“It's in our blood.”
May 19, 2023 7:22 AM Subscribe
Mortal Kombat 1 [Official Announcement Trailer][YouTube] [Content Warning: extreme gore, violence, blood, etc.] “The next Mortal Kombat game — titled Mortal Kombat 1, an entry that will bring the series into the past — is (officially) coming this year. Warner Bros. Games and longtime series developer NetherRealm Studios announced the next Mortal Kombat game on Thursday with a reveal trailer, confirming that the fighting game will be released on Sept. 19 on Nintendo Switch, PlayStation 5, Windows PC, and Xbox Series X. The first trailer for Mortal Kombat 1 confirms the return of some familiar faces: Shang Tsung, Liu Kang, Raiden, Scorpion, Kitana, Mileena, and Sub-Zero. But they look quite different from the kombatants that players may know for the past 30 years, as Mortal Kombat 1 is set deep in MK’s history.” [via: Polygon]
Hey, Fizz - I am not deeply into the space, so this question is admittedly being asked in ignorance, but you have any insight into why, say, Street Fighter and Smash Brothers took off as esports combatives but other once-big games in that space (MK, Tekken, Killer Instinct I guess) never seemed to take off the same way?
posted by mhoye at 7:39 AM on May 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by mhoye at 7:39 AM on May 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Servo5678, I feel like I went through that same cycle just within the two and a half minutes of the trailer itself.
posted by solotoro at 7:40 AM on May 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by solotoro at 7:40 AM on May 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
Wait, hold up, I just watched the video and it keeps saying, you have a choice, peace and prosperity or I guess punching and more punching, you have a choice you have a choice.
Is there going to be a secret ending here where we can just... chose the peace and prosperity part? Do we get, like, a farm sim or a dating game? How did Sub Zero and Scorpion reconcile and help their family find peace, can we have that story, or maybe the one about how Kitana introduces Shang Tsung to Mileena and they discovered their shared love of small gardens, before she helps Liu Kang find his real calling as a poet whose work helps Johnny Cage come to terms with his past and open a small bookstore?
We can have that, right? The real Mortal Kombat turns out to be the fight against greed, selfishness, and our worst inner natures, but it can be defeated by the power of honesty, kindness and helping?
posted by mhoye at 7:50 AM on May 19, 2023 [29 favorites]
Is there going to be a secret ending here where we can just... chose the peace and prosperity part? Do we get, like, a farm sim or a dating game? How did Sub Zero and Scorpion reconcile and help their family find peace, can we have that story, or maybe the one about how Kitana introduces Shang Tsung to Mileena and they discovered their shared love of small gardens, before she helps Liu Kang find his real calling as a poet whose work helps Johnny Cage come to terms with his past and open a small bookstore?
We can have that, right? The real Mortal Kombat turns out to be the fight against greed, selfishness, and our worst inner natures, but it can be defeated by the power of honesty, kindness and helping?
posted by mhoye at 7:50 AM on May 19, 2023 [29 favorites]
but you have any insight into why, say, Street Fighter and Smash Brothers took off as esports combatives but other once-big games in that space (MK, Tekken, Killer Instinct I guess) never seemed to take off the same way?
I'm not a huge eSports or fighting game expert but my sense is that much of this has to do with the lack of consistency with Mortal Kombat gameplay from game to game. A lot of the other larger eSports fighting games are consistent at least with their fighting mechanics, combos, netcode, hitboxes, etc. I'm sure someone else can come in and share a bit more about this, but I also think that Street Fighter, Tekken, Super Smash, Guilty Gear, these are fighting games that feel a bit faster, more technical, and each new iteration of these games has some throughline that keeps the competitive scene interested. They're also brighter and a bit more "fun" in competitive play. MK seems to kind of flail at that. Again, just my own sense, someone else can probably provide more context and their own experience in that scene.
posted by Fizz at 7:56 AM on May 19, 2023 [6 favorites]
I'm not a huge eSports or fighting game expert but my sense is that much of this has to do with the lack of consistency with Mortal Kombat gameplay from game to game. A lot of the other larger eSports fighting games are consistent at least with their fighting mechanics, combos, netcode, hitboxes, etc. I'm sure someone else can come in and share a bit more about this, but I also think that Street Fighter, Tekken, Super Smash, Guilty Gear, these are fighting games that feel a bit faster, more technical, and each new iteration of these games has some throughline that keeps the competitive scene interested. They're also brighter and a bit more "fun" in competitive play. MK seems to kind of flail at that. Again, just my own sense, someone else can probably provide more context and their own experience in that scene.
posted by Fizz at 7:56 AM on May 19, 2023 [6 favorites]
This feels like they looked at the GoT scene where The Mountain kills Oberyn and said "let's make a whole game out of this!"
