Sad, lonely losers or indulging a pleasure
August 14, 2023 2:03 AM Subscribe
Why solo diners are being judged A Michelin restaurant in London charges single diners double, which has led to opinions in The Guardian by Jay Rayner and Megan Nolan.
But others have given thought to the pleasures of dining alone this year, and earlier.
Last night, like many nights before, I ate alone. In public. On purpose. And it was glorious., by Jamie Feldmar at Serious Eats.
On Dining Alone by M.F.K. Fisher (a reprint in The Boston Globe).
Alissa Wilkinson's article on Vox is a whole rabbit warren of interesting links all by itself.
Moreover, that Lucullus took not only pleasure but pride in this way of living, is clear from the anecdotes recorded of him.
Last night, like many nights before, I ate alone. In public. On purpose. And it was glorious., by Jamie Feldmar at Serious Eats.
On Dining Alone by M.F.K. Fisher (a reprint in The Boston Globe).
Alissa Wilkinson's article on Vox is a whole rabbit warren of interesting links all by itself.
Moreover, that Lucullus took not only pleasure but pride in this way of living, is clear from the anecdotes recorded of him.
Also - often, when I am going out to a restaurant, I am usually doing so alone. And it is neither because I am a "sad lonely loser" nor is it because I am a pampered gourmand. It is because I am a person who is hungry and just wanted to fucking eat out, just like any one of the other people in the damn restaurant.
The fact that I am single does not negate my BASIC FUCKING HUMANITY.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:40 AM on August 14, 2023 [102 favorites]
The fact that I am single does not negate my BASIC FUCKING HUMANITY.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:40 AM on August 14, 2023 [102 favorites]
I hear you EmpressCallipygos! I eat out alone far more often than with someone else, but is it going to be yet another thing to feel guilty about? Argh!
posted by JHarris at 3:44 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by JHarris at 3:44 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Fair warning that I may come back in now and again with more to say because I clearly have Thoughts:
From: the article at the first link.
The restaurant’s owner, Victoria Sheppard, argues that they are a small venture with just 34 covers across 11 tables. “We have ever-increasing staff and ingredient costs,” she told me. “Our business would simply not be viable without implementing this policy.”
That sounds like it's a failing of the restaurant's business model, then, if they aren't doing well enough to accommodate the occasional solo diner. Why ask strangers to pay the price for your own poor business decisions?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:49 AM on August 14, 2023 [52 favorites]
From: the article at the first link.
The restaurant’s owner, Victoria Sheppard, argues that they are a small venture with just 34 covers across 11 tables. “We have ever-increasing staff and ingredient costs,” she told me. “Our business would simply not be viable without implementing this policy.”
That sounds like it's a failing of the restaurant's business model, then, if they aren't doing well enough to accommodate the occasional solo diner. Why ask strangers to pay the price for your own poor business decisions?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:49 AM on August 14, 2023 [52 favorites]
Yeah, you figure out how many covers you average a night and price your menu per head accordingly. Just because you could hypothetically have seated a few more, why should solo diners have to pay for it?
posted by rory at 3:55 AM on August 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by rory at 3:55 AM on August 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
My experience is Jamie Feldmar’s in that Serious Eats article. Go to a restaurant on your own, sit at the bar. Look smug as you cut past the folks waiting for a table. Bring a book if you’re aiming to be left alone, or don’t if you’re feeling chatty.
I remember once doing this multi day bike expedition navigating Vancouver Island from south to north then back. Once I returned to the city of Vancouver, I slept for ten hours then went out for breakfast. I sat myself at the counter for this brunch place where I ordered their fricassee, a hearty hash with poached eggs, beef short ribs, and caramelized onions. It was divine and exactly what I wanted. Then the server came by and asked if they could get me anything else and I asked, “could I get a second one?”
I love all the light rules breaking that you can do when you’re eating alone. Order dessert first. Have two entrees. Get three appetizers at once as some kind of mezze.
Finally, I also appreciate how, for local places in my neighborhood, eating alone allows me to build better relationships with the staff. I tend to be pretty introverted and opt into using my books as company on most visits, but some of my best acquaintances with bartenders, servers, and restaurant managers have emerged over years of being a regular and familiar face and occasionally being willing to chat and catch up. It’s harder to do with company without making the staff member feel like a third wheel; but it’s a lovely benefit of dining solo.
posted by bl1nk at 4:08 AM on August 14, 2023 [58 favorites]
I remember once doing this multi day bike expedition navigating Vancouver Island from south to north then back. Once I returned to the city of Vancouver, I slept for ten hours then went out for breakfast. I sat myself at the counter for this brunch place where I ordered their fricassee, a hearty hash with poached eggs, beef short ribs, and caramelized onions. It was divine and exactly what I wanted. Then the server came by and asked if they could get me anything else and I asked, “could I get a second one?”
I love all the light rules breaking that you can do when you’re eating alone. Order dessert first. Have two entrees. Get three appetizers at once as some kind of mezze.
Finally, I also appreciate how, for local places in my neighborhood, eating alone allows me to build better relationships with the staff. I tend to be pretty introverted and opt into using my books as company on most visits, but some of my best acquaintances with bartenders, servers, and restaurant managers have emerged over years of being a regular and familiar face and occasionally being willing to chat and catch up. It’s harder to do with company without making the staff member feel like a third wheel; but it’s a lovely benefit of dining solo.
posted by bl1nk at 4:08 AM on August 14, 2023 [58 favorites]
Consistency would imply charging 3-person groups even less, 4-person groups less than that, and so on. Renting out the whole restaurant should be nigh-on free.
(The hotel thing is insane. You'd charge extra to let 3 people stay in a one-bed room; I can understand that, since the third person is avoiding paying for their own room. But how does it make any sense to charge a single person extra?)
posted by trig at 4:09 AM on August 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
(The hotel thing is insane. You'd charge extra to let 3 people stay in a one-bed room; I can understand that, since the third person is avoiding paying for their own room. But how does it make any sense to charge a single person extra?)
posted by trig at 4:09 AM on August 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
(I am also curious to know more about when hotel room charge solo visitors as it’s never happened to me. The only case I can think of is when it’s a tour and the tour operator is pre-reserving hotel rooms with an expectation that it can split the cost of each room across the revenue of two clients, and therefore they charge a single supplement or ask solo clients if they’re willing to double up)
posted by bl1nk at 4:16 AM on August 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by bl1nk at 4:16 AM on August 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
It's simpler than that. Most hotel rooms accommodate two people minimum. You never see a room with a single twin bed in it.
However, if you travel alone, the hotel doesn't give you the room for half price.
posted by JoeZydeco at 4:28 AM on August 14, 2023 [17 favorites]
However, if you travel alone, the hotel doesn't give you the room for half price.
posted by JoeZydeco at 4:28 AM on August 14, 2023 [17 favorites]
Also, while we're talking about discriminatory hotel pricing: wheelchair accessible hotel rooms cost significantly more than non-wheelchair-accessible hotel rooms, and if you complain the hotel line is "well, that's because the wheelchair-accessible hotel rooms are [very, very slightly] bigger"
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 4:53 AM on August 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 4:53 AM on August 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
You used to see hostel rooms with single twin beds—but they tend to get gentrified out now. Still salty about the Boston YWCA.
I used to have no trouble eating alone. Now I suffer from painful self-consciousness unless I am eating in a situation that’s clearly transitional: to or from a job; in a travel hub; in a coffee shop.
posted by Countess Elena at 4:58 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
I used to have no trouble eating alone. Now I suffer from painful self-consciousness unless I am eating in a situation that’s clearly transitional: to or from a job; in a travel hub; in a coffee shop.
posted by Countess Elena at 4:58 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
As someone who travels extensively (like 80%) and who often gets tired of corporate sponsoderd fun (obligated dinner with a new "friend" aka a client on a free meal) I truly enjoy dining alone. It's one of the rare times I get to be entirely alone with my thoughts.
As for the restaurant that charges double? Fuck right off with that. I'd either tell them to chew my foot or I'll take the other meal in a doggy bag just fine thanks. But honestly mostly the first one, I'd never eat in that restaurant. I'm lucky in life and work very hard and therefore and can afford to eat literally anywhere. I'll take my hard earned money to someone else.... Jeez. Do they charge people less for bigger than average parties? Do they round up for parties of 3 or 5? Seriously. Fucking atrocious.
posted by chasles at 5:13 AM on August 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
As for the restaurant that charges double? Fuck right off with that. I'd either tell them to chew my foot or I'll take the other meal in a doggy bag just fine thanks. But honestly mostly the first one, I'd never eat in that restaurant. I'm lucky in life and work very hard and therefore and can afford to eat literally anywhere. I'll take my hard earned money to someone else.... Jeez. Do they charge people less for bigger than average parties? Do they round up for parties of 3 or 5? Seriously. Fucking atrocious.
posted by chasles at 5:13 AM on August 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
Yeah, to get back to the thread - my wife is going away for a week to visit her parents and I'm already thinking about places where I want to eat while she's away. That fancy place down the street with a shady patio for reading while the sunsets. The neighborhood tapas place with a record store and book store in the back and prime people watching and scoping out what folks bought while waiting to be seated for dinner. A gastropub where a friend tends bar. I love dining with my wife, but there is a different experience to eating alone that I miss.
posted by bl1nk at 5:14 AM on August 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by bl1nk at 5:14 AM on August 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
Getting a table with a solo diner was always* a pleasure for me as a server.
I also appreciate how, for local places in my neighborhood, eating alone allows me to build better relationships with the staff.
Yes! People try to impress each other when they go out to eat together and often they like to use their server as a prop in their social games. It gets really old really fast. Solo diners mostly just want to have a nice meal and sometimes they're also really friendly and fun to chat with.
Maybe it's a numbers game. Groups of diners eating together are far more likely to contain at least one rude/inappropriate person. Give me the solo diner and you can take the twelve top full of "ladies who lunch" or "business bros" please and thanks.
