker room I'd be calling this out so hard. So the next Clinton ad I really hope to see is an army of well-known athletes, male and female, in their locker rooms saying with voice and body that there is no appropriate place for that kind of talk.
posted by Miko at 3:38 PM on October 8, 2016 [29 favorites]

We don't have a lot of money and we want to help take that fucker down so we've got to spend it where we believe it will have the greatest impact on the outcome.

I must say that's a very roundabout way to get money to the Clinton campaign, then. (Assuming you meant the ACTUAL best way to take down Trump.)(
posted by dhens at 3:39 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

As someone who feels federal government oversight and regulation is a great thing that keeps our food, environment, markets, and lives in general safer and better, I don't find anything positive about people voting a libertarian ticket.
posted by sallybrown at 3:39 PM on October 8, 2016 [71 favorites]

I suppose I'll allow that Rs voting J/W is still better than Rs voting Trump, and I won't exactly cry a river if they split the vote out that way, but I'd vastly prefer if we move the ol' Overton window in a -more- acceptable direction, and I honestly see the Libertarian party's usual line as a -less- acceptable one over rank and file Republicans who are -not- Trump.
posted by Archelaus at 3:39 PM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

>I'm surprised to see UT listed as so strongly red on FiveThirtyEight. The Morman church came out against trump ages ago and UT politicians were among the first to jump ship on Friday. I thought I remembered reading articles about how despite their conservatism, Utah's support for Trump was pretty weak. What am I misremembreing, what did I get wrong, or what changed?

First off, I'm pretty sure the LDS Church hasn't taken an official position on Trump--they never do on political candidates. Rather the chatter here and elsewhere has been that many, many individual Mormons are very uncomfortable with Trump. When I talked to my own Utah-area relatives this summer, when anyone happened to mention Trump there was a literal flood of anger in the room. Nobody would admit to voting for him. This among a group that was probably 95-100% for Romney in 2012 and generally 90% or higher Republican voters.

(FYI nobody would cop to supporting Hillary either--they were all looking for alternatives and didn't like any of Clinton, Trump, Johnson, or Stein. Thus the potential appeal of McMullin to this type of voter.)

So, the the sea-change in Utah is indeed huge this year--but to understand it you have to understand where the state is coming from.

Davis County, a suburban-ish county just north of Salt Lake City where I grew up, was once identified as the most Republican county in the U.S. Not sure if it's true any more, but it's in the running for certain. One of the first political happenings I can remember is when they sent Dan Quayle to Davis County after he stuck his foot in his mouth one time, because they were certain Quayle would get a positive reception in Davis County, no matter what . . .

In 2012, 538's forecast for UT was 100% Romney & the actual general election vote was 73% Romney to 25% Obama.

So that's a baseline of like +48% R.

This year, there have been a couple of polls showing Hillary up by 1-2% and a few more showing Trump & Clinton in a dead heat. Clinton winning Utah is unlikely to be the final result, but there probably hasn't even been a SINGLE poll showing the Democratic Presidential candidate up in Utah in, I don't know, maybe 50 years?

So just the fact that the race is close enough to produce a couple of outlier polls showing Clinton up is already major news, and a major change.

Right now, 538 has Utah at 51% Trump, 36% Clinton. So +15% R.

That is a gain of 33% for Dems in Utah for 2016 vs 2012--and with recent developments, the race is pretty likely to tighten some more.

A swing of 30-40% in a state from one presidential election to the next is really huge change--whether or not it actually results in a swing from one party to another.

We'll see whether the end result is long-range change in the balance of parties in Utah, though. I think it would be very good for the state to have more of a balance between the two parties rather than being essentially a one-party state. But I don't have very high hopes for long-lasting change.

TL;DR: Dems were down 48% in 2012 in Utah, now they're down maybe 5-15%. So--a huge swing in just 4 years, even though it's all within the Red half of the field.
posted by flug at 3:40 PM on October 8, 2016 [17 favorites]

I don't find anything positive about people voting a libertarian ticket.

i mean there is some minimal entertainment value but not in a hellmouth year like this
posted by poffin boffin at 3:40 PM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]

I realize that all y'all are not going to agree with the Johnson/Weld ticket on a lot of things but I think we can all agree that Republicans voting for Johnson/Weld is a big improvement over Republicans voting for Trump, no?

Honestly I would rather that they were just sufficiently despondent not to show up at all than that they hold their nose and vote for y'all.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:41 PM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]

The only things I've heard in the locker room are two guys discussing how much shaving is a pain in the ass and the sound of an old guy blow drying his junk.
posted by schoolgirl report at 3:41 PM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]

Bill Pruitt on Twitter: As a producer on seasons 1 & 2 of #theapprentice I assure you: when it comes to the #trumptapes there are far worse. #justthebegininng

Paging Omarosa. Paging Omarosa.

So awesome of him to release it earlier! oh wait...
posted by dhens at 3:42 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

it's nice that your community is able to raise funds for this but whether or not one dies in a fire should not depend on their personal wealth.

75% of firefighters in the US are volunteers. Pretty much anywhere outside of a major metro area is at least partially served by volunteers.
posted by COD at 3:42 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

I realize that all y'all are not going to agree with the Johnson/Weld ticket on a lot of things but I think we can all agree that Republicans voting for Johnson/Weld is a big improvement over Republicans voting for Trump, no?

Your larger point, that Johnson and Weld are better human beings than Trump, and perhaps less likely to lead us into nuclear war with Russia and mass deportations is well-taken, but Republicans voting for Johnson/Weld could lead to a Johnson/Weld Presidency, which would be quite dreadful, while Republicans voting for Trump looks like it's going to lead to a Hillary Clinton Presidency, which is likely to be pretty freakin' sweet.
posted by tonycpsu at 3:42 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

Mod note: Enough on the libertarian derail, Johnson not knowing Aleppo is old news and there is enough new news happening in this thread to require all mod attention. No argument retreads.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 3:42 PM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]

So I was nosing around 538 and found my way to the "Updates" link on the sidebar of the presidential forecast page. This is a helpful reminder that the stats that have Trump completely tanking in the polls are from midweek.
posted by Sublimity at 3:44 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

Sunday night Hillary Clinton (who, no doubt, has just as many man-made scars as the rest of us) has to stand next to him on a stage

I think she should use the word "grab" as frequently as possible. As in, "You can't just reach out and grab the presidency because you're a rich man. You have to earn the trust of American voters."

See if he flinches, waiting for the words after grab.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 3:45 PM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]

Hil-A-Ree
(Get some rest, soon to be my Madame President.)
posted by angrycat at 3:45 PM on October 8, 2016

Trump is retweeting stuff about Bill Clinton being a rapist and Hillary defending him now. The town hall is going to be a dumpster fire of epic proportions.

(sees mod note. sowwy :( )
posted by Justinian at 3:46 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Jack Welch is done with Trump.
posted by glhaynes at 3:47 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

"Regarding this being the line Trump had to cross to get the GOP to disown him this hard: it was his blatant, verbalised vulgarity."...
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 3:47 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

For folks who need a mind cleanse after the trump video, may I suggest Pant Suit Power?

This is what makes me hopeful for progressivism - diversity and tolerance always has more potential than isolationism and fear.

ZOMG this is wonderful, thank you. Can we just all talk for a minute about how JOYFUL this is? This is the America that I believe in: all people joining together to dance, while a little kid struggles to remember the steps but is playing along as best she can.

I was going to wear a HENCHMAN t-shirt for Halloween but now I want to find that a green suitjacket...
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 3:50 PM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]

Trump got his phone back and is retweeting comments from Juanita Broadderick.

This seems like a sure sign he's gonna go all in tomorrow on Bill's foibles. Which would be an excellent strategy if Bill Clinton were running for President.
posted by dis_integration at 3:51 PM on October 8, 2016

@Schwarzenegger 11 minutes ago As proud as I am to label myself a Republican, there is one label that I hold above all else - American. My full statement: Let's go get some plo-chops! [fake]
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 3:52 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

She could also say things like "here, pukebreath, grab a tictac"! Endless varieties possible.
posted by Namlit at 3:53 PM on October 8, 2016

Among other things, we now have proof positive that as soon as Ted Cruz does something, it is no longer cool.
posted by kyrademon at 3:54 PM on October 8, 2016 [49 favorites]

I'm glad to see that my local Repuglican Senator is going all in with the Drumpf. I've already given $25 to his opponent today.
posted by jferg at 3:55 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

NBC and Mark Burnett have a lot to atone for inflating Trump up to the point where anyone ever thought he was a serious candidate.

NBC is apparently going to go with the excuse that they legally can't release any of the unreleased Apprentice footage and it looks like Mark Burnett is just going to pretend that he's in a meeting for the next month and can I take a message.
posted by vuron at 3:55 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

The debate being a town hall is going to make his efforts to redirect everything into an attack on Bill reeeaaal cringy.
posted by jason_steakums at 3:55 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

GOP mega-donors Robert and Rebekah Mercer stand by Trump:

GOP mega-donors Robert and Rebekah Mercer, two of the most influential figures in Trump's orbit, said Saturday that their support for the GOP nominee has not faltered in the slightest after a tape revealed crude remarks he made about women a decade ago.

In a statement to The Washington Post, the billionaire hedge fund executive and his middle daughter, who finance and run a super PAC supporting Trump, dismissed the remarks caught on tape as “locker room braggadocio.”

posted by zachlipton at 3:56 PM on October 8, 2016

Trump is now retweeting Juanita Broaddrick so I am expecting peak ugly at the debate.
posted by prefpara at 3:58 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

guys

is

is trump even going to show up for the debate

I mean if he wants to win he has to, obviously, but maybe he's more comfortable just saying it's a rigged system and staying home where he is indisputably a winner
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:58 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Greg Nog, I had a dream about you two nights ago. You played harmonica and offered to introduce me to Tim Kaine, but I was too shy. I think my dream-mind conflated you with another user who actually played harmonica with Tim Kaine.
posted by angrycat at 3:58 PM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

I saw Kellyann and the Steves at Summerfest '89

Did they do "I'm Walkin' On Trump Slime"?
posted by Sys Rq at 3:58 PM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]

What's the supposed legal reason they can't release Apprentice tapes?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 3:58 PM on October 8, 2016

Seriously, what sort of terrifying locker rooms does Trump hang out in?


As a semi-regular gym-goer, this is the sort of locker-room conversation I'm used to:

"Excuse me- I'm over there."
"Oh, sure- just let me move my stuff."

"I haven't seen you in a while. How are [family and/or acquaintances]?"
"[offspring or dependent] is looking at schools right now- we're really proud."

"What's been happening with [work situation]?"
"[work situation] hasn't been great, but I think it's about to improve."

"OK, BITCHES- WHO KEEPS FOGGING UP THE PLACE WITH AXE BODY SPRAY? SPRAY AND WALK AWAY, BITCHES, SPRAY AND WALK AWAY."

(admittedly, that last one is a bit problematic, but may also be pretty specific to the gym I attend)
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 3:59 PM on October 8, 2016 [33 favorites]

"We haven't seen the level of intra-party civil war that this looks like it might become at any time in recent political history. If it does it could radically alter what we've expected to see as the outcome of the 2016 election."

Please please please please please
posted by schadenfrau at 4:00 PM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]

What's the supposed legal reason they can't release Apprentice tapes?

Grabbyright issues as always.
posted by Namlit at 4:00 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Doesn't Mark Burnett own it?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 4:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Apparently NBC doesn't own or possess the footage only Mark Burnett's production company. It's pretty lame excuse by NBC who almost certainly knew what sort of person Trump was and continued the relationship in order to keep making money.
posted by vuron at 4:02 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

I interrupt today's news about Donald Trump being a vulgar pig to bring you even bigger news: Hillary Clinton is doomed...Yawn. More email stuff. And this time it's not even Clinton's email. It's email from John Podesta, Hillary's campaign chairman and longtime Clinton/Obama major domo. Actually, wait: it's not email from John Podesta. It's from Tony Carrk, but got hacked from Podesta's account because Carrk sent it to a bunch of Clinton campaign folks...

The important thing is that apparently this poor Carrk fellow was tasked with reading through all of Hillary Clinton's paid speeches to see if she had said anything that might be embarrassing if it got out. Carrk found about a dozen things, and attached headlines representing the worst possible spin he could think of. Here's a typical entry:

*CLINTON ADMITS SHE IS OUT OF TOUCH*
....“I do think there is a growing sense of anxiety and even anger in the country over the feeling that the game is rigged. And I never had that feeling when I was growing up. Never....We had good public schools. We had accessible health care. We had our little, you know, one-family house that, you know, he saved up his money, didn’t believe in mortgages. So I lived that. And now, obviously, I’m kind of far removed because the life I’ve lived and the economic, you know, fortunes that my husband and I now enjoy, but I haven’t forgotten it.” [Hillary Clinton Remarks at Goldman-Black Rock, 2/4/14]...

Riveting, isn't it? Behind the scenes, it turns out, Hillary Clinton is running a—what's the word I'm looking for? Oh yes: boring. She's running a pretty boring campaign that basically does all the usual boring campaign stuff.

But of course, this email dump is only the first 2,000 emails, and WikiLeaks promises there are 48,000 more to come. I'm sure the smoking gun is in there somewhere. Probably right alongside the infamous whitey tape that no one ever seems to have tracked down.

New Email Dump Reveals Hillary Clinton is Honest and Boring
posted by y2karl at 4:04 PM on October 8, 2016 [35 favorites]

For reference between now and the debate, @realrealdonaldtrump filters out the iPhone tweets, showing just Donald's. If their bot is working properly with retweets, it looks like those are not from him. (I don't know how the bot manages retweets for sure, though.)
posted by instamatic at 4:04 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Kinda seems like the people who spent all that money trying to find out that Bill Clinton got a blow job, would never vote for the Republican candidate.
The darkness is strong in the ones that still support him.
posted by Mike Hunt at 4:06 PM on October 8, 2016

There is a mini-debate going on in this thread about whether men actually talk like this in the locker room--or on a bus. There is a class element in this, reflected in the comment that Pence is like the judge who allows sexual predators to get away with their shit, whereas Pence would obviously not make comments about grabbing pussy.

My mother came from old money (mis-matched furniture and inherited silver), and despite her liberalism, made disparaging comments about the "nouveau riche," who decorated their homes like you-know-who. Respectable jobs included doctor, architect, maybe lawyer...but not businessman.

We didn't talk like that, although I heard pretty gross comments now and then in my twenties, as a factory/warehouse, perhaps, although not as bad as Trump's. His white privilege is a different flavor than mine.
posted by kozad at 4:06 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

That time he tried to expose himself to Gloria Allred to make a point about why a transgendered woman shouldn't be allowed to participate in Miss Universe.

The thread is going by really quickly, but this link is pretty awful (warning for transphobia, sophomoric mocking of someone's name, obsession with genitalia). Thanks for linking humanfont.

He's literally written down part of Jenna Talackova's name as "JENNATAL" and is mocking her. Like, there's video of this with Barbara Walters. He also goes on about the size of his equipment and questioned Gloria Allred's own gender identify.
posted by zachlipton at 4:07 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

I was just thinking to myself about how Republican gaffes of the past were basically along the lines of Palin saying she could see Russia from her front porch, or Romney's 47% comment, or Paul Ryan doing gymbro cosplay. Good times.

I'm kind of afraid that Trump is completely rewriting the rules on what should be disqualifying behavior, basically unless your name is Hillary Clinton it seems like sort of committing murder you are probably going to be seen in a more positive light than Trump.
posted by vuron at 4:08 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

There is a mini-debate going on in this thread about whether men actually talk like this in the locker room--or on a bus.

I'm not so much debating that. I'm putting forward the view that, at any class level and for any man in any setting, it's not OK. There is no OK place to say that, even if other men reward you for it.
posted by Miko at 4:09 PM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]

Trump and his elephant and leopard murdering sons have no fan base among the people I've been calling.
On FB I know of one POC voter who simply hates Hillary. In real life I know 3 N/A and one Hispanic who were Bernie delegates who were mistreated BADLY at the DNC. They are having a hard time going with Hillary. All 3 local people I know who are Trump voters are White.
I am actually pulling shifts at HQ calling people. I am working my ass off for Hillary. I have worked with 2 coordinated campaign people locally who consider me a damned useful volunteer. The one they have now calls me to train people. He really likes the fact I don't bs around. Everyone has to keep up with me. Most of the people I get to call are Latino. The local people I've reached Do. Not. Like. Trump. There is a raffle fora Trump piñata. Many Whites in my age bracket like Trump, but Whites are out-numbered by Latinos. The younger Whites are probably going to go for Hillary now. This stuff out of Trump was too much.
He's off the deep end.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 4:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [25 favorites]

Investigators release photo of Donald Trump and Marco Rubio sharing Tic Tacs

[real] in the literal sense but [fake] that investigators had anything to do with it.
posted by jeremias at 4:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

... guys I think the Republican Party might be in trouble
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

I got in from canvassing a few hours ago, but I took a nap as soon as I got home and am just now waking up.

I went up with Somerville for Hillary, and we got to the Manchester office around 10am this morning. The setup at Manchester HQ reminded me of the funhouse at Chuck E. Cheese--there were a lot of stop points and weird little side rooms. After going through their very efficient setup, my cohort and I had a less efficient training on how to canvass, and we headed out to our stump, which was about half an hour away. The woman who drove us up grabbed two canvassing packets since there were four people in the car, but that was a lot more ambitious than necessary.

We were canvassing a semi-rural area near a lake in southern New Hampshire, and a lot of our people had left for the year. Among the people we met, one woman very politely informed us she was voting for Trump and another woman more or less chased us off her property. We got three Hillary supporters: a woman with an Eastern European accent who said she was "most likely" voting for Hillary "unless something happened" (oh woe is me, the irony); a woman with two dogs who was psyched to pull the lever for Hillz; and a woman in her 60s with a union background who wanted to volunteer on the campaign. We also got a strong lean for Hillary from a woman who strongly disliked Trump but was concerned about balancing the budget.

As a side note, I dressed in my usual new-wave-fairy-godmother style, expecting that Manchester would be more suburban. The area was a lot more rural than I expected. My apple-cheeked, outdoorsy canvassing partner gleefully pointed out that I wasn't dressed appropriately for the area, at one point saying to someone we were canvassing "she's not wearing the right shoes!" when I stopped to catch my breath. (REALLY?)

For the most part, this was successful for the election. On an interpersonal and planning (on our part, not on the part of the election) level, it was more frustrating, but nothing that would prevent me from going back.
posted by pxe2000 at 4:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [28 favorites]

"As the father of a young girl, I am deeply upset by how far I have to drive to her soccer games. As a human person, trump said fuckin' WHAT?" --@joss
posted by zachlipton at 4:13 PM on October 8, 2016 [104 favorites]

You shot 236 lbs of schadenfreude, but you can only carry 200 lbs back to the wagon.

First, you put the schadenfreude and the presidential candidate into the boat. Row across the river....
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:13 PM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]

If only I had a penguin...: What's the supposed legal reason they can't release Apprentice tapes?

Has anyone confirmed Apprentice tapes even exist? A friend logged reality shows for a summer. It's thousands and thousands of tapes per season that they have to go through and log the dialogue and actions along with the timecode. I could see them fast forwarding to the slate, so off camera dialogue wouldn't be searchable in the database, but even more likely I could see a production company trashing the thousands of raw tapes once the show was canceled and off the air for a few years instead of paying for storage. After all, who would've foreseen their host getting this close to the Presidency? But Burnett's company is well funded, not fly-by-night, so if anyone can afford storage, they can...
posted by bluecore at 4:14 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

In this momentary lull, I will just note that if I ever meet David Fahrenthold, I will get down on one knee and propose to him.

Me too, in the same bellowing tone he used with Trump- MR FAHRENTHOLD, HERE IS THE PROOF WE WILL BE TOGETHER FOREVEEEEEEEEER
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 4:14 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

Kinda seems like the people who spent all that money trying to find out that Bill Clinton got a blow job, would never vote for the Republican candidate.

Lindsey Graham has something to say about that.
posted by Slothrup at 4:15 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

to farenthave and to farenthold
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:15 PM on October 8, 2016 [36 favorites]

Lindsey Graham has something to say about that.

Thanks for the reminder, Lindsey. I had almost forgotten how much I hate the rest of the assholes in your party for a minute.
posted by bibliowench at 4:18 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Kids, this is exactly like it was during the summer of Watergate as each day brought news that topped yesterday's untoppable news and we experienced the glee of having everyone learn what the rest of us already knew about Nixon even though his hard-core supporters ...
Sorry. Flashback.
posted by DanSachs at 4:20 PM on October 8, 2016 [76 favorites]

Juanita Broaddrick was never fully litigated and is extremely credible. Trump is going to unload this on Clinton on Sunday with both barrels. It's potentially damaging to millennial voters coming into the fold especially if Clinton dismisses the allegations out of hand.

What happens Sunday if Clinton tries to wrestle with the proverbial pig?
posted by Talez at 4:21 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

I was wondering how this compared to Nixon. If people felt the same horrified unreality that this man was once in the running for the highest office in the land.
posted by chainsofreedom at 4:22 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Presumably the town hall format means that there will be a variety of questions from the audience. I'll bet Hillary will stay on point and answer them, and Trump will sputter and deflect and melt down.
posted by Sublimity at 4:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm pretty sure Nixon was considered an experienced and capable politician. Even "the actor" Reagan had governed a state. Trump makes any state governor including Sarah Pain look like Abraham Lincoln.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:24 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

Didn't Nixon get re-elected after Watergate?
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:24 PM on October 8, 2016

The last President with zero elected experience was Dwight Eisenhower, best known for ensuring that the Allied Forces in WII did not have to file for bankruptcy.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:26 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

Nope. Ford took over, but pardoned Nixon. Carter won the next election.
posted by vbfg at 4:26 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

What happens Sunday if Clinton tries to wrestle with the proverbial pig?

p sure we can just sit back and watch it bbq itself
posted by poffin boffin at 4:27 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

Didn't Nixon get re-elected after Watergate?

No. The Watergate crimes occurred during and after his second campaign.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:27 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Schadenfreude frosting: apparently the news about the Trump tape came out on Vladimir Putin's birthday, or as near as makes no difference.

Here's a video of Putin being sent 450 roses, one from each Russian MP [real]
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:27 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Maybe she'll come out with something like "Juanita Broaddrick absolutely deserved to be believed. Being the spouse of something accused of a crime like that puts you between the rock and a hard place of wanting to believe the love of your life and wanting to believe a woman who has been the victim of one of the most heinous crimes you can commit".

I'm honest to god worried about Sunday with Trump telegraphing this move.
posted by Talez at 4:28 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Didn't Nixon get re-elected after Watergate?

"Don't change Dicks in the middle of a screw—vote for Nixon in '72"
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:28 PM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

Reince Priebus won't be on Face the Nation tomorrow and Rudy Giuliani will substitute. An RNC official said that the Trump campaign "wanted a campaign person" to appear.
posted by octothorpe at 4:28 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

Nope. Ford took over, but pardoned Nixon. Carter won the next election.

Nixon resigned in his second term. I believe that's what they were asking. I'm not sure when it became apparent Watergate was a big deal, though.
posted by hoyland at 4:28 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Juanita Broaddrick was never fully litigated and is extremely credible. Trump is going to unload this on Clinton on Sunday with both barrels.

After Trump's child-rape lawsuit got the go-ahead, Juanita Broaddrick will not be mentioned. It'll be a NAFTA and Emails doubledown.

Here's the deal about tomorrow night - the pig thinks it's there to wrestle in the mud. The butcher has other plans.

Hillary is sharpening her knives, while The Donald is wallowing as hard as he can.
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:30 PM on October 8, 2016 [48 favorites]

"Reince Priebus no longer appearing on Face the Nation tomorrow because Trump team “wanted a campaign person," per CBS. So it's Rudy Giuliani" --@mlcalderone

I've never thought of the title of the show in such an ominous way before, but someone literally does have to face the nation tomorrow morning.
posted by zachlipton at 4:30 PM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]

Watergate and all that didn't come out till the second term; the activities took place during the reelection campaign. Before that it was just the dirty hippies against the war who were anti-Nixon.
posted by DanSachs at 4:30 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Of course, if someone does have to face the nation to speak for this, who better than the man who called a press conference to break up with his wife?
posted by zachlipton at 4:31 PM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

When they come out tomorrow, does Hillary shake his hand?

And on a side note, I got my 'Rural PA for Hillary' sticker today at a fall festival deep inside Trump country. I thanked the county Dem representative and told my daughter that this was the person who was helping Hillary get elected for a better future for girls like her. My 7 year old was impressed and got her own H sticker and she proudly wore it. On the way back to the car we passed the Trump table, heads held high.
posted by splen at 4:32 PM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]

Eisenhower DID pick Nixon as his running mate, so that's one managerial strike against him.

The Washington Post (Woodward and Bernstein) exposed some of the Watergate scandal before the 1972, but they had not gotten 'legs' in the media until after Nixon was safely re-elected.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:32 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Besides, Reince is busy with other things, meetings, that have everything and nothing to do, with electing Donald Trump.
posted by Oyéah at 4:32 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Before that it was just the dirty hippies against the war who were anti-Nixon.

My dad likens him to Ted Cruz. "I never liked him, the man always seemed like a creep."
posted by sallybrown at 4:33 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

All Republicans will be known as 1st day republican, 2nd day republican, 3rd day republican, ... .
posted by rainy at 4:33 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

After Trump's child-rape lawsuit got the go-ahead, Juanita Broaddrick will not be mentioned. It'll be a NAFTA and Emails doubledown.

Didn't already get the go-ahead? He tweeted about Broaddrick tonight.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 4:33 PM on October 8, 2016

When they come out tomorrow, does Hillary shake his hand?

Yes, because she's not a child. She'll have to shake Putin's hand, she'll have to shake the hands of men who disparage and disrespect her leadership because it comes from a woman. She'll shake it and she won't flinch, but she won't smile.
posted by sallybrown at 4:34 PM on October 8, 2016 [53 favorites]

She could also say things like "here, pukebreath, grab a tictac"

OMG. Can you imagine the crowd reaction if Clinton calmly shook out a TicTac and ate it while Trump was speaking?
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 4:37 PM on October 8, 2016 [17 favorites]

Trump is going to unload this on Clinton on Sunday with both barrels.

What's going to be a sight to see on Sunday is how Trump is going to maintain the respectable sheen he failed to sustain during the last debate. This tape and the fallout is only ONE thing he'll have to account for. And in some (not all) ways this whole mess is a distraction, Trump was awful from the start and it's only Republicans inability to spin these words into anything more palatable that's making this stick.

Clinton can handle attacks while pushing forward her message on the fly. Trump's position was much more stable going into the first debate and he had no ability to deflect and pivot without spiraling into nonsense and bluster then. I can't see how he'll do much more than swell and burst during the second.
posted by AtoBtoA at 4:38 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Hillary isn't a classless, unstable narcascist. I'm confident she can handle a Juanita Broaddrick reference / attack.
posted by humanfont at 4:38 PM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

New Email Dump Reveals Hillary Clinton is Honest and Boring

Brought to you by Russia interfering with the election, but Republicans don't care because their guy is Putin's guy.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:40 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

I can't imagine Trump trying to get anywhere with the Juanita Broadrick allegations. If you try to push a narrative that not only was Clinton a rapist but that Hillary threatened Juanita you need to bring something new to the table. Journalists and investigators were cautious about it back during the Lewinsky saga and it seems highly unlikely that there is new evidence that could point to it being anything other than a he said, she said allegation. Even if you are likely to accept the allegation at face value which some people are it's going to be something that will be hard to impact Hillary with.

In contrast the current Trump scandal has actual evidence that people can watch and listen to themselves and it's basically impossible to negate that which is why the current strategy seems to be to excuse it as being "locker room talk"

In short the Trump stuff has legs but the Juanita Broadrick stuff is exceedingly unlikely to be carried outside of the right wing blogosphere.
posted by vuron at 4:41 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

I'm really hoping that Clinton basically ignores him and uses the venue as a way to push her agenda forward. She's presidential, and I like to think the presidential thing to do here has nothing with sick burns or gotchas, but with advocating for a better America.
posted by gofargogo at 4:42 PM on October 8, 2016 [60 favorites]

Keep in mind the "debate" tomorrow is actually a town hall event which means for the most part the candidates don't interact with each other much but instead get asked questions by the audience.

About the only way that Broadrick will come up is if Trump gets asked about this tape and he tries to pivot it back to "Bill is a rapist" which is going to be a challenging response at best to deliver.
posted by vuron at 4:45 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Looks like NC Gov McCrory is having an October surprise moment of his own.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:46 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

She's got to be prepared for virtually anything to come out of his mouth at this point. I mean, we all are, and we aren't running for president with a team of highly qualified people helping us prepare. I think Hillary will be fine. Great, even. Her best strategy might be to just stand there and let him talk.
posted by something something at 4:47 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Trump Video Appology Echoes the Appologies of Abusers
posted by humanfont at 4:48 PM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

I do not put it past Trump to say this in front of God and everybody. That word got the country's attention, and the man is a creature of instinct; the one thing he loves is attention.

Hmm. I totally think he'll want to, but his read on the room won't let him do it--it won't be a blood thirsty rally, he'll actually have to see people's faces, and he's sensitive to the mood of the room like some kind of mood diviner who subsists on approval.

I bet he brings it up obliquely, in a cowardly way.
posted by schadenfrau at 4:48 PM on October 8, 2016

About the only way that Broadrick will come up is if Trump gets asked about this tape and he tries to pivot it back to "Bill is a rapist" which is going to be a challenging response at best to deliver.

And how many people outside of Brietbart even know what that is? He's going to look like (more of) a raving loon bringing that up when 90% of voters watching it have no clue what he's saying.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:48 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Mr. Trump, you said this week that you believe the Central Park Five are still guilty because they confessed to the crime after a lengthy and exhausting police interrogation, despite ample evidence and the judgement of the judicial system determining they were innocent. If you believe their incriminating statements decades ago make them guilty over all other available evidence, why should Americans believe your repudiation of the words that came out of your mouth 11 years ago?
posted by zachlipton at 4:48 PM on October 8, 2016 [23 favorites]

Donald Trump getting on a moral high horse and accusing someone else of sexually assaulting women at this moment in time in a town hall setting (not filled with rabid Trump supporters) on live TV would be an incredibly unwise thing to do. Which doesn't mean it won't happen, but man.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:50 PM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]

I do not put it past Trump to say this in front of God and everybody. That word got the country's attention, and the man is a creature of instinct; the one thing he loves is attention

Fantastic if he does. He has to convince college educated women and moderates. Going unhinged and negative in a townhall setting may make him and Trumpsters feel good, but it's not going to work with the people he needs to get above 40%.
posted by chris24 at 4:51 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm sure Ms. Clinton's people have Focus Group Tested various responses and counter-moves and found the most concise but effective message which she has committed to memory. This is a professional campaign we're talking about here.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:51 PM on October 8, 2016 [19 favorites]

vbfg: "Nope. Ford took over, but pardoned Nixon. Carter won the next election."

It's worth remembering that the Republican party managed to bounce back quickly after Watergate with a landslide election in 1980. Don't get your hopes up that Trump will mean the end of the GOP.
posted by octothorpe at 4:51 PM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]

Bill said that "Hillary had eaten more pussy than [he] had."

That was Gennifer Flowers.

Hey, if we're going all-in on the gutter fight, I wonder what would happen if she owned it.

"Donald, you're right, I've probably eaten more pussy than you have, and..."

I mean, unlike the 80's, where that started, it'd probably gain her more votes than it loses today. I'd have some respect for it, anyway. And Trump might literally implode from confused impotence.

Don't mind me, I'm past the 1000-comment level of drunkenness.
posted by rokusan at 4:52 PM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]

The news coverage that I've seen seems to cut right when they get off the bus, so, not showing the egregious touching and forcing of attention on the actress. I find that part of the video to be as disturbing, and a perfect example of how women are constantly having to negotiate our own safety around men.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 4:52 PM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]

I'm curious, since Donald felt that sexual assault deserves capital punishment, wouldn't it be consistent if he calls for capital punishment in the instance of his confession to sexual assault on the bus tape? Or is that too much to ask?
posted by rainy at 4:52 PM on October 8, 2016

Donald Trump getting on a moral high horse and accusing someone else of sexually assaulting women at this moment in time in a town hall setting (not filled with rabid Trump supporters) on live TV would be an incredibly unwise thing to do. Which doesn't mean it won't happen, but man.

In fact, the sheer idiocy of it means it probably will happen.

Because, y'know, Trump.
posted by dersins at 4:52 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

In fact, the sheer idiocy of it means it probably will happen.
Because, y'know, Trump.

I know. I'm just sort of gobsmacked at the prospect of witnessing that and the unimaginable fallout.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:56 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Trump better hope that Putin and the FSB can deliver some better dirt than someone associated with John Podesta sending an email giving some thoughts on Clinton's speeches. Seriously if there was anything remotely worth a gotcha in those speeches they would've already been made public. The reality is that they are more valuable in an unknown state.

Same with the 33,000 emails.

Actually providing detail about the banality of Clinton is going to do nothing to right a sinking ship.
posted by vuron at 4:58 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

I know. I'm just sort of gobsmacked at the prospect of witnessing that and the unimaginable fallout.

I dread watching his poll numbers hold above 40% and losing complete faith in humanity.
posted by Talez at 4:59 PM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]

popcorn.gif

Senior CNN political reporter @mkraju:
- Giuliani, leaving Trump Tower, signals Trump is ready to wage war against his party. "This is basically the insiders versus the outsiders." -
posted by chris24 at 4:59 PM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]

Commence popcorn!
posted by Kitty Stardust at 5:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

@costareports: The people at Trump Tower today, per mulitiple sources...

Christie
Giuliani
Priebus
Bannon
Conway
Don Trump Jr.
Bossie
Hicks

Ah, excellent -- a tar-and-featherin' list
posted by Celsius1414 at 5:02 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

Is there a good grassroots way to put pressure on Mark Burnett to release the tapes?

- He's president of MGM Television and Digital Group, whose shows include The Voice (NBC); Survivor (CBS); Shark Tank (ABC); Beyond the Tank (ABC); Celebrity Apprentice (NBC); Fargo (FX);Vikings (HISTORY); Teen Wolf (MTV); 500 Questions (ABC); The People's Choice Awards (CBS); Lucha Underground (El Rey Network) and America's Greatest Makers (INTEL/Turner).

- He is married to Roma Downey (aw man I loved her in Touched By An Angel (omg Della Reese officiated their wedding!!!!))

- He and Downey are heavily involved in philanthropic organizations Operation Smile and Compassion. In 2014, they announced a fundraising plan called Cradle of Christianity that aims to raise $25 million to help Iraqi and Syrian Christians and other minorities displaced by ISIL survive that upcoming winter.
posted by sallybrown at 5:03 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Donald Trump getting on a moral high horse and accusing someone else of sexually assaulting women at this moment in time in a town hall setting (not filled with rabid Trump supporters) on live TV would be an incredibly unwise thing to do. Which doesn't mean it won't happen, but man.

The thing is that he's going to be in a town hall with undecided voters (to the extent there can be such a thing anymore) all around him. And if he starts blaming other people, those people will almost certainly have an involuntary physical reaction. That's inevitable--most of us recoiled when we were watching his whatever-that-was last night and he pivoted to "Hillary Clinton and her kind." He's going to say the name "Juanita Broaddrick" and the audience's jaws are going to drop.

Reaction gifs for days.
posted by zachlipton at 5:04 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Giuliani, leaving Trump Tower, signals Trump is ready to wage war against his party.

This, right here, is how it was always going to go. The war was always inevitable; it's been going on since the primary; Trump made huge territory gains through blitz and asymmetry but the established power was always going to strike back. They tried at the convention. If this hasn't happened they would've tried after he was sworn in. But there was always going to be war, and now it's upon us.

It's the death of the Republican party and it can't happen fast enough.
posted by penduluum at 5:04 PM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]

Giuliani, leaving Trump Tower, signals...

I'm glad this is such a meltdown that instead of getting angry, this kind of thing just makes me have dumb thoughts. Like, how did he signal it? Semaphore? Egoland expects every man would grab that booty? Tomorrow is going to be something, that's for sure.
posted by feloniousmonk at 5:05 PM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

You're assuming that whatever replaces it will be an improvement. I don't have a lot of faith in that.
posted by Archelaus at 5:05 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

@costareports: The people at Trump Tower today, per mulitiple sources...

Christie
Giuliani
Priebus
Bannon
Conway
Don Trump Jr.
Bossie
Hicks

No Ivanka and Jared? Ryan Lizza's profile of Conway says "The Trump adviser added, “The real campaign manager, in fact, the entire time, has been Jared Kushner, who is still the real campaign manager, even today.”" So where was he?

Somewhere in the maelstrom of the last day, someone quoted a tweet that said one of the family was urging Trump to drop out. Was it one of the Trump-Kushners?
posted by sallybrown at 5:06 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Sweet Jeebus he's now picking a fight with Robert De Niro.
posted by Dr. Zira at 5:07 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Good article from Robert Costa and others at WaPo.

Carl Paladino, Trump’s New York state co-chairman, a former gubernatorial candidate who had his own scandals over sexism and racism, said Trump’s “gutter talk” was something “all men do, at least all normal men.”

“The only people concerned with this are Hillary people right now and the treacherous ones in the Republican Party,” Paladino said. “The people in America look at this and say it’s another day in the life of Donald Trump. It doesn’t matter to them.”

*sigh*
posted by jferg at 5:08 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Oh wow it looks like Metafilter's own Scott Adams is rescinding his endorsement of Trump and transferring it to Johnson.

I would link but I don't want to drive any traffic to his site.

But man when you've lost Dilbert you know your campaign is sinking fast.
posted by vuron at 5:08 PM on October 8, 2016 [61 favorites]

Parody account, Dr. Zira.
posted by glhaynes at 5:08 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Republicans knew that Trump was racist and misogynist when they nominated him. That was part of his appeal. Do you think it's an accident that the first woman nominated by a major party is running against a troglodyte? A troglodyte that, by the way, that the Republicans knew at the beginning had less chance of winning against Clinton than other candidates but they couldn't resist his "straight talk". Openly articulated racism and sexism was too exciting for them to pass by in favor of picking a winning candidate. Just because there's tape proving exactly how repulsive Trump is isn't really a reason for Republicans to dump him. It's probably a very good reason to rethink what the Republican party represents and who it appeals to but for the moment Trump is who represents the Republicans and his supporters are who the Republican party appeals to.

I also wonder why there isn't fire directed at NBC. Access Hollywood is distributed by NBC. The various Apprentice programs were NBC shows. So whoever ran Access Hollywood must have been familiar with Trump's behavior. Why isn't there any push-back against whatever executive told Ariana Zucker to look pretty and be nice while greeting Donald Trump or told Billy Bush to go sit with him in a bus full of guys and laugh at his shit? Or whoever decided that the rating from the Apprentice were worth more than the risk of NDA bound contestants suing the shit out of them for Trump's behavior. Let me clear. Those executives are not responsible for Trump's actions but they enabled it and some of the heat directed at Trump should be aimed at them.

And I cannot let this go... Swamped by the reaction to the Access Hollywood tape is Trump declaring that he didn't believe that the Central Park Five were innocent. I'm repeating what many of you know but I have to write it. The Central Park Five were young black and Hispanic boys convicted of raping a white woman. When they were arrested Trump took out newspaper ads urging their execution. They were juveniles and this was in New York. They were convicted and imprisoned but it turns that their confessions were coerced and they were innocent. Years later someone else confessed and the five were cleared by DNA evidence. When New York settled with them for $41 million in 2014 Trump wrote an opinion piece opposing the settlement. Last week Trump said he still believed they were guilty. So the point of this story is that Trump is telling his supporters that innocence is irrelevant when it comes to punishing black men. That sends a specific message. It's a message designed to inspire fear in African Americans and appeal to white supremacists. It's a message that should be very familiar to anyone who knows history.
posted by rdr at 5:08 PM on October 8, 2016 [113 favorites]

Dr. Zira, that's a fake account.
posted by condour75 at 5:09 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

> "No Ivanka and Jared?"

That may just be because it's the Sabbath.
posted by kyrademon at 5:10 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Haha Trump's response to DeNiro is classic internet toughguy with "come say that to my face".

Jesus this election couldn't get anymore surreal can it?

Blah stupid parody accounts that are basically indistinquishable from the real thing.
posted by vuron at 5:10 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

No Ivanka and Jared? Ryan Lizza's profile of Conway says "The Trump adviser added, “The real campaign manager, in fact, the entire time, has been Jared Kushner, who is still the real campaign manager, even today.”" So where was he?

It was, until an hour ago or so in New York, the Sabbath. They weren't working.
posted by zachlipton at 5:10 PM on October 8, 2016

How does one tell what titter feed is the real real donald trump? Oh, also, I hate twitter.
posted by skewed at 5:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Carl Paladino, Trump’s New York state co-chairman... said Trump’s “gutter talk” was something “all men do, at least all normal men.”

Even if that were true, it wouldn't excuse Trump in any way. It just means all those other men shouldn't become president either.
posted by mbrubeck at 5:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]

skewed, there is always the verified checkmark.
posted by infinitewindow at 5:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

How does one tell what titter feed is the real real donald trump?

Stand back and let Poe's Lawyers figure it out.
posted by rokusan at 5:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

(In this particular case, one could also tell it was a parody/fake because the Twitter account used a capital "i" instead of a lowercase "L" in "Donald.")
posted by Spathe Cadet at 5:13 PM on October 8, 2016

How does one tell what titter feed is the real real donald trump? Oh, also, I hate twitter.

The actual Donald Trump account is 'realDonaldTrump', that's real with an L. This particular parody account is using a capital i instead of the (lower-case) L.
posted by Juffo-Wup at 5:13 PM on October 8, 2016

So clearly the answer is to always use serifed fonts.
posted by jferg at 5:14 PM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

Giuliani, leaving Trump Tower, signals Trump is ready to wage war against his party

TRÜMPERDÄMMERUNG 2016
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 5:14 PM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]

the established power was always going to strike back. They tried at the convention.

Nope. As corb can attest, they squashed the opposition to Trump.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:17 PM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]

penduluum: "It's the death of the Republican party and it can't happen fast enough."

Well, the fallout from the DNC/Sanders debacle may well end up actually splitting the left (more than it has already), which could pave the way for a true multi-party government. That would be interesting to see, except I have no idea how the hell that would actually play out with our system...
posted by Red Loop at 5:17 PM on October 8, 2016

Dwight Eisenhower, best known for ensuring that the Allied Forces in WII did not have to file for bankruptcy.

Well to be fair he was also a terrible president of Columbia University.
posted by spitbull at 5:18 PM on October 8, 2016

(twitter) NEW: Rudy Giuliani-Trump Advisor replaces Kellyanne Conway on Fox News Sunday.
posted by sallybrown at 5:19 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

Well, the fallout from the DNC/Sanders debacle may well end up actually splitting the left

There's no evidence of this at all. The party is almost fully united behind Clinton. And if this turns into a wave election nobody is going to rock the boat.
posted by Justinian at 5:19 PM on October 8, 2016 [22 favorites]

NEW: Rudy Giuliani-Trump Advisor replaces Kellyanne Conway on Fox News Sunday.

Holy shit... Especially in the context of "An RNC official said that the Trump campaign "wanted a campaign person" to appear."
posted by Talez at 5:22 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

I don't think he's going to bring up Broaddrick tomorrow. He hopes to rattle Clinton with these tweets (yeah, sure) and lay out some bait for the media (much more likely to succeed).
posted by maudlin at 5:22 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Can't Obama just nominate Garland again, with a big "FINAL NOTICE" stamped across it? Added text: the President has requested your advice, and you have failed to provide it. If you do not respond with a properly-voted No answer by [date], the President will consider that 'consent' to the appointment as specified in the Constitution.
posted by ctmf at 5:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Trump donors angry, want their money back after lewd tape leak

"A prominent Trump bundler told CBS News that he “could not tell you how many” calls he’s gotten from donors in the course of the last day. After the Washington Post first published the tape, people want their money back, he said."

Hahahaha. Good luck with that.
posted by chris24 at 5:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]

Broaddrick is losing my willingness to believe in her good faith by her willingness to throw other victims of sexual assault under the bus.

I don't get it. I really don't. I'm not saying I necessarily think she made it up, but if she didn't make it up, then she seems to be willing to let other women get sexually assaulted or have their attacks be ignored to get back at the Clintons, and I have to draw a line there and say that's beyond the realm of acceptable outlets for one's anger. And she was literally tweeting that Trump only talked about it and therefore it doesn't matter. It just made me feel sick to my stomach. I really hope that Hillary's team is working out a classy way to respond to this, because I don't know what words you use to make people understand the weight of what Broaddrick is saying and the bargain she's making in choosing sides on this of all issues.

I don't even really have words for it myself at this point. I thought the Trump campaign was just bringing this up and it was seriously tasteless. The fact that she's actually willing to say that Trump isn't a real threat but the Clintons are makes me feel ill.
posted by Sequence at 5:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [24 favorites]

Can't Obama just nominate Garland again, with a big "FINAL NOTICE" stamped across it? Added text: the President has requested your advice, and you have failed to provide it. If you do not respond with a properly-voted No answer by [date], the President will consider that 'consent' to the appointment as specified in the Constitution.

Failure to say "no" is not consent. Let's not create any confusion on this point.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 5:26 PM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

Justinian: "Well, the fallout from the DNC/Sanders debacle may well end up actually splitting the left

There's no evidence of this at all. The party is almost fully united behind Clinton. And if this turns into a wave election nobody is going to rock the boat."

oh, god, not now. I mean, before the next election. Sorry that wasn't clear.
posted by Red Loop at 5:27 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

That would be interesting to see, except I have no idea how the hell that would actually play out with our system...

It can't, unless all parties concerned have a commitment towards a vision of America. In the past, as parties more or less shared the same vision, it creaked along, but as this vision eroded along with white supremacy and gender prejudice, the Constitutional system has shown some inherent flaws.

The revanchism in the GOP has gotten to the point that it no longer recognizes a Democrat-led America as a legitimate possibility. I mean, if Clinton loses, it wouldn't even occur to me that I deserved my 40-odd dollars back, because I would understand that I wasn't always able or entitled to buy what I wanted. Not so the big GOP donors or the GOP. They would rather choke the country than help to govern it under Obama, and under Clinton as well, I expect. Some GOP officials are openly saying that this will be the "last election," if Hillary wins. I'm spending too much time worrying about the implications of this.
posted by Countess Elena at 5:28 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

1) Neither party is dying
2) Long term establishment of a multiple party system is more or less impossible
3) Divisions between the progressives and centrist parts of the Democratic party are wildly overstated
4) Divisions within the Republican party are also overstated
5) In the big scheme of things Trump is a momentary blip on the timeline
posted by vuron at 5:29 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

well i guess that's cleared up
posted by R.F.Simpson at 5:30 PM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]

I think you're understating the fracture in the Republican party. That doesn't mean its doomed by any means. But the divide between the establishment types and the lunatic base is real and appears to be growing.
posted by Justinian at 5:30 PM on October 8, 2016 [23 favorites]

Whoa! I'm not gonna tell anyone how to feel, but Broaddrick choosing not to stand by her abuser isn't something I'm gonna criticize. Bill Clinton is an abuser like Trump. Period. If people demand others stand up for him it'll be just like it was during his presidency when women's rights get set back for Bill's gain. Fuck that and fuck him.
posted by gusottertrout at 5:31 PM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]

oh boy, is this great!
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 5:31 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

I can't wait for the debate
posted by Lyme Drop at 5:31 PM on October 8, 2016

I'm not saying I necessarily think she made it up, but if she didn't make it up, then she seems to be willing to let other women get sexually assaulted or have their attacks be ignored to get back at the Clintons

Being petty, grudge-holding, anti-feminist, and a plethora of other things - none of it protects you from sexual assault. Jerks get sexually assaulted just like nice women do. And perhaps a woman who was sexually assaulted by a prominent government official, and then vaulted herself into the poisonously woman-hating national media stage of the 1990s, has some warped and difficult shit going on. I can believe Broadderick that Bill assaulted her back then and hate the choices she makes now.

(I think her belief that Hillary shaking her hand was some secret code handshake for "I will destroy you" is not reality, more like evidence of her trauma.)
posted by sallybrown at 5:32 PM on October 8, 2016 [36 favorites]

I, too, refuse to vote for Bill Clinton for President this November.
posted by Justinian at 5:32 PM on October 8, 2016 [141 favorites]

Holy shit, CNN just played tapes from the Howard Stern show where he brags about taking advantage of his position as owner of the beauty pageant to harass the pageant contestants.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:35 PM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

93-year-old Bob Dole, standing by the Republican nominee.

“I look at it a little differently,” the 93-year-old Mr. Dole said. “I’ve been a Republican forever. The party has been very good to me. I’ve had many opportunities as a Republican, and I find it very difficult to desert the party after Trump won 40% of the vote in the primary.”

Bob Dole. Bob Dole. . . Bob Dole. . . Bob . . dole
posted by petebest at 5:36 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

I, too, refuse to vote for Bill Clinton for President this November.

I'm fully supporting Hillary Clinton as president. She'll be great. Bill is just extra baggage of a really crappy sort. I'd just prefer we not act like he is somehow an okay dude while Trump's boys aren't.
posted by gusottertrout at 5:37 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

I thought Bob Dole was dead. Apparently I was wrong.
posted by Existential Dread at 5:37 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

93-year-old Bob Dole, standing by the Republican nominee.

Has anyone confirmed that this is actually Bob Dole and not Norm Macdonald in old-man makeup?
posted by dis_integration at 5:38 PM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]

Who the hell was talking about Trump's sons?
posted by schadenfrau at 5:38 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

I'd just prefer we not act like he is somehow an okay dude while Trump's boys aren't.

I would prefer we focus on the people who are actually running for office.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:39 PM on October 8, 2016 [24 favorites]

I fear there has been perilously little talk about this considering the unofficial theme of our election threads: how fabulous is Lin-Manuel Miranda going to make sure SNL is tonight? It's going to be one for the books.
posted by sallybrown at 5:39 PM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]

Failure to say "no" is not consent. Let's not create any confusion on this point.

Let's not conflate politics and parliamentary procedure with personal consent. There are an awful lot of things in lawmaking and in government that proceed as assent if they are not explicitly objected to. In the world where the Senate refrains from participating in its duty, you can make a constitutional case to take the silence of the Senate as assent for a nomination. That would be for the courts to decide.
posted by tclark at 5:40 PM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]

Giuliani, leaving Trump Tower...
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 5:40 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

I know comments of this type have been made before, and I'm sure they'll be made again before this election is all over, but for me the past 24 hours have been special. I have been glued to this thread (and the previous one) more than ever before. I mean anything on the internet ever before - previous elections, natural disasters, twitter storms. It is an obsession that's ... maybe not damaging but certainly not healthy. I mean for God's sake, I actually turned on CNN last night. I believe that marks the first time I have ever deliberately tuned in to a cable news network.

I spent most of this afternoon shopping with my fiancée for clothing for our wedding. This was hours of my life that probably should have been a bit more tightly focused on my actual surroundings, but instead every time my part of the process was finished - out came the phone to refresh this thread. To be clear, we're having the opposite of a huge bash and most of today was just choosing between twenty different neckties or whatever, and okay honestly most of the shopping was just regular clothes shopping, but still.

I gotta take a break. Gotta. I have to leave the computer now and go over to her place and be with her and maybe not be checking my phone every five minutes, but I can't stand the thought that I'm gonna miss the Next Big Revelation That Helps Bury Trump Permanently.

So what I'm asking is that maybe a few kind souls take pity on me and MeMail me directly if some big scandal hits tonight - any time between now and the end of SNL. I'll catch up the regular news tomorrow at breakfast, but I

okay this is just sounding absurd as I type it out

...

and yet I'm still going to click on 'Post Comment' because I really do want to know if a new scandal erupts. My schadenfreude gland grew three sizes today and I have to keep it regulated.
posted by komara at 5:41 PM on October 8, 2016 [28 favorites]

I haven't been participating much in these debate threads, but I just booked my plane ticket to Ohio where I'll spend the last two weeks of the election sleeping on an old friend's sofa bed and volunteering every second I can to GOTV.
posted by sleepy psychonaut at 5:42 PM on October 8, 2016 [79 favorites]

I'm picturing the Trump/RNC's Friday more like this than the Downfall clip.
posted by ctmf at 5:42 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Trump's boys meaning the idiot children who are supporting him, not just the idiot children he fathered.

And I too would prefer to focus on the people actually running for office, but I couldn't ignore posts questioning Broadderick and standing up for Bill that I've seen today.
posted by gusottertrout at 5:44 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

This is late, but I don't think the sexual assault aspect of the remarks matters to a lot of people or even jumps out at them, and certainly not the whole 'let's make nice to hot women and joke about dating them' thing second half of the video. Based on my personal conversations with others - joking about grabbing and kissing women is pretty much normal shit. Just normal asshole stuff. Joking about grabbing women's pussies and trying to fuck married women 'like a bitch' are one vulgarity across the line and if he hadn't used that specific language then I don't think this would be as big a deal.
posted by bq at 5:46 PM on October 8, 2016

> I'm not sure when it became apparent Watergate was a big deal, though.

It was apparent to me in June 1972, when the press first reported that one of the burglars was a Republican Party flunkey. I thought it was going to derail Nixon's campaign and was astonished when the story vanished without a trace; my sense of vindication a couple of years later was tarnished by the fact that Nixon remained president because those fuckers in the press refused to take it seriously.

> I gotta take a break. Gotta. I have to leave the computer now

My wife just said this to me almost word for word. I want to thank everyone who participates in these threads for helping me stay sane during this crazy-making political season.
posted by languagehat at 5:46 PM on October 8, 2016 [25 favorites]

Komara, if it makes you feel better I've been alternating between this tab and 20 different wedding caterer websites.

I'm just glad my partner and I are both political dorks.
posted by Sara C. at 5:47 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Why This One Is Different:

Because logic doesn't play into it. People are viscerally affected. It emotionally grabs our national pussy like it has a right to, and we're fucking angry about it.

All the spinmeisters and the career talking heads are digging into the words because that's all they have to work with, but that depletes the outrage by its very nature. This is how the story is being fought down.

Mexicans are rapists, the blacks live in hell, Putin's a great guy, why can't we nuke 'em, let's grab their oil, let's kill their families - these are all presented and discussed as positions (they're not but go with me here), which Trump's supporters are immune to because logic.

"Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything." isn't logic-based. It's not an arguable point and therefore the Trumpsters have no defense. That's why it's different. That's why it's so devastating to Trump's campaign.
posted by petebest at 5:47 PM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]

In the world where the Senate refrains from participating in its duty, you can make a constitutional case to take the silence of the Senate as assent for a nomination. That would be for the courts to decide.

Well, The Court. Which just got its ninth Justice.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:47 PM on October 8, 2016

That may just be because it's the Sabbath.

the sun set 3h ago
posted by poffin boffin at 5:47 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Holy shit, CNN just played tapes from the Howard Stern show where he brags about taking advantage of his position as owner of the beauty pageant to harass the pageant contestants.

Yeah here's the link to CNN's story on the Stern comments and here's the audio of that specific one, though there are many.

Stern presses Trump on whether he's had sex with any of the contestants. Trump then says (typos are mine): "I'll tell you the funniest. I'll go backstage before a show, and everyone's getting dressed and ready and everything else, and you know, no men are anywhere, and I'm allowed to go in because I'm the owner of the pageant and therefore I'm inspecting it. You know. I'm inspecting. I want to make sure that everything is good [Stern: you're like a doctor]. Yeah. Is everyone ok? They're standing there with no clothes. And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that."

You can just about hear the airquotes around "inspecting" in his tone of voice. What a creep.
posted by zachlipton at 5:48 PM on October 8, 2016 [29 favorites]

I'm not saying I necessarily think she made it up, but if she didn't make it up, then she seems to be willing to let other women get sexually assaulted or have their attacks be ignored to get back at the Clintons

so what if she is? Rape only improves women in soap opera storylines. I think even soaps have stopped doing that because somebody explained misogyny to them in the 90s at some point. Maybe she's a victim and maybe she's a petty person, and they have nothing at all to do with each other and neither influences the likelihood of the other. If you must find a reason not to believe her, make it because you think it's out of character for BC to have done it or because of some factual thing, not because you think it's possible for it to be out of character for any woman to have been assaulted. that is kind of grotesque.

Her character now and her actions now have no bearing on the truth of her accusations. They shouldn't have any bearing on the election, either, since Hillary Clinton is not accused of assaulting anybody.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:50 PM on October 8, 2016 [19 favorites]

I think the two older Trump sons are reprehensible by their own words and deeds without having to do any guilt by association in regards to them.

I still feel mixed opinions about Ivanka because it seems like she's enabling a horrible person but on the other hand growing up in the Trump household cannot of been particularly good for the long term health of her psyche.

Part of me is still hoping that the traitor in the Trump camp is actually Ivanka and Jared because that would just be too Shakespearean but it's becoming clear that she's only marginally better than the rest of them.

I kind of hope Melania divorces Donald and gets Barron way the hell away from Trump before he resembles his older siblings.
posted by vuron at 5:50 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Welcome to American Political History 201! Today's subject is kinda like Benghazi but with tictacs and pussy.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:51 PM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

How to Move Beyond the Two-Party System

Howard Dean, in the Times yesterday.

It's a start.
posted by rokusan at 5:52 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Well, The Court. Which just got its ninth Justice.

In that scenario, I'd expect it first to go to the DC Circuit, and in the highly likely scenario that it would end up at the SCOTUS, the newly-minted Justice in question would most likely recuse her/himself.
posted by tclark at 5:52 PM on October 8, 2016

the sun set 3h ago

She's got a few thousand comments to catch up on.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:54 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

via

Republicans who say Trump should step down
Former Gov. Christina Todd Whitman of New Jersey
Rep. Barbara Comstock of Virginia
Rep Bradley Byrne of Alabama
Rep. Martha Roby of Alabama
Rep Scott Garrett of New Jersey
Sen. Mike Crapo of Idaho
Rep. Mike Coffman of Colorado
Gov. Dennis Daugaard of South Dakota
Carly Fiorna
Rep. Joe Heck of Nevada
Sen. Cory Gardner of Colorado
Rep. Mia Love of Utah
Rep. Mike Coffman of Colorado
Former Gov. Jon Huntsman Jr. of Utah
Sen. John Thune of South Dakota
Sen. Dan Sullivan of Alaska
Sen. Lisa Murkowski of Alaska
Rep. Barbara Comstock of Virginia
Sen Shelley Moore Capito of W.Virginia
Sen. Deb Fischer of Nebraska
Rep. Ann Wagner of Missouri
Rep. Rodney Davis of Missouri
Rep. Chris Stewart of Utah
Rep. Cresent Hardy of Nevada
Former Sec. State Condoleezza Rice
Rob Engstrom of US Chamber of Congress
Ex-Gov. George Pataki of New York
Rep. Justin Amash of Michigan
Conservative radio host Hugh Hewitt


Republicans who say they won’t vote for Trump
Gov Gary Herbert of Utah
Sen. Jason Chaffetz of Utah
Sen Kelly Ayotte of New Hampshire
Gov Bentley of Alabama
Gov. Sandoval of Nevada
Sen. John McCain of Arizona
Gov. John Kasich of Ohio
Rep. Jeff Fortenberry of Nebraska
Rep. Tom Rooney of Florida
Rep. Erik Paulsen of Minnesota
Rep. Frank LoBiondo of New Jersey
Former Gov. Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota
Former Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger of California


Republicans who never endorsed Trump, want him to step down
Sen. Jeff Flake of Arizona
Sen. Mark Kirk of Illinois
Sen. Mike Lee of Utah
Sen. Ben Sasse of Nebraska
Rep. Charlie Dent of Pennsylvania
Rep. Fred Upton of Michigan
posted by petebest at 5:56 PM on October 8, 2016 [30 favorites]

I am curious, do the billionaire supporters of Trump e.g., Thiel, Mercer or Hubbard really suffer any repercussions? Do their fellow billionaires kind of edge away from them subtly or no longer invited to certain parties or meetings? I was having a conversation with co-worker and how her social circle has actually changed due to Trump supporters. It has shocked and saddened her some of the things she was receiving in her media streams from people she respected, trusted and even loved.
posted by jadepearl at 5:56 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

In my most optimistic imaginings, this insider/outsider dichotomy develops into the moment when the quietly respectable elements of the Republican party finally come to their senses, muster themselves into a coherent bloc, and definitively shove the lunatics and degenerates out into the political wilderness. The root of its disease finally excised, the party is drastically weakened, but the healing can finally begin.