Hard pass.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:00 AM on May 19, 2023
Hard pass.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:00 AM on May 19, 2023
Is there going to be a secret ending here where we can just... chose the peace and prosperity part?
Friendship finishers confirmed?
posted by slimepuppy at 8:02 AM on May 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
Friendship finishers confirmed?
posted by slimepuppy at 8:02 AM on May 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
The real Mortal Kombat turns out to be the fight against greed, selfishness, and our worst inner natures, but it can be defeated by the power of honesty, kindness and helping?
look dude the real Mortal Kombat involves ripping out people's spines and using them to stab other, different people, I dunno what to tell ya about that
I get that you might wanna complain to management about this philosophy but you know what happens if you do? yeah, they rip out your spine
but there's an upside, lemme tell you about the wonderful world of spine reclamation/recycling, it's a serious business opportunity
posted by mightygodking at 8:08 AM on May 19, 2023 [6 favorites]
look dude the real Mortal Kombat involves ripping out people's spines and using them to stab other, different people, I dunno what to tell ya about that
I get that you might wanna complain to management about this philosophy but you know what happens if you do? yeah, they rip out your spine
but there's an upside, lemme tell you about the wonderful world of spine reclamation/recycling, it's a serious business opportunity
posted by mightygodking at 8:08 AM on May 19, 2023 [6 favorites]
My heart sinks a little every time I see a new MK release.
I worked in the same building as Ed for a few years and knew him casually. I was upstairs working on stupid clacky pinball machines that didn't sell for squat and Ed and his team were holed up downstairs cranking away on the next MK because it was selling like hotcakes. Management was thriving on the attention and swooned every time Joe Liberman showed up in the headlines (but never sent their own spokespeople like Nintendo or Sega because that would have been insanely stupid).
Anyway that was 30 years ago and they're still going. Ed's an excellent developer and a hilarious guy and I know he's tried once or twice to break out of the mold and do something different, like The Grid (great game, wrong time). So it's a Faustian bargain where they'll hand you lots of money and control but give us more of that blood and gore, please. And don't stop.
posted by mookoz at 8:09 AM on May 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
I worked in the same building as Ed for a few years and knew him casually. I was upstairs working on stupid clacky pinball machines that didn't sell for squat and Ed and his team were holed up downstairs cranking away on the next MK because it was selling like hotcakes. Management was thriving on the attention and swooned every time Joe Liberman showed up in the headlines (but never sent their own spokespeople like Nintendo or Sega because that would have been insanely stupid).
Anyway that was 30 years ago and they're still going. Ed's an excellent developer and a hilarious guy and I know he's tried once or twice to break out of the mold and do something different, like The Grid (great game, wrong time). So it's a Faustian bargain where they'll hand you lots of money and control but give us more of that blood and gore, please. And don't stop.
posted by mookoz at 8:09 AM on May 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
I feel like I am going to be judging people for liking this, and not in a kindly fashion.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:10 AM on May 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:10 AM on May 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
any insight into why, say, Street Fighter and Smash Brothers took off as esports combatives but other once-big games in that space (MK, Tekken, Killer Instinct I guess) never seemed to take off the same way?
The old school MKs were never really considered the most mechanically sound or balanced fighting games. I don’t know about the new ones but my impression is that historically serious fighting games people just never thought they were that good. I feel like Tekken was more “respectable” but it has never had the wider mindshare of SF or Smash.
posted by atoxyl at 8:10 AM on May 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
The old school MKs were never really considered the most mechanically sound or balanced fighting games. I don’t know about the new ones but my impression is that historically serious fighting games people just never thought they were that good. I feel like Tekken was more “respectable” but it has never had the wider mindshare of SF or Smash.
posted by atoxyl at 8:10 AM on May 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
I recall when this game first came out and all the ESRB pearl-clutching and it's a whole ass thing you can google for anyone who isn't aware of that bit of gaming history.
The MK series has always felt a bit try-hard and yet there's something about it that I still find compelling. The more current games in the series from 9, 10, & 11 onwards has leaned into the ridiculousness of the story and the world it tries to tell (they rarely succeed at this) but I love that they also kind of just hand-wave shit and its about corny villains and heroes in ridiculous outfits fighting to save the planet. It's so very stupid and so very violent.
I LOVE IT COMPLETELY.
GET OVER HERE!!
posted by Fizz at 8:11 AM on May 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
The MK series has always felt a bit try-hard and yet there's something about it that I still find compelling. The more current games in the series from 9, 10, & 11 onwards has leaned into the ridiculousness of the story and the world it tries to tell (they rarely succeed at this) but I love that they also kind of just hand-wave shit and its about corny villains and heroes in ridiculous outfits fighting to save the planet. It's so very stupid and so very violent.
I LOVE IT COMPLETELY.
