The Last Safe Zone in Gaza is Being Bombed
February 12, 2024 2:10 PM Subscribe
Heavy shelling in Rafah, the refugee camp where more than 1 million people are crammed More than 100 people, at least 42 of them children, have been killed since yesterday, with a ground offensive planned by Israeli forces.
While two of the hostages have been rescued, Amnesty International is calling the offensive "unlawful" and saying that none of the buildings hit are legitimate military targets.
In North America, you can contact your local elected representatives: municipal, state/province, federal. Let them know you want an end to any support to Israel's offensive. Let them know you oppose any support that is leading to the deaths of Gazan civilians, let them know this will decide your vote in any upcoming election/s.
Write letters to your local paper, let your faith communities know where you stand, join any larger efforts that make a visible point that we must have a ceasefire and we need aid to get to Gaza immediately.
For starters.
posted by elkevelvet at 2:38 PM on February 12 [19 favorites]
Write letters to your local paper, let your faith communities know where you stand, join any larger efforts that make a visible point that we must have a ceasefire and we need aid to get to Gaza immediately.
For starters.
posted by elkevelvet at 2:38 PM on February 12 [19 favorites]
Israel’s assault on Gaza is exposing the holes in everything liberal politicians claim to believe
posted by Artw at 2:41 PM on February 12 [25 favorites]
posted by Artw at 2:41 PM on February 12 [25 favorites]
I Never Want to See the ‘Dark Brandon’ Meme Again
posted by Artw at 2:41 PM on February 12 [23 favorites]
I'm irrationally angry about this.
If you're frothing at the mouth, stomping around in frustration, and finally breaking down and sobbing in despair, I'd say you're just about the right amount of angry about this.
posted by xedrik at 2:51 PM on February 12 [47 favorites]
If you're frothing at the mouth, stomping around in frustration, and finally breaking down and sobbing in despair, I'd say you're just about the right amount of angry about this.
posted by xedrik at 2:51 PM on February 12 [47 favorites]
Frowner's comment in the most recent Gaza thread stands: Back when this was just a starter nightmare, I was at a protest where one of the chants was "by the millions by the billions, we are all Palestinians" and it has recurred to me many times. It isn't a new thought, of course, but ordinary people ought to feel solidarity with oppressed groups, because we're all just one bad break away from being an inconvenient population. Letting ordinary working people get pulverized just because they're on the other side of the world is not just immoral, it's really stupid.
posted by elkevelvet at 3:22 PM on February 12 [36 favorites]
posted by elkevelvet at 3:22 PM on February 12 [36 favorites]
I want everyone who has made excuses for Israel's indiscriminate and genocidal violence to write down, right now, those fucking excuses and why you fucking knew better. I want you to live with the guilt forever - I don't want you to pretend that you were "always against" this, like people now pretend they were always against the war in Iraq.
Since there's obviously no god, it's the closest thing there is to justice for you.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 4:11 PM on February 12 [27 favorites]
Since there's obviously no god, it's the closest thing there is to justice for you.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 4:11 PM on February 12 [27 favorites]
God damn it, I have so much anger and so much I want to scream, yet I'm still afraid of saying something that will baselessly get me accused of antisemitism.
posted by Ickster at 4:37 PM on February 12 [6 favorites]
posted by Ickster at 4:37 PM on February 12 [6 favorites]
And as much as I hate to give any criticism that could possibly help TFG, come the fuck on, Biden. "President Biden Says ‘Credible Plan’ Needed to Protect Gazans in Rafah".
No. The destruction of every last thing in Gaza needs to STOP. "Credible Plans" are bullshit.
posted by Ickster at 4:40 PM on February 12 [7 favorites]
No. The destruction of every last thing in Gaza needs to STOP. "Credible Plans" are bullshit.
posted by Ickster at 4:40 PM on February 12 [7 favorites]
1 Chronicles 4:42-43
Some people still want to live in that moral world apparently.
At the risk of whattabouting this issue, one interesting contrast I've seen vs. the USA's violent takeover of California when we jumped Mexico in the late 1840s was the native Californios weren't all that attached to Mexico City allegedly, and as part of the takeover we pledged to respect existing Rancho landholdings, which was honored more or less as the 19th-century Anglo settlement of California proceeded.
I didn't throw my body in the gears to stop Bush's attack on Iraq in 2003, or the post-2001 reprisal attacks on Afghanistan for that matter.
Peace isn't on the menu right now, alas.
posted by torokunai at 4:42 PM on February 12 [1 favorite]
Some people still want to live in that moral world apparently.
At the risk of whattabouting this issue, one interesting contrast I've seen vs. the USA's violent takeover of California when we jumped Mexico in the late 1840s was the native Californios weren't all that attached to Mexico City allegedly, and as part of the takeover we pledged to respect existing Rancho landholdings, which was honored more or less as the 19th-century Anglo settlement of California proceeded.
I didn't throw my body in the gears to stop Bush's attack on Iraq in 2003, or the post-2001 reprisal attacks on Afghanistan for that matter.
Peace isn't on the menu right now, alas.
posted by torokunai at 4:42 PM on February 12 [1 favorite]
It seems clear that Netanyahu intends to plow ahead without apparent concern for the human cost or the cost to regional peace. He's already managed to single handedly wreck decades of Israeli PR and diplomacy with his headlong dash into hell. Having publicly committed himself to destroy Hamas, it seems like that's what he's going to do, damn the consequences.
Hamas for its part is still making demands as though it's in command of the situation. I have no idea what Haniyeh is thinking, but Netanyahu is a dead-eyed killer, and if Haniyeh's dare is "you'll have to kill us all" then its pretty clear that Netanyahu is comfortable doing so. I don't know what stops this short of an unconditional surrender, which Hamas (for its own reasons) will not do. Both sides will allow untold numbers of Gazans to perish in the fighting.
There has been more than enough blood spilled here. This will accomplish nothing, including allowing Netanyahu to keep his hide. When the Israeli public wakes up after a Rafah campaign to a world that has made their state a pariah, whatever else happens Netanyahu is finished. After that? I shudder to think.
posted by 1adam12 at 4:48 PM on February 12 [8 favorites]
Hamas for its part is still making demands as though it's in command of the situation. I have no idea what Haniyeh is thinking, but Netanyahu is a dead-eyed killer, and if Haniyeh's dare is "you'll have to kill us all" then its pretty clear that Netanyahu is comfortable doing so. I don't know what stops this short of an unconditional surrender, which Hamas (for its own reasons) will not do. Both sides will allow untold numbers of Gazans to perish in the fighting.
There has been more than enough blood spilled here. This will accomplish nothing, including allowing Netanyahu to keep his hide. When the Israeli public wakes up after a Rafah campaign to a world that has made their state a pariah, whatever else happens Netanyahu is finished. After that? I shudder to think.
posted by 1adam12 at 4:48 PM on February 12 [8 favorites]
This is so heartbreaking. I have no words.
posted by bluesky43 at 4:49 PM on February 12 [6 favorites]
posted by bluesky43 at 4:49 PM on February 12 [6 favorites]
I think it’s a good thing I didn’t see this until I already physically left the law school that called us all antisemitic for pointing out literally exactly what was going to happen.
posted by corb at 5:01 PM on February 12 [25 favorites]
posted by corb at 5:01 PM on February 12 [25 favorites]
This statement is not in effort to dismiss the plight of Palestine or any peoples, but at this point, what can anyone do? Contact representatives? Oh, they're contacted. Donating? Everyone I know is broke. March? Okay, I walked five miles but the bombs are still dropping. The bombs are still dropping in Gaza. In Ukraine. In Aleppo. In Khartoum. In Papua. In Myanmar. In Kashmir. In Xinjiang. Day after day, mostly footage from Gaza (though a fair chunk saying it's from Gaza is actually from Syria). Day after day, social media feeds flooded with the dead, broken, and bereaving.
Here we are, doing the right thing, watching footage or hearing tales of dead kids, mutilated doctors, and innocent civilians, being pleaded at (internally and externally) to do something without any elucidation of what that something is beyond token participation in an oligarchic political system and empty trots down main street.
The awareness is here. It's been here since the start. But there's nothing actionable anyone can do with this awareness. Awareness isn't enough. Voting isn't enough. Marching isn't enough. Anything beyond that lands you in jail, and the message is crystal clear that no one is looking for martyrs. The Gaza War is starting to feel like a torrent of blood that's being harvested for clicks and adsales, for a brand awareness of caring.
I've hit the limit. I've quarantined my socials to be entirely art and music. I can't do the right thing anymore. Nothing is being changed by my, or seemingly anyone's, awareness at this point. Godspeed to those still trying to figure out what to post in their insta stories or web-blogs that can bring an end to this madness. I can't handle that puzzle.
posted by Philipschall at 5:02 PM on February 12 [51 favorites]
Here we are, doing the right thing, watching footage or hearing tales of dead kids, mutilated doctors, and innocent civilians, being pleaded at (internally and externally) to do something without any elucidation of what that something is beyond token participation in an oligarchic political system and empty trots down main street.
The awareness is here. It's been here since the start. But there's nothing actionable anyone can do with this awareness. Awareness isn't enough. Voting isn't enough. Marching isn't enough. Anything beyond that lands you in jail, and the message is crystal clear that no one is looking for martyrs. The Gaza War is starting to feel like a torrent of blood that's being harvested for clicks and adsales, for a brand awareness of caring.
I've hit the limit. I've quarantined my socials to be entirely art and music. I can't do the right thing anymore. Nothing is being changed by my, or seemingly anyone's, awareness at this point. Godspeed to those still trying to figure out what to post in their insta stories or web-blogs that can bring an end to this madness. I can't handle that puzzle.
posted by Philipschall at 5:02 PM on February 12 [51 favorites]
there is no saving the empire. it's us or them; the people or capital. there is no US presidential candidate who does not support genocide with his full chest. the only sane agenda is uncompromising betrayal of the society that birthed these horrors. if israeli teenagers can go to prison for burning their draft documents and palestinians can be shot for raising a flag, we have no choice but to take risks that violate the strictures of our own regimes.
posted by jy4m at 5:03 PM on February 12 [12 favorites]
posted by jy4m at 5:03 PM on February 12 [12 favorites]
Gonna repeat this from the previous thread because it shows a Western politician saying exactly what needs to be said (first link is to Twitter so use nitter.net if that works better for you):
Excellent 2-minute clip of EU head foreign policy minister Borrell from Spain calling out Biden for not cutting off arms and money to Netanyahu. Borrell is clearly frustrated and borders on sarcastic:
"If you believe too many people are being killed, maybe you should provide less arms. You know, to prevent so many people being killled. That's not logical?"
He goes on, noting that Netanyahu doesn't listen to anyone who "goes to Tel Aviv begging" him to stop murdering so many civilians. You can tell he means it. He then mentions that a Dutch court just ordered the Netherlands to stop shipment of spare parts for F-35 fighters as an example of what should be done. It's worth giving Elon a click if you can't find his speech elsewhere, but here's a 30-second excerpt at YouTube.
posted by mediareport at 5:13 PM on February 12 [24 favorites]
Excellent 2-minute clip of EU head foreign policy minister Borrell from Spain calling out Biden for not cutting off arms and money to Netanyahu. Borrell is clearly frustrated and borders on sarcastic:
"If you believe too many people are being killed, maybe you should provide less arms. You know, to prevent so many people being killled. That's not logical?"
He goes on, noting that Netanyahu doesn't listen to anyone who "goes to Tel Aviv begging" him to stop murdering so many civilians. You can tell he means it. He then mentions that a Dutch court just ordered the Netherlands to stop shipment of spare parts for F-35 fighters as an example of what should be done. It's worth giving Elon a click if you can't find his speech elsewhere, but here's a 30-second excerpt at YouTube.
posted by mediareport at 5:13 PM on February 12 [24 favorites]
Fuck Joe Biden and fuck anyone in congress who votes for the $14 billion aid package.
posted by windbox at 5:42 PM on February 12 [18 favorites]
posted by windbox at 5:42 PM on February 12 [18 favorites]
Fuck all those people but also fuck, like, the majority of people in the US? Biden’s policy is incredibly popular. Decades of propaganda in the west have effectively granted Netanyahu immunity
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 6:21 PM on February 12 [8 favorites]
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 6:21 PM on February 12 [8 favorites]
The awareness is here. It's been here since the start. But there's nothing actionable anyone can do with this awareness.
I've posted links yesterday in the ongoing thread (and I can move updates here) specifically on developments where other third parties have been doing, legally. It's not sexy as marching, definitely slower too, and basically presumes the society as we stands still means something, but seriously, from this non-American view, you guys are giving up now? Now? The only time anything is too late is when you're dead. Sorry the world is unresolvable in a non-Hollywood way.
I won't c&p the whole comment because it's long but the ICJ ruling has been steadily unwinding its impact even as America plugs up its ears, gum up the works at the UNSC as well as apparently provide so little media coverage it gives the impression nothing is moving.
if israeli teenagers can go to prison for burning their draft documents and palestinians can be shot for raising a flag, we have no choice but to take risks that violate the strictures of our own regimes.
Also yes.
Anyway, this is only because I'm raised Muslim, so I'm raising the point this way, but a jihad at its core just means struggle (not a holy war). Internal jihad, to work on yourself, is the most important one. Further, in fighting injustice, I'm paraphrasing badly, but the way it was related to me, if you can't raise your arms, you raise your voice, and if you can't raise it in public you raise it in private. Palestinians have been killed and murdered and dehumanised and treated less than dirt because whenever some joker talked about "those people" we'll just politely nod and move on.
posted by cendawanita at 6:31 PM on February 12 [49 favorites]
I've posted links yesterday in the ongoing thread (and I can move updates here) specifically on developments where other third parties have been doing, legally. It's not sexy as marching, definitely slower too, and basically presumes the society as we stands still means something, but seriously, from this non-American view, you guys are giving up now? Now? The only time anything is too late is when you're dead. Sorry the world is unresolvable in a non-Hollywood way.
I won't c&p the whole comment because it's long but the ICJ ruling has been steadily unwinding its impact even as America plugs up its ears, gum up the works at the UNSC as well as apparently provide so little media coverage it gives the impression nothing is moving.
if israeli teenagers can go to prison for burning their draft documents and palestinians can be shot for raising a flag, we have no choice but to take risks that violate the strictures of our own regimes.
Also yes.
Anyway, this is only because I'm raised Muslim, so I'm raising the point this way, but a jihad at its core just means struggle (not a holy war). Internal jihad, to work on yourself, is the most important one. Further, in fighting injustice, I'm paraphrasing badly, but the way it was related to me, if you can't raise your arms, you raise your voice, and if you can't raise it in public you raise it in private. Palestinians have been killed and murdered and dehumanised and treated less than dirt because whenever some joker talked about "those people" we'll just politely nod and move on.
posted by cendawanita at 6:31 PM on February 12 [49 favorites]
And I'm not saying, from this day forth, argue with every single clown who thinks genocide is perfectly all right. Especially for an American, even the most hard up and bereft, all I'm saying is, deny them even the pleasure of knowing you're just moving on with your day, that this is too complicated and you're just too heartsick to tell them no to their face and then move on with your day.
posted by cendawanita at 6:35 PM on February 12 [7 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 6:35 PM on February 12 [7 favorites]
Half of US adults, 67% Democrats, 52% Independents believe "Israel has gone too far"
posted by windbox at 6:37 PM on February 12 [14 favorites]
posted by windbox at 6:37 PM on February 12 [14 favorites]
"If you believe too many people are being killed, maybe you should provide less arms. You know, to prevent so many people being killled. That's not logical?"
Biden told Israel to resume supply of water and fuel into Gaza (Foreign Policy), something Israel had no intention of doing on their own, and they did it. Israel declared it was going to launch a devastating ground assault almost immediately: but they were delayed over a month by Biden and top officials making unprecedented personal visits to Israel (Bloomberg), by which time their fury had cooled and their plan had clearly been changed to fit Biden's wishes. Biden parked two carrier groups off the coast while demanding that Israel not even think about opening a second front wth Hezbollah in Lebanon.
How does Borell think Biden achieved all that? Leverage, and you gain leverage by supplying them something they need. Biden has the carrier groups and smart munitions, so he can dictate to a degree how Israel acts - delay the ground attack until cooler heads prevailed, reduce its scope, resume supply of water. Cut off relations and you lose all leverage.
You don't need F-35 parts to kill the enemy. In the last decade alone, 400,000 dead in Sudan, up to 600,000 dead in Ethiopia, 350,000 dead in Nigeria, 370,000 dead in Yemen, not to mention other conflicts. None of them needed F-35 parts.
Effective politicians understand leverage and influence, and how to use it to achieve their goals. For all we know Biden told Netanyahu in private he was going to cut Israel off entirely if he didn't resume supply of water. Using leverage like this is always done in private, never in public.
Of course, some politicians just want to produce 30 second clickbait, pandering to a section of their electorate, maybe getting some votes, but don't actually care about influencing the situation on the ground.
posted by xdvesper at 6:39 PM on February 12 [20 favorites]
Biden told Israel to resume supply of water and fuel into Gaza (Foreign Policy), something Israel had no intention of doing on their own, and they did it. Israel declared it was going to launch a devastating ground assault almost immediately: but they were delayed over a month by Biden and top officials making unprecedented personal visits to Israel (Bloomberg), by which time their fury had cooled and their plan had clearly been changed to fit Biden's wishes. Biden parked two carrier groups off the coast while demanding that Israel not even think about opening a second front wth Hezbollah in Lebanon.
How does Borell think Biden achieved all that? Leverage, and you gain leverage by supplying them something they need. Biden has the carrier groups and smart munitions, so he can dictate to a degree how Israel acts - delay the ground attack until cooler heads prevailed, reduce its scope, resume supply of water. Cut off relations and you lose all leverage.
You don't need F-35 parts to kill the enemy. In the last decade alone, 400,000 dead in Sudan, up to 600,000 dead in Ethiopia, 350,000 dead in Nigeria, 370,000 dead in Yemen, not to mention other conflicts. None of them needed F-35 parts.
Effective politicians understand leverage and influence, and how to use it to achieve their goals. For all we know Biden told Netanyahu in private he was going to cut Israel off entirely if he didn't resume supply of water. Using leverage like this is always done in private, never in public.
Of course, some politicians just want to produce 30 second clickbait, pandering to a section of their electorate, maybe getting some votes, but don't actually care about influencing the situation on the ground.
posted by xdvesper at 6:39 PM on February 12 [20 favorites]
The American death industry sending its weapons to Israel has addresses, supply chains. To quote Os Cangacieros,
posted by Richard Saunders at 6:45 PM on February 12 [5 favorites]
September 17, 1990Beats leaving thoughts and prayers on your rep's voicemail.
Addressee: ORSA CEMENT
02000 Laon
Subject: Our journey through your premises in the middle of April 1990
You in your beautiful central office of a cement company — You content.
You building Laon prison — We pissed off.
We destroying computerized control panel — You pissed off.
We preferring you pissed off — We content.
posted by Richard Saunders at 6:45 PM on February 12 [5 favorites]
Both sides will allow untold numbers of Gazans to perish in the fighting.
One side is allowing it, the other is the one doing the killing of Gazans.
posted by Dysk at 6:48 PM on February 12 [4 favorites]
One side is allowing it, the other is the one doing the killing of Gazans.
posted by Dysk at 6:48 PM on February 12 [4 favorites]
I don't think arguing that the situation in Gaza is proceeding exactly as Biden wishes is anything but a further indictment of Biden.
posted by Cpt. The Mango at 6:51 PM on February 12 [24 favorites]
posted by Cpt. The Mango at 6:51 PM on February 12 [24 favorites]
For all we know Biden told Netanyahu in private he was going to cut Israel off entirely if he didn't resume supply of water. Using leverage like this is always done in private, never in public.
Wow that's awesome of the Biden administration to do West Wing episode fanfic 12-dimensional chess to provide people in Gaza water while they get ethnically cleansed. With the aid of billions of dollars they are rubber stamping for Israel. Sorry but once again and even more full-throated fuck Joe Biden and everyone in congress aiding this.
posted by windbox at 6:51 PM on February 12 [38 favorites]
Wow that's awesome of the Biden administration to do West Wing episode fanfic 12-dimensional chess to provide people in Gaza water while they get ethnically cleansed. With the aid of billions of dollars they are rubber stamping for Israel. Sorry but once again and even more full-throated fuck Joe Biden and everyone in congress aiding this.
posted by windbox at 6:51 PM on February 12 [38 favorites]
I'm not sure that any of this is going as Biden wishes? It certainly seems like Bibi is doing whatever the fuck he wants, however.
posted by hippybear at 6:52 PM on February 12 [4 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 6:52 PM on February 12 [4 favorites]
Both sides will allow untold numbers of Gazans to perish in the fighting.
Hamas isn't "allowing" anything here; Hamas doesn't have the power to stop Israel from being genocidaires.
posted by adrienneleigh at 6:56 PM on February 12 [14 favorites]
Hamas isn't "allowing" anything here; Hamas doesn't have the power to stop Israel from being genocidaires.
posted by adrienneleigh at 6:56 PM on February 12 [14 favorites]
I've been using "Wouldn't piss on them if they were burning" a lot recently with regards to the Israeli government.
posted by Slackermagee at 7:04 PM on February 12 [3 favorites]
posted by Slackermagee at 7:04 PM on February 12 [3 favorites]
Hamas isn't "allowing" anything here; Hamas doesn't have the power to stop Israel from being genocidaires.
Hamas had the option to not fuck around, but they fucked around and then they found out. Good riddance to them, but the shit part is that, of course, as intended and like always, nearly all the consequences have been borne by the civilian population.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:17 PM on February 12 [10 favorites]
Hamas had the option to not fuck around, but they fucked around and then they found out. Good riddance to them, but the shit part is that, of course, as intended and like always, nearly all the consequences have been borne by the civilian population.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:17 PM on February 12 [10 favorites]
Not in this thread yet as of this date and time is that Biden is pushing hard for a six week pause in the war and hoping that will lead to more [Times Of Israel].
posted by hippybear at 7:24 PM on February 12 [3 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 7:24 PM on February 12 [3 favorites]
As intended BY WHO????????
posted by CPAnarchist at 7:43 PM on February 12 [2 favorites]
posted by CPAnarchist at 7:43 PM on February 12 [2 favorites]
they fucked around and then they found out.
This is a really common, popular response when the cops murder someone for not breathing right. The exact words. It's interesting, I wonder what made it so popular with that crowd.
posted by Audreynachrome at 7:53 PM on February 12 [40 favorites]
This is a really common, popular response when the cops murder someone for not breathing right. The exact words. It's interesting, I wonder what made it so popular with that crowd.
posted by Audreynachrome at 7:53 PM on February 12 [40 favorites]
This is a small but concrete and practical thing you can do: buy virtual SIM cards for people in Gaza. This organization distributes them, and it's the only way a lot of people can use their phones since the IDF wiped out most of the infrastructure. The website at the link will walk you through how to do it.
posted by Nibbly Fang at 7:54 PM on February 12 [17 favorites]
posted by Nibbly Fang at 7:54 PM on February 12 [17 favorites]
Hamas had the option to not fuck around, but they fucked around and then they found out.
On that note:
30 Jan: Hamas regroups in northern Gaza to prepare new offensive - that's the section Israel declared mission accomplished on btw
9 Feb: (Al-Monitor analysis) Hamas reemerges in northern Gaza weeks after Israel said it's dismantled
But also on that note, lest we forget the 2018 Great March of Return: UNRWA report. Who fucked around and found out then? And just before October 7, it was already the deadliest year to date for Palestinians (eg this October 6 report specifically on the kids). Who fucked around then?
And what did journalists do? What were they fucking around about? (The Conversation, 19 January) Israel now ranks among the world’s leading jailers of journalists. We don’t know why they’re behind bars -
Each year, the committee releases a snapshot of the number of journalists behind bars as of December 1 2023 was the second highest on record with 320 in detention around the world.
In a small way, that is encouraging news. The figure is down from a high of 363 the previous year.
In the meantime: (NPR) Friendly fire and accidents have killed a lot of Israeli soldiers in Gaza. Here's why
(Me after reading up about the Oct 7 intelligence and mobilization failure: hmm, surprise me)
It's a good thing genocide doesn't include the criteria of effectiveness, I guess.
And filed under handwringing on what can you do, idk be like these drug dealers: (MEE) Moroccan hashish suppliers 'boycott Israeli dealers' over Gaza war - Israeli smugglers losing 'tens of millions of shekels' after suppliers in Morocco's Rif mountains withdraw sales in solidarity with Palestinians, says report
(FT) Customer boycotts leave bitter taste for Starbucks and McDonald’s -
Activist calls to shun Starbucks’ products spread after the company sued its workers’ union over a social media post last October. The chain alleged that Workers United violated its trademark by using the company name and logo when expressing solidarity with Palestinians in a post on X, formerly known as Twitter. Workers United responded with its own court filing, alleging Starbucks defamed it by implying that the union supports terrorism and violence.
(...McDonald’s has experienced this first hand, with the burger chain reporting that same-store sales in its international licensed division — which covers more than 80 markets where McDonald’s has licensed its franchising rights — sharply missed analyst expectations in the three months to the end of December. The company blamed the slowdown primarily on the drop in demand at its restaurants in the Middle East as well as those in predominantly Muslim countries such as Indonesia and Malaysia.
The pro-Palestinian Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions movement (BDS) backed the boycott of the burger giant last year, after the McDonald’s Israel franchise said on its social media account it had given thousands of free meals to Israel Defense Forces personnel.)
posted by cendawanita at 7:58 PM on February 12 [33 favorites]
On that note:
30 Jan: Hamas regroups in northern Gaza to prepare new offensive - that's the section Israel declared mission accomplished on btw
9 Feb: (Al-Monitor analysis) Hamas reemerges in northern Gaza weeks after Israel said it's dismantled
But also on that note, lest we forget the 2018 Great March of Return: UNRWA report. Who fucked around and found out then? And just before October 7, it was already the deadliest year to date for Palestinians (eg this October 6 report specifically on the kids). Who fucked around then?
And what did journalists do? What were they fucking around about? (The Conversation, 19 January) Israel now ranks among the world’s leading jailers of journalists. We don’t know why they’re behind bars -
Each year, the committee releases a snapshot of the number of journalists behind bars as of December 1 2023 was the second highest on record with 320 in detention around the world.
In a small way, that is encouraging news. The figure is down from a high of 363 the previous year.
In the meantime: (NPR) Friendly fire and accidents have killed a lot of Israeli soldiers in Gaza. Here's why
(Me after reading up about the Oct 7 intelligence and mobilization failure: hmm, surprise me)
It's a good thing genocide doesn't include the criteria of effectiveness, I guess.
And filed under handwringing on what can you do, idk be like these drug dealers: (MEE) Moroccan hashish suppliers 'boycott Israeli dealers' over Gaza war - Israeli smugglers losing 'tens of millions of shekels' after suppliers in Morocco's Rif mountains withdraw sales in solidarity with Palestinians, says report
(FT) Customer boycotts leave bitter taste for Starbucks and McDonald’s -
Activist calls to shun Starbucks’ products spread after the company sued its workers’ union over a social media post last October. The chain alleged that Workers United violated its trademark by using the company name and logo when expressing solidarity with Palestinians in a post on X, formerly known as Twitter. Workers United responded with its own court filing, alleging Starbucks defamed it by implying that the union supports terrorism and violence.
(...McDonald’s has experienced this first hand, with the burger chain reporting that same-store sales in its international licensed division — which covers more than 80 markets where McDonald’s has licensed its franchising rights — sharply missed analyst expectations in the three months to the end of December. The company blamed the slowdown primarily on the drop in demand at its restaurants in the Middle East as well as those in predominantly Muslim countries such as Indonesia and Malaysia.
The pro-Palestinian Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions movement (BDS) backed the boycott of the burger giant last year, after the McDonald’s Israel franchise said on its social media account it had given thousands of free meals to Israel Defense Forces personnel.)
posted by cendawanita at 7:58 PM on February 12 [33 favorites]
Hamas doesn't have the power to stop Israel from being genocidaires.
Hamas holds 100+ Israelis that were abducted by Hamas via an invasion of Israel. I think it is strongly disingenuous to suggest that Hamas has no power here whatsoever, and that releasing those Israelis would not influence the Israeli government at all.
It is not necessary to pretend Hamas is absolutely blameless and powerless in order to condemn Israel.
posted by saeculorum at 8:12 PM on February 12 [15 favorites]
Hamas holds 100+ Israelis that were abducted by Hamas via an invasion of Israel. I think it is strongly disingenuous to suggest that Hamas has no power here whatsoever, and that releasing those Israelis would not influence the Israeli government at all.
It is not necessary to pretend Hamas is absolutely blameless and powerless in order to condemn Israel.
posted by saeculorum at 8:12 PM on February 12 [15 favorites]
But they did put that on the table. That was in the last round of negotiations that Bibi said no to:
Israel's Prime Minister on Wednesday rejected a Hamas-proposed ceasefire and hostage-release agreement, calling them “delusional.”
His hardline stance will likely complicate efforts to strike a deal between the two sides, which could ultimately ease a devastating conflict in Gaza and bring Israeli hostages home.
Netanyahu vowed to press ahead with Israel's war against Hamas, now in its fifth month, until achieving “absolute victory”.
Hamas' plan called for a four-and-a-half-month pause in fighting, during which all hostages would be released and Israel would withdraw its troops from Gaza.
However, it would have effectively left the Palestinian militant group in power, a scenario Israel opposes.
There's a reason why Israeli protestors have taken to blocking highways with burning barricades demanding their return.
posted by cendawanita at 8:17 PM on February 12 [18 favorites]
Israel's Prime Minister on Wednesday rejected a Hamas-proposed ceasefire and hostage-release agreement, calling them “delusional.”
His hardline stance will likely complicate efforts to strike a deal between the two sides, which could ultimately ease a devastating conflict in Gaza and bring Israeli hostages home.
Netanyahu vowed to press ahead with Israel's war against Hamas, now in its fifth month, until achieving “absolute victory”.
Hamas' plan called for a four-and-a-half-month pause in fighting, during which all hostages would be released and Israel would withdraw its troops from Gaza.
However, it would have effectively left the Palestinian militant group in power, a scenario Israel opposes.
There's a reason why Israeli protestors have taken to blocking highways with burning barricades demanding their return.
posted by cendawanita at 8:17 PM on February 12 [18 favorites]
The Hamas counterproposal was not "all hostages would be released and Israel would withdraw its troops from Gaza" - it was release Israeli women/children initially, Israeli men in 45 days, release Israeli-held Palestinian prisoners initially, then release upwards of 1500 Israeli-held Palestinian prisoners in 45 days.
Hamas has, to the best of my knowledge, never offered to unconditionally release their captured hostages.
posted by saeculorum at 8:24 PM on February 12 [1 favorite]
Hamas has, to the best of my knowledge, never offered to unconditionally release their captured hostages.
posted by saeculorum at 8:24 PM on February 12 [1 favorite]
If it has to be unconditional, then how is stopping the genocide in Hamas' hands?
For the power to end the killing to be in their hands, they need to be able to demand the condition of ceasefire.
posted by Audreynachrome at 8:35 PM on February 12 [21 favorites]
For the power to end the killing to be in their hands, they need to be able to demand the condition of ceasefire.
posted by Audreynachrome at 8:35 PM on February 12 [21 favorites]
Yes, it goes under how they defined their civilian vs army captures, much in the same way Israeli sources define Hamas combatants which are men of a certain age.
posted by cendawanita at 8:36 PM on February 12 [6 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 8:36 PM on February 12 [6 favorites]
We're not suggesting, surely, that if all the hostages woke up tomorrow in Tel Aviv, the Israelis would just stop of their own accord?
posted by Audreynachrome at 8:36 PM on February 12 [21 favorites]
posted by Audreynachrome at 8:36 PM on February 12 [21 favorites]
For my part also, I'm sorry - when I replied, "unconditional" was not in the statement that I responded to. And: "Israeli women/children initially, Israeli men in 45 days" - doesn't count as "all"? Because of the timing?
posted by cendawanita at 8:41 PM on February 12 [3 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 8:41 PM on February 12 [3 favorites]
The one thing Hamas did achieve?: Israel's savage response has educated and, in many cases, radicalized a significant segment of the U.S. public on Palestinian history/rights and Israeli genocide/apartheid. There may be very little else of any good that comes out of this, but there's that.
posted by the sobsister at 8:53 PM on February 12 [7 favorites]
posted by the sobsister at 8:53 PM on February 12 [7 favorites]
Anyone who is even vaguely pro-Israel needs to stop pretending that the Israeli government cares about the hostages whatsoever.
And anyone who gleefully invokes "fuck around and find out" realizes that fucking around goes both ways right? Right?
posted by Cpt. The Mango at 9:00 PM on February 12 [28 favorites]
And anyone who gleefully invokes "fuck around and find out" realizes that fucking around goes both ways right? Right?
posted by Cpt. The Mango at 9:00 PM on February 12 [28 favorites]
And: "Israeli women/children initially, Israeli men in 45 days" - doesn't count as "all"? Because of the timing?
The point I communicated poorly with the use of the term "unconditional" is that Hamas is still negotiating as if they should get something in return for releasing captured hostages. Offering the return of hostages in exchange for radically more prisoners from Israel, at the same time implicitly recognizing the legitimacy of the Hamas government, is Hamas still attempting to get rewarded for invading Israel. I will not attempt to justify any of Israel's actions - but that's not Hamas being powerless.
I strongly suspect that if Hamas only offered "all hostages would be released and Israel would withdraw its troops from Gaza" - with no other conditions from Israel, Israel would leave Gaza. If Hamas offered that and Israel declined, I would then think it's somewhat valid to say Hamas is powerless. That offer has never been made.
posted by saeculorum at 9:01 PM on February 12 [1 favorite]
The point I communicated poorly with the use of the term "unconditional" is that Hamas is still negotiating as if they should get something in return for releasing captured hostages. Offering the return of hostages in exchange for radically more prisoners from Israel, at the same time implicitly recognizing the legitimacy of the Hamas government, is Hamas still attempting to get rewarded for invading Israel. I will not attempt to justify any of Israel's actions - but that's not Hamas being powerless.
I strongly suspect that if Hamas only offered "all hostages would be released and Israel would withdraw its troops from Gaza" - with no other conditions from Israel, Israel would leave Gaza. If Hamas offered that and Israel declined, I would then think it's somewhat valid to say Hamas is powerless. That offer has never been made.
posted by saeculorum at 9:01 PM on February 12 [1 favorite]
I strongly suspect that if Hamas only offered "all hostages would be released and Israel would withdraw its troops from Gaza" - with no other conditions from Israel, Israel would leave Gaza.
Netanyahu has repeatedly and consistently said that nothing short of the total destruction of Hamas is acceptable. It would be a hell of a turnaround if he decided that actually, releasing the hostages would be fine instead.
posted by Dysk at 9:12 PM on February 12 [30 favorites]
Netanyahu has repeatedly and consistently said that nothing short of the total destruction of Hamas is acceptable. It would be a hell of a turnaround if he decided that actually, releasing the hostages would be fine instead.
posted by Dysk at 9:12 PM on February 12 [30 favorites]
I think Israel has been fucking around for many decades and found out that they can not, in fact, automate their occupation on Iron Dome cruise control with cameras and robot turrets and drones and systemized checkpoint protocols and blockades and a cottage tech industry of AI face recognition software behind walls and fences that shield them while they sip lattes in Tel Aviv telling themselves they are urban cosmopolitan liberal raver hippies who live in the only democracy in the middle east and are the safest state for the jewish people.
They have fucked around and found out that it will require years more - likely decades more - of extremely violent ongoing conflicts and escalations and tragic atrocities like what they saw on 10/7, and increasingly expensive and resource intensive human boots on the ground doing "security measures" and "operations" and incursions and making themselves more and more of a global pariah and seeing less and less actual young jewish families who, unless they are fucking psychos, would ever willingly make Aliyah and voluntarily raise their children in a place where they now much more likely will one day grow up and get conscripted into actual violent warfare and not doofy fake IDF deskjobs. All under the guise of "eradicating hamas" which is not an actual achievable thing and I'm shocked people on this website think that it is.
posted by windbox at 9:13 PM on February 12 [33 favorites]
They have fucked around and found out that it will require years more - likely decades more - of extremely violent ongoing conflicts and escalations and tragic atrocities like what they saw on 10/7, and increasingly expensive and resource intensive human boots on the ground doing "security measures" and "operations" and incursions and making themselves more and more of a global pariah and seeing less and less actual young jewish families who, unless they are fucking psychos, would ever willingly make Aliyah and voluntarily raise their children in a place where they now much more likely will one day grow up and get conscripted into actual violent warfare and not doofy fake IDF deskjobs. All under the guise of "eradicating hamas" which is not an actual achievable thing and I'm shocked people on this website think that it is.
posted by windbox at 9:13 PM on February 12 [33 favorites]
I will not attempt to justify any of Israel's actions
Oh, let's see how long this lasts...
I strongly suspect that if Hamas only offered "all hostages would be released and Israel would withdraw its troops from Gaza" - with no other conditions from Israel, Israel would leave Gaza.
...not long! Anyways, the leaders of the Israeli government have repeatedly stated that their goal is very specifically not to leave Gaza alone, that any "deal" involving an end to hostilities will involve granting Israel direct authority over it. Furthermore, they have made it extremely explicit that the goal of granting this authority is to complete the genocide and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.
But I suspect you already knew that.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 9:15 PM on February 12 [16 favorites]
Oh, let's see how long this lasts...
I strongly suspect that if Hamas only offered "all hostages would be released and Israel would withdraw its troops from Gaza" - with no other conditions from Israel, Israel would leave Gaza.
...not long! Anyways, the leaders of the Israeli government have repeatedly stated that their goal is very specifically not to leave Gaza alone, that any "deal" involving an end to hostilities will involve granting Israel direct authority over it. Furthermore, they have made it extremely explicit that the goal of granting this authority is to complete the genocide and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.
But I suspect you already knew that.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 9:15 PM on February 12 [16 favorites]
And anyone who gleefully invokes "fuck around and find out" realizes that fucking around goes both ways right? Right?
Yeah, I mean, obviously not, because not all lives are being valued equally here.
I've been thinking about it, and I think the thing is, "fuck around and find out" in this usage isn't deployed to say "there will be consequences for your actions", it's deployed to say "the consequences can be extreme, they do not need to be proportional, or reasonable, submit wholly to our authority or die".
posted by Audreynachrome at 9:20 PM on February 12 [12 favorites]
Yeah, I mean, obviously not, because not all lives are being valued equally here.
I've been thinking about it, and I think the thing is, "fuck around and find out" in this usage isn't deployed to say "there will be consequences for your actions", it's deployed to say "the consequences can be extreme, they do not need to be proportional, or reasonable, submit wholly to our authority or die".
posted by Audreynachrome at 9:20 PM on February 12 [12 favorites]
Offering the return of hostages in exchange for radically more prisoners from Israel
This has been in response (decades at this point) of Israeli detaining Palestinians (and in many instances with no evidence and IN THOSE INSTANCES INCLUDE THOSE OUTSIDE OF GAZA). The successful failure of Oct 7 was the fact that the deranged settler politics and increased religiosity of Israel as a state meant Shabbat was properly observed even at the border areas which is sparsely staffed since most resources went to the settlements - the ones no one outside Israel would even give the fig leaf is legal - which caused the incredible carnage, which as Israelis are finding out (less so us outsiders) have notably also been contributed by their panicking security forces. Kidnapping then sieging (remember 2021 iirc?) then negotiations then released has been the incredibly fatalistic duet that Israelis have caused Palestinians to engage in.
at the same time implicitly recognizing the legitimacy of the Hamas government, is Hamas still attempting to get rewarded for invading Israel.
For reasons above I'm not going with their attempt as described as an invasion, but otherwise the question must be asked, why would Israel have a say in the sovereign conduct of their neighbour (to use particularly favourite term of art, and not in fact "colony")?
I absolutely agree Hamas is not powerless. Hamas also isn't quite a state actor but it's also to date the governing entity of Gaza, not all of Palestine - it's become both a resistance movement but also proto-state actor, in large part due to the length of this occupation. But even in that, note that the internationally recognised "State of Palestine" is under the PA inheriting the status given to the PLO, who governs the West Bank, and shall we go over what's been going on there?
(Reuters yesterday): Netanyahu says 'enough' remaining Israeli hostages alive to warrant Gaza war
(Haaretz the day before; analysis by Amos Harel ) Netanyahu Prefers Hollow Slogans About 'Total Victory' in Gaza Over the Lives of Israeli Hostages - According to all the signals he is conveying, the prime minister does not intend to risk the continued survival of his coalition with a new deal that will involve concessions that would impact his relations with the ultra-right wing of his coalition. It appears that for him, the hostages can wait.
Netanyahu prefers instead to utter hollow slogans about a decisive victory in the Gaza Strip, which he claims is attainable.
As part of an attempt to intimidate Hamas, Netanyahu announced that he had instructed the IDF to prepare for capturing Rafah and to get ready for the evacuation of the civilian population from the area; this evacuation of 1.3 million people living under extremely overcrowded conditions is part of an American demand in case Israel does go ahead with this plan.
(...) Netanyahu's intentions are also obvious in the manner in which his mouthpieces have been behaving. TV Channel 13 has reported that his office has pressured Likud cabinet members to come out publicly against the proposed hostage deal. In studios at his "house" Channel 14 – a privately owned commercial Israeli broadcaster – commentators are preparing public opinion for the need to relinquish the idea of bringing hostages home, for the sake of a final victory.
Shadier arms of the poison-spewing apparatus are already engaged in a slanderous campaign against the families of these hostages, as reported in detail by the Israeli watchdog FakeReporter.
(I found the watchdog site but I suspect the nut of that paragraph is in Hebrew, if anyone is willing to take the time to look it up)
posted by cendawanita at 9:28 PM on February 12 [11 favorites]
This has been in response (decades at this point) of Israeli detaining Palestinians (and in many instances with no evidence and IN THOSE INSTANCES INCLUDE THOSE OUTSIDE OF GAZA). The successful failure of Oct 7 was the fact that the deranged settler politics and increased religiosity of Israel as a state meant Shabbat was properly observed even at the border areas which is sparsely staffed since most resources went to the settlements - the ones no one outside Israel would even give the fig leaf is legal - which caused the incredible carnage, which as Israelis are finding out (less so us outsiders) have notably also been contributed by their panicking security forces. Kidnapping then sieging (remember 2021 iirc?) then negotiations then released has been the incredibly fatalistic duet that Israelis have caused Palestinians to engage in.
at the same time implicitly recognizing the legitimacy of the Hamas government, is Hamas still attempting to get rewarded for invading Israel.
For reasons above I'm not going with their attempt as described as an invasion, but otherwise the question must be asked, why would Israel have a say in the sovereign conduct of their neighbour (to use particularly favourite term of art, and not in fact "colony")?
I absolutely agree Hamas is not powerless. Hamas also isn't quite a state actor but it's also to date the governing entity of Gaza, not all of Palestine - it's become both a resistance movement but also proto-state actor, in large part due to the length of this occupation. But even in that, note that the internationally recognised "State of Palestine" is under the PA inheriting the status given to the PLO, who governs the West Bank, and shall we go over what's been going on there?
(Reuters yesterday): Netanyahu says 'enough' remaining Israeli hostages alive to warrant Gaza war
(Haaretz the day before; analysis by Amos Harel ) Netanyahu Prefers Hollow Slogans About 'Total Victory' in Gaza Over the Lives of Israeli Hostages - According to all the signals he is conveying, the prime minister does not intend to risk the continued survival of his coalition with a new deal that will involve concessions that would impact his relations with the ultra-right wing of his coalition. It appears that for him, the hostages can wait.
Netanyahu prefers instead to utter hollow slogans about a decisive victory in the Gaza Strip, which he claims is attainable.
As part of an attempt to intimidate Hamas, Netanyahu announced that he had instructed the IDF to prepare for capturing Rafah and to get ready for the evacuation of the civilian population from the area; this evacuation of 1.3 million people living under extremely overcrowded conditions is part of an American demand in case Israel does go ahead with this plan.
(...) Netanyahu's intentions are also obvious in the manner in which his mouthpieces have been behaving. TV Channel 13 has reported that his office has pressured Likud cabinet members to come out publicly against the proposed hostage deal. In studios at his "house" Channel 14 – a privately owned commercial Israeli broadcaster – commentators are preparing public opinion for the need to relinquish the idea of bringing hostages home, for the sake of a final victory.
Shadier arms of the poison-spewing apparatus are already engaged in a slanderous campaign against the families of these hostages, as reported in detail by the Israeli watchdog FakeReporter.
(I found the watchdog site but I suspect the nut of that paragraph is in Hebrew, if anyone is willing to take the time to look it up)
posted by cendawanita at 9:28 PM on February 12 [11 favorites]
(Fixed my comment just within the edit window - those triangle brackets are Hamas)
posted by cendawanita at 9:38 PM on February 12
posted by cendawanita at 9:38 PM on February 12
Biden has the carrier groups and smart munitions, so he can dictate to a degree how Israel acts
Carrier group, the Ford sailed for Norfolk a month ago. with adequate supply a carrier group can stay in place for much longer than an extended tour of duty. I believe Biden brought the Ford home as a message.
even if acarrier group was ordered out today it would take quite a while to get there. this is all well but there's a slight analogy to this being in some aspects the United States government policy could be viewed as a ship, very hard and slow to turn. it's not quite accurate as a carrier group has smaller vessels that can turn pretty fast. I really don't believe this is the case so I've said in the previous threads that this is a calamity fuel by exigency. United States perceives War in miles, this war is measured in feet when it comes to civilian population. I think most government leaders advised netanyahu not to do what he is doing while doing their best diplomatically to preserve a country's right to defend but I think it's way past there are no more treaties, bound contracts, bilateral agreements, that can justify this. these notions that Biden is one of Israel's closest friend is not true when it comes to the American presidency that would be 'linen veins johnson'. (autocorrect preserve) it is my belief that Eisenhower would have cut off diplomatic relations immediately.
Biden called netanyahu an Asshole last night I read somewhere. I don't think one says this on a personal level coming from arguably the most powerful person in the world. perhaps one can view it as if the president of the United States calls you an a****** you're in deep s***. which leads me to let one last obviation, one the few things I could see that could resolve/help this within a day is making a deal with Egypt to get the people in to Egypt but that is only on contingent on a non-kinetic force to back up Palestinians right to return. one of the Republicans quote unquote speaking points the 100 or 300 billion we have invested. United States has spent a half a trillion maybe up to a trillion including the gulf Wars, couching in Israel as part of that protection / aggression. I would ask any business person and that's crazy pants but nonetheless if we invested so much money why would you be so worried about supporting the Israeli lobby that's only worth a few hundred billion. it's like tossing printed money into a howitzer. I suspect it's because of market capitalism, quarterly returns and whatnot. it just boggles the mind that we owe Israell weapons from the money that we gave him. it's been toutied, probably quite true that Israel has been a great source of middle East intelligence for the United States and other countries. intelligence would dictate, seemingly, for Israel to dump all their little intelligence, all their videos, all their photos for independent inspection to prove their point. I've seen cell phones down a hole and an arsenal that could probably gathered from my neighborhood. through these threads there are two things that I have observed. one that religiosity between the three Central religions have been kept separate from the conversations and some of the fights but basically omitted all together.. second, I have not seen one person who has tried to excuse hamas's terrorist and unforgivable actions. I think that says something.
posted by clavdivs at 9:43 PM on February 12 [5 favorites]
Carrier group, the Ford sailed for Norfolk a month ago. with adequate supply a carrier group can stay in place for much longer than an extended tour of duty. I believe Biden brought the Ford home as a message.
even if acarrier group was ordered out today it would take quite a while to get there. this is all well but there's a slight analogy to this being in some aspects the United States government policy could be viewed as a ship, very hard and slow to turn. it's not quite accurate as a carrier group has smaller vessels that can turn pretty fast. I really don't believe this is the case so I've said in the previous threads that this is a calamity fuel by exigency. United States perceives War in miles, this war is measured in feet when it comes to civilian population. I think most government leaders advised netanyahu not to do what he is doing while doing their best diplomatically to preserve a country's right to defend but I think it's way past there are no more treaties, bound contracts, bilateral agreements, that can justify this. these notions that Biden is one of Israel's closest friend is not true when it comes to the American presidency that would be 'linen veins johnson'. (autocorrect preserve) it is my belief that Eisenhower would have cut off diplomatic relations immediately.