*Customer service proves the old bit about exceptions to the rule. I had one solo diner who was a nightmare. He would come in and glare around and seat himself at the service table by the kitchen and bark "half oatmeal!!" at me and the whole dang dining room. I don't know who told this guy that we served a dish called half oatmeal but for some reason the kitchen always humored him and made him a soup cup of oatmeal. We charged him half of what the oatmeal on the menu cost. Infuriating. He liked to eat his ridiculously tiny half oatmeal with a big ass spoon. Powerless people do what we can to get through the day so even though he came in at least once a week I always made him "ask" me for his preferred silverware rather than bringing it automatically to him. It still warms my my petty little heart to remember his infuriated howls of "SOUP SPOON!!"
So yeah this idea is ridiculous. Charge annoying people more $ please.
posted by RobinofFrocksley at 5:15 AM on August 14, 2023 [20 favorites]
I also appreciate how, for local places in my neighborhood, eating alone allows me to build better relationships with the staff.
Yes! People try to impress each other when they go out to eat together and often they like to use their server as a prop in their social games. It gets really old really fast. Solo diners mostly just want to have a nice meal and sometimes they're also really friendly and fun to chat with.
Maybe it's a numbers game. Groups of diners eating together are far more likely to contain at least one rude/inappropriate person. Give me the solo diner and you can take the twelve top full of "ladies who lunch" or "business bros" please and thanks.
*Customer service proves the old bit about exceptions to the rule. I had one solo diner who was a nightmare. He would come in and glare around and seat himself at the service table by the kitchen and bark "half oatmeal!!" at me and the whole dang dining room. I don't know who told this guy that we served a dish called half oatmeal but for some reason the kitchen always humored him and made him a soup cup of oatmeal. We charged him half of what the oatmeal on the menu cost. Infuriating. He liked to eat his ridiculously tiny half oatmeal with a big ass spoon. Powerless people do what we can to get through the day so even though he came in at least once a week I always made him "ask" me for his preferred silverware rather than bringing it automatically to him. It still warms my my petty little heart to remember his infuriated howls of "SOUP SPOON!!"
So yeah this idea is ridiculous. Charge annoying people more $ please.
posted by RobinofFrocksley at 5:15 AM on August 14, 2023 [20 favorites]
I have run across some restaurants that simply won't seat solo dinners. I am not sure if this is better or worse.
posted by jacquilynne at 5:16 AM on August 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 5:16 AM on August 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Since my wife passed away last year, I hardly ever go out to eat by myself. For 25 years we had one meal out together almost every day (it was a way to break up the day from both working at home, then both being retired and home all the time). I do have a regular weekly lunch date with a couple we were friends with, but otherwise it’s just so hard eating alone. It feels like it compounds the sense of loneliness and loss. Thank god for carry out, since I have found it hard to cook for one as well.
We used to travel a lot, and I’ve been hit by the single traveler upcharge from tour groups, it’s not double, but still sucks to pay an extra 50%.
posted by gmatom at 5:19 AM on August 14, 2023 [27 favorites]
We used to travel a lot, and I’ve been hit by the single traveler upcharge from tour groups, it’s not double, but still sucks to pay an extra 50%.
posted by gmatom at 5:19 AM on August 14, 2023 [27 favorites]
I eat out alone pretty often, I also dislike the social judgement I feel about it. I don't think that's the issue at hand here.
That sounds like it's a failing of the restaurant's business model, then, if they aren't doing well enough to accommodate the occasional solo diner. Why ask strangers to pay the price for your own poor business decisions?
This is where I want to push back. I actually looked this place, their location and their hours up. We are not talking about a normal place to eat, this is a fine dining place that is open for about 20 hours per week and operates out of the catering kitchen for a very expensive hotel. When they say they have 11 tables, they mean they have 11 tables per night. They do tasting menus, I'm guessing they aren't getting hour and a half turnovers.
That means that a solo diner is no small thing, each table is about 10% of the income for any given night, they are not so much selling you the food you are eating as they are selling you access to that table for the evening, and access to that table is in high demand, they can easily find a party of four who'd gladly take it and make them 4x the money. Their margins are slim, they probably are losing money on solo diners.
So you can be mad at the business model, you can think the economics of fine dining are stupid, I sure do, but that's the reality of that industry. It's an extreme luxury that has no reason to exist and it comes with weird and annoying rules. It has exactly nothing to do with social judgement of people dining alone, however. It's a question of economics.
posted by neonrev at 5:25 AM on August 14, 2023 [50 favorites]
That sounds like it's a failing of the restaurant's business model, then, if they aren't doing well enough to accommodate the occasional solo diner. Why ask strangers to pay the price for your own poor business decisions?
This is where I want to push back. I actually looked this place, their location and their hours up. We are not talking about a normal place to eat, this is a fine dining place that is open for about 20 hours per week and operates out of the catering kitchen for a very expensive hotel. When they say they have 11 tables, they mean they have 11 tables per night. They do tasting menus, I'm guessing they aren't getting hour and a half turnovers.
That means that a solo diner is no small thing, each table is about 10% of the income for any given night, they are not so much selling you the food you are eating as they are selling you access to that table for the evening, and access to that table is in high demand, they can easily find a party of four who'd gladly take it and make them 4x the money. Their margins are slim, they probably are losing money on solo diners.
So you can be mad at the business model, you can think the economics of fine dining are stupid, I sure do, but that's the reality of that industry. It's an extreme luxury that has no reason to exist and it comes with weird and annoying rules. It has exactly nothing to do with social judgement of people dining alone, however. It's a question of economics.
posted by neonrev at 5:25 AM on August 14, 2023 [50 favorites]
I eat out alone and usually prefer it. I go to movies by myself and definitely prefer it. I have travelled all over the world and lived in 7 countries and did it all alone. If people were judging me for any of it, I was unaware of it.
But the singles tax is nothing new. Netflix charges single people the same rate as a family of four. Loblaws Grocery chain offers discounts when you buy 2 of something. On and on... it's fucking ridiculous and I'm sick of it. I don't mind being alone. I mind having to pay extra for the privilege.
posted by dobbs at 5:33 AM on August 14, 2023 [8 favorites]
But the singles tax is nothing new. Netflix charges single people the same rate as a family of four. Loblaws Grocery chain offers discounts when you buy 2 of something. On and on... it's fucking ridiculous and I'm sick of it. I don't mind being alone. I mind having to pay extra for the privilege.
posted by dobbs at 5:33 AM on August 14, 2023 [8 favorites]
You used to see hostel rooms with single twin beds—but they tend to get gentrified out now. Still salty about the Boston YWCA.
Some still do; I worked in that business for twenty-plus years and travelled in them for longer, so based on several hundred nights in hostels, there are still some.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:39 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Some still do; I worked in that business for twenty-plus years and travelled in them for longer, so based on several hundred nights in hostels, there are still some.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:39 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
If social judgment against people eating (and existing) alone didn’t exist, restaurants couldn’t do this. The economy is something we collectively choose, not a natural law. Blaming it for our failures in a case like this (as opposed to, y’know, poverty) is abdicating responsibility. The owners of this restaurant chose a business model that excludes solo diners because they could. I do not feel bad for them.
I almost never dine solo, but if I found out a restaurant I liked was doing this, I’d never go there again. Discrimination of this sort is fucked up.
posted by vim876 at 5:40 AM on August 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
I almost never dine solo, but if I found out a restaurant I liked was doing this, I’d never go there again. Discrimination of this sort is fucked up.
posted by vim876 at 5:40 AM on August 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
So it appears that they are charging by the table, not by the diner. From the second link: "The restaurant later said that there are always one or two tables open for solo dining without a minimum spend."
That's slightly more defensible, but it's still weird.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:44 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
That's slightly more defensible, but it's still weird.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:44 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
So you can be mad at the business model, you can think the economics of fine dining are stupid, I sure do, but that's the reality of that industry. It's an extreme luxury that has no reason to exist and it comes with weird and annoying rules. It has exactly nothing to do with social judgement of people dining alone, however. It's a question of economics.
My refusal to patronize a restaurant that does something so ridiculous is also a question of economics.
"Fine dining" may be an extreme luxury, but plenty of other fine dining restaurants have figured out how to accommodate solo patrons without charging them twice as much as they ordinarily would. My paying for a meal but only getting half the quantity of food I paid for does not make economic sense for me, so....
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:45 AM on August 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
My refusal to patronize a restaurant that does something so ridiculous is also a question of economics.
"Fine dining" may be an extreme luxury, but plenty of other fine dining restaurants have figured out how to accommodate solo patrons without charging them twice as much as they ordinarily would. My paying for a meal but only getting half the quantity of food I paid for does not make economic sense for me, so....
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:45 AM on August 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
You never see a room with a single twin bed in it.
However, if you travel alone, the hotel doesn't give you the room for half price.
Single rooms are very much a thing pretty much everywhere I've travelled (Northern Europe and Asia). They don't cost half, sure, but a double or twin room isn't twice the size either.
posted by Dysk at 5:47 AM on August 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
However, if you travel alone, the hotel doesn't give you the room for half price.
Single rooms are very much a thing pretty much everywhere I've travelled (Northern Europe and Asia). They don't cost half, sure, but a double or twin room isn't twice the size either.
posted by Dysk at 5:47 AM on August 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
Netflix charges single people the same rate as a family of four.
Isn't this sort of thing just the lowest tier of service, not discriminating against a single viewer? The opposite would actually be a discount for being one person using the service, in my view, but maybe I'm not groking it properly.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:47 AM on August 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Isn't this sort of thing just the lowest tier of service, not discriminating against a single viewer? The opposite would actually be a discount for being one person using the service, in my view, but maybe I'm not groking it properly.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:47 AM on August 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Having once had to travel weekly for work - I have never really felt any "eyes on me" or stigma for eating alone. Frankly, I prefer it; I eat what I want, how I want, in the order I want - and get to pick the specific restaurant with no haggling/negotiations. I bring my book, phone or laptop - and am perfectly happy.