GET OVER HERE!!
posted by Fizz at 8:11 AM on May 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
It's basically "Slaughterhouse Simulator 2023" except that all the meat goes to waste. I mean at least in Euro Truck you're making the economy go, Farm Simulator you're growing things, and Power Wash you're cleaning up. Maybe we need a post-credits mini-game in MK 1 with a power wash gun.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:12 AM on May 19, 2023
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:12 AM on May 19, 2023
I kept waiting for the movie theme song to kick in, I was disappointed.
I'm not sure why they're harping the lore and return to something blah blah blah... nobody is picking this up for that. It's a fighting game, it lives or dies on mechanics and, with an additional side how gory it is with the finishes since it's an MK game.
A cinematic trailer for a fighting game... it's not the first one, but it still feels so unnecessary.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:14 AM on May 19, 2023
I'm not sure why they're harping the lore and return to something blah blah blah... nobody is picking this up for that. It's a fighting game, it lives or dies on mechanics and, with an additional side how gory it is with the finishes since it's an MK game.
A cinematic trailer for a fighting game... it's not the first one, but it still feels so unnecessary.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:14 AM on May 19, 2023
And now I am reminded of the scene in David Lynch's Dune on Geidi Prime where Feyd walks in on a torture chamber with offal on the floor and a minion is operating a power wash gun and Baron Harkonnen shouts "WE GUTTED HIM!" and Beast Rabban smirks.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:15 AM on May 19, 2023
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:15 AM on May 19, 2023
It would be awesome if they added new characters based on all that unused early 90s sprite footage that Cathode Ray Dude uncovered.
Slam Beefchest, 90s Hot Chick, and Ea-nāṣir deserve to be playable characters.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 8:15 AM on May 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
Slam Beefchest, 90s Hot Chick, and Ea-nāṣir deserve to be playable characters.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 8:15 AM on May 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
The most recent Mortal Kombat (2021) film is a ton of fun and worth watching. It's not perfect and its very much a "turn off your brain and just be in this world" type of film, and we're getting a sequel and I'm here for it.
posted by Fizz at 8:16 AM on May 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 8:16 AM on May 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Fizz have you watched the Korean drama "My Name" on Netflix? I think you'd like it.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:18 AM on May 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:18 AM on May 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's a shame MK seems as trapped by nostalgia for itself as a lot of other big dumb 90s franchises. This is the second time the lore has been rebooted and each time they seem to need to go back to the look and feel of the movie (which, granted, was the best Mk ever looked).
That said, mortal Kombat (and NRS games in general) do have an organized competitive scene with big talent and big money but because of the janky NRS look and locked in the 90s aesthetic and mentality I think it has a hard time bringing in new people.
It's also not a very global game in its community, unlike Tekken, KOF, Street Fighter, so it needs to survive in an already oversaturated NA scene, relegating it to a lot of people's second or third choice.
posted by Reyturner at 8:19 AM on May 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
That said, mortal Kombat (and NRS games in general) do have an organized competitive scene with big talent and big money but because of the janky NRS look and locked in the 90s aesthetic and mentality I think it has a hard time bringing in new people.
It's also not a very global game in its community, unlike Tekken, KOF, Street Fighter, so it needs to survive in an already oversaturated NA scene, relegating it to a lot of people's second or third choice.
posted by Reyturner at 8:19 AM on May 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
I also have a soft spot for these, though. I’m of the right age to have played a Genesis port at some older kid’s house and been like holy shit that was awesome and I can definitely not tell my parents about it.
posted by atoxyl at 8:21 AM on May 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by atoxyl at 8:21 AM on May 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
seanmpuckett: "It's basically "Slaughterhouse Simulator 2023" except that all the meat goes to waste. I mean at least in Euro Truck you're making the economy go, Farm Simulator you're growing things, and Power Wash you're cleaning up. Maybe we need a post-credits mini-game in MK 1 with a power wash gun."
I think that's basically Viscera Cleanup Detail?
posted by 40 Watt at 8:46 AM on May 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
I think that's basically Viscera Cleanup Detail?
posted by 40 Watt at 8:46 AM on May 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
I also think that Street Fighter, Tekken, Super Smash, Guilty Gear, these are fighting games that feel a bit faster, more technical, and each new iteration of these games has some throughline that keeps the competitive scene interested.
Speaking as a total casual when it comes to fighting games (and I will admit I have not really played most of the newer titles), I've always found MK's control scheme and special moves to be crazily unintuitive compared to your standard Capcom-style fighter.
Street Fighter 2's special moves tended towards flowing, circular motions that were easy to pull off on an arcade joystick and felt intuitive based on how the character moved on-screen; Whereas all of MK's moves (especially the fatalities) were these pseudo-random staccato movements that felt more like entering a cheat code (up up down down left right left right B A Start) than pulling off a cool martial-arts move.
