Gotta Have Some Faith in the Sound

May 3, 2023 3:20 PM

The 2023 inductees to the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame have been announced.

Performer Category
Kate Bush
Sheryl Crow
Missy Elliott
George Michael
Willie Nelson
Rage Against the Machine
The Spinners

Musical Influence Award
DJ Kool Herc
Link Wray

Musical Excellence Award
Chaka Khan
Al Kooper
Bernie Taupin

Ahmet Ertegun Award
Don Cornelius

The induction ceremony is scheduled for November 3rd at the Barclays Center in Brooklyn, NY.

posted by May Kasahara (50 comments total)

That's a pretty good class of inductees!
posted by tavella at 3:25 PM on May 3, 2023 [6 favorites]

I have zero argument with any of these inductees. I'm glad Willie is getting his flowers while he's still around. George was taken from us so much too soon it still hurts to think about. Missy Elliott is the first female rapper, and that's a big deal. I'm surprised Kate wasn't there already. Sheryl's late career shouldn't cancel out her early career. Rage and The Spinners are an interesting rounding out, from two far ends of the spectrum.

And Bernie! I'm so glad to see him get in to be with Elton!
posted by hippybear at 3:28 PM on May 3, 2023 [6 favorites]

Ha ha, I've been scooped! I had this article from Variety marked in my browser as something to post when I got back from work, oh well.

The selection of three women among the seven 2023 inductees may help further assuage concerns that the hall has been too slow in electing female artists, as charged by Courtney Love in a much-disseminated column. Last year’s class of 2022 was the first in which a majority of nominees, four out of seven, were either women or female-fronted bands.

posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 3:33 PM on May 3, 2023 [3 favorites]

I'm glad Willie is getting his flowers while he's still around.

The induction doesn't happen until November! Now you gotta run outside, turn around three times and spit to ward off the bad omen.

Oh, and I'll go back to my recurring refrain of INDUCT THEY MIGHT BE GIANTS YOU COWARDS.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 3:35 PM on May 3, 2023 [30 favorites]

I have zero argument with any of these inductees.

Agreed; it's an excellent lineup. The induction I'm happiest about this time around is Herc's. He's a giant of hip-hop, the inventor of the breakbeat, and really should've been inducted sooner.
posted by May Kasahara at 3:40 PM on May 3, 2023 [4 favorites]

Missy in ahead of Queen Latifah as the first female rapper is an interesting look.

Joy Division/New Order and Iron Maiden were both on the fan ballot, and I think they should both be in the Hall by now, but I don't have any issue with any of the people they're inducting.

(A Tribe Called Quest came in dead-last in fan ballot votes, which hurt my heart but wasn't really a big surprise.)
posted by box at 3:41 PM on May 3, 2023 [4 favorites]

I’m kind of bummed out that Sheryl Crow was selected over Cyndi Lauper or Joy Division/New Order, both of whom were genuinely innovative. Sheryl Crow is fine! She has a decent body of work, but when you compare her to Cyndi or New Order…
posted by pxe2000 at 3:41 PM on May 3, 2023 [22 favorites]

I'm glad Willie is getting his flowers while he's still around.

The induction doesn't happen until November! Now you gotta run outside, turn around three times and spit to ward off the bad omen.

Cue up the Willie Nelson meme
posted by chavenet at 3:43 PM on May 3, 2023 [2 favorites]

Willie did just, like a few days ago, have a gigantic birthday bash at the Hollywood Bowl. There are clips all over YouTube.
posted by hippybear at 3:46 PM on May 3, 2023 [2 favorites]

ctrl+f "They Might"
*error tone*
*click*

Seriously, though, these are all strong candidates, and you could have told me some of them were there already.
posted by Countess Elena at 4:12 PM on May 3, 2023

I can't quibble with any of the selections, and my heart's choice of Joy Division/New Order will certainly get their day, but for some reason I honestly feel like Iron Maiden got shafted.
posted by tclark at 4:16 PM on May 3, 2023 [5 favorites]

Haha Tom Morello's PR campaign pays off!
posted by muddgirl at 4:19 PM on May 3, 2023 [1 favorite]

The selection of three women among the seven 2023 inductees may help further assuage concerns that the hall has been too slow in electing female artists

Well, good news everyone! With Chaka Khan selected it means they've now inducted every woman.

