Piloted with precision
March 23, 2024 7:08 PM Subscribe
Parents Are Highly Involved in Their Adult Children’s Lives, and Fine With It New surveys show that today’s intensive parenting has benefits, not just risks, and most young adults seem happy with it, too.
The popular conception has been that this must be detrimental to children — with snowplow parents clearing obstacles and ending up with adult children who have failed to launch, still dependent upon them.
But two new Pew Research Center surveys — of young adults 18 to 34 and of parents of children that age — tell a more nuanced story. Most parents are in fact highly involved in their grown children’s lives, it found, texting several times a week and offering advice and financial support. Yet in many ways, their relationships seem healthy and fulfilling.
The popular conception has been that this must be detrimental to children — with snowplow parents clearing obstacles and ending up with adult children who have failed to launch, still dependent upon them.
But two new Pew Research Center surveys — of young adults 18 to 34 and of parents of children that age — tell a more nuanced story. Most parents are in fact highly involved in their grown children’s lives, it found, texting several times a week and offering advice and financial support. Yet in many ways, their relationships seem healthy and fulfilling.
This definitely isn't the relationship I had with my parents as a young adult, but it is what I see in everyone I know with young adult children. To me it looks somewhat claustrophobic, but also very nurturing and safe. I'm glad I didn't get that, but also a bit jealous at the same time.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:26 PM on March 23 [8 favorites]
posted by Dip Flash at 8:26 PM on March 23 [8 favorites]
40 years ago, I think this would be a weird thing. At 23, I married my high school sweetheart, and we left for her educational opportunity across the country. We were highly motivated to move across the country. Even if my family were in a position to be financially helpful, which they weren't, among my cohort, living at home at 23 was on the verge of being weird. Describing my wife's family as toxic would be kind. They would have provided support if we'd really needed, but it would have required we become their marionettes for the rest of our lives.
So we were on our own, which was tricky, but we were young and had each other, and have been very lucky.
In contrast to the way we grew up, we have been very close to our two kids. Both still live at home, are gainfully employed, have lives of their own, and we all still talk and occasionally hang together. They just turned out pretty cool, and while we're their parents, we also have warm and friendly relationships. It's completely different than the relationship we had with our parents. I hope to be able to help them however I can should they decide to relocate, buy a house, etc.
I wish I could have had a relationship with my parents like I have with my kids. They were a completely different generation from us, and there was no significant communication, let alone any kind of moral support. It was a great loss for all of us.
Among my extended family, multi generational households were fairly common into the early 80s, but trending away. They seem to be coming back, and I think it's kind of cool.
No GPS tracking, tho. WTF? Now that's weird.
posted by 2N2222 at 8:37 PM on March 23 [38 favorites]
So we were on our own, which was tricky, but we were young and had each other, and have been very lucky.
In contrast to the way we grew up, we have been very close to our two kids. Both still live at home, are gainfully employed, have lives of their own, and we all still talk and occasionally hang together. They just turned out pretty cool, and while we're their parents, we also have warm and friendly relationships. It's completely different than the relationship we had with our parents. I hope to be able to help them however I can should they decide to relocate, buy a house, etc.
I wish I could have had a relationship with my parents like I have with my kids. They were a completely different generation from us, and there was no significant communication, let alone any kind of moral support. It was a great loss for all of us.
Among my extended family, multi generational households were fairly common into the early 80s, but trending away. They seem to be coming back, and I think it's kind of cool.
No GPS tracking, tho. WTF? Now that's weird.
posted by 2N2222 at 8:37 PM on March 23 [38 favorites]
I wish I could have had a relationship with my parents like I have with my kids.
Most future hopeful thing that I have read in months if not longer. Thank you for sharing it.
posted by MonsieurPEB at 9:37 PM on March 23 [17 favorites]
Most future hopeful thing that I have read in months if not longer. Thank you for sharing it.
posted by MonsieurPEB at 9:37 PM on March 23 [17 favorites]
I wish I could have had a relationship with my parents like I have with my kids.
I like this sentiment, because it is basically what the article and research is about. You go, friend!
posted by Toddles at 9:49 PM on March 23 [7 favorites]
I like this sentiment, because it is basically what the article and research is about. You go, friend!
posted by Toddles at 9:49 PM on March 23 [7 favorites]
I somehow misread parents as pigeons and was like hell yes! Then I realized my mistake and was just like ok.
posted by Literaryhero at 10:06 PM on March 23 [10 favorites]
posted by Literaryhero at 10:06 PM on March 23 [10 favorites]
Ugh, my parents were proto-helicopter long before it was cool and it drove me nuts. I don't get how the kids aren't driven nuts, unless parents somehow got a lot chiller, which I doubt.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:05 PM on March 23 [4 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:05 PM on March 23 [4 favorites]
Some personal and observed anecdata as to why this is happening:
1. Parents of young children are having a hard time finding any child care, much less that which is affordable. Many grandparents are willing and able to offer trusted, flexible, virtually-free care for their grandchildren, so it's necessary to interact a few times a week, and keep things as amicable as possible.
2. Young adults have lots of social media connections, but not as many in-person relationships (especially if they're working from home, or not working at all). Their parents are a familiar, usually-welcoming source of interaction, especially in real life.
3. Some young adults are still on their parents' health insurance, and they all have to get along and work through that whole process of finding/getting/paying for healthcare.
4. The financial gap between Boomer/Gen X parents and their young adult children is huge--the parents are generally able to afford to throw financial lifelines to the kids.
posted by Kibbutz at 11:08 PM on March 23 [16 favorites]
1. Parents of young children are having a hard time finding any child care, much less that which is affordable. Many grandparents are willing and able to offer trusted, flexible, virtually-free care for their grandchildren, so it's necessary to interact a few times a week, and keep things as amicable as possible.
2. Young adults have lots of social media connections, but not as many in-person relationships (especially if they're working from home, or not working at all). Their parents are a familiar, usually-welcoming source of interaction, especially in real life.
3. Some young adults are still on their parents' health insurance, and they all have to get along and work through that whole process of finding/getting/paying for healthcare.
4. The financial gap between Boomer/Gen X parents and their young adult children is huge--the parents are generally able to afford to throw financial lifelines to the kids.
posted by Kibbutz at 11:08 PM on March 23 [16 favorites]
I'm glad I didn't get that, but also a bit jealous at the same time.
You and me both. My parents generally did a great job of being supportive without being helicopter parents (and i still despise helicopter parenting), but we definitely never had the kind of close connection described here and it doesn’t get better as we all get older. Ditto with siblings for that matter. Not sure how much of that is generational vs weird family dynamics.
I wish I could have had a relationship with my parents like I have with my kids.