Biden called netanyahu an Asshole last night I read somewhere. I don't think one says this on a personal level coming from arguably the most powerful person in the world. perhaps one can view it as if the president of the United States calls you an a****** you're in deep s***. which leads me to let one last obviation, one the few things I could see that could resolve/help this within a day is making a deal with Egypt to get the people in to Egypt but that is only on contingent on a non-kinetic force to back up Palestinians right to return. one of the Republicans quote unquote speaking points the 100 or 300 billion we have invested. United States has spent a half a trillion maybe up to a trillion including the gulf Wars, couching in Israel as part of that protection / aggression. I would ask any business person and that's crazy pants but nonetheless if we invested so much money why would you be so worried about supporting the Israeli lobby that's only worth a few hundred billion. it's like tossing printed money into a howitzer. I suspect it's because of market capitalism, quarterly returns and whatnot. it just boggles the mind that we owe Israell weapons from the money that we gave him. it's been toutied, probably quite true that Israel has been a great source of middle East intelligence for the United States and other countries. intelligence would dictate, seemingly, for Israel to dump all their little intelligence, all their videos, all their photos for independent inspection to prove their point. I've seen cell phones down a hole and an arsenal that could probably gathered from my neighborhood. through these threads there are two things that I have observed. one that religiosity between the three Central religions have been kept separate from the conversations and some of the fights but basically omitted all together.. second, I have not seen one person who has tried to excuse hamas's terrorist and unforgivable actions. I think that says something.
posted by clavdivs at 9:43 PM on February 12 [5 favorites]
Biden has the carrier groups and smart munitions, so he can dictate to a degree how Israel acts
But he also has winning an election to consider so, like any politician, he will follow the path of most votes.
posted by dg at 10:30 PM on February 12 [1 favorite]
But he also has winning an election to consider so, like any politician, he will follow the path of most votes.
posted by dg at 10:30 PM on February 12 [1 favorite]
In combination of this Ryan Grim tweet: Sen. Chris Van Hollen says he heard reports of children now dying of starvation - no longer on the brink, but now actually dying. He says he texted WFP head Cindy McCain, who wrote back:
“This is true. We are unable to get in enough food to keep people from the brink.”
With this comment bit: You don't need F-35 parts to kill the enemy. In the last decade alone, 400,000 dead in Sudan, up to 600,000 dead in Ethiopia, 350,000 dead in Nigeria, 370,000 dead in Yemen, not to mention other conflicts. None of them needed F-35 parts. - that I read as minimizing efforts to disrupt arms and weapons support, and which of course is true - all you need is a strong forward motion and a stick if the spirit moves you (or even jam), together they remind me of the WashPo article adrienneleigh previously shared: Young Israelis block aid to Gaza while IDF soldiers stand and watch
Specifically: The teens, and a smattering of people in their 20s, have come from all over Israel. They say that humanitarian aid to Gaza helps Hamas, and they’ll block it even if it means innocents starve.
Ben Shabat argues sugar and flour can be used to make bombs. “When you mix flour with potassium nitrate you get an explosive for a warhead,” he says. “Every pound of sugar and flour that goes into Gaza from Israel, we will get it back by the way of a rocket that will kill our children.”
(The rest of the excerpt of interest: The tactic is also about starvation. “When a soldier is hungry, he’s not fighting so well.”
And the children? “Nobody can say children are bad,” he says. But “the children from the past were murdering and raping and kidnapping” on Oct. 7.
Others say the aid isn’t even necessary.
“We heard they are giving them stuff that they don’t really, really need,” Attar says. “Like strawberries. I don’t think people there are crying for strawberries.”)
posted by cendawanita at 11:51 PM on February 12 [9 favorites]
“This is true. We are unable to get in enough food to keep people from the brink.”
With this comment bit: You don't need F-35 parts to kill the enemy. In the last decade alone, 400,000 dead in Sudan, up to 600,000 dead in Ethiopia, 350,000 dead in Nigeria, 370,000 dead in Yemen, not to mention other conflicts. None of them needed F-35 parts. - that I read as minimizing efforts to disrupt arms and weapons support, and which of course is true - all you need is a strong forward motion and a stick if the spirit moves you (or even jam), together they remind me of the WashPo article adrienneleigh previously shared: Young Israelis block aid to Gaza while IDF soldiers stand and watch
Specifically: The teens, and a smattering of people in their 20s, have come from all over Israel. They say that humanitarian aid to Gaza helps Hamas, and they’ll block it even if it means innocents starve.
Ben Shabat argues sugar and flour can be used to make bombs. “When you mix flour with potassium nitrate you get an explosive for a warhead,” he says. “Every pound of sugar and flour that goes into Gaza from Israel, we will get it back by the way of a rocket that will kill our children.”
(The rest of the excerpt of interest: The tactic is also about starvation. “When a soldier is hungry, he’s not fighting so well.”
And the children? “Nobody can say children are bad,” he says. But “the children from the past were murdering and raping and kidnapping” on Oct. 7.
Others say the aid isn’t even necessary.
“We heard they are giving them stuff that they don’t really, really need,” Attar says. “Like strawberries. I don’t think people there are crying for strawberries.”)
posted by cendawanita at 11:51 PM on February 12 [9 favorites]
Were we to be as assiduous to prevent violence as these aid blockers.
posted by cendawanita at 11:53 PM on February 12 [6 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 11:53 PM on February 12 [6 favorites]
Protesters take over the loudspeaker system at the Hague Central station as part of a demonstration against Israel's genocide and the complicity of the Netherlands government (Instagram video, subtitled)
posted by kmt at 1:56 AM on February 13 [8 favorites]
posted by kmt at 1:56 AM on February 13 [8 favorites]
These deliberate PR leaks about Biden calling Bibi an "asshole", while arming this asshole to the teeth, don't actually make Biden look any better. They make him look absolutely pathetic.
posted by nikodym at 3:47 AM on February 13 [16 favorites]
posted by nikodym at 3:47 AM on February 13 [16 favorites]
There’s no doubt that Biden Administration people hate Netanyahu. He has always preferred post-Bush Republicans to Democrats and has a gun to their head of pivoting Israel supporters to Trump if Biden misses a step. And that’s to say nothing of the younger - and much less Zionist and much more leftist - contingent in the administration, although a lot of their leaks are more wishful thinking / guilty confabulation than actually revealing what senior administration officials think.
posted by MattD at 5:21 AM on February 13 [6 favorites]
posted by MattD at 5:21 AM on February 13 [6 favorites]
Hamas isn't "allowing" anything here; Hamas doesn't have the power to stop Israel from being genocidaires.
Hamas won its election in 2006 and immediately responded to Israel leaving Gaza by launching rockets into Israeli towns and kidnapping Israeli soldiers in cross border raids. Hamas helped get Netanyahu elected, Hamas helped murder the Israeli peace movement and left wing politics in general, guaranteeing that each side would have the monstrous enemy it preferred. And then, instead of doing anything to provide basic services to the people it was supposed to be governing, Hamas literally dug the pipes from the ground that Israel left behind as part of a functioning water and sewerage system for Gaza and used the pipes to make rockets. Which it then indiscriminately fired into Israeli towns.
I find the need to infantalize these grown men by disclaiming all responsibility for their actions to be remarkable. Israel didn't want Gaza in 2005. Israel found a moment during Rabin's time and immediately after he was murdered during Ehud Barack's time to make a concerted effort to stop this vicious cycle. Both the PLO and Hamas decided that they preferred absolute victory at any cost over peace. They helped put Netanyahu into power. And now, having put someone they know to be a monster into power, Hamas picked a fight with him by murdering, raping, and kidnapping Israelis. Hamas knew damned well that a massively disproportionate response would be Netanyahu's go-to. Did they think he'd surrender and agree to dissolve Israel?
And now Haniyeh, from his secure luxury residence in Qatar, is willing to bravely fight until the very end. A normal government would sue for peace to stop this. Even lunatic genocidal regimes know when enough is enough and sue for peace to protect their lands and their people from the consequences of a total war fought through to the end. But Hamas instead gears up with its rump forces in the North for what? A last stand? I have seen Palestinian activists say "you'll have to kill us all, there can never be peace." You are dealing with a regime you're accusing of being genocidal fanatics and you're daring them to kill all of you? And you think they won't?
posted by 1adam12 at 5:45 AM on February 13 [12 favorites]
Hamas won its election in 2006 and immediately responded to Israel leaving Gaza by launching rockets into Israeli towns and kidnapping Israeli soldiers in cross border raids. Hamas helped get Netanyahu elected, Hamas helped murder the Israeli peace movement and left wing politics in general, guaranteeing that each side would have the monstrous enemy it preferred. And then, instead of doing anything to provide basic services to the people it was supposed to be governing, Hamas literally dug the pipes from the ground that Israel left behind as part of a functioning water and sewerage system for Gaza and used the pipes to make rockets. Which it then indiscriminately fired into Israeli towns.
I find the need to infantalize these grown men by disclaiming all responsibility for their actions to be remarkable. Israel didn't want Gaza in 2005. Israel found a moment during Rabin's time and immediately after he was murdered during Ehud Barack's time to make a concerted effort to stop this vicious cycle. Both the PLO and Hamas decided that they preferred absolute victory at any cost over peace. They helped put Netanyahu into power. And now, having put someone they know to be a monster into power, Hamas picked a fight with him by murdering, raping, and kidnapping Israelis. Hamas knew damned well that a massively disproportionate response would be Netanyahu's go-to. Did they think he'd surrender and agree to dissolve Israel?
And now Haniyeh, from his secure luxury residence in Qatar, is willing to bravely fight until the very end. A normal government would sue for peace to stop this. Even lunatic genocidal regimes know when enough is enough and sue for peace to protect their lands and their people from the consequences of a total war fought through to the end. But Hamas instead gears up with its rump forces in the North for what? A last stand? I have seen Palestinian activists say "you'll have to kill us all, there can never be peace." You are dealing with a regime you're accusing of being genocidal fanatics and you're daring them to kill all of you? And you think they won't?
posted by 1adam12 at 5:45 AM on February 13 [12 favorites]
“you say it’s bad to kill children but have you considered that our enemies were once children”, incredible. this is the logic of holocaust, cold indifference and thirst for blood. it’s almost impossible for me to believe someone said that out loud, it’s so heinous
posted by dis_integration at 6:16 AM on February 13 [29 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 6:16 AM on February 13 [29 favorites]
I find the need to infantalize these grown men by disclaiming all responsibility for their actions to be remarkable...
And now, having put someone they know to be a monster into power, Hamas picked a fight with him by murdering, raping, and kidnapping Israelis. Hamas knew damned well that a massively disproportionate response would be Netanyahu's go-to. Did they think he'd surrender and agree to dissolve Israel?
This feels a lot like you're doing the same, treating Netanyahu as an inevitable force of nature rather than a choice by the Israeli electorate, and his actions likewise, when they too are a choice.
If we want to hold Hamas responsible for their choices and actions and not passive-voice them as things that just happen, are consequences if the situation, then we need to do the same with the Israeli government and IDF.
posted by Dysk at 6:28 AM on February 13 [15 favorites]
And now, having put someone they know to be a monster into power, Hamas picked a fight with him by murdering, raping, and kidnapping Israelis. Hamas knew damned well that a massively disproportionate response would be Netanyahu's go-to. Did they think he'd surrender and agree to dissolve Israel?
This feels a lot like you're doing the same, treating Netanyahu as an inevitable force of nature rather than a choice by the Israeli electorate, and his actions likewise, when they too are a choice.
If we want to hold Hamas responsible for their choices and actions and not passive-voice them as things that just happen, are consequences if the situation, then we need to do the same with the Israeli government and IDF.
posted by Dysk at 6:28 AM on February 13 [15 favorites]
I find the need to infantalize these grown men by disclaiming all responsibility for their actions to be remarkable
I don't have to. But what is so irreconcilably difficult about taking in the fact that Hamas/Gaza resistance have been coming to the table and then also rebuffed? What's the point of restating that Hamas is a bad faith actor multiple times in different ways, eg "know when enough is enough and sue for peace", when it still doesn't change the fact they have been negotiating and the one who's not been honest is the war cabinet in Israel? If it helps even this Haaretz analysis pretty much recapped the dynamics of the last round of talks as such: Things will perhaps become more clear in Cairo, where negotiations on a hostage deal are slated to start up again on Tuesday with American, Egyptian and Qatari intermediaries. The U.S. delegation is being led by CIA Director William Burns. As of Sunday night, Israel had not announced whether it would be sending a delegation to the talks after Netanyahu called Hamas' initial response unacceptable.
Israel's conduct has astonished America and the two mediators. Hamas' demands are indeed extreme, as Netanyahu said, but this was no real surprise. Furthermore, the proposed deal agreed upon about two weeks ago in Paris (which includes the release of hostages and bodies in three stages in exchange for the release of many Palestinian prisoners and a prolonged cease-fire) was formulated on the basis of an Israeli initiative. The mediators worked to push it forward, only to discover that Netanyahu had chosen to make a grand U-turn.
Netanyahu's stance on a hostage deal is part and parcel of his remarks on Rafah and Israel's continued control of Gaza. On all key issues, the prime minister keeps to the right and to a hawkish line. His public remarks signal that he has no interest in a hostage deal that would risk his coalition's collapse. Neither will his government agree to a cease-fire lasting several months in Gaza (and which would probably lead to quiet with Hezbollah on the Lebanese border). Doing so would raise difficult questions. Why didn't we win? And what the hell happened on October 7?
A deal will not enable him to survive politically because he depends on his extreme-right partners. National Unity party leaders Benny Gantz and Gadi Eisenkot will soon have to decide on their next step.
And I don't want to relitigate 2005 withdrawal other than point even Israelis acknowledge the withdrawal of civilians didn't mark the end of the administrative and armed occupation, in fact it was seen as a strategic means to "freeze" the peace process. Even this both-sides HRW report from that era noted the trend line of the rocket attacks as well as the corresponding greater damage from Israel.
posted by cendawanita at 6:29 AM on February 13 [12 favorites]
I don't have to. But what is so irreconcilably difficult about taking in the fact that Hamas/Gaza resistance have been coming to the table and then also rebuffed? What's the point of restating that Hamas is a bad faith actor multiple times in different ways, eg "know when enough is enough and sue for peace", when it still doesn't change the fact they have been negotiating and the one who's not been honest is the war cabinet in Israel? If it helps even this Haaretz analysis pretty much recapped the dynamics of the last round of talks as such: Things will perhaps become more clear in Cairo, where negotiations on a hostage deal are slated to start up again on Tuesday with American, Egyptian and Qatari intermediaries. The U.S. delegation is being led by CIA Director William Burns. As of Sunday night, Israel had not announced whether it would be sending a delegation to the talks after Netanyahu called Hamas' initial response unacceptable.
Israel's conduct has astonished America and the two mediators. Hamas' demands are indeed extreme, as Netanyahu said, but this was no real surprise. Furthermore, the proposed deal agreed upon about two weeks ago in Paris (which includes the release of hostages and bodies in three stages in exchange for the release of many Palestinian prisoners and a prolonged cease-fire) was formulated on the basis of an Israeli initiative. The mediators worked to push it forward, only to discover that Netanyahu had chosen to make a grand U-turn.
Netanyahu's stance on a hostage deal is part and parcel of his remarks on Rafah and Israel's continued control of Gaza. On all key issues, the prime minister keeps to the right and to a hawkish line. His public remarks signal that he has no interest in a hostage deal that would risk his coalition's collapse. Neither will his government agree to a cease-fire lasting several months in Gaza (and which would probably lead to quiet with Hezbollah on the Lebanese border). Doing so would raise difficult questions. Why didn't we win? And what the hell happened on October 7?
A deal will not enable him to survive politically because he depends on his extreme-right partners. National Unity party leaders Benny Gantz and Gadi Eisenkot will soon have to decide on their next step.
And I don't want to relitigate 2005 withdrawal other than point even Israelis acknowledge the withdrawal of civilians didn't mark the end of the administrative and armed occupation, in fact it was seen as a strategic means to "freeze" the peace process. Even this both-sides HRW report from that era noted the trend line of the rocket attacks as well as the corresponding greater damage from Israel.
posted by cendawanita at 6:29 AM on February 13 [12 favorites]
On that note:
30 Jan: Hamas regroups in northern Gaza to prepare new offensive - that's the section Israel declared mission accomplished on btw
9 Feb: (Al-Monitor analysis) Hamas reemerges in northern Gaza weeks after Israel said it's dismantled
And this is so completely predictable. I and others made comments predicting this back at the beginning of these discussions, and if we amateurs can figure this out, certainly the professionals should be able to. Even after all this bombing and ground invasion, something like 2/3 or 3/4 of Hamas' forces are supposedly still intact, hunkered in their tunnels or wherever they are. All they have to do is pop out and fire some rockets or RPGs, and they've proven that they have not been eradicated. It's such a classic asymmetrical conflict issue, where the goals have to match what is possible.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:30 AM on February 13 [3 favorites]
30 Jan: Hamas regroups in northern Gaza to prepare new offensive - that's the section Israel declared mission accomplished on btw
9 Feb: (Al-Monitor analysis) Hamas reemerges in northern Gaza weeks after Israel said it's dismantled
And this is so completely predictable. I and others made comments predicting this back at the beginning of these discussions, and if we amateurs can figure this out, certainly the professionals should be able to. Even after all this bombing and ground invasion, something like 2/3 or 3/4 of Hamas' forces are supposedly still intact, hunkered in their tunnels or wherever they are. All they have to do is pop out and fire some rockets or RPGs, and they've proven that they have not been eradicated. It's such a classic asymmetrical conflict issue, where the goals have to match what is possible.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:30 AM on February 13 [3 favorites]
But what is so irreconcilably difficult about taking in the fact that Hamas/Gaza resistance have been coming to the table and then also rebuffed? What's the point of restating that Hamas is a bad faith actor multiple times in different ways, eg "know when enough is enough and sue for peace", when it still doesn't change the fact they have been negotiating and the one who's not been honest is the war cabinet in Israel.
My take, for what little it is worth, is that Hamas's proposed deal (the one that Netanyahu rejected out of hand) was meant as negotiation -- you initially offer unrealistically high, but expecting to bargain down and meet somewhere in the middle. Rejecting it like that, versus saying that the proposed deal has unacceptable elements but that negotiations are continuing, came off as a lack of good faith on the Israeli side.
There's going to have to be a negotiated deal eventually, and it's not going to be completely dictated by just one side since both sides have power and room for negotiation.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:40 AM on February 13 [1 favorite]
My take, for what little it is worth, is that Hamas's proposed deal (the one that Netanyahu rejected out of hand) was meant as negotiation -- you initially offer unrealistically high, but expecting to bargain down and meet somewhere in the middle. Rejecting it like that, versus saying that the proposed deal has unacceptable elements but that negotiations are continuing, came off as a lack of good faith on the Israeli side.
There's going to have to be a negotiated deal eventually, and it's not going to be completely dictated by just one side since both sides have power and room for negotiation.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:40 AM on February 13 [1 favorite]
I have seen Palestinian activists say "you'll have to kill us all, there can never be peace." You are dealing with a regime you're accusing of being genocidal fanatics and you're daring them to kill all of you? And you think they won't?
What do you expect to get out of posting stuff like this?
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 6:44 AM on February 13 [24 favorites]
What do you expect to get out of posting stuff like this?
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 6:44 AM on February 13 [24 favorites]
Did they think he'd surrender and agree to dissolve Israel?
Netanyahu can do it any time he wants but chooses not to...so sad. Why does Netanyahu and the Israeli government keep choosing "security policy" that lead to things like 10/7 attacks to their own country? Don't they realize the response they'll get, do they think there will be no violent militant resistance movements to apartheid and mass murder campaigns? They know damned well that trying to secure an apartheid state for themselves was not sustainable and would lead to something like this. It is almost like they want more 10/7s to happen in the future, sad...
posted by windbox at 7:12 AM on February 13 [6 favorites]
Netanyahu can do it any time he wants but chooses not to...so sad. Why does Netanyahu and the Israeli government keep choosing "security policy" that lead to things like 10/7 attacks to their own country? Don't they realize the response they'll get, do they think there will be no violent militant resistance movements to apartheid and mass murder campaigns? They know damned well that trying to secure an apartheid state for themselves was not sustainable and would lead to something like this. It is almost like they want more 10/7s to happen in the future, sad...
posted by windbox at 7:12 AM on February 13 [6 favorites]
Hamas has been absolutely clear in media it thinks you aren't watching that all of its negotiations are false and that its true, only goal is complete elimination of Israel. October 7 wasn't a rogue operation. Hamas doesn't want anything other than absolute victory and total destruction of Israel. One side is permitted to advocate total ethnic cleansing and to take affirmative steps to achieve this, which is excused. If an organization tells you, "I'm going to murder every single last one of you, burn down every single thing you've built, and the only way to stop this is to kill all of us," do you believe them? Or pretend that a negotiated settlement is still possible?
I don't excuse Netanyahu. I think in many ways by playing the role of the cartoon villain he's fallen into Hamas' hands and given them exactly what their bloody calculations called for. He has more than enough blood on his hands to swing for his crimes. But again, if your position is that someone is a lunatic murderer, and you pick a fight with this person by committing mass atrocities, what are you expecting to happen? The people of Gaza are paying the price for both sides' refusal to take their basic needs for survival into account. It's obvious why Netanyahu doesn't care. It's much less obvious to me why Hamas doesn't care, except that they prioritize victory in their overall policy to wipe Israel out over literally everything.
posted by 1adam12 at 7:51 AM on February 13 [7 favorites]
I don't excuse Netanyahu. I think in many ways by playing the role of the cartoon villain he's fallen into Hamas' hands and given them exactly what their bloody calculations called for. He has more than enough blood on his hands to swing for his crimes. But again, if your position is that someone is a lunatic murderer, and you pick a fight with this person by committing mass atrocities, what are you expecting to happen? The people of Gaza are paying the price for both sides' refusal to take their basic needs for survival into account. It's obvious why Netanyahu doesn't care. It's much less obvious to me why Hamas doesn't care, except that they prioritize victory in their overall policy to wipe Israel out over literally everything.
posted by 1adam12 at 7:51 AM on February 13 [7 favorites]
MisantropicPainforest's, I don't expect to get anything. I see death and destruction being carried out in my name and it sickens me, as a parent, as a human, and yes, as an Israeli. I want both sides to get realistic about what can and cannot happen, that neither set of bloody goals of completely destroying the other side is achievable and that we are going to have to learn to live together or we will destroy each other. Stop daring the other side to escalate! Stop bragging about how much damage you can cause or how much punishment you can take. People are dying! Act like it matters for goodness's sake.
posted by 1adam12 at 7:57 AM on February 13 [4 favorites]
posted by 1adam12 at 7:57 AM on February 13 [4 favorites]
I don't excuse Netanyahu. I think in many ways by playing the role of the cartoon villain he's fallen into Hamas' hands and given them exactly what their bloody calculations called for.
The second sentence sure reads like an excuse, in that you're assigning ultimate responsibility for Netanyahu's election and actions to Hamas, again.
And however robotically genocidal you think Netanyahu is, however inevitable the outcomes for the Palestinians with him in charge - the Israeli electorate did not have to elect him. That too was a choice.
But apparently it is only the choices of the Palestinians that are stupid and motivated by evil? Not the ones of the people killing civilians at a 20:1 ratio over their own losses?
posted by Dysk at 8:18 AM on February 13 [10 favorites]
The second sentence sure reads like an excuse, in that you're assigning ultimate responsibility for Netanyahu's election and actions to Hamas, again.
And however robotically genocidal you think Netanyahu is, however inevitable the outcomes for the Palestinians with him in charge - the Israeli electorate did not have to elect him. That too was a choice.
But apparently it is only the choices of the Palestinians that are stupid and motivated by evil? Not the ones of the people killing civilians at a 20:1 ratio over their own losses?
posted by Dysk at 8:18 AM on February 13 [10 favorites]
But again, if your position is that someone is a lunatic murderer, and you pick a fight with this person by committing mass atrocities, what are you expecting to happen? The people of Gaza are paying the price for both sides' refusal to take their basic needs for survival into account. It's obvious why Netanyahu doesn't care. It's much less obvious to me why Hamas doesn't care, except that they prioritize victory in their overall policy to wipe Israel out over literally everything.
You need to take a good hard look in the mirror if you are attributing responsibility for a genocide to anyone but the people actually committing the genocide. Also you're posting links from a hate site.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 8:19 AM on February 13 [22 favorites]
You need to take a good hard look in the mirror if you are attributing responsibility for a genocide to anyone but the people actually committing the genocide. Also you're posting links from a hate site.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 8:19 AM on February 13 [22 favorites]
(For reference: Please understand that MEMRI may as well be the "BLACK CRIME" section of Breitbart...ultra right wing dog shit nonsense founded by former Israel military officers for "liberal" zionists to share out how unreasonable and illogical the uncivilized arab brutes behave. Fuck that shit, it shouldn't even allowed to be linked here)
posted by windbox at 8:20 AM on February 13 [18 favorites]
posted by windbox at 8:20 AM on February 13 [18 favorites]
MEMRI has repeatedly mistranslated Arabic in order to make the speakers look more fucked up.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 8:24 AM on February 13 [8 favorites]
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 8:24 AM on February 13 [8 favorites]
A translated interview from a source with an agenda and a serious case of selection bias.
posted by Dysk at 8:24 AM on February 13 [5 favorites]
posted by Dysk at 8:24 AM on February 13 [5 favorites]
It's fine to talk about how bad Hamas is, as long as you talk about how bad Israel is as well proportionally. Since the death toll since Oct 7 is about 33,000 people killed by Israel to 1,000 people killed by Hamas, for every single Hamas condemnation post I expect to see the same user make 33 posts condemning Israel with similar seriousness.
posted by Cpt. The Mango at 8:41 AM on February 13 [7 favorites]
posted by Cpt. The Mango at 8:41 AM on February 13 [7 favorites]
The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI), officially the Middle East Media and Research Institute,[1] is an American non-profit press monitoring and analysis organization that was co-founded by Israeli ex-intelligence officer Yigal Carmon and Israeli-American political scientist Meyrav Wurmser in 1997. It publishes and distributes free copies of media reports that have been translated into English—primarily from Arabic and Persian, but also from Urdu, Turkish, Pashto, and Russian.[5]
Critics describe MEMRI as a strongly pro-Israel advocacy group that, in spite of describing itself as being "independent" and "non-partisan" in nature,[6][7][8] aims to portray the Arab world and the Muslim world in a negative light by producing and disseminating incomplete or inaccurate translations of the original versions of the media reports that it re-publishes.[9][10] It has also been accused of selectively focusing on the views of Islamic extremists while de-emphasizing or ignoring mainstream opinions.[11]
posted by elkevelvet at 8:46 AM on February 13 [12 favorites]
Critics describe MEMRI as a strongly pro-Israel advocacy group that, in spite of describing itself as being "independent" and "non-partisan" in nature,[6][7][8] aims to portray the Arab world and the Muslim world in a negative light by producing and disseminating incomplete or inaccurate translations of the original versions of the media reports that it re-publishes.[9][10] It has also been accused of selectively focusing on the views of Islamic extremists while de-emphasizing or ignoring mainstream opinions.[11]
posted by elkevelvet at 8:46 AM on February 13 [12 favorites]
Ok so who can share a better link, the one where Khaled Mashal says he will accept the existence of Israel?
posted by Press Butt.on to Check at 8:52 AM on February 13
posted by Press Butt.on to Check at 8:52 AM on February 13
windbox I will accept any other version of this interview from any other source translated into any language I can understand.
posted by 1adam12 at 8:53 AM on February 13
posted by 1adam12 at 8:53 AM on February 13
it doesn't matter if khaled mashal says he will accept the existence of israel, and i don't care. there's no set of words or actions that could possibly justify israel's current actions either morally or legally. you're trying to justify genocide by sealioning, and should be ashamed.
posted by dis_integration at 9:12 AM on February 13 [26 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 9:12 AM on February 13 [26 favorites]
Surely this has been said already, but bears repeating?
Attributing the despicable actions of Hamas on one side, and the despicable genocidal actions of Netanyahu, on the other side - to encompass ALL OF THE PEOPLE on either "side", is pure foolishness.
Can we not agree that MOST Palestinians, and MOST Israelis, would overwhelmingly prefer to get on with their normal lives, live in peace, enjoy their families, and do not approve of the horrific crimes of the current "leadership" on either side? (I am NOT saying they are equally bad. I have no idea. But Netanyahu is currently committing war crimes daily/hourly and like many, I wish Biden would do something substantial.)
posted by Glinn at 9:24 AM on February 13 [10 favorites]
Attributing the despicable actions of Hamas on one side, and the despicable genocidal actions of Netanyahu, on the other side - to encompass ALL OF THE PEOPLE on either "side", is pure foolishness.
Can we not agree that MOST Palestinians, and MOST Israelis, would overwhelmingly prefer to get on with their normal lives, live in peace, enjoy their families, and do not approve of the horrific crimes of the current "leadership" on either side? (I am NOT saying they are equally bad. I have no idea. But Netanyahu is currently committing war crimes daily/hourly and like many, I wish Biden would do something substantial.)
posted by Glinn at 9:24 AM on February 13 [10 favorites]
Re: Khaled M -- I'll be honest, I am genuinely not sure why I can't find any other coverage of this interview outside of rightwing/pro-war Israeli sources. The closest is Times of Israel, which is.... At best the coverage I did see is the interview he had with Al-Arabiya which is contentious to say the least. I'm not trying to deny things but outside of the Bari Weiss circle I don't even see this covered elsewhere, and my algos include at this point (sigh) PRC tankies and people who unironically share bodycam clips of the ground fighting, far less the centre-left or -right. I do get wider hits once I account for the romanisation of his name but the larger net doesn't change the shape of the hits. The more honest coverage does note he's a former leader (of the political bureau) and at best the "diaspora office" representative (otherwise, the presentation is that he's a Hamas leader), so to the extent you want to use him as a bogeyman, maybe I'll stick to the people actually at the table.
But I suppose, the fear is warranted. After all, for years we've been reassured that people like Smotrich and Ben-Gvir are fringe sorts, and do not represent Israel and there are more reasonable figures... Like Herzog and the two more moderate ministers who called for aid to be further restricted.
posted by cendawanita at 9:32 AM on February 13 [6 favorites]
But I suppose, the fear is warranted. After all, for years we've been reassured that people like Smotrich and Ben-Gvir are fringe sorts, and do not represent Israel and there are more reasonable figures... Like Herzog and the two more moderate ministers who called for aid to be further restricted.
posted by cendawanita at 9:32 AM on February 13 [6 favorites]
Does anyone here really still believe, after four months, that commenters conflating Palestinians with Hamas are playing on the level?
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 9:32 AM on February 13 [16 favorites]
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 9:32 AM on February 13 [16 favorites]
Ok so who can share a better link, the one where Khaled Mashal says he will accept the existence of Israel?
windbox I will accept any other version of this interview from any other source translated into any language I can understand.
what is going on here
I can guarantee you that the long term sustainability of the State of Israel is in greater jeopardy now, than it has been in generations. And this has nothing to do with the words or actions of Khaled Mashal. What are you doing here, what is your point
posted by elkevelvet at 9:33 AM on February 13 [11 favorites]
windbox I will accept any other version of this interview from any other source translated into any language I can understand.
what is going on here
I can guarantee you that the long term sustainability of the State of Israel is in greater jeopardy now, than it has been in generations. And this has nothing to do with the words or actions of Khaled Mashal. What are you doing here, what is your point
posted by elkevelvet at 9:33 AM on February 13 [11 favorites]
Mod note: One comment deleted. You may disagree passionately with others in the site and maybe talk in very critical terms about what they are saying, but name calling and being offensive towards other members goes against our Content Policy.
posted by loup (staff) at 9:33 AM on February 13 [2 favorites]
posted by loup (staff) at 9:33 AM on February 13 [2 favorites]
What are you doing here, what is your point
Please don't confuse my rudeness with 1adam12's well stated comments above. The derail about MEMRI and the offensiveness with which it was stated was all I was reacting to. I believe a reread of 1adam12 will make their points clear.
posted by Press Butt.on to Check at 9:51 AM on February 13
Please don't confuse my rudeness with 1adam12's well stated comments above. The derail about MEMRI and the offensiveness with which it was stated was all I was reacting to. I believe a reread of 1adam12 will make their points clear.
posted by Press Butt.on to Check at 9:51 AM on February 13
From a @washingtonpost story about Israelis blocking aid trucks for Palestinians:
Every explosion in Gaza raises a cheer.
“Dead, dead, dead Arabs,” one camper shouts at a roaring volley of outgoing fire. Then she notes the presence of a reporter. “Hamas,” she corrects herself.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 10:19 AM on February 13 [15 favorites]
Every explosion in Gaza raises a cheer.
“Dead, dead, dead Arabs,” one camper shouts at a roaring volley of outgoing fire. Then she notes the presence of a reporter. “Hamas,” she corrects herself.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 10:19 AM on February 13 [15 favorites]
(I think I'll post more newsy links here and the longer term legal takes in the previous-but-still-active thread since it was set up around the ICJ Order for the provisional measures and it'll be usable still when the 19th February hearing on the legality of the occupation question happens - which, just as a refresher, was sparked by Russia's invasion of Ukraine and the UNGA raised the question to the ICJ, that if that occupation is illegal, then what is the final word, legally, on this one?)
- (The National; Scotland) Israel caught out for using Moldova footage in Gaza aid tweet
- I don't even know why there're even more clips *now* (though Yoav Gallant did say in public about please don't post any videos that might be difficult to explain politically) but if you're on twt, journalist Younis Tirawi lately has been sharing IDF soldiers' socmed clips as well as other Israelis's actions. The last ones I noted are this one from a group of settlers setting houses on fire in a Nablus village. (Mairav Zonsvein adds that no arrests were made) and this one: Israeli soldiers post a video on social media showing the destruction & burning of food warehouses in western Gaza City 3 days ago. This comes after a severe famine affecting North Gaza, where people are struggling for survival
- This clip from the Knesset: - Israel’s deputy of Knesset and member of Netenyahu’s likud party, MK Nissik Vaturi:
"In Gaza we deal only with terrorists. If someone gets a b*llet - he probably deserves it"
- Ramy Abdu as well: Breaking: Israeli tanks are surrounding Nasser Hospital in Khan Yunis, demanding medical staff, patients, and displaced civilians to evacuate, referring to them as dogs and animals. (with video)
But there are a lot of crowdsourced efforts of varying types and capacities to document or at least host so much of this media. Just using this thread to refresh my memory (CW: quite a number will not have very sympathetic names):
- Crimes By Israel (a very long PDF at this point)
- Gaza 23 - pix and vids
- Martyrs of Gaza - personal stories of known victims
- Zionism Observer - quotes
- Law 4 Palestine - also quotes and statements especially with an eye regarding establishing intent sorted by social function (politicians, media, etc)
- Stand with Palestine - from Egypt with similar objective but they do succinct data stuff
- Israel Quotes - as described, but in excel.
- Oct 7 Factcheck - from the Tech 4 Palestine team
- Palestine Datasets - so you can generate info charts or tables in a variety of formats
- IDF Psychos - socmed stuff including what's been circulating on Telegram
- Palestine Remembered - details of the cities and villages destroyed
- CPJ interactive map - of every journalist killed
- Counting the kids - simple data visualisation of children sorted by nationality killed since 2000 - scrolling down is a gut punch.
- Gaza Passages - English translation of writings from Palestinian writers
Random possibly boycott-related: RyanAir abruptly cancelled all flights to Israel from March with no explanation.
Less randomly: (Euro-Med Monitor) “They brought Israeli civilians to watch our nude torture”: IDF torture of Palestinian prisoners is turned into entertainment for Israeli viewers
posted by cendawanita at 10:33 AM on February 13 [20 favorites]
- (The National; Scotland) Israel caught out for using Moldova footage in Gaza aid tweet
- I don't even know why there're even more clips *now* (though Yoav Gallant did say in public about please don't post any videos that might be difficult to explain politically) but if you're on twt, journalist Younis Tirawi lately has been sharing IDF soldiers' socmed clips as well as other Israelis's actions. The last ones I noted are this one from a group of settlers setting houses on fire in a Nablus village. (Mairav Zonsvein adds that no arrests were made) and this one: Israeli soldiers post a video on social media showing the destruction & burning of food warehouses in western Gaza City 3 days ago. This comes after a severe famine affecting North Gaza, where people are struggling for survival
- This clip from the Knesset: - Israel’s deputy of Knesset and member of Netenyahu’s likud party, MK Nissik Vaturi:
"In Gaza we deal only with terrorists. If someone gets a b*llet - he probably deserves it"
- Ramy Abdu as well: Breaking: Israeli tanks are surrounding Nasser Hospital in Khan Yunis, demanding medical staff, patients, and displaced civilians to evacuate, referring to them as dogs and animals. (with video)
But there are a lot of crowdsourced efforts of varying types and capacities to document or at least host so much of this media. Just using this thread to refresh my memory (CW: quite a number will not have very sympathetic names):
- Crimes By Israel (a very long PDF at this point)
- Gaza 23 - pix and vids
- Martyrs of Gaza - personal stories of known victims
- Zionism Observer - quotes
- Law 4 Palestine - also quotes and statements especially with an eye regarding establishing intent sorted by social function (politicians, media, etc)
- Stand with Palestine - from Egypt with similar objective but they do succinct data stuff
- Israel Quotes - as described, but in excel.
- Oct 7 Factcheck - from the Tech 4 Palestine team
- Palestine Datasets - so you can generate info charts or tables in a variety of formats
- IDF Psychos - socmed stuff including what's been circulating on Telegram
- Palestine Remembered - details of the cities and villages destroyed
- CPJ interactive map - of every journalist killed
- Counting the kids - simple data visualisation of children sorted by nationality killed since 2000 - scrolling down is a gut punch.
- Gaza Passages - English translation of writings from Palestinian writers
Random possibly boycott-related: RyanAir abruptly cancelled all flights to Israel from March with no explanation.
Less randomly: (Euro-Med Monitor) “They brought Israeli civilians to watch our nude torture”: IDF torture of Palestinian prisoners is turned into entertainment for Israeli viewers
posted by cendawanita at 10:33 AM on February 13 [20 favorites]
Hamas is not going to "eliminate" Israel, that's not a thing, that's like saying the UK is at risk of being "destroyed" by terrorists coming in as immigrants or that the police are "under attack", it is stupid right wing fiction that Israel has to make up for themselves to feel like they are justified in the asymmetrical violence and apartheid they administer, even though there is full knowledge that there will be violent outbursts of resistance against it - yet zero plan for stopping it beyond more bombing campaigns, incursions, checkpoints, Iron Dome automated security bullshit, and a slew of flowing propaganda from orgs like MEMRI to make sure everyone understands that "these are savage irrational brutes who are not like us, you see!!!"
Israel is a nuclear power backed by the entire western world, it's not going to be "destroyed", it's population is not going anywhere without WW3 being started. Enough with it already. I have zero tolerance for this cry-bully shit, literally the only country where an occupier plays the victim like this. Same garbage as the police unions whining about how dangerous their jobs are and how at risk they are because "look at this video of this protestor who said KILL PIGS on Brietbart dot com! Look at this video of black criminals playing knockout game!!!"
That is to say: Everyone with half a brain sees through it, it's getting fucking old, it's got no juice anymore sorry! It's embarrassing and deeply pathetic, and count me as a Jewish person who is just so utterly embarrassed by Israel and it's defenders behaving this way under the banner of the Star of David. Take it all up with your own apartheid state, it's that government's fault, if you think they they are the Bigger People and the Reasonable Negotiators and the Civilized Legitimate Country and the True Democracy of the Middle East then it's entirely 100% on them to solve this problem. Not non-state militant violent resistance groups that will always spring up as a natural response to occupation. Like shaking your fist at hurricanes and typhoons in the wake of man-made climate change - utterly pointless and serves zero purpose than to distract what the underlying issue of it all is.
posted by windbox at 10:38 AM on February 13 [41 favorites]
Israel is a nuclear power backed by the entire western world, it's not going to be "destroyed", it's population is not going anywhere without WW3 being started. Enough with it already. I have zero tolerance for this cry-bully shit, literally the only country where an occupier plays the victim like this. Same garbage as the police unions whining about how dangerous their jobs are and how at risk they are because "look at this video of this protestor who said KILL PIGS on Brietbart dot com! Look at this video of black criminals playing knockout game!!!"
That is to say: Everyone with half a brain sees through it, it's getting fucking old, it's got no juice anymore sorry! It's embarrassing and deeply pathetic, and count me as a Jewish person who is just so utterly embarrassed by Israel and it's defenders behaving this way under the banner of the Star of David. Take it all up with your own apartheid state, it's that government's fault, if you think they they are the Bigger People and the Reasonable Negotiators and the Civilized Legitimate Country and the True Democracy of the Middle East then it's entirely 100% on them to solve this problem. Not non-state militant violent resistance groups that will always spring up as a natural response to occupation. Like shaking your fist at hurricanes and typhoons in the wake of man-made climate change - utterly pointless and serves zero purpose than to distract what the underlying issue of it all is.
posted by windbox at 10:38 AM on February 13 [41 favorites]
cendawanita, i haven't said this yet but i really appreciate the work you're putting into sharing these sources.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 10:40 AM on February 13 [33 favorites]
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 10:40 AM on February 13 [33 favorites]
No sooner than me saying I'll keep the legal stuff and newsy stuff in separate threads....
Itay Epshtain: BREAKING: #SouthAfrica asked the International Court of Justice @CIJ_ICJ #ICJ to indicate additional provisional measures in connection with #Israel's planned offensive on #Rafah. A short explainer:
Article 75(3) of the #ICJ Rules of Court allows for a "fresh request" to indicate provisional measures. This is a rare occurrence. Of the 45 cases in which the Court ordered provisional measures, in only 6 (out of 8 requests) did it make such an order. If the #ICJ were to grant South Africa's request, it would be unprecedented in urgency and immediacy, and understandably so, given the peril faced by #Palestinians in southern #Gaza and beyond.
@BarakRavid reports just now that Additional Minister of Defense #Smotrich is obstructing flour deliveries to #Gaza, a humanitarian relief consignment that @UNRWA was to deliver to Palestinians in dire need. Three immediate observations:
1/ The Integrated Food Security Phase Classification #IPC shows that the entire population of #Gaza is highly food insecure and at risk of famine. Arbitrarily and capricouly denying the population flour shipments will drive them further towards famine.
2/ #Israel is due to report to the #ICJ on 25 February on measures taken to comply with the order to to "enable the provision of urgently needed basic services and humanitarian assistance to address the adverse conditions of life faced by #Palestinians in #Gaza."
3/ #Israel will fail to demonstrate compliance with the order of provisional measures right at the time when the Court will consider ordering additional - and perhaps more stringent - measures, including an immediate cessation of hostilities in #Gaza.
Re: sharing - no worries, it's literally the least I can do at this point, and I keep going because it's a group effort honestly, because there're always things I'll miss out too.
posted by cendawanita at 10:45 AM on February 13 [14 favorites]
Itay Epshtain: BREAKING: #SouthAfrica asked the International Court of Justice @CIJ_ICJ #ICJ to indicate additional provisional measures in connection with #Israel's planned offensive on #Rafah. A short explainer:
Article 75(3) of the #ICJ Rules of Court allows for a "fresh request" to indicate provisional measures. This is a rare occurrence. Of the 45 cases in which the Court ordered provisional measures, in only 6 (out of 8 requests) did it make such an order. If the #ICJ were to grant South Africa's request, it would be unprecedented in urgency and immediacy, and understandably so, given the peril faced by #Palestinians in southern #Gaza and beyond.
@BarakRavid reports just now that Additional Minister of Defense #Smotrich is obstructing flour deliveries to #Gaza, a humanitarian relief consignment that @UNRWA was to deliver to Palestinians in dire need. Three immediate observations:
1/ The Integrated Food Security Phase Classification #IPC shows that the entire population of #Gaza is highly food insecure and at risk of famine. Arbitrarily and capricouly denying the population flour shipments will drive them further towards famine.
2/ #Israel is due to report to the #ICJ on 25 February on measures taken to comply with the order to to "enable the provision of urgently needed basic services and humanitarian assistance to address the adverse conditions of life faced by #Palestinians in #Gaza."
3/ #Israel will fail to demonstrate compliance with the order of provisional measures right at the time when the Court will consider ordering additional - and perhaps more stringent - measures, including an immediate cessation of hostilities in #Gaza.
Re: sharing - no worries, it's literally the least I can do at this point, and I keep going because it's a group effort honestly, because there're always things I'll miss out too.
posted by cendawanita at 10:45 AM on February 13 [14 favorites]
Frye squint dot jpg:
(Huff Post) The Biden Administration Is Investigating Israel's Possible War Crimes — Despite Public Claims To The Contrary - White House spokesman John Kirby said last month such probes are not occurring, but sources tell HuffPost U.S. officials have been assessing Israel's possible international law violations for months.
Ahmed tends to get reliable scoops but not sure how far this is a "just in case" measure or "Biden is really angry" story (which tbf is more of an Axios thing with Ravid), but anyway, here's a News.
posted by cendawanita at 11:13 AM on February 13 [1 favorite]
(Huff Post) The Biden Administration Is Investigating Israel's Possible War Crimes — Despite Public Claims To The Contrary - White House spokesman John Kirby said last month such probes are not occurring, but sources tell HuffPost U.S. officials have been assessing Israel's possible international law violations for months.
Ahmed tends to get reliable scoops but not sure how far this is a "just in case" measure or "Biden is really angry" story (which tbf is more of an Axios thing with Ravid), but anyway, here's a News.
posted by cendawanita at 11:13 AM on February 13 [1 favorite]
MEMRI is the organization headed by that super racist and Islamophobic piece of shit who wrote the WSJ editorial that directly endangered the lives of every Arab and Muslim in Dearborn recently.
Complain all you want about how it's unfair, but maybe ask yourselves why that's the specific source that was posted here, and you'll also have to deal with people wondering what awful, bigoted sludge you were wading in to use it.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 12:04 PM on February 13 [17 favorites]
Complain all you want about how it's unfair, but maybe ask yourselves why that's the specific source that was posted here, and you'll also have to deal with people wondering what awful, bigoted sludge you were wading in to use it.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 12:04 PM on February 13 [17 favorites]
I need everyone to understand that when the UN says that Gaza is at extreme risk of famine, what they are actually telling you is that Gaza is at risk of having 2 in every 1000 people (0.2%) die of starvation every single day. In a population of 2.1 million people, that is 4200 people dying per day of starvation-related causes, irrespective of how many are bombed and otherwise directly murdered by occupation forces.
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:42 PM on February 13 [20 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:42 PM on February 13 [20 favorites]
I keep trying to argue with specific points but it all feels endless. I'll just say this, which I read somewhere on social media: I wish for you what you wish for Palestinians.
posted by numaner at 12:52 PM on February 13 [12 favorites]
posted by numaner at 12:52 PM on February 13 [12 favorites]
Also note that famine is an ongoing catastrophic condition, starvation causes long-term changes in the body, and even if the blockade were completely lifted tomorrow and enough calories for the entire population were trucked in, it would be weeks-to-months before people stop dying of hunger, and years before they stop dying of sequelae.