(Sorry, couldn't resist, she's a longtime favourite of mine.)
posted by hangashore at 5:00 PM on May 3, 2023 [10 favorites]

Missy Elliot!!!!!! That makes me so happy.
posted by Peach at 5:09 PM on May 3, 2023 [3 favorites]

Well, at least Link Wray finally got in (I assume "Musical Influence" is how Dick Dale and Captain Beefheart will eventually get in, if they ever do).

+1 to what pxe2000 said about Sheryl Crow being selected over Cyndi Lauper and Joy Division/New Order (not to mention getting in before Siouxsie, the B-52's, and the New York Dolls).
posted by gtrwolf at 5:44 PM on May 3, 2023 [12 favorites]

Also, if an appearance on Stranger Things gave Kate Bush enough momentum to finally get in, maybe there will actually be hope for the Cramps (who were used for both ST and Wednesday) come the 2024 nominations.
posted by gtrwolf at 5:57 PM on May 3, 2023 [4 favorites]

From that Morello interview:

Rage Against the Machine is like the ring in Lord of the Rings. It drives men mad. It drives journalists mad. It drives record-industry people mad. They want it. They want the thing, and they’re driven mad.
posted by armoir from antproof case at 6:30 PM on May 3, 2023 [2 favorites]

Flew out to LA for Willie's 90th birthday celebration. Great two nights of some great artists playing Willie's catalogue. Great eclectic list of performers.

Loved his two sons playing with him. Snoop and Willie with the duet of Roll Me Up and Smoke Me When I Die. Keith Richards looking and sounding best I have seen him in decades. Warren Haynes doing Midnight Rider. Neil Young and Stephen Stills rocking together. Nora Jones was terrific both nights. Chris Stapleton the first night. Bob Weird being average Bob. Sheryl Crow sounded great. Tear jerker moment when Kris Kristofferson came out and sang with Nora Jones.


I could go on. Happy birthday Willie!
posted by JohnnyGunn at 7:26 PM on May 3, 2023 [12 favorites]

Is there any chance...any chance at all...that we will get to see Kate Bush accept her award in person?

I mean...that would be...some word that conveys all the things....
posted by Chuffy at 7:46 PM on May 3, 2023 [2 favorites]

I've exhausted my arguments a long time ago that a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame should be focused on rock and roll, not on pop and folk and hip-hop, so I will let them rest for this occasion.

I have no problem with Willie, as early rock and country share many common bloodlines (as any rockabilly enthusiast will happily tell you) and outlaw country is a hell of a lot closer to the rock spirit than many nominees I could name.

But when #2, #3, #4 and #5 in the fan vote all get snubbed, and that includes Warren goddamned Zevon and Iron goddamned MAIDEN...

I can only presume that Maiden's open statement that "if we win, we don't care, and we certainly won't perform" didn't help, but _come on_.
posted by delfin at 8:14 PM on May 3, 2023 [8 favorites]

COP THAT SHIT, MISSY
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 8:37 PM on May 3, 2023 [3 favorites]

Huh. I'm genuinely shocked that Willie Nelson is only now being inducted. Nothing against Rage Against the Machine (I'm a fan) but it's weird that they're getting recognized the same year given the amount of time they've been around.
posted by brundlefly at 11:49 PM on May 3, 2023 [1 favorite]

I just... I'm sorry, Sheryl Crow isn't good and never has been except in that way of "almost all artists work incredibly hard even to produce mediocrity," and Joy Division/New Order still isn't being inducted this year. (Sometimes I can appreciate the artistry of musicians who aren't to my taste, and my tastes are frankly pretty broad. This isn't one of those cases. It's not just an embarrassment that she's getting the induction over JD/NO, it's an embarrassment that they didn't get around to inducting Kate Bush, a groundbreaking legend, until the same year as Sheryl Crow. Like, come on.)

