Far and Away the Most Successful, and Maybe Also the Most Loathed
May 20, 2023 11:29 AM Subscribe
Some of that hate has to do with aesthetics—either you’re down with DMB’s amalgamation of soul-stirring Joshua Tree anthem rock and smooth jazz and bluegrass-fiddle hoedown and hacky-sack funk or you aren’t ... Most of the time, though, if someone tells you they don’t like Dave Matthews, they’re really voicing a deep tribal aversion to the type of person they picture when they picture a Dave Matthews fan—spiritually incurious trustafarians, pumpkin-spice basics, fleece-vest IPA bros, or whichever straw-man stereotype offends their imagination most. from The Dave Matthews Guide to Living and Dying [GQ; ungated]
This is a wonderful profile. Much to my wife's chagrin I'm a huge Dave Matthews fan. She goes right in the tribal aversion camp.
Live at Red Rocks has been one of my favorite records for twenty years and it will probably be for another twenty.
Rock on, Dave!
posted by kbanas at 12:01 PM on May 20, 2023 [9 favorites]
Live at Red Rocks has been one of my favorite records for twenty years and it will probably be for another twenty.
Rock on, Dave!
posted by kbanas at 12:01 PM on May 20, 2023 [9 favorites]
I saw Dave Matthews Band, well before they were unpopular, maybe even before they were popular. I saw them at this concert on the 1996 H.O.R.D.E. Festival tour, along with a lot of amazing people that it's ridiculous I all saw in the same day.
They do a weekend-long stand at The Gorge Amphitheater every year over Labor Day weekend, have done for years, and that's not that far away from me. But I'm not a SuperFan and so I don't go because it could be a bit alienating to be amongst that group of people.
Anyway, I've never understood the DMB hate. I remember a zillion years ago an NPR piece about this new band that used unusual instrumentation and song forms and it was a long while after The Dream Academy, and it was DMB. I just tried looking through the NPR website but cannot find this article, probably because it was early 1990s and we weren't archiving all the things back then.
So, okay with DMB in general, like them enough to want to see them at their headlining weekend but unwilling to engage with that as a casual fan, never sure why anyone hated them. They were fun when I saw them nearly 30 years ago.
posted by hippybear at 12:02 PM on May 20, 2023 [8 favorites]
They do a weekend-long stand at The Gorge Amphitheater every year over Labor Day weekend, have done for years, and that's not that far away from me. But I'm not a SuperFan and so I don't go because it could be a bit alienating to be amongst that group of people.
Anyway, I've never understood the DMB hate. I remember a zillion years ago an NPR piece about this new band that used unusual instrumentation and song forms and it was a long while after The Dream Academy, and it was DMB. I just tried looking through the NPR website but cannot find this article, probably because it was early 1990s and we weren't archiving all the things back then.
So, okay with DMB in general, like them enough to want to see them at their headlining weekend but unwilling to engage with that as a casual fan, never sure why anyone hated them. They were fun when I saw them nearly 30 years ago.
posted by hippybear at 12:02 PM on May 20, 2023 [8 favorites]
Dave Matthews is my friends backyard neighbor. I've never met him, but his kids had a sweet treehouse.
From all I hear he was a good neighbor.
posted by keep_evolving at 12:10 PM on May 20, 2023 [10 favorites]
From all I hear he was a good neighbor.
posted by keep_evolving at 12:10 PM on May 20, 2023 [10 favorites]
Sorry, no, they suck. Can't remember whether they were included in that "Minivan Rock" list recently, but they should have been.
However, I will say that this cover of "Crash" by Stevie Nicks manages to purge most of the winking sleaziness and go achingly sensual. So there were at least some good bones. In that one song. Besides the one they're singing about, I mean.
posted by praemunire at 12:13 PM on May 20, 2023 [7 favorites]
However, I will say that this cover of "Crash" by Stevie Nicks manages to purge most of the winking sleaziness and go achingly sensual. So there were at least some good bones. In that one song. Besides the one they're singing about, I mean.
posted by praemunire at 12:13 PM on May 20, 2023 [7 favorites]
Certain people have to make hating a band a big part of their personality. I don't get it. I am mostly indifferent about DMB. We owned one of his albums, probably the one with Crash on it. I've always loved his guitar style, very percussive. He seems like a decent dude (more so after I read this article) and he makes interesting music.
The quote used for the FPP really speaks to me. I'm a Phish fan, and I can't even say the name of the band without people coming from miles around to say how much they hate Phish. Most of them just hate the idea of Phish, or what they think the idea is. They hate what they think the fans are, they hate what they think the band is. Once I drill down into what they think, I discover they are almost always wrong and have no real idea about what the band is or does. I've sat next to more college professors and lawyers at Phish shows than I have hippies. Yes, that lawyer might be wearing a tie-dye and they might have ingested some mushrooms, but Monday morning the'll be back in Normal People Clothes. They're just a band of nerds making very-enjoyable, inoffensive music for a justifiably-rabid fanbase. Their music isn't for everyone, but nobody's music is. Just move on. That's all.
Rock on, Dave!
posted by bondcliff at 12:15 PM on May 20, 2023 [36 favorites]
The quote used for the FPP really speaks to me. I'm a Phish fan, and I can't even say the name of the band without people coming from miles around to say how much they hate Phish. Most of them just hate the idea of Phish, or what they think the idea is. They hate what they think the fans are, they hate what they think the band is. Once I drill down into what they think, I discover they are almost always wrong and have no real idea about what the band is or does. I've sat next to more college professors and lawyers at Phish shows than I have hippies. Yes, that lawyer might be wearing a tie-dye and they might have ingested some mushrooms, but Monday morning the'll be back in Normal People Clothes. They're just a band of nerds making very-enjoyable, inoffensive music for a justifiably-rabid fanbase. Their music isn't for everyone, but nobody's music is. Just move on. That's all.
Rock on, Dave!
posted by bondcliff at 12:15 PM on May 20, 2023 [36 favorites]
Glad to see the "Your favorite band sucks" commenting is still alive and well here on MetaFilter! 24 years and still going!
posted by hippybear at 12:16 PM on May 20, 2023 [51 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 12:16 PM on May 20, 2023 [51 favorites]
I guess I was a tween when DMB was first getting big and it was sort of that age where you're just aggressively soaking up media and anything you hear on the radio MUST be the high water mark of culture or else why would it be on the radio right? I guess in college I spent some time being really ashamed of how much I had liked that mellow feel-good 90s alt-rock (your Blues Traveler, your Spin Doctors. etc.) but these days feeling embarrassed about enjoying things seems like a waste of energy. Further, I went on to listen to way too much ska for Dave Matthews to move the needle on the "Corny Bullshit Phobos Likes" meter.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 12:17 PM on May 20, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 12:17 PM on May 20, 2023 [8 favorites]
I think DMB suffered from being adjacent to bad experiences that have nothing to do with the music. Like how their first two albums were the soundtrack to every frat-bro party and awkward college hook-up on campuses between 94-97. There are probably former sorority girls who involuntarily shudder to this day if "Tripping Billies" shows up on Spotify.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 12:21 PM on May 20, 2023 [17 favorites]
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 12:21 PM on May 20, 2023 [17 favorites]
This was an enjoyable read. I especially liked Matthews comparing his singing voice to “Kermit the Frog with a sinus infection.”
He seems like a reasonably self-aware guy. I also remember seeing DMB on the ‘96 HORDE tour (I was all of 14). The OP is right that in the mid-‘90s anything but cynicism was a real risk. I like a lot of stuff that’s even uncooler than those guys, and it gives me a little thrill knowing I’m enjoying stuff so many people go out of their way to hate.
posted by armeowda at 12:30 PM on May 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
He seems like a reasonably self-aware guy. I also remember seeing DMB on the ‘96 HORDE tour (I was all of 14). The OP is right that in the mid-‘90s anything but cynicism was a real risk. I like a lot of stuff that’s even uncooler than those guys, and it gives me a little thrill knowing I’m enjoying stuff so many people go out of their way to hate.
posted by armeowda at 12:30 PM on May 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
I've always felt a bit sorry for Dave Matthews - I got the sense the audience he desperately wanted, and was trying to earn, was thoughtful and serious 30-40-somethings, but the audience he got, and which was too lucrative to turn away from, was people making playlists for frat parties.
posted by kickingtheground at 12:42 PM on May 20, 2023 [19 favorites]
posted by kickingtheground at 12:42 PM on May 20, 2023 [19 favorites]
Thinking about it, that NPR article must have been around 1993, 94... maybe around the time that What Would You Say was asking it to radio. In fact, I'm sure that it was John Popper playing harmonica on that track that led to DMB being in the H.O.R.D.E Festival. That NPR piece was definitely "this is a new band doing promo work" sort of story.
posted by hippybear at 1:17 PM on May 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 1:17 PM on May 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
I like Dave's voice, but the earnestness with which they play mediocre music just turns me off. If they seemed as bored playing as I am listening I might respect them more.
posted by OHenryPacey at 1:49 PM on May 20, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by OHenryPacey at 1:49 PM on May 20, 2023 [5 favorites]
I was kind of at DMB ground zero as a student at UVa in the mid-90s. Hadn't released an album when I got there; Crash was out before I left. They had built up a good following when I showed up - locally quite famous and had been touring the east coast; I think they were done with their local residency at Traxx and were way past playing at frats (couldn't really fault them for that - there weren't many places to play in Charlottesville). So I never really had an opinion on their fans because even though I wasn't a big fan of theirs they were kind of "everybody's band" when I was in school and it felt like they fit in with the whole Blues Traveller / Hootie / Counting Crows scene OK. Their fans were just my fellow students and I never had enough contact with their scene after leaving school to form a different opinion.
I'm a Phish fan, and I can't even say the name of the band without people coming from miles around to say how much they hate Phish. Most of them just hate the idea of Phish, or what they think the idea is. They hate what they think the fans are, they hate what they think the band is.