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:57 PM on February 13 [15 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:57 PM on February 13 [15 favorites]
A few links for now:
US won't punish Israel for Rafah op that doesn't protect civilians
Israeli minister blocking flour Bibi promised Biden would be allowed into Gaza
McDonald's sales dented by Israel-Gaza boycotts
posted by toastyk at 3:59 PM on February 13 [7 favorites]
US won't punish Israel for Rafah op that doesn't protect civilians
Israeli minister blocking flour Bibi promised Biden would be allowed into Gaza
McDonald's sales dented by Israel-Gaza boycotts
posted by toastyk at 3:59 PM on February 13 [7 favorites]
Haaretz has published (in Hebrew, not English) an incomprehensibly vile article in the style of a lifestyle cooking feature, about Israel's soldiers finding and cooking with ingredients in the kitchens of Gazans who had to flee their homes and are now starving.a Twitter thread by @gawanmac with more details about the article
posted by adrienneleigh at 4:17 PM on February 13 [8 favorites]
The fact it's become a glossy lifestyle piece really adds to the, "we need to file a separate set of war crimes for journalism/media" folder I've apparently started mentally keeping.
posted by cendawanita at 6:34 PM on February 13 [7 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 6:34 PM on February 13 [7 favorites]
Interesting that this came across my feed: (Ezra Klein Show) Building the Palestinian State with Salam Fayyad - At the face of it, it's fairly clear that there's motivation to remind the American (outside) public of the Palestinian Authority. But I've seen reports (which I didn't save) about the coalition-building happening on the ground, mainly around the Gaza resistance - I don't know how much PA is actually involved on this (because the American charm offensive is also important for them too, outside all this). However, I am reading something into this, as a layman, in combination with earlier reports that Hamas is also asking that Marwan Barghouti (of Fatah) to be released, which I've heard from other people such as Peter Beinart. In any case, last week's Guardian (opinion by Jo Mort): Israel should free Marwan Barghouti. He is crucial to any hope of a longterm peace
(check the comments to the podcast for the timestamps)
In any case:
(Al-Jazeera) France sanctions 28 Israeli settlers over West Bank violence - France said it would also seek sanctions at the European level. [...] On Monday, British Foreign Secretary David Cameron announced the sanctions on four Israeli nationals accused of attacking Palestinians in the occupied West Bank.
“Extremist Israeli settlers are threatening Palestinians, often at gunpoint, and forcing them off land that is rightfully theirs,” Cameron said.
This tracks with the ICC Prosecutor statement earlier that at most we can expect from the main allies of Israel is a coordinated effort against the illegal settlements. Which is something. But not Gaza.
(972) ‘Change in Israel will only happen when there are costs that force our eyes open’ - this is an interview with Yagil Levy, which I find interesting as earlier this week on Haaretz (analysis piece) Anger Is Rising in Wartime Israel About Which Israelis Must Go and Fight -
Like many other Israeli controversies, this one would have been set aside during wartime – Israel has far more pressing issues right now – if it weren't for a new bill being prepared for swift legislation in the Knesset. If passed, this bill will extend the period of compulsory service for young men to three years (it's currently 32 months), while the age at which former conscripts can be called up for the reserves will be 45 (instead of the current 40). And while most active reservists previously did 25 days of operational duty every three years, now they will be liable to do 40 days annually.
Many reservists have already spent four months in uniform since the war began – and by all accounts, the motivation to turn up for duty has been high following Oct. 7, and remains so. But the prospect of having to do a lot more reserve duty in the years to come, when tensions will likely remain much higher than before the war not just in Gaza but on the northern front and the West Bank too, has put the spotlight back on those who won't be spending long months on patrol.
So far, the Haredi leadership has tried to lower its profile on the matter. Its leaders have no intention of allowing their students to enlist – it would empty the yeshivas and end their control over the young men in their communities – but the politicians are savvy enough to know that there's no way they can win this battle in the court of public opinion.
However, while they can simply refuse to give interviews for a period, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who relies on them as crucial ruling coalition partners, is exposed. Or as one minister put it: "Netanyahu is trying to make a comeback in the polls, but his problem is not only that Israelis don't want him as prime minister after Oct. 7. Now they don't want his partners either, and they're dragging each other down."
Scoops like this (in Hebrew) is probably not helping, by Sulaiman Mawasdeh -
1/4 We published for the first time here 11: The Mossad, the Shin Bet and the IDF formulated a new outline for the release of hostages - which was rejected by Netanyahu.
Prime Minister Netanyahu rejected a new outline for the release of abductees drawn up by the three senior officials - the head of the Mossad Dedi Barnea, the head of the Shin Bet Ronan Bar, and Major General Nitzan Alon.
Feb 13, 2024 · 6:09 PM UTC
2/4 The outline came up several times in talks with the Prime Minister, and came up for the last time during a limited consultation call with the participation of Netanyahu, Galant, and the three professional officials (without the presence of Benny Gantz), hours before the seniors' trip to Cairo.
The new outline included changes in several parameters (which cannot be specified at this stage).
3/4 Netanyahu, to the dismay of the head of the Mossad, the head of the Shin Bet and the person in charge of the issue on behalf of the IDF, definitively rejected the presentation of the new outline at the Cairo summit in the same conversation, and ordered the team to travel anyway "to listen".
Three different sources confirmed the news.
4/4 A political source said that the problem was and remains "the unreasonable demands of Hamas to stop the war
After the plan was rejected, Major General Nitzan Alon, who is in charge of the abductee issue on behalf of the IDF, decided not to go to Cairo.
(Wired) Satellite Images Point to Indiscriminate Israeli Attacks on Gaza’s Health Care Facilities
posted by cendawanita at 7:36 PM on February 13 [7 favorites]
(check the comments to the podcast for the timestamps)
In any case:
(Al-Jazeera) France sanctions 28 Israeli settlers over West Bank violence - France said it would also seek sanctions at the European level. [...] On Monday, British Foreign Secretary David Cameron announced the sanctions on four Israeli nationals accused of attacking Palestinians in the occupied West Bank.
“Extremist Israeli settlers are threatening Palestinians, often at gunpoint, and forcing them off land that is rightfully theirs,” Cameron said.
This tracks with the ICC Prosecutor statement earlier that at most we can expect from the main allies of Israel is a coordinated effort against the illegal settlements. Which is something. But not Gaza.
(972) ‘Change in Israel will only happen when there are costs that force our eyes open’ - this is an interview with Yagil Levy, which I find interesting as earlier this week on Haaretz (analysis piece) Anger Is Rising in Wartime Israel About Which Israelis Must Go and Fight -
Like many other Israeli controversies, this one would have been set aside during wartime – Israel has far more pressing issues right now – if it weren't for a new bill being prepared for swift legislation in the Knesset. If passed, this bill will extend the period of compulsory service for young men to three years (it's currently 32 months), while the age at which former conscripts can be called up for the reserves will be 45 (instead of the current 40). And while most active reservists previously did 25 days of operational duty every three years, now they will be liable to do 40 days annually.
Many reservists have already spent four months in uniform since the war began – and by all accounts, the motivation to turn up for duty has been high following Oct. 7, and remains so. But the prospect of having to do a lot more reserve duty in the years to come, when tensions will likely remain much higher than before the war not just in Gaza but on the northern front and the West Bank too, has put the spotlight back on those who won't be spending long months on patrol.
So far, the Haredi leadership has tried to lower its profile on the matter. Its leaders have no intention of allowing their students to enlist – it would empty the yeshivas and end their control over the young men in their communities – but the politicians are savvy enough to know that there's no way they can win this battle in the court of public opinion.
However, while they can simply refuse to give interviews for a period, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who relies on them as crucial ruling coalition partners, is exposed. Or as one minister put it: "Netanyahu is trying to make a comeback in the polls, but his problem is not only that Israelis don't want him as prime minister after Oct. 7. Now they don't want his partners either, and they're dragging each other down."
Scoops like this (in Hebrew) is probably not helping, by Sulaiman Mawasdeh -
1/4 We published for the first time here 11: The Mossad, the Shin Bet and the IDF formulated a new outline for the release of hostages - which was rejected by Netanyahu.
Prime Minister Netanyahu rejected a new outline for the release of abductees drawn up by the three senior officials - the head of the Mossad Dedi Barnea, the head of the Shin Bet Ronan Bar, and Major General Nitzan Alon.
Feb 13, 2024 · 6:09 PM UTC
2/4 The outline came up several times in talks with the Prime Minister, and came up for the last time during a limited consultation call with the participation of Netanyahu, Galant, and the three professional officials (without the presence of Benny Gantz), hours before the seniors' trip to Cairo.
The new outline included changes in several parameters (which cannot be specified at this stage).
3/4 Netanyahu, to the dismay of the head of the Mossad, the head of the Shin Bet and the person in charge of the issue on behalf of the IDF, definitively rejected the presentation of the new outline at the Cairo summit in the same conversation, and ordered the team to travel anyway "to listen".
Three different sources confirmed the news.
4/4 A political source said that the problem was and remains "the unreasonable demands of Hamas to stop the war
After the plan was rejected, Major General Nitzan Alon, who is in charge of the abductee issue on behalf of the IDF, decided not to go to Cairo.
(Wired) Satellite Images Point to Indiscriminate Israeli Attacks on Gaza’s Health Care Facilities
posted by cendawanita at 7:36 PM on February 13 [7 favorites]
I will accept any other version of this interview from any other source translated into any language I can understand.
if an American site noted for being deeply redpilled and misogynistic published the only English language translation of an interview with, say, a S. Korean feminist organizer about the doxing/online harassment of female animators by angry, sensitive Korean men, you would deeply distrust said translation, right?
but okay - maybe you read the interview first then found out later that the site deliberately fictionalizes its accounts in order to suit an ideological bias. like any reasonable person you would then toss that baby out with the bath water since it water is, in all likelihood, spiked with some kind of contamination that is deliberately viral, right?
sometimes I wonder what it was like to have to engage the American chattering class in the prelude to and during the Iraq War. I imagine that had Americans listened to outside observers who faced less peer pressure and indoctrination than we did at the time that perhaps there could have been some other outcome
I really don't envy anyone living in Israel or who are enmeshed in pro-Zionist communities to have to exist in the dissonant space where it feels like people won't even consider your reasonable middle ground opinion. I don't envy it because there will come a day in some far off point in the future where you realize how that middleground wasn't reasonable at all, it was actually also deeply complicit in the perpetuation of horrendous war crimes. not as complicit, sure, but by god were US liberals a disgustingly complicit bunch and they should be reminded, constantly of their fuck up
in a just world, every single one of them would be held to account for what they did in support or didn't do in protest that led to more than half a million dead humans. in a just world, we would hold each and every person who has a social contract with their nation state to some standard of action when it comes to their complicity in inflicting mass, systemic suffering
posted by paimapi at 8:57 PM on February 13 [11 favorites]
if an American site noted for being deeply redpilled and misogynistic published the only English language translation of an interview with, say, a S. Korean feminist organizer about the doxing/online harassment of female animators by angry, sensitive Korean men, you would deeply distrust said translation, right?
but okay - maybe you read the interview first then found out later that the site deliberately fictionalizes its accounts in order to suit an ideological bias. like any reasonable person you would then toss that baby out with the bath water since it water is, in all likelihood, spiked with some kind of contamination that is deliberately viral, right?
sometimes I wonder what it was like to have to engage the American chattering class in the prelude to and during the Iraq War. I imagine that had Americans listened to outside observers who faced less peer pressure and indoctrination than we did at the time that perhaps there could have been some other outcome
I really don't envy anyone living in Israel or who are enmeshed in pro-Zionist communities to have to exist in the dissonant space where it feels like people won't even consider your reasonable middle ground opinion. I don't envy it because there will come a day in some far off point in the future where you realize how that middleground wasn't reasonable at all, it was actually also deeply complicit in the perpetuation of horrendous war crimes. not as complicit, sure, but by god were US liberals a disgustingly complicit bunch and they should be reminded, constantly of their fuck up
in a just world, every single one of them would be held to account for what they did in support or didn't do in protest that led to more than half a million dead humans. in a just world, we would hold each and every person who has a social contract with their nation state to some standard of action when it comes to their complicity in inflicting mass, systemic suffering
posted by paimapi at 8:57 PM on February 13 [11 favorites]
Extremely preliminary: Rumors are coming from Qatar that Hamas and Abbas agreed to a technocrat government and that Hamas agreed to join the PLO and accept the principle of a Palestinian state on 1967 borders.
I wasn't able to confirm the news yet
Extremely newsy (small n): While many in the Israeli mainstream media are spouting genocidal hate speech on a daily basis, pundit Gil Tamari, of Channel 13, was suspended following this remark:
"Netanyahu doesn't really have an incentive to free the abductees, he wants them all dead for his own reasons"
He was suspended even though he promptly apologized for his choice of words, and now he's facing some administrative procedure that might result in him and the network being fined.
Seems like telling the truth is now illegal in the State of Israel.
Extremely hilarious (I've laughed at a variation of this before but this is a fresh iteration in video form so this can be one of those talking point that Israelis keep repeating out of confidence no one who "matters" in the west knows Arabic, Arabs, Muslims, or reason, no matter how many times it's been corrected, like how Muslims and Jews don't pray in the same direction*): Extremely racist, extremely ignorant, extremely cringe. Or in one word: HASBARA )(TL;DR Palestine is a fake country because there's no P in Arabic. I know. I know.)
*Keeping Palestine in my main focus in these last few months made it critically apparent that Christians are just missing. Cultural western Christianity maybe like Santa, but the religious conflict of choice doesn't include them.
posted by cendawanita at 9:52 PM on February 13 [6 favorites]
I wasn't able to confirm the news yet
Extremely newsy (small n): While many in the Israeli mainstream media are spouting genocidal hate speech on a daily basis, pundit Gil Tamari, of Channel 13, was suspended following this remark:
"Netanyahu doesn't really have an incentive to free the abductees, he wants them all dead for his own reasons"
He was suspended even though he promptly apologized for his choice of words, and now he's facing some administrative procedure that might result in him and the network being fined.
Seems like telling the truth is now illegal in the State of Israel.
Extremely hilarious (I've laughed at a variation of this before but this is a fresh iteration in video form so this can be one of those talking point that Israelis keep repeating out of confidence no one who "matters" in the west knows Arabic, Arabs, Muslims, or reason, no matter how many times it's been corrected, like how Muslims and Jews don't pray in the same direction*): Extremely racist, extremely ignorant, extremely cringe. Or in one word: HASBARA )(TL;DR Palestine is a fake country because there's no P in Arabic. I know. I know.)
*Keeping Palestine in my main focus in these last few months made it critically apparent that Christians are just missing. Cultural western Christianity maybe like Santa, but the religious conflict of choice doesn't include them.
posted by cendawanita at 9:52 PM on February 13 [6 favorites]
*Keeping Palestine in my main focus in these last few months made it critically apparent that Christians are just missing.*
I don't know if religion is an altogether great lens to use? I usually view things in a concrete way, eg my criticism of Borell just being all talk, while Biden actually influences policy and changes conditions on the ground to improve conditions for Palestinians. I generally see things in terms of money - if you're serious about something, money is what makes a difference. I send about $2,000 per year to Ethiopia in support of their children development / education programs. This is what atheists complain about, that religious lobbies wield outsized influence - well it's a money thing, tithing, zakat, etc.
Top UNRWA donors in 2022
USA (majority Christian) - $343,937,718
Germany (majority Christian) - $202,054,285
EU (majority Christian) - $114,199,150
Sweden (majority Christian) - $60,969,987
Norway (majority Christian) - $34,180,677
Japan (majority Shinto) - $30,152,202
France (majority Christian) - $28,909,838
Saudi Arabia (majority Muslim) - $27,000,000
In addition, US also provides $600,000,000 per year to Palestine via USAID.
And lastly there's also direct funding of the PA.
"According to figures released by the PA, only 22 percent of the $530,000,000 received since the beginning of 2010 came from Arab donors. Palestinian leaders stated the Arab world was "continuing to ignore" repeated requests for help" Palestinian National Authority (Wikipedia)
I've heard Malaysia has pledged an amount early on but there's no news on whether any of it was delivered. The only news I can find, unfortunately, is the accounts of Aman Palestine being frozen.
posted by xdvesper at 1:26 AM on February 14 [2 favorites]
I don't know if religion is an altogether great lens to use? I usually view things in a concrete way, eg my criticism of Borell just being all talk, while Biden actually influences policy and changes conditions on the ground to improve conditions for Palestinians. I generally see things in terms of money - if you're serious about something, money is what makes a difference. I send about $2,000 per year to Ethiopia in support of their children development / education programs. This is what atheists complain about, that religious lobbies wield outsized influence - well it's a money thing, tithing, zakat, etc.
Top UNRWA donors in 2022
USA (majority Christian) - $343,937,718
Germany (majority Christian) - $202,054,285
EU (majority Christian) - $114,199,150
Sweden (majority Christian) - $60,969,987
Norway (majority Christian) - $34,180,677
Japan (majority Shinto) - $30,152,202
France (majority Christian) - $28,909,838
Saudi Arabia (majority Muslim) - $27,000,000
In addition, US also provides $600,000,000 per year to Palestine via USAID.
And lastly there's also direct funding of the PA.
"According to figures released by the PA, only 22 percent of the $530,000,000 received since the beginning of 2010 came from Arab donors. Palestinian leaders stated the Arab world was "continuing to ignore" repeated requests for help" Palestinian National Authority (Wikipedia)
I've heard Malaysia has pledged an amount early on but there's no news on whether any of it was delivered. The only news I can find, unfortunately, is the accounts of Aman Palestine being frozen.
posted by xdvesper at 1:26 AM on February 14 [2 favorites]
I don't know if religion is an altogether great lens to use?
I don't either. I'm commenting on Israeli hasbara.
posted by cendawanita at 1:52 AM on February 14 [4 favorites]
I don't either. I'm commenting on Israeli hasbara.
posted by cendawanita at 1:52 AM on February 14 [4 favorites]
Talking to colleagues today, I think perhaps we've focused too much on the concept of the "genocide denier". That someone would either accept that genocide was occurring and oppose it, or that they would deny it, or they would just be so clearly fascist that we could discount them.
A lot of the pushback I see is really "genocide excusal". Yeah maybe, there's genocide, they don't care enough to verify it one way or another, they don't argue the facts. It's just "what else do you expect", "wake up, it's normal, who cares", "what else can they do?", "it's unreasonable to expect that just because it's *genocide* that means we should do something". They know it's genocide, they just think being worked up about it is at best naive.
I'm yet to hear about a group doing genocide without claiming that actually it was necessary, they totally needed to do it, the people they genocide were going to do it to them first, they just won.
posted by Audreynachrome at 3:37 AM on February 14 [9 favorites]
A lot of the pushback I see is really "genocide excusal". Yeah maybe, there's genocide, they don't care enough to verify it one way or another, they don't argue the facts. It's just "what else do you expect", "wake up, it's normal, who cares", "what else can they do?", "it's unreasonable to expect that just because it's *genocide* that means we should do something". They know it's genocide, they just think being worked up about it is at best naive.
I'm yet to hear about a group doing genocide without claiming that actually it was necessary, they totally needed to do it, the people they genocide were going to do it to them first, they just won.
posted by Audreynachrome at 3:37 AM on February 14 [9 favorites]
I'd argue that excusing genocide is itself so extreme a position as to render the espouser so clearly fascist we can discount them.
posted by Dysk at 3:41 AM on February 14 [6 favorites]
posted by Dysk at 3:41 AM on February 14 [6 favorites]
I wish, but it's not enough for here, it's definitely not enough for government work.
posted by Audreynachrome at 3:42 AM on February 14 [3 favorites]
posted by Audreynachrome at 3:42 AM on February 14 [3 favorites]
I've heard Malaysia has pledged an amount early on but there's no news on whether any of it was delivered.
I read 20 tonnes of stuff. Oddly, nothing much in the news other then Malaysia still recognizing Hamas and banning Israeli shipping in their ports. I get that, people have to make a stand, stick to their beliefs.
Yemen’s Houthi rebels fire missiles at ship bound for Iran, their main supporter.
posted by clavdivs at 3:46 AM on February 14 [1 favorite]
I read 20 tonnes of stuff. Oddly, nothing much in the news other then Malaysia still recognizing Hamas and banning Israeli shipping in their ports. I get that, people have to make a stand, stick to their beliefs.
Yemen’s Houthi rebels fire missiles at ship bound for Iran, their main supporter.
posted by clavdivs at 3:46 AM on February 14 [1 favorite]
while Biden actually influences policy and changes conditions on the ground to improve conditions for Palestinians.
LOL, what a fucking crock, we're on 18 weeks of this 12th-dimensional chess bullshit.
Biden Is Mad at Netanyahu? Spare Me.
LOL, what a fucking crock, we're on 18 weeks of this 12th-dimensional chess bullshit.
Biden Is Mad at Netanyahu? Spare Me.
The average reader who has never read a single story about Gaza before this Washington Post report could only assume that some big shift in the American approach to Israel’s assault on Gaza is on the way.posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 5:24 AM on February 14 [25 favorites]
The average reader who has been following Gaza coverage for the past few months, however, would recognize what has become one of the more thuddingly predictable and infuriating genres to emerge post–October 7: the “Biden is really mad at Netanyahu behind the scenes” story. There’s a problem with these pieces: They have virtually nothing to do with how Biden has actually handled the war.
Leading outlets have been running these kinds of reports over and over again since Israel’s bombardment began.
- On November 9, just over one month into the war, ABC News wrote that there was “growing daylight” between Biden and Netanyahu.
- On November 15, NBC News said that “Biden administration officials are increasingly at odds with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government.”
- On November 16, The Guardian reported that “behind the scenes the tensions are escalating.”
- On December 14, CNN described “unprecedented tensions” over the war.
- On December 18, The Hill wrote that the White House was “growing increasingly critical.”
- On December 21, The Washington Post wrote that Biden and Netanyahu “disagree with growing vehemence” about postwar planning.
- On December 31, The New York Times reported that things had “grown increasingly fraught” between the two countries.
- On January 14, Axios reported that Biden was “becoming increasingly frustrated” with Netanyahu.
- On January 17, NBC News referred to “the Biden administration’s growing frustrations.”
- On January 19, NPR said that “a rift is deepening” and the AP wrote that “the leaders’ relationship has increasingly shown signs of strain.”
- On January 24, The Hill wrote that the “relationship…is showing new signs of strain.”
- On February 8, the Times reported that “relations between the Biden administration and Mr. Netanyahu have become increasingly fraught.”
[. . .] In the real world, Israel’s slaughter has continued unabated. On November 9, when ABC News swore that there was “growing daylight” between Biden and Netanyahu, at least 10,812 people had been killed in Gaza. By February 8, when the Times asserted that things had become “increasingly fraught” between Biden and Netanyahu, at least 27,840 people had been killed in Gaza. In the real world, Biden and his legislative partners have continued to arm Israel; the Democratic leadership in the Senate actually brought people in on Super Bowl Sunday to take a vote on a bill that would, along with rearming Ukraine, send Israel another $14.1 billion for what is euphemistically dubbed “security assistance.” In the real world, Biden has blocked moves for a permanent cease-fire at the United Nations and refuses to put any public pressure on Israel to help implement one. The Times reported on Friday that in a meeting specifically designed to ease tensions between the White House and the Arab American community in Michigan, Biden aides “declined to say whether they had advised or would advise the president to call for a cease-fire, which attendees asked for.” (“You’re not going to get that answer,” one official said.)
He's going to be so mad that the flour shipment got blocked.
posted by cendawanita at 5:44 AM on February 14 [7 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 5:44 AM on February 14 [7 favorites]
We are at DEFCON MALARKEY, repeat DEFCON MALARKEY.
Prepare for simultaneous deployment of weak-kneed empty threats and massive shipments of genocide assistance.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 6:05 AM on February 14 [10 favorites]
Prepare for simultaneous deployment of weak-kneed empty threats and massive shipments of genocide assistance.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 6:05 AM on February 14 [10 favorites]
I'm yet to hear about a group doing genocide without claiming that actually it was necessary, they totally needed to do it, the people they genocide were going to do it to them first, they just won.
I am reminded of Matt Christman's fabled rant about alt-right militants:
And that's what these guys are, these guys that marched in Charlottesville, these are the people who are aware of the unspoken premise of this sort of zombie neoliberalism that we're living in, which is that we're coming to a point where there's gonna be ecological catastrophe, and that it's gonna require either massive redistribution of the ill-gotten gains of the first world, or genocide.
And these are the first people who have basically said, "Well if that's the choice, then I choose genocide", and they're getting everyone else ready, intellectually and emotionally, for why that's gonna be okay when it happens, why they're not really people. When we're putting all this money into more fucking walls and drones and bombs and guns to keep them away, so that we can watch them die with clear consciences, it's because we've been loaded with the ideology that these guys are now starting to express publicly.
Which is echoed by those excusing Israel's ongoing genocide with "Hamas would've done it first if they could've," and claiming that all means are justified to remove any potential threat therein. And by those here in America demanding that no more money go to Ukraine because "AMERICA FIRST." And by razor-wire installations in Texas and STOP THE BOATS billboards in the UK and Great Replacement conspiracy theories all over the globe.
Few would argue that if someone poses an active threat to your life and health, if they are engaging in violence against you, you have the right to proportional self-defense. But that advances quickly to far more extreme ideas -- that if my way of life is threatened, my position of privilege is threatened, my comfort level or my unquestioned cultural dominance or my possessions are threatened, I am entitled to lash out and my response is justified.
And I wish I knew how the world could be rid of that notion.
posted by delfin at 6:10 AM on February 14 [21 favorites]
I am reminded of Matt Christman's fabled rant about alt-right militants:
And that's what these guys are, these guys that marched in Charlottesville, these are the people who are aware of the unspoken premise of this sort of zombie neoliberalism that we're living in, which is that we're coming to a point where there's gonna be ecological catastrophe, and that it's gonna require either massive redistribution of the ill-gotten gains of the first world, or genocide.
And these are the first people who have basically said, "Well if that's the choice, then I choose genocide", and they're getting everyone else ready, intellectually and emotionally, for why that's gonna be okay when it happens, why they're not really people. When we're putting all this money into more fucking walls and drones and bombs and guns to keep them away, so that we can watch them die with clear consciences, it's because we've been loaded with the ideology that these guys are now starting to express publicly.
Which is echoed by those excusing Israel's ongoing genocide with "Hamas would've done it first if they could've," and claiming that all means are justified to remove any potential threat therein. And by those here in America demanding that no more money go to Ukraine because "AMERICA FIRST." And by razor-wire installations in Texas and STOP THE BOATS billboards in the UK and Great Replacement conspiracy theories all over the globe.
Few would argue that if someone poses an active threat to your life and health, if they are engaging in violence against you, you have the right to proportional self-defense. But that advances quickly to far more extreme ideas -- that if my way of life is threatened, my position of privilege is threatened, my comfort level or my unquestioned cultural dominance or my possessions are threatened, I am entitled to lash out and my response is justified.
And I wish I knew how the world could be rid of that notion.
posted by delfin at 6:10 AM on February 14 [21 favorites]
Makes sense but there's also a long history of the US being fine with dead Palestinians being dead from US bombs and Israel killing and displacing Palestinians for their own reasons (1948 was way worse than today). You don't need the spectre of ecological catastrophe to enable genocide, you just need politics.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 9:24 AM on February 14 [4 favorites]
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 9:24 AM on February 14 [4 favorites]
I really can't report on what Malaysia is doing beyond the obvious (mainly because we're like Indonesia in that we don't have diplomatic relations to begin with but that's never stopped elite cooperation with Israeli industrial-military complex plus other parts of society but otoh we never seriously got close to normalisation because we don't have an incoming president who isn't a probable war criminal (probably) who was working towards that - on account of the war crimes) but we somehow managed to put the fear of God (or the police*) into Ian Miles Cheong because if there's something we truly are it's being insanely online so locals who aren't plugged into American internet politics finally noticed the guy and his spicy Zionist takes.
So now he's, as according to NST, someone who loves Malaysia, is not Pro-Israel
Note: at none of these points was there an official invitation to have tea at the local station (iykwim) had been made.
However it's led to some incredible (buried in the reply) tweets (linked to my fedi to save you all a hit):
Regarding the topic, I love all people except for vile degenerates and pray for peace in Palestine and wish Israel would stop bombing them.
Like any other reasonable person, I do not believe more violence is the solution to ending this conflict.
I’ve said this before, numerous times, quite contrary to the insane claims being made about what I think from people who will only accept nothing less than a simple, dumbed down look at the world.
So uh, we got him?
*ACAB tho
Yes, ICYMI, friend of Elon comes from my side of the world. Now he just sounds like a Singaporean.
Speaking of Singapore, oh no a tiny mass gathering with some watermelons occured quick summon the cops. I didn't pay it any mind (it's Singapore - what am I supposed to be? Surprised?), but since we're bringing up Southeast Asia.
posted by cendawanita at 9:53 AM on February 14 [7 favorites]
So now he's, as according to NST, someone who loves Malaysia, is not Pro-Israel
Note: at none of these points was there an official invitation to have tea at the local station (iykwim) had been made.
However it's led to some incredible (buried in the reply) tweets (linked to my fedi to save you all a hit):
Regarding the topic, I love all people except for vile degenerates and pray for peace in Palestine and wish Israel would stop bombing them.
Like any other reasonable person, I do not believe more violence is the solution to ending this conflict.
I’ve said this before, numerous times, quite contrary to the insane claims being made about what I think from people who will only accept nothing less than a simple, dumbed down look at the world.
So uh, we got him?
*ACAB tho
Yes, ICYMI, friend of Elon comes from my side of the world. Now he just sounds like a Singaporean.
Speaking of Singapore, oh no a tiny mass gathering with some watermelons occured quick summon the cops. I didn't pay it any mind (it's Singapore - what am I supposed to be? Surprised?), but since we're bringing up Southeast Asia.
posted by cendawanita at 9:53 AM on February 14 [7 favorites]
US won’t punish Israel for Rafah op that doesn’t protect civilians (Politico)
Three U.S. officials, granted anonymity to detail internal discussions, told NatSec Daily no reprimand plans are in the works, meaning Israeli forces could enter the city and harm civilians without facing American consequences. More than half of the enclave’s 2.3 million population has fled to Rafah, putting them in clear danger whenever the operation moves beyond the bombing phase.posted by kmt at 12:09 PM on February 14 [1 favorite]
"Haaretz has published (in Hebrew, not English) an incomprehensibly vile article in the style of a lifestyle cooking feature, about Israel's soldiers finding and cooking with ingredients in the kitchens of Gazans who had to flee their homes and are now starving."
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 12:35 PM on February 14 [1 favorite]
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 12:35 PM on February 14 [1 favorite]
Makes sense but there's also a long history of the US being fine with dead Palestinians being dead from US bombs and Israel killing and displacing Palestinians for their own reasons (1948 was way worse than today). You don't need the spectre of ecological catastrophe to enable genocide, you just need politics.
In terms of the direct human cost, yes, the United States has always been happy to kill any inconvenient people, or close its eyes while someone else kills them.
But now the United States has to cool people out when they are literally watching the genocide live on social media, when people literally have Palestinian colleagues and their normal tweets are about, like, geology research and now it's "fifteen of my family members are dead and my husband is missing". And when they're seeing the IDF making fan videos of them torturing Palestinians.
It's not that no one in the US has ever encountered, like, media images of evil before, but I can tell you from my own experience that until I think the Arab Spring protests I had never seen video of an ordinary person actually dying, going from alive and looking at the camera to dead and sightless, up close and personal, and until this war, I had never seen video of real human bodies just torn apart by bombs. Quantity becomes a change in kind. The images that came out of Auschwitz and Vietnam changed the politics of those conflicts because those were the type of image that most people had not seen in that intensity or quantity. Some of these images existed of other recent conflicts, but the quantity and pervasiveness is new.
So the trick is going to get people to be able to see that stuff and to see much worse and not to care, or to feel so helpless and sad that they turn it off. Right now in the United States for most non-Arab people it might be that you have started following some Palestinians on social media because of the news, or you happened to have a friend who has connections in Palestine, but even though it's monstrous and horrible it's still far away.
The task of the US government is going to be to get people to be indifferent or beat down as violence intensifies locally. You can't have ordinary people thinking that just because they hate and are morally repulsed by some state action their opinion counts, that just because they march and call and get arrested something is going to change. You can't have that at the best of times, and you definitely can't have it when you know that your country is going to be full of climate refugees and shattered infrastructure and probably internment camps of one kind or another in ten or twenty years.
The job of a powerful state is to break its citizens so that they either fight for the state or submit to the state. What would the United States be if, just because it was repulsive and immoral to send hellfire missiles somewhere, we stopped sending them? Reasons of state always have to beat morality and compassion and decency or there is no state, and there must always be a state.
posted by Frowner at 12:40 PM on February 14 [15 favorites]
In terms of the direct human cost, yes, the United States has always been happy to kill any inconvenient people, or close its eyes while someone else kills them.
But now the United States has to cool people out when they are literally watching the genocide live on social media, when people literally have Palestinian colleagues and their normal tweets are about, like, geology research and now it's "fifteen of my family members are dead and my husband is missing". And when they're seeing the IDF making fan videos of them torturing Palestinians.
It's not that no one in the US has ever encountered, like, media images of evil before, but I can tell you from my own experience that until I think the Arab Spring protests I had never seen video of an ordinary person actually dying, going from alive and looking at the camera to dead and sightless, up close and personal, and until this war, I had never seen video of real human bodies just torn apart by bombs. Quantity becomes a change in kind. The images that came out of Auschwitz and Vietnam changed the politics of those conflicts because those were the type of image that most people had not seen in that intensity or quantity. Some of these images existed of other recent conflicts, but the quantity and pervasiveness is new.
So the trick is going to get people to be able to see that stuff and to see much worse and not to care, or to feel so helpless and sad that they turn it off. Right now in the United States for most non-Arab people it might be that you have started following some Palestinians on social media because of the news, or you happened to have a friend who has connections in Palestine, but even though it's monstrous and horrible it's still far away.
The task of the US government is going to be to get people to be indifferent or beat down as violence intensifies locally. You can't have ordinary people thinking that just because they hate and are morally repulsed by some state action their opinion counts, that just because they march and call and get arrested something is going to change. You can't have that at the best of times, and you definitely can't have it when you know that your country is going to be full of climate refugees and shattered infrastructure and probably internment camps of one kind or another in ten or twenty years.
The job of a powerful state is to break its citizens so that they either fight for the state or submit to the state. What would the United States be if, just because it was repulsive and immoral to send hellfire missiles somewhere, we stopped sending them? Reasons of state always have to beat morality and compassion and decency or there is no state, and there must always be a state.
posted by Frowner at 12:40 PM on February 14 [15 favorites]
No one gives a shit about the Palestinians. Sure the youths do, but they don't vote enough. We saw kids getting shot in the intifadas, it moved the needle a bit but videos of Palestinian children getting massacred isn't going to cause widespread or important changes in American public opinion. The majority of Dems are in favor Biden's Israel policy. If you're terminally online you're going to encounter these videos, but the default position among so many is 'we stand with Israel'.
Also voters don't care about foreign policy.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 12:57 PM on February 14
Also voters don't care about foreign policy.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 12:57 PM on February 14
It's not that no one in the US has ever encountered, like, media images of evil before, but I can tell you from my own experience that until I think the Arab Spring protests I had never seen video of an ordinary person actually dying, going from alive and looking at the camera to dead and sightless, up close and personal, and until this war, I had never seen video of real human bodies just torn apart by bombs.
I'm in no way doubting you, but that really surprises me given how prevalent those images have been my whole life. Some of the first graphic war imagery I can remember seeing were the photos of the bombing of the marine barracks in Beirut in the early 1980s, along with reprints of Vietnam War imagery. I can recall seeing video of fighting in documentaries and, to a less graphic extent, on the news back then, too.
But it is different now, when so much of the imagery is not filtered through the news media, which always censored and selected what was shown. Now you can browse Reddit or wherever and see all the war footage you want, almost in real time, and sometimes posted by and commented on the participants themselves.
posted by Dip Flash at 2:06 PM on February 14
I'm in no way doubting you, but that really surprises me given how prevalent those images have been my whole life. Some of the first graphic war imagery I can remember seeing were the photos of the bombing of the marine barracks in Beirut in the early 1980s, along with reprints of Vietnam War imagery. I can recall seeing video of fighting in documentaries and, to a less graphic extent, on the news back then, too.
But it is different now, when so much of the imagery is not filtered through the news media, which always censored and selected what was shown. Now you can browse Reddit or wherever and see all the war footage you want, almost in real time, and sometimes posted by and commented on the participants themselves.
posted by Dip Flash at 2:06 PM on February 14
My brain doesn't really parse-to-summarise/analyse disparate sources of war news well but I just want to note Israel's agitation at south Lebanon is bearing fruit in that there has now been a fresh barrage of missiles attributed to Hezbollah that landed well within Israel. In any case if anyone with better skills to summarise might want to keep an eye on that.
posted by cendawanita at 7:38 PM on February 14 [2 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 7:38 PM on February 14 [2 favorites]
cendawanita: Israel has been heavily bombing South Lebanon for at least the last ~18 hours, too. (various items on this AJ page)
posted by adrienneleigh at 9:01 PM on February 14 [2 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 9:01 PM on February 14 [2 favorites]
It's just "what else do you expect", "wake up, it's normal, who cares", "what else can they do?", "it's unreasonable to expect that just because it's *genocide* that means we should do something".
Jewish Comedian ROASTS Zionists For Being 'Nationalist Babies' (Katie Halper, YouTube/Piped, 17m57s)
posted by flabdablet at 11:32 PM on February 14 [2 favorites]
Jewish Comedian ROASTS Zionists For Being 'Nationalist Babies' (Katie Halper, YouTube/Piped, 17m57s)
posted by flabdablet at 11:32 PM on February 14 [2 favorites]
No one gives a shit about the Palestinians. Sure the youths do, but they don't vote enough.
In Austin, there are almost weekly protests, turning out thousands of people. The group seems very diverse age-wise to me. I don't think we can say this is limited to the youth or to people who are terminally online when I see entire families spending their weekend traveling to these protests.
That being said, Texas is gerrymandered in such a way that even if all of these people vote, it won't be noticeable in the numbers.
posted by tofu_crouton at 5:59 AM on February 15 [6 favorites]
In Austin, there are almost weekly protests, turning out thousands of people. The group seems very diverse age-wise to me. I don't think we can say this is limited to the youth or to people who are terminally online when I see entire families spending their weekend traveling to these protests.
That being said, Texas is gerrymandered in such a way that even if all of these people vote, it won't be noticeable in the numbers.
posted by tofu_crouton at 5:59 AM on February 15 [6 favorites]
When traveling last weekend in central Pennsylvania, I saw two lonely people on the main drag in a college town. They had "Honk for Peace" and "Free Palestine" signs, and were sitting by the roadside hoping for recognition.
I gave them a nod and a thumbs-up, as I was not in a car, but I heard no honking while I was in the neighborhood.
posted by delfin at 6:33 AM on February 15
I gave them a nod and a thumbs-up, as I was not in a car, but I heard no honking while I was in the neighborhood.
posted by delfin at 6:33 AM on February 15
When traveling last weekend in central Pennsylvania, I saw two lonely people on the main drag in a college town. They had "Honk for Peace" and "Free Palestine" signs, and were sitting by the roadside hoping for recognition.
Locally, there have been some larger protests that are pretty diverse in terms of age, but there's also the lone boomer guy who sometimes stands at an intersection with a set of signs along the lines of "Zionists = Nazis" and so on; the effect is more anti-Israel than pro-Palestinian. He's out there in all weather, though, so you have to admire the commitment.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:42 AM on February 15
Locally, there have been some larger protests that are pretty diverse in terms of age, but there's also the lone boomer guy who sometimes stands at an intersection with a set of signs along the lines of "Zionists = Nazis" and so on; the effect is more anti-Israel than pro-Palestinian. He's out there in all weather, though, so you have to admire the commitment.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:42 AM on February 15
I'm in no way doubting you, but that really surprises me given how prevalent those images have been my whole life. Some of the first graphic war imagery I can remember seeing were the photos of the bombing of the marine barracks in Beirut in the early 1980s, along with reprints of Vietnam War imagery. I can recall seeing video of fighting in documentaries and, to a less graphic extent, on the news back then, too.
For the sake of clarifying what I see as a difference: Yes, I saw those things too, and film that was shot when the concentration camps were liberated, but what I didn't see was, eg, a camera on the face of a woman as she died in the street, or lots of close up footage of charred corpse fragments. The intimacy and immediacy of these videos makes them really different from even something very shocking and horrible like the execution of Nguyễn Văn Lém. (And again, I want to say that images like that had political and social impact because they were different from what had gone before - it's a series of inflections, not just "things were X before 2012".)
In this country, amateur video on social media has been really politically important and mobilizing. It makes people feel connected - during the George Floyd protests, people were marching in places where no one ever marched, and it was because the videos of police abuse and protest made it seem like they could. I've been in protests and in movement spaces (granted, not as a big organizer, just a participant) off and on since the nineties and social media has changed things a lot.
In my lifetime, I've never seen so many mass protests in so short a time over an international issue as the ones about Palestine. There's no US troops in Palestine, "our boys" aren't getting killed over there. Very few Americans have been to Palestine. It is unusual, to say the least, for Americans to be out there on the street in numbers for something happening on the other side of the world to people who are mostly not Americans.
There are a lot of reasons for that, but social media is a huge factor. My perception, on the fringes of the left, is that we've had ten years of increasing awareness about police violence, Cop City, the way that the IDF is connected to US policing, the way that the George Floyd protests were repressed. There has been a change in sensibility, people becoming more disaffected, pessimistic and afraid. Maybe your average protester couldn't articulate all of this, but your average protester doesn't need to be able to give a speech for there to be a change in the background ways that people understand the world. And for every person who is motivated enough to get out in the street, there must be ten who would have gone if they heard about it, would have gone but they had to work, wish they could have gone or are just more or less in sympathy. When you see a massive protest, you know there are a lot more people at home who agree.
That is why putting down the protests is so important to the state. Again, in what seems lately to be an unimaginably long lifetime of this stuff, what I've seen is that the state smashes resistance. Trivial little bullshit resistance, even. That's why union campaigns that seem like no-brainer basic justice issues get smashed, why the cops are so aggressive with even minor dissent, etc. If you let people start winning on moral issues, the state will fall apart.
There's always a proximate reason, like "oh, this funder doesn't like it", but ultimately all the funders and politicians etc etc etc understand full well that their power depends on suppressing people and suppressing fairly basic moral critique. You have to be a moral idiot, frankly, to think that police killings and bombing civilians into meat are somehow acceptable, but police killings and bombing civilians are wonderfully convenient, far too useful to power to give up. Which is why it's important to normalize really horrifying violence or else to reduce people to despair so they won't protest.
posted by Frowner at 6:43 AM on February 15 [10 favorites]
For the sake of clarifying what I see as a difference: Yes, I saw those things too, and film that was shot when the concentration camps were liberated, but what I didn't see was, eg, a camera on the face of a woman as she died in the street, or lots of close up footage of charred corpse fragments. The intimacy and immediacy of these videos makes them really different from even something very shocking and horrible like the execution of Nguyễn Văn Lém. (And again, I want to say that images like that had political and social impact because they were different from what had gone before - it's a series of inflections, not just "things were X before 2012".)
In this country, amateur video on social media has been really politically important and mobilizing. It makes people feel connected - during the George Floyd protests, people were marching in places where no one ever marched, and it was because the videos of police abuse and protest made it seem like they could. I've been in protests and in movement spaces (granted, not as a big organizer, just a participant) off and on since the nineties and social media has changed things a lot.
In my lifetime, I've never seen so many mass protests in so short a time over an international issue as the ones about Palestine. There's no US troops in Palestine, "our boys" aren't getting killed over there. Very few Americans have been to Palestine. It is unusual, to say the least, for Americans to be out there on the street in numbers for something happening on the other side of the world to people who are mostly not Americans.
There are a lot of reasons for that, but social media is a huge factor. My perception, on the fringes of the left, is that we've had ten years of increasing awareness about police violence, Cop City, the way that the IDF is connected to US policing, the way that the George Floyd protests were repressed. There has been a change in sensibility, people becoming more disaffected, pessimistic and afraid. Maybe your average protester couldn't articulate all of this, but your average protester doesn't need to be able to give a speech for there to be a change in the background ways that people understand the world. And for every person who is motivated enough to get out in the street, there must be ten who would have gone if they heard about it, would have gone but they had to work, wish they could have gone or are just more or less in sympathy. When you see a massive protest, you know there are a lot more people at home who agree.
That is why putting down the protests is so important to the state. Again, in what seems lately to be an unimaginably long lifetime of this stuff, what I've seen is that the state smashes resistance. Trivial little bullshit resistance, even. That's why union campaigns that seem like no-brainer basic justice issues get smashed, why the cops are so aggressive with even minor dissent, etc. If you let people start winning on moral issues, the state will fall apart.
There's always a proximate reason, like "oh, this funder doesn't like it", but ultimately all the funders and politicians etc etc etc understand full well that their power depends on suppressing people and suppressing fairly basic moral critique. You have to be a moral idiot, frankly, to think that police killings and bombing civilians into meat are somehow acceptable, but police killings and bombing civilians are wonderfully convenient, far too useful to power to give up. Which is why it's important to normalize really horrifying violence or else to reduce people to despair so they won't protest.
posted by Frowner at 6:43 AM on February 15 [10 favorites]
Locally, there have been some larger protests that are pretty diverse in terms of age, but there's also the lone boomer guy who sometimes stands at an intersection with a set of signs along the lines of "Zionists = Nazis" and so on; the effect is more anti-Israel than pro-Palestinian. He's out there in all weather, though, so you have to admire the commitment.
I have it on good authority that I do not, under any circumstances, "gotta hand it to them."
More seriously, I do find it disquieting in a horseshoe kind of way that some of the loudest voices I hear criticizing America's unqualified support for Israel are hardcore Trumpoids. It's for completely different reasons -- not that they see anything wrong with what Israel is doing or wish anything good upon the Gazans, but because they want all outgoing foreign aid to anywhere shut down and redirected to more razor wire and BUILDING THAT WALL.
The enemy of my enemy is often still my enemy.
posted by delfin at 6:53 AM on February 15
I have it on good authority that I do not, under any circumstances, "gotta hand it to them."
More seriously, I do find it disquieting in a horseshoe kind of way that some of the loudest voices I hear criticizing America's unqualified support for Israel are hardcore Trumpoids. It's for completely different reasons -- not that they see anything wrong with what Israel is doing or wish anything good upon the Gazans, but because they want all outgoing foreign aid to anywhere shut down and redirected to more razor wire and BUILDING THAT WALL.
The enemy of my enemy is often still my enemy.
posted by delfin at 6:53 AM on February 15
US Gives Green Light to Israel’s Atrocities in Rafah | #NovaraLIVE (Novara Media, Piped/YouTube, 58m55s)
posted by flabdablet at 10:04 AM on February 15 [1 favorite]
posted by flabdablet at 10:04 AM on February 15 [1 favorite]
The IDF sent dogs into Rasser Hospital
It seems unlikely that everyone still alive would have been evacuated beforehand.
.
posted by CPAnarchist at 11:45 AM on February 15 [5 favorites]
It seems unlikely that everyone still alive would have been evacuated beforehand.
.
posted by CPAnarchist at 11:45 AM on February 15 [5 favorites]
Former Mossad official: Children in Gaza over the age of 4 deserve to be starved (MondoWeiss)
“In Gaza, everyone is involved. Everyone voted Hamas. Anyone over the age of four is a Hamas supporter. And our goal at the moment, and this is in continuation of what you said, is to turn them from Hamas supporters to Hamas dislikers.”posted by adrienneleigh at 3:39 PM on February 15 [9 favorites]
Rafah images show huge blast craters close to camp.
Gaza-born physician residing in San Francisco addresses Secretary of State Antony Blinken:
I have worked extensively in global health and wrote a series of research papers in 2009 on what we thought then was a Palestinian health crisis. We could never, though, have imagined this – the complete destruction of Gaza’s health care system is unprecedented.
Even the dead among my family were not spared. Satellite images show that Israeli bulldozers and tanks desecrated the graveyards where my grandparents and great grandparents were resting. I hope to bury their remains again one day.
