just revel in the absurdity and exhilaration of it all
May 13, 2023 7:15 PM Subscribe
The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom changes the conversation By Mike Mahardy [Polygon] “If, as with music, movies, TV, or books, we can look at Tears of the Kingdom as a dialogue between creator and audience, then Nintendo has effectively changed the conversation. Historically, when Zelda players asked Nintendo, “Can I do this?” the answer was usually “no” or “not yet.” Breath of the Wild often answered in the affirmative, but Tears of the Kingdom takes that response one step further: When pressed as to whether something is possible in this enormous, absurd, mysterious world, Nintendo doesn’t just try to say “yes.” It strains to say “yes, but also...””
It's so good it kind of hurts. I'm overwhelmed but in a good way. Like Breath of the Wild, TotK is a complete playground, but now we have some cheat codes and yet we're somehow still playing within the boundaries and rules of this world. It's a wonderfully weird tension.
posted by Fizz at 7:20 PM on May 13, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 7:20 PM on May 13, 2023 [8 favorites]
My SiL got the game yesterday, and is planning to dive in as soon as mother’s day weekend has passed. He’s very stoked.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:41 PM on May 13, 2023
posted by Thorzdad at 7:41 PM on May 13, 2023
I’ll admit I only got maybe halfway or slightly more through Breath of the Wild because of weapon degradation, and it sounds like that’s being very much retained.
So on the one hand I want to write “looking forward to it” because I’m hearing great things about the capacity for user experimentation with some of the abilities, but on the other hand all of those great things I’m hearing were written by people who made their peace with weapon degradation. I’ll spare you the rant about how the more reasonable and mature response from gamers as a collective would be rounding up designers who build degradation systems and launching us into the sun (even me; we don’t live forever and the cause is worthy).
Suffice to say I’m looking forward to simultaneously marveling at and absolutely hating this one at the same time.
posted by Ryvar at 7:49 PM on May 13, 2023 [10 favorites]
So on the one hand I want to write “looking forward to it” because I’m hearing great things about the capacity for user experimentation with some of the abilities, but on the other hand all of those great things I’m hearing were written by people who made their peace with weapon degradation. I’ll spare you the rant about how the more reasonable and mature response from gamers as a collective would be rounding up designers who build degradation systems and launching us into the sun (even me; we don’t live forever and the cause is worthy).
Suffice to say I’m looking forward to simultaneously marveling at and absolutely hating this one at the same time.
posted by Ryvar at 7:49 PM on May 13, 2023 [10 favorites]
Ryvar: I'm not a gamer, but the playing footage I have seen suggest that you basically get to use everything as a weapon, and stick things together to increase weapon-ness.
posted by hippybear at 7:55 PM on May 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 7:55 PM on May 13, 2023 [4 favorites]
Yeah that’s kind of the problem: I like being able to find the one thing that works best for me and just… use that. And keep using it. I detest design that tries to hamfistedly force players outside their comfort zone rather than coaxing and encouraging them to branch out with tangible rewards.
If you want an example of how to gently encourage users to experiment with new weapons while slowly discouraging mainstays or turning their continued use into a major resource sink, Cyberpunk 2077’s weapon leveling / costs to upgrade old gear is actually shockingly good at this.
posted by Ryvar at 8:02 PM on May 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
If you want an example of how to gently encourage users to experiment with new weapons while slowly discouraging mainstays or turning their continued use into a major resource sink, Cyberpunk 2077’s weapon leveling / costs to upgrade old gear is actually shockingly good at this.
posted by Ryvar at 8:02 PM on May 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
It's interesting, because I think the tutorial is a lot more heavy-handed than the equivalent one from Breath of the Wild, but I think it also served as a bit of a statement of intent; there was a certain amount of unlearning I had to do from habits I'd picked up from the previous game. There's no need to carry around a hammer and a fire weapon and an axe and a korok leaf and and and and because you can just make what you need when you need it. The Zonai stuff ended up being way more important and useful than I expected it would be, because you can carry them around with you (and means they have a lot more cool things to give you as reward!) And the more elaborate cave systems are certainly much more interesting.
posted by Merus at 8:33 PM on May 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Merus at 8:33 PM on May 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
Like, all I've seen is a totally smart-ass YouTube gamer spending maybe 30-40 minutes in the first level of the game, but from what I saw, it was "oh, I need a thing, look I can make a thing" over and over. And the thing didn't last, but you soon made or had another thing.
I get the sense, as a non-gamer, that this takes the drudgery out of the weapon degradation mechanic while encouraging player creativity because you just sort of stitch a new THING together and then good to go. And what that THING might be.. well... that's up to you.
posted by hippybear at 8:42 PM on May 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
I get the sense, as a non-gamer, that this takes the drudgery out of the weapon degradation mechanic while encouraging player creativity because you just sort of stitch a new THING together and then good to go. And what that THING might be.. well... that's up to you.
posted by hippybear at 8:42 PM on May 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
but from what I saw, it was "oh, I need a thing, look I can make a thing" over and over
That makes it sound suspiciously like the whole game is crafting now.
I despise crafting.
posted by gurple at 8:46 PM on May 13, 2023 [8 favorites]
That makes it sound suspiciously like the whole game is crafting now.
I despise crafting.
posted by gurple at 8:46 PM on May 13, 2023 [8 favorites]
Again, non-gamer. Can't say what is crafting mechanic and what is not.
It looked fun to me. A non-gamer.
posted by hippybear at 8:49 PM on May 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
It looked fun to me. A non-gamer.
posted by hippybear at 8:49 PM on May 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
I spent a very long time getting to the third shrine I found, over an hour; my kid, who had played earlier, pointed out that rather than my circuitous journey of experimentation with hooks and rails, I could've just gone the other way and walked up a slope. In this case, Nintendo was saying, "Yes, but...really?"
posted by mittens at 8:50 PM on May 13, 2023 [11 favorites]
posted by mittens at 8:50 PM on May 13, 2023 [11 favorites]
Hippybear: hmmm. I’ll try thinking of it through that lens and we’ll see what happens when my copy arrives on Weds. Obviously I don’t have a choice as to whether I play it given my job, but thanks for sticking it out with trying to convince me to approach it in a more positive frame of mind. I appreciate that.
I despise crafting.
The only thing I enjoy more than crafting is being contrarian. I am now determined to like this game.
posted by Ryvar at 9:02 PM on May 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
I despise crafting.
The only thing I enjoy more than crafting is being contrarian. I am now determined to like this game.
posted by Ryvar at 9:02 PM on May 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
My son came in from school yesterday and barely put his book bag down before loading the game and he is just in love so far. My favorite was hearing him yell (spoiler?) “You can fly! Mom, I’m flying! Look! Ok now I’m falling.” There’s just so many delighted noises coming from my jaded 14 year old right now I don’t have the heart to mention the word bedtime.
posted by Mchelly at 9:05 PM on May 13, 2023 [11 favorites]
posted by Mchelly at 9:05 PM on May 13, 2023 [11 favorites]
All I'm saying is, if I didn't have a brain goblin that would result in me starving to death in a pile of my own waste if I were to start playing this game, it looks like a ton on fun to play.
posted by hippybear at 9:06 PM on May 13, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 9:06 PM on May 13, 2023 [10 favorites]
this game is harder than BOTW. also i am not good at rotating 3d shapes it turns out. i shall still play it until my eyes bleed
posted by capnsue at 10:47 PM on May 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by capnsue at 10:47 PM on May 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
Regarding the weapon degradation: they’ve sort of addressed the issue with the new fuse ability, since a weapon’s durability is reset every time you fuse something to it. So if you’ve got a base weapon that you really want to keep permanently, there’s nothing stopping you from gluing a keese eyeball (or whatever you might have a lot of) to it and the replacing that eyeball when you get the “your weapon is badly damaged” warning. Takes a bit more inventory management than the last game, but at least there’s a way to keep the weapons from being used up.
posted by not just everyday big moggies at 11:09 PM on May 13, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by not just everyday big moggies at 11:09 PM on May 13, 2023 [9 favorites]
eh. yeah I've been playing zelda games since I had to pay for half of the first one for my birthday.
BotW "dark souls lite, but with shitty weapons and roasting apples" just bounced off me. I was hype for it too, but just... well, the fact that everyone agrees on the major flaws of the game," but it's better this time" just leaves me a little cold.
posted by lkc at 11:40 PM on May 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
BotW "dark souls lite, but with shitty weapons and roasting apples" just bounced off me. I was hype for it too, but just... well, the fact that everyone agrees on the major flaws of the game," but it's better this time" just leaves me a little cold.
posted by lkc at 11:40 PM on May 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
I got my copy yesterday. Looking forward to the new maps...hope the controls don't change like Madden did over time...so much going on, I won't have much time to play.
posted by Chuffy at 12:05 AM on May 14, 2023
posted by Chuffy at 12:05 AM on May 14, 2023
Okay so
The main thing I have to say is: you can reverse the rotation direction on the Ultrahand in the options, if you, like me, found the default to feel backward
anyway good luck with saving hyrule everyone
we’re counting on you
posted by DoctorFedora at 1:21 AM on May 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
The main thing I have to say is: you can reverse the rotation direction on the Ultrahand in the options, if you, like me, found the default to feel backward
anyway good luck with saving hyrule everyone
we’re counting on you
posted by DoctorFedora at 1:21 AM on May 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
So…like…if I, like, got a Switch a years or two ago, as did many, and I gave BotW a shot thinking, “open world game, you got time, why not”, and bounced so hard off the controls I dishonored my gaming heritage and then switched to Hollow Knight because it’s pretty and has one fewer dimension but was promptly thrashed so hard that thinking of that first yelling boss gives me anxiety…how much does success in BotW require control finesse? Can I hunt and peck my way through it, or am I doomed to be endlessly shot to death trying and failing to climb some random ladder?
I think I’ll give it a go again tomorrow. All this talk of Tears of the Kingdom is giving me fancy notions. I think I’m beyond my “git gud” days, but it sounds like the kind of immersive experience I could use right now.
posted by hototogisu at 3:06 AM on May 14, 2023
I think I’ll give it a go again tomorrow. All this talk of Tears of the Kingdom is giving me fancy notions. I think I’m beyond my “git gud” days, but it sounds like the kind of immersive experience I could use right now.
posted by hototogisu at 3:06 AM on May 14, 2023
I haven't played this or Call of the Wild, but I'm thinking of getting it for my son (and me!) to play. Those of you who have played both: should I get this sequel or start with the original?
posted by zardoz at 3:14 AM on May 14, 2023
posted by zardoz at 3:14 AM on May 14, 2023
@zardoz - Start with the original, it was a easier to get going with
posted by john m at 4:02 AM on May 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by john m at 4:02 AM on May 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
Having actually played this game, I will just say that every "I can imagine a reason why I'd hypothetically dislike this game" sounds something like Decca rejecting the. Beatles because "guitar groups are on the way out."
This isn't just the best game design Nintendo's ever done—it's Nintendo doing their best work by shattering a lot limitations that it usually puts on its own work, and the result is radical. I can't remember the last time they let a game flat-out be this difficult. And the genius of the fusing system isn't fusing in and of itself: it's fusing mixed with the counterintuitive brilliance of Nintendo going: "Oh, are people complaining that they keep finding strong weapons and then losing them? Great: let's just get rid of all the strong weapons. Only junk from now on! Have fun!"
Breath of the Wild was tremendous, of course, but I couldn't help but think of it as the first 70% of the best video game I'd ever played. Unless you played it by aggressively hunting down the Sacred Beasts and leaping right to Ganon, you hit a point where combat became relatively trivial, exploration got fairly same-y, and the experience just plateau'd: moving through the world felt terrific, but there was barely any level-up past that movement, with shrines all feeling like bite-sized teases and the SBs feeling like real dilutions of the temples that had come before them.
Tears of the Kingdom doesn't just correct this in the obvious ways—"hey let's have temples"—but corrects for deficiencies in the original game's design that required some pretty deep rethinking on Nintendo's part. It's wild how much more compelling the new mechanics are than BotW's. It's wild that an entire second Hyrule-sized map exists, and that a good chunk of its purpose is to be excessively, at times a little terrifyingly, hard. And it's incredible just how much better the NPC and quest-writing is.
Ultrahand has largely overshadowed Fuse as the big exciting new thing, but Fuse makes this feel like the most expansive Kirby game ever made. I think the genius of it is that Fuse isn't just for making weapons: it's for making tools. And the one-two combo of weapon/fusion creates a system in which the base weapon determines certain abilities or strengths of the thing you're building, but the item you're fusing to it determines its function as a tool: among other things, "hammers" and "axes" are denoted as unique categories of item, more effective on stone and wood respectively (which is true of environmental interaction and combat alike). The lack of fire/ice/shock arrows and the removal of "bomb" as a rune allows for more versatility in the toolset you manipulate the environment with, as does the fact that any item can be thrown or arrow'd or attached to a shield for trigger purposes. (And it's a little crazy seeing just how many things you can turn a shield into: my entire inventory is just MacGyver-style shield-tools, with no consideration towards blocking whatsoever.)
Nintendo offers a route which'll hold your hand, but it's incredible how much they let you ignore that hand-holding. (And with hilarious results: like, it's awful in the best way that you can opt out of ever receiving the paraglider if you desire.) And they understand just how powerful the new set of abilities is: so far, my experience of playing has consisted of repeatedly running into obstacles that feel impossible, or finding myself in situations where there is no obvious solution. Just a lot of environmental detail and Nintendo shrugging and going, "hey, listen, have fun."
And it's not just fun, it's soul food. I can't remember the last time a game, any game, got my imagination revving up so much. And I do know the last time a AAA game made by a major studio got me feeling that way, because the answer is "literally never."
Oh and the glider mechanics, mixed with the way the low-tech way the Zonai culture handles launching said gliders, makes me feel more like I'm in a Hiyao Miyazaki movie than anything I've ever played. So so much about this game is just insanely enchanting, wow.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 4:14 AM on May 14, 2023 [35 favorites]
This isn't just the best game design Nintendo's ever done—it's Nintendo doing their best work by shattering a lot limitations that it usually puts on its own work, and the result is radical. I can't remember the last time they let a game flat-out be this difficult. And the genius of the fusing system isn't fusing in and of itself: it's fusing mixed with the counterintuitive brilliance of Nintendo going: "Oh, are people complaining that they keep finding strong weapons and then losing them? Great: let's just get rid of all the strong weapons. Only junk from now on! Have fun!"
Breath of the Wild was tremendous, of course, but I couldn't help but think of it as the first 70% of the best video game I'd ever played. Unless you played it by aggressively hunting down the Sacred Beasts and leaping right to Ganon, you hit a point where combat became relatively trivial, exploration got fairly same-y, and the experience just plateau'd: moving through the world felt terrific, but there was barely any level-up past that movement, with shrines all feeling like bite-sized teases and the SBs feeling like real dilutions of the temples that had come before them.
Tears of the Kingdom doesn't just correct this in the obvious ways—"hey let's have temples"—but corrects for deficiencies in the original game's design that required some pretty deep rethinking on Nintendo's part. It's wild how much more compelling the new mechanics are than BotW's. It's wild that an entire second Hyrule-sized map exists, and that a good chunk of its purpose is to be excessively, at times a little terrifyingly, hard. And it's incredible just how much better the NPC and quest-writing is.
Ultrahand has largely overshadowed Fuse as the big exciting new thing, but Fuse makes this feel like the most expansive Kirby game ever made. I think the genius of it is that Fuse isn't just for making weapons: it's for making tools. And the one-two combo of weapon/fusion creates a system in which the base weapon determines certain abilities or strengths of the thing you're building, but the item you're fusing to it determines its function as a tool: among other things, "hammers" and "axes" are denoted as unique categories of item, more effective on stone and wood respectively (which is true of environmental interaction and combat alike). The lack of fire/ice/shock arrows and the removal of "bomb" as a rune allows for more versatility in the toolset you manipulate the environment with, as does the fact that any item can be thrown or arrow'd or attached to a shield for trigger purposes. (And it's a little crazy seeing just how many things you can turn a shield into: my entire inventory is just MacGyver-style shield-tools, with no consideration towards blocking whatsoever.)
Nintendo offers a route which'll hold your hand, but it's incredible how much they let you ignore that hand-holding. (And with hilarious results: like, it's awful in the best way that you can opt out of ever receiving the paraglider if you desire.) And they understand just how powerful the new set of abilities is: so far, my experience of playing has consisted of repeatedly running into obstacles that feel impossible, or finding myself in situations where there is no obvious solution. Just a lot of environmental detail and Nintendo shrugging and going, "hey, listen, have fun."
And it's not just fun, it's soul food. I can't remember the last time a game, any game, got my imagination revving up so much. And I do know the last time a AAA game made by a major studio got me feeling that way, because the answer is "literally never."
Oh and the glider mechanics, mixed with the way the low-tech way the Zonai culture handles launching said gliders, makes me feel more like I'm in a Hiyao Miyazaki movie than anything I've ever played. So so much about this game is just insanely enchanting, wow.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 4:14 AM on May 14, 2023 [35 favorites]
…how much does success in BotW require control finesse?
TotK doesn't seem that different from BotW, keeping combat mechanics like Flurry Rush and Perfect Parry which require precise inputs. Also, what you might call "3D puzzles in motion with jumping". In ToTK I feel like some scenarios have been legit hard and the game was giving me an actual challenge.
It's a tough question because I believe many Zelda players want that kind of game, and it's definitely a core element which I'm not sure you can get around at all times esp. for bosses in story progression. A couple times where I had clammy hands after a boss fight (like the more intense fights in HZD). A couple fights that were so stressful I was involuntarily pushing down on left thumb stick , ie. crouching instead of running away, and got wrecked that way.
TBH though it took my fancy to instant veer off randomly into the hardest areas of the game at the beginning, blithely ignoring the signposts. Then doing main story stuff on like 4 hearts without upgraded armour. It's been hilarious because I've been able to sneak through or muddle my way through anyway, and the game definitely let me do it.
Alternate solutions to combat are almost always set up in some way. And much more so in TotK, because now you can also craft your way past most situations.
- I am using muddle buds a lot - attach one to an arrow and the affected enemies start fighting each other for a time, without ever having noticed you. (The sheikah sensor+ helps you quickly find a lot of muddle buds or whatever resource you need.)
