"When I leave for the night, I ain't comin' back"
May 18, 2023 5:02 AM Subscribe
Montana completely bans TikTok. This follows bans on government-, state-, and university-owned devices around the country.
The popular social media app, whose parent is the Chinese company Bytedance, has not found an American buyer.
The popular social media app, whose parent is the Chinese company Bytedance, has not found an American buyer.
The CNN story is a bit misleading when it says "The law also outlines potential fines of $10,000 per day for violators, including app stores found to host the social media application."
In fact, the only "violators" targeted are app stores and TikTok itself. The text of the bill specifically excludes users. So, if i have TikTok on my phone, i can go on using it without penalty. Technically, I'm in violation of the law, but it's toothless.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:41 AM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
In fact, the only "violators" targeted are app stores and TikTok itself. The text of the bill specifically excludes users. So, if i have TikTok on my phone, i can go on using it without penalty. Technically, I'm in violation of the law, but it's toothless.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:41 AM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
From the text of the bill:
posted by martin q blank at 5:53 AM on May 18, 2023 [26 favorites]
WHEREAS, TikTok fails to remove, and may even promote, dangerous content that directs minors to engage in dangerous activities, including but not limited to throwing objects at moving automobiles, taking excessive amounts of medication, lighting a mirror on fire and then attempting to extinguish it using only one's body parts, inducing unconsciousness through oxygen deprivation, cooking chicken in NyQuil, pouring hot wax on a user's face, attempting to break an unsuspecting passerby's skull by tripping him or her into landing face first into a hard surface, placing metal objects in electrical outlets, swerving cars at high rates of speed, smearing human feces on toddlers, licking doorknobs and toilet seats to place oneself at risk of contracting coronavirus, attempting to climb stacks of milkcrates, shooting passersby with air rifles, loosening lug nuts on vehicles, and stealing utilities from public places; andYou just know some legislator's college intern spent hours watching TikTok just to come up with that. Which, speaking as a onetime Congressional intern, actually beats a lot of the crap interns usually have to do.
posted by martin q blank at 5:53 AM on May 18, 2023 [26 favorites]
You just know some legislator's college intern spent hours watching TikTok just to come up with that.
My sister works in a bank. About ten years ago she asked me if I, in my job as an IT guy, knew of a pre-made list of bad language that they could use to filter emails. I said that she could probably whip one up in a few hours, and praised her for not going to Google, for fear of what she would get stuck in her search history.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:00 AM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
My sister works in a bank. About ten years ago she asked me if I, in my job as an IT guy, knew of a pre-made list of bad language that they could use to filter emails. I said that she could probably whip one up in a few hours, and praised her for not going to Google, for fear of what she would get stuck in her search history.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:00 AM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
smearing human feces on toddlers
Isn't that just... having a toddler?
posted by obfuscation at 6:12 AM on May 18, 2023 [17 favorites]
Isn't that just... having a toddler?
posted by obfuscation at 6:12 AM on May 18, 2023 [17 favorites]
"Isn't that just... having a toddler?"
Nah, most toddlers have moved on to working with non-human feces.
posted by oddman at 6:27 AM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Nah, most toddlers have moved on to working with non-human feces.
posted by oddman at 6:27 AM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Toddlers normally do their own smearing. Doing it yourself puts an honest toddler out of a job.
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:31 AM on May 18, 2023 [40 favorites]
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:31 AM on May 18, 2023 [40 favorites]
How is it possibly constitutionally OK for a state to ban sale of a piece of software?
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:43 AM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:43 AM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
You just know some legislator's college intern spent hours watching TikTok just to come up with that.
And that the TikTok algorithm showed them more clips similar to the ones they engaged with.
posted by box at 6:45 AM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
And that the TikTok algorithm showed them more clips similar to the ones they engaged with.
posted by box at 6:45 AM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
TikToddlers
MonTok
TikTana
SenaTok
Just spitballing names for niche substitutes
posted by chavenet at 7:39 AM on May 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
MonTok
TikTana
SenaTok
Just spitballing names for niche substitutes
posted by chavenet at 7:39 AM on May 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Nice job on the title.
posted by Slinga at 7:58 AM on May 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Slinga at 7:58 AM on May 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
How is it possibly constitutionally OK for a state to ban sale of a piece of software?
