October 3, 2002

9:59 AM

if you're in California you're undoubtedly aware of the bitter intrastate rivalry. if you're not here, now you can get caught up: Slowcal vs. NOcal
posted by donkeysuck (30 comments total)

Slowcal? Is that what they call SoCal up there in San Francisco?

Hmmm... thems are fightin words.
posted by 4easypayments at 10:08 AM on October 3, 2002

I think this "bitter rivalry" is pretty one-sided. I've never really met anyone from LA who gives a shit -- most people here like SF.

Actually, I think much of the "rivalry" stems from Midwesterners who move to SF and instantly adopt a "cooler-than-thou" attitude. Kind of like the morons who move to NYC and think they have to adopt a "tough guy" attitude. In both places, the "natives" are, generally speaking, lovely people who don't get involved in petty territorialism. Whenever I meet somebody from SF who says something stupid like "You're from LA? Oh, I won't hold it against you," further conversation inevitably proves that they moved from Nebraska 6 months ago.

Damn, that's a lot of "quotes".
posted by dvdgee at 10:16 AM on October 3, 2002

I'm a native San Diegan and I hate LA--what does that mean? Also: I worry about idiots from Arizona much more than anyone from NoCal.
posted by LionIndex at 10:26 AM on October 3, 2002

I saw Sandow Birk's Smog and Thunder show in Laguna Beach about 3 years ago. Really well-executed concept and tremendously funny. I've got the CD as well.

As both an Ex Lost Angeleno and Bay Aryan, I can only say that both geographies are usually far too busy dissing the rest of the country to bother much with each other, although I have to agree with dvdgee that most folks I know in So-Cal don't have any problem at all with the Bay Area, it's the SF transplants who have the inferiority complex.
posted by MrBaliHai at 11:06 AM on October 3, 2002

Traffic sucks in both areas.

It's a draw.
posted by Spiny Delicacy at 11:10 AM on October 3, 2002

i think i might have been projecting a little of the classic SF Giants/LA Dodgers rivalry. but it seems the spirit of that clash is on the wane too.
posted by donkeysuck at 11:20 AM on October 3, 2002

I was born in Pasadena, and I grew up in Davis. The biggest battle I saw while I lived in California was over water. The South wants the Northern resources, and the North wanted to keep them for environmental reasons. The idea of diverting water from the Bay Area delta was very contentious when I was there. There was even a State Assemblyman who considered himself a representative of the "51'st State" which he had painted on his office door. Now that I live in Colorado I see that the rest of the country considers California a whole different world. In Colorado Californians are hated because they are moving in droves here. Of course, I just tell people that those are Southern Californians, us Northerners are normal people.
posted by Eekacat at 11:21 AM on October 3, 2002

I'm from the Bay Area and now live in SoCal. I agree that the rivalry's pretty one sided. LA doesn't seem to give much of a ratfart about it.

That said, having lived in both places, I far prefer the Bay Area, both for the weather and the prevailing attitudes of the populace. Then again I live in Orange County, not LA proper.
posted by Kafkaesque at 11:23 AM on October 3, 2002

"...having lived in both places, I far prefer the Bay Area, both for the weather and the prevailing attitudes of the populace."

That's the root of the one-sided rivalry. San Franciscans are typically easily irked by the "LA attitude" for some reason, and there have been lots of people importing that attitude into the Bay Area over time.

Of course, I'm probably not qualified to comment on this since I was actually born and raised in San Francisco rather than moving here six months ago from some flat, square-shaped Corn Country flyover state.
posted by majick at 11:35 AM on October 3, 2002

Hi
Im new and I live in Los Angeles.

I must say, most of us down here dont have a problem with northern cali. Most people dont like us because, in my travels in and around california I have found, Angelinos are more self-assured, and of course more attractive than the average American. Perhaps you should refrain from being jealous and try to make a friend. You might like us.* Take a look at how much it rocks down here.
Maybe because its so damn cold in Northern cali you guys have such funky attitudes.
posted by shamelesselitist at 11:38 AM on October 3, 2002

I agree with what everyone else is saying. Another interesting factor seems to be that post-dot-com-bust, there are thousands of New Angelenos arriving from... SF.