- I completed a mission against a bigger group of monsters assasins creed style, sneaking around and taking out groups one by one. You can even drop the smoke and do a disappearing act. Or do flashbangs.
- Now I can also craft sentry guns. Drop one of those bad boys into a monster camp whilst standing back cackling with manic glee. That's never gonna get old. I feel bad for the hapless fantasy-world monsters being mowed down by my sci-fi gadgets.
I realise now some of the more outrageously-sized enemy health bars must be there because you can get so incredibly OP in the game.
- I slapped the sentry gun on my monocycle and drove around the world with it autotargeting random monsters, it was a riot.
- Sentry gun goes wrong? ten seconds of instant chaos and carnage that left me laughing for a good minute.
- Flying enemy or fast-moving thing I'm finding frustrating to hit? Keese eyeball = homing arrow. Boss with fast-moving soft spot? Keese eyeball.
That's not even getting into the non-combat related stuff like traversal, exploration and crafting-related puzzles.
I have had so many moments of "NOW I'm thinking with portals" that it's not even funny.
posted by yoHighness at 5:08 AM on May 14, 2023 [9 favorites]
TotK doesn't seem that different from BotW, keeping combat mechanics like Flurry Rush and Perfect Parry which require precise inputs. Also, what you might call "3D puzzles in motion with jumping". In ToTK I feel like some scenarios have been legit hard and the game was giving me an actual challenge.
It's a tough question because I believe many Zelda players want that kind of game, and it's definitely a core element which I'm not sure you can get around at all times esp. for bosses in story progression. A couple times where I had clammy hands after a boss fight (like the more intense fights in HZD). A couple fights that were so stressful I was involuntarily pushing down on left thumb stick , ie. crouching instead of running away, and got wrecked that way.
TBH though it took my fancy to instant veer off randomly into the hardest areas of the game at the beginning, blithely ignoring the signposts. Then doing main story stuff on like 4 hearts without upgraded armour. It's been hilarious because I've been able to sneak through or muddle my way through anyway, and the game definitely let me do it.
Alternate solutions to combat are almost always set up in some way. And much more so in TotK, because now you can also craft your way past most situations.
- I am using muddle buds a lot - attach one to an arrow and the affected enemies start fighting each other for a time, without ever having noticed you. (The sheikah sensor+ helps you quickly find a lot of muddle buds or whatever resource you need.)
- I completed a mission against a bigger group of monsters assasins creed style, sneaking around and taking out groups one by one. You can even drop the smoke and do a disappearing act. Or do flashbangs.
- Now I can also craft sentry guns. Drop one of those bad boys into a monster camp whilst standing back cackling with manic glee. That's never gonna get old. I feel bad for the hapless fantasy-world monsters being mowed down by my sci-fi gadgets.
I realise now some of the more outrageously-sized enemy health bars must be there because you can get so incredibly OP in the game.
- I slapped the sentry gun on my monocycle and drove around the world with it autotargeting random monsters, it was a riot.
- Sentry gun goes wrong? ten seconds of instant chaos and carnage that left me laughing for a good minute.
- Flying enemy or fast-moving thing I'm finding frustrating to hit? Keese eyeball = homing arrow. Boss with fast-moving soft spot? Keese eyeball.
That's not even getting into the non-combat related stuff like traversal, exploration and crafting-related puzzles.
I have had so many moments of "NOW I'm thinking with portals" that it's not even funny.
posted by yoHighness at 5:08 AM on May 14, 2023 [9 favorites]
Players are not happy you cannot pet the dog in Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom
posted by achrise at 5:15 AM on May 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by achrise at 5:15 AM on May 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
TotK doesn't seem that different from BotW, keeping combat mechanics like Flurry Rush and Perfect Parry which require precise inputs.
On the other hand, BotW never _needed_ flurries or parries. Every time I did it, it was sort of accidental and kind of a miracle. I'm absolutely a story mode gamer - Control, Prey, the Horizons, etc, if there's a story difficulty, I'm 100% there, I have no interest in perfecting the ability to shoot a tiny blinking pixel off the back of some huge enemy that is actively trying to flatten me.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, like 90% of BotW's difficulty can be cheesed by buying the amiibo cards for $20 (or the tags for less and knocking up a DIY solution with a phone) and dealing with every mildly difficult fight by eating more food than is physically healthy.
There were some tower puzzles that I'm pretty sure I only finished because the enemies eventually decided to take pity on me and stop killing me while I climbed, but maybe a little over a quarter of the way through the game it stopped being difficult and started being more puzzling, which was fun.
And yeah, I'm still not 100% onboard with all the crafting in TotK, and I'm not entirely sure what the up arrow menu is supposed to be except a chord in the middle of a fuse? And I sort of wish it were part of cooking instead of the same old clunky inventory mess? I'm sort of torn, if I have to fuse elements onto every arrow, I'm going to miss just rapid fire gunning down fire-weak enemies with flame arrows, y'know?
But the ability pie menu is greatly appreciated, and I've already noticed a few UI improvements, such as offering you a choice of which weapon to dispose of when you are overburdened and open a chest, rather than making you close the chest, go into your inventory, select something to drop, then opening the chest again once you have free space.
posted by Kyol at 5:38 AM on May 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
On the other hand, BotW never _needed_ flurries or parries. Every time I did it, it was sort of accidental and kind of a miracle. I'm absolutely a story mode gamer - Control, Prey, the Horizons, etc, if there's a story difficulty, I'm 100% there, I have no interest in perfecting the ability to shoot a tiny blinking pixel off the back of some huge enemy that is actively trying to flatten me.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, like 90% of BotW's difficulty can be cheesed by buying the amiibo cards for $20 (or the tags for less and knocking up a DIY solution with a phone) and dealing with every mildly difficult fight by eating more food than is physically healthy.
There were some tower puzzles that I'm pretty sure I only finished because the enemies eventually decided to take pity on me and stop killing me while I climbed, but maybe a little over a quarter of the way through the game it stopped being difficult and started being more puzzling, which was fun.
And yeah, I'm still not 100% onboard with all the crafting in TotK, and I'm not entirely sure what the up arrow menu is supposed to be except a chord in the middle of a fuse? And I sort of wish it were part of cooking instead of the same old clunky inventory mess? I'm sort of torn, if I have to fuse elements onto every arrow, I'm going to miss just rapid fire gunning down fire-weak enemies with flame arrows, y'know?
But the ability pie menu is greatly appreciated, and I've already noticed a few UI improvements, such as offering you a choice of which weapon to dispose of when you are overburdened and open a chest, rather than making you close the chest, go into your inventory, select something to drop, then opening the chest again once you have free space.
posted by Kyol at 5:38 AM on May 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
We (that is, my 9-year-old and I) got the game on Friday and we're completely hooked. We got the Switch at Christmas and I bought BotW the next day; it was the first console I've had since PS1. That game just blew my mind and we loved exploring the world together. Often I'd do something, then he'd do something, and sometimes I'd help him out; at this point, he's probably better at some things than I am. For instance, I'm terrible at dodging and parrying, and he can do it all with ease.
What's really fun, though, is encountering challenges in the shrines and working it out together. There was one moment yesterday when I was sitting there trying to figure something out and he all of a sudden blurted out "What about [ability]?" and it worked. It's so much fun.
Anyway, this is all to say, that to me BotW felt huge; TotK feels so, so much bigger. I'm almost overwhelmed by the options in front of me right now to advance the plot. My son's gone off in a completely different direction—I'm very much a "that hill looks interesting; I think I'll check it out" type player while he's been more "I wonder what is happening with all my old friends in Zora's Domain?"
The additions are so much fun. I love all the caves, and the underworld (which is WAY bigger than I had hoped). I haven't seen much of the sky islands yet, besides the first one. There is a lot more variety in terms of enemies—that was one shortcoming of BotW for me—and the story feels more fully baked. (At least so far. I've barely dug into it so far.)
But the ultrahand and fuse stuff? I feel like I haven't even cracked the surface of those things. I'm barely using them. For the weapons, I sometimes forget to even do it. I have a bunch of fused things but I'm still playing like it's BotW—use the weapon till it breaks, discard. But I'm excited to play with them more. It's going to add a new dimension to the game and one of my favourite parts of BotW was coming up with fun strategies to sneak up on enemy camps and destroying them without getting caught.
But I really, really wish we could pet the good doggos.
posted by synecdoche at 7:12 AM on May 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
What's really fun, though, is encountering challenges in the shrines and working it out together. There was one moment yesterday when I was sitting there trying to figure something out and he all of a sudden blurted out "What about [ability]?" and it worked. It's so much fun.
Anyway, this is all to say, that to me BotW felt huge; TotK feels so, so much bigger. I'm almost overwhelmed by the options in front of me right now to advance the plot. My son's gone off in a completely different direction—I'm very much a "that hill looks interesting; I think I'll check it out" type player while he's been more "I wonder what is happening with all my old friends in Zora's Domain?"
The additions are so much fun. I love all the caves, and the underworld (which is WAY bigger than I had hoped). I haven't seen much of the sky islands yet, besides the first one. There is a lot more variety in terms of enemies—that was one shortcoming of BotW for me—and the story feels more fully baked. (At least so far. I've barely dug into it so far.)
But the ultrahand and fuse stuff? I feel like I haven't even cracked the surface of those things. I'm barely using them. For the weapons, I sometimes forget to even do it. I have a bunch of fused things but I'm still playing like it's BotW—use the weapon till it breaks, discard. But I'm excited to play with them more. It's going to add a new dimension to the game and one of my favourite parts of BotW was coming up with fun strategies to sneak up on enemy camps and destroying them without getting caught.
But I really, really wish we could pet the good doggos.
posted by synecdoche at 7:12 AM on May 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
(And with hilarious results: like, it's awful in the best way that you can opt out of ever receiving the paraglider if you desire.)
Ahem. Spoilers (about unintentionally missing the paraglider):
I like the increased variety of enemy. One enemy that I don't like though (spoilers, about that enemy):
Spoilers (concerning a certain shrine):
And spoilers again (a trick that I've found useful in shines, that may be a bit overpowered):
posted by JHarris at 7:21 AM on May 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Ahem. Spoilers (about unintentionally missing the paraglider):
I didn't intend to ignore the glider, just hadn't explored that quest chain. I did a different chain first that got me to fixing and launching Impa's balloon, and it wasn't until we were way up in the sky that she tells me I have to glide down, leaving falling to my death the only recourse.
I was shocked that Nintendo didn't foresee the possibility that someone could just honestly miss getting the paraglider. It felt like if you missed Hestu's encounter in BotW, and went through the entire game with hundreds of useless Korok seeds, stuck with the tiny starting inventory.I like the increased variety of enemy. One enemy that I don't like though (spoilers, about that enemy):
the updated version of Floormasters, that pops up in random places in the world with very little warning. None of my attacks does significant damage to them, and they are very difficult to evade. You can run into one of them with just the four hearts you get out of the tutorial area with. I take it they're kind of this game's version of Guardians, but at least those you could see from a distance and steer clear of before they're already too close to run from.
Spoilers (concerning a certain shrine):
I've done 24 shines so far. Favorite/least favorite so far was the Eventide Shrine (the kind that take all your possessions away while you're inside) where you have almost nothing in the way of weapons, but it gives you the tools to make spiky automated drones to take care of the enemies for you. Favorite because it was a fun gimmick, least favorite because stray hits from enemies do stupidly high damage compared to how many hearts I have, so I kept getting killed in two hits by stray hits from the last offscreen opponent when almost finished, and having to do the whole thing over again and again.
And spoilers again (a trick that I've found useful in shines, that may be a bit overpowered):
Ultrahand and Recall is a powerful combination. Use Ultrahand like Magnesis from BotW to move a plank backwards through a path that you want it to travel, then stand on it and Recall it. At least twice I've used this to solve shrine puzzles that I think I was meant to do differently. It's not a universal solution by any means, but it's a good technique to keep in mind.
posted by JHarris at 7:21 AM on May 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Nothing to add except I'm glad it sounds like it lives up to the hype. I spent this past winter FINALLY getting around to playing BoTW and loved it despite not being much of a gamer - yeah I'm another one who bought a Switch specifically for BoTW. I will agree with the comment above that the first 70% was phenomenal, once I had 200+ hours and was leveled up to the gills, the endgame did feel a bit anticlimactic. Hopefully ToTK does better on that front.
Between an insane work schedule and Scandinavia finally getting some proper spring weather, not sure when I'll get time to actually buy and play but it's definitely on my list...
posted by photo guy at 7:54 AM on May 14, 2023
Between an insane work schedule and Scandinavia finally getting some proper spring weather, not sure when I'll get time to actually buy and play but it's definitely on my list...
posted by photo guy at 7:54 AM on May 14, 2023
I really, really, really want to play this game. It looks and sounds spectacular.
I just cannot stand the hardware that it has to be played on. I loved the first Zelda Switch game, but didn't finish it. A few years ago, I bought a Switch just for Zelda. What a fantastic game! What an abysmal, cheaply made, flimsy, plasticky piece of hardware! I found the screen too small to play comfortably hand held and the battery life was pathetic. Plugged into a TV made it playable, but the hardware again made it unpleasant for me. Pointlessly tiny buttons. Flimsy, cheap feeling sticks. It felt fragile in a trashy way. Bad ergo dynamic design, even with extra handles popped onto it. I don't care how great a game is: if I'm going to be playing it for 50 hours, I need to have a comfortable experience. The Switch is just badly designed as a piece of hardware. I'm surprised the crappy build of the Switch isn't mentioned more often. It can't be just me.
And no, I didn't feel like spending another $85 for a "pro" controller that also looks cheap, even if it is a step up in quality. I had already plunked down for a spare battery, 3rd party handles, and a screen protector (the plastic screen scratches easily, apparently). I ended up giving the Switch away to a relative of mine. She likes it.
posted by SoberHighland at 8:13 AM on May 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
I just cannot stand the hardware that it has to be played on. I loved the first Zelda Switch game, but didn't finish it. A few years ago, I bought a Switch just for Zelda. What a fantastic game! What an abysmal, cheaply made, flimsy, plasticky piece of hardware! I found the screen too small to play comfortably hand held and the battery life was pathetic. Plugged into a TV made it playable, but the hardware again made it unpleasant for me. Pointlessly tiny buttons. Flimsy, cheap feeling sticks. It felt fragile in a trashy way. Bad ergo dynamic design, even with extra handles popped onto it. I don't care how great a game is: if I'm going to be playing it for 50 hours, I need to have a comfortable experience. The Switch is just badly designed as a piece of hardware. I'm surprised the crappy build of the Switch isn't mentioned more often. It can't be just me.
And no, I didn't feel like spending another $85 for a "pro" controller that also looks cheap, even if it is a step up in quality. I had already plunked down for a spare battery, 3rd party handles, and a screen protector (the plastic screen scratches easily, apparently). I ended up giving the Switch away to a relative of mine. She likes it.
posted by SoberHighland at 8:13 AM on May 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
I legit watched a streamer get upset and quit playing TotK for the night when she found out you couldn't pet the dogs. First she ranted a little, then cried a little bit, then closed the stream. Might submit that clip to Highlight Reel.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 8:24 AM on May 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 8:24 AM on May 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
You can’t even pet the dogs with your ultrahand?
posted by Jon_Evil at 8:48 AM on May 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Jon_Evil at 8:48 AM on May 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm about 8 hours in and, as with Breath of the Wild I find I love it so much I feel a strange kind of heartache for it. The mint-green translucent-with-electricity aesthetic is so perfectly realized; the world is rippling with life as before. What's different is the uncanny sensation that everything is permeable and manipulable; you move literally through rock up into the air; you manipulate physics; you create attacks on the spot. It moves the player into a magical sphere, and the result is, well, magical.
And so far they've pulled off the neat trick of making a Zelda an active, autonomous agent without making her directly playable. She's not waiting out 100 years of torture in a dungeon; she's present in the world and in time.
Few games gun for "glorious;" this one might be there.
posted by argybarg at 8:53 AM on May 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
And so far they've pulled off the neat trick of making a Zelda an active, autonomous agent without making her directly playable. She's not waiting out 100 years of torture in a dungeon; she's present in the world and in time.
Few games gun for "glorious;" this one might be there.
posted by argybarg at 8:53 AM on May 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
(While the Switch hardware isn't great, the Switch Lite is a little nicer imo--it swaps out directional buttons for a d-pad, which I like better. If you don't want to play in-person multiplayer or motion-control games, or plug it into a tv (I don't want to do any of those things), it might be a better option.)
posted by box at 9:03 AM on May 14, 2023
posted by box at 9:03 AM on May 14, 2023
It arrives today! And I am so very excited.
I'm really worried about the reports about it being hard. I'm not really all that great at video games, and BotW was hard enough for me.
posted by meese at 9:06 AM on May 14, 2023
I'm really worried about the reports about it being hard. I'm not really all that great at video games, and BotW was hard enough for me.
posted by meese at 9:06 AM on May 14, 2023
I'll have to return to this article and post later when I have fully formed my thoughts on TOTK. I cannot stop playing it, I'm having a great time with the new mechanics, but I'm also struggling with constant deja-vus and a feeling of having played a similar version of this game before...
Oh and yes, players not being able to pet the dogs is Nintendo's relationship with its audience in a nutshell for me. Six years (or more) of development time to respond to a popular demand seemingly just ignored.
posted by bigendian at 9:42 AM on May 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Oh and yes, players not being able to pet the dogs is Nintendo's relationship with its audience in a nutshell for me. Six years (or more) of development time to respond to a popular demand seemingly just ignored.
posted by bigendian at 9:42 AM on May 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
To be fair, damn near every other popular demand was addressed. Menus are easier to navigate, items are easier to drop, and a few others that might be mild spoilers so I’ll leave them alone.
posted by argybarg at 9:54 AM on May 14, 2023
posted by argybarg at 9:54 AM on May 14, 2023
(since it was brought up here, I'll add that in the game in AC:Valhalla — a brutal Viking murder simulator — you can indeed pet your dogs.)
posted by SoberHighland at 11:13 AM on May 14, 2023
posted by SoberHighland at 11:13 AM on May 14, 2023
Ok, having played a bit more, they've absolutely cleaned up one of my major cooking complaints, and now it's a lot easier to repeat stuff. And the little motifs that Link hums to himself while cooking are just perfect.