Over the next years, the socialist wing of the Democratic party gains influence, prompting many Blue Dogs to migrate out of the Democratic tent and shore up the weakened Republican body politic. Revitalized, it slowly finds its way back to meaningful and affirmative exercise of power. We then have two parties operating on coherent and defensible principles, each of which are compatible with a truly civilized society.
posted by perspicio at 5:57 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

In the world where the Senate refrains from participating in its duty, you can make a constitutional case to take the silence of the Senate as assent for a nomination. That would be for the courts to decide.

Yeah, there's a non-frivolous argument that at some point Congress's failure to act on a nomination constitutes consent to that nomination. But there's no precedent for it, and there is lots, and lots, and lots of precedent for the opposite, that consent means a majority vote in favor of nomination, and failure to vote is itself an implicit rejection, and the remedy for Congress's failure to act is the political process. The Obama administration could decide to press this case, but it's not at all a slam dunk, and it's a fight that could shift focus away from the thing that the democrats want the country focused on most right now (Trump's horribleness).

I think it's deplorable that the Senate has not been made to pay a larger price for this, and I think it sets a terrible presence, but at this point I think it's best left until after the election. I think at that point democratic leadership will get together and figure out whether they want to go with Garland with a lame duck Congress that will likely be willing to nominate the devil they know, or let Hillary swing for the fences with her own nominee, and use up some of her post-inaugural political capital on a SCJ nomination.
posted by skewed at 5:57 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Welcome to American Political History 201! Today's subject is kinda like Benghazi but with tictacs and pussy.

A lot of people in America and of course outside of the States have been astounded for months that the Republicans nominated the type of guy who would find the deplorable fuck her right in the pussy videobombing nonsense absolutely hilarious. His ignorance and character have been obvious for years. I rather hope history focuses on those who empowered him as well as Trump himself.
posted by juiceCake at 5:58 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

I'd expect it first to go to the DC Circuit, and in the highly likely scenario that it would end up at the SCOTUS, the newly-minted Justice in question would most likely recuse her/himself.

Well, himself. And there's no rule on recusing oneself. He might wait to see if it was a tie vote or not.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:58 PM on October 8, 2016

But there's no precedent for it, and there is lots, and lots, and lots of precedent for the opposite, that consent means a majority vote in favor of nomination

I would contend that it's not actually the opposite -- there's also no precedent for a total lack of a vote. This is really uncharted territory.
posted by tclark at 6:01 PM on October 8, 2016

As a semi-regular gym-goer, this is the sort of locker-room conversation I'm used to:

They're called "Lockers" for a reason. Use a "Lock" please, people... /me opens another one...
posted by mikelieman at 6:03 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

there is lots, and lots, and lots of precedent for the opposite, that consent means a majority vote in favor of nomination, and failure to vote is itself an implicit rejection, and the remedy for Congress's failure to act is the political process

Faced with a recalcitrant Senate and a series of Democratic presidents, they may decide the survival of their own branch requires an exception.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:03 PM on October 8, 2016

I was watching the MST3k episode "The Deadly Mantis" the other day, which was made right after 1996 election, so there were a number of Bob Dole jokes, including his "Where's the outrage" line concerning Clinton.

You've come a looooong way, Bob.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 6:06 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

There's never been a total lack of vote for a SC justice, but judges faililng to get a vote from the senate is historically not uncommon, and it's widely understood as a rejection. This has happened as recently as Obama's nomination of Goodwin Liu, the awesome California judge who the GOP failed to vote on (possibly because they were afraid of elevating his status and priming him to be later nominated as the first asian SCJ). His nomination languished for more than a year before he asked Obama to withdraw his nomination.
posted by skewed at 6:06 PM on October 8, 2016

Well the word at /r/The_Donald is that the tape was not to come out and now Trump is going to take the gloves off and that Bill is a Rapist will be fair game at the debate.

Further along in the thread, there was cheering that Trump is going to win easily.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 6:07 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

So. Thanksgiving dinner tonight and this happened.

Was in the on the other side of the room chatting with my cousins about something not Trump. Mom calls me over to where her, my Dad and Aunts and Uncles were, "Jalli, we're talking about what Trump did, they haven't seen the tape can you please tell them exactly what he said?" Me:" You mean all of it?" Mom:" No the really bad part I can't say it, it's too upsetting." Me:"Um okay are you sure it's pretty bad?" Them: 'Yes' Me: 'blah blah blah (brief set-up) , and when you're a star, you can do anything, like grab them by their pussy'.

"........ "

I mostly remember my 80+ uncle's mouth dropping open.

Not exactly something I would have thought I would ever say in front of them.

Thanks Donald.
posted by Jalliah at 6:07 PM on October 8, 2016 [116 favorites]

And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that."

"I sort of get away with things like that." He sounds like the neighborhood Peeping Tom. Serious and scary as all this is, what's hilarious is how pathetic he sounds. An old, impotent lech spending millions to get a glimpse of women in their underwear.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:09 PM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]

How to Move Beyond the Two-Party System, Howard Dean, in the Times yesterday.

I think this willl require changes larger than Dean envisions.

1. Set up a non-partisan, arms-length (i.e. not ultimately run be elected officials) body to organize and run elections. This organization needs to set up rules for how the election interacts with parties and the criteria to be recognized as a party for each election (i.e. don't just automatically go "ok, these are the two parties...and oh yeah, there's some other guys, but we won't grant them all the privileges we give ourselves).

2. Stop creating a system where ordinary people who are not politicians think of themselves as affiliated with a party. Leave "being a democrat" or "being a republican" to dues-paying people who have chosen to make the affirmative effort to join a (or several, cause how could you stop them?) organization. This means stop having people "register as..." some party. You register to vote. End of story. Once number 1 is done, registering to vote should be much easier, since encouraging voting will be part of the mandate of organization in #1. A party shouldn't be a part of one's identity, it should just be a group you voted for in the most recent election because they earned your vote this time. Make them earn your vote every time, without any assumption that you "are X" and thus will vote X, barring some weird exceptional circumstance.

3. Stop having the government involved in party business. Parties want to choose candidates? Of course they do. Good for them. Let them do it themselves. They can have their members (like actual members who decided to join the party, not just people who selected that party from a limited list when asked what they wanted to "register as") vote. They can hold a raffle. They can have hereditary party kinds who run for president and appoint every other candidate in the country. Whatever. They're private organizations. They can do what they want. What they can't do is have the government pay to organize and run the selection of their candidates, since they are a private organization and this is their private business. Most parties already do select their own candidates. It's outrageous that politicians give this enormous privilege to the two parties from which they are predominantly drawn. This has the added benefit of reducing the length of the election the length of the actual election, not this two year torture.

There are already multiple parties. You want them to actually make a difference, then stop granting ridiculous favours at the public financial and emotional expense (not to mention at the expense of healthy democracy) to two parties and none of the others.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

If the legitimacy of a stonewalled appointment were to go before SCOTUS, I'd think that if the case in favor was reasonably legally sound, it would have five easy votes in favor: the liberal half of the court and Roberts.

After all, it's Roberts's court. Partisanship be damned, he can't be happy about having its effectiveness diminished and its work spread over a smaller cohort.
posted by jackbishop at 6:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Republicans who say they won’t vote for Trump

Ted Cruz has got to be smashing his face against a wall, non-stop. After going through everything to be the one stalwart who "stood up for what he believed" only to fold right before Trump imploded. I hope that "I told you so" he's had to swallow lodges in his throat for a long time.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]

I put a rope around my ankle and jumped into r/the_donald out of sheer morbid curiosity this afternoon.

The delusion is sad but what's kind of creepy and gross is that they see themselves as a volunteer campaign force - talking about what they needed to 'spread' on social media and et cetera. *Shudder*
posted by ftm at 6:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Was in the on the other side of the room chatting with my cousins about something not Trump. Mom calls me over to where her, my Dad and Aunts and Uncles were, "Jalli, we're talking about what Trump did, they haven't seen the tape can you please tell them exactly what he said?" Me:" You mean all of it?" Mom:" No the really bad part I can't say it, it's too upsetting." Me:"Um okay are you sure it's pretty bad?" Them: 'Yes' Me: 'blah blah blah (brief set-up) , and when you're a star, you can do anything, like grab them by their pussy'.

Yeah, in the past 3 days, my mom has called me to ask "What's the C-word?" (and then "what does that mean?) and "What bad word starts with P?" Thanks, Donald.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]

CNN chyron now "SOURCES: GOP MULLS SCENARIO OF PENCE QUITTING TICKET"

Heh. I'll bet.
posted by petebest at 6:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Yeah, I had to say that word when talking to my 13 year old about what trump said, and subsequently did. I segued into a conversation about consent and personal space and how women can feel when a man does certain things, and so that was cool, but goddamn y'all, I had to say the p word to my son because of who the republicans are running for president.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 6:14 PM on October 8, 2016 [47 favorites]

politico.com: Clinton team girds for all-out assault — "With little to lose, Trump expected to tear into both Clintons at town hall debate."

The bombshell Donald Trump video that surfaced Friday has so dramatically altered expectations for Sunday’s town hall debate that one Democrat close to Bill and Hillary Clinton had a new view of what may unfold in St. Louis: “Expect Armageddon.”

posted by Celsius1414 at 6:14 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

Jalliah - you've driven home to me the fact that my niece is eight, and that means she is probably just now starting to be aware of presidents and elections to the point that she'll remember the shit that goes down.

Okay - y'all, my niece is an adorable little girl, a little diva into bling and fashion, and she also loves cooking and golf and camping and puppet shows, and for her sake I'm asking y'all to please get the vote out and elect Hilary so the very first election she remembers isn't about "and that's when the country went to shit".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:15 PM on October 8, 2016 [24 favorites]

My mom was watching MSNBC, which bleeped the video. She, too, requested explanation.

This seems oddly fair though, given what she had to explain to me in the 90s as a result of Bill Clinton.
posted by zachlipton at 6:16 PM on October 8, 2016 [30 favorites]

>And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that."

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you... the President of the United States.

He's seen everything.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 6:16 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

I'm still trying to figure why this revelation surprises me.

Like, it makes total sense, yet still.
posted by Annika Cicada at 6:17 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

The LOLs have spread to Israel's Knesset (twitter of Merav Michaeli, Chair of the Caucus for Female Knesset Members and member of the Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee).
posted by sallybrown at 6:18 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

I'm not so much looking forward to tomorrow's "debate" anymore. The unbelievable amount of shit this woman has had to put up with for her whole life, really, and it is going to be so ugly tomorrow.
posted by tzikeh at 6:20 PM on October 8, 2016 [25 favorites]

House GOP conference call scheduled for Monday morning. (Politico)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:20 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

This seems oddly fair though, given what she had to explain to me in the 90s as a result of Bill Clinton.

I guess I should send Ken Starr a thank-you note for explaining blow jobs to 12-year-old me. Except not.
posted by sallybrown at 6:22 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

I wasn't planning on listening to tomorrow's debate, but now I think I will. It's not very often you get to witness the historic unmaking of a man.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 6:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

Monday? Must be really important to call the Tuesday-to-Thursday club to order on an off-day.
posted by infinitewindow at 6:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

I like that we're not worried about her doing well. Like, it's a given that she's practiced, professional, and will give him another whupping as he so richly deserves.

HRC for the POTUS c'mon!
hep! hep! c'mon!

goot gawd
posted by petebest at 6:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

I'm not so much looking forward to tomorrow's "debate" anymore.

She's been prepping her answer to the things Donald is going to dredge up since probably 1999, 2000, before her run for Senate? She's been polishing that grain of sand in her shell for 16 years, and tomorrow she's going to serve up an exquisite pearl of an answer. I'm sure she'd rather avoid it, but in a way it will be nice to finally unleash that, after all the strategy and work that's probably gone into it.
posted by sallybrown at 6:24 PM on October 8, 2016 [39 favorites]

The unbelievable amount of shit this woman has had to put up with for her whole life, really, and it is going to be so ugly tomorrow.

I agree. I wouldn't want my worst enemy to have to share the stage with that man. Much less the next President of the United States of America.
posted by valkane at 6:26 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Yeah that conference call will basically be the following:

"Look troops we've clearly lost the presidency and our hold on the Senate is looking bad but we have to fight them for every last seat in the House. If we can just hold onto our majority we can retool and come out swinging in 2018 and regain some of what we lost.

In the meantime we strongly advise deflecting any questions you get about Trump or having your House aides pretend that you are unavailable for comment right now"
posted by vuron at 6:27 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Hillary Clinton was grilled by hostile Republicans for 12 straight hours over Benghazi and made them all look like bumbling amateurs. I'm thinking she'll be just fine.
posted by Justinian at 6:27 PM on October 8, 2016 [54 favorites]

". . . And for the love of god don't do or say anything to anyone that would make it worse. Looking at you, Steve King."
posted by Spathe Cadet at 6:28 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

donnie probably thinks this song is about him.
posted by vrakatar at 6:30 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Here's a thing that caught my attention:

@JoshuaGreen: 1. Here’s why I think things will soon get even worse for GOP

the whole thread is worth reading, but here's the key point:

16. Trump’s survival plan thus entails portraying Hillary as enabler of sexual violence—name I heard is Kathy Shelton, 12-y.o. rape survivor

17. Hillary was appointed to defend her assailant (more here: http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-freed-child-rapist-laughed-about-it/ …)

19. So if you wonder how things could get worse for GOP (+ America), litigating rape of 12 y.o. in a presidential debate may be the answer.
posted by Existential Dread at 6:30 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

How does that make it worse for the GOP?
posted by tzikeh at 6:32 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Rebecca Cohen ‏@GynoStar:

"Men feel entitled to women's bodies."
"Not all men!"
"Trump says he's entitled to women's bodies."
"But all men talk like that."
posted by bluecore at 6:34 PM on October 8, 2016 [108 favorites]

Stern outtake:

"Donald asked me during the commercials — and I don't think you mind me saying it — he says to me, 'so you don't get it on with anybody?," Stern says. "I said 'I'm really faithful to my wife' and he goes 'you're kidding? Really? What's that all about?'

"I can say to Howard's wife, that's true," Trump responds. "He did say that to me. It's great."
Trump adds, "I was actually faithful to my wife for many years, until I realized the marriage wasn't gonna work."

Like King David. Or whatever.
posted by petebest at 6:35 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

19. So if you wonder how things could get worse for GOP (+ America), litigating rape of 12 y.o. in a presidential debate may be the answer.

"Can you tell everyone about your October 14th Court Conference Mr. Trump?"
posted by mikelieman at 6:35 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

don't just automatically go "ok, these are the two parties...and oh yeah, there's some other guys, but we won't grant them all the privileges we give ourselves

This is not a major force inhibiting minor parties. Ballot access is relatively trivial to obtain and, once obtained, even more trivial to maintain.

Stop creating a system where ordinary people who are not politicians think of themselves as affiliated with a party.

This is really not the way that partisanship or even democracy work in any democracy, few-party or many-party. Political positions are not randomly assigned to parties, and you can expect voters to notice and remember that (say) the SPD better represents their concerns than the CDU. And you can only prevent parties from actively fostering those attachments with grotesque authoritarian measures.

This means stop having people "register as..." some party. You register to vote. End of story.

Around half the US states do this already. They still have parties.

You want them to actually make a difference, then stop granting ridiculous favours at the public financial and emotional expense (not to mention at the expense of healthy democracy) to two parties and none of the others.

Minor parties don't remain parties because of "ridiculous favors" to the Democratic and Republican parties. They remain minor parties because (a) they have unpopular positions, (b) they are terrible at organizing, and (c) they run terrible candidates. Stein and Johnson are just laughably abysmal, and they're near the top of the heap in terms of minor parties.

The most you can get here is that there is an endogeneity cycle -- minor parties are terrible at winning elections, so people who would be good candidates and share some of their positions affiliate with the Ds or Rs because they want to actually win, which leaves the minor parties with their terrible candidates, which means minor parties are awful at winning elections...
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:36 PM on October 8, 2016 [22 favorites]

Yeah, in the past 3 days, my mom has called me to ask "What's the C-word?"... and "What bad word starts with P?

Your mom is doing a crossword puzzle in Penthouse.
posted by rokusan at 6:37 PM on October 8, 2016 [55 favorites]

"The Civil Court case regarding your alleged sexual assault of a 13 year old girl, Mr. Trump.".

PLEASE don't throw me in the brier patch, Mr. Trump, PLEASE DON'T...
posted by mikelieman at 6:37 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Meanwhile in North Carolina: Of the authors and sponsors of HB2, the infamously extremist anti-LGBT law ostensibly drafted to protect women from sexual predators, none have withdrawn their support of a self-admitted sexual predator for President.

Your daily reminder that the downticket ballot matters too.
posted by at by at 6:37 PM on October 8, 2016 [85 favorites]

Wait what, they are trying to say that Hillary Clinton is an enabler because she was a court appointed defense attorney for a defendant that later pled guilty rather than go to trial?

Wow how is that supposed to work?
posted by vuron at 6:39 PM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

I'm a Canadian but I'll be watching the debate tomorrow, hoping something bad doesn't happen. Most of my friends here are agog, no, stunned at what's going on. There's a Canadian band called Wintersleep who's done a song called "Amerika"(YT):

...What am I gonna do?
I can't survive on my Amerika
If the worst is true
Is it just a waste of time?

What am I trying to find?
Are you alive, oh my Amerika?
Perennial with the Earth
And freedom, love, and law, and life...
posted by storybored at 6:40 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Just appearing on howard stern should be a "you don't get to be president" disqualification.
posted by valkane at 6:40 PM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]

Sweet Jeebus he's now picking a fight with Robert De Niro.

That's not the real Trump account.

Please... I just need a few more minutes with the image of Robert de Niro kicking the shit out of Donald Trump in front of Trump Tower while the Secret Service forms a ring around them, like it's the climactic scene from Gladiator.
posted by fatbird at 6:40 PM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

Wait what, they are trying to say that Hillary Clinton is an enabler because she was a court appointed defense attorney for a defendant that later pled guilty rather than go to trial?

Wow how is that supposed to work?

It's an applause-line at the rallies. He just says it, and The Base claps.

You would be correct to doubt the effectiveness when not preaching to the choir. /me makes popcorn and pours bourbon...
posted by mikelieman at 6:41 PM on October 8, 2016

even if i legitimately wanted to i could not watch the debate tomorrow. trump's hideousness, his vileness, it's so viscerally repulsive to me that just thinking about having to watch for untold hours his disgusting gross bloated face or hear his sneering whining vomitous voice gives me those same horrifying full body cringe-shivers you get right before an intense norovirus explosion from both ends. he is literally the most repugnant worthless smear of filth that has ever before in my lifetime masqueraded as human and even acknowledging his existence in this comment is close to making me puke.
posted by poffin boffin at 6:42 PM on October 8, 2016 [43 favorites]

I'm finding it therapeutic to dip into the nearby Chuck Norris thread between refreshes in this one - helps me keep things in perspective.
posted by parki at 6:43 PM on October 8, 2016

[Fake]
Trump: Hitler had some good ideas.
Some Evangelicals: He's just creating controversy to draw attention.

Trump: Our nation will worship Baphomet if I am elected.
Some Evangelicals: He's just trying to appeal undecideds.

Trump: Every American will give sacrifice their first born child to make this nation great again.
Some Evangelicals: He just means the children of lie-berals.

Trump: I pledge to start an atomic war in my first 100 days in office, the only question is with who.
Some Evangelicals: Just think of the Supreme Court justices he'll nominate.
posted by drezdn at 6:44 PM on October 8, 2016 [27 favorites]

I have to work monday but I'll tune in- donnie might not show, you know, he can always have a health issue- so if you do drink bourbon, stock up or I'll drink it all. There will be no bourbon in the stores.
posted by vrakatar at 6:45 PM on October 8, 2016

@BillDixonish

Remember when Donald Trump complained about his mic not working? The universe has a sense of humor.
posted by Tarumba at 6:45 PM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]

just need a few more minutes with the image of Robert de Niro kicking the shit out of Donald Trump in front of Trump Tower while the Secret Service forms a ring around them, like it's the climactic scene from Gladiator.

I wonder if Donnie understands Teamwork
posted by mikelieman at 6:45 PM on October 8, 2016

Why does he think attacking Bill Clinton as a rapist or cheater or whatever means anything? Bill's not the one running for president.
Plus he's got no ground to stand on when it comes to accusing someone else of being a creepy perv.
posted by Liquidwolf at 6:46 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Rob Portman is out. Will be writing in Mike Pence. In Ohio that might just be a bonus instead of a liability with the base.
posted by Talez at 6:47 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Ted Cruz has got to be smashing his face against a wall, non-stop.

That's my favorite part of this so far, really.
posted by Diablevert at 6:47 PM on October 8, 2016 [55 favorites]

Wow how is that supposed to work?

It got some traction here during the primaries. I think the sad fact is that, while almost everyone agrees that even the most heinous criminals deserve a defense, people don't much like the people who defend heinous criminals. I think she could just say that this was a very difficult case for her, that she was glad that they ultimately achieved a good result, and that it was one of the things that made her realize that she didn't want to be a criminal defense attorney. And why are you trying to change the subject from your own egregious misconduct related to women?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:48 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Smokin' Joe tweets:

“The words are demeaning. Such behavior is an abuse of power. It’s not lewd. It’s sexual assault,”

Damn straight.
posted by petebest at 6:49 PM on October 8, 2016 [19 favorites]

16. Trump’s survival plan thus entails portraying Hillary as enabler of sexual violence—name I heard is Kathy Shelton, 12-y.o. rape survivor

These are the kinds of things Trump could say about the Kathy Shelton case (Daily Mail). Shelton is vehemently not with her. It really is a very sad story, and one that Donald will not hesitate to exploit, like the disgusting soulless monster he is.
posted by sallybrown at 6:49 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Why does he think attacking Bill Clinton as a rapist or cheater or whatever means anything?

Because there are a lot of Republicans who are desperate to be reminded why they should vote against Hillary Clinton, and that's a good enough excuse for them.
posted by Etrigan at 6:50 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

(The Shelton case reminds of the Broadderick case in the sense of the victim's fixating on Hillary Clinton's role to an intense degree, as if she is to blame more than the men who raped them.)
posted by sallybrown at 6:51 PM on October 8, 2016 [30 favorites]

I can't think of any way that tomorrow night's debate can swing any voters over to Trump who aren't part of his base already. Hillary Clinton is the epitome of calm, cool, collected, and prepared. Donnie is...none of these things. Look how he melted down into ranting word salad at the last debate! Now that he's bigly on the defensive, I wouldn't be surprised if he actually exploded onstage in a cloud of fake tan and entrails.

I'd be shocked if Hillary didn't come out smelling like a rose, while Donnie is having an incoherent meltdown.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 6:51 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

The whole "Bill did it too" justification is especially annoying, because it's like, "Bill did it, and you appointed a special prosecutor and Impeached him over it. You emphatically stated that he should not be president. You should be saying the same about Trump, not excusing him because 'Bill did it too' and acting like it shouldn't be a big deal. You were the ones who made it a big deal."

That sort of sounds like I think it wasn't a big deal for Bill to have done it (at least with Monica, it was consensual), but my intent here is to underline the hypocrisy of "It's only bad when a Democrat does it, and it stops being bad if a Democrat did it first".
posted by Autumnheart at 6:51 PM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]

even the most heinous criminals deserve a defense

And that it is constitutionally mandated. And that's the way the justice system is created to function. Quiet Donnie, the adults are talking.

Donald, you've been in a lot of lawsuits but have you ever been in any criminal lawsuits? Hmmmmmmmmm?? Did you know you have a right to an attorney?
posted by petebest at 6:52 PM on October 8, 2016

The Shelton case is nothing. Clinton was a defense lawyer. Having the right to a defense is one of the most fundamental aspects of a working democracy.
posted by Justinian at 6:52 PM on October 8, 2016 [19 favorites]

I keep thinking of Chaucer and "The Miller's Tale."

Whil that her housbonde was at Oseneye,
As clerkes ben ful subtile and ful queynte;
And prively he caughte hire by the queynte,
And seyde, "Ywis, but if ich have my wille,
For deerne love of thee, lemman, I spille."

I reread Canterbury Tales when I was department chair so I could see what my teachers were teaching the boys, and that's when I finally realized the thing was full of sexual assault.
posted by Peach at 6:52 PM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

1,306 comments, 14 hours.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:52 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

93-year-old Bob Dole, standing by the Republican nominee.

Has anyone confirmed that this is actually Bob Dole and not Norm Macdonald in old-man makeup?

The fact that he referred to himself in the first person instead of the third is rather suspicious.
posted by JackFlash at 6:53 PM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]

1,306 comments, 14 hours.

To the mods reading: you are always appreciated, but especially in this insane time. It's a testament to your efforts that these threads go as smoothly as they do.

Just 30 more days. Oh, and probably at least a couple weeks of fallout and general aftermath...
posted by escape from the potato planet at 6:56 PM on October 8, 2016 [56 favorites]

Hopefully the Clinton camp is saving some more damaging tape for after the town hall, just in case.
posted by sallybrown at 6:57 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

valkane: Just appearing on howard stern should be a "you don't get to be president" disqualification.

To be fair, I'd argue Stern's done the second most important interview(s) of this election in terms of revealing who Trump really is (Iraq stance, assorted misogyny & creepiness) next to Billy Bush's accidental journalism. Compare that with Jimmy Fallon's "muss up your hair and make you seem like you aren't a monster" interview, and I say I'd rather see a nominee go on his show than many others.

Stern is also a vocal Hillary supporter and offered to have her on for a longform interview so his fans might see her in a different light. He's good at getting people to relax, and she's a policy wonk who's better at making her case in detail rather than in soundbites, so I think it might've helped her campaign, but isn't necessary due to the current Trump implosion.
posted by bluecore at 6:57 PM on October 8, 2016 [43 favorites]

Like...all of this shit is crazy, right? I mean, I just took a step back, and this shit is not normal.


It's not just me, right? I'm pretty drunk right now, but somebody tell me that this is totally not normal. As in, we took a turn-off from normal a very long time ago, and we have been driving through fucked up for a while, and it's not just me. I mean, on the one hand, this is very enthralling, and even sort of amusing, but I feel like I should be way more horrified than I even am right now. Like horrified horrified. Weird homeless person with the can full of maggots in Prince of Darkness horrified.

Somebody tell me I'm not the only one.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:58 PM on October 8, 2016 [69 favorites]

Are you suggesting that our failure to maintain a 100 comment per hour ratio is somehow inadequate?

Fear not true believer SNL will be coming up in a few hours and that's certain to increase the post rate at least for a little while.
posted by vuron at 6:58 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

Donald Trump is the Tim Tebow of Presidential candidates and Hillary Clinton is Drew Brady. Tomorrow debate is the 2011-12 playoffs.
posted by humanfont at 6:58 PM on October 8, 2016

Please... I just need a few more minutes with the image of Robert de Niro kicking the shit out of Donald Trump in front of Trump Tower while the Secret Service forms a ring around them, like it's the climactic scene from Gladiator.

WRONG MOVIE
posted by pashdown at 6:59 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Drew Brady?
posted by Justinian at 7:00 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Yeah Tom Brady's little known and less accomplished twin brother.
posted by vuron at 7:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

I dunno. The ickiest tape might be Trump pimping his own 22-year-old daughter on the Howard Stern show. You would think that would push a lot of family-first people right over the edge of the cliff.
posted by JackFlash at 7:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Cooper Manning
posted by drezdn at 7:02 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Okay one more and that's it

@Shvartacus

This election is like if your friends pick dinner and 3 vote pizza and 2 vote "kill and eat you". Even if pizza wins, there's a big problem.
posted by Tarumba at 7:02 PM on October 8, 2016 [158 favorites]

About that Shelton case: Isn't there some video that is misconstrued as "Hillary laughing at getting him off"?
posted by DanSachs at 7:02 PM on October 8, 2016

Wait what, they are trying to say that Hillary Clinton is an enabler because she was a court appointed defense attorney for a defendant that later pled guilty rather than go to trial?

Wow how is that supposed to work?

Yes. they've been explictly claiming this about Tim Kaine as well, because of his death penalty work. Holding lawyers responsible for the crimes of their clients is a direct attack on the 6th amendment and the right to counsel, and is fucking disgusting. You almost cannot imagine a more un-American mindset. But we already seen Trump doesn't believe in the right to counsel, or due process itself, so again, no one should be surprised. They say this shit in the light of day, for everyone to hear.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:03 PM on October 8, 2016 [50 favorites]

It's not just me, right?

No. And all occurring against the backdrop of our planet melting down.
posted by sallybrown at 7:03 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

"but my intent here is to underline the hypocrisy of "It's only bad when a Democrat does it, and it stops being bad if a Democrat did it first"."

I think what they're actually claiming is, "Democrats said it was a partisan witchhunt when we impeached Bill Clinton, so Democrats claiming to be upset about Trump are hypocrites because they're just engaging in a partisan witchhunt!" It's not that they don't recognize the hypocracy -- it's that they think it's on the Democrats' side.

"You almost cannot imagine a more un-American mindset. "

John Adams defended the redcoats who perpetrated the Boston Massacre, for Christ's sake! Everybody gets a defense!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:08 PM on October 8, 2016 [38 favorites]

It's not just me, right?

No, I had a similar moment during the first debate when I saw Trump standing in front of Hillary and for a second I wasn't sure if I was awake or not.
posted by Tarumba at 7:08 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

I dunno. The ickiest tape might be Trump pimping his own 22-year-old daughter on the Howard Stern show. You would think that would push a lot of family-first people right over the edge of the cliff.

How could Trump think that this stuff wouldn't be dug up. He's been saying and doing sleazy things for decades and he thinks none of that is going to be used against him when he wants to be the fucking President!?
They knew Bill Clinton took a hit off a joint in college and that was dredged up against him. Which makes think.. how many kilos of coke do you think Trump has snorted in his time?
posted by Liquidwolf at 7:08 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

About that Shelton case: Isn't there some video that is misconstrued as "Hillary laughing at getting him off"?

The right-wing meme is Hillary laughing that she got a guilty man off using her sophisticated big city lawyer ways to trick the hick rubes of AR.

Of course he had a right to counsel, and she of course had an obligation to do her best work to defend him. But in my experience, many non-lawyers don't view these principles as sacrosanct the way lawyers do.
posted by sallybrown at 7:09 PM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

Don't you remember the 2011 playoffs when Drew Brady hit that game winner right over the Green monster. He really put the biscuit in the basket that night amirite? It was a slam dunk for the ages I tell ya. One of the finest moments in Seltics history.
posted by humanfont at 7:10 PM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]

It's not just me, right?

No. And all occurring against the backdrop of our planet melting down.

This is not a coincidence. Internalized panic at an unknown and unpromising future is, I think, a key part of all this perverse "change" that's happening around the world. Global Warming, the rise of technology, automation, and the internet, with the increasing concentration of wealth and, basically, safety in fewer and fewer hands. A winning combination for widespread fear and uncertainty.
posted by gusottertrout at 7:10 PM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]

1,306 comments, 14 hours.

New FPP for tomorrow's debate.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:10 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

Isn't there some video that is misconstrued as "Hillary laughing at getting him off"?

A recording of a phone call in which she laughs about the legal maneuvers (getting evidence removed because it had been mishandled) and the uselessness of polygraph tests, apparently. Snopes has the recording and a number of details, I haven't listened to it myself because it's pretty crappy audio quality.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 7:10 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

NYTimes: More Than 150 Republican Leaders Don’t Support Donald Trump. Here’s When They Reached Their Breaking Point.
posted by peeedro at 7:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

No, I had a similar moment during the first debate when I saw Trump standing in front of Hillary and for a second I wasn't sure if I was awake or not.

like im starting to wonder if maybe possibly perhapsily potentially there is in fact an old testament type god and oh man are we in trouble

if only we'd all kept kosher but noooo
posted by poffin boffin at 7:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [17 favorites]

look what you shrimp eaters have done
posted by poffin boffin at 7:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [51 favorites]

The ickiest tape...
For the absolutely ickiest correlation, take Trump saying "if Ivanka weren't my daughter" and add "I can do this to ANY woman I want". Because he can.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:13 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

More from across the globe: Golden Dawn declares support for Donald Trump as "true patriot"

goody
posted by sallybrown at 7:14 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

like im starting to wonder if maybe possibly perhapsily potentially there is in fact an old testament type god and oh man are we in trouble

David had five hundred concubines. We're good.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:16 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Trump adds, "I was actually faithful to my wife for many years, until I realized the marriage wasn't gonna work."

I love how he wants a cookie for achieving the minimum decent and frequently legal standard of behavior. You were a fairweather friend to your spouse? You opened a Palm Beach golf course that wasn't openly racist? Your properties are ADA-compliant? You want us to applaud for this weak shit?
posted by jackbishop at 7:16 PM on October 8, 2016 [23 favorites]

I'm skipping ahead a little bit to inform everyone that we're forming a line here in Indiana to piss on the grave of Mike Pence's political career.
posted by double block and bleed at 7:17 PM on October 8, 2016 [54 favorites]

I'm kind of hoping that Trump will drag Stern with him as he loses credibility. He's a misogynist slime bag, and while I support his First Amendment rights he's responsible for making misogyny acceptable in the greater culture. Of course his sins get waved off because he's a ~good interviewer.
posted by pxe2000 at 7:18 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

like im starting to wonder if maybe possibly perhapsily potentially there is in fact an old testament type god and oh man are we in trouble

if only we'd all kept kosher but noooo

*spits out mouthful of bacon sandwich*


*surreptitiously reaches down to plate and places bite back in mouth*
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 7:19 PM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

The audio with "Hillary laughing" exists. She is talking about what a stressful, miserable case it was, and how unpleasant it was for her to serve in that capacity. At one point she says that her client took a polygraph and passed it, and she says something like "which forever destroyed my faith in polygraphs" with a desultory chuckle.

So, that's it. That's what they have. HRC talking about how difficult it was to defend a child rapist, how glad she was when he pled guilty, and using his guilt as evidence that lie detector tests are laughably inaccurate.
posted by KathrynT at 7:19 PM on October 8, 2016 [125 favorites]

Mark Evanier blogs the best of his tweets (which is GOOD because I DON'T WANT TO BE EXPOSED TO TWITTER).

His latest:
John McCain withdraws support for Trump, says "I like men who don't get captured…on tape."
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:19 PM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]

John Adams defended the redcoats who perpetrated the Boston Massacre, for Christ's sake! Everybody gets a defense!

Mefi's own Alexander Hamilton defended Loyalists .
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

The people who are rescinding their endorsements, this is just the Pontius Pilate move, washing their hands of something distasteful, which might hurt them in their communities, or at home, or with strangers on the street. It is just a move. We will see if anything changes. The Republican party is not typically the party of change. They all looked themselves in the mirror, the day after the convention, and did not do this then, basically nothing has changed about Trump since he first came on the scene. So let us not admire these hand washers/wringers too much.
posted by Oyéah at 7:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

Tangental - is there a way to stream tonight's SNL online if I've given up my cable TV subscription but still have internet through that cable company? I really, REALLY wanna see what SNL is going to do this week.

(I still think the cold open should be a straightforward performance of "The Reynolds Pamphlet.")
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

A lot of parents are having to give their children the Trump talk tonight.
posted by Flashman at 7:24 PM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

Seconding a request for a good way to stream SNL without a cable TV subscription.
posted by stolyarova at 7:25 PM on October 8, 2016

It's not just Shabbat, it's Shabbat shuva, the sabbath between rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. Jared is presumably meditating on the sins he committed in the last year, including the sins of (I've deleted a few for length):

For the sin which we have committed before You under duress or willingly.

And for the sin which we have committed before You by hard-heartedness.

For the sin which we have committed before You inadvertently.

And for the sin which we have committed before You with an utterance of the lips.

For the sin which we have committed before You with immorality.

And for the sin which we have committed before You openly or secretly.

For the sin which we have committed before You with knowledge and with deceit.

And for the sin which we have committed before You through speech.

For the sin which we have committed before You by deceiving a fellow man.

And for the sin which we have committed before You by improper thoughts.

For the sin which we have committed before You by a gathering of lewdness.

And for the sin which we have committed before You by verbal [insincere] confession.

For the sin which we have committed before You by disrespect for parents and teachers.

And for the sin which we have committed before You intentionally or unintentionally.

For the sin which we have committed before You by using coercion.

For the sin which we have committed before You by impurity of speech.

And for the sin which we have committed before You by foolish talk.

For the sin which we have committed before You with the evil inclination (gossip).

For the sin which we have committed before You by false denial and lying.

And for the sin which we have committed before You by a bribe-taking or a bribe-giving hand.

For the sin which we have committed before You by scoffing.

And for the sin which we have committed before You by evil talk [about another].

For the sin which we have committed before You in business dealings.

For the sin which we have committed before You by [taking or giving] interest and by usury.

And for the sin which we have committed before You by a haughty demeanor.

For the sin which we have committed before You by the prattle of our lips.

And for the sin which we have committed before You by a glance of the eye.

For the sin which we have committed before You with proud looks.

And for the sin which we have committed before You in passing judgment.

For the sin which we have committed before You by scheming against a fellowman.

And for the sin which we have committed before You by a begrudging eye.

For the sin which we have committed before You by frivolity.

And for the sin which we have committed before You by obduracy.

For the sin which we have committed before You by running to do evil.

And for the sin which we have committed before You by tale-bearing.

For the sin which we have committed before You by swearing in vain.

And for the sin which we have committed before You by causeless hatred.

For the sin which we have committed before You by embezzlement.

And for the sin which we have committed before You by a confused heart.

These are repeated 10 times during the high holiday services. Jared might be having a tiny crisis.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:26 PM on October 8, 2016 [68 favorites]

From Robert Samuels at the Post:

And then came the video. It did not show the words of some pundit with an agenda, nor did it contain the foggy recollections of a former employee or business rival. No, Newton said, this was him, undeniably him, so casually acting like “a vile man who disrespects women and the sanctity of marriage.”

It was too much.

Newton wondered: Had she tricked herself into supporting him? How many more chances could he get?

The fever is breaking.
posted by sallybrown at 7:26 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

somebody tell me that this is totally not normal. As in, we took a turn-off from normal a very long time ago, and we have been driving through fucked up for a while, and it's not just me.

I've been feeling like the computer that runs our simulation suffered something like a segfault or kernel panic in late 2015, mayyyybe early 2016, and nothing's been right since then.
posted by Andrhia at 7:27 PM on October 8, 2016 [23 favorites]

Seconding a request for a good way to stream SNL without a cable TV subscription.

If you don't need to see it live, it should be up on Hulu very early in the morning.
posted by drezdn at 7:29 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

From Danielle Paquette at the Post:

The 6-year-old girl turned to her mother and asked, “What does it mean to grab somebody by the p---y?”

posted by sallybrown at 7:29 PM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

I'm really bummed out because Alicia Machado was posting in Spanish on twitter, and this Venezuelan guy responds with something on the lines of "what are you doing in the US, you will always be an outsider, they will never accept you", and I started to write a response several times but I didn't know how to explain that for every Trump supporter there are so many welcoming people who want us here without sounding like I have Stockholm syndrome or like I sold out to "yanqui" imperialism.

It just pisses me off because most of Latin America already has an historic tendency to dislike the US and Trump has confirmed the most extreme opinions they had. In a few months he undid a good portion of the good will Obama built.
posted by Tarumba at 7:32 PM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]

To be fair, I'd argue Stern's done the second most important interview(s) of this election

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree, because I would argue that howard stern is second in line behind trump in the human garbage sweepstakes. But you defend him all you want. Just make sure you're not a woman, because then he might make you let him fart in your face. You know, as part of his amazing interviewing skills.
posted by valkane at 7:35 PM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]

The 6-year-old girl turned to her mother and asked, “What does it mean to grab somebody by the p---y?”

Someone on my FB feed reported her little son saying, "They were talking on the news about somebody grabbing a lady's privates?" I can't find it again to make sure I wasn't seeing something regurgitated from elsewhere, and usually I'm not one for political kid anecdotes, but that breaks my heart. A little boy, still too young to understand what in ten years a lot of other boys will tell him he can try to do.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:35 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

SNL's YouTube channel
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:37 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

meme: #protectyourpssy
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:39 PM on October 8, 2016

Post is on a roll: from Shaun R. Harper:

The horrifying things Trump said in that video are comments I’ve heard from male friends of mine since I was a teenager. As a young boy, I witnessed older men appraise women’s bodies and heard them say what they would do sexually (for example, “Look at the ass on that one” and “I would bang her all night long”). Truth is, I have known Trumps most of my life. . . . they are my friends, my fraternity brothers and so many other men with whom I routinely interact. I understand now, more than ever before, that letting them talk this way about women makes me just as sexist. By excusing their words and actions, I share some responsibility for rape, marital infidelity and other awful things that men do. I want other men to recognize this, too — not only because they have mothers, wives, sisters, aunts or daughters – but because sexism hurts all women and men in our society.

posted by sallybrown at 7:41 PM on October 8, 2016 [41 favorites]

I am relishing all the schadenfreude of seeing Trump's campaign implode, and have discussed it with all my Democratic friends... It sounds like there's worse to come. ALL THE POPCORN!

On a lighter note, I just came back from running errands in the blue mountain fastnesses of Pasadena and Altadena. Yard sign alert! 6 signs for HRC, including a new Clinton/Kaine sign at the hardcore Bernie supporter’s house on the corner. It must have just arrived from the campaign shop (I didn't have any delay getting my swag, but I thought of all the backups I heard from this thread). There was one Gary Johnson sign. When I saw it, I said, “oh, you’re so unrealistic and white!"

The ONLY Republican signs I saw driving around were signs for Rep. politician Jack Orswell, and one sign on Altadena Dr. that said “Pray for America” by someone who probably believes in the bullshit false equivalency meme. So there's that.
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 7:41 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Isn't there some video that is misconstrued as "Hillary laughing at getting him off"?

Are we still doing phrasing?
posted by rokusan at 7:41 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Turmoil Reigns Inside Trump Tower (Político)
posted by box at 7:42 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

@costareports: The people at Trump Tower today, per mulitiple sources...

Christie
Giuliani
Priebus
Bannon
Conway
Don Trump Jr.
Bossie
Hicks

I don't exactly feel sorry for Kellyanne, but that's a pretty repulsive group to be stuck with all day in a conference room.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:43 PM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

Have you considered going to a local bar with a tv and watching with others.
posted by humanfont at 7:49 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

if only we'd all kept kosher but noooo

"Rabbi! On this day of all days, you're eating oysters?!"
"And why not? 'Yom Kippur' has an 'R' in it."
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:50 PM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]

This link appears to get me an NBC east coast feed at this moment. It's a sketchy streaming site and I provide no warranty. I certainly wouldn't use it without adblock and antivirus, and/or in a secure VM.
posted by zachlipton at 7:51 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

If you have a cable modem for internet chances are you have at least a minimal version of basic cable including the broadcast networks, even if you don't pay for cable TV or have a cable box. For a lot of cable systems it takes an extra step to disable this so it just doesn't really happen. If your TV accepts a cable on the back that's the same as the one that goes into your cable modem, just plug it in and see what happens.

On another note, I just noticed the debate Sunday has two moderators. Maybe I'm just being forgetful but this seems like a new and unnecessary twist. I guess we needed another person to awkwardly attempt to get the candidates to stop talking.
posted by feloniousmonk at 7:51 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

So basically the entire Robert and Rebekah Mercer operation is involved in trying to prop up Trump at this time. Bannon, Conway and Bossie are all pretty much Mercer employees if the political profiles are correct.

I wonder if this is the old money Republicans vs the New Money Republicans at work.

It's pretty clear that the various LDS leaders (Huntsman, Romney, etc) are definitely coming down hard against Trump and it's looking like the Koch Brothers are focusing their efforts on the down ballot races.

It seems that the primary backers of Trump moving forward are the Mercers and Sheldon Adelson.
posted by vuron at 7:52 PM on October 8, 2016

@costareports: The people at Trump Tower today, per mulitiple sources...

Christie
Giuliani
Priebus
Bannon
Conway
Don Trump Jr.
Bossie
Hicks

Where is serial assaulter Roger Ailes?
posted by Ber at 7:53 PM on October 8, 2016

Rosie fans - looks like Rosie has been doing a lot of Ask Ro over the past couple of days:

melissa writes: October 7, 2016 11:05 pm Editorial board of Washington Post needs Nobel Prize

rosie: it was not like finding the missing frames of the Zapruder film ...

the examples of his essence r plentiful and easy to access

the media has failed us all

No word yet from Marla or the pumpkins.
posted by sallybrown at 7:54 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

(and according to one of the letters, Rosie's ex is voting for Trump?!?! Guess my dirtbag ex isn't so bad after all...)
posted by sallybrown at 7:55 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Noting here for future reference: The moment on Metafilter when the election was knocked sideways.
posted by at by at 7:56 PM on October 8, 2016 [24 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump:
"Thank you to my great supporters in Wisconsin. I heard that the crowd and enthusiasm was unreal!"

Trump seems to be gloating that Trumpsters heckled Ryan.
posted by chris24 at 7:56 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Last week Saturday Night Live posted the debate cold open on their YouTube channel also. I would be surprised if they don't post whatever Trump video thing they do on there too.

However, that doesn't help me as I'm in Japan for the next month and YouTube/Hulu/everyone blocks it. (Yeah, there are ways around that but its annoying and I prefer not to, so I guess I just have to wait :P )
posted by thefoxgod at 7:58 PM on October 8, 2016

Former Congressman Joe Walsh: If women are so outraged by Trump's dirty talk, then who the hell bought the 80 million copies of "Fifty Shades Of Grey?" Grow up.

It's like a nationwide coming-out party for potential rapists.
posted by sallybrown at 7:59 PM on October 8, 2016 [76 favorites]

Mod note: Enough TV derail, and in general exercise some self-restraint on derails, keeping up with this is murder and swarms of angry little flags are lemon juice in the keeping-up papercut.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 7:59 PM on October 8, 2016 [23 favorites]

On another note, I just noticed the debate Sunday has two moderators. Maybe I'm just being forgetful but this seems like a new and unnecessary twist.

It wasn't unusual during the primary debates.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:59 PM on October 8, 2016

various LDS leaders These mentioned are politicians who are LDS. The Salt Lake Tribune and Deseret News both explained the editorial asking Trump to step down, was not from LDS Church leaders. It was just an editorial from the newspaper, that is owned by the church, where the prevailing lean is as the owners want it.
posted by Oyéah at 7:59 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Michael Steele, former GOP Chairman (and the only Republican I ever came close to voting for) in Mother Jones:

This is a devastating blow to the Trump campaign and to the party, and there is not much either can do to salvage it. It almost doesn't matter what Trump does in the next debate.

posted by sallybrown at 8:02 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Tomorrow's Daily News Cover: Delete Your Campaign.
posted by octothorpe at 8:03 PM on October 8, 2016 [17 favorites]

So who's gonna ask Mike Pence: would you leave Donald Trump alone with your 21-year-old daughter Audrey? She's a college senior – would you recommend her for an internship in Trump's White House?
posted by nicwolff at 8:05 PM on October 8, 2016 [41 favorites]

Man...that escalated quickly.
posted by uosuaq at 8:07 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

@ddale8
"There is no good time to use Bill's past against Hillary, but a town hall debate in the middle of your own crisis might be the worst."

"GOP strategist Katie Packer told me recently that her research shows voters don't even blame Hillary for attacking Bill's women."

"Female voters, Packer said, relate to Clinton lashing out at her husband's mistresses, don't think it reflects badly on her."
posted by chris24 at 8:07 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

From Danielle Paquette at the Post:

Parker, an assistant principal at an elementary school in Louisiana, pulled her daughter close. “I told her we needed to talk about our bodies,” she said, “and that sometimes bad people touch our bodies without permission.”

She said her daughter asked if Trump was a bad guy. “What do you even say to that?” she remarked.

You say "Yes. Yes, he is. Obvs." Why is this even a question that needs to be asked? FFS
posted by zakur at 8:08 PM on October 8, 2016 [35 favorites]

One interesting thing about this is that, before the tape came out, Trump tried to spin his various remarks about women as "entertainment," as if treating women horribly was an actual form of entertainment, but I digress. In one interview, he said, "A lot of that was done for the purpose of entertainment; there's nobody that has more respect for women than I do," the real estate mogul told Las Vegas’ KSNV-TV in an interview taped Wednesday ahead of a rally in Henderson, Nevada."

Basically, his argument was that he was a showman, so sure he made jokes sometimes, but come on, just part of the character. And that obviously doesn't excuse things like the Howard Stern comments, not to me certainly, but it is a clumsy attempt to contextualize and minimize them as part of a public character separate from his true self, that he's really a great guy inside.

Now, we have all of the hot mike tape, Jill Harth, the woman Erin Burnett reported on, Temple Taggart, Kirsebom, Ivana, and Jane Doe. Every single one of these were private moments. He wasn't on a TV show or a radio show playing some kind of character; he was just himself acting this way. Because that's who he is.
posted by zachlipton at 8:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

This is your life now for the next month.
posted by octothorpe at 8:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

Looking back o'er those fond thread of yesteryearday, I found one that I've recounted on many occasions. Let's watch!

"TRUMP: I've cheated on my wives
GOP: Yep
TRUMP: We should murder civilians
GOP: Okay
TRUMP: And loot countries we invaded
GOP: Free oil, yes
TRUMP: Everyone should have nukes
GOP: Why not
TRUMP: And we should use our own nukes
GOP: On brown people, yes
TRUMP: Putin is great
GOP: Better than Obama yea
TRUMP: Muslims should be banned
GOP: Totally
TRUMP: And shut down their mosques
GOP: Because 9/11
TRUMP: Women, you gotta treat 'em like shit
GOP: We're on board
TRUMP: Let's default on the debt
GOP: Fiscally responsible
TRUMP: My penis is big
GOP: Congrats
TRUMP: Torture is awesome
GOP: Sure is
TRUMP: I can't disavow the KKK because I don't know them
GOP: Who does?
TRUMP: Cruz's dad killed JFK
GOP: We all have our theories
TRUMP: Mexicans can't be impartial judges
GOP: They're biased
TRUMP: Obama birth certificate is a fake
GOP: Certainly possible
TRUMP: My groping game is top-notch, let me tell you
GOP: YOU MUST RESIGN
posted by 0xFCAF at 3:27 PM on October 7 [267 favorites −] [!]"

*standing O*
posted by petebest at 8:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [80 favorites]

If women are so outraged by Trump's dirty talk, then who the hell bought the 80 million copies of "Fifty Shades Of Grey?" Grow up.

I am seeing so much of this: people completely misunderstanding where the outrage over Trump's remarks is coming from. They think people are pissed because he used bad words, or spoke explicitly about sex, or something. They totally don't comprehend that it's the GLOATING APPROVAL OF SEXUAL ASSAULT that has people up in arms.

Fucking sigh. I want this election to be a landslide rejection of Trump and all that he stands for – and on an emotional level, I feel like that would break the back of this mentality for good. But on an intellectual level, I know that's not how it works. Not even close. The deplorables won't go away after November 8. They'll still be here, being deplorable, having no fucking clue.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 8:14 PM on October 8, 2016 [88 favorites]

Peak Maddow
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:15 PM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]

OK, so maybe I'm watching old episodes of Robotech on Canadian Netflix instead of watching SNL, but it does once again call my feelings into contrast about how fucked up this entire situation is.

As in, the blasé reaction of a family of Chinese restauranteurs and their wannabe pop-star niece to an actual alien invasion still seems less fucked up than the present situation.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:16 PM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

Meanwhile alongside my Facebook page is an ad saying, "Breaking news, Hillary's affair, blah, blah, blah." But they are showing a picture of her in the situation room on the night of the Osama bin Laden capture. I remember those images well.
posted by Oyéah at 8:17 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Video (twitter): "Bill Clinton responds after heckler calls him a "rapist" during rally in Wisconsin"

Oy, I may not be able to stand watching this debate tomorrow.
posted by sallybrown at 8:17 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

"It's not just Shabbat, it's Shabbat shuva, the sabbath between rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. Jared is presumably meditating on the sins he committed in the last year, including the sins of (I've deleted a few for length):

For the sin which we have committed before You ..."

It's maybe worth noting that all the al-cheits (as well as the Ashamnu confessional that preceeds them) are written in plural form. That's because, while no one person is assumed to have done all of them - it's a pretty comprehensive list of possible wrongdoings - it's a good bet that if you factor in an entire Jewish community, or the world's Jewish population, someone will likely have done something that qualifies. And some of those people feel guilty, are repentant, are confessing for themselves. And others don't care, don't think it applies to them, aren't even in synagogue, fill in your reason why they're not taking part in the confessional. So we as a community take the burden off the individual by assuming all of it on behalf of the community. We did this. We are collectively responsible, and we collectively say it's not okay, and we are sorry.

In other words, even if Jared and Ivanka don't have any of this on their conscience at all - and they may not, and when it's Trump's own actions I'm not sure it's fair to expect it of them, especially Ivanka - we can still do our share on their behalf. So if you want to do your own thumping for them... it counts.
posted by Mchelly at 8:19 PM on October 8, 2016 [37 favorites]

"Female voters, Packer said, relate to Clinton lashing out at her husband's mistresses, don't think it reflects badly on her."

Yeah, I mean, it's not ideal. But I don't expect saintly, perfectly logical behavior from a woman in that position. I'd wager that just about every single woman has either been in Hillary's position or had a friend in Hillary's position re a cheating partner. And we all know that shit talking the other woman is basically part of the natural response. There are like a hundred scorned woman and/or breakup songs to that effect.
posted by yasaman at 8:19 PM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]

"mistresses" "other woman"

Funny ways to spell "victims"....
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 8:24 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Video (twitter): "Bill Clinton responds after heckler calls him a "rapist" during rally in Wisconsin"

That felt very yucky. I'm not sure why I even watched it.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:26 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Video (twitter): "Bill Clinton responds after heckler calls him a "rapist" during rally in Wisconsin"

Wow, I don't tend to make pronouncements from photos or short clips but Bill doesn't look great there.
posted by glhaynes at 8:26 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

I'm pretty sure Nixon was considered an experienced and capable politician

There are four elected offices in the US federal government: Representative, Senator, Vice President and President. Nixon is the only person who was elected to all four (three others -- John Tyler and the two presidents Johnson -- served in all four roles, but these other three each assumed the office of President after a sitting President died in office).
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:28 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Cold open isn't about tape!
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:30 PM on October 8, 2016

Yep, they're doing the Veep debate instead.
posted by Surely This at 8:31 PM on October 8, 2016

I haven't caught up with the thread yet, but I needed to share my rage and despair. I thought my parents were off the Trump train, but we got into a heated discussion about this today. My dad thinks HRC is evil, and he actually thinks this will HELP Trump because "that's how guys talk." He just had reconstructive surgery on his foot, so I want to believe that was the pain meds talking, because I don't want today to be the day I lost all trust for and respect in my daddy. I grew up in a blue-collar, union, Democratic household. My parents are strongly pro-choice and pro-LGBTQ rights. I had Cabbage Patch Kids AND Matchbox cars as a kid, because fuck traditional gender roles. My mom taught me how to sew and my dad showed me how to change brake pads because both are valuable life skills. I just don't know how they got so... so mean, because they are the kindest, most generous people, but to defend Trump right now smacks of "fuck you, got mine" and I do not know how to cope with that right now.
posted by Ruki at 8:31 PM on October 8, 2016 [71 favorites]

We spoke too soon.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:32 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

Baldwin as Trump on SNL: "Are you not entertained?"
posted by zachlipton at 8:32 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Ohh breaking news with Trump on SNL
posted by vuron at 8:32 PM on October 8, 2016

"I dare you to show me a single thing"

(Cut to breaking new about the tape.)

"Grab them by the pussy."
posted by Surely This at 8:32 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

"The" Billy Bush LOL
posted by Surely This at 8:33 PM on October 8, 2016

If you were wondering, like I was, it turns out NBC Standards and Practices will allow you to say "Grab them by the pussy" on SNL, but apparently MSNBC has to bleep it. TV is weird.
posted by zachlipton at 8:33 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

LBJ was elected in 1964, when he beat Goldwater.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:34 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Have they actually done something to make Alex Baldwin's hands look small?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:35 PM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]

At least some Standards & Practices depend on the time it's aired. i.e. all the sexy primetime shows air after 10pm.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 8:35 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Baldwin is killing it. "I can do more than grab it."
posted by Surely This at 8:35 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

MSNBC chooses to bleep it, cable channels aren't regulated.
posted by clorox at 8:36 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

They did get the awful NY skyline backdrop behind Trump right, so props for that.

And a Bop-It joke. It really is the 90s all over again.
posted by zachlipton at 8:37 PM on October 8, 2016

Clinton / McKinnon 2016
posted by glhaynes at 8:39 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

even if i legitimately wanted to i could not watch the debate tomorrow. trump's hideousness, his vileness, it's so viscerally repulsive to me that just thinking about having to watch for untold hours his disgusting gross bloated face or hear his sneering whining vomitous voice gives me those same horrifying full body cringe-shivers you get right before an intense norovirus explosion from both ends. he is literally the most repugnant worthless smear of filth that has ever before in my lifetime masqueraded as human and even acknowledging his existence in this comment is close to making me puke.

Yeah, I confess I haven't watched any debate in which Donald has participated, for the exact same reasons. He reminds me way too much of every abusive asshole I've ever encountered, amped up to eleven. It's like all the 4chan misogynist shitposters on Twitter who joke about feminists being "triggered" finally got their wish in a presidential candidate. It's all I can do to watch short clips after the fact, and even then it's usually too much. I cannot wait for the day when his horrific presence fades from the political spotlight. It can't come soon enough.
posted by krinklyfig at 8:40 PM on October 8, 2016 [26 favorites]

Whoa that was brutal and that's going to be on everyone's mind leading into the debates tomorrow.

And as dead on as Alec Baldwin is with Trump it still seems to not be as malevolent as the real thing.
posted by vuron at 8:41 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

I don't want today to be the day I lost all trust for and respect in my daddy.

Honestly I think some people get a pass, first because yes, meds but also brains are weird and they can hold onto opinions that make no sense with our values. I mean just yesterday I realized that I was horribly misjudging evangelicals, which made me feel like shit because ever since I remember I felt so superior to them, and I was just being ignorant and bigoted. This is not the first or last time it will happen to me, I am sure.

Maybe your dad has very little faith in other men, which would explain why he put so much work into raising you so well. People are complicated. Deplorables don't raise their kids the way your parents raised you.

Hugs if you want them :)
posted by Tarumba at 8:41 PM on October 8, 2016 [19 favorites]

Never gonna be president now!
posted by chris24 at 8:44 PM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

And yes, Lin-Manuel brought the Reynolds Pamphlet!
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:44 PM on October 8, 2016 [20 favorites]

So apparently SNL decided to go with the obvious Hamilton reference.
posted by vuron at 8:45 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Lin on SNL paused in front of a shot of trump and sang 'Never gonna be president now'. So that's my new everything.
posted by Torosaurus at 8:45 PM on October 8, 2016 [39 favorites]

From that Politico piece above,

"I am going to watch his level of contrition over the next few days,” tweeted Sen. Richard Burr, a North Carolina Republican locked in a neck-and-neck reelection battle, “to determine my level of support.”

Level of contrition? BWAhahahahaaaaaa! Ah! Oh. Senator . . . got a real inside baseball tip for ya.
posted by petebest at 8:46 PM on October 8, 2016 [17 favorites]

I just don't know how they got so... so mean, because they are the kindest, most generous people, but to defend Trump right now smacks of "fuck you, got mine" and I do not know how to cope with that right now.