You could get good at SF2 by watching other players and learning their moves. By contrast, MK always felt like a game where you had to memorize a set moves list before being able to really do anything cool.
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:46 AM on May 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
Speaking as a total casual when it comes to fighting games (and I will admit I have not really played most of the newer titles), I've always found MK's control scheme and special moves to be crazily unintuitive compared to your standard Capcom-style fighter.
Street Fighter 2's special moves tended towards flowing, circular motions that were easy to pull off on an arcade joystick and felt intuitive based on how the character moved on-screen; Whereas all of MK's moves (especially the fatalities) were these pseudo-random staccato movements that felt more like entering a cheat code (up up down down left right left right B A Start) than pulling off a cool martial-arts move.
You could get good at SF2 by watching other players and learning their moves. By contrast, MK always felt like a game where you had to memorize a set moves list before being able to really do anything cool.
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:46 AM on May 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
We can have that, right? The real Mortal Kombat turns out to be the fight against greed, selfishness, and our worst inner natures, but it can be defeated by the power of honesty, kindness and helping?
That’s the spin-off series *Moral Combat*, where they all help each other deal with the damage caused by the Patriarchy and the final boss is Capitalism.
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:51 AM on May 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
That’s the spin-off series *Moral Combat*, where they all help each other deal with the damage caused by the Patriarchy and the final boss is Capitalism.
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:51 AM on May 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
any insight into why, say, Street Fighter and Smash Brothers took off as esports combatives but other once-big games in that space (MK, Tekken, Killer Instinct I guess) never seemed to take off the same way?
Speaking as someone who dumped a lot of quarters into these games when the competitive scene was just starting up, the quick and dirty answer is that fighting games that tend to become esports are the ones where 1.) the character base is varied 2.) the design team pays attention to intercharacter balance and 3. then tries to address any glaring power incongruities.
Street Fighter II and its sequels became an esport because Street Fighter II is, all things considered, extremely well balanced as fighting games of the period go: Ken and Guile are somewhat more powerful than the other members of the "core eight" but as the sequels came out the designers found ways to address those issues (giving Chun Li a projectile, giving Zangief a projectile-avoid attack, toning down damage levels on some of the more powerful characters' moves) so by the time Super Street Fighter II Turbo, the final iteration of the SF2 era of the franchise, came out the character balance wasn't perfect and some characters needed more player skill than others to be competitive, but at the same time every character had good matchups and bad matchups, and this was in a game where every character mostly played very differently than one another: playing Cammy is not like playing Vega is not like playing Ryu.
This design philosophy has generally informed a lot of fighting game design, especially in Japan, which is at least part of the reason most of the fighting games which become esports have primarily Japanese design teams. In the arcade esports scene in the 90s and 2000s, the big fighting games other than the Street Fighter franchise were SNK's Samurai Showdown and King of Fighters and Sega's Virtua Fighter, all of which offered the same attention to intercharacter balance and variety and all of which offered a different novelty to differentiate themselves from SF (Samurai Showdown was about striking range of various swords, KOF about team combinations, and Virtua Fighter about timing and opportunism without any magic powers). When Nintendo debuted Smash, they very explicitly wanted Smash to be a simplified version of Street Fighter where environmental awareness was highly important, and they mostly succeeded.
Mortal Kombat, at the time, didn't really offer any of that thought in design: the characters tended to be samey (almost all of them have projectiles and the basic moves were literally identical) because the designers were more focused on features external to the core gameplay experience, like the motion-capture graphics and the gorey finishers. Essentially, it was taking the concept of the Easter egg in design and elevating it to a core principle. When they tried to "elevate" the gameplay they initially did so by inserting preprogrammed combo moves into the game, because, well, people love combos! - but forgetting that the reason people liked combos was because they found those combos themselves organically, by combining the right sequence of regular moves and specials so you could chain together three to five moves and ensure they all hit because that was how the hitboxes and timing worked out, and you needed to have the timing down to make it work - it was a skill issue. A Mortal Kombat combo, on the other hand, was an exact series of button presses following a launching move; it didn't require skill, just memorization.
(As for the others: Killer Instinct was absolutely worse than Mortal Kombat at all of this. Tekken was a Virtua Fighter knockoff that eventually supplanted VF partially because of Sega's collapse and partially because of being associated with the very successful Soul Calibur franchise.)
