The Party of No (Speaker)
October 25, 2023 8:00 AM Subscribe

Representative Patrick McHenry (R-NC) remains acting Speaker of the House, an incredible three weeks after Kevin McCarthy was ousted by a group of far-right Republicans radicals. To recap the last fortnight and a half: McCarthy makes a surprise decision against running again; heir-apparent Steve "David Duke without the baggage" Scalise ekes out an internal vote against Fox News favorite Gym "Jim" Jordan only to be torpedoed by the Freedom Caucus; next Jordan seizes the nomination, but his ugly pressure campaign is repeatedly rejected by suddenly vertebrate GOP moderates; after three increasingly unsuccessful runs Jordan bows out to Tom Emmer, whose bid is summarily vaporized by Trump in a matter of hours. The latest rep in the barrel: Louisiana congressman Mike Johnson, who might actually have a shot at winning the gavel despite his extreme anti-choice (and anti-choice) stances. Can Johnson win the booby prize, or will the House GOP be forced to consider empowering McHenry (lol), implementing a power-sharing agreement with themselves (lmao), or *gasp* working with Democrats? The fate of the party and funding for Israel, Ukraine, and the federal government could hinge on today's noon vote. (liveblog)
posted by Rhaomi (281 comments total) 43 users marked this as a favorite

Amazing summary - thank you for posting this (and for the phrase "suddenly vertebrate").
posted by joannemerriam at 8:09 AM on October 25, 2023 [41 favorites]

They are so doing this on purpose, to slow-walk a shutdown.

After all: if you can't "down it in a bathtub," you can still starve it!
posted by wenestvedt at 8:14 AM on October 25, 2023 [12 favorites]

Damn, I hoped for a reason to blast "Exhuming McCarthy" from R.E.M.'s Document.
posted by credulous at 8:17 AM on October 25, 2023 [15 favorites]

"Suddenly vertebrate" was good.
posted by mhoye at 8:23 AM on October 25, 2023 [8 favorites]

They are so doing this on purpose, to slow-walk a shutdown.

Usually slow-roll efforts like this don't involve people subjecting themselves to their own homebrewed ritual humiliation, but I'm happy to believe it's useful to their various puppet masters.
posted by mhoye at 8:24 AM on October 25, 2023 [7 favorites]

They are so doing this on purpose, to slow-walk a shutdown.

Why would they do that? This level of public incompetence is much more embarrassing to them (especially to their base) than a shutdown fight over excessive spending.
posted by mark k at 8:25 AM on October 25, 2023 [6 favorites]

Yeah, nice summary. Candidates that last hours...

This morning I read this opinion piece that muses about whether the ongoing GOP inability to agree on a new speaker might presage the breakup of the Republican party?

Oh, if only. Besides breaking the hold of Trump and his MAGAts on the GOP, and the immediate boost to the Democrats' electability, it could mark the end of the rigid 2-party stranglehold on US politics. I would love to see the GOP fission into a center-right party, and a much less influential bowl of far-right nuts.
posted by Artful Codger at 8:25 AM on October 25, 2023 [6 favorites]

Unfortunately, it appears to be fissioning into a bowl of far-right nuts, and a much less influential center-right party.
posted by kyrademon at 8:27 AM on October 25, 2023 [34 favorites]

Republicans radicals
I don't know if the mutilation of the grammar by adding that s was deliberate, but I think it's a perfect counterpart to the GOP's masterfully irritating "Democrat Party." "Republicans" as an adjective sounds exquisitely, scintillatingly stupid. Now we can have "the Democrat party and the Republicans party." And then those members of the Republicans Party who still experience some genuine human emotion can get infuriated with the excruciating stupidity of it all and retaliate and maybe we'll finally have parity. "The Republicans Party and the Democrats Party."
posted by Don Pepino at 8:28 AM on October 25, 2023 [12 favorites]

Yeah, if Mike "most important architect of the G.O.P. Electoral College objections to the 2020 election results" Johnson wins the Speakership, this feels like a huge win for the far right wing of the party and yet another cave from the "Squishes" (i.e. so called R moderates). It's "Jim Jordan without the baggage"
posted by gwint at 8:29 AM on October 25, 2023 [16 favorites]

It is interesting in that it seems to me that both parties are fracturing. The Republicans are doing it publicly in real-time while the Democrats are slow walking their fracture sped up by the Hamas attack on Israel.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 8:30 AM on October 25, 2023

Last night I sent my Irish friend an email, the shortest email I've ever sent her. All I said was:

"For the record - if you were at any point hoping for an insider's explanation of exactly what in the hell is going on with United States politics, I'm afraid I'm just as lost as you are."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:31 AM on October 25, 2023 [23 favorites]

As embarassing and potentially dangerous for the country as this is, I have not missed hearing their bloviations about impeaching Biden.
posted by vverse23 at 8:36 AM on October 25, 2023 [24 favorites]

I have been watching this with the Ukraine/Israel news and thought it was a neat coincidence that far-right disruption has made the US incapable of passing more measures to provide aid. Especially after they were sidelined during the last shutdown by the declaration that funding for Ukraine was not affected, I think the Putin-loving contingent were more humiliated by that than they are by this current shitshow, which they can easily sell to their base, and achieves what they want anyway.
posted by pulposus at 8:41 AM on October 25, 2023 [3 favorites]

Unfortunately, it appears to be fissioning into a bowl of far-right nuts, and a much less influential center-right party.

It’s more multiple far right factions if we’re honest, with minor disagreements over how much they can burn down the economy/democracy to retain power but mostly just petty grievances against each other.
posted by Artw at 8:42 AM on October 25, 2023 [12 favorites]

For those playing along at home: The longest the House has gone without a Speaker was in 1856, when there was a two month period without one.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:48 AM on October 25, 2023 [10 favorites]

They are so doing this on purpose, to slow-walk a shutdown.

I know that GOP strategists are terrible lately, but potentially losing the House for a generation (there are far more than just four seats that can swing blue based on just "these motherfuckers can't govern their way our of a paper bag" alone.) to do something that could very put your political party into its grave is too stupid even for the GOP Congressional Caucus.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 8:52 AM on October 25, 2023 [6 favorites]

> This level of public incompetence is much more embarrassing to them (especially to their base) than a shutdown fight over excessive spending.

I have no idea what is going on, but do you think so? I don't think most of these people are capable of feeling shame or embarrassment in this context, and I doubt they're worried about their base because most of those people either think all of this is great, or don't think about it at all and will just check the box next to whichever candidate has an (R) beside their name in the next election.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:53 AM on October 25, 2023 [15 favorites]

Is it really meaningful to talk about a Republican Party anymore? Or are we looking at two emerging parties, both claiming to be the real Republican Party because nobody wants to be the ones to wander in the wilderness for several electoral cycles while creating a new party?

It's basically that. There is a far-right MAGA wing. It sounds like they are mostly bigots who feel they are the only people who have a right to decide how this country operates. Their primary goal, though, seems to be to "own the libs." For instance, not only will they oppose gun legislation, they'll push to declare a "national gun."

Then, there are Republicans who are of more-or-less the conventional mold. They oppose the Democrats, sure, but, at some level, acknowledge they have to reach across the aisle. They will drive to actually govern. These folks have been dieing out since 2016, and called RINOs by the other half.

The challenge is that the latter group currently values winning over the good of the country. The OG GOP could split off from MAGA, and produce a conservative but relatively mainstream platform (fiscally conservative, socially conservative but not to the extreme MAGA does (i.e. no national gun bills)). Boomers will die off, we'll get a clean slate, and MAGA will be less prevalent. To do this, OG GOP would have to accept that the Democrats will win many cycles--perhaps even a generation--and probably wind up with a more liberal country than they started.

Put another way, this is going beyond putting country over party. This is acknowledging there is a cancer in their party, and having to tear down the party in order to cure it.
posted by MrGuilt at 8:53 AM on October 25, 2023 [14 favorites]

This level of public incompetence is much more embarrassing to them (especially to their base)

I don't believe that there is a grand strategy here either - but let's be real. This isn't going to make them look bad to their base, because their base is a bunch of low-information rubes who will happily swallow whatever story they cook up about how this is the fault of Democrats and the woke left - if they even hear much about it at all. That's how they remain their base.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 9:00 AM on October 25, 2023 [14 favorites]

Alternate Live video of the vote at noon today.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:01 AM on October 25, 2023

The other prevailing theory is that the far-far-right is desperate to get the speakership as they can overturn the next presidential election that way.
posted by Artw at 9:01 AM on October 25, 2023 [21 favorites]

they'll push to declare a "national gun."

Of course it’s the AR-15. Honestly as the Mass shooters choice it SHOULD be the national gun.
posted by Artw at 9:03 AM on October 25, 2023 [3 favorites]

Motivated by power, several of these clowns have figured out (perhaps not incorrectly) that TV time and mentions in social media means more power to them than doing anything related to the job, including just rallying around a Speaker nominee.

Look, you can say Gaetz is doing this for ideological reasons (he's not), but Nancy Mace? C'mon. These are back-benchers realizing they can be relevant by being obstructionists within their own party. And then it whiplashes over the other direction when they try to ram e.g. Jim Jordan through, which the 10-20 remaining sane members balk at. Lather, rinse, repeat.

It's more likely that the "moderates" (they're not) end up voting a far-right member in than the extremists caving, and that is super scary, but it is even more likely they just remain in a failed state for a very long time.
posted by mcstayinskool at 9:04 AM on October 25, 2023 [7 favorites]

The other prevailing theory is that the far-far-right is desperate to get the speakership as they can overturn the next presidential election that way..

If you see who went down in flame and in what order it's more the case that they're clearing out any sort of moderate leadership at all in the GOP so no one will be able to make any deals with the Democrats going forward. It's why Gaetz has said this whole ordeal has been in his words "worth it".
posted by jmauro at 9:07 AM on October 25, 2023 [3 favorites]

This isn't going to make them look bad to their base

Maybe. I have a few relatives who were Trump voters who are planning not to vote in 2024 because they are embarrassed by the Republicans but can't bring themselves to vote for Democrats. No idea if they are representative of anything though.
posted by joannemerriam at 9:08 AM on October 25, 2023 [3 favorites]

not only will they oppose gun legislation, they'll push to declare a "national gun."

🤞please be a Super Soaker, please be a Super Soaker, please
posted by pwnguin at 9:08 AM on October 25, 2023 [11 favorites]

The sanest (though highly improbable) outcome that I've seen mooted is the Dems joining with 10-20 centrist members of the Republicans party to elect Liz Cheney as speaker.

The centrists aren't going to swing to Jeffries (though you might be able to peel off a few Republicans seats in the Northeast), but you might be able to build some support for a former representative who voted for impeachment.
posted by thecaddy at 9:08 AM on October 25, 2023 [2 favorites]

Besides breaking the hold of Trump and his MAGAts on the GOP, and the immediate boost to the Democrats' electability, it could mark the end of the rigid 2-party stranglehold on US politics.

Historically, when something like this has happened, the end result was a different party becoming part of a new 2-party system. Or, perhaps more frequently, the party names remain the same but the nature of one or both parties changes (e.g., the transfer of southern racialists from the Democratic Party to the Republican Party in the civil rights era). There is something about the way the US political system is set up under the Constitution that encourages a 2-party system, and I don't think the US has ever not had a 2-party system.
posted by slkinsey at 9:10 AM on October 25, 2023 [5 favorites]

The sanest (though highly improbable) outcome that I've seen mooted is the Dems joining with 10-20 centrist members of the Republicans party to elect Liz Cheney as speaker.

WaPo is pitching some silly and improbable thing like that.

I can most see it happening over Israel, and the optics of that are going to get worse and worse over time even as media and donor pressure increases.
posted by Artw at 9:11 AM on October 25, 2023 [3 favorites]

I have no idea what is going on, but do you think so . . . I doubt they're worried about their base because most of those people either think all of this is great

The on- and off-the-record comments make it clear a lot of GOP members are angry and embarrassed.

Their base does not think this is great. The core Republican voter has one goal: piss off liberals. This entertaining liberals. They want to imagine themselves as warriors who are frustrated by a powerful deep state, not people who pile into a clown car then realize no one brought the keys. More to the point, those core voters would think a shutdown is great. So why do this instead of doing a shutdown?

And for the low information swing voter, shutdown strategy 101 is you present an alternative budget then claim the other side is stubborn for not accepting it. The media will play along with the keyfabe, but you need to actually give them a story line.
posted by mark k at 9:15 AM on October 25, 2023 [7 favorites]

The challenge is that the latter group currently values winning over the good of the country.

The underlying structural problem of this rigid 2-party system is that winning is winning, period. Do ANYTHING that prevents the other party from prevailing... and if hitching your wagon to an amoral, narcissistic rich clown is statistically likely to result in an election win, then hail to the clown!

I don't think the US has ever not had a 2-party system.

A guy can dream, right?
posted by Artful Codger at 9:17 AM on October 25, 2023 [2 favorites]

I'm personally rooting for Coalition Government Pro Tempore as then we'd surely get an associated, excellent mixed drink recipe minted off of it.
posted by Slackermagee at 9:20 AM on October 25, 2023

...they'll push to declare a "national gun."

🤞please be a Super Soaker, please be a Super Soaker, please

Great news! It is the lead-firing equivalent of the Super Soaker!
posted by Don Pepino at 9:21 AM on October 25, 2023 [3 favorites]

Two-party system: it’s the law.
posted by migurski at 9:22 AM on October 25, 2023 [2 favorites]

Things have a way of working out for Republicans, so one way or another I'm confident the party will come out of this just fine.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:23 AM on October 25, 2023 [1 favorite]

There is something about the way the US political system is set up under the Constitution that encourages a 2-party system, and I don't think the US has ever not had a 2-party system.