I wonder if your experience with Phish was similar to mine with DMB - like, you were on board before they got big and got the reputation?
posted by LionIndex at 1:51 PM on May 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
I'm a Phish fan, and I can't even say the name of the band without people coming from miles around to say how much they hate Phish. Most of them just hate the idea of Phish, or what they think the idea is. They hate what they think the fans are, they hate what they think the band is.
I wonder if your experience with Phish was similar to mine with DMB - like, you were on board before they got big and got the reputation?
posted by LionIndex at 1:51 PM on May 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
I still remember the first time I listened to Satellite on Under the Table and Dreaming. I remember where I was, what time of day it was, and I remember from that point on I was hooked. Busted Stuff is easily my favorite album of any group, start to finish. My Spotify stats for that album are embarrassing at this point.
For as much as I listen to DMB though, you’d think I’d been to every concert I could go to. But I’ve only seen him live three times. I’m not as into any of his songs/albums after Busted Stuff (though I enjoyed parts of Come Tomorrow and I’m excited to check out his newest album). You could easily say I’m a casual fan.
Interviews of Dave like this GQ article encourage me that it’s entirely okay for me to be a casual fan of the stuff I like and disregard the rest. Seems like Dave would be fine with it.
Keep playing and creating, Dave!
posted by MewThat at 2:00 PM on May 20, 2023 [9 favorites]
For as much as I listen to DMB though, you’d think I’d been to every concert I could go to. But I’ve only seen him live three times. I’m not as into any of his songs/albums after Busted Stuff (though I enjoyed parts of Come Tomorrow and I’m excited to check out his newest album). You could easily say I’m a casual fan.
Interviews of Dave like this GQ article encourage me that it’s entirely okay for me to be a casual fan of the stuff I like and disregard the rest. Seems like Dave would be fine with it.
Keep playing and creating, Dave!
posted by MewThat at 2:00 PM on May 20, 2023 [9 favorites]
Hey, MewThat! If you decide you'd like to do the Gorge Amphitheater shows sometime, I'd love to go with you! We could have a total blast together, I think.
posted by hippybear at 2:01 PM on May 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 2:01 PM on May 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
Drew Magary tweeted the link and I wasn't going to read it because as a decades-long DMB fan I know the drill and I was expecting the author to shit on the band the entire article. But it was so well done and respectful and I'm glad I took the chance.
I knew the comments here would be less respectful because letting people like things just can't be done here.
Seeing them at the Gorge is on my bucket list. Oh, and Crash Into Me is a dirty little masterpiece and after lo these many years it still can make the tips of my ears delightfully pink in that special kinda way.
posted by kimberussell at 2:12 PM on May 20, 2023 [10 favorites]
I knew the comments here would be less respectful because letting people like things just can't be done here.
Seeing them at the Gorge is on my bucket list. Oh, and Crash Into Me is a dirty little masterpiece and after lo these many years it still can make the tips of my ears delightfully pink in that special kinda way.
posted by kimberussell at 2:12 PM on May 20, 2023 [10 favorites]
I wonder if your experience with Phish was similar to mine with DMB - like, you were on board before they got big and got the reputation?
Nope, I had heard about them, living in New England, but I only really I got into them just as they were breaking out and playing larger arenas. About 1993. First place I saw them was a summer shed, Great Woods in MA. I got into their songs and albums before I ever heard a jam. I think a lot of Gen-Xers walked into a dorm room just as their roommate was deep into the noisiest, dirtiest, most arrhythmic jam possible, they (rightly) asked "what the hell is this shit?", found out it was Phish, and it imprinted on them that that was what Phish did, and that's only what they did. They will do that, occasionally, but about 99% of the time they're doing something that is very much not that. I think maybe I was fortunate to come at them the other way. First song of theirs I heard was actually on the radio, WBCN in Boston.
I can understand not liking DMB, or any band, I just don't understand the fury with which people need to express their hatred. Patton Oswalt had a bit about how, when he was younger, he put so much energy into hating bands and letting everyone know how much he hated a band, and as he got older he realized how stupid that is. I think I stopped with the Your Favorite Band Sucks thing in my mid 30s. Let people enjoy things.
posted by bondcliff at 2:13 PM on May 20, 2023 [11 favorites]
Nope, I had heard about them, living in New England, but I only really I got into them just as they were breaking out and playing larger arenas. About 1993. First place I saw them was a summer shed, Great Woods in MA. I got into their songs and albums before I ever heard a jam. I think a lot of Gen-Xers walked into a dorm room just as their roommate was deep into the noisiest, dirtiest, most arrhythmic jam possible, they (rightly) asked "what the hell is this shit?", found out it was Phish, and it imprinted on them that that was what Phish did, and that's only what they did. They will do that, occasionally, but about 99% of the time they're doing something that is very much not that. I think maybe I was fortunate to come at them the other way. First song of theirs I heard was actually on the radio, WBCN in Boston.
I can understand not liking DMB, or any band, I just don't understand the fury with which people need to express their hatred. Patton Oswalt had a bit about how, when he was younger, he put so much energy into hating bands and letting everyone know how much he hated a band, and as he got older he realized how stupid that is. I think I stopped with the Your Favorite Band Sucks thing in my mid 30s. Let people enjoy things.
posted by bondcliff at 2:13 PM on May 20, 2023 [11 favorites]
I confess to being a Dave Matthews fan, both the band and the person. I first saw them at Traxx in Charlottesville many decades ago. I have seen the band around 35 times. I am actually a Deadhead through and through, but have come to appreciate Dave. I have met and spoken with Dave at least 5 times.
A quick Dave the person story. We were at an after party for the band at the band's hotel. Another friend had brought his 10 and 12 year old daughters to the show and to the after party. All the girls wanted to do was meet Dave. It was getting late. Like 1:00am late. The girls were about to give up. (So was my friend, their father.) Right at the point they were gathering their stuff, in walked Dave. Another friend walked up to Dave and said these two young girls have been waiting to meet him. He immediately walked over, sat down with them and started talking to them. He talked to them for like 15 minutes. He was well aware of what grade they would be in based on their age and what they would be going through. He answered every question they had of him and he asked many questions of them. To me, the funny part was when the shot person walked past and offered us all shots of tequila, Dave, mid sentence to the girls grabbed two shots off the tray, put them down and kept on talking. I think his twins were around the girls age at the time. He seemed to want to talk to the girls more than the older fans and the corporate types at the party.
I love that he does not take himself too seriously. Talk to him and he is just anyone's brother. I love the covers he does at his shows. Everyone loves to do Sledgehammer but that does not deter Dave from doing his version and doing his Dad dancing to it too..
It is an overworked line, but he truly is one of the hardest working people in show business. He tours year round. Plays the sheds in the summer and the arenas in the winter. He single handedly put Red Light Management on the map. They are now the largest managers of musicians in the country.
Oh, and a shoutout to Carter!
posted by JohnnyGunn at 2:18 PM on May 20, 2023 [20 favorites]
A quick Dave the person story. We were at an after party for the band at the band's hotel. Another friend had brought his 10 and 12 year old daughters to the show and to the after party. All the girls wanted to do was meet Dave. It was getting late. Like 1:00am late. The girls were about to give up. (So was my friend, their father.) Right at the point they were gathering their stuff, in walked Dave. Another friend walked up to Dave and said these two young girls have been waiting to meet him. He immediately walked over, sat down with them and started talking to them. He talked to them for like 15 minutes. He was well aware of what grade they would be in based on their age and what they would be going through. He answered every question they had of him and he asked many questions of them. To me, the funny part was when the shot person walked past and offered us all shots of tequila, Dave, mid sentence to the girls grabbed two shots off the tray, put them down and kept on talking. I think his twins were around the girls age at the time. He seemed to want to talk to the girls more than the older fans and the corporate types at the party.
I love that he does not take himself too seriously. Talk to him and he is just anyone's brother. I love the covers he does at his shows. Everyone loves to do Sledgehammer but that does not deter Dave from doing his version and doing his Dad dancing to it too..
It is an overworked line, but he truly is one of the hardest working people in show business. He tours year round. Plays the sheds in the summer and the arenas in the winter. He single handedly put Red Light Management on the map. They are now the largest managers of musicians in the country.
Oh, and a shoutout to Carter!
posted by JohnnyGunn at 2:18 PM on May 20, 2023 [20 favorites]
I have a hard time imaging that Red Light Management is a bigger music manager than Live Nation and their subsidiaries, but okay.
posted by hippybear at 2:29 PM on May 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 2:29 PM on May 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
Never cared much for his music, but the fact that he worships Chris Whitley means he's OK in my book.
posted by dbiedny at 2:30 PM on May 20, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by dbiedny at 2:30 PM on May 20, 2023 [7 favorites]
I have a half-baked theory that having an intense hatred of bands or a musical style has a lot to do with how we consumed music - and if that will be less of a thing for younger folks.
That is, enforced exposure to something you don’t care for turns into a deep dislike or outright hatred for it. I couldn’t get away from contemporary country music as a kid, so I “hated country” a lot. Still not really my jam but it’s not part of my identity because I can easily avoid any kind of music I don’t like now. I couldn’t stand Fine Young Cannibals back in the day, largely because it seemed like they were always in heavy rotation on MTV.
When everything is radio or MTV, you’re going to keep having to listen to DMB or whatever, so I can see feeling really averse to it. With Spotify and whatnot, if you don’t like a band it’s so much easier to avoid.
Or maybe I’m wrong and the Spotify generations do the same thing, but I’m just too old to be in the loop…
posted by jzb at 2:35 PM on May 20, 2023 [21 favorites]
That is, enforced exposure to something you don’t care for turns into a deep dislike or outright hatred for it. I couldn’t get away from contemporary country music as a kid, so I “hated country” a lot. Still not really my jam but it’s not part of my identity because I can easily avoid any kind of music I don’t like now. I couldn’t stand Fine Young Cannibals back in the day, largely because it seemed like they were always in heavy rotation on MTV.