Now... I would be furious if I were charged double - however - I wouldn't choose one of those fancy schmancy places anyways, even if it were on the "corporate dime"/expensable.
posted by rozcakj at 5:48 AM on August 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
Now... I would be furious if I were charged double - however - I wouldn't choose one of those fancy schmancy places anyways, even if it were on the "corporate dime"/expensable.
posted by rozcakj at 5:48 AM on August 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
But the singles tax is nothing new. Netflix charges single people the same rate as a family of four. Loblaws Grocery chain offers discounts when you buy 2 of something. On and on... it's fucking ridiculous and I'm sick of it. I don't mind being alone. I mind having to pay extra for the privilege.
I mean, I can club together with noone friends and pay 10% of the sticker price of a book, and we all get to read it. Does that mean that I should get 90% off if I buy a book without clubbing together with mates?
posted by Dysk at 5:50 AM on August 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
I mean, I can club together with noone friends and pay 10% of the sticker price of a book, and we all get to read it. Does that mean that I should get 90% off if I buy a book without clubbing together with mates?
posted by Dysk at 5:50 AM on August 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
(The less inflammatory route the restaurant could've gone is to specify a two mains orders minimum, or two tasting menus or whatever, per table. Achieves near enough the same thing without looking half as unreasonable.)
posted by Dysk at 5:52 AM on August 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by Dysk at 5:52 AM on August 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
this might be more of a metatalk piece, but this discussion with the hotel room derail (which I admittedly participated in) feels like it's changing this thread to discussing how our dual-income society penalizes single people -- which is definitely a worthwhile thread to discuss, but I'm not sure is what this thread is supposed to be as it crowds out the "pleasure" half of the post's proposition.
posted by bl1nk at 5:53 AM on August 14, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by bl1nk at 5:53 AM on August 14, 2023 [8 favorites]
Netflix charges single people the same rate as a family of four.
Netflix offers different plans with different prices based on how many active connections you want to be allowed to have. They no longer have a single connection tier in Canada, but they do have two and four connection tiers.
posted by jacquilynne at 5:57 AM on August 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Netflix offers different plans with different prices based on how many active connections you want to be allowed to have. They no longer have a single connection tier in Canada, but they do have two and four connection tiers.
posted by jacquilynne at 5:57 AM on August 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Wouldn't it make more sense just to say, "We're a very small restaurant so we reserve seats, not tables, and if you come solo there's a chance a stranger will be seated at the table with you. Is that all right?" If it's such a super-fancy expensive gourmet experience place I doubt the people who want to go would be turned away by that. Maybe I'm dumb, but I don't see why that isn't the immediate solution here.
posted by kyrademon at 5:59 AM on August 14, 2023 [32 favorites]
posted by kyrademon at 5:59 AM on August 14, 2023 [32 favorites]
"You never see a room with a single twin bed in it."
Because twin beds are generally for children. I don't travel much and I've stayed in plenty of rooms that only have one bed (the ones I've stayed at in NY City were full size, but others have been larger). I've also never paid a higher rate because I was the only one in the room — because I'm renting a room, not being charged admission. The fact that you're not able to split the cost among two people doesn't mean you're being "punished." Also, bulk discounts aren’t "punishing" you because you're only buying one.
Charging single diners twice the price is, of course, ridiculous. Surely, they have tables that seat four. What do they do with a party of three? Shouldn't they also have to pay more to make up for the empty seat? Maybe they should just do like golf courses and only allow foursomes.
posted by jonathanhughes at 6:01 AM on August 14, 2023 [13 favorites]
Because twin beds are generally for children. I don't travel much and I've stayed in plenty of rooms that only have one bed (the ones I've stayed at in NY City were full size, but others have been larger). I've also never paid a higher rate because I was the only one in the room — because I'm renting a room, not being charged admission. The fact that you're not able to split the cost among two people doesn't mean you're being "punished." Also, bulk discounts aren’t "punishing" you because you're only buying one.
Charging single diners twice the price is, of course, ridiculous. Surely, they have tables that seat four. What do they do with a party of three? Shouldn't they also have to pay more to make up for the empty seat? Maybe they should just do like golf courses and only allow foursomes.
posted by jonathanhughes at 6:01 AM on August 14, 2023 [13 favorites]
(Honestly, for some reason I assumed that at least some of these super-fancy tasting menu places just had big communal tables anyway. Everybody's getting the same thing.)
posted by kyrademon at 6:02 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by kyrademon at 6:02 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Okay: I was the one who introduced the "hotels charging people extra" derail, so let me try to stop it: I was indeed thinking of package tours, which I've often wanted to do but can't for that reason.
I was officially wrong about hotels charging double for a single person occupying a room.
Now back to dining.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:04 AM on August 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
I was officially wrong about hotels charging double for a single person occupying a room.
Now back to dining.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:04 AM on August 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
Perhaps if charging double for single dining becomes more widespread, people may start choosing to take a homeless person to lunch.
posted by fairmettle at 6:08 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by fairmettle at 6:08 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'll chime in, as someone who eats alone most of the time, and observe I can often by-pass long waits at restaurants by dint of coming in alone. There's often a single seat at the bar (and I'm happy to eat there v. a table). And if everyone ahead of you is party of 3 or more, you'll likely get seated at the next 2-top. This happens more often than you might imagine.
Also if you like to eat dim sum (*) long waits in the best/most popular places can often be by-passed by indicating to the host that you're willing to share a table. It's pretty typical arrangement but often not offered to non-Asians. Also it's usually way more fun if you're willing to engage your table mates, asking them what they're ordering, etc. This has worked for me in NYC as well as HK, i.e. language is almost never a barrier when food is involved.
(*) - Just putting it out there that dim sum solo is kind of aberrant and it's much more a dining modality for groups.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 6:16 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Also if you like to eat dim sum (*) long waits in the best/most popular places can often be by-passed by indicating to the host that you're willing to share a table. It's pretty typical arrangement but often not offered to non-Asians. Also it's usually way more fun if you're willing to engage your table mates, asking them what they're ordering, etc. This has worked for me in NYC as well as HK, i.e. language is almost never a barrier when food is involved.
(*) - Just putting it out there that dim sum solo is kind of aberrant and it's much more a dining modality for groups.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 6:16 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
changing this thread to discussing how our dual-income society penalizes single people -- which is definitely a worthwhile thread to discuss, but I'm not sure is what this thread is supposed to be as it crowds out the "pleasure" half of the post's proposition.
Yeah, this went away from that aspect of stuff instantly. Personally, I don't know how to or have much to say about eating alone. It's pretty fun sometimes. I used to work overnights and went for 'dinner' at a cafe place that served normal food at 8am, it was great getting to know the people there in a way I never would as part of a group. I guess I've never done a fancy meal for myself eating out, normally if I'm doing a special solo meal I order in.
I've never seen the double charge thing, I too would simply not eat there if I did, but also the prices at the only example given so far would make me also not eat there even if we could share the tasting menu over 5 people.
The one place mentioned in this post is a bad example of the kinds of problems people want to talk about, the entire point of a place like that is to be exclusive and exclusionary. It has 11 tables.
posted by neonrev at 6:23 AM on August 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
Yeah, this went away from that aspect of stuff instantly. Personally, I don't know how to or have much to say about eating alone. It's pretty fun sometimes. I used to work overnights and went for 'dinner' at a cafe place that served normal food at 8am, it was great getting to know the people there in a way I never would as part of a group. I guess I've never done a fancy meal for myself eating out, normally if I'm doing a special solo meal I order in.
I've never seen the double charge thing, I too would simply not eat there if I did, but also the prices at the only example given so far would make me also not eat there even if we could share the tasting menu over 5 people.
The one place mentioned in this post is a bad example of the kinds of problems people want to talk about, the entire point of a place like that is to be exclusive and exclusionary. It has 11 tables.
posted by neonrev at 6:23 AM on August 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
That tiny restaurant could have some small tables for solo diners-- it would still be less space-efficient than for groups of four, but there could at least be a smaller surcharge.
I've eaten by myself a *lot*, and was weirded out by M. F. K. Fisher's stuff about social issues around eating alone. I don't think anyone cares very much generally speaking.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 6:29 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
I've eaten by myself a *lot*, and was weirded out by M. F. K. Fisher's stuff about social issues around eating alone. I don't think anyone cares very much generally speaking.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 6:29 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Thinking it over, I can trace my dislike of deliberate eating alone to times that people were jerks to me. Like when I was enjoying some nachos as my dinner and the elderly guy next to me said, "that's dietetic, isn't it?" I mean, I laughed because he was with his wife and clearly doing the avuncular thing, but I was like ... do not PERCEIVE me. Do not PERCEIVE MY NACHOS. And, too, the times that staff have treated me like trouble or annoyance, which I internalize because so much of their job is troublesome and annoying, even when I know I have done absolutely nothing wrong.
But there are also meals and drinks I absolutely treasured: the perfect beer in the perfect place; the time I got stood up by an internet date and the bartender was sympathetic and cheerful as I had my own good-sized dinner ... I should try it more. Maybe be less afraid of perception.
Even so, I would not have a three-figure dinner by myself. What would you want that for, anyway? It's got a lot of social purposes that you can't accomplish by yourself.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:29 AM on August 14, 2023 [11 favorites]
But there are also meals and drinks I absolutely treasured: the perfect beer in the perfect place; the time I got stood up by an internet date and the bartender was sympathetic and cheerful as I had my own good-sized dinner ... I should try it more. Maybe be less afraid of perception.
