Ge-brew-tlichkeit

November 28, 2023 2:22 AM

The beer garden’s family-friendliness helped to promote beer as a temperance beverage and a “healthy” alternative to spirits. Over the course of the 19th century, the temperance movement had come a long way from promoting moderation to calling for total abstinence of all alcoholic beverages. To German Americans, temperance was more than a mere political issue; it symbolized cultural conflict that threatened their lifestyle and value system. For the brewers, their ethnic interest was greatly reinforced by their economic interest. from A Lager Beer Revolution: The History of Beer and German American Immigration
posted by chavenet (13 comments total)

Interestingly, this issue was one of many that fractured the Republican coalition after the Civil War, weakening Northern unity over Reconstruction and the use of federal power to ensure enforcement of the 14th and 15th amendments in the South...
posted by touchstone033 at 7:03 AM on November 28, 2023 [1 favorite]

I bartended directly across the street from Scholz Garten in the 70's. I frequently took my dinner break underneath their trees...
posted by jim in austin at 7:05 AM on November 28, 2023 [2 favorites]

A few things of note:

• Pale Lager (of various pilsner inspired types) is still by far and away the most popular alcoholic beverage in the US even with the rise of "Craft" (which is roughly 25% of the market if you include brands owned by the big guys like ABI and Molson Coors amongst others)
• The amount of xenophobia about Germans during the WWI period did incalculable damage to the brewing industry and added fuel to the Prohibition movement
• In a lot of ways, the modern smallish craft brewer is the modern substitute for the biergarten with many catering to families with mixed results.
• A huge sticking point for a lot of brewers about being "kid friendly" is that
  • Most brewers don't have kids in mind with the design of their spaces and activities
  • A distressing number of parents look to the brewery staff to act as babysitters, keeping their kids safe while the adults drink beer and the kids run around causing chaos.
  • There's a lot of back and forth in the beer world about this push/pull between being kid friendly vs. the chaos of kids in a semi-adult space.(Parents wanting family time with adult privs and folks who don't want to deal with kids while having a beer)
  • If you ever want to see howling - look at the social media posts from breweries announcing that have decided to go adult only.

posted by drewbage1847 at 9:41 AM on November 28, 2023 [6 favorites]

I am not entirely sure where you get this information about "kid friendly" that you're inserting into this conversation here, but I'd like to know your sources so I can have an informed conversation about this topic.
posted by hippybear at 11:36 AM on November 28, 2023 [1 favorite]

I am not entirely sure where you get this information about "kid friendly" that you're inserting into this conversation here

It seems to me like a fairly direct continuation of themes from the linked article:

While US saloons were associated with manhood, crime, and corruption, German-style drinking venues became known for their sociability, family-friendliness, and Gemütlichkeit.

Moreover, the beer garden’s family-friendliness helped to promote beer as a temperance beverage and a “healthy” alternative to spirits.

To confirm, you’re looking for industry articles that confirm that adult space vs family friendly is a real marketing decision that venues make?
posted by zamboni at 12:01 PM on November 28, 2023 [1 favorite]

I've been beer world adjacent for a long, long while and a columnist for most of the major US beer publications at one point or another and written a few books and run an active podcast on the subject. All that's just to establish, I spend a lot of time with brewers and at breweries, enjoying the beer, the atmosphere and talking about the business.

The vast majority of breweries have put some small effort into making the spaces more amenable to families just because that's part of where the money comes from. Most of the time, it's just a stack of toys/games/puzzles to give little hands something to do. Some places do get more elaborate, but it's never really the level of "here's a ball pit, go hop around in it"

It's rare that I see a small neighborhood brewery that doesn't have a small fleet of kids bubbling around it and most of the owners are good with that because it keeps people coming in and a family friendly space to catch a pint in is a welcome adult relief for young families.. It's rare that you get patrons that grumble about the kids or the dogs unless they've become obnoxious enough that you wonder if they're hitting the taps themselves.