1912-14 was about as close as we've ever gotten to a 3+ party system, with the Progressive Party managing 9 Representatives, 1 Senator, and almost a third of the electoral votes necessary to win the presidency.
posted by jedicus at 9:23 AM on October 25, 2023 [2 favorites]

If you want to see what a fractured Republican party and a three-party system would do to American politics, well, we're watching an example of it right now in the House. The Republican Party and the Kook Party have a combined majority, but each refuses to cede control over the machine to the other, and the Democrats have a firm 49% minority and are unable to sway anyone into defecting.

I don't think that anyone, other than those amongst the hard right who view this chaotic mess as preferable to Democrats OR 'mainstream' Republicans controlling the House's agenda, considers this to be a positive.
posted by delfin at 9:23 AM on October 25, 2023 [9 favorites]

More to the point, those core voters would think a shutdown is great. So why do this instead of doing a shutdown?

because the "RINOS", meaning anyone who's willing to make a deal with the democrats, will stop the shutdown from happening, just like they did earlier this year

so, the extreme right is going to hold this country hostage by blocking the govt from doing ANYTHING - no speaker, no gov't
posted by pyramid termite at 9:23 AM on October 25, 2023 [2 favorites]

I don't think the US has ever not had a 2-party system.

I was going to disagree with this and cite the Whig party of the 1800s, but it turns out
to be largely correct. The Whigs were just part of a different 2-party system. Eventually they folded into the anti-slavery Republican party (PSA: the Republican Party of Lincoln bears no resemblance to the current Republican party), but it was effectively a 2-party system throughout.
posted by mcstayinskool at 9:27 AM on October 25, 2023 [1 favorite]

The US won't move beyond its main two-party system until there are runoff elections nationwide (because the spoiler effect needs to be eliminated first).
posted by Brian B. at 9:28 AM on October 25, 2023 [4 favorites]

All the reporting from this morning makes it look as though the music is winding down and Johnson managed to sit down at just the right time. I think he might actually carry this vote, largely as a result of every Republican finally being exhausted.
posted by Room 101 at 9:31 AM on October 25, 2023 [3 favorites]

I didn't think Rs could nominate a more punchable face, but they managed it with Johnson. He's one smug motherfucker.
posted by Ickster at 9:34 AM on October 25, 2023 [4 favorites]

So is this the final act in the long-running play to have rich deep Christians run the country without actually having to run for office themselves? The years of gerrymandering, and dealing with Trump to get judges in place, and keeping the seeds of religious and racial hatred alive now come to fruit? Shame the Koch brothers did not both live to see it....
posted by beaning at 9:35 AM on October 25, 2023 [7 favorites]

More to the point, those core voters would think a shutdown is great. So why do this instead of doing a shutdown?

I think this stuff is just too inside baseball with too much geopolitically going on to matter much and 3 weeks just not long enough to bother the general US populace. Israel/Hamas provided them cover, and Johnson (if he wins) is worse than McCarthy. This would be a win for them.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:35 AM on October 25, 2023 [2 favorites]

It's crazy how each successive nominee so far (and obviously also McHenry) is another iteration on "the worst guy you went to law school with."
posted by saladin at 9:38 AM on October 25, 2023 [19 favorites]

It's so on-brand for Republicans to be led by their Johnson. 🤣
posted by zaixfeep at 9:41 AM on October 25, 2023 [8 favorites]

I swear if they elect Johnson and then start with the "Democracy is messy but we put our big boy pants on and we got there!. Good job, well done everyone!" shit, I'll lose my mind.....they should be being absolutely eviscerated for this. I get it that some of the R's like the House being effectively useless, but *every* voter needs to know the impact of that - and if nothing else that the Republican members are collecting pay checks for literally nothing because they can't govern for shit.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 9:41 AM on October 25, 2023 [7 favorites]

1. I don't see how we avoid a shutdown or just a series of CRs while the GOP has a majority.
2. The long game is of course to get into enough power to deny any Democratic wins in 2024.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 9:43 AM on October 25, 2023 [5 favorites]

There is something about the way the US political system is set up under the Constitution that encourages a 2-party system, and I don't think the US has ever not had a 2-party system.

It's first-past-the-post/winner take all that creates the effect, yes--that's what creates the effect third parties are notorious for, "siphoning away" votes from the most similar of the two hegemonic parties. Ranked-choice voting generally ameliorates this effect a bit.

Third parties can and do rack up candidates for local and state seats. There are even third parties that have elected significant chunks of states' federal reps for the House: for example, the related Minnesota Farmer-Labor party, New York-based American Labor Party, and Wisconsin Progressive Party elected a number of federal reps from their respective states through the 30s and 40s. (Today, the remnants of the Minnesota party can be seen in the Minnesota-based Democratic-Farmer-Labor party, which generally exists as a semi-independent wing of the Democrats.) And third parties do occasionally win gubernatorial races.

But yes, generally you really see third parties proliferating on a national level primarily when one of the main two parties is fracturing and splintering: the Know-Nothings in the 1850s, Teddy Roosevelt's Bull Moose party of Republican progressives in 1912 (which actually did win more of the popular vote than the losing two-party nominee, though less than the winning Woodrow Wilson), and of course the time at which the most US federal reps were won by third parties was *checks notes* ah, yes, the 1850s, famously a time of peak American stability and growth.... particularly when many of these brief parties were coalescing around statehood for Nebraska and Kansas.

Honestly, in many ways the Know-Nothings are the best parallels for the Republican party collapse of today, but it's hard to see where the lessons are externally for progressives to respond: it broke against its inability to adopt a strong, unified anti-slavery platform, because it was founded essentially in bigoted, reactionary response to immigrants and Catholics, and many of the ex-Whigs it called to its banner had wildly divided responses to slavery ranging from full-throated abolitionism to a sort of "live-and-let live" tolerance. This was precisely the question that had shattered the Whigs as a functional party. In some ways, you can understand the Know-Nothings as an attempt to regather Whigs by distracting from the fundamental policy divides that caused such acrimony and encouraging everyone to agree that those filthy, perverse immigrants and Catholics were the real problem that could be united behind. Essentially, you have deeply a party that's trying to distract from its real fractious factionalism by leaning into bigotry and opposition to Democrats, trying to stay functional (and winning elections) rather than pausing to decide on a unified platform.

They collapse from within when it becomes clear that they don't have enough organizing ability or sufficiently unified beliefs to collect themselves under a single banner. In some ways, I think this is what is happening to the modern Republican party: the bigoted, petty fucks are beginning to realize that they might as well be bullheaded fucks to one another as to the Democrats, and the weak-spined "moderates" of the party are starting to realize that aligning with the wingnuts is not going to get anything done. I will say for the Know-Nothings that they did have some policy opinions beyond simple bigotry, which is more than I can say for the more radical wing of the Republicans.
posted by sciatrix at 9:45 AM on October 25, 2023 [14 favorites]

In normal parliamentary systems the steps are:

The party selects a leader
An election is held
The party forms a coalition with other parties to form a government

In the US because of its Constitution and Duverger's law, the sequence is:

The party forms a coalition
The party selects a leader
An election is held

The so-called two parties in the US have always been coalitions of ideological and regional factions that in other democracies would be split off into separate parties. These factions sometimes end up switching parties, which is what happened in the US South during the 20th Century.

The problem comes with step 2: selecting a leader. The US had to adopt a primary system, because before that, pretty much every party convention was a shitshow when it came time for the various party factions to decide on a leader. The same thing is happening here now, but historically, it doesn't compare to the Democrats in 1924, who took 16 days and 103 ballots to nominate John W. Davis for President. The only way this is going to be fixed in the long term is for either the GOP to expel its extremists, a new party arises and replaces the GOP, or there's another realignment, which would take decades to complete.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 9:48 AM on October 25, 2023 [13 favorites]

The GOP seems to be creating its own two party system that will exclude the Democrats.
posted by MonsieurPEB at 9:48 AM on October 25, 2023 [3 favorites]

The sanest (though highly improbable) outcome that I've seen mooted is the Dems joining with 10-20 centrist members of the Republicans party to elect Liz Cheney as speaker.

Given the newest House rules the extremists pushed-through, though, it will only take a simple majority to immediately oust Cheney from the Speakership. Anyone not to their liking will be immediately voted out.

This is all about killing-off the federal government. Or, at least kneecapping it enough to make it ineffective. I'm not saying it's a concerted plan, mind you. It's sheer opportunism at its most bottom-of-the-barrel nastiness, and the extremists don't give a fuck how bad it makes the GOP look. They're Trumpists. And anarchy is how he has always run his businesses.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:49 AM on October 25, 2023 [10 favorites]

with the Progressive Party managing 9 Representatives, 1 Senator, and almost a third of the electoral votes necessary to win the presidency.

it speaks to how abysmally stupid this timeline is, that the word 'Progressive' is now anathema to a sizable segment of the US. I bet you'd get more votes under a Freedom Christian Party banner
posted by elkevelvet at 9:49 AM on October 25, 2023 [3 favorites]

"Suddenly vertebrate" was good.

Also the post title, "The Party of No (Speaker)". Solid wordsmithery here!
posted by gurple at 9:49 AM on October 25, 2023 [6 favorites]

Thor dad: This is all about killing-off the federal government. Or, at least kneecapping it enough to make it ineffective.

That's what I meant! The less government, the better (by their lights).
posted by wenestvedt at 9:50 AM on October 25, 2023 [1 favorite]

Sure, “Democrat Party” is cool but you have you ever heard Mitch McConnell say “Democrats?” You have to go pretty far left to find an equivalently masterful pronunciation of a single word. All I can think of is Angela Davis saying “capitalism.”

If I was Hakeem Jeffries I’d be hiring a speaking coach and practicing the word “Republicans” in the mirror. It’s not like he has much else to do.
posted by Headfullofair at 9:52 AM on October 25, 2023 [4 favorites]

Yeah, I don't think most House Republicans care about the optics of all this. Chaos is always on the agenda, and if the government breaks down, mission accomplished. Whatever gets them closer to a state of emergency is seen as a win, because for fascists, a state of emergency is key to seizing power through extra-legal means. Their followers are rooting for chaos because they are Christian nationalists, and for them the end-times are a time to party it up.

I think this all comes down to the verterbrality of the OG R's.
posted by swift at 9:55 AM on October 25, 2023 [5 favorites]

You can pick your friends, you can pick your nose, but you can't pick your no-Speaker.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:56 AM on October 25, 2023 [4 favorites]

If you want to see what a fractured Republican party and a three-party system would do to American politics, well, we're watching an example of it right now in the House. The Republican Party and the Kook Party have a combined majority, but each refuses to cede control over the machine to the other, and the Democrats have a firm 49% minority and are unable to sway anyone into defecting.

I don't think that anyone, other than those amongst the hard right who view this chaotic mess as preferable to Democrats OR 'mainstream' Republicans controlling the House's agenda, considers this to be a positive.

I would argue that this is a special moment, as this situation has not existed during an election. I suspect if this continues through November 2024, we get something resembling Harper's control over Canadian government thanks to Labor being partially split with whats-their-names, the New Dems? Or was that the UK?

Anyway, if the conservative vote splits in an election its Blue City Bay-Bee
posted by Slackermagee at 9:57 AM on October 25, 2023 [1 favorite]

Republicans arranged their seating so that all the members visible behind Stefanik during her nomination speech are women. Angling for a good campaign clip?
posted by 0xFCAF at 9:59 AM on October 25, 2023 [1 favorite]

I doubt they're worried about their base

They may not be particularly worried about their base voting for them in '24, but they still don't like getting barraged with emails and calls from constituents complaining about this situation.

Also House districts can be weird - lots of times Republican gerrymandering involves squeaking out small leads in lots of districts, or trying to jam the Democrats into a small number of districts, but the end result is that sudden upsets are definitely possible, especially if there's high turnout.

More to the point, those core voters would think a shutdown is great.

Those core voters will think a shutdown is great until they lose SNAP (a.k.a. "food stamp") benefits because the Farm Bill hasn't passed, and they start getting laid off from construction projects because infrastructure funding approval has halted, and the Veteran's Administration & Social Security goes to minimal staffing so problems don't get sorted out in a timely manner, and and and.

Remember, these are the same folks that have been yelling "Keep your government hands off my Medicare" for almost 15 years - I won't say they're stupid, but there's definitely a high level of obliviousness and willful ignorance. When the shit hits the fan and affects them personally they give their Republican reps an earful even though 10 minutes before they were cheering the government not being able to fund partial abortions after birth or compulsory drag show attendance or whatever-the-fuck bullshit they think the government does. And I think most R reps know this.
posted by soundguy99 at 10:01 AM on October 25, 2023 [13 favorites]

Thor dad: This is all about killing-off the federal government. Or, at least kneecapping it enough to make it ineffective.

There is a catch to that, however. Conservatives are just fine with enabling strong elements of government that they personally control, for just as long as they personally control them.

Anyway, I am not looking forward to those "suddenly vertebrate" representatives folding on Johnson and demonstrating that their opposition to Jordan stemmed not from any sort of principle, morality or desire for the reemerging of government by comparative moderates, but simply from the fact that it is impossible to look directly at Jordan and not think Christ, what an ASSHOLE.
posted by delfin at 10:05 AM on October 25, 2023 [1 favorite]

Voting is now underway.....come on "others" you can do it...
posted by inflatablekiwi at 10:10 AM on October 25, 2023

The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it.