No kids unfortunately I can't speak to that, but I do hope this is a thing. "Fostering a close connection" is not the same thing as "coddling into adulthood", I think it's possible to have the former while avoiding the latter.
posted by photo guy at 1:20 AM on March 24 [7 favorites]
You and me both. My parents generally did a great job of being supportive without being helicopter parents (and i still despise helicopter parenting), but we definitely never had the kind of close connection described here and it doesn’t get better as we all get older. Ditto with siblings for that matter. Not sure how much of that is generational vs weird family dynamics.
I wish I could have had a relationship with my parents like I have with my kids.
No kids unfortunately I can't speak to that, but I do hope this is a thing. "Fostering a close connection" is not the same thing as "coddling into adulthood", I think it's possible to have the former while avoiding the latter.
posted by photo guy at 1:20 AM on March 24 [7 favorites]
I would add one to Kibbutz's salient points:
5. Texting wasn't a thing when I was a young adult. Long distance phone calls were charged by the minute. My parents were loving and supportive, but we couldn't talk all that often in the '70s and '80s.
I don't think helicopter parenting has all that much to do with ongoing closeness. I am an older (Boomer) mother, and I raised my kids with a distinct emphasis on self-sufficiency that was roundly criticized by the younger parents of my kids' friends. But my long-distance Gen Z kids call, text, and send pictures several times a week. We can talk for an hour easily about nothing. I help financially when they really need it. They visit when they can. It's nice.
posted by Miss Cellania at 2:56 AM on March 24 [25 favorites]
5. Texting wasn't a thing when I was a young adult. Long distance phone calls were charged by the minute. My parents were loving and supportive, but we couldn't talk all that often in the '70s and '80s.
I don't think helicopter parenting has all that much to do with ongoing closeness. I am an older (Boomer) mother, and I raised my kids with a distinct emphasis on self-sufficiency that was roundly criticized by the younger parents of my kids' friends. But my long-distance Gen Z kids call, text, and send pictures several times a week. We can talk for an hour easily about nothing. I help financially when they really need it. They visit when they can. It's nice.
posted by Miss Cellania at 2:56 AM on March 24 [25 favorites]
Ugh, my parents were proto-helicopter long before it was cool and it drove me nuts.
Mine too, but in a 'we have to protect our investment/the family image' sort of way, there was no actual connection with or compassion for me-the-child.
I saw a social media post about difficult family dynamics recently that referred to "the hypocritical dissonance of holding a child to exceptionally high standards while simultaneously neglecting them", and it was the pithiest way I'd ever seen that particular familiar & painful setup described.
posted by terretu at 3:13 AM on March 24 [21 favorites]
Mine too, but in a 'we have to protect our investment/the family image' sort of way, there was no actual connection with or compassion for me-the-child.
I saw a social media post about difficult family dynamics recently that referred to "the hypocritical dissonance of holding a child to exceptionally high standards while simultaneously neglecting them", and it was the pithiest way I'd ever seen that particular familiar & painful setup described.
posted by terretu at 3:13 AM on March 24 [21 favorites]
4. The financial gap between Boomer/Gen X parents and their young adult children is huge--the parents are generally able to afford to throw financial lifelines to the kids.
Huge part of this is obvs. the astoundingly high cost of rent or buying real estate in all but the most depressed markets along with wages that have been relentlessly outstripped by inflation/cost-of-living for most careers.
posted by lalochezia at 4:21 AM on March 24 [11 favorites]
Yeah, the cost of communication when I moved out of town to go to uni was cost prohibitive. Long distance was expensive, so calls were infrequent and short. I did still manage to see my parents on the regular as they were only an1.5 hour drive away. With modern and cheap contact i can talk to them much more often now that I am in my 50’s, even though I live a 10 hour drive away, than I could when I was on my 20’s.
posted by fimbulvetr at 5:36 AM on March 24 [6 favorites]
posted by fimbulvetr at 5:36 AM on March 24 [6 favorites]
That said, I had to be financially self-sufficient from the day I moved out because they couldn’t afford to help support me, but I’m sure they would have helped if they could have.
posted by fimbulvetr at 5:37 AM on March 24 [3 favorites]
posted by fimbulvetr at 5:37 AM on March 24 [3 favorites]
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is how utterly hostile parents (especially fathers) used to be towards their children, minor or adult, until recently. That patriarchal attitude of "fuck you, my house my rules, you're a worm and I'm your god king," has undergone a seismic shift in a generation or less. It used to be considered normal. Now it's considered abusive. Hallelujah! I hope that we keep going in this direction, just as much as I hope that we will find balance in parenting (as opposed to letting children become little kings and queens to replace what our parents use to be).
Parents are so much nicer to children these days that I'm not surprised children trust and like parents more. Like others have said upthread, I wish I could have the relationship with my parents that I enjoy with my children! And it's been impossible only because my parents, like so many of their generation, are total assholes. They feel entitled to my deference and bowing and scraping, while doing nothing to earn it - they think it automatically accrues to them because they are elders. They will spit in my face and refuse to apologize, preferring instead to minimize and excuse their outrageous behavior by saying it's my job to "make allowances for them". The list of all the childish, petulant, cruel, and unhinged things my parents and their generation consider normal is VERY LONG, you guys.
I've come a long long way since the days of wishing I never had to down to them - but let me tell you, it's been uphill work clawing my way to some reasonably tolerable relationship with them. I did it for selfish reasons, mind you, not out of the gentle forgiving heart that beats in me or whatever (ha!) - but my parents have made it so hard to build this adult relationship which (and this is the part that blows my mind) THEY need way more than I do. They're the ones getting old. They're the ones who only has one child who might provide care and kindness in their senility, the other they drove away with their cruelty. It makes no sense that they behave in such deliberately hostile ways... But they do, because of a powerful cultural script they've internalized that places them in the place of literally God in their children's lives.
Maybe your parents aren't Indian parents so they don't think they are literally God in your life, but I know there's something analogous to this in your cultures too. Anyone who comes from the generation of taking "Head Of Household" deeply seriously makes for a hostile, entitled, tyrant of a parent.
posted by MiraK at 5:51 AM on March 24 [44 favorites]
Parents are so much nicer to children these days that I'm not surprised children trust and like parents more. Like others have said upthread, I wish I could have the relationship with my parents that I enjoy with my children! And it's been impossible only because my parents, like so many of their generation, are total assholes. They feel entitled to my deference and bowing and scraping, while doing nothing to earn it - they think it automatically accrues to them because they are elders. They will spit in my face and refuse to apologize, preferring instead to minimize and excuse their outrageous behavior by saying it's my job to "make allowances for them". The list of all the childish, petulant, cruel, and unhinged things my parents and their generation consider normal is VERY LONG, you guys.