Nice to see Kate, Willie, and George getting the honors, though.
posted by verbminx at 1:07 AM on May 4, 2023 [4 favorites]

Tom Morello has a good instagram post conveying Rage’s surprise over their induction. Hopefully they’ll piss off a whole new generation of “I CANT BELIEVE THEYRE COMMUNIST!” conservatives and centrists with their ceremony performance and general induction publicity.

Scott!! What music of mine were you a fan of that DIDN’T contain “political BS”? I need to know so I can delete it from the catalog.

Priceless.
posted by supercres at 1:21 AM on May 4, 2023 [4 favorites]

Sheryl Crow is great tho
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 3:46 AM on May 4, 2023

I mean it's bizarre to me that it took longer than 1985 or so to induct Kate Bush and it blows my mind that Iron Maiden's still not in, but let's not get crazy here
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 3:47 AM on May 4, 2023 [1 favorite]

(People become eligible for induction 25 years after their first record, so Kate Bush was first eligible 25 years after 'Wuthering Heights,' in 2003 #idontmaketherules)
posted by box at 5:02 AM on May 4, 2023

I was happy to see Al Kooper on the list.
posted by mikelieman at 5:57 AM on May 4, 2023 [3 favorites]

None of this matters without the MC5.
posted by AJaffe at 8:36 AM on May 4, 2023 [3 favorites]

I honestly don't even get why they have a nominating committee if they are letting in artists like Sheryl Crow and George Michael. Long careers of hits? Not really. Unique to their genre, or innovative? Not really. They are perfectly fine and have some great songs, but there are a lot of great songs out there. They should honestly have a rule that is something like "you got a #1 hit, you are in 25 years after" and a "platinum selling record?" also auto entry 25 years afterwards for the majority of artists, and then just go after the low-sellers with a nominating committee.
posted by The_Vegetables at 10:41 AM on May 4, 2023

? In the UK, George Michael had 7 #1 albums over a period of 27 years, along with 7 #1 singles and 16 more top ten hits. There's nothing odd about him being elected.
posted by tavella at 2:24 PM on May 4, 2023 [6 favorites]

They should honestly have a rule that is something like "you got a #1 hit, you are in 25 years after" and a "platinum selling record?" also auto entry 25 years afterwards

An incomplete list of platinum albums that are at least 25 years old (the RIAA makes it relatively easy to search for stuff like this):

Another Bad Creation - Coolin' at the Playground Ya Know
Baha Men - Who Let the Dogs Out
Big Bad Voodoo Daddy - Big Bad Voodoo Daddy
California Raisins - California Raisins
Insane Clown Posse - The Great Milenko
Kriss Kross - Da Bomb
Marky Mark & the Funky Bunch - Music for the People
Shaquille O'Neal - Shaq Diesel
Vonda Shepard - Songs from 'Ally McBeal'
Snow - 12 Inches of Snow

These might not all be first-ballot Hall of Famers.
posted by box at 3:32 PM on May 4, 2023 [5 favorites]

Lol I'm not even a fan of Sheryl Crow but people really want to have it both ways don't they. More rock and roll artists in the rock and roll hall of fame but not that rock and roll artist, she sucks. She won 9 Grammys writing her own songs and playing her own instruments, but it's girls music so it doesn't count.
posted by muddgirl at 4:14 PM on May 4, 2023 [5 favorites]

Tbf The Great Milenko was good enough for two platinum albums
posted by toodleydoodley at 7:16 PM on May 4, 2023

Rage is in. Devo is not. The end.
posted by readyfreddy at 12:32 AM on May 5, 2023 [2 favorites]

I really was not intending to reply to this again until I read that last sally.