Sorry to hear that. It's probably not much comfort, but internalized misogyny runs deep, and most people can't see it within themselves. It took me a while to recognize it within myself, and I credit Metafilter for that. Even so, it was a long process that involved reading thousands of comments on Metatalk. I am grateful, because otherwise I might be just as clueless as your parents, and this election is incredibly important in that we fully reject an overtly misogynist candidate.
posted by krinklyfig at 8:50 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

The K's in those names, make them an impossible match. They either sound like a church falling apart, or a Comedy team based on Star Trek.
posted by Oyéah at 8:55 PM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

"Sen. Mark Kirk of Illinois
GOP ticket in 2020. Calling it now."

Kirk had a stroke a few years ago and the strenuousness of a Senate campaign has been difficult for him this year. I suspect if he won this year (he won't) it'd be his last campaign. I doubt even if he were nationally viable (I'm not convinced) he would have it in him to run in 2020.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:55 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

I'm skipping over about a thousand comments, so apologies for redundancies or contradictions to realities revealed before, but:

If I were running the Clinton campaign and I had a huge heap of really nasty evidence condemning our least favorite candidate, I would 1) release the second worst well in advance of the second debate (check), release the third worst 4 hours ahead of the second debate just to stir things up and make a Machado Moment of the worst during the debate.

If I, a complete political naif, can think up that, just imagine what people who know what they're doing can come up with. I have hopes.
posted by skyscraper at 8:55 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Republicans who never endorsed Trump, want him to step down
Sen. Jeff Flake of Arizona
Sen. Mark Kirk of Illinois

GOP ticket in 2020. Calling it now.

If you think that the Republicans' Trump problem is going away in the next 4 years, I'm afraid I have some bad news for you.
posted by sporkwort at 8:55 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Ted Cruz has got to be smashing his face against a wall, non-stop. After going through everything to be the one stalwart who "stood up for what he believed" only to fold right before Trump imploded. I hope that "I told you so" he's had to swallow lodges in his throat for a long time.

Cruz is scum, just like Trump. I just hope his supporters one day look in the mirror and admit they are just as bad for rendering him aid and comfort.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 8:56 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

Sasse and Flake

either a GOP presidential ticket or a wise-cracking detective duo on NBC primetime.
posted by holgate at 8:57 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

Mark "The Apprentice tapes" Burnett update: Looking at Roma Downey's Twitter (his wife), the two of them were in Russia from the end of September to very beginning of October, as part of which they spent time with Valery Gergiev, a friend of Vladimir Putin and rumored godfather to Putin's children.

It's probably just a coincidence...
posted by sallybrown at 8:58 PM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]

By the way, if anyone still wants a receipt for Hillary going after the women Bill slept with, I posted this at the tail end fo the last thread: "Enabler or family defender? How Hillary Clinton responded to husband’s accusers"

It's a little shallow, but it's the WaPo. Here's the substance of it:

When Bill Clinton launched a presidential run in 1991, his wife and senior staff considered how to deal with what came to be known as “bimbo eruptions.”
[...]
Nevertheless, Hillary Clinton dismissed an accusation made by Gennifer Flowers, the singer who sold her story to a supermarket tabloid after having previously denied an affair. In an ABC News interview, she called Flowers “some failed cabaret singer who doesn’t even have much of a résumé to fall back on.” She told Esquire magazine in 1992 that if she had the chance to cross-examine Flowers, “I mean, I would crucify her.”
[...]
By July 1992, the campaign hired private detective Jack Palladino to investigate the accusers involved in two dozen allegations.

In 1994, former Arkansas state employee Paula Jones alleged in a lawsuit that Bill Clinton groped her in a hotel room three years earlier. Hillary Clinton wrote in her autobiography, “Living History,” that she erred in opposing an early settlement.

Eventually, Bill Clinton settled for $850,000. During discovery, Jones’s attorneys found out about White House intern Monica Lewinsky.

Her husband denied the relationship, and Hillary Clinton blamed the allegations on a “vast right-wing conspiracy.”

Not much meat, but not nothing either. And I've seen video of her comments on Monica Lewinsky and Gennifer Flowers, and the "bimbo eruption", all of that was in the Frontline documentary.

Juanita Broaddrick gets a choice bit of bullshit:

Accuser Juanita Broaddrick, whose claim of a 1978 sexual assault has been denied by the Clintons, thinks Hillary Clinton was too passive. “I always felt if she’d been a stronger person . . . she could have done something about his behavior,” she said.

Anyway, that stuff is unsympathetic but understandable even by 2016 standards. The part that (I think) enrages some women is the part where she stayed with Bill at all - that is such a thorny decision to make that many women who have been in a similar situation ... have intense feelings about it. Point is, if it does come up, I think she can actually make inroads with those women if she opens up a little in her own words.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 8:59 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

The humiliation of having to make phone calls in support of your primary rival is hopefully only the beginning of Cruz's fall from grace.
posted by vuron at 8:59 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

I'm ... I'm ... I'm caught up!

(6,401 new comments)
posted by The Noble Goofy Elk at 9:00 PM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]

Funny ways to spell "victims"....

Lewinsky and Flowers were adult women who entered into - and even sought out - relationships with Bill Clinton. This does not excuse the slut-shaming they were subjected to by the media nor does it excuse Clinton's stupid behavior. Especially in regards to Lewinsky. But denying their agency isn't any better.
posted by asteria at 9:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [67 favorites]

And as dead on as Alec Baldwin is with Trump it still seems to not be as malevolent as the real thing.

Here I thought they brought him on as Trump after the first debate to do the Miss Piggy comment specifically because Alec Baldwin is famous for calling his 11 year old daughter a pig, on tape. and in the minds of SNL writers this is humorous synchronicity or something and so it was OK to let him appear in public as if he's a respectable figure.
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

John Adams defended the redcoats who perpetrated the Boston Massacre, for Christ's sake!

John Adams didn’t have a real job anyway.
posted by stet at 9:02 PM on October 8, 2016 [27 favorites]

Today my nine-year-old son asked me what "nigger" meant. He said someone at school had called him that. For context, he is a Hispanic who looks classically Hispanic. We live in Puerto Rico where you don't encounter much racism for being Hispanic. I am half-Hispanic who looks Gringo while his mother is mestizo who appears black. I am thinking that the person saw him being picked up by his mother.
I fear some evil force has been awakened by Trump. Those who lived as internet trolls have come out from under their bridges and they're not going away.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:04 PM on October 8, 2016 [90 favorites]

Sen. Jeff Flake of Arizona
Sen. Mark Kirk of Illinois

GOP ticket in 2020. Calling it now.

Sasse's the one that worries me. He's young, charismatic, smart as hell, and plausible as fuck--plus he's been vehemently #nevertrump from the get go. If Clinton's first term seems to be going well, though, I bet he waits til 2024.
posted by dersins at 9:06 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'm sorry everyone, this is all my fault. Yesterday I had the fleeting thought, "Hey, looks like we'll make it all the way to the next debate without needing a new thread."

Sorry again

(notsorry)
posted by ckape at 9:07 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

More on Putin and Burnett: In June of 2015, Burnett publicized that he was trying to work with Putin to develop a reality show "from the eyes of leaders of nations about their countries" -

Seeing Russia through its controversial president's eyes has Burnett so excited, he already has reached out to Putin, 62, a noted outdoorsman and former KGB officer. He says he emphasized his show would be devoid of armies and politics; rather, it would focus on "the humans, the nature, the animals of the nation." When it is suggested the Russian leader probably would ignore such a request, Burnett, who recently wrapped filming a Ben-Hur remake in Rome, cracks a smile: "How do you know that? I would think I could probably get through to most people."

So, if he did get through, what was the reaction? Responds Burnett coyly, "No comment."

:-/
posted by sallybrown at 9:09 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

SNL's "Kellyanne's Day Off" segment was very, very good.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:09 PM on October 8, 2016 [26 favorites]

McKinnon was so brilliant in the Kellyanne skit that she actually inspired some sympathy for the real Kellyanne in me.
posted by vuron at 9:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]

Here's the Lin-Manuel clip [via Twitter]
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [20 favorites]

SNL's "Kellyanne's Day Off" segment was very, very good.

Kate McKinnon's star power is incredible. It's been a long time since I've watched an episode and I've found every bit that didn't put her at the center to be nearly unwatchable.
posted by gerryblog at 9:13 PM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]

McKinnon is a phenomenon. There's something Golden Age about her right now.
posted by holgate at 9:16 PM on October 8, 2016 [19 favorites]

cashman: NYT Reporter Ashley Parker: This morning, Pence called Trump and told him he had to handle the next 48 hours alone. He didn't think he'd be an effective surrogate.

I realize this is hours ago already, but what happens after 48 hours? Does Pence wait to see what batshit nonsense Donnie spouts at the debate and decide if he can be back on Team Trump? Is he back on board regardless, because he has to? Or can he jump ship, considering the consequences better than if he stays on board as VP to Presidential Hopeful Sexual Predator?

Pence's statement claims Donnie apologized - HE DID NOT. He said he was sorry FOR HIS WORDS, not his actions, over a decade ago. And HE DID NOT SHOW REMORSE, but he did show what was in his heart: hatred that he's now called to say "I'm sorry I told people I sexually assault any woman who I find attractive, and I thought/think I can do that because I'm famous."

When people say I don't want my family with your running mate, how will he reply?
posted by filthy light thief at 9:17 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Mod note: McKinnon is rockin' but take further discussion of her skills to the upcoming FanFare thread and stay focused on the election/SNL's commentary thereon.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 9:17 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

National treasure Alan Cumming recently visited SF to promote his new book. In the San Francisco Chronicle article, he's quoted thus:


Cumming admits he loves to dish, but his stories frequently revolve around his most loyal friendships. He calls [Monica] Lewinsky one of his “dearest friends and really a kind of martyr in terms of how modern, early Internet America vilified her.”

“Monica’s a big leftie and will still vote for Hillary,” he says, “but obviously, having Hillary back in the news is a double-edged sword for her because she’s trying to get on with her life.”
posted by vickyverky at 9:19 PM on October 8, 2016 [52 favorites]

Pence's schedule for the start of next week was released a couple of hours ago: he's due in NC on Monday, Omaha on Tuesday, Liberty U in Virginia on Wednesday.
posted by holgate at 9:19 PM on October 8, 2016

I realize this is hours ago already, but what happens after 48 hours? Does Pence wait to see what batshit nonsense Donnie spouts at the debate and decide if he can be back on Team Trump?

Pence's statement ended "We pray for his family and look forward to the opportunity he has to show what is in his heart when he goes before the nation tomorrow night."

=

"Win the debate and humble yourself with a sincere, groveling apology, or I quit."
posted by sallybrown at 9:21 PM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]

“Monica’s a big leftie and will still vote for Hillary,”

There's Eli Gold in them there hills
posted by sallybrown at 9:22 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Conway is dangerous. She's sanitizing a facist for acceptance by the American people. I'll just leave it at that. SNL needs to be careful.
posted by cashman at 9:26 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

Bill Pruitt on Twitter: As a producer on seasons 1 & 2 of #theapprentice I assure you: when it comes to the #trumptapes there are far worse. #justthebegininng

My sad, futile hope is that shit like this doesn't get swept aside until the offending dude runs for president. Then again, TMZ was started in Nov. 2005, so maybe they opened their doors just a bit too late to serve as the transparent spleen for this sort of filth.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:29 PM on October 8, 2016

My impression is that Tina Fey dropped in on weekend update just to make sure voters remember that Mike Pence is a bigot. Good work queen.
posted by prefpara at 9:32 PM on October 8, 2016 [31 favorites]

I realize this is hours ago already, but what happens after 48 hours? Does Pence wait to see what batshit nonsense Donnie spouts at the debate and decide if he can be back on Team Trump?

The chickenshit hypocrite is just waiting to see if this current scandal has legs and if the outrage shows any signs of dying down so he can resume his campaign. If any of these assclowns were actually experiencing the outrage they're professing to feel, they would actually do something beyond twitter tsking.

I've despised Trump from the start, but my contempt for the republicans who enabled him keeps growing by the hour.
posted by bibliowench at 9:34 PM on October 8, 2016 [24 favorites]

More background on how the Post scooped NBC News, with this happy kicker: "There are no plans, he said, to investigate the source of the leak within NBC’s news division."
posted by sallybrown at 9:36 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

My impression is that Tina Fey dropped in on weekend update just to make sure voters remember that Mike Pence is a bigot. Good work queen.

+ to try and help rehab Fallon's image (which didn't work because he was spineless as usual)
+ to show off her choice Philly accent (which was perfect, obviously)
posted by sallybrown at 9:38 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

Lewinsky and Flowers were adult women who entered into - and even sought out - relationships with Bill Clinton.

I went to "Bill Clinton" on Wikipedia to find the whole list but it turns out the guy's sexual assaults require their own separate page.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 9:38 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

Let's wait until after the 2018 midterms before we start thinking about the 2020 Presidential election.
posted by humanfont at 9:39 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Tic Tacs have now spoken out against Trump, joining Skittles in the Democratic candy coalition. If Red Vines comes out hard against him we could be looking at Candyland going Blue for the first time since FDR.
posted by haveanicesummer at 9:40 PM on October 8, 2016 [53 favorites]

NBC delayed publication of lewd Trump tape because of lawsuit fears

Or because Comcast-NBC would rather see Trump dismantle the FCC. WaPo had it for 5 hours before publishing.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:43 PM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]

I propose Trump replace "You Can't Always Get What You Want" as his rally song wirh this Chicago classic .
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:44 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Updated Trump Bingo Card; I know content before 2015 is supposed to be covered by the free space, but new released tape + public non-apologies drags it into the current campaign issues.

Please let me know if I've missed anything; I've been at GeekGirlCon all day (and will be tomorrow; will catch up on the debate after).
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:45 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

Trump is the fulminating abscess that announced the systemic infection.
posted by Oyéah at 9:46 PM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]

I propose Trump replace "You Can't Always Get What You Want" as his rally song wirh this Chicago classic

When I read this, I first thought of Sufan Steven's "Chicago" with its refrain "I made a lot of mistakes." That works too.
posted by zachlipton at 9:48 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

I went to "Bill Clinton" on Wikipedia to find the whole list but it turns out the guy's sexual assaults require their own separate page.

I was pretty horrified by the "Other allegations" category alone, but after poking around a bit, it's not clear how well-vetted that page is. I can't find any record of an Eileen Wellstone, for example, outside of the typical right wing nutso sources.
posted by sallybrown at 9:49 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]

I went to "Bill Clinton" on Wikipedia to find the whole list but it turns out the guy's sexual assaults require their own separate page.

Thanks but I was an adult (and a Republican) during the late 90's so I remember the first time the Republicans tried this. Most of the relationships mentioned there were reportedly consensual and the ones that weren't were a) interestingly enough all reported around the same time, b) all had huge conflicts and holes in their stories, and c) none of the stories the Republicans thought were worth pursuing. And as the Lewinsky thing wasn't enough to do the job of getting Clinton out of the WH, I think it's the last fact that's most damning.

Maybe try r/the_donald? With an average age of 15 they might find this information more interesting?
posted by asteria at 9:49 PM on October 8, 2016 [51 favorites]

Most of the women listed on that Wikipedia page appear to have had consensual sex with Bill Clinton. There are 4 who have made accusations; but there is no proof. Meanwhile Trump confessed on tape. Beyond his own words there are dozens of women and witnesses in the case of Mr Trump.
posted by humanfont at 10:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

> Enjoy the delicious schadenfreude while it's plentiful and cheap, but these woods are deep and dark and we are not out of them yet.

Yeah... if some terrible "hit by a meteor" unforseen eventuality doesn't prevent Clinton from becoming president, we will still be in the situation where one half of the country, openly and en masse, has just told the other half “We would hand you over to fascists if the opportunity presented itself. Government registry for your religion, nationwide stop-and-frisk, ‘consequences’ for abortion and protesting and journalism, maybe-retroactive abandonment of birthright citizenship, millions rounded up into camps, the whole works.”

So either 1⃝) we'll openly discuss that and what it says about the country or 2⃝) we'll pretend it never happened, to the delight and incitement of all the people who most fervently salivated for that outcome. Either of those will be a rough and perilous road.
posted by XMLicious at 10:02 PM on October 8, 2016 [39 favorites]

I went to "Bill Clinton" on Wikipedia to find the whole list but it turns out the guy's sexual assaults require their own separate page.

Go to the Talk section of that article, I am surprised they haven't locked it off. Seems like people keep using shitty sources.
posted by Tarumba at 10:07 PM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

Live from New York, it's Saturday Night [clips]!

Here's the full Lin-Manuel Miranda monologue/song. I can't stop replaying his little dance.

Here's the cold open.

And here's Kellyanne's day off, in which Conway's vacation is interrupted by the ridiculous nature of her job. Personally, I'd like to see a sequel to this one, featuring a giant head-shaped indentation in Priebus's desk.
posted by zachlipton at 10:16 PM on October 8, 2016 [46 favorites]

> CNN chyron now "SOURCES: GOP MULLS SCENARIO OF PENCE QUITTING TICKET"

Heh. I'll bet.

They just found out there's a campaign-killing tape of Silver Fox Pence advocating having women assaulted with transvaginal ultrasound probes.
posted by sebastienbailard at 10:26 PM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]

Bill Cosby must be really conflicted right now.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 10:29 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

where one half of the country, openly and en masse, has just told the other half

Not really, Trump supporters are hardly one half of the country.
posted by iamck at 10:41 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

trump supporters are one sixth of the country? still too many
posted by eustatic at 10:48 PM on October 8, 2016

trump supporters are one sixth of the country? still too many

Wait.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:49 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Libby Anne: What Would Become of Our Husbands and Sons Under a Trump Presidency?

We live in a society where men earn more than women; a society where women frequently give up their careers to stay home with their children, becoming dependent upon their husbands; a society where male stars are paid more than female stars; a society where men control the vast, vast majority of the nation’s companies; a society where only 20% of our Representatives and Senators are women. We live in a society where men have outsized power and influence, outsized control and ability to dominate. All of this should make us more concerned about husbands and sons across the country who display a willingness to treat women as property, as pieces of flesh. All of this makes it more important to nip in the bud any such “locker room banter.”

If Trump is elected president, what message would that send to our husbands and sons? Already we live in a society that too often condones male misbehavior. If we elect Trump, with his history of treating women as objects that exist for his pleasure, we will further normalize this behavior for our husbands and sons—and our fathers and nephews and grandsons. We must not tolerate this. We must consider what this election means for our husbands and sons. We cannot afford to stand by and allow this presidential contest give our husbands and sons the message that it is okay to call women “bitch” or “piece of ass” or to boast about grabbing them by the p****.

posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:56 PM on October 8, 2016 [43 favorites]

My shit DVR failed to record SNL, which was apparently amazing... is it available to watch online anywhere yet? Any live streams that record the content, etc?
posted by Rhaomi at 10:58 PM on October 8, 2016

I am so obsessively reading this thread that my dog has gone to sleep on my feet and is looking at me plaintively. Whoooo Donald Trump, Mommy? Why you laughing and crying? Food now?
posted by frumiousb at 11:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

is it available to watch online anywhere yet? Any live streams that record the content, etc?

I imagine it'll be up here on NBC.com soon-ish, though it's probably region-blocked. Here's an unofficial video of the cold open and Donald Trump Apology For Billy Bush Bus Conversation, which may disappear given NBC's quick take-down of unauthorized material.

"Are you not entertained?"
posted by filthy light thief at 11:05 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

Guys I'm starting to get the feeling that Trump might not be a very nice person.
posted by clorox at 11:06 PM on October 8, 2016 [23 favorites]

A quick search of YouTube gave me tonight's Trump sketch about an hour ago though sketchy-looking channels. Dunno if it's still up.
posted by figurant at 11:07 PM on October 8, 2016

Why not make a FanFare post?
posted by rhizome at 11:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Can't wait for the match tomorrow when Billie Jean King faces off against the worst tennis player in the world.
posted by snofoam at 11:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]

Here in England, obsessively reading this thread too (albeit because of second night of Hamdog consumers remorse). It's also the 9th here, so finally can say...

Less than a month to go to election day
posted by Wordshore at 11:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

Guys I'm starting to get the feeling that Trump might not be a very nice person.

But rather just a piss poor excuse for the
Anti-Christ. What a tiny fingered loser. Sad!
posted by y2karl at 11:15 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

This isn't real.
posted by mazola at 11:16 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Ya know how there were some jokes that Donnie was looking more like Immortan Joe from Mad Max: Fury Road ... I realized he's getting closer to that with every leak. Tyrant with an army of man-boys, where the women are locked up and selected for breeding at a young age. Joe lives as the god-emperor in (a body-enhancing costume) of the post nuclear holocaust wasteland where he doles out water to the poor masses, he has some monster children who fight for him, and his prime enemy is a bad-ass woman who tries to save some young women from their fate as breeders for/with Immorten Joe.

I just hope we can skip the nuclear holocaust and jump right to his defeat and the adoration of Furiosa, the wives, and the Vuvalini (note: not Furiosa alone).
posted by filthy light thief at 11:26 PM on October 8, 2016 [30 favorites]

Thanks, filthy light thief -- I also found this YT link of the episode, though it's probably not long for this world (and adds an annoying musical overdub)
posted by Rhaomi at 11:26 PM on October 8, 2016

I'm... Caught up?
posted by Yowser at 11:35 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

Trump seems to think that Bill Clinton's sex scandals are a magical incantation that will summon the wrath of voters. As if all he has to to is say Kathryn Wiley's name three times in a debate and poof Hillary will be gone.
posted by humanfont at 11:35 PM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]

albeit because of second night of Hamdog consumers remorse

The same one or did you eat another?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:35 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

I just submitted this question at the Open Debates site. Kind of late in the game, but...

"What do you believe are the legitimate functions of government?"
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 11:37 PM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]

The "Kellyanne's day off" sketch made me realize that I'd incorrectly thought Kellyanne Conway and Katrina Pierson were the same person.
posted by roll truck roll at 11:39 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

Whatever happened to Pierson anyways?
posted by Yowser at 11:40 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]

That little dance Miranda does while excerpting "Never gonna be president now:" Weapons-grade cute. It might even be cuter than my cat. And since I'm a brand-new cat owner (two weeks tomorrow) you know I don't say that lightly.
posted by seyirci at 11:42 PM on October 8, 2016 [27 favorites]

Not really, Trump supporters are hardly one half of the country.

Two-fifths, a third, a sixth... especially when the number includes nearly all of the elected members of one out of only two political parties... it doesn't matter exactly what the extremely large number is if a future, more presentable candidate could mean they'd be willing to hand over me or my immigrant parent or my non-white non-Muslim-but-definitely-the-ones-who-would-be-reported-as-unregistered-Muslims relatives in exchange for achieving political objectives.

We really need to not be complacent about it. As climate change ratchets up violence and unrest and economic losses and pressures all over the world, everyone isn't going to be all rational by default and necessarily assume the political factions descended from the original proponents of environmentalism are the ones who can fix things, or that authoritarians can't; see China, for example.

But the fear that fascism exploits will rise; a polished, professional candidate promoting all the same ideas and flipping on one or two things like climate change might have an even broader base and more success than Trump, and we shouldn't act as though Cheeto Mussolini's viability was a mere aberration. Any negative development puts ammo in the hands of fascists and would-be fascists and people who think they can profit from and control fascists, but the cause of working for things to be different from most of human history has a needle's eye to thread.
posted by XMLicious at 11:54 PM on October 8, 2016 [35 favorites]

Ya know how there were some jokes that Donnie was looking more like Immortan Joe from Mad Max: Fury Road ...

I've been playing the Mad Max game recently, and ruminating on it. The original 1979 Mad Max movie has the apocalypse come about not through a nuclear war, but just from civilized people turning against each other. The 2015 video game depicts an explicit ecological disaster. The entire opening region of the game is a desert that's very obviously a depleted ocean. You aren't literally told about it, but you're shown an area where the only structures are rusted out tankers, trawlers and cargo ships in a sea of sand.

Combining the state of the world with this fiction, I have to admit I've been in a pretty dark place lately. I'm in my 30s, and I'm not entirely sure I won't eventually die of hunger, thirst, or someone trying to kill me for extra protein.
posted by figurant at 11:56 PM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]

I got through this thread more or less and can't wait to be the snarkiest and most sleep deprived of my debate watching group. Thanks Metafilter! I feel faint.

What a mess. As a Chicagoan who will be able to vote against Mark Kirk, I am happy to share that his opponent, Tammy Duckworth is ahead by 5 points according to most polls. She's seems a rather center democrat but it feels good to have a vote national vote that matters this year.
posted by dagosto at 12:07 AM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Wow, Ana Navarro is still set to "scorched earth" mode when it comes to Trump. She calls him a racist in not one, but two languages; for bonus points, she also calls him a bigot and a misogynist.

I think my favorite part is when she tells the Trump surrogate that pretending his candidate never referred to Mexicans as rapists "makes you seem insane."
posted by Superplin at 12:10 AM on October 9, 2016 [87 favorites]

I laughed till I cried at those SNL sketches - so needed in these crazy times.

More seriously, the demographics are changing the US in a positive direction - in 2020 the proportion of angry white people will be even smaller - and if you all manage to flip congress and give Hillary a chance to govern, she'll get a second time, and the imagined slick white supremist will be up against an even more diverse nation, a functioning health-care system, a liberal Supreme Court, and probably many other improvements. Vote down-ticket! Vote 2018!
(Also, white millennials are more liberal than their parents).

I think those SC nominations are what have kept Trump at the 40% platform. Conservatives know that if Hillary wins and brings along the senate, the SC will be majority liberal for a generation - or for ever. So they held their noses. Now, as the Republican leadership is realising that Trump will take the party down with him (their internal polls may be worse than what we see), they are scrambling to save whatever is left and we'll see Trump's numbers approaching the crazification factor of 27% during this week. It was disappointing to read somewhere far above that the Democratic Party doesn't really have a ground game in Texas - it seems some of the red states are turning more and more purple..
posted by mumimor at 12:19 AM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

This is one of those moments in history where you think to yourself, "God, I just can't wait for the tell-all."
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 12:21 AM on October 9, 2016 [43 favorites]

I'm really hoping that Clinton basically ignores him and uses the venue as a way to push her agenda forward. She's presidential, and I like to think the presidential thing to do here has nothing with sick burns or gotchas, but with advocating for a better America.

I would bet she doesn't mention the video because that's all he's going to be thinking about. He's going to be so distracted, and the longer she ignores it the more rattled he's going to get.
posted by bongo_x at 12:24 AM on October 9, 2016 [15 favorites]

"How dare she call us sexists!?
Let's see how she likes being held accountable for things her husband did!"
posted by Senor Cardgage at 12:25 AM on October 9, 2016 [24 favorites]

A tell-all? Christ, that'd be longer than A Song of Ice and Fire.
posted by gusottertrout at 12:31 AM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

More seriously, the demographics are changing the US in a positive direction

I... look, I think Trump voters are largely a bunch of ignorant racists and misogynists (and likely homophobes). But that's not because white people are somehow intrinsically biased. Equality is good. Making sure one group is not unfairly privileged is good. But phrasing it like this, basically "yay less white people" is pretty crappy. To me anyway.

I guess you could have meant that old people are dying off and that's a good thing. But old people probably wouldn't feel good about that either if that's the case.
posted by Justinian at 12:33 AM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

humanfont: "Most of the women listed on that Wikipedia page appear to have had consensual sex with Bill Clinton."

First, I don't think Hillary Clinton should be judged on her husband's infidelities, and I don't think it will work as a political tactic. It already failed when Newt, et al, tried to use it before. However, I feel that it's not OK to elide the fact that Bill Clinton had affairs with women who were far down the scale in the power dynamic compared to him. Yes, consensual, but the idea that a very powerful man had affairs with women who were not- and in one infamous case, she was an intern working for him. I mean, it's not OK to smear Hillary Clinton with this, but I don't think what Bill did was at all acceptable, even if he didn't initiate any of it.
posted by krinklyfig at 12:44 AM on October 9, 2016 [22 favorites]

This is your life now for the next month.
posted by octothorpe at 11:11 PM on October 8

That link is not as encouraging at 3:45 AM as one might have thought.
posted by Doktor Zed at 12:50 AM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

Has anyone made a gif of Lin-Manuel doing the "Never Gon' Be President Now" in front of Trump's picture yet?
posted by corb at 12:50 AM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

The demographics are changing, but not being racist is something we still have to work at regularly. If racism simply died off, we'd have licked it centuries, maybe millennia, ago. It's not enough to say that there statistically should be fewer racists in the future, because people like Donald Trump generate more racists, and inspire more racist acts. This stuff continues to breed, new generations singing covers of the same old songs. And simply having a smaller percentage of white people doesn't inherently reduce racism or other forms of bigotry. Demographic change may slowly help shift our politics, but demographic change alone isn't going to change society; it's something we all have to work at.
posted by zachlipton at 12:54 AM on October 9, 2016 [26 favorites]

Has anyone made a gif of Lin-Manuel doing the "Never Gon' Be President Now" in front of Trump's picture yet?

Reaches into the Twitter grab bag... Will you accept this Vine?
posted by zachlipton at 12:55 AM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

Ask and ye shall receive, corb.
posted by yasaman at 12:58 AM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

'Silo': Hillary Clinton Campaign Ad:
"I spent many years as a nuclear missile launch officer ..."
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:01 AM on October 9, 2016 [8 favorites]

It's 3:00 AM Central Time and already more than 1,500 comments. And I'm gonna dive in, 'cause who needs sleep?
Respectfully, will another post surface an hour before the debate today? Pretty please? I live in hope for a great thunderous trouncing, complete with the applause of millions of irate voters of all genders.
posted by TrishaU at 1:01 AM on October 9, 2016

Of course white people are intricisally biased. They are not exceptional enough to escape this condition. As human beings, they are born into a system of intrinsic bias, and don't get a get-out-of-bias card. It takes conscious work and attention and most importantly, recognition that implicit bias exists and intent is not magic, to combat it. Denial feeds it.
posted by rtha at 1:10 AM on October 9, 2016 [40 favorites]

Yup, there will be a new FPP for the Sunday night debate.

Mind, I don't know if we have a current plan for dealing with a new Trump scandal announced mid-afternoon. But this has been a pretty sedate campaign so I don't think we have to worry about that. [fake]
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:11 AM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

escape from the potato planet: "I am seeing so much of this: people completely misunderstanding where the outrage over Trump's remarks is coming from. They think people are pissed because he used bad words, or spoke explicitly about sex, or something. They totally don't comprehend that it's the GLOATING APPROVAL OF SEXUAL ASSAULT that has people up in arms."

QFT. This cannot be emphasized enough.
posted by krinklyfig at 1:11 AM on October 9, 2016 [37 favorites]

Thanks guys! I need all the little bits of joy I can get over the next month.

What I'm wondering though, is, if Pence quits, who will be the next VP pick? Who would possibly want to attach themselves to this monster?
posted by corb at 1:15 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

But phrasing it like this, basically "yay less white people" is pretty crappy.

I did write angry white people - a specific subgroup of white people who are angry because their way of life and perceived values are disappearing.
I'm looking at this from a European perspective, and I'm much more optimistic about the situation in the US than about that here, because the American culture is more adaptable - look at the new Brexit post, I have to read it in tiny bits at a time because it is so terrifying, and don't even think about what is happening on the continent.

I think in America right now, there is a strong reaction to change, which is scary to live through and to watch, but in the end, you are moving in a good direction, not least because a lot of white people, young and old, are accepting the social changes of more diversity and more equal rights.
posted by mumimor at 1:15 AM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

SNL of all things was pretty clear about that tonight. They called it sexual assault, multiple times, on Weekend Update. And I imagine the deluge of late night shows will do the same come Monday. That's the kind of thing that sets the narrative as clips are shared virally, and as people who maybe don't pay as close attention to the news get a sense for the issue. Of course, the moment might be a brief one depending on what goes down tomorrow.

Anyway, good night all, I look forward to 532 new comments or whatever tomorrow morning!
posted by yasaman at 1:20 AM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

This is distressing.

So I was out on my porch having a smoke a few hours ago. I live a few blocks from the University of Oregon in a apartment building and there is a house party going on about 20 meters away.

A black guy walks up and asks if he could buy a smoke from me since he is trying to quit and needs one but doesn't want to buy a pack. So I give him one and he says thanks. At the same time our neighbors pull in and we start discussing the horrific bone thing in the parking lot. So the smoke guy is interested and we talk about the half dog carcass that is outside my apartment while we smoke.

Then the conversation takes a dark turn.

So the guy asking for the smoke is a normal grad student that has lived in Eugene for 8 years. And he shares the story of what led him to my porch. He went to the house party and asked a guy smoking if he could buy one for a dollar. A bunch of guys started calling him the n-word and were telling him to go back to Africa. This is not the Eugene I grew up in....

So I invite the guy in for pizza and beers and he accepts my offer. I just moved in here and I am a little lonely so I was happy to have the company. So a long talk about how he can't believe Eugene is like this now. And you might not be shocked by the timing. It started around when Trump made the racism mainstream and is exacerbated by school just starting here so 10K kids just moved in from all over the country.

He said that tomorrow he is looking for a new place that is off campus since he doesn't want his kids to be around here anymore.
posted by johnpowell at 1:23 AM on October 9, 2016 [174 favorites]

Here's my top 3 wishlist for the debate:

1. Clinton effectively declares Trump's campaign dead. I cannot think of anything that would be more publicly humiliating for Trump than that.

Question: "Ms. Clinton, we have heard a lot in the news about Mr. Trump's lewd remarks. What was your reaction to all this?""

Clinton: [Brief laugh] "Thank you. What a surprising question!" [Audience chuckles.] "Honestly speaking, I was a bit relieved. Relieved that he has shown his true soul --or rather, absence of it-- to such a large audience. And also relieved that it has brought an effective end to Mr. Trump's candidacy for president. Most Americans who were undecided before have made up their mind now and will not vote for Mr. Trump. Even his fellow Republicans are deserting him in droves, and rightly so. This means that we will not have to suffer through a Trump presidency, which, no doubt, would have been a disaster for this country. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank all volunteers for my campaign in all 50 states for their tireless efforts. I couldn't have done it without you.
But lest we become too complacent, let's not forget that there is more at stake than the presidency. There are competitive down-ticket races, seats for the Senate and the House, that still need your help." [etc. etc. more boring details on down-ticket races]

(Media reaction: Clinton fails to express sympathy for Trump victims.)


2. Clinton dares Trump to drop out.

Question: "Mr. Trump, after all the controversy of the last days, will you drop out of the race?"

Trump: [Starts with an emphatic No then pivots to attack on Alicia Machado, Bill Clinton and something incoherent about Obama and Netanyahu.]

Moderator: "Ms. Clinton, would you like to respond to this?"

Clinton: "Yes I would! But I would like to get back to the original question first, which was, should my opponent drop out of the race. My answer to this is that he shouldn't have run to begin with, given his background. And he shouldn't have been made the frontrunner by the Republican Party, which knew all about him. Now that his sordid past has come to light, it would certainly be in the interest of the Republican Party if he dropped out, but frankly, dropping out at this point would be an admission of defeat and I don't think Mr. Trump is ready for that. Or will ever be ready for it. Just like Mr. Trump's supporters in the Republican Party are not yet ready to give up on their decades-old positions of racism and misogyny.
[Turning to Trump and addressing him directly] So, please, Donald, I beg you, stay in this race to the end. Stay, and keep exposing your Republican supporters for what they are. It takes moral fiber to take one for the team, it takes character, and we both know that you are not the character to drop out, you have said so yourself. So please don't drop out. And please try to keep your VP candidate in the race as well."


3. Demoting Trump to a has-been and less important by going after Pence, Ryan or whoever instead.

Clinton: [in response to some question related to Trump] "Thank you. I think there has been enough talk about my opponent already and all that needs to be said has been said. And the public has already recognized that he is not the leader that he thinks he is. I think that it is time that we turn our attention to those that actually set the tone in the Republican Party, not through grand-standing or locker-room braggadocio, but through legislative efforts that endanger minorities and women alike. These people, and not Donald Trump, are the real danger to our democracy. People like his running mate Michael Pence, who has repeatedly tried to legislate women into submission. For example ... [more details on Pence policies] ... So let's forget about Donald Trump, he's just a sideshow compared to the real dangers that our country is facing."

Well, I can dream, can't I...
posted by sour cream at 1:45 AM on October 9, 2016 [12 favorites]

johnpowell, I'm sorry your new friend had to experience that. I hope he finds a better location for his family soon, because he says right, exposing kids to that mindset is awful. I wish there was some way to get the party kids in trouble for harassment.
posted by harriet vane at 1:54 AM on October 9, 2016 [17 favorites]

@1Natalie Maines: Ok ladies now let's get in formation
posted by valetta at 2:18 AM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

Judy Gold: @JewdyGold
Dear #GeorgeCarlin,
We are pleased to inform you that we have decreased the # of words you can't say on television from 7 to 4. RIP.
posted by krinklyfig at 2:22 AM on October 9, 2016 [49 favorites]

Mod note: A couple deleted. We're getting pretty far off topic with the weird dog/revenge talk. Email is probably the way to go if people want to have this off-side discussion.
posted by taz (staff) at 2:55 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm kind of feeling like Clinton should try to push Trump into going ballistic on the Republicans that have denounced him this weekend. 90 minutes of frothing rage aimed at the GOP would be amazing.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:58 AM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

Eh, it would just be fan service at this point. I think he needs to deepen his persona by, I don't know, eating a live rat onstage. You know, something to show that there are unseen depths.

Literally.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:03 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

The demographics are changing, but not being racist is something we still have to work at regularly. If racism simply died off, we'd have licked it centuries, maybe millennia, ago. It's not enough to say that there statistically should be fewer racists in the future, because people like Donald Trump generate more racists, and inspire more racist acts. This stuff continues to breed, new generations singing covers of the same old songs.

The conception of American whiteness has continually shifted over time, maybe as a self-corrective to keep the exploited margins of society manageably small. Rudy Giuliani's grandparents were all immigrants. Sean Hannity's grandparents were all immigrants. More than a few of the Hannitys and Giulianis of 2050 will have grandparents from Central America.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 3:07 AM on October 9, 2016 [28 favorites]

2. Clinton dares Trump to drop out.

I hope and expect that the Clinton camp is working on something along these lines. Subtle, unsubtle, I don't care as long as it works. Because we don't want Trump to drop out in the next few weeks and anything she can do to get his back up enough to make it impossible for such a narcissist to drop out is a victory.

Dare him to drop out? Predict that he will drop out because he is a weak man? Advise him to drop out to save face? I'm not sure what would work best but I'm guessing the Clinton campaign has people advising them as to which it is.
posted by Justinian at 3:09 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Well, I've hit my favorite limit for the first time ever.

Also, responding to something over 1000 comments ago:

I think I might just break down crying when she has to shake his hand tomorrow.

I just realized she knew exactly who Trump was when she shook his hand a week ago...

2. Clinton dares Trump to drop out.

My dream scenario is that Clinton starts the debate by saying "I heard the Republican Party wants to replace their candidate. I'm willing to wait a few minutes if they want to bring in a new one."
posted by mmoncur at 3:36 AM on October 9, 2016 [27 favorites]

They think people are pissed because he used bad words, or spoke explicitly about sex, or something. They totally don't comprehend that it's the GLOATING APPROVAL OF SEXUAL ASSAULT that has people up in arms."

This is day three and I'm pissed that MSNBC is still saying this is about "lewd language."
posted by Room 641-A at 3:58 AM on October 9, 2016 [25 favorites]

Locally, Rep. John Katko says Trump should "think seriously" about dropping out. The headline writer puts this as Katko calling for Trump to drop out, but the article explicitly says that did not go that far. He just wants Trump to think about it.

Katko never endorsed Trump and he's in a district that's flipped back and forth over the last few elections.
posted by maurice at 4:04 AM on October 9, 2016

Well this is definitely the year of Hamilton, a very aptly timed musical - I've already seen at least three conservative blogs quoting him (the real guy not the musical) on Jefferson/Burr....
posted by Cozybee at 4:10 AM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

> NYTimes: More Than 150 Republican Leaders Don’t Support Donald Trump. Here’s When They Reached Their Breaking Point.

The count keeps going up. The original headline is embedded in the URL: "at-least-110-republican-leaders-..."
posted by at by at 4:16 AM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

This is infuriating. A woman on MSNBC is defending Trump, saying it was "just talk," and Alex Witt gives her a total pass.Time to give CNN another try. (Except for Joy, natch.)
posted by Room 641-A at 4:17 AM on October 9, 2016

Mentioning Burr for some reason reminded my of Gore Vidal . How sad he's not here to see this, it would have amused him greatly. And appalled, of course.
posted by Grangousier at 4:18 AM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

Am I the only one who never heard of billy bush before this cluster muck? He looks like a real pr**k.
posted by james33 at 4:22 AM on October 9, 2016 [14 favorites]

For 80 years, the Deseret News has not entered into the troubled waters of presidential endorsement.
...
Accordingly, today we call on Donald Trump to step down from his pursuit of the American presidency.

All of my Mormon friends are sharing this on Facebook. After living in Utah and spending a year hearing "Yeah, but The Clintons are worse!" so many times I've lost count, it feels like I'm finally waking up from a bad dream.

I hope the Democratic Party takes all 50 states, but if we win Utah just this once I'll be so happy.
posted by mmoncur at 4:31 AM on October 9, 2016 [15 favorites]

Honestly, you don't need to read more than the headline. The man is appalling and why torment yourself.

Mother Jones: New Tapes Reveal Trump Lewdly Discussing his Daughter, Black Women, Threesomes, and More
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:35 AM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

2. Clinton dares Trump to drop out.

What if she triple dog dared him?
posted by octothorpe at 4:38 AM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

In another, Trump responds to a question from Stern about whether he'd stay with Melania if she was disfigured in a car accident by asking, "How do the breasts look?"

Ladies and Gentlemen, your Republican Nominee for the office of President of the United States.

This was ON THE RADIO, people. It doesn't take a forensic expert to dig up a tape. Nice oppo research, Other Sixteen Republican Candidates.

If my desk wasn't made of glass I'd be hitting my head on it right now.
posted by mmoncur at 4:44 AM on October 9, 2016 [34 favorites]

It's almost 8 am on the east coast.

When is the next scandal?

You shouldn't have long to wait. Rudy Giuliani to Replace Both Kellyanne Conway and Reince Priebus on Sunday Shows.

Rudy will have something memorable to say, I feel certain.
posted by Short Attention Sp at 4:53 AM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

What I'm wondering though, is, if Pence quits, who will be the next VP pick? Who would possibly want to attach themselves to this monster?

IT'S IVANKA TIME, BABY
posted by mightygodking at 4:58 AM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Today's Washington Post is especially brutal. There are three topics on the front page; Trump, Hurricane Matthew, and children living under ISIS. Trump takes up 75% of the front page with three stories, pointers to five more stories inside, and denunciations from six prominent republicans. From this article, and it's a little juvenile, but it made me chortle:

“I’ve never seen a candidate walk into a debate with this much at stake,” said longtime Clinton ally James Carville. “He’s overweight, he’s old, he’s tired and he’s crabby. And he’s going to have a very long hour-and-a-half.”

In the Whistlestop podcast about Obama and the 2008 Iowa caucus, John Dickerson mentions that one of the jobs of a good campaign is to shield the candidate from well-wishers, donors, politicians, and friends who are giving the candidate bad advice. This article in the WashPo shows how Trump's campaign is especially bad at separating between people who are giving him useful advice and people who are telling him what he wants to hear.
posted by peeedro at 4:59 AM on October 9, 2016 [8 favorites]

All this talk of Hillary "enabling" her husband's behavior reminds me of this Dolly Parton joke:

Jolene, Jolene, Jolene, Jolene
You are not responsible for the choices my husband makes
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 5:04 AM on October 9, 2016 [71 favorites]

Guiliani vs Pelosi on Meet the Press today. Donna Brazile vs Giuliani on This Week with George Stephanopolis. CSPAN Radio stream will replay all the Sunday shows starting at 12 eastern.
posted by humanfont at 5:07 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm at the Cheltenham Literature Festival here in the UK right now. PJ O'Rourke's doing a session here at 5pm London time, and we have tickets.

O'Rourke's already expressed his own disgust with Trump and confirmed his personal decision to vote for Hillary. He doesn't pretend to like her policies or world view, but recognises that the overwhelming priority in this election is denying Trump the White House.

That's the only sane decision any thinking conservative can come to this time round, I think, and I look forward to hearing Peej develop the point. I really can't imagine a better conjunction of speaker and developing news on this particular day.
posted by Paul Slade at 5:10 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Trump supporters I know are still going to vote for him because they don't care what he says.

I said that way upthread. Last night, my Facebook feed was jumping with Trump supporters posting:

1. Bill cheated on Hillary
2. People can say whatever they want in a private conversation
3. If you think THAT was offensive, you've never heard "real men" talk in a locker room
4. Hillary and Benghazi and she set free a child molester.

People like us are GRAR and SEE, He IS a monster! But look at Trump's supporters and note their reactions.

They don't care.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 5:16 AM on October 9, 2016 [14 favorites]

Data point from my conservative area of seacoast New Hampshire. Our neighbors across the street, an older couple with whom I've spoken only a few times in the five years we've been here, stuck a Trump sign on their lawn a few weeks ago. It's the first political sign I've ever seen them put up.

It's gone this morning.
posted by schoolgirl report at 5:18 AM on October 9, 2016 [92 favorites]

They don't care.

Some of them must.
posted by pracowity at 5:19 AM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Some of them must.

Sure, the ones that make his support go down from 43% to 38%. The rest doesn't.
posted by sour cream at 5:21 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

I've been struggling with some PTSD issues related to upcoming surgery the past few days, and I just want to say how grateful I am to have been able to share this amazing roller coaster ride with all of you. So many insightful and funny and thought-provoking comments--this thread has really lifted me up, so thank you all many times.

*throws tiny handful of confetti into the air*
posted by kinnakeet at 5:22 AM on October 9, 2016 [44 favorites]

Hamdog consumers remorse

Not only would this make a fine user name, but it pretty much describes the GOP reaction over the last day or so. Not enough Pepto-Bismol in the nation.
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:22 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

O'Rourke's already expressed his own disgust with Trump and confirmed his personal decision to vote for Hillary.

I don't care much for P.J. O'Rourke, but I remember a lot of what he says because, inexplicably, I liked him when I was a little girl. I also liked Lewis Grizzard. I was a weird kid.

Anyway, I have thought a lot lately of something he said about sociopolitical movements in general. In paraphrase, O'Rourke said that wherever the beautiful young women are going, that is where the future lies. He came up with this observation when he was a young hippie angling for all the girls he could get, but there's a grain of truth in it. I'm not about to judge the beauty of anyone involved, but I can see where most of the young women are going, and they're not taking the Trump Train. This, at least, is some reason for hope.
posted by Countess Elena at 5:24 AM on October 9, 2016 [13 favorites]

They don't care.

Some of them must.

Nah, many really, really don't. My cousin's father-in-law posted that thing on Facebook about being more concerned about what Clinton has done vs. what Trump has said. I commented and asked what about the things Trump has done - stiffing contractors, cheating on taxes, sexually assaulting women? He didn't respond, but my uncle also commented on the post bashing Hillary as a liar, to which he responded cheerfully.

He legit doesn't care. This is the person he wants leading the country he's leaving to his granddaughter and grandson.
posted by chainsofreedom at 5:24 AM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

In paraphrase, O'Rourke said that wherever the beautiful young women are going, that is where the future lies.

As a former target of his gaze, I would bet this has more to do with trying to excuse his habit of ogling young women than anything else -- "I was looking at the future!!"
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 5:27 AM on October 9, 2016 [8 favorites]

I just saw this on my facebook feed:

"Trump still refuses to drop out of race.

Now Republicans know what it feels like to be forced to carry something to term."


And Jesus said unto them, If thou wouldst salve that burn, go into the hills above Galilee, and gather up the snow and ice which lieth there in winter, and place them upon the area so afflicted.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 5:31 AM on October 9, 2016 [47 favorites]

Politico: "As of now, GOP voters largely want the party to stand behind Trump. Nearly three-quarters of Republican voters, 74 percent, surveyed on Saturday said party officials should continue to support Trump. Only 13 percent think the party shouldn’t back him."
posted by octothorpe at 5:32 AM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

P. J. O'Rourke was a young hippie? That's a depressing image.

Seriously he and his ilk of so-called "thoughtful conservatives" have had nothing bad to say about decades of hypocrisy, racism, misogyny, corruption, and intellectual failure on the right. He may be doing the right thing now in opposing Trump, but like his fellow conservative "intellectuals" (lol at fearfully anti-intellectual "intellectuals") he bears significant responsibility for how we got here.
posted by spitbull at 5:33 AM on October 9, 2016 [11 favorites]

Mother Jones: New Tapes Reveal Trump Lewdly Discussing his Daughter, Black Women, Threesomes, and More

The transcripts of those tapes is just sickening. I don't have the stomach to actually listen to them.
posted by twirlypen at 5:33 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Of course many Republicans care. Look at the defections of elected Rs or even conservative personalities like Hugh Hewitt. I'm not surprised that many vocal defenders on FB are going to keep supporting him. That's kind of their deal! But there were always a lot of non-vocal supporters of Trump, folks who felt like they had no other choice. Republican women in particular, the ones who voted Obama 08 and Romney 12 - I don't think they stick with Trump now.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 5:34 AM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

He legit doesn't care. This is the person he wants leading the country he's leaving to his granddaughter and grandson.

Let him know, if he doesn't already, that both of them might be drafted to fight in a war Trump started.
posted by XMLicious at 5:35 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

He legit doesn't care. This is the person he wants leading the country he's leaving to his granddaughter and grandson.

Let him know, if he doesn't already, that both of them might be drafted to fight in a war Trump started.

He would like that, as he is a veteran. No higher honor in his mind.
posted by chainsofreedom at 5:37 AM on October 9, 2016

Of course many Republicans care.

Distressingly the polls say otherwise.

They really are the party of this, I guess.
posted by Artw at 5:39 AM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

Wow. This story. This election. Even the Pakistani papers are running a very lightly cleaned up transcript of the tape.

The response here to the election is weird. There's some of what Tarumba mentioned upthread - a feeling that this just confirms their worst suspicions about Americans. There's also a good bit of schadenfreude about the lecturer on democracy and human rights being at serious risk of electing a fascist misogynistic racist clown to the presidency. While I can understand where the schadenfreude comes from, I am a) far too worried about how bad things might get for family and friends in particular and vulnerable groups in general, b) far too worried about the implications for the world should the US disintegrate (the crumbling of great powers always being accompanied by great upheaval), and c) far too cognizant of the resurgence of the far right in too many places, including right here, to be able to take any pleasure in Trump's ascendancy. Even this tape and the outrage it has engendered has left me with this ambivalent ache because it underlines all the things that weren't a bridge too far for all too many.
posted by bardophile at 5:42 AM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

I've seen a few conversions on my facebook feed. A few are doubling down. Not surprising to me, these are all guys - mid-40s, white, Western PA - if those things matter to you. The girls on the other hand... most are silent (which is pretty huge for a few of them who have been posting one meme after another for months), but this was the last straw for a handful of friends and they've expressed their dismay with various versions of "I'm done." Like the guys, the girls are mid-40s, white, upper middle class, college educated, but mostly grew up in NE Ohio and live in OH, PA, & FL.

Based on my sample of friends in swing states, I gotta say this hurt him. Badly. Really wish my mom wasn't on a cruise somewhere this week - I'd love to hear her take. She & her friends are all long-time active Republicans in NE OH. She's been struggling with Trump and keeps telling me of friends who aren't going to vote for President... I think she's been testing those waters herself.
posted by imbri at 5:42 AM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

I guess we have different definitions of "many." You only need 5% of Trump voters to vote for Hillary to make this a significant landslide. If the polls don't change at all, I'll be disheartened. But I think they will.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 5:42 AM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

> P. J. O'Rourke was a young hippie? That's a depressing image.

The hippie culture of the late 60s-early 70s was not as monolithically leftist as nostalgia has made it. Most editions of the Whole Earth Catalog, for example, had pages advocating technocracy, Ayn Rand's published works, and gun ownership rights, all alongside other pages discussing the sorts of things you'd expect: communal living, collectivism, setting up farming and retail cooperatives, freeganism (although that term as such didn't exist at the time)...
posted by at by at 5:44 AM on October 9, 2016 [18 favorites]

...albeit because of second night of Hamdog consumers remorse...

The same one or did you eat another?

The same one. I mistakingly assumed that, as the sign clearly stated 'Gourmet', I was purchasing and consuming a quality/class Hamdog. My innards have profoundly disagreed with this assessment in the intervening time since, and have been making vigorous attempts to defenestrate all traces of this product. I should have noted the first few comments on the FPP. Woe, verily, am I.

Hamdog: initially looks superficially interesting, but could leave you feeling ill and regretful for a long time if you foolishly commit...

{distantly hears the disembodied voice of a mod yelling 'Keep comments on point here'}

...um, somewhat like Trump, I guess.
posted by Wordshore at 5:45 AM on October 9, 2016 [12 favorites]

I feel like a broken record, but at this point, the election is about turnout. Do Trump's reluctant supporters turn out to vote or do they stay home? Do the people who were really holding their nose to vote for him decide to vote for Johnson instead? And similarly, does this make reluctant Hillary supporters more likely to vote? (My canvass report from yesterday would say that it does, although there were a few people who I'm concerned maybe won't be able to bring themselves to put the ballot in the mailbox.) We are not counting on changing the minds of your terrible Facebook friends. We are counting on changing the behavior of the people who aren't posting about this election on Facebook because they find the whole thing too depressing.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:45 AM on October 9, 2016 [24 favorites]

at by, I was there. (70s version)
posted by spitbull at 5:48 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

> I am far too worried about how bad things might get for family and friends in particular and vulnerable groups in general...

I had the unpleasant responsibility the other day of telling my parents that if Trump wins, my parents would probably never see their foreign-born in-laws nor their multiracial grandchildren again, as my and my siblings' families would be moving overseas before his administration could act on his promises to impound or deport us.
posted by at by at 5:54 AM on October 9, 2016 [13 favorites]

I am skeptical that a poll conducted immediately after the news broke and with only a 1 day sample will accurately reflect the shift underway. It will take a few days for the results to show up.
posted by humanfont at 5:56 AM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

(This is just a small personal note thanking everyone here on MetaFilter for their comments and general humanity. I'm Canadian and I am horribly obsessed with this never-ending dog-shit conveyor of an election campaign you guys are inflicting on the world [didja hear how our last federal election cycle was a whole 78 days long? Our longest ever! Amazing, eh?!], and yet I work with people who call Justin Trudeau 'a fag' and say how Trump would be a great president because you guys need a strongman and a businessman running the show, and so commentary like this thread and the links you are all posting is the only thing keeping me sane right now. This is my second Metafilter user account, and dammit if that ten dollars I've spent hasn't been one of my best internet investments ever. Keep up the good work. Anyway, as you were...)
posted by spoobnooble II: electric bugaboo at 6:00 AM on October 9, 2016 [65 favorites]

Let him know, if he doesn't already, that both of them might be drafted to fight in a war Trump started.

I'm pretty sure that either way, we're going to start a major new war during the next president's administration.
posted by indubitable at 6:11 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Michael Che on SNL: “You started off your campaign by accusing all Mexicans as being rapists. Now you’re on tape explaining how you sexually assault women. The only way it could be more hypocritical is if you said it in Spanish.”
posted by drezdn at 6:13 AM on October 9, 2016 [63 favorites]

Can we please stop with the grotesque "jokes" about grabbing? Every time I read one it's like a punch in the gut because it's taking a joke about sexual assault and making another joke about it.
posted by winna at 6:18 AM on October 9, 2016 [20 favorites]

In my darker moments, I can almost convince myself that all this is just confirmation of what Douglas Adams had to say about heads of state.
posted by Mooski at 6:19 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Mod note: Yeah, another haha-sexual-assault thing deleted. As I asked earlier, please cut out the gross genitalia / rapey jokes.
posted by taz (staff) at 6:21 AM on October 9, 2016 [18 favorites]

P. J. O'Rourke was a young hippie? That's a depressing image.

His book "Age and Guile Beat Youth, Innocence, and a Bad Haircut" has a bunch of stuff he wrote as a 70's New Left type. Some entertaining, some not.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:23 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Trump is tweeting.
posted by howfar at 6:23 AM on October 9, 2016

They don't care.

Who cares about them? Trumpsters are beyond reason and help. But they only get Trump to Nixon-McGovern landslide numbers. The people he needs to get above 40% do care.

And regarding white people, I will definitely be happy when demographics turn even more against them. And I say this as a white guy. White people are the only group overwhelmingly supporting fascism right now, by 15+ points. Trump's losing PoC by over 50 points. If America was as white as the UK (88% vs 68% of the electorate), we'd be looking at a Brexit situation and a Trump presidency.
posted by chris24 at 6:24 AM on October 9, 2016 [48 favorites]

Considering how much Trump tries to crush anyone who opposes/doesn't support him enough, the Republicans but really hope he doesn't win.
posted by drezdn at 6:26 AM on October 9, 2016

That Trump tweet also makes it look like he thinks he's the victim.
posted by drezdn at 6:27 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Someone really needs to start asking people that still support Trump what Donald would have to say or do to lose their support.
posted by drezdn at 6:27 AM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

Yeah, I'm a white lady who may never forgive white people for this. (Or men.)
posted by schadenfrau at 6:27 AM on October 9, 2016 [21 favorites]

Rudy Giuliani on whether Trump was describing sexual assault on 2005 audio: "That's what he was talking about"
posted by sporkwort at 6:29 AM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

Someone really needs to start asking people that still support Trump what Donald would have to say or do to lose their support.

Why ask a question when you already know the answer? The answer is nothing.
posted by argybarg at 6:30 AM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

If America was as white as the UK (88% vs 68% of the electorate), we'd be looking at a Brexit situation and a Trump presidency.

Oh god that's a good point. I mean, those of us mefites who are white can always remember that it's not an inexorable law that white people be deluded, racist assholes, but still, demographic change can't come fast enough.
posted by Frowner at 6:31 AM on October 9, 2016 [11 favorites]

So, less than 24 hours after Trump says he just starts kissing them and grabbing them by the pussy because he can do anything he wants, as "a star", less than 24 hours after that:

A poll of likely registered Republican voters who have a landline and answer calls from numbers they don't recognize with seven minutes to kill - of those old white racists, 25% are like "f* this I'm out"?

Sweet.
posted by petebest at 6:32 AM on October 9, 2016 [8 favorites]

Giuliani looks fucking broken in that video. My schaden is getting freuded.
posted by R.F.Simpson at 6:33 AM on October 9, 2016 [31 favorites]

MSNBC is reporting that "sources say that" Kellyanne is considering resigning from the campaign.
posted by about_time at 6:34 AM on October 9, 2016 [8 favorites]

I don't mind demographic change, but I'd also like to think that (my fellow) white people can learn and do better.

This election is, in part, a referendum on whether we think that's an effort worth making. I hope we choose the right answer.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 6:34 AM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

It shouldn't surprise anyone that there are a fair number of dead-enders who think there's nothing wrong with what Trump said or that it doesn't matter. It is fairly hard to get a person to change their mind about anything.

But here's the deal: The balance of power is fine enough that if the Republicans lose even 25% of their usual support, they will lose most of their statewide elections and the Presidency. If the disaffected R's show up and simply don't pull the lever for Trump it's bad enough, but participation in prez year elections tends to be higher because of the President and as I said far, far upthread, if those people stay home then the Republican downballot ticket will be in flames. They will almost certainly lose the Senate.

They have a much tighter grip on the House because of gerrymandering and the fact that a lot of districts aren't nearly as finely balanced as the state/national population, but at 25% stay home you are looking at losing a lot of ground there too. A fair number of long-time established players will find themselves out of a job, and that will dramatically shift the balance of power within the party itself.

I expect a fair number of Republican politicians to quit politics entirely after this fiasco. The fireworks aren't fun any more after you put out an eye.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:40 AM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

needs to start asking people that still support Trump what Donald would have to say or do to lose their support.

Fwiw, I heard exactly that question a couple of times yesterday, one to Guliani as he was fleeing Trump Tower.
posted by petebest at 6:40 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Just the phrase "fleeing Trump Tower" fills me with satisfaction.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 6:42 AM on October 9, 2016 [34 favorites]

I don't mind demographic change, but I'd also like to think that (my fellow) white people can learn and do better.

