No, not that kind of Python and Pandas
October 19, 2023 8:56 AM Subscribe
The Facebook algorithm thought programming instructor Reuven Lerner was advertising live animals instead of courses on Python coding and the Pandas data science library. "I didn’t quite know what to do, but there was a button marked, “Click here to appeal.” So I clicked it, assuming that someone at Meta would reach out to me, saying, “Whoops!” Nope: About 30 minutes later, I got e-mail from Meta saying that they had reviewed my case, I had definitely violated their policy, and now I was banned for life from ever advertising on a Meta platform."
The automated message accused Lerner of not complying with their advertising policies, such as having too many ads rejected, attempting to circumvent their ad review process, participating in fraudulent behavior, or associating with untrustworthy accounts. "Further violations of our Advertising Standards may result in your account being disabled or restricted."
The automated message accused Lerner of not complying with their advertising policies, such as having too many ads rejected, attempting to circumvent their ad review process, participating in fraudulent behavior, or associating with untrustworthy accounts. "Further violations of our Advertising Standards may result in your account being disabled or restricted."
Wow, that story goes from bad to almost comically dystopian in a hurry.
posted by jedicus at 9:03 AM on October 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by jedicus at 9:03 AM on October 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
"We used technology to detect this violation and technology to carry out this decision."
I like how when it's for something they want to excite investors with tech companies call it "AI" and when it's for something unpopular they call it "technology."
posted by AlSweigart at 9:03 AM on October 19, 2023 [53 favorites]
I like how when it's for something they want to excite investors with tech companies call it "AI" and when it's for something unpopular they call it "technology."
posted by AlSweigart at 9:03 AM on October 19, 2023 [53 favorites]
It's not just ads. A friend is currently traveling back and forth between NYC and South Carolina a lot dealing with a parents' house sale, and recently posted a sort of get-a-load-of-this-thing type of post, with a picture he took at someone's yard sale - they had a pile of shotguns sitting next to a couple Bibles or something. His caption was something generic like "tag sale down the street from me" or something like that.
His post got taken down for "promoting the sale of guns".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:23 AM on October 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
His post got taken down for "promoting the sale of guns".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:23 AM on October 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
Computer says no.
The machine will now decide your fate.
posted by Foosnark at 9:25 AM on October 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
The machine will now decide your fate.
posted by Foosnark at 9:25 AM on October 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
His post got taken down for "promoting the sale of guns".
And yet the posting Facebook continues to show me, despite me flagging it, to entice me into shopping on Marketplace is a lined up pile of rifles, titled "GOLF CLUBS FOR SALE."
posted by AzraelBrown at 9:29 AM on October 19, 2023 [14 favorites]
And yet the posting Facebook continues to show me, despite me flagging it, to entice me into shopping on Marketplace is a lined up pile of rifles, titled "GOLF CLUBS FOR SALE."
posted by AzraelBrown at 9:29 AM on October 19, 2023 [14 favorites]
That explains my difficulty in promoting my software suite "Bags of Cocaine".
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 9:30 AM on October 19, 2023 [53 favorites]
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 9:30 AM on October 19, 2023 [53 favorites]
So in other words, the "technology" already thought Lerner was selling exotic animals, which is illegal, but was happy to leave the ads up until someone reported them.
posted by subdee at 9:41 AM on October 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by subdee at 9:41 AM on October 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
"Computers Don't Argue" by Gordon Dickson
A man gets involved about receiving a copy of Kidnapped that he doesn't want, and ends up executed for having kidnapped Robert Lous Stevenson. This is a very simplified summary.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 9:43 AM on October 19, 2023 [10 favorites]
A man gets involved about receiving a copy of Kidnapped that he doesn't want, and ends up executed for having kidnapped Robert Lous Stevenson. This is a very simplified summary.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 9:43 AM on October 19, 2023 [10 favorites]
Max Headroom, Season 2, Episode 7 - "Lessons"
"Who decides?" "The computer decides." (40m 45s in on Archive)
Something something cyberpunk dystopia.
posted by AlSweigart at 9:46 AM on October 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
"Who decides?" "The computer decides." (40m 45s in on Archive)
Something something cyberpunk dystopia.
posted by AlSweigart at 9:46 AM on October 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
A couple of years ago, I discovered a Facebook page for a literal neo-Nazi metal band.