I still think the fuse menu (?) is a little obnoxious. I haven't even gotten off of the first island and I had _58_ things in there the last time I counted. I mean, I know I'm a loot goblin, but the game is adding currencies and loot, so it feels like it's intentional.
posted by Kyol at 2:01 PM on May 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
I still think the fuse menu (?) is a little obnoxious. I haven't even gotten off of the first island and I had _58_ things in there the last time I counted. I mean, I know I'm a loot goblin, but the game is adding currencies and loot, so it feels like it's intentional.
posted by Kyol at 2:01 PM on May 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
I keep seeing the complaints about weapon durability, and really don't get it. Maybe it's because I could never stand shooters with Big Assed Guns or whatever. But you can just about *almost* get by in BoTW with a tree branch. Or a whatever.... The fights are more entertaining figuring out how to beat this particular monster with this underpowered weapon. If you could keep the various overpowered items for the rest of the game, there wouldn't be any challenge at all and it'd get boring. What would be the point? The fights would all be the same, over and over. Yawn.
posted by cfraenkel at 2:35 PM on May 14, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by cfraenkel at 2:35 PM on May 14, 2023 [9 favorites]
I still occasionally chuckle to myself about how they really did actually decide that the sequel hook would be: what if, an even loster, even ancienter, even advanceder civilization
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:22 PM on May 14, 2023 [15 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:22 PM on May 14, 2023 [15 favorites]
Zelda team at any given point in the last fifteen years like “I am going to create a
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:25 PM on May 14, 2023 [18 favorites]
technology that is so ancient”posted by DoctorFedora at 3:25 PM on May 14, 2023 [18 favorites]
Oh and yes, players not being able to pet the dogs is Nintendo's relationship with its audience in a nutshell for me. Six years (or more) of development time to respond to a popular demand seemingly just ignored.
Nintendo has always been aggressively focused on every aspect of their games' designs being evolutions of the fundamental mechanics in said games. Every choice, every option, has a mechanical effect. They are often extremely creative when it comes to physical reactions to your behaviors—slicing signs in half in Ocarina of Time, or "healing" them by playing Zelda's Lullaby—but their games are still very explicitly game constructs rather than meaningful works of fiction.
What was exciting about Breath of the Wild was how drastically it changed Nintendo's idea of the "game" they were constructing. Tears of the Kingdom takes that even further. But a part of what I, personally, think is so neat about that is how far they've taken it without changing that fundamental focus.
The whole "can you pet the dog?" thing is funny as a meme; I'm only recently learning that some gamers apparently take it seriously to the point of actual upset. It feels of a piece with how entitled and puerile gaming culture is in general: there are variants of this juvenile attitude across the political spectrum, but the deeper underlying issue feels like a disconnect between what a game developer's actual job is (or what makes a game good) and what audiences perceive that job to be. I understand that attitude when it revolves around important things (like looking at Nintendo's approach to gender, sexuality, or race), but I cannot fathom looking at what an achievement TotK is, or even just at how many little delightful cute sweet touches it manages to encode in its DNA, and coming to the conclusion that Nintendo doesn't care about their fans. It's even a little outrageous: this is a game that's literally breaking new ground when it comes to how delightful gameplay can be—like, a game that will literally be studied for that two decades from now—so the idea that Nintendo holds their audience in contempt is kind of amazing.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 4:47 PM on May 14, 2023 [9 favorites]
Nintendo has always been aggressively focused on every aspect of their games' designs being evolutions of the fundamental mechanics in said games. Every choice, every option, has a mechanical effect. They are often extremely creative when it comes to physical reactions to your behaviors—slicing signs in half in Ocarina of Time, or "healing" them by playing Zelda's Lullaby—but their games are still very explicitly game constructs rather than meaningful works of fiction.
What was exciting about Breath of the Wild was how drastically it changed Nintendo's idea of the "game" they were constructing. Tears of the Kingdom takes that even further. But a part of what I, personally, think is so neat about that is how far they've taken it without changing that fundamental focus.
The whole "can you pet the dog?" thing is funny as a meme; I'm only recently learning that some gamers apparently take it seriously to the point of actual upset. It feels of a piece with how entitled and puerile gaming culture is in general: there are variants of this juvenile attitude across the political spectrum, but the deeper underlying issue feels like a disconnect between what a game developer's actual job is (or what makes a game good) and what audiences perceive that job to be. I understand that attitude when it revolves around important things (like looking at Nintendo's approach to gender, sexuality, or race), but I cannot fathom looking at what an achievement TotK is, or even just at how many little delightful cute sweet touches it manages to encode in its DNA, and coming to the conclusion that Nintendo doesn't care about their fans. It's even a little outrageous: this is a game that's literally breaking new ground when it comes to how delightful gameplay can be—like, a game that will literally be studied for that two decades from now—so the idea that Nintendo holds their audience in contempt is kind of amazing.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 4:47 PM on May 14, 2023 [9 favorites]
the annoying thing about this is that in Breath of the Wild, you can give good dogs treats and play fetch with them
"pet the dog" was shorthand for "does this game acknowledge non-violent actions that a normal human would do" and like honestly I feel like just being able to take time out to play fetch with a dog is straight up better than petting it?
posted by Merus at 5:29 PM on May 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
"pet the dog" was shorthand for "does this game acknowledge non-violent actions that a normal human would do" and like honestly I feel like just being able to take time out to play fetch with a dog is straight up better than petting it?
posted by Merus at 5:29 PM on May 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
I have nearly 130 amiibo (I decorate the game room with them and got most of them cheap when the amiibo market bottomed out following Animal Crossing for Wii U). Each amiibo can be scanned once a day for free meats, herbs, fish, and other supplies. Link will never go hungry again.
The Zelda series amiibo can unlock special gear. I have my Link dressed in authentic Wind Waker garb including hat and pants plus a King of Red Lions paraglider.
posted by Servo5678 at 5:32 PM on May 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
The Zelda series amiibo can unlock special gear. I have my Link dressed in authentic Wind Waker garb including hat and pants plus a King of Red Lions paraglider.
posted by Servo5678 at 5:32 PM on May 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Zelda team at any given point in the last fifteen years like “I am going to create a technology that is so ancient”
AUDIENCE: “How ancient will it be?”
posted by JoeXIII007 at 8:16 PM on May 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
AUDIENCE: “How ancient will it be?”
posted by JoeXIII007 at 8:16 PM on May 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
After three straight days, I am overwhelmed with delight. There are so many fun things to do that I can’t even begin to tell you. I also have the next two days off of work, and intended to spend them in Hyrule.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 11:01 PM on May 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 11:01 PM on May 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
I woke up today thinking I have a long weekend in Hyrule ahead of me. I was left a bit unimpressed by the first trailer of the game, but playing it feels completely different. I'm a big fan of the return of caves, there is a variety of things to do but you can also get a horse and just gallop around the place. I have died more often than usual but it doesn't feel unfair, more like me hoarding resources and autosaving works well (I.e. you can retry with all your resources without losing much progress). It is also a step up technically both in the pretties department and without any frame rate drops I've noticed.
Looking forward to playing more.
posted by ersatz at 12:40 AM on May 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
Looking forward to playing more.
posted by ersatz at 12:40 AM on May 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
The more I play this, the more I feel like the set of abilities players are given feels a lot more like tools to interact with the world. In retrospect, the first game’s smartphone apps felt a lot more “Zelda item-y” but this game’s loadout feels like it’s designed specifically as tools for navigating and affecting the world around you.
posted by DoctorFedora at 6:19 AM on May 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by DoctorFedora at 6:19 AM on May 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
Three days in and I finally unlocked the last slate rune. I know theres at least one more “upgrade” to it but man that took too long. At some point I had it mentally penciled in as “final bosses only weakness goes here.”
Other notes:
I get that it would probably break the physics model but im still sad you cant double weld the last bit of a hexagon. Feels strange for a game obsessed with rings.
The journey to my first temple was epic, which kinda makes up for their smallish design. Past zelda games would start dungeons small and ramp up. Here the “go anywhere” mechanic is fully embraced in design so I assume they will all be equal in challenge and scope.
I still havent found a control module dispenser, which is kind of the keystone of vehicle construction. Also: part of me wants to find explosive joints to build a multistage rocket to the moon. Crafting 100 crystals for extra fuel is a bit rough though, when the forge crafts 10 per reset cycle.
Im still not sure why there as so many wagon construction sites, or what value there is in towing a wagon. Obviously there are a few quests but the botw explore cycle is “ride your horse to a mountain, jump off to climb it, then jump off and glide for a few miles” so unless those wagons sprout wings they wont cone far.
Afaict, fusing only helps durability a smidge and the real gain is doing double damage per wear hit. The inventory slots help a great deal with some of the rarer fuses like wands.
When you finally finish the six hour tutorial, a cutscene plays and I suddenly got hopeful it meant Zelda was a playable character. Instead I got told to skydive without a parachute and hope it just works out.
With a sky, surface, and underground civilization motif I get the vague impression that the main story is a slave uprising from the moblins.
Speaking of, Sidon’s fiancee looks half bokogoblin.
posted by pwnguin at 8:38 AM on May 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
Other notes:
I get that it would probably break the physics model but im still sad you cant double weld the last bit of a hexagon. Feels strange for a game obsessed with rings.
The journey to my first temple was epic, which kinda makes up for their smallish design. Past zelda games would start dungeons small and ramp up. Here the “go anywhere” mechanic is fully embraced in design so I assume they will all be equal in challenge and scope.
I still havent found a control module dispenser, which is kind of the keystone of vehicle construction. Also: part of me wants to find explosive joints to build a multistage rocket to the moon. Crafting 100 crystals for extra fuel is a bit rough though, when the forge crafts 10 per reset cycle.
Im still not sure why there as so many wagon construction sites, or what value there is in towing a wagon. Obviously there are a few quests but the botw explore cycle is “ride your horse to a mountain, jump off to climb it, then jump off and glide for a few miles” so unless those wagons sprout wings they wont cone far.
Afaict, fusing only helps durability a smidge and the real gain is doing double damage per wear hit. The inventory slots help a great deal with some of the rarer fuses like wands.
When you finally finish the six hour tutorial, a cutscene plays and I suddenly got hopeful it meant Zelda was a playable character. Instead I got told to skydive without a parachute and hope it just works out.
With a sky, surface, and underground civilization motif I get the vague impression that the main story is a slave uprising from the moblins.
Speaking of, Sidon’s fiancee looks half bokogoblin.
posted by pwnguin at 8:38 AM on May 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
I spent all my non-Eurovision time this past weekend playing the game, and it is extremely rude of my life that I have to, like, work and make myself food and do all this real life stuff.
I'm seriously overwhelmed by all the delightful things to do in this game. I spent most of the weekend focusing on trying to unlock as many towers as possible, because it really bugs me to not have the map fully revealed (especially after I went to such trouble to reveal it all in BOTW!), and I remain delighted that one of the biggest joys of this games remains seeing something off in the distance, thinking, "huh, I wonder what that is", and going to check it out regardless of what your original plans were.
One of my favorite tiny details so far: Link's humming whenever he's cooking something.
Also, I don't know if it's just in comparison to how relatively OP I got by the end of my BOTW save or not, but oof, it was rough being brought back down to three hearts and starting out all naked, alone, and afraid style. I got killed in combat a bunch those first few hours, because I kept being like "I can take these Bokoblins!!" with my, like, stick with a rock on it, and getting slaughtered. FYI for anyone else having similar troubles: if you have amiibos or amiibo cards, the weapon/bow drops from those help a lot. (Phrenic Bow, my beloved)
posted by yasaman at 9:21 AM on May 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
I'm seriously overwhelmed by all the delightful things to do in this game. I spent most of the weekend focusing on trying to unlock as many towers as possible, because it really bugs me to not have the map fully revealed (especially after I went to such trouble to reveal it all in BOTW!), and I remain delighted that one of the biggest joys of this games remains seeing something off in the distance, thinking, "huh, I wonder what that is", and going to check it out regardless of what your original plans were.
One of my favorite tiny details so far: Link's humming whenever he's cooking something.
Also, I don't know if it's just in comparison to how relatively OP I got by the end of my BOTW save or not, but oof, it was rough being brought back down to three hearts and starting out all naked, alone, and afraid style. I got killed in combat a bunch those first few hours, because I kept being like "I can take these Bokoblins!!" with my, like, stick with a rock on it, and getting slaughtered. FYI for anyone else having similar troubles: if you have amiibos or amiibo cards, the weapon/bow drops from those help a lot. (Phrenic Bow, my beloved)
posted by yasaman at 9:21 AM on May 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
Picked up a rock and a korok appeared. We had our chat, and i put down the rock. It rolled toward the korok and bumped into it. To my surprise, the korok said “oof!”
Now THAT’S what I’m here for. Little attention-to-detail features like that.
Related: I LOVE the design of the “help I’ve been separated from my friend” challenges. It would be easy for the player to be unsure about how close is close enough for them to be considered “reunited,” so both friends pop up little “confirmation” chirps when they’re in the right spot. There’s no ambiguity. And in a free-form, physics-based game, there’s a LOT of potential for ambiguity.
posted by TangoCharlie at 9:44 AM on May 15, 2023 [4 favorites]
Now THAT’S what I’m here for. Little attention-to-detail features like that.
Related: I LOVE the design of the “help I’ve been separated from my friend” challenges. It would be easy for the player to be unsure about how close is close enough for them to be considered “reunited,” so both friends pop up little “confirmation” chirps when they’re in the right spot. There’s no ambiguity. And in a free-form, physics-based game, there’s a LOT of potential for ambiguity.
posted by TangoCharlie at 9:44 AM on May 15, 2023 [4 favorites]
Loved BOTW, but I also found it plateaued out in terms of interest once you got lots of hearts and stamina and strong weapons.
After about 10 hours of playing TOTK, this definitely seems more creative than combative. More lighthearted and silly.
My rough thought process (roughly):
Crap, why did this have to come out right before the most beautiful weekend of the year so far?
Wait, we’re starting with a million hearts again? Yawn. Oh, back to 3 and almost naked, good.
I hope it’s not all these fragile robots to fight. Ohh, haha, ouch, gonna be a while before we take on a moblin camp. Even the red ones.
I wish you could zip through these cutscenes at 1.5x like a podcast. They seem even slower than BOTW.
This ceiling-swimming thing sure is handy, but still feels kind of…lame? Mildly cheat-y.
Seems to be lots of running long distances so far; gonna use horses more I think. (Hi Cocoa!)
On that note, where’s my hang glider!?
posted by gottabefunky at 11:08 AM on May 15, 2023
After about 10 hours of playing TOTK, this definitely seems more creative than combative. More lighthearted and silly.
My rough thought process (roughly):
Crap, why did this have to come out right before the most beautiful weekend of the year so far?
Wait, we’re starting with a million hearts again? Yawn. Oh, back to 3 and almost naked, good.
I hope it’s not all these fragile robots to fight. Ohh, haha, ouch, gonna be a while before we take on a moblin camp. Even the red ones.
I wish you could zip through these cutscenes at 1.5x like a podcast. They seem even slower than BOTW.
This ceiling-swimming thing sure is handy, but still feels kind of…lame? Mildly cheat-y.
Seems to be lots of running long distances so far; gonna use horses more I think. (Hi Cocoa!)
On that note, where’s my hang glider!?
posted by gottabefunky at 11:08 AM on May 15, 2023
Personally, I'm enjoying the ways in which players are getting their revenge on the Koroks. The rediscovery of the ancient Hylian art of korocketry has been fun to see.
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:39 AM on May 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:39 AM on May 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
Oh yeah, I think every rock korok puzzle ended with the korok getting brained by the rock in BotW too. "Ooh, some golden poop for Hestu! Gimme!" *bonk*
And watching the various physics based shenanigans people are getting up to on youtube is just perfect. I don't know that I'd ever have the drive to fuck around like that, but I love that some people are.
posted by Kyol at 11:56 AM on May 15, 2023
And watching the various physics based shenanigans people are getting up to on youtube is just perfect. I don't know that I'd ever have the drive to fuck around like that, but I love that some people are.
posted by Kyol at 11:56 AM on May 15, 2023
On that note, where’s my hang glider!?
This is one of the more evil development decisions - it is fully possible to miss the paraglider. Which, of course, makes the game that much harder.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:01 PM on May 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
This is one of the more evil development decisions - it is fully possible to miss the paraglider. Which, of course, makes the game that much harder.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:01 PM on May 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
like:
(all spoilery to various degrees, but not, like "and here's how the game ends", just stupid physics stunts)
And yeah, I was worried that I'd miss the hang glider after hearing that people didn't get it, but it's in the main quest path, I'm surprised people are missing it.
posted by Kyol at 12:04 PM on May 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
And yeah, I was worried that I'd miss the hang glider after hearing that people didn't get it, but it's in the main quest path, I'm surprised people are missing it.
posted by Kyol at 12:04 PM on May 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
This is one of the more evil development decisions - it is fully possible to miss the paraglider.
I assume the glider quest happens once you’re on the ground? Leaving the tutorial skyland without a glider and then seeing comments about it being missable has made me a little bit anxious.
posted by not just everyday big moggies at 12:09 PM on May 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
I assume the glider quest happens once you’re on the ground? Leaving the tutorial skyland without a glider and then seeing comments about it being missable has made me a little bit anxious.
posted by not just everyday big moggies at 12:09 PM on May 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
The rediscovery of the ancient Hylian art of korocketry has been fun to see.
Korok Space Program anyone?
posted by pwnguin at 12:13 PM on May 15, 2023 [4 favorites]
Korok Space Program anyone?
posted by pwnguin at 12:13 PM on May 15, 2023 [4 favorites]
I assume the glider quest happens once you’re on the ground?