I'd like to think that too but empirical evidence doesn't seem to support that wish. One thing that I've gotten out of this election is a profound sadness toward and embarrassment for my own personal demographic.
posted by octothorpe at 6:43 AM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

This election is, in part, a referendum on whether we think that's an effort worth making. I hope we choose the right answer.

As a spokesman for white people, I can assure you that:
* Many of us have.
* Some of us will.
* Many of the rest view suggesting there's a problem AS the problem.
posted by delfin at 6:44 AM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Oh and no, I had never heard of "Billy Bush" before either. And hope to be there again soon.
posted by petebest at 6:45 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

imbri: the girls are mid-40s
In that case, I strongly prefer the word 'women'.
posted by Too-Ticky at 6:45 AM on October 9, 2016 [28 favorites]

I'd also like to think that (my fellow) white people can learn and do better.

At the point that 60% of my fellow white people are voting for a clearly racist, fascist, insane, unprepared buffoon, I worry they can't. They're not choosing Cruz or Pence, who are definitely awful but at least mentally capable of governing. They're voting for someone so obviously outside any qualification besides channeling their hate that clearly the only thing they ultimately care about is their hate. I'm not sure how you reach them and I'm not sure that labor should be on us.

The good news is that the younger generation doesn't have as bad of issues, so demographic change will not only reduce the influence of angry white people, it'll reduce the toxicity percentage among white people.
posted by chris24 at 6:46 AM on October 9, 2016 [11 favorites]

From this new NYT article Inside Trump Tower, an Increasingly Upset and Alone Donald Trump: "Mr. Christie and Mr. Priebus told Mr. Trump that the situation with other Republicans was becoming dire. Other advisers assured Mr. Trump that attacking Mrs. Clinton over her husband’s behavior with women, and over reports that she had defended his behavior, would help rally Republicans again."

You couldn't pay me to watch tonight's debate.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 6:47 AM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

Earlier on CNN I saw a woman who said none of the Trump Tape stuff mattered because it was a distraction because "we've been fighting this since November 2008". Wonder what this is.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:47 AM on October 9, 2016 [31 favorites]

Dilemma: Allow bardophile Jr to watch the debate with me or not? On the one hand, I'm delighted he's interested and we don't get to spend enough time with each other these days. On the other hand, I really don't know what might come out of Trump's mouth.
posted by bardophile at 6:48 AM on October 9, 2016

Is this the real-life version of A Face In The Crowd? Sure feels like it.
posted by kinnakeet at 6:51 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Damn Stephanopolis was David Frost to Rudy's Nixon. He got Rudy on camera agreeing that it was sexual assault.
posted by humanfont at 6:51 AM on October 9, 2016 [35 favorites]

I expect a fair number of Republican politicians to quit politics entirely after this fiasco. The fireworks aren't fun any more after you put out an eye.

I think you underestimate how many think that makes it MORE fun (till it's theirs, but they never think it can happen to them).
posted by phearlez at 6:53 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Holy shit, you guys – there's a debate tonight.

Multiple reputable sources have hinted that anti-Trump operatives have two more bombshells ready to drop soon.

And after the Clinton campaign's masterstroke with Alicia Machado, I fully expect them to deploy a similar revelation tonight.

The guy has been a vile creep for decades. All they have to do is scour the public record for his own words, and hold them up for the American people to see. He'll always have some floor of support among the deplorables, yes – but there's every reason to believe that the anti-Trump cannons are already loaded with thirty days of ammunition. He's playing defense from here on out.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 6:55 AM on October 9, 2016 [17 favorites]

How many people do you think I am
Pretend I am somebody else
You can pretend I'm and old millionaire
A millionaire, washing his hands
Rattle the bones, dreams that stick out
A medical chart on the wall
Soft violins, and hands touch your throat
Everyone wants to explode

And when your hands get dirty
Nobody knows you at all
Don't have a window to slip out of
Lights on, nobody home

Click click- see ya later
Beta beta- no time to rest
Pika pika- risky business
All that blood, will never cover that mess.
-Swamp, Talking Heads
posted by Meatbomb at 6:55 AM on October 9, 2016 [11 favorites]

Ray Waldron, was the MSNBC or CNN? Cause a woman said the same thing on msnbc. Same person or same taking points?
posted by about_time at 6:56 AM on October 9, 2016

bardophile, my daughter asked to watch it early last week, and I thought, "well, it's not a school night, I guess so?" But now I realize I'd have to have that Trump talk (AKA, it's never OK for someone to say or do this, and you MUST tell a parent or other trusted grownup if anybody ever acts like this around you"). Which of course we've had before, but WTF it feels so unfair to have it before a PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE.
posted by instamatic at 6:59 AM on October 9, 2016 [29 favorites]

Another (2010) Trump Sexual Assault

The woman told Burnett: "Trump took Tic Tacs, suggested I take them also. He then leaned in, catching me off guard, and kissed me almost on lips. I was really freaked out. ... After (the meeting), Trump asked me to come into his office alone. Was really unsure what to do. ... Figured I could handle myself. Anyway, once in his office he kept telling me how special I am and gave me his cell, asked me to call him. I ran the hell out of there."

Note that the headline reads "Source: Trump attempted boardroom kiss", when the article clearly states that it happened. That's not an attempt, CNN editor man, that's a felony.
posted by petebest at 7:00 AM on October 9, 2016 [18 favorites]

As a preview of how horrible this could get, Trump tweeted a link to a new Breitbart interview out today with Juanita Broaddrick in which she graphicly decribes her alleged rape by Bill Clinton.
posted by procrastination at 7:01 AM on October 9, 2016

Which makes me wonder: are Dem parents the only ones having that talk with their kids this week? If not, how are others managing their cognitive dissonance?
posted by instamatic at 7:02 AM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Uhhh... Trump retweeted a Breitbart article: "EXCLUSIVE — Video Interview: Bill Clinton Accuser Juanita Broaddrick Relives Brutal Rapes".

I think this is the hill they're determined to live or die on.
posted by Talez at 7:04 AM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

how horrible this could get

In a town hall setting, in front of undecided voters, Trump going nasty and negative and explicit will be far more horrible for his electoral chances than Clinton's. It'll make him and Trumpsters feel better, but horrify anyone else. So while it will I'm sure not be fun for Clinton, I'd wager she's willing to suffer that pain to see Trump damage himself even more.
posted by chris24 at 7:06 AM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

was the MSNBC or CNN? Cause a woman said the same thing on msnbc. Same person or same taking points?

Hmm. I thought it was CNN but it might've been MSNBC. I've been flipping back and forth.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:08 AM on October 9, 2016

The Sad Surrogates Still Spinning for Trump

At that moment, even though it was nearly 1 a.m. on the East Coast, [Scottie Nell] Hughes asked Navarro to stop saying that word because her daughter was watching. “Don’t tell me you’re offended when I say ‘pussy’ but you’re not offended when Donald Trump says it!” Navarro shot back.

Yeah Navarro was taking names.
posted by petebest at 7:11 AM on October 9, 2016 [28 favorites]

> You couldn't pay me to watch tonight's debate

You couldn't pay me not to! I've been an HRC fan for years, and I'm greatly looking forward to seeing her be her calm,intelligent self. I'm not going to let that idiot take away my pleasure of seeing Hillary elected president.
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:11 AM on October 9, 2016 [37 favorites]

I think this may have been the last straw for my son, the channer, who had been supporting Trump. All of a sudden he's gotten real quiet when politics come up.
posted by Biblio at 7:13 AM on October 9, 2016 [51 favorites]

Has anyone had the stomach to watch the Broaddrick interview? :\
posted by stolyarova at 7:14 AM on October 9, 2016

Trump's Twitter feed is now open war against his own party:

So many self-righteous hypocrites. Watch their poll numbers - and elections - go down!

posted by Talez at 7:14 AM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

So even channers think this is gross? Wow.
posted by Artw at 7:16 AM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Oh, Trump has his phone today without any supervision. Nice.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:16 AM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Clinton sat through that Mary J Blige interview. She's prepared for awkward.
posted by rikschell at 7:16 AM on October 9, 2016 [11 favorites]

Trump's Twitter feed is now open war against his own party:

Oh good.

I wonder if he can be shifted on to the subject at the debate, because that would be grand.
posted by Artw at 7:17 AM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

So even channers think this is gross? Wow.

They're just regrouping. Trump's comments are perfect chan-bro fodder. Within a day or so they'll be revomiting Trump with glee.
posted by argybarg at 7:19 AM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Has anyone had the stomach to watch the Broaddrick interview? :\

Yes, it's very hard to watch. She describes being raped by Bill Clinton.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 7:19 AM on October 9, 2016

I hope this sinks his already damaged chances of returning to an entertainment career too. He's really not the cute business clown now.
posted by Artw at 7:20 AM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

So many self-righteous hypocrites. Watch their poll numbers - and elections - go down!

That one looks like it came from iOS. Interesting.
posted by jammer at 7:22 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

So even channers think this is gross? Wow.

They're just regrouping. Trump's comments are perfect chan-bro fodder. Within a day or so they'll be revomiting Trump with glee.

They've organized enough harassment campaigns agains women centered around threats of sexual assault it's actually surprising it's given them any pause at all.
posted by Artw at 7:22 AM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

The closest press expected to get today to Mike Pence. Not taken to site of private fundraiser. (twitter video)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:22 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

In a town hall format, is there anything stopping a candidate from physically looming over the other candidate?
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:23 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

WSJ: Pence Tells Donors He Is Fully Committed to Trump
posted by chris24 at 7:23 AM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

OK, what conclusion are we supposed to draw with the Broadderick stuff coming up? Is it time for America to finally draw the conclusion that men as a class of people are unfit to govern?
posted by Sublimity at 7:24 AM on October 9, 2016 [40 favorites]

In a town hall format, is there anything stopping a candidate from physically looming over the other candidate?

No, but it would be beyond stupid to do so. Imagine the Lazio moment from 2000 but so much worse.
posted by chris24 at 7:25 AM on October 9, 2016

We should remember that taking the entire GOP down is exactly in character for Trump. Trump never loses, he is only failed and he spreads his losses around rather than accepting them personally. He's done this forever in business, such as offering the IPO on his failing casino properties so that the investors would take the hit for the unrepayable loans instead of it hitting his personal fortune. His business partners always take it on the chin, and in this case it's the GOP that finds itself getting screwed.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:25 AM on October 9, 2016 [72 favorites]

Sublimity, I've been wondering that myself.
posted by instamatic at 7:26 AM on October 9, 2016

Betteridge's law.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:26 AM on October 9, 2016

Which of course means Trump will probably do it. #TrumpsRazor
posted by chris24 at 7:26 AM on October 9, 2016

Oh, Trump has his phone today without any supervision. Nice.

I think Conway already bailed out.
posted by mikelieman at 7:26 AM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

In a town hall format, is there anything stopping a candidate from physically looming over the other candidate?

The United States Secret Service.
posted by clavdivs at 7:27 AM on October 9, 2016 [15 favorites]

Can someone point me to a detailed description of how the questioners in the audience were selected? If Gallup chose undecided voters as of a week ago then how many of them will still be undecided tonight?
posted by DanSachs at 7:27 AM on October 9, 2016

I'm not really sure why anyone thinks that any "revelations" regarding Broaddrick or anyone else will give Hillary any pause whatsoever. Sure, they may be painful inside, but she has to know they're coming , and have prepared for them ... and she's been married to Bill for for decades now, so it's not like she hasn't dealt with this before. I don't think there's much of anything that Trump could come up with during this debate that she won't just steamroller over.
posted by jferg at 7:28 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

I guess what I'm saying is that young dudes like my son can grow up and do the right thing.
posted by Biblio at 7:28 AM on October 9, 2016 [14 favorites]

I'm counting on you Anderson Cooper. I know you've got it in you. Anderson Cooper was live on cnn talking to Pam Bondi, in Orlando after the tragedy, and he was pretty good at challenging her. And he actually seems to relish those moments.

I hope Cooper has a few moments where he challenges Trump on the lies Trump will no doubt say.
posted by cashman at 7:28 AM on October 9, 2016 [11 favorites]

The Crotchgrabber - a story that is timely and related, but not about Donald Trump. It appeared in the New Yorker in early August.

It was very personal to me. I had a man grab me by the crotch once. I was in a crowded casual pub-style restaurant. I was wending my way down an aisle by the bar looking for a seat. In passing a group of guys, a hand reached out, slipped between my legs and grabbed my crotch hard, squeezing a few times, and let go. He was saying something too but I could not hear it.

As this writer describes, I had a strong immediate visceral reaction of violation, anger, outrage. Her description is so true to what I experienced.

"In case you haven’t been on the receiving end of this sort of assault, you should know the primal physiological response it evokes—in this woman, anyway. The stomach drops, as if you’ve been shoved backward from a skyscraper and are flailing through space. Time dismantles. There are more frames per second, and people’s facial features become very specific. .."

I stopped dead in my tracks, whirled to the guys, saw one looking at me and I punched him in the face as hard as I could - I had a large ring on and it drew blood. He tipped on his bar-stool and fell over while I screamed every profanity I could think of. His friends all immediately went insane with laughter.

Then I suddenly became terrified that he or they might hit me back or hurt me so I got away from them as fast as I could. I made my way to the other side of the circular bar and told the bartender what happened and insisted he throw that group of guys out. I knew the bartender, he and I worked together previously at a club and we would never have tolerated that behavior. He went and talked to them and came back and said "They are firefighters, really good guys - one just behaved like a jerk - you didn't even hit the one who did it." He urged me to let it go and I kept insisting he throw them out, it wasn't safe for other women. He wouldn't so I went table to table of women, telling them really loudly what happened to me and not to go near those guys. Sadly, to add insult to injury, the bartender and patrons who heard me acted as if I were the unreasonable one, or maybe drunk (not). Even my two women companions disappointed me, instead of being as outraged as I was, they seemed to be embrarassed by me making a scene. I never went back to that place and those women are no longer my friends.

That was more than 30 years ago and I hadn't thought of it in years. I did recall it during some of the long feminist threads when women related harms they'd experienced, but I did not post it. I don't think of it often anymore, I didn't even think of it with this Trump stuff. But when I read this woman's description in her article, it made me cry.

That's what Donald Trump is talking about with his casual pussy grabbing boasts.
posted by madamjujujive at 7:29 AM on October 9, 2016 [276 favorites]

Just to be crystal clear: (DOJ)

Sexual assault is any type of sexual contact or behavior that occurs without the explicit consent of the recipient.

Donald couldn't have said it better himself.
posted by petebest at 7:29 AM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

Not only does Trump have his phone back, but his rate of tweeting/retweeting is starting to approach the pace of comments in this thread. Whoo, ok!
posted by instamatic at 7:30 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Conway is an evil genius. She says horrible things with exquisite self-control and seems so personable and reasonable in the process. I'm sure that, like Putin, she has convinced herself she can play Trump as a useful idiot. Which is equivalent to saying "I can really get this house clean if I just mix this ammonia and this bleach together."
posted by argybarg at 7:31 AM on October 9, 2016 [13 favorites]

A wide variety of women support Trump: blonde and brunette
posted by Countess Elena at 7:31 AM on October 9, 2016

We should remember that taking the entire GOP down is exactly in character for Trump. Trump never loses, he is only failed and he spreads his losses around rather than accepting them personally. He's done this forever in business, such as offering the IPO on his failing casino properties so that the investors would take the hit for the unrepayable loans instead of it hitting his personal fortune. His business partners always take it on the chin, and in this case it's the GOP that finds itself getting screwed.

See also his role in the collapse of the USFL.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:32 AM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

I'm relieved I have a baseball playoff game to go to tonight so I won't be tempted to watch the debate. It's going to be the ugliest thing in American politics since Burr shot Hamilton.
posted by dry white toast at 7:33 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm not really sure why anyone thinks that any "revelations" regarding Broaddrick or anyone else will give Hillary any pause whatsoever.

Indeed. She and Bill worked this out decades ago, and she'd fully processed her feelings. IF Donnie is unhinged enough to go there, she'll go to her faith's sustaining her marriage through the most difficult of times.

And there's always that court conference about the sexual assault of a minor scheduled for October 14th hanging over Donnie's head. Especially in light of (a) his confession to sexual assault of others and (b) Rudy's confirmation of (a).

Popcorn and bourbon. Need to get another handle of WT101.
posted by mikelieman at 7:33 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Jamelle Bouie is killing it on Twitter right now:

The most interesting thing I have witnessed this year is the open argument that Trump voters essentially lack agency. "Do not generalize, just because they want to empower a racist authoritarian doesn't mean they themselves hold those views." The only reason this argument holds any water is because so much of the conversation about Trump has been unmoored from consequences. We treat Trump voting like a temper tantrum, as if there aren't real consequences for real people if Trump becomes president. It all lays ground for the inevitable argument, post-Trump, that we shouldn't hold these voters responsible for empowering a racist. White racism has almost plunged the world into darkness, but it is unconscionable to hold anyone responsible for it. They're good people, you see. Throughout American history white Americans have organized politically to inflict violence on people of color. That's what Trump is, and it is disturbing to see how people have resisted any talk of accountability for those backing that violence. In a real way, our dialogue around Trump has humanized and empathized with the potential mob while patently ignoring its potential victims. Which gets back to how unmoored Trump analysis is from the fact that what he is promising for nonwhites is criminal violence. Anyway, as I have said many times, I am from a place where Trump is quite popular, and there are very enthusiastic Trump backers in my life. I have no interest in demonizing people. But I am beyond frustrated with the focus on intentions of Trump voters.

I know there are a lot of conservatives and centrists (both right-of and left-of) that are going to be upset about this, but he's speaking the truth, and they're going to have to come to terms with it. To not do so, to valorize the disaffected white people (especially men) at the cost of everybody else, is already the kind of enabling that allowed Trump to rise in the first place. For conservatives in particular, there's going to have to be a realization that the whole argument about polarization being the fault of both sides is no longer something they can lean on. They're going to have to stop asking us to empathize with bigots and meet them half way, no matter how "honest" they came by that bigotry or how it's justified in their hearts, and start asking the bigots to empathize with women and PoC and LGBTQ people and religious minorities and every other group they've learned to hate. There can be no more excuses about honor culture, or dissembling on the necessity of the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Amendments, or the righteousness of sovereign citizens and patriot groups.

The real test, I think, will be whether they can make that pivot or they double down and continue to put the onus and the emotional labor on the targets of bigotry. If--and this is a huge if--they can manage that, I think there might be a chance to pull the right out of their descent into madness and evil before too much damage is done. But if they're not willing to do so, or hand-wave it away for other horrible shit like the Ryan budget or voter ID laws or devolving all civil rights laws to the state level (all of which will make things worse), then I'm not sure how things are going to improve. For me personally, every time someone asks me to empathize with a Trump voter (and whatever comes after), I'm going to make it a point to see how they empathize with the other side first. I'm tired of being told I'm the one who has to see it from the bigots' point of view before the bigots see it from their targets' point of view.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:34 AM on October 9, 2016 [83 favorites]

What I'm wondering though, is, if Pence quits, who will be the next VP pick? Who would possibly want to attach themselves to this monster?


Chris Christie. Although he and Rudy would have to duke it out.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 7:35 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Giuliani is getting nailed on Face The Nation.
posted by Sublimity at 7:36 AM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

BILL CLINTON IS NOT THE CANDIDATE.
BILL CLINTON IS NOT THE CANDIDATE.
BILL CLINTON IS NOT THE CANDIDATE.

OH MY FUCKING GOD

BILL CLINTON IS NOT THE GODDAMN CANDIDATE.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:39 AM on October 9, 2016 [63 favorites]

I don't mind demographic change, but I'd also like to think that (my fellow) white people can learn and do better.


Well, it good that you don't mind it....I think it's our only hope as a civil society.

When I was a kid, popular culture pushed that narrative that white people were were "learning" with shows like All in the Family and because racist hicks in the civil rights documentaries seemed so distant and backward. Modern day nazis were always portrayed as total kooks. It was a easy thing to believe.

Then came Stallone, Reagan, the explosion of TV evangelism, Bush I&II, a shit ton of talking heads and anti-PC comedians, all legitimizing a popular groundswell of fascist ideals. MANY white liberals buckled like their legs had been pulled out from under them.

So I'm hoping for significant demographic change and I'm hoping the fascist don't figure out their new angle on that too soon.
posted by bonobothegreat at 7:39 AM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

Given the format of the town hall, I don't see how Trump could bring up Bill. It's not a stump speech to his base where he can just shout allegations to the sound of cheering and applause. How does he bring it up in a natural conversation with a citizen?
"Hey, since you're asking me about health care, let me tell you about some horrible things from Bill Clintons past - btw you know Bill, married to that broad over there. I go golfing with him sometimes, he's shit at it though, I beat him every time. That's the thing though, you can't vote for a losers wife. In conclusion: MAGA! Hashtagnailedit!"
posted by like_neon at 7:39 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

If one candidate loses his shit and lunges at the other candidate, what do the Secret Service agents do? Are they close enough to throw themselves in between? Or -- would taser hooks even penetrate the orange crust?
posted by pracowity at 7:41 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

madamejujujive - when I cast my vote to reject Trump, you are one of the people I will be thinking of. I want a future in which this:

the bartender and patrons who heard me acted as if I were the unreasonable one, or maybe drunk (not). Even my two women companions disappointed me, instead of being as outraged as I was, they seemed to be embrarassed by me making a scene.

becomes ancient history.
posted by sallybrown at 7:41 AM on October 9, 2016 [47 favorites]

As a follow-on from my previous comment...I think the only thing looming out there that could in any way give Hillary pause at this point would be Trump going full kamikaze, and bringing solid proof of nastiness involving Bill and Jeffrey Epstein, which would probably involve taking himself down in the process ... which would be not out of character for Trump.
posted by jferg at 7:42 AM on October 9, 2016

I really don't think Trump will try anything physically. He can spit nails all he likes but he's a coward. But if I were a subordinate, I would try to stay out of vase-throwing range.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:43 AM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

Did they prep Giuliani AT ALL? He's openly admitting that what Donald described is sexual assault, and "if" it happened to anyone, it would be terrible. All he has as a defense is time passing. All of these idiots need to be asked "And what has changed to make Trump change his behavior/view between the age of 59 and now?"
posted by sallybrown at 7:43 AM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

Chuck Todd is crushing Giuliani on MTP. Wow.
posted by chris24 at 7:43 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Re: Juanita Broderick. I believe her. I believe women. That does not, in any way, shape or change the strong support I have for Hillary Clinton. Hillary is not Bill. Bill is a creep and likely raped Ms. Broderick. I will not excuse that. Again, Hillary, aside from being the most qualified person to ever run for the office, is. not. Bill. Clinton.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:43 AM on October 9, 2016 [50 favorites]

Given the format of the town hall, I don't see how Trump could bring up Bill.

Voter: You have said terrible, terrible things about women. How am I supposed to deal with that? (Probably not stated exactly like that, but that's the idea. I promise that there will be a question about Trump and women.)

Trump: let's talk about Bill Clinton! Here, I will blather about Bill Clinton!

I would be extraordinarily surprised if it doesn't come up. It's going to come up. I have a fair amount of faith in the Clinton campaign's ability to deal with it.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:44 AM on October 9, 2016

Giuliani is getting nailed on Face The Nation.

Seriously are we not doing phrasing?
posted by vuron at 7:44 AM on October 9, 2016 [14 favorites]

"Both sides can't throw stones, because both sides have sinned," says Rudy. They are knowingly walking themselves into the maw of millions of women who are tired of being blamed for men's behavior. These idiots have no one to blame but themselves.
posted by sallybrown at 7:46 AM on October 9, 2016 [38 favorites]

The fireworks aren't fun any more after you put out an eye.

The fireworks stop being fun when you put out your eye. Burning down other peoples' houses and neighborhoods is hilarious to these horrible horrible, people.
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:46 AM on October 9, 2016 [17 favorites]

I think you might be right about Conway, mikelieman.

This October 7th (day of) article in The New Yorker has a couple of foreshadows

{Gingrich said} "Her view is to intuit what he's good at, what he's bad at, and how to deal with them."

Heh. Guess what he's bad at?

Running Donald Trump's campaign is like being the drummer for Spinal Tap.
posted by petebest at 7:46 AM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

BILL CLINTON IS NOT THE CANDIDATE.

It was less than 48 hours between these two statements:

• "I want to win this election on my policies for the future, not on Bill Clinton’s past.... Jobs, trade, ending illegal immigration, veteran care, and strengthening our military is what I really want to be talking about." link
• "I've said some foolish things but there's a big difference between the words and actions of other people. Bill Clinton has actually abused women and Hillary has bullied, attacked, shamed, and intimidated his victims. We will discuss this more in the coming days. See you at the debate on Sunday." link

posted by peeedro at 7:47 AM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

If one candidate loses his shit and lunges at the other candidate, what do the Secret Service agents do? Are they close enough to throw themselves in between? Or -- would taser hooks even penetrate the orange crust?

Was wondering about this last night because I do think there is chance that Donald will do the looming thing at least. I expect that I'm not the only woman who has had a man, get angry and frustrated in a conversation and 'loomed', perhaps walked a few feet towards them and 'loomed' or sat up at say a board table and seemed like the want to come through the table at them and 'loomed.' Donald is the exact type of domineering male that does this and coupled with his lack of control when this don't go his way I can see it happening.
posted by Jalliah at 7:49 AM on October 9, 2016 [12 favorites]

But if they're not willing to do so, or hand-wave it away for other horrible shit like the Ryan budget or voter ID laws or devolving all civil rights laws to the state level (all of which will make things worse), then I'm not sure how things are going to improve.

Well, if we're counting on them to reexamine policy positions and bad faith argument that led to Trump's rise, we've already seen how the right wing echo chamber deals with self introspection after 2012. And even McCain and Flake and Sasse are not "never Trump" based on his policy goals, they share those 95%. They're only opposed to his crass appeals to racism, or less charitably and in McCain's case, to his unelectability. None of this would've been happening if he led by 5 in Colorado instead of trailed, and overt voter suppression, the Ryan budget, zero taxes for the rich, and destroying the power of the federal government in all areas other that military will remain the Republican party platform. That's who they were before Trump, and it's who they are now. It's who they would've been with a Rubio nomination. It's who they will be if Sasse become a national figure. Trump is not an aberration, and they're only walking away because he was too incompetent and deranged to mask their destructive agenda behind a facade of reasonable sounding but fundamentally dishonest discourse like Pence, or Romney or Ryan.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:50 AM on October 9, 2016 [19 favorites]

Y'all have lost me with MAGA. ??
posted by thebrokedown at 7:50 AM on October 9, 2016

Regarding understanding the remaining Trump voters: I want to understand them.

The same way researchers want to understand cancer: the better to destroy it. The better to prevent it from arising again. The better to quash its rise in other patients (countries).
posted by nat at 7:51 AM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

MAGA is Trump's MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 7:51 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

HRC can take it. Not a thing. For her.
posted by petebest at 7:51 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Y'all have lost me with MAGA. ??

Make America Great Again
posted by Jalliah at 7:52 AM on October 9, 2016

Don't think this has come up here yet. From the Washington Post. After failing to seduce Nancy O'Dell, Trump reportedly tried to have her fired.
posted by DanSachs at 7:52 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

A Trump collapse could give Democrats back the House. Here’s the math.

Not likely, but we can dream.
posted by chris24 at 7:53 AM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

IfDon't think this has come up here yet.

It has, almost immediately after Nancy's name was revealed, but it's always good to make sure people see it.
posted by cashman at 7:53 AM on October 9, 2016

This small thing brought me joy this morning: Rosie O'Donnell retweeting Cecile Richards praising Lindy West's editorial.
posted by sallybrown at 7:54 AM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

I wonder how just how extremely stoked LMM was to refer to Trump as a POS on SNL and then insert a few bars of "Never gone be president now"
posted by angrycat at 7:54 AM on October 9, 2016 [23 favorites]

Ah. Thank you. I was afraid it was going to stand for something I couldn't say in front of my grandmother. So this is better.
posted by thebrokedown at 7:54 AM on October 9, 2016

Just the phrase "fleeing Trump Tower" fills me with satisfaction.

Maybe there's a giant eagle available to rescue Meredith.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:54 AM on October 9, 2016 [11 favorites]

Re: Understanding Trump voters

Television is the answer you seek.
posted by petebest at 7:55 AM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Didn't the Clinton campaign say they were saving their substantive response to the Friday tapes until just before the debate? Wouldn't be at all surprised if that contained a little something extra to move the story on a bit.

Something I think I said to calm myself post-RNC convention, when it looked as if Trump would manage to pivot to a more reasonable persona (and how long ago was that...) was that even if he did, the Clinton video servers must be packed with everything he'd said in the primaries - and that he'd been being Trump for decades before that in the presence of cameras and microphones, so how much more must there be?

On the other hand, no matter what Broaddrick says, or what else from HRC's past as a lawyer defending guilty parties, it's all been picked clean in the endless investigations against her or Bill and ended up either firmly in the public consciousness or more often ended up on the menu at McNothingburger Deli.
posted by Devonian at 7:55 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Don't think this has come up here yet. From the Washington Post. After failing to seduce Nancy O'Dell, Trump reportedly tried to have her fired.

Gosh, and all I thought I'd have to do to keep my government job was go on a diet and get my hair highlighted. Guess I better buy some tic tacs.
posted by sallybrown at 7:56 AM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

Oh dear god. Face the Nation just asked its little focus group of voters an unsurprisingly idiotic question: "If your car was broken down at the side of the road, would you want Clinton or Trump to stop to help you?" And a conventionally attractive blond white woman replies, totally sincerely, "Donald Trump. I mean, we know he likes women [happy laugh], so I think he'd probably be interested in helping me out." A couple of the other people looked like they were trying not to visibly cringe or vomit.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:57 AM on October 9, 2016 [29 favorites]

We all want Republicans to do the hard self-examination. Let's begin by doing it ourselves.

If Bill Clinton raped women and Hillary Clinton believes he did, then A) he has more moral culpability than she does; but B) she has enabled him in attaining positions of authority.

This is the gut-check I ask you to make: If a Republican woman were running, and we believed her husband had raped women, and she helped him gain positions of power, would we shrug about it?
posted by argybarg at 7:58 AM on October 9, 2016 [34 favorites]

A Trump collapse could give Democrats back the House. Here’s the math.

It seems to me like a Trump collapse at this point could likely cost the Democrats some House seats, as it will completely destroy the reason that some percentage of D voters would go to the polls in the first place.
posted by jferg at 8:00 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Holy shit. The Breitbart retweet about the Broderick rape interview was from Dr. Jekyll Trump's iPhone. Bannon has the motherfucking iPhone.

If this isn't proof that Conway isn't in any sort of control I don't know what is. The lunatics have officially taken over the asylum.
posted by Talez at 8:00 AM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

A pattern of sexual assault, says Kaine.
posted by vbfg at 8:01 AM on October 9, 2016

This is the gut-check I ask you to make: If a Republican woman were running, and we believed her husband had raped women, and she helped him gain positions of power, would we shrug about it?

What gut-check? I would never vote for a Republican, no matter what their gender.
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:01 AM on October 9, 2016 [22 favorites]

NYT Journalist Jonathan Martin (twitter):

NEWS: Trump urges surrogates to unload on Republicans abandoning him, per new talking pts just forwarded to me (1/)

WE DON'T NEED EM. Trump talkers > "Trump won the Primary without the help of the insiders and he’ll win the General without them, too"

posted by sallybrown at 8:01 AM on October 9, 2016

" And a conventionally attractive blond white woman replies, totally sincerely, "Donald Trump. I mean, we know he likes women [happy laugh], so I think he'd probably be interested in helping me out." A couple of the other people looked like they were trying not to visibly cringe or vomit.

We're through the Keyes' Constant here people... From now until election day, expect about one in four to say things like this, and remember, VOTE DAMNIT, and HRC will win by 20.
posted by mikelieman at 8:01 AM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

Woke up this morning remembering how much flack Jimmy Carter got from conservatives and Christians for admitting that he "had lusted in his heart. "

Our memories differ. The pulpit grief I recall him getting was more because he gave an interview to a dirty magazine than what he actually said. On the lust comment, I recall that what is now called the mainstream media mocking him for his being a rube. Regardless, according to this, it had no effect on his polling numbers.

Second time out, had the helicopter had not hit a sandstorm, he probably would have been re-elected. There's a thought experiment for you!
posted by IndigoJones at 8:01 AM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Oh, there was a point. "Despair is a sin" or something...
posted by mikelieman at 8:02 AM on October 9, 2016

Face the Nation just asked its little focus group of voters an unsurprisingly idiotic question:

Disgusting.

We all want Republicans to do the hard self-examination. Let's begin by doing it ourselves.

Sorry, no time for wild not relevant hypotheticals. What if white people were minorities and black people had enslaved white people, and the current president was a white minority after the country had an entire history of only black male presidents, and and and.

No. Trump's comments are terrible, more are coming out, and Hillary is preparing to address them later this evening.
posted by cashman at 8:02 AM on October 9, 2016 [34 favorites]

If a Republican woman were running, and we believed her husband had raped women, and she helped him gain positions of power, would we shrug about it?

No, and I don't shrug about it for Hillary. But even assuming the truth of everything Republicans are saying: I will pick a spouse who enabled a racist over an actual rapist any day of the week. We know for a fact that Trump raped his wife Ivana. That's all I would need to know in this hypothetical scenario.
posted by sallybrown at 8:04 AM on October 9, 2016 [22 favorites]

From this new NYT article Inside Trump Tower, an Increasingly Upset and Alone Donald Trump: "Mr. Christie and Mr. Priebus told Mr. Trump that the situation with other Republicans was becoming dire. Other advisers assured Mr. Trump that attacking Mrs. Clinton over her husband’s behavior with women, and over reports that she had defended his behavior, would help rally Republicans again."

Oh my God! Giuliani is egging him on!
What's his beef with Trump?
posted by sour cream at 8:05 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

If this isn't proof that Conway isn't in any sort of control I don't know what is. The lunatics have officially taken over the asylum.

Conway's last appearance on Bill Mahar's HBO show. They have history working together, and it seemed that Bill was doing his best to make Kellyanne "break character". At that point, I realized that she fell victim to the "They drove a dumptruck full of money to my house" syndrome, and I became somewhat sympathetic. Tempered by "lay down with dogs...." and "Have you ever danced with The Devil by the pale moonlight?"
posted by mikelieman at 8:05 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

I realized that the basket of deplorables may have gotten smaller with all this, but like a fetid pool of water in an old wheelbarrow, forgotten in your back yard, as the water level drops, the concentration of the noxious materials gets higher.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:06 AM on October 9, 2016 [13 favorites]

Cooper, Raddatz set to make first questions of debate about Trump tape
posted by madamjujujive at 8:06 AM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

53 hours and counting since KellyAnne Conway's last tweet. Methinks she gone.
posted by petebest at 8:07 AM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Y'all have lost me with MAGA. ??

I added it to the glossary on the Election Thread Reference.

Good to see you all down here at the bottom of the current thread. I only skipped like 1000 comments over the past week and it's great to be caught up for five minutes.
posted by carsonb at 8:08 AM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

Fanfic hypotheticals that presuppose that a woman must be not only fully aware of her husband's behavior but must actively enable him, because of fucking course she must bear ultimate responsibility, are deeply, profoundly sexist, and if you feel the need to publicly concern troll with those fantasies after you've just gone #notallmen in a discussion about sexism and sexual assault, you are not the good guy you think you are.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:08 AM on October 9, 2016 [112 favorites]

Hillary Clinton believes he did

From every on the record indication, she did/does not believe he raped women. Hell, Ken Starr didn't even believe it enough to pursue it. So a hypothetical that rides on Hillary thinking Bill is a rapist and being fine with it seems unhelpful.
posted by chris24 at 8:09 AM on October 9, 2016 [48 favorites]

Methinks she gone.

She was seen at Trump Tower all day yesterday. She is wisely staying away from Twitter and doing her job.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:09 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Did someone link Lin-Manuel Miranda's opening for SNL yet? Because wow. (I'm another one of those snake people without TVs so had to wait for this morning.)
posted by Sequence at 8:09 AM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

Cooper, Raddatz set to make first questions of debate about Trump tape

A coin toss by the Commission on Presidential Debates determined that Clinton will speak first.

While the debates are hosted by the commission, not the television networks, Raddatz and Cooper have been in debate prep with producers from their respective networks.

The gender dynamics -- a man and a woman moderating together while another man and woman face off in a town hall format -- will be unmissable.

posted by cashman at 8:09 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Chuck Todd has almost redeemed himself with this epic takedown of Giuliani.
posted by Talez at 8:10 AM on October 9, 2016 [24 favorites]

Extremely popular evangelical writer/ speaker Beth Moore: @BethMooreLPM Try to absorb how acceptable the disesteem and objectifying of women has been when some Christian leaders don't think it's that big a deal.

I'm one among many women sexually abused, misused, stared down, heckled, talked naughty to. Like we liked it. We didn't. We're tired of it.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:10 AM on October 9, 2016 [42 favorites]

she fell victim to the "They drove a dumptruck full of money to my house" syndrome,

Then she's a bigger fool than I thought she was. Everyone knows Trump doesn't pay his contractors.
posted by argybarg at 8:11 AM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

My bet for tonight is Trump melts down live on TV, and screams at both Clinton and the moderators, accusing them of rigging the debate.

Note that the uncommitted voters will be sitting on stage with the candidates.

This is going to be one for the ages.
posted by sallybrown at 8:11 AM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

She was seen at Trump Tower all day yesterday. She is wisely staying away from Twitter and doing her job.

Which would presumably have been not letting Rudy on Stephanopoulos' show. Ratfucking is one thing that everyone knows goes with the gig. Pigfucking is reason to walk.
posted by mikelieman at 8:12 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

So lady, we just found out *your* price.

In a thread which is mostly about Trump's (and the Republicans' and America's and Men's) grotesque misogyny, could we not go to misogyny to attack his supporters? There is so much more rope there to use to let them hang themselves; why empower the culture that produced Trump?
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:12 AM on October 9, 2016 [31 favorites]

Then she's a bigger fool than I thought she was. Everyone knows Trump doesn't pay his contractors.

You kidding me? She's worked for politicians her entire life! She gets cash up front!
posted by Talez at 8:13 AM on October 9, 2016 [8 favorites]

Ratfucking is one thing that everyone knows goes with the gig. Pigfucking is reason to walk.

This is why I'll never run for office. Too much bestiality.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 8:13 AM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

Then she's a bigger fool than I thought she was. Everyone knows Trump doesn't pay his contractors.

I mentioned that issue in an earlier comment regarding "What's going through Conway's mind?" with, "Good thing I got paid upfront"...
posted by mikelieman at 8:13 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

There's a male and female moderator and a male and female candidate, but I'm really grateful right now that Anderson Cooper is not straight and therefore has no reason to be enabling Trump with all that "locker room" stuff.
posted by Sequence at 8:14 AM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

A former Miss New Hampshire told BuzzFeed News last spring that Donald Trump strolled through the dressing rooms backstage at the 2000 Miss USA pageant and stared at the naked contestants.
posted by Talez at 8:14 AM on October 9, 2016 [15 favorites]

Did someone link Lin-Manuel Miranda's opening for SNL yet?

On rewatching it for the hundredth time, I realized that the odd standing position of Baldwin/Trump at times was to position the CNN logo in the lower right as his erection while hot-mic'ing it. So brutal.
posted by fatbird at 8:14 AM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

If the disaffected R's show up and simply don't pull the lever for Trump it's bad enough, but participation in prez year elections tends to be higher because of the President and as I said far, far upthread, if those people stay home then the Republican downballot ticket will be in flames. They will almost certainly lose the Senate.


I wish I had your confidence about the Senate, Bringer Tom. Even if Clinton absolutely slaughters Trump, I fear that the hardcore Rs will still turn out to defend their Senate majority. They absolutely don't want to allow Clinton any room to accomplish anything worthwhile.
posted by Surely This at 8:15 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

OK, so I'm grateful that Cooper is gay because I appreciate non-straight representation in media, but I would leave my straight male partner if he thought it was okay to enable "lock room" stuff.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:15 AM on October 9, 2016 [12 favorites]

SNL: A Day Off with Kellyanne Conway.
posted by Dr. Zira at 8:15 AM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

Any discussion of whether Bill Clinton raped Juanita Broaddrick would have to include our society's shifting definition of what constitutes rape. At the time it happened and even into the 90s, one could argue that it wasn't, by cultural if not legal standards. But today that argument cannot and would not hold.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 8:15 AM on October 9, 2016

Wordshore: My innards…have been making vigorous attempts to defenestrate all traces of this product

You're not really pooping out the window, are you? Are there no sanitation ordinances over there? And what would Binoculars Guy think?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:15 AM on October 9, 2016 [15 favorites]

I'm not saying all straight men are okay with it, but enough straight men in longtime media careers have proven they're okay with it that it would have worried me.
posted by Sequence at 8:17 AM on October 9, 2016

This is why I'll never run for office. Too much bestiality.

Scary. I've seen presumably qualified candidates refuse to run because they dropped a little acid.

There's an insight in there somewhere, but I don't know if...

OH....

this
posted by mikelieman at 8:17 AM on October 9, 2016

Mod note: A few comments deleted; let's not get into some weird focus on the personal virtue of the woman being interviewed about the broken-down-car scenario.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:19 AM on October 9, 2016 [8 favorites]

Yeah but the overarching organization, if it can be called that, to Trump's campaign has been twitter. And two solid days of tweet silence from that campaign's manager plus a cancelled media appearance?

Mmmmm . . . I think Owen Ellickson's twitter characterization of her is closer to the truth than not. Unless she fires it up in the next six hours she's gone.
posted by petebest at 8:19 AM on October 9, 2016

At the time it happened and even into the 90s, one could argue that it wasn't, by cultural if not legal standards.

Can we PLEASE not do this. There are women on here who THIS HAPPENED TO.
posted by sallybrown at 8:20 AM on October 9, 2016 [62 favorites]

I'm not the one arguing that it isn't rape. And it pisses me off that so many are.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 8:21 AM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

For the first time in 100 years, the Columbus Dispatch endorses a Democrat.

Editorial: For president | Trump unfit, Clinton is qualified
posted by chris24 at 8:21 AM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

If a Republican woman were running, and we believed her husband had raped women, and she helped him gain positions of power, would we shrug about it?

I am a man who believes women when they say they have been assaulted or harassed. I have volunteered numerous hours over the years to anti-assault and harassment efforts. I am voting for the party that will advance the strongest pro-feminist agenda. That vote is really clear to me.
posted by Slothrop at 8:22 AM on October 9, 2016 [33 favorites]

Chuck Todd has almost redeemed himself with this epic takedown of Giuliani.

Watching a serial adulterer's brain malfunction while trying to exculpate another serial adulterer is a level of political schadenfreude that we rarely see before noon. If that's how the rest of the day is going to be, I might need to start drinking earlier than anticipated.

I guess it's 9pm somewhere.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:22 AM on October 9, 2016 [23 favorites]

Josh Marshall: The presidential race's impact on Congress could be dramatically greater than we've imagined
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:24 AM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

It's 10:25 pm on Christmas Island.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:24 AM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Giuliani seemed oddly contemplative and calm (while agreeing that what Trump said was sexual assault), compared to his usual behavior lately. Very weird.
posted by sallybrown at 8:25 AM on October 9, 2016

Giuliani seemed oddly contemplative and calm (while agreeing that what Trump said was sexual assault), compared to his usual behavior lately. Very weird.

The first glint of acceptance.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:26 AM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Giuliani seemed oddly contemplative and calm (while agreeing that what Trump said was sexual assault), compared to his usual behavior lately. Very weird.

I think we're somewhere between depression and acceptance on the stages of grief.
posted by chris24 at 8:27 AM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

shoutout to all my sisters who are fighting the good fight by describing their incidences of sexual assault. I have a chan boy in my life, and I can see "Grab them by the etc" morphing echoically into some stupid meme that I need to not hear in order to stay in my happy place.

So that means that once again wrestling with the question of sharing with the chan boy my story of sexual assault, and it is so fucking exhausting. I even have a block on the words "I was raped" in that formulation, while completely factually accurate, is such a fucking hard and intimate thing to talk about.

I don't want to do that work, but I also fear turning into some sort of fiery demon if the chan boy utters a pussy-grabbing meme in my presence for humorous effect, so I better get in fucking formation and deal with this bullshit before the lad gets a face-full of righteous scorn that he probably wouldn't process well
posted by angrycat at 8:27 AM on October 9, 2016 [41 favorites]

like a fetid pool of water in an old wheelbarrow, forgotten in your back yard, as the water level drops, the concentration of the noxious materials gets higher.

This is suspiciously specific

Are you spreading Zika
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:28 AM on October 9, 2016 [15 favorites]

Is it 1998 All Over Again?

Remember the disconnect in 1998 between the political elite's reaction and the general public's reaction to the Monica Lewinsky scandal? The insiders said Clinton would have to step down, but the public continued to give him high job approval numbers, if not high personal approval numbers. We may be in a similar place with Trump -- this story may not change many minds.

Or maybe you're all right and I'm wrong -- maybe the disgust at all this is going to take a few days to show up in the polls. We'll see. For now we know it isn't showing up.

posted by tonycpsu at 8:29 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Cuckocalypse Now.
posted by acb at 8:29 AM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Tweet by ‏@AustenGilliland:

Increasingly convinced that we're living the prelude to a special episode of Doctor Who.
posted by Wordshore at 8:30 AM on October 9, 2016 [15 favorites]

I am not comfortable telling Juanita Broaddrick how to respond to her rape. But statements like the one Rainbo Vagrant quoted last night fill me with despair

Accuser Juanita Broaddrick, whose claim of a 1978 sexual assault has been denied by the Clintons, thinks Hillary Clinton was too passive. “I always felt if she’d been a stronger person . . . she could have done something about his behavior,” she said.

This is the same justification behind Trump and his followers blaming Hillary for her husband's behavior while absolving Trump of his own. Because of course it's the woman's job to control the men who are, after all, prone to being men. Blaming women for rape, either their own or one that their husbands committed, is such a strong part of rape culture that I feel sick thinking about the wider impact her statement might have. But I'm primarily angry at the men who are using this woman's trauma to further their own attempts to downplay sexual violence.

I'm also pretty disgusted with Bill, but as we've established plenty of times, he's not running for president.
posted by bibliowench at 8:30 AM on October 9, 2016 [39 favorites]

YT video of Chuck Todd & The Rude
posted by petebest at 8:31 AM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

I think the Republican party elite is waking up to the idea that they made a monumental mistake letting the inmates take over the asylum.

Trump still gets strong support at all of the scary rallies and GOP candidates that are repudiating Trump apparently are getting booed.

They really don't have a way forward. Trump is radioactive so supporting him is no go and actively rebuking him is going to cause a riot among the base. Either way they are seeing what might've been a moderate Presidential loss and possible Senate loss turn into a massive rout.

They simply don't know how to move forward at this point. Neither alternative is particularly appealing for maintaining power and these are guys that pride themselves on being in control but now they are stuck on Mr Trump's Wild Ride.
posted by vuron at 8:31 AM on October 9, 2016 [8 favorites]

Cmon Donny. Just say the words.
"I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place."
All I want is this one thing and I think I've earned it.
Besides, what have you got to lose?
posted by Senor Cardgage at 8:32 AM on October 9, 2016 [8 favorites]

I don't want to do that work

And you shouldn't have to. I'm sorry for all of it. I don't know your situation, but I'm a fan of describing the work I have to do when explaining terrible things as part of the terrible thing, if only as a way of bringing home that no, this isn't abstract, and yes, you are part of it. You are hurting people. You.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:33 AM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

At long last, Trump has been un-normalized (Ezra Klein for Vox)
posted by box at 8:33 AM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

National treasure Charles P. Pierce: America Has Been Waiting for Donald Trump
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:33 AM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

Trump is #1 and #2 results on Google Images for "sexual predator"
posted by Talez at 8:34 AM on October 9, 2016 [18 favorites]

So apparently there's a video of Trump and Giuliani sort of re-enacting a tic-tac-style move? (warning: weird) Has this been linked here already? WTF?
posted by carsonb at 8:35 AM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Is it 1998 All Over Again?

This article draws the wrong conclusion from every data point it cites. Of course there hasn't been a huge shift in the polls within 24 hours because that's too soon for polls to show the impact. 12% of Republican voters thinking Trump should end his campaign is a pretty big deal, even though it is not a majority. In a normal campaign, people are probably never even asked that question because it would be obvious that no one would say yes.
posted by snofoam at 8:36 AM on October 9, 2016 [8 favorites]

YT video of Chuck Todd & The Rude

Well, The Rude just told us Donnie's plans tonight.
posted by mikelieman at 8:40 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

12% of Republican voters thinking Trump should end his campaign is a pretty big deal,

Exactly. 12% not bothering to vote and Ds take the House, not just the Senate and Presidency.
posted by chris24 at 8:40 AM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

The Charles Pierce article makes me wish Hunter Thompson had hung around for this. The pigs have come out of the tunnel, indeed.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 8:41 AM on October 9, 2016 [14 favorites]

Dear GOP, You built that.
posted by drezdn at 8:41 AM on October 9, 2016 [12 favorites]

man if i knew this tape existed two months ago i could have donated less to the clinton campaign and gotten some sweet lego
posted by murphy slaw at 8:42 AM on October 9, 2016 [21 favorites]

A thousand years ago (July 26, 2015), Keith Ellison, on ABC's This Week:

Ellison: . . . [Trump] has got some momentum, and we'd better be ready for the fact that he might be leading the Republican ticket.
[panel erupts in laughter]
George Stephanopoulos: I know you don't believe that, but I want to go on to [unintelligible].

posted by Spathe Cadet at 8:42 AM on October 9, 2016 [14 favorites]

The Rude - Shitstorm
posted by J.K. Seazer at 8:42 AM on October 9, 2016 [14 favorites]

Is it 1998 All Over Again?

The polls the article is referring to were done barely 24 hours after this happened if. This isn't enough time to capture the full extent of the damage because many people will still be in the just found out processing stage. Plus it won't capture wavering people who maybe after hearing more of the outfall will finally say no.

If polls taken after a couple of days still show the same lack of change then yeah, let's talk 1998. Right now too soon to go there.
posted by Jalliah at 8:42 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

> "If this isn't proof that Conway isn't in any sort of control I don't know what is. The lunatics have officially taken over the asylum."

It doesn't matter who's got the phone in hand now. They're all going to say the same thing. They've only got one tactic left.

There were only two routes they could go at this point -- try to limit damage for the rest of the Republican party, or try a hail mary pass to get Trump elected no matter what. It's been obvious from what they've been saying for the past couple of days (and obvious to anyone who's been following the campaign that they'd choose it) that they're going with option B. And for option B, there is literally only one possible route. SCORCHED. EARTH.

What else is he going to run on at this point? The economy? Foreign policy? CHARACTER? His only, only chance is to try to make Hillary Clinton seem so repulsive, so corrupt and evil and vile, drive voters away from her so much, that when the votes are counted, he gets 40%, she gets 39%, and the rest vote for Johnson or just stay home.

Will it work? I doubt it. But they might manage to burn down a hell of a lot before they're done.
posted by kyrademon at 8:42 AM on October 9, 2016 [18 favorites]

If it was anyone other than Trump, he could still undo some of the damage that's tearing up the GOP - he could essay genuine contrition tonight and turn, if not electable, then at least someone who didn't need to be denounced by party leadership. That would help, a bit.

But it's Trump. He'll be far happier with a Downfall-style 'I was betrayed by my own army, even though I fought for what I believed in until the end' narrative to explain his own failure, and if that leaves the GOP looking like Berlin in the aftermath of the final assault then so much the better.

I'm not yet ready to see Obama's goading of Trump at the press corps dinner as an 11-dimensional accelerationist chess move against the Republicans, but in any decent universe it would at least be part of the plot line.
posted by Devonian at 8:42 AM on October 9, 2016 [11 favorites]

RUDE: It's wrong to say those things
CHUCK TODD: It's not just saying it, Mr. Mayor, he's doing it! He's bragging about making un! Wanted! Sexual! Advances! You're saying that the words are wrong. Howbout the actions?!
RUDE: . . . Welp! . . The actions would be even worse, if they were actions. Talk and actions are two different things.
CHUCK: waitaminit, *reading glasses on* New York Times, Temple Taggart, 21-year-old beauty contestant, said (screen shows article) Mr. Trump kissed her on the lips without invitation . . .

And then Rudy blames the victim, explodes in a cloud of bats, aaaaannd - scene!

Attaboy Chuck. Good job.

Get me my bookie . . . Yeah Left? Look - all of it on Clinton. Yeah, all. . . . Don't care what he's paying. You may as well pay out now . .
posted by petebest at 8:43 AM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

If she has a chance to, I really hope that Hillary asks Donald Trump if he recommends that Barron grab women's genitals.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:44 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Tina Fey's criticism that Ms. Clinton's not avenging herself sufficiently against Ms. Flowers is a touche'. Setting loose a bunch of mice in her own rival's attic needed a FACT CHECK. That interviewer was a softball pitcher!

Is that Philadelphia suburb a real place or make-believe? Google maps gives me a lat-lon but there is no map label for Clifton Heights.
posted by bukvich at 8:45 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Lots of swipes at evangelicals here. Often deserved. I have, err, relevant experience, having grown up in that culture and still currently floating around the fringes of it. I should say that in spiritual terms I am still an evangelical, since I agree with everything in the National Association of Evangelicals' statement of faith. (I might put an asterisk next to the first point though, that the Bible is the "only infallible Word of God" - I imagine I'd disagree with most evangelicals about what that actually means. Short version: you don't get to switch your brain off or fail to employ healthy hermeneutics. Who said what to whom under what circumstances.)

Anyhoo. In political terms, I find the recent of behaviour of evangelicals, broadly acting as a voting bloc, to be fairly disgusting. So how do people sharing core spiritual beliefs end up in wildly divergent political positions? I should note that I find the behaviour of Republicans over the last decade to be both repugnant and grossly irresponsible. I find myself in agreement with the position taken by some evangelicals recently, A Declaration by American Evangelicals Concerning Donald Trump. So let's call that grouping, in which I include myself, Evangelical Position B (since it seems to get less attention than the version I consider damaging). Characteristics of this position, going a little beyond what's in that link, are a concern for social justice, of the actual, non-SJW kind, and a lack of obsession with the Republican party in the US, or with extreme conservative politics in other countries.

Evangelical Position A is what you get from groups like Focus on the Family. Hard-line anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, anti-LBTQ+ rights. And so on. Must vote Republican (or insert your country's conservative party of choice).

Taking Evangelical Position A to be broadly representative of everything I think is wrong with the behaviour of evangelical voters... what has gone wrong? Non-Christians (and many insightful commentators in this very thread) are displaying more Biblical acuity than the evangelicals. My brothers and sisters, such a thing should not be so.

The first thing that went wrong with evangelical culture is just plain ignorance. If you picked a sample of evangelicals and asked how many think the Earth is 6000 years old, you'd get... an alarmingly high number saying yes. But more worrying, and more to the point, if you asked why they believe that, they'll tell you "because the Bible says so." Yeah, it doesn't. It maybe weakly implies that, and there's concerns about using a shallow reading of a profound text. My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. There's another element to this, which is the expectation of pat answers in a tremendously complex world. Turning that expectation into a heuristic to rely on doesn't get you very far.

The next thing gone wrong is what that fantastic pastor at the DNC described as talking a lot about what God says little about, and talking merely a little about what God says a lot about. Do you think when God speaks in the Old Testament about how to treat the "stranger in your land," there's maybe some relevance for the immigration debate, and that Trump's position might be unacceptable to God? Yet nobody seems to consider this, because they've swallowed three decades of Republican attacks on the Clintons and seem set on regurgitating them wholesale, with little critical thought. Or they're hand-wringing about abortion, when that receives comparatively little attention in the Scriptures relative to, you know, how Christians are meant to fucking behave in society.

Next thing gone wrong is that lack of tolerance for critical thought. I mean that in the philosophical sense: taste for playing with counterfactuals, frequency of considering the foundations and correctness of your own position. Considering other perspectives. Considering that you might be wrong. Critiquing the fruit, as in consequences, of your beliefs and behaviour. Yet instead there's a tendency for semantic stop-signs and a culture that can't handle doubt. I posted maybe a year ago on Facebook that the story of King David perhaps implies the whole "one man for one woman for life" position on marriage isn't as rock-solid as the evangelical cultural narrative holds, and hoo boy! the hornet's nest I stirred up. What was concerning was that I dared to express an opinion that deviated from orthodoxy, and that act elicits a response from other evangelicals that would make you think I've just scandalised them. So you guys know what Paul says about the relative importance of love and holding a correct opinion? Right? Right?

The last thing, to be charitable, is that evangelicals have lost sight of their calling with respect to the rest of society:

“You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

“You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden.

...

In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. (Matt 5:13-16)

To evangelicals of position A, especially in the US: you're called to be the salt of the earth, to preserve and enhance, but you twits have almost elected a dictator. You're called to good deeds, but instead of pointing to the Father, people just think of failure. You're called to be light, but who would want to be like you? NO ONE. Your job is to represent God to everyone else, and you need to recover that.

I needed to get that off my chest.
posted by iffthen at 8:46 AM on October 9, 2016 [132 favorites]

12% of Republican voters thinking Trump should end his campaign is a pretty big deal, even though it is not a majority.

It's a frighteningly low number to me considering at least some of that 12% was already not going to vote for him, meaning this poll (and yes, it's one of those instant reaction polls, which the author acknowledges) is showing very little movement away from Trump based on recent events.

It's just one data point, but I do think the example of Bill Clinton was worth thinking about -- most Americans basically acknowledged his failings as a human being while believing that he was doing a good job as President. Why wouldn't a significant number of Trump supporters perform the same calculation?
posted by tonycpsu at 8:48 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

I think the Republican party elite is waking up to the idea that they made a monumental mistake letting the inmates take over the asylum.

I think the Trumpistas are Rorscharch.

There was an article linked on the blue over a year ago already talking about this. I'll repeat what I said at the time --- it's an extremely well reported piece, with dozens of high-level sources confessing that the GOP's absorption into the right wing mediasphere is destroying the party. None of those sources were willing to be named on the record. They know, they just don't know how to fix it. The base has gone mad and they can't get elected without the base.
posted by Diablevert at 8:48 AM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

New NBC polls this morning (from before tape).

Clinton up 12 in Pennsylvania and up 3 in Florida.

Also, Rubio only up 2 in his senate race. And McGinty up 4 in PA.
posted by chris24 at 8:48 AM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

Get me my bookie . . . Yeah Left? Look - all of it on Clinton. Yeah, all. . . . Don't care what he's paying. You may as well pay out now . .

The best odds on Clinton right now are 2/7.
posted by Talez at 8:49 AM on October 9, 2016

I'm a rape survivor and I will not be told I need to check my brain at the door so I can be considered a "good survivor."
posted by asteria at 8:49 AM on October 9, 2016 [33 favorites]

Hooray, I've caught up! And I too have run out of favorites for the first time in my Metafilter history. Please know that I'd favorite almost every comment in this thread if I could, and I am so happy that you are all here making this more tolerable.

I had to unfollow a good friend on Facebook this morning; he's a Clinton supporter but has several friends who are Trump supporters. Due to Facebook's weird insistence that what I really want to see is not my friend's posts but the public posts he comments on, I keep seeing him making these futile attempts to politely engage in debate with people who post things like "Why is what Trump said such a big deal, I know plenty of women who use way worse language than that!"

So thank you, everyone, for this thread. I have a bottle of pumpkin cider (alcoholic) from Trader Joe's and I think I might have to watch the debate tonight. Knowing you're here too will make it that much better.
posted by skycrashesdown at 8:50 AM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

Kellyanne Conway’s History Of Pushing A Right-Wing Media, Anti-Choice Lie About Abortion. To limit abortion access, Trump's campaign manager has long promoted the dangerous lie that democrats support "Sex-Selective" abortion

Conway alleged that “little baby girls [are] being killed just because they’re girls in this country,” but her point was quickly fact-checked by CNN host Anderson Cooper, who replied, “Statistically, there’s not really much evidence that that is actually occurring in the United States.” Cooper followed up after a break, quoting a Guttmacher Institute report that debunked Conway’s claim. (transcript follows)

Relevant because there's this disturbing thing that keeps resurfacing where Conway is just a nice person who unwittingly got roped into being Trump's campaign manager when in reality she's a dangerous person who coolly lies. Also another reminder that Cooper likes to fact-check. I really hope he does it tonight. Lots more at the link.
posted by cashman at 8:50 AM on October 9, 2016 [52 favorites]

It's a frighteningly low number to me considering at least some of that 12% was already not going to vote for him, meaning this poll (and yes, it's one of those instant reaction polls, which the author acknowledges) is showing very little movement away from Trump based on recent events.