It read pretty clearly as "just" a bunch of Midwestern teenagers being edgy, but it wasn't remotely subtle. Pictures of the band wearing SS uniforms, with swastika banners on the wall. SS runes. Posts praising Hitler and saying (mostly incoherent) things about Jews.
I reported it, and asked my Facebook friends to do the same. Facebook didn't take it down.
I found every "official" Facebook page that I could, and posted on each one to ask why Facebook was refusing to remove explicit neo-Nazi content from their platform. I never got any response.
I checked months latwr, and the content was still there.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 9:55 AM on October 19, 2023 [15 favorites]
It read pretty clearly as "just" a bunch of Midwestern teenagers being edgy, but it wasn't remotely subtle. Pictures of the band wearing SS uniforms, with swastika banners on the wall. SS runes. Posts praising Hitler and saying (mostly incoherent) things about Jews.
I reported it, and asked my Facebook friends to do the same. Facebook didn't take it down.
I found every "official" Facebook page that I could, and posted on each one to ask why Facebook was refusing to remove explicit neo-Nazi content from their platform. I never got any response.
I checked months latwr, and the content was still there.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 9:55 AM on October 19, 2023 [15 favorites]
Facebook has, in it's infinite wisdom, nuked a 5000+ member community I belonged to, which discussed the works of an author of mystery novels. Nobody knows why, and Facebook isn't saying.
posted by PussKillian at 10:02 AM on October 19, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by PussKillian at 10:02 AM on October 19, 2023 [7 favorites]
Preaching to the choir there… but… if you care about your content self host and link to it on social media. It’s super annoying, it costs a bit of money but you’re safe from those decisions.
They got in because most likely, the FB group for parents of kids that are in the same year as your kid at your school was never gonna exist as a stand-alone forum and that’s how you get almost forced to be on FB. But for business or large groups it better to not rely on them.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 10:18 AM on October 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
They got in because most likely, the FB group for parents of kids that are in the same year as your kid at your school was never gonna exist as a stand-alone forum and that’s how you get almost forced to be on FB. But for business or large groups it better to not rely on them.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 10:18 AM on October 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
if you care about your content self host and link to it on social media
Doesn't really solve a problem if you're post on said media is flagged and taken down.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 10:22 AM on October 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
Doesn't really solve a problem if you're post on said media is flagged and taken down.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 10:22 AM on October 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
A couple of years ago, I discovered a Facebook page for a literal neo-Nazi metal band.[...] reported it, and asked my Facebook friends to do the same. Facebook didn't take it down.
Memail me the name of the band or post it in here. I have a weird sort of superpower that gets Persons In Vaguely Bureaucratic Authority Positions to actually respond when I complain about or request stuff.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:35 AM on October 19, 2023 [11 favorites]
Memail me the name of the band or post it in here. I have a weird sort of superpower that gets Persons In Vaguely Bureaucratic Authority Positions to actually respond when I complain about or request stuff.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:35 AM on October 19, 2023 [11 favorites]
Reminds me of the time I posted a craigslist ad looking for my lost journal of a particular brand, and someone replied with this:
Your arrogance is astounding . You lost your moleskin notebook???? A God damn mole lost his fuckin skin .
posted by HeroZero at 10:36 AM on October 19, 2023 [46 favorites]
Your arrogance is astounding . You lost your moleskin notebook???? A God damn mole lost his fuckin skin .
posted by HeroZero at 10:36 AM on October 19, 2023 [46 favorites]
I just had Amazon reject a review because I mentioned the product was missing adhesive on it. They said they wouldn't post it because comments about packaging aren't allowed. Not that I haven't seen comments on how items arrived...