In general people from LA don't have a problem with any other place, this place is too a-specific to really form an identity in lots of ways. But I do admit to hating the Giants.
posted by cell divide at 11:44 AM on October 3, 2002

Didn't California north of SF, and the Southern edge of Oregon attempt to secede around the middle of last century?

Anyways, I'm sure those SF hipsters are just jealous of LA's ample parking...;)
posted by inpHilltr8r at 11:44 AM on October 3, 2002

majick: I think you just beautifully illustrated my comment about how Californians are too preoccupied with pissing on the rest of the US, in particular "Flyover Land", to care about dissing each other.

Must be something in the water.
posted by MrBaliHai at 11:52 AM on October 3, 2002

I see LA not giving a shit about SF's opinion and raise with LA also not giving much of a shit about the perceived rivalry we seem to have with many New Yorkers I talk to.
posted by eyeballkid at 12:52 PM on October 3, 2002

I'm a native angeleno and lived in the bay for 5 years in college. I think you guys have it right about angelenos not being aware of the rivalry that Nocal has going on.

A sometimes overheard conversation-

Nocal'er: "you guys are sooo unsophisticated. we have the opera. and also fog. and um, ...protesters, and stuff you guys don't even know about. Youre just driving your car and you're all wheres my cell phone, where'd i put my script?"

Socal'er: "you say something, Amy?"
posted by shoos at 1:21 PM on October 3, 2002

having lived in both places, and now living back where i belong, LA, i have always appreciated the energy of LA more than the scenic beauty of SF.

i love it that people in SF hate it when you call it SF.

i love it that people in San Fran hate it when you call it San Fran.

i love it that people in Frisco want to call their city The City, and hate it when you call it Frisco.

but i think it says a lot that people in LA dont give a shit what you call their town.

all we want is for people to leave.

and for the hippies in Frisco to keep sending us their water.
posted by tsarfan at 1:44 PM on October 3, 2002

"I think you just beautifully illustrated my comment..."

Thank you! That's exactly as I had intended: please note the over-the-top and repetitively derisive coastalism in the statement. I hope all you Betty-Sues and Jimmys out there in buffalo-huntin' Geometric Amberwavesofgrainland didn't take personal offense.

I don't need a little ASCII smiley here, do I?

As to the LA/SF rivalry, if that's what it could be called, there isn't much to it. San Franciscans, taken as a group, are bitchy and vocal anyhow and a disdain for the percieved attitude of folks from Inferior California gives us target for the xenophobia that would otherwise prevent us from being so warm and accepting of all sorts of other freaky people who live here. Combine that with a San Franciscan's muddled reaction of superiority, fear and horror at the sight of the alien concept of "sprawl" and it's just more tempest for your teapot.

If "coastalism" isn't a proper word, it ought to be.
posted by majick at 1:56 PM on October 3, 2002

word.

plus we rule: see law #4 "too cool for school".
posted by fishfucker at 2:07 PM on October 3, 2002

Of course, I'm probably not qualified to comment on this since I was actually born and raised in San Francisco rather than moving here six months ago from some flat, square-shaped Corn Country flyover state.

Hey, I moved moved to the Bay Area eighteen months ago from a flat, sqaure-shaped Corn Country flyover state. Does that mean I'm qualified to comment? OK, good.

I think the reason we former flyover state folks are partial to San Francisco rather than Los Angeles is because we envision LA as this giant, sprawling expanse of concrete that's infested with incredibly gorgeous (and maybe a little conceited and unfriendly) human beings. Also, the traffic is horrendous. That's just my experience, anyhoo.
posted by DakotaPaul at 2:16 PM on October 3, 2002

having lived in both places, and now living back where i belong, LA, i have always appreciated the energy of LA more than the scenic beauty of SF.

Let me guess, you must be one of those "Marina" people. If there's one thing San Franciscans hate more than LA, it's people who live in the Marina neighborhood. Buncha faux-tanned "the world is my fraternity/sorority party" LA wannabes

i love it that people in SF hate it when you call it SF.

I'm a native San Franciscan. I really don't care what you call it.


i love it that people in San Fran hate it when you call it San Fran.

Again, don't care


i love it that people in Frisco want to call their city The City, and hate it when you call it Frisco.

