Racist Shitstain's Destiny.

July 16, 2023 3:41 PM

Jesse James Comer took exception to a Bungie community manager sharing content by Destiny 2 creator Uhmaayyze. Mr. Comer expressed his ire by engaging in a campaign of "racist, stochastic terrorism" against the campaign manager. Unfortunately for Mr. Comer, Bungie took him to court over his behaviour and won to the tune of $489,435.52. For trolls more generally, it would appear that this case establishes precedents that may well be applied in future cases.
posted by lovelyzoo (25 comments total)

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posted by Artw at 4:01 PM on July 16, 2023 [2 favorites]

Jump to the third link, "racist, stochastic terrorism". That tells the story.

I can only support this decision and hope it also sets precedent that can be expanded beyond the videogame industry.
posted by hippybear at 4:07 PM on July 16, 2023 [8 favorites]

Good. These precedents are sorely needed.
posted by bz at 4:09 PM on July 16, 2023 [2 favorites]

How much of this money is going to the victims of the harassment, and how much is going to compensate the corporation that provided private security to protect their employee?
posted by The Lurkers Support Me in Email at 4:11 PM on July 16, 2023

I think the corporation brought the lawsuit, not the victims.

We actually need laws about this which make it a criminal, not a civil matter. But I don't see those forthcoming anytime soon.
posted by hippybear at 4:13 PM on July 16, 2023 [3 favorites]

WA paralegal Kathryn Tewson has been busy. She also started a fraud lawsuit against DoNotPay, the "self-proclaimed World’s First Robot Lawyer." She was recently interviewed about that case on the LawNext podcast.
posted by bz at 4:22 PM on July 16, 2023 [2 favorites]

This seems like a good outcome, but this part strikes me as incorrect, at least at a terminological level:

the Court has created a path for those with the resources to identify stochastic terrorists and hold them accountable to do exactly that and recover their costs in court."

My understanding of "stochastic terrorism," is a public figure vaguely inciting his (yeah, probably his) supporters to violence. Not directing anyone in particular to perform a particular act, but knowing that someone out there will get the message and act on it. Unless I'm missing something, this is a case of one particular asshole with an axe to grind against someone else, and acting on his own initiative.
posted by adamrice at 4:37 PM on July 16, 2023 [2 favorites]

While it may seem odd to celebrate a judgment that awards a company — rather than an individual — with damages for personal harassment, the significance of the case is that its legal precedent empowers and motivates employers to use their resources to protect employees who face harassment as part of their jobs.

Doesn't seem "odd" to me at all; making it possible for a company to sue for damages & costs (and win) against what is basically a nazi troll means it's going to be expensive to be a nazi troll. And while that may not be as satisfying as punching them, it's probably a more effective deterrent.
posted by chavenet at 4:48 PM on July 16, 2023 [8 favorites]

I find it very unlikely that Comer has 489K.

So, Bungie is going to be out for what they spent on protecting the family, the family will get nothing, and Comer will likely be able to do this again. But, does set a good precedent for future cases.
posted by Windopaene at 4:53 PM on July 16, 2023

the family will get nothing


We don’t know what arrangement or support Bungie has offered to the family, so as the kids say, assumes facts not in evidence.

For the last year, at least, Bungie has been consistently, superbly vocal in their online support of (frequently harassed) non-white, non-male, and LGBTQ+ fans, players and staff. Absolutely clear and no nonsense in their responses to would be bigots about who they support, will always support, and who can escort themselves out the door if they don’t like it.

I’d wondered if this was the Kusk group - Kathryn, Akiva Cohen, et al. Very pleased for the win; very hopeful we see more of this.
posted by Silvery Fish at 5:16 PM on July 16, 2023 [12 favorites]

Yeah, I had the same question as adamrice, above: Is this really "stochastic terrorism"?

I want to be clear that I believe that whether or not it is stochastic terrorism is obviously of very minor importance compared to the rest of it. I am still curious, though: Are there stochastic terrorism-related details that weren't present in the "racist, stochastic terrorism" link? Or did I just miss some from that link? Or do I misunderstand what "stochastic terrorism" means?
posted by Flunkie at 6:01 PM on July 16, 2023

Or do I misunderstand what "stochastic terrorism" means?

“‘the use of mass media to provoke random acts of ideologically motivated violence that are statistically predictable but individually unpredictable'…. Such speech is plausibly related to violent outcomes, and yet falls outside direct forms of incitement.”

From a quick search on the term + “legal” : https://csl.mpg.de/en/projects/philosophical-and-public-security-law-implications-of-stochastic-terrorism#:~:text=As%20described%20by%20leading%20scholars,Columbia%20University%20Press).

I think we’d need to read the original filing to see how the argument was constructed. I’m going to guess that it’s constructed on the premise that the actions of the defendant created situations that could predictably lead to confused and angry altercations, with the potential for immediate or retaliatory violence. My case finding skills aren’t great, but maybe it’s already been posted on RECAP.
posted by Silvery Fish at 6:20 PM on July 16, 2023 [3 favorites]

I assume it’s a different James Comer?
posted by TedW at 6:25 PM on July 16, 2023 [1 favorite]

If anyone is interested in purchasing copies of the filings, you can get them here:

https://dja-prd-ecexap1.kingcounty.gov/?q=node/420/3056598/FV-Public-Case-Documents-Portal
posted by Silvery Fish at 6:35 PM on July 16, 2023

The circumstances are horrible and I'm glad Comer got his comeuppance, but I found this line in the "this case" link from above the fold incongruously funny:

"Comer used Domino’s online order tracking system to confirm that the Does had received his pizza-shaped threat." (emphasis mine)

Not funny and also from the findings:

"D. Doe was so frightened that he needed to take time off and curtail his public interactions with Destiny 2 fans, which interactions were the core of his job (and at which, to be clear, he was an absolute superstar)." (ditto)

Forgive my ignorance, do judges typically write like that? I had the uninformed impression that they had to write fairly stuffy language.