That's right, yep. Just follow along what the folks in the first town you're likely to encounter tell you to do, and they'll give it to you.
posted by rifflesby at 12:26 PM on May 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
That's right, yep. Just follow along what the folks in the first town you're likely to encounter tell you to do, and they'll give it to you.
posted by rifflesby at 12:26 PM on May 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
My kid still plays BOTW and I'll play sometimes too so I'm still used to a Link that is pretty damn tough. Taking that attitude into TOTK has been an unlearning experience. I was stuck battling some constructs near the Ascend shrine on Friday morning. When I got back on Friday evening my kid was playing and was around the same area but instead of taking on that battle he just went to the shrine, got a new power, and went on his way. I showed him where the enemies were and how to get up there but then I threw a bomb flower and it blew up in front of me killing me. We had a laugh and then he continued exploring. He played some more over the weekend and I know he made it to Hyrule but not a lot more than that. I've also found that it is really hard to watch him play because he doesn't look around but doesn't stick to a goal either. He'll just arrive somewhere with one purpose and then go off somewhere else instead. It wasn't a big deal in BOTW because we had already beaten it and he's been spending the last few years wandering around. But in TOTK where there's so many new things to see and quests to complete he is both too aimless and not aimless enough for my liking. If nothing else it'll be interesting for us to see how our games diverge.
I don't think I realized how crap the weapons were until I killed a bokoblin and the arm was a way stronger weapon than anything I had. I don't think I've found anything with a higher attack yet but I'm avoiding battles a lot more now so that I can get on with exploring.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:26 PM on May 15, 2023
I don't think I realized how crap the weapons were until I killed a bokoblin and the arm was a way stronger weapon than anything I had. I don't think I've found anything with a higher attack yet but I'm avoiding battles a lot more now so that I can get on with exploring.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:26 PM on May 15, 2023
That's right, yep. Just follow along what the folks in the first town you're likely to encounter tell you to do, and they'll give it to you.
The game expects you to follow the breadcrumbs until you get the "well, here's a few places you can go now" quest (as you may recall, Breath of the Wild did something similar.) But, it doesn't railroad you there, so after you set the new Hyrule high dive record, you can go anywhere you want.
And in the process miss unlocking a key mechanic, as well as passing up The Precious.
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:27 PM on May 15, 2023
The game expects you to follow the breadcrumbs until you get the "well, here's a few places you can go now" quest (as you may recall, Breath of the Wild did something similar.) But, it doesn't railroad you there, so after you set the new Hyrule high dive record, you can go anywhere you want.
And in the process miss unlocking a key mechanic, as well as passing up The Precious.
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:27 PM on May 15, 2023
When do I get an, uh , shirt?
posted by tofu_crouton at 3:29 PM on May 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by tofu_crouton at 3:29 PM on May 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
When do I get an, uh , shirt?
You should find a toga-like top in your initial questing on Great Sky Island. Beyond that:
* You can buy a top once you get to Lookout Landing,
* There's a side quest to find clothes around Hyrule with enhancements - once you find that, you can get a shirt that way,
* There's a top with improved skydiving movement you can get for completing the lower time trial in a skydiving challenge.
* And you can always make your way to Hateno in the southeast.
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:39 PM on May 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
You should find a toga-like top in your initial questing on Great Sky Island. Beyond that:
* You can buy a top once you get to Lookout Landing,
* There's a side quest to find clothes around Hyrule with enhancements - once you find that, you can get a shirt that way,
* There's a top with improved skydiving movement you can get for completing the lower time trial in a skydiving challenge.
* And you can always make your way to Hateno in the southeast.
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:39 PM on May 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
Also, remember that Link has three clothing slots - shirt, pants, and accessory.
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:40 PM on May 15, 2023
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:40 PM on May 15, 2023
One of my favorite tiny details so far: Link's humming whenever he's cooking something.
So far, I've heard him hum the title theme and the Song of Storms.
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:43 PM on May 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
So far, I've heard him hum the title theme and the Song of Storms.
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:43 PM on May 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
I bought the Twilight Princess Link amiibo today and my first scan with it out of the box was Epona! Her horse stats are maxed out! Then when I registered her at a stable, I found my old horses from my BotW save file were imported over. That’s a nice touch.
One of my favorite tiny details so far: Link's humming whenever he's cooking something.
I’ve heard the NES Overworld theme, Epona’s theme from Ocarina, and the Ballad of the Wind Fish from Link’s Awakening.
posted by Servo5678 at 5:17 PM on May 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
One of my favorite tiny details so far: Link's humming whenever he's cooking something.
I’ve heard the NES Overworld theme, Epona’s theme from Ocarina, and the Ballad of the Wind Fish from Link’s Awakening.
posted by Servo5678 at 5:17 PM on May 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
Her horse stats are maxed out!
I managed to lose my BoTW Epona by summoning her in a zora domain creek, and unable to trot to a stable for registration. I hear she may be unable to wear a towing hitch?
posted by pwnguin at 6:02 PM on May 15, 2023
I managed to lose my BoTW Epona by summoning her in a zora domain creek, and unable to trot to a stable for registration. I hear she may be unable to wear a towing hitch?
posted by pwnguin at 6:02 PM on May 15, 2023
The thing for me, as an amiibo user, is that I'd get Epona about every 3rd or 4th day. Heck, I got her in my first round of amiibo draws after getting down to the mainland, so had to go hunt up a stable to register her.
Unfortunately I was an idiot and started a new BotW game on my main switch user and never even got as far as Kakariko on the second playthrough, so I'm going to miss out on any carryover features. Harumph.
posted by Kyol at 6:28 PM on May 15, 2023
Unfortunately I was an idiot and started a new BotW game on my main switch user and never even got as far as Kakariko on the second playthrough, so I'm going to miss out on any carryover features. Harumph.
posted by Kyol at 6:28 PM on May 15, 2023
A tip I got too late re getting Epona constantly with the amiibos: use them on a sky island or in the depths, where there are no stables. Apparently Epona won't spawn if there's no way to get her to a stable. (Meanwhile I managed to spawn two Eponas at Lookout Landing, oops.)
posted by yasaman at 7:21 PM on May 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by yasaman at 7:21 PM on May 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
Well, this came across my twitter. It's a reference to Cow Tools that many here will probably appreciate.
posted by hippybear at 7:41 AM on May 16, 2023
posted by hippybear at 7:41 AM on May 16, 2023
It seems my link didn't work. This should be the correct one.
posted by hippybear at 8:45 AM on May 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 8:45 AM on May 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
When do I get an, uh , shirt?
My son has refused to get a shirt. This is annoying my (adult) stepson to no end. It’s become a point of pride at this point: he’s gonna play shirtless as long as he can get away with it. No Shirt Link ftw. Did I mention my son is 14? Yep. That’s my boy.
posted by Mchelly at 9:27 AM on May 16, 2023 [6 favorites]
My son has refused to get a shirt. This is annoying my (adult) stepson to no end. It’s become a point of pride at this point: he’s gonna play shirtless as long as he can get away with it. No Shirt Link ftw. Did I mention my son is 14? Yep. That’s my boy.
posted by Mchelly at 9:27 AM on May 16, 2023 [6 favorites]
Yeah, practicality is going to make him put some damn clothes on sooner than later, as it's not hard to get shirts with useful buffs. I already have three - one (which I mentioned) that improves mobility while skydiving, one that boosts climb speed, and my latest find, a shirt that boosts attack power.
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:49 AM on May 16, 2023
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:49 AM on May 16, 2023
On missing the Paraglider (I think we're past the point of needing a spoiler tag for very early things now): I consider this a design flaw with the game, since a lot of the game world still expects you to have the glider, a lot of shrine puzzles, and a very early event with Impa on a different quest line. I did that before I got the glider, and had to go back to an old save to get back to the ground. (The glider is given to you before you can start unlocking towers and the map, so at least those won't be sure death for you.)
Over on our gaming blog Set Side B, I've started doing silly posts for TotK, under that tag. Two so far, probably a smattering more over time. When I get a stronger internet connection (maybe soon!) I may start streaming it. I'm always late to the party for internet things, but maybe fashionably so?
posted by JHarris at 11:14 AM on May 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
Over on our gaming blog Set Side B, I've started doing silly posts for TotK, under that tag. Two so far, probably a smattering more over time. When I get a stronger internet connection (maybe soon!) I may start streaming it. I'm always late to the party for internet things, but maybe fashionably so?
posted by JHarris at 11:14 AM on May 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
Yeah, honestly I'm kind of curious how you get into the caverns without a paraglider to break your fall. Might be an interesting challenge run in the future though, to be sure. And I'm not sure that you could say you _miss_ it unless if the quest disappears when you go off to flirt with Sidon first.
I love how the weapons have new and weird buffs like extra damage at low HP or less stamina drain for special attacks.
posted by Kyol at 12:00 PM on May 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
I love how the weapons have new and weird buffs like extra damage at low HP or less stamina drain for special attacks.
posted by Kyol at 12:00 PM on May 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
I had to give up on a shrine because I couldn't figure out a way to solve it solely with the materials in the shrine. I've since gotten some Zonai devices that I think will do the trick but there will be lots of other shrines for me to do first.
Also, last night when I was playing a blood moon started up and I was pretty worried that the bokoblins I had just killed with great difficulty were going to come back. Also that a bunch of other enemies would show up. Thankfully that didn't happen but the cutscene was more worrying than the one from BOTW.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:35 PM on May 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
Also, last night when I was playing a blood moon started up and I was pretty worried that the bokoblins I had just killed with great difficulty were going to come back. Also that a bunch of other enemies would show up. Thankfully that didn't happen but the cutscene was more worrying than the one from BOTW.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:35 PM on May 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
The new blood moon cutscene deserves some fierce guitar shredding to accompany the spoken lines
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:08 PM on May 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:08 PM on May 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
any portmanteau in a storm, you can't pull out Zonai devices from your inventory while in a shrine. Also, all shrine devices seem to have infinite battery power.
posted by JHarris at 4:25 PM on May 16, 2023
posted by JHarris at 4:25 PM on May 16, 2023
I still occasionally chuckle to myself about how they really did actually decide that the sequel hook would be: what if, an even loster, even ancienter, even advanceder civilization
By this point Zelda is just a pyramid of civilizations all built on the ruins of the previous.
* Current day
* 100 years ago (when the Calamity struck and Link got wounded)
* 10,000 years before that (last time the Calamity happened)
* [I heard that BotW and TotK are in the "downfall" timeline, and follow the NES Zeldas, if that's the case, then is now]
* Ocarina of Time, when there is a kingdom so it has to be after the Zonai age (when the timelines split)
* Zonai times, the age of the first king of Hyrule
* Skyward Sword (reputed to be the first versions of Zelda and Link, when there was no kingdom)
* The time before Skyward Sword, when Zelda and Impa went back to and the Master Sword was created
* Whenever the creator goddesses in Ocarina of Time came and made the dang place
But honestly, I think there's no way the Zonai could come before Ocarina, realistically. Maybe the kingdom of Hyrule ended and was refounded by the Zonai? We're back in the days really before Aonuma tried to come up with a canon history, and I seem to remember that was back in the Wind Waker days. Maybe at this point the Zelda lore is a malleable history, like that of Runequest's Glorantha, that can actually change as its legends mutate over time.
posted by JHarris at 4:35 PM on May 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
By this point Zelda is just a pyramid of civilizations all built on the ruins of the previous.
* Current day
* 100 years ago (when the Calamity struck and Link got wounded)
* 10,000 years before that (last time the Calamity happened)
* [I heard that BotW and TotK are in the "downfall" timeline, and follow the NES Zeldas, if that's the case, then is now]
* Ocarina of Time, when there is a kingdom so it has to be after the Zonai age (when the timelines split)
* Zonai times, the age of the first king of Hyrule
* Skyward Sword (reputed to be the first versions of Zelda and Link, when there was no kingdom)
* The time before Skyward Sword, when Zelda and Impa went back to and the Master Sword was created
* Whenever the creator goddesses in Ocarina of Time came and made the dang place
But honestly, I think there's no way the Zonai could come before Ocarina, realistically. Maybe the kingdom of Hyrule ended and was refounded by the Zonai? We're back in the days really before Aonuma tried to come up with a canon history, and I seem to remember that was back in the Wind Waker days. Maybe at this point the Zelda lore is a malleable history, like that of Runequest's Glorantha, that can actually change as its legends mutate over time.
posted by JHarris at 4:35 PM on May 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
I found a shirt but my partner, who is further along than me, hasn't. Now he wants to purposefully go shirtless.
posted by tofu_crouton at 6:21 PM on May 16, 2023
posted by tofu_crouton at 6:21 PM on May 16, 2023
ROCKET SHIELD ROCKET SHIELD
posted by Mister Cheese at 10:50 AM on May 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Mister Cheese at 10:50 AM on May 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
This game is dangerously good... I woke up this morning with a new invention in mind and two hours disappeared.
Assuming building things spoilers are okay here - try dropping a good weapon and attaching it to the front (and back, and sides...) of a vehicle (best with the small wheels).
posted by lookoutbelow at 1:21 PM on May 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
Assuming building things spoilers are okay here - try dropping a good weapon and attaching it to the front (and back, and sides...) of a vehicle (best with the small wheels).
posted by lookoutbelow at 1:21 PM on May 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
JHarris my kid mentioned to me this morning that rockets exist and all of a sudden I realized what the two pointy things in that shrine were. I was just using them to stabilize a massive tower I was building to get me high enough to glide across a chasm.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:48 PM on May 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:48 PM on May 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
I was just using them to stabilize a massive tower I was building to get me high enough to glide across a chasm.
There is in fact a stabilizer tool that can be used to build towers and impromptu catapults. You can get them from the gatcha at Kakariko.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:34 PM on May 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
There is in fact a stabilizer tool that can be used to build towers and impromptu catapults. You can get them from the gatcha at Kakariko.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:34 PM on May 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
So what's the FUNNIEST thing you've built so far? Attaching a twig to the end of a sword and then hitting enemies with the twig instead of the sword is pretty funny. I also cracked up when a sentinel attacked me with a door. (I am not very far into the game.)
posted by tofu_crouton at 5:26 PM on May 17, 2023
posted by tofu_crouton at 5:26 PM on May 17, 2023
I suck at this game really, really badly, but last night I got to brag to my kid about my flamethrower korok balloon, so that's something!
posted by mittens at 4:51 AM on May 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by mittens at 4:51 AM on May 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
There’s an infinite items glitch that’s very easy to do and I suggest you all get on this before Nintendo patches it out, because they will patch it out. I spawned about 20 diamonds last night and sold them all for 500 rupees each.
posted by Servo5678 at 5:55 AM on May 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Servo5678 at 5:55 AM on May 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
For what it's worth if the duplication bug doesn't work, go do some other stuff and junk up the memory a bit. I spent a few hours this afternoon trying to get it to work with very _very_ limited success. So I said screw it and went off to do some shrines and exploration and whatever, and when I got out of the last shrine it worked 4 times in a row, with the same inputs and speeds.
(For what it's worth I have no shame about gaming the economy. "Hi, I'm only SAVING the world and everything maybe you could cut me a DISCOUNT??!?")
posted by Kyol at 6:23 PM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
(For what it's worth I have no shame about gaming the economy. "Hi, I'm only SAVING the world and everything maybe you could cut me a DISCOUNT??!?")
posted by Kyol at 6:23 PM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
here is a very cool bit of observation about the Depths, rot13ed in case you would like to avoid Noticing-related spoilers about the nature of the world
posted by DoctorFedora at 12:21 AM on May 19, 2023
posted by DoctorFedora at 12:21 AM on May 19, 2023
Absolutely loving it. Genuinely an achievement and the way they’ve unleashed user creativity is fascinating.
I still passionately hate weapon degradation. It’s like being covered in a thin film of rancid cooking oil while trying to play the otherwise best game I’ve played in years
posted by Ryvar at 4:51 AM on May 19, 2023
I still passionately hate weapon degradation. It’s like being covered in a thin film of rancid cooking oil while trying to play the otherwise best game I’ve played in years
posted by Ryvar at 4:51 AM on May 19, 2023
For whatever it's worth, it does feel like the monster scaling in TotK is a lot steeper than BotW. I keep running into armored black bokoblins while exploring, and I've only had two blood moons so it's not like I'm elbow deep in monster guts yet.
posted by Kyol at 5:33 AM on May 19, 2023
posted by Kyol at 5:33 AM on May 19, 2023
I'm finding the weapon degradation much less obtrusive this time around. I think it's purely for narrative reasons. In BotW, the weapons were so beautiful, and had been produced by cultures that were either diminished or destroyed. Using them always felt like it was making the world worse.
In TotK, I made them all out of junk. No worries! I'll make more!
posted by Hermione Dies at 6:07 AM on May 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
In TotK, I made them all out of junk. No worries! I'll make more!
posted by Hermione Dies at 6:07 AM on May 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
It does also seem like non-battle uses of weapons (breaking crates, chopping down trees, smacking switches, etc) has had a big nerf to the durability loss compared to BotW. I remember there was one golf-like shrine in BotW that had me break every last weapon in my upgraded inventory just smacking around a sheikah ball, and so far I'm not seeing that in TotK.
posted by Kyol at 6:46 AM on May 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Kyol at 6:46 AM on May 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
FUCK horse taming, fuck whoever designed it, and fuck the horse they rode in on.
posted by Ryvar at 4:41 AM on May 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Ryvar at 4:41 AM on May 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
I finished my 60th shrine a couple of nights ago. Weapon durability is still a big factor, I mentioned earlier it seemed worse to me and it still does. A problem with that (that goes back to BotW actually) is that many enemies feel like they're damage sponges. If you attack a monster with a weapon with a low power it'll take forever to shave down their health bar, even though they react to your attacks in exactly the same way as if you hit them with a strong weapon. It feels kind of arbitrary, that an attack that sends an enemy flying away does damage according to an abstract number on your weapon more than your action.
posted by JHarris at 8:48 AM on May 20, 2023
posted by JHarris at 8:48 AM on May 20, 2023
FUCK horse taming, fuck whoever designed it, and fuck the horse they rode in on.
Ryvar: May I present the TotK Horse Catcher 2000!
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 11:15 AM on May 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
Ryvar: May I present the TotK Horse Catcher 2000!
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 11:15 AM on May 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
I feel like I'm being a bit too negative here, sorry about that. On the plus side: the Sky has interesting things to find, and exploring the Depths and the weird relationships it has with the surface contain some of the most unique Zelda gameplay I've seen.
posted by JHarris at 2:23 PM on May 20, 2023
posted by JHarris at 2:23 PM on May 20, 2023
Man, the new shield surf duplication trick is waaaaaaay easier. Maybe a little tedious, but as long as you have a flat space to shuffle your inventory around, woo it's diamond city.
posted by Kyol at 6:51 AM on May 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Kyol at 6:51 AM on May 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
I feel like I'm missing out a lot, because I don't build very many things. Vehicles are hard to control, and I cannot see myself successfully using any construct in a fight against an enemy. So I'm just wandering around, getting killed a whole lot.