I've come a long long way since the days of wishing I never had to down to them - but let me tell you, it's been uphill work clawing my way to some reasonably tolerable relationship with them. I did it for selfish reasons, mind you, not out of the gentle forgiving heart that beats in me or whatever (ha!) - but my parents have made it so hard to build this adult relationship which (and this is the part that blows my mind) THEY need way more than I do. They're the ones getting old. They're the ones who only has one child who might provide care and kindness in their senility, the other they drove away with their cruelty. It makes no sense that they behave in such deliberately hostile ways... But they do, because of a powerful cultural script they've internalized that places them in the place of literally God in their children's lives.
Maybe your parents aren't Indian parents so they don't think they are literally God in your life, but I know there's something analogous to this in your cultures too. Anyone who comes from the generation of taking "Head Of Household" deeply seriously makes for a hostile, entitled, tyrant of a parent.
posted by MiraK at 5:51 AM on March 24 [44 favorites]
Huge part of this is obvs. the astoundingly high cost of rent or buying real estate in all but the most depressed markets along with wages that have been relentlessly outstripped by inflation/cost-of-living for most careers.
The massive asset price inflation over the last few decades has led to the deeply weird situation where parents who are essentially (as they almost inevitably are) of the same socioeconomic class and of similar or lower lifetime earning power than their children also being in a position to make massive wealth transfers to them.
posted by atrazine at 6:07 AM on March 24 [7 favorites]
The massive asset price inflation over the last few decades has led to the deeply weird situation where parents who are essentially (as they almost inevitably are) of the same socioeconomic class and of similar or lower lifetime earning power than their children also being in a position to make massive wealth transfers to them.
posted by atrazine at 6:07 AM on March 24 [7 favorites]
"texting several times a week"
i guess there a a lot of people out there with whom i am "highly involved"
posted by AlbertCalavicci at 6:10 AM on March 24 [6 favorites]
i guess there a a lot of people out there with whom i am "highly involved"
posted by AlbertCalavicci at 6:10 AM on March 24 [6 favorites]
I am 60 years old and I would still be asking my parents for advice if I could.
posted by TedW at 6:19 AM on March 24 [19 favorites]
posted by TedW at 6:19 AM on March 24 [19 favorites]
Born in the 70's here & raised to be independent and thoughtful, I think...
Perhaps this newer generation of parents have seen all the strife and hostility that their parents went thru/imposed, in addition to watching "the way things are" taking every last thing from their grandparents (independence, money, health, vigor)
Internalizing that, and finding they don't wish to pass that possible future along either... someone must break the cycle and just be better people.
posted by djseafood at 6:21 AM on March 24 [6 favorites]
Perhaps this newer generation of parents have seen all the strife and hostility that their parents went thru/imposed, in addition to watching "the way things are" taking every last thing from their grandparents (independence, money, health, vigor)
Internalizing that, and finding they don't wish to pass that possible future along either... someone must break the cycle and just be better people.
posted by djseafood at 6:21 AM on March 24 [6 favorites]
There are many who bemoan the fact that so many young adults are still living at home, and I don’t understand why it’s such a bad thing. The underlying conditions that have precipitated this change are bad, but society isn’t going to collapse just because the kids didn’t get kicked out of the nest when they turned 18. On the contrary, families living together is a good thing!
As for the “helicopter parenting” aspect, everything in life is about balance. When we moved in here, the neighbors had a two year old daughter. They raised her very protectively, she was rarely away from the house without her parents there, and this continued through high school. She was a nice, sweet kid, but it was pretty plain to see that she lived extremely sheltered. Then she went off to college on the other end of the state. One day we were driving through that college town and stopped to grab some food to-go, and oh hey, she’s working there, which was a nice surprise. I got talking with her and in the several months since she had moved away from her parents, it was very obvious that being out of the house had been good for her. She was a completely different kid, very happy and engaged in everything around her. She continued in school for several years and got her masters degree, taking a job a thousand miles from home. Eventually work transferred her back here. Soon after she was back in town, I was talking with her in the driveway, and this sweet little sheltered girl had grown into a wonderful young woman who was happy, who had found her own path, and so much more well adjusted than before. It was so good to see. It was like to talking to a completely different person. Her parents are good people and still have a very close relationship with her. Had she not left town for several years, though, I don’t think it would have been good for her to continue living so insulated. It was good for her parents, too. I think they found themselves while she was away.
posted by azpenguin at 6:21 AM on March 24 [13 favorites]
As for the “helicopter parenting” aspect, everything in life is about balance. When we moved in here, the neighbors had a two year old daughter. They raised her very protectively, she was rarely away from the house without her parents there, and this continued through high school. She was a nice, sweet kid, but it was pretty plain to see that she lived extremely sheltered. Then she went off to college on the other end of the state. One day we were driving through that college town and stopped to grab some food to-go, and oh hey, she’s working there, which was a nice surprise. I got talking with her and in the several months since she had moved away from her parents, it was very obvious that being out of the house had been good for her. She was a completely different kid, very happy and engaged in everything around her. She continued in school for several years and got her masters degree, taking a job a thousand miles from home. Eventually work transferred her back here. Soon after she was back in town, I was talking with her in the driveway, and this sweet little sheltered girl had grown into a wonderful young woman who was happy, who had found her own path, and so much more well adjusted than before. It was so good to see. It was like to talking to a completely different person. Her parents are good people and still have a very close relationship with her. Had she not left town for several years, though, I don’t think it would have been good for her to continue living so insulated. It was good for her parents, too. I think they found themselves while she was away.
posted by azpenguin at 6:21 AM on March 24 [13 favorites]
Millennial here. In some domains my parents smothered me, didn't teach me the skills I needed to be independent, and want a level of involvement in my adult life that I'm uncomfortable with. In others, they helped me grow resilience, taught me useful skills, and expect nothing more from me than my freedom. I would say our relationship is more than just healthy and fulfilling now—it is loving and joyful. I would also say there are parts of me I hold back in order to keep it that way. It's hard to look at these things as either-or.
posted by capricorn at 7:25 AM on March 24 [14 favorites]
posted by capricorn at 7:25 AM on March 24 [14 favorites]
There are many who bemoan the fact that so many young adults are still living at home, and I don’t understand why it’s such a bad thing. The underlying conditions that have precipitated this change are bad, but society isn’t going to collapse just because the kids didn’t get kicked out of the nest when they turned 18. On the contrary, families living together is a good thing!
It's interesting (or perhaps frustrating) how in the US this is almost entirely discussed in terms like "failure to launch," with these arrangements representing failures by the kid, the parents, and society. Instead, they could be looked at as a return to past patterns of multi-generational households with the advantages (and disadvantages) that those bring, but minus a lot of the patriarchal baggage that would have made those past multi-generational households a living hell for some people.
My friends with young adult children, where the kids are either continuing to live at home or come back after a few years away, all seem pretty happy with the situation and some of them are actively looking at options like building an ADU on their property to allow this to continue in perpetuity (with the plan of first having the young adult kids move into the ADU, then reverse that later as they age), or are looking at trying to help their kids buy or rent something very close by, in order to get the same advantages but with a separation of a few blocks.