What do you wish to be your legacy, Secretary Blinken? You cannot say you didn’t know. You cannot say that you did not knowingly and materially support these deaths, which a US federal court and the International Court of Justice have both determined plausibly constitute genocide.
Rap song calling for death of Dua Lipa, Bella Hadid and Mia Khalifa ‘tops charts in Israel’ - ‘Every dog will get what’s coming to them’ - is part of the lyrics.
Palestinians are being priced out of safety in Gaza.
Judd Legum & Tesnim Zekeria dive into the proposed $14 billion US military aid package to Israel.
Primary challenger bankrolled by AIPAC accuses Jamaal Bowman of taking money from Hamas.
Chinese dissident artist Ai Weiwei says censorship in the West is "more concealed" and poses a greater threat after an exhibition of his work was cancelled after he made remarks about the Israel-Hamas war in Mandarin. “Unlike traditional authoritarian regimes that directly target individual speech, censorship in the West manifests itself more subtly within the framework of so-called democratic politics and the broader concept of so-called freedom of speech. Criticism and dissenting thoughts that diverge from the established values and corporate interests are often subjected to censorship to varying degrees.”
Also a note: Nitter no longer works.
posted by toastyk at 8:45 AM on February 16 [16 favorites]
Gaza-born physician residing in San Francisco addresses Secretary of State Antony Blinken:
I have worked extensively in global health and wrote a series of research papers in 2009 on what we thought then was a Palestinian health crisis. We could never, though, have imagined this – the complete destruction of Gaza’s health care system is unprecedented.
Even the dead among my family were not spared. Satellite images show that Israeli bulldozers and tanks desecrated the graveyards where my grandparents and great grandparents were resting. I hope to bury their remains again one day.
What do you wish to be your legacy, Secretary Blinken? You cannot say you didn’t know. You cannot say that you did not knowingly and materially support these deaths, which a US federal court and the International Court of Justice have both determined plausibly constitute genocide.
Rap song calling for death of Dua Lipa, Bella Hadid and Mia Khalifa ‘tops charts in Israel’ - ‘Every dog will get what’s coming to them’ - is part of the lyrics.
Palestinians are being priced out of safety in Gaza.
Judd Legum & Tesnim Zekeria dive into the proposed $14 billion US military aid package to Israel.
Primary challenger bankrolled by AIPAC accuses Jamaal Bowman of taking money from Hamas.
Chinese dissident artist Ai Weiwei says censorship in the West is "more concealed" and poses a greater threat after an exhibition of his work was cancelled after he made remarks about the Israel-Hamas war in Mandarin. “Unlike traditional authoritarian regimes that directly target individual speech, censorship in the West manifests itself more subtly within the framework of so-called democratic politics and the broader concept of so-called freedom of speech. Criticism and dissenting thoughts that diverge from the established values and corporate interests are often subjected to censorship to varying degrees.”
Also a note: Nitter no longer works.
posted by toastyk at 8:45 AM on February 16 [16 favorites]
I've been seeing more gofundmes for people trying to pay to get out - people trying to raise forty or fifty thousand dollars to get themselves, a spouse, their parents and a couple of kids out.
Before the war, travel was usually only permitted for medical treatment, education, or employment, while a small minority who could afford to would also pay high fees in order to leave for leisure. The cost of crossing the border alone was around $50, and travel agencies often charged several hundreds of dollars to expedite the process.
This was what was going on before the genocide - people weren't allowed out then either. In the United States, we used to criticize communist regimes for refusing to let people leave, but when it was Israel, we've been cool with it.
posted by Frowner at 12:52 PM on February 16 [8 favorites]
Before the war, travel was usually only permitted for medical treatment, education, or employment, while a small minority who could afford to would also pay high fees in order to leave for leisure. The cost of crossing the border alone was around $50, and travel agencies often charged several hundreds of dollars to expedite the process.
This was what was going on before the genocide - people weren't allowed out then either. In the United States, we used to criticize communist regimes for refusing to let people leave, but when it was Israel, we've been cool with it.
posted by Frowner at 12:52 PM on February 16 [8 favorites]
clavdivs, as driveby comments go I've seen worse but that one is a stinker
what about the substance of the comment. is it fair to say censorship is more concealed in the west in this context, or perhaps I should consult Claudine Gay.. oh wait, not technically censorship and she probably had it coming anyway
wtf dude
posted by elkevelvet at 1:06 PM on February 16 [6 favorites]
what about the substance of the comment. is it fair to say censorship is more concealed in the west in this context, or perhaps I should consult Claudine Gay.. oh wait, not technically censorship and she probably had it coming anyway
wtf dude
posted by elkevelvet at 1:06 PM on February 16 [6 favorites]
Mod note: One comment deleted. Lets not make a derail a bout Ai Weiwei. Also, cursing here is fine, but cursing at someone is not.
posted by loup (staff) at 1:15 PM on February 16
posted by loup (staff) at 1:15 PM on February 16
Anthony Albanese, Christopher Luxon and Justin Trudeau hold 'grave' concerns for Israel military operation in Rafah
Labor government minister Ed Husic told the ABC on Thursday morning...
..."One in 10 of the children that have died, didn't make their first birthday. These statistics, these are not numbers, these are people, people whose futures have been ended, and there are life and death decisions that are potentially being made by the Israeli government in an area where people are vulnerable. I just cannot see how you do a credible plan to protect civilians undertaking military action in that area where civilians are crammed in in that way."
Also: Egypt is building a wall. Construction along Egypt-Gaza border appears to show Cairo building wall ahead of Israeli offensive, satellite images show
Egypt is levelling land and building a wall near its border with Gaza ahead of a planned Israeli offensive on Rafah, satellite images analysed by the Associated Press have shown...
...The Wall Street Journal, quoting anonymous Egyptian officials, described "an eight-square-mile (20-square-kilometer) walled enclosure" being built in the area that could accommodate more than 100,000 people.
posted by Audreynachrome at 2:42 AM on February 17 [7 favorites]
Opinion: I’m an American doctor who went to Gaza. What I saw wasn’t war — it was annihilation (LA Times)
On one occasion, a handful of children, all about ages 5 to 8, were carried to the emergency room by their parents. All had single sniper shots to the head. These families were returning to their homes in Khan Yunis, about 2.5 miles away from the hospital, after Israeli tanks had withdrawn. But the snipers apparently stayed behind. None of these children survived.posted by kmt at 11:59 AM on February 17 [12 favorites]
And a quick lap around social media has people claiming that the doctor is lying due to their prejudice and anti-Semitism and hate, that the doctor is lying because professional snipers always aim for center-of-mass rather than the head, that the doctor even being there in the first place demonstrates their allegiance to Hamas because all Gaza hospitals are well known to have Hamas tunnels and HQs underneath, that the doctor's wild accusations without tangible photographic and video evidence demonstrates their prejudice and anti-Semitism and hate, that surely atrocities of this nature (which pale beside the horrible atrocities of 10/7) would have journalists nearby recording them as they happened, that the huge death rate among embedded journalists in Gaza demonstrates how many Hamas members were disguising themselves as journalists, and that suggesting that the IDF has been targeting journalists specifically to suppress evidence of their own actions is a lie that displays one's prejudice and anti-Semitism and hate.
When two tribes go to war...
posted by delfin at 7:55 AM on February 18 [3 favorites]
When two tribes go to war...
posted by delfin at 7:55 AM on February 18 [3 favorites]
🧵A news piece that aired on Israeli Channel 14 yesterday reveals that Israel is vigorously working not just on a security zone around the whole of Gaza Strip, but also on a completely leveled buffer zone south of Gaza City, a latitudinal highway, splitting the strip into 2 partsthread by @ireallyhate you (who is an anti-Zionist Israeli, and has been a fantastic source throughout this) on Twitter
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:14 PM on February 18 [8 favorites]
ICJ LIVE: Hearing on Israel’s occupation of West Bank, Gaza, east Jerusalem (Associated Press, Piped/YouTube, 5h2m26s; judges enter at 1:08:34)
posted by flabdablet at 6:26 AM on February 19 [2 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 6:26 AM on February 19 [2 favorites]
Israel/oPt: UN experts appalled by reported human rights violations against Palestinian women and girls (UN OHCHR):
“We are particularly distressed by reports that Palestinian women and girls in detention have also been subjected to multiple forms of sexual assault, such as being stripped naked and searched by male Israeli army officers. At least two female Palestinian detainees were reportedly raped while others were reportedly threatened with rape and sexual violence,” the experts said. They also noted that photos of female detainees in degrading circumstances were also reportedly taken by the Israeli army and uploaded online.posted by kmt at 8:16 AM on February 19 [10 favorites]
The experts expressed concern that an unknown number of Palestinian women and children, including girls, have reportedly gone missing after contact with the Israeli army in Gaza. “There are disturbing reports of at least one female infant forcibly transferred by the Israeli army into Israel, and of children being separated from their parents, whose whereabouts remain unknown,” they said.
More news (these are Twitter links):
They are broadcasting the kidnap and torture of Palestinian civilians on TV in Israel.
Settlers continue to escalate terrorist attacks against Palestinians in the West Bank.
People in northern Gaza are collapsing in the street from starvation.
I no longer wonder how the Holocaust happened, because another holocaust is happening right fucking now.
posted by adrienneleigh at 9:18 AM on February 19 [17 favorites]
They are broadcasting the kidnap and torture of Palestinian civilians on TV in Israel.
Settlers continue to escalate terrorist attacks against Palestinians in the West Bank.
People in northern Gaza are collapsing in the street from starvation.
I no longer wonder how the Holocaust happened, because another holocaust is happening right fucking now.
posted by adrienneleigh at 9:18 AM on February 19 [17 favorites]
Laying the groundwork for Gaza’s permanent exodus (+972 Magazine):
Pushing as many Palestinians as possible out of Gaza has long been a fantasy of Israeli politicians. Now, with roughly half of the Strip’s population backed against the Egyptian border and much of the remaining half threatened with starvation, Israel appears closer than ever to making good on that fantasy.posted by kmt at 5:56 AM on February 20 [7 favorites]
Forced displacement, however, is only one of Israel’s aims; making it permanent is the other. Established in 1949, UNRWA — which was initially “an instrument of explicit U.S. policy,” Takkenberg reminded me — has sustained five generations of Palestinian refugees, including in emergencies, according to the agency’s Registration and Eligibility Division. Since any Palestinians pushed into the Sinai would no longer reside within UNRWA’s area of operations, their right to return, Israel and its backers insist, would also become moot.
...
“Forcing UNRWA to cease operations or forcing Palestinian refugees into Egypt will not abolish the inalienable rights of the refugees to return, restitution, and compensation,” Takkenberg said. “Those rights flow from the illegality of the ethnic cleansing of Palestine, and they only become stronger with the passage of time and the further development of international law.”
Mod note: The comment implying that one side has suffered more than the other, along with a few responses, has been removed. Let's not do those sorts of comparisons, thank you.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 6:15 AM on February 20
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 6:15 AM on February 20
The United States has vetoed another United Nations Security Council resolution on the Israel-Hamas war in the Gaza Strip, rejecting calls for an immediate cease-fire.The US draft proposal does at least use the word "ceasefire", which I suppose is progress, though not really meaningful progress, especially for the people of Gaza. The UK government are cowards for abstaining, but 13-1-1 is still pretty damning.
The U.S. has proposed its own draft, which it says would support delicate diplomacy toward releasing hostages taken in the Oct. 7 Hamas attack in Israel.
The draft resolution that Algeria proposed would have demanded an immediate humanitarian cease-fire.
The vote in the 15-member Security Council was 13 in favor and the United States against. The United Kingdom abstained.
posted by jedicus at 9:31 AM on February 20 [3 favorites]
Crisis in Gaza: Scenario-Based Health Impact Projections
Our group has developed models to project excess deaths, both direct (trauma-related) and indirect that may occur in Gaza over the six-month period from 7 February 2024 to 6 August 2024. Alternative projections have been developed for each of three scenarios: 1) ceasefire, 2) continuation of conditions experienced between 7 October 2023 to 6 February 2024, termed “status quo,”; and 3) further escalation of the war, termed “escalation”. The projections are stratified by sub- period, age and category of proximal causes of death, including traumatic injuries, infectious diseases, maternal and neonatal causes (i.e. infants less than 28 days old) and non-communicable diseases.posted by kmt at 1:12 PM on February 20 [6 favorites]
Breaking: Israeli forces just separated Rafah in the southern #Gaza Strip from the adjacent cities and areas, meaning that the around 1.5 million Palestinians there cannot now evacuate it while the army is preparing for a ground invasion.Maha Husseini on Twitter
posted by adrienneleigh at 5:48 PM on February 20 [2 favorites]
Rugs, cosmetics, motorbikes: Israeli soldiers are looting Gaza homes en masse
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:59 PM on February 20 [12 favorites]
In November, the Palestinian singer Hamada Nasrallah was shocked to discover a TikTok of a soldier playing the guitar that his father had bought him 15 years earlier. Other videos uploaded to social media in recent months show Israeli soldiers boasting about finding wristwatches; unboxing someone’s collection of soccer shirts; and stealing rugs, groceries, and jewelry.(+972Mag)
In a Facebook group for Israeli women comprising nearly 100,000 users, someone wondered what to do with the “gifts from Gaza” that her partner, a soldier, had brought back for her. Sharing a photo of cosmetic products, she wrote: “Everything is sealed except for one product. Would you use these? And does someone know the products or are they only in Gaza?”
Indeed, since the start of Israel’s ground invasion in late October, soldiers have been taking whatever they can get their hands on from the homes of Palestinians who have been forced to flee. More than an open secret, the phenomenon has been widely — and uncritically — reported in the Israeli media, while rabbis from the Religious Zionist movement have been answering soldiers’ questions about what is permissible to loot according to Jewish law.
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:59 PM on February 20 [12 favorites]
Israel attacks Doctors Without Borders' shelter in Gaza
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:10 AM on February 21 [6 favorites]
"Tonight Israeli forces conducted an operation in Al Mawasi, Khan Younis, Gaza, where a shelter hosting MSF staff and their families was shelled,” MSF said on X.(Anadolu Agency)
"While details are still emerging, ambulance crews have now reached the site, where at least two family members of our colleagues have been killed and six people wounded. We are horrified by what has taken place,” it added.
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:10 AM on February 21 [6 favorites]
adrienneleigh, the link you shared above kept bringing me to a 404 notification, then a splash page would load for Anadolu Agency. Not sure if this provides a direct link to news of the attack on DWB
posted by elkevelvet at 7:25 AM on February 21 [2 favorites]
posted by elkevelvet at 7:25 AM on February 21 [2 favorites]
elkevelvet: yes, that's the correct link, thank you! (It was very late and I probably mistyped somehow.)
posted by adrienneleigh at 10:50 AM on February 21 [1 favorite]
posted by adrienneleigh at 10:50 AM on February 21 [1 favorite]
Minister of Social Equality & Women's Advancement, May Golan of the Likud, during a Knesset hearing about the motion to expel MK Ofer Cassif: "I am personally proud of the ruins of Gaza, and that every baby, even 80 years from now, will tell their grandchildren what the Jews did"@ireallyhateyou on Twitter (link has video)
posted by adrienneleigh at 10:53 AM on February 21 [3 favorites]
Israel loves a rising anti-semitism. They love the idea of Jews being forced to consider it their only option. They love the idea of Jews being inextricably linked with the crimes it commits because it blackmails Jewish people into supporting it. There is immense peril here.Séamus Malekafzali on Twitter
A lot of very smart people, including Jewish people, have been saying for years that Israel, in the name of "making a safe place for Jewish people", ultimately makes them less safe everywhere.
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:08 PM on February 21 [10 favorites]
I've workshopped quite a number of burns from the following article (in Hebrew) which confirms the rumours that's been swirling around for a while:
(Ha Makom) Machine translation: Exposing "the place": the IDF suspected that there were kidnappers in the building and yet attacked. Yossi Sharabi was killed
16 abductees arrived in Hamas captivity alive, until the IDF announced that they were no longer alive. The investigation of the scene reveals that ten of them were killed as a result of IDF activities. "With all due respect to the process of drawing lessons from my brother Yossi's case, as long as the IDF and the intelligence do not know where the 134 abductees are, the danger of harming them is constantly present"
----
The IDF told the family that according to intelligence they had, the attacked building contained weapons intended to harm IDF soldiers. According to them, they knew that hostages were being held in the area but did not know their specific location. They didn't tell the whole truth.
According to information that reached the hottest place, the IDF shelled the building even though it had early intelligence information that hostages were being held there. In fact, the attacked building was marked and defined as a "motor target", and the IDF debated for a long time whether to carry out the attack. In the end, the attack received all the necessary approvals
But plainly it's clear they are a) dumb as hell despite all that investment in security tech; and b) don't actually care about hostages.
posted by cendawanita at 10:10 PM on February 21 [5 favorites]
(Ha Makom) Machine translation: Exposing "the place": the IDF suspected that there were kidnappers in the building and yet attacked. Yossi Sharabi was killed
16 abductees arrived in Hamas captivity alive, until the IDF announced that they were no longer alive. The investigation of the scene reveals that ten of them were killed as a result of IDF activities. "With all due respect to the process of drawing lessons from my brother Yossi's case, as long as the IDF and the intelligence do not know where the 134 abductees are, the danger of harming them is constantly present"
----
The IDF told the family that according to intelligence they had, the attacked building contained weapons intended to harm IDF soldiers. According to them, they knew that hostages were being held in the area but did not know their specific location. They didn't tell the whole truth.
According to information that reached the hottest place, the IDF shelled the building even though it had early intelligence information that hostages were being held there. In fact, the attacked building was marked and defined as a "motor target", and the IDF debated for a long time whether to carry out the attack. In the end, the attack received all the necessary approvals
But plainly it's clear they are a) dumb as hell despite all that investment in security tech; and b) don't actually care about hostages.
posted by cendawanita at 10:10 PM on February 21 [5 favorites]
Everyone who's been buying their intelligence tech really should ask for a refund.
posted by cendawanita at 10:11 PM on February 21 [1 favorite]
posted by cendawanita at 10:11 PM on February 21 [1 favorite]
Oh also, very "you can't fire me I quit" developments:
Israel will withdraw from Eurovision if the EBU disqualifies its song over political lyrics
Israeli newspaper ynet is reporting that Israel’s Eurovision 2024 song may be disqualified because of political lyrics.
Citing “European sources,” the newspaper says the song contains political statements — something many observers had assumed after the revelation the song is titled “October Rain.”
KAN — Israel’s Eurovision broadcaster — quickly convened a council to discuss potential disqualification. The paper says it was decided that if the song is disqualified because of its political content, Israel will withdraw from the contest rather than amending the words or switching songs.
Also in Mako: "בגלל מילים פוליטיות": באיגוד השידור האירופי שוקלים לפסול את ישראל מהאירוויזיון
Good news for everyone who's workshopping their defences on why they just have to watch Eurovision this year.
posted by cendawanita at 10:17 PM on February 21 [3 favorites]
Israel will withdraw from Eurovision if the EBU disqualifies its song over political lyrics
Israeli newspaper ynet is reporting that Israel’s Eurovision 2024 song may be disqualified because of political lyrics.
Citing “European sources,” the newspaper says the song contains political statements — something many observers had assumed after the revelation the song is titled “October Rain.”
KAN — Israel’s Eurovision broadcaster — quickly convened a council to discuss potential disqualification. The paper says it was decided that if the song is disqualified because of its political content, Israel will withdraw from the contest rather than amending the words or switching songs.
Also in Mako: "בגלל מילים פוליטיות": באיגוד השידור האירופי שוקלים לפסול את ישראל מהאירוויזיון
Good news for everyone who's workshopping their defences on why they just have to watch Eurovision this year.
posted by cendawanita at 10:17 PM on February 21 [3 favorites]
No real change from the last time Sky reported it but now it's just direct goss-- I mean reportage from the US intelligence community:
(WSJ Exclusive) U.S. Finds Some Israeli Claims on U.N. Staff Likely, Others Not
Intelligence report says Washington can’t verify Israeli assertions about widespread links to militant groups
----
WASHINGTON—A new U.S. intelligence assessment found it is likely that some employees of a United Nations agency that distributes aid to Palestinians took part in Hamas’s Oct. 7 assault on Israel, but says the U.S. can’t verify Israeli allegations that a larger number of U.N. workers have links to militant groups, people familiar with the report said.
(...) In the new report, which was completed last week, the U.S.’s National Intelligence Council, a group of veteran intelligence analysts, said it assessed with “low confidence” that a handful of Unrwa staffers participated in the Oct. 7 attack, those familiar with the findings said.
A low-confidence assessment indicates that the U.S. intelligence community believes the claims are plausible but cannot make a stronger assertion because it doesn’t have its own independent confirmation. The U.S. concluded the claims are “credible,” a U.S. official said.
U.S. officials said that American spy agencies haven’t traditionally focused on gathering intelligence on Gaza, and that Israel hadn’t shared the raw intelligence behind its assessments with the U.S., limiting their ability to reach clearer conclusions.
The council’s findings, in a roughly four-page report, were circulated within the U.S. government last week, those familiar with the document said.
(...) The report also notes what it says is Israel’s longstanding dislike of the U.N. agency, two of those familiar with the document said.
“There is a specific section that mentions how Israeli bias serves to mischaracterize much of their assessments on Unrwa and says this has resulted in distortions,” one person familiar with the report said.
The U.S. assessment also says that the reality of Hamas’s control in Gaza means that the U.N. agency has to interact with the group to deliver humanitarian relief, but that that doesn’t mean that the agency is collaborating with the militant group, the person said.
Related:-
(BBC) Israel-Gaza war: World Food Programme stops deliveries to northern Gaza
The World Food Programme has paused "life-saving" food deliveries to northern Gaza, saying aid convoys had endured "complete chaos and violence due to the collapse of civil order".
The agency says the decision has not been taken lightly and crews had faced crowds, gunfire and looting.
Passive voice working overtime, so if you're wondering where's all that coming from, don't worry...
(CNN) Exclusive: Israeli forces fired on food convoy in Gaza, UN documents and satellite analysis reveals
Israeli forces fired on a United Nations convoy carrying vital food supplies in central Gaza on February 5, before ultimately blocking the trucks from progressing to the northern part of the territory, where Palestinians are on the verge of famine, according to documents shared exclusively by the UN and CNN’s own analysis.
CNN has seen correspondence between the UN and the Israeli military that show the convoy’s route was agreed upon by both parties prior to the strike. According to an internal incident report compiled by UNRWA, the main UN relief agency in Gaza, which was also seen by CNN, the truck was one of 10 in a convoy sitting stationary at an IDF holding point when it was fired upon.
posted by cendawanita at 12:07 AM on February 22 [8 favorites]
(WSJ Exclusive) U.S. Finds Some Israeli Claims on U.N. Staff Likely, Others Not
Intelligence report says Washington can’t verify Israeli assertions about widespread links to militant groups
----
WASHINGTON—A new U.S. intelligence assessment found it is likely that some employees of a United Nations agency that distributes aid to Palestinians took part in Hamas’s Oct. 7 assault on Israel, but says the U.S. can’t verify Israeli allegations that a larger number of U.N. workers have links to militant groups, people familiar with the report said.
(...) In the new report, which was completed last week, the U.S.’s National Intelligence Council, a group of veteran intelligence analysts, said it assessed with “low confidence” that a handful of Unrwa staffers participated in the Oct. 7 attack, those familiar with the findings said.
A low-confidence assessment indicates that the U.S. intelligence community believes the claims are plausible but cannot make a stronger assertion because it doesn’t have its own independent confirmation. The U.S. concluded the claims are “credible,” a U.S. official said.
U.S. officials said that American spy agencies haven’t traditionally focused on gathering intelligence on Gaza, and that Israel hadn’t shared the raw intelligence behind its assessments with the U.S., limiting their ability to reach clearer conclusions.
The council’s findings, in a roughly four-page report, were circulated within the U.S. government last week, those familiar with the document said.
(...) The report also notes what it says is Israel’s longstanding dislike of the U.N. agency, two of those familiar with the document said.
“There is a specific section that mentions how Israeli bias serves to mischaracterize much of their assessments on Unrwa and says this has resulted in distortions,” one person familiar with the report said.
The U.S. assessment also says that the reality of Hamas’s control in Gaza means that the U.N. agency has to interact with the group to deliver humanitarian relief, but that that doesn’t mean that the agency is collaborating with the militant group, the person said.
Related:-
(BBC) Israel-Gaza war: World Food Programme stops deliveries to northern Gaza
The World Food Programme has paused "life-saving" food deliveries to northern Gaza, saying aid convoys had endured "complete chaos and violence due to the collapse of civil order".
The agency says the decision has not been taken lightly and crews had faced crowds, gunfire and looting.
Passive voice working overtime, so if you're wondering where's all that coming from, don't worry...
(CNN) Exclusive: Israeli forces fired on food convoy in Gaza, UN documents and satellite analysis reveals
Israeli forces fired on a United Nations convoy carrying vital food supplies in central Gaza on February 5, before ultimately blocking the trucks from progressing to the northern part of the territory, where Palestinians are on the verge of famine, according to documents shared exclusively by the UN and CNN’s own analysis.
CNN has seen correspondence between the UN and the Israeli military that show the convoy’s route was agreed upon by both parties prior to the strike. According to an internal incident report compiled by UNRWA, the main UN relief agency in Gaza, which was also seen by CNN, the truck was one of 10 in a convoy sitting stationary at an IDF holding point when it was fired upon.
posted by cendawanita at 12:07 AM on February 22 [8 favorites]
cendawanita: oh, their surveillance *tech* -- especially the software -- is quite competently nasy stuff. Israel's intelligence issues are all in their *personnel*.
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:18 AM on February 22 [1 favorite]
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:18 AM on February 22 [1 favorite]
I knew I forgot to share something along with that hostage news -
(Haaretz) Israeli Finance Minister Sparks Outrage After Saying Returning Gaza Hostages 'Not Most Important Thing'
In an interview with Kan public radio, the far-right minister added that calls to release the hostages at any cost are "incorrect and irresponsible statements." According to Smotrich, the only way to get them back is to defeat Hamas "and increase military pressure even more. That's what brought about the previous deal."
Eli Albag, the father of 18-year-old hostage Liri Albag, referred to Smotrich as "a dark and petty man" and blasted him for abandoning "my daughter, his daughter, our children."
At a spontaneous demonstration in front of the defense ministry in Tel Aviv, Albag addressed Smotrich and said: "Let them take your children, and I will shout in the street 'it's not the most important thing'."
He added: "Anyone who thinks that the kidnapped civilians are not important, then let them kidnap your children, and then you can talk."
Other belated sharing:
(UK parliament committee press release) Committee Members report back on conditions in Gaza
Speaking on their return from Al-Arish, Chair of the Committee Sarah Champion MP said:
“Nothing that has been reported braces you for the true scale of the horror in Gaza. We’re simply not getting accurate information about the levels of destruction and brutality.
“Listening to seasoned humanitarians tell us that what they’ve witnessed in Gaza makes it the worse disaster they've ever seen really brought home the savagery befalling civilians. Aid workers repeatedly questioned why international law wasn’t being followed or upheld in relation to civilians, humanitarians and medics.
“They also expressed a deep feeling of dread and inevitability of Israeli forces carrying out their threat to escalate the assault into Rafah. A senior aid worker described Rafah as water in the bottom of a glass with the pressure getting more and more intense.
“We learned about the lawlessness in Gaza, with Hamas police being killed and civilians getting increasingly desperate. Personally I fear that unless something happens to stabilise the situation, the remaining UN support will withdraw leaving Palestinians utterly alone.
Mairav Zonszein writes for Globe and Mail: Even after Rafah, Israeli victory appears out of reach
Last week, the research division of the IDF military intelligence produced a document for the political echelon warning that even if Hamas’s military forces are dismantled, it will remain intact as a guerrilla group, and will continue to garner popular support. Effectively, the brains of the military told Mr. Netanyahu that his war goal of defeating Hamas and reaching what he has described as “total victory” is unachievable. A few weeks ago, former IDF chief of staff and member of the war cabinet Gadi Eisenkot essentially said the same thing in a TV interview, warning that Mr. Netanyahu is deceiving the public and that a deal – not military force – is the only way to get the hostages home safely. Israel’s defence minister, Yoav Gallant, has also warned several times that the war cannot be effective without a “day-after” plan. This kind of open dissent against the political echelon by the army is extraordinary.
There is some dispute in Israel about how much Hamas has been damaged. Notwithstanding concerns by IDF intelligence and other security experts, some commentators and military analysts insist Hamas is on the verge of collapse and that invading Rafah is necessary to finish the job. With Hamas still conducting negotiations via Qatar and Egypt on a hostage deal/ceasefire, and able to keep up attacks on IDF soldiers and occasional rocket fire into Israel, this seems doubtful. But even if we assume that Hamas’s military force can be largely neutralized once Israel completes its assault on Rafah, even if Hamas eventually cedes power of the Strip, what then? No one in Israel’s halls of power has an answer to that question, except for the far-right in Mr. Netanyahu’s coalition, which insists Gaza should be depopulated and Israeli settlements rebuilt.
Re: tech vs personnel - true, but I think about who is providing the training 😌😬 not to mention plus the fact that American intelligence ppl have been low-key high-key saying their intel analysis is bad, their tech could just be running on vapours. Oh, speaking of, that does remind me!
(Breach Media) Stephen Harper’s firm pours $350M into developing military tech for Israel - Canadian money helped develop high-tech tools like “behaviour recognition” then used in Israel
Hmmm maybe the bits that work come from elsewhere.
... Wait that's not what I wanted to share...
(RUSI) Israel’s Targeting AI: How Capable is It?
The ‘Habsora’ AI system used by the Israeli military is said to use intelligence data to generate targets for attack, including reports on the likely number of civilian casualties. But the odds of even the Israel Defense Forces using an AI with such a degree of sophistication and autonomy are low.
----
Although ‘creating targets’ might sound like a simple concept, targeting is an immensely complex task, meaning that Habsora would be miles beyond any other tactical/operational system deployed by militaries around the world. The AI would need to be capable of accepting a variety of data formats from numerous sources, weighing the relevance and reliability of each data point, combining this data with existing records, and creating an actionable target profile, while allegedly also estimating civilian collateral damage.
While such capability is may be technically feasible, there is an even lower likelihood of such a system being allowed such a broad remit in a combat environment, because trust in AI, especially military AI, remains lacking. A system like Habsora, with its reported lack of output detailing reasons for target selection, is unlikely to reduce this apprehensiveness.
So considering we essentially have murderous monkeys on typewriters situation, consider the following news: (972) Israel is surveilling U.S. data on settler attacks to thwart sanctions, sources reveal
Sources in Israeli intelligence told both sites that they have been tracking materials passed through private channels by the PA to the Office of U.S. Security Coordinator for Israel and the Palestinian Authority (USSC) in Jerusalem in order to “understand what the U.S. knows about settler violence.” The intention, they explained, is not to act against the perpetrators but to prevent the collected information from “developing into sanctions.”
Anyway, don't forget to pass on some material support if you can. Here's a useful linktree of fundraisers. Generations of killer clowns have preyed on these people for no reason but derangement (also nationalism, but I repeat myself).
posted by cendawanita at 12:41 AM on February 22 [3 favorites]
(Haaretz) Israeli Finance Minister Sparks Outrage After Saying Returning Gaza Hostages 'Not Most Important Thing'
In an interview with Kan public radio, the far-right minister added that calls to release the hostages at any cost are "incorrect and irresponsible statements." According to Smotrich, the only way to get them back is to defeat Hamas "and increase military pressure even more. That's what brought about the previous deal."
Eli Albag, the father of 18-year-old hostage Liri Albag, referred to Smotrich as "a dark and petty man" and blasted him for abandoning "my daughter, his daughter, our children."
At a spontaneous demonstration in front of the defense ministry in Tel Aviv, Albag addressed Smotrich and said: "Let them take your children, and I will shout in the street 'it's not the most important thing'."
He added: "Anyone who thinks that the kidnapped civilians are not important, then let them kidnap your children, and then you can talk."
Other belated sharing:
(UK parliament committee press release) Committee Members report back on conditions in Gaza
Speaking on their return from Al-Arish, Chair of the Committee Sarah Champion MP said:
“Nothing that has been reported braces you for the true scale of the horror in Gaza. We’re simply not getting accurate information about the levels of destruction and brutality.
“Listening to seasoned humanitarians tell us that what they’ve witnessed in Gaza makes it the worse disaster they've ever seen really brought home the savagery befalling civilians. Aid workers repeatedly questioned why international law wasn’t being followed or upheld in relation to civilians, humanitarians and medics.
“They also expressed a deep feeling of dread and inevitability of Israeli forces carrying out their threat to escalate the assault into Rafah. A senior aid worker described Rafah as water in the bottom of a glass with the pressure getting more and more intense.
“We learned about the lawlessness in Gaza, with Hamas police being killed and civilians getting increasingly desperate. Personally I fear that unless something happens to stabilise the situation, the remaining UN support will withdraw leaving Palestinians utterly alone.
Mairav Zonszein writes for Globe and Mail: Even after Rafah, Israeli victory appears out of reach
Last week, the research division of the IDF military intelligence produced a document for the political echelon warning that even if Hamas’s military forces are dismantled, it will remain intact as a guerrilla group, and will continue to garner popular support. Effectively, the brains of the military told Mr. Netanyahu that his war goal of defeating Hamas and reaching what he has described as “total victory” is unachievable. A few weeks ago, former IDF chief of staff and member of the war cabinet Gadi Eisenkot essentially said the same thing in a TV interview, warning that Mr. Netanyahu is deceiving the public and that a deal – not military force – is the only way to get the hostages home safely. Israel’s defence minister, Yoav Gallant, has also warned several times that the war cannot be effective without a “day-after” plan. This kind of open dissent against the political echelon by the army is extraordinary.
There is some dispute in Israel about how much Hamas has been damaged. Notwithstanding concerns by IDF intelligence and other security experts, some commentators and military analysts insist Hamas is on the verge of collapse and that invading Rafah is necessary to finish the job. With Hamas still conducting negotiations via Qatar and Egypt on a hostage deal/ceasefire, and able to keep up attacks on IDF soldiers and occasional rocket fire into Israel, this seems doubtful. But even if we assume that Hamas’s military force can be largely neutralized once Israel completes its assault on Rafah, even if Hamas eventually cedes power of the Strip, what then? No one in Israel’s halls of power has an answer to that question, except for the far-right in Mr. Netanyahu’s coalition, which insists Gaza should be depopulated and Israeli settlements rebuilt.
Re: tech vs personnel - true, but I think about who is providing the training 😌😬 not to mention plus the fact that American intelligence ppl have been low-key high-key saying their intel analysis is bad, their tech could just be running on vapours. Oh, speaking of, that does remind me!
(Breach Media) Stephen Harper’s firm pours $350M into developing military tech for Israel - Canadian money helped develop high-tech tools like “behaviour recognition” then used in Israel
Hmmm maybe the bits that work come from elsewhere.
... Wait that's not what I wanted to share...
(RUSI) Israel’s Targeting AI: How Capable is It?
The ‘Habsora’ AI system used by the Israeli military is said to use intelligence data to generate targets for attack, including reports on the likely number of civilian casualties. But the odds of even the Israel Defense Forces using an AI with such a degree of sophistication and autonomy are low.
----
Although ‘creating targets’ might sound like a simple concept, targeting is an immensely complex task, meaning that Habsora would be miles beyond any other tactical/operational system deployed by militaries around the world. The AI would need to be capable of accepting a variety of data formats from numerous sources, weighing the relevance and reliability of each data point, combining this data with existing records, and creating an actionable target profile, while allegedly also estimating civilian collateral damage.
While such capability is may be technically feasible, there is an even lower likelihood of such a system being allowed such a broad remit in a combat environment, because trust in AI, especially military AI, remains lacking. A system like Habsora, with its reported lack of output detailing reasons for target selection, is unlikely to reduce this apprehensiveness.
So considering we essentially have murderous monkeys on typewriters situation, consider the following news: (972) Israel is surveilling U.S. data on settler attacks to thwart sanctions, sources reveal
Sources in Israeli intelligence told both sites that they have been tracking materials passed through private channels by the PA to the Office of U.S. Security Coordinator for Israel and the Palestinian Authority (USSC) in Jerusalem in order to “understand what the U.S. knows about settler violence.” The intention, they explained, is not to act against the perpetrators but to prevent the collected information from “developing into sanctions.”
Anyway, don't forget to pass on some material support if you can. Here's a useful linktree of fundraisers. Generations of killer clowns have preyed on these people for no reason but derangement (also nationalism, but I repeat myself).
posted by cendawanita at 12:41 AM on February 22 [3 favorites]
Belated share but the lol is current:
(Haaretz, 3 Feb): Israeli Military Surprised by Leak of UNRWA Accusations, Report Says
Senior Israeli military officials were surprised that the United States had become aware of information allegedly implicating staff of the UN's aid agency for Palestinians in the Hamas attacks on October 7, according to a New York Times report published Saturday.
They ordered an investigation into how it had been leaked to the American government and discovered that the source was the United Nations Relief and Works Agency itself, according to the report.
Although the allegations reinforce the Israeli narrative against UNRWA, the military would rather not have the agency shut down entirely amid the humanitarian disaster in the Gaza Strip, the New York Times reported.
(...) There is a dispute among IDF officers dealing with the Gaza Strip over whether it was correct to fuel the debate about UNWRA, which may result in the cessation of funding from other countries in the middle of the war, according to the report. There is also a fear that if the agency collapses without an alternative replacement, Israel will be forced to fill the void, although the political echelon is less concerned about this. According to a press release issued by Defense Minister Yoav Gallant on Friday after a speech he gave to foreign ambassadors, UNWRA "has lost legitimacy for its existence."
Maybe if they'd stop looting lingerie and cooking people's food, they'd... I don't know I got nothing. But this is the force Western political currency is being depleted for, so countries like China can make fairly uncontroversial opinions, like China’s UN envoy lashes out at US for vetoing Gaza ceasefire resolution
Anyway, I'll look up my tabs on the specific news but to no one's surprise the intel on Al-Nasser Hospital is also bad, though they claimed in English there were signs that there are hostages, but what they found are meds, and in Hebrew news, the meds are apparently smuggled from the families themselves.
As a global southie I am very impressed by the level of govt dysfunction.
posted by cendawanita at 1:29 AM on February 22 [8 favorites]
(Haaretz, 3 Feb): Israeli Military Surprised by Leak of UNRWA Accusations, Report Says
Senior Israeli military officials were surprised that the United States had become aware of information allegedly implicating staff of the UN's aid agency for Palestinians in the Hamas attacks on October 7, according to a New York Times report published Saturday.
They ordered an investigation into how it had been leaked to the American government and discovered that the source was the United Nations Relief and Works Agency itself, according to the report.
Although the allegations reinforce the Israeli narrative against UNRWA, the military would rather not have the agency shut down entirely amid the humanitarian disaster in the Gaza Strip, the New York Times reported.
(...) There is a dispute among IDF officers dealing with the Gaza Strip over whether it was correct to fuel the debate about UNWRA, which may result in the cessation of funding from other countries in the middle of the war, according to the report. There is also a fear that if the agency collapses without an alternative replacement, Israel will be forced to fill the void, although the political echelon is less concerned about this. According to a press release issued by Defense Minister Yoav Gallant on Friday after a speech he gave to foreign ambassadors, UNWRA "has lost legitimacy for its existence."
Maybe if they'd stop looting lingerie and cooking people's food, they'd... I don't know I got nothing. But this is the force Western political currency is being depleted for, so countries like China can make fairly uncontroversial opinions, like China’s UN envoy lashes out at US for vetoing Gaza ceasefire resolution
Anyway, I'll look up my tabs on the specific news but to no one's surprise the intel on Al-Nasser Hospital is also bad, though they claimed in English there were signs that there are hostages, but what they found are meds, and in Hebrew news, the meds are apparently smuggled from the families themselves.
As a global southie I am very impressed by the level of govt dysfunction.
posted by cendawanita at 1:29 AM on February 22 [8 favorites]
Lest I be accused of being unfair: the Association of Rape Crisis Centers in Israel (ARCCI) just announced that they have finally submitted a report to the UN.
My take is not particularly kind because a quick scan showed previously critiqued-to-debunked reporting eg the NYT piece so this now feels like one hand dealing to the other hand, with confidentiality claims putting the report's anecdotes somehow at an unverifiable threshold in comparison to the recent report/statement on Palestinian women by OCHA linked up thread, unless of course we must take it as a given Palestinian women are just that more tougher and/or who cares about their fragility as we ask them to relive their traumas as we document the abuses they endured.
In any case, I'm gonna just share the URL as it is because it's not every day I see a government file tree just nakedly labelling a folder as the Blob Folder: https://www.gov.il/BlobFolder/news/arcci-submits-first-report-to-un-21-feb-2024/en/English_Swords_of_Iron_DOCUMENTS_ARCCI%20report%20-%20Hamas%20sexual%20crimes%20on%20october%207.pdf
posted by cendawanita at 2:00 AM on February 22 [2 favorites]
My take is not particularly kind because a quick scan showed previously critiqued-to-debunked reporting eg the NYT piece so this now feels like one hand dealing to the other hand, with confidentiality claims putting the report's anecdotes somehow at an unverifiable threshold in comparison to the recent report/statement on Palestinian women by OCHA linked up thread, unless of course we must take it as a given Palestinian women are just that more tougher and/or who cares about their fragility as we ask them to relive their traumas as we document the abuses they endured.
In any case, I'm gonna just share the URL as it is because it's not every day I see a government file tree just nakedly labelling a folder as the Blob Folder: https://www.gov.il/BlobFolder/news/arcci-submits-first-report-to-un-21-feb-2024/en/English_Swords_of_Iron_DOCUMENTS_ARCCI%20report%20-%20Hamas%20sexual%20crimes%20on%20october%207.pdf
posted by cendawanita at 2:00 AM on February 22 [2 favorites]
That's a yikes from me:
"I am personally proud of the ruins of Gaza, and that every baby, even 80 years from now, will tell their grandchildren what the Jews did." -- May Golan, Israeli Minister of Social Equality & Women's Advancement
(Apparently she has a history of uttering rather shocking statements.)
"You will die, your children will die, your grandchildren will die - there won't be a Palestinian state, there will never be," - Knesset member Hanoch Milbitsky shouted at Arab member Ayman Odeh following the voting regarding the possible recognition of a Palestinian state
"I think we should kill them all." - Congressman Andy Ogles (R-TN) on Palestinians in Gaza
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 3:01 AM on February 22 [9 favorites]
"I am personally proud of the ruins of Gaza, and that every baby, even 80 years from now, will tell their grandchildren what the Jews did." -- May Golan, Israeli Minister of Social Equality & Women's Advancement
(Apparently she has a history of uttering rather shocking statements.)
"You will die, your children will die, your grandchildren will die - there won't be a Palestinian state, there will never be," - Knesset member Hanoch Milbitsky shouted at Arab member Ayman Odeh following the voting regarding the possible recognition of a Palestinian state
"I think we should kill them all." - Congressman Andy Ogles (R-TN) on Palestinians in Gaza
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 3:01 AM on February 22 [9 favorites]
"I am personally proud of the ruins of Gaza, and that every baby, even 80 years from now, will tell their grandchildren what the Jews did." -- May Golan, Israeli Minister of Social Equality & Women's Advancement
When did conflating the IDF with The Jews stop being considered the most vile kind of racism?
I guess it's OK if you'rea Republican Likud a fascist.
posted by flabdablet at 3:18 AM on February 22 [8 favorites]
When did conflating the IDF with The Jews stop being considered the most vile kind of racism?
I guess it's OK if you're
posted by flabdablet at 3:18 AM on February 22 [8 favorites]
WaPo: The American citizens fighting and dying for Israel in the Gaza war (archived)
Though U.S. citizens make up less than 2 percent of Israel’s population, they account for almost 10 percent of the country’s war dead since the start of the ground invasion in Gaza.posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 5:01 AM on February 22 [2 favorites]
Mr. Netanyahu’s coalition, which insists Gaza should be depopulated
No shock this parroting of the Israeli propagandist language is coming from the Globe and Mail but boy howdy do I hate this soft language for genocide.
"I think we should kill them all." - Congressman Andy Ogles (R-TN) on Palestinians in Gaza
On the other hand the comparisons to the Nazis just write themselves if you do that.
posted by Mitheral at 5:58 AM on February 22 [10 favorites]
No shock this parroting of the Israeli propagandist language is coming from the Globe and Mail but boy howdy do I hate this soft language for genocide.
"I think we should kill them all." - Congressman Andy Ogles (R-TN) on Palestinians in Gaza
On the other hand the comparisons to the Nazis just write themselves if you do that.
posted by Mitheral at 5:58 AM on February 22 [10 favorites]
The poet Mosab Abu Toha's article about his family's escape from Gaza, including his detention and mistreatment by the IDF, is very much worth reading. I did a search and this was linked previously back when it came out, but I hadn't seen it until just now, so this may be new to others here as well.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:34 AM on February 22 [6 favorites]
posted by Dip Flash at 6:34 AM on February 22 [6 favorites]
Today's ICJ hearing Day 4 is still ongoing, but from the morning session, you can probably mark China as a country you don't ever have to ask about condemning Hamas when they reminded the court of this banger of a right: (The Cradle) China backs Palestinians' right to 'armed struggle' against Israeli occupation, by calling back to the Bandung Conference of all precedents (which is basically an Afro-Asian Alliance that's the precursor to the Non-Aligned Movement during the Cold War) - though this wasn't mentioned in the article but I'm not surprised because why would the west know anything about the 'Third World' that's not a shorthand for poor countries?
This marks the first time this particular right is expressly brought up for this hearing though China very carefully delineated how this didn't apply to their domestic issues, mmmhmm.
posted by cendawanita at 7:29 AM on February 22 [5 favorites]
This marks the first time this particular right is expressly brought up for this hearing though China very carefully delineated how this didn't apply to their domestic issues, mmmhmm.
posted by cendawanita at 7:29 AM on February 22 [5 favorites]
The poet Mosab Abu Toha's article about his family's escape from Gaza, including his detention and mistreatment by the IDF, is very much worth reading.
To add to that: much of what makes it such a harrowing account is his agony that only his immediate, nuclear family (spouse and children) are able to escape, thanks to his son having been born in the US and Toha's international prominence and supporters. His extended family is left behind, without any of that protection. It's beautifully written, but it's not an easy read.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:59 AM on February 22 [3 favorites]
To add to that: much of what makes it such a harrowing account is his agony that only his immediate, nuclear family (spouse and children) are able to escape, thanks to his son having been born in the US and Toha's international prominence and supporters. His extended family is left behind, without any of that protection. It's beautifully written, but it's not an easy read.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:59 AM on February 22 [3 favorites]
MSF gives a powerful statement to the UNSC and directly calls out the complicity of the US in Palestinian genocide:
posted by adrienneleigh at 1:37 PM on February 22 [6 favorites]
We are appalled by the willingness of the United States to use its powers as a permanent Council member to obstruct efforts to adopt the most evident of resolutions: one demanding an immediate and sustained ceasefire.MSF briefing on Gaza to UN Security Council
Three times this Council has had an opportunity to vote for the ceasefire that is so desperately needed and three times the United States has used its veto power, most recently this Tuesday.
posted by adrienneleigh at 1:37 PM on February 22 [6 favorites]
Citing examples of "various people [who] freed themselves from colonial rule" through armed resistance, Xinmin argued that acts of resistance against the Israeli occupation are "not terrorism" but a legitimate armed struggle and an "inalienable right."
