Wheelwright respect
October 13, 2023 2:28 PM Subscribe
The surprisingly complex development of the stone-age wooden wheel, from the POV of a woodworker. [YT, 22min] The framing device of the exploration is addressing the question, "Why didn't they use wheels to move stones when building the pyramids?" but the video is not really about pyramid theories/stuff.
That's what Time/Life books taught me.
lol - you just brought back years of my childhood.
posted by Silvery Fish at 2:56 PM on October 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
lol - you just brought back years of my childhood.
posted by Silvery Fish at 2:56 PM on October 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
I first encountered the idea that the spoked wheel was a feat of advanced engineering and craftsmanship in The Horse, the Wheel, and Language, which promptly ruined the Hitchhiker's Guide jokes about telephone sanitizers being too stupid to invent the thing. I mean, I couldn't invent the thing!
My understanding of early human technology tended to be "Stone Age to Bronze Age to Iron Age," with writing and the plow as the other major advances. This is so wrong; the history of the neolithic revolution alone is just one innovation after another.
posted by mark k at 3:20 PM on October 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
My understanding of early human technology tended to be "Stone Age to Bronze Age to Iron Age," with writing and the plow as the other major advances. This is so wrong; the history of the neolithic revolution alone is just one innovation after another.
posted by mark k at 3:20 PM on October 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
why it took 200,000 years to invent the wheel
I always we shouldn't "reinvent the wheel" because it was so simple and we should spend our time on more complex things. But no, it turns out the wheel was pretty hard to makeposted by pwnguin at 3:22 PM on October 13, 2023
Mideast Wheel Expert Richard Bulliet has a lot of related thoughts on the matter in his World History lectures.
Lecture 3 - He discusses the concept of energy profiles, culminating with introducing the discussion on wheels.
Lecture 4 - contains the main discussion on wheels
At issue are questions such as:
1) Why would a people invent the concept of wheels but not use them?
2) What did early wheels consist of?
3) How does a tree-poor environment affect the adoption of wheels?
4) Which came first, the wheel or the road?
5) How big (and heavy) does a wheel need to be to function on uneven ground?
posted by I-Write-Essays at 3:25 PM on October 13, 2023
Lecture 3 - He discusses the concept of energy profiles, culminating with introducing the discussion on wheels.
Lecture 4 - contains the main discussion on wheels
At issue are questions such as:
1) Why would a people invent the concept of wheels but not use them?
2) What did early wheels consist of?
3) How does a tree-poor environment affect the adoption of wheels?
4) Which came first, the wheel or the road?
5) How big (and heavy) does a wheel need to be to function on uneven ground?
posted by I-Write-Essays at 3:25 PM on October 13, 2023
Why would a people invent the concept of wheels but not use them?
As a software developer with many, many years of experience, welcome to my entire life
posted by bigbigdog at 5:45 PM on October 13, 2023 [16 favorites]
As a software developer with many, many years of experience, welcome to my entire life
posted by bigbigdog at 5:45 PM on October 13, 2023 [16 favorites]
I really liked this explanation of the evolution of the wheel. When he got to the part about angling the spokes my mind went straight to a bicycle wheel and all of its angled spokes.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 6:20 PM on October 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 6:20 PM on October 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
I read something recently to the effect that wheels on vehicles followed potters’ wheels by quite some time. That must have been a sizeable conceptual leap. “Hey… I have a weird idea. Hear me out…”
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:41 PM on October 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:41 PM on October 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
My dog, 6 months or so ago chewed the top bindings off my nearly complete set of 70's Time/Life books. Still harboring bad feelings towards her for that...
My favorite, "The Sea" wasn't with the rest of them though. Hope it's packed away in a box somewhere. The cool fold-out page that showed who lived at what depths was just the best. And the scary whale eye close-up near the back of the book.
Wheels are pretty crazy as well I guess...
posted by Windopaene at 7:14 PM on October 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
My favorite, "The Sea" wasn't with the rest of them though. Hope it's packed away in a box somewhere. The cool fold-out page that showed who lived at what depths was just the best. And the scary whale eye close-up near the back of the book.
Wheels are pretty crazy as well I guess...
posted by Windopaene at 7:14 PM on October 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
Having now watched the video, I will say every depiction of "moving big stones in ancient construction" has never been shown using wheels, per se, but was often depicted using logs, or some other round rolling base upon which the big heavy object could be dragged more easily than bare ground. This would be a situation wherein the logs would be moved from behind the object to the front as it rolled forward, so was labor intensive for carrying the rollers but probably less so than dragging across flat ground.
posted by hippybear at 7:15 PM on October 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 7:15 PM on October 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
Yeah, you'd think once they were using logs like that, someone would have thought, "if we hollowed those out a bit, they would weigh less" would have come to mind. But probably just the slaves hauling the rocks and moving the logs so...
Or they tried it, they didn't quite get the spokes concept, the logs failed, and someone else said, "see, I told you that was a bad idea", and everyone else just agreed with that assessment.
posted by Windopaene at 7:23 PM on October 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Or they tried it, they didn't quite get the spokes concept, the logs failed, and someone else said, "see, I told you that was a bad idea", and everyone else just agreed with that assessment.
posted by Windopaene at 7:23 PM on October 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm a minute into the video, but the 'hwheal' pronunciation is getting to me. Is that a regional thing?
posted by ockmockbock at 7:27 PM on October 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by ockmockbock at 7:27 PM on October 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Hwhat are you talking about?
posted by hippybear at 7:31 PM on October 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 7:31 PM on October 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
Yes, it's regional, rather Midwest US if I'm not wrong. The "H" is Wh hasn't always been, and remains not always, a silent letter. It's very Anglo-saxon; Beowulf begins with the exclamation "HWÆT!"