— P. J. O'Rourke
posted by kirkaracha at 10:15 AM on October 25, 2023 [11 favorites]

Craig just voted for Jeffries and a whole lot of people cheered - what was that about?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:15 AM on October 25, 2023 [1 favorite]

I think she called out "happy wedding anniversary to my wife" or something like that.
posted by SaltySalticid at 10:18 AM on October 25, 2023 [9 favorites]

The underlying structural problem of this rigid 2-party system is that winning is winning, period.

The same thing happens in multiparty democracies, but at the coalition-formation stage. It's only weakly multiparty but think about the LibDems supporting the Tories and getting fucked.

It's first-past-the-post/winner take all that creates the effect

The best you can say is that the strategic voting that should often be part of voting in single-member plurality elections exerts a vague, weakish pressure towards two parties.

Canada uses SMD plurality elections and their two parties that win seats are the fucking Tories, Liberals, NDP, Greens, and Bloc Quebecois, which is a moderately large value of two. In Ontario, they don't even bother to do strategic voting; they just let the fucking Tories win lots of seats with 35-40\% of the vote instead of coordinating their left vote at all.

The UK also uses SMD plurality elections and has an even larger value of two, electing members from the fucking Tories, Labour, SNP, Plaid Cymru, Liberal Democrats, Sinn Fein, DUP, Social Democrats, and probably more because why not.

Ugh, looking like the GOPers might have unfucked themselves for Johnson.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 10:19 AM on October 25, 2023 [2 favorites]

The only way this is going to be fixed in the long term is for either the GOP to expel its extremists, a new party arises and replaces the GOP, or there's another realignment, which would take decades to complete.

But I want an oompa-loompa now!

Of course it’s the AR-15. Honestly as the Mass shooters choice it SHOULD be the national gun.

Worst, easiest Mad Lib after any mass shooting: The [white nationalist man] with the [AR15] in the [public place].
posted by kirkaracha at 10:21 AM on October 25, 2023 [3 favorites]

apparently, some kind of deal was made
posted by pyramid termite at 10:22 AM on October 25, 2023

Given how bad the Roe reversal has been for the GOP (not to be callous about it - it's been far worse for the US's reproductive health), I wonder if Johnson will hurt them, being quite anti-choice?
posted by nightcoast at 10:23 AM on October 25, 2023 [2 favorites]

Johnson looks like he’s got the votes. But for how long.
posted by interogative mood at 10:23 AM on October 25, 2023 [1 favorite]

Given how bad the Roe reversal has been for the GOP (not to be callous about it - it's been far worse for the US's reproductive health), I wonder if Johnson will hurt them, being quite anti-choice?

I think they’ve given up on letting the public have a say in things a long time ago.
posted by Artw at 10:24 AM on October 25, 2023 [10 favorites]

So far 196 votes cast and 0 votes for "others". Looks like Johnson (energetic election denier, anti-choice, stridently fiscal conservative) is on track to win this.

There aren't two Republican parties. The party of McCain is dead. There's only the party of Trump now.
posted by splitpeasoup at 10:26 AM on October 25, 2023 [11 favorites]

Johnson is just Gym Jordan without the bad PR.
posted by Pendragon at 10:28 AM on October 25, 2023 [12 favorites]

Or Ron DeSantis without the personal charm.
posted by nickmark at 10:30 AM on October 25, 2023 [9 favorites]

Not sure what monkey's paw he had to wish on to get there but, unlike in the story, we will all get to share the consequences of Speaker Johnson. Second in line to the presidency and I bet less then 2% of the country could recognize his name or face.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 10:30 AM on October 25, 2023 [3 favorites]

Our (objectively, mathematically) stupid voting system doesn't ensure two-party dominance, but it sure as hell helps keep it intact.

We won't have meaningful third parties in the US until we can choose any of the (objectively, mathematically) superior methods for elections with multiple candidates.

Unfortunately, both parties know this, so it's really hard to get momentum for voting reform that demonstrably avoids wasted votes and better reflects democratic choice of a population.
posted by SaltySalticid at 10:32 AM on October 25, 2023 [5 favorites]

This guy literally attempted to overturn an election and overthrow the government and now he's going to be rewarded with one of the most powerful positions in U.S. politics. Failed state.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:32 AM on October 25, 2023 [49 favorites]

I give Johnson a full 30 seconds at the most, after taking the gavel, to invoke Hunter Biden.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:35 AM on October 25, 2023 [4 favorites]

I give Johnson a full 30 seconds at the most, after taking the gavel, to invoke Hunter Biden.
nah, he'll get right down to brass tacks and have the 12 or so funding bills all lined up for votes by this time next week.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 10:39 AM on October 25, 2023 [1 favorite]

With 177 for Johnson and 0 present or voting for "Other" it looks like Johnson has probably got the Rs votes locked down. The people who might be voting against Johnson look to be voting for him.

So . . . best wishes to the U.S. of A. with its new far-right leadership . . .
posted by flug at 10:41 AM on October 25, 2023 [1 favorite]

The list of Mike Johnson's political positions from Wikipedia is a fun (not really) read. Excerpt:

Abortion
Johnson opposes abortion and supports a nationwide ban

Climate Change
Johnson does not believe in anthropogenic climate change.

Immigration
Johnson supported President Donald Trump's 2017 executive order to prohibit immigration from seven predominantly Muslim countries

Donald Trump
Johnson served as a member of Trump's legal defense team ... [and voted] to overturn the results of the 2020 United States presidential election

LGBT rights
Johnson is a strong opponent of LGBT rights.
posted by splitpeasoup at 10:41 AM on October 25, 2023 [15 favorites]

So . . . best wishes to the U.S. of A. with its new far-right leadership . . .

Mike Johnson, like all House reps, is up for re-election in about 2 weeks.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:44 AM on October 25, 2023 [1 favorite]

Uhm, no? I think you're a year off.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 10:45 AM on October 25, 2023 [6 favorites]

I think you're a year off.

Oh, you're right, my apologies.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:46 AM on October 25, 2023 [2 favorites]

Just gonna leave this here for shits n giggles...
posted by Thorzdad at 10:46 AM on October 25, 2023 [6 favorites]

Today brought to you by Moderate Republicans Will Not Save You™
posted by gwint at 10:47 AM on October 25, 2023 [38 favorites]

Mike Johnson just elected Speaker. The inmates are officially running the asylum.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 10:49 AM on October 25, 2023 [3 favorites]

This guy literally attempted to overturn an election and overthrow the government and now he's going to be rewarded with one of the most powerful positions in U.S. politics. Failed state.

Now in hindsight, it would have been best of Democrats to support McCarthy, but who knows how many no-confidence votes he would have gotten. Who knows, maybe Johnson will be reasonable. LOL.
posted by The_Vegetables at 10:49 AM on October 25, 2023

So . . . best wishes to the U.S. of A. with its new far-right leadership . . .

Hey, at least the Writer's Strike is over!
posted by swift at 10:51 AM on October 25, 2023 [2 favorites]

Sure, blame it on the democrats. Weird flex, but ok.
posted by Pendragon at 10:51 AM on October 25, 2023 [46 favorites]

After weeks of Chaotic Evil ruling the roost, the Republican middle has decided to indulge in a little Lawful Evil, as a treat.
posted by delfin at 10:51 AM on October 25, 2023 [14 favorites]

Uhm, no? I think you're a year off.

And I believe they get to hang around and take a swing at disputing the results.
posted by Artw at 10:54 AM on October 25, 2023 [2 favorites]

Weird that we've all forgotten that McCarthy was a total shitstain as well. Lest we forget, Wikipedia remembers:

When Joe Biden won the 2020 U.S. presidential election, McCarthy supported Donald Trump's debunked claims of voter fraud and initially participated in efforts to overturn the results. After the U.S. Capitol was stormed during the 2021 electoral vote count, McCarthy reversed his previous comments on voter fraud in the election and blamed Trump for the riot.[8][9][10][11] By 2022, he had publicly reconciled with Trump.[12][13] McCarthy led the House Republicans through the 2022 elections, in which they gained a slim majority.

McCarthy was a loser and a coward, Johnson will be the same.
posted by muddgirl at 10:55 AM on October 25, 2023 [22 favorites]

To the contrary of WaPo et al it was always “bag of shit A” vs “bag of shit B”.
posted by Artw at 10:56 AM on October 25, 2023 [11 favorites]

> "The best you can say is that ... [it] exerts a vague, weakish pressure towards two parties."

THANK YOU! I wish Americans would stop acting like the weird-ass way U.S. politics have shaken out is the inevitable way of things when it demonstrably DOES NOT HAPPEN THAT WAY in other countries with very similar systems.
posted by kyrademon at 10:59 AM on October 25, 2023 [3 favorites]

> Canada uses SMD plurality elections and their two parties that win seats are the fucking Tories, Liberals, NDP, Greens, and Bloc Quebecois, which is a moderately large value of two. In Ontario, they don't even bother to do strategic voting; they just let the fucking Tories win lots of seats with 35-40\% of the vote instead of coordinating their left vote at all.

last time i looked closely (and tbf the last time I looked closely closely was when jack layton trod the earth) most provinces and especially most ridings tended to have at most two viable parties, and the ones that had more than that were utter chaos. things may have changed since then, though. mostly i’m posting this to ask actual canadians if things have changed.

one thing about the westminister system that allows for more than two parties so long as there’s at most two per region is that the absence of a nationwide election for executive means there’s not that same pressure toward at most two parties nationwide that washington-system presidential elections generate.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 11:05 AM on October 25, 2023 [5 favorites]

I suspect if this continues through November 2024, we get something resembling Harper's control over Canadian government thanks to Labor being partially split with whats-their-names, the New Dems? Or was that the UK?

Slackermagee, I think what you are thinking of is that Canada's left, such as it is, is split between the Liberal Party (centrist, socially liberal) and the New Democratic Party (NDP, mostly union folks which might be why you were thinking Labor, also socially liberal) and a few much smaller parties (the Greens etc). Every conservative who gets in, at least in the modern era, gets in by unifying the conservatives, whatever they are calling themselves that decade, who only appeal to about 30-40% of the electorate, and Harper was the same.
posted by joannemerriam at 11:07 AM on October 25, 2023 [1 favorite]

I'm surprised some of you thought it'd ever be anyone other than someone to McCarthy's right.

Johnson's not going to have an easier time of it, though.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:07 AM on October 25, 2023 [7 favorites]

Johnson's not going to have an easier time of it, though.

inshallah
posted by lalochezia at 11:10 AM on October 25, 2023 [28 favorites]

Does mean a shutdown is ensured rather mostly likely, so that’s guaranteed to suck rather than probably going to suck. Hopefully there’s some kind of strategy around that on the Dem side.
posted by Artw at 11:11 AM on October 25, 2023 [3 favorites]

Yeah, at least we won't be burdened with the news narrative of "Why aren't the Democrats trying to work with the election-denying, climate-denying, radical anti-choice/anti-LGBTQ speaker? Can't they just meet in the middle?"
posted by gwint at 11:14 AM on October 25, 2023 [23 favorites]

Are we sure the vote wasn't rigged? Maybe someone could file a lawsuit claiming that someone tampered with the communicative property of numbers?
posted by credulous at 11:14 AM on October 25, 2023 [15 favorites]

Does mean a shutdown is ensured rather mostly likely, so that’s guaranteed to suck rather than probably going to suck. Hopefully there’s some kind of strategy around that on the Dem side.

I don't see any way to avoid it. Johnson's only been in Congress for 6 years, and he has less than a month to figure out something that his party will pass. McCarthy got ousted for cooperating with Democrats on a continuing resolution. Johnson has a basically impossible task in front of him. Democrats should be ready to cooperate on reasonable measures, but should not agree to something crazy just to avoid a shut down - after all, the Senate will reject anything extreme.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 11:16 AM on October 25, 2023 [10 favorites]

When was the last time Republicans cared about the country as something other than a jingoistic fetish con job?

God help us all
posted by Jacen at 11:16 AM on October 25, 2023 [5 favorites]

THANK YOU! I wish Americans would stop acting like the weird-ass way U.S. politics have shaken out is the inevitable way of things when it demonstrably DOES NOT HAPPEN THAT WAY in other countries with very similar systems.

Exactly! Multiparty proportional representation systems with parliamentary coalition building work so much better. Like Israel. No, no, wait, I mean . . . the UK?
posted by The Bellman at 11:20 AM on October 25, 2023 [4 favorites]

Brief reminder that Emmer (remember him?) was a pretty far-right person himself, and has been since well before Trump was running for office. He replaced Michelle Bachmann in Minnesota-6, after all.

Somehow Emmer and McCarthy get tagged in the media as "more moderate". More moderate than who, some zombie Hitler clone? I think we've seen some painful Overton window stretching there, even more crass than usual.

Johnson's a far-right nutbag, but the others were, too.
posted by gimonca at 11:24 AM on October 25, 2023 [22 favorites]

Those core voters will think a shutdown is great until they lose SNAP (a.k.a. "food stamp") benefits because the Farm Bill hasn't passed . . .

Yes, I agree with that. My comment was responding to a chain of thought that the core voters love all chaos, so shutdown or unable to get a speaker is all the same. I still think that's wrong; at this point in time shutdowns are perceived as good but not being able to elect a speaker is just fecklessness.

The general pattern in shutdowns has been that the polling starts to favor the executive as the pain increases, as the executive has an easier time messaging a strategy to end it ("I will sign a bill if Congress gets one to me") McCarthy understood this conventional wisdom, which is why he avoided the shutdown. [This worked the other way in the Trump border wall shutdown, where Trump got blamed; the messaging that he was blocking a bill he got over a especially popular border wall seems to have reversed the usual response.]