I'm sure that our current SCOTUS will go through all kinds of mental gymnastics to explain why it is.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:13 AM on May 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
I'm sure that our current SCOTUS will go through all kinds of mental gymnastics to explain why it is.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:13 AM on May 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
I’m getting a strong old-man-shakes-cane-at-sky vibe here.
posted by gottabefunky at 8:21 AM on May 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by gottabefunky at 8:21 AM on May 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
nothing tiktok does isn’t done by every other social media company.
How doe tiktok cultivate such enthralling clips? No really, I'm fairly light on the social media but look at most systems. But when I finally installed the tik it fed me intense skiing shots, insane domino sets, and woodworking vids that took a lot of work to produce. And the pretty girls posing some come on, scams I assume. Even some of those were tight and well produced. The chinese factories building some odd thing in a complicated way, are also just intriguing. Really now, are there tik training schools?
posted by sammyo at 8:27 AM on May 18, 2023
How doe tiktok cultivate such enthralling clips? No really, I'm fairly light on the social media but look at most systems. But when I finally installed the tik it fed me intense skiing shots, insane domino sets, and woodworking vids that took a lot of work to produce. And the pretty girls posing some come on, scams I assume. Even some of those were tight and well produced. The chinese factories building some odd thing in a complicated way, are also just intriguing. Really now, are there tik training schools?
posted by sammyo at 8:27 AM on May 18, 2023
Montana has the population of a good-sized housing complex in Queens, but, yeah, you stand up to those got-dang ChiComs, gov! That is totally meaningful and not in any way a meaningless political gesture.
See also: GOP-driven bills to prevent godless Commies from buying real estate in Texas and Florida.
Now, me, I'd say closing the spigot through our export control protocols so that third-country intermediaries can't funnel U.S. tech to China, Russia, et al., is probably a more-impactful way of ensuring our national security, but does that make for paranoia-inducing speechifying? It does not. I mean, right now, Xi Jinping probably knows which videos you've bookmarked on Pornhub!
posted by the sobsister at 8:28 AM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
See also: GOP-driven bills to prevent godless Commies from buying real estate in Texas and Florida.
Now, me, I'd say closing the spigot through our export control protocols so that third-country intermediaries can't funnel U.S. tech to China, Russia, et al., is probably a more-impactful way of ensuring our national security, but does that make for paranoia-inducing speechifying? It does not. I mean, right now, Xi Jinping probably knows which videos you've bookmarked on Pornhub!
posted by the sobsister at 8:28 AM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
I just want to mention that Washington Post story from last year about how Facebook was orchestrating "a nationwide media and lobbying campaign portraying [TikTok] ... as a danger to American children and society."
posted by Gerald Bostock at 8:30 AM on May 18, 2023 [18 favorites]
posted by Gerald Bostock at 8:30 AM on May 18, 2023 [18 favorites]
The. Stupidest. Timeline.
posted by slogger at 8:35 AM on May 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by slogger at 8:35 AM on May 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
How is it possibly constitutionally OK for a state to ban sale of a piece of software?
Look, software is a kind of digital machine, right? And if you've got a machine of some sort, and—like, it's specifically designed to facilitate harm, like, the impact of what that machine does is harmful to other people—if what it does is harmful, you have a responsibility as a government and as people to curtail or outright ban the use and availability of that machine. A functioning society requires compromises between a principle of unchecked personal freedom and the duty to support the common welfare.
"okay but what about guns—" not like that
posted by cortex at 8:44 AM on May 18, 2023 [47 favorites]
Look, software is a kind of digital machine, right? And if you've got a machine of some sort, and—like, it's specifically designed to facilitate harm, like, the impact of what that machine does is harmful to other people—if what it does is harmful, you have a responsibility as a government and as people to curtail or outright ban the use and availability of that machine. A functioning society requires compromises between a principle of unchecked personal freedom and the duty to support the common welfare.