In addition to being to early, Republicans are already the 30% or so of people most likely to vote for him. The same poll found that 35% of independents wanted him to drop out.
posted by snofoam at 8:53 AM on October 9, 2016

I needed to get that off my chest.

Thank you for holding the talking-stick so long and speaking so goodly.
posted by mikelieman at 8:53 AM on October 9, 2016 [13 favorites]

His only, only chance is to try to make Hillary Clinton seem so repulsive, so corrupt and evil and vile

If they had good dirt, they'd have long since used it. They've already flung all the shit they have. They can ratchet up the fury with which they say the things they're saying, but that doesn't make them more convincing, just more transparently desperate.
posted by jackbishop at 8:54 AM on October 9, 2016 [11 favorites]

Between when I left for my little vacation on Thursday and this morning, someone in my neighborhood put up a Trump yard sign. Like... now is the time you want to declare your allegiance? Right now? Doing that is like a bright blinking neon sign alerting me to not let my child play too close to your house.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:56 AM on October 9, 2016 [29 favorites]

iffthen, do you think there's potential of a rift between Evangelical men and woman on this issue, exacerbated by the tape, something like what Beth Moore is raising (twitter)?
posted by sallybrown at 8:56 AM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

You guys, I have lost my opportunity to to entertain you with a photo of The Most Ridiculous Trump Sign Ever. A half-mile from me, on a road I drive at least twice a day, is a big ugly gated McMansion; a few weeks ago the owner of this property put a big crane with a cherry picker in his front yard, lashed an enormous Trump sign to the bucket, and hoisted that sucker twenty feet in the air and cantilevered out over the (fairly busy) street, where it irritated the crap out of me on a daily basis (although I give points for clever--there's no way anyone could rip it down).

Yesterday morning I saw it once again while driving out to do errands, and thought for the hundredth time that I should get a a photo of it to link here, but it's a tricky stretch of road to pull over on, and I ended up putting it off once again.

And then, when I returned from my errands yesterday afternoon, I turned the corner, reached up to flip down my visor, as had become my habit to block my view of the goddamned sign, and realized -- it was GONE. The cherry picker had been lowered, the bucket was resting on the ground, and the sign was nowhere to be seen.

Somehow this heartens me even more than the higher-profile defections of more well-known Republicans. Such a fall, such repentence--from the blatant arrogance of that giant sign-in-the-sky, to its humble lowering and removal. My neighborhood (which, hilariously, is otherwise deep deep blue) is restored to sanity.
posted by Kat Allison at 8:57 AM on October 9, 2016 [109 favorites]

Beth Moore is hugely influential to Christian women. If she's turned, it's over.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:57 AM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

I know this is problematic, but I've started thinking of far right wing...ideas? Culture? As a virus, like a zombie virus that slowly turns you monstrous.

Kellyanne Conway is a very high functioning zombie, but she is a zombie. She's spreading the virus. And she wants your brains.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:58 AM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

I have the sense that some people would vote for Satan himself if he promised to appoint Supreme Court justices who'd overturn Roe v Wade.
posted by Slothrup at 8:58 AM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

I have the sense that some people would vote for Satan himself if he promised to appoint Supreme Court justices who'd overturn Roe v Wade.

Wasn't that covered in explicit detail in Luke 4:5-9?
posted by Talez at 9:01 AM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

@ThePlumLineGS:
Since Trump now says he'll hit Hillary for "attacking" Bill's women, a reminder: Trump called them ugly losers: (WaPo link)
posted by chris24 at 9:02 AM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

I do think the example of Bill Clinton was worth thinking about -- most Americans basically acknowledged his failings as a human being while believing that he was doing a good job as President. Why wouldn't a significant number of Trump supporters perform the same calculation?

I think there are three really good reasons for this.

1. When Bill Clinton was campaigning for president, most of the talk of sexual impropriety was rumor, and what evidence there was pertained to consensual relationships, not sexual harassment or rape. If Juanita Broadrick or Paula Jones had come forward during the '92 campaign, there's almost no way Clinton would have been elected. The morally questionable stuff didn't come to light till he was already in office.

2. We never had smoking gun recorded proof of Bill's attitude towards women. Clinton has always had the public persona of a charmer or a serial cheater. Not really as a creeper, or even as particularly misogynist. At this point, after the smoke has cleared, we have a few sexual assault accusations. It is currently the done thing to listen to women who make accusations like that, so we should believe that Bill Clinton truly harassed and assaulted women. However, you better believe if audiotape had ever surfaced -- or even if it were to surface now -- of Bill Clinton openly describing sexually assaulting multiple women in the kind of crass and flippant manner that Trump did, it would have been a game changer in our perception of him.

2. This is obviously no excuse for Bill's behavior as President, but sexual harassment was seen differently at the time. I'm pretty sure that if, in 2016, Obama were accused of sexual harassment or assault, it would all play out differently from how it did in the 90s, just because people have way less tolerance for this stuff now than they once did.
posted by Sara C. at 9:03 AM on October 9, 2016 [29 favorites]

I'm very much hoping Raddatz and/or Cooper formally introduces Trump tonight as "The Man from Grope." ['90s Weekly Standard advisory.]

What goes around comes around.
posted by Sonny Jim at 9:05 AM on October 9, 2016

Katy Tur on MSNBC saying that she is told that Reince is telling Republicans to trust their own judgment, and do whatever they want to in terms of taking back endorsements.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:05 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Man, did Ted Cruz fuck this up.
posted by asteria at 9:07 AM on October 9, 2016 [60 favorites]

Reince is telling Republicans to trust their own judgment

So... Would you say he wants them to... vote their conscience?
posted by tonycpsu at 9:07 AM on October 9, 2016 [16 favorites]

And new CBS polls, also pre-tape.

OHIO
Clinton 46%
Trump 42%

PENNSYLVANIA
Clinton 48%
Trump 40%

The tape isn't why he's going to lose - he was already getting crushed - it's just giving Republicans an excuse to bail on a loser.
posted by chris24 at 9:07 AM on October 9, 2016 [31 favorites]

Yeah, if the race were closer, a vast majority of the party would still be with him.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:08 AM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

Watching Giulani in that Chuck Todd interview, all I can think of is that Friends episode where they're moving the couch and Ross is frantically screaming "PIVOT!!!!" while the couch gets more and more firmly wedged in the staircase.
posted by KathrynT at 9:09 AM on October 9, 2016 [41 favorites]

Regarding evangelicals and their fascination with Republicans. I see it as being a manifestation of a variety of factors at work notably the following:

Scriptural Infalliability- King James version is the Literal word of god, yadda yadda, despite being shown numerous points where the KJV differs significantly that early greek or aramaic versions in content and intent.

Reliance on Authority figures for interpreting the Bible- this is where evangelical pastors have gained so much authority because they largely define how the laity interact with the Bible particularly the more challenging aspects of faith. This is also where a lot of weird stuff like 6000 year old earth and some of the dominionist stuff comes from.

Celebration of ignorance - there are still some evangelicals that believe that the Bible is the only book you need to know and any knowledge that challenges the previous two points is typically condemned.

There are also issues related to evangelicals abandoning their stance of being removed from the world during the 20th century and their development of weird theological constructs like the Prosperity Gospels but for the most part the current weirdness in which the bulk of the evangelical community has signed on lock stock and barrel to the Republican party despite the inconsistencies between the message of Jesus and the message of the modern Republican party.
posted by vuron at 9:09 AM on October 9, 2016 [8 favorites]

Did they prep Giuliani AT ALL? He's openly admitting that what Donald described is sexual assault, and "if" it happened to anyone, it would be terrible. All he has as a defense is time passing. All of these idiots need to be asked "And what has changed to make Trump change his behavior/view between the age of 59 and now?"

Giuliani tries to make the case that Trump was just exaggerating, presumably bragging. The reporter should have asked Giuliani if he thinks sexual assault us something to be proud of or brag about, because if he's right, Trump obviously does.trumo was exaggerating really doesn't make this any better and the reporter should have pointed that out.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:09 AM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

So the sole Trump supporter on my Facebook feed posted a charming meme this AM suggesting women are hypocrites for being upset about Trump's words, yet making 50 Shades of Grey a best-seller. Wow, just wow. Reading the comments (numerous people trying to explain the concept of "consent") is painful, he just doesn't get it.

I don't know where I'm going with this, just that I find it incredible that other guys out there cannot seriously tell the difference between consensual sex and rape. I mean I don't even know how to respond to that kind of mindset. BTW sorry for any typos, this thread is really bogging down my poor little tablet.
posted by photo guy at 9:10 AM on October 9, 2016 [11 favorites]

Saying that women who like 50SoG must be ok with assault is like saying that people who like Die Hard must be ok with terrorism.
posted by KathrynT at 9:12 AM on October 9, 2016 [134 favorites]

And what has changed to make Trump change his behavior/view between the age of 59 and now?

Apparently "traveling the country" and hearing the stories of suffering Americans. Now he realizes the great responsibility he has.

It's beyond ludicrous, but Rudy has to say something, right?
posted by argybarg at 9:12 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

The tape isn't why he's going to get crushed, it's just giving Republicans an excuse to bail on a loser.
posted by chris24 at 9:07 AM on October 9 [1 favorite +] [!]


Yeah, if the race were closer, a vast majority of the party would still be with him.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:08 AM on October 9 [+] [!]

To the extent that this is true, and I think to a significant degree it is, I think points back to the alpha male/authority worship mentality that I've seen among actual conservatives.
posted by 2N2222 at 9:15 AM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

I needed to get that off my chest.

I am glad you did. Part of what I love about MetaFilter is reading thoughtful things like yours from positions I have no experience with and too many preconceived notions about.

And yes, my few GOP Facebook friends were parroting the "Fifty Shades of Grey" thing yesterday and today too....it made me sad that I had to explain the difference between "consent in a fictional work" and what Trump said/did.
posted by biscotti at 9:15 AM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Trump's tape (sexual assault) : 50 Shades of Gray (consensual sex) :: Taken : road trip movie
posted by sallybrown at 9:16 AM on October 9, 2016 [14 favorites]

@jk_rowling: The men rushing to tell us all that they talk about women exactly the way @realDonaldTrump did in his tape seem to think they're helping.

Rowling has spent all day retweeting "I've been in a lot of locker rooms, never heard this kind of talk" tweets from her followers.
posted by effbot at 9:16 AM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

As a preview of how horrible this could get, Trump tweeted a link to a new Breitbart interview out today with Juanita Broaddrick in which she graphicly decribes her alleged rape by Bill Clinton.

I believe Juanita Broaddrick. I think Bill Clinton probably did rape her. I think he's been rapey as fuck with other women and I believe that he did it to her.

The horrible thing about Trump making commentary about Juanita Broaddrick's rape is not bringing it up, it's the fact that he, a probable rapist himself, is using the existence of another probable rapist to try to bring down a woman who is not a rapist.
posted by corb at 9:17 AM on October 9, 2016 [101 favorites]

The Columbus Dispatch just endorsed Clinton. A conservative editorial board that hasn't endorsed a Democrat since 1916.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 9:18 AM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

The horrible thing about Trump making commentary about Juanita Broaddrick's rape is not bringing it up, it's the fact that he, a probable rapist himself, is using the existence of another probable rapist to try to bring down a woman who is not a rapist.


Or, as Ijeoma Oluo said, "don't be mad that we stopped electing rapists before we elected you."
posted by KathrynT at 9:20 AM on October 9, 2016 [47 favorites]

Beth Moore is hugely influential to Christian women. If she's turned, it's over.

I dunno if it's that easy. I read the replies to the tweet that was posted and it isn't, we're not voting for him. There were a number of, good now it's in the open, now maybe he'll change, get help, forgiveness stuff plus one, 'at least now he'll be surround by good people who will help unlike Hillary who just enables this stuff"
posted by Jalliah at 9:20 AM on October 9, 2016

Good people like Rudy Guiliani, Chris Christie and Roger Ailes.

Excuse me I think I just dislocated an eyeball.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:25 AM on October 9, 2016 [13 favorites]

I think the combination of this subject and this demographic do not a safe space make for women who are rethinking their vote. I really do not expect to see many public declarations, even in Twitter replies.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:26 AM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

A really good tweetstorm by Dem pollster Nick Gourevitch on the tape and polling starts with:

1: A few thoughts on polling as someone, somewhere is considering writing a silly "hot take" that the video clip didn't damage Trump...

2: Trump's issue has always been his vote ceiling and not his vote floor. Events that cap his vote ceiling are very damaging, if not fatal.
posted by chris24 at 9:27 AM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

J K Rowling is an international treasure.
posted by peacheater at 9:30 AM on October 9, 2016 [17 favorites]

Trump's tape (sexual assault) : 50 Shades of Gray (consensual sex) :: Taken : road trip movie

The GRE taker in me can't help but point out that the analogy should be: 50 shades : Trump tape :: Road trip movie : Taken
posted by dis_integration at 9:32 AM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

I can't see anywhere where Beth Moore has gone against the "he's not good, but I'll still take the deal" evangelical line on Trump. She's not touching that with a nine foot crozier.

But who knows where a few more days of prayer on her part and belligerent Trumpery on his gets her. Evangelicals once abjured politics altogether, and it wasn't so very long ago.
posted by Devonian at 9:32 AM on October 9, 2016

Cooper, Raddatz set to make first questions of debate about Trump tape

What are the odds Trump will make some kind of off-the-cuff-but-not-really insinuating reference to Gloria Vanderbilt? I'm thinking Anderson is not the one to try that with.
posted by fuse theorem at 9:34 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Hillary Clinton Already Knows The Bad Thing You Said
"It’s no accident that Hillary Clinton throws obscure facts, names, and comments at opponents during debates. She loves opposition research. She delights in it, personally reading every detail and methodically storing it away — part of what makes Clinton, whether in debates, or day to day on the campaign trail, “obsessive” when it comes to being prepared."
posted by chris24 at 9:34 AM on October 9, 2016 [25 favorites]

I am pleasantly surprised to see that al.com, the website of the major newspapers in my home state of Alabama, has endorsed Hillary Clinton.
posted by ocherdraco at 9:37 AM on October 9, 2016 [21 favorites]

Today's @latimes front page -- GOP ON THE BRINK

Not the headline you want 30 days out.
posted by chris24 at 9:37 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Kellyanne is back.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:38 AM on October 9, 2016

I basically said this in a comment the day after the first debate between Clinton and Trump where Clinton had demonstrated that she could be calm and authoritative and presidential....Trump's persona/campaign/self-worth is based on him being a "winner" and I think a lot of his support was from people who feel like they have lost status who want to regain what they perceive to be their rightful place in American society. The debate was the first crack in Trump's facade. Then combine that with the media being ready to turn on him (they'd built him up and now it was time in the narrative for him to be brought down). Everything Trump says in the video is terrible but I think it was more that people were ready for an excuse to stop supporting him. If it hadn't been that video, it would have been something else. I'm so glad it's finally happening.
posted by betsybetsy at 9:39 AM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

God I hope the NYT headline on November 9 is just the word LOSER in billion-point type with Trump's face under it. The worst word he can think of.
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:41 AM on October 9, 2016 [55 favorites]

I hope the NYT headline on November 9 is just the word LOSER

I hope it's MADAM PRESIDENT. First woman president acknowledged. Fuck Trump, he's the ash heap of history at that point.
posted by chris24 at 9:43 AM on October 9, 2016 [114 favorites]

Mod note: One deleted. Don't troll in here or you'll get time off.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:46 AM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

Trump has sent out talking points to his surrogates telling them to attack establishment Republicans for unendorsing him.

NEWS: Trump urges surrogates to unload on Republicans abandoning him, per new talking pts just forwarded to me (1/)

Trump talking pts urge total war on Rs: "They are more concerned with their political future than they are about the future of the country"

WE DON'T NEED EM.

Trump talkers > "Trump won the Primary without the help of the insiders and he’ll win the General without them, too"

popcorn.gif
posted by chris24 at 9:51 AM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

I hope it's MADAM PRESIDENT. First woman president acknowledged. Fuck Trump, he's the ash heap of history at that point.

Ok fair. MADAM PRESIDENT above the fold, LOSER under the fold
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:51 AM on October 9, 2016 [32 favorites]

God I hope the NYT headline on November 9 is just the word LOSER in billion-point type

Not likely. I bet you a dollar it'll be the Daily News', however.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:54 AM on October 9, 2016 [11 favorites]

I hope it's MADAM PRESIDENT. First woman president acknowledged. Fuck Trump, he's the ash heap of history at that point.

Ok fair. MADAM PRESIDENT above the fold, LOSER under the fold

In the interest of hitting where it really hurts, maybe put LOSER and his picture on the front page of the Nov 8 edition?
posted by Mooski at 9:55 AM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

Ok fair. MADAM PRESIDENT above the fold, LOSER under the fold

I dunno. I kind of feel like not even acknowledging Trump as a credible challenge would be the most cutting:

"Clinton, who was running without a serious opponent, won in a landslide over the assortment of fringe candidates put forward by the Libertarian, Republican and Green parties..."
posted by dersins at 9:58 AM on October 9, 2016 [57 favorites]

Saying that women who like 50SoG must be ok with assault is like saying that people who like Die Hard must be ok with terrorism.

best metaphor right there.

Ok fair. MADAM PRESIDENT above the fold, LOSER under the fold / In the interest of hitting where it really hurts, maybe put LOSER and his picture on the front page of the Nov 8 edition?

Save MADAM PRESIDENT for Nov 9 - that's when it actually means something and Clinton can slow down enough to appreciate it.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 9:58 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Rudy: [going on about hillary saying one thing to private investors yet another to the public]

I've never paid close attention to that particular criticism and can't play the video now, but can someone please clue me in: What, exactly, is the Republicans' beef here?

Is it (a) that Hillary is sekretly pro-Wall Street? Because that doesn't make much sense to me. I mean, being pro big business, lower taxes, socializing losses, privatizing profits, that's a Republican thing, isn't it? In fact, isn't that the core of the Republican agenda? So how could she be possibily out-Republican the Republicans and why would the Republicans be complaining about it?

Or is it (b) that she is lying, because she just pretends to be all lefty and Socialist and all, while in truth, she is a closet-Republican, cozying it up with Wall Street? Because that doesn't make much sense either, see (a).
posted by sour cream at 9:58 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

1.

While Bill Clinton is irrelevant to the Trump story, I don't like the Bill Clinton apologiae in this thread. One person used the expression "enthusiastic consent". An employee (and a very low-power employee at that) cannot be said to truly enthusiastically consent to sex with her (extremely powerful and direct-report) employer. What Bill Clinton did is sexual harassment and abuse of power.

Pointing out Trump's wrongdoings does not necessitate winking at Bill's. No powerful man should ever assume it is OK to make sexual advances towards a female subordinate.

2.

On a completely different note, WTF is wrong with Dilbert creator Scott Adams?
posted by splitpeasoup at 10:00 AM on October 9, 2016 [14 favorites]

Democrats on Facebook be like
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:01 AM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

NEWS: Trump urges surrogates to unload on Republicans abandoning him.

I'm humming the phrase "stronger together" like it's the chorus of a catchy show tune.
posted by puddledork at 10:03 AM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

>And after the Clinton campaign's masterstroke with Alicia Machado, I fully expect them to deploy a similar revelation tonight.

You know Trump will want to (try to) duplicate at today's debate what the Clinton campaign did at the first debate with the Machado video.

Trump is generally pretty transparent in this thinking, so we probably already know the direction this supposed "surprise" is likely to take. But who knows, maybe there will be something new-ish (ie, not new in the sense that nobody knows about it at all, but new in the sense that Trump hasn't already been darkly blathering about it for a few weeks or months).

I'm inclined to agree with those above who are saying the Trump and his advisors are very likely to believe that going negative is the campaign's only hope.

Or in other words--and not for the last time in this campaign!--the Onion article has again come true: Trump Campaign Ponders Going Negative.

The good news is, this is exactly the course most likely to lead to a rout for Clinton and the Democrats. We'll see . . .
posted by flug at 10:04 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

What, exactly, is the Republicans' beef here?

It's perfectly valid for Republicans to criticize Hillary for being too conservative in an effort to undermine some of the lefty cred she's earned by moving towards the Sanders end of the spectrum, and it's certainly one of her largest vulnerabilities. They don't have to disagree with her to use it against her.

That being said, the actual content of her paid speaking gigs is the weakest of weak tea, and that's before comparing it to the bombshell nature of Trump's Access Hollywood tapes. Yes, she took Wall Street money, and yes, she said some things in those speeches she wouldn't say at a campaign rally in 2016. But at this point, that's sort of baked into her current base of support. Nobody thinks she's going to be Elizabeth Warren in how she handles the banks. What most of us want is enough progressives around her to push back against any tendencies she may have toward going soft on the finance industry.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:07 AM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

What, exactly, is the Republicans' beef here?

They don't have a specific beef. You have to stop thinking about politics as being about rational arguments. There are a lot of people who don't trust Hillary Clinton because reasons. They don't like Trump, but they can't quite bring themselves to vote for Hillary because she's just so darn untrustworthy. The Republicans think that bringing up the Goldman Sachs speeches remind those people that they think Clinton is untrustworthy, and that will get them to stay home. They aren't trying to make a coherent argument. They are trying to tap into emotions that they think will influence people's behavior.

The sad thing is that it will probably work on some people.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:07 AM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

MAKE AMERICA RIDE OR DIE
posted by a lungful of dragon at 10:08 AM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

I'm on the record saying that Michelle Obama, Sophie Gregoire, and all other spouses of politicians and candidates should be left alone to be private citizens, irrelevant to their spouses' political careers and not having any duties handed them by virtue of their spouse's job. I make a point of not reading or clicking any articles about political spouses, which is why I'm not sure why I clicked that yucky Clinton-responding-to-being-called-a-rapist link above.

Anyway, sexual predator though he may be, I feel I'm in pretty sound and internally consistent ground in refusing to read about any of this stuff and considering it irrelevant. Present it in the context of past-president without making it about a current candidate, and I might find that interesting in the same way I might be interested to read a similar article about JFK.

If Hilary mistreated his accusers, that's on her, of course, but it's a separate issude and doesn't to really be the main focus of the attack so there doesn't seem to be much about that directly, instead of about Bill's behaviour. And as someone upthread said, a rapists enabler is at least mildly better than a rapist
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 10:10 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

This is the gut-check I ask you to make: If a Republican woman were running, and we believed her husband had raped women, and she helped him gain positions of power, would we shrug about it?

This is showing up a lot in my circle, so let me add some comments to the excellent ones already made that Bill is not running, has been through a legal hearing, and has not to public knowledge had similar misbehavior since, none of which can be said for Donald.

1. Maybe Hilary and Donald should never have been the final candidates. But Republicans chose Trump over a good number of better qualified candidates, despite warnings from Romney (and mefi's own corb!) among others. HIlary has 20+ yrs public service in a large number of widely varying roles.

2. Given these are the two final candidates, and even if the accusation were not a false equivalency and even if I were a Republican, my vote still goes to HRC as she cares about and understands the issues in way Trump has never shown. Health care, foreign policy, fiscal issues etc are not Trump's interests or strengths.

I'm extremely disappointed that 30-40% of Republicans, and more among the christian evangelical wing, are once again more concerned about unborn lives and false claims than real lives and real events.
posted by beaning at 10:10 AM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

Cnn’s @jaketapper eviscerates Rudy Giuliani for claiming all men talk about sexually assaulting women: "I have never talked like that."

Even better than Chuck Todd's takedown.
posted by chris24 at 10:11 AM on October 9, 2016 [24 favorites]

Archive.org link to the Scott Adams page for those who don't want to give him the traffic
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:12 AM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

> Clinton, who was running without a serious opponent, won in a landslide over the assortment of fringe candidates put forward by the Libertarian, Republican and Green parties...

Clinton absolutely ran against a serious opponent, 17 of them at one point from the Republicans alone. I appreciate the humor of what you said, but let's not act like Hilary is strolling into the White House without a hell of a battle. She's winning this; it isn't being handed to her.
posted by The corpse in the library at 10:13 AM on October 9, 2016 [37 favorites]

Someone from USA Today said on MSNBC that the largest gender gap in a prior election was 11 points. I'm thinking we'll smash that record...
posted by sallybrown at 10:14 AM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Creator/EP of Doc McStuffins Chris Nee on Twitter 27 minutes ago.
"I don't have the tapes. I've signed a Burnett contract & know leak fee is 5 mill. Hearing from producers/crew N word is the "much worse".
posted by qnarf at 10:15 AM on October 9, 2016 [12 favorites]

Re: Giuliani's appearance on Jake Tapper:
For what it's worth: "Throw the first stone" is from John 8:7, when Jesus shuts down a group of guys making excuses for assaulting a woman.

I hope we (as a society) can remember who defended Trump on this shit.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:15 AM on October 9, 2016 [44 favorites]

Yeah, I'm not sure how to respond to the 50 Shades meme either since everyone on those threads seems so clueless. Tempted to point out that the book has fucking shitty profanity like Holy Moses and Oh Jeez! but I think that'd be further muddying the waters.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:15 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

I think one of the reasons this revelation seems to be particularly damaging is that the recording was behind the scenes. Trump's supporters have always been able to justify his extremist opinions as being just those of a stage character, an irascible but goofy over the top old man who everyone hates but still lives. The fact that this was a candid recording makes Trump's outburst indefensible.
posted by miyabo at 10:15 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Creator/EP of Doc McStuffins Chris Nee on Twitter 27 minutes ago.
"I don't have the tapes. I've signed a Burnett contract & know leak fee is 5 mill. Hearing from producers/crew N word is the "much worse".

Can we crowdfund the fee?
posted by sallybrown at 10:16 AM on October 9, 2016 [27 favorites]

WTF is wrong with Dilbert creator Scott Adams?

Adams originally had some good observations about Trump using persuasion/propaganda techniques but for the last few months he's been trolling.
posted by Bringer Tom at 10:17 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Scott Adams: "Another rich, famous, tall, handsome married guy once told me that he can literally make-out and get handsy with any woman he wants, whether she is married or not, and she will be happy about it. I doubted his ridiculous claims until I witnessed it three separate times. So don’t assume the women were unwilling."

Literally advocating for one of fundamental features of rape culture, that the absence of active consent is implied consent. Ugh.
posted by AndrewInDC at 10:17 AM on October 9, 2016 [40 favorites]

Adams is one of those assholes who comes into some success and takes away the lesson that he was right to be an asshole all along, that being an asshole is The Way
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:19 AM on October 9, 2016 [53 favorites]

So what Scott Adams is saying is that some men don't need to get consent, because they know that every single woman in the world will consent to them just by the magic of their celebrity? Because that's astonishingly repulsive and stupid, even by SA standards.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:20 AM on October 9, 2016 [8 favorites]

I bet there's someone who would gladly pony up 5 million to help twist the dagger.
posted by drezdn at 10:20 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Yeah, I'm not sure how to respond to the 50 Shades meme either since everyone seems so clueless. Tempted to point out that the book has fucking shitty profanity like Holy Moses and Oh Jeez! but I think that'd be further muddying the waters.

Romance author @MostlyBree has an answer for this: Try to imagine a man tweeting "If men are so upset by this murder, who the hell bought 80 million Stephen King books?"

Then? Grow up.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:20 AM on October 9, 2016 [46 favorites]

I wonder if encouraging someone to leak the tape would be some kind of tortious interference, though?
posted by sallybrown at 10:21 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

So the sole Trump supporter on my Facebook feed posted a charming meme this AM suggesting women are hypocrites for being upset about Trump's words, yet making 50 Shades of Grey a best-seller

My gay right-wing cousin just posted this as well.
posted by waitingtoderail at 10:21 AM on October 9, 2016

If Hilary mistreated his accusers, that's on her, of course

I think this is the crux of the whole thing.

We know that Bill Clinton did some creepy rapey shit to women, and that it's not acceptable, and this taints him as a public figure. It's a matter of public record. (And I'm not inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt considering that Paula Jones' and Juanita Broadricks' cases were dismissed, because, yeah, POTUS vs. powerless rando woman, big shocker that a judge would side with him.)

We don't actually know what Hillary did, and every single accusation related to this amounts to the kinds of ridiculous sexist tone policing that women face constantly in almost every facet of our lives. There was no possible way for Hillary to behave in response to Bill's actions that would have been correct. There does not seem to be a smoking gun of recorded proof that Hillary took any specific action that would be beyond the pale for someone in her situation. So there's really nothing for us to react to there beyond bald faced misogyny.

(Also it occurs to me that "silencing" and "mistreating" are pretty murky accusations to throw at Hillary re any of this, since, what, she was supposed to invite them all around for dinner and give them hugs?)
posted by Sara C. at 10:22 AM on October 9, 2016 [41 favorites]

Borowitz is on it double-time:

Republicans Urge Replacing Man Who Hates Women with Man Who Hates Women and Gays

“For ninety minutes, he made no reference whatsoever to female genitalia,” the official said. “That showed he has what it takes to be President.”

and

Republican Party Could Recover as Early as 2096, Experts Say

One political scientist said on Saturday that the eighty-year time frame was “admittedly optimistic, but still doable.”
posted by fuse theorem at 10:22 AM on October 9, 2016 [18 favorites]

More on the Apprentice tapes from Jack Davis (Twitter): @chrisdocnee @TVietor08 IIRC post-production was done by LA Digital Post. Raw footage was in Avid Unity system. 40+ people had access.
posted by sallybrown at 10:25 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

The Sanctification of White Pussy.
posted by TwoStride at 10:25 AM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

I don't want to get too shocking with the anti-Clinton accusations here or break any new scandals, but it has occurred to me that a man who was willing to rape someone might also be willing to go so much deeper into the forest of immorality that he also lied to his wife about it.

I have no opinion on any facts of any cases because the Clinton years were formative in my childhood thinking about men and what women can and cannot do to fight them, and I cannot be objective or put aside my likes and dislikes so easily. but if anybody is going to judge Hillary for what she should or should not have known and believed, you are morally obligated to honestly imagine what you would think if you heard that your loving, feminist spouse had raped somebody. not "Bill Clinton," a stranger and public figure, but a specific man or woman that you, personally, love and believe in. maybe you would act as though it were true until and unless he proved otherwise, and I believe that is the ideal standard. that's what I would do. but I think I would also have a consequent mental breakdown and retire from public life.

tl;dr: you do not know that Hillary knew or enabled or tacitly endorsed any sexual violence, even if you believe all accusations against Bill and even if you are right to do so.
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:26 AM on October 9, 2016 [28 favorites]

Leith Anderson, President of the National Association of Evangelicals: Character counts.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:26 AM on October 9, 2016

Okay, I know the 'not all men' argument is specious at best and actively fucking trolling at worst, but the more time I spend reading men's (yeah, especially white men) replies to this shit, the more I find myself wondering if there's a way I can just disavow the fuckers.

That'd be too easy, I guess, 'cause you can't enjoy the benefits of both sides of the fence, but christ on a sidecar it's frustrating to watch stupidity in action.
posted by Mooski at 10:27 AM on October 9, 2016

Good tab to keep open tonight along with MeFi and a livestream of the debate:

The Deadspin Ongoing Donald Trump National Humiliation Liveblog
posted by tonycpsu at 10:27 AM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

If Hilary mistreated his accusers, that's on her, of course, but it's a separate issude and doesn't to really be the main focus of the attack so there doesn't seem to be much about that directly, instead of about Bill's behaviour. And as someone upthread said, a rapists enabler is at least mildly better than a rapist

I've thought about this a lot. American values are to stand by your family in times of crisis. We take this value so seriously that we elevate the spouse to a similar level of confidentiality to counsel when it comes to communication and the disclosure of that communication in a court of law.
posted by Talez at 10:28 AM on October 9, 2016 [8 favorites]

So I went home to LA (Orange County, really) to visit family. This included an uncle (age 65) coming out from NC that neither I nor my mother or sister had seen for 8 years. He's been through some awful stuff lately, namely the sudden death of his girlfriend right after he retired.

Mom warned me he's voting for Trump. I know she's tried talking to him about it. She clearly didn't want me getting into it with him, though, because she didn't want to have a blowup where we wouldn't talk to each other for five years or something.

While I was at home, she discovered he won't even touch a newspaper. When she asked how he gets his news, he said he listens to Rush Limbaugh.

I saw the news about Trump's 2005 horror show while at Disneyland on Friday with some friends. I had no clue how to handle the issue when I got home. The thing is, I don't for a second believe my uncle would be okay with this shit. When you actually engage him on any issue, he's reasonable (he asked my sister and I about trans bathroom issues 'cause we're both teachers and he immediately believed us and felt better when we told him it's a wedge issue blown up by the right & trans kids aren't a threat to anyone). But I'm looking at this lonely, hurt old guy and thinking the last thing he needs is a heavy political discussion... and the flipside of it is I feel like I failed in a basic duty to speak up when I see something wrong, 'cause here's a Trump voter in the flesh and maybe I could've gotten through to him if I was willing to risk the loss of long-distance family harmony.

An awful lot of bad things led to this horrible place we're all in now, so I'm not discounting any of those, but even so... God, I want this fucking election to be over.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:30 AM on October 9, 2016 [21 favorites]

WTF is wrong with Dilbert creator Scott Adams?

I believe we've been ahead of the curve on the Scott Adams WTF front for some time.
posted by Dr Dracator at 10:31 AM on October 9, 2016 [51 favorites]

I had no clue how to handle the issue when I got home. The thing is, I don't for a second believe my uncle would be okay with this shit.

Just tell him what Trump said, the literal words he used. If he expresses more interest, show him the video. Give him a chance to do the right thing.
posted by sallybrown at 10:33 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Scott Adams is like "What a nice ship, I do think I'd like to go down with it."
posted by drezdn at 10:33 AM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

On a completely different note, WTF is wrong with Dilbert creator Scott Adams?

He is a narcissist who supports Trump because he understands how Trump thinks, as it's the same way Adams himself thinks as a "master persuader," down to his thought patterns. He actually said this in his blog, including the part about being a narcissist- other people told Adams he was a narcissist and lacks empathy, which is OK with him, because he doesn't feel shame. He actually said all that.

Sometimes it's hard to tell when Scott Adams is being sarcastic or ironic. This was not one of those times.
posted by krinklyfig at 10:34 AM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Trump RTed another Broderick video. He's desperately trying to push this into the sphere of discussion.
posted by Talez at 10:34 AM on October 9, 2016

Miami-Dade’s Republican mayor: I am voting for Clinton

"Miami-Dade’s Republican mayor, Carlos Gimenez, said Sunday that he would vote for Hillary Clinton and that GOP nominee Donald Trump should step down as his party’s nominee.

“I’m not going to endorse anybody,” Gimenez told Jim DeFede on WFOR CBS4 during a mayoral debate with challenger Raquel Regalado, a Republican who said she is remaining neutral in the presidential race but won’t vote for Trump. “But between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, I’m not voting for Donald Trump. Obviously, I must be voting for Hillary Clinton.”"
posted by chris24 at 10:37 AM on October 9, 2016 [23 favorites]

Russell Hantz straight-up spoiled two seasons of Survivor and Mark Burnett invited him back for another season (& literally changed the rules of the game to help him stay in longer), cast his nephew on two seasons and got his brother on another show. Remember this if he takes any action against Apprentice leakers.
posted by acidic at 10:40 AM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

I'll preface this by saying that I'm not saying the job is done, and that we can all back off and take it easy. That being said, I have to say that one thing more than any that is heartening me right now is this:

If you look at the win percentage graphs over time at 538, what we see is that when Trump manages to skate along in the news cycles, Clinton loses ground. All the constant little biting attacks from the right slowly erode her lead, until things are looking bad ... and then Trump has to actually do something high profile in public beyond just talk vaguely about his yuuuge, tremendous plans. Almost immediately, the public rebounds away from him. His "best" performance has been in the long lulls between those moments, and the thing is, as the campaign nears its end, those moments are coming at greater frequency.

We saw this at the RNC (and the week of ill-fated tweets following). We saw this at the first debate. We haven't even reached the point where we can see the fallout from his surrogates having to try to defend sexual assault as totally normal. And now, tonight, we're going into another debate, when he hasn't even had time to chip away from what Clinton gained last time.

As I said, I'm not saying this shit is over. However, I am saying I feel a hell of a lot more peace of mind than I did a couple months ago.
posted by tocts at 10:41 AM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Due to Facebook's weird insistence that what I really want to see is not my friend's posts but the public posts he comments on, I keep seeing him making these futile attempts to politely engage in debate with people who post things like "Why is what Trump said such a big deal, I know plenty of women who use way worse language than that!"

skycrashesdown: if you install FB Purity, you can set the preferences to take this sort of thing out of your feed. It's helped make my own FB experience much less GRAR-inducing.
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 10:41 AM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

Trump RTed another Broderick video. He's desperately trying to push this into the sphere of discussion.

How's that debate prep going, Donald? Shouldn't you be on a plane to STL by now?
posted by dis_integration at 10:42 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

$5 million leak fee? That's oppo research worth every penny. Would suck to be the leaker, though—they'll literally never work in this town again. How can a campaign compensate someone for the loss of their career?
posted by infinitewindow at 10:43 AM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

I bet there's someone who would gladly pony up 5 million to help twist the dagger.

Is there like a Glinda the Good tech billionaire out there who is looking to burn some cash taking down Trump instead of taking down Gawker? What would it take to find/convince them to serve a grateful nation in this fashion?
posted by blue suede stockings at 10:44 AM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

The LA Times ran an op-ed today with the headline "It Takes a Village to Raise a Misogynistic Monster Like Donald Trump."

The LA Times is the major daily newspaper in the second-largest city in the country. During the its early years, it was a mouthpiece for the Republican party. Today it referred to the Republican candidate for president -- actually name-checked him -- as a "misogynistic monster."

We're living through history here, actually watching it play out in real time.

God, I can't wait until it's over.
posted by mudpuppie at 10:46 AM on October 9, 2016 [43 favorites]

Is there like a Glinda the Good tech billionaire out there who is looking to burn some cash taking down Trump instead of taking down Gawker?

Mark Cuban is probably already negotiating a deal.
posted by gusottertrout at 10:48 AM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

It's perfectly valid for Republicans to criticize Hillary for being too conservative

You know, actually I'm going to say that it isn't. Republicans cannot, in ideological consistency, criticize Hillary Clinton for stuff that's in their platform. They can hit her from the right, but they have neither the ideology nor the cred to hit her from the left without us rightfully laughing at them.
posted by corb at 10:49 AM on October 9, 2016 [34 favorites]

Is there like a Glinda the Good tech billionaire out there who is looking to burn some cash taking down Trump instead of taking down Gawker? What would it take to find/convince them to serve a grateful nation in this fashion?

In many jurisdictions, paying someone off to willfully breach a contract is a tort. It could end up costing the hypothetical Glinda quite a lot more than $5 million.
posted by jedicus at 10:49 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Here's the pickle with the Apprentice tapes: as linked above, a couple journalists have hinted that there are two more anti-Trump stories percolating (one worse than #tictactrump, one equivalent) - whether these are videos or just stories, we don't know.

If these tips allude to the Apprentice tapes and no one has those other than Burnett, how do these journalists know such specific information about them (2 stories and how bad they are)? How does the campaign know about them? This extremely disciplined campaign is teasing stories they might not be able to produce?

Some more on Burnett and Downey: before the RNC, lots of people reported he was helping to produce it, which he continuously denied. Mother Jones noted:

In 2008, Burnett and Downey each gave the maximum donation permissible to Barack Obama's presidential campaign. After Obama won the White House, Burnett donated a hefty $30,400 to the Democratic National Committee. In the previous election cycle, Downey, who starred in the television show Touched by an Angel, supported John Kerry's presidential bid. In 2013, Burnett gave $5,200 to Alison Grimes, a Democrat who was challenging Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell. Last September, Downey sent a donation to Kathleen Matthews, a Democrat (and the wife of MSNBC's Chris Matthews) who was running for a congressional seat in suburban Maryland outside of Washington, DC.

Their political donations seem standard for a Hollywood couple. There is no record of either donating to a national Republican candidate in the past two decades.

I think Clinton has the tapes. (Roma, I'm sorry I threw shade on your lovely vacation to Russia!)
posted by sallybrown at 10:49 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

The thing is, I strongly suspect that Bill Clinton is a rapist, he's certainly a sleaze, it appalls me that he goes around being all avuncular and getting away with it, and I honestly think that while Hillary was in a very tough position with those accusations against someone she presumably loves, I find it really rape-apologist to stay married to an unrepentant rapist. I find it gross and it lowers her in my estimation. The affairs, whatever, but the rape is beyond that.

I'm going to pull the lever for Hillary like a pulling machine and I want everyone else to do so, because Trump and Ryan and Pence and Cruz are nightmare fuel humanitarian disasters. There's not much that could come out about Hillary at this point that would have even the shadow of the ghost of a prayer of changing my mind. I'm not voting for Hillary - I'm voting for the Medicaid expansion, the ACA, a Supreme Court that is not far right, some faint hope of getting women's healthcare back on the table. That's what I'm voting for, and no amount of personal garbage behavior matters to me in this context, even though if Hillary were my friend I'd dump her hard for supporting a rapist partner.

What do people think is going to happen to women who don't have food stamps or healthcare or housing because we pass a version of the Ryan budget? We're already seeing a rise in women doing sex work just for food, just because they are hungry.

Women who are poor and hungry are vulnerable to sexual abuse of all kinds. If you want to vote against rape, domestic violence, coerced sex work, etc, you need to vote for Clinton, as flawed a candidate as she is.
posted by Frowner at 10:50 AM on October 9, 2016 [98 favorites]

I think the issue with Burnett releasing the tapes would be that they could be evidence in a hostile-workplace lawsuit against him, right? He'd have incentive not to release them that went beyond the merely political.

The rumor I've heard is that one of the tapes has Trump using the n-word.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:52 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

God, I can't wait until it's over.

i can't wait to see the inevitable 2016 history channel documentary

also i hope they have one titled Donald Trump: American Failure narrated by either blue ivy or north west
posted by poffin boffin at 10:52 AM on October 9, 2016 [13 favorites]

Trump ditched his press pool in New York and fled to St. Louis without them.
posted by yasaman at 10:53 AM on October 9, 2016 [17 favorites]

I think Clinton has the tapes.

My faith in Hillary Clinton, albeit small, would like to believe that she does not have the tapes, or if she does, she only received them recently. I would like to believe that Clinton isn't capable of letting Trump continue as the nominee, letting racism rise in this country for four months, just so that she can have a candidate she's certain of defeating. I may hate a lot of Clinton's policies and ideas, but at least at this point, I believe that she fundamentally loves this country and I think of her as an honorable opponent to the Republican party. I just can't believe she could read stories of racism rising with every month he's in the lead and not release them if she had them sooner.
posted by corb at 10:55 AM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

Hey I know the comments about Anderson Cooper not being straight somehow makes him less likely to engage in locker room banter happened quite a ways upthread, but I just want to point out that WOW you people are out of touch with gay men and THEIR banter.

There are no boundaries to gay banter. Everything from scathing critiques of women's bodies to horribly stereotyped views of gay women and trans folks to how'd they'd "hit that" hot dude in the locker room. And then all the crap about turning straight men gay through the magic of their masterful seduction techniques.

Nope, we gay men can be just as shitty and often times MORE shitty than straight men.

Just thought you should know.
posted by disclaimer at 10:56 AM on October 9, 2016 [41 favorites]

"We can either vote for a liar, or we can vote for a dirty grandpa who cain't keep his mouth shut." undecided NC male voter on MSNBC
posted by sallybrown at 10:56 AM on October 9, 2016

Totally hoping for Trump to pitch a full-on Gorgan meltdown this evening.
posted by hangashore at 10:56 AM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

Corb, that's why they call it an OCTOBER surprise!
posted by KathrynT at 10:57 AM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

You know, actually I'm going to say that it isn't. Republicans cannot, in ideological consistency, criticize Hillary Clinton for stuff that's in their platform. They can hit her from the right, but they have neither the ideology nor the cred to hit her from the left without us rightfully laughing at them.

Except they're not saying "Hillary shouldn't be going easy on Wall Street and taking Goldman Sachs money." They're simply noting the difference between how she's campaigning and how she's speaking in another setting. It turns out how she's speaking in that other setting is more aligned with their policy preferences, but that's irrelevant to the critique of her duplicity (which, again, I think is bullshit in light of how not-at-all-damning the content of her speeches actually was.)

Think about how pro-choice Democrats often go after Republicans with the "should the mother face consequences" logic. They don't want the mother to face consequences, because they believe abortion shouldn't be criminalized, but it's perfectly logically consistent to expect logical consistency from your opponents when assuming their premises for the sake of argument.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:57 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Is there like a Glinda the Good tech billionaire out there who is looking to burn some cash taking down Trump instead of taking down Gawker? What would it take to find/convince them to serve a grateful nation in this fashion?

Jeff Bezos owns the Washington Post which may well have taken Trump down two days ago.
posted by octothorpe at 10:58 AM on October 9, 2016 [20 favorites]

And you know, what's more, in a way I get the Trump supporters who will vote for him no matter what a garbage person he is - they want the Ryan budget, they want internment camps, they want a border wall, they want to be able to discriminate, just like I want healthcare, union rights and a safe Supreme Court. I understand that people don't need to support someone's garbage personal behavior to want them in office. My issue with Trump supporters is the internment camps, the opposition to women's rights, the hatred of Jews and Muslims. They're willing to overlook garbage behavior because they want the policies and so am I - the problem is that they want racist, murderous, immoral policies.
posted by Frowner at 10:58 AM on October 9, 2016 [32 favorites]

I would like to believe that Clinton isn't capable of letting Trump continue as the nominee

It isn't her decision. Her having or not having more evidence of Donald Trump being a horrible person does not matter at this point, really. This not on her. It is on the Republican Party. What more evidence do they need?
posted by everybody had matching towels at 10:59 AM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

I just can't believe she could read stories of racism rising with every month he's in the lead and not release them if she had them sooner.

It's Mark Burnett who has had them this entire time, not Clinton. If she has them, there's no telling when she got them. Could have been that someone went back after the AP article, just like NBC did with Access Hollywood.
posted by sallybrown at 10:59 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Trump is a germaphobe and never nude. He hasn't been in a men's locker room.
posted by humanfont at 11:00 AM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

@baker_alex:
"Priebus cancels TV appearances, advises RNC staffers to "do what's best for them." It's every man for himself in the #Republican party."
posted by chris24 at 11:00 AM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

Yeah, I'm real sick and tired of Republicans somehow resting the Trump candidacy on Clinton's shoulders.

Had the RNC bothered to vet the guy even on the level of, like, reading a Wikipedia entry about him, they could have put a stop to this a year ago.
posted by Sara C. at 11:01 AM on October 9, 2016 [58 favorites]

Trump sign update, Suburban Pittsburgh edition:

Neighbor across the street with Trump/Pence sign in the yard has moved it inside, in the window. Less conspicuous, but still there.

The folks across the street from my parents-in-law (Latrobe area) put their sign out in the middle of last week, just took it down entirely today. (video)
posted by tonycpsu at 11:01 AM on October 9, 2016 [13 favorites]

I got up too early, worked a while, then took a nap and had a terrible dream about the debate.

In it, Donald Trump took the first excuse he had to speak and said, "Yes thank you hello and I'd like to say how wonderful it is to be here, what a great crowd you are, what a great event, what a great country this is, and before we get started I'd like us all to just take a moment to pledge our allegiance to this great flag of ours . . ."

And he put his hand on his heart and started saying the Pledge. The audience started doing it too. Hillary did, but her hesitation and the look on her face gave the right-wing media the ammunition they needed to keep hammering away and squeak out a win. Just before I woke up, I was digging through an empty freezer and thinking, I cannot believe we are stuck with that mad old man.

I don't generally engage in election fanfic, but I thought the old subconscious did a horribly plausible job with that one.
posted by Countess Elena at 11:02 AM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

I'm not voting for Hillary - I'm voting for the Medicaid expansion, the ACA, a Supreme Court that is not far right, some faint hope of getting women's healthcare back on the table.

This, times a million. Also, though, think for a moment on how fucking tight/horrible/desperate Hillary's situation was/must have seemed to her in order for her to have made the choices she did. Or, she's a monstrous co-conspirator (who has, hopefully, since changed.). So, her personal life is more than I can wrangle, but I feel reasonably confident that she won't screw America just to show how mighty she is. I mean any 'Republican' candidate is a plain ole no fucking way.
posted by From Bklyn at 11:05 AM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

I'd bet the RNC are looking into a superdelegate primary model of their own right now.
posted by cmfletcher at 11:06 AM on October 9, 2016 [11 favorites]

"stuck with that mad old man" Uhmmmm...lets just stick with misogynist, sex offender, narcissist, racist, bigot, and leave his age out of it. It is not unseemly to get old, or be old, or get dementia. He stands on his own as consummately unfit for the US Presidency.
posted by Oyéah at 11:06 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Creator/EP of Doc McStuffins Chris Nee on Twitter 27 minutes ago.
"I don't have the tapes. I've signed a Burnett contract & know leak fee is 5 mill. Hearing from producers/crew N word is the "much worse".
Can we crowdfund the fee?

Ludicrous long shot but I just tweeted that post to Mark Cuban for whom that would be chump change. Here is my tweet if anyone would like to add support to that idea.
posted by madamjujujive at 11:06 AM on October 9, 2016

TBH normally HRC's seeming enabling of her husband's behavior would trouble me; that she seems to believe her husband, who is a known liar and adulterer, over the women accusing him of rape is especially troubling and gives me pause BUT when I stop and think about what the past 25 years must have been like for HRC, I'm inclined to give her more leeway than I otherwise might.
The thing is that Broaddrick's allegations surfaced at the same, convenient-for-the-Repulicans time as many many other allegations against both HRC and Bill. Add to that the fact that more than one woman accused Bill of rape and then recanted or changed her story, including Broaddrick, and that HRC knew Bill was having affairs. Add to that the fact that HRC herself was accused of a bunch of crazy, provably false stuff including embezzlement, fraud, insider trading, and murder by people who also did stuff like call 12-year-old Chelsea "The White House Dog" and that these were the same people who encouraged Broaddrick to come forward. (Add to that the fact that the media, who love this sort of drama more than they love the truth or decent public discourse, gave every single one of these ludicrous charges weight, and I can understand why HRC doesn't trust journalists either.)
The fact that Broaddrick, when approached by Kenneth Star in 1999, insisted there WJC did not rape her, and then later changed her story is not surprising to anyone who knows a vicitm of sexaul assault, but if I were HRC, and the past 25 years had been nothing but a barrage of attacks from a group of people who produced a woman with a flip-flopping story, some of which attacks were directed at me and my daughter, I'd be deeply skeptical of anyone allied with or supported by the Republicans. That's a weird, mindfuck of a bubble to live in for two and half decades. I'd be at the place where anything any Republican said about me or my family would automatically be read as a lie. It'd take a video tape to convince me probably. Even though I believe Broaddrick's story, I can totally see why HRC might not and why it isn't in any way hypocritical, given what her life has been like for 25 years.
Of course, I'd prefer for HRC to say publicly she believes Broaddrick and that she's forgiven BC and truly believes he's changed, and that said change doesn't excuse his past behavior, but he's not running for President, she is, and she is allowed to offer her own husband forgiveness even if she doesn't expect his victim(s) to, but I don't see that happening.
posted by eustacescrubb at 11:07 AM on October 9, 2016 [51 favorites]

The thread has moved on (mastery of understatement, check) but I can't let this sentence from the Deseret News go:

Trump’s banter belies a willingness to use and discard other human beings at will.

Belies? Shows seems like a better choice.
posted by kingless at 11:07 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Scott Adams: "Another rich, famous, tall, handsome married guy once told me that he can literally make-out and get handsy with any woman he wants, whether she is married or not, and she will be happy about it. I doubted his ridiculous claims until I witnessed it three separate times. So don’t assume the women were unwilling."

Literally advocating for one of fundamental features of rape culture, that the absence of active consent is implied consent. Ugh.

Also, like- sure, sometimes a dude comes on super strong without getting any kind of go-ahead signal, and it turns out the woman is into it. SOMETIMES. But that doesn't mean it's ok to do that, because until you try it, you have no idea if a particular woman will be into it or not.
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:07 AM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

fair enough, Oyeah, I'm sorry
posted by Countess Elena at 11:08 AM on October 9, 2016

(Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates, that NYT article about an increasingly isolated Trump made me have a sudden worry that he is going to commit suicide if he loses, and the thought put a lump in my throat.
posted by mynameisluka at 11:09 AM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

I just can't believe she could read stories of racism rising with every month he's in the lead and not release them if she had them sooner.

I got no problem believing that. Clinton is a political pragmatist, and if she thought running against Trump in the general was a five percentage point better shot than running against Cruz, she'd have damn sure held whatever ammo she had in check until after the nomination.

Look, Trump is scum, plain and simple, and would amount to a national tragedy if he became president, but I'm not under any illusions about what Clinton has done or will have to do as a head of state. I'm voting for her because what she wants to do aligns fairly well with my politics and because I'd rather set my balls on fire than have Trump as president, but I'm not putting her on a pedestal.
posted by Mooski at 11:09 AM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

I have a mountain of school work to do and I can't seem to stop refreshing this page. Thanks, Trump
posted by Tarumba at 11:10 AM on October 9, 2016 [12 favorites]

(Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates, that NYT article about an increasingly isolated Trump made me have a sudden worry that he is going to commit suicide if he loses, and the thought put a lump in my throat.

For this to happen he'd have to have some realization that he was to blame for his failures, and have some sense of shame. He's not going to direct his anger inward. He's going to lash out at others and do everything he can to delegitimize a Clinton presidency.
posted by dis_integration at 11:11 AM on October 9, 2016 [13 favorites]

Oates, that NYT article about an increasingly isolated Trump made me have a sudden worry that he is going to commit suicide if he loses

Honestly, the same thought crossed my mind - tbh I worried I'd wake up this morning to hear he'd done it. Then I remembered who I was thinking about. He's sure he's done nothing wrong.
posted by waitingtoderail at 11:13 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

To understand Donald Trump's perspective on the Clintons, Bill and Hillary, you have to recognize how much of Trump's brain is given over to Roger Stone. Roger Stone is a Trump adviser. He is a conspiracy monger. He puts together crappy books with wincingly bad arguments to his conspiracy theories. And, like Trump's embrace of birtherism, Trump embraces the works of Roger Stone.

On Amazon, Trump is quoted praising Stone's "Clinton's War on Women." This book talks about Bill Clinton's affairs and alleged affairs inflating them and giving details Hillary's participation in destroying Bill's accusers. The quality of the research can be weighed against the allegations that Stone makes saying that there is hard evidence the Clintons killed six (eight? I'd have to doublecheck) people to further their aims. He goes on to say there is inconclusive evidence that they have killed scores of people.

Roger Stone loves to make accusations about people killing John F. Kennedy. In a book on the Bush family, (Jeb! and the Bush Crime Family) Stone devotes an entire chapter to George H.W. Bush's possible involvement in JFK's assassination. (Stone put out this book during the primary season when Jeb Bush was a primary target. So Jeb Bush's father: possible assassin.) Of course, there was Ted Cruz's father possible assassin a little later. And Stone devoted an entire book to the conspiracy that LBJ killed Kennedy.

So does Stone claim the Clintons killed John F. Kennedy? Yes and no. Stone devotes several pages to the Clinton's killing John F. Kennedy, Jr. (they were behind the plane crash, in fact, there are many plane crashes of the Clintons' enemies). Stone says the evidence is inconclusive. (In a pre-launch book interview he promised to deliver the goods that the Clintons killed JFK, Jr.)

The thing is: this is Trump's mind. Most anyone else would have tossed or laughed Roger Stone aside, but then again, birtherism is the moon hoax for a new age. Trump actually believes the Clintons are evil woman-destroyers and mass murderers. Ironically, the co-author to Stone's anti-Clinton book is now going around saying that Trump is a pedophile.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:13 AM on October 9, 2016 [18 favorites]

I don't know, I feel like he is very dependent on social stature and the praise of others. Who knows, maybe this is a terrible thing to speculate about. I heard his biographers on Fresh Air a while ago and it really changed my view on him—I now think that he is deeply driven by insecurity and a need of social standing, so him being publicly abandoned by everyone has got to hurt even if he doesn't think he did anything wrong.
posted by mynameisluka at 11:14 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Had the RNC bothered to vet the guy even on the level of, like, reading a Wikipedia entry about him, they could have put a stop to this a year ago.

At the cost of a high likelihood of Trump going third-party, with his money and media presence to get things moving, and quite probably Peroting whoever they put up (and, let's face it, the field this year didn't have any naturally charismatic figures in it), if not permanently hiving off the promisingly-unPC “alt-right” from the tired, old Republican Party.
posted by acb at 11:14 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Mod note: One deleted; please don't be super gross; and also maybe let's not with the suicide discussion.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 11:15 AM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

Jeff Bezos owns the Washington Post which may well have taken Trump down two days ago.

Have to hand it to the guy: Bezos could have folded like every other media owner to have their properties fawn over Trump (or at least work hard to forgive his transgressions or make up false equivalences with Clinton, like the NYTimes did over and over again) just to preserve press access and maintain profits — but he didn't blink. The guy definitely seems to take the long view on the things he gets involved with.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 11:16 AM on October 9, 2016 [26 favorites]

Trump is a narcissist, in colloquial if not medical terms. He will react to a loss by bitching, whining, insisting he was robbed, and holding more rallys.
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:17 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

The most comprehensive NYT writeup on the Broaddrick story. From 1999.

‏@nickconfessore
"Many alleged assaults are (unfortunately) he-said, she-said. Broaddrick-Clinton is even more complicated."
http://mobile.nytimes.com/1999/02/24/us/on-tortuous-route-sexual-assault-accusation-against-clinton-resurfaces.html
posted by chris24 at 11:19 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Have to hand it to the guy: Bezos could have folded like every other media owner to have their properties fawn over Trump (or at least work hard to forgive his transgressions or make up false equivalences with Clinton, like the NYTimes did over and over again) just to preserve press access and maintain profits — but he didn't blink. The guy definitely seems to take the long view on the things he gets involved with

Well, Trump did explicitly threaten to send the Antitrust Division of DOJ after Amazon in a Trump Administration. Not that he doesn't deserve credit, but Bezos has some skin in the game.
posted by sallybrown at 11:21 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Buzzfeed also sums up the Broaddrick story quite well.
posted by saucysault at 11:23 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Mel Robbins on why the tape doesn't matter (CNN) : To his supporters, a vote for Trump is a way to flip the middle finger to the system, the media, the elite, the liberals, the know-it-alls and the people who pretend they're better than "us."
posted by Brian B. at 11:25 AM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

If only there was a word to describe my current feeling, perhaps German.

@JoePerticone
"I've never seen more panicked members of Congress and their staffers than I am seeing right now on the GOP side."

@JakeSherman
"the level of panic among House Republicans is truly unlike anything i've seen in the 7 years i've been covering them."
posted by chris24 at 11:28 AM on October 9, 2016 [29 favorites]

Mel Robbins on why the tape doesn't matter (CNN) : To his supporters, a vote for Trump is a way to flip the middle finger to the system, the media, the elite, the liberals, the know-it-alls and the people who pretend they're better than "us."

Fantastic, they can flip the finger and lose in an historic landslide. His supporters don't matter. They are only 40%.
posted by chris24 at 11:29 AM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

the people who pretend they're better than "us."

Nailed it
posted by Sara C. at 11:29 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Because that's astonishingly repulsive and stupid, even by SA standards.

Adams doesn't have standards. He has guidelines.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 11:30 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

I have a mountain of school work to do and I can't seem to stop refreshing this page. Thanks, Trump

Hell, I have a mountain of school work to grade, and I'm in the same boat. Maybe we could just call for an academic time out until November 9?
posted by bibliowench at 11:31 AM on October 9, 2016 [17 favorites]

Mel Robbins on why the tapes may not matter (CNN) : To his supporters, a vote for Trump is a way to flip the middle finger to the system, the media, the elite, the liberals, the know-it-alls and the people who pretend they're better than "us."