The challenge is the partisan voters want to see a fight, so they will blame the Republicans for not "wanting" it enough, whatever it is. So now Johnson will probably start a fight they'll probably lose. Doubly so with the Senate not in Republican hands.

I'm basically pre-registering my hypothesis. It's unfortunate the country will probably run the experiment to see if I'm right.
posted by mark k at 11:25 AM on October 25, 2023 [5 favorites]

Exactly! Multiparty proportional representation systems with parliamentary coalition building work so much better. Like Israel. No, no, wait, I mean . . . the UK?

Ballot access laws in the United States are the real issue here. It's just a lot easier to create a political party in other countries and get on the ballot.
posted by rhymedirective at 11:25 AM on October 25, 2023 [4 favorites]

Does mean a shutdown is ensured rather mostly likely, so that’s guaranteed to suck rather than probably going to suck. Hopefully there’s some kind of strategy around that on the Dem side.

I'm not sure what strategy there might be for them. It's either agree to slicing Social Security, Medicare, etc. to the bone or be accused of obstructionism and trying to shut down the government. With a far-right nutjob in the speakership, the Dems are faced with either taking a big bite out of a shit sandwich, a big drink out of the latrine in order to avoid a shutdown. Flip a coin.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:26 AM on October 25, 2023 [1 favorite]

the uk is single-member fptp, so irrelevant, and israel is a goddamned and hyperspecific shitshow that should never be used as a case to generalize from.

if you want to generalize generalize from horses (the e.u., many countries in the e.u.) rather than from zebras.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 11:27 AM on October 25, 2023 [7 favorites]

and he has less than a month to figure out something that his party will pass. McCarthy got ousted for cooperating with Democrats on a continuing resolution

They effectively have less than 3 weeks before a shutdown.
My guess is Johnson got the votes by noting that if he makes ANY deals with a Democrat or even a too far to the left GOPer ( not that there are any ) he'll get ousted. heck I'll even go as far as saying that even if somehow he gets bills passed to stop the shutdown, they might just oust him to cause the shutdown.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 11:28 AM on October 25, 2023 [4 favorites]

I don't see any way to avoid it. Johnson's only been in Congress for 6 years, and he has less than a month to figure out something that his party will pass. McCarthy got ousted for cooperating with Democrats on a continuing resolution. Johnson has a basically impossible task in front of him. Democrats should be ready to cooperate on reasonable measures, but should not agree to something crazy just to avoid a shut down - after all, the Senate will reject anything extreme.

Presenting something extreme and then badmouthing the Senate for its refusal to accept it is part of the Republican brand.

Johnson's initial plan, according to what I'm seeing on social media, is to scrap the CR framework going forward and pass twelve individual appropriations bills over the next several months. "If another stopgap measure is needed," he proposes that it last through January or April depending on what can get negotiated. So if this is accurate, it would be one last CR before they go to the mattresses.
posted by delfin at 11:29 AM on October 25, 2023 [4 favorites]

So if this is accurate, it would be one last CR before they go to the mattresses.

Early on I predicted that they'd have 3 CRs, and then come to a deal in January. Lasting thru April? if they actually were going to spend the time to legislate, sure, but I see at least one vote to vacate between now and April.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 11:33 AM on October 25, 2023 [1 favorite]

As a federal employee I sure look forward to even more weeks of not knowing on a daily basis whether any of my colleagues or I will have a paycheck tomorrow.
posted by caution live frogs at 11:35 AM on October 25, 2023 [34 favorites]

And this is what we will face until there's an all GOP gov't
When Jeffries began to conclude his remarks and noted bluntly that Joe Biden won the 2020 presidential election, Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) yelled, “No, he didn’t! No, he didn’t! Nope!” -- Source
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 11:36 AM on October 25, 2023 [7 favorites]

What's happened is that somebody got the House Republicans to do a party-line vote. For the first time in the last couple of weeks, there were no defections. What happened, who said what to who, I don't think we know yet.

This also means that the allegedly-centrist holdouts: Bacon, Miller-Meeks, Buck, Fitzpatrick, the new people from New York, all switched over to vote for a speaker who could easily be a minor character in the Handmaid's Tale.

In November 2024, it becomes another point against these Republicans running in competitive districts. Most voters have already made up their minds, but in the very thin demographic of "disaffected former Republican voters", this is the sort of thing that gets them to change teams, or more likely, to stay home and not vote.

Silver lining: we might finally, finally see that Omaha district flip to the Democrats. Add a couple more seats on top of that, and that helps Democrats take the House back.

(Between now and then, there will still be misbehavior, outrage and general stupidity from the House Republicans...but that was going to happen anyway.)
posted by gimonca at 11:42 AM on October 25, 2023 [10 favorites]

If a football player came off the field and said 'we would have won if the other team were on our side', you would rush them to an MRI machine to find out what happened to their brain. Yet this is the talking point republicans decided to go with to blame their dysfunction on democrats. My immediate follow up to that asinine statement would be to ask 'would you ever vote for Pelosi?' and force them to admit they are full of shit.
posted by adept256 at 11:52 AM on October 25, 2023 [33 favorites]

Do the various House committees retain their former chairs - like is Jordan automatically back running Judiciary, or is that an upcoming horse-trading thing to be negotiated?
posted by Rumple at 11:54 AM on October 25, 2023

Johnson's initial plan, according to what I'm seeing on social media, is to scrap the CR framework going forward and pass twelve individual appropriations bills over the next several months. "If another stopgap measure is needed," he proposes that it last through January or April depending on what can get negotiated. So if this is accurate, it would be one last CR before they go to the mattresses.

Dragging their shitshow deep into an election year instead of burying it with a quick budget passage now in a moment when all the Republican factions can claim some kind of face-saving fig leaf victory is probably not a great move but proceed, Speaker
posted by jason_steakums at 11:56 AM on October 25, 2023 [8 favorites]

is to scrap the CR framework going forward and pass twelve individual appropriations bills over the next several months

Worth noting that 12 separate bills is the "normal" way of doing things, and continuing resolutions or omnibus appropriations bills are what happens when Congresscritters fuck around and run out of time to get all 12 bills discussed, written, reconciled with the Senate versions, and passed. This usually takes (AFAICT) a good chunk of the year, so Johnson is trying to speedrun this.
posted by soundguy99 at 12:03 PM on October 25, 2023 [4 favorites]

More on this dude:

Mike Johnson — the new Speaker of the House — wrote in an op-ed that same-sex marriage would, "place our entire democratic system in jeopardy." He claims that, "homosexual relationships are inherently unnatural and, the studies clearly show, are ultimately harmful and costly for everyone." He also claims that same-sex marriage will ultimately result in, "a person to marry his pet."

Which is a little extra even for GOP.
posted by Artw at 12:03 PM on October 25, 2023 [11 favorites]

Viciously anti-LGBTQ+ Rep. Mike Johnson elected as new House Speaker (LGBTQNation). Most Republicans are anti-LGBT, sure, but Johnson is a true believer.
posted by Nelson at 12:13 PM on October 25, 2023 [6 favorites]

TFG, returning from lunch break at his fraud trial, says Johnson will be "a great speaker of the House and we were very happy to help.
“At this time yesterday nobody was thinking of Mike, and then we put out the word and now he’s the Speaker of the House.”

Did he put out any word? His word didn't seem to work for Jordan.
posted by MtDewd at 12:17 PM on October 25, 2023 [2 favorites]

Christ What an Asshole. 2023 Nominee.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:19 PM on October 25, 2023 [1 favorite]

GOP Finally Settles on Abject Lunatic for Speaker (Discourse Blog)
posted by box at 12:24 PM on October 25, 2023 [8 favorites]

Did he put out any word?

Tepidly - from Politico: “I am not going to make an Endorsement in this race, because I COULD NEVER GO AGAINST ANY OF THESE FINE AND VERY TALENTED MEN, all of whom have supported me, in both mind and spirit, from the very beginning of our GREAT 2016 Victory,” Trump posted to Truth Social Wednesday morning. “My strong SUGGESTION is to go with the leading candidate, Mike Johnson.”

His word didn't seem to work for Jordan.

Jordan's put a lot of time and effort into being an asshole.
posted by soundguy99 at 12:27 PM on October 25, 2023 [1 favorite]

Sure, blame it on the democrats. Weird flex, but ok.

Democrats ousted McCarthy, the vote was 208 Democrats to 8 Republicans. The reasoning was they expected some one less bad (false), expected more chaos (false), couldn't imagine someone worse being elected, or assumed that the motions to remove McCarthy would keep coming until he was removed , absent them doing anything (possible). The worst possibility came through, at least on paper. MAGA won. Again.
posted by The_Vegetables at 12:28 PM on October 25, 2023 [1 favorite]

"Listen, all of you! You've got to take direction! You've got to have discipline! You've got to have respect for your director!"
[notices Snoopy]

-Lucy Van Pelt.
posted by clavdivs at 12:32 PM on October 25, 2023 [6 favorites]

> Democrats ousted McCarthy, the vote was 208 Democrats to 8 Republicans. The reasoning was they expected some one less bad (false), expected more chaos (false), couldn't imagine someone worse being elected, or assumed that the motions to remove McCarthy would keep coming until he was removed , absent them doing anything (possible). The worst possibility came through, at least on paper. MAGA won. Again.

bull also shit. the reasoning was that voting for a hard right republican speaker is stupid — anyone who props the fucker up gets his sleaze on them — and if the republicans want an even worse shitheel let them own it.

government shutdowns are stupid and unpopular and propping up mccarthy wouldn't prevent any government shutdowns because the fuckers who put johnson in the speaker's chair would have demanded and received a shutdown anyway.

none of what the fuckers are about to do is popular and all of what they're about to do will torpedo 2024 for them and all of what the fuckers say will torpedo 2024 for them and none of what the fuckers do will cause damage through action because the senate and biden can step on any action they try to take and propping up mccarthy wouldn't have prevented the harm through inaction that the fuckers have coming down the pike for us. all it would have done was split the blame for the fuckery. and with this nasty piece of work as the public face of the party — or at least, the second public face, the one backing up the screaming bald man — it has been made perfectly clear who the republicans are and perfectly clear who is to blame for it.

maga lost, and they lost hard.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 12:35 PM on October 25, 2023 [35 favorites]

Democrats ousted McCarthy, the vote was 208 Democrats to 8 Republicans.

Something is very off with your math here. the vote was 216 to 210, with eight Rs voting with the Ds to oust him. If those Rs had voted to keep him, he would have remained in Speakership. Democrats did not oust McCarthy, eight Republicans did.
posted by hippybear at 12:36 PM on October 25, 2023 [36 favorites]

Democrats ousted McCarthy, the vote was 208 Democrats to 8 Republicans. The reasoning was they expected some one less bad (false), expected more chaos (false), couldn't imagine someone worse being elected, or assumed that the motions to remove McCarthy would keep coming until he was removed , absent them doing anything (possible).

Literally none of the above is true.

The responsibility to confirm a speaker lies with the majority. It's not the Democrats.

There was no "reasoning" like you imply other than "Democrats voted to remove a Republican speaker and voted to select a Democrat speaker."

Whether MAGA won again remains to be seen, but the vast majority of the comment is demonstrably off base.
posted by tclark at 12:37 PM on October 25, 2023 [19 favorites]

The reasoning was they expected some one less bad (false), expected more chaos (false), couldn't imagine someone worse being elected, or assumed that the elections to remove McCarthy would keep coming until he was removed , absent them doing anything (possible).

To paraphrase Luke Skywalker......every word you just said was wrong.

No one expected someone less bad.
Everyone expected more chaos.
Everyone knew someone way worse could be elected (Jordan and Scalise were RIGHT THERE!)

Democrats didn't file the motion to vacate. Democrats didn't force McCarthy to agree to rules which made motions to vacate inevitable. Democrats aren't the party with the majority.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 12:38 PM on October 25, 2023 [34 favorites]

The Ghosts of Christmas Past, Present, and Future should unionize. They are going to be worked hard this year.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 12:39 PM on October 25, 2023 [7 favorites]

Biden seems to think the can work with the Speaker.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 12:41 PM on October 25, 2023

> "Multiparty proportional representation systems with parliamentary coalition building work so much better. Like Israel. No, no, wait, I mean . . . the UK?"

I am honestly baffled that you somehow read a statement indicating that in spite of American beliefs, a two-party system is not a natural law in a first-past-the-post system, and that the U.S. is actually kind of historically weird that way, as being an endorsement of any other countries' governments as therefore being "better".
posted by kyrademon at 12:43 PM on October 25, 2023 [2 favorites]

Biden is currently chatting with the Australian PM. During his visit Albanese was supposed to be addressing a joint session of congress, but that was cancelled because of all this bullshit. I wonder if that's back on, or is the speaker going to snub America's most consistent ally. The last Australian PM to address congress was Julia Gillard twelve years ago.

The race is on to send money to Israel of course. They have F-35s and two carrier groups on loan while their opponents have homemade rockets. Let's hope the money reaches them in time. Meanwhile Ukraine has been bombarded everyday since last February, but we really need to think hard about that comrade.
posted by adept256 at 12:52 PM on October 25, 2023 [3 favorites]

Blaming Democrats for this mess is a very I-didn't-expect-the-leopards-to-eat-my-face take on the situation.