When everything is radio or MTV, you’re going to keep having to listen to DMB or whatever, so I can see feeling really averse to it. With Spotify and whatnot, if you don’t like a band it’s so much easier to avoid.
Or maybe I’m wrong and the Spotify generations do the same thing, but I’m just too old to be in the loop…
posted by jzb at 2:35 PM on May 20, 2023 [21 favorites]
I've never been a Dave Matthews fan. Or a Phish fan for that matter. Their music is just not my cuppa. As to the fans, I changed my mnd abouut Dave because of a fan who runs one of my favorite coffee shops. His opinion was if you didn't like DMB that was your loss and none of his business. I figured if he had fans like that there must be something to him, though his music remained out of my reach. Phish fans however I always thought of as weekend warriors, the same kind of asshole who runs an accounting firm but plays biker on the weekend. Nice to get confirmation. Honestly though, it's still none of my damn business.
posted by evilDoug at 2:36 PM on May 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by evilDoug at 2:36 PM on May 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
the same kind of asshole who runs an accounting firm but plays biker on the weekend. Nice to get confirmation.
No, my point was they're all just normal humans from all walks of life who just happen to like a thing but have been subject to incorrect assumptions by the sorts of people who incorrectly assume stuff about people. There's a word for those people but I can't quite think of it right now.
posted by bondcliff at 2:49 PM on May 20, 2023 [19 favorites]
No, my point was they're all just normal humans from all walks of life who just happen to like a thing but have been subject to incorrect assumptions by the sorts of people who incorrectly assume stuff about people. There's a word for those people but I can't quite think of it right now.
posted by bondcliff at 2:49 PM on May 20, 2023 [19 favorites]
DMB never struck a chord with me. But some people put so much time and energy into hating certain music that I bet they miss out on connecting with some other music that would have been meaningful to them.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 2:49 PM on May 20, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 2:49 PM on May 20, 2023 [6 favorites]
jzb — I see what you’re saying, but I think I feel the exact same way about certain pop artists like Ed Sheeran that I hear frequently at places like the grocery store…
posted by vanitas at 2:59 PM on May 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by vanitas at 2:59 PM on May 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
That is, enforced exposure to something you don’t care for turns into a deep dislike or outright hatred for it.
which is the biggest explanation for why people hated disco - you couldn't get away from it
the dave matthews band doesn't quite click with me - listenable but not compelling - but it's always good to read about a rock star who isn't full of himself
posted by pyramid termite at 3:00 PM on May 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
which is the biggest explanation for why people hated disco - you couldn't get away from it
the dave matthews band doesn't quite click with me - listenable but not compelling - but it's always good to read about a rock star who isn't full of himself
posted by pyramid termite at 3:00 PM on May 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
I too confess to being a DMB fan. The concerts I saw in Saratoga were spectacular. And I do not fit any of the stereotypes of DMB fans. Also, Dave just seems like a good guy.
posted by bluesky43 at 3:04 PM on May 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by bluesky43 at 3:04 PM on May 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
I'm composing a reply, but .... meh. I guess I learned more flavours of yum that people have. Thank you for sharing.
posted by k3ninho at 3:11 PM on May 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by k3ninho at 3:11 PM on May 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm another person who was put off of both DMB and Phish by their fans back in the 1990s, who I recall as being insufferable (as I'm sure I was as well). Part of what never clicked for me was how fervent the fans were (and are), over what has always seemed to me to be fairly inoffensive but also uninspired music. (I'd put Jimmy Buffet in the same category: competent and instantly recognizable, but unchallenging, music that connects really strongly with its fanbase.)
But, especially reading comments here, I feel bad about having said negative things about all of these acts before; its just a thing some people are into and if so, good for them. I'd probably have a good time if I were to go to a concert, too.
posted by Dip Flash at 3:23 PM on May 20, 2023 [8 favorites]
But, especially reading comments here, I feel bad about having said negative things about all of these acts before; its just a thing some people are into and if so, good for them. I'd probably have a good time if I were to go to a concert, too.
posted by Dip Flash at 3:23 PM on May 20, 2023 [8 favorites]
Addendum to my above re: colleges.
I actually saw Dave and Tim Reynolds during their 2000 college tour, and I found out later from someone who worked the concert backstage that Dave had a guy in his entourage whose job it was to keep the bong going while he was on stage.
At least twice during the show Dave went backstage to let Tim perform some solo noodling, and each time he returned a big cloud of smoke followed him from stage right.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 3:24 PM on May 20, 2023 [6 favorites]
I actually saw Dave and Tim Reynolds during their 2000 college tour, and I found out later from someone who worked the concert backstage that Dave had a guy in his entourage whose job it was to keep the bong going while he was on stage.
At least twice during the show Dave went backstage to let Tim perform some solo noodling, and each time he returned a big cloud of smoke followed him from stage right.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 3:24 PM on May 20, 2023 [6 favorites]
Let people enjoy things.
Counterpoint: let people enjoy hating things in a really low-stakes way!
posted by atoxyl at 3:26 PM on May 20, 2023 [31 favorites]
Counterpoint: let people enjoy hating things in a really low-stakes way!
posted by atoxyl at 3:26 PM on May 20, 2023 [31 favorites]
I mean, I get that it’s all very tired, but are people really catching hell out there for being Dave Matthews fans?
(I like a couple DMB songs)
posted by atoxyl at 3:34 PM on May 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
(I like a couple DMB songs)
posted by atoxyl at 3:34 PM on May 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
I liked DMB back in the day. If I was to give Dave a listen, it would be Live at Luther College - that’s a good LP.
posted by whatevernot at 3:38 PM on May 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by whatevernot at 3:38 PM on May 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
Counterpoint: let people enjoy hating things in a really low-stakes way!
Counter-counterpoint -- you don't have to hate things in a way that shits on other's liking of those things, unless what you actually enjoy is shitting on things others like. Keep your hate to yourself if you have true enjoyable hate. Advertising your hate for things is just a step away from moving to Florida and working to get school libraries to ban books.
posted by hippybear at 3:59 PM on May 20, 2023 [18 favorites]
Counter-counterpoint -- you don't have to hate things in a way that shits on other's liking of those things, unless what you actually enjoy is shitting on things others like. Keep your hate to yourself if you have true enjoyable hate. Advertising your hate for things is just a step away from moving to Florida and working to get school libraries to ban books.
posted by hippybear at 3:59 PM on May 20, 2023 [18 favorites]
I have basically no opinion about DMB, or their fans. It's just not the sort of music that interests me.
Ditto for Phish. I had a friend and roommated who loathed them. I can't bring a single one of their songs to mind or bring myself to care. There's plenty of stuff I can genuinely dislike, such as Polyphonic Spree and Radiohead. :)
posted by Foosnark at 4:02 PM on May 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
Ditto for Phish. I had a friend and roommated who loathed them. I can't bring a single one of their songs to mind or bring myself to care. There's plenty of stuff I can genuinely dislike, such as Polyphonic Spree and Radiohead. :)
posted by Foosnark at 4:02 PM on May 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
There's plenty of stuff I can genuinely dislike, such as Polyphonic Spree
So, it's pistols at dawn, then.
posted by hippybear at 4:05 PM on May 20, 2023 [11 favorites]
So, it's pistols at dawn, then.
posted by hippybear at 4:05 PM on May 20, 2023 [11 favorites]
Well, I'm not going to call my proclamation that I like DMB a "confession" - because that's not anything to be ashamed of. I like them, deal with it.
But I loved the line from the article that describes Dave as "Peter Gabriel, if Peter Gabriel were also somehow Lloyd Dobler". I cannot put my finger on exactly why that felt so right.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:19 PM on May 20, 2023 [15 favorites]
But I loved the line from the article that describes Dave as "Peter Gabriel, if Peter Gabriel were also somehow Lloyd Dobler". I cannot put my finger on exactly why that felt so right.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:19 PM on May 20, 2023 [15 favorites]
I am normally Team Don't Yuck Others' Yum but it feels a little strange to chastise people saying they don't like a band when it's in response to an article that is partially about (and a post that is framed to highlight) the fact that people hate the band. This isn't someone sharing a "hey isn't this cool" live recording or something and people jumping in to hate on it out of the blue, the subject is explicitly (some of) the reasons people don't like the band.
posted by misskaz at 4:23 PM on May 20, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by misskaz at 4:23 PM on May 20, 2023 [8 favorites]
Years ago: Overheard at a small hipster record store specializing in rarities and esoteric music and related books, on a busy packed Saturday afternoon; A pair of giggling teen girls & a suave fairly cute 20s clerk-dude:
Girls: Got any Dave Matthews?
Clerk: Nah, Sorry about that.
Girls: What? You don't think he's cool?
Clerk: Nah, he's great! There's just other places that you can get his stuff.
posted by ovvl at 4:31 PM on May 20, 2023 [11 favorites]
Girls: Got any Dave Matthews?
Clerk: Nah, Sorry about that.
Girls: What? You don't think he's cool?
Clerk: Nah, he's great! There's just other places that you can get his stuff.
posted by ovvl at 4:31 PM on May 20, 2023 [11 favorites]
There was a time, a couple times—about 1996 and 2001, to be exact—when I was pretty into some DMB songs. They're OK. It's cool that they're trying to do things to make the world better.
posted by limeonaire at 4:40 PM on May 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by limeonaire at 4:40 PM on May 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
Dave Matthews Band really evokes no strong feeling in me—except wonder that they are still around. I haven't heard much about them since the early 2000s. Glad they're still kicking around. That said, the music just doesn't affect me one way or the other.