Nah, Kate Bush is "a girl's music" too. So is Missy Elliott, who I love. There are plenty of female artists whose induction I'd support. Sheryl Crow isn't one of them! If you don't like "why is she getting in before Joy Division, lmao, YIKES" then you can shift it to "why is she getting in before Tori Amos?" or "why is she getting in before Courtney Love? The only possible case for Crow has already been made here: popularity within an industry award that is usually seen to be of dubious artistic value, decent record sales. Is she influential or interesting? Debatable.

(But at least THCBT was funny about it and didn't assume it was about misogyny, internalized or otherwise. It's about disliking a particular artist and their style. The one thing I can say for her is that for whatever reason, not sure about the details behind it, must assume that it was partly because she was seen as having enough mainstream appeal, the industry decided that she would be one of the x number of female artists allowed to be played on mainstream pop/soft-rock radio. Which, if you are not aware, was a thing: female artists were relegated to a small percentage of music played and usually only 2-3 female artists would be in the rotation. Most are set up to fail, so there's something in success and appealing to the boys' club. Just maybe not the full justification for this particular honor.)
posted by verbminx at 1:21 AM on May 5, 2023 [2 favorites]

The one thing I can say for her is that for whatever reason, not sure about the details behind it, must assume that it was partly because she was seen as having enough mainstream appeal, the industry decided that she would be one of the x number of female artists allowed to be played on mainstream pop/soft-rock radio.

She's also played ball with the Hall--she inducted Pat Benetar last year and has played at previous induction ceremonies.

Since I suspect muddgirl's comment was directed in part at me, I'm going to once again say that my objection to Sheryl Crow being a first-year inductee isn't that "she sucks". I think she's a fairly talented songwriter, but I look at her and I look at Cyndi Lauper--who was nominated and didn't get in--and I see someone who's a technically proficient songwriter and is well-liked personally but who's not especially innovative, where Lauper had a distinctive, punk- and new wave-influenced sound that made the top 40 and who has continued experimenting with different genres of music. I also think about the women who haven't even been nominated yet (off the top of my head: Lauryn Hill, Tori Amos, Liz Phair, Bikini Kill--and this is just from the 1990s) and Sheryl Crow's first-year induction looks so boring.
posted by pxe2000 at 6:11 AM on May 5, 2023 [2 favorites]

Lauryn Hill, Tori Amos, Liz Phair, Bikini Kill

Name four women you would not expect to play ball with the Hall.

(See also Fiona Apple, eligible since 2022, Sleater-Kinney (2020), PJ Harvey (2017), Sade (2010), Siouxsie and the Banshees (2004), and Bjork (2003). None of them have ever been nominated.)
posted by box at 6:44 AM on May 5, 2023 [2 favorites]

Name four women you would not expect to play ball with the Hall.

On the one hand, I get that. On the other, famous music industry darling Kate Bush is being inducted this year, so there's the possibility it could happen.
posted by pxe2000 at 7:00 AM on May 5, 2023 [1 favorite]

Wait, are people really doing the "I would vote for a woman, just not this woman" here?
posted by medusa at 7:37 AM on May 5, 2023 [1 favorite]

These might not all be first-ballot Hall of Famers.

Yeah, I have no problem with any of those. There are several on that list I like way better than the ones inducted on this list.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:42 AM on May 5, 2023

Re: Sheryl Crow grar—a lot of studio musicians vote and she is known to be a lovely and talented artist who collaborates beautifully with others. In a field where that is not often the case, I suspect this is part of the reason she’s being honored. Many musicians use her as the example of how to work together as a team. Not that Cyndi Lauper doesn’t, but she has moved into the Tony space and not the pop recording world.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 7:54 AM on May 5, 2023 [3 favorites]

Wait, are people really doing the "I would vote for a woman, just not this woman" here?

There were multiple women on the ballot. Kate Bush and Missy Elliott were voted in, and I personally voted for both on the fan ballot. So I did vote for women. I was just disappointed that one of the women who will be inducted is talented but kind of boring, compared to some of the other female nominees who are innovative.