Silvery Fish, I got "page not found" trying to follow your link, but https://dja-prd-ecexap1.kingcounty.gov/?q=node/420/3056598/ seems to be a link to the court case itself. I'm also curious to read the original complaint!
posted by coolname at 7:28 PM on July 16, 2023 [1 favorite]

Silvery Fish, I got "page not found" trying to follow your link,

Well, crap. Ok - try this:

Click on the dead link above.
On the menu bar, click “case search.”
Next page, select Civil Complaint (case type 2)
Type in Last Name (Comer) and First Name (Jesse)
Complete the earnest-but-lacking captcha; click “search”

First option that comes up is the case - 22-2-10761-8 SEA, file date 07/12/2022

You have to create an account and pay for the filing, the original filing is 39 pages, I think it’s typically 10 or 30 cents a page. I’m on mobile and stopped there.

Feel free to share any interesting sections!
posted by Silvery Fish at 7:54 PM on July 16, 2023 [1 favorite]

The Forbes.com link in the main write-up describes the decision as a default judgement.

My knowledge of the law is not all it should be, so I might be missing something, but I would not necessarily assume it sets reliable precedent for future cases that may be contested.
posted by Nerd of the North at 7:57 PM on July 16, 2023 [1 favorite]

Oops, seems like my link was killed dead too, you do have to search for it each time. The cost is $9.75, which is more than my morbid curiosity is worth.
posted by coolname at 8:13 PM on July 16, 2023 [1 favorite]

Forgive my ignorance, do judges typically write like that? I had the uninformed impression that they had to write fairly stuffy language.

When a party files a motion, they typically file a proposed order for the judge. If the judge agrees with the motion entirely, they will just sign it. The order itself says PROPOSED on the front page, so I'm pretty sure the vivid language in the order comes from KUSK (they tend to stylistic choices that other law firms would tone down).
posted by creepygirl at 8:50 PM on July 16, 2023 [3 favorites]

If it's a default judgment, that's because the defendant never showed up in court. I understand he's in another state, and I wish the company and lawfirm luck in making him pay up. But let's be clear: dude is unlikely to have half a million dollars to pay.
posted by suelac at 9:04 PM on July 16, 2023 [1 favorite]

But more broadly speaking, judges can write their opinions any way they like. Sometimes they have a little fun, and rarely, a lot.
posted by ryanrs at 9:16 PM on July 16, 2023 [4 favorites]

Yeah, I'm confused by the notion that this is any sort of test case on prosecuting "stochastic terrorism". AFAICT they got Comer on specific, direct acts of intimidation and harrasment. While he may have been trying (and succeeding, perhaps?) to incite a wider, more diffuse air of violence and harassment, the things for which he was found liable were acts whose throughlines from "Comer's words and actions" to "threat to Bungie employees" were direct and incontrovertible.
posted by jackbishop at 8:55 AM on July 17, 2023 [1 favorite]

Yeah, I'm confused by the notion that this is any sort of test case on prosecuting "stochastic terrorism". AFAICT they got Comer on specific, direct acts of intimidation and harrasment

Which are forms of stochastic terrorism.

The concept of stochastic terrorism is that it's terrorism without a central authority making clear orders - instead, what happens is that an environment is created that a) radicalizes and moves people along the hierarchy of genocide and b) predisposes them to act. NonCompete's video on the PewDiePipeline has a good discussion on how the mechanics of stochastic terrorism work.
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:45 AM on July 17, 2023 [2 favorites]

Hm. Well I guess at this point, "stochastic terrorism" is a new-enough term that there doesn't seem to be one consistent definition. But I had always thought it referred to someone encouraging terrorism against a person or group, in a way that a reasonable person would know would likely result in an attack somewhere, but without actually making specific threats that would be actionable under traditional statutes and precedent.

Sort of to terrorism what "would someone rid me of this meddlesome priest?" is to assassination.
posted by Kadin2048 at 5:37 PM on July 17, 2023 [2 favorites]

But I had always thought it referred to someone encouraging terrorism against a person or group, in a way that a reasonable person would know would likely result in an attack somewhere, but without actually making specific threats that would be actionable under traditional statutes and precedent.

While that is one way to create the environment, it's not the only way to do so. The term's definition is baked into the term itself - it is "terrorism by chance", that acts of terrorism are made more likely by creating an environment where targeted violence is more acceptable. Which is why Comer's acts fall under the term - he wasn't acting on any given orders, but instead acted because committing targeted political violence (and yes, that is exactly his actions were) was made "acceptable" through several ways, most notably the pervasive attitude that online abuse and harassment is the nature of online activity.

This is what Bungie is trying to combat - they are pushing back on this acceptability by holding abusers to account. The problem, sadly (as we saw in the recent utterly ridiculous Counterman ruling, where the Supreme Court basically legalized stalking on First Amendment grounds) is that too many people see this sort of harassment and abuse as acceptable, or at the very least "the cost of doing business" online.
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:54 PM on July 17, 2023 [1 favorite]