First or second day the war I posited do the Palestinian people have a right to defend themselves. China seems to be enjoying its position to say what it needs to say without backing it up with humanitarian aid of any significance or military force. as far as I can tell, there's about 3 million the Chinese provided for aid to Gaza if anybody has a higher figure I'd welcome that figure. not to say that this is a criticism of Chinese policy, it's very pragmatic approach.
and I do agree the Palestinians at this moment going back to October 8th or 9th have every right to defend themselves militarily against an invasion that's broken every crime of humanity. Jordan and the UK recently dropped 4 tonnes of stuff into Gaza. I'm sure they informed Israel I just wonder if they ask their approval. see that's the crazy pants part, despite Israel's mad dirge of revenge they do not shoot down a Jordanian plane carrying supplies. why this isn't happening with other countries doing the same thing I have no idea. the rhetoric coming from Israeli cabinet ministers and other high officials in the United States, Republicans stating quote we should kill them all unquote reminds me of the policies of General Philip Sheridan. While Sheridan denied the qoate " the only good....", this republican has his words chieseled into X.
posted by clavdivs at 1:57 PM on February 22
First or second day the war I posited do the Palestinian people have a right to defend themselves. China seems to be enjoying its position to say what it needs to say without backing it up with humanitarian aid of any significance or military force. as far as I can tell, there's about 3 million the Chinese provided for aid to Gaza if anybody has a higher figure I'd welcome that figure. not to say that this is a criticism of Chinese policy, it's very pragmatic approach.
and I do agree the Palestinians at this moment going back to October 8th or 9th have every right to defend themselves militarily against an invasion that's broken every crime of humanity. Jordan and the UK recently dropped 4 tonnes of stuff into Gaza. I'm sure they informed Israel I just wonder if they ask their approval. see that's the crazy pants part, despite Israel's mad dirge of revenge they do not shoot down a Jordanian plane carrying supplies. why this isn't happening with other countries doing the same thing I have no idea. the rhetoric coming from Israeli cabinet ministers and other high officials in the United States, Republicans stating quote we should kill them all unquote reminds me of the policies of General Philip Sheridan. While Sheridan denied the qoate " the only good....", this republican has his words chieseled into X.
posted by clavdivs at 1:57 PM on February 22
despite Israel's mad dirge of revenge they do not shoot down a Jordanian plane carrying supplies
I'm not sure Israel actually has all that much anti-aircraft capability? Most of their military is focused on continuing to harass and oppress the people they've been harassing and oppressing for years, none of whom have significant air power. I mean, i'm sure they have SAMs, but those are trickier to use than you'd think, especially when your ground troops can't count on not being shot at while you're trying to fire them.
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:12 PM on February 22
I'm not sure Israel actually has all that much anti-aircraft capability? Most of their military is focused on continuing to harass and oppress the people they've been harassing and oppressing for years, none of whom have significant air power. I mean, i'm sure they have SAMs, but those are trickier to use than you'd think, especially when your ground troops can't count on not being shot at while you're trying to fire them.
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:12 PM on February 22
I'm quite sure they do. easily shoot it down with a 20 mm Cannon on helicopter etc., etc. it's not the point. I'm sure that both kingdoms gave Israel advance notice, the supplies were air dropped to the Jordanian hospital. it's the informal agreement between the three parties that interests me how it was conveyed how it was conducted. I mean there's elements to the Berlin airlift here and I can't think of more predominant powers in the region to be able to carry the logistics out even though it was only four tonnes. what I'm looking here is for an acceleration of these air drops. I'd create a separate UN resolution that targeting new infrastructure like the new desalination plants or new camps or new facilities off limits to IDF. I think if this Tempo were increased, it might put insurmountable pressure against Israel about a continuous occupation of Gaza. I'm looking for proactive solutions not hypotheticals of the IDF anti-aircraft capability in a situation that was most likely resolved between the three parties involved including the Palestinian people on the ground. I believe at this point that massive amount of humanitarian aid backed up with kinetic Force but used in a non-threatening manner could certainly deter Israel from a continuous occupation of the Gaza and further continuation of incursions or thoughts of invading Lebanon.
Ship ablaze in Gulf of Aden as Israel shoots down fire in suspected Houthi attacks
The Reason why China won't fight the Houthis
again, a pragmatic approach especially if you've been given guarantees by the houthis that you're shipping will not be attacked this includes russia.
posted by clavdivs at 2:53 PM on February 22 [2 favorites]
Ship ablaze in Gulf of Aden as Israel shoots down fire in suspected Houthi attacks
The Reason why China won't fight the Houthis
again, a pragmatic approach especially if you've been given guarantees by the houthis that you're shipping will not be attacked this includes russia.
posted by clavdivs at 2:53 PM on February 22 [2 favorites]
you know, reckless humanitarianism might be the only way to reduce the number of deaths at this point
posted by elkevelvet at 3:05 PM on February 22 [4 favorites]
posted by elkevelvet at 3:05 PM on February 22 [4 favorites]
China seems to be enjoying its position to say what it needs to say without backing it up with humanitarian aid of any significance or military force.
Early on I had rounds of back-and-forths with people ready to see the end of the American-led world order and this point can't be beat. But there's another angle why China brought up Bandung instead of just sticking to established UN principles allowing armed resistance imo - the Bandung and later NAM was specifically anti-imperial even with China onboard for Bandung, where there was explicit callouts against the Soviet Union as well. And it's one thing for this ICJ hearing where now we're seeing the reexpansion of third party obligations and universal jurisdiction in realtime, where most people's head is at, but the thing about NAM (and honestly that fed into the formation of ASEAN, and you can compare this with the African Union which has a more EU character with their own aspirations for an eventual NATO etc) is the principle of non-interference in domestic affairs.
So just like ASEAN can never be expected to interfere in Myanmar the way the AU has sent peacekeeping forces regionally and semi-relatedly the thinking that led to the Gambia filing against Myanmar, I don't expect China to intervene with hardware (there are other factors I think but this area of confluence is little discussed so I'll need to think on this somemore) but this is a crazy strong statement to make regardless, which iirc isn't something they held forth even against Russia, so for good or ill, the tea leaves that I'm reading is that for China the status of Israel is a straightforward foreign colonial entity.
On that note I'm pretty sure one of the Arab countries capped off their submission yesterday by saying that this does not imply a recognition of Israel, and my head is telling me it's Jordan. The air drops are interesting because it's not just with the UK, it's also with Norway. But the other thing is that Jordan, UAE, and KSA has been said (by Israeli media) to be actively circumventing the shipping blockade by establishing a land route into Israel. that said, this has been denied officially by Jordan tho local Jordanians have been protesting the known route. In the meantime hostage families are doing their own negotiations with Qatar to successfully get meds to their family members. While Palestinians are having to raise extortionate amounts to get Egypt agents to get them out past the border.
Israel's occupation cannot function without its regional neighbours. But while material moves are being made, even KSA made declarations that countries should stop supporting Israel with weapons (mind you the liberal Zionists I know are confidently trashing the calls because their position is Israel doesn't need those arms that much as a lot of what they're using is their own manufacture, of which I'm just the shruggie emoji). But there's something about the political moment that looks like we can at least claw something out for the Palestinians, ironically assisted by the Israeli government being so transparently uh, fascist.
posted by cendawanita at 6:30 PM on February 22 [3 favorites]
Early on I had rounds of back-and-forths with people ready to see the end of the American-led world order and this point can't be beat. But there's another angle why China brought up Bandung instead of just sticking to established UN principles allowing armed resistance imo - the Bandung and later NAM was specifically anti-imperial even with China onboard for Bandung, where there was explicit callouts against the Soviet Union as well. And it's one thing for this ICJ hearing where now we're seeing the reexpansion of third party obligations and universal jurisdiction in realtime, where most people's head is at, but the thing about NAM (and honestly that fed into the formation of ASEAN, and you can compare this with the African Union which has a more EU character with their own aspirations for an eventual NATO etc) is the principle of non-interference in domestic affairs.
So just like ASEAN can never be expected to interfere in Myanmar the way the AU has sent peacekeeping forces regionally and semi-relatedly the thinking that led to the Gambia filing against Myanmar, I don't expect China to intervene with hardware (there are other factors I think but this area of confluence is little discussed so I'll need to think on this somemore) but this is a crazy strong statement to make regardless, which iirc isn't something they held forth even against Russia, so for good or ill, the tea leaves that I'm reading is that for China the status of Israel is a straightforward foreign colonial entity.
On that note I'm pretty sure one of the Arab countries capped off their submission yesterday by saying that this does not imply a recognition of Israel, and my head is telling me it's Jordan. The air drops are interesting because it's not just with the UK, it's also with Norway. But the other thing is that Jordan, UAE, and KSA has been said (by Israeli media) to be actively circumventing the shipping blockade by establishing a land route into Israel. that said, this has been denied officially by Jordan tho local Jordanians have been protesting the known route. In the meantime hostage families are doing their own negotiations with Qatar to successfully get meds to their family members. While Palestinians are having to raise extortionate amounts to get Egypt agents to get them out past the border.
Israel's occupation cannot function without its regional neighbours. But while material moves are being made, even KSA made declarations that countries should stop supporting Israel with weapons (mind you the liberal Zionists I know are confidently trashing the calls because their position is Israel doesn't need those arms that much as a lot of what they're using is their own manufacture, of which I'm just the shruggie emoji). But there's something about the political moment that looks like we can at least claw something out for the Palestinians, ironically assisted by the Israeli government being so transparently uh, fascist.
posted by cendawanita at 6:30 PM on February 22 [3 favorites]
So just like ASEAN can never be expected to interfere in Myanmar the way the AU has sent peacekeeping forces regionally and semi-relatedly the thinking that led to the Gambia filing against Myanmar, I don't expect China to intervene with hardware (there are other factors I think but this area of confluence is little discussed so I'll need to think on this somemore) but this is a crazy strong statement to make regardless, which iirc isn't something they held forth even against Russia, so for good or ill, the tea leaves that I'm reading is that for China the status of Israel is a straightforward foreign colonial entity.
So while I'm not arguing against your overall political framework here, I'd note that probably the biggest reason China isn't even hinting at intervening "with hardware" is that their ability to do so is close to nil. They have a huge-ass military, but their ability to project force drops off quickly outside of their immediate vicinity. To be able to do that costs huge money and takes decades to build up, and right now the list of countries that can for-real (not rhetorically) intervene across the globe is very small.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:19 PM on February 22
So while I'm not arguing against your overall political framework here, I'd note that probably the biggest reason China isn't even hinting at intervening "with hardware" is that their ability to do so is close to nil. They have a huge-ass military, but their ability to project force drops off quickly outside of their immediate vicinity. To be able to do that costs huge money and takes decades to build up, and right now the list of countries that can for-real (not rhetorically) intervene across the globe is very small.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:19 PM on February 22
the formation of ASEAN, ,.. is the principle of non-interference in domestic affairs.
ASA theN SEATO. of course waaay back then it was to contain communism ASEAN, it's been a awhile since I brushed up as I studied it when I studied Cambodia and how the 97 coup delayed its entry. interesting that that was a coup between a secular party and the royalists of course this could be seen as inevitable after the death of King Sihanouk who I conside one of the most interesting personalities of the 20th century. NAM, interesting as I believe last China's foray into warfare was 1979 against Vietnam a Soviet aligned client state. by conservative measures if China had to occupy militarily the ASEAN aligned countries..well.
an American LED centric policy for the world is a tough notion to factor as there several points, number one being trade this backed up by military force. most people don't know this but United States had supreme control over the world for only about 3 years if you go back to Rome there was one year when we had four emperors.
United States has learned one lesson from history, it is from Rome most likely it's downfall was the contraction and schism within the empire over time I think the lesson here is the United States is contracting. United States is gone to lengths to limit its army under the Obama Administration. For domestic tranquility, one of the main factors is energy Independence which took approximately 30 years for the United States to achieve. whatever peace comes from this madness will not be led by the United States it has too much silly string on it concerning its history in the region.
posted by clavdivs at 7:32 PM on February 22 [1 favorite]
ASA theN SEATO. of course waaay back then it was to contain communism ASEAN, it's been a awhile since I brushed up as I studied it when I studied Cambodia and how the 97 coup delayed its entry. interesting that that was a coup between a secular party and the royalists of course this could be seen as inevitable after the death of King Sihanouk who I conside one of the most interesting personalities of the 20th century. NAM, interesting as I believe last China's foray into warfare was 1979 against Vietnam a Soviet aligned client state. by conservative measures if China had to occupy militarily the ASEAN aligned countries..well.
an American LED centric policy for the world is a tough notion to factor as there several points, number one being trade this backed up by military force. most people don't know this but United States had supreme control over the world for only about 3 years if you go back to Rome there was one year when we had four emperors.
United States has learned one lesson from history, it is from Rome most likely it's downfall was the contraction and schism within the empire over time I think the lesson here is the United States is contracting. United States is gone to lengths to limit its army under the Obama Administration. For domestic tranquility, one of the main factors is energy Independence which took approximately 30 years for the United States to achieve. whatever peace comes from this madness will not be led by the United States it has too much silly string on it concerning its history in the region.
posted by clavdivs at 7:32 PM on February 22 [1 favorite]
I'll be quite honest it's as if the world is acting like 19th century characters with 20th century ideals in a 21st century world.
posted by clavdivs at 7:39 PM on February 22
posted by clavdivs at 7:39 PM on February 22
Dip Flash: It's true that China doesn't have the ability to project force that far, but they could certainly ship weaponry. (And i gather that Hizbullah and possibly Al-Qassam already have some Chinese-made rifles & possibly RPGs, although it's likely they got them through closer intermediaries.)
posted by adrienneleigh at 7:40 PM on February 22
posted by adrienneleigh at 7:40 PM on February 22
I'm not sure Israel actually has all that much anti-aircraft capability? Most of their military is focused on continuing to harass and oppress the people
Israel's military is significantly focused on preventing a repeat of 1973 when they were attacked by a numerically and technologically superior enemy coalition. Both Syria and Egypt had advanced anti-air missiles provided to them by the Soviets which grounded the Israeli air-force, while the Arabs had 400+ jets pounding Israeli defensive positions. In the Golan Heights theatre, Israel had 3,000 troops, 180 tanks and 60 artillery, expected to hold off the initial attack by 28,000 Syrian troops, 800 tanks and 600 artillery and 100 jets. Even the man portable anti-tank missiles from the Soviets were a technology they had never faced before, in the Suez theatre Israel lost 200 out of their 300 tanks within the first few days of combat against the 1,000 tanks the Egyptians threw at them.
The IDF's mandate is to counteract such a threat, both numerically and technologically. Israel's 300+ fighter jets in active service are almost all multi-role fighters, equipped with AIM-120 missiles which can strike enemy aircraft 160km away at speeds of Mach 4.5. That is plenty of anti-air capability, as evidenced by their ability to shoot down Yemeni cruise missiles, which are small and low flying - significantly harder to hit than a large airplane.
In fact Israel is also the only nation so far to use air defense against targets in space, as it intercepted a Yemeni missile headed into Israel at an altitude of over 100km.
As for the self reliance thing: it seems other countries rely on Israel for arms, just in the area of anti-aircraft capability alone, Israel has sold over $5 billion worth of SPYDER anti-aircraft systems and over $5 billion worth of Barak-8 anti-air missiles to various European / Asian buyers.
posted by xdvesper at 8:10 PM on February 22
Israel's military is significantly focused on preventing a repeat of 1973 when they were attacked by a numerically and technologically superior enemy coalition. Both Syria and Egypt had advanced anti-air missiles provided to them by the Soviets which grounded the Israeli air-force, while the Arabs had 400+ jets pounding Israeli defensive positions. In the Golan Heights theatre, Israel had 3,000 troops, 180 tanks and 60 artillery, expected to hold off the initial attack by 28,000 Syrian troops, 800 tanks and 600 artillery and 100 jets. Even the man portable anti-tank missiles from the Soviets were a technology they had never faced before, in the Suez theatre Israel lost 200 out of their 300 tanks within the first few days of combat against the 1,000 tanks the Egyptians threw at them.
The IDF's mandate is to counteract such a threat, both numerically and technologically. Israel's 300+ fighter jets in active service are almost all multi-role fighters, equipped with AIM-120 missiles which can strike enemy aircraft 160km away at speeds of Mach 4.5. That is plenty of anti-air capability, as evidenced by their ability to shoot down Yemeni cruise missiles, which are small and low flying - significantly harder to hit than a large airplane.
In fact Israel is also the only nation so far to use air defense against targets in space, as it intercepted a Yemeni missile headed into Israel at an altitude of over 100km.
As for the self reliance thing: it seems other countries rely on Israel for arms, just in the area of anti-aircraft capability alone, Israel has sold over $5 billion worth of SPYDER anti-aircraft systems and over $5 billion worth of Barak-8 anti-air missiles to various European / Asian buyers.
posted by xdvesper at 8:10 PM on February 22
Okay, fair enough, i'm wrong about their anti-aircraft capability. It's good, albeit shocking, that they didn't shoot down the aircraft delivering humanitarian aid. I suppose they figure antagonizing Jordan, at this point, is probably attention they don't want.
(And i hope China decides to arm Al-Qassam and Hizbullah a lot more.)
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:29 PM on February 22 [2 favorites]
(And i hope China decides to arm Al-Qassam and Hizbullah a lot more.)
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:29 PM on February 22 [2 favorites]
Dip Flash: It's true that China doesn't have the ability to project force that far, but they could certainly ship weaponry.
While they are giving plenty of other help, they aren't arming the Russians, who are right next door. There seems to be, at least for the moment, some real reluctance on the part of the Chinese to openly arming bad actors; there's costs there they don't seem interested in paying.
(And i hope China decides to arm Al-Qassam and Hizbullah a lot more.)
I believe this is called "saying the quiet part out loud."
posted by Dip Flash at 8:36 PM on February 22 [2 favorites]
While they are giving plenty of other help, they aren't arming the Russians, who are right next door. There seems to be, at least for the moment, some real reluctance on the part of the Chinese to openly arming bad actors; there's costs there they don't seem interested in paying.
(And i hope China decides to arm Al-Qassam and Hizbullah a lot more.)
I believe this is called "saying the quiet part out loud."
posted by Dip Flash at 8:36 PM on February 22 [2 favorites]
...What, because i think people who are being genocided are allowed to fight back? Well, i do think people who are being genocided are allowed to fight back.
The whole fucking West sends weapons and money to Israel, fucking constantly. Repairs their planes, sends them intelligence operatives, gives them cover for war crimes.
And yes. I wish someone would do that for Palestine and Lebanon, which Israel is constantly attacking. Not so they can "kill all Jews", which i wholeheartedly do not want, but so they can make themselves a seat at a table no one is allowing them to sit at.
If i had a fucking time machine, i'd go back and give boatloads of Kalashnikovas to First Nations people, too, frankly.
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:43 PM on February 22 [10 favorites]
The whole fucking West sends weapons and money to Israel, fucking constantly. Repairs their planes, sends them intelligence operatives, gives them cover for war crimes.
And yes. I wish someone would do that for Palestine and Lebanon, which Israel is constantly attacking. Not so they can "kill all Jews", which i wholeheartedly do not want, but so they can make themselves a seat at a table no one is allowing them to sit at.
If i had a fucking time machine, i'd go back and give boatloads of Kalashnikovas to First Nations people, too, frankly.
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:43 PM on February 22 [10 favorites]
Palestine deserves a real army, and a real air force, and a real navy, as much as any state does (which is none, because i'm an anarchist, but i don't have a way to take those things away from all the genocidaires and this is the next best thing). They deserve to be able to control their own destiny and fight back against a 16-year siege and a policy of murder and exile and literal starvation. And yes, i genuinely and openly DO wish someone would help them out with those things instead of trying to convince them to settle for a Bantustan instead.
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:47 PM on February 22 [9 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:47 PM on February 22 [9 favorites]
And several months (and 75 years) into a genocide, I'm just flat out of performative condemnation for the side that isn't committing it.
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:55 PM on February 22 [18 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:55 PM on February 22 [18 favorites]
I'd note that probably the biggest reason China isn't even hinting at intervening "with hardware" is that their ability to do so is close to nil.
Oh for sure, that fits my general understanding of their capacity (mainly these days by reading on what the russian conscripts are depending on), even if I didn't spell it out, mainly because I'm not too sure to what extent and in part, as from what I understand claudivs's point, the pax Americana is achieved by military international control that no one else is interested to co-opt. And I also agree there's a contraction - perhaps there is such because the idea WAS homogeneity in the world order is functionally achieved. It's hard to argue otherwise imo, and this is where I'll disagree that USA won't be leading the discourse - we're not yet at that point of history. Its alliance of allies, proxies, and outright clients for now is serving the US well despite its near-solitary position as a supporter of today's Israel.
Bringing those two points together, I am struck by today's news about Hezbollah finally it seems genuinely unleashing some demonstration of their military capacity per this tweet from Hadi Nasrallah in response to the strikes on Lebanon yesterday (I guess - I've said before I have an analytical blind spot in understanding ordinances and weaponry particulars in active warzones and contextualising how well their logistical results impacts material politics and strategy). (That tweet describes the strike as unprecedented and shows buildings in the Golan Heights in conflagration). I'm not sure how this will change stuff I heard only last week like Arab countries like the UAE are restricting the US from using their military facilities for retaliatory strikes (US Politico).
As for the self reliance thing: it seems other countries rely on Israel for arms, just in the area of anti-aircraft capability alone, Israel has sold over $5 billion worth of SPYDER anti-aircraft systems and over $5 billion worth of Barak-8 anti-air missiles to various European / Asian buyers.
Yeah like I don't really grok what this means fundamentally - I'm better suited at grasping their utility once people are involved. So the politics of it, which I've covered before. This is definitely the narrative I hear from liberal Zionists/Israelis tho. In any case then they won't need to worry about news like:
(National Post, Canada) John Ivison: Canada wavers on military exports to Israel under pressure to suspend shipments - Canada has stopped issuing export permits for selling military equipment to Israel, according to one person familiar with the matter
(Guardian) UK to consider suspending arms exports to Israel if Rafah offensive goes ahead
(The Wire, India) India’s Water Transport Workers' Union Says Won’t Help Ships Carrying Arms Bound for Israel
- though mind you India is sending over drones via the Adani-Elbit partnership
(OpinioJuris) Dutch Appeals Court Blocks Deliveries of F-35 Parts to Israel: Overview, Analysis and Initial Reflections
(Irish Times) Ireland and Spain seek ‘urgent review’ of Israel trade over EU deal’s human rights obligations (though this is largely referring to trade)
(Press Release in Japanese) NAS tersely announcing their contract with Elbit will end on February 2024 as scheduled.
(Haaretz) Revealed: The Munitions U.S. Supplied Israel for Gaza War
Tens of thousands of 155mm artillery shells, thousands of bunker-buster munitions and 200 kamikaze drones – these are just some weapons and ammunition Israel has asked the U.S. for since the beginning of the war in Gaza.
An internal Pentagon document revealed by Bloomberg on Wednesday details the requests made by "a senior Israeli leader" in late October. The list also includes 2,000 Hellfire laser-guided missiles for Apache gunships and 36,000 rounds of 30mm ammunition for its cannon.
Israel's Apache helicopters have been operating constantly since the early hours of October 7, closely assisting ground forces in the Gaza Strip and on the Lebanon border. According to the document, the missiles, and ammunition have already been provided to the Israeli army.
Israel also asked for 3,000 M141 bunker-buster shoulder fired rockets, made by Nammo Talley Defense and capable of penetrating up to 20 cm of concrete. 1,800 of these have already been shipped, as of late October. Israel has also asked for 400 120mm mortar rounds.
Also on Israel's list, per Bloomberg, are 200 Switchblade 600 dive-bombing drones made by the American AeroVironment company. These drones have a range of 40 km, more than 40 minutes of flight time and a combination of cameras and infrared sensors. The Switchblade, which was also shipped to the Ukrainian army – is equipped with a warhead based on the American Javelin missile, and can hit armored vehicles, bunkers and exposed troops.
According to Breaking Defense, the U.S. Army has ordered more than 100 such drones for its own use in October, leading to the assumption that there are no drones currently available in warehouses.
The document confirms that Israel will be given back the two Iron Dome batteries it had sold to the U.S. Army – which eventually chose a different system – as well as 312 Tamir interceptors. The batteries were shipped to Israel by sea.
The most controversial munitions are the 57,000 155mm shells, at least a portion of which were sent from the U.S. Army's stockpiles in Israel to Europe, for the Ukrainian war effort. Human rights groups as well as Palestinian officials have criticized the use of cannons in the densely-populated Gaza Strip.
The shortage in shells is a problem that has repeated itself in various conflicts in Israel and around the world. Last July, however, Israel's Defense Ministry and Elbit signed a contract worth hundreds of millions of dollars to supply tens of thousands of shells.
The Israeli list of requests also includes 75 armored Joint Light Tactical Vehicles, some of which have already been supplied. Israel also asked for 5,000 PVS-14 night vision devices, manufactured by Elbit America, and L3Harris. 3,500 of these have been provided. At least one item on the list – 20,000 M4A1 rifles (a variant of the AR-15) – has already caused a stir. The U.S. has even threatened to halt the supply when it learned that National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir distributed the weapons to security squads during events that could be construed as political.
I definitely saw the "barak-8" pun though. To have missiles named Blessing. Mmm.
And the reason why the human factor matters to me, because PR copy aside, apparently my accidental beat is finding news how all that hardware still resulted in shit security:
- (ToI) another terror attack today at the Jerusalem checkpoint.
- (Haaretz) Israeli Nova Partygoer Was Misidentified as Hamas Terrorist on October 7 and Killed by Israeli Forces (his girlfriend was shot too: "Ofek Atun escaped the outdoor Nova rave with his girlfriend. They survived the assault on the bomb shelter in which they took refuge, before fleeing to nearby Kibbutz Alumim. The kibbutz's volunteer security squad mistook them for Hamas terrorists – and opened fire")
Let me ask you: how would a Hamas fighter and a rave partygoer look similar enough to kill? (Reminder, earlier: (Reuters) Israeli military opens probe into reports of Oct. 7 friendly fire deaths)
Belated share: (Haaretz, 15 Feb) Israel: No Evidence So Far That Hamas Held Hostages in Gaza's Nasser Hospital
So either all that tech is crap or all that human resource is crap. Take your pick, but don't worry about using weapons support as a diplomatic lever because apparently they're self-sufficient. Phew. I'm sure we'll use their weapons better, their contracting economy needs all the support. In the meantime Palestine continues to be their weapons demo lab: (Haaretz) Shark Tanks: With Gaza as Testing Ground, Israeli Defense Startups Flourish
(Or the special third answer, which is that if you keep your population at a state of terror alert and trauma, you can get away with anything. Now what have I been linked to lately that might touch on that... ah - CCRJ:
Anti-Palestinian at the Core: The Origins and Growing Dangers of U.S. Antiterrorism Law; and The Intercept: How the ADL’s Anti-Palestinian Advocacy Helped Shape U.S. Terror Laws )
Anyway, a couple of Guardian repackages of news shared earlier so if you want something unpaywalled or not UN:
Claims of Israeli sexual assault of Palestinian women are credible, UN panel says - Experts report evidence of rape, sexual humiliation and threats of rape against girls and women
US intelligence casts doubt on Israeli claims of UNRWA-Hamas links, report says
And released yesterday/today, from the head of UNRWA, a letter/report to the President of the UNGA:
Since the ICJ ruling, there has been a concerted effort by some Israeli officials to deceptively conflate UNRWA with Hamas, to disrupt UNRWA’s operations, and to call for the dismantling of the Agency:
The Israeli Land Authority has demanded that UNRWA vacate its Kalandia Vocational Training Center in East Jerusalem (assigned to UNRWA by Jordan in 1952) and pay a “usage fee” of over US $ 4.5 million.
A Deputy Mayor of Jerusalem has taken steps to evict UNRWA from its HQ of 75 years in East Jerusalem.
Visas for most international staff, including those in Gaza, have been limited to one or two months.
The Minister for Finance has stated that he will revoke UNRWA’s tax exemption privileges.
Customs authorities have suspended shipment of UNRWA goods.
An Israeli bank has blocked an UNRWA account.
Hundreds of UNRWA local staff have been refused access to Jerusalem since October to reach UNRWA’s HQ, schools, and health centers.
A Bill has been tabled at the Knesset to exclude UNRWA from UN privileges and immunities.
A second Bill, first tabled in 2021, seeks “to implement Basic Law: Jerusalem Capital of Israel, by preventing any activity by UNRWA in Israeli territory”.
On 31 January 2024, the Prime Minister said UNRWA was “in the service of Hamas”.
Many Israeli officials have called for donors to cease funding UNRWA, which undermines education, health, and other services essential to Palestine Refugees’ human rights.
These actions and statements harm UNRWA’s operations, create staff security risks, and obstruct the Agency’s General Assembly mandate. UNRWA, like any UN entity, cannot operate without the support of host States.
posted by cendawanita at 1:48 AM on February 23 [6 favorites]
Oh for sure, that fits my general understanding of their capacity (mainly these days by reading on what the russian conscripts are depending on), even if I didn't spell it out, mainly because I'm not too sure to what extent and in part, as from what I understand claudivs's point, the pax Americana is achieved by military international control that no one else is interested to co-opt. And I also agree there's a contraction - perhaps there is such because the idea WAS homogeneity in the world order is functionally achieved. It's hard to argue otherwise imo, and this is where I'll disagree that USA won't be leading the discourse - we're not yet at that point of history. Its alliance of allies, proxies, and outright clients for now is serving the US well despite its near-solitary position as a supporter of today's Israel.
Bringing those two points together, I am struck by today's news about Hezbollah finally it seems genuinely unleashing some demonstration of their military capacity per this tweet from Hadi Nasrallah in response to the strikes on Lebanon yesterday (I guess - I've said before I have an analytical blind spot in understanding ordinances and weaponry particulars in active warzones and contextualising how well their logistical results impacts material politics and strategy). (That tweet describes the strike as unprecedented and shows buildings in the Golan Heights in conflagration). I'm not sure how this will change stuff I heard only last week like Arab countries like the UAE are restricting the US from using their military facilities for retaliatory strikes (US Politico).
As for the self reliance thing: it seems other countries rely on Israel for arms, just in the area of anti-aircraft capability alone, Israel has sold over $5 billion worth of SPYDER anti-aircraft systems and over $5 billion worth of Barak-8 anti-air missiles to various European / Asian buyers.
Yeah like I don't really grok what this means fundamentally - I'm better suited at grasping their utility once people are involved. So the politics of it, which I've covered before. This is definitely the narrative I hear from liberal Zionists/Israelis tho. In any case then they won't need to worry about news like:
(National Post, Canada) John Ivison: Canada wavers on military exports to Israel under pressure to suspend shipments - Canada has stopped issuing export permits for selling military equipment to Israel, according to one person familiar with the matter
(Guardian) UK to consider suspending arms exports to Israel if Rafah offensive goes ahead
(The Wire, India) India’s Water Transport Workers' Union Says Won’t Help Ships Carrying Arms Bound for Israel
- though mind you India is sending over drones via the Adani-Elbit partnership
(OpinioJuris) Dutch Appeals Court Blocks Deliveries of F-35 Parts to Israel: Overview, Analysis and Initial Reflections
(Irish Times) Ireland and Spain seek ‘urgent review’ of Israel trade over EU deal’s human rights obligations (though this is largely referring to trade)
(Press Release in Japanese) NAS tersely announcing their contract with Elbit will end on February 2024 as scheduled.
(Haaretz) Revealed: The Munitions U.S. Supplied Israel for Gaza War
Tens of thousands of 155mm artillery shells, thousands of bunker-buster munitions and 200 kamikaze drones – these are just some weapons and ammunition Israel has asked the U.S. for since the beginning of the war in Gaza.
An internal Pentagon document revealed by Bloomberg on Wednesday details the requests made by "a senior Israeli leader" in late October. The list also includes 2,000 Hellfire laser-guided missiles for Apache gunships and 36,000 rounds of 30mm ammunition for its cannon.
Israel's Apache helicopters have been operating constantly since the early hours of October 7, closely assisting ground forces in the Gaza Strip and on the Lebanon border. According to the document, the missiles, and ammunition have already been provided to the Israeli army.
Israel also asked for 3,000 M141 bunker-buster shoulder fired rockets, made by Nammo Talley Defense and capable of penetrating up to 20 cm of concrete. 1,800 of these have already been shipped, as of late October. Israel has also asked for 400 120mm mortar rounds.
Also on Israel's list, per Bloomberg, are 200 Switchblade 600 dive-bombing drones made by the American AeroVironment company. These drones have a range of 40 km, more than 40 minutes of flight time and a combination of cameras and infrared sensors. The Switchblade, which was also shipped to the Ukrainian army – is equipped with a warhead based on the American Javelin missile, and can hit armored vehicles, bunkers and exposed troops.
According to Breaking Defense, the U.S. Army has ordered more than 100 such drones for its own use in October, leading to the assumption that there are no drones currently available in warehouses.
The document confirms that Israel will be given back the two Iron Dome batteries it had sold to the U.S. Army – which eventually chose a different system – as well as 312 Tamir interceptors. The batteries were shipped to Israel by sea.
The most controversial munitions are the 57,000 155mm shells, at least a portion of which were sent from the U.S. Army's stockpiles in Israel to Europe, for the Ukrainian war effort. Human rights groups as well as Palestinian officials have criticized the use of cannons in the densely-populated Gaza Strip.
The shortage in shells is a problem that has repeated itself in various conflicts in Israel and around the world. Last July, however, Israel's Defense Ministry and Elbit signed a contract worth hundreds of millions of dollars to supply tens of thousands of shells.
The Israeli list of requests also includes 75 armored Joint Light Tactical Vehicles, some of which have already been supplied. Israel also asked for 5,000 PVS-14 night vision devices, manufactured by Elbit America, and L3Harris. 3,500 of these have been provided. At least one item on the list – 20,000 M4A1 rifles (a variant of the AR-15) – has already caused a stir. The U.S. has even threatened to halt the supply when it learned that National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir distributed the weapons to security squads during events that could be construed as political.
I definitely saw the "barak-8" pun though. To have missiles named Blessing. Mmm.
And the reason why the human factor matters to me, because PR copy aside, apparently my accidental beat is finding news how all that hardware still resulted in shit security:
- (ToI) another terror attack today at the Jerusalem checkpoint.
- (Haaretz) Israeli Nova Partygoer Was Misidentified as Hamas Terrorist on October 7 and Killed by Israeli Forces (his girlfriend was shot too: "Ofek Atun escaped the outdoor Nova rave with his girlfriend. They survived the assault on the bomb shelter in which they took refuge, before fleeing to nearby Kibbutz Alumim. The kibbutz's volunteer security squad mistook them for Hamas terrorists – and opened fire")
Let me ask you: how would a Hamas fighter and a rave partygoer look similar enough to kill? (Reminder, earlier: (Reuters) Israeli military opens probe into reports of Oct. 7 friendly fire deaths)
Belated share: (Haaretz, 15 Feb) Israel: No Evidence So Far That Hamas Held Hostages in Gaza's Nasser Hospital
So either all that tech is crap or all that human resource is crap. Take your pick, but don't worry about using weapons support as a diplomatic lever because apparently they're self-sufficient. Phew. I'm sure we'll use their weapons better, their contracting economy needs all the support. In the meantime Palestine continues to be their weapons demo lab: (Haaretz) Shark Tanks: With Gaza as Testing Ground, Israeli Defense Startups Flourish
(Or the special third answer, which is that if you keep your population at a state of terror alert and trauma, you can get away with anything. Now what have I been linked to lately that might touch on that... ah - CCRJ:
Anti-Palestinian at the Core: The Origins and Growing Dangers of U.S. Antiterrorism Law; and The Intercept: How the ADL’s Anti-Palestinian Advocacy Helped Shape U.S. Terror Laws )
Anyway, a couple of Guardian repackages of news shared earlier so if you want something unpaywalled or not UN:
Claims of Israeli sexual assault of Palestinian women are credible, UN panel says - Experts report evidence of rape, sexual humiliation and threats of rape against girls and women
US intelligence casts doubt on Israeli claims of UNRWA-Hamas links, report says
And released yesterday/today, from the head of UNRWA, a letter/report to the President of the UNGA:
Since the ICJ ruling, there has been a concerted effort by some Israeli officials to deceptively conflate UNRWA with Hamas, to disrupt UNRWA’s operations, and to call for the dismantling of the Agency:
The Israeli Land Authority has demanded that UNRWA vacate its Kalandia Vocational Training Center in East Jerusalem (assigned to UNRWA by Jordan in 1952) and pay a “usage fee” of over US $ 4.5 million.
A Deputy Mayor of Jerusalem has taken steps to evict UNRWA from its HQ of 75 years in East Jerusalem.
Visas for most international staff, including those in Gaza, have been limited to one or two months.
The Minister for Finance has stated that he will revoke UNRWA’s tax exemption privileges.
Customs authorities have suspended shipment of UNRWA goods.
An Israeli bank has blocked an UNRWA account.
Hundreds of UNRWA local staff have been refused access to Jerusalem since October to reach UNRWA’s HQ, schools, and health centers.
A Bill has been tabled at the Knesset to exclude UNRWA from UN privileges and immunities.
A second Bill, first tabled in 2021, seeks “to implement Basic Law: Jerusalem Capital of Israel, by preventing any activity by UNRWA in Israeli territory”.
On 31 January 2024, the Prime Minister said UNRWA was “in the service of Hamas”.
Many Israeli officials have called for donors to cease funding UNRWA, which undermines education, health, and other services essential to Palestine Refugees’ human rights.
These actions and statements harm UNRWA’s operations, create staff security risks, and obstruct the Agency’s General Assembly mandate. UNRWA, like any UN entity, cannot operate without the support of host States.
posted by cendawanita at 1:48 AM on February 23 [6 favorites]
Israel needs shells they should go beachcombing.
I also agree there's a contraction - perhaps there is such because the idea WAS homogeneity in the world order is functionally achieved. It's hard to argue otherwise imo, and this is where I'll disagree that USA won't be leading the discourse - we're not yet at that point of history. Its alliance of allies, proxies, and outright clients for now is serving the US well despite its near-solitary position as a supporter of today's Israel.
homogeneity and cultural assimilation.
I have to totally agree on that point and to back pedal on my point, I still do not think the United States should take the lead on this but they could be involved.
I did not know about the Jordanian "points of egress" to get supplies in. Good for them, I rather like King Abdullah II.
I think the last thing that China needs to do is send Small arms to the Palestinian people at this point. I do not see how it would do any good for either side.
posted by clavdivs at 3:04 PM on February 23 [1 favorite]
I also agree there's a contraction - perhaps there is such because the idea WAS homogeneity in the world order is functionally achieved. It's hard to argue otherwise imo, and this is where I'll disagree that USA won't be leading the discourse - we're not yet at that point of history. Its alliance of allies, proxies, and outright clients for now is serving the US well despite its near-solitary position as a supporter of today's Israel.
homogeneity and cultural assimilation.
I have to totally agree on that point and to back pedal on my point, I still do not think the United States should take the lead on this but they could be involved.
I did not know about the Jordanian "points of egress" to get supplies in. Good for them, I rather like King Abdullah II.
I think the last thing that China needs to do is send Small arms to the Palestinian people at this point. I do not see how it would do any good for either side.
posted by clavdivs at 3:04 PM on February 23 [1 favorite]
I think the last thing that China needs to do is send Small arms to the Palestinian people at this point. I do not see how it would do any good for either side.
Well, reliable anti-armor and anti-aircraft weaponry and ammunition would certainly help a lot more than small arms, certainly.
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:18 PM on February 23 [2 favorites]
Well, reliable anti-armor and anti-aircraft weaponry and ammunition would certainly help a lot more than small arms, certainly.
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:18 PM on February 23 [2 favorites]
Israel needs shells they should go beachcombing.
posted by Audreynachrome at 12:15 AM on February 24 [3 favorites]
posted by Audreynachrome at 12:15 AM on February 24 [3 favorites]
Arms exports to Israel must stop immediately: UN experts (UN OHCHR):
“International law does not enforce itself,” the experts said. “All States must not be complicit in international crimes through arms transfers. They must do their part to urgently end the unrelenting humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza.”posted by kmt at 10:19 AM on February 24 [9 favorites]
Two Al Jazeera videos from 2017 show how the Israel lobby penetrated the many different levels of British democracy.
The Lobby Part 1 Young Friends of Israel.
The Lobby Part 2 The Training Session.
More recently Peter Oborne tells Mark Curtis how the Conservative Friends of Israel became one of the most powerful lobby groups in Westminster.
posted by adamvasco at 3:11 PM on February 24 [2 favorites]
The Lobby Part 1 Young Friends of Israel.
The Lobby Part 2 The Training Session.
More recently Peter Oborne tells Mark Curtis how the Conservative Friends of Israel became one of the most powerful lobby groups in Westminster.
posted by adamvasco at 3:11 PM on February 24 [2 favorites]
New Yorker: The Humanitarian Catastrophe in Gaza Can Only Get Worse (archived)
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 5:11 PM on February 24
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 5:11 PM on February 24
So, I don't like to criticize a charitable organization for a couple of bad actors. I think we can all agree on that. to digress, I like the actor Cliff Robertson so I like to watch Tales of Wells Fargo on regular television and a couple of days ago I saw this commercial. go ahead and watch it.
today after work, I like to cook dinner and do the dishes with Cliff, same commercial came on and I to shut it off. other than my television watching habits, what is that telling me. is it sad and I don't want to watch it. are they still in bunkers. I discount propaganda totally for it's a charitable organization not fully entwined in a state agency.
is it a convolution of televised hope and despair, so please help. or is it a lie.
or even worse, both.
what astounds me the most is I have to take that much time to think it through.
posted by clavdivs at 6:29 PM on February 24
today after work, I like to cook dinner and do the dishes with Cliff, same commercial came on and I to shut it off. other than my television watching habits, what is that telling me. is it sad and I don't want to watch it. are they still in bunkers. I discount propaganda totally for it's a charitable organization not fully entwined in a state agency.
is it a convolution of televised hope and despair, so please help. or is it a lie.
or even worse, both.
what astounds me the most is I have to take that much time to think it through.
posted by clavdivs at 6:29 PM on February 24
My Family’s Daily Struggle to Find Food in Gaza (New Yorker, archive link)
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:17 AM on February 25 [4 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:17 AM on February 25 [4 favorites]
Looks like someone self-immolated in front of the Israeli embassy in Washington DC in protest (the second person in the US since Oct 7, to my knowledge)
Also: Reporters for The New York Times and Wall Street Journal Who Authored Incendiary Stories Have Ties to Israeli Propaganda Efforts
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 12:51 PM on February 25 [3 favorites]
Also: Reporters for The New York Times and Wall Street Journal Who Authored Incendiary Stories Have Ties to Israeli Propaganda Efforts
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 12:51 PM on February 25 [3 favorites]
> Looks like someone self-immolated in front of the Israeli embassy in Washington DC in protest (the second person in the US since Oct 7, to my knowledge)
What's going around twitter/bluesky is that it was an active duty member of the US Air Force, saying they refused to be complicit in the genocide of palestinians, which is not yet confirmed (there are some photos of a guy in fatigues but everything is fake these days so impossible to know yet) but it is completely unexpected if true
posted by dis_integration at 1:17 PM on February 25 [3 favorites]
What's going around twitter/bluesky is that it was an active duty member of the US Air Force, saying they refused to be complicit in the genocide of palestinians, which is not yet confirmed (there are some photos of a guy in fatigues but everything is fake these days so impossible to know yet) but it is completely unexpected if true
posted by dis_integration at 1:17 PM on February 25 [3 favorites]
The vast majority of Israelis carrying out this genocide aren't professional soldiers, nor hot-blooded kids straight out of school, but rather normal, average Israeli adults. Mortgage advisors, clerks, farmers, high tech guys, teachers. Everyday people on an annihilation mission.@ireallyhateyou on Twitter
posted by adrienneleigh at 3:47 PM on February 25 [4 favorites]
Task & Purpose has confirmed that the man who self-immolated was an active-duty airman.
posted by adrienneleigh at 4:13 PM on February 25 [4 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 4:13 PM on February 25 [4 favorites]
I expect the Air Force will put a gag order on him, if he survives. But I wonder, given the location, if he was assigned to one of the intel factories.
posted by corb at 4:37 PM on February 25 [1 favorite]
posted by corb at 4:37 PM on February 25 [1 favorite]
I'm humbled. I was already humbled when I saw this piece over the weekend: (Vulture) The Playwright vs. the Theater - Victor I. Cazares has stopped taking their HIV meds — until the NY Theatre Workshop calls for a cease-fire in Gaza.
And related thread: Ethan C7 - Periodic reminder that no, Biden is not down in Michigan polls because of Israel/Gaza - Arabs literally make up at most 2% of the Michigan electorate.
He is down because he is down nationally, and thus down in almost every swing state.
In the worst case scenarios, where Arabs wholesale switch from Biden to Trump (like in Michigan Gov 2022), it’d cost him at most a point, in a state Biden won by 2.8%. Its just not that significant, compared to the normal factor that is regular swing voters.
And: (Michigan Advance) Beto O’Rourke supports uncommitted campaign in Michigan’s Tuesday presidential primary
In the meantime, following Israel's Knesset vote to not (never) provide recognition to the Palestinian state, I saw elsewhere that the PA (and I think the PLO umbrella is gathering steam) announced it's going to continue with statehood regardless. I lost the tweet but last night this was announced: 🚨BREAKING: Current Palestinian Government set to resign on Tuesday; new Technocrat Government to be formed headed by Dr Mohammad Mustafa as incoming Prime Minister.
Dr Mohammad Mustafa is a current member of the PLO executive committee. He is an independent and is not part of any political group. He has held multiple leadership roles such as Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Economy, Chairman of the Palestine Investment Fund, Economic Adviser to President Abbas. As deputy Prime Minister in 2014 he was responsible for the Gaza Reconstruction. During his tenure in PIF, he has attracted over $1.2 billion USD of foreign investment into Palestine, creating ~75,000 jobs. He also been an economic adviser to the Saudi Public Investment Fund (PIF) and Kuwaiti Government.
Apparently this is an attempt against the current international moves to impose a new government on Palestine (which I believe is unrelated to Israel's moves to outright install a colonial government).
posted by cendawanita at 5:35 PM on February 25 [3 favorites]
And related thread: Ethan C7 - Periodic reminder that no, Biden is not down in Michigan polls because of Israel/Gaza - Arabs literally make up at most 2% of the Michigan electorate.
He is down because he is down nationally, and thus down in almost every swing state.
In the worst case scenarios, where Arabs wholesale switch from Biden to Trump (like in Michigan Gov 2022), it’d cost him at most a point, in a state Biden won by 2.8%. Its just not that significant, compared to the normal factor that is regular swing voters.
And: (Michigan Advance) Beto O’Rourke supports uncommitted campaign in Michigan’s Tuesday presidential primary
In the meantime, following Israel's Knesset vote to not (never) provide recognition to the Palestinian state, I saw elsewhere that the PA (and I think the PLO umbrella is gathering steam) announced it's going to continue with statehood regardless. I lost the tweet but last night this was announced: 🚨BREAKING: Current Palestinian Government set to resign on Tuesday; new Technocrat Government to be formed headed by Dr Mohammad Mustafa as incoming Prime Minister.
Dr Mohammad Mustafa is a current member of the PLO executive committee. He is an independent and is not part of any political group. He has held multiple leadership roles such as Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Economy, Chairman of the Palestine Investment Fund, Economic Adviser to President Abbas. As deputy Prime Minister in 2014 he was responsible for the Gaza Reconstruction. During his tenure in PIF, he has attracted over $1.2 billion USD of foreign investment into Palestine, creating ~75,000 jobs. He also been an economic adviser to the Saudi Public Investment Fund (PIF) and Kuwaiti Government.