I'm already tired of this line of talking about this. It's base assumption is that what matters is Trump's supporters leaving him. Sure that would be great but bigger picture it's not what actually matter. Trumpsters can bleep about this not meaning he's defeated because they are staying loyal, only matters that he can't win with just those people.
posted by Jalliah at 11:31 AM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Bezos is the primary sponsor of the Clock of the Long Now, to the tune of some $41 million. The clock is a project designed to keep time for 10,000 years with minimal human maintenance. To say Bezos has a long view of things is perhaps understating it.
posted by fragmede at 11:31 AM on October 9, 2016 [31 favorites]

Creator/EP of Doc McStuffins Chris Nee on Twitter 27 minutes ago.
"I don't have the tapes. I've signed a Burnett contract & know leak fee is 5 mill. Hearing from producers/crew N word is the "much worse".

The rumor I've heard is that one of the tapes has Trump using the n-word.

His support with black Americans is already at as close to zero as you can probably get.

So the only value of this is that it could move some other people away from Trump who are uncomfortable enough with extremely overt racism against black people to move their vote. These would have to be people who are completely okay with the overt racism that has been on display from Trump until now and the Republican party since forever.

I can't even really imagine who these people would be.
posted by srboisvert at 11:31 AM on October 9, 2016 [12 favorites]

I just went to that NYT story from 1999 and the bottom has the "most popular on nytimes.com" box. There are 10 links. Every single one is about Trump or republicans running away from Trump. Wow.
posted by R343L at 11:33 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

> "Fantastic, they can flip the finger and lose in an historic landslide."

Yup. They cannot win with only the angry nihilist vote. Cannot. I mean, yes, yes, we KNOW the angry nihilists are going to vote for Trump. Bully for them. If that's all he gets, HE LOSES.

(... Has anyone else been eerily reminded of the way the Hugo Awards have gone down the past couple of years, by the way?)
posted by kyrademon at 11:34 AM on October 9, 2016 [18 favorites]

To his supporters, a vote for Trump is a way to flip the middle finger to the system, the media, the elite, the liberals, the know-it-alls and the people who pretend they're better than "us."

Who's pretending?
posted by sallybrown at 11:37 AM on October 9, 2016 [23 favorites]

"Angry Nihilists: Doing for America what they've done for Science Fiction" would make a hell of a meme.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 11:37 AM on October 9, 2016 [8 favorites]

Why aren't reporters staking out Mark Burnett? Have a little box in the corner of CNN with a helicopter shot of him driving down the freeway. If we have to have an obsessive 24-hour media machine that's capable of knowing where every Kardashian is at every moment, why not apply that same scrutiny to "the guy hiding the Trump tapes?" Make this a national story so when he goes to the gym or dentist or wherever, the clerk takes one look at him and asks why he's protecting Trump.
posted by zachlipton at 11:37 AM on October 9, 2016 [8 favorites]

Why aren't reporters staking out Mark Burnett?

This isn't Marc Cherry's house.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:39 AM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

I'm not sure I like or trust Jeff Bezos as theoretically he could assert massive influence on the media landscape to advance his and Amazon's interests.

But at least in this case he's clearly been giving the Washington Post reporters the latitude to follow every lead. The rapid turn around time on the TicTacTrump tapes (5 hours reportedly while NBC sat on them for around a week) speaks to the idea that Bezos is willing to let the journalists be journalists without putting too much legal or editorial control on them.

I really won't be shocked if there is a big exodus of major journalism talent towards the Post and associated properties after this election as I pretty much everyone imagines being Farenthold right about now.
posted by vuron at 11:39 AM on October 9, 2016 [14 favorites]

So the only value of this is that it could move some other people away from Trump who are uncomfortable enough with extremely overt racism against black people to move their vote. These would have to be people who are completely okay with the overt racism that has been on display from Trump until now and the Republican party since forever.

I can't even really imagine who these people would be.

I imagine it's a significant number. Up to now there have always been semi-plausible excuses for supporting Trump. Those are quickly crumbling. So who would switch? Anyone who thinks continued support will jeapordize their future political aspirations, their public image, their career, or their business interests. Being privately racist is one thing...being publicly associated with this level of undeniably overt racism is another.
posted by rocket88 at 11:45 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Angry Nihilists - maybe doing for America what they did for the UK.

The wrath! From atop the thing! You are not safe until Nov 9.
posted by Ilira at 11:46 AM on October 9, 2016 [13 favorites]

For journalism, I am hoping for the same level of self-examination that cable news had after election 2000. They blamed themselves a little bit for calling states before polls closed, potentially suppressing turnout. Now they are quite careful about this, and should be.
posted by xyzzy at 11:46 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm seeing the hashtag #HumptyTrumpty trending on Twitter and I love it. One of the best nicknames so far this season.

Humpty Trumpty talked of his wall
Humpty Trumpty had a big fall
And Alex Jones' horses
And Roger Stone's men
Couldn't put Trumpty together again
posted by stolyarova at 11:46 AM on October 9, 2016 [35 favorites]

@tedcruz:
"NBC had tape 11 yrs. Apprentice producer says they have more & worse. So why not release in 2015? In March? Why wait till October? #MSMBias"

Bitter, part of one? Bitter?

Maybe if you hadn't been kissing up to him in hopes of getting his racist, fascist supporters, you might've done some oppo yourself?
posted by chris24 at 11:47 AM on October 9, 2016 [30 favorites]

I'm strongly ambivalent about watching the debates tonight but I think I'm going to have to studiously avoid watching them. It's certain that Trump's going to do something totally unexpected (and it won't be step down) and given the stakes, it break my own JCPL-meter. Hate him all you want, he's a master of showmanship and the previous debate, where he said he'd stand by the results of the election took many by surprise - except he (by the Trump Projection Principle) is the dirty rotten liar that Clinton is accused of being. My worry is he'll say something completely unexpected and any that aren't solidly in Camp Clinton will have the excuse they need in order to vote Trump.
posted by fragmede at 11:47 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

honestly trying to imagine what they might have that trump's remaining supporters would find "worse" is making me physically ill.
posted by poffin boffin at 11:49 AM on October 9, 2016 [8 favorites]

So the only value of this is that it could move some other people away from Trump who are uncomfortable enough with extremely overt racism against black people to move their vote. These would have to be people who are completely okay with the overt racism that has been on display from Trump until now and the Republican party since forever.

But this is similarly true of the "Grab her by the pussy" tape. People who care about this sort of thing already knew that Trump treated women like garbage. The difference is that this tape, for whatever reason, spoke to people who had previously not been particularly concerned with this.

Theoretically, there are a lot of well meaning white people who think that Trump isn't *really* racist, because racists are people who go around doing things like saying the N-word a lot. And, I mean, Trump never did anything like that, he just has big plans for immigration and counterterrorism. (I obviously don't think this, just parroting what some "undecided" types might think.)

So a tape of Trump using the N-word (especially in an unequivocally racist manner, not like quoting a rap lyric or something) could absolutely sway people like that into understanding that, yes, Trump is one of *those* racists.

That said, no, I do not think it would have any impact on the African-American vote, nor do I think it would sway diehard Trump supporters who like him precisely because he is racist.
posted by Sara C. at 11:49 AM on October 9, 2016 [14 favorites]

Yeah the rumor is he says "n----r" in the tape. Not that we will see it.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 11:50 AM on October 9, 2016

my own JCPL-meter

What does that stand for?
posted by dhens at 11:51 AM on October 9, 2016

I don't think it's too likely Mark Cuban is writing that $5 million dollar check to cover the rear of anyone who leaks the Apprentice tapes:

Source: Trump-Backer Burnett Has Warned Staff on Leaks:

[T]he person familiar with Burnett’s thinking told BuzzFeed News that the producer is backing his star.

Burnett “is pro-Trump and has made clear to his teams that he will sue anyone who leaks,” the person said.

Another top Burnett star, the pro-Clinton billionaire and Trump foe Mark Cuban, defended the producer’s right to stay out of the fray.

“Burnett can make his own decisions,” billionaire Mark Cuban, who is also an investor on ABC’s reality series Shark Tank, told BuzzFeed News.
posted by blue suede stockings at 11:51 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

What does that stand for?

Justinian Current Panic Level.
posted by Talez at 11:51 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

JCPL is the Justinian Current Panic Level.
posted by xyzzy at 11:52 AM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

What does that stand for?

We've got a glossary just for questions like this.
posted by zachlipton at 11:52 AM on October 9, 2016 [12 favorites]

mostly I want this to be over so we can start pushing HRC on climate change, infrastructure, and all the other work she's alluded to. This is like binge-watching a Netflix series, knowing that eventually the purple man will get his, but there is a stack of papers to be graded. We have so much work to do.

And yet this fucked-upness is going on for weeks more, plus whatever the alt right decides to do with its wounded Nazi feelings post-election. That should be fun.
posted by angrycat at 11:52 AM on October 9, 2016 [12 favorites]

The wrath! From atop the thing! You are not safe until Nov 9.

I've been going outside, turning around 3 times, cursing, and spitting every couple of hours just to be safe, and I'm a little dizzy and dehydrated.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:54 AM on October 9, 2016 [26 favorites]

So the only value of this is that it could move some other people away from Trump who are uncomfortable enough with extremely overt racism against black people to move their vote. These would have to be people who are completely okay with the overt racism that has been on display from Trump until now and the Republican party since forever.

In theory, it would also mobilize voter turnout by people of color. And I know Black and Hispanic Trump supporters (well, Republicans who are still party-loyal) who are hanging on by their fingernails and this might be their last straw the way "grab her in the pussy" was for so many others.
posted by blue suede stockings at 11:55 AM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Well, you people made me finally give money to a candidate. HRC!

On a side note, by the time I reached the end of this thread, there were 675 new comments.
Will be reading more from you and your links until the debate tonight.
Thank you all.
posted by Gadgetenvy at 11:58 AM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

mostly I want this to be over so we can start pushing HRC on climate change, infrastructure, and all the other work she's alluded to

This is why I've said from the beginning that I take no joy in Republicans having an unelectable candidate. Important work happens during presidential campaigns--those discussions set the policy goalpoasts for the next few years.

I always like reminding people of how easy it is to see McCain's influence in Obamacare. Those debates set the boundaries for what a healthcare reform could look like. Trump has nothing to add to anything. He's a gallstone.
posted by roll truck roll at 11:59 AM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

Utah's Top Mormons in ‘All-Out Revolt’ Against Donald Trump

Utah could be blue? What the fuck is going on?
posted by Talez at 12:00 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

Hilarious, schadenfreudey update: Scott Adams changes his endorsement to Gary Johnson even though "Gary Johnson is a pot head who didn’t know what Allepo [sic] was."
posted by speicus at 12:02 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

Theoretically, there are a lot of well meaning white people who think that Trump isn't *really* racist, because racists are people who go around doing things like saying the N-word a lot. And, I mean, Trump never did anything like that, he just has big plans for immigration and counterterrorism. (I obviously don't think this, just parroting what some "undecided" types might think.)

Exactly. As the last debate made clear, an enormous portion of the population does not believe systemic (or institutional, if you prefer that term) racism exists. They don't see policies like stop-and-frisk or "extreme vetting" as discriminatory and laugh in the face of a disparate impact argument. To them, a racist wears a white hood and says the N-word a lot, and this worldview works great for them: "hey, I don't do those things, so therefore I'm not a racist, so therefore I need not ever think about race." A tape like the one people claim exist would move Trump squarely into the "actual racist" camp for these people.

He'd still have plenty of supporters of course, but many of the people who believe it's important to not look like a racist, even if you support racist policies, would have to peel off.
posted by zachlipton at 12:03 PM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

> "The wrath! From atop the thing! You are not safe until Nov 9."

I know. I wasn't saying he would definitely lose. Only that he will if he manages to drive away everyone but the angry nihilists. He's made a good start on that, but it's not over yet.
posted by kyrademon at 12:03 PM on October 9, 2016

Lawrence O'Donnell ‏@Lawrence
Pundits must stop saying @realDonaldTrump must show "contrition." It's not fair to use words Trump doesn't understand.

FUCKING SAVAGE!
posted by Talez at 12:04 PM on October 9, 2016 [35 favorites]

> (... Has anyone else been eerily reminded of the way the Hugo Awards have gone down the past couple of years, by the way?)

It is not a coincidence. (link points to to a Google cache of Breitbart's index of Vox Day articles.)
posted by at by at 12:06 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

So the only value of this is that it could move some other people away from Trump who are uncomfortable enough with extremely overt racism against black people to move their vote. These would have to be people who are completely okay with the overt racism that has been on display from Trump until now and the Republican party since forever.

So yesterday I knocked doors in a neighborhood where there were a lot of people who had clearly been hardcore Bernie supporters. There were three people, all middle-aged, upper-middle-class white people, who told me that a month ago they were planning not to vote, but now they were leaning towards voting for Hillary to stop Trump. One of them had a ballot, and when I asked her if she'd fill it out and walk with me to the mail box to mail it, she said she couldn't bring herself to do it yet. She was going to wait for a little while to make sure that she could bring herself to vote for that awful, evil woman. I think there's a pretty good chance that she never will. But something like another really damning Trump tape could be the impetus she needs to put her ballot in the mailbox.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 12:06 PM on October 9, 2016 [15 favorites]

> "Hilarious, schadenfreudey update: Scott Adams changes his endorsement to Gary Johnson ..."

Just to be clear, in an earlier post, Adams explicitly said he would change his endorsement to Gary Johnson in order to prove that shy Trump voters are a thing that exist, because Adams is a loon and I am writing no more about his ridiculous opinions on this subject from now until ever.
posted by kyrademon at 12:07 PM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

Trump's influence on Hillary's agenda will be absolutely massive if he can manage to take down Republican control of the House with him. Most analysts seem to think that a 6 point Hillary win is what it will take to potentially pickup 30 or so House seats mainly because of massive gerrymandering put in place following 2010 census.

Pretty much nobody thought the house would ever be in play and let's be honest it is still a big long shot but Trump has been the gift that keeps on giving in regards to the Clinton campaign.

Considering that a Speaker Pelosi would be at best a 2 year position of power as there is basically no chance to maintain that level of control past the 2018 midterms I could see Clinton hitting the ground running. Keep in mind that in comparison to Obama 08 where the issues with seating Franken and then the death of Ted Kennedy as well as the inexperience of the Obama administration in handling legislation limited the impact of Obama's first couple of years in office I could see Clinton trying to achieve a large number of policy objectives.
posted by vuron at 12:08 PM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

$5 million leak fee? That's oppo research worth every penny. Would suck to be the leaker, though—they'll literally never work in this town again. How can a campaign compensate someone for the loss of their career?

Even using a very conservative 3% discount rate, getting $5 million now is the equivalent of being paid more than $250,000 / year for the next 25 years, which seems like a pretty decent career, so.
posted by dersins at 12:08 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

I thought of a way that Anderson Cooper could phrase the question about the videotape so that he takes the teeth out of the Bill Clinton blowback:

"Mr. Trump, we've all seen the news reports about that, er, incident from 2005. I note here, though, that in response to this, one of your actions was to counter-accuse Bill Clinton for his own sexual misconduct. Mr. Trump, can you explain why your response targeted Bill Clinton, who is not running for office, instead of at Secretary Clinton, who actually is your opponent?"

I mean, it'll never happen, but I can dream.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:09 PM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

One for the Blackadder fans, Baldrick (@Tony_Robinson) tweeted Trump: ‏.@realDonaldTrump My Lord, I have a cunning plan... (via Diane Duane's tumblr)
posted by oh yeah! at 12:09 PM on October 9, 2016 [20 favorites]

CNN chryon said Bill and Chelsea will attend the debate tonight.
posted by cashman at 12:09 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

Just to be clear, in an earlier post, Adams explicitly said he would change his endorsement to Gary Johnson in order to prove that shy Trump voters are a thing that exist, because Adams is a loon and I am writing no more about his ridiculous opinions on this subject from now until ever.

Scott Adams has all the grasp of irony and sarcasm of a 11-year-old who responds to an order to clean his room with a Bellamy salute and a "Ja, mein Fuhrer!" I've given up on his Vizzini-like attempts to signal who the all-important Scott Adams endorsement belongs to.
posted by Countess Elena at 12:10 PM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

I think the Post is going to prove that the online subscription model can work if you get good stories. The problem until now is the content has largely been bullshit.
posted by humanfont at 12:11 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

And I should say that the overwhelming majority of people I talked to yesterday said they were voting for Hillary, and so many of them signed up for absentee ballots that I ran out of forms before I was done with my packet. I am not maligning former Bernie supporters here or suggesting that most of them are reluctant to vote for Clinton.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 12:12 PM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

Trump video insulting Obama on his video blog in 2011 for saying things on a live mike.

@BraddJaffy
"How smart is somebody that starts talking negatively ... and his mic is on? Ya think that's smart? I don't." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs-sIOe0X44
posted by chris24 at 12:12 PM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

> (... Has anyone else been eerily reminded of the way the Hugo Awards have gone down the past couple of years, by the way?)

I put out a new novel a couple weeks ago, and I've been a little dismayed at how several reader reviews have been disgusted by my "SJW agenda." Everything is open to criticism and my stuff is no different, but they aren't just saying I'm ham-fisted with it or preachy; they're angry that I include any sense of social justice at all. It's not even a major part of the novel, but apparently any degree of recognition that the world is inherently unfair to most people is enough to ruin any book.

But what really frustrates me is to see these same complaints come about over the last couple weeks, and even this weekend, while I'm like dudes are you not paying attention to this election? This shit actually happens! In real life! With way less subtlety than you'll find in fiction!
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:13 PM on October 9, 2016 [11 favorites]

idk i think it's maybe a little overly optimistic to expect that any usage of racial slurs by trump, no matter how gleefully vicious, no matter how casual and obviously commonplace it is to him, would be considered worse by anyone still supporting him. his supporters are the writers of the comments we warn one another not to read on articles and blog posts.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:14 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

so many of them signed up for absentee ballots that I ran out of forms before I was done with my packet.

This heartens me.
posted by notquitemaryann at 12:14 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Waaaay upthread someone asked if Trump's latest scandal would affect LDS voters in Utah. The Deseret News is calling for him to resign.
posted by Waiting for Pierce Inverarity at 12:15 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

like how can you think that a tape of him saying the n word however many years ago would somehow seem worse than him calling mexicans rapists on live tv in 2016.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:15 PM on October 9, 2016 [17 favorites]

Very disappointingly, I've had the conversation where "Muslim isn't a race, so these terrible awful things he's saying, aren't actually racist, right?" Still, a vote for Clinton is a vote for Clinton, regardless of if the recording of Trump "actually" being racist is the particular straw that broke the camels back. Still makes my blood boil though.
posted by fragmede at 12:17 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

"Mr. Trump, we've all seen the news reports about that, er, incident from 2005. I note here, though, that in response to this, one of your actions was to counter-accuse Bill Clinton for his own sexual misconduct. Mr. Trump, can you explain why your response targeted Bill Clinton, who is not running for office, instead of at Secretary Clinton, who actually is your opponent?"

Trump wouldn't be able to understand what that question even means. He'd forget the first part by the time Anderson got to the end and wouldn't be able to put it all together.

I'm not being sarcastic.
posted by Jalliah at 12:17 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

that NYT article about an increasingly isolated Trump

...made Trump Tower look like the capitol of Mordor. All it lacked was a batch of Ringwraiths soaring around the tower, howling with the despair of the damned.

Which we won't ever see, because Giuliani and Christie can't fly.
posted by invincible summer at 12:17 PM on October 9, 2016 [31 favorites]

I think Trump has a case going into court next week, or so, calling HIM a live rapist, and that will happen in a live courtroom setting. I think the victim was 13 years old at the time, and the accusation is that he tied her down to accomplish this. In this country as a wealthy white male, he is innocent until he can pay, or bully, his way out of being guilty.
posted by Oyéah at 12:19 PM on October 9, 2016

@ppppolls
"2 of the first 3 private polls we've done that were conducted Friday-Saturday have Trump in the 70s of the Republican vote"

If this is true, it's a bloodbath. Romney got 90+.
posted by chris24 at 12:19 PM on October 9, 2016 [13 favorites]

like how can you think that a tape of him saying the n word however many years ago would somehow seem worse than him calling mexicans rapists on live tv in 2016.

Because there are a terrifying number of people who literally think that epithets are the end-all-and-be-all of what it means to be racist. Because you can generalize as much as you want, you can demonize as much as you like, you can deny the existence of systemic racism as much as you like so long as you do not say the bad words while doing it. So long as you don't use a bad word, you can say whatever you like about minorities and it just sounds like someone speaking their mind and not coddling people.

It's a fucked way to be, but there they are.
posted by neonrev at 12:20 PM on October 9, 2016 [29 favorites]

Chris24 - if the other 20% of Romney's voters are going to Johnson, could that give Trump a plurality?
posted by tzikeh at 12:21 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

idk i think it's maybe a little overly optimistic to expect that any usage of racial slurs by trump, no matter how gleefully vicious, no matter how casual and obviously commonplace it is to him, would be considered worse by anyone still supporting him. his supporters are the writers of the comments we warn one another not to read on articles and blog posts.

At the grassroots level his voters won't budge, no, because they have nothing to lose. But his supporters - as in his advisors, campaign managers, staff, institutional endorsers, and financial backers - have more to think about. They all must have a point where they can no longer afford to support him for the sake of their own futures. We're seeing that this week.
posted by rocket88 at 12:22 PM on October 9, 2016

if the other 20% of Romney's voters are going to Johnson, could that give Trump a plurality?

Romney lost by 4% even with those 20%. Plus if Rs are fleeing, Independents are gone.
posted by chris24 at 12:23 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Because there are a terrifying number of people who literally think that epithets are the end-all-and-be-all of what it means to be racist.

Yup - same reason everyone was on about "lewd language" and "locker-room talk" instead of "admission of sexual assault"
posted by tzikeh at 12:23 PM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

Scott Adams has all the grasp of irony and sarcasm of a 11-year-old who responds to an order to clean his room with a Bellamy salute and a "Ja, mein Fuhrer!"

It wouldn't surprise me to catch him cribbing from far better comic artists.
posted by indubitable at 12:24 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Correct link for tweet chris24 referred to: https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/785179324873895939
posted by Jack Karaoke at 12:25 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm sure the N-word would become a "comedic riff" that got out of hand, and besides anti-PC so good.
posted by argybarg at 12:25 PM on October 9, 2016

WTF is wrong with Dilbert creator Scott Adams?

Dramatically over attributes his success to inherent talents and skills, and dramatically under attributes his success to luck.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:26 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Waaaay upthread someone asked if Trump's latest scandal would affect LDS voters in Utah. The Deseret News is calling for him to resign.

Meh. Let's not forget that the Mormon church was happy to call for their followers to vote for Trump before the tape was released, and now they want churchgoers to vote for Pence, who is worse in a lot of ways.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 12:26 PM on October 9, 2016

And many of them will just stay home, maybe giving us the House.

Also, thanks so much for your consistently great contributions to these threads, chris24. I just realized that you're one of my primary sources for political news.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:26 PM on October 9, 2016 [13 favorites]

Romney lost by 5% even with those 20%. Plus if Rs are fleeing, Independents are gone.

Please excuse my ignorance, but there wasn't a third-party candidate polling at or near double digits for Obama v. Romney, though. Independents might be gone from Trump, but that doesn't mean they're voting Clinton, does it?
posted by tzikeh at 12:26 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Yikes, considering that Trump was already pretty much losing every group besides Republicans and White "undecided" voters by massive margins that sort of polling numbers would be awful.

Even if the majority of disaffected Republicans either stay home or vote for Johnson that could have massive impacts on downballot races.

Basically some candidates are explicitly going to have to come out and say "Come vote, I don't care if you don't vote for the Donald but you gotta save me!"

For a party that has pretty much been dependent on Party Above All this is a major major issue and frankly most Republicans are going to struggle with getting out that sort of messaging with 31 days remaining.

Add in the likelihood that fundraising is pretty much going to dry up at this point (Money doesn't like betting on almost certain losses) and Hillary and the DNC have an enormous warchest I think Republicans could be facing a perfect storm and that's before Hurricane Donald has at least 2 more chances of making things worse.
posted by vuron at 12:27 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Can we maybe just pretend for a while Scott Adams doesn't exist? There are lots more interesting people in this election to talk about.
posted by sallybrown at 12:27 PM on October 9, 2016 [81 favorites]

I keep wanting to mention signs / stickers I've seen here in Eastern Oregon / Eastern Washington. Mom's car, along with her "Hillary Lied, 4 People Died" thinkpiece and "Hillary for Prison" chucklefest, now in place of a no-longer-relevant Cruz sticker has a shiny new "Vote & Pray" sticker.

Given her political leanings, this would make Trump her candidate. I can see why Pray comes after Vote.

Then, while I have spotted two houses with TrumpPence signs, more popular seems to be a generic "Had Enough? Vote Republican"

I guess that is to attract the crowd who has had enough of successful, effective, reasonable, well-spoken presidents?
posted by hilaryjade at 12:27 PM on October 9, 2016

> Which we won't ever see, because Giuliani and Christie can't fly.

Well, Giuliani can't. I think you'd be surprised about Christie. But I've already said too much.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 12:29 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

idk i think it's maybe a little overly optimistic to expect that any usage of racial slurs by trump, no matter how gleefully vicious, no matter how casual and obviously commonplace it is to him, would be considered worse by anyone still supporting him.

Ok, again: it's not about support. It's about turnout. It's about convincing the people who are holding their nose to vote for him that they should stay home, vote third party, or leave that line blank. It's about convincing the people who mean to vote for Clinton that they should dig their ballot out of the pile of mail on their side table and fill it out.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 12:30 PM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

Getting it on tape, out there, takes away what he really needs. The fig leaf for all the in-the-closet racists. It becomes "You want to out yourself now Y/N?" That fig leaf was what all the church visits, minority "outreach" was about. We talked about it at the time. The tape would kill him.

Re: corb's comment above, I expect that to be a thing if it turns out the Clinton campaign sat on anything waiting for October. It's an argument for later, of course, but that's a tricky choice to make. I think it's savvy of Clinton to resist the urge to lash out with everything and risk looking bad later by withholding. Sometimes the best chance of defeating all that grossness in the long run is TO WIN.
posted by ctmf at 12:31 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Utah’s Top Mormons in ‘All-Out Revolt’ Against Donald Trump

We've got top Mormons working on it as we speak.

Who?

Top. Mormons.
posted by snofoam at 12:32 PM on October 9, 2016 [46 favorites]

Turnout will destroy him. He has no on-the-ground people. He has a small but significant devoted core, and then a lot of people who'll go "ugh work was crazy today, I'm just going to head home instead of delaying my dinner to go vote for Trump."

All the polls that are so bad for him are still assuming a competent level of turnout operation. And he appears to have none.
posted by sallybrown at 12:34 PM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

WTF is wrong with Dilbert creator Scott Adams?

No One Understands Donald Trump Like the Horny Narcissist Who Created Dilbert.

“When I observe Trump,” writes Adams, “I can see the scaffolding of his thinking process because it is close enough to my own that the patterns are obvious.” A bit later he adds, incredulously: “Do you know what flaws people most often accuse me of? Lack of empathy. And narcissism, obviously.” (He goes on to explain that, having sated all conceivable material desires, he, like Trump, is in fact driven merely by the knowledge that his “unique skill set can produce an outsized benefit for the rest of you.”)
posted by effbot at 12:34 PM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

"Hillary Lied, 4 People Died"

Only four? Pfft. Dubya lied, hundreds of thousands died. She needs to try harder if she wants to compete with him.
posted by Grangousier at 12:34 PM on October 9, 2016 [8 favorites]

If this is true, it's a bloodbath. Romney got 90+.

Yeahbut, except in states where it is, the vote isn't today. Some proportion of those Republicans are having a short-lived reaction to this, and in the alternate universe where even more stuff didn't come out between now and November they'd be moving back to him. What happens in our timeline, who the hell could know?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:34 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Tzikeh,

3rd party candidates often poll decently up until close to the actual election. At that point voters either break back to their default party or they decide to stay home. Considering that Johnson has the charisma of a Turnip the idea that he's going to capture a large number of disaffected Republicans is unlikely.

Best case scenario for Republicans is that disaffected Republicans still turnout and even if they vote for Johnson they still vote for downballot Republicans. Also they need Democratic turnout to be small (hahahahahaha!) because Democrats simply have a larger pool of Registered Voters.

Worst case scenario is that turnout is way down among staunch Republican loyalists because it looks like Trump is a big loser (Americans dislike being on the losing side) while Democrat turnout is increased because we are hopping mad.

Low Republican Turnout + High Democrat turnout is incredibly bad for Republicans.
posted by vuron at 12:35 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

As I had predicted on my Facebook earlier, Trump supporters don't care. They have two takes on this a) Hillary called Bill's accusers trash, so she's not as supportive as the Left makes her out to be. b) Fifty Shades of Grey used the same language and how did it sell 50 million copies if it wasn't women buying it?


Also getting a vibe that Trump supporters don't really give a crap about current GOP people disavowing him. One person posted that they ( GOP) wanted Clinton elected anyway.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 12:35 PM on October 9, 2016

but that doesn't mean they're voting Clinton, does it?

Correct. Obviously preferred if they switch to Clinton, but Rs that vote Johnson, or don't vote at all, hurt Trump regardless. Plus there's no swing states where Clinton is currently losing in polling according to 538. She's basically +5/6 nationally before the tape.
posted by chris24 at 12:35 PM on October 9, 2016

"Hillary Lied, 4 People Died"

Only four? Pfft. Dubya lied, hundreds of thousands died. She needs to try harder if she wants to compete with him.

This is also bass-ackward. The worst you can say, and I don't agree with this, is that four people died and then Clinton lied about it. Whereas Bush's lies were the cause of the war, not the response to it.
posted by zachlipton at 12:38 PM on October 9, 2016 [8 favorites]

#NextThread idea: include a reference or two to GraphFi and related tools that help track conversations and "most favorited" comments, noting that they're (generally? all?) not real-time tools that can keep up with page refreshes.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:42 PM on October 9, 2016

Here's the election in the style of the Avengers. Deeply unfair to Tony Stark to put him in Trump's shoes, but it's worth it to see Hillary as the Captain.
posted by une_heure_pleine at 12:43 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Am I missing something - wouldn't it strategically be more effective for the Republicans deserting Trump to say "I'm voting Clinton and voting downballot Republicans, so that no party has a lock on our system, and you should too"? A whole bunch of them are saying "I won't vote for Trump, and instead I'll write in someone of my choice and/or I don't know who I'll vote for." The people who follow them are not going to turn out to vote for Mystery Politician, and so they won't turn out at all. It's like this ancient fossilized hatred of Clinton has left them unable to see basic strategy.
posted by sallybrown at 12:47 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

Amber Tamblyn shares her story.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 12:49 PM on October 9, 2016 [33 favorites]

filthy light thief, that might be better suited for the wiki page.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:50 PM on October 9, 2016

The n-word tape issue isn't about Trump followers leaving him. It's GOTV insurance directed at the rest of us, lest we rest too easily.
posted by The Noble Goofy Elk at 12:50 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

wouldn't it strategically be more effective for the Republicans deserting Trump to say "I'm voting Clinton and voting downballot Republicans, so that no party has a lock on our system, and you should too"?

Clinton is winning no matter what they do, and Republicans who are dumping Trump are only admitting that they hate him as much as they hate Clinton. There would be no reason for those Republicans to destroy their credibility with their side by saying they were voting for Clinton.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 12:51 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Well at some point, the RNC has to go hard with "Clinton is going to win, so it's AN EMERGENCY THAT YOU show up for down ballot R's, so we don't give her the whole government."
posted by ctmf at 12:52 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Honestly, it's better from a Democratic electoral perspective for disaffected Republicans not to go out to vote at all; even if they vote for Johnson or leave the presidential line blank they will quite probably vote straight or near-straight Republican down the ballot.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:55 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

But most people will never show up to vote just because of downballot, especially if they're confused about who they "should" be voting for for President, no?
posted by sallybrown at 12:56 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Everyone but the most outspoken proud racists have been making excuses for him all along. "Some Mexicans really do commit rape", they say, "he settled that lawsuit without admitting guilt," "he said he didn't run a white-only club," "he was just joking when he said that," "he had a bad earpiece and couldn't hear the question," "it was a sheriff's star," "I didn't know the white supremacist's figures I retweeted were inaccurate," etc... The N-word tape, if it really exists, that's one people will have a darn hard time excusing.

I think of Trump and racism much like Trump and women: they're both missing stair situations. We have a giant catalog of incidents, things we all "already knew," but for some reason, none of them really stuck until we heard this tape. It would be the same way with a Trump race tape. A tape of Trump using the N-word would produce a visceral reaction in just about everyone (sadly, having that national conversation is also going to be painful for a lot of people who don't deserve that). The Stormfront-type crowd would cheer of course, but a good chunk of everyone else would feel punched in the gut. A good number of white people have all been taught from a pretty early age that, whatever you think or believe or do, you do not get to use that word in public and still be an ok human being. If you're famous and surrounded by people who owe you their allegiance, yeah maybe they can cover for you, but by in large, that's something people don't come back from anymore.

It doesn't have to make sense. There's no inherently good reason why that word is more terrible on some racism-o-meter than calling to ban 1.6 billion people from the country on the basis of their religion and having 43% of voters support you in that endeavor, but here we are. There's also no inherently good reason why the Access Hollywood tape is more terrible than the other occasions where Trump has been accused of sexual assault and disgusting behavior, but here we are.
posted by zachlipton at 12:57 PM on October 9, 2016 [17 favorites]

But Trump's 'fuck the establishment' posturing with respect to the Republicans pulling their support is going to hurt the down-ballot races, too. The hard-core trump supporters may end up voting for fewer of the house/senate/governor spots because fuck the establishment, while a bunch of the weak republicans just stay home.
posted by kaibutsu at 12:57 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Until there's a link, I think we can leave the rumor-mill alone on the n-word thing. I'm guessing it's just a rumor somebody started anyway. It has you mentally moving on from his comments admitting sexual assault, and also some likely feeling that those comments are diminished as being on tape saying the n word would become even more of a firestorm. And then of course no tape comes out.
posted by cashman at 12:58 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

WTF is wrong with Dilbert creator Scott Adams?

It's a nasty superstrain of Engineers Disease.
posted by rokusan at 12:58 PM on October 9, 2016 [13 favorites]

The minute the RNC tells people to forget about president and vote down ballot is the time Trump tells his supporters to stay home. They are right and truly fucked.
posted by chris24 at 12:58 PM on October 9, 2016 [21 favorites]

A longshot hypothetical: I get that the suggestion to not vote for Trump but write in Pence for president is a way of reaching out to vote-your-conscience GOP voters, and averting a collapse in turnout that would lead to a downticket bloodbath. But in the hands of a sympathetic state vote-counting agency (think Florida 2000), could 'voter intent' be judged that this is a ballot in favour of the Republican ticket? I know, it's a bit out there, and you'd need a close race in a state with a Republican-controlled executive branch (Ohio, Florida, North Carolina, Iowa, Arizona, ...?).
posted by hangashore at 12:58 PM on October 9, 2016

>Katy Tur on MSNBC saying that she is told that Reince is telling Republicans to trust their own judgment, and do whatever they want to in terms of taking back endorsements.

>@daveweigel: Sen. Roy Blunt tells me he'll still vote for Trump, and it's "unrealistic" to ask that he quit the race to be replaced.

The current Trump situation really puts a lot of Republican candidates in a bind, all right. Blunt is the incumbent Republican Senator in Missouri and he is currently leading his opponent, Jason Kander, by just 2-3% according to 538.

In 2012, Missouri's senior Senator Claire McCaskill completely destroyed her dimwitted opponent Todd Akin after he made his infamous "legitimate rape" comments. And this in a state that is supposedly moderately Republican nowadays. So on the one hand, Blunt wants to stay f-a-r away from anything like that. The last thing he wants to do right now is endorse Trump's antics or show any kind of open support for them.

On the other hand, with such a slim lead, he can't afford to antagonize die-hard Trump supporters by thoroughly repudiating Trump or withdrawing his endorsement. If he loses just 5% of those voters--which could easily happen if he went after Trump's idiocy in a serious way at all--he's sunk.

And on the third hand, Trump is up by about 5% in Missouri. So Blunt is depending on those voters to be enthusiastic and turn out. If Trump withdraws or collapses, that will be the end of Blunt, too. Just 5% of those voters staying home will sink his campaign.

So it leaves a guy like Blunt in a close race in a Trump-friendly state in a pretty tough place. He can't wholeheartedly jump on the Trump train, but he can't jump off it, either.

And this type of dynamic does help explain why Republicans feel like they can't really jettison really odious candidates or supporters. It's a kind of self-reinforcing dynamic.

(Though FWIW I feel like Blunt would probably come out looking better to almost all voters on both sides of the aisle if he actually took a principled stand on a clear-cut issue like this. Weaseling, waffling, and dancing around on issues like this are exactly what voters hate the most. And there is absolutely no question here about whether sexual assault is OK or not OK.

TAKE A STAND politicians! It will feel good and voters will like it, too . . .)
posted by flug at 12:59 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

I think we can leave the rumor-mill alone on the n-word thing. I'm guessing it's just a rumor somebody started anyway.

Same/different: I think someone may have just made that up because it's already hurting him just to be a rumor, whether it's true or not. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy, but that's not the kind of shit-slinging I want associated with my side. If it's true, let's see it.
posted by ctmf at 1:02 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

The campaign machinery is bigger than any of us.
posted by rhizome at 1:03 PM on October 9, 2016

Utah could be blue? What the fuck is going on?

Mormons are by and large sincere, not strategic voters, and Trump's monstrousness is a bridge too far. I'm really heartened by their deserting him in droves.
posted by corb at 1:03 PM on October 9, 2016 [35 favorites]

One person posted that they ( GOP) wanted Clinton elected anyway.

I mean, of course they do--at least the few who value the survival of the republic over partisan assholery. Their choice is between a brilliant, incredibly competent life-long public servant with whom they have some policy disagreements, and a narcissistic blowhard who might literally try to start a war because it's 3AM, he's feeling bored and irritable, and he has the impulse control of a psychotic toddler--and with whom they have some policy disagreements.
posted by dersins at 1:04 PM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

President Obama speaking now in Chicago.
posted by cashman at 1:04 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Great. My freak-out debate nerves have just kicked in. And they won't stop until I'm sure Clinton is okay and on top of it all. I try not to worry but I can't help it. Bah
posted by Jalliah at 1:05 PM on October 9, 2016 [8 favorites]

Well at some point, the RNC has to go hard with "Clinton is going to win, so it's AN EMERGENCY THAT YOU show up for down ballot R's, so we don't give her the whole government."

I expect that will happen sometime this week. My understanding is that it isn't unprecedented- didn't they cut Dole loose when it was clear he would lose?
posted by procrastination at 1:05 PM on October 9, 2016

Rep. Kay Granger, Texas's only female Congressperson, comes out swinging against Trump (twitter): "we have heard rumors...but watching that video is disgusting."

MSNBC mentioned a bit ago that there haven't been this many defections from a party's nominee in such a short period of time since the 1912 election.
posted by sallybrown at 1:06 PM on October 9, 2016 [13 favorites]

I fear some evil force has been awakened by Trump. Those who lived as internet trolls have come out from under their bridges and they're not going away.

Yes, they are. They're about to be historically shamed.
posted by rokusan at 1:06 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

WTF is wrong with Dilbert creator Scott Adams?

It's a nasty superstrain of Engineers Disease.

I think it's called MRSA—misogynist, reactionary smug asshole.
posted by ocherdraco at 1:10 PM on October 9, 2016 [43 favorites]

Yes, they did abandon Dole, but Dole didn't have an angry twitter account and a basket of deplorables at his control.
posted by chris24 at 1:11 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Yes, they are. They're about to be historically shamed.

They have no shame. That's why arguing never works against them.
posted by Talez at 1:11 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

But most people will never show up to vote just because of downballot, especially if they're confused about who they "should" be voting for for President, no?

I think there is a contingent of conservatives, particularly Midwesterners, that are very much steeped in a civic morality that includes things like "It is your duty as a citizen to vote." And a part of that understanding of civic morality means not saying out loud the kinds of directly misogynist things that Trump said (and racist, too, if the recent rumors are true). It's a very crude (no pun intended) sort of heuristic done by people who have a decent amount of privilege, to be sure, and it doesn't really take into account the systemic nature of oppression and all that...

But it does not do well with candidates for office using words like p*y and n*r.

Many of these types have already jumped ship to the Democrats in the last few years. More followed this year. But some of them are just going to show up and leave the President line blank.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:12 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

"If she has a chance to, I really hope that Hillary asks Donald Trump if he recommends that Barron grab women's genitals."

I really hope she DOESN'T as Clinton has taken an adolescent child through a presidential campaign in the past and seen that child used as a prop and a surrogate for ugly attacks on the candidate and she is pretty clear she's against that kind of gross nonsense.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 1:12 PM on October 9, 2016 [46 favorites]

One person posted that they ( GOP) wanted Clinton elected anyway.

The Mirror Universe Media machine certainly does. A Democratic President -- and especially that President being Hillary Clinton -- means that conservative pundits, radio hosts, columnists, etc. are on easy street for the next four years because everything that goes wrong in the entire universe is now HILLARY AND THE DEMONRATS' FAULT in the loudest voices they can muster.
posted by delfin at 1:12 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

There are certainly a lot of people who would absolutely let a Trump rant that includes dozens of instances of the n-word slide off their backs, or even like him all the more for it, but at this point all I care about is chipping further away at his base of support. I'm primarily worried about what happens after he loses* and we have to deal with the backlash of violent, deluded people who earnestly believe a massive conspiracy stripped them of their rights and put a murderous, corrupt woman into office to 'oppress' them. There will be instances of violence, we will see shootings of minorities and gov't employees/buildings.

I don't give a fuck about trying to bring those people around in time, I give a fuck about even the tiniest bits we can either get to either vote 3rd party or not vote at all. I care about the scale of our rejection. Every single vote matters, and even if it gets a couple of people to no longer talk approvingly of him at work or amoung friends then I consider that a victory. If him seeming to be losing badly amoung the general population before election day helps to deradicalize even one possible shooter or bomber, then fucking full steam ahead and don't fret over the people who aren't going to come around. All that matters is making them not want to vote for him.

*I have never once been worried that Trump might become president. (I have obviously worried deeply about what would happen if he did, but with the caveat that it would take a miracle for him.) He's a terrible politician running against a great one, a fool whose appeal is limited to a voting block that simply cannot support a victory against a wonk whose base demo makes up a larger portion of the voting population, an outsider with zero organizational skills and even less experience running for office against an expert insider with connections like the roots of a damned forest, a man whose primary scrutiny has been jokey at best in the past with reams of unused material against him against the person who has probably had the most political attention paid to her personal and political life in modern history and who came out of it without a scratch.

I'm not complacent, I'm just fucking confident. I'm not just voting for her because she is about as liberal a person as can get elected right now, but because she's obviously fucking skilled as all hell and been prepping for this for probably more than a decade. I'm just saying, fuck knocking on wood. I'm with her, and I'm sure as hell not tempering my support and confidence for the most qualified candidate I have ever seen out of some sense of superstition or performative fear and despair. Instead of worrying over us failing, let's get excited about what we can do after she's in office. Let us be motivated by optimism for the future and not fear of our failure. All we have to do is vote, and help others to vote. This is a time when basic civil duties rise to the level of saving the nation. We do our part and we have this. We've had this for a long while.

You know what scares the living daylights out of Trump supporters? Confidence. They can't stand it. They want to see their opponents as weak, and they love the gnashing of teeth and rending of garments some do at the slightest misstep by, or attack against, Clinton. I'm not giving to to them.
Be confident. Be proud and vocal. When you become fearful, remember that we have the voting population to toss him on his ass if we all do our part, and the single greatest campaigning organization that this country has ever seen backing us up. We're moving from strength to strength, and good morale is a powerful drug. Let's get high on that and win this fucking thing, shall we?
posted by neonrev at 1:13 PM on October 9, 2016 [39 favorites]

Yard sign update: I am no longer alone! Someone down the block has put up one standard hillary yard sign and one banner with the big red and blue H that I think they may have had printed up independently. I cannot express how happy this makes me to not be the lone vocal supporter in the neighborhood.
posted by Sophie1 at 1:16 PM on October 9, 2016 [18 favorites]

You know what scares the living daylights out of Trump supporters? Confidence. They can't stand it.

...Yeah. That's when The Star-Spangled Banner started playing in my head.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 1:17 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

My understanding is that it isn't unprecedented- didn't they cut Dole loose when it was clear he would lose?

The RNC certainly adopted the strategy of focusing on down ballot races, but the GOP as a whole remained officially united behind Dole as the Republican candidate. In other words, there was no explicit mass exodus of support in terms of elected officials rescinding their endorsements or demanding that the candidate step down, nor the schism-turned-warfare between the party and the base that is present now.
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 1:18 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

> "MSNBC mentioned a bit ago that there haven't been this many defections from a party's nominee in such a short period of time since the 1912 election."

And that did not end up going well for Taft. (Considering it was an election where a major-party candidate ended up finishing third ...)
posted by kyrademon at 1:20 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

The Thanksgiving dinner of schadenfreude: A generation of GOP stars stands diminished: ‘Everything Trump touches dies’ (from, of course, the Post):

“There is nobody who holds any position of responsibility who in private conversations views Donald Trump as equipped mentally, morally and intellectually to be the president of the United States,” said Steve Schmidt, a veteran GOP strategist. “But scores of Republican leaders have failed a fundamental test of moral courage and political leadership in not speaking truth to the American people about what is so obvious.” . . .

“Everything Trump touches dies,” said Republican consultant Rick Wilson, who is advising independent candidate [and Metafilter's own Egg] Evan McMullin. John “Mac” Stipanovich, a GOP insider and lobbyist in Florida, said, “Most Republican office-holders gritted their teeth and endorsed and even embraced Donald Trump. . . All of those people were collaborators, and all of those people will have to live with their collaboration for the rest of their political lives.” . . .

John Weaver, a longtime strategist and Kasich adviser, likened the situation to going back in time and offering Republican office-holders a ticket on the maiden voyage of the Titanic. “They bought the ticket knowing there wouldn’t be enough life rafts once the ship hit the iceberg,” Weaver said. “We knew that no one who has gotten involved with Donald Trump in his personal life, in his professional life or in his political life has come out of that for the better. No one,” he added. “So why any of our aspiring political leaders thought that they could survive being associated with him and grow from that is beyond me.” . . .

“The Republican Party will look like Berlin circa 1945,” Schmidt said. “The wreckage will take a substantial amount of time to pick up. There will be a restoration, but it is going to require a monumental feat of leadership by someone who has not yet revealed themselves to the American people.”

posted by sallybrown at 1:21 PM on October 9, 2016 [36 favorites]

God, this weekend. I think my schaden-glands reached an overtaxed status right as my supply of evens was depleted. All I know is this: tomorrow is my birthday. And the only gift I want or need* is to spend my birthday morning noshing on delicious post-debate flame-out coverage. Hear me, o Universe, pretty please.

*besides a Powell's gift card, let's be real
posted by palomar at 1:22 PM on October 9, 2016 [17 favorites]

Somebody in the background of Jake Tapper's show is holding a sign that reads HILLARY EATS PIZZA WITH A FORK
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:23 PM on October 9, 2016 [15 favorites]

Joy Reid is stating pretty confidently on Twitter that Mark Burnett is fully a Trump supporter and has threatened employees over any leaks.
posted by Sophie1 at 1:23 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Yeah, the Dole thing was much more, "You're a great guy, Bob, but you aren't going to win, so we need to focus funds elsewhere", and much less, "We hate you with a burning intensity and we're not voting for you."
posted by kyrademon at 1:23 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

> ..likened the situation to going back in time and offering Republican office-holders a ticket on the maiden voyage of the Titanic. “They bought the ticket knowing there wouldn’t be enough life rafts once the ship hit the iceberg...”
> “The Republican Party will look like Berlin circa 1945,”

Holy fuck can they pick their metaphors.
posted by at by at 1:26 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

The Republican Party will look like Berlin circa 1945,” Schmidt said. “The wreckage will take a substantial amount of time to pick up. There will be a restoration, but it is going to require a monumental feat of leadership by someone who has not yet revealed themselves to the American people.”

I read that as "not yet retweeted themselves to the American people" and thought, yeah, pretty much.
posted by tzikeh at 1:28 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

@KellyannePolls Kellyanne Conway (real)
@JebBush does this bother you? Staffer that helped you win 3 delegates in 2016 @timodc talks about Trump PLANE CRASH w all of us on board.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:29 PM on October 9, 2016

I will pick a spouse who enabled a rapist over an actual rapist any day of the week.

This fucking year, man. This fucking year.
posted by rokusan at 1:29 PM on October 9, 2016 [21 favorites]

Surely the servers holding all the Apprentice video are on a network. If all these hacker-leakers want to do something useful, maybe they should add those videos to their shopping lists.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:29 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

To which downticket races would it be most strategic to donate at this point? I know McGinty's race is close but I don't know about many other races. It seems like a great time to capitalize on the GOP's meltdown.
posted by mcduff at 1:30 PM on October 9, 2016

I'm primarily worried about what happens after he loses* and we have to deal with the backlash of violent, deluded people who earnestly believe a massive conspiracy stripped them of their rights and put a murderous, corrupt woman into office to 'oppress' them.

I agree that his most hardcore supporters will no doubt start banging the conspiracy/stolen election/voter fraud drum, but I'm (very) cautiously optimistic that the mass defection of GOP officials means that there's not going to be much of a chance that such claims will get much mainstream traction, the way I'm positive they would if we went into the election without all the rats abandoning ship. In other words, you can't go into November 8 with people like John McCain explicitly urging people not to vote for Trump, then emerge on November 9 to argue that Trump legitimately won the election but Clinton stole it.

That said, what they'll do to delegitimize her presidency is to take the position that the Deseret News editorial makes explicit: Should Clinton prevail in this presidential contest, we trust she — and those in the Congress that hold the presidency in check — will recognize that her likely victory against a self-wounded candidate is not a mandate for her specific platform, but rather a repudiation of Trump’s flaws. In other words: "yes, she won the election, but only because Trump was terrible, so we are obliged to obstruct her the same way we obstructed Obama."
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 1:31 PM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

I predict that Clinton is going to come off as sober and serious, and will eschew the Friar's Club zingers that some of you are so fondly dreaming of
posted by thelonius at 1:32 PM on October 9, 2016 [59 favorites]

To which downticket races would it be most strategic to donate at this point? I know McGinty's race is close but I don't know about many other races. It seems like a great time to capitalize on the GOP's meltdown.

PEC's ActBlue is based on the idea of contributing where it matters most.
posted by ctmf at 1:36 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

So Tim Pawlenty is not mincing words.

@JohnJHarwood
Tim Pawlenty on Trump: "unwilling/unable to demonstrate discipline/character/judgment. unsound/uninformed/unhinged/unfit. withdraw support"
posted by chris24 at 1:36 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

To which downticket races would it be most strategic to donate at this point?

DCCC/DSCC or PACs you like. Let them worry about strategy.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:40 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

> "To which downticket races would it be most strategic to donate at this point?"

For the Senate, definitely McGinty, Hassan, Cortez-Masto, Kander, and Ross -- all tossups. Murphy if you're feeling lucky even though he's always been down (most people think he's going to lose, but it's sometimes been tantalizingly close.) Bayh if you're worried about him even though he's always been up (most people think he's going to win, but a recent poll or two has been worrisome.)

I'm less knowledgable about the close House races.
posted by kyrademon at 1:40 PM on October 9, 2016

My guess as to the real significance of the N-word tape rumor: it's a threat to damage Trump's business interests. If that tape exists, and gets released, no corporation that cares about its public image will want to make a deal with Trump. That may be the only thing that could make him quit the race.
posted by in278s at 1:41 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

RE: the N-word Apprentice tape.

@BuzzFeedBen
"NEW: Burnett “is pro-Trump and has made clear to his teams that he will sue anyone who leaks"
https://www.buzzfeed.com/juliareinstein/apprentice-pressure

@HeerJeet
"If Burnett has tape of presidential candidate using racial slur but refuses to release, boycott of his company is in order."

I agree.
posted by chris24 at 1:42 PM on October 9, 2016 [19 favorites]

It's been a long couple of days full of so much delicious, choice schadenfreude and horrified laughter and just plain horror, so I'm not sure if this has been noted/linked before but: Trump's lightly plagiarized Facebook "apology."
posted by yasaman at 1:42 PM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

@JohnJHarwood
Tim Pawlenty on Trump: "unwilling/unable to demonstrate discipline/character/judgment. unsound/uninformed/unhinged/unfit. withdraw support"

Looks like Pawlenty selected "(E) All of the above" on the GOP Dump Trump multiple choice test.
posted by dersins at 1:43 PM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

For the record, jcreigh, I believe Broaddrick.
posted by KathrynT at 1:43 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

Is there any factual reason why I shouldn't believe that Bill Clinton raped Juanita Broaddrick in 1978 like she says?


No, there is not.
posted by The Noble Goofy Elk at 1:45 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Should Clinton prevail in this presidential contest, we trust she — and those in the Congress that hold the presidency in check — will recognize that her likely victory against a self-wounded candidate is not a mandate for her specific platform, but rather a repudiation of Trump’s flaws. In other words: "yes, she won the election, but only because Trump was terrible, so we are obliged to obstruct her the same way we obstructed Obama."

I didn't realize it would only take one day.
posted by rocket88 at 1:46 PM on October 9, 2016

Really bored of people's focus on the rumored n-word tape. It underscores the idea that there's no such thing as systemic racism, that it's all people's private thoughts and words. Trump's policies are more racist than any word.
posted by roll truck roll at 1:47 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

Is there any factual reason why I shouldn't believe that Bill Clinton raped Juanita Broaddrick in 1978 like she says?

Broaddrick seems credible. But I'm not sure what we do with that.
posted by dis_integration at 1:47 PM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

To which downticket races would it be most strategic to donate at this point?

fwiw, I just got an email from the Bernie Sanders campaign specifically urging support for Deborah Ross for Senate:

One race where we have a very good chance of winning a seat currently held by a Republican is in North Carolina's Senate race. But the Koch brothers know the stakes of this race too, and they know that they can't afford to lose a reliable vote that would stop Citizens United from being overturned. That's why the Koch brothers are spending millions of dollars to win that election.

Deborah Ross is the Democratic nominee for Senate in North Carolina. She is a strong progressive with whom I would be proud to serve in the U.S. Senate. She's not afraid to stand up to big polluters while moving us towards clean energy. She's fought for equal pay for women and good jobs for everyone. I know that Deborah Ross would make a fantastic member of the U.S. Senate -- one who would stand up for working families no matter what.

You better believe the Koch brothers don't like Deborah Ross very much.

In order to ensure that we win a progressive majority in the United States Senate, we must help Deborah Ross win in November.

posted by the return of the thin white sock at 1:47 PM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

I don't understand this line of reasoning that says that the GOP should have known that Trump was a walking dumpster fire that would take down the party, and that they should have done something to stop him from getting this far. Trump crushed everyone else in the primaries. I know there were failed efforts during the convention to nominate someone else, but how do you not nominate the candidate that had decisively won in both the delegate counts and the popular vote? Wouldn't that come off as completely undemocratic? So, yes, of course the real way to do it is to field a reasonable candidate, but everything seems to indicate that such a hypothetical candidate would have been decimated by crazy. And I could be wrong, but the party doesn't supply money to candidates during the primaries, so it's not like they could just refuse to fund Trump's primary and that that would have stopped his rise.

Suppose you could Quantum Leap into the GOP leadership circa early 2015, knowing everything you know now. What do you do to stop Trump? Does the GOP actively run negative Trump ads or leak this tape? Something else? Help me understand. Because from the way I see it, the voters are entirely to blame for this mess. (That's not to imply that I have any sympathy for the GOP leadership in general. I just don't understand how they're to blame in this specific instance. As far as I can tell they were well aware of his clownitude, they just didn't know how much that would resonate with deranged voters.)
posted by Rhomboid at 1:47 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Broaddrick seems credible. But I'm not sure what we do with that.

Yeah, I find Broaddrick's story totally credible, in that it absolutely fits with what we know about Bill Clinton--and even if it didn't, I'd be inclined to believe her anyway.

Where it gets implausible, though--at least for me--is her insistence that Hillary Clinton later shaking her hand and thanking her at a fundraising event was some kind of sinister threat to her life or livelihood or whatever.
posted by dersins at 1:50 PM on October 9, 2016 [57 favorites]

Broaddrick seems credible. But I'm not sure what we do with that.

DUH! Vote Trump
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 1:51 PM on October 9, 2016

Well, there is the tiny fact Broaddrick swore under oath that she was not raped. She may very well have been lying then and telling the truth now, but that's the thing about perjury: once you are willing to lie like that, it makes it hard to rely on anything you say being true.
posted by tavella at 1:51 PM on October 9, 2016 [21 favorites]

If I had a time machine, Jeb Bush could have used the $130 million he wasted to do opposition research on Trump and run ads with this stuff then. I'm not positive it would have worked, but had the other candidates all fought against Trump instead of competing to offer slightly less extreme versions of the same policies without the same bluster and swagger, they would have at least given it a fair try.

Heck, had Jeb! taken the money as cash and held a series of literal dumpster fire rallies around the country where he burnt the money and said "this is what Donald Trump is like," that would have been a more effective campaign tactic than whatever he tried.
posted by zachlipton at 1:52 PM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

Trump's policies are more racist than any word.

No one here disagrees with you, but much of the white electorate struggles to believe in systemic racism so this helps. Basically it removes plausible deniability that you didn't know he was a racist.
posted by chris24 at 1:53 PM on October 9, 2016 [11 favorites]

There's a great episode of Keeping it 1600 that features Republican political consultant Mike Murphy, who supported Jeb Bush during the primaries. He had some really great insider information on how the primaries went down. From his point of view, the 2016 primary was supposed to be a referendum on who would take over the Republican party between "true conservatives" - extreme right-wing religious people like Ted Cruz and the more moderate conservatives like Jeb Bush or Kasich. I don't remember the exact details, but he talks about how they were each focused on sort of carving out supremacy in their own niche, and didn't take Trump seriously enough until it was too late. He also talks about since they avoided having this referendum in 2016, it might be postponed to 2020 now (though I don't quite see Cruz having a great chance, but I'm sure there are other religious crazies who can take his place).
posted by peacheater at 1:54 PM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

I will pick a spouse who enabled a rapist over an actual rapist any day of the week.

This fucking year, man. This fucking year.

Almost as if we're forced to choose between the lesser of two evils...
posted by Kirth Gerson at 1:54 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

I don't understand this line of reasoning that says that the GOP should have known that Trump was a walking dumpster fire that would take down the party, and that they should have done something to stop him from getting this far.

The GOP establishment can't say they weren't warned about the current mess they're in with Trump. Here's a remarkably prescient post from the conservative blog Hot Air from May this year:

If a race realistically looks unwinnable by October, the national party may decide that the prudent thing to do is pull money out of it and apply it to other races that are more competitive. The RNC might be forced to choose circa October 10th whether to keep pumping money into Trump or to effectively concede the general election and use the money for a late push to save the Senate. They’re going to be hit with a “dolchstoss” narrative from hardcore Trumpers no matter what they do if he loses, but cutting him loose will make it much worse. Which means, no matter how much Reince may want to believe the GOP is building goodwill with Trump voters by being loyal soldiers for him, he’s kidding himself if Trump ends up losing. In a true worst-case scenario, in fact, I can imagine Trump down six points in late October and setting aside time at his rallies to attack the RNC — the entity running his ground game — for hanging him out to dry. You might read that and laugh at the idea that a presidential nominee would dump on his own national party apparatus in the home stretch of a national campaign. Let me remind you: There’s nothing that comes easier to Trump than dumping on Republicans, even when he has nothing to gain and something to lose by doing so.