But if you want something official - The Brewer's Association (the trade group for US "Craft" brewers) has a subcomittee of brewery owners that focus on Taproom initiatives. Right there in their "Areas of Focus" is "Creating family-friendly spaces"
posted by drewbage1847 at 12:28 PM on November 28, 2023 [5 favorites]

To confirm, you’re looking for industry articles that confirm that adult space vs family friendly is a real marketing decision that venues make?

I'm more interested in the assertions that patrons of alcohol-serving establishments that allow families in are placing child care duties onto the staffs of those businesses. And I guess an interest in, like, what exactly is going on in these spaces that sound completely foreign to me.

Every bar or restaurant that I've been in that is open to families attending all seem to be separate family units functioning privately and independently. There is no playtime, there is no chaos, there are no kids running around, and there most certainly has never ever been an expectation that the adults can just get up and leave the children while they go play darts or pool or whatever.

This feels more like a specific personal example that is being universalized for journalistic appeal, although I see no journalism happening here at all. It's like a NYT complaint piece from the style section only posted as a comment here.
posted by hippybear at 12:51 PM on November 28, 2023 [1 favorite]

Doing a google search for "kids banned in taprooms" - from the first page of results

• Human Robot Bans Kids after 2pm
• Northern brewery bans children from taproom after ‘a number of incidents at recent events’ (This in the UK - "We feel we have exhausted other options: we've asked nicely in person, posted regular reminders on social media, put posters all around the brewery, and attached details to every table. Every time we open however, we have some parents allowing their children to wander around the brewery and the marina unsupervised.")
• Banishing kids from brewery sparks debate (Greater Good Imperial Brewing Co. in Worcester)
• In controversial move, Union Craft Brewing bans children after 6 p.m. ("Union Craft said it has struggled to manage large numbers of “unattended children running amok in our taproom” and destroying property.")
• Addressing the Question: Are Kids Welcome in Breweries? (written by my friend John Holl now of "All About Beer" and with quotes from around the industry.

And again, yes, the majority of kids in tap room spaces are well tended to, having quiet playtime with a toy or having conversations with the adults, but particularly as a tap gets larger it gets harder to maintain control and there's always the one or two lackadaisical parents (or dog owners) who ruin it for everyone else.
posted by drewbage1847 at 1:14 PM on November 28, 2023 [3 favorites]

Maybe the difference in family-friendliness is that a beer garden and a brewery are two very different things. No beer is brewed at the beer garden, though the beer is supplied by one brewer. So there’s not really any high-tech equipment for kids to get into, not more than any restaurant. Are these people also letting their kids run around in the kitchen of a restaurant?

It may be that a brewery which is more brewery than restaurant, shouldn’t be a space for kids. And also adult drinkers need to not claim all the spaces as child-free. A real beer garden seems like the perfect place to mix
posted by LizBoBiz at 1:45 PM on November 28, 2023 [2 favorites]

Anyway, I don't want to derail this into a discussion that is entirely outside the actual article linked in the FPP. The issue with children isn't about the brewery or their policies, it's about shitty parents.
posted by hippybear at 1:48 PM on November 28, 2023 [2 favorites]

Yes, yes it is.

But when the parents are behaving and the children and dogs are following suit - the modern brewery taproom is of the same spirit as a proper biergarten or pub. (though the biergarten was always much, much more about the whole family than the pub ever was)

There's something about sitting outside on a beautiful sunny day with music and people murmuring - with a beer (and a book if it's me usually), there's little place else I'd rather be.
posted by drewbage1847 at 1:58 PM on November 28, 2023 [3 favorites]

Biergartens are a little different over there. You might have only two beer choices, always balanced and not too cold, drawn from huge barrels. But you might have two dozen stalls serving various cheeses, sausages, and pickled things. The closest thing I've found over here is Notch Brewing in Salem, Mass.
posted by credulous at 7:29 PM on November 28, 2023 [1 favorite]

Credulous, that might be one model of a European beer garden but there is a lot of variety, from small gardens serving a few beers and limited food options to large concerns, almost like outdoor canteens with hatches for beer and food. I don't think I've ever seen the type with lots of different hatches for different snacks, which is not to say it doesn't exist but I don't think it's a dominant type.
posted by biffa at 1:47 PM on November 29, 2023 [1 favorite]