Is this just the experience, being low level and having low battery life? Or is everyone else out there, whoopping it up with their armored vehicles and siege weapons, while I'm just shooting everything with bomb flowers?
posted by meese at 11:28 AM on May 21, 2023
Is this just the experience, being low level and having low battery life? Or is everyone else out there, whoopping it up with their armored vehicles and siege weapons, while I'm just shooting everything with bomb flowers?
posted by meese at 11:28 AM on May 21, 2023
meese, it's not just you, enemies tend to do more damage generally, and you're a lot more likely to die when you get out of the tutorial region. When you encounter something big (something with a boss life bar), it's usually best to just run from it until you get to maybe at least 10 hearts or so.
Spoilers for getting through the early game:
* There's a bunch of shrines around the new town in central Hyrule. Unlike the first game where people could dedicate their character all to stamina, I think you'll find that hearts are more useful in the early game.
* If you have full hearts, you will nearly always survive any hit with at least a quarter-heart left, but you have to have full hearts. If you get bodied by an unexpected attack and left with a quarter-heart, immediately eat something that brings you back up to full to regain that protection, then get away from it.
* BotW had an unexplained mechanic where you gained invisible "experience points" as you killed enemies, but they didn't improve you, they improved the monsters. That's why the easy, low-health red versions of monsters like Bokoblins and Moblins, and the slightly easier basic Lynels, became rare in BotW after awhile, as you defeated monsters, the world would upgrade foes to blue, black, and eventually silver versions (gold in the Master Mode DLC). I think it's likely that TotK has a similar process, so by avoiding conflict while you're weak, you also keep monsters manageable for a while longer.
* On the other hand, the Fuse power lets you get stronger weapons a bit earlier. And bomb flowers, as attached to arrows, seem a bit stronger than the bombs from the Bomb Rune in BotW. (Certainly, it's easier to kill yourself with them.)
* To improve your armor, you have to get the Great Fairies out of their flower buds, which takes more than a cash payment in this game. It seems to be a lot easier to miss important subquests in this game (like missing the Paraglider because you didn't go to Hyrule Castle early on). The quest you need to start upgrading your armor requires that you go to the Lucky Clover offices in north-western Hyrule, near the Rito village, and talk to Penn. (Penn is terrific, BTW.) That'll start you getting a music group back together (it makes sense in the story), which involves some building with Ultrahand at each step, but just doing the first step opens up the first Great Fairy and lets you upgrade your armor a bit, which can be a huge aid. Note though, in addition to the ingredients, the G.F.s also charge you a bit of money for each upgrade.
* Money is rather harder to come by. As in BotW, most of your cash comes from selling gemstones. And as in BotW, a lot of those rupees end up getting spent on meal ingredients and arrows.
* Getting your battery improved takes ages it seems! You need 100 crystal charges for each extra bar, not each extra battery. The only ways I've found to get those is in chests of 20 in the Depths and bought 10 at a time for Zonaite in that one store in the tutorial sky area. I find it's a good idea to visit there periodically to buy it out (it's in the Mining Cave, the one with rail tracks leading into it), in the early stage of the game you have little use else for Zonaite anyway.
* I'd hold off on exploring the Depths until you've built your hearts and stamina up a bit. The rewards you get for exploring the Depths are completely different from those you get from exploring the overworld and sky. There don't seem to be any shrines in the deep underground, so you won't get hearts or stamina that way! Instead you mostly get Zonaite, which you won't even have a use for at that stage, and some chest contents that have armor and 20x crystal charges. (I'm only entering the midgame myself, I don't know if you ever find a use for all the Zonaite you find from mineral nodes and fighting monsters in the Depths, other than buying crystal charges 10 at a time.) Also you'll need a lot of brightbloom seeds to explore the Depths to any great degree, which you'll find mostly in caves in the overworld.
posted by JHarris at 12:05 PM on May 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
Spoilers for getting through the early game:
* There's a bunch of shrines around the new town in central Hyrule. Unlike the first game where people could dedicate their character all to stamina, I think you'll find that hearts are more useful in the early game.
* If you have full hearts, you will nearly always survive any hit with at least a quarter-heart left, but you have to have full hearts. If you get bodied by an unexpected attack and left with a quarter-heart, immediately eat something that brings you back up to full to regain that protection, then get away from it.
* BotW had an unexplained mechanic where you gained invisible "experience points" as you killed enemies, but they didn't improve you, they improved the monsters. That's why the easy, low-health red versions of monsters like Bokoblins and Moblins, and the slightly easier basic Lynels, became rare in BotW after awhile, as you defeated monsters, the world would upgrade foes to blue, black, and eventually silver versions (gold in the Master Mode DLC). I think it's likely that TotK has a similar process, so by avoiding conflict while you're weak, you also keep monsters manageable for a while longer.
* On the other hand, the Fuse power lets you get stronger weapons a bit earlier. And bomb flowers, as attached to arrows, seem a bit stronger than the bombs from the Bomb Rune in BotW. (Certainly, it's easier to kill yourself with them.)
* To improve your armor, you have to get the Great Fairies out of their flower buds, which takes more than a cash payment in this game. It seems to be a lot easier to miss important subquests in this game (like missing the Paraglider because you didn't go to Hyrule Castle early on). The quest you need to start upgrading your armor requires that you go to the Lucky Clover offices in north-western Hyrule, near the Rito village, and talk to Penn. (Penn is terrific, BTW.) That'll start you getting a music group back together (it makes sense in the story), which involves some building with Ultrahand at each step, but just doing the first step opens up the first Great Fairy and lets you upgrade your armor a bit, which can be a huge aid. Note though, in addition to the ingredients, the G.F.s also charge you a bit of money for each upgrade.
* Money is rather harder to come by. As in BotW, most of your cash comes from selling gemstones. And as in BotW, a lot of those rupees end up getting spent on meal ingredients and arrows.
* Getting your battery improved takes ages it seems! You need 100 crystal charges for each extra bar, not each extra battery. The only ways I've found to get those is in chests of 20 in the Depths and bought 10 at a time for Zonaite in that one store in the tutorial sky area. I find it's a good idea to visit there periodically to buy it out (it's in the Mining Cave, the one with rail tracks leading into it), in the early stage of the game you have little use else for Zonaite anyway.
* I'd hold off on exploring the Depths until you've built your hearts and stamina up a bit. The rewards you get for exploring the Depths are completely different from those you get from exploring the overworld and sky. There don't seem to be any shrines in the deep underground, so you won't get hearts or stamina that way! Instead you mostly get Zonaite, which you won't even have a use for at that stage, and some chest contents that have armor and 20x crystal charges. (I'm only entering the midgame myself, I don't know if you ever find a use for all the Zonaite you find from mineral nodes and fighting monsters in the Depths, other than buying crystal charges 10 at a time.) Also you'll need a lot of brightbloom seeds to explore the Depths to any great degree, which you'll find mostly in caves in the overworld.
posted by JHarris at 12:05 PM on May 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
Oh also:
* One thing I forgot to mention, in the Depths, you'll find these strange frozen-in-time dark figures, each carrying a weapon. When you examine one, the figure vanishes, leaving the weapon behind. What isn't obvious at first is these are undecayed weapons. Don't just use them as-is though, fuse something to them to make them even stronger and more durable.
* The most useful, relative to both power and frequency with which you find them, item I've found to glue to your stuff is Bokoblin horns, especially those from black Bokoblins. I've got a ton of those, and they provide a nice strength bonus. Remember you can sort your materials by how much power they'll give you if you fuse them to weapons, it's a good way to see what you can use effectively without being in danger of running out of them quickly.
posted by JHarris at 12:09 PM on May 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
* One thing I forgot to mention, in the Depths, you'll find these strange frozen-in-time dark figures, each carrying a weapon. When you examine one, the figure vanishes, leaving the weapon behind. What isn't obvious at first is these are undecayed weapons. Don't just use them as-is though, fuse something to them to make them even stronger and more durable.
* The most useful, relative to both power and frequency with which you find them, item I've found to glue to your stuff is Bokoblin horns, especially those from black Bokoblins. I've got a ton of those, and they provide a nice strength bonus. Remember you can sort your materials by how much power they'll give you if you fuse them to weapons, it's a good way to see what you can use effectively without being in danger of running out of them quickly.
posted by JHarris at 12:09 PM on May 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
Getting your battery improved takes ages it seems! You need 100 crystal charges for each extra bar, not each extra battery. The only ways I've found to get those is in chests of 20 in the Depths and bought 10 at a time for Zonaite in that one store in the tutorial sky area. I find it's a good idea to visit there periodically to buy it out (it's in the Mining Cave, the one with rail tracks leading into it), in the early stage of the game you have little use else for Zonaite anyway.
There are two much better shops in the Depths for crystallized charges as they allow you to buy 20 charges for three large Zonaite, up to 100 charges for 15 at one time. One of the shops is unlocked when you complete the quest to gain the last arm ability (which is amazing and the reason you want to stockpile zonaite), and the other is right under Kakariko.
Also while there are no shrines in the Depths, there are Lightroots, and there is a direct correlation between shrines on the Surface and lightroots in the Depths - so if you know where one is, you can note where the other is in the other region.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:59 PM on May 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
There are two much better shops in the Depths for crystallized charges as they allow you to buy 20 charges for three large Zonaite, up to 100 charges for 15 at one time. One of the shops is unlocked when you complete the quest to gain the last arm ability (which is amazing and the reason you want to stockpile zonaite), and the other is right under Kakariko.
Also while there are no shrines in the Depths, there are Lightroots, and there is a direct correlation between shrines on the Surface and lightroots in the Depths - so if you know where one is, you can note where the other is in the other region.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:59 PM on May 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
JHarris, unless your "it seems" was a feint to avoid giving anything away, something in your early-game tips suggests that you haven't yet explored much of the depths!
A bit more info, without giving away which thing you wrote would get modified by this:
And now giving away what this'll fix for you:
A side note: After getting just too annoyed by the (often grating, one-note-per-character) voice acting, I finally switched the spoken language from English to French, which at least so far has helped a ton. The subtitles stay in English. (It's a character in Goron City that finally pushed me over the edge, but it's nearly all pretty bad. And while I haven't had a chance to hear anything from that character since switching, Zelda herself at least comes off much better to my ear in the French.)
posted by nobody at 1:00 PM on May 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
A bit more info, without giving away which thing you wrote would get modified by this:
If you haven't been following any mysterious trails of large statues, as per Josha's early request, you should go and do that! (And note that if you followed one trail to a dead end, you -- like me -- just happened to stumble upon the one bad one to start with. It's a bit of a shame that Josha's dialogue doesn't at that point get updated with something like "well, that one didn't pan out, but I've gotten word there are other statues down there, too.")
And now giving away what this'll fix for you:
Battery upgrades! (Among other delightful surprises!)
A side note: After getting just too annoyed by the (often grating, one-note-per-character) voice acting, I finally switched the spoken language from English to French, which at least so far has helped a ton. The subtitles stay in English. (It's a character in Goron City that finally pushed me over the edge, but it's nearly all pretty bad. And while I haven't had a chance to hear anything from that character since switching, Zelda herself at least comes off much better to my ear in the French.)
posted by nobody at 1:00 PM on May 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
Also, if you're missing the mobility of Ravalli's Gale from BotW, there's a Zonai tech answer - fuse a rocket to your shield to get a one time massive skyward boost.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:10 PM on May 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:10 PM on May 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
On the Depths:
I've explored enough of the Depths that I've found a lot of Lightroots now, and I've noticed their relationship with shrines (well, most shrines?) but it's really easy to miss things in BotW-style games, and especially in the Depths. Like the people who missed Hestu, and thus inventory expansion, in BotW because they didn't travel along that one path that unlocks him. I've found two of the Poe dealer statues, several of the past-game-reference armor items (the ones that Amiibo unlocked in the first game), cleared out several Yiga camps, and have now finished a dungeon, but I still don't have a use for all those Zonaite chunks beyond buying them 10 at a time, and no use at all yet for the large chunks.
BTW, I love that if you can find a low enough ceiling in the Depths, you can use Rise and end up on the surface.
posted by JHarris at 2:12 PM on May 21, 2023
I've explored enough of the Depths that I've found a lot of Lightroots now, and I've noticed their relationship with shrines (well, most shrines?) but it's really easy to miss things in BotW-style games, and especially in the Depths. Like the people who missed Hestu, and thus inventory expansion, in BotW because they didn't travel along that one path that unlocks him. I've found two of the Poe dealer statues, several of the past-game-reference armor items (the ones that Amiibo unlocked in the first game), cleared out several Yiga camps, and have now finished a dungeon, but I still don't have a use for all those Zonaite chunks beyond buying them 10 at a time, and no use at all yet for the large chunks.
BTW, I love that if you can find a low enough ceiling in the Depths, you can use Rise and end up on the surface.
posted by JHarris at 2:12 PM on May 21, 2023
Also--I kind of love the Yiga Clan in this game? They're not so much Ganon-followers as just these people who have it in for the player personally for no good reason. They put up crude hand-drawn drawings of Link as a demon in their camps. They spin around on Zonai devices like doing doughnuts with pointless flamethrowers, and with names like Doom Machine. Their affection for bananas has at least tripled. And...
Have you checked the Shrine of Resurrection, from the first game, yet? One of the best Yiga Clan jokes in the game I've seen. Their ineptitude is adorable. It's a shame they force those tailors to make ninja suits for them, other than harassing the player for no good reason it's the only really evil thing I've seen them do so far.
posted by JHarris at 2:18 PM on May 21, 2023
Have you checked the Shrine of Resurrection, from the first game, yet? One of the best Yiga Clan jokes in the game I've seen. Their ineptitude is adorable. It's a shame they force those tailors to make ninja suits for them, other than harassing the player for no good reason it's the only really evil thing I've seen them do so far.
posted by JHarris at 2:18 PM on May 21, 2023
Oh, yeah, you've done a lot in the depths!
What drove me to follow the paths pointed to in my first details tags above was specifically Robbie refusing to move to a location promised in his dialogue since nearly his first appearance (with a promise of Purah Pad upgrades) until, he says, he can see how Josha's project turns out. So that pushed me to follow Josha's explicit quest line(s) early on.
To the designers' credit, I think there are at least five locations down there that give would each, if it's the first of them discovered, give you the thing(s) in question, so lots of chances to stumble upon one, even if not trying to head where/how Robbie was pointing.
Almost non-spoilery enough to keep out of details tags, but wrapping it up just in case:
Which is to say that I think there's a limit to how far one is likely to play without discovering the thing in question, but it's also definitely designed so that there's a good chance it'll take a while before you happen to get there, which makes what it gives you that much sweeter. (But given how much I think you've been playing, I suspect you'll be happy to have done it sooner vs later now, hence this extra prodding.)
posted by nobody at 3:22 PM on May 21, 2023
What drove me to follow the paths pointed to in my first details tags above was specifically Robbie refusing to move to a location promised in his dialogue since nearly his first appearance (with a promise of Purah Pad upgrades) until, he says, he can see how Josha's project turns out. So that pushed me to follow Josha's explicit quest line(s) early on.
To the designers' credit, I think there are at least five locations down there that give would each, if it's the first of them discovered, give you the thing(s) in question, so lots of chances to stumble upon one, even if not trying to head where/how Robbie was pointing.
Almost non-spoilery enough to keep out of details tags, but wrapping it up just in case:
Plus their locations aren't haphazard, vis a vis things above ground, so there's a chance you might head to one out of curiosity alone once you start noticing connections between above and below (and there's at least a handful of random-minor-character dialogue pointing to that connection, but that's so easy to lose track of, or get blended into connections you've already discovered).
Which is to say that I think there's a limit to how far one is likely to play without discovering the thing in question, but it's also definitely designed so that there's a good chance it'll take a while before you happen to get there, which makes what it gives you that much sweeter. (But given how much I think you've been playing, I suspect you'll be happy to have done it sooner vs later now, hence this extra prodding.)
posted by nobody at 3:22 PM on May 21, 2023
but I still don't have a use for all those Zonaite chunks beyond buying them 10 at a time, and no use at all yet for the large chunks.
The large chunks can be used to buy large crystallized charges from the Forge Constructs in the Depths - for three large chunks, you get 20 crystallized charges.
As for regular Zonaite, it is the fuel for the last arm power - Autobuild.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:03 PM on May 21, 2023
The large chunks can be used to buy large crystallized charges from the Forge Constructs in the Depths - for three large chunks, you get 20 crystallized charges.
As for regular Zonaite, it is the fuel for the last arm power - Autobuild.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:03 PM on May 21, 2023
Yeah, I feel the game's been leading up to Autobuild, I've even found several plans from chests in Yiga camps that I expect would be used with it, but nothing to do with them yet.
posted by JHarris at 5:12 PM on May 21, 2023
posted by JHarris at 5:12 PM on May 21, 2023
I do love that people have figured out how to build beam artillery to deal with the larger, more dangerous monsters.
Or, you know, to casually commit war crimes.
(That said, the fact that the response to 'korok' has been 'crucifixion' in many cases is...disturbing.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:08 PM on May 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Or, you know, to casually commit war crimes.