Really, the simplest way to explain why the Street Fighter games are better designed than the Mortal Kombat games is this: since Street Fighter II debuted in 1991, there have been five more dedicated Street Fighter titles that were distinct games (as opposed to iterations on the next generation title, or crossover games like Marvel Versus Capcom): Alpha, Three, Four, Five, and Six. In the same time span, there have been twelve Mortal Kombat games, because Mortal Kombat games simply don't have the play life that Street Fighter games do; they rely on novelty of the next title to drive the franchise. If you go back and play Street Fighter Alpha (released in 1995) today, it holds up and is a great game. If you go back and play Mortal Kombat 3 today (also released in 1995), it is shit, because it was shit then.
posted by mightygodking at 8:57 AM on May 19, 2023 [23 favorites]
Speaking as someone who dumped a lot of quarters into these games when the competitive scene was just starting up, the quick and dirty answer is that fighting games that tend to become esports are the ones where 1.) the character base is varied 2.) the design team pays attention to intercharacter balance and 3. then tries to address any glaring power incongruities.
Street Fighter II and its sequels became an esport because Street Fighter II is, all things considered, extremely well balanced as fighting games of the period go: Ken and Guile are somewhat more powerful than the other members of the "core eight" but as the sequels came out the designers found ways to address those issues (giving Chun Li a projectile, giving Zangief a projectile-avoid attack, toning down damage levels on some of the more powerful characters' moves) so by the time Super Street Fighter II Turbo, the final iteration of the SF2 era of the franchise, came out the character balance wasn't perfect and some characters needed more player skill than others to be competitive, but at the same time every character had good matchups and bad matchups, and this was in a game where every character mostly played very differently than one another: playing Cammy is not like playing Vega is not like playing Ryu.
This design philosophy has generally informed a lot of fighting game design, especially in Japan, which is at least part of the reason most of the fighting games which become esports have primarily Japanese design teams. In the arcade esports scene in the 90s and 2000s, the big fighting games other than the Street Fighter franchise were SNK's Samurai Showdown and King of Fighters and Sega's Virtua Fighter, all of which offered the same attention to intercharacter balance and variety and all of which offered a different novelty to differentiate themselves from SF (Samurai Showdown was about striking range of various swords, KOF about team combinations, and Virtua Fighter about timing and opportunism without any magic powers). When Nintendo debuted Smash, they very explicitly wanted Smash to be a simplified version of Street Fighter where environmental awareness was highly important, and they mostly succeeded.
Mortal Kombat, at the time, didn't really offer any of that thought in design: the characters tended to be samey (almost all of them have projectiles and the basic moves were literally identical) because the designers were more focused on features external to the core gameplay experience, like the motion-capture graphics and the gorey finishers. Essentially, it was taking the concept of the Easter egg in design and elevating it to a core principle. When they tried to "elevate" the gameplay they initially did so by inserting preprogrammed combo moves into the game, because, well, people love combos! - but forgetting that the reason people liked combos was because they found those combos themselves organically, by combining the right sequence of regular moves and specials so you could chain together three to five moves and ensure they all hit because that was how the hitboxes and timing worked out, and you needed to have the timing down to make it work - it was a skill issue. A Mortal Kombat combo, on the other hand, was an exact series of button presses following a launching move; it didn't require skill, just memorization.
(As for the others: Killer Instinct was absolutely worse than Mortal Kombat at all of this. Tekken was a Virtua Fighter knockoff that eventually supplanted VF partially because of Sega's collapse and partially because of being associated with the very successful Soul Calibur franchise.)
Really, the simplest way to explain why the Street Fighter games are better designed than the Mortal Kombat games is this: since Street Fighter II debuted in 1991, there have been five more dedicated Street Fighter titles that were distinct games (as opposed to iterations on the next generation title, or crossover games like Marvel Versus Capcom): Alpha, Three, Four, Five, and Six. In the same time span, there have been twelve Mortal Kombat games, because Mortal Kombat games simply don't have the play life that Street Fighter games do; they rely on novelty of the next title to drive the franchise. If you go back and play Street Fighter Alpha (released in 1995) today, it holds up and is a great game. If you go back and play Mortal Kombat 3 today (also released in 1995), it is shit, because it was shit then.
posted by mightygodking at 8:57 AM on May 19, 2023 [23 favorites]
The best thing about the 1995 Mortal Kombat film is Christopher Lambert as a proto-Tommy Wiseau.
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:13 AM on May 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:13 AM on May 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
recall when this game first came out and all the ESRB pearl-clutching and it's a whole ass thing you can google for anyone who isn't aware of that bit of gaming history.
The MK series has always felt a bit try-hard and yet there's something about it that I still find compelling. The more current games in the series from 9, 10, & 11 onwards has leaned into the ridiculousness of the story and the world it tries to tell (they rarely succeed at this) but I love that they also kind of just hand-wave shit and its about corny villains and heroes in ridiculous outfits fighting to save the planet. It's so very stupid and so very violent.
I LOVE IT COMPLETELY.