posted by kathrynm at 10:57 AM on October 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by kathrynm at 10:57 AM on October 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
A just machine to make big decisions
Programmed by fellows with compassion and vision
We'll be clean when their work is done
We'll be eternally free, yes, and eternally young
-- Donald Fagan, I.G.Y.
posted by gauche at 10:58 AM on October 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
Programmed by fellows with compassion and vision
We'll be clean when their work is done
We'll be eternally free, yes, and eternally young
-- Donald Fagan, I.G.Y.
posted by gauche at 10:58 AM on October 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
But will Facebook ban this discussion of Python?
posted by drewbage1847 at 11:00 AM on October 19, 2023
posted by drewbage1847 at 11:00 AM on October 19, 2023
PussKillian: Facebook has, in it's infinite wisdom, nuked a 5000+ member community I belonged to, which discussed the works of an author of mystery novels. Nobody knows why, and Facebook isn't saying.
AI saw that you like mystery, I guess.
posted by dr_dank at 11:01 AM on October 19, 2023 [13 favorites]
AI saw that you like mystery, I guess.
posted by dr_dank at 11:01 AM on October 19, 2023 [13 favorites]
Doesn't really solve a problem if you're post on said media is flagged and taken down
You may still link to it on other media, can be bookmarked, can still send emails with links, etc… it’ll still be an annoyance but you won’t drop off the face of the earth like what happens if FB decides to wipe your group/page.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 11:03 AM on October 19, 2023 [6 favorites]
You may still link to it on other media, can be bookmarked, can still send emails with links, etc… it’ll still be an annoyance but you won’t drop off the face of the earth like what happens if FB decides to wipe your group/page.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 11:03 AM on October 19, 2023 [6 favorites]
Read the title and assumed this post must be about wildlife not computing. Says a lot about me, really
posted by Going To Maine at 11:56 AM on October 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Going To Maine at 11:56 AM on October 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
zamboni: *angrily taps the sign again*
It was updated.
posted by k3ninho at 1:04 PM on October 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
It was updated.
posted by k3ninho at 1:04 PM on October 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Going To Maine: Read the title and assumed this post must be about wildlife not computing.
To each their baggage. For me: PANDAS Pediatric Autoimmune Neuropsychiatric Disorder Associated with Streptococcal infection
posted by BobTheScientist at 1:07 PM on October 19, 2023 [6 favorites]
To each their baggage. For me: PANDAS Pediatric Autoimmune Neuropsychiatric Disorder Associated with Streptococcal infection
posted by BobTheScientist at 1:07 PM on October 19, 2023 [6 favorites]
This happened to me. It's pretty nasty when you're trying to run a small business. No reason given, Meta says no. No where to appeal because, well, banned-for-life. It's a untrustworthy company, Meta/Facebook, with their fake review non-process.
But Internet Research Agency propaganda ads and nazi pages are OK.
posted by UN at 1:25 PM on October 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
But Internet Research Agency propaganda ads and nazi pages are OK.
posted by UN at 1:25 PM on October 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
I took "algorithm thought programming instructor" as a job title at Meta on first reading.
posted by jamjam at 1:34 PM on October 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by jamjam at 1:34 PM on October 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
I once got a personal, much less costly, 3-day ban for saying "burn your house down" in response to a friend saying "what should I do about this spider I saw in my basement." I appealed and lost that, with the warning that strongly suggests that if I persist in appealing, I would be banned for life. AI does not understand sarcasm, I guess.
posted by OrangeDisk at 2:16 PM on October 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by OrangeDisk at 2:16 PM on October 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
The last time I applied for a job, I failed my résumé into an AI hr to see what the software would tell a hiring manager about me. Among all the wild bullshit that came out, my favorite was that it parsed a line about how I “streamlined and automated tasks in sales and fulfillment” got pared down to just “auto sales”, and I got recommended a bunch of jobs for used car lots
posted by Jon_Evil at 2:31 PM on October 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Jon_Evil at 2:31 PM on October 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
In a Mountain Goats (the band) fan group, someone asked how we got into the band. I said, "I'm a basic Palmcorder Yajna bitch myself," referring to a common entry song for the band. Facebook automatically flagged the post, hid it and gave me a 36 hour ban on posting in the group. I appealed and got a note saying they declined to review.