(That said, the fact that the response to 'korok' has been 'crucifixion' in many cases is...disturbing.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:08 PM on May 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Yeah, the Korok torture is funny because of how inappropriate and over-the-top it is, but that's going to cause people to lean into it to a disturbing degree, and people trying to get likes will go further and further in expressing their hatred for something that, truthfully, isn't really that annoying. Like how people made Navi seem like the worst character ever, because she said "Hey!" every five minutes.
posted by JHarris at 4:19 AM on May 22, 2023
posted by JHarris at 4:19 AM on May 22, 2023
Yeah, I feel the game's been leading up to Autobuild
Semi-spoiler but if you’ve done a lot of the Depths you should already have Autobuild. The location with it is only 3-4 lightroots out from the starting point if you entered as part of the main questline. You may need to backtrack.
posted by Ryvar at 4:44 AM on May 22, 2023
Semi-spoiler but if you’ve done a lot of the Depths you should already have Autobuild. The location with it is only 3-4 lightroots out from the starting point if you entered as part of the main questline. You may need to backtrack.
posted by Ryvar at 4:44 AM on May 22, 2023
Also thank Christ for shield surf duping. The grind for Link’s Zonai energy cell would be absolutely insane without Large Zonai cloning. 315 to cap unless my math is off:
7 cells costing 300 charges each, 300 charges costs 45 Large Zonai. 7 x 45 = 315 Large Zonai = 21 visits to the charges shop (at the place where you get Autobuild). You can use normal Zonai ore to boost this slightly (+30% / visit) but that’s terribly inefficient for charge purchasing and you should save those for Autobuild currency.
I’ve cloned enough Endura Carrots for my entire playthrough, I think, but I still need to clone 68 (shield dupe softcap due to 21 dropped item auto-despawn) Lynel horns and a certain boss’s bone Fuse before the dupe patch drops.
Side note: I’m an adult with a job and my guilt for fast-forwarding through the parts balanced for kids with endless free time is a negative value (…he wrote with 1300 hours logged in Elite Dangerous and 1800 in Warframe).
[rant/review]My love and hate for this game continue to war fiercely with no clear victor: when it’s good it’s so fucking good, it enables creative expression, it’s Nintendo letting their deathgrip relax ever so slightly after four fucking decades. The shit the community is doing with Ultrahand continues to astound and delight. It’s filled with profoundly annoying bullshit mechanics (horses), ridiculous grinds (Zonai), and just utter disregard for the player’s time (152 shrines, seriously?).
The camera never fucks up as badly as Horizon 2 in particularly hairy combat situations, and that on its own is worth a lot.
I wish this was a timeline where somehow the Elden Ring team was given a CCC (Camera, Controls, Combat - the core of game systems UX) and enemy attack anim telegraphing pass on the final product. And the Horizon 2 team was given a pass on character growth balance/metagame economy. Credit where it’s due: one of my chief complaints from BotW was the manifest superiority of Witcher 3’s open world encounter pacing, and that at least seems to have been remedied.[/rant]
posted by Ryvar at 5:21 AM on May 22, 2023
7 cells costing 300 charges each, 300 charges costs 45 Large Zonai. 7 x 45 = 315 Large Zonai = 21 visits to the charges shop (at the place where you get Autobuild). You can use normal Zonai ore to boost this slightly (+30% / visit) but that’s terribly inefficient for charge purchasing and you should save those for Autobuild currency.
I’ve cloned enough Endura Carrots for my entire playthrough, I think, but I still need to clone 68 (shield dupe softcap due to 21 dropped item auto-despawn) Lynel horns and a certain boss’s bone Fuse before the dupe patch drops.
Side note: I’m an adult with a job and my guilt for fast-forwarding through the parts balanced for kids with endless free time is a negative value (…he wrote with 1300 hours logged in Elite Dangerous and 1800 in Warframe).
[rant/review]My love and hate for this game continue to war fiercely with no clear victor: when it’s good it’s so fucking good, it enables creative expression, it’s Nintendo letting their deathgrip relax ever so slightly after four fucking decades. The shit the community is doing with Ultrahand continues to astound and delight. It’s filled with profoundly annoying bullshit mechanics (horses), ridiculous grinds (Zonai), and just utter disregard for the player’s time (152 shrines, seriously?).
The camera never fucks up as badly as Horizon 2 in particularly hairy combat situations, and that on its own is worth a lot.
I wish this was a timeline where somehow the Elden Ring team was given a CCC (Camera, Controls, Combat - the core of game systems UX) and enemy attack anim telegraphing pass on the final product. And the Horizon 2 team was given a pass on character growth balance/metagame economy. Credit where it’s due: one of my chief complaints from BotW was the manifest superiority of Witcher 3’s open world encounter pacing, and that at least seems to have been remedied.[/rant]
posted by Ryvar at 5:21 AM on May 22, 2023
Yeah, I turned off the auto-update system for this, at least until I'm bulked up enough to know what the pain point mats are. Like I keep about 8 of just about anything I like because it's relatively easy to maintain that level without ridiculous inventory juggling?
But yeah, same - I can and probably will sink over a hundred hours in this, easily, but I don't want those hours to be spent grinding out rare drops and mats and whatnot, and I'm definitely not going to sink a thousand hours into it because I only have so much time. I'm hoping some of the quality of life DLC stuff from BotW isn't gated behind master mode endgame monsters, though, because oof I already miss having the Ancient Saddle.
That said, I'll do my damndest to 100% the shrines, because I am 100% here for that shit. Well, maybe not the combat ones because I am _terribad_ at combat, but weird physics puzzles are extremely my thing.
posted by Kyol at 9:28 AM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
But yeah, same - I can and probably will sink over a hundred hours in this, easily, but I don't want those hours to be spent grinding out rare drops and mats and whatnot, and I'm definitely not going to sink a thousand hours into it because I only have so much time. I'm hoping some of the quality of life DLC stuff from BotW isn't gated behind master mode endgame monsters, though, because oof I already miss having the Ancient Saddle.
That said, I'll do my damndest to 100% the shrines, because I am 100% here for that shit. Well, maybe not the combat ones because I am _terribad_ at combat, but weird physics puzzles are extremely my thing.
posted by Kyol at 9:28 AM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
I had already explored the location that taught Autobuild it turns out (just a couple of days before), but was focused on something else so didn't notice the NPCs standing around. And it DARK.
posted by JHarris at 2:12 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by JHarris at 2:12 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
What's this? Even easier item duplication?!? Jeez.
posted by Kyol at 5:11 AM on May 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Kyol at 5:11 AM on May 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm continuing to wander around semi-aimlessly. I've done a fair bit of exploration of the depths which is how I stumbled on the Autobuild ability, and after briefly going to the Rito village but not doing anything quest related I'm now in Goron territory. My kid ended up finishing the boss above the Rito area yesterday, I helped him a bit to navigate the puzzles but fell asleep during the boss battle.
Any cool tricks for defeating a Stone Talus? There's one in a cave that I want to defeat.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:49 AM on May 23, 2023
Any cool tricks for defeating a Stone Talus? There's one in a cave that I want to defeat.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:49 AM on May 23, 2023
The traditional ones are pretty straightforward for me - blast the little rock sticking out of their heads with an arrow to stun them, then climb up on them and wail on the rock with a cobble crusher or similar spin-to-win weapon, repeat until they're down.
I'm still struggling with battle taluses, on the other hand. I got into the rhythm of using rewind to throw their boulders back at them, but it still demanded faster reaction times than I'm reliably capable of. And you have to clear their bokoblin buddies before they get into that phase and ... I dunno, here's a bomb flower or two? (Which is something I kinda love about the underworld - there are so many useful weapon plants down there, so there's more reason to just noodle around down there rather than it being 100% quest oriented.)
And yeah, I keep having a goal like "ok let's go unlock a lookout tower or two or three" and next thing I know I've passed two koroks, a cave, an interesting looking house, and maybe skirted a talus or hinox, is it any wonder I'm easily distracted?
It looks like the current speedrun WR is 1h14m. I'm looking forward to finishing the game so I can see just how much the speedrunners run past, and also seeing how much time they cut off of that as they figure out, like, any optimizations.
posted by Kyol at 12:20 PM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm still struggling with battle taluses, on the other hand. I got into the rhythm of using rewind to throw their boulders back at them, but it still demanded faster reaction times than I'm reliably capable of. And you have to clear their bokoblin buddies before they get into that phase and ... I dunno, here's a bomb flower or two? (Which is something I kinda love about the underworld - there are so many useful weapon plants down there, so there's more reason to just noodle around down there rather than it being 100% quest oriented.)
And yeah, I keep having a goal like "ok let's go unlock a lookout tower or two or three" and next thing I know I've passed two koroks, a cave, an interesting looking house, and maybe skirted a talus or hinox, is it any wonder I'm easily distracted?
It looks like the current speedrun WR is 1h14m. I'm looking forward to finishing the game so I can see just how much the speedrunners run past, and also seeing how much time they cut off of that as they figure out, like, any optimizations.
posted by Kyol at 12:20 PM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
The speedrun goes from the tutorial island straight down to loot the castle on the surface for some good weapons and stuff to fuse, and then dives right down into the endgame chasm. (The one I saw posted last night skips the paraglider, too.) It requires some of the same parry-and-flurry-rush combat skills as BOTW, because the runner is using specific fusions that grant attack bonuses at low health, and then standing in the gloom until they're down to one heart, so one wrong move is death.
What will be more interesting to me is to see how the speedtech glitches affect the higher category runs, like an All Main Quests run, an All Shrines, etc.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 12:44 PM on May 23, 2023
What will be more interesting to me is to see how the speedtech glitches affect the higher category runs, like an All Main Quests run, an All Shrines, etc.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 12:44 PM on May 23, 2023
I'm OK with the Taluses in BOTW because my Link has a lot more hearts and much better weapons. I tried one battle in the cave and wasn't getting far enough so maybe I have to battle better or wait until I get a few more hearts.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:59 PM on May 23, 2023
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:59 PM on May 23, 2023
Talus: bow, bomb flower, repeat 8-12x. Bomb flowers are everywhere in the depths so this shouldn’t be a resource chokepoint in anything like normal play.
posted by Ryvar at 2:03 PM on May 23, 2023
posted by Ryvar at 2:03 PM on May 23, 2023
I find you can still never have too many bomb flowers, they're more powerful than the bombs in BotW and nearly universally useful. Enemy camp? Bomb arrow! Fire Temple boss? Bomb arrow! Like Like? etc.
It's gratifying that TotK has sold so well. I imagine that BotW has picked up in sales again too because of it. Nintendo has been doing excellently with the Switch, after the Wii U failed so disastrously. There are things about the Switch's design I don't like (I've had severe problems with stick drift with many controllers both first and third party, and the great sense of fun that they had with the 3DS's many features is nowhere to be seen in the Switch's plain-jane interface), but the games have been great. I expect their next system will be announced soon, I'm sure it'll be a dud since that seems to be the pattern for Nintendo consoles lately, a hit then a miss, but in a way it's just amazing that they're still in business, in many ways the same Nintendo from the Donkey Kong days.
posted by JHarris at 2:35 PM on May 23, 2023
It's gratifying that TotK has sold so well. I imagine that BotW has picked up in sales again too because of it. Nintendo has been doing excellently with the Switch, after the Wii U failed so disastrously. There are things about the Switch's design I don't like (I've had severe problems with stick drift with many controllers both first and third party, and the great sense of fun that they had with the 3DS's many features is nowhere to be seen in the Switch's plain-jane interface), but the games have been great. I expect their next system will be announced soon, I'm sure it'll be a dud since that seems to be the pattern for Nintendo consoles lately, a hit then a miss, but in a way it's just amazing that they're still in business, in many ways the same Nintendo from the Donkey Kong days.
posted by JHarris at 2:35 PM on May 23, 2023
Talus: bow, bomb flower, repeat 8-12x.
Or attach a cannon to a spear to make a Hyrulian Javelin.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:40 PM on May 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
Or attach a cannon to a spear to make a Hyrulian Javelin.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:40 PM on May 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
Or use Autobuild to make you some Zonaite based explosives.
Or make a Hyrulian AC-130, and show that Talus what Freedom(TM) means.
Seriously, the build tools are insane.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:43 PM on May 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
Or make a Hyrulian AC-130, and show that Talus what Freedom(TM) means.
Seriously, the build tools are insane.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:43 PM on May 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
Honestly, one of my favorite builds is the hoverbike - one control pad, two fans, and you have a very effective exploration vehicle. And you can add brightblooms for nav in the Depths.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:53 PM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:53 PM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Looks like I should battle better and just use some resources instead of hoarding them. Also I should start building stuff instead of playing like it is BOTW.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:55 PM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:55 PM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I was surprised to discover that I only had a digital copy of BotW (I think I gave my original physical to my grandson? "play this, it's the best", I said to him, "here's a DLC download code"), so I picked it up again for $40 (god bless TotK-release week sales!) just to have an actual physical copy when the servers finally go down in 2030 or whatever.
I mean, my Switch's battery will be long-frickin-dead by then, but I'll have the media! Honestly I sort of wish Nintendo would release a Switch TV for us home gamers. Cartridge slot, SD card slot, power in and HDMI out, and some USB ports for controller pairing. No screen, no controllers, no dock, no hard to replace battery to eventually kick the bucket, $200 BYOC.
Nintendo would never do it, of course, they have their vision and by god that's the one true way to play, I know.
posted by Kyol at 2:58 PM on May 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
I mean, my Switch's battery will be long-frickin-dead by then, but I'll have the media! Honestly I sort of wish Nintendo would release a Switch TV for us home gamers. Cartridge slot, SD card slot, power in and HDMI out, and some USB ports for controller pairing. No screen, no controllers, no dock, no hard to replace battery to eventually kick the bucket, $200 BYOC.
Nintendo would never do it, of course, they have their vision and by god that's the one true way to play, I know.
posted by Kyol at 2:58 PM on May 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
And yeah, I think this might be the game that's going to go the hardest on avoiding resource hoarding. "I might need that boss horn for a bigger fight in the future!" But, my dude, I tell myself, you got that boss' horn with pretty vanilla weapons in the first place, it's cool, you'll get another in the future again anyway.
posted by Kyol at 3:00 PM on May 23, 2023
posted by Kyol at 3:00 PM on May 23, 2023
Honestly, one of my favorite builds is the hoverbike - one control pad, two fans, and you have a very effective exploration vehicle.
This is the way. I use a small bulb in overworld so I can find it at night, and large gleambulb in the depths. Because of the lack of 45-pitch offset snap points there’s a lot of very finicky pixel-perfect fussing involved to get it such that you hop on and without touching any input it just takes off and flies forward and slightly up in a perfectly straight line. So freaking satisfying once you get it, though.
Once you have that, you can mount a single head+cannon upside-down under the forward fan and slap an additional fan at a 45-degree angle on the top-rear of the rear fan (parallel with the control stick base pad) …and you’ve got an 18-Zonaite bomber that handles ~75% as well as the classic hoverbike but demolishes enemy camps and is the most efficient possible bomber.
posted by Ryvar at 6:29 PM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
This is the way. I use a small bulb in overworld so I can find it at night, and large gleambulb in the depths. Because of the lack of 45-pitch offset snap points there’s a lot of very finicky pixel-perfect fussing involved to get it such that you hop on and without touching any input it just takes off and flies forward and slightly up in a perfectly straight line. So freaking satisfying once you get it, though.
Once you have that, you can mount a single head+cannon upside-down under the forward fan and slap an additional fan at a 45-degree angle on the top-rear of the rear fan (parallel with the control stick base pad) …and you’ve got an 18-Zonaite bomber that handles ~75% as well as the classic hoverbike but demolishes enemy camps and is the most efficient possible bomber.
posted by Ryvar at 6:29 PM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Because of the lack of 45-pitch offset snap points there’s a lot of very finicky pixel-perfect fussing involved to get it such that you hop on and without touching any input it just takes off and flies forward and slightly up in a perfectly straight line. So freaking satisfying once you get it, though.
Which is why once you get it, you favorite it in Autobuild so you never have to manually build it again.
Also, you can use stakes like overgrown bike maintenance racks to help you build.
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:49 PM on May 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
Which is why once you get it, you favorite it in Autobuild so you never have to manually build it again.
Also, you can use stakes like overgrown bike maintenance racks to help you build.
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:49 PM on May 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
Ran into a video claiming to build a hoverstick with a less than 45 degree offset. And then another video saying hoverbikes are better. It's quite amazing how much nerdery goes on about how to best combine three simple pieces in a game with a couple hundred.
posted by pwnguin at 10:11 AM on May 24, 2023
posted by pwnguin at 10:11 AM on May 24, 2023
Oh, and a few ideas for the DLC even though I'm nowhere near done with the game:
1. Schema card / amiibo. Favorite a build IRL, and share it. There's tons of builds people want to show off, share and borrow, and this approach continues Nintendo's affintiy for sneakernet as a way of avoiding liability for the parade of dick pics the online communities demand.
2. Integrate Labo. So many possibilities. Labo on vehicles would be rad to throttle fans, and fire weapons on command. Labo on the automation bot / sentry head to solve a maze could be interesting. Also, probably required to build a functional giant death robot with elbows and knees.
3. Make Korok Space Program real. Help a little guy reach his friend on the moon. All you really need is self-destruct material that doesn't tear the whole damn thing apart like timed bombs do. And I guess if that material can divide the construct into sections and delay activation until the self-destruct fires, that would be enough to make those rockets into sustained burn instead of JATO.
posted by pwnguin at 10:39 AM on May 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
1. Schema card / amiibo. Favorite a build IRL, and share it. There's tons of builds people want to show off, share and borrow, and this approach continues Nintendo's affintiy for sneakernet as a way of avoiding liability for the parade of dick pics the online communities demand.
2. Integrate Labo. So many possibilities. Labo on vehicles would be rad to throttle fans, and fire weapons on command. Labo on the automation bot / sentry head to solve a maze could be interesting. Also, probably required to build a functional giant death robot with elbows and knees.
3. Make Korok Space Program real. Help a little guy reach his friend on the moon. All you really need is self-destruct material that doesn't tear the whole damn thing apart like timed bombs do. And I guess if that material can divide the construct into sections and delay activation until the self-destruct fires, that would be enough to make those rockets into sustained burn instead of JATO.
posted by pwnguin at 10:39 AM on May 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
Labo? Nintendo Labo? There's something I'm not following.
posted by JHarris at 1:40 PM on May 24, 2023
posted by JHarris at 1:40 PM on May 24, 2023
The Labo “Variety Kit” includes a motorcycle toy-con that you can use as a Mario Kart controller. The Robot Kit likewise lets you control a giant robot in a video game.
posted by mbrubeck at 1:49 PM on May 24, 2023
posted by mbrubeck at 1:49 PM on May 24, 2023
So then, use Labo as an analog controller for controlling things? I'm trying to imagine how a cardboard-based construction kit would interact with Ultrahand gizmos.
posted by JHarris at 1:51 PM on May 24, 2023
posted by JHarris at 1:51 PM on May 24, 2023
Try using Rise on the battle taluses (and regular ones actually).
posted by lookoutbelow at 10:01 AM on May 25, 2023
posted by lookoutbelow at 10:01 AM on May 25, 2023
Labo? Nintendo Labo? There's something I'm not following.