"okay but what about guns—" not like that
posted by cortex at 8:44 AM on May 18, 2023 [47 favorites]
it strikes me as ironic that the way to circumvent this ban would be the same way that you circumvent China's censorship - easily, with a VPN
posted by paimapi at 8:47 AM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by paimapi at 8:47 AM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Every week (like clockwork!) a TikTok recruiter reaches out to me about whether I got their last email and if I want to work for their company. I guess their own employee base is even more afraid of legislature induced layoffs and declining equity valuations.
posted by pwnguin at 8:49 AM on May 18, 2023
posted by pwnguin at 8:49 AM on May 18, 2023
Good.
It's insidious, ban that shit. Not just because it's too addictive; I'd cite it for aesthetic crimes for its stupid, limited palette of sound effects.
posted by Rash at 9:19 AM on May 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's insidious, ban that shit. Not just because it's too addictive; I'd cite it for aesthetic crimes for its stupid, limited palette of sound effects.
posted by Rash at 9:19 AM on May 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Love the post title. I deleted TikTok from my phone as I didn't need yet enough waste of time (looking at you as Instagram - you only surviving for now because I installed you first).
I do feel there is something a little different about social media apps that have just become so targeted at users (not just TikTok). I'd prefer someone takes an actual crack at reasonable regulatory safeguards rather then a ban. But that's hard to do when you also have national security concerns (legitimate or otherwise for the US entity they created - I really have no idea) on the table.
it strikes me as ironic that the way to circumvent this ban would be the same way that you circumvent China's censorship - easily, with a VPN
I was reading the bill (which is obviously not IT technical) but was curious if TikTok now needs to geofence the app (i.e. you could be on a VPN to get an out of state geolocated IP, but if your phone's GPS geolocation reports as in Montana could TikTok be fined if they don't actively block you?). Obviously you can turn off location services for the app as well as use a VPN. I'm imaging some state employee tasked with turning on TikTok on a state sanctioned phone (allowed in section (1).4) every day and seeing if its geofenced yet and, if not, sending a fine for $10k each day
Also from the bill :
Section 5. Effective date. [This act] is effective January 1, 2024
and
Section 4. Contingent voidness. [This act] is void if tiktok is acquired by or sold to a company that is not incorporated in any other country designated as a foreign adversary in 15 C.F.R. 7.4 at the time tiktok is sold or acquired.
So I guess this is messaging bill about a future ban, with some NyQuil Chicken shade thrown in (mentioned in the recitals at the top).
posted by inflatablekiwi at 9:51 AM on May 18, 2023
I do feel there is something a little different about social media apps that have just become so targeted at users (not just TikTok). I'd prefer someone takes an actual crack at reasonable regulatory safeguards rather then a ban. But that's hard to do when you also have national security concerns (legitimate or otherwise for the US entity they created - I really have no idea) on the table.
it strikes me as ironic that the way to circumvent this ban would be the same way that you circumvent China's censorship - easily, with a VPN
I was reading the bill (which is obviously not IT technical) but was curious if TikTok now needs to geofence the app (i.e. you could be on a VPN to get an out of state geolocated IP, but if your phone's GPS geolocation reports as in Montana could TikTok be fined if they don't actively block you?). Obviously you can turn off location services for the app as well as use a VPN. I'm imaging some state employee tasked with turning on TikTok on a state sanctioned phone (allowed in section (1).4) every day and seeing if its geofenced yet and, if not, sending a fine for $10k each day
Also from the bill :
Section 5. Effective date. [This act] is effective January 1, 2024
and
Section 4. Contingent voidness. [This act] is void if tiktok is acquired by or sold to a company that is not incorporated in any other country designated as a foreign adversary in 15 C.F.R. 7.4 at the time tiktok is sold or acquired.