John Mayer on the other hand
posted by not_on_display at 4:41 PM on May 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
John Mayer on the other hand
posted by not_on_display at 4:41 PM on May 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
I am actually attending a wedding right this very minute and the bride and groom are having their first dance to a song I can’t identify, but the vocalist is undoubtedly Dave.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 4:45 PM on May 20, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 4:45 PM on May 20, 2023 [9 favorites]
i hear and appreciate what everyone is saying about criticism, hating, and respect for bands, and respect for respecful criticism. i think it's been a net positive thread but i just want to be clear on one thing and that's we all agree the black eyed peas suck
posted by glonous keming at 4:51 PM on May 20, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by glonous keming at 4:51 PM on May 20, 2023 [9 favorites]
This was genuinely interesting. As a guy exactly DM's age, I... lunge to change the channel if his music ever comes on, but I never could deny the guy made tunes people liked. I'd probably like hanging out with him, much to my former alternakid chagrin.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 4:51 PM on May 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 4:51 PM on May 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
i just want to be clear on one thing and that's we all agree the black eyed peas suck
And yet I saw them open for U2 on their 360 tour and it was the first time I'd ever been in a crowd of ninety-thousand people all jumping up and down at the same time to a song. Which was AMAZING!
posted by hippybear at 4:54 PM on May 20, 2023 [6 favorites]
And yet I saw them open for U2 on their 360 tour and it was the first time I'd ever been in a crowd of ninety-thousand people all jumping up and down at the same time to a song. Which was AMAZING!
posted by hippybear at 4:54 PM on May 20, 2023 [6 favorites]
(Their very early days as a sort of Native Tongues Lite Good Life Cafe on a pop tip also how the hell do these guys know Eazy-E thing weren’t completely terrible. I don’t want to get it started, but where is the love?)
posted by box at 5:10 PM on May 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by box at 5:10 PM on May 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
Just here to say I am extremely pleased that the first comment is what it is. That is exactly what I think about when I think about Dave Matthews.
posted by grumpybear69 at 5:26 PM on May 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 5:26 PM on May 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
I used to like DMB. Casually, never particularly dedicated, but I bought a CD. But they were literally the only band my freshman roommate listened to, and I got so tired of them that I haven’t listened to them since. And I really didn’t like that roommate, which transferred to DMB. But other people are quite welcome to like them. I sometimes wish I could.
posted by kevinbelt at 6:13 PM on May 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by kevinbelt at 6:13 PM on May 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
OK, I asked the groom. The song was “Here On Out” from the 2018 album.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 6:13 PM on May 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 6:13 PM on May 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
DMB had a 2018 album? They didn't stop recording with Crash Into Me?
(I kid, but I really don't know many of their songs at all.)
posted by hippybear at 6:17 PM on May 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
(I kid, but I really don't know many of their songs at all.)
posted by hippybear at 6:17 PM on May 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
Look man, I don't really have time or energy to hate Dave Matthews, or his fans. I am too busy hating Billy Joel.
posted by anhedonic at 7:21 PM on May 20, 2023 [14 favorites]
posted by anhedonic at 7:21 PM on May 20, 2023 [14 favorites]
Because of course nobody could dislike a band because they make cheesy schlock. No, they must be offended by imaginary fans, or other really stupid invalid reasons.
This post is weirdly baiting. Sure, "don't yuck someone's yum" is a fine rule of thumb. Consider also "don't insult me just because I don't like the band that you like"?
We talk a lot about how it's ok to not like a thing, but don't a dick about it. Now I realize some people need to figure out how to like DMB without being a dick about it.
posted by SaltySalticid at 7:29 PM on May 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
This post is weirdly baiting. Sure, "don't yuck someone's yum" is a fine rule of thumb. Consider also "don't insult me just because I don't like the band that you like"?
We talk a lot about how it's ok to not like a thing, but don't a dick about it. Now I realize some people need to figure out how to like DMB without being a dick about it.
posted by SaltySalticid at 7:29 PM on May 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
Now I realize some people need to figure out how to like DMB without being a dick about it.
I just re-read this entire thread and I can't see a single person who is a genuine heartfelt DMB fan, or who is even a casual DMB fan, being a dick toward people who don't like DMB.
Maybe you can provide some citations so we can discuss this with some clarity?
posted by hippybear at 7:34 PM on May 20, 2023 [12 favorites]
I just re-read this entire thread and I can't see a single person who is a genuine heartfelt DMB fan, or who is even a casual DMB fan, being a dick toward people who don't like DMB.
Maybe you can provide some citations so we can discuss this with some clarity?
posted by hippybear at 7:34 PM on May 20, 2023 [12 favorites]
MetaFilter: the noisiest, dirtiest, most arrhythmic jam possible.
posted by wenestvedt at 8:06 PM on May 20, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by wenestvedt at 8:06 PM on May 20, 2023 [5 favorites]
But if you just see the right three minutes you’ll totally get it.
posted by bondcliff at 8:16 PM on May 20, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by bondcliff at 8:16 PM on May 20, 2023 [5 favorites]
MetaFilter: Really stupid invalid reasons
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:42 PM on May 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:42 PM on May 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
Maybe you can provide some citations so we can discuss this with some clarity?
That's referring to the text of the post, not anyone commenting here:
"Most of the time, though, if someone tells you they don’t like Dave Matthews, they’re really voicing a deep tribal aversion to the type of person they picture when they picture a Dave Matthews fan—spiritually incurious trustafarians, pumpkin-spice basics, fleece-vest IPA bros, or whichever straw-man stereotype offends their imagination most."
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:47 PM on May 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
That's referring to the text of the post, not anyone commenting here:
"Most of the time, though, if someone tells you they don’t like Dave Matthews, they’re really voicing a deep tribal aversion to the type of person they picture when they picture a Dave Matthews fan—spiritually incurious trustafarians, pumpkin-spice basics, fleece-vest IPA bros, or whichever straw-man stereotype offends their imagination most."
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:47 PM on May 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
Winter 93-94. I was living in Northampton, MA, working as a dishwasher at the brewery, and a banquet waiter at this big place called the Depot/Spaghetti Freddie's back then, in the old train station. My flat mates were both into Phish and the Dead and all sorts of that jam band thing, that I then, and maybe still now hated and mocked. I was into Dinosaur Jr and Jawbreaker and Nomeansno and punk, or post punk or pre indie or alt rock or whatever you want to call it. One night I finish a day shift at the brewery and I get back to the apartment (smack dab on main street across from town hall, I loved that place) and they are all super PUMPED UP. Col. Bruce Hampton and the Aquarium Rescue Unit were playing that night at the Bay State or Pearl St. I can't remember which.
This show, they assured me, would be the thing that unlocked my mind to the whole jam band thing. They would buy my 5$ ticket, they said. No thanks, I said. They'd buy me a beer. No dice. Two beers. Okay I'm in.
We get the the show and the opening band is setting up. I remember thinking "that is a lot of gear and a lot of instruments on the fairly small stage, how is everyone going to fit?"
Then someone on stage starts whacking on a mic stand, steady beats, and after a few seconds the band gets on stage and they break into Ants Marching.
The place went nuts. I had never heard anything like it, and from the reaction of almost everyone else, neither had they. Everyone started dancing, even me. And back then I hated dancing. The horns and strings and precise playing, they rocked the house. They were touring on a five song cassette EP called, i think, remember two things. I bought one. Lots of people bought one. My smug punk 22 year old poser ass had been handed to me. I barely remember the main act.
By the time all three of us went back to the Vineyard for summer 94 the album had come out and the songs were everywhere. I never caught another DMB show, and I'm not a huge fan, but i consider myself lucky that my musical horizon got bigger that night. Happened again when I moved to NYC and discovered WBGO and just listened to jazz for hours on end.
EPILOUGUE: Sometime around 2010 I was working as a dogwalker in lower Manhattan and I walked Dave Matthews dog a couple of times, and met him at least once. I told him a short version of the above, how he blew my mind. He said he remembered the tour but not the gig. He was extremely attractive. Cute and fit and magnetic. I can not remember the name of the dog. It was a labradoodle, though.
posted by vrakatar at 8:54 PM on May 20, 2023 [24 favorites]
This show, they assured me, would be the thing that unlocked my mind to the whole jam band thing. They would buy my 5$ ticket, they said. No thanks, I said. They'd buy me a beer. No dice. Two beers. Okay I'm in.
We get the the show and the opening band is setting up. I remember thinking "that is a lot of gear and a lot of instruments on the fairly small stage, how is everyone going to fit?"
Then someone on stage starts whacking on a mic stand, steady beats, and after a few seconds the band gets on stage and they break into Ants Marching.
The place went nuts. I had never heard anything like it, and from the reaction of almost everyone else, neither had they. Everyone started dancing, even me. And back then I hated dancing. The horns and strings and precise playing, they rocked the house. They were touring on a five song cassette EP called, i think, remember two things. I bought one. Lots of people bought one. My smug punk 22 year old poser ass had been handed to me. I barely remember the main act.
By the time all three of us went back to the Vineyard for summer 94 the album had come out and the songs were everywhere. I never caught another DMB show, and I'm not a huge fan, but i consider myself lucky that my musical horizon got bigger that night. Happened again when I moved to NYC and discovered WBGO and just listened to jazz for hours on end.
EPILOUGUE: Sometime around 2010 I was working as a dogwalker in lower Manhattan and I walked Dave Matthews dog a couple of times, and met him at least once. I told him a short version of the above, how he blew my mind. He said he remembered the tour but not the gig. He was extremely attractive. Cute and fit and magnetic. I can not remember the name of the dog. It was a labradoodle, though.
posted by vrakatar at 8:54 PM on May 20, 2023 [24 favorites]
I didn't have a strong opinion on DMB, although once I started sampling their greatest hits after seeing this FPP, I ended up recognizing "Ants Marching" as the song that I seemed to hear about once a week on the jukebox at my favorite neighborhood dive bar during part of the aughts--the selections by whoever was feeding that jukebox quarters seemed to favor bands from the previous decade, and either all the jukebox feeders had very similar tastes, or they all had that one particular song that they had to hear just about every time they were there, especially once they started to get tight.