At some point Labo expanded to include a box and arrows programming model, which is the bit I think can be hoisted out after a retheming, and attached to vehicles.
posted by pwnguin at 11:23 AM on May 25, 2023
At some point Labo expanded to include a box and arrows programming model, which is the bit I think can be hoisted out after a retheming, and attached to vehicles.
posted by pwnguin at 11:23 AM on May 25, 2023
Aah okay. I should note that Game Builder Garage is almost entirely the programming parts of Nintendo Labo broken out into their own tool.
posted by JHarris at 5:19 PM on May 25, 2023
posted by JHarris at 5:19 PM on May 25, 2023
I posted it in the more recent thread but adding here that last night’s patch (1.1.2) fixes all known duping glitches. If you don’t fancy farming 675 Large Zonai Ore from the Depths to max Energy Cell power for your machines, now might be a good time to wrap that up.
posted by Ryvar at 8:24 AM on May 26, 2023
posted by Ryvar at 8:24 AM on May 26, 2023
That's a shame, although honestly after any trip to the Depths I'm nearly swimming in Zonaite. It's nearly the only ore that generates down there.
posted by JHarris at 9:27 AM on May 28, 2023
posted by JHarris at 9:27 AM on May 28, 2023
Also, I found out, after you finish your first dungeon, the Shekiah at Lookout Tower will remind you about following the statues that point you to Autobuild, so maybe they learned their lesson from people outright missing Hestu in BotW.
posted by JHarris at 9:33 AM on May 28, 2023
posted by JHarris at 9:33 AM on May 28, 2023
Yeah, it feels like TOTK got a much better "how will anybody _find_ this?" pass than BOTW got. "I dunno, let's have the NPCs drop hints, lets put map fragments in chests, let's sell previously amiibo-only armor" etc etc etc.
posted by Kyol at 5:37 PM on May 29, 2023
posted by Kyol at 5:37 PM on May 29, 2023
It's quite amazing how much nerdery goes on about how to best combine three simple pieces in a game
See also /r/hyruleengineering or /r/zonaibuilds
posted by yoHighness at 11:25 AM on May 30, 2023
See also /r/hyruleengineering or /r/zonaibuilds
posted by yoHighness at 11:25 AM on May 30, 2023
I had a frustrating experience last night where through normal exploration actually found my way into the Wind Temple before getting the bird kid ally that would let me progress in it. Link has so many movement options that I didn't find it all that difficult to get there, I only had to resort to Zonai objects once on the way there, and even then I just glued a rocket to my shield. The entrance terminal just doesn't work until you get young-and-birdy there.
I set a travel medallion at the dungeon entrance (the warp to go there doesn't work until the dungeon is activated proper), and further there's two shrines along the fairly long sequence of sky islands you must traverse to get into the dungeon.
So I left the dungeon, and went about finding where Jim Henson's Birdy Baby was hanging out. Once they were following, I tried warping to the dungeon entrance, but got a brief cutscene where the parakeet-whose-name-I-cant-remember said they couldn't follow, then Link teleported before I could stop him. So, I tried teleporting to one of the shines on the way there, and got another message from birdboy saying they were following now, but I couldn't find him.
It turns out the character had positioned himself at a generic location along the path to the dungeon, and I had to retrace my steps to get him out of limbo, which was annoying, but better than being softlocked, which I was beginning to worry had happened. This kind of thing has led me to see TotK as being a bit less well-designed than BotW was.
Also, in the story, it feels a lot like the game is trying to outright reboot the Legend of Zelda series. I am finding it hard to reconcile the story with that "Zelda timeline" thing they said they were following, because if Hyrule's first king was a goat, and Ganondorf got started during Rauru's* time, then where does that leave Ocarina of Time?
(My favorite joke about Rauru's name, from way back after Zelda II's release, was it sounded like a dog with a toothache. I think I read it in some old magazine.)
posted by JHarris at 1:18 PM on May 30, 2023
I set a travel medallion at the dungeon entrance (the warp to go there doesn't work until the dungeon is activated proper), and further there's two shrines along the fairly long sequence of sky islands you must traverse to get into the dungeon.
So I left the dungeon, and went about finding where Jim Henson's Birdy Baby was hanging out. Once they were following, I tried warping to the dungeon entrance, but got a brief cutscene where the parakeet-whose-name-I-cant-remember said they couldn't follow, then Link teleported before I could stop him. So, I tried teleporting to one of the shines on the way there, and got another message from birdboy saying they were following now, but I couldn't find him.
It turns out the character had positioned himself at a generic location along the path to the dungeon, and I had to retrace my steps to get him out of limbo, which was annoying, but better than being softlocked, which I was beginning to worry had happened. This kind of thing has led me to see TotK as being a bit less well-designed than BotW was.
Also, in the story, it feels a lot like the game is trying to outright reboot the Legend of Zelda series. I am finding it hard to reconcile the story with that "Zelda timeline" thing they said they were following, because if Hyrule's first king was a goat, and Ganondorf got started during Rauru's* time, then where does that leave Ocarina of Time?
(My favorite joke about Rauru's name, from way back after Zelda II's release, was it sounded like a dog with a toothache. I think I read it in some old magazine.)
posted by JHarris at 1:18 PM on May 30, 2023
There's been some spoiler heavy discussion in r/TOTK about how this closes out the current trilogy and blah blah, but I haven't gone to read too deeply because I'm still rocking my way through the story the first time. That said, I've always found the Zelda canon chronology confusing as frig and am mostly glad for the hypernerds who seem to make sense out of it, I guess?
I've basically hit the sweet spot where I have to go looking for trouble, and the everyday overworld bosses are mostly a speedbump? I'd love to see a deep dive on all the various ways the game scales, beyond the obvious red -> blue -> black -> silver monster upgrades and weapon and armor upgrades. I mean, on the one hand it feels like, sure, I'm just getting better and not getting roflstomped as easily as I was 10 hours ago, it's all down to my abilities, me me me! On the other hand, no, I'm fairly sure I'm still flailing helplessly at the controls, but 10 hearts gives me more leeway and a healthy inventory means I can eat more raw meat than a keto enthusiast if I do get tagged and and and.
posted by Kyol at 6:03 PM on May 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
I've basically hit the sweet spot where I have to go looking for trouble, and the everyday overworld bosses are mostly a speedbump? I'd love to see a deep dive on all the various ways the game scales, beyond the obvious red -> blue -> black -> silver monster upgrades and weapon and armor upgrades. I mean, on the one hand it feels like, sure, I'm just getting better and not getting roflstomped as easily as I was 10 hours ago, it's all down to my abilities, me me me! On the other hand, no, I'm fairly sure I'm still flailing helplessly at the controls, but 10 hearts gives me more leeway and a healthy inventory means I can eat more raw meat than a keto enthusiast if I do get tagged and and and.
posted by Kyol at 6:03 PM on May 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
My kid spent like half an hour riding on a dragon yesterday. He rode it and then it went through the depths and I'd be pointing out stuff in the distance that he could go to but he wanted the dragon to take it back to its lair. The dragon emerged and started flying above Hyrule and again I was pointing out things he could go to but he wasn't having it. Then the dragon started to descend back into the same chasm to get to the depths as it did in the beginning so it was just doing a loop with no lair. He got some dragon stuff out of it but otherwise it was a big waste of time.
He's been doing some Zonai device experimentation and hasn't made any really neat things yet but he'll definitely get there before I do because so far I've only been making things with them when I've had no other choice.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:03 PM on June 5, 2023
He's been doing some Zonai device experimentation and hasn't made any really neat things yet but he'll definitely get there before I do because so far I've only been making things with them when I've had no other choice.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:03 PM on June 5, 2023
Yeah, I keep catching Naydra on their way down into the depths, which is the half of the route I'm less interested in. I guess I should just ride them through the depths to get a sightseeing tour of Hyrule eventually.
posted by Kyol at 12:49 PM on June 5, 2023
posted by Kyol at 12:49 PM on June 5, 2023
You can use Autobuild to rapidly harvest apples by gluing a few together to make a template, then invoking it to pull the apples off the tree.
Attaching a Hover Platform to an arrow will cause it to spawn when shot. This can be combined with Ascend to quickly gain height.
You can tear Flux Constructs apart with Ultrahand, and if you get ahold of the core block, you can shake it to pieces.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:31 PM on June 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
Attaching a Hover Platform to an arrow will cause it to spawn when shot. This can be combined with Ascend to quickly gain height.
You can tear Flux Constructs apart with Ultrahand, and if you get ahold of the core block, you can shake it to pieces.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:31 PM on June 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
Also, the only weapons that can spawn as pristine are ones you've broken.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:37 PM on June 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:37 PM on June 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
Flux Constructs II and III are really annoying when they get into their mode where they're really high up, it's too high to Ascend to get up to them and I have to rocket shield up to them. I think eventually that mode times out, but it takes so long that I usually just shield up. Fortunately, once I'm up there I can usually destroy most of the core block quickly.
I'm finding the charge attack of the heavy sword weapon to be really useful. If a boss is stunned and vulnerable and you can get through the lengthy charge-up period of the weapon, you can deliver a bunch of strong hits quickly.
Most of my problems with TotK are the parts where I was already annoyed with Breath of the Wild's way of doing things, and instead of fixing them they left them in or even made them slightly worse, like a spot of skin that's already been rubbed raw and is tender to touch. (Alliteration yay.) Like how so many of Link's moves are long and uninterruptable, if you miskey and start up a long attack, then a petty Bokoblin comes up and smacks you out of it.
Sometimes it feels like a lot of your rewards are fake, just pointers to other rewards. Old Maps lead you to places in the Depths where you can find neat equipment. Shrines that are hard to get to, then inside you end up having to do another puzzle. (Some of these shrines are Blessings, but not all.)
Money was very tight in BotW, so I'm surprised that it's even tighter in TotK. While it's good that the game is no longer stingy about shops giving you arrows when you already have a lot of them, now if you break open several gem nodes in a row, each gives you less and less stuff, and that's infuriating, especially when you're in a cave with a lot of them: the first rare node gives you several gems, but the second only gives you a couple, and from there you mostly just get amber, rock salt and flint, bah. Zonaite mines in the Depths are especially bad for this.
In BotW you end up having to sell a bunch of monster parts and gems to get money to fund basic adventuring, especially keeping yourself supplied with arrows (five rupees apiece?? I'm sure it's supply chain challenges) but then later it turns out that some guy in a village wants them, or a Great Fairy wants them to upgrade your pants or something, or you should have saved up 10 of them to sell to that Gerudo in Goron Town and gotten even more money from them. Previous Zelda games were always so lavish with money and you were always overfilling your wallet, but now your wallet maxes out at 99,999 but you rarely find money in chests anymore!
Really, the arrow racket in Hyrule is terrible, there's so many miscellaneous uses for arrows, especially in the Depths where I rely on attaching light seeds to them to see where I'm going. Is that shot at a Blupee going to be worth the money I spent on the arrow? I hate performing cost-benefit analysis with my ammo.
posted by JHarris at 2:41 PM on June 5, 2023
I'm finding the charge attack of the heavy sword weapon to be really useful. If a boss is stunned and vulnerable and you can get through the lengthy charge-up period of the weapon, you can deliver a bunch of strong hits quickly.
Most of my problems with TotK are the parts where I was already annoyed with Breath of the Wild's way of doing things, and instead of fixing them they left them in or even made them slightly worse, like a spot of skin that's already been rubbed raw and is tender to touch. (Alliteration yay.) Like how so many of Link's moves are long and uninterruptable, if you miskey and start up a long attack, then a petty Bokoblin comes up and smacks you out of it.
Sometimes it feels like a lot of your rewards are fake, just pointers to other rewards. Old Maps lead you to places in the Depths where you can find neat equipment. Shrines that are hard to get to, then inside you end up having to do another puzzle. (Some of these shrines are Blessings, but not all.)
Money was very tight in BotW, so I'm surprised that it's even tighter in TotK. While it's good that the game is no longer stingy about shops giving you arrows when you already have a lot of them, now if you break open several gem nodes in a row, each gives you less and less stuff, and that's infuriating, especially when you're in a cave with a lot of them: the first rare node gives you several gems, but the second only gives you a couple, and from there you mostly just get amber, rock salt and flint, bah. Zonaite mines in the Depths are especially bad for this.
In BotW you end up having to sell a bunch of monster parts and gems to get money to fund basic adventuring, especially keeping yourself supplied with arrows (five rupees apiece?? I'm sure it's supply chain challenges) but then later it turns out that some guy in a village wants them, or a Great Fairy wants them to upgrade your pants or something, or you should have saved up 10 of them to sell to that Gerudo in Goron Town and gotten even more money from them. Previous Zelda games were always so lavish with money and you were always overfilling your wallet, but now your wallet maxes out at 99,999 but you rarely find money in chests anymore!
Really, the arrow racket in Hyrule is terrible, there's so many miscellaneous uses for arrows, especially in the Depths where I rely on attaching light seeds to them to see where I'm going. Is that shot at a Blupee going to be worth the money I spent on the arrow? I hate performing cost-benefit analysis with my ammo.
posted by JHarris at 2:41 PM on June 5, 2023
On Sunday when I was playing I had something like 50 arrows and my son was super amazed by that. By the end of playing today I'm all out of arrows, although in fairness I did use the arrows beating two of the bosses and working my way to a third temple.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 3:41 PM on June 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 3:41 PM on June 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
A good stretch of exploring underground can take me from 100 arrows to worrying about running out. And 100 arrows is 500 rupees, 600 if you buy them from Beedle, the convenience store of Hyrule.
posted by JHarris at 6:16 PM on June 5, 2023
posted by JHarris at 6:16 PM on June 5, 2023
Flux Constructs II and III are really annoying when they get into their mode where they're really high up, it's too high to Ascend to get up to them and I have to rocket shield up to them. I think eventually that mode times out, but it takes so long that I usually just shield up. Fortunately, once I'm up there I can usually destroy most of the core block quickly.The Soviets just
posted by DoctorFedora at 7:59 PM on June 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
Would that work though? The blocks that fall don't go up to the core block, they were connected to other blocks. Well, it's worth trying. The nice thing about rocketing up is that you get a nice long period of time to wail on the core block, and when it falls apart, you get _another_ long period of wailing on the core block while it's stunned. But it still costs a rocket to do it, and if you misjudge distances it's easy to hit your head on one of the flux blocks while rocketing up and mess up the whole thing.
posted by JHarris at 10:05 PM on June 5, 2023
posted by JHarris at 10:05 PM on June 5, 2023
yeah to clarify, the Recall approach is how I routinely take out Flux Constructs II and II — it's almost trivially easy once you figure out to do it
posted by DoctorFedora at 10:24 PM on June 5, 2023
posted by DoctorFedora at 10:24 PM on June 5, 2023
I have 500 arrows right now: I buy them from every merchant, I smash open basically every box I see, and also I use amiibo drops. The amiibo drops often give me a lot of meat: I cook that up into skewers and sell them, funding my arrow-buying habit. (I have since made use of the duplication glitch to dupe diamonds so now I have a nice nest egg for the purposes of buying armor upgrades and my new house.) All of which is to say, I am not hurting for arrows. Smash open all the boxes and barrels, y'all! It adds up!
posted by yasaman at 11:08 PM on June 5, 2023
posted by yasaman at 11:08 PM on June 5, 2023
yeah to clarify, the Recall approach is how I routinely take out Flux Constructs II and II — it's almost trivially easy once you figure out to do it
You can also hit the underside of the platform with a bomb arrow, which will make it fall to Ascend range.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:33 AM on June 6, 2023
You can also hit the underside of the platform with a bomb arrow, which will make it fall to Ascend range.
posted by NoxAeternum at 2:33 AM on June 6, 2023
There are two ways to harvest gems outside of mining. The first is wizzrobe hunting, as they will always have a "wand" with a topaz, ruby, or sapphire fused to it, which can then be taken to Tarrey Town to get the gem for 20 rupees. The second is dondon feeding - there's a small herd north of Lakeside Stable, and if you feed one a luminous stone, it will shit a precious stone.
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:43 AM on June 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:43 AM on June 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Tried the Recall trick with a Flux Construct III last night. Turns out the trick isn't to just send it back and expect it to do damage, as with arrows, but to ride the block up then you can do the heavy weapon charge attack trick for Massive Damage. (That's probably your highest damage move, all other things equal.)
Last night I was fighting the Frost Gleeok in Hebra, had to reload a couple of times to start over, and noticed, right when there was like three hits left, the big red moon hanging in the sky. A-R-G-H. At least I noticed it before I killed it, I went right back to the ground and stalled until the revive happened. I'm telling you, blood moons always happen at the worst times for me, it's much worse than it was in BotW. Why the heck do overworld bosses revive from blood moons again?
posted by JHarris at 2:28 PM on June 6, 2023
Last night I was fighting the Frost Gleeok in Hebra, had to reload a couple of times to start over, and noticed, right when there was like three hits left, the big red moon hanging in the sky. A-R-G-H. At least I noticed it before I killed it, I went right back to the ground and stalled until the revive happened. I'm telling you, blood moons always happen at the worst times for me, it's much worse than it was in BotW. Why the heck do overworld bosses revive from blood moons again?
posted by JHarris at 2:28 PM on June 6, 2023
Yep. I can only tell how I did it, but....
posted by JHarris at 5:19 PM on June 6, 2023
Arrow shots to the heads stun them. When a head's health bar is depleted it'll be stunned for awhile (not forever). If you get all three heads stunned at once, the whole thing falls out of the sky for a while onto the ground and gives you a while to wail on it. (I find charged spinning with heavy weapons provides a lot of damage output). Eventually it'll revive and you'll have to start over with stunning the heads.
The more damage you do, the more serious it gets about attacking you. They start with the lasers, and move up into type-specific attacks. Eventually it switches to hovering high in the sky, out of the range of most bows. Each attack (I've only done fire and ice so far mind you) seems to provide you a way to get up there and shoot the heads: fire, it's updrafts you can ride; ice, it's huge falling ice chunks that you can Recall and ride up.