It's a pity how high housing costs are driving a lot of this, but I would speculate that even if housing prices were lower, we'd still be seeing a lot more adult kids staying at home simply because of all the other stresses and changes that have happened, and because of having much closer relationships with their parents than was the case for many people who are a bit older.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:03 AM on March 24 [15 favorites]
It's interesting (or perhaps frustrating) how in the US this is almost entirely discussed in terms like "failure to launch," with these arrangements representing failures by the kid, the parents, and society. Instead, they could be looked at as a return to past patterns of multi-generational households with the advantages (and disadvantages) that those bring, but minus a lot of the patriarchal baggage that would have made those past multi-generational households a living hell for some people.
My friends with young adult children, where the kids are either continuing to live at home or come back after a few years away, all seem pretty happy with the situation and some of them are actively looking at options like building an ADU on their property to allow this to continue in perpetuity (with the plan of first having the young adult kids move into the ADU, then reverse that later as they age), or are looking at trying to help their kids buy or rent something very close by, in order to get the same advantages but with a separation of a few blocks.
It's a pity how high housing costs are driving a lot of this, but I would speculate that even if housing prices were lower, we'd still be seeing a lot more adult kids staying at home simply because of all the other stresses and changes that have happened, and because of having much closer relationships with their parents than was the case for many people who are a bit older.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:03 AM on March 24 [15 favorites]
I'm in my 60s. My mother was often teased and criticized for her level of involvement with her 4 children, I guess she was a kind of helicopter parent before it was cool. Our relationship has been fraught at times, but she is definitely still in our lives as she declines into her 90s.
I don't have kids. I love my nieces and nephews and I hope they love me. Their mothers were definitely helicopter parents, but I would say their relationships are all pretty fraught as well, though.
posted by maggiemaggie at 8:11 AM on March 24 [2 favorites]
I don't have kids. I love my nieces and nephews and I hope they love me. Their mothers were definitely helicopter parents, but I would say their relationships are all pretty fraught as well, though.
posted by maggiemaggie at 8:11 AM on March 24 [2 favorites]
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that younger generations are waiting longer to have children; I was almost 40 before we had our first kid. That comes with its own challenges, but among the many benefits is that we have longer to get our own acts together--financially, socially, emotionally, or wherever our individual selves needed the time and effort--before we put children into the mix. Not every pre-parent manages to take advantage of that time, but I think enough do that it's helped raise the bar.
I have an acquaintance who is part of a four generation chain of 18 year-old parents, and they're a happy, tight-knit family. But I know that one of the reasons I didn't have a kid when I was younger was because I was aware enough to know I wasn't ready. Waiting until I was has made me a much better parent.
posted by Inkslinger at 8:43 AM on March 24 [11 favorites]
I have an acquaintance who is part of a four generation chain of 18 year-old parents, and they're a happy, tight-knit family. But I know that one of the reasons I didn't have a kid when I was younger was because I was aware enough to know I wasn't ready. Waiting until I was has made me a much better parent.
posted by Inkslinger at 8:43 AM on March 24 [11 favorites]
I wish I could have had a relationship with my parents like I have with my kids.
Same. My mother has never really recognized that I am my own person. Every gift giving occasion ends with me saying to my husband, "It's like she's never even MET me." And the expectation that I will be the one who takes care of them as they age has done nothing but foster resentment in me. Maybe if my father hadn't been complete shit as a dad I would have done more for him before he died. Maybe if my mother could actually name ONE THING I'm interested in, I'd be more gracious about driving her to the doctor. They had me because that's what you did and I was always, always just an extension of them.
I text with my kids daily (we share NYTimes games scores and that often leads to general chatting) and we try to have a family Zoom every couple of weeks. We haven't seen them since Christmas and that's far, far too long, we all agree. They both live in Chicago, about 300 miles from home, but we're closer than I was to my parents when we lived in the same house. We weren't helicopter parents but we were THERE for them and encouraged them to be the best versions of themselves.
posted by cooker girl at 8:48 AM on March 24 [14 favorites]
Same. My mother has never really recognized that I am my own person. Every gift giving occasion ends with me saying to my husband, "It's like she's never even MET me." And the expectation that I will be the one who takes care of them as they age has done nothing but foster resentment in me. Maybe if my father hadn't been complete shit as a dad I would have done more for him before he died. Maybe if my mother could actually name ONE THING I'm interested in, I'd be more gracious about driving her to the doctor. They had me because that's what you did and I was always, always just an extension of them.
I text with my kids daily (we share NYTimes games scores and that often leads to general chatting) and we try to have a family Zoom every couple of weeks. We haven't seen them since Christmas and that's far, far too long, we all agree. They both live in Chicago, about 300 miles from home, but we're closer than I was to my parents when we lived in the same house. We weren't helicopter parents but we were THERE for them and encouraged them to be the best versions of themselves.
posted by cooker girl at 8:48 AM on March 24 [14 favorites]
I came to the conclusion in my 20s that if a person never lived apart from their family by the end of college, they may never end up doing so. This has turned out to be true. Those people i know may have no interest or the money to do so, but also they just don't seem capable of it if they wanted. One ex was like this and I never could get him to move out from his family. Money was a huge issue, and ex did not do college, and we were 23, so I didn't really say anything about it at the time.
The crush was another one like this (new therapist wonders if I have a type). He has a severe food allergy that I suspect impeded the possibility of living in dorms and I know made any kind of travel nigh impossible in college. But as far as I know he seems to have no interest in ever moving out and he's over 30, the parents are very nice and chill and they all work together in the family business. Why leave, I guess. Meanwhile my therapist is all, "What happens if he ever wants to bring a woman home?" Me: well, apparently he has no interest in doing that...but good point.
You have to have chill parents to tolerate this, I think. Mine were never cool and chill about anything and I have a hard time doing a 24 hour visit.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:10 AM on March 24 [3 favorites]
The crush was another one like this (new therapist wonders if I have a type). He has a severe food allergy that I suspect impeded the possibility of living in dorms and I know made any kind of travel nigh impossible in college. But as far as I know he seems to have no interest in ever moving out and he's over 30, the parents are very nice and chill and they all work together in the family business. Why leave, I guess. Meanwhile my therapist is all, "What happens if he ever wants to bring a woman home?" Me: well, apparently he has no interest in doing that...but good point.