So, I wasn't particularly fond of that song by the time I stopped going there, but I wouldn't say that I capital-H hated it. I tend to think that people who were really hard-core haters of a particular band don't just dislike the band's music but really, really think that people should really be listening to their favorite band(s) or genre(s), and tend to blame their scapegoat for such bands or genres not being popular. That certainly seemed to be the case with Rolling Stone's legendary hatred of Billy Joel that flourished at the same time that they were insisting that power pop would save the world, even though Joel was a far superior songwriter to almost every power pop purveyor except--possibly--for Nick Lowe.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:59 PM on May 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
So, I wasn't particularly fond of that song by the time I stopped going there, but I wouldn't say that I capital-H hated it. I tend to think that people who were really hard-core haters of a particular band don't just dislike the band's music but really, really think that people should really be listening to their favorite band(s) or genre(s), and tend to blame their scapegoat for such bands or genres not being popular. That certainly seemed to be the case with Rolling Stone's legendary hatred of Billy Joel that flourished at the same time that they were insisting that power pop would save the world, even though Joel was a far superior songwriter to almost every power pop purveyor except--possibly--for Nick Lowe.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:59 PM on May 20, 2023 [1 favorite]
Dave Matthews fucked up my toenail. I was a stagehand for years (Local 251) and loaded in Dave Matthews during his first arena tour. He had bought the Dead's PA, with speaker cabinets that filled the back of the semi trailer, literally filled it. It was someone's idea of efficiency. "Let's pack as much speaker into the back of a semi as we can! Somebody else will get them out!" There was room enough to squeeze our fingers between the edge of the cabinet and the side of the trailer, and then we'd have to walk that cabinet carefully to the tailgate and maneuver it onto the forks of the forklift. I managed to maneuver one cabinet over my big toe. Ouch. I eventually lost my toenail and ever since, for over 25 YEARS, my toenail was gnarled and misshapened. It only started to grow in like a normal big toenail last year. Last year! I called it my "Dave Matthews Toe."
His music is OK, he has some songs I like, his crew was awesome and competent but here, let me show you my toe ....
posted by Floydd at 9:10 PM on May 20, 2023 [38 favorites]
His music is OK, he has some songs I like, his crew was awesome and competent but here, let me show you my toe ....
posted by Floydd at 9:10 PM on May 20, 2023 [38 favorites]
I graduated from the University of Virginia in the early 90s, back when DMB was basically the house band at Trax in Charlottesville. (And Phish swung through quite often too). I’m meh on them musically, but man does that first album teleport me back to one of the happiest and most carefree times of my life, even if I didn’t fully appreciate it in the moment.
posted by gottabefunky at 9:25 PM on May 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by gottabefunky at 9:25 PM on May 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
DAVE MATTHEWS TRIED TO KILL YOU WITH A FORKLIFT!
posted by vrakatar at 9:42 PM on May 20, 2023 [17 favorites]
posted by vrakatar at 9:42 PM on May 20, 2023 [17 favorites]
I think DMB suffered from being adjacent to bad experiences that have nothing to do with the music.
For me it was a twelve hour road trip where the friends controlling the car stereo only played DMB, and when they ran out of studio albums, they started in on the bootlegs.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 11:29 PM on May 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
For me it was a twelve hour road trip where the friends controlling the car stereo only played DMB, and when they ran out of studio albums, they started in on the bootlegs.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 11:29 PM on May 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
Why Guitar Players HATE Dave Matthews (Youtube. NB: he doesn't hate Dave Matthews. very interesting!)
posted by taz at 1:11 AM on May 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by taz at 1:11 AM on May 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
I mean the ratio of "i don't like this band" posts vs "UGH JUST LET PEOPLE ENJOY THINGS UGGGGHH" "HATING THINGS IS NOT A PERSONALITY" comments is like... one to twenty? There was literally one negative comment before the first time "your favourite band sucks" got busted out!
Anyway in the UK we simply do not know what this is
posted by ominous_paws at 2:08 AM on May 21, 2023 [8 favorites]
Anyway in the UK we simply do not know what this is
posted by ominous_paws at 2:08 AM on May 21, 2023 [8 favorites]
I once saw DMB described as "the only jam band that doesn't jam". It simultaneously perfectly describes the band and is totally wrong. Yet a friend of mine who is way into the jam band scene absolutely loves DMB. A local DMB cover band draws huge crowds. The moral of the story? Enjoy what you enjoy, ignore the labels placed by others.
posted by tommasz at 4:31 AM on May 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by tommasz at 4:31 AM on May 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Too many notes.
posted by Devils Rancher at 5:33 AM on May 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Devils Rancher at 5:33 AM on May 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Look man, I don't really have time or energy to hate Dave Matthews, or his fans. I am too busy hating Billy Joel.
Yeah, Billy Joel's been a hard "NO!" after the way he treated Doug Stegmeyer,
But that's only a thousandth of how much I hate Mike Gordon for making it impossible to see Phish anymore without thinking about Mike Gordon. He knows what he did.
For me it was a twelve hour road trip where the friends controlling the car stereo only played DMB, and when they ran out of studio albums, they started in on the bootlegs.
See, they did it the wrong way. starting with bootlegs, that's 3 hours/show or only 4 shows per 12 hour ride. (Of course, I'd be breaking that up with one or two Dead Shows and some JGB shows, too.
posted by mikelieman at 5:35 AM on May 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
Yeah, Billy Joel's been a hard "NO!" after the way he treated Doug Stegmeyer,
But that's only a thousandth of how much I hate Mike Gordon for making it impossible to see Phish anymore without thinking about Mike Gordon. He knows what he did.
For me it was a twelve hour road trip where the friends controlling the car stereo only played DMB, and when they ran out of studio albums, they started in on the bootlegs.
See, they did it the wrong way. starting with bootlegs, that's 3 hours/show or only 4 shows per 12 hour ride. (Of course, I'd be breaking that up with one or two Dead Shows and some JGB shows, too.
posted by mikelieman at 5:35 AM on May 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
hippybear: And yet I saw them open for U2 on their 360 tour and it was the first time I'd ever been in a crowd of ninety-thousand people all jumping up and down at the same time to a song. Which was AMAZING!
I’m going to co-sign your statement on Black-Eyed Peas. ‘99 or 2000, we received a copy of the Request Line single at our college radio station and practically wore it out, with the hook being used for a bumper for years after we graduated. A love letter to hip hop with Macy Grey on backing vocals, still holds up to this day.
posted by dr_dank at 5:53 AM on May 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
I’m going to co-sign your statement on Black-Eyed Peas. ‘99 or 2000, we received a copy of the Request Line single at our college radio station and practically wore it out, with the hook being used for a bumper for years after we graduated. A love letter to hip hop with Macy Grey on backing vocals, still holds up to this day.
posted by dr_dank at 5:53 AM on May 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
The beans are local, from a shop he loves, where his favorite barista never serves him a to-go latte without first adding a little latte-art penis on top of the foam. “Which makes me feel pretty special,” Matthews says with a grin.
Boy, some people really can't take a hint, can they?
posted by Paul Slade at 6:04 AM on May 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
Boy, some people really can't take a hint, can they?
posted by Paul Slade at 6:04 AM on May 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
I like DMB in that it's... fine? I have no strong opinion one way or another, it's inoffensive enough that I can have it playing loud-ish outside without the neighbors complaining, and it's perfect when I just want something I can ignore.
posted by xedrik at 6:51 AM on May 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by xedrik at 6:51 AM on May 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
Because of course nobody could dislike a band because they make cheesy schlock.
Yeah. Hate every sentiment, lyric, sound of DMB. Shrug.
posted by tiny frying pan at 7:17 AM on May 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Yeah. Hate every sentiment, lyric, sound of DMB. Shrug.
posted by tiny frying pan at 7:17 AM on May 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Count me in the passively disliking DMB camp.
I generally think he’s a talented musician and bandleader who has worked with a similarly talented band, even if I don’t enjoy that kind of Weather Channel/gorpcore style of music. Any goodwill I have towards them vaporizes as soon as Dave opens his mouth. The combination of his billy goat bray and his revolting, lovingly detailed sexual fantasies is revolting. I don’t need to know what makes some unwashed middle-aged man hard, thanks!
posted by pxe2000 at 7:27 AM on May 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
I generally think he’s a talented musician and bandleader who has worked with a similarly talented band, even if I don’t enjoy that kind of Weather Channel/gorpcore style of music. Any goodwill I have towards them vaporizes as soon as Dave opens his mouth. The combination of his billy goat bray and his revolting, lovingly detailed sexual fantasies is revolting. I don’t need to know what makes some unwashed middle-aged man hard, thanks!
posted by pxe2000 at 7:27 AM on May 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
> Counterpoint: let people enjoy hating things in a really low-stakes way!Nah man, I'm too old for that now. Hate Ticketmaster? Definitely. But I ain't gonna waste my hate on musicians like DMB or Dave. Only musicians I can be bothered to hate are bigots like Kid Rock, Travis Tritt, and perennial asshole Ted Nugent.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 8:24 AM on May 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
I have never listened to a full DMB song. I did learn a few years ago that that bumper music on the radio, which I had heard a million times, was Ants Marching…
But, years ago his girls played indoor soccer at the same facility as I did. Waiting for our game to start, the kids program was still going on. A guy was standing at the wall watching. I was standing next to him. My teammates started showing up, and one said, “wow, that’s Dave Matthews!”
posted by Windopaene at 9:02 AM on May 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
But, years ago his girls played indoor soccer at the same facility as I did. Waiting for our game to start, the kids program was still going on. A guy was standing at the wall watching. I was standing next to him. My teammates started showing up, and one said, “wow, that’s Dave Matthews!”
posted by Windopaene at 9:02 AM on May 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
There are two other things that feed into my dislike of Dave Matthews.