It takes a lot of time, and you should be sure to have a lot of arrows going into it, at least fifty and preferably more, but it's doable. Having opposing element attachments for your arrows helps. I've heard some people have done it with as few as six arrows, or with the aid of Zonai death machines, but I'm too casual for such tricks.
The more damage you do, the more serious it gets about attacking you. They start with the lasers, and move up into type-specific attacks. Eventually it switches to hovering high in the sky, out of the range of most bows. Each attack (I've only done fire and ice so far mind you) seems to provide you a way to get up there and shoot the heads: fire, it's updrafts you can ride; ice, it's huge falling ice chunks that you can Recall and ride up.
It takes a lot of time, and you should be sure to have a lot of arrows going into it, at least fifty and preferably more, but it's doable. Having opposing element attachments for your arrows helps. I've heard some people have done it with as few as six arrows, or with the aid of Zonai death machines, but I'm too casual for such tricks.
posted by JHarris at 5:19 PM on June 6, 2023
Yeah, the guy I saw ...
Easy!
I decided to go finish off the regional quests before doing the master sword quest after gloom hands reached out and touched me in the depths while I hoofed it to the korok forest.
posted by Kyol at 6:43 AM on June 7, 2023
used an autobuild gleeok blind with boko bits in bullet time and silver lynel weapons.
Easy!
I decided to go finish off the regional quests before doing the master sword quest after gloom hands reached out and touched me in the depths while I hoofed it to the korok forest.
posted by Kyol at 6:43 AM on June 7, 2023
Oh frog, I hate Gloom Hands, they're basically unstoppable if you encounter one in the early game, and just annoying later on when you figure out how to handle them. (I stun with dazzlefruit arrows and then damage all the hands at once with bomb arrows.) Even worse, you often you end up having to fight a Phantom Ganon after beating a set of them. There's one Gloom Hands cluster that always seems to lead to a Phantom Ganon fight somewhere in each of the three labyrinths. At least you get an excellent bow out of it, and usually a strong melee weapon too if you don't mind taking a touch of gloom damage when you attack with it.
posted by JHarris at 7:01 AM on June 7, 2023
posted by JHarris at 7:01 AM on June 7, 2023
Yeah, and I'm sort of figuring out how to mitigate gloom damage, because that sort of negates my usual flailing boss fight strategy, which is to eat my way through the pain. HOW MANY STEAKS CAN ONE LINK EAT? all of 'em, that's how many. It looks like it's not easy, but it's doable.
And yeah, I'd read about bombing them, but I couldn't get enough distance on them. But I've been doing my usual "I might need that _later_" loot mongering instead of trying new things. Hrmph.
posted by Kyol at 8:19 AM on June 7, 2023
And yeah, I'd read about bombing them, but I couldn't get enough distance on them. But I've been doing my usual "I might need that _later_" loot mongering instead of trying new things. Hrmph.
posted by Kyol at 8:19 AM on June 7, 2023
The Depths armor will give you gloom protection, as will food made with the Dark Clumps that gloom hands leave behind.
(It's best if you don't think too hard about what such a dish would be like.)
And as I said before, having Caught Those Hands several times is why I keep at least one Hylian Javelin in my weapon inventory, because it's nice to be able to whip it out and demonstrate the glories of superior firepower.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:33 AM on June 7, 2023
(It's best if you don't think too hard about what such a dish would be like.)
And as I said before, having Caught Those Hands several times is why I keep at least one Hylian Javelin in my weapon inventory, because it's nice to be able to whip it out and demonstrate the glories of superior firepower.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:33 AM on June 7, 2023
Also, cooking a sundilion into a dish will grant it gloom damage restoration. (There's a quest in Kakariko that is designed to teach you this explicitly.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:42 AM on June 7, 2023
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:42 AM on June 7, 2023
As for fighting gleeoks, the secret sauce are keese eyeballs to give your arrows homing.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:48 AM on June 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:48 AM on June 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
Oh, and my sort of problem, structurally, about the game is that while the depths seem like a fun, if terrifying, fully realized and integrated part of the game, there's a lot of stuff that sort of wants you to go to the sky islands for mats, and they're just sort of... I dunno, a combination of boss battle arenas and tiny little fairy pools and the occasional shrine. I don't mind screwing around in the depths for bombs and muddles and puffshrooms, it's a fun creep-and-loot, but the sky just doesn't grab me. I mean I'm sure at least some of that is latent fear of heights type stuff, even in a game where it's easy to mitigate fall damage - if I fall from here it's going to be a half a damn hour of gliding from here to here and making glider apparatuses and just barely catching the edge of a island and fuckit lemme go do almost anything else instead.
posted by Kyol at 8:57 AM on June 7, 2023
posted by Kyol at 8:57 AM on June 7, 2023
One word - airbike.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:23 AM on June 7, 2023
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:23 AM on June 7, 2023
airbike
oh for the love of-- here i've been wasting balloons and flame emitters like a chump.
posted by mittens at 10:00 AM on June 7, 2023
oh for the love of-- here i've been wasting balloons and flame emitters like a chump.
posted by mittens at 10:00 AM on June 7, 2023
Oh, I know, but it just feels like there's not a lot of there there, y'know? Nothing guiding me to go to the trouble of airbiking over to the next island half a continent away. Maybe I just haven't hit the right part of the NPC conversation chain, but for a game that does as much as it does to get you to go out of your comfort zone, the islands feel less necessary.
posted by Kyol at 10:27 AM on June 7, 2023
posted by Kyol at 10:27 AM on June 7, 2023
I've spent the least amount of time on the Sky Islands by far. Maybe I'll explore one if it's on the way when I'm launching out of a Skyview Tower but otherwise I'm more interested in looking for the geoglyphs, shrines, other Skyview Towers, or other points of interest on land. Every time I see a chasm I'll at least drop in to see if there's a light root or other point of interest nearby. But nothing's really compelling me to properly check out the sky islands yet. Maybe once I start to actively look for more Sage's Wills.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:40 PM on June 7, 2023
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:40 PM on June 7, 2023
The problem with using Zonai devices to explore the whole sky is they have limited range. Many times I've tried to explore a significant distance with a fanplane or something like that, and the pieces always come apart after I've gone some distance. I'm not even sure exactly what causes it. Balloons do it too, but I can get much further if I use a Flame Emitter for a heat source than simple firewood.
I used fans to push one of those big hover platforms out towards one of the sky labyrinths and it broke apart. So I figured I'd glue three of those platforms together and try it. The result was, the first platform broke apart... but then the second did a few seconds after, and then the third, even though they hadn't been showing warning signs before that. What's to stop an airbike from doing the same thing?
Overall though I like the Sky, it's a return to a more traditional type of sequential puzzle-solving overworld, although it's one where you usually have several ways to get somewhere. I even managed to explore a lot of the Thunderhead Islands, the sky islands with the perpetual thunderstorm and very low visibility. I wasn't sure if I was supposed to do it as-is or if a story quest would abate the storm, and so managed to explore a fair bit before finding that quest. (This happens with me and video games sometimes, argh.)
posted by JHarris at 4:24 PM on June 7, 2023
I used fans to push one of those big hover platforms out towards one of the sky labyrinths and it broke apart. So I figured I'd glue three of those platforms together and try it. The result was, the first platform broke apart... but then the second did a few seconds after, and then the third, even though they hadn't been showing warning signs before that. What's to stop an airbike from doing the same thing?
Overall though I like the Sky, it's a return to a more traditional type of sequential puzzle-solving overworld, although it's one where you usually have several ways to get somewhere. I even managed to explore a lot of the Thunderhead Islands, the sky islands with the perpetual thunderstorm and very low visibility. I wasn't sure if I was supposed to do it as-is or if a story quest would abate the storm, and so managed to explore a fair bit before finding that quest. (This happens with me and video games sometimes, argh.)
posted by JHarris at 4:24 PM on June 7, 2023
Hover stones and Zonai wings have an expiration timer if they're used as part of devices (ie if Link stands on them) -- although weirdly wings won't despawn if they're only used as a structural piece in a larger contraption. I think it's because getting around the Sky map would be trivially easy if they didn't.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 4:29 PM on June 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 4:29 PM on June 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
What's to stop an airbike from doing the same thing?
The two types of component that make the airbike - fans and control sticks - don't have timers.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:56 PM on June 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
The two types of component that make the airbike - fans and control sticks - don't have timers.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:56 PM on June 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Last night I made it out to the sky isle of the King Gleeok and since I had just had a BM (blood moon) I fought and killed it. (The last Gleeok I fought, I was like three hits away from killing it when I saw the big red orb in the distance, but managed to stall on delivering the final blow until after it regenerated all the monsters.) After killing it, I thought, whew! I figured I had had enough of that and decided to explore the Depths for awhile, and the very first area I find was Gleeok Den, home to another King Gleeok. Argh.
I've now found 121 shrines, more than even were in the first game. I hear this one has 152, divided between 120 on the surface and 32 in the sky. I finally maxed out my Stamina Wheel.
One thing, that I remarked upon on mefi.social last night, is that the residents of Hyrule are really kind of dim? Story spoilers:
posted by JHarris at 4:57 PM on June 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
I've now found 121 shrines, more than even were in the first game. I hear this one has 152, divided between 120 on the surface and 32 in the sky. I finally maxed out my Stamina Wheel.
One thing, that I remarked upon on mefi.social last night, is that the residents of Hyrule are really kind of dim? Story spoilers:
The story has been dropping hints the whole game that the Zelda that's been seen around was a fake. She's seen hanging out with monsters, she's given Rock Drugs to the Gorons, she leads Link and $currentfriend into danger over and over. By this time I've already seen the memory showing Ganondorf using a fake Zelda in the past to cause trouble. Then I found the last tear, and the game almost out and _tells_ you where Zelda is now, but tht still doesn't stop pseudo-Zelda's appearance in the castle from stalling the plot until you track her down in each location, which are only shown to you by quest map points, which can be accidentally switched to a different quest. Anyway--then everyone is SO SURPRISED when it's revealed it's not really Zelda. GUH. FRUH. MUH. PLUH. RWPKBLUH.
posted by JHarris at 4:57 PM on June 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
if I fall from here it's going to be a half a damn hour of gliding from here to here and making glider apparatuses and just barely catching the edge of a island and
The travel medallion solves this problem, if you've gotten one yet. Lay down a fast travel point before any risky aerial maneuvers.
posted by nobody at 9:19 PM on June 7, 2023
The travel medallion solves this problem, if you've gotten one yet. Lay down a fast travel point before any risky aerial maneuvers.
posted by nobody at 9:19 PM on June 7, 2023
It's great that so many of the first game's DLC features are just _features_ now. It makes me wonder if they're even going to do any DLC for TotK, I mean it was $70 anyway.
posted by JHarris at 12:21 AM on June 8, 2023
posted by JHarris at 12:21 AM on June 8, 2023
Oh yeah, I mean, I've been mostly solving it by saving before I leap off into the great blue sky and "_oop_ almost had it! reload" versus "I was miles out, think of something else".
My travel medallions are mostly tied up in the abandoned quarries and last point of a quest chain, although I think the quarries will be done in another day or two.
posted by Kyol at 5:16 AM on June 8, 2023
My travel medallions are mostly tied up in the abandoned quarries and last point of a quest chain, although I think the quarries will be done in another day or two.
posted by Kyol at 5:16 AM on June 8, 2023
...I spoke too soon, they're free now. I was letting the zonaite shops restock naturally instead of sleeping my cares away.
posted by Kyol at 6:41 PM on June 8, 2023
posted by Kyol at 6:41 PM on June 8, 2023
Found a strategy to cheese Lynel fights and now I feel like I'm getting away with something. In case others want this terrible/amazing knowledge:
posted by yasaman at 8:50 PM on June 8, 2023 [2 favorites]
fuse together two chests. use ultrahand to recreate this with zonaite. put it in front of a Lynel, and it'll spend all its time roaring and trying to break apart your Zonai "device", but the chests won't break, so you will be free to just smack him until he dies. This only works on the Lynels that roar, which is not all of them. I tried with a red Lynel and it didn't work, but it worked on a white-maned Lynel.
posted by yasaman at 8:50 PM on June 8, 2023 [2 favorites]
Ahahahah, yeah, I'd seen that work before, but wasn't sure what they used to get the lynel into that state. That'd do it.
posted by Kyol at 10:33 PM on June 8, 2023
posted by Kyol at 10:33 PM on June 8, 2023
I've only fought one Lynel so far, in many hours of play (for such an iconic enemy of Breath of the Wild I've only seen a couple in this game!), and got it into this weird loop where I was focusing on shooting it in the face with arrows, but it kept running off and back again, like it was trying to approach and attack just right.
posted by JHarris at 5:20 PM on June 9, 2023
posted by JHarris at 5:20 PM on June 9, 2023
I stopped trying to progress in the main story last week and have been exploring and trying to get as many side quests and adventures as possible. Over the weekend I watched my kid as he played and took mental notes of places to visit. I ended up spending a bit more time in the Sky Islands to get the gliding clothes and found a random Sage's Will so I'll probably do some more active exploration of it but I've also unlocked the Great Fairies so I'm going to hunt for Lizalfos and other monsters to upgrade my clothes.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:51 PM on June 12, 2023
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:51 PM on June 12, 2023
Yeah, I go through phases of exploration, puzzle solving, and quest completing. I've finished up the four major Temples over the weekend, now to go find out the mystery of Princess Zelda while completing the Master Sword quest, which kind of makes the first quest _pretty obvious_.
posted by Kyol at 2:26 PM on June 12, 2023
posted by Kyol at 2:26 PM on June 12, 2023
I've finished up the four major Temples over the weekend,
You're short a temple.
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:14 PM on June 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
You're short a temple.
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:14 PM on June 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
Oh, I know, I'm just letting the game get me there. Honestly, I think the (final, maybe?) tears quest should've come after the temple quests, because the story gets a little twisted around otherwise. I mean, I can sort of justify it ...
Like maybe it's just the Zelda as the Sage of Time traveling forward to get Link and the Future Sages lined up and not Evil Zelda Twin like we saw in the memory, and since we know where Zelda _actually is_ in the modern era from the last tears quest...
I've just sort of hit the point where I'm sort of at a loss for how I want to proceed because I'm like the kid in the candy store - too much to do! Too many things to follow up on! I'm torn between wishing that some of the rumors you hear from NPCs were logged somewhere and being glad they aren't! I'm pretty sure this happened to me in BotW too, and I think eventually I just ended up doing the main Gannondorf quest to "finish" the game before going back to just wander around and do shrines and quests.
posted by Kyol at 8:56 AM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Like maybe it's just the Zelda as the Sage of Time traveling forward to get Link and the Future Sages lined up and not Evil Zelda Twin like we saw in the memory, and since we know where Zelda _actually is_ in the modern era from the last tears quest...
I've just sort of hit the point where I'm sort of at a loss for how I want to proceed because I'm like the kid in the candy store - too much to do! Too many things to follow up on! I'm torn between wishing that some of the rumors you hear from NPCs were logged somewhere and being glad they aren't! I'm pretty sure this happened to me in BotW too, and I think eventually I just ended up doing the main Gannondorf quest to "finish" the game before going back to just wander around and do shrines and quests.
posted by Kyol at 8:56 AM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I kind of wish the Tears cutscenes played in order no matter which one you've discovered, because that way there wouldn't be big gaps in the story as you're uncovering it and you wouldn't accidentally get the last ones really early on. I get that the geoglyph for each tear ties into a specific cutscene so you would lose that but I still think forcing chronological order is the way to go and maybe even locking you out of getting the final couple until after you've finished the Temples so that those storylines tie together a bit better. I still haven't done any of the Goron quests so I don't know what happens after Regional Phenomena questline is over although I have my suspicions.
The one big enemy I can reliably kill now are the Flux Constructs.
I was just avoiding them earlier but then I saw a tip here and tried to use Ultrahand against Flux Constructs and I was getting killed pretty easily. Then I watched my kid and he kills them just by attacking and using some Recall and Ascend to get closer to the main block, so I do that now and pull out the Ultrahand if it's in a big cube and there's no easy way to attack it and it is much easier.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:17 PM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
The one big enemy I can reliably kill now are the Flux Constructs.
I was just avoiding them earlier but then I saw a tip here and tried to use Ultrahand against Flux Constructs and I was getting killed pretty easily. Then I watched my kid and he kills them just by attacking and using some Recall and Ascend to get closer to the main block, so I do that now and pull out the Ultrahand if it's in a big cube and there's no easy way to attack it and it is much easier.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:17 PM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Once you get your equipment upgraded a bit the damage you take decreases a lot. Every four points of armor is a heart of damage less you take per attack, down to a minimum of a quarter-heart. High damage enemies appear sooner than in BotW, so doing one of the Great Fairy unlock subquests is a good thing to do early on to make those overworld bosses more managable. That ends up doing a lot more for your longevity than getting heart containers.
On Flux Constructs, even if you can't manage to catch the core with Ultrahand, if you can detatch a few (five or six) of the other blocks it'll stun the core block the same way. If you have the bird kid sage with you, I've found that it'll get arrow shots in on the core sometimes that'll stun it for free.
The trick mentioned above about using Ascent to get to the top of Taluses is pretty good, many of them, once you're up there, you're free to smash away on its weak point. Defeating them is a good source of gems, plus gets you a pretty good smashing-type object to stick to one of your weapons.
posted by JHarris at 7:03 PM on June 13, 2023
On Flux Constructs, even if you can't manage to catch the core with Ultrahand, if you can detatch a few (five or six) of the other blocks it'll stun the core block the same way. If you have the bird kid sage with you, I've found that it'll get arrow shots in on the core sometimes that'll stun it for free.
The trick mentioned above about using Ascent to get to the top of Taluses is pretty good, many of them, once you're up there, you're free to smash away on its weak point. Defeating them is a good source of gems, plus gets you a pretty good smashing-type object to stick to one of your weapons.
posted by JHarris at 7:03 PM on June 13, 2023
« Older "A tool for viewing and querying overlapping... | New demon catshark species discovered off coast of... Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
Hahahaha. I see what they did there.
posted by hippybear at 7:17 PM on May 13, 2023 [4 favorites]