Based on what I know of the Hall, and based on yes I said's comment, I suspect Sheryl takes the Dave Grohl lane here. She's a great coworker and is technically skilled, but her music is not especially innovative (compared to Kate Bush and Missy Elliott). The Hall has plenty of mediocre white men, so maybe her status as a mediocre white woman is the innovation.
posted by pxe2000 at 9:44 AM on May 5, 2023 [2 favorites]

Someone like Sheryl Crow, not a genius or a generational talent, but someone who can be counted on to show up ready to work--whether that's to play a golf tournament, sing 'If It Makes You Happy' at a VH1 Divas show backing up Miley Cyrus, or give RRHoF induction speeches for Fleetwood Mac and Pat Benatar--gets in on the first try.

Meanwhile, someone like Kate Bush, who never moved tons of units (*in the US **until Stranger Things), who writes and produces her own arty material and dropped out of public life for a decade, has to wait almost twenty years from when she was first eligible, and even then might not've made it if it weren't for Winona Ryder having enough pull to get her on the soundtrack of what turned out to be a hit Netflix show.

It's the system working as designed (one of the many things I dislike about the RRHoF), and 'the Dave Grohl lane' is a great way to put it.
posted by box at 11:24 AM on May 5, 2023 [2 favorites]

I agree all of those women should be in the Hall of Fame. But protesting Sheryl Crow doesn't get any of them in quicker. Female artists aren't keeping other female artists out of the Hall of Fame.
posted by muddgirl at 12:10 PM on May 5, 2023 [2 favorites]

George Michael was an astonishing songwriting and recording and performing talent that doesn't come along often. Much of the material on his solo albums was recorded by him. Like Prince. Wham! was one of the first pop bands allowed into China in the 80s. That band has probably three songs you will never forget if you've been in the pop music bubble they were released into. George as a solo artist has at least three songs you will never forget just on his own.

And I'm writing this as a fan in the US, where his domination when he was working was really small compared to much of the rest of the world.

I could accept arguing about Sheryl Crow (who I also think deserves to be in), but George Michael, to me, is a total no-brainer for getting in.
posted by hippybear at 2:23 PM on May 5, 2023 [5 favorites]

It's an act of bad faith in discussion to assume that the personal musical taste of someone you don't know, or barely know, is grounded in misogyny. Sometimes people just don't like things! Sometimes their dislike may come partly from their education in the topic! If they feel compelled to explain further, it's also bad faith to try to call them out for responding to the discussion in the terms that were set in the first bad faith response (i.e. yes, if it is suggested that someone dislikes Sheryl Crow for gender reasons, it is likely that they will indeed reply with a few other female artists they thought merited the nod).

All that said, the points about her being a good collaborator who is easy to work with, professional, generous, and good at playing the game are all valid and interesting. The world is full of passionate mediocre artists and Eagles cover bands, but not all of them are decent human beings.

It is also possible that we're taking the Rock Hall a lot more seriously than the people making decisions for it, lol. Justice for Bjork!
posted by verbminx at 1:54 AM on May 11, 2023 [1 favorite]

Missy Elliott was the first female rapper!? Say wha???

However deserving she may be, the idea she was the first female rapper will come as news to Cheryl The Pearl, Blondy and Angie B aka The Sequence. Last I heard, 1979 came before 1997, ya big clueless doofus.
posted by y2karl at 9:48 AM on May 14, 2023 [1 favorite]

See also The Monster Jam -- Spoonie G Meets The Sequence from 1980.
posted by y2karl at 10:09 AM on May 14, 2023 [1 favorite]

Interestingly enough. Sylvia Robinson, the founder and CEO of Sugarhill Records, began her musical career as the Sylvia of 1956's Mickey & Sylvia -- Love Is Strange.
posted by y2karl at 10:31 AM on May 14, 2023 [1 favorite]