> But probably just the slaves hauling the rocks and moving the logs so...
Better note that if we're still in the context of building the pyramids, those workers weren't slaves. I believe it was more like a labor tax.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 7:31 PM on October 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
> But probably just the slaves hauling the rocks and moving the logs so...
Better note that if we're still in the context of building the pyramids, those workers weren't slaves. I believe it was more like a labor tax.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 7:31 PM on October 13, 2023 [7 favorites]
I've had the privilege of seeing the Ljubljana wheel first-hand and the cross-bracing is not affixed by mechanical means as depicted in the video but rather by pretty impressive tapered sliding dovetails. It's also interesting that the axle was fixed to the wheel meaning the bearing surface requiring lubrication would be inboard of the wheel and presumably replaceable.
As part of trailbuilding work I have led small groups of volunteers in moving stones weighing well over a ton on uneven terrain and wheels would never have made that work easier, at least without cranes to lift the stone over the axle. We use rock bars laid in parallel and end-to-end to serve as rails and glide the rocks along them. It's a surprisingly efficient method.
posted by St. Oops at 8:09 PM on October 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
As part of trailbuilding work I have led small groups of volunteers in moving stones weighing well over a ton on uneven terrain and wheels would never have made that work easier, at least without cranes to lift the stone over the axle. We use rock bars laid in parallel and end-to-end to serve as rails and glide the rocks along them. It's a surprisingly efficient method.
posted by St. Oops at 8:09 PM on October 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
Thor might disagree with you about wheel invention.
Cool stuff, thanks for posting!
posted by ashbury at 8:12 PM on October 13, 2023
Cool stuff, thanks for posting!
posted by ashbury at 8:12 PM on October 13, 2023
Yeah, you'd think once they were using logs like that, someone would have thought, "if we hollowed those out a bit, they would weigh less" would have come to mind. But probably just the slaves hauling the rocks and moving the logs so...
Point of the video is that does not work! Hollow them out and you don't have wheels, you have splinters.
It also answers a question my father asked in a museum when I was a kid, why some cultures that had wheels on toys never used them for productive work. Turns out that it wasn't that they just didn't think of it! Same basic problem with turning a potter's wheel on its side and trying to use it to transport something. If I go back in time and tell them to try that, the early Bronze Age colleagues will laugh at me, but not because I am a Galileo like visionary, but because they tried it already and it doesn't help.
posted by mark k at 9:05 PM on October 13, 2023
Point of the video is that does not work! Hollow them out and you don't have wheels, you have splinters.
It also answers a question my father asked in a museum when I was a kid, why some cultures that had wheels on toys never used them for productive work. Turns out that it wasn't that they just didn't think of it! Same basic problem with turning a potter's wheel on its side and trying to use it to transport something. If I go back in time and tell them to try that, the early Bronze Age colleagues will laugh at me, but not because I am a Galileo like visionary, but because they tried it already and it doesn't help.
posted by mark k at 9:05 PM on October 13, 2023
It's worth following up Dave Engel of Engel Coach Shop in Joliet MT: the wheelwright cited at the end of the video. Here they're making [14m] a pair of replica 1790 French cannon wheels: felloe, spoke, nave, strake, hub-band, mandrel, anvil, axel
posted by BobTheScientist at 1:28 AM on October 14, 2023
posted by BobTheScientist at 1:28 AM on October 14, 2023
It took longer to invent the wheel because the axle (i.e. log) gets you 90% of the way there in many cases.
posted by grog at 6:28 AM on October 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by grog at 6:28 AM on October 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
That was really well presented. Thanks for posting.
There's a woodworker who goes by Orson Cart currently working on a replica Travellers wagon called a vardo. There's soooooo much more to it than I imagined. In a recent post, he was pointing out that an added benefit of canted wheels (mentioned in the vid) is that they tend to throw mud and debris away from the passengers.
This same woodworker creates amazing copies of (mostly) English furnishings from about 1680 to 1820. His build blogs aren't “follow along” beginner stuff or the sort of joinery porn garbage you see on IG - it's the opposite: really pithy process descriptions with a ton of fascinating social history wrapped into them. Well worth diving into.
posted by brachiopod at 6:37 AM on October 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
There's a woodworker who goes by Orson Cart currently working on a replica Travellers wagon called a vardo. There's soooooo much more to it than I imagined. In a recent post, he was pointing out that an added benefit of canted wheels (mentioned in the vid) is that they tend to throw mud and debris away from the passengers.
This same woodworker creates amazing copies of (mostly) English furnishings from about 1680 to 1820. His build blogs aren't “follow along” beginner stuff or the sort of joinery porn garbage you see on IG - it's the opposite: really pithy process descriptions with a ton of fascinating social history wrapped into them. Well worth diving into.
posted by brachiopod at 6:37 AM on October 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
« Older “It’s not really folk, but it’s sort of like… that... | The Whole Earth, in its entirety Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by hippybear at 2:32 PM on October 13, 2023 [17 favorites]