Meanwhile my wife's art business page got hacked and converted into a scam page purporting to...prevent Facebook hacks. Multiple reports and requests for help and we got nothing. She eventually just had to make a new page and re-upload her hundreds of pictures, try to rebuild her community... it's nuts.
posted by skullhead at 2:43 PM on October 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
Meanwhile my wife's art business page got hacked and converted into a scam page purporting to...prevent Facebook hacks. Multiple reports and requests for help and we got nothing. She eventually just had to make a new page and re-upload her hundreds of pictures, try to rebuild her community... it's nuts.
posted by skullhead at 2:43 PM on October 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
This doesn't surprise me, our small mild Methodist church has had it's account suspended for at least a year with no follow up to any appeal. It just says they will have it reviewed by a human soon. We checked the thing several times, non colorful comments, no hate speech, mostly pictures of church pot lucks and flyers for said pot-lucks, and a weekly post with a link to our YouTube live stream for any members who can't make it to the building. But it's a tiny group with like 30 members so it's no priority for them to do anything.
The product is free, I guess I shouldn't expect much from the service.
posted by MrBobaFett at 3:07 PM on October 19, 2023
The product is free, I guess I shouldn't expect much from the service.
posted by MrBobaFett at 3:07 PM on October 19, 2023
Not sure if this has turned up on the blue yet
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/10/06/1201840678/ai-was-asked-to-create-images-of-black-african-docs-treating-white-kids-howd-it-
AI - "get your -isms wholesale"
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 3:28 PM on October 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/10/06/1201840678/ai-was-asked-to-create-images-of-black-african-docs-treating-white-kids-howd-it-
AI - "get your -isms wholesale"
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 3:28 PM on October 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
It was updated.
Automatically, as soon as a wifi connection became available. No user input sought nor required.
posted by flabdablet at 4:26 PM on October 19, 2023
Automatically, as soon as a wifi connection became available. No user input sought nor required.
posted by flabdablet at 4:26 PM on October 19, 2023
"Computers Don't Argue" by Gordon Dickson
See also Major Major Major Major.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 4:26 PM on October 19, 2023
See also Major Major Major Major.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 4:26 PM on October 19, 2023
A couple of years ago, I discovered a Facebook page for a literal neo-Nazi metal band.
It read pretty clearly as "just" a bunch of Midwestern teenagers being edgy, but it wasn't remotely subtle. Pictures of the band wearing SS uniforms, with swastika banners on the wall. SS runes. Posts praising Hitler and saying (mostly incoherent) things about Jews.
I reported it, and asked my Facebook friends to do the same. Facebook didn't take it down.
Of course not. Facebook doesn't want to offend future Republican voters.
posted by jonp72 at 5:28 PM on October 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
It read pretty clearly as "just" a bunch of Midwestern teenagers being edgy, but it wasn't remotely subtle. Pictures of the band wearing SS uniforms, with swastika banners on the wall. SS runes. Posts praising Hitler and saying (mostly incoherent) things about Jews.
I reported it, and asked my Facebook friends to do the same. Facebook didn't take it down.
Of course not. Facebook doesn't want to offend future Republican voters.
posted by jonp72 at 5:28 PM on October 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
I've been locked out of Facebook for typing too fast. My typing instructor from high school would be so proud and frankly surprised (assuming she is still alive).
posted by srboisvert at 5:35 PM on October 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 5:35 PM on October 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
Oh hi! I'm so edgy that Twitter refused to let me promote tweets for more than 5 years because I'd done something offensive. I have no idea what it was, and asking them got me nowhere. Also, I don't promote tweets and never had, so I wasn't sure why they were even reaching out to tell me in the first place. And then what do you know - under Musk's regime I am suddenly eligible again. Still not going to give them a dime, under any circumstances, but just so you guys know, I AM PRETTY DANGEROUS.
posted by BlahLaLa at 5:50 PM on October 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by BlahLaLa at 5:50 PM on October 19, 2023 [5 favorites]
A few years back, my then-6-year-old daughter and I went looking for the snake that had been the talk of the neighborhood Facebook group. Folks were conjecturing that someone had released an unwanted ball python into the wooded area nearby, and someone posted a picture of the ferocious-looking* creature that they had managed to snap before it slithered underneath a large rock.