The first is that he influenced a generation of male singer/songwriters that I actively dislike. Off the top of my head, John Mayer, Jason Mraz, Jack Johnson, Matt Nathanson, the guy from Train, and Ed Sheeran have all cited him as an influence. This is a bunch of dudes who have cornered the market on the kind of sexually charged poetry a Nice Guy gives to his favorite barista before being banned from the coffee shop and complaining online that women only want to date bad boys. Far from feeling safe (or however Samantha Irby put it in the article), I feel skeevy listening to DMB or any of these guys, especially since they center their vocals in the mix and have a close-miced singing style so that we know every nuance of their sexual fantasies.
The other issue for me is the way DMB (I refuse to call him “Dave”) has been sort of accepted by outlets like Pitchfork and has been lauded by tastemakers like Greta Gerwig and Ryley Walker. I think of the millions of dollars DMB has made, the millions of albums sold, the millions of tickets purchased at amphitheaters, and so on, and I look at these critical reappraisals DMB have gotten… and then I think about the artists who never got AN appraisal in the first place, and it reminds me of this classic moment from Mad Men. Beverly Glenn-Copeland has released work that could be as influential to a generation of singer/songwriters, but the fact that his family had to do a GoFundMe for his housing while Dave Matthews’ favorite barista draws dicks in the foam of his latte is really disappointing.
posted by pxe2000 at 10:31 AM on May 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
The first is that he influenced a generation of male singer/songwriters that I actively dislike. Off the top of my head, John Mayer, Jason Mraz, Jack Johnson, Matt Nathanson, the guy from Train, and Ed Sheeran have all cited him as an influence. This is a bunch of dudes who have cornered the market on the kind of sexually charged poetry a Nice Guy gives to his favorite barista before being banned from the coffee shop and complaining online that women only want to date bad boys. Far from feeling safe (or however Samantha Irby put it in the article), I feel skeevy listening to DMB or any of these guys, especially since they center their vocals in the mix and have a close-miced singing style so that we know every nuance of their sexual fantasies.
The other issue for me is the way DMB (I refuse to call him “Dave”) has been sort of accepted by outlets like Pitchfork and has been lauded by tastemakers like Greta Gerwig and Ryley Walker. I think of the millions of dollars DMB has made, the millions of albums sold, the millions of tickets purchased at amphitheaters, and so on, and I look at these critical reappraisals DMB have gotten… and then I think about the artists who never got AN appraisal in the first place, and it reminds me of this classic moment from Mad Men. Beverly Glenn-Copeland has released work that could be as influential to a generation of singer/songwriters, but the fact that his family had to do a GoFundMe for his housing while Dave Matthews’ favorite barista draws dicks in the foam of his latte is really disappointing.
posted by pxe2000 at 10:31 AM on May 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
"Don't Drink The Water" is a masterpiece. I will fight you.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:32 AM on May 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:32 AM on May 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
Marc Maron on the Trepidation of the Dave Matthews Fan
posted by Saxon Kane at 10:45 AM on May 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Saxon Kane at 10:45 AM on May 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
MetaFilter: The kind of sexually charged poetry a Nice Guy gives to his favorite barista before being banned from the coffee shop
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:29 AM on May 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:29 AM on May 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
Glad to see the "Your favorite band sucks" commenting is still alive and well here on MetaFilter! 24 years and still going!
On an article literally about why people might or might not like that particular band. How could it be that people don't universally agree with the position of an article? Is that even allowed on Mefi?????
posted by praemunire at 12:46 PM on May 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
On an article literally about why people might or might not like that particular band. How could it be that people don't universally agree with the position of an article? Is that even allowed on Mefi?????
posted by praemunire at 12:46 PM on May 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
I mean, the comment in question was "Sorry, no, they suck." followed by an extension about how other people doing their songs is better.
I mean, the article itself is a profile about a man, and isn't an exploration about the fandom toward this band except tangentially.
Try showing up in a Taylor Swift thread posting the fifth comment with your text starting off "Sorry, no, they suck".
This thread is mostly about people being ambivalent toward the band, but that comment so early and so tersely stated really stands out.
posted by hippybear at 12:54 PM on May 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
I mean, the article itself is a profile about a man, and isn't an exploration about the fandom toward this band except tangentially.
Try showing up in a Taylor Swift thread posting the fifth comment with your text starting off "Sorry, no, they suck".
This thread is mostly about people being ambivalent toward the band, but that comment so early and so tersely stated really stands out.
posted by hippybear at 12:54 PM on May 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
So I just went to my 25th college reunion, and at some point the dorm that hosted our class was deserted, the common room still had the big and shiny balloon arch with our class year on it, the corridor walls were papered with our first year photos, and somewhere 'Crash Into You' was playing.
It was definitely the music for that moment. And I thought god I don't really miss that but I miss the days it came with.
posted by of strange foe at 12:56 PM on May 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
It was definitely the music for that moment. And I thought god I don't really miss that but I miss the days it came with.
posted by of strange foe at 12:56 PM on May 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
I will pass no judgment on The DMB or its fans but I will say that one of the largest, bloodiest, all-out brawls at a concert (where I, a veteran attendee of two decades worth of often violent hardcore, punk, and heavy metal shows at that point) was in genuine fear for my and my date's physical safety was at an outdoor DMB concert in Hartford, Connecticut during the late aughties. DMB fans go HARD when they start to throw down.
posted by KingEdRa at 1:25 PM on May 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by KingEdRa at 1:25 PM on May 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
"Don't Drink The Water" is a masterpiece. I will fight you.
Co-signed!
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:28 PM on May 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
Co-signed!
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:28 PM on May 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
I refuse to call him “Dave”
But…that’s his name. DMB is short for Dave Matthews Band and Dave Matthews is the guy being profiled.
Go ahead and resent the band for having opportunities that other bands did not and take a stand on disliking the content of their music but refusing to call a person by their name is a bit much. It’s not like he’s calling himself something cringe like “Kid Rock.”
Anyway, I enjoyed the record and hope the other DMB fans did as well.
posted by kimberussell at 3:37 PM on May 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
But…that’s his name. DMB is short for Dave Matthews Band and Dave Matthews is the guy being profiled.
Go ahead and resent the band for having opportunities that other bands did not and take a stand on disliking the content of their music but refusing to call a person by their name is a bit much. It’s not like he’s calling himself something cringe like “Kid Rock.”
Anyway, I enjoyed the record and hope the other DMB fans did as well.
posted by kimberussell at 3:37 PM on May 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
For you, the day I told you DMB sucks was the most important day in your life, but for me? It was Tuesday.
posted by badbobbycase at 4:19 PM on May 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by badbobbycase at 4:19 PM on May 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
DMB was the first band I tried to see a lot — I saw them 4 times through high school and that was so much for me at the time! They had hits but weren’t really big in my school, so the fandom felt special. And of course my friends and I were going to see them alongside a bunch of college kids smokin dope so it all had an air of the adult about it, you know?
The band gave me an early taste of a kind of live experience that I hadn’t had before but now treasure so much: the jam, I guess, but really the more general experience of extended instrumental breaks, interesting instrumentation, and cats wildin out on stage with their instruments. I can trace my current love of dance music back to those shows, beginning to learn a more embodied and collective experience.
—
Definitely agree that the problems in this thread are around how negativity about the band has been expressed a couple times. A drive by comment calling them bad or mediocre invites no discussion, except among those who also think they suck (“yeah right? Ugh I hate the way they x, and y is so cringe” “yeah!”). In general that kind of bonding is imo neutral, but in mixed company here it just reads like an intentional fart in the room.
I’m very interested in understanding the ambivalence around the band, and even the hatred. “Too bad they suck” is you telling me you’re not at all interested in my perspective or experience, which feels shitty in a community forum like metafilter, especially if I’m coming into this thread with an open mind.
posted by wemayfreeze at 6:20 PM on May 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
The band gave me an early taste of a kind of live experience that I hadn’t had before but now treasure so much: the jam, I guess, but really the more general experience of extended instrumental breaks, interesting instrumentation, and cats wildin out on stage with their instruments. I can trace my current love of dance music back to those shows, beginning to learn a more embodied and collective experience.
—
Definitely agree that the problems in this thread are around how negativity about the band has been expressed a couple times. A drive by comment calling them bad or mediocre invites no discussion, except among those who also think they suck (“yeah right? Ugh I hate the way they x, and y is so cringe” “yeah!”). In general that kind of bonding is imo neutral, but in mixed company here it just reads like an intentional fart in the room.
I’m very interested in understanding the ambivalence around the band, and even the hatred. “Too bad they suck” is you telling me you’re not at all interested in my perspective or experience, which feels shitty in a community forum like metafilter, especially if I’m coming into this thread with an open mind.
posted by wemayfreeze at 6:20 PM on May 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Dave Matthews Toe
...is my new sockpuppet name.
posted by Greg_Ace at 6:40 PM on May 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
...is my new sockpuppet name.
posted by Greg_Ace at 6:40 PM on May 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
I respect Dave Matthews as a person and DMB as a band... but also dislike them intensely. I have nothing against the fans but I am also delighted when I find out a new acquaintance or old friend shares my sentiments. It's like a magical bond for members of both camps!! Those who are neutral or don't know are blessed by ignorance but also missing out.