You have to have chill parents to tolerate this, I think. Mine were never cool and chill about anything and I have a hard time doing a 24 hour visit.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:10 AM on March 24 [3 favorites]
The kind of relationship that I see described here seems so far from what I’d think of as “snowplow parenting.” It feels like the framing should be “modern parenting is more reasonable and balanced than it’s made out to be, while taking advantage of communication technology to maintain closeness.”
posted by atoxyl at 9:40 AM on March 24 [11 favorites]
posted by atoxyl at 9:40 AM on March 24 [11 favorites]
It boggles my mind that "texting several times a week and offering advice and financial support" is considered highly involved amongst anglo-americans. In latine families if all you do is offer advice once in a while and help with some bills now and then, that's dangerously close to outright neglect.
Thanks for this, I read this entire article with a dawning sense of horror that explained why all my kids friends text me and call me for advice.
Snowplow parenting I think is more like my constant desire to email my kid’s professors for them.
posted by corb at 9:46 AM on March 24 [1 favorite]
Thanks for this, I read this entire article with a dawning sense of horror that explained why all my kids friends text me and call me for advice.
Snowplow parenting I think is more like my constant desire to email my kid’s professors for them.
posted by corb at 9:46 AM on March 24 [1 favorite]
I think there's also an awareness on the parent's part that old age is much less lonely if you haven't driven all your children far away. All of us siblings scattered, which was great till my mom couldn't live alone anymore. A few generations back, maybe the assumption was that you wouldn't live that long and need your kids that much.
My kid needs more support at her age than I did, for lots of reasons, and she's my only. I want her to have her own life but I'd like her to live close enough to ask for help if she needs it. I think she's actually about ready to move out if we can figure it out financially/ find a roommate setup, but there's no pressing hurry on my end.
posted by emjaybee at 9:54 AM on March 24 [4 favorites]
My kid needs more support at her age than I did, for lots of reasons, and she's my only. I want her to have her own life but I'd like her to live close enough to ask for help if she needs it. I think she's actually about ready to move out if we can figure it out financially/ find a roommate setup, but there's no pressing hurry on my end.
posted by emjaybee at 9:54 AM on March 24 [4 favorites]
Please forgive the offtopicness of this long story, but I've found it helpful in maintaining a hopefully-healthy relationship with my young-adult children:
It was the fall of 2020. A bunch of middle-aged parents of late teens/early 20-somethings were gathered at a safely-distanced outdoor party.
We were discussing where each one of the kids were "at" in their lives, and one really-great dad was asked, "Your son X, isn't he at (school)?"
The dad said, "Yes, but he went there because of the outdoor recreation opportunities nearby, and he's spending more time doing that, than he is the classroom. He's getting a bunch of Cs and Ds, and I told him if this continues, we're cutting him off financially."
My brother-in-law was there, and he is a very respected and successful child psychiatrist. He's normally a pretty low-key person, but when he heard this comment, he spoke up and said to the dad, "Hey I'm sorry, I don't know you, and I totally get where you're coming from and feel the same way, but right now we don't get to ask these kids questions like 'What's your GPA?' or 'How do you expect to pay for your living expenses on your meager earnings?'".
He said, "We only get to ask them two questions: 'Are you okay?', and 'Is there anything we can do to help you?'. Our responses to their current status in life should be more along the lines of 'You're still in school? That's AWESOME!' or 'Hey it's really great that you're looking for a job--hang in there, and things will get better!'"
"I know it drives us nuts, and our parents are rolling over in their condos in Del Boca Vista that we're 'spoiling' them, but that's all the kids can handle right now. They feel enough pressure and uncertainty internally and externally, they have a ton of headwinds blocking their progress, and they don't need more from their parents right now."
Sure--this attitude isn't appropriate for every young adult child. And we can still hold them accountable, and try to keep them moving forward. But it's a different era for them, and it requires different parenting skills.
posted by Kibbutz at 10:10 AM on March 24 [20 favorites]
It was the fall of 2020. A bunch of middle-aged parents of late teens/early 20-somethings were gathered at a safely-distanced outdoor party.
We were discussing where each one of the kids were "at" in their lives, and one really-great dad was asked, "Your son X, isn't he at (school)?"
The dad said, "Yes, but he went there because of the outdoor recreation opportunities nearby, and he's spending more time doing that, than he is the classroom. He's getting a bunch of Cs and Ds, and I told him if this continues, we're cutting him off financially."
My brother-in-law was there, and he is a very respected and successful child psychiatrist. He's normally a pretty low-key person, but when he heard this comment, he spoke up and said to the dad, "Hey I'm sorry, I don't know you, and I totally get where you're coming from and feel the same way, but right now we don't get to ask these kids questions like 'What's your GPA?' or 'How do you expect to pay for your living expenses on your meager earnings?'".
He said, "We only get to ask them two questions: 'Are you okay?', and 'Is there anything we can do to help you?'. Our responses to their current status in life should be more along the lines of 'You're still in school? That's AWESOME!' or 'Hey it's really great that you're looking for a job--hang in there, and things will get better!'"
"I know it drives us nuts, and our parents are rolling over in their condos in Del Boca Vista that we're 'spoiling' them, but that's all the kids can handle right now. They feel enough pressure and uncertainty internally and externally, they have a ton of headwinds blocking their progress, and they don't need more from their parents right now."
Sure--this attitude isn't appropriate for every young adult child. And we can still hold them accountable, and try to keep them moving forward. But it's a different era for them, and it requires different parenting skills.
posted by Kibbutz at 10:10 AM on March 24 [20 favorites]
Kibbutz, the only part of that lovely comment I take exception to is the idea that "it's different now, therefore we need to parent differently now."
Young people throughout the ages would always have benefited from parents being kind and supportive as opposed to "GTFO of my house, I'm cutting you off". It's appalling that attitude was ever considered acceptable. It's patently monstrous right on the face of it. And I fo.mean the attitude not the action itself. Like, EVEN IF you find yourself unable or unwilling to financially support the our adult child anymore, you should not be telling them so in that way. Reveling in the power and cruelty of it, rubbing their desperate situation in their face, flouncing away in righteous pleasure. Gross!!
posted by MiraK at 10:40 AM on March 24 [14 favorites]
Young people throughout the ages would always have benefited from parents being kind and supportive as opposed to "GTFO of my house, I'm cutting you off". It's appalling that attitude was ever considered acceptable. It's patently monstrous right on the face of it. And I fo.mean the attitude not the action itself. Like, EVEN IF you find yourself unable or unwilling to financially support the our adult child anymore, you should not be telling them so in that way. Reveling in the power and cruelty of it, rubbing their desperate situation in their face, flouncing away in righteous pleasure. Gross!!
posted by MiraK at 10:40 AM on March 24 [14 favorites]
I'm an elder Gen X, and my parents are lovely people...who also didn't go out of their way to foster closeness with me as I grew up. They prioritized independence above all -- which I'm sure was in reaction to the parenting they got in the WW2 years and afterward. I like them, I respect them, and I'd never ever turn to them (as a kid, teen or now) with a personal dilemma or to have an in-depth conversation about, well, anything.