And that was after Paul Manafort (remember him?) tried to squeeze the RNC for advertising cash in a sit-down just before Memorial Day: "'[Trump's] going to blame it on the RNC if he doesn't win in November,'" [a GOP] source said. "They're laying that groundwork now.'"
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:56 PM on October 9, 2016 [23 favorites]

> I predict that Clinton is going to come off as sober and serious, and will eschew the Friar's Club zingers that some of you are so fondly dreaming of

I actually don't think people really want/expect her to say the zingers, they're just being playful and imaginative, which is one of the things we do around here. I for one am enjoying them. Zingers help us stay sane during the Trumpocalypse.
posted by languagehat at 1:56 PM on October 9, 2016 [45 favorites]

Almost as if we're forced to choose between the lesser of two evils...

Or to choose between possible moral ambiguity and actual, overt evil.
posted by dersins at 1:56 PM on October 9, 2016 [29 favorites]

Suppose you could Quantum Leap into the GOP leadership circa early 2015, knowing everything you know now. What do you do to stop Trump? Does the GOP actively run negative Trump ads or leak this tape? Something else? Help me understand. Because from the way I see it, the voters are entirely to blame for this mess. (That's not to imply that I have any sympathy for the GOP leadership in general. I just don't understand how they're to blame in this specific instance. As far as I can tell they were well aware of his clownitude, they just didn't know how much that would resonate with deranged voters.)

Bluff.

"We've seen your tapes from Access Hollywood, Donald. We will play a Scorched Earth primary to stop you".
posted by Talez at 1:56 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Almost as if we're forced to choose between the lesser of two evils...

It didn't have to be this way... Sanders was a viable candidate this time last year.
posted by Coventry at 1:58 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

I don't understand this line of reasoning that says that the GOP should have known that Trump was a walking dumpster fire that would take down the party, and that they should have done something to stop him from getting this far. Trump crushed everyone else in the primaries. I know there were failed efforts during the convention to nominate someone else, but how do you not nominate the candidate that had decisively won in both the delegate counts and the popular vote? Wouldn't that come off as completely undemocratic?

A bunch of establishment guys (and Carly Fiorina) smelled blood in the water and though they could get a seat in the White House, no one wanted to get out until it was too late and the race was down to the fundamentalist Senator who was widely considered to be personally detestable to everyone who spent more than five seconds with him, and a white nationalist. They put party over country and personal gain over party. Yes, they could have stopped this if they'd cared to.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:58 PM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

much of the white electorate struggles to believe in systemic racism

Not only a lot of white people not believe in systemic racism, they also don't think that anything other than overt, white-sheets-and-pointy-hoods-and-burning-crosses-and-Confederate-flags-and-"n-word"-spewing redneck caricature is "racist"--these are people who talk about "welfare queens" and "a culture of dependence" and "we don't have a gun problem, we have a gang problem" and "personal responsibility", but "I'm not a racist, some of my best friends are black!" and they'd be very shocked and offended to hear someone say "nigger" in their presence. These sort of people are a lot more numerous (and a lot more insidious) than more-overt racists, really. (But they might also distance themselves from a Trump shown to be overtly and undeniably racist-with-a-capital-R, because while some opinions are acceptable, saying "nigger" isn't).
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 1:58 PM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

Is there any factual reason why I shouldn't believe that Bill Clinton raped Juanita Broaddrick in 1978 like she says?

The case is just really difficult. The correct, ally inclination is to believe her, right? But unfortunately she swore in an affidavit that it never happened then walked that statement back. I once did something very similar, deciding that testifying at a trial was not something I was constitutionally capable of at 16 years old. But I realized at the time, even at that young age, that retracting a statement meant that I could be sad and angry but it also meant that I had forever abdicated the right to legal repercussions for the people concerned. It didn't make my abusers less guilty, but without the benefit of a court case to litigate the issue, I don't feel like I have much room to talk about them. Ms. Broaddrick had made a different choice, which is her prerogative. I have bucketfuls of empathy for her, having been there myself, but I just can't hold Hillary responsible for the alleged actions of her husband. I would feel differently if there had been litigation that favored Broaddrick and HRC still stuck by him.
posted by xyzzy at 1:59 PM on October 9, 2016 [67 favorites]

Somebody in the background of Jake Tapper's show is holding a sign that reads HILLARY EATS PIZZA WITH A FORK

Trump supporters really should NOT try going down that road, either.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:59 PM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

The Republicans bemoaning how no one is untainted are ridiculous, and saying what they wish was true. Mike Lee is untainted. Ben Sasse, of "I'm busy touring dumpster fires with my daughter" fame is untainted. There are Republicans who said from the beginning he was a fucker. Because you came late to the party doesn't mean no one else came early.
posted by corb at 1:59 PM on October 9, 2016 [12 favorites]

I do a lot of things with the horror I feel at Broaddrick's rape - it compels me to speak back when people make violently misogynistic remarks in front of me (which happened a lot recently with Kim Kardashian's robbery and "she deserved it"); it makes fresh and helps me better access how horrific it is that some of our founding fathers were rapists; it tells me to go easier on myself when I'm feeling like sexism won again, that I'm up against something way bigger than me; it encourages me when I think about how far we seem to have come; it reminds me how pervasive rape and sexual assault are.

What I don't do with it is blame the rapist's partner.
posted by sallybrown at 1:59 PM on October 9, 2016 [37 favorites]

It didn't have to be this way... Sanders was a viable candidate this time last year.

DRTP.
posted by Talez at 2:00 PM on October 9, 2016 [28 favorites]

So for those of you struggling with Trump supporting relatives, and as a cold harsh bucket of reality about how immovable the base is (who will still be around and among us on November 9, either way), a depressing read from an OB/GYN sexual assault survivor who unsuccessfully tries to talk her dad into withdrawing support from Trump after the Access Hollywood videos:

I share this exchange not to put my father in a bad light, but rather to tell a story about how many Americans interpret Trump’s misogyny. My father is a well-educated, loving man who would do anything for his family, except maybe look beyond what is staring us in the face as a nation: that women don’t matter as much as men....my conversation with my father has convinced me that even many people who have witnessed sexual assault firsthand believe so strongly in Trump’s phony message of change that they will overlook his avalanche of misogyny and hate.
posted by blue suede stockings at 2:02 PM on October 9, 2016 [8 favorites]

What's DRTP?
posted by Coventry at 2:03 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Where it gets implausible, though--at least for me--is her insistence that Hillary Clinton later shaking her hand and thanking her at a fundraising event was some kind of sinister threat to her life or livelihood or whatever.

I have PTSD from rape and this is exactly the kind of symptom I have - everything "means something" in a totally delusional way when I'm deep in the shit, stressed or triggered or whatnot.

Having been an adult during the era, and having 'met' (as far as one does at a FLOTUS event) her I do not think that Bill's crimes were known to Hillary and I believe she still thinks it's all a lie. Which, yeah, people put up with crap from their husbands that they shouldn't. I always wanted her to be the kind of bad ass that divorced a sitting president.
posted by The Noble Goofy Elk at 2:03 PM on October 9, 2016 [11 favorites]

What's DRTP?

Don't Relitigate The Primaries.
posted by Talez at 2:03 PM on October 9, 2016 [15 favorites]

Mod note: It seems like we've gone around Clinton/Broaddrick several times and can move the conversation on from that; if you still have questions or comments to make, ctrl-F and read earlier comments in the thread to make sure they haven't already been discussed.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 2:06 PM on October 9, 2016 [8 favorites]

Clinton Ally Offers To Pay Legal Fees For “Apprentice” Leakers
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:06 PM on October 9, 2016 [11 favorites]

The Broadrick allegations are essentially a he said, she said situation. Furthermore it's largely tainted by her own deposition during the Paula Jones lawsuit in which she denied any sexual assault took place. So like others have said either she was lying then or lying now which doesn't inspire a lot of confidence.

I think the fact that the special prosecutor decided against pursuing any sort of allegations related to Broadrick during the Lewinsky saga also tends to diminish the impact of the claims. On the other hand there might be reason to believe that Broadrick is telling the truth and the special prosecutor felt there was no reasonable way to pursue a case against Clinton.

So basically where you stand on the case tends to be whether you believe Broadrick's allegations are accurate despite being contradicted by her own testimony or whether you believe that it is just another in a long line of unproven claims about the malfeasance of the Clintons. A lot really depends on your political leanings one way or another.

Regardless of what you choose to believe in regards to the allegations against Bill the claims against Hillary Clinton seem to largely be built on guilt by association.
posted by vuron at 2:09 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

I would like to believe that Clinton isn't capable of letting Trump continue as the nominee, letting racism rise in this country for four months, just so that she can have a candidate she's certain of defeating.

I don't know why that'd be a shock. The Clinton campaign and DNC most definitely did encourage the press to elevate the chances of Trump, Cruz and Carson, all along, asking them to treat them as serious candidates, specifically because they were the worst candidates and would be the easiest to defeat. (It's all over the recent e-mail leaks, especially the 'pied-piper candidates' ones. They worked to make it more likely a weak, awful candidate would win the nomination.)

But, like... so what? Why wouldn't she want the weakest possible opponent or the best chance at victory? This is how sausage gets made.

Okay, it might seem cutthroat and awful on an emotional level, but strategically? It's exactly right, and that's how politics gets done here, now. I wouldn't expect any less from any political machinery, especially one as capable and powerful as this one. It's how elections are won.
posted by rokusan at 2:11 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Fahrenthold helpfully points out the secure dropbox on the main WP page. Just in case someone wants to send him something.
posted by octothorpe at 2:12 PM on October 9, 2016 [39 favorites]

It's also not Hillary Clinton's fault that Donald Trump and the many Republicans who've enabled and joined up with him are perpetuating disgustingly racist and xenophobic policy. That is on them.
posted by sallybrown at 2:14 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

But, like... so what? Why wouldn't she want the weakest possible opponent or the best chance at victory? This is how sausage gets made.

Remember the Todd Akin masterstroke?
posted by Talez at 2:14 PM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

I know there were failed efforts during the convention to nominate someone else, but how do you not nominate the candidate that had decisively won in both the delegate counts and the popular vote?

They could have dug up some of the stuff that Clinton is bringing up now.
posted by dilaudid at 2:16 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

I think a big reason Burnett would stop leaks from the Apprentice is to protect his own hide. If he's been comfortably supporting a racist asshole who assaults women, it makes him look pretty bad. Of course, he is protecting said asshole, and he should look bad. It reminds me of how people knew about Cosby or Saville, but never did or said anything, or denied everything. Burnett knew Trump was a terrible human being, but Trump was a means to make money. And it allowed Trump to further entrench himself in pop culture as 'the rich, successful business man', which turned out to be a big lie.

Similarly, I think most members of the GOP knew Birtherism was a racist lie, but how many of them publicly denounced it? It was a convenient lie, because delegitimizing our first black president would allow them to obstruct everything in Congress, and the base would see that as justified. They let Birthers exist for their own cynical reasons, but its bitten them in the ass this election, as they didn't understand how much of their base that lie appealed to, and led to Trump getting the nomination. Trump's gotten where he is because of these cynical people allowing him to get away with his lies.

I will say, as a Wisconsinite whose seen Republicans fuck up our state for the past few years, seeing Reince Priebus and Paul Ryan completely fail to steer the USS Trumptanic away from the iceberg has lead to some intense schadenfreude. A few months ago I had been worried that Ryan would somehow come out of this mess unscathed, and be the probable frontrunner for 2020, but he seems so pathetic and ineffectual now its amazing.
posted by airish at 2:18 PM on October 9, 2016 [13 favorites]

I want to send him a file named Trump-Apprentice-Slurs.pt1 which contains a seriously encrypted video of Rick Astley's "Never gonna give you up" but I will refrain. Barely.
posted by Justinian at 2:18 PM on October 9, 2016 [22 favorites]

Obama getting in Trump's head before the debate:

"President Barack Obama said Sunday that Donald Trump's lewd and sexually aggressive comments about women he made a decade ago were "disturbing" examples of "unbelievable rhetoric."

"One of the most disturbing things about this election is just the unbelievable rhetoric coming at the top of the Republican ticket," Obama said at a campaign event in Chicago for US Senate candidate Tammy Duckworth. "I don't need to repeat it. There are children in the room."

"Obama continued, "Demeaning women, degrading women -- but also minorities. Immigrants. People of other faiths. Mocking the disabled. Insulting our troops, Insulting our veterans. That tells you a couple of things: It tells you that he's insecure enough that he pumps himself up by putting other people down. Not a character trait that I would advise for somebody in the Oval Office."

"Obama also said the comments suggest Trump "doesn't care much about the basic values. It tells you that he'd be careless with the civility and the respect that a real vibrant democracy requires," Obama said."
posted by chris24 at 2:18 PM on October 9, 2016 [59 favorites]

I want to send him a file named Trump-Apprentice-Slurs.pt1 which contains a seriously encrypted video of Rick Astley's "Never gonna give you up" but I will refrain. Barely.

He's no longer opening unsolicited videos because some deplorable person, knowing he has epilepsy, sent him a video that can induce seizures. [real]
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:23 PM on October 9, 2016 [26 favorites]

I think someone is holding up a big cutout of Pope Francis in the background of the CNN crowd shot. Haha.
posted by sallybrown at 2:24 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

"Please proceed, predator."
posted by tonycpsu at 2:25 PM on October 9, 2016 [8 favorites]

Lewandowski melting down on CNN because Erin Burnett asked him what he had to say about her friend who was kissed against her will by Trump, after being offered a tic tac.
posted by sallybrown at 2:26 PM on October 9, 2016 [11 favorites]

It didn't have to be this way... Sanders was a viable candidate this time last year.

I would have voted for him in June, but his candidacy had fizzled by then.

Such is democracy in this 'nation of children'.

Actually you've got to search far and wide for longstanding competent democratic governance.

Norway & Sweden, maybe Denmark and the Netherlands, maybe Germany, then France, but the competency here tails off pretty quick after the first group, and they're not perfect by any means.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 2:27 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Sam Wang's Bayesian probability is back up to 95%. The JCPL is currently on break drinking margaritas on a beach in Cabo.
posted by Justinian at 2:28 PM on October 9, 2016 [57 favorites]

Hm. Democratic competency intersects with colder climates, then?
posted by rokusan at 2:29 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

There's a great episode of Keeping it 1600 that features Republican political consultant Mike Murphy, who supported Jeb Bush during the primaries

Murphy has his own podcast, Radio Free GOP, that is also worth listening to. Lots of war stories from R and D consultants.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:29 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Really? My SCPL is baseline preeetty good, but has some high-volatility pre-debate jitters. She's got this - I know she does - but I'm not looking forward to how nasty Trump is likely to get.

He has nothing left to lose.
posted by stolyarova at 2:30 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Friend, the JCPL can definitely be put back under glass until 2018, at least.

This is so over it's beyond over. Find your margarita bliss and enjoy it.
posted by rokusan at 2:30 PM on October 9, 2016

Bill may have been a rapey shit, but he gave us Justice Ginsberg, new laws to punish violence against women, stronger regulations against workplace discrimination, child and family leave and a multitude of things that Donald Trump would role back. Lincoln was a racist, but he emancipated the slaves. Johnson was a racist and misogynist who liked to drop his pants and show off his dick. Yet that same Johnson included women in the Civil Rights Act. Bill Clinton has serious character flaws, but he made the world safer be better for women overall. He has acknowledged, been impeached and done community service to atone for his sins. Maybe it isn't enough, maybe it can never be enough. What has Donald Trump done? What will he do? How will his election help the millions of victims not named in a Clinton scandal sheet? The answer is he won't. He'll try to roll back all the protections. Trump has done nothing, but bully women and he's learned nothing from this latest incident.
posted by humanfont at 2:30 PM on October 9, 2016 [75 favorites]

He's no longer opening unsolicited videos because some deplorable person, knowing he has epilepsy, sent him a video that can induce seizures. [real]

Is it normal for my vomit to vomit?
posted by delfin at 2:32 PM on October 9, 2016 [25 favorites]

Sam Wang's Bayesian probability is back up to 95%. The JCPL is currently on break drinking margaritas on a beach in Cabo.

My Jalli CPL is doing the opposite. The higher it goes I have a brief time of 'yay' and then I fall into 'it's too good to be true' time and there is going to be some horrible twist because that's how stories work these days.

I'e decided I've watched too much tv and movies.
posted by Jalliah at 2:32 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Hm. Democratic competency intersects with colder climates, then?

Let's not. There is a long history of this sort of thinking devolving into "those hot-blooded, darker-skinned tropical people just can't do democracy!"
posted by chainsofreedom at 2:32 PM on October 9, 2016 [17 favorites]

Just donated another $19 to Clinton because Jess asked me. By the way, is Jess a real person?
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:33 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Tim Pawlenty on Trump: "unwilling/unable to demonstrate discipline/character/judgment. unsound/uninformed/unhinged/unfit. withdraw support"

I never thought Tim Pawlenty would be able to gain my respect and ... I still don't.

AC+ for effort, though.
posted by ckape at 2:33 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

By the way, is Jess a real person?

Hey, it's Jess.
posted by dersins at 2:34 PM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

Suppose you could Quantum Leap into the GOP leadership circa early 2015, knowing everything you know now. What do you do to stop Trump? Does the GOP actively run negative Trump ads or leak this tape? Something else?

The usual answer is that some critical number of GOPers and affiliated people -- actual RNC people, skilled GOP strategists and fundraisers, governors, habitual large donors, etc -- could have sucked it up and picked Cruz, or Kasich, or whoever as their favored son. And then that person would have had a bunch of resources they didn't, including the skills of skilled election managers and the funds to go do skilled stuff with.

But this would have required actually coordinating on someone, and they seemed desperately unwilling to do that.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:35 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Jess is Jess Morales Rocketto (and her team, presumably)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:37 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Tennessee Governor Bill Haslam joins the cavalcade of people dumping Trump and calling for him to step down.
posted by chris24 at 2:37 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

My JCPL is trying very hard to not tempt the wrath of the whatever from high atop the thing right now. It's not over yet, and there's plenty of time for more ugliness. And Trump supporters and what they stood for aren't going away. The fact that his high water mark could ever have been above 40% means that my JCPL is always going to be that much higher.
posted by zachlipton at 2:37 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Tim Pawlenty on Trump: "unwilling/unable to demonstrate discipline/character/judgment. unsound/uninformed/unhinged/unfit. withdraw support"

Another gem from the Tim Pawlenty school of annyoing alliteration!
posted by sour cream at 2:37 PM on October 9, 2016

Another gem from the Tim Pawlenty school of annyoing alliteration!

It's an Academy.
posted by tclark at 2:38 PM on October 9, 2016 [77 favorites]

...That tells you a couple of things: It tells you that he's insecure enough that he pumps himself up by putting other people down.

He is the stick figure drawing of.the photographic illustration for the textbook example of making oneself right by making the other person wrong.

What I can't believe is the repeated cliche of how this particular election is a race to the.bottom. But a race involves at least two individuals moving in the.same.direction. One crash diving by himself is no race.
posted by y2karl at 2:38 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Let's not. There is a long history of this sort of thinking devolving into "those hot-blooded, darker-skinned tropical people just can't do democracy!"

Yes, that's what I was lampshading. Perhaps I didn't arch my eyebrow enough.
posted by rokusan at 2:40 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Somehow I got on the Trump email list. Yesterday, Eric sent a fundraising email saying that if I donated, I would be put on a list that he would show his dad before the debate. I thought that was a weird fundraising spiel, like DJT would even take the time to look at a list of names before a nationally televised debate.

I got a fundraising email this morning from Donald saying that he did not see my name on the list! He has the power of Santa Claus! I've been naughty!
posted by perhapses at 2:42 PM on October 9, 2016 [26 favorites]

Surprising (not).

@Taniel
"New defections: 42% of GOP women serving as governor or in Congress have stated they're not supporting Trump. Just 15% of the men have."
posted by chris24 at 2:42 PM on October 9, 2016 [16 favorites]

guys

if you're not Justinian yourself it's not the JCPL

it's the *CPL

/pedant
posted by stolyarova at 2:42 PM on October 9, 2016 [15 favorites]

Tim Pawlenty on Trump: "unwilling/unable to demonstrate discipline... unsound/uninformed/unhinged/unfit."

Outgunned... outmanned... outnumbered....
posted by rokusan at 2:43 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

But like the Dow, the JCPL is the gold standard of *CPLs.
posted by chris24 at 2:43 PM on October 9, 2016 [21 favorites]

I'm still not a fan of his, but the Republican I've come around on a bit is Graham. Don't agree with him on 90% of reality but he's maybe one of five politicians on my "I really would want to have a beer with" list. I'd never vote for him but I think listening to him talk about inside politics would be amazing.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:44 PM on October 9, 2016 [8 favorites]

Hey, it's Jess.

I get regular texts from a handful of people. My wife, my kids, my Mom....and Jess.

And occasional texts from Hillary, Tim, Barack, and Joe.
posted by zakur at 2:45 PM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

I wonder if the Jeffrey Epstein/Jane Doe child rape suit will eventually be seen as another case of Cosby or Saville phenomena: horrid accusations against powerful men that somehow just get swept under the rug. An awful lot of cases of rape do largely come down to he-said/she-said, especially if people are too afraid to take the first step of investigating them further. I think in all these cases there is a certain squeamishness about talking frankly, and that there are echoes of that in people trying to equate Trump's comments as "locker room talk" or about mere infidelity. Come to think of it, the only guy I ever knew to make comments even kind of like Trump's was also a rapist.

But in the accusations against Trump of raping a 13-year-old and threatening her family, there is actually a corroborator "Tiffany Doe" who was older and claims she was hired by Epstein to procure children for him and his guests. It's really weird to me that the story doesn't get more notice.
posted by callistus at 2:46 PM on October 9, 2016 [17 favorites]

I've pegged our local currency to the JCPL, so it's easier for me to just use it.
posted by kyrademon at 2:46 PM on October 9, 2016 [27 favorites]

But like the Dow, the JCPL is the gold standard of CPLs.

ITYM like the gold standard.

On the other hand, the gold standard is a terrible idea.
posted by dersins at 2:46 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Somehow I got on the Trump email list.

Same here. Weird. I wonder if Putin's gangsters gave his people mailing lists from their data hacks.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 2:46 PM on October 9, 2016

Is this the point in the thread where we all stand up and say "I am Justinian?"
posted by zachlipton at 2:46 PM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

XCPL seems too much like a made up scrabble word my brother would put on the triple word space. JCPL sounds like cool space stuff.
posted by xyzzy at 2:46 PM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

Lewandowski melting down on CNN because Erin Burnett asked him what he had to say about her friend who was kissed against her will by Trump, after being offered a tic tac.

John King talking about "throwing a kid who says those things in a locker room up against the wall" was also delicious.
posted by Talez at 2:47 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Almost as if we're forced to choose between the lesser of two evils...

This kind of talk only makes sense if one of the most breathtakingly liberal Dem platforms in at least 50ish years is a lesser evil.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:47 PM on October 9, 2016 [28 favorites]

I'm still not a fan of his, but the Republican I've come around on a bit is Graham.

I knew things were going to be bad really early on when he sounded like the sanest Republican candidate.
posted by LionIndex at 2:47 PM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

but it's not YOUR Justinian Current Panic Level unless you're Justinian
posted by stolyarova at 2:48 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

I've thought about taking a stand on the coöption of the term 'JCPL' but I think it's entered into common usage, like Xerox and Kleenex.

tivaCPL has a decent ring to it, though I have pretty steely nerves and/or am to lazy to panic often so reporting on it would be pretty boring.
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:48 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

Michael Moore wants credit for Trump's downfall, because he wrote a generally derided (or perhaps widely ignored) blog post or something.
posted by zachlipton at 2:48 PM on October 9, 2016

Graham is a bit too prone to vapors about e.g. Iran, but I generally think of him as "okay for a Republican". The only Republican senator I might actually vote for -- not that there's really any risk of that -- is Jeff Flake.
posted by Slothrup at 2:50 PM on October 9, 2016

Every time I see _CPL I assume it must mean ______ County Public Library.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 2:50 PM on October 9, 2016 [17 favorites]

Is this the point in the thread where we all stand up and say "I am Justinian?"

#jesuisjustinian
posted by Talez at 2:50 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Hey guys I just realized I have an impossibly naive and stupid question about how our electoral process works.

Up until this year, I assumed that, in order to throw your hat in the ring for a place on your party's slate of candidates, you had to show some kind of bonafides to party leadership that you didn't have any glaring skeletons in your closet. Or at least that people from your party would probably google you, and would have some degree of choice in whether they wanted you on the ticket or not.

But suddenly all these Republicans are like "ITS HILLARY'S FAULT FOR NOT SINGLEHANDEDLY MAKING TRUMP NOT RUN!" and I'm no longer sure that Trump didn't have the power to just run for President as a Republican and let the voters decide. Who vets candidates, when does it happen, and how much say does the party have on who they want running in their primaries?

Obviously the superdelegates make this easier from the DNC perspective, but for real, I have always assumed that if someone has entered the primary race in one of the major parties, the party apparatus in general approves of them doing so.

Is that not the case?
posted by Sara C. at 2:50 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Let's please have some pity on the mods and Tehhund and cool it with this derail?

But for the record I agree and call it "JCPL", not "JCPL"
posted by J.K. Seazer at 2:51 PM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

Early on, I mentioned to a friend how much I was learning about the Republican Party. Not Trump -- we all knew early on about Trump. Nothing Trump has done has surprised me; it is all completely in character and predictable.

But it was really interesting during the primaries to watch the Republicans fall along their respective lines. And really, really weird to feel the slightest respect for Lindsey Graham.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 2:51 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

That is indeed not the case.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:51 PM on October 9, 2016

Michael Moore

Didn't he do a whole handwringing bit about how Clinton was definitely going to lose sometime during the primaries? His punditry skills are about as reliable as his documentaries -- which is to say, well intentioned but kind of crap.
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:52 PM on October 9, 2016 [8 favorites]

So I just want to put it out there that it wouldn't be a terrible thing if we had a new FPP for tonight's debate, since this one is already maxing out my happiness in both Chome and phone. I don't know how that works--is this allowed?
posted by blue suede stockings at 2:52 PM on October 9, 2016

The new FPP is coming an hour before the debate.
posted by stolyarova at 2:53 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

I just have a Long-Interval Overall Nervousness Index that includes multiple factors, including current panic level.
posted by LionIndex at 2:54 PM on October 9, 2016 [23 favorites]

Somehow I got on the Trump email list.

I'm curious, did the email address you as "friend"? This is evidently what the Trump campaign uses for the "first name" field when they have an email address but nothing else. In the podcast Election Profit Makers, there is a great segment where David Rees discussed the ramifications of this.
posted by compartment at 2:55 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Who vets candidates, when does it happen, and how much say does the party have on who they want running in their primaries?

Pretty much the only say the party organization has about who runs in its primaries is that they can file civil suit to keep someone from running as an X and try to convince a judge that their positions are so far removed from what X believes that the judge should issue the appropriate decree.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:57 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

His punditry skills are about as reliable as his documentaries -- which is to say, well intentioned but kind of crap.

Based on what I've heard from people who've worked for Moore, you may be giving him quite a bit more credit for good intentions than is warranted.
posted by dersins at 2:58 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

and am afraid of some ominous twist.

Trump has gotten this far by saying outrageous things when he's getting slammed for the last outrageous thing he said. So my guess is tonight he skips past anything he's referenced thus far, and says some outlandish mess the public (including us) is largely unfamiliar with. I guess the challenge for him will be if Anderson Cooper knows about whatever it is, and can debunk it live on air, rather than let Trump be allowed to let it just hang around through and after the debate.

I hope I am wrong.
posted by cashman at 2:58 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Today, my fellow Americans, we are all Justinian.
posted by rokusan at 2:59 PM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

Vice news: Alt-right trolls are arguing over genetic tests they think “prove” their whiteness

Once you can compartmentalize the horror of their thinking, it's pretty hilarious to see their hand wringing over whether a small percentage of Slavic/Spanish/Finnish blood disqualifies them.
posted by Tarumba at 2:59 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Oh god. I went to more broad fights about this and had to retreat back here. Apparently one of the new Trumpist positions is "Republican leadership/the liberal media is just trying to trick you by saying this is about your sisters and mothers and wives! It's just about those (insert slutshaming here) Hollywood women! Not like real women at all!"

I am so full of rage I think I might just actually explode.
posted by corb at 2:59 PM on October 9, 2016 [35 favorites]

So my guess is tonight he skips past anything he's referenced thus far, and says some outlandish mess the public (including us) is largely unfamiliar with.

I kind of feel like we should start a betting pool on what direction this goes.
posted by jferg at 3:00 PM on October 9, 2016

I am trying to figure out how far away from the debate I have to be to keep my personal panic level from rising. Like, can I be in the next room, but still able to hear it? Or do I have to be on a different floor entirely? Maybe if I stick my head in the freezer with the ice cream I can stand it.
posted by Biblio at 3:00 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

Moore did a "Why Trump Will Win"-styled piece that got a lot of attention, though of course it was really just another of the umpteen Please Panic and Get Behind Clinton NOW routines that we've been flooded/insulted with this election.

We get it, already. No Trump. Not gonna happen. Crisis averted. Now back off, please.
posted by rokusan at 3:01 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

From about 1890 to 1920 or so, Progressive reforms led to the modern system of primaries, getting rid of the smoke-filled back rooms of big-wigs making decisions about the party list. By the end of WWI about half of states had direct primaries rather than party leader decisions. By 1970 the system was substantively what we have today.

If nothing else, reading the history is instructive on how every system will be gamed and reform (or at least the attention to reform's possibilities) has to be a fairly constant activity. You have to keep weeding that democratic garden of its tendencies to corruption. Scrape the barnacles off the ship of state. Whatever metaphor you like.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 3:02 PM on October 9, 2016 [22 favorites]

Up until this year, I assumed that, in order to throw your hat in the ring for a place on your party's slate of candidates, you had to show some kind of bonafides to party leadership that you didn't have any glaring skeletons in your closet. Or at least that people from your party would probably google you, and would have some degree of choice in whether they wanted you on the ticket or not.

To some degree, yes, but generally by "bonafides" they mean "money".

Colbert had originally planned to run for both the Republican and the Democratic nomination in his home state of South Carolina. After learning that the fee to file for the Republican primary was $35,000, he abandoned plans to run as a Republican (he had previously stated that he could avoid FEC rules if he stayed under $5,000 in campaign expenditure). Although he paid the $2,500 fee to be included in the South Carolina Democratic ballot, he was denied a place on the ballot by the South Carolina Democratic Party executive council. On November 5, 2007, Colbert officially dropped his presidential bid.

posted by ckape at 3:03 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

but for real, I have always assumed that if someone has entered the primary race in one of the major parties, the party apparatus in general approves of them doing so.

Is that not the case?

Not in my state. To get on a primary ballot, you need to get a certain number of signatures from eligible voters. You also need to meet some baseline qualifications, like being eligible to vote in the state and, if it's a local position, the locality in which you're running, and I think you need to be a member of the party. (This was an issue with Bernie, who wasn't previously a Democrat.) And that's it.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:04 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Once you can compartmentalize the horror of their thinking, it's pretty hilarious to see their hand wringing over whether a small percentage of Slavic/Spanish/Finnish blood disqualifies them.

Quick someone explain to them how all humans came out of Africa

and how all Europeans came from the Middle East and central Asia

and how they're idiots, is really what I mean to say.

Also, your daily reminder that the alt-right does not exist, call them the white supremacists they are.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:05 PM on October 9, 2016 [17 favorites]

Mormons are by and large sincere, not strategic voters....

I think I know what you're getting at, but that also strikes me as almost a meaningless distinction.

Is a vote for the person who I feel is most likely to actually make some positive progress (or at least impede negative progress) really less sincere than a vote for a theoretically more closely aligned candidate who won't win and, if anything, makes things worse by making the worst possible outcome more likely?

So if there is a significant difference, it strikes me that "sincere" voters aren't thinking things through.

Or maybe it's just a luxury that I don't think a lot of voters have.
posted by ghost phoneme at 3:06 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Well, sure, I have no doubt the Clinton team is capable of some serious dirty, nasty, crooked shit if necessary. It's not like they're not above it. For god's sake, James Carville is still running on a beeping backup battery over there.

But they aren't doing any of that now, and won't need to, because this is freaking Donald Trump, here, the king of the self-inflicted wound. It would be like a football team cheating with a 50-point lead.

There is unprecedented noise and distraction this month, sure, but if you get past the smoke she is still running unopposed.

She could sit quietly and knit for 90 minutes and still win 45 states.
posted by rokusan at 3:07 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Michael Moore was declaring Trump the winner of the debate last week, the one everyone agreed he got crushed in.
posted by gerryblog at 3:07 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

So there's no point at which the Republican upper level types realized Trump wasn't going to release his tax returns (or the blatant imminent trainwreck of your choice) and could have put the kibosh on the whole thing? That's fucking terrifying.
posted by Sara C. at 3:08 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Oh god. I went to more broad fights about this...

I had to back up and reparse that. All this Donald-speak is getting to me.
posted by rokusan at 3:09 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Or to choose between possible moral ambiguity and actual, overt evil.

This is the scary thing for me - to the core supporters Trump is the merely morally ambiguous with Clinton being the overt evil. Reading Palin's facebook nonsense earlier today made me ditch the commentary and take to half a season of Ru Paul's drag race just to wash the dread from my brain. Partisan loyalty doesn't explain it, it feels like such wilful ignorance being so vociferous and public is evidence of something much darker brewing that goes way beyond the outcome of this year's election.
posted by freya_lamb at 3:09 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

I really wish I could fast-forward about three hours. This seems likely to be the strangest televised event in American history, and the suspense is killing me.
(Side note: is it too late to start manufacturing red trucker caps with "GRAB AMERICA BY THE ***** AGAIN" on them?)
posted by uosuaq at 3:10 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

I think you have just talked yourself into the argument for superdelegates, Sara C.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:10 PM on October 9, 2016 [12 favorites]

i didn't realize how serious they were. there's schematics and everything. i like drawing up ideas of fancy futuristic sci fi stuff too.

Ooooh this is definitely my new favorite conspiracy theory. Many people are saying #MirrorOrProjectionSurfaceGate will become a thing.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:11 PM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

um yeah it's always too late to profit from rape culture
posted by poffin boffin at 3:11 PM on October 9, 2016 [34 favorites]

Oh, is *that* what I was trying to do? Dang.
posted by uosuaq at 3:13 PM on October 9, 2016

Arbitrary, I've always been pro superdelegate. Even in 2008 when it looked like they were going to hand down the nomination to Clinton from on high, and I was an Obama supporter.
posted by Sara C. at 3:14 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

You have to keep weeding that democratic garden of its tendencies to corruption. Scrape the barnacles off the ship of state. Whatever metaphor you like.

I vote for 'shaving the neckbeard of the republic'
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:14 PM on October 9, 2016 [11 favorites]

Once you can compartmentalize the horror of their thinking, it's pretty hilarious to see their hand wringing over whether a small percentage of Slavic/Spanish/Finnish blood disqualifies them.


Trick question. Finns don't have blood, they have alcohol.
posted by delfin at 3:14 PM on October 9, 2016 [15 favorites]

Michael Moore was declaring Trump the winner of the debate last week, the one everyone agreed he got crushed in.

Well, the narrative he was pushing this summer is that we were all doomed with HRC and Trump was going to win. Apparently back-pedaling from that doesn't suit him.
posted by Ber at 3:16 PM on October 9, 2016

I'm in a cafe in downtown LA with virtually no wifi or signal because, unbeknownst to me, the perennial East Coaster, LA is a savage beast town.

(I say this fondly and actually have really loved my weekend here. It's like a giant Jersey boardwalk! I love Jersey boardwalks.)

Anyway. A new thread would be great, 'sall I'm saying.
posted by rorgy at 3:16 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

When we say something like "Trump voters want a strongman to protect the way of life (privilege) that they think they're losing" there's something to keep in mind:

These people are quite right in thinking that they're losing status as the world changes. That's kind of the whole point of undoing privilege.

People like to say "We're not trying to take down men, we just want equality for women," but the truth is, it's both. The overvaluing of men's labor; the lower standards of humanity that they're held to; the wealth that was generated by slavery; the de facto right to assault people with impunity - these are things no one should have at all. We're not trying to extend those privileges to marginalized people.

One of those privileges being destroyed is ... a sort of psychological privilege of confidence and self-assurance, of knowing oneself to be superior. I think that's actually the loss that people feel most acutely. I think that's how racism also gets tangled up in the anti-intellectual "east coast liberals think they're better than me" resentment. That's what makes it feel like a personal attack.

This essay is a little milquetoast for me but it has some good metaphors in it and is ultimately correct. Point is: the fear is not insensible or entirely wrong. They are losing status. Like the coal miners, their way of life is under attack - because it fucking should be.

Not that this is immediately relevant, it's just something I've been trying to articulate for a while.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 3:16 PM on October 9, 2016 [23 favorites]

Interesting post on kottke.org about the NYT using Trump's profanity, which is counter to its policy, and how that policy has a discriminatory effect generally.
posted by Etrigan at 3:18 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

rorgy, I believe we'll have a new thread shortly before the...let's call it a debate...in a little over two hours.
posted by uosuaq at 3:19 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Metafilter: A little milquetoast for me but it has some good metaphors in it and is ultimately correct.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 3:20 PM on October 9, 2016 [14 favorites]

Returning to the question upthread of close House races: here are the Cook Report ratings as of Oct. 4 (i.e., a few days before the hot mic tape was released), showing 17 toss-ups.
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 3:20 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Can't help thinking Trump's supporters should now be referred to as the new Donner Party.
posted by effluvia at 3:22 PM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

The debate is coming right up. My prediction: Hillary Clinton will be consummately gracious, will talk about her values, will talk about respect for all people. She will make skillful allusions to what an absolute turd Donald is. I cannot wait to see what sly jabs she shivs in between his ribs as he clumsily attacks. She will work hard to not obviously gloat. We, at home, will gloat for her.

I have bloody Marys planned for this evening. Just seemed right. Wish I'd waited to buy the fixings, the cost of the tears of my enemies is plummeting due to oversupply.
posted by theora55 at 3:25 PM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

Don't forget to use the MetaFilter Classic theme which is totes the only theme.

MetaFilter Classiiiiiiiiiic!!
posted by petebest at 3:32 PM on October 9, 2016 [16 favorites]

@LOLGOP made a good point on Twitter regarding Tenn governor calling for Trump to step aside for Pence.

"The little shiv of "for Mike Pence" is why Trump make sure his running mate won't survive this race."

Many of the other unendorsers have done the same, and it pretty much guarantees Trump will go to war with his own VP at some point.
posted by chris24 at 3:32 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

I'm curious, did the email address you as "friend"? This is evidently what the Trump campaign uses for the "first name" field when they have an email address but nothing else.

I worked on a state senate campaign in high school. We addressed an awful lot of letters to "friend". On the other hand, our opponent would write "Dear Fellow Republican". Only problem was, they were pulling addresses of people who'd voted in the last Republican primary, which had had a greater than usual incidence of cross-over voting.
posted by hoyland at 3:32 PM on October 9, 2016

I'm currently at work but I do have Internet access. Can anyone recommend a good live-blog/website of the debate as it happens. Leaning more towards something that is text heavy as I won't have access to video or sound. But I do have access to the web. Ideally a news website that is text heavy with quotes, etc. Not even sure if its possible, but is there anyplace on the web that transcribes the debate as it happens live?
posted by Fizz at 3:33 PM on October 9, 2016

(Donnie's ghost writer) Tony Schwartz ‏@tonyschwart

You will see the real & only Trump tonight. He won't be contrite. Desperate and cornered by his own words, he will double down & attack.

Isn't this what he's already done? Oh, now he'll do it on live TV.

Backed into a corner, like a wild animal, Trump's hair will finally lash out for all to see.
posted by filthy light thief at 3:35 PM on October 9, 2016 [14 favorites]

Donner hit a point of no return at some point. Trump supporters can see the error of their ways and bail at anytime. Unless they somehow get him into office and we all the bail out of the country. Then they're the Donner party.
posted by ghost phoneme at 3:35 PM on October 9, 2016

Fizz: the 538 live blogs are usually pretty good, as well as the NYT. They'll be posted to the main pages of those sites around debate time. No realtime transcription but you will get realtime video clips and commentary.
posted by dis_integration at 3:35 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Thanks for sharing those dis_integration, sio42. I'll follow along as well as I can without the audio/video.
posted by Fizz at 3:37 PM on October 9, 2016

It's gonna be nixon vs. kennedy all over again. These blowhards never learn.
posted by valkane at 3:37 PM on October 9, 2016

What is the word or phrase for when you feeling so embarassed or icky watching someone who is embarassing themselves, sometimes to the point of where it's painful. My google is failing.
posted by Jalliah at 3:38 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Like others, I'm worried about what Trump will say tonight and how dirty he'll try to make it. But there's reason to believe who won't reference any of Bill's past actions at all. He's a coward and shrinks away from direct conflict -- he did it with the President of Mexico, he did it in the first debate. If he *does* actually bring it up, I don't think he'll know what to do next, and it will be weird and awkward and it will knock him off his game. He's very bad at directly challenging people, and particularly when that person is a woman.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 3:38 PM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

The Guardian do kickass liveblogging: www.guardian.co.uk.
posted by Sebmojo at 3:39 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

What is the word or phrase for when you feeling so embarassed or icky watching someone who is embarassing themselves, sometimes to the point of where it's painful. My google is failing.

Trumped.
posted by ryoshu at 3:39 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't C-SPAN typically have live transcription?
posted by J.K. Seazer at 3:39 PM on October 9, 2016

What is the word or phrase for when you feeling so embarassed or icky watching someone who is embarassing themselves, sometimes to the point of where it's painful. My google is failing

fremdschamen.
posted by Sebmojo at 3:39 PM on October 9, 2016 [16 favorites]

What is the word or phrase for when you feeling so embarassed or icky watching someone who is embarassing themselves, sometimes to the point of where it's painful. My google is failing.

Fremdschämen.
posted by KathrynT at 3:40 PM on October 9, 2016 [14 favorites]

I'm with the Clinton/Kaine debate watch party. About a hundred people on our way by foot, car, and bus to greet the motorcade and wave signs near campus.
posted by jedicus at 3:40 PM on October 9, 2016 [15 favorites]

I haven't been commenting much here since the Access Hollywood tape came out—I've felt like y'all have been doing an admirable job of covering this story from every conceivable angle, and I haven't had much to add—but one thing I'd like to say is this: whatever else it is, this episode represents a great opportunity for the American People to have a frank, expectations-resetting discussion about topics like misogyny, sexual assault, rape culture, toxic masculinity, and other subjects that we often have a very hard time talking about outside of places like MetaFilter where we feel comfortable that we're among like-minded people.

Everybody is talking about this stuff right now whether they like it or not, and I feel like there's a window for us to use this moment in history to push forward in the great ongoing battle against misogyny. Now is the time for those of us who have been sitting on the sidelines out of fear, despair, or even just habit to get up on whatever soapboxes we have and make it be known that this kind of shit is Not OK and that people who perpetrate or enable it are doing wrong. If you've been waiting for your moment to step up and start walking the walk, there's never been a better one in our lifetimes.

We need to collectively seize the dialogue and make it known that people who accept the ideas, actions, and language expressed in that video as "just the way it is," that "everybody does it," that "boys will be boys," are On Notice and need to step up their games or risk being shut out of society. We need to make it loud and clear that that shit is not only unacceptable in a presidential candidate, it is unacceptable period and it needs to stop.

One of the biggest things I think we can do—and when I say "we" now I am mostly talking about men—is push back hard on the "locker room banter" aspect of this issue. If you're a man, you've interacted with other men who do speak like Trump does. You've been in places and situations where that kind of language is totally normalized. You know just how common the idea is that that's "just how guys talk, don't be such a pussy, it's just joking anyway." If you've any decency then I'm sure it made you uncomfortable, and maybe you've called people out sometimes, but I'm sure you've also let it slide sometimes as well, told yourself that there was nothing you could do, that you didn't know what to say, that you'll step up next time. You know there will be a next time, because there always is.

Let's not wait. Let's make hay while the sun shines, and get up in whatever forums we find ourselves and make it clear that this is not normal, it's not just how men are, and it's not just harmless fun. It's despicable, it's unacceptable, it's hateful, and it won't be stood for. And then let's make a pledge to ourselves that the next time we find ourselves with a group of other men who think it's OK to express the kind of disgusting misogyny that Trump expresses in that video, we will not be silent. As men, we need to make it clear to our brothers that this is not something that everybody does, that we don't and that we won't stand for it in our fellows. Whether they be family members, or workmates, or guys at the bar or on the train, we need to step up and push back hard against this shit.

It's on us to do this work, uncomfortable though it may be to do. Women aren't in a position to do it, simply because by and large these men don't talk this way around women. Even the most foul-mouthed misogynist is usually able to put on a mask of decency when women are present, to code-switch to language that is more acceptable in a mixed-gender setting. Also, these misogynists are adept at dismissing and minimizing what women have to say—they simply won't hear it if it's not coming from a man. In fact, they already know women don't like this kind of talk—that's why they don't talk like that in front of women.

We need to make it clear that men don't like it either. We need to make it absolutely clear that nobody likes that talk, and that they'll be pushed to the fringes if they keep it up. We are in a unique moment where it is possible to say these things, and we need to start saying it as loud as we can and we need to never shut up about it. We can do it. The status quo can change. Now is the best opportunity we're ever likely to have, and we need to make the most of it.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 3:41 PM on October 9, 2016 [88 favorites]

Fremdschämen.

... which was apparently coined during a watching of Germany's equivalent of American Idol. the things you learn. thanks trump!
posted by Sebmojo at 3:42 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Thank you!
posted by Jalliah at 3:42 PM on October 9, 2016

The Slot: Trump Has Been Sequestered In His Tower, Ivanka Doesn't Visit

Little known fact, Trump Tower is the home of the world's smallest violin, and performances are now held nightly.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:44 PM on October 9, 2016 [14 favorites]

Wow for that, Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The. May I cross-post in full to Facebook? If so, do you have a preference for linked citation?
posted by Sweetdefenestration at 3:45 PM on October 9, 2016

here are the Cook Report ratings as of Oct. 4

I think the House races have been pretty stable throughout this cycle, with Democrats being expected to pick up about 15 seats (which still gets them only halfway out of their 30+ seat deficit). They're looking like they will hold onto pretty much all their seats and pick up a good majority of the tossups (look at that chunk of districts that are labeled Republican Toss Up in that report), but to take back the House they have to move into another tranche of seats that have been gerrymandered toward about 55%R / 45%D. There are a lot of exurban Midwestern areas that will have to go for the Democratic candidate plus a couple districts in New York and California, and even then they're going to need to get lucky in a few districts that right now are deep red territory.

So we're still a ways from talking seriously about Speaker Pelosi, Part II: Women Running Everything. But: The Trumsplosion continues.

More likely, I think, is a slender Republican majority of <10 seats, and narrow Democratic control of the Senate (by 0 (Kaine the tiebreaking vote) or 1 seat).

Can Paul Ryan hold together a caucus that's furious at its loss to its 20-year object of hate, and divided into two parts each convinced that the other half of the party is responsible? When any bloc of 10-15 GOP reps can defect (either to the Dems, or stage right) and blow up a working Republican majority? John Boehner couldn't thread the needle, it remains to be seen whether the fingers of the Janesville Granny-Starver are... small enough.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:46 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

What is the word or phrase for when you feeling so embarassed or icky watching someone who is embarassing themselves, sometimes to the point of where it's painful. My google is failing.

In spanish it's: "pena ajena".
posted by Omon Ra at 3:46 PM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

electoral-vote.com has updated, moving Ohio out of Trump's column.
posted by cashman at 3:47 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

[Billy] Bush under fire for his own 11 yr old remarks & apparently failing to inform colleagues of mind bending exchange w Trump

Cousin Jeb is also probably not the president of Billy's fan club at this point. Oh GOD how I would've loved to hear that phone call. Or maybe they're saving it for the Thanksgiving dinner table. [enjoying happy daydream]
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:49 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Per the linked Cook Report (Thanks trottws!)

Toss-up Senate Races (note, all from GOP column)

Rubio (FL)

IN (Coats)

Blunt (MO)

Ayotte (NH)

Burr (NC)

Toomey (PA)

Reid (NV) from the Ds is also listed as toss up.
#NextPost
posted by petebest at 3:51 PM on October 9, 2016

any bloc of 10-15 GOP reps can defect (either to the Dems, or stage right) and blow up a working Republican majority

In the UK we sometimes see sitting politicians change parties, and then continue to hold their seat as a member of their new party. Does that happen in the USA, or are there mechanisms that prevent it?
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:52 PM on October 9, 2016

Perhaps this is an appropriate spot to share a page from We Are All In The Dumps With Jack and Guy, the Maurice Sendak book that made me a fan as an adult. It's two traditional rhymes that Sendak uses to tell a story about gentrification and homelessness and, incidentally, Donald Trump.

It's also the book where I read it and knew Sendak was gay many years before that was public information, because it's sort of a story about two guys who are a couple and adopt a baby.

But anyway, now that all our panic indexes are lower, I can contemplate the sad Trump-related image without totally wailing in despair and hatred.
posted by Frowner at 3:53 PM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

Debate post was written an hour ago. It'll post after eight, per mod request.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:55 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

Fizz, ChurchHatesTucker has a list of streaming links over in the election debate logistics thread.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:55 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

IN (Coats)

I'd be *shocked* if Bayh didn't win.
posted by percor at 3:57 PM on October 9, 2016

Sitting politicians in the US occasionally change parties. Senator Ben Nighthorse Campbell went from Democrat to Republican, and Senator Arlen Specter switched from Republican to Democrat. It's pretty rare, but it occasionally happens.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:58 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Sitting politicians changing parties can and has happened in the US
posted by thelonius at 3:58 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_switching_in_the_United_States
posted by zakur at 3:58 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Does that happen in the USA, or are there mechanisms that prevent it?

It has happened a few times. Most famously Joe Lieberman went independent after 2000. Arlen Specter is another notable example. There are a few others, but I can't think of them. It's rare, but perfectly possible.
posted by dis_integration at 3:59 PM on October 9, 2016

I'd be *shocked* if Bayh didn't win.

A couple of months ago, Bayh led by 18 -- the latest poll has them tied.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 3:59 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

can we add vote.gov to #NextPost? if it's not already there that is . . .
posted by petebest at 3:59 PM on October 9, 2016

"In the UK we sometimes see sitting politicians change parties, and then continue to hold their seat as a member of their new party. Does that happen in the USA, or are there mechanisms that prevent it?"

sio is incorrect; this can happen, and has. In the US, we elect the person, not the party, and there's no mechanism to remove a Congressman who switches parties. It's more typical to switch to or from independent, but sometimes people swap major party. Here's a list!

In fact we have an example from just this year -- Bernie Sanders switched from Independent to Democrat while in office! Lieberman is probably the other big recent one that people remember well, although that was an election-year change. Here's a list just of Senators.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 4:01 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

I'd be *shocked* if Bayh didn't win.

That said, with his war chest, I'm baffled he's not advertising more.
posted by percor at 4:01 PM on October 9, 2016

Lieberman switched in '06. He got primaried for supporting Bush and ran as an Independent in the general.
posted by cmfletcher at 4:01 PM on October 9, 2016

Jim Jeffords switched in 2001, and it actually had ramifications. Prior to his switch, the Senate was split 50-50 between parties. Jeffords leaving the Republican party threw the Senate to the Dems.
posted by LionIndex at 4:04 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

Who is the likely Democratic Senate majority or minority leader once Reid retires?

I assume it's Durbin or Schumer but I can't remember who is more senior.
posted by vuron at 4:06 PM on October 9, 2016

"I think she's been through more than any woman should have to bear."

—Donald Trump on Hillary Clinton, 1999 (HT: @KFILE & @CNN) w/video
posted by chris24 at 4:06 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

I think I was conflating Sen. Jim Jeffords and Joe Lieberman's party departures. I remember the Jeffords defection from the GOP as one riddled with bitter recriminations from the GOP side for his treachery and traitorous character. One thing is true about party switching in the US: it makes you as many enemies as it does friends, if not more.
posted by dis_integration at 4:07 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

As a further bit of context for our friends abroad, Independent Senators and representatives typically "caucus with" one party or the other. You often see news articles like "Joe Lieberman, an Independent who caucuses with the Democrats ..." So Independents are generally relatively openly supporting one party's legislative agenda, without supporting the party itself (and possibly being an unreliable vote). Which is actually a teeny little bit of third-party-ism in the US Congress and shows us a picture of how a third party might actually function: by caucusing with one of the major parties and helping advance the agreed-upon portions of their mutual agendas.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 4:08 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

It's Schumer according to the panel on MTP this morning.
posted by birdheist at 4:08 PM on October 9, 2016

Schumer is the anointed successor.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 4:10 PM on October 9, 2016

Although Joe Lieberman shows us how a human being ought *not* to function.
posted by uosuaq at 4:11 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Man can you imagine what Ivanka's withdrawal would do?

My SO said that he was going to skip the debate tonight, and so it is just me and thee, my friends, but he may have the right idea. Everything that may come out of that man's mouth might be deranged hatred.
posted by angrycat at 4:11 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

> Apparently one of the new Trumpist positions is "Republican leadership/the liberal media is just trying to trick you by saying this is about your sisters and mothers and wives! It's just about those (insert slutshaming here) Hollywood women! Not like real women at all!"

Which is kind of grimly funny since media representation of women (whether anime girls or western porn actresses or mainstream actresses) are the template by which most of the channer contingent uses as the measure by which they compare all women in their daily life.
posted by at by at 4:12 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Politico: House GOP leaders agonize over Trump strategy

"House Republican leaders are paralyzed over how to respond to Donald Trump's vulgar comments about women, aware that he could turn against them but also cognizant that the GOP nominee has now put control of the chamber in serious danger."

How bad are their internal polls if they're seriously worried about losing the House?
posted by chris24 at 4:13 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Schumer being minority or majority leader should definitely continue the legacy of trench warfare that Reid specialized in.
posted by vuron at 4:14 PM on October 9, 2016

Canvassing report from Ohio's 8th. There is a sweet mural of Alexander Hamilton next to True West coffee in Hamilton OH. Went to the fourth ward and registered four voters in advance of Tuesday's deadline. Lots of positive Hillary sentiment in the ward. Knocked on 100 doors, had a blast. I was canvassing with a retired Republican judge who won office in the district a few years ago. She is a registered Republican due to her former aspirations in this conservative district. I am in awe of her.
posted by Bistle at 4:14 PM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

Party-switching is relatively rare, but I think it doesn't stand out in our minds as much as it might, because the swap is usually preceded by months and years of being on the outside of party issues over and over again, usually as the electorate shifts and the party priorities switch, and usually there's primaries from the right/left and acrimony with party leaders. Arlen Specter's switch, for example, was notable but not shocking, as he'd been primaried from the right several times and was increasingly at public odds with the Republican leadership over their priorities as his 1960s middle-of-the-road Republicanism got left in the dust for the Tea Party types of priorities.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 4:15 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

In more scuttlebutt, Kendal Unruh is saying Hugh Hewitt told her there is material on Trump paying for abortions.
posted by corb at 4:15 PM on October 9, 2016 [17 favorites]

Schumer being minority or majority leader should definitely continue the legacy of trench warfare that Reid specialized in.

Judging from his selection of Senate candidates to back I have far less faith in Schumer to hold the line if necessary than Reid.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:16 PM on October 9, 2016

In more scuttlebutt, Kendal Unruh is saying Hugh Hewitt told her there is material on Trump paying for abortions.

This is the most absurd Trump rumor yet. When has he ever paid for anything with his own money?
posted by tonycpsu at 4:17 PM on October 9, 2016 [36 favorites]

Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The I appreciate your comment and am delighted to have you as an ally.

Because I've seen it in many places in the past two days, I do want to push back a little on the idea that "by and large these men don't talk this way around women." In my experience, these men do talk this way around us. They frequently don't do it when other men are around but, boy, do they let us know exactly what they think about our "fuckability" and what they want to do to our bodies. We might not tell you about it because our experiences say that most men will minimize or disregard our concerns it but that doesn't mean it isn't part of the background noise of being a woman in this society.

Make no mistake, it is rarely a surprise to many of us to find out that a particular man engages in this type of dialogue when we aren't around.
posted by mcduff at 4:17 PM on October 9, 2016 [30 favorites]

How bad are their internal polls if they're seriously worried about losing the House?

This could be the poison fruit of the gerrymander, which was really well-constructed to produce a stable, safe GOP majority under normal circumstances but would be highly vulnerable to an unexpected black-swan wave like they look like they might be facing. If they turned a bunch of R+10 and R+5 districts into R+3 and R+1 in the name of expansion they could be looking at a massacre.
posted by gerryblog at 4:18 PM on October 9, 2016 [11 favorites]

When has he ever paid for anything with his own money?

It'll turn out his foundation did it.
posted by drezdn at 4:18 PM on October 9, 2016 [16 favorites]

How bad are their internal polls if they're seriously worried about losing the House?

In more scuttlebutt, Kendal Unruh is saying Hugh Hewitt told her there is material on Trump paying for abortions.

Or how bad are the scandals about to be uncovered.
posted by chris24 at 4:19 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Party-switching is definitely rarer in the US. Partly it's because our political spectrum is so much wider and (now) more polarized than in the UK, Canada, Australia, etc.

Partly it's because in Westminster systems the party leadership (cabinet) gets chosen by the PM pretty much at their discretion, whereas in the US you have to work your way up the committee ladder in your party and if you jump ship you might start back at zero (unless you have enough leverage to demand a plum chairmanship off the bat).

What has been happening (and we may well see it continue) is small ad-hoc bipartisan groupings that pledge their support for particular votes or legislation.
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:20 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

whereas in the US you have to work your way up the committee ladder in your party and if you jump ship you might start back at zero (unless you have enough leverage to demand a plum chairmanship off the bat).

Seniority, in the senate at least, is calculated regardless of party affiliation.
posted by dis_integration at 4:22 PM on October 9, 2016

In more scuttlebutt, Kendal Unruh is saying Hugh Hewitt told her there is material on Trump paying for abortions.

If that's the case, Pence's consequent crisis of faith will outstrip the previous one by several minutes at the very least.
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:22 PM on October 9, 2016 [8 favorites]

Hillary could just offer to let him have the first turn...
posted by uosuaq at 4:24 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Sweetdefenestration, feel free to share as much as you like. I don't care how or even if I am credited. If my comment resonated with you and you want to spread the message, far be it for me to put any obstacles in your way.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 4:26 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

Seniority is maintained but committee assignments are handed out by party leadership. Those committees are the room where it happens.
posted by cmfletcher at 4:26 PM on October 9, 2016

Serves the GOP right if the gerrymander does end up susceptible to a landslide (and if this landslide is big enough). In my mind, the gerrymander of 2010 is responsible for a significant portion of the GOP's current problems-- because safe seats are still safe when a centrist gets primaried by an extremist. So more extremists get elected, so a larger portion of both the internal party apparatus and the voters who identify with the party are extremist. And lo, Trump.
posted by nat at 4:26 PM on October 9, 2016 [11 favorites]

Complaining about a coin flip? What an infant. I'm beginning to wonder if Putin himself will "unendorse," in whatever form that might take, and cut his losses. Who could imagine propping up this malfunctioning animatronic until Inauguration Day?
posted by Countess Elena at 4:26 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

In more scuttlebutt, Kendal Unruh is saying Hugh Hewitt told her there is material on Trump paying for abortions.

Ohhh daaaamn... I'm not surprised if it's true. But I think that would be the thing that would finally strip away his remaining evangelical fans, leaving him with only the pepe trolls.
posted by lovecrafty at 4:27 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Forget the zingers, this is the right move when they start the debate with the tape question.