GET OVER HERE!!
posted by Fizz at 11:11 AM on May 19
I'm probably not going to play this. because I don't have a PS5 and playing it on the Switch seems...wrong, but when I have picked up the newer games it's 100% for the stupid story. I can't explain it. I watched the 2021 movie, too, and I liked it. I don't know. Sometimes I just want to drop in and see what my old buddy Subzero is up to.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:22 AM on May 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
The MK series has always felt a bit try-hard and yet there's something about it that I still find compelling. The more current games in the series from 9, 10, & 11 onwards has leaned into the ridiculousness of the story and the world it tries to tell (they rarely succeed at this) but I love that they also kind of just hand-wave shit and its about corny villains and heroes in ridiculous outfits fighting to save the planet. It's so very stupid and so very violent.
I LOVE IT COMPLETELY.
GET OVER HERE!!
posted by Fizz at 11:11 AM on May 19
I'm probably not going to play this. because I don't have a PS5 and playing it on the Switch seems...wrong, but when I have picked up the newer games it's 100% for the stupid story. I can't explain it. I watched the 2021 movie, too, and I liked it. I don't know. Sometimes I just want to drop in and see what my old buddy Subzero is up to.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:22 AM on May 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
There’s also the Australia-only spin-off Mortal Numbat, where you play adorable marsupials engaged in martial arts mayhem. (For more numbat, less Kombat.)
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:49 AM on May 19, 2023
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:49 AM on May 19, 2023
Morel Combat is just an alternal title for Super Mario Brothers.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 9:59 AM on May 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by paper chromatographologist at 9:59 AM on May 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
They have had so many fatalities done to them…
posted by Going To Maine at 10:06 AM on May 19, 2023
posted by Going To Maine at 10:06 AM on May 19, 2023
The best thing about the 1995 Mortal Kombat film is Christopher Lambert as a proto-Tommy Wiseau.
My favorite part of the Mortal Kombat movie was when they go chasing after a villain into some tunnels and they're brushing aside huge cobwebs and saying, "I think she went this way."
posted by straight at 10:09 AM on May 19, 2023 [7 favorites]
My favorite part of the Mortal Kombat movie was when they go chasing after a villain into some tunnels and they're brushing aside huge cobwebs and saying, "I think she went this way."
posted by straight at 10:09 AM on May 19, 2023 [7 favorites]
"I think she went this way."
Why yes, there is a RiffTrax for this movie.
posted by Servo5678 at 10:26 AM on May 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Why yes, there is a RiffTrax for this movie.
posted by Servo5678 at 10:26 AM on May 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
They should make a mod where all the gore is replaced by cartoonish sex stuff no reason or explanation just you rip off a guys arm and he erupts in a fountain of waggly penii and bouncy ball boobies like a porn piniata
posted by The otter lady at 10:38 AM on May 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by The otter lady at 10:38 AM on May 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
I would have guessed the non-violent Australian marsupial-centric spinoff would be Moral Wombat.
posted by Pickman's Next Top Model at 10:55 AM on May 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Pickman's Next Top Model at 10:55 AM on May 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
I want every game to have a "hippie mode" like Serious Sam that changes blood splatters to flowers and replaces gibbs with pumpkins, carrots and other vegetables.
posted by straight at 11:01 AM on May 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by straight at 11:01 AM on May 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
when I have picked up the newer games it's 100% for the stupid story
Same! Though it's not so much as I have picked them up as I have rushed to YouTube to watch all the intro scenes, story beats and cutscenes starting from MK 9 (2011) on.
Winking nods to long-time fans, self-mockery, surprisingly moving scenes between some of the characters, a sincere-but-doomed-to-fail effort at resolving the many continuity snarls in service to forging a not-bad-at-all coherent narrative: I love it all.
And the guest fighters! Folks, in MK 11, you can have Robocop fight the Terminator. You can have Rambo fight the winner of that fight. Spawn vs Joker. For some of us, these are match-ups we'd been dreaming of for decades. And the intro dialogues from these guests show that the writing team really did their homework and truly love the characters they've brought over.
Yeah, I know the gore can be off-putting -- that's the main reason I haven't played any of the games since my teenage years. But props to the writers, animators, and voice actors for some of the dialogue and story beats they pull off in the entries from the last few years.
posted by lord_wolf at 12:09 PM on May 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Same! Though it's not so much as I have picked them up as I have rushed to YouTube to watch all the intro scenes, story beats and cutscenes starting from MK 9 (2011) on.
Winking nods to long-time fans, self-mockery, surprisingly moving scenes between some of the characters, a sincere-but-doomed-to-fail effort at resolving the many continuity snarls in service to forging a not-bad-at-all coherent narrative: I love it all.
And the guest fighters! Folks, in MK 11, you can have Robocop fight the Terminator. You can have Rambo fight the winner of that fight. Spawn vs Joker. For some of us, these are match-ups we'd been dreaming of for decades. And the intro dialogues from these guests show that the writing team really did their homework and truly love the characters they've brought over.