Again, nothing against the fans -- y'all are great -- but yeah too many negative associations based on people and places for me to ever want to get over my pettiness. I have my reasons and they are valid just as the fans have their valid reasons, too. Life is short and I'm going to enjoy this ride!
posted by smorgasbord at 6:43 PM on May 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
Again, nothing against the fans -- y'all are great -- but yeah too many negative associations based on people and places for me to ever want to get over my pettiness. I have my reasons and they are valid just as the fans have their valid reasons, too. Life is short and I'm going to enjoy this ride!
posted by smorgasbord at 6:43 PM on May 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
I want to address this question, which is a great point: "I’m very interested in understanding the ambivalence around the band, and even the hatred. 'Too bad they suck' is you telling me you’re not at all interested in my perspective or experience, which feels shitty in a community forum like metafilter, especially if I’m coming into this thread with an open mind."
You could view it from the perspective of fans of rival sports teams. Everyone has their reasons, some serious and some silly. From the outside, it's all ridiculous but also fun. I have students who love to talk about the football or baseball game the night before: they are so passionate and often argumentative! To me it's all entertaining because I love seeing them engage (mostly) respectfully on a topic that is both meaningless in the greater scheme of things and incredibly meaningful in terms of their own lives and identities. It feels nice to belong to something greater than ourselves and feel strongly about something that is low stakes and really isn't going to hurt anyone. I'll take an impassioned Messi versus Ronaldo debate or silly pro-DMB or anti-DMB rant any day versus a bitter, personal, painful political discussion or what have you!
posted by smorgasbord at 7:23 PM on May 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
You could view it from the perspective of fans of rival sports teams. Everyone has their reasons, some serious and some silly. From the outside, it's all ridiculous but also fun. I have students who love to talk about the football or baseball game the night before: they are so passionate and often argumentative! To me it's all entertaining because I love seeing them engage (mostly) respectfully on a topic that is both meaningless in the greater scheme of things and incredibly meaningful in terms of their own lives and identities. It feels nice to belong to something greater than ourselves and feel strongly about something that is low stakes and really isn't going to hurt anyone. I'll take an impassioned Messi versus Ronaldo debate or silly pro-DMB or anti-DMB rant any day versus a bitter, personal, painful political discussion or what have you!
posted by smorgasbord at 7:23 PM on May 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
(Likewise, I've never ever had anyone tell me I should die because I don't like DMB. Conversely, I frequently had plenty of people tell me that I should kill myself simply because I was a teacher in support of continued masking back in early 2022. Therefore, I say bring on this friendly debate here!)
posted by smorgasbord at 7:29 PM on May 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by smorgasbord at 7:29 PM on May 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
I admit that I got to hippybear's first comment up top and scrolled straight down to post this. I promise to go back and read the thread AND the article.
The first and only time I've seen DMB so far was the ‘96 HORDE tour. It was the Mud Island show. I was pregnant with my son but didn't know it yet, and it was Memphis summer HOT. The lineup at that show was pretty darn great - Rusted Root, Lenny Kravitz, Blues Traveler, and Dave Matthews Band. There was a LOT of dancing that day.
I say "so far" because my Mom got tickets for herself, my husband, and me to go to see them live again this coming Tuesday evening. My Dad died back in early December, and we just had his memorial party this past Friday night. The timing is actually great. Dad was, among other things, a musician, and he liked DMB tunes okay enough. Going to music events was a frequent family thing. She wanted to treat us to something fun and maybe even a little adventurous after all the planning and stressful stuff. It might be important to note that I'm an only child and none of us have been churchgoers. So, it was mostly me and my Mom just figuring it out. The memorial and all attached events went very well, thank goodness. Otherwise, getting these tickets might've been a poor decision.
None of us have been to see any live music in ages, and now I'm a grandma thanks to the son I danced with unbeknownst the last time. I feel pretty confident that nothing is going to get out of hand at a DMB show. Told Mom that a lot of folks there may be kinda blissed on some edibles (She may have been a little disappointed at a zero chance of a second-hand buzz.), and besides, whatever, we've got lawn seats. It's not like a mosh pit situation. We'll probably show up a little late because I am not going to stand in line for anyone, and we might leave a little early if we get too tired. In the middle, I'm going to sit on a blanket under the sky, maybe dance a little if moved to do so, and definitely think some more about my Dad.
posted by lilywing13 at 7:57 PM on May 21, 2023 [12 favorites]
The first and only time I've seen DMB so far was the ‘96 HORDE tour. It was the Mud Island show. I was pregnant with my son but didn't know it yet, and it was Memphis summer HOT. The lineup at that show was pretty darn great - Rusted Root, Lenny Kravitz, Blues Traveler, and Dave Matthews Band. There was a LOT of dancing that day.
I say "so far" because my Mom got tickets for herself, my husband, and me to go to see them live again this coming Tuesday evening. My Dad died back in early December, and we just had his memorial party this past Friday night. The timing is actually great. Dad was, among other things, a musician, and he liked DMB tunes okay enough. Going to music events was a frequent family thing. She wanted to treat us to something fun and maybe even a little adventurous after all the planning and stressful stuff. It might be important to note that I'm an only child and none of us have been churchgoers. So, it was mostly me and my Mom just figuring it out. The memorial and all attached events went very well, thank goodness. Otherwise, getting these tickets might've been a poor decision.
None of us have been to see any live music in ages, and now I'm a grandma thanks to the son I danced with unbeknownst the last time. I feel pretty confident that nothing is going to get out of hand at a DMB show. Told Mom that a lot of folks there may be kinda blissed on some edibles (She may have been a little disappointed at a zero chance of a second-hand buzz.), and besides, whatever, we've got lawn seats. It's not like a mosh pit situation. We'll probably show up a little late because I am not going to stand in line for anyone, and we might leave a little early if we get too tired. In the middle, I'm going to sit on a blanket under the sky, maybe dance a little if moved to do so, and definitely think some more about my Dad.
posted by lilywing13 at 7:57 PM on May 21, 2023 [12 favorites]
"Don't Drink The Water" is a masterpiece. I will fight you.
That whole album slaps!
I stopped listening to them last century, liked them enough to see them live a handful of times, but the one song that I always loathed, from the moment I first heard it, was Ants Marching. I never got the hype!
posted by avocet at 7:58 PM on May 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
That whole album slaps!
I stopped listening to them last century, liked them enough to see them live a handful of times, but the one song that I always loathed, from the moment I first heard it, was Ants Marching. I never got the hype!
posted by avocet at 7:58 PM on May 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
There are a few exceptions, but the general rule in rock music is that you can have all the trappings of success - money, fans, fame etc - OR you can have the hip credibility that brings praise and respect from critics and music snobs like me. What you can't have is both - and, frankly, it's greedy even to ask.
posted by Paul Slade at 12:04 AM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Paul Slade at 12:04 AM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
I wanted to respond to wemayfreeze’s question:
To start off on a positive note: The music itself is very good. Matthews is a capable guitarist and a good bandleader, and he writes good melodies and arranges them to showcase the strengths of his band. The members of his band are very talented and they work well together as a group. The production is straightforward and non-obtrusive, and the jams/instrumental passages in his songs have a pleasantly evocative quality that sound like a film score. If his music was instrumental, I would have more respect for it.
His music is not instrumental, which is where the problem is for me.
I’ve spent some quality time in this thread snarking on his lyrical style, but I wanted to unpack why his lyrics bother me so much. At his worst, he writes a lot about sex that doesn’t seem entirely consensual—there are the gross fuckboy lines in “Crash Into Me,” but there’s also ”Dreamgirl”, which starts with the line “I was feeling like a creep.” Even on something like ”Shake Me Like a Monkey”, he vacillates between this meathead humor and attempts at poetry and the, uh, anatomically improbable detail of what he wants to do (“which axis do you rotate the woman?”). For someone who’s had sex at least three times, he seems to not know how sex works, and that combined with his poetastery and the consent issues in his lyrics makes this sound like the guy who complains that women are bitches who only want to date bad boys.
Compounding all of this is his vocal style and the way his album is produced. Matthews has a braying vocal style that sounds like he really wants the listener to luxuriate in every last syllable, and the production puts his voice front and center so we can hear everything he says. There’s no attempt to put his vocals lower in the mix or obscure what he’s saying, so if you’re listening, you’re not only hearing the music, but you’re really taking in the bad sex poetry as well.
If DMB was an all-instrumental band or if Matthews was a de facto bandleader who fielded the vocal and lyric-writing responsibilities to someone else, I would have more respect for him. Unfortunately, yucky sexual fantasies put to well-made music is the DMB experience, and because a new cohort of music critics really want to reevaluate him as a serious artist, people like me have to push back.
posted by pxe2000 at 2:52 AM on May 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
I’m very interested in understanding the ambivalence around the band, and even the hatred.… and after I read it I listened to parts of Crash on YouTube. I attempted to keep an open mind and not think of all the things outside the music that make me dislike DMB.
To start off on a positive note: The music itself is very good. Matthews is a capable guitarist and a good bandleader, and he writes good melodies and arranges them to showcase the strengths of his band. The members of his band are very talented and they work well together as a group. The production is straightforward and non-obtrusive, and the jams/instrumental passages in his songs have a pleasantly evocative quality that sound like a film score. If his music was instrumental, I would have more respect for it.
His music is not instrumental, which is where the problem is for me.
I’ve spent some quality time in this thread snarking on his lyrical style, but I wanted to unpack why his lyrics bother me so much. At his worst, he writes a lot about sex that doesn’t seem entirely consensual—there are the gross fuckboy lines in “Crash Into Me,” but there’s also ”Dreamgirl”, which starts with the line “I was feeling like a creep.” Even on something like ”Shake Me Like a Monkey”, he vacillates between this meathead humor and attempts at poetry and the, uh, anatomically improbable detail of what he wants to do (“which axis do you rotate the woman?”). For someone who’s had sex at least three times, he seems to not know how sex works, and that combined with his poetastery and the consent issues in his lyrics makes this sound like the guy who complains that women are bitches who only want to date bad boys.