Even so, I would not have a three-figure dinner by myself. What would you want that for, anyway? It's got a lot of social purposes that you can't accomplish by yourself.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:29 AM on August 14, 2023 [11 favorites]
The whole "charging double" scenario just seems like a poor business decision. It irritates virtually everyone who is aware of it, for a likely negligible benefit that could be achieved in less openly hostile ways. If you don't want single diners, why not just never make reservations available for single diners? Or have them available at the bar only? Or plan for the actual number of covers that you serve rather than your imagined fantasy number of covers?
Also, aren't many restaurant reviews written by single diners? By all means let's increase the odds that a paragraph of the review will be devoted to a pricing strategy rather than the food!
> Why ask strangers to pay the price for your own poor business decisions?
To be fair, "asking strangers to pay the price for your own poor business decisions" is basically what it means to open a business of any kind. Especially a restaurant. My general assumption is that eating in any awesome little restaurant is basically the owner's kids' college funds, tartare, served with a sparkling glass of their tears, harvested in the late-night flicker of industrial kitchen lights.
posted by bgribble at 6:33 AM on August 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
Also, aren't many restaurant reviews written by single diners? By all means let's increase the odds that a paragraph of the review will be devoted to a pricing strategy rather than the food!
> Why ask strangers to pay the price for your own poor business decisions?
To be fair, "asking strangers to pay the price for your own poor business decisions" is basically what it means to open a business of any kind. Especially a restaurant. My general assumption is that eating in any awesome little restaurant is basically the owner's kids' college funds, tartare, served with a sparkling glass of their tears, harvested in the late-night flicker of industrial kitchen lights.
posted by bgribble at 6:33 AM on August 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
Even so, I would not have a three-figure dinner by myself. What would you want that for, anyway?
Not that I've had such a meal because I'm a broke-ass chick, but I can still think of several reasons -
* You like fine food.
* You're a recent widow who'd always promised your late husband that when he got over his cancer you'd go there for a meal, but he died, and now it's a year since his death and you wanted to commemorate that.
* You'd originally planned it as a date but your date got sick/stood you up and you decided "well, hell, I'm already here, I may as well."
And the biggest reason:
* Because.
...Even if I personally cannot see myself doing a particular thing, I still strive to grant others the right to do so instead of marvelling about "why would anyone even want to do that". It's their business, and I don't get a vote in what they do. If it's legal and doesn't impact me, why not just let them be?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:36 AM on August 14, 2023 [19 favorites]
Not that I've had such a meal because I'm a broke-ass chick, but I can still think of several reasons -
* You like fine food.
* You're a recent widow who'd always promised your late husband that when he got over his cancer you'd go there for a meal, but he died, and now it's a year since his death and you wanted to commemorate that.
* You'd originally planned it as a date but your date got sick/stood you up and you decided "well, hell, I'm already here, I may as well."
And the biggest reason:
* Because.
...Even if I personally cannot see myself doing a particular thing, I still strive to grant others the right to do so instead of marvelling about "why would anyone even want to do that". It's their business, and I don't get a vote in what they do. If it's legal and doesn't impact me, why not just let them be?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:36 AM on August 14, 2023 [19 favorites]
Even so, I would not have a three-figure dinner by myself. What would you want that for, anyway? It's got a lot of social purposes that you can't accomplish by yourself.
Just because a fine dining meal can serve social needs doesn't mean you can't enjoy it on your own.
I have eaten in fine dining restaurants by myself because I really love creative, interesting, chef-driven food and not all of my friends are into that sort of thing. Sure, it's more fun if you're with someone who is also into it and can discuss the food, but I'd way rather go myself than with someone who is going to be 'are we gonna stop at McDonalds on the way home?' through the whole meal.
Occasionally, it has been incredibly awkward, though usually through no fault of the restaurant particularly. I once had a very delicious but very awkward lunch at an alta cocina restaurant in Mexico City because I entirely misjudged what time Mexicans eat lunch and not only was I dining alone, I was literally the only person in a large restaurant with about 5 front of house staff just constantly watching for any sign that I might want anything.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:37 AM on August 14, 2023 [8 favorites]
Just because a fine dining meal can serve social needs doesn't mean you can't enjoy it on your own.
I have eaten in fine dining restaurants by myself because I really love creative, interesting, chef-driven food and not all of my friends are into that sort of thing. Sure, it's more fun if you're with someone who is also into it and can discuss the food, but I'd way rather go myself than with someone who is going to be 'are we gonna stop at McDonalds on the way home?' through the whole meal.
Occasionally, it has been incredibly awkward, though usually through no fault of the restaurant particularly. I once had a very delicious but very awkward lunch at an alta cocina restaurant in Mexico City because I entirely misjudged what time Mexicans eat lunch and not only was I dining alone, I was literally the only person in a large restaurant with about 5 front of house staff just constantly watching for any sign that I might want anything.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:37 AM on August 14, 2023 [8 favorites]
Eating alone isn't my first choice, but I do it, especially when traveling for work. In my opinion best practice is to sit at the bar, so I don't feel like I'm using up a table that would otherwise be serving multiple people. Also, bartenders are often chatty, which I enjoy. On the other hand, my experience is that bartenders, like cab drivers and hair cutters, are pretty good on picking up whether you're in a "chat with me" mood or not.
posted by escabeche at 6:49 AM on August 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by escabeche at 6:49 AM on August 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Dining alone is the best. Especially at fine restaurants! Sometimes it’s nice to have someone to concur with about the food, but if I’m dropping serious cash i usually want to be able to indulge pure food bliss without interruption.
posted by Conrad-Casserole at 6:52 AM on August 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by Conrad-Casserole at 6:52 AM on August 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
(Honestly, for some reason I assumed that at least some of these super-fancy tasting menu places just had big communal tables anyway. Everybody's getting the same thing.)
The last time I ate at a place with purely communal tables was at a very good (but fairly cheap, not Fine Diining) restaurant in Portugal. Their menu was extremely short, with just four entres (I recall bacalhau, rabbit, and two others) and three wines (red, white, green). Seating was at long picnic type tables. It was a little bit like the first day of lunch at a new school, where you have to make a snap judgment about who to sit next to and hope that they are nice and welcoming. Everyone was, it was great, and I wish more restaurants had this kind of casual open seating.
I love eating out alone, both here in town and on work trips. My preference is for bar seating (where like someone said, you can dial your sociality up and down by having a book open or closed). If I'm in a new city and walking past places I'm considering, I definitely eyeball them for how well they seem to be set up for eating alone. I've never had anyone be a jerk, but I have gotten the "here, we'll seat you in this out of the way corner while we focus on our real customers" which isn't ideal, but isn't horrible either.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:53 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
The last time I ate at a place with purely communal tables was at a very good (but fairly cheap, not Fine Diining) restaurant in Portugal. Their menu was extremely short, with just four entres (I recall bacalhau, rabbit, and two others) and three wines (red, white, green). Seating was at long picnic type tables. It was a little bit like the first day of lunch at a new school, where you have to make a snap judgment about who to sit next to and hope that they are nice and welcoming. Everyone was, it was great, and I wish more restaurants had this kind of casual open seating.
I love eating out alone, both here in town and on work trips. My preference is for bar seating (where like someone said, you can dial your sociality up and down by having a book open or closed). If I'm in a new city and walking past places I'm considering, I definitely eyeball them for how well they seem to be set up for eating alone. I've never had anyone be a jerk, but I have gotten the "here, we'll seat you in this out of the way corner while we focus on our real customers" which isn't ideal, but isn't horrible either.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:53 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
I usually eat alone when I'm not at some sort of special event, and that's fine by me because restaurants are usually relatively noisy (I think that there was an FPP about this not long ago) and I have difficulty holding conversations there. But I do think that there are some places where, even if they have smaller tables that aren't "wasting" space on a single diner (although they're probably intended for two), the staff tend to pay more attention to larger groups, possibly because they usually mean more tips. I'm still pissed at the restaurant in Brooklyn that I was at nearly thirty years ago where I was seated and then ignored for long enough for the group that was seated near me after I came in had their orders taken and appetizers served, and when I finally got a server's attention, they were out of the house special that I had gone there to get in the first place. It's a damn shame because it seemed like the kind of cozy establishment where I wouldn't feel out of place as a single diner.
Also, WRT the hotel thing: it seems like most hotels and motels have rooms that are either single king-sized bed or two queen sized. I know that people can and will double up on rooms for conventions and whatnot--I just did that for Gen Con--but there have to be a bunch of people for whom either the extra bed or the extra room in a king are just wasted.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:54 AM on August 14, 2023
Also, WRT the hotel thing: it seems like most hotels and motels have rooms that are either single king-sized bed or two queen sized. I know that people can and will double up on rooms for conventions and whatnot--I just did that for Gen Con--but there have to be a bunch of people for whom either the extra bed or the extra room in a king are just wasted.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:54 AM on August 14, 2023
I was enjoying some nachos as my dinner and the elderly guy next to me said, "that's dietetic, isn't it?" I mean, I laughed because he was with his wife and clearly doing the avuncular thing, but I was like ... do not PERCEIVE me. Do not PERCEIVE MY NACHOS.My most memorable bit of being annoyed (admittedly -- actually only mildly annoyed) with unwanted conversation while dining alone was when I was seated at the bar of this gastropub in Cambridge, MA back in 2012 with a relatively fresh hardback copy of A Dance With Dragons next to me. A drunk girl on her way out caught sight of the book cover and took it upon herself to walk up and say, "you know, I have forgotten so much about those books. I was watching the Game of Thrones thing on HBO last night and I was all 'who are all of these Stark children? Where did they come from? Who is Bran?' WHO IS BRAN?"