I'm so sorry the minority party didn't come to the rescue when the GOP dumpster fire became an uncontrollable conflagration of their own incompetence. Of course Democrats should have selflessly propped up all those Republicans who lacked the necessary vertebra to effectively govern.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 12:53 PM on October 25, 2023 [20 favorites]

Democrats voted to remove a Republican speaker

Who had already fucked them over multiple times including less than 24 hours after the Dems bailed him out by voting for the crappy CR. (He went on the Sunday news shows and tried to claim the brinkmanship of shutdown was all the Dem's fault.)

People get all mad that the Dems won't play hardball - well, this was the Dems playing hardball. McCarthy buries a landmine (1 person motion to vacate) in his own path, and then runs right over it, and spends most of his tenure fucking over the House Dems and the White House in various ways? Hey, fuck you, McCarthy, we don't trust you, you're out. The R's spend almost a fucking month very publicly behaving like toddlers trying to pick a new Speaker? Golly, if it isn't the consequences of your own actions, too fucking bad for you.

There's zero chance they didn't know the next Speaker would be just as bad if not worse than McCarthy. That doesn't mean telling McCarthy to fuck off was the wrong play.
posted by soundguy99 at 12:55 PM on October 25, 2023 [64 favorites]

I'm so sorry the minority party didn't come to the rescue when the GOP dumpster fire became an uncontrollable conflagration of their own incompetence. Of course Democrats should have selflessly propped up all those Republicans who lacked the necessary vertebra to effectively govern.

Basically, the GOP ultimately expects the Democrats to bail them out to keep the country running. This ranges from structural (the tendency for Democrat administrations to fix GOP deficits) to dealing with a president who wants to have an insurrection.

McCarthy expecting them to bail him out (under the treat of someone worse taking the gavel) is simply on brand.
posted by MrGuilt at 12:59 PM on October 25, 2023 [36 favorites]

Biden seems to think the can work with the Speaker.

In other words, Biden gave a completely unsurprising mostly neutral statement that any President except TFG would be expected to make. Equating deliberately anodyne public statements while on a foreign visit with what any president "seems to think" is a mug's game.

It seems like just a few short days ago that some were blaming the Democrats pre-emptively for caving to the Republicans; now it's that they didn't unite with them to save McCarthy, of all people. Sheesh.
posted by Gelatin at 1:06 PM on October 25, 2023 [31 favorites]

'It was so unfair, the other team wouldn't let us win'.

Do you know what year it is son? Can you count to ten? Someone get the doctor.
posted by adept256 at 1:08 PM on October 25, 2023 [3 favorites]

the republican party congressional delegation (2023, colorized)
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 1:08 PM on October 25, 2023 [3 favorites]

The Democrats came out of this with better party cohesion, a warning to any Republican Speaker that they definitely won't bail them out if they renege on deals like McCarthy (even if that warning falls on deaf ears), Jeffries solidifying his leadership and coming off as an impressive successor to Pelosi, the Republicans doing at least some political damage to themselves among the suburban centrist crowd, and a Republican party that's basically functionally the same threat as before (you think McCarthy wasn't going to let the nuts run wild with challenges to the election results next year?) except with some more pressure applied to divisions in the party and probably a bunch of new interpersonal grudges in the GOP. That's not really the MAGA crowd winning.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:11 PM on October 25, 2023 [24 favorites]

Oh and a big public demonstration of the Republicans defying Trump on Jordan! That's not nothing.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:14 PM on October 25, 2023 [11 favorites]

That was delicious. Yum yum yum. I would wake up listening to I Got You Babe for the rest of eternity if it meant watching Jordan lose over and over and over...
posted by adept256 at 1:18 PM on October 25, 2023 [3 favorites]

you think McCarthy wasn't going to let the nuts run wild with challenges to the election results next year?

Technically the Congressional certification that Trump tried to disrupt happens with the new Congress, who are seated on Jan 3. So if Dems take the House, whichever ripe suck the Republicans have as Speaker through 2024 can't do shit, at least as far as allowing the Chaos Monkey Caucus to raise objections.
posted by soundguy99 at 1:23 PM on October 25, 2023 [4 favorites]

With every GOP member voting for Johnson it's even more clear that the noes didn't object to Jim Jordan's extremism or his participation in a coup attempt. They just don't like Jordan on a personal level.
posted by tclark at 1:25 PM on October 25, 2023 [25 favorites]

They just don't like Jordan on a personal level.

Finally some bipartisan agreement.
posted by mazola at 1:34 PM on October 25, 2023 [29 favorites]

There are as-of-yet-undiscovered alien species on distant planets who don't like Jordan on a personal level.
posted by delfin at 1:36 PM on October 25, 2023 [13 favorites]

Johnson opposed the election, but didn't oppose Mcarthy.
He hates the gays, but let members "vote their conscience"
He's a team player, from oil country and the piney woods, where colonization is still ongoing. He has been studying to be an attorney for the plantation owners, but has never really worked a day in this life. He will seek to gut environmental laws.

Welcome to the pine plantation, USA. Pray for Shreveport. With love from Louisiana.
posted by eustatic at 1:40 PM on October 25, 2023 [13 favorites]

> a two-party system is not a natural law in a first-past-the-post system, and that the U.S. is actually kind of historically weird that way,

a two-party system is an extremely strong tendency in a fptp system, because once there's more than two viable parties in any particular electoral race the results become bad random chaos and stay bad random chaos for each subsequent election in that district until the viable parties are reduced to two or one. regional variations can happen, with races in those regions having a different two viable parties or one viable party than the nation as a whole, and it is a tendency rather than a law, but once again it is an extremely strong tendency.

oh and regional variation is sharply reduced if there's any meaningful nation-wide elections.

the fun thing is that ranked choice voting tallied via instant runoff displays precisely the same tendencies as fptp, plus a soupçon of extra total chaos during the more-than-two parties phase, but that is a conversation for a whole nother derail altogether.

anyway if you need me i'll be on my user page updating my comprehensive list of weird stands, because i just realized i forgot to mention sortition.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 1:47 PM on October 25, 2023 [8 favorites]

Not liking the combination of a house loss being a democracy ending disaster and this North Carolina gerrymander.
posted by Artw at 1:51 PM on October 25, 2023 [4 favorites]

Can the house change the "it only takes one to kick him out rule?"
posted by Marky at 2:03 PM on October 25, 2023 [1 favorite]

Can the house change the "it only takes one to kick him out rule?"

Can? Sure.
Will? And remove the power the 8 GOPers have? Unlikely.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 2:06 PM on October 25, 2023 [4 favorites]

There are other ways in which the US two-party straitjacket is unique. I mean, registering as D or an R... wtf? Why is party allegiance something to bake in?

The US party system often seems to be more about identity and/or ideology, and less about policy. I'm Canadian; it's quite often done here that a voter will switch their vote based on policy options or dissatisfaction with the existing government.
posted by Artful Codger at 2:22 PM on October 25, 2023 [2 favorites]

There are other ways in which the US two-party straitjacket is unique. I mean, registering as D or an R... wtf? Why is party allegiance something to bake in?

In a general election, anyone can vote for any party, but in a lot of states, and this is not uniform across the country, you can only vote in a primary if you are registered with a party, and you can only vote in that party's primary. The idea being that a party primary should be decided by members of the party while the general election is decided by everyone.

This is different in different states, with some states having an open primary that selects one candidate from each party for the general election, and other states having "top two" primaries, which can result is both people running in a general election being from the same party if the other party only came in third.
posted by hippybear at 2:28 PM on October 25, 2023 [4 favorites]

Ha'aretz: New House Speaker Mike Johnson, an Evangelical Christian, Holds Ties to Israel’s Far Right
(archive)

Louisiana Rep. Mike Johnson described his 2020 visit to Jerusalem’s Temple Mount as ‘the fulfillment of a biblical prophecy’; his election is the most significant victory to date for evangelicals in D.C.

...Johnson traveled to Israel in February 2020 with an under-the-radar group called the 12Tribe Films Foundation...Johnson’s first stop on his Abelow-organized visit was to the Kohelet Policy Forum – the conservative think tank that has been an essential partner to the government’s efforts to weaken the judiciary.

The fourth-term congressman also visited the Temple Mount compound alongside Yehudah Glick, a former Likud lawmaker who has led the fight to change the status quo and permit Jewish prayer at the flash point Jerusalem holy site – in opposition to both official Israeli government policy as well as that of the international community, particularly the Biden administration and Jordan.
posted by mediareport at 2:40 PM on October 25, 2023 [7 favorites]

It seems like just a few short days ago that some were blaming the Democrats pre-emptively for caving to the Republicans; now it's that they didn't unite with them to save McCarthy, of all people. Sheesh.

It's....

You can always find someone to object to anything. Crazification Factor and all that (a term that's now 18 years old). What matters more is if reporters think that objective is notable enough to surface, and that too could be almost anyone with that as their job title. Then others, often on social media, can then point to two opposite statements made by different reporters and then claim they're damned if they do or don't, with their own agendas in mind.

Nearly everyone speaking their thoughts aloud has their own thumb on the scales, and often it's the people claiming to be the most impartial (like the NYT), seeking to make themselves seem the most unconcerned, who are the ones to watch the most carefully, because through their appearance of impartiality they may end up being seen as the ones providing objective facts.
posted by JHarris at 2:47 PM on October 25, 2023 [5 favorites]

his election is the most significant victory to date for evangelicals in D.C.

I feel like this is overstating things, I mean you had Pence, you had Trump who wasn't a believer but would have given the evangelicals anything for his benefit, you had pretty much the entire GWB administration

But yiiiiiikes to someone describing their own visit to a place as "fulfillment of a biblical prophecy"
posted by jason_steakums at 2:48 PM on October 25, 2023 [14 favorites]

The United States (and perhaps other countries; I wouldn't know) are home to a certain breed of Christians who are way too enthusiastic about Israel. As a Jew, I do not trust these Christians. I do not believe they are on my side.
posted by Faint of Butt at 2:55 PM on October 25, 2023 [41 favorites]

I'm not going to listen to Mike Johnson's podcast (with his wife Kelly Johnson, a Licensed Pastoral Counselor (not to be confused with a Licensed Professional Counselor)), but one could.
posted by box at 3:00 PM on October 25, 2023

As a Jew, I do not trust these Christians. I do not believe they are on my side.

If by "on your side" you mean "believe that only once the Temple is rebuilt can Jesus come back so everything that can be done to make that happen must be done, and once he comes back he will demand specifically that all the Jews convert to Christianity", then yes, they're on your side.
posted by hippybear at 3:04 PM on October 25, 2023 [10 favorites]

Comment removed. If folks have concerns that an account has been hacked, please contact the mods via the Contact Form, otherwise please don't cast aspersions on other users.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 3:14 PM on October 25, 2023 [4 favorites]

As a Jew, I do not trust these Christians. I do not believe they are on my side.

High five, my friend: as a Catholic, I do not believe these "Christians" are on my side. Let's watch each other's back?
posted by wenestvedt at 3:19 PM on October 25, 2023 [37 favorites]

As a mainline Protestant, I do not believe these...

Just kidding, I'm a lifelong atheist, I just wanted to keep the thing going.
posted by box at 3:50 PM on October 25, 2023 [15 favorites]

As a queer trans woman, I know these people are trying to kill me
posted by Jacen at 3:56 PM on October 25, 2023 [39 favorites]

As a cis gay man, I'm also on that list.
posted by hippybear at 3:57 PM on October 25, 2023 [19 favorites]

As a cis het white man... Most of us are on that list. Certainly not for the same reasons for sure, but...

OBEY or suffer the consequences...

The next year feels like it is going to be interesting times, sadly.
posted by Windopaene at 4:30 PM on October 25, 2023 [7 favorites]

As I understood it, McCarthy set it up so that a single representative could file for a motion to vacate, then there would be a vote. My sense was that it only applied for him, as part of negotiations to become Speaker. Is that rule still in place for Johnson, or are more members required to file?
posted by Pronoiac at 4:35 PM on October 25, 2023

But yiiiiiikes to someone describing their own visit to a place as "fulfillment of a biblical prophecy"

I also remember when I was 9 years old and read the Book of Revelation for the first time.
posted by clawsoon at 4:41 PM on October 25, 2023 [5 favorites]

"I was at that show! They started playing Terrapin Station and it ALL MADE SENSE!!!"
posted by Windopaene at 4:54 PM on October 25, 2023 [5 favorites]

Is that rule still in place for Johnson, or are more members required to file?

Yup. Still in place. AFAIK the rule could be changed by a vote of the whole House, but for now Johnson still has that sword over his head.
posted by soundguy99 at 5:00 PM on October 25, 2023 [5 favorites]

I also remember when I was 9 years old and read the Book of Revelation for the first time.

By way of a nearby thread, an interesting take on the Book of Revelation.

Spoiler: It was 1 AD politics.
posted by rochrobbb at 5:00 PM on October 25, 2023 [9 favorites]

Where is the actual rule? I would like to read it. It's always described as letting "any member file a motion to vacate", but that sounds unlikely (even Dems?).
posted by ryanrs at 5:08 PM on October 25, 2023

From NPR:
After introduction, a lawmaker would have to go to the House floor and request a vote on the resolution, which would be considered privileged and therefore require a vote to occur within two legislative days. Party leadership can determine the timing of the vote, and it could happen as soon as it's introduced. - Source

So yeah the Dems could call one but they'd lose, as the GOP holds the majority.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 5:20 PM on October 25, 2023 [3 favorites]

Summary of the rule changes:

Restoration of the Motion to Vacate the Chair
The House may remove its Speaker via a motion to vacate the Chair, which is agreed to by a simple majority vote. Throughout most of the history of the House, any Member could force a vote on the Speakership since the question was privileged, meaning it takes precedence over other business. (However, the House has never removed a Speaker.) Under the previous Democratic majority, the House changed rules to afford the motion privilege only if a party caucus or conference voted for its leader to offer it. The rules package for the 118th Congress removed the provision conferring status on the motion only if offered by party leadership, meaning any Member may now offer a privileged motion to vacate the Chair.