So I guess this is messaging bill about a future ban, with some NyQuil Chicken shade thrown in (mentioned in the recitals at the top).
posted by inflatablekiwi at 9:51 AM on May 18, 2023
The thing I'm puzzled by is this:
The bill, which will take effect in January, specifically names TikTok as its target, prohibiting the app from operating within state lines.
High school civics was a long time ago, but I'm pretty sure it's unconstitutional to enact a law like "Nebulawindphone, specifically, should be punished." Does that sort of specificity become constitutional again if it's a company and not a person?
posted by nebulawindphone at 9:59 AM on May 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
The bill, which will take effect in January, specifically names TikTok as its target, prohibiting the app from operating within state lines.
High school civics was a long time ago, but I'm pretty sure it's unconstitutional to enact a law like "Nebulawindphone, specifically, should be punished." Does that sort of specificity become constitutional again if it's a company and not a person?
posted by nebulawindphone at 9:59 AM on May 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Over a quarter of Montana is federal land, and a smaller but not insignificant percentage is Tribal reservation. I await the creation of the Glacier National Park TikTok download freedom zone outside of state control impacting the one bar of coverage I normally get there....
posted by inflatablekiwi at 10:04 AM on May 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by inflatablekiwi at 10:04 AM on May 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
We could pass actual, meaningful consumer data privacy laws but that'd hurt the donor class, so instead we'll remove their competition.
posted by msbutah at 10:16 AM on May 18, 2023 [17 favorites]
posted by msbutah at 10:16 AM on May 18, 2023 [17 favorites]
Does that sort of specificity become constitutional again if it's a company and not a person?
Thanks to Citizens United, there's no difference!
posted by grumpybear69 at 10:38 AM on May 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
Thanks to Citizens United, there's no difference!
posted by grumpybear69 at 10:38 AM on May 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
Now, me, I'd say closing the spigot through our export control protocols so that third-country intermediaries can't funnel U.S. tech to China, Russia, et al., is probably a more-impactful way of ensuring our national security..
And potentially hurt Apple, Microsoft, Intel, or Lockheed etc. sales by .001%? Why do you hate America?
posted by COD at 10:47 AM on May 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
And potentially hurt Apple, Microsoft, Intel, or Lockheed etc. sales by .001%? Why do you hate America?
posted by COD at 10:47 AM on May 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
WHEREAS, TikTok fails to remove, and may even promote, dangerous content that directs minors to engage in dangerous activities, including but not limited to throwing objects at moving automobiles, taking excessive amounts of medication, lighting a mirror on fire and then attempting to extinguish it using only one's body parts, inducing unconsciousness through oxygen deprivation, cooking chicken in NyQuil, pouring hot wax on a user's face, attempting to break an unsuspecting passerby's skull by tripping him or her into landing face first into a hard surface, placing metal objects in electrical outlets, swerving cars at high rates of speed, smearing human feces on toddlers, licking doorknobs and toilet seats to place oneself at risk of contracting coronavirus, attempting to climb stacks of milkcrates, shooting passersby with air rifles, loosening lug nuts on vehicles, and stealing utilities from public places; and
This list had me cry-laughing. Yes, kids. Do them all!
posted by amanda at 11:39 AM on May 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
This list had me cry-laughing. Yes, kids. Do them all!
posted by amanda at 11:39 AM on May 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
licking doorknobs and toilet seats to place oneself at risk of contracting coronavirus
Oh sure, when Tiktok says to go catch coronavirus suddenly it's a problem.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:41 AM on May 18, 2023 [19 favorites]
Oh sure, when Tiktok says to go catch coronavirus suddenly it's a problem.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:41 AM on May 18, 2023 [19 favorites]
cooking chicken in NyQuil
They have done all of those.
A Man Cooked Chicken In Nighttime Flu Medicine. This Is What Happened To His Liver.
You're never going to stop kids from doing stupid shit but it does seem like Tik Tok really lends itself to creating huge trends of stupid shit that reach a TON more people than it would have otherwise.
That channel includes a lot of weird and stupid stuff people have done and paid a price for but it seems like a LOT of them were inspired by some trending tik tok challenge or another.
posted by VTX at 12:02 PM on May 18, 2023
They have done all of those.