Her friends tugged her away from me before I could say anything. But it felt like such A Cambridge Conversation to have. I have gone back to that gastropub since and I had hoped to see if that girl would show up so I could find out if she ever got caught up with who Bran was, but alas.
posted by bl1nk at 7:08 AM on August 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
Funny thing, that was also a Cambridge conversation that I had! Not as welcome, though. I was living there at the time. It was that pub, I forget its name, the one you step down to and sit outside on the little concrete porch for maximum comfort. I hope it's still there! The bathroom's a little divey and it's dark inside, but they don't mind if you read. That was a given about restaurants and bars in Cambridge -- lots of people reading.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:14 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Countess Elena at 7:14 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Perma-single here. I rarely do solo dining anymore.
When I lived in Montreal, solo dining was a real pleasure. Restaurants welcomed it, and I was sure not to be the only one. A culture that is open to solo dining, a critical mass of singles wanting to go -- it was a welcome experience.
Moving back to southern Ontario, I tried solo dining, but it's always a miserable experience. A solo diner is guaranteed to get the shittiest table in the house, regardless of whether the restaurant is even busy. You will be pressed to finish your meal quickly to free up the valuable real estate of your table in case a larger party comes walking through the door. At best, you will be treated like they're doing you a favour letting you in, at worst, you will be treated like some weirdo loser.
It's never an enjoyable experience. Why spend money on meals as entertainment if you're not going to have a good time? No need for an extra singles charge -- I know when I'm not wanted.
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:19 AM on August 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
When I lived in Montreal, solo dining was a real pleasure. Restaurants welcomed it, and I was sure not to be the only one. A culture that is open to solo dining, a critical mass of singles wanting to go -- it was a welcome experience.
Moving back to southern Ontario, I tried solo dining, but it's always a miserable experience. A solo diner is guaranteed to get the shittiest table in the house, regardless of whether the restaurant is even busy. You will be pressed to finish your meal quickly to free up the valuable real estate of your table in case a larger party comes walking through the door. At best, you will be treated like they're doing you a favour letting you in, at worst, you will be treated like some weirdo loser.
It's never an enjoyable experience. Why spend money on meals as entertainment if you're not going to have a good time? No need for an extra singles charge -- I know when I'm not wanted.
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:19 AM on August 14, 2023 [10 favorites]
Also, aren't many restaurant reviews written by single diners?My understanding is that professional reviewers (e.g., Pete Wells at the NYT, Bill Addison at the LA Times) often dine in a group specifically so they can try multiple dishes. There was an interesting interlude in Ruth Reichl's memoir of her time as Times restaurant critic, Garlic and Sapphires, where she discusses how she's treated differently at restaurants when she's dining alone, as opposed to with a companion.
Dining alone, especially at nice places, is (can be) such a marvelous experience. It is something I love to do when I've had a hard day or week, so I can relax and feel a little cared for, someone bringing me food and cleaning up while all I have to do is be polite, enjoy myself, and tip well. Such a balm.
posted by pollytropos at 7:24 AM on August 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
When I was on my motorcycle camping trip in the Maritimes, I always ate alone in restaurants and it was always delightful. The staff are much more engaging, other solo diners might be up for chat, and it’s easier to contemplate the food or maybe get something special from the kitchen with a conversation. One I splurged out at the only sushi restaurant on Newfoundland (apparently) and got some fairly unique cuts of local fish. Anyway, it is a very different experience than dining with friends, and approached that way is fun.
I am reminded of the tiny restaurants in Japan etc where you will be interacting with other diners and the owner whether you are solo or not simply because they are just a few seats around a counter and everyone is knees and elbows no matter what.
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:34 AM on August 14, 2023
I am reminded of the tiny restaurants in Japan etc where you will be interacting with other diners and the owner whether you are solo or not simply because they are just a few seats around a counter and everyone is knees and elbows no matter what.
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:34 AM on August 14, 2023
Yet another reason to avoid posh restaurants, as if we didn't have enough reasons already.
posted by smcdow at 7:49 AM on August 14, 2023
posted by smcdow at 7:49 AM on August 14, 2023
twin beds are generally for children [and not single adults]
This is another American cultural thing that as an Indian immigrant I took a very long time to even realize, let alone comprehend.
The first time I heard someone say it, it was the guy at the mattress store, and I really thought he was just trying to upsell me!
I'm still a fan of the humble twin bed but now at least I know about the cultural difference around it.
posted by splitpeasoup at 7:53 AM on August 14, 2023 [8 favorites]
This is another American cultural thing that as an Indian immigrant I took a very long time to even realize, let alone comprehend.
The first time I heard someone say it, it was the guy at the mattress store, and I really thought he was just trying to upsell me!
I'm still a fan of the humble twin bed but now at least I know about the cultural difference around it.
posted by splitpeasoup at 7:53 AM on August 14, 2023 [8 favorites]
On another note, I don't go to a restaurant to have an "experience". I go because i want to eat dinner. Please stop trying to give me an "experience". I'm not interested.
posted by smcdow at 7:54 AM on August 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by smcdow at 7:54 AM on August 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
I eat out solo relatively often and I love it. The cafe owners around my town all know me, it's a nice opportunity to catch up and rest before I go on with my day.
That said, everyone who is saying that solo people should sit at the bar possibly knows more comfortable bar seats than I - too high, feet dangling, no backs, a precarious perch with no place to hang your things. Ghastly.
posted by HypotheticalWoman at 7:56 AM on August 14, 2023 [15 favorites]
That said, everyone who is saying that solo people should sit at the bar possibly knows more comfortable bar seats than I - too high, feet dangling, no backs, a precarious perch with no place to hang your things. Ghastly.
posted by HypotheticalWoman at 7:56 AM on August 14, 2023 [15 favorites]
Even so, I would not have a three-figure dinner by myself. What would you want that for, anyway?
Uh...the food? Which is generally quite good, actually, even if there is a theoretical universe in which sharing it made it ineffably better.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:58 AM on August 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
Uh...the food? Which is generally quite good, actually, even if there is a theoretical universe in which sharing it made it ineffably better.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:58 AM on August 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
On another note, I don't go to a restaurant to have an "experience". I go because i want to eat dinner. Please stop trying to give me an "experience". I'm not interested.
Then you're almost certainly not choosing to eat at a Michelin starred restaurant that serves only tasting menus. And if you are choosing to eat at Michelin starred restaurants that serve only tasting menus, maybe make better choices for yourself?
posted by jacquilynne at 8:08 AM on August 14, 2023 [9 favorites]
Then you're almost certainly not choosing to eat at a Michelin starred restaurant that serves only tasting menus. And if you are choosing to eat at Michelin starred restaurants that serve only tasting menus, maybe make better choices for yourself?
posted by jacquilynne at 8:08 AM on August 14, 2023 [9 favorites]
I have eaten in fine dining restaurants by myself because I really love creative, interesting, chef-driven food and not all of my friends are into that sort of thing. Sure, it's more fun if you're with someone who is also into it and can discuss the food
I've been blessed for this. I have some good friends for those occasions, the conversion will either be about that meal, a previous meal we enjoyed or a future meal we're planning to enjoy.
I've eaten alone because work trip, or because I was traveling alone. But I'll admit at home, my reflex has always been to get some take out / basic place if eating alone. Which I assume I'd change if I hadn't got access to said friends when I want a good meal I don't have to cook.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:09 AM on August 14, 2023
I've been blessed for this. I have some good friends for those occasions, the conversion will either be about that meal, a previous meal we enjoyed or a future meal we're planning to enjoy.
I've eaten alone because work trip, or because I was traveling alone. But I'll admit at home, my reflex has always been to get some take out / basic place if eating alone. Which I assume I'd change if I hadn't got access to said friends when I want a good meal I don't have to cook.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:09 AM on August 14, 2023
> Then you're almost certainly not choosing to eat at a Michelin starred restaurant
Gee, ya think? Possession of Michelin stars has absolutely no bearing on whether any particular restaurant attempts to offer an "experience". And even if it did possess stars, I'm still not interested.
posted by smcdow at 8:24 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Gee, ya think? Possession of Michelin stars has absolutely no bearing on whether any particular restaurant attempts to offer an "experience". And even if it did possess stars, I'm still not interested.
posted by smcdow at 8:24 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Even so, I would not have a three-figure dinner by myself. What would you want that for, anyway?
Because...good food is tasty?
I admit that I will not do a two-hour tasting dinner solo anymore. It does start to feel a little weird, especially because at that kind of meal you don't want to be filling in with a book or something, so you start to wonder where to look in between courses. But I might crumble if I were traveling somewhere special on my own.
But...man...if people realized how nice it is to have the option to do all kinds of things fully by themselves when they felt like it...apparently civilization would come to an end! Oh no some random stranger might see me eating alone and think I might not have friends (*), whatever shall I do????
(*) Separate issue from people feeling more authorized to get into your business when you're dining solo, which doesn't happen too often but is legitimately annoying.
posted by praemunire at 8:26 AM on August 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
Because...good food is tasty?
I admit that I will not do a two-hour tasting dinner solo anymore. It does start to feel a little weird, especially because at that kind of meal you don't want to be filling in with a book or something, so you start to wonder where to look in between courses. But I might crumble if I were traveling somewhere special on my own.
But...man...if people realized how nice it is to have the option to do all kinds of things fully by themselves when they felt like it...apparently civilization would come to an end! Oh no some random stranger might see me eating alone and think I might not have friends (*), whatever shall I do????
(*) Separate issue from people feeling more authorized to get into your business when you're dining solo, which doesn't happen too often but is legitimately annoying.
posted by praemunire at 8:26 AM on August 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
"do not PERCEIVE me. Do not PERCEIVE MY NACHOS."
This is going to be running through my head, now, for the rest of my life whenever I'm in some irritating situation like the one you describe. Thank you so much...
I always feel wildly self conscious when stuck dining out alone and don't deliberately do it. It only happens if someone is hideously late and I give up on them and order or they actually stand me up. I do not love the idea that the restaurant's examining me so closely that they actually have incorporated my plight into their business model and will officially recognize my status as a Sadkin Deserted by the World. IMO we should rebrand this practice the same way the republicans rebranded the capital gains tax. It's now a "bereavement tax." When making a reservation or walking in, ask, "Does this restaurant penalize grieving people?"