I made a very different choice with my parenting, and yes it was aided by the fact that I was 35 when I got pregnant with Kid Blah. Here we are now, with him a junior in college, and the fact that he turns to me when he has a dilemma, or confides something in me, or asks my opinion on something? It's the most precious thing in my life, and I mean that sincerely. I try very, very hard to balance my desire to clutch him to my bosom 24/7 with a more realistic version of parenting, but that sure does mean I text him frequently. We share our crossword talk, and talk about media we're consuming. Some of our exchanges are 30 seconds long, but they're happening, and I find that this makes it possible for those 40-minute, intensely important conversations when he's in the mood or needs help thinking through something. If this is helicopter parenting, then I'm fine with it.
posted by BlahLaLa at 12:03 PM on March 24 [13 favorites]
I made a very different choice with my parenting, and yes it was aided by the fact that I was 35 when I got pregnant with Kid Blah. Here we are now, with him a junior in college, and the fact that he turns to me when he has a dilemma, or confides something in me, or asks my opinion on something? It's the most precious thing in my life, and I mean that sincerely. I try very, very hard to balance my desire to clutch him to my bosom 24/7 with a more realistic version of parenting, but that sure does mean I text him frequently. We share our crossword talk, and talk about media we're consuming. Some of our exchanges are 30 seconds long, but they're happening, and I find that this makes it possible for those 40-minute, intensely important conversations when he's in the mood or needs help thinking through something. If this is helicopter parenting, then I'm fine with it.
posted by BlahLaLa at 12:03 PM on March 24 [13 favorites]
if yrrr looking for a generational difference, comparing my first car accident to my nephew's is instructive.
Me (born in 1959). I went to great (and successful) effort to obscure what actually happened before I bothered to inform my dad that I'd managed to tear a stripe down the side of his car.
He (born in 1993) immediately got out his cellphone and called his mom.
This disparity can be viewed from different angles. The fact that his go-to was to confide in his mom feels good on the face of it. Yet my reflex decision to opt for a little deceit suggests the kind of guile one needs to actually get by that adult world where nothing is ever black and white.
posted by philip-random at 1:02 PM on March 24 [6 favorites]
Me (born in 1959). I went to great (and successful) effort to obscure what actually happened before I bothered to inform my dad that I'd managed to tear a stripe down the side of his car.
He (born in 1993) immediately got out his cellphone and called his mom.
This disparity can be viewed from different angles. The fact that his go-to was to confide in his mom feels good on the face of it. Yet my reflex decision to opt for a little deceit suggests the kind of guile one needs to actually get by that adult world where nothing is ever black and white.
posted by philip-random at 1:02 PM on March 24 [6 favorites]
> Yet my reflex decision to opt for a little deceit suggests the kind of guile one needs to actually get by that adult world where nothing is ever black and white.
What do you mean by that, philip? I can't think of any good or common reasons why one would need to conceal the fact of having had a car accident in the adult world.
posted by MiraK at 1:26 PM on March 24 [2 favorites]
What do you mean by that, philip? I can't think of any good or common reasons why one would need to conceal the fact of having had a car accident in the adult world.
posted by MiraK at 1:26 PM on March 24 [2 favorites]
Yeah, my dad was 50 when I was born in 1963. Mom was 30...
He and I often did not get along in my teen years. As he moved up the corporate ladder, he didn't positively parent much. Mom was not what you would call an "emotional parent" either.
I always said I would be a better, more involved parent than mine were.
And I think I did pretty good at that. I coached their soccer teams. I drove them to all the fucking swim meets. And the water polo practices and the tournaments all over the place.
And yet, Ms. Windo, who is way more helicoptery than I have ever been, talks to them every day. It is rare when they call me. I still know, however, that my kids all love me and have a better relationship with me than I did with my parents. Progress! But all of them are doing pretty great, and except during COVID none of them have moved back in. Still have a freshman in college so we will see how that goes.
posted by Windopaene at 1:34 PM on March 24 [1 favorite]
He and I often did not get along in my teen years. As he moved up the corporate ladder, he didn't positively parent much. Mom was not what you would call an "emotional parent" either.
I always said I would be a better, more involved parent than mine were.
And I think I did pretty good at that. I coached their soccer teams. I drove them to all the fucking swim meets. And the water polo practices and the tournaments all over the place.
And yet, Ms. Windo, who is way more helicoptery than I have ever been, talks to them every day. It is rare when they call me. I still know, however, that my kids all love me and have a better relationship with me than I did with my parents. Progress! But all of them are doing pretty great, and except during COVID none of them have moved back in. Still have a freshman in college so we will see how that goes.
posted by Windopaene at 1:34 PM on March 24 [1 favorite]
What do you mean by that, philip? I can't think of any good or common reasons why one would need to conceal the fact of having had a car accident in the adult world.
I didn't conceal the fact of having had a crash. I did wait a few hours before reporting it in order to alter a few details of what happened (which required buy-in from a couple of friends) so as not to not look like as much of a fool as I actually was. Which, on reflection, likely saved my dad some stress he didn't need at that point in his life.
win-win, I say.
posted by philip-random at 1:40 PM on March 24 [4 favorites]
I didn't conceal the fact of having had a crash. I did wait a few hours before reporting it in order to alter a few details of what happened (which required buy-in from a couple of friends) so as not to not look like as much of a fool as I actually was. Which, on reflection, likely saved my dad some stress he didn't need at that point in his life.
win-win, I say.
posted by philip-random at 1:40 PM on March 24 [4 favorites]
I didn't want to tell my mom, but I was spending the night at her house when I did it. She was very helpful on the insurance, and yet fried my brains for 24 hours.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:48 PM on March 24 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:48 PM on March 24 [1 favorite]
I'm Gen X, and my mom is a scold, but also loves me. I'm glad I don't live with her. I can't go to her with my problems, because she'll just browbeat me for getting into the situation in the first place. Dealing with her from far away is better for my blood pressure. It gives me a chance to weather her storm of fury, then immediately disengage. I can hang up and catch a breath and she doesn't have to see me "tolerating her," which would only piss her off more.