On my phone so links to PDFs don't work so great, but if you Google "House rules 118th Congress" you should easily find the full 55 page document of the changes from the last set of House rules.
posted by soundguy99 at 5:24 PM on October 25, 2023 [3 favorites]

thanks!
posted by ryanrs at 5:51 PM on October 25, 2023 [1 favorite]

> I'm not going to listen to Mike Johnson's podcast ...

Ugh. What are the odds that something damaging to him is contained therein? I'm not listening either, but I have tools for making transcripts.
posted by Pronoiac at 5:55 PM on October 25, 2023

What are the odds that something damaging to him is contained therein

Like how Gaetz and Santos and etc etc etc, faced consequences for their 'something damaging?'
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 6:28 PM on October 25, 2023 [3 favorites]

First he stole donors' money, and now he is trying to steal California's rifle!
posted by ryanrs at 6:31 PM on October 25, 2023

Define damaging.

He's a raging homophobe/transphobe, a Christian nationalist, an election denier directly involved in Trump's post-election skullduggery, an Independent Legislature theory crackpot, a Young Earth Creationist, a climate-change denier, a fervent anti-choice crusader who's cosponsored three bills that would ban abortion nationally, a vaccine skeptic, vocal about shutting off all aid to Ukraine, and wants to slash "bloated" Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and food stamp programs. He wants prayer into public schools and anything progressive or diverse out of them. He's anti-immigration, anti-union, and anti-just about anything that might give ordinary Americans a better life.

None of that hurt him with his fellow Republicans. If anything, he scored points for presenting all of that abhorrence in a clean-cut, professional manner rather than chewing scenery on the regular ala Jordan.
posted by delfin at 6:32 PM on October 25, 2023 [33 favorites]

I mean, I'm entirely not sure what "party membership" means in someplace like the UK, but doing a few web searches tells me that there are maybe only around 1 million people who are actually members of various political parties there, in a country of 66+ million. I think in the UK, party members are the people who pick the different people who run for offices at various levels. So is that better than the US system? I have no idea

Not sure for the UK. But in Canada, which shares a lot of parliamentary traditions, party members are those who bought a card to be a member. Selection for candidates for each riding will vary amongst party, usually the member vote in local assemblies but that’s not codified by law, some parties will have leadership assign favorable ridings to “star candidates” and it’ll be approved, in other parties it can be opposed vigorously. Party leadership usually has the right to open expel candidates during the campaign if various allegations surface (there almost always at least one), but this has to be serious and follow party bylaws. Party leader selection will either be vote from all members or vote from representative selected by ridings during local elections (organized by the party).

I hope they’ll triple security around Biden/Harris because holy crap….
posted by WaterAndPixels at 6:37 PM on October 25, 2023 [2 favorites]

It's a tragedy that those who should be working to strengthen a nation, who should protect and serve the common folk, who should be focused on the real, existential threats that lap around our feet, refuse to do so. Instead, they play with people and politics as if the outcome didn't matter.

A magnificent summary of a terrifyingly low point in the history of participatory democracy. Thanks, OP.
posted by nfalkner at 6:42 PM on October 25, 2023 [4 favorites]

Oh, I am heartily tired of hearing about what Lee is going to do. Some of you always seem to think he is suddenly going to turn a double somersault, and land in our rear and on both of our flanks at the same time. Go back to your command, and try to think what we are going to do ourselves, instead of what Lee is going to do.— Ulysses S. Grant at the Battle of the Wilderness

posted by kirkaracha at 6:51 PM on October 25, 2023 [32 favorites]

...Johnson traveled to Israel in February 2020 with an under-the-radar group called the 12Tribe Films Foundation...Johnson’s first stop on his Abelow-organized visit was to the Kohelet Policy Forum – the conservative think tank that has been an essential partner to the government’s efforts to weaken the judiciary.

Jim Jordan was on that same trip (pics); Abelow also interviewed the congressmen for his podcast, The Pulse of Israel -- Jordan & Johnson on Feb. 20, 2020 and Johnson on March 19, 2023.
posted by Iris Gambol at 6:55 PM on October 25, 2023 [6 favorites]

So basically putting either Jordan or Johnson in this position is moving the Dominionists closer to gaining control of this particular Pillar Of Power that they need to control in order for Jesus to come back. That's nice.
posted by hippybear at 6:59 PM on October 25, 2023 [7 favorites]

Johnson might change his tune when he realizes that the war in Ukraine means a lot of jobs in his district. All those artillery shells we’re making rely on the country’s only black powder factory in Minden. Also Republicans are facing a tough election for the House. He’s going to need to keep those contributions from Boeing, Lockheed, etc going.
posted by interogative mood at 7:00 PM on October 25, 2023 [2 favorites]

Might as well refer to the Republican party as the Evangelical party, because the popular dogma that is now their vehicle to total power. Dominionists have been at this for a long time. In clown car politics, the clowns don't need to validate their own self-righteousness if they are driving the car.
posted by Brian B. at 7:00 PM on October 25, 2023 [7 favorites]

Johnson might change his tune when he realizes that the war in Ukraine means a lot of jobs in his district.

That's assuming he believes his local republicans will vote in their interest.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:07 PM on October 25, 2023 [2 favorites]

Ugh. What are the odds that something damaging to him is contained therein? I'm not listening either, but I have tools for making transcripts.

I'm game. So we start at the most recent episode 69, baby. He introduces his guest, some guy from the heritage foundation, and after the mutual fellatio the first thing this guy says is 'Joe McCarthy has been badly treated by history. He made some mistakes, but there really were communists'. Then he tells a story about drinking tea with biscuits with Reagan in his personal library. It's a super dull story but he tells it with the reverence of someone who met Jesus. This isn't turning out to be an Alex Jones rollercoaster. These guys are incredibly tame and boring. You get the sense that tea with 'The Gipper' is as exciting as it's going to get. We're nine minutes in and I'm out.

I'm not staggering away from this with PTSD. It's just boring. Two white male conservatives talking about how great they are. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
posted by adept256 at 7:12 PM on October 25, 2023 [5 favorites]

To add further details to delfin's catalogue of "off-the-scale"

https://www.businessinsider.com/mike-johnson-covenant-marriage-definition-divorce-speaker-house-2023-10

wowser
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 7:32 PM on October 25, 2023 [2 favorites]

When the Republicans Party shows you what they are about, believe them.

I had never heard of this guy before this week. He is about the worst Republican you could Republican these days, without being MTG. Just, wow.
posted by Windopaene at 7:34 PM on October 25, 2023 [4 favorites]

rochrobbb: an interesting take on the Book of Revelation. Fascinating; contemporary events vs. prophecy.
posted by achrise at 7:52 PM on October 25, 2023 [1 favorite]

the first thing this guy says is 'Joe McCarthy has been badly treated by history. He made some mistakes, but there really were communists'

It's no wonder this guy is a McCarthy revisionist as he sounds about as unamerican as you can get.

And if there really is a God then they will make this a thread filled with all the ridiculous unamerican hijinks this guy is into. Pretty sure the press will start finding the real dirt by this weekend.
posted by euphorb at 8:59 PM on October 25, 2023 [4 favorites]

Worst, easiest Mad Lib after any mass shooting: The [Army firearms instructor] with the [AR15] in the [bowling alley and bar].

Goddamn, kirkaracha .
posted by lizjohn at 10:06 PM on October 25, 2023 [4 favorites]

C-SPAN, July 14, 2022 (the month after Roe v. Wade was overturned), House Judiciary Committee meeting, Rep. Johnson @ 1:11:14, talking about having served as legal counsel for many crisis pregnancy centers.

[In law school, Johnson was elected president of the campus chapter of the Christian Legal Society. You may know CLS from hits like "A Woman’s Friend Pregnancy Resource Clinic v. [CA AG] Becerra", "Christian Legal Society of Hastings College of the Law v. Martinez", or that cake shop business.]

New House Speaker Once Blamed Abortions for Social Security, Medicare Cuts (The New Republic, Oct. 25, 2023) Mike Johnson tried to justify Republican cuts to the social safety net in the most inane way.

“Roe v. Wade gave constitutional cover to the elective killing of unborn children in America,” Johnson said, during a House Judiciary Committee hearing. “You think about the implications of that on the economy; we’re all struggling here to cover the bases of Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid and all the rest. If we had all those able-bodied workers in the economy, we wouldn’t be going upside down and toppling over like this,” he added.

Johnson has also co-sponsored at least three bills hoping to ban abortion at a nationwide level, including the Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act, the Protecting Pain-Capable Unborn Children From Late-Term Abortions Act, and the Heartbeat Protection Act of 2021, all of which carry criminal penalties of up to five years in prison for physicians who perform abortions.

posted by Iris Gambol at 10:42 PM on October 25, 2023 [7 favorites]

Here's a clue as to what happened:

“They got tired of the squabbling and dysfunction and wanted to get back to work,” Catie Edmondson, a Times congressional reporter, told us.

Mike Lawler, a relative moderate from New York, posted a photo on social media yesterday of him and Johnson shaking hands. “While there are issues where we differ, we must get back to governing for the good of the country,” Lawler wrote.

(Text is from the NYT)

Those "centrists" and "moderates" in the Republican party? Yeah, how'd that work out? They fell apart like a wet newspaper. Suddenly invertebrate, in this case.

It'll still be interesting to see if there were behind-the-scenes threats on them.
posted by gimonca at 3:42 AM on October 26, 2023 [6 favorites]

What Everyone Should Know About the House Speaker
posted by box at 5:21 AM on October 26, 2023 [5 favorites]

The Republican Party is no more.
posted by bluesky43 at 7:24 AM on October 26, 2023

Those core voters will think a shutdown is great until they lose SNAP (a.k.a. "food stamp") benefits because the Farm Bill hasn't passed, and they start getting laid off from construction projects because infrastructure funding approval has halted, and the Veteran's Administration & Social Security goes to minimal staffing so problems don't get sorted out in a timely manner, and and and.

Those same core voters have a built-in epistemological release valve for those situations that will protect their Republican identity. They will blame it all on Biden.
posted by Uncle Ira at 7:28 AM on October 26, 2023 [15 favorites]

TFG was ready to have the shutdown go on forever--until air traffic controllers started refusing to come to work, and he realized he might have to take a bus. This has happened before, recently.
posted by Melismata at 7:42 AM on October 26, 2023 [5 favorites]

The Republican Party is no more.

At this point it's either the Republican Party or the United States of America, and frankly I'm not as optimistic as you seem to be.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:49 AM on October 26, 2023 [4 favorites]

The Republican Party is no more.

Agreed, no way we haven't been witnessing an actual party schism, right? It has to be one of the basic reasons that Democrats continued to make no effort to caucus with a Republican minority to find a consensus Speaker of the House: when your adversary is pulling themselves apart, stay out of their way. And that party needs to split, I don't agree with any of them but the extreme wing of the party really no longer holds any common ground with any Republican who is not Christian fundamentalist, anti-democracy, MAGA etc.; they are no longer a working coalition by any definition, and that's all a political party really is.

But to admit this obvious reality means that all Republicans would have to split into one or another minority party, and we'd need parliamentary-style, cross-party caucusing that Americans just do not know how to do. (Nor would many stomach, we are too us-vs.-them, my-team-will-beat-your-team, ruthlessly competition-minded to do any multi-nodal legislative processes.)

I just don't see how the Republican Party steers its way out of this as a single political entity, because they can't work with themselves anymore so why even try to caucus (other than, awfully, a full-on swing to extremism, with the radical minority of the party pulling everyone off the cliff with them).

(Of course, voters could change things significantly, if somehow some of those red districts suddenly decide to send a different kind of Republican to Washington, but after spending a bit of time back in my native south Louisiana last week, that is not going to happen anytime soon.)
posted by LooseFilter at 8:40 AM on October 26, 2023 [2 favorites]

MediaITE article on right-wing complaints about new Trumpist speaker Johnson reminds us once again of conservatives' capacity for empathy only when it directly and personally affects them, and expressing that empathy outrages other conservatives who aren't personally affected.

Speaker Mike Johnson Condemned by Far-Right for Comments on His Black Son and George Floyd: ‘Undercover Democrat?’
posted by zaixfeep at 8:41 AM on October 26, 2023 [5 favorites]

Washington Post has a writeup on worries around Johnson and the 2024 elections. Scroll towards the end for the actionable items.

Short summary:

He could try to refuse to count specific Electoral Votes, similar to what conspirators were trying to pressure Pence into doing in 2020 (article says recent revisions to the Electoral Count Act since 2020 make this harder, but he could still try).

He could preside over a "contingent election" where no candidate manages to get to 270 electoral votes. This is based on one vote per state in the House, each state's delegation gets one vote. It's possible that Republicans would get to the needed number of state votes without extra help, but there could be several ways that a malicious person presiding as speaker might interfere.

In any of these scenarios, he could simply slow-walk or refuse to carry out the duties of the House, maybe just declare the House in recess and shut it down instead of counting votes. If this were to continue past Jan. 20, the current terms of Biden and Harris would expire, and he'd be the next person in line to succeed.

(I am neither advocating for any of these approaches nor implying that they'd be legitimate.)
posted by gimonca at 8:43 AM on October 26, 2023

Speaker Mike Johnson Condemned by Far-Right for Comments on His Black Son and George Floyd: ‘Undercover Democrat?’