A Man Cooked Chicken In Nighttime Flu Medicine. This Is What Happened To His Liver.
You're never going to stop kids from doing stupid shit but it does seem like Tik Tok really lends itself to creating huge trends of stupid shit that reach a TON more people than it would have otherwise.
That channel includes a lot of weird and stupid stuff people have done and paid a price for but it seems like a LOT of them were inspired by some trending tik tok challenge or another.
posted by VTX at 12:02 PM on May 18, 2023
Someone in my family listens to Joe Rogan. Yeah, I know. Anyway, Rogan says the TikTok Terms of Use are unusually bad. I did some googling and ran out of interest before finding anything conclusive. Phone apps seems particularly invasive. Is TikTok even worse than FB, Insta, Twitter, etc?
I'm not a theoretically-amusing-video watcher, so it's just curiosity.
posted by theora55 at 12:13 PM on May 18, 2023
I'm not a theoretically-amusing-video watcher, so it's just curiosity.
posted by theora55 at 12:13 PM on May 18, 2023
I'm gonna find me a horse just about this big
An' ride him all along the border line
With a pair of heavy-duty
Zircon-encrusted tweezers in my hand
posted by flabdablet at 12:38 PM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
An' ride him all along the border line
With a pair of heavy-duty
Zircon-encrusted tweezers in my hand
posted by flabdablet at 12:38 PM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
High school civics was a long time ago, but I'm pretty sure it's unconstitutional to enact a law like "Nebulawindphone, specifically, should be punished." Does that sort of specificity become constitutional again if it's a company and not a person?
"Bills of Attainder", See Also: Laws that apply only to Disneyworld.
posted by mikelieman at 3:06 PM on May 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
"Bills of Attainder", See Also: Laws that apply only to Disneyworld.
posted by mikelieman at 3:06 PM on May 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
nothing tiktok does isn’t done by every other social media company.
Well, except for handing over any and all user data to the Chinese government whenever they want it. It's subtly different than the strip-mining of personal data in the name of capitalism practiced by all the Western social media companies (and also by TikTok).
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 4:25 PM on May 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
Well, except for handing over any and all user data to the Chinese government whenever they want it. It's subtly different than the strip-mining of personal data in the name of capitalism practiced by all the Western social media companies (and also by TikTok).
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 4:25 PM on May 18, 2023 [4 favorites]
Well, except for handing over any and all user data to the Chinese government whenever they want it. It's subtly different than the strip-mining of personal data in the name of capitalism practiced by all the Western social media companies (and also by TikTok).
I beleive the US government is also able to request user data from companies, which is why Google Analytics is now illegal in Austrian, French, Italian, Danish, Finnish, Norwegian and other European Data Protection Authorities.
posted by Sparx at 4:32 PM on May 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
I beleive the US government is also able to request user data from companies, which is why Google Analytics is now illegal in Austrian, French, Italian, Danish, Finnish, Norwegian and other European Data Protection Authorities.
posted by Sparx at 4:32 PM on May 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
I beleive the US government is also able to request user data from companies, which is why Google Analytics is now illegal in Austrian, French, Italian, Danish, Finnish, Norwegian and other European Data Protection Authorities.
It's so strange, the lengths people will go to minimize creeping foreign authoritarianism. Nobody here is defending the American surveillance state - which, while also not good, is also not the subject of this post.
To me, this is axiomatic: authoritarianism is bad, wherever it comes from. American, Chinese, Russian, Turkish, Brazilian, Indian, Hungarian (how long this list is getting!), wherever.
The CCP has a particularly malignant strain of it at this moment in history, that strongly desires to extend authoritarian reach beyond China's borders, in a way that is unique and troubling. TikTok is part of that. Actually, any large Chinese company is part of it, whether they like it or not, because refusal is met with imprisonment, disappearance, and reeducation. There is no legal recourse for these companies inside China.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 10:13 PM on May 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
It's so strange, the lengths people will go to minimize creeping foreign authoritarianism. Nobody here is defending the American surveillance state - which, while also not good, is also not the subject of this post.