Re. "sit at the bar," yes: "...too high, feet dangling, no backs, a precarious perch with no place to hang your things." Yes, yes, yes to all that, and also: it puts my back to the room, which activates my Billy the Kid skin creep reflex. I hate it.
How about if the restaurants instead decided that occasional, easy, breezy one-top tables are a free perk for the waitstaff? Maybe I'm eating alone because I like to hog entire two-top tables and all my server's attention to my greedy greedy self, but maybe I'm eating alone because my spouse or my parent or my child died YESTERGODDAMNDAY, I'm suddenly alone and barely functioning, I'm on the edge of crying every minute, this was one of our favorite restaurants, and I'm eating here for complicated grief-related reasons. Assume the latter. Charge me the actual price you charge everybody else for food, treat me gently, make a convenient, comfy, cozy spot for me, and rely on me to tip enormously generously because I'm grateful to the waitstaff and the restaurant for being kind to me and not making me feel like a weird pariah?
posted by Don Pepino at 8:29 AM on August 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
This is going to be running through my head, now, for the rest of my life whenever I'm in some irritating situation like the one you describe. Thank you so much...
I always feel wildly self conscious when stuck dining out alone and don't deliberately do it. It only happens if someone is hideously late and I give up on them and order or they actually stand me up. I do not love the idea that the restaurant's examining me so closely that they actually have incorporated my plight into their business model and will officially recognize my status as a Sadkin Deserted by the World. IMO we should rebrand this practice the same way the republicans rebranded the capital gains tax. It's now a "bereavement tax." When making a reservation or walking in, ask, "Does this restaurant penalize grieving people?"
Re. "sit at the bar," yes: "...too high, feet dangling, no backs, a precarious perch with no place to hang your things." Yes, yes, yes to all that, and also: it puts my back to the room, which activates my Billy the Kid skin creep reflex. I hate it.
How about if the restaurants instead decided that occasional, easy, breezy one-top tables are a free perk for the waitstaff? Maybe I'm eating alone because I like to hog entire two-top tables and all my server's attention to my greedy greedy self, but maybe I'm eating alone because my spouse or my parent or my child died YESTERGODDAMNDAY, I'm suddenly alone and barely functioning, I'm on the edge of crying every minute, this was one of our favorite restaurants, and I'm eating here for complicated grief-related reasons. Assume the latter. Charge me the actual price you charge everybody else for food, treat me gently, make a convenient, comfy, cozy spot for me, and rely on me to tip enormously generously because I'm grateful to the waitstaff and the restaurant for being kind to me and not making me feel like a weird pariah?
posted by Don Pepino at 8:29 AM on August 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
Even so, I would not have a three-figure dinner by myself. What would you want that for, anyway?
My wife was out of town one week, so I ended up walking into Zahav and getting a seat at the bar, where I had their tasting menu. It was out of this world, and I still remember it fondly. That's why! If you don't want to do that, by all means don't, but maybe accept that some people like things you don't like, and that's OK.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:37 AM on August 14, 2023 [14 favorites]
My wife was out of town one week, so I ended up walking into Zahav and getting a seat at the bar, where I had their tasting menu. It was out of this world, and I still remember it fondly. That's why! If you don't want to do that, by all means don't, but maybe accept that some people like things you don't like, and that's OK.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:37 AM on August 14, 2023 [14 favorites]
When my wife is not able to join me, I'll grab a friend to eat with. This summer I've dined with J.R.R. Tolkein, J. Robert Oppenheimer, and yesterday Samual R. Delany.
posted by neuron at 8:45 AM on August 14, 2023 [19 favorites]
posted by neuron at 8:45 AM on August 14, 2023 [19 favorites]
no place to hang your things
A modern restaurant bar has purse hooks tucked under the bar surface itself.
Lately having my feet dangling seems to trigger an unpleasant drop in blood pressure for me, though. It's a real pain.
posted by praemunire at 9:00 AM on August 14, 2023
A modern restaurant bar has purse hooks tucked under the bar surface itself.
Lately having my feet dangling seems to trigger an unpleasant drop in blood pressure for me, though. It's a real pain.
posted by praemunire at 9:00 AM on August 14, 2023
It literally never occurred to me to feel ashamed or self-conscious about dining solo before I started reading articles about people judging such folks. I still couldn't care less, though. Then again, I'm a white male American so my privilege backpack may be deflecting any negativity sent my way.
I'm also always nice to the server/staff and I tip properly, so that might help too.
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:14 AM on August 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm also always nice to the server/staff and I tip properly, so that might help too.
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:14 AM on August 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
On another note, I don't go to a restaurant to have an "experience". I go because i want to eat dinner. Please stop trying to give me an "experience". I'm not interested.
This complaint is always bewildering to me because any dining is SOME kind of experience; even a roadside McDonald's has a visual and sonic environment that someone designed for a purpose. I have a friend who frequently makes this complaint but who clearly enjoys several very carefully designed and atmospheric restaurants, so I am never sure exactly what it was they are looking to find or avoid. I just let them pick the restaurant any time we hang out now. Which maybe was their angle all along...
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:18 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
This complaint is always bewildering to me because any dining is SOME kind of experience; even a roadside McDonald's has a visual and sonic environment that someone designed for a purpose. I have a friend who frequently makes this complaint but who clearly enjoys several very carefully designed and atmospheric restaurants, so I am never sure exactly what it was they are looking to find or avoid. I just let them pick the restaurant any time we hang out now. Which maybe was their angle all along...
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:18 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
I took it favorably, because I don't like an "experience" all the time - an experience always brings to my mind something where the waiter has been trained to try to make you have fun, a la cheap chain spots sometimes, or the food is "stunt-y" which, depending, can be a drag when you want to eat without being a "part" of whatever the restaurant's "deal" is. That sounds vague but I think some will know what I mean.
posted by tiny frying pan at 9:25 AM on August 14, 2023
posted by tiny frying pan at 9:25 AM on August 14, 2023
Bar seats are *high*. I seem to be having less trouble with them lately, but a seat about as high as your hip can be a challenge. I speak as a person with a 24" inseam.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 9:31 AM on August 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 9:31 AM on August 14, 2023 [6 favorites]
There are a lot of people who travel for business and who are alone simply for that reason. It may well work out that you can't arrange for a colleague or a client to join you every night, or you simply might want to catch up on things. Or you just might want some blessed alone time. Being able to write off a fancy meal as a business expense while travelling, even partly, can make it more affordable and it can be fun to try a local specialty if you can't get it in your home town. Lord knows I've done it more than once.
posted by bonehead at 9:40 AM on August 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 9:40 AM on August 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
my strongman assumption is that "experience" is a synonym for "pretentious". The more au courant manifestation of this for me are restaurants that specifically decorate themselves or setup dish plating for The 'Gram. I get it. Capitalism makes us all do terrible things. People loudly declaim that they "would rather collect experiences, than objects" so artsy restaurant selfies are their new vehicle for conspicuous consumption. And if you're a budding restaurant owner who needs to pay back the $1 million setup loan you got from the real estate investment trust to setup a posh little small plates place to drive up property values in this 'up-and-coming' neighborhood, you gotta do what gotta do to stay out of debt prison.
My solution for that is to just go back to the regular neighborhood pub or diner that still serves cocktails with drink prices in the single digits and menus that lack artisanal anything. Except now apparently those places are trending as "Ungrammable Hang Zones" by The Culture.
Because Capitalism makes us all do terrible things.
posted by bl1nk at 9:43 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
My solution for that is to just go back to the regular neighborhood pub or diner that still serves cocktails with drink prices in the single digits and menus that lack artisanal anything. Except now apparently those places are trending as "Ungrammable Hang Zones" by The Culture.
Because Capitalism makes us all do terrible things.
posted by bl1nk at 9:43 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
I used to like to go to DuParr's in Studio City at 2AM, by myself. Maybe I was a "loser" but I enjoyed listening to the Big Dreamers at other tables raving about their show-biz ideas, having a reasonably tasty burger, and the different connection you have with the wait staff. It's just more relaxed and personable. I miss it!
And now I gues DuParr's has turned into a Sephora? Sad!
posted by klanawa at 10:06 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
And now I gues DuParr's has turned into a Sephora? Sad!
posted by klanawa at 10:06 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
I only dine solo in restaurants that aren't super swamped/popular/packed (half full is probably more what you want) and thus don't care so much about a single taking up a table. Therefore, no fancy alone dining for me, but that's fine. I can get why the complaints exist about singles at tables in busy restaurants, I suppose. And mostly I'm just doing it because I'm out alone and not at home, not because I think it's fun to eat out solo in an actual restaurant.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:15 AM on August 14, 2023
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:15 AM on August 14, 2023
It literally never occurred to me to feel ashamed or self-conscious about dining solo before I started reading articles about people judging such folks. I still couldn't care less, though. Then again, I'm a white male American so my privilege backpack may be deflecting any negativity sent my way.
I've never perceived any shaming or negativity about eating alone (but I also have the white male American privilege, so...). Occasionally the waitstaff lets you know that you aren't a priority (like getting shunted off to the table next to the bathroom door) but that is rare and these days seems like it doesn't happen to me any more. I've had people in groups at other tables clearly feel sorry for me, but the only outcome of that is them being chatty which isn't a totally bad thing either except when you are trying to read.
posted by Dip Flash at 10:22 AM on August 14, 2023
I've never perceived any shaming or negativity about eating alone (but I also have the white male American privilege, so...). Occasionally the waitstaff lets you know that you aren't a priority (like getting shunted off to the table next to the bathroom door) but that is rare and these days seems like it doesn't happen to me any more. I've had people in groups at other tables clearly feel sorry for me, but the only outcome of that is them being chatty which isn't a totally bad thing either except when you are trying to read.
posted by Dip Flash at 10:22 AM on August 14, 2023
That said, everyone who is saying that solo people should sit at the bar possibly knows more comfortable bar seats than I - too high, feet dangling, no backs, a precarious perch with no place to hang your things. Ghastly.