Apparently this is an attempt against the current international moves to impose a new government on Palestine (which I believe is unrelated to Israel's moves to outright install a colonial government).
posted by cendawanita at 5:35 PM on February 25 [3 favorites]
The vast majority of Israelis carrying out this genocide aren't professional soldiers, nor hot-blooded kids straight out of school, but rather normal, average Israeli adults
That tweet is noting this on yet another tone-deaf/stomach-turning photo of soldiers documenting for war crimes not for sport but because to them this is victorious, so in case this is helpful to share, CNN filed a report just before last week: Israeli soldier films himself blowing up a mosque - CNN's Jeremy Diamond reports on an unfolding trend on social media, where IDF soldiers are posting their military offensive in real time.
posted by cendawanita at 6:11 PM on February 25 [3 favorites]
That tweet is noting this on yet another tone-deaf/stomach-turning photo of soldiers documenting for war crimes not for sport but because to them this is victorious, so in case this is helpful to share, CNN filed a report just before last week: Israeli soldier films himself blowing up a mosque - CNN's Jeremy Diamond reports on an unfolding trend on social media, where IDF soldiers are posting their military offensive in real time.
posted by cendawanita at 6:11 PM on February 25 [3 favorites]
Also: Reporters for The New York Times and Wall Street Journal Who Authored Incendiary Stories Have Ties to Israeli Propaganda Efforts
Ryan Grim: Multiple NYT sources tell me that the paper is now cutting ties with Anat Schwarz after her social media history — “turn Gaza into a slaughterhouse” — was exposed. Her explosive article shaped public understanding of 10/7 yet the team at The Daily has still been unable to produce an episode based on it, after producers found it full of holes.
The Intercept is expecting to post their story today/tomorrow.
posted by cendawanita at 6:36 PM on February 25 [6 favorites]
Ryan Grim: Multiple NYT sources tell me that the paper is now cutting ties with Anat Schwarz after her social media history — “turn Gaza into a slaughterhouse” — was exposed. Her explosive article shaped public understanding of 10/7 yet the team at The Daily has still been unable to produce an episode based on it, after producers found it full of holes.
The Intercept is expecting to post their story today/tomorrow.
posted by cendawanita at 6:36 PM on February 25 [6 favorites]
From Task & Purpose: Law enforcement also drew a gun on the burning man during the incident, while he was screaming in pain.
This is America.
posted by away for regrooving at 9:18 PM on February 25 [8 favorites]
This is America.
posted by away for regrooving at 9:18 PM on February 25 [8 favorites]
Talia Jane, who broke the story, is reporting on Twitter that his name was Aaron Bushnell and that he has died. A BLURRED version of the footage is also posted there.
News coverage of the self-immolation is largely obscuring the fact that it was a pro-Palestine protest, omitting it from heds & deks and only getting around to it it several paragraphs into articles. The NYT originally didn't mention it at all, only adding the info several hours later.
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:34 PM on February 25 [3 favorites]
News coverage of the self-immolation is largely obscuring the fact that it was a pro-Palestine protest, omitting it from heds & deks and only getting around to it it several paragraphs into articles. The NYT originally didn't mention it at all, only adding the info several hours later.
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:34 PM on February 25 [3 favorites]
Shockingly, the New York Post appears to be one of the only outlets reporting that he did it as a protest against genocide.
posted by corb at 11:43 AM on February 26
posted by corb at 11:43 AM on February 26
Fox News also reported it as a protest against what's happening in Gaza (although they didn't use the word "genocide") -- presumably because they think coverage will hurt Democrats.
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:31 PM on February 26
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:31 PM on February 26
>Yeah like I don't really grok what this means fundamentally - I'm better suited at grasping their utility once people are involved. So the politics of it, which I've covered before.
My reading of the politics of it is that we live in an interconnected world, so it's an economic lens, it's a term called comparative advantage. Israel has expertise in defending against terror threats like cross border rocket attacks with its Iron Dome system, and many countries have realised they could be extremely vulnerable to such attacks from outside their borders. Several countries around the world have purchased the Iron Dome system from Israel, some publicly announced, others in secret. Singapore is credibly assumed to posses at least two Iron Dome systems, as Iron Dome radar hardware was spotted in a Singaporean military exercise in 2016.
In economic terms, more advanced countries like the US or Israel would be better at building BOTH low tech and high tech products. But this doesn't mean they can't gain from trade. Any diversion of resource towards building low tech products means a reduction in production of high tech products. The optimal solution is for advanced countries to build high tech products, and trade with less advanced countries for their low tech products.
This is why the US produces high tech products like stealth fighter jets but is unable (in the short run) to produce low tech products like artillery shells. This is the same issue in Israel.
Yes, in the short run, lower tech countries could hurt Israel by refusing to trade with them. But it's not like Israel (or the US) is fundamentally incapable of building artillery shells. It would just take a few years to stand up those factories - there's one coming online soon in the US to mass produce shells, and as you mentioned, one in Israel too. And, like you mentioned, a stick with enough forward momentum will do the job. While on the other hand, Singapore is fundamentally incapable of building an Iron Dome system, not at least for a long time. So it's the less advanced countries that have more to lose by cutting off trade. Countries may announce such measures as a short term PR exercise, but in the long term the gains from trade are too critical to give up. You can see how cautiously Singapore is treading in this sensitive matter as it relates directly to their own national security.
>Let me ask you: how would a Hamas fighter and a rave partygoer look similar enough to kill?
This is what the FLIR scope on a modern attack helicopter or tank looks like. Video is of anti-insurgent strike in Iraq, 2007. I wouldn't be able to tell a Hamas fighter and rave partygoer apart in a group of 5 or 6. FLIR is used even in daytime as it provides much better contrast compared to a raw optical system at high zoom levels for the 3km range of their 30mm cannons.
We did (several threads ago) discuss interviews with first responder reservists who said Hamas fighters were wearing civilian clothes and deliberately blending in with civilians by walking unhurriedly from building to building. Further back in the past there have been cases where Hamas fighters committed stabbing attacks while wearing Press jackets. There is a reason these things are... frowned upon, because doing this puts the civilian population at risk.
For reference, something like 23% of US casualties and 77% of vehicle losses during the Gulf War were to friendly fire, and that's with a military that is supposedly in direct contact with their own units and with obvious uniforms and vehicles that identify them as friendly. You're putting out a huge volume of fire and your friendly units are closer to you than the enemy, some is bound to miss. Put random civilians in a warzone and I'm not surprised by clear incidents of friendly fire. Heck, even in Gaza, the single biggest civilian loss of life by far (471 killed at Al-Ahli hospital) was friendly fire from their own rocket, based on physical evidence left at the site. Associated Press did an investigation in a prior round of fighting, of a number of alleged bomb sites they investigated they found about 1/3 of the casualties in Gaza were likely caused by their own rockets falling short. I've posted the links to all these before and I can't dig them up right now where I am.
The IDF would prefer to fight Hamas in an open field, away from any civilians, but Hamas isn't too keen on coming out of hiding. Given the choice of fighting Hamas in their own towns (putting Israeli civilians at risk) the next time they cross the border vs fighting Hamas in Gaza today (and putting Palestinians at risk) they've obviously chosen to take the fight to Gaza.
posted by xdvesper at 7:09 PM on February 26
My reading of the politics of it is that we live in an interconnected world, so it's an economic lens, it's a term called comparative advantage. Israel has expertise in defending against terror threats like cross border rocket attacks with its Iron Dome system, and many countries have realised they could be extremely vulnerable to such attacks from outside their borders. Several countries around the world have purchased the Iron Dome system from Israel, some publicly announced, others in secret. Singapore is credibly assumed to posses at least two Iron Dome systems, as Iron Dome radar hardware was spotted in a Singaporean military exercise in 2016.
In economic terms, more advanced countries like the US or Israel would be better at building BOTH low tech and high tech products. But this doesn't mean they can't gain from trade. Any diversion of resource towards building low tech products means a reduction in production of high tech products. The optimal solution is for advanced countries to build high tech products, and trade with less advanced countries for their low tech products.
This is why the US produces high tech products like stealth fighter jets but is unable (in the short run) to produce low tech products like artillery shells. This is the same issue in Israel.
Yes, in the short run, lower tech countries could hurt Israel by refusing to trade with them. But it's not like Israel (or the US) is fundamentally incapable of building artillery shells. It would just take a few years to stand up those factories - there's one coming online soon in the US to mass produce shells, and as you mentioned, one in Israel too. And, like you mentioned, a stick with enough forward momentum will do the job. While on the other hand, Singapore is fundamentally incapable of building an Iron Dome system, not at least for a long time. So it's the less advanced countries that have more to lose by cutting off trade. Countries may announce such measures as a short term PR exercise, but in the long term the gains from trade are too critical to give up. You can see how cautiously Singapore is treading in this sensitive matter as it relates directly to their own national security.
>Let me ask you: how would a Hamas fighter and a rave partygoer look similar enough to kill?
This is what the FLIR scope on a modern attack helicopter or tank looks like. Video is of anti-insurgent strike in Iraq, 2007. I wouldn't be able to tell a Hamas fighter and rave partygoer apart in a group of 5 or 6. FLIR is used even in daytime as it provides much better contrast compared to a raw optical system at high zoom levels for the 3km range of their 30mm cannons.
We did (several threads ago) discuss interviews with first responder reservists who said Hamas fighters were wearing civilian clothes and deliberately blending in with civilians by walking unhurriedly from building to building. Further back in the past there have been cases where Hamas fighters committed stabbing attacks while wearing Press jackets. There is a reason these things are... frowned upon, because doing this puts the civilian population at risk.
For reference, something like 23% of US casualties and 77% of vehicle losses during the Gulf War were to friendly fire, and that's with a military that is supposedly in direct contact with their own units and with obvious uniforms and vehicles that identify them as friendly. You're putting out a huge volume of fire and your friendly units are closer to you than the enemy, some is bound to miss. Put random civilians in a warzone and I'm not surprised by clear incidents of friendly fire. Heck, even in Gaza, the single biggest civilian loss of life by far (471 killed at Al-Ahli hospital) was friendly fire from their own rocket, based on physical evidence left at the site. Associated Press did an investigation in a prior round of fighting, of a number of alleged bomb sites they investigated they found about 1/3 of the casualties in Gaza were likely caused by their own rockets falling short. I've posted the links to all these before and I can't dig them up right now where I am.
The IDF would prefer to fight Hamas in an open field, away from any civilians, but Hamas isn't too keen on coming out of hiding. Given the choice of fighting Hamas in their own towns (putting Israeli civilians at risk) the next time they cross the border vs fighting Hamas in Gaza today (and putting Palestinians at risk) they've obviously chosen to take the fight to Gaza.
posted by xdvesper at 7:09 PM on February 26
The shaun video essay is good. At 2x speed it’s not even that much time. Thanks phigmov.
posted by R343L at 8:26 PM on February 26 [3 favorites]
posted by R343L at 8:26 PM on February 26 [3 favorites]
Further back in the past there have been cases where Hamas fighters committed stabbing attacks while wearing Press jackets.
There is a reason these things are... frowned upon, because doing this puts the civilian population at risk.
The IDF regularly firing on obvious members of the press is what puts the civilian population at risk. Journalists are not responsible for the fears of the IDF. The IDF's unwillingness to accept any level of risk to themselves does not actually justify regularly targeting the press or civilians.
Also the small matter of, if it's stabbings they're worried about, why is it always sniper rounds at range that kill the journalists?
If the journalists were dying from cop-style, panicked, "I was in genuine fear for my life" incidents then this argument might hold up somewhat better.
As for the FLIR nonsense: choosing to use weapons and tools that make it impossible to distinguish between civilians and combatants is not the magic excuse you think it is. It's just choosing not to care about the innocent people you'll kill.
Sure, I'm sure shooting people from three kilometres away has a lot of advantages, but if that distance- again, IDF unwillingness to accept that they might encounter any dangers while prosecuting their assaults against the citizens of a territory they control the borders of - if that distance does actually make it impossible to tell if you're firing at a legitimate target, or your *own* citizens, your own cordon of civilian human shields, then perhaps that ought to be a factor when deciding to use that method.
posted by Audreynachrome at 9:05 PM on February 26 [13 favorites]
There is a reason these things are... frowned upon, because doing this puts the civilian population at risk.
The IDF regularly firing on obvious members of the press is what puts the civilian population at risk. Journalists are not responsible for the fears of the IDF. The IDF's unwillingness to accept any level of risk to themselves does not actually justify regularly targeting the press or civilians.
Also the small matter of, if it's stabbings they're worried about, why is it always sniper rounds at range that kill the journalists?
If the journalists were dying from cop-style, panicked, "I was in genuine fear for my life" incidents then this argument might hold up somewhat better.
As for the FLIR nonsense: choosing to use weapons and tools that make it impossible to distinguish between civilians and combatants is not the magic excuse you think it is. It's just choosing not to care about the innocent people you'll kill.
Sure, I'm sure shooting people from three kilometres away has a lot of advantages, but if that distance- again, IDF unwillingness to accept that they might encounter any dangers while prosecuting their assaults against the citizens of a territory they control the borders of - if that distance does actually make it impossible to tell if you're firing at a legitimate target, or your *own* citizens, your own cordon of civilian human shields, then perhaps that ought to be a factor when deciding to use that method.
posted by Audreynachrome at 9:05 PM on February 26 [13 favorites]
I wouldn't be able to tell a Hamas fighter and rave partygoer apart in a group of 5 or 6.
And
We did (several threads ago) discuss interviews with first responder reservists who said Hamas fighters were wearing civilian clothes and deliberately blending in with civilians by walking unhurriedly from building to building
Do you guys want me to copy and paste photos from the articles as well next time? Ofek was wearing an unbuttoned loose white shirt (so basically concert "shirtless"), black board shorts and black leatherlike sneakers and thin ankle socks. He's also clean-shaven (with moustache) and bald and wearing those rave beaded necklaces. I repeat my question.
posted by cendawanita at 11:14 PM on February 26 [9 favorites]
And
We did (several threads ago) discuss interviews with first responder reservists who said Hamas fighters were wearing civilian clothes and deliberately blending in with civilians by walking unhurriedly from building to building
Do you guys want me to copy and paste photos from the articles as well next time? Ofek was wearing an unbuttoned loose white shirt (so basically concert "shirtless"), black board shorts and black leatherlike sneakers and thin ankle socks. He's also clean-shaven (with moustache) and bald and wearing those rave beaded necklaces. I repeat my question.
posted by cendawanita at 11:14 PM on February 26 [9 favorites]
It may have been covered in an earlier threat, but has anyone answered the realpolitik question, “What value, if any, does the relationship with Israel provide the US?” I’ve been following and reading about the I/P issue for 40 years and it seems like it’s just that we still feel bad about the Holocaust and have involvement in Israel’s founding. I’m firmly of the opinion that we should treat them like any other country, evangelists be damned. That’s the only way we can salvage some sense of legitimacy with the rest of the world and with players in the Middle East. I know there’s a strong pro-Israel lobby here, but this is like letting Cuban immigrants dictate broader Cuba policy.
posted by caviar2d2 at 9:16 AM on February 27 [3 favorites]
posted by caviar2d2 at 9:16 AM on February 27 [3 favorites]
caviar2d2, have you ever read Mearsheimer and Walt's The Israel Lobby? It illustrates pretty well, I think, that the value of the relationship never gets decided on a national level, but always on the level of individual legislators and spokespeople who can be rewarded or punished by the lobby.
posted by mittens at 10:51 AM on February 27 [3 favorites]
posted by mittens at 10:51 AM on February 27 [3 favorites]
Israel has no interest in a Palestinian state.
You will die, your children will die, your grandchildren will die - there won't be a Palestinian state, there will never be," Knesset member Hanoch Milbitsky shouted at Arab member Ayman Odeh following the voting regarding the possible recognition of a Palestinian state, which was refused by 99 out of 120 members.
posted by adamvasco at 1:32 PM on February 27 [5 favorites]
You will die, your children will die, your grandchildren will die - there won't be a Palestinian state, there will never be," Knesset member Hanoch Milbitsky shouted at Arab member Ayman Odeh following the voting regarding the possible recognition of a Palestinian state, which was refused by 99 out of 120 members.
posted by adamvasco at 1:32 PM on February 27 [5 favorites]
Meanwhile, Israeli settlers have started plowing & planting INSIDE Gaza, presumably hoping that their blatant land theft will be treated as a fait accompli later.
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:48 PM on February 27 [9 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:48 PM on February 27 [9 favorites]
and have involvement in Israel’s founding.
The US’ involvement in the establishment of Israel was actually really low.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 3:24 PM on February 27 [3 favorites]
The US’ involvement in the establishment of Israel was actually really low.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 3:24 PM on February 27 [3 favorites]
Ralph Wilde on behalf of the Arab league yesterday on the last day of the ICJ hearing:
Opening statement.
The Palestinian people have been denied the exercise of their legal right to self-determination through the more than century long violent, colonial racist effort to establish a nation state exclusively for the Jewish people in the land of mandatory Palestine,"
posted by adamvasco at 5:22 PM on February 27 [1 favorite]
Opening statement.
The Palestinian people have been denied the exercise of their legal right to self-determination through the more than century long violent, colonial racist effort to establish a nation state exclusively for the Jewish people in the land of mandatory Palestine,"
posted by adamvasco at 5:22 PM on February 27 [1 favorite]
I haven't read the Israel Lobby, but I'd give a quick shout to that submission from the Arab League, where the meat of the argument is about the illegality of the occupation to be sure but he started with all the way back by the betrayal of the rights to self-determination from way back to the Versailles Treaty, which is definitely a choice (and an interesting one imo), though he doesn't get into detail where the US came in. Certainly the US isn't involved in the establishment of Israel at that point, but the symbiotic relationship as it were cemented itself in the era of Israel's official founding years (I believe it was under Truman when the foreign policy is made to support Israel as a strategic western outpost; it's worth pointing out Soviet Union did similar calculations as well hence the credit of being the first iirc to recognise the state) so technically a case can still be made of the US involvement here. But essentially WW2 sympathies (which are valid) drove a lot of the major powers' support as the international order was set up - and yet even as the UN recognised a need to partition, major powers' support (driven by domestic considerations - I think it's been stated bluntly that for the US, it's got a big Jewish constituent at the time versus an Arab one, and probably would've stayed that way if not for subsequent regional instability) made even those plans unfeasible by realpolitik force.
But another development I do believe came after the Lebanon war in the 1980s with the establishment of AIPAC, and I'm basing that thought from this 2018 Wapo piece. That development is the critical piece to explain the political energy we see now imo.
posted by cendawanita at 6:30 PM on February 27 [3 favorites]
But another development I do believe came after the Lebanon war in the 1980s with the establishment of AIPAC, and I'm basing that thought from this 2018 Wapo piece. That development is the critical piece to explain the political energy we see now imo.
posted by cendawanita at 6:30 PM on February 27 [3 favorites]
Posting this here because I thought someone else would have by now to confirm this story as verified.
This is new for me, in terms of North American behavior, and I reference this news outlet because it signals to me that western world media beyond North America is treating this story as verified (Al Jazeera coverage also keenly appreciated). Maybe it's just me and I'm better off keeping my mouth shut and keyboard silenced because there are so many with such better english than me to say anything... but this is so new for me... what a waste of life, to see someone no matter their ethnicity or country in the prime of their youth feel driven to this, to spend the best of their gifts on this... I just personally never expected to see it done by a Euro-Settler in North America... meanwhile north of the border the press is remarkably silent on this... and probably it generally is, for some Canadians too share with some Americans a powerful preference for self-gratifying narratives to remain absolutely undisturbed, IME... Anyhow, for me, that no one has posted it here, I'll take a chance. I couldn't ignore when Bouazizi did it either. I may be useless and ineffective from where no community planner will ever acknowledge I show up here in the West, but I do keep watching with eyes open. Even if I don't know these people, I am ready to explain their stories to the next generation whenever the next generation wants to know, so what happened as we went wrong? And while I'm at it, thank you metafilter community and mods for working together well enough to simply keep this thread(series) alive. I hear you that we are failing our upcoming generations on all sides, RIP Aaron Bushnell.
posted by human ecologist at 7:10 PM on February 27 [4 favorites]
This is new for me, in terms of North American behavior, and I reference this news outlet because it signals to me that western world media beyond North America is treating this story as verified (Al Jazeera coverage also keenly appreciated). Maybe it's just me and I'm better off keeping my mouth shut and keyboard silenced because there are so many with such better english than me to say anything... but this is so new for me... what a waste of life, to see someone no matter their ethnicity or country in the prime of their youth feel driven to this, to spend the best of their gifts on this... I just personally never expected to see it done by a Euro-Settler in North America... meanwhile north of the border the press is remarkably silent on this... and probably it generally is, for some Canadians too share with some Americans a powerful preference for self-gratifying narratives to remain absolutely undisturbed, IME... Anyhow, for me, that no one has posted it here, I'll take a chance. I couldn't ignore when Bouazizi did it either. I may be useless and ineffective from where no community planner will ever acknowledge I show up here in the West, but I do keep watching with eyes open. Even if I don't know these people, I am ready to explain their stories to the next generation whenever the next generation wants to know, so what happened as we went wrong? And while I'm at it, thank you metafilter community and mods for working together well enough to simply keep this thread(series) alive. I hear you that we are failing our upcoming generations on all sides, RIP Aaron Bushnell.
posted by human ecologist at 7:10 PM on February 27 [4 favorites]
human ecologist:
Yeah, there are a couple comments about Bushnell above, and there's also a separate MeFi thread about him. <3
posted by adrienneleigh at 7:50 PM on February 27 [2 favorites]
Yeah, there are a couple comments about Bushnell above, and there's also a separate MeFi thread about him. <3
posted by adrienneleigh at 7:50 PM on February 27 [2 favorites]
An interview with a teenager who was beaten and tortured by Israeli soldiers and who is physically in pretty bad shape.
I'm not sure if it's just an artifact of what's getting to the western internet, but I feel like the IDF has been emboldened and is hurting people more and worse as this goes on, as inhibitions are broken, it becomes clear that anything goes and they start to use their imaginations.
Out of all the many ways that this is terrible and monstrous, it's also terrible and monstrous because both locally and globally it normalizes the explicit torture of civilians.
posted by Frowner at 5:38 AM on February 28 [10 favorites]
I'm not sure if it's just an artifact of what's getting to the western internet, but I feel like the IDF has been emboldened and is hurting people more and worse as this goes on, as inhibitions are broken, it becomes clear that anything goes and they start to use their imaginations.
Out of all the many ways that this is terrible and monstrous, it's also terrible and monstrous because both locally and globally it normalizes the explicit torture of civilians.
posted by Frowner at 5:38 AM on February 28 [10 favorites]
The Intercept is expecting to post their story today/tomorrow
Ok finally out, which is more about the newsroom failure: “Between the Hammer and the Anvil” - The Story Behind the New York Times October 7 Exposé
(Daily Beast came out with an earlier story too: New York Times ‘Reviewing’ Reporter Who Liked Gaza ‘Slaughterhouse’ Tweet)
Related:
Broadcast journalists send open letter calling for foreign media access to Gaza - The broadcasters represented are Sky News, the BBC, ITV, Channel 4, CNN, ABC, NBC, and CBS.
(The Intercept) American Media Keep Citing Zaka — Though Its October 7 Atrocity Stories Are Discredited in Israel - Israeli media has debunked the ultra-Orthodox group’s stories, but the New York Times won’t say so.
Maher Arar: How The Media Misled The Public About Who Was Behind The Attack On Al-Ahli Hospital - this is a commentary and compilation of data-driven debunking so far.
Jonathan Cook: Feeble BBC Hamas ‘exposé’ achieved one thing: obscuring genocide
Hope Not Hate: Revealed: The Shocking Tweets of GB News Co-owner Sir Paul Marshall
(Guardian) Antoinette Lattouf escalates legal battle against ABC [Australian Broadcasting Corporation]with new federal court claim - Journalist is suing broadcaster for allegedly ‘sacking her without a proper basis and without due process’, adding to existing claim at Fair Work Commission - she was fired for sharing a post from Human Rights Watch about the starvation in Gaza. Australia is quite wild right now because throughout all the charges of antisemitism (including one that had a chant allegedly caught on video but turned out to be false) the chat group of folks who were looking to professionally sanction pro-Palestinian voices and even dox them was exposed, so now they've been claiming they have been doxed. I can't quite track the chronology so I'll just leave this statement from the Jewish Council Australia here.
posted by cendawanita at 12:34 AM on February 29 [6 favorites]
Ok finally out, which is more about the newsroom failure: “Between the Hammer and the Anvil” - The Story Behind the New York Times October 7 Exposé
(Daily Beast came out with an earlier story too: New York Times ‘Reviewing’ Reporter Who Liked Gaza ‘Slaughterhouse’ Tweet)
Related:
Broadcast journalists send open letter calling for foreign media access to Gaza - The broadcasters represented are Sky News, the BBC, ITV, Channel 4, CNN, ABC, NBC, and CBS.
(The Intercept) American Media Keep Citing Zaka — Though Its October 7 Atrocity Stories Are Discredited in Israel - Israeli media has debunked the ultra-Orthodox group’s stories, but the New York Times won’t say so.
Maher Arar: How The Media Misled The Public About Who Was Behind The Attack On Al-Ahli Hospital - this is a commentary and compilation of data-driven debunking so far.
Jonathan Cook: Feeble BBC Hamas ‘exposé’ achieved one thing: obscuring genocide
Hope Not Hate: Revealed: The Shocking Tweets of GB News Co-owner Sir Paul Marshall
(Guardian) Antoinette Lattouf escalates legal battle against ABC [Australian Broadcasting Corporation]with new federal court claim - Journalist is suing broadcaster for allegedly ‘sacking her without a proper basis and without due process’, adding to existing claim at Fair Work Commission - she was fired for sharing a post from Human Rights Watch about the starvation in Gaza. Australia is quite wild right now because throughout all the charges of antisemitism (including one that had a chant allegedly caught on video but turned out to be false) the chat group of folks who were looking to professionally sanction pro-Palestinian voices and even dox them was exposed, so now they've been claiming they have been doxed. I can't quite track the chronology so I'll just leave this statement from the Jewish Council Australia here.
posted by cendawanita at 12:34 AM on February 29 [6 favorites]
Palestinian Foreign Ministry: Aid-seekers killed ‘in cold blood’ (Al-Jazeera):
As the death toll from this morning’s attack on Palestinian aid-seekers in Gaza mounts, the Palestinian Foreign Ministry has condemned what it says was a cold-blooded “massacre” of civilians.
At least 70 Palestinians were killed and 250 wounded when Israeli forces fired on people waiting for food trucks near Gaza City.
In a press statement, the ministry said the attack was part of Israel’s ongoing “genocidal war”. It called on the international community to “urgently intervene” to forge a ceasefire as “the only way to protect civilians”.
“As the Israeli military opened fire on the aid seekers, Israeli tanks advanced and ran over many of the dead and injured bodies in the south-western parts of Gaza City. It is a massacre, on top of the starvation threatening citizens in Gaza.”posted by kmt at 1:34 AM on February 29 [7 favorites]
Missed sharing this Senator piece in my journalism news roundup: Pro-Israel group targets Post reporter -
SKDK, the Washington, D.C. public relations firm with close ties to President Joe Biden’s White House, has been running communications for the 10/7 Project, a consortium of five Jewish organizations founded last year to promote “continued US support for Israel and counter misinformation about the Israel/Hamas war.” Over the past several months, that work has largely consisted of sharing daily memos to journalists pointing out what the group sees as flaws in coverage, such as what it sees as under-coverage of Hamas’ sexual assaults of Israeli hostages taken on 10/7 and failures to acknowledge the US government’s assessment that Hamas had a military presence at the Al-Shifa hospital.
But it also has been keeping tabs on reporters that it felt were reporting and tweeting unfairly about Israel, and putting pressure on major national news organizations to punish or remove these reporters from the beat. In particular, the group has singled out the Washington Post and its foreign correspondent Louisa Loveluck, who has covered the war in Gaza with an emphasis on Palestinian civilians impacted by the violence.
All this is worth keeping in mind when thinking about years if not decades of minimization.
posted by cendawanita at 1:56 AM on February 29 [11 favorites]
SKDK, the Washington, D.C. public relations firm with close ties to President Joe Biden’s White House, has been running communications for the 10/7 Project, a consortium of five Jewish organizations founded last year to promote “continued US support for Israel and counter misinformation about the Israel/Hamas war.” Over the past several months, that work has largely consisted of sharing daily memos to journalists pointing out what the group sees as flaws in coverage, such as what it sees as under-coverage of Hamas’ sexual assaults of Israeli hostages taken on 10/7 and failures to acknowledge the US government’s assessment that Hamas had a military presence at the Al-Shifa hospital.
But it also has been keeping tabs on reporters that it felt were reporting and tweeting unfairly about Israel, and putting pressure on major national news organizations to punish or remove these reporters from the beat. In particular, the group has singled out the Washington Post and its foreign correspondent Louisa Loveluck, who has covered the war in Gaza with an emphasis on Palestinian civilians impacted by the violence.
All this is worth keeping in mind when thinking about years if not decades of minimization.
posted by cendawanita at 1:56 AM on February 29 [11 favorites]
All this is worth keeping in mind when thinking about years if not decades of minimization.
I think it's worth understanding minimization as a tactic, not an accident or misunderstanding.
All my adult life, I've seen this arc that goes: people point out that something is a bad idea and/or very unjust, the establishment on all sides denies this and says people are overreacting or making an unfairly bad interpretation, the establishment makes money and shores up the status quo doing the bad thing, the bad stuff comes to pass as anyone could see it would and then the establishment, when it is too late, is astonished that things went wrong. And because the are saying "oooooh, this is terrrrrrrrible, how could this have happened", they are fending off culpability.
Because of their disavowal, we're supposed to believe that they just had no idea that bad things would happen, instead of deciding that the bad things would happen (to others) but were worth it (to them because it would make them rich and powerful). Their whole goal is to keep us quiet until it's too late.
The establishment* isn't any stupider than the rest of us. They can see that, eg, it's always been that there were ten to twenty Palestinians killed in response to every attack on an Israeli, that Palestinians deserved to be able to go abroad for medical treatment but weren't allowed, that coverage of Israel was largely determined by AIPAC, etc. But you were weird or impolite or crazy if you brought it up. Now, when it's too late and god knows how many Palestinians have been tortured and slaughtered, it becomes politically useful to admit what was known all along.
*And I never saw how useful that word is, because it captures all political alignments
posted by Frowner at 4:25 AM on February 29 [10 favorites]
I think it's worth understanding minimization as a tactic, not an accident or misunderstanding.
All my adult life, I've seen this arc that goes: people point out that something is a bad idea and/or very unjust, the establishment on all sides denies this and says people are overreacting or making an unfairly bad interpretation, the establishment makes money and shores up the status quo doing the bad thing, the bad stuff comes to pass as anyone could see it would and then the establishment, when it is too late, is astonished that things went wrong. And because the are saying "oooooh, this is terrrrrrrrible, how could this have happened", they are fending off culpability.
Because of their disavowal, we're supposed to believe that they just had no idea that bad things would happen, instead of deciding that the bad things would happen (to others) but were worth it (to them because it would make them rich and powerful). Their whole goal is to keep us quiet until it's too late.
The establishment* isn't any stupider than the rest of us. They can see that, eg, it's always been that there were ten to twenty Palestinians killed in response to every attack on an Israeli, that Palestinians deserved to be able to go abroad for medical treatment but weren't allowed, that coverage of Israel was largely determined by AIPAC, etc. But you were weird or impolite or crazy if you brought it up. Now, when it's too late and god knows how many Palestinians have been tortured and slaughtered, it becomes politically useful to admit what was known all along.
*And I never saw how useful that word is, because it captures all political alignments
posted by Frowner at 4:25 AM on February 29 [10 favorites]
Apparently Israeli forces just carried out a massacre of starving Palestinians trying to get food: AP
Israeli troops fired on a crowd of Palestinians waiting for aid in Gaza City on Thursday, witnesses said. More than 100 people were killed, bringing the death toll since the start of the Israel-Hamas war to more than 30,000, according to health officials.posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 6:51 AM on February 29 [7 favorites]
Hospital officials initially reported an Israeli strike on the crowd, but witnesses later said Israeli troops opened fire as people pulled flour and canned goods off of trucks.
A couple of videos: this Democracy Now segment that specifically talks about the aid massacre within the context of the larger and ongoing starvation campaign - just before the massacre the Israeli official accounts and also Barak Ravid (of Axios and on the WH/Tel Aviv beat) reporting were clearly on an angle that presents airdrops as a clear good thing, even if humanitarian experts were pointing out the ineffectiveness of those compared to trucks and how these are usually deployed in times of absolute last resort. In any case I mention this because as mentioned in the video interview even these aid packages later gets attacked or shot down by IDF themselves. The interview is with UN special rapporteur on the right to food Michael Fakhri, who also gave an interview to Guardian only three days ago: Israel is deliberately starving Palestinians, UN rights expert says . Some of the tweets I've seen have been reports of children being shot/struck in the sea as they were swimming to get the aid packages (faulty nav has been provided as a reason but ppl noticed packages are sent to the south instead of the north and vice versa as well) or white phosphorus bombs striking the airdropped package before it can be get to. These are tweets I've seen before today.
The other video is the head of NRC speaking to Christiane Amanpour speaking about the level of unimagined devastation in Gaza, now that he could see it for himself.
(Of course if you don't have Tiktok like me, Al-Jazeera has managed to commission Bisan to file regular reports, the most recent ones are: "This is Bisan from Gaza, and we are living next to garbage"; and "this is Bisan from Gaza, and it's getting harder to share videos")
From @ireallyhateyou: One of several Israeli Telegram channels dedicated to rejoicing over Palestinian death:
"First footage of the blessed massacre. You can see clearly, they're fighting for their lives, for survival. Cannibalism is on the way! We must starve them until the long-awaited cannibalism!"
Which brings me to this 2021 Chicago Journal of International Law article just shared from Adil Haque, who described it as prescient: Siege Starvation: A War Crime of Societal Torture, and how this (desperation causing breakage in social bonds) is being recognised as a method of warfare.
...then the establishment, when it is too late, is astonished that things went wrong. And because the are saying "oooooh, this is terrrrrrrrible, how could this have happened", they are fending off culpability
We are definitely at the "mistakes were made" stage of this genocide speedrun, Zack Beauchamp posted a Vox reporting (mea culpa?) sometime last week: How Israel’s war went wrong.
posted by cendawanita at 10:17 AM on February 29 [12 favorites]
The other video is the head of NRC speaking to Christiane Amanpour speaking about the level of unimagined devastation in Gaza, now that he could see it for himself.
(Of course if you don't have Tiktok like me, Al-Jazeera has managed to commission Bisan to file regular reports, the most recent ones are: "This is Bisan from Gaza, and we are living next to garbage"; and "this is Bisan from Gaza, and it's getting harder to share videos")
From @ireallyhateyou: One of several Israeli Telegram channels dedicated to rejoicing over Palestinian death:
"First footage of the blessed massacre. You can see clearly, they're fighting for their lives, for survival. Cannibalism is on the way! We must starve them until the long-awaited cannibalism!"
Which brings me to this 2021 Chicago Journal of International Law article just shared from Adil Haque, who described it as prescient: Siege Starvation: A War Crime of Societal Torture, and how this (desperation causing breakage in social bonds) is being recognised as a method of warfare.
...then the establishment, when it is too late, is astonished that things went wrong. And because the are saying "oooooh, this is terrrrrrrrible, how could this have happened", they are fending off culpability
We are definitely at the "mistakes were made" stage of this genocide speedrun, Zack Beauchamp posted a Vox reporting (mea culpa?) sometime last week: How Israel’s war went wrong.
posted by cendawanita at 10:17 AM on February 29 [12 favorites]
Per this statement by International Centre of Justice Palestine and other posts I've seen, locals are now calling it the "Flour Bag Massacre".
We are five months into this.
posted by cendawanita at 10:53 AM on February 29 [9 favorites]
We are five months into this.
posted by cendawanita at 10:53 AM on February 29 [9 favorites]
Ok I swear I'll go to sleep after this:
Eli Valley: Biden is unilaterally forfeiting the presidency for this:
He's QT-ing Ben-Gvir: [gtranslate] Total support must be given to our heroic fighters operating in Gaza, who acted excellently against a Gazan mob that tried to harm them. Today it was proven that the transfer of humanitarian aid to Gaza is not only madness while our abductees are being held in the Strip under substandard conditions, but also endangers the IDF soldiers. This is another clear reason why we must stop transferring this aid, which is in fact aid to harm the IDF soldiers and oxygen to Hamas
Anyway, just in: (NBC) Washington state’s largest labor union endorses ‘uncommitted’ over Biden (ICYMI "uncommitted" was on the ballot for the Michigan primary and it collected upwards of 100k votes)
posted by cendawanita at 11:00 AM on February 29 [8 favorites]
Eli Valley: Biden is unilaterally forfeiting the presidency for this:
He's QT-ing Ben-Gvir: [gtranslate] Total support must be given to our heroic fighters operating in Gaza, who acted excellently against a Gazan mob that tried to harm them. Today it was proven that the transfer of humanitarian aid to Gaza is not only madness while our abductees are being held in the Strip under substandard conditions, but also endangers the IDF soldiers. This is another clear reason why we must stop transferring this aid, which is in fact aid to harm the IDF soldiers and oxygen to Hamas
Anyway, just in: (NBC) Washington state’s largest labor union endorses ‘uncommitted’ over Biden (ICYMI "uncommitted" was on the ballot for the Michigan primary and it collected upwards of 100k votes)
posted by cendawanita at 11:00 AM on February 29 [8 favorites]
Colorado now has an uncommitted campaign (Axios)
And Minnesota (Sahan Journal)
posted by tofu_crouton at 11:04 AM on February 29 [10 favorites]
And Minnesota (Sahan Journal)
posted by tofu_crouton at 11:04 AM on February 29 [10 favorites]
A thread worth reading
And all this time part of me keeps thinking: this is what white colonialism is doing in 2024, when almost everything is recorded and watched worldwide, and after The Holocaust and all the beautiful conventions.
posted by adamvasco at 5:15 AM on March 1 [10 favorites]
And all this time part of me keeps thinking: this is what white colonialism is doing in 2024, when almost everything is recorded and watched worldwide, and after The Holocaust and all the beautiful conventions.
posted by adamvasco at 5:15 AM on March 1 [10 favorites]
Alon Mizrahi: If You’re Jewish And You Want To Fight Antisemitism, Here’s How You Do It:
This may sound blunt (or, alas, worse) to some people, but it is my firm belief that if you’re Jewish (like me) and you want to combat antisemitism, there is, at this crazed genocidal point, only one thing you can and should be doing, and that’s distancing yourself from Israel’s actions.posted by kmt at 6:13 AM on March 1 [10 favorites]
...
It is our responsibility before humanity.
It is our responsibility, also. before all the Jewish children who have done nothing and contributed nothing to this, and may someday be wrongfully accused of wrongdoing. Give them your name to say with pride. Save their humanity and their reputation. They don’t deserve to be associated with a mass slaughter.
(Not going to link the photo referenced below, but it's going around Twitter right now.)
"Saw a photo of the body of a man who had been zip tied before being run over by an Israeli tank. I will never get that image out of my head. I stared at it for several minutes questioning if it was even real as I couldn’t comprehend the evil required to do such a thing." (tweet)
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 10:36 AM on March 1 [4 favorites]
"Saw a photo of the body of a man who had been zip tied before being run over by an Israeli tank. I will never get that image out of my head. I stared at it for several minutes questioning if it was even real as I couldn’t comprehend the evil required to do such a thing." (tweet)
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 10:36 AM on March 1 [4 favorites]
" I couldn’t comprehend the evil required to do such a thing."
Yeah, apparently it's the IDF schtick, just google "rachel corrie pancake"
posted by kmt at 11:41 AM on March 1 [11 favorites]
Yeah, apparently it's the IDF schtick, just google "rachel corrie pancake"
posted by kmt at 11:41 AM on March 1 [11 favorites]
Not going to link the photo referenced below, but it's going around Twitter right nowI know that there’s a lot of terrible stuff going around but I would avoid giving it mindshare until it’s verified. Social media had problems with mislabeled or fake photos going around even before ML systems got so good at them, and if something turns out to be fake it’ll be used to dismiss everything else the same people share.
posted by adamsc at 12:23 PM on March 1
Twitter seems to be doing their damndest to scrub the image off of the site, which makes me think that it is real. Also the guy who shared it says he got it from Israeli telegram, which seems to be the place where these kinds of images arise from these days. The guy I saw originally share it writes for Haaretz and other reputable publications. All that said, sure, anything could be fake, but...
Here's a news story about it. (The news story does not show the photo.)
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 1:19 PM on March 1 [2 favorites]
Here's a news story about it. (The news story does not show the photo.)
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 1:19 PM on March 1 [2 favorites]
'US President Joe Biden has announced that the US will begin airdropping aid into Gaza, one day after dozens were killed scramble for supplies'
posted by clavdivs at 1:49 PM on March 1 [2 favorites]
posted by clavdivs at 1:49 PM on March 1 [2 favorites]
I know....
BTW, does anybody have a full copy of that Wall Street Journal, about Dearborn, hit piece by Steve something or another. I didn't have the full text so I started pulling the strings with good old Steve there and pulled quite a few and it led to like Dick Cheney and beyond.
posted by clavdivs at 1:53 PM on March 1
BTW, does anybody have a full copy of that Wall Street Journal, about Dearborn, hit piece by Steve something or another. I didn't have the full text so I started pulling the strings with good old Steve there and pulled quite a few and it led to like Dick Cheney and beyond.
posted by clavdivs at 1:53 PM on March 1
UN Special Rapporteur on the Occupied Palestinian Territories:
Toddler Anhar from north Gaza had puffy cheeks & bright eyes. 4.5 months of Israel assault turned him into skin & bones. He died of starvation on Tuesday.posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 2:24 PM on March 1 [9 favorites]
I can’t even begin to process the horror his parents may have gone through being unable to feed him.
Noisy Pink Bubbles: thanks - that’s a named organization with an established reputation.
posted by adamsc at 3:14 PM on March 1
posted by adamsc at 3:14 PM on March 1
Not sure if this was posted yet but found this story about internal dissension at CNN around the double standards in coverage of suffering in Gaza to be interesting (and potentially hopeful!). May have been partially spurred by Jon Stewart calling them out on labeling the murder of starving people lined up for food a "chaotic incident"? I'm glad Jon Stewart is back--he's been sane and reasonable on Palestine for a very long time in a way that practically no one else in Western media has been.
It's really sad and sobering that pretty much the only real journalism about this genocide has come from terrified, often very young people documenting their lives on the ground--like Motaz. The level of deception and journalistic malpractice involved with that New York Times article on sexual violence during October 7 is just jaw-dropping. And this is our paper of record! I think things like that are going to be taught in classes in the future.
I am continually astonished at the level of cruelty and complicity mainstream news orgs have shown over the course of this genocide.
posted by lizard2590 at 4:00 PM on March 1 [13 favorites]
It's really sad and sobering that pretty much the only real journalism about this genocide has come from terrified, often very young people documenting their lives on the ground--like Motaz. The level of deception and journalistic malpractice involved with that New York Times article on sexual violence during October 7 is just jaw-dropping. And this is our paper of record! I think things like that are going to be taught in classes in the future.
I am continually astonished at the level of cruelty and complicity mainstream news orgs have shown over the course of this genocide.
posted by lizard2590 at 4:00 PM on March 1 [13 favorites]
Air drops are inefficient, expensive, dangerous, and only helpful when there are no other delivery options. Air drops are primarily for the Biden administration’s benefit - to paper over a massive policy failure.a whole thread by Dave Harden, a former USAID & State Department official, on Twitter
Generally speaking, when the U.S. is forced to air drop food and water because another country is preventing other means of delivery, that other country is an adversary, not an allyBrandon Friedman on Twitter
posted by adrienneleigh at 6:03 PM on March 1 [12 favorites]
The US has the power to rotate a steady flotilla of cargo vessels up to the shore of Gaza. Airdropping food.is a cruel torment and a far from practical means of saving Palestinian lives. Even during the Berlin airlift they were landing the planes and not tossing crates out the back.
posted by Mitheral at 6:18 PM on March 1 [10 favorites]
posted by Mitheral at 6:18 PM on March 1 [10 favorites]
I wasn’t naive enough to think that suffering ennobles or empowers the victims of a great atrocity to act in a morally superior way. That yesterday’s victims are very likely to become today’s victimisers is the lesson of organised violence in the former Yugoslavia, Sudan, Congo, Rwanda, Sri Lanka, Afghanistan and too many other places. I was still shocked by the dark meaning the Israeli state had drawn from the Shoah, and then institutionalised in a machinery of repression. The targeted killings of Palestinians, checkpoints, home demolitions, land thefts, arbitrary and indefinite detentions, and widespread torture in prisons seemed to proclaim a pitiless national ethos: that humankind is divided into those who are strong and those who are weak, and so those who have been or expect to be victims should pre-emptively crush their perceived enemies.Pankaj Mishra, "The Shoah After Gaza" (original lecture (YT), LRB, archived)
There's so much in this piece, it's so good, i picked a single graf because otherwise i'd just paste in the whole thing.
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:41 PM on March 2 [10 favorites]
> Pankaj Mishra, "The Shoah After Gaza"
As a Kiwi of Indian descent, this caught my eye after reading the article - "Hindu trolls constitute Benjamin Netanyahu’s largest fan club in the world."
Sure enough -
* India’s Hindu Extremists Are Trolling the Israel Conflict
* India's Hindu nationalists are using the Israel-Hamas war to their advantage
* Modi government bans all expressions of solidarity with Palestine in Indian-held Kashmir
posted by phigmov at 4:14 PM on March 2 [9 favorites]
As a Kiwi of Indian descent, this caught my eye after reading the article - "Hindu trolls constitute Benjamin Netanyahu’s largest fan club in the world."
Sure enough -
* India’s Hindu Extremists Are Trolling the Israel Conflict
* India's Hindu nationalists are using the Israel-Hamas war to their advantage
* Modi government bans all expressions of solidarity with Palestine in Indian-held Kashmir
posted by phigmov at 4:14 PM on March 2 [9 favorites]
Thanks so much for sharing that Pankaj Mishra piece, adrienneleigh--I learned a lot from it and it introduced me to Primo Levi and Isaac Bashevis Singer! Learning about how Holocaust memory has evolved and how its centrality to Jewish identity is relatively new was fascinating. David ben-Gurion's contempt for Holocaust survivors was disturbing.
posted by lizard2590 at 10:17 AM on March 3 [1 favorite]
posted by lizard2590 at 10:17 AM on March 3 [1 favorite]
Apparently Israel has conducted yet another massacre on people trying to get food aid
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 4:34 PM on March 3 [3 favorites]
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 4:34 PM on March 3 [3 favorites]
What made Flour Massacre significant was the death and casualty toll, and for context before this latest one, here's a thread (threadreader) of some of the earlier incidents at the same spot.
Also, from Akbar Shahid Ahmed (the HuffPo journalist on the WH/DC BEAT): A US official familiar w/ top Biden aides' thinking tells me they expected scenarios like the flour massacre but know POTUS is "not budging" on pushing Israel in a real way despite Gaza's needs.
The result: "hard-to-do + low-yield PR stunts like air drops + portable port idea."
This person's worked in government through R + D admins. They argue Biden is "micromanaging" uniquely + US policy is shaped by a "singular" combination of unhelpful views + incompetence.
"Pushing Israel to allow food in is totally off the table" despite broad US gov frustration.
Local reports that some of the aid contains expired food (twt with pics) probably isn't going to be any meaningful redline to the international esp American body politic I guess.
Analysis from Guardian: Gaza airdrops might not be necessary if Israel faced more pressure on aid:
The US says it understands the inherent risks airdrops entail. The US national security spokesperson, John Kirby, said: “There are few military operations that are more complicated than humanitarian assistance airdrops. This is a tough military mission to do because so many parameters have to be exactly right.
“That said, I think we will learn from the first airdrops and this will be part of a sustained effort. This will not be one and done. With each one we will get better. It is very difficult, it is extremely difficult, to do airdrops in such a densely populated area as Gaza. You have to get as close as possible to the people in need but not in any way that it puts them in any danger. We fully expect the third and fourth and fifth one will not look like the first and second one. We will try to learn and improve.”
Few sentences speak more volumes about the self-imposed moral universe the west has chosen to inhabit.
A call from DAWN: United Nations: Establish International Protection Force in Gaza:
"The whole world is watching in horror as Israel is deliberately starving Palestinians, not only impeding the delivery of aid but actually firing and killing people desperately trying to obtain a few sacks of flour," said Whitson. "If the international community doesn't have the guts to hold Israel accountable for its atrocities and end this grotesque, genocidal assault on Palestinian civilians, the very least it can do is establish a U.N. protection force to ensure the safe delivery of aid."