*from the framing of the picture, you couldn't tell that the snake was actually ~6 inches long, weighed about half a pound, and would maybe be menacing to a field mouse
Well. This being New England, and the snake being a warm-weather species, I was concerned that the cold winter would spell certain doom for the poor snake, so off we went to see what we could see. I ended up hefting the edge of a large flat rock, while another woman we had just met helped gather the terrified snake up and nestle it into a blanket-lined shoebox. My daughter filmed everything with my phone. We took the snake to the local animal hospital to surrender it, but reptiles were kind of outside their area of expertise. Luckily, the fellow rescuer we had just met was herself a herpetophile (a real word that I definitely did not just make up) and had two snakes already living happily in a large terrarium with all the required equipment, and she agreed to adopt the little guy, who she promptly named after my daughter.
Anyway. All to say: earlier this year, I went to look up the article that the local newspaper published about the whole incident, only to discover that searching "python boston <my daughter's full name>" now returns nothing but SEO spam about programming bootcamps. In conclusion, snakes are awesome, don't name your technology product after anything real, and computers are really bad at understanding context.
posted by Mayor West at 5:42 AM on October 20, 2023 [11 favorites]
*from the framing of the picture, you couldn't tell that the snake was actually ~6 inches long, weighed about half a pound, and would maybe be menacing to a field mouse
Well. This being New England, and the snake being a warm-weather species, I was concerned that the cold winter would spell certain doom for the poor snake, so off we went to see what we could see. I ended up hefting the edge of a large flat rock, while another woman we had just met helped gather the terrified snake up and nestle it into a blanket-lined shoebox. My daughter filmed everything with my phone. We took the snake to the local animal hospital to surrender it, but reptiles were kind of outside their area of expertise. Luckily, the fellow rescuer we had just met was herself a herpetophile (a real word that I definitely did not just make up) and had two snakes already living happily in a large terrarium with all the required equipment, and she agreed to adopt the little guy, who she promptly named after my daughter.
Anyway. All to say: earlier this year, I went to look up the article that the local newspaper published about the whole incident, only to discover that searching "python boston <my daughter's full name>" now returns nothing but SEO spam about programming bootcamps. In conclusion, snakes are awesome, don't name your technology product after anything real, and computers are really bad at understanding context.
posted by Mayor West at 5:42 AM on October 20, 2023 [11 favorites]
don't name your technology product after anything real
Python is named for the comedy group, but has shifted to branding things around the snake, because ophidians are generally less litigious than cranky old comedians.
posted by zamboni at 7:11 AM on October 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
Python is named for the comedy group, but has shifted to branding things around the snake, because ophidians are generally less litigious than cranky old comedians.
posted by zamboni at 7:11 AM on October 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
6 inches long and half a pound? Is this a snake or an overstuffed sausage. Now let me look at the picture... oh I see.
posted by Pyry at 8:39 AM on October 20, 2023
posted by Pyry at 8:39 AM on October 20, 2023
Unfortunately, herpetophile is a real word, but it involves rule 34.
posted by Jon_Evil at 8:26 PM on October 23, 2023
posted by Jon_Evil at 8:26 PM on October 23, 2023
« Older Deuteronomy 22:11 a problem no more | They made cigarettes addictive; why not food? Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
> The good news? I got an answer right away from a friend on LinkedIn. He told me that he also had problems advertising his Python training courses on Meta platforms because — get this — Meta thought that he was dealing in live animals, which is forbidden.
posted by AlSweigart at 9:00 AM on October 19, 2023 [2 favorites]