@LOLGOP
"One quiet moment that Trump might not be able to recover from tonight: Clinton expressing empathy for Trump's wife."
posted by chris24 at 4:27 PM on October 9, 2016 [12 favorites]

Okay, I have a lot to catch up on, but I have to point out a few dozen things:

The history of Today's Republican Party. A "permanent minority" party until they went to non-politician Dwight Eisenhower to piggy-back on his military success to win the Presidency. It was considered "the party of the Rich and the party of the Banks" and still mostly is. But the Southern Strategy intended to add Racist Whites to its constituency worked, at least for the Presidency, until Bill Clinton's "Third Way" attracted some Big Money. After Citizen's United, Obama and Hillary Clinton went into high gear to get Big Money to change teams, as they had to; meanwhile Donald Trump is an alleged billionaire that the Big Money openly distrusts from past business dealings with him (more dishonest than Wells Fargo? hells, yeah) and that appeals to the Not-Big-Money Republicans, and with the help of Big Media's desire for ratings/internet-traffic (AND a compliant future FCC) he 'took over' the 'rank and file' Republican Party (as Deplorable as that group is) but with only reluctant support from Leadership and Already Elected Rs. I'm just semi gobsmacked that THIS is the SURELY THIS that is killing him (after all, "Republican leadership/the liberal media" are both as supportive of Rape Culture as the Trumpists). But then, I was well read enough about him to assume he was a casual sexual predator.

I've mentioned before that I met someone two decades ago who had been put out of business by Trump's dishonesty, and I still tend to believe that his bigotry/instability/etc. would all be overruled by his greed, therefore he was much more likely to transfer the US Treasury to a personal account than start a nuclear war. I have also mentioned that I met someone who had worked in the next cubicle from Scott Adams when he had just started his comic strip and not quit his day job yet. He characterized Adams as "uncomfortably quiet" as if he felt he was living as Dilbert but wished he could be Dogbert the Evil Genius. I also once worked for a disc jockey who had bit part in Raging Bull but that was after I worked for him so I have no Robert DeNiro stories, and briefly worked for Gary Owens who had stories about EVERYBODY but he later put them all in a very funny book so I can't claim any exclusivity for them. But I have no direct connection to Mark Burnett; still I think he's about two weeks away from realizing that being loyal to Trump is going to do far more damage to his business than being disloyal.

My history with the Clintons is ... let's say awkward. In 1992, I supported fellow-Californian Jerry Brown, although I lost much faith in him when he folded in response to the success of the devastating Proposition 13. Even then, I had more respect for Hillary than Bill. (And please, everyone should remember Bill won the Electoral College with 43% of the popular vote to Bush Sr's 37% and Perot's 18%... this year, Johnson can genuinely only hurt Trump) I was glad to see Hillary championing Health Care Reform (personally, I was on my way to bankruptcy from my wife's medical expenses even WITH well-above-average employer-provided insurance) and heartbroken when she failed... and suspicious that Centrist Bill saddled his More Liberal and Washington-Inexperienced Wife with his hardest challenge then shoved her in the background while he turned right on the Crime Bill and Welfare Reform. I was kinda relieved I didn't see her do much defending those policies. In 1996, I was tempted to vote for Bob Dole who I considered (at the time) "the last honest Republican" and MAYBE more likely to stand up to Newt's Army than Bill, but ended up clicking Bill's box. (Again, note Bill never got 50% of the popular vote, but Perot's 8% dragged down Dole to 40% - Al Gore in 2000 got 3 million more votes) After she started her own post-White-House political career, I was hopeful she'd divorce that terrible man and the fact that she didn't remains my #1 problem with her. In 2008, I still preferred her to Obama, just because of his lack of experience; I'd have preferred Biden or Kucinich (but didn't think he could be a 'winner') or even Edwards (a more openly liberal southern male? sounds like a winner... then he self-distructed) and by the California Primary there were only two. This election, she was clearly the best of a very weak group - I was semi-gobsmacked at how well Sanders did, coming from a clear 'outsider' position - and wished that one of the very good women in the Senate had challenged her claim to be the First Woman President. But all things considered, I think she's Good Enough to support whole-heartedly (note: current diagnosis from my cardiologist indicates my 'whole-heart' ain't what it used to be) and have been relieved that Career Crook and Business Failure Trump was her opponent - the one Semi-Republican she could most easily beat.

OSFCPL ... low and dropping... Trump's War on GOP is reducing my fear of Republican Congress.
Trump talking pts urge total war on Rs: “They are more concerned with their political future than they are about the future of the country" WE DON’T NEED EM.
Maybe not for an Armed Insurrection... okay, THAT fear is rising.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:28 PM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

In more scuttlebutt, Kendal Unruh is saying Hugh Hewitt told her there is material on Trump paying for abortions.

I'm... not seeing what the scandal is? Unless he coerced women into getting abortions.
posted by indubitable at 4:29 PM on October 9, 2016

god help me, i might watch this live. it's the best chance to see someone spontaneously combust on national tv i'm gonna get.
posted by murphy slaw at 4:29 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Ohhh daaaamn... I'm not surprised if it's true. But I think that would be the thing that would finally strip away his remaining evangelical fans, leaving him with only the pepe trolls.

I doubt it. Evangelicals have stood by racism, misogyny, and sexual assault. A little murder (from their point of view) won't phase most of them.
posted by Justinian at 4:30 PM on October 9, 2016

I'm... not seeing what the scandal is? Unless he coerced women into getting abortions.

It'll be a problem for his evangelical followers.
posted by suelac at 4:31 PM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

I'm... not seeing what the scandal is? Unless he coerced women into getting abortions.

All he's got left is nihilist neo-Nazis, Russia, and evangelicals who literally think his SCOTUS pick will save millions of babies. If he loses those, and can't convince them that he has repented (and we know how good he is at that) . . .
posted by Countess Elena at 4:32 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

In more scuttlebutt, Kendal Unruh is saying Hugh Hewitt told her there is material on Trump paying for abortions.

This has always been a looming threat for the Trump campaign, and an obvious one. Personally I would hope it would be not a huge issue in a general election (paying for a legal procedure -- so what?) but in a Republican primary it would have doomed him. I always had this lingering suspicion that this was thing that was going to be brought up at the 11th hour to knock him out of the Republican nomination, and it's weird to be hearing about it now.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 4:32 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Evangelicals have stood by racism, misogyny, and sexual assault.

They've stood by on all those because of abortion.
posted by chris24 at 4:33 PM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

I'm... not seeing what the scandal is? Unless he coerced women into getting abortions.

Like with the hot mic footage, it's not so much what he said or did specifically. It's how embarrassing it becomes to be associated with him.
posted by bibliowench at 4:34 PM on October 9, 2016

Fucking A, man. I just got *this* close to getting into it with various Facebook folks, then made the smart decision and decided not to comment (and deleted one comment). It's no wonder people think HRC is evil—they seem to believe that she singlehandedly is able to control the actions of others, up to and including rape, disenfranchisement, murder, and societal ruin ALL VIA OTHER PEOPLE. My head is going to explode.
posted by mynameisluka at 4:35 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

but once those people switch they don't go back, correct? it's more of a one-time deal

Usually, but Sanders, e.g., is returning to Independent status.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:35 PM on October 9, 2016

I'm... not seeing what the scandal is? Unless he coerced women into getting abortions.

Most of Trump's base wants to outlaw birth control, even nodding politely at a woman who's thinking about getting an abortion is anathema to them.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:36 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Imagine if he paid for it with campaign funds...
posted by drezdn at 4:36 PM on October 9, 2016

He swore up and down that only losers did debate prep until the bus tape came out, and then he used debate prep as an excuse for holing up in Trump Tower. Now prep is something to brag about, just like teleprompters. (I am making this comment as a protest against the Trumpian redefinition of reality.)
posted by Leslie Knope at 4:36 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Yes, that is Paula Jones, Katherine Willey and Juanita Broaddrick with Trump in his prep.
posted by chris24 at 4:37 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

My evangelical parents will freak if it turns out that Trump has paid for abortions. (If they haven't already -- I'm afraid that asking them would come across as gloating.) I think that's the only reason they've been on board so far anyway.

I mean, I've seen it as pretty obvious all along that Trump has insisted on (if not paid for) some abortions in his time, and I've thought it strange that the Democrats weren't doing more whispering to this effect (for fuck's sakes, the man was a pro-choice Democrat until very recently; why the Republican party hasn't been more wary of him for this I have no idea), but I suppose it makes sense to hold it for an October Surprise.

If things settle down in a few days, I will have to share with my parents the Good News About Egg McMuffin.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 4:37 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

mcduff, your point is well taken. I was aware that that was a thing, but I didn't feel like I had enough of a handle on it to be confident working it in without putting my foot in my mouth. I was trying to speak from a place of personal experience (when I talk about being made uncomfortable by misogynistic language, about not always stepping up when the situation calls for it, about publicly decrying that kind of talk and making a pledge to consistently confront it in the future, I am talking about myself) and didn't want to step too far outside of that lest I make an error and distract from the point I was trying to make.

Thank you for adding that important corollary; you said it much better than I could have done.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 4:38 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Yes, that is Paula Jones, Katherine Willey and Juanita Broaddrick with Trump in his prep.

Wait. Really? Are they going to be in attendance at the town hall?
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 4:38 PM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

It won't, by and large, be a problem for his evangelical followers I don't think. I'm in one of the reddest parts of a very red state and I am surrounded day in and day out by people who are single issue abortion voters. It MIGHT make some of them stay home (which would be great!) but I would be very surprised if it hurt him a lot. Most of them (in my experience) are voting against Hillary as much as voting for Trump.
posted by sporkwort at 4:38 PM on October 9, 2016

Most of Trump's base wants to outlaw birth control, even nodding politely at a woman who's thinking about getting an abortion is anathema to them.

Their alternative is still Hillary Clinton. I don't think many of them can stomach that.
posted by indubitable at 4:38 PM on October 9, 2016

Christ, what a shitshow.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:38 PM on October 9, 2016 [19 favorites]

I can imagine if news broke about DJT paying for abortions it might give a lot of those folks who are anxious to bail but for whatever reason haven't extricated themselves yet the clear cover to do it

"I'm tearing down the Washington Monument and installing the furnace of Moloch and I'm going to sacrifice YOUR children" wouldn't be enough cover for some of those guys.

(fake)
posted by pyramid termite at 4:39 PM on October 9, 2016

Yes, that is Paula Jones, Katherine Willey and Juanita Broaddrick with Trump in his prep.

...are they his guests to the debate?
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 4:39 PM on October 9, 2016

The press pool was told they were going to see debate prep and walked into this instead.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:39 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Yes, really. Whether they will be in the hall I do not know.
posted by chris24 at 4:39 PM on October 9, 2016

...wait, his "debate prep" today was sitting around with a who's who of Clinton accusers from the 80-90s? Am I reading that correctly?
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:40 PM on October 9, 2016 [17 favorites]

Paying for women's abortions is one thing.

Coercing women to have abortions, for which offering to pay for them is part of the coercion, is an entirely other thing and I'm worried that will be part of the story too.
posted by at by at 4:40 PM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

Wait. Really? Are they going to be in attendance at the town hall?

You missed the matinee where Trump is trying to drill a Breitbart story about Bill's rapes into the public sphere.
posted by Talez at 4:40 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'm wondering how exactly it would be proven that he paid for an abortion without ruining some woman's life many years down the line.
posted by dilaudid at 4:40 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Yes, that is Paula Jones, Katherine Willey and Juanita Broaddrick with Trump in his prep.

And Kathy Shelton, I believe.

This shit is getting gross.

Or, rather, grosser.
posted by dersins at 4:41 PM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

I got the impression that it was a bait and switch, like the hotel press conference.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:41 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

I mean, I've seen it as pretty obvious all along that Trump has insisted on (if not paid for) some abortions in his time, and I've thought it strange that the Democrats weren't doing more whispering to this effect

I would hope they weren't, because that entire attack is premised on the idea of an abortion being a shameful thing that people keep secret.
posted by indubitable at 4:42 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

I'm wondering how exactly it would be proven that he paid for an abortion without ruining some woman's life many years down the line.

If the woman herself came forward? Not everybody thinks that an abortion is a life-ruining event. In fact it's a legal medical procedure that many women have had and will have.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 4:42 PM on October 9, 2016 [11 favorites]

I got the impression that it was a bait and switch, like the hotel press conference.

Wait, did he do the one thing that actually got the press to turn on him again, just minutes before a debate that may destroy his political aspirations once and for all?

I just cut myself on Trump's Razor, someone get me a bandaid.
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:43 PM on October 9, 2016 [13 favorites]

Jesus, these new developments are going to be fatal to Bill Clinton's chances at a third term.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:44 PM on October 9, 2016 [40 favorites]

"I'm tearing down the Washington Monument and installing the furnace of Moloch and I'm going to sacrifice YOUR children"

Ha ha ha that will so piss off the liberal PC progressive stack socjus machine whiners!
Good one Donald
TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP
posted by flabdablet at 4:44 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

"Trump Forced Me to Have an Abortion" would be a pretty damn powerful headline, I'm just sayin'. Even more powerful if it were above a way in which he had legally coerced someone to do so or used his power and money to make it the only option.




(Yes, I am a journalist. Yes, it would be a damn good hed)
posted by mynameisluka at 4:44 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Yeah, this is a thing.
posted by johnpowell at 4:45 PM on October 9, 2016

Oh this is going to be worse that I even thought it would be.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:46 PM on October 9, 2016 [12 favorites]

Paula Jones: "Why don't y'all go ask Bill Clinton that?"

Please tell me that the reporter said "because he's not running for president." I mean, I'm sure that the reporter did not say that, but I really wish he or she did.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:47 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

this has stopped being about the election - it's now about how the trump followers can declare our government and our society illegitimate and do their best to undermine both in the coming years
posted by pyramid termite at 4:47 PM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

@chrislhayes -- The goal has clearly shifted from winning the election to imposing maximum humiliation on Hillary Clinton.

Yep. Humiliate that damned woman.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 4:47 PM on October 9, 2016 [19 favorites]

Chris Hayes: The goal has clearly shifted from winning the election to imposing maximum humiliation on Hillary Clinton.
posted by Justinian at 4:48 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

Please tell me that the reporter said "because he's not running for president." I mean, I'm sure that the reporter did not say that, but I really wish he or she did.

Per Sopan Deb on Twitter, the reporter asked that as they were already being escorted out.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:48 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

CNN reporting that all four of them will be in the debate hall. This is a nightmare come true. Anchors are kind of speechless as to how to even comment.
posted by windbox at 4:49 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

and you can hate me for saying this, but the shit that's been going on in this election IS a sign of a decadent, decaying country

we have problems
posted by pyramid termite at 4:50 PM on October 9, 2016 [48 favorites]

Oh, for sure.
posted by drezdn at 4:50 PM on October 9, 2016

Well, if you're speechless, you could donate $5 to the Clinton campaign or sign up to volunteer next weekend.

Jeez louise. I think I'm going to skip the "debate" and make cupcakes.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:51 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Trump is shitting himself with panic if he's trying to attack Hillary by bringing Bill's accusers to the debate. I expect it'll backfire, badly.
posted by tclark at 4:51 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Those women have been through some terrible things. But that doesn't make them good people.
posted by Justinian at 4:51 PM on October 9, 2016 [18 favorites]

and at that moment she saw the first glimmer of reflective paint, yellow and black
wafting through the late summer heat rising off the roadway
and in the next instant she saw the barricade
a low, thick concrete wall behind the warning sign
and she tightened her grip on the steering wheel, pressed harder on the gas pedal
and fixed her stare straight ahead

MC 900ft Jesus, New Moon
posted by ctmf at 4:51 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Mike Pence is sticking with Donald Trump in public, but in private he is holding his options open, according to sources close to him.
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 4:51 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Fuck. This is ugly. I have no doubt she's prepared for this, but it's just so gross and ugly.
posted by yasaman at 4:52 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Can you imagine being Hillary Clinton? And being in that debate hall, trying to discuss policy because you want to be President, and four people who have claimed that your partner sexually assaulted them are sitting on the front row? Because I can't. I couldn't do it. Hillary Clinton is made of fucking steel.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 4:52 PM on October 9, 2016 [51 favorites]

♪♫ Oh I'll take the high road and you'll take the low road and I'll get to 270 electors befoooooore ye... ♪♫
posted by at by at 4:52 PM on October 9, 2016 [17 favorites]

Someone please tell me how this shitshow is going to backfire on him.

I'll be honest I'm kinda freaking out here.
posted by Jalliah at 4:52 PM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

At this point Clinton should be treating Trump like meeting with Kim Jong Il (Un). Or Rodrigo Duerte. Robert Mugabe. Or Joseph Stalin. The US President has to stand up and meet with despicable garbage humans who have killed thousands of their own people. If she can handle shaking hands with Putin, she can handle Trump trotting out the other women.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:52 PM on October 9, 2016 [12 favorites]

I mean, of course she's prepared for this, but you can't be but so prepared for a sociopath who just wants to burn shit down so it burns down with him.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:52 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

And what happens if one of them starts yelling at her about Bill? Cause that's not going to be good. I can see them doing this. Like 20 oddd years waiting for revenge type thing.
posted by Jalliah at 4:53 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Someone please tell me how this shitshow is going to backfire on him.

Hillary has been dealing with this, and worse than this, for decades. I expect that she'll get through this without being too rattled, and it's going to look like such a cheap shot that undecided women are going to break hard away from Trump.
posted by tclark at 4:54 PM on October 9, 2016 [8 favorites]

So much for Rudy's insistence that the 'Bill Clinton victims are Hillary's fault' is the last line of defense.
posted by The Noble Goofy Elk at 4:54 PM on October 9, 2016

He is just so unspeakably disgusting.
posted by skybluepink at 4:54 PM on October 9, 2016 [25 favorites]

If Hillary makes it through tonight ok, she's made of adamantium or titanium... Think Iron Lady squared.

Then again, I think she will. She was Secretary of State after all.
posted by drezdn at 4:55 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

This isn't a debate, this is pro wrestling.
posted by cmfletcher at 4:55 PM on October 9, 2016 [17 favorites]

he's going to orchestrate a scene, isn't he? - what a turd
posted by pyramid termite at 4:55 PM on October 9, 2016

Someone please tell me how this shitshow is going to backfire on him.

How does it not? It's low. It's down in the gutter nasty. It won't play well.
posted by dis_integration at 4:55 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Full credit to Monica for not being there.

Please tell me she's not there, Im not watching live. I dont hate myself that much.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:55 PM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

We're going to hear Trump pivoting to allegations of Clinton hiring private investigators to follow Bill's accusers, we're going to hear about Clinton being an enabler, we're going to hear about "differences between words and actions" and it's going to dominate 50% of the conversation.

I know we're trying to be optimistic for a poised and stoic and prepared Hillary smack down, but I predict it's gonna be a fucking roller coaster.

I need a xanax.
posted by windbox at 4:55 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

One of my nicknames for Trump has been "the event horizon of sanity", but I now realize that's a better descriptor for what's about to happen in...oh god...one hour.
posted by uosuaq at 4:55 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

If she can handle shaking hands with Putin, she can handle Trump trotting out the other women.

Honestly, I'm half-expecting Trump to be the one who won't shake hands.

Like I can see that going either way because he might stick his hand out as a way to twist the knife, at least in his stupid brain, but I also wouldn't be shocked if he refuses.

Really, the debate moderators will be failing in a test of basic humanity if they even try to prompt a handshake.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:56 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

I dropped in and the counter said, "11 new posts." Not really.
I have not discussed Trumpgate with my husband. I'll just sit back quietly while he watches the town hall meeting and see his reaction.
My younger daughter is aware. She has two Facebook shares about it, at last count. Her "rape culture is real -- deal with it" shares are a long-time thing. I gave her a note about checking her voting status since she's moved recently.
My older daughter is the one who thinks her vote doesn't count. *sigh* Maybe I can casually invite her to watch with us over pizza.
posted by TrishaU at 4:56 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Well, I think the press scuttlebutt is going to be "Trump's ugly desperation move," so that's something.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:56 PM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

The Republican party should be ashamed of themselves for this shitshow.
posted by cashman at 4:57 PM on October 9, 2016 [12 favorites]

> I would hope they weren't, because that entire attack is premised on the idea of an abortion being a shameful thing that people keep secret.

I was meaning more along the lines of "there are no actual pro-life candidates in the election this year so you may as well not even consider it a factor" whispering. Try to minimize it as an issue at all. (It no longer works once Pence is on the ticket, but it could have been used against Trump between his clinching the nomination and naming a VP.)
posted by Spathe Cadet at 4:57 PM on October 9, 2016

I'm really sorry, I can't watch the debate. As much as I probably should watch the debate out of civic duty to witness it, I just cannot stomach watching that man try to humiliate and drag Hillary to soothe his own wounded pride. I'm sure she will handle it, but I don't think I can without an amount of alcohol that is irresponsible to drink on a work night.

There actually is a WWE pay per view on tonight and looks like I'll be watching that instead. I'm sorry, MeFi. I'm sorry, America.
posted by misskaz at 4:57 PM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

Monica already said she backs Hillary.
posted by drezdn at 4:58 PM on October 9, 2016 [18 favorites]

he's going to orchestrate a scene, isn't he? - what a turd

That's what I'm thinking. Like the type of thing where they'll have to be escorted by out while yelling at Hillary about Bill being a rapist and abuser.
posted by Jalliah at 4:58 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Has she really? I haven't seen that reported anywhere.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:58 PM on October 9, 2016

Full credit to Monica for not being there.

Please tell me she's not there, Im not watching live. I dont hate myself that much.

Way up above, someone said she's trying to get on with her life but that she's voting for Hillary.
posted by dilettante at 4:58 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Way upthread -

In my experience, these men do talk this way around us. They frequently don't do it when other men are around but, boy, do they let us know exactly what they think about our "fuckability" and what they want to do to our bodies.

Thank you for this. I have been trying to figure out how to respond to someone on FB who was talking about how "listen, this is just how guys talk when it's just guys". This is a direct quote - "this is what happens when you have too much testosterone without the calming influence of estrogen." I wrote my own post about how 1. I know too many men who wouldn't talk like this, and 2. I've had men not able to stop themselves despite my estrogen, so....(I left the "cram it" unsaid.)

An interesting note I've heard today, prompted by someone mentioning Clinton going "hard right on Welfare" - On The Media had a fascinating segment this weekend, dealing with the history of both income tax and welfare. And they reminded me of something - Clinton started coming up with his welfare plan before the 1996 Congressional election, but it didn't go to Congress until after that election. The original plan was actually much more generous. So it may not be a matter of Clinton "going hard right" so much as it's a matter of Clinton being dragged "hard right" by Gingrich and co.

And finally:

Can you imagine being Hillary Clinton? And being in that debate hall, trying to discuss policy because you want to be President, and four people who have claimed that your partner sexually assaulted them are sitting on the front row? Because I can't. I couldn't do it. Hillary Clinton is made of fucking steel.

And that is exactly why she should be our next president.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:59 PM on October 9, 2016 [14 favorites]

I'm really sorry, I can't watch the debate.

You have no need to apologize at all. Nobody does.
Except Donald Trump and everyone who got him here.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:59 PM on October 9, 2016 [12 favorites]

If Hillary makes it through tonight ok, she's made of adamantium or titanium... Think Iron Lady squared.

Given some of the extant reservations about Clinton.... maybe not the best comparison?
posted by rokusan at 4:59 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

Well, now we know what Conway has been up to for the last 50 hours.
posted by The Noble Goofy Elk at 4:59 PM on October 9, 2016 [11 favorites]

Also if he's doing this now, he's out of ammunition for the next month. If Hillary can thread the needle and maintain her composure, and not make any huge mistakes, it's going to register as a big win.
posted by tclark at 4:59 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Well, as much as I'd like to watch this shitshow unfold, I can't. It appears that Trump is going the murder suicide route, content to kill his own brand as long as he can take everyone else down with him. Big surprise. That's always the cowards choice. I trust y'all will have a couple thousand or more posts up by the time I return to the thread, I'll appreciate your efforts, but remind everyone to take a break if you need it. Don't force yourselves to watch if it's making you feel unwell. The country will get through this and we've got a ways to go to the election still, so take care of your emotional well being first and we can worry about the rest in the next few days.
posted by gusottertrout at 5:00 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

The uglier the shitshow, the more the Republican brand is damaged.
posted by diogenes at 5:00 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Welp.
posted by asteria at 5:00 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

I feel sorry for the United States right now. As a Canadian, I can only offer this as a type of apology for what many of you must be feeling/experiencing.
posted by Fizz at 5:00 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

I mean, of course she's prepared for this, but you can't be but so prepared for a sociopath who just wants to burn shit down so it burns down with him.

That's the job sometimes. She's got this.
posted by ryoshu at 5:01 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

I just cannot stomach watching that man try to humiliate and drag Hillary to soothe his own wounded pride.

It's worse than that. He's trying to use a bunch of women, some of whom were sexually assaulted, to provoke a horrendous public "catfight" to humiliate another woman as cover for his own sexual assault and verbal abuse of women. We need a bigger word than "chutzpah."
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:01 PM on October 9, 2016 [68 favorites]

I'm not worried at all. Bill Clinton is not the nominee. She is prepared. No one is going to make a scene. Town Hall is not the place that is conducive to discussing this. Honestly, I think this will backfire spectacularly.
posted by Sophie1 at 5:01 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

Watching clips from historic debates on YouTube while they warm up the popcorn machines... can I just say how much I miss the League of Women Voters?
posted by rokusan at 5:02 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

This is what years of reality TV prepared him for. Are we not entertained? Burnett has a shit ton to answer for.

But seriously fuck Trump.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:02 PM on October 9, 2016 [11 favorites]

Seems clear that the gameplan is for the Secret Service to escort them out while they disrupt the debate, right?
posted by gerryblog at 5:02 PM on October 9, 2016

Are we doing a separate chat? Did I miss a link?
posted by bird internet at 5:02 PM on October 9, 2016

Oh my God.

I know, I know, She's Got This, but I don't know if I can watch this in real time instead of reading about her inevitable triumph later.

I feel sick, y'all. Would hanging out in Chat make it better or worse?
posted by Salieri at 5:03 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

So is anyone seriously going to watch this one? It looks like it's shaping up to be really ugly.
posted by indubitable at 5:03 PM on October 9, 2016

@brianstelter
BREAKING: BILLY BUSH SUSPENDED FROM THE TODAY SHOW. "Pending further review."
posted by chris24 at 5:04 PM on October 9, 2016 [35 favorites]

Are we not entertained?

I'm somewhere between vomit and panic attack. So I guess?
posted by dis_integration at 5:05 PM on October 9, 2016 [8 favorites]

Chat is open for livebloggy stuff, the Election logistics Metatalk thread is open for metadiscussion, and there'll be a debate thread at some point no more than half hour before showtime.
posted by LobsterMitten at 5:05 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

At work, will be watching various live blogs, so I'm sure I'll get the greatest hits of awful that is about to commence.
posted by Fizz at 5:05 PM on October 9, 2016

I don't Facebook. Is there a link I can add to the debate post?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:05 PM on October 9, 2016

My older daughter is the one who thinks her vote doesn't count.

That's at least a position you can try to reason with someone about. What always stuns and disappoints me is when people I know come out with this attitude that they've seen through the whole system and have been enlightened with knowledge of the foolishness and vanity of caring about who wins elections.
posted by thelonius at 5:05 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

I'm sitting this one out, but will probably follow along online.
posted by drezdn at 5:05 PM on October 9, 2016

I reiterate that y'all who are panicking here should try to calm down for your own mental health. The election has been a done deal for a long time, now, and Team Clinton is way, way, way in command. Relax. She's beating up on a mental toddler, here. The only thing she may struggle with is holding back so she doesn't accidentally look nasty.

For me, the only thing to feel stress about now is how embarrassing this all is, as a nation.

(People in other countries are seeing this. It's like when you're a child, and your parents argue in public.)
posted by rokusan at 5:05 PM on October 9, 2016 [16 favorites]

They will be in the debate hall.
posted by chris24 at 5:06 PM on October 9, 2016

I wouldn't blame the women for sitting in the front row. Trump is taking advantage of their emotions, but that emotion is no doubt genuine. I mean, Clinton may not believe them, and may believe her husband, but from their perspective, the woman who dismissed their claims of rape and sexual harassment is now positioning herself as a believer of all women's claims, and that has got to be an ugly, ugly feel.

And at the same time, this has still got to be horrible for Clinton, because on some level, I think she probably does realize that there may be some legitimate claims now, or they wouldn't be doing this at this late date, but at the same time, she cannot afford to stop and contemplate the fact that she may be married to a rapist because to do so would let Trump win, and she's all about not letting bullies win.
posted by corb at 5:06 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

I'm planning to watch. I passed on the first & the VP because there's no chance of the debates changing my vote away from Clinton. There's similarly no chance with this one, either. However, I'm more concerned about watching how the moderators and the audience conduct themselves, if only for the sake of being able to discuss this with people who stick their heads in the sand on this election. It's not like we have a shortage of those.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:06 PM on October 9, 2016

So Trump picked the "salt the Earth" response to this week's news? Such temperament!
posted by drezdn at 5:06 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

So is anyone seriously going to watch this one?

I have to pick up my wife from work right when it starts, I'm not sure I can in good conscious subject her to this one. She usually only reads the after coverage. She's much smarter than me.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:06 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Fuck you, Donald Trump. FUCK YOU
posted by sallybrown at 5:06 PM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

Instead of watching the debate, I'm going to sir in a dark room and think about how my life sucks and everything is my fault. I think that will be healthier for my depression.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:06 PM on October 9, 2016 [14 favorites]

"@MarkBurnettTV He makes whatever makes money. I know so much about him. Wasn't worth going after him until now. Look out, Mark." --@kurteichenwald

Eichenwald really took the gloves off, not unreasonably, after a Trump supporter tried to cause him to have a seizure.
posted by zachlipton at 5:07 PM on October 9, 2016 [18 favorites]

Donald Trump concludes his 'debate prep' by appearing with Bill Clinton accusers
posted by homunculus at 5:07 PM on October 9, 2016

He's telegraphed this attack since before the first debate, when Flowers was saying she would sit in front during the first debate. Yeah, Trump is going supernova, but it's a very obvious angle of attack. I'm fairly certain Clinton anticipated this possibility.

The only real surprise is I thought this would have been saved for the third debate, but I guess with everything that's happened this week he's moving up the time table.
posted by FJT at 5:07 PM on October 9, 2016

I feel like a punch is getting thrown tonight in the audience, and Geraldo gets hit by a chair.
posted by drezdn at 5:08 PM on October 9, 2016

This is disgusting. This is not about the women. This is Trump exploiting women's pain to cause pain to a woman to humiliate her. This is misogyny.
posted by sallybrown at 5:08 PM on October 9, 2016 [99 favorites]

any good live streams available for us int. viewers?
posted by Foci for Analysis at 5:08 PM on October 9, 2016

I also believe Clinton is going to win this election but I just can't do this debate
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:08 PM on October 9, 2016

This is blatantly NOT PRESIDENTIAL MATERIAL, as Springer said, Trump should be on his show, not in the presidential debate.
posted by Oyéah at 5:09 PM on October 9, 2016

One almost... almost feels sorry for Mark Burnett now that Kurt Eichenwald's gaze has fallen upon him.
posted by Justinian at 5:09 PM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

Would Trump ever have done this to a man he was running against? Ask yourselves that.

I hope Paul Ryan is proud of himself.
posted by sallybrown at 5:09 PM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

that there may be some legitimate claims now, or they wouldn't be doing this at this late date

I highly doubt the timing of this political sideshow has anything to do with how much credibility she believes the accusers. She may or may not believe one or more of them, but after so many years, there's no reason for her to alter that belief based on the fact that they're showing up in service of Trump's desperate Hail Mary.
posted by tonycpsu at 5:09 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

the woman who dismissed their claims of rape and sexual harassment is now positioning herself as a believer of all women's claims, and that has got to be an ugly, ugly feel.

Uh, the man they are working with and sitting next to has raped and sexually harassed women himself.
posted by cashman at 5:09 PM on October 9, 2016 [35 favorites]

Stunterbating? Stuntbating? Stuntderping? Trumpbating? Not sure what to call this, but it's not debating.
posted by ryoshu at 5:09 PM on October 9, 2016

Is there going to be a new thread for the debate, or shall I hunker down and keep this RAM-heavy tab open?
posted by tclark at 5:09 PM on October 9, 2016

Yeah. I thought I was going to give it a shot but with this new info I can't. Too damn triggering to be honest and I'm already in tears. It's like he the fucking pinnicle of every shit stain of man that I have ever had the non-pleasure to deal with all rolled into one.
posted by Jalliah at 5:09 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

after a Trump supporter tried to cause him to have a seizure.

wait, what??
posted by indubitable at 5:10 PM on October 9, 2016

So the Clinton campaign has issued an official statement, which I can't link directly, because I've only got a picture in a tweet. It says:

We're not surprised that Donald Trump continues his destructive race to the bottom. Hillary Clinton understands the opportunity in this town hall to talk to voters on stage and in the audience about the issues that matter to them, and this stunt doesn't change that. If Donald Trump doesn't see that, that's his loss. As always, she's prepared to handle whatever Donald Trump throws her way.

I think she should acknowledge it enough to say that it's a stunt that is below the dignity of the event, and then proceed to answer questions and talk about issues.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:10 PM on October 9, 2016 [18 favorites]

I'm watching. I'm 100% on board. She's got this.
posted by Sophie1 at 5:10 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

HRC on Facebook: Tonight is my second debate with Donald Trump. Before I take the stage, I need to know you’re with me. hrc.io/DonateTonight

I want to be very clear about one thing: I am ready to debate Donald Trump.

Particularly after this week, let me assure you that I have no intention of allowing him to hijack this debate, this election, or this country with his divisive rhetoric about people or groups of people he doesn't like.

The issues at stake in this election are of dire importance for millions of American families. We owe those families real plans and ideas for how to make their lives better—that’s what I’ll talk about on stage tonight, and that’s what I’ll fight for in this campaign and as president.

Tonight, I’ll make my case to millions of Americans. If you’re with me, chip in now, and let’s head into the final 29 days of this campaign the strongest we’ve ever been: hrc.io/DonateTonight
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:10 PM on October 9, 2016 [16 favorites]

So I've had a big volunteer day today for my local congressional race (Luann Bennett for Va 10th district!) and I got to talk with people who are a whole lot more clued-in with Virginia politics. There are two interesting takeaways:

1) The GOP candidate for the next governors race will likely be a Trump/non-Trump referendum as the race is shaping up between dirtbag Corey Stewart (described by the Washington Post as Trump's Virginia Mini Me who defended the crotch grabber comments as Trump acting "like a frat boy, as a lot of guys do") and Ed Gillespie who has stuck his neck out only the slightest bit by saying "Donald Trump’s recorded comments are incredibly offensive and demeaning. All people deserve to be treated with dignity and respect".

2) Should Hillary Clinton win, Governor McAuliffe will appoint someone to serve in Tim Kaine's senate seat for about a year until a special election in 2017 to elect a senator to serve for another year until that seat is again up for election again in 2018. That special election is going to be a shitshow because it's in an off-election year cycle for the senate, and whether or not that seat is close to tipping the balance it will be the only senate election of the year it's assumed that there will be a ton of outside money coming in.

There are two candidates that are believed to be positioning themselves for that seat on the GOP side. The first is long-time Clinton hater Barbara Comstock, she is the incumbent Va 10th district congressperson that Luann Bennett is challenging. She has called for Trump to delete his campaign after the crotch grabber tape; but it's pretty safe politically for her to do so, this district one of the few spots that Rubio won in the Va primary, Trump support is pretty soft here. So now I see my volunteer time an effort to both win a house seat for Bennett and the democrats, but a chance to derail Comstock's senate aspirations.

The other likely senate candidate is Carly Fiorina, remember Ted Cruz's running mate? She moved to Va after she lost her senate bid in California and her political aspirations are alive and kicking like her imaginary video fetus. I have to admit that I hold a serious grudge against her because I was laid off from my first real job when I worked for a company that was a major partner with HP, the company that paid her a fortune to run into the ground, so I can hardly be objective. Someone showed me how easy it was to google up a video tour of her house because her real estate agent was super zealous about promoting the sale. While I know that the rich lead different lives than the rest of us, and I don't usually judge people on their success, but because it's someone whose business acumen derailed my life for a decade, I'm kinda pissed that she lives in a house with both a separate wet and dry sauna. Plus, that she has a full bathroom in her laundry room that appears to be bigger than my bedroom. Who has a bathroom in their laundry room? Carly Fiorina, that's who.

3) and bonus takeaway three is the democratic bench in Va seems pretty shallow if clued-in politically active democrats have nothing better to do than talk about possible Virginia GOP candidates. And that's how I'm getting sucked into volunteering in the next election cycle.
posted by peeedro at 5:11 PM on October 9, 2016 [14 favorites]

This article in the WaPo says that Trump's followers are looking for "humility and contrition." Well, since "humility and contrition" are not even in the same universe as Donald, I think his followers are going to be disappointed. (I find it hard to believe he has followers left, but racism and misogyny are a hell of a drug...)
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 5:11 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

I wouldn't blame the women for sitting in the front row. Trump is taking advantage of their emotions, but that emotion is no doubt genuine.

I'm sorry they've suffered; I hope they're doing better. They need to think about the fact that they are allying themselves with and befriending and trusting a man who has publicly admitted to sexually abusing and degrading women.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:11 PM on October 9, 2016 [31 favorites]

I'm tentatively watching, but with cute animal videos queued at the ready in case I need to quickly escape and wash the taste out of my mouth.
posted by p3t3 at 5:12 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

YouTube is recommending livestreams for the international viewers
posted by peppermind at 5:13 PM on October 9, 2016

after a Trump supporter tried to cause him to have a seizure.

wait, what??

He wrote about it here the other day: How Donald Trump Supporters Attack Journalists
posted by zachlipton at 5:13 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

The irony that Trump is running against a woman, (the FIRST woman president!) is delicious. And she's going to hand him ass..
posted by angrybear at 5:13 PM on October 9, 2016

after a Trump supporter tried to cause him to have a seizure.

wait, what??

How Donald Trump Supporters Attack Journalists
posted by zakur at 5:14 PM on October 9, 2016

Partial transcript of what Clinton's accusers said at the Trump photo-op.

At the risk of sounding like I'm dismissive of their claims or their experiences (I'm not): these statements to me sound like a general denial of reality about Trump. I read that Buzzfeed piece on Broaddrick and that gave me a lot to think about, as it made her sound pretty credible to me, but this right here undermined a lot of that for me.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:14 PM on October 9, 2016 [8 favorites]

So right now the twitter media commentary is that Trump knows he's going to lose, and this is about inflicting maximum damage and setting up his post-loss right-wing media career. Which is probably not the takeaway he wants from the debate.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:15 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

The other likely senate candidate is Carly Fiorina, remember Ted Cruz's running mate? She moved to Va after she lost her senate bid in California and her political aspirations are alive and kicking like her imaginary video fetus.

Oh gross. Thanks for the heads up.
posted by indubitable at 5:16 PM on October 9, 2016

A&C- who says it isn't?
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:17 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

@kdittmar
"Let's remember: Trump has ridiculed these women but now uses them for political purposes, which further proves he has no respect for them."
posted by chris24 at 5:17 PM on October 9, 2016 [22 favorites]

The latest Trump pool report, per @MichaelCBender
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:17 PM on October 9, 2016

I feel so bad for Hillary you guys. She's someone who has wanted to be President so long that she spent time her senior year of high school organizing a mock Presidential debate. I don't know what was going through her head back then, but I'm sure as hell it wasn't "what do I say if people accusing my husband of sex crimes are in the front row?" Nobody deserves this.
posted by zachlipton at 5:17 PM on October 9, 2016 [24 favorites]

Stunterbating? Stuntbating? Stuntderping? Trumpbating? Not sure what to call this, but it's not debating.

Reality television, just how Trump likes it.
posted by bonje at 5:17 PM on October 9, 2016

This is why i always thought that of all the oppo the Clinton campaign has on Trump, they'd stear clear of his obvious womanizing and general rapiness and i do not think the Access Hollywood leak came from them. They had to know this is how this would go down.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:18 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

I want to make some breezy "I thought I got some evens back, but now I've lost them" joke, but I just can't. I watched that garbage on facebook and I am just aghast. Aghast at this vulgar clown and his latest actions and his continued chutzpah to even exist on the same planet as me.

I am watching this tonight. And I know it is going to piss me off repeatedly. But I am watching it. Because she is ready. This will not throw her. She is going to brush this little stunt off and continue to humiliate the pile of shit running against her. And it will feel good.

And then I'm going to go give money to the PEC High Impact Races fund. Because Hillary Clinton is going to be our next president, and now it's time to rub ground glass and battery acid into the injuries the GOP are dealing themselves by making sure we take the fucking senate back, too. They put this homunculus on stage, he's tearing them apart, and we can finish the job.

For fuck's sake.
posted by jammer at 5:18 PM on October 9, 2016 [12 favorites]

@GlennThrush

I wouldn't have reported on the Kathy Shelton case if I knew @realDonaldTrump would use a tormented rape victim as political prop. Sickening
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:19 PM on October 9, 2016 [21 favorites]

Well, it's late here, and I'm going to bed. When I wake up it will all be done, and you can all tell me about it. I just wanted to say that I hope HRC gets to talk about all the stuff that a President actually does - domestic and foreign policy, the economy, defence and all that jazz. In fact that's all she should talk about. The stuff she can actually do (even if we might disagree with her approach to doing it - she would probably have been the only grown-up in the room even if Trump hadn't bothered to turn up).

Nah, it's going to be legendary vaudeville isn't it?

Nighty night.
posted by Grangousier at 5:19 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Zoe Williams: What happens when the alpha males run politics? Donald Trump. His misogyny is shocking, yet predictable. This is what happens when women’s voices aren’t heard
posted by homunculus at 5:19 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

There are two candidates that are believed to be positioning themselves for that seat on the GOP side. The first is long-time Clinton hater Barbara Comstoc

Oh god.

The other likely senate candidate is Carly Fiorina

Wait, what? Jesusfuck. Welp, guess I'll be looking for volunteer opportunities in VA. Both of those options are shudder inducting.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:19 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Nobody deserves this.

Hillary has rehearsed every variation on it you can imagine 50 times and has a razor sharp response for every possibility. Debate prep FTW, Donald ego 0.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:20 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

With all due respect Glenn Thrush, he's been using grieving parents as political props for months so...
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:21 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

You know the scariest thing to me? A coworker - a nice liberal with two young kids who works for a social justice nonprofit - said over drinks the other day that Trump's candidacy makes her wonder if democracy is such a hot idea.

If Trump wins, that notion will only become more prevalent among liberals.
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:21 PM on October 9, 2016 [8 favorites]

@ananavarro
Should Donald Trump drop out of the race? Yes. He should drop out of the human race.

He is an animal. Apologies to animals.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:22 PM on October 9, 2016 [19 favorites]

HRC on Facebook: Tonight is my second debate with Donald Trump. Before I take the stage, I need to know you’re with me. hrc.io/DonateTonight

Aaaaaaaaand I finally broke down and donated. I'M WITH YOU, HILLS!
posted by longtime_lurker at 5:22 PM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

Overheard: A reporter in St. Louis saying: "Trump is using these women as human shields."
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:22 PM on October 9, 2016 [47 favorites]

I'm not worried. Even if it's an utter shitshow, who is going to come out of it thinking "fuck yeah Donald Trump"? I'm going in thinking "fuck no Donald Trump", and unless Hillary rips off her mask to reveal that she is Literally Hitler, I'm expecting that everyone else is going to come out of the debate thinking the same way. Donald Trump is gross, he's a loser, he's an embarrassment and he's running the considerable risk that people will see him being gross and start to feel sympathy for Hillary.
posted by Frowner at 5:22 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Don't worry folks, Scott Baio says every man talks like that [real]
posted by drezdn at 5:23 PM on October 9, 2016

My only worry right now is that the moderators will ask Clinton to address these women directly at the debate or pull some other drama-for-drama's-sake shitshow move. But past that I have no doubts in Clinton herself.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:24 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Trump's candidacy makes her wonder if democracy is such a hot idea.

I've been thinking that since Brexit, tbh.
posted by asteria at 5:24 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

I understand there’s no actual way to do so, but all the same somebody should pull the plug on this debate.
posted by gerryblog at 5:24 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Yeah, there's no way he's going to win. At this point, it's just about how much damage he does on the way down.
posted by corb at 5:24 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Remember when the highlights of debates were lockboxes, malarky and people forgetting poland? I miss those days.
posted by drezdn at 5:24 PM on October 9, 2016 [12 favorites]

Well, this latest twist has convinced me to make a blanket fort in the attic to hide in during the debate. I have Trader Joe's graham crackers, scotch and this thread for company.
posted by Biblio at 5:24 PM on October 9, 2016 [11 favorites]

Chuck Todd ‏@chucktodd
Not sure if this pre debate event featuring Bill Clinton accusers is reassuring those leaders that Trump will show contrition.

Keith Olbermann ‏@KeithOlbermann
YA THINK?

Holy shit Keith. Going in with guns blazing here.
posted by Talez at 5:25 PM on October 9, 2016 [21 favorites]

Clinton just tweeted a link to a video of Michelle Obama saying "when they go low, we go high." I think she has this. I mean, I'm scared shitless, but I actually think she'll do fine, and she will look presidential while Trump will look like a desperate bully. She seems to be one of those people who performs better under stress.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:25 PM on October 9, 2016 [33 favorites]

Like, I didn't know if the women would go for it, but I sure as shit knew he'd try something like this. I mean, he almost did at the last debate just to retaliate against the presence of a dude richer than him in the audience. He's pure human garbage, this was predictable.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:25 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Donald Trump's guests include people who claim to have been harassed and assaulted by someone who is not running for office.

Clinton's guests at the debate include a member of Little Rock Nine, a Vietnam vet, and someone fighting breast cancer.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:25 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

unless Hillary rips off her mask to reveal that she is Literally Hitler,

i don't know - maybe adolf's changed his mind on some things ...
posted by pyramid termite at 5:25 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

I talked with my mom earlier tonight, and when I told her that Trump was planning on discussing the accusations against Bill Clinton (this was before the little press conference), she was aghast. "Trump is going to attack the victim?" she wondered -- referring to Hillary, as the cheated-on spouse. I can't imagine this going well for him.
posted by dhens at 5:25 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

> Are you not entertained?

Yes. I am not entertained.
posted by bukvich at 5:26 PM on October 9, 2016 [24 favorites]

Holy shit Keith. Going in with guns blazing here.

I, uh, wasn't aware Olbermann had a low volume setting.
posted by zachlipton at 5:26 PM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

One of the comments on the "psychotic break" tweet tentatively suggests that maybe the debate catastrophe will lead to improved mental health funding.

Maybe Americans really are optimists at heart.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 5:26 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

He is an animal. Apologies to animals.

Ellen Barkin: As usual, Donald Trump has gotten himself in trouble and as usual, like an animal in a cage, all he knows how to do is throw his own feces.
posted by effbot at 5:27 PM on October 9, 2016 [17 favorites]

This is grotesque.
posted by kyrademon at 5:27 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

My only worry right now is that the moderators will ask Clinton to address these women directly at the debate or pull some other drama-for-drama's-sake shitshow move. But past that I have no doubts in Clinton herself.

I sure hope not. I don't know Martha that well, but I certainly expect more from Anderson Cooper and wouldn't see him doing something like that.
posted by cashman at 5:28 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Donald Trump is about to have his Rick Lazio moment. This will humanize Clinton in a way that six months of positive ads never could.
posted by one_bean at 5:28 PM on October 9, 2016 [14 favorites]

Joy Reid: "This is not electoral politics... this is rage politics."
posted by tonycpsu at 5:29 PM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

Oh, I think the moderators are going to be pissed that they have involuntarily been pulled into Trump's massive stunt here. I think they're going to shut him down at every turn.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:29 PM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

I think everyone's aghast enough, nobody wants to be a part of this.
posted by corb at 5:29 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Mod note: One deleted; let's not be speculating about actual assassination scenarios please.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 5:30 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

unless Hillary rips off her mask to reveal that she is Literally Hitler, I'm expecting that everyone else is going to come out of the debate thinking the same way.

You're failing to allow for the existence of a substantial body of people who already think that Clinton is indeed Literally Hitler, that her supporters are worthless, weak-minded, lying, mealy-mouthed hypocrites, and that anything Trump says to annoy those people is proof that he really is the man who can Make America Great Again.

Complacency is the only thing that could put Trump in the White House. Get out there and vote.
posted by flabdablet at 5:30 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

As a cheapskate AND a procrastinator, I finally broke down and donated to Hillary for Prez five minutes ago. It was the only way I could think of to express support at this shitty time.
posted by puddledork at 5:30 PM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

It's like we're going back to the 1990s, but instead of bankrupting his casino, Trump is bankrupting American politics.
posted by Dr. Zira at 5:30 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

For those who were talking about talking about the election to your kids way up thread, my husband and I were just discussing how we have to make sure the 7- and 5-year-olds are in bed before the debate because we DEFINITELY don't want them seeing any of Trump.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:30 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

J'oy Reid: "This is not electoral politics... this is rage politics."'

Chill. I mean, Hillary is literally a diplomat. Literally.
posted by klarck at 5:31 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

I thought it was pie-in-the-sky but now I think Pence might actually back out. This is too much.
posted by gerryblog at 5:31 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

> Well, this latest twist has convinced me to make a blanket fort in the attic to hide in during the debate. I have Trader Joe's graham crackers, scotch and this thread for company.

Ha! We are on vacation with our two best friends and we are also going to make a blanket fort, but we are going to watch the debate - like on TV and everything - and we are going to have popcorn and cocktails and shouting! And hiding in the fort. The only downside is that because we are on vacation, we have no cats to forcibly hug cuddle.
posted by rtha at 5:31 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

I've been pretty angry for the last few months but I feel like I've broken through to a new dimension of angriness because I am crying actual tears of rage and shaking.

I would suggest that if you want to donate money tonight in a fit of rage, it might ultimately be more productive right now to give to people like Patrick Murphy running against Marco Rubio or other Democrats who are in tight races trying to unseat Republican reps and senators. Trump is about to stick a fork in himself; he is done. We could take it all.
posted by gatorae at 5:31 PM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

Depending on how this and the next week goes, the Commission on Presidential Debates should consider cancelling the October 19th debate. Because if this fool Trump is still around then, I can't even imagine what country-embarrassing and terrible shenanigans he'll try to pull with Chris Wallace as moderator.
posted by cashman at 5:31 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

@RealDonaldTrump
My team of deplorables will be taking over my twitter account for tonight's #debate

So that's a thing that's going to happen.
posted by bibliowench at 5:32 PM on October 9, 2016 [10 favorites]

Unbelievably timely comic from Oglaf.
(Warning: this one is cool, but other strips in this series are totally NSFW)
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:32 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

It makes me physically ill to think that Chelsea Clinton will have to sit anywhere near Trump's guests.
posted by sallybrown at 5:32 PM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

NBC News (Hallie Jackson): someone close to the Trump campaign asking "What the hell are we doing?" upon hearing the news about the press conference.
posted by zachlipton at 5:32 PM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

"mommy, why are they yelling about cats?"
posted by pyramid termite at 5:32 PM on October 9, 2016 [5 favorites]

New thread?
posted by Sophie1 at 5:32 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

So here's the other thing: I think the audience is going to skew female, because a lot of guys are going to be watching the football game. I don't know what kind of difference that makes, but my hunch is that Trump's stunt isn't going to play well with women. It's one thing to bring this up, but it's another thing to bring this up in this particular way, in this particular context.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:32 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Also, spend less of your Internet time in here. Outside the walls of moderated civilization at Metafilter, there's a significant fraction of the American population that's more than willing to accept Breitbart as an authoratative source of truth. These people are your neighbors, and this year they will be at the voting booth.
posted by flabdablet at 5:33 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

I know I say this about everything, but tonight really does feel like something out of a Don Delillo novel. But darker.
posted by Flashman at 5:33 PM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

Hallie Jackson on MSNBC saying big Trump supporters are basically saying WTF and not happy with this move.
posted by chris24 at 5:33 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

There's a football game and playoff baseball, you just might be right.
posted by drezdn at 5:34 PM on October 9, 2016

This obscenity prompted a donation from me as well. I cannot wait for this piece of shit to be taken apart by a brilliant, competent woman.
posted by erratic meatsack at 5:34 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Keeping it 1600 is live
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:34 PM on October 9, 2016

In a way Trump reverting to form comfortds me. I was afraid suicide by secret service detachment might become a thing
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 5:34 PM on October 9, 2016

It's like Trump watched a video of the famous Mccarthy "have you no shame" moment and thought Joe's response should have been "fuck you, of course I have no shame. "
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:34 PM on October 9, 2016 [22 favorites]

I don't even know what it means, that he's turning over his twitter to his "Deplorables".
posted by corb at 5:35 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Less than half an hour to go. In retrospect, picking up some dramamine might have been a good idea.
posted by uosuaq at 5:35 PM on October 9, 2016

New story just out on USA Today:

Trump, companies accused of mistreating women in at least 20 lawsuits
posted by chris24 at 5:36 PM on October 9, 2016 [12 favorites]

Twitch plays Trump's Twitter
posted by neonrev at 5:36 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

So this is the individual that roughly 40% of the electorate wants to put in charge of our military.

Wow!
posted by vuron at 5:36 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

I'm trying to get my head around but him and the people around him are thinking? Do they honestly think this is going to make him a winner? Like really and truly? Are they in denial? What is the strategy? I mean I know these people have shown over and over how horrible and just plain stupid they are (or at least stupid if they are wanting to actually win this election) but then it just gets more stupid and yet again I'm wondering what the hell I'm missing because it gets even more stupid.
posted by Jalliah at 5:36 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

I don't even know what it means, that he's turning over his twitter to his "Deplorables".

doesn't he have to pull down his pants first?
posted by pyramid termite at 5:37 PM on October 9, 2016

@RVAwonk
In 1998, #Trump called Bill Clinton a "victim" of "terrible, unattractive women". Tonight, he's exploiting those women for his own gain.
posted by chris24 at 5:38 PM on October 9, 2016 [9 favorites]

Comic relief for anyone who needs it right now.
posted by tonycpsu at 5:38 PM on October 9, 2016

Note @JonLemire's face during the Clinton accuser presser. Note Bannon's smile. Event in one screenshot summed up.

Sopan Deb is a fucking trooper and should get the runner up for Pulitzer.
posted by Talez at 5:38 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Debate FPP!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:38 PM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

The Election post is up. Thanks ChurchHatesTucker.
posted by cashman at 5:38 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'm going to spend the next 20 minutes reflecting on the Psalm 23 and the prayer attributed to St Francis. That's the only way I'm going to be able to hold it together.
posted by humanfont at 5:39 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

Do they honestly think this is going to make him a winner?

No, this is to humiliate Hillary, so Donald can feel like a man again instead of a loser who loses to a girl. Has nothing to do with winning.
posted by sallybrown at 5:39 PM on October 9, 2016 [25 favorites]

I am at Best Bar In The World, my laptop on the bartop in front of me. I have two TVs in front of me, tuned into CNN this time (last time it was on Fox). The bartender just dropped off my cranberry margarita, and I've got MeFi in one tab and my own blog in the other one.

Bring it.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:39 PM on October 9, 2016 [7 favorites]

Sorry, I ain't sorry
I ain't thinking 'bout you
I ain't thinking 'bout you
Sorry, I ain't sorry
I ain't thinking 'bout you
I ain't thinking 'bout you

Middle fingers up, put them hands high
Wave it in his face, tell him, boy, bye
Tell him, boy, bye, boy, bye
Middle fingers up, I ain't thinking 'bout you

(TV off. Beyonce time.)
posted by soundproof at 5:39 PM on October 9, 2016 [12 favorites]

From the Keeping It 1600 stream, previewing the debate: "a fucking clown show."

This is the Roger Stone moment, the moment that the GOP id goes on full display, and we'll see which elected Republicans are willing to repudiate the deplorables who have wanted this to happen for 20 years.
posted by holgate at 5:40 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Do they honestly think this is going to make him a winner?

I think they thought they could control him, and are now finding out the hard way that they cannot.
posted by corb at 5:40 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

hey, just a point to make here. you can stream the debate on UTube if your interested. it outta be interesting to say the least. Have fun
posted by beemerboxer at 5:40 PM on October 9, 2016

then it just gets more stupid and yet again I'm wondering what the hell I'm missing because it gets even more stupid.

What you're missing is that a substantial fraction of the American population (a) would rather be told what to think by a demagogue than to do any actual thinking themselves (b) is completely capable of mistaking being told that they are thinking for themselves for actually doing so.
posted by flabdablet at 5:40 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

And yes, this is an ongoing act of abuse from someone who still believes he has impunity.
posted by holgate at 5:43 PM on October 9, 2016 [6 favorites]

They've been promoting it as some kind of cozy lil' town hall aww shucks debate format with real average working Janes and Joes, so why does the room have to look like a Grand National Hall for the High Loyalist Ceremony to award the Star of the Iron Cross?

As Tim Kaine might say: definitely some dystopian decorating, dudes.
posted by rokusan at 5:44 PM on October 9, 2016 [3 favorites]

hey, just a point to make here. you can stream the debate on UTube if your interested. it outta be interesting to say the least. Have fun

I believe the sidebar chat is disabled for this debate.
posted by Windigo at 5:44 PM on October 9, 2016

You can watch the debate streaming on C-Span's website.

I feel physically nauseous about watching this. How Trump is using these women, how he wants to humiliate Hillary, ugh, it's all so disgusting. Hillary is a much stronger person than I am.
posted by airish at 5:46 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

Just wandered in to point out.that Micael Moore presciently predicted President Romney's election in 2012 when few others made that correct call.
posted by y2karl at 5:55 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Home from a quick day-trip to see the old mum in mid-Michigan. Driving thru rural areas with their roadside signs: "Pumpkins." "Octoberfest Next Weekend." "Vote Cheeto Hitler." (I made up a new driving game: See how many Trump signs you can give the finger to in 2 hrs.)

First I was angry. Then sad. Then angry again. Especially after on the way home listening to a public radio program about poverty in America.
We really cannot overstate how much is at stake in this election.

And then I get home awhile ago and am sickened reading of vulgar talking yam's horrid plan. The rest of you may be out of Can't Evens, but I don't think I could ever run out of Fuck Yous for him.

But I repeat, We really cannot overstate how much is at stake in this election. Courage, my dear ones. Courage.
posted by NorthernLite at 5:58 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Buckle up. It begins.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:00 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

No handshake.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:05 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

No handshake!
posted by ian1977 at 6:05 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

OMG FIRST QUESTION IS ABOUT BEING A ROLE MODEL OMG OMG YAAASSSSSSSSSS
posted by Sara C. at 6:06 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

debate thread is here
posted by LobsterMitten at 6:06 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

A reminder: if you aren't watching this along an undecided voter or an actual Trump supporter, you cannot gauge Mrs. Clinton's performance.
posted by ocschwar at 6:09 PM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Sorry if this is a repeat, but I don't have time to scroll through the last 500 posts.

Where can I find the debate on line later on this evening or tomorrow? I prefer C-SPAN, no talking heads, but will grateful for your recommendations whatever they are.

AND

Thanks for all your contributions to this thread and this site. And many, many, many, many, to ymany thanks to our outstanding mods!
posted by LeftMyHeartInSanFrancisco at 6:21 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

C-Span link here: https://www.c-span.org/presidentialDebate/?debate=second
posted by mdonley at 6:46 PM on October 9, 2016

This is the 2578th comment. I have rarely seen such a powerful response from the site.
posted by One Hand Slowclapping at 7:21 AM on October 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

The debate thread is at 90 percent of that in a quarter of the time.
posted by Etrigan at 7:31 AM on October 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

Utah could be blue? What the fuck is going on?

Utah is a one-party state, so the one party is required to supply their own opposition, or else it leaves the door open. They can afford to do this because they can't lose unless they don't.
posted by Brian B. at 7:38 AM on October 10, 2016

Trump is the rapist and Pence is the judge that let's him off...
posted by judson at 10:41 AM on October 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

How the fuck did we ever get to this place where an asshole like him is a candidate for presidency?
posted by stormpooper at 8:03 AM on October 11, 2016 [1 favorite]

Next/Debate Thread
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:12 PM on October 11, 2016

Calling it now that this whole thing ends like The Two Towers, with Donald Trump---his power broken, but his tongue still sharp---high up in Trump Tower shouting curses down at a magnanimous president-elect Hillary Clinton. And then, with a scream, Paul Ryan plunges a dagger into Trump's back and they both topple to the earth below.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 10:56 PM on October 11, 2016 [5 favorites]