(...) If such a measure faces a U.S. veto or if the UNSC is again paralyzed due to the many such vetoes — or threatened vetoes — the U.S. has cast to preserve Israeli impunity, member states should introduce a U.N. General Assembly resolution (under "Uniting for Peace" resolution of November 1950 [resolution 377 (V)]) to establish a Chapter VI peacekeeping force in Gaza. The Uniting for Peace resolution stipulates that "if the Security Council, because of lack of unanimity of the permanent members, fails to exercise its primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security in any case where there appears to be a threat to the peace, breach of the peace or act of aggression, the General Assembly shall consider the matter immediately…"
The U.N. General Assembly has met under the auspices of Uniting for Peace eleven times, going back as far as the 1956 Sinai campaign, which resulted in the deployment of the first United Nations Emergency Force (UNEF I). The Tenth Session of Uniting for Peace is still active and was last convened in December 2023 to address the crisis in Gaza and demand an immediate ceasefire. If the Security Council is unable to advance immediate and decisive action, the UNGA must reconvene the 10th session once again.
posted by cendawanita at 7:54 PM on March 3 [7 favorites]
Also, from Akbar Shahid Ahmed (the HuffPo journalist on the WH/DC BEAT): A US official familiar w/ top Biden aides' thinking tells me they expected scenarios like the flour massacre but know POTUS is "not budging" on pushing Israel in a real way despite Gaza's needs.
The result: "hard-to-do + low-yield PR stunts like air drops + portable port idea."
This person's worked in government through R + D admins. They argue Biden is "micromanaging" uniquely + US policy is shaped by a "singular" combination of unhelpful views + incompetence.
"Pushing Israel to allow food in is totally off the table" despite broad US gov frustration.
Local reports that some of the aid contains expired food (twt with pics) probably isn't going to be any meaningful redline to the international esp American body politic I guess.
Analysis from Guardian: Gaza airdrops might not be necessary if Israel faced more pressure on aid:
The US says it understands the inherent risks airdrops entail. The US national security spokesperson, John Kirby, said: “There are few military operations that are more complicated than humanitarian assistance airdrops. This is a tough military mission to do because so many parameters have to be exactly right.
“That said, I think we will learn from the first airdrops and this will be part of a sustained effort. This will not be one and done. With each one we will get better. It is very difficult, it is extremely difficult, to do airdrops in such a densely populated area as Gaza. You have to get as close as possible to the people in need but not in any way that it puts them in any danger. We fully expect the third and fourth and fifth one will not look like the first and second one. We will try to learn and improve.”
Few sentences speak more volumes about the self-imposed moral universe the west has chosen to inhabit.
A call from DAWN: United Nations: Establish International Protection Force in Gaza:
"The whole world is watching in horror as Israel is deliberately starving Palestinians, not only impeding the delivery of aid but actually firing and killing people desperately trying to obtain a few sacks of flour," said Whitson. "If the international community doesn't have the guts to hold Israel accountable for its atrocities and end this grotesque, genocidal assault on Palestinian civilians, the very least it can do is establish a U.N. protection force to ensure the safe delivery of aid."
(...) If such a measure faces a U.S. veto or if the UNSC is again paralyzed due to the many such vetoes — or threatened vetoes — the U.S. has cast to preserve Israeli impunity, member states should introduce a U.N. General Assembly resolution (under "Uniting for Peace" resolution of November 1950 [resolution 377 (V)]) to establish a Chapter VI peacekeeping force in Gaza. The Uniting for Peace resolution stipulates that "if the Security Council, because of lack of unanimity of the permanent members, fails to exercise its primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security in any case where there appears to be a threat to the peace, breach of the peace or act of aggression, the General Assembly shall consider the matter immediately…"
The U.N. General Assembly has met under the auspices of Uniting for Peace eleven times, going back as far as the 1956 Sinai campaign, which resulted in the deployment of the first United Nations Emergency Force (UNEF I). The Tenth Session of Uniting for Peace is still active and was last convened in December 2023 to address the crisis in Gaza and demand an immediate ceasefire. If the Security Council is unable to advance immediate and decisive action, the UNGA must reconvene the 10th session once again.
posted by cendawanita at 7:54 PM on March 3 [7 favorites]
Isi baehr-breen:
It is super funny that Biden can do literally everything Israel has asked him to do, and pay an enormous political price for doing so, and these guys will still say he’s working with Hamas.
QT Noah Pollak: Noteworthy that Biden is dropping aid on Rafah -- the only part of Gaza that is still held by Hamas. Biden is desperate to prevent an Israeli victory, so he is creating in effect a US presence in the one part of Gaza the IDF still needs to conquer.
posted by cendawanita at 8:03 PM on March 3 [3 favorites]
It is super funny that Biden can do literally everything Israel has asked him to do, and pay an enormous political price for doing so, and these guys will still say he’s working with Hamas.
QT Noah Pollak: Noteworthy that Biden is dropping aid on Rafah -- the only part of Gaza that is still held by Hamas. Biden is desperate to prevent an Israeli victory, so he is creating in effect a US presence in the one part of Gaza the IDF still needs to conquer.
posted by cendawanita at 8:03 PM on March 3 [3 favorites]
Meanwhile, Israel has greenlit 5 new illegal settlements in the West Bank, and Israeli real-estate companies are going on junkets to the US and Canada to sell stolen real estate to Americans and Canadians. They're doing the presentations in synagogues!
(Links to come but i'm too busy right now)
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:03 PM on March 3 [7 favorites]
(Links to come but i'm too busy right now)
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:03 PM on March 3 [7 favorites]
Before I forget, a couple of quicktakes from the conclusion of the six days of ICJ hearings regarding the legality of Israel's occupation of Palestine:
- (AP) Majority of countries argue Israel violated international law in last historic hearing at UN court
- Nimer Sultany (threadreader version)
First, is how isolated Israel is, legally and politically. Dozens of states made comprehensive arguments regarding the illegality of Israel's occupation and the violation of prohibition on apartheid and racial discrimination. They called for an immediate end of the occupation. 2/14
(...)What follows from this isolation is a proper understanding of the "failure of the international community": The single most important factor that enables Israel to maintain its unlawful occupation, and consolidate an apartheid regime over historic Palestine, is US imperialism. 4/14
Second, although the ICJ case on Genocide deals with a different legal framework than the one invoked in the ICJ case on the legality of occupation, one wonders if the Judges can maintain the legalistic distinction in their minds. 5/14
(...) In their ruling on provisional measures the ICJ focused on the genocide case on the "immediate context" despite South Africa's application's invitation to consider 75 years of apartheid, 56 years of occupation, 16 years of siege. 13/14
Israel's intentions towards Gaza cannot be separated from the colonial dynamics of elimination, & Israel's de-humanisation of Palestinians since Oct 7th can't be separated from its denial of their rights and their inferior status for decades to justify their dispossession. 14/14
Something to keep in one's pocket: (The New Humanitarian) Gaza genocide case: Has Israel complied with ICJ orders? as well as HRW: Israel Not Complying with World Court Order in Genocide Case (Other countries should use all forms of leverage, including sanctions and embargoes, to press the Israeli government to comply with the court’s binding orders in the genocide case, Human Rights Watch said.)
An OSINT-based report: (Airwars) Two weeks under scrutiny: Patterns of harm reported in Gaza following ICJ ruling:
Among the key trends were:
- Civilians were reported killed every day in incidents during the two-week period, with an average of 16 casualty incidents recorded per day.
- In 190 of the incidents, civilians were reported killed or injured following the alleged use of explosive weapons. In 36 incidents, civilians were allegedly shot and killed or injured by live fire.
- Healthcare workers and first responders were reported killed in six incidents.
- Civilians waiting for humanitarian aid were reported killed or injured in five separate incidents.
- Civilians in education centres were reported killed or injured in eight separate incidents, often while taking shelter.
- Journalists were reported killed in at least five of these incidents, often alongside members of their family.
- In 13 separate incidents, at least ten civilians were alleged to have been killed.
- Geographically the largest number of incidents occurred in the governorate of Khan Yunis, which Israeli forces were seeking to take control of during the time period.
Feb 25 Guardian piece which feels worth (re)visiting with news that Benny Gantz, himself no friend of the Palestinians, is now in DC to meet the White House despite the visit not being approved by Bibi: Israelis take little heed of global anger. But their contempt for Netanyahu is growing
posted by cendawanita at 1:01 AM on March 4 [6 favorites]
- (AP) Majority of countries argue Israel violated international law in last historic hearing at UN court
- Nimer Sultany (threadreader version)
First, is how isolated Israel is, legally and politically. Dozens of states made comprehensive arguments regarding the illegality of Israel's occupation and the violation of prohibition on apartheid and racial discrimination. They called for an immediate end of the occupation. 2/14
(...)What follows from this isolation is a proper understanding of the "failure of the international community": The single most important factor that enables Israel to maintain its unlawful occupation, and consolidate an apartheid regime over historic Palestine, is US imperialism. 4/14
Second, although the ICJ case on Genocide deals with a different legal framework than the one invoked in the ICJ case on the legality of occupation, one wonders if the Judges can maintain the legalistic distinction in their minds. 5/14
(...) In their ruling on provisional measures the ICJ focused on the genocide case on the "immediate context" despite South Africa's application's invitation to consider 75 years of apartheid, 56 years of occupation, 16 years of siege. 13/14
Israel's intentions towards Gaza cannot be separated from the colonial dynamics of elimination, & Israel's de-humanisation of Palestinians since Oct 7th can't be separated from its denial of their rights and their inferior status for decades to justify their dispossession. 14/14
Something to keep in one's pocket: (The New Humanitarian) Gaza genocide case: Has Israel complied with ICJ orders? as well as HRW: Israel Not Complying with World Court Order in Genocide Case (Other countries should use all forms of leverage, including sanctions and embargoes, to press the Israeli government to comply with the court’s binding orders in the genocide case, Human Rights Watch said.)
An OSINT-based report: (Airwars) Two weeks under scrutiny: Patterns of harm reported in Gaza following ICJ ruling:
Among the key trends were:
- Civilians were reported killed every day in incidents during the two-week period, with an average of 16 casualty incidents recorded per day.
- In 190 of the incidents, civilians were reported killed or injured following the alleged use of explosive weapons. In 36 incidents, civilians were allegedly shot and killed or injured by live fire.
- Healthcare workers and first responders were reported killed in six incidents.
- Civilians waiting for humanitarian aid were reported killed or injured in five separate incidents.
- Civilians in education centres were reported killed or injured in eight separate incidents, often while taking shelter.
- Journalists were reported killed in at least five of these incidents, often alongside members of their family.
- In 13 separate incidents, at least ten civilians were alleged to have been killed.
- Geographically the largest number of incidents occurred in the governorate of Khan Yunis, which Israeli forces were seeking to take control of during the time period.
Feb 25 Guardian piece which feels worth (re)visiting with news that Benny Gantz, himself no friend of the Palestinians, is now in DC to meet the White House despite the visit not being approved by Bibi: Israelis take little heed of global anger. But their contempt for Netanyahu is growing
posted by cendawanita at 1:01 AM on March 4 [6 favorites]
29 Feb (Euro-Med Monitor): Initial investigations by Euro-Med Monitor confirm Israeli army gunfire killed, wounded dozens of starving civilians in Gaza - then on 3 March (BBC Verify): What video and eyewitness accounts tell us about Gazans killed at aid drop
I have to appreciate the noncommittal tone but anyway the article noted the incomplete/edited footage released by IDF and the changing explanations provided to date regarding the (first? largest?) Flour Massacre.
1 March (Guardian): Israel has not yet provided evidence to back Hamas 7 October attack claims against UNRWA, UN says (over the weekend: EU announced it will resume its funding (partial, with the subsequent tranches that were also planned/budgeted to be subject to further negotiations)
1 Mar (Haaretz, but also elsewhere) International Media Condemns Israeli Attacks on Palestinian Journalists in Gaza - Signatories included the executives of ABC, AP, Reuters, The New York Times, the Washington Post, The Guardian and Haaretz. Separately, dozens of journalists demanded to be allowed in to report independently – a request recently rejected by Israel's High Court of Justice
Back to the NYT article that I've seen people compared to what Judith Miller did in the run-up to the Second Iraq War:
(The Nation) The Nixonian New York Times Stonewalls on a Discredited Article About Hamas and Rape, which quotes this Vanity Fair piece: New York Times Launches Leak Investigation Over Report on Its Israel-Gaza Coverage. There are claims that the leak investigations racially profiled which journalists/staff are being questioned first, which has caused NewsGuild to issue a letter to the publisher.
posted by cendawanita at 1:46 AM on March 4 [7 favorites]
I have to appreciate the noncommittal tone but anyway the article noted the incomplete/edited footage released by IDF and the changing explanations provided to date regarding the (first? largest?) Flour Massacre.
1 March (Guardian): Israel has not yet provided evidence to back Hamas 7 October attack claims against UNRWA, UN says (over the weekend: EU announced it will resume its funding (partial, with the subsequent tranches that were also planned/budgeted to be subject to further negotiations)
1 Mar (Haaretz, but also elsewhere) International Media Condemns Israeli Attacks on Palestinian Journalists in Gaza - Signatories included the executives of ABC, AP, Reuters, The New York Times, the Washington Post, The Guardian and Haaretz. Separately, dozens of journalists demanded to be allowed in to report independently – a request recently rejected by Israel's High Court of Justice
Back to the NYT article that I've seen people compared to what Judith Miller did in the run-up to the Second Iraq War:
(The Nation) The Nixonian New York Times Stonewalls on a Discredited Article About Hamas and Rape, which quotes this Vanity Fair piece: New York Times Launches Leak Investigation Over Report on Its Israel-Gaza Coverage. There are claims that the leak investigations racially profiled which journalists/staff are being questioned first, which has caused NewsGuild to issue a letter to the publisher.
posted by cendawanita at 1:46 AM on March 4 [7 favorites]
Learning about how Holocaust memory has evolved and how its centrality to Jewish identity is relatively new was fascinating.
I expect you'd find that The Holocaust Industry offers much food for thought. As is his usual practice, Finkelstein brings receipts.
posted by flabdablet at 1:58 AM on March 4 [6 favorites]
I expect you'd find that The Holocaust Industry offers much food for thought. As is his usual practice, Finkelstein brings receipts.
posted by flabdablet at 1:58 AM on March 4 [6 favorites]
the incomplete/edited footage released by IDF and the changing explanations provided to date regarding the (first? largest?) Flour Massacre
How long, do you reckon, before we see some Likud spokesparrot claim that the IDF had no choice but to shoot those people because the white powder in those bags might have been anthrax?
posted by flabdablet at 2:03 AM on March 4 [2 favorites]
How long, do you reckon, before we see some Likud spokesparrot claim that the IDF had no choice but to shoot those people because the white powder in those bags might have been anthrax?
posted by flabdablet at 2:03 AM on March 4 [2 favorites]
Oh, they'll say those packs were bombs: today, from Ramy Abdu: A new crime caught on Israeli army cameras, alleging they targeted a Palestinian with a grenade. Upon scrutiny and on-ground information, it appears the attack hit a civilian carrying flour, walking with his brother and a bicycle. The Israeli army indiscriminately kills civilians, sometimes for amusement. (with drone video)
CNN Interactive: How indiscriminate Israeli fire killed half a family in Gaza - Taken together, the evidence reveals how the Abu Jibbas came under attack by Israeli forces without advance warning. It also suggests that some were killed by a massive bomb.
Meanwhile at the West Bank: (Guardian) ‘It was an execution’: family mourns boy shot dead by Israeli forces - Nihal Abu Ayash, 16, was reportedly the 100th Palestinian child to be killed in the West Bank since Hamas’s 7 October attack
Known liberal rag, Times of Israel: Back from Israel, 6 US House Dems accuse PM of ‘utter disregard’ for Palestinian lives - Six lawmakers, several with pro-Israel records, who traveled to Israel with J Street delegation blame Netanyahu for failure to get relief to Gazans, call for release of hostages
About that (this is on my low-heat boiler to see if there's more reporting): (Reuters) Hamas armed wing says seven hostages killed in Gaza.
At this rate, they better conscript some necromancers. In any case, this Guardian interview with former hostageChen Almog-Goldstein : When Agam had a panic attack on day two of their underground confinement, one Hamas guard reassured her: “Tuesday, you’re back in Israel.”
That was not to be the case. The family were eventually driven to an apartment in a multi-storey block where they would spend the next five weeks. “You could see the sea, not very far off in the distance,” Almog-Goldstein recalled.
(...) The three guards apologised for making the family sleep in a storage room in the supermarket but said they had some hope that the war was about to end.
The next day the supermarket was hit by shrapnel from an Israeli aerial bombardment. “It was atrocious. It was the first time we really felt like our lives were in danger,” Almog-Goldstein said.
“We heard the constant shelling and bombing getting closer and closer and could already see all the stones flying around and the rubble and shrapnel. It was closing up on us to the point where the Hamas guards put mattresses over us on the floor to cover us, and then they covered us with their bodies to protect us from our own forces’ shooting.”
(...) The family became hopeful that the war, then in its seventh week, was ending because their captors seemed “excited about a looming ceasefire”. But their guards told them there was nowhere safe left in Gaza and that they would have to wait it out in an underground tunnel with six female Israeli hostages, including two children.
“Every encounter with captives in Gaza was truly exciting,” said Almog-Goldstein. “But three of the women were wounded, some had complex injuries, and some spoke about sexual assaults.”
Hopeful these ones survived.
Catch-up news:
(AP) Gaza doctor says gunfire accounted for 80% of the wounds at his hospital from aid convoy bloodshed
(Guardian) Humanitarian workers face deportation from Israel after freeze on visas - Dozens of foreign staff have had to leave and new specialists can’t be brought in, says group representing aid agencies
(CNN) Anesthetics, crutches, dates. Inside Israel’s ghost list of items arbitrarily denied entry into Gaza ; civilian-led Oct 7 Factcheck also has its own page addressing the claim that aid hasn't been throttled made by COGAT. I'm not touching yet the ongoing threads I'm seeing about the person behind the civilian aid blockade encampment but know that there's efforts there.
(BBC Verify) Checking Israel's claim to have killed 10,000 Hamas fighters -
BBC Verify reviewed all 280 videos posted to the IDF YouTube channel from 7 October up to 27 February and found that very few contained visual evidence of fighters being killed.
Of these just one - posted on 14 December - purports to show dead bodies of fighters. A handful of other videos appear to show fighters being shot at.
We also attempted to count the number of individual claims of Hamas fighters killed on the IDF's official Telegram channel. We found 160 posts claiming to have killed a specific number of fighters, for a total of 714 fatalities.
But there were also 247 references which used terms such as "several", "dozens" or "hundreds" killed, making a meaningful overall tally impossible.
Since the beginning of the IDF incursion into Gaza, the military has accused Hamas of using the civilian population as human shields.
But some experts are concerned that the IDF might be counting some non-combatants as fighters merely because they are part of the Hamas-run territory's administration.
posted by cendawanita at 2:18 AM on March 4 [11 favorites]
CNN Interactive: How indiscriminate Israeli fire killed half a family in Gaza - Taken together, the evidence reveals how the Abu Jibbas came under attack by Israeli forces without advance warning. It also suggests that some were killed by a massive bomb.
Meanwhile at the West Bank: (Guardian) ‘It was an execution’: family mourns boy shot dead by Israeli forces - Nihal Abu Ayash, 16, was reportedly the 100th Palestinian child to be killed in the West Bank since Hamas’s 7 October attack
Known liberal rag, Times of Israel: Back from Israel, 6 US House Dems accuse PM of ‘utter disregard’ for Palestinian lives - Six lawmakers, several with pro-Israel records, who traveled to Israel with J Street delegation blame Netanyahu for failure to get relief to Gazans, call for release of hostages
About that (this is on my low-heat boiler to see if there's more reporting): (Reuters) Hamas armed wing says seven hostages killed in Gaza.
At this rate, they better conscript some necromancers. In any case, this Guardian interview with former hostageChen Almog-Goldstein : When Agam had a panic attack on day two of their underground confinement, one Hamas guard reassured her: “Tuesday, you’re back in Israel.”
That was not to be the case. The family were eventually driven to an apartment in a multi-storey block where they would spend the next five weeks. “You could see the sea, not very far off in the distance,” Almog-Goldstein recalled.
(...) The three guards apologised for making the family sleep in a storage room in the supermarket but said they had some hope that the war was about to end.
The next day the supermarket was hit by shrapnel from an Israeli aerial bombardment. “It was atrocious. It was the first time we really felt like our lives were in danger,” Almog-Goldstein said.
“We heard the constant shelling and bombing getting closer and closer and could already see all the stones flying around and the rubble and shrapnel. It was closing up on us to the point where the Hamas guards put mattresses over us on the floor to cover us, and then they covered us with their bodies to protect us from our own forces’ shooting.”
(...) The family became hopeful that the war, then in its seventh week, was ending because their captors seemed “excited about a looming ceasefire”. But their guards told them there was nowhere safe left in Gaza and that they would have to wait it out in an underground tunnel with six female Israeli hostages, including two children.
“Every encounter with captives in Gaza was truly exciting,” said Almog-Goldstein. “But three of the women were wounded, some had complex injuries, and some spoke about sexual assaults.”
Hopeful these ones survived.
Catch-up news:
(AP) Gaza doctor says gunfire accounted for 80% of the wounds at his hospital from aid convoy bloodshed
(Guardian) Humanitarian workers face deportation from Israel after freeze on visas - Dozens of foreign staff have had to leave and new specialists can’t be brought in, says group representing aid agencies
(CNN) Anesthetics, crutches, dates. Inside Israel’s ghost list of items arbitrarily denied entry into Gaza ; civilian-led Oct 7 Factcheck also has its own page addressing the claim that aid hasn't been throttled made by COGAT. I'm not touching yet the ongoing threads I'm seeing about the person behind the civilian aid blockade encampment but know that there's efforts there.
(BBC Verify) Checking Israel's claim to have killed 10,000 Hamas fighters -
BBC Verify reviewed all 280 videos posted to the IDF YouTube channel from 7 October up to 27 February and found that very few contained visual evidence of fighters being killed.
Of these just one - posted on 14 December - purports to show dead bodies of fighters. A handful of other videos appear to show fighters being shot at.
We also attempted to count the number of individual claims of Hamas fighters killed on the IDF's official Telegram channel. We found 160 posts claiming to have killed a specific number of fighters, for a total of 714 fatalities.
But there were also 247 references which used terms such as "several", "dozens" or "hundreds" killed, making a meaningful overall tally impossible.
Since the beginning of the IDF incursion into Gaza, the military has accused Hamas of using the civilian population as human shields.
But some experts are concerned that the IDF might be counting some non-combatants as fighters merely because they are part of the Hamas-run territory's administration.
posted by cendawanita at 2:18 AM on March 4 [11 favorites]
Learning about how Holocaust memory has evolved and how its centrality to Jewish identity is relatively new was fascinating.
I expect you'd find that The Holocaust Industry offers much food for thought. As is his usual practice, Finkelstein brings receipts.
If you're interested in this topic, The Holocaust in American Life is a top tier book on any subject. Just phenomenal historical work by novick.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 6:24 AM on March 4 [4 favorites]
I expect you'd find that The Holocaust Industry offers much food for thought. As is his usual practice, Finkelstein brings receipts.
If you're interested in this topic, The Holocaust in American Life is a top tier book on any subject. Just phenomenal historical work by novick.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 6:24 AM on March 4 [4 favorites]
"Keir Starmer, this is for Gaza"
Apologies if this has been noted already, but the return of George Galloway to Parliament? Only crossed my (Canadian) radar yesterday.
"Labour is on notice that they have lost the confidence of millions of their voters."
posted by elkevelvet at 10:15 AM on March 4 [3 favorites]
Apologies if this has been noted already, but the return of George Galloway to Parliament? Only crossed my (Canadian) radar yesterday.
"Labour is on notice that they have lost the confidence of millions of their voters."
posted by elkevelvet at 10:15 AM on March 4 [3 favorites]
The Twat in the Hat Comes Back.
posted by Grangousier at 11:11 AM on March 4 [1 favorite]
posted by Grangousier at 11:11 AM on March 4 [1 favorite]
Mini-documentary on Israeli soldiers documenting their own crimes (found via)
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 11:42 AM on March 4 [4 favorites]
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 11:42 AM on March 4 [4 favorites]
Israeli soldiers documenting their own crimes
Self-reflection is difficult in the heat of the moment so instead we have: "Israel is losing the war on TikTok. Palestinians have been more active for many, many years"
Yeah, that's the reason why. Why not blame inexpensive solar panels as well, that's helped to keep Palestinians still somewhat connected too? Blame China, or the sun.
Anyway, on the Biden thread I linked to that NBC News (Administration officials watered down Kamala Harris' Gaza speech before delivery), and while the time is still appropriate to critique the timing and how WH understands 'ceasefire' eg this piece in The Nation (Biden Redefines “Cease-Fire” to Stem Anger Over Gaza), I thought this Israeli thread from Neria Kraus (in Hebrew) is of interest (h/t Daniel Seidemann) where the news is seen with some concern:
(...) Harris does not represent herself, but rather a mindset that is spreading in the corridors of the White House, and the things are really not being said contrary to the instruction of her boss.
This is not a change of tone, it is a complete change of the American perception of the fighting in Gaza.
2. It doesn't just happen. First of all, the pictures of the Gaza victims trying to get food are very bad pictures for Israel. They present in a negative light the meaning of the military operation and its consequences for the residents of Gaza, as I heard a senior official in the White House say: "The situation is desperate." This is the new concept. And this concept cannot really live together with uncompromising aid to Israel in all aspects, in the way it has been until now.
3. It doesn't just happen, it happens because the crisis between Netanyahu and Biden is real. This is a serious crisis of trust - Biden who gave everything he could to the Israelis, to lsrael, to Netanyahu - and discovered that there is nothing new under the sun. Netanyahu is Netanyahu, and Netanyahu is busy with politics and his own campaign to retain the seat, while Biden is actually
jeopardizing his race for the presidency, for the sake of Israel and the lsraelis.
The last point is about Benny Gantz which I've mentioned above.
I'm gonna turn in but there've been reports of a third flour massacre, but I think based on my understanding of previously shared thread, it would be more correct to see that as not the third massacre, but an ongoing one but that the incident with so-called moniker was only distinct in terms of number of people dead and injured.
posted by cendawanita at 10:35 AM on March 5 [16 favorites]
Self-reflection is difficult in the heat of the moment so instead we have: "Israel is losing the war on TikTok. Palestinians have been more active for many, many years"
Yeah, that's the reason why. Why not blame inexpensive solar panels as well, that's helped to keep Palestinians still somewhat connected too? Blame China, or the sun.
Anyway, on the Biden thread I linked to that NBC News (Administration officials watered down Kamala Harris' Gaza speech before delivery), and while the time is still appropriate to critique the timing and how WH understands 'ceasefire' eg this piece in The Nation (Biden Redefines “Cease-Fire” to Stem Anger Over Gaza), I thought this Israeli thread from Neria Kraus (in Hebrew) is of interest (h/t Daniel Seidemann) where the news is seen with some concern:
(...) Harris does not represent herself, but rather a mindset that is spreading in the corridors of the White House, and the things are really not being said contrary to the instruction of her boss.
This is not a change of tone, it is a complete change of the American perception of the fighting in Gaza.
2. It doesn't just happen. First of all, the pictures of the Gaza victims trying to get food are very bad pictures for Israel. They present in a negative light the meaning of the military operation and its consequences for the residents of Gaza, as I heard a senior official in the White House say: "The situation is desperate." This is the new concept. And this concept cannot really live together with uncompromising aid to Israel in all aspects, in the way it has been until now.
3. It doesn't just happen, it happens because the crisis between Netanyahu and Biden is real. This is a serious crisis of trust - Biden who gave everything he could to the Israelis, to lsrael, to Netanyahu - and discovered that there is nothing new under the sun. Netanyahu is Netanyahu, and Netanyahu is busy with politics and his own campaign to retain the seat, while Biden is actually
jeopardizing his race for the presidency, for the sake of Israel and the lsraelis.
The last point is about Benny Gantz which I've mentioned above.
I'm gonna turn in but there've been reports of a third flour massacre, but I think based on my understanding of previously shared thread, it would be more correct to see that as not the third massacre, but an ongoing one but that the incident with so-called moniker was only distinct in terms of number of people dead and injured.
posted by cendawanita at 10:35 AM on March 5 [16 favorites]
Thank you again @cendawanita! I am really relying on these threads for news, especially since you are wading through Israeli social media and IOF sources that I don't have the stomach for. I'm pretty much relying exclusively on this thread, Palestinian social media accounts I trust, occasionally news reports from Al Jazeera, Intercept, the Nation, 972 Mag etc. (though there's a slant there) and very, very rarely, accounts from WaPo, NY Times and Politico (obviously, no intellectual or moral integrity there but sometimes the slant is so obvious, it's almost funny--like they're truly racking their brains trying to figure out how to dismiss the humanity of Palestinians best).
posted by lizard2590 at 12:07 PM on March 5 [4 favorites]
posted by lizard2590 at 12:07 PM on March 5 [4 favorites]
sometimes the slant is so obvious, it's almost funny--like they're truly racking their brains trying to figure out how to dismiss the humanity of Palestinians
More like "always"; the verbal contortions that most of the mainstream media, and especially headline writers, will go through to avoid assigning any blame or culpability to Israel are truly Orwellian. Passive voice, almost exclusively; Palestinian children don't get referred to as "children" because that might make them sympathetic (The most grotesque example I've seen being the Sky News presenter: "a bullet entered the van and killed the 3- or 4- year-old young lady".
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 1:18 PM on March 5 [10 favorites]
More like "always"; the verbal contortions that most of the mainstream media, and especially headline writers, will go through to avoid assigning any blame or culpability to Israel are truly Orwellian. Passive voice, almost exclusively; Palestinian children don't get referred to as "children" because that might make them sympathetic (The most grotesque example I've seen being the Sky News presenter: "a bullet entered the van and killed the 3- or 4- year-old young lady".
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 1:18 PM on March 5 [10 favorites]
An idiosyncratic left-wing analysis of the current conflict: Seven Realities of Israel/Palestine
HuffPo: These Injured Palestinians Made It Out Of Gaza. Their Loved Ones Did Not — And The Distance Is Agony.
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 6:57 AM on March 6 [3 favorites]
There is no straightforward conclusion to draw. Every dimension of the situation is discomfiting. While it is obvious that a ceasefire is necessary for any politics to happen, it seems equally clear that nobody has any serious politics to offer once the violence stops. The wider realities do not fit into a neat whole, nor do they fit easily into inherited slogans or moral formulas. They are a reminder only of the destructiveness of our political impasse and our impoverished ability to shape it.Jewish Currents: Understanding Biden’s Settler Sanctions Strategy: "The administration’s sanctions on Israeli settlers are an attempt to mollify its disillusioned base without confronting the Israeli government."
HuffPo: These Injured Palestinians Made It Out Of Gaza. Their Loved Ones Did Not — And The Distance Is Agony.
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 6:57 AM on March 6 [3 favorites]
Electronic Intifada: History will record that Israel committed a holocaust
Before I made it across the Rafah-Egypt border, I read every bit of news coming out of Gaza or about Gaza. I did not look away from any video or image posted from the ground, no matter how gruesome, shocking or traumatizing.Ralph Nader: Stop the Worsening UNDERCOUNT of Palestinian Casualties in Gaza
...
I thought I understood the situation on the ground. But I didn’t.
Nothing can truly prepare you for this dystopia. What reaches the rest of the world is a fraction of what I’ve seen so far, which is only a fraction of this horror’s totality.
The Health Ministry is intentionally conservative, citing that its death toll came from reports only of named deceased by hospitals and morgues. But as the weeks turned into months, blasted, disabled hospitals and morgues cannot keep up with the bodies, or cannot count those slain laying on roadsides in allies and beneath building debris. Yet the Health Ministry remains conservative and the “official,” rising civilian fatality and injury count continues to be uncritically reported by both friend and foe of this devastating Israeli state terrorism.posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 9:06 AM on March 6 [10 favorites]
...
From accounts of people on the ground, videos and photographs of deadly episode after episode, plus the resultant mortalities from blocking or smashing the crucial necessities of life, a more likely estimate, in my appraisal, is that at least 200,000 Palestinians must have perished by now and the toll is accelerating by the hour.
There's some political theatre happening around the expected ground invasion in Rafah. Bottom-line it's happening but the US is unhappy about it ("shooting while crying" as I've heard Palestinians and anti-zionist Israelis describe it). To the extent the unhappiness will amount to anything longterm (in the meantime as shared in the other threads, weapons support is ongoing), Barak Ravid (Axios, on the Tel Aviv/WH beat, his past as ex-IDF has been noted) reported on the Benny Gantz visit where the main tenor from the Israelis is that they're shocked at how much the Americans are unhappy: Axios report ('Israeli minister lambasted at White House about Gaza and war strategy'); Threadreader version of his thread. I'm finding value in the schadenfreude but I don't necessarily feel it amounts to anything but feel-good tv at this moment.
Akbar Shahid Ahmed of HuffPo qt the bit about the middle east normalisation being dead with this tweet: As this plan was internally pitched in DC in January, I broke new details about it + a source told me it was "delusionally optimistic."
The White House claimed I "made up" quotes.
Now it's clear WH officials both acknowledge the plan + share that view.
A Top Biden Official Is Pushing An Urgent Post-Gaza Plan That’s Alarming Some Insiders
In any case, parts of the state apparatus is working about as expected: (The Intercept) Leaked U.S. Cable: Israeli Invasion of Rafah Would Have “Catastrophic Humanitarian Consequences” - With 1.5 million Palestinians trapped in Rafah, a leaked U.S. diplomatic cable says an Israeli offensive would cut off all aid and seize an already collapsed health system.
posted by cendawanita at 7:34 PM on March 6 [2 favorites]
Akbar Shahid Ahmed of HuffPo qt the bit about the middle east normalisation being dead with this tweet: As this plan was internally pitched in DC in January, I broke new details about it + a source told me it was "delusionally optimistic."
The White House claimed I "made up" quotes.
Now it's clear WH officials both acknowledge the plan + share that view.
A Top Biden Official Is Pushing An Urgent Post-Gaza Plan That’s Alarming Some Insiders
In any case, parts of the state apparatus is working about as expected: (The Intercept) Leaked U.S. Cable: Israeli Invasion of Rafah Would Have “Catastrophic Humanitarian Consequences” - With 1.5 million Palestinians trapped in Rafah, a leaked U.S. diplomatic cable says an Israeli offensive would cut off all aid and seize an already collapsed health system.
posted by cendawanita at 7:34 PM on March 6 [2 favorites]
This should be interesting....
PM referred to International Criminal Court accused of complicity in genocide
"Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has been referred to the International Criminal Court as an accessory to genocide in Gaza, making him the first leader of a Western nation to be referred to the ICC under Article 15 of the Rome Statute.
A team of Australian lawyers from Birchgrove Legal, led by King’s Counsel Sheryn Omeri, have spent months documenting the alleged complicity and outlining the individual criminal responsibility of Mr Albanese in respect to the situation in Palestine."
In light of...
American Service-Members' Protection Act
The Act gives the president power to use "all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any U.S. or allied personnel being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court".
I'm sure nothing will come of the Birchgrove case but citizens taking their politicians to court could be an interesting way of applying pressure and forcing pols to discuss/defend their (largely indefensible) position to the public.
posted by phigmov at 9:30 PM on March 6 [7 favorites]
PM referred to International Criminal Court accused of complicity in genocide
"Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has been referred to the International Criminal Court as an accessory to genocide in Gaza, making him the first leader of a Western nation to be referred to the ICC under Article 15 of the Rome Statute.
A team of Australian lawyers from Birchgrove Legal, led by King’s Counsel Sheryn Omeri, have spent months documenting the alleged complicity and outlining the individual criminal responsibility of Mr Albanese in respect to the situation in Palestine."
In light of...
American Service-Members' Protection Act
The Act gives the president power to use "all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any U.S. or allied personnel being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court".
I'm sure nothing will come of the Birchgrove case but citizens taking their politicians to court could be an interesting way of applying pressure and forcing pols to discuss/defend their (largely indefensible) position to the public.
posted by phigmov at 9:30 PM on March 6 [7 favorites]
Confirmed(-ish): Canadian government will resume funding to United Nations relief agency for Palestinians
Still cooking: UK plan in place to resume Unrwa funding after 'hasty' suspension - British Foreign Secretary David Cameron says UN agency is the only body with a distribution network capable of delivering aid in Gaza
Mother Jones: How the Biden Administration Kneecapped the Most Essential Aid Group in Gaza - UNRWA has been pushed to its “breaking point” after “rash” decisions by the US and its allies.
In terms of domestic legal moves that I've seen reported:
Dyab Abou Jahjah:
🚨🚨 New Legal Action against two Dutch entities for complicity in crimes in Palestine.
#March30Movement
#EndImpunity
⬇️
Our "30-3 Legal Team" has filed a complaint targeting Stichting Christenen voor Israël (Foundation Christians for Israel) and ABN AMRO Bank N.V. for the facilitation of financial and logistical support to unauthorized settlements in the Palestinian territories.
This includes the alleged provision of funds and critical resources such as drones, helmets, and bulletproof vests to settlers, constituting a direct violation of Dutch laws, international humanitarian laws and contributing to significant human rights abuses.
The complaint accuses both entities and their leadership of sustaining and supporting the ongoing occupation and systematic colonization efforts, directly contravening Dutch law as well as established international legal standards regarding the occupied territories.
Presented evidence suggests the operations and financial transactions orchestrated by Stichting Christenen voor Israël and ABN AMRO Bank N.V. play a pivotal role in perpetuating an environment fraught with legal and humanitarian concerns, impacting Palestinian lives and sovereignty.
The legal action seeks a comprehensive investigation and subsequent prosecution, emphasizing the need for accountability and rigorous legal oversight in international relations and human rights enforcement. This case underscores the urgent need for addressing the legal obligations of organizations and financial institutions in the context of the occupation and colonization of Palestine.
(Guardian) Tory peer pays damages after alleging University Challenge mascot was antisemitic
(iNews, UK) Secret dossier on academic’s politics poses ‘serious questions’ for Government - Michelle Donelan is forced to retract a claim an academic shared 'extremist' views on the Israel-Hamas war, with the Government paying damages on her behalf
(The Star) Palestinian Canadians sue Foreign Affairs Minister Mélanie Joly, alleging Canada's military exports to Israel are illegal
(Al-Jazeera) German lawyers sue Scholz, alleging complicity in Gaza ‘genocide’ - Lawyers representing Palestinians file criminal complaint against the chancellor and other top politicians as Germany remains committed to Israel.
posted by cendawanita at 11:53 PM on March 6 [8 favorites]
Still cooking: UK plan in place to resume Unrwa funding after 'hasty' suspension - British Foreign Secretary David Cameron says UN agency is the only body with a distribution network capable of delivering aid in Gaza
Mother Jones: How the Biden Administration Kneecapped the Most Essential Aid Group in Gaza - UNRWA has been pushed to its “breaking point” after “rash” decisions by the US and its allies.
In terms of domestic legal moves that I've seen reported:
Dyab Abou Jahjah:
🚨🚨 New Legal Action against two Dutch entities for complicity in crimes in Palestine.
#March30Movement
#EndImpunity
⬇️
Our "30-3 Legal Team" has filed a complaint targeting Stichting Christenen voor Israël (Foundation Christians for Israel) and ABN AMRO Bank N.V. for the facilitation of financial and logistical support to unauthorized settlements in the Palestinian territories.
This includes the alleged provision of funds and critical resources such as drones, helmets, and bulletproof vests to settlers, constituting a direct violation of Dutch laws, international humanitarian laws and contributing to significant human rights abuses.
The complaint accuses both entities and their leadership of sustaining and supporting the ongoing occupation and systematic colonization efforts, directly contravening Dutch law as well as established international legal standards regarding the occupied territories.
Presented evidence suggests the operations and financial transactions orchestrated by Stichting Christenen voor Israël and ABN AMRO Bank N.V. play a pivotal role in perpetuating an environment fraught with legal and humanitarian concerns, impacting Palestinian lives and sovereignty.
The legal action seeks a comprehensive investigation and subsequent prosecution, emphasizing the need for accountability and rigorous legal oversight in international relations and human rights enforcement. This case underscores the urgent need for addressing the legal obligations of organizations and financial institutions in the context of the occupation and colonization of Palestine.
(Guardian) Tory peer pays damages after alleging University Challenge mascot was antisemitic
(iNews, UK) Secret dossier on academic’s politics poses ‘serious questions’ for Government - Michelle Donelan is forced to retract a claim an academic shared 'extremist' views on the Israel-Hamas war, with the Government paying damages on her behalf
(The Star) Palestinian Canadians sue Foreign Affairs Minister Mélanie Joly, alleging Canada's military exports to Israel are illegal
(Al-Jazeera) German lawyers sue Scholz, alleging complicity in Gaza ‘genocide’ - Lawyers representing Palestinians file criminal complaint against the chancellor and other top politicians as Germany remains committed to Israel.
posted by cendawanita at 11:53 PM on March 6 [8 favorites]
Background from TNH, Gaza in-depth: Why Israel wants to end UNRWA and what its closure would mean
‘Israel just wants UNRWA to go away, hoping that that will undermine the whole claim of Palestinians having a right to return.’posted by away for regrooving at 11:58 PM on March 6 [7 favorites]
...
Meanwhile, Palestinian refugees in the countries and territories where UNRWA operates are also specifically excluded from the mandate of the UN’s refugee agency, UNHCR, which was created one year after UNRWA.
This has made Palestinians “the only category of forced displaced without an international agency seeking or providing not just humanitarian assistance and protection, but, like UNHCR does, pursuing durable solutions”, Takkenberg said.
For the first nearly two decades of its existence, UNRWA did not operate in territories under Israeli control. That changed, however, when Israel occupied Gaza, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem during the 1967 Arab-Israeli war.
Within days of taking control of the territories, the Israeli government asked UNRWA to continue providing aid and services to refugees in the occupied territories – functions Israel would have otherwise been legally obliged to fulfil.
...
“As the occupying power, Israel remains bound to provide humanitarian aid and assistance to the protected Palestinian population throughout the occupied Palestinian territory, including the Gaza Strip,” said Ardi Imseis, a Queen’s University professor of international law and a former UNRWA and UNHCR official who is working as a counsel on a separate ICJ advisory opinion case examining the legality of Israel’s occupation of the Palestinian territories.
In the West Bank, the Palestinian Authority might step in, but that would require a surge in international funding, according to Takkenberg. In Gaza, it is entirely unclear what entity could fill the gap – especially given the exponentially high level of devastation and large need for aid after months of conflict.
The idea that dismantling UNRWA would bring an end to the right to return or the issue of Palestinian refugees is also an illusion, according to Chris Gunness, a former UNRWA spokesperson. “That is a complete and deliberate misunderstanding of refugee law and practice,” Gunness said. “It's like saying that if you get rid of Oxfam, you get rid of poor people.”
Getting it out of the way, this links to a Grayzone piece, but because there've been legs now in terms of questioning Israel's justifications for its current round of violence (and plausible genocide), I expect other journos will be following up especially this claims to have physical evidence (this is now the pattern in the last few months, however mainstream media blackout does mean the closest traction I've seen really is only up to Intercept and Democracy Now, fwiw and sometimes competing teams inside CNN, WSJ, WaPo, and Guardian). But because this is an American-located leak, it might take longer because there's stronger epistemic closure compared to when Israeli coverage and social media activity forced the issue.
Ok, the piece: Leaked Israel lobby presentation urges US officials to justify war on Gaza with ‘Hamas rape’ claims
Two prominent pro-Israel lobby groups are holding private briefings in New York City to coach elected officials and well-known figures on how to influence public opinion in favor of the Israeli military’s rampage in Gaza, The Grayzone can reveal. These PR sessions, convened by the UJA-Federation and Jewish Community Relations Council, rely on data collected by Frank Luntz, a veteran Republican pollster and pundit.
A source who was present during several meetings provided Luntz’s slides to The Grayzone. Participants were informed that the presentations and data contained in the slides were strictly confidential, the source said.
“This is NOT helpful,” Luntz stated in response to an email from The Grayzone requesting his comment on the private meetings.
The Luntz-tested presentations on the war in Gaza urge politicians to avoid trumpeting America’s supposedly shared democratic values with Israel, and focus instead on deploying “The Language of War with Hamas.” According to this framing, they must deploy incendiary language painting Hamas as a “brutal and savage…organization of hate” which has “raped women,” while insisting Israel is engaged in “a war for humanity.”
---
Another source that's seen its threads further followed up by other factcheckers and journalists is zei_squirrel. I'm linking this particular thread (threadreader) about how Israel's chief forensic pathologist and the head of Abu Kabir’s DNA laboratory may be part of made-up allegations, with citations from other articles and journalism to date including the Haaretz pieces shared previously.
Ok, so both links mentioned this March 5 report by Premila Patten, who is considered friendly to Israel (Ynet article in Hebrew). Still, as can be seen by this Channel 12 clip, even her mission report could not conclude the narrative of a systematic campaign of rape by Hamas, especially because no real cooperation was provided.
The report: Mission report - Official visit of the Office of the SRSG-SVC to Israel and the occupied West Bank - 29 January – 14 February 2024
Pp.21-22:
V. Conclusions
84. Overall, based on the totality of information gathered from multiple and independent sources at the different locations, there are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred at several locations across the Gaza periphery, including in the form of rape and gang rape, during the 7 October 2023 attacks. Credible circumstantial information, which may be indicative of some forms of sexual violence, including genital mutilation, sexualized torture, or cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment, was also gathered.
85. With regards to the hostages, the mission team found clear and convincing information that some hostages taken to Gaza have been subjected to various forms of conflict-related sexual violence and has reasonable grounds to believe that such violence may be ongoing.
86. The mission team was unable to establish the prevalence of sexual violence and concludes that the overall magnitude, scope, and specific attribution of these violations would require a fully-fledged investigation. A comprehensive investigation would enable the information base to be expanded in locations which the mission team was not able to visit and to build the required trust with survivors/victims of conflict-related sexual violence who may be reluctant to come forward at this point.
87. Regarding the occupied Palestinian Territory, while its scope did not extend to verification, the mission team received information from institutional and civil society sources as well as through direct interviews, about some forms of sexual violence against Palestinian men and women in detention settings, during house raids and at checkpoints. Though the mission team did not visit Gaza, the Office of the SRSG-SVC will continue to monitor the situation for any relevant allegations of CRSV in the context of the ongoing hostilities. The relevant UN entities present in the occupied Palestinian Territory will provide UN-verified information for reporting to the Security Council on allegations of CRSV, which will be complemented by the
information obtained by the mission team.
Coincidentally today in the Guardian: Palestinians ‘beaten and sexually assaulted’ at Israeli detention centres, UN report claims - Internal analysis by UNRWA, based on interviews with released Palestinians, describes dog attacks and the prolonged use of stress positions
And a couple days back, Bellingcat, in a piece with Younis Tirawi, who has been documenting all the bullshit from IDF: Social Media Posts Show Off Blindfolded and Bound Palestinian Detainees
This piece meanwhile developed a story from an IDF soldier post covered by @ireallyhateyou (together, they and Younis kinda provides a one-two punch in terms of just tracking socmed coverage with them coming in as the Hebrew-speaking assist): (MEE) Israeli soldier 'boasted about running over dead Palestinian man with tank'
Mondoweiss meanwhile reports the following: ‘We are the masters of the house’: Israeli channels air snuff videos featuring systematic torture of Palestinians - Israeli TV channels aired a number of reports showing the torture and humiliation of Palestinians in Israeli prisons. The videos are consumed by the Israeli public as entertainment, revealing the sadism of Israeli society.