I'm Gen X, and my youngest child is an elder Gen Z. She's 22, we still live together, and she comes to me without hesitation for everything, because (and she has said this) "(I'm) always there for (her), no matter what." And I do mean EVERYTHING, even things that have made me blanch. But I blanch quietly, and help. Because I don't want my kid to feel like I did, and sometimes still do.
posted by headspace at 2:14 PM on March 24 [13 favorites]
I'm Gen X, and my youngest child is an elder Gen Z. She's 22, we still live together, and she comes to me without hesitation for everything, because (and she has said this) "(I'm) always there for (her), no matter what." And I do mean EVERYTHING, even things that have made me blanch. But I blanch quietly, and help. Because I don't want my kid to feel like I did, and sometimes still do.
posted by headspace at 2:14 PM on March 24 [13 favorites]
My parents advice is like “if you want a job at Facebook you have to march into Zuckerbergs office at 8 am on a Monday morning and hand him your resume in a folder”. Certainly there’s a class dimension here but i would have been much worse off if I ever listened to their advice. They’re not directly abusive but I would never talk shit on my kids the way they do.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 2:18 PM on March 24 [7 favorites]
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 2:18 PM on March 24 [7 favorites]
Reading this thread this afternoon, I was struck by the juxtaposition of current parents being criticized for caring too much and parenting in the past as described by Lloyd DeMause in The Emotional Life of Nations. (Which I read after it was linked in the Netanyahu thread last week.) The conditions even three grandfather's lifetimes ago will haunt your dreams and harrow, yes, your very soul.
posted by ob1quixote at 2:27 PM on March 24 [1 favorite]
posted by ob1quixote at 2:27 PM on March 24 [1 favorite]
With my friends (early 60's with kids in the mid to late 20's), I see that their relationships are a lot closer than we ever were with out parents. Our dads never would have told us they loved us, my friends tell that to their kids frequently and it's great to see.
But I also see the downside of helicoptering. I was with a helicopter/snowplow friend recently when his son called because his car was low on oil. Friend had to talk his son through how to find the spot on the motor to add the oil, and was on the phone as his son walked through the gas station to find the right motor oil and put it in the engine. "No! Do not put it in the radiator overflow!" His son is 25 and has his own car.
Different non-snowplow/helipcoptor friend has a son a few years older who was driving six hours round-trip on weekends to work on a ranch when he was 17. They have a great relationship, and his son is a lot more successful and independent.
We joke about how we were, "raised by wolves" as kids and young adults because we had a lot of independence but were also expected to be self-reliant and responsible for a lot of adult things at young ages. It's great to see wolf families that also maintain close and supportive emotional relationships.
posted by ITravelMontana at 2:32 PM on March 24 [1 favorite]
But I also see the downside of helicoptering. I was with a helicopter/snowplow friend recently when his son called because his car was low on oil. Friend had to talk his son through how to find the spot on the motor to add the oil, and was on the phone as his son walked through the gas station to find the right motor oil and put it in the engine. "No! Do not put it in the radiator overflow!" His son is 25 and has his own car.
Different non-snowplow/helipcoptor friend has a son a few years older who was driving six hours round-trip on weekends to work on a ranch when he was 17. They have a great relationship, and his son is a lot more successful and independent.
We joke about how we were, "raised by wolves" as kids and young adults because we had a lot of independence but were also expected to be self-reliant and responsible for a lot of adult things at young ages. It's great to see wolf families that also maintain close and supportive emotional relationships.
posted by ITravelMontana at 2:32 PM on March 24 [1 favorite]
An old friend of mine, after her son was born, said this about her parenting goals : "if our son needs significantly less therapy than we did, then we will have done well as parents." It was a laugh line, but with a nice undercurrent of truth - that they were aware of what they didn't want to do, and were being intentional about how they parented.
A few years ago, watching my niece and nephews, all in their mid-to-late teens at the time, tease my brother, it struck me how comfortable they were with him. My oldest nephew saw my face and asked what was up. I blurted "none of you are the least bit afraid of him, are you?" And he looked confused, saying, "of course not. Why would we be?"
My brother got a lot less of the violence that went on when we were kids than I did, but I am so proud of him and his wife that they broke the cycles of abuse in both family lines and raised kids that are emotionally intelligent and empathetic. Their kids got therapy instead of spankings, tutors instead of invective.
I'm sure some people called them helicopter parents.
But I look at the results and I have zero notes.
posted by Vigilant at 2:32 PM on March 24 [29 favorites]
A few years ago, watching my niece and nephews, all in their mid-to-late teens at the time, tease my brother, it struck me how comfortable they were with him. My oldest nephew saw my face and asked what was up. I blurted "none of you are the least bit afraid of him, are you?" And he looked confused, saying, "of course not. Why would we be?"
My brother got a lot less of the violence that went on when we were kids than I did, but I am so proud of him and his wife that they broke the cycles of abuse in both family lines and raised kids that are emotionally intelligent and empathetic. Their kids got therapy instead of spankings, tutors instead of invective.
I'm sure some people called them helicopter parents.
But I look at the results and I have zero notes.
posted by Vigilant at 2:32 PM on March 24 [29 favorites]
I'm 39, with parents in their mid-late 70s. My mother is constantly frustrated that I don't call them more, don't involve them more in my life. I can't help but keep being reminded that they considered independence and autonomy to be the key signifiers of success in my childhood. They punished me for doing poorly in school or otherwise disappointing them; they did not teach me how to do anything well or better. I had to figure that out on my own. My Dad is a classic "Boomer Dad," almost incapable of expressing emotion. I cannot recall a single time he simply told me he loved me, or supported any of my interests, except for times he shared them - in which case he just lectured me on Correct Practice. He's gotten better as he's gotten older; my relationship with him is actually a lot better today than it ever was in my teens. But there's a lot of hard lines and hard limits. And more than anything else, I learned in my teens and twenties how to exclude them, how to operate without them, as much as possible. I learned to control what they heard and learned. I learned to control what information I shared, because they'd make me feel punished for saying or doing the wrong thing.
I might have a child of my own. I really, really hope if I do, they'll grow up knowing that I support them and that I want to be included in their life, and that will be part of success for me.
posted by Tomorrowful at 3:51 PM on March 24 [8 favorites]
I might have a child of my own. I really, really hope if I do, they'll grow up knowing that I support them and that I want to be included in their life, and that will be part of success for me.
posted by Tomorrowful at 3:51 PM on March 24 [8 favorites]
I'm 65. My parents were generally kind and supportive. They also died around 75 years old. My in-laws started kind and supportive, but as they aged into their late 70s and beyond, grew more like MiraK's, entitled and egotistical. I've tried to be the opposite with my own adult children. Any attention I get from them is a gift to be treasured and never, ever presumed. I hope this doesn't change as I age.
I've had some unanticipated setbacks in my own life in the last two years and my biggest regret is that I don't have the capacity to help them the way I imagined I would. However, it's also the motivation for doing everything I possibly can to remedy the situation. I remember life being hard when my children were little but I think it's harder for them now, in their late 20s-early 30s, than it was for me. I hope I never age into presumption and entitlement.
posted by angiep at 7:08 PM on March 24 [4 favorites]
I've had some unanticipated setbacks in my own life in the last two years and my biggest regret is that I don't have the capacity to help them the way I imagined I would. However, it's also the motivation for doing everything I possibly can to remedy the situation. I remember life being hard when my children were little but I think it's harder for them now, in their late 20s-early 30s, than it was for me. I hope I never age into presumption and entitlement.
posted by angiep at 7:08 PM on March 24 [4 favorites]
A few years ago, watching my niece and nephews, all in their mid-to-late teens at the time, tease my brother, it struck me how comfortable they were with him. My oldest nephew saw my face and asked what was up. I blurted "none of you are the least bit afraid of him, are you?" And he looked confused, saying, "of course not. Why would we be?"