Man, those are some seriously unhinged people.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:54 AM on October 26, 2023 [6 favorites]

But of course, the finalizing of the presidential election will take place under the next Congress, not this one, and so we just need to make sure the Ds are in charge of the House after the 2024 election and none of those possibilities will come into play.
posted by hippybear at 8:55 AM on October 26, 2023 [13 favorites]

"How did Johnson pull this off? Yeah so, he's a social conservative guy from Louisiana, and he's known as a nice guy..." - deep analysis from the NPR Politics Podcast Editor on Morning Edition this morning.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 8:57 AM on October 26, 2023

the finalizing of the presidential election will take place under the next Congress

Yes, good to bring out that point, thanks.
posted by gimonca at 9:23 AM on October 26, 2023 [4 favorites]

"How did Johnson pull this off? Yeah so, he's a social conservative guy from Louisiana, and he's known as a nice guy..." - deep analysis from the NPR Politics Podcast Editor on Morning Edition this morning.

"He really impressed us with the fact that he didn't send out death threats."
posted by clawsoon at 9:24 AM on October 26, 2023 [16 favorites]

New House speaker Mike Johnson has spoken with reporters on Capitol Hill, offering his prayers for those killed or wounded in Lewiston [ The Guardian live feed]:

“This is a dark time in America, we have a lot of problems and we’re really, really hopeful and prayerful,” he said.

“Prayer is appropriate in a time like this, that the evil can end, and this senseless violence can stop. And that’s the statement this morning on behalf of the entire House of Representatives. Everyone wants this to end.”

Johnson, however, did not specify how he thought lawmakers might act. Many Republicans in Congress have been vocal in their opposition to gun reforms proposed by Democrats.

posted by mazola at 11:04 AM on October 26, 2023

Huh. He sure had specific thoughts on the remedies for gun violence in the past, seemingly having to do with both Roe vs. Wade and the Scopes Trial.
posted by credulous at 11:24 AM on October 26, 2023 [2 favorites]

Agreed, no way we haven't been witnessing an actual party schism, right?

This has come up a bunch of times in this thread, and as much as I'd like it to be true, I don't quite know.

It was what -- 20-some-odd of them not willing to vote for a hyperradical insurrectionist (but, uhh, willing to vote for the more calm-sounding hyperradical insurrectionist now, who gave some of them a legal-sounding figleaf for their insurrection-enabling votes in 2021), and only 8 of them voting to vacate McCarthy. Which leaves nearly 200 of them happy to vote for both sides of this potential schism.

It has to be one of the basic reasons that Democrats continued to make no effort to caucus with a Republican minority to find a consensus Speaker of the House

I haven't managed to dig this up, but do members of the minority party ever vote for the majority's speaker? I'd thought the whole tradition of the speaker being vested with so much control over House business rested on them having the backing of a majority of the house made out of their party alone. But if I'm wrong about this (meaning across-the-aisle deals for the speaker role do sometimes get made), I'd love to know. My cursory search attempts to find this out for sure have just been swamped with recent news.
posted by nobody at 11:35 AM on October 26, 2023 [1 favorite]

Jay Kuo: So, the Dog Caught the Car Again

That sure sounds really bad. And there are good summaries out there today on the new Speaker Johnson that will leave your eyes wide and mouth agape, as pieces of his appalling record come to public light. I’ll cover some of that today, but I want to focus on five constructive ways to frame what his election means—and why it could be another case of careful-what-you-win for the GOP. Sometimes when the dog catches the car, as abortion foes did with Roe v. Wade, the consequences are quite high. I also hope this breakdown lets you breathe just a bit easier, despite this frightening win by the MAGA forces.

posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:45 AM on October 26, 2023 [10 favorites]

no way we haven't been witnessing an actual party schism, right?

I'm not so sure. It looks like a lot of the more moderate Republicans are just quitting politics altogether; so it's not so much a schism, it's more like an abandoning-to-the-worst-elements.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:46 AM on October 26, 2023 [15 favorites]

...it's more like an abandoning-to-the-worst-elements.

Eh. Is it really abandoning or simply recognizing there's no way in hell you can win a primary because the base has gone over a cliff and only wants one of their own?
posted by Thorzdad at 11:50 AM on October 26, 2023 [1 favorite]

Is it really abandoning or simply recognizing there's no way in hell you can win a primary because the base has gone over a cliff and only wants one of their own?

The difference for me is between "Well, shit, there's gotta be SOME kind of a voter base that is turned off by this and wants an alternative to the Democrats" and "fuck this, I'm retiring".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:56 AM on October 26, 2023 [2 favorites]

My fave is when they quit and THEN they complain about things. Like, yes, now you can talk now there’s nothing you can do about it, where was that before?
posted by Artw at 11:58 AM on October 26, 2023 [11 favorites]

Part of me enjoys watching the Republicans struggle and fuck up (2016 presidential primaries, this speaker shit, etc.). Sadly, the outcome is pretty much always bad for America/democracy/the world. It’s like there are brief windows where one can enjoy the guys talking shit on Pod Save America, but then they always end and things are just shitty and discouraging again.
posted by snofoam at 12:02 PM on October 26, 2023 [4 favorites]

The new speaker, Representative Mike Johnson of Louisiana, had an advantage over rivals because he has been a backbencher in the House fewer than eight years, too invisible to have made many enemies. He is the least-experienced speaker in more than a century. Senate Republicans openly admitted they didn’t know who he was. Senator Mitt Romney (R-UT) added: “Apparently experience isn’t necessary for the speaker job…. We’re down to folks who haven’t had leadership or chairmanship roles, which means their administration of the House will be a new experience for them.”

Democrats repeatedly offered to work with Republicans to elect a speaker who accepted the results of the 2020 presidential election and who agreed to bring to the floor for an up-or-down vote legislation that was widely popular in both parties. The Republicans rejected those offers. - Heather Cox Richardson, Letters from An American, Oct. 25, 2023
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:56 PM on October 26, 2023 [19 favorites]

I'm not so sure. It looks like a lot of the more moderate Republicans are just quitting politics altogether; so it's not so much a schism, it's more like an abandoning-to-the-worst-elements.

If so, the question is how many purplish districts will refuse to vote for the MAGA maniacs who replace these so-called moderates, thus tipping control of the House to the Democrats.

Who, should they not lose the Senate next year, absolutely must address the centure-old Apportionment Act of 1911, removing the cap on representatives and thus increasing representation for large population states, which would inevitably weaken Republican power.
posted by Gelatin at 1:08 PM on October 26, 2023 [8 favorites]

My fave is when they quit and THEN they complain about things. Like, yes, now you can talk now there’s nothing you can do about it, where was that before?

Mitt Romney to the white courtesy phone, please.
posted by Gelatin at 1:09 PM on October 26, 2023 [2 favorites]

you know a real benefit that i hadn't thought of before reading iris gambol's last comment is that the democrats have sharp eyes and will (one would hope) take advantage of procedural blunders from the inexperienced speaker to totally fuck up his all his shit.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 1:48 PM on October 26, 2023 [8 favorites]

His biggest advantage is that he has the looks and the smile to be a babyface. Jordan was only ever going to be a heel.
posted by clawsoon at 2:15 PM on October 26, 2023 [1 favorite]

clawsoon, so they found their Andrew Scheer? Let’s hope he’ll have just as much impact.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 2:44 PM on October 26, 2023 [3 favorites]

I’m getting that Rees Mogg haunted puppet vibe.
posted by Artw at 2:46 PM on October 26, 2023 [1 favorite]

absolutely must address the centure-old Apportionment Act of 1911, removing the cap on representatives and thus increasing representation for large population states, which would inevitably weaken Republican power.

Also, weaken the power of each individual Representative. So, good luck with that.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:22 PM on October 26, 2023 [3 favorites]

Democrats repeatedly offered to work with Republicans to elect a speaker who accepted the results of the 2020 presidential election and who agreed to bring to the floor for an up-or-down vote legislation that was widely popular in both parties.

Did the Democrats have a real chance at this? Did they fumble something here?
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 3:49 PM on October 26, 2023 [1 favorite]

No, there was no real chance at this; the House Republicans are all shitbags who'd appoint someone who was currently and nonconsensually comically-violent-act-ing them than actually work with Democrats on anyfuckingthing.

The only cooperation House Republicans would accept is "You do whatever we want and also you publicly admit that you're all stupid morons with ugly faces and big butts and your butts smell and you like to kiss your own butts."
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:23 PM on October 26, 2023 [9 favorites]

I haven't managed to dig this up, but do members of the minority party ever vote for the majority's speaker?

You kinda see this from time to time in the state legislatures, kinda, but with a very different spin.

You do see just-barely-minority parties being able to retain control of the chamber (TN House in the mid 2000s), and you do see legislative leaders who are able to assemble personal coalitions of members of both parties (Joe Straus in the TX House).

In no case are these "the majority's speakers," though. These sorts of instances make your average member of the majority party pig-biting mad because they don't get control of the chamber, some other coalition does. The whole point is to not have the speaker who would be selected by the majority party's median voter.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:39 PM on October 26, 2023 [3 favorites]

I think the inexperience is probably a feature for the Republican representatives who elected this guy, he's going to be far easier to push around than an experienced legislator working on this level. Watch for him promising conflicting things to the last few people who got him into private meetings and having it blow up in his face.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:42 PM on October 26, 2023 [1 favorite]

Watch for him promising conflicting things to whoever got him in a private meeting last and having it blow up in his face.

Surely this is just a repeat of McCarthy's repeatedly lying to opposing parties to get his deals done, which is something which was both complained widely about by both parties he was supposed to be overseeing in the House, and also is a business tactic which was widely touted by a former president in the Eighties, famously an era during which greed mattered more than personal character. This former president is about to lose all his businesses due to lying, so yeah... let's keep having governing personnel model their behavior on that particular approach.
posted by hippybear at 4:45 PM on October 26, 2023 [3 favorites]

What I don't understand about modern Republic Party members and their approach to government is, there used to be widely recognized that the art of politics was being able to win over people who opposed your position on something through charm and negotiation and so over time you'd come to win others over to your side and that is what made you a successful politician.

Their current model of successful politician seems to be playground bully. Which I'm not sure actually wins you what could be called support, but rather wins you grudging going-along-with. Which at its first opportunity will be abandoned.

Anyway, just not sure that bully is better than politician for getting real business done long-term.
posted by hippybear at 4:48 PM on October 26, 2023 [3 favorites]

I’m getting that Rees Mogg haunted puppet vibe.

Rees-Mogg is a haunted Victorian pencil, if you please
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:56 PM on October 26, 2023 [6 favorites]

(I guess somebody at Politico listened to Mike Johnson’s podcast.)
posted by box at 5:30 PM on October 26, 2023 [4 favorites]

There could be a good episode of SNL with guest Joe Pera playing Mike Johnson in various situations.
posted by hippybear at 6:58 PM on October 26, 2023 [1 favorite]

hippy bear: ...win over people who opposed your position on something through charm ...

Based on the evidence of recent events, I think your word "charm" there has an extra "c" at the beginning.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:18 PM on October 26, 2023

It's almost like you didn't read my comment to the end before you started writing, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
posted by hippybear at 7:24 PM on October 26, 2023

hippybear, I am only suggesting that they've been bullies for a long time -- for ever, probably.

I used to think that the model of "reach across the aisle" co-operators like McCain had been the norm once upon a time...but really they have been super rare for as long as I can remember. More common is LBJ's model of being the meanest bastard in the room, in every room, at all times.

*sigh* I have met some very principled people in politics, but national-level Republicans are just kind of a class apart...and they seem to think that's a good thing.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:34 PM on October 26, 2023 [1 favorite]

New House Speaker Mike Johnson (R-La.) told Fox News' Sean Hannity in his first interview as speaker that now is not the time to discuss legislation to address the scourge of mass shootings, adding: "The problem is the human heart, not guns."

Doing a good job making himself oily and hateable right off the mark.
posted by Artw at 6:46 AM on October 27, 2023 [10 favorites]

We're outlawing the human heart!
posted by jason_steakums at 7:19 AM on October 27, 2023 [9 favorites]

I guess that’s the problem with us other countries that have at least some basic health care and way fewer gun deaths: we’re just human heartless.
posted by eviemath at 7:29 AM on October 27, 2023 [11 favorites]

One day, people might actually get sick of these deeply bizarre answers.
posted by Selena777 at 7:42 AM on October 27, 2023 [1 favorite]

win over people who opposed your position on something through charm and negotiation and so over time you'd come to win others over to your side and that is what made you a successful politician.

Maybe kinda, when it comes to the public & voters & maybe elements of the media.

But the negotiation when it comes to legislation, creating and passing laws, the job of Congress, is often far more . . . mercenary, I guess. You've got something I want, I've got something you want, let's make a deal. Bob Smith from Massachusetts is never gonna win John Jones from North Dakota over to his positions on abortion or gun control, no matter how charming he is, but Jones wants $50 million in corn subsidies and Smith wants $14 million for bridge repair, so they agree to vote yes for each others' bills. It's far less "win someone over to your side" and far more "we can come to a collection of mutually beneficial agreements."

This might seem grubby and cynical and is hardly the stuff of inspiring speeches, but it's not anything new or modern - hell, the Magna Carta was basically "let's make a deal - you, King John, lower taxes on the nobility, and we, the nobility, won't raise up an army and rebel."

And very generally it mostly kinda works, at least in the sense of "democracy is the worst form of government – except for all the others that have been tried."