But back to the whole consent-formation for this operations, The Intercept: Kibbutz Be’eri Rejects Story in New York Times October 7 Exposé: “They Were Not Sexually Abused” - “It’s not true,” said the kibbutz spokesperson, of one of the stories featured in the paper’s controversial article.
And randomly, from YES Magazine: Claims of Mass Rape by Hamas Unravel Upon Investigation (even they acknowledge them publishing this is random)
During a two-hour-long interview that was heated at times, Hadas Ziv, director of ethics and policy at Physicians for Human Rights Israel (PHRI), acknowledged numerous problems with the position paper she co-authored, “Sexual and Gender-Based Violence As a Weapon of War During the October 7, 2023 Hamas Attacks.”
Ziv admitted credibility problems with sources and that she did not review all available evidence. She was “unaware” numerous sources had fabricated atrocity stories about Oct. 7. Ziv said, “Yeah, that’s a problem,” about a soldier she quotes whose claim of rape was changed by the government. She quoted volunteers from Zaka, a scandal-plagued organization that collected human remains after Oct. 7, but Ziv did not realize Zaka openly talks of inventing stories. When discussing claims that women’s sexual organs were deliberately mutilated, Ziv conceded, “OK, if there’s alternative explanations you can’t say that.”
While admitting “I did not know all the stories that you speak about that discredit those witnesses,” Ziv also lashed out: “I feel like I’m a rape victim that’s being interrogated.” YES! responded, “Not every interview is a friendly interview.”
Further, the PHRI paper is riddled with errors small and large. Names are misspelled, quotes don’t match links, and an individual is misidentified. Ziv was unaware that the Israeli government alleges it has forensic evidence of rape, which it has not produced publicly. Most egregious, Ziv didn’t realize her paper counted one alleged gang rape as two separate incidents.
And today: (ToI)Shin Bet finds that Gazans working legally in Israel before Oct. 7 did not provide intel to Hamas – report
As commented by Maytal Kowalski: I heard directly from survivors of Oct 7 from the kibbutzim who were utterly crushed, traumatized, felt so betrayed, because they had been told that the Gazans they had come to trust had participated in the ultimate betrayal.
Now we learn it wasn't true.
posted by cendawanita at 12:31 AM on March 7 [7 favorites]
Ok, the piece: Leaked Israel lobby presentation urges US officials to justify war on Gaza with ‘Hamas rape’ claims
Two prominent pro-Israel lobby groups are holding private briefings in New York City to coach elected officials and well-known figures on how to influence public opinion in favor of the Israeli military’s rampage in Gaza, The Grayzone can reveal. These PR sessions, convened by the UJA-Federation and Jewish Community Relations Council, rely on data collected by Frank Luntz, a veteran Republican pollster and pundit.
A source who was present during several meetings provided Luntz’s slides to The Grayzone. Participants were informed that the presentations and data contained in the slides were strictly confidential, the source said.
“This is NOT helpful,” Luntz stated in response to an email from The Grayzone requesting his comment on the private meetings.
The Luntz-tested presentations on the war in Gaza urge politicians to avoid trumpeting America’s supposedly shared democratic values with Israel, and focus instead on deploying “The Language of War with Hamas.” According to this framing, they must deploy incendiary language painting Hamas as a “brutal and savage…organization of hate” which has “raped women,” while insisting Israel is engaged in “a war for humanity.”
---
Another source that's seen its threads further followed up by other factcheckers and journalists is zei_squirrel. I'm linking this particular thread (threadreader) about how Israel's chief forensic pathologist and the head of Abu Kabir’s DNA laboratory may be part of made-up allegations, with citations from other articles and journalism to date including the Haaretz pieces shared previously.
Ok, so both links mentioned this March 5 report by Premila Patten, who is considered friendly to Israel (Ynet article in Hebrew). Still, as can be seen by this Channel 12 clip, even her mission report could not conclude the narrative of a systematic campaign of rape by Hamas, especially because no real cooperation was provided.
The report: Mission report - Official visit of the Office of the SRSG-SVC to Israel and the occupied West Bank - 29 January – 14 February 2024
Pp.21-22:
V. Conclusions
84. Overall, based on the totality of information gathered from multiple and independent sources at the different locations, there are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred at several locations across the Gaza periphery, including in the form of rape and gang rape, during the 7 October 2023 attacks. Credible circumstantial information, which may be indicative of some forms of sexual violence, including genital mutilation, sexualized torture, or cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment, was also gathered.
85. With regards to the hostages, the mission team found clear and convincing information that some hostages taken to Gaza have been subjected to various forms of conflict-related sexual violence and has reasonable grounds to believe that such violence may be ongoing.
86. The mission team was unable to establish the prevalence of sexual violence and concludes that the overall magnitude, scope, and specific attribution of these violations would require a fully-fledged investigation. A comprehensive investigation would enable the information base to be expanded in locations which the mission team was not able to visit and to build the required trust with survivors/victims of conflict-related sexual violence who may be reluctant to come forward at this point.
87. Regarding the occupied Palestinian Territory, while its scope did not extend to verification, the mission team received information from institutional and civil society sources as well as through direct interviews, about some forms of sexual violence against Palestinian men and women in detention settings, during house raids and at checkpoints. Though the mission team did not visit Gaza, the Office of the SRSG-SVC will continue to monitor the situation for any relevant allegations of CRSV in the context of the ongoing hostilities. The relevant UN entities present in the occupied Palestinian Territory will provide UN-verified information for reporting to the Security Council on allegations of CRSV, which will be complemented by the
information obtained by the mission team.
Coincidentally today in the Guardian: Palestinians ‘beaten and sexually assaulted’ at Israeli detention centres, UN report claims - Internal analysis by UNRWA, based on interviews with released Palestinians, describes dog attacks and the prolonged use of stress positions
And a couple days back, Bellingcat, in a piece with Younis Tirawi, who has been documenting all the bullshit from IDF: Social Media Posts Show Off Blindfolded and Bound Palestinian Detainees
This piece meanwhile developed a story from an IDF soldier post covered by @ireallyhateyou (together, they and Younis kinda provides a one-two punch in terms of just tracking socmed coverage with them coming in as the Hebrew-speaking assist): (MEE) Israeli soldier 'boasted about running over dead Palestinian man with tank'
Mondoweiss meanwhile reports the following: ‘We are the masters of the house’: Israeli channels air snuff videos featuring systematic torture of Palestinians - Israeli TV channels aired a number of reports showing the torture and humiliation of Palestinians in Israeli prisons. The videos are consumed by the Israeli public as entertainment, revealing the sadism of Israeli society.
But back to the whole consent-formation for this operations, The Intercept: Kibbutz Be’eri Rejects Story in New York Times October 7 Exposé: “They Were Not Sexually Abused” - “It’s not true,” said the kibbutz spokesperson, of one of the stories featured in the paper’s controversial article.
And randomly, from YES Magazine: Claims of Mass Rape by Hamas Unravel Upon Investigation (even they acknowledge them publishing this is random)
During a two-hour-long interview that was heated at times, Hadas Ziv, director of ethics and policy at Physicians for Human Rights Israel (PHRI), acknowledged numerous problems with the position paper she co-authored, “Sexual and Gender-Based Violence As a Weapon of War During the October 7, 2023 Hamas Attacks.”
Ziv admitted credibility problems with sources and that she did not review all available evidence. She was “unaware” numerous sources had fabricated atrocity stories about Oct. 7. Ziv said, “Yeah, that’s a problem,” about a soldier she quotes whose claim of rape was changed by the government. She quoted volunteers from Zaka, a scandal-plagued organization that collected human remains after Oct. 7, but Ziv did not realize Zaka openly talks of inventing stories. When discussing claims that women’s sexual organs were deliberately mutilated, Ziv conceded, “OK, if there’s alternative explanations you can’t say that.”
While admitting “I did not know all the stories that you speak about that discredit those witnesses,” Ziv also lashed out: “I feel like I’m a rape victim that’s being interrogated.” YES! responded, “Not every interview is a friendly interview.”
Further, the PHRI paper is riddled with errors small and large. Names are misspelled, quotes don’t match links, and an individual is misidentified. Ziv was unaware that the Israeli government alleges it has forensic evidence of rape, which it has not produced publicly. Most egregious, Ziv didn’t realize her paper counted one alleged gang rape as two separate incidents.
And today: (ToI)Shin Bet finds that Gazans working legally in Israel before Oct. 7 did not provide intel to Hamas – report
As commented by Maytal Kowalski: I heard directly from survivors of Oct 7 from the kibbutzim who were utterly crushed, traumatized, felt so betrayed, because they had been told that the Gazans they had come to trust had participated in the ultimate betrayal.
Now we learn it wasn't true.
posted by cendawanita at 12:31 AM on March 7 [7 favorites]
‘We are the masters of the house’: Israeli channels air snuff videos featuring systematic torture of Palestinians - Israeli TV channels aired a number of reports showing the torture and humiliation of Palestinians in Israeli prisons. The videos are consumed by the Israeli public as entertainment, revealing the sadism of Israeli society.
The civilised, democratic, morally upstanding party in this conflict, if western governments are to be believed.
posted by Dysk at 12:44 AM on March 7 [9 favorites]
The civilised, democratic, morally upstanding party in this conflict, if western governments are to be believed.
posted by Dysk at 12:44 AM on March 7 [9 favorites]
U.S. floods arms into Israel despite mounting alarm over war’s conduct (WSJ via archive.is):
TLDR: the Biden admin is selling weapons to Israel in batches under the reporting threshold to avoid public scrutiny. 100 such sales over 150 days. The US is the enabler of this genocide. Emphasis not in the original.
TLDR: the Biden admin is selling weapons to Israel in batches under the reporting threshold to avoid public scrutiny. 100 such sales over 150 days. The US is the enabler of this genocide. Emphasis not in the original.
But in the case of the 100 other transactions, known in government-speak as Foreign Military Sales or FMS, the weapons transfers were processed without any public debate because each fell under a specific dollar amount that requires the executive branch to individually notify Congress, according to U.S. officials and lawmakers who, like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive military matter.posted by kmt at 1:44 AM on March 7 [7 favorites]
Taken together, the weapons packages amount to a massive transfer of firepower at a time when senior U.S. officials have complained that Israeli officials have fallen short on their appeals to limit civilian casualties, allow more aid into Gaza, and refrain from rhetoric calling for the permanent displacement of Palestinians.
“That’s an extraordinary number of sales over the course of a pretty short amount of time, which really strongly suggests that the Israeli campaign would not be sustainable without this level of U.S. support,” said Jeremy Konyndyk, a former senior Biden administration official and current president of Refugees International.
The Guardian report of the same news has this bit: “Whether it is arms sales to Saudi Arabia and the UAE under the Trump administration, or sales to Israel under the Biden administration, Congress - and the American public - deserve full transparency about who is buying US weapons and how many weapons we are selling them,” said Democratic congressman Joaquin Castro, who pushed unsuccessfully for an amendment in February which would require all arms sales to be reported to Congress, if the total sales to a single country exceeded a threshold over a fiscal year.
“While the amendment was not adopted, I’ll continue to push for our ability to conduct congressional oversight and for Americans to know where our arms are being exported to,” Castro said in a written statement.
AP: Biden’s closest allies are stepping up pressure on White House to do more to ease suffering in Gaza
Meanwhile: (BBC) Israel approves plans for 3,400 new homes in West Bank settlements
And: (Guardian, opinion by Devi Sridhar) I asked public health colleagues about starvation in Gaza. They say there is no precedent for what is happening
Euro-Med Monitor: New evidence confirms Israel’s full involvement in ‘Flour Massacre’ of starving Palestinian civilians - they traced the provenance of a bullet recovered from the scene. By the way there's been another attack on people gathering for aid.
On the same event, 972: Survivors of Gaza aid convoy massacre describe ‘indiscriminate’ Israeli fire
Back to the most moral army:
New Arab: Retired Israeli general says spread of disease in Gaza 'will bring victory closer'
The Conversation: The war in Gaza is wiping out Palestine’s education and knowledge systems
AP: ‘They wanted to humiliate us.’ Palestinian women detained by Israel allege abuse in Israeli custody
A meta-commentary from Semafor (kinda like reading a public ombudsman post) How the Times stumbled on a sensitive Israel story with details on mainstream journalism norms in the USA.
posted by cendawanita at 2:38 AM on March 7 [8 favorites]
“While the amendment was not adopted, I’ll continue to push for our ability to conduct congressional oversight and for Americans to know where our arms are being exported to,” Castro said in a written statement.
AP: Biden’s closest allies are stepping up pressure on White House to do more to ease suffering in Gaza
Meanwhile: (BBC) Israel approves plans for 3,400 new homes in West Bank settlements
And: (Guardian, opinion by Devi Sridhar) I asked public health colleagues about starvation in Gaza. They say there is no precedent for what is happening
Euro-Med Monitor: New evidence confirms Israel’s full involvement in ‘Flour Massacre’ of starving Palestinian civilians - they traced the provenance of a bullet recovered from the scene. By the way there's been another attack on people gathering for aid.
On the same event, 972: Survivors of Gaza aid convoy massacre describe ‘indiscriminate’ Israeli fire
Back to the most moral army:
New Arab: Retired Israeli general says spread of disease in Gaza 'will bring victory closer'
The Conversation: The war in Gaza is wiping out Palestine’s education and knowledge systems
AP: ‘They wanted to humiliate us.’ Palestinian women detained by Israel allege abuse in Israeli custody
A meta-commentary from Semafor (kinda like reading a public ombudsman post) How the Times stumbled on a sensitive Israel story with details on mainstream journalism norms in the USA.
posted by cendawanita at 2:38 AM on March 7 [8 favorites]
Looks like we're going to move into Ramadan with continuing hostilities as the ceasefire negotiations have collapsed again (Israel rejection). Just before that news broke, I saw this tweet by Gershon Baskin:
Warning!!!
If Hamas and Israel do not reach an agreement on a cease-fire and hostage deal before Ramadan, and during the month of Ramadan the fighting will intensify to reach Rafah, there is a clear and imminent danger of the entire region igniting - starting from East Jerusalem, the West Bank, Jordan and beyond to other countries. American soldiers are already paying the price of US support for Israel. The worldwide mobilization against Israel is getting stronger every day. Israel's military pressure in Gaza is not freeing hostages - it is killing them. A ceasefire now would serve Israel's interests, but Netanyahu, the most failed prime minister since the establishment of the state, is a prisoner in the hands of Ben Gavir and Smootrich and it seems also in the hands of his son and the wife. There is no common sense in the absence of an Israeli negotiating team from the ongoing negotiations in Cairo. The Hamas team has been there for the past few days and it is possible that the hardening of Hamas' positions stems from the fact that Israel is not there. A senior Egyptian official told me that when Israel is not in the negotiations, Egypt looks like Israel's lawyer, a role that Egypt does not want to fulfill, and this does not serve Israel's desire to release hostages. In conclusion, it seems to me that the Israeli government has decided to sacrifice the hostages and that is more than sad - it is tragic.
In the meantime, compare and contrast (with photos/vids):
Jeremy Loffredo: Israeli settlers have walked past the military without issue and are walking directly to the humanitarian aid trucks headed to Gaza in order to stop them
With Oren Ziv's: Now: Israeli police stop a convoy of left wing activists on their way to Kerem Shalom to bring aid to Gaza
And I'm late to share this, but to summarise this Hebrew thread by @freyisrael1 (threadreader), elisha: “So who is behind the blockade of the humanitarian aid trucks?”
Baruch ben Yoseph, a lawyer who mentored Ben Gvir in Israel, a former member of the JDL who like most others came from a working class background in the Bronx, wanted in the US for the murder of Alex Odeh. (re: this 2020 Intercept piece)
Finally, please don't click if you're not up to it, as there are screenshots:
- Israeli telegram group named "Dead Terrorists" are making fun of the flour massacre.;
- More famine related snuff images appearing in this Israeli group chat.
posted by cendawanita at 4:40 AM on March 7 [8 favorites]
Warning!!!
If Hamas and Israel do not reach an agreement on a cease-fire and hostage deal before Ramadan, and during the month of Ramadan the fighting will intensify to reach Rafah, there is a clear and imminent danger of the entire region igniting - starting from East Jerusalem, the West Bank, Jordan and beyond to other countries. American soldiers are already paying the price of US support for Israel. The worldwide mobilization against Israel is getting stronger every day. Israel's military pressure in Gaza is not freeing hostages - it is killing them. A ceasefire now would serve Israel's interests, but Netanyahu, the most failed prime minister since the establishment of the state, is a prisoner in the hands of Ben Gavir and Smootrich and it seems also in the hands of his son and the wife. There is no common sense in the absence of an Israeli negotiating team from the ongoing negotiations in Cairo. The Hamas team has been there for the past few days and it is possible that the hardening of Hamas' positions stems from the fact that Israel is not there. A senior Egyptian official told me that when Israel is not in the negotiations, Egypt looks like Israel's lawyer, a role that Egypt does not want to fulfill, and this does not serve Israel's desire to release hostages. In conclusion, it seems to me that the Israeli government has decided to sacrifice the hostages and that is more than sad - it is tragic.
In the meantime, compare and contrast (with photos/vids):
Jeremy Loffredo: Israeli settlers have walked past the military without issue and are walking directly to the humanitarian aid trucks headed to Gaza in order to stop them
With Oren Ziv's: Now: Israeli police stop a convoy of left wing activists on their way to Kerem Shalom to bring aid to Gaza
And I'm late to share this, but to summarise this Hebrew thread by @freyisrael1 (threadreader), elisha: “So who is behind the blockade of the humanitarian aid trucks?”
Baruch ben Yoseph, a lawyer who mentored Ben Gvir in Israel, a former member of the JDL who like most others came from a working class background in the Bronx, wanted in the US for the murder of Alex Odeh. (re: this 2020 Intercept piece)
Finally, please don't click if you're not up to it, as there are screenshots:
- Israeli telegram group named "Dead Terrorists" are making fun of the flour massacre.;
- More famine related snuff images appearing in this Israeli group chat.
posted by cendawanita at 4:40 AM on March 7 [8 favorites]
CNN finally reporting what is actually going on. Video of children dying from starvation in Gaza. (Content warning, obviously!)
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 6:23 AM on March 7 [8 favorites]
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 6:23 AM on March 7 [8 favorites]
Visual Evidence Shows Illegal Settler Construction in West Bank Surging
10-minute WSJ video about the 15 new roads and 5 new "outposts" that have been built in the West Bank since Oct 7 with money from the Israeli government, at least one road starting construction just 3 days after the attack, and much of the work done with "unmarked construction vehicles, often under armed guard."
The section starting at 3:35 is sharp, if you don't have time for the whole thing.
(Didn't see the usual gift link option, so maybe it's open to all, but here's the archive.org version, which may take a while to load but eventually worked for me.)
posted by mediareport at 6:30 AM on March 7 [8 favorites]
10-minute WSJ video about the 15 new roads and 5 new "outposts" that have been built in the West Bank since Oct 7 with money from the Israeli government, at least one road starting construction just 3 days after the attack, and much of the work done with "unmarked construction vehicles, often under armed guard."
The section starting at 3:35 is sharp, if you don't have time for the whole thing.
(Didn't see the usual gift link option, so maybe it's open to all, but here's the archive.org version, which may take a while to load but eventually worked for me.)
posted by mediareport at 6:30 AM on March 7 [8 favorites]
In re cendawanita's link "Euro-Med Monitor: New evidence confirms Israel’s full involvement in ‘Flour Massacre’ of starving Palestinian civilians", i've been seriously hoping for a while now that dud ordnance and shell casings would start getting recovered and smuggled out for analysis, because it should mostly or entirely give the lie to Israel's claims that Hamas is the party massacring Palestinians/sniping their own people/etc.
In some conflicts it wouldn't be as clear, but all of Israel's small arms use NATO calibers, whereas Palestine is using mainly AKs and Iranian sniper rifles, neither of which uses NATO caliber rounds. (Some other Iranian small arms do use NATO rounds, but I'm not aware that the Al-Qassam Brigades are using those, and honestly it would make very little sense, because you want to standardize ammunition across your personnel as much as possible. A rifle with no available ammunition is an extremely heavy paperweight.)
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:15 AM on March 7 [4 favorites]
In some conflicts it wouldn't be as clear, but all of Israel's small arms use NATO calibers, whereas Palestine is using mainly AKs and Iranian sniper rifles, neither of which uses NATO caliber rounds. (Some other Iranian small arms do use NATO rounds, but I'm not aware that the Al-Qassam Brigades are using those, and honestly it would make very little sense, because you want to standardize ammunition across your personnel as much as possible. A rifle with no available ammunition is an extremely heavy paperweight.)
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:15 AM on March 7 [4 favorites]
Ok I gotta go sleep but I'm assuming State of the Union is soon? Because: (Guardian) Biden to announce US will build port on Gaza shore for large-scale aid delivery
As an ex-colonial (formally anyway), wow what a life to be such a client state. I'm confused who's leading who.
posted by cendawanita at 10:31 AM on March 7 [4 favorites]
As an ex-colonial (formally anyway), wow what a life to be such a client state. I'm confused who's leading who.
posted by cendawanita at 10:31 AM on March 7 [4 favorites]
From the article:
“We are not waiting on the Israelis. This is a moment for American leadership,” a senior US official said on Thursday, reflecting growing frustration of what is seen in Washington as Israeli obstruction of road deliveries on a substantial scale.
Heck of a moment.
Anyway: Sanders: The US Has Leverage to End the Gaza Crisis Because It Funds the War (and is largely a roundup of Democrat voices so far)
posted by cendawanita at 10:46 AM on March 7 [3 favorites]
“We are not waiting on the Israelis. This is a moment for American leadership,” a senior US official said on Thursday, reflecting growing frustration of what is seen in Washington as Israeli obstruction of road deliveries on a substantial scale.
Heck of a moment.
Anyway: Sanders: The US Has Leverage to End the Gaza Crisis Because It Funds the War (and is largely a roundup of Democrat voices so far)
posted by cendawanita at 10:46 AM on March 7 [3 favorites]
The Myth of Israel’s “Moral Army” by Avner Gvaryahu of Israeli veterans’ group Breaking the Silence
posted by lalochezia at 11:30 AM on March 7 [4 favorites]
posted by lalochezia at 11:30 AM on March 7 [4 favorites]
A Menacing Silence - Why is the reality of Palestinian suffering denied in the Israeli consciousness?
by Oded Na’aman- Assistant Professor of Philosophy at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. He is a longtime member of Breaking the Silence.
posted by lalochezia at 11:34 AM on March 7 [5 favorites]
by Oded Na’aman- Assistant Professor of Philosophy at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. He is a longtime member of Breaking the Silence.
posted by lalochezia at 11:34 AM on March 7 [5 favorites]
Axios report ('Israeli minister lambasted at White House about Gaza and war strategy'); Threadreader version of his thread. I'm finding value in the schadenfreude but I don't necessarily feel it amounts to anything but feel-good tv at this moment.
This was a fascinating read! The lack of awareness in Israel (including among political leaders) about how the vast majority of the world sees this 'war' is breathtaking.
posted by lizard2590 at 1:30 PM on March 7 [6 favorites]
This was a fascinating read! The lack of awareness in Israel (including among political leaders) about how the vast majority of the world sees this 'war' is breathtaking.
posted by lizard2590 at 1:30 PM on March 7 [6 favorites]
As i said in another thread, it doesn't matter what Biden "announces" tonight, this is a completely unworkable plan and there's no way it's actually going to happen. Deploying American troops to a foreign country in an election year? lmao.
posted by adrienneleigh at 1:49 PM on March 7
posted by adrienneleigh at 1:49 PM on March 7
Feminists vs Israeli Disinformation: the New York Times' False Rape Narrative (Rebecca Watson, Piped/YouTube/Invidious, 14m17s)
posted by flabdablet at 5:07 AM on March 8 [5 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 5:07 AM on March 8 [5 favorites]
Air drops going great: (CBS) 5 people killed in Gaza as aid package parachute fails to deploy, officials and witness say
In the meantime @ireallyhateyou recorded and posted with translations a segment from Israeli tv that pretty much indicated the civilian aid blockade is with the support of the state apparatus. As they summarised on twt: Right-wing protester at Kerem Shalom explains how the blocking of aid is done in cooperation with security forces: "There's police here, there's army, and we're with them... No one here is getting arrested. The army is really with you, police is with you, they just can't say it"
posted by cendawanita at 10:55 AM on March 8 [8 favorites]
In the meantime @ireallyhateyou recorded and posted with translations a segment from Israeli tv that pretty much indicated the civilian aid blockade is with the support of the state apparatus. As they summarised on twt: Right-wing protester at Kerem Shalom explains how the blocking of aid is done in cooperation with security forces: "There's police here, there's army, and we're with them... No one here is getting arrested. The army is really with you, police is with you, they just can't say it"
posted by cendawanita at 10:55 AM on March 8 [8 favorites]
Jonathan Cook:
Biden’s pier for Gaza is a hollow gesture that will change almost nothing - The US President and the Democratic party are betting voters are dumb enough to fall for this charade. Please don’t prove them right.
Of interest for me to share, I suppose as a counterpoint to the idea that mobilization of resources should be fairly quick: 1. Though no one is mentioning it, Biden is actually violating Israel’s 17-year blockade of Gaza with his plan. Gaza doesn’t have a sea port, or an airport, because Israel, its occupier, has long banned it from having either.
Israel barred anything getting into Gaza that didn’t come through the land crossings it controls. Israel stopped international aid flotillas, often violently, from reaching Gaza to bring in medicine. The blockade also created a captive market for Israel’s own poor-quality goods, like damaged fruit and veg, and allowed Israel to skim off money at the land crossings that should have gone to the Palestinians in fees and duties.
2. It will take many weeks for the US to build this pier off-shore and get it up and running. Why the delay? Because every western capital, including the United States, has supported the blockade for the past 17 years.
(...) 4. Even after Biden buys Israel a few more weeks to further aggressively starve Palestinians in Gaza, while we wait for his temporary pier to be completed, nothing may actually change in practice. Israel will still get to carry out the same checks it currently does at the land crossings but instead in Lanarca, Cyprus, where the aid will be loaded on to ships. In other words, Israel will still be able to create the same interminable hold-ups using “security concerns” as the pretext.
(...)No, Biden doesn’t care about Palestinian suffering, or about the fact that, while he’s been busy eating ice cream, many, many tens of thousands of children have been murdered, maimed or orphaned – and the rest starved. He cares about the polls. His timetable for helping Palestinians is being strictly dictated by the schedule of the presidential election. He needs to look like Gaza’s saviour when Democrats are deciding who they are voting for.
(I also enjoyed the idea that government procurement cycle for the inevitable private contractor transition would be quick and transparent and cost-effective all at the same time)
Bisan update: It's Bisan from Gaza, and Israel is Trying to Push Us Into the Dessert
Normal behaviour from Germany: Germany uses funding to pressure climate groups on Israel-Gaza war
The Independent manages to get a couple of quotes from Patrick Leahy: Democrat warns US is violating aid conditions law by sending money to Israel - Former senator Patrick Leahy says ‘the number of civilians who are being injured or killed by US paid armaments’ means the nation is in violation of the foreign aid laws named after him
(Haaretz) OSINT Reveals Unprecedented Extent of U.S. Arms Airlift to Israel Since Oct. 7 - The Biden administration has reportedly made 100 secret arms sales to Israel since start of Gaza war. Publicly available flight data shows how it unfolded
What didn't go under the radar was the extensive total scope of the airlifts to Israel. According to publicly available flight-tracking data, at least 140 heavy transport planes have taken off from American bases around the globe – transporting equipment mainly to the Nevatim Airbase in southern Israel – since the October 7 Hamas terrorist attack, Hezbollah's offensive in the north, and the Israeli army's responses in Gaza and Lebanon. Munitions and other equipment have also arrived in Israel aboard a number of cargo ships.
More than 70 U.S. Air Force C-17s have landed in Israel since October 7, most of them in Nevatim. They arrived mainly from the Dover Airbase in the U.S., Ramstein Airbase in Germany, or Al-Udeid Airbase in Qatar – the largest American base in the Middle East where the forward headquarters of the U.S. Army Central Command are located.
Images distributed by both the Israeli and U.S. defense ministries show these planes loaded with munitions landing in Israel. Some of the C-17s that landed in Israel were used for VIP transport, including the U.S. defense secretary and state secretary, as well as other senior military officials on their trips to the Middle East, and for logistics connected to President Joe Biden's October 2023 visit to Israel.
(...) The airlift to Israel is just part of a huge airlift carried out by the U.S. since the outbreak of the war. Hundreds of military and civilian aircraft have transported huge quantities of armaments, equipment and forces throughout the region – from Greece and Cyprus through Jordan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, and lately Djibouti, where international forces are now concentrated in an attempt to halt Houthi attacks in the Red Sea.
Barak Ravid claiming another scoop: White House asks State Dept., Pentagon for Israel-bound weapons list
The big picture: The White House is seeking a full accounting of the government's weapons assistance to Israel as criticism and pressure grow across the political spectrum of U.S. support for Israel in the war in Gaza, where more than 30,000 Palestinians have been killed.
- The U.S. officials said the request is not a signal of an imminent move by the White House to slow-walk or suspend any weapons transfers to Israel and stressed the Biden administration has no plans to restrict military assistance to Israel at this time.
- A U.S. official said another reason for the request was to check it with a list Israel gave to the Biden administration that laid out the weapons systems Israel is prioritizing.
Isaac Chotiner interview with Senator Chris Van Hollen: Why America Isn’t Using Its Leverage with Israel
Arundhati Roy writes for Scroll India: Never Again [formatting note: strikethrough on the 'Never']
Happy International Women's Day btw, I leave you guys with: (New Arab) Why are Israeli soldiers obsessed with Gaza women's underwear? (congratulations if you've not been inundated by endless photos from evident perverts, likely incels, and hateful purveyors of stolen lingerie btw)
posted by cendawanita at 11:19 AM on March 8 [7 favorites]
Biden’s pier for Gaza is a hollow gesture that will change almost nothing - The US President and the Democratic party are betting voters are dumb enough to fall for this charade. Please don’t prove them right.
Of interest for me to share, I suppose as a counterpoint to the idea that mobilization of resources should be fairly quick: 1. Though no one is mentioning it, Biden is actually violating Israel’s 17-year blockade of Gaza with his plan. Gaza doesn’t have a sea port, or an airport, because Israel, its occupier, has long banned it from having either.
Israel barred anything getting into Gaza that didn’t come through the land crossings it controls. Israel stopped international aid flotillas, often violently, from reaching Gaza to bring in medicine. The blockade also created a captive market for Israel’s own poor-quality goods, like damaged fruit and veg, and allowed Israel to skim off money at the land crossings that should have gone to the Palestinians in fees and duties.
2. It will take many weeks for the US to build this pier off-shore and get it up and running. Why the delay? Because every western capital, including the United States, has supported the blockade for the past 17 years.
(...) 4. Even after Biden buys Israel a few more weeks to further aggressively starve Palestinians in Gaza, while we wait for his temporary pier to be completed, nothing may actually change in practice. Israel will still get to carry out the same checks it currently does at the land crossings but instead in Lanarca, Cyprus, where the aid will be loaded on to ships. In other words, Israel will still be able to create the same interminable hold-ups using “security concerns” as the pretext.
(...)No, Biden doesn’t care about Palestinian suffering, or about the fact that, while he’s been busy eating ice cream, many, many tens of thousands of children have been murdered, maimed or orphaned – and the rest starved. He cares about the polls. His timetable for helping Palestinians is being strictly dictated by the schedule of the presidential election. He needs to look like Gaza’s saviour when Democrats are deciding who they are voting for.
(I also enjoyed the idea that government procurement cycle for the inevitable private contractor transition would be quick and transparent and cost-effective all at the same time)
Bisan update: It's Bisan from Gaza, and Israel is Trying to Push Us Into the Dessert
Normal behaviour from Germany: Germany uses funding to pressure climate groups on Israel-Gaza war
The Independent manages to get a couple of quotes from Patrick Leahy: Democrat warns US is violating aid conditions law by sending money to Israel - Former senator Patrick Leahy says ‘the number of civilians who are being injured or killed by US paid armaments’ means the nation is in violation of the foreign aid laws named after him
(Haaretz) OSINT Reveals Unprecedented Extent of U.S. Arms Airlift to Israel Since Oct. 7 - The Biden administration has reportedly made 100 secret arms sales to Israel since start of Gaza war. Publicly available flight data shows how it unfolded
What didn't go under the radar was the extensive total scope of the airlifts to Israel. According to publicly available flight-tracking data, at least 140 heavy transport planes have taken off from American bases around the globe – transporting equipment mainly to the Nevatim Airbase in southern Israel – since the October 7 Hamas terrorist attack, Hezbollah's offensive in the north, and the Israeli army's responses in Gaza and Lebanon. Munitions and other equipment have also arrived in Israel aboard a number of cargo ships.
More than 70 U.S. Air Force C-17s have landed in Israel since October 7, most of them in Nevatim. They arrived mainly from the Dover Airbase in the U.S., Ramstein Airbase in Germany, or Al-Udeid Airbase in Qatar – the largest American base in the Middle East where the forward headquarters of the U.S. Army Central Command are located.
Images distributed by both the Israeli and U.S. defense ministries show these planes loaded with munitions landing in Israel. Some of the C-17s that landed in Israel were used for VIP transport, including the U.S. defense secretary and state secretary, as well as other senior military officials on their trips to the Middle East, and for logistics connected to President Joe Biden's October 2023 visit to Israel.
(...) The airlift to Israel is just part of a huge airlift carried out by the U.S. since the outbreak of the war. Hundreds of military and civilian aircraft have transported huge quantities of armaments, equipment and forces throughout the region – from Greece and Cyprus through Jordan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, and lately Djibouti, where international forces are now concentrated in an attempt to halt Houthi attacks in the Red Sea.
Barak Ravid claiming another scoop: White House asks State Dept., Pentagon for Israel-bound weapons list
The big picture: The White House is seeking a full accounting of the government's weapons assistance to Israel as criticism and pressure grow across the political spectrum of U.S. support for Israel in the war in Gaza, where more than 30,000 Palestinians have been killed.
- The U.S. officials said the request is not a signal of an imminent move by the White House to slow-walk or suspend any weapons transfers to Israel and stressed the Biden administration has no plans to restrict military assistance to Israel at this time.
- A U.S. official said another reason for the request was to check it with a list Israel gave to the Biden administration that laid out the weapons systems Israel is prioritizing.
Isaac Chotiner interview with Senator Chris Van Hollen: Why America Isn’t Using Its Leverage with Israel
Arundhati Roy writes for Scroll India: Never Again [formatting note: strikethrough on the 'Never']
Happy International Women's Day btw, I leave you guys with: (New Arab) Why are Israeli soldiers obsessed with Gaza women's underwear? (congratulations if you've not been inundated by endless photos from evident perverts, likely incels, and hateful purveyors of stolen lingerie btw)
posted by cendawanita at 11:19 AM on March 8 [7 favorites]
It appears that Israel tortured UN employees into false confessions in order to tie UNWRA to the Oct 7 attack.
Times of Israel: UNRWA report says Israel coerced some agency employees to falsely admit Hamas links
Times of Israel: UNRWA report says Israel coerced some agency employees to falsely admit Hamas links
The UN agency for Palestinian refugees says some employees released into Gaza from Israeli detention reported having been pressured by Israeli authorities into falsely stating that the agency has Hamas links and that staff took part in the October 7 attacks.posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 6:21 AM on March 9 [11 favorites]
...
The document says several UNRWA Palestinian staffers had been detained by the Israeli army, and added that the ill-treatment and abuse they said they had experienced included severe physical beatings, waterboarding, and threats of harm to family members.
NYT story about Yazan Kafarneh: The 10-Year-Old Boy Who Has Become the Face of Starvation in Gaza (archived)
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 2:10 PM on March 9 [3 favorites]
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 2:10 PM on March 9 [3 favorites]
Norman Finkelstein: PRAMILA PATTEN’S RAPE FANTASIES: A Critical Analysis of the UN Report on Sexual Violence during the 7 October Attack
14. The report concedes that “the information gathered by the mission team was in a large part sourced from Israeli national institutions,” while the report’s findings carry bare minimum weight as the “mission is neither intended nor mandated to be investigative in nature.” The only discernible purposes of Patten’s tawdry mission reduce to, first, acting as yet another purveyor, vehicle, conduit, and conveyance of the “evidence” Israel has been propagating since 7 October, and, second, lending the UN’s authoritative imprimatur to this “evidence.” The analysis presented here began with the puzzle, What exactly is the Patten mission? That question can now be tentatively answered. It is neither an investigative nor a quasi- investigative body. On the contrary, it is a stage production directed by the UN bureaucracy to appease Israel and its powerful backer in Washington. How and why Ms. Patten came to play the starring role in this theatrical extravaganza are of secondary importance.posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 5:29 AM on March 11 [6 favorites]
15. The Patten mission “benefitted from the full cooperation of the Government of Israel.” Yet, it couldn’t locate a single victim of sexual violence or a single piece of direct evidence, be it forensic or digital, of sexual violence on 7 October. It therefore beggars belief that rampant sexual violence occurred on that day. The allegation that Hamas systematically utilized rape as a weapon of war can be safely deposited in the same dumpster as the debunked allegation that Hamas built a mammoth command-and-control center beneath al-Shifa hospital.
16. The report describes “three cumulative waves of attacks” from Gaza on 7 October: first, “Hamas commandos”; then, sundry “paramilitary organizations … that joined the ongoing operation”; and finally, unaffiliated, random “armed and unarmed individuals.” The report further states that “it did not gather information and/or draw conclusions on attribution of alleged violations to specific armed groups.” The available evidence is entirely consistent with the postulate that, if rapes did occur on 7 October—and most likely they did—these were isolated incidents perpetrated in the main by Gaza riff-raff and hooligans who entered Israel in the third wave. It is this writer’s considered opinion—admittedly speculative in nature but nonetheless grounded in the known details of the 7 October attack, its modus operandi, and the predispositions of its perpetrators—that this is the most plausible scenario.
Aid stuff:
Sweden announced they're resuming UNRWA funding
Shot: (BBC) Gaza aid ship expected to set sail from Cyprus
Chaser: (NBC) Food aid ship held up by 'diplomacy' and waiting to sail from Cyprus to Gaza
(MEMO) Israeli police block Jewish activists from delivering aid to Gaza
I saw this NYT article about the logistical hurdles being shared mainly because this bit:
The desperation was made apparent last month when, according to Gazan health officials more than 100 Palestinians were killed after thousands of people massed around an Israeli-organized aid convoy. Witnesses described extensive shooting by Israeli forces, and doctors at Gaza hospitals said most casualties were from gunfire.
The Israeli military acknowledged firing at members of the crowd who approached them “in a threatening manner,” but said most of the victims were trampled in a crush of people trying to seize the cargo.
either indicates a quiet editorial shift compared to their direct reporting on the massacre or competing teams successfully getting their coverage out. But anyway.
CNN's Clarissa Ward visited the aid blockaders, and here are the reports: CNN speaks to protesters trying to block aid to Gaza (video) and At the edge of Gaza, Israelis try to stop aid trucks (article with more videos).
Guardian: ‘Who is going to distribute it?’: the key flaw in US’s plan to build aid port in Gaza - ‘You need drivers, trucks and a distribution system that doesn’t exist,’ says president of Refugees International aid advocacy group
MSF:
US plan for temporary pier in Gaza a "glaring distraction" - The US should insist on immediate humanitarian access using existing roads and entry points.
ABC (Australia): Fmr USAID director: Aid airdrops into Gaza 'embarrassing' for US govt (8-min interview)
(US-Israel news stuff, because it fit the discussion there, I shared in the Ezra Klein Biden thread, but I'll share this one here because of the insider gossip: (NYMag) The Biden Plan to Ditch Netanyahu - The “come to Jesus moment” is already here, according to Israeli and U.S. sources.)
Mondoweiss: Fleeing Rafah (ground reporting)
posted by cendawanita at 10:19 AM on March 11 [3 favorites]
Sweden announced they're resuming UNRWA funding
Shot: (BBC) Gaza aid ship expected to set sail from Cyprus
Chaser: (NBC) Food aid ship held up by 'diplomacy' and waiting to sail from Cyprus to Gaza
(MEMO) Israeli police block Jewish activists from delivering aid to Gaza
I saw this NYT article about the logistical hurdles being shared mainly because this bit:
The desperation was made apparent last month when, according to Gazan health officials more than 100 Palestinians were killed after thousands of people massed around an Israeli-organized aid convoy. Witnesses described extensive shooting by Israeli forces, and doctors at Gaza hospitals said most casualties were from gunfire.
The Israeli military acknowledged firing at members of the crowd who approached them “in a threatening manner,” but said most of the victims were trampled in a crush of people trying to seize the cargo.
either indicates a quiet editorial shift compared to their direct reporting on the massacre or competing teams successfully getting their coverage out. But anyway.
CNN's Clarissa Ward visited the aid blockaders, and here are the reports: CNN speaks to protesters trying to block aid to Gaza (video) and At the edge of Gaza, Israelis try to stop aid trucks (article with more videos).
Guardian: ‘Who is going to distribute it?’: the key flaw in US’s plan to build aid port in Gaza - ‘You need drivers, trucks and a distribution system that doesn’t exist,’ says president of Refugees International aid advocacy group
MSF:
US plan for temporary pier in Gaza a "glaring distraction" - The US should insist on immediate humanitarian access using existing roads and entry points.
ABC (Australia): Fmr USAID director: Aid airdrops into Gaza 'embarrassing' for US govt (8-min interview)
(US-Israel news stuff, because it fit the discussion there, I shared in the Ezra Klein Biden thread, but I'll share this one here because of the insider gossip: (NYMag) The Biden Plan to Ditch Netanyahu - The “come to Jesus moment” is already here, according to Israeli and U.S. sources.)
Mondoweiss: Fleeing Rafah (ground reporting)
posted by cendawanita at 10:19 AM on March 11 [3 favorites]
Non-English unique reporting that's worth sharing:
Spanish DW: Israel niega a palestinos rezo en Explanada de las Mezquitas
Israel denies Palestinians prayer at the Esplanade of the Mosques -
The Israeli Police prevented hundreds of young Palestinians from entering the Mosque Esplanade, in the occupied area of East Jerusalem, for their first prayer of the holy month of Ramadan, Israeli media report.
Pivot Quebec: Infiltration dans une foire immobilière qui vend des terres palestiniennes à Montréal
(Related to the spate of real estate showcases done by Keller Williams Israel in North American synagogues of confiscated Palestinian homes, and viewings were only for Jewish people)
An Israeli real estate fair took place Tuesday in a Montreal synagogue. Pivot infiltrated the event and found that luxury properties were being offered at discounted prices and that it was all legal.
A group of Israeli and American real estate companies began a North American tour this week to inform Canadians and Americans about properties for sale in Israel.
Some of these properties are in the Palestinian territory of the West Bank, in settlements considered illegal under international law, such as Neve Daniel, Ma'aleh Adumim and Efrat.
Pivot presented himself at this real estate fair, which took place Tuesday in the Spanish and Portuguese synagogue Shearith Israel, in Côte-des-Neiges in Montreal. The journalist claimed to be collecting information for her fictitious mother, of Israeli origin and living in France, who would like to buy a property in the West Bank.
(...) According to the second lawyer, the purchase of certain properties in the West Bank would be completely legal.
“It depends on where in the West Bank, but if you buy in Efrat, it’s 100% legal. You can get a mortgage in any Israeli bank,” he tells us.
Israeli settlements in the West Bank are illegal under international law, since they are located beyond the "green line", Israel's border that was established after the 1949 war. However, Israel allows and encourages certain of these settlements in territories occupied since the Six Day War in 1967.
There is a distinction to be made between certain settlements in the West Bank that are recognized by Israel, numbering around 140, and outposts, roughly equal or greater in number, depending on sources, that are not officially recognized. by the Jewish state, but who are still protected by the army.
“Not all places beyond the green line are ok, but in Efrat you can buy with complete peace of mind,” the second lawyer reassures us again.
Tagesschau: Wie Soldaten-Videos zum Problem für Israel werden (an interview with Younis Tirawi, a Palestinian journalist I've mentioned before)
For months, Israeli soldiers have been posting videos of their operations in Gaza that show how inhumanely they sometimes treat Palestinians. The army speaks of isolated cases.
(...)The Palestinian journalist Younis Tirawi has been collecting the videos for months and says he has verified them. He analyzed the social media profiles of hundreds of Israeli soldiers. Tirawi's verdict: The videos showed that it was not about a war against Hamas. "It's about a war against the idea of a Palestinian nation and our existence."
For example, an Israeli soldier filmed himself blowing up buildings north of Gaza City. He then shouted: "So that they no longer have a place to go back to."
Fwiw, while the article also quotes other sources inc IDF who are more forgiving, it chose to end on Tirawi's words.
posted by cendawanita at 10:39 AM on March 11 [8 favorites]
Spanish DW: Israel niega a palestinos rezo en Explanada de las Mezquitas
Israel denies Palestinians prayer at the Esplanade of the Mosques -
The Israeli Police prevented hundreds of young Palestinians from entering the Mosque Esplanade, in the occupied area of East Jerusalem, for their first prayer of the holy month of Ramadan, Israeli media report.
Pivot Quebec: Infiltration dans une foire immobilière qui vend des terres palestiniennes à Montréal
(Related to the spate of real estate showcases done by Keller Williams Israel in North American synagogues of confiscated Palestinian homes, and viewings were only for Jewish people)
An Israeli real estate fair took place Tuesday in a Montreal synagogue. Pivot infiltrated the event and found that luxury properties were being offered at discounted prices and that it was all legal.
A group of Israeli and American real estate companies began a North American tour this week to inform Canadians and Americans about properties for sale in Israel.
Some of these properties are in the Palestinian territory of the West Bank, in settlements considered illegal under international law, such as Neve Daniel, Ma'aleh Adumim and Efrat.
Pivot presented himself at this real estate fair, which took place Tuesday in the Spanish and Portuguese synagogue Shearith Israel, in Côte-des-Neiges in Montreal. The journalist claimed to be collecting information for her fictitious mother, of Israeli origin and living in France, who would like to buy a property in the West Bank.
(...) According to the second lawyer, the purchase of certain properties in the West Bank would be completely legal.
“It depends on where in the West Bank, but if you buy in Efrat, it’s 100% legal. You can get a mortgage in any Israeli bank,” he tells us.
Israeli settlements in the West Bank are illegal under international law, since they are located beyond the "green line", Israel's border that was established after the 1949 war. However, Israel allows and encourages certain of these settlements in territories occupied since the Six Day War in 1967.
There is a distinction to be made between certain settlements in the West Bank that are recognized by Israel, numbering around 140, and outposts, roughly equal or greater in number, depending on sources, that are not officially recognized. by the Jewish state, but who are still protected by the army.
“Not all places beyond the green line are ok, but in Efrat you can buy with complete peace of mind,” the second lawyer reassures us again.
Tagesschau: Wie Soldaten-Videos zum Problem für Israel werden (an interview with Younis Tirawi, a Palestinian journalist I've mentioned before)
For months, Israeli soldiers have been posting videos of their operations in Gaza that show how inhumanely they sometimes treat Palestinians. The army speaks of isolated cases.
(...)The Palestinian journalist Younis Tirawi has been collecting the videos for months and says he has verified them. He analyzed the social media profiles of hundreds of Israeli soldiers. Tirawi's verdict: The videos showed that it was not about a war against Hamas. "It's about a war against the idea of a Palestinian nation and our existence."
For example, an Israeli soldier filmed himself blowing up buildings north of Gaza City. He then shouted: "So that they no longer have a place to go back to."
Fwiw, while the article also quotes other sources inc IDF who are more forgiving, it chose to end on Tirawi's words.
posted by cendawanita at 10:39 AM on March 11 [8 favorites]
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I'm irrationally angry about this. Egypt is going to void the Camp David Accords over this. [Politico] This is going to ruin even the tiny amount of the Jenga structure that had survived to this point.
posted by hippybear at 2:38 PM on February 12 [25 favorites]