Yes to all of these perceptions, and I will add that as a left-handed person, I always rub elbows with my fellow diners at a bar unless I am seated at the left end of the bar or next to another left-handed diner.
posted by virago at 10:33 AM on August 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Yes to all of these perceptions, and I will add that as a left-handed person, I always rub elbows with my fellow diners at a bar unless I am seated at the left end of the bar or next to another left-handed diner.
posted by virago at 10:33 AM on August 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
I went to é by José Andrés alone. It’s 20 courses at a 9 seat bar. It’s an experience similar to going to a theatre, with food as the medium for the performance art. You’d go to the regular theatre alone, food theatre should be no exception.
I chatted with all the other diners, solo and otherwise.
posted by shock muppet at 10:52 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
I chatted with all the other diners, solo and otherwise.
posted by shock muppet at 10:52 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Also, aren't many restaurant reviews written by single diners?
My understanding is that professional reviewers (e.g., Pete Wells at the NYT, Bill Addison at the LA Times) often dine in a group specifically so they can try multiple dishes.
You rang?
Most food media that publish actual reviews--don't get me started on restaurant "features" disguised as reviews--have clear rules to create a similar framework and context for all reviews.
My paper has a relatively small budget for restaurant criticism, so I go once, with at least one other person. If I opt to go alone, I have to visit more than once and try different dishes/drinks. Also, if the meal is poor, I have to go back again just to be sure.
Bigger outlets have bigger budgets that allow multiple visits with more people. If I could afford to bring more people on more meals, I would. I can't imagine writing about a restaurant based on a single, solo meal.
posted by yellowcandy at 10:57 AM on August 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
My understanding is that professional reviewers (e.g., Pete Wells at the NYT, Bill Addison at the LA Times) often dine in a group specifically so they can try multiple dishes.
You rang?
Most food media that publish actual reviews--don't get me started on restaurant "features" disguised as reviews--have clear rules to create a similar framework and context for all reviews.
My paper has a relatively small budget for restaurant criticism, so I go once, with at least one other person. If I opt to go alone, I have to visit more than once and try different dishes/drinks. Also, if the meal is poor, I have to go back again just to be sure.
Bigger outlets have bigger budgets that allow multiple visits with more people. If I could afford to bring more people on more meals, I would. I can't imagine writing about a restaurant based on a single, solo meal.
posted by yellowcandy at 10:57 AM on August 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
I routinely dine solo in Michelin starred restaurants while traveling for work. I've never been judged or treated any differently than when I've been with my wife or a larger group, because a good chunk of what you're paying for is service. I feel like most have been enthusiastically welcoming since they know I'm there for the food or experience and not to impress anyone. I've had several conversations with the chefs that probably wouldn't have happened if I'd been with a group.
For restaurants that I'm likely to just walk into I usually try to do research and see if there's bar seating available so I don't take a 2 top from another guest. It's actually pretty frustrating when that information isn't readily available since that's what I prefer to do when I'm not sitting down for a tasting menu.
If you feel like you're being judged for eating solo, it's not you, it's the restaurant. If the restaurant wants to charge you more for eating solo, don't go there. It's their fault for not working out seating arrangements for the odd solo guest ahead of time. If you want to go anyway, make sure you get both meals that you're paying for.
Don't deprive yourself of things just because you don't have a friend to take somewhere. Restaurants, concerts, movies, if your best option is to go alone, just do it.
posted by mikesch at 11:00 AM on August 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
For restaurants that I'm likely to just walk into I usually try to do research and see if there's bar seating available so I don't take a 2 top from another guest. It's actually pretty frustrating when that information isn't readily available since that's what I prefer to do when I'm not sitting down for a tasting menu.
If you feel like you're being judged for eating solo, it's not you, it's the restaurant. If the restaurant wants to charge you more for eating solo, don't go there. It's their fault for not working out seating arrangements for the odd solo guest ahead of time. If you want to go anyway, make sure you get both meals that you're paying for.
Don't deprive yourself of things just because you don't have a friend to take somewhere. Restaurants, concerts, movies, if your best option is to go alone, just do it.
posted by mikesch at 11:00 AM on August 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
There’s a Himalayan restaurant near me, in a low ceilinged basement, that not only ushered me and my books to a clever little one-top in a niche but brought me an extra light to read by.
posted by clew at 11:21 AM on August 14, 2023 [16 favorites]
posted by clew at 11:21 AM on August 14, 2023 [16 favorites]
clew, what a great idea to have lights for readers!
I say "Table for one", not "Just one" even though the later is still a temptation.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 11:24 AM on August 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
I say "Table for one", not "Just one" even though the later is still a temptation.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 11:24 AM on August 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
Last year when I was visiting Japan we met up with some friends to see the Daimonji festival and the plan was to find somewhere to eat first and then go but as we were looking for a suitable restaurant it started to rain really hard and so we just went to the closest thing we could find which was a noodle restaurant that incidentally had a Michelin star. I don't think I've ever been to a starred restaurant before and I don't think my friends had either and our group was 4 adults and 4 young kids so my friends made sure with the staff that it would be OK and they said it was so we went in, ordered pretty much the cheapest noodles on the menu, and waited out the rain. It was a tiny restaurant so there was our group, maybe 1 or 2 couples and a woman who was there by herself. She looked like she was at least in her 50s and was all dressed up. She was talking with the staff, and looked like she was having a great meal. I idly wondered what her story was, and really it could be anything, but I thought it was pretty neat that she was there enjoying herself and hope that our group didn't disturb her evening.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:49 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:49 AM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Netflix offers different plans with different prices based on how many active connections you want to be allowed to have. They no longer have a single connection tier in Canada, but they do have two and four connection tiers.
You're wrong. Netflix offers different plans with different prices based on how many active connections you want to be allowed to have within the same household. Looking at their site right now, it says, "Only people who live with you may use your account. Add 1 extra member with Standard or up to 2 with Premium."
So essentially, there is no singles plan (and never has been) and there is no doubles or more plan unless you live together. The base price includes 2 people who live together and singles subsidize this.
Imagine: Live alone? Sorry, your electric bill will be based on as if two lived there. Trying to buy just enough groceries for one? Nuh uh! Here's twice as much as one person can eat before everything goes bad... etc. It's absolutely bullshit.
In short, Netflix (and the stupid restaurant in the OP) can go fuck itself.
posted by dobbs at 12:04 PM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
You're wrong. Netflix offers different plans with different prices based on how many active connections you want to be allowed to have within the same household. Looking at their site right now, it says, "Only people who live with you may use your account. Add 1 extra member with Standard or up to 2 with Premium."
So essentially, there is no singles plan (and never has been) and there is no doubles or more plan unless you live together. The base price includes 2 people who live together and singles subsidize this.
Imagine: Live alone? Sorry, your electric bill will be based on as if two lived there. Trying to buy just enough groceries for one? Nuh uh! Here's twice as much as one person can eat before everything goes bad... etc. It's absolutely bullshit.
In short, Netflix (and the stupid restaurant in the OP) can go fuck itself.
posted by dobbs at 12:04 PM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Usually when I eat alone it's because I want to eat at a restaurant that doesn't cater well to vegetarians, as I want my spouse to be able to have reasonable choices when we go out together. She's traveling now and I specifically planned to eat at a couple places that are meat-dominant. I've been looking forward to it for weeks.
I had a waiter friend tell me once that I shouldn't worry about eating alone because waiters like solo diners; they're easy to serve and usually aren't hugely demanding. I don't often eat for two but I sometimes tip for two if the restaurant isn't very busy.
posted by dlugoczaj at 12:16 PM on August 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
I had a waiter friend tell me once that I shouldn't worry about eating alone because waiters like solo diners; they're easy to serve and usually aren't hugely demanding. I don't often eat for two but I sometimes tip for two if the restaurant isn't very busy.
posted by dlugoczaj at 12:16 PM on August 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
(*) - Just putting it out there that dim sum solo is kind of aberrant and it's much more a dining modality for groups.
Well yes, dim sum does work much better in a group, but I still want to eat my own weight in turnip cakes even when there's only one of me. If the choice is between enacting an aberrant dining modality or not being able to have paper-wrapped prawns for six months until I can get a group together who all like dim sum more than all the other possible options, I'll be a freak every time.
posted by Shark Hat at 12:16 PM on August 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
Well yes, dim sum does work much better in a group, but I still want to eat my own weight in turnip cakes even when there's only one of me. If the choice is between enacting an aberrant dining modality or not being able to have paper-wrapped prawns for six months until I can get a group together who all like dim sum more than all the other possible options, I'll be a freak every time.
posted by Shark Hat at 12:16 PM on August 14, 2023 [7 favorites]
We were having dinner at a fancier Disney World resort restaurant some years ago, and my kids noticed that a solo diner at a table behind us had a doll (or two, maybe?) propped up opposite him complete with silverware and a drink.
I never figured out the guy's story, but I liked to think that they had a good meal in a nice atmosphere with decent service.
At least he wouldn't have had to fight over who go the left-overs for lunch the next day.
posted by wenestvedt at 1:03 PM on August 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
I never figured out the guy's story, but I liked to think that they had a good meal in a nice atmosphere with decent service.
At least he wouldn't have had to fight over who go the left-overs for lunch the next day.
posted by wenestvedt at 1:03 PM on August 14, 2023 [5 favorites]
So essentially, there is no singles plan (and never has been) and there is no doubles or more plan unless you live together.