Yeah, I know the gore can be off-putting -- that's the main reason I haven't played any of the games since my teenage years. But props to the writers, animators, and voice actors for some of the dialogue and story beats they pull off in the entries from the last few years.
posted by lord_wolf at 12:09 PM on May 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
The best thing about the 1995 Mortal Kombat film is Christopher Lambert as a proto-Tommy Wiseau.
You're not wrong, but there is so much to unpack here.
posted by mhoye at 12:46 PM on May 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
You're not wrong, but there is so much to unpack here.
posted by mhoye at 12:46 PM on May 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
The best thing about the 1995 Mortal Kombat film is Christopher Lambert as a proto-Tommy Wiseau.
I remember watching some comedy special ages ago, I think it was maybe Chris Rock? But they're in a shop looking at music and movies, and he wanders over to a customer looking at one of the Highlander movies.
"Wait, you're buying a Christopher Lambert movie?"
"Yeah...?"
"...are ya in it?!"
This still gets a surprising amount of play in my head.
posted by xedrik at 1:37 PM on May 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
I remember watching some comedy special ages ago, I think it was maybe Chris Rock? But they're in a shop looking at music and movies, and he wanders over to a customer looking at one of the Highlander movies.
"Wait, you're buying a Christopher Lambert movie?"
"Yeah...?"
"...are ya in it?!"
This still gets a surprising amount of play in my head.
posted by xedrik at 1:37 PM on May 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
Look, Christopher Lambert being in Mortal
Kombat is the bookend to Highlander.
“There can only be one” to “Finish him!”
posted by nubs at 2:07 PM on May 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Kombat is the bookend to Highlander.
“There can only be one” to “Finish him!”
posted by nubs at 2:07 PM on May 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Maybe, after winning the Prize, his French accented Scottish Highlander went to an alternate reality to be part of the Mortal Kombat universe as a thundergod who gets humans to fight to the death as part of some bizarre tournament against beings from another dimension, is all
I’m saying.
posted by nubs at 2:13 PM on May 19, 2023
I’m saying.
posted by nubs at 2:13 PM on May 19, 2023
About which games get to be esports and which do not:
Multiplayer games have to be carefully designed for fairness, , while still being varied and deep enough to be interesting. The game must also sell well enough so people will know and care about it. The fairest game in the world won't have anyone play it if no one knows it exists.
A fighting game with one possible character can be obviously fair, but it isn't so interesting. Asymmetry is interesting, and the way fighting games have evolved means high asymmetry is how they achieved depth.
But asymmetry is also the source of many design challenges for fighting games as esports. The more different characters are, the harder to keep them all balanced. Not only is it difficult to balance characters who play in entirely different ways, but each additional character has to be tested against every other character, not just for balance but to eliminate bugs.
The only good way to make sure characters play well against each other in all possible matchups is playtesting. More variety means more playtesting. More characters mean much more playtesting. Playtesting requires time and money. And while people definitely play Mortal Kombat games against each other, if it's not made a development priority, the playtesting won't be done. Games don't tend to become esports by accident, fighting games especially.
This brings us back to popularity. Games tend not to become popular because they're fair, but because they're flashy and fun. Developers that spend millions of dollars on game balance but the game then fails to earn a profit won't be in business for long. It seems to me that the Mortal Kombat games have always chosen to spend their money on flash over strong balance. Certainly that was their reputation back in the arcade days.
Anyway... it's weird to think that Mortal Kombat has survived for this long. It's always been a very nineties series. The story of the second game had all the souls on Earth sucked up into a portal except for the Kombatants, where the heck do you go from there? There are other Midway games that could stand to be revived, some designed by the same people. How about a new Rampage game, I don't think its designers (who founded the arcade game company Game Refuge) are doing anything right now, although it has been decades since they were doing a lot of work, time takes its toll on us all. But how about Smash T.V? NBA Jam and NFL Blitz? (I've heard they've made a remake of Blitz with some changes, but outside the arcade environment I wonder if it could be successful? Oh well.)
posted by JHarris at 2:29 PM on May 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Multiplayer games have to be carefully designed for fairness, , while still being varied and deep enough to be interesting. The game must also sell well enough so people will know and care about it. The fairest game in the world won't have anyone play it if no one knows it exists.
A fighting game with one possible character can be obviously fair, but it isn't so interesting. Asymmetry is interesting, and the way fighting games have evolved means high asymmetry is how they achieved depth.
But asymmetry is also the source of many design challenges for fighting games as esports. The more different characters are, the harder to keep them all balanced. Not only is it difficult to balance characters who play in entirely different ways, but each additional character has to be tested against every other character, not just for balance but to eliminate bugs.
The only good way to make sure characters play well against each other in all possible matchups is playtesting. More variety means more playtesting. More characters mean much more playtesting. Playtesting requires time and money. And while people definitely play Mortal Kombat games against each other, if it's not made a development priority, the playtesting won't be done. Games don't tend to become esports by accident, fighting games especially.