Again don't care. Hate those smug, pretentious people that call it "The City." Hate tourists, too. Really, really, hate those dot.com carpet-bagging a-holes who have yet to pick up their bags and run home with their tails between their legs. I like the "P.C. to a ridiculous extreme" folks, though. It's very entertaining to piss them off.
but i think it says a lot that people in LA dont give a shit what you call their town.

all we want is for people to leave.

Tell you what. Let's have a truce and join forces to expel the surgery-enhanced, crystal-gazing, "I am the center of the universe, you'll never be more enlightened and politically aware than me" blow-ins who keep jacking up home prices and clogging the freeways.

and for the hippies in Frisco to keep sending us their water

Well, as long as you come up with a couple more lame-assed TV shows that will shoot on location up here, we'll call it even.
posted by echolalia67 at 2:38 PM on October 3, 2002

Yes, echolalia67, for someone who doesnt care you are awfully defensive...
posted by shamelesselitist at 2:46 PM on October 3, 2002

Yes, echolalia67, for someone who doesnt care you are awfully defensive...

No, just perpetually surly and misanthropic...
posted by echolalia67 at 3:27 PM on October 3, 2002

Didn't California north of SF, and the Southern edge of Oregon attempt to secede around the middle of last century?

I don't know about any serious attempt at secession, but the area to which you refer is unofficially known as the state of Jefferson. It even has its own chamber of commerce, although I don't think anybody takes it very seriously.

Also, I'm about to move from Southern Oregon to Ventura, Calif. (OK, Oxnard, but Ventura sounds so much better.) Any geographical rivalries I ought to know about? With Santa Barbara, maybe?
posted by diddlegnome at 4:34 PM on October 3, 2002

the state of Jefferson

Bingo! Looks like any serious thought of secession was pre-empted by Pearl Harbour.
posted by inpHilltr8r at 4:44 PM on October 3, 2002

Look at the US map. Lots of people on either coast. The east coast is divided into a plethora of states, the west coast has only three. Also, most people on the west coast are concentrated in the southernmost of these three.

Frankly, I'd be worried if people were the same all over that state.
posted by Triplanetary at 6:26 PM on October 3, 2002

~Sniff~ Y'all are making me homesick.

OK, Oxnard, but Ventura sounds so much better

Ha! Growing up in Long Beach, Ventura always seemed like the armpit of SoCal to me.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:54 PM on October 3, 2002

The most common manifestation of the one-sided rivalry I have witnessed in San Francisco occur at concerts or other public performances. When the person on stage mentions LA like "I played in LA last night" a good portion of the crowd will hiss. I really couldn't believe it the first time I witnessed this.

Now, I don't want to spread the rumor that there are throngs of people in SF hissing all the time but apparently there are enough of them to make themselves known at several concerts I've attended.

Anyone else gonna back me up on this or do I just go to really weird shows?
posted by stoic at 7:19 PM on October 3, 2002

North, south, whatever. You can fight amongst yourselves all you want, as long as you stay in California.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 8:41 PM on October 3, 2002

"Actually, I think much of the "rivalry" stems from midwesterners who move to SF and instantly adopt a "cooler-than-thou" attitude."

Yeah, Ev.

Really, though... I've lived in Northern California all my life, and I can honestly say that Southern Californians can be very annoying people. Los Angeles is a cesspit, Orange County breeds rightwing twits, and, yes... you rape our land, drain our lakes, and take all our water. You talk and behave in ways that make people from Arkansas think you were crude and unsophisticated, and yet you do so with an arrogance and elitism that makes everyone wonder why they would want to be a part of your clique anyway.

Frankly, one would think that vacuousness was a profession in Southern California. If we could, we would happily be rid of you all.

But there are always a few exceptions to the rule, I'm sure...
posted by insomnia_lj at 9:16 PM on October 3, 2002

Ventura always seemed like the armpit of SoCal to me.

It is. And so is Santa Barbara. And Ojai.

Actually, none of those places exist. When you awake, you will forget there is any other place in California other than Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Barstow.

Furthermore, if someone says they're a land developer, you will shoot them....
posted by namespan at 12:07 AM on October 4, 2002