Until earlier this year, they offered Netflix Basic which was a single stream at a time. They don't offer it to new customers in Canada anymore, but I'm still subscribed to it because it was my existing plan.
posted by jacquilynne at 3:32 PM on August 14, 2023
Until earlier this year, they offered Netflix Basic which was a single stream at a time. They don't offer it to new customers in Canada anymore, but I'm still subscribed to it because it was my existing plan.
posted by jacquilynne at 3:32 PM on August 14, 2023
I'm single by choice. I prefer being alone to being around other people.
posted by mike3k at 3:33 PM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by mike3k at 3:33 PM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
I don’t patronize McDonalds because I personally find their business model and food to be monumentally irresponsible.
But, the masses buy what McDonalds has on offer. My opinion is unpopular (at least in the town I live in) and I’m routinely chided for it if I happen to frame it as a complaint around anyone who disagrees.
The same logic applies to the solo-diner unfriendly restaurants. If you don’t agree with it, don’t dine there. There are options for solo friendly diners everywhere. Complaining about it is futile.
Every weakness is an opportunity for someone else. Spend your money at restaurants optimized for solo dining. It will send a clear message that there is a market for such things.
posted by WorkshopGuyPNW at 6:12 PM on August 14, 2023
But, the masses buy what McDonalds has on offer. My opinion is unpopular (at least in the town I live in) and I’m routinely chided for it if I happen to frame it as a complaint around anyone who disagrees.
The same logic applies to the solo-diner unfriendly restaurants. If you don’t agree with it, don’t dine there. There are options for solo friendly diners everywhere. Complaining about it is futile.
Every weakness is an opportunity for someone else. Spend your money at restaurants optimized for solo dining. It will send a clear message that there is a market for such things.
posted by WorkshopGuyPNW at 6:12 PM on August 14, 2023
And/or...let lone diner unfriendly places know their policy is silly or they made you feel unwelcome and you won't be back. Places can change, kind feedback is important.
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:38 PM on August 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:38 PM on August 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Good lord, some of you couldn’t find your way to a nice evening with both hands and a flashlight.
I am a woman with advanced resting bitch face who traveled for work and ate alone for years. I still eat alone whenever I get the chance - most recently last week on Cape Cod, twice. Solo dining is insanely relaxing. Nobody is paying you any mind. Any baggage you bring to the solo dining experience is your own deal.
posted by cakelite at 8:11 PM on August 14, 2023 [24 favorites]
I am a woman with advanced resting bitch face who traveled for work and ate alone for years. I still eat alone whenever I get the chance - most recently last week on Cape Cod, twice. Solo dining is insanely relaxing. Nobody is paying you any mind. Any baggage you bring to the solo dining experience is your own deal.
posted by cakelite at 8:11 PM on August 14, 2023 [24 favorites]
There’s a Himalayan restaurant near me, in a low ceilinged basement, that not only ushered me and my books to a clever little one-top in a niche but brought me an extra light to read by.
That's funny; I think I know the place you're talking about, and when I went there alone with my book, they acted like I was the saddest person in the world. 😄
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 9:08 PM on August 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
That's funny; I think I know the place you're talking about, and when I went there alone with my book, they acted like I was the saddest person in the world. 😄
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 9:08 PM on August 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
I expect I look like a book is the best I can do.
posted by clew at 12:55 AM on August 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by clew at 12:55 AM on August 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
I eat out alone, and go to the movies alone, and hike alone, etc. I also do all these things with others, but sometimes the thing I want to do is the main point, and I'm not fussed about herding company into it.
Things are generally cheaper when you're dividing things among a group, but that assumption also gets taken to extremes. The place I work offers services that are income tested based on a household limit, so if you have multiple incomes in the same household, people who would be eligible separately aren't as a group. While this makes sense to some extent, the bigger your household is, the smaller the increase in the threshold per person. So a single person making 35,000 is eligible, but a household of 10 that makes 100,000 is not. And c'mon, economies of scale aren't that economical...
posted by the primroses were over at 5:42 AM on August 15, 2023
Things are generally cheaper when you're dividing things among a group, but that assumption also gets taken to extremes. The place I work offers services that are income tested based on a household limit, so if you have multiple incomes in the same household, people who would be eligible separately aren't as a group. While this makes sense to some extent, the bigger your household is, the smaller the increase in the threshold per person. So a single person making 35,000 is eligible, but a household of 10 that makes 100,000 is not. And c'mon, economies of scale aren't that economical...
posted by the primroses were over at 5:42 AM on August 15, 2023
I eat out by myself all the time.
If I walk into a place, am told that the only option is the bar, can see for myself that this is so I'll sit there if there's a place on the end.
If there IS an available table I prefer to be there because I come to restaurants to eat, not to be creeped on.
I get asked all the time by maître d's if I want to sit at the bar and I think that this should be for ME to tell THEM
There have been several times where I've made a reservation, had to leave a deposit on a credit card, told I would lose the reservation if I arrived x minutes late and the place still tried to seat me at the bar.
A lot of places that use reservation sites: i.e. resy and open table don't have the single diner option...what I've done is make the reservation for 2 and tell them that my other party couldn't make it.
Places that discourage single female diners are making it clear that they don't think women should be financially independent.
posted by brujita at 7:24 AM on August 15, 2023 [8 favorites]
If I walk into a place, am told that the only option is the bar, can see for myself that this is so I'll sit there if there's a place on the end.
If there IS an available table I prefer to be there because I come to restaurants to eat, not to be creeped on.
I get asked all the time by maître d's if I want to sit at the bar and I think that this should be for ME to tell THEM
There have been several times where I've made a reservation, had to leave a deposit on a credit card, told I would lose the reservation if I arrived x minutes late and the place still tried to seat me at the bar.
A lot of places that use reservation sites: i.e. resy and open table don't have the single diner option...what I've done is make the reservation for 2 and tell them that my other party couldn't make it.
Places that discourage single female diners are making it clear that they don't think women should be financially independent.
posted by brujita at 7:24 AM on August 15, 2023 [8 favorites]
I get asked all the time by maître d's if I want to sit at the bar and I think that this should be for ME to tell THEM
I'm sure it is just confirmation bias, but it feels like I get the reverse all the time. If I show up and say it is just me, they will give me a table unless I specifically request the bar. I notice it just because I strongly prefer the bar seating, so I end up having the extra bit of conversation a lot. I've learned to make it part of my original request when I walk in -- It's just me for dinner, do you have seating at the bar? -- all as one statement.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:08 AM on August 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm sure it is just confirmation bias, but it feels like I get the reverse all the time. If I show up and say it is just me, they will give me a table unless I specifically request the bar. I notice it just because I strongly prefer the bar seating, so I end up having the extra bit of conversation a lot. I've learned to make it part of my original request when I walk in -- It's just me for dinner, do you have seating at the bar? -- all as one statement.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:08 AM on August 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
I make it clear when I walk in that it's just me.
There have also been too many times that I've been seated and then proceeded to be ignored because the wait person "thought I was waiting for someone" and didn't bother to ask me.
posted by brujita at 8:33 AM on August 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
There have also been too many times that I've been seated and then proceeded to be ignored because the wait person "thought I was waiting for someone" and didn't bother to ask me.
posted by brujita at 8:33 AM on August 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
I spent a while going into Manhattan for an evening class that was timed such that if I wanted a sit-down dinner I had to walk in the second most restaurants open. I was quite up front about being alone and my timing constraints and found that I was soon treated as an eccentric but welcome regular. I expect it helped that I tipped well and dropped occasional comments that I was not at all bothered if they kept on with whatever their pre-rush prep was, so the entire staff did not have to hover over the only customer in the place. If they judged or pitied me either I am bad at reading such things (possible) or they had the self-control to save the gossip until after I left.
posted by Karmakaze at 10:11 AM on August 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Karmakaze at 10:11 AM on August 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
There are a lot of people who travel for business and who are alone simply for that reason. It may well work out that you can't arrange for a colleague or a client to join you every night, or you simply might want to catch up on things. Or you just might want some blessed alone time.
My final full-time job had me on the road for basically 15-20% of my time. If there were friends or family in whatever place I was in, I would see if I could connect with them; if not, was I supposed to go hungry, or maybe eat a microwaved pizza pocket on the edge of my bed? Of course I ate more than a few meals on my own. The alternative seemed foolish.
As for ill-treatment from servers or the like, either I never encountered this or I am oblivious. I wasn’t chasing down Michelin-starred restaurants or anything; maybe the treatment is more easygoing at a family-owned fish and chips place.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:31 PM on August 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
My final full-time job had me on the road for basically 15-20% of my time. If there were friends or family in whatever place I was in, I would see if I could connect with them; if not, was I supposed to go hungry, or maybe eat a microwaved pizza pocket on the edge of my bed? Of course I ate more than a few meals on my own. The alternative seemed foolish.
As for ill-treatment from servers or the like, either I never encountered this or I am oblivious. I wasn’t chasing down Michelin-starred restaurants or anything; maybe the treatment is more easygoing at a family-owned fish and chips place.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:31 PM on August 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
I've been ignored after I've been seated at all sorts of places: from diner to reservation encouraged.
posted by brujita at 7:51 AM on August 18, 2023
posted by brujita at 7:51 AM on August 18, 2023
I would begrudge the tasting menu place that charges solo diners double a hell of a lot less if they actually provided a second portion of food to take home (for things that are take home-able at least). Absent any indication that's the case, it just sounds like they're being assholes imo.
posted by juv3nal at 8:29 PM on August 19, 2023
posted by juv3nal at 8:29 PM on August 19, 2023
To be clear, there is still *some* begrudging. What would be equitable imo would be to be given the option of the second portion or for the surcharge to be equal to their average *margin* per diner if they decline it. Edit: also have their reservation taking system help match up solo diners who don't mind sharing a table.
posted by juv3nal at 8:55 PM on August 19, 2023
posted by juv3nal at 8:55 PM on August 19, 2023
« Older Scientists are decoding saltwater crocodile talk | Spaghettieis is the way to a Free Thread Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:32 AM on August 14, 2023 [10 favorites]