This brings us back to popularity. Games tend not to become popular because they're fair, but because they're flashy and fun. Developers that spend millions of dollars on game balance but the game then fails to earn a profit won't be in business for long. It seems to me that the Mortal Kombat games have always chosen to spend their money on flash over strong balance. Certainly that was their reputation back in the arcade days.
Anyway... it's weird to think that Mortal Kombat has survived for this long. It's always been a very nineties series. The story of the second game had all the souls on Earth sucked up into a portal except for the Kombatants, where the heck do you go from there? There are other Midway games that could stand to be revived, some designed by the same people. How about a new Rampage game, I don't think its designers (who founded the arcade game company Game Refuge) are doing anything right now, although it has been decades since they were doing a lot of work, time takes its toll on us all. But how about Smash T.V? NBA Jam and NFL Blitz? (I've heard they've made a remake of Blitz with some changes, but outside the arcade environment I wonder if it could be successful? Oh well.)
posted by JHarris at 2:29 PM on May 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Having watched both Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat come out in the arcades when I was in high school but didn't keep track of these games since then, I am endlessly fascinated by the lore that's been developed for both games but especially MK. I didn't realize until a couple of years ago that there's apparently entire epic sagas of back story for these characters and the weird multiverse dimensions they're from and why they're fighting. I mean, Gauntlet? Sure, I could believe that someone wrote some D&D ripoff lore for them. But Mortal Kombat? A fighting game? Surely that kind of thing wouldn't need backstory, right? To me, finding out about MK lore was as if I learned the reason those ghosts are chasing Pac-Man is because they're the spirits of wrongfully convicted prisoners that he sent to death row (also Pac-Man is a judge for some reason), except for Blinky who is just someone that Pac-Man ran over with his car one rainy night (Pac-Man also has poor night vision ever since his Lasik surgery).
posted by mhum at 2:58 PM on May 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by mhum at 2:58 PM on May 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
I think SF2 was the game that really introduced the deep lore backstory, those character endings were all we had to go by back then so they became Important. MK also had character bios and histories in attract mode.
My friend Bryan really got into MK and MK2. He managed to find and beat Reptile in MK1, a then-infamous secret opponent. Then MK3 came out and introduced (minor key) The Run Button. Bryan hated, still hates, the run button. It destroyed his interest in that game, and with it, the whole series. But he'll still play MK2 if he sees it somewhere.
posted by JHarris at 4:03 PM on May 19, 2023
My friend Bryan really got into MK and MK2. He managed to find and beat Reptile in MK1, a then-infamous secret opponent. Then MK3 came out and introduced (minor key) The Run Button. Bryan hated, still hates, the run button. It destroyed his interest in that game, and with it, the whole series. But he'll still play MK2 if he sees it somewhere.
posted by JHarris at 4:03 PM on May 19, 2023
Sorrel Kombat, where obscure herbs fight for flavor supremacy.
Lovage vs. Chervil
FIGHT!
posted by slogger at 5:07 PM on May 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Lovage vs. Chervil
FIGHT!
posted by slogger at 5:07 PM on May 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Well that got... gooey.
posted by elwoodwiles at 6:46 PM on May 19, 2023
posted by elwoodwiles at 6:46 PM on May 19, 2023
If you're interested in what makes fighting games good for esports, you might like the writings of David Sirlin.
posted by The genius who rejected Anno's budget proposal. at 8:05 PM on May 19, 2023
posted by The genius who rejected Anno's budget proposal. at 8:05 PM on May 19, 2023
Somewhere, Penn & Teller dust off the treatment for “Desert Bus: The Motion Picture” in giddy anticipation.
posted by dr_dank at 5:17 AM on May 20, 2023
posted by dr_dank at 5:17 AM on May 20, 2023
The MK series has always felt a bit try-hard and yet there's something about it that I still find compelling. The more current games in the series from 9, 10, & 11 onwards has leaned into the ridiculousness of the story and the world it tries to tell
I have never been into fighting games* and I was genuinely surprised when I learned that they actually have stories.
*Except for the time in college when my girlfriend's roommate kept challenging me to fight in Marvel vs. Capcom 2, and kept kicking my ass, so I secretly learned all the special moves for Hulk and kicked his ass once and never played it again.
posted by brundlefly at 5:07 PM on May 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
I have never been into fighting games* and I was genuinely surprised when I learned that they actually have stories.
*Except for the time in college when my girlfriend's roommate kept challenging me to fight in Marvel vs. Capcom 2, and kept kicking my ass, so I secretly learned all the special moves for Hulk and kicked his ass once and never played it again.
posted by brundlefly at 5:07 PM on May 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
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posted by Servo5678 at 7:38 AM on May 19, 2023 [5 favorites]