To me, this is axiomatic: authoritarianism is bad, wherever it comes from. American, Chinese, Russian, Turkish, Brazilian, Indian, Hungarian (how long this list is getting!), wherever.
The CCP has a particularly malignant strain of it at this moment in history, that strongly desires to extend authoritarian reach beyond China's borders, in a way that is unique and troubling. TikTok is part of that. Actually, any large Chinese company is part of it, whether they like it or not, because refusal is met with imprisonment, disappearance, and reeducation. There is no legal recourse for these companies inside China.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 10:13 PM on May 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
It's so strange, the lengths people will go to minimize creeping foreign authoritarianism.
No real surprise to me to find Montana concluding that the best cure for foreign authoritarianism is local authoritarianism.
posted by flabdablet at 12:51 AM on May 19, 2023 [7 favorites]
No real surprise to me to find Montana concluding that the best cure for foreign authoritarianism is local authoritarianism.
posted by flabdablet at 12:51 AM on May 19, 2023 [7 favorites]
The data being gathered by US tech companies is for sale, and is there any guarantee that they can't/won't sell it to China?
Sincere question, I was just wondering. Highest bidder etc.
posted by Pyrogenesis at 1:21 AM on May 19, 2023
Sincere question, I was just wondering. Highest bidder etc.
posted by Pyrogenesis at 1:21 AM on May 19, 2023
This has less to do with American conservatives caring about your personal data security, and more to do with the fact that younger generations use TikTok for communication and activism that is critical of American conservatives.
Tiktok isn't controlled by a rich American businessman they can sway.
posted by Fleebnork at 5:20 AM on May 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
Tiktok isn't controlled by a rich American businessman they can sway.
posted by Fleebnork at 5:20 AM on May 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
No real surprise to me to find Montana concluding that the best cure for foreign authoritarianism is local authoritarianism.
It's only authoritarianism when conducted outside of America. When it's our government, it's patriotism.
posted by COD at 7:14 AM on May 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
It's only authoritarianism when conducted outside of America. When it's our government, it's patriotism.
posted by COD at 7:14 AM on May 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
How does this get enforced? Will TikTok be forced to act like a gambling site and check your location?
posted by punchee at 8:18 AM on May 19, 2023
posted by punchee at 8:18 AM on May 19, 2023
gottabefunky: I’m getting a strong old-man-shakes-cane-at-sky vibe here.
old-man-shakes-cane-at-Big-Sky was right there.
posted by tzikeh at 3:43 PM on May 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
old-man-shakes-cane-at-Big-Sky was right there.
posted by tzikeh at 3:43 PM on May 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
How does this get enforced? Will TikTok be forced to act like a gambling site and check your location?
Probably. Or maybe the App Store will identify you as a Montanan and refuse to let you have it installed. On the heels of the Utah porn ban, one thing is clear: it's time to buy stock in VPN providers.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 4:34 PM on May 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Probably. Or maybe the App Store will identify you as a Montanan and refuse to let you have it installed. On the heels of the Utah porn ban, one thing is clear: it's time to buy stock in VPN providers.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 4:34 PM on May 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's so strange, the lengths people will go to minimize creeping foreign authoritarianism. Nobody here is defending the American surveillance state - which, while also not good, is also not the subject of this post.
US and China are both foreign from my perspective and equivalant in this particular policy...which you specifically brought up. By highlighting the fact that the US shares this policy with China, and doesn't share it with much of the western world, I am, by definition, shining a light on creeping foreign authoritarianism. Cue 'The authoritarianism is coming from inside the house...of representatives' joke.
posted by Sparx at 8:46 PM on May 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
US and China are both foreign from my perspective and equivalant in this particular policy...which you specifically brought up. By highlighting the fact that the US shares this policy with China, and doesn't share it with much of the western world, I am, by definition, shining a light on creeping foreign authoritarianism. Cue 'The authoritarianism is coming from inside the house...of representatives' joke.
posted by Sparx at 8:46 PM on May 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
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