That's where a big chunk of modern Republicans are fucked up - they've spent so much time and effort demonizing (often quite literally, via conservative Christianity) Democrats that they now can't or won't make these sort of necessary deals. Some seem to be True Believers who actually think any cooperation with Democrats will lead to literal hell on Earth, and others might be willing to deal only their constituents are True Believers who will boot them out of office ASAP or quite literally kill them.

(The grim irony is that the Orange God-Emperor that they're all tied to claims to be great, the best, at making "deals", but his entire life & especially his Presidency demonstrated that he is in fact shit at making deals and only "succeeded" by lying, cheating, and bullying and being rich in the first place. But so now a bunch of Republican voters and politicians think that bullying is "making deals.")
posted by soundguy99 at 7:45 AM on October 27, 2023 [14 favorites]

they've spent so much time and effort demonizing (often quite literally, via conservative Christianity) Democrats that they now can't or won't make these sort of necessary deals. Some seem to be True Believers who actually think any cooperation with Democrats will lead to literal hell on Earth,

Agreed, they see liberals as evil, which gives a clue to their brand of theology that hails from the original deep assumptions of the dogma, drawing predictable conclusions. Evangelical Christianity acknowledges the downtrodden and the principle of personal charity, which they believe are never to change or alter, and never to solve with programs or progress. Instead they serve the down-trodders and the pittance-givers in full consistency with their beliefs. They see liberals as sin defenders who disbelieve in poverty and the righteousness of the powerful. To true believers, all human desperation leads to humility and then to true belief, and more. The sign of faith for Evangelicals is simply hoping for the soonest end of the world, thereby motivated to make this happen by degrading everything in their influence. This disaster cannot be overcome by appealing to sentimental parts of their beliefs, because Evangelicals are all in with the righteous anger, conditioned in childhood to see irrational punishment as love.
posted by Brian B. at 8:51 AM on October 27, 2023 [3 favorites]

Many Evangelicals don't believe anything like what you have described. Not all Evangelicals support Republicans either. Maybe let members of a religion speak for themselves about what they believe.

Mike Johnson seems like a guy who is selfish, prejudiced, and ignorant. That, not his religion, is the real issue.
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:44 PM on October 27, 2023

Politico.com: A Q&A with historian Kristin Kobes Du Mez on the Christian nationalist ideas that shaped House Speaker Mike Johnson.
posted by soundguy99 at 1:24 PM on October 27, 2023 [5 favorites]

Mike Johnson may think his kind of Christianity is the only Real True Christianity, just like the Taliban think they are the only Real True Muslims. But lots of other Christians and Muslims don't agree, and we don't have to echo those claims.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:29 PM on October 27, 2023 [6 favorites]

The quickest way to identify a Christian is that they think some other Christian isn't a real Christian.
posted by clawsoon at 2:31 PM on October 27, 2023 [8 favorites]

Maybe let members of a religion speak for themselves about what they believe.

Too late, we're being forced to adhere to their doctrines, so it's time to warn others about their behind the scenes political games (and stand-in autocrats). I note that when a movement believes in the inerrant literal meaning of a contained scripture, they blatantly ignore the hidden themes and subtext that is far more consistent and concise. It is incumbent on those who can read between the lines to inform them if they should want to know.
posted by Brian B. at 2:38 PM on October 27, 2023 [9 favorites]

New House speaker Mike Johnson praised ‘18th-century values’ in speech (Gruaduan)

In video footage of a forum hosted in 2013 by Louisiana Right to Life, an anti-abortion group, Johnson, a devout Baptist and then an attorney for rightwing groups and causes, is asked about the “condition of conscience” in Europe and Canada regarding abortion policy.

Saying he has just given “a seminar … to a bunch of high school kids in Shreveport”, Johnson quotes George Washington and John Adams, saying the first two presidents and other founders “told us that if we didn’t maintain those 18th-century values, that the republic would not stand, and this is the condition we find ourselves in today”.

posted by achrise at 4:00 PM on October 27, 2023 [1 favorite]

It's worth stating that white evangelicals share of the population dramatically declined over recent history, from 23% of the population in 2006 to 13.9% in 2022. Among those who left any religion 30% say they were turned off by negative teachings about LGTBQ people. A good number of people who were formerly Evangelical have been turned off by'18th century values'.
posted by StarkRoads at 6:55 PM on October 27, 2023 [19 favorites]

I'm very glad to hear of this, StarkRoads. But unfortunately, if the people who hold the really draconian values gain power through whatever means, it won't matter what percentages of the population hold whatever views -- the assholes will have won and will make sure to let everyone know it.
posted by hippybear at 7:45 PM on October 27, 2023 [3 favorites]

since it's halloweekend, if anyone wants a good scare, cnn has an opinion piece detailing the unlikely yet plausible scenarios that might lead to a failure of any 2024 presidential candidate to secure 270 electoral votes, wherein the constitution states that the president is chosen by the house of representatives:

Who in their right mind wants the House to pick our next president? [CNN Lite]
posted by glonous keming at 9:36 PM on October 27, 2023 [3 favorites]

Abortion is the common thread in 2023 elections. That’s bad news for Republicans.
posted by Artw at 4:00 PM on October 28, 2023 [5 favorites]

The House's new MAGA speaker was a final humiliation for the GOP's 'moderates‘
posted by Artw at 7:42 AM on October 29, 2023 [3 favorites]

Speaker Mike Johnson's Corporate Backers (Judd Legum's Popular Information)
The Christofascism of Mike Johnson (Noah Berlatsky for Aaron Rupar's Public Notice)
posted by box at 5:33 AM on October 30, 2023 [2 favorites]

The quickest way to identify a Christian is that they think some other Christian isn't a real Christian.

I was going to call BS on this, but in fact most mainstream Christians would not consider the Branch Davidians to be a truly Christian sect.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:42 AM on October 30, 2023

The reactionary Christians, on the other hand, delight in being exclusionary. Jack Chick made a career out of deriding Catholics as non-Christians, for example, as depicted in The Death Cookie.

The people who wanted Jordan and wholeheartedly approve of Johnson? They're cut from the same cloth. Jordan in particular has a verbal tic in which he constantly declares that Real America likes this and Real America hates that and Real America stands with him and his beliefs at all times.

It's sort of like a country song come to life -- you know, the kind of modern "I have a gun and a truck and a flag and a Bible and a barefoot wife and another gun and a dog and that makes me American" country song that might make Willie Nelson throw up in one of his boots.
posted by delfin at 10:28 AM on October 30, 2023 [3 favorites]

Newly minted Speaker of the House Mike Johnson thinks it’s too easy to get divorced, and he’d like to change that. (Mother Jones, Oct. 26)
How Mike Johnson’s “Covenant Marriage” Helps Explain His Politics (Slate, Oct. 30) The new House speaker launched his political career with his wife—as the faces of a radical marital strategy.

posted by Iris Gambol at 12:30 PM on October 30, 2023 [2 favorites]

The House's new MAGA speaker was a final humiliation for the GOP's 'moderates‘

I love how that's worded as "a final humiliation" and not "the final humiliation." The writer of that headline fully realizes, for them, there's always room to be humiliated later.
posted by JHarris at 12:33 PM on October 30, 2023 [6 favorites]

Mike Johnson doesn’t have a bank account according to his House financial disclosure records.

That seems awfully fishy.
posted by interogative mood at 8:57 PM on November 1, 2023 [3 favorites]

No kidding: Over the course of seven years, Johnson has never reported a checking or savings account in his name, nor in the name of his wife or any of his children, disclosures show. In fact, he doesn’t appear to have money stashed in any investments, with his latest filing—covering 2022—showing no assets whatsoever.

"It’s strange to see Speaker Johnson disclose no assets,” [CREW's Jordan] Libowitz told The Daily Beast. “He made over $200,000 last year, and his wife took home salary from two employers as well, so why isn’t there a bank account or any form of savings listed?” Johnson has also carried debts over for several years, which Libowitz said would sharpen the question. “He owes hundreds of thousands of dollars between a mortgage, personal loan, and home equity line of credit, so where did that money go?” Libowitz said. “If he truly has no bank account and no assets, it raises questions about his personal financial wellbeing.”

The year before joining Congress, Johnson reported over $200,000 in combined income, a total he and his wife seem to clear annually. He topped that number again last year, reporting his $174,000 federal salary along with roughly $30,000 from his Liberty University online teaching gig—a steady side hustle Johnson first reported in 2019.

That fact, he said, could be seen as a vulnerability to exploit.

“One of the reasons we have these financial disclosures is to know whether politicians are having financial difficulties—which could make them ripe for influence buying,” Libowitz said.
posted by Iris Gambol at 9:27 PM on November 1, 2023 [4 favorites]

"Bossier Parish records show he is up to date on his taxes" does the Parish accept cryptocurrency
posted by Iris Gambol at 9:28 PM on November 1, 2023

Apparently one doesn't have disclose funds in accounts with fairly low thresholds (like $5k) or non directly controlled investment accounts like index funds. A conservative investor might only have those assets.
posted by Mitheral at 5:48 AM on November 2, 2023

Would those kinds of funds typically be liquid enough that you could draw on them for your day-to-day expenses and mortgage payments?
posted by 1970s Antihero at 6:27 AM on November 2, 2023

He probably just goes to one of those check-cashing places on payday.
posted by mittens at 6:28 AM on November 2, 2023

Personally I think he's eating all the money
posted by jason_steakums at 6:53 AM on November 2, 2023 [4 favorites]

Congressional salaries are paid by the Treasury, and I thought happened via direct deposit.
posted by Iris Gambol at 7:45 AM on November 2, 2023

Would those kinds of funds typically be liquid enough that you could draw on them for your day-to-day expenses and mortgage payments?

Preface: I think it likely Johnson just didn't declare a substantial savings/chequing/liquid investment account(s) well above the limit.

However it is possible to structure your finances in such a manner. With the caveat that Canadian investment vehicles work differently in the details my personal money flow with some minor tweaks is already wouldn't be reportable with the restrictions. I'd have to switch to index funds rather than managed funds (maybe?) for my Tax Free Savings Account and Registered Retirement Savings Plan account. Otherwise I rarely if ever have more than US$5000 in my chequing account. I get paid weekly, bill payments are coordinated with my pay, mortgage payments are bi weekly and any funds in excess of couple grand of float gets directed to the TFSA/RRSP/bonus payments on my mortgage.
posted by Mitheral at 9:23 AM on November 2, 2023 [2 favorites]

Come on, we all know he withdraws immediately and keeps under the mattress. The end times are coming and St Peter doesn't take debit.
posted by muddgirl at 9:33 AM on November 2, 2023

Congressional Salaries and Allowances: In Brief, Sept. 23, 2023 (Congressional Research Service)

The compensation for most Representatives is $174,000
divided by 12 (pay periods in a year)
$14,500 (before deductions)

Speaker of the House max. salary is $223,500
divided by 12 (pay periods in a year)
$18,625 (before deductions)

Permissible “outside earned income” for Representatives and Senators is limited to 15% of the annual rate of basic pay for level II of the Executive Schedule. According to the House Ethics Committee and the Senate Ethics Committee, the 2023 limit is $31,815.5 Certain types of outside earned income, however, are prohibited.

Speaker of the House Mike Johnson is an online professor at Liberty University. "According to LU, Johnson teaches two undergraduate online government courses. The university told ABC13 he has taught online since 2019." Since 2017, Kelly Johnson owns and operates Onward Christian Counseling Services. (In 2019, Onward Christian Education Services, a nonprofit corporation, was founded; Mrs. Johnson is the registered agent, and Rep. Johnson has conducted seminars.) Since March 2022, the couple co-host that podcast.

Yet neither spouse has a bank account balance that triggers the minimum reporting.
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:26 AM on November 2, 2023 [7 favorites]

"Only stupid people pay taxes" or something along those lines. The Republicans party sure picked a winner...
posted by Windopaene at 2:25 PM on November 2, 2023

If his salary is funneled through a church, could the church make it diappear?
posted by eustatic at 6:55 PM on November 6, 2023

I think the simple answer is that he has plenty of bank accounts he just lies and doesn't disclose them and no one really does anything about it.

How many other reps have done the same thing? I don't know how to check.
posted by VTX at 3:11 PM on November 7, 2023 [5 favorites]

Financial disclosures, searchable database, at the Clerk of the House of Representatives.

Well, one guy stands out like bloodied, broken thumb: Indicted freshman congressman and serial fabulist George Santos is the only member of Congress who has not yet filed his mandatory personal financial disclosure [...] The document’s absence is especially notable a month after the final deadline blew by, because many of Santos’s growing legal problems are centered on his self-mythologizing about his own finances. Last month, Nancy Marks, the ex-treasurer for U.S. Rep. George Santos, pleaded guilty to a fraud conspiracy charge and implicated the indicted New York Republican in a scheme to embellish his campaign finance reports with a fake loan and fake donors. The Committee on Ethics will issue a statement on Santos on Nov. 17.
posted by Iris Gambol at 7:24 PM on November 8, 2023 [1 favorite]

Rep. Blake Moore (R-Utah) just won the crowded race to succeed Speaker Mike Johnson (R-La.) as vice chair of the House Republican conference. (Normally seen as a low-profile leadership role, "the position is being seen by some as a potential springboard after Johnson's rapid rise.")

Moore, 43, was sworn in on Jan. 3, 2021; by July, he'd been fined for violating federal transparency law (2012's "Stop Trading on Congressional Knowledge Act" or STOCK Act, meant to deter insider trading): Moore neglected to disclose more than 70 separate stock transactions in a timely fashion. (At the time, Moore was member of the House Armed Services Committee, and invested in the defense contractor Raytheon.)
posted by Iris Gambol at 7:24 PM on November 8, 2023 [3 favorites]

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