Compounding all of this is his vocal style and the way his album is produced. Matthews has a braying vocal style that sounds like he really wants the listener to luxuriate in every last syllable, and the production puts his voice front and center so we can hear everything he says. There’s no attempt to put his vocals lower in the mix or obscure what he’s saying, so if you’re listening, you’re not only hearing the music, but you’re really taking in the bad sex poetry as well.
If DMB was an all-instrumental band or if Matthews was a de facto bandleader who fielded the vocal and lyric-writing responsibilities to someone else, I would have more respect for him. Unfortunately, yucky sexual fantasies put to well-made music is the DMB experience, and because a new cohort of music critics really want to reevaluate him as a serious artist, people like me have to push back.
posted by pxe2000 at 2:52 AM on May 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
the, uh, anatomically improbable detail of what he wants to do
....Are you talking about "I'd rather be licking you from your back to your belly"? Because, honey, if you can't figure out how that's "anatomically improbable", I don't know what to tell you.
And as for "Dreamgirl" - here's the FULL passage you're talking about:
"I was feeling like a creep
As I watched you asleep
Face down in the grass in the park
In the middle of a hot afternoon
Your top was untied and I thought how nice
It'll be to follow the sweat down your spine"
In the context of the rest of the song, he's talking about someone he's clearly in a relationship with. And he's talking about watching her taking a nap and thinking about how much he desires her and how much he WANTS to do something to her, but....it never says he does.
So - what's "nonconsensual" about a dude really wanting to touch his sleeping girlfriend because he's attracted to her, but ultimately just letting her sleep?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:32 AM on May 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
....Are you talking about "I'd rather be licking you from your back to your belly"? Because, honey, if you can't figure out how that's "anatomically improbable", I don't know what to tell you.
And as for "Dreamgirl" - here's the FULL passage you're talking about:
"I was feeling like a creep
As I watched you asleep
Face down in the grass in the park
In the middle of a hot afternoon
Your top was untied and I thought how nice
It'll be to follow the sweat down your spine"
In the context of the rest of the song, he's talking about someone he's clearly in a relationship with. And he's talking about watching her taking a nap and thinking about how much he desires her and how much he WANTS to do something to her, but....it never says he does.
So - what's "nonconsensual" about a dude really wanting to touch his sleeping girlfriend because he's attracted to her, but ultimately just letting her sleep?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:32 AM on May 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
First of all, don’t call me honey. I don’t know you.
Second, I don’t care how badly he wants to fuck his girlfriend. Men need to keep those kinds of fantasies between themselves and their significant others, not themselves, their significant others, and several million other people.
posted by pxe2000 at 3:37 AM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Second, I don’t care how badly he wants to fuck his girlfriend. Men need to keep those kinds of fantasies between themselves and their significant others, not themselves, their significant others, and several million other people.
posted by pxe2000 at 3:37 AM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
I don’t care how badly he wants to fuck his girlfriend. Men need to keep those kinds of fantasies between themselves and their significant others, not themselves, their significant others, and several million other people.
Are you certain he's talking about himself as opposed to making up a fictional scenario about a fictional couple and speaking as if he is that fictional guy talking to his fictional girlfriend alone?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:41 AM on May 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
Are you certain he's talking about himself as opposed to making up a fictional scenario about a fictional couple and speaking as if he is that fictional guy talking to his fictional girlfriend alone?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:41 AM on May 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
Men need to keep those kinds of fantasies between themselves and their significant others, not themselves, their significant others, and several million other people.
It's like you've never listened to the lyrics of any music created from about 1920 forward. The Andrews Sisters' song Mr. Sandman is about wanting someone to get all humpy with.
posted by hippybear at 6:55 AM on May 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
It's like you've never listened to the lyrics of any music created from about 1920 forward. The Andrews Sisters' song Mr. Sandman is about wanting someone to get all humpy with.
posted by hippybear at 6:55 AM on May 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
I love "Ants Marching" and "What Would You Say."
The Andrews Sisters' song Mr. Sandman is about wanting someone to get all humpy with.
Not disputing the premise, but regret to inform "Mr. Sandman" was by The Chordettes.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:00 AM on May 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
The Andrews Sisters' song Mr. Sandman is about wanting someone to get all humpy with.
Not disputing the premise, but regret to inform "Mr. Sandman" was by The Chordettes.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:00 AM on May 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
I like plenty of songs that are significantly more sexually explicit, and less enlightened in their sexual attitudes than Dave ever was, but I agree that the sex talk on those early hits is likely part of what established them as an easy target - it’s just a little too much coming from this goofy try-hard white guy poet. It’s even addressed in the article.
posted by atoxyl at 9:21 AM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by atoxyl at 9:21 AM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Besides that they’re just kind of in jam band territory, but without the lingering countercultural credibility so they get it with both barrels.
posted by atoxyl at 9:41 AM on May 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by atoxyl at 9:41 AM on May 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
For those who think DMB's lyrics veer into the creepy and non-consensual, what are your thoughts on "Every Breath You Take"? Melissa Etheridge's "I'm The Only One"? Sarah McLachlan's "Possession" ("and I will be the one, to hold you down, kiss you so hard...")?
I like a lot of DMB's songs, but avoided becoming too much of a fan because I was in college from '92-'96 and there were a lot of DMB-obsessed hacky-sack white frat boys, which made me not want to be too associated with them. But all of the band members are super talented (I don't think Carter Beauford gets nearly enough credit) and the songs are inventive. A couple tracks are still mainstays for me, like the live version of "Stay (Wasting Time)" from the Before These Crowded Streets album.
Like or dislike as you please, but I enjoyed the article. He sounds like a pretty humble guy living his best life.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 10:18 AM on May 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
I like a lot of DMB's songs, but avoided becoming too much of a fan because I was in college from '92-'96 and there were a lot of DMB-obsessed hacky-sack white frat boys, which made me not want to be too associated with them. But all of the band members are super talented (I don't think Carter Beauford gets nearly enough credit) and the songs are inventive. A couple tracks are still mainstays for me, like the live version of "Stay (Wasting Time)" from the Before These Crowded Streets album.
Like or dislike as you please, but I enjoyed the article. He sounds like a pretty humble guy living his best life.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 10:18 AM on May 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
I have no knowledge of him or the people who like him. All I know is his voice acts on my ears like a cheesegrater on a tomato. When DMB was popular current music in the 90s and 00s I almost jabbed holes in my car radio changing stations when those mosquito-whine vocals came on.
posted by Scattercat at 11:31 AM on May 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Scattercat at 11:31 AM on May 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
There's, you know, a story behind "Possession". It's not just a creepy lyric.
posted by kevinbelt at 11:31 AM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by kevinbelt at 11:31 AM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
"Which brings us to one last thing that kind of must be said about Matthews in the ’90s: He sang about sex like someone who’d not only done it but actually enjoyed it, which set him apart from almost everybody on rock radio back then."
posted by kirkaracha at 11:33 AM on May 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 11:33 AM on May 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
There's, you know, a story behind "Possession". It's not just a creepy lyric.
And so it is entirely possible that the same is true of DMB's song "Dreamgirl", is it not?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:35 AM on May 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
And so it is entirely possible that the same is true of DMB's song "Dreamgirl", is it not?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:35 AM on May 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
There's, you know, a story behind "Possession". It's not just a creepy lyric.
Yes, and according to the article, "Crash Into Me" is about a stalker, just like "Possession."
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 11:49 AM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Yes, and according to the article, "Crash Into Me" is about a stalker, just like "Possession."
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 11:49 AM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
DMB's creepy lyrics always sounded to me like depictions of characters (and not characters that he approved of) in the same way that the lyrics from "Don't Drink The Water" depict and critique Imperialism - in contrast to, say, "Sex Type Thing" by Stone Temple Pilots that sounded like a rally cry in favor of sexual assault. In brief, the 90's were an age of contrasts.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:05 PM on May 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:05 PM on May 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
in contrast to, say, "Sex Type Thing" by Stone Temple Pilots that sounded like a rally cry in favor of sexual assault.
Actually, not in contrast to - akin to. Scott Weiland said that was a character as well; he wrote it in response to a female friend getting assaulted by 3 dudes.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:24 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Actually, not in contrast to - akin to. Scott Weiland said that was a character as well; he wrote it in response to a female friend getting assaulted by 3 dudes.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:24 PM on May 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
'Confessions of a Dave Matthews Fan' (Alex Pappademas interviews Samantha Irby for GQ)
posted by box at 3:54 PM on May 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by box at 3:54 PM on May 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
“Possession” isn’t just about a stalker character. The lyrics are from letters that her actual stalker wrote to her. He sued her for plagiarism. It wasn’t a literary exercise that she thought might be interesting.
posted by kevinbelt at 5:29 PM on May 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by kevinbelt at 5:29 PM on May 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
I mean, the article itself is a profile about a man, and isn't an exploration about the fandom toward this band except tangentially.
The paragraph you chose to frame the article is about how the people who don't like the band probably just have weird unrelated issues and aren't even making a musical judgment. If it's okay for you to lead with that, then it's okay for me to say, nope, I don't have weird unrelated issues, they just suck. An appropriate response to condescension is blunt dismissal.
posted by praemunire at 10:02 AM on May 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
The paragraph you chose to frame the article is about how the people who don't like the band probably just have weird unrelated issues and aren't even making a musical judgment. If it's okay for you to lead with that, then it's okay for me to say, nope, I don't have weird unrelated issues, they just suck. An appropriate response to condescension is blunt dismissal.
posted by praemunire at 10:02 AM on May 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
Dave Matthews once complimented the Beastie Boys baseball hat I was wearing.
posted by tristeza at 11:23 AM on May 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by tristeza at 11:23 AM on May 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
that's definitely sus
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:26 AM on May 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:26 AM on May 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
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posted by dismas at 11:32 AM on May 20, 2023 [33 favorites]