That made me tear up because I know exactly what you mean.
My kids don’t hate each other either, which my siblings and I did. They’re not afraid of us and they don’t hate each other which is two victories. I worry a lot about my parenting but at least we’ve got that.
posted by bq at 8:56 PM on March 24 [11 favorites]
That made me tear up because I know exactly what you mean.
My kids don’t hate each other either, which my siblings and I did. They’re not afraid of us and they don’t hate each other which is two victories. I worry a lot about my parenting but at least we’ve got that.
posted by bq at 8:56 PM on March 24 [11 favorites]
My big take away from these wonderful comments is that we are all trying to be better parents, better than ours were or, in my case, better than I was. What more can you ask? What more can you give? Proud and happy to be a Mefite today!
posted by dutchrick at 3:28 AM on March 25 [6 favorites]
posted by dutchrick at 3:28 AM on March 25 [6 favorites]
My lovely, talented, kind, hard working daughter seemed to hit a wall a while ago. She just fell apart. We are busting our asses just to be there for her, holding her hand, listening, touching, affirming, loving as best we can. I've learnt that she does not want words, analysis, explanations but early in the process, it seemed important to let her know that we understand that we have a role in it all and that we will help in any way we can. My letter to her is no big deal but it exemplifies what I wish I had with my parents and what I strive to be for my children.
Dearest Rickessa,
I think about you every day and wonder how you are getting on.
I have been reading a book called "The Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents." It has been helpful for me, as such a parent, to understand hints you have given me about the terribly difficult and unfair challenges you faced as a child growing up at home. Mum is reading it too.
The book talks about the strategies that children have to develop to survive in an emotionally volatile and unpredictable home life like ours when what they really need is the opposite, calmness, balance, predictability.
It talks too, of how the children of emotionally immature parents reach a point in adulthood in which their survival strategies begin to suffocate and imprison them. This can lead to a break down which is marked by stress, depression, anger, sadness, bewilderment, confusion and loss of direction.
Even so, it is seen as positive by psychiatrists because it can also be an ‘awakening.’ a way to open the adult child to their own voice, (not the one they learnt to manage their parents) and allows a new and full expression of their true self. The book also gives tips for the adult child about how to help this process.
I got you a copy in case you want to read it.
Dad xxxx
posted by dutchrick at 3:48 AM on March 25 [5 favorites]
Dearest Rickessa,
I think about you every day and wonder how you are getting on.
I have been reading a book called "The Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents." It has been helpful for me, as such a parent, to understand hints you have given me about the terribly difficult and unfair challenges you faced as a child growing up at home. Mum is reading it too.
The book talks about the strategies that children have to develop to survive in an emotionally volatile and unpredictable home life like ours when what they really need is the opposite, calmness, balance, predictability.
It talks too, of how the children of emotionally immature parents reach a point in adulthood in which their survival strategies begin to suffocate and imprison them. This can lead to a break down which is marked by stress, depression, anger, sadness, bewilderment, confusion and loss of direction.
Even so, it is seen as positive by psychiatrists because it can also be an ‘awakening.’ a way to open the adult child to their own voice, (not the one they learnt to manage their parents) and allows a new and full expression of their true self. The book also gives tips for the adult child about how to help this process.
I got you a copy in case you want to read it.
Dad xxxx
posted by dutchrick at 3:48 AM on March 25 [5 favorites]
right now we don't get to ask these kids questions like 'What's your GPA?' or 'How do you expect to pay for your living expenses on your meager earnings?'"
I really appreciate this, as a parent. I’ve been really internally struggling to stay hands off on the “what’s your GPA” question with my college age kidlets other than offering help in writing grade appeal letters to profs, and I’ve been worrying if I have been a Bad Parent for not doing/saying more. But they’re passing! And going to get degrees! And the world is on fire right now and they never expected it to be on fire like this, whereas as Gen X cusp I have expected the world to be terrible every year I have been alive.
posted by corb at 5:52 AM on March 25 [2 favorites]
I really appreciate this, as a parent. I’ve been really internally struggling to stay hands off on the “what’s your GPA” question with my college age kidlets other than offering help in writing grade appeal letters to profs, and I’ve been worrying if I have been a Bad Parent for not doing/saying more. But they’re passing! And going to get degrees! And the world is on fire right now and they never expected it to be on fire like this, whereas as Gen X cusp I have expected the world to be terrible every year I have been alive.
posted by corb at 5:52 AM on March 25 [2 favorites]
Maybe your parents aren't Indian parents so they don't think they are literally God in your life.
My parents think they deserve to be the centre of all care and attention in their children's lives. Their needs overrule everyone's, even infant grandchildren. So still authoritarian, but with an inversion of the usual parent-child roles. If I weren't so disgusted and tired of it I might find it interesting; it's clearly a warped idea of relating that's been passed down through generations. In the past, one daughter was expected to devote her life to mothering her own parents until they died of old age. I assume that's why so many of my female ancestors decided to join a convent.
posted by Stoof at 6:50 AM on March 25 [1 favorite]
My parents think they deserve to be the centre of all care and attention in their children's lives. Their needs overrule everyone's, even infant grandchildren. So still authoritarian, but with an inversion of the usual parent-child roles. If I weren't so disgusted and tired of it I might find it interesting; it's clearly a warped idea of relating that's been passed down through generations. In the past, one daughter was expected to devote her life to mothering her own parents until they died of old age. I assume that's why so many of my female ancestors decided to join a convent.
posted by Stoof at 6:50 AM on March 25 [1 favorite]
Bluntly, this is another one of the blessings birth control and abortion brought us. My paternal grandmother had seven children and essentially no choice at all in the matter (also, at least one stay in the psych ward that I know about). My mother had five and not much of one (Catholic at the time). Wolves had to do some of the raising, guys.
And if I were raising the one or maybe two kids I would choose to have if I were the kind of person who wanted kids, I admit I would still probably value highly independence and self-sufficiency in them, but, just judging by how I look after my dog, I'd be a lot more involved than my mom was. But then, with one or two kids, I'd be able to!
posted by praemunire at 10:15 AM on March 26
And if I were raising the one or maybe two kids I would choose to have if I were the kind of person who wanted kids, I admit I would still probably value highly independence and self-sufficiency in them, but, just judging by how I look after my dog, I'd be a lot more involved than my mom was. But then, with one or two kids, I'd be able to!
posted by praemunire at 10:15 AM on March 26
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posted by oddman at 8:25 